Greg Oden's untold story: Ohio State legend, drafted No. 1 before Kevin Durant, called a NBA Bust, the what-ifs, battling injuries, addiction, depression, misconceptions, the Miami Heat Finals run & life after basketball.

"My story isn't a basketball story, it's a life story." Greg Oden On this episode of The Pivot Podcast, we sit down with former No. 1 overall NBA Draft pick Greg Oden for one of the most honest and powerful conversations of his life. For years, Greg Oden's name has been tied to one word: "bust." Drafted ahead of future MVP and NBA champion Kevin Durant in 2007, Oden became the subject of endless debates about what could have been. But as Durant himself has said, Greg was never truly given a chance—his career was derailed by injuries before the basketball world ever got to see what he could become. In this raw and revealing conversation, Greg reflects on the pressure of being the No. 1 pick, the weight of expectations, and the frustration of seeing his legacy defined by circumstances beyond his control. From his rise as a high school phenom and Ohio State star to the devastating injuries that robbed him of years on the court, Greg shares the emotional and physical battles that shaped his journey. Parts of this conversation bare all as Greg's transparency truly brings his pain and passion to the forefront. He opens up about his time with the Portland Trail Blazers, the criticism and scrutiny that followed him throughout his career, and what it was like earning a second chance with the Miami Heat and reaching the NBA Finals alongside some of the game's biggest names from Lebron James to Dwayne. Wade to Chris Bosh. Beyond basketball, Greg discusses his struggles with mental health, depression, addiction, self-worth, and the challenges of rebuilding his life after the game. He speaks candidly about regrets, losing loved ones, what ifs , public perception, and the process of finding peace with a career that never unfolded the way anyone expected. This episode isn't about what Greg Oden wasn't. It's about who he is, what he endured, and how he found the strength to keep moving forward when the world had already written his story for him. Greg's new chapter is leading as a dedicated father, mentor, college advisor and also filmmaker, with his feature film "Bust" getting ready to release. A powerful conversation about resilience, perspective, redemption, and one of basketball's greatest "what ifs." Pivot Family...comment, like, hit the subscribe button, we enjoy hearing and learning from you- the good and the bad, we want to know! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:28Ryan Clark?

  There are some people the world labels before they even get a chance to live. The next great one, can't miss, franchise changer. Greg Oden had all of those labels early. He was the best high school player in the country, a dominant force for a year at Ohio State, and the number one draft pick ahead of Kevin Durant. And just like that, expectations became impossible. Because they'll celebrate you quick, but in sports, they'll judge you even quicker. And so today, we sit down with Greg for one of the most honest conversations that we've had. It's about basketball, but more so about life. We talk about the pressures of carrying the hopes of an entire franchise, the injuries that robbed him of the game that he loved. And that label, bust.

• 1:13Ryan Clark?

  How one word can bury a human being underneath hurt and disappointment and public criticism. But we go even deeper than that. Greg opens up about losing his best friend Travis, the alcoholism, the painkillers, the partying, trying to escape mentally while his career was slipping away physically. And that's what makes this conversation powerful, because there's really no excuses in it. It's just truth, it's mistakes, it's pain, it's hitting rock bottom, but also, it's about healing. Finding that purpose through his family, his wife Sabrina and his daughter London. He also gives flowers to Thad Matta, a man who made decision after decision to try to help Greg save his life. This isn't just about the setback, but it's about the get back.

• 1:57Ryan Clark?

  And sitting here today, Greg is peaceful, and he's happy, and he's grounded, finally free from trying to live up to all of those expectations. And isn't that what the Pivot is about? The comeback doesn't always look like championships. Sometimes it's just finding yourself. And Greg Oden finds himself with us, me, Chan, and Freddie T, because this is The Pivot.

• 2:19Ryan Clark?

  Hold up.

• 2:39Fred Taylor?

  Damn.

• 2:39Speaker 04

  What's going on, fellas?

• 2:41Channing Crowder?

  Goodness gracious.

• 2:44Ryan Clark?

  Chan, you know I'm finna tell them about my hoopin', though.

• 2:46Channing Crowder?

  Please don't talk about your game.

• 2:48Fred Taylor?

  You're hoopin'?

• 2:49Speaker 04

  Oh, shit.

• 2:49Fred Taylor?

  What's up, Big Doc? You got it?

• 2:51Channing Crowder?

  Bruh, he always can play ball when ballers come.

• 2:54Speaker 04

  But can he really play ball?

• 2:56Ryan Clark?

  I could really hoop.

• 2:58Channing Crowder?

  Let's go, let's go.

• 2:59Ryan Clark?

  Okay, timeout, though. Here's the difference. I couldn't play like him.

• 3:04Ryan Clark?

  I could play very good in high school. You know what I'm saying?

• 3:07Speaker 04

  Probably play how I play now. I only get about 10 minutes of shots up. That's it, that's all I got.

• 3:12Ryan Clark?

  Man, welcome to the Pivot, Greg Oden, and it's truly an honor, man. 2007 number one overall pick.

• 3:17Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 3:18Ryan Clark?

  You know, took a Ohio State team to a national championship.

• 3:21Fred Taylor?

  Who'd they lose to? Sorry.

• 3:24Speaker 04

  We don't talk about that, too.

• 3:25Fred Taylor?

  Sorry, G. You just got two Gators in the house.

• 3:27Speaker 04

  Nah, we lost to a very good Florida Gator team. I'm not gonna lie, man. Billy Donovan, that team had, what, eight pros on it?

• 3:38Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 3:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, what we got? Al Horford, Joakim, Torian Green. Y'all had Mo Spates on the bench. Chris Richards made it to Minnesota. Sosa has been playing a long time over in Puerto Rico. And then, what was his name, Humphries? The shooter. That boy was cold, man.

• 3:57Ryan Clark?

  But here's the thing, though, G. They gotta talk about that, 'cause they football team pooh now. So that's...

• 4:02Speaker 04

  Don't do that to me. Don't do that to me. Don't do that to me, man. Do you know about that year, right?

• 4:07Ryan Clark?

  Huh? No, what happened?

• 4:09Fred Taylor?

  See, remind him. TiVo. Oh, that was the name?

• 4:12Channing Crowder?

  That was basketball and football time.

• 4:14Speaker 04

  OSU against Florida in basketball and football.

• 4:17Fred Taylor?

  You set it up for that.

• 4:18Speaker 04

  Yes, you did.

• 4:18Fred Taylor?

  I was trying to give you a flower. You went 25, 12, and 4 in that championship game. You did your thing. It's just overall, we were very deep. RC set you up for that one.

• 4:28Speaker 04

  Oh, my bad. I ain't gonna forget Corey Brewer's on that team, too.

• 4:31Fred Taylor?

  Corey Brewer, yeah.

• 4:32Ryan Clark?

  Now, they had a ton of pros on that team. That was definitely a time in Florida Gators basketball that was a high. Kind of set y'all on the trajectory to what they became.

• 4:42Speaker 04

  And football, too, man. I thought we was gonna get y'all. Was it Ted Gann Jr. ran an opening kickoff back, celebrated and rolled his ankle. I was like, aw, come on, man.

• 4:54Channing Crowder?

  Out of Arizona. I was there.

• 4:57Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh, man. We was watching that joint. We played Wisconsin the next day. We was watching that thing. My guy Troy Smith did his thing. Benny Wells was a freshman that year with us, so I respect that team.

• 5:09Ryan Clark?

  Gee, I have a question, man. When somebody like you grows six inches in one grade, in the sixth grade, before that growth spurt, what did you want to be? What were your plans? What were your goals before your height, I guess, forced you into basketball expectations?

• 5:28Speaker 04

  I wanted to watch cartoons and be a kid. No, like, for real. It was crazy because people used to be like, what would you want to do? I said, shit, have me a house and a million dollars in the bank, and I'd be good. You know, that's actually how I thought about life at that young age. It's like, I just wanted, you know, comfort and a little money in the bank and a beautiful family, man.

• 5:51Ryan Clark?

