139: Dating Nightmares & Advice: In The Trenches with Nicole Byer

What happens when you're exclusive with someone… but barely hear from them? In this candid and laugh-out-loud episode, Sabrina sits down with comedian and actress Nicole Byer to unpack messy modern dating scenarios straight from audience questions. From breadcrumbing in long-distance “situationships” to partners who can't express their feelings, they break down the emotional chaos with humor, honesty, and zero sugarcoating. They also dive into why the “cool girl” never actually wins, how to tell if you're settling, and why so many of us stay in dynamics that don't serve us—hoping love will eventually show up. Whether you’re questioning if someone’s into you or wondering if you’re truly ready for a relationship, this episode will leave you laughing, thinking, and feeling seen. MERCH IS NOW AVAILABLE! Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course HERE! Do you feel like your emotions run the show and react in ways you can’t control? Join the Nervous System 101: Navigating the Unknowns In Early Dating from Sabrina and Masha Kay HERE! Struggling with a breakup? Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course from Sabrina and Britt Frank HERE! Get Ad free HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Don't forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and Sabrina on TikTok! Video now available on YOUTUBE! Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formerly known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A. Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sabrina Zohar?

  Hey Nicole.

• 0:00Speaker 01

  Hi, hi, hi.

• 0:01Sabrina Zohar?

  I am so fucking excited to be here with you.

• 0:02Speaker 01

  I'm excited to be here with you.

• 0:05Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay, for anyone who doesn't know you, which you're missing out, could you introduce yourself, share how magical you are?

• 0:11Speaker 01

  I'm Nicole Byer. I'm an actress, a comedian. I wrote a book. I mean, it's a picture book. So there isn't that many words, but I guess an author? I have podcasts. I just want to make the world nicer and make people smile. And I love comedy.

• 0:28Sabrina Zohar?

  And I love that you're wearing smiles right now.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 0:31Sabrina Zohar?

  We're matching.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  When I got dressed, I was wearing the other set from this company. I think it's called Lala.

• 0:36Sabrina Zohar?

  Dressed in Lala?

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, dressed in Lala. It's brown and black checkered. And I put it on and I was like, mm, not bright enough.

• 0:44Sabrina Zohar?

  Imagine if I wore the white and black checker, we would have.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Oh, I would have died. I truly would have died.

• 0:49Sabrina Zohar?

  And like, I swear we didn't plan it. Instead, I wore my Backstreet Boys shirt.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Which I love.

• 0:54Sabrina Zohar?

  Thank you.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  They're going back on tour.

• 0:55Sabrina Zohar?

  Ooh.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Everyone's going back on tour. The economy will get worse.

• 0:59Sabrina Zohar?

  Can't wait. Spice girls are waiting.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  I'm kidding. Beyonce has toured. This is her second tour in like four years. It's gonna get worse. She was in a Verizon commercial. There's so many celebrities in commercials. It's gonna get worse. Save your money.

• 1:13Sabrina Zohar?

  Save it for Backstreet Boys. Oh, okay. Before we go into audience questions, I wanted to say, you're single, right?

• 1:19Speaker 01

  No, I'm not. I have a boyfriend. It's been a solid chunk of months. It's not been a year yet. I don't really talk too, too much about him because he is not an actor. He did not ask for any of this. He did not ask to date a woman with a podcast where she talks about her love life.

• 1:41Sabrina Zohar?

  Boy, do I get that.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  But he's a real sweetie. He's nice.

• 1:45Sabrina Zohar?

  How'd you guys meet?

• 1:46Speaker 01

  We met on Hinge.

• 1:47Sabrina Zohar?

  Same.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48Sabrina Zohar?

  Me and Ryan met on Hinge. So, yeah, Ryan, that's my partner. Same thing. When he first met, that's why he was called Tech Guy. Because he was like, please, just like, keep me anonymous. He works in tech. He's like, I didn't ask for any of this. I don't want any of this.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  And it is such a fine line you gotta dance with because you're like, well, it's my job. And then I'll just ask him. I'll be like, can I talk about this? And he's like, I trust you. Stop asking.

• 2:10Sabrina Zohar?

  I'm curious, what were you seeing in the dating landscape? Because like, I mean, it's been a couple of years for me, so it's like, I don't know, but probably same shit, different day.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Bad, just bad. And then it's a lot of compromising and being like, I think I could be okay with this. Like, this man who was polyamorous, we were talking, and I was like, I don't want to be in a polyamorous relationship. I am a jealous person, and I just want to be like, the one person somebody loves. And I understand having a capacity to love a bunch of different fucking people. But I was like, I just want to be the one fucking person. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go out with him because I don't, I started dating with no expectations. Just being like, if I have a nice time, wow. If I have a bad time, I have a story or whatever. But I just remember being like, I'm gonna go out with this polyamorous man. And I was like, I'm compromising my values. For what? For maybe a nice time?

• 3:03Speaker 01

  For something I know absolutely is not going to work because I don't want that? So that's what dating is like.

• 3:09Sabrina Zohar?

