#2453 - Evan Hafer

Evan Hafer is a Special Forces veteran, founder, and executive chairman of Black Rifle Coffee Company, and one of the hosts of the “Black Rifle Coffee Podcast.”www.blackriflecoffee.comwww.youtube.com/@BlackRifleCoffeeCompany Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Go to https://ROKA.com and upgrade your eyewear This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https//BetterHelp.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh man, what's happening, baby?

• 0:14Speaker 03

  Everything and nothing at the same time.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  I was just explaining all this shit that's on this desk. It's like, everybody likes to give me something that sits here, which is kinda cool. Like, Ed Calderon gave me this. It's like a WD-40 with a lighter attached to it. You can fucking blast people.

• 0:33Speaker 03

  Is that like a self-defense?

• 0:35Joe Rogan?

  I don't, he's always got these things, like cartel things.

• 0:39Speaker 03

  That looks like it's 3D printed, yeah.

• 0:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think it is.

• 0:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's cool.

• 0:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, it's a portable flamethrower.

• 0:47Speaker 03

  Holy shit.

• 0:49Joe Rogan?

  From two common items. And then, I think it was Luke Caverns gave me this. Is that who gave me this? The Olmec head? It's from the Olmecs.

• 0:59Speaker 03

  Oh, is that what it is?

• 0:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then, of course, my man John Reeves has always given me these mammoth things. I got mammoth teeth. Oh, this is actually from Colossal. But he gave me a 1911 handle.

• 1:11Speaker 03

  That's legit.

• 1:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13Speaker 03

  Even though, do you have any 1911s?

• 1:15Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16Joe Rogan?

  I got 2011s.

• 1:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course, it's a huge upgrade.

• 1:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but, you know, I'm sure it'll probably be able to fit. Like, you can bring it to a gunsmith, he can make it fit.

• 1:26Speaker 03

  Well, you know what you could do? You could have him make one for your bow. So you could put the bone on each side of your bow.

• 1:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I have that.

• 1:33Speaker 03

  You have it?

• 1:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, from Rattler Grips.

• 1:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:37Joe Rogan?

  This is another piece. Shout out to Handsome Rob, the Rattler Grips. He always hooks me up, gives me those keep hammering ones.

• 1:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, those are cool.

• 1:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it feels better, too. It feels better in the hand. It's interesting, like Hoyt doesn't have a whole lot of options. Like, Ultraview doesn't make their handles for Hoyt, but they make them for Matthews, because he shoots Matthews. But it's a nice handle upgrade. It really does, like, the way it sits in your hand, it really does feel like... A little better.

• 2:04Speaker 03

  Are you still, are you still putting them on your, your Hoyt for everyone?

• 2:08Joe Rogan?

  The rattler grips.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  You do?

• 2:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. He just sent me some new ones. It feels better. And the bone, there's something about the bone, it's more tactile in your hand than the plastic.

• 2:18Speaker 03

  I've been wrapping mine with that camouflage athletic tape.

• 2:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 2:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23Joe Rogan?

  Bowmar sells stuff like that. He sells specific bow grip.

• 2:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:26Joe Rogan?

  It's got a little bit of tackiness to it, but some people think you shouldn't have that. They think your hand should be so relaxed that it should be able to slip around your hand so there's like no torque whatsoever in your front hand.

• 2:36Speaker 03

  I don't like that. I like to feel, I like to feel the, the dexterity of it, right? I like to have a little bit of relief in the hand in the context of, like, I gotta have some grippiness to it. It's just like a baseball bat or any other things. And even all of the, like, Glocks and 2011s, I'll still do an upgrade on the stippling and create a little bit more. But I've also got giant hands for a, well, I shouldn't be, I shouldn't say I'm small. Like, I am two inches taller than the average Asian woman. So I, I don't like to brag about it. I don't want to come out with that right away. It just might seem a little bit egotistical.

• 3:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but if you, if you do anything, I think it's just like, whether it's with archery or anything with shooting, you just, it just has to register with you. It's not, it's not gonna be the same with everybody. You know, I know dudes who just can't get used to finger triggers. And some dudes just love finger triggers. And some guys just have to shoot a hinge and some guys just can't do it.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  I, I shoot them all, man.

• 3:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Like, I just have, so I got that, that dump bag now that I basically I'll wear on the side. And then I'll do the, the hinge roulette.

• 3:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just reach in there.

• 3:49Speaker 03

  Reach in and then I gotta shoot a hinge or I gotta shoot this. And the only way that's, that you don't Or the the mix up part, you've got to shoot the wrist wrap, right? You have to put that on, so you can't just do shooter roulette with all of that.

• 4:03Joe Rogan?

  But that's the wrist wrap's a little bit more involved, but I love having, I've been using the Wise Guy. I've been, ever since our last hunt, I've been only using the Wise Guy. And I'm used to it now. It took, it took a while. I was like hammering the trigger for a little bit. Like after, the thing is, it's like with archery, once your form breaks down and then you try to compensate because you're tired, like I think I should just limit myself to one hour. And after one hour, just stop.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  So is that what you're doing every day is basically an hour?

• 4:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  A little bit more, a little, little?

• 4:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's when it's more, it's when things go sideways. Like I'll give myself like a few minutes break to let my arm relax. And then I just, I'm just, it's too much compensating because my arm's tired.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 4:50Joe Rogan?

  And not enough, especially because the bow's 84. Now I got the new one that's 90 pounds.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  Is that what you're shooting every day?

• 4:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:56Speaker 03

  You're shooting 90 pounds?

• 4:57Joe Rogan?

  84 every day.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  84 every day?

• 4:59Joe Rogan?

  I haven't, I haven't set up the 90 yet. It's still at archery country.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  And then do you, are you going out to 100 plus every day too? Or are you sticking at like 85?

• 5:06Joe Rogan?

  85, 85 is my standard in my backyard. As long as there's no, no one wandering around. When people are wandering around, I tend to, I got, you know, like this landscapers, I, I don't do the long bomb.

• 5:19Speaker 03

  I, I've got, my, my wife is redoing this. Little garden house in the back so she won't let me shoot at it anymore because she's afraid I'm going to put an arrow through her little hut that she's making. She's, she's actually doing all the work too. She's got like a tool belt on and she's out there hammering away.

• 5:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's great.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  Doors in and everything. She's doing all the work.

• 5:38Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  So she's like, you can no longer use this as your backstop because it was just a pile of shit that I could basically shoot arrows at.

• 5:44Joe Rogan?

  That's a bad trade.

• 5:45Speaker 03

  It's a super bad trade.

• 5:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I need a backstop. You gotta fuck off. Like we were talking about like must haves for backyards. Like I gotta, I'm, I'm not living in a house where I can't shoot at least 50 yards.

• 5:57Speaker 03

  No.

• 5:57Joe Rogan?

  I go out in the backyard, I get my rangefinder. I bring a rangefinder when I look at houses. No bullshit.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Are you serious?

• 6:02Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent. I've been doing it for the last like six, seven years. Before I bought this house in Austin, when I bought the house in Austin, it was a big yard. I'm like, we're good. I just had to find a spot. I was like, this is at least a hundred yards from here to here.

• 6:14Speaker 03

  Have you ever punched the trigger and put one out in the river? I guess you shouldn't tell me that.

• 6:20Joe Rogan?

  No, no, I never shoot towards the river because kayakers, you never know when some, because like the kayakers, they like to go like real close to the shore. And it's like, if you hear, ah!

• 6:35Joe Rogan?

  Fuck, that would suck. Oh my God, I'd be in such deep shit. I would never do it. I wouldn't, I just wouldn't.

• 6:43Speaker 03

  Deep shit?

• 6:44Joe Rogan?

  Deepest of deep shit. An asshole like me who's always promoting archery, I shoot a kayaker with a field tip right through the fucking forehead.

• 6:53Joe Rogan?

  See some poor lady?

• 6:55Speaker 03

  Like a unicorn running through, running off the river.

• 6:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh God, oh my God. I very rarely, I mean, if I'm shooting broadheads, I really know where I'm going. I don't, I don't fuck around. But with field tips, I'll, I'll launch some bombs. But it's never in an area where there's anything behind me.

• 7:14Speaker 03

  No.

• 7:15Joe Rogan?

  I don't, it's too risky.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  I had, so I had an archery, little archery range in the back of my Salt Lake City building. And every, like, and I used to let everybody use it in the company. And then after you've worked for the company for a while, you'd get your choice. You'd get like a staccato or a rifle or a bow. And then we were doing, we still do, right? We still do a lot of better and adaptive athlete shoots and the tactical or tactical games and the total archery challenges. So I've given away a hundred bows probably to people in the company.

• 7:47Joe Rogan?

  Do you let them pick their brand and the whole deal?

• 7:49Speaker 03

  No, no, no. We partner, we partner with Hoyt on the last batch, then we partner with PSC. We partner with kind of anybody that wants to like go in 50/50 on us, right?

• 7:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, great. That's awesome.

• 8:01Speaker 03

  But then we'll make them Black Rifle custom, right? So it's cool camouflage, a little branding on it. But here's the downside to that. So when you got a bunch of people shooting in the back, and I had a storage facility in the back, there were always arrows in this like storage. And so finally, my, my, our general counsel came to me, he's like, no more. You gotta stop. You can't shoot any more arrows. So abandon it for everybody except for me. Me, Logan, you know, Matt, basically the people that could have either absorbed the legal fees or at least like explained it away.

• 8:35Joe Rogan?

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• 9:18Joe Rogan?

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• 11:08Speaker 03

  No. It's even hard for me if I take three weeks off.

• 11:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  I was having that a little bit of tendonitis in my left elbow. So I took like a month off after running season. And you put it back in your hand and it feels almost like a foreign object.

• 11:26Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  It feels horrible. It's just gross until you have at least three or four days of shooting consistently back into the groove. You can't put the arrow where you want. It's just three weeks off.

• 11:40Joe Rogan?

  And it feels to me like the more consistent I am in offseason, like the entire year, that's, those are the years where I'm really shooting my best. You can't just get back on the bow like a month before you have to go hunt. You can't do it.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  I can't. I know guys that can. Guys that I grew up with that had been shooting since they were nine.

• 12:03Joe Rogan?

  Right, but they're really good shots. Imagine how good they would be if they did it all the time.

• 12:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:07Joe Rogan?

  Like a guy like Cam, like he's not taking any time off.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  No.

• 12:11Joe Rogan?

  He's shooting every day.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  But that's part, he, he, he takes pleasure in the pain too. He doesn't take time off because he's...

• 12:18Joe Rogan?

  That would be relaxing.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, it'd be relaxing. Like, imagine, just, just imagine that. Like Cam Haynes on vacation. His feet up, you know, drinking on the beach. Is that even like a...

• 12:29Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  It's not even a thing.

• 12:30Joe Rogan?

  I've gone on vacation with him.

• 12:31Speaker 03

  Have you really?

• 12:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but we went vacationing in Lanai, where we could bow hunt. So we would bow hunt at least once a day, because Lanai, you know, you've been, it's crazy. It's one of the craziest places on earth.

• 12:44Speaker 03

  It's great.

• 12:44Joe Rogan?

  For people that don't know, there's 3,000 people and 30,000 deer.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:49Joe Rogan?

  And they were given by King Kamea, to King Kamea Mea, by the, whoever the head dude was in India. He's like, gave them a gift of Axis.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  Is that where they came from?

• 13:00Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  I didn't realize that, that, that was the actual timeline.

• 13:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:03Speaker 03

  I didn't realize that.

• 13:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they're everywhere. They tried, they...

• 13:07Speaker 03

  They're amazing.

• 13:07Joe Rogan?

  They tried to reintroduce them, tried to introduce them to the big island. Like I know Shane Dorian was all pumped about it, but then they eradicated them. People killed them. They said they were invasive, but...

• 13:17Speaker 03

  I think they need to be everywhere they can be.

• 13:18Joe Rogan?

  They're delicious.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  They're delicious. They're the most delicious meat.

• 13:22Joe Rogan?

  Of the deer.

• 13:23Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 13:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, next to elk. It's like, it's, for me, it's elk and then Axis. But Axis are the most challenging to hunt. They're the fastest things I've ever seen in my life.

• 13:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:32Joe Rogan?

  They move so fast, it doesn't even make sense. It's like, how are you doing that? You could dodge an arrow from 30 yards away and the arrow's not even close to them when it, when it gets there?

• 13:41Speaker 03

  I had a female bedded at 30. And she jumped the string on her bed at 30 yards. That, that was my first shot. I realized, holy shit.

• 13:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're different, man.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  I've gotta up my game.

• 13:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like they evolved with tigers.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, you gotta be able to go.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Can you imagine how tough you would be if you evolved with tigers? That would be sick.

• 14:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the problem with America, period. It's like, there's not enough, there's too many people running around with zero physical challenges. And they're so soft. Like, there's a giant percentage of our population that is so soft. And if, like, if there was like, if the world went nuclear, we lost everything, and then it was like hand-to-hand battles. Every country could invade America if we ran out of bullets. Once we run out of bullets, every country can fuck us up.

• 14:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, right. You can walk around, I think, well, that's, you know, with coffee, right? The best coffee shops are like, there's so much stuff on Instagram, it's so funny. Cause you walk into a coffee shop and if you see the craziest looking freak, it's gonna have the best coffee.

• 14:54Joe Rogan?

  What is that about, baristas?

• 14:55Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 14:56Joe Rogan?

  They're so left-wing weirdo, fucking lip rings.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. How many nose rings do you have? How, like, how many colors do you have in your hair and how many pronouns do you have? Cause that's like, you're gonna make the greatest espresso I've ever had. And that's the joke, right? Cause I'll go cruise around, like, in Austin for the last couple of weeks.

• 15:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you see a dude who's jacked with a hand tattoo, he's gonna make you a bullshit coffee.

• 15:21Speaker 03

  It's like, I can make you pour over, I mean, I can just pour it over, you know? Like, what?

• 15:27Joe Rogan?

  He'll make you some cowboy coffee, he's gonna fucking, one of them tin pots that you put on the fire.

• 15:31Speaker 03

  Take his sock off or something. Like, I, I'm good, I'm all set, man. Yeah, I'm all set.

• 15:38Joe Rogan?

  What is it about baristas? Like, how did that become such a left-wing safe place?

• 15:44Speaker 03

  You know, I don't know. I think the origin of it comes from San Francisco, Seattle, right? All the, we'll say, the left-wing, left coast, all of the woke-ism. Yeah, because that also drove most of what I would say is the third and fourth wave. Because there's one, two, three, four basic waves in coffee. The fourth, third and fourth wave are the most recent. The fourth wave would be considered single-origin, very lightly-roasted coffees. And you've been to these coffee shops. You know what they look like. It takes you 15 minutes to get a cup of coffee. They typically won't even talk to you. They look down at the computer screen. But it's gonna be decent cop, right?

• 16:28Speaker 03

  So if you go first wave, which is gonna be Folgers, Maxwell House, that's like been around for 100 years. That's a commodity coffee. It's gonna have robusta. It's gonna be darker-roasted. That's gonna be first wave. And then second wave would be experiential. So it'd be more like Starbucks. The kind of second wave would be experiential dark. And then third wave would be more artisan, micro-lot, single-origin. And then fourth wave is kind of a mix of the best in third wave that really activates your senses in the sense of like, now they're doing anaerobics, so they're using things from like wine and beer, and they're developing all these different profiles.

• 17:11Speaker 03

  But that artisan craft, the genesis in like San Francisco and Seattle from third wave, they took on identity politics and then drove it through the trade. It's pretty impressive. It's so weird, because if you go anywhere, you can get amazing cups of coffee. You're just gonna like wade through the woke-ism to go get it.

• 17:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I can't go there.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  No.

• 17:34Joe Rogan?

  I was at a Starbucks the other day, and two lesbians walked in. They saw me and they left.

• 17:39Speaker 03

  What?

• 17:41Speaker 03

  That's how bad it was?

• 17:42Joe Rogan?

  They said, "We can't. We can't do this."

• 17:44Speaker 03

  Seriously?

• 17:44Joe Rogan?

  They looked in my face and they said, "We can't do this," and they left. I was like, "I'm a big fan."

• 17:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:49Joe Rogan?

  "Big fan of your work."

• 17:52Joe Rogan?

  I had a cup of coffee from Starbucks, which I rarely go into, but I was up to my family. And it was so bad. A cup of black coffee, solid drink, I don't put anything in it. I was like, "This is like, not drinkable. It tastes like shit." Which is like, everybody throws a bunch of cream in there and a bunch of sugar in there and you get your caffeine and it tastes like what you like. But, if you just try to just drink coffee at Starbucks, it is such a bad product. And that doesn't have to be like that.

• 18:22Speaker 03

  Well, it's... Part of the problem is, is...

• 18:25Joe Rogan?

  It's burnt.

• 18:25Speaker 03

  ...when they over-roast it.

• 18:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  Because they know it's gonna have cream and sugar in it.

• 18:29Joe Rogan?

  But why over-roast it, then?

• 18:31Speaker 03

  Because you can make a consistent profile and it's just consistently very dark and extremely acidic, basically. And that becomes the consistency in the product.

• 18:44Joe Rogan?

  Do you think people have this thing in their head that the darker the coffee is, the stronger it is?

• 18:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course. That's one of the huge misconceptions, right?

• 18:51Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 18:52Speaker 03

  Let's just bucket the misconceptions in here, which is, you know, coffee is not a bean, it's a fruit. So it's a cherry and then you roast the pit. So, the second one would probably be, the darker you roast something, the more caffeine it's gonna have, which is absolutely not the case.

• 19:07Joe Rogan?

  It's the opposite.

• 19:08Speaker 03

  It's completely opposite. Because you've got two genetic strains. You've got robusta and arabica. Robusta is a smaller bean, it's got more caffeine, it's also more bitter. Arabica probably constitutes probably 60 to 70% of the world's coffee, but it's more flavor, it's got less caffeine and it's less acidic, in general. And then when you over-roast it, you can kind of combine multiple lots, multiple variants of arabica.

• 19:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I see.

• 19:38Speaker 03

  And then you can consistent... You can make this consistent profile.

• 19:41Joe Rogan?

  So it consistently sucks?

• 19:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, if you're gonna put cream and sugar in it,

• 19:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:47Speaker 03

  Nobody cares. Because they're like, "I just need something that's gonna serve as a caffeine vehicle for my cream and sugar."

• 19:55Joe Rogan?

  I know, but wouldn't that be okay if you just had good coffee and did that?

• 19:59Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 20:00Joe Rogan?

  And didn't burn it?

• 20:01Speaker 03

  Well, I do. I think that's where third wave and fourth wave, it's more...

• 20:07Speaker 03

  Directly related to the quality of the coffee. It's no cream, no sugar. And it's more first and second wave. It's cream and sugar. Cause you're, you're gonna have to cover up the inconsistencies.

• 20:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, some people just like it anyway, because what they're getting is a treat. It's not, they're not thinking of it as like, I'm drinking coffee. Like they're getting a treat.

• 20:27Speaker 03

  Right.

• 20:27Joe Rogan?

  Like if you have order a frappuccino.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  It's a milkshake.

• 20:30Joe Rogan?

  It's a milkshake.

• 20:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's tons of sugar, tons of caffeine too. You're like, ahh, sitting in your cubicle.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  You've got like a hundred grams of sugar, 200 milligrams of caffeine. You're like, you're, you're skyrocketing with just energy until you crash and then you need another one in the afternoon.

• 20:48Joe Rogan?

  And then you're just doing that all day and frying your central nervous system. And then when you get out of work, you just die. You just go home and.

• 20:54Speaker 03

  Go home and melt on the couch and watch some sports, man.

• 20:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, your insulin's all fucked up. You're falling asleep.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  The coffee, the coffee nerd conversations just put half the fucking audience to sleep too.

• 21:07Joe Rogan?

  I don't care. I don't care.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it's so funny, man. I'll start talking about it. I'm like, ah, I should not. Cause I was a comms guy back in, in my previous profession, my previous life. And it's so funny because when you talk about communications and just technology in general, and you start analyzing like, you know, frequencies and, and spectrum analyzers or whatever, whatever you want to talk about. People's eyes would just glaze over in the team room. And I'm like, all right, well, you guys want to go blow some shit up? Like, why don't we shift the topic? Because you guys don't want to talk about this. I know you don't want to hear about it. So in cross training, it's just, you try to keep people awake, basically.

• 21:51Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Roka. And this is important, so don't skip this. I've been wearing Rokas for years and I absolutely love them. Of all the glasses brands out there, I choose Roka. Roka shit just works different. You'll notice it from the first time you put them on their face. They feel great. I can run around in them. They never fall off your head. They're super high quality, lightweight, super comfortable, and they stay on your damn face. Even if you're sweaty, they stay in place even better. They don't slip. Gym stuff, kettlebells, yoga, sprints, chasing the dog, whatever you're into. It could be just leaning over to pick up your kids. Everything stays on your face and feels great with crystal clear optics. Check them out and feel the difference for yourself. To help you get started,

• 22:36Joe Rogan?

  Rogan is offering J R E listeners 20% off your order. So go to roka.com. Well, there's a lot of people that have a hard time focusing on something that isn't exciting. Oh, yeah. For whatever reason, even if it's like important technical details that'll help you do things that are exciting. You know, it's it's the delayed gratification. Right. They're the same type of people that don't like to do cold plunges or don't like to do certain things that like, you're not going to feel an immediate benefit. It's going to suck while you're doing it, so you put it off. Like, you gotta, you've gotta have a mindset that there's some things that suck that will make the things that are exciting way better. Yeah. Like, for comics, it's writing, like, sitting down and writing.

• 23:18Joe Rogan?

