Peter Brimelow on the Invasion of America, Who’s Behind It, and How Long Until Total Collapse

Thirty years ago William F. Buckley banished Peter Brimelow from Con Inc. for saying that immigration was destroying the country. Turns out Brimelow was right. (00:00) It's Time to Rethink Immigration (15:05) Why Brimelow Was Pushed Out of National Review (21:27) Is Israel an ethnostate? (27:23) The Effort to Make America Less White (33:33) Why Letitia James Is Trying to Destroy Brimelow Paid partnerships with: Hallow prayer app: Get 3 months free at https://Hallow.com/Tucker TCN: Watch 'Replacing Europe: Following the World's Deadliest Migration Route,' dropping January 20 only on https://TuckerCarlson.com Last Country Supply: Real prep starts with the basics. Here’s what we keep stocked: https://lastcountrysupply.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:34Tucker Carlson?

  Peter Brimelow, thank you so much for doing this. I thought of you last week when I read this. I don't know how much you follow Axe, but there were a couple of exchanges that suggested to me that things were changing very, very fast. Okay, so here's, here's one. This is a, this is a tweet from last week, less than a week ago, from a guy, from a basically an anonymous account, and I'm quoting, "If white men become a minority, we will be slaughtered. Remember, if non-whites openly hate white men, while white men hold a collective majority, then they will be a thousand times more hostile and cruel when they're a majority over whites. White solidarity is the only way to survive." Okay, that's on the internet.

• 1:13Tucker Carlson?

  Elon Musk retweets it and says, "100%!" And then Elon Musk writes this, "If current trends continue, whites will go from being a small minority of the world population today to virtually extinct!" Exclamation point. All of that, in my opinion, is obviously true. And I think most people know it. But I read that, and I thought, here's the world's richest man who owns this platform, and a lot of other things, saying this. And Peter Brimelow, who I know, who's a thoroughly decent person, has had his life turned upside down and basically been destroyed in some ways, professionally, anyway, for saying things that are way more

• 1:56Tucker Carlson?

  restrained for that than that. So I have to ask you what it feels like to see that.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  It feels kind of tingly on the one hand. Tingly? I'm happy that the debate has moved in that direction and the things that we were talking about 25 years ago on vidair.com, which was my website, like both white citizenship and so on, are now in the public debate. On the other hand, you know, we've been ruined and we're facing personal ruin, of course, because of this attack on us by the New York Attorney General Letitia James. As nobody knows who I am, I should say that, you know, I'm a long time, it's part of my accent, I've been here for 55 years and I'm a long time financial journalist. I work for Forbes and Fortune and Barron's and so on. And I work for National Review, I wrote for National Review a lot. And I wrote a piece on immigration

• 2:48Speaker 02

  in 1992, saying Time to Rethink Immigration, that sometimes cracked with kicking off the modern debate. And there was a brief civil war within the conservative movement at that point, which we lost and Buckley established in the back and purged the magazine of Immigration Patriots. And for the next while, you know, the Wall Street Journal editorial page was absolutely dominant and going on about the need for amnesty and there was no way to combat it. So I set up a website, which I call, I named vidair.com after Virginia Dare, the first, the first English child, not white child, as they always say, born in the New World. And over a period of about 25 years, we built up into quite a force until about

• 3:31Speaker 02

  two years ago, it was destroyed by the New York Attorney General Letitia James, who just basically subpoenaed us to death. And has in fact now sued us personally and as in the foundation, through the foundation. So we're a bit like General Flynn, you know, no middle class family can stand up to this. General Flynn had to sell his house and we're going to face, we're driven into personal bankruptcy, I guess.

• 3:57Tucker Carlson?

  It's a horrifying story. I've kept abreast of it through your wife, who texts me is a wonderful person. And I know that you're a man of great personal decency and restraint and basically a great citizen and the kind of immigrant we need. And I'm grateful to have. So the whole thing is shocking and so revealing. But I'd like, if you don't mind, to start closer to the beginning of this story with your experience at National Review. 1992, you said you wrote this piece saying, "Time to rethink immigration," which I remember well. At the time, National Review really was a forum for conservatives to think through what it meant to be conservative. So that was a significant piece at the time. And

• 4:41Tucker Carlson?

  then you said Bill Buckley, the then editor William F. Buckley Jr. stabbed you in the back. Can you can you tell a story? What happened exactly?

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Oh, sure. I was never on staff at National Review, but I was what they called a senior editor, and I roll for it a lot. And in 1992, I wrote this very long cover story, it's about 14,000 words. Bill had retired as the editor then. He was just circling around in the background. But the then editor, John O'Sullivan, ran with the went with this story. And for about five years, we basically directly challenged the official conservative line, which was that immigration is good, more immigration is better, illegal immigration is very good. That's what the Wall Street Journal said and still saying, as far as I can tell.

• 5:25Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  And then, at the end of five years in 97, Bill just abruptly, without any warning at all, fired O'Sullivan and purged the magazine of immigration pages and basically told us to shut up about it, told them all to shut up about immigration, which of course they all eagerly did. He put the Washington Bureau in charge, Rich Lowry and Panuru and so on. And so for them, for two, three years, you know, you couldn't get even the basic facts about immigration out to the public. But then the internet came along and, you know, rescued us. And I started vida.com.

• 6:01Tucker Carlson?

  May I ask you a question and explain why that happened? Why do you think Bill Buckley, who was retired and letting John O'Sullivan run it, another Brit, I think?

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Yes, indeed.

• 6:12Tucker Carlson?

  Who now lives in Budapest? Why do you think that he stepped back in from retirement to shut down that conversation specifically?

• 6:22Speaker 02

  Well, of course, I've had 20 odd years to think about that. And the answer is, over the time my ads has evolved, at the thought of the time, I thought he was, he was just jealous. This is actually the thing you see. I was a financial journalist for a long time. It's a thing you see often in the corporate world. Entrepreneurs will come back and purge the fire, the managers that they put in to replace themselves. Sure jealousy. I think the congressional Republicans hated us talking about immigration because it upsets the donors. And I think that was influential with Bill. He liked being lionized by the then Republican majority in the House. And I

• 7:01Tucker Carlson?

  So the Republican leadership didn't like it, Newt Gingrich, et cetera, who was ascendant, came in in 94, to much, much fanfare, achieved not a lot, but they're the ones who pressured Bill Buckley, you believe?

• 7:16Speaker 02

  I think that was true, but I also think that the neo cons in New York hated it, hated the line. And Bill was very, very leery of offending the neo conservatives, people like Norman Pohoros and so on. And I think they pressured him to, to, I mean, I know they pressured him to get rid of John.

• 7:37Tucker Carlson?

  Now, why would they care?

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Oh, because at that point, the neo conservatives, who predominantly Jewish faction, they had this sort of Ellis Island view of, of America. They wanted to, they're extremely frightened of the white majority in America becoming self conscious because they feel as Jews that it will leave the mountain in the cold.

• 8:03Tucker Carlson?

  Despite the fact there's never been any Real antisemitic movement in the United States, there's no evidence that white people becoming aware of the fact that they're white is a threat to Jews. I don't know where that comes from.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Right. And I actually think there's a certain sort of jealousy there, you know, they didn't like. I mean, if you look at ideas on the right in the recent years, a lot of them originated out of neoconservatism. But here was a non neoconservative faction, we would have, we would have then described ourselves as paleoconservatives, coming up with a whole idea and a whole issue. Because the immigration issue was completely dormant from, from 1968, when the Hart Salar Act kicked in, until the early nineties. But there was no discussion of it at all. I actually went through National Review's archives and I found that they hadn't discussed immigration at all between, between the passage of the 65 Act until the early nineties. People simply didn't realize what was going on.

• 8:55Tucker Carlson?

  What, why?

• 8:58Speaker 02

  I, I think there are a couple of reasons. One is that, you know, when, when there was a pause in immigration from the 20, from 1924 to about 1968. So a whole generation grew up when there was essentially no immigration at all into the US. And, and, you know, but, and so they, it just wasn't an issue to them. And you know what happens with, it's like an academic life. We have an academic theory. It's not that it conquers the other theories by being better and, and better arguments. It's just that the people who hold the earlier theories die off and they're replaced by younger. And that's true for politicians too. A whole generation of politicians had never thought about this issue. And I include Ronald Reagan in that. I mean, it simply wasn't an issue when he was growing up.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  And that's why he was haughtswaldered by this, the Urquhart amnesty in 1986. He actually genuinely thought that they would, they would, the ruling, the permanent government would exchange amnesty for serious enforcement. Whereas in fact, he just took amnesty and didn't, didn't enforce the law against illegal immigration at all.