  Well, you know, you have a lot of those things now. You have your wife. You'll have London as well, who you were speaking about before the show started. Talk a little bit about being in Indiana, a place where basketball is king, right? If you can hoop there, I mean, the movies, the Hoosiers, and all of those things that go along with it. When you started to become Greg Oden and were leading teams to big-time games, Parade Player of the Year, Gatorade Player of the Year, how did you deal with some of those expectations as a teenager?

• 6:29Speaker 04

  As a teenager, I was such an introvert, man. I was usually at the movies, you know, or I was on the basketball court. I never really looked at myself as a number one player in the country. I never really thought I was even gonna play in the NBA. I just played basketball. And I think that's a different mindset than what a lot of these kids have nowadays. But really, I just enjoyed going out there, you know, dunking on somebody, kicking somebody in the stomach, you know, blocking a couple of shots. But I never really looked at the future. So at that time, I really mean it. I was just enjoying being a kid. You know, a lot of that other stuff came with it. But, I mean, I had Mike Conley Sr., you know, who was kinda over us helping me and Mike Jr. And me and Mike Jr. was just cool

• 7:13Speaker 04

  'cause he would play video games and I would watch TV. So we never really needed any of that outside, you know, energy.

• 7:20Channing Crowder?

  Bruh, at some point, though, it had to click to you that you're Greg Oden. At some point, like you saying, you just wanted to play video games and go to the movies. It had to click.

• 7:29Speaker 04

  And this is a real life thing. It was after the national championship game. I was walking to class and I could not make it one block. I had to call my coach and say, "I can't go to class. They're stopping cars in the middle, coming out, taking pictures, asking for autographs." I like literally could not get to class. But I just made that walk the week before like it was nothing to class. So that's really when I knew, you know, it was something big.

• 7:56Ryan Clark?

  Why would you go back to school, though? Because at that point-

• 7:59Speaker 04

  Because I wanted to get my degree. I wanted to get some education. Like, I literally, I promised my mom I would get my degree. And I enjoyed Columbus. I really enjoyed going to Ohio State. One thing I say, like, I love Columbus so much, I live there now. But I loved it because I was able to be a kid. Like, I was able to fail. I was able to go out, have fun, get in a little bit of trouble, and pick myself back up while also going out there and, you know, becoming a better basketball player each day. And I really love that about Columbus.

• 8:29Fred Taylor?

  RC asked about expectations. Channing asked about becoming Greg Oden, realizing that. When was the first time you encountered pressure as it relates to your maturation through basketball?

• 8:45Speaker 04

  Well, I guess I'm gonna go ninth grade where Pike beat us. Jeff Teague's old team, or his team now that he coaches for. But we lost to them by eight and I missed nine free throws. So you know, that next day, reading the paper, you know, back in the day, we used to read the paper the next day to see what we did, what they gonna talk about. And I think that one was the first time, like it really hurt seeing that. And I think that's actually when I started like, alright, I gotta get better. I gotta be the best player I could possibly be. And I actually, you know, uplifted myself and 6 a.m. workouts, Monday through Thursday. Me and Mike Conley, we would be at AAU tournaments, that's back when we had to go almost every weekend.

• 9:28Speaker 04

  And shoot, coach tells us, Monday, you gotta be there, y'all the leaders. So 6 a.m. workouts. I ain't gonna talk about how I used to sneak out the house and get back at 5.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  My mama know now, my mama know now. Sorry, my.

• 9:46Channing Crowder?

  You know what, I wanted to ask this too, but you brought it up because you was 0 for 9. Why y'all big baskets can't hit no foul shots? Is it y'all's hands, is it the height? Why like Shaq? I'll call Shaq out. Hack a Shaq is the thing. Why y'all big baskets can't hit no foul shots?

• 10:00Speaker 04

  He hold the basketball like this, that's why he can't.

• 10:05Channing Crowder?

  I seen him hold a Coke can.

• 10:06Speaker 04

  Like me, I just, I was never a shooter, man. Like I go out there and be like, what I need to shoot for, I can just dunk on your head. That's, that's easy to me, so why am I doing this other thing? So I think that was, that was it. I guess the pressure too, you know, when you up there, it's just you, you know? And everybody looking at you, I think that gets to a lot of people too.

• 10:28Ryan Clark?

  How much does an introvert personality play into that? Because that's the one time where basketball isn't about team. It's just about you at the free throw line with an entire arena looking at you.

• 10:40Speaker 04

  Shoot, once I get between those lines, I don't really think about it no more. They used to call me the gentle giant, but soon as I stepped across that line, when I mean, there's miles. I remember the first practice in Portland, people were like, oh shit, he's a shitter. I'm like, what? What are you talking about? Motherfucker, you dunk and you be. I was like, what? I started rolling. I thought that was the funniest thing in your life. But when I did dunk, like I literally would lift my legs up like, you know, like Shaq would do and try to kick somebody like that's just, that was just the ferociousness that I had.

• 11:14Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. For you, when you go to Ohio State, I know you had made a pros and cons list, I think even before you got to college, about what going to the league or playing college basketball would be like. You were back at school, couldn't even go to class after the national championship. What went into your final decision to say, hey, after one year, it's time for me to leave a place I love like Columbus?

• 11:41Speaker 04

  I was gonna be the number one pick. It was simple as that. I mean, you can't pass that up. I had a conversation with Coach about coming back. He actually laughed at me when I told him that I wanted to come back. He was like, well, you about to be the number one pick. Number one most famous person in the country at that time. You gotta take this advantage. Now, if you're gonna be, you know, 20 or after that, maybe it's a conversation, but number one or number two, you gotta take that. That's life-changing stuff.

• 12:11Ryan Clark?

  You know, once you do make the decision, I mean, you think about it, you come along in high school and you're the next one four years after LeBron. And then now you're gonna be drafted ahead of Kevin Durant. So there are all these expectations. When you start having conversations with doctors about having season-ending knee surgeries before the season even starts, what were those conversations like? And how did you kind of decompress after hearing it?

• 12:40Speaker 04

  It was a, I don't know how I say this, weird conversation. Because it was like, all right, we might wanna go in there and just see what's going on. And I specifically remember that conversation. And then I woke up. Season in the surgery. So the conversation in my head was, we gonna go in there, see what's going on. Then we'll come back out and make a decision. But the decision was made to have season in the surgery. So I woke up like, oh shit, it's over before it started.

• 13:13Ryan Clark?

  So you're saying before you go into surgery, they're saying, okay, we're gonna scope you or go in there and see what you need.

• 13:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:18Ryan Clark?

  And then when you woke up, that's when you were told?

• 13:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:21Ryan Clark?

  That the season was over?

• 13:22Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, my mom was there, Mike Senior was there, you know, the GMs was there. So it probably was a decision, since we already here, you know, let's just go do it. I mean, let's not waste any more days. Let's get them the quickest that we can possibly can. But I do remember looking at those x-rays and that cartilage was missing. It was a lot of different places, the cartilage missing in there.

• 13:45Fred Taylor?

  They didn't give you the extent of risk that follows the microfracture procedure? Before the procedure?

• 13:54Speaker 04

  Yes and no. Like at 18, 19, how much do you really understand? You know, what that microfracture is gonna do? And also, it's not like they talking about in 2007. Yeah, Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway both lost their athleticism from getting this surgery.

• 14:12Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 14:13Speaker 04

  So if you asking that, they never said that.

• 14:15Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 14:16Speaker 04

  You know, and I never thought that, you know, shoot, four of them things. By the time I got to Miami, even if I wanted to play, I was not the same player. Like, I literally had no more athleticism at that time.

• 14:30Channing Crowder?

  You ever think about what if?

• 14:32Speaker 04

  All the time. And it doesn't bother me.

• 14:35Channing Crowder?

  What's the what if in your mind?

• 14:37Speaker 04

  Shit, I would love to what if have a hundred million dollars in my bank account.

• 14:43Channing Crowder?

  But, but you, you, bro, it's crazy for you to say you went to sleep, woke up, having a microfracture. I had two microfractures. Them shits is terrible, cuz that's when they poke it and it bleeds out and makes the cartilage.

• 14:56Speaker 04

  And you in that machine for what, eight weeks? Just eight hours a day bending your leg? When I first got to Portland, like, literally, we put a bed downstairs in my living room cuz I had to be in that machine all day and I couldn't really walk upstairs, man.