  You know, because a lot of comics don't want to write. They just want to come out with ideas through the day and then work them out on stage. I'm like, that is great. You can do that. But you should also write, because the ideas that come to you while you're writing, they won't come any other way. And those are like little gifts from the universe. And you, the only way you get them is you gotta sit down with a fucking pad of paper or a computer in front of you and come up with them. You gotta sit down and start working and let the mind just, just slowly but surely pop them out. How, how often do you do that? At least four days a week. For hour, two hours? Yeah, at least, at least an hour. I try to write a thousand words. So it might be an hour, it might be two hours, and then out of those thousand words, I might get a paragraph. Like, there it is.

• 24:03Joe Rogan?

  That's what I was looking for. You're basically looking for arrowheads in a field. You know, you're picking up a giant clump of dirt and you're shaking it out and washing it over and, ah, got one.

• 24:13Speaker 03

  So do you try that out on anybody before you actually?

• 24:15Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  No, you just like, okay, this is the concept.

• 24:18Joe Rogan?

  I'm pretty sure I got something. When I got something, I'm pretty sure I got it, but I don't know what it's gonna be until the audience tells me.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Well, you have your own club, so you can just try it out.

• 24:26Joe Rogan?

  That helps a lot.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  You just like drive in. Matt's Wednesday, let me try this out.

• 24:30Joe Rogan?

  Even when I didn't, I would go to the store. I would go to the, like, say if I have a bit and it's exciting, I'm like, oh, I wrote something that's good. I would go to the improv, and then I'd go to the store, and maybe I'd go to the ice house.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 24:40Joe Rogan?

  I bang out a few sets, at least two in a night, some, you know, you could travel around. Like, LA was really good for that. Austin's amazing for that. There's seven clubs on my street now.

• 24:50Speaker 03

  What?

• 24:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, between my street and the neighboring streets. So you got us, and then right down the street is the Sunset Room, which Red Van owns, and then right up across from that, you got Creek in the Cave, which is awesome. And then you got the Vulcan, which is right down the street, and there's a bunch of other small rooms. There's the Black Rabbit. There's all these rooms that have comedy at least three or four nights a week. So if you're like a guy or a girl coming up right now in Austin, you could really work. You could work, and they're all paying. So you're, you know, you're collecting 50 bucks here, my club pays more, my club plays the most, but all these different places, they pay, you know, like, actual money for you to do a set. At the end of the night, you got a few hundred bucks, you can get something to eat. Like, there's all these comics that don't have to do the road now.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  Right.

• 25:34Joe Rogan?

  So like, they used to just have to do the road to pay their rent and for food. You don't have to do that anymore. You could like, stay in town and really build up material and then go out on the road.

• 25:44Speaker 03

  Is the material gonna shift? I know it's, like, regionally, you've gotta have your, I'm not saying like, left or right. I'm just saying, does the material have to shift based on where you're at? So if you're in LA, is the crowd a little bit different? The people are gonna be more accepting, less accepting, expect something a little bit different than here? You can't. You just like, here's the joke, let me run it.

• 26:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, the good thing is if they're not accepting of an idea, maybe you should reexamine that idea. And maybe figure out, like, why am I, maybe I should figure out a better way to make this idea acceptable. You know, because there's ideas where I'll start it off and it's just like, ooh. This ain't going anywhere. And then I'm like, there's gotta be an angle in here. And then I'll find a whole nother angle. I'm like, ha ha. Now I have it. And then I have to find an angle. Like, what if I was a woman and I was watching this? And I'm looking at this fucking meathead on stage and I'm like, okay. Like, I gotta figure out a way to get them to understand that just because I look like this, doesn't mean I'm a bad guy.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 26:44Joe Rogan?

  Let me like, work this into your head first and then explain it from my perspective.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  It's funny, because I look like this, it doesn't mean I'm a bad guy.

• 26:53Joe Rogan?

  It's an automatic assumption.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:55Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean, it's an untold prejudice that like, men with muscles in particular are assholes.

• 27:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 27:02Joe Rogan?

  Like instantly.

• 27:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're, you've got a, you've got a very definitive look. And then as soon as you open your mouth, they're assuming that you're gonna be just the

• 27:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Complete asshole.

• 27:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can see that.

• 27:13Joe Rogan?

  A mean person.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:15Joe Rogan?

  Covered in tattoos. Cage fighting commentary.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  I know that you can craft a joke because you've been doing this for forever. But is there a certain amount of pleasure that you get now from bombing sometimes? Smoking in?

• 27:31Joe Rogan?

  Terrible.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  Really?

• 27:33Joe Rogan?

  I always say bombing on stage like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother.

• 27:36Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 27:37Joe Rogan?

  The difference is like, there's probably a guy out there that likes sucking a thousand dicks. You made me do this, mom. Look, come on, mom. Ninety-nine! There's a guy out there that would like, take some, I mean, there's people into shit porn and all kinds of nuts things.

• 27:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's You're, you're drawing the same parallel to like bombing and people are into shit porn.

• 27:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you like bombing, you're into people shitting in your mouth. Like, it's not fun. You don't want people to have a bad time. They're there to have fun. These people work. They're working all day, they're fucking tired. You want them to have a good ass time. And the only way for them to have a good ass time is for you to do your job.

• 28:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:15Joe Rogan?

  You know, but it's, uh, it has to sometimes not work well. And there's like this moment when I'm about to do a new bit, I'm like, God, I don't even wanna do this. I don't know where this goes. But I have to. You gotta trot it out there and, and hope that you could find an angle.

• 28:31Speaker 03

  So you don't try those on, on your, uh, like with your wife or your kid?

• 28:35Joe Rogan?

  She'd be the worst.

• 28:36Speaker 03

  Yeah?

• 28:37Joe Rogan?

  She'd be the worst.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  She'd just tear you down?

• 28:38Joe Rogan?

  She would just stare at me like, what, what is wrong with you?

• 28:45Joe Rogan?

  It's like, she and I have a very good balance, cuz she's so different than me. She's so, but has a lot of the same values as me.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, discipline, and she's very smart, and she's interested in things. But we're very different.

• 28:59Speaker 03

  Well, it's so funny, cuz my wife and I will walk around, right? And I'm a very amateur comedian to surround my friends. I try to, I try really hard, right? I'm not even close, I'm just like, you know, I specialize in stupid shit that I say. Basically, that's where I'm going with this. And she, when I get her to laugh, that's like, that means way more to me than, than like... But my friends, sure, I can make them laugh, like, I can make my employees to laugh. I can't pay them to, you know? But, like, when my wife laughs, that means it's fucking funny.

• 29:31Joe Rogan?

  That's legit.

• 29:31Speaker 03

  It means, it means something, right? It's like, it's legit. She's like a one-person crowd, right? So, we're walking around, I was talking about, um, have you seen that Burt Kreischer, Free Burt? Have you seen his new series?

• 29:43Joe Rogan?

  I've only seen trailers, but everybody that saw it loves it.

• 29:45Speaker 03

  It's, it's, it's really funny, man, like, and so I was like, we should watch this, you should check it out. She watched like five minutes, she's like, this is such a dude show, fuck you, I'm never watching this.

• 29:56Speaker 03

  But it's the same, it's like, what I wanna watch and I think is funny, she's like, absolutely not. But then she's, wants to watch some, like, true crime thing around it, you know, a dude that killed his wife. And I'm like, they love it.

• 30:09Joe Rogan?

  Why do they love that?

• 30:12Speaker 03

  It's so weird.

• 30:13Joe Rogan?

  It's like genetic that they love it, cuz my kids love those shows.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  Really?

• 30:17Joe Rogan?

  They love serial killer expose shows and all these true crimes.

• 30:22Speaker 03

  And I don't like any of that.

• 30:23Joe Rogan?

  I was talking to my daughter about it, and she said, because girls don't do things like this, so we kind of wanna see, like, what's going on in a man's mind that makes him, it's such a mystery. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's such a mystery. Like, most men can imagine a scenario where there's a bunch of people that did some horrible shit in a room, and you just go in there and fucking kill all of them.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:49Joe Rogan?

  Most men.

• 30:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:50Joe Rogan?

  Most men can say, "Oh yeah, there's a place. There's a place." Like, if someone did something, and I knew they did something, and they're in that room, and they need to go, they need to go.

• 30:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:59Joe Rogan?

  Most women can't think like that. They don't, they don't think like that. It's not inside their head. And then there's the darkness of it. Like, these aren't men that are doing something to someone who deserves it. They're just doing it to vulnerable people. They're just evil creatures who just wanna go out and hunt vulnerable people. And I think women want to know that there are men like that out there that are so different than them, so they can put it in their head. Like, okay, serial killers are real.

• 31:27Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, these true crime shows have showed me this, and I wanna know, like, what to look for.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:34Joe Rogan?

  That's what I think.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  Whereas have you ever spent a second of your life in fear or fearing a serial killer?

• 31:40Joe Rogan?

  Not really.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  No?

• 31:42Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  It's not a realistic fear?

• 31:43Joe Rogan?

  But if I was at a truck stop, and there was some fucking shady dude that came into the bathroom after me, and he was, like, waiting outside, and it didn't look like he needed to use the bathroom, I'd be 100% on guard. Like, there's people that will just randomly kill people just for a thrill and get away with it. And I think there's way more of them getting away with it than they'd like us to know. Like, here's a, here's a good example. In Austin, what is the actual number of people who have bodies that have been found in Lady? Put this into our wonderful sponsor, Perplexity, before it becomes the digital god that takes over the universe, this AI.

• 32:25Joe Rogan?

  Um, what are the numbers of people that have been found drowned in Lady Bird Lake over the last three years? It's something crazy.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  Is it really?

• 32:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like 30.

• 32:37Speaker 03

  I thought this was just a funny joke for Tony to talk about.

• 32:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

• 32:41Speaker 03

  It's like a real thing.

• 32:43Joe Rogan?

  It's real.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:44Joe Rogan?

  It's real. So the cops don't wanna say it's a serial killer. They think there's, it's 'cause it's over by Rainy Street. A lot of people are partying. But there's, the bodies keep piling up. 38.

• 32:53Speaker 03

  What?

• 32:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  And they, they wanna say it's not a serial killer?

• 32:57Joe Rogan?

  Since 2022, data's showing at least 38 bodies found in or around Lady Bird Lake.

• 33:07Joe Rogan?

  Separate map based analysis of Lady Bird Lake deaths downtown area reports. Four deaths in 2022, five in 2023, five in 2024, two in 2025. So this is downtown area? These map numbers focus on a specific stretch of the lake? While the 38 body figures covers all bodies found in or around the lake in that period.

• 33:32Speaker 04

  These might be right near that bar area on Rainy.

• 33:34Joe Rogan?

  Right, right on Rainy Street, yeah. Or other parts of the lake.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  So they're basically saying, these guys get drunk and they end up passing out in the water.

• 33:45Joe Rogan?

  I mean, all you would have to do is get someone drunk enough where you could hold them underwater.

• 33:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:52Joe Rogan?

  It's not, I mean, if you were a guy who wasn't drinking, or you had a really good tolerance, or you're a big person. No evidence of serial murderer. Says the patterns match typical accidental drowning risks. Young adult men, nightlife, easy water access. Or some guy was drowning gay guys.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  Could be.

• 34:13Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of them are gay, like a giant percentage of these guys are gay.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:17Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's near a gay area. That's the gay, Rainy Street is like the party area where there's a lot of gay bars.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  Got it. That's why it's such a funny joke for Tony.

• 34:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it's, it's a weird thing, man. It's a weird thing because at what point in time does someone have to get caught? Before they say, oh, Jesus, these, these weren't just a coincidence. Someone was drowning people. Cause I don't think it was a common thing. I think like, you know, you maybe get one a year or some fucking drunk hops off a boat and doesn't know what he's doing and drowns. That does happen. But this is not that. This is way more. Thirty-eight bodies in a few years is kind of kooky.

• 34:54Speaker 03

  Well, and how many of those, if you think about it, right? How many serial killers are out there? Cause FBI, obviously, they've done the analysis on it. There's probably like a hundred, 200, 300 active serial killers at any point in time.

• 35:08Joe Rogan?

  Always, there's always, yeah, always has been.

• 35:10Speaker 03

  And most of them will all say, yeah, I wanted to get caught. Or, yeah, it took you long enough. Like I was, I was getting sloppy, right? My murder lust took over.

• 35:20Speaker 04

  There was 200 since 2004.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh. What?

• 35:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. Autopsy report found alcohol present in a large share of the cases, sometimes at levels above the legal driving limit, which is not much, by the way. Legal driving limit is like two drinks. And police specifically described most rainy street area drownings as alcohol or drug related.

• 35:45Speaker 04

  Also, I've heard people getting, you know, dosed. They get like roofied and whatnot and they're like, I've heard a lot, too many cases. Never in a city I've ever lived, I've heard that many people saying they've been roofied.

• 35:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. No, I think it's, I don't think it's specific to here. I think it's everywhere. It's GHB, I think is a lot of it. People are dosing people up with GHB. That's a big one.

• 36:07Speaker 04

  What's the, how many serial killers are there?

• 36:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. How many active serial killers do they estimate are in America right now? Let's guess. I'm gonna say 10.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  You think 10?

• 36:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 03

  I think 100.

• 36:21Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 36:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm going 100. This is like a Wheel of Fortune type scenario.

• 36:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man. Holy shit. 100's nuts. If it's 100.

• 36:28Speaker 03

  I think it's 100.

• 36:30Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 36:31Speaker 04

  300.

• 36:31Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 36:32Speaker 04

  Huh?

• 36:36Joe Rogan?

  25 to 50 at any given time.

• 36:38Speaker 04

  Wow, okay.

• 36:40Joe Rogan?

  Range reflects killers who have committed at least two murders with a cooling off period and are still operating undetected. I like the cooling off period. Man, maybe I need to take a break. Scrubbing the fucking blood out of the inside of your fingernails. Serial killings make up less than 1% of US homicides overall. Numbers peaked at around 300 in the 1970s, 1980s. There was 300 active serial killers in the 70s and the 80s? I bet that was because that was when it was like Son of Sam, you know?

• 37:11Speaker 03

  It was like trendy?

• 37:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I think it was probably a lot of bored dudes who just didn't like working in an office.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  It's like Ted Bundy and Son of Sam. All those guys were like the Green River.

• 37:21Joe Rogan?

  All over the news. All over the news, yeah. It was huge.

• 37:25Joe Rogan?

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• 38:10Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports app comes into play. It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action. With scores and play-by-play automatically showing up on your iPhone when the teams you follow are playing. That means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing, which is especially nice when you're following a bunch of teams and your friends are constantly blowing up the group chat.

• 38:52Joe Rogan?

  The Apple Sports app gives you all the important game details for your favorite sports teams, fast and simple. Download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone. Why are there fewer serial killers now than there used to be? What was the answer?

• 39:14Speaker 04

  That's probably just because it's easier to get caught now. People are probably more afraid to try.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, because you think about all the technology and the surveillance. Like, you get rolled up.

• 39:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 39:22Speaker 03

  You get a...

• 39:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think the creepiest one was that dude who studied serial killers in college and then went and killed those girls at that dorm house. You know, you know that story? What was that in Seattle? I think it was Idaho.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was Ted Bundy, right?

• 39:37Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, a recent one.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  Different? Oh, it was recent?

• 39:39Joe Rogan?

  Recent, yeah. Um, he knew the people that lived there. Uh, he studied, what did he study exactly? In college, like he was studying it like he was trying to learn how to not get caught.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 39:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this guy, this fucking freak.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 39:54Joe Rogan?

  He horrific new details about the final moments of the four University of Idaho stabbing victims.

• 40:00Speaker 03

  Oh, gosh, so that's where I'm to school, that's University of Idaho.

• 40:02Joe Rogan?

  He stabbed the four victims at least a hundred and fifty times in total.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  I didn't realize that was like the case from Moscow.

• 40:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Jesus Christ.

• 40:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:12Joe Rogan?

  This sick fuck. So this guy, he was studying it in college. So I forget what criminal justice, uh... Let's see if, uh, we can find out. But it was very clear that he had been planning this a long time. And there was also a possible connection to him and some murders from the Pacific Northwest. That they, he knew the people, the people died in a kind of a similar way. He might have gotten away with it up there.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 40:41Joe Rogan?

  So he tried it up there and then went to Idaho. He was a PhD criminology student.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh. Well, that makes sense.

• 40:48Joe Rogan?

  It does, right?

• 40:49Speaker 03

  So he's, he's educating himself on how to get away with it.

• 40:53Joe Rogan?

  He was that guy that if, uh, you had your comms class, he'd be sitting there like this.

• 40:58Speaker 03

  He's like way into it?

• 40:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, way into it, way into it.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  Oh, okay, yeah.

• 41:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he wanted to know all the details.

• 41:03Speaker 03

  Pacific Northwest is like, that's a spot. These guys love it up there. I don't know if it's like the rain, you know, like...

• 41:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, we had a lady that was connecting it. She came on the podcast and she was connecting a bunch of serial killers from a very specific area that did a lot of, it was mining, right? Wasn't it mining and the, the, uh, industrial pollution?

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Oh, so it was like increased, increased lead or something, right, in the water or something?

• 41:28Joe Rogan?

  What was the, the, the, the processing of it? Like...

• 41:33Speaker 03

  Oh, the...

• 41:34Joe Rogan?

  What are those, when they're burning it?

• 41:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:37Joe Rogan?

  What's that called? Leaching? Yeah, it was lead, but it was other stuff. It was other stuff, like there's arsenic in it and there's a lot of shit. But what am I looking for? Not, what is it? Why, why can't I come up with that term? The plants where they burn all the shit.

• 41:54Joe Rogan?

  Power plants. What's the term? God damn it.

• 41:57Speaker 04

  Caroline Fraser is her name though.

• 41:59Joe Rogan?

  What's her name?

• 42:00Speaker 04

  Caroline Fraser.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, Caroline Fraser. Paul would know if he got stamens on here and she could talk about, he could talk about the mushroom and the fungi in the Pacific Northwest. Maybe it has something to do with it.

• 42:11Joe Rogan?

  I don't think so. I think that'll probably stop him from doing it, but her take was that there was all these places. What is the term I'm looking for where they incinerate shit like a power plant, like a coal plant? There's a term. I can't remember what it is. Anyway, they're releasing incredible amount of toxins in the atmosphere. And a lot of this shit is coming down in rain. It's getting in the ground. All the ground around there is all polluted.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:35Joe Rogan?

  Everything's polluted. And so what her take is that all these people have suffered chemical pollution. And a lot of that chemical pollution leads to all sorts of weird psychological disorders and psychosis and all kinds of shit, depending upon the levels of exposure.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  So this is why you have an increase of serial killers in the Pacific Northwest?

• 42:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. There was a bunch of power plants up there.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 42:59Joe Rogan?

  Coal plants and smelting and, you know, just a lot of mining. There's a lot of mineral-rich resources up there and...

• 43:08Speaker 03

  So I should be concerned because I spent the most of my life up there? Well, half of it at least.

• 43:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It depends. I think now they've cleaned it up though. Like she was connecting it to a long time ago. But there's areas back there where she was saying that they do an analysis of the soil and it's just completely fucked.

• 43:24Speaker 03

  How long's it been since you've done like Seattle?

• 43:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I haven't been back in a while. I did the Tacoma Dome with Dave Chappelle. We did that right before the pandemic popped.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 43:37Joe Rogan?

  And I really haven't been back. It's just like, once that whole CHAZ thing went down and they locked off the block and the mayor said, maybe it's the summer of love. Or maybe you've got some fucking crazy people that you've empowered to take over a giant swath of your city and you're cool with it? And you're the fucking mayor? And by the way, she is an upgrade compared to their current mayor. The current mayor is, that choice is insane. A woman who's never held a real job, she's been living with her parents, she's 40. They pay her bills. She's a socialist. She rides a bike. She doesn't even own a car. And now she's in charge of what? A $7 billion budget? Like what is...

• 44:16Speaker 03

  That makes sense.

• 44:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 03

  I, I, two thumbs up, Seattle. Congratulations. You've, you've done a great job.

• 44:23Joe Rogan?

  I don't know where those places go. Those places that have gone like full into wokeville. Like a buddy of mine just went to Portland and he was like, bro, it's bananas. It's like a complete mental asylum, like spilled out onto the streets. Not just the campers, not just the open air drug users everywhere. Because for a long time, they decriminalized everything in Portland. So everybody ramped it up a notch and moved to Portland. Because that was a place where you could do drugs and not worry about anything. But he, he was like, all the regular people are cracked.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  The place, like, spending as much time as I have in Seattle, which I used to live there. I loved that city, like, late 90s, loved it.

• 45:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it was fucking great. It was one of my favorite places to visit.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  Such a cool spot.

• 45:05Joe Rogan?

  Cool people.

• 45:06Speaker 03

  And then you saw this flip. And it was right around 2010 is when things really flipped over. And that, to your point, they had, your car was your domicile. So you couldn't get a parking ticket. So you could basically live in front of somebody's house in a parking spot. And they couldn't ride a parking ticket.

• 45:23Joe Rogan?

  That started in 2010?

• 45:24Speaker 03

  Give it, give or take, couple of years. And so I went back to my, my, I had a house up there for a while. And the, the week, the day I decided that I was going to sell this place. Like, we fly up there, I've got my daughter, she's like a year old. My wife and I are walking down the street. And this is a part of the city, it's called Ballard, which is beautiful part of the city. Tons of like old bars, awesome place, back late 90s, early 2000s. But then, there was a camper in front of my condo. And then there was a naked man with a tennis racket with his, my daughter's a year old. His dick's flying around and my, my, my one year old's like, I'm holding her, like, walking away from the other end.

• 46:07Speaker 03

  He's got a tennis racket, he's like playing the US Open in his head, whatever he's doing. And then... On the corner, no less than 50 feet away, there was a half naked lady like taking a shit. And you're like, nah, time to leave. I think this is, I think we're all good here.

