#112: The Nasty Icon of Retail, Sophia Amoruso

Sophia Amoruso (@Sophia_Amoruso) https://twitter.com/@Sophia_Amoruso is the Founder and Executive Chairman of Nasty Gal http://www.nastygal.com/, a global online destination for both new and vintage clothing, shoes, and accessories. Founded in 2006, Nasty Gal was named "Fastest Growing Retailer" in 2012 by Inc. Magazine, thanks to its 11,200% three-year growth rate. Sophia has been called "fashion's new phenom" by Forbes magazine, and she has become one of the most prominent and iconic figures in retail. She recently founded the #GIRLBOSS Foundation, which awards financial grants to women in the worlds of design, fashion, and music. Sophia's first book, #GIRLBOSS http://www.amazon.com/GIRLBOSS-Sophia-Amoruso/dp/039916927X/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20, is a New York Times bestseller published in fifteen countries. Show notes and links for this episode can be found at www.fourhourworkweek.com/podcast http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/podcast. This podcast is brought to you by Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim. I get asked all the time, "if you could only use one supplement, what would it be?" My answer is, inevitably, Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim. It is my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body and did not get paid to do so. Get 50% off your order at Athletic Greens.com/Tim https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim. This podcast is also brought to you by Vimeo Pro https://vimeo.com/business, which is ideal for entrepreneurs. In fact, a bunch of my start-ups are already using Vimeo Pro https://vimeo.com/business. WealthFront https://www.wealthfront.com/ uses it to explain how it develops personalized investment portfolios. TaskRabbit https://www.taskrabbit.com/ uses it to tell the company's story. Twitter uses it to showcase Periscope https://www.periscope.tv/. Why are they using it instead of other options out there? Vimeo Pro https://vimeo.com/business provides enterprise level video hosting that typically costs thousands of dollars for a tiny fraction of the cost. Features include: Gorgeous high-quality playback with no ads Up to 20 GB of video storage every week Unlimited plays and views A fully customizable video player, which can include your company logo, custom outro, and more You get all this for just $199 per year (that's only $17 per/mo.) https://vimeo.com/business There are no complicated bandwidth calculations or hidden fees. Just go to Vimeo.com/business https://vimeo.com/business to check it out. If you like it, you can use the promo code "Tim" to get 25% off https://vimeo.com/business. This is the deepest discount you will find anywhere for Vimeo Pro https://vimeo.com/business.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tim Ferriss?

  We'll just do a sound check. What did you have for breakfast this morning?

• 0:03Speaker 01

  For breakfast, I had a cup of coffee with two shots and heavy cream and actually an Americano with two shots of coffee and heavy cream. And I had a smoothie with apple and yogurt and some shit in it.

• 0:22Tim Ferriss?

  Well, we will talk more about the shit part. That's gonna be very relevant. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Can I ask you a personal question?

• 0:36Speaker 01

  No, this isn't appropriate time.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  I'm a cybernetic organism living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 0:51Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, if you could only use one supplement, what would it be? And my answer is inevitably Athletic Greens. It is your all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The Four Hour Body, did not get paid for that, and I travel with it to avoid getting sick. I take it in the mornings to ensure optimal performance. It just covers all my bases if I can't get what I need through whole food meals throughout the rest of the day. And you can get 50, oh my gosh, 50% off, yes, 50% off if you go to athleticgreens.com/tim. That's athleticgreens.com/tim. Check it out. It's tasty, but more important, it will help you not screw up when you're

• 1:34Tim Ferriss?

  doing your nutritional planning. So for me, it just covers the bases, takes a load off my mind, puts a lot in my body. And check it out, athleticgreens.com/tim.

• 1:46Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Vimeo Pro, which is the ideal video hosting platform for entrepreneurs. And in fact, a bunch of my startups already use Vimeo Pro, including Wealthfront, who uses it to explain how Wealthfront works. TaskRabbit uses it to tell the company's story. And there are many other names you would recognize among their customers, Airbnb, Etsy, et cetera. Why do they use it? Well, Vimeo Pro provides enterprise-level video hosting for a fra- ...of the usual cost. Features include gorgeous, high-quality playback with no ads, up to 20 gigabytes of video storage every week, unlimited plays and views, and a fully customizable video player, which can include your logo, custom outro, etc. You also get VIP support. And you get all of this for just $1.99 per year.

• 2:29Tim Ferriss?

  That's $17 a month, with no complicated bandwidth calculations or hidden fees. And you can try it risk-free for 30 days. So, check it out. Vimeo.com/business. That's Vimeo.com/business. And use promo code TIM to get 25% off. That's a special discount just for you guys. So, check it out. Vimeo.com/business. Promo code TIM. Hello, my little kittens. This is Tim Ferriss, and welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where I attempt, in each interview, to deconstruct world-class performers, to tease out the things you can use, not just act with integrity, but what does that actually mean on a daily basis? What are your morning routines? What are your habits? What are your favorite books?

• 3:14Tim Ferriss?

  What are your influences? What are your favorite documentaries? So on and so forth. I really want specific tactics that you guys can apply, toolkits that you can use in your daily life. And lives. That's a plural for you guys. And this episode is no exception. I'm very excited to have Sophia Amoruso, that's @sophia underscore Amoruso, on the show. She is founder and executive chairman of Nasty Gal, which is a global online destination for both new and vintage clothing, shoes, and accessories, among many other things. Founded in 2006, Nasty Gal was named fastest-growing retailer in 2012 by Inc. Magazine, thanks, I suppose, in part to its 11,200% three-year growth rate. It's a very big number.

• 3:58Tim Ferriss?

  Sophia has been called, quote, "fashion's new phenom," end quote, by Forbes Magazine, and she has become one of the most prominent and iconic figures in retail. She recently founded #GirlBossFoundation, which awards financial grants to women in the world of design, fashion, and music. Sophia's first book, #GirlBoss, check it out, is a New York Times bestseller published in 2012. In 15 countries and we touch upon many, many things. We talk about tactics, testing, the genesis story of Nasty Gal, early successes, early mistakes. The last time she accidentally crapped in her pants. We really go all over the place. And there is a lot of personality in this episode. There's a lot of fun and there's also a lot

• 4:41Tim Ferriss?

  that you can use. So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with Sophia Amoruso.

• 4:51Tim Ferriss?

  Sophia, welcome to the show.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Hi, Tim. How are you?

• 4:54Tim Ferriss?

  I am fantastic. And we've had such an adventure putting this together.

• 5:01Tim Ferriss?

  And getting all the tech to work. But I'm stoked to be chatting with you. I've wanted to have a jam session with you for so long. And I know we've met very briefly before. But let's, let's start with some basics for people who may not be familiar with you. And I know your role has changed in the last year or so. But when people ask you, what do you do? How do you answer that now? And how did you answer that two years ago?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  If I don't know them, I just say like, I have an online fashion business and I try to leave it at that. And if they ask, it depends on who it is. But I started a company called Nasty Gal in 2006 as an eBay store selling vintage clothing. And you know, whatever, like a lot of entrepreneurs just did everything myself, did what needed to happen, just ran a little eBay store, but it wasn't little for very long. Left eBay about a year and a half later and launched nastygal.com, which is now kind of a full on fashion e-commerce destination. We carry brands, we design our own product, and we still sell vintage.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  And I guess I'm an author. So there's that too. I wrote a book last year that spent a bunch of time on the, on the bestseller list and it was called Girl Boss. It's called hashtag girl boss, but saying hashtag out loud is kind of weird.

• 6:24Tim Ferriss?

  And to, I mean, you're a multi hyphenate. You've done a lot. To put some numbers or stats to it, and I'm reading off of just the reading that I've done. So I'd love for, feel free to correct me, but it sounds like company has customers in more than 60 countries. It was the fastest growing retailer in 2012, according to Inc. Magazine. And I guess at one point at least, it sounds like, and again, I'm reading from online. So who knows how verified this is, but I guess in 2011, when it, so it was started in 2006 and by 2011,

• 7:04Tim Ferriss?

  revenue is like 24 million or so, marking, I guess, an 11,000 plus three-year growth rate. So very impressive stuff.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 7:12Tim Ferriss?

  Very impressive. And the, I have to, I cannot resist asking about some of these bullets before we get into that whole story. I apologize in advance. So for those who are wondering how this podcast gets put together, I usually like to not rehearse, but send some prompts for guests who are on the show. So one of the sentences that I send out is, can you please send some bullets with a handful of topics and/or questions that will lead to actionable tips, advice, comma, funny stories, comma, or resource and how-to recommendations? So funny stories. The first...

• 7:51Speaker 01

  I just went straight, I just went straight for funny stories.

• 7:53Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, no, it was awesome. So I'm just going to read the first five and then we're going to dig into one. So bullet number one, I once pooped my pants in high school. We're going to come back to that. Number two, I have three poodles that are all related. Number three, and I'm paraphrasing here, I lived on a street called, called Orange Blossom twice in different parts of California. I love karaoke and the, then the, the last bullet I'll read is I'm a big supporter of reality TV because it's cheaper and healthier than weed or alcohol. So, so people love the embarrassing stories. I woke up this morning for the first time. I just adopted a rescue puppy about six weeks ago. She's five months old.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 8:31Tim Ferriss?

  I woke up and she's never pooped in the house and woke up and she... She's being crate trained and looking at the crate, it looked like someone had taken a handful of mud and thrown it into a Cuisinart. She's somehow managed to diarrhea in every direction, including on the top of the cage. I don't know how this is possible.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, inside the crate?

• 8:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, unless you're like a Cirque du Soleil athlete who's had whatever, uh, too much to drink. But in any case, so this is on the mind. Obviously, it's all cleaned up. She's fine. She's chilling. Molly's good. But tell me about this, this high school incident. I, uh, I have to, I have to ask since it was sent over.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Well, um, I was at this guy's house. I was like 16 years old. I was at this guy's house who was like, it's amazing bassist. He played this thing called a war guitar, which is bass, it's like a, it's like a bass with, I don't know, a ton of strings on it. And you, it's, you basically just play the fretboard. And he was just looking at this weird, like proggy musician, and I thought was super cool. Um, and he was like, I don't know, maybe he was like 19. I thought that was amazing. And, um, I went to his house. He like lived with his dad and got there like, I don't know, after like 15 minutes, my stomach was just like, uh-oh. Um, I had eaten some, some pepperoni

• 9:51Speaker 01

  pizza, I think, like the kind that has cheese that you can almost drink, like not, um, not, not like, you know, not like boutiquey LA pizza or whatever. It's like, it was like, it was like gnarly pepperoni pizza, just like mouthfuls of cheese. Anyway, um, I was like, oh, no, I don't want to use this guy's bathroom. I'm not sure what's going on here, but I should probably leave. So after like 15 minutes at his house, I, I left. Um, and I started driving down the street. It wasn't like, oh, jeez, well, if I find a toilet, then I'll be happy about it. It was like, oh, I really need a toilet.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  And I stopped at this liquor store and walked inside. And I was like, do you guys have a restroom I can use? And they were like, no, sorry, it's for employees only. At that age, it would have been confusing if I had like lied and said I was pregnant. I've done that before. Um, once, only once. An awful person. No, um, and then, so I got back in my car and drove. I was in a like 1991 Honda Civic with little like, like a little like, like a racing steering wheel. It was pretty funny. Um, and I drove down the street and stopped at a gas station and got out. And it was like, step, step, framp, just like, oh, my-

• 11:05Speaker 01

  I didn't even make it inside and it was just like, you know, when something like that happens to you, you wonder if you're gonna spend the rest of your life doing that like uncontrollably because it's just so, it's so shocking, like it just shouldn't happen. And, and I, I just like, I had to get back in my car and like finish, like finish. And then I had to drive home and, and you know, sitting in my, in my.

• 11:31Tim Ferriss?