  That's when people are like, how do I know I'm settling? I'm like, that right there. When you have to sacrifice morals, ethos, ethics, values. Oh, wait a minute, can we talk about, do we have any good stories? Anything that sticks out of like, either the wildest first date? Or just a monumental that you're like, I couldn't make this up?

• 3:24Speaker 01

  I went on a date with a man who wore suspenders and was little. And I'm okay with a short king, I simply don't care. I think I'm taller than everybody, I'm not, I'm only 5'5". But I went on a date with him and I was like, oh, he's so much smaller than I thought. And I was like, I can deal with that, that's fine. But then he had so many questions about stand-up, and I was like, oh, this is like, a one-on-one teaching session? I'm doing a TED Talk for you? And he was so annoying, and he like, went to the bathroom, and it was this bar in Silverlake. And I went to go get another drink, and the bartender was like, oh, are you having a good time? I said, no, I'm on a very bad date. And he just kept making the drinks, and he goes, I'm sorry, what? I said, I'm on a bad date, very, very bad.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  He's so small, he keeps asking weird questions, and he starts laughing so hard, and then just kept bringing drinks. And the guy was like, oh, do you know him? And I was like, no. But I'm gonna forget I was here.

• 4:21Sabrina Zohar?

  Thanks to him. He's making this night.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was very fun. I was like, okay, that was, it was a nice time. I've had men get upset that I don't want to go home with them, which is, you know, on the scarier side, but also I'm in public. I'm not, I could take you. I could take you. I scream and I go, help me. Girls, come on, get him.

• 4:40Sabrina Zohar?

  And they come out of the closet. I remember once, the wildest date I had, it was a guy that I'd like I'd known. We were hooking up. It was one of those types of things. And we went to the bar. It was called The Blind Barber in New York. I don't know if you've ever been.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:52Sabrina Zohar?

  This was 2009. So this was when like, before the bridge and tunnel kids figured out, this was when like, the Blind Barber was fucking.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  When it was cool.

• 4:59Sabrina Zohar?

  It was cool. No one knew about it besides locals. You'd ask and you're like, oh, you all live around here. You started to see the crowd change. You're like, someone's marketing.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  So empathies on Instagram.

• 5:07Sabrina Zohar?

  Exactly. I'm like, this went viral. And I remember we were sitting there. It was like an L-shaped bar. And it was me and the dude. And there was this guy at the end, and the bartenders all knew me because I was there all the time. I like knew all and were friends with everyone. How many of my friends were hooking up with them? And the guy goes to the bathroom and all of a sudden the bartender, I guess he didn't know. He wasn't sure like what was the dynamic because we weren't touching each other. And he just comes up and he's like, here's a drink. And I was like, excuse me? And he's like, the gentleman over there has sent it. And I said, no, thank you. I'm literally on a date.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  On a date.

• 5:34Sabrina Zohar?

  And next thing I know, I like, I'm down on my phone and I look up and the guy just comes and sits next to me and says, you didn't want my drink? And I said, no, I didn't. I was like 20. I'm literally, I'm not even 21 yet. And I'm like, no, I didn't. You don't need to know. I said, no, I didn't. And then the guy comes out of the bathroom. And he's standing there and the guy comes down and he goes, uh, he's just like, hey, man. And the guy just looks at me and he's like, hey. He was like, so that's my seat. And the guy goes, oh, is it? And he was like, yeah, dude, I was sitting here. And then the guy goes, who are, he goes, what's this dynamic? And then the guy just grabs me and kisses me and he goes, she's my sister. And the dude just like, he just looked and I was like, yeah, we, we roll differently. And then needless to say, he just got up and left us.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  This is, but also how ballsy.

• 6:17Sabrina Zohar?

  Right.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  I wanna, okay, it wasn't a date. My friend worked at this restaurant on the Upper West Side that's no more called Henry's. I think it was like on 109th and Broadway. I was there all the time. Met this guy. He was fine. He does this Obama impression that was not funny. It was bad and not funny. And I was like, I'm gonna go home with him. Because he lived directly across the street from the bar. And I was like, if it's good, I'll stay. If it's bad, I'll come back to the bar. So I go to his place. We're hooking up. I didn't realize how drunk he was. And I was on top of him. And he was like, you have to get off me. And I was like, oh, OK. And then he power pukes into his bed. And I was like, I'm leaving.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  And he couldn't say words because he was vomiting so much. But I left my favorite bra there. And this was in my 20s, where I didn't have money to get another good bra. And it was devastating. And I still think about that bra. Ugh.

• 7:18Sabrina Zohar?

  I've done some gnarly. I found a bra on a dude's. Like, I literally went to grab the phone charger and found another girl's bra. And I was like, I'm keeping it. Because I asked him, I was like, do you know who this is?

• 7:26Speaker 01

  If it fits.

• 7:27Sabrina Zohar?

  Right? And he was like, no. And I was like, it's a nice one.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  [laughing]

• 7:30Sabrina Zohar?

  It was? Not underwear. OK. Shall we?

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:33Sabrina Zohar?

  Enough of our dating stories. OK. I'm going to read it to you and then let's talk about it.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  OK.

• 7:37Sabrina Zohar?

