How To Let Go & Love Fully In Your Relationship w/Gary John Bishop EP 1251

Gary John Bishop is a leading personal development expert and the New York Times bestselling author of Unfu*k Yourself, as well as Stop Doing that Sh*t, Do the Work, Wise as Fu*k, and his most recent, Love Unfu*ked. His philosophy represents a new wave of personal empowerment and life mastery that has caused miraculous results for people in the quality and performance of their lives. Gary is also the host of Unfu*k Nation: the podcast. In this episode, you will learn:How to approach your life in decadesThe key to a healthy relationshipHow to let go and move on from your past traumasOne of the best mindsets to have when approaching marriage For more, go to: lewishowes.com/1251Get Gary's book: Love Unfu*kedDesire in a Long-Term Relationship with Esther Perel: https://link.chtbl.com/1236-podFind Lasting Love with Matthew Hussey: https://link.chtbl.com/811-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Gary John Bishop?

  But if you're really interested in freedom, and I mean like legitimate. Inner peace, yeah. If you're interested in freedom, you should really be looking a bit.

• 0:09Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest Gary John Bishop in the house, my man.

• 0:38Gary John Bishop?

  Awesome.

• 0:38Lewis Howes?

  Good to see you, brother.

• 0:39Gary John Bishop?

  Good to see you too.

• 0:39Lewis Howes?

  You've had a lot of success over the years with many books, but this book, Love Unfucked, Getting Your Relationship Shit Together is a powerful one. And we were just talking about this beforehand. A lot of people feel stuck in their relationships.

• 0:53Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 0:54Lewis Howes?

  And they get in their relationships and they'll stay in relationships for years. And then something happens where they're like, it's not working, right? It's not working. Maybe it's a few years, maybe it's 10 years, 20 years. They're thinking it's not working. They're trying to control the relationship. They're trying to change the person.

• 1:09Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 1:10Lewis Howes?

  Trying to fix someone. And why do you think that so many people are stuck in relationships in this mindset?

• 1:18Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah, I think there's a couple of things. First of all, thanks for having me.

• 1:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, man.

• 1:21Gary John Bishop?

  But I think, I think there's a couple of things. One of them is most often by the time you're really struggling with it, you're now at the thick end of the wedge. So it started somewhere though. It literally went off in a trial. And what happens where I was in relationships is that trial's kind of okay at the beginning. You know, you're kind of going along, you're like, okay, I can manage this. It's not the way it was, but it's still good. There's still good things in it. We're still, you know, compatible or together, whatever. By the time you're really struggling with it, you've lost sight of where you took the turn. So a lot of the times with people, you got to, you got to begin with really addressing how you got where you are,

• 2:02Gary John Bishop?

  but not in the kind of typical way you would explain that, like, you know, we don't get along anymore. Or, you know, I got fired or my business went down. No, there was some fundamental shift in how you related to that other person. Once that starts to go that way. You're down the swany.

• 2:19Lewis Howes?

  Right, because in the beginning, you're not, you're not in that space. You're in love, or you're connected, you're having fun, you're intimate, or you're, you're putting your best behavior on, right? For the first year or two, but then all of a sudden, it starts to shift. Why is it, why does that shift happen for so many people?

• 2:35Gary John Bishop?

  Well, at the beginning of a relationship, you're generating it.

• 2:38Lewis Howes?

  You're generating the relationship.

• 2:39Gary John Bishop?

  Right, so you're bringing to the table, right? You're constantly bringing to the table. That is a point, though, for many people, where you stop bringing to the table quite as much. You're spending more time looking at what's on the table. Which invariably becomes, what are they bringing?

• 2:55Lewis Howes?

  What are they bringing to me?

• 2:56Gary John Bishop?

  Right, so then that's when people start talking about, I'm not getting what I need, and I'm not getting what I want. Well, it's kind of like standing in a supermarket and waiting for the groceries to jump into your trolley, right? It doesn't quite work that way, you gotta go, you know, make something happen. It's kind of like, you know, having the check engine light on in your car. When the car breaks down, it's too late, you know, you should, you want to go back and see where that thing started at.

• 3:20Lewis Howes?

  What is that flashing light? For six months, it's been flashing, yeah, why don't you take it in?

• 3:25Gary John Bishop?

  Right, and there's people who are like putting black tape over the top of it, like.

• 3:29Lewis Howes?

  There's nothing wrong, yeah.

• 3:30Gary John Bishop?

  And that is what people do in relationships, they pretend what's not working is somehow okay. They'll overcome, which all human beings are brilliant at overcoming, but not great at transforming. Not great at dealing with what's actually in the way. They're great at overcoming it, and overcoming it, and overcoming it, until it becomes too much.

• 3:47Lewis Howes?

  Or just tolerating it, right?

• 3:49Gary John Bishop?

  Exactly, that's the big word, right?

• 3:50Lewis Howes?

  Maybe not overcoming it and transforming, you're tolerating the brokenness, or the, the stress of it, or whatever it might be.

• 3:55Gary John Bishop?

  See, that's the problem with it, that whatever you are tolerating in your relationship, you'll make it okay. You'll make that thing okay, right? It's not great, but it's okay. And human beings have a tremendous capacity for making things that don't work somehow workable.

• 4:14Gary John Bishop?

  But that again comes that point where you're looking around yourself and thinking, this ain't it. There's something off here.

• 4:20Lewis Howes?

  It's where people stop investing and bringing something to the table. And then there's a level of, I guess, maybe there's some disrespectful words that are said every now and then that becomes okay. Or there was an apology, but then it's a continuum every few weeks and then it's every day.

• 4:36Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 4:37Lewis Howes?

  And then you tolerate that.

• 4:38Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 4:39Lewis Howes?

  And then there's, you know, some physical abuse that was once and then, okay, well, I'm just gonna let it slide this time. And then it becomes every month and then whatever it might be, or an explosion of emotions.

• 4:48Gary John Bishop?

  It could be, and it could be simple things like there's no real intimacy anymore. Or you go to the mall together or a movie together and you don't hold your partner's hand. Or, you know, all those little kind of breakdowns become the norm, right? Like there's just this kind of distance and that distance comes from observing. So the more you're observing your relationship, I invite people to take the case you're not in it. You're actually watching it. And you got to get that really like in an experiential way. You, we spend a lot of time in our relationships watching what's going on. And an internal mechanism with ourself about how that's doing. Which includes keeping score, of course.

• 5:29Lewis Howes?

  Keeping score.

• 5:30Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 5:30Lewis Howes?

  Is that something we should or shouldn't do?

• 5:31Gary John Bishop?

  No, I mean, the only people who are really truly fascinated by the score in the game are the spectators. The people who are on the field, they're just playing.

• 5:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:43Gary John Bishop?

  They're just, and I know they're aware of the score, but they're all about the next play, the next play, the next play, the next play, the next play. And that really is how it is in relationships. It's like, are you actively in it? And the one little caveat that I would add to that is a lot of people are in it. And doing what they're doing, expecting something different. So they're looking, still looking over there like if I do this and I do that.

• 6:08Lewis Howes?

  It'll shift, it'll change.

• 6:09Gary John Bishop?

  This'll change.

• 6:10Lewis Howes?

  Right, but it won't change.

• 6:11Gary John Bishop?

  That never works that way because it's not truly authentic. See, it's really a manipulation. Which is, people hate hearing that word, you know, like, ah, I'm not manipulating. But if you just sit with that for a moment and say, "Yeah, I am doing this so that you'll be different, or this will be different." And that'll never be the case.

• 6:29Lewis Howes?

  My girlfriend Martha, who's amazing. In the beginning of our relationship, when we just started hanging out, we weren't like officially together, whatever. But we were dating and, you know, seeing other people, but getting to know each other. I said to her at one point, I said, "Listen, I'm always gonna, in the past, in my relationships, based on the model of my parents and what I witnessed growing up, I repeated the model where I tried to please every relationship. I tried to change to make someone happy when they were unhappy. And no matter how much I did, or shifted, or changed, they would still never make them happy, which made me feel miserable and upset and resentful and all these things. And I said, "Listen, I've been doing a lot of healing work over this previous year on the inner child and relationships and all these different things,

• 7:14Lewis Howes?

  that if we get together, I'm letting you know, I'm never gonna do anything to please you. I'm never gonna shift or change who I am, I'm never gonna change who I am for you.

• 7:22Gary John Bishop?

  I love it.

• 7:23Lewis Howes?

  I will change or shift because I wanna improve or because I'm aware that it's for the betterment of myself and the world, but I'm not gonna do anything to please you. We're gonna create agreements and connection and all these things. I'm not gonna give you my best, but if you're upset of who I authentically am, then you shouldn't be with me. We're not a good match.

• 7:42Gary John Bishop?

  You need to get a T-shirt done. And it says, "It's not my job to make you happy."

• 7:47Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 7:48Gary John Bishop?

  Now, and I want people to get that in its purest sense, right? Not like you don't care for people, you don't love this person, or you're not committed to this person. It doesn't mean any of that. It means, and I've really found a lot of freedom for this in my relationship to my own wife, like where she's at is okay. It's okay, like if my wife's upset, it's okay. It's not the end of the world, you know what I mean? And even if she's upset at me, it's okay. She's allowed, you know, she's got the freedom to be herself. And that includes for me, I don't make it my wife's job to keep me on an even keel. That's not her job.

• 8:23Lewis Howes?

  That's your job.

• 8:24Gary John Bishop?

  Exactly, right? So, because that's really the only job I can effectively do. That's really the only job you can effectively work and make it work for yourself. Where the real balance comes in for me, and I'm gonna look from my own perspective for my wife, but where the real balance comes in for me is like there's so much freedom in my relationship with my wife because the pressure's off. There's no pressure. It doesn't have to be a certain way.

• 8:47Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 8:47Gary John Bishop?

  And you'll see how much of that creeps in in your thinking. Like it's supposed to be a certain way. And the real struggle is when you're caught in that no man's land from where it is to how it's kind of supposed to be in your mind. That's where the struggle is. So you're never really there for it. You're always pulling it somewhere or pushing it somewhere. And it's just a recipe for disaster, you know? We're really bad at relationships if I'm gonna be straight about it. You know, we're just bad at them.

• 9:19Lewis Howes?

  We don't have the tools. We never made, we weren't taught this growing up unless we just remodeled this from our parents. And like you said before, we either loved the model that our parents had or we hated it.

• 9:30Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 9:30Lewis Howes?

  We said we wanna be like that or we never wanna be like that.

• 9:32Gary John Bishop?

  Right, and that's all you've got.

• 9:33Lewis Howes?

  That's it.

• 9:34Gary John Bishop?

  Right, so I've kind of pointed out why both of them are flawed in their own way. Because some people think, well, you know, modeling my relationship, when a good one would be, would be a good thing to do. And I say, no, you're constantly holding your relationship to a standard.

