‘The Pitt’ S2E14, ‘The Boys’ S5, and ‘Your Friends and Neighbors’ S2. Plus, ‘The Punisher: One Last Kill’ Trailer and ‘Top Chef’ S23E5.

Chris and Andy talk about rumored casting news swirling around the ‘Superman’ sequel (2:22) and ‘The Punisher: One Last Kill’ trailer (7:04). Then they check in with ‘The Boys’ Season 5 (15:34) and ‘Your Friends and Neighbors’ Season 2 (20:46) before discussing ‘The Pitt’ Season 2, Episode 14 (32:54). Later, they react to ‘Top Chef’ Season 23, Episode 5 (56:28). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Watch and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Additional Video Supervision: Sarah Reddy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:35Speaker 01

  I need sports staff to clear the room. Stand up and walk, now!

• 0:41Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com. And joining me in the studio, Joel Allen Bean's appendix doctor. It's Andy Greenbaum.

• 0:54Andy Greenwald?

  This is gonna be such a good podcast.

• 0:56Chris Ryan?

  This is a different look for us. Usually, I'm the one who's professional, and I'm the one who's on top of it. And I've got the document. You come in and you're just like, "I used to be a critic and now I'm on the other side of the table."

• 1:05Andy Greenwald?

  Wait, that was uncanny.

• 1:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09Chris Ryan?

  But I'm pretty tired, man. I just got off the plane from San Francisco, had a great show with Bill and Mal and Van and the whole Rewatchables crew there last night.

• 1:18Andy Greenwald?

  You mean also Craig?

• 1:20Chris Ryan?

  And Craig.

• 1:20Andy Greenwald?

  Craig was below the line, then. You didn't get the name.

• 1:22Chris Ryan?

  Craig was on stage last night.

• 1:23Andy Greenwald?

  I know.

• 1:24Chris Ryan?

  Craig was right next to me.

• 1:25Andy Greenwald?

  You're like the whole team.

• 1:26Chris Ryan?

  I'm sorry. Do you want me to start the pod over again?

• 1:29Andy Greenwald?

  No, I just... Ever since I went on the Rewatchables and I, you know...

• 1:32Chris Ryan?

  Van just spent like five minutes of Ringer Tailgate referring to me as Sean. So I think it's... Everybody's just trying to piece it all together. It's great to see you, though. You're my homing beacon.

• 1:45Andy Greenwald?

  I'm excited. There's a little grit in your tires today.

• 1:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47Andy Greenwald?

  You know, you can hear it in the voice.

• 1:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, a couple of medallies, a couple of small beers.

• 1:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, just a couple of small beers. The implication, though, that this is usually the reverse? That usually you're on point and buttoned up, and I'm hungover?

• 1:59Chris Ryan?

  No, no. But I just think you're like, "Come what may, let's see what happens when the lights go on."

• 2:05Andy Greenwald?

  That is true. I do come from an improv background.

• 2:07Chris Ryan?

  It's really good to see you, though, man. I was looking for stuff for us to talk about today, aside from The Pit and Top Chef, which we will address. I'll give you a little bit of a programming update, not you, but for our listeners.

• 2:18Andy Greenwald?

  I'm always curious.

• 2:19Chris Ryan?

  That we'll be hitting up Euphoria, season three, episode one, on, I think, Sunday night. I think we'll just put that jam out on Sunday night.

• 2:25Andy Greenwald?

  Why not?

• 2:26Chris Ryan?

  The great work of this podcast is that I never really know what Andy is gonna think of a show, but I have a feeling.

• 2:32Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 2:32Chris Ryan?

  We got a new convert in the Church of Ru.

• 2:36Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I would, I can't say anything.

• 2:39Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:39Andy Greenwald?

  I was gonna, I was gonna make a reference to something that happens in Euphoria 301.

• 2:44Chris Ryan?

  Because this is coming out Thursday.

• 2:45Andy Greenwald?

  I would just say that, that, that, you know, conversion of belief is irrelevant to that episode.

• 2:51Chris Ryan?

  What to talk about? Well, first of all, I did wanna bounce a couple of superhero headlines off of you.

• 2:56Andy Greenwald?

  Let's go.

• 2:57Chris Ryan?

  Number one is, who is Maxima?

• 2:59Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you. First of all, thank you for your question. I wanna be as like, I wanna speak to the layperson when I say this.

• 3:07Chris Ryan?

  That's, that's great. This is a Superman character.

• 3:11Andy Greenwald?

  I have no fucking idea. I think I am on record as a Marvel guy. So, a little bit cooler. And so, but also, like, with James Gunn, and I, we all respect this about Big Jim Gunn.

• 3:25Chris Ryan?

  One day, Kai, if you're like, I have nothing to do for a week, will you put together a montage of him making references to Marvel and just have Marvel guy and an arrow pointing at him? Sorry, I just, I saw that there were a bunch of well-regarded actresses trying out for this role, auditioning for this role.

• 3:44Andy Greenwald?

  We, I don't know which list you saw, because it was actually a little bit controversial yesterday.

• 3:49Chris Ryan?

  Why?

• 3:49Andy Greenwald?

  You know, you, you were strolling the city by the bay, just trying to game out how Alcatraz is gonna go from tourist attraction to full Nicolas Cage, the prison, in a matter of months.

• 4:02Chris Ryan?

  I did keep saying like, like somebody would be like, oh, check that piece of Skyline. I was like, is that Alcatraz? He thought it was all Alcatraz?

• 4:08Andy Greenwald?

  Possibly.

• 4:11Andy Greenwald?

  To answer your question, I have no idea about minor Superman supporting characters. And even if I did, I think that James Gunn's knowledge of like the C and D listers goes even deeper. And that's a credit to him because he makes these characters like he did with Guardians of the Galaxy, important to millions of people around the world. From what I gather, this is an alien character who is a potential love interest for, for Superman.

• 4:33Chris Ryan?

  With her Lois Lane, though.

• 4:34Andy Greenwald?

  Well, you know, there can be a super triangle. I believe that's possible. Or as I was just reading as the number one headline in Hollywood Reporter, Nikki Glaser likes her boyfriend to date other women. And so maybe that's what Lois is like.

• 4:46Chris Ryan?

  Is this a bit that she's doing, though? Or is she like, I actually am in an open relationship?

• 4:51Andy Greenwald?

  I didn't click it.

• 4:52Chris Ryan?

  Well, I don't.

• 4:53Andy Greenwald?

  Did you read the article?

• 4:54Chris Ryan?

  Why would she have read the article? You just discovered it.

• 4:56Andy Greenwald?

  She said she'd already seen it. Don't put this on me.

• 4:59Speaker 04

  Well, so this is an, this is an aggregation from her appearance on Call Her Daddy, I believe. So it made the rounds on Twitter.

• 5:06Andy Greenwald?

  That's another podcast.

• 5:07Speaker 04

  Yesterday. And, you know, I also didn't care to actually click on the video and watch her full.

• 5:13Andy Greenwald?

  This is gold. Clip this.

• 5:16Chris Ryan?

  This is how they do it at the Free Press.

• 5:19Chris Ryan?

  Sounds good.

• 5:21Andy Greenwald?

  Publish. Anyway, no, there was some controversy yesterday because Deadline reported that a number of.

• 5:28Chris Ryan?

  Marisa Bella.

• 5:29Andy Greenwald?

  Actresses were auditioning, including Industries' Marisa Bella. And James Gunn was just like, this is all untrue. I am a fan of these people, but that is not.

• 5:39Chris Ryan?

  Oh.

• 5:40Andy Greenwald?

  These are not, these are not the droids I've been looking for.

• 5:42Chris Ryan?

  Here's the thing, we can always count on Jim to clap back and be like, fake news. Now, did he say Maxima's not in it or just I have not talked to these ladies?

• 5:51Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, this guy's never giving up on X. That's just, that's his preferred communication strategy. No, then, then, and this was in Hollywood Reporter. And Hollywood Reporter was like, actually, we have the exclusive, which by the way, every time we aggregate the trades, it is worth noting they are all owned by the same company. So it's very funny when they, they compete with each other in this way. That apparently the actual final list for the role of Maxima, someone I am unfamiliar with.

• 6:17Chris Ryan?

  Wait, if you're unfamiliar, imagine how I feel.

• 6:19Andy Greenwald?

  Adri Ariana, Eva de Domenici.

• 6:23Andy Greenwald?

  Sydney Chandler and Grace Van Patten, the latter of two of whom have starred on television shows recently.

• 6:28Chris Ryan?

  Grace Van Patten, personal fave. She was great in Tell Me Lies.

• 6:31Andy Greenwald?

  Um, so that's the list. Who do you want to be your alien warrior queen?

• 6:36Chris Ryan?

  Uh.

• 6:37Andy Greenwald?

  Who you got?

• 6:37Chris Ryan?

  Be curious to see Maurice in it.

• 6:39Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, but she's not, she's not in the mix.

• 6:42Chris Ryan?

  But like, that's just one trade's opinion, you know?

• 6:45Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. Okay. Oh, we're going off book today. All right.

• 6:51Chris Ryan?

  This is one trade's opinion.

• 6:53Andy Greenwald?

  Who, who do you want to be cast as Maximo?

• 6:54Chris Ryan?

  Uh, is that guy in, is that guy in Marvel? Marvel, is there a Maximo in Marvel?

• 7:01Andy Greenwald?

  I'm just having fun now. Probably.

• 7:04Chris Ryan?

  Another thing that happened in the world of superhero headlines.

• 7:07Andy Greenwald?

