Alien Mummies Found In Peru (DNA Test REVEALED!) | Exclusive Documentary

In this episode of American Alchemy, Jesse Michels travels deep into Peru to investigate the infamous Nazca Mummies: three-fingered, three-toed beings that defy mainstream explanation. Backed by CT scans, genetic analysis, forensic experts, and firsthand access to the leading figures in this case, Jesse explores whether these beings are ancient humans, hybrid species, or something not of this Earth. From rare metal implants fused to bone to claims of pregnant tridactyl beings, secret cave systems, and high-stakes political battles in Peru and Mexico, this is the most in-depth investigation yet. Along the way, Jesse meets the scientists, journalists, and whistleblowers who are risking everything to expose what may be the biggest story in human history. Watch the evidence. Question everything. Decide for yourself. | TRIDACTYLS RESEARCH | Website ➤ https://tridactyls.org/ X ➤ https://x.com/tridactyls | MICHAEL MAZZOLA | Book ➤ https://a.co/d/dM8CKha | JAMIE MAUSSAN | X ➤ https://x.com/jaimemaussan1 | PAVEL MEDA | Podcast ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@psicoactivopodcast X ➤ https://x.com/pavelibarrameda | GONZALO CHAVEZ | X ➤ https://x.com/gchavez101 | DAVID RUIZ | IG ➤ https://www.instagram.com/dr.davidruizvela | JOIS MANTILLA | IG ➤ https://www.instagram.com/joismantilla | THIERRY JAMIN & INKARRI INSTITUTE | https://instituto-inkarri.com/en/the-members/ | JOHN MCDOWELL | Credentials ➤ https://www.aafs.org/article/dr-john-mcdowell-named-2024-rbh-gradwohl-laureate | JAMES CARUSO | Credentials ➤ https://learning.aatb.org/speakers/5453?refer_id=17642 | ALAINA HARDIE | Credentials ➤ https://alainahardie.com/ | RICARDO RANGEL | Credentials ➤ https://www.linkedin.com/in/ricardo-rangel | ALAN IZARRARAS | X ➤ https://x.com/TeoriaNeutral | DAVID VELASCO | IG ➤ https://www.instagram.com/davidvelascof/ | AMMAR KANDIL | YouTube ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@YesTheory | LUKE CAVERNS | https://www.youtube.com/@UCFestibN7lYXvEj_BMEh29w | WILL BROWN | https://www.instagram.com/incredhistory/ | Sponsors | LMNT: Get your free LMNT Sample Pack with any purchase at DrinkLMNT.com/alchemy. Also, try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. Ways2Well: Use code “Jesse” to get 10% off your bloodwork today. https://ways2well.com/ #NazcaMummies #ET #Alien #Disclosure #Investigation Chapters 00:00 – Back from Peru: First encounter with the Nazca mummies 02:59 – Government resistance and hidden technology 04:40 – Ancient Nazca culture & mysterious geoglyphs 08:04 – Skull elongation rituals & origins 09:18 – Discovery of over 200 tridactyl bodies 12:09 – CT scans show no evidence of fakery 14:49 – Forensic experts weigh in on authenticity 17:57 – Fake tourist figurines vs. real mummies 19:23 – Montserrat’s fetus discovery 22:17 – Genetic mutations linked to tridactyly 25:56 – Meeting Jaime Maussan 29:41 – Peruvian government pushback 33:20 – Rumors of hidden tunnel systems 36:04 – Legends of subterranean civilizations 38:39 – Possible genetic engineering & rare metal implants 42:09 – Links to UFO whistleblower testimony 45:01 – Provenance issues & black market trade 47:47 – Alpaca protein findings & DNA anomalies 50:08 – Hybridization theories & cross-continental contact 52:53 – Debunkers, bad faith actors & government obstruction 55:15 – Adaptive traits & which beings are likely real 56:25 – Jesse’s personal take on M-types vs J-types 58:56 – Russian “snow alien” connections 01:04:37 – The limits of disclosure 01:06:33 – Theories: subterranean species, hybrids, or greys 01:08:46 – New terrestrial species possibility 01:10:45 – Coexistence with humans over centuries 01:11:16 – The stigma of “alien mummies” & call for open-minded experts 01:14:19 – Testing plans with Colossal Biosciences 01:16:54 – Closing thoughts: hoax or new species? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones. Like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then, sometimes you make great ones. Like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.

• 0:30Jesse Michels?

  I just got back from Peru, where I saw one of the craziest things I've ever seen in my life. What am I referring to? I just might have seen a dead alien. Or an alien-human hybrid. Or an entirely new branch of hominid. Or an ancient human mutilated in a bizarre way to imitate what looks like a gray alien. I'm of course talking about these ancient Peruvian tridactyl, three-fingered and three-toed mummies. Alien mummies. Alien corpses. Mummified alien bodies.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  Is this real? Mummified aliens. Of Nazca, Peru.

• 1:06Jesse Michels?

  What the f is that? Oh my god. I can't wait for you to see these things because they're absolutely insane. And the facts around them and the region they were found in are just as trippy.

• 1:20Jesse Michels?

  But you're probably already thinking, Jesse, these were already proven to be a complete hoax. Why are you platforming this ridiculous topic? To you, I urge you to earnestly contend with these mind-bending facts. Top forensic experts in Peru, Mexico, and the United States have all investigated these bodies. After thorough investigation, they all think that these beings were probably once alive. They even looked for deliberate mutilation of the fingers and toes, which they found no evidence of.

• 1:51Speaker 03

  There are data to show that some of these bodies can be interpreted to be perhaps living organisms.

• 1:58Speaker 04

  It's not that they're cut off one finger or the other finger.

• 2:02Speaker 05

  The bodies are real.

• 2:03Jesse Michels?

  You don't think they were constructed at all?

• 2:05Speaker 05

  No, it would be very difficult.

• 2:06Speaker 06

  You need to be the best surgeon in the world to do that in replicate.

• 2:12Jesse Michels?

  Catastrophic disclosure is happening in Latin America.

• 2:17Jesse Michels?

  Thanks to our amazing friend, Michael Mazzola, who's coming out with an epic documentary on the mummies later this summer. That documentary is gonna be called "This Is Not a Hoax." And please preorder his book Catastrophic Disclosure, which I am linking in the description. We got a front row seat to this entire thing. We were able to go to Peru and see three of the most interesting tridactyl beings: Montserrat, Sebastian, and Santiago. One of my best friends and fellow UFO freak, Amar Can Deal, from the massive and very inspirational YouTube channel Yes Theory, decided to join me on this trip.

• 2:53Speaker 07

  There's a mutation in one of those genes that could cause changes in digit development.

• 2:58Speaker 08

  It has a fetus inside the body.

• 3:00Jesse Michels?

  Oh my god.

• 3:02Speaker 06

  And the hand and the feet of these creatures are also tridactyl.

• 3:08Speaker 09

  Never in the eight years I've been researching have I mentioned or said the word extraterrestrial. Never. We are talking about humanoid species.

• 3:20Speaker 10

  Just from an anthropology perspective, that should be the most fascinating thing.

• 3:24Speaker 04

  Graphic evidence of tridactyly exists all over planet Earth.

• 3:29Speaker 09

  Everything came from a single place.

• 3:32Speaker 11

  This name comes from the word in the Nazca language: laboratory, where cloning and hybridization were done.

• 3:42Speaker 04

  These bodies connect, they connect with technology. But if I want to use the technology for reverse engineering, then I prefer to hide the bodies and use it for war, right?

• 3:54Jesse Michels?

  We have caught the Peruvian government and Ministry of Culture in multiple instances of bad faith acting around this case. For some reason, they don't want this case to see the light of day.

• 4:06Speaker 05

  I put a lawsuit against them for $300 million.

• 4:10Speaker 12

  I repeat, that one is fake.

• 4:13Speaker 06

  I'm doing something real and important, and I'm not a liar.

• 4:20Jesse Michels?

  And if you watch this entire episode and wait until the end, you'll see how we're using state-of-the-art ancient DNA analysis techniques to definitively tell you the beings that we're looking at. Maybe we can solve this mystery once and for all.

• 4:42Speaker 13

  Different parts of the rain have different activities.

• 4:45Speaker 06

  But you know that, don't you?

• 4:49Speaker 03

  You've been here for a long time.

• 4:51Speaker 06

  Maybe you should interview me.

• 5:10Jesse Michels?

  Before the Incans, ancient Peru was home to other, more mysterious cultures. The Paracas until 100 B.C. And the Nazca people from 100 to 800 C.E.

• 5:23Jesse Michels?

  The Nazca region in southern Peru is named after these Nazca people because it's where they primarily lived. It's currently over a thousand square miles and contains only around 80,000 people. Nazca culture historically has been known for a few different things. Unique religious practices, often involving ritual offerings, trophy heads, and shamanic rites. Polychrome pottery with highly stylized mythological motifs. And of course, mythological cave art.