• 10:00Tucker Carlson?

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• 11:09Speaker 03

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• 13:02Tucker Carlson?

  Flash Tucker. But I'm a little bit fixated on William McBuckley because he was such a dominant force.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  Let me just back up a second.

• 13:12Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  What I think now is, I think, looking at National Review now, it's obviously donor-driven.

• 13:18Tucker Carlson?

  It's, it's. Oh, of course.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  And, and, and we weren't aware of that in the 90s. And we weren't, I wasn't even aware, I didn't think about donors and role in politics, really, until some years later than that. We, we thought that people just got up and, and argued, and you just simply didn't realize how dominant, uh, how important the donors are. I think now, looking back at it, particularly given, I mean, Bill was not as wealthy as he wanted people to think. And he depended on National Review financially to a considerable extent. It financed his lifestyle to a considerable extent. And I think.

• 13:50Tucker Carlson?

  When he depended on the magazine?

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I think that's.

• 13:53Tucker Carlson?

  I think the rest of us thought the magazine depended on him.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, that, that's what he wanted you to think. But in fact, he did, he did finance his lifestyle to a considerable extent. And, and.

• 14:02Tucker Carlson?

  The winters in Stade and the sailing across the Bermuda race and.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  I don't know how much, but there's, there's, there was certainly quite a lot that, that was deducted or, or expensed, uh, to, to, to the magazine. In any case, uh, he, he just didn't want to disrupt the donor flow. And the more I think about that, the more I think that probably was the reason.

• 14:23Tucker Carlson?

  Interesting. So that's basically a species of fraud.

• 14:31Tucker Carlson?

  I don't mean against the tax code. I mean, it's intellectual fraud. It's you're making the case that you believe these things because they are true, when in fact, you're taking money to say them.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  I think Bill actually, my experience with Bill is that he actually was not very interested in politics. When he went to his dinners he used to put on on 73, 73rd Street, it was very hard to get him to talk about politics. He was always wandering off in odd directions. And you can see that in the way he lived his life latterly, I mean, writing these books and so on. He just, he just basically didn't do any serious thinking about politics. Initially, he was very, I have a letter from him actually, saying how wonderful my immigration story was.

• 15:13Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Yes, and it was, you know, I forget what he said, but he said it was beautifully organized, and beautifully argued, and the tone was perfect, and that sort of stuff. He never admitted that he changed his mind on immigration. He just, he just said, told them to stop covering it. But the official, official line of the magazine was that immigration was questionable. They just didn't do any journalism on it. Which is how he was about drug legalization. He was officially in favor of drug legalization, but he very rarely let the magazine write about him.

• 15:45Tucker Carlson?

  Huh, why?

• 15:50Speaker 02

  I guess he was balancing a number of, a number of issues. In the case of immigration, you know, I think his dawn is, immigration was a very unfashionable subject in the other time.

• 15:59Tucker Carlson?

  I remember.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  And, I think as we were talking earlier, I was watching Ben Shapiro on, on

• 16:12Tucker Carlson?

  Meghan Kelly.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  Meghan Kelly, yes. And he was attacking you for some reason or other, I forget what. And he was saying that, then he suddenly says, but Tucker's good on some things, he's good on immigration. Well, as I understand it, you're interested in the idea of immigration moratorium and so on.

• 16:27Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  This news to me, that's what Ben Shapiro thinks is good about immigration.

• 16:31Tucker Carlson?

  Right, well.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  I mean, just about five or six years ago, in National Review, he called me a white supremacist. But basically, for no other reason than than than advocating immigration reduction. And those days, if you're back in the early days, if you if you advocated immigration control, you immediately suspect, you immediately suspect of being anti Semite, even though there's no direct connection at all. And now they've changed their mind on this, they've fallen back. I mean, Norman, before he died, I was I was very friendly with Norman, he didn't talk to me for the last 10 years of his life. But he he died just a few weeks ago, at the age of 95. But just before he died, he gave an interview in which he said he changed his mind on immigration. He thought there was a limit to how much immigration could be absorbed. And he credited John O'Sullivan, the editor of National Review, for helping change his mind.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  He didn't he didn't mention me.

• 17:19Tucker Carlson?

  Why didn't he speak to you for the last 10 years of his life?

• 17:22Speaker 02

  Well, I just, I think he just decided that that I was a suspicious character. And I deviated on the immigration issue and and he suspected. I had the habit of calling the National Review the Goldberg Review, because at that stage, briefly, it was dominated by John John O'Goldberg, who I think is a complete fraud and lightweight. And of course, was absolutely boneheaded on the immigration issue.

• 17:45Tucker Carlson?

  Well, he's certainly a lightweight. I it's hard to know what he believes or doesn't, but he certainly, I mean, if John O'Goldberg is like your intellectual force, then you've been degraded.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Well, Norman actually emailed me and said, you've got to stop calling National Review the Goldberg Review, because it sounds anti Semitic. Actually, my understanding is that Goldberg is not is not technically, his mother was his mother was a was a gentile.

• 18:10Tucker Carlson?

  I knew her, she was a great person, actually.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  I reply, I replied and said that, and he didn't get mad. But he just gradually suspected more, he suspected me more and more of thought crime. And Norman was an extremely passionate man. He didn't.

• 18:23Tucker Carlson?

  So famously.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  He didn't, he didn't, he didn't socialize with, with, with, with, with opponents. I miss him. I, I, I really liked him. I was sorry.

• 18:36Tucker Carlson?

  No, there was a lot about him that was appealing. He was a man of great energy and I admired him in a lot of ways. Kind of repulsive in others, but, but certainly he was not standing still. He was constantly in, in motion and.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  And I actually, I actually owe his wife an introduction a lot because she, she was the chair thing of the Philadelphia Society and she, which is a conservative affinity group. And she invited me to speak on immigration.

• 19:00Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  In, in, I guess, two thousand and five. And that's where I met, my, my first wife had just died. And that's where I met my current law wife, Lydia, who of course was running the Vida Foundation with me. She was the publisher of Vida.com. And you've had her on, of course.

• 19:14Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, of course. And I'm, and I'm a fan. She's a brave woman and a smart one. May I ask what happened to your relationship with Bill Buckley?

• 19:25Speaker 02

  Um, I, uh, when he fired John Sullivan, I was the only one of the entire staff who went in and asked, why did you fire him?

• 19:34Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 19:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, the official line was John had resigned to write a book. That was because John was very popular with, with National Review base and the immigration was, was, was, was very popular. And so he didn't want to admit that he was dumping them both. Uh, so he got really ruffled because he wasn't used to being challenged and, and said, he resigned to write a book and resigned to write a book. And, and we basically never spoke to each other after that. I mean, uh, I was constructively dismissed from National Review. I got a letter telling me I was no longer a senior editor, which was actually very, very important in, in the National Review world because it was run like a fraternity.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  And if you, if you were senior, you were automatically invited to all kinds of events and so on, and to his dinners and all that kind of thing. And, and I never offered again.

• 20:27Tucker Carlson?

  Why did they dismiss you, do you think?

• 20:29Speaker 02

  Oh, well, I'm sure that the Washington Bureau was always upset with the immigration issue. Because it embarrassed them. It embarrassed them in Washington Cocktail Partners, you know, and he put the Washington Bureau in charge of the magazine, so I'm sure they will be happy to do it. And they didn't want to add about immigration. And I think also, you know, mud sticks, Tucker.

• 20:52Tucker Carlson?

  Mud sticks, yeah.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  And this constant whispering campaign of how I was a racist and anti semi for race and these issues, it sticks. And it has stuck. So that, you know, even though Benjamin Shapiro is now in favor of just talking about immigration, I don't see him apologizing to me.

• 21:10Tucker Carlson?

  No, well, of course not. He doesn't care about you at all or other people at all.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  I had a really interesting experience recently. We, Lydia and I were at an ISI book event and I bought Matthew Connetti's book. I mean, I actually bought it. I put down my, it's a rotten, awful book about, about the conservative movement. Says that I was born in Cairo, which obviously wasn't.

• 21:33Tucker Carlson?

  He's a silly, I mean, it's all, this is Bill Kristol's son-in-law.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  Bill Kristol's son-in-law, that's the point. I took it up to him and I like to collect inscribed books. In fact, I forgot to bring your book, I'm sorry. But, and he wouldn't sign it.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  He wouldn't inscribe it. He said, I have nothing to say to you. And the really weird thing about this is that.

• 21:50Tucker Carlson?