  What's incredible is, we should lead with this. You were in San Francisco with the crew. I watched like seven hours of television.

• 7:17Chris Ryan?

  I've got it.

• 7:18Andy Greenwald?

  And we're starting with casting rumors for characters we don't even know about.

• 7:22Chris Ryan?

  Well, I'm trying to contribute. I can't really.

• 7:24Andy Greenwald?

  It's fine.

• 7:25Chris Ryan?

  You weighed in on it, you know, when you weigh in on these TV shows, I'm just gonna kick back and watch.

• 7:28Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 7:29Chris Ryan?

  Um, that's my show for the week, is watching you cook.

• 7:32Andy Greenwald?

  That's fine.

• 7:33Chris Ryan?

  On Friends and Neighbor. Uh, the only other thing I was gonna bring up is The Punisher, one last kill, special presentation trailer dropped today. Um, this is from, really is from John Bernthal because he.

• 7:45Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 7:46Chris Ryan?

  Co-wrote it with Ronaldo Marcus Green. Ronaldo Marcus Green, uh, his frequent collaborator, worked on We Own This City with him, is directing this. I guess in the spirit of the Werewolf at Night, is that what that one was called?

• 7:59Andy Greenwald?

  Werewolf by Night, yeah.

• 8:00Chris Ryan?

  Werewolf by Night. This is kind of like a one-off, although Punisher, obviously a long-running character for Marvel and the MCU.

• 8:06Andy Greenwald?

  And this is the new Spider-Man movie.

• 8:07Chris Ryan?

  And the new Spider-Man. I don't know if the two, the two knew about each other here because this seems like a very gritty, profane version of Frank Castle, whereas the Spider-Man one seems to be closer to like.

• 8:19Andy Greenwald?

  A little quippy.

• 8:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, a little, little bit more. They, they got some, some Tony Stark in my, in my Punisher.

• 8:24Andy Greenwald?

  Well, we, we contain multitudes.

• 8:26Chris Ryan?

  Sure. Uh, this seems bleak, violent, interesting. Here's the problem with me and Punisher.

• 8:33Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 8:34Chris Ryan?

  Every single time, I'm like. I'm back. And every single time, I don't really find, maybe it's like the character itself has sort of missed its window of relevance. What do you think? I mean, like, but I, every time I see The Punisher on screen, I'm like, that's not exactly how.

• 8:51Andy Greenwald?

  How you prefer vigilante justice.

• 8:52Chris Ryan?

  To be executed.

• 8:55Andy Greenwald?

  That's fine. You have your own, we all have our own way. Uh, yeah, I mean, you're right about that big picture. I think the character, uh, broad strokes is pretty limited, if not abhorrent. There have been some really, really good comic book runs with the character, but I think generally on screen, it's pretty limited unless he's being used as a foil to characters that are frankly more interesting, like the way that Marvel has used this, this version of him recently in relation to Daredevil, or potentially in relation to Spider-Man. Let me put it to you this way, because we're going to watch this, this is a, you know, one off, one hour, potentially. Bernthal going full a tour mode.

• 9:31Chris Ryan?

  Looks like he's just in the raid.

• 9:32Andy Greenwald?

  This is his Bradley Cooper's maestro, I believe. Is this a heat check moment for your guy? And the reason I ask this is because, listen, no one loves John Bernthal more, maybe more than you. Uh, generally, we really like his performances. We like when he shows up at things. He lifts up everything he's a part of.

• 9:50Chris Ryan?

  That's true.

• 9:51Andy Greenwald?

  Currently, he is on Broadway with another, I would say friend of the pod, kind of, Eben Moss-Bachrak. Uh, they're in a adaptation of Dog Day Afternoon, which has been savaged by critics. And in the.

• 10:04Chris Ryan?

  I think, I think some critics have, have seen some good things in it.

• 10:10Andy Greenwald?

  This is the same critics that cast Marisa Vella as Maxima. So this is just your news. That's fine. Uh, the reviews that I.

• 10:19Chris Ryan?

  Like, I'll be the judge. I'll go see it and I'll let you know how it is.

• 10:23Andy Greenwald?

  Do your own research.

• 10:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I'll let you know.

• 10:25Andy Greenwald?

  I, the reviews that I saw definitely came close to tiptoeing up to the edge of saying Bernthal, at this point, was doing Bernthal shtick. And, and I wonder then, that coupled with him being like, I shall write myself a hamlet using Frank Castle, uh, and Hell's Kitchen is my Denmark, might be. It might be a, it might be a prove it moment. I don't know.

• 10:52Chris Ryan?

  Here's my zag on that.

• 10:54Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 10:54Chris Ryan?

  This is the reverse Paltrow. This is.

• 10:57Andy Greenwald?

  Great.

• 10:58Chris Ryan?

  What if Paltrow, plenty of people in the MCU have been like, am I in that? When, when do I have to go to Atlanta? What are we reshooting now?

• 11:05Andy Greenwald?

  Not Atlanta anymore, son.

• 11:06Chris Ryan?

  Well, whatever. What, where are they shooting it now?

• 11:08Andy Greenwald?

  London.

• 11:08Chris Ryan?

  Oh, cool. Um.

• 11:09Andy Greenwald?

  Do you know that I've been there recently? That's how I knew. Which camera? That's how I knew. Go on.

• 11:17Chris Ryan?

  Um.

• 11:18Andy Greenwald?

  I just blew up your whole spot. Reverse Paltrow.

• 11:21Chris Ryan?

  Uh, it's just cool that he has like accrued, he's like, I'll keep playing Punisher.

• 11:26Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 11:26Chris Ryan?

  But one day, me and Ronaldo are making like a true vengeance thriller.

• 11:32Andy Greenwald?

  Like what we want to do.

• 11:33Chris Ryan?

  R-rated, dark, fucking like, and then I'll show up and I'll, I'll make jokes with, with Tom Holland. But it's about like, basically like taking all the chips and pushing them in the middle.

• 11:42Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 11:42Chris Ryan?

  And actually like caring about what, what happens to the character that you're playing. Now, I mean, this could be completely over the top and ridiculous. Burnthall might be just whether or not you rock with him or not. It might just be that like, it's the kind of like what happened with Pacino at a certain point where he just gets sort of pigeonholed into a couple of gestures that he has as an actor.

• 12:04Andy Greenwald?

  And asked to do those.

• 12:05Chris Ryan?

  And, and maybe that's what he, he's relying on, but I, I, I still find him really creative and charming and surprising in almost everything he says.

• 12:14Andy Greenwald?

  He's electric every time he shows up and I will say.

• 12:16Chris Ryan?

  This kind of role and this, this part and being like a tortured vigilante is kind of his bag right now. Like he like, he likes playing this part.

• 12:23Andy Greenwald?

  Even, uh, I have to say as the self-professed Marvel guy that like, I, I am a fan of this type of comic book storytelling in which you can have Punisher, a version of a Punisher that shows up in a Spider-Man comic book, for example, or Spider-Man movie. But then Marvel will also publish something under its like Max designation, which is basically like a R-rated comic or a PG 13 comic where Punisher does the things that actually a character named The Punisher who carries all this.

• 12:52Chris Ryan?

  He drops F bombs and stuff.

• 12:53Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. So you can have, both can exist, you know? It's like, it's like you on this pod versus you on, you know.

• 13:00Chris Ryan?

  Brave new world under Josh Demaro.

• 13:02Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, Josh, well, or, or does Josh Demaro tacitly supporting vigilante justice? His first release under his regime.

• 13:12Chris Ryan?

  Is Iger out by the time this comes out? No.

• 13:14Andy Greenwald?

  He's out already.

• 13:15Chris Ryan?

  He's fully out?

• 13:16Andy Greenwald?

  He was out when they announced it. He was clearing out his palatial office and he didn't take an office down the hall that was slightly bigger like he did with Chapek.

• 13:23Chris Ryan?

  Um, okay. So while I was away.

• 13:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 13:26Chris Ryan?

  You relentlessly pursued greatness.

• 13:29Andy Greenwald?

  My great, my, my true passion.

• 13:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:31Andy Greenwald?

  Which is watching television.

• 13:33Chris Ryan?

  Um, I, I want to hear all about it. So you, you, there's a couple of things on right now that I think you are either hot committed to as a long time watcher, a little bit more curious about where it went from where it was like Friends and Neighbors. Was there anything else that you checked out besides Boys and Friends and Neighbors?

• 13:53Andy Greenwald?

  No, I just, well, I mean, no, but in, in the day you were gone, I was Top Chef, Euphoria, The Boys and your Friends and Neighbors.

• 13:59Chris Ryan?

  I mean, you're an animal. Like, please, please run free, leash off. This dog park is, is just for you.

• 14:07Andy Greenwald?

  It's okay.

• 14:07Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 14:09Andy Greenwald?

  How much time do we have left?

• 14:11Chris Ryan?

  It's hard, isn't it?

• 14:12Andy Greenwald?

  It's real hard.

• 14:13Chris Ryan?

  It's hard hosting. Uh, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I feel like we may revisit some of these shows or maybe we'll, we'll do a more extended or I'll, I'll do a little extended off Broadway one man show about some of them. Um, I found, I guess I'll say this about my experience watching. So The Boys has two episodes up. Your Friends and Neighbors has one episode up and I will not. The last time I was watching The Boys was the, uh, Soldier, Soldier Boy. What's this? What's that character's name?

• 14:45Andy Greenwald?

  Soldier Boy, the rapper.

• 14:46Chris Ryan?

  What's the act, the character on?