  Oops, sorry, that's, that's, that's, that's my pooch. I apologize for that.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 11:39Tim Ferriss?

  But so you see.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Disgusting story.

• 11:41Tim Ferriss?

  And so, so I have a number of friends who swap these stories. Sorry, my dog's freaking out, guys. Okay, this is like a podcast verite. Are you there?

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:58Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, so, coming back to the topic at hand, so I have a number of friends who are athletes and have been competitive athletes and guys take all sorts of disgusting pre-workout products and so on, and these guys trade stories of what they call fouling out. So what happened to you, they would call fouling out.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Well, I'm not alone. My people are out there.

• 12:22Tim Ferriss?

  No, you're not alone. And so I'll, I'll trade just a really quick one because I think that most guys who've tried to gain muscle and taken a lot of horrible supplements will somehow identify with this. So I was on my way, driving on my way to SFO, right, driving to the airport, and I had had a bunch of creatine monohydrate, a bunch of coffee, and then I think what's called MCT oil, which is the ultimate recipe for disaster pants, I now realize in retrospect, but got halfway to the airport, I'm racing to a flight and had the exact experience that you did, like just viciously shat myself.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like throwing up, it comes in waves.

• 13:03Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, it's, it was the worst. It's like throwing up, it's so true. So then I had to basically like clean myself up with my own boxers and like run into the airport, get through security.

• 13:16Tim Ferriss?

  And then go deal with myself. But so for those people out there who've had this experience, you're not alone. And what you said also, like the steps, kind of like step, step, bang.

• 13:26Tim Ferriss?

  It made me think of like San Francisco doula midwifery and whatnot, because they're like, oh, when you're trying to have a natural birth, if you're doing it at home, you can have a pregnant woman like walk on a curb, just like one foot on, one foot off. And that's one way to like, kind of pop the baby out. So.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Wow. You know, all kinds of stuff.

• 13:46Tim Ferriss?

  Well.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  The four hour baby.

• 13:49Tim Ferriss?

  The four hour baby. Sounds like a horrible tragedy.

• 13:54Tim Ferriss?

  But how did the business start? And I think a lot of people, they know you, they know your photograph, they've seen the book, they're very familiar with the company as it exists now. But like, what was the, what was the moment in which you decided to start selling clothing?

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I never worked in a clothing store and it wasn't, you know, eBay was definitely not my way into the fashion industry. That was not my intention. I just was kind of flailing. I wanted to be a photographer, but figuring out how to like schmooze in the art world, or talk about my photography and make stuff up about why it was important, or all of that stuff just seemed like not right for me. And not like people were inviting me to do shows, although I did have a show at Adobe Books before they went extinct. Did you ever go there?

• 14:47Tim Ferriss?

  No, this is, this is here in the Bay Area.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a super cool bookstore in San Francisco. But I don't know, I was like working at the Academy of Art University in downtown San Francisco.

• 14:57Tim Ferriss?

  How old were you at that point?

• 14:59Speaker 01

  I was 22.

• 15:00Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, got it.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  And I got that job because I needed to have a hernia fixed. I don't know how I got a hernia, but I had no health insurance. So I had to get a job so I could get health insurance, so I could get my hernia fixed. And I had to work at this job for three months to get health insurance. So I did. But I was working in the lobby, just like checking student IDs and sometimes worked like late at night and was, you know, had time to kill on the internet and was getting friend requests on MySpace. I'm not sure if anyone remembers.

• 15:32Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  And so I was getting friend requests on MySpace from eBay sellers that were promoting their businesses on MySpace and I wore almost entirely vintage at the time and I knew where to find it and I saw the prices that these vintage pieces were fetching on eBay and said, hey, you know, I can find them for way cheaper. I know how to take a picture. I'm pretty sure I know how to use the internet. And eBay, eBay was a great place to start. You know, there's a kind of like a framework for you to sell online. And it's really easy today, but then building a website, like a webshop wasn't, you know, it wasn't as easy.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  So I started with eBay and you also have a built-in customer base there. You put something and you can test. You can test like what works or if people like your taste, you know, your taste or what you have to bring to the table. So I bought eBay for dummies and had a friend model for free, you know, and just found some vintage, sold some of my stuff and it was, you know, you can get a read on what people like really, really quickly on eBay because they watch stuff. There's something called watching, which is basically like, you know, you're like monitoring it or adding to your favorites. You want to see what happens with the auction over the course of the week or 10 days.

• 16:51Tim Ferriss?

  And how did you know where to find vintage clothing?

• 16:55Speaker 01

  I, it was like all I wore. So I just, I'd spent, I've just spent my youth in thrift stores, like discovering, just unearthing stuff that no one else wanted, that I thought was really special and I made a, made a career out of it.

• 17:09Tim Ferriss?

  Did you have a favorite thrift store at the time in the Bay Area?

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Um, let me think. Uh, at the time, um, I don't know, none of them are just, none of them are a real like goldmine anymore. I liked estate sales a lot because you can encounter people who have no idea what they have. That, that's becoming rarer and rarer and thrift stores are like on to vintage being valuable.

• 17:38Tim Ferriss?

  How would you find, at the time, how would you find the estate sales? Just look in the newspaper or like a Craigslist? I'm not, I'm trying.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Craigslist, yeah, Craigslist and the newspaper. Yeah. And I like line up with all these people that were, I don't know, way older than me at like 6:00 AM to be the first people in and I just run straight for the closet and hope whoever died had great style.

• 18:01Tim Ferriss?

  I saw this, the end, I didn't watch, I didn't see the entire thing. My girlfriend was watching at the end of this documentary about a, I want to say a fashion icon named Iris, who's now, or when it was recorded or filmed, in her 90s, 93. And she has awesome style, but I think it'll be hard to get to her estate still.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:21Tim Ferriss?

  So you got eBay for dummies, you know where to find the vintage clothing.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Know how to take a picture.

• 18:30Tim Ferriss?

  Know how to take a picture. What's, and you're getting an indication of what works, or what people are at least interested in, right? Through the watching, what was, do you remember your first sale, or your first day of sales?

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was like, well, it was a, it was, it was a week of auctions, so I watched what happened over the course of the week, and at the very end, some stuff goes crazy because people swoop in at the last minute, trying to steal it from whoever was in the lead. And, you know, sometimes nothing happens, but I learned really quickly what, you know, what was working and what wasn't, and tweaked that, you know, every, with every auction, with everything I bought, and I watched my competitors, and I watched what they were doing, and I just, I tried to do a better job, and, I don't know.

• 19:17Tim Ferriss?

  What, what, what are some examples of maybe some of the things that you noticed in those initial tests, and that you could be better at?

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the thumbnails are the thing that attract, that, I mean, you, you evaluate everything as you browse eBay by a thumbnail and the title of the item. And those are two things that you can optimize just into kind of infinity. I mean, there's a limited amount of space, but I, I knew that using images that were really bright, where you could see the silhouette of the item. eBay thumbnails have gotten a lot bigger, but at the time, they were teeny, tiny, teeny tiny. So making it really obvious what the, what the item was, and even showing, you know, I had a, I would split the image in half and have, you know, half of the thumbnail be

• 20:08Speaker 01

  a full, like a full-length shot of the item, and then I'd have like a detailed shot, like on the, maybe the right-hand side, and the description. So, I mean, selling vintage is such an incredible way to learn perceived value, because unless you're selling something that's like a designer, like a Chanel jacket or whatever. You're buying stuff that, you're buying it for the style and you're buying things that have no inherent value that could be, that really are someone else's throwaway and exalting them to a level that makes them worth more. And, and worth more, I mean eBay was the customer who determined the price. They started everything at nine ninety-nine and let them choose, let them fight over it, but only, they only fought over it because I turned it into something

• 20:52Speaker 01

  really special. Um, and I breathed new life into these forgotten about things.

• 20:59Tim Ferriss?

  And what were, I mean, as a, as a copywriter, how did you accomplish that? Um, and maybe that's a non-specific question that's unhelpful. I'm just, for instance, I mean, a lot of people bring up, uh, I think it's Influence by Robert Cialdini and they talk about, say, you know, scarcity, time restrictions, uh, et cetera, as tools of persuasion that can be used for, for good or ill means. Uh, but what did you, how did you learn to write persuasive copy?

• 21:33Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know. My mom was a writer and write, reading and writing was always, I mean, it sounds like so, so basic, but it was just something that she always took a lot of pride in and, um, something that I really cared about. And I, I guess I had a voice. I didn't realize that until later on when I, you know, when I, I realized I was building a brand because there were so many specific things that were, had become part of the nasty Y'all DNA. Um, but you can take something that may be like an eighties, like big ass, you know, coat cape-y thing that, you know, some, you know, overweight lady might have

• 22:13Speaker 01

  bought, um, and turn it into like this, like avant-garde. I mean, you can use a word like avant-garde for something that could be perceived as like outdated and funky on the wrong person, like a lady with a perm, or just like the coolest thing on some like kid with a weird haircut, you know, on the sidewalk. So it's all about context.

• 22:33Tim Ferriss?

  Right.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:35Tim Ferriss?

  Couple of things. The first is thumbnails. We are doing this over Skype. For those people who always ask me, I'm using ECAM call recorder to record this and Audio-Technica ATR 2100 mic, which is about 60 bucks on Amazon. But your thumbnail for Skype is this rad-looking chick, I don't know who she is. It's a bunch of bikers, naked female bikers. And one of them has, it looks like a tattoo of flowers and something over one breast and she's holding a knife. I can't really tell exactly what's going on.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  Yep, that's pretty accurate.

• 23:17Tim Ferriss?

  Where is this from? Or how did you... What is this?

• 23:22Speaker 01

  So I'm working on my second book. And I've been pulling images, just all kinds of inspiration. Some of it will be used in the book. And this is actually an image from a movie called Girlboss, Girlboss Gorilla.

• 23:39Tim Ferriss?

  Gorilla G U E?

• 23:41Speaker 01

  G U E, yeah. So that was a film that I saw a long time ago that was kind of the inspiration for the name of Girlboss. And very few people know that. So there's a whole genre of Japanese cinema called pinky violence, or just pinky films. And it's pretty much like all female revenge and like girl gangs. And they're so cool. Like they're super stylish and Tarantino's ripped a lot from them. And this one, this is from Girlboss Gorilla.

• 24:14Tim Ferriss?

  Ah, I wonder if, I think Battle Royale, I want to say, is one of those comic books. It's one of the most violent...

• 24:20Speaker 01

  I've seen it.

• 24:21Tim Ferriss?

  Violent things you could possibly imagine, which makes you then think of some of, say, the fight scenes in Kill Bill in some capacity. But coming back to the writing for a second. Let me start with a question that I always ask and we'll go from there. What is the book that you've gifted most to other people?

• 24:40Speaker 01

  So the book that I've gifted most other people is The Richest Man in Babylon, which I talk about in Girlboss, and it was written like a hundred years ago. And it's written as though it was written in biblical times or something. Parables.

• 24:55Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, it's parable, or, yeah, it would be a parable, it'd be like The Alchemist.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, it's basically parables set in ancient times describing someone who goes about, this guy who goes about, I forget his name, trying to find out how he can make money, how he can make a life for himself and his family. And he encounters all these different people and lessons along the way. And the advice is, you know, very, there's some really simple advice, like save 10% of everything that you earn. Don't take advice from the baker if you want to be a cobbler, you know.

• 25:28Tim Ferriss?

  Yep.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  And it's something that anyone can read and understand. It's like a, it's like a one-hour, two-hour read. It's the tiniest little book. And a hundred years later, all of the advice still holds up, which I find really great. And it's like, it's a cheap book, and I'm a cheap giver, so. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. So it would be that, it would be that in my book, I guess.

• 25:52Tim Ferriss?

  The Richest Man in Babylon, and what, what other writers, just from a writing perspective? So you said your, you said your mother was a writer, or your father?