  All right. Hey, Sabrina, and guest. I'm in a dilemma and had a question on what do you do? I've been seeing this guy for over a year now, who lives about four hours away. Currently, he is traveling for six months in Asia and shared his decision with me. Told me he wouldn't be able to visit me until he gets back. I wish him safe travels, and our communication dwindled. Yeah. We agreed to be exclusive, but did not have the dating chat yet. We've had other important chats, like both agreeing with no children, why our last relationships failed, etc., until I received an email from him asking me to download the app so we could continue communication. We chatted and talked. I shared with him I missed him, and he said the same. He couldn't wait to see me again. Then we don't talk for a few weeks, but I understand he is busy working, traveling. I'm OK with waiting a few more months and seeing what happens than due to the connection, I feel, and our shared values. If he doesn't reach out, I assume he wasn't interested and moved on. What do you think? Thank you.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  What do you think? That's tough. I simply do not ascribe to putting your life on hold for somebody. I think it's one of those things that's like, you made a choice. You said you want to go France around somewhere else for six months. Is that what they?

• 8:39Sabrina Zohar?

  Half a year.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  So I think for half a year, you can break up. Break up for half a year and then when they come back, try to rekindle, you're already four hours away. And then this man put even more space between you guys.

• 8:57Sabrina Zohar?

  My whole thing, I'm with you. I don't think that you should ever put your life on hold. And I have a concern with if somebody, like I've dated, I've done, I don't know, have you ever done long distance?

• 9:05Speaker 01

  No, sure haven't.

• 9:05Sabrina Zohar?

  It's, no, you're not missing anything.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  It doesn't seem like fun.

• 9:08Sabrina Zohar?

  No. I dated a guy many moons ago and he went to China for the month.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 9:12Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay, cool. Like, and here's the thing, there was a difference if you've been dating, like you and your partner, right? If he wouldn't, he was like, you know, babe, I got a job for three months.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure, go. And I'll figure out a way to visit him.

• 9:22Sabrina Zohar?

  Exactly. And he'll, you know, right after you have your nightly FaceTimes, whatever. If you know that there's like an expiration and you're like, okay. But my confusion here is like, we decided to be exclusive, but we didn't have the dating show. It's like, wait a minute, you're gonna be exclusive, which means like, so you're not allowed to date anyone else? You're not allowed to touch anyone else. He's going and doing God was what?

• 9:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:40Sabrina Zohar?

  We don't know how long they've known, right? And so I think that's always my concern is like, what are we waiting for? And how do you know that when this person gets back, one, they're gonna be interested in the connection? And that you will?

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I really, it bums me out to think that this person is just waiting? And not living? And by living, I mean like, great, yeah, you go out with friends or whatever. But it's like, what if the person you're actually meant to be with is like, at Albertson's and you're like, I can't look at that person because, you know, my person's in China or wherever, or in Asia, doing whatever. I simply think that's a little cray cray.

• 10:17Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay, she said, I've been seeing him for over a year now. I guess, so here's my thing, right? Cause I'm piecing it together. Sometimes I have to read it a couple of times. But did I get all this? Obviously, there's so much missing to the situation. I think what I'm hoping here is then we don't talk for a few weeks.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  That's wild to me. If we're exclusive and I'm the only person you're interested in, I don't think you have to talk every single day. Depending on who you are, I mean, I prefer an every single day, like a nice little check in or whatever, if I don't see you. But weeks at a time.

• 10:47Sabrina Zohar?

  Weeks at a time.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  That's wild to me. Like, not even a check-in. And you can't use the excuse that the person's in a different country. WhatsApp is a thing that works on wifi.

• 10:58Sabrina Zohar?

  There's still Skype. It'll be gone soon.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  It will be gone. Zoom. Yeah, you could zoom.

• 11:04Sabrina Zohar?

  You could do FaceTime, you could do anything.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  You do anything.

• 11:06Sabrina Zohar?

  I'm cognizant of like time difference, but the few weeks is my issue.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:10Sabrina Zohar?

  If she was saying like, he wants me to come visit, or even not, if we have night leave, whatever, like every week we have like our date together.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:16Sabrina Zohar?

  Check-in, I'd be like, okay, you're keeping the connection alive.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  This is breadcrumbing, I feel like.

• 11:22Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, I'm with you.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  It's like you can have a little.

• 11:24Sabrina Zohar?

  Exactly.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  And then I'm gonna go away.

• 11:26Sabrina Zohar?

  And then from him asking me to download an app so we can continue conversation, it's like, right. But that was really, it's like, none of this was discussed prior to the trip.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:34Sabrina Zohar?

  What are the boundaries and like, and also even saying to your point of like, hey, I don't really want to put my life on hold. I don't know when you're coming back.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  I feel like this is a symptom of being a chill girl.

• 11:44Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, the cool girl.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Where you're like, oh, I'm chill, nothing bothers me. No, go. I'll be here, I'll, I'll be here. Just go do you. No, don't be chill. Don't be chill, because you're not chill, because you're writing this question to a dating show. Like, you're asking for advice on this, and you know, you know in your heart this isn't okay.

• 12:05Sabrina Zohar?