• 14:48Andy Greenwald?

  Soldier Boy, but it's spelled differently.

• 14:50Chris Ryan?

  It's not Soldier Boy, is it?

• 14:52Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, it is. It is, but it doesn't have a J.

• 14:54Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 14:54Andy Greenwald?

  You know what I mean? Spelled Soldier.

• 14:57Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 14:57Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. Um, and this, and that character and actor will be.

• 15:01Chris Ryan?

  Jensen Ackles.

• 15:02Andy Greenwald?

  Jensen Ackles will be reprising that role on the upcoming Boys prequel series, also starring our friend Ia Cash. Um, and he's back, but that was so that I think you've missed season four.

• 15:14Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 15:16Andy Greenwald?

  No spoilers for this portion, just to say that I did find this exercise interesting in the conversation that we are having and that we will be having on Sunday night about ongoing television shows. Because as we've been saying, and as we will prove on our Sunday night show, I have engaged with Euphoria completely cold, having seen nothing and Googling nothing. And boy, was it freeing. And to do that at the same time while I'm watching these shows, one in its second season, one in its fifth and final season, and seeing the ways that shows these days with the production demands in terms of delays between seasons or lack thereof in the case of Your Friends

• 15:55Andy Greenwald?

  and Neighbors, expectations of the audience, et cetera, how they engage with what used to just be making TV. I will say that the thing about The Boys is that it is very, very, very hard to... This was also the text of the Stick to Landing podcast. It's really hard to end things.

• 16:14Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 16:15Andy Greenwald?

  Because in the final stretch, every choice you make and everything you do is almost a meta textual comment about the show that you've been making and how you want it to be, as opposed to ongoing concerns where things could change. There's a sense of possibility, a sense of creativity, a sense of limitless stakes.

• 16:31Chris Ryan?

  There's also The Boys is now a full-on television franchise and has multiple spinoffs.

• 16:36Andy Greenwald?

  But does it? That's the other thing. It felt quite expansive for a moment, and then it did have its Gen V spinoff that I sort of dropped out of after one season. And from what I understand, I don't know if they're planning to continue it, but it seems like the second season of that show really functioned as story spackle between the seasons of The Boys.

• 16:57Chris Ryan?

  I don't know.

• 16:59Andy Greenwald?

  Making it essential. Or actually, because to the spirit of my Euphoria point, kind of inessential, because they talk about what happened in season two of Gen V in passing. In terms of like, now we have the virus. Not like they have the virus. They're all doing quite well.

• 17:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:13Andy Greenwald?

  But like they have it in a little vial. You know what I mean?

• 17:15Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 17:16Andy Greenwald?

  Um.

• 17:17Chris Ryan?

  First three episodes went up?

• 17:18Andy Greenwald?

  First two episodes, which was, they had been doing three and now it's like, why would they give that much away? Like at least extend it a little bit. I, I would say that if you have been a fan of the, the boys previously, you will still be a fan of the boys. Because it is still essentially the same show and it is clever and it is often at its most clever, I think, when it runs right towards. Runs right past being like, we are a veiled analogy for what's going on in America. And it's just like, fuck it. This is what we're doing.

• 17:43Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:43Andy Greenwald?

  Such as like the, the signs that say in this house, we believe in Homelander on people's lawns. And there's some teen characters in the second episode. Act like as they are detaining people who support Starlight. Uh, they are also doing viral TikTok content promoting energy drinks while they escort mothers away from their children. Um, which feels prescient. Um, so that, all that stuff's good. And I think Anthony Star is continuing to do. Like that guy, I, I'm not a really big fan of like, give this person an Emmy now. But this guy's really good and has been really good in a very thankless part.

• 18:18Chris Ryan?

  Uh, is there roadmap like the Garth Ennis comic? Does that have like an endpoint? They've blown past it.

• 18:26Andy Greenwald?

  I think that, I, I think that it could be looked back on as a really creative and timely and also just very practical adaptation.

• 18:34Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 18:34Andy Greenwald?

  Um, in a lot of ways, like when the show premiered, I think people who are fans of the comic, which Garth Ennis also famous for writing probably the best Punisher stories. Um, it is just depraved.

• 18:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:46Andy Greenwald?

  And so, so, so cynical. And, you know, they made changes in the beginning that some people were complaining about, but were necessary for the longer run of the show. Like, um. The Huey character who's played so quite winningly.

• 19:01Chris Ryan?

  By Jack Quaid.

• 19:02Andy Greenwald?

  By Jack Quaid. Um, in the comics, kind of looks like a slightly smaller, sadder, pre hair plug Simon Pegg.

• 19:11Chris Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 19:12Andy Greenwald?

  And not at all like the potential romantic lead of a five season Amazon Prime show. And as a nod to that, Simon Pegg played Huey's father in the show, but. You needed that character to be this character to have some story instead of just carnage. And now we're reaching the endgame when it's pretty much just gonna be carnage, but also all the characters are like, Monkour, I cannot sacrifice you to the virus.

• 19:36Chris Ryan?

  That guy's still kicking, huh?

• 19:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 19:37Chris Ryan?

  The French dude?

• 19:37Andy Greenwald?

  And there's other stuff that you see that like in long running shows where, His mind, he's not, he's not, he's not a soup.

• 19:44Chris Ryan?

  Oh, okay.

• 19:44Andy Greenwald?

  He's just like a drug cook who also can cook up some virus. Am I selling you on this show?

• 19:49Chris Ryan?

  I've watched three seasons of it. I think I was just like, I feel like I've gotten it.

• 19:55Chris Ryan?

  I don't really find, I never really found the, the boys to be like bursting with dramatic tension. And so I guess that's why I was like, I feel like maybe after 30 hours or whatever, that's enough.

• 20:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, but like, I know that because you've watched the first three seasons that you're familiar with a character whose superpower is that his manhood is a giant.

• 20:14Chris Ryan?

  I remember that guy.

• 20:15Andy Greenwald?

  Person clubbing snake?

• 20:16Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 20:17Andy Greenwald?

  Well, if you ever want to know how that guy's story ends, tune in.

• 20:21Chris Ryan?

  I saw the first episode of DTF St. Louis, I know.

• 20:24Andy Greenwald?

  Fair enough. And there's just other little details where it's like, you could tell that, that Karen Fukahara was like, I'm excited to come back for my final season on this hit show, but could I please stop being a deaf mute?

• 20:35Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 20:36Andy Greenwald?

  And, and so then.

• 20:37Chris Ryan?

  Did they give her like a musical scene?

• 20:39Andy Greenwald?

  They, they actually had her musical scene last season, but no, that now she just speaks flawless American English.

• 20:45Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 20:46Andy Greenwald?

  Claiming that she just had some therapy and watched a lot of TikTok in the off season. So now she just curses a lot like everybody else, which is fun for her, I would imagine. But yes, in terms of like, the, the reason you watch though with a show like that, and the reason why I will continue to watch is because I've liked the way they built the story. I like a lot of the performers. And yeah, you kind of have to see how it ends because they are, the one thing about the show, not one thing, but one thing you, you do have to give it credit for is that it is relatively unsentimental. And so there will be a high body count and some sort of definitive ending.

• 21:16Chris Ryan?

  So that's the, the show that is coming to a conclusion. The show that seems like it is perhaps getting ready for a four, five season run is Your Friends and Neighbors, which. I think we covered relatively in depth last year.

• 21:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 21:29Chris Ryan?

  And faded along the backstretch of the first season. Perhaps for me, and this is a factor with a lot of TV shows, is as the character palette expanded and it went to ABC and D plots. The way I feel like a lot of long running Apple shows sometimes do and the way many television shows sometimes do, I found myself just like less urgently watching it. And then they bring on James Marsden for the second season. I haven't got a chance to check it out yet, but do you feel like they are setting this one up for three, four seasons of Jon Hamm looking great and sitting in their cool cars?

• 22:04Andy Greenwald?

  What's remarkable about the show, and I, I, I kind of respect this, is that there is not even a shadow of an attempt to pretend that it's going to, anyone's learned anything. Or anything's changed.

• 22:17Chris Ryan?

  And they brought Munn back, right?

• 22:19Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 22:19Chris Ryan?

  Even though she murdered her husband.

• 22:20Andy Greenwald?

  Well, no, she, spoiler, she didn't.

• 22:23Chris Ryan?

  Oh, okay.

• 22:23Andy Greenwald?

  But she did then try to, he wasn't, it was a, he, he, uh, he died by suicide.

• 22:29Chris Ryan?

  Oh, but then she tried to frame Coop because he broke up with her.

• 22:32Andy Greenwald?

  Um, it happens. I-

• 22:35Chris Ryan?

  That's Nikki Glaser.

• 22:36Andy Greenwald?

  I think, I'm gonna click now. I, I give the show credit for being absolutely clear eyed about like, we're just gonna hit a reset button and do it again. Um, shows, lesser shows, and frankly, better shows have tied themselves in remarkable knots, trying to get themselves back to some starting point or to wrestle with the really challenging corners that they painted themselves into. The show does none of that. Um, in the opening moments, Coop looking amazing is on a beautiful vacation in Mexico and he's drinking whiskey and women are flirting with him again. So, thank God for that.

• 23:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 23:13Andy Greenwald?

  I think within that comment is also my ongoing criticism of the show. And oh, I should say, if you have, what is, you know, in Ferris Bueller, uh, when he's like talking about the car and he's like, if you have the opportunity to drive it, you really should. That's how I feel about casting James Marsden.

• 23:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 23:27Andy Greenwald?

  At this point, like if you have the opportunity, it is so choice.