  On what ground? I mean, I don't think you've ever said, that I'm aware of, an anti Semitic thing in your life. I don't think you're an anti Semite.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  Well, Connetti is a convert, of course, so he's probably very, you know, particularly ardent. But, but the weird thing about this was that Connetti had actually written some quite sensible things on immigration, which is odd when you think of his father-in-law as.

• 22:12Tucker Carlson?

  But he said to your face, I won't inscribe your book because I have nothing to say to you?

• 22:16Speaker 02

  Essentially, yes, that's right. He signed it, but he wouldn't inscribe it. And then he said, I have nothing to say to you.

• 22:24Tucker Carlson?

  Wow. Yeah, you, I mean.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  It's kind of surprising, and we live out there in Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia. We don't have to face this stuff, but I guess when you in DC, you faced it all the time.

• 22:33Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, well, I left. But I also believe in forgiveness, and that's kind of the difference, I think. I mean, we're commanded to believe in forgiveness and to treat people as human beings.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Norman didn't believe that.

• 22:43Tucker Carlson?

  No, I'm very aware of that. Very aware of that.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  It was a principle position with him.

• 22:48Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, it's a principle, but it's a satanic principle that you can't forgive other people. That is, you're not forgiven if you don't. So that's my view. But wow, what, that's amazing. So you were just cast out.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Well, the thing is, he'd already signed the book, so I couldn't give it, he signed it and described, I couldn't give it back. Get my money back. Whereas conversely, Yoram Hazony was also there. And, you know, Hazony, as you know, banned us from his National Conservative Conference because he said he didn't think we were appropriate. And so we have, and we had a series of bitter exchanges in B. But Hazony was perfectly friendly, and he signed the book and inscribed it, and we chatted about children and grandchildren and so on.

• 23:28Tucker Carlson?

  Yoram Hazony is a very courtly man, a very charming and warm person, I'll say. I had lunch with him once, and I don't agree with him on a lot, but I was, I liked him. It's hard not to like him.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  I think he's very good. A lot of the stuff he says about conservatism is exactly accurate.

• 23:45Tucker Carlson?

  I think that's right.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  Moving it away from being classical liberalism. The problem, of course, is that he's caught in this bind because he doesn't want to admit that Israel is an ethno-state. Because he doesn't want America to have ethno-state. He wants them to be a civic nationalist state.

• 24:06Tucker Carlson?

  What do you mean, won't admit? I mean, Israel is, by its own description, an ethno-state.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, but he keeps arguing that.

• 24:14Tucker Carlson?

  That's not an attack, by the way, at all.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I've never been able to get him to explain how you cannot say that there's a racial component to Israel, when the whole, when, of course, the Jewish religion is racially based. I mean, that's why they have the matrilineal principle, where you've got to have a Jewish mother. And I've never seen him respond to that. And I don't think he can because he he's he doesn't want to encourage straight up white nationalism in America.

• 24:44Tucker Carlson?

  For years, you've been told this is not happening and you're a bigot for thinking it is. But it is happening. Mass migration is reshaping the West completely. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's a fact. Different people live here now. You're not a racist for noticing that. You're just using your senses. Again, it's not a theory. It's the biggest fact of this or any generation in a thousand years. The replacement is real. European governments aren't just tolerating mass migration. They're encouraging it. They're funding it. They hate their populations and they want new populations. We've got a new documentary on this called Replacing Europe, following the world's deadliest migration route. Our film makers follow what nobody wants you to see. They spoke directly with migrants, locals, officials who admit what the public

• 25:29Tucker Carlson?

  has never told. It's not ideological. It's reality. This is happening. It's destroying the West and our cameras caught it. Replacing Europe. That's the doc, only on TCN now.

• 25:44Speaker 00

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• 26:45Tucker Carlson?

  I just want to be clear about my own views. Not that it matters, but just because I hold them sincerely, I have no problem with the fact that Israel is an ethno-state. It's their country. Have whatever state you want, as far as I'm concerned. But it is an ethno-state by definition. The people who founded it were not religious. A lot of them were atheists and they identified as Jewish racially. Again, no, I have no problem with that at all. That's their country. But to say it's not an ethno-state is not only a lie, but it's like a ludicrous lie. And, and he won't admit that?

• 27:17Speaker 02

  That's my, my reading of what it was only saying. But it's one of the situations where his civic nationalism is so intense that it might just as well be ethnic nationalism for the US. But a lot of things he says about immigration to the US are excellent.

• 27:31Tucker Carlson?

  Right, I agree. And I'm not attacking Yom Azonyi at all, whom I like. But that's dishonest because Israel is an ethno-state. And you should just tell the truth about, especially about obvious things, right?

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Well, it's what I will call double think, isn't it? It's double think. It's you've got to believe two contradictory things at once. And it's necessary to operate in large parts of political world.

• 27:55Tucker Carlson?

  Interesting. So, but why wouldn't people who support an ethno-state in Israel want one here? I mean, what, why would they object to that so strongly?

• 28:05Speaker 02

  I mean, of course, this is the profound question about the role, the American Jewish role in the American immigration debate. They're overwhelmingly pro-immigration. However, having said that, you know, typically, if you know anything about Jewish intellectual life, you know, there are going to be people on the other side. And some people are very hard on the other side.

• 28:21Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, and I know a lot of them. That's why I would never be anti-Semitic because I, I mean, you can generalize, you know.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  I mean, I have, I have a hunch that Stephen Miller, who of course is an aide to Trump. I think he's the deputy chief of staff or something. He's going to be the first Jewish president. I say this because it's hard to, the prospect horrifies people so much. But he's liked Israeli in Britain. Benjamin Disraeli, of course, was Jewish, but converted to Episcopalianism. He was converted by his father to very early age. His father, his father converted, took the whole family over to being Episcopians. He basically invented the Conservative Party and reinvented the Conservative Party in 19th century, came up with in Britain. He came up with a complete grand strategy for it, based on the empire and imperial patriotism and so on. And that really carried the party through for the next.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Eighty, ninety years, a couple of generations, the Conservative Party in Britain was a nationalist party and because of being a nationalist party, got a very substantial working class vote because it is the blue collar workers who are the patriots and the Conservative Party was ever to tap into that. Miller's done the same thing. He's invented a grand strategy for the Republican Party, which he desperately doesn't want to take up because it's run by cowards and fools. But he thinks they should move towards, you know, restabilizing America's ethnic balance and basically eliminating this immigrant inflow, which is causing all

• 29:59Speaker 02

  kinds of problems for lower skilled workers and ultimately changing the racial balance. And he's not afraid to admit that. And not only that, but

• 30:10Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think anyone should be afraid.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  He has the cunning to survive the Kushner White House.

• 30:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  I mean, that was really extraordinary because Jared Kushner, of course, bleeds exactly the opposite. He's basically a liberal New York Jew. But for some reason, Miller was able to survive with him. I couldn't have done that. So I wouldn't have abandoned Jeff Sessions in the way that he did. Sessions was his close aide and was his mentor. And then Miller abandons him when Trump turns against him. I couldn't have done that either. But then he's in the White House and I'm not.

• 30:40Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, no, I think those are all fair and true observations. It's interesting, though, the degree to which the immigration project is a demographic project. I mean, it has almost explicitly been an effort to make America less white. They'll say that. It's not controversial. I mean, you could prove it on video. Didn't even bother to, because I think most people watching this already know that. Its architects, starting with Teddy Kennedy in 1965, basically just said, ultimately admitted, the whole point is to make America

• 31:17Tucker Carlson?

  less white, a non-majority white country. Why is it so hard for conservatives to say the same? If Democrats are saying we want America to be non-white, why can't conservatives say? That that's what their motive is.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  I have to say that Kennedy didn't say that when he was.

• 31:37Tucker Carlson?

  At first.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  Yes, when he was the floor manager of the Heart of the Cellar, he gave a very explicit assurance, he loved to quote, saying that this will not alter the racial balance of America, and it will not mean a million people you will be coming in, whereas in fact, a million people you are coming in.

• 31:52Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  And that's one of the reasons I bitterly regret not having to be there, even though I have my own Peter Brimmo, peterbrimmo.com sub stack. That's not the same kind of voice, because we've got to get legal immigration to the debate here. I think what Trump has done on illegal immigration is remarkable, and more remarkable than people realize, but we're not doing anything on legal immigration. But I'm sorry, that means I've not answered your question. What was your question?

• 32:19Tucker Carlson?

  Well, my question was, the whole point of the project was not to like feed a desperate need for low skilled labor. That definitely no longer exists now with AI. And it wasn't to improve America. It's completely destroyed America, destroyed the state of California.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Well, when I was writing my, the book I wrote on immigration, Alien Nation, that flowed out of my cover story, the 95 book, which Harper Collins refused to reprint, I quoted a man called Earl Rabb, who was a Jewish activist and so on, and he explicitly said that Jews were in favor of mass non-white immigration, because it makes the rise of

• 33:00Speaker 02

  I didn't use the term neo-Nazi, but that's what he meant, you know, party in America impossible. In fact, he does the exact opposite, it makes it more like.