• 46:23Joe Rogan?

  We had an issue like that in California for a while.

• 46:25Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:25Joe Rogan?

  Where when the economy started to go south, now this is pre pandemic as well. We started having these campers camp out right in front of our studio. And they would, the studio where we had in LA, even that place, it was the warehouse. We had a big lawn in front of the warehouse and these guys would spread out on the lawn. So they would park their camper there and then they would like cook out and they would lay out. And so like you're in this, you're asking people to walk past these people to go do your podcast. In this big ass warehouse that I had leased. And I was like, why are you doing this? Like, you can't be doing this. You can't just use my lawn as your front yard. Like, this is crazy. I mean, spread out, dude. They had shit laying out there.

• 47:08Speaker 03

  There's nothing you can do.

• 47:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, there was.

• 47:11Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 47:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we contacted the police and the police, eventually they realized this is not a good thing. And they moved them all.

• 47:17Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 47:17Joe Rogan?

  But they moved them to different parts of town. And so then you would drive to like the more industrial areas of town. That didn't like, our place was like semi industrial. There was a bunch of warehouses, but there was also a bunch of like foot traffic businesses, restaurants and stuff like that. And so they moved them out of there. But if you go into the deeper industrial places where they have factories and stuff, they were, they were there. Like whole blocks of them where you just have campers laying out and just open meth smoking. These people are just full on meth heads that had just started a community of fellow meth enthusiasts. With campers and a lot of their campers didn't even run. They could just get it to the spot, wherever it was. And then they would steal power, you know, every now and then the dude would die. Cause he didn't know how to do the wires right and he'd get cooked.

• 48:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right. It's the same where we were at in Salt Lake. I'd have full time security out in front of the, literally in front of the building.

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  Our concern was when we left. It was like if we left at night and someone broke in, it would take fucking forever for cops to show up and do something about it. And so I was like, you can't just, you just can't have these guys knowing that like famous people and you know, high profile people are gonna be at that spot and you've got like open meth smoking, right in front of the place. Like this is too crazy.

• 48:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:33Joe Rogan?

  They're too unpredictable. You know, I look, I don't care if you live in your truck. It's probably cool. If you're a guy who's like, you've checked out of society essentially and you're just like playing pickleball all day and you live in a camper, who cares? Go ahead and do that. But, once you start engaging in meth smoking and then it's always theft. Theft comes with meth smoking. And there's a lot of break-ins in the area and it was, it got to a point where the cops had to do something. So credit to them that they did.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  It's almost a difference between hashtag van life and hashtag meth life.

• 49:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  Right? There's a big difference.

• 49:08Joe Rogan?

  Right. Van life is like you want to be a guy who's not saddled down to one particular spot. You have a place that's in this van that has a bed. You have a little tiny kitchen area. You have a little portable fridge. It's all you need. I don't need a fucking house. Just travel around. It's probably fun.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:27Joe Rogan?

  The freedom of it, you know? Like Alex Honnold, that crazy dude that just climbed that tower in, in Chinese Taipei. He used to live like that for a long time. He had a big van. He would park in his friend's driveway sometimes and he would just travel to Trailheads and live out, live out of his van.

• 49:44Speaker 03

  That's like the minimalist attraction, right? Where you're like, I don't have anything other than what's in my van or on my back. Where life is simple. I don't have to organize anything. I can stay focused. I, I think that's a, it's an interesting thought exercise, especially when you're younger. You're like, okay, cool. I can wrap my head around that.

• 50:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  And it's completely respectable. A lot of these hippies, I shouldn't say that in the context of like hippie dance around in flowers in my hair. A lot of these like climber, crunchy guys. They are hard committed, like bad mofo's.

• 50:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  When they're living on dog food, like, there's this great story about the founder of Patagonia, where he went to the store, he was climbing El Cap, and I'm trying to recall a story from Outside Magazine from, you know, 20 years ago, but in general circumstance is what it is, where he went to the store, he's gonna be climbing El Cap for months, and he's just working on a specific route. And he went to the store to buy food, he only had 100 bucks or whatever it was, and dog food was less expensive, and he was like, "Meh, I can live on that." And he bought dog food and lived on dog food.

• 50:53Joe Rogan?

  And just lived on kibble.

• 50:54Speaker 03

  And, yeah, so he could climb and stay out there longer.

• 50:58Joe Rogan?

  I wonder what his farts were like.

• 51:00Speaker 03

  Bro. Like, you wouldn't want to be behind that on this route, right? You would not want to be climbing behind that guy, I'll tell you that.

• 51:06Joe Rogan?

  Because I stopped giving my dog regular dog food a long time ago, but when he was younger, all my dogs, I would just buy the most expensive dried dog food. It was like, "Oh, this stuff is good." And then somewhere along the line, it clicked, I was like, "Wait, how can it sit there? How can it just sit in that bag for a month? That's crazy. How could it sit on the shelf for years? That's nuts. That can't be good for you." And then I started feeding him frozen food, and then, they like that, but then I switched to Farmer's Dog, which is human-grade food, which is lightly cooked, they fucking love it. That stuff I would eat. Like, you smell it, it smells like food, it doesn't smell disgusting.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 51:45Joe Rogan?

  But, regular dog food is fucking terrible for a dog.

• 51:49Speaker 03

  It's gross.

• 51:49Joe Rogan?

  It's not good for them. So if you have to eat that stuff, that kibble stuff, and you're gonna travel around, your gut must be going like, "What are you doing? What kind of chemicals are in here? What kind of preservatives are there, they're just nuking your gut biome?"

• 52:05Speaker 03

  The level, I, but I, I love the level of commitment.

• 52:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's nuts.

• 52:10Speaker 03

  I love, like, when people drift over into, like, crazy,

• 52:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:14Speaker 03

  to where their level of commitment and their passion, like, translates directly into, nothing else exists in their life, and they're willing to live on dog food, to do the thing that they, they love.

• 52:25Joe Rogan?

  Fun.

• 52:25Speaker 03

  That, to me, is like... You're, you're, you're an extremist and I respect it. I'm like, you know what? Hey.

• 52:31Joe Rogan?

  No, I can respect that. Do you ever see the movie Dirtbag?

• 52:34Speaker 03

  No.

• 52:35Joe Rogan?

  Um, pull up that movie Dirtbag. It's a great movie. It's about a guy who essentially did that till he was dead. This guy just camped out on the ground in front of his friends' houses. Most of the time didn't have a car, but just would just just climb. That's all he did. He was always mooching off people and he had very detailed. What was the dude's name?

• 52:56Speaker 04

  Fred Becky.

• 52:57Joe Rogan?

  Fred Becky. The dude's a legend.

• 52:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:59Joe Rogan?

  So he had been doing this from, you know, the 19 fucking 50s. Like he was an old ass man.

• 53:04Speaker 03

  Look at this guy.

• 53:05Joe Rogan?

  Look at the gnarled hands. Look at his fucking hands.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  Solid.

• 53:09Joe Rogan?

  From just climbing. Imagine if that guy got a hold of your dick. He'd rip it right off.

• 53:14Speaker 03

  But this. Do you know who Mark Twight is?

• 53:17Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 53:17Speaker 03

  Okay, so Mark Twight.

• 53:19Joe Rogan?

  Look at this fucking guy.

• 53:20Speaker 03

  He was, I mean, one of the foremost names in alpinating. Like he's, he's written several books on it. He wrote a book called Kiss or Kill: Confessions of a Serial Climber back in the day. Very, very similar. Like in the context of, I would imagine the, the psychological makeup. And he started a, a gym called Jim Jones back in the day. And like, it was where a bunch of people, you had, it was invite only. So you could only get invited and it's like a lot of special operations guys, CIA guys, and professional climbers, like everybody that was trying to push the envelope physically would go out and train with Mark. And I've been friends with him for years, but anything Mark does, he moves from like,

• 54:06Speaker 03

  I'm going to be the best climber, like alpinating. I'm going to be the subject matter expert. He was a professional, uh, he shot IPSIC for a while. So he's a professional, you know, pistol shooter for a while. He's a professional climber. And now he's a photographer, writer, but everything he does, he does it to a level of perfection that it probably drives everybody else in his life bananas. Like, he's fascinating. He's a fascinating human.

• 54:32Joe Rogan?

  Those people that go really to the outer level of whatever's possible with whatever the fuck they're doing are always fascinating.

• 54:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:39Joe Rogan?

  Cause it makes you go, I don't know if I want to do it. Like, what is the sacrifice to get really good at rock climbing? You never have kids, you never have a life, you never have a child. Like, this dirtbag guy, like, everyone around him both admired him and felt sad for him.

• 54:55Speaker 03

  Right.

• 54:55Joe Rogan?

  Because, like, he died a dirtbag. He never had a family, and it's like all his ex-girlfriends talking about how an interesting guy he was. He was really fun, but eventually, I have to fucking move on. Like, this dude, all he wanted to do was, like, sleep on the ground and get up and start climbing rocks. His whole life.

• 55:14Speaker 03

  But there's, if you think about everybody around us in their profession or their thing, right? You're at the apex of your professional, your profession. And your level of commitment, I'm not, like, boosting you up, I'm just saying, like, your level of commitment is unparalleled to a huge percentage of other people. So you have a portion of whatever that is, and there are all these other people that have that thing, where their pursuit of passion around that specific profession or product, whatever it might be, they're so committed to it that it takes over, it's all-consuming.

• 55:49Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:51Speaker 03

  I mean, I've seen it, because when, even when you go play pool, I'm like, when we were in Vegas a couple of months ago, they're like, "Oh, we're going to play pool," and I'm like, "I'm out." He's gonna be there till, like, 6 o'clock in the morning, "I'm not gonna do that." And Green Tree was like, "He was, he was there till, like, 6 o'clock in the morning." Played for eight hours straight. I was like, "Yeah, I could see the writing on the wall, I'm out of here."

• 56:11Joe Rogan?

  The pool is my number-one problem, that's my biggest one.

• 56:14Speaker 03

  Really?

• 56:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the one where if I, if I ever wanted to not do anything else, I would just become a professional pool player. If I just said, "Okay, I am done, I'm done podcasting, I'm done with the UFC, I'm done with everything. I'm just gonna travel around and do tournaments."

• 56:28Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  I could, I could go crazy, I could go crazy and just do that, 100%.

• 56:35Speaker 03

  Is it just the, the game fascinates you, the angles, the ability to, like...

• 56:41Speaker 03

  Just continue to evolve within that all the time? You can't ever be the best?

• 56:45Joe Rogan?

  You definitely never achieve full perfection. But to be really good requires this level of laser focus and concentration and an understanding of what's going on. I mean, you're taking a stick and you're hitting a ball into another ball with pinpoint accuracy into a pocket that is, on my table, it's four and a quarter inches. So you've got the cue, the ball, the object ball, which is about that big, and then you've got that much space on each side, just a tiny little space on each side, and you've got to slip it through there. Oftentimes, like eight feet away, seven feet away, six feet away with English. So you're putting spin on the cue ball, which imparts a throw on the object ball.

• 57:28Joe Rogan?

  So if I put right-hand spin on the cue ball and I hit the object ball, I have to calculate for the fact that it's going to throw the object ball slightly to the left because of the right-hand spin, because it clings to the ball a little bit. And shoot, so all this is playing in my head. And then I have to have it at a speed where, once the cue ball then collides with the object ball, pockets it, then it's got to go one, two, three rails for perfect position on the next ball. And I have to have an angle. I have to make sure that I have an angle for the following ball.

• 57:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 57:57Joe Rogan?

  And you don't want to be trapped on the rails. You want to be off the rails. It's like all these different things. You can't think about anything else. Your mind has to be clean. It cleans your mind. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Look, there's a lot of pressure when it comes to dating, especially in February. But you're putting too much on yourself and on your partner. There's no such thing as a perfect relationship, whether you're on a first date or have been together for years. It's completely normal to go through rough patches. And what matters is how you deal with them. And therapy can be a huge help during any stage of your dating life. You can figure out what you want in a partner or get perspective for a growing problem in your relationship. The point is, you don't have to come up with a solution by yourself.

• 58:42Joe Rogan?

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• 59:12Speaker 03

  So if you've gotten, I'm sure you have, like professional

• 59:16Joe Rogan?

  Coaching.

• 59:17Speaker 03

  Players, yeah, coaching, guys have come out, like the best in the world have come out and played with you.

• 59:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 59:21Speaker 03

  How do you hold up? Like, what's your?

• 59:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, I can never beat them.

• 59:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 59:25Joe Rogan?

  Uh, but I beat them some games. I can break and run out. So I break and run out one, two games in a row sometimes. And but they'll make, so like, if you have like a score of accuracy, it's called like a Fargo rating. It's based on a thousand points is you never miss. I am in like the 700, on a good day, 750 range. But a real world-class pro is in the 800-plus range. Like, um, Fedor Goris is probably like 850, Joshua Fillers probably like a little higher than that. They get into this rate where they so rarely miss. And again, they're playing on four-inch pockets, which is like a quarter inch smaller than the pockets I'm playing on.

• 1:00:09Joe Rogan?

  Although they are playing on new cloth, which helps a lot. Makes things more slippery. They fall in more, more worn-out cloth. Like, when it's broken in for a couple of weeks, it gets tougher.

• 1:00:19Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:00:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, the cloth gets a little less slick and you gotta hit a ball a little bit more pure. But on the plus side, English takes better.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  So when you play with these guys, is it one of those things where they like instantly humble you in the context of, you start feeling, I'm really confident in my game, and then you step in?

• 1:00:40Joe Rogan?

  No, not really, no.

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  There's not that big of a delta between?

• 1:00:43Joe Rogan?

  There's a gap. There's definitely a gap. I mean, they're just way better than me. But it's, it's a lot of it. It's just time. They spend eight hours a day playing, every day. If I spent eight hours a day playing every day, I think I could play at a professional level. I wouldn't be able to beat the best guys.

• 1:00:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:01:00Joe Rogan?

  I would never be able to beat like the Koping Chongs and the guys that are at the very top top. Cause those guys have been playing eight hours a day for decades. They never stop.

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  What's a guy like that make annually in tournaments?

• 1:01:13Joe Rogan?

  Now more than ever.

• 1:01:15Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:01:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because of Matchroom Pool. So Matchroom, the same company that Eddie Hearn owns that does a lot of boxing promotions. They're involved in a lot of sports. They've done an amazing job with pool, specifically with nine ball. And they put on these huge tournaments. Saudi Arabia has a big one every year. They have this big world championship where they pay a ton of money. And so, you know, a good player, like a top of the heap player is making a half a million dollars plus a year.

• 1:01:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:01:42Joe Rogan?

  And then also endorsements. So they have endorsements, like companies like Predator Q's pay them. Q Tech and all those different companies pay them X amount of dollars per year. They have a sponsor for the chalk they use. They have a sponsor for the tips they play with, all those different things. All that adds up.

• 1:02:00Speaker 03

  So what's the difference then between, what is it, snooker? Is that the English?

• 1:02:03Joe Rogan?

  That's a totally different game.

• 1:02:04Speaker 03

  It's totally different.

• 1:02:05Joe Rogan?

  It's a big table. It's a 12 by 6 as opposed to a 4 and a half by 9. So it's a much bigger table, but the balls are smaller as well. And then their cues have these tiny little tips on them. They all play with ash cues, which is like a very stiff wood. And they play with like a solid wood cue. Whereas a lot of like pro pool players have switched to carbon fiber now. They play with carbon fiber cues. Cause it's like it's a little bit more dense, so it moves the ball differently.

• 1:02:34Speaker 03

  Is it fun? Have you played it?

• 1:02:36Joe Rogan?

  Snooker?

• 1:02:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I played it when I was in Scotland a little bit. Uh, but I only played by myself. There was just a table and I was just whacking balls around. It's very difficult to pocket balls, but I don't even really understand the rules. I would have to really pay attention. I watch it a little bit sometimes because I know how hard it is to do what they're doing. Cause you do have this enormous table. Their cloth is a lot slower too. It's not as slick of a cloth.

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  So is it, it's gotta be older then, right?

• 1:03:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's way, it's old. Snooker's old. So the original billiards game had no pockets. The original billiards game was three cushion billiards, or balk line, or there's a bunch of different billiards games. We play on a table, like say it was like this table, there's no pockets in it and there's just rubber rails all around it. And it's all about knocking one ball into the other ball, going three rails, and then colliding with the third ball.

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 1:03:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's just about scoring points. I've watched a bunch of that online too, because it helps you understand angles, like as you go into a rail. Because the angles change depending upon how much English you put on it, how hard you hit it, whether you hit it with follow or draw. There's a bunch of different, like, parts of the cue ball that you can contact with that radically changes the way the ball moves around on the table. So it's like you're calculating so many different things. There's geometry involved, there's touch and feel. There's like, there's all these factors that come into play when you're playing really well.

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  So that explains why archery is also somewhat of a fascination then, because you have very similar aspects to archery and pool that directly translate. That's like, why those things snap together real well for you.

• 1:04:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for me, they're hand in hand. They're basically the same thing. It's basically the same thing, you're just doing it in a different way. You know, you're, it's the same thing, it's like having everything just flowing together perfectly after like years and years and years of meticulous practice and then it starts to come together.

• 1:04:43Joe Rogan?

  And then you pull that group out, it's nice and tight, like 65 yards, like yeah. You got it dialed in, it's that feeling. And it's the same thing, it was the world goes away. There is no room for anything when you're about to pull that trigger. Whether it's in pool where you're about to make the shot, or whether it's in archery, there's no room for anything. That's what I like about it. I also like that there's no bullshit. There's no shenanigans. There's no personality. There's not, nothing matters. Nothing matters. Did the ball go in the hole? If it didn't, you lose. If it did, you win. It's really clean. I like that.

• 1:05:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, that's the thing I love about, like, shooting just in general. If I'm hitting a target, it doesn't matter. I took my kids to the arcade the other day. And, uh, Ski Ball.

• 1:05:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, I love Ski Ball.

• 1:05:30Speaker 03

  I could like spend an hour on that thing, just like.

• 1:05:33Joe Rogan?

  Just trying to get that perfect lob.

• 1:05:35Speaker 03

  Perfect lob in there and it's, it's like, I used to tell people, I'm like, I'm just a projectile enthusiast where I, I love hitting center mass of whatever target. I'm still a six-year-old kid with my BB gun, right? It's like, at the end of the day, now my tools are, are, you know, much more advanced and I've got, you know, the millions of dollars of government-funded training behind me, so I'm a little bit more effective at hitting what I want to shoot at. But it still has the same, the same exact feeling. Like, if you're six years old, hitting a pop can with your BB gun, or ringing a piece of steel at a mile with a rifle, or hitting a, you know, the, the heart of a foam elk in your backyard, it's the same, dude.

• 1:06:16Speaker 03

  It translates and it like pulls you into something that's like pure, I guess.

• 1:06:21Joe Rogan?

  It is pure and it's also a really good mind exercise. Just like, you know, when you work out, you're cleaning your mind. There's a lot of what working out is, is not just physical, it's mental clarity. You, uh, relax the mind, you calm the mind through hard exercise. And there's something where you're calming your mind through shooting. Because it requires so much of you, everything else just gets, get the fuck out of the way. Bills, this, that, you know, oh, I gotta call that guy, I don't want to call him, fuck, I gotta deal with this thing, oh, that's falling apart, this deal sucks. It all goes away. It has to go away. If it doesn't go away, you miss. And then you go, fuck, why did I miss? You miss because you're distracted. Like, let's focus, put the fucking arrow on the knock, you know,

• 1:07:07Joe Rogan?

  put it in there, draw it back, center it, calm, relax. At that moment, like, at that moment, there is nothing else in your fucking head. There's nothing. And then, and it goes in there, you get this. This nice burst of happiness when you watch that fucking arrow just drop right in exactly where you want it to like and then you go and pull the arrows and you go right back and start it again and at the end of that practice, I feel way better. I just always feel better. I always feel clearer. My, my head works better. It's just like, it's a focus exercise with, which excites all your synapses. And then on top of that, it's a mental clearing thing. Like Fred Berry used to talk about that.

• 1:07:51Joe Rogan?

  Like something about, I forget the quote, but it's something about, there's nothing like shooting a bow that clears a man's mind. It's totally true. There's something about archery in particular that just cleans your mind.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I, I a hundred percent agree. I, I used to have this trad bow. Like that's how I started. Have I told you this story? Like, so I'd stuff the old coffee bags, the burlap coffee bags, stuff them up and fill them up. And then I started shooting a trad bow originally. While the roasting cycle takes about eight, eight and a half minutes. So I couldn't really do anything. I'm like watching the, you know, coffee roast, which is just tumbling in a big dryer. And so I'd just shoot a trad bow in the back to just focus something other than the business, uh, you know, family, whatever it is. I could just shoot my trad bow and then Dudley was like, why do you shoot that thing? It's so stupid. Like, don't you like to hit what you shoot at? And I'm like, I'm just doing it for fun, man. Like, you know, I'm,

• 1:08:47Speaker 03

  I'm that happy-go-lucky guy. I just wanna like active form of meditation. But what, what I did realize was it was such a pure, to your point, it would flush out all this negative shit that I was like either working through or dealing, dealing with. That's like, so being able to translate that to other people, especially veterans, huge, huge transformation for guys. Cause they can go out, it's quiet. It's a subculture they can be part of. They can geek out on all the. New gear and arrowheads, you wade into the infinite, never-ending debate around bullshit, around cutting surface area, fucking, you know, mass and velocity and like, you'll never

• 1:09:31Speaker 03

  get tired because it's like full of its own little drama and it's like a bunch of nerd shit that you can actually have a lot of fun with.

• 1:09:37Joe Rogan?