• 9:47Lewis Howes?

  To a judgment, right?

• 9:48Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 9:48Lewis Howes?

  So this is where it's supposed to look.

• 9:49Gary John Bishop?

  So it never gets to be itself. You never get to have the relationship you've got. And it's a failed policy. It doesn't work. It's like constantly comparing yourself to somebody else.

• 9:59Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:00Gary John Bishop?

  It doesn't work. You have to be able to be yourself in relationship. And one of the things that I always kind of point people towards is say, when you're in a relationship, you should be aware, and this is something you and I kind of discussed a little bit earlier. You should be aware, whatever junk is incomplete for you from your childhood, it's coming up.

• 10:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 10:20Gary John Bishop?

  And it'll, and it's like trying to keep a beach ball under the water, right? Like you can't keep it.

• 10:24Lewis Howes?

  Can't stop it, yeah, yeah.

• 10:25Gary John Bishop?

  It's coming.

• 10:26Lewis Howes?

  What were the two or three biggest things that were junk for you from childhood that came up?

• 10:32Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 10:32Lewis Howes?

  In your marriage in the last 26 years?

• 10:33Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah, so your relationship to your parents is all over your relationship, right? And it's all over it. And ways that you can't even see.

• 10:41Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:42Gary John Bishop?

  So the big one that always come off for me was... You're selfish, right?

• 10:47Lewis Howes?

  You felt you were selfish?

• 10:49Gary John Bishop?

  No, my partner.

• 10:49Lewis Howes?

  You would say?

• 10:50Gary John Bishop?

  You're selfish.

• 10:51Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:51Gary John Bishop?

  Right, because that was my experience of growing up, one of my parents. Like, that they're selfish. Now, that's a perspective of a child. Was it true? When I look back, no. But that's what it was like for me as a kid.

• 11:03Lewis Howes?

  That's how it felt, yeah.

• 11:04Gary John Bishop?

  Right, and I had to really unpack that for myself as I got older, like, wow, this is, it's really cancerous in my life, like, it's a barrier between me and people, I never... And it became a big barrier between me and, and particularly with my mom, like, it was there between her and I through my teens, that when I started to do work on myself, thankfully, I managed to get on the other side of that, and really, just love the mom that I had, like, fully and authentically love the mother I have. And my teen years, my early twenties, that was not there, like, a possibility wasn't there. So that was a big one for me. And then, you know, the other one was my searing independence, so I...

• 11:44Lewis Howes?

  You wanted to be independent?

• 11:45Gary John Bishop?

  I'm always like, I'm always trying to figure out my stuff myself, I need to figure it out myself, which, if you think of that in the context of a relationship, is completely absurd.

• 11:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:56Gary John Bishop?

  Right, like, here I am, committed to you, we got a problem, you sit there, I'll work this out.

• 12:02Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 12:03Gary John Bishop?

  You know, I never fully was able to, to kind of be with my own fears, and be with my own perceived inadequacies, like, these things were like ruminating in the background of my thoughts, and, you know, me being stereotypically culturally Scottish, you know, like, you know, I'll sort this out myself, which is a complete crap show, you know? But so, those elements of that, kind of, like I said, this kind of driven independent, and this kind of judgment of, you know, the way that you behave, and how you shouldn't be that way, and you should be more like this way, had become a big obstacle. That, by the way, my wife and I were just dancing around it.

• 12:48Lewis Howes?

  You weren't addressing it?

• 12:50Gary John Bishop?

  No way. It's hard to see a relationship in terms of anything other than you and another person.

• 12:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:56Gary John Bishop?

  When you start to see who you are in it, just take a stop for a moment, see, who am I here? Who am I? Take away all your best efforts, and all your positivity, and all your justifications, take away all that away, and just look at it in the cold light of day, say, who am I here? It's hard to tell yourself I'm judgmental and I'm cynical and I'm da da da. But if you look, you'll see that playing out. You'll see it playing out right in front of your face. And that paradigm and that way of thinking. And my wife never stood a chance.

• 13:28Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 13:29Gary John Bishop?

  Not a chance. You have no hope against what I'm driven to do.

• 13:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:34Gary John Bishop?

  Until I saw what I'm driven to do.

• 13:36Lewis Howes?

  What made you wake up and see that?

• 13:38Gary John Bishop?

  I'd actually started to come to terms with how, one of my endearing traits, if you like, is I'm hardworking. Okay, so I will grind it out, you know, I'll just see this thing through, you know. But what I really struggled with was vulnerability in love.

• 13:55Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 13:56Gary John Bishop?

  Like I couldn't, I couldn't love this woman.

• 14:00Lewis Howes?

  Fully.

• 14:01Gary John Bishop?

  I couldn't. All I could do was show her that I cared by working harder. Right? Like, you'll never have to worry about anything. I'm just going to keep grinding it out and grinding. And it was myopic. It was like, you know, there's these blinkers on.

• 14:15Lewis Howes?

  How long did it take for you to realize you couldn't love her?

• 14:18Gary John Bishop?

  Oh, I mean, I was convinced I was loving her.

• 14:20Lewis Howes?

  But she didn't feel like you were loving her?

• 14:22Gary John Bishop?

  No, because, you know, she's from a very similar background and like, so culturally, you're very influenced. You know, you're very influenced culturally. And so whatever you came out of, you're either going to reflect that or rebel against it. You're going to be one or the other. And so I reflected a lot of that kind of Glasgow, kind of cultural.

• 14:42Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:42Gary John Bishop?

  Tough, you know.

• 14:44Lewis Howes?

  That's who I am. Yeah. You identified it. It's your identity, yeah.

• 14:48Gary John Bishop?

  Right. And the big breakthrough came for me when I realized, and it was amazing, I'll never get over this. Right? And I'm, and it happened 15 years ago and I'll never get over it. When I realized that I hadn't told my mom that I'd loved her since I was 12.

• 15:05Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Why didn't you tell her?

• 15:08Gary John Bishop?

  Because I'd went from being a player in my own family to becoming a spectator. I'd gone from being on the field and I'd taken one too many knocks. And I thought, I'm coming out. And I didn't consciously do it. It's just kinda where I went. And so telling my mom that I loved her was like it just. I remember being a kid and telling my mom I loved her. I remember holding her leg and I remember holding her hand and I remember all of that stuff. And then I just remember like me here, her there. And now I'm just gonna kinda observe the job she's doing. And it was not a great observation. It was not a great commentary.

• 15:46Lewis Howes?

  It was a judgment.

• 15:47Gary John Bishop?

  Big time in my opinion about what she should have been doing, how she should have been parenting me and how I should be raised and da, da, da, da, da, da, da. I'm just a kid. Which is all fine. But it had an impact.

• 15:58Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 15:58Gary John Bishop?

  And the impact was I'm here, you're there and never the twine shall meet.

• 16:01Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 16:02Gary John Bishop?

  When I realized not only that, but how that had played out now, who I'd become. I realized, and this was a time in my life when I used to, I'd call my mom every week, but it was, you know. How you doing it? You know, the neighbor's dog's barking.

• 16:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:21Gary John Bishop?

  You know, the weather's terrible.

• 16:22Lewis Howes?

  There was no intimacy. There was no vulnerability. Yeah.

• 16:25Gary John Bishop?

  Nothing. It was like a check, checking through the boxes. And I called her up and I said, hey, how you doing? She goes, yeah, I'm good. And I said, I need to talk to you. She goes, okay, you know. She's completely indifferent to whatever the heck I'm saying. And I goes, I said to her, I'm sorry. And there was like a silence. She said, for what? I said, I judged you.

• 16:49Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 16:50Gary John Bishop?

  For the way you raised me. She's silent. And then I said to her, I never knew what it was like for you.

• 16:57Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 16:59Gary John Bishop?

  She's still silent. And I said, I love you. And I could, like the last word, I'm getting moved by it right now. Like the last words are coming out my mouth and like my lips trembling. And she said, I love you too, baby.

• 17:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Oh my gosh. Did she tell you she loved you in between this time?

• 17:20Gary John Bishop?

  No, we had both had this kinda thing, you know?

• 17:22Lewis Howes?

  How old were you when this happened?

• 17:24Gary John Bishop?

  Forty.

• 17:26Lewis Howes?

  So you spent 28 years not telling her. Wow.

• 17:30Gary John Bishop?

  And so it all, I'm like sobbing. I'm like, like it's all coming out. And I really got like my job from that point. I got how. I wasn't a loving man. Wow. That was the truth. I wasn't a loving man. I could be your partner, but don't expect me to love you. Wow. And then when I just started to gush out, like, now I could just freely love my wife. It was like the gates were open. And I started this revolution and my family, it was crazy. I've got three older sisters, you know, and so I called them all up. I'm like, I haven't been telling you I love you and I love you. And they're all like, what the hell's going on with you?

• 18:15Gary John Bishop?

  And I'm like, I just got like, I don't tell the people in my life who matter to me how much I truly love them. Not like just, I love you, like, you know, truly love them. And a couple of my sisters, in fact, all my sisters initially were like. Something's wrong with you. Right, something's up. And one of my sisters actually said to me, I told her what happened to my mom, and she says, what are you on her side now? Hmm. Right? Man. So I got, cause there's this narrative, there's a story in my family about who the good ones are and who the bad ones are and all this stuff. And I just said, no, I've really got that I'm a loving man. Like, I wanna love people. I don't, I'm not interested in who's right anymore. I don't care. Wow. And that I love you.

• 18:58Gary John Bishop?

  And so one of my sisters was like, she would stop picking the phone up to me, right? And so she didn't have a cellphone or anything, it was only her home phone, you know? And I remember like one time I called the woman next door. I called her neighbor, cause I had that like an emergency contact. And I told her to go in and tell her there's a, there's an emergency, cause she wouldn't pick the phone up to me. And she had to go in the neighborhood, she's like, yeah. I go, it's me. She's like, you know, what do you want? And so I told her at the time, I said, you know, you have no say in whether I love you or not. And you're not allowed to fall out with me over this. Hmm. And she was like dumbfounded, you know? She's like, what do you mean I can't fall out with you? I'm like, no, it's not allowed. I love you and that's it.

• 19:43Gary John Bishop?

  And so now, after all that time, telling the people in my family that I love them and them telling me that is a regular occurrence and it's spread through the family like wildfire. I literally, you know, I talk about it like I started this love revolution in my family.

• 19:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:59Gary John Bishop?

  You know, and it's real for me now. It's like real for me with my wife. It's real for me with my children. It's real for me in my work. Like I authentically love people. And it's not something I have to muster up. It's a self-expression.

• 20:13Lewis Howes?

  What shifted for you after that? What did you start to experience in your life in the last, I guess, fifteen years? Since you started that journey?

• 20:20Gary John Bishop?

  My life works. It works. I'm guided by something. I'm not a skin bag of feelings. Like there's some purpose to my life.