  I'm with you. The cool girl, somebody asked me the other day, why doesn't the cool girl ever get the guy? And I was like, because one, she's one dimensional. Same with the nice guy, right? That's their personality. But second of all, because saying no is hot, setting boundaries is so fucking sexy. When, I'll never forget, I don't know if I told you on your show or not, but when Ryan and I first started dating and I'd asked him for more texting.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  Yes, I think you, but reminds me.

• 12:27Sabrina Zohar?

  Just nonetheless, it was a very simple, where I was like, hey, could we have more texting in between our dates? And like, to be fair, we'd only have like five or six. It wasn't like, we weren't like in anything monogamous. And he just said like, hey, you know, great to hear from you, blah, blah, but like, no, I'm not interested in that. He was like, I'm, I'm working tech, I'm on my computer all day, I don't want a phone in my hand, I'm seeing you in two days. I'm happy to call you, FaceTime you, like, we can come up with something, but I'm not interested in the texting.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  And I love that.

• 12:49Sabrina Zohar?

  Same.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  I love that someone who's not interested in texting is like, there is a workaround. I can talk on the phone, I can FaceTime, I can do other things, I just simply don't want to look at my phone and text back and forth. And I think that's so reasonable and nice.

• 13:03Sabrina Zohar?

  You'd be surprised how many people, how much, I mean, you see the same side of the internet, I'm sure.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:07Sabrina Zohar?

  Of the like, if a guy doesn't text you every day, he's not into you.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Which is insane. My boyfriend's not, he's better at texting. He's better. He's an Android. I have an iPhone, so.

• 13:17Sabrina Zohar?

  Same.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  So we just use WhatsApp and it works better for us. And anytime I'm like, oh, sir, I need attention. I just say it.

• 13:27Sabrina Zohar?

  Right. And he's like, okay.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Okay, I'll give it to you.

• 13:29Sabrina Zohar?

  I love that you and I both met men on Hinge that were not in this industry, that are like, please keep me away.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  You both have Androids and you talk on WhatsApp.

• 13:37Sabrina Zohar?

  Are we dating the same? We should start that Facebook. Are we dating the same guy?

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Are we dating the same guy?

• 13:41Sabrina Zohar?

  Have you ever seen those groups?

• 13:42Speaker 01

  It's wild. I've never seen them. I've heard about them. And how diabolical of these men.

• 13:48Sabrina Zohar?

  I feel bad.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  But I'm like, oh my, okay. Can I tell you a story?

• 13:52Sabrina Zohar?

  Please.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  I just read. I just read about this man. He was from South Africa, got a woman pregnant when she was, I think, 16 and he was like 26 or something like that.

• 14:01Sabrina Zohar?

  Whoa.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Leaves her, just leaves her. He says BRB and goes to England. Gets involved with a lady. They start skydiving. And then he messes with her pack and tries to kill her. She survives with like a broken back. And then when the police are questioning, because the guy who owned the place was like, I can't have like, you know, messed up packs. This is my livelihood, this, that and the other. I think it was tampered with. So the police got involved, go to her house. She's like, I don't think my husband would do that. But we did have a gas leak the other day. And they looked at like the valve and it was like, there was blood on the wall, but not to turn it off. It's like how you would turn it on. And the police were like, I think your husband tried to kill you. And she was like, no. And then he also had another girlfriend and another girlfriend and was seeing prostitutes.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  And when they looked at his phone, he never sent a wrong message to anybody. And I was like, this man could have cured cancer.

• 14:53Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, what's his organization skills?

• 14:55Speaker 01

  That's so wild.

• 14:57Sabrina Zohar?

  Did he have like a Monday board? You know what I mean? Like a Slack where he's like, okay, I told her this.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  I mean, probably, but I was reading it and I was like, wow, uh, each detail was so much more surprising than the last. And I was like, I don't know how, and I'm sure there's women out there who do that, people who do that, but I feel like you just hear a lot of men who do that. And I'm like, how?

• 15:17Sabrina Zohar?

  How do you have the time?

• 15:18Speaker 01

  How?

• 15:19Sabrina Zohar?

  The time and the bandwidth.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Right?

• 15:20Sabrina Zohar?

  This is also why I say to people where I'm like, you don't fucking know these people. And they're like, yes, I do. I'm like, no, you don't. You don't. I, it's taken me, I love Ryan, it took me two years to really get to know him. And there's just gonna be more things. But like, I have been, I'm trying to remember, oh, I remember this one guy. I went on a date with this guy. Well, there was two stories. One guy I went out with, he was very lovely. One of the most handsome guys that you're just like, you're real. Like, come on. And we had this amazing time. And I'll never forget, we went back, it was like a few dates later, like we went to his house, we didn't do anything. We never like hooked up. We just made out.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 15:50Sabrina Zohar?

  And I remember once, like I lifted it, like he had like a suitcase or something. And I was like, oh, do you need me to help you empty it? And I lifted it and I saw this AA book. I didn't think anything of it. My brother had an addiction problem. So I was just like, oh, and he like snaps it back down. And I was like, oh, like, we don't have to talk about, I just looked at him and I was like, we don't need to talk about this. Like, totally fine. Ghosts me. Never hear from him again. Then, maybe a few months, one of those things, a few months later, all of a sudden, you're like, what ever happened to that guy?