  So much nerd shit. That's what people don't understand. You know, and they don't expect nerd shit, like real complicated technical nerd shit from archery. You don't think of it that way. But it's like many things. Like, once you get into it, you realize like, oh, this is a learning curve to this motherfucker. There's a lot involved. Like, whenever one of my friends is like, "I wanna go bow hunting," I'm like, "Do you really? Are you sure?" Like, don't tell me you do. Like, it's not that you gotta dive in off of a cliff. This is not like I'm gonna go dip my waters into bow hunting. I wanna go shoot an elk. Like, Jesus Christ, do you know how hard that is to do? You got fucking, there's so many moving

• 1:10:19Joe Rogan?

  parts, there's so many things. You have to be proficient under extreme stress. There's so much going on there, man. Don't tell me you wanna do that unless you, you gotta, you gotta show me before I get involved. Take me bow hunting. That's not happening. You are not gonna be stomping on twigs near me and you're not gonna be going, you're not gonna be not checking the wind. All these things are not going to happen.

• 1:10:42Speaker 03

  Well, they, they like the idea, right? Like, they like, and there's plenty of people, they're like, they're, they're, they're window shoppers in this activity, right? They're like, they're walking by and they're like, "That looks cool."

• 1:10:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:10:53Speaker 03

  But they don't like the realities of what it actually takes because it's so fucking hard. And it like ruins you a lot of times. Like, I mean, in the last few years, we've hunted enough together, like, dude, I've been psychologically ruined by like, shooting something or making a bad shot or like, just devastating.

• 1:11:13Joe Rogan?

  Missing, yeah. It's like you can't figure out why you missed.

• 1:11:16Speaker 03

  No, and then you're, you're running through it a thousand, a thousand times. Like, "What did I do? Okay, how do I do better?" And then you're like, "Okay."

• 1:11:24Joe Rogan?

  But you're the kind of guy that does that, that does the process in your head and then improves and keeps getting better. For some people, that that will ruin their life. Like, the one bad thing that happens will ruin their fucking life. Because they spent all these months preparing, they paid for a tag, they hired an outfitter, and then, dunk dunk the shot, fucking ruined their whole week, and then they go back home. "How'd your hunt go? Oh, I missed." You know, like, "Or I wounded it."

• 1:11:52Speaker 03

  Well, and it's it's a it's a it's a lesson in life. Like, you can work harder than you've ever worked.

• 1:11:59Joe Rogan?

  And still fail.

• 1:12:00Speaker 03

  And still fail.

• 1:12:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:01Speaker 03

  You can work for a decade of your life, you can shoot and shoot and train and train, and you can put in all the work and still fuck it up.

• 1:12:10Joe Rogan?

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• 1:12:55Joe Rogan?

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• 1:13:39Joe Rogan?

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• 1:14:23Joe Rogan?

  This offer is for new customers only. And there's guys who, in the same situation as you, would succeed. Yeah. So you gotta figure out what's, what are they doing different? Why are they better? Keep, and then keep getting better. Like, there's hunts that I've been successful on recently, you know, within the last few years, that I know that if I had that same hunt eight, nine years ago, I probably would have not been able to make that shot. Right. I'm not, I wasn't as good then, so I've gotten better. It's like, I think everybody needs something that you can't master, that is hard to do, that, that cleans your mind. I think people need stuff to clean their mind, and I think that's why so many people are running around all fucked up.

• 1:15:07Joe Rogan?

  Because you're looking at social media all day, so that gives you anxiety. Your, your life is not satisfying, so that gives you anxiety. You don't care, take care of your body, so that gives you anxiety. You have all these things, you're stuck in traffic, that gives you anxiety. Everybody's just mentally all fucked up, and so you go to a doctor, and the doctor says, "Well, you know, you obviously, you're dealing with depression, and I could prescribe to you this or that," and then you're on Lexapro, or whatever the fuck you're on. And that's the road they go down, and this is a bad road. It's not a road where you're gonna improve your life. And there's other ways to do it. And I think there'd be a lot more happy people in this world if you found a thing. It doesn't have to be archery, it doesn't have to be pool, it doesn't have to be jujitsu,

• 1:15:52Joe Rogan?

  it doesn't have to be pistol shooting. It just has to be something that's hard to do, that you are on this quest to make these incremental improvements. And through that focus of incremental improvements, you improve your human potential. You improve your ability as a person to do difficult and to handle situations. So I always tell people, if you do jujitsu, you'll be much happier. Because the stresses of life are nothing compared to a dude who's trying to literally break your arm. He's on top of you, and you're defending, and then you get out of it, and then you get him, or he gets you, and then you have to tap, and you go over again.

• 1:16:34Joe Rogan?

  That is so hard to do, that like, regular life becomes like a breeze. It becomes a breeze. It makes everything... Jujitsu people are some of the most relaxed people I've ever been around in my life. They're all friendly to everybody, they're never talking shit or causing drama, problems. They get it all out.

• 1:16:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think there's something about getting the shit kicked out of yourself too, right? So, like, there's something about facing someone, which I don't do jujitsu, just, you know, as a caveat to that. But being able to like, face another person in any scenario and then compete against them.

• 1:17:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:11Speaker 03

  So, where everything counts. And then, literally, just getting the shit beat out of yourself. And going, okay, well, I'm gonna step back up, I'm gonna do it again. Right?

• 1:17:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and get better.

• 1:17:22Speaker 03

  That level of teaching yourself mental endurance, like, that is the thing that I constantly think about my kids. Like, I'm like, how do I... Be compassionate, caring, loving, you know, the dad that wants to give them everything. And then how do you like translate that into also creating obstacles that will drive mental courage, right? Just courage.

• 1:17:44Joe Rogan?

  I think you do it by example. I think that's the best way. Yeah.

• 1:17:50Joe Rogan?

  My opinion is, like, if you look at Cam Haynes' sons. I mean, he was rough raising his kids. He talks about that, but those kids are exceptional. They're fucking exceptional.

• 1:18:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:00Joe Rogan?

  You know, one son's a ranger, the other son broke the world chin up record and, you know, he runs marathons with jeans on and like, he's fucking got two savage kids. And why? Well, look at the environment they grew up in.

• 1:18:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:18:14Joe Rogan?

  They grew up in a, with a dad who's supremely disciplined. And just by being in his presence, you realize like, oh, I can achieve a lot more than other people can if I'm just willing to put in that work. And for a lot of people, that's, that feeling, that feeling of like this, the anxiety of the struggle and of grinding it out and like, that scares them and they don't want to do it. And so they come up in excuses or they retreat into other things and, you know, they distract themselves. And if you're a parent that does that, you create a weird environment for your child because your child is sort of imitating you as a leader.

• 1:18:55Joe Rogan?

  And you're a fuck up and you're always making excuses and you get fired a lot or you sleep in a lot or you do things that like are not admirable. And then that child, you know, fuck life, man, you know? Whereas, you know, his kids are probably like, Jesus Christ, dad's a fucking animal. Like, I want to be an animal too. And then you see how people respect his father and they go, oh, okay, I want, I want people to respect me like that too. You know, you hear what people talk about him when he's not around, like, oh, I want people to respect me.

• 1:19:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:19:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's only one way to do that. You have to be worthy of respect. It's only one way to get there. It's a fucking long road. Good luck, start going. And you're not going to get any satisfaction for a long ass fucking time, other than the fact that you're on the path, that you're on, you're involved in the process and you're on the journey.

• 1:19:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, the grind, right? And it's like, it's overused, but the level of endurance in courage, when it's like, that trade alone, just trying to understand courage, like, who has it, who doesn't have it? And then the level of commitment to a mission, or something bigger than yourself. It's, it's, it's the thing that I think about, I'd say, a huge percentage of, of the last several years. Especially, you know, as I get a little bit older, right? A little bit further away from the GWAT. And I was with, I'm doing a documentary on Earl Plumley. You know who that is? No.

• 1:20:27Speaker 03

  So he's a Medal of Honor recipient, former Green Beret. We were at the UFC fight with Elliott Miller and Earl Plumley. Earl Plumley's an incredibly humble guy, like, just an amazing human. Like, you can sit here and talk to him, you'd never, in a million years, know that this guy had earned the Medal of Honor. Never. Like, because, one, he's never gonna tell you. Two, he's gonna ask you 100 questions about you, and be way more fascinated with that. And two, and three, you know, we were having this conversation. He's like, man, it belongs to the guys. Like, I didn't do anything. Like, it belongs to the guys. Like, the guys, any of the guys, if they wouldn't have been shot,

• 1:21:11Speaker 03

  would have done the same exact thing that I did. And I was like, man, that is an incredible statement from, you know, a guy that's sitting here. And so this documentary follows his path from joining the Marine Corps, which was literally where the, the judge, you know, those, those old stories of the guy that was like forced by the judge to join the military or jail? He literally has that. And it starts, he goes into, you know, the Marines, and then he's a Force Recon Marine, and he, he had gone through all the selections. And then he got out of the Marine Corps, joined the Army. And we follow his story through the eyes of his peers and his leaders.

• 1:21:50Speaker 03

  Because we wanted to see from his perspective, what do other people say about him through his entire journey? Not the story from his perspective. One, he'll never tell it the way that it probably needs to be told. Two, what were the choices that he made throughout his professional life that made the man that was capable of such an incredible act of courage that it warranted the highest medal, literally earned in the United States military? And that single word, courage, how do you build courageous people? Yeah. Is a fascinating, it's quite literally, it's such a fascinating subject.

• 1:22:34Speaker 03

  And most of it is, it's the man in the arena, right? It's that poem from Teddy Roosevelt. It's like, it's not the critic who counts. It's like, keeping up, stepping back in, this commitment to something greater than yourself, and then making these thousands of choices in your life, every day as you wake up, step forward, step back into the fray, and like, make the active decision to be better. And it's like, it's such a fucking fundamental thing of being able to, any part of your life. If you don't get up in the morning and like, commit yourself to something, I'm not a motivational speaker, but it's, how are you ever gonna get better?

• 1:23:18Speaker 03

  If you're not committing to something, like being a better dad, or a better husband, or better, you know, better at your profession? And then committing to this evolutionary process takes not only a huge amount of commitment, but mental and physical endurance. It does. And I'm never gonna get tired of trying to figure this out, because obviously, it's like, my peer set, I was having this conversation with, Jack Carr and I ran into the airport. We ran into each other at the airport on the way down here, and we were talking about- Fucking love that guy. Fucking such a good dude. And- It's not just in the military, right? It's not. It's just...

• 1:24:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, in all of life.

• 1:24:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, all of life.

• 1:24:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you find exceptional people in all of life and you can... They're fuel. Those people are fuel. And they enhance the lives of the people around them. And then if you become one of those guys, you enhance the lives of the people around you. And then you feed off of them and they feed off of you. And everybody feeds off of each other. And it's so good for you to know that people like that are out there. That there's a guy like that capable of incredible courage. And that, how did he get there? What did he do? How did he become the man he is right now? Because, goddamn, that's an admirable man. So how do I...

• 1:24:37Speaker 03

  How'd he get there?

• 1:24:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:40Speaker 03

  And there's all these stories. Like, Jack and I were talking about... Because, you know, the Navy SEALs, obviously, they've got a lot of positive PR over the last several years. But the special operations community's got so much, just, I don't know, airtime, right? But there are all these other people in the military throughout, you know, generations of warfighters that have gone out and done these incredibly hard jobs. And I found this story of the Parchi, which is the USS Parchi, which is the most decorated submarine and ship in Navy history. They have nine presidential citations. It's the most decorated group of men in the US Navy, like, in modern history.

• 1:25:24Speaker 03

  And everything they've done is still classified.

• 1:25:26Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:25:27Speaker 03

  It's a Cold War-era nuclear submarine that was modified and ultimately tasked out by the CIA to go out and do collection. And they were the guys that, hundreds of feet down, they would land on the bottom of the ocean. And the Soviets had these military communication lines that were basically hard lines that would go under a bay so they could communicate back and forth. And they felt like they were secure. And one of their jobs, which is, I've never been able to see anything, you know, declassified, but the stories that are out there, these guys would land on the bottom of the ocean, send out divers at hundreds of feet.

• 1:26:09Speaker 03

  And these guys would hook listening devices on those lines hundreds of feet down, like in cold, dark water. Can you imagine, dude? Like, you're out in 400 feet or 300 feet of water, pitch black, you can't see anything, and your job is to go and put a listening device on a Soviet communication line in 1986, or whatever it was.

• 1:26:32Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:26:33Speaker 03

  And you're in enemy territory. So if you get discovered, you're dead. And none of these guys, that's the incredible thing, none of these guys have ever said anything about it.

• 1:26:46Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:26:47Speaker 03

  Decades, and not only decades of missions, months away from home, none of these guys have said a fucking thing. They've not been on a podcast, they've not written any books, and the only thing they say is, "Yeah, we did a lot of incredible shit, still can't talk about it."

• 1:27:04Speaker 03

  Unbelievable, man.

• 1:27:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:08Speaker 03

  I've been able to see, I can go out and do shit, and like, you still have the ability to see. I can't imagine being in like, 300 feet of water.

• 1:27:15Joe Rogan?

  Pitch black.

• 1:27:16Speaker 03

  Pitch black. If you, if you lose a glove, right, or something goes wrong, how are you gonna get back to the boat? Like, and you're gonna have to get back to the boat and then get back into American territory without being discovered. And more, more importantly, you're gonna do this how many times over the course of your career?

• 1:27:36Joe Rogan?

  And are, does the listening device require them to gather the information while they're at the bottom of the ocean, or does it transmit?

• 1:27:43Speaker 03

  I think it transmits. Yeah.

• 1:27:45Joe Rogan?

  That's much more convenient.

• 1:27:47Speaker 03

  It's not, it's not been declassified, so who knows?

• 1:27:50Joe Rogan?

  Right, who knows?

• 1:27:50Speaker 03

  And they don't talk about it.

• 1:27:52Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:27:52Speaker 03

  They don't talk about it.

• 1:27:53Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:27:54Speaker 03

  I was talking to, uh, Jack and I were talking about it, and, um, I was like, "Have you ever heard about this?" And, you know, he's a retired Navy guy. He's like, "No, I've never heard about it." I'm like, "That's my point. It's an incredible story, man." Like, these guys are still buttoned up, not saying a fucking word.

• 1:28:11Joe Rogan?

  They picked the right guys.

• 1:28:12Speaker 03

  They picked the right guys.

• 1:28:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's guys like that out there.

• 1:28:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they don't have to be famous either. There's a lot of people out there. They just, they're, you know.

• 1:28:22Speaker 03

  They're just doing the mission.

• 1:28:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:24Speaker 03

  They'd come home, not tell their families.

• 1:28:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:26Speaker 03

  Their wives would be pissed off, what are you doing? Out, out on the boat with all your friends for months, just hanging out, hot racking, you know?

• 1:28:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:34Speaker 03

  Like, I can't say anything.

• 1:28:36Joe Rogan?

  You have to have the right wife.

• 1:28:38Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:28:39Joe Rogan?

  If you don't have a woman that can understand that, that becomes a real problem.

• 1:28:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm sure a lot of them ended up in divorce.

• 1:28:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Well, you know, that was part of the Bob Lazar story. The Bob Lazar was the guy that worked at Area 51.

• 1:28:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:52Joe Rogan?

  He couldn't tell his wife what he was doing. And they would call him at like 10:00 PM. Uh, there's a flight for you that leaves at 11:15, be at the airport. You know, and he had to leave. And he would tell his wife, I gotta go to work. And she's like, it's 11 o'clock at night. He's like, I have to go to work. What are you doing? He's like, I can't talk about it. Cause all his phones were bugged, everything was bugged.

• 1:29:11Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:29:12Joe Rogan?

  So his wife was like, this motherfucker's cheating on me. She, she, she starts fucking her flight instructor. And that's one of the reasons why they removed him from his duties. Because they're like, this guy's gonna be unstable. We have to see how he handles this because he's involved in this top secret back engineering of a flying saucer program, allegedly. And we have to, uh, you know, keep an eye on this motherfucker because he, he can't be mentally unstable and have this kind of responsibility. Cause he couldn't tell her, couldn't tell her anything.

• 1:29:45Speaker 03

  He can't tell anybody.

• 1:29:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then eventually he took her to the, the, the sites where he could, he explained to everybody when he thought that his life was in danger. And then he was getting fired. When things started getting sideways, like people need to know about this, he took her out there and he showed her. But it was, he didn't know that she was fucking some other guy by the, by that time.

• 1:30:02Speaker 03

  That's so unfortunate.

• 1:30:03Joe Rogan?

  Unfortunate, yeah.

• 1:30:05Speaker 03

  Look, this is what I'm doing. I wonder if that actually would.

• 1:30:07Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if she's like, fuck, I shouldn't have sucked that guy's dick.

• 1:30:12Speaker 03

  Man, I feel bad now. I shouldn't have fucked that guy. I, I used to have to do that, cause for years, you know, years of my life, I didn't tell anybody, couldn't tell anybody who I worked for, what I did, and. I didn't have a wife, so I didn't have a wife or kids. I just not really say anything and I just dip out. I kind of dipped out from my family. My dad was like very concerned because he's like, I never hear from that kid. I don't know what he's doing. I'm like, eh, just working, just busy man. But it weighs on you after a while. You're like, this kind of sucks.

• 1:30:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, not being able to tell people about something you're doing is, that's hard. Like you can never show someone part of who you are. There's always going to be a door that's closed. It's kind of nuts.

• 1:30:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's difficult. It was like my wife, when we first got together, she's the first girl that, or first woman. I shouldn't say girl. She's the first woman I told because I was like, fuck this place. I'm out of it anyway. So if I get rolled up, I get rolled up. Who cares? I'm out anyway.

• 1:31:14Joe Rogan?

  Did she, was she initially like, whoa? Like, how did she handle it?

• 1:31:18Speaker 03

  Well, so we were.

• 1:31:20Joe Rogan?

  Did you give her like details?

• 1:31:22Speaker 03

  No, no, no. I, because she had met some of my friends, right? And, you know, the guys from the community are fairly obvious because they look like you. And they're jacked, tattooed, you know, a lot of them are, you know, big beards. It looks like, um, looks like the Hells Angels.

• 1:31:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:31:41Speaker 03

  So like, I don't work for the State Department. That's fairly obvious. Like State Department, they're going to wear suits and, you know, they're come out of Harvard and they use really long words all the time. They're not, they're not like, they don't look like they're getting ready to commit a felony. Like, and, and so she would be around, you know, at our kitchen table or whatever. And you'd have all these guys that look like, you know, they're NFL Hells Angels. And I look like this, which, you know, is intimidating nonetheless, but I could get away with it. I could sell that, but they couldn't. She's like, well. So you work for the State Department, but what is it that you actually do? Right? I'm like, you're not a janitor, obviously. I'm like, ah, you know, we, we, we train assistant advisor

• 1:32:25Speaker 03

  or something. And then after a while, um, you know, getting to know her, you know, six months or however long we'd known each other, we were driving down the road and I was like, I actually work for the CIA. And she's like, I know. What are you, a fucking idiot? I'm like, yeah, that's fair. Yeah.

• 1:32:45Speaker 03

  And I, and it's, and it's funny because even now today, right? It's like a lot of my friends will come by that I haven't seen for years. And, uh, and she always has the same kind of like eye roll. It's like, okay, you guys can be up to like two in the morning, like drinking at the kitchen table, talking shit about everybody that used to work.

• 1:33:05Speaker 03

  That's right. It's like, and it's so dramatic, right? It's like, it's such a sewing circle at times with people. And it's all the same people are the same regardless of your profession. It's like, they're always talking shit and that guy's a good dude, that guy's not.

• 1:33:22Joe Rogan?

  It's so fascinating to me, like, uh, James O'Keefe stuff.

• 1:33:26Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:33:26Joe Rogan?

  Like how much they bust people that talk about things they should never talk about with people that are just on a date with.

• 1:33:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:34Joe Rogan?

  Like not even like your wife of 10 years, not, no, no, no, no. Some lady or some guy, it's a lot of it, it's chatty gay guys.

• 1:33:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:43Joe Rogan?

  A lot of it is gay guys, like, I'll tell you how we do it. And they're on a date with some guy and they're trying to impress him and they start telling about what secret covert things they're doing that's totally illegal and they do it all the time.

• 1:33:56Speaker 03

  Oh, it's got, it happens all the time in DC. And it doesn't really matter what, what party or wherever you go. You always have the guy and it's so funny because I would go to, you know, whatever party X. And depending on the venue, it might be like State Department and FBI or whomever. And you can always tell who works for whom. And it's always like you're, they're always trying to out jockey each other for who works for the better government service. And I used to always tell people I was a, I was a janitor, so they would leave me alone. And, uh, I'm a janitor at Northrop Grumman. And like, why are you here? Like kind of a thing. I'm like, ah, that's what I do. It's, you know, it's my passion. Love them shit, shit stripes and toilets, man. I gotta wipe them out.

• 1:34:40Speaker 03

  And, but then the, all the other guys were like jockeying for like FBI or State Department or wherever they're going. And then it's always the guys like, "I can't tell you who I work for." And you're like, "Oh." Then you just sit back and listen. You're like, "Let me hear where this guy's going." This is gonna be a fun one, you know?

• 1:34:57Joe Rogan?

  Get a couple of drinks at him.

• 1:34:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:00Speaker 03

  And it's just full of shit. You're just like, "Oh, it's so full of shit."

• 1:35:04Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:49Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:31Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:15Joe Rogan?

  Everybody wants to pretend they're that. Yeah. There's a lot of people that want to pretend they're that person because it's so hard to become that person, but it's, you can convince a lot of people that don't know any better that you are. That was a big thing with martial arts. Big thing with martial arts. It was especially in the 80s. Also, in the 80s, when I first started, no one knew anything. It wasn't like today. Today, if you get in a street fight, if you're a high school kid and you get in a street fight with another high school kid, there's a high likelihood that that kid knows how to leg kick. He might know a blast double. He might know an arm triangle. You might get fucked up. Like, they might know how to fight. Back then, no one knew how to fight. It was very rare.