• 26:02Speaker 01

  My mom.

• 26:03Tim Ferriss?

  What type of writing did she do?

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Well, she sold houses for a long time, and then kind of quit doing that and started writing about real estate. And now she writes about all kinds of stuff, and she's working on her own book. But, yeah, wait, what was the question?

• 26:21Tim Ferriss?

  The question was, I was stuttering and stammering my way to the question, which was, what, do you have any favorite writers? Or writers that you admire, have influenced you? Any of the above.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, uh, Rayner Maria Rilke, I think it's just such a, like, great.

• 26:40Tim Ferriss?

  Could you say that one more time, please?

• 26:42Speaker 01

  I think it's Rayner Maria Rilke.

• 26:44Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, so, on love and other, what's it called, on love and other, uh, maybe it's just on love. I don't know, everything I read, almost like everything that I learned from actually reading things or, um, unearthing culture happened before I started the business because after, basically since I was twenty-two, so it's been almost a decade. Um, I feel like my personal, I don't know, my quest for, for, for knowledge was fulfilled by all the shit, all the challenges that come with building a business. And so, things like books that I read for fun and not books that I read to learn stuff,

• 27:30Speaker 01

  kinda went out the door.

• 27:31Tim Ferriss?

  Right.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  It's like all nonfiction.

• 27:34Tim Ferriss?

  The discretionary extracurriculars kind of got consumed or displaced by the work.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  Kind of, yeah, it's like I only read things that I can do something practical with now, just, I don't know, not, not, not something that makes for a lot of relaxation, but fun.

• 27:51Tim Ferriss?

  So, Rayner Maria Rilke, if that's, I'm sure I'm pronouncing that incorrectly, but he's come up, actually, in my life, in the last forty-eight hours, I've had two separate people recommend reading, and I did read this long, long time ago, but Letters to a Young Poet.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:05Tim Ferriss?

  Which is from nineteen twenty-nine. Uh, so, what do you do, you said it's not relaxing, and I know we're hopping around a lot, but what do you do to relax? Let's just say, looking back at some of the either tougher periods or fastest-growing periods, uh, in your company, what did you do to decompress? I mean, when you felt overwhelmed or burned out, what did you do? How did you manage that?

• 28:29Speaker 01

  God, sometimes you just kind of explode, and hopefully no one else is around.

• 28:34Tim Ferriss?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Um, and I was like, I was like crying last night. Uh, also.

• 28:40Tim Ferriss?

  Why were you crying last night? I can't let that go.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, I don't know, just because, because running a business is really hard.

• 28:48Tim Ferriss?

  And what do you, yeah, what do you do? I mean, do you cry for like five minutes and you're done? Do you cry for longer than that? Do you?

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I cried for like five minutes and then I was done. Just kinda like, this feels good, so I'm gonna just let it happen for a second. Um, yeah, just like, fuck. It was just one of those, it was a long day. Um, yeah, but right now, the thing that relaxes me the most is to- tuning in and turning off with reality TV. Uh, I don't know, I just finished watching the entire season of the worst show. It's not, the, people are not even compelling. They're like, not funny. It's, it's, it's so bad, but you can't stop watching it. It's called Dating Naked.

• 29:33Tim Ferriss?

  Dating Naked. Oh my god, I've seen, I remember, I saw a few minutes of this in like a waiting room at a doctor or something, and I was like, that is the most ridiculous premise I've ever seen, but I couldn't stop watching it.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  It's so dumb. It's so dumb. But I can't, you can't stop watching it. You're like, ew, their butts. And you're like, but I like watching this show. I don't know, um, yeah, what else do I do to relax? Hang out with my dogs. Uh, they're cool. Um.

• 30:01Tim Ferriss?

  These are, these are, these are the three poodles that are related?

• 30:04Speaker 01

  They're all siblings, yeah. They're different ages. They're like from different litters, but their parents like, yeah, their parents have been busy.

• 30:13Tim Ferriss?

  What are their, what are their names?

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Um, Donna Summer is the oldest one, and she's like three, and the next one's Cozy Dozer. And Cozy's like, I don't know, maybe just over a year old. And then there's one named Gino, who was named after my husband's grandfather. Um, and he's like, I don't know, maybe eight months or something.

• 30:38Tim Ferriss?

  That's Gino. I, I wanna talk about naming, cause naming and titling is really, I, I've, I've enjoyed reading about how you've gone about it in a few cases. So the Girl Boss Gorilla, I have no idea. So that's new. And I need to get that made into a poster in my house, cause it's amazing.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  You should.

• 30:54Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, second, so Gino's after the grandfather. What about the two other dogs? How did you come up with those names? Or how, were they named?

• 31:01Speaker 01

  I don't know, Donna was just like, well, it was kinda like, can we name her Donna Bummer? And then it was like, but that's not very nice. Okay, let's name her Donna Summer. I don't know. I don't know why.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  She has a cool haircut. And then, uh, Cozy was just like, super sleepy and, you know, when we brought Donna home, she was like screaming her head off, just like, don't take me away from my parents. And we were like, oh no, we're awful. And then we brought Cozy home and Cozy just like, kinda slept. It was just like, I'm cool. And she's still like that. So it's just like, let's, let's name her Cozy Dozer.

• 31:37Tim Ferriss?

  Cozy Dozer. Now, Nasty Gal. This is, a lot of folks don't know the origin. Where is the name from?

• 31:45Speaker 01

  So the name Nasty Gal, um, so I used to work at a record store in San Francisco that's no longer around, um, in Noe Valley called Streetlight Records. And spent a lot of time, I think music was probably like my first love, way before fashion. I'm not even sure if I'm in love with fashion. And this, I'm not sure if it was just reissued at that time, but I somehow uncovered this album called uh, Nasty Gal by a woman named Betty Davis, who I think is becoming, become more well-known, but um, she is the ex-wife of Miles Davis. And she's just like, super outspoken funk singer with a really great band behind her and just these super raunchy, like awesome lyrics. And she just doesn't give a fuck.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  So when I was choosing a name for my eBay store, which I never thought I'd be, you know, I never thought I'd be talking about it this much, you know, nine years later, which is fine, I still like the name. Um, I thought, I thought Nasty Gal would be good, because there were so many other eBay sellers who, whose business names were like Lady Standing in the Dust, or you know, like, or like Lady in Tall Grass, or like Boho. Just like, so like, bohemian and kinda like, expected. And I was like, I'm gonna name it Nasty Gal. I don't know. I'm just like, I'm antagonistic, so. I don't know. Um, it worked.

• 33:07Tim Ferriss?

  What, uh, and looking back at Nasty Gal, I guess a couple of questions. One is, so I've read in different places, well, different accounts of this. Why, why leave eBay? What, uh, what, yeah?

• 33:22Speaker 01

  One second. Did I actually say that she has an album called Nasty Gal? Cause I think I didn't. Because I think I just talked about this lady named Biddy Davis.

• 33:30Tim Ferriss?

  Ah, alright. Well, that's helpful to have, that tidbit then. So the album name is Nasty Gal, hence...

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:37Tim Ferriss?

  Bang. Okay.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:38Tim Ferriss?

  Cool. The transition off of eBay, how did that happen? What's the story behind that?

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Well, it wasn't much of a transition. You know, I like to make promises that I'm not sure I can keep and then figure out how to keep them. It's happened a few times in my life.

• 33:56Tim Ferriss?

  We will come back to that.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  It's good. I think you can, like, will things into happening by just, like, committing to them sometimes. And so I started to promote the idea of this, you know, coming soon, nastygal.com. Nastygalvintage.com was actually the first URL I had to buy nastygal.com from, you can guess who. But I had started to leave feedback for my customers when...

• 34:24Tim Ferriss?

  Wait a second. Alright, I actually can't guess. I'm like, Bette Davis? I can't imagine. That's the case. Who... No, who did you have to buy it from? Was it some porn company?

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:35Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, alright, got it. And did you do that through a broker? Did you reach out to them directly?

• 34:40Speaker 01

  I did it through a broker.

• 34:42Tim Ferriss?

  Got it. And where does someone find such a broker to help them if they want to do that?

• 34:46Speaker 01

  I don't remember. Someone introduced me to this guy and it was like, it was $8,000.

• 34:50Tim Ferriss?

  Nice. That's a good investment right there. So, sorry to interrupt, but I had to... My head was spinning with all these incorrect answers. So you get the domain, you've put up coming soon.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Put up the domain, yeah, coming soon, you know, nastygalvintage. And I had started to leave feedback for my customers on eBay saying like, hey, come soon, nastygalvintage.com. And I was like, oh shit, I better build a website, I better actually do this. So I figured it out. I launched the website. And when I launched the website, eBay decided to suspend me around the same time. So it was not a transition. It was literally like, I'm gonna try this website thing. I hope I can go back to eBay if it doesn't work out. But it was very, it became apparent pretty quickly that that wasn't gonna be an option. I got suspended for leaving a URL in the feedback for the customers. eBay doesn't want to send, they don't want you sending traffic off their website.

• 35:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Ixnay on the stealing our customers, eh?

• 35:52Speaker 01

  On the eBay.

• 35:55Tim Ferriss?

  Right, exactly.

• 35:58Tim Ferriss?

  So what the hell did you do? I mean, if suddenly bam,

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:03Tim Ferriss?

  that entire ecosystem's turned off, what happened in the next kind of like 24 or 48 hours?

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Um, I, I had, well, some people, some editors had heard or seen on the MySpace profile that I was going to launch a website and they did a little coverage of it when they, when it, when it launched. And it launched, it was just kind of like, there was a lot of pent up demand. I had, I didn't know I would have any traffic, but the website sold out just instantly. It was like an hour and there was maybe 150 items on the website when we launched, but there's only one of each of those things. There's one of a kind, you just, 150 orders still seems like a lot for your first day of doing business. But it was just like, I had like Kelly Ripa's stylist calling me, asking if I had another one of those like extras, those in it, like vintage jacket and extra small. It's like, no, it's one of a kind.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  And I don't know, it was, it was very serendipitous that it, that it worked at all and that, you know, I, I, I was able to not have to go back to eBay, if that is even a sentence.

• 37:06Tim Ferriss?

  No, I think, I think we can work without punctuation in this conversation.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 37:09Tim Ferriss?

  The, especially since I've had enough, enough tea now and butter and coconut oil to, to last me for like a Siberian trek, but I'm digressing. The eBay transition slash booting off of slash jumping, jumping headfirst and growing wings on the way down. That was how long after you started selling on eBay?

• 37:35Speaker 01

  That was, oh gosh, a year and a half.

• 37:39Tim Ferriss?

  And at the, at the point that you launched your site, what did sales look like on eBay for you? If you recall, roughly.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the first year on eBay was like 75,000 in revenue, which, you know, I wasn't paying myself. I mean, I didn't need stuff. I lived in a pool house for $500 a month. Like I drove an 87 Volvo. Like I didn't, I ate Boston Market and Subway, you know, like all the time. So it was, that was like winning the lottery.

• 38:06Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Oh, for sure. I think Boston Market's underrated.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  It kind of is.

• 38:12Tim Ferriss?

  It's like Trader Joe's in Boston Market. It's like, don't knock it until you try it.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:17Tim Ferriss?

  And then you start getting these inquiries from, say, Kelly Ripa Stiles. She is extra small. Having been on that show once, she is tiny.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  No, she's in such great shape.

• 38:30Tim Ferriss?

  She is in amazing shape. How did you develop those relationships with editors and so on? Or was it all out of the blue? I mean, did you ping them?

• 38:42Speaker 01

  No, it was like totally inbound at that point. And it wasn't like a giant, you know, there wasn't a ton of news every year. It was Daily Candy, you know, rest in peace, and Who What Where? And they just kind of, they followed me on MySpace. They heard about the launch and they decided to talk about it. And the kind of coverage I got was stuff that brands like Cartier will pay, you know, tens of thousands of dollars, you know, for. But when you're doing something cool, people want to talk about it. And I guess it was cool. I mean, I hate saying that I'm cool, but.

