#242 Pete Scobell - SEAL Team 6 Operator Breaks Down the Hostage Rescue of Captain Phillips

Pete Scobell is a former U. S. Navy SEAL Lieutenant with 17 years of service, including six combat deployments, best known as the real-life member of the SEAL team that rescued Captain Richard Phillips from Somali pirates in 2009, inspiring the film Captain Phillips. Scobell served in the United States Navy as both an enlisted and officer in the SEAL Teams. He served at SEAL Team EIGHT, ONE, SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team ONE and Naval Special Warfare Development Group. Prior to the Navy, Pete was a ski racer in New York State and the Pennsylvania State Champion in the Pole Vault. While working as a lifeguard for the state of Pennsylvania, he was awarded the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Resources Heroism Award for a rescue he made at Presque Isle State Park. A graduate of the United States Naval Academy with a BS in Political Science, he was the third (and last) enlisted SEAL selected to attend the United States Naval Academy. After a four-year hiatus from pole vaulting, he walked onto the Naval Academy Track Team (Division I), set the freshman record, and placed in the IC4As. He was also a starter on the A-side Naval Academy Rugby team. Scobell suffered a traumatic brain injury (TBI) from an explosion in Afghanistan in 2010, which ended his active duty career. After rigorous rehabilitation at the National Intrepid Center of Excellence, he transformed his experiences into advocacy for TBI and PTSD recovery, speaking to military audiences and veterans' groups. Transitioning to civilian life, Scobell pursued passions in music, releasing country-Americana albums like Wild (2015) as the Pete Scobell Band, acting in films such as Plane (2023) alongside Gerard Butler, and competing as a professional skier after a 17-year hiatus. A father of three and husband, he consults on security, writes, and motivates others through resilience stories, emphasizing mental health and second chances. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: Buy PYSOP - https://psyopshow.com https://betterhelp.com/srs This episode is sponsored. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/srs and get on your way to being your best self. https://bunkr.life – USE CODE SRS Go to https://bunkr.life/SRS and use code “SRS” to get 25% off your family plan. https://blackbuffalo.com https://meetfabric.com/shawn https://shawnlikesgold.com https://helixsleep.com/srs https://hillsdale.edu/srs https://ketone.com/srs Visit https://ketone.com/srs for 30% OFF your subscription order. https://patriotmobile.com/srs https://prizepicks.onelink.me/lmeo/srs https://ROKA.com – USE CODE SRS https://simplisafe.com/srs https://trueclassic.com/srs Pete Scobell Links: IG - https://www.instagram.com/pete.scobell X - https://x.com/PeteScobell LI - https://www.linkedin.com/in/pete-scobell-a066b0285 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/artist/62k89pP03yln7cMANadnQ1 YouTube (Pete Scobell Band) - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKKtdjkBgRv20sxrUre5QSg IMDb - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm14533987 Speaker Profile - https://speakerpedia.com/speakers/pete-scobell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Mr. President? My company tore me of the explosion on our rig.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  On October 2nd.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 0:38Speaker 02

  Tom Cruise is.

• 0:40Speaker 03

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  From the director of Birdman and the Revenant.

• 0:46Speaker 04

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stall, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 0:53Speaker 04

  I'm not the first then.

• 0:54Speaker 02

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 1:04Shawn Ryan?

  Pete Scobell, welcome to the show, man.

• 1:07Speaker 06

  It's an honor to be here.

• 1:09Shawn Ryan?

  It's an honor to have you. Been wanting to do this one for a long time.

• 1:13Speaker 06

  Yes, we have. What an amazing path we have come to be intertwined in at various points together.

• 1:22Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, no kidding, right? No kidding. It's gonna be heavy. It's gonna be a heavy interview, bud.

• 1:29Speaker 06

  It is.

• 1:30Shawn Ryan?

  I appreciate you coming, man. I know this takes a lot of courage.

• 1:33Speaker 06

  I appreciate you having me. And I, being here, I've avoided a lot of stuff in the last five years. And then we had these touchpoints and...

• 1:51Speaker 06

  It finally was like, okay. I wanna, I wanna talk, but I'm gonna talk to Sean, nobody else. So.

• 2:00Shawn Ryan?

  That means a lot, man. Thank you.

• 2:03Speaker 06

  I'm a big fan and you're doing a great job.

• 2:05Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 2:06Speaker 06

  I mean that, I, I, there's so much noise out there right now. There's so much noise. And, you know, trying to pull out what's real, what's not real.

• 2:20Speaker 06

  It's like you're being bombarded with the algorithm and, and

• 2:25Speaker 06

  trying to find the bits and pieces of truth in there. And then take the time to digest them and, and then filter them through the people that you trust. What do you think of this? Or what do you think of that? And, and I think in that mess, you're

• 2:44Speaker 06

  bringing a very reliable source of information. That's not, it's not saying, oh, believe this or believe this. It's saying, here it is. What would you like to do with it? And nobody else is doing that. And nobody but

• 3:00Speaker 06

  definitely not mainstream.

• 3:02Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, that's no kidding. I mean, I take it, you know, very seriously, you know, and, and I think we were talking about it last night at dinner, but

• 3:13Shawn Ryan?

  yeah, it's getting harder and harder to find any real truth. And so it's, you know, I'm trying to like

• 3:22Shawn Ryan?

  make people think a certain way. I'm just trying to give them information and then they do with it what they want, you know, but I think that's important. But, but let's get to you, man. You wanna kick it off with a prayer?

• 3:37Speaker 06

  Yes, but I wanna kick it off with something.

• 3:42Speaker 06

  So you sent me this book on

• 3:46Speaker 06

  June 11th, I think was the first day I read. Calling Jesus by Sarah Young. And you sent me a note and, and the note

• 3:58Speaker 06

  he said,

• 4:01Speaker 06

  it's great hanging with you. I know we don't know each other that well, but I feel like we're carrying somewhere around, carrying some heavy weight.

• 4:11Speaker 06

  I'll leave the rest of it, but.

• 4:16Speaker 06

  You said, basically, "This is an important book to you, and I think it'll be important, or important book to yourself, it'll be important to you as well." And so, I'm a big believer in anything, I'll try anything twice, I always say that. Someone says, "Hey, try this out," whether it was for TBI, or PTSD, all that stuff, I'll try it, because I want to know personally, is it work, is it not work? So I started reading this every day, and I would highlight it, as kind of a reminder. And so this morning, I got up, September 25th, and wanted to read it to you. "Pour all of your energy and trust into me.

• 4:59Speaker 06

  It is through trust that you stay connected to me, aware of my presence. Every step on your life journey can be a step of faith. Baby steps of trust are simple for you. You can take them with almost unconscious ease. Giant steps are another matter altogether. Leaping across chasms in semi-darkness, scaling cliffs of uncertainty, trudging through the valleys of the shadow of death. These feats require sheer concentration, as well as utter commitment to me. Each of my children is a unique blend of temperament, giftedness, and life experiences. Something that is a baby step for you may be a giant step for another person, or vice versa. Only I don't know the difficulty.

• 5:42Speaker 06

  Only I know the difficulty or ease of each segment of your journey. Beware of trying to impress others by acting as if your giant steps are only baby ones. Do not judge others who hesitate in trembling fear before an act that would be easy for you. If each of my children would seek to please me above all else, fear of others' judgments would vanish. As would attempts to impress others. Focus your attention on the path that is just ahead of you, and on the one who never leaves your side." The piece of scripture that that comes from is, "Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me.

• 6:27Speaker 06

  Your rod and your staff, they comfort me."

• 6:32Shawn Ryan?

  What does that mean to you?

• 6:40Speaker 06

  I think we're spirits having a human experience. We're not humans having a spiritual experience. And when you realize that, you realize this is all one big lesson. And

• 6:59Speaker 06

  the more that I bring Him close to me on a daily basis, the more I lean on Him, the less I worry about what's coming, the stronger I feel. And

• 7:15Speaker 06

  you know, you get to a point where you have these experiences and

• 7:21Speaker 06

  you want to share them because you hope that they'll help someone else who's in a shadow in the valley.

• 7:31Speaker 06

  And I feel like we've both been walking through a valley for a long time. And I just thought that was a really interesting read for our first, for this interview.

• 7:42Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, man. I think as much as we don't like to admit it, we like being in that valley, you know? It feels like home.

• 7:52Speaker 06

  Feel like where we do our best work.

• 7:55Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I love, I've loved that book, man. And, you know, a couple of years ago, Elijah, who you met, you know, he's a, he's the head of production here. He sent me a book because I've been, you know about my story. I've been trying to find, you know, truth and understand the Bible and all that kind of stuff. And that's really hard to understand. And Elijah had sent me, gave me a book for Christmas and it was all the things that just Jesus has said. It's a really good book. I can't remember the name of it, but it was still a little confusing. And then somebody else sent me that and that just really breaks it down, you know? And, you know, the three common themes that I've found is be more accepting, call evil out.

• 8:40Shawn Ryan?

  And

• 8:42Shawn Ryan?

  And um, just be like, you know, and I think that's the commonality, you know, throughout all of the Bible. And I think, you know, if we just, I think, yeah, if we were just a little more accepting and hearing another side or another, another perspective, you know, I think the whole world would, would look a lot different, a lot better than it does today. That's for damn sure. But it really, that book just breaks it down, man, into, into, you know, verbiage that dummies like you and I can actually understand. And it's almost, seems like a guide on how to live.

• 9:21Speaker 06

  I like it because it's, you know, I started cracking the Bible and you're like, okay, what does that, what does that mean? Where does this fit into things? And how does it relate to my day? And, and when I started reading that, it was just a, it's a constant reminder. And there's a constant theme that bleeds through every day. And that's just bring me closer. Just bring, just lean on me, bring me closer. And when you're struggling, you know, or take a minute, stop worrying about the things you can't control, or worrying about the past, be present in the moment. And I feel like that's like the common theme. And being present is like one of the hardest things to do.

• 10:06Speaker 06

  And when you think about time, it's like, it's just now. The future isn't there and the past is gone. And so much, I think when I was younger, and you probably like this too, but I was never there. I was always looking where I was going. And I was working through the moment, but I was never in the moment.

• 10:29Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 10:33Speaker 06

  I missed a lot and, you know, getting ready for this interview, going back and like reliving some of the experiences, a lot of them, it was heavy, but it was, and then things just opened up. I started going down rabbit holes that I was like, I was having these vivid memories, we were talking right before we started about the plant medicine therapy. You know, people, you know, I'm a first on 2019, but now we're, you know, I'm still benefiting from it. And that integration becomes a lifelong, I mean, for me, it's like, I was here and then

• 11:15Speaker 06

  I went here. And, and I'm still on that path. And so just being present and that book, it doesn't matter what you believe. Like, if you believe in God, just stop calling, everybody gets in arguments, what the name is, what the marketing is, who, what, you know, all the, but if you believe that God is everything, then God is in you, faith in God is faith in yourself. And the King of God is within you. I think you constantly go back to that.

• 11:55Speaker 06

  It becomes, with all the noise, and we're talking about all the noise that's happening right now, if you can just come back to that, it's like a, it's like a little island in the sea of chaos. And that just does it every day for me. So now I get up, I crack that open, I kind of already know what I'm gonna read. You know what I mean? Like, okay, you're here, let's go through this. But then there's little, little pieces and they put this, they put the different parts of scripture that, that back up what the statement is. But it's my morning ritual. And been fantastic. Good, man.

• 12:39Speaker 06

  Just fantastic.

• 12:40Shawn Ryan?

  Good.

• 12:40Speaker 06

  Thank you for that.

• 12:41Shawn Ryan?

  You're welcome. You're welcome. I read it at night before I go to bed. And then on my first year too, but I'm curious to see if the same things that hit me this year hit me next year, if it'll be totally different, you know?

• 12:53Speaker 06

  Started making notes on it after, like, what did I get out of that? What does that mean? And then I'll summarize it and I'll put a quick note down. Or other things that I see, I write in, you know, during the day. I just kind of keep it as a, not necessarily a journal, but as a running record of where my mind is.

• 13:14Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:15Speaker 06

  And when I get upset or mad, like, I have something to fall back on immediately. And it was interesting, the other, the interview you did with, I'm trying to remember his name, about the religion.

• 13:30Shawn Ryan?

  Religion business.

• 13:31Speaker 06

  The religion business. One of the takeaways from that was that the mega churches went to Stanford and did, they said, how do we deepen people's faith? How do we keep people in the seats? Right? And the study came back and said, an individual reading scripture and praying is the only thing that deepens your faith. Nothing to do with the, you can't do anything in your mega church. It has to be the individual. And I was like, oh, well, that makes a lot of sense because it's it well. It works.

• 14:06Shawn Ryan?

  It does.

• 14:07Speaker 06

  And it's always simple, keep it simple, stupid. Like, there you go.

• 14:12Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, Ben. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you got something out of that, man.

• 14:16Speaker 06

  I am.

• 14:17Shawn Ryan?

  It's been happy.

• 14:17Speaker 06

  More and more than I can ever express, so.

• 14:21Shawn Ryan?

  Ready to get into it?

• 14:23Speaker 06

  I am, dude. I'm definitely ready.

• 14:27Shawn Ryan?

  Good. All right. Everybody starts off with an introduction.

• 14:33Shawn Ryan?

  Pete Scobell, a Navy SEAL veteran with six combat deployments. You served at SEAL Team Eight, SDV Team One, and Development Group. Began your career as an enlisted SEAL before attending the United States Naval Academy. Only the third SEAL to ever do that. Leader of the Navy SEAL team, they conducted the rescue of Captain Richard Phillips from Somali pirates in 2009. Jumped into a country music career with albums like Walkin' a Wire and collaborating with legends like Winona Judd. A motivational speaker and also an actor with roles in films like Plane. A husband, father to three children, including Hollywood star Walker Scobell, and most importantly,

• 15:18Shawn Ryan?

  which we just covered, you're a Christian. So, couple things here before we get into the interview, right? So, you want a lip pillow?

• 15:28Speaker 06

  I actually, I got a, I got a, I got my own soft, supple lip pillow.

• 15:35Shawn Ryan?

  Let me put a session here real quick. I can't read with the shit in my mouth, but.

• 15:40Speaker 06

  Well, first of all.

• 15:42Shawn Ryan?

  We gotta wait till later.

• 15:43Speaker 06

  First of all, I want to start, I was also, I was on the mission, I didn't lead it. I was in charge of getting everyone to the target.

• 15:50Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 15:51Speaker 06

  And I was also, spent a large portion of my time at SEAL Team One. But, you know, since I'm very familiar with your team, I know, I know where they, I know where they're, they're lacking is, their research. We won't hold anybody personally accountable.

• 16:10Shawn Ryan?

  You can hammer him at the end of the interview here. But, yeah, by the way, thank you for introducing me to Jeremy. So.

• 16:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, sorry about that.

• 16:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, and, yeah. Apology accepted. But, dude, he's just been amazing and you called me, or you texted me and you said, "If you don't hire this guy, you're a fucking idiot." And I was like, "Well, that's not happening." And then I was like, "All right, maybe I'll call him and see what's going on." And dude, Jeremy's just turned out to be a fucking rock star. I mean. If you have a pulse in this world, we will find you and get in touch. Doesn't mean they're gonna say yes, but every single person that we've targeted, we've got a response out of and uh, and that's, that's all Jeremy, man. So, thank you for that introduction.

• 17:02Speaker 06

  It's really weird when that happened because I, I was, I had watched some of your stuff and I was like, oh, this is cool. Uh, I started watching your interviews and then you crossed paths with, then I recognized Cactus and Winona were, you were friends with them. And I was like, oh, okay, this is different because Cactus and Winona are family to me. And Cactus is just, I can't, I don't know where I'd be in this world without him. I absolutely love him like a father and, and so that, it wasn't that you were a team guy that gave you credibility in my mind. It was that you were with Cactus. And, and then I saw he was with you when you got baptized in the lake.

• 17:48Speaker 06

  And Jeremy's my roommate from prep school all the way through graduation at the Naval Academy. And Jeremy had retired and was living up in the, off the grid by himself with his family and kind of doing what he was doing. And he, I had come down and meet, I met, or met you at Winona's birthday party in passing. We had a quick conversation. And um, and Jeremy didn't know that I knew you or Cat or any of that. And Jeremy said, uh, called me one day. We're just catching up as normal. And he was like, I feel called to respond to this X post that Sean Ryan has about being his producer. And I was like,

• 18:32Speaker 06

  okay, do you, you realize you're gonna have to leave where you're at and go here? And do you, do you want this? Do you really want this? And he said, yeah, I feel called to it. And I was like, all right, hold on. That's when I texted you. I was like, let's see if this happens. Who knows? Let's see if, see if this calling works. Um, but his background is just unbelievable. And I, I could, I saw how you thought and I saw how, I know how Jeremy thinks. And I'm like, I think this is exactly what. You need it. And I hope that worked out.

• 19:08Shawn Ryan?

  It's been a perfect fit, man.

• 19:10Speaker 06

  And then you got Eric as well.

• 19:13Speaker 06

  It's funny, I walk in here and I'm like blast from the past, you know, with the with your team. It's like my, my family.

• 19:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, it was interesting being the only enlisted scumbag at dinner last night. That's for.

• 19:27Speaker 06

  But I was like, this is fitting.

• 19:32Speaker 06

  Look at this. Three officers and the man at the head of the table is the enlistee. The way it's supposed to be.

• 19:39Shawn Ryan?

  Right on, man. But, um, all right. So I got a couple gifts for you before we start here, right? So first one.

• 19:49Shawn Ryan?

  Vigilously gummy bears made in the US, made in the USA. No funny business, legal in all 50 states.

• 19:57Speaker 06

  That's a bummer.

• 19:58Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah, well, you know. We go out to California and get the good ones, but those are just candy and.

• 20:08Shawn Ryan?

  Think you'll appreciate this one.

• 20:10Speaker 06

  Oh, my God, dude.

• 20:19Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 20:21Shawn Ryan?

  So that is the Sig Sauer P226 Legion. So, you know, we're team guys. Pretty sure you probably carried a 226 when you were in. It was in that timeframe, right? And so they've upgraded it. It's no longer a double action. You know, no decocking lever, but that thing is a Cadillac, man.

• 20:42Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 20:43Shawn Ryan?

  So thought you might like that.

• 20:45Speaker 06

  This is amazing, dude. Can't wait to, uh.

• 20:51Speaker 06

  Use that on that range out there.

• 20:52Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, well, we'll do it on the first break here.

• 20:54Speaker 06

  All right. Give me some instruction.

• 20:58Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, okay.

• 20:59Speaker 06

  I'm serious, man.

• 21:01Shawn Ryan?

  Right on.

• 21:02Speaker 06

  Hey, you know, that's life is about learning and.

• 21:07Speaker 06

  I have a gift for you as well. I have two gifts for you.

• 21:10Shawn Ryan?

  I love gifts.

• 21:12Speaker 06

  Jeremy said, hey, can you find something that would be cool to hang in the uh in the uh studio? This is the ripcord from the my shoot on the Captain Phillips mission.

• 21:29Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit. Are you serious, dude?

• 21:32Speaker 06

  It was sitting in a box in my basement. I wasn't gonna do anything with it and and um this is a

• 21:41Speaker 06

  Paul Simon patch from that. That was also in the box in the basement. I was probably gonna get thrown away. Yeah.

• 21:49Speaker 06

  Flags.

• 21:51Shawn Ryan?

  Dude. Get out of here.

• 21:55Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 21:59Shawn Ryan?

  What is that?

• 22:00Speaker 06

  It's a Viking, gray squadron Vikings.

• 22:03Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 22:06Shawn Ryan?

  Well, that's gonna be framed. Put in here. I'm gonna have to be sign that flag.

• 22:10Speaker 06

  Sure, man.

• 22:11Shawn Ryan?

  So. Thank you, dude. Wow.

• 22:15Speaker 06

  I don't have any. It's interesting at home. I don't have anything hanging on the walls. I don't have any plaques. I don't have any. It's all hidden away somewhere and forgot even had that. And I was thinking, I'm like, what do I give them? Um, then I'd seen some of the videos in here. I'm like, well, maybe you can find a new squad.

• 22:36Shawn Ryan?

  Dude. Thank you.

• 22:38Speaker 06

  Another thing I got, that was uh

• 22:41Speaker 06

  because we uh uh ride the short bus, um I found this hero bible.

• 22:46Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 22:47Speaker 06

  It has pictures in it.

• 22:48Shawn Ryan?

  Dude, I have something similar. That's the action bible.

• 22:51Speaker 06

  The action bible. This is really cool, man.

• 22:53Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 22:54Speaker 06

  Anyways, uh I do great with a a little bit of words, lots of pictures.

• 23:02Shawn Ryan?

  I read a lot of picture books.

• 23:06Shawn Ryan?

  I read a lot of picture books. Dude, thank you. Thank you. I don't have this one.

• 23:12Speaker 06

  I just thought it was cool. Uh, I see my sons are always reading the, uh, you know, that anime, the anime books and they're these huge comic books and they're really into them. And when I saw that and I was like, oh, let's give this a shot. I thought you might.

• 23:27Shawn Ryan?

  I love it.

• 23:28Speaker 06

  Anyway.

• 23:29Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 23:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, man. I thought that was cool. Thank you for, uh, uh, thank you for the, the boomstick, the gummy bears.

• 23:38Shawn Ryan?

  My pleasure. All right. So one last thing before we get going. I've got a Patreon account, it's a subscription network and, uh, we've turned it into one hell of a community. A lot of these guys and girls have been here since the beginning when I was doing this out of my attic. And, um, you know, and in all honesty, they're the reason that I get to sit here with you here today is, uh, because of them. So I offer them the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question. So this one is from Winona Judd.

• 24:09Shawn Ryan?

  Could you share the story of events the night before and on the first day you started recording your debut album?

• 24:21Speaker 06

  Yes. So, all right, I'm a, I, I grew up playing rock music and the Dead and Phish and grunge era. Like, you know, that was not like a

• 24:32Shawn Ryan?

  You're a hippie.

• 24:33Speaker 06

  I'm a total hippie dude. I'm a, I'm a total hippie. Uh, and long story long, I got this, I had written a song, kind of got putting into the, like a last minute for a movie and it got, you know, like, we can't really use it. It got floated around and it was just, I was getting out. I had like 24 hours of writing, it went away. I didn't think anything of it. And, um, out of the blue, I get this phone call from this guy named Cactus and he says, uh, hey man, um, working with this guy Christian, who's producing this movie called, um, The Hornet's Nest. And we got your song and I was wondering if you want to come to Nashville and record an album. And I was like,

• 25:12Speaker 06

  Okay, I didn't know, I didn't know Cactus, I didn't know, and I knew who the Judds were, obviously, but I wasn't like a, you know, big, you know, diehard country fan. And, uh, so Cactus is like fly to Nashville and, and we'll, you know, we're gonna cut this album over these days and, and I didn't really know him. I, Christian producer of movies, like, yeah, he's a great guy, he's Winona Judd's husband, he's drummer. And I said, okay, huh, all right. Like, again, I'll try, I think twice, like, how often do you get to go to Nashville and record? And this would be amazing. Or it's gonna be horrible, or whatever, let's go try it. Like, and so, uh, fly, fly here to Nashville, I get off the plane and got my guitar in my hand. And you know, when you're, you're

• 25:57Speaker 06

  coming through, uh, the airport, there's like a little stage right before you go to baggage claim. And there's a dude playing guitar and singing and, and he's looking at me, like nods his head, you know, and I'm just like, this is a horrible idea. What the hell was I thinking? And went downstairs and got a rental car and I drove to meet Cactus. And, um, we, so we sit down, we have lunch together and I had scheduled a, booked a hotel. And he goes, uh, come on, you're gonna stay at the house. And I said, well, I got a hotel. He's like, no, no. Why, I want you to stay at the house. And I was like, okay, uh, we'll do this. So, my first night in Nashville, we drive to the house.

• 26:40Speaker 06

  And at the time, you've been over there, the time it was completely under construction. I mean, it was like a hundred, 100% construction by plywood floors, like, dogs running everywhere and, and there's barely any lighting. And I walk into the kitchen that has got a plastic table. And Wy had put like a, a tablecloth on it, her son Elijah was there. And, and we got in takeout and, and Wy is all dressed in black and she's got her long red hair. And I'm just like, oh my God, like, this is the, this is the queen of country music. Like, and I'm in this, it was just sort of kind of a surreal moment, but very real in

• 27:19Speaker 06

  the fact that like, you know, it wasn't fancy. It was like, we're having takeout and we're gonna talk. And so I sat down, I ate, and Wy was nervous. And I was like, why are you nervous? I should be nervous. You're like the, you're like the queen. And we had a steel bowl. She goes, what kind of music do you like? And I'm like, well, I like everything. And she immediately goes, name one song that I sing. And I'm just like, I'm just sitting there. I'm like, grandpa?

• 27:49Speaker 06

  Thank God I knew one song. And she's like, do you know anything else? And I was just, I was thinking to myself like, why me? And she's like, that's an easy one. And I was like, oh shit, that's a song.

• 28:03Speaker 06

  And I'm like, what did I get myself into? And so we pulled out our cell phones and we started playing music and we didn't have a sound system. So we would take the phone and we'd put it in the steel bowl and that was our speaker for the night. And I had my friends in Colorado owned a distillery, Woody Creek Distillery. And I asked Cactus, like, hey, I need to send you guys out like a, you know, a gift. So I had sent out some Woody Creek vodka, potato vodka. It's unbelievable.

• 28:31Speaker 06

  So I sent that out and we finished dinner and Wy comes over and takes a bottle, puts it on the table and goes, we're gonna talk. And I'm just like, oh, boy. Oh, man. So Wy and I started drinking and we're going, Cactus started, it's supposed to be in the studio in the morning, right? And eight in the morning, I'm still in the chair and Wy's yelling at me, what am I not interesting?

• 29:01Speaker 06

  But we talked about everything. I mean, we talked a lot of stuff that we're gonna talk about tonight. We talked about like life and death and parents and

• 29:13Speaker 06

  and Wy just, Wy and I had this, I didn't know enough about her as a, as a, I knew who she was, but I didn't know anything about her background, right? And she didn't know anything about me. And so we met in this place of just this neutral moment. And it was

• 29:32Speaker 06

  She immediately became this like rock in my life that night. And Cactus rolls into the morning and I don't know if you're Cactus, he's missing his left leg. Got hit in a head on collision on a motorcycle and lost his left leg, which in itself is an amazing story. And, um, but in the mornings, you know, he's sitting in a wheelchair. He rolls in in the wheelchair in the morning. He's like, what the hell? We gotta be in the studio in the morning and he's asleep in a plastic chair. Like, how are we gonna pull this off? And he's like, get up. So we make coffee and we go in and that kicked off my, my first album.

• 30:08Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 30:09Speaker 06

  In Nashville, uh, meeting Winona. And she's been in my life pretty much every day since.

• 30:17Shawn Ryan?

  That's awesome, man.

• 30:18Speaker 06

  In some way, shape or form.

• 30:19Shawn Ryan?

  They're great people. Great people.

• 30:21Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 30:22Shawn Ryan?

  You never know what you're gonna get when you meet somebody like that, you know? And they're just down to earth, real people. And, uh, yeah, it's, I mean, that's, that's getting hard to find anywhere, let alone in, in the entertainment.

• 30:35Speaker 06

  And it wasn't until, um, it wasn't until we went on our first tour together, the Songs and Stories Tour. I opened, I was opening up for her and after I finished my first, it's kind of a fun, that again is a funny story because I'm standing on the side of the stage and Y usually hides in the bus until it's her time to go. She walks up, she, she goes, and I'm getting ready to go on stage and we're in, we did like these smaller, um, uh, like 3,000 person, very intimate Songs and Stories. And she walks up next to me, she goes, okay, so here's the deal. No one here came to see you. It's like, I know that. She goes, and you don't get a band.

• 31:20Speaker 06

  She goes, if you can win them over, then you might have a chance in this industry and I'm gonna be praying for you. And, uh,

• 31:29Speaker 06

  I just, you know, they announced me and I walked out on stage and I'll never forget that, that, the, just, and she just smiled and nodded and went back to the trailer. And I finished my first set and I wanted to see her, so I went around to the sound, uh, sound booth in the back when she came out on stage. And she walked out by herself, all dressed in black. And beforehand, the band praised backstage, Cactus leads a prayer. So we do the prayer and I hurry up and run around to the front and I'm standing with the sound guy and Y walks out alone, one spotlight. And she sings Pretty Bird a cappella. And I get chills.

• 32:12Speaker 06

  I, I've, it is, to hear her that, it is the, it's the voice of God. And, and I didn't realize in that moment, all the stuff that we had talked about and all the pain that she had been through in her life and, and we had shared. And then I heard her voice and I was like, oh, that's, you, you, you have to carry that. Like, that's what you're, you have to give this away. And it's a lot for her. It's a lot. And when you, when you just hear, and you don't see too many artists in Nashville that walk out alone without a band and they just, you know, get after it.

• 32:57Speaker 06

  Because everybody's hiding behind something and she doesn't. She just walks out there and bears her soul and I get chills. And that's, that entire tour, I would go out to the soundstage just to listen to her, just to watch her. Wow. Do that. I have so much admiration for her and all the stuff she's been through, especially in the last year. Um, and then back to the stadiums and, you know.

• 33:26Speaker 06

  It's just a, I don't know, every time I go over there, I was there yesterday. Time I go over there, I walk in the kitchen and it's now it's beautiful. It's all finished, you know? And I'm just, I'm like laughing. Just remember this first, first night, first days of who are these people? And what are we getting into? What is this? It was such a great, such a great part of my life.

• 33:51Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for sharing that, Dan.

• 33:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, I love them. I love why I love Cactus, Elijah, their son, who's a police officer, like a brother. This are treasures.

• 34:05Shawn Ryan?

  They're great people. Let's get, let's get into your story here. You ready?

• 34:10Speaker 06

  Yep, I think so.

• 34:12Shawn Ryan?

  All right, man. Where'd you grow up?

• 34:16Speaker 06

  Born and raised in Erie, Pennsylvania. My father was 51 when I was born. My mother was 25. My father was a, was an attorney, World War II vet. He had gone to Phillips Academy, Andover, and wanted to enlist to be in the airborne. Catch, he was trying to get into combat and got into the army, took some tests and they made him a bombardier and put him in the Army Air Corps. And he went to, became a bombardier navigator on a B-17. And he finished his time, didn't, he got over, I think he got over to England, missed

• 35:00Speaker 06

  the war and then they came back. He did his four years, he got out and his parents at the time were living in Chicago. And so he went to Chicago and they said, there's a school up the road, Northwestern. You should go check it out. And he had the GI Bill then. So he went to check out Northwestern and he ended up loving it. So went to Northwestern.

• 35:24Speaker 06

  Doing great till senior year, played a fraternity prank and he got kicked out. And in that time, his parents had moved back to Erie. So, but he had already been accepted to law school there and at Northwestern. And so they said, your punishment is you got to graduate from somewhere else. You can still go to law school, but you can't get your degree from here. So my dad went to Allegheny. He finished one semester at Allegheny, he got his degree and then went back to Northwestern undergrad. Or then he got his masters in economics and his law degree. And then they moved back to Erie to start his own law firm. And a lot of this, part of the reason why I'm doing this is for my kids. Because like his, I never met my grandparents.

• 36:07Speaker 06

  I didn't know, you know, like a lot of this for me is, was hanging on my mind. Like, like, what were these stories? What are my, what are my kids, what are they gonna know? But anyways, so this is, you know, my dad, he comes back and starts his own firm. He gets married, has a couple of kids and he gets divorced. And I have a half brother and a half sister that I don't really, we met a few times and we had a brief relationship, but it wasn't a lasting thing. And he was working as an attorney, he was very successful.

• 36:47Speaker 06

  And then meets my mom, who at the time was a, she was going to Edinburgh University and studying music. She was a viola player and also playing in the Philharmonic in Erie. My dad was just a newly divorced attorney. And he starts dating her and they date for like, get married. I think when she was around 21 and, you know, he's in his late 40s. And I'm pretty sure I was an accident.

• 37:20Speaker 06

  And here I show up, you know, he's 51 and my mom is 25, 25 at the time. And he had this house out in the country and we had a horse stable there. My mom, parent from pictures and whatnot, she loved horses. She was, was a musician. She would go to parties and pull out a guitar and sing and everyone used to tell me stories about her and she was this vivacious, beautiful woman. And part of what they used to culture back then was they would, in the winters and eerie, we used to get tons of snow. And so everybody had snowmobiles. And the snowmobile crew, they would trail ride all over and they would go bar hopping.

• 38:03Speaker 06

  And one night, I was, I must've been around 10 months old at the time. It was March. The crew came by the house and said, hey, come on, let's go out. My dad had just bought my mom a brand new John Deere 340 Lico Fire, uh, snowmobile. My dad said, you know what, I'll watch Peter, why don't you go out? You haven't ridden this new snowmobile yet. And so my mom went out with her crew. And in Gerard, a few miles away from our house, there's a big open field. And the story goes that my mom got in the open field and wanted to see how, see what this new snowmobile can do. And she hammered down on it and she hit a fence and was killed immediately.

• 38:48Speaker 06

  And so their friends were there and she, you know, they came upon her and she was gone. And so here's my dad, 51 years old and now he's got a 10-month-old baby. And he was not prepared to be a father in that capacity. And we had, we had a family from right near us that was helping the Berkels. And at the time, my mom had help from one of the daughters, Beech. And they were German immigrants. And Beech was actually born in Germany. And she came over and her brother Ralph was actually born in Germany as well. Spoke German in the house, the father Rudy, beautiful, wonderful man.

• 39:33Speaker 06

  He was a butcher. And, and Beech was helping with me. And my mom dies and she just kind of goes full-time. And my dad ended up, he-

• 39:46Speaker 06

  Post that, he kind of fell apart in like a big way. Lost his practice, you know, he'd gone from this successful attorney and he just kind of, I think, from what I can gather, he stopped kind of working. He went into a depression. He was a pretty heavy drinker. Very smart, but very ruthless with his words. And so Beech stepped in and started taking care of me and my dad married her. And she was with, she was my mother. She was the one that I identified with. And

• 40:26Speaker 06

  my dad wasn't nice to her at all. He was really mean to her. And as I got older, I started to see this.

• 40:36Speaker 06

  They got divorced and What age? I was probably six when they got divorced.

• 40:45Speaker 06

  That was when my dad's world was really coming apart. The IRS, he hadn't paid taxes. He had lost kind of everything. He had sold our main house and I just recently remembered going through the adoption proceedings. My dad decided, you know, to give me to Beech. And so I remember being in the judge's chambers. Judge said, hey, who do you want to live with? And I was like, I want to go with her. And the judge was a friend of my dad. And I think my dad changed his mind at the last moment and said, no, he's not leaving. Cause she had decided to move and her family was moving to Texas.

• 41:28Speaker 06

  Moved into a new house and I would go visit her and I'd stay at the house all the time. And the brothers were like my uncles. And one day she came to the house and she said, I'm leaving. We're going to Texas. And said goodbye to me. And in that moment, and post Ibragaine and therapy, but in that moment, I had this like

• 41:54Speaker 06

  They had told me stories about my mother and I'd seen pictures. But, but I had a mother. So it wasn't like a priority. You know what I mean? It was like there, but it wasn't there. And then all of a sudden she was gone. And I remember laying in my bed and I, I still, we go back to this moment. It was like the most horrific feeling. I felt like I was being torn apart in every direction and I couldn't sleep. I watched the sunset and I had this overwhelming feeling that nobody was coming for me. My dad didn't want me and she was, she was gone. You know, no, you're not picking up the phone and calling.

• 42:36Speaker 06

  And then here was my, the pictures of my mom and my dad was like, you know, and I started asking questions. But that, I go back to that moment because what I found is that with our community,

• 42:51Speaker 06

  I think a lot of people go through a, something like, something at a young age that makes us driven, that like puts lights this fire inside of us that makes us want to achieve.

• 43:07Speaker 06

  And mine was fear. Nobody's coming for me. My dad would always tell me that and I'm going to die at any minute. Right after my mom died, my dad had a catastrophic heart attack and was, and he was in the CCU and he was a heavy drinker. And the physician actually told me like, your dad left the CCU and walked down. He was at Hammond Hospital, walked down to the, there was a bar, the buoy. And he's like, I found your dad sitting at the buoy in his, in his robe, like having a drink and smoking his filterless Pall Mall. So he's just like, I don't care anymore.

• 43:39Speaker 06

  Like he, he was just constantly telling me like, I'm going to die at any minute. You got to figure this out.

• 43:45Shawn Ryan?

  How old are you at this point?

• 43:47Speaker 06

  I was about seven or eight.

• 43:48Shawn Ryan?

  Seven or eight years old?

• 43:50Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 43:51Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, what specifically would he say?

• 43:54Speaker 06

  Just, it was a constant reminder like, hey, listen, you know, I'm not going to be here. And so after Beach left, He took me out to this, took me to Ohio to a family that was, he was friends with. And we're gonna stay a week. And he goes, uh, we're kinda hanging out, they have two boys, the buckles, they're very nice. My dad, like, oh, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go home for a little bit. He, he goes home and I, I overheard the family, like, well, you know, we gotta enroll them in school and we gotta figure this out and, and during while he was gone, they took me to the local school, enrolled me in school, and I was like, hey, what, what's going on here?

• 44:38Speaker 06

  And, you know, they were like, well, your, your father's, he was suicidal at the time. And he was ready to like, hey, this kid needs it better than I can help him, better than I can give him.

• 44:55Speaker 06

  And I figured he, I'm like, oh, he's, he's leaving me with these people. And he came back to visit and I crawled in the car and I was like, I'm not going. I'm not going anywhere without you.

• 45:06Speaker 06

  And

• 45:08Speaker 06

  he just kinda looked at me. I don't remember packing, I don't remember any of it, but I remember getting in the car saying, I'm not getting out. Like, you're not leaving me. We drove back and

• 45:23Speaker 06

  you never, you know, we, we went home and, and it was just a

• 45:29Speaker 06

  it was an aw- it was just a lonely, I mean, the feeling of loneliness still haunts me. Like, it still really haunts me, it did. And

• 45:45Speaker 06

  some of the families in the area, um, I, there were, knew what was going on. Started calling my dad, saying, hey, you know, he's getting to this age, you should, you should enroll him in soccer. You should enroll him in sports and so-

• 46:02Speaker 06

  But I lived out in the middle of nowhere. I mean, I was 10 miles from anywhere where there were other kids. So we had, we still had snowmobiles and my dad had this kind of remnants of toys. We had, he called it the toy barn and there was three, he bought me a three wheeler. And we had a pond in our front yard and I would spend my time in the woods with a BB gun or fishing in the pond. And I would talk to my mother, just talk to her. And I had this relationship. And when I did my first Abigail journey, I was back in that, in the woods, walking around and it put me back into those moments.

• 46:47Speaker 06

  And I didn't feel lonely when I would go in the woods and talk with her. I just, that was kind of my sanctuary. I never felt lost. I felt where I was supposed to be. I felt loved. And then my dad started signing me up for sports. You gotta stay busy.

• 47:07Shawn Ryan?

  I'm super excited to announce a project that I've been working on. I partnered with Ironclad for their newest original series, Target Intelligence Psyop. It's an eight-part audio experience where we find out who is really pulling the strings. Enjoy this trailer and stay tuned to the end of the show to listen to the prologue. Buy it today at psyopshow.com. Link is in the show notes. The stakes have never been higher. Do you feel it? That something's off?

• 47:50Shawn Ryan?

  What if none of this is real? For decades, wars have been fought in silence. No bullets, no bombs, just influence. They're called psychological operations, psyops.

• 48:07Shawn Ryan?

  What if it's all designed for you?

• 48:11Shawn Ryan?

  Find out who's really pulling the strings.

• 48:15Shawn Ryan?

  I'm Sean Ryan, and this is Target Intelligence: SciOp, an Ironclad original. In this eight-part audio experience, we uncover the ghosts in the machine. Buy it today at sciopshow.com.

• 48:37Speaker 06

  What would you talk to your mom about? Everything. I'd just have a conver- I'd be like, "What kind of tree is that?" I could quite literally, like, "Where are those bugs from? Like, is that an anthill? What do you think?" Like, I was a kid having just a conversation with somebody who wasn't there. But they were, if that makes any sense. It was like this. And then I found her, she had a guitar. And there was- I found her guitar, and I picked it up, and I started trying to play it. And I went to my dad, I said, "Hey, can I take guitar lessons?" He's like, "No." He- anything I had to do with music, he was like, I think it was too painful for him.

• 49:20Speaker 06

  At one point, I said, "Hey, can I- can I- can I try acting?" My dad was like, "No, not doing that. You can do sports." And so, I was kind of this lost kid, sitting in the- sitting in my room and playing around in the yard alone, talking to his mom. And we had a couple of kids in the neighborhood, and a couple of families. The Supers that lived across the street from me. Mrs. Super would step in, and she would pick me up on Sundays and take me to the Methodist church and try to- try to, you know, put me in Sunday School. And it didn't- nothing really took from me, but she cared enough. And in the mornings for school, I would walk up, and I would get on the bus with David, her son, who's a wonderful human being.

• 50:06Speaker 06

  And I would- you know, she'd feed me breakfast, and I'd get on the bus and go to school.

• 50:11Speaker 06

  The summers, my dad, when he was a successful attorney, joined the country club at this point, he was, we're still a member because he had paid the initiation fee, but we weren't, wasn't active in it. And they had a swim team. So one of the parents said, you should, you're still a member there. You should sign them up for the swim team. And so my dad signed me up for the swim team. And, but instead of driving me the 10 miles, he was like, I bought you a bike. So you're going to get up in the morning, you're going to ride to swim team practice. So I get up in the morning, it was about 10 or 11 mile ride, and crank on the pedals, I get to swim team practice. And that's where I had my first group of friends, buddies that were, you know, we'd meet there the first thing

• 50:56Speaker 06

  in the morning and swim for an hour. And the coach at the time is a guy named Dave Utley. And Dave is this larger than life person to me. He was a, he'd break, broken every record in swimming at Fairview where we were in school. He'd been, went to Penn State, swam for Penn State, was accepted to Harvard Medical School. And in the summers, he was coaching, and he took, he deferred it so he could run the Ironman. And I was like, what's an Ironman? And, you know, like, well, you know, you swim 2.2 miles, or whatever it is, and then 100 mile bike ride, and then a marathon. And I was just like, this guy

• 51:35Speaker 06

  is going to do that? Like, what? And he immediately, he was just cool, he was just cool, man. He was just a cool, wonderful human being. Like, he just has this calmness about him. And so he was the first guy that I was like, I want to be like him. Whatever he's doing, I want to, I want to be like him. And so I started taking swimming a little bit more seriously. And he taught me how to swim. And since I took to swimming, and I was getting pretty good, my dad signed me up for another local swim team in the winters. I'd also play, he signed me up for soccer. I said, hey, I want to play baseball. My grandfather

• 52:18Speaker 06

  and my, my mother's father was a baseball player. My dad didn't like that side of the family. And he was like, you're not playing baseball. You can play soccer. So he dropped me off at soccer practice. And I started getting good at soccer.

• 52:33Speaker 06

  And then he said, "You're gonna go wrestling practice." Wrestling, okay. Pennsylvania, everybody wrestles in Pennsylvania. Signed me up for this little club team called Gerard Barbarians. And we practiced in the, uh, um, in the, like, boiler room at the middle school. And that was the real deal, man. I remember going to my first practice there and it was hardcore calisthenics, hardcore, you know, we started out with a hundred pushups, a hundred situps, chest spins, uh, jumping jacks. Then we go and we'd run for thirty minutes and then round robin, work on moves. And, I mean, it wasn't, it was gritty. Um, I started wrestling, I started getting good at wrestling.

• 53:19Speaker 06

  And every time, you know, and then winter time, the one thing my dad liked to do was ski. And so we'd go to this little resort called Peak and Peak. Not a big resort, two hundred and fifty vertical feet. And my dad loved skiing, so I was like, I wonder if I, if I get good at skiing, like, maybe he'll like me, um, or want me around. So I started trying to get really good at skiing. Some of my friends raced, I said, "Hey, can I ski race?" My dad was like, "Nah, it's a lot of money." I got a lot of pan me down stuff. And, um, the first year I raced, I placed in the state. Wow. And then second, I placed both years. And, um, I was getting up towards around eighth grade.

• 54:01Speaker 06

  Skiing was like the first thing that I, I felt this confidence. I would go up there and I was like, "I belong here." Like, like, "This is my place." And I was, I loved freestyle skiing, but back then, there was no freestyle skiing. Peak didn't have it. I didn't really like the racing, I was always good at it. But there was freestyle skiing. I wanted to freestyle. So I was spinning helicopters and I was about thirteen years old. One day I'm in a lift line and this guy looks at me and he's like, "Hey, man, I saw you rip on the bumps." About five years older than me, named Paul. He's come ski with me. I was like, "Okay." And this guy is five years older than me. Turns out, he was an amazing motocross rider.

• 54:44Speaker 06

  He ran with this other guy who was Trevor Vines. Trevor was on the first So Be Can freestyle rider. If you remember the first So Be Can, it was, he was Trevor from wherever. Trevor and Paul and, and his crew of buddies, Sean and Sean. And they were five years older than me. And because I was a good skier, they just kind of, Paul took me everywhere. And he'd say, "You got snowmobiles? You can come ride with us." He would drive out and pick me up. I mean, he's no reason to know each other. He just genuinely cared about me. And he meant the world to me. He was just, he became another big brother. And so it was like Dave in the summers and then I had Paul. And got into skateboarding.

• 55:28Speaker 06

  I got just any sport that I could get my, any sport that I could do. And skateboarding, since I was out in the middle of nowhere, we had a cement driveway. And started building ramps and getting good at skateboarding. This was like Tony Hawk. This is, you know, early 90s.

• 55:45Speaker 06

  And I just, I got into everything that was skating. It was alternative.

• 55:51Speaker 06

  Started running with a guy named Bobby Jensen. And Bobby was this amazing swimmer. I mean, like, he could have been an Olympian. An amazing skateboarder and his whole family, JR and Gretchen. And they were just these awesome athletes. And they were, and we were a small community, so everybody kind of knew each other. And, you know, I would bounce around to the different families. And people kind of knew my background, so they'd, you know, and sleep on a couch. They'd feed me here or there. The, a lot of the families in the area, they just called themselves the herd. And they were this, you know, the mom, the Mrs. Zell and Mrs. Ferrier and, and Mrs. Thomas and Mrs. Stevens.

• 56:36Speaker 06

  They all knew my background and I didn't know what they knew. But they made sure I was fed and they made sure I was, you know, loved and taken care of. And so I, you know, as I, as I got towards high school.

• 56:49Shawn Ryan?

  Let's backtrack.

• 56:50Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 56:52Shawn Ryan?

  When did the question start for you about who your mom was? I mean, she died at 10 months old.

• 56:59Speaker 06

  Immediately.

• 56:59Shawn Ryan?

  When you were 10 months old.

• 57:00Speaker 06

  My first memories, when my dad, when it was just my dad and I,

• 57:08Speaker 06

  at the house, I would ask her, ask him about her. What was she like? Who was she? Like, tell me about her. And he always, like, shied away from the question. It was such a painful thing for him.

• 57:24Speaker 06

  It's just, he... So I would ask anybody I could find. People would come up to me, "Oh, I knew your mother." Like, "What was she like? Tell me about her." "Oh, my God, she was, you know, so charismatic and beautiful and she was such a great musician." And they'd tell me some random story about her, you know, showing up at a party and grabbing a guitar and singing. And I was like, "Oh, my God." My dad was just... He was a very reserved... He was really nice to other people. It was interesting. He was very nice to other people, but he wasn't really nice to me. And I just kind of felt like, anytime I could get away, I would get on my bike and leave.

• 58:09Speaker 06

  Ride to swim practice, go hang with my friends there. Take my skateboard and a backpack.

• 58:14Speaker 06

  Somebody, you know, somebody'd be building a new ramp somewhere and we'd go skate. I just kind of got, tried to get away from them. And in the winter, skiing was my way to get away. And it was this constant theme when I was younger of just to get away. And he, he started dating another woman and she moved in. And her son, John, great guy,

• 58:41Speaker 06

  he was like a punk, hardcore punk. He was into alternative music. And I remember, he didn't really live with us ever, but he kept stuff at our house. And he had this box of tapes. And I never knew what the bands were. They were just like mixtapes back in the day. Remember, we used to have to make a mixtape? You'd just go through all these mixtapes and I'd put them in my stereo. And, you know, I'm listening to like Black Flag and all these, you know, Sex Pistols and all these punk bands. And I'm just like, listening to the, that's where I first heard The Cult. And I, I started to foster this love for music. It just came, like, I was, I'd go to where I was drawn.