• 33:08Tucker Carlson?

  Well, exactly.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  But he did say that. And quite calmly said that this is why most Jews favor.

• 33:17Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's also made the rise of hard edged anti-Israel politics.

• 33:22Tucker Carlson?

  And I'm not pro-Israel especially, but I don't, I don't hate Israel.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:27Tucker Carlson?

  A lot of people who hate Israel are immigrants. So.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Well, look at the New York, New York Marjorie Ray.

• 33:32Tucker Carlson?

  Well, exactly.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Van Damme won because the immigrant vote.

• 33:34Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly, exactly.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  Native born, the native born American New Yorkers, and God knows, look at who they are, for God's sake. I mean, I mean, but they voted for, against Van Damme.

• 33:44Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Uh, so, so they've really screwed themselves up.

• 33:47Tucker Carlson?

  This hasn't worked.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 33:49Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, if, if your interest was to keep antisemitism and really kind of crazy anti-Israel sentiment to a minimum, and I agree with that, I'm against antisemitism, I'm against like basing our life on hating Israel. That seems kind of lunatic. If that was your goal, I mean, you literally achieved the opposite result. Is that, is that fair to say?

• 34:09Speaker 02

  Not for the first time. Yeah.

• 34:11Tucker Carlson?

  Well, fair, fair.

• 34:14Tucker Carlson?

  So maybe, maybe that wasn't the goal. I don't know. I'm just guessing here. Maybe there was another goal that we don't understand, but.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Well, I think a lot of it is deeply emotional and, and, and can't be analyzed intellectually. There's just a whole series of, of reflexes.

• 34:31Tucker Carlson?

  Or spiritual.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  But you know, um, uh, one of the reasons, we know that the, uh, the New York Attorney General attack on us, uh, was, was, was basically instigated by the Anti-Defamation League. Uh, because a journalist we know actually got the ADL to, to admit this, that they had gone to, letitia James and told her to take, if he dare out. And we say to ourselves, why us Jews? What have we ever done to you? You know, we have the Berkeley Springs Castle in West Virginia, which we bought as a conference venue, because we're not allowed to have conferences anywhere else. The donor was Jewish. We have, we have, we had all kinds of Jewish donors and all kinds of Jewish writers. But that doesn't make any difference, uh, to the ADL apparently.

• 35:14Tucker Carlson?

  So what are you going to do when the power goes out? Not theoretically, but actually in real life. Most Americans used to think total power failure only happened in unstable countries, places without functioning governments, places you only went to on vacation. This is the US, people would say, "That could never happen here." Okay, well, then it did. Remember Texas during the deep freeze? The grid collapsed. People were left without heat. Some froze to death in their own homes. So the truth is obvious now. The government can't guarantee you electricity. And when things go wrong, no one's coming to save you. That's why Last Country Supply offers the Grid Doctor.

• 35:55Tucker Carlson?

  It's a 3,300-watt battery backup system built to keep your entire household running when everything else stops. It powers full-size appliances, medical devices, essential tools. You can use it indoors. It's totally safe. There's no fuel. There are no fumes. There's no noise. We have one at home, and it's awesome. It's got 15 output ports. It charges from the wall when you have power, from your car when you don't. It's got a solar panel, so the sun can charge it. It's built to withstand EMPs, lightning, solar flares. It is durable as hell. So taking care of yourself and the people you love, the people you're responsible for, is your job. Get power you can trust always. Get the Grid Doctor today at our very own LastCountrySupply.com.

• 36:39Tucker Carlson?

  Our business, this is the power supply that we use. LastCountrySupply.com.

• 36:43Speaker 00

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• 37:14Speaker 05

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• 37:43Tucker Carlson?

  Now to what happened to you and to Vidaire. So you're expelled both from National Review and you leave your old life as a financial journalist behind. I think it's a fair summary. And then you create this organization called Vidaire, named after Virginia Dare, the first British child born in the Americas. And it becomes successful. It becomes big. And it's not antisemitic. It's not racist. It's against changing America's population through immigration. Is that a fair summary?

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I stayed in financial journalism for a long time. Vidaire was kind of a mood lighting project.

• 38:17Tucker Carlson?

  How'd you pull that off?

• 38:19Speaker 02

  It was very difficult. And it caught into, eventually became impossible. And I was fired both from Forbes and from CBS, what used to be CBS Market Watch, became Dow Jones Market Watch. In both cases, it was during turn downs in the markets. But I happened to be the one, you know, they chose to fire me rather than people who were frankly less valuable to them. So it did, it did in the end, terminate my career in the mainstream media. But on the other hand, you know, we were developing Vidaire very rapidly and it became quite a big deal. And 2019, we raised nearly $4 million, which enabled us to buy the castle and do all kinds of other things.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Of course, we've, you know, we've, it's been utterly destroyed now. I've been, I've been. Out of it, we know he was suspended two years ago and I resigned. So, you know, I'm supporting the family now on pension pensions and savings and so on. And I do have a family. I have minor children. So it's kind of irritating.

• 39:22Tucker Carlson?

  Irritating doesn't begin to describe it. So tell the story, if you would. You're running Vidaire and somehow Letitia James is the

• 39:33Speaker 02

  She's the

• 39:34Tucker Carlson?

  Turnover of New York.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  Vidaire is a 501(c)(3) charity and is registered in New York in 1999 entirely because I then pro bono lawyer happened to be barred in New York and therefore that was convenient for him. And this was when, you know, the Republican governor of New York and nobody ever heard of lawfare. Nobody heard it. The idea of lawfare, this kind of exploitation of regulatory power never occurred to anybody at that point. Well, because we're registered in New York, even though we don't operate in New York, she was able to demand that we one day woke up and found we got these massive subpoenas, demanding all kinds of documents, including all our email going back

• 40:17Speaker 02

  to 2016. Of course, that was a huge problem because if she got that, she would have the names of our donors and our anonymous pseudonymous writers. And I had people writing for me whose career would have been ruined if they were fired.

• 40:30Tucker Carlson?

  Let me ask him what, okay, so you're not domiciled in New York, you're not operating in New York, you're not, nothing.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  But we're registered in New York. That's the key point.

• 40:37Tucker Carlson?

  But the, but the 501(c)(3) is registered in New York.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  That's right. That's right.

• 40:40Tucker Carlson?

  But you're not.

• 40:40Speaker 02

  And you can't get out. You've got, you've got to have her permission to get out. And, you know.

• 40:44Tucker Carlson?

  You can't change states?

• 40:46Speaker 02

  No, we can only with her permission. And in some circumstances, if we were to set up another 501(c)(3) and start operating after that, she would claim that we were transferring assets and she could just claim jurisdiction over that. It's a huge mess. And we had very expensive lawyers looking at it for a long time, but even before she came along and hit us with this.

• 41:04Tucker Carlson?

  But may I ask on what grounds she issued subpoenas to you in West Virginia?

• 41:08Speaker 02

  She doesn't have to give grounds. Uh, but what she said was she wanted to investigate the castle purchase, which we did in 2000, or more accurately, I should say, Lydia did it in 2000. Because, as you know, we had maybe a dozen, depends how you count, but a dozen, 15 conferences canceled. Hotels would accept a booking, then the castle, since they came under pressure from the left. And we realized we were never going to be able to have a conference. So we bought our own venue. And she wants to investigate that. Well, of course, all that, all that purchase was very carefully lodged, precisely because we knew she would want to investigate it. But it doesn't make any difference. She demands that, and she demanded that, and she demanded all kinds of other things. The really killing

• 41:50Speaker 02

  thing for us was demanding all the email. We had to turn over more than a million documents. We, we, we, the really killing thing was demanding the email because we know if she got the writers' names and the donors' names, she would release them. She did that with Nikki Haley. They leaked her, the donors to her PAC. And the paper that, the papers that you saw that gave the names of Nikki Haley's donors were actually, the letterhead was the New York Attorney General's office.

• 42:18Tucker Carlson?

  But can I?

• 42:19Speaker 02

  But of course, nobody ever came after her.

• 42:21Tucker Carlson?

  I'm, I'm just confused. Did, did she have evidence she committed a crime?

• 42:25Speaker 02

  No, she was looking for evidence. And she's not found it, but she's charged us anyway. Well, she hasn't charged us. It's not a criminal thing, but she's, she's, she's suing us anyway over it.