• 20:30Lewis Howes?

  Before, was there no purpose?

• 20:32Gary John Bishop?

  It's just hard work, you know?

• 20:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:34Gary John Bishop?

  Just work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. But there's no me in it. There's only this identity that I've become. And the identity that you become as a human being is a function of all the little subtle decisions you made all the way there. So there's these little movements. You have no sense as a human being of consciously constructing this self. But you did.

• 20:56Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, right.

• 20:57Gary John Bishop?

  That's the reality. You made this machine.

• 21:00Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 21:01Gary John Bishop?

  Now, you don't know you made it, but if you can do that kind of work where you start to see like, oh, I did that. I changed my thinking there. I did this. I did this. I've become this. When you're in that kind of thought process, there's nobody to blame. It doesn't matter what happened. Like it matters to the degree that it matters to you. But if you're really interested in freedom, and I mean like legitimate.

• 21:27Lewis Howes?

  Inner peace, yeah.

• 21:29Gary John Bishop?

  If you're interested in freedom, you'll look at the incidents. Okay, but what you should really be looking about what it was you decided after. That's where it turned.

• 21:40Lewis Howes?

  The challenging thing is most of us don't have the tools to to understand how to process them.

• 21:44Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 21:45Lewis Howes?

  Until we figure out those tools and that might be breakdown after breakdown after breakdown and might be, you know, getting injured or losing relationships or loss of job over and over or just feeling like, why is my life feeling stuck and something's off consistently where you're like, okay, I need to find some solutions unless we're taught this at an earlier age, it's like, we gotta go through this the hard ways.

• 22:07Gary John Bishop?

  Yes, for sure. There's only two changes you'll ever make in your life. It's the ones that you've discovered for yourself or the ones that you're forced to make. That's it. There's nothing else. It's either what you've seen for yourself and what you're forced, it's kind of getting shoved in your face, right? Like it's right there, which is a lot of my work. You know, I present people with something that you're either going to try and escape from or you're going to push through, but you should know that if you're trying to escape from it, it's still there. You know, like it's amazing how folks, when you confront something as serious as this, they will fight for their misery.

• 22:49Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 22:50Gary John Bishop?

  They'll fight for it. They will argue with you for it. Like I'll say something like this. I'll say, it's not what happened to you, it's what you decided after. And they'll say, no, no, it's what happened to me. And I'll say, no, it's what you decided after. And they'll say, no, no, no, it's what happened to me. Cause if that hadn't happened, then I wouldn't have had that thought after. And I'll say, well, no, there's 50,000 thoughts you could have had after. You had that one.

• 23:11Lewis Howes?

  And you held on to it.

• 23:13Gary John Bishop?

  And you held on to it and you constructed from there. The benefit of you seeing something like that is, oh, I made the beast. Now, if I made the beast, then I can at the very least come to terms with the beast, but I could create something else. Like I have a profound ability to create who the heck I am. You can't get there until you confront and deal with the impact of who you've been.

• 23:46Gary John Bishop?

  If you can't confront and deal with the impact of who you've been, then it's just like shellac on top of nonsense.

• 23:53Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 23:54Gary John Bishop?

  Like that. You'll never have the breakthrough that you really have to.

• 23:56Lewis Howes?

  How did you deal with the impact at that age?

• 23:59Gary John Bishop?

  Well, it was devastating because it's carnage.

• 24:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:02Gary John Bishop?

  It's carnage. Like, what did I do?

• 24:04Lewis Howes?

  Right. Who did I hurt or how do I impact people in a negative way?

• 24:08Gary John Bishop?

  Right, right. And then so if you're not fully responsible in that stage of things, you'll take yourself down another rabbit hole. You gotta be like, you gotta kind of be flat about it. So one of the ways that I did it is this whole notion of who's to blame. So it's a massive part of our makeup as human beings. So if you start with the idea that blame is the anchor to the past. So you're either blaming yourself or somebody else. And that thing, this thing about who's to blame, will ruin you. Like, it will ruin you.

• 24:48Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 24:48Gary John Bishop?

  Right? And I just got like, there's nothing to blame. There's no one to blame. Everybody was doing what they were doing at the time, given their logic, and I responded in a way that I responded, given my logic. I'm not making that okay.

• 25:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:04Gary John Bishop?

  I'm not making a case for any of that. I'm just getting, and that's what's so. And when I could get it that flat, like that's what's so, I noticed there was no charger on it for me.

• 25:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:15Gary John Bishop?

  Like, nothing. Even people who have done quote-unquote "really bad things" in my life, like, really bad things, that was their logic at the time, as flawed as it was, as messed up as it was.

• 25:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, not saying it's okay, not saying you wish you experienced it again.

• 25:29Gary John Bishop?

  Right. No. And, you know, like, I went through, like, a similar thing in my childhood, you know, where there was sexual abuse involved. It didn't happen, like, a ton of times, but it happened. And I look back and it like, when I could see that person's humanity, you know, I wasn't making excuse for them. I'm not making that okay. But suddenly like, they were no longer the devil.

• 25:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I think it's, it's figuring it away, like you said, not being emotionally charged to a thought or a memory. Because when we are charged emotionally or triggered to a memory or an experience or an event, or we see something that reminds us of that, it pulls us back into fear as opposed to, you know, leading us into love. Leading us into a vision greater than the pain or the suffering or the hurt.

• 26:13Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 26:14Lewis Howes?

  And we have a decision every moment. Do we want to be triggered by our past experiences? Or do we want to be healed of the past experiences and focus on a mission greater than the past?

• 26:24Gary John Bishop?

  Right. That's great. I mean, if you were to sit down and write all the stuff that happened, and it filled 10 pages.

• 26:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:32Gary John Bishop?

  There's probably only three things in it that are what happened. The rest of it is...

• 26:39Lewis Howes?

  Your interpretation of it.

• 26:40Gary John Bishop?

  Your extrapolation, your interpretation, the kind of juice that gets added to it. Most of what's got you...

• 26:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 26:49Gary John Bishop?

  Is all that stuff. The what happened, the like, that thing, that thing, that thing.

• 26:55Lewis Howes?

  Your story about what happened is what kind of holds us back.

• 26:57Gary John Bishop?

  Well, yeah, because, you know, you're inextricably linked to that language. So however you've captured it for yourself, Europe, and there's lots of different fields that would break this down for you, but the connection between what you say and how you feel is just there.

• 27:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:12Gary John Bishop?

  Right? And so, you are tied to all of that language, right? Like, I used to say, there was this kid at school who bullied me. And it was relentless, and it was incessant, and it was every other day, and it was cruel, and it was da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Right? And then I went with, well, there was this kid who used to say things.

• 27:32Gary John Bishop?

  Which is just, because that's actually what happened.

• 27:35Lewis Howes?

  You can either believe what he was saying, or you don't have to believe it.

• 27:37Gary John Bishop?

  And all the damage was in how that was kind of captured for me in language.

• 27:42Lewis Howes?

  How you held on to it.

• 27:43Gary John Bishop?

  Very good. So then I got to the point where, like, I really realized how attached I'd become to the narrative. Like, attached to the narrative, because it justified this. That narrative justified and explained this. And so I was no longer able to get free of this because I was so attached to that narrative. And so when I broke that down for myself and was able to get a little bit of space about it, and really bring a sense of nothingness to it, like,

• 28:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:18Gary John Bishop?

  Like, you know, as cruel as it might sound, so what?

• 28:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 28:21Gary John Bishop?

  You know?

• 28:22Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think it's so hard for us to be 100% authentic in relationships?

• 28:27Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah. If you ask somebody about your characteristics, like your personality, for instance, what your strengths might be, that's what you've come across that you feel as if is a good machinery to make it in this life. Right? So this is like, you know, I'm, maybe I'm charismatic, maybe I'm hardworking, maybe I'm analytical, maybe I'm, you know, competitive, maybe I'm these ways. Somewhere along the lines of your life, you realized this would be a good thing. And this gets me a little further forward with all of these elements. Very good. So, so then there I am in life, being this way, and the more successful it is, the more I'm gonna be this way.

• 29:06Gary John Bishop?

  So now I'm more and more and more like this, to the point where there's no distinction between this thing and me, like, we're the same now. It's this, there's no line anywhere. It's just all how you would explain yourself now. What you also realized, though, was that those ways don't work everywhere. And so what people call imposter syndrome is basically just the realization that your, your shtick don't stick. Like, you're like, my stuff don't work here. And so people are like, oh, I feel like I'm an imposter. Well, well, you are in many ways, but not in the way you might think. You are an imposter. There's a you there. Doing another you, but behind that you really is you.

• 29:50Lewis Howes?

  So how do we get behind that you? How do we break down the thing that's been working for so long? But maybe won't continue to work in the next evolution.

• 29:58Gary John Bishop?

  If I'm, for instance, competitive, right? And it's a trait of mine and it's stood me in good stead. And I've created a life from that and maybe some success from that. Or in my case, hardworking, right? But it could be other things, could be analytical and it could be. And this is obviously a kind of, these are ways of being. This is an ontological element, right? Or the element of being a human being. So if I'm competitive, I can point to all the places where that's really done me, done me well, right?

• 30:29Lewis Howes?

  Sports and.

• 30:30Gary John Bishop?

  Maybe, or maybe I'm in sales, right? Or maybe I'm, you know, like I'm building my own business, right? I mean, these are, this is a strength here, right? Yeah, try taking that home.

• 30:40Lewis Howes?

  And relationships, it doesn't work.

• 30:41Gary John Bishop?

  It's a crap show, right? Like it's like this is not going to work for me.

• 30:46Lewis Howes?

  You know, it's fascinating. I would say I defined my identity, a piece of my identity, most of my life as a competitor.

• 30:53Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 30:53Lewis Howes?

  Right, being in sports.

• 30:54Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 30:54Lewis Howes?

  And using sports as a tool to make myself feel better, to prove the bullies wrong from childhood. All those things and say, I'm going to make something of myself.

• 31:03Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 31:03Lewis Howes?

  I'm going to win at all costs in sports and things like that. I started early in my twenties to translate that into business. And it worked in a sense.

• 31:13Gary John Bishop?

  Yes.

• 31:13Lewis Howes?

  But it left me feeling more, I don't know, against people than it was with people.

• 31:20Gary John Bishop?

  All right, can I ask you a question?

• 31:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:21Gary John Bishop?

  Right, so there you are. And you were having an experience that this competitiveness actually wasn't working for you.

• 31:31Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 31:32Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 31:32Lewis Howes?

  It was getting, it was getting results in some way, but not results in the other ways.

• 31:35Gary John Bishop?

  Right, so you're starting to see something there though, that's really interesting to me. And that is, here you are being yourself, but, hold on a minute. Is this myself?

• 31:47Lewis Howes?

  And why am I suffering inside and why am I going through these challenges?

• 31:49Gary John Bishop?