• 59:17Speaker 06

  And music really became this like sanctuary for me. And a couple of my other friends got into, I'll never forget it. We were going on a swim team trip and we were sitting on a bus. And my buddy's like, you gotta hear this. And I put on little, remember those little puffy headphones? I put on little puffy headphones and I heard Black Dog for the first time. Led Zeppelin. And I was like, what was that? Who, what, what is this magical sauce you just, you just poured into my ears? And it was like, oh my God. And Andy and Craig were, they, they were musicians. Andy was a drummer, Craig's, Craig's plays everything. I was like, this is amazing.

• 1:00:02Speaker 06

  And so I was like, what are you listening to? And, and so it was like this time where music started to, you know, we didn't have Spotify. You know, like you, if you had to save up money to go buy a, um, you know, a tape. You'd go to the mall and you'd like go through the tapes and you'd be like, oh, I'm gonna get this tape. And you, you listen to everything, right? Like you listened to both sides and, and over and over and over again, you read the inside cover. Like what was going on and like, so music became this like haven, sports and music. How do I like disappear from this world that I don't really feel like I belong in? Or I don't feel like I'm wanted in. And yeah, I talk about music a lot because it really was this like safe haven for me.

• 1:00:49Speaker 06

  What about Beach? Did you ever hear from her again? Yeah. She, she moved to Texas and um, she started dating a guy and she was gonna get married. And I was supposed to fly down to be in the wedding, to be there. And before the flight, my dad said, um, flights, the trip's canceled. And I was like, what do you mean the trip's canceled? And he said, um, sat me down and he wasn't really like nice about it. He goes, look, the guy she's marrying doesn't want you there. He doesn't want any part of her past. Um, he wants a fresh start with her.

• 1:01:34Speaker 06

  And you know, the.

• 1:01:44Speaker 06

  This part of me that woke up that day was like the protector. And I was like, okay, I want her to be happy. Like, I remember looking at my dad, like, you were, you treated her like shit. You were not nice. You were mean to her. And she was a young girl. She was like 21. And she stepped in between me and you, and she made sure that I, there was no gap when my mom went away. And I wanted her to be so. I wanted her to be happy. And I, I respected that. I never, I never pursued her after that.

• 1:02:23Speaker 06

  And driving down here, I

• 1:02:30Speaker 06

  talking to God in the car. And I said, should I talk about Beech? And I looked down at my thing, and it's 333 miles to Nashville. I'm like, okay. A few more miles go by, and I pass an exit. It's Beech Road, B-E-E-C-H. I'm like, she's, this needs, this needs to be said. I was, I was debating on whether bringing up this part of my life. But

• 1:03:07Speaker 06

  I know she's been brokenhearted over this, all these years. You know, she had her 68th birthday two days ago. And her brother still keeps me kind of informed, and I let her be.

• 1:03:20Speaker 06

  It's always been heartbreaking knowing that she was walking the earth and she didn't want or couldn't. I don't know if she wanted to.

• 1:03:32Speaker 06

  But I, I want her to know that. I forgive her.

• 1:03:39Speaker 06

  I know, I know there's something, I feel it. And I forgive her. She did everything she could and I wanted her, I hope she had a great life. I do. I hope she's happy.

• 1:03:55Speaker 06

  You know, and I wouldn't be here telling you this story had that not happened.

• 1:04:02Speaker 06

  It set me on a course

• 1:04:07Speaker 06

  that I'll never be able to

• 1:04:10Speaker 06

  in a weird way, thank her for.

• 1:04:16Speaker 06

  That I forgive her.

• 1:04:25Speaker 06

  In that day, you know, it's interesting, I go back to that day and that was a day that

• 1:04:31Speaker 06

  when I felt like nobody was coming for me.

• 1:04:35Speaker 06

  She, I lost my mom too. She died in my head. Like, oh, she's gone. Like, this is what it's, I was supposed to feel this. You know what I mean? Like, it ripped me apart. Like, she had left, but that leaving like opened up the wound of knowing that like my real mom was gone. And my dad didn't want me. And it was just like a

• 1:05:01Speaker 06

  and I don't I don't think he didn't want me because he was like mean. I think he didn't. He felt like he couldn't do anything for me. Like, he was so, he felt so bad about himself. That

• 1:05:18Speaker 06

  he felt so bad about himself that he felt like he couldn't bring anything to the table. And he turned to me and he was really hard on me about everything, every sport. You're not good enough. You're not fast enough. You gotta be better. Why'd you get second place? Second place, the first loser.

• 1:05:38Speaker 06

  You had to be first.

• 1:05:40Speaker 06

  And I became an iacle and

• 1:05:46Speaker 06

  and then the winters I would hide up in the peak. My buddies would pick me up, we'd go skiing and I could, I could be free on the slopes.

• 1:05:55Shawn Ryan?

  Is your dad still alive?

• 1:05:57Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:05:58Shawn Ryan?

  Did you see that just happen?

• 1:06:01Shawn Ryan?

  The lights just shut off.

• 1:06:03Speaker 06

  I know.

• 1:06:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:06:11Speaker 06

  He passed away, my freshman year at the Naval Academy.

• 1:06:17Shawn Ryan?

  Let me ask you this. Ben, you said you were talking to your mom in the woods.

• 1:06:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Shawn Ryan?

  Do you still do that?

• 1:06:28Speaker 06

  No, I don't.

• 1:06:31Shawn Ryan?

  Why?

• 1:06:34Speaker 06

  Because I've realized that that voice in my head was God.

• 1:06:42Speaker 06

  She's with him, and that's what that has been. That's what brought me peace.

• 1:06:49Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think she's ever spoken to you since she's passed?

• 1:06:54Speaker 06

  I think she's had a hand in protecting me at every turn.

• 1:06:59Speaker 06

  No doubt in my mind. You go back and you think like,

• 1:07:05Speaker 06

  you know,

• 1:07:07Speaker 06

  after I got hurt and you realize like you have 30,000 neurons in your heart. You've got 30,000 neurons plus in your gut. And you have this access of, you know, your brain's telling you one thing. Your heart's telling you one thing. Your gut's telling you one thing. And I was always really attuned to that. I think, and as an empath, and I was always good at reading people and situations and finding my way.

• 1:07:35Speaker 06

  But because of that voice, I always trusted in that access, I guess. And there was definitely times where I'd be like, yeah, we're not going down that road in Baghdad. We're going to keep going straight. And then, you know, I do

• 1:07:54Speaker 06

  find out like the next day and M1 got IED'd on a culvert

• 1:08:00Speaker 06

  on the road that we didn't go down. You know, and I just thought to myself like, I'm just going to keep, I'm going to keep in touch with that, with that access. And all my big decisions in life,

• 1:08:13Speaker 06

  I always knew what the right thing was. I didn't always do it, but I always knew what the right thing was. And I think that voice and for years, I've always thought she was watching over me.

• 1:08:28Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think your dad has ever spoken to you since he's passed?

• 1:08:34Speaker 06

  I don't know if that was him. I just turned the lights out.

• 1:08:38Shawn Ryan?

  I think it was.

• 1:08:40Speaker 06

  I think it was too.

• 1:08:43Shawn Ryan?

  How does that feel?

• 1:08:47Speaker 06

  You know,

• 1:08:49Speaker 06

  he, he was a,

• 1:08:53Speaker 06

  it's funny, when I got to, when I got to high school, uh, spring sports, I played soccer in the fall, played, I swam in the winter. And we skied and then spring came along in high school and there was track. I'm like, I walk on the track team. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'm a freshman. I see this pole vault thing and I'm like, I'll try that. I start pole vaulting and uh, I sucked at it. I mean, like, it was embarrassing. It was like, the coach, Coach Keck at the time, he's like, oh my God, you gotta, you gotta, just go jump in the sand pit like, you're just, this is, this is, you're embarrassing yourself. And my dad, my dad would come to my sporting events, just sit in the corner, never say anything.

• 1:09:38Speaker 06

  And he came to a track meet and after my first track meet, he goes, we got in the car, he goes, you need to quit. This is embarrassing.

• 1:09:47Speaker 06

  I was like, and I remember thinking to myself, I looked at him and I was just like, fuck you. I'm like, I'm not quitting, man. I want to figure this out. And I go back to, I go back to practice the next day and Keck would be like, oh my God, you're back? And I think my freshman year, I jumped like, I'm not kidding, I jumped seven feet, eight feet, you know, and I wasn't fast, I wasn't, I wasn't a good sprinter at the time. I went through this growth spurt. I was like this, I couldn't really run. You know, when you're a kid, I grew like 10 inches. I went from being like five foot to five 10 in 12 months. And when you grow like that, you just become gangly and slow and uncoordinated. And my dad's like, what is, you are, I was horrible soccer that year. I was horrible swimming that year.

• 1:10:29Speaker 06

  I was horrible at uh, track. My dad was just like, and your grades suck? Like you, I don't even know what to do with you. Like, and he was just like, you, you gotta figure something out. And

• 1:10:42Speaker 06

  The next year, I started, I got a little bit, my legs underneath me in soccer, got a little bit together in swimming, and then track season starts. My dad goes, "You're not doing it. You're not doing it. I can't, I'm not, I'm not gonna support this. Like, you've just gotta stop. You're embarrassing." So I went, I jumped, I jumped, I jumped. And then my dad wouldn't come to any meets. And then we had another jumper. My name was Ty Baird. Ty was just this amazing athlete. Everything Ty touched, he was just like unbelievable, unbelievable soccer player, leading scorer, unbelievable basketball player, and he's pole vault and jumping like 13 feet. And he was just a natural athlete, light on his feet. And here's me like, just stumbling all over the place. Ty, it turns out, he

• 1:11:25Speaker 06

  had a degenerative back problem, and he was having all these back pains, and the middle of pole vault season, they said, "Hey, you have to have your spine fused, and you can't jump anymore." And I showed up to practice, and it was cold and rainy, and Ty was sitting there, and I walk in, and my coach goes, "Okay, so I have you." He goes, "I want you to measure eight laps, plant the pole, I'll make sure you hit the pad." And I was like, "What? It's a 14-foot pole." And I'd been jumping in a sandbox, like, I mean, this is straight out of like Karate Kid shit. Like, you know, wax on, wax off. I'm jumping in the sandpit wall. I'm like, "Is this gonna work?" Like, and then now I'm holding at the end of a 14-foot pole, and he wants me to run as fast I can, plant this thing,

• 1:12:10Speaker 06

  and he's gonna make sure I hit the mat. And I remember standing back there, and I'm just like, "All right, you know what? I just had this moment where I'm like, 'I can do this.'" I don't know why I thought that. I run down, plant the pole, and it happened. And it didn't just happen in a, like, in a lightweight, like, everything just fell into place. And that day, I jumped 13 feet. I'd never even gotten off the ground before that. And I go to jump a 13 feet. And I went into, the next day in school, I had one of the other track coaches, and that happened at like 6 o'clock at night. So I go to, the next day, and one of our soccer coaches, also one of my teachers, and the track coach.

• 1:12:55Speaker 06

  I'm like, "Hey, Mr. Double, I jumped like 13 feet last night." And he's like, "No, you didn't. Like, I just watched you last week. Like, you can't even, you couldn't even get onto the mat." I'm like, "No, I did it." And went back to practice the next day and I remember that the pole vault record at the time was 14 feet and I was like, I can do this. Like I can do this. My dad, I said, Dad, I'm really good at pole vault. He's like, you gotta quit. I'm not, I'm not supporting this. So I became an eye. Well, that year I jumped, I jumped at the county meet and the district meet and I jumped 12.6. Didn't jump as high as I wanted to, but you get

• 1:13:36Speaker 06

  to 12.6 in Pennsylvania, you're kind of, people start to notice, mostly because your track season's so short. You know, anywhere else in the country, you can, you can jump all year long, but you have two months or three months to run track. And so that, that summer, I started working with my coach and my dad was mad that I was working with my coach all the time. And that winter I stopped, there was another, my coach was like, hey, I think you can actually do this. He called the other coach from Joe Sanford from McDowell and he says, uh, can Pete jump with you guys and indoors in the winter? And Joe was like, yeah. And Joe, another Christian, just absolutely the best human being I've ever met in my

• 1:14:19Speaker 06

  life. And I don't say that lightly. Like Joe Sanford, he, I, he just is, everybody in Pennsylvania knows Coach Sanford. He was a football coach at McDowell. He was a, he played at Edinburgh as well. And, but he's like ball of positive energy and he would run his pole vault. He'd be just turning out state champions and, and record holders. I, I show up as, as a Fairview kid and Joe just, and so I got Joe and Keck. And when my dad's just like, you suck at this and he's not coming to any meets. Jump all winter. And actually this summer I went to Slippery Rock Pole Vault Camp and uh, spring comes around, my first meet my junior year and I jumped 14 feet, 14.3 and I break the, the

• 1:15:02Speaker 06

  record, the school record that had been there since 1976, a year before I was born. And

• 1:15:10Speaker 06

  I was like, this is, I'm doing this. And that year I ended up, I won almost, I won every, every meet I entered. I went to states, I tied for first and lost on misses, jumped 14 feet that year.

• 1:15:25Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 1:15:26Speaker 06

  And senior year comes along, I'm, I'm, I'm blowing this thing out of the water. Like, I'm gonna take this as far as I can go. And jumped all winter long. Senior year, same thing. Broke every record at every meet I jumped in. I jumped 15, one. One districts, one states. And my dad came to that, the state meet, the only time he came to see me jump. And he shows up at the state meet. Weather sucks. Actually jumped the lowest I've ever jumped in. That year I jumped at the state meet, and I think partly because my dad was there. And I jumped 14 feet. And I tied for first, but I won on misses that year.

• 1:16:10Speaker 06

  Even though I had jumped 15, one, the, the week before I jumped 15, one. Anyways, it, that, it was like this, I don't know, pole vaulting became my way of rebelling. Like, I can, I can do this. In the summers, my dad's, you gotta work. And there was, there's Presque Isle State Park, which is, it's a beach. It's actually the most visited state park in Pennsylvania and in the country. And it's, it's like six miles of beaches in Erie. And they have a lifeguard that go out every day and, and guard the beaches in the summers. And that was where like all the elite swimmers in Erie would go work. And you had morning workouts.

• 1:16:54Speaker 06

  So it's kind of like the team should show up and you'd have a morning, you know, run, swim, run. You get your beach assignments and you head out to your beach and you were there until eight o'clock at night. And, you know, rinse and, rinse and repeat the next day. And my dad's like, you're gonna go work at the beach. So all the swimmers work. I know you like this track thing, but you're, you're a swimmer. And I was. I, my junior year, I think I went to states in four events. Couple of relays, a couple of individual events.

• 1:17:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 06

  And my senior year, I did the same thing. My coach, unbeknownst to Mr. Jensen, I didn't go to any practices. Then I showed up for districts and go to states and a bunch of events. He's like, you set a horrible example. I was like, I'm pole vaulting. But in the summers, I was working at Presque Isle. And that first summer.

• 1:17:40Speaker 06

  Before I broke the record was my rookie year as a lifeguard and all these guys are like all swimmers that I looked up to in the town from all different schools. And it was a real, it was the first time I felt responsibility. Like you're, you're looking at a beach and you know, Bob North and John Dolestran are still the managers out there and they take it very seriously, you know? When I had started working there, we had never had a drowning on, on any of our beaches. And it was a, you know, there have been accidents since then and everybody did their job, but it, you know, but at that moment, it was like, hey, we got a reputation uphold here. And, you know, you're joining this, you're joining this elite group and I, I like that.

• 1:18:22Speaker 06

  I'm like, I like, I like feeling like I was being part of something that other people couldn't do.

• 1:18:28Speaker 06

  And so my, my rookie year, I discovered Presque Isle days. They pulled me off the beach I'm normally on and they said, we're seeing a beach eight. Uh, we're expecting like 5,000 people on the beach and the water is just like jam packed with people. And I get out there and I'm like, oh my God. And of course, being the new guy, just like the teams, they're like, like there's, you know, the big nice lifeguard charter and they're like, yeah, you see the, uh, see, see the last one on the end over there? That's like, this is like rickety and barely holding up. You go to that one. And so I wandered down there and I'm watching this and I'm just like kind of overwhelmed with the amount of people that are in and out of the water.

• 1:19:13Speaker 06

  And you'd see people in the unguarded area and you'd whistle them out. And I watched this guy run down the beach and stand up and I put my whistle in my mouth like, I'm going to whistle him when he jumps in the unguarded area. Got to keep the people out of the unguarded area. Guy runs down the beach, he dives in and I see him all of a sudden float up and he's face down and I see him start to shake a little bit. And I'm like, I knew right away, I'm like, he broke his neck.

• 1:19:43Speaker 06

  So I turned my whistle to the head lifeguard and I jumped off my chair, grabbed my rescue tube, head straight down the beach and everything just got like slow. I got to the guy and put him in a head chin splint and I flipped him over. Started taking his pulse with my other fingers as the other guards got there. I had a rescue breathing mask on the end of my tube and um, I'm like, hey, get the tube out. He's not breathing, doesn't have a pulse. And when I said that, his family had come down the beach to see what was going on. And then this crowd started to form, like a huge crowd. And I said, he's not breathing, doesn't have a pulse, as the head lifeguard showed up with his radio.

• 1:20:25Speaker 06

  And then the crowd starts yelling, like, get him out of the water, get him out of the water. Then they start getting really mad, like, guy comes in, he's like, I'm a doctor. He grabs him by the foot and I was like, release his foot. And I was holding him in a head chin splint because I knew, like, hey, listen, if I move this guy right now, he's gonna be, like, he's gonna die, basically. I was afraid that it was a full, you know, sever the spinal cord and it, we gave him two breaths and he started breathing, but like seven times a minute. So I'm like, there's a spinal cord injury. We gotta keep him in the head chin splint, chin splint. And then for about five minutes, it was this onslaught of people screaming, like, get him out of the water, you stupid fucking lifeguard, what are you, you're gonna kill him.

• 1:21:10Speaker 06

  Everybody had been drinking, but I just, I remember just being like, no, I know what we need to do here.

• 1:21:18Speaker 06

  And then I remember hearing the sirens as I'm laying in the water, holding this guy. And I was getting really tired, like, dealing with the waves.

• 1:21:26Speaker 06

  And the sirens and the jet skis and everybody shows up and um,

• 1:21:32Speaker 06

  we put him in a board and we sent him away. My boss, John Dolestra, walks up to me and goes, alright, get back up on the chair. And I'm like, what? What do you mean, get back up on the chair, dude? And he's like, get back up on the chair. And they start questioning people as to what happened. And in my mind, you're just running through your mind, you're like, do everything right, you know, like, and the woman, his wife, about three hours later, shows up at the foot of my chair. And she says, I'm sorry. And I was like, what, who are you? She goes, you saved my husband's life. And I said,

• 1:22:07Speaker 06

  And then I remembered her yelling at me. And she said, when we took him to the ER, the ER doctor said that he has a spinal compression. And had you moved him, there was fragments all around his spinal cord. Had you moved him, he would have cut his spinal cord and he would have either died or been permanently paralyzed. And I'm sorry. And I remember just being like, I just had this moment where I'm like, I found something I'm good at. When everything goes to shit, like, I'm good. That was a fork in the road for me. I came home that night and it was on the evening news. And I remember walking in. I didn't say anything to my dad. And my dad's like, you want to tell me something? I'm like, what?

• 1:22:51Speaker 06

  You don't... What? You don't care about me? He's like, what happened at the beach? And I was like, I don't know, made a save. And the next day in the paper, it said, the title of the article just said, "Rookie lifeguard makes save." And the first line, it says, "He was calm, he never yelled, he saved his life." And it was a quote from the man's wife. And I... It was a... That was leading into my senior year of jumping. And I just, all of a sudden, had this... Like, when I was there, I just had this moment of calm and just patience, where I'm like, this is exactly where I'm supposed to be. I know exactly what I'm doing.

• 1:23:34Speaker 06

  And I am meant to be here. I don't know how I knew that. It was like that feeling that someone was watching over me. And that led me into my senior year of jumping. And that confidence kind of, all of a sudden, bled through. Around that time, was when I first heard about the SEAL teams. And I'm like, I'm gonna be a Navy SEAL.

• 1:23:58Shawn Ryan?

  What did that... Before we get into that, I mean, what did it feel like? I mean, did your dad ever give you positive affirmation for that?

• 1:24:07Speaker 06

  Never to my face. I mean...

• 1:24:13Speaker 06

  He was constantly saying, hey, listen, you need to be ready to do this on your own because I'm gonna, I'm gonna die at any minute. And you're not good enough. You're not strong enough. You're not fast enough. Your grades suck. You got lucky. You know, my, my, when I tied, when I tied for first my junior year, I was still, that was right before the summer of working at the press guy, my rookie season there. Came home and I was like, hey, I got, there's my silver medal, state silver medal. And my dad goes, congratulations. You're the first loser. You should have been working. And I was like, okay.

• 1:24:54Speaker 06

  Put it in the drawer and I went, you know, and had my summer and that, that happened during that summer. And that was like, kind of a, that was the, I don't need you, man. Did you ever get a positive affirmation from him? No. All the way up until he died? Yeah, man. When I graduated from BUDS, he came out to the graduation ceremony. And it was over. I got my, you know, BUDS graduation certificate. And my dad takes it, folds it in half and puts it under his arm. He goes, why weren't you the honor man? And I was like, I just kind of looked at him like, whatever, man. And when I went to the Naval Academy,

• 1:25:37Speaker 06

  I said, Dad, I got into the Naval Academy. He's like, why would you go there? What do you mean, why would I go there? He's like, why don't you get out and, you know, finish your time in the SEALs and, and get out, go to Northwestern, you know, do, do something else. Why do, you don't need that chicken shit. He called it chicken shit. You know, experience. And not one time until.

• 1:26:06Speaker 06

  The day he died, I was, I just left class and I got an A on a calculus test. And my dad told me a story that the only class he dropped in college was calculus. You got an A on a calculus? I know, right?

• 1:26:25Speaker 06

  So I run into fifth wing and um, there's a payphone. And I had a, I had a, I mean, this is way before cellphones and all that stuff like. I had, there's a payphone and I had an AT&T calling card and I was like, I'm gonna tell him I got a fucking A on a calculus test. And I call him up and he happened to answer. I was gonna leave a message on the machine and he said, what's up? And I was like, Dad, I got an A on a calculus test. And he starts laughing and uh, and he goes, and he just had like a very calm way about him. And I said, I gotta, I just wanted to tell you that. I gotta go. I gotta go to track practice. And uh, he goes, I love you. And I said,

• 1:27:11Speaker 06

  I love you too. He never said that to me.

• 1:27:15Speaker 06

  And I hung up the phone.

• 1:27:18Speaker 06

  What I didn't know was he laid down on the couch and he died probably 15 minutes after that.

• 1:27:26Speaker 06

  That's the only thing he ever said to me that was

• 1:27:29Speaker 06

  like

• 1:27:31Speaker 06

  positive.

• 1:27:33Speaker 06

  The last time I physically saw him was at the Naval Academy. Came down for a visit. His heart was giving out. I wanted to show him around like this isn't chicken shit. This is, this is a pretty amazing place. And we sat on Stribbling Walk and he said to me, I think you'll be alright.

• 1:27:52Speaker 06

  And I just kinda looked at him and I'm like,

• 1:27:55Speaker 06

  okay. You know, and it was,

• 1:28:01Speaker 06

  I don't have any.

• 1:28:07Speaker 06

  I just remember thinking like, when I'm a dad, I'm not gonna be like him.

• 1:28:14Speaker 06

  That was in my head. When I'm a dad, I'm not gonna be like him.

• 1:28:22Shawn Ryan?

  What would you say to your dad now if he was there?

• 1:28:29Speaker 06

  I forgive you.

• 1:28:34Speaker 06

  A lot of lessons to learn in his time in this human experience. We learned them all.

• 1:28:45Speaker 06

  Think I ended up alright?

• 1:28:49Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think he was so reluctant to give you any credibility or affirmations?

• 1:28:57Speaker 06

  I think he thought I was gonna quit pushing.

• 1:29:00Shawn Ryan?

  You think he was trying to prepare you?

• 1:29:02Speaker 06

  I think he was.

• 1:29:05Speaker 06

  I think he was.

• 1:29:10Speaker 06

  You know, when he died, I came back to the academy and it was like it never happened. And thank God I had Jeremy and Brett and Johnny.

• 1:29:21Speaker 06

  But it was like, I remember feeling like alone in the world.

• 1:29:28Speaker 06

  It was a really kind of an empty moment.

• 1:29:32Speaker 06

  And to the credit of one of my friend's families, Bob Faire, he met me for breakfast the day I got home from the academy and my dad was dead and he goes, you're gonna join my family?

• 1:29:44Speaker 06

  I said, what do you mean? He goes, you're part of the family. You're one of my sons now. And Bob stepped up. And I just

• 1:29:56Speaker 06

  I just put it behind me and I moved on.

• 1:30:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was pretty heavy. I was a lot as a kid and.

• 1:30:09Speaker 06

  But I do, I really do forgive him. I think he was doing the best with what he had. I think he was depressed. I think he was dejected. I think he, you know, he.

• 1:30:20Speaker 06

  He.

• 1:30:23Speaker 06

  I don't know if he ever found his faith.

• 1:30:27Speaker 06

  And that, you know, I pray that.

• 1:30:32Speaker 06

  I pray that he did. I don't know.

• 1:30:37Speaker 06

  It wasn't a bad, you know, I guess the way I tell it is he's, you know, it sounds like he was this horrible person. He wasn't horrible. He was just over there. He was, and he was always pushing and I, when you're a kid, you, you, you want somebody with you. You know, you.

• 1:30:58Speaker 06

  Maybe I could have, maybe I would have been a better athlete if he'd have been more supportive. You know, maybe I would, maybe I would have been a better student. Maybe I would have been better. I don't know, but I was like, I don't understand how you do that. As a dad. I just don't.

• 1:31:17Speaker 06

  And I. You know, when I, when I got in the Navy.

• 1:31:24Speaker 06

  I remember that he dropped, well.

• 1:31:28Speaker 06

  I told him, I'm, I'm joining the SEAL teams, going in the Navy. I don't care about SATs. I don't care about all that stuff. I'm not going to college. I had scholarship offers to Penn State, UMass for track and field. I'm gonna go be a SEAL.

• 1:31:41Speaker 06

  My dad's like, you'll never make it. Don't do that. And that some, the summer after I graduated, dead set, I was in the Navy and then I met a girl. And she had gone to Penn State and I was like, yeah, maybe I can go to Penn State. It was my first girlfriend and it was the first person that saw me for who I was. We liked the same music. She introduced me to Steely Dan, like, you know, like Steely Dan? Are you kidding me? She liked Nirvana and Rush, huge Rush fan. I love Rush.

• 1:32:16Speaker 06

  And so I kind of like, I hesitated and the last second, I went to Slippery Rock. They have the pole vault program. And about six weeks into it, I had never been to class and I was like, this is stupid. And she dumped me. She was like, you need to go figure it out. It's the greatest thing that ever happened to me. And I went on this round trip. I got my car. I mean, we didn't have GPSs back then. I got my car, started driving west. I didn't stop till I got to San Diego. I wanted to see the beach. I wanted to see Coronado. So I literally drove from Slippery Rock, Pennsylvania, swung through West Virginia.

• 1:32:55Speaker 06

  And where my, my wife was actually going to school and I saw her. She was just a friend of mine at the time. And then I disappeared. Nobody saw me for about three months. And I went to Coronado. I saw Bud's and I looked at the beach and I saw the training Bud's students running. Went up in the mountains. I went to Mammoth. I went skiing. Thought maybe I can, maybe I'll stop here. Maybe I can pursue this skiing thing.

• 1:33:20Speaker 06

  And then the voice was like, join the Navy. I hopped in my car and I drove all the way back. And I drove straight to Penn State. And I saw the Penn State, Michigan game. Biaka Batuka was the running back. I don't know how I remember that other than the fact that like Biaka Batuka, like, I was like, man, that'd be a rough name to grow up with. But I remember he was the running back for Michigan. And yeah, I went back to, I went back to Penn State to see a bunch of my friends. So we're going to Penn State at the time. And you're friends with, you're good friends with Rhett. You just had Rhett on here. Mm-hmm. And I was gonna tell the story first because Rhett was on there, but this is.

• 1:34:01Speaker 06

  One of the guys, a good friend I grew up with, um, he's quite literally the Van Wilder, the original Van Wilder. He spent 10 years in Penn State and in fraternity. It was there 10 years, a decade. He's go, everybody calls him Reese. He's like Oprah. Like, he's like a legend. And, uh, he was in this fraternity and I'm like, well, I'm gonna go see Reese. And Reese is one of these guys that just does weird shit. And he ends up pulling stuff off. Like, the first time I ever saw, um, Pat Monahan sing, who's a singer for Train, was in Reese's basement in Fairview. And Pat Monahan was singing for, um, uh, Rhodes Gallery. And it was a Led Zeppelin cover band. And Reese's like five years older than me. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, that was the first time I saw. We had all these little,

• 1:34:46Speaker 06

  like, parties where the, that's where you, you know, got into the music scene. Reese had, he was like a legend for parties. He just made stuff happen. So I'm like, I'll go, I'm gonna go see Reese. I go to the KDR house and, um, and there's a bunch of pledges. And I, I'm like, hey, I need to see Reese. And they're all like, I'm not taking him upstairs. Like, I'm like, come on, I need to see Reese. So finally, one dejected pledge is like, takes me up to the top floor, like knocks on the door. And Reese's in there, he's like, enter. I go open the door. It's like 10:00 in the morning. Reese's got like a, uh, he's got like a bathrobe on. He's got a visor with like flashing lights. And he's got a beer in his hand. And he goes, uh, and the pledge's like, this, or the pledge is like, hey, this

• 1:35:30Speaker 06

  is Pete Scobos here to see you. And he's like, oh, Pete, come on in. And just as the pledge is about to leave, he goes, you're not going anywhere. Just get in here. Pick a pepper. And I'm like, I'm like, what is it? He's like, he's like, see these peppers? I've been drying them out for like six months. He's like, they're like hottest peppers in the world. And this kid is just, he doesn't want to eat the pepper. So he grabs a pepper and he's like, he's like, eat it. The pledge eats it. And he goes, all right. So what's going on? And I'm like, looking at this kid who's just starting to like, dude, he's like, he's got snot coming out of every angle of his body. And I'm like, doesn't he need some water? And he's like, no, no, no, he needs milk. But he's not getting it for another two minutes. He's gotta go for two minutes. And I'm looking at Reese and I'm like, dude, I'm gonna, I'm gonna join the Navy. I'm gonna be a SEAL. He goes, ah.

• 1:36:16Speaker 06

  We got a guy out there. His name's Elvis. When you get out there, look for him. And I'm like, "What?" He goes, "You staying tonight?" And I'm like, "No." He goes, "Well, anyways, anyways, "Good luck." And I'm like, "Are you sure he's gonna be there?" He's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, "Yeah. He's been there a while." But yeah, when you get out there, look for Elvis. And I'm like, "What the fuck was that?" "I'm like, "We have to return it."

• 1:36:41Speaker 06

  I get to Bud's and check in 208. You know, Matt's like, chaos everywhere. Everybody's running around and I'm just kind of overwhelmed. Like, holy shit. And there's this one rollback who the instruct, he like talked to the instructors like, and they'd be like, "Hey, come here." And there's Rutherford on his shirt. And they like, kind of respected him. And he was in rollback land. And I'm like, and I realized like, he had been beaten to a pulp. Like, and they were just like, "We can't beat the guy any harder. He won't quit." So they stopped. They were just like respectful of Rutherford. Anyways, you know, we're going through getting your gear and he ended up getting me a pair of

• 1:37:22Speaker 06

  UDTs. And he's like, "Now, give him a new pair." And I was, and I'm like, "Why, why do we get a new pair?" He goes, "And all the other ones had the names through the back. You know, you stenciled your name on it. And there was like a name cross out. And another guy underneath cross out was all the quitters." She's like, "That's bad luck." He's like, "Come on, a fresh pair of UDTs." So the first weekend meeting, I look over and there's, there's Rutherford, and he's wearing a floral shirt, and he's got Roy Orbison sunglasses on. And I'm like, "That much has changed." And I look at him, I'm like, and in my mind, I'm like, "I think that's Elvis." So I walk up to him and I'm like, "Hey, man, uh, are you Elvis?"

• 1:37:58Speaker 06

  He like rips his sunglasses off. He looks at me, goes, "No one's called me that in a long time."

• 1:38:05Speaker 06

  I was like, "Uh, Reese from Penn State said to come find you." And he's like, "Reese? How's he doing?"

• 1:38:15Speaker 06

  I'm just thinking this like how this the world just happened and so when Reese or would you know I became good friends with Rutherford and Bud's because of my friend Reese who ended up being the manager of my band never Are you serious? Yeah, so Reese ended up being the manager of my band. He does everything. He's got a bar in Aspen. He's just one of these guys that does it, but he's he's a legend. He actually graduated in 10 years from Penn State. I think he got like an associate's in like underwater fire prevention. So Or leisure studies or whatever it was. He's just he's a great dude. He's that's that's how I met Rutherford. Anyways, I decided to go in the Navy, obviously, and I come I

• 1:38:59Speaker 06

  drop out of Slippery Rock, go around the country and I show up at my doorstep. My dad meets me at the doorstep and he says, you're not coming in here. And I was like, you dropped out of college? He disappeared for two months? You can live somewhere, but I ain't gonna be here. And I was like, I'm joining the Navy. He goes, well, show me a piece of paper. I drive down to the recruiting station on State Street. I'm like, hey, I want to be a SEAL. And they're like, no, you want to be a nuke. Like, no, I want to be a SEAL. And they're like, yeah, you're no one, no, no, no one does that, especially from around

• 1:39:39Speaker 06

  here. No, no one does that. I take the ASVAB test and I did did pretty well and they're like trying to sign me up for nuke paper. I'm like, I just need a piece of paper. So they give me like, you know, that first piece of paper, like your intention to go to Meps or whatever it is, take it home. And I have a Meps date. It's 1995. I have a Meps date in December, first week of December. And show it to my dad. He goes, all right, you can stay here until you go to Meps. I go to Meps and go through the process and I sign up for the Diefer program. And I want to be a medic. And I want to be a medic because on the beach, when I saved that guy, I was like, I want to help people. Like, I want

• 1:40:22Speaker 06

  to go to the worst place, worst places on earth and be the guy that helps people.

• 1:40:29Speaker 06

  And so the Diapher program, you went to BUDS and then you went to boot camp, then you went to BUDS. And then after that, you went to 18 Delta and got your medic certification. I was like, that's perfect. That's what I'm gonna do. Come home, show my dad, I'm listed. When's your shipping out date? It's January 26th. He goes, all right, you stay here until then. On the day of boot camp, we drove down to Pittsburgh, stayed at John's house. The Steelers lost the Super Bowl to the Cowboys the night before. I remember that. It's like.

• 1:41:10Speaker 06

  And my dad put me in a cab, like an old beat up, you know, this nasty old smelly cab. And I was like, later. Went to boot camp. Damn, man. Never stepped foot back in that house. When I would come home, I would go stay with friends and stuff. Yeah, it was, you know, in the summers when I was younger, I would go visit my grandparents in Pittsburgh. My grandpa was this legendary guy. He was a CB in World War II, was on Saipan in Okinawa.

• 1:41:52Speaker 06

  And then he became a, worked in the steel mills, pitched semi-pro baseball. And he pitched, I think he pitched batting practice for the Orioles. He was just a larger-than-life guy. And I'd go down to visit them and my grandmother hated my father, hated him. And she was Catholic. And she was the expert of the shame and guilt, the Catholic shame. And every time I'd get down there, she would just tear into me about my father. And I was just like, hey, like, I don't like the guy either, but like, you know,

• 1:42:35Speaker 06

  he's, he's still trying, you know what I mean? In the back of my mind, I'm like, he's still, he's still giving it the college tries. I can't like, you know, I can't hammer him too hard. And she is on this thing about my dad, you know, took, there was a life insurance policy. And when your mother died, your dad, it was supposed to go to me and your father took it from me. And I was like, ah, and you know, she'd show me pieces of paper. I hired a private investigator. And I was like, as distant as my father was, he wasn't evil. You know what I mean? And it just really soured. I love my grandfather and he was this wonderful human being.

• 1:43:17Speaker 06

  And you know, they were big on like, you weren't baptized. Your father wouldn't allow you to be baptized. But we snuck you in and your mother and I baptized you in the Catholic church. And, you know, she would tell me these stories and I was like, I don't know, man. It's just, I just had a bad taste in my mouth about Catholics and Catholicism. It was my, and my grandmother kind of hanging over, over us. It wasn't, it wasn't a nice, they were great people though. I'd go down in the summers and my grandfather would take me to the Pirates games. And, um, and in those summers I would get to see, uh, my cousin Alex, who, uh,

• 1:44:00Speaker 06

  he had been born in Lesotho. Our moms were best friends and sisters.

• 1:44:06Speaker 06

  And went, were college roommates and, um, uh, he had been born in Lesotho, was being raised over there. His father was an international engineer, put in water systems.

• 1:44:17Speaker 06

  And he was a air force.

• 1:44:20Speaker 06

  Combat vet from Vietnam, was like part of the first CCT group. And I could see Alex in the summers, that was like my highlight. And he was the one, one summer we decided we wanted to be SEALs. And we're gonna do this. And grandpa, he told me about the frogmen at Saipan. And I was like, that's cool, man. Like, I want to swim ashore. I wanna, I wanna, the idea, like, being underwater and sneaky, being in places that nobody was, and doing stuff that, you know, that was cool to me. And I was good in the water. And both Alex and I, he went on to be a team guy as well.

• 1:45:02Speaker 06

  Couple of years after me. And he retired from the teams as well. Still one of my...

• 1:45:11Speaker 06

  But that, you know, that, those younger years, it was, I couldn't wait to get out of there. But it was, it was music. I was playing in bands, playing these little bands we would pick up and like, you know, Grateful Dead cover songs, or Jam to Fish, or then playing Urbana, Stone Temple Pilots, Led Zeppelin, and, you know, I was like into music, into skiing, and just anything to get away from my, my house. And then I just kinda walked in the Navy. I used to start a new life.

• 1:45:49Shawn Ryan?

  Doing alright?

• 1:45:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, man.

• 1:45:51Shawn Ryan?

  Good.

• 1:45:51Speaker 06

  That was a lot. I didn't know where I was gonna go with my... I hadn't talked about beaching. I buried that.

• 1:45:58Shawn Ryan?

  Feel good about it?

• 1:46:00Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:46:04Shawn Ryan?

  I'll bet this gets to her.

• 1:46:06Speaker 06

  What's that?

• 1:46:06Shawn Ryan?

  I'll bet this gets to her.

• 1:46:10Speaker 06

  I don't know if I want it.

• 1:46:16Speaker 06

  Forgive her. I don't know if I'm one of her.

• 1:46:20Speaker 06

  I think as a dad now, I look at it and I'm like,

• 1:46:24Speaker 06

  I get it. She was a kid. She needed to live her life and I wanted that for her. I wasn't her biological son. So there was part of me that was like, I understand that. But what I wonder if she understood is that like, my bond was with her.

• 1:46:41Speaker 06

  Like, I didn't know the difference. Yeah. And that

• 1:46:46Speaker 06

  was what set.

• 1:46:49Speaker 06

  It just changed everything.

• 1:46:53Speaker 06

  That's a lot to go through, man.

• 1:46:57Speaker 06

  A lot as a kid, man.

• 1:46:59Speaker 06

  I think of that with my kids.

• 1:47:02Speaker 06

  Like,

• 1:47:05Speaker 06

  we'll talk about it later, but like,

• 1:47:08Speaker 06

  when it was opportunity to be on set with Walker and be there for all of that. When we get into the Adam Project, dude,

• 1:47:17Speaker 06

  that comes full circle on Dad. That movie is a father-son love story. About going back in time and talking to your dad.

• 1:47:26Speaker 06

  Yeah. Wow.

• 1:47:30Speaker 06

  It, that's when you're like, okay. I think I've been a little bit hard on him in the beginning of this interview because

• 1:47:42Speaker 06

  when all of a sudden it was Walker and I alone for four months shooting this movie about fathers and sons, it was like, holy fuck. And, you know, Ryan Reynolds and Sean Levy, we all had these issues with our fathers. And, and we're all dads and they are, they have girls. Ryan finally has a son. But there were moments while we were shooting this that it was like,

• 1:48:11Speaker 06

  it just heavy. Heavy for all of us. Um.

• 1:48:19Speaker 06

  But it was because like of the like the weight you've been carrying and then like I saw my father from his side for that time when we're shooting that movie, you know what I mean? And I was like, oh, man, that must have been much harder than I thought it was. You know, I just saw him pushing me, but maybe he did feel what I feel for him. And there was a lot of forgiveness in that of his distance and behavior like he didn't and I felt that like my scars from the teams like I don't want to pour that onto him, you know, like, and I was pulled back with my kids. And

• 1:49:06Speaker 06

  I mean, that was that movie.

• 1:49:10Speaker 06

  I still, I got on a plane, guy next to me pulls up Netflix and he pulls up The Adam Project and watches it. And I'm like, watching this dude watch my kid and he's crying and I'm like crying next to him. And he's like, you ever watched this movie? This movie's amazing? And I'm like, yeah, that's my favorite movie. And I don't tell him. I can't even say another word about it. It's like the ultimate

• 1:49:47Speaker 06

  dad moment, you know?

• 1:49:50Speaker 06

  Watching somebody watch my kid, my kid changing the world in front of me. You're just like, whoa.

• 1:50:02Speaker 06

  Yeah. A lot of, you know, I talk about my childhood is tough and I'm tough on my dad. But man, if I didn't have the experiences that I've had, failures that I've had, like pulled me into, you know, the beginning of his career, um, and being home for that.

• 1:50:26Speaker 06

  That was so healing.

• 1:50:29Speaker 06

  It was like every day, so much. Every day.

• 1:50:36Speaker 06

  Sean.

• 1:50:38Speaker 06

  Oh, we'll get into that. That was Sean.

• 1:50:43Speaker 06

  Those guys, that experience. I don't care about fuck politics, fuck all that stuff, man. We were there as rock human beings making

• 1:50:55Speaker 06

  a beautiful piece of art. And I watched a kid doing exactly what he was put on earth to do.

• 1:51:07Shawn Ryan?

  Pretty amazing.

• 1:51:08Speaker 06

  Dude.

• 1:51:11Speaker 06

  You can't. I can barely watch that movie, man.

• 1:51:15Speaker 06

  Barely watch a movie.

• 1:51:18Speaker 06

  And it was funny. It was punctuated, but these moments we would have. Just heaviness and then Ryan's sense of humor. He's very much like a team guy. Like, is that our same? And you know what? He carries on around a lot of weight, too. I'm his dad. And he covers it up with humor. And you know, we you spend four months with people, you see things and feel things and talk about things. And, uh, you know, I that's everybody's going through that. Everybody's got an issue with their dad, I've found. And especially driven people. Like, what's

• 1:52:03Speaker 06

  you find, you go to these elite groups, whether it's athletes, artists, veterans, whatever. You go to these elite groups called achieving people. And a lot of it comes from pain in the past. That lights the path ahead, like, I'm not going there. I'm going somewhere great and you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna you're gonna be mad when I'm successful, or whatever it is. You know?

• 1:52:31Speaker 06

  Yes, it's dad was again, I can't be can't be mad at him.

• 1:52:39Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think you would be who you are today if he wouldn't push you like that?

• 1:52:45Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:52:47Speaker 06

  No. Not on those moments in buds and you know what I'm talking about like Monday night when you're like fuck this like back in the surf you're watching the sunset over Point Loma and you've just been through Sunday all day Monday and you're realizing you gotta go to Friday and then you're watching guys just getting up in droves walking away you're like

• 1:53:19Speaker 06

  fuck him

• 1:53:22Speaker 06

  fuck him

• 1:53:24Speaker 06

  and you just see him telling me you're not gonna make it

• 1:53:29Speaker 06

  fuck this

• 1:53:32Speaker 06

  and then the guy would quit and I'd be like see I'm tougher than him

• 1:53:40Speaker 06

  I would never

• 1:53:43Speaker 06

  he put that

• 1:53:46Speaker 06

  that's we talked about yesterday like would I would I've been a team guy I don't know

• 1:53:55Speaker 06

  you know maybe I would have been a musician from day one

• 1:54:00Speaker 06

  and I would have explored that part of my life I would have never had a longing or a hole to fill and maybe it would have made me a better dad but I wouldn't be I wouldn't have had these moments that I've had because of the shit and all the failure and all the pain that takes you right to that like

• 1:54:22Speaker 06

  why me and then a moment like your kid getting cast in that and you're just like oh

• 1:54:34Speaker 06

  you know

• 1:54:37Speaker 06

  Clay Pennegras. I was talking to you, I got ID'd, we were hanging out and Clay, you know, we were having great careers and then,

• 1:54:46Speaker 06

  and Clay, one night, we were sitting around, he goes, "You would have died for me." And I said, "Yeah, of course." "Overseas?" Like, "Yeah." He goes,

• 1:55:03Speaker 06

  "What would you do for your kid to have the opportunity that he has right now? To follow his dreams?" I was like,

• 1:55:13Speaker 06

  "I'd fucking go to hell to kill the devil with a fucking spoon for that." He goes, "So was it that bad? Would you change it?" I'm like, "No."

• 1:55:27Speaker 06

  It's like, God put me right where he needed me to open that door and help him find that, that thing.

• 1:55:42Speaker 06

  Like, "Yeah, bring it on, man."

• 1:55:45Shawn Ryan?

  Well, bud,

• 1:55:47Shawn Ryan?

  let's take a break.

• 1:55:51Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 1:56:02Speaker 03

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us out. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:56:08Speaker 04

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:56:12Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:56:15Speaker 04

  I'm not the first daddy.

• 1:56:16Speaker 02

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17.9. Without parent.

• 1:56:27Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:57:02Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company foreme of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:57:06Speaker 02

  On October 2nd.

• 1:57:07Speaker 01

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:57:12Speaker 02

  Tom Cruise is.

• 1:57:13Speaker 03

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 1:57:17Speaker 02

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:57:19Speaker 04

  What would happen if I stopped moving? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

• 1:57:23Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:57:26Speaker 04

  I'm not the first daddy.

• 1:57:28Speaker 02

  Digger, see the trailer online, only here's October 2nd, rated R, under 17, not a minute without parent.

• 1:57:37Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Pete, we're back from the break. Nice shooting, by the way.

• 1:57:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, well, that's the first time I've been on a gun in a while.

• 1:57:45Shawn Ryan?

  How long has it been?

• 1:57:47Speaker 06

  I don't think I've shot in a year. Every year I have, I have my, um, I'll take out my stuff to our, we have a little property with some steel targets I set up. And I have some paper targets and I do from the holster.

• 1:58:05Speaker 06

  And I'll shoot one full loadout. I'm like, because that's where I'm at.

• 1:58:10Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:10Speaker 06

  You know, that's how I look at it, like, and then I assess. I'm like, meh, I'm good enough.

• 1:58:17Shawn Ryan?

  Can I still get the job done?

• 1:58:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, can I still?

• 1:58:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:58:21Speaker 06

  All right, we're good.

• 1:58:22Shawn Ryan?

  Nice. Yeah, I like those lever actions now. I've been, I love all of them, but.

• 1:58:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:58:28Shawn Ryan?

  I'm really into the lever actions right now, just because we never, it's like new to me, you know what I mean?

• 1:58:34Speaker 06

  Well, again, like I grew up shooting, you know, a 22 and a shotgun and a hunting rifle every once in a while. And so when I got in the teams, the pistol, I remember the first pistol I ever shot was a P226. And, and then you'd go to Shaw's and, you know, you get talking points drilled into your head. And de-cock, thumb holster routine, like, and in that two weeks, so you're, the first trip to Shaw's, that first two weeks, you come away as a, you're like, I am a gunfighter now. You know, it's like that, it, I think everybody goes through that. You're like, okay, can I, in the back of your mind, what am I going to do when it actually happens?

• 1:59:18Speaker 06

  But then you go to Shaw's and you're like, all right, motherfucker, I got this.