• 15:12Channing Crowder?

  But that's what, that's what the people, I think, your career is what if, in my mind. Like, we look at you, dog, high school killer, college killer. Then you got to the league and it's like, we down here in Miami. We remember Miami days and, you know. Like, do you regret any of that, any of those decisions that you made or people made for you?

• 15:37Speaker 04

  That's exactly where I was about to go. You know, I can't blame anybody else because when I think about the what ifs, I think about the nights that I was out drinking, the nights that I didn't come back into the gym and got the extra shots up, the nights that I decided to walk around Portland and stop at every bar and at least have three drinks at every bar that we stopped to. We used to call it the walk. And this is not a down thing, that was actually fun, by the way. But I should have got my butt in that gym again, you know. I don't need to be going to the gym early just to get out the alcohol. I probably should have got in early to get that extra lift in, to get that extra run in, to be in better shape, to start shooting my threes. That's the stuff. So I don't think about the what ifs because I had the opportunity.

• 16:21Speaker 04

  I did get injured, but I still had some things, some growing up to do. And I should have did a little bit more to be the best player I could possibly been.

• 16:29Ryan Clark?

  When did you realize that the self-medicating, the alcohol, the pills, the coping mechanisms were a thing that was truly, truly ailing you?

• 16:47Speaker 04

  At one point, I got bulimic.

• 16:50Speaker 04

  So to lose weight, I literally would be at a steakhouse and throw up every time I ate something. And I did that for about eight months. And I'm about to show y'all something, y'all can pass it around, and then I'll explain it.

• 17:11Channing Crowder?

  So you would eat?

• 17:13Speaker 04

  Throw it up?

• 17:15Channing Crowder?

  On purpose?

• 17:16Speaker 04

  Yeah. As a black man.

• 17:21Channing Crowder?

  It's not funny, but what was the point of that?

• 17:24Speaker 04

  Well, I don't know if you recall, they gave me a lot of muscle so I can, you know, guard the shacks, the Yao Ming's. But I couldn't move at that size. So I really had to, you know, I had to try to downsize. I didn't know how else to do it. But I'll explain this. Because this is-

• 17:46Channing Crowder?

  What's in that picture?

• 17:47Speaker 04

  So this is a picture of Avril PM, Benadryl, Tylenol PM, Zequell, a beer. And what's not in the pictures is the Percocet and the Vicodin that I would take every night just to sleep for four hours. And not to mention, I would go out and party that night too. And what I mean, every night, just to sleep four hours? I had to take all of those. Vicodin and Percocet, by the way.

• 18:17Fred Taylor?

  What's the timeline when you were doing this?

• 18:20Speaker 04

  Portland.

• 18:22Speaker 04

  So-

• 18:22Fred Taylor?

  Rookie year?

• 18:24Speaker 04

  Well, rookie year, I started throwing house parties because, you know, it's weird when you're one of the most famous athletes in the world and everybody knows that you're 19.

• 18:36Fred Taylor?

  You got a lot of time on your hands.

• 18:37Speaker 04

  I got a lot of time. I can't even go hang out with my teammates because they want to go out to a nice dinner, then go out to the club. And the security guard looking at me like, "Motherfucker, we all know who you are. You can't come in here, I'm gonna lose my job." So now I'm just, "Shoot, my uncle, shit, go up in there and get me something." So now I'm at the house, now I'm throwing parties. Now shit, I'm the house party guy. You know, and this is 19 to, shit, when I got released, what, 24, 25? You know, and that was, that was a consistent thing for me.

• 19:11Channing Crowder?

  Bruh, so you go out partying, you've been up all day. You've been up 20 hours. You go out partying, drinking-

• 19:22Channing Crowder?

  And then you have to come home to take Z Quill Percocet.

• 19:25Speaker 04

  Advil PM, Tylenol PM, Benadryl, and have me another beer just to sleep for four hours.

• 19:31Channing Crowder?

  Why could you not get some rest? I party too, bro. We talk about it all the time. Like, I used to go out and have a good time. Why did you need all that to get some sleep?

• 19:39Speaker 04

  I'm a night owl, man. I don't know why. It's like 11 o'clock hit, I'm just, I'm up. Even if I'm not going out, I'm watching TV till 3, 4 in the morning, just sitting there. Like, I just, I'm not a good sleeper like that. So like, when you text me, you're like, "You a wild boy." I'm like, "Shit, nigga, I'm tired." I'm finally tired.

• 20:02Speaker 04

  It's 9 o'clock in the morning. He like, "If you don't wake your ass up." I'm like, "Man, I'm trying to make it to 12. What you talking about?"

• 20:10Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 20:39Fred Taylor?

  I think it's also a form of anxiety that you, a lot of times, you don't recognize. Now, I also dealt with a lot of injuries. I dealt with the public criticism that came with it from the people that expected you to be available to be a part of the success of the organization. And all of that tends to compound. And now you have these pressures in your mind where you don't think about it, but you mask those pressures, whether it be playing video games, drinking, you know, taking the pills. I didn't have it to that extent. But I smoked, I drank, you know, I did those type of things. But with that, because...

• 21:16Fred Taylor?

  Things got sort of dark for me, but I was able to escape because I had a sports psychologist that the team recommended for me. We became great friends. For you, how dark did it get through those injury years?

• 21:28Speaker 04

  That was an everyday thing for me. I didn't want to ask somebody if I was depressed. I didn't want to ask anybody about anxiety at the time. You know, it was like, I was drafted a year or two before K-Love, and he didn't just start talking about it till, what, six years ago, maybe? You know, so nobody was really bringing that thing in, as we talked about before. As a black man, you don't want to bring that to you. So, I like to say, how do you overcome doubts, expectations, and narratives? And to overcome all that, you need to decide what you want to do, evolve, and never give up. And when I think about those things, those have become my mantra, because think about what I just said.

• 22:14Speaker 04

  Overcoming doubts, expectations, and narratives.

• 22:19Fred Taylor?

  Wow, it's already in you.

• 22:21Speaker 04

  It's already in me.

• 22:22Fred Taylor?

  On you.

• 22:23Ryan Clark?

  I love that, man.

• 22:24Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 22:25Ryan Clark?

  Along during that time, because I think people build up the narrative that everything was about injury, everything was about my career or your career not going in the way that it should. But your best friend Travis passes.

• 22:38Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 22:38Ryan Clark?

  Maurice Lucas.

• 22:40Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 22:40Ryan Clark?

  As well, and then you have a cousin diagnosed with cancer who passes.

• 22:44Speaker 04

  That was like three months after.

• 22:46Ryan Clark?

  How much did losing people also affect you during that time?

• 22:50Speaker 04

  Well, Travis, that was a hard one. That was my best friend since the fourth grade. And what I mean, he was the only male person in my life that can keep me on the phone for longer than four minutes. And me and him really looked like Robin Big, by the way. He was a golfer, he was short, and I'm, you know, almost seven feet tall. And like, there's a picture of us that we went to prom together, and I got the cowboy hat on. And we're the only two, well, him, me, him and his girlfriend, the only two of our friend group that didn't get kicked out of prom because we didn't pre-game, we went to his golf tournament that year. So that's my dog. Like, I skipped my prom to go to his prom.

• 23:32Speaker 04

  Shout out to Will Patterson, because I knew he was going to win Prom King, so I was like, fuck that, I ain't going.

• 23:39Speaker 04

  Because I had already got Homecoming King, so they wouldn't give it both. But that one hurt because I do remember we played Michigan State. And I talked to him right before the game. And he was about to drive over. But my grandmother said she wanted to come to the game. And I just remember after the game, it was just a different energy. And my brother, don't get me wrong, I love my brother. But me and him, we butt heads a lot, especially at that time. And he just came and gave me a hug. And I'm like, what? What's going on here? Where Grandma at? Like, I started thinking about every other thing. I never thought it would be Travis, though. I mean, I think it was at least six or seven people involved between both cars in that accident.