• 23:30Chris Ryan?

  Get Wildcat on your cast, too.

• 23:32Andy Greenwald?

  He livens up every second of the show that he is in, and this is just through one episode that's been up. Playing the part of an incredibly rich, incredibly charming guy, who maybe has some secrets, but who cares? Because he throws good parties. Uh, is not, I would say, a challenge or outside of his, uh, wheelhouse. He's phenomenal.

• 23:53Andy Greenwald?

  This show is also the kind of show where you introduce him and he says like, "My name's Owen Ash, but everyone calls me Ash." And he's like, "Andrew Cooper, but everyone calls me Coop." And they're like, "Let's touch tips." You know what I mean? Like, it's like, that's, that's the level that we're dealing with here.

• 24:07Chris Ryan?

  But let's sword fight too, because isn't he the adversary kinda?

• 24:09Andy Greenwald?

  Not yet, but probably, yes. The, I, I say this with affection and respect, because there are a lot of people involved in this show that I like and respect and care about a lot. Like Jonathan Trumper's a really nice guy when I've interviewed him. My good friend Zach Geller is doing beautiful work as the DP on this show. Amanda Peet is on this show and she's really good.

• 24:31Andy Greenwald?

  The way that you were describing DTF St. Louis, which I thought was also very considerate and delicate. Where you were like, perhaps this is-

• 24:39Chris Ryan?

  I think it's a me problem.

• 24:41Andy Greenwald?

  That ultimately may be how I feel about this show. Because fundamentally, like, it's not just that I bump on the show's aesthetic choices. Like, I think that the, the needle drops and the-

• 24:54Chris Ryan?

  They're still doing narration?

• 24:56Andy Greenwald?

  The narration and also the like, just the way, like, the people on the show have no taste, but there doesn't seem to be any opinion about that. I said that last year as well. Like, what's-his-name, Marsden throws a party in his giant mansion that features like, a gyrating woman playing electric violin and a DJ. And all the rich people are like, "This electric violin is amazing." But I'm like, "Does anyone have an opinion about how stupid this looks or about how they look?"

• 25:21Chris Ryan?

  Can I just ask you a quick question?

• 25:22Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 25:23Chris Ryan?

  Who was the hip-hop cellist? Mary Benari?

• 25:26Andy Greenwald?

  She wasn't a cellist, she was a violinist.

• 25:27Chris Ryan?

  Violinist, hip-hop violinist.

• 25:28Andy Greenwald?

  She was all over College Dropout.

• 25:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 25:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I, I mean, I would have actually, I would, I'm curious of her thoughts about Kanye these days, judging by her name. You know what I mean? I feel like she's probably got some thoughts.

• 25:41Chris Ryan?

  I was just thinking about, that was, that was really funny.

• 25:44Andy Greenwald?

  The hip-hop violinist?

• 25:45Chris Ryan?

  We just had a hip-hop violinist and we were like, "This is, this really takes things to the next level."

• 25:49Andy Greenwald?

  What about when we had a hip-hop butler? Remember that dude, Fonzworth Bentley?

• 25:52Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:53Andy Greenwald?

  You just, he's like, "I'm a butler with an umbrella." And we're like, "That's sick." "That's so cool."

• 25:58Chris Ryan?

  I honestly can say, as somebody who was in the shit back then-

• 26:01Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, you were.

• 26:02Chris Ryan?

  I never had an opinion on Fonzworth Bentley.

• 26:03Andy Greenwald?

  You don't have an opinion?

• 26:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I was like, "This is, this is a, a no-go zone for me." Like, I'm just, I'm more focused-

• 26:10Andy Greenwald?

  I'm sorry, I'm, I'm racking these G-Unit mixtapes right now.

• 26:14Chris Ryan?

  I uh, I saw an Instagram video of a dude just getting excited at the 50 cent intro for his, for Get Rich From Dry Drying. And he's just like,

• 26:28Andy Greenwald?

  That was you back in the day.

• 26:29Chris Ryan?

  This is better than Your Friends And Neighbors.

• 26:32Andy Greenwald?

  Honestly, yes, it is. It's just the, there's a moment, you know, the, the show just has, it is a absolutely slippery, well put together. You can't get any purchase or grip around it because the characters don't really have any

• 26:51Andy Greenwald?

  depth in terms of like, what they're fighting for. The stakes of the first season was how is Coop going to afford to maintain his lifestyle? And so his elder daughter, who is a legacy applicant, will get into Princeton and is also being recruited for tennis. And that is less interesting to me. And this idea that he's robbing his friends and neighbors, first of all, seems would be diminishing returns because how many friends and neighbors does he have to keep up his multimillion dollar lifestyle?

• 27:17Chris Ryan?

  But he's got his friend, the maid, who's hooking him up with the intel, that stuff.

• 27:21Andy Greenwald?

  Sure. But at a certain point, I believe one of these friends and/or neighbors would be like, this spade of robberies has to be spooked. I shall put in a state of the art security system, which to date has not happened.

• 27:31Chris Ryan?

  I think my, my major issue with it was always that if you're going to put somebody in a criminal situation and are not going to play it for straight laughs, like you're not going to make like a comic satire of this world. And you're going to have him being hunted down by gangsters and getting into trouble with his pawnbroker and getting pulled into all these different scenarios where there's blood spilled. I think you have to kind of keep pushing to somewhere new, every iteration.

• 28:00Andy Greenwald?

  I agree with this.

• 28:01Chris Ryan?

  Look, not everything can be or should be Breaking Bad. But what Breaking Bad did was take a very basic idea, not dissimilar from the one that Your Friends And Neighbors is dealing with, which is a guy who's fallen on hard times in terms of criminality to support his lifestyle, but also mostly to support his family. And every season, every episode, every decision that Walt made was related back to this cascading series of decisions. To your point about Coop being basically at zero. Starting season two exactly where he started season one.

• 28:33Andy Greenwald?

  Which is quite comfortable.

• 28:34Chris Ryan?

  Which is quite comfortable and all the characters kind of like, for some reason, we all live around one another still. Like, it just becomes like this now is kind of moved into like Nightlight territory and I have other Nightlights, but some, I know people who love the show.

• 28:48Andy Greenwald?

  I think that's very, very well said. I think that there is, I think there's a lot of, there actually is a lot of, there are a lot of interesting stories to be told about the current economy that aren't all necessarily from the perspective of the maids, uh, which would be a more interesting show, but you could talk about, and the show has given lip service to this idea of trying to keep up with the Joneses or whatever. Um, but ultimately that the show doesn't seem to be that interested in that. It seems to be interested in humanizing masters of the universe inside of their mansions and inside of their middle-aged malaise, which actually from the outside, and I speak, and by the way, I'm saying this with a body riddled with middle-aged malaise. I don't think it's as compelling perhaps as the people

• 29:32Andy Greenwald?

  making the show believe it to be. Um, and I think ultimately that's a bummer. And so like, there's a scene when all the fellas in the neighborhood are talking about their like rotator cuff injuries in the sauna and about the new guy who's moving in with all his money. And then they make a joke about making America great again. And they're like, oh, no politics in the hot, in the sauna, boys. And at that moment, I wish the sinkhole from Dark Knight Rises would just open beneath.

• 29:57Chris Ryan?

  It wasn't a sinkhole.

• 29:58Andy Greenwald?

  Westchester.

• 29:59Chris Ryan?

  That was Bane. That was Bane blowing up Three River Stadium.

• 30:02Andy Greenwald?

  But he created a sinkhole with his explosions.

• 30:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:05Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, you mean because the sinkhole is a natural phenomenon?

• 30:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:08Andy Greenwald?

  In terms of all of these people dying, it could be a sinkhole.

• 30:12Chris Ryan?

  It would be funny if Bane was like, I just happen to know that there will be a sinkhole right here under this football stadium.

• 30:18Andy Greenwald?

  That's actually kind of amazing. If Bane just like read the weather reports and understood.

• 30:22Chris Ryan?

  Geology.

• 30:23Andy Greenwald?

  Geology so deeply. Yeah.

• 30:26Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 30:27Chris Ryan?

  Two thumbs down.

• 30:28Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I think you always, you always, you always keep your nose clean. Like, I think what you said makes more sense, that ultimately this is a nightlight. And I, I think that my, my frustration with it, if, is that it's not, for me, it is not light and charming enough to be a nightlight. Because it carries itself quite heavily. And the characters do things, like in this episode, Coop's daughter has her interview in another mansion for Princeton, because she's still not in. And the guy's like, what do you think about this? And she's just like, I don't think you really care what I think, because, you know, your generation created this as a legacy project to reward itself, so that people like me will get to do the same thing on the backs of all of the, like, unlike the immigrants and Jews, and these people who aren't accepted by your institutions, but also tennis.

• 31:13Andy Greenwald?

  And he's like, whoa.

• 31:15Chris Ryan?

  I would watch that. This version of the show is much more entertaining.

• 31:19Andy Greenwald?

  I just, there's, there's just a, I'm eager to talk about Euphoria. I am, but the only thing that I'll say is that I am here, I'm interested in absolute unreality phony baloney, if it has some aestheticism to it.

• 31:36Chris Ryan?

  Yep.

• 31:37Andy Greenwald?

  And that was what my struggle, and perhaps that's why it, it paled in comparison. I didn't mean to talk this long about the show, about, this is the second season of which I've seen one episode of.

• 31:46Chris Ryan?