• 1:59:23Speaker 06

  Like, I can, I, fuck yes, let's go. Um, you know, like, and so I, I always stuck with the, the Sig and the, I'm like, I know it and I've shot so many, we've gone so many, you know, back to show so many times that those two platforms are ingrained in my head. And then I'm like, well, if I really need it, like, if I really need it, I want the one that I know I'm going to be able to manipulate in any frame of mind.

• 1:59:49Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:50Speaker 06

  So.

• 1:59:51Shawn Ryan?

  Same here, those are my go-tos, but, you know, I like the other stuff.

• 1:59:55Speaker 06

  Oh, it's fun. I would love the, the lever action from a horse.

• 2:00:00Shawn Ryan?

  Dude.

• 2:00:00Speaker 06

  I bet that, but I mean.

• 2:00:02Shawn Ryan?

  I haven't done that yet.

• 2:00:03Speaker 06

  That's gotta be, I've seen videos of that and I'm like, you know, the Teddy Roosevelt, man, that guy's just,

• 2:00:12Speaker 06

  what a Teddy Roosevelt lever action. Like, alright, that guy was badass. He did it from a horse. I want to try it.

• 2:00:18Shawn Ryan?

  Yep. Well, let's get back to you. So we were, we skirted around a little bit, got, got your childhood, got a little bit of naval, got a little bit of BUDs, but I want to talk about, you know, so I think where we left off was you told your old man, you're going to, you're going to BUDs.

• 2:00:38Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah, I came home, I dropped out of school, um, and showed up, dad was like, no, you're not, you're not living here. Figure it out. Like, you are a official fuck up. Dropped out of college, you don't have a plan. Like, what are you gonna do? And time went done, went to the recruiter, got my first paperwork, did my tests.

• 2:01:05Shawn Ryan?

  Hit that. We hit all of that.

• 2:01:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, and then, uh, shipped off the boot camp and, you know, the, you, you, the, the first day of boot camp, you know that feeling when you get in there and you're like, I had like long hair. I'm like, cool, I like earrings. I'm like, right on. And then all of a sudden, I'm here to be in the Navy. I'm gonna be a SEAL and they're just tearing into you. This is ninety, January ninety-six. And, uh, your head shaved, you got twenty-eight vaccination shot in you. And then you're laying in that mattress, you're laying on that mattress that's covered in plastic, like alone in the dark. And you're like, what the fuck did I just do?

• 2:01:47Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 2:01:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, the boot camp goes, um, and I remember about halfway through boot camp, they're like, "Hey, we gotta take the SEAL test. Whoever's in this program, SEAL test tomorrow morning. You have to leave here at 2 a.m. They get in line for the swim." And I remember showing up, well, let me back up. Before I joined the Navy, and I was like, "I'm gonna be a SEAL," there was one guy in my hometown, two guys in my hometown. One guy was a guy named Jake Banta, who was- You know Jake? Yes. So I forgot to tell you about this. So I'm on my, I'm lifeguarding on my beach. Now, at this time, I'm a huge, like, I love Stevie Ray Vaughan. I got posters of Stevie Ray Vaughan

• 2:02:29Speaker 06

  all over my, my room. I'm huge into music. I bought a, an old Squire Strat saved up, and I was like, "I love, I love Texas blues," and like, into Stevie Ray Vaughan. I'm lifeguarding on Beach 10, and they're having a lot, they're having a free concert, and Jake's Blues is playing. And I'm listening to this guy, and I'm just like, "Holy shit, like, this dude is just tearing it up." And on my lifeguard break, I go back there, and I had heard that he was, they're like, "Oh yeah, that guy used to be a SEAL," and I'm like, "Okay." And he's playing a left-handed Strat, and it was like, I forget what year it was, I think it's like, late 60s Strat. And I look, and he's got a tiny little trident on,

• 2:03:12Speaker 06

  like, pinned to the front of the Strat, and it's 69 on it, and he is just tearing it up. And I'm like, "Whoa." So he finishes up, and I walk up to him, and I'm like, "Hey, man, are you a SEAL?" And he's like, he just kinda looks at me, he's like, "Yeah, I was, but..." And I'm like, "I'm going to Bud's," and he goes, "Huh, okay." I'm like, "All right, well, whatever." Um, so I met Jake on the beach, and where I'm working. And, um, another one of my friend's fathers was a SEAL, was in Vietnam. It was an Naval Academy graduate, and he was Dave Strong, and two tours in Vietnam. And he ended up being the SEAL, SEAL Team One. He was retired, he'd worked at a school teacher

• 2:03:56Speaker 06

  in town, and both of his kids were in my school, went to my, was, you know, my high school. We had a small high school, 130 kids per class. And so I go and called Mr. Strong. I'm like, hey, I want to join the SEAL team. So he has me over and sits me in the living room and he's just like, tell me what you want to do. And I said, you know, I want to go to BUDS. Tell me about BUDS. And he's like, listen, he's like, you know, it's three phases, all that stuff. He's like, but that doesn't matter. He goes, there's a few things that do matter.

• 2:04:25Speaker 06

  He goes, what sports did you play? And I give him my list of sports and stuff. And he's like, yeah, I know about your swimming and I know about your pole vault. And he'd kind of follow me a little bit because of his kids. And he goes, when you go to BUDS, your first day, look around and you're going to see all these guys that are just, you know, they look huge. They're strong. They're going to be, you know, all these athletes. He goes, I want you to pick all the guys that you think are going to graduate in your head. He goes, then on graduation day, because you're going to graduate, I want you to look around and make note of how many of those guys are still are still there. And he goes, none of them are going to be there. He goes, I promise you this, because it's not the guys you think are going to make it are going to make it. He goes, you have everything you need. Don't second guess yourself.

• 2:05:09Speaker 06

  And I was like, okay. And with that, I went off to BUDS. Those are my, the only two exposures I had to real SEALs were Jake and Dave. And so, you know, go through boot camp, go to BUDS. And I was in class 208 and we had this amazing officer corps in 208. Mike McGath was a, he was a Naval Academy grad and he was SWO for a few years on a PC. So he was a full lieutenant when he came, which he just had a different presence. He was really big. He was actually from Franklin, Pennsylvania, which was like 30 minutes down the road from me. And he was state champ of the 100 freestyle. He was an amazing swimmer. He had hands like coal shovels. And he was just, he was just calm. He was just a calm guy.

• 2:05:52Speaker 06

  And I kind of looking around and, you know, we've got Tom Donham and Russ Geraldi. We've got Brian O'Laban, just this stacked crew and they're all Naval Academy graduates. And then we had one guy named Adam Smith, who was just this tall, really good looking dude. And he was just calm as a cucumber. And day one, everyone starts shitting on Adam. And turns out that his dad was Admiral Smith at the time. So he was the two star.

• 2:06:19Speaker 06

  You know, you get assigned a swim buddy and Scobell and Smith aren't too far apart. So, so I end up being Adam's swim buddy. And Bud's took on a whole new adventure for me because everywhere he would go, they'd be like, "Smith, drop. Take your little buddy with you." I was like, "I got an extra." Nobody knew who I was, but I was, you know, Adam's little, you know, buddy and, you know, he'd get called, he'd get pulled in front of the, you know, the, the different phase offices. "You better not tell your daddy his shit goes around here. You think you're gonna make it?" You know, and I'm just like, "Damn dude." And Adam was, he played football, um, played football for Coronado High School. He was like the captain of the football team, went to USD. He, and he's just this, he was bigger than life.

• 2:07:01Speaker 06

  And I looked around, I looked around that class and we had some professional, I think there was a guy who was like Olympic swimmer. He quit like the first week or some other dude was an Ironman triathlete and he quit like the first week. And I looked at the guys that, I'm like, "I'm gonna listen." I picked like Mike, I picked Tom Donovan and I picked Adam. And I'm like, "Those guys are gonna make it. I'm following them." And that's what I did. I kinda just tucked in and the water stuff was, was, I loved going to the water. Anything in the water, I was very happy with. No one was yelling at us. No one was beating Adam and I. Um, like I could, you know, tie me up, throw me in the pool, like drum proofing is like, no one's yelling. Like this is great. All I gotta do is exhale.

• 2:07:45Speaker 06

  And in high school, I, I was, I could do like, I could do like a hundred yards underwater. A hundred yards? Four laps underwater before, in, before I, when I was my senior in high school. And, uh, so I was like mentally ready to do the water stuff, but I sucked on land. I could do the obstacle course and I could do water. I couldn't, the distance running, not so much. Sprinting's fine, but just the treging in the soft sand, I just hated it.

• 2:08:16Speaker 06

  And they told me right away, they're like, listen, be good, but don't be great. Like you want to be, you want to pass and be, you want to be in the middle of the pack, maybe the upper pack. You don't want to stick out in anything. They're going to come find you. And once they signal you out, they sing, you know, sing you like, ah, you're going to get, you get screwed over. Or you're going to get beaten. So I just kind of stayed in the middle of the pack until we did the 50 meter underwater swim. And so 208 was right around the time the movie The Rock came out. Remember the, uh, Sean Connery and Nicolas Cage, The Rock? Well, uh, the command master chief was in the movie, uh, Buds was in the movie. And a couple of the instructors were in the movie, one being instructor Hawes.

• 2:08:57Speaker 06

  Gigantic ripped African American guy. I mean, he was just like, and he had this real deep voice. And the movie hasn't, wasn't out yet. And so we'd go on runs and you'd hear instructor Hawes on the speaker. He go, I'm going to take pleasure in gutting you, boy. Like, what the fuck is that? Like, everywhere we go, we go to the 50 meter underwater swim. And I was like, all right, I got this. Like the deeper you go, the easier it is to hold your breath. So everyone's freaking out. I hop in the pool, do my breathing exercises, get relaxed, hop in. You know, go down, do, do my flip and I stay real close to the bottom and I'm just cruising along the bottom. Touch the other side and I come back. All of a sudden I feel this tap on my shoulder. I look over and it's Hawes and he's looking at me and he's like, are you okay?

• 2:09:40Speaker 06

  And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. And I really slowly get to the end, touch and come up. And I'm like, all right, good. That's over with. He's like, what? Sco Bell. We got ourselves a fish. I'm like, I was like, oh shit. So every time I went to the pool, it was like, hey, where's the fish at? We had this handful of, uh, guys that were great swimmers. Mike was a great swimmer. Tom Donovan was a, um, uh, he was captain of the water polo team at Navy. He was just beast. And there was a couple of us that were, were swimmers. And Nick Hawks, who, um, uh, Dave mentioned, we were the two young guys in the class. He was 17 and I was 18. I turned 19 that year. And so it was, that whole adventure was like, you know,

• 2:10:25Speaker 06

  The other thing, I was, music colors those times in my life, and that's how I go back. And that summer Metallica Load came out, and I had enough money, remember, I was like an E2 showing up to Buzz, and I had enough money, I went to the exchange on NAB and I bought an alarm clock that had a CD player in it, and I bought one album, and it was Metallica Load, and there was a song on there, Hero of the Day, and I had that as my wake up song, it's like, and every day, I would hear the spinning up of the CD as a, and Buzz, you're like, fuck, and then that song would start playing, and that was

• 2:11:10Speaker 06

  kind of punctuated that time, and I was just like a sponge, watching, and nothing was, you know, the evolutions are hard, but nothing is, it's just the amount, I think, you know, it's evolution to evolution to evolution, and we get to Hell Week, and, you know, that, everybody has their Hell Week story, and it was like Tuesday night, or it was Wednesday night, they were surf torturing us, and the sun was setting, and it was, if you look in the paper, the Cornell papers said, big Wednesday, biggest waves in 50 years, like, of course, wake of summer Hell Week, of course, we're gonna get this huge wave, and we're

• 2:11:55Speaker 06

  getting, we're getting surf tortured and instructor schmeck, I'd remember this the clearest day, instructor schmeck's like, who's gonna quit, well, you know, Bob, they do, the whole bullshit, who's gonna quit, and I was surf tortured, I was locked arms with Tom Donovan, and Tom, out of the blue, goes, whatever, punk, and there was this pause, and then over the bullhorn was, who the fuck was that, and Tom looks at me, he goes, that was a bad idea, and he gets up, he's like, it was me, it was me, and Tom was my booker leader, and I'm like, Oh no, they're gonna start beating him. And if they, if he quits, like, that's my guy. You know, like, he's my boat crew leader. And they send us back out.

• 2:12:37Speaker 06

  And, you know, we reorganized and we paddle out and they're just, they beat Tom mercilessly. I remember the trucks going down the beach and, you know, his feet up on the bumper is getting wet and sandy. And in my mind, I'm just praying, I was like, please, God, don't save him. Save him. And we come in, they put him on the, right before we do surf passage on Chief's Beach, they put him on the, back on the boat. And Tom was like, alright. He's like, that guy is just born to be a leader. And he's like, alright, guys. And I'm like, are you, you know, is he okay? We paddle out. And we see these waves roll in. And I'm just like, we start getting closer and

• 2:13:18Speaker 06

  closer and the sun's going down. And like, these waves are like, at like, two boat lengths vertically. And I'm watching the back of the waves and we're like, sitting out there and they're giving the signal to come in. And I'm just like, what the fuck is this? And Tom's like, ready, paddle. We start paddling. And I, one of my only like vivid memories of Hell Week was Tom, the boat picking up. And then I was number one man. I was on the, I was on the port side, number one man. And I watched Tom just go that way. And the whole boat just went. And it was like, it was just in every direction. And somehow, I got my foot hooked under one of the, the cross members.

• 2:14:00Speaker 06

  And I just got drug all the way into shore, like with the boat. Like, just gasping for air, no paddle. And I was just like, what the? And the instructor's like, yeah, one made it.

• 2:14:12Speaker 06

  And they're looking around. And it's like a sea of bodies. And that night, you know, you do the fire thing. And you're telling the story, make us laugh. And that night, every single person they sent to the surf, they sent Tom with. And I'm like, other, they're trying to like, they're trying to break him. And they're like, hey, you know, you tell a story. We're down to probably 25 guys at this point. Every story, fail. Go ahead to surf, take Tom with you. And I'm just watching Tom. And he's just shivering and it's getting colder and colder. And then they have us dig a hole. And our boat crew loved him. And we were like, Tom, get in here. Throw him at the bottom of the hole. And we're like, alright, everybody pee.

• 2:14:56Speaker 06

  And, uh, you know, hell, we, after that, it was like, Tom was just this resolute guy. And I saw it in his eyes, like, he's in quitting. I'm like, I'm not quitting. And, you know, made it, made it through hell week and, and made it through second phase and third phase. And everybody's got a thousand Bud stories, but the Bud stories that I always took away were the people that affected me personally, like, that made me, like, the Dave Butleys of the world, the, the Jake Bantas, the Dave Strong's, the Tom Donovan, the Adam Smith, like, I don't know what I saw in them that I wanted to try to emulate

• 2:15:37Speaker 06

  in myself and, and Mike McCaffrey. And, you know, we got to the end of Bud's and, um, like, I knew Mike and Tom had gone to the Naval Academy and, um, I was like, I think I want to go to the Naval Academy. Whatever those guys did, like, I want to, I want to do that. And in the back of my mind, I was like, my dad always said, well, you can join the team, but, you know, get a degree at some point. And I was like, and I remembered my high school GPA and I was like, eh, it's probably not going to work out so good. Graduated, we go to jump school. Uh, jump school's pretty uneventful, except for, except

• 2:16:20Speaker 06

  for Hawks hanging a banner off the big tower. And all the SEALs always getting in trouble. Checking to SEAL Team Eight and get thrown in training while we're waiting for, back then, STT. And the training at SEAL Team Eight at the time was just a bunch of guys who went on to be legends, one of which was Jeff Tobos, Turbo. Um, and, you know, you're, when you're a new guy in training, you don't have your trident yet. And, you know, you just do everything. And I remember getting there, like, well, actually, what happened was I, I checked into 18 Delta and they said, you're going to be here a year before, um, you class up. And I was like, a year? I'm like, you're 19 years old. Like, I don't

• 2:17:05Speaker 06

  have a year to waste. So I literally got on the horn and I called, I called the quarter deck at SEAL Team Eight. I dug up the number and I was like, is there Command Corps Counselor there? And Rich Black gets on the phone. Like, and he's like, who are you? And I'm like, I'm Seaman Scobell. I'm at 18 Delta. I've got a year. Is there any way I can get orders to SEAL Team Eight? And he's like,

• 2:17:26Speaker 06

  Makes a few phone calls and all of a sudden the set of TAD orders comes in from through the 18 Delta and the SEAL I was a rep there was like, I have TAD orders for you to SEAL Team Eight. A bunch of guys, Gary Ellis being one, one in my class, had gone to Team Eight and so had Mike McGath. And so, you know, kind of politicked a little bit and they got me orders and I checked in. And I started doing Team Guy stuff, you know, like, hey, we're gonna, we're jumping tomorrow and I got all five jumps in a day and I got my gold wings and, and, you know, we're gonna go do VBSS at the time. And, you know, hey, let's got to set up some kit, got thrown in a stack.

• 2:18:09Speaker 06

  And you're like, this is, this is cool. Like, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna do this. I don't wanna go to that 18 Delta course for a year. And, um, and so, Rich Black's like, hey, listen, if you just go up and get, go to Quartermaster School, you can get your rate and you can just stay here. You don't have to go to 18 Delta. And I was like, alright. They sent me up to Quartermaster School. And I was like, well, in the back of my mind, I was like, if I apply to the Naval Academy, I gotta like do well in one of these schools. So I went into Quartermaster School thinking, which is being a navigator. And, um, and I ended up finishing first in the class and being the honored grad or whatever from, from QM School.

• 2:18:51Speaker 06

  And I came back from that and I just, I, I looked at all the, the programs that were available and there was ROTC, Seaman Admiral, and, um, and the Naval Academy. And I was like, like, and there was an age limit on it. And so I talked to Rich Black and I'm like, I wanna apply to the Academy. And, and, uh, and I'm like, I just, I graduated BUDS, was first in my class in A school, um, pole vault state champion, um, good athlete. And he's like, dude, that doesn't, we don't send SEALs to the Naval Academy. Like, it just doesn't go that way. Well, I'm like, well, what do I have to do? And he's like, you're gonna have to get some letters of recommendation. You're gonna have to go up there, visit. There's like a whole process.

• 2:19:36Speaker 06

  So I called Adam Smith, who was my swim buddy in BUDS. And I was like, hey, man, I'm gonna apply to the Naval Academy. Do you think your dad would write me a letter? And he's like, I don't know. Let me call my dad. But I'll be happy to ask for you. And...

• 2:19:56Speaker 06

  10 minutes later, my phone rings and I'm sitting at home and it's Admiral Smith. Hello, is this Pete Scobello? And I'm like, is this Admiral Smith? And I'm like, what? Damn. Adam called me. He said, you won't apply to the Naval Academy. He said something about you being track and field? I said, yes, sir. I was a state champion in the pole vault. He's, how did you jump? I jumped 15'1". He's like, he's like, you know, when I was at the Naval Academy, I was captain of the track team. And I said, I thought to myself, I'm like, this could be good for me. He goes, and my coach is still the coach there, Al Cantello.

• 2:20:32Speaker 06

  What are your grades in high school? And I was like, well, I got like a 2.3. And I didn't take the SAT. Well, I did, but I was, I only showed up like halfway through and, and you know, I was, he's just like, hmm. Hangs up the phone. He calls me back. He waits, like a day goes by, he calls me back. He goes, "Drive up to the Naval Academy. You're going to meet with Al Cantello." I drive up to Naval Academy. Now, Cantello is this legendary Navy track coach. He was an Olympian. He's from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He was an Olympian javelin thrower. And coached, at the time, he was coaching both cross country and distance at Navy.

• 2:21:11Speaker 06

  And he's the, we used to have Cantelloisms. He just had these one-liners that would fly out and he was just to the point. He's like, "Drive up to Naval Academy and knock on the door." And he's just like, "Come on in, sit down." He's like, "I talked to Ray." So I'm like, "That must be the Admiral's first name because it's Admiral to me." He's like, "I talked to Ray." And he said, "You're a 15-foot pole vaulter. Tell me more about your pole vaulting." So I told him my background. He's like, he's like, "You can jump division one."

• 2:21:44Speaker 06

  He goes, "Now, tell me about your grades." And I was like, "Well..." And I'd got my transcripts at the time. I went back to my high school. And my guidance counselors, I was like, "Hey, can I get my transcripts?" They're like, "Why?" I'm like, "'Cause I'm applying to the Naval Academy." They're like, "Shoot, you're never getting to the Naval Academy." And I was like, "Well..." Show it to him. He's like, "Oh, my God." Well, fill out the paperwork. We'll see what we can do. And...

• 2:22:11Speaker 06

  I go back to the team, I'm like, eh, whatever. At least I tried, you know what I mean? But I remember walking on the yard and being like overwhelmed with the architecture. I remember the first time I walked there and I was like, I want to be part of this. I'm like, that's what made Tom and Mike who they were. Like, there's something about this place that makes you want to be better than who you are. And I just felt this like calling to the academy. And No shit. Yeah. You had your trident. And I already had my trident. I'd just gotten my trident. And, uh, and I was in, and so I went back and I'm in the platoon and we're doing BBSS and actually in our platoon with another one of your guys.

• 2:22:55Speaker 06

  And, uh, I come back from BBSS one day and the admin officer, who's a senior chief, she's like, meets me at the quarter deck and she's like, um, you've been accepted to the Naval Academy. And I was like, what? And immediately I was, she goes, well, you gotta go to the Naval Academy prep school first. And I was like, oh, what's that? They're like, well, that's kind of like the, that's for the guys that they, they're usually a bunch of athletes that they redshirt or prior enlisted. And in your case, we're going to see if you can actually hack it academically, um, at the academy. So you're going to, you go up there and you do 10 months and it's an academic course.

• 2:23:40Speaker 06

  And I immediately got this sinking feeling. I'm like, oh shit. I'm like, I'm not smart enough to go there. Like, I'm gonna fail. Like, I hate school. What I didn't know at the time was I'm partial, I'm kind of dyslexic, dysgraphic. I mean, I have a tough time reading. And I'm like, oh no. And I just dealt with it through high school, but it was, you know, I was a good listener. And she's like, yeah, get ready, pack your bags. And I call Adam, I'm like, dude, I got into the naps. And he immediately calls his dad and his dad calls me. And about a couple of days later, actually, we scheduled the call. And at this point, I'm like, I'm not going.

• 2:24:24Speaker 06

  Like, I don't want to go to the academy and fail and then try to come back to teams. Like, the teams are gonna eat me alive. I'm not, I can't do this. And so Admiral Smith calls me, he goes, congratulations, got into the Naval Academy. He's like, we're going to prep school, which is fine. He's like, just get up there, knock it out, you'll be a plebe in the class 2003. He goes, are you excited? And I go, Admiral, I don't know if I want to go. And there was just a pause on the phone. I go, I really love being a SEAL, worked really hard to get here, I'm in a platoon, jumping out of airplanes, I got my own car, I got an apartment, like, I got a life. And the idea of going back to, you know, shaving your head and pulling your socks up and somebody yelling at me again.

• 2:25:06Speaker 06

  And a long pause on the phone, Admiral Smith said to me, the greatest piece of advice I've ever been given in my life. He goes, Pete, when you're forced with a hard decision, always choose the hardest path. It's always the right one. Every time. Call me tomorrow with your decision. And I hung up the phone, I was like, fuck. Oh, no, this is gonna suck. Great response. Yeah. Called him the next day, I said, sir, I'm gonna do it. And a couple of weeks later, check out and head up to Newport, Rhode Island for another round of boot camp. And that's where I met Jeremy. And I show up and all the prior enlisted guys are kind of looking at each other, you

• 2:25:50Speaker 06

  know, you're looking at each other's chests and a couple Marines wandering around, everybody's doing the butt sniffing thing. And this circus began immediately for me. Get your little issue, I go to my room and I'm like, he gave me a robe. I was like, oh, cool, man, I got a robe. I'm like, I'm on my way to be an officer. They gave me a robe. So I put on my robe and I'm like going, so I get my shower shoes. I'm like, this is awesome. I got shower shoes. I got a robe. I put my toothbrush in my mouth and I'm just cruising down the cruising down the hallway. And I didn't know what midshipmen were and I looked, I, there were some midshipmen there from the academy that come in and they do summer detail. And they have their collar devices and, and when you come from the fleet, the midshipman collar devices, they don't mean anything to you.

• 2:26:34Speaker 06

  You know, and uh, this, they start kind of like, what are you doing? And I'm like, what? Like, just chill out, man. Just go into the bathroom, brush my teeth. They're like, you don't talk to me that way. And I'm like, whoa, my everybody needs to take a wrap off here. I turn around and this gunnery sergeant hat like hits me in the bridge of my nose. And this gunnery sergeant, he just starts tearing at me, tearing into me like, like Marine Corps boot camp. And I was like, I remember I put my hand up and I just pushed his, his hat back. And I was like, everybody needs to calm down right now.

• 2:27:07Speaker 07

  I'm just trying to brush my teeth here.

• 2:27:09Speaker 06

  I'm just, that's exactly it. I'm like, I'm just here to brush my teeth right now. Like get, get in this office. They dragged me in the office and it's the marine captain and they knew exactly who I was. And then we're like, okay, here's the deal. They put the paper in front of me, like, sign this and you can go back to the fleet. And I was like, I just got here. They're like, we don't want you here. We don't want the trouble. We know you're going to be an issue. And I was like,

• 2:27:35Speaker 06

  okay, well, I didn't know we were starting this stuff. I was like, I'm like, I'm really, I'm like, I'm, take a second. I didn't know that we were doing this. So can you give me a little read in as to what's happening? And they were like, well, this is boot camp and you, you're back into boot camp. And I was like, okay, well, that would have been like, good to know before this, this whole thing like unfolded.

• 2:27:55Speaker 07

  I didn't know we were playing boot camp here.

• 2:27:57Speaker 06

  Yeah, well, exactly. And I was like, I didn't know we were doing this game, but now that you told me, I'm like, now I'm here. So you don't need that. I'm not, I'm not going to quit. And I went back, you know, then I just like pull my pack, put it in my pocket and I'm

• 2:28:10Speaker 07

  Fine, I won't brush my teeth.

• 2:28:12Speaker 06

  Guess we don't walk, we don't brush our teeth, we don't wash our hair. And they, you know, everyone's supposed to show up and all the priors go through this like adjustment period. And it's all, it's athletes, division, it's all the red shirt athletes in the football team and um,

• 2:28:26Speaker 06

  And they had a track team. And so now, mind you, when I was in high school, I was 160 pounds pole vaulting, 5'11". I went to Bud's as 160 pounds. I graduated at about 180 pounds. And then I really started to lift a teammate and I got to be about 205. So I show up at NAPS at 205 and I'm there to walk onto a Division One track team and pole vault again. Pole vault is a math equation. It's how fast you can run, like how far you can long jump, and essentially, the lighter you are, the higher you can go. So I'm like, I gotta like recalibrate my entire mindset now and I gotta start losing weight. And that's what I did. I started running

• 2:29:11Speaker 06

  like 15 miles a day and not eating and I was like shedding pounds. I just became like the shell of myself.

• 2:29:18Shawn Ryan?

  Did you know that you were only, you were the third ever? Were you the third?

• 2:29:23Speaker 06

  So, yes, I was the third one. There were two before me. Jim Galladay, who was a 1995 grad, he was on Petier Field when everyone, all those SEALs got shot up and he got the Bronze Star. And so he showed up as a plebe with the Bronze Star and a combat action ribbon. This is, this is 1998 at the time. And the stories of Jim, like, just saturated, like it was this legendary, he was a legend. Like, he was mystical. And there was this, the second guy was Jim Foreman. And Jim was SDV1, super cool dude, surfer, blonde guy. He played lacrosse at the academy.

• 2:30:08Speaker 06

  And I actually met him when I went up to visit and he was still, he was getting ready to graduate. And I was like, would, would you do it all over again? He's like, fuck, no.

• 2:30:18Speaker 06

  I'm like, that wasn't exactly

• 2:30:21Shawn Ryan?

  That's encouraging.

• 2:30:22Speaker 06

  That wasn't what I was looking for, man.

• 2:30:26Speaker 06

  So, and I knew I was, you know, I'm number three, but I hadn't been in combat, there was no combat, you know, there was, and that was part of the reason why I went. I was like, well, I'll go to school, like, what, you know, what can it hurt? Like, take advantage of everything that the Navy throws at you was what I was always told. If you get the opportunity to go to school, go to a school. If you get the opportunity to better yourself, go, go do it. Father Frank Malky, he told me that. He was head of training at, at SEAL Team Eight, when I was going through this, whether or not I should go. And he's like, hey, heard you got in the academy. I'm like, I don't, I don't know if I'm going. He's like, nope, you're going. Anytime the Navy offers you an opportunity to better yourself, you go. And don't fuck it up. Just like, everyone's like, don't quit.

• 2:31:13Speaker 06

  So, yeah.

• 2:31:15Shawn Ryan?

  Don't embarrass us.

• 2:31:16Speaker 06

  Yes. This is what it really was. We don't really care about you.

• 2:31:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:20Speaker 06

  We care that you don't embarrass us.

• 2:31:24Speaker 06

  And, you know, plebeer, you know, that boot camp, that first year, it was academically unbelievably difficult. Because it was, they basically take your plebeer, and they academically, and they shove it into 10 months. So you get a head start for your plebeer, right? So you're taking chemistry, you're taking calculus, you're taking

• 2:31:47Speaker 06

  like a, I want to say, English class, but it was a pretty heavy English class. And chemistry is always an issue at the academy, and calculus is an issue.

• 2:31:59Speaker 06

  And I was scared shitless of all of this, you know, like my academics. I was, I always stayed away from academics in high school because I'm like, I had a tough time reading. And now I'm in this, this is all you're here to do. This is buds for academics. And oh, by the way, you're wearing this, you know, target on your chest.

• 2:32:19Shawn Ryan?

  You wear the SEAL trident in the academy?

• 2:32:22Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 2:32:22Shawn Ryan?

  What is that like?

• 2:32:24Speaker 06

  So I used to take it off and put it in my pocket. I go in the bathroom and I'd take it off. Are you serious? Why? Because it was like a different world. I would take it off and just blend in. I'm like, this is doable. And then the minute someone would see me, they'd be like, hey, you're out of uniform. And I'm like, huh, I go back and put my uniform. And, you know, at the academy, you'd be chopping down the hall. And they'd be like, SEAL. I'm like, oh, here we go. And, you know, some kid who got his lunch money stolen, who's a, you know, academic whiz, whiz kid. He's like, you think you're a badass? You think you're a tough guy? Like, sir, no, sir. Uh, you play the game. And then they'd hold me up and I'd be late for class.

• 2:33:06Speaker 06

  You know, and then they're like, then you're getting in charge, you're getting, you know, you're getting in trouble for being tardy. And then you're getting extra tours. And anytime I would go to do anything, everyone's measuring themselves against me. And so it was like being a celebrity at the academy. Everybody, there's only 16 bullets a year. And everybody wants to be a SEAL. And everybody talks about being a SEAL. And here I am, wearing this Budweiser. And they're all like, you know, is this guy that guy? And they all want to, they all want to find out. Meanwhile, I'm like, dude, I'm in chemistry class and like, this is not easy. Like, you can have all of this, this misery, but I need to focus on studying.

• 2:33:51Speaker 06

  And, you know, say, NAPS was, NAPS was amazing. I played rugby at NAPS. I got my first taste of rugby. I got my first taste of, um, I jumped again. I started losing weight. And, uh, but I was focused. I was like, I really want, I really want a pole vault. Like, I really want, I want to see how high I can go. It was in the back of my head. I want to see if I can do this. Like, I just have to try this. And, um, you know, and then you go to plebe summer, which is another six weeks of boot camp. So at this point, you know, I've been through Bud, I've been through regular boot camp. And then I went through Bud's, then I went through boot camp at NAPS for four weeks or whatever it is. And then a year at NAPS where you're basically treated like loosely, treated like a plebe.

• 2:34:32Speaker 06

  And then plebe summer, where you're back to being like, literally shark shit, lower than shark shit in the ocean. You're like back to zero again. And bootcamping it all over. Mentally, you're just like, and now it's not drill instructors yelling at you. Now it's nineteen year old, upperclassmen, right? And they're getting in your face and you're just like, meanwhile, in your head, you know, you're, you're just like, what, what am I doing? Why, this is like the worst thing. Like, I, I went to a place where I suck at everything, right? Everybody's competing with me and now people are yelling at me and I want to beat everybody up. Like, I literally am like, I want to beat everybody up every day.

• 2:35:17Speaker 06

  And during plebe summer, uh, and that's where you start to find your, your. Did you just have Jeremy beat him up? So, so Jeremy ends up in my company, uh, from, we go from nap, so we get in, we end up in the same company. And so he's prior enlisted Marine and, um, bootcamp comes around and we're, we're playing the game. Plebe summer, we're playing the game and it's easy. It's not hard. You're just, you know, folding your socks and folding your uniform and the same shit. You're memorizing stuff and, um,

• 2:35:51Speaker 06

  but both Jeremy and I were just kind of overplaying the game. And so a lot of the, they, they were like, oh, are you a Napster? Oh, you're a prior. You kind of get like earmarked. Oh, you're going to be, you know, trouble and, and we all have fun because we're, we just end up fucking around with the upperclass. You know, just like, and we're having fun on our own. And, uh, that's when we met Brett. And I've been hesitating to tell this story because it's, it, it's, it's hilarious, but it's kind of disgusting. Uh, but it's, but it's hilarious. And one, okay, so one morning, and Brett ended up in our room and our roommate and a big part of our life. I mean, he was like a huge part of my life.

• 2:36:33Speaker 06

  They wake you up in the morning and you chop. So every time you go somewhere, you have to go, "Go Navy" and make a right-hand corner. So you run out of your room, you run to the center of the hallway and you go, "Go Navy" and then you turn right. And then you say, "Beat Army", and you run down to the next corner and you go, "Go Navy, beat Army", and you have to square all your corners everywhere you go. And it's, you know, you've got your socks pulled up, you're wearing your like grandpa New Balance shoes and your head shaved and you're just like, "Dude, I'm back!". So I might roll out of bed and I'm like last to formation. "My God, Navy, beat Army!". I get in and they start screaming and yelling at me. "Scoobow!". Like, "What do you think? You think, 'cause you're a SEAL, you can do whatever you

• 2:37:16Speaker 06

  want?". "Sir, no, sir!". And you brace up and you put your chin back. And they just, you know, it was great for the other people in my class, because they were like, "He's gonna take all the shit anyway!". And at that point, it was like, "I'm getting all the shit anyway, so you're not helping me!". So I come in the room, I come into the hallway and this upper class, uh, this female upper class, who was, um, rather pretty, she, I come in, she starts yelling at me and she's like, you know, "Why are you, you're late, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!". And all of a sudden, I hear this, "Go Navy!". I'm like, "Fuck yeah dude, someone's later than me!". Like, "He's gonna get the shit!". And he came, Brett came around the corner. And now, in the mornings, you wear, uh,

• 2:38:00Speaker 06

  you wear, you have these mesh shorts that are like down to your knees and you have your shirt tucked in, a blue rim shirt and your socks pulled up. And Brett turned the corner and I kinda looked at the corner of my eyes, because everyone, all eyes, I'm like looking at this, "Who is, who's late? Because he's taking the shit off of me, this is gonna be great!". Brett comes around the corner and the first thing I see is his member. And it is massive and he has morning wood. And he, he comes around the corner and I'm like, "Oh!". He's high kneeing, he's like, "Go Navy", and the thing is bouncing!

• 2:38:42Speaker 07

  He turns in and he stares across from me like you are and he whips around and he braces up and he looks at me and he has this infectious smile and I look down and I'm like

• 2:38:55Speaker 07

  And the the pretty detailer, she's looks at me, she's like, "Why are you smiling, Mr. Scobell? Why are you smiling? What's so funny?" And I'm just like, "Huh." You'll find out in a minute. She goes, "You think I'm cute? Is that why you're smiling?" And in the back of my head, I was kind of like, "Well, yeah." And she turns around and she goes, "Harmon, oh my God." She's like, "Get in the room." And very calmly, he has this gigantic smile on his face. He goes, "Go Navy."

• 2:39:26Speaker 07

  And I'm like, "That guy is a legend." And halfway through that day, I mean, I was laughing all day about this story. And halfway through that day, they pulled me aside. They're like, "Mr., um, we're gonna put you and Mr. Harmon together." You know, "He needs to mature a little bit more and he needs to grow up and we think that with your experiences prior enlisted, "Seal, you can, you can help him raise his standards." And I was just like, "Who's helping who here?" This guy. So they put me with Brett and

• 2:40:00Speaker 07

  the plebe somewhere ends and, you know, we, we, it was always a joke, um, you know, his nickname was Tripod.

• 2:40:09Speaker 07

  He was just like, he was on the wrestling team and we would go to, he was on the wrestling team and we would go to the matches and sit next to the thing because he would tuck that thing into a singlet, like, he'd go out there and the guys would shake hands, you know, before they matched and they were like, "What the?"

• 2:40:25Speaker 07

  It's unfair advantage everywhere in life. Uh, and he was unapologetic about it. And so plebe here, I get set up with Brett and Jeremy's in the room next to me and

• 2:40:36Speaker 06

  These guys got to see what it was like for me during that year. I couldn't study. People come to my room. You didn't know who was coming in. Some guy wants to fuck with you, some guy who wants to ask you about buds. You know, and you're just like, hey, I'm not, I've got, you don't realize, like, most people don't understand, like, at the academy, the, it doesn't matter what you major in. You're taking, you're gonna take three semesters of calculus, two of chemistry, three of calculus-based physics. You're gonna take electrical engineering, thermodynamics, weapon systems engineering, one and two, which is applied physics. You're gonna take naval architecture, and then, oh, by the way, what's your major? And then you get your majors on top of that, and then you have leadership courses.

• 2:41:14Speaker 06

  And so this is like, this is, it's a full load. You're taking, you know, 20 credits a semester on top of professional knowledge as a plebe. And then every day you have to memorize the menus for all three meals. You have to know how many days for, to the next Army Navy have been. You have to know just this massive amount of information. And so you're just constantly studying, and there's just all this crap you have to do.

• 2:41:38Speaker 06

  And that's at max capacity already. And then you add the layer of being a team guy, and everywhere you go, you wear this big gold, and you know, people were like, oh, it must have been fun. Like, no, it wasn't, because it was like a, it was like a bullseye on your chest. Everyone was, everyone wanted to see what, you couldn't go anywhere without people staring at you. Like, I'd walk, you'd walk into Bancroft Hall, and people would be in the rotunda, and like, they would stop the tour and be like, this is our SEAL. Like, shit like that. Like, you couldn't get away with anything. And everywhere you went, people were, you know, constantly, and I was always late for class, because people would stop me. I was doing tours.

• 2:42:23Speaker 06

  And they were always commenting, like, you got a bad attitude.

• 2:42:26Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean, do it, doing tours? What is that?

• 2:42:29Speaker 06

  So, you get it up to merits, or you do something stupid, they assign you a tour. So if you get up early, like, 4:00 in the morning, and you take your rifle, and you go down to the, wherever, whatever, there's a courtyard, that's a big square courtyard, depending on the hall you're in, or what wing of Bancroft you're in, and you walk around in circles as punishment, and they'll assign you 10 tours. So that's 10 mornings you gotta get up at 4:00 AM and just go walk around with your rifle. And, you know, demerits and it's just like, everything you do is watched and graded. Every physical PT test, every academic, it's, Plebeer is, it's two full plates of food.

• 2:43:11Speaker 06

  And then throw on top of it being this team guy, this, this, you know, and I'm carrying around all of the, so every team guy that goes there, the legends begin, you know, what Jim did, and then what, you know, Jim Golladay did, you know, and then Fortman did, and then, and what Fortman did, and then what I did, you know, what I'm building. So they, there were these crazy stories. And since then, what's funny is I'll run into a midshipman now and I'll be like, hey, was there ever a SEAL that went there? And they'll be like, oh yeah, it's Plebeer, he killed his detailer. They just get blown out of proportion, you know,

• 2:43:51Speaker 06

  it's just like this. But what happened is, you know, Jeremy and Brett, they saw what was going on, and Johnny, our other roommate, they saw what was going on, and the rugby players, and those guys would run point for me, and the prior enlisted Marines. And, you know, they, I would be getting, I'd be getting raided on my way to meal by some other upper classmen, and Ryan Curry and Mark Pavandra, these two prior enlisted Marines, would just slide in between them, me and the upper classmen, and they'd be like, leave. And I'd just bolt out of there and like, who are you guys? And like, and they would take the heat, and they'd run point for me. And, because they saw, they're like, hey, man, this isn't,

• 2:44:34Speaker 06

  this is already hard enough. It's not fair. But whatever, like, I signed up for it, you know? And meanwhile, I'm trying to walk on a division one track team, that in itself. And I got back into jumping. I lost, I went down to 170 pounds. I went from 205, 208 or whatever, back down to 170 pounds. So now everyone's like, they're looking at me and my uniform's like hanging off me, and I got like, I'm like skinny little SEAL, like a triangle dangling, getting yelled at all the time, like, just getting my ass handed to me on a daily basis. But I started jumping well. First semester, you know, I did okay academically. And then, beginning of second semester, it was February, and...

• 2:45:23Speaker 06

  We had a forestall lecture. So every Wednesday night, you have a, someone will come in and give a lecture. And that night, it was Ross Perot. And Ross Perot was an Able Academy grad, and he came to give a speech. And so Wednesday nights, you get in your full dress blue uniform. So you go to school, you go to class all day. You go to sports, you go to track practice all day, you come back, get dressed, then go to meal, then go to a couple hour forestall lecture, and then study for the next day.

• 2:45:53Speaker 06

  And you go to the forestall lecture, hear Ross Perot speak.

• 2:46:00Speaker 06

  Head back to the hall.

• 2:46:04Speaker 06

  I stopped by my friend's room, and my friend's mother had emailed her. And this title of the email was, "Go find Pete, his dad just died."

• 2:46:16Speaker 06

  And I walked in, and I looked over her shoulder, and I saw that. She just looked at me, and I I walked out. And you're supposed to chop and run. And I just walked. I just walked. The upperclassmen are yelling at me, and I'm just like... I just had this...

• 2:46:36Speaker 06

  I was like that...

• 2:46:39Speaker 06

  People don't... Unless you've lost a parent, you don't know. It's like the day after the day, the feeling that the world is never the same without that person in it again. Good, bad, or ugly. Like, I walked back to my room that night, and the upperclass were like yelling at me in the hall because I wasn't chopping. I was just, I was like, "Fuck you," literally. And they go tell the company officer, you know, about my bad behavior, and I walk in, and Brett was there, and my man just collapsed into his arms.

• 2:47:12Speaker 06

  And he's like, "What? My dad's dead."

• 2:47:16Speaker 06

  And

• 2:47:18Speaker 06

  upperclass come to the door, "Sco Bell, get out of here," and Brett just fucking slammed the door. He's like, "Fucking leave." Locked it.

• 2:47:26Speaker 06

  And Brett and I just sat on the, sat on my bed. And I, I just, it was like the world came undone for me. And um, it turns out that he had died right after I'd gone to track practice. I told you before, I got an A on a calculus test. And I, I went on my way between track or between class and track practice. I stopped at the payphone and called my dad. And that was the, the moment I said, hey, I got an A on a calculus test. And he was like, he starts laughing. That was the class he had dropped in college. And I wanted, it was like me saying like, I, I, I, I got this.

• 2:48:13Speaker 06

  And he just, you know, I love you. It was the first time, only time.

• 2:48:22Speaker 06

  I didn't know what to do with it at the moment. When I hung up the phone, I was like,

• 2:48:27Speaker 06

  wow, that happened.

• 2:48:33Speaker 06

  And I didn't know it, but he had just, he literally hung up the phone. He had a couch, phone was next to the couch. He used to read on the couch, everything. He did just books like it was nobody's business. Laid down, take a nap and his heart gave out. He died on the couch. His girlfriend came in and found him. They called the academy and they knew before, like while I was at track that this had happened. But your attendance at meal and at forestall lectures counts for a point system for your company at the academy. And we were up for color company and that's a great fit rep for your company officer.

• 2:49:12Speaker 06

  And they waited, the, the word had gone out and they waited till I had gone to all of that.

• 2:49:20Speaker 06

  And the, the chaplain, I had already found out. I found out via email and I was sitting in my room and the chaplain shows him in the room. And he's like, can I come to the company officer's office? And I walk in and um, like your father, dad passed away. I'm like, yeah, I found out on email. They're like, well, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna send you home. And immediately the company officer is like, you gotta watch your attitude. And I was like,

• 2:49:50Speaker 06

  Next day, got up, that was a Wednesday. Thursday morning, I got up, I flew home. My friend's parents picked me up, took me to the airport. Flew home, got there, immediately went to the funeral home. He wanted to be cremated. Picked an urn, came home. My dad's girlfriend was like, here's the, um, the will. I get everything. You can have whatever pictures you want. And I was like, whatever. I went into a lawyer that afternoon, I pointed to the executive state. And I, I was like, listen, I couldn't get everything done.

• 2:50:35Speaker 06

  There was, I actually had to sign some more paperwork. I forget what it was, I, but I had to be there. I had to be there, there was, Monday was a day off and I had to be there on Tuesday. I'm like, I have to be here on Tuesday to sign paperwork. So I called the company officer and I said, hey, sir, I need an extra day. I gotta, I gotta clean this mess up. It's just me, there's no one else. And he's like, you know, Pete, you're not focusing on being a midshipman right now. I was like, uh, what? Like, come on, like enough with the games. Like this is, this is, I gotta deal with this. So I called the SEALs in the yard and, um, the SEAL chiefs in the yard were like, what the fuck?

• 2:51:16Speaker 06

  And I get a call back from the company officer and he's like, all right, you're extended until Tuesday. So you have to be here Wednesday morning and I'm six hours away. Sign everything, hop in the car, drive six hours back, um, to the academy. And I wasn't supposed to have a car, but it was my dad's car. And so I pull in, park it at, uh, Jim Golladay was a SEAL. He was actually living in Annapolis at the time and he'd been, he'd come, you know, if I needed stuff, he was, he would help me out. And I'm like, hey, I got this car, I parked at his house. And, um, got back to the academy and first thing, went into the company officer's office and he's just like, why don't you just go back to the teams? Just go back. And I was like, excuse me?

• 2:52:01Speaker 06

  Like, he's like, your behavior, you're not focusing on being a midshipman. Just go. And I was, I'm like, and I remember looking at him.

• 2:52:13Speaker 06

  In my mind, like, he, in that moment, he, I saw my dad's face and I was just like, fuck this guy. Like, you know what? I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna make it. I was like, no, I'm not, I'm not leaving. And

• 2:52:30Speaker 06

  put me on the upper class because of my bad attitude, put me on all calls, which is me, I had to be outside their door at five in the morning because I didn't memorize my rates. The one upper class stopped me in the yard. He goes, what's the menu for morning meal? And I was like, dude, I just literally walked in the door. I just buried my dad. He's like,

• 2:52:48Speaker 06

  doesn't excuse you from your duty. I was like, dude, fuck you guys. And I looked around, I'm like, what kind of leadership laboratory is this? Like, this,

• 2:53:01Speaker 06

  this is just unbelievable.

• 2:53:06Speaker 06

  So I went back, just like nothing happened. I was like, put that away. Damn. Dad's gone, you know, everything's gone.

• 2:53:20Speaker 06

  Couple of weeks later, we were a track meet. And um, the freshman record was sixteen, three. And um,

• 2:53:33Speaker 06

  it was,

• 2:53:36Speaker 06

  the weather was perfect. It was like, sun was out. It was March. My dad died in February. It was the end of March. And home meet. And I don't remember who we were jumping against. Uh, it's interesting about pole vault, that it's all about you competing against yourself. And

• 2:53:57Speaker 06

  that day, I just had an amazing day. I broke that freshman record. I jumped sixteen, three. And I swear to God, on that jump, I felt like something pulled my hips up. So I swear to God. And I,

• 2:54:13Speaker 06

  and for me, it was just like, I had that moment. And I'm like,

• 2:54:18Speaker 06

  okay, like,

• 2:54:23Speaker 06

  I continued to run track and a plebe year ended at the end of that year. My, um, the woman my dad was dating at the time, she sold everything, hadn't a executive, had a sale, the house was gone, but my friend's parents had welcomed me into their family. You know, life goes on and I just kind of put that part of it, and that's just what it is. Your parents die, you know?