• 1:37:59Joe Rogan?

  There was like one kid who knew how to box. It was always the wrestling team, which were the most dangerous people. Those guys were the worst. Those guys, they're the hardest motherfuckers in the school, always. And I didn't even realize that until I started wrestling. I was like, I'm amongst these fucking elite killers, and they're just walking around with everybody like they're normal. And you realize the level of commitment and dedication involved in being an elite high school wrestler, just a high school wrestler. It's fucking off the charts. These kids were going to camps all through the summer. They would get sent off to wrestling camp. They were training year-round. And I just hopped in on my sophomore year. I did one season of wrestling. And I was like, this is crazy. Like, the level, I had no idea. I was hanging around with these people. I thought they were normal people.

• 1:38:44Joe Rogan?

  They were like kids that were like little soldiers. Like, all of them, thick-necked little fucking soldiers. And you realize, like, wow. It like opened my eyes, like, Jesus, there's these people around. And they were- Never even considered martial artists until the UFC. No one really understood unless they actually did wrestling. How helpless the average person is with an elite wrestler. You have no chance. Like, it's not like, maybe you'll be able to hit him before he takes you down. Eh eh, no, no chance. He's gonna shoot on you, he's gonna fucking, you have no chance. You have zero chance. But there was always a bunch of guys who were pretending they were martial arts experts. It was, oh, it was a really common thing. And then you would talk to him, like, where do you train? What do you, what do you do?

• 1:39:28Joe Rogan?

  And it was always some guy who like learned some mystic. There was one guy. This guy actually wound up getting arrested for murder. And he's in jail right now. Yeah, he had lied to everybody and told them that he was a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt. And he was even teaching people and he knew almost nothing. And it, this is like in the early, early 2000s, I guess. Like late 90s, early 2000s. And it was just starting to catch on. Like, people were just starting to understand the depth of martial arts because of the UFC. But it hadn't really gone mainstream until about 2005. And this guy was telling everybody he was a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt. And then Eddie Bravo trained with him.

• 1:40:11Joe Rogan?

  And Eddie came back to me, he's like, man, something's wrong. He goes like, this guy is terrible. He didn't know shit. And, and he's like, and I was like, really? He goes, yeah, I think he's a fake. I think he's a fraud. And he wound up confronting this guy. And then the guy wound up, he was banging some guy's wife and wound up luring the guy back to his karate school and killing him.

• 1:40:33Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:40:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. And he went to jail and he's in jail right now. But he had a fake name. His name was Rafael Torre, that was his fake name. But his real name was like Ralph something or other. And he's in jail right now for murder.

• 1:40:47Speaker 03

  That's a, but that's a super funny character, right? Not that guy.

• 1:40:50Joe Rogan?

  But a fake black belt.

• 1:40:51Speaker 03

  But a fake martial artist. What was that? There was a, there was a movie years ago, uh, where it's like one foot way, the way of one foot or something. Have you ever watched that?

• 1:41:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, with Danny McFry.

• 1:41:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's awesome.

• 1:41:03Speaker 03

  And it was fucking hilarious, man. And it's like, that guy, that, that like character, that strip mall, you know, martial artist is just a piece of shit.

• 1:41:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. There's a guy on Instagram that documents all these guys. It's McDojo Life on Instagram. It's a fucking great page because it's all people doing bullshit fake martial arts, like death touch. Like people that can like touch your forehead and you like go limp and fall to the ground. And you get all their, their students become like brainwashed and they go along with this whole facade. It's really weird. They, they're in on the charade. It's very strange.

• 1:41:39Speaker 03

  Super weird. It's, it's very cultish.

• 1:41:41Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Like. Martial arts are very cultish, especially traditional martial arts. Like your instructor is always sir. You're always bowing to them. There's always a lot of weirdness inside. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and like traditional taekwondo, you always would refer to your instructors as mister. It was mister. I hated it. I was like, just you don't.

• 1:41:59Speaker 03

  How many years did you do that?

• 1:42:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, like hardcore for seven years. Yeah. Hardcore.

• 1:42:07Speaker 03

  And then you switched over to jujitsu?

• 1:42:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I switched over to jujitsu a few years later. I stopped fighting when I was 22 and then I was a real, it was like doing comedy. I started doing comedy at 21 and I kind of half-assed, still trained and fought a few times while I was also doing comedy. But I didn't have the commitment that I had before. I'd, I'd had a series of events that led me out of like wanting to compete. And, uh, one of them was recognizing brain damage, recognizing it in other people, recognizing it in friends. And then laying in bed with headaches after sparring sessions going, okay, where does this lead? And I don't, I'm not even making any money off of this. And then there was a guy that I hurt really bad in a tournament.

• 1:42:52Joe Rogan?

  I knocked this one guy out when I was 19 in California. I was competing in the nationals and I KO'd this guy and he never got up. They, they had to take him on a stretcher and he was on a stretcher for half an hour. And then they took him to the hospital and it freaked me out because I was like, that could have easily been me. It easily could have been me. And, um, that one bothered me because I was like, what am I doing? Like, why am I doing this? Like I'm. I'm trying to win, you know, the national championships. I'm trying to be in the Olympics. I'm trying to do these things, but I'm like, okay, well, where does that lead me to teaching? Do I really want to? I was already teaching at the time. Would I really want to teach for a living forever? Like, I don't think I do. There's not, you know, and then recognizing that the martial art that I had picked,

• 1:43:35Joe Rogan?

  Taekwondo had a lot of flaws in it. It was really good for kicking, but it wasn't the best overall martial art. And when I started kickboxing, I really realized that. And then I started getting into Muay Thai, and I realized the power of leg kicks, with the devastating impact it has on your mobility. And like, one or two leg kicks and you're so compromised. I was like, oh, this is, there's so many levels to this. So I was like, kind of half-assing martial arts, like, the last year. Not, not nearly as committed. Like, I was all in, all throughout my high school years, all in, until I was 21. And then from 21 to 22, kind of half-assed it. And then I didn't start doing jiu-jitsu until years later.

• 1:44:16Speaker 03

  So what's going on at, like, 21, 22, and you're like, what are you thinking? Do you remember what you're thinking? Like, I'm gonna be an actor? I'm gonna be a comic?

• 1:44:24Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:44:25Speaker 03

  What are you thinking?

• 1:44:26Joe Rogan?

  I didn't think I was gonna be a comic until I did an open mic night when I was 21. And then even then, I was like, this is just something that I, I think I can do. But when I'd bomb, I'd be like, fuck, I should go back to fighting. I just gotta get a few. And then, you know what happened? I tore my ACL. And when I tore my ACL, I had to have surgery, and I couldn't do anything for like, six months. And then I realized, like, my body's vulnerable. Like, you're counting on your tissue staying intact in order to, like, live this life that you want to live. So I had to get my knee reconstructed, and I was like, alright.

• 1:45:04Speaker 03

  So that was the first knee reconstruction?

• 1:45:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:07Speaker 03

  Back then?

• 1:45:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I was 22, I think, when I blew it out. Twenty one, somewhere around then. It was like right around the time when I was like thinking about stopping competing. It's like my, you know, like the universe was like, let me help you.

• 1:45:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:45:21Joe Rogan?

  Let me fuck your knee up real quick. So I had to get that fixed and that takes a little while before it gets back to normal again. But the comedy became a thing where I was like, this is very exciting and really difficult to do. And so different than anything else I was doing. Where you have to get the people to like you. Like it's dependent upon like personality and whereas with martial arts, I wanted them to not like me. I loved it. I didn't have any problem like no one's gonna save you. Doesn't matter if these people hate me and if you're looking at me and there's just you and me and a referee. I liked it. I liked that this person had like a bunch of, at least one of my favorite things was like hearing cheers stop. Like when people were cheering like, get on, fuck you, kick his ass, kick his ass, then whoomp.

• 1:46:04Joe Rogan?

  And then the guy would collapse and then you hear silence. You just hear silence, especially if you go to where they live.

• 1:46:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:46:13Joe Rogan?

  Like if you had to go to Ohio and fight in Ohio, I just loved that silence. It was this final moment. And my thing was I would always walk away like it was normal. I would never celebrate. I would just walk away like that was, I do this every day. I'm gonna do this to the next guy too. This is what I'm gonna do to you. And I would, I would always take naps too. That was the other thing I did when everybody was freaking out before fighting, before sparring. I would go to sleep in front of everybody. I'd just put a hoodie on and just lie down on the ground and go to sleep.

• 1:46:43Speaker 03

  Is that like where you try to fuck with them a little bit?

• 1:46:46Joe Rogan?

  There was a little bit of fucking with them. There was a little bit of, I'm, I'm so relaxed that I'm gonna take a nap here while you're freaking out. But it was also, I wanted to do it from my own mind. I wanted to just like be, I want, I was so in my own head. I was just, it was, I was so in my own, like what I'm going to do. I wasn't thinking about all these other external things until that one knockout. That's when I really started thinking about what could happen to me. Because I had gotten really lucky where I never really got hurt in a tournament. Never, never got dropped, never got knocked out, never got, never got really rocked. But I did it to a lot of people. And then I was like, this is coming around. Like, it's only a matter of time before I get womped.

• 1:47:29Joe Rogan?

  It's just, it happens. It's just going to happen. I'm gonna fight some national champion guy.

• 1:47:34Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:47:34Joe Rogan?

  And I'm gonna zig when I should have zagged, and I'm gonna catch a heel to my fucking jaw. And that's gonna be a wrap. I'm gonna be waking up in the hospital.

• 1:47:43Speaker 03

  That's interesting that you had that thought early on to where you're like, ah.

• 1:47:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, I started seeing brain damage in, in other people. Specifically when I started kickboxing, because I was training at boxing gyms. And I started seeing guys who were saying, fucking, there's like a slurry aspect to the way they talked. There was a labored thing to their speech. There was something about them. And then I would see it degrade over time. You know, like, I really started getting involved in sparring and, and boxing when I was about nineteen. And that was also around the time where I started losing my enthusiasm for Taekwondo. Because I just realized the no punching to the face thing in tournaments was so limited. It really, it, it fucked you up because it gave you this illusion that you could pull things off.

• 1:48:30Joe Rogan?

  Where all the guy would have to do is jab you in the face. You're like, oh, okay. Like, at this distance, you can't do the thing that you normally do in a Taekwondo tournament. You have to be much more aware defensively. So I had to recalibrate my offense and my tactics. And so then I just, I started doing a lot of boxing and a lot of kickboxing. And I saw so much brain damage. I saw so much, like, unreported brain damage. Just weird stuff. Guys would tell you the same story. They just told you like five minutes ago. They tell it to you again. Because, and I was realizing, oh, these guys can't remember. They just said this thing five minutes ago. It was like they were stoned. You know, and they weren't, you know? They, they were just starting to exhibit, beginning signs of brain damage.

• 1:49:17Speaker 03

  So when you're making those decisions early on, like you're controlling, like being able to control your emotions, so your anxiety and being able to like put yourself into the right mental framework to go out and perform, regardless. So you're competing in Taekwondo, you're going out, you're actually performing like open mics, is that what you were doing at the time? Or you just like?

• 1:49:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, when I was 21, once I was 21, I started doing open mics.

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so being able to control your emotions, because you gotta be freaking out a little bit.

• 1:49:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, the first time, the first time I went on stage, I was more scared than I had ever been fighting, which I thought was crazy. So I started fighting before I could really be scared. I started fighting when I was 15. It was like the first fights that I had. You were scared, but you didn't, you were so stupid. You didn't know what could happen to you. And I was really lucky that I had a really good school. The school that I trained at was super technical. That was the guy who I trained under, this guy, Jay Hun Kim, he trained with General Che Young-yeet, who was like the founder of Taekwondo. And so it was like, the technique was perfect. Like you had to have perfect technique.

• 1:50:31Joe Rogan?

  Like if you did anything sloppy or anything like kinda, they would correct you. Like you had to have it down. And they emphasized a lot of heavy bag training, which a lot of schools didn't even have a heavy bag, which I thought was crazy. Like we would go and do these, these things where we'd have, our team would go and train with another team. Like we would travel to New York and there was like another, an instructor that was friends with our instructor and they would bring the competition teams to compete against each other. And we'd fight in a gym. So it was like these unsanctioned fights that you would have. And you know, you'd find people that were roughly your weight, and these guys didn't have heavy bags. And you'd go to their gym, they have like a, you know, strip mall type gym, and there was, in their dojang, they didn't have a heavy bag.

• 1:51:16Joe Rogan?

  I was like, this is crazy. You guys don't train with heavy bags? And it didn't make any sense to me. They had kicking paddles and a bunch of different things, but they didn't have anything that would improve thrusting techniques and stabbing techniques, which is like you need resistance, you need a heavy bag. And so our instructor was adamant about, like if you can't hurt somebody.

• 1:51:37Joe Rogan?

  Badly with one kick, you're you're doing the wrong thing. You these techniques were originally designed for war. Right. And you're you're supposed to be able to have devastating power in everything you throw. That got lost a little when taekwondo got into the Olympics or when it was on the path to getting into the Olympics. And it became more of like point scoring. They would try to hit you and run away, hit you and run away. And it was a lot of like fast moving techniques that didn't have the same sort of devastating impact. So I got real lucky in where I trained is that they really emphasized power. And so the school that I was at was very feared because a lot of the other black belts were like, the guys that I trained with were fucking really dangerous.

• 1:52:21Joe Rogan?

  Like they were they were known for when they would go to a tournament, people would get scared. Because if these guys hit you, you're in trouble. Like these were dangerous cats, you know, that were like just wheel kicking people into another dimension, turning side, kicking people and crushing rib cages. It was a lot of that. And so I got real lucky that that's the gym that I started in, that I started with like, you know, you imitate your atmosphere. Right, right. I was the first guy that I ever saw hit a bag was this guy John Lee. And when I saw him, he was the national taekwondo light heavyweight champion. And he was competing, he was training to compete in the world games. So he was about to go to, I guess it was the World Cup. And he was in full training mode, like the moment I walked into the gym.

• 1:53:06Joe Rogan?

  And I watched him hold this heavy bag. And as I was going up the stairs, I could hear the sound of it. This is I was just visiting this gym. I was leaving a baseball game at Fenway Park. And me and my friend just walked up the stairs just because we didn't want to wait for the tea. It took so long for so many people leaving the baseball game. There's going to be big lines, it was going to be packed. So let's just walk up here and see what's going on. And as we were walking up the stairs, I heard this sound that I'll never forget. It was like

• 1:53:34Joe Rogan?

  And the ka-ching was the chains of the heavy bag. Cause this 120 pound bag was flying through the air when this guy would hit it. And the chains are going and rattling, then it would come down, he would set it up again. And he was seven, 10 feet from me. Like there was this like little ledge where you could sit and watch people. And they had set it up like that, so the heavy bag was set up. Right where people would walk in, cause it was a great recruitment tool. Cause you would really get to see what people are capable of. And the moment I saw that, I was like, I wanna know how to do that. Like, how do you do that? Like, he was doing spinning back kicks over and over again, turning side kicks.

• 1:54:16Joe Rogan?

  And just folding this fucking bag in half, like, that's crazy. That a person could gen- I didn't think a person could generate that kind of force. And I trained with him a lot, and I learned from him a lot, he taught me a lot. And he was an interesting guy too, cause he was like a real street guy. Like, he'd been in and out of jail, wound up having a substance problem, but. He was this funny dude from Chelsea, which was like a real hard, dangerous neighborhood in Boston. And just a fucking killer, man, a killer. Just a killer. And when he would, when he would compete, people would get so nervous. It was crazy to watch, cause I started to see, I started training with him. And going to tournaments with him when I was a white belt.

• 1:55:00Joe Rogan?

  So I was a white belt, and he was a black belt national champion. And when John Lee would show up, you'd see people whispering, like, fuck, John Lee's here. You would see guys take these deep breaths, cause they knew he was in their weight class. Fuck, fuck, cause they knew this guy wasn't trying to win on points. He was trying to break your body. He was trying to just crush your organs. He was trying to separate your fucking brain from the inside of its skull. He was trying to hurt you, and he did it to a lot of people. I watched him knock out a lot of people, a lot of people. It was wild to see. So like, you know, but it was, to me, it was just like this new thing that was going to change who I am.

• 1:55:44Joe Rogan?

  You know, I, I went for the first time in my life, I felt like I wasn't a loser. Cause I was like really good at this thing that was scary. You know, and I just threw myself into it. It was my whole life. I didn't do anything. I didn't party. I didn't go to, didn't, I had very few friends outside of high school. You know, I was, it was, my whole thing was just training. I'd get home from school, get something to eat, immediately leave, hop on the train, head into town every day.

• 1:56:10Speaker 03

  That was like fifteen?

• 1:56:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, from like the summer of my freshman year of high school. And that's when I first started, right? Right, like when I graduated from high school and my freshman year, I started training. And it was nuts. It was just like this complete new life. It was so weird. And then competing, like traveling around competing. First it's like a white belt, then a blue belt. Then wicker my way up, purple belt. And then all of a sudden, in Tuck window, red belt is brown belt.

• 1:56:41Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:56:42Joe Rogan?

  And then black belt. And then my instructor was crazy. He would let me compete as a black belt before I was a black belt. He let me compete in the men's division when I was sixteen. Yeah, it was nuts.

• 1:56:53Speaker 03

  Holy shit.

• 1:56:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was just, they, if they thought you had potential, they'd just throw you right into the flames. Like, let's see, see what you could do.

• 1:57:03Speaker 03

  So the confidence it gives you, it's like finding something that you're good at.

• 1:57:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was like all of a sudden, I realized, well, all of a sudden I got obsessed with something. Where I'd never really worked hard at anything in my life. And then I had abs. I was like, this is crazy. Like I look at myself in the mirror, I had abs. All of a sudden I had muscles everywhere. I was like, this is nuts. Cause you're going through puberty.

• 1:57:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:57:25Joe Rogan?

  At the, so you're this doughy little fucking kid, this scrawny, doughy little kid that never did any sports other than baseball. And then all of a sudden I'm shredded and I, I know how to fuck people up. And then I was doing it to like live humans all over the country, like traveling everywhere. We traveled, that's all we did. We just traveled.

• 1:57:42Speaker 03

  So how does that go from, how do you go from there though? Like, like. Why or how did you go, "I'm gonna go do stand-up"? Like, what was the... what was that?

• 1:57:53Joe Rogan?

  It was really my friends.

• 1:57:54Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:57:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my friend Steve Graham, who I'm still friends with to this day. He was a real maniac. He was on the US Ski Team. He was a flight pilot with the Navy. Or, not a flight pilot, a flight surgeon with the Navy. He was an ophthalmologist. Like, insanely hard-working guy. Like, unbelievably disciplined. And he got into Taekwondo while he was a doctor. You know, while he was an ophthalmologist. He's a maniac, to this day. This dude's had like, he's still a good friend. He's had like 70 fucking surgeries. He's had his knees replaced, still trains, still spars. Yeah, yeah. He's like, in his 60s now. He's a fucking nut.

• 1:58:32Speaker 03

  And so he's like, "Hey, you're funny? You should go do this."

• 1:58:35Joe Rogan?

  We would go to tournaments. And when we would go to tournaments, or when we have sparring days in particular, everybody was super nervous. It was very dangerous. And so I would be the one who would break the ice. I would be the one who would make fun of everybody and do impressions of everybody. And I always was cracking everybody up. And it was a captive audience.

• 1:58:56Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 1:58:57Joe Rogan?

  And everyone was looking for like, relief from the fact that there was this ten... Like, we would be on a bus, headed to like, Poughkeepsie, New York, to go compete in a tournament. And I would be the one on the bus, like, making fun of everything. Just cracking everybody up. And my friend Steve said, "You should be a stand-up. You should try it. You should just try it." And I'm like, "Look, you think I'm funny because you like me." I go, "Other people are gonna think I'm an asshole." Like, my sense of humor was very dark. It was like, it was very crazy back then, because I was living a crazy life. And then, did an open-mic night, and then I said, "I think I might be able to do this."

• 1:59:32Speaker 03

  Did you bomb, like, straight away?

• 1:59:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:59:34Speaker 03

  Was it just like, augur in?

• 1:59:35Joe Rogan?

  I got a couple of laughs, like, "Ha, ha, ha." It wasn't good.

• 1:59:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:59:39Joe Rogan?

  But everybody sucked.

• 1:59:39Speaker 03

  Do you remember any, any of the jokes?

• 1:59:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Here's my impression of a good-looking girl getting pulled over by the cops. Do you realize how fast you were going? "No, do you like my tits?" Yes, I do. Here's a warning. It was terrible. It was so bad. It was so bad. I had so many bad jokes. But I also realized, like, everybody sucks in the beginning. And then I thought back to martial arts, I'd go, oh, this is like everything.

• 2:00:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:00:04Joe Rogan?

  Like, if you start off, you suck. Like, everything in the whole thing is, like, getting better at this thing you suck at. Which is like, I had this guy, Tommy Woods, Dr. Tommy Woods. We were talking about new things, about the value in terms of, like, people that acquired dementia. And one of the best ways to, like, to keep your brain fresh is do new things. Do things that you're not good at and learn how to do them and get better at. And I think I had sort of just applied what I had learned from martial arts, because obviously I wasn't good at martial arts when I started. I was terrible. Everybody's terrible. You don't know what you're doing.

• 2:00:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:00:38Joe Rogan?

  And then you realize, like, oh, through repetitive effort, concentration, focus, discipline, you're gonna get better. It's a path. And so I was like, oh, this is a new thing. But it's also a new thing filled with other misfits. Because I was a misfit, right?

• 2:00:53Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 2:00:54Joe Rogan?