• 42:34Tucker Carlson?

  My impression, my guess, my guess, is that the Trump administration will begin to ignore the courts in some cases. And people will say that this is the beginning of fascism and a takeover of, of the destruction of our legal system. And, you know, that's a fair point.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  No, it's not, it's not a fair point.

• 42:55Tucker Carlson?

  Well, exactly.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  It's been destroyed.

• 42:57Tucker Carlson?

  That's exactly what I'm about to say. Exactly. It has already been destroyed. And when the Attorney General of the state you don't live or operate in can destroy you because she doesn't like your opinions, then we don't have a functioning legal system, period. And this happened before Trump. So I just want to say that.

• 43:13Speaker 02

  The wonderful, I mean, one of the wonderful things, back up a second. One wonderful thing that has happened within the last year is that a very enterprising journalist actually dug up a speech made to the ADL. They had a conference called Taking Hate to Court by Rick Sawyer, who is one of Letitia James operatives. And he is the one who's leading the charge against us. And he said at this, to this conference, that hate speech, that's us, hate speech is protected by the First Amendment, but there are ways around that. All you have to do, if it's a charity and you have jurisdiction, is start issuing subpoenas. He said it sucks to be sued, just subpoena them to death.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  And of course, that's exactly what he's done to us. You know, they inflicted over a million, nearly a million and a half dollars in out-of-pocket costs for lawyers and so on, let alone the hundreds of hours that lady had to spend digging through documents and so on, which meant that she couldn't fundraise or do any of the work. They just, they just destroy you through, through the process of the punishment, they just destroy you that way. So he's actually openly admitting this. So when we saw this, we thought, oh, it's all over. They've obviously admitted that what they're doing is not, is political, it's not because of some regulatory concern. But we've been totally unable to get the federal court to pay attention, to pay attention to this. We're trying again now. We have, we have what they call 983 action against Letitia James and the operatives personally.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  And we're trying to raise the First, this First Amendment question there. But, but the courts have been extremely resistant to looking at it.

• 44:46Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I mean, if the Attorney General or staff are admitting they're destroying you because they disagree with your opinions, it seems to me that any federal court would take that up because that's a foundational question.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  That's what we thought.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  But in fact, they didn't, the first time we did it, they'd caught simply dodging a technical issue. They came up with a technical excuse to dodging. And we have to try and again now, but you know, we just have to hope for the best. I think one of the things that is clear to me, I mean, is from looking at our litigation experience, which is now considerably goes far beyond this situation. Another case I'm aware of is that there seems to have been some message gone out from Judge Central that anything that's quote unquote in the white nationalist has got to be suppressed by any means necessary. In our case, the

• 45:45Speaker 02

  classic example is we had an hotel cancellation in Colorado Springs. And they, while Cora was not with them, because they paid up the liquidated damages like men, and it was a lot of money. But they canceled because the mayor of Colorado Springs, who was a rhino, John Suthers, had said he wouldn't extend police protection to the conference. When, when the, you know, in other words, antifactor going and

• 46:12Tucker Carlson?

  He wouldn't extend police protection?

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Yes, that's right. Now, this is an issue that's

• 46:16Tucker Carlson?

  He's threatening to kill you.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 46:18Tucker Carlson?

  And who is this?

• 46:19Speaker 02

  His name was John Suthers. He was the mayor of, he was the Republican

• 46:22Tucker Carlson?

  John Suthers, the mayor of Colorado Springs, basically threatened to allow mortal violence against you if you went to his

• 46:30Speaker 02

  That's right. Now, this is an issue which has been extensively litigated in the civil rights era. And the point was made very clear that by the courts, that the local authorities, the local governments have to extend protection to people's First Amendment rights. In other words, in those days, the black demonstrators would go into it, would have meetings in the city, and the local, the local whites would be angry about it. But those whites had to be kept away. The blacks had to be allowed to have their meetings. Well, we litigated this right up to the Supreme Court, and we refused to take the issue up. And there was a, the appeals court in Colorado rejected us, and I believe it had at least one, we had one good judge there who said this is obviously an attack on First Amendment

• 47:14Speaker 02

  rights, and but the other two, who I think were Republican appointees, to vote against us. So we lost, and we weren't able to, our initial lawyer, you know, civil rights litigation is extremely damaging if you're on the wrong side of it, I mean, there's enormous damages involved, so it was, it would, we would have, it would have been a huge sort of victory, and we would have, we would have actually been made whole in a very dramatic way. And our initial lawyer in Colorado Springs was so keen on this, it was so obvious, open and shut case, that he took it on contingency, you know. But as soon as he realized that the city was going to resist, he ran away, and we had to start paying our paying lawyers to litigate him.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Well, anyway, subsequently, there was a case in, before the Supreme Court, New York, I guess, versus Vollo, it's called the Vollo case, V U L L O, and this was a case where the communists in New York were putting pressure on insurance companies not to insure the NRA, and the NRA, NRA fought it, and, and it won. And in the, in the, in the decision, Katenti Jackson says, the NRA's case is strong, but it's essentially, I'm paraphrasing, it's not as strong as VDA's case, where they, where they were denied police, where the state agency, you know, were basically discriminated against them on political grounds. What's this? We never heard about this.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Well, it turns out that sixteen attorneys general had signed an amicus brief, saying that the appeals court in Colorado had been wrong to, to, to reject our attempt to, to sue Cardo Springs on a, on a civil rights theory, and that it was wrong for the following reasons, and for that reason, the Supreme Court should take up the NRA's case against, NRA versus Vollo, I guess it was called. And the, and the Supreme Court did take it up, and ruled against the state of New York, nine zero, which of course does us absolutely no good, whatever, because we're out all that money, and, you know, our First Amendment rights are not protected. I mean, in other words, there's a real determination on the part of, the NRA is apparently more partible than we are.

• 49:23Tucker Carlson?

  I'm a little bit confused just conceptually with the idea that white self-awareness is effectively illegal in the United States, whereas ethnic self-awareness in every other group is encouraged. Like, doesn't make any sense. Speak for myself, I'd rather live in a deracialized world where people think about it less because it does cause problems. But as long as you're encouraging identity politics, why do whites not get to have it? What is the answer?

• 49:52Speaker 02

  Well, it's completely hypocritical. It's because the people running the society are anti-white. And they've been able to persuade or intimidate the entire legal system to operate in an anti-white way. Anti-white in this case really means anti-American. I mean, because the whites are Americans, that's who Americans are. The people who signed that Declaration of Independence.

• 50:16Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. I did know that. And the purpose of the project, like, big picture, again, I keep going back to this, but I'm just, I am a little bit confused because this is the defining fact of our lives, is that whites around the world are being eliminated. And I would like to know why. Do you have any guesses?

• 50:36Speaker 02

  As I say, I think, Dr. I think it derives from emotion rather than a kind of rational calculation. I mean, if you look at what's happened in South Africa, or for that matter, in every big American black city, that's majority black. I mean, they can't want it to get into a situation where the water is putrid and nothing works and all that kind of thing. But they do. The purpose of a system is what it does. And the purpose of, you know, non-white government is to produce non-white government and non-white results. Unless, of course, you're Chinese. Because Singapore's run Japanese, they're run very efficiently.

• 51:16Tucker Carlson?

  They are. It's just interesting that people move here because it's a white country and we-

• 51:21Speaker 02

  We see it rotting into the ground, yes.

• 51:23Tucker Carlson?

  Well, all of us benefit, white and non-white benefit alike, from systems created by whites because they're more humane. They're more just, they're more fair, and they're much more efficient and cleaner, obviously.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  You know, I was looking at an interview, if I can interrupt you, I was looking at an interview, somebody sent me an interview I did for Forbes magazine with Milton Friedman. And I asked him, are there cultural prerequisites for capitalism? And he said, yes, I think, and as you know, he's a very fire-breathing libertarian, but he actually thought about this question. And he said that, you know, he said capitalism has really only ever worked in the English-speaking countries. He said, I don't know why this is so, but the fact has to be admitted, that there's some kind of a cultural underpinning for capitalism, what economists call a meta-market, a framework that a market operates.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  So the question is, why are these capitalists, why is the Chamber of Commerce suing to keep the H1B flow coming, when they know it's going to, when it's obviously going to produce people who don't do it like Mandami, who don't support capitalism and in fact hate it? What are the capitalists doing? Well, they're doing what Lenin said, they will sell us the rope with which we hang them.

• 52:40Tucker Carlson?

  And, I mean, that's demonstrable. It was true in 1917, it's true in 2026. Do you think it's the product of short-term thinking?