• 2:54:56Speaker 06

  But yeah.

• 2:54:59Speaker 06

  My junior year or my sophomore year, I ran track again, was jumping well, jumped mid-16.

• 2:55:07Speaker 06

  And then the beginning of junior year, um, 9/11 happened.

• 2:55:12Speaker 06

  And Johnny, Jeremy, Brett and I, I was in, I walked out of, uh, one class into the heart room upstairs. I got a cup of coffee and they had those gigantic, um, TVs, remember the big screen TVs that are like four feet deep? It was not now where you have the thing screen. And I saw everyone's crowded around it, like, what happened? They're like, uh, a Cessna crashed into the World Trade Center. And I was like, dude, that, you ever been to New York City? Like, that's not a Cessna. And I said, that's a terrorist attack. I just knew it. I was actually in a political science class, walked out of political science class and in between, I was going to a philosophy class called Friendship and Death.

• 2:55:54Speaker 06

  Just then the second plane hit the tower, the second tower. And I, we all scurried off to class. I went into Friendship and Death and the teacher's like, all right, let's talk about last nights. And I'm like, no, turn the TV on. Like, this is happening right now. Turned the TV on and everyone was just, holy shit. Like, we watched the towers fall.

• 2:56:18Speaker 06

  And then the announcement came, everyone go back to Bancroft Hall. And so all the, all 4,000 midshipmen are back in Bancroft Hall, which I was like, cause then you're hearing like the planes crashing the world or into the Pentagon. And I'm like, well, I'm not sure the smartest thing in the world is to put all 4,000 midshipmen in one building right now, you know? And we get back there and a lot of the guys from my class who were, would always come in. Brett, Brett was a legend. He would, he would cut everybody's hair. And so, you know, guys from every team and would, you know, come in and he'd have this haircutting. We'd all talk and BS Travis Mannion, um, Brian Stan, who's a UFC fighter.

• 2:57:01Speaker 06

  Brian came over that night and he's like, what do you think, dude? I'm like, we're going to war. This is, this is war. And we just had this moment of like, holy shit, we were juniors. And all my buddies from NAPS, Ryan, Pabonra, we're all kind of like looking at each other like this is, the game just changed, like the game and we're settling in on that. And I was like, I need to be a part of a team. And I quit the track team and I went, walked on the rugby team. Like I need to be around, I need to get ready for war. And that was like, that was my, my way of shifting gears.

• 2:57:45Speaker 06

  Like enough of this, my dad's gone, I broke the record. Now it's time to get ready for war. And so I walked on the rugby team and uh, my last years I played rugby, started A-side. Played NCAA's a couple of times and um, yeah, it was, I, that's one of my most vivid memories was like, it's fucking on. And but you know, rugby team is right that my, my, you have to take double electrical engineering. And electrical engineering is like the class that everyone, everyone struggles through.

• 2:58:26Speaker 06

  And there was a cheating scandal back in the eighties about the electrical engineering test. And, and I had these two amazing coaches in the rugby team, uh, Major Renforth and Major Shay. Uh, Sparky Renforth is, he's a three star. Uh, and Major Shay who was a recon marine and.

• 2:58:47Speaker 06

  My first double E test, I got like a 5%, not like a 15%, like a 5%.

• 2:58:54Speaker 06

  And Major Shay taught double E. And I go to rugby practice and Major Shay is like, hey dude, I saw your test. Like, what's going on? I'm like, ah, he's like, who's your teacher? Told my teacher was, he's like, eh, sleep through his class. You got a free period afterwards. Come to my room. Come to my office. I'll teach you double E. And man, Major Shay, he just was a godsend. I walked in there and he would, the, the teacher that I had would spend two hours or an hour talking about electrical engineering. I'd walk in there and Major Shay would be like, teach me what I need to be, to learn in five minutes. And I was like, and I ended up getting great grades in double E after that. Like right before the final, I remember Jeremy and Brett and Johnny came out and I'm like,

• 2:59:40Speaker 06

  giving extra instruction to other mids and they were like, is he, he's teaching? And, uh, but you had, I had to apply to come back to the teams. So it wasn't a, it wasn't a, it wasn't a foregone conclusion.

• 2:59:55Speaker 06

  And

• 2:59:59Speaker 06

  at that time, I started, you know, post, post my dad dying,

• 3:00:05Speaker 06

  started picking up my guitar again, bought myself a nice little Martin guitar, play in the room. And, um, it was my way of like, just calming, calming it, making going away. And I had like kind of a communion with my mom. It was like, I, I like that part of my life. I want to go back to harnessing that and to get the noise of the academy out. And, uh, I started playing in the bars. I'd go out and sneak out and put civilian clothes on, get up there, sing in the bars and play. And it'd be, it was so, it was so asinine that when, you know, other officers on the yard would see me, they're like, he's gotta have permission. Meanwhile, I'd be like, you know, throw my guitar in the back of my car, sneak back on the yard and, and, uh,

• 3:00:51Speaker 06

  and so, you know, the years went by and I had, I had a selection again. One of the summers I, I went, they actually, the, the SEAL rep at the time said, you gotta go to mini buds. And I'm like, for what? Thank you. Well, you gotta, you, you know, just because you went through Buzz before doesn't mean you're gonna, you're gonna go back to the community. And everyone was like, wait, you know, Fortman and Galladay went back. He's already got his Budweiser. Why would you? And at the time, that officer was a, um, he was a team guy and he was on the rugby coach as well. And I would butt in heads with him. I was just like, come on.

• 3:01:35Speaker 06

  He's like, hey, listen, there's 16 billets. And he called me in his office. He's like, there's 16 billets. These guys have worked really hard. Just go out and go to SWO, put SWO as your second choice. Go out to a ship, get your pin, then you go back to teams. And we get an extra billet. And I was like, no, that's bullshit. Been, I went to NAFS. I'm here for four years. I'm like, the war is on? Like, uh, uh, this is, this is asinine to me. And I go to rugby practice one day and Major Shea is like, Pete, come here. Major Shane, Major Renforth. And one of the summers I'd done a Marine training and I won a leadership award, um, when I was there. And you have to go to like Leatherneck and I hadn't gone to the formal Leatherneck. I'd just gone to like the Marine fan.

• 3:02:18Speaker 06

  And Major Shea goes, hey, we found out that they're, they're trying to boot you. And I'm like, yeah. They're like, you want to be a Marine? And I'm like, but I didn't go through any of the stuff. And they're like, doesn't matter. We'll take you. And I looked at Major Renforth, Major Shea, and I was just like, they're like, put it as your number two choice. And that's like the kiss of death. Academy, you put your number one choice to spec war. You put your number two choice, it has to be SWO. Because then you can let transfer. That shows you're committed to the community. And so when I had to fill out my preferences, I put down NSW, then I put down Marine Ground, then I put down Marine Air, and I put down every other service selection except for SWO. And I put that at the bottom as, as my like,

• 3:03:04Speaker 06

  kind of fuck you. And

• 3:03:09Speaker 06

  I went into my, right before I went into my interview, I had to go into an interview for NSW, it's all the NSW officers. Major Shay, Major Renford, knew when my interview was and they, I was standing outside the door and they walked up to us, they're like, "Hey, we want you, so if they don't want you, we'll take you." And I was like, "These are two of the best leaders I've ever come across in my life." I mean, they were just absolute champions. And I'm like, "I want to be like those guys, like that's, that's leadership." And I looked around the yard and the Marines, the guys I looked up to the most, and I was like, "You know what? Whatever."

• 3:03:51Speaker 06

  I went into my interview and, um, I was not very good in Spanish, and there's a slide behind you with your grades, and the captain, uh, he goes, and they're all looking at me, I got a Budweiser and a jump wings, and they're just like, looking at each other like, "Wait a minute, what, why is, why is he in here?" And the officer at the time briefed your record, and he started briefing my record, and not very kindly, about my, my attitude, my behavior. And, um, and the admiral, or the captain, who ended up being an admiral after that, he goes, "Well, I'm not going to ask you any questions in Spanish, given your grades." He goes, "But you put marine ground as your number two choice, you want to explain that?"

• 3:04:35Speaker 06

  And I said, "Sir, I'm 26 years old, I want to lead men in combat, and if I'm not ready to lead men in combat by now, I'll never be ready by spending 18 months out on a ship." And he goes, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, it's fine, you're coming back to team, so it's a done deal." And, but that was, it was stressful, so you get to your senior year and, you know, like the guys that you think got your back, they, you know.

• 3:05:00Shawn Ryan?

  Man, that's crazy to me. What's that of? Ego, is that an ego problem, or are they just fucking with you?

• 3:05:07Speaker 06

  Um.

• 3:05:08Shawn Ryan?

  Why would they do that? Where it's fresh after nine eleven.

• 3:05:13Speaker 06

  Fresh after nine eleven.

• 3:05:14Shawn Ryan?

  You're a SEAL.

• 3:05:15Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 3:05:15Shawn Ryan?

  Fresh officer.

• 3:05:16Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 3:05:17Shawn Ryan?

  And they want to, they want to send you to a boat?

• 3:05:20Speaker 06

  Yeah. A lot of times when you get an officer program, um, a lot of this, they'll, they'll compete for officer programs, enlisted SEALs, and they'll take a SWO ballot just to get a commission, then lat transfer back in if there aren't enough billets. So it's not an uncommon thing. Um, some guys come in OCS, they want to be SEALs, but they don't, there's not an NSW ballot. So they'll go, uh, they'll go get their SWO pin and then lat transfer in. It's easiest way to get in the community. So we have a lot of SWOs, SWO officers that turn into SEAL officers. And I think at the time, you know, the, the thinking of that particular guy was, I can get another billet. Uh, I can get another SEAL in. Um, and you know, he'll just get a SWO pin and he, he'll come back to the community anyway.

• 3:06:04Speaker 06

  So it's a win for the community. And.

• 3:06:07Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. If the guy even makes it.

• 3:06:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:06:13Shawn Ryan?

  It's like an eighty-five percent dropout rate at BUDS.

• 3:06:15Speaker 06

  I know. Well, the Naval Academy has like a ninety-five percent graduation rate.

• 3:06:20Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I've seen a lot of Naval Academy grads go through that never should have fucking made it.

• 3:06:24Speaker 06

  I've.

• 3:06:25Shawn Ryan?

  I've seen them quit.

• 3:06:26Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 3:06:27Shawn Ryan?

  And then the instructors ask them, are you sure you want to quit? Miraculously, they're better the next day.

• 3:06:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:06:38Shawn Ryan?

  Which is a fucking shame.

• 3:06:40Speaker 06

  It is. It.

• 3:06:46Speaker 06

  All that said, and all that headache.

• 3:06:50Speaker 06

  It was still the most amazing experience of my life. The education I got there, they taught me how to think, not what to think. You know, like, weapon systems engineering is applied physics and it was, you know, understanding the electromagnetic spectrum, wave provocation and, you know, why HF, why use HF comms, why use the HF, why use, you know, how night vision interacts with NVGs and like, it was like applied physics for battlefield. My political science was the understanding, you know, how governments interact with people and, and, you know, I wanted to know what the problem was.

• 3:07:32Speaker 06

  I always saw, being a SEAL officer, like, you have the why, the what and how and, you know, you gotta explain to the guys why we're doing what we're doing. We're a tactical unit that makes strategic impact. And, you know, how, can you look at the, can you look at the, the, the scope of what's happening on the battlefield and figure out how to apply this force and have the most bang for the buck, like? And, you know, I was a political science major, you get a bachelor of science in political science, but it's like, I don't know what my, I don't even know what the politics were of any of my professors. You know, like, that's unbelievable these days, right? It was like, this is what's going on and let's talk about it, let's, the Middle Eastern

• 3:08:14Speaker 06

  politics, let's, you know, I did a deep dive and, uh, did like 85-page paper on the Muslim Brotherhood and like, it was just unbelievable, like that portion of it, that how to think and how to prepare. I felt, I felt extremely well-prepared when I left there as a thinker, if that makes any sense. Um, yeah, look at, that was worth its weight in gold. Like, that place, they always say it's a great place to be from, not a great place to be, and I will double down on that one. But, but the education that I walked away with was, you know, we used to joke around, like, it's a $500,000 education shoved up your ass, one nickel at a time. It's like, it is.

• 3:08:59Speaker 06

  Um, but I, it was worth it. It was all worth it. You know, graduation day, I...

• 3:09:07Speaker 06

  Everyone else get you get 30 days of basket leave and I hopped in the car and I drove straight out to Coronado and I joined a SQT class, went through a brush up, and then went over to SEAL Team One, found Commander Wilson, said, "Hey, you guys are deploying first. I want to deploy." And Commander Wilson sat me down and he goes, "All right, here's the deal, man. Your education's on the battlefield. You run a gunfire. Any chance you get to deploy, you deploy. That's you don't take you don't take your disassociated tour and go get a master's degree. You go back and this is like, we don't know how long this war is going to end and to be an effective officer, you need to be downrange."

• 3:09:49Speaker 06

  And so that was my, I went back to the team and I was just like, "Okay, let's go. I want to do this." How did it feel getting back to the teams as an officer? It was weird because as an officer, you have to go from the, I was enlisted on the East Coast and then I had to go to the West Coast because they don't want you being enlisted in the same, on the same coast that, but I've been gone for so long that it was like, you know, I knew a bunch of guys and it was always, it was great because you had a ring, so you were part of the circle, but I had a good conduct medal and I was a prior enlisted team guy and so I didn't get sloughed off by the enlisted guys. You know what I mean?

• 3:10:31Speaker 06

  It was like I was able to have one foot in each and getting back to the teams was like, I was like, "Okay, this is what I, this is what I did all that bullshit for and there's a war." Like, I have purpose. I want to go downrange. It was like coming home. Coronado was home to me. One of the, my senior year, so you have different sponsors at the academy and their families that take you in during the, during the time and you go there in the weekends, you can wash clothes, hang out with their families, you become like a part of their family and oftentimes you have multiple families because you'll go home with your, your roommate's family and become friends with them and then they come to your family.

• 3:11:14Speaker 06

  And so there are all these families in Annapolis that take care of the mids and it's just, it's a really cool aspect of it that, that often gets overlooked when people talk about the academy. And I had two real groups and one were the McWaters and she was a Navy captain. She lived on Captain's Row and My plebe year, when I met her, I go over to their house and we knock on the door and her husband answers the door, Bernie, and he sees my trident and he's like, "What the hell are you doing here?" And I go, "I don't know." And he goes, "Where are you from?" I said, "I'm from Erie, Pennsylvania."

• 3:11:57Speaker 06

  And he goes, "I was an intel officer in Vietnam with the Navy SEAL from Erie, Pennsylvania. Name was Dave Strong." And I was like, "I know Dave Strong very well." And he's like, "Come on in." And they became, it was one of those moments where you're like, "Oh, I'm in the right place." They were this amazing family that took care of me. And then Jeremy, we had another, these two gentlemen, Alex and Joe, who owned the Indianapolis Inn, and they've sponsored hundreds of mids. And Alex and Joe were our other sponsor family. And, you know, we go over there and Alex was a, he was a Spanish teacher, thank God.

• 3:12:42Speaker 06

  He pooted me through Spanish so I could get through the academy. But my senior year, the McWaters came to me and said, "We're going with the Catholic Midshipman Club to Rome and then Maggiore on spring break. We'd like you to come with us." And I was like, "Hell no." "Spring break my senior year, we're about to go back to war." I'm like, "I'm going to Cancun." "There's no way." And, you know, Bernie's like, "Our son Brendan really looks up to you and we want him to go and we'd really like for you to come with us." And I was like, "Okay, I'll do it." And so, I went.

• 3:13:23Speaker 06

  And I was, you know, I had my grandmother as a Catholic and my dad always just did not like the whole Catholic Church. And I'm like, but these people were so important to me and they were so good to me. And when they asked me, I'm like, "Okay." And Bernie and I, you know, he was an intel officer with, you know, with the teams. And he's just the nicest, they were just the nicest people ever.

• 3:13:48Speaker 06

  So I went and we went to every basilica in Rome. And there were some admirals, there were some, there were some young midshipmen, some old retired admirals. And it was this massive group and I, I was like, kind of security, I guess, you know, like this gaggle. And so I'm like, all right, I'll go this, but I'll just like, you know, I'll just kind of look over everybody. I don't buy any of this stuff. And the chaplain became my drinking buddy. And we go to, we, he was, they were doing communion like four times a day. And I was just like, whoa, my God, this is like, this is crazy. And every day we'd get down, we'd go to dinner and then I would sit down and I would just start to talk with the chaplain.

• 3:14:33Speaker 06

  You know, because in my mind, I'm like, maybe I should find this thing. I need to find this, like maybe this guy can, he's going to open up my heart and tell me something that I don't see. And if I'm going to combat, like I should have this. And every day we would just pick it apart and I'd be like, I don't buy this. Like I'm reading his words and his word says the kingdom of God is inside you. Like, why do I need this building? Why do I need you? Like, what's this voice in my head? And he'd laugh and, and, and he was great too. I wish I, Father John, I can't remember his last name. We went every basilica, went to the catacombs where the Christians prayed when they were being persecuted and they were buried.

• 3:15:15Speaker 06

  Like walking, I mean, it's tunnels under Rome and their bodies are stacked and like skeletons. We had mass and there's a, there's a small cathedral, under St. Peter's Cathedral. That's like a private mass, we had a private mass down there. And then we all got on a plane and flew to Magegory where the Virgin Mary appears to, they appeared to these children, these visions. And, and it's in Serbia, it's in Bosnia. You know, like, you know, this is like 2003 and Bosnia is still kind of, I'm like, is it, you think guys, this is smart? We're taking a bunch of like military people into Bosnia to go on this adventure.

• 3:15:55Speaker 06

  And then we go to this town and Magicor is this is really interesting place. And the story is that these children were playing and the Virgin Mary appeared to them. And they flew up the mountain. And over a forty year period, she would appear to them and give them, you know, to talk to them about what's gonna happen and then they would repeat what's going on. And I was just like, you with the priest, I'm like, you really believe this? He's like, I'm not even supposed to be here because it's not sanctioned by the Catholic Church. And there were all these things you do in Magicor, you go up and pray on Cross Mountain. And uh, and Virgin Mary, if you're there and when the sun comes up, you're gonna get blessed. You know, and first day we're having breakfast, the,

• 3:16:39Speaker 06

  the, one of the midshipmen comes down and they, they'd gone up and been there for sunrise. They come down and she goes, I saw the Virgin Mary. And the priest and I at the same time were like, bullshit. And I was like, you don't believe it either? He's like, I don't, he, he just, he couldn't wrap his head around it. I couldn't wrap my head around it. I went up there, I was there in the morning. Um, there was another, actually another guy became a team guy, Batista, Jimmy Batista went with me. And we went up for, we went up and slept on Cross Mountain and, you know, we're there in the sunrise and we did everything we're supposed to do. And I'm just like, listen, I don't buy any of this. And so the, right about the second, the last day we're there,

• 3:17:19Speaker 06

  um, we went to see one of the, uh, vision, the, one of the children who's now an adult. They're gonna speak through a translator and tell us what her latest vision was. And so I go, Bernie's next to me and the priest is next to me. And there's probably a hundred and fifty people. And this woman gets up on a deck and she's talking about the vision. And I'm just kinda like, and the translator's giving the translation and I'm just kinda like, alright, let's get this over with. This woman looks at me. And she locks eyes with me. And I feel this like someone's grabbing me on my shoulders and pulling me down. And I can't move.

• 3:18:01Speaker 06

  And I'm just like, and I start to sway a little bit. And I'm like, what the fuck? And, and the priest like looks over at me and I'm just kinda like, and this wasn't like a, this wasn't like two seconds. This is like, now we're into like 10 seconds. And I'm like, I can't move. And finally she just smiles and she looks away from me. And I look over at the priest and he goes, what was that? And I was like, I don't know. And I turned around and I walked away.

• 3:18:29Speaker 06

  And he came and found me and he's like, what happened? And I was like, I don't want to talk about it. He's like, something happened. And I was like, I don't want to talk about it. Like, I don't want to talk about it.

• 3:18:40Speaker 06

  And

• 3:18:42Speaker 06

  we left there.

• 3:18:44Speaker 06

  And I'll never forget that. I wasn't instantly converted. I wasn't like, oh my God, I found it, you know? I was like, I don't know what that was. But that happened.

• 3:18:56Speaker 06

  And I was afraid to tell Bernie and Marty because they're like, see? You're, you're, you're meant to be a Catholic. And I came back and I signed up to, for confirmation classes. And I'm like, you know what? I'll, I'll try this out. And so I went to my first Sunday confirmation class because the priest was one of the chaplains. And I went in and um

• 3:19:22Speaker 06

  he does the mass and then the end of the mass, if you're in confirmation class before communion, they go, okay, you guys leave. Like you're not, you're not good enough to be here. And when we did that, I turned around and I had, I just looked and it was like this feeling came over me of like,

• 3:19:42Speaker 06

  why am I pledging? Why am I? I don't, the word says he's within me. The God, the, the kingdom of God is with me, within me. Why do I have? Why do I need to do this? And I walked out. And after mass, the father was, Father John was there and I was like, I'm not doing it. He's like, why? And I'm like, this just doesn't feel right to me.

• 3:20:05Speaker 06

  And that was it. I left it. Walked away.

• 3:20:09Speaker 06

  You know, graduated and I was like, I tried. I gave you, I gave it a shot, man. I did your trip. You know, I'm, I'm trying, I'm trying to play this game, but I couldn't wrap my head around the way it was structured within the Catholic Church. Just didn't make any sense. It's like, well, what he said, like, isn't what, he didn't, he said, this, this church thing doesn't, he said, he was flipping over tables. He was saying that these guys were, this is the problem. You know, this organized religion. And he's saying that the kingdom of God is within me. Like, I don't understand why I need you. So I gave it up. Went back to teams. What do you think that was?

• 3:20:56Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 3:20:59Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 3:21:01Speaker 06

  What comes to your mind?

• 3:21:05Speaker 06

  Guardian angel.

• 3:21:09Speaker 06

  My mom.

• 3:21:12Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 3:21:15Speaker 06

  Time.

• 3:21:19Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 3:21:24Speaker 06

  It was, it was real. It happened and it freaked me out. But I couldn't, I, I, when you're not there mentally, my ego was in the way. I was like, I'm going to be, I'm a serial in commando. Like, I'm gonna do this. I'm going to war. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just playing these games for you. Like, that's where I was mentally, I think. You weren't open. I wasn't. I was like, I'm trying, I'm playing your games, but I'm just not there yet. And I don't, but it happened. I, that's real. 100%.

• 3:22:06Speaker 06

  And it freaked me out.

• 3:22:10Speaker 06

  Does it still freak you out? Not anymore.

• 3:22:15Speaker 06

  I think it was the... I think it was my mom. I think it was my guardian angels.

• 3:22:23Speaker 06

  Like, "May just make our job a little easier." "Just, can you just make..." "Like, you are a complete shitshow." "Can you just, like..." "Let's try this." "Like, we can guide you a little bit." "We'll have more pull." "Otherwise, we gotta work overtime with you."

• 3:22:42Speaker 06

  "You've got too much going on."

• 3:22:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, I went back to teams and...

• 3:22:52Speaker 06

  You know, first deployment was a liaison officer on the expeditionary strike group. To General Medina. Ended up coming into southern Iraq and we were the northern Arabian Gulf task unit and there was... It was... And I flew around to work with the Brits. There was nothing, you know, little stuff here and there, patrols, you know, overflights.

• 3:23:19Speaker 06

  That was when they, uh, the suicide bomber tried to take out the gas and oil platforms. They took the boat out there. And so we were looking for the cell, but the Brits own the southern Iraq. And that was the Brit A.O. and they wanted nothing to do with kinetic stuff. And so we were trying our best to affect the battlefield, but the Brits owned the battlefield and they did not want anything happening on their watch. And, you know, we were, you know, little, little stuff getting shot at on patrol, but not like in a war. You know what I mean? It was like, "Is this, is this what this is?" But during that deployment, I was at a Danish base.

• 3:24:03Speaker 06

  I logged on to my email. Hotmail, trying to figure out.

• 3:24:08Speaker 06

  You know, the keyboard looks a little different. Trying to figure out like, "Where are the, where are the letters that I need?" And I log on and there's an email from Brian Bourgeois, who was in our company. And it said, "I'm sorry about Brett." And I was like, "What?" Then I scroll down and it was a forward of a newspaper article. And Brad, my roommate, tripod.

• 3:24:35Speaker 06

  He'd gone in the Marine Corps and finished TBI, or TBS, the basic school. He went to basic school, then infantry school, and he was down in Camp Lejeune. And he was rifle platoon commander, getting ready to deploy to Iraq. He and a bunch of his friends, including his best friend from high school and a fellow wrestler, Kevin McCann, they all met up and went to a North Carolina State football game for opening day. And they were tailgating, and a car came ripping through the parking lot. And everybody was throwing stuff at the car because they were speeding. And the car came to screeching halt right in front of the Marines' tailgate. These kids get out, and altercation happens.

• 3:25:18Speaker 06

  And with Brett, they almost hit a little girl. And all the Marines are like, "Hey, man, you gotta calm down. Like, you guys are driving like assholes." And they were obviously under the influence of something. And altercation breaks out. And Brett just wipes the floor with the kid and throws him back in the car. He's like, "Get out of here." And they drive away. Marines go back to tailgating. Thirty minutes later, that kid walks up with a gun in his hand and fucking shoots Brett in the throat, kills him. Kevin McCann, his best friend, not a Marine. Everyone else hits the deck.

• 3:26:02Speaker 06

  Kevin McCann jumps on the shooter, starts wrestling the gun away. Shooter puts the gun to Kevin's head and executes him. Shit. These kids get up and leave. Gone. Not war. He'd spent every single day of my time at the academy. He was two feet from me. He held me when my dad died.

• 3:26:49Speaker 06

  Quite literally, the most beautiful soul I'd ever known. Smile is like, would light up. It lit up heaven. And I just sat in this base. I was like, I read that. I'm like, I don't even know. The last picture I have with him is on graduation day. Standing behind him. And Mr. Ferrier, my stepdad, he just walked on the field with the camera. He snapped this picture of the two of us together. And Brett's beautiful smile, wearing our whites. It was pouring down rain.

• 3:27:33Speaker 06

  And he never, he never, he was born leader. He was an amazing wrestler. But he wasn't the best wrestler. He just worked the hardest. There's an award at the Naval Academy called the Brett Harmon Award. We give out every year. It's the kid. It's like the fire in the gut. You know, he was a part of every good memory I had at that place. All day, every day. We struggled through every class together. We laughed, played music, made up songs, wrestled. Drunk on the floor.

• 3:28:16Speaker 06

  Jeremy and Jeremy and Johnny and I. To this day, I still think it's, I've lost other guys in combat. You know, you lose friends in combat. That's, we signed up for that. That's okay.

• 3:28:36Speaker 06

  That was like, that's, that, that hit me like, I can't even imagine. I, I, I still, it was like a train, just fucking bulldozed me. In the Marine I worked for at the time, Jen Till was his, she was an Naval Academy grad. Jen Till was his secretary and I emailed that to Jen and she went and told the general and he goes, "Send him home, send him home to be with her mother. The other Marines aren't going to get to go home." So I got this note on a base and was like, "Go home, find a way." And so I grabbed field camis, my gun, hopped on a helicopter, flew to Basra. Like, gave my shit to another SEAL that was there, caught a transport plane to Kuwait,

• 3:29:20Speaker 06

  then angled some orders. I was covered and I was, I literally had a backpack with a flip phone and a, and a credit card, landed and took a, and angled my way on a flight with a,

• 3:29:34Speaker 06

  group of Army reservist guys going back for their, you know, mid-year tour break. Landed in Dallas and one of the sponsored dads from the Naval Academy, Mr. Bentley, he was, he'd sponsored a bunch of prior enlisted Marines. He was a legend. He was a, you know, Trident Industries in Dallas.

• 3:29:53Speaker 06

  I mean, it's that you can do a two-hour podcast on the good that man did.

• 3:29:59Speaker 06

  Had his guys pick me up and drove me straight, drove me straight to Niemandsdorf. And he's like, "He needs clothes." I was wearing field camis. He dressed me. He bought a gift for Brett's mother. And he's like, "Here's a plane ticket to Chicago. Go be with his mother and make sure she gets that." And that's from all of, that's from your room. I got on a plane and went there and we all just congregated in Chicago. And Brett was a huge Cubs fan. And we buried him. My buddies from the academy went, they found, they found whites for me. They put together a uniform for me, met me and, I mean, I just sat with his mother and...

• 3:30:47Speaker 06

  And then ass over tea kettle, planes, trains and automobiles, finding my way back to Baghdad.

• 3:30:56Speaker 06

  Damn. Trying to convince people at Dover, like, I just need a flight back to Iraq. And they're like, who are you? I'm like, uh.

• 3:31:04Speaker 06

  But it was, that was, you know, people talk about their first rotation, like,

• 3:31:12Speaker 06

  that was my first rotation. It was the worst loss that I'd ever experienced and it wasn't even on the battlefield. Damn, Pete. Yeah.

• 3:31:31Speaker 06

  He was, he was the best of us.

• 3:31:38Speaker 06

  I'm sorry, man. Yeah. Well, thank you.

• 3:31:44Speaker 06

  I came back from that rotation in Brett and immediately started another workup at Team One.

• 3:31:55Speaker 06

  And, uh, I was like, yeah, anyways.

• 3:32:02Speaker 06

  It was hard, it was hard to shift gears from that.

• 3:32:07Speaker 06

  That one just,

• 3:32:10Speaker 06

  that was just, doesn't, doesn't sit well with me. Still, to this day, it doesn't sit well with me. I can see that. Hope this motherfucker's burning.

• 3:32:25Speaker 06

  They get life in prison. I don't know.

• 3:32:30Speaker 06

  Maybe it's senseless, senseless.

• 3:32:37Speaker 06

  Want to take a break? Yeah.

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• 3:32:52Speaker 03

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• 3:32:56Speaker 02

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  I'm not the first daddy.

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  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 3:33:17Speaker 00

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• 3:33:53Shawn Ryan?

  All right, we're back from the break. Where are we picking up from here?

• 3:33:59Shawn Ryan?

  Get back to the SEAL teams.

• 3:34:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, SEAL Team One. Backing up the team and starting work up again.

• 3:34:08Speaker 06

  You know, go to Pro-Dent, whatever. But I got picked to go to a JTAC school. And I was like, right on, this is cool. And my shooting buddy at the time is Bo Nankibble. And Bo's roommate and best friend was JT Tumlinson. And JT and his platoon had been picked to be a JTAC as well. And so Bo and JT and I always were hanging out together. I said, you guys are going to go to the same JTAC school. JT and I loaded up my pickup truck with two dirt bikes,

• 3:34:39Speaker 06

  snowboards, road bikes, all of our kit. And we headed up to Fallon. And we had two hotel rooms. So one hotel room was the gearbox with all of our shit. And the other hotel room we slept in. And every night, we'd go to JTAC school. And then as soon as it was cut, we'd either go for a road bike ride. We'd go for a run or hop on our dirt bikes and head all around the desert. And I started, when I got out, I started, or got back out there, I bought a dirt bike and I started racing in the desert races. One of my chiefs, Hans Garcia, was like, you gotta try this out. And so I bought a YZF 250. And we would go out and the desert races are like 60 miles, 120 miles, and it's just a loop.

• 3:35:25Speaker 06

  And it is a physical, just unbelievable. Such a, it's a great workout, but it's like, as a team guy, being a competitive person, the minute they drop the bomb on that thing, you're just like, pin it. And you're like, bah! Like, and you go until you crash, and then you get up and you crash again. And it's just like, but it is unbelievable. So I started doing that, and we're at J-TAC school, and there's all kinds of trails to ride around Fallon. So JT and I are ripping around Fallon. On the weekend, we'd go up to Tahoe. We'd go skiing, he was a snowboarder, I was a skier. And we just had the best time. And during that, I think it was a month, JT and I became extremely close.

• 3:36:09Speaker 06

  Like, we were together all day, every day in class, and then all day, every day after class. And, and it was like, he, I just, I don't know. It was, it was, that was the best part of that workup was that trip. You know, dropping bombs, learning how to drop bombs with the Top Gun guys. And then that night, heading out on our dirt bikes and, you know, tearing up the single track around Fallon.

• 3:36:37Speaker 06

  So that was, you know, we came back from that, and then my troop commander at the time, he'd just come over, Team Five, Dave Silverman, he said, hey, do you want to augment Dam Neck? And I was like, yeah, let's send me down range. So I went over, and it was right after Red Wings, like, when I made like, they were, those guys were on their way back, and I was coming into country, passing the airfield. And it was my first augment, and as soon as I got there, I- Dam Neck is SEAL Team Six, for those who don't know. Yep. And so as soon as I got there, I went over the compound. So you have CJ Sodafan, JSOC, and CJ Sodafan is Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force,

• 3:37:19Speaker 06

  which would be all the foreign guys, plus all of the Whiteside, Green Berets, SEALs, STBs. And then JSOC is obviously JSOC.

• 3:37:35Speaker 06

  Anyways, we, so as soon as I got there, went over to the compound. I mean, they just lost, like the biggest loss in NSW history. And a couple of my friends, Dave Williams, was on the helicopter behind the helicopter that got shot down. And it, man, there was this weight on that compound. And it was just, it was just heavy. And Kevin Pope was like one of my sea daddies, a teammate. He was a, he was a mass chief at the time. I found Kevin and, you know, just what happened? And it was, that was, you didn't, you didn't see the effects of war and I hadn't seen

• 3:38:20Speaker 06

  the effects of war until that moment. You know, like you saw it on guys' faces that were, like, they looked older. You know, the guys that were young, happy, laughing dudes at the Naval Academy, like Dave, like, he was visibly shaken and it was like, like, this is real. Like, and it was, it was a really, I remember that very specifically. And we, I was, at the time, I'd just gotten over there and we were running some of the, I was working the desk, the Omega desk, and we were putting together the, so the minute

• 3:39:02Speaker 06

  the helicopter crashed, the investigation went from C G SOTF and it became a CSAR and the authority went to JSOC. So at that moment, all of the investigation was shouldered by JSOC of the Red Wings operation. And they were in the middle of it and since it was out by Assad, and I was working with some of the Omegas, which were the outstations, we were tasked with helping with the investigation. And so going through all the reports and just getting to, you know, see, the whiteboards are still, the whiteboards are still drawn with like, you know, timelines and this one went to here and like trying to, you know, piece this whole thing together. And

• 3:39:50Speaker 06

  Being in the jock suck, man. It was like the cart, the plywood palace. And one of the, uh, one of the master chiefs, Billy, he's like, he, we had a couple of other friends, team guys that I had been through BUDs with. And they're like, you, you're prior enlisted? I'm like, yeah. They're like, you got any good quals? And I was like, I just went to JTAC school. And they're like, he's like, perfect. There's a Hilo leaving in 30 minutes for Kandahar. He hands me a lot of cash. He's like, take this down to, uh, Omega down there. Get out of here and don't come back. And I was like, Roger that. And so, uh, you know, I got to,

• 3:40:32Speaker 06

  that, that deployment was fantastic because it was, I got to call in some airstrikes. I got to see the different outstations, uh, got to see how JSOC operated, which is completely different from how the regular teams were operating in country.

• 3:40:48Speaker 06

  And that was a,

• 3:40:54Speaker 06

  I mean, when I was in Kandahar, I was beginning to ride in dirt bikes. I made dirt bikes down there and, and, uh,

• 3:41:02Speaker 06

  they had a track out in Kandahar at Camp Gecko, uh, which was, uh, Muammar's old compound. And Muammar had built a, uh, cave, Osama Bin Laden had built a cave for Muammar. And it was on the compound and, um, there was a statue at the front of Camp Gecko that had a, um, it was like his interpretation of what hell looked like. It was this crazy, like, it was really freaky. I'd, we'd, we'd go out on the dirt bikes and rip around the track. We took them into Bin Laden's cave and did donuts and that was a. I think we were there at the same time. Yeah, probably.

• 3:41:41Speaker 06

  So that would be 2005. Yeah, cause we were. July and August.

• 3:41:49Speaker 06

  July, August into the beginning of Sep- mid September 2005. When I was there. Yeah.

• 3:41:59Speaker 06

  Weird. Yeah.

• 3:42:02Speaker 06

  The fifty meter, uh, single shot, there was a plate at fifty meters. You go out in the morning, one shot from the holster, pistol, steel plate, and then the hike up behind Camp Gacko. Yeah. Little workout.

• 3:42:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, that was a...

• 3:42:22Speaker 06

  But, um, I came back and since I was a new JTAC, I went and talked to the AC-130 crews and they were going up to site in a, uh, site in the 105s and I said, "Hey, can I, can I come along?" And, um, they were like, "Yeah, sure." I'm like, "I would love to see, from a JTAC perspective, what you see, you know, what is, what..." I, I know what it's like to talk to you, but like, it'll help me picture what you're seeing. So I went up and we were over the range, I was up in the cockpit and the selector, the phone of Ahmed Shah, who was the guy they were going after during Red Wings, the selector popped on a mountain and, uh, the, they spun us over there and they said, "Hey, man, you wanna, we're gonna roll over there, you wanna clear hot on this guy?" And I was like, "Fuck, yeah."

• 3:43:08Speaker 06

  Like, it was a guy under a blanket, making a phone call atop the mountain and, uh,

• 3:43:15Speaker 06

  I don't think it was, I, I think, there's no way it was Ahmed Shah, but it was a bad guy nonetheless and so we, he's no longer on a blanket underneath the, under, on top of a mountain, he just picked up the wrong cell phone.

• 3:43:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, that was, that was, that was interesting to be in the plane and we're just like, you know, looking down. What was that experience like? Just seeing from the pilot's standpoint, seeing the flare and how the, you know, everything, how the whole system worked and being in the plane and watching the, the air crew, um, and sitting up in the cockpit and watching the pilots, AC-130 pilots, like, that, that platform is, that's the most amazing platform we have and, you know, the spooky guys, I can't say enough about those guys, because they fly low and slow and they hanging out there, man. And the amount of firepower that they are able to bring to bear in a fraction of a second.

• 3:44:13Speaker 06

  I mean, because you, you know, you said the, the TGB, the green beam, it's like, it looks like a lightsaber and you just kinda, on the ground, you just, you know, "Hey, rope, yeah, I'm Mark, here, call contact, contact," and then...

• 3:44:28Speaker 06

  They just start hammering and their precision is unbelievable. So to see that from, uh, from the sky and to watch the crews and just kind of be present in there was a really amazing experience. But, you know, had the chance to, I'm not sure who we got, but got somebody.

• 3:44:48Speaker 06

  Nice.

• 3:44:51Speaker 06

  But yeah, we came back from that rotation and, um, they immediately put me in, uh, I had about a month and they threw me in freefall school. And my wife Heather, at the time, not my wife, uh, she was, uh, my friend growing up and we used to ski together. She actually knew my dad. Um, I had this huge crush on her. I met her in the sixth grade and I was like, oh my God, this girl's amazing. She's a, uh, awesome skier, an awesome soccer player. She, uh, post-college, she went and played soccer at WBU and she's beautiful. I just had this thing for her and I wrote her some music. I sent her, sent her it out to her and, uh, In the mail.

• 3:45:37Speaker 06

  On like a CD.

• 3:45:39Speaker 06

  Like, hey, and, uh, I said, hey, you want to come out and go on a road trip? And she's like, sure. It's off-season in Aspen. She was working as a snowboard instructor on Snowmass and she coached the soccer team in Basalt, a high school soccer team. And so she came out for a road trip and I ended up getting thrown into a freefall school. And at the time I was living in Coronado, my sponsor parents from the academy, the, uh, McWaters, they had this awesome house and they had a back alley apartment. And so they rented me this back alley apartment that was a single car garage converted into a, converted into a living space. It had bunk beds. I'm 26 years old. I got bunk beds and a tiny little bathroom and there's a dirt bike in there and a, you know, like

• 3:46:22Speaker 06

  a love sack. And it was like the crash pad for all the team guys. They get drunk at Danny's and they'd be like, I'd, I'd come into my, I'd come into my apartment and I'd be like dudes I didn't even know, like crashing. Cause I'm like, hey, if you're drunk, don't drive home. Just crash at my place. And so you'd wake up in the morning and it was like littered with frogmen. Like dudes would be coming in the middle of the night, you know, like, hey, can I stay here? Dudes coming. I had, I had this tiny little window and these, and I had cinder blocks with, um, like, Two by eights that were that had like a little TV on that were on the windows. And I can't tell you how many times dude came through my window and wrecked my whole two by eights.

• 3:47:01Speaker 06

  It would be all over the floor in the morning and there's like some half clothed frog man like laying on the floor. And I'd be like, hey dude, uh, I'm heading in. Do you need a ride? Like, what team you have? I'm T5. All right, let's go. And uh, inside this awesome little apartment. And yeah, I didn't really leave Coronado back then. I love Coronado. Like that is, that's just, it was awesome. Home. We go to Danny's. It wasn't the tomb that it is today. It was just kind of lighthearted.

• 3:47:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, I met Eric Schellenberger there and I thought Shelley was a bartender. Turns out he was actually a team one.

• 3:47:40Speaker 06

  I was like, oh, you're the bartender from Danny's. He's like, actually, I'm in the, I'm in Delta Platoon. I was like, oh, cool.

• 3:47:48Speaker 06

  So I invite Heather out for a road trip. And I'm like, let's just, let's just hang out and do something fun. She comes out and gets stuck in Free Fall School and I show up and she's sitting in my little apartment and I'm like, I'm like, this is my dream girl. And we ended up hanging out six days and after six days I was like,

• 3:48:14Speaker 06

  you, you want to marry me? And she's like, yeah. And I, I had hoped something like this would happen. And on my deployment to Afghanistan, I actually ordered a ring from, on USAA. So I was like in the, in the jock, like ordering a ring. I sent it and it was supposed to be like delivered, you know, to the apartment and they delivered it to the apartment across, or the house across the street because I couldn't find my little back alley apartment. I came home freaking out. I'm like, was there a package here? It says it's delivered. No, she's like, no. I'm like running around knocking on everybody's door and this woman hands me this like, you know, one carat diamond ring in a box. And we go to the Hotel Dell and uh, I asked her to marry me. I was like, you want to marry me? And she's like, yeah. I'm like, all right.

• 3:49:01Speaker 06

  Gave her a ring. I'm like, I guess we're doing this. And this is about six, I don't know, we're about two weeks from deploying and um,

• 3:49:11Speaker 06

  A couple more, I'm still tying, we're tying up loose ends before deployment. And I go in and Silverman and Ann Kipper are there and they're like, uh, so you're gonna do this or what? I'm like, what do you mean? Like, you gonna marry her or what? I'm like, well, yeah, eventually. And they're like, no, no, you gotta do it before we leave. Like, you got no way to give, you have no way to sign your SGLI paperwork to. Like, and I was like, oh, like, let's go. So we all packed it up and went down to the courthouse and, and we'd like, the, the four of us coughed up our cash. Was like, they wouldn't take cards. They wouldn't take a debit card. You had to pay cash. So we're like, I'm like, you got 50 cents? Like, we scraped the money together. And, uh, and Heather and I get married.

• 3:49:55Speaker 06

  And we go to Danny's afterwards and of course, Bo and Dave are like calling the platoon. They're like, "Sco Bell got married." And everyone's like, "Wait, what?" And so they all show up because they're like, "Who, who is this girl?" And the guys show up and everybody's, you know, we're all drinking and hanging out and, um, and, uh, one of the guys goes, "Mrs. Sco Bell, would you like to order a shot for the, for the troupe?" And she's like, "Sure." And they're like, "What do you, what would you like? Lemon drops?" She goes, "I don't drink that pussy shit. Jack Daniels." And they were like, "This is the girl." And so, and so we hopped in the car. After we got married, we hopped in the car.

• 3:50:38Speaker 06

  Um, I take that, the, the party happened before the marriage. We got, the next day was the marriage. Went to Dave's house. We had pizza and we hop in the car and we drove up to do like a road trip. And we ended up, um, pulling over at a rest stop and we slept, slept in the back of my Toyota Tacoma. And so our first night was in the back of a pickup truck. Nice. Uh, headed up to Heelsburg and, um, went up to Heelsburg. We stayed at this place called the Madrona Manor. And it was a cool bed and breakfast. We were there like two days, did some wine tasting and then I bought a ring, um, in town in Heelsburg and we drove back and it was like getting on a plane the next day. And like, it was that fast. And, um,

• 3:51:24Speaker 06

  I'm like, well, so I did my paperwork. I'm like, so here's, here's the deal. Like, um, I don't have anybody, I don't have family, I don't have anybody, but, um, you know, if something happens to me, then, you know, you'll get this and, and here are the keys to my car.

• 3:51:44Speaker 06

  I don't know, that's what I'll, you know, she, and she, she drives me to the North Island. And it's right out of a movie, you got the band playing, and all everybody's saying goodbye to their, their families, and we're flying out on C5. And, um, the guys get on the plane, and I'm sitting with Heather, and, and I go, I don't know how we do this. And she goes, "Don't be careful." And I'm like, "What?" She goes, looks at me, just very calmly, and she goes, "Don't be careful."

• 3:52:14Speaker 06

  "What?" She goes, "Every time you try to be careful, you do something stupid." She goes, "Just go all out, kill everybody and come home." And I was like, "All right." I canter my keys, and I got on the plane, and Beau goes, "What'd she say?" I'm getting on the plane, and I'm like, "She told me not to be careful," and Beau goes, "This could be a great deployment."

• 3:52:36Shawn Ryan?

  "Told me to kill everybody and come home."

• 3:52:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, "Not to be careful, kill everybody and come home." And they were like, "Dude, that's awesome." And, you know, that was goodbye. And she drove, she never even drove a standard, and she drove my Toyota Tacoma pickup from San Diego back to, back to the valley, Roaring Pork Valley. And I bought her a computer, went to the Apple Store, I was like, um, and we set up an email, and I was like, "I'll email you, and, uh, later."

• 3:53:03Shawn Ryan?

  "See you in six months."

• 3:53:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, see you in six, about eight, ended up being eight months. And that's, you know, we got to Baghdad, and it was 2005 in Baghdad, and it was like, you know, you had the invasion, and then there was that lull after the invasion. And then we came in and made a bunch of stupid decisions, like firing the entire leadership of the, the army, uh, the Iraqi army, you know? I mean, the, the makeup of Iraq is like, about 70% Shia, uh, 20% Sunni, 10% Kurd.

• 3:53:35Speaker 06

  And Saddam Hussein was a Sunni. And so he, you know, he was in a minority, leading, you know, he ran, ruled with an iron fist, the Shia. Iran is Shia, right? So that's, you know, they ran Iraq wars over the border down south. So you said it was the massive influx of Shia. And most of the officer corps of the Baath Party was Sunni. So when we fired these guys, it was like chaos. And that's, you know, these guys all packed up. And that's what started the insurgency. It was like, it was, in my mind, probably the worst decision. And I still hadn't like figured out, like, like, like, I get Afghanistan. That one makes sense.

• 3:54:18Speaker 06

  Uh, you know, Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, that makes sense. What are we doing over here? You know, I was like, it was from a geopolitical standpoint in that moment.

• 3:54:28Shawn Ryan?

  Halliburton.

• 3:54:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, I was just like.

• 3:54:30Shawn Ryan?

  That's what we were doing over there.

• 3:54:31Speaker 06

  We were what?

• 3:54:32Shawn Ryan?

  Halliburton.

• 3:54:33Speaker 06

  Oh, yes.

• 3:54:33Shawn Ryan?

  That's what we were doing over there.

• 3:54:35Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 3:54:36Shawn Ryan?

  Feeding Dick Cheney's company.

• 3:54:37Speaker 06

  We were feeding, and this kind of jumps a little bit. I remember coming in from an op one night and it was around Thanksgiving. And we roll in onto Buy App and we've just been out getting after it. And there's an ice sculpture in the chow hall. And I'm sitting there looking at my, my chief and I'm like, what the fuck is this? Like, you know, we, we had been working with the Iraqi counter terrorist force and we had no, no budget, right? It's like, we're trying to scrape together, you know, gear and whatnot for these guys. And you roll into the chow hall and there's a ice sculpture. And I'm just like, I remember, this is fucked up.