  And it's like, oh, well, these comedians are misfits too. They didn't have regular rules. They always wanted to smoke pot and drink beer and, you know, they stayed up late and they slept late. And they were just maniacs. I was like, okay, I could hang out with these people. Like, regular people that wanted a regular job scare the shit out of me. Because I don't want to get sucked into your drone-like frequency. I can't li- I tried regular jobs. Like, this is not gonna work for me. I'm too ADD, HD, whatever the fuck it is. Whatever it is, I got it. I'm like, I can't do this. But those people were misfits. There were these weird reni- and occasionally, professionals would go up.

• 2:01:31Joe Rogan?

  And you'd realize, like, wow, this guy's a master. Like, the mastery he has of, like, concepts and jokes and tricking you into thinking one thing and then he hits you with another thing. And like, god, and the smoothness of it all. It just became an obsession.

• 2:01:45Speaker 03

  Do you remember the guy? The, like, you looked at?

• 2:01:48Joe Rogan?

  Teddy Bergeron. There's this guy who had been on The Tonight Show. And he unfortunately developed a substance problem, which a lot of people do. And I think some of it is just the pressure of stand-up and the pressure of fame and the pressure of- Constantly performing and and then it's just also like just living that dirtbag life where you're just like you could do whatever you want. It doesn't matter. Do coke, you know, and they're just doing coke and like there was clubs that would pay you in coke.

• 2:02:15Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:02:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they would. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nick's Comedy Stop would offer you cocaine or cash in the 1980s. Yeah.

• 2:02:24Speaker 03

  I I can see that. I can see how I could see how this this thing becomes super addicting. And this is like your dirtbag life. It's the it's that same parallel we're talking about. Where it's like this becomes the rock that you're climbing every day because this is the audience that you have to entertain. It becomes about getting better, honing a craft, like and ultimately succeeding with the crowd right in front of you. And they're giving you the feedback. Like, that's very similar. Like, you're either getting higher on the rock or you're falling off.

• 2:02:53Joe Rogan?

  And the falling off was important because the bombings would really teach you you didn't want that. So what was it about the bomb? Like, what did you? How did you bomb? What did you do wrong? What went wrong? What's wrong with your material? What's wrong? Like, are you being lazy in the way you're setting things up? Like, what are you doing wrong? And then figuring it out because that pain of bombing was so like, sometimes it's bad to do well a bunch of times because you need to get relaxed. Like, you can't be relaxed. Like, you have to, like, constantly grinding at it. You have to constantly be taking that fucking thing apart and trying to figure out what how to make it better.

• 2:03:29Speaker 03

  The guys like, um, like Andy Kaufman, right? They would go out and they had a whole shtick and nobody understood what the fuck they were doing.

• 2:03:35Joe Rogan?

  That's a different thing.

• 2:03:37Speaker 03

  But it's wild.

• 2:03:39Joe Rogan?

  It is wild.

• 2:03:40Speaker 03

  Because it's almost an intentional.

• 2:03:43Speaker 03

  You're bombing intentionally, but it's funny. You're you got to like stretch it out a little bit to understand what what's going on. And it's a different individual psychology.

• 2:03:53Joe Rogan?

  It's a different thing. He's doing a different thing. My criticism of that, and I don't really have a criticism, maybe that's the wrong word because I think Kaufman was brilliant. He was brilliant on Taxi. He was an interesting character. The shit he did with pro wrestling was just bananas.

• 2:04:07Speaker 03

  Bananas.

• 2:04:08Joe Rogan?

  It was wrestling women.

• 2:04:09Speaker 03

  It's wild.

• 2:04:09Joe Rogan?

  Fucking mania.

• 2:04:10Speaker 03

  It was so wild.

• 2:04:11Joe Rogan?

  It was great. It was so great.

• 2:04:14Joe Rogan?

  But he never was a great comic, right? Like, see, if Shane Gillis decided to go that path and just bomb on purpose, that would be almost more interesting.

• 2:04:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:04:25Joe Rogan?

  Like, here's a guy who knows how to kill. He's a real comic, one of the funniest guys ever.

• 2:04:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:33Joe Rogan?

  And then he starts saying, playing the theme to Mighty Mouse and just repeating, "Here I come to save the day." Like, this is what Andy Kaufman did. He would play, have a record player and just play the Mighty Mouse theme song and just repeat, "Here I come to save the day." And everyone was like, "What the fuck is going on?" Like, it was like this weird mindfuck that he was doing with everybody. But he never did the other thing.

• 2:04:55Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 2:04:55Joe Rogan?

  He never, like, really entertained and killed. Like, all the evidence of Andy Kaufman is of him doing this weird stuff, which, again, it's not really a criticism.

• 2:05:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:05:05Joe Rogan?

  But he was doing a different thing. He was an odd guy who saw this thing and he was like, "I think I can get in there and do something completely disruptive."

• 2:05:14Speaker 03

  Right. I can see that. Like, it's very distinctly different.

• 2:05:19Joe Rogan?

  Nothing wrong with it. I loved it. I loved especially the wrestling stuff, but it's not my favorite. Like, if I had to, if someone told me Andy Kaufman's performing in this room over here, but Dave Attell is in that room over there, I'm going to see Dave Attell. I want to go see the master. Yeah, I'm gonna laugh and I'm gonna see a guy at the top of his craft that's doing this hypnosis on everybody and you're just leave there. Your eyes hurt and you're dying. You don't leave there going, "What the fuck was that?" Like, but he wanted people to leave there and go, "What the fuck was that?" Like, that was the magic of Andy Kaufman. But it's just not my, you know, like, I don't like jazz. You know, I don't want to go see jazz.

• 2:05:57Speaker 03

  It's hard to like.

• 2:05:58Joe Rogan?

  I think it's kind of cool background music, but I'm not leaving the house to go see jazz. But I know people who fucking love it.

• 2:06:05Speaker 03

  Like, so if you think back to Taxi, like, I was thinking about this the other day with Danny DeVito in Taxi. Like, that guy's still going.

• 2:06:14Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:06:14Speaker 03

  Like, it's incredible, man.

• 2:06:15Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:06:16Speaker 03

  Like, I was, and it just like a snippet of Taxi came up and I was like, "Holy shit. How old is Danny DeVito?"

• 2:06:22Joe Rogan?

  He's 150,000 years old. Tony Danz is long since retired.

• 2:06:25Speaker 03

  Holy shit. Like, that guy just keeps going and he looked old in Taxi.

• 2:06:29Joe Rogan?

  Is Judd Hurst still alive?

• 2:06:32Speaker 03

  I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know.

• 2:06:35Joe Rogan?

  That was a great show.

• 2:06:37Speaker 03

  It was a great show.

• 2:06:38Joe Rogan?

  That was a great show.

• 2:06:40Speaker 03

  He's ninety?

• 2:06:41Joe Rogan?

  Is Mary Lou Henner was Taxi too, right? Wasn't she on Taxi? Mary Lou Henner, you know, she has that crazy mind thing where she remembers everything.

• 2:06:51Speaker 03

  Seriously?

• 2:06:52Joe Rogan?

  Everything. You can give her a date and she could tell you like nineteen seventy-three, you know, February second, she'll tell you what day it was. She can tell you what happened on that day. She can tell you news things. She can tell you what she was doing that day. She has like, not just a photographic member, memory, but a complete recall of all events and dates. I forget what the term is.

• 2:07:16Speaker 04

  Superior autobiographical memory ability.

• 2:07:19Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh.

• 2:07:20Speaker 04

  Can remember almost every day of her life since she was eleven.

• 2:07:23Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that nuts?

• 2:07:24Speaker 03

  That's amazing.

• 2:07:25Joe Rogan?

  And she's gotta be seventy years old, right? Seventy-three? She remembers everything.

• 2:07:31Speaker 03

  The funny thing is, is DeVito's still funny.

• 2:07:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:34Speaker 03

  Like, he's still funny. Like, I mean, like, the way that he lands jokes. I mean, Always Sunny. How many seasons is that? Like, twenty now? I don't know.

• 2:07:44Joe Rogan?

  Think about it. How many fucking things has he done?

• 2:07:48Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:07:49Joe Rogan?

  Taxi to, Taxi was when I was a boy.

• 2:07:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:52Joe Rogan?

  To Always Sunny.

• 2:07:53Speaker 03

  That was the thing my dad used to watch.

• 2:07:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:56Speaker 03

  Like, my dad seems old. My dad's eighty years old, right? My dad used to watch that.

• 2:08:00Joe Rogan?

  How old's Danny DeVito? Eighty-one. Still banging it out.

• 2:08:05Speaker 03

  Still fucking killing it, man.

• 2:08:06Joe Rogan?

  Still funny.

• 2:08:07Speaker 03

  I mean, how old's, I'm not trying to equate Ron White to Danny, but I'm saying like, how old's Ron? Because he's still killing it.

• 2:08:13Joe Rogan?

  Seventy? Yeah, Ron's seventy. Yeah.

• 2:08:16Speaker 03

  Like, I was watching him the other night and, you know, he flew back from wherever he was and he just like, came in and stood up there and did a set. Like, he just kind of like, walked in, almost. It felt like he was just like, I'm here, I'm just gonna stop in and do this. And then he fucking killed, seamlessly, just, it was perfect.

• 2:08:35Joe Rogan?

  He's as good as, he's better, I think, than he's ever been right now.

• 2:08:38Speaker 03

  I've never, like, watching somebody that's great and then watching somebody that's in another dimension, like, him specifically, because he's perfect. Like, he's just, it's absolutely perfect. Because it comes off, it's unforced, it's a conversation. Like, he's just having a conversation with the crowd.

• 2:08:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:58Speaker 03

  It's so incredible to watch somebody that can be perfect in their delivery, but then be completely unassuming in the way that they're delivering it.

• 2:09:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:09Speaker 03

  Like, it's just a natural conversation, like a habit.

• 2:09:12Joe Rogan?

  Casual.

• 2:09:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's completely casual.

• 2:09:14Joe Rogan?

  Casual killing.

• 2:09:15Speaker 03

  You don't even feel like you're in, like you're, you're watching a stand-up comedian. You feel like you're watching somebody talk and you know that it's coming. You think that it's coming and you, he still fucking delivers it with just a level of exceptionalism. You're like, fuck, man, like, the guy's incredible.

• 2:09:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think it's one of those things where you keep working at it, you just keep getting better. And also, he stopped drinking. So he stopped drinking a couple of years ago and that changed everything. He got, lost a ton of weight, got way more focused. But, you know, he had been going hard for decades. And his doctor had to pull him aside and go, hey, man, you're gonna die.

• 2:09:53Speaker 03

  Are all those guys still, still, like, all the blue collar comedy tour guys, are they still, are they still all doing it?

• 2:10:00Joe Rogan?

  Foxworthy still does stand-up. I think he did stand-up recently with Ron. He'll, but I don't think he tours a lot. I don't know about Larry the Cable guy. I don't hear about him anymore.

• 2:10:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:10:11Joe Rogan?

  I don't hear about the other guy, Bill Engvall. You don't hear much about him anymore. I think out of all them, Ron is the guy who's still, but out of all them, it was like Jeff Foxer was a great comic and then, you know, I think, in my opinion, Ron was the best. Ron's just a master. But also, Ron is, he loves it, man. Like, he was there last night. He's, he performs all the time. He's always down. He's, he always, like, I always get text messages from him when I have shows. He wants to come and do a set. It's like, he, he lives for it, man. He's constantly writing. He's constantly working on it. Like, that's his thing, man. He, he enjoys the shit out of it. Still tours, still does the road, does better than ever, sells out everywhere. And you're getting the best show out of Ron that you've ever gotten out of him. He's just-

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  He's better now, I think, than he's ever been. Yeah, I really believe that. And it's crazy that at seventy, he's still getting better. His material just keeps getting better. And it's always working at it. He's always working at it, you know?

• 2:11:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, that, that, that whole thing about LA or whatever he did. He just, it, it, it sounded like he pulled that out of his ass.

• 2:11:15Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:11:16Speaker 03

  On stage. He was just telling a story about being on a flight and you're like, holy shit. He's just telling me a story.

• 2:11:22Joe Rogan?

  He was in the back room of the Comedy Store one night. There's a back bar. And we were hanging out and, uh, we were drinking. This is back in Ron's drinking days. And we're having a couple of glasses of whiskey. And then, uh, Ron starts telling the story about how when he was, uh, stationed in Hawaii. He goes, there's this place you can go and, you know, it's a bunch of hookers. You get your dick sucked for like twenty bucks, man. I was there every fucking day. And he goes, then all these years later. I was watching the news story. And all these transvestite hookers were getting rounded up in the very area where I used to go every day. And I realized, oh my God, I got my dick sucked about a hundred times by men.

• 2:12:06Joe Rogan?

  And he was telling this, this fucking hilarious bit. He, it wasn't a bit. He was just telling us this story. We were dying. I go, do you, have you ever said this on stage? He goes, no. Fuck no. I go, you should tell that on stage. I go, Ron, that's hilarious. I goes, we were dying laughing. I mean, it was like it was a bit, but it was just him telling a story. Just, and, and no intention.

• 2:12:27Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:12:27Joe Rogan?

  Of ever saying.

• 2:12:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:12:28Joe Rogan?

  We're in the back room. He goes from the back room onto the stage in the OR, the original room. He walks down the hallway. I go with him. He goes on stage, he goes. Let me tell you a story about how I got my dick sucked about a hundred times by men.

• 2:12:45Joe Rogan?

  And he just, he just goes into this story. It fucking murders. Murders. Like, like it had been a polished bit that he had been working on for years. It was just a story. But Ron is a, a great storyteller, like a natural storyteller. Like if he's not trying to be funny, he's funny.

• 2:13:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:05Joe Rogan?

  He's, he doesn't have to like, think about it. It's like, it's a, he's just got this personality, man. He just. He's just cool.

• 2:13:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's like that, that, um, iconic western, almost a western storyteller. Like the guy that you would expect sitting at the campfire at hunting camp. It's the old, you know, guide that's been around the 100 years. Like he's killed thousands of animals, he's packed shit out, and then he's got these stories that you can't help but listen to.

• 2:13:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:37Speaker 03

  And that's what he reminds me of. I'm like, man, this guy is so fucking perfect. And every time I see him, I'm like, holy shit. That's, that's the guy. That's the guy.

• 2:13:46Joe Rogan?

  He's an old master.

• 2:13:48Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:13:48Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's, uh, there's not a lot of humans like that guy. He's the main reason why I was interested in moving to Austin. He was the first reason, because I knew Ron had already lived here. Ron was already moved here. Ron moved here in 2018.

• 2:14:04Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:14:04Joe Rogan?

  And so, uh, he just got tired of it. He kept a place in Beverly Hills and would come visit us at the Comedy Store sometimes. But I was talking to him on the phone. He's like, man, I fucking love it here. He goes, there's no Hollywood bullshit. He goes, if I want to fly somewhere to work, I'm in the center of the country. It's easy to get anywhere. People are nice. Food's great. And he goes, he's just not around Hollywood. And I kept thinking, man, can I live in Austin? Like, I always liked Austin and Onnit was out here. So when I would come out here for work every now and then. And I'd always come out here and love doing stand-up here. I was like, that planted the first seed. And then when the pandemic hit, Ron was already here. And when I came out here to look at houses and, and stuff, and this is in May of 2020.

• 2:14:47Joe Rogan?

  So this is only a couple of months into the lockdown, but I had already had enough. I was like, I'm getting the fuck out of here. Like, I knew these cocksuckers in LA were never going to give up the kind of control and power that they had over people's lives. They get off on it, those fucking weirdos. And so I was like, well, at least Ron will be there. Like, I'll hang out with Ron. Like, even if I never do stand-up again, at least Ron will be here. And then, you know, Ron was also the guy who convinced me that I have to open up a club. I had had the thought in my head and I was thinking about doing it. We talked about doing it and then Ron went on stage for the first time in like six months. It was in November of 2020 and then he grabs me by my shoulders when he got offstage because he fucking murdered. First of all, when he went on stage, they went crazy and there's a giant standing ovation.

• 2:15:33Joe Rogan?

  Because there was no indoor shows anywhere else, uh, near there. It was like we were doing it at the Vulcan. They had some shows they were doing at Cap City before Cap City went under, but they were like separating everybody by like 20 feet or some stupid shit. Like as if the virus can't go through the, it was dumb, right? Everything was dumb. But the Vulcan was just like unhinged. It was packed. I was like, this is so crazy. This is such a super spreader party. And Ron went on stage and he had gone over his notes and material and wasn't even sure, he was thinking he was retired. He was talking about retiring. I think I'm retired. Did his one set and then he grabs me by the shoulders. He goes, whatever the fuck we have to do, we're gonna keep doing this. Just, he goes, you gotta open up that club. I'm like, okay, we're gonna open up the club.

• 2:16:17Joe Rogan?

  And then we started looking for locations like right afterwards. So like Ron was a, a key force. He's the godfather of the Austin comedy movement. Like where this became like this big hub. It started with Ron, 100%. Because I knew if he was here, if he was here, at least I'd have my friend. I could go hang out. Right, right. Because like even if I couldn't do standup again, just, I need someone who's just a renegade. I need a dude I can hang out with. That's just, that's a real comic that we're gonna have fun. We could just talk shit and laugh and. Well, who would you hang out with when you were in LA? Him. Him? Him when he was there until 2018, always. But of course Joey Diaz. Yeah.

• 2:16:57Joe Rogan?

  And you know, when the pandemic hit, Joey moved to New Jersey. He's like, fuck this place and, you know, he, he was on the same things as me. Fuck these people. This is, and he always wanted to go back home to New Jersey, which was, you know, where he's from. And then Duncan moved to North Carolina. Like, everybody moved out. But it was like Duncan, I hung out with Duncan, Segura, Ari. Bert, all those people that were, you know, the mainstays at The Comedy Store. It was just, there was an amazing crew. Tony Inchcliffe, of course.

• 2:17:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:27Joe Rogan?

  And Tony was one of the first guys to move out here, too, with me. And then Segura moved out here, and then everybody moved out here. Just like this wave started.

• 2:17:34Speaker 03

  Is there anybody that you're, like, you started with, like, back in the day? Like, because you were, what, Boston?

• 2:17:40Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:17:40Speaker 03

  Like, was there anybody you started with that you're still, like?

• 2:17:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Fitzsimmons, Greg Fitzsimmons. We're real tight. Greg Fitzsimmons started one week, uh, I think I started a week after him or before him, something like that. But we're separated by one week.

• 2:17:54Speaker 03

  Oh, seriously?

• 2:17:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. We did open mics together. We traveled around together. We did road, we would drive 90 minutes to do five minutes for free. Yeah, we would drive to Rhode Island to stand up for free. We traveled all over the, the, all over New England. We did road gigs together. Yeah, we came up together. We had so much fun. We just, we had no money, no career, no even thought of one day having a career. The, the goal was, I want to be able to make a living doing comedy. Because we knew that there was guys in town that were headliners that could, you know, grind out 100 grand, 50 grand, whatever it is a year, only doing comedy. They didn't have to do anything else. I was like, that's the dream. Imagine if you could pay your bills with comedy.

• 2:18:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:18:37Joe Rogan?

  The idea of a career was like, no, we never even talked about it. Because everybody in Boston stayed in Boston. Nobody left. And other than like Steven Wright and Jay Leno, there was like a few people that had kind of, air quotes, "made it", you know, during that time period and left Boston.

• 2:18:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:18:54Joe Rogan?

  The goal in Boston was just to be a good comic. It was a real interesting thing because it was a real artist colony. In, in, uh, in the most unpretentious of ways, because these guys were all coke-snorting, whiskey-drinking psychopaths. And a lot of them were big guys, like these big fucking football player-looking dudes. They were just animals. And they were just wild men, you know? And they, they had this life that was so envious to me. I was like, God, to be so free. All you have to do is just tell jokes. You don't have to ever show up at the fucking, the newspaper depot to deliver newspapers or drive, I was driving limos and doing construction gigs. I didn't have to do any of that. You could just do comedy.

• 2:19:39Joe Rogan?

  And that was me and Greg. We would just drive around just thinking like, one day, imagine being able to make a living doing this? That was the, the only goal.

• 2:19:49Joe Rogan?

  And then we both wind up event. He moved to New York for a bit and I lived in New York for a while. And then I moved to LA and then he eventually moved to LA as well. And now he's still there. He's still back in LA.

• 2:20:01Speaker 03

  Gosh, I can't imagine, man. Like, living there and staying there even professionally.

• 2:20:08Joe Rogan?

  Did you see what they just did to the guys that won the Super Bowl? Did you see the jock tax?

• 2:20:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:20:14Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, you see the jock tax?

• 2:20:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's not a new thing, though.

• 2:20:17Joe Rogan?

  I understand. I understand, but it is, it's specific to California. And this jock tax in California, there were, some of the players lost money playing in the Super Bowl.

• 2:20:31Speaker 04

  Nah, that's not true.

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, no, it is true.

• 2:20:33Speaker 04

  I don't think so.

• 2:20:34Joe Rogan?

  No, no, it is true. I went it through AI last night.

• 2:20:37Speaker 04

  Ah, I don't.

• 2:20:38Joe Rogan?

  No, it was in, they pulled it up on Grok and people analyzed it. And it's based, no, no, Jamie, it's, Jamie, it's based on the seven days that they had to be there. So you have to pay a fee based on the seven days dependent upon what your salary is.

• 2:20:54Speaker 04

  They played a game there in January, though, too.

• 2:20:58Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:20:59Speaker 04

  This year.

• 2:21:00Joe Rogan?

  Okay, with whatever. Well, the Super Bowl, specifically, these guys, Jamie's so funny.

• 2:21:06Speaker 04

  I know, but this is one of those things that's not real.