  Right, so I want to know is what's the thing that's suffering then? Like, what's that?

• 31:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I guess it was the identity that this isn't working. Like, who I am or the way I'm being isn't working fully. It's working partially to get certain results, but it's not creating peace inside.

• 32:08Gary John Bishop?

  All right, so I would flip it the other way. I would flip it the other way, look at it from the other direction. That is, it's fine for this competitive expression, but not okay for you.

• 32:19Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 32:20Gary John Bishop?

  And it's the you, that you, that I'm interested in. I'm interested in that because that thing right there, what matters to that thing? And so you actually point it to it. So the thing that mattered to you then was people.

• 32:35Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 32:36Gary John Bishop?

  But you see how like that competitiveness was now the barrier between you

• 32:41Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 32:42Gary John Bishop?

  and people.

• 32:43Lewis Howes?

  And when I learned the word collaboration and fully was like, oh, you can thrive and accomplish and improve and make an impact through collaboration

• 32:55Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 32:56Lewis Howes?

  more than through competition.

• 32:57Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 32:58Lewis Howes?

  And you can feel more connected through collaboration and you can experience more love and support as opposed to it's me versus the world type of feeling.

• 33:07Gary John Bishop?

  I really just got you there. I just really got you, like your trajectory, I really got it. Like, that was, what a burden you've had to carry.

• 33:18Lewis Howes?

  It was a weight for so long because it was working in a sense of it was getting results. But then at the inside, I was like, why am I still suffering or feeling pain or feeling stress or anxiety or why can't I sleep at night?

• 33:30Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 33:31Lewis Howes?

  So it wasn't until I hit about 30 when I learned the idea of collaboration

• 33:34Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 33:35Lewis Howes?

  and shifted from I need to be number one and the best and grow the fastest and the biggest to I want everyone else to shine

• 33:42Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 33:43Lewis Howes?

  with me.

• 33:44Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 33:44Lewis Howes?

  And how can we all rise together? And that's when I started this show and I said, I'm gonna put the light on everyone else.

• 33:49Gary John Bishop?

  Right. What's interesting about what you're saying though is what's now driving you is who you really are.

• 33:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, service.

• 33:57Gary John Bishop?

  Which always comes down to that.

• 33:58Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 33:59Gary John Bishop?

  I don't care who you are, what you're doing. Everyone's purpose is to be of use. Can I be of use?

• 34:06Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 34:06Gary John Bishop?

  Right, like, can I, will I die and say, I made a difference?

• 34:10Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 34:11Gary John Bishop?

  Right, and I don't care what you're doing, how you're doing it. If you can't take all the layers away and get to that and you need to get to it because it shapes everything you're doing.

• 34:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:22Gary John Bishop?

  And if And you know, to use a well-used term, the rest is kind of like the ego. Ego wants what it wants and what it needs and what the, the, the. And you might get some success with that, but you will never be happy with that.

• 34:36Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:36Gary John Bishop?

  You'll never be settled with that. And it's your job as a human being to actually disappear. And I really mean it like that, like to disappear your addiction to that.

• 34:46Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 34:47Gary John Bishop?

  And to get grounded in you. Where's your true north? Like where are you? What's your expression? If you take away all the fear, if you take away all the armor that you've built.

• 34:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:59Gary John Bishop?

  And realize that what needs to get out is way more powerful than anything you've, you've put up to protect yourself.

• 35:07Lewis Howes?

  Right. What needs to get out, meaning what?

• 35:09Gary John Bishop?

  You.

• 35:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 35:10Gary John Bishop?

  The, the you that you started with. See, look, when you started this life, like all human beings like me, like everybody watching or listening to this right now. If you go around a two-year-old, or a three-year-old, or a five-year-old, they're tremendously robust.

• 35:25Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 35:26Gary John Bishop?

  Like robust, like they get upset by things, but then they're like, okay, next thing, right? Like when you get to thirty, you're like wounded, you're like, oh, for the love of God. You know what I mean? But when you're little like that, like if you've ever been around kids that are like two, ontologically, that is, their self-expression, their ways of being are vast.

• 35:46Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 35:47Gary John Bishop?

  And they can be lots of different ways, like, and it's crazy. You watch them like flip from one, and you're like, oh, my God, that's manic, you know? But you used to be that way. You used to be that, like, fully there. Over time, one decision after another, it's getting narrower and narrower and narrower, such that by the time you reach your late teens, you're pretty much just heading there now.

• 36:10Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:11Gary John Bishop?

  And a lot of what I've done with people is to get them back to that spot.

• 36:16Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:17Gary John Bishop?

  Of like. Unabashed aliveness. You know, like, I'm just here to be alive.

• 36:23Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:24Gary John Bishop?

  Which is what the philosopher Alan Watts said, you know, the the meaning of life is to be alive. There's nothing else. It's just to go and run with this meatbag, you know, and make it do some wild things. And then it's over. You know, and you know, people have got their views about the rest of that stuff.

• 36:41Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 36:42Gary John Bishop?

  But really, for me, that's it. It's like to realize first the constraint. What am I constrained by? What am I locked in by? And it's not people, it's not circumstances, not that, it's you. What about you? And then beyond that is a life of wonder. And it's not like it's all like, oh, you know, this is amazing and I'm amazing and you're amazing. No, there's still trials and tribulations and all that other stuff and problems. And yeah, that's all part of the deal. But what's different is who's now doing it.

• 37:11Lewis Howes?

  Right. Who's doing it? And how are you showing up differently?

• 37:14Gary John Bishop?

  Very good. How am I showing up?

• 37:16Lewis Howes?

  Which part of you is showing up?

• 37:18Gary John Bishop?

  Right. Is it the junk or something else?

• 37:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. You've been in a, you know, you've been in this marriage and relationship for 26 years, right? How long were you dating before?

• 37:28Gary John Bishop?

  No, I I literally asked my wife to marry me after just a matter of weeks.

• 37:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 37:33Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 37:33Lewis Howes?

  Then you got married that year?

• 37:34Gary John Bishop?

  A year later. We waited a year, but.

• 37:37Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious then, you've been in the relationship for a long time, obviously 27 years total now. I'm assuming you've met a lot of people who've been married and who've been divorced.

• 37:45Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 37:46Lewis Howes?

  And I'm also assuming you probably have some friends who've been married for 20, 30, 40 years that you're in in contact with. What do you see is the difference maker for healthy, long lasting love?

• 38:00Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 38:01Lewis Howes?

  For decades versus those that stay married a long time but aren't happy?

• 38:05Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 38:05Lewis Howes?

  And those that eventually get divorced?

• 38:07Gary John Bishop?

  I think the statistics are something like 50%, right? So 50% of all marriages end in divorce. The the illusion is is that the 50% that are left are happy.

• 38:16Lewis Howes?

  No, they're not.

• 38:17Gary John Bishop?

  No, they're not.

• 38:17Lewis Howes?

  Maybe 15% or something.

• 38:19Gary John Bishop?

  Maybe, right? And we don't really know. I mean, like, if you went and polled everybody, you might be even shocked.

• 38:25Lewis Howes?

  It's 5% or something.

• 38:26Gary John Bishop?

  Maybe, right?

• 38:27Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, why are they so challenging to to be healthy and happy long term for so many people?

• 38:31Gary John Bishop?

  Well, I think part of the deal is the bar's very low. So the bar's something like we get along. Like that's it, I've got T-shirts I get along with.

• 38:39Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 38:41Gary John Bishop?

  So then, what's it really all about? If that's the struggle, if the struggle is to get along, like I said, that's a very low bar.

• 38:50Lewis Howes?

  Get along with lots of people.

• 38:51Gary John Bishop?

  Right, right. I mean, I get along with a person who, you know, makes my coffee at Starbucks, right? You know, I mean, but really what I've found to be the case, and it's not, I'm not looking at like particular people for examples, right? But I'm gonna look at like, what keeps a human being involved in anything, right? So, like, why does somebody, like, so I love to play guitar, why? Right, why? Because I engage with that thing, I'm curious about that thing, I wanna get better at that thing, I like how it feels when I accomplish something in that thing. If you take that in any aspect of your life, the same thing holds true. So, my relationship with my wife is a function of who I am in it. And I need to keep bringing that to it.

• 39:35Gary John Bishop?

  And that's, there's no time when this is a done deal. You know, I have to keep showing up here, not for like, for longevity, which is, I think, where a lot of people get messed up. People look at the relationship, like, well, I can't do this for the rest of your life, the rest of my life, and I'm like, well, you don't have to.

• 39:50Lewis Howes?

  Just do it today.

• 39:51Gary John Bishop?

  Right, like, right, it's like being on a diet. I don't need to go on a diet for three months, I just need to be on it right now.

• 39:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 39:56Gary John Bishop?

  And it is moment to moment to moment to moment to moment, because that's really all you have. But so, what I do notice is that the areas of life where you are flourishing most, there is some profound relationship you have between what you say and what you do. There's a profundity at play. So if you look at any area you're successful, you are literally doing what you said you would do, even when what, I don't feel like it. Right. Marriage is the same. Marriage is the same. Marriage, and I talk about this in the book, I say, especially in the western world, but you look at, and I'm using marriage as kind of a model, but applies to all relationships.

• 40:40Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 40:41Gary John Bishop?

  But in a marriage, there's this ceremony, there's this coming together.

• 40:44Lewis Howes?

  Where you make an agreement, a commitment.

• 40:46Gary John Bishop?

  Very good.

• 40:47Lewis Howes?

  And you use words.

• 40:48Gary John Bishop?

  And it's a vow.

• 40:49Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 40:49Gary John Bishop?

  Right. And, and I talk about the bankruptcy of the vow in a marriage, because nobody vows anything anymore.

• 40:55Lewis Howes?

  Or they vow it, but they don't live up to the...

• 40:57Gary John Bishop?

  Well, because they don't have a relationship to a vow. So we're not going around our life going, "I vowed to meet you at three o'clock."

• 41:03Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 41:04Gary John Bishop?

  Right, nobody's saying that. But 200 years ago, when you vowed something, the American Declaration of Independence is just people vowing. They brought something in the existence on the strength of what they said.

• 41:16Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 41:16Gary John Bishop?

  There was no fighting. Well, there was some fighting. But they created a nation from words.

• 41:23Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:23Gary John Bishop?

  Right. I mean, that's what that is. That's like, well, it was a declaration, right? That we're declaring we're independent. "What do you mean you're independent?" Well, we just declared it, so we are.

• 41:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:32Gary John Bishop?

  And we vow our lives and our sacred honor. And most of those people gave, literally gave their life for that. They literally gave their life to that promise. I bet they were scared.

• 41:46Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 41:46Gary John Bishop?

  I bet they were intimidated. But their word was greater than that experience of themselves. That's the same in any area of your life. But you have to start realizing that what you say is a big deal. And what you say to yourself is a big deal. A lifetime of constantly bending, shaping, and breaking your word to yourself will leave you with a diminished relationship to you. You'll never do great things because somewhere in there, you think you're full of it. Because you've broken your word to yourself so many times.