• 24:24Speaker 04

  He was the only one died. Everybody else had minor bruises. Just being the short guy in the pickup truck, when the impact hit, it hit him and tore his aorta instantly. So there was nothing anybody could do about it. And I remember leaving. Mark Titus' dad, Bill Titus, he was the only one because he lost a good friend before. That would calm me down, brought me back to the dorm because I had no idea what I was going to do. I just left and started crying for a few hours.

• 24:53Fred Taylor?

  Do you ever look at his tragic death and say, this was supposed to happen to happen for his reason? And compare that to, you know, your career? And say, this was supposed to happen this way?

• 25:05Speaker 04

  Well, I don't like to say that about his death because his family is like my family. But for my career, I've matured enough to understand that it's already written. I can't control any of it. All I got to do is be prepared for it. So if it was supposed to happen this way, it happened this way. And I'm comfortable enough to know that I'm going to enjoy this journey because it's the only one I got. So I'm not looking at the glass, you know, half empty. I'm looking at it half full. Like, I got, I was a number one draft pick, y'all. I made me some money, man. I met a lot of beautiful people in this world. I made some great friends, especially out there in Portland. I got a beautiful wife. I got a beautiful daughter.

• 25:47Speaker 04

  I am comfortable and I'm happy where my life is now.

• 25:51Fred Taylor?

  And you do have a beautiful wife and a beautiful daughter.

• 25:54Speaker 04

  Like I said, damn.

• 25:55Fred Taylor?

  I like to get pictures.

• 25:58Speaker 04

  I appreciate it.

• 25:59Fred Taylor?

  I hear images, and I say, ooh.

• 26:03Channing Crowder?

  Hey, Chan, when you say that, though, you trying to be complimentary, but you also be nervous. You know what I mean? Because you can't be like, "She all right." Yeah.

• 26:15Channing Crowder?

  What if I said you got a foe? You gonna be out with me all day?

• 26:18Speaker 04

  Hey, I thank you, man. Look, I'll be over here, I'll be at the beach, like, go right here, you can look.

• 26:23Channing Crowder?

  I'm gonna look too.

• 26:25Speaker 04

  I'm gonna look too.

• 26:25Channing Crowder?

  But I'm about to knock that shit later on.

• 26:28Speaker 04

  Shoot, I'm about to cuddle like a mug. I don't know what you're talking about.

• 26:32Channing Crowder?

  You a little spoon? Do you little spoon? Because I'm a little spooner.

• 26:38Channing Crowder?

  How he gonna be the little spooner?

• 26:39Speaker 04

  I just spoon this morning, I ain't even gonna lie.

• 26:43Speaker 04

  Nah, because I gotta sleep with a pillow in between my legs, and I gotta sleep one for my elbow. So it's a lot on her, so sometimes I turn away. And she come get me.

• 26:54Channing Crowder?

  Cuddle that little, cuddle that little move, though.

• 26:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know.

• 26:57Channing Crowder?

  This guy, boy.

• 26:59Speaker 04

  It be so funny, I be hearing some of this stuff, I be like, shit, that's what I think too.

• 27:06Channing Crowder?

  I was gonna ask about the family, though, like,

• 27:10Channing Crowder?

  is it enough? Because we, it's crazy that you younger than us. We watched you be the top of basketball. Is it enough for you now with your life? Your wife, your daughter, you're like, is it enough for you? Because like I asked earlier about the regrets and all that, like, now you're sitting in a place of what?

• 27:31Speaker 04

  Happiness, gratefulness. It is enough. And don't get me wrong, like I said, I would love a hundred million dollars in the bank account, but right now, we got a beautiful home. My daughter just graduated 4th grade. My wife's doing her thing, she's a RN, real estate agent, she's trying to get a couple of group homes. When I really had to assess myself... I got Dr. Carr out of DC, the therapist. I really started realizing, and I was intentional about this when I retired, trying to figure out who I was. Because everything was always about the sport. But then, when it was taken away from me, who am I? I didn't even know what I liked. If I take alcohol and partying out the equation and basketball,

• 28:15Speaker 04

  I'm literally a newborn baby again. So I really sat down and figured out what are some things that I like. I had to assess myself and I realized I was a mentor. I really like doing this. I really like talking. I really like helping the younger generation or even helping others. So I don't know if y'all know this, for the past seven years, I've been teaching financial literacy to athletes. So I enjoy doing stuff like that. Now I'm trying to get into public speaking space. Because my story is not a basketball story, it's a life story. And then, what's up? Now I'm working with a sports management company. So I'm helping these kids get into college, you know? I can make any phone call to any college coach in the country and they gonna pick up, wondering, "Why the hell Greg Oden calling me?"

• 28:58Speaker 04

  And I'm gonna be like, "Well, I got a kid that I just want y'all to take a look at." So I'm fulfilled in everything that I'm doing right now, but I know there's more to come.

• 29:06Ryan Clark?

  Seth Wickersham wrote a story about you and he talked about some of the things you had been through. And in the story, you were working out at Ohio State. And you said, "I'm the biggest bust in NBA history", which I disagree with, first off. But Kevin Durant actually said, he's like, "He's not a bust because he never actually had a chance because of the injuries." Why do you categorize yourself that way? So much so that there's a movie that you're executive producing called "Bust"?

• 29:40Speaker 04

  Well, for one, I don't let that term define me. Now, I'm gonna... Always give nothing but praise to KD. I really appreciate it when he said that. But also, I remember sitting in my living room when he hit that shot over KD. When he was with Golden State, they played Cleveland. Oh, LeBron's, yeah. He hit that long three, right? But do y'all remember what happened when they went to commercial? Uh-uh. It was a Nike commercial. I was always number two. Number two draft pick. Number two this. This is the first thing. So he, top of the moment. And then another moment. And to me, it felt like I was sitting on.

• 30:24Speaker 04

  So for me, I'm looking at it like, alright, well, if Kevin Durant is this great, technically by comparison, I'm the biggest bust. That's how I looked at it. Now, with the movie Bust, it's a fictional story that my guy Richie made. But when he, he actually dry called me. Sent the email. And I looked over the script and I was like, I ain't gotta do nothing? Okay.

• 30:52Speaker 04

  But I really resonated with the story because it's not about a bust. It's about somebody getting a second opportunity. And I think that's what's overlooked in that word. A bust is somebody that has the opportunity and did nothing with it. And nothing happened. I think in this movie, in my life, I got the second opportunity. And I played in the NBA Finals with the Miami Heat. You know, and that's kind of what's going on. I can't really give it all away about the movie. But that's a part of it as well, you know? He gets a second opportunity and we kind of look at him and go, you're not a fucking bust. You actually get another shot.

• 31:35Speaker 04

  So take fucking advantage of it, you know? So I look at that as well. There's a lot of things that happened after Miami that I can't really talk about legally.

• 31:48Speaker 04

  But I would just throw this out there. Y'all know what I mean by this. The Ray Rice situation, right? Yeah, I had something like that afterwards. And then I'm trying to rehab and come back. I still want to play. So you go to the NBA and because Ray Rice, it was so fresh, goes, alright, well, we're not going to give you a suspension till you get on the team. Team says, I'm not going to sign you till I know he's going to be suspended. So to me, that's a never-ending circle of basically being kicked out the league. Nobody really talks about that. I'm not going to say it was a black ball, but when you say that Ray Rice,

• 32:33Speaker 04

  the country was so up in arms around that time and it was so sensitive that I could see it.

• 32:39Ryan Clark?

  After the, that was in 2014.

• 32:42Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 32:42Ryan Clark?

  Now with Sabrina, your wife, in London. What conversations have you had to have with Sabrina? And which conversations will you have going forward to London when some of those things that you can't really speak about right now are a topic of conversation?

• 33:01Speaker 04

  I've had many of conversations with Sabrina about this. And it's just the respect of women, man. You got to respect them. You can't be putting yourself in those situations. And I mean, the number one conversation I had with her said, if I ever feel like this, I think I got to walk away. Like, I can't have that anger ever again. Like, I can't be put in this position. I'm not going to put myself in this position again. And, you know, I have to respect her at all times, but I can't go down that road again. And London, she's definitely got her phone now. Her and her friends definitely be Googling me. And I don't think she saw it yet. But for me, I'm trying to create a beast.