  It's okay. I think we're talking more about, like, TV watching habits and what we go to television for. And there are times where I'm like, you know what, I really just want to be watching season five that we're on of Abbott, and I still think I've done every episode of Abbott. Like, I have, I have time for that.

• 32:03Andy Greenwald?

  That's big in my house. The girls.

• 32:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:05Andy Greenwald?

  Love Abbott.

• 32:06Chris Ryan?

  But the one hour dramedy where nothing really ever is of consequence is kind of like, I'm, I'm pretty allergic to it at this point, you know?

• 32:17Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, and I am also finding that the show's vision of robbery.

• 32:24Andy Greenwald?

  It's not like I'm some like, I mean, I have seen the film Thief, but other than that, I don't really know. I'm not, I wouldn't claim any expertise.

• 32:31Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 32:32Andy Greenwald?

  But in, in this episode, there's an attempt to bring, um, Hoon Lee's character is an actor I really love, uh, who plays Barney, his like financial, whatever, financial advisor into the criminal conspiracy. And in order to do that, you need to lay some track about why he would. And so within this episode, we meet his disapproving father-in-law who thinks that he's not, you know, making enough money. Making enough money and whatever. And so he has a kind of similar to Coop, like a fuck it, like let's, let's do it the bad way. But I'm like, now I'm, now I'm crunching the numbers and now you're splitting the income three ways.

• 33:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:06Andy Greenwald?

  And at the end of season one, Coop turned down it, as explained in this episode, a potential eight-figure annual salary.

• 33:12Chris Ryan?

  To go back to the office, right?

• 33:14Andy Greenwald?

  To go back to the office and instead to just rob. And I'm like, look, no one will ever accuse me of being in a quant, but I just feel like the math isn't mathin' here, you know?

• 33:24Chris Ryan?

  Let's talk a little bit about adjusting dudes' fines blind.

• 33:27Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you.

• 33:28Chris Ryan?

  Uh, let's talk about The Pit, the penultimate episode written by Noah Wiley and, uh, directed by Uta Brishwitz.

• 33:33Andy Greenwald?

  Was this a Noah-written episode?

• 33:34Chris Ryan?

  It was. And it was, uh, 8:00 PM. We're still fucking here. We're still, we haven't punched out yet. People are digitizing their charts. It's, it's weird that these last few episodes to me, and especially this one, I struggle to remember patients now because the character drama in this, the way that they have set up the end of the season of like,

• 33:55Andy Greenwald?

  The character stuff's coming to the fore.

• 33:56Chris Ryan?

  What are you still doing here?

• 33:58Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 33:58Chris Ryan?

  And that's what everybody is asking them. Everybody is telling these doctors, you can go now, you can go now, you can go now. And they're still hanging out and they're still bantering and they're still talking about what this day has done to them. And, uh, we had two basically major reveals. Robbie explicitly talking about his suicidal ideation to Duke.

• 34:21Chris Ryan?

  This was what The Pit does incredibly well. I want to remember the name of the actor who plays Duke because it's somebody who I've seen a million times in a million things, Jeff Coburn, Jeff Coburn. Uh, and this is what this show does incredibly well. He has been sitting on a hospital bed for nine hours. And he has basically had the dramatic beat of Robbie, don't forget about me. Here I am on this gurney.

• 34:46Andy Greenwald?

  Well, he had the nurse.

• 34:47Chris Ryan?

  Sure, that was fun, too. And he's like gotten this tough news about his this, his heart problem, right?

• 34:54Andy Greenwald?

  It appears that he has the same aneurysm on the aorta that the professor, who thought he had gall, kidney stones, who died in upset, upset Ogilvy, the Ogilvy plotline.

• 35:08Chris Ryan?

  Oh.

• 35:08Andy Greenwald?

  It is a.

• 35:09Chris Ryan?

  Where they were just like, we're just going to give you, this is a simple fix.

• 35:12Andy Greenwald?

  But because he didn't see the MRI or the CAT scan, whatever it was, that's a ticking time bomb that can be seen and can be remedied.

• 35:18Chris Ryan?

  Um, but this guy's been basically relegated to background player for the season and he gets one of the emotional payoffs of the season in this conversation with Robbie out in the ambulance bay. Robbie's bike has been hit, very metaphorical.

• 35:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, for real.

• 35:36Chris Ryan?

  Um, and he is perhaps not going to be able to go on his trip. It turns out Duke's able to like make it, get it into good shape enough, good enough shape to ride. But he's like, hey, man, why don't you just let me take the bike back to my garage? And in a couple of days, I'll have it up and running. And Robbie is like, I have to go.

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• 36:22Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I have to go, I have to go. The revelation of this scene, I think everybody who's been watching the show knows how Robbie has been doing or feeling. And it's not altogether different than how he was feeling at the end of the first season up on the roof of the abbey. But the revelation is that, is that it's not the pit that's bothering him.

• 36:42Andy Greenwald?

  It's everything else.

• 36:43Chris Ryan?

  It's everything outside of the ED and that it is. A guy who, even though we get a little glimpse of his love life this season and a little bit of glimpse of his social life this season, it's all attached to the emergency department. It's all attached to that hospital.

• 36:58Andy Greenwald?

  And I just realized they call it ED so much because they don't want to give the estate of Michael Crichton anything.

• 37:02Chris Ryan?

  And I, every single time, I'm like, I'm not talking about erectile dysfunction, but I'm trying to, I'm trying to honor their wishes by calling it the ED.

• 37:11Andy Greenwald?

  Midlife malaise comes for all shows.

• 37:13Chris Ryan?

  Yes, and I thought this was a beautifully acted, beautifully written, beautifully executed scene that could have been way more like storming around and crying and him just being like, I don't know if I want to be here anymore, like be anywhere anymore, was just really effective.

• 37:33Andy Greenwald?

  I'd note that Jeff Coburn is an actor who's been, who's been acting for decades and has credits like from the eighties. He also is a, this is from his Instagram bio, embracing bliss, author and podcaster, actor, meditation teacher, tintype photographer.

• 37:51Chris Ryan?

  So I wonder, I wonder if like, he's, he's got, I'm just asking, I wonder if he has a relationship with Noah.

• 37:56Andy Greenwald?

  This is what I mean. I think that one of the low key, some of the, it's a low key brilliant part of the pit, which is that Noah has been, he's a native Angeleno and he's been acting for so long, he has a community of people here that he wants to raise up, put on whatever. And when you hear him talk about Sean Hattassey and their relationship, it's like, we've always gotten along because we've known each other forever and we, you know, we, at auditions or just being here, and we've, in passing, we have a sibling like relationship. So you put him on the show, it's just instant, instant. And I don't know if he knows this guy prior to the show, but that sense of like, this

• 38:39Andy Greenwald?

  is someone who will bring the right energy, who will be able to just be present in limited screen time up until that moment with that depth of zen or calm or self-reflection that is needed. It's, it's a subtle way to seed story on a show that doesn't have a lot of real estate for long scenes of dialogue or long speeches normally. I'm totally with you on the triumph of that scene and that will be and should be Noah's Emmy reel before he wins an Emmy again later this year.

• 39:08Chris Ryan?

  Instead of him going doctor the fuck up.

• 39:10Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I kind of like that.

• 39:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:11Andy Greenwald?

  It reminded me of what you said to me last week about watching the terror. So I felt I felt a little bit seen. I thought this episode was a really interesting case study in the best of the pit, the scene and the entire slow moving catastrophe of the patient with the spinal injury.

• 39:30Chris Ryan?

  That's my kind of medicine.

• 39:31Andy Greenwald?

  Outrageous.

• 39:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:32Andy Greenwald?

  This episode was also the worst of the pit in ways that took me out.

• 39:36Chris Ryan?

  Okay, I bet I can guess what this is.

• 39:38Andy Greenwald?

  Let's get into it. I mean, this is the, this is also why I love having the show of my life because we can granularly critique, point out, highlight.

• 39:47Chris Ryan?

  Here's the thing, I know you're talking about Al Hishimy's reveal.

• 39:49Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not.

• 39:50Chris Ryan?

  Oh.

• 39:51Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not.

• 39:51Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 39:52Andy Greenwald?

  Not even. I'm not even.

• 39:53Chris Ryan?

  Oh.

• 39:54Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, come on now.

• 39:57Andy Greenwald?

  Was that from the Punisher trailer? I'm not familiar with the reference.

• 40:01Chris Ryan?

  Good.

• 40:02Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 40:02Chris Ryan?

  Cause that, I was gonna fight you on that.

• 40:04Andy Greenwald?

  No, I thought that was fine.

• 40:05Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 40:07Andy Greenwald?

  I felt, well, there were a couple, there were a couple of minor things. One was when the tide goes out on the show, in terms of momentum or a crush of patients or whatever, and we have some character beats. Sometimes really good things come from it, like the three residents sitting around this paper shredder, all great. The other thing that some, sometimes comes up, and maybe this is what Noah wanted, and Noah's the EP, so that stayed in. There was a lot of dated pop culture references in the script, and it was a little quippy. So there was the like, okay, guy playing Clue, you know, who doesn't have a clue, you know? And then there was the like, oh, Rumblefish? Totally. Let's make a Rumblefish reference.

• 40:48Chris Ryan?

  Is Rumblefish set in Pittsburgh? No, or is it set in Tulsa? Cause it's SE hin.

• 40:53Andy Greenwald?

  I would imagine so. We can't, we can't keep forgiving things because they're set in Pittsburgh. Like, early in the season, I was like, this schmaltzy ballad. And then we get all this feedback being like, that was actually written by a Pittsburgh native singer songwriter who's incredibly important and also puts french fries and sandwiches. And I'm like, okay, sounds good. I'm on, I love Pittsburgh. I feel like, hey, hey, guys. Big fan of Pittsburgh over here. Legitimately am.