• 42:17Lewis Howes?

  You're out of integrity with yourself.

• 42:18Gary John Bishop?

  Very good. There's no, there's no power to those words anymore.

• 42:21Lewis Howes?

  What happens when we are out of integrity so consistently with ourself, or even one time with our word? What happens to ourselves?

• 42:27Gary John Bishop?

  Well, I mean, you gotta start relating to what you say like it's important.

• 42:32Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:33Gary John Bishop?

  Just like it's important. Start there. Like, I said I was gonna, and this is important, not because the thing's important, but what's, what I said to myself and my relationship to that thing. Is what's important.

• 42:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:49Gary John Bishop?

  So, any area in life, like I said earlier, where you're powerful or successful, you'll see you have a very strong relationship to what you said, very strong one. Sometimes.

• 42:58Lewis Howes?

  You're committed to that thing.

• 42:59Gary John Bishop?

  There's just no question for you. Like, it's on like Donkey Kong, you know, you're just doing it.

• 43:04Lewis Howes?

  Why is it easier in some areas of life than it is in others to be consistent with what you say?

• 43:09Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 43:10Lewis Howes?

  And what you wanna do.

• 43:10Gary John Bishop?

  Right, and that's eventually, it's great that you kind of put it that way because that's the path you'll follow.

• 43:16Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 43:16Gary John Bishop?

  But the real strength of you is when you can say something, like for instance, when I was in my mid 40s, you know, I said, I'm gonna produce authentic wealth.

• 43:28Lewis Howes?

  What's the difference between authentic and inauthentic?

• 43:31Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah, I'm doing it for that, not for anything about me.

• 43:34Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 43:35Gary John Bishop?

  Which was wild for me because everything up to that point about money was all about fixing something about me or my life. And I was just doing it to see if I could do it, which I'd never done before. And I'd never fully given it that attention, like, just for that. And so I put a number on it, which was a crazy number for that time in my life, like crazy number, like.

• 43:57Lewis Howes?

  For your 40s or what, how much you wanna make?

• 43:58Gary John Bishop?

  I was 45, yeah, and I said, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna use my 50s for that. And I'm gonna produce it, right? I produced it by the time I was 52, and I only really started when I was 48. So I did it really fast.

• 44:14Lewis Howes?

  The amount of money that you wanted to make?

• 44:15Gary John Bishop?

  The amount of money that I said, but it was wild because I had no attachment to it.

• 44:19Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean?

• 44:20Gary John Bishop?

  Like, there was no emotion in it for me, there was no, like, desperation, no, like, I gotta do it, and no burning. It was just like, I said I was gonna do it, and I'm doing it.

• 44:27Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:28Gary John Bishop?

  And so I ended up with this really kind of flat relationship between my words and my actions. Like, it was flat, like, there were days when I felt like doing it, and there were days when I didn't feel like doing it. But the interesting thing for me was, when I declared it, when I said I was gonna do it, like, the Declaration of Independence, I had no idea how I was gonna do something like that.

• 44:48Lewis Howes?

  No, you're just different.

• 44:49Gary John Bishop?

  Like, I don't know how you even, I'm not a money guy, you know, I'm not. But now it's game on because I created the top of the mountain in my speaking. So I spoke the top of the mountain, the existence.

• 45:02Lewis Howes?

  And then you figured out how along the way.

• 45:03Gary John Bishop?

  But that's now the game now. The game, people say, well, you know, how do you even do such a thing? Well, that's the first question. How do you even do such a thing, you know? And you might have to engage with that question for two years, or three years or four years, but you've got to be actively resolving some of that stuff for yourself. Well, it's the same in love. Like, I'm committed to the most loving, passionate and adventurous relationship that's possible. That's the top of the mountain. The top of the mountain speaks to me every day. It's, I can tell whether I'm walking that path or not. That influences this. It's not even necessarily about that. It's more about what that does with this. Well, how does that shape me today?

• 45:48Gary John Bishop?

  How does that, am I lining up with what I said or not? And if I'm not, I might have a lot of reasons, excuses and justifications for that, but at the same time, am I gonna treat that like it matters to me? Or am I gonna just be like, well, you know, so far so good, or it's been a tough week, or, you know, there's a lot in my mind? Or, you know, are you being a jerk? Why am I loving with you? Because I said I would. And that's what matters to me. That's what matters, that I said I would matters to me.

• 46:20Lewis Howes?

  Someone once told me that the key to his success in relationships was eighty percent of it was who you choose.

• 46:29Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 46:29Lewis Howes?

  Eighty percent of the relationship's success is, you know, how you match well with the person you're choosing.

• 46:34Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 46:35Lewis Howes?

  You only spent, I guess, a year with the person that you chose.

• 46:38Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 46:39Lewis Howes?

  Did you know that when you were choosing this person? Do you were like, okay, I feel like we're gonna be in a great alignment with our values and our vision?

• 46:46Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 46:46Lewis Howes?

  Our lifestyle? Or was it more of just a feeling that you felt connected to this person and you decided?

• 46:51Gary John Bishop?

  I did what everybody does, right? What everybody does is they get in a relationship because they feel as if this person resolves something about themselves.

• 46:59Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:00Gary John Bishop?

  That's what I did. And so there was something about this woman that I thought, wow, like being with her, everything seems right. Like I feel good about me.

• 47:10Lewis Howes?

  I didn't feel good and thought about her.

• 47:11Gary John Bishop?

  Right, I like, like, there's something getting fixed here. So, no, I'm, I'm not that pragmatic.

• 47:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 47:17Gary John Bishop?

  And I think most people aren't that pragmatic. And I think there's an illusion out there that somehow you'll find the one. And really, I feel as if the job is to explore what's possible between you and this person. Whoever that person is, and their potential and your potential. And so it was less about having, like, finding something that matched up with me, which I, I don't know if that would work for me. Might work for some people, but I don't know if that would work for me. What was really captivating for me at the time was being with her had me feel a lot better about me. And I think I really fundamentally believe that that's what most people go into relationships for.

• 47:57Lewis Howes?

  Is that the right thing to look at, or is it?

• 47:59Gary John Bishop?

  No, that's an absolute.

• 48:01Lewis Howes?

  It's a recipe, because then you're always relying on that person to make you happier.

• 48:04Gary John Bishop?

  Well, because whatever that thing is that they satisfy for you is something you haven't sorted out for yourself yet.

• 48:10Lewis Howes?

  Right. So eventually you're gonna have to do that. Otherwise, you're always needing that from someone else.

• 48:15Gary John Bishop?

  Right. So you go in there and they're the solution. And you end it with the notion that they were the problem.

• 48:23Lewis Howes?

  Ah, wow.

• 48:25Gary John Bishop?

  And what's consistent in all of that is you.

• 48:27Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 48:28Gary John Bishop?

  I mean, I don't know if anybody's ever noticed this, but in every crappy relationship you've ever had, it's got one common denominator.

• 48:35Lewis Howes?

  That's you.

• 48:35Gary John Bishop?

  Right. It's always you.

• 48:37Lewis Howes?

  This is a big awakening I had after my previous relationship ended. I was like, man, it's been ten, fifteen years of relationships that, that, that started and then that crumbled in some way or that fell apart. And the, the core of all those things was me.

• 48:52Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 48:53Lewis Howes?

  Was my choices, was my getting into, attracting those relationships, was this commitment to those relationships, was the unwinding of those commitment, those relationships. And so why was I choosing these types of relationships? What was unresolved within me that I get to take a look at now? Keep repeating this pattern until I address the thing inside of me.

• 49:15Gary John Bishop?

  Right. So what's great about your kind of pathway, if you like, you can't, first of all, you've got to be able to look at that distinct from blame, right? And I know a lot of people just heard what you said and thought, well, but what if it is them, right? I know a lot of people, people sitting there right now going, dang, I did say that to myself. And I say, well, if you take away like who's to blame.

• 49:38Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 49:38Gary John Bishop?

  And so sometimes people say stuff like, why do I keep attracting these kinds of people? And I say, well, what if it's not attraction? What if you are literally looking for them? What if it's you're seeking something about that person that initially solves what you're dealing with? Right? But will allow it to keep perpetuating.

• 50:01Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:01Gary John Bishop?

  Like it keeps showing up and showing up. I call that an identity relationship. There's something about you. And it's the same for the other person.

• 50:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 50:11Gary John Bishop?

  That when you get past all the stuff, whatever's incomplete will keep getting activated there. Or keep showing up. So when you, when you start to see it like, oh, these are just two human beings. Doing what human beings do, then it's, it's not personal. Which is radical when you get it like that, like it's not personal. It's not personally them, personally me. Like, these are just two beings trying to work this out. And what, work what out will essentially work themselves out.

• 50:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:45Gary John Bishop?

  So that's why I insist with people, the greatest work you'll ever do, you'll ever do, is to get complete with your first 20 years of life.

• 50:55Lewis Howes?

  So true.

• 50:56Gary John Bishop?

  First 20 years. Because everything after that is a reflection of it. I spent 20, I spent 26 years in Glasgow, 26 years. I've been longer here.

• 51:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 51:07Gary John Bishop?

  And I still identify with that like it's me, but I've been longer here. And it's some of the colloquialisms and the traditions and the, like, I identify with that because it became so imprinted, you know? And in my second book, I talked about, you're the little magic sponge. And you, you're, you're, you're not soaking up all of life, you're soaking up the bits. And then when you hit about 20, that little sponge just hardens. And whatever's in there. That's it.

• 51:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:40Gary John Bishop?

  It's in there. And that's what you use.

• 51:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 51:43Gary John Bishop?

  That logic. And until you awaken to that and realize that all of that that's there is really only a potential you.

• 51:53Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:54Gary John Bishop?

  There's so much more. If you think about it like quantum physics. Right, like multiple universes, endless universes, all happening at the same time, multiple potentials. Well, that's every second of your life. Every second of your life. There's a myriad of potential yous that could be talking right now. And what you typically do is the you that you did the second before.

• 52:19Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:19Gary John Bishop?

  And the second before and the second. And so it perpetuates.

• 52:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:24Gary John Bishop?

  Until you get aware, until you start to be like, oh, I'm not stuck with this. I could literally be somebody else when?

• 52:31Lewis Howes?

  Right now, yeah.

• 52:32Gary John Bishop?

  Right now, I could be somebody else. Right now, I could say something else.

• 52:35Lewis Howes?

  So how many things did you realize in your first 20 years of life that you needed to deal with or face? Or integrate a healing journey?

• 52:44Gary John Bishop?

  I think all of it.

• 52:46Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 52:46Gary John Bishop?

  I really think all of it. I think I had to come to terms with, like when I was really young, I felt as if I was too small.

• 52:52Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 52:53Gary John Bishop?