• 5:56Speaker 14

  One of the most prominent archaeological sites is a petroglyph of what can be interpreted as a tridactyl.

• 6:07Jesse Michels?

  Three-fingered and toed beings are everywhere. Just look at this Nazca cave art and these woven fabrics.

• 6:23Jesse Michels?

  Then of course, you have these massive geoglyphs known as the Nazca Lines. Large-scale drawings spanning up to 30 miles long, etched directly into the desert floor.

• 6:34Speaker 15

  When you go to Nazca or when you see these drawings from the ground, they are not so hard to be made. The only thing that will be controversial is for whom they made these drawings. Okay, because the only thing for sure is that these drawings were made to be seen from the sky.

• 6:58Jesse Michels?

  They only make sense 150 to 500 meters in the air, which is far higher than any of the closest vantage points on the ground. So unless you have some aerial flying object, the line configurations and the figures they depict are literally incomprehensible to you.

• 7:15Speaker 16

  Anybody who says that this can be appreciated in its full form, the way we're standing right now, they're out to lunch. To see the finished product is only from up there.

• 7:27Jesse Michels?

  Eric Von Daniken, author of "Chariots of the Gods", thought that they were tributes to ancient alien astronauts, an extraterrestrial group that seeded human civilization. I have no idea if Daniken is right, and I don't really have any hard evidence to believe he is. But you have to admit, one of these Nazca lines looks kind of like an astronaut.

• 7:52Jesse Michels?

  And another, in Chile, depicts a being with three fingers.

• 7:58Jesse Michels?

  Nonetheless, the question remains: Why would humans build megalithic structures up to 30 miles long that only make sense a few hundred meters in the air, higher than the highest local peak? Why are there no excavation roads leading up to the main carvings, which presumably would have been necessary given all of the displaced earth, even if they were using modern civil engineering techniques? And then finally, why are there frequent UFO sightings in this area?

• 8:27Speaker 17

  Nuestras naves normales caminan, pero estos llegan y quiebran en otro ángulo. Que eso no hacen ninguna nave que nosotros conocemos, ¿no? Subir, bajar así, o girar, o en una dirección, luego otra dirección. Nuestras naves no hacen eso.

• 8:43Jesse Michels?

  The final thing that the Nazca and Paracas people practiced were cranial deformation, or skull elongation rituals. Cranial deformation is a deliberate reshaping of the skull using wooden boards, cloth bindings, or headframes, often done to infants, resulting in permanently elongated conical or flattened skulls. These rituals conferred status onto the recipients of the elongation. It often represented an initiation into a priestly class. It denoted nobility. And in many cases, it also seemed to be an attempt to imitate the gods. Well, and also across cultures, how they have cranial deformation techniques to mimic the quote unquote gods that are present.

• 9:27Speaker 14

  I mean, Ehnahtun, who was the first like king to call for monotheism in Egypt, he had, he had a weird.

• 9:35Jesse Michels?

  The sun god.

• 9:35Speaker 14

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:37Jesse Michels?

  And where does the skull elongation come from? We don't really know. We don't know why it arrived right then. So it's like this little period of time. That's really tricky. Where the, where the skull elongation shows up. Why does it show up?

• 9:56Jesse Michels?

  Okay, so that's the backdrop in which in 2015, a gravedigger named Leandro happened upon a cave with these tridactyl, three-fingered, three-toed, very gray alien-looking mummies.

• 10:10Speaker 18

  I was walking alongside and tripped on the, on the wall and then it fell apart and I could see this cave full of diatoms.

• 10:28Speaker 18

  I started to dig, to dig and dig, and big clumps began to emerge that when they melted revealed that they were heads and parts of, of the bodies.

• 10:40Jesse Michels?

  The cave contained over 200 body parts. Isolated heads, limbs, and appendages, and in many cases, entire intact bodies. All of the bodies and parts were covered in diatomaceous earth, a desiccant that dried them out and preserved them. And technically, they aren't actually mummies. Many of them still have their organs fully intact inside the bodies. The bodies have a range of carbon dating from 700 years ago to 1800 years ago, mostly overlapping with the Nazca period. There are three different dominant body types in the pile of 200 bodies and parts. Number one, the S-types, these small winged creatures that we're not going to focus too much on in.

• 11:23Jesse Michels?

  This episode, number two, the J types, or as they're sometimes called reptilians. These are skinny, two to three feet tall, oddly geometric or boxy bodies. And their faces look like the aliens in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Some even have eggs inside their bellies. We have 25 to 30 of these. The mummies I personally think are most interesting are called the M types, or hominids. These look like hominid four to five foot beings. Their organs, tendons, cartilage, and bones fully intact.

• 12:04Speaker 08

  How many, how many bodies? Oh my God.

• 12:13Jesse Michels?

  Before we move on, a word from our sponsors. This was the hardest documentary we've ever had to make. On the way from Lima, Peru to Mexico City, I got sick as a dog.

• 12:24Speaker 08

  Hold on, let me, let me blow my nose. It's getting bad. I wish I was in better shape.

• 12:30Jesse Michels?

  I always travel with Element electrolytes. They are my favorite hydration brand. Just the basics, sodium, magnesium, potassium, that you can mix into water or any drink. No sugar, nothing extra. On flights, in hotels, and right before interviews, when I thought I'd need to rest and call it in for the day because I was exhausted and hacking up phlegm. Sorry for the visuals. I'd hit a packet of Element and it would give me some clean, no jitters, pure energy. I still use the product daily. In fact, during this three hour monologue that we're editing into this documentary, I mixed this little packet into this mountain valley water and I drink it and it keeps me going.

• 13:09Jesse Michels?

  It works if you're fasting and need electrolytes before and after workouts and while researching for long hours. It's also just great if you want to avoid that slow dehydrated crash. Half the time I'm tired, it's because I'm not drinking enough water and I don't have enough electrolytes. I'm also not a daily coffee drinker, so it's kind of become my go-to healthy solution for energy and vitality. So get your free Element sample pack with any purchase. Again, that's a free sample pack with any purchase at drinklmnt.com slash alchemy. That's drink L M N T dot com slash alchemy. Also, try the new Element sparkling. It's a bold 16 ounce can of sparkling electrolyte

• 13:51Jesse Michels?

  water. It tastes like your favorite soda, but it's dramatically healthier for you, and it hydrates you. Our second amazing sponsor for this video also literally saved my ass after Peru. That's of course Ways to Well, founded by my good friend Brigham Buehler. I just couldn't kick whatever I got in South America. Brigham and his team threw the kitchen sink at it. They gave me intravenous stem cells, nebulized stem cells that I literally inhaled to repair my lungs, vitamin IVs, hyperbaric chamber, and red light therapy, all for free. I am convinced I wouldn't have been able to go on the Joe Rogan experience if it weren't for Brigham and his team resuscitating me.

• 14:32Jesse Michels?

  And I can literally say I wouldn't have been on JRE because Brigham made that introduction. If that's not enough, Ways to Well gave my father, who suffers from dementia, free stem cells and helped my mom with her vertigo. Okay, so how does any of this apply to you? Ways to Well does extensive blood work, measuring 75 plus biomarkers, giving you access to custom formulated supplements, even more peptides and prescriptions based on that blood work. They even have an AI app that's literally an alien called Alan, which is a custom large language model healthcare assistant diving deep into your biomarkers. So this couldn't be a better fit for American Alchemy fans. Use code JESSIE to get 10% off your blood work today. This is one of the most important things you could do for

• 15:17Jesse Michels?

  your health. If you're interested in supplements, they sell some of the best ones. They are custom formulated, pure and clean with no junk fillers, no GMOs, they're third-party tested for potency and purity. Just go to ways2well.com and use code JESSIE at checkout for a big discount. I can't thank Ways to Well enough. I truly think they're going to revolutionize healthcare. Please check them out and give their blood work and supplements a try. Now, back to these crazy mummies.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Wow, dude, this is a good one. Fucking way.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  It's this. One, two, three fingers?

• 16:20Speaker 04

  One, two, three. It's not that the code of one finger or the other finger. No, there are three.

• 16:31Speaker 08

  That's a CT scan. Yeah, there's no way. You can't fake that. I mean, I don't need to be a forensics expert to say that that's... If that's a real image, there's no way that that's fake.

• 17:16Speaker 08

  Dude, look at the fingers. Look at the fingers here. That's like the realist.

• 17:22Speaker 19

  Oh my god.

• 17:38Jesse Michels?

  At this point, you are probably convinced that these aren't art pieces glued together, like Flavio Estrada and the Peruvian Ministry of Culture claim. They seem a whole lot like organisms that are anatomically self-consistent. Just look at the image reconstructions from the CAT scans.

• 18:14Jesse Michels?