• 3:55:22Speaker 06

  Like this is, like, how do you explain to the guys? Yeah, we're doing God's work. Like this is, we're God and country. Like, what are we doing here? You know, I mean,

• 3:55:33Speaker 06

  Anyway, so when we get there, we kind of got chopped away. It was an interesting time. And the insurgency was starting to pick up. And there was a Green Berets that had trained the Iraqi Counter-Terrorist Force. So the SIF companies had been training these guys for about two years. And they had been billed as like the Delta Force of the Iraqis. And so we're like, wow, that sounds cool. And they wanted to put an Iraqi face on all the operations. So we were in this like hybrid mode of outdoing assaults, but with Iraqis. So, you know, we like, you know, total of like maybe 10 Americans going out. And then, you know, 50 Iraqis.

• 3:56:17Speaker 06

  So we get there and we're working with 5th Group. So there was a time where 5th Group, 3rd Group and 7th Group. And we were kind of chopped away in this really odd. We weren't, we weren't working for Siege of Sotaf directly. And we weren't, we got loosely attached to 16, which was JSOC. And at the time, like, you know, Delta, that was when Delta was spinning up, dude. Those guys are legends, man. I mean, I remember rolling in the green zone and just watching like every night the little birds lifting off the green zone. And those guys are just getting after it and slaying people. It was like, holy shit, man. I got so much respect for the D-Boys.

• 3:57:02Speaker 06

  Those guys like, they were living the dream during that time. I mean, it was, they were just running a gun. So, but we got the, we got the Delta, we got the Delta Force, the Iraq, the Iraq. And, you know, they break it up. We get over there and they're like, you're going to take, you're going to take Recky, the Recky guys, and you're going to do ground mobility. Because I was into the mobility thing. Like I was riding dirt bikes. I was doing all the off-road stuff. And, uh, and we had, you know, NSW didn't do ground mobility, like until we got to Afghanistan. It was like, we weren't allowed to touch anything that had wheels on it because everything that we touch breaks.

• 3:57:43Speaker 06

  Like, you know, remember that old saying about like, put a frogman in a room with a a room with no doors, no windows, and three steel balls and he'll break one, lose the other one, and get the third one pregnant. Like, that's the, like, nobody was gonna give us vehicles, right? And we get over there, they're like, "Okay, you guys are gonna, you guys are gonna patrol in Humvees." And so the NSW mobility was in this like infant stages. And so it was like, write the book on it, how are we gonna do it? And, um, so at the time, you know, we got over there and like, looking at the battle space and the IEDs were going up and we were like five or six, like, a week

• 3:58:24Speaker 06

  and then it started getting more and more and more and, and so, and I was in charge of ground mobility and the recce guys. And so as soon as we got there, I'm like, "Hey." I went to the EOD guy and I'm like, "Let's plot every IED on Falcon View." So we had Falcon View, which is flight planning software, and we were actually using that as our navigational software. Because it's like, the only other way you'd navigate around Baghdad is like, there's like a map, right? And you have a GPS and you try to match it up. And so what we did was we took GPSs, like maritime GPSs, and we would take the GPS feed, put it into Toughbook, and then we would download all the available maps and geolocate them, including overhead imagery into there. And then I would start to layer, uh, you know, "Hey, this road isn't here."

• 3:59:08Speaker 06

  The latest imagery of whatever got blown up the night before. And so we built this database, um, with every IED time stamped. And we started to see these patterns, um, emerge. And it was like, you know, right before, uh, curfew, IEDs would go off and then right in the morning, and they're on the main MSRs, and then you'd see them around the FOBs. And so, you know, as an elite navigator, I was like, "All right." So we would, I would throw these potential routes in there, um, you know, red, yellow, and green routes. And we would just, we'd head out and I'd navigate, we would navigate on flight planning software so we could use the latest and greatest, um, uh, navigational stuff.

• 3:59:51Speaker 06

  The Army had a navigational component in their, in their system, but it was like, like this big thing in the Humvee, and then your blob was like this big and it, you can't see turns, you can't, it was like, kinda useless. So we created this like our guys do. We just innovated, you know, we, we created this database. We created a new way to navigate and my recce guys, I get there and I'm like, ah, this is gonna be cool. Like, you know, like we get the recce guys, like they plain clothes and their mission was to, you know, we would give them, we would give them a location where we, a known location of a bad guy. And we'd put them in a car and they had cameras in the car and then we would put the, um,

• 4:00:36Speaker 06

  we put an eTrex in it with a hidden puck and they would drive out. They would go to the, where they thought the location was, take a couple of pictures. They would come back, I'd download the pictures and we would pull the breadcrumbs off and analyze the route. And then that night that was used for the assault force, right? So that's how we were kind of using these guys. And so, you know, and they were also tasked with, you know, cumin.

• 4:01:03Speaker 06

  And so we get there and, you know, we're, we had a great working relationship with the, um, Greenbrace. I love those guys. Phenomenal group. Um, they were just like,

• 4:01:17Speaker 06

  we've been training these guys for two years. We take them out to the range. We're like, well, let's, you know, let's see what we got. And, you know, let's do some, they're wearing plain clothes. The recce guys are plain clothes. And I'm looking at my crew and I'm just like, feeling like maybe I didn't get like the, the elite group. You know what I mean? These guys pull out a holster and dude, like we were diving for cover. We're like, what? The bullets going everywhere, sweeping everything. Come to find out, one of the guys, he had shot himself in the foot like the week earlier in his barracks room. And I'm just like, I'm like, oh, maybe, maybe, maybe this can be a little rougher than I'm thinking. And I come to find out like, nobody wanted to be in recce. So like, I got the, like the bad news bears of, of the group.

• 4:02:02Speaker 06

  The fifth group guys are like, okay, magical seals. Let's see what you can do with these fucking guys. And we were just like, all right, I guess we gotta, we gotta start training these guys and the. The other side was like, well, take the car. And they were like, no, we're not, we're not driving that car. I'm like, why aren't you driving to like, we've been, we've driven this car in every neighborhood in Baghdad. And every time we drive in, this is via the Terp, every time we drive in there, like, they know the assault force is coming. So we're gonna, they were scared of driving the cars in. I was like, well, let's get them new cars. And, you know, of course, the green braids are like, no shit, we haven't thought of that, you know? We're like, we don't have any budget. We got no money. I'm like, there's ice sculptures in the, in the, in the chow hall, and there's no budget for these guys that are out there.

• 4:02:45Speaker 06

  You know, we're conducting ops. So I'm like, so one night we go on a lot and we kill a guy. And there's a key, there's a set of keys in the room, in the house. And I walk out on the street and there's a clicker and beep beep, there's a suburban. And I was like, he's dead. And it's my new guy. I'm like, let's drive this thing back. We drive it back. And I'm like, we gotta, so we had a mechanic that worked there. His name was Ali. He was either Mohammed or Ali. And I go to Ali, I'm like, hey, you know, we need to sell this and buy a new one. And I'm working with my Terp who's Sudanese, you know, and he's doing, doing the go between. His name was Pete. And Ali, he gets it right away. He goes, yeah, me go Baghdad.

• 4:03:29Speaker 06

  And he, the next day, he comes back and he's got a new car. And I'm like, I'm sure he's, you know, sold it, kept some money, whatever. I didn't care. So then I'm like, where else are there cars around here? They're like, well, the diff has got cars that we confiscate, the interrogation facility. So we sneak over there one night and jump the fence. We start looking at cars with Ali and we're like, pick a couple that can be fixed. And so we gank those and we steal those, take them Baghdad, swap them out, bring it back, rig up new cameras. Now we got, we got, we've got new, new stuff. Meanwhile, we're trying to train these guys who they're not, these guys are not elite.

• 4:04:09Speaker 06

  The one morning, I'm like, uh, hey, all right, guys, gotta be here tomorrow, nine o'clock. Lieutenant Mohammed looks at me and goes, Inshallah. And he leaves. And I look at the Terp and I was like, God willing? He's like, they're not coming at eight o'clock. At ten o'clock, they show up like, hey. And I was like, all right. Next day, I'm like, eight o'clock. They're like, Inshallah. So at eight oh five, I'm standing at their barracks with a flash crash grenade. I was like, whoosh. Blah, I'm screaming out and they're running by me. I'm like, Inshallah. Like, you'd think that would get them motivated. They showed up at like nine thirty the next day. They're like, we're, you know, it's better. I'm like, we're making progress.

• 4:04:53Speaker 06

  Um, so we started scavenging. You know, we, we started scavenging and, you know, I go to the dump and I found like a CB generator. And we'd sell that, sell that on the black market and use the money to buy new equipment and gear. And we were training with them and, and they started to get more capable. I mean, you know, like they were getting more confident and, you know, we teach them how to shoot from the holster. We get them some new gear, like I, the stepsister worked for North Face and I called her up and I was like, you got any like old North Face gear that you guys don't want? Cause they would see us in kit, you know, we'd have like cool, cool guy stuff. So I had her, she, she mailed over a bunch of old stuff from the, um,

• 4:05:38Speaker 06

  that was like laying around, extra inventory. And I handed it out. These guys get like black day, they're like, we're, we're like cool guys now, you know? They're running around and Recky like started to become like cool. As that was going on, Dave Silverman was just, you know, I call him the Silvermanian devil. He just knows how to get shit done and he, he just spins. And Dave's working liaison piece and we send some like, we send our, uh, we send a couple of guys up to, um, MNFI, we send a guy over to, uh, to sixteen.

• 4:06:14Speaker 06

  And at the time, you know, like, there's a whole bunch of, you know, there's rivalry everywhere, but it was just like inter-service rivalry and within the army from the Green Berets to, you know, CG sort of to SIF, or JSOC to SIF. And so we sent one of our guys up there and he won over the trust and they started farming out targets to us because we had, we had the Iraqis. And so our op tempo started to increase. And so, you know, they'd come back, I'd take the information throughout in Falcon View and we started, our op tempo started to increase. And just during that time was when all of the cell phone stuff started to take off. And that's when like,

• 4:06:58Speaker 06

  Delta's ops went to like four a day. I mean, they were just like, just over and over. And, you know, we, we, they started winning, we started winning their confidence and a lot more targets started flowing to us. I think what also happened was they just had too much work. And we had, so they would send us to the sensitive stuff. Anything that was, we don't want an American face on that, we need an Iraqi face on that. And we had this amazing working relationship with the fifth group and third group. And I'm feeling, I mean, it was just awesome. And handful of team guys, handful of Green Berets, leading this hodgepodge of,

• 4:07:40Speaker 06

  you know, Iraqi Delta force out and about. And we ended up going from one op a week to four a day. Four a day? Yeah. And we cleaned out the top 10 deck a few times. We caught, I think the number,

• 4:07:58Speaker 06

  number four Al Qaeda. I mean, the stories out of that, I mean, we're just making shit happen, dude. Like you, you're trying to figure a step out. One of the, I went to the green zone one day. And by this point,

• 4:08:12Speaker 06

  You know, it was, that was like Wild West of Baghdad in those times. Like, you know, you leave out of the Flying Man, you'd leave, you know, from the Flying Man, head in the green zone, you cross that big bridge, and then you enter the green zone. And every time you'd roll out of there, it was just like RPGs and small arms fire, and everyone would button up, and it was just like a race course, like convoy after convoy, making the, you know, the beeline. And what I found was like, you just drove in a regular car, nobody shot at you, nobody cared. So everybody, my cell force was sleeping all day, and they were up all night. And since I was working with my recce guys, I was up all day, I just, I'm like, hey, I need shit, I need to get done. So I would just take one of

• 4:08:53Speaker 06

  the cars that we still drive in, meet the guys in the green zone, get target packages, come back. And, you know, we were just making shit happen during that time. And it was, it was a, it was crazy. It was, it was one of those, like, but it was, it was team guys doing what team guys do. Um, you know, make, make, make away. It wasn't, and it wasn't all pretty, you know, like, I remember, you just, we'd be, we'd be out, like herding cats, and with, with the Iraqis, and you're just like, I mean, our assaulters would go in the room, and instead of having a gun on, they would have their hands on the back.

• 4:09:33Speaker 06

  They'd be, "You over here, you over here." Like directing, it was, it was that kind of, you know. But, you know, hey, we make it work. And, um, you know, I can remember being on, being out there and seeing the Delta, like, coming by, like, taking off from the, the green zone, and the, and the little birds, I'm like, it's like thoroughbreds. Wow. And I'd look down, and I'm like, riding glue stick. This is not what I was expecting, but you know what? We're, we're getting work done, you know? Everybody's experience over

• 4:10:12Speaker 06

  there is different. And, um, you know, that, that, you know, a bunch of interesting little stuff happened during that, but it was, um, it wasn't until the end of that rotation, that was when the Sodder City uprising happened. Uh, it was like March of 2005. I don't know if you recall that, that was, there was a couple car bombs that went off in Sodder City, and it was just like...

• 4:10:38Speaker 06

  Like tensions were really high. And our force was like, fuck this, we're going home.

• 4:10:45Speaker 07

  Like, are you serious?

• 4:10:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, they were. I remember sitting down, the Iraqis, because they would rotate every two weeks. So, and, you know. You get a new batch in, it was like, they knew, knew everybody, every two weeks would rotate. And when this civil war kicked off, I was like, hey, I gotta go home and defend my family. And, and we had the same kind of demographics of the force, you know, we had, you know, 60% Shia, 20% Sunni, 10% Kurd. And, you know, you could see the guys like percolating and I remember during that time, like trying to, you know, like, hey, we're, you guys are the future of Iraq. And, and trying to like mend this, this, I don't know.

• 4:11:28Speaker 06

  It was unnerving because you're going out on target and you're just like, are you going to turn on each other? Are you going to turn on us? Are we in the wrong neighborhood? You know, it was a really, that was a, that was an unnerving time. And we had sent guys out to follow, essentially, there was a one guy we had been looking for. And we hit his house, but like a soft hit because he had a sister. And we had hit the house and we had essentially made friends with her. And she didn't like the guy we were going after because he abused his wife. And so we'd convinced this girl to just take a cab to where he lived.

• 4:12:13Speaker 06

  And our guys were going to follow it, mark the target and come home. And that was like right as the uprising started. And while we're conducting that, they like, I'm on the phone with these guys and they get rolled up. And it's like hell breaks loose in, in Sotter City. And they got grabbed and silent, like probably six guys we've been working with. And, um.

• 4:12:52Speaker 06

  They got tortured. They got tortured and killed. I think it's stuffed in a morgue. And our assault force, all of the guys, all the Iraqi Conterers Force guys, hopped on the gun trucks, drove in to the morgue, and then went Winchester, all 50s, they were shooting pistols out of the turrets, dug through the morgue and got their guys' bodies. Damn. And they came home. How did they torture them? They had cut off their genitals, put them in their mouth, they'd skinned them.

• 4:13:29Speaker 06

  They had, they had drilled, there were drill in their legs, they were drilling them. And I, this was Iraqi on Iraqi. It was like, and those guys, man, they fought their way in, fought their way out, and brought their brothers home. And I don't know why we went to Iraq, I really don't, but, you know, we always talk about like, why do you fight? You fight for the guy next to you. And I was, I was really proud that day of what they

• 4:14:09Speaker 06

  did. And they went in there and they fucking fought to the last round, dug through a morgue and got their brothers that had been tortured and brought them home. And, you know, I'm sure it went against, they were in the wrong neighborhood, there were, there were, you know, Shias and Sunnis and Kurds fighting together. Like, those guys went in there and just duked it out. They brought them back. And I went to the head of the ICTF and I said, "Let's get the families." And I nailed their coffin shut. I'll never forget that. I personally nailed their coffin shut because one of the guys, Saad, had given

• 4:14:47Speaker 06

  me, he gave me a gift, one of the red addresses, and he gave it to me, like, and, like, right before that, like, and he was like, just, he'd given me that, and it, and it was his, he went on that up. And I was like, "Fuck this. We'll bring the families in." And we did the best that we could. I nailed the coffin shut personally. And I-

• 4:15:17Speaker 06

  Gave them back and I could never explain why. You know what I mean? Like that was it. I started to lose a lot of.

• 4:15:31Speaker 06

  We're supposed to be doing good. We're supposed to be, this was supposed to be a positive. You know, we're going to free this country and I was just watching what they were doing to themselves. And the only good I could find was in the brotherhood of of those warriors. They were amazing. And you know, I joke about at the beginning, they were the bad news bears, but they fought like lions.

• 4:15:56Speaker 06

  They really did.

• 4:15:58Speaker 06

  And

• 4:16:01Speaker 06

  we came back from that rotation. And I actually flew back early about a week. Because I'd gotten orders to SDB team one.

• 4:16:13Speaker 06

  My old boss said, don't take it in downtime. Get an operational, you know, chance, take another operational rotation. You know, we came back from that one and

• 4:16:25Speaker 06

  Heather picked me up. Actually, I landed. Flew to Colorado, met Heather and I was like, hey, we're going to Hawaii. Pack your shit. And

• 4:16:39Speaker 06

  we got pregnant with Lena. Right after that, she got pregnant. I hate when dads are like, we got pregnant. Yeah, not us, it's them.

• 4:16:51Speaker 06

  But you know, now all of a sudden, it's like we came back and

• 4:16:56Speaker 06

  you know, coming back from that was the first time he's like you, you, within 48 hours of seeing that and being part of that.

• 4:17:06Speaker 06

  To sitting in a restaurant in Aspen, Colorado, having dinner. I was like that short of a timeframe. And I was just like.

• 4:17:18Speaker 06

  I remember having second thoughts about what we're doing, but I was excited about going to the undersea stuff. You know what I mean? I'm like, I always want like.

• 4:17:28Speaker 06

  The Frogman thing was why I came in. But that, I still can't get that one out of my head. I can't get Iraq out of my head because it just could never, I never got the answer to why. And I, and I think a lot of guys, we lost a lot of really amazing Marines and, and just Americans in general, but guys that I, Marines that I knew personally from the academy and, you know, it just never sat with me, never sat well with me. But coming back after that was just, the, the sheer, where you go from this massive violence to you're in a five star hotel restaurant in Aspen, you're like, there's something's wrong with this picture and you're trying to be okay. And at that time I was okay.

• 4:18:13Shawn Ryan?

  To your new wife.

• 4:18:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 4:18:16Shawn Ryan?

  You've barely spent any time with.

• 4:18:17Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 4:18:18Shawn Ryan?

  And so we. You talked to her about it?

• 4:18:21Speaker 06

  No. So.

• 4:18:23Shawn Ryan?

  She have any idea?

• 4:18:25Speaker 06

  I don't think at the time, I just kind of kept that to myself.

• 4:18:29Shawn Ryan?

  Why?

• 4:18:30Speaker 06

  What'd you say? Like, so what were you doing? I was, I mean, nail and coffin shut. And we, some of the, some of the nights were worse than others, you know? I mean, we flipped Humvees off a bridge one night, off the bridge going into Baghdad. We're trying to teach the Iraqis how to drive and Iraqi police got into our convoy and our guys tried to, Iraqis tried to get them out of the convoy, lost control and they flipped the Humvee with a bunch of ICT assaulters in the back. They flipped the Humvee off.

• 4:19:04Shawn Ryan?

  Shit.

• 4:19:05Speaker 06

  And they landed upside down and then the ambush started and I, you know, that was the night that I, I was heading out to another op and they were calling me QRF and I rolled up and I was just like, oh my God. You know, we're like picking up body parts on, on the street and the Iraqi just got, I mean, there were two SEALs inside the car that were okay, fortunately, but the Iraqis in the back when the Humvee went over, it flipped upside down and landed on top of itself. And it was just, it was just a mess. I mean, I, I remember walking up to that scene being like, oh.

• 4:19:40Speaker 06

  Shot at her just like, holy shit. You don't see this in, this isn't in the movies. You know, like that. Literally pick up a hand. That's in a movie, but like, literally pick up a hand, throw in the back of a Humvee. The Iraqis were like freaking out on our ground force commander, Will Hodge at the time. Like you, you get helicopters here and we're like, the, the, the hospital's right there. And they're like, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, if this were Americans, you'd get helicopters. And you know, some of the Iraqis were really emotional, like ripping their body armor off while we're getting shot at. And you're just like, I remember pulling up to the scene and seeing Will and I'm just like, dude. And he's like, just get them out of here. Get them out of here.

• 4:20:24Speaker 06

  And we were putting body parts and Iraqis in the back of a vehicle. And, and this was all kind of happened at the end of the deployment. Like it was like, it, it was like quiet, quiet, quiet. And then ops ramped up and then it was just like shit everywhere. And, uh, and the stress of the, you know, that was right at the time when the EFPs showed up. And you saw the pictures of the EFPs, you know, it's a shape charge. And explosively formed projectiles that the Iranians had built and shipped over. And you know, the offset was already built and they were using the, uh, the garage door sensors. Where they would put the garage door sensors out. So when the front of the Humvee broke the, the, um, the, the laser, it would, it was the perfect distance.

• 4:21:09Speaker 06

  So the EFP would go off and go through the passenger side and the driver's side and suck everybody, the overpressure would suck everybody in the Humvee out. And I mean, these IEDs were happening everywhere. It was just like, and I remember somebody, I just remember the Marines were building, um, like arms that stuck out over the front. Remember that they drive around Baghdad with the arms, what does the best you could do? You know, like, let's let the bomb go off and take out the front of the Humvee. Let's stop the, not stop the bomb. I mean, you know, and then we were doing four ops a day. And it was just like, it was that, that ending, it was just like this.

• 4:21:48Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, are these ops, I mean, are they all kinetic?

• 4:21:52Speaker 06

  Oh, what?

• 4:21:53Shawn Ryan?

  Are these all kinetic ops?

• 4:21:54Speaker 06

  Yeah. So what was happening is. That's when all the SIGINT stuff was kicking off and they were tracking selectors. And, you know, essentially what would happen is these, they would start popping, they would, Green would head out and they were hitting and whatever was left over, they were passing off to, or the, or the targets like, you know, we hit the Mala Ali mosque one night. They, you know, they didn't want, they didn't want, they wanted more Iraqis on assaulting a mosque than Americans. And so when there were sensitive targets like that, or anything that was quasi-sensitive, they would send us. And so we ended up as this like additional

• 4:22:33Speaker 06

  arm of Green during that rotation. So it was just individuals going after. But what's in it? You know, I think that's the hardest thing for me was like, they're HVTs. Well, defined high. What is a high value target? Like, you know what I mean? Like what, like when the risk got to that point, you're, you're putting, you're putting all these people at risk. In my mind, I'm like, strategic force, tactical operation, like, is the juice worth the squeeze on this? Or we just, are we just chalking up numbers? And you still can't explain to me why we're here in Iraq? You know, like I,

• 4:23:15Shawn Ryan?

  Did you, did you personally go kinetic?

• 4:23:20Speaker 06

  You mean like shoot somebody?

• 4:23:21Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:23:22Speaker 06

  Yeah. And the, most of the engagements happened in, for us, for me, it wasn't in the house, it was out the street. So as soon as you pull up and you breach the door, that's when the shitheads come out. And so, yeah, we were engaging guys in the street all the time. That was, I mean, 100, 200 yards. Like, did I hit him? I don't know. Returning fire? Absolutely.

• 4:23:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, that, I mean.

• 4:23:54Speaker 06

  I mean, how did all the killing feel to you? Wasn't in my. Did you even have time to think about it? No, that, we were at the, at the end, when we were hitting targets, it was like.

• 4:24:10Speaker 06

  Most of them were either the wrong place or a dry hole. And so.

• 4:24:17Speaker 06

  That was frustrating as well because you're, you're following, you're chasing the imaginary cellphone. Right? And that's the bad guy.

• 4:24:27Speaker 06

  And so again, the engagements for me were out in the street.

• 4:24:31Speaker 06

  Guys pulling up, taking pot shots, driving off, getting in gunfights with the Iraqi, with the Iraqi police. You know what I mean? It's just like.

• 4:24:41Speaker 06

  You didn't know who the, like, who's, are you the good guys? Are you the bad guys? And with the, with. They're thinking the same thing. What's that? The Iraqi police and the Iraqi army. Hundred percent. Because when we, you know, we were driving everywhere.

• 4:24:56Speaker 06

  Blacked out on nods as fast as possible. Like, that's, I'm like, hey, we go on, we go blacked out on nods, drive as fast as you can, keep a low profile. And avoid IED alleys. And it was, and then, you know, they just kept, they started dropping.

• 4:25:15Speaker 06

  More grids. So you're hitting a grid.

• 4:25:21Speaker 06

  You know, and tensions are rising. It was the, that's when the slaughter city started and they just all over the country. They were bombing different churches.

• 4:25:31Speaker 06

  It was like. Everybody just wanted to fight. And we were kind of trying to. Navigate that. If that makes sense. It wasn't like a, you know, the team three guys that came after us, you know, they had a completely different, they were, they were moving to, moving to engage as, you know, full platoons. But we were out there onesie twosies with, you know, five, five Iraqis or, you know, taking them from point A to point B. So you're, that was always unnerving for me because it's not like I got 40 SEALs with me. I got five SEALs who are, or Green Berets who are managing the, these guys

• 4:26:16Speaker 06

  and literally running around. I mean, it was, it, it was chaotic. That was, that, that, it just, it was like this. And then it ended here. And then it was like, now you're home. You know what I mean? I do. It was like this slow build. Yeah, this isn't so bad. And there's a lot of funny shit that happens, you know? I always like to remember the, the funny, the funny moments more than, you know, we, we had a rocket hit next to our trailers and shrapnel went through my guitar. I was sitting up

• 4:26:58Speaker 06

  the stand where our trailers were all in a circle. And, uh, everybody's doors fly open. Everybody okay? My chief, my chief was standing across rock and roll and I was like butt ass naked. I'm like, they got my guitar. And rock and roll. He goes, those sons of bitches. Turns around and slams the door. I'm like, I'm like, come on, man. You're gonna get my guitar? Like, this is bullshit.

• 4:27:28Speaker 06

  You know, it was, yeah. That rotation was, again, it was like this. And then, you know, that, the, the ending of nailing the coffin shut and was like, go back to your trailer, pack up your shit, fly home. It all happened in that period of time. And I left and they just kept going for the next, I mean, they, they were, I think they, I don't know how many more ops they did before they got on the maps, probably home two weeks early. And they, they, they went all the way up to the, the gun and then Four days. Yeah. Man, it was crazy.

• 4:28:09Speaker 06

  I came home and orders and packed up and I was there when the guys came home, you know, said goodbye to the platoon. And then we went to SDV school.

• 4:28:19Shawn Ryan?

  Can you describe what SDV is?

• 4:28:21Speaker 06

  It's a delivery vehicle. Uh, so it's a 22 foot mini submersible. Sounds really sexy. Uh, battery powered mini subversible, um, submarine, submersible, I guess, not submarine. It's wet inside, so it's not dry. So, um, you know, then you navigate with Doppler, uh, you do GPS updates. Got about

• 4:28:43Shawn Ryan?

  That's run by batteries?

• 4:28:44Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, man.

• 4:28:45Shawn Ryan?

  I didn't know that. I've never been in one.

• 4:28:47Speaker 06

  Short out there, zap you with the butt, dude.

• 4:28:49Shawn Ryan?

  I never wanted to go there.

• 4:28:51Speaker 06

  SDVs is

• 4:28:54Shawn Ryan?

  I always envisioned it is looking at a screen packed in there freezing your ass off all the time.

• 4:29:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, no, dude.

• 4:29:03Shawn Ryan?

  Just constantly wet.

• 4:29:04Speaker 06

  I always tell this

• 4:29:07Speaker 06

  I tell this story all the time. My, one of my, um, my pilot was Tebow. And Tebow was actually attached to SEAL Team One was with me in Iraq. So when I got to SDV Team One, he's my platoon. We knew each other pretty well from being overseas together. And so he ended up being my pilot and we went up to, you do a regular workup, but you're diving every day. I mean, you're underwater six hours a day in, uh, in Pearl.

• 4:29:32Speaker 06

  I mean, underwater all the time.

• 4:29:37Speaker 06

  And then you're using different rigs, you know, you're using Dragers, you're using Mark 16s, um, and trying to learn how to fly the boat. I mean, back then I think they have much better stuff now, but back then it's like fly by wire, dude. You know, you, you got a, you got a stick and you got a potentiometer and you're filling up tanks inside for buoyancy. And you're just kind of bobbling through the water. And it's like, I remember when we got there, I was like, this is it? Like, dude, you're gonna send us, like, we're screwed, man. This thing is not, it's like, I mean, it, but then you, you, like anything else, you know, you get good at it. And, but I remember I always tell the story.

• 4:30:20Speaker 07

  We were in Keyport, we do cold water training and you know, water's 42 degrees up in Seattle. And Jeff and I were doing about an eight to 10 hour dive, 42 degree water. And you're wearing Crush Neoprene wet suits. And you know, you can try everything, like diapers, you're eight hours, dude. You know, you guys are trying diapers, you got pee tubes with catheters. You know, you're wearing, you try everything you can to stay warm. They keep you alive, but they don't keep you comfortable. It's like, you know, like right at that edge of like, what the fuck is this? This is where you sit for 12 hours.

• 4:31:00Speaker 07

  There's no food, you can try some water with like a Camel back and try to, you know, suck it under your face mask. You got a full face mask and you got Boat Air, you got all these rigs. You know, I call it the death rig, Mark 16, it's always flashing, like balancing out PPO2 oxygen. You're like, I'm gonna die at any second now, like this thing is just not made for success. Jeff and I, we two guys normally would fit, it can fit four guys in the back. And you pack them in, I mean, you pack them in, like, I remember being on top of Matt Leather's and it's snowing out. And I'm on my knees on his dragger and I'm trying to push him in and shut the back door. And Matt like undoes, he like cracks his valve, his lips are purple and they're huge.

• 4:31:44Speaker 07

  He's just so fucked up, sir. I'm like, I know dude, get in there, pops it back in and you know, shut the thing. And then six hours later, you know, you open it up and you're just like, how you doing? What have you been doing down there? And they're just, you know, they got their emergency regulator and they're just packed in like sardines. And the level of misery is, the level of misery is just next, it's, it's just on another, it's so hard to describe. But this one night, Jeff and I, and the boat breaks, I'm in the boat breaks all the time. There's just something wrong with the boat all the time. The navigation systems are like Windows 95, you know, they're like, decide to just reboot. You have like three Windows computers and you're flying on a battery operated thing in saltwater. Like, you think this is gonna work well?

• 4:32:29Speaker 07

  This thing's not gonna work well at all.

• 4:32:32Speaker 06

  And so we're up in Keyport training and uh we do like a bottom up on the aircraft carrier. So you drive into the aircraft carrier and you can see the screws on your on your obstacle avoidance sonar and you get underneath the aircraft carrier and you blow um put some water in the boat and they pin it and the guys go out and they go swimming. The aircraft carrier, it's not like there's the edge, like it's it's huge. You know, when you're under there, you're not getting out from underneath there and you just sit while the combat swimmers go do their whatever they're doing, taking pictures, you know, putting on a limpet line or something and you just sit there and you have your full face mask on, you're just breathing and you have what's called a brick and you can you can talk

• 4:33:14Speaker 06

  to your pilot and talk back and forth and you're just breathing. And our boat just started like all of a sudden valves started blowing like over pressure like dirt, it you know, it's hand tighten, you know, like so valves break, you know, all of a sudden air starts leaking in, the pressure relief valve, the boats just start erupting, all the gauges go everywhere, you know, Tebow and I are like the boat, our STBs bounce along the bottom, it pops out and there's a dive suit boat and I'm like laying on top of the STB trying to get it back underwater like, don't worry, don't worry, sneaky guys here, no one's gonna see us. Push the boat underwater and I'm like, alright, this thing's screwed, we gotta

• 4:33:58Speaker 06

  get out of here and it's about an hour and a half back up to where we were and you gotta go through, you know, ferry channels where you gotta do excursions down to 50 feet so you don't get hit by a ferry doing 18 knots and get cut in half. And Jeff and I've been in the water about eight hours and at this point, you're at like that breaking point of like, I can't even, I can't even fucking believe, I don't know why I'm doing this. And in your mind, you have gone to every dark place and you're finding dark places to go. You're just like, what, why did, what am I doing with my life? Like, why, why am I existence? What is this existence? Why are we here on earth? Like, you are just like, your mind's going and I hit the next leg and it's like, and the number pops up

• 4:34:43Speaker 06

  on the screen like how far you have to go to the next leg of the dive and it's like 12,000 yards. And and I hear Jeff and I hear this

• 4:34:54Speaker 06

  and I'm like, make a look over.

• 4:34:58Speaker 06

  And there's a, there's a screen. So there's some light shining in his mask. And then I hear Jeff again. He's like,

• 4:35:05Speaker 06

  and I was like, dude, are you crying? And he's like, fuck yeah. He's like, I'm glad, but there's nowhere to go.

• 4:35:13Speaker 06

  I'm like, I'm like, it's okay. We're gonna be fine. We only got like another two and a half hours.

• 4:35:21Speaker 06

  And about, and then there's silence in the boat and you just hear the humming of the motor. And all of a sudden I'm like,

• 4:35:29Speaker 06

  Jeff's like, it's okay, buddy.

• 4:35:32Speaker 06

  And then the potentiometer breaks and the boat's at full blast. He's like, how far do I go? I'm like, just go as far as you can.

• 4:35:38Speaker 06

  Crash the boat, come to the surface. Like it's over.

• 4:35:43Speaker 06

  You know, I mean, it's like night after night of this just clown show. But you know, you, you gotta figure it out.

• 4:35:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:35:51Speaker 06

  And guess what? You know, you're not, you're not having this night. The next night you're on dive soup and, and you're sitting in the cold rain and you're watching the buoy and you're watching them figure it out. You know, and you're watching the shit. You know what the shit show is sound there that these guys are doing. And, and but what ends up happening is over time. Like pilots are this magical existence. Like when you find a good pilot is a unicorn. It's like, you know how to do this? Nobody else can do this. And we had, uh, we had a couple of amazing pilots. And yeah, I had some of the, one of the guys from the platoon who became my, my best friend at platoon, Matt Leathers. And Matt

• 4:36:33Speaker 06

  was like, he was an Alpha Platoon of, from STV one with, uh, Mike Murphy and, and the guys from Red Wings. But he, when they split up the platoon, he went to Iraq, they went to Afghanistan. So his whole platoon dies. And then he comes back and that was, he, Quetz, I think he was the most talented human being I've ever come across in my entire life. First time I met Matt, we get to Pearl and we're doing a bottom up and he's not even a pilot at the time, he's like, "And I'd never done a bottom up." He's like, "Hop it, I'll pilot, I'll go with you." And I don't even know who he is, but I know that my chief doesn't like him. He's like, "We're getting rid of him, he's a pain in the ass, he doesn't listen." And he just, you know, he's on his own program. So I'm like, "Mm, whatever."

• 4:37:15Speaker 06

  Matt and I do this dive and we have this, like, bottom up and you can't see anything, the tide's going out, the ship's coming down. And Matt is, he's a magical pilot. And we get done with this op and I'm just like, "Dude, that was amazing." Like, and I'm like, "Yeah, we're keeping him." And he could do anything. He was an artist for Disney when he was a kid. Like, he could draw, he would draw our platoon. So I would, I'm like, "Matt, you know, something funny would happen." And I'd be like, "Draw a cartoon." And so you'd walk in, somebody would fuck up and they'd walk in there, there'd be this, like, beautiful cartoon of, you know, somebody showing their ass. And we kept this running tally of this. And anything Matt touched, he could pull off.

• 4:37:59Speaker 06

  And one day he asked me, he goes, "Hey, can I have Friday off? I want to go play this golf tournament up on the North Shore." And I'm like, "What? I don't know, you play golf?" He's like, "Yeah, yeah, it's a qualifier for the US Open." I was like, "Okay." Like, now I'm just morbidly curious. Like, I didn't know. Okay. He comes in on Monday and I'm like, "How'd you do?" He's like, "I won." I'm like, "What?" He's like, "Well, I didn't have a driver, so I had to use the driver out of the guy's bag that I was playing with." He's like, "But he didn't mind." I'm like, "Wait." He's like, "But I got, I didn't win because I didn't have a handicap and that guy had a five handicap, but I won, like, shot-wise." And I'm just like, "Dude, you, this is unbelievable." And he decides he wants to learn how to play guitar.

• 4:38:43Speaker 06

  And I'm like, "Yeah, good luck, I've been doing this 20 years." Like, he's playing as good as me. Like, "Holy shit." You know, and, you know that?

• 4:38:55Speaker 06

  We ended up, you know, we were out there for about a year and Heather and I, you know, the SDV portion was, that operational part I really enjoyed because it was, it was different from the regular teams because you're all in that together. There's no good job. There's no like, there's no cush, like every job sucks in SDV platoon and everybody is sucking. So you're, it was, it was a very much like, there's only about 50 team guys out there, I think, at that command, but it's, it's a huge command. And when we first got out there, Heather's pregnant and she's like, I gotta find a place to live. And so Mick Waters, my sponsor, she had taken

• 4:39:38Speaker 06

  orders out there and she was out there. So we were staying with them and we're looking all over the island, like I can't find a place to live. And Heather's getting pregnant and getting upset. She's like, I'm going home. Fuck the Navy, fuck you. Like, we can't find a place to live. The BAH is high, but there was, you know, it's like you walk in, there's just mold. You know, you couldn't find a place. And Commander Sass, who was my CO at the time, he's like, there's a place on Fort Island, you know, check it out. And there's all these historic homes on Fort Island that were actually in the movie In Harm's Way. John Wayne's houses, from that movie, you can actually live in it as a, it's officer housing. So I got there and there's this, there's one duplex open. And so I go over to base housing and I walk in and mind you, it's like commander, commander,

• 4:40:23Speaker 06

  captain, captain, captain. And so I go into base housing and there's this Samoan woman, just stone faced. And I was like, hi, I'm a JG, like my wife's pregnant next to me. And I'm like, is there any way we could look at 4806 Yorktown Boulevard? And she goes, no. She's like laughs at me. And I'm like, she goes, pulls at her desk and she goes, this is the waiting list of 4806. And it's just like a list of names and they're all 04s, 05s. And she's like, you would be number like 42 on the list. And I'm like, and I'm in my khakis, you know, I'm just like, I'm like, please, can you help me? No.

• 4:41:06Speaker 06

  So we go back, Heather and I are fighting. She's like, screw this. I'm done. I'm gonna go back to call her. You call me when you're done with this Navy thing and we'll, we'll, we'll do this. So I go to the Navy Exchange and I buy flowers and I go back to the, the housing and I walk in, I'm like, put her on her desk. I'm like, please, my wife is gonna leave me. She's pregnant. This woman's like, no. I'm like, fuck. So I get in the car, I'm driving away. All of a sudden, my phone rings and I answer it. I'm like, hello? And it's the same woman and she's like giddy. She's like, is this the cute lieutenant that was just here? And I'm like, uh, yeah. She's like,

• 4:41:47Speaker 06

  I have a house for you at 4806. And I was just like, sweet. So she scores me this house and Heather and I move in. And, you know, we're doing the workup, diving, like just learning this new tool, which every day was just unbelievably, it was just like comedy every day, but really rewarding. And I love the team guys out there. I love that unit. And it comes around, we're getting towards Christmas and she's getting ready to pop and she's not worried about it. She's like, we're good. Like, she's an athlete, division one athlete. She's like, just pop this thing out,

• 4:42:27Speaker 06

  we're gonna move on. And her due date comes and goes and she starts going to labor. And I'm like, okay, like we're 10 days late. Like, this is good. Like, let's get this thing, let's get it on. Labor starts kicking up, like three hours, contractions like every three minutes. She's like puke and bile. And I'm like, take her to the hospital. And they're like, she's not, she's not ready yet. She's not dilated enough. I'm like, listen, I've known this woman my whole life and she's tougher than me and this is not right. And the woman looks at me, she goes, it's called labor for a reason. It's supposed to be hard.

• 4:43:05Speaker 06

  Take her home. We go back two more times. Finally get her into the hospital. They break her water. She starts into labor. And I'm like, some, something's not right here. And the, one of the midwives comes in, the nurse midwife, and she's like, alright, start pushing. And Heather's pushing, nothing, nothing. So we're at, now we're at like 50 hours of labor. And now we're into five and a half hours of pushing. And she's, my mother-in-law had flown out to be there, and she's a nurse. And I'm like, watching, like, my wife's badass, but I, I've never seen this amount of like, effort and pain. And now you see the whole nursing staff just start to get like nervous, like they start freaking out.

• 4:43:51Speaker 06

  All of a sudden, well, this one doctor walks in and he goes, well, you're kind of too far along for this option, that option, uh, can't use the, I don't like to do forceps and, you know, she,

• 4:44:04Speaker 06

  and I'm, I'm like, wait. And they basically said, well, what do you want to do? And I'm like,

• 4:44:09Speaker 06

  find me somebody who can answer that question. Like, I'm not the guy you ask in this situation. I want to ask you and I want you to have an answer. You don't ask me. So he leaves and this woman comes running in. She's got her keys in her hand, her Starbucks. She's like, I can flip that baby. And I was like, you're hired. And 54 hours later, 54 hours of labor, six hours of pushing. They break out their forceps and they're yanking my wife off the table and her, her,

• 4:44:38Speaker 06

  her vitals are plummeting. I'm like,

• 4:44:42Speaker 06

  and flashing through my head, I'm like, I'm gonna be like my dad. She's gonna die and I'm gonna have this baby. And I'm watching my wife and my mother-in-law. People start coming into the room and this pediatrician walks in. He's like, everybody stop. Who paged me? Baby's not born yet. I want to know who paged me, my mother-in-law. And I was like, get out. You're either here to help her get out. My mother-in-law like owns the room. She's like, you and you, you need to leave. You stay, you stay.

• 4:45:14Speaker 06

  They ripped the baby out of my wife. And I stay with Heather. And I was like, I've never seen, I just come from Baghdad and all that shit. And I was like,

• 4:45:27Speaker 06

  I've never seen anything like that. And I've never seen a woman do that. My mother-in-law scooped up the baby and owned, she was, she worked in Shriners Hospital for 30 years. She was fucking amazing. My, my, and I, I just sat there with my wife. I'm just like, "Well, that was easy." "Holy fuck, 54 hours of labor and Lena was born." It, I've never seen anything like that, but I have to give my wife props on the next level, like, tough as nails. And then, oh, by the way, "Hey, we got a deployment. So, yeah, I know we got a three-month-old, but I'm gonna leave."

• 4:46:11Speaker 06

  And during that time, I'd screened for the command. And I was like, "Yeah, I got this boat job, and they're offering it for platoon commander. I'll take the book. I'll see if I can get it. Uh, that'd be kinda cool. I like mobility. You know, I'm seeing a mobility kind of theme in my career." And now I'm checking the box on all the, the, uh, groups. I got group one, I got group three, I got group four. So, major command for me is, I got a lot of options. If you stay a regular SEAL team as an officer, you're only gonna command, you know, a regular team. But if you have SDVs, and you can command an SDB group, or you command, if you have boats, you can command boats, you have JSI command. And so-

• 4:46:53Shawn Ryan?

  The command is developed for those that don't know.

• 4:46:57Speaker 06

  Yeah. So, major command. And I was like, "Wow, that's a cool opportunity, and that'd be good for my career." So, I screened. And then we deploy. And, uh, that's the one thing I won't talk about. We did an NSV mission. And it was the, I will say, the highlight of my NSW career, hands down. Coolest thing I've ever done. Was sit in the slipstream of nuclear submarine in a place you're not supposed to be, and pull a monkey fist and fly away. And knowing that you're the only people in the world, in that moment, doing that job. That was the highlight. Coolest fucking thing ever.

• 4:47:42Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, man.

• 4:47:44Shawn Ryan?

  So this is after you screened?

• 4:47:46Speaker 06

  Yeah. So we go on deployment after a screen and we go blackout on deployment. No emails, nothing, no communication.

• 4:47:56Speaker 06

  We surfaced the boat and you know antennas go up four months later. Surface the boat and the download of emails pops in.

• 4:48:05Speaker 06

  Like sorting through emails like I'm like, oh shit, I got picked up. Well, that's cool. Like, oh, orders came in. Oh, my wife has already moved. Oh, I started Green Team in five days.

• 4:48:18Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 4:48:21Speaker 06

  I'm looking, there's tickets for me as I'm so I run down, I pack all my shit. The guys that helped me pack up my stuff, I they put me in the van. They drive me to Tumon. They they fill me full of alcohol. They drive me to the airport and I hugged my platoon goodbye. It was the last time I saw Matt. Hug Matt goodbye and hop on a plane. Four days later, flew to Hawaii, I checked out. I flew to flew to Cleveland, my wife picked me up. She's like, what the fuck?

• 4:48:57Speaker 06

  I just had to pack up our house for the newborn, our dog. I just drove across the country with my mother, with my mom. I got us, I'm staying at the house. I found us a place in Virginia and you're going to start this new command. I was like, well, it's a it's a it's a training command. We're going to take a break. I'm just there to test boats. And she's like, whatever. So again, we get pregnant with Walker. And in that timeframe, it's it, you know, if you look at Navy officers, the kids are all two years apart because when you come back from deployments, usually you got a window about five days and your wife still likes you.

• 4:49:40Speaker 06

  So I start Green Team.

• 4:49:45Speaker 06

  Welcome to the command. Five days after being on a sub for four months and we kick off Green Team 2008. Heather didn't know what it was and I didn't tell her because at the time, nobody, I didn't even know it existed. When I checked into the command and they give you the brief and they're like SEAL Team Six, I'm like, this is a joke? I was like, it's real? That's interesting. Yeah, then nine months of, nine months of Green Team, which was gray-green. So I'm doing the boat side. But we, the air portion is everybody's lumped

• 4:50:27Speaker 06

  together. And that's where it almost came to a screeching halt. Jonas Kalsah, who was the troop commander on extortion, he was in the class with me, myself, Nick Check, a handful of guys from the class. We all decided to float the Salt River on a weekend during Green Team. And Jonas and I were the two officers and beforehand, we're like, all right, we signed designated drivers. And we signed designated drivers. Everybody gets in their tubes, a bunch of alcohol, middle of Green Team. You're kind of through that portion where you know you're gonna make it. And everyone's ready to like, just take a wrap

• 4:51:07Speaker 06

  off. And we're floating the river. We get to the pull point and Jonas and I are well tidied up. And so are our designated drivers. Looking around, we're just like, dude, you know, you're drunk trying to tell a guy, like, what were you doing? We're like, all right. So we pack everybody up and a couple, most of the leadership, a couple chiefs, myself, Jonas, our medic, Tori, and Nick. And we're hanging out. And there's no cellphone coverage. We're just like, all right, how are we gonna get home? We can't, there's no Ubers. This is like 2008.

• 4:51:50Speaker 06

  And Nick's like, dude, I didn't drink. Like, I'm fine. I'm like, no, we're not doing that. He's like, trust me, I can just, we got a pickup truck, we can pile everybody in, we'll go to stay out of the hotel, it'll be fine. I'm just like, Jonas and I are looking at each other, we're just like, Nick's a junior man. I'm like, no, we're not doing this, this is a bad decision. And he's like, I'm fine, Pete. Like, alright, fuck it, we're gonna sleep out here. Hop in the car. Like, not, like, we literally pull out of the parking lot and it's like, boo, they pull us over. And of course, they scream, they smell alcohol in the car, because there was plenty of alcohol in the car. And they give Nick a test, and he passes the field sobriety test, and then

• 4:52:34Speaker 06

  he blows, and he blows the legal limit at .08. And they arrest him. And I'm just like, fuck. So we get guys, we go to the hotel, we grab guys, and we go to the DUI checkpoint. We start making calls back to the command, um, back to the Green Team cadre, and we're just like, hey, this happened. Jonas and I are just like, fuck. Well, that's it. You know what I mean? Like, I went in to see the head of Green Team, he starts tearing into me, and I was like, hey, I got it. I take full responsibility. Like, he's a good kid, he was trying to do the right

• 4:53:12Speaker 06

  thing. Like, it's me. Like, I'm an officer. Like, keep him. But don't, he was trying to do the right thing, and we put him in a bad position. Dismissed. We finished, we finished that portion of Green Team, and I'm back, and everybody's just kind of like waiting for the shoe to drop, like, what's going on? All of a sudden, the Green Team cadre's like, hey, get your caddies on, head up to the CO's office. And I was like, fuck, here we go. I get my caddies on, I get up there. Jonas is there, his caddies, one of the other officers, Bloom's there, our chief, Bloom Quakes is there. And, uh, we march in, and it's commanding officer, every squadron commander, and every squadron command master chief.