  Built in underneath with that was I'm not strong.

• 52:56Lewis Howes?

  Right, I'm weak, I'm not enough, I'm being picked on, I'm, yeah.

• 52:59Gary John Bishop?

  So there's all of that.

• 53:00Lewis Howes?

  And then I'm not lovable, and then I'm, yeah.

• 53:01Gary John Bishop?

  Then there's a whole, and then for me, it was I'm not smart enough.

• 53:04Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm, that was mine too.

• 53:05Gary John Bishop?

  And I'll never be smart enough. So, see, that's the thing with these things. At that part of your life, it's not that I'm not lovable, that I'm not smart enough, that I'm not strong enough. It's that I'll never be that way.

• 53:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 53:17Gary John Bishop?

  I'll never be that way.

• 53:18Lewis Howes?

  It seems daunting, like you'll, yeah.

• 53:20Gary John Bishop?

  Right, right. So all of your persona and your personality is designed for you to overcome that.

• 53:25Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 53:26Gary John Bishop?

  But that can't go away. Because if that goes away, if you base your whole personality on that.

• 53:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, your identity is based on that.

• 53:35Gary John Bishop?

  Now, now you're just facing a crisis because now it's like everything that I base myself on, what if it's not true, then who am I? And people go nuts with that stuff. And I say, well, take a breath and think of it like who you are.

• 53:52Gary John Bishop?

  Is a moment of time. And in any moment of time, there's the possibility of you expressing something new that you've never expressed before.

• 54:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 54:02Gary John Bishop?

  Something that's not based on anything other than the moment you're in. It's not based on a previous logic, it's not based... It's like literally an opportunity for you to show up as something new of your own creation. Everybody has a possibility, everybody has the opportunity for that. And it is a way of living life. It's, and it's not like, oh, this guy's found the secret to everything. No. I'm a human being too. I'm wired a certain way. It's there now.

• 54:34Gary John Bishop?

  The question is, how aware of that am I? And how responsible can I be for that playing out in my life? Am I gonna own that, or is that gonna own me?

• 54:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:45Gary John Bishop?

  And that's, that's, that's the space we all wanna be in. It's a, it's a space called choice.

• 54:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:50Gary John Bishop?

  And it's a real choice.

• 54:51Lewis Howes?

  What do you wish you would have done differently in the first few years of your relationship? With your wife? Would you have had different conversations? Would you have created different agreements? Uh, to cause less kind of friction or pain or stress in the first decade, I guess, until you started to unwind your identity and tap more into this loving being as opposed to this hardworking being that cared for her?

• 55:14Gary John Bishop?

  Well, in the first few years of my life, it was very passionate. So I was, I was crazy about this girl, you know, like it was very passionate and this was a time in my life when I was a musician. So, you know, I'm playing in a band. And there's this beautiful woman who loves me. You know, like life is

• 55:31Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 55:32Gary John Bishop?

  Life is good, man. You know, we, we've got three sons now, but the first eight years of our marriage, it was just my wife and I just having a brilliant time together. So this is great. And we were like the antithesis to like married couples, you know, we were like happening, you know, this is all great. But now when I look back on that, there really was no look down the road. There was no like, what's this about? You know, it's just, it was all very much riding that particular roller coaster.

• 56:00Lewis Howes?

  Living in the moment of fun and adventure.

• 56:02Gary John Bishop?

  The problem was, nothing was getting created. There was no, this is what we're up to.

• 56:08Lewis Howes?

  There's no vision coming to life.

• 56:09Gary John Bishop?

  Right. And, but that was on a very personal level. Like there was no... There was no thought in my head like, so where does this go? You know, it was just like, well, let's see, you know, as there shouldn't be, by the way, when you're in your twenties and thirties. There's no like, um, what would it be like when I'm in my forties or my fifties or my sixties with this woman? You know, it was all just about making my way through where I was. The, the brick wall that I had, like I said a little earlier, was mid to late thirties and I'm like, I don't work anymore. Like this.

• 56:40Lewis Howes?

  How did you know you weren't working? Was it a feeling? Was it a stress? Was it a lack of mission or purpose? Was it a lack of love for yourself? How did you know like, I'm not working?

• 56:50Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah, there was this kind of very fundamental experience of dissatisfaction. Like no matter what I did, it doesn't matter what I do.

• 56:59Lewis Howes?

  And the results and the success, it wasn't, you weren't satisfied?

• 57:02Gary John Bishop?

  It's funny because, and there was kind of earlier parts of my life, and I, and I assert this is true for all human beings.

• 57:09Gary John Bishop?

  You think the next thing is going to solve it. And then you get there and the problem's still there. And you might not fully have fleshed out that problem yet, but you know it's there. Like if you look back at the accomplishments of your life, like when you had them going for it, you're like,

• 57:26Gary John Bishop?

  and then you had it and you're like.

• 57:29Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, now what? Yeah.

• 57:31Gary John Bishop?

  Right, now what? Right, now what?

• 57:36Gary John Bishop?

  You do six of them.

• 57:38Lewis Howes?

  Like huh, I'm not feeling what I was supposed to be feeling.

• 57:40Gary John Bishop?

  Right, how, how come I'm not feeling it? Because it never resolves whatever the thing was. And so if there was anything I wish I'd really identified, and, and I don't mean this from a space of regret, I really don't. But it would have been kind of neat to identify the hole that I was trying to fill. You know, it would have been neat to see what I'm doing. I'm just happy that I did identify it. Some people go through their whole life and never, there's no introspection.

• 58:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 58:08Gary John Bishop?

  There's no like, and introspection is a funny thing because you can do too much of that too. Right? You can go too deep in your belly button, right?

• 58:15Lewis Howes?

  You need to just kind of relax sometimes and live life.

• 58:17Gary John Bishop?

  Right, you gotta be like, well, it's kind of like, the way I've always related to it since I started to work on myself is, okay, that's a good little insight. How am I gonna use this?

• 58:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:27Gary John Bishop?

  So I'm always using it for some thing in my life, for some good in my, in my life, or the people that I'm at the impact. Cause you can get, you can start to kind of get off on that, like, oh, that's a great, oh, yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But it doesn't actually show up in the reality of your life. You gotta make it show up. Yeah, I guess that's the only real thing, like, what was the hole I was trying to fill?

• 58:48Lewis Howes?

  Cause if you could have done that earlier, then what would you have done in those first 10 years?

• 58:52Gary John Bishop?

  There's that kind of force for life that you have when you're 20, you know, there's a, which gets you by.

• 58:58Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 58:59Gary John Bishop?

  It gets you overcome a lot of hills, you know, a lot of mountains. There's just a kind of forward trajectory that maybe I'd have used it for something else, you know, maybe it would have been. But, but then when I look back, I think the context that I choose for that time now, when I look back on it is, like, I really had to go through the darkness to realize that, that that wasn't the light.

• 59:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 59:22Gary John Bishop?

  Because when you're in that, you think this is the, like, I'm going somewhere.

• 59:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:26Gary John Bishop?

  You know, and then there's a, like, you're like, I'm going nowhere. I'm going nowhere.

• 59:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:33Gary John Bishop?

  And so the context that I choose for that now is it was a brilliant learning process for me, real life learning process.

• 59:40Lewis Howes?

  I just turned 39 and I told you before that I always wanted to, in relationships, start a therapeutic coaching, counseling.

• 59:50Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 59:50Lewis Howes?

  Experience in the beginning of a relationship as opposed to, two, three, five years in, when there's some challenges and let's try to solve something or resolve it and get back to a place of love and peace. And so I'm creating that with my, in my current relationship. It's a beautiful thing because there's not like an issue or a problem.

• 1:00:07Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 1:00:08Lewis Howes?

  And I was asking our coach, I was like, how many people come to you when there's no issues? She was like, it almost never happens.

• 1:00:13Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 1:00:13Lewis Howes?

  It's always when there's like a big breakdown or something.

• 1:00:15Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:16Lewis Howes?

  And so it's kind of build this foundation from the beginning. It's trying to learn from my mistakes of the past 15 years and do it in a different way.

• 1:00:22Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Lewis Howes?

  Approach in a different way. I'm curious, what would your advice be, I just turned 39, as I go into, you know, my 40th year and then this decade?

• 1:00:31Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:33Lewis Howes?

  How do you wish you would have approached it differently? Or how did you do it that was successful for you? That you would recommend as someone going into their 40s? Or even in their 20s, going into their 30s? But a new decade, how would you approach it?

• 1:00:46Gary John Bishop?

  You've got to make it about something.

• 1:00:48Lewis Howes?

  Like a mission?

• 1:00:49Gary John Bishop?

  It's got to be about something. If it's not about something, you're wasting your time. It's got to be about something, right? And I think that's a great way to split it up, any decades like that. And you can start your decade at 33.

• 1:01:00Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:01:01Gary John Bishop?

  But if you make it about something, like this is the decade of, right? Personal discovery. This is the decade of making a difference. This is a decade, like for me, was authentic wealth, right? For that decade.

• 1:01:13Lewis Howes?

  In your 40s?

• 1:01:13Gary John Bishop?

  My 40s was all about making a difference. This is about my life being about somebody other than me.

• 1:01:20Lewis Howes?

  In your 40s?

• 1:01:21Gary John Bishop?

  In my 40s. And I devoted myself to that, like, and I still do, right? It's

• 1:01:27Lewis Howes?

  What was the 50s then?

• 1:01:29Gary John Bishop?

  So the 50s was supposed to be about this authentic wealth, which I

• 1:01:32Lewis Howes?

  You did.

• 1:01:32Gary John Bishop?

  Scooted through that in two years, you know what I mean?

• 1:01:34Lewis Howes?

  So in your 40s, did you build authentic wealth then?

• 1:01:37Gary John Bishop?

  No, no, it was, I was already in the middle. I'd already said, so it was like the kind of middle of my 40s, tailing it out, setting half. And I'm like, my 50s has got to be about authentic wealth. Because I'd done so much work on myself. I saw so much of what this identity wanted to do that was inauthentic. It was to fix the identity. It wasn't about me. It was about it. And so then, to inside of myself, I'm going to make my 50s about this. And it was radical because when I took away all the needs and the wants and the attachments and the emotion and it was such a, it was such a clear pathway.

• 1:02:15Lewis Howes?

  So what was the shift? I guess you started this at the end of your 40s, you said. What was the shift from doing something beyond yourself in your 40s of being in service to saying, okay, now how can I do this and generate an abundance of wealth?

• 1:02:27Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 1:02:27Lewis Howes?

  What shifted in you? And then when did it start flowing?

• 1:02:31Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:32Lewis Howes?

  With this financial? Was it your ways of being was different? Was your thoughts were different about money? Was it just your efforts, your energy was different?

• 1:02:39Gary John Bishop?