  You have great independent researchers like Gonzalo Chavez, who helped set up Tridactyls.org, pointing out that the Dicom files made public. If you look at these CAT scans around even the Jteps, the reptilians, you can see capillaries nourishing the eggs inside one of their bodies. I don't even know if the most advanced synthetic biology going on in the United States can fake some of this stuff, let alone a Waquero named Leandro who lives behind a chicken coop in Peru.

• 18:42Jesse Michels?

  We will link all of the medical imaging done on all of these beings on Tridactyls.org, which contains all of the Dicom files with CAT scans and other data, so you can look at all of this stuff yourself.

• 18:57Speaker 03

  We feel that some of the entities are worthy of further investigation.

• 19:02Jesse Michels?

  John McDowell, who is president of the American Forensics Association for a year and just won the highest award in the country for forensics, the Grandwall Award, says this.

• 19:14Speaker 03

  There is evidence, there is data to show that some of these bodies, these entities, can be interpreted to be perhaps living organisms.

• 19:27Jesse Michels?

  McDowell saw the bodies in person. He was joined by Jim Caruso, the chief medical examiner for Denver and a forensic pathologist. A former medical officer in the Navy for decades, Caruso has dozens of peer-reviewed scientific papers and has personally performed over 300 autopsies.

• 19:50Jesse Michels?

  Another person who isn't a stranger to autopsies is Dr. David Ruiz. He's the president of the Peruvian Society of Legal Medicine, so he's kind of the equivalent of McDowell in Peru.

• 20:01Speaker 04

  I have been president of the Peruvian Society of Legal Medicine, right? It's equivalent to McDowell.

• 20:13Speaker 04

  As a doctor, as you call it, a conventional doctor, we see scans and MRIs and images all the time. I mean, we realize when there is something something real or something unreal.

• 20:27Jesse Michels?

  He takes things even farther than McDowell, confidently claiming that these are non-human but very real beings.

• 20:35Speaker 04

  And that the tridactyls have been visiting us for thousands of years.

• 20:41Speaker 09

  We invite the scientists of the world, the professors, the professionals from different universities to be a little more interested in knowing this. Never in the eight years I've been researching have I mentioned or said the word extraterrestrial. Never. We are talking about humanoid species. We are talking about perhaps a hominid like us, a three-fingered hominid.

• 21:07Speaker 20

  The word extraterrestrials has been used by the scientists who do not want to investigate. The archaeologists who resist accepting this and try to discredit it. They call them fake extraterrestrial mummies.

• 21:27Jesse Michels?

  And then you have chief of the medical division for the Mexican Navy, Jose Zalse. He joins Ruiz, but he goes even farther than him, saying not only are the bodies definitely real organisms, he speculates that the beings are so genetically dissimilar to humans that they might be extraterrestrial.

• 21:45Speaker 06

  In the big bodies, like Maria, the DNA shows us that there were around 70% known DNA, but there were 30%, 30% completely different.

• 22:05Jesse Michels?

  You're probably already thinking, Jesse, these were already proven to be a complete hoax. Why are you platforming this ridiculous topic? Well, the only reason you think that these are a hoax is because a journalist, remember the guy who was talking about UFO sightings around the Nazca Lines? A guy named Manuel Caseras made wooden figurines that he glued together, dedicated to the Nazca mummies, to sell to tourists. These little trinkets, pieces of touristic art, meant to resemble the real mummies. These were confiscated at the Lima Airport in 2023. I repeat, that one is fake. It's craftsmanship. Constructed, built.

• 22:46Jesse Michels?

  In early 2024, Reuters published this about the Nazca mummies. "They're not extraterrestrials. They're dolls made from animal bones from this planet, joined together with modern synthetic glue," said Flavio Estrada. But that ridiculous conflation between these wooden figurines and these real, anatomically consistent whole bodies was reported on by Reuters and other esteemed legacy publications. And it's the sole reason so many people in the Western world are so sure this story is fake. It's at that point that the story became a laughingstock.

• 23:21Speaker 19

  Here we are.

• 23:22Speaker 21

  Oh, I love this. I love these. What is that? I don't know.

• 23:27Speaker 10

  Jesse, man. Bro, shit's getting real, bro.

• 23:32Jesse Michels?

  The real story is that this gravedigger, Leandro, found the bodies in 2015. So this must have been completely full of bodies.

• 23:46Jesse Michels?

  Leandro does shamanic tours in the local region. He lives behind a chicken coop and is linked with some interesting local organizations. In 2016, he met a French explorer of ancient Incan lost cities named Thierry Yamin. Yamin is an explorer from another era, a real-life Indian aegon, in this case, trying to find El Dorado. Yamin and his Inkarri Institute have been spearheading a lot of research around these three-fingered beings, or as they're known, tridactyls. Since that time.

• 24:25Speaker 14

  So right now they're showing us the moment, the exact moment they discovered that she was pregnant when they were doing the scans. Because it happens live, so that's what they're showing us right now.

• 24:35Jesse Michels?

  Perhaps one of the wildest revelations, Montserrat, one of these tridactyl M-type hominid-like beings, might also have a fetus inside of it that is a three-fingered tridactyl being. This would imply a genetic match and phenotypic inheritance between a baby and a mother.

• 25:04Speaker 08

  So if you had the tomography, the x-rays, the 3D reconstruction, you had all of that, say, take out the 3D reconstructions, you just had the raw measurement data that you got?

• 25:13Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 25:14Speaker 08

  If you sent that to a normal doctor, you know, who is used to evaluating the health of a fetus in a womb of any mother, would they say, "Oh, that baby only has three fingers?"

• 25:30Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 25:31Speaker 08

  Wow.

• 25:31Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 25:32Speaker 08

  They would be able to spot it, a conventional doctor?

• 25:36Speaker 06

  If that doctor has the curiosity to be very careful, he will say, "This baby has three fingers in the hands and in their feet."

• 25:46Speaker 08

  So it would be easy for a conventional doctor to spot?

• 25:50Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 25:51Speaker 08

  Wow.

• 25:52Speaker 04

  She went, when she passed away, was pregnant. She had a prominent belly. And of course, the amniotic fluid is water, and that is lost more. That's why it looks like her hands are in the air. But she was holding her belly.

• 26:13Speaker 14

  Ah, that's what I was looking at. Ah, I see, I see. And then it just like...

• 26:18Speaker 08

  Oh, it's so sad.

• 26:24Jesse Michels?

  Now, another simple explanation would be that these beings went through typical ancient skull elongation rituals, along with maybe some more unique hand and feet mutilation procedures. But the CAT scans don't really look like the hands were mutilated. And the skulls don't seem to have the stress fractures typical of head binding rituals.

• 26:43Speaker 06

  If you had a closer look, you can see in the skull the line who makes the pressure to deform in the skull, okay? You can see it in the skull. Ah, you can see it? You can see where the humans put something to deform the skull, okay? In the School of Maria, if you saw the tomographies, you can't see any line of artificial deformation.

• 27:17Speaker 14

  And are we noticing that the skull is also big? Okay, so they are born big then? It's not like a manipulation over the skull?

• 27:28Jesse Michels?

  Now, if that's not weird enough, there's a genetic mutation that dictates digit differences, anomalous numbers of fingers and toes. This genetic mutation does that in humans. This mutation was apparently found in the NCBI database holding the genetic data on these Peruvian Nazca mummies. Just listen to bioinformatics expert Elena Hardy on what she found.

• 27:54Speaker 07

  One of the things I did find, and I kind of stumbled across, was I actually went to falsify the hypothesis that there was a genetic mutation that could cause changes in digit development, right? So I went into the literature. I found a list of like 50 genes involved in the pathway. Sonic hedgehog is the one that everybody has heard of, right? This is one of the sonic hedgehog pathways. There's a mutation. In one of those genes called GLI3, where a similar kind of mutation is associated in the literature with polysyndactily. So like the fusion of fingers or extra digits. And so that's really interesting. It doesn't have anything to do with tridactily,

• 28:37Speaker 07

  but it's like not a super common mutation. You know, it's like you wouldn't. It was enough to make me go huh.

• 28:44Speaker 08

  And wasn't there a study of like a Chinese family that has this group as well?

• 28:49Speaker 07

  Yeah, some of the members of that family who have that mutation have everything from developmental disabilities to these digits, like disorders of digit development. And this was like a mutation that comes from like one side, like either the mother or the father. And so you can have this effect with just one side of the family passing on this gene. You don't need two copies of it, right?

• 29:12Speaker 08

  There are other like mutations, right? Isn't there like, there's some tribe in Africa with like ostrich feet? There are these mutations that are maybe even rendered adaptive in certain environments and they sort of persist over time. And so it could just be that, which would be remarkable unto itself.

• 29:31Jesse Michels?

  I don't think this obscure genetic mutation is even widely known in the genetics community. And it's definitely not known by the Waukero gravediggers who dug up the bodies in the first place. So if you could replicate the finding of that mutation, that would be a big deal. At this point, I don't think the question is are these beings real or fake? They are clearly real beings.