• 4:53:57Speaker 06

  And the ass chewing starts. What the fuck were you guys thinking? Just, I mean, like, I've never been, they were inventing words to call us. I mean, but to a certain point, I was like, Jesus, like, this is the, hands down, the worst ass chewing I've ever gotten. We go to Jonas, they go, what do you have to say for yourself? And Jonas is like, at this point in our careers, I should be able to trust my men. And he said he was good and,

• 4:54:23Speaker 06

  you know, and he was right. What he said, what Jonas said was right.

• 4:54:29Speaker 06

  And they just tore into him. And I'm like, Mr. Scobell, what do you have to say for yourself? And I was just like, I take full responsibility for petty officer checks actions. Like, he's a good kid.

• 4:54:40Speaker 06

  You can delegate authority, you can't delegate responsibility. Like, I, I'll take, take one. Just keep him, though, he's a good kid. And, uh, there's silence in the room. Like, Bloom, what do you have to say? He's like, what he said.

• 4:54:57Speaker 06

  More of an ass chewing. They're like, all right, get out of here. And, uh, I thought that was a great time to throw out a classic line from Top Gun. I was like, hey, Jonas, you got that number at truck driving school? We might need that. And the whole room erupts in laughter. And we get outside and, uh, the head of green team comes out and he's got these non punitive letters of reprimand. And he hands them to Jonas and I. And he's like, get the fuck out of here. Like,

• 4:55:29Speaker 06

  pull your shit together. And Jonas, and we go back to training and we both make it through. And, uh,

• 4:55:37Speaker 06

  it's, it was, that became kind of an interesting interaction. They kept, you know, Nick and, um,

• 4:55:48Speaker 06

  When I left, my last day at the command, I was, we had moved to, last day at the command, I was leaving, and I see Nick on the quarter deck, and he's like, "Hey, man, where you going?" I was like, "I'm leaving."

• 4:56:03Speaker 06

  It was after post-TBI stuff, "I'm leaving, I'm getting, I'm gonna go into the west coast." He's like, "Dude." He's like, "Hey." Gives me a hug, goes, "I never got to thank you." He was like, "That, what you did, like, I love my job, I love coming to work every day, like, I really, thank you." I was like, "Yeah, man."

• 4:56:25Speaker 06

  "You're a great dude." And that was the last thing he said to me.

• 4:56:31Speaker 06

  And I always, you know, I always keep that, like, letter of reprimand as kind of a, as a thing.

• 4:56:38Speaker 06

  After Nick had died, I went to one Navy, two Navy SEAL Foundation events. One of them, his, this is probably five years ago, his girlfriend at the time walks up to me, that, you know, he was dating at the time, Stephanie, and she goes, "Are you Pete Scobell?" And I said, "Yeah." And she goes, "Nick left a list of people to thank, and you were on it. And I wanted to find Nick's mother, ask me to, if I, you were one of the guys that I wanted to, needed to tell that to." And I was like, "What?" Wow. You know,

• 4:57:19Speaker 06

  that was like, one of those, like,

• 4:57:22Speaker 06

  and I still, I still talk to Stephanie, keep in touch with her, and she,

• 4:57:30Speaker 06

  still I get chills when I think about that, you know, like, Nick was the number one man on the hostage rescue op that, Ed Byers won Medal of Honor, was awarded the Medal of Honor for, and he got shot coming through the door, and, uh,

• 4:57:48Speaker 06

  I still, like...

• 4:57:52Speaker 06

  I'm glad he stopped me on the quarter deck though and said, "Thank you."

• 4:57:58Speaker 06

  But I had no idea that he had written, told his mother about it. And she thought to come make sure I was aware of it. So, to Nick's mother and Stephanie, "Thank you." That was a gift from, that was a gift, truly a gift.

• 4:58:24Speaker 06

  Anyways.

• 4:58:25Shawn Ryan?

  Let's take a break, Pete.

• 4:58:26Speaker 06

  What's that?

• 4:58:27Shawn Ryan?

  Let's take a break.

• 4:58:42Shawn Ryan?

  Alright Pete, back from the break. We're getting into your career over at Dev Group.

• 4:58:48Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 4:58:49Shawn Ryan?

  And so you went to Gray Squadron.

• 4:58:51Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 4:58:52Shawn Ryan?

  And I've never had a Gray Squadron guy on before. So can you, can you describe to the audience what Gray Squadron is?

• 4:58:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, so Gray Squadron's a mobility component at the Command. If it's got wheels or it floats, they drive it. And so each squadron has a component of Gray Squadron that's attached to it. And supports all the underway, hostage rescue, ship takedowns, ground mobility elements, Panders, what we used to have. I don't know if they have them anymore, that were using up armored six-wheel vehicles. So if it has wheels and it moves and we get guys from point A to point B, that's what Gray is.

• 4:59:35Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 4:59:37Speaker 06

  It's the pain, it's the pain train.

• 4:59:39Shawn Ryan?

  So is Gray attached to a specific squadron?

• 4:59:43Speaker 06

  There's a, each squadron has a Gray troop attached to it. And so you're usually the fourth troop attached to each squadron. Yep.

• 4:59:55Shawn Ryan?

  Who were you attached to?

• 4:59:56Speaker 06

  Uh, the first, at the beginning, I was attached to Red and then I stood up Gray Blue.

• 5:00:01Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 5:00:02Speaker 06

  And so I was attached to Red when I first, we first finished, we were... They had pulled all the SEALs out of gray and put them in the assault squadrons when Afghanistan kicked off. And then they gave the boats back to the SWCC guys. And then they started bringing SEAL officers back in to expand grays. Gray went down to Lake Port and Starboard for a while because of the combat rotations. And then they were bringing SEALs back into gray. And that's how the job opportunity opened up for me to come over there and do my platoon commander in gray. And so I thought, well, hell, I'll just go over there early and then I can, you know, do my time there. So, yeah.

• 5:00:48Speaker 06

  The gray portion of things is, you know, underways, ship takedowns, like we have our, NSW has a whole group that does all of our boats, any kind of drop off, any kind of, you know, insertion and extraction. The gray portion is, you know, we do a airdrop. So we'll drop the entire package and do a four boat drop with all the assaulters and take down a ship. So that's kind of like why the command exists really is to do, to have that response element for the ground, whereas Delta exists for, originally existed for hostage

• 5:01:33Speaker 06

  rescue of airliner. So the core mission set was ship takedowns. So the gray, their gray piece was stood up in order to facilitate that for a helo assault force, boat assault force, or just a boat assault force. So we trained to do, and you know, seeing on the internet, the boat drops. So you're doing, you know, these boats are 25,000 pounds, you're dropping from 8,000 feet, you know, at night on knots.

• 5:02:00Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 5:02:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's a pretty, it's one of the cooler things you'll ever experience is watching a boat get ripped out of a C-17 at 140 knots. It's super intense.

• 5:02:12Shawn Ryan?

  How did you feel being over there?

• 5:02:14Speaker 06

  Uh, being an officer over there, it's like Officer Hell Week, every day. There's always something spinning. You're always planning for something.

• 5:02:24Speaker 06

  But it's a weird, it's a weird command. As officers, you're not really welcome over there. It's an enlisted man's command. You know, you're kind of looked upon as like a short timer. You know, you're in, you might do a rotation, you go away and you come back. It's a lot of times, guys don't spend, you know, you'll get a enlisted operator that'll spend, you know, 20 years over there. Whereas, as an O, you might spend a decade or so, maybe 15 years, but you're in and out. You're not there for the long term. It's a different relationship between officer enlisted over there. I always thought. Interesting. Interesting. What were some of the highlights of your career over there?

• 5:03:06Speaker 06

  So you mentioned the Captain Phillips mission. I had just gotten to the command and we'd finished up Green Team and Walker was born. Fortunately, quick birth. He came out like a grease pig, we joked around. And he was like, and The second one usually does, right? Yeah, exactly. Lena paved the way. Walker was born and he was about two months old and I was heading into work and I remember just leaving my wife. And the night before, we knew that Alabama had been taken, but we were like, what do we, what do you want us to do? They had left in the dinghy. It was kind of like, eh. So we spun up and then

• 5:03:47Speaker 06

  it just kind of percolated. And so we were kind of watching it, like, starting to, starting to move in the planning station and then we just hit a pause because it was like, we can't do anything with the dinghy. Went home. I woke up the next morning and I was like, hey, I'll grab some chicken. And I hopped in the car, headed into work and I got there and it was just like mass chaos. Like dudes running everywhere and they're like, get upstairs. So I threw my canvies on and ran upstairs and I walked in and it was like, there's a joint staff on the BTC. And they're like, Where's my gray? I walked in like, where's my gray? I was like, here? I just got to this command, like, I didn't know anybody, really. I mean, I'd finished a green team and it's like four months after that, April. Damn, right off the bat, huh? Yeah, so you're, it's like, you know, I get over there and I'm like, what's going on?

• 5:04:32Speaker 06

  And we had two of our liaison officers, who were two, just rock stars. And they start feeding me intel, like, pieces of paper, like, hey, basically, he's in the dinghy, we got a shouldering ship, the Bainbridge is here, they're moving the boxer. And I'm like, okay, okay, okay. We have the package ready to go. Packages stand by of four boats that are rigged for drop. And you can be launched with a four-hour window anywhere in the world with the C-17s. And I'm just like, okay, so. And at the time, the CO was like, all right, tell them what the package is. I give the joint staff with the packages. And we're just kind of holed up and we're doing the calculations.

• 5:05:14Speaker 06

  And they're like, hey, we got to make a decision, otherwise we're going to do a night drop. And they're trying to figure out like all the scenarios, right? Like, you know, okay, it's a dinghy, but he's getting close to shore. Are we going to go over the beach? And is he going to be taken ashore? And then we're going to do a full OTB hostage rescue mission? Like, we were trying to figure out all of the contingencies at one time. And normally, you have to pick. It's like, hey, if we're doing a ship takedown, you have this gear. If you're doing an OTB takedown, you're going to do this gear. And there are different loadouts that go on the plane. And our CO at the time was like, we're taking it all. We're like, okay, like, fucking A, we're taking it all. And we're taking the whole squadron. And we're taking all of our support personnel.

• 5:05:58Speaker 06

  And so, you know, you normally have just. Holy shit, you guys are taking all of that? Yeah, they didn't know, you know, like, you're going to get over there and like, it's better to have and not need than to need and not have. To the point where we started spinning up a third, we spun up a third C-17. And, you know, everybody's like, we thought what was gonna happen is we're gonna spin up. This is what always happens. You spin up and it gets to a certain point and then they don't push the go button and then you spin back down and that's a constant. That's why it's a constant cycle. It's like a constant planning cycle at that place. And that's why it's an, oh, you're like walking in like, all right, we're gonna do this. Go figure this part out and you go back to your office and you start figuring out. You walk upstairs, you're like, all right, I got it. And they're like, scratch that.

• 5:06:40Speaker 06

  We're gonna do this. So it's like a constant, you know, churn for planning. And, you know, hey, listen, if we want to do a day drop, we have to leave. We have to push the button now and joint staff is like, all right, go. We're like, holy shit. This is Easter Sunday. This is the day before. The day before Easter. Right. We're a day before Easter. And so we just, you know, and when you watch the machine kick off, it's like semis with boats and everybody's got their go bags packed and everybody's pulling armory guns, the whole deal, buses, they're all numbered. Like this whole system is set into place and

• 5:07:24Speaker 06

  C-17s fly in, you know, my, and my, my job, you know, I wasn't in charge of the whole lot. I was in charge of getting everyone there. I was in charge of the boat drop. And, you know, we had, at that point, had never done a real full mission profile boat drop. It was like, it was always on the books. I think that jumped in once before, but it had never like gone all the way through with like a green light. I think, and so it was like, holy shit, this might, this might happen. But in the back of my head, I'm like, nah, we're just gonna fly over and land in Djibouti. This thing's gonna resolve itself and we're gonna be in Djibouti for like two weeks and then we're gonna fly home. Like that's what I, that's what everybody was in everyone's

• 5:08:06Speaker 06

  mind. And we were all like, it's fucking Easter, man. Like, like my wife already hates me. Now, now I'm about to leave, you know? And so we launch and we get in the air and it was, I think it was like the heaviest lift in C-17 history. I mean, I remember when the plane took off and it was like screaming, like dude, we're gonna crash into the trees at the end. It's gonna be the world's shortest mission. Like, congratulations, they're all dead.

• 5:08:32Speaker 06

  Anyways, we launch and we head east. And you know, through this whole like workup phase, everybody's just exhausted. You know, I mean, you're planning and it's like pulling gear. Everyone's like, how are we going? And getting guys in the right planes. And we take off and soon as we take off, you know, you got a long flight and everybody just passes out. And I get a, I fall asleep on one of my boats and I get shaking. Guy climbs up on my boat shaking. I mean, it's like tall, it's like taller than the ceiling where I'm at. And a guy climbs up on my boat, shakes my foot and dude's like, hey, come with me. And he was one of the liaison officers, but he's wearing army cammies. And there was another guy with long hair. And so he takes me up into the cockpit and he grabs the mission commander and he goes,

• 5:09:16Speaker 06

  "Tell him what you told me." And the guy goes, "I lost comms and I don't know where we're going. They just told me to fly east." We're like, "What? What do you mean? Like, we got like $10 million for the comms equipment here. Like, I can figure it out." He's like, "We're trying right now, but we don't know where we're going. The satellites were dedicated to..." You know, they start going through the details of why we lost comms and I'm just like, "Fucking..." And so my team leader at the time, he comes up and he's standing next to me and he's like brought up an Etrex GPS. And I'm like, the liaison officer, myself and the army liaison officer we're looking at, we're like, "And you remember the Etrex GPS? Is this just a fucking like..."

• 5:09:59Shawn Ryan?

  About as basic as it gets.

• 5:10:00Speaker 06

  Like an outline of Africa. You know, we're like, "Well, it was here. The boxer was here and it was going south at 18 knots." Like, so how many hours is that? We're doing time, speed and distance. And the Air Force guy go, "Hey, we got a grid coordinate. We're good." And we kind of, we kind of take back and fleet liaison officer being really smart, he copies it down real fast and he comes over to us and he goes, "Put it in the GPS." So we put the, we put it in. It's like dead center of Africa. And like, I gotta go brief my skipper who's downstairs and I'm just like, guys, like, I gotta go tell him something. And I don't want to tell him this thing. And so we pick, we go literally on a Etrex GPS. And we're like, "It's right about here. That's the drop zone."

• 5:10:45Speaker 06

  We're like, "Fly here." And the pilots are like, looked like, "Are you serious?" We're like, "Yeah, absolutely." And the army liaison officer is like, And he's like, do the calculations. He's like, well, it's still gonna be a night drop because we gotta refuel over Saudi Arabia. And he's like, no, there's a refueling route over the Red Sea. And the pilot goes, well, I'm not authorized to use that. And he's like, you're fucking authorized right now. And I looked at the army guy, I'm like, fuck yeah, I like this dude. And so literally did the calculations. It's like, we'll do a last light drop. And I'm like, okay, because we had guys that were people that were free fall qualified, but they weren't operators. You start doing a night drop with a bunch of guys that, you know,

• 5:11:28Speaker 06

  are qualified but not, you're gonna kill people. And I'm like, this is not good. And we all knew it. Like, this is not good. We're taking admin people in. And so, still at the same time, in the back of our heads are like, we're gonna get diverted and land in Djibouti. So we all go back to sleep. We wake up like hour and a half out. They're like, alright, you guys start prepping for drop. And we're like, we're really gonna fucking do this? Like, you know, we had the CEO, Command Master Chief, everybody's like, alright, start prepping. So my guys start prepping, we're pulling bags, we start loading up the boats. And there's scales underneath the boats. And the loadmaster that flew out with us is like, he comes and grabs me, and he's like, dude, we're like 10, or about 3,000 pounds per boat over the weight. And I was like, well, how much fudge do we have? He's like, none.

• 5:12:14Speaker 06

  There's no fudge in this one. Like, if those things go out, they're already 25,000 pounds. Like, those things go out, you're gonna lose the boats. And I'm like, well, that's not what I wanted to. So we climb up there, we're like, hey, we gotta start scraping some gear off here. Like, this is over the top. I remember at one point, one of my guys opens this Pelican case, this gigantic Pelican case, and inside of it is a fucking printer. Like this little HP printer. We're like, who brought the fucking printer? Like, what is this? I'm like, take out the cartridge, you can bring this. It was one of the admin guys. We just start ditching stuff. And it got to the point where like, we're right at the edge. And so guys are like, well, I'll jump in my personal gear.

• 5:12:54Speaker 06

  Which is like, we'll just rig it. And all these guys, I mean, this is the best, this is the best. Our guys jump like nobody jumps. They jump, you know, 30,000 free falls a year. Nobody jumps as much as that command does. And So we start rigging it and turns out one of the young comm guys who had just gone to like comm school and he did really well. So he gets assigned to naval special warfare development group, not knowing what it is. He's on the watch bill and he's not jump qual. And so we're like, well, just tandem him. And I'm like, this poor kid's like, hey, I didn't sign up for this program. And we're all kind of like, we're looking at him and we're all like looking at each other. We're like, well, we got to fuck with the dude.

• 5:13:38Speaker 06

  So of course, the guy that's tandem, tandeming, he's like, I walk over and I'm like, how you doing? You know, like they start putting the harness on him and they're just like, don't worry. This, this works, you know, 30, 40% of the time. This kid's just like, what? Like, we're doing this, man. And, um, and you know, one of the other part that was funny about this was, you know, we had all these, we had like 90 people on two planes, right? We're, we're flying everybody over there. And the shitters backed up. And so like the, the first part of the drop was like, you know, the first, first bags that go out of the plane are the, the shit that clogged up the, when we dropped the ramp. And, uh, we see the boxer and I,

• 5:14:20Speaker 06

  I was like, I, this is actually going to happen. And we start rigging for drop. And the first thing that went through my mind was like, dude, I forgot to take the trash out. Like my wife is going to be so, I turned to my team leader and I was like, fuck. And he's like, what? What did we forget? Like going through all the checklist. I'm like, I forgot to take the trash out. My wife's going to be pissed. He's like, dude, you need to focus. Like this is happening. And I'm like, all right. And I'm going, I'll be number one man out of the plane. I'm like, fuck it. You know, like if this thing in back of my mind, I'm like, if you don't see four boats, then I'm just not going to pull my chute and burn this thing in because I don't want to answer for this shit show. And, um, so we did, the first pass was the boats. And so what you do is you, the boats

• 5:15:04Speaker 06

  go and then the boat drivers go. And then, you know, you free fall in, you five second hop and pop and you start chasing your boat to the water. And when you get there, the boat's rigged up with the platform and the carry, the, the slide it out of the plane. And you cut that and you sink it, you sink all the chutes and you get in, you start your boats and then you motor in the direction of the wind. So the plane, planes can come around and drop the assaulters in.

• 5:15:32Speaker 06

  We get down there and it went perfect. It was like the, I'd never done, I'd done like one boat drop before that. I just got through training. My second boat drop, I'm like, and everybody prior to that, it's like, nah, man, these things never work. One boat, we burned boats in, we've like, everything that can go wrong will go wrong. And we get in the water and all four boats are there. I'm like, they're not going to start. You just drop these like super high speed, extremely expensive boats out of a plane at like 8,000 feet. Like they're not going to work and they work. And motor in the line and then the pass comes by and it's 80 dudes. And the light, it just fills up the sky with blue shoots. It was just like, holy shit, man.

• 5:16:17Speaker 06

  And the boxer had, the boxer was our, the shouldering ship that we were jumping into. And all Marines were out there lined up watching this, like the arrival of, of us. And, you know, guys are piling in the boats and it was like, holy shit. We actually, this worked, the boats, like everything happened. I called in to the jock and said, hey, you know, I was hotel at the time, my call sign, like called in the JSOC, like all, all present accounted for. Move into the boxer and apparently, you know, the whole jock center lit up. We're just cheering. We're like, I think most of the team guys are like, fuck it.

• 5:17:02Speaker 06

  I can't believe that actually worked. You know what I mean? Like a lot of moving parts in that. We got there and we have to, now we get into, if you're craning the boats on and we have another drop. We're, we're bringing more boats. We're bringing Zodiacs. We're bringing lawyers. Like they start moving heaven and earth. Immediately they send the snipers over to the Bainbridge. And we had another contingent that had jumped in, Jonas actually had jumped in with a handful of guys from Africa to the Bainbridge and our guys all linked up on the Bainbridge and started getting eyes on the dinghy.

• 5:17:40Speaker 06

  My portion of the story, from where I was, I was in the boxer. And at that point, we start planning for, how are we gonna assault a dinghy? What's the boxer? It's a flat top Navy ship. It's an amphibious ship. Okay. Uh, with helicopters. So it looks like an aircraft carrier, but it's a flat top. And so, we start planning for an assault. Like, like so, you know, a bunch of guys sitting around, like, how do we assault a dinghy? Like, what are we gonna do to, like, how is this gonna facilitate this? And the snipers are over on the Bainbridge, and a handful, handful of operators are over there. And I think that was the point, I think Richard Phillips talks about this, where he,

• 5:18:24Speaker 06

  all of a sudden, one of the boats from the Bainbridge shows up, and he looks up and he sees one of our guys, which is a stark contrast to what he had been seeing from the regular fleet guys. It's just like, here's a dude with this massive beard, like gigantic Neanderthal covered in tattoos, and he's like, "Hi, sir." And he was like, "Oh," like the calories here. And, you know, the...

• 5:18:51Speaker 06

  Those guys, I, I, I think what was, was amazing was that, was like, we were trying to figure out, like, "Okay, what do we do?" And at one point, the plan, um, had come down to us from, from up high, that we were gonna ram the dinghy. So we were gonna take two boats, I was gonna drive one, and we were gonna put snipers in the other, and I was gonna drive at the boat, the, the dinghy he was in, hit it and roll it, because they right themselves. So I would crash my boat into it, roll it. And the idea with doing that was, we would knock the, disarm the pirates, and knock them all over the place. We knew that Captain Phillips was taped to the pole in the middle. Like, he'll be okay, there's just gonna be, it's gonna be a shitshow in there.

• 5:19:34Speaker 06

  And then the second boat was gonna quickly roll up on it with snipers aboard, and take out the pirates. So that was like, our, that's what we're doing. Like... But meanwhile, the guys that were on scene, they had hooked up the boat and they started railing it in. And you know, you got to remember, like, we don't know what's going on outside. We don't, we don't know what the news is saying. We're just like, dude, it's fucking Easter and I want to get home. Right? Like, these guys are all like, you know, multiple combat rotations. Like, this is not a big problem for us, right? Like, this is, like, what the fuck are we here for? Was really the overarching, like, this is kind of crazy. Because it, you know, I, we

• 5:20:19Speaker 06

  thought when we dropped in, like, okay, it's gonna go to shore, and then he's gonna be held on shore. And then now we have, this is our bread and butter.

• 5:20:26Shawn Ryan?

  Man, that's crazy that you guys had that attitude. I mean, it wound up being such an iconic event, you know?

• 5:20:32Speaker 06

  I think at the time, it wasn't, nobody thought it was iconic, because, you know, they started reeling the guys in. And one of the pirates, that he had been stabbed on the, on the Maersk by the crew, and his wounds started to fester. And he was like the leader. And they were like, do you want medical care? And when he bowed out, he's like, yeah, I want medical care. And they brought him on board. Then it was his three, like, underlings that didn't have any idea. Like, they were just kind of like, what do we do now? Like, our leader is gone. And

• 5:20:59Shawn Ryan?

  So wait a minute, you, you did what? You brought him on the boat for, to give him medical care?

• 5:21:04Speaker 06

  Right. So they, what they initially said was, hey, you guys don't want to go to a shore here. You're in your, the enemy tribe.

• 5:21:11Shawn Ryan?

  How are you communicating with them?

• 5:21:12Speaker 06

  They would just go over and talk with them, face to face. They'd take the boat from the, um, uh, take a boat from the Bainbridge over. And say, hey, listen, you know, you don't want to go shore here. You're out of gas. We'll tow you south. And then you can go ashore there. But we're gonna help you out. We're your friends. And they were like, okay. So that's how they got the hookup. And then, you know, that guy was, the lead pirate was wounded. And he was, you know, I guess, he started to plummet, you know, this now, you were in like, we're day three or something. So he'd been out there for a while, and he had a knife wound. And so he was starting to like, hey, this is not good, getting infected,

• 5:21:52Speaker 06

  like, his nerve, you know, he's, he's plummeting. And so they were going out, taking medical care, talking, hey, how can we help you, you know, trying to liaise and, and make this like a peaceful, just quit. Just, just quit. Give us our guy back, and then you can go free, kind of scenario.

• 5:22:12Speaker 06

  So it really wasn't. I mean, we were stoked that we did the drop. And everybody was just like, fuck yeah, that was cool. Like, okay, now what do we do? And so sniper started reeling them in and they got them within like 25 yards. And when the head, when the lead pirate got off. Uh, now you have the three, his three underlings and one guy's head, one guy had his head out of the, uh, the opening, the front of the hatch. One guy kept sticking his head out of the side to see what was going on. The third guy was in the pilot house. And, you know, the snipers at the time were like, let's just end this. And the SEAL that was there was like, yeah, man. Do it. They, they took the shot.

• 5:22:57Speaker 06

  And it, you know, took out the pirates and then one of the SEALs jumped on the cable and like, like firemen's crawl down the cable, which I thought was the most, the most badass thing that happened during that. Was like, holy shit. Like he firemen's crawl, just like Bud's down the, down the, uh, Slide for life. He pulled the slide for life, slide down the cable, this big ass, you know, Navy tow cable covered in grease and got on board. And, you know, secured, secured Ken Phillips. Wait a minute, how many shots was it?

• 5:23:32Speaker 06

  Well, a lot more than three. I mean, when I, I, when we got the boat back, there was, uh, I want to say they,

• 5:23:42Speaker 06

  each guy got maybe three. And it wasn't like, it wasn't one. It wasn't one simultaneous shot? No. Three snipers? No, I mean simultaneous, but it was, I think a handful of rounds. Um, I mean, you got, you're on nods. They had. It was a night. Yeah. So you, you got your apteals, your lasers are on nods, snipers dialed in. Was not a, they made it out to be this like, like, you know, Obama was like, oh my God, like I was on the radio and that was three, two, one. And they made these miraculous shots. They were great shots. I mean, awesome shots. Um, and they, but I think at the time, the guys were just like, fuck, let's get this over with. That was my take on it.

• 5:24:28Speaker 06

  You know, I mean, guys were. It was Easter. It was like, it's fucking Easter and I'm here and I want to be at home.

• 5:24:37Speaker 06

  And so, you know, it was done and we're like, let's get the fuck out of Dodge. And then they started spinning like, hey, we got all these other ships out here. Let's start. You know, let's start planning and picking them off. And we were like.

• 5:24:51Speaker 06

  Oh, God. And that all got kanked and we ended up flying off the boxer and then, you know, the, the route home, we flew.

• 5:25:00Shawn Ryan?

  Were you on board when Phillips came back?

• 5:25:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:25:03Shawn Ryan?

  How did, how was he?

• 5:25:05Speaker 06

  Dude, he looked like, I was there when he, when we brought him off the helicopter and brought him in and he was deer in the headlights, man. He was just like. And when I saw him after that, he came out to, you know, kind of thank us and walk around and check out all the equipment. We had brought the dinghy up onto the deck of the boxer and.

• 5:25:28Speaker 06

  And he was just very, like, he was very thankful. He was like, I think he snapped out of it and was just like, holy shit, you guys, you guys did this for me. I think he sat it and he took pictures with everybody and he was just very gracious. Um, he was a really nice guy. But when he first got on board, I was like, that dude is, he is, you know, Stockholm syndrome. He was, he was a hurting man.

• 5:25:55Speaker 06

  It was, it was a, it was a pretty amazing feeling. Like when, when it all wrapped up, we were just like, wow. Like, everyone, I can't believe we just pulled that off. Like, like we are pretty cool and we're stuck on the boxer. And then, and so this is where it all went downhill, in my opinion. We're stuck on the boxer and we're watching CNN on the big screen and. Vice President Biden at the time gets up there and he goes, man, those, he's like, the guys from SEAL Team Six did a great job. And we were all like.

• 5:26:30Speaker 06

  Did he just say that?

• 5:26:34Speaker 06

  I, I know, really, it was like this moment in the room where we were like, dude, what the fuck? And, and in my mind, all of our opsec and everything from the teams, that was a moment that went out the window. It was like when the vice president just blurted it out, like, hey, the guys from SEAL Team Six did a great job. It was just like,

• 5:26:55Speaker 06

  in my mind, that was the downfall of our, you know, just everything came unraveled after that.

• 5:27:03Speaker 06

  You know, I wouldn't be here talking about it if that hadn't happened. You know what I mean? Yeah. It was like,

• 5:27:11Speaker 06

  it, yeah. So, and then we're still on the boxer and then there's a South Park episode that comes out of, you know, dude, like Sal McCartman shooting somebody off the fantail of a Navy destroyer. I'm just like, I was like, this really escalated. This went from, within like four days, you know, my wife thinks I work at a training command to Cartman? Like, all in one, one thing? And, you know, I, what was interesting was like, you know, we're getting home, we flew to Mumbai and then we flew to Qatar and we started standing up a new school, a new task force. And then I flew to Balad. And I spent another, I don't know, another month, gone.

• 5:27:57Speaker 06

  No shit. Yeah. And so that turned into, uh, me like working, uh, to help stand up a new task force for that area of the world. It was like, shit moves fast in that place, man. And hey, you're, you're, you're, you're, all the other officers were in the squadron. They're just like, dude, hey, you're a great guy, you go. And so I end up in Balad, wearing the same pair of pants for the next, you know, next month plus, uh, you know, doing.

• 5:28:29Speaker 06

  Task force shit. What are you doing over there? We were just standing up a new task force for the Horn of Africa and that's where a lot of the, you know, missions after that came from. It was like a division, like, okay, now the wars, the war was shifting gears at that point. It was like, hey, Afghanistan, Iraq is eh, and, you know, a lot of the Horn of Africa and Al Shabab and, uh, you know, IQ, uh, AQ, um, Yemen, um, Arabian Peninsula, AQAP, those guys were all standing up and it just, the shit got, it was like the war was shifting. They knew, like, we, we owned Iraq and Afghanistan, so now we were, they started to play out into Eastern Africa and Somalia. And so, you know,

• 5:29:13Speaker 06

  operations went there post, post that. Um, I came back from that and of course, my wife was like, "What else? What else are you here to tell me?" What's next? I was just like, um, "I gotta go back to Afghanistan. Uh, got another rotation coming up in, uh, about a year from then." So, and my job was to take these, the SWCC guys and teach them ground mobility and then take them over and we're gonna drive trucks, these Panders, in Afghanistan. And so, we, you know, we went and we stood up a full ground mobility component with SWCC guys and they were fucking awesome. Right on, man.

• 5:29:55Speaker 06

  They were fucking awesome, man. I was so proud. My team leaders, they just, they're unbelievable. But, you know, we start, we took, I took all the mobility stuff that, you know, we'd created and, you know, this is, this was new. It was like, "Let's fucking figure it out." And, uh, the SWCC guys were the perfect guys to do it. And so, we, we did that workup. But during that, we're still driving the boats. So, we have still to maintain our capabilities to drive the, drive the boats and, you know, you're doing 40 knots and 10 foot seas. You know, we'd done testing on those boats and that's where, you know, you do 40 knots and 10 foot seas, the G-forces are astronomical.

• 5:30:37Speaker 06

  69, 70 Gs per hit. And you're wearing your nods, you're wearing your helmets. And we came back from that and you know, we're doing regular workups and training. And one night I was out, normally we were short people, so I would throttle a boat. We had, we had three guys that drive it. It's like professional offshore racing boats. And we had a new guy and I was like, hey, let's get him, teach him some throttling. And I was working on talking to, we had a P3 over that night. So I was like, hey, I'll work on some C2 stuff. And hitting it, hitting the radio and he, we stuffed the boat, which is essentially like, he timed it wrong and the bow of the boat went through a wave. And so you go from 40 knots tip underwater and stopped in a matter of seconds.

• 5:31:21Speaker 06

  And I woke up in the back of the boat and I had sheared off my night vision goggles. I slammed my face on the bat, the board on the, on the transom that was there. And I'd been knocked out and I didn't know how long. And we were 26 miles out to sea. And I called all stop and they were like, you okay? And I was like, no. I mean, I was fucked up. And my team leader's like, well, you got two options. We can medevac you or we can finish our run. And I was like, fuck it, let's just keep going. And we're in big seas at night and I don't know how many more concussions I got.

• 5:32:02Speaker 06

  It was like, and that was a, that was one of the most, that was a really pivotal moment for me from a concussion standpoint. Because, and then the injury started, I, I had, I got three herniated discs in my neck that night and I had my, I don't know how long I was out. And then the cognitive deficit started in. Like, like I couldn't, I was driving to work without even knowing where I was going. I was vertigo, I was throwing up randomly. Like I'd be sitting in a brief and be like, excuse me, go out, puke, come back in. And I'm just like, holy fuck, this is, but what are you going to do for a concussion?

• 5:32:43Speaker 06

  You know, back then it was just like, just Charlie might keep going. And so we, we worked up and we redeployed Afghanistan and we took the ground mobility component. That's when I was in. Deployed to Jalalabad and Assistant Strike Force Commander. We had a troop out there, we had the helos and we had our pandas and the Rangers. And we had a few of the Omegas under our command and we were conducting ops in northeast Afghanistan. And it was like, hey, bringing these new mobility guys over and, you know, you know, the team guys, they want to fly. They want to ride. You want to get IED.

• 5:33:28Speaker 06

  We weren't friends of the, they were just like, dude, we want to go near you guys. And, you know, during that rotation, it was really, that was a, that was an interesting one because we started to win favor first with the Rangers. We had a Ranger platoon there. Our guys shuttled up to Mazari Sharif and left me down in Jalalabad with, you know, a troop that was spread out at the Omegas and then I had my pandas and my Rangers. And we just started, we're like, start hitting targets. And so we started going out and we went out, we had a lot of success.

• 5:34:11Speaker 06

  Rangers were fantastic. They were really great guys, man. It was like, well, we got this, I pitched it as we're brown on the ground. Like, where do you want to go? Where's the target? We'll drop you off, extract, set security. You know, I had Marfleers, I had automatic weapon systems, you know, basically joysticks, 50 cows, 40 Mike Mikes armored, like, let's, let's get after it. And we just started hitting a bunch of targets with the Rangers. And they were, those guys are awesome, man. Those guys were absolutely phenomenal. I've been blessed. Every unit I've worked with, and I've got to work with a lot of units and see a lot of different parts of NSW and a lot of different parts of the military,

• 5:34:56Speaker 06

  every one of them was awesome. And the Rangers are no, no, no, no, those guys were rock stars, man. I was working out with them every night. And they were good to go. They were young. That's the big difference I found. Like, you know, with the, with the SEAL, you got like a 35-year-old guy who's, you know, a lot of combat at that point. Like, our guys had a lot of combat experience at that point. I mean, like, a lot. And the Rangers were young kids who just wanted to get dirty. And they were willing, they were willing to sit in the back of a pander. They were willing to do the, the hard work. And, uh, so we got a lot of work during that, during that op, during

• 5:35:34Speaker 06

  that time. Um, one of the last ops I went on, um, actually not last op, but it was around Christmas, Christmas Eve, actually. We pulled all of our guys together at a, in, at Abad. And there was uh, reports of AQ fighters that had come across the border and were storing, um, all kinds of fertilizer, like thousand pounds, thousands of pounds of fertilizer, IED parts, uh, up in this, like, remote area north of Assatabad. And the road to get up there, no one in the Army would

• 5:36:15Speaker 06

  go on because at the time, they had, they were putting IEDs in the, in the wall, and it was along a river, and like, the Colorado River, not a small river. And they had blown a bunch of, uh, Army Humvees into the river. And so, beyond a certain point, it was like, we're not going up there. And the troop commander at the time came to me and was like, dude, do you think you, we can get the Panders up there? And I was like, yeah, we can do that. And so, we headed up, we pulled the whole troop of assaulters.

• 5:36:47Speaker 06

  They all met up in, uh, A Bad. And I took my guys and we drove up. And on that drive, I had my, sit in the back and I was, uh, sitting over the middle wheel. And I had my helmet off and it's a quick, we drive really fast, blacked out. And the, the, the idea being by time you hear us, we're past you. You know, faster you go, the better off you are and no lights, don't, don't acknowledge it. So we're hauling ass and it was really quiet at that point. It's Christmas, it's around, around Christmas and just, you know, December, everything slows down in Afghanistan. And fucking IED goes off underneath my seat, like my, my seat.

• 5:37:33Speaker 06

  And it blows me straight up and I fucking hit my head and I got knocked out. And we were like, what the fuck? And I just kind of, you know, everyone's like, and it's just me, uh, my comm guy. I don't have any assaulters in the cars. It's me, my comm guy and my, um, my weapons guy who's here and here. And then we had one of the drivers, um, and he's in his little driver's seat in a pander. It's like, it's a six wheeled up armored vehicle and the driver's got like this little, like he sticks his head out. And, and he's all bulletproof grass, glass around him, A to automatic weapon systems on top. And the thing went off underneath my seat and I mean, I was just like, what the fuck?

• 5:38:13Speaker 06

  And we're, we're still rolling and it turned out, it just blew that tire. So the tire that I'm sitting on was shredded. And, and I don't know if, if it was, I'm guessing it was an ID or it was an RPG. I don't know, but it hit that tire that I was sitting on and blew me straight up and knocked me out. We pull into A Bad and they're just like, what's going on? I'm like, fuck dude, just got ID'd. Um, my guys being the rock stars that they were, tire off, tire back on. They're spare with us, they're like, Everything's, everything's good to go. The tire shredded and the rims fucked, but we're still operational.

• 5:38:53Speaker 06

  Alright, we're going. Charlie, Mike, let's go. So we load up the assaulters and we head up into this fucking, it was like the worst, the worst area you could go into. No one had driven up there. The pander's already wide as they are and you have a straight cliff on one side, a straight cliff on the other side going up, one going down, one going up. And the river is raging. And I'm just like, and we're trying to navigate, you know, all of our panders into this area with the assaulters. We get to like, we found a little area to pull the, the, the vehicles in. We start turning them around for exfil and then we put up our marfleers

• 5:39:34Speaker 06

  to be, uh, basically we had these, these pneumatic poles that would extend up with marfleers so we could watch the assaulters and, and go in. And we had our, our, our WS systems, remote weapon systems that we could over, overwatch on. We had great success with those things. I could, it was like having a sniper because it would do windage and elevation instantly on the, with the joystick. He just basically like, we had engaged, um, we had engaged guys up on the ridge line when I, during an assault at a thousand yards and they had RPGs and they were sitting on the ridge line watching us. And my guys found them and I was like, yeah, go for it. Like single shot, knocking these guys off. Wow. I mean, these are, the RWO systems were fucking amazing.

• 5:40:17Speaker 06

  So we start doing overwatch and assaulters hit the target.

• 5:40:23Speaker 06

  Start, they call troops in contact and then the, the GFC just starts dropping bombs. And dude, he, he dropped like 20,000 pounds of ordnance on these fuckers and there were 18 guys up there, I think 18 or 19 guys and they killed them all. And so now we just dropped 20,000 pounds of ordnance. There's one way in, one way out. We just let everybody know that we're there. We've got planes flying overhead. Everybody asked over T-kettle back to the pandas and we're trying to get out of there as fast as we can. Get on the radio and our command element says, "You guys gotta stop at the FOB

• 5:41:08Speaker 06

  to do a battlespace handoff." I'm like, "What?" Like the little army outpost that's up there. You gotta go tell them what you did. And I was like, and the ground force commander, I look at each other like, "That's a fucking horrible idea. We need to get out of here as fast as we can because there's only one road." Like, "This is not, this is not a smart idea." They're like, "Non-negotiable battlespace handoff." So, we pull in and we got another flat tire. So, my guys, I can back at it, pull that tire off. Myself and the ground force commander run in. We wake up this guy, he's in his like, you know, his ranger panties and a t-shirt and he's like, "Why the fuck are you guys here?" We're like, "We have to do a battlespace handoff." He's like, "Okay, thanks." Like, "Get out of here." We're like, "Okay, well, they're, uh, they're all dead."

• 5:41:53Speaker 06

  It's just like, "This is bad. We need to leave." I mean, that was pretty much the extent of it. Like, pile back in the pandas and we head out. And come around a corner and about 25 fighters had set up an ambush on us. And the first, I was looking at this, I'm looking through the thing and I watched the first RPG fly by my driver head. I saw the, like, I was like, "Oh, fuck." And over the radio, they're like, "Contact right." And I turned my, I'm, I'm sitting across from the, the GFC, um, the other, the assault troop commander and I'm like, "Fuck!" And I turned

• 5:42:36Speaker 06

  to my combat, I'm like, "Call it in, dude." And he calls in troops in contact and our guys just went to fucking town. Like, this unbelievable maneuvering and RWS system fly over and I had a 40 mic mic on mine. And I've watched, I watched a dude pop up with an RPG and my-

• 5:43:01Speaker 06

  My gunner shot him in the chest with an RPG. I mean, started him in the chest with a forty mic grenade.

• 5:43:07Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 5:43:09Speaker 06

  Cause you know, everyone, you can hear the fifties going off in all the other vehicles and all the gunfire. I mean, it was just like, holy fuck. And I look at the RWS screen and I, and I'm like, and he's zooming in on this dude and I'm like, we got forty mic, Mike. And he hits the guy and it's just like white on the screen. And the dude just disappears.

• 5:43:32Speaker 06

  And we, we slowed down, cleared the area and I'm like, hey, do we want to set security? And we're like, fuck no, blow through. And so, we blow through, we pull into, um, we pull into Sodavad, we get out and the fucking pandas are just fucking peppered. Like,

• 5:43:50Speaker 06

  our guys get out and, you know, the assaulters, I remember that the, the troop chief just looks at me and he was just like, he just nodded. He's like, fuck yeah, man. Like, he was one of the guys who was like, fuck no, I'm never getting in the pander. Like, I'm not getting in with you guys, I'm Swick guys. He was like, your boys are fucking good, man. And I was, I was, I walked in and, and every single assaulter was like, dude,

• 5:44:16Speaker 06

  that, that,

• 5:44:18Speaker 06

  I hated those things beforehand. I'm a changed man. And I was so proud of my, my troop that night. I was like, these young Swick guys, never been in combat, never been in engagement. And I, and I walked out and they were just like, holy fuck, sir. I was like, well done, man.

• 5:44:34Speaker 07

  That's awesome, man.

• 5:44:35Speaker 06

  I was, I, to me, I was like, that's, that was, NSW at its finest. Like, it was really, I was so proud of them that night. They were like, whoa, whoa, this, they, they were kind of freaking out, you know, they're, cause you start, you get out and you start looking at the vehicles and you're like, that's a lot of rounds. Like, those are a lot of guys. And it turns out, uh, we got a, uh, the, the FOB guys, like, two days later, they're like, yeah, there was another twenty-five, enemy KIA at the ambush site.

• 5:45:07Speaker 07

  No shit.

• 5:45:07Speaker 06

  Yeah. I was like,

• 5:45:11Speaker 06

  dudes, welcome to the show, man. Uh, and that was Christmas Eve.

• 5:45:16Speaker 07

  That was Christmas Eve?

• 5:45:16Speaker 06

  Christmas Eve, dude.

• 5:45:18Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 5:45:18Speaker 06

  Christmas Eve.

• 5:45:22Speaker 06

  You know, we did a bunch of, a bunch of, and then Ops picked up with the Rangers after that. We did, we worked with some of the agency guys out of some of the Omegas, word got around. And then, the, one of the Ops that kind of turned me sour, my guys were up at Omega 60, sighting in, because we had a range up there. They were sighting in the Panders, and I was down at JBAD, and I had the Rangers with me. And selector popped for a guy, who was a 23-year-old Taliban sub-commander, and it was outside of Bagram. And I was like, what the fuck is this? 23, what is a 23-year-old anybody, like, in there? Anyways, it was an area that had been IED all the time. Army didn't go in anymore.

• 5:46:07Speaker 06

  This guy was in there, and that's why he didn't, he was like, nobody's gonna come get me. And the jock says, hey, man, send the Panders and the Rangers. And I went, I went to the headshot, I'm like, hey, this is, like, we got storms, I got no CAS, I got no, I got no meta back, I got JDAMs through the clouds. I mean, like, we're fucking hanging it out there, and this is like IED central. And they're like, so, go. And I'm like, what are we doing? Like, I'm okay with this, but what are we doing? Like, this is a Taliban, 23-year-old Taliban sub-commander, like, I take one catastrophic IED, I'm killing like 15 Rangers and four of my guys. And is this, in my mind, I'm like, is the juice worth

• 5:46:52Speaker 06

  the squeeze? I got no, I got no meta back, I got no CAS back, and I got no close air support. And they were just like, fucking go. All right. So, I scramble a C-130, I get the Rangers, we load up in JBAD, my guys are in Omega 60, they high-tail it down to Bagram, we meet in a hangar, C-130 pulls up, we literally, I have chalk, and we plan the, I pull up my computer, and we fucking, we look at the target, I got the Ranger GFC, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna drop you off here, we're gonna go here. This is what we got. We roll in there, and the fucking Rangers crushed it. It was fucked up, a super-channelized

• 5:47:34Speaker 06

  terrain, the RWS systems were worthless, the walls were taller than, than the guns. So we just literally drove in, and I remember this whole time, just had this sick feeling, I'm just like, dude, this is it. I've rolled the dice so many times in my life, like, this is, this is it.

• 5:47:49Speaker 06

  Fortunately, nothing happened. We grabbed the dude and we get out of there. We get back to Bogrom and I'm just like, oh, fuck. Good. I lay down about 20 minutes. I've been up for 48 hours scrambling this thing. I go into the jock, McRaven's there and I'm with the young ranger, captain, and McRaven's like, gentlemen, great political victory tonight. And I was like, that's an interesting thing to say. I was like, whoa, what's with the guy? Listen, he's really, his father's really close to Karzai. We let him go, but we got a lot of, we got a lot of political clap from this one, a lot of leverage. And I think,

• 5:48:29Speaker 06

  I'm not very good at hiding my emotions. I was like, what the fuck? You know what I mean? It was like that moment. I'm like, in, in, in my mind, yes, I'm a soldier. I follow orders. I do, I do what I'm supposed to do. But in my mind, I was like, not one of those guys' lives is worth, these guys are highly trained. Every single ranger, every single SWAC guy, every single SEAL, like, they're treasures. I'm like, what are we doing? You know what I mean? I just had this moment where I was like, and that was part of my like, okay, I don't know, I don't know if this is where I want to be anymore. I just didn't know how to rationalize it. Mm-hmm.

• 5:49:14Speaker 06

  We come back from that and the last stop I go on, like, Omega 60 calls me and there's a team guy up there. Hey, can you guys come up, do mobility for us? We got some, um, some of the Mohawks or something, the Indig Force. We were gonna go out with some of the agency guys and hit this target. And I was like, yeah, sure. So I go up there and the SEAL that was there, super squared away guy, really good, uh, senior enlisted, um, young guy. His name's Sean. And, um,

• 5:49:49Speaker 06

  That night, we go out and getting a little, a little engaged, but nothing crazy. But we had the, uh, the agency guy in our vehicle with us and we weren't driving the Panthers this time. We were driving, uh, we went out in the Hiluxes. We, I just took my guys up there to do the mobility portion for them. It was kinda cool that they were, they thought that highly of us that they would say, hey, come out and do this. Anyways, we go, we come back from that op and I'm sitting with Sean and we're kinda like laughing. And he hands me the AAR from the, from the op and I'm like, dude, who is this guy? He's like fucking Rambo. And he's like, that was a dude that was hiding in the back of our, in the backseat of the Hilux. He never got out and I was like, what? And so I just, I just started laughing. I'm just like, whatever.

• 5:50:34Speaker 06

  Everybody was writing themselves up for all, you know, it was like, how do you get promoted? And it was in every aspect. It was like numbers and, and it just, it just, it, it just felt like, it just felt wrong. You know what I mean? It would just felt wrong. And, uh, Sean, I laugh about it. And I was like, dude, where are you from? I didn't really know him in the squadron and we'd known each other. And he's like, I'm from this little town in Pennsylvania. I'm like, me too. He's like, oh yeah, where? And I'm like, I'm from Erie. He's like, I'm from Warren. I'm like, dude, we're like 20 minutes apart. And we start chatting and, um, he goes, uh, yeah, man, I used to ski at peak and peak. And I'm like, you used to ski at peak? I used to ski at peak, peak, like, and he, that's nuts, man. We probably rode the same lift together, riding our, you know, Carhartt Warriors ripping around the mountains.