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 16:14Sabrina Zohar?

  And I Googled him and I found out he had taken his life. And when I found out why, he was part of this like crazy college scandal where he had been like touched by his professor or like his coach.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 16:26Sabrina Zohar?

  It was this whole thing. And I remember thinking, I knew this guy and I know him and I know him. And it's like, no, I didn't.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  No?

• 16:32Sabrina Zohar?

  And that's okay. Like, my, I, to this day was like, man, I wish I could have supported, but like, that wasn't my job. I only had like four or five dates with this guy. But I've had that. I've like reverse image searched people and found out they had like a record.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 16:43Sabrina Zohar?

  Or like, not like a good, like not an okay record of like, oh, you've like assaulted women record. And long story short, you don't know people.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  You truly don't know people. I don't even think you know people after a year.

• 16:54Sabrina Zohar?

  No.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  I think maybe like, I think two years is like the actual point of which you're like scraping the surface of knowing somebody.

• 17:01Sabrina Zohar?

  Just getting.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Cause I have friends for decades where I'm like, huh. You surprised me with that.

• 17:07Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, they tell you a story and you're like, I never knew that about you.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  What?

• 17:10Sabrina Zohar?

  It's wild. All right, next question, ready? Anonymous, please. Okay. I've been with my boyfriend for a year. He leans avoidant and has a hard time expressing emotions. I'm a very open and expressive person. He likes that part of me. That's why you're dating an avoidant, because they like that.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:24Sabrina Zohar?

  I know he cares for me demonstrated through his actions over time. I've expressed to him that I need more communication and I need to know how he feels about me. The context for this is I was married, now divorced, and with my ex of 22 years. Met in college, married two kids. Last decade of our marriage, ex never expressed or did actions demonstrating love or care. I was often on my own with my kids. When we got divorced, he said we should stay together for the kids and I said any other reason beyond the kids. My big issue is I'm hypersensitive to making sure who I date truly likes me for me. I get that. So, first question. How do I work through this on my own? Yes, in therapy. Two, what are realistic expectations from the guy that I've been dating? Three, what are different ways that I might ask him to show affection if words can really scare him? We've been together for a year and see each other six times a month because of my schedule and his work. I'm not looking for marriage, but rather a deep, authentic, meaningful relationship. He is incredibly kind and caring, so I know if I ask for this, he can do it.

• 18:08Sabrina Zohar?

  I just don't know how to ask the right way. Okay.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  That's tough. I think she can explain all that to him.

• 18:16Sabrina Zohar?

  Right.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  I think it's like, hey, can we have a tough conversation? I'm not sure that you like me and I guess I know that you like me because you're here, but can you think of a way that you can express how much you like me? I like gifts, I like flowers, I like words of affirmation. So is there a way that you think you could help me feel more loved?

• 18:39Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 18:40Sabrina Zohar?

  Think? 100%. Ryan and I went through this because he's a little bit more avoidant leaning and there were just times, it's not that he's not affectionate and outwardly, but we had one conversation recently and I just said, what is it that you like about me? And I was like, I'm asking you that. Genuinely, why are we together? And he kept saying stuff and I was like, so you like what I could do for you? You like how I make you feel, right? And he stopped and he was like, this is a really valid question. I want to sit on this. And what did he do? Because he's not the best at just coming right out and being like, let me just share with you. And I told him it would mean a lot for me if you could just share with me more about, what do you genuinely like about me as who I am?

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:13Sabrina Zohar?

  Similar to her thing of not what I could do, whatever. That's always been my like Achilles heel is like I've had a lot of friends or people in my life because they can benefit from what I can do for them.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:21Sabrina Zohar?

  But not necessarily for who your heart and soul is. And now what he do every morning for the 30 days, I wake up to a card and he writes me one thing in there that he liked and he explains it. And that's just our way, right? He might not be the best at saying that to my face. And sometimes he will like, I'll come down, he's like, did you get your card? But sometimes not. And I think to your point, it's like have this hard conversation of like, hey, can I share something with you? My ex, like, as you know, my ex and I had like a tumultuous relationship and for so long, I felt like I was only there for the kids or I was only there for serving them. And now in our dynamic, it would feel so incredible if you could share with me, like you said, maybe if you could do this or if you could do this, sometimes we have to tell people.

• 20:02Sabrina Zohar?

  And I hear this all the time. I'm curious your thoughts when I say it, when people are like, why do I need to say it? Why do I need to tell them? They should know.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Okay. I used to be of that school.

• 20:11Sabrina Zohar?

  Me too.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  I used to be like, well, you should just infer what I need, but people are not mind readers.

• 20:18Sabrina Zohar?

  No.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  And it's okay to be like, I need this or I would like this. And honestly, you can say it, the person could either reciprocate what you want or not be able to meet you halfway. And that's a reality. And if that person can't meet you halfway, then you have to go, then can I be with that person? And I think people don't want to have conversations like that because then you have to make a choice.