• 41:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 41:16Andy Greenwald?

  Great town, great ballpark. There was the zinger about the, um. About like, uh, passion play and stuff. It just felt labored in the same way that the dialogue can feel labored when they do the turn to camera. Actually, this is what happens when many women are misdiagnosed with heart attacks.

• 41:33Chris Ryan?

  We have a 50% chance of 80% of saving your life, but if we don't do it, it's 2030 that you're gonna not be able to walk again.

• 41:39Andy Greenwald?

  And then he turns to all the women. The women were like, "I too believe in living."

• 41:43Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:43Andy Greenwald?

  And then, like, I was like, "Okay." Um, but that's also, that's the show. Um, but I did feel, the big picture comment is that, what you said at the beginning, that it is really interesting the way the show has done the opposite of what we expected, which is, the tide has gone out at the end, right when we were expecting things to be crescendoing, and what's left for us to pick through, like shells on the beach, or, what do you call the beach of the Three Rivers as they come together?

• 42:12Chris Ryan?

  Driftwood? Oh, I don't know.

• 42:13Andy Greenwald?

  I don't, I don't know either.

• 42:14Chris Ryan?

  A tributary?

• 42:15Andy Greenwald?

  Sure. Probably not. You know who we need? Geologist Bane. If you would like to dig deep and give-

• 42:21Chris Ryan?

  Like, he blew Pittsburgh up. If you consider Gotham Pittsburgh, I, I-

• 42:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, canonically.

• 42:27Chris Ryan?

  I, I understand that it's not, it's not supposed to be considered Pittsburgh, but to me, it is, it is something of a Pittsburgh, uh, stand-in.

• 42:34Andy Greenwald?

  I don't-

• 42:35Chris Ryan?

  Cause that's Heinz Ward out there.

• 42:36Andy Greenwald?

  This probably isn't for this podcast. That's Heinz Ward out there!

• 42:40Chris Ryan?

  It is Heinz Ward.

• 42:41Andy Greenwald?

  I know. He's like, he's running.

• 42:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, he finishes the play.

• 42:44Andy Greenwald?

  It's blown up. And then he turns around, right? And he's like, "Ooh."

• 42:47Chris Ryan?

  He's like, "No!"

• 42:47Andy Greenwald?

  "Oh, no."

• 42:48Chris Ryan?

  "Ben Roethlisberger!"

• 42:52Chris Ryan?

  "Not you!"

• 42:54Andy Greenwald?

  Jerome the Bus-Benist!

• 42:55Chris Ryan?

  Ben can dig anyone, but not Big Ben!

• 43:00Andy Greenwald?

  Canonically, Christopher Nolan's Gotham goes from Chicago to Pittsburgh in the span of two movies.

• 43:05Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 43:06Andy Greenwald?

  Not just where he filmed it, but like, just the vibes.

• 43:08Chris Ryan?

  Well, there's all, I mean, this is also your MCU hopping from Atlanta to London now.

• 43:12Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, did you know that?

• 43:14Chris Ryan?

  Get back to what you were saying, though.

• 43:15Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, what is left is a surprising amount of room for banter, some of which is successful, some of which isn't, for characters to reflect on what's happened or what hasn't happened in their lives, in their day, in their career. Um, and that is interesting to watch. There's been some- Like discourse this week about people saying, "The pit isn't this," or "The pit is this," or "You guys are watching it wrong because you straw audience members think it's a prestige drama when in fact it's not. It just nods towards some prestige elements in order to just, you know, do its meat and potatoes kind of storytelling." And I think the beauty of the show is that it is so successful at binding these two very

• 44:00Andy Greenwald?

  disparate threads of storytelling. And sometimes it succeeds in surprising ways and places. The Duke scene is the type of scene that, you know, I don't know if I would have expected this show would have had time for. If not, an Akota to the season, you know, maybe in the park afterwards or something, but they carved out space for it and it hit.

• 44:22Andy Greenwald?

  Some of the other stuff, uh, less so.

• 44:25Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 44:26Andy Greenwald?

  But, but which isn't to dismiss all the character stuff because I was referring to, like the Duke Perla scene, like these little moments. Awesome.

• 44:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 44:33Andy Greenwald?

  Monica leaving for her life of mahjong and margaritas. Godspeed.

• 44:36Chris Ryan?

  Very fun. I mean, I enjoyed the Mel McKay, like Ren Faire bit where she's like, "Maybe I should go get really into Revolutionary War reenacting shit." They're like, "You should check that out."

• 44:49Andy Greenwald?

  I also think that just generally the night shift being saltier and just not being as like, "Teach first."

• 44:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 44:58Andy Greenwald?

  What was the line? Like, what did they say to one of the patients? "Shut your fucking mouth," I believe was the medical diagnosis for the guy with the flag in his lung. Cool. Different energy.

• 45:09Chris Ryan?

  At the end of last season, you have this mass shooting, you have this insane casualty event, and it renders all of these characters shells of themselves. Robbie's up on the roof looking out. And I think as audience members, we too are up on that roof with him after that first season. In this season, while the cyber attack or the shutdown in response to the cyber attack is complicated, it winds up probably costing a life and the English teacher because of lack of scans. It's ultimately like probably more grinding for the characters than it is for the audience. Like, I kind of forgot a couple of times that they were doing the filing

• 45:52Chris Ryan?

  system, you know, that they were doing like semaphore to communicate what they were doing out there. And so I think that may be the root of what you're reacting to. Like, is that there is, this is now pure character being written rather than reacting to action?

• 46:08Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, and, and the show is revealing itself as it necessarily had to. It's not a event series about one of the worst days in the history of the Pittsburgh hospital.

• 46:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's not.

• 46:20Andy Greenwald?

  It is an ongoing television show. And even in his interviews, because I think he's getting a walk, a star in the Hollywood Walk of Fame, so Noah's doing some press, he was saying that he would imagine, which means he knows, because they're just about done writing season three, that they're probably just going to jump to winter, just a couple of months, and not do a massive time jump. So we will be, which probably serves them so they can continue some storylines in a more natural way. That, that's fine. I want to talk Langdon, and I want to talk Alhafimi. What do you want to do first?

• 46:49Chris Ryan?

  Let's see Alhafimi.

• 46:50Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 46:51Chris Ryan?

  Um, this has probably been one of the more hotly debated characters, and it's certainly new additions to the show. The way in which she reveals herself to Robbie at the end of the episode was probably a tag TV. You know, it was like, rather than just be like, I need to talk to you for a second, here's my story. And I have, I had meningitis when I was a kid. I have, I've been having these episodes now a little bit more frequently. She does it by having him come in to give her a second opinion on a case history. And as he's reading the case history midway through, he realizes it's her. And in the cliffhanger of the episode is, is this you, Bron? So Bron Alhafimi is

• 47:33Chris Ryan?

  her name. I thought, um, Sepide Moafi was quite good in that scene. Like, her eyes told you everything you needed to know. And I, I, you know, it is, is among the best cliffhangers of a season of cliffhangers. I can't wait to hear this conversation between them. Did it land for, for you?

• 47:50Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I think I like the show when it. Admits it's a TV show. I don't mind the convention. I would rather, I prefer of the two modes of of extreme storytelling that the show does, I would prefer a dramatically staged cliffhanger to another chorus turns to camera to explain medical inequalities in this country. I also think, and we don't have, we don't, we're gonna find out exactly what's going on with her, because I think the report says that she suffered seizures as a child. And then he says, altered mental status from the infection, and kind of there's some ellipses, and that's when he turns.

• 48:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 48:32Andy Greenwald?

  It would help me, without even knowing what, where this is going, the idea that her sort of like, preternatural calm and control is itself a performance and a choice within her performance, if that makes sense. If the character has something happening within her, or some chaotic aspect of her health that needs to be managed, that the fact that she has from day one presented herself as borderline robotic, that helps me understand the performance choice.

• 49:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 49:08Andy Greenwald?

  Because the, the, the character needs to do that in order to maneuver in the world. That helps.

• 49:13Chris Ryan?

  I think the flip of that would be is if you feel like you're seeing her, and because he is the center of the show, you kind of naturally gravitate to his POV. If you're seeing her through Robbie's POV, really, with the exception of Santos, everybody likes her except for him, and except for Santos or Robbie.

• 49:31Andy Greenwald?

  That's true.

• 49:32Chris Ryan?

  And Santos doesn't like her because she threatened her with a bad time with the records keeping and charting. And Robbie just seems to be like, I came in here looking for a huge fucking showdown with every single person I work, work with today. And like, my replacement can't be good, because then I don't need to be here. And if I'm not here, I know what's waiting for me on the other side of the doors.

• 49:52Andy Greenwald?

  I know where I'm going.

• 49:53Chris Ryan?

  I needed it. He almost needed it to be a disaster today, so that he could be like, I guess I can't leave. So I just, I think that, I hear what you're saying. I, I will be curious too, to see whether or not the diagnosis reveals a choice in performance. But different people on this show seem to have like very different styles of of of doing their parts, you know?

• 50:15Andy Greenwald?

  By the way, I I realized that when I was talking about the things that kind of bummed me, like that that wasn't among them, but there were a number of scenes that felt quite staged in terms of like, the writers room board says we have to get from A to B in this scene. The the scene we're talking about, the Alashimi, like, it's a cliffhanger. It has to have some drama to it. Well done, no problem. The the Robbie and Duke scene, a lot has to come out, executed.