  Well, remember, you can't create a breakthrough in something until you come to terms with what's already there. Right? So you have to see like, what's already there for me? And so, everybody has a relationship to something like money. There's already something there. The question is, what is it?

• 1:02:56Lewis Howes?

  And were you good at making money before?

• 1:02:58Gary John Bishop?

  No, I was terrible at it.

• 1:02:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow, okay.

• 1:03:00Gary John Bishop?

  And I've never even, because it was never a thing for me, like, it was never an authentic thing for me. It was all, it fell a hole.

• 1:03:08Lewis Howes?

  To like, buy something to feel better about yourself?

• 1:03:10Gary John Bishop?

  Right, and you know, I feel better now that money's in the bank. And then I started to think, well, what if it's just a transaction? What if it took me out of it? And it's just a thing? You know, it's just like a way to make something multiply. Like, how do I do that?

• 1:03:24Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:24Gary John Bishop?

  And so, what I realized with at the time, well, two things. One was, I lived with a lot of mystery about money. And just avoided it. Like, you know, that sounds like a lot of work.

• 1:03:35Lewis Howes?

  You didn't pay attention to it, or something like that?

• 1:03:36Gary John Bishop?

  Right, like, I don't need to know that, right? And I'm looking for lots of short circuits and how to do things. And then the other thing that was pretty massive for me was, I realized that, and this is true in all areas of somebody's life, but if you start with the financial aspect, you're always operating in some paradigm. You're always in some network of thinking. And so, identifying what my network of thinking was, like, what was it? And so, I realized that there was, believe it or not, a number that I thought, that if I did that number, that was, I've kind of done it, right?

• 1:04:09Lewis Howes?

  You feel good about yourself.

• 1:04:11Gary John Bishop?

  Right, but it wasn't even like, in any sense of the word, a massive number, but I thought like, that's the number. When you kind of peel back some of that, you'll realize that the number is what you think you can do. Based on other things.

• 1:04:24Lewis Howes?

  Based on your life and experience and your skills.

• 1:04:26Gary John Bishop?

  And other views that you have of yourself. So, I had this magic number, and it wa, again, it wasn't like a crazy number.

• 1:04:32Lewis Howes?

  But it was a big for you, it was like, okay, this is something I've never done before. It made me feel good about myself, I did it.

• 1:04:38Gary John Bishop?

  And what I found myself doing is, I'm sitting in front of a laptop, and I've got the Excel spreadsheet up.

• 1:04:43Lewis Howes?

  Ah-ha.

• 1:04:43Gary John Bishop?

  And I'm looking at the number, and I'm like, where did that come from?

• 1:04:47Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:04:47Gary John Bishop?

  How did I end up with that? You know? And I was about to give the next year of my life to it.

• 1:04:53Lewis Howes?

  To that number.

• 1:04:54Gary John Bishop?

  To that number. And every thought, and every strategy, and everything, was about that number. And then I thought, well, what if I doubled it? And I was like, whoa, you know, I can't even be with that, you know? Like, it was so crazy. And I thought, but that, if I doubled that number, and gave my word to it. That number would demand something of me, like it's now telling me that what I'm doing ain't it.

• 1:05:19Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:05:21Gary John Bishop?

  Man, that sent me off on a pathway, like a vein of thinking. What I started to realize, like, everything was happening in this kind of network of conversation that I'm in with myself. And when you change the outcome, it completely short circuits the thinking. That thinking can't produce double. It can't. It won't do it.

• 1:05:42Lewis Howes?

  You have to change the way you think.

• 1:05:43Gary John Bishop?

  I have to change the way I think and I have to, I have to really challenge what I think is possible. Like, really challenge it. And I noticed, like, there was a massive emotional attachment to that. Like, oh my gosh, so significant. Like, it can't be done. Guys like me can't do that. I don't have the education. I don't da-da-da. So I started to think from the future. I put myself there.

• 1:06:05Lewis Howes?

  In the future.

• 1:06:06Gary John Bishop?

  And that's what a visionary does. A visionary doesn't see the future. A visionary is coming from it. They're coming from the future. And they're standing here and looking at what they're doing right now and asking themselves, is what I'm doing right now aligning with that? And if it's not, I need to stop. Stop. Even though, like, well, none of this could maybe turn it, if it's not aligning with that, stop. Right in this moment. And so, at the beginning, it was a series of that, of stopping what I'm doing. And, you know, you've got an attachment to what you're doing because it'll produce that other number.

• 1:06:44Lewis Howes?

  Uh-huh.

• 1:06:45Gary John Bishop?

  Which ain't bad, you know?

• 1:06:46Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:06:47Gary John Bishop?

  But when I doubled it, the first time I ever doubled it, because I did the first year or two, I doubled and doubled. And when you start to hit that cycle, you know, you're realizing, like, it's all, the only thing is limiting you is what you're thinking.

• 1:07:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:07:02Gary John Bishop?

  Right, because...

• 1:07:03Lewis Howes?

  So what allowed you to double it then? What was the shift internally or the execution that was different?

• 1:07:08Gary John Bishop?

  It all begins with the right kind of thinking. Not thoughts, it's the right kind of thinking.

• 1:07:13Lewis Howes?

  What's the right kind of thinking?

• 1:07:14Gary John Bishop?

  Right. You gotta be able to hang with an idea without getting attached to it. Right, and that includes the ridiculous.

• 1:07:21Lewis Howes?

  The ridiculous, yeah.

• 1:07:22Gary John Bishop?

  You gotta be able to hang with the ridiculous. Why? Because what you've already determined is ridiculous is based on some other logic that got you where you are.

• 1:07:30Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 1:07:31Gary John Bishop?

  So you gotta, you gotta re-investigate the ridiculous. You gotta kinda go in and be like, well, hold on, hold on. And you gotta allow yourself to kinda be with it. So, one of the things that I think I've gotten pretty good at is hanging with something without letting go of the need to answer it.

• 1:07:49Lewis Howes?

  You mean to think of an idea that's ridiculous and not needing the answer on how to make the ridiculous come true?

• 1:07:55Gary John Bishop?

  Right. And so what happens is, when I do that, if I do that for a week, or maybe two weeks, lots of stuff will come up in my thinking. I'll wake up with ideas. Like, oh my gosh, I never thought about that before. Oh, what about, yeah, I never thought about that. And, and then, so the more that I got into it, the more that I, the more I was kinda getting outside of my own logic, my own thinking. Um, which really allowed me to step into things that my identity would not be comfortable with, like not comfortable with at all. One of them was, for me, was doing like big speaking engagements, right? So I, you know, I could do two, three, five hundred people, that's fine. Twenty-five thousand people,

• 1:08:40Gary John Bishop?

  maybe not so much. So I started to kinda put myself out there. And I, and I started to, you know, I started to talk to the right people. Right? Which was a big shock. I didn't know anybody. You know, I'm like a especially at that time, one-man operation. I don't know anybody, I'm just making a difference. How do you? And so, I had to knock down some, it wasn't knock down their walls. It was knock down my walls about them. And that process, I started to really get connected to my doing this has got nothing to do with them. I'm, I'm gonna make such a compelling case that they have no say. They have no say in this. I'm gonna present what I need to present here in such a way that they're like, okay,

• 1:09:25Gary John Bishop?

  just give the guy the microphone and let him go.

• 1:09:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27Gary John Bishop?

  That is actually what I did. I ended up doing like, you know, massive speaking engagements. You know, people like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Tony Robbins and blah, blah, blah, you know, and I'm out there like 25,000 people, like it's nothing. All inside of being of service to them, but in the background includes my commitment to creating this environment of authentic wealth for myself.

• 1:09:47Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:48Gary John Bishop?

  And never the twain shall meet. It was never like that this thing here is getting switched up. Never. It was always grounded in making the difference that I'm out to make.

• 1:10:00Lewis Howes?

  Authentic service for authentic wealth.

• 1:10:01Gary John Bishop?

  Right, very good. Anywhere that I sense or experience that this is more about the money than the difference that it can make, I'm not doing it.

• 1:10:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:10:09Gary John Bishop?

  I will not do it. And I've had, my gosh, so many opportunities, so many people present me with, oh, if you would only do this. And I won't because when you mess with the integrity of what you're about, there's no substance to it. There's no substance. So all of it is guided by, yeah, but does this make a difference? And that includes the people that work with me, like the agents that I have, the people that are involved in my, you know, my little team.

• 1:10:39Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 1:10:39Gary John Bishop?

  If you're not here to make a difference, we're not doing it. And I won't do it. And I refuse to do it because you're selling out on what it is that makes this thing real.

• 1:10:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:51Gary John Bishop?

  And it's gotta be real, not for me. It's gotta be real for people.

• 1:10:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:10:56Gary John Bishop?

  You know, because ultimately, like we talked about a little earlier, it's gotta be about making some kind of difference.

• 1:11:02Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:11:02Gary John Bishop?

  And if it can't, then I'm not doing it.

• 1:11:05Lewis Howes?

  And how did your relationship evolve as you started to bring more money to the relationship and the family? Cause a lot of the people struggle in marriages or relationships with money conversations. Did you see an improvement of the quality of relationship? Did you see challenges in talking about money? How did you guys address money when it's such a big factor for breakup, divorce, stress?

• 1:11:30Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:31Lewis Howes?

  In relationships?

• 1:11:32Gary John Bishop?

  Somebody once gave me this little nugget, and I believe it to be true, when somebody said, what's the difference between wealthy and not wealthy? And somebody said to me, It's just better hotels.

• 1:11:44Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah, nicer flights.

• 1:11:47Gary John Bishop?

  And that's basically it for me. Like, I never made it mean anything. You know, my three boys, like, they're very grounded. You know, they're not in any way enamored by money or anything like that. Like, my ten-year-old thinks if he could spend ten bucks on his next game of FIFA, like, that's a big result. You know, it's like, yay. You know, I just bought that FIFA pack for ten bucks.

• 1:12:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:13Gary John Bishop?

  It's a good day. And I don't shower them with stuff, you know. I don't, we don't do that. It just seems kind of ridiculous. As a family, we're very much about the experience of being alive. And whatever money we might have or not have is always about that. Like, it's always about enhancing that and embracing that and exploring that as a family. I wouldn't say I'm a particularly flashy guy, you know. I don't really do anything like that. It's not really my thing. Like, for instance, I'll give a little example. So when I started to do the speaking engagements with those big groups of people, I rarely stay up on the platform, right?

• 1:12:55Gary John Bishop?

  I go down and I go to the back and I talk back there. And I'll go hang out with those folks. Why? Because I've been in those seats. I know what it's like to be back there and unseen.

• 1:13:14Gary John Bishop?

  And I want you to be seen.

• 1:13:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:13:16Gary John Bishop?

  Like, that matters to me. That matters. I want the people who bought the twelve-hundred-buck ticket to sit at the front, you're good.

• 1:13:24Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:13:25Gary John Bishop?