• 39:17Tim Ferriss?

  No, you can say it was cool because if you were like, let me tell you how I'm cool, it would be one thing, but you're talking about how the, how the, the launch was cool. That's fair game.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  People liked it. They liked it, so they talked about it. If you have something great, people will talk about it. I think that's just kind of like a rule of the internet.

• 39:32Tim Ferriss?

  And if, if someone were launching now, not necessarily fashion or anything like that, but they say, I have this idea for X. Let's just, let's, we can think something up, like vintage toy cars. Let's just say. I'm sure it's been done, but, and they say, you know, I would like to figure out, I would like to build a business based on this. What, uh, what advice would you give them in terms of kind of testing or de-risking or testing the waters in any way? Or you can answer that in any way really that you'd like. But if you had that conversation with someone, and I'm sure you have had probably ad nauseam these types of conversations, but assuming they're pretty smart, they're willing to do

• 40:16Tim Ferriss?

  the work, they're detail oriented, like what would you say to them?

• 40:20Speaker 01

  I would say it's really great to test your product. My MO is like, I'm gonna talk about something before I've even launched it, make a big stink about the thing, and I'm not, you know, who knows if it's gonna work out. And that's just me being kind of like, short attention span, instant gratification. But I really think there's a lot of value in being patient in testing things with like, a small group before you go out there and tell the world, ta-da, you know, here I am, fully formed, you know, buy into my stuff, you know, buy into what I'm doing. I think there's just a lot of resources for, I mean, as far as selling online goes, it's, I mean, it's like having a lemonade stand at this point. So, it's incredibly easy thing to do.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  Your product should be really differentiated, and the way you talk about it should be unique, and really thoughtful. And regardless of whether you're selling, you know, used diapers or used toy cars,

• 41:18Speaker 01

  sorry. You should really, really invest in presenting yourself well. And there's websites like Squarespace, obviously, that make that so easy now. So much easier than it used to be. Just finding a graphic designer that can make something look like what you can plug into now for almost no money is incredible.

• 41:41Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, no, the infrastructure, I mean, the rentable infrastructure per se, whether it's a Squarespace, or WordPress, or someone else. I mean, you can have a site up and running within an hour or two. And then you could use, you know, I've mentioned them in the Four Hour Workweek, but even the marketplaces that exist now for things like designers, right, or illustrators, like 99designs, or Fiverr, or something like that. I mean, I'm having illustrations done for a book right now with the non-spec version of 99designs, these kind of one-on-one projects. And the quality is obscenely high. I mean, I've been very, very impressed. So, it is a lot easier.

• 42:25Tim Ferriss?

  And particularly with things like Kickstarter, I think you have also the ability to see how strong your pitch is, right, before you buy inventory or manufacture things.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, if no one cares, you don't have a customer. It's like, you gotta see if anyone cares first.

• 42:39Tim Ferriss?

  Exactly. And if they're willing to part ways with their dollars. What were some books or resources that helped you in the first few years or overall, build in building Nasty Girl?

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Totally. Um, I would say, I would say the dummy's guides are not, I mean, they're fine. They're really fine. When I went to raise venture capital, there's one called, I think it's something like how to be smarter than your venture capitalist, like literary, something like that. And I read that and I was like, you know, I've raised 70 million dollars. So I guess I figured that out. Um, and there was a book called No Man's Land that I thought was really good. It was about just that period of time where you're too small to be big and you're too big to be small. And most people hire middle management, but middle management have never seen the top. So then you hire more senior management. And I've done that. And even that's challenging. So, I mean, there's no silver bullet, but

• 43:35Speaker 01

  reading other people, reading about other people's experiences of growing and struggling with scaling a business always makes you feel better.

• 43:43Tim Ferriss?

  The, is the book that you were thinking of Venture Deals, Be Smarter Than Your Lawyer and Venture Capitalist?

• 43:49Speaker 01

  No. Maybe it's called like How to Outsmart Your Venture Capitalist or something?

• 43:54Tim Ferriss?

  How to Train Your Venture Capitalist.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, basically. Um, How to Be Smarter Than Your Venture Capitalist. That's what it's called. At least that's what's coming up in the search results. Let me see.

• 44:07Tim Ferriss?

  How to Be Smarter Than Your Venture Capitalist?

• 44:09Speaker 01

  No, oh, Venture Deals, Be Smarter Than Your Lawyer. I guess that's it. Yeah.

• 44:13Tim Ferriss?

  Okay. All right. Cool. Yeah, that Venture Deals for People Interested in This World is a, is a great book. Uh, that's Brad Feld and his partner. Uh, very, very good investors. What, what were some of the biggest challenges?

• 44:31Tim Ferriss?

  For scaling an e-commerce business, what were some of the harder things that you guys, that you had to contend with? Let's just, let's just keep it focused on, on you. But the company, of course, as it's growing, spoken with people like Phil Libin of Evernote on the podcast, and he's like, well, like this, you know, gent who runs Rakuten, he's saying you should always plan on like, what if it's three times bigger? What if it's 10 times bigger? There's sort of these phase shifts where, where systems have to be completely redone. But for, for you and growing the company, what were some of the, what were some of the hardest periods for you?

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say, scaling is really hard. So I would say infrastructure, so systems, and we still don't have the systems that we would like to have to be able to plan our business and evaluate our business and talk about it.

• 45:21Tim Ferriss?

  What would be some examples of systems?

• 45:23Speaker 01

  I mean, it's really kind of like unglamorous stuff, like an ERP system, like enterprise resource planning, which basically connects the dots between, you know, different departments like finance and, you know, merchandise and whatever else. And right now, everything that we do is living in kind of disparate systems that don't talk as much as they could.

• 45:46Tim Ferriss?

  Right.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  So that's, that's a struggle today. What else? I mean, I would say people. I would say like, you know, being, having never really been a manager prior to starting the business that is Nasty Gal, you know, my dream scenario at one point was, you know, not getting out of a bathroom and eating Boston Market, like, you know, with my hands and, and, you know, and then, and then encountering, you know, hundreds of, you know, a team of hundreds who are looking up at you. It's like a really scary thing and they all assume that you-

• 46:23Tim Ferriss?

  I thought you meant your dream was walking into the office of hundreds of people in your bathroom, and it's like, that's very Wolf of Wall Street.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 46:31Tim Ferriss?

  I kind of like that visual, like eating lobster tails while you walk through the office.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  I would totally, I would do that, but I haven't.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Should I start over because I didn't make sense?

• 46:41Tim Ferriss?

  No, no, no, no, no. No, it does make sense. I mean, how, what did you view your, now you are, you are no longer CEO. Is that correct?

• 46:51Speaker 01

  No, yes, correct.

• 46:53Tim Ferriss?

  When you were CEO, what did you view as your job? Like?

• 46:58Speaker 01

  As entrepreneur CEO, it's really tough because there's so many things that I've been a part of and done over the course of the company's history. And I'm also kind of the brand, the brand cop. The brand is my voice. The vision has kind of grown out of the beginnings, the DNA of what was Nasty Gal origin story. So there's never been a point where I could just be like the cut and dry, I'm the CEO kind of person, you know, I'm the cultural leader and the, all of these things. It was so many things. So, you know, when, when you're, when you're growing a business, it's really hard to say, no, I'm not going to plug that hole. I'm not going to edit the photos. I'm not going to, you know, company spring leaks.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  And when you have, when, when you've done so many different things, it's, it's easy to sprout arms and fingers and to start like, you know, overextending yourself by filling in the gaps as they present themselves over the course of, you know, so it was, it was not, I, I don't think I got to choose my, what I did as much as I perhaps would have liked to. And I'm, even today, I'm not, I'm not sure if I have that privilege because you kind of have to do what the company needs you to do for it to continue operating or to be its very best.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  And nine years of that is a really long time. And I think my greatest strengths are with the brand and with, with marketing the brand and with the creative and the things that in the beginning built, built Nasty Gal. And that's what I'm hoping I can focus on today.

• 48:37Tim Ferriss?

  How do you, how do you keep?

• 48:41Tim Ferriss?

  Try to keep the team on the same page so that that sort of brand aesthetic and spirit doesn't get fragmented and turned into some Frankenstein monster where you've become brands that you loathe or whatever. You get the idea. How do you try to steer that?

• 48:56Speaker 01

  You can really quickly become a caricature of yourself. Like, yeah, like a spoof of like what you've done best. And I think it's a matter of talent, but it's also coaching. But at the end of the day, I think you really need to have tools that everyone can rally around and say, hey, this is what it is. This is what the brand is. This is what we're all signing up to do, not this is my idea versus your idea versus your idea. Because I think culture, like in a business that people are really excited to work at, culture can be used as a weapon. I think the brand can be used as a weapon. I think there have

• 49:38Speaker 01

  been times where people who are really cool and actually do get what the brand is, find themselves really frustrated because not everybody gets it the way they do. And they start to say, well, Sophia said this, or Sophia wouldn't like that. And it's like, I don't want to be, don't sling me around. Like, that's not cool. And so we've been spending the last several months actually working on somewhat of a brand bible, but also just filters for how we make decisions about what the voice is and how we take pictures and, you know, the world that is the nasty gal world and what the, you know, what the guardrails are that people can explore within. We always want to leave room for people to

• 50:22Speaker 01

  be creative, but it takes out the objectivity, or wait, yeah, the subjectivity. Oh, my God, my brain's not working. Basically, it makes it not personal.

• 50:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah. Makes it more objective or depersonalized.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's easy for it to be like, oh, well, that's not on brand because I said so. It's like, oh, hey, we're all trying to do the same thing. Let's look at this thing that sits outside of us and our taste, our ego, whatever. Let's talk about what it is rather than what we think it is. So you have to have those things defined for people to have conversations about. And that's something I'm really excited to have.

• 51:03Tim Ferriss?

  There's a really cool handbook.

• 51:06Tim Ferriss?

  I think it's just called the Handbook for New Employees for a company called Valve, which is a software company. It's one of the coolest sort of employee orientation handbooks that I've ever seen. I had a chance to meet, because it was Gabe Newell at one point in Seattle, and I was, somebody else then recommended I see this handbook. It's really cool. You should check it out. I think you might enjoy it, and people listening might get something out of it. You can find the free PDF if you just search Valve Employee Handbook. It's pretty sweet.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  I think I've seen that. It's really beautiful. It's this teeny little cool thing.

• 51:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, it's really well done, great illustrations, but lays out the basic ground rules, right, for working within this somewhat unusual culture. Now, you mentioned the, before I derailed us with the Wolf of Wall Street analogy and you walking around in a bathrobe eating lobster tails, which actually I have to, quick anecdote. So, when I was in college, one of my buddies, and I was in, I was in New Jersey, and one of my buddies ends up calling us from Atlantic City, and he's like, "There are limos coming to get you. You have to come to Atlantic City."

• 52:22Tim Ferriss?

  We show up, and he's just been on a bender and made like $200,000 blackjack, and proceeds to spend it all in the next 48 hours. And he was walking around the casino in a bathrobe, eating, and he ordered lobster tails for everyone on the, on the like blackjack floor.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 52:39Tim Ferriss?

  And so I was kind of imagining like, you could, you could be that person, but with like a martini glass.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  I love, I love absurd, just doing absurd things like that, because you can, like that's...

• 52:50Tim Ferriss?

  So, I was gonna ask you about, I was gonna ask you about managing, and I will, but absurd things, what are some absurd things that you've done?