• 50:38Chris Ryan?

  I also, I will say about the Alashimi scene is that I felt like they leapt from, these two are still kind of at each other's throats a little bit, to like,

• 50:48Andy Greenwald?

  I respect you.

• 50:49Chris Ryan?

  Great, great speech, man. Come look at my my diagnosis. Like, they they they skipped, like,

• 50:54Andy Greenwald?

  They had to get there.

• 50:55Chris Ryan?

  A couple of letters to get there, yeah.

• 50:56Andy Greenwald?

  That's the way I felt about the Whittaker Langdon scene. Where where Whittaker, first of all, this entire scene is predicated on a Gilligan's Island reference, that I know Whittaker was brought up on a farm, but.

• 51:07Chris Ryan?

  I made a Gilligan's Island reference on the rerawables last night that fucking died. Like, I like tried to,

• 51:12Andy Greenwald?

  Brave of you to hit this.

• 51:13Chris Ryan?

  Compare Basic Instinct to Gilligan's Island, and it was just like, I honestly thought I was gonna have a heart attack.

• 51:18Andy Greenwald?

  Like, do you remember?

• 51:19Chris Ryan?

  So quiet in the audience.

• 51:20Andy Greenwald?

  Do you remember when we started reading Bill Simmons and he was constantly talking about the white shadow? And we're like, sure. Because that was our, like, that's the line?

• 51:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 51:30Andy Greenwald?

  Every, and then we're like, that's ridiculous. Makes reference to Elf. You know what I mean? But like, I think that line has passed now. And so, Whittaker, I know he grew up on a farm and maybe he had like, limited broadband, but like, I don't think he was force fed Gilligan's Island reruns at four o'clock the way we were when we came home from school. So, that was, that was one thing. But just the explosion happening in that moment, it's the nature of the show that you kind of have to go along with, as much as the the nurses explaining their plight. Whittaker is a complicated character, a good actor, that's another side of the character. He was due for that, here's where it fell. And they did the best they could with it, but it felt a little bit forced and shoehorned.

• 52:13Andy Greenwald?

  And I, that's as good as places any to segue into the Langdon thing. What there was, I don't think, I guess my question is, am I alone in this? Or did you feel major relapse vibes happening in this episode?

• 52:27Chris Ryan?

  I would love to ask the, whether it's Noah or whoever about this. The pits weave is now kind of like a thing where it's like, you think it's gonna be Robbie who needs help, but what if it's Ashimi? You know, and I still think there are even a couple of other people in that, in that department who might become bigger patients, I suppose, than Robbie. Langdon being like, I've tweaked my back. Oh, it's so hard. Like, I'm right over here by the pills. And then like the fake Whitaker being like, what are you doing, man? And he's like, I'm taking Advil. And I also don't know necessarily that like one kind of like,

• 53:11Chris Ryan?

  one in a thousand fix on a guy has fixed Langdon. I don't think the show is that simple to be like, he's, he really can still be a doctor. So everything else is gonna fall into place.

• 53:21Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, it was, it was a lot of, a lot of indicating stuff all happening at the same time, in the same episode. I also, I just, please, everything about the show is so meticulous. They have to mess up Patrick Ball's hair more. This man has not actually been working for 15 hours. That, that takes, that takes me out. I think the most old fashioned TV thing about the show is not that it is a medical procedure.

• 53:48Chris Ryan?

  You never see it surprise me about what's gonna bother you.

• 53:51Andy Greenwald?

  It is, Kaya, Kaya made it, no, Kaya, do you agree with me about this?

• 53:56Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, sure. She made us, she laughed. So I thought I had a fan here. I thought I had some support. Just ruffle, ruffle the man up a little bit.

• 54:05Chris Ryan?

  You're like hour three of a Trump speech, like, you know, that's right. Everybody, Langdon's hair.

• 54:11Andy Greenwald?

  But also hour three of a Trump speech, no one's hair looks as good as Langdon's. You know what I mean?

• 54:16Chris Ryan?

  Um, I, I don't know. I, I guess I was like, the back is such a, a big painkiller trigger. But he was on benzos, not painkillers.

• 54:26Andy Greenwald?

  But I thought it was because of a back thing.

• 54:28Chris Ryan?

  Oh, that's right.

• 54:29Andy Greenwald?

  Do you have any, any theories about Whitaker's missing badge? And how that's gonna come back to haunt us?

• 54:33Chris Ryan?

  I don't know. That's fucked up because like I, I, I really, I wondered whether or not when he was asking about the Advil, whether he was suspicious of Langdon taking his badge. Cause Langdon also was like, retrace your steps, bro. And gaslighting him a little bit about it. I don't, I don't, I hope that's not the case.

• 54:52Andy Greenwald?

  Whoa.

• 54:53Chris Ryan?

  Um, and I wonder if now Whitaker is gonna be like, my badge is on the table here where Langdon was standing.

• 55:01Andy Greenwald?

  And, and my badge is responsible for checking out 16 opioid pills.

• 55:06Chris Ryan?

  I also, you know, like, look, we still have the dangling, what, what's, we haven't gotten a lot of depth into what's going on with Santos, other than the fact that she has this romantic relationship with Garcia that seems to be somewhat one-sided. And that she has scars from cutting and that there is a very pointed moment where she takes like a kind of suture and scalpel kit out of a drawer. You know, I, I don't really know if they would go as far as to be like, not only did this guy relapse, he relapsed using his like coworker's ID card thus like truly torpedoing. And then you start to get into like, they didn't really tell everybody that he did this.

• 55:46Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 55:47Chris Ryan?

  You know, Robbie would then be on the hook for that, I think even more like it, it, it, sometimes I have to remind myself that this is a TV show and not like,

• 55:55Andy Greenwald?

  I, I think.

• 55:56Chris Ryan?

  Bergman and we're just gonna all start crying.

• 55:58Andy Greenwald?

  If you're reading the tea leaves of the season, and this is not meant to be a prediction because they, they very well may end it with something dramatic and surprising.

• 56:06Chris Ryan?

  And if they're coming back sooner, they may cliff it a little bit.

• 56:09Andy Greenwald?

  They could. Um, I think my sense of the season this far into it has been the writers and producers feeling confident, as they should, to experiment with the form that they've only just created and seeing if they can get away with quieting things just when our instinct is that they will be ratcheting up and that the season may end with some hollowed out Jesus Christ, but we gotta do it again tomorrow vibes, less, less, I mean, the first season was an enormous, hideous, violent, traumatic tragedy.

• 56:45Chris Ryan?

  Dana getting punched in the face, like, yeah.

• 56:47Andy Greenwald?

  But they ended with a beer in the park.

• 56:49Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 56:49Andy Greenwald?

  We did it, you know, and I don't know if the season's gonna have that same triumph.

• 56:53Chris Ryan?

  I don't think so.

• 56:54Andy Greenwald?

  But I do think one of the, their goals is to dampen or, or subvert our expectations. And so I think emotionally where it ends up will likely be different. That's not necessarily in a place of dramatic violence coming home to roost with one of our characters.

• 57:09Chris Ryan?

  We'll have, we'll have our finale pick coverage for next Thursday and hopefully we'll have, I would love to have Noah back on the pod.

• 57:15Andy Greenwald?

  Do we have two more?

• 57:16Chris Ryan?

  Nope.

• 57:18Andy Greenwald?

  Next week's the finale?

• 57:19Chris Ryan?

  Yep, 9pm, April 16th.

• 57:23Andy Greenwald?

  We sure about that? Marisa Bella, I heard, was auditioning.

• 57:26Chris Ryan?

  It's 15 episodes a season, right? Do you want to talk briefly about Top Chef?

• 57:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, where are you at with it?

• 57:31Chris Ryan?

  I guess I was wrong.

• 57:34Chris Ryan?

  And spoiler for this week's Top Chef, but I was like, taking out a third mortgage and putting it on Rhoda. And I lost it all.

• 57:43Andy Greenwald?

  Sweet Icarus. She flew too close to the sun.

• 57:46Chris Ryan?

  An interesting case of, if, I, now I've watched this episode a couple of days ago, so forgive me if I get any details wrong, but I don't feel like she took, and nor should she have maybe with the kids, quickfire, the kids judging the quickfire. I felt like she was like, I'm just gonna make like a lamb, like shepherd's pie and not really, I've seen this happen before where somebody is like, this is a stupid quickfire.

• 58:11Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 58:12Chris Ryan?

  And then goes into the final round and is like, I'm still, I'm still him. And loses. I do not remember a two-time elimination winner.

• 58:23Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 58:24Chris Ryan?

  Going out of the fucking show within two weeks after that.

• 58:27Andy Greenwald?

  It's, it's a shocking fall, and I think generally when, because frontrunners have fallen with distressing regularity, and the best example of that being Kristen came back from Last Chance Kitchen to win her season, and no one's questioning her bona fides. I think, though, what was remarkable about Rhoda was that usually frontrunners fall for, you know, like a head scratching cookery error or a failure with ambition and vision and not being able to execute. I rarely see someone just absolutely fuck up both.

• 59:07Andy Greenwald?

  Like that was, that was, and you could tell, again, I think, I think they're doing some good storytelling stuff for the edits that like, Tom was like, this is ridiculous, that she didn't know how to cook a fish or told us it was roasted or whatever, separate and apart from the squidding.

• 59:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:21Andy Greenwald?

  Stuff. Um, how did you feel about the, um, what's her name is injured? And so they're like, we're going to give you a chance to leave.

