Do DINKs Have More Fun (and Money)?

💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! Carefree (and kid-free) travel isn’t the only reason DINKs are living their best life. In this episode, Rachel and George get real about the cost of kids and how to know if you’re ready. Next Steps: 🎥 Watch our video Why Fewer People Are Having Kids Today. 📱Submit a Guilty As Charged question for Rachel and George! Send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it. Connect With Our Sponsor: 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Today’s Happy Hour Special: 🍸 Isn’t She Lovely? Recipe: Imbibe 1 1/2 ounces vodka 3/4 ounce fresh grapefruit juice 1/2 ounce lemon juice 1/2 ounce elderflower liqueur 1/2 ounce blanc vermouth 1/4 simple syrup 1 ounce club soda Instructions: Combine all the ingredients except the club soda in a shaker with ice. Shake until chilled, then strain into a collins glass over fresh ice. Top with club soda, and enjoy! Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Rachel Cruze?

  Hey guys, I'm Rachel Cruz.

• 0:06George Kamel?

  I'm George Kamel.

• 0:07Rachel Cruze?

  And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. Cheers, George.

• 0:11George Kamel?

  Cheers.

• 0:15Rachel Cruze?

  Very refreshing.

• 0:16George Kamel?

  That's a delight.

• 0:17Rachel Cruze?

  I mean, not mad at all.

• 0:20George Kamel?

  It'd be hard to be mad at that.

• 0:22Rachel Cruze?

  I don't get mad at what.

• 0:23George Kamel?

  It's inoffensive.

• 0:24Rachel Cruze?

  That does not make me mad. All right. This is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. So everything from pop culture, current events, and money.

• 0:33George Kamel?

  And today, we're talking about dinks. If you know, you know. And if you don't, we'll tell you. That's the point of this podcast.

• 0:39Rachel Cruze?

  Before we talk about dinks, shall we talk about drinks? I did it in a question. Did you see that?

• 0:45George Kamel?

  That was good.

• 0:46Rachel Cruze?

  I went up at the end, should we talk about drinks?

• 0:50George Kamel?

  We are sipping on "An Isn't She Lovely?", which I believe is named after producer Kelly Gaynor.

• 0:58George Kamel?

  That's the etymology. It's where it came from. I don't make this up.

• 1:02Rachel Cruze?

  Kelly.

• 1:02George Kamel?

  And it's a lovely drink so far. So stick around till the end of the episode. We're gonna give you our rating, reveal the cost per glass, and as always, the recipes in the show notes if you want to skip ahead.

• 1:11Rachel Cruze?

  Yep. All right, George, have you seen the internet trend, dinks? But like, I know that term has been around, which is, we'll just spoiler alert, should we?

• 1:20George Kamel?

  Sure. I was gonna wait till the very end. No, I'm just kidding. Just tell them.

• 1:23Rachel Cruze?

  Dual income, no kids. But there's like a trends on Instagram where they're like, "We're dinks. Of course we sleep eight hours a night on a Tempur-Pedic Nights mattress."

• 1:33George Kamel?

  Of course we take three-week vacations to Europe.

• 1:35Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, we're dinks, right? So it's like this like freedom living, right? Before kids, dual income, no kids.

• 1:42George Kamel?

  Hit me with some stats.

• 1:43Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, so in 2021, from Pew Research Center, they found that 44% of people from ages 18 to 49, who are currently without kids, say that they are not likely to ever have children.

• 1:58George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 1:58Rachel Cruze?

  Isn't that interesting? 44%.

• 2:00George Kamel?

  That's a big range. 18 to 49, which is like adults who aren't retired. Half of them basically said, "Yeah, probably not gonna happen."

• 2:07Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and 44%, that's high. It's close to half.

• 2:10George Kamel?

  Wow, well, even if you look back a hundred years ago, having kids was more of a financial necessity than a choice. Like, you needed the village. Now that child labor laws exist, you know, you can't pull your 14 kids out of grade school to have them be unpaid labor on the family farm for harvest.

• 2:24Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 2:25George Kamel?

  Different times we live in, Rachel.

• 2:26Rachel Cruze?

  There are some legitimate reasons, though, why people, you know, maybe don't want kids of their choosing, and then sometimes it's not of their choosing, right?

• 2:35George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 2:35Rachel Cruze?

  The idea of having children.

• 2:38George Kamel?

  Everyone's got their reasons.

• 2:39Rachel Cruze?

  For sure, yeah. And I mean, first and foremost, why people aren't, when you look at infertility.

• 2:45George Kamel?

  We should call that out at the very top here, because a lot of people want kids.