• 52:50Speaker 02

  Oh, in the case of business people, of course it is. The malign influence of the Wall Street Journal editorial page, a whole generation of business people actually believe all this nonsense. It's very hard to get out of their heads, because they're never allowed, I mean, they're never allowed criticism of immigration on the editorial page.

• 53:08Tucker Carlson?

  So you've referred repeatedly to the Wall Street Journal and also to Harper Collins, both of them are owned by the Murdoch family.

• 53:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 53:15Tucker Carlson?

  What's been your experience with the Murdochs?

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I spent well over a year working for Rupert in, I think it's 1990, on a ghosting his autobiography, which was never published. He changed his mind about it. But I have to say, he was extraordinarily generous to me personally, and he continued to be extraordinarily generous until very recently, when I guess I had been on the payroll quietly for a very long time, and they dropped me when you came under attack, because somebody looked into people on the payroll, and they found that this thought criminal's on the payroll. So, so at that point, at that point, I was dropped, but, but he was been, he's always posed him in extraordinarily generous to me.

• 54:01Tucker Carlson?

  That is my experience with Rupert Murdoch.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  And you know, that's not the case with a lot of these characters.

• 54:06Tucker Carlson?

  It's not.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  A lot of these models, people like Robert Maxwell and so on. I remember Rupert tell me once that he thought that Maxwell, Maxwell, as you know, fell off his yacht and, and, and after Canary Islands and, and was found dead. Rupert's theory was, i- i- this guy is such a jerk that the, the crew probably couldn't stand him anymore.

• 54:25Tucker Carlson?

  That is one theory. That is one theory. His lawyer told me that he was murdered by, uh, the Israelis for whom he worked. I don't know the truth of it, but he certainly had a lot of enemies and a lot of suspects in that crime.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  But I mean, he was personally, and that's, that's not the case of Rupert. He's not cruel. He's not, he's not vindictive.

• 54:40Tucker Carlson?

  Rupert is one of the most personally gracious people I've ever met in my life. I mean, he has perfect manners. He is truly Anglo in that way. And I never had a bad time with him, always agree, even when he fired me, I talked to him after and he couldn't have been nicer. So I, I strongly agree with your assessment, but he kept you on the payroll for decades?

• 54:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I had, I had five children born on his, his healthcare.

• 55:05Tucker Carlson?

  I had some born on his healthcare too. God bless you Rupert Murdoch.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  It was very good.

• 55:13Tucker Carlson?

  No, it's a, I mean, I don't know, the truth should be told, good and bad.

• 55:17Speaker 02

  So essentially I was a consoler for him and I, and he didn't, didn't consort with me at all. Uh, uh, because of course I would have told him to do the exact opposite of what he was asking. Uh, but, but, but I, I, I have no complaints about Rupert Murdoch.

• 55:30Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, no, I, I, I just want to say out loud, I agree with you a hundred percent through much experience, 25 years. Um, so, but it does, it does raise the question, as it does with Bill Buckley, then, you know, Rupert has great personal decency, um, that I, and I've seen it, but his, the editorial product is.

• 55:52Tucker Carlson?

  Aggressively opposed to American, basic American interests. So like, what is that? This guy likes America. He treats people around him well. There's a lot good to say about Rupert, but the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, Harper Collins, like all of them are engaged in a very aggressive campaign against America's interests. So why? Why is that? Do you know?

• 56:13Speaker 02

  Well, I think he handed over the sort of intellectual, the thinking part of a news corporation or 21st century fox, whatever it's called, whatever it's called now, to the neoconservatives. And so he took on a lot of neoconservative baggage at that point. I mean, they used to run an editorial every year saying that there ought to be a constitutional amendment, there shall be open borders, you know? I mean, it was really lunatic. And I believe that's still the case.

• 56:43Tucker Carlson?

  But why would he do that?

• 56:47Speaker 02

  First of all, because they're very good. They're extremely active, full of ideas, full of energy. They were extremely good in the Cold War.

• 56:54Tucker Carlson?

  They were. That's correct.

• 56:55Speaker 02

  You know, but that was then and this is now. And they have just simply haven't made the transition. But that's a major reason. I know, we're operating in New York and, you know, he was under a lot of suspicion there and has been a, you know, he had to show what he was, what Gore Vidal called was an okay guy. And he's showing that. It's genuine, though, with Rupert. I remember once talking to him about why he was so pro the initial Iraq war, the Gulf War. And he said, well, you know, it goes back to, it goes back to my father and Gallipoli. You know, his father played a major role in discrediting the Gallipoli

• 57:36Speaker 02

  expedition, which was this attack orchestrated by Winston Churchill. They're trying to break through the Dardanelles to get to Russia, to help Russia join the war. He said, so I'm just, I guess I'm just basically anti-Arab. I said, those aren't Arabs, they're Turks.

• 57:50Tucker Carlson?

  Well, exactly. Yeah.

• 57:51Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  They're all the same.

• 57:54Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, the Ottoman Empire is gone, and they've done an enormous amount of business in the Gulf with Arabs who helped finance his companies. So it's kind of a strange answer. His father was a famous journalist in Australia who broke the news of the disastrous Gallipoli, as he said. And he was very proud of that. But that's not much of an answer. Is it?

• 58:15Speaker 02

  Well, you're doing better than I do talking.

• 58:16Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know. I just, it's, you know, he's had such an effect on the world and on my life. And as I said five times, I've always liked him and still do, but it does, it's a mystery.

• 58:26Speaker 02

  Somebody said to me once, one of his, his henchmen in Australia said to me that Rupert is a businessman who wants to be a journalist and his father's a journalist who wants to be a businessman. Cause he did found a published empire in Australia.

• 58:41Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Sir Keith Murdoch. I think there's a lot in that. I mean, I think that we, you and I are ideologues, professional ideologues. But Rupert's not a professional ideologue.

• 58:53Tucker Carlson?

  No, that's.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  He's somebody who spends all of his time looking at numbers. He's a fantastic memory for numbers. He knows all, I can never remember any phone numbers. He remembers every phone number that's ever dialed, you know? And, and running an operation like, like his, it requires a tremendous attention to detail, tremendous application to going over pages and pages and pages of figures. And I don't know that he spends a great deal of time thinking about politics, except in a sporting sense. I mean, he likes to be, he likes, you know, he likes to be backing winners and, and, and winning elections and that kind of thing. But then he likes going to Australian football matches too. So, so I think it's kind of a similar thing.

• 59:32Tucker Carlson?

  That is a very smart analysis. I think you're, I think you're exactly, I think you just answered the question. He's outsourced a lot of the thinking to others. It's transactional. He's not tightly wedded to ideological details at all. But he's really allowed the Wall Street Journal editorial page to become a force of destruction.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  Well, I have to admit, it's many years since I've bothered to read the Wall Street Journal editorial page.

• 59:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, me too.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  I, I rely on people sending me things and they don't send much from the Wall Street Journal, or for that matter from National Review. Very rarely seem to see them.

• 1:00:06Tucker Carlson?

  Is National Review still in existence?

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  Apparently so, it has the Republican establishment to support.

• 1:00:16Tucker Carlson?

  It's like Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz and what do you know the editor of National Review?

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  I have the, me and Rich Lowry, he's gone for some time now, hasn't he? Hasn't he been done there for somebody else?

• 1:00:28Tucker Carlson?

  I haven't the faintest idea, but did you know him?

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  You know, I sat in rooms with him and I went to Bock's parts with him. I have absolutely no memory of him at all. He never said anything at all of significance. And I think that's why Bill had him, because he was completely malleable.

• 1:00:45Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I think that sounds, that sounds right. Sad, sad how much has been lost. So, speaking of lost, what happened in the end? If you, and I interrupted your story, my apologies, but to Vidaire.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  Vidaire is suspended, suspended in July of 2024 because we just ran out of money. The foundation is still in existence and Lydia is still, she's not paid, but she's still, she's still paying lawyers and dealing with, dealing with the legal situation, which continues to ramify. As I say, we're being sued personally and, and as a foundation.

• 1:01:17Tucker Carlson?

  On what grounds are you being sued?

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  Oh, there's a whole bunch of things. It's fundamentally technical issues to do with, with, to do with whether we had the right number of directors vote on the right number of things. It's all paperwork stuff. It's all stuff that could, would normally resolve with a phone call and possibly a refiling and stuff like that. They've not found any evidence of misappropriation of funds. And in fact, we moved to dismiss on this basis that although they huff and puff a lot, I mean, the 60 odd pages of rhetoric, but the actual charges, they haven't got anything.

• 1:01:51Tucker Carlson?

  Who is suing you?

• 1:01:52Speaker 02

  This is New York State.

• 1:01:54Tucker Carlson?

  So they're using tax dollars still to?

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, that's right. Enormous. They've spent a great deal of money on this. They also, very weirdly subpoenaed Facebook for all our records of all our dealings with Facebook. Well, Facebook banned us in 2020 as part of Zuckerberg's campaign to defeat Donald Trump. They thought we were, we were pro-Trump. So we actually hadn't, hadn't had any dealings with Facebook for more than two years when they came after us. And nevertheless, they got all these records off of Facebook.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  But they've done nothing with them, because of course there's nothing there. I think they genuinely thought that they would find that we were accepting money from the Russians.

• 1:02:35Tucker Carlson?

  The Russians?

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  To run bat farms. Do you remember that was the allegation with interference in the 2016? That the Russians were financing tiny little Facebook pages? And that's what, how they were manipulating the election. I think they genuinely believe that. I think one of the things about Democrats is that they really do believe their own propaganda. You know, they do think that the middle America's full of people wearing pointed hats.

• 1:03:00Tucker Carlson?

  We'll be at war with Qatar by the end, just because they've talked themselves into believing Qatar secretly controls America, as they did with Russia. Then we went to war with Russia and we're still at war with Russia over that.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  Right. The difficulty with this is that the Republicans believe the Democrat propaganda too. Which is why they won't, for example, appeal to the white vote. One of the things we did at VDA is we discussed and documented what we call the Saylor's strategy, as opposed to the Rove strategy. In 2000, Karl Rove was saying that the Republicans have got to do outreach to minorities. And it makes no sense statistically, because I think George Bush, George W. Bush got like 51% of the white vote. It's appalling performance. So Steve Saylor, who's one of our writers who we've had on, pointed out that if they could just increase that percentage of proportion of the white vote to what his father got, which was like 57, 58%,

• 1:03:55Speaker 02

  that would swamp and overwhelm any possible conceivable gain among minority voters. So we were saying, you should go for the white vote. And now this caused a great deal of trouble for us. I remember I got a letter from, an email from Jude Wanniski. Do you remember Jude Wanniski?

• 1:04:10Tucker Carlson?

  Very well.

• 1:04:12Speaker 02

  He said, Peter, you've gone too far. In other words, appeal to the white vote is not allowed. And look, it's just a question of arithmetic, you know, there's more of them than there are of minorities. And in case, to this day, the Republicans have still not done that. They've done it.

• 1:04:28Tucker Carlson?

  Why was Jude Wanniski mad?

• 1:04:31Speaker 02

  Jude was liberal, you know, way back when he was Liberal Democrat and he still had a lot of these reflexes. But it was just thought to be, people just got very emotional about it. You know, they, they, they think it's somehow illegitimate and they still do think it's illegitimate. For example, so we see in Virginia in this last election, you know, this Yonkin, who's a complete cypher as far as the Wall Street cypher as far as I can see, chooses has his success in the gubernatorial race. A candidate who's one, an immigrant, two, a woman, and three, black. She's a black Jamaican immigrant. And this is how he's going to appeal to the white vote. They're going to get people in the

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  south, south, or the halls of southwest Virginia out to vote for this black immigrant. It's ridiculous. And of course, they got a terrible share of the white vote. He was like 53%, and that's why they lost. But they would rather lose than than than to make a full out appeal to white.

• 1:05:27Tucker Carlson?

  I think that Tell was in the ability. So this was in, you know, I'm not saying a bad person, but Winsome Sears was not a good candidate. It was kind of an incapable candidate and and hard to hard to deal with. So like they chose her because she was black.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:05:47Tucker Carlson?

  Despite the fact that she wasn't good at her job.

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  And this is epidemic in the Republican Party.

• 1:05:51Tucker Carlson?

  What's epidemic in the country?

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  They've chosen so many Republicans in particular, they've chosen so many black candidates. They're about to do it here in Florida. The next gubernatorial candidate is likely to be black unless a miracle occurs. Why is that? They're just, they're just, they are just pixelated by this, transfixed by this, I'm trying to find the right word, hypnotized by this phenomenon of by the whole race question. This race whip is what it comes down to. They're just, they're just so afraid of being called racist that they'd rather lose for a black candidate. Than than than run a run a candidate to appeals appeals to whites. Trump did appeal to whites, not enough, but he does it in some kind of really implicit way. If you actually look at what Trump said, in spite of all the rhetoric, he's he's not said anything

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  that's explicitly white nationalist or anything. I see no sign that he's an old and civic nationalist, but for some reason, he's made some connection. I mean, all through West Virginia for that, you know, when while Biden was was was president, he he would see these these signs supporting Trump and and saying very rude things about Biden. And these are outside.

• 1:06:59Tucker Carlson?

  Very rude things about Biden, yeah.

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, this is this is a poor area. These these rundown trailer homes that you see with these Trump signs on them. For some reason, Trump made a connection with them. And it it's it's eerie. Now, on the other hand, he also had a disconnection with the other side. So you get this Trump derangement syndrome. But he was able to mobilize the white voters.

• 1:07:19Tucker Carlson?

  Why do you think that was?

• 1:07:20Speaker 02

  Which which part of it?

• 1:07:21Tucker Carlson?

  That he was able, working class whites love Trump. Trump is not a racist. I've never seen any sign of that at all and not a white nationalist at all and hardly a Christian nationalist. But he, for some reason, had an emotional connection with these voters. Why, do you know?

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  There's a concept in in sociology called implicit community, you know? Communities that that represent or appeal to some people without actually saying it explicitly. The classic example was NASCAR, for example. Why is NASCAR a white stronghold? Oh, everybody watching NASCAR is white. And the NASCAR operatives don't like this and they can't.

• 1:08:05Tucker Carlson?

  They hate it.

• 1:08:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, the cops are trying to diversify. Republican parties, a classic example of this. I mean, without ever without ever doing anything to deserve it, the Republicans have become absolutely unbeatable in Virginia. And you and I both remember that when Democrats were unbeatable in Virginia. You know, I forget when the last Republican, I also keep forgetting when the last Republican Democrat to carry West Virginia was, but it might have been it might have been Clinton. And now now it's just they're just the Democrats have ceased to exist in in West Virginia, even though this is a very poor state. Republicans prevailed by simply by virtue of not being Democrats.

• 1:08:38Tucker Carlson?

  Bill Clinton lost California in ninety two and won West Virginia. That's how much has changed.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, right. So there's something that's going on at a very deep psychological level, some kind of some kind of implicit implicit signaling. It's baffling.

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  Now, of course, he did say, you know, when he came down the elevator and said, well, just a few words about Mexico, about Mexican immigration, and never looked back. So he obviously struck a nerve there. So he did enough to strike a nerve, and simply by raising immigration in this sort of rather, you know, I'm sure it drives Stephen Miller crazy, incoherent and peculiar and just constantly forgets his lines and says the wrong thing way that Trump does talk about immigration. But he did raise it. And of course, until then, it was, it's been driven out of Republican parties completely. I know, we wrote about it for 16 years.

• 1:09:30Tucker Carlson?

  You were fired over it, right?

• 1:09:32Speaker 02

  Right. Just, you know, and we, there's, there's almost no sign that any Republican would pick it up. But then, when he did the damn broken, now, what I, big difference that I found, Tucker, is, is if you speak to grassroots Republicans, as opposed to elected Republicans, the consensus is overwhelming that immigration's got to be ended. The consensus is overwhelming. Whereas when I, when I got involved in this in the early 90s, a lot of Republicans never heard of this question. And they would assume, for example, that Republicans, that immigrants don't go on welfare to the same extent that native born do, which is completely wrong. It's completely reversed the truth. And it was back then. It was obvious that they were going back onto, into welfare and, and disproportionate numbers. But people didn't know. And the Wall Street Journal's not telling them. Well,

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  the Wall Street Journal still isn't telling them, but they do know now. And maybe we played a role in that.

• 1:10:22Tucker Carlson?

  Well, yeah. And it's, and it's had a, you know, such a complex and degrading effect on the native population. It hasn't been, it's not just a matter of competition in the job market, or my, you know, my tech job went to an Indian or something. It's, it's way more complicated than that. And as, you know, immigrant communities became totally dependent on federal benefits, it changed the incentive structure for native born communities. And a lot of them started going on it.

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:10:49Tucker Carlson?

  At higher rates also. So it just, it, it created a vortex that's hurt everybody, I think, especially the whites. Where does it go from here?

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  The big thing that has to, the next, if I was still running VDA and on my own website, peterbrimmo.com now, what I'm interested in is legal immigration. Legal immigration is still running at two million a year. No, that's, that puts the, the fact that the foreign-born population in the US has fallen by like two and a half million in the last, in just joined this year. That's an extraordinary number. I used to track it via the foreign-born population because it was the way of, of, of tracking the impact of immigration. It very rarely goes negative. It went negative briefly when Trump first got in because they were frightened of him and a lot of illegals left. And then towards the end, before COVID, it was falling because of various technical executive action measures that Trump had taken, the administration had

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  taken to tighten up on, on both legal immigration and illegal immigration. Now, now it's two and a half million, gone four and two and a half million, the foreign-born population. Even though we know a million, a million legal immigrants have come in, 90% of them colored, by the way, only about 10% white. So what we really need is an immigration moratorium. And I'm delighted to say that there is a bill proposed by Chip Roy in, in, in the, in the, in the House called, it's called the PAWS Act, calling for moratorium. And there's several other very interesting bills. There's a very good bill on both rights citizenship, and let me see, look at my list here. Secure

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  the border. I mean, in other words, they should set and codify Trump's, Trump's activities, tighten up on the, on, on the executive action, tighten up on the, on the southern border because we know that when the Democrats get in, they'll reverse it. But they won't be able to do that if, if, if it's, if it's in, in the law. They'll have to pass a, a law and have to admit what they're doing. The problem is that the White House seems to be, is not pushing any of these bills. And unless they do, I don't think that Speaker Johnson is going to raise anything. He's just gonna, you know, he's just going to lie, lie low. And I don't know why the White House isn't pushing these bills. Of course, it's got its hands full in Minnesota where

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  they clearly need to declare the Insurrection Act and that kind of thing. And they keep, they keep going around blowing up foreign, foreign governments and stuff like that and sinking ships and stuff. I mean, which it must be very entertaining, but I would really rather than focus Ending this, this, um, ending this immigration disaster. Uh, you know, it's, uh, whatever it is, 34 years now since I started writing about this in National Review. I'm 78. I can't wait much longer. I think we should just get on with it.

• 1:13:39Tucker Carlson?

  And you have a number of children who will inherit the country.

• 1:13:41Speaker 02

  That's really the point, you know, people occasionally, uh,

• 1:13:46Speaker 02

  yeah, uh, people say, okay, I get attacked all the time for, for not being, for being an immigrant. So my position is, you know, I'm a, so I'm doing a dirty job that Americans won't do. Talk about immigration, but the real reason is I have children here. My, my youngest child is 10 years old and, and, and she, uh, God knows what the country got to be like by the time she, she, she, um,

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  she's a grown woman.

• 1:14:09Tucker Carlson?

  Are you bitter?

• 1:14:11Speaker 02

  I, um, I've been extremely blessed in my personal life. Uh, even though my first wife died, so, uh,

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  I don't think, uh,

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  I, I think things could have worked out differently for me professionally, but in my personal life, I'm very blessed.

• 1:14:34Tucker Carlson?

  You don't seem angry. I think, cause what my read on it is what happened to you is grotesque and is evil. And, uh, not the kind of thing I thought would ever be allowed here. So, so I'm, I'm shocked, always shocked to hear your story.

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  I am, uh, I guess I am bitter at the conservative movement. People in the conservative movement, people I've known for, for 30, 40 years who basically haven't helped us, haven't defended us.

• 1:15:00Speaker 02

  The most prominent people who have defended us, Tucker, are you and Laura Loomer, your friend Laura Loomer.

• 1:15:07Speaker 02

  So that, that just shows how ecumenic like we are.

• 1:15:12Tucker Carlson?

  Uh, so Loomer helped you?

• 1:15:13Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. She, she, she, she supported us on, on Twitter when we were

• 1:15:17Tucker Carlson?

  Good for her.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  When we were trying to raise money for, to defend ourselves and she may, I have a gift saying go, which I just launched before Christmas, frankly, had to help us personally, cause of course we're now facing tremendous legal costs personally. And, and, and I believe she's helped us with that.

• 1:15:32Tucker Carlson?

  Have you received any help from the Department of Justice?

• 1:15:36Speaker 02

  We know that there are people in Department of Justice who are not directly. On the other hand, Trump can't stand Letitia James, quite rightly, and they've made various attempts to bring her to book for various crimes. For one thing, I mean, she's clearly guilty of massive mortgage fraud going back over 14 years. But you know, the obverse of lawfare run by Democrats, it's your notification by Democrats. They've been unable to indict her because basically because judges keep disallowing the prosecutors and because the grand joys won't indict Democrats. So I don't know where that stands. They also have an investigation into her deprivation

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  of Trump's civil rights in these scandalous cases, you know, this hush money case and the fraud case and so on, which should never have been allowed to go to court. The judges should have stopped, but of course, the judges are on the other side. And a judge is just trying to get, try to strike that down by disallowing the prosecutor. I mean, what's happening is these Democrats senators not only have the power to veto judicial appointments, federal judicial appointments, but they also have the power apparently to veto prosecutors, federal prosecutors. And they're apparently taking the position that they won't, they won't allow the appointment of a federal prosecutor if he's likely to prosecute Letitia James or any other Democrats, you know, and God knows there are enough Democrats out

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  there that need prosecuting. That's how they're protecting them. Many respects, you know, we're looking to slow motion civil war here. I mean, New York is essentially, Minnesota has essentially seceded from the Union. The whole legal systems are opposed to what the federal government is doing. Jonathan Turley, who is a First Amendment specialist, wrote recently that New York is the land that law forgot because normal legal norms simply don't apply there. What happens is what the Democrat operatives want. And of course, this is not a government under law. So in fact, New York is seceding from the union. And that's why I think ultimately we're going to have to go to the insurrection act.

• 1:17:46Speaker 02

  And we're going to have to go to the wholesale impeachment of judges. All these judges brought in by Biden.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  I think he had one or two white men, both of whom were gay, something like that. All the others are women and people of color and so on. And they delivered the most extraordinary rulings.

• 1:18:03Speaker 02

  Disregard on the plain letter of the law. Ultimately, it's going to have to be a purge of the judicial system.

• 1:18:11Tucker Carlson?

  Trump, when that happens, Trump will be attacked as destroying the third branch of government. But it's been completely destroyed long before Trump.

• 1:18:20Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 1:18:25Tucker Carlson?

  My last question to you, Peter Brolin, thank you so much for doing this. Is are you hopeful?

• 1:18:36Speaker 02

  I have.

• 1:18:39Speaker 02

  One of the sayings I want to remember for is based on a talk I gave in about 2015 is that miracles happen quite often in politics.

• 1:18:46Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:18:47Speaker 02

  I mean, nobody, nobody expected the Soviet Union collapse. Are you old enough to remember that?

• 1:18:51Tucker Carlson?

  I'm 56, yeah, I remember it like it was yesterday.

• 1:18:54Speaker 02

  Thirty years ago, thirty years ago. I mean, that's literally true. Nobody, nobody, either on the left or the right, expected the Soviet Union collapse. On the other hand, you know, I don't think they expected the Catholic Church to go in the direction it went. Vatican too.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  And on the third hand, nobody expected Trump. And he has been a miracle. I mean, he's changed the situation so many ways, not of which I think he has probably thought about, but he does it anyway. So I'm hopeful because I think miracles happen in politics frequently, but we need one. The situation right now, we're heading in a very, very bad direction. And in the situation with where, you know, Democrat politicians are openly calling people to disobey federal law, disobey law, prevent ICE from deporting illegals.

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  That's more extreme than than ever happened in the South during desegregation.

• 1:19:53Tucker Carlson?

  Much more. It's more extreme than than what the South did at Fort Sumter. I mean, this is this is insurrection, actual.

• 1:20:01Speaker 02

  It's insurrection, that's right. That's right. It's insurrection. And of course, Eisenhower and Kennedy did use the Insurrection Act to impose integration.

• 1:20:13Tucker Carlson?

  He sent the 101st Airborne to a high school.

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  Right, right. With the total applause from from the mainstream media, which was then, of course, completely oligopolistic. I mean, it was dominant, at least now we have we have Twitter, even if we are shadow banned on Twitter.

• 1:20:30Tucker Carlson?

  Are you still shadow banned?

• 1:20:31Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Well, as far as we can see, we are. And Calder, you know, her followership has not risen for like six years. It's been 2.1 million for six years. It doesn't go up, it doesn't go down. I mean, it's obvious. You can see from the engagement that there's something very strange going on.

• 1:20:48Speaker 02

  It's all the Indians he has in there. He hasn't been able to root him how he had.

• 1:20:52Tucker Carlson?

  Pidurima, thank you very much.

• 1:20:54Speaker 02

  Thank you, Tony.