• 30:03Jesse Michels?

  Seeing the mummies in person was wild, but I had been hearing so much about this guy behind this story. Jaime Maussan, the supposed charlatan hoaxer. Jesse, don't go to Peru, you're gonna ruin your brand. Jaime is a known hoaxer. I can't tell you how many texts I've gotten like that. I needed to meet the man myself and see what he was all about.

• 30:24Jesse Michels?

  I honestly loved Jaime. Jaime is independently very wealthy. He lives in one of the most beautiful houses on the border of a national park right outside Mexico City and is on a quest to prove that extraterrestrial life is real. When we finish, I'll show you the sphere.

• 30:39Speaker 08

  I can't wait. So excited.

• 30:42Jesse Michels?

  My friend, you feel it.

• 30:44Speaker 08

  You feel it?

• 30:45Jesse Michels?

  This is not fucking real. This is something else. This is so crazy. A few days before visiting Jaime, he happened to have recovered an aluminum object of which he had over four minutes of video flying around Bugu, Colombia. The object appears to drop below the trees and get retrieved on the forest floor. Like he said, it weighs two kilos, four pounds, and then now weighs 10 kilos. Jaime is a bit more sure of this Buga sphere than I am. The sphere is fascinating. It seems to be made of an aluminum alloy three times the hardness of aerospace-grade aluminum. They claim it exhibits electromagnetic anomalies. I think there are some decent debunk's here and my brain was already fully broken by the mummies.

• 31:28Jesse Michels?

  So write a comment if you have any hot takes on the Buga sphere and we'll do a follow-up episode on it.

• 31:34Jesse Michels?

  But the point is, while I don't agree with Jaime on everything, I love his energy and I think he is actually inviting real scientific scrutiny on these things. He can speak in absolutes and isn't always nuanced as I might shake out on certain UFO cases. The bodies are real. The bodies are real. The bodies are real. Uh, the bodies are real.

• 31:52Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 31:52Jesse Michels?

  He doesn't like to engage in lofty theoretical conversations about this stuff. I'm more interested in weird science and abstract theory. But I didn't sense any cynicism or intellectual disingenuousness from him. If anything, I found him to be a boldly stated amateur explorer of a bygone era, just trying to show the public what he's seen. He genuinely believes that the Nazca beings are extraterrestrial and I found him to be extremely generous, not territorial, and very open with all of his findings.

• 32:22Speaker 08

  He took the tomography scans of this ball and then gave us the password to look at the results the same day.

• 32:28Jesse Michels?

  7M mayúsculas, luego. 70.

• 32:34Speaker 08

  So generous of Jaime to just give us the login and password.

• 32:38Jesse Michels?

  I find out. Tell me.

• 32:40Speaker 08

  We will.

• 32:42Jesse Michels?

  He clearly just wants the truth out, and he doesn't care if it's out on his platform or others.

• 32:48Speaker 05

  I think the time has come to to accept that we have been visited for a long, long time.

• 32:55Jesse Michels?

  Why do people say you're a hoaxer?

• 32:57Speaker 05

  Because I have the balls to present things. You know, it's so easy to be in the back and criticize everything. If you have the courage to present things, then you are going to risk yourself. You are going to expose yourself.

• 33:14Jesse Michels?

  Anybody credible in the scientific community, would you guys like to invite them to Mexico City?

• 33:20Speaker 05

  I mean, if you want this to be recognized by humanity, anybody should come, and I think the best experts are welcome. I don't want to welcome anyone who comes here just with the idea to destroy the thing, to construct, to find, you know? He doesn't have to tell us what we want to hear. They want to find out the truth. If they are looking for the truth, you are welcome, anyone.

• 33:49Jesse Michels?

  Now, I know what you're thinking. Maybe these people just want their 15 seconds of fame. But if you really think about these people's credentials, they have more to lose than to gain. They're all fairly well off financially, and they're very credentialed. Jaime is now suing the Peruvian government for $300 million for defamation because of their claim that he's pushing a hoax.

• 34:11Speaker 05

  I really have to remember, I put a lawsuit against them for $300 million.

• 34:18Jesse Michels?

  Wow. Have you invested any personal money to keep?

• 34:21Speaker 05

  I cannot tell you.

• 34:22Jesse Michels?

  OK.

• 34:23Speaker 05

  Cannot tell you. But, uh, but yeah.

• 34:27Jesse Michels?

  The Peruvian government was completely against this case, especially up until September 2024, when they've started to tacitly endorse research at the University of Ica that might actually indicate that these bodies are real. The point is, until then, Ruiz could have faced serious backlash for his involvement with the case. Just look at what the Peruvian Ministry of Culture did to Joyce Mantilla during one of the press conferences around the bodies.

• 35:00Speaker 13

  While we were down there, they raided the press conference. I don't know if you heard or saw about that, but they brought in federal police, federal prosecutors, and the Ministry of Culture actually took over the microphone while he was up on the dais getting ready to speak.

• 35:16Jesse Michels?

  I asked my buddy Pavel from the great podcast Tico Activo what his take was.

• 35:22Speaker 08

  Pavel, thank you.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.

• 35:52Speaker 08

  Thank you so much for being here. You've been covering this for years, well before it's even started to be kind of more de-stigmatized.

• 36:00Jesse Michels?

  He's thoroughly documented the Peruvian Ministry of Culture's slow shift on the Nazca mummies case, the concessions they're now starting to make. They seem to be walking back their early hard-line denials.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  When Jaime started doing the whole lawsuit stuff, that forced the Peruvian Ministry of Culture and the Peruvian government to take this a little more seriously.

• 36:24Jesse Michels?

  And just listen to what happened to Zalsey when he was working for the Mexican Navy when he got involved with the mummies.

• 36:30Speaker 06

  I spent around five days in jail because they said I was a liar and I was putting in risk the honorability of the whole system of the Navy. He said to me, "Please do not continue the investigation of the mummies." And I say, "I can stop doing that because I believe I'm doing something real and important, and I'm not a liar." So I have to demonstrate to the world that it was real.

• 37:09Jesse Michels?

  But what about the cave or tunnel where these bodies were found? Michael Mazzola admits that Leandro may have taken him to the wrong location.

• 37:18Speaker 22

  He said he found Maria here. He said hands here. Like, I don't believe it.

• 37:23Jesse Michels?

  No.

• 37:23Speaker 22

  It was a different cave.

• 37:24Jesse Michels?

  You think it was a different cave? Straight up. And there are plenty of financial incentives to keep this cave's location under wraps.

• 37:32Speaker 13

  My theory is he's been showing people this cave to make money. He charges about three grand a visit. For a tour. For a tour, to go see this cave. We did not participate.

• 37:44Speaker 08

  Yeah, good.

• 37:46Speaker 13

  The cave that he's brought people to did not hold these bodies. There's no way. The cave's too small.

• 37:58Jesse Michels?

  A few different anonymous sources revealed to me that the actual source of these bodies is a large subterranean tunnel system. These sources, some of whom don't even know each other, didn't want to reveal their identities publicly due to fear of retribution from the local cartels. And to be honest, I found them very believable. I also think that made a lot of sense from a self-preservation standpoint, so while I don't always love anonymous sources making bold claims, I have to respect that. There are also a lot of people in and around these tunnel systems that say they see and hear weird things at night. Strange noises coming out of the tunnels, beings that don't seem to walk like humans, and other anomalous observations.

• 38:41Jesse Michels?

  So we might just have a live situation on our hands. And what about so-called Lazarus species? Species that the academic consensus thought were extinct and then get rediscovered. Some of them are millions of years old. One example people speculate about is the Orang pendek in Indonesia.

• 38:59Speaker 10

  There's a thing called the Orang pendek. Have you ever heard of that?

• 39:02Jesse Michels?

  No, what is it?

• 39:03Speaker 10

  They think, I believe it's Indonesia and maybe Vietnam, where people talk about these little tiny hairy people that live in the jungle.

• 39:11Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 39:12Speaker 10

  And so, these Flores things, there's a few biologists that believe these things are still alive.

• 39:19Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 39:20Speaker 10

  They think even on the island of Flores, they might still be alive.

• 39:24Jesse Michels?

  And again, the Nazca region is over 1,000 square miles and currently contains only 80,000 or so people. It's the perfect place for a groundbreaking discovery like this to have occurred. This also isn't the only subterranean tunnel system in the world. There are subterranean tunnel systems all over the world. Some are ancient, like these ones in modern Turkey documented by the great Graham Hancock.

• 39:48Speaker 23

  This is quite a famous phenomenon in Turkey, that there are huge cities, they look like ant farms on an enormous scale that are dug out under the earth. Hundreds and hundreds of rooms, that huge efforts was put into digging deep beneath the earth and creating these shelters.