• 52:58Speaker 01

  Um, oh my gosh, I'm getting on a bus that I'm calling a girl bus, hashtag girl bus.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  And, well, it's like later at the end of this month and we're, it's just the paperback. It's the girl boss paperback and it has a new introduction in it. It's the introduction to the introduction, I guess, just talking about what's happened over the last year a little bit and we're going to like 10 different cities on this crazy tour bus. It's like I'm a Spice Girl or something and, you know, throwing events at different venues and some bookstores and it's just like, it's really absurd to be riding around like Hillary Clinton in like a campaign bus, basically, but Penguin, Penguin wanted to do it and I thought it was just like too good to pass up and it's, it's really funny to have your face and the cover of your book like, like, you know, slathered across the side of like a giant tour bus.

• 53:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I would imagine. What about, um, managing? Let's talk about that. So the managing of people, you had no experience prior to Nasty Gal. Now it's grown, of course tremendously. Um, what were, who were the mentors or what were the things that helped you learn to manage to the extent that you were able?

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Oh my God, I think I'm still learning. Um, wait, say that again?

• 54:22Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that was a, that was a word salad question.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 54:25Tim Ferriss?

  Who are the mentors or like the, the resources that helped you learn to manage other people? Because I think that's a weakness of mine, quite frankly. I'm good at defining systems, but I'm not always, uh, for instance, I mean, I was raised by, or not raised by, that sounds weird. I was coached by a lot of athletic coaches who were always kind of very short with praise. They would, they would not, they didn't do a lot of head pats, but heavy on criticism and very meticulous. And so I am often very bad at

• 55:01Tim Ferriss?

  Providing praise when I probably should because I don't feel like I was ever given it. Therefore, it's not really necessary.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm the same. I think I'm the same.

• 55:12Tim Ferriss?

  But that causes all sorts of problems, right?

• 55:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, people are like, we don't feel appreciated. And it's like, oh, my God, I totally appreciate you. But like, I respect your intelligence enough not to like, be like, I don't know. It's just.

• 55:24Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's tough. I mean, because I've always been told like, look, the good stuff. I remember I had a VP of Sales at one point when my first job out of college and he said, you know, I would give him all the story in the backseat, tell him all this stuff about every client. He's like, Tim, I don't need the story. I just need to know next steps. And second, I don't need to know the good news because that takes care of itself. I need to know the bad news. And I was like, oh, okay. And so I've kind of adopted that, but you end up in a position where people can get very demoralized in a culture where people aren't getting, or don't have the ability to celebrate little wins and so on. Who has helped you to become a better CEO when you were a CEO or a better manager?

• 56:02Speaker 01

  I've had some executive coaches along the way. I think knowing the difference and then actually living the difference are two different things. And I think I'm pretty aware of the things that I'm, what my shortcomings are as a manager, as a leader, as a fill in the blank.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  I'm not, you know, I think I have experienced the same thing where when you, especially if you're entrepreneurial, which I think we can both like safely say we are. No one's giving you, no one's giving you those pats on the back. And when you find yourself in a position to be doling those out, you don't, you don't really relate because that's not something that you ever required. I'm an only child. I had a really mean dad. I mean, he's awesome now, but like, it was criticism after criticism and it makes you self-aware enough to calibrate on your own in a lot of ways, even though I'm totally open to, I love, you know, criticism and I love. But I think when you, when you're like a solo act at any point in your life and have

• 57:04Speaker 01

  to manifest things without, without the team, without the amazing team that we have today, you become really good at being your own critic and your own, and also your own pat on the back, or you're motivated maybe by different things. And that's a hard thing to relate to as an entrepreneur, um, who's leading, who's leading people. And I think that's definitely been one of my shortcomings. Um, but I've, I'm always like seeking advice and I'm always seeking to better myself. I think leadership, management, chops, whatever you want to call it, is something that comes over time. A lot of things are just learned over time with repetition. And that's something that I have, you know, I've been, that's one part of the job that I've had, is managing people, leading people. But there's been a million other things that I've done, uh, over the course of, you know, Nasty Gal's

• 57:49Speaker 01

  trajectory. And having someone like Sheri, our CEO, who has a lifetime of those chops behind her, who wakes up every day inspired, not just inspired to lead people, but knows how to do it in a way that will work, is such a real, it's such a cool thing to witness.

• 58:06Tim Ferriss?

  And, uh, when, when you were in the CEO role, who were the other CEOs out there, alive or dead, that you admired and really looked to as role models?

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Hmm, good question. Um, I mean, I've always admired Natalie Massinet, who founded Netaporter. Um, I, and she hasn't been the CEO for a long time, but she's, she's just like an incredible woman. Um,

• 58:35Tim Ferriss?

  Why is she incredible?

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Um, she's, she's a mother of two. Uh, she started a company along, you know, like, she started an e-commerce business long before most of us had the idea to. Um, she's been told, you know, I mean, I think people like kind of scoffed when, you know, she said, "I'm gonna sell a thirty thousand dollar handbag on the internet," or "sell shoes on the internet," or these things that have become really commonplace. And she's also just a super duper down, down-to-earth woman, who's funny and sweet and gives great advice and who's seen a lot. And, um, there's not, there's not a ton of examples that I think

• 59:16Speaker 01

  are, are similar to hers. Mickey Drexler is also an incredible, like, CEO.

• 59:22Tim Ferriss?

  Mickey Drexler?

• 59:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you know who Mickey Drexler is?

• 59:26Tim Ferriss?

  I don't. I'm embarrassed to say it.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  Oh my god!

• 59:27Tim Ferriss?

  But I shan't tell the lie.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Okay. He's the CEO at J. Crew right now. And he used to be the CEO at Gap. And he's kind of like a retail legend. I think he's called like the merchant prince or merchant king or something like that.

• 59:42Tim Ferriss?

  It's a cool nickname.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  I know, right? I know. He's someone who's given me advice along the way. Just really great advice and connecting me to people that I've ended up... You know, great people beget great people. You know, it's just when you meet someone awesome, it's common that I find that the people that they surround themselves with are people that I also like. And that's... It's just such a cool thing. It's like, I don't know. You don't have to... It's like going to a... Never mind.

• 1:00:14Tim Ferriss?

  Wait, no, no, no. I want you to finish that thought. That was about to get interesting.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  I was gonna start babbling about Yelp reviews. And it's like a Yelp review for a person. It was not an intelligent thought, so I did it up.

• 1:00:25Tim Ferriss?

  You know, I should learn to do that more often. I would embarrass myself a lot less.

• 1:00:31Tim Ferriss?

  What was some of the advice that Mickey has given you? That has stuck with you? It doesn't have to be specifically business. It could be anything.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  I mean, his advice was to stay CEO, which is really funny. It's definitely stuck with me, but I ignored it.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  Let me think.

• 1:00:57Tim Ferriss?

  I can give you an escape hatch for this.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  My memory blows.

• 1:01:02Tim Ferriss?

  I can give you a whole slew of pills and potions for that. But we will do that separately. The... Have you met David Cho?

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:01:14Tim Ferriss?

  You haven't? Okay. Somebody asked online what you learned from him.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  What? David Cho?

• 1:01:22Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, the graffiti artist slash artist who ended up, I guess, worth 500 million after Facebook. I believe I'm saying his last name.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Oh, cool. What did I learn from him? No, I didn't... That's cool.

• 1:01:33Tim Ferriss?

  But you haven't met him.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  What I learned about him was everything that you just told me.

• 1:01:37Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, okay, got it. I've been hoping to, I find his story fascinating, so I'm hoping to to connect with him at some point.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  That's pretty cool.

• 1:01:46Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, he's just made some really fascinating, creative decisions that I'd love to, love to dig into, but anyway, that's a whole separate story. The, what, what do you struggle with the most and how do you deal with it?

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  I struggle with doing it all the most. I struggle with feeling like I don't have time for everyone who I want to have time for and who I, I assume wants my time. For, for my friends and for my husband and for my parents and for my team. It's just, time is a really finite thing and prioritizing it so that you can, you know, so you can be your best, so that you can, you know, have a real solid time with people. So you can also find time to be alone or to take a vacation. It's just, there's not enough time. So I'm always feeling like I'm letting someone down or I'm just, you know, it's like,

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  it's like my calendar is booked up for the next month and a half now. And it's just, I, it's, it's not always like that, but to look out at the rest of the year, it's kind of like, it's over. Like the year's, you know, year's over. That's, that's something, I don't know, you know, I kind of hope that my life isn't always like that, but there's, there's got to be great things if you're planning that far out, I guess. You know, I feel very lucky for that. And the answer to your question really is, is feeling like I don't have all the time I wish I had to spend with all the people that I wish I could spend it with. And how, how do I deal with that?

• 1:03:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, how do you deal with it? And, and let me ask, just in combination with that, and this is maybe a very silly question. You obviously are very driven and that sometimes leads people to find it difficult to hit the, the pause button or downshift, but you've stepped out of the CEO role, I would think as an outsider looking in, of course, you're still going to be very involved as, as.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  Chairman.

• 1:03:47Tim Ferriss?

  As chairman, but why can't you create more time? Why can't you block out time?

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  Because the company still needs me for my things and I still partner with my CEO and still spend a lot of time with her. You know, I'm drumming up opportunities for the business, whether it's a collaboration or, you know, weighing in on something creative. You know, I still spend time there. You know, I've signed up for more things than I probably should have, but, you know, I wish I everyone should be so, I don't know, I feel like saying no is just, it doesn't create opportunities. So, I'm throwing all that I can into the air and to see how much I can actually handle. I think, I don't know, I might look like a glutton for punishment. So, you know, it's like I'm launching a podcast next month.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  I'm like promoting this paperback. I'm, you know, I'm working on another book. I'm like, who knows? I mean, I want Girlboss to become its own thing. Girlboss should be, is, is so much more than a book. It should be a business. It should be, it should be conferences. It should be, it should be so many things beyond what it, what it is. It's just a matter of, of doing it, of making, making the time and finding the team and, oh my God, what am I going to start another business? I'm not sure, you know, but just doing, doing all I can with all that I have and connecting things that shouldn't connect is what really, really gets me excited because that's where, that's where invention happens and that's, that's where I get, that's where I just get

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  like really, really excited about things, so.

• 1:05:23Tim Ferriss?

  What, what were some of the key inflection points for, for the company? So if you look back over the last 10 years or whatever it is, what were some of the key inflection points that allowed Nasty Gal to become what it is, right? Because I can think back, for instance, with the Four Hour Workweek, I can think very specifically to like the day that Robert Scoble at the time put something on his blog was a clear inflection point. That was a clear inflection point. The appearance on Dr. Oz, clear inflection point. Meeting certain people, getting advice from, say, Michael Gerber, who wrote The E-Myth Revisited.

• 1:06:06Tim Ferriss?

  And before I even wrote The Four Hour Workweek, he said, "If you're gonna write a book, write a fucking book. Like, don't half-ass it because a mediocre book is more of a liability than a help." And blah, blah, blah, right? So, so I can point to very clear Introductions, meetings, what are some of those for you and Nastegel?

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say it was launching, I mean, the first one would be just launching eBay Store. The next one would be selling a Chanel jacket that I bought for $8 for over $1,000. The next one would probably be launching, launching the website and having it sell out just overnight. And then, pretty soon after that, hiring my first employee.

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  After that, it would be buying things that weren't vintage. So buying a small, medium, and large of something from a trade show and bringing in new brands and testing and seeing if our customer had an appetite for more than just vintage, which they did. And then it was like, I think, just, you know, scaling isn't, that's not a, that's not an inflection point. But what happened, we outcrewed our space in Venetia. I mean, we've moved so many times, but I would say after that, it was raising $50 million from Index Ventures.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  For me personally, it was Four Pages and Forbes in 2012.

• 1:07:37Tim Ferriss?

  How did the Four Pages in Forbes happen? Because there's often some backstory, right? Not, not all of them are just gifts from heaven that get dropped in your lap. And maybe this was, but how did that come together? I mean, that's a, that's a significant.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Wait, how did what drop in my lap?