• 5:51:19Speaker 06

  And the guy used to fish in Lake Erie trout and perch and, or perch and, uh, walleye. I'm like, that's crazy. That was the last op I go on. I, I fly home after that. And that's when the wheels, I, I mean, my, the TBI stuff starts bad, like bad. I'm driving to work without even, I, I was on a Sunday, I was sitting in the parking lot at the command. And I'm like, I don't know why I'm here. And my wife calls me, she's like, you left an hour ago. You were supposed to get diapers. And I'm like, shit, fuck. Well, fuck it. And I was getting, I was getting vertigo all the time. And then I'm like, well, maybe it's sea legs because we're, you know, we come back from rotation or immediately back out on the boats.

• 5:52:03Speaker 06

  I'm like, oh, maybe I just got in sea legs. And then these headaches started, like unbelievable headaches, splitting. And I'm just like, okay, I'm start taking Excedrin by like the handful. And my back, I'm going into Portsmouth to get pain injections at the pain clinic where they inject it into your spine. Um, and my back pain, my neck pain, my head, I'm just kind of like, holy fuck, this is. And my behavior goes to shit. I'm missing meetings. I'm like, I'm a fucking mess. And, and I'm, I'm, I'm feeling like, I'm feeling like something's, something's coming apart.

• 5:52:45Speaker 06

  But I'm like, fuck it. You just keep going. You just keep, you just keep going. And then my friend, Walt knocks on my door. He's like, hey, man. It's Friday. He goes, you're gonna start green team on Monday. And, uh, we're just gonna get you through assaults and then you're gonna go take troop up on the second deck. And I was like, Monday? Like dude, I'm, I'm, I'm still in my troop commander job here. I'm like, I can't just leave and go do that. Like you're fine. Already got covered with your boss. Everything's gonna be good. Just needed you to get through assaults. And I'm just like, physically, I'm fucking shot.

• 5:53:25Speaker 06

  I don't know what's going on. And I'm kind of losing my mind. I couldn't even read emails. I would just delete all my emails. That's what I do. Exactly. So I'm just like, the fucking shit's going south. But okay, you know what? I'm on the ride. What are we doing next? Let's go to green team. And, um, so I show up and I know all the guys. I've been at the command for four years. You know, everyone knows me. I've been there, buddies with everyone. They're like, what are you doing? I'm like, I gotta go through assaults again. And, but I'm getting, my gut is like, this is bad. Like, I don't want to go to the second deck, not because I don't want to operate, but because like I'm gonna get somebody fucking killed. Like, I can't even like, control myself right now.

• 5:54:10Speaker 06

  We start doing, get through the first week of assaults, every night I'm going back and I'm doing troop commander work the best that I can. Which my troop chief was just like, dude, what the fuck is going on with you? And I'm like, ah, it's fine. And we head out to, uh, I think it was like the third week of assaults and I couldn't remember

• 5:54:33Speaker 06

  in four man entries, I couldn't remember which way I was gonna go. And so I would sit there and I was wearing Solomons and I would count the things and I'm like left, right, I'm going left. So I would put a rock in my left shoe. I'm like, that's, that's how fucked up my brain was. And my, my cousin was running assaults and everybody thought he was like, Pete is gonna fucking breeze through here. And my cousin's like, what the fuck dude? You're a mess. And I'm like,

• 5:55:07Speaker 06

  like something that was very easy before, I was really fucked up. That week three, they pulled me aside and they're just like, my friend Walt's like, hey man, I fucked you over.

• 5:55:19Speaker 06

  I, you, this is bad timing for you. And I'm like, yeah. And they dropped me.

• 5:55:26Speaker 06

  And I'm like, and we got in the car and on the ride home, I turned to Walt and I told him everything. I was like, dude, I'm happy right now. Cause like, something's fucked up with me. Like I, I don't know what it is. I've never been here before, but like, this is a good thing. And they're like, well, just, just finish out your time, heal up, we'll reload you next year. And I went back and I wrote my letter of resignation. Oh shit. And I walked out, I'd put it in.

• 5:56:00Speaker 06

  And Heather left. She moved back up to Pennsylvania and we'd bought a house up in Erie and I was just kinda riding out my time and I moved in with Morgan Motrell. And I was just kinda limping through, like, hey, how, how long am I gonna be here? Time to get out, you know? They put me in an ops job. I was just like, ah, all right, Pete's off the fucking, off the train. And but I was getting worse and man, I started drinking like just to go to sleep at night. I was drinking glassfuls of Jack Daniels because my, my back pain was just unbelievable. My arm, my left arm was numb. I couldn't even play, couldn't play any music, couldn't think. I was driving, playing, I mean, Morgan finally says to me, he'd been in a helicopter crash

• 5:56:43Speaker 06

  and he'd gone through NICO, National Trappist Center of Excellence. He was the first SEAL to go there and live with him and he's watching me in the kitchen. He goes, dude, you got fucking TBI. You need to go to NICO. And I was like, what the fuck is TBI and what's NICO? He's like, I've been watching you for three weeks and you, you like, you, you can't sleep for your headaches. You, you like,

• 5:57:10Speaker 06

  you quite literally can't hold a conversation. I'll start a conversation with you and then you'll walk away. Like you walk out of the house four times to want you come back in to get your badge, your wallet, your keys. Like you'll forget where we're driving when we're driving in the car. He's like, dude, you, you're fucked up. And I was like, yeah, but I went to see this psych at, at the command and he goes, well, you're just like everybody else, man. Like, and I'm like thinking of myself. I'm like, everybody else is, yeah. I'm like, okay. All right. Well, fuck it. And I remember sitting thinking to myself like, okay, I had a great career. You know, I'm lucky. I'm lucky to be alive. We lost a lot of, you know,

• 5:57:53Speaker 06

  a lot of, lots of friends and all this stuff. And like, maybe it's just time to, you know, if this is the end of the road and this was the price that I paid, then okay, I'm losing my mind. And I'm

• 5:58:07Speaker 06

  getting ready to get out and we're just when this happened.

• 5:58:14Speaker 06

  Morgan gives me a brochure for NICO. And I walk into medical and Matt Hickey is the commander. He was a Naval Academy grad and went to med school, became a doctor. And he was the DMO at the command. And I walked in, I sat on his desk and I was like, I need help. And he's like, he was checking in. He just dropped everything and he sat me down and he goes, what is this? And I was like, I don't know. What's going on? And I just like dumped it on him. Matt calls the detailer, pulls my resignation. He's like, he's not getting out yet. I can't let him out. He's not medically, he's, he's, he's fucked up. He calls up the NICO. I got a guy, need to get him in. What are you, what do you do there? Talks to Jim Kelly, the physician in charge.

• 5:58:56Speaker 06

  And this July, they're like, beginning of July, they're like, you got a slot to go to NICO on August 1st. And I'm like, I'll try anything. And so head up.

• 5:59:08Shawn Ryan?

  Did your wife notice on any of the stuff?

• 5:59:10Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. She was just like, it, she was confiding, I think in her mom a lot, but she's like, she would watch me do shit. And I was like, she's like, you weren't in there. Like you were there, but you weren't in there. Like it wasn't, like you didn't come home and pick up a guitar and play. You were like absent from the kids. She had moved to Erie and Tanner was born, my third son. And like, I wasn't holding him. And she's like, I, I held, I'm like, I'm, I love my kids. Like every second I get to be with my children, I'm like picking them up, carrying them around, hugging them like,

• 5:59:54Speaker 06

  and I didn't hold Tanner. And she was like, what's wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't know. And then I started, and my drinking was just going through the roof.

• 6:00:05Speaker 06

  And I'm going to this Nyco place. I don't know what it is. I'm gonna try this. So I check into Nyco, first day. And they sit me in this room, walk me in the room, there's 12 doctors, there's nutritionists, everybody in the room. And they have my medical record out. And they go, tell us your story. And they're like, and Dr. Jim Kelly was sitting across from me, he goes, listen,

• 6:00:30Speaker 06

  part of the problem here is it's disconnected. What we're gonna do is we're gonna, we're as a team, we're gonna analyze your story so you only have to tell it one time. And walk us through this. And so I sat in there for hours and talked them through the story. And then they start scheduling appointments for me. And over the next month, I got 93 doctors' appointments, and I got five MRIs in my brain. I got, and Jim would sit me down and say, let's talk about what TBI is and what was happening, explain to me how my brain worked.

• 6:01:02Speaker 06

  And so I started building a brief. I'm like, because the last words from the psych were, you're just like everybody else. And I'm like, well, if everybody else is going through this, and there's an answer, then they need to know about it. And Jim was a great teacher. And so he's like, hey, listen, your brain, it's, think of your brain like a city, you got, you know, gray matter, the buildings, white matter of the streets and the sidewalk. That's, information travels on that. And

• 6:01:32Speaker 06

  when you pass energy through the cortex of your brain, it's like an earthquake. So if you were to fly over Washington DC on September 11th, you look down and you saw the Pentagon. That's a sports concussion. You know, that's Troy Aikman, you can rewind it, see where you got hit, you can say, hey, this is, this part of the brain, this is what the cognitive deficits might be from this type of injury. He goes, but with you guys? He's later on, I was on, I was in Washington DC on August 23rd and Jonas's funeral. When the earthquake hit and the building shaking, there was plaster falling off the ceilings. Well, after the earthquake, you'd fly over Washington DC and you'd think everything was alright. But the damage was actually on an order of magnitude greater.

• 6:02:16Speaker 06

  Because it was passing energy through the region, there were cracks in the sidewalks. There was cracks in the Washington Monument, there was infrastructure damage that there was, you couldn't tell. He's like, that's the same thing for blasts that passing through the energy of cortex of your brain. It's damaging all those streets and sidewalks. And now, information's gotta take detours. That's why you got a sweet tooth, that's why you're, you're drinking massive amounts of caffeine. That's you, everything is difficult for you, you've lost words, your, your headaches. He goes, and what we found is that, so when your brain is injured, the white matter is injured in your brain. Your brain releases stem cells to repair the white matter. But, stem cells are killed off by cortisol and adrenaline. And he goes, the major producers of cortisol and adrenaline are lack of level three sleep,

• 6:03:01Speaker 06

  uh, chronic pain and, uh, chronic, uh, um, I'm sorry, chronic pain, chronic, uh, lack of level three and four sleep and, um, um.

• 6:03:17Speaker 06

  I've said this like 10,000 times. Chronic pain, lack of level three and four sleep and, uh. Memory loss. Memory loss, yeah. It'll come back to me in a second. Anyways, you guys live in this perfect storm where you flip flop your circadian rhythms. Oh, stress, high levels of stress. So, high level stress, lack of level three and four sleep and chronic pain. He goes, all you guys are injured. You got some kind of neck, back, he's like, your neck, your back. Your body's producing high levels of cortisol. You, you fucked up your sleep because you're up all night and then you sleep all day. And I wasn't sleeping at all, the only way I would fall asleep is if I chugged a bunch of, um, alcohol or took some Ambien and you pass out. He goes, and then you're in, you know, chronic stress.

• 6:04:03Speaker 06

  You've been deploying, you're in a high-stress job. And so what's happened is, is these cognitive deficits just start to add up. And you just start to get to worse and worse and worse and worse. So what we need to do is break the pain cycle, break the stress cycle, and get you sleeping again. And that protocol there is to analyze how every part of your body, like, we got orthopedic pain, let's address the orthopedic pain. You got headache pain, let's address the headaches. But without, let's look what we can do. They used acupuncture. I went in for acupuncture and Dr. Kaufman did this acupuncture in my head. And I remember it was like somebody hit a button and my headache went away. And I left, I walked out of his office and I went to the,

• 6:04:46Speaker 06

  I was staying on Bethesda at the time, at the NICO, on the National Naval Medical Center. They put you up there. And I fell asleep, I slept for 18 hours. The first time I slept like that. I came in, I'm like, and they're like, welcome back. And I started to, I started to piece myself back together. And during that time I was there, extortion happened. So the first weekend, I'm at, I'm at NICO. I get there on August 1st. I go through this, the first week where they're explaining stuff. I start my testing. And then I drive home to see my kids. I crawl in bed, my phone lights up. It's two troops gone. I'm like, what?

• 6:05:30Speaker 06

  And then the names start. And I was like, oh my God. A sinking feeling, because I'm like, I'm thinking of the guys in gold. And I'm like, which, who's in two troop? And then I see JT's name, JT Tomlinson. And I'm just like, and then I see Jonas' name. And, you know, you know, everybody on that list. It's not like, it's not like, hey, names are flashing on a TV screen. It's like you have faces popping in your head. And I'm like, they're all gone. I went and I crawled in bed with Walker. I was like, dude, he was a baby. And I crawl, I just held my kids. And I'm like, holy shit.

• 6:06:14Speaker 06

  And, and then it came in waves. It was just like, that, that month was just like, I'm in NICO. I'm starting to come back together. I'm healing, but I'm like, You know, the command just got thrown into this mass casualty drill. We never lost that many people at one time. Like, how many, how many kids woke up that morning without a dad? It was like, like, you know, we're sending out teams to families like, like, over and over and over again. I mean, it, it just was like a shockwave that went through that place. And thank God I was at NiKo. Thank God I had the support that I did.

• 6:06:55Speaker 06

  And, you know, JT's was the one that hit me the most. Because he was, we were so close. He was in my wedding. Um, when we came back, we had a formal wedding at home and he flew up. Bo is the best man and JT was in the wedding and, and, um, Bo calls me and says, hey, man, um, we're gonna bury JT in Rockford at home. And I said, okay. I want you to sing a song. I was like, okay. I didn't even think about it. I'm like, fuck. Come home and I'm like, that day I woke up in the morning.

• 6:07:40Speaker 06

  What was messed up was before Bo called me and all that stuff happened, I woke up that morning. I had like a little MP3 player and I went for a walk in my neighborhood, same neighborhood I walk in right now. And the song came on called Hell For The Company. It was written by a guy I went to Naval Academy with, uh, Dave Bedokian. And he and I used to play guitar together and jam. And I was like, what? And, and it just kept playing in my head. And when Bo called me and said, hey, I need you to play JT's. I was like, kind of my worst nightmare. Because I knew the whole command would be there. We flew out to, we flew out there and I got some, I got a couple of days, a couple of

• 6:08:24Speaker 06

  extra days off from Niko and thank God Dr. Kaufman was there, he's a psychiatrist and I flew out there and it was like right out of a movie, it's like 1950's school, you know, a town in, rural town in Iowa with one stoplight and we walk in, it's like the, the, the old gymnasium with, then there's a stage inside the gymnasium, right, and that's, you know, the, the, all the old bricks and the seating on each side and the kid

• 6:09:00Speaker 06

  is, um, the kid running the soundboard and, and um, the guys started arriving and it was, they wheeled J T in, what was, what we thought was, I mean, when, when the, when the RPG hit the helicopter, it just incinerated and, I mean, it was like lights out, lights out and it, I, I, you know, how many times you've flown in a helicopter, how many times have you, like, coming in on landing and you're just like, and fortunately, I think,

• 6:09:40Speaker 06

  you know, Pete Van Hoosier at the memorial said it best, yeah, that's another Pete Van Hoosier, CO of the command at the time, he was the CO of group two when Red Wings went down and they brought him back, he was in retirement, they brought him out of retirement to be the CO of the command and then extortion happens. Damn. He told me, that's not a calling, he knew, he knew what to say to the families and how to handle it and, you know, he, he said, and I always, I always think about this, he said, you know, at the end of the speech, he was giving the memorial, at the end of the speech, he says, uh, he starts laughing, he's, you know, I gotta laugh, he goes, you

• 6:10:23Speaker 06

  know, they were all jocked up, they're getting ready to land, the Rangers are called troops and they're, they called for the Q R F and they're getting ready to get after it, he's like the RPG hits and all of a sudden they're sitting on the other side.

• 6:10:39Speaker 06

  They all look at each other and they go, "Motherfucker." And he said it in this way, and he's like, "And then they all walked into heaven." I'm paraphrasing, but...

• 6:10:54Speaker 06

  You know how many times you've replayed, like, what were the... What was the last second like?

• 6:11:01Speaker 06

  And I kept thinking about that, and they wheeled JT in. And all the command walks in, they sit down.

• 6:11:11Speaker 06

  JT's dog, Hawkeye, his chocolate lab, walks up to the casket and lays down in front of the casket.

• 6:11:21Speaker 06

  The command is there.

• 6:11:24Speaker 06

  All three of JT's girlfriends were there.

• 6:11:28Speaker 06

  They all met at the same time. We're all like...

• 6:11:35Speaker 06

  That's kind of funny. You know, team guys being... Team guy humor. And I'm in my blues, and Bo gives this absolutely amazing speech. And then they're like, "And now you're gonna sing."

• 6:11:50Speaker 06

  And I remember looking down, and playing in front of team guys, or singing in front of team guys, is like being a wounded zebra walking in front of a pride of lions. They're just like, you... They just... There's just... You can tell, like, don't... What are you gonna do? What the fuck?

• 6:12:08Speaker 06

  And I sang "Help For The Company." And I closed my eyes, I sang it.

• 6:12:15Speaker 06

  And...

• 6:12:19Speaker 06

  My Heather had met me there, and she had brought Tanner with me, with her, because he was newborn, he was still breastfeeding. And, you know, we... That memorial, you know, we... I wasn't drinking, I stayed sober. The minute I went to night go, I put the booze down. And I was sober for that whole thing. And it was... And I experienced all of the extortion stuff sober. And it was... It was different, and it hurt more. I wanted to... I wanted to grab a beer, and I wanted to do a shot. And I was just sober and clean and clear, and I could just... I felt it all.

• 6:13:03Speaker 06

  And we packed up and I went back to Niko.

• 6:13:08Speaker 06

  And um.

• 6:13:11Speaker 06

  I get a call from the chaplain. And he says, hey, we're having the Arlington ceremony. And he was on the 17th. And um, the plan is they're gonna do the change of command. They're gonna say a few words. It's in the All Thays Chapel. And you're gonna sing. And I was like, no way. And he's like, listen, here's the deal. We can't have a denominational service. Because we have too many guys. We're gonna do the, the, the, a quick change of command. Pete Manhoos is gonna give the remarks.

• 6:13:48Speaker 06

  Wyman Howard's gonna take over and he's gonna give his remarks. And I was in Rockford and I want you to sing. And that's what it's gonna be. And I was like.

• 6:14:02Speaker 06

  Like, oh.

• 6:14:05Speaker 06

  I didn't wanna go. I didn't wanna be at the command. I don't wanna be anywhere near. I was like, I'm a, I'm a failure. I'm a quitter. Dropped out. I think I was shit can. You know what I mean? I was like.

• 6:14:16Speaker 06

  I showed up. And I got up there.

• 6:14:21Speaker 06

  And I closed my eyes. And I sang. And we buried them.

• 6:14:31Speaker 06

  And that.

• 6:14:35Speaker 06

  That was.

• 6:14:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, I can talk about that all day, but.

• 6:14:41Speaker 06

  For me, I shut the door on it.

• 6:14:44Speaker 06

  On it all. That was it? That was it for me.

• 6:14:50Speaker 06

  That was it for me.

• 6:14:55Speaker 06

  It's a tough ride, man. It was a tough ride.

• 6:15:01Speaker 06

  But then, you know, went out to the west coast. I built this brief. And I'm like, I'm gonna, we got a TBI problem.

• 6:15:10Speaker 06

  You know what? I'm gonna help the guys. Started getting phone calls. Two in the morning. I went back. I gave the first, uh, the first blast effect brief to Red. I walked in. I say, hey, can I have 30 minutes of your time? They're like, where'd you go, dude? Did you go to the nut house? Like, what the hell happened? And I said, uh, so I gave the first TBI brief. I explained what traumatic brain injury was. I explained the symptoms. I explained the comorbidities between TBI and PTSD. You know, I was talking about sleep. Walked through all of it. Every guy in the room was like, dude, I got all of that. And I remember Commander Williams was like, and the doc at the time was like, whoa.

• 6:15:54Speaker 06

  Like, there's a way out of this? Like, and

• 6:16:00Speaker 06

  we started stacking guys up going to NICO. NICO became the revolving door for the command. Everybody was going up there. And I was fielding calls at two in the morning from guys hurting. And I just found this purpose in, I'm like, well, you know what? I came here to save.

• 6:16:16Speaker 06

  That's what you said at the beginning. Then I'm, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna save these fucking guys. I went to the west coast. Started giving the brief.

• 6:16:27Speaker 06

  And I hit this brick wall. Ah, we don't have TBI. That's a death group problem. Ah, we don't want to have that. I mean, you ever had a concussion? Well, yeah, I've had hundreds of concussions. I'm like, but I don't have TBI.

• 6:16:40Speaker 06

  My boss at the time was like, you made it all up. You're just lazy. And I'm just like, and I got this, this, I hit this wall at WarCom and Group One. And it was like, we don't have this problem. Meanwhile, I'm fielding phone calls of guys being like, how do I get help? And, and I had gotten a lot better. Like, the NICO just, it was like, I just changed directions out of NICO. And it was like, within two months of being out of there, I mean, I wasn't good, but I was, what I thought was like night and day better. And we started, my wife and I started speaking to the, uh, the, the teams that would come back.

• 6:17:21Speaker 06

  And every time we would give our speeches at the, the family post deployment retreats, which we never got.

• 6:17:30Speaker 06

  We would give the speech and I would start talking about like, you know, bad, walking out and with my, forgetting my badge and keys every other, every time and drinking and, and my wife would, then she would get up there and just basically throw me under the bus. And the wives were just although the husbands and

• 6:17:49Speaker 06

  I was like, okay. Like, you know, we've been through 15 years of sustained combat, like, like the Navy doesn't, I came to this conclusion, like the Navy doesn't love you. Navy does not give two fucks about you. Naval special warfare doesn't love you. They don't give two fucks about you. And that's okay. They don't, they shouldn't. They've got a mission. They've got a job. And they didn't want to acknowledge the problem. I don't think they have yet. Because it was like, if we acknowledge the problem, then we gotta do something about it. And if we do something about it, we gotta start changing our modus operandi. We gotta start changing how we are breaching protocols. You know, you eat enough, you know, you stand three feet from a door and clack off explosives.

• 6:18:30Speaker 06

  You're passing all kinds of energy through the cortex of your brain. Like, we had to, we gotta come up with a way. You know, and I was like, so the problem isn't now gonna be solved by the commands inside of NSW. It's gonna be solved by the support mechanisms around NSW. And there was a couple of the guys from the command with me out there and, um, I put in my letter of resignation. And our parting trip,

• 6:18:59Speaker 06

  five of us went up to Alaska and we climbed and summited Denali.

• 6:19:06Speaker 06

  And then skied down. And, uh, I took my, my bracelet, my memorial bracelet from, I went up to the top of the Denali and I tied it to the, tied it to the, uh, the plaque that's on top that marks the summit. I'm like, I'm done. I'm done grieving. That was about a year after that. Like I've, I've grieved. I'm gonna, now I'm gonna go try to fix this the best way I can on the outside. So I left, I came home and got out of the Navy with no plan, no job. Like, they were just like,

• 6:19:45Speaker 06

  See you. And some guys didn't even know I got out. They're like, wait, you got out? What's going on? I'm like,

• 6:19:55Speaker 06

  at one point during that time, called the detailer and they said, well, because you fell off your career path by essentially taking time off going to NICO because it wasn't acknowledged, nobody knew what it was.

• 6:20:11Speaker 06

  You're gonna have to take another trip with SEAL Team Seven back to Afghanistan for a year if you want to stay in the path, in the pipeline. And I came home and I looked at Heather, she's like, no. No. Like, these three, that's your priority. And I was like, okay. They got out.

• 6:20:39Speaker 06

  I just kind of walked out the door, stayed in the reserves for a couple of years. But when they looked at my background, like, I was a great reservist. I can be plugged into any part of NSW that you need. They called me up, they're like, we're gonna activate you. I was like, I just got out. I was going to every, I was trying to speak at nonprofits, I was trying to raise money. I did a campaign with NAPA. We raised, I don't know how many millions of dollars we raised, but we opened up 10 more NICO satellite centers.

• 6:21:06Speaker 06

  I started, that first year, I worked as a ski instructor at Snowmass and I started skiing the big mountain competitions. So I was like, my love of skiing, I felt at home there. Like, maybe I'll prove, in my mind, I was like, if I go do this, then I can prove that I'm healed. And that was when I was approached by the Men's Journal guy and said, hey, I want to do an article. And I was like, well,

• 6:21:36Speaker 06

  Jim Kelly had left Niko and he wanted to open up another facility

• 6:21:42Speaker 06

  in Aurora, Colorado for the veterans. And I was like, "Perfect." You know, Niko is for active duty. We need something on the outside for veterans. And this can be for veterans. Same protocols. So Jim and I start working on it. I was like, "Well, I'll do this article about how like your protocols healed me." And, you know, that'll bring some attention and maybe that'll help with donors. And guy came out. We talked about the article, doing the article. He came to an event and I did horribly at the event. And I was new to any of that media. And at one point he goes, he said to me, "We're gonna..." He's like, "Hey, the next article I'm doing is about that Captain Phillips mission. Talk to these FBI guys who said, you know, the SEAL story is BS.

• 6:22:27Speaker 06

  And I'm gonna do the article about the FBI guys." And I was like, "Don't do that. That's, that's not true." And he's like, "Well, how do you know?" I was like, "Well, I was there." And I was, I was there when the FBI showed up after, after the shots were taken. You know, came across the, "Hey, pirates are dead." We were like, "Woohoo." Like 24 hours later, the FBI was like, "We're here." We're like, "For what?" And so I told that to the, the, the author. And when the article comes out, it was about how I led the Captain Phillips mission. And they timed it with the opening of the movie. And it wasn't about healing from TBI. And I was like, and then the hate poured in from, "What were you thinking?" And I was like, "That's not what I wanted it.

• 6:23:11Speaker 06

  I intended it to be about traumatic brain injury and how I was getting better. And, and it was supposed to be to raise money." And nobody cared.

• 6:23:22Speaker 06

  Damn, man.

• 6:23:24Speaker 06

  Then we found Bernie Marcus, founder of Home Depot. And he signed on and he gave us $38 million. We opened the doors to the Marcus Brain Institute in Aurora, Colorado. And I got to give the opening speech. And, um, and Jim Kelly took the helm there and we started healing veterans.

• 6:23:46Speaker 06

  And it was fucking awesome. Congratulations. Yeah. That is fucking awesome. It was pretty cool, man. I was like, oh, that was, that was, that made it. And then I fucking took a massive digger skiing. He got another massive concussion. And I called Jim and he's like, okay, this like skiing thing, it's big mountain, you just, can you just not hit your head again because you're gonna be licking the windows? And I was like, okay. And,

• 6:24:27Speaker 06

  you know, it's kind of tumbling through different jobs after that. And um, I worked at a place called Rally, gave a speech. It was a software healthcare company, um, started by his young. And the original idea was to fix, I pitched him my thing called life optimization was how to use wearable devices to uh manage, you know, heart rate variability and cortisol levels and be able to predict predictive modeling on who is gonna get in the red for TPI symptoms. And he's like, we're doing that here. And then like tech works, you know, you get in for one reason and then money arrives and you hang a right

• 6:25:08Speaker 06

  hand turn. And that company, you know, granted very well. Um, Rally turned into a fantastic success.

• 6:25:17Speaker 06

  He was like thirty three when he sold it.

• 6:25:21Speaker 06

  We talking about Grant who? For standard. I know Grant. Yeah. I was, I went to work at Rally when it was Audax. And uh, Oh shit. Yeah, I went and gave, I gave it the blast effect speech and like a leadership speech. And then I handed Grant my business plan for uh wearable devices. And you know, how do we do predictive modeling? And Grant said, we're gonna do that here at Rally. Come work with us. I went to work at Rally. And then the first tranche buyouts came with United coming in. And you know, we went from startup to being worth five hundred million overnight. And then.

• 6:26:06Speaker 06

  Rally, you know, it was an engagement tool. But it was a great education on, you know, tech startups and how that all. And I was flying back and forth from Colorado and um, just, I mean, I was burning the candle at both ends again. I gotta make a living. I gotta figure this out with my kids. And, you know, Grant being a wonderful dude, super supportive through all of it. And um, when it took the right hand turn and became, we weren't gonna go do the wearable devices integration to fix TBI. It was an engagement tool for United. I was like, I'm

• 6:26:50Speaker 06

  out. And I'm falling apart. And just then, Cactus called me out of the blue. Hey, man, I got this song passed to me and we're doing this documentary. You wanna come record an album? And I was like, I got nothing else going on. I flew to Nashville. And like you heard the first story, that's how I met Cactus and Wy. And then the Patriot Tour came up. And, you know, Marcus was gonna take a bunch of vets out to talk about stuff and said, hey, I'd like somebody to come play music. So I went out and I did 14 stops on the Patriot Tour with them, recorded another.

• 6:27:30Shawn Ryan?

  That feel to get into music?

• 6:27:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, the music part was a, that was nice because, you know, Jim Kelly was like, music is the best thing you can do for your brain. And I was like, oh, maybe this is where I need to, maybe this is where I need to go, you know? And, and I, you know, the first EP we cut was really the heart and soul of what we were gonna do. And then I started to see the music business and I recorded the second album and I realized like,

• 6:28:00Speaker 06

  And you had John Rich on here talking about the music business and

• 6:28:06Speaker 06

  the reality was, I remember I sat down, I was getting a record deal, talking to different A and R guys and this is gonna happen. And they said, here's the deal, man. There's 273 radio stations around the country, country radio, 75 million daily listeners. The way it works is, we sign you, it's gonna be a 360 deal, I got a bunch of great songs, you're gonna cut them. In the meantime, once we cut the record, you're gonna fly to all 273 radio stations and you're gonna meet everybody and show your face, then we take one of your singles, we put our radio team behind it, put a bunch of money behind it. Essentially, you buy a spot on the billboard.

• 6:28:51Speaker 06

  And then that summer, we're gonna put you out on a tour and you're gonna be opening up. You'll pay to open for a big name to get in front of their, their people and then we're gonna rinse and repeat for five years. And at the end of the five years,

• 6:29:12Speaker 06

  you're gonna be poor, but you're gonna be famous and

• 6:29:19Speaker 06

  we, you know, we can, you can move on from there with another deal or however, whatever direction you want to go. And I sat there and I was like, but I want to write my own songs. Guy goes, it doesn't work like that. You can do that later. I'm like, so you're just gonna use my story to sell your shit? And then I'm gonna play your stuff and I'm gonna have to play your stuff for the rest of my life, whether I like it or not. And I'm gonna be on the road 300 days a year and basically gonna make nothing. The 360 deal, they take a piece of everything, your merch, everything. Like, well, it's only for five years. And I was like,

• 6:29:58Speaker 06

  That's a horrible idea. Cactus was like, that's a horrible idea. And I was imploding. Like, I was playing shows, I was traveling. You did it. No, I didn't take the deal. I started to try to, I kind of took the route that Tim Montana took, and that was go out and get sponsors. And, you know, you get sponsored by an outdoor company and, you know, you put out a bunch of, you do their social media for them, and they're gonna pay you a lump sum. And, you know, you try to push, pay for your own record, your own record teams. And so I did that shortly. I had one single called Walking a Wire that was, hired a record team for like 10 grand,

• 6:30:43Speaker 06

  and it was a co-write with Dirks Bentley and Dave Lee Murphy. And it got to 39 on the Music Row charts. I hated the song. I cut another song for- You get to 39? Yeah, on Music Row charts. It wasn't on the Billboard chart, it was on the JV chart. But I was able to get to 39. And I was like, that's kind of cool. And American Sniper was coming out, and I'd been on the Patriot tour with Taya, Kyle, and she said, would you cut this Heart's I Leave Behind song and we'll put it in the movie? And I said, yeah. I went to Y. I'm like, you want to do this with me? It's gonna go in this American Sniper movie. And so, Y Cactus and I went in, and we cut Heart's I Leave Behind.

• 6:31:28Speaker 06

  And, right before the movie came out, they're like, yeah, so we, it was supposed to be in the memorial page for Chris. Like, where they show all the pictures at the end of the movie. And, they were like, it's gonna be silence. I was like, what? I just invested a bunch of this money in recording all this stuff. And I was kind of like, okay, so now I got this song, what do I do with it? And I'm like, I know Glenn Beck. I called Glenn Beck, and I'm like, hey Glenn, I got this song, recorded for this movie,

• 6:32:09Speaker 06

  and it's not gonna be in the movie, but what I'll do is, whatever we make off it, I'll donate to Taya's charity.

• 6:32:20Speaker 06

  Above the what it cost me to cut it, just so I can get out of this thing. And Glenn's like, let's do it. So he put me on talk radio. And Glenn told the story and said, hey, this money is going to be donated. And it went to number one in iTunes.

• 6:32:37Shawn Ryan?

  You went to number one?

• 6:32:38Speaker 06

  Number one on iTunes for a couple of days. And it's the last number one that Winona's had was hard slightly behind.

• 6:32:49Speaker 06

  And I, I cut the check to tie, to cut the check to Taya. I looked around and this is like, I mean, this is when, this is when the PTSD hit me like a freight train. I thought it was like TBIs are very good. PTSD is not gonna, not gonna happen to me. I'm good. I'm being clear of it. And the stress of that whole timeframe.

• 6:33:18Shawn Ryan?

  Throughout your entire, everything you've been through.

• 6:33:21Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 6:33:22Shawn Ryan?

  From 10 months old until, what age are you here?

• 6:33:27Speaker 06

  Thirty, so I'm 48 now. So I was probably 39.

• 6:33:33Shawn Ryan?

  So damn near 40 years.

• 6:33:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:33:36Shawn Ryan?

  All the shit that we just discussed and you didn't think PTSD was gonna affect you.

• 6:33:41Speaker 06

  Dude, I'm bulletproof. I'm a, I'm a Sierra land commando. Get a massive ego. I'm a country music star. Like nothing is gonna affect me. I can do anything. I can ski big mountains. My life is good.

• 6:33:59Speaker 06

  I just made some bad business decisions, lost a bunch of money, sold my house in Colorado and I moved home. I quit music and I was.

• 6:34:13Speaker 06

  I ended up sitting down on our family's property

• 6:34:19Speaker 06

  with 357 sitting on the creek. And I was like,

• 6:34:26Speaker 06

  I'm doing nobody any good.

• 6:34:29Speaker 06

  I'm like an emotional wreck, couldn't control myself. Like, I'm seeing visions of my father being mean. Drinking like, I'm out full-blown.

• 6:34:42Speaker 06

  I was never physically addicted to alcohol, but I was, like, I'd drink from the, get up in the morning. And I was just off the rails. I mean, off the rails.

• 6:34:57Speaker 06

  Went down there to end it.

• 6:35:00Speaker 06

  And then I heard this voice in my head say, "No."

• 6:35:05Speaker 06

  I shot the tree.

• 6:35:09Speaker 06

  And then

• 6:35:13Speaker 06

  went home.

• 6:35:16Speaker 06

  And I was just like, I don't, I don't know what to do. I need help. Where were your, where were your wife and kids? At home, in Erie. We were all home back in Erie at that point.

• 6:35:29Speaker 06

  And, uh, I was, I was working for Velocity Outdoors. Russ Rowan and, and, uh, Tom McGann

• 6:35:38Speaker 06

  called me up. They'd worked on another project with me and they said, "Uh, hey, listen, you wanna come and..." They had sponsored some of my music and they were really great to me. They said, "Come in and do brand with us." And Russ is, he, he came from Burton. Uh, he was, Russ and Tom, Tom was the CEO of Burton, CEO of Spider, CEO of KNN. And, uh, Russ was his brand guy at every piece. And I said, "You're a creative guy." Like, "Come in and help us with brand." And so I had been working with them and, and they were just like, "Dude, are you okay?" Like, "It's starting to come apart." And, like, "We can see it." And I was just like, "I,

• 6:36:23Speaker 06

  I don't know, like, what, I don't know what to do."

• 6:36:27Speaker 06

  One of the guys I climbed an Ollie with, that I was in the squadron with, calls me out of the blue. He says, Ed calls me, he says, "I love you." I said, "I love you too, Ed." He goes, "We're gonna go to Mexico and do the world's most powerful psychedelic drugs."

• 6:36:47Speaker 06

  And I was like, "Okay."

• 6:36:52Speaker 06

  "Has anybody done this?" He's like, "Yeah, a couple guys." I'm like, "Who? Anybody I can talk to?" And he says, "Uh, yeah, Sean, the guy I went on the last op with, out in Omega." "He just went." I was like, "Oh." I call Sean up. He's, he's a very stoic dude, really smart, got out, got his MBA, working, crushing it. I said, "How did you do that? You did this ibogaine."

• 6:37:24Speaker 06

  "But what is it?" Like, at this point, I'm like, you know, I just had a gun in my mouth. Like, "Ibogaine? What is it? I'll try it." And he goes, "Well, I don't wanna give you too many expectations, but, uh..." It, he goes, "When I was under in the medicine, I was in the delivery room with my parents." He goes, "I was, uh, you don't know this, but I was adopted." And I was like, "Dude, my mom died when I was 10 months old." And I've always asked, like, "Why'd God leave me alone?" He goes, "That's your fire question."

• 6:38:02Speaker 06

  And I was like, "What's a fire question?" He goes, "You gotta write down your intention for your journey before you go into the medicine, throw it in the fire." And I was like, "Okay." Like, I had no idea what I was getting into. This is 2019. So I called another friend of mine, Micah Fink, who started Heroes and Horses. And I said, "Micah, fucking shit's coming off the route, like, I'm bad." He's like, "All right, you're in the, you're gonna come to Heroes and Horses in June, first class, 2019. We're gonna do 40 days in the wilderness riding a horse." And I was like, "All right, well, I'm gonna go do this plant medicine right before that." So I'm like, "I'll just throw everything at the kitchen sink and see if any of this shit works.

• 6:38:43Speaker 06

  And if it doesn't, then I'll go back to that 357 and, like, not torture my family like my father tortured me."

• 6:38:53Shawn Ryan?

  What did you say to your family when you got back from the creek? Did they have any idea what was going on?

• 6:39:00Speaker 06

  No.

• 6:39:01Shawn Ryan?

  Did you ever tell them? This is gonna be the first time they hear it?

• 6:39:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:39:08Shawn Ryan?

  How do you think they're gonna react?

• 6:39:12Speaker 06

  I think they're gonna be upset.

• 6:39:16Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think they're gonna be understanding?

• 6:39:21Speaker 06

  You know, the kids were really young at that point, and I don't think they saw much. I think Lena might have understood that I was upset. I was distant, I was just hiding in the basement. You know, drinking all the time. But I'm not like my dad. I'm not an angry drunk. I'm a fun guy. You know, like, no one was ever gonna tell me to stop drinking because I didn't have a problem with it. Like, I was the life of the party. You know, and so drinking was a way to make me happy.

• 6:39:52Speaker 06

  And I think, but I know my wife knew.

• 6:39:57Speaker 06

  She was just like, dude, what is this? Like, what are you, like, what are you, who are you?

• 6:40:04Shawn Ryan?

  She knew what?

• 6:40:06Speaker 06

  She, I mean, I just wasn't myself. I was just plummeting, like, our, she's tough as nails. And she, she hits, she, she met me where I was all the time. She wasn't a pushover. You know, she's a, she's a lion when it comes to the kids. And she's like, no, no, you're gonna, like, but she saw, like, I, emotionally, I was just like, all over the place. And we were fighting left and right, and she was holding the fort down. She's like, well, figure it out. We gotta, we gotta figure this out. We gotta, we gotta make a living, we gotta do this, we gotta, we gotta keep moving forward. You have to keep moving forward. And I was just like, I, I don't know what, I can't.

• 6:40:49Speaker 06

  Like, that's when the nightmare started. I wasn't sleeping at all, sweating through the sheets. Like, she would roll over and be like, whoa. I mean, like, soaked.

• 6:41:01Speaker 06

  And I just get up, you know, and I was, again, I'm a very good drunk. Like I, and then I lighten up and I'm happy. And she was just like, hey, and my mother-in-law noticed, my friends noticed. My buddies from home, so I'm back at home at this point and they're all just like, you know, hey, what's with Pete? Something's going on, you know, and, and a couple of my buddies were starting to sniff around and, and I, I was just like, I remember what, I remember thinking like, now I know how my dad felt.

• 6:41:35Speaker 06

  Like now I know what he was thinking. He was, he was like, I'm no good. I'm gonna hurt him. I just gotta get out of this. And, and I was like, I'm my father. I remember thinking that, like, I'd become my father. I was like, the worst. I think that's what really like set me down to the creek. Like you're him.

• 6:42:02Shawn Ryan?

  Are you worried about them saying this?

• 6:42:05Speaker 06

  No. No.

• 6:42:08Shawn Ryan?

  Will you watch it with them?

• 6:42:11Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:42:13Speaker 06

  I will.

• 6:42:16Speaker 06

  Because what came after that is beautiful.

• 6:42:24Speaker 06

  And I believe that

• 6:42:29Speaker 06

  the cracks in the armor let the light shine through.

• 6:42:33Speaker 06

  And life is gonna be shitty for everyone. It's gonna take you to places. You know, with my son doing what he's doing.

• 6:42:44Speaker 06

  I don't care how tough you are. I don't care what you wear on your chest, I don't, what your job is, how much money you make, like, you're here, you're a spirit here to learn lessons and you're gonna learn those lessons.

• 6:42:58Speaker 06

  And the only thing as a parent that you can do is love your kids

• 6:43:05Speaker 06

  of everything about them. And for them to see this and see that and know that I was there. And to know where I'm at now.

• 6:43:18Speaker 06

  That's just as important as any story, war story, or anything like that, more important.

• 6:43:25Speaker 06

  That that happened a million miles away. And they may have seen on movie or something. What it looked like.

• 6:43:34Speaker 06

  That moment was, I should know.

• 6:43:44Speaker 06

  Flew out to, I flew out there. And you do it. You have fourteen guys show up to do I began together. We're all just like,

• 6:43:57Speaker 06

  what? Okay, you're kind of making jokes. You're back in the, you're back in that like mindset. Yeah, I'm with my buddies like this is good. We're gonna go do this stuff. And we had a fire ceremony. Why'd you leave me alone? God, during the fire.

• 6:44:14Speaker 06

  And then

• 6:44:16Speaker 06

  fucking blast off into I began land. I remember, I remember laying there. I'm like, when is, when is this gonna hit? And it was like somebody plugged me in. You know, the vibrating was like

• 6:44:31Speaker 06

  and then the memories. And it was like a rolodex. It was like every memory that I didn't even know I had. It was like sitting watching iPad. And all the bad ones, I just kept coming back. And, and then the purging. And the and that, you know, the, the guys and the other guys in the room, I didn't purge as much. There was one dude in the room. I was like, he's giving birth to a demon. He's over there. I remember at one point like pulling my headset off. I'm like, get after it, buddy. Like cheering him on. And that dude.

• 6:45:09Speaker 06

  Man.

• 6:45:12Speaker 06

  That's, that substance is truly a divine gift. There is no.

• 6:45:22Speaker 06

  I remember that before the therapists were like, so the first few hours, you're not in control. But then, at a certain point, you're gonna be, you're gonna be able to ask the medicine questions. And then it's gonna show you things. And I'm just like, I remember just being the smart ass that I am. I was like, well, how should I address the medicine? She's like, just call it medicine. And I was like, like, we're all kind of like laughing at each other. When I got through the first part, I was just like, medicine? Can we talk now? Like, and, you know, that first Abigail journey, it was like night and day. I woke

• 6:46:06Speaker 06

  up from the first part of it. And I was, I kept seeing this demon. It was like this tiny little demon. And he came to the foot of my bed. And the first time I called him Bart, and I kicked him out. And he was, he was cute. Like tiny little demon, and this tail that hung over top. And he like swing around. And he just walking around. And then he came back. And I called him Doug, and I kicked him out. He came back a third time. Because three is my number. And I called him Dart, and I kicked him out. I got up laughing about Dart. And I went downstairs. And they were like, what's going on? And I felt really good. Like, some guys post Abigail are like, they feel like shit, and they don't move. But I get like this burst of energy. And I got up, and I'm just like, wow. I go downstairs,

• 6:46:51Speaker 06

  and I start talking to therapists. And I draw Dart. And then all of a sudden, I got this, I'm really tired again. So I go back to sleep. And I had this like, movie playing my head, like a 4K movie. Like, like I'm watching it, but I'm off, and then I'm in it, then I'm watching it, and then I'm in it. And it's about Dart. And it is hilarious. But it's the realest thing I've ever seen and been a part of. And

• 6:47:24Speaker 06

  Like I fall back asleep and it's like 4K movie and I'm watching this guy walk into a bar. He's like, I think he's like a finance guy, good looking dude. He's got a couple of girls. They're getting ready to, they're at a bar, they order, they order some, you know, martinis. And he knows everybody at the bar and they're like, hey, let's go to the bathroom and let's do some, you know. I'm watching this guy do drugs with the things and, and I watched the, the girl goes, here, I got this stuff. It's like mushrooms, but you know, it's more powerful. Do you want to take it? And the guy's like, I'll try anything. And I was, he, I'm, she's like, what's it called? It's like I began, I was like, don't take that shit. And the guy in the movie takes it.

• 6:48:03Speaker 06

  And, uh, and then they, they leave the bar, they go to this apartment and all of a sudden he starts getting sick. And the girl's like, we're out of here. And this guy's just, he's purging and, and I'm like, I told you, you know, I'm like having this half, you know, minute half in this, out of this trip. He's purging and all of a sudden it goes black and then it starts up again. And now I'm in the guy's body and I'm sitting, I'm leaning against the bathtub and the toilet is here. And the demon is sitting in front of me, dart. And, and he, and he's got Danny DeVito's voice and he goes, let me back in. I was like, what the fuck was like? Oh my God, what the fuck was that?

• 6:48:46Speaker 06

  I'm like, what is, this can't be happening. And I get up and I'm like, somehow I know I have to go to work. I gotta work and this demon's like, come on, man, let me, give me back, let me back in, let me back in. And I'm like, no, whatever I took last night, like, that was way too powerful. Like go into my room, I get clothes, I don't know how I'm doing any of this. It's like, it's part of this movie. Darts follow me around. We take the elevator downstairs and I walk out in the street and now there's like hundreds of darts. I see them everywhere. And, and, and he's like seeing guys, it's like, hey, and they're all these cute little demons. They're not mean, they're like a hybrid of like, it's like Pokemon, but like demonic. And they're in this little realm and they're just kind of strutting around and talking to each other.

• 6:49:29Speaker 06

  And I'm just like, whatever I took last night, like I shouldn't have taken that. But this demon, it's like, this is the dirtiest thing. He, he's just every, every thought that you have that you don't want to come out of your mouth is coming out of his mouth. And he's just running around, it's just spewing it everywhere. Go to, I go to work. I don't know how I get to work. I'm just playing in this movie. This movie's going along. And, you know, he's just like every girl that comes up, he's trying to look up her dress. He's motorboating them. He's just like the dirtiest little demon. And he's like, you know, you know, he goes into, he runs into like a guy's office and there's a bunch of booze and he's just like trying to grab the booze, but he can't grab the booze.

• 6:50:09Speaker 06

  And I'm having this conversation like, stop it, like fighting with the people, but nobody else sees the demon except for me. And Dart, and so finally someone's like, dude, you need to go home. And so I leave. And Dart follows me and the sun is setting. And I sit on a park bench and Dart sits next to me and I'm just like, what are you? And he's like,

• 6:50:35Speaker 06

  who are these? What is this? He's like, we're demons. I go, well, what's the deal? He goes, well, I need, I need to be in you. So I can enjoy things. You and I have been together forever. He's like, I love you team guys. He's like, we've got a great relationship. He's like, you guys are like winning the lottery. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, look, you guys play hard and then you party hard. He's like, so I let you, I let you do what you need to do. We do fun stuff together. He's like, and then when it's time for me to get what I want? Then I get what I want. I've been with you since the academy. And I was just like, I'm like, what? Well, I'm like, how do you get into people?

• 6:51:18Speaker 06

  And he's like, like, see that guy? He's like, he's like, look down. He's like, everyone's got like an aura.