• 40:06Speaker 10

  We have this concept of this coming from another planet, but it might not be from another planet.

• 40:11Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 40:12Speaker 10

  It might be from here. Like the underground, those tunnels and caverns in Turkey, where they have this immense underground civilization, or city, rather.

• 40:20Jesse Michels?

  And it almost felt like maybe they were hiding out from a cataclysm or something.

• 40:23Speaker 10

  Right. And that's what they think it was, yeah. So imagine, if there's some break-off civilization where they lived, I mean, we're talking hundreds of thousands of years ago, but they're different than us. And, you know, sometimes they come visit.

• 40:42Jesse Michels?

  But there are weirder ones, surrounded by rumors of weird inhabitants or artifacts. Take the Teos Cave system at the edge of the Ecuadorian Amazon.

• 40:51Speaker 24

  There's a legend attached to these caves which involves a metal library made of gold.

• 40:58Jesse Michels?

  It supposedly contains an ancient alien metallic library. The existence of this library gained so much traction in elite circles that Neil Armstrong, that's right, the Neil Armstrong, who was the first man to walk on the moon, was so interested in it that he took a BBC film crew looking for it in 1976. Why would Neil Armstrong look for aliens on Earth after going to the moon? That's a question for another American Alchemy episode. But it shows at the very least that he had confidence that he might find something interesting there. There are also deep underground military bases across the United States. And sometimes ones rumored to house other beings at S4 Area 51 or Dolce, New Mexico.

• 41:42Jesse Michels?

  These represent the more out there myths in ufology from Phil Schneider, Bob Lazar, and Dan Barish involving an American space program that is co-run with the alien beings themselves.

• 41:53Speaker 25

  We went to another part of the facility, went to another building. In that building, we went into an elevator. We took an elevator down, which that was the first odd thing is that it felt like we went down significantly further than like you'd think you would. I mean, it was just awkward. It just stood out.

• 42:11Jesse Michels?

  But even if you don't believe any of those stories, there's a ton of real documentation of deep underground military bases across the United States from hardcore researchers like the great Richard Souter.

• 42:25Jesse Michels?

  But listen to what Thierry had to say about the general region that the mummies were likely found in.

• 42:31Speaker 11

  And there is a little book published in 2004 by a local author from Nazca that talked about various sites in the Nazca area. And it precisely talks about this area and mentions the name of the site where the discovery was made. And it says that this name comes from the word such in the Nazca language. And in conclusion, it means laboratory where cloning and hybridization were done.

• 43:16Speaker 09

  ¿Cómo aparecieron? No hay precedentes. No hay. No hay tres hominides. Sin embargo, al descubrir que su ADN puede haber sido mezclado con tecnología genética, si retrocedes 1800 años, es loco. Es probable que una civilización más avanzada que la nuestra hizo ese mezclo genético. Y es probable que sus creadores provienen de otro lugar.

• 43:59Jesse Michels?

  ¿Fueron experimentos laboratorios de estos seres? ¿Evidencia de una mano oculta guiando la evolución darwiniana?

• 44:08Jesse Michels?

  Y aquí es donde las cosas se vuelven raras. Muchos de estos seres M-type o hominidos contienen implantes.

• 44:14Speaker 08

  Y está, eh, sacando el cuello, está presionando.

• 44:18Speaker 04

  Esto es el rayo X, esto es el rayo X del cuello. Peru aquí hay una lesión cervical traumática.

• 44:23Speaker 15

  Peru la lesión ha sido antes de que pusieran eso. No es debido a la placa.

• 44:29Speaker 08

  Entonces la placa podría haber sido para reparar o corregir.

• 44:33Jesse Michels?

  Estos implantes de metal contienen osmio y cadmio, que son metales terrestres extremadamente raros. El osmio es tan raro que es 1500 veces rara que el oro y 2500 veces rara que el plata. Solo se extrae aproximadamente 100 kilogramos a un tono de osmio globalmente cada año. Para referirnos, 100 kilogramos es aproximadamente el peso de un elefante nacido y un carro pequeño como un Honda Civic pesa alrededor de un tono. Es un elemento extremadamente raro. Peru tal vez lo raro más sobre el osmio y el cadmio es que se descubrieron únicamente oficialmente por el mundo occidental en el siglo XIX. Peru están encontrados en implantes en cuerpos que carbonizan hasta más de 1000 años atrás.

• 45:15Jesse Michels?

  Los raros implantes de metal tienen tejidos orgánicos fusionados en ellos en los cuerpos, indicando que los seres estaban vivos cuando... implants were placed. This process of organic tissue fusing is called osseo-integration. I decided to have a little fun and ask ChatGPT how hypothetically osmium would be used as medical implants. It did say that osmium, if oxidized, could be toxic. But underground, oxygen is much lower. So something like osmium would oxidize way less quickly.

• 45:47Jesse Michels?

  But then it came up with the idea that osmium would make a great brain-machine interface material. I sat down with population geneticist Alan Izarraras, who had his own theory about the metal implants inside these beings.

• 46:00Speaker 26

  There's this thing called bioelectricity that can sort of modulate where genes get expressed, at which locations really precisely. And so maybe like if I'm trying to be like really exotic, maybe these things are modulating some sort of gene expression to make the beings into what they are. Fascinating. Maybe there's a chance that they're like minimally genetically altered. And the rest of the alteration is at another layer of the phenotype, which is

• 46:34Speaker 26

  could be this bioelectricity layer.

• 46:37Jesse Michels?

  Interestingly, osmium and cadmium have also been found on meteorites from space.

• 46:47Jesse Michels?

  After we left Mexico City, another hearing took place there. This time with an American congressman present, Representative Eric Burleson from Missouri. According to Burleson, UFO whistleblower David Grush told him that the beings in Nazca resembled things that Grush had seen in classified settings.

• 47:06Speaker 22

  Whenever I spoke with David Grush, who was the whistleblower from the Pentagon that studied this stuff, I was actually probably not going to go because I thought that there's no way that that's real. And he recommended that I do because he said that based on the physiology of what he's seen in some of these mummies, not all of them. Some of them are faked. But some of the mummies that exist in Peru, that based on the physiology, they are congruent with what he has seen in briefings, in his former role.

• 47:44Jesse Michels?

  And remember the beings in Virginia, Brazil, and James Fox's amazing movie Moment of Contact? They also had three fingers.

• 48:02Jesse Michels?

  There are also very credible American UFO crash retrieval cases that have occurred, you guessed it, in Peru. Just look at the insane story of UFO whistleblower Jonathan Wiegand, documented by my buddy UAP Gerb. Wiegand was part of a UFO crash retrieval team in Peru.

• 48:21Speaker 27

  At one point, it looked half like green and half purple.

• 48:24Speaker 19

  Wiegand, Allen, and Atkins observed a huge ship embedded at a 45-degree angle into the rocky cliff face.

• 48:32Speaker 27

  This is the craft. This is pretty crude, two-dimensional drawing. But this is jungle here. This was the craft, and it was embedded in the rock like this.

• 48:43Speaker 19

  Although no lights were visible from behind the hatch, Wiegand did observe what appeared to be a four-fingered arm hanging limply from the open hatch.

• 48:52Jesse Michels?

  And listen to what Dr. David Ruiz had to say about these beings, our interview taking a hard left turn.

• 48:59Speaker 04

  One of the governments most interested in hiding things is the one that does the most reverse engineering. And those have been all the things that happened during the Cold War era. These bodies connect. They connect with technology. If I accept the bodies, I will accept the technology. But if I want to use the technology for reverse engineering and have supremacy over Planet Earth, then I prefer to hide the bodies, do hidden reverse engineering, and use it for war, right?

• 49:39Jesse Michels?

  Okay, but before we get too excited, there's some real issues around this case. Number one, the provenance. This was found by a grave robber, a wakero that probably does some other somewhat dishonest things for a living.

• 49:51Speaker 28

  They're likely the result of grave robbers taking these ancestral burial, these individuals from their burial sites and then using them to make and sell these things on the open market.

• 50:02Jesse Michels?

  See, the tough thing about the involvement of these wakeros and the global cartels they're associated with is that their involvement is simple. They want to make money. But what their involvement means is not. If the underlying bodies were real or fake, they'd want to make knockoffs and maximize profits by selling new bodies to elites all over the world on the black market, no matter what. If the bodies were real, they'd sell the bodies and make knockoffs resembling the real ones. And if the bodies were fake but looked real, they'd also sell them. So I'm sure these black market sales are happening. And that fact alone should give anyone making bold claims around this case a healthy dose of humility. But I'm just not sure that fact

• 50:46Jesse Michels?

  adds any signal to the noise. This crime syndicate involvement is the part of the case I was most afraid of discussing. It's awkward and adds a real element of danger for anyone covering it. But at the end of the day, if you're a wakero and you're...

• 51:01Speaker 00

  Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.

• 51:30Jesse Michels?