• 1:07:52Tim Ferriss?

  No, how did it come together? I'm not saying it did drop in your lap. Forbes, yeah.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Um, oh my god, the way, the way media works is, well, it was, it was, it was someone who I met through Index. Her name was Julie Supan, and she was friends with someone who wrote at Forbes, and they were getting brunch, and she mentioned me, and this reporter got interested. And then, I had no idea what I was doing, I'd never talked to the media before. And then Julie, Julie used to run like PR at YouTube, and she, she consults for, for startups, and she's kind of like a maestro of all things publicity. And she was like, "Well, now that you have someone writing a profile on you in Forbes, you, you probably need my help."

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  So I, I don't know, she did a great job and, you know, so I hired her and she helped me, just coached me through it. She was like, "They're gonna want you to look like a billionaire." That's, that's their, you know, we've had to reshoot other stuff that I've worked on with Forbes because they didn't think that the entrepreneur in his hoodie looked like a billionaire. So, it's so funny, it's really funny, just how all of that works. And so now I show up at photo shoots and I'm like, "What do you want me to be? Okay, I'm bringing it." You know, it's like so dorky, but, you know, it's like, whatever, you just try to do your best. What was that, was that like? That was cool.

• 1:09:12Tim Ferriss?

  What was, what were some other pieces of advice that you got, or things you've learned about interacting with media?

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  God, I've learned so much. I feel like I could-

• 1:09:25Tim Ferriss?

  I'll give one, always do fact-check corrections via email and not phone.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's cool, that's smart.

• 1:09:32Tim Ferriss?

  You need a paper trail of that stuff. I've been misquoted so many times.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:09:38Tim Ferriss?

  Ah, yeah. And then that will sneak its way into Wikipedia and then it's a big, big quagmire to fix.

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  I mean, I think it's just that, like, the media always wants something to talk about and they can, they can skew things for their own, you know, for their own fun. And it's, you know, there's a time where I think I believed a lot of what I read out there and I still believe a lot of it, but when there's controversy, it's often just to serve, you know, clicks and, you know, get, I don't know, it's like, I don't know, I'm just kind of babbling. But be careful with what you say. And if you don't have anything to say, then just don't say anything. I think it's okay to say no.

• 1:10:24Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, definitely. And also, I mean, one thing that I've learned, because if you take something out of context, like one sentence out of a paragraph, it can make you look like, you know, a hero, or a complete ass, or a misogynist, or an asshole, or any number of things. So the context is so important. You know, what I've been doing for the last couple of years, if I send a response via email to a journalist, I'll just say- Thank you for using this in its entirety. I do not give permission to slice and dice this. If it's gonna be cut down, I need to give you permission.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:10:55Tim Ferriss?

  And not everybody responds well to that, but usually the ones who respond poorly to that, if it's diplomatically worded, are the people who already had an agenda to slant something in a really controversial, unnecessarily sort of incendiary way.

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  And even like the most, you know, the best, some of the best journalists I've worked with, they'll write a really positive story and then they'll throw in some shit just for their own credibility to make sure they don't sound like some big fan.

• 1:11:24Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:24Speaker 01

  So there's always gonna be some shit that they like say that you're gonna be like grumpy about, but it makes them credible and you just kinda have to like stomach it.

• 1:11:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, and you can actually, I mean, you can help them also, you can facilitate things by saying like, "Here are two or three of my detractors," but that can also give you, as long as they're, say, factual attackers. Does that make sense?

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, one said I walked like an ogre in heels and it's like, um, no, like I go go dance in public in fucking heels, I'm pretty sure I can walk in heels. It was just like, no, like, it's fine, but like of all the things, like, I can walk in heels, okay?

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  You know, like, just like pick something, just, there's plenty of things to criticize, Jesus, if you catch me in like a, you know, in the corner, I'm probably picking my nose, like, you know, just like find something real, talk about that.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  Plenty.

• 1:12:21Tim Ferriss?

  When are you happiest?

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  God, um, I'm happiest when I'm like running down a trail in Big Sur downhill a little, just a little downhill, like, and you jump and you feel like you fly like 20 feet, it's almost like a dream.

• 1:12:39Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yes.

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  I think that's the best feeling, is being like, "I'm in a video game, but it's real, like, this is real life," and I'm, it's like, yeah, I think just like, running down a trail in the forest is like maybe the best feeling ever.

• 1:12:55Tim Ferriss?

  That's such a good answer. That's a good answer. Uh, do you, side note, if you come back to San Francisco, I'm sure that'll happen at some point. There's a place called House of Air, which is basically a humongous building full of trampolines at different angles.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 1:13:12Tim Ferriss?

  And you can feel like you're in the Matrix. It's amazing. Uh, do you struggle with depression or anything like that? And you don't have to, I'm not.

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  Oh, totally.

• 1:13:22Tim Ferriss?

  It's not intended as.

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  Oh, totally. I've struggled with depression my whole life. Uh, I've been in and out of therapy my whole life. They tried to tell me I had ADD and give me some stuff in high school. And they tried to give me stuff for depression. It's made me feel super wired. Um, I, I think when I got busy, that went away. Um, more than anything, I think I struggle with anxiety. So I, I can hit the ceiling by like 11 a.m. Um, if something just doesn't go right. I mean, I don't like yell or pound my fists. I'm not like a person in the office who throws things. But if I'm like, if I'm not happy, ain't nobody happy, like in the room, basically. It's just kind of like, it's not so, I don't, I'm not good at like hiding my feelings.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  It's unfortunate and then there's people who value it and I try to keep those people around. Um, but, um, yeah, depression, depression's like a gnarly, a gnarly thing.

• 1:14:17Tim Ferriss?

  How do you, how do you contend with that? Uh, and I ask as someone who has similar ups and downs and has for as long as I can remember. But what are, what are your coping mechanisms?

• 1:14:29Speaker 01

  Um, if it's, you know, I, it's easy to point at things in your life that are out of your own control, like I've pointed at who, who's, I got married like three months ago, but I've, there's been times where I pointed at Joel and I was like, you're the problem. And it's like, no, you're just not, you're not solving your own problems. Like, I think you can just look everywhere outside of yourself to fix your problems. And thank God I'm not like, I don't have like addiction issues or anything, cause I'm totally, if that was, if I was, if that ran in my family, I'd be a total mess, I think. Um, um, I, I don't know, I've been, I've taken antidepressants at different times. Um, and some are better than others.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  Um, but I just, I generally like to stay pretty kind of, I don't know, alcohol? Alcohol can help. Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:15:18Tim Ferriss?

  That's, that's, so, I, yeah, I'm not, sorry.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  Alcohol reality TV, I'm telling you.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  I'm laying, I'm laying off the booze more now, though, but, um, I mean, I can have one glass of wine and I'm like the happiest, most like, uh, like charismatic, like, you know, just fun person when, and

• 1:15:41Tim Ferriss?

  effusive.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and when I'm not drinking, I'm like, you don't want to walk up and talk to me. Like, I'm not friendly. Like, I'm not unfriendly. I'm just not open, you know? I'm just kind of like stuck in my head, you know? I don't know.

• 1:15:53Tim Ferriss?

  What, what's your go-to wine drink? Or your go-to wine?

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, I, I like white wine. A lot of bars don't have, um,

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  white wine, but it would just be like, uh, I don't know, I started drinking Chardonnays. I like those. Oh, I got a Gewürztraminer. It's really good, right?

• 1:16:16Tim Ferriss?

  It's really good, very minerely.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  You know what's a good one is the Cliff family, the Cliff Bar people. I went to this thing in Napa. Oh, my God, it's so, I sound like so cool now, but I took a, I, I like went on a, on a bike ride. It was basically my, my investors have a retreat every year and all of their entrepreneurs and, and their, in the, in the, the, um, the partners at their firm get together and this is at the, at Calister Ranch, which is like the, a really beautiful place in Napa.

• 1:16:44Tim Ferriss?

  Gorgeous.

• 1:16:44Speaker 01

  Super, pretty fancy. And then they had these activities, you know, so you, you hear people talk and there's really cool people, like Jerry Yang spoke at the last one and, um, just, it's, it's, it's really interesting. And then they have this, you know, this, these, um, activities and one of them was, um, you know, road biking and road biking up to a winery and then having a glass of wine. I was like, yeah, I'm, I'm getting in shape for my wedding. Like, if I'm gonna drink wine, I should get on a bike first, right? And, oh my God, these, all these guys, they're all European for one. And they're like, you know, they're like wealthy guys who like have their own shoes and like all the clothes and like do this. They like do it as a thing, you know, that they're like those guys who

• 1:17:25Tim Ferriss?

  All the cycling, so they're like $5,000 worth of gear.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  I thought it was like, I was just like going on a bike ride for fun and I was just, oh my God, I was the only person that like didn't finish it. I had to get in the car and like get a ride to the top of the hill. Anyway, in the top of the, at the top of the hill was Cliff Family Winery. I don't know why I'm like, I'm like, I don't know them. I'm not, I'm trying to, not trying to like, plug anything. It was just like, I'd never heard of Gewürztraminer and I bought a few bottles and took, and like, had it shipped to my house and, um, yeah. I guess, I guess a white crispy wine.

• 1:17:57Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, super, that's super tasty stuff. Uh, Sancerre's pretty good. Go to for a lot of folks. The, uh, I guess, I usually do a gin tonic, sort of Hendrickson, a Hendrickson soda is kind of my go-to if I, uh, don't want to have a nasty, nasty headache, uh, or tequila, as you've seen.

• 1:18:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Tequila's gnarly.

• 1:18:20Tim Ferriss?

  You have to, you have to go with the good stuff if you're gonna do tequila. So the Casa de la Gornes is, uh, very expensive but very tasty. With that, no headache, I mean, you saw me, I had a fair amount to drink, but, uh, no headache the next day, no cognitive dysfunction, felt just fine. Uh, the, uh, when you think of the word, "successful," and I know that's a gnarly, dicey word, but who's the first person who comes to mind for you?

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, successful, the word success is really conflicted for me because it sells people this idea that there's like a destination. Um, I think there's people who can, have manifested things that, in the world that make more noise than other people, but success can just be, as being a stay-at-home mom, if that's your dream. Success can be, um, having a small business and keeping it that way and keeping, and laying low because that's what you want and that's the life that you want. Um, I really want, you know, and as someone who's public, it's kind of like a, it's a, it's a, it's a hairy thing because I'm out there and I'm, I'm, I have a book and, you know, I have a business and I sell

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  things and whatever, but it's, I just really want people to remember that they're capable of doing everything that the people they admire are doing. Maybe not everything, but if you're, don't be so impressed. I guess that's where, you know, where, where my head goes is, you know, there's no reason that you can't have the things that the people that you admire, that you admire have. And so, success just sells this kind of like ultimate destination when, even though...

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  I've accomplished something and you've accomplished something and whatever. It's like, you, I, I told you, I was crying last night. It's not like, we who, like, my, you know, I'm done. I've, I've arrived or anything like that. If you have any amount of hustle and any amount of humility, you know that, um, it all can go away tomorrow and that you should do everything that you can with it now, with what you have to today. Um, so I guess it's a very philosophical way of saying, when I hear the word success, I don't know what, Warren Buffett? I don't, you know, it's like.

• 1:20:33Tim Ferriss?

  Tough.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:20:34Tim Ferriss?

  It's tough.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:35Tim Ferriss?

  It's a tough one. You said, don't ask the cobbler if you're a bricklayer or whatever. I was thinking of Warren Buffett when you said that because he often says, don't ask a barber if you need a haircut. Which is, he's full of those.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:20:48Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, the, let, let me ask just a couple of, uh, rapid fire questions. You don't have to have rapid fire answers, but, uh, just because I, I know that people will ask me why I didn't ask them if I leave them out. What is your favorite document or your movie?