• 2:49Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 2:49George Kamel?

  They're unable to have kids of their own.

• 2:51Rachel Cruze?

  And that's growing at a rapid rate as well, right? So that's a whole conversation going on, but that's one reason. Another is career. Some people just, you know, they want to dedicate their time and their energy towards their career.

• 3:03George Kamel?

  Yeah, it's hard to be a parent and work 60 hours a week and do all these, you know, grow your career or get further education. All that's just harder when you're a parent.

• 3:12Rachel Cruze?

  Absolutely.

• 3:14George Kamel?

  Increased access to travel. This one's interesting. The ability to travel has highlighted alternative cultures, ways of living that are communal but less nuclear, family-focused. And travel's tougher with kids. So if you want to go like, "I'm gonna live in Costa Rica for half the year", that's just tougher to do, pulling kids around and pulling them out of school and all that stuff.

• 3:31Rachel Cruze?

  For sure. And I do think the ability to travel is so much easier today than it was, you think, back in like the 80s or the 70s, right? I'm like, you could, like, there's apps and deals and like, you can get to places, be informed so much faster, right? So even that, the travel opportunity, I feel like it's wider today.

• 3:48George Kamel?

  Even to do a two-week trip, you're like, "I gotta find a sitter for two weeks", and if you don't have family that you trust or that's local, that's difficult.

• 3:53Rachel Cruze?

  It's hard to do, for sure. And also with medicine, George, I mean, all the advancements, you know, health-wise, people are able to have kids later in life and even space them out if they choose to, right? So even the timeline on which you have children. Yep, there's gonna be some planning there.

• 4:08George Kamel?

  Another one that's interesting is just individualism. As a society, we've become more self-sustaining and maybe self-centered. I'm not saying that you're selfish if you don't have kids, but there's a piece of it where you don't have to reproduce. To have a life that feels full and social and entertaining. You can just pay for things, maybe. But I would argue that.

• 4:26Rachel Cruze?

  Have money.

• 4:27George Kamel?

  I feel like I have a purpose I didn't know existed now as a father. You know what I mean? It's not to say you don't have purpose, you don't have kids. I just feel like there's this, wow, there's a responsibility of like, I had get to raise this human up. To hopefully be a great adult.

• 4:41Rachel Cruze?

  There's a whole other part of, yeah, life that opens up, yes.

• 4:44George Kamel?

  But some people just go, nah, I'm good.

• 4:46Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 4:47George Kamel?

  And that's fine.

• 4:47Rachel Cruze?

  They do. Uh, also a chaotic world. You know, we see the news, we see what's happening. I mean, it's just.

• 4:54George Kamel?

  This one I really have empathy for. I get it.

• 4:55Rachel Cruze?

  I mean, some people are like, I don't want to bring my kids in to, I don't want to bring kids into this world. And, you know, for some people, like, it's going, it's getting worse and worse and worse. And why bring kids in? That's a reason.

• 5:07George Kamel?

  It's a very sad pessimistic outlook, but I get it if you just look at headlines and go, listen, the world's going crazy and I don't want my kid in this environment and I'm gonna have to deal with this. And I'm responsible for what happens to them. So I get that part.

• 5:21Rachel Cruze?

  For sure.

• 5:21George Kamel?

  Another one is equal opportunity. The ability for women to have their own bank accounts and work the same jobs. That's only a few decades old. So I think that level of autonomy, uh, you know, women can earn money more independently. They're able to take a step back and think about what kind of life and career do I want? And that doesn't always involve kids. Whereas back in the day, it was more traditional roles and you have kids, you take care of the family.

• 5:42Rachel Cruze?

  That's what you do. Yep, for sure.

• 5:43George Kamel?

  Times have changed.

• 5:44Rachel Cruze?

  Um, also the, the generational baggage. Pack it up and let's, let's unpack it, if you will, you know what I mean?

• 5:52George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 5:52Rachel Cruze?

  No, but really, all this self-help, people are, have become more self-aware, seeking, you know, therapy and all of this. And, and I think the more you realize, oh, my gosh, I don't know if I, you know, want to bring kids into this like generational mess of a family even, right? Like, there's the world and then the family dynamic. But there's been a lot of pain and trauma. And some people are like, I don't, I don't want to bring kids into that.

• 6:13George Kamel?

  I don't want to repeat the cycle. I don't want to pass on this DNA. And I think we believe that you can change your family tree.