  After watching this, don't be mad at me. All I'm saying is I'm genuinely not sure what's going on. And the price of these things are probably going up as we speak. If this is art, if someone made this, I need to buy one. How much could I get one for? I've heard seven figures. Seven figures? I've heard a lot of money. Geez Louise.

• 51:52Speaker 13

  You know, it's a long hike up one of these small mountains into a cave that I'm convinced has nothing to do with the location. And so initially, he was saying, hey, I found this underground citadel, like almost like a temple, and they were in there, and they were inside a stone sarcophagi. That was the initial story. Then it changed to, no, they were found in this cave.

• 52:13Jesse Michels?

  Do you trust him? Did you get a good...

• 52:15Speaker 13

  No, not even a little bit. Not even a little bit.

• 52:17Jesse Michels?

  He tried to charge me $1,500 just to interview him. So this must have been completely full of bodies.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  It was all was full.

• 52:30Jesse Michels?

  Oh, up to the ceiling?

• 52:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, all was full, so he needed to like car... It's bland, that with the hand, it's very soft. He didn't use any metal. A little mucho, una piedra. Like a... To rush. And the dust was like here and the wind.

• 52:58Jesse Michels?

  As you can see from the cave itself, it looks like it can barely fit one person inside of it, let alone 200 body parts, appendages, heads, and full intact bodies. Number two, one of the isolated heads that look exactly like one of the J-type bodies seems to have alpaca proteins all over it. A proteomics expert who I interviewed but chose to remain anonymous, given the controversies around the case and nascent nature of his findings, said this to me.

• 53:29Speaker 29

  There was an early hypothesis that these could be an alpaca brain case, and there was published paper about CT, showing CT scan data showing these morphological similarities to an alpaca brain case. I ran proteomic analysis on these, got back these peptide sequences which reflect the DNA sequences. Then I used a pipeline from a paper published in Nature two or three years ago about species identification of ancient bone sample, and I ran these, all of these bone samples from the skull through this pipeline, and they all came back identified as alpaca bone. Whether the attached parts, the main body of the skull, all of it came back as alpaca bone.

• 54:09Jesse Michels?

  Number three, UFO researcher Steve Marra told me that two different finger bones of one of the M-types, Maria, were genetically tested in Sri Lanka. He said that one of the phalange bones came back male, the other came back female. If that's true, that obviously throws a wrench in things if you're looking for an anatomically consistent, singular organism.

• 54:30Speaker 13

  Ancient DNA is very tricky, and they've done some DNA work on some of these bodies that come out all over the map.

• 54:37Speaker 06

  The DNA of Maria, we have two options. Seventy percent known, thirty percent unknown, okay? From that seventy percent that we can identify, from that, we identify three specific DNA, one from chimpanzee Bonobo, one from another type of chimpanzee from Africa, and one type from the South Asian human primates.

• 55:18Speaker 13

  Interesting.

• 55:19Speaker 06

  So what the relation between these three different types of DNA in the DNA of Maria in the South America?

• 55:29Speaker 13

  So even in the known DNA, it's a combination that you would never see. It's so exotic.

• 55:36Jesse Michels?

  Number four, the signal the noise with the genetics. A lot of people are talking about genetics who aren't really geneticists. Zalce, who's a forensics guy, is really basing his understanding of the being's genome here off of another guy, Dr. David Ronhel.

• 55:51Speaker 12

  My hypothesis is that Maria is a hybrid, but natural.

• 55:58Jesse Michels?

  What are the two species? It's a hybrid of what and what? What are the two species that created it originally?

• 56:06Speaker 12

  There is a great possibility that approximately 2,500 years ago, we see the new datings of human remains that have been found in Asia.

• 56:22Speaker 12

  That this early human, still wild, may have migrated to Africa and in Africa encountered these organisms. 250,000 years ago, there was still a reminiscence of both the origin of Panpaniscos and Pentrogodites.

• 56:40Jesse Michels?

  Ronhell also says that a parasite that is only found in Africa was found in one of these beings, further corroborating his theory.

• 56:49Speaker 08

  And so you think she's a natural hybrid between Asia and African ancestors? What I don't understand is, how do you get three fingers and three toes and an elongated skull and different eyes and the phenotype is so different?

• 57:05Speaker 12

  Due to the evolutionary history that this organism had in Africa, where what we are finding are physiological adaptations for arboreal life. It has three fingers, it has an extra phalanx that makes them longer, and this allows for better adaptation to grasp tree branches. This is a very similar adaptation to what is observed in sloths, which also have three fingers. But here, the interesting thing is to know how it was transferred to South America. If it was transferred 1,700 years ago, could there have been a cultural and commercial

• 57:50Speaker 12

  exchange between Africa and America 1,700 years ago? That is the question.

• 58:01Jesse Michels?

  The idea that Asia and not Africa is the cradle of mankind, and that Africa and South America may have had contact before the conquistadors in the 15th century, if you add up the chances of all of these being true combined, the theory in aggregate does feel a little far-fetched to me, although I do not doubt Ronhell's integrity for a second. Finally, remember Flavio Estrada, that archaeologist that conflated the wooden figurines confiscated at the Lima airport with the mummies in 2023? Well, yeah, doing that was absolutely ridiculous, but he's gone on to do some more legitimate debunking after that attempt.

• 58:38Speaker 30

  They use cotton in their supposed joints. They apply these fast drying synthetic adhesives, the uju. They use cyanoacrylates and it gives it quite an interesting hardness, right?

• 58:52Jesse Michels?

  He now says that the fingers on the M-types were deliberately mutilated and the remaining ones were lengthened. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether he's shown his hand as a bad actor with his original statements around the glued-together wooden figurines. I'd welcome him to come on my show.

• 59:09Speaker 31

  The government of Peru through the Ministry of Culture is committed to confiscating the so-called Nazca mummies.

• 59:17Jesse Michels?

  Here's why I personally don't trust the Peruvian government and think people like Estrada are just bad faith actors. Many of these beings are currently being researched at the University of Ica. When the vice president of the university, Martin Alacron, was interviewed, he said that the Peruvian government is constantly trying to take the mummies away from the university. And they make it seem like I was a grave robber, so stupid. He also said that the government has made repeated claims that well-respected scientists like Dr. Roger Zuniga, who's studying the bodies at the University of Ica, are themselves grave robbers manipulating human remains.

• 59:57Jesse Michels?

  A ridiculous claim that implies a clear bad faith motive on the part of the Peruvian government.

• 1:00:04Speaker 32

  On seven occasions, they came with, first with police, with a prosecutor and all that. The intention, I don't know why, was to take these bodies and the university had to fight for them to stay.

• 1:00:23Speaker 33

  First of all, these beings belong to the people of Peru. This is Peru's cultural heritage and it's a shame that it's being denied up to this point by the Peruvian government, but that's actually changing.

• 1:00:37Jesse Michels?

  Another point in the direction that the J-types are fake reconstructions is that morphologically, they just don't look super adaptive, like they can walk super well, or be very agile.

• 1:00:47Speaker 03

  Some are potentially real. Warrant further investigation. And in others, I could take a look at them and very quickly tell you, that organism, if it is an organism, couldn't walk, couldn't fly, was not mobile.

• 1:01:03Speaker 08

  There are all these things about this case that I think break your brain because you wish it was cleaner. Like, I think the very clean thing to say is that the large bodies are clearly real. Or they're clearly, they're not hoaxes. They're not, they're not even artificial fabrications from rituals. They're like, you know, organisms, biological organisms that are self-consistent. That are, that are pregnant, in some cases. That are pregnant, in some cases.

• 1:01:33Jesse Michels?

  At this point in the video, you might be wondering, Jesse, how do you personally shake out? Well, you have to think probabilistically, so I'd rather just list the facts around the case. And I'm just a dude on YouTube with no credentials to make any claims whatsoever. But if you really want to know my opinion, gun to my head, I'm just gonna go out and say, I think the M-types are probably real.

• 1:02:03Jesse Michels?

  My guess is the genetics reading Steve Maragot, with one female and one male phalangee on Maria's body, was probably due to human contamination. And Flavio Estrada in the Peruvian Ministry of Culture? I think they're just bad faith actors. I don't trust them at all. And there are really no other solid debunks on this. Very few serious people are looking at this case. And when serious people do get involved, they think these beings are real. Of course, on the fake side, these could be ancient humans that underwent traditional headbinding and had their fingers and toes manipulated. But on that, I'll defer to the three different sets of forensic experts, all looking for finger and toe manipulation, and for human headbinding.

• 1:02:48Jesse Michels?

  None of them found any evidence for either. Then on top of that, we're very close to a couple of very clear smoking guns from proving these are real. For example, if you definitively proved that Montserrat's fetus inside of it was also tridactyl, at that point, you'd be accusing gravedigger Wacheros of cloning abilities that elite American researchers don't even have. Now, also at the risk of stirring controversy, I think the J-types are more likely to be fake or reconstructions, maybe homages paid to the real M-types. The llama proteins found on the isolated J-type head are very interesting to me, and admittedly,

• 1:03:29Jesse Michels?