  You can turn around and watch me at the back a while. And I think it's that authenticity, that grounding, that has never really allowed anything like money to kind of get in the way. I'm still... I still really relate to, and even you can look at any dedication that's in my books. I always dedicate them to people who are maybe at the bottom of the ladder right now. Like, they don't feel as if it's working for them.

• 1:13:50Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:13:51Gary John Bishop?

  I think in my first book, it was like, single moms and unemployed. I dedicated this book to the single moms and the unemployed fathers. You know, like, the people who are having a good at.

• 1:14:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:02Gary John Bishop?

  And I still, because that's most people.

• 1:14:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:14:05Gary John Bishop?

  Most people are wrestling with something. They're not all sitting at the top of the tree enjoying bananas. You know what I mean? So, I just have never been somebody who, like, I'm where I'm at and it's great. I want to relate to people who are, who are in the race.

• 1:14:20Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:14:21Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:22Lewis Howes?

  What do you think is the overall key from everything you've learned to having a fulfilling relationship then?

• 1:14:26Gary John Bishop?

  It's got to be grounded in what matters. I realized that two things that mattered to me in life were love and adventure. I realized that that was now my job and my relationship, to bring it, not to seek it. And to bring it because it's who I am. When you take away the notion that you're seeking it, it's a whole lot easier to actually be in a relationship.

• 1:14:44Lewis Howes?

  Because a lot of people say, "I'm looking for love," if they're single. "I'm looking for love, I'm looking for adventure." But if you be love, if you're being love and you're being adventurous.

• 1:14:53Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 1:14:54Lewis Howes?

  You will be it. You won't need to find it, you are it.

• 1:14:58Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 1:14:58Lewis Howes?

  And you'll find, you'll attract other people who are it as well.

• 1:15:01Gary John Bishop?

  What the interesting thing about my wife and I, which was really, has been brilliant since I took on this kind of perspective, is she's not always looking for what I'm, or expressing what I'm expressing. She's expressing her expression of what it is to be in a relationship, which is sometimes really different. You know, like, she's got a different expression of love than I do.

• 1:15:22Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:15:23Gary John Bishop?

  But I'm not sitting there like, "Oh, you know, feed me that." I'm more like, "This is an opportunity, this is an opening in my life, this is an opening in time." For me to get this out.

• 1:15:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:34Gary John Bishop?

  You know, and she's giving it her version, you know? And it really isn't fifty fifty. It's not like that because I don't. Like I told her, you know, I don't, I don't need you to be anyone but yourself. You know, just be yourself.

• 1:15:47Lewis Howes?

  What happened when you shifted that?

• 1:15:48Gary John Bishop?

  It was just like this massive release of pressure. You know, it was like. Oh, we're okay.

• 1:15:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:56Gary John Bishop?

  You know, we're okay. Like you can just be you.

• 1:15:58Lewis Howes?

  You don't need to control something. You don't need to fix something. You don't need to change something.

• 1:16:02Gary John Bishop?

  Nothing about this woman. Does that mean like it's all, like if I look at my wiring and the way that I'm wired? No, I got hooked and I get triggered and I get like. One of the things that we did, by the way, that I, that I think is important is. We made it okay to argue. It's okay.

• 1:16:18Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:16:19Gary John Bishop?

  Even if it's a stand up argument, fight, and she called me something and I called her something. It's okay. Right? It's, this doesn't, this isn't all adding up to the exit. It's not. It's like a moment in time. It's like something happened. Okay. Being forgiving is a massive part of my wife. And, and a massive part of my relationship. I don't.

• 1:16:44Gary John Bishop?

  I'm, I'm not gonna string you up. For something you did or said, like I'm not. Um, you're a human being too. In other words, there's a lot of space that I'm continually making.

• 1:16:54Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:16:55Gary John Bishop?

  I make a lot of space for my wife. I make a lot of space for my children. So whatever way they are, it's got a lot of room. It, I'm not like pressing on it and compressing it and you should be in control. No, let me just back off and let that be. It'll dissipate. It's okay.

• 1:17:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:11Gary John Bishop?

  And so there's a lot of that in a relationship.

• 1:17:13Lewis Howes?

  But you probably have to be okay with who you are and comfortable with your own skin in order to create the space of whatever emotions or environment happens, right?

• 1:17:21Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:22Lewis Howes?

  You've gotta be dealing with that healing journey continuously.

• 1:17:25Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 1:17:25Lewis Howes?

  So that you're not reactive to it.

• 1:17:27Gary John Bishop?

  That's a critical part of it. Like you have to give yourself the room to be a human being.

• 1:17:32Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:32Gary John Bishop?

  Stop holding yourself to some ideal. You're not always gonna be perfect.

• 1:17:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:17:37Gary John Bishop?

  There's gonna be times in your life. When you look at it, you're like, oh. Could I even? You know, I was a real jerk there, like, oh my gosh, like, I wish I could take that back. And I'll initially go there and then I'll be like, hold on a minute. I'm a human being too. And I think that's one of the things that's drawn a lot of people to my work. I'm not professing to have every answer. And I'm not floating around here like, you know, Gandhi or something, you know, I'm not like, this isn't, I'm not a perfect kind of human being on one hand.

• 1:18:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:18:15Gary John Bishop?

  Or maybe I am.

• 1:18:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Exactly.

• 1:18:19Gary John Bishop?

  Maybe this is what it is, you know, to be a human being. It's all of it. It's all the things. It's, I really believe you're just a vessel for experiences.

• 1:18:28Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:18:28Gary John Bishop?

  And some of them are great. And some of them are kind of crappy.

• 1:18:31Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:18:32Gary John Bishop?

  And it's okay, you know, it's the more you try and fix it or shape it or move it, you're kind of nailing it down rather than letting it just pass through.

• 1:18:42Lewis Howes?

  This is powerful, man. I've got a couple of final questions for you, but I really love this conversation. And your book, Love Unf- Getting Your Relationship Together is out. People can buy it on Amazon or wherever books are sold. We'll have it all linked up as well in the description in the show notes. But where are you on social media the most? Or how can we connect with you beyond the book? And it's, I love, I love the short but packed books.

• 1:19:06Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 1:19:07Lewis Howes?

  I can read them, so I appreciate this.

• 1:19:09Gary John Bishop?

  No, that's good. It's, I love that you said that too, because I really feel as if the value in my books is in the thinking you're gonna have to do. You know, it's not necessarily like you're gonna take something out of there linearly.

• 1:19:20Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:19:21Gary John Bishop?

  But yeah, I'm on, I'm everywhere, but you know, Instagram's like a favorite of mine. I like, you know, obviously I spend a lot of time on there. I love to give people stuff that they can think about and chew on, you know? But I'm also on Facebook, I'm on Twitter, and obviously my website, garyjonbishop.com.

• 1:19:36Lewis Howes?

  There you go. And you've got all the information for your books there and everything else you're up to at garyjonbishop.com.

• 1:19:42Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:42Lewis Howes?

  Love this, man. I've got a question for you. This is called the three truths question I ask everyone at the end.

• 1:19:47Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:48Lewis Howes?

  So imagine hypothetical scenario, it's your last day on earth, many years away. You live as long as you want to live.

• 1:19:53Gary John Bishop?

  Okay.

• 1:19:54Lewis Howes?

  You are the vessel that experiences life to the fullest. And you accomplish what you want to accomplish. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you.

• 1:20:03Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:03Lewis Howes?

  On the last day, the books, the content, this interview, for whatever reason, got to go somewhere else.

• 1:20:08Gary John Bishop?

  Okay.

• 1:20:08Lewis Howes?

  So it's not left in the world.

• 1:20:10Gary John Bishop?

  Okay.

• 1:20:11Lewis Howes?

  But you get to leave behind three lessons with the world, three things that you know to be true from your life experiences. And this is all we'd have to remember you by. What would you say are those three truths?

• 1:20:21Gary John Bishop?

  The only truth is the one you've agreed with. The second one would be. You are an unlimited potential, whether you believe that or not. And be kind.

• 1:20:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I want to acknowledge you, Gary, for a moment because you've had an amazing journey and you've dedicated this, I guess, second phase of your life to service.

• 1:20:43Gary John Bishop?

  Right.

• 1:20:44Lewis Howes?

  To using your experiences, your thinking, your challenges, the pain, and creating work that inspires and serves and educates. And I really acknowledge you for showing up consistently with your perfect imperfections. And and just sharing what you know, sharing what you've learned and putting it in ways that we can understand it. That might be confusing at times. So I really acknowledge you for showing up big the way you have. And I think shifting a identity that you you were so stuck on from the way you grew up.

• 1:21:15Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:15Lewis Howes?

  And being okay with letting it die and also holding on to some of it and transforming, I think, is so hard for so many people. I know it was hard for me. So I really acknowledge you for shifting that and being constantly in a reinvention phase of your life.

• 1:21:29Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:29Lewis Howes?

  And in service to so many people.

• 1:21:31Gary John Bishop?

  Well, thank you for that generous acknowledgement. That was really brilliant. One of the things, I'm going to acknowledge you for a second, if you don't mind.

• 1:21:37Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:21:38Gary John Bishop?

  So I think you're a brilliant example, like a truly brilliant example of what it is to be vulnerable.

• 1:21:44Lewis Howes?

  Thanks, man.

• 1:21:44Gary John Bishop?

  And it screams.

• 1:21:46Lewis Howes?

  Thanks, man.

• 1:21:46Gary John Bishop?

  In a really great way.

• 1:21:48Lewis Howes?

  Thank you. Appreciate it. Appreciate it, man. I think, yeah, the last eight, nine years, I've really opened up and allow myself to be vulnerable at any moment.

• 1:21:56Gary John Bishop?

  Great. I get it at once.

• 1:21:58Lewis Howes?

  It's not easy. You know, it's not easy. But I think the more I embody vulnerability, the more my heart is open to receiving people, to having intimate conversations, to being able to share things that are sad or scary or

• 1:22:14Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:14Lewis Howes?

  whatever might be coming up for me. So I appreciate it and

• 1:22:17Gary John Bishop?

  You're welcome.

• 1:22:18Lewis Howes?

  I receive it, man.

• 1:22:19Gary John Bishop?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:20Lewis Howes?

  My final question for you, and again, I want to make sure people get the book. We'll have it all linked up. But my final question, Gary, is what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:22:28Gary John Bishop?

  Oh, that's a brilliant question, right? So it's the triumph of the human spirit. It's the opportunity for somebody to go beyond, whatever that might be for you. And sometimes it's a simple thing like going beyond some old hurt or pain. But sometimes it's going beyond a situation or circumstance. I really do believe in the possibility of people living great lives. And so it's always comes down to the triumph of the human spirit.

• 1:23:00Lewis Howes?

  There you go. Gary, appreciate you, man.

• 1:23:02Gary John Bishop?

  Awesome. Thank you so much.

• 1:23:04Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys. So share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.