• 6:20Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. Oh, and then spiritually as well. Yeah, morally, yeah, for sure. Uh, there's also adoption. So the need for adoption, foster care, all of that. I think, again, as we get more information into the world, even parts like this of life, you are exposed to and realize, oh, my gosh, real numbers, real data, seeing and experiencing, you know, children that need a home. And so, yeah, I think people choose that avenue. I actually had a lady on my show, George Marcy, and they chose, her and her husband, not to have kids of their own. She didn't even know if she could or not. She was like, regardless of what my body can do, we're choosing to foster to adopt. It's like what they went in.

• 6:56George Kamel?

  That's beautiful.

• 6:56Rachel Cruze?

  So some people are doing that, yeah.

• 6:58George Kamel?

  And that's expensive, which might mean we're going to wait later in life until we have our finances in order, grow our careers.

• 7:04Rachel Cruze?

  Foster to adopt, though, on average, is $5,000. It's the cheapest avenue.

• 7:07George Kamel?

  I didn't know that.

• 7:08Rachel Cruze?

  Out of domestic adoption and international, yeah.

• 7:10George Kamel?

  Wow, okay.

• 7:12Rachel Cruze?

  We talked about that.

• 7:13George Kamel?

  And last but not least, and the main thing we're talking about today, money. That is one of the biggest reasons it's expensive to have kids, whether natural, IVF adoption, raising them to age 18, which is why our DINK friends out there are leaning into the season, and they're making the most of it, making TikToks.

• 7:32Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 7:32George Kamel?

  While we're out here being parents.

• 7:33Rachel Cruze?

  Would y'all say this is, I think infertility is a big one for sure, why people aren't having kids, aren't able to, but money, I think money is like top three on the list. I feel like when I hear people say, we don't want kids, it's because they're expensive. I feel like that's like, it's a, that's a, that's a big one. So, yeah, I would see career, infertility, money.

• 7:53George Kamel?

  I think just the general.

• 7:54Rachel Cruze?

  The ones that I hear my, like, I hear people talk about.

• 7:55George Kamel?

  Responsibility, I think, is, is not exciting for a lot of people.

• 7:59Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 7:59George Kamel?

  Of another.

• 8:00Rachel Cruze?

  It's such a sacrifice.

• 8:01George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 8:01Rachel Cruze?

  Uh huh, for sure.

• 8:03George Kamel?

  I mean, it, it takes a lot of physical, emotional, mental energy.

• 8:07Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, for sure.

• 8:08George Kamel?

  Especially in those first few years, and then, I don't know, beyond that, but from what I've heard, it can get crazy.

• 8:13Rachel Cruze?

  Gets crazier and crazier.

• 8:14George Kamel?

  How old are your kids now?

• 8:16Rachel Cruze?

  Nine, seven, four.

• 8:18George Kamel?

  And you feel like this is a great season for you guys?

• 8:20Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, this is the most fun we've had.

• 8:22George Kamel?

  Is it less chaotic or just chaotic but fun?

• 8:24Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, different chaos, but they're fun. They're like, you can talk to them and hang out and.

• 8:29George Kamel?

  I'm looking forward to that.

• 8:30Rachel Cruze?

  Not as much Charles, he's still four, like, he's still little. Uh, but Amelia, like when they hit that like sweet age.

• 8:36George Kamel?

  Amelia feels like a, like a tiny adult. She feels very mature.

• 8:40Rachel Cruze?

  She is, just an old soul.

• 8:40George Kamel?

  I could just talk to her right now as an adult.

• 8:42Rachel Cruze?

  She's so sweet. I know. They all are so great, but, but that's a sweet age because I still like, she wants to like, she still like holds my hands when we're walking. Like she's still like wants to be with me, but yet she can like make scrambled eggs and get herself dressed. Like she can like do things.

• 8:55George Kamel?

  Wow, scrambled. That's more than most adults can do.

• 8:57Rachel Cruze?

  Uh, I taught my kids scrambled eggs and pancakes.

• 9:00George Kamel?

  That's all you need, honestly.

• 9:01Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I don't know what else you need.

• 9:02George Kamel?

  Like it's not, you're not gonna thrive in life, but you can survive.

• 9:05Rachel Cruze?

  Pretty good. You got protein and a little, and a little.

• 9:07George Kamel?

  That's great.

• 9:08Rachel Cruze?

  Pancake.

• 9:09George Kamel?

  And best of all, you don't have to do it.

• 9:11Rachel Cruze?

  That's right. That's, that's the goal.

• 9:12George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 9:13Rachel Cruze?

  Start to get lazier and lazier if you can.

• 9:15George Kamel?