• 20:43Sabrina Zohar?

  That was always the hardest part for me because I figured if I don't have the, you know, when it's like, I know you know what I'm talking about. When you're dating and you know, it's not right in your gut, but to admit it means you have to do something about it.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:53Sabrina Zohar?

  To admit and say this person's not for me, they're not satisfying my needs now means, okay, what, what are my choices? What am I going to do? So it's easier to just be like, I just am waiting for them. I don't know what they're going to do. And I would say the first question, how do I work through this on my own? There's a couple of things here that come to mind for me. And I'm curious what you did to work on that as well. For me, it would be one validating, right? Start with validating that like you're allowed to say, I'd love to hear how my partner feels about me. Then I think it's also discerning between, am I creating a narrative about what this means? Like, what's the story I'm telling myself? And if the story is just like with me and Ryan, it was just very like, I just want to know clarity. I just, I was kept saying, I just needed more clarity as to like, why are we, what are we fighting for?

• 21:34Sabrina Zohar?

  What are we working towards versus, well, he didn't say this, that means he doesn't like me and I knew it, right? And then seeking that external validation. Those are really important to differentiate between the two because one is, okay, let me validate myself, understand what's going on. Oh, I'm not creating a narrative. Okay, it's important to talk versus, oh yeah, that's my littler. Like, I feel really childish when I say that, blah, blah, blah. But what did you do? Like, what was your process?

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Mine was a lot of, so I read this book called Calling in the One.

• 22:01Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  And allegedly you read it and you meet your partner. I did not finish it. But in the book, it was like, what are you making up? What are you doing that makes the thing you made up come to life? Because it's not just things are happening. You're kind of helping things happen. So now, if I feel in my friendships and in my romantic relationship, like if I've, if something happens and it makes me like angry, like, uh, I'll just stop for a second. I'll be like, what am I making up and what is real? And then I'll ask for clarity. And then I'm like, okay, so that wasn't what I made up. It's this, this is the problem or whatever.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  And then sometimes it's like, I am the problem and I need to not be defensive if someone's like, Nicole, you did X, Y, and Z. It's like, yes.

• 22:50Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Yes, I did.

• 22:51Sabrina Zohar?

  Taking stock.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry. Would you like to know why I did it or no? Cause you don't, you don't have to know. It's whatever you want. I hurt you. So it was a lot of like, what am I making up and what is real?

• 23:03Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  And taking walks and self-regulating.

• 23:06Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, my God, walks are my, they're my best friend.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 23:08Sabrina Zohar?

  I go out, I like even clients are like, do you want to just like talk on the phone? Like, I'm gonna go for a walk. Look, we can talk. The bilateral movement really helps so that we could process.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Super fucking helpful.

• 23:16Sabrina Zohar?

  I love it. I never realized even when I would take Clem when my dog was alive, I would take him for walks like 10 hours in a day. And I never understood what I was doing. I'm like, oh, my anxious ass was regulating without even knowing it.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 23:25Sabrina Zohar?

  All right, shall we? Next question?

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:27Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay. Hey there. My name is Sydney. Hey, Sydney. I recently started listening to your show and I love it. I listen to the Why'd You Go's where you send to send questions. So here's mine. How do I navigate my complicated web of relationship situationships? And how do I know if I'm ready for a relationship? All right, backstory. You ready?

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 23:41Sabrina Zohar?

  Warning, it's a bit long and complicated. No, it's not that long. Okay. I've seen longer. I've read, I've written texts longer than this. All right, I'm 22 and got out of a four and a half year long relationship with the guy I imagined a future with, kids, marriage, et cetera, in September. We both just graduated from college. He started working for an engineering program and I was planning on going to grad school. I applied to grad school in Colorado where we both lived in Pennsylvania. Once it was finalized, I was going to Penn because I only got into the school there. We broke up. He wasn't willing to move to be with me and we tried long distance before and it didn't work out. So he didn't want to do it again.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Fair.

• 24:09Sabrina Zohar?

  But there was also a lot of other issues going on prior to that. We wouldn't see each other for three weeks at a time, even though we lived 35 minutes apart. And sometimes he wouldn't text me for two to three days. He has a huge friend group, which was also my college friend group, who always seemed to take priority over me. And he's really close with his family, who spent a decent amount of time with. I was a little too forgiving about him not making me a priority, but it was also very independent and living at home while going through some mental health stuff, which made things difficult. We never had sex. Oh, she said, oh, we also never had sex, like only three times over the course of four and a half years.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 24:38Sabrina Zohar?

  It just didn't really work for a lot of reasons, but we also never got to see each other.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Okay. For four years? What were we doing?

• 24:45Sabrina Zohar?

  I mean, I get it that you're young, but you're young.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:48Sabrina Zohar?

  That's the time, baby. You're a bunny. All right, anyways, right after the breakup, literally three days after, I reconnected with a guy who was my high school relationship rebound guy. He had just moved back to Colorado after college and he had also just gotten out of a relationship, although this was only a month ago. Anyways, we started going out and fucking like every weekend. You're making up for lost time. This was super new and exciting for me, and I also started really bonding with his roommate, especially ever I had lost the entire friend group from my college friend relationship. Me and this guy I was now seeing both made it clear, we didn't want a relationship though. He was fully aware that I just got out of a four-year relationship and he was starting his career, so he wanted to focus on that. Okay, she wrote but, and I thought that the but was he wanted to focus on.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  He wanted to focus on but?