• 6:51:25Speaker 06

  He's like, he's like the green, don't go for the green. We don't go for the green. He goes the yellow and the red. He's like, that's the guys. Those are the target guys. Those are the ones that are primed for the picking.

• 6:51:37Speaker 06

  And, and so we're sitting out there, the, the sun goes down and I'm having this conversation with the demon about how demons work. Guy comes out of a bar. He's like, see that guy right there? He's like, that's Billy. This little demon is just like, this cute little guy running around. He's like, Billy always picks the bad ones. He's like, that guy, that guy's gonna go cheat on his wife. And just then Billy jumps in, the demon jumps into the dude and the guy grabs a girl and they go off. He's like, here's the problem. That guy, he's a good dude. He's just having a bad day. He's gonna wake up in the morning, have a crisis of conscience. He's gonna kick Billy out. And Billy's gonna be back out on the streets. He didn't pick like I picked. He's like, I picked you.

• 6:52:16Speaker 06

  And I was like, sitting there looking at Dart, I'm like, it's starting to make a lot of sense to me.

• 6:52:24Speaker 06

  So I go home and I get on the computer. I'm like, I gotta find like a shaman lady. Cause I'm like, whoever does this medicine, maybe I can get this medicine stuff out. And the whole time I'm asking Dart questions. I'm just like, well, why don't you pick some like rich guy? And then just have all the fun in the world. He goes, no, no, no, no, no. You don't pick the rich guys. They go to exotic islands and they do all kinds of weird medicine. And then you're stuck on that island till you find some poor sap to get a ride home with. I'm just like, whoa.

• 6:52:50Speaker 06

  And so I find this shaman.

• 6:52:53Speaker 06

  Oh, I find a shaman. This is the movie.

• 6:52:56Speaker 06

  We go down and I go to this, go across town, hop in a cab, go up to this apartment. I knock on the door and this woman opens the door. And she goes, can I help you? And she looks down and she goes, and hello to you too. And I was like, you see him? She's like, come on in. We need to talk. And I was like, okay.

• 6:53:17Speaker 06

  I need to get rid of him. And she's like, well, it's not that easy. And I go, well, how do I get rid of him? She goes, you gotta let him back in.

• 6:53:28Speaker 06

  He's like, see, I told you the whole time. It's like a comedy show with this with Dart, cause he's like cracking jokes and it's funny. And I'm laughing and in my dream, I'm laughing and the therapist, I didn't know this, were sitting up there watching me laugh. And I'm just like having this thing. And I go, okay, well, what happens? She goes, you gotta let him back in. See demons are just toxic egos. And when their body dies, they don't believe there's anything bigger than them. They don't journey, they don't join the universal collective. The only way for him to join the universal collective and leave is to feel forgiveness. And that's what true love is. So you gotta let him in and you gotta forgive him. And then he'll leave you.

• 6:54:10Speaker 06

  And I got up from the couch and the movie ends. Now I'm out of my body and I'm watching this guy walk down the street with his little demon walking with him. And I woke up. That's how my regain trip ended. And the therapist was like, Cynthia goes, what was that? And I was like, we gotta talk. And I just dumped it on Cynthia. And she was like, that is amazing. And then she starts, she starts helping me, you know, piece things together. The next day we do, I didn't want to do the five. I was like, dude, I got Dart to deal with. I don't need whatever this next thing is. I don't want to go down that road.

• 6:54:53Speaker 06

  And she's, I was the last guy to do it in the house. And I walk in, there are three other dudes sitting there and they just go, go upstairs. And I was like, I don't want to. They're like, you need to go upstairs. I went upstairs and um, I did the five. And I immediately went to the place. And let go. When that moment came to die, I was like, yeah, I'll let it go. And I went to this place. The only way I can describe it is infinite awareness.

• 6:55:36Speaker 06

  And I felt waves of forgiveness. And I was like, bring it to me. Bring, bring me all your hate. And I was turning it into love. And it was just wave after wave after wave. I woke up from that. And Ed was right there. And I sat up and I cried, I cried like I'd never cried before. And the two of us, I just let it go. And I was like, I know, I know what, I know what the other side is. And I know where we're going. I know where they're all at. It's gonna be okay.

• 6:56:21Speaker 06

  I came back from that. I remember walking in the airport. And I could feel trauma on people. I was like sitting, I'm sitting in the San Diego airport and I'm looking at this guy. And I could like feel his trauma. And I had so much empathy. I'm an empath by nature, which I found out ten. And I could feel the trauma on everyone around me. And it was like this. I came home. Packed up and then I went to Heroes and Horses. And I spent forty days riding around on horse in the mountains. Montana. Integrating that experience.

• 6:57:06Speaker 06

  And the combination of those two things. I came back from that. Heroes and Horses was just, it's not a vacation. It's. You're, you're sleeping in the dirt. You're pushing cattle, you're doing pack trips. You're riding wild Mustangs. It's the real deal. I came back from that and. The combination of those two things. I was just a different person. Did you get the answer to your question? Not yet.

• 6:57:40Speaker 06

  I went back. A few, a few years passed. And. I went back and I did. I began again. With a couple of other team guys. And. I never got the answer to the question. And I was like. I don't really, I was really upset about this. And, but I wasn't upset.

• 6:58:11Speaker 06

  I. So back up when I came back from that first time. That's when Walker said to me. I, I, I came back a different person. I really was like. Present in a, in a really amazing way. And I was just like, this is good. And my wife was like. Who are you? You, you, what did you do? And I was like, the, it's the great, I don't know. But I'm like, I was, I was in a great place. And my friends said, hey, we were gonna play this. We want you to come play this fundraiser show out in, uh, for the Grammy Museum.

• 6:58:54Speaker 06

  And that week, Walker said to me, hey dad, I wanna be an Avenger. And I was like, dude, they're actors. And he goes, well, I'll do that then. And I was like, okay, you wanna be an actor? He goes, yeah, can you take me to Hollywood? And I go, it just so happened that I'm going out to Hollywood to play a show. Come with me. I'm like, let's do this. I took him out and, uh, it was a red carpet event and I played. And Walker was just running around trying to find producers. He's like 10 years old, pulling on people, say, hey, are you a producer? And that time we went and I took him to the Hollywood Walk of Stars and, and we walked on the stars. And, and, uh, he loves Robert Downey Jr. He loved Iron Man.

• 6:59:38Speaker 06

  And, um, I was going out there to play the show and write a song with a guy named Tommy Coster, who wrote, uh, he was the songwriter for the album, The Real Slim Shady. And he wrote all the piano stuff. Tommy's just an amazing guy. Tommy came to my show and he meets Walker and he goes, let's write a song with Walker. I was like, all right. So the next day, bring Walker into, into the studio and we start writing this tune. And it's called Walk on Stars. And it's all about Walker's journey into Hollywood. And I watched this kid just like, his imagination explode and, and how he was, he was talking about, it was the Green Lantern, he was talking about Iron Man, all Spider-Man. He wrote this amazing song and we sang it. And he's really embarrassed about it, but I love it.

• 7:00:21Speaker 06

  And Tommy goes, dude, I wanna introduce him to somebody. He's got, he's got it. And so he calls his friend Priscilla and Priscilla and I meet with Tommy for Walker's first business meeting. And she goes, and Tommy and I are kinda sitting there the next day, Tommy, and she goes, why do you wanna be an actor?

• 7:00:40Speaker 06

  And Walker goes, because when I pretend to be other people, I understand how they feel. He's 10. And I looked at Tommy and I was like, "That's pretty good, man." Priscilla says to me, and Walker had just been cast in Mary Poppins, the school, middle school play. And he's like, "Well, I'm in Mary Poppins," very proud he's playing Michael. And she goes, "If it's okay with your dad, can I help you with your play?" And I said, "Yeah, absolutely." So over the next few months, she would do Zoom calls and help him with his part. And she's like, hey, she called me, she goes, "I want to get him into a acting school." There was an acting school in LA, and I'm like, "These are all bullshit."

• 7:01:24Speaker 06

  He's like, "No, this guy's the real deal, John DiQuino." And at the end of it, they have a showcase.

• 7:01:31Speaker 06

  And I was like, "Okay, let's try it." I'm like, "He'll probably go there and..." Every kid, they're like, "I want to be a football player." You know, they go and they play their first football game, like, "Hey, I want to be a basketball player." You know, he's going to bounce around. And so I take him to the thing, the camp in Burbank. Our whole family went out for a little vacation. And I was in the best place mentally. I was just like, "Dad, this is what I'm supposed to be doing." Really happy. Just a three-day camp and does a showcase at the end, and there are agents and managers there. And the guy who runs the camp, he's like, "Hey, there's a lot of interest in Walker, can you stay?" And I was like, "We have three kids. I can't stay." He's like, "I want to introduce you to a manager."

• 7:02:17Speaker 06

  I was like, "I know how this works, I just got done with entertainment. I know agents and managers, I understand this whole situation." He's like, "No, no." So I'm like, "I'll take one meeting." We go back to the hotel and there's a manager waiting in the hotel lobby with a card. "I'd love to talk to you about Walker." And I'm just like, "Hmm." Next day on the way out of town, I met with April. And I just kind of read her the riot act. Like, listen, I know the system works. I know what you do. Not sign anything, but if you bring some work, we'll talk. And we go home. She calls me a week later. There's just this COVID starting up. She goes, we want you to meet an agent in New York. I'm like, dude, there's COVID. I'm not going to New York City. It's like the epicenter. She's like, come on, just go meet these people. They're not going to sign them. They just want to meet them. Like, all right, you know what?

• 7:03:02Speaker 06

  My dad told me no at every turn. I'm like, I'm going to say yes. Walker, let's get in the car. We drive to New York City. Go to the, I forget what floor in the Empire State Building. We meet with A3. He goes in for 10 minutes. The girl comes out, goes, they want to talk to you. I walk in, they go, we want to sign Walker. And I'm like, no, I'll sign anything. But if you bring work, you know, we'll talk about it. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, how are we going to do this? Like, there's New York and LA. It's got to be for auditions. We live in Erie, Pennsylvania. Like, this ain't going to work. But you know what? I'm going to do what my dad never did. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to see this thing through with him. And we go home and COVID lockdown starts.

• 7:03:46Speaker 06

  And it's just like the world comes to a screeching halt. Well, the entertainment industry went to self tapes. And so they're like, look, here's the deal. We're going to, you do the self tape and then the casting, the casting people will look at the self tapes and then you'll get callbacks. So you don't have to go any place for an audition. So I was like, all right. And so I built, I get on Amazon and I get some lights and I built a studio in my basement. And they start sending self tapes in. And Walker and I, I'm like, hey, you know, playing video games. You said you want to be an actor. We got these auditions. Let's go do this. So every night we'd go in the basement. We'd read the sides. And I don't know anything about acting.

• 7:04:28Speaker 06

  You know, I was like a performer, but I wasn't, you know, I was just like, do I believe him or not? And Every night we do it, send the tape in, nothing, nothing, 50 auditions, nothing, 100 auditions. Now we're at a couple of months into this. We're trying everything. I'm like, Walker, watch Iron Man without the sound on so you can understand how Robert Downey Jr. communicates with body language. I'm just trying to come up with ways to like, to do this, and he's getting better. All of a sudden, I get this email, and it says, Ryan Reynolds, Sean Levy project. And it's a full script, and I'm like, hm, I like Ryan Reynolds. I don't know who Sean Levy is at the time, so I Google him, I'm like, oh wow, Stranger Things, like this, he's the real deal.

• 7:05:12Speaker 06

  And so I read the full script for the Adam project, and I'm like, dude, this is Walker. Like this, it's mini Deadpool, like he can recite all of Deadpool. Like, he, he, he loves Ryan Reynolds. So I'm like, Walker, I knew, I knew this context of the script now, it wasn't just like three lines where you're trying to, what is this for? You don't, they don't ever give you any information, they just say, hey, you're three line. But I had the whole script, and I was just like, dude. So we start rehearsing, and we do like, a week of rehearsals, and we send the tape in, and it's, it, he gets a callback.

• 7:05:53Speaker 06

  I'm just like, dude, your first callback, this is huge, man. And COVID is ending, it's about, it's beginning of September, and I take a business trip out to my guys at Velocity, and Walker has his first callback. And when you do a callback, they sit you on a Zoom call, and then you take one of your cameras, and you film it as well, and then when, so they want the film, and they want the Zoom call recorded. He gets in the Zoom call, and they go through the sides, and you can, I still have it on my phone, and the, the woman goes, have you ever seen any Orion's movies? And he goes, yeah, uh, I've seen Deadpool, and she goes, can you recite any lines from Deadpool? And he goes,

• 7:06:40Speaker 06

  He goes, yeah, but can I say the swear words? And she's like, if your parents don't mind. He kind of waited, she see him like think for a second and then he goes, fuck Wolverine. First he rides my coattails. And he goes through the whole opening monologue of five minutes for Deadpool two. With all inflection. And he's having the time of his life because he's like, I mean, all of the dirty shit. Like, he's got it down to a T. And you can hear on the Zoom call, the casting director laughing. And I was like, I said, I get back, we send the thing off and I'm just like, I just get this feeling inside me. I'm like, he's, he's got this.

• 7:07:22Speaker 06

  Next day, they want to do a chemistry, they want to call with the director. Another call with the director, go through the lines with him. Sean's like, very, Sean's very calm. He's like, all right, Walker, thanks for your time. No indication whether he has it or not. Call back, now you're gonna do a chemistry read with Ryan Reynolds on Zoom. And I'm just like, dude, this is awesome. Like, you're here. Like, I'm like, we're making progress. You're here with Ryan. So he does it with Ryan. And the last scene is pretty emotional. And I hear, and I'm in the room around the corner, sitting on the stairs. And I can hear Ryan go, oh. And in my mind, I'm like, holy shit. He might actually get this.

• 7:08:07Speaker 06

  Next day, I get a phone call, the agent, she goes, hey, Sean Levy wants to FaceTime with you guys to thank you for your, your time. And I was like, oh, like Friday. So I get on the FaceTime with Sean Levy and Sean's playing, he's like, he goes, Walker, you know, a lot of kids tried out for this. And, you know, they were a lot older than you, they had more experience than you. And I'm thinking to myself like, dude, if you're gonna break the kid's heart, like, break it quick. Like, I'm gonna punch you in the face. And then he stops, he goes, but Walker, you're gonna be in a movie with Ryan Reynolds. Congratulations. And Walker goes, holy shit.

• 7:08:45Speaker 06

  And I was like, dude. And it set in, it was just like.

• 7:08:51Speaker 06

  Oh, my God. Like, this is. This is fucking happening. Like. This, he's number two on a card and a $140 million movie for Netflix. And he's starring with Ryan Reynolds.

• 7:09:06Speaker 06

  And. We start shooting in a month.

• 7:09:10Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 7:09:11Speaker 06

  And I'm like.

• 7:09:14Speaker 06

  I'm like, holy fuck. So.

• 7:09:19Speaker 06

  I'm going with him. I immediately get nervous because I'm like, well, who are these people? Like, they're going to be a big part of our lives. Do I know anybody that knows Sean or Ryan? So I start calling everybody I know. And a friend of mine is an investment guy in New York, Dan Loeb. Called Dan, I go, you know, he runs one of the biggest hedge funds in the world. I'm like, if he's gonna know him.

• 7:09:41Speaker 06

  Anybody's gonna know him, Dan's gonna know him. So I called Dan, I'm like, hey, you know Sean Levy or Ryan Reynolds? He goes, I know Sean, he's got a house next to me, in the Hamptons. And I go, well, he just cast my son in a movie. He goes, what? So he immediately calls Sean and says, dude, you cast my kid, my buddy's son. He's like, who's your, who's your buddy? Wait, Walker? And so he gives him my background and. So Dan calls me back, goes, you're set. And I'm like, what does that mean? He's like, Sean, I talked to you, Sean, about you. And you're gonna have fun. So. I tell my wife, I'm like, all right, we're in COVID. You know, you have like. You have to go up there and do 14 days of quarantine in an apartment. By yourselves before they deliver food.

• 7:10:26Speaker 06

  And then, you know, all the COVID protocols in Canada are like 10x anywhere else. And you're gonna go up there from. Basically, November to March. And we're gonna make this movie. The Walker and I hop on a plane. And father, son. And. We take off, we go quarantine, and first day of shooting, fourteen days in a room with an eleven-year-old, like dad on eleven, dude. But it was awesome, man. And first day, we're getting ready to walk in, we pull up, and we're shooting at a school. And when you see a production in its full-fledged, you know, in its monstrosity, there's hundreds

• 7:11:11Speaker 06

  of people, and there were all these background kids, it was shooting in the school, Walker's never been on camera before. And he's like, kinda looking around, and he's got a trailer, and there's makeup people, and he's the only, he's number one on the card today, because Ryan's not shooting. And like, first day on camera, we hustle him in there, and Sean says to me, week before, he goes, "Normally, we stick parents in a corner with a tent and a, you know, a screen so you can watch it." And he goes, "But you got a seat next to me, or you're gonna be with the first A.D., Josh McLaughlin." Josh was an executive producer as well, with his sister Mary.

• 7:11:50Speaker 06

  "You're gonna be with us during the entire thing, so you're gonna get a different experience." First day of shooting, I plop down, Sean goes, and now Walker's kinda like, looking around, he's, "All these kids that wanna be actors, who've probably been in stuff, and he's the star of this movie." And he gets on camera for the first time, I pull up my phone, I take a picture of it. And Sean turns to me, he goes, "Has he ever been on camera before?" And I, "No." "So, one year ago, he was in Mary Poppins." Now, we're in, mind you, we're in like, full face shields with masks, COVID protocol, and I see Sean, like, I could just see in his eyes, he's like, "Holy shit, I just rolled the dice on a forty-million-dollar movie where the kid had never been on camera."

• 7:12:34Speaker 06

  Action, and take, take, take, and Walker's just settling in, he's taking direction, and Sean, maybe took a break, Sean looks at me, goes, "I've been directing kids for a long time, I've never seen that." And then it just started happening, and Walker was improvising lines, and there was these scenes where, um, he was just like, "Sean, can I try this, why don't I do that?"

• 7:13:01Speaker 06

  Sean has this way about him where his set is extremely well run, it's disciplined, but it's free. And he is just wonderful. He just sets the tone. And Sean's got three daughters. Ryan has three daughters and just had a son. And we, now we had like, we're all quarantined together and we've got, we've got this kid who's just like soaking this in, man. And I'm watching, and I'm like, I remember thinking to myself, like, he was born to do this. This is exactly where he's supposed to be. And through that entire process, every day he'd shoot with Ryan. And we had, you know, we had teachers on set, so he'd

• 7:13:45Speaker 06

  have to go teach. He had to go to class and come back to set. And we were all stuck in quarantine, and we were all piled in together. So you had like the red, the yellow, and the green. So you couldn't like, you know, you can't really associate with other people. So on the weekends, you know, you can only associate with a couple guys. And we became good friends with stunt coordinator Jim Churchman. And Jim was the stunt coordinator for Iron Man 3, all the X-Men movies. Like, he's the Flash of Superman, Man of Steel. Jim's, his IMDb page is just a mile long. And he's the nicest human being you've ever met. And he goes, how would Walker feel about doing his own stunts? And I'm like, you'd love it. And so we started stunt training. And Walker started doing all of his own stunts.

• 7:14:29Speaker 06

  Jim's a dad as well. And we had this like four month, like, time together where every day was like a kid's dream come true. He's shooting with Ryan, then he's shooting with Mark Ruffalo, and he's shooting with, his mom is Jen Gardner. And Ryan's wife in the movie is Zoe Zaldania. And he's with all these amazing actors, and they're all, like, he's in every scene. He shot more days than Ryan during that. And we just, it was this most, it was the most magical experience you can, it was like, it was out of a movie making a movie. And Sean and Ryan were the, in this, the storyline about The Atom Project

• 7:15:12Speaker 06

  is it, it's about a man who goes back in time to find his father, who's Mark Ruffalo, who invented time travel. And he finds his 12-year-old self. And then they go back in time to find their father.

• 7:15:29Speaker 06

  And so you have this storyline about what if you could go back and talk to your dad?

• 7:15:36Speaker 06

  What would you say? And every day, there's scenes in that movie where the whole crew's a mess. But there were these moments that there's a scene and we all got to know each other and we all were, we all had issues with our dads.

• 7:15:59Speaker 06

  And there's this scene in the movie at the end where Ryan and Walker are trying to tell their dad, Mark Ruffalo, that he's gonna die. And Mark Ruffalo's like, I wanna know. I can't know the future about time travel.

• 7:16:16Speaker 06

  And Ryan, a lot of actors have a tough time crying on camera. But you just can't cry and, you know, crying in demand is rough. It's just hard. Sometimes you'll, with Walker, on one of the early scenes, we were using like blow menthol into his eyes and, and so he gets, he can tear up. And

• 7:16:37Speaker 06

  Mark Ruffalo, we're rolling the cameras.

• 7:16:42Speaker 06

  And Ryan is there and Walker's there. And they start the scene and Sean just lets it roll.

• 7:16:53Speaker 06

  And they're like going back and forth, dialogue, dialogue, and there's this break where it's supposed to be an emotional moment. Mark Ruffalo grabs Ryan. He looks at him and goes, you're not your dad. You're an amazing father.

• 7:17:09Speaker 06

  Wow. And when you watch that movie, those tears in his eyes are every single one of us lost it. Like

• 7:17:22Speaker 06

  it was the most, I I just sat there like paralyzed.

• 7:17:29Speaker 06

  It was the most amazing moment. And, you know, Walker's, Walker, it hit everybody. That scene is just unbelievable.

• 7:17:39Speaker 06

  But after all the shit that I've been through in my life and my stuff with my dad, to watch your kid walk into this movie and have this story be about going back in time to see your father.

• 7:17:52Speaker 06

  And the movie was just littered with all these amazing moments, but that one just sits with me. We finished shooting principal photography and in the movie, there's an office where Walker meets Ryan for the first time. And it's their dad's office and Sean says, um, I want to show you some of this. So Walker, Sean and I go in and we sit down and he's got on his laptop and the lights are off in the room and Walker's on the other side of Sean, Sean's next to me. And he plays that scene. And I just cried like I've never cried before. Man, I just lost it and Sean gives me a hug and he's crying. He's like, come on, Walker.

• 7:18:35Speaker 06

  We walk out and Walker turns to Sean and he goes, man, the only time I've ever seen my dad cry like that was when Eddie Van Halen died.

• 7:18:46Speaker 06

  And Sean busts out laughing. It was kind of, that was like how, there's so much more to that movie, but I,

• 7:18:55Speaker 06

  you know, we, we came back from that and where we were shooting that, Walker says to me, I go, what do you want to do next? He goes, I'm going to be Percy Jackson. And I was like, what? And I call the agent and I go, he wants to be Percy Jackson. And I remember he had read all the books when he was a little kid, he was super into it and he, and, and she goes, well, they're not even casting. And I was like, listen, the kid's manifesting again, whatever he's doing, like we need to get like the sides for this. So we do the first tape for Percy Jackson and goes in, don't hear anything for like a year. In the meantime, we, he gets cast in another movie called Secret Headquarters with Owen Wilson, where he stars in that movie. And I get a phone call from Jim Churchman.

• 7:19:35Speaker 06

  He says, hey, I'm shooting this movie plane with Gerard Butler and you want to come down and help me? It's a, essentially it's a, a plane crashes on a deserted island, Jolo Island in the Philippines and a bunch of mercenaries jump in and rescue the people and Gerard Butler flies out. And I was like, what do you need, like a military advisor? He's like, yeah.

• 7:20:01Speaker 06

  So I was like, whatever, I'm not working. Walker's shooting and um his mom's going with him. My daughter's uh my daughter's cupboard hanging out in Erie with Nana. It's it's you know, summer going into uh September. I was like, I'll do it. Fly down there and Sean, he's like, dude, you got a costume fitting. I'm like, what? He's like, he had said like, you're gonna be a mercenary, but I didn't actually believe him. He's like, yeah, man, you're in the movie. I'm like, all right. I go do the costume fitting and then first day of shooting, we do like the rescue scene to, you know, rescue Gerard Baller. And I just had this amazing experience. Like, it was like putting a gun back on,

• 7:20:44Speaker 06

  but for real, but not for real. It was like a surreal kind of, you know, you know, thing. We shot for a month, or a month, two months. And um, you know, you finish up a movie and you just, it just kind of goes away and then you've kind of forget about it and then it pops up again, like, oh, it's gonna premiere somewhere. And um,

• 7:21:07Speaker 06

  we we finished up shooting that movie. We come home and get the phone call like, hey, Walker's uh, we had to get on Zoom. We have an announcement to make. And Rick Riordan, the author of Percy Jackson, been a New York Times bestseller for 16 years, or I guess 20 years now. Um, five book, five part series. Rick Riordan, the author's on the Zoom. He says, hey, Walker, congratulations. You're Percy Jackson.

• 7:21:35Speaker 06

  And the story behind Percy Jackson is that he's the son of Poseidon.

• 7:21:42Speaker 06

  And he finds out he's a demigod. And he goes on these adventures. And they're all about Greek mythology. And he has all these powers with water.

• 7:21:52Speaker 06

  And in season one, there's a, you can Google it. It's Percy gets claimed.

• 7:21:59Speaker 06

  And there's a scene where he's at Camp Hapled and his co-star pushes him in the water. And he has all these powers he doesn't know about. He doesn't know his dad's Poseidon. And he's, all of his cuts start to heal. They've just done like this capture the flag battle. And all of his cuts start to heal and he looks around and the camera pans out. And Annabeth says, "Your dad's calling." And a trident floats up above his head. I'm like, shit. I'm like, okay, I'm starting to see these signs.

• 7:22:34Speaker 06

  We come on shooting season one.

• 7:22:38Speaker 06

  And

• 7:22:40Speaker 06

  my friend Sean calls me. Earlier that week, I was having a rough week. And for the first time in my life, I said out loud, I go, "God, if you're real, you need to show me because I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not working. I'm like in this, you know, it's, when you're on set, you go from being Pete Scobell to being Walker's dad. You're just, you're just there. And you're there, but you don't have a job. You're not paid, but you have to be there. And you're, you're kind of like in this, it's just, it's like being in purgatory. And I'm reading everything I can read and I'm trying to grow and trying to be positive. And, you know, like the Iberian glow wears off. And, um, and so I'm really struggling a little bit again.

• 7:23:27Speaker 06

  And, uh,

• 7:23:29Speaker 06

  so I say out loud,

• 7:23:31Speaker 06

  "God, if you're real, you need to show me.

• 7:23:34Speaker 06

  Because I don't know what I'm doing."

• 7:23:38Speaker 06

  Next day Sean calls me and says, "Hey, man,

• 7:23:42Speaker 06

  the guy from the last op I went on, the guy who told me when I go to Iberian, ask why your, why your god left you alone. Because I, I got a favor to ask you." And I said, "I'll do it." What is it? He goes, "Man, I found my mom and she still lives in Erie. And I wrote her a letter."

• 7:24:04Speaker 06

  And I need you to deliver it to her. I don't want to meet her. I don't want to have anything to do with her. I just have to have closure in this part of my life. And it's gotta be you. And I was like, I'll do it. Send it to me. So him being very squared away, the next day FedEx shows up. I opened up to FedEx. I'm not gonna use the real last name, but it says Patricia Smith. And I'm like, "A guy who befriended me on the ski hill when I was a kid, Paul. His last name's Smith." I'm like, "There's a lot of Smiths." And there's an address on it.

• 7:24:50Speaker 06

  So I just get this hunch. I text my friend Paul. I'm like, "Hey, you have a sister named Patri-- is Patty's name Patricia? And does she live at this address?" And he writes back, "Dot, dot, dot. No. But can you come over tomorrow and talk to my son about joining the Coast Guard?" Yeah, okay. I'm like, "All right." That didn't, that wasn't real. Okay. Next day, I go over to Paul's house, talk to his son about joining the Coast Guard. He's like, "I need to talk to you." He's a guy I've known my whole life, threw me a graduation party from Naval Academy. He's like my brother. He goes, "Um, why'd you ask about Patty?"

• 7:25:32Speaker 06

  I was like, "Ah, nothing. Just a coinc-- it's not a coincidence. It was a mistake." And he gets real emotional and he goes, "Was this about her son?" And I like, this, I just got hit. I'm like, "Maybe." He goes, "Oh, he knows this, but when Patty was really young, she got pregnant. My father forced her to get the baby up for adoption. And we fought, my dad. We didn't want it to happen." It was, I told my dad, "I'll be his big brother. I'll take care of him. We're a close family. We don't need that. We all live in this, live in that kind of compound.

• 7:26:17Speaker 06

  We can't give the baby away." PJ. Paul says, "Um, she gave, she gave him up for adoption and it just wrecked her."

• 7:26:31Speaker 06

  And then she got pregnant again from same guy.

• 7:26:38Speaker 06

  And that's Sarah, who you know?

• 7:26:42Speaker 06

  And now the wheels are turning and I'm like, oh my God. Like this is Sean's family. He has a sister he's never met, full sister. I'm like, this is my big brother. He says to me,

• 7:27:03Speaker 06

  you know, when I saw you in the lifeline, when we were younger, I would look around for anybody who looked like me.

• 7:27:10Speaker 06

  Everybody used to call me PJ's little brother, so much so that when he was, he was five years older than me. He gave me his ID and I used to go buy beer with his, with his ID when I was 16 and he's 21.

• 7:27:22Speaker 06

  Because I used to look around for anybody that

• 7:27:26Speaker 06

  looked like me because I thought maybe it was him. And when I saw you in the lifeline that day, I thought you were him. That's why I made you my little brother.

• 7:27:36Speaker 06

  And I was like,

• 7:27:39Speaker 06

  and he says to me, who is he? Is he a good man? He's the best. He's SEAL Team Six operator.

• 7:27:51Speaker 06

  A legend, he's one of the finest human beings I've ever met.

• 7:28:01Speaker 06

  PJ and I just kind of stared at each other.

• 7:28:07Speaker 06

  So I get in the car and I call Sean and I'm like, hey, man.

• 7:28:14Speaker 06

  I know your family. I don't just know your family, like they're my family. Holy shit.

• 7:28:25Speaker 06

  And there was a long pause.

• 7:28:29Speaker 06

  And he said, a good man.

• 7:28:34Speaker 06

  Like you're a great man. Why did they give me up?

• 7:28:39Speaker 06

  I explained to him everything.

• 7:28:43Speaker 06

  You got a sister, dude. Full sister you've never met. I was actually looking for you.

• 7:28:53Speaker 06

  And

• 7:28:56Speaker 06

  the next day, I walked around the same neighborhood that I live in. Sean and I talked for hours. Just, just everything.

• 7:29:06Speaker 06

  And um,

• 7:29:08Speaker 06

  I said, I want to introduce you to your mom and your sister.

• 7:29:13Speaker 06

  So we made that connection.

• 7:29:17Speaker 06

  And I, his sister met. And they became like best friends. They talk every day. Their families get together.

• 7:29:28Shawn Ryan?

  Damn Pete.

• 7:29:29Speaker 06

  And um,

• 7:29:37Speaker 06

  he's

• 7:29:43Speaker 06

  I was walking and then all of a sudden I had this epiphany. That those couple of weeks just flew by. I was just trying to just like absorb like what just happened.

• 7:29:56Speaker 06

  And um,

• 7:29:58Speaker 06

  I had this epiphany and I called him and I said, hey, man, something you need to know. That's a great family. They're wonderful people. I said, but if you would have been born into that family, you wouldn't have been who you are. You wouldn't have been the man that you became. You wouldn't have been the combat leader that you are. You wouldn't have been the frogman that you are. You wouldn't have been the dad that you are. You wouldn't have been the husband that you are, the businessman. Like you just wouldn't have been you. I said, God makes you into the man he needs you to be for the job that he needs you to do. And then when you're ready, he heals you.

• 7:30:34Speaker 06

  And when I said that out loud,

• 7:30:37Speaker 06

  I had this peace come over me.

• 7:30:42Speaker 06

  I sat down and I had this, like, I can't even explain. It was like the five but in real time.

• 7:30:56Speaker 06

  And he goes, what did you get out of all this, man? And I was like, I got the answer to the question

• 7:31:03Speaker 06

  that I went to, I began to ask in the first place.

• 7:31:07Speaker 06

  Why God left me alone?

• 7:31:27Speaker 06

  I did this interview because

• 7:31:32Speaker 06

  I wanted my kids to know that God is real.

• 7:31:43Speaker 06

  He is the most real thing that you will ever seek. And that this whole experience, whatever this is, is the pursuit of Him.

• 7:31:56Speaker 06

  And in your darkest moments, pursue Him.

• 7:32:02Speaker 06

  Because it will lead you to where you need to be.

• 7:32:06Speaker 06

  I

• 7:32:08Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 7:32:10Speaker 06

  You know.

• 7:32:12Speaker 06

  I don't know where it all goes or

• 7:32:16Speaker 06

  but I wouldn't change anything.

• 7:32:21Speaker 06

  Wouldn't change anything, man.

• 7:32:25Speaker 06

  And when I say I forgive my dad and I forgive Beach.

• 7:32:31Speaker 06

  I forgive them all. Made me into the man that He needed me to be to do the job that He needed me to do.

• 7:32:45Speaker 06

  Now, you know, every day.

• 7:32:48Speaker 06

  Every you know, I talked a lot about Walker, about my other two kids. Lena and you know, Walker's thing happened at a very young age.

• 7:33:00Speaker 06

  And it was a

• 7:33:04Speaker 06

  it happened exactly the way it was supposed to happen.

• 7:33:09Speaker 06

  And it happened, God put me where He needed me. Every fuck up, every mistake, every dumb thing I did, every, everything I didn't get when I thought I wanted it, He was moving me. He was like, "No, you don't get that right now. You're gonna get this." "No, no, no, I need you here." "No, I need you here." And I'm blessed on a level that I can't even explain because I had that experience with Walker that showed me that truth.

• 7:33:50Speaker 06

  I, I, I had this visceral experience. And man, I'm so thankful. My faith is unshakable. I don't, I don't believe, I know. I don't. I have something that is the greatest gift that I could, anybody could ever wish for in this experience. God is real, man. It's so real.

• 7:34:33Speaker 06

  And He's so beautiful. And I think the awakening that's happening right now is, I'm just, and that's not just me. I think it's happening all over the world. And I think things are gonna get crazy in the next decade. And I don't know what that looks like. As a dad, it keeps me up at night. But I want everyone to know,

• 7:35:17Speaker 06

  no matter how crazy it gets, God is real. But just look for Him.

• 7:35:26Shawn Ryan?

  It's a great message.

• 7:35:33Shawn Ryan?

  You're a good dad, Ben.

• 7:35:38Shawn Ryan?

  All the lessons you learned from your dad.

• 7:35:50Shawn Ryan?

  You're paying it forward.

• 7:35:55Speaker 06

  Trying.

• 7:35:59Speaker 06

  Parenting is hands down the hardest job on planet Earth.

• 7:36:05Speaker 06

  At least in Afghanistan, you know who the enemy is.

• 7:36:14Speaker 06

  Anyway, that's I came here to tell that story. Because I think the world needs it right now. And not just because mine, it's just because it I think that

• 7:36:26Speaker 06

  I got lucky.

• 7:36:29Speaker 06

  I held on. I listened to the voices.

• 7:36:35Speaker 06

  I embraced the struggles.

• 7:36:40Speaker 06

  At least it's not all, you know, getting rainbows and unicorns. Like, it didn't just go, hey, now magically floating into the never. Like, it didn't get any easier after that. And the struggles are real in that, you know, this world that walks living in and Lena and Tanner are walking into, like, it's getting crazier by the minute. It's gonna be like, all this ride that we're on as a family is just unbelievable, but okay.

• 7:37:10Speaker 06

  That's the only lesson that matters.

• 7:37:13Speaker 06

  That's it.

• 7:37:15Speaker 06

  If you want to know what this whole thing is, this whole experience, this whole human experience, is the pursuit of him.

• 7:37:23Speaker 06

  That's it.

• 7:37:26Speaker 06

  That's it.

• 7:37:29Speaker 06

  That's all you gotta do.

• 7:37:36Speaker 06

  That's the secret sauce.

• 7:37:41Speaker 06

  You know, I don't know what the right names are, you know.

• 7:37:52Speaker 06

  Sometimes I have a tough time with the name Jesus because I feel like it's been used poorly. Call him Yeshua.

• 7:38:14Shawn Ryan?

  Done well, my friend.

• 7:38:19Shawn Ryan?

  You've done well.

• 7:38:23Shawn Ryan?

  I got one last question.

• 7:38:25Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:38:27Shawn Ryan?

  Your mom?

• 7:38:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:38:32Shawn Ryan?

  What would you say to her?

• 7:38:49Speaker 06

  I don't think I need to say anything to her. I think she's been with me the whole time.

• 7:38:56Speaker 06

  I think she was sitting right next to me

• 7:39:00Speaker 06

  today and every day of my life.

• 7:39:07Speaker 06

  I don't think that I know that.

• 7:39:15Shawn Ryan?

  That means you're at peace.

• 7:39:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:39:21Speaker 06

  Yeah, man.

• 7:39:32Speaker 06

  It's, it's, uh, I think back to everybody who was always dangling

• 7:39:40Speaker 06

  faith in front of me. So many people prayed for me over all these years. People are randomly coming to me, "I pray for you." And I'm like, "Don't waste your prayers on me," you know, when you're young. And, and you know, the McWaters. Marty. I hope she sees this.

• 7:40:01Speaker 06

  She's the one that took me to Rome and Maggiorian.

• 7:40:09Speaker 06

  This whole experience, that's all it is, man.

• 7:40:13Speaker 06

  People are like, "I'm always looking for my purpose." Like, your purpose is to love God. Your calling?

• 7:40:21Speaker 06

  That's different.

• 7:40:24Speaker 06

  But if you stay true on your purpose, then He'll put you where He needs you, to do the things He needs done.

• 7:40:31Speaker 06

  And if you can stay present in the moment, and

• 7:40:37Speaker 06

  and bring Him close to you,

• 7:40:41Speaker 06

  then you've got nothing to worry about.

• 7:40:45Speaker 06

  And death isn't scary.

• 7:40:49Speaker 06

  None of it is.

• 7:40:51Speaker 06

  You know, that lightness, just the happiness,

• 7:40:56Speaker 06

  just

• 7:40:59Speaker 06

  the calm that comes with that feeling, that moment. And I've got to find it. There's times when I get spun up and I move in different directions. And I've got to... That book,

• 7:41:13Speaker 06

  like, that

• 7:41:17Speaker 06

  is like a lifeline for me. It brings me back. It's a reminder. He's with you.

• 7:41:31Speaker 06

  We're all just so lucky to have this. We create our own experiences. We manifest this. You know, we believe that. We make... We're here to... We're humans having a spiritual experience.

• 7:41:44Speaker 06

  I'm sorry, we're spirits having a human experience, not humans having a spiritual experience. And when you realize that, you know, I think like...

• 7:41:58Speaker 06

  vibrationally, obviously, I love music, but you know, like, everything's vibration. Everything's energy vibrating. In quantum physics, everything's a frequency.

• 7:42:13Speaker 06

  Yes, it was a frequency. You know, like the Kundalini Awakening is the opening of the the Christ consciousness within you.

• 7:42:24Speaker 06

  And when that Christ consciousness, the Holy Spirit enters you, then it can work through you. And we're made in God's image, right? And a glove is made in God's image.

• 7:42:38Speaker 06

  But a glove without a hand and it's just a glove. And when that Christ consciousness is ignited within you, it allows the Holy Spirit inside of you. And that's what it is.

• 7:42:54Speaker 06

  It's God, the Father is everything.

• 7:42:59Speaker 06

  The Son is the Christ consciousness. And the Holy Spirit is Him working in His followers.

• 7:43:08Speaker 06

  Jesus is a frequency man.

• 7:43:11Speaker 06

  Tune your instrument. You tune your instrument to Him.

• 7:43:16Speaker 06

  Keep that thing tuned up. And the chords sound right.

• 7:43:22Speaker 06

  That's

• 7:43:25Speaker 06

  you know, He said, "The kingdom of God is within you."

• 7:43:30Speaker 06

  He was a teacher. He always said, "You're gonna do greater things than I ever did."

• 7:43:41Speaker 06

  I think He left a blueprint.

• 7:43:44Speaker 06

  What to become. If this world was I think that like

• 7:43:51Speaker 06

  if there were 8 billion Jesuses walking around this place would be awesome. Right? Right? We wouldn't have any problems. He's the only one. I know.

• 7:44:03Speaker 06

  But what He was saying is

• 7:44:07Speaker 06

  do it. I set the bar.

• 7:44:12Speaker 06

  You guys match it. There can be 8 billion of you.

• 7:44:20Shawn Ryan?

  We can't.

• 7:44:24Shawn Ryan?

  We can't hit that bar.

• 7:44:27Shawn Ryan?

  All we can do is try.

• 7:44:29Speaker 06

  That's the point. That's the experience.

• 7:44:34Speaker 06

  That's it, man. It's a pursuit.

• 7:44:36Shawn Ryan?

  We've already fucked it up.

• 7:44:40Speaker 06

  Maybe.

• 7:44:44Speaker 06

  Maybe.

• 7:44:50Shawn Ryan?

  But that doesn't mean you stop trying.

• 7:44:55Speaker 06

  You can quit, never quit.

• 7:44:58Speaker 06

  You get knocked down, you get back up, you push forward.

• 7:45:01Shawn Ryan?

  That's right.

• 7:45:02Speaker 06

  You know, that gremlin that lives inside you that refuses, it kept you in the cold water a little bit longer. That little thing, like, he's useful. You know, the ego's not, it's not the demon. You need him. You need him in check. You need to be able to see where he is and how to use him when you need him. And then you need to know when he's crossed the line and he needs to go into timeout for a little bit.

• 7:45:32Speaker 06

  You need to, you need to be able to recognize that your body is inside of your soul. You know, my.

• 7:45:41Speaker 06

  I say, my daughter is the most beautiful thing the universe has ever created. I mean that. She was born with her soul on the outside of her body. And it's so cool.

• 7:45:54Speaker 06

  She is like. Just.

• 7:45:59Speaker 06

  Your daughter, a daughter, I would say, like, you don't know what true love is until you have a daughter. Because it eliminates that part. And it's just like. God, I. Like, I can just sit there and just watch her when she talks.

• 7:46:19Speaker 06

  I don't care what she's talking about.

• 7:46:24Speaker 06

  I'm like, keep going.

• 7:46:27Speaker 06

  Like, I just love you. You know?

• 7:46:34Speaker 06

  My youngest tan man.

• 7:46:38Speaker 06

  He's got an overdeveloped sense of justice and a healthy disregard for authority.

• 7:46:43Speaker 06

  Wired like a frog man.

• 7:46:46Speaker 06

  I love watching him play hockey.

• 7:46:50Speaker 06

  Not being present, man.

• 7:46:53Speaker 06

  Being there. Sitting on set. You know, I think in life, you have you have jobs, you have pursuits, you have jobs and you have roles. And pursuits, I tell people when they're young. Find your pursuits. For me, it was music and skiing. No matter where I was in life. I found something to slide down and a song to play. Guitar. That would, music was, it's there, it's carried me, it's been a pursuit. And it's led me to different jobs. Same thing with skiing. It led me to jobs.

• 7:47:32Speaker 06

  But then at a certain point. You realize you fill roles. And like being on set for me. That's not a job. But it's being there is a role that I want that has nothing to do with

• 7:47:49Speaker 06

  money. You realize that like the role you play. We're all actors. We're all actors in this big thing. We're all playing different roles. What role do you want to play? What role is the one that means something outside of jobs? Like, your jobs come and go. Like, you figure out your roles. Any job will do.

• 7:48:16Speaker 06

  You know? And those pursuits are important. Chase those when you're young.

• 7:48:22Speaker 06

  They'll take you places. I've then find the jobs are good, but find the roles you want. And focus on those, with being a dad or being a husband. I think the real mission is peace of mind.

• 7:48:39Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:48:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:48:41Shawn Ryan?

  You get too wrapped up in possessions, money.

• 7:48:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:48:46Shawn Ryan?

  Shit like that, but that doesn't bring you peace of mind.

• 7:48:50Speaker 06

  No.

• 7:48:51Shawn Ryan?

  And that's the real winner.

• 7:48:54Shawn Ryan?

  When you can sit with yourself.

• 7:48:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:48:58Shawn Ryan?

  At peace.

• 7:49:00Speaker 06

  The more peace of mind you have, the less shit you need.

• 7:49:04Shawn Ryan?

  You don't need any shit.

• 7:49:05Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 7:49:08Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 7:49:10Speaker 06

  Gets it.

• 7:49:15Speaker 06

  It's such a beautiful thing. And you just see all of the teachings followed to place. You know what I mean?

• 7:49:24Shawn Ryan?

  I do.

• 7:49:27Speaker 06

  I'm looking at the Bible connection on the wall.

• 7:49:32Speaker 06

  It's just like...

• 7:49:35Speaker 06

  Yeah? Huh? They gave you the playbook.

• 7:49:41Speaker 06

  It's all been done, man.

• 7:49:43Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:49:45Shawn Ryan?

  Well, Pete.

• 7:49:49Shawn Ryan?

  Think this is the end, my man.

• 7:49:52Speaker 06

  I think it is. Thank you.

• 7:49:54Shawn Ryan?

  It was an honor.

• 7:49:56Speaker 06

  Honor to be here. It's an honor to tell

• 7:50:00Speaker 06

  you this story. Thank you.

• 7:50:03Shawn Ryan?

  I love you, dude.

• 7:50:04Speaker 06

  I love you, brother.

• 7:50:23Shawn Ryan?

  I'm Sean Ryan, former Navy SEAL, CIA contractor, and host of The Sean Ryan Show. Much of my life has been dedicated to seeking truth and getting answers, no matter how uncomfortable the questions are that we have to ask.

• 7:50:40Shawn Ryan?

  But in the age of the PSYOP, that search has never been more difficult.

• 7:50:52Shawn Ryan?

  In September of 2022, the US Army's 4th Psyop Group released a cryptic video on YouTube.

• 7:51:00Speaker 08

  There is another very important phase of warfare. It has as its target, not the body, but the mind of the enemy.

• 7:51:11Shawn Ryan?

  Between clips of troops assembling chess pieces and social unrest.

• 7:51:20Shawn Ryan?

  Phrases begin to appear on screen. They ask, "Have you ever wondered who's pulling the strings?" These are the psywar soldiers. The series you're about to listen to is an attempt to answer that question, and an even bigger one. The global power brokers that conduct psychological operations constantly evolve. Technology like AI has evened the playing field, and now, in the era of social media, in the democratization of information, all it takes to conduct a psyop is a smartphone.

• 7:51:51Speaker 00

  Like and subscribe.

• 7:51:54Shawn Ryan?

  In each episode, we look at a different method of psychological operations, how they've evolved, and how they are being deployed.

• 7:52:05Shawn Ryan?

  There's a quote that is attributed to a scientist named E.O. Wilson that says, "We are drowning in information while starving for wisdom." This is a life raft in that sea of both information and misinformation.

• 7:52:26Shawn Ryan?

  Psyops are all around us. They're conducted by corporations, governments, activist groups, intelligence agencies, foreign adversaries, and anyone who knows how to shape perception to get what they want.

• 7:52:47Shawn Ryan?

  The series provides an in-depth look at how these psyops work from conversations with whistleblowers, experts, historians, tech innovators, and more. We look at world events that are being shaped by highly constructed psychological operations specialists, and look at the terrifying possibilities of where this could all be headed.

• 7:53:11Shawn Ryan?

  Along the way, you'll learn about everything from Russian troll farms, fake ghosts in the jungles of Vietnam, and mind-control cults, to the CIA's involvement in Hollywood.

• 7:53:24Speaker 06

  Do you have any people paid by the CIA who are working for television networks?

• 7:53:35Shawn Ryan?

  The early history of psyops and psychological experiments laid the foundation for what we see today in modern campaigns that seek to divide culture over polarizing issues. We look at where we are and how we got here. But ultimately, this series is a toolkit to help you understand how you're being manipulated and how to spot the signs of a psyop.

• 7:54:02Shawn Ryan?

  Before the Army's viral psyop recruitment video ends, the words on screen inform viewers that war is evolving and all the world's a stage. This series is a peek behind the curtain. Welcome to the psyop.

• 7:54:21Shawn Ryan?

  Buy it today at psyopshow.com.