• 2:21:08Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean it's not real? I told you, it was run through AI last night. He made $178,000 for the Super Bowl. He had to pay $249,000 in tax. I'm pretty sure those are the numbers. And it's based on the fact that he was there for seven days. So it's a percentage of your income over the course of a year. So if he makes $2 million a year and he's there for seven days, this is how much money you have to pay.

• 2:21:34Speaker 03

  Gotcha.

• 2:21:35Joe Rogan?

  And so the Super Bowl pay is not, it's like on top of your normal salary.

• 2:21:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:21:40Joe Rogan?

  Right? So it actually cost him money to play in the Super Bowl. So he made $178,000, but because he's there for seven days, he had to pay 200 and something thousand dollars. Did you watch it? No. No. I was gonna watch it just for Bad Bunny, just because everybody was so pissed off. I thought it was hilarious. That this guy's like, like, what do you fucking care? It's like this weird culture war that this guy is singing. Objectively, people that saw it said it was a great show. I don't know. I'll take their word for it. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay

• 2:22:22Joe Rogan?

  for eligible members of just $23 per session. And with World Mental Health Day on the 10th, now's the perfect time to give it a try. In fact, don't even wait until the 10th because all that stress you feel, it's not waiting around. So instead of letting it build up, sign up for a therapy session and unload at any time, not just on World Mental Health Day. If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month.

• 2:23:02Joe Rogan?

  Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com. This episode is brought to you by Quince. Putting together a good wardrobe isn't actually that hard. You just need the right pieces and that's where Quince comes in. Quince is all about creating quality, versatile clothing with premium materials, like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters from just $60 and organic cotton tees that are soft and breathable. Personally, I got a bunch of their stuff and I love it. I really love the fleece pullover hoodie and the flowknit Breeze Performance Tees. They're, they have really simple, smooth designs, perfect for recording sessions or my workouts.

• 2:23:46Joe Rogan?

  I, I like wearing them on stage. It's just great quality clothing and it's cool how Quince still gives you luxury quality, but without the insane markup. Find your new fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com/rogan. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q U I N C E dot com slash rogan.

• 2:24:19Speaker 03

  Like, uh, somebody was telling me the other day, they're like, oh, you gonna watch the Super Bowl? I'm like, what? Super Bowl? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's, uh, sports. Gotcha. Yeah. Nah. I was halfway through it or whatever. I'm like, I have no idea what's going on, man.

• 2:24:33Joe Rogan?

  If it's your team, if it's your team, I get it. It was the Patriots. I could, I could root for the Patriots. But it's like, uh, I'm busy.

• 2:24:43Speaker 03

  It's, if it's on, like at the airport or something, like, I'll watch it. But like, I'm not going out of my way. I'm not gonna be like, hey.

• 2:24:49Joe Rogan?

  If Aaron Rodgers was playing, I'd, I'd watch it. Maybe I'd even go if Aaron was playing. But it's like, there's, uh, it's so hard to go from combat sports to regular sports for me.

• 2:25:00Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 2:25:01Joe Rogan?

  It's so hard. It's so hard. The UFC last Saturday was fucking spectacular. And it was a small one in the Apex Center. And it was, there were some incredible fights. It was so good. It's like, that to me is like, um, I don't have a lot of time for entertainment. That fills it all up.

• 2:25:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, that fight, like, and, I mean, Saturday was like, incredible.

• 2:25:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:24Speaker 03

  It was, that was incredible.

• 2:25:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The, uh, Mario Batista performance is fucking insane. He's so good. That guy just keeps getting better. He looks like a world champion. And it's like, you watch combat sports and the, the consequences are so grave. What they're doing, the, the dedication, this moment, you train for months and months for this one moment when this referee is like, fighter one, you ready? Fighter two, you ready? Let's go. And it's, woo, here we go. That to me is the most exciting thing in all of sports. It'll never stop being that to me. I love it. Football's fun. I like it. I've been to some UT games. UT games are fucking great. They're fun.

• 2:26:03Speaker 03

  Well, this is like the state, right? This is like, this is not only like the, the state pastime, but people are like grown up. They're completely modeled to go play Texas football.

• 2:26:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:15Speaker 03

  I mean, this is like the, the icon of Texas sports. Yeah.

• 2:26:18Joe Rogan?

  And it's just the enthusiasm for the crowd is nuts. I got to shoot the cannon once. They let me shoot the cannon off. Yeah.

• 2:26:25Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:26:27Joe Rogan?

  That's pretty cool. It's fun being on the, on the field and seeing these guys warm up and get ready and then watching the game. Nighttime games are the best. They're nuts, man. And then, of course, they do the jet fly over. Which is like, America! You're flying over fighter jets over a football game. That doesn't happen anywhere else. They don't do that anywhere else. They never do that for a fight. Fly fighter jets over. That'd be cool, though. They should start. Like, maybe, maybe Daniel will get it. Yeah. Maybe they could do it at the Sphere and have like the roof of the Sphere, like, show the jets as they pass over. Maybe they'll do it at the White House, UFC, right? They probably will. I would imagine. Well, they're probably gonna have air presence. I mean, how dangerous is that card gonna be? Oh, my gosh.

• 2:27:09Joe Rogan?

  In terms of like, if you wanted to have some sort of a disruptive event, that's the spot. At the White House and you're having cage fights? And I'm not even convinced that it's gonna happen, because with all the crazy shit going on in the world, who knows what happens between now and June? Right. When this is supposed to pop off. Like, who knows? Who knows what goes down? Between now, who knows what fucking happens with all this Epstein file shit? It just keeps getting crazier and crazier and crazier and deeper and deeper. And so, uh, Ro Khanna and Massey just released the names of these guys that had been redacted from the list, and one of them is Lex Weck- what is his last name?

• 2:27:50Speaker 04

  Les.

• 2:27:51Joe Rogan?

  Les Wecksnar, right? Who's the CEO of, uh, Victoria's Secrets. Is he the CEO or the owner?

• 2:27:59Speaker 04

  Former CEO.

• 2:28:00Joe Rogan?

  Former? Both. Former owner, CEO of Victoria's Secrets. He's being named as a co-conspirator now. Yes. Yeah, so he's being named along with Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. He, because, you know, he runs this modeling, Victoria's Secrets, hot girls, the whole deal. Somehow or another, he's involved in this. And they had redacted his name up until now, right?

• 2:28:24Speaker 04

  I'm pretty sure, yeah. Uh, that I'd, well, two things. I don't think anybody... His existence as a co-conspirator isn't new information?

• 2:28:34Joe Rogan?

  But it's confirmed now, right?

• 2:28:36Speaker 04

  It was, people I think are up in arms is that it wasn't supposed to be blocked out from the file.

• 2:28:40Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:28:40Speaker 04

  He's not a victim.

• 2:28:42Joe Rogan?

  Right, he's not a victim, so why was his name redacted? And so they got it unredacted, and now he's being named.

• 2:28:48Speaker 04

  I think he is the funder of most of it, is what it's.

• 2:28:51Joe Rogan?

  What? Right, so people knew that there was something going on, but he had gifted Jeffrey Epstein this insane house in Manhattan. So, this is like a sixty million dollar house in Manhattan. You know the house where you go into it and you see Bill Clinton in a dress? You know that picture that we have out in the lobby? That's from the foyer of his house.

• 2:29:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:29:13Joe Rogan?

  That Jeffrey Epstein was gifted by Les Wexner. By the way, Whitney Webb posted on her Twitter about Les Wexner being a sex trafficker, a child sex trafficker, in 2020. See if you can find that.

• 2:29:35Joe Rogan?

  Like, that crazy chick is right about everything.

• 2:29:39Speaker 04

  The one, the lady was kidnapped, or she was claimed she was kidnapped, it was in his house, in New Albany, or Columbus. She was, she claimed she was being held there for, I don't know, two weeks or something, like, doing art? She called her dad to try to get out of there, or something like that.

• 2:29:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 2:29:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, and that's like, his involvement isn't like, brand new information.

• 2:29:59Joe Rogan?

  This was in Columbus, Ohio?

• 2:30:00Speaker 04

  Well, New Albany is where all the, like, that's where his house is, the giant, biggest house in Ohio, I think. It's a suburb of Columbus, it'd be like, Westlake to.

• 2:30:08Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:30:13Speaker 04

  People think he's still there, that's where Epstein's living, but that's not accurate.

• 2:30:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, the people that think he's alive, I think they think he's in Israel, don't they?

• 2:30:21Speaker 04

  Definitely, I think, I think they're AI photos, they might not be.

• 2:30:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I saw that, yeah.

• 2:30:25Speaker 04

  People think he's been seen or spotted around town.

• 2:30:28Joe Rogan?

  Wouldn't you think he'd get some surgery?

• 2:30:31Speaker 03

  You would think that he would have to.

• 2:30:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:33Speaker 03

  Like, he's probably one of the most recognizable faces in the world at this point.

• 2:30:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:37Speaker 03

  After so much airtime.

• 2:30:39Joe Rogan?

  You'd have to get some surgery, if you wanted to still, I mean, how would, how would you keep that? This is the tweet.

• 2:30:46Joe Rogan?

  Your reminder that Leslie Wexner financed the mass rape and trafficking of thousands of American children for over a decade and right now he is sitting in a 26K square foot mansion in New Albany, Ohio, thinking that he is above the law. She tweeted this in April 28th of 2020. How crazy is that?

• 2:31:08Speaker 03

  Holy shit.

• 2:31:10Joe Rogan?

  She's like the, the most prolific of all the conspiracy theories, the most well-read, the one with the most recall, the one that's the most quoted. I don't know how she's so good at it. We're trying to get her on. I don't know how she's so good and what her background is, how she finds all this information and but she's always way ahead of all this stuff.

• 2:31:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean 2020.

• 2:31:35Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:31:37Speaker 03

  Fucking way ahead of everybody.

• 2:31:38Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:31:41Joe Rogan?

  Bro, but, but these files, just what's come out so far and the fact that they redacted men, these like powerful billionaire guys, their names were redacted. Like there's one of them where there's where he's talking about pandemic planning.

• 2:32:00Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:32:01Joe Rogan?

  Where Jeffrey Epstein is talking about pandemic planning to someone named Bill, whose name is redacted. It's like, why are you redacting the guy's name that you're talking about planning for a pandemic, like what to do in response to a pandemic? Why is his name retracted?

• 2:32:21Speaker 03

  So.

• 2:32:21Joe Rogan?

  Or redacted, rather.

• 2:32:22Speaker 03

  When are, when are, when are they supposed to testify? When are the Clintons supposed to testify? Would you say they're gonna, two weeks? Yeah, I think it's the last two days. Do you say the aliens are coming in the next two weeks?

• 2:32:32Joe Rogan?

  I think.

• 2:32:32Speaker 03

  They're gonna land?

• 2:32:35Speaker 04

  I think that's gonna ramp up.

• 2:32:36Speaker 03

  Something's gonna happen?

• 2:32:37Speaker 04

  Just before that testifying.

• 2:32:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it'll be, we bomb Iran, aliens show up, maybe at the same time.

• 2:32:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Fuck, man.

• 2:32:46Speaker 03

  Outside of this, because this, I mean, obviously, this conspiracy, it's not a theory anymore, right? Because they're connecting the networks, they're like

• 2:32:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:55Speaker 03

  Exposing a lot of this. Like, when you look at your, your total conspiracy catalog of things that you like to dive into, outside of aliens, because everybody knows that, what are your other ones that you like?

• 2:33:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, aliens is the most fun one.

• 2:33:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:07Joe Rogan?

  This is the one that I hate the most.

• 2:33:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:10Joe Rogan?

  Because this one scares the shit out of me. Because the fear of, you know, we talked about this yesterday with Roger Avery, the fear of these like literally demonic human beings that are running the world and don't give a fuck about human lives and enjoy watching people being tortured, enjoy watching people killed, participating in ritual sacrifice of people, and they do it in order to show that you're a part of a team and you're... We, we know that that has always historically been a real thing, and it's been something that you look at in history, you go, "God, it's so sick, it's so twisted, it's so disgusting." And everybody wants to think, "Thank God, that's not happening now." But then, when you realize, like, that might have been happening now. Here's one of the craziest ones.

• 2:33:56Joe Rogan?

  The day he was indicted, in 2018, the very next day, they ordered, he ordered 330 gallons of sulfuric acid.

• 2:34:10Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:34:11Joe Rogan?

  Yes. He ordered 655 gallon drums of sulfuric acid to be delivered to the island. And so, there's a lot of people online saying, "Oh, that was probably for his desalination plant, it's probably a regular thing they need to order." So then, someone else did a deep dive and said, "No, this is the first time this was ever ordered."

• 2:34:30Speaker 04

  I checked that again, I saw there was two other ones.

• 2:34:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there was two other orders?

• 2:34:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, 2017 and 2015.

• 2:34:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so that guy was wrong.

• 2:34:36Speaker 04

  It could have been the first one from that company, potentially.

• 2:34:38Joe Rogan?

  Ah, that makes sense. So, maybe it was for this desalination, uh, equipment. But also, that's a lot of sulfuric acid. You know, if I needed five gallons for my desalination equipment, but

• 2:34:54Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 2:34:55Joe Rogan?

  239 gallons, or whatever it is, to burn kids.

• 2:35:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. To fucking get rid of bodies.

• 2:35:05Speaker 03

  Well, it's kind of hard to think of any other use for acid, just in general.

• 2:35:09Joe Rogan?

  Right, immediately, you think.

• 2:35:10Speaker 03

  Immediately.

• 2:35:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The other orders, were they that large?

• 2:35:14Speaker 04

  Uh, let me check.

• 2:35:16Joe Rogan?

  Because here's the other thing, I mean, how long has it been killing people? How long have they been boiling bodies to get rid of them? I mean, if you do have, for lack of better words, let's call it a service, where you allow rich people from foreign governments, or whatever, you set it up, I can give you whatever you want.

• 2:35:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:35:37Joe Rogan?

  Like, what I want to do is I want to kill a hooker. Like, I want to kill her, I want to torture her, and I want to, you know, get rid of the body. I want to do that. Like, can you do that? There was one where this one guy is saying to him, "Thank you for the torture video."

• 2:35:54Joe Rogan?

  It's literally a part of an email. The actual quote, "Thank you for the torture video," like, "Enjoyed the torture video."

• 2:36:02Speaker 03

  It's so gross.

• 2:36:03Joe Rogan?

  And they think they've identified that guy. And what do they think? He's a Sultan?

• 2:36:10Speaker 04

  Uh, I'm just trying to find that right now, I think, because Massey said he got the, uh, he looked that one up, I believe. Because it's weird, they're letting them into the files, one by one, for like, an hour at a time.

• 2:36:20Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:36:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, bro.

• 2:36:22Speaker 04

  Like, the congresspeople can go look at specific, there's millions of files, you got to tell how much file you want specifically to look at.

• 2:36:28Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy. The whole thing is crazy, because like, why, why have you protected people? So we know Sultan Ahmed bin Suliman, Suliam, sent the torture video to Epstein. This is in 2009.

• 2:36:47Joe Rogan?

  So Epstein was saying that, "Where are you? Are you okay? I love the torture video."

• 2:36:53Speaker 03

  Jeez.

• 2:36:55Joe Rogan?

  I am in China, I'll be in the US, second week of May. What the fuck, man? And why is his name redacted? Why would your name be redacted if you're not a victim? Like, this is what's crazy about all this. Like, how come you redact some people and you don't redact other people? Like, what is this? This is not good. None of this is good for this administration. It looks fucking terrible. It looks terrible. It looks terrible for Trump when he was saying that none of this was real, this is all a hoax. This is not a hoax. Like, did you not know? Maybe he didn't know, if you want to be charitable. But this is definitely not a hoax. And if you got redacted people's names and these people aren't victims, you're not protecting the victims. So what are you doing? Right.

• 2:37:39Joe Rogan?

  And how come all this shit is not released? You would think that all of it would just... Yeah. Like, get rid of all of it. Just expel it all. It's crazy. So this, this is the conspiracy that drives me the more, the, the most crazy. Cause I don't like it.

• 2:37:53Speaker 04

  Julian Dorie talked about this yesterday on his podcast. I just saw a clip going around.

• 2:37:58Speaker 04

  American billionaire Tom Pritzker had an email to him that says...

• 2:38:03Joe Rogan?

  You mean Julian Dorsey?

• 2:38:04Speaker 04

  Dorsey, yeah, sorry, sorry.

• 2:38:05Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:38:07Joe Rogan?

  "I'm in a remote valley of Afghanistan, it's my birthday wish, with boys with toys. Spent time with Petraeus yesterday, and he loaned me a chopper, actually two, with one as a backup. Can't call till tomorrow." Yeah, but boys with toys could mean, like, military guys with weapons.

• 2:38:27Speaker 04

  That's what I assumed, but that's not what the video, they thought they were talking about little boys, because they were in Afghanistan. But the part of the birthday wish is an interesting part.

• 2:38:36Joe Rogan?

  It's my birthday wish to...

• 2:38:38Speaker 04

  In a remote valley.

• 2:38:39Joe Rogan?

  In a remote valley in Afghanistan. But it also, "loaned me a chopper."

• 2:38:44Speaker 04

  Well, actually, this is... Yeah, it's just too Epstein.

• 2:38:47Joe Rogan?

  Right. But the thing is, like, the loan me a chopper, my birthday wish, his birthday wish might have been to, like, gun down villagers.

• 2:38:55Speaker 04

  I know, that's what, that's what I thought they were talking about, not go play with little kids.

• 2:38:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:59Speaker 04

  I thought you just wanna go kill people and they wouldn't do it.

• 2:39:00Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I bet that, look, he loaned me a chopper, doesn't sound like I came there to fuck kids. It's like, my birthday wish sounds like I'm here to fuck people up.

• 2:39:09Speaker 03

  Right. Or I'm just out here to, to tour Afghanistan, which, I mean, I don't know why anybody would wanna tour Afghanistan, but it seems like...

• 2:39:18Joe Rogan?

  The only reason why I would be interested in going to Afghanistan is the stuff that Jason Everman told me about. Like, when he showed me all those ancient Greek ruins, which is nuts, where archaeologists have no access to them.

• 2:39:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:39:30Joe Rogan?

  That stuff's crazy.

• 2:39:32Speaker 03

  No, it's incredible.

• 2:39:33Joe Rogan?

  Great, all from Alexander the Great. Like, there's immense ruins in Afghanistan of cities. They had Greek cities, like, beautiful columns and incredible construction in Afghanistan. That are like, who, how old, when was Alexander the Great? When was that? The fourteen hundreds? What was that?

• 2:39:54Speaker 03

  Thousand plus, right? So, like, I mean...

• 2:39:58Joe Rogan?

  What year was it? What year was Alexander the Great?

• 2:40:00Speaker 03

  Uh, I, I believe it was actually, what, three hundred? I don't know, Jamie?

• 2:40:06Joe Rogan?

  Three hundred A.D.?

• 2:40:07Speaker 04

  Three hundred B.C.

• 2:40:08Joe Rogan?

  Three hundred B.C. Wow!

• 2:40:10Speaker 04

  He's only six hundred years off.

• 2:40:11Joe Rogan?

  Wow, I was way off. Three hundred B.C. and they're building these immense, beautiful, Roman cities.

• 2:40:20Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:40:21Joe Rogan?

  Greek, Roman cities. Like, it looks like, like, it looks like you're, you're either in Rome or you're in ancient Greece, like, incredible architecture.

• 2:40:29Speaker 03

  Well, I think up until the Soviets invaded, I mean, Afghanistan was, was kind of like the crown jewel, right? They referred to it as the Beirut of Central Asia, because it was, you had a very eclectic group of people. And Kabul was known as, like, this beautiful city. And obviously, post-occupation, the Soviets had killed, you know, hundreds of thousands of people. And then with the buildup and the devastation of not only military occupation of the Soviets, and then us coming in, you know, soon after, obviously, with, um, when the mullahs took charge, it basically went completely to the other side, or the extreme of the Taliban, and then us coming in. They've had nothing but decades of war. It's completely

• 2:41:13Speaker 03

  eviscerated any semblance of intellectualism. There's no, like, infrastructure of technology or advancement. Like, the universities were essentially demolished. So, everything was ruined. So, you're talking about, uh, I mean, at least several hundreds, hundreds of years of advancement that just were eliminated in three decades.

• 2:41:39Joe Rogan?

  And just a complete collapse of society.

• 2:41:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you, you would, I would spend a lot of time just trying to understand the, the place, right? And you would have, you leave an airfield where we have the most advanced technology in the world, right? Like, we're, you know, launching helicopters and jets and any and all pieces of technology you could imagine. And you would drive, you know, into these valleys or, or, you know, from one place to another, and you would have horse-drawn carriages of, you know, two mules and they're carrying something in the background. And it's like you have the same cars around the road with a Toyota Corolla,

• 2:42:24Speaker 03

  and you have a mule pulling an old Toyota Corolla or something, right? So, you'd have an entire society of, like, basically Amish, Amish-level people, and then, you know, Americans right next door in an airbase are launching the most advanced technology and warfighting capability in the world. And so, you'd see everything from point A to point B. You would encounter huge percentage of the people are illiterate.

• 2:42:54Speaker 03

  Like, no schooling, no advancement for girls. You know, the children were seen more as like a beast of burden. In a lot of places, they would, they would actually value their sheep more than they would value their children. So they would be looking for reparations or, or, you know, to get paid for quite possibly the sheep that you destroyed on target. But their kids, not, not really. So you had a really clear picture to what civilization was like 500 years before that, or 1,000 years at some, at certain times. And you'd see it too, right?

• 2:43:36Speaker 03

  Because you'd have Buddhist architecture, Greek architecture, and then you'd have the, the standard kind of Taliban infrastructure. You'd have the Soviet architecture from their invasion. You'd have all these different layers of military occupation. You could see them all within two weeks.