  I just have an instinctive allergic reaction to them, given how stylized their faces look. But even then, you have dicom files showing bones, veins, capillaries, things that are hard to fake. You have eggs inside the bodies of beings like Louisa. And here's where things get weird. You have the fact that the J-type beings look a lot like some other beings in global UFO and alien cases. Take the Russian snow alien case in 2011, another case that was written off by "experts" as very fake. You see, back in 2011, Russian National Channel 1 aired a report about a supposed mass UFO

• 1:04:11Jesse Michels?

  sighting in the Irkutsk Oblast, a region in southeastern Siberia. That was February. A month later, in March, a video was posted of this UFO sighting. The closest to the strange lights was pensioner Neli Stepanovna.

• 1:04:27Speaker 34

  People are confident that these are the UFOs. The lights were hanging right above the top of the trees. Several spheres were breaking apart, and then they were merging back into one.

• 1:04:38Jesse Michels?

  Local children even managed to film what was happening. These same children were the first to talk about the strange smell.

• 1:04:45Speaker 34

  There was a little bit of smoke from them, and then an unpleasant smell, like from the exploded little bombs boys like to blow up. They lined up in the shape of a cone, and light was reflecting from them. Two women ahead of us shouted, "Look, the UFO!" I heard a rumble, and then I saw a pink light. Everything was lit with pink color. I thought it was an alien.

• 1:05:09Jesse Michels?

  Civil aviation specialists and employees of the Search and Rescue Center, the military, the FSB, and the main directorate of the Internal Affairs of the Irkutsk region, the Department of Internal Affairs for Transport, all joined the search. Scientists came to the aid of the emergency services. As always, they explained everything. "All this looks very much like a meteorite fall scenario," says Sergey Yazev, director of the Irkutsk State University Astronomical Observatory. But the villagers weren't satisfied with that explanation, nor were any Russian UFO researchers. Thanks to Stephen Pearson, an amazing American Alchemy WAP community member,

• 1:05:54Jesse Michels?

  we know that this region in Siberia is home to a lot of Russian nuclear assets. As it so happens, we know that the 29th Guard's Missile Division is, and long has been, a live nuclear-armed mobile ICBM force in Irkutsk. Its nuclear warheads are stored locally at Object 644, not in silos, but in bunkered magazines. As you know on this show, we have documented the UFO-nuclear relationship ad nauseam. This connection is global and ubiquitous, and it adds to my conviction that this 2011 UFO sighting and-

• 1:06:30Speaker 35

  Progressive's Accident Response can contact emergency services if you're in a major accident. The only thing worse than someone you love being in an accident is not being able to help them. So Progressive is here to help when you can't. So get peace of mind knowing your loved ones are protected with Progressive's Accident Response. Learn more at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Limited availability in California. Driver is responsible for emergency and towing charges not covered by the policy. Coverage subject to policy terms and conditions.

• 1:07:00Jesse Michels?

  Possible crash was very real.

• 1:07:04Jesse Michels?

  So anyways, here's where things connect to this Peruvian case, and where things get weird. Вот он там на слике, ручину. Just one month later, in that same region of Siberia, two Russian guys come upon an alien body in the woods. What the hell, I think, what the hell is lying there? I don't know. They filmed the body and uploaded it to YouTube. That video has 12 million views on it. The two guys who found this body were taken in by the police, questioned, and apparently confessed to hoaxing it with breadcrumbs, plasticine, and chicken skin. Again, we know a similar accusation was made about Manuel Caseras' fake creations. So could that too have been a cover story?

• 1:07:48Jesse Michels?

  And it's absurd just how much this being looks like the Nazca Peruvian J-types.

• 1:08:04Jesse Michels?

  And the beings from Close Encounters of the Third Kind, a movie that Ronald Reagan watched in the White House and said there's a lot of truth to.

• 1:08:11Speaker 36

  And he said, "I want to thank you for bringing ET to the White House. We really enjoyed your movie." And then he looked around the room and he said, "And there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true." And he said it without smiling.

• 1:08:27Speaker 36

  But he said that, and everybody laughed, by the way. The whole room laughed, because he presented it like a joke, but he wasn't smiling as he said it.

• 1:08:34Jesse Michels?

  And the chicken skin hoax claim sounds a lot like Manuel Caseras' tourist trinkets. I would love to tell you that I can definitively say that a video with 12 million views on it, on YouTube, of a possible alien body is definitely fake. I realize it's sort of patently absurd, but I just don't know. The debunk's on this video are almost as ridiculous as the video itself.

• 1:08:59Speaker 37

  You would expect to see something, whether it's, you know, alien blood or fluids, or even some sort of... Plus, I don't like it, I'll be honest with you.

• 1:09:10Speaker 38

  So we're going with Chase on this one. The Russian alien corpse is a hoax. Clearly, some people can't get enough alien corpse footage, even though it drives the serious UFO researchers nuts.

• 1:09:21Jesse Michels?

  I don't trust this quote-unquote "expert analysis" at all. It's super weak. Again, I think this video should be debunked, but I think it deserves a better debunk. And if you were part of the defense establishment, maybe CIA, or FSB, or elsewhere, how would you soften the blow on disclosure? You'd say, "Oh yeah, that video with 12 million views you've already seen. Oops, yeah, that was actually real." That would cause a lot less panic than some new video of a being that they haven't gauged the public's reaction to yet. Gun to my head, I would still say this video is probably fake. The students who filmed this video, Timor and Kirill, were 18 and 19 at the time. That's obviously a ripe age for pranking the world to get YouTube famous.

• 1:10:04Jesse Michels?

  But given the similarities with the Peruvian case, and the UFO sighting a month before, if anyone can get in touch with either of these guys for me, I would welcome an introduction at [email protected]. The point is with the Nazca mummies, and with this Russian snow alien, and any UFO sighting, is that the very idea of quote-unquote "disclosure" is just an appeal to authority, to tell you things that you have the ability to evaluate for yourself, right now. Disclosure has already occurred for many people already. The evidence might simply be hidden in plain sight. The very concept of disclosure is a complete misnomer.

• 1:10:47Jesse Michels?

  If we had the ultimate disclosure moment, what would it look like? You saw some gray alien wheeled out in front of Fort Detrick. God forbid, a tactical nuke gets activated in Ukraine or the Middle East, but a UFO shuts down the launch moments before the countdown. Does the world then start to believe in alien life all at once? Probably not. You'd have half the world demanding DNA samples of the body, material analysis of the craft. A flight demonstration with skeptical academics and aviation experts present. But even then, part of society would say that the video recording of this demonstration was an AI deep fake, that the genetic data was fabricated. Reality itself would splinter, with some part of society believing in intelligent

• 1:11:31Jesse Michels?

  life above humans, and an opposing faction digging their heels in with further skepticism around deep state deception.

• 1:11:41Jesse Michels?

  It took mainstream archaeology 15 years to accept Gobekli Tepe after Klaus Schmidt started excavating it in 1994. And that excavation itself was over 30 years after the site was initially uncovered by the universities of Istanbul and Chicago in the 60s. And that's just an anomalously old archaeological site. It doesn't wholesale overturn our understanding of the known universe.

• 1:12:11Jesse Michels?

  Now we get into the more interesting question that everybody should be asking. If either of these beings, the J-types or the M-types, are real, what the [bleep] are they? This is the stuff that's exciting to speculate about. Chilean researcher David Velasco speculates that this could be a global subterranean species. For example, the Hopi people, traditionally associated with Arizona, have a legend around the Ant people. These beings, described as wise and industrious, are said to have helped the Hopi survive by providing refuge underground and teaching them essential survival skills. They also look a lot like the reptilian beings here. They are also traditionally depicted in cave art with three fingers and three toes.

• 1:12:54Jesse Michels?

  Could this just be what we're seeing here? Another possible theory is that the M-types, or the hominid-looking beings, are the hybridization of the reptilians and humans. They retain some of the more idiosyncratic features of the tridactyl reptilians, like the three fingers and three toes, but they look mostly human. Remember the local dialect's translation for the name of the region: "Laboratory for insemination and hybridization."

• 1:13:23Jesse Michels?