• 33:45Speaker 04

  I'm like, shoot, when you get to that age, you know, have fun, have dinner with this motherfucker, like, figure out what you want. Don't just settle and then settle early and you haven't even lived life yet. And that's something that I fully believe. I used to be like, and no disrespect to Sabrina, I love you, I do. When I was at Ohio State, London was born when I was 29. I was like, shit, man. 32, y'all motherfuckers don't have kids till you 35.

• 34:19Speaker 04

  And they thought I was playing. I'm like, nah, motherfuckers. Enjoy life, enjoy being a kid, enjoy being a young man. And especially, you know, those 25 to 30 something age where you starting to come along with money and you can do whatever you want. You don't want to kind of be handcuffed to where you can't just pick up and come down to Miami with your boys or do anything that you want to do. Because you still a young kid trying to develop as well, but you got all these responsibilities.

• 34:47Ryan Clark?

  The big thing too, that that needs to be said is even in trying to keep ourselves out of certain situations, when it comes to the respect of women, it's about not putting them in those situations as well. And making sure we're in an emotional state where that's not a feeling, that's not a want, that's not a desire, that's not a reflex. And I know, you know, you shared that with Sabrina and I know you're also gonna share that with London, yeah. It's about making sure you are safe and protected at all times and the person that you're with should have that same feeling about you. And so I love the fact that you were able to have a conversation about a moment, you know, I'm sure you're not proud of, so I respect that.

• 35:31Speaker 04

  And then, you know, I'm very sorry that it happened and I will always apologize to this day because that's not the type of person that I am. It was a weak, weak, weak moment.

• 35:44Speaker 04

  And character with me.

• 35:46Fred Taylor?

  E.G., I want to talk about second chances, but not in a basketball sense. Just going back to the mentorship, you know, the role that you're doing right now. How important is it for you to share your experiences in life and what you have gone through? And where these kids are now in the NIL era, you know, and what they need to accomplish to go on to be successful?

• 36:10Speaker 04

  So the thing that I like to share with them is very simple. Stop worrying about all this other shit and be a kid. Worry about your damn sport. Don't worry about having to post an offer. That's like when we used to get our letters. We never looked at half them motherfuckers. Like, they over there posting this school, posting that school. I'm like, you not even gonna go, you didn't even have a conversation with anybody. You just got the offer and now everybody need to know. And they so worried about showing it instead of doing it. And for somebody that basketball was taken away from me too soon, I want y'all to concentrate and make your sport the main thing and being a kid the main thing. Everything else don't really matter. But also, you know, I want to make sure that they're supported and they're helped because there's some snakes out here.

• 36:55Speaker 04

  I'm not doing this because I need to do it. I'm doing this because I want to do it. I enjoy going to a college campus and, you know, going on a visit with these guys. My only thing is, you know, when you work with more agents, they like to talk. Look, I'm a good two minutes. I'm like, fuck this conversation, man.

• 37:13Speaker 04

  I done gave you the intro, man. Everybody trying to hear this shit.

• 37:20Channing Crowder?

  As you, as you talk, bro, I think you take a lot of accountability. We had, um... Was it Marcus? J. Russ.

• 37:26Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 37:28Channing Crowder?

  And he takes accountability as well because he's like, you know, I know he doesn't like being called a bust and you have a movie coming out with you in it called Bust. But you also talked about how you were partying too much. And I talk about it all the time. Bro, I'm gonna go out. Like, they just gave me $588,000 after taxes.

• 37:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:46Channing Crowder?

  I'm about to go spend this at Tootsie's.

• 37:48Speaker 04

  Oh, 100%.

• 37:50Channing Crowder?

  You know what I'm saying? So, so, so the, the separation in the injury, because like I said, I had 17 knee surgeries. And also your responsibility for it. And it's, and, and I struggled to put a, like, I don't know, a percentage, but I struggled to, see, you know what I'm saying? Like, if I, if I stay, you just said it. I should sit at home. I should go at 6 a.m. I should get an extra workout. I should do that.

• 38:12Speaker 04

  I actually should have got a chef.

• 38:14Channing Crowder?

  Well, I, bruh, I wouldn't.

• 38:15Speaker 04

  Instead of my cousin just making breakfast for the ladies at the house.

• 38:20Channing Crowder?

  I wouldn't have enjoyed 20 to 28 if I didn't drink, smoke, party. I wouldn't. I'd have sat in the house. I can't, that's not who I am. That's not, it seems like that's not who you were.

• 38:32Speaker 04

  It wasn't, but you also think, like, shit, going to the gym for an extra hour at 7 o'clock, shit, we ain't gonna be back out on the streets by 8:30. You know, so it's, it's time that you could do that. But to put in that extra work just shows how much you really care about what we was doing. But as y'all hear me talk, I really care about people being just people. Stop worrying about everything else. Be a young man, enjoy life. I really care about that. And I think that's why I am where I'm at now. And when I say that, like, this is my journey. I'm gonna enjoy every second of it, and I'm happy with it. So I don't need nobody looking down on me. I don't care about that fucking bus weather. Shit, I am happy and comfortable in my life.

• 39:14Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a Superior Light Beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch. In Bev, Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 39:43Ryan Clark?

  Gee, can you explain to me how someone who's a self-proclaimed introvert is also a partier? Right, like, like, those things don't seem to match up to me.

• 39:53Speaker 04

  Aw, man, look.

• 39:55Channing Crowder?

  Hennessy?

• 39:56Speaker 04

  He might explain some of it, but the drinking.

• 40:00Channing Crowder?

  Is, is it Hennessy?

• 40:01Speaker 04

  Uh, like, I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't like people. And my wife be like, some motherfucker that stay here don't like people. You sure do talk to a lot of motherfuckers. And you know what's crazy?

• 40:14Speaker 04

  We've been so used to it at a young age. Like, I'm not performing, but Stu, when I leave here, I ain't texting nobody, I ain't getting on the phone. I'm just gonna sit in the car quietly, you know? Like, I just, I'm not always on because we gotta be on at every couple moment. I don't know how the fuck you do it, to be honest with you. I don't know how the fuck you do it. I'll be looking at them like, goddamn, that boy gonna have a suit on at 6 a.m. tomorrow on ESPN.

• 40:40Speaker 04

  I need to go to sleep.

• 40:43Speaker 04

  But no, man, I enjoy being in the house. I enjoy watching TV. I love going to movies. Those are my spaces where you can't bother me. My wife's like, alright, you gonna go to the bar? I was like, yeah, but if you roll up on me, you gonna see I'm sitting at the bar, watching SportsCenter in the corner. Like, I remember this story, and I always say, I love LeBron for this. I say, I would never be able to hate him for this. So, we in DC, the Hito's, you know, they got a big old section. Everybody in there, everybody looking. I'm like, man, I just kinda ducked off to the regular bar in the corner, chilling by myself, got my little shot. Next thing I know, the fucking C's just parked. Motherfucker come over there, I see Team Security. That motherfucker Bron said, Gio, you good?

• 41:28Speaker 04

  I said, yeah, I'm straight. He said, cool. Alright. I said, oh, I like this motherfucker right here, man.

• 41:38Speaker 04

  That's my favorite Bron story. I thought that was the coolest thing in life, that he actually came and checked on me. But when I talk about the introvert, like, even out and all of that, shoot, I was like, you want a session? Actually, if I can get a motherfucking chair at this bar, I don't really need a session.

• 41:53Channing Crowder?

  Chill.

• 41:54Speaker 04

  So, like, I'm out, but I'm not intentionally out talking to everybody. But I understand life now. Like, when I walked in, I forgot that I need to make sure I said hello to everybody. I understand that, but then, you know, I just, I like my time to myself.

• 42:11Fred Taylor?

  Expand on that, though. Walking into the Heat locker room, you got Bron, Wade, Bosch, you know, after a couple years away from the game. What did that do for your psyche? Like, did it restore confidence, or did it put your mind?