  So I recently did an episode on my YouTube channel about this very topic and the overwhelming response from people was the financial margin. That's required to have and raise a kid. And one stat we found was that on average, it takes $310,000 to raise a child to age 18. So over 18 years.

• 9:31Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, wow.

• 9:32George Kamel?

  Divide that out. And that breaks down to about 17,000 a year or $1,400 per month if, if you distribute evenly. Which as you know, some seasons are more expensive than others, certain ages. But yeah, I mean, in daycare, that could be 1,400 bucks a month without food and clothes.

• 9:46Rachel Cruze?

  I mean, even from the beginning, when you find out that you're expecting, it's like, okay, doctors' appointments and co-pays and the ultrasound bill and hospital bills when you have the baby. And then you go into diapers, bottles, baby gear, formula, uh, insurance premiums continue to go up. The more, you know, kids you have, the more people on your plan. Then you talk about, yeah, daycare. You talk about school tuition, if you're doing a private school. Um, I mean, all of that comes into play and then.

• 10:15George Kamel?

  Strollers?

• 10:16Rachel Cruze?

  When you're traveling, yeah, strollers.

• 10:18George Kamel?

  The travel stroller?

• 10:19Rachel Cruze?

  You gotta get a bigger car.

• 10:21George Kamel?

  The car seat?

• 10:21Rachel Cruze?

  You got three kids, you gotta get, gotta get a bigger car, gotta get a minivan.

• 10:25George Kamel?

  Don't, hey, don't put that on you, Ricky Bobby.

• 10:27Rachel Cruze?

  Did y'all ever have a minivan?

• 10:29George Kamel?

  We have one now. We, yeah.

• 10:31Rachel Cruze?

  Gosh, I knew I liked you.

• 10:33George Kamel?

  Eventually, we all succumb to the minivan. And then we all brag about the minivan. Right?

• 10:38Rachel Cruze?

  And then we all get out, and then we'll get out of it.

• 10:40George Kamel?

  All right, moving on.

• 10:40Rachel Cruze?

  Anyway, it's just very expensive. So, uh, so giving birth on aver-

• 10:44George Kamel?

  Let's talk about giving birth.

• 10:45Rachel Cruze?

  On average, costs eighteen thousand, eight hundred and sixty-five dollars without health insurance. And that includes the pregnancy, delivery, postpartum care.

• 10:53George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 10:53Rachel Cruze?

  Daycare for one week, on average, three hundred and twenty-one dollars.

• 10:58George Kamel?

  That checks out.

• 10:59Rachel Cruze?

  Sixteen thousand a year. It's a lot going, it's a lot.

• 11:02George Kamel?

  So, to be fair, when we're like, "Just have kids, it's gonna be easy and fun." There is a financial requirement. And here's the deal. We know that even if you're not financially ready, you figure it out, you make sacrifices, and you make it work.

• 11:15Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and let me just say this too. There is, I mean, besides, besides a couple of these things, but overall, there is a spectrum, right? Even the stroller, we joke about it. They'll be fine in a plastic umbrella stroller. That's thirty dollars from Walmart, right? Like, they're gonna, like, there's a spectrum on all this stuff of what you can purchase and buy. You can make it as expensive as you want, right? To a degree, some of these categories don't change. But some of them, we can, we can be okay, right?

• 11:42George Kamel?

  Yeah, but I think we have way more information than our parents did, and that's caused us to make very different decisions. So, my wife is, I would say, medium crunchy.

• 11:50Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:51George Kamel?

  Like, she gets the organic, like, goat toddler formula instead of the whatever-

• 11:55Rachel Cruze?

  That sounds pretty crunchy.

• 11:56George Kamel?

  You know, so she's, she's up there. And so, it costs more for all of the baby stuff.

• 12:00Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, yes.

• 12:00George Kamel?

  Because she wants higher quality foods and items.

• 12:03Rachel Cruze?

  I know, yeah.

• 12:03George Kamel?

  And it's not a judgment call of like, "Well, everyone should do this." It's just what we do for our family, and we build it into the budget.

• 12:09Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, but to your point, it's more expensive, right?

• 12:12George Kamel?

  It is very expensive.

• 12:14Rachel Cruze?

  All right, so we've been on both sides of the coin. Uh, so I thought it'd be fun to do a little pro and con list, you know? Have a little challenge in here, you know, love a good game.

• 12:22George Kamel?

  She loves a competition.

• 12:23Rachel Cruze?

  Love a good challenge.

• 12:24George Kamel?

  Only if she wins.

• 12:26Rachel Cruze?

  So, it'll be good, I think it's gonna be fun.

• 12:27George Kamel?