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  Hmm, my favorite movie might be a film called The Color, uh, The Color of Pomegranates. And it's by, um, this guy Sergey Paraginov. I'm not even sure if I pronounced it correctly. He was like a Georgian filmmaker and it's basically a moving painting. It's just one of the most, there's almost no dialogue. It's just one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen. And, um, I've been, you know, I grew up Greek Orthodox and I'm just still kind of enchanted with the, with Eastern, um, the visuals of like Eastern Europe. Um, yeah.

• 1:21:42Tim Ferriss?

  Sounds, sounds gorgeous. Yeah, I need to sort of fill up my roster, so I'll add that to the list. Uh, what are you world class at that people might not realize? Or what do your friends know you're world class at that the rest of the world doesn't know about?

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  Um, wait, um, what, what did I put on my thingy?

• 1:22:01Tim Ferriss?

  I don't know, I didn't read it. So for those people listening, I send, I could look it up. I send some of these questions in advance, just so people don't get totally stumped, which happens. But I didn't look at the answers, because I wanted to be fresh for conversation. I could pick it up. I could look it up. Bear with me a second, I'll pick it up.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I can use my brain.

• 1:22:27Tim Ferriss?

  That's okay, that's okay. It's, uh, so let's see, we got, uh, playing catch.

• 1:22:35Speaker 01

  Oh my god, yeah. Um, yeah, I guess playing catch.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I'm like, I can have really good coordination, to the point of it like being freaky. Like if I drop something, I can be like looking the other direction, like scratching my armpit with one hand, and then like swoop in, and like cat-like reflexes, like that happens sometimes. But it always, it even surprises me. And also, I'm good at playing catch.

• 1:23:08Tim Ferriss?

  Do you, I mean, did you play athletics or sports, growing up, or no?

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I played soccer. I mean, I played basketball, I played softball when I was like in third grade, and then I played soccer a lot. I snowboarded a lot. I never hacky sacked.

• 1:23:27Tim Ferriss?

  San Francisco awaits when you come back. We can have a, we can do some like hula hooping and devil's sticks.

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  You could teach me how to break, yeah.

• 1:23:36Tim Ferriss?

  I could teach you, I could give some basics. We could do six stepping, next time you come along.

• 1:23:42Tim Ferriss?

  What are the most common misconceptions about you?

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Um, oh, I think people, well, I met some people yesterday who thought, they were like, I was like, what is, what surprises you most? We spent some time, and I showed them the office, and talked to them about my business, and I was like, well, you know, what surprised you? And they said, well, you're, you're not as egotistical as I thought you'd be. And I was like, wow. I mean, that's not insulting. You're from the outside, you know, you put yourself on the cover of a book with your hands on your hips, and, you know, whatever, and maybe you expect something different, but that was, that was pleasant response.

• 1:24:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's better than the other way around. Like, wow, you're so much more megalomaniacal than I could have imagined.

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  Oh god, get me away from you.

• 1:24:28Tim Ferriss?

  If you could have a billboard anywhere with anything on it, what would it say and where would you put it?

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  Hmm, um, I could have a billboard. I'd put nothing on it and I'd put it everywhere.

• 1:24:42Tim Ferriss?

  Just an empty billboard?

• 1:24:45Tim Ferriss?

  You know, I'm gonna cheat here. I'm gonna go back and see if there's anything else that you'd... Stop telling women to smile.

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's just like such a grumpy billboard though. I changed my mind. I'd rather just have nothing. You project what you want onto the billboard.

• 1:25:02Tim Ferriss?

  But, okay, that's, that's, and since I've given you this, this imaginary billboard, you're entitled to do that. But I want to hear the backstory on Stop Telling Women to Smile. What's the, what's the, what's the story backstory?

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  Um, well, it's something that I've said. I mean, I've said just like, don't tell me to smile. Or like, I mean, if you're a girl who's not like, who, who a guy wants to talk to and you intimidate them because you aren't like giggling or whatever, they'll like take, it's like you're, we're there for your, we're there for your pleasures. I don't know what it is, but it's happened to me from as early as I can remember. Just like, you should smile more. Just like, oh, you look really pretty when you smile. And it's like, that's nice, thanks. Um, but there's something that's like, you're, you're here for me, so can you just smile if I have to like, look at you? You know, because you're making, like a woman, a woman evaluating me just makes me feel like emasculated or something, kind of, you know, like they just like, don't know how to handle it.

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  And it's really frustrating and honestly, pretty insulting. And then I found out that there's a woman named, what is her name? I mean, she has like this, she's an artist, I think she's in Brooklyn, and she started something called Stop Telling Women to Smile. And someone was telling me about it the other day. And her name is Tatiana Fazliz, Fazliz, oh my god, Fazlizade.

• 1:26:25Tim Ferriss?

  It's a tough name.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just a long name. I'm, I'm embarrassed of how I did that. But, um, she has like a, like wheat paste posters and like, kind of like a campaign, like Stop Telling Women to Smile, like I'm Not Your Baby, that kind of shit. Which is just, I wouldn't put, you know, if I could put one thing on a billboard, it would probably be nothing. Um, maybe Nasty Gal if it was free, you know?

• 1:26:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, what was your thinking process around stepping down, stepping out of the CEO role?

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, the things that I find myself, that I think I'm good at are not the things that a CEO wakes up every day to do. Running an executive team of C-levels who have more experience than I've been in business for. Or, it's like, like I said earlier, there's just a totally different skill set that comes with leading people and giving praise and repeating what we're all here to do. There's a lot of repetition, actually. And I'm the kind of person that's like, "What? You didn't hear me the first time?" Which is not...

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  I'm not saying I'm proud of that. I just think that's kind of how I... That's just like how I roll and I... It's a whole... There's an art to leadership.

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wanted to focus on the creative parts of the business. You know, the book kind of had its own... It kind of made me the face of the company, which I wasn't prior. And so there's things that come along with that that are good for Nasty Gal, but take my time and take me out of your office. And there's nothing worse than feeling like you've abandoned the people who are reporting to you, who need your time. It's just a matter of choosing. So I chose, and it was something that I'd been thinking about for a long time.

• 1:28:30Tim Ferriss?

  What was the first day like or night after you made the decision and it was...

• 1:28:39Tim Ferriss?

  You'd finally kind of made the call and knew that you were no longer going to be CEO.

• 1:28:44Speaker 01

  Um, I think it was just a lot of relief. A lot of relief and just feeling like I had done the right thing. I was really happy for Sheri, my CEO, and it just seemed kind of like a non-event to our team. I expected more of a reaction, but they were like, what's the difference Sheri is in all of the all hands meetings and she speaks and we know who she is. What's different? I don't think it was a huge change for most of our team, which felt good, yes.

• 1:29:14Tim Ferriss?

  That's great. That's huge. That's a big deal.

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I expected a lot more questions and I was kind of bummed that people weren't, they weren't like, they weren't like, they weren't like freaked out. They were like, okay, cool.

• 1:29:25Tim Ferriss?

  We've been waiting for years for that to happen.

• 1:29:29Tim Ferriss?

  Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I'm just kidding.

• 1:29:33Tim Ferriss?

  What $100 or less purchase has most possibly impacted your life in recent memory?

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  Um, I had a hamburger yesterday.

• 1:29:44Tim Ferriss?

  Hamburger? What kind of hamburger? I mean, was it a particularly interesting hamburger?

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, the one thing, I mean, I could, yeah, let me, I can think harder on this, but.

• 1:29:57Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, no, it's basically just inexpensive stuff that you get a lot of value out of.

• 1:30:03Speaker 01

  Let me think. I'm looking at my, I mean, a manicure. Manicures are like, pretty, they're good. They're like, they make you feel better, but they cost like, you know, I get gels, so I don't know, maybe they're like 20 or 30 bucks and

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  you don't hate your hands as much. I don't know. What else? Under $100. Not a lot is under $100. It's like a hamburger or, you know, probably, I mean, probably a glass of wine.

• 1:30:34Speaker 01

  Oh my god, that's the theme here.

• 1:30:37Tim Ferriss?

  It's a glass, no, glass wine's good. I actually bought one of my favorite bottles of wine I've ever had. I bought from Trader Joe's. They have great wine service. I mean, the people really know what they're talking about. It's four, four dollars for a bottle of white wine. And if you want to upgrade that, you get the, I really like Rhombauer Chardonnay.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, Rhombauer's good.

• 1:30:59Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, 2004, I think I had, which was amazing. And not that expensive. That was the first white wine I ever bought a case of. I thought I would never buy a case of white wine, ever. I've always been a red wine guy and Rhombauer Chardonnay was the one that made the difference. What is, what is the first 60 minutes of your day look like? Now, I'm gonna ask that a little retrospectively. When you were CEO of the company,

• 1:31:27Tim Ferriss?

  on a, on a, on a, on a day where you look back and you're like, fuck yeah, kicked ass today, what did the first 60 to 90 minutes of your day look like? Or what were your morning routines?

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I usually, and a day that ends well is one that started with exercise, that's for sure.

• 1:31:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, so cute.

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  I usually eat, you know, for breakfast. So I wake up.

• 1:31:50Tim Ferriss?

  What time, what time do you wake up?

• 1:31:52Speaker 01

  I don't know, like 6:30, 7? Most people are like exercising at 6:30 or 7, but I'm just, I don't know. I stay up. I'm like, I keep, I just keep weird hours.

• 1:32:05Speaker 01

  So I wake up, I take my Invisalign out of my mouth because I sleep with these braces in, basically. And before that, it was a mouthguard because they clenched my teeth because I'm a freak. But I recently botoxed my jaw so that I can't clench my teeth as much.

• 1:32:19Tim Ferriss?

  Whoa, so wait, you injected fat like into your mandible space?

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  It's just some thing that basically makes your muscle weaker. So that you like, don't, aren't such a, I'm like, I'm like Hulk smash. Like I've clenched my teeth like the fucking Hulk.

• 1:32:35Tim Ferriss?

  Oh no, I, I sometimes like wake up with blood in my mouthguard because I'm clenching my teeth.

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  I can tell just by looking at your face. That's what happens.

• 1:32:44Tim Ferriss?

  Would I have like really overdeveloped jaw muscles like a pit bull?

• 1:32:47Speaker 01

  I do. Let me look at, hold on, let me look at. I'll just Google you right now. No, but it does. That's what happens. You know, I have a jaw muscle that, no, you don't. Yeah, I don't have a strong jaw, but when you're a girl, that is like a kind of a masculine thing, whatever. But yeah, it also just you wake up with a headache. So I did that. That helped. I think that's helping actually.

• 1:33:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:08Speaker 01

  And then I wake up, I might pee.

• 1:33:12Speaker 01

  I chug water. I'll chug a bunch. I try to chug a bunch of water, but I don't always. And then I drink coffee with heavy cream in it.

• 1:33:22Tim Ferriss?

  What, how do you make your coffee?

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  We have a thing called a Jura, like J U R A, some company. And it's just like, basically you put the beans in, it grinds them. And it's just a coffee maker, I guess, but it's like a fancy coffee maker.

• 1:33:35Tim Ferriss?

  J U R A?

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  J U R A, yeah. And, but I put, I put hot water in the glass. I filled the mug up about halfway with hot water. And then I put the shots of coffee. I guess it's espresso. I don't know. Are coffee beans and espresso beans the same thing?

• 1:33:51Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, they are often roasted slightly differently. But my understanding is you're just using kind of more beans for the volume in the case of espresso. But the darker the roast is, my understanding is the lower the caffeine is, interestingly enough. But, uh, but yeah, you're basically making an Americano.

• 1:34:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're making Americano and we use David Lynch coffee. If you haven't tried it, it's pretty good.

• 1:34:15Tim Ferriss?