• 42:25Speaker 04

  I was just happy to be back on the team. I was happy to have some new brothers. I was happy to play basketball again. Believe me, I was scared of this city. I gave myself one day a week. And that's usually me going to Prime just to have a dinner. Like, I rarely went out. My cheat meal, I went to the Denny's before it got tore down, right there up Biscayne Boulevard. Man, what, I was up in there getting All-American every Friday, and we was in town. I didn't look at it as confidence. I looked at it as I wasn't gonna fuck this up because they just got two championships. So, I mean, I know y'all have met with Beasley before. I don't think he told y'all, but shit, when we had off days, me and that motherfucker sat in his house or my house, just drinking a bottle of Hennessy.

• 43:09Speaker 04

  Like, because we was like, we not gonna get in trouble again. He already had his first stint here. And I'm like, shit, I'm just happy to get another opportunity, so I'm not gonna fuck this up. We ain't gonna go out, we ain't gonna be seen out. Because I remember when I was in Portland, every time I would do something, I felt like I had to have a meeting with the GM. So like, every day I'm walking in, "Yeah, I heard you was here, I heard you was here", and I felt like a little fucking kid. Goddamn, you know, I don't see me over here shivering. I'm trying to hide that from y'all, by the way. It's cold as fuck. Sorry about that.

• 43:39Channing Crowder?

  You can't be cold, you too goddamn big to be cold.

• 43:42Speaker 04

  Shit. I don't know what that gotta do with anything.

• 43:45Ryan Clark?

  And y'all come from the Midwest.

• 43:47Speaker 04

  Yes. And I get cold.

• 43:49Ryan Clark?

  All of us from the south. You know what I mean? Like, cold is not our thing. You should be used to it. Your body should be insulated in a different way.

• 43:58Speaker 04

  Nah, I still get cold. I'm a motherfucker that turn the air to 67, but I also got me a big ass cover on it. My wife be like, "It's cold in the biz." I be like, "Want it wrapped up, baby?"

• 44:11Channing Crowder?

  I gotta ask you about the Heat culture of Pat Riley then when you was down here, because that's a big thing. Does that really mean something? Because culture is what they always amp it up. But the Heat was one, Wade and Shaq them one. It's talent that wins. This culture thing, does it really mean something down here?

• 44:30Speaker 04

  I would say the culture was started by Pat Riley, but it's brought on by Spo. Spo, I think is one of the best coaches I've ever seen in my life. And how he handled all of those guys, those different personalities. Because we not just talking about CB, Bron and D Wade. We talking about a Birdman. We talking about Beasley, Mario Chalmers.

• 44:55Channing Crowder?

  Battier.

• 44:56Speaker 04

  Battier, who was my best, my favorite person on that team, by the way. I hung out with him and Birdman more than I hung out with anybody else. And I be sitting there like, alright, we got a suburban mix kid from outside of Michigan, or outside of Detroit. And then you got this big, tall, born in Long Beach, raised in Texas. And I just be sitting in between them like, y'all motherfuckers really best friends?

• 45:22Speaker 04

  I love both of them. And you know, I got a lot from Birdman, by the way. I thought him talking well, first off, everything that Shane Battier knows is crazy. So I would love to get so much knowledge from Shane. But then Bird, he would talk to having so many people leave you. To the point where he didn't trust anybody. You know, he only trusted his teammates. Everybody else, because of all that shit that went down in Denver, he like really don't fuck with nobody. And so they hear all of that, I would hear so many different things. I really enjoyed that. But to go into the culture thing, I really do think it is. I mean, it's all of it. It can't just be one thing.

• 46:05Speaker 04

  Now, it does help you got the greatest player to ever play the game. Technically by the numbers, before we go on that argument. Before we go on that argument, technically by the numbers, he is the greatest basketball player to ever live. But I grew up with Michael. And Steph done changed the game like everybody else. But I also, I think Will and Bill Russell, those was my guys too. You know, I got to throw in Will, man. I used to hear the stories about Will.

• 46:31Channing Crowder?

  Man, them bigs out here, so the bigs love him.

• 46:34Speaker 04

  I mean, and you think about Shaq. I mean, shit, these, but everybody ain't gonna play against each other. So all you gotta do, that's just, as Bron says, barbershop talk, you know? But by the numbers.

• 46:45Ryan Clark?

  So speaking of the big men then, as someone who was a generational talent as a big man coming into the draft, we now have something we've never seen in Wimby.

• 46:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:56Ryan Clark?

  When, you know, the way you would break down film at Butler, when you were coaching and those different things, when you see someone like Victor Wembanyama, what are your thoughts on where his game can continue to escalate?

• 47:10Speaker 04

  Once he gets Giannis' weight, it's over. I think, I think he's, everything he's doing right now is, is right there. But once he gets that little bit more muscle, I think it's fucking over for the league. Because for him to be able to shoot like that, to be as mobile like that, and then for the motherfucker to jump, what, two inches off the ground, but he damn near at 11 feet. Can't nobody stop that, you know? And I, I just, I, I, I respect all players that make it there, because it's not a lot of us. And, and he's doing his thing, man. But also, Shays, Shays, that's a bad man right there, too. That's a bad man right there. But even though when I think about this, and I'm an asshole, because I come from a different age,

• 47:54Speaker 04

  man, I would have had to take one for the team. Y'all motherfuckers ain't gonna get 40 without somebody coming up trying to take out their leg now.

• 48:03Speaker 04

  Look, I am taking one for the team. This is some bullshit. Look, if you cross me over and do that, oh yeah, you know that next foul, it's gonna hurt. It's gonna hurt you.

• 48:12Ryan Clark?

  It's a different time though. But no, but no, OKC, OKC's doing it to, to...

• 48:17Speaker 04

  Oh, they was doing it to Wimby. Yeah, they got Artest doing it to Wimby.

• 48:22Ryan Clark?

  Is that the answer to that big dude? Is the, really, they beating him up?

• 48:25Speaker 04

  No, because I'm old school. You know, I'm just talking shit right now, but even though I really believe it.

• 48:30Ryan Clark?

  No, but is that the answer?

• 48:31Speaker 04

  But that's not the answer.

• 48:32Ryan Clark?

  What's the answer?

• 48:33Speaker 04

  The answer, shit, better defense?

• 48:37Ryan Clark?

  But double?

• 48:38Speaker 04

  Double.

• 48:40Fred Taylor?

  It actually might be to do him how Lance Stevenson just did Bees. Maybe Bees tap out.

• 48:46Speaker 04

  What'd he do?

• 48:47Fred Taylor?

  You ain't see it?

• 48:48Speaker 04

  I did not see it.

• 48:48Ryan Clark?

  They had a mixed martial arts fight, and he choked him out, and Bees tapped. Lance Stevenson beat him.

• 48:53Speaker 04

  Well, first off, you know Lance being Indy, and then when he played for the Pacers, I used to see him all the time. So Lance is funny, man. Born ready, baby. Yeah, I thought you were gonna say. When he was in the 8th, 9th grade, that's what they called him. So he would always play up, they called him born ready.

• 49:08Ryan Clark?

  People forget how good of a basketball player he actually truly was at his height, because he was blowing in people's ear and stuff like that.

• 49:17Speaker 04

  It was just the antics that kind of took away from it, but that boy can hoop, man, still can. They just talk too much for me. Like I just said, I don't like all that talking shit, man, I'm done with this.

• 49:29Ryan Clark?

  Do you have a question? Do you think when people see you now, right? Because I was thinking about when you walked into the Heat locker room in, what was it, 13? When you walked into the Heat locker room, obviously Bron is Bron, D Wade is D Wade, Chris Bosh is Chris Bosh, and that was supposed to be your trajectory, right? You were supposed to be that kind of player if not for the injuries. Do you think when people see you, like real hoopers, they see who you were as far as your potential was supposed to be, the number one overall pick? Or they see the guy that had the injuries that never saw the promise?

• 50:06Speaker 04

  Honestly, I don't give a fuck how they see me, I know how I see myself.

• 50:11Ryan Clark?

  How do you see yourself?

• 50:12Speaker 04

  And, you know, it's my journey. I don't give a fuck what it was before that, I'm thinking about what's going on right now. Am I gonna get on this basketball court and dominate that I know I can? But I'm not trying to give any energy to me caring about what you think about me. Because I know I'm happy and comfortable with myself, I know I'm always gonna come in the room, and because I am so big, I love to fill every room with positivity. You know, I'm always gonna be nice, I'm always gonna say sir, ma'am. It's not because I don't remember people's names, it's because my mom respected me.