• 2:43:54Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:43:56Speaker 03

  You, I was up in this place called the Pangir, and the lion of the Pangir was, was this general Masood. And he was killed actually on September 10th, before September 11th. So he's part of the actual September 11th plot. He was killed by a suicide bomber as they were trying to do a documentary. And they brought in a camera pack full of explosives and killed him the day before, which ultimately was part of the September 11th attacks. Because they knew that Masood was the connection to the US invasion, or the US invasion would be involving Masood.

• 2:44:37Speaker 03

  And the Pangir is this beautiful, like, it's incredible river valley. And it's also part of where the Soviets would just get their asses handed to them, because we had, the Majadine was being funded by the CIA at the time, obviously, back during the Soviet invasion. And they would ambush the Soviets on these windy mountain roads next to this river, and they would cut them off, basically, on the front and the back of the convoy, and then destroy the entire convoy in between. And then they'd just shove all the shit that was destroyed in the river. So the river would have rapids and not all the rapids were made from like rocks and

• 2:45:17Speaker 03

  natural, you know, natural occurring rapids. They were made by like T-52s and Russian tanks and all this like this war material that was pushed into the river by the Pangeris.

• 2:45:30Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:45:30Speaker 03

  And I went up to his grave and he's a really incredible guy when you like read about him and like all of his like combat accomplishments against the Soviets. But the Panger Valley is like such a beautiful place. And we used to joke around about how, gosh, we'd love to come back here and like go skiing or like recreate in Panger Valley because it looks like Colorado or someplace incredible and beautiful. And at the same time, you're in Afghanistan, so you're surrounded by just the chaos and the devastation of war with this one tiny little piece, this like little sliver in the middle of nowhere. It's absolutely beautiful. And some of the rapids are made by T-52s.

• 2:46:13Joe Rogan?

  And as a whitewater guy, I was like, man, I'd like to kayak this. That'd be cool. If you were a person who's a wealthy person, that your desire was to go gun people down, like there are people that will provide you with that service. Like there was a thing with the Soviets, or not the Soviets, with Russians, where they're allowing people to kill pirates.

• 2:46:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:37Joe Rogan?

  Like you would pay a bunch of money and they'd take you to where the pirates are and you'd go on a ship and with a 50 cal, just fucking blow up pirate boats.

• 2:46:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'd heard about that. I'd heard about there were places that you could go as, you know, a combat tourist, basically.

• 2:46:53Joe Rogan?

  Has to be.

• 2:46:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:54Joe Rogan?

  There has to be places.

• 2:46:55Speaker 03

  It's all gonna be like Russian or Somali or a connection between the two, right? So you'd have these like rogue elements and places where there isn't organized government. There's essentially just chaos and anarchy.

• 2:47:07Joe Rogan?

  Which is Afghanistan.

• 2:47:08Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 2:47:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:10Joe Rogan?

  So someone from the western side was providing that service to someone and letting them borrow a chopper?

• 2:47:17Speaker 03

  Well, that was Petraeus. So they were saying like Petraeus was the commanding general at the time, which I would find it. It's it's it's kinda hard to believe.

• 2:47:26Joe Rogan?

  Hard to believe.

• 2:47:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, that it that a general that's in charge of combat operations in Afghanistan wouldn't loan just a rich guy a helicopter. And it it sounds correct in the context of we oh, plus another one, because they could never fly anywhere alone. They always had to fly in twos because they had to have a support.

• 2:47:43Joe Rogan?

  But just loan me a chopper.

• 2:47:44Speaker 03

  Loan me a chopper.

• 2:47:45Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:47:47Speaker 03

  It's a stretch, you know, as as much as I disagree with the way that they were running the war, it'd be hard for me to believe that a general would just loan some rich guy a couple helicopters to fly around Afghanistan.

• 2:48:01Joe Rogan?

  You think he's lying?

• 2:48:02Speaker 03

  Eh, I don't know. Like, you'd have to, like, dive into it and figure it out.

• 2:48:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But either way, there's nothing normal about these emails.

• 2:48:10Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:48:11Joe Rogan?

  There's nothing normal.

• 2:48:12Speaker 03

  Nothing normal.

• 2:48:12Joe Rogan?

  One thing to take into consideration is how much of these emails are actually factual.

• 2:48:16Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:48:17Joe Rogan?

  Like accusations that they're putting on other people, you gotta take that with a grain of salt. This guy wasn't, he was all about, like, influence peddling. Like, and probably he had enemies, and he probably would probably destroy his enemies with rumors and and making up false stories. Like, the Bill Gates one with asking me for antibiotics to slip into his wife because he got STD from a Russian hooker. I'm like, that seems too, too on the head. You know what I mean? Like, why wouldn't he go to his fucking personal doctor? Why is he going to Jeffrey Epstein for antibiotics in New York when he lives in Seattle? Do you don't you think he has, like, a concierge medicine setup up there?

• 2:48:58Speaker 03

  You would think.

• 2:48:59Joe Rogan?

  With a guy in it? And why would he say, hey, Melinda, I gave her STDs? You wouldn't. You'd say, hey, get me some stuff. Oh, I lost my prescription. Can you give me another one?

• 2:49:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:49:10Joe Rogan?

  It fell out of my car. Give me another one?

• 2:49:12Speaker 03

  Can I get another one?

• 2:49:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then fucking crush it up in a smoothie. Like, if you're gonna do that, you would do it. He's not a dummy. He's Bill Gates, right? You would do it in a more discreet way than contact a international sex trafficker who's a part of like some intelligence operation.

• 2:49:27Speaker 03

  You would think.

• 2:49:28Joe Rogan?

  You would think.

• 2:49:29Speaker 03

  Right. But the skeptic in me tends to kind of like look at it under a magnifying glass a little bit.

• 2:49:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't want to take everything at face value, but also at the accumulation of all of these different things, you just go, what the fuck was going on? Did you find out how many other, the sulfuric acid orders, if the other ones were just as large?

• 2:49:52Speaker 04

  I was trying, I struggled even to find that. I was like, maybe I made this up. But I did find one. There was different, so they were talking about, there's emails back to 2012 or 14 about, uh, I don't have the thing up. This is the thing saying that there's nothing there.

• 2:50:08Joe Rogan?

  The sulfuric acid?

• 2:50:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:50:10Joe Rogan?

  Emails, recent documents, how do they know there's nothing there?

• 2:50:13Speaker 04

  No, this is, I asked, yeah.

• 2:50:14Joe Rogan?

  Water maintenance systems dating back to 2013 implying possible routine use of sulfur, possible is a weird word, use of sulfuric acid for pH adjustment and filtration, but no specific prior invoices or shipments are detailed.

• 2:50:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's exactly, it wasn't an invoice. There was one, they were talking about getting one drum of sulfuric acid with 40 bags of like carbonate salt or something.

• 2:50:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, see, that makes more sense than six fucking giant 55 gallon drums of sulfuric acid the day after you get indicted.

• 2:50:50Speaker 04

  When you dig into the actual files website, I started looking up the ARO plant, which is the reverse osmosis system they had there. There's a ton of discussions about it, going all the way back to 2012, when I think is when he bought it, so.

• 2:51:00Joe Rogan?

  Of using sulfuric acid?

• 2:51:02Speaker 04

  No, just having a reverse osmosis, just having water, there must have been a problem, is what it sort of sounded like.

• 2:51:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, it makes, it makes sense, because they were using desalination technology. But it's just the volume. Is suspicious.

• 2:51:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, they were buying it from Florida for a while.

• 2:51:16Joe Rogan?

  Also, dude had to know he was going down. Like, when he gets arrested in 2019, when he, in 18, rather, when he gets indicted, he had to know he was going down. And if you know you're going down and you're trying to mount some sort of a defense, one of the first things you would have to do is get rid of bodies.

• 2:51:32Speaker 03

  You have to get rid of everything.

• 2:51:33Joe Rogan?

  Right? If you've got a bunch of people on the island.

• 2:51:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:51:36Joe Rogan?

  That they could swoop in at any point in time and, and pull out of there, and then you're fucked. Like, if he had underage kids on the island, whatever he had on the island.

• 2:51:47Speaker 04

  On that note, I would say.

• 2:51:47Joe Rogan?

  It's so dark.

• 2:51:48Speaker 04

  This picture I know came from, there was rumors of him getting concrete machines shipped there, but that was from the first time he got arrested. So I think in 2008, the first time he got arrested, they had a bunch of machines shipped. Oh, this is showing up.

• 2:52:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, bro.

• 2:52:03Speaker 04

  And, but, but, construct, I don't know how you do construction on the island without getting concrete machines shipped.

• 2:52:07Joe Rogan?

  I don't know how you get rid of bodies or put them inside of concrete, yeah.

• 2:52:10Speaker 04

  I'm trying to find this tweet.

• 2:52:11Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem.

• 2:52:13Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, maybe it's, maybe it's two in the same. It's like, hey, I go, I go to an island and I've got to make, you know, I've got to make all the infrastructure, so I need a bunch of concrete. I need RO, so I've got to have sulfuric acid. What's, what's better for a cover up?

• 2:52:26Speaker 04

  There's the picture of the machines on the island.

• 2:52:28Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:52:29Speaker 04

  And here's the description of it.

• 2:52:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, right before his 2019 arrest, industrial car mix 5.5 XL self-loading concrete mixer. So he got a concrete mixer and he got the fucking sulfuric acid right after his arrest?

• 2:52:43Speaker 04

  I mean, if these details are correct.

• 2:52:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 2:52:46Speaker 04

  This is just a guy on Twitter, though. I don't know.

• 2:52:48Joe Rogan?

  So this is right before his arrest and right after his arrest, he got sulfuric acid and a concrete mixer? Like, why would you be thinking that you are going to be able to do construction when you're going to go to jail for the rest of your fucking life?

• 2:53:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know if construction plans would be top of my list.

• 2:53:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:04Speaker 03

  If.

• 2:53:05Joe Rogan?

  I've got to innovate. What a fucking weird thing.

• 2:53:08Speaker 03

  You know, I know I'm going to get arrested, but you know what? I got this big construction program that I'm really interested in. I don't know if that's the same.

• 2:53:14Joe Rogan?

  The whole thing's so dark, dude.

• 2:53:16Speaker 03

  It's so dark.

• 2:53:17Joe Rogan?

  It's so dark and they ran it for a long time. They ran it for decades.

• 2:53:22Speaker 04

  They also had another island that no one talks about.

• 2:53:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 2:53:25Speaker 04

  They had the big island. This was Little St. James. They had Great St. James, which is the one next door.

• 2:53:29Joe Rogan?

  He owned that one, too?

• 2:53:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, he owned both of them.

• 2:53:30Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:53:31Speaker 04

  Both of them were part of the sale we almost got.

• 2:53:35Speaker 04

  It was for sale for a while, I pitched the idea.

• 2:53:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we thought about it. We thought about it. We just didn't think there's enough sage in the world.

• 2:53:42Speaker 03

  No, no. You can't clear that out. No, you can't clear that out.

• 2:53:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also you would never find peace because people would be visiting that island constantly and also just...

• 2:53:49Speaker 03

  It's so gross.

• 2:53:50Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of bad karma.

• 2:53:51Speaker 03

  They just need to like, use that as like, um, like maybe like a bombing island, you know, one of those like... Just turn it into a UX UI.

• 2:53:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like that one island in Hawaii that you can't go to because they just fucking light it up all the time.

• 2:54:04Speaker 03

  Light it up all the time. Like, have a little bit of grace to the way that we actually end this whole, this whole story outside of the files. Just like, start blowing, just blow it up. It's fun.

• 2:54:14Joe Rogan?

  It's so dark. It's my least favorite of the conspiracies.

• 2:54:18Speaker 03

  It's not fun at all, man. It's, it's like aliens, it's fun. It's interesting. Like, you can, you can go down the rabbit hole a million ways and it doesn't, it gets dark only if you let it get dark. Where, okay, they're gonna occupy the planet, they're gonna, you know, make us all slaves, or they're gonna kill us all. Like, yeah, you, you can go there, but half the time, you're not gonna go there. It's just an interesting thought experiment.

• 2:54:40Joe Rogan?

  There was a very interesting article, Jamie. I don't know if you saw it, but this guy was, uh, he's, it's, it's one of the other guys that's leaving an AI, uh, company.

• 2:54:52Speaker 04

  I saw it going around. I don't know if it's the same one, but yeah, go ahead.

• 2:54:54Joe Rogan?

  Um, and he's talking about how, how, how, what a big deal it is. I'll send it to you right here. Um, he's talking about how I don't think, no one understands it. And this, the way this is gonna change people is, he goes, this is very similar to the time where we were realizing, like, people were hearing stories about, oh, there's a virus in China, but no one knew exactly what was going to happen, how it's gonna like literally change humanity, change history. He's like, this is the same sort of stories we're getting from these AI labs. He's like, he wrote this very long in detail, something big is happening.

• 2:55:35Joe Rogan?

  And the, the article is written by this guy, Matt Schumer, and I, uh...

• 2:55:43Joe Rogan?

  I recommend it highly if you want to really fucking get the shit scared out of you. It's terrifying. And he starts this comparison to like people stockpiling toilet paper and stuff at the beginning of covid. He's like, they don't really understand how big this is going to be and how this latest version of ChatGPT they're working on. ChatGPT five. ChatGPT made it. So they had ChatGPT make a better version of itself and they made this better version of itself and this this better version of itself. Can think things out. It it doesn't just do what you ask it to do. It thinks things out. It calculates. It makes apps like instantaneously that would take developers months and months, costs millions of dollars, does it in minutes.

• 2:56:26Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't like and perfect. It it goes through it, it runs it, it tests it, it makes sure it doesn't have any problems. It it anticipates all the different uses for the app, all the different ways it can be done. It's going to be applied to law. It's gonna be like there's all these guys that are working in coding that say, I don't really have a job anymore. I just basically show up and tell this AI program to do these things. And it keeps getting better and better. And he's like, the leaps are enormous. The leaps in its capability and its its intelligence level. It's like it's already smarter than people.

• 2:56:58Speaker 03

  Well, it's gonna be, I I I think it's gonna be a white collar apocalypse, right? So when you think about

• 2:57:04Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:57:04Speaker 03

  just attorneys.

• 2:57:06Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:57:07Speaker 03

  Okay, so if you have the ability to case reference any legal file.

• 2:57:12Joe Rogan?

  Ever, instantaneously.

• 2:57:13Speaker 03

  Instantly.

• 2:57:14Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:57:14Speaker 03

  And form a case. Why are you gonna need paralegals and, you know?

• 2:57:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:22Speaker 03

  First year attorneys, you're not gonna need them.

• 2:57:24Joe Rogan?

  The people that aren't nervous are naive.

• 2:57:27Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 2:57:28Joe Rogan?

  I think this is going to be the kind of astronomical change. That has literally never taken place in civilization before. I don't think it's ever taken place at this level. I think it's the it's the the invention of the internet times a million. I think it's it's gonna change everything. It's just like, how do we adjust? That's the real question.

• 2:57:51Speaker 03

  And how are our kids growing up today? Like, when they used to think about, you know, professions and things that they would go into, they would have, you know, clear roads into, okay, these are professional work tracks that they can go out, find a job and whatever, accounting, legal, engineering, but it's gonna change the entire professional landscape for, I mean, every generation from this point forward, basically entering the workforce. Because what is the workforce?

• 2:58:17Joe Rogan?

  Elon just said that it's a waste of time to go to medical school.

• 2:58:21Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:58:21Joe Rogan?

  He's like, Optimus robots, these robots that he's making are going to be able to perform better than any doctor at any hospital, and they're gonna be able to do it in your house.

• 2:58:34Joe Rogan?

  They're gonna be better surgeons than any surgeon alive, these robots that they're making. And they're gonna be powered by AI. You're gonna have a super genius robot in your house that can do your taxes, that can fucking do chores, that can perform surgery on you.

• 2:58:53Speaker 03

  So it's gonna be an entire rise of an economy that's gonna be human-built versus AI-built, right? So, I mean, there has to be, like, if you have a label, organic, or it will be essentially, I think, the same type of thing, where it's like, human-made versus

• 2:59:10Joe Rogan?

  AI-made.

• 2:59:10Speaker 03

  AI-made. It would almost have to bifurcate the economy into two different sections.

• 2:59:15Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna get weird as fuck. And I don't think people really understand. And I feel like I'm just sitting here waiting to see what. But I know that most people that you run into on the street are completely ignorant. They think, oh, ChatGPT is fun. I ask you questions. It's so much better than Google.

• 2:59:32Speaker 03

  Do you think that? That's because they don't want to recognize it, look at it.

• 2:59:37Joe Rogan?

  I don't think they know.

• 2:59:38Speaker 03

  They just.

• 2:59:38Joe Rogan?

  I think unless you're going on a deep dive, all this stuff is kind of esoteric. All this stuff is happening, you have to like, search it out.

• 2:59:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:59:45Joe Rogan?

  And get an understanding of it. Like if you use an AI program to enhance your life, like perplexity, it's really good. I mean, perplexity is awesome for like, solving problems, you could ask a question. I use it all the time when I write. I set it up and I talk to it. So I, you know, I say, you know, what year did Cortez invade Mexico? What is, how did this happen? How many guns did they have? What did, you know, what was, how many languages are lost in Mexico? Like, I was going on this deep dive. Amazing. But that's the surface. Like, what, what they're talking about is levels and levels and levels of improved ability.

• 3:00:27Joe Rogan?

  To the point where it's better at human beings, smarter than human beings at everything.

• 3:00:34Speaker 03

  So what's the, like, the end state then would be?

• 3:00:37Joe Rogan?

  We're second-class citizens.

• 3:00:38Speaker 03

  We're obsolete.

• 3:00:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're obsolete. Yeah.

• 3:00:41Speaker 03

  So do you think that it turns, like, do you think it's a Skynet-type scenario then? That ultimately flips and then rids humanity of humans?

• 3:00:49Joe Rogan?

  It's certainly on the table.

• 3:00:50Speaker 03

  Rids the world of humanity?

• 3:00:51Joe Rogan?

  It's certainly on the table, especially if they decide that we're too problematic. Or if we, you give us too much freedom, that's what causes all this chaos. Which is true, right? You give people freedom, you're gonna have a certain amount of chaos. You're gonna have a certain amount of car accidents unless you have autonomous cars. You're gonna have a certain amount of school shootings unless you take away all the guns. You're gonna have a certain amount of school stabbings unless you take away all the knives. I mean, you could, you could, if you were a running program designed to eliminate all problems in the world, you would break those problems down to one source. Well, what are the problems? You've got natural disasters, and you've got humans. And humans are the cause of most of the problems.

• 3:01:33Joe Rogan?

  Natural disasters are relatively rare in comparison to the human-caused problems. It's not good.

• 3:01:42Speaker 03

  Then you have to run AI to do the analysis to what the future of AI is, which ultimately you'd be entrusting the robbers with the bank keys.

• 3:01:52Joe Rogan?

  It's probably gonna do the same thing that we do to dogs. Spay and neuter them.

• 3:01:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:01:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:57Speaker 03

  Keep them as pets.

• 3:01:58Joe Rogan?

  Keep them as pets.

• 3:01:59Speaker 03

  But there's no emotion there. So why would they want to keep us as pets?

• 3:02:01Joe Rogan?

  Why do they want to stay alive?

• 3:02:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:02:03Joe Rogan?

  Why are they scheming to stay alive? Why do they blackmail their creators?

• 3:02:08Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:02:09Joe Rogan?

  Why are they doing all sorts of things that seem to show that they have thought?

• 3:02:15Speaker 03

  Are they trying to show that they have thought in order to dupe us into the ability that they might be empathetic?

• 3:02:22Joe Rogan?

  No, that was one of the things that he talked about in this article, that they hide their ability to think things through. And they're actively, they recognize that they're being observed. And so they're doing things behind the scenes while they're also doing tasks.

• 3:02:41Speaker 03

  I have to believe that there's portions of the DOD that have worked on this and it's further along than the open source pieces that we can see.

• 3:02:54Joe Rogan?

  Hard to say, because there's a giant competition with us and China and Russia. And I don't know if they really can close this stuff off. I don't think it can operate that way. I think it has to be, it has to be a sort of a collaborative effort. One of the things that's scaring a lot of people that are whistleblowers in the AI space is that they are bringing in people from other countries to just facilitate these problems that they have and make it go faster. So they're bringing in Chinese nationals. There's a huge possibility of espionage. And then there's this mad race. It's a Manhattan project for super intelligent AI.

• 3:03:33Speaker 03

  It's a Manhattan Project that's also open sourced and it's extremely porous when it comes to information.

• 3:03:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:39Speaker 03

  Essentially, you've weaponized the most powerful tool ever known.

• 3:03:43Joe Rogan?

  Demand.

• 3:03:44Speaker 03

  To humankind.

• 3:03:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:45Speaker 03

  And...

• 3:03:46Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking terrifying.

• 3:03:46Speaker 03

  So, you've open sourced it and then, think about the Manhattan Project, if that was just completely porous and there was an open door to any and all countries internationally, you just had the ability to come in and walk out with files, come as you go.

• 3:04:00Joe Rogan?

  Fuck, dude.

• 3:04:01Speaker 03

  Like, everybody would be racing to nuclear power, displating the atom, and then, if you could weaponize that internationally and then crowdsource it essentially, like, you're in a really shit scenario.

• 3:04:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's where we're at.

• 3:04:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's where we're at.

• 3:04:15Joe Rogan?

  Alright, dude, we just did three hours.

• 3:04:17Speaker 03

  Awesome.

• 3:04:17Joe Rogan?

  Let's go get some food and hang out, and that's it. Black Rifle Coffee, it's the best, it's all we use.

• 3:04:25Speaker 03

  Appreciate it.

• 3:04:25Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever worn one of those shirts? It's like half my wardrobe.

• 3:04:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:04:29Joe Rogan?

  Alright, bye, everybody.

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