• 25:23Sabrina Zohar?

  I was like, but stuff?

• 25:26Speaker 01

  A little bit of anal?

• 25:27Sabrina Zohar?

  What? I was like, we're going there? But I started getting attached, and I think he did too. And with unclear boundaries, it led to both of us getting a bit hurt by stupid things. So we had the what are we talk, which was the most unproductive thing ever, because both of us just kept saying, I don't know, I don't want to be in a relationship. So we landed on being friends. Two weeks later, we were drunk, kissing on a rooftop. Can we just quickly preface that the friends thing?

• 25:46Speaker 01

  It doesn't work.

• 25:48Sabrina Zohar?

  It doesn't work. Y'all still want to fuck.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:50Sabrina Zohar?

  And you're hurt, so please stop.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  And simply to understand why people are like, I don't want to be in a relationship, and then start to do relationship things.

• 25:58Sabrina Zohar?

  That's the no accountability. I don't owe you anything.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:01Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah. So they said, so we land a blah blah, two kissing on the rooftop, New Year's, and was telling me he had been thinking about dating me. We go home, have sex, and the next morning when he drove me home, we had the what are we convo again, and he said he wanted to be friends. Again, two weeks later, same shit happens and we sleep together. So now I don't know where things are, what's happening. This man has had, shown me zero emotional intelligence and can't have a deep conversation. To save his life. I tried opening up a little and immediately realized that was my mistake. So I do not see myself having a future with him, but his friends are super fun to hang out with and the sex isn't bad, so I don't want to lose him? Question mark? Ugh, I don't know. I also keep thinking about my ex. I decided that I'm no longer going to grad school for a lot of reasons and none of them involving boys and I really healed from my mental health shit I was going through. So I just keep wondering if it could be different with my ex now and we could actually make it work. All this is confusing, but please help.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  No. No. Four years? That's a great try. That's such a good, long try.

• 26:49Sabrina Zohar?

  And sex three times in four years?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Yes. That means a whole year went by with nothing.

• 26:53Sabrina Zohar?

  That's, yeah, if we're statistically speaking. Yeah, it's like, when did it happen? Three in the same night, right? And then we say it was once and done, wham, bam, thank you, ma'am?

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Maybe, but I think it's, ugh.

• 27:04Sabrina Zohar?

  I'm with you.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  Why? Why would you want to go back to that? And then this man who she's fucking and having a nice time with, I think when he's drunk wants to be in a relationship because I think that's what he actually wants and I think he's just too scared.

• 27:19Sabrina Zohar?

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  And is afraid of like losing his independence. I think younger dudes are, like, they think a woman's gonna like, I don't know, make them a slave? Chain them up? I don't know. Now let them see their friends?

• 27:31Sabrina Zohar?

  I think it also depends on your, what were your mother dynamic, right? Like, so if you had a really overbearing mother that like never allowed you to have a personality, that's like an extreme case, but like you look at it as like, oh, old ball and chain.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:42Sabrina Zohar?

  Right? Or really it's the intimacy, right? The, the mental, the emotional.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  You know what I think would be, I mean, I don't know what their what are we conversation was. I think a better question is like after it's like, I think we should be friends. I think you could say, what do you think would change if we decided to be in a relationship? What would change from what we're doing currently?

• 28:03Sabrina Zohar?

  Totally. It's a really valid question.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Right? Because it's like if nothing changes, I guess, yeah, you just want to fuck other people, maybe? I don't know.

• 28:11Sabrina Zohar?

  And for a lot of it's like, I don't have to commit to you. I don't have to deal with your emotions, right? Like, oh, if you're upset with me, I don't want, I don't want to have to do it. I don't want to go home and fuck and do it in my thing. I would say, from the sounds of it, I don't think she's ready for a relationship in the sense where it's like, I remember I asked my client this once. I said, "Do you think you're emotionally available?" And she's like, "Yes, of course, blah, blah, and I'm in, I do all this work." And I was like, "No, no, that's not what I asked. I said, 'Are you emotionally available?'" And she said, "Well, why would you ask?" I said, "Because when I asked you what it is that you want in a relationship, you told me I don't know."

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 28:38Sabrina Zohar?

  And if you're emotionally available, your response isn't gonna be, "I don't know," because then that defeats the purpose of the emotional availability. And so she's acknowledging that homeboy, that's like the rebound.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:47Sabrina Zohar?

  Leave him to be a fuck buddy, right?

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:48Sabrina Zohar?

  If that's what you want. But we're over-conflating because maybe he's giving her attention, that, "Oh, I want him and I have feelings." It's like, what? You don't have feelings. You just said he doesn't have any depth. He has no emotional intelligence. He's like talking to a rock. Right?

• 28:59Speaker 01

  I mean, that is very funny to be like, "But I want that rock to be my boyfriend."