• 50:49Speaker 04

  My mom taught me some respect. But that was always a big thing, and that was even before I got to where I am later on in life. I always was like, it's weird walking into a room where most, everybody knows who you are or can see you, and you know nobody. So for me, it was always fill up the room with positivity.

• 51:10Channing Crowder?

  To that point, man, and I know it's a tough question, but without the knee injuries... I don't, I'll say personally, I don't think you're a Shaq.

• 51:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:19Channing Crowder?

  But the Tim Dunkins, the David Robinsons.

• 51:22Speaker 04

  You know, David Robinson's my favorite player.

• 51:24Channing Crowder?

  That is that.

• 51:25Speaker 04

  That's who I modeled my game after. It was supposed to be David Robinson.

• 51:28Channing Crowder?

  And that's a, I gotta say, it's a, it's a, it's a loaded question to see, but without them needs, bro, is that, is that what it, is David the guy?

• 51:37Speaker 04

  David's the guy to me. David, that was my guy, man. I, I really respect him and still to this day, I saw him in the airport and I ain't gonna lie, I turned into a little fangirl. I was sitting,

• 51:48Speaker 04

  we in the lounge, I'm over there like, well, he taking a nap. Mr. Robinson, good to see you.

• 51:57Speaker 04

  Like, that's my guy. And it's funny because I'm actually a fan of a lot of people. Like, a lot of people, they see other athletes and other celebrities, and I'm gonna be like, shit, I loved your movie. I'm just Greg Oden, I am a fan. That's all I wanna tell you. I don't want nothing else. But I ain't gonna lie, I will ask a couple of people for pictures, cuz I'll be like, you know, and I, I thank Bron again. I went to see Lakers play the Pacers, and my daughter loves Bron. And, you know, he don't take no pictures before, like, when he was warming up. But he walked over there and he saw me and my daughter, and he took a picture with us. And I, I really do appreciate that.

• 52:35Ryan Clark?

  I know we getting close to the end. Everybody needs people in their lives to believe in them. And I feel like Thad Matta is one of those people for you. Not only at Ohio State, but you coached under him as well. How important was it to have a relationship like you had with him? In getting those second chances and continuing to believe in yourself?

• 52:59Speaker 04

  Well, Thad Matta was a part of so many great moments in my life that made me who I am. That's first, getting to college.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  And then going back to college and then getting my first coaching opportunity. And I'm just, when you think about that, when you hear me say that out loud, that Motta has really helped my life get to where it's at right now. He's given me every opportunity to be the best person I can possibly be and every opportunity outside, if that's financial or just the opportunity to coach and be around kids again. And the biggest one was for me, when I was going through my depression, when I got done after Miami and I just didn't know what I was gonna do. He said, gee, just come to the gym. And I just started going to the gym. It gave me something to do, cuz I had nothing. Like, I literally would wake up and start drinking. And so, when I started going to the gym, it gave me purpose.

• 53:54Speaker 04

  And I say that to say, four years later, I got my degree in sport industry. My bachelor's in sport industry. And then I continued it. In 2014, I got my master's in sports coaching. But also, I was the video coordinator. I was the assistant big man coach. And I was kind of the NIL liaison for the players off $100,000. And then I got my master's in sport coaching. And Coach Motta walks in, he's like, yeah, fellas, we gonna make the tournament. I'm gonna need y'all to come in early and stay later. I said, yeah, I'm going to Vegas for 10 days.

• 54:35Speaker 04

  Well, I got my master's in sports coaching and quit coaching.

• 54:38Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Ryan Clark?

  Hey, them early, hey, early mornings, man, they ain't good for you.

• 54:43Speaker 04

  I do not like, I'm not a morning person at all. Like, I literally wake up, look at my daughter and be like, love you. Thanks, babe.

• 54:53Ryan Clark?

  Hey, when I shot him the text, I was like, hey, man, you know, what time I work for you? He said, it has to be after 11:00. I'm not a morning person. And I said, all right, cool, bet. And this morning, he texted me, I was on the plane, I was like, you up early? He's like, man, I just wanted to make sure everything was good. I'm finna go back to sleep. Get your, get your big ass out the bed.

• 55:11Speaker 04

  I slept till 10:30. The only reason why I got up that early, I was gonna sleep until 11:15, was because my daughter wanted to get some breakfast. And I was like, alright.

• 55:21Fred Taylor?

  So you're not a bus driver yet?

• 55:23Speaker 04

  Oh, hell, man, I would be a bus driver, by the way. That's a good one.

• 55:27Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I mean, take drop-offs, man.

• 55:29Speaker 04

  But I can't fit, technically. I gotta have...

• 55:32Fred Taylor?

  No, no, not like a real bus driver, but just dropping off baby girl to school early in the morning.

• 55:38Speaker 04

  If I do, that's only because I'm gonna go to Lifetime after.

• 55:42Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 55:42Speaker 04

  So, knock my workout out.

• 55:44Fred Taylor?

  Good reason.

• 55:44Speaker 04

  And then I would go right back to sleep for the next four hours.

• 55:47Ryan Clark?

  Gee, when you go to Lifetime, people don't walk up to you, talk to you, have conversations?

• 55:51Speaker 04

  They do.

• 55:52Ryan Clark?

  Do they always know who you are?

• 55:54Speaker 04

  Most of the time.

• 55:56Fred Taylor?

  Because you at that fancy gym.

• 55:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, man. Shoot, I spend that money, I'm definitely going.

• 56:02Ryan Clark?

  I go plan fitness.

• 56:03Speaker 04

  I know my cousin like plan fitness, but I like to take a shower afterwards. So I'm too big. I say this, you can't be big, mean, ugly, and funky. Right? And two of those, you can't control.

• 56:19Ryan Clark?

  Right?

• 56:20Speaker 04

  So I can't be mean and funky. So I always tell these kids, get your ass in that goddamn shower.

• 56:28Ryan Clark?

  That is, hey, that's a boy.

• 56:29Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I'm in the YMCA, like the Village People.

• 56:33Speaker 04

  I mean, I grew up in the Boys and Girls Club, so...

• 56:35Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, we always ask our guests, what's their biggest pivot in life? That's the moment you can look back on and say, because this happened to me or for me, I am who I am today.

• 56:46Speaker 04

  Biggest pivot of life for me? I think it was Thad Marley telling me just to come to the gym. I think that one, when I went back to school, my daughter was born around that time. That one was the biggest pivot for me because I was no longer...

• 57:04Speaker 04

  Defined by basketball at that time. Now, I was working and coaching, but that chapter of me was now officially over. I'll always be known and represented with basketball. But I personally recognize myself as Greg Oman, the nice human being, the gentle giant. And it was no more Greg O than the basketball player. Because shit, through a span of six years on the team and through a span of 10 years, I barely fucking played basketball. So, you know, I had to get that one out my head anyways.

• 57:36Ryan Clark?

  Retiring is like a death for a lot of us. In the sense that it's something we did our entire lives. It's been a part of us for so long. And now, we can no longer do that thing, be that thing, or see that thing. Was there any part of retiring or letting basketball no longer define you that was a relief for you?

• 57:58Speaker 04

  I would say more of a release because I was finally comfortable in my own skin. Like, I didn't get a chance to talk about my anxiety story. Playing with the Heat, as you talked about me walking into that locker room. Where we had one of our, like, season ticket holder dinners. And I remember having my suit on, right? And going in there, I'm talking, I'm doing the dance. And then I remember going home and taking off that suit jacket. And everything but that one little area was wet as shit. And that's when I really, and I knew it while I was there. I was just like, I used to actually be, I used to have public anxiety. That's when I talked about, you walk a room, everybody know who you are, and you never know who they are.

• 58:41Speaker 04

  And so, that's the one where I really noticed it after leaving that event. But, yeah, that one was, was pretty bad. But now, I'm more comfortable. I don't sweat as much. But I do actually a lot wake up with the cold sweats. A lot.

• 59:00Ryan Clark?