• 59:31Chris Ryan?

  I'm glad you asked me this because I, I have an opinion, which is, I don't think she's gaining any kind of unfair advantage by skipping the quick fires. But, um, something similar, not entirely similar, but something kind of like this happened on Survivor over the last couple of weeks, which is essentially two guys who were in something of an alliance together and thus targets of another group of people. One of them had a foot injury and there was some speculation like, I wonder if this guy's going to have to take himself out of the game soon. So maybe we should get this other dude and then let medicine take this guy out and we get two for the price of one, basically. Jen has kind of just been in the middle for me. I can't really make a huge.

• 1:00:14Andy Greenwald?

  Also, she made a dip for elimination.

• 1:00:16Chris Ryan?

  I mean, it looked like her focaccia was really nice, you know, and everything, but I would say that if she, now she's on basically like, if you miss another quick fire.

• 1:00:25Andy Greenwald?

  You can't sit out. It's not optional.

• 1:00:26Chris Ryan?

  Right. I don't, I would love to know what the pre-existing rule is, like whether that's the first time this has happened, that someone is like, I'm taking a medical on quick fires, but we'll still cook eliminations. And it kind of speaks to the like flaw of decoupling the two halves of the show.

• 1:00:44Andy Greenwald?

  It's beautifully expressed. I would say that the issue, the conversation about load management is unavoidable at this point. And I'm not a fan. I think.

• 1:00:53Chris Ryan?

  Not a fan of load management or her getting to continue to cook if she can't do the show?

• 1:00:57Andy Greenwald?

  As a fan of the Philadelphia 76ers, I definitely have an opinion about players choosing when to play during the course of the season.

• 1:01:04Chris Ryan?

  It turns out Dr. Daryl was right and he needed his fucking appendix out. And like, that's why it was weird that he was sick for two weeks.

• 1:01:10Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, yeah, I agree, but.

• 1:01:12Chris Ryan?

  I'm just saying Sixers wise.

• 1:01:13Andy Greenwald?

  Because that's the only time him beat the season has taken himself out or been weird about when he's playing.

• 1:01:20Andy Greenwald?

  I think, again, back, this is just off, off the dome, but I believe that there have been people who have injured themselves in quick fires and then had to be attended to and not completed it. But I've never seen anyone tap out twice and then show up. Steroided up for the, by the way, where's the drug test, frankly, or can't they all get steroids?

• 1:01:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:40Andy Greenwald?

  I would really cook a lot better if I just had a little.

• 1:01:42Chris Ryan?

  But if I was Rhoda, I might, I might feel away.

• 1:01:45Andy Greenwald?

  For sure.

• 1:01:46Chris Ryan?

  I mean, I know everybody is like, we're, we're, we're all in this together and Justin and her seem like a great couple and. I, I would say that my opinion of the chefs as people has like slowly gone up. And my opinion of them as chefs has dipped a little bit from where it was in the beginning of the season.

• 1:02:02Andy Greenwald?

  I have two other takes for you. One, the Wildwater Rafting Park looks sick as hell and I think you should go when you're in Denver this weekend.

• 1:02:10Chris Ryan?

  Do you, it's, it's in North Carolina.

• 1:02:14Andy Greenwald?

  Why did I think, oh, that's right. Sorry. Can we, can we?

• 1:02:16Chris Ryan?

  No, we can't, we can't. I love that. No. And I gotta tell you.

• 1:02:21Andy Greenwald?

  Why did I think it was in Denver?

• 1:02:22Chris Ryan?

  I just think that all those things are piss tunnels and, and like to me, that is just like a giant floating public restroom. Now, I love a slide. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:02:35Andy Greenwald?

  Because you're just getting the slow trickle behind you? What do you mean? I, that's okay?

• 1:02:42Andy Greenwald?

  You're either splashing out or you're not, buddy.

• 1:02:44Chris Ryan?

  I, I just, I think it's a more of like a quick engage, but when it's like the lazy river, it's the lazy river of piss. Guys are slamming White Claws on edibles. They're just letting it happen.

• 1:02:57Andy Greenwald?

  Again, I feel.

• 1:02:58Chris Ryan?

  Caves everywhere.

• 1:03:00Andy Greenwald?

  This is not, maybe it's just branding. This wasn't like Dorney Park's Wild Water Kingdom. This is presented as like the national

• 1:03:09Chris Ryan?

  An extension of, but I think that's, I think that that is a manmade monument to wildlife, but is still like, I bet that water smells bad.

• 1:03:19Andy Greenwald?

  Wow. This is, this is the strongest take you've had this entire episode. You're laid in wait while I hung myself on shows you didn't even deign to watch. And yet, the entire water park industry just got bodied.

• 1:03:32Chris Ryan?

  I think about water parks a lot because one of the single greatest moments of my life was at Wildwood. They have a ride that I don't think is there.

• 1:03:41Andy Greenwald?

  Wild Water Kingdom in Pennsylvania or Wildwood, New Jersey?

• 1:03:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:45Andy Greenwald?

  Lot of wilds in our childhood.

• 1:03:46Chris Ryan?

  There was basically, you would walk up a ladder, I think, or steps, but it felt like a ladder forever. You would ride down a relatively wide chute that then cut off in midair and you were ejected out over a very deep pool. And that moment of coming out of the fucking chute, it was incredible. That's the best feeling I've ever had in my life, bar like three or four other things. But then everything else about water parks, I think are pretty disgusting.

• 1:04:17Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, I'm sorry to inform you that the woke nanny state shut that park down quite some time ago. That level of fun slash risk is no longer allowed due to municipal.

• 1:04:34Chris Ryan?

  I mean, we got, we had way more injuries back then, but we had better times.

• 1:04:38Andy Greenwald?

  Right? Well, we weren't load managing. You know what I mean?

• 1:04:40Chris Ryan?

  But you know, like you don't really see kids with like arm casts anymore. Cause like people watch them and they're like, hey, don't climb that tree.

• 1:04:49Andy Greenwald?

  You know, they like advances in medicine perhaps are contributing here.

• 1:04:53Chris Ryan?

  Have you guys seen a kid with a cast recently? No. Their silence is deafening.

• 1:04:59Andy Greenwald?

  This is all child free, this entire room.

• 1:05:01Speaker 04

  I don't see a lot of children in general, I'd say.

• 1:05:03Andy Greenwald?

  This is a good segue, actually, to my other take about this episode.

• 1:05:06Chris Ryan?

  I went up to a kid, he's like, have you ever broken your arm?

• 1:05:08Andy Greenwald?

  Would you like to? You know who you sound like right now?

• 1:05:12Chris Ryan?

  Who?

• 1:05:12Andy Greenwald?

  My number one enemy on the show, Seeker.

• 1:05:16Chris Ryan?

  Oh, and he was just like, I like practicing having babies.

• 1:05:19Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, and he's just like, ha, ha, ha, fuck children in front of three children. Let me just say something, and you're not like this, you're, you're a fun uncle, you're a lovely person. That attitude sucks. That's stupid and you look lame. Like, it's okay if you don't want children, but it's not cool to be like, look at these little people.

• 1:05:39Chris Ryan?

  I wanted children, but I was rendered infertile by Tony.

• 1:05:50Andy Greenwald?

  That time you Heisman into the warm New Jersey air. That brief second, that brief second, when, when the rivers.

• 1:06:00Chris Ryan?

  Forgive me my unborn son. I must go for glory.

• 1:06:04Andy Greenwald?

  As the rivulets of other people's urine, wicked off of your airborne body. You're like, it's never getting better than this unless I can tell. Chris Jr.

• 1:06:17Chris Ryan?

  Like, I'll drink water while he's doing this.

• 1:06:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, dog.

• 1:06:22Andy Greenwald?

  Wanted to feel alive again.

• 1:06:23Chris Ryan?

  Who's to say, who's to say I didn't make the right choice, you know?

• 1:06:27Andy Greenwald?

  I think the listeners of this podcast feel like you made the right choice.

• 1:06:29Chris Ryan?

  But see, you're, you gotta, you gotta like, you're mic'd up, brother, you, you know, like, when you're back at the loft in, in North Carolina. You can, you can be like, ugh, kids, not my fave, but don't, don't like shit talk three lovely children.

• 1:06:44Andy Greenwald?

  Very camera ready. They are, that is a very, very challenging.

• 1:06:48Chris Ryan?

  Ainsley Wolfie and.

• 1:06:50Andy Greenwald?

  These are their names?

• 1:06:51Chris Ryan?

  Kate something, Mary Kate.

• 1:06:53Andy Greenwald?

  Can I be, can I be real with you for a second? None of them have ever broken a bone. Those kids are helicoptered. I think maybe you're on to something. That, I just mean like, that is, uh, historically, infamously, the hardest type of panel for these people to cook for. Because, and, and they always overthink it. And wrote it being like, I will tell these children that, um, you know, the equivalent of being like Bambi is in this pot as opposed to just being like, it's meat. Enjoy meat and potatoes. Whereas the person who won made ice cream. Like that's.

• 1:07:27Chris Ryan?

  That was in the, his brother made pepperoni pizza. That was crazy. Or sausage pizza.

• 1:07:31Andy Greenwald?

  That was smart.

• 1:07:32Chris Ryan?

  Um, let's wrap it up here because we do have another podcast to record right now.

• 1:07:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. And also I know it's getting clipped now, so we can just wrap it up.

• 1:07:40Chris Ryan?

  Uh, thanks to Kai, Kai and Sarah, and we will be back on Sunday night to discuss the season three premiere of Euphoria.