• 29:03Sabrina Zohar?

  I think a lot of, I used to be her, I was when I was in my twenties, and not because she's in her twenties, but like, when I was young, my prefrontal cortex not being developed, I really thought, "Well, when I'm done with them, right? Oh, he can have emotional availability because it's like clay." And it's like, "No, no, no, no. That's not how humans work."

• 29:17Speaker 01

  No, what you see is what you get. And yes, people can grow, but that's the base. That's the base of this person. It could get worse. He could like, not share even more with you. Yeah, I think my friend needs to figure out what she actually wants in a relationship. I dated this man who would not say he was my boyfriend for two years. Or officially a year, and then we spent a year working on things where he fucked other people and just didn't tell me about it. But I was like, after it ended, I was like sad or whatever, but I was like, "Why did I stay?" And I had to do a lot of work, and it came down to, I just wanted to be loved and I didn't care how it was done.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  But now I'm like, "No, no, I would like to be loved on my terms. I don't want to be truly like shit. I would like someone who's proud to like, be like, 'Yeah, that's my girlfriend,' or like, 'Hold my hand in public.'" It was so wild that I stayed for so long.

• 30:09Sabrina Zohar?

  I've done that.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  And I think my friend's having the same issue, staying with two differ, or wanting to get back with a dude where it was bad, wanting to stay with someone where she's not fulfilled. It's like, you gotta find someone to fill your fucking cup.

• 30:20Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, and make that yourself for now, right?

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:22Sabrina Zohar?

  Like, if it's not someone else, it's like, I think somebody had asked today, like, "Well, how long should I stay single after a breakup?" It's like, "Until you feel you're ready, man."

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:29Sabrina Zohar?

  None of us have a timeline. There's literally nothing that's on a timeline, even if it was something as simple as like, I want to do this at the gym. It's like, it could take me a month, it could take me six, right? It's might, you have an injury, right? We have so many different variables. That if somebody, especially like, one, you have a fuck buddy that's not satisfying your needs either. Keep them a hookup buddy, get your needs met, get your dick down, I don't care. I am so sex positive, I don't care what you do.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:52Sabrina Zohar?

  But be honest with yourself.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  And also have boundaries. Like if going to dinners and stuff is too much, like going on dates and then fucking is too much. You gotta roll up to that man's house and say hello.

• 31:03Sabrina Zohar?

  Exactly.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  And then you gotta roll out as soon as you're done. If sleepovers trigger it. Like, just, you have to set up boundaries so you don't end up getting feelings for somebody that like, isn't right for you and that you don't want.

• 31:17Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah, I've been there.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Cause you could really fucking trick yourself. Oh my god, you could trick your, I have tricked myself so many times. I have dated men who have actively not liked me. Who have not liked my quirks. Like, I'm always late. God bless, I was late today. I'm just, it's very hard for me to get my shit together. I also have ADHD, so like after 8pm, sometimes conversations won't get, like, it's just hard. And I'm bippin' and boppin'. I leave things around. And I've dated men who have found that very irritating, but wouldn't break up with me. And I was like, I'll win them over.

• 31:54Sabrina Zohar?

  You'll accept me.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  My daddy issues, I'll win you over. And now I'm to the point where I'm like, no, if I feel like someone doesn't like me, I'm not spending time with you.

• 32:05Sabrina Zohar?

  It's how I am with even my community. I'm like, if you come at, we were talking this offline. You come at me being like, you need to change this. It's like, no, you need to find a new fucking place to go.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Don't change anything. Also, when you were on my show, people were commenting, they were like, you make sounding single like a disease. And I, I was gonna respond, it's a dating podcast. It's literally, it's just about dating. So it's like, okay, there's this Instagram where this lady was like making split pea soup or something. And the comments were like, what if you don't like split peas? Or whatever. And it's like, then that wasn't the video for you.

• 32:38Sabrina Zohar?

  And don't watch it.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Don't watch it.

• 32:40Sabrina Zohar?

  Don't date it. Don't fuck it. Don't do it.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  And I think we spent a lot of time being like, no, no, I can make this for me. And it's like, no, you don't have to. There's so many other people in this world. And it's okay to be single and it's okay to want to be in a relationship.

• 32:54Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Everything's okay.

• 32:55Sabrina Zohar?

  Nah, Nicole, I could talk to you for fucking hours, but this is it.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 32:59Sabrina Zohar?

  I know. That's our time. I'm gutted. I'm devastated. I know.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  If I had shown up on time.

• 33:05Sabrina Zohar?

  It's okay. We'll do this again.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  We would have had more time.

• 33:07Sabrina Zohar?

  We'll do this again. Can you please tell everybody where they could find you and how they can interact?

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Yes. I'm on Instagram. I'm on Twitter for the memes, @NicoleByer on both. My website is NicoleByerWasTaken.com, because Nicole Byer was taken. I'm gonna be in Austin, I believe, next month. So yeah, if you just go to NicoleByerWasTaken.com, my tour dates are up there or on my Instagram.

• 33:27Sabrina Zohar?

  Awesome, dude. Thank you so much.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.