  On what?

• 59:03Speaker 04

  Change clothes three times in a night. Have no idea. No problems, no nothing. It could be a day and not even drinking or had anything for a while, a week. Just wake up in cold sweats. And so I don't know what that one speaks to, but I know y'all looking at me like, y'all might need to talk to a brother. You might need to get somebody to talk to you. I do go through some things, but as we talked about, as a black man, sometimes I feel like I don't like to, even though this is one of the most public spaces you can actually talk about it in. But I'm comfortable with myself and I know there's some things I still need to work on. You know, as we both know, going through those pains, the partying, you can go ahead and say you sober all you want to, but it's always an everyday thing.

• 59:46Speaker 04

  You know, I'm always gonna be an alcoholic. It don't matter if I ain't drank for two or three years or if I drank yesterday. I'm always gonna have to deal with that and take a step every day to just be better and better.

• 1:00:00Ryan Clark?

  You do drink sometimes, no?

• 1:00:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, I like my wine, I ain't gonna lie.

• 1:00:04Ryan Clark?

  How did you? I have been sober for three years and eight months now. How did you come to the decision to be able to say, I am an alcoholic, but I also trust myself enough to take a drink?

• 1:00:24Speaker 04

  My wife gave me this book, and Drunk AF, and it's about not letting the alcohol run you. I'm a grown man. If I wanna drink, I'm gonna have a drink. And once you give yourself that power of that I don't need to drink, if I want to drink, I'll have a drink. And that's been a little bit better for me of helping me understand that, all right, I don't need to drink. I will go a couple of weeks without it because I don't need it. But if I want it, I'm gonna get it instead of me sitting there looking like, oh, fuck, let me go in the basement because somebody gonna see me drinking a bottle of wine. No, I'm not giving that drink that power. I'm gonna own it.

• 1:01:09Speaker 04

  I understand who I am. I understand what I do. But you're not gonna see me out here trying to fight somebody drunk as shit, causing a big ass scene. And so when I got to that realization that I need to own it myself, and also... I'm going all over the place, you know. I still gotta think about my daughter, who's seen everything. She's nine years old. She watches every fucking thing. And, you know, she'll come up to me sometimes and be like, "You only get one." You know, and I understand that. And I gotta do that for her sometimes, but I'm not giving the alcohol that power over me anymore.

• 1:01:43Ryan Clark?

  Man, thank you so much for being so open. You know, I feel like I've been bothering you for like two years now.

• 1:01:50Speaker 04

  Man, you haven't been bothering me, man. I'm just so happy we can make this work.

• 1:01:53Ryan Clark?

  Nah, man, I really appreciate you. Like, what we try to do is tell stories in a different way. Uh, but you actually are the person telling the story. And I do believe this is gonna help a lot of people who only know your story from the periphery and from the outside to know a little bit about some of the journey that's taken you to get to this spot, man. So, appreciate you.

• 1:02:13Speaker 04

  Man, well, first off, I thank you guys for providing this platform for people to come tell their stories. Um, you know, if anybody wanna invest in the movie bus, uh, you can go ahead and look it up. We gonna need some distribution. Uh, I'm just letting y'all know, if anybody wanna give me some money, I'll take that too. I'm Greg Oden on IG.

• 1:02:33Channing Crowder?

  I got a ass though. Y'all wash at the gym?

• 1:02:36Ryan Clark?

  I go home. I'm close, I'm close.

• 1:02:38Channing Crowder?

  You take a shower at the gym naked?

• 1:02:40Speaker 04

  I got shower shoes. And I don't walk around naked like all them other men. I be like, "Put your dick up, man."

• 1:02:47Channing Crowder?

  Y'all talked about it, I let it go, but I was like, "Man, how the hell you bathing at a gym?"

• 1:02:51Speaker 04

  I got, I got my towel, you know. I walk over to the shower. Ain't no more open showers, motherfucker. This ain't, this ain't nice brand.

• 1:03:01Fred Taylor?

  Bro, he's at Lifetime.

• 1:03:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm at Lifetime. You got individuals, they got towels. I like Lifetime because they got the, uh, the ear things and they got some lotion and deodorant for you. And since I got hair now, I be using the hairspray.

• 1:03:15Channing Crowder?

  Hey, I ain't talking about Q-tips, nigga. I'm talking about you being naked, standing around everybody, and you don't know.

• 1:03:21Speaker 04

  This is a problem. By the time you need to talk this, 'cause them old men be over there like, "Yeah, so how you doing, mister?" Only if you don't get your dick out my face. That fucking two centimeter tool.

• 1:03:34Speaker 04

  And it's always a small motherfucker that's just be naked. What is this?

• 1:03:39Fred Taylor?

  You ever seen the Depends in there?

• 1:03:41Speaker 04

  No, I have not seen the Depends.

• 1:03:43Fred Taylor?

  I seen a dude at the shower shaving and his Depends, he was like eighty. I'm like, come on, bro. I've never seen Depends, and they were little designer Depends too. It was crazy. I was like, this the Pampers drawers? It was crazy.

• 1:03:58Speaker 04

  I be saying, I'm like, people still wear white titties? What's going on here?

• 1:04:01Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Joe Thiesman was good for that though. When you try to go in the steam room, Joe Thiesman to talk to you in that Captain Morgan stand. Like, you can see, yeah, you can sit down, Joe Thiesman to cock up on you like this, he be like, yeah.

• 1:04:13Channing Crowder?

  How you doing, how you doing? You gotta speak to everybody.

• 1:04:19Speaker 04

  That's funny, that's funny. Hey, man, I appreciate y'all.

• 1:04:23Ryan Clark?

  Freddie T, only you would see somebody in Pampers, bro.

• 1:04:26Channing Crowder?

  I'm at the YMCA.

• 1:04:29Fred Taylor?

  She don't wear them TAs like sixty plus.

• 1:04:31Ryan Clark?

  Manny Man, what we taking?

• 1:04:32Speaker 04

  I just go 'cause it's free.

• 1:04:33Ryan Clark?

  Can I take one of them by myself? I'm gonna cut his head off in the picture though.

• 1:04:46Ryan Clark?

  I was all good, appreciate you.

• 1:04:47Fred Taylor?

  Me and Shaq had, we, yeah, we got a joke not going. There it's my saying, my bitch, you put your fucking elbow on my head, we gonna, we gonna rumble.

• 1:04:54Speaker 04

  Shaq, what you gonna do?

• 1:04:55Fred Taylor?

  How's that?

• 1:04:56Ryan Clark?

  Get beat up?

• 1:04:57Fred Taylor?

  I'm gonna hit that bitch straight in the, straight in the kidney.

• 1:05:03Fred Taylor?

  I'll swing straight, hit him right in the kidney and then take off.

• 1:05:05Speaker 04

  Shaq is one of the coolest dudes on the show, man.

• 1:05:07Ryan Clark?

  He could do it. Awesome, yeah.

• 1:05:09Speaker 04

  A smart man right there.

• 1:05:11Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. He made a lot of money too.

• 1:05:12Channing Crowder?

  But you were talking about like the, the, the intelligence, but the people skills?

• 1:05:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:17Channing Crowder?

  Bro, he could walk into any room and he'd take over the room.

• 1:05:21Speaker 04

  I love Charles Barkley too because when you see Charles Barkley walk anywhere in the city, it's like they talked about in The Last Dance when Magic was like, oh, you hear? Charles love to be out again, but that's how his life is still.

• 1:05:34Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, dude. See, we were in Atlanta, how we got him on the show? Somebody was like, man, Charles always go to the bar right around the corner. We shooting the show, we all went over there, man, we hung out the entire night. We walked in, he was upstairs, we just sat down, chopped it up with him. Couple of weeks later, he was on the show.

• 1:05:51Speaker 04

  That's awesome. Y'all, y'all really are doing great things. I love watching y'all. I be, I be cracking up, I be, shit, that's me.

• 1:05:59Channing Crowder?

  That's why I was trying to do it like we were talking, I was like hmm. You're like Spiderman? My man, me, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:06:06Speaker 06

  That's exactly what it is.

• 1:06:38Speaker 07

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, theHouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.