  An even weirder theory, and perhaps the most contrarian take, would be that the J-type reptilians are the real beings, and the M-type hominids were just humans who were deformed or mutilated in an ancient sophisticated way to imitate the J-types. Finally, maybe these beings are just the gray aliens that we see in all these abduction cases. Maybe the adult ones are the "tall grays", and the kids are the "little grays". They definitely look like them. In fact, former American Alchemy guest and friend of the show, Whitley Strieber, who claims a lot of contact with gray aliens, and whose book, Communion, helped popularize them in the United States, is deeply interested in this case. In fact, he introduced me to a lot of the researchers. But people describe grays

• 1:14:07Jesse Michels?

  as being able to sort of manipulate their local reality. Well, maybe the osmium and cadmium implants in these beings allow them to control their electromagnetic signature and be perceived differently by different people. Again, who knows? And what about the least crazy possibility? The idea that maybe we've just found a new terrestrial species, or a new branch of hominid? Well, you can actually look it up. We know that anywhere from 21 to 30 hominids have walked the Earth. Depending on how stringent your classification system is, only human Homo sapiens exist today. But guess how many hominids we've discovered in just the last 10 years? Again, depending on your strictness and definitions, anywhere from 5 to 10

• 1:14:52Jesse Michels?

  have been found in just the last 10 years. That's a very high percentage of overall hominid beings discovered in just the last decade.

• 1:15:03Speaker 10

  This is the problem with fossils, right? Because when things die, they don't really create fossils unless it's a very extraordinary instance. You know, like something unusual has to occur. You gotta get trapped in mud.

• 1:15:15Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 1:15:16Speaker 10

  You know, that's how... So, most of the things that have lived, we don't have fossils of. Which is, if this thing was a small percentage, or small population, small percentage of the living humans, and some of them are like that, and they just died off, like 500 years ago, 1,000 years ago.

• 1:15:34Jesse Michels?

  And these ones got saved because they were around a diatomaceous earth mine, which preserved their organs and their whole body.

• 1:15:39Speaker 10

  Just from an anthropology perspective, that should be the most fascinating thing. But it's got the stink of a hoax on it, so people don't want to go and study it.

• 1:15:48Jesse Michels?

  The issue with the hominid thing is that hominids usually don't have three fingers or three toes, but some mammals, like sloths, do. But some anthropologists, like Roger Zuniga at the University of Ica, like to make a very important distinction. They say the M-types are very likely not hominid, given their unique tridactyl features. They are more humanoid. They just appear human, but are ultimately genetically and phylogenetically very dissimilar.

• 1:16:15Speaker 09

  And another thing, not everyone died at the same time. There are specimens that range from 1,800 years to 700 years ago.

• 1:16:29Jesse Michels?

  Wow. So over 1,000 years span difference. Wow.

• 1:16:34Speaker 09

  That makes us journalists and those of us investigating think that there has been coexistence of these species with humans, our ancestors, for more than 1,000 years.

• 1:16:54Jesse Michels?

  The main issue with this entire case is that it has a stigma, a stench. Because as soon as you hear the term "alien mummies," half the population is zealously willing to believe anything, and the other half will believe nothing you say. There are very few adults in the room, conventionally credentialed people, willing to earnestly look into this. I want you to make a two-by-two quadrant. "Credentialed people" is the X-axis, and "open and closed-mindedness" is the Y-axis. Almost everyone is either in the credentialed, closed-minded camp, or the uncredentialed, radically open-minded camp. We need more credentialed people, willing to make bold moves and investigate mysteries like these.

• 1:17:36Jesse Michels?

  Basically, we need more people in the credentialed, open-minded camp. People like John McDowell, Jim Caruso, Dr. Jose Zalse, and Dr. David Ruiz.

• 1:17:46Speaker 09

  I really appreciate that you take the effort to come to my country to investigate this closely.

• 1:17:55Speaker 09

  What you are doing hasn't been done by the scientists. The archaeologists have not done it. Neither have the YouTubers, nor the communicators, nor the journalists have done what you are doing.

• 1:18:10Speaker 33

  Catastrophic disclosure is happening in Latin America. And I wish that our community back in the US would pay more attention to what's happening here.

• 1:18:20Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:18:20Speaker 33

  I'm sick of arguing about the Wilson memo and what it's like, who cares?

• 1:18:24Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:18:25Speaker 33

  We've anointed these high priests of Euphrates.

• 1:18:27Speaker 09

  That's right.

• 1:18:27Speaker 33

  These people who, I won't name them, we all know who they are, who all have security clearances. And we're expected to just all line up and wait for the next little drip of controlled disclosure. And for me, that's not what I signed up for. When I got into this, this was a very anti-authoritarian movement, it was very grassroots. The people with security clearances were the enemies unless they were becoming whistleblowers, you know?

• 1:18:55Speaker 09

  Right.

• 1:18:57Speaker 09

  I thank you once again for coming here. I hope you have a good trip and I want to dedicate to...

• 1:19:08Speaker 15

  To dedicate to his grandpa.

• 1:19:12Speaker 15

  He's going to be, in a few moments, his grandpa, his grandfather.

• 1:19:18Speaker 09

  Oh, no. We were in the middle of recording and I was informed that my grandfather had died.

• 1:19:25Jesse Michels?

  I saw you walk over and my heart went out to you. I felt like we needed to pause and you just continued on. And so, so grateful for you, man, and for all your work. And I know your grandfather is watching over you incredibly proud of all your work. And he'll continue to guide you.

• 1:19:57Jesse Michels?

  Although it's clear that forensic experts in various countries all seem to think that at least the M-types, or hominids, are real, we're just not getting a clear sample from the genetics. Because of that, I decided to hit up my buddy Ben Lam at Colossal Biosciences. From its inception, Colossal was advised by George Church at Harvard, maybe the top geneticist in the world. They've also single-handedly de-extincted the direwolf. They've literally brought it back from ancient DNA samples. So they are gonna run tests on these Nazca mummies. And hey, if Colossal brought the direwolf back from extinction, maybe they can bring one of these beings back too. I'm half joking here. I've seen Jurassic Park and I know how that story ends.

• 1:20:42Jesse Michels?

  But another part of me thinks that the gatekeepers won't accept the reality of these things until they see one live, walking around. There's only one gate to get through. They need the permission of the Peruvian government. If the Peruvian government won't let a top American biotech company, a company advised by maybe the top geneticist in the world, use their proprietary ancient DNA testing techniques to test these mummies, then I don't know what else you need as far as their orientation towards the subject. Us reaching out to them and their reaction will be a clear indicator. It will be a forcing function. Are you pro openness, humanity, and science? Or do you want to be a gatekeeper and keep a lid on this thing?

• 1:21:24Jesse Michels?

  Again, this is Colossal asking for permission to take samples of these bodies from Peru to the US. If that doesn't work out, I will also put up all of the money to personally fly any expert in genetics, any paleoarchaeologist, any proteomics expert, to go down to Peru, go to the University of Ica, and study these bodies firsthand.

• 1:21:47Speaker 03

  I think that there are a lot of different steps that need to be taken if we're gonna realistically examine the specimens. And that would include, and I hope I'm not going too far afield here, but if these are tridactyl organisms...

• 1:22:04Speaker 03

  The DNA here ought to match the DNA here ought to match the DNA here. And interestingly enough, the DNA is most likely to be preserved in a tooth. And so if all four of those or five of those or more areas match up, then you've got an entity. If they don't, that's not the same organism.

• 1:22:32Jesse Michels?

  The definition of a grifter is someone who wants to keep these things in a liminal space. They don't want any of these cases collapsed into true or false. I could just make these videos and tell the world that these things are definitely extraterrestrial, which I can't say for certain, and just move on. But I don't want to do that. I want to actually figure out what the hell is going on. So the mystery continues, but we will find out soon whether this is a crazy sophisticated hoax or we have a new species on our hands. Until next time, I'm Jesse Michaels and this is American Alchemy.

• 1:23:08Jesse Michels?

  Quick heads up for you guys. American Alchemy merch just dropped. It's all super high quality, 100% cotton, embroidered hats, clean designs. It's up now. Go to americanalchemymerch.com to check it out. Thanks for the support. It means a lot.

• 1:23:32Jesse Michels?

  These has a little eye issue. I think that the ocean would heal it because it would be antiseptic.

• 1:23:38Speaker 14

  I'm sure your editor is gonna fucking love having this footage where he just doesn't even know how it's connected.

• 1:23:43Jesse Michels?

  No, we're gonna include it. It's humanizing the story.

• 1:23:46Speaker 14

  Yeah. Should we just take this?

• 1:23:50Jesse Michels?

  ChatGPT reasoning told me that viewers get smart man fatigue from my shows because it's too many facts. So I've got to show more personality. So that's what we're doing now.

• 1:24:00Speaker 08

  Smart man fatigue. Interesting.

• 1:24:02Jesse Michels?

  Smart man fatigue.

• 1:24:03Speaker 08

  I can see that.

• 1:24:24Speaker 35

  Progressive's Accident Response can contact emergency services if you're in a major accident. The only thing worse than someone you love being in an accident is not being able to help them. So Progressive is here to help when you can't. So get peace of mind knowing your loved ones are protected with Progressive's Accident Response. Learn more at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Limited availability in California. Driver is responsible for emergency and towing charges not covered by the policy. Coverage subject to policy terms and conditions.