  Okay, so we're gonna take turns going through some questions, talking about the cost and reality of having kids. Some are serious, some are fun, and all will be answered in full transparency.

• 12:40Rachel Cruze?

  Well done.

• 12:41George Kamel?

  After your drinks dinks joke, I had to, I had to have one.

• 12:44Rachel Cruze?

  That was good, that was good.

• 12:45George Kamel?

  All right, let's get to the questions. How did you and your spouse know you were ready to have kids?

• 12:52George Kamel?

  Was there a BuzzFeed quiz you took?

• 12:56George Kamel?

  Why are you like, "That's how we did it."

• 13:00Rachel Cruze?

  I did not want kids for a while. I was like, Winston would have had them a year into marriage.

• 13:06George Kamel?

  Wow. He was just ready to be a dad?

• 13:07Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yeah, for sure. He was like, yeah, I'm great when you are. And I was the classic, this is so Rachel, but I didn't want them. I was like, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. And then one of our friends had a baby and I went to the hospital.

• 13:20George Kamel?

  Baby fever.

• 13:20Rachel Cruze?

  Nick and Dana Island, never forget them. Went in, saw the baby and I last we got into the elevator and I said, I think I want to have kids.

• 13:29George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 13:29Rachel Cruze?

  I'm ready for a baby.

• 13:31George Kamel?

  Now, was it a cute, must have been a cute baby to inspire that level?

• 13:35Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know what it was. It was one of those classics. I'd seen other babies up until that point.

• 13:38George Kamel?

  I know you've done this. When you see a friend's baby and you can't say, oh, how cute. What do you say?

• 13:45Rachel Cruze?

  They're so precious.

• 13:47George Kamel?

  They're precious in God's eyes.

• 13:49Rachel Cruze?

  No, you can't say that.

• 13:52George Kamel?

  That is a little bit too.

• 13:53Rachel Cruze?

  That's too far.

• 13:54George Kamel?

  Very specific.

• 13:54Rachel Cruze?

  Actually, I say precious a lot. So just because if I call your baby precious, that doesn't mean I think they're ugly.

• 13:59George Kamel?

  But when you saw my baby.

• 14:01Rachel Cruze?

  Mia was super cute. Super cute, I know.

• 14:04George Kamel?

  Gorgeous, beautiful.

• 14:06Rachel Cruze?

  I know, yeah, beautiful, beautiful baby. Yes, that was us. It was me, it was just a, literally a flip of the switch. I was ready. Mm-hmm, five years later, I'm ready. How about you?

• 14:14George Kamel?

  I think we just ran out of other things to do, like goals. You know what I mean? It's like, all right, got a dog, got another dog, got a house. All right, now what? You know what I mean?

• 14:25Rachel Cruze?

  What's the next step naturally?

• 14:26George Kamel?

  So I think once you just run out of entertainment, you go, all right, let's let the baby entertain us.

• 14:31Rachel Cruze?

  Have some kids.

• 14:31George Kamel?

  So I think that's what happened. But also Whitney's age, she was starting to go, hey, listen, I'm in my early 30s. You know, I don't want to wait too much longer to start because what if I want three kids and we want to space them out? So there is a bit of kind of family planning you got to do there.

• 14:44Rachel Cruze?

  For sure, you got to think about it.

• 14:45George Kamel?

  And so it felt like, game on.

• 14:47Rachel Cruze?

  There you go.

• 14:48George Kamel?

  After dealing with two French Bulldogs and wiping their butts, it's like, what's another butt? What is one more butt?

• 14:54Rachel Cruze?

  I still can't, I just can't believe y'all do that. I can't, I just can't.

• 14:58George Kamel?

  Would you not do it for your daughter?

• 15:00Rachel Cruze?

  Dog, my baby! Yes, I meant your dog.

• 15:04George Kamel?

  There's not much difference with a dog. My daughter doesn't sleep in the bed with us, my dogs do. That's a level of intimacy that very few know.

• 15:13Rachel Cruze?

  That is, that is true.

• 15:14George Kamel?

  Sometimes I hold her paw at night. It's very comforting.

• 15:21George Kamel?

  Where's John Deloney when you need to be psychoanalyzed?

• 15:25Rachel Cruze?

  Holding the dog paw is.

• 15:27George Kamel?

  That's real life. Okay, next question.

• 15:28Rachel Cruze?

  Uh, what's one surprising cost of having kids that you didn't expect?

• 15:32George Kamel?

  Oh, that's a good one. I will say the formula, I didn't realize, especially the type that we get, how expensive it is and how much they go through.

• 15:43Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 15:44George