  David Lynch?

• 1:34:16Speaker 01

  Yes, he has his own coffee.

• 1:34:19Tim Ferriss?

  Are you serious? He not, he not only has Transatlantic Meditation Foundation in schools for at-risk youth. He also has his own, wow, man, I'm really lisping like hell right now, but he also has his own coffee.

• 1:34:33Speaker 01

  Totally. Look up David Lynch coffee. I just did. It's pretty good.

• 1:34:37Tim Ferriss?

  That's hilarious.

• 1:34:38Speaker 01

  My husband found it, but, um, and then, so I'll have.

• 1:34:41Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, so you have your coffee with, why heavy cream?

• 1:34:44Speaker 01

  I don't know. Someone told.

• 1:34:45Tim Ferriss?

  I'm a big fan of

• 1:34:46Speaker 01

  Someone told me it's like better for your stomach and now the whole thing is that like fat's good for you, so I care even less, but I already knew that, so.

• 1:34:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yep.

• 1:34:54Speaker 01

  Um, and then I'll have, um, one of maybe three things. I have rolled oats with, um, a little bit of honey and a little bit of milk and a little bit of salt with raisins usually, um, just made on the stove top, um, and then, or I will have, um, a pancake that I make out of rolled oats. So I crack four egg whites into a bowl and then I put two cups of dry rolled oats in and then I stir it around and the eggs kind of help the oats congeal. And then, yeah, and then I shape it into a pancake in a pan and then I cook, I like heat it up a little bit and then I put it on a plate and I put applesauce on it and

• 1:35:38Speaker 01

  a little bit of maple syrup and I eat it and it's really good. Um.

• 1:35:42Tim Ferriss?

  That sounds amazingly.

• 1:35:43Speaker 01

  It's, I mean, but it's two ingredients, which is crazy. Um, and it's, it, it looks, it doesn't look as good as it tastes. It's pretty decent. It's, um.

• 1:35:52Tim Ferriss?

  I bet that would be really good with like some nutmeg.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  So, yeah, or I eat, drink like a white smoothie, which is like, uh, has apple and Greek yogurt and some cinnamon. Um, and it's just like pretty simple, but so some of that stuff, some of those recipes came from this guy that I trained with named Harley Pasternak. Have you heard of him?

• 1:36:13Tim Ferriss?

  I have heard of that name. Yeah. Isn't, is, uh, he trains with UFC fighters, right? Or am I making that up?

• 1:36:18Speaker 01

  Probably. He's like a celebrity trainer type and he has people that work for him and I most.

• 1:36:22Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, you know what? I'm thinking about Mike Dolce, I think, instead of Harley Pasternak. Yeah, Pasternak, but Pasternak.

• 1:36:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, he has some books and stuff. Um, he's, he's awesome and I've just gotten some cool recipes from him. So those are his recipes. Um, and then I'll, I don't know, I guess I shower, you know, and then I'll, I'll go work out, you know, depending, uh, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't and then start my day. Sometimes I'll roll out of bed and have a phone call and, you know, I, you know, it's like, we have a call, we're on a kind of like a call now and it's like, I haven't showered. I don't know. I'm at home. Sometimes I'll have calls for a while before I go in the office. Sometimes I won't go in the office because I'm working on something that I need to focus on and that's hard to do in the office and, I don't know, every, every day is different, but they all start pretty much the same.

• 1:37:06Tim Ferriss?

  When you work out, what if you could only choose a couple of exercises for the rest of your life, what would they be? And the reason I'm asking is I saw this photograph on your Instagram account, which I thought was hilarious.

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:37:23Tim Ferriss?

  And it was you on a, I want to say an elliptical, and it said, "Preparing the centaur for her wedding day," or something like that.

• 1:37:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:32Tim Ferriss?

  And because you have very well, very well-developed glutes, I'll put it that way.

• 1:37:39Speaker 01

  This is a creepy conversation, I think I have to go. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

• 1:37:42Tim Ferriss?

  No, this is purely anatomical, speaking as an exercise physiologist. And so, those don't look like they came from ellipticals? Or is that just a God-given gift?

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  That's, I like, I can't.

• 1:37:57Tim Ferriss?

  Because when I think, now, you're Greek.

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  I'm Greek, Italian, and Portuguese.

• 1:38:01Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, all right, that expla, okay. So I knew only about the Greek part, and I'm like, not usually, like, if it was like, yes, I'm 80% Brazilian, I'd be like, okay, that makes sense.

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  No, and people actually like, get surgery and make their butts. It's like, I can't, if I wear a dress, like, the top fits, but then the, I can't get the bottom over my hips, or, and then, or if like, if the hips fit, and like, the top is too big, and I'm not gonna like, I don't know, I don't, I don't, I don't want big boobs. And then, like, if I wear pants, it's just weird. It's not, it's, it's like, it's, and it's weird that, like, our culture is like, into butts, because I think they're kind of gross, but.

• 1:38:40Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I mean, I think you just have to watch, like, Discovery Channel for 15 minutes, and see, like, presentation posture and all that stuff, and mammals have that fixation, I think. But, uh, the, not my intention to go there, but the exercises. So if you're exercising, before you get started with the day, and you could only pick a couple of exercises.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  I mean, you basically asked me why I have a big butt, like, that's what, is that just?

• 1:39:08Tim Ferriss?

  No, no, no, no.

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  No, no, no, it's fine, I'm not, it's just funny.

• 1:39:10Tim Ferriss?

  No, no, it's not, it's not just the...

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  What do you do, what do you do, well?

• 1:39:14Tim Ferriss?

  If you had to only choose a couple of types of exercise, not, not just for the butt, what would you?

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  Well, the thing about having a big butt is that, like, it can go to hell really fast, so, um, you have to, you kind of have to exercise. Um, I do deadlifts for my butt.

• 1:39:29Tim Ferriss?

  Good for you.

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  Or just in general, I do deadlifts.

• 1:39:31Tim Ferriss?

  Deadlifts are amazing.

• 1:39:33Speaker 01

  I do a lot of lunges. I do some, like, walking lunges and like some, I don't know, we do squat sometimes. Um, I'll, um, like, resistance training. Um, what else?

• 1:39:49Tim Ferriss?

  When you do deadlifts, are you doing sumo stance with your legs wide or your legs closer together, kind of like shoulder?

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  Um, they're a little beyond shoulder width and like slightly bent, I guess.

• 1:40:00Tim Ferriss?

  Right. And, and if you had to choose three types of exercise just for

• 1:40:05Speaker 01

  The rest of them.

• 1:40:05Tim Ferriss?

  the combination of like enjoyment and benefits for you, overall, what would you choose?

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  Um, probably like squat jumps, um, box jumps, and, um, let's see, like, shoulder presses? I don't know. That seems like you could get a lot, like, a lot of different things happen with those three exercises.

• 1:40:33Tim Ferriss?

  Right, and then you have the mountain, you have the trail running at a slight decline.

• 1:40:38Speaker 01

  If I'm a big surer, yeah.

• 1:40:39Tim Ferriss?

  For, for the flying effect. Uh, well, I only want to ask a couple more questions and then I will, uh, let you get back to your day, but this is, this has been very fun. What, what advice would you give your 30-year-old self?

• 1:40:52Speaker 01

  Um, it doesn't get easier.

• 1:40:57Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, I need, tell me more.

• 1:40:58Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know. I mean, I think, I think when you're, you're like, yeah, I'm like on to something, my business is growing, and, oh, this is so cool, I can't wait for a time when, you know, I can just like, you know, let go, or a time where I can, oh, man, this is just gonna be running itself someday, or I'm gonna, I don't know, like, or just, you, you think, um, you know, as you get older, I mean, yeah, you know more, you can handle things better, but it's the same, it's the same, you know, it's just, it's, it's just different stuff, I guess, and the challenges are bigger with bigger things. Um, and, you know, I think, I think it's easier to sell yourself or for maybe other people to sell you, that it's just like one vacation after the next, and hey, I have a great life,

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  I really appreciate everything that I have, and I've taken some great vacations, but just that, like, the, the hustle never ends, you know? But that was just a year ago, it was 30, a year ago, so, hmm, it would be like, hi, I don't know.

• 1:41:59Tim Ferriss?

  That's right, I keep forgetting that you're such a young and uh what um what are you most looking forward to in the next 12 months?

• 1:42:08Speaker 01

  Um, in the next 12 months, I'm looking forward to going to Tokyo. Um, yeah, we're going to Tokyo, my husband and I, for like a week and I haven't been since I was in high school and it's just, I know it's a cool place and I have some memory of it, but things are so different when you're an adult and I'm excited to to check it out and eat food. Now, I eat sushi, I didn't eat sushi when I was in high school, weird.

• 1:42:34Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah, now that opens up all sorts of doors. The uh, well, if you ever want to chat about that.

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:40Tim Ferriss?

  Just feel free to ping me. Um, give me, give me a call, I've spent a lot of time there and um actually have a two-part article on Tokyo on the blog that goes through some of the the smaller spots that I love, but that is exciting. Yeah, a week in Tokyo is something I think everyone should do. It's one of those completely alien places for English speakers where you can get completely lost, completely confused, even in the middle of the night and not really be in any danger whatsoever, which is great.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can like leave your purse, you know, on like, you can like give it to a bum and it's probably safe for an hour, you know?

• 1:43:19Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, right, purse check. And uh, it's a, just a fascinating, fascinating country. It forces you to question a lot of your own sort of social norms and behaviors, which I think is is really helpful. So that's uh, that is exciting, I'm super stoked for it. I'm gonna be headed to uh Korea for the first time, I've only been in the airport.

• 1:43:40Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 1:43:41Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, some of the, hopefully, hoping to head to Seoul and within the next month or two.

• 1:43:45Speaker 01

  That's exciting.

• 1:43:46Tim Ferriss?

  But uh, what, uh, do you have any ask or requests for my audience? And um, well, well, the question after this is gonna be where they can find you online and learn more about you and so on, but just in general, any like recommendation or request of my audience, any action they should take or things they should think about?

• 1:44:05Speaker 01

  Um, that's for their own good.

• 1:44:08Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, yeah, sure, let's do that.

• 1:44:14Speaker 01

  I don't know, compliment someone today. I don't know, say something nice to someone.

• 1:44:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, be nice, be nice. Uh, awesome. Well, I would love people to check out what you're up to. Um, you've done such, you've done so much for such a youngin'.

• 1:44:33Speaker 01

  Thanks, Tim. Yeah, with a big "Bye", thanks.

• 1:44:38Tim Ferriss?

  Well, that, of course, is a sort of high praise in my world, but the, of course, you have to. But where can people learn more about you, find out what you're up to?

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  Um, well, nastygal.com, that's like, you know, my reason for existing. And then, uh, you can follow me on Instagram and Twitter and Snapchat. It's Sophia underscore Amoruso. And I'm launching a podcast. Uh, I don't know, launching a podcast next month called Girlboss Radio. And you can read my book. It's called Girlboss.

• 1:45:15Tim Ferriss?

  Cool. Yeah, and people will be listening to this for quite a while. So look for Girlboss Radio, guys. And, uh, the book has, uh, 835 reviews on Amazon, four and a half stars, more than, I want to say, I'm looking right here, more than 70% are five stars. So the book's had a fantastic reception. And I appreciate you taking the time.

• 1:45:38Speaker 01

  Thanks, Tim. Thanks for having me.

• 1:45:39Tim Ferriss?

  Really fun.

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:45:41Tim Ferriss?

  Of course.

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 1:45:47Tim Ferriss?

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• 1:46:30Tim Ferriss?

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• 1:46:55Tim Ferriss?

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• 1:47:40Tim Ferriss?

  So, for me, it just covers the bases, takes a load off my mind, puts a lot in my body. And check it out. AthleticGreens.com/Tim. And until next time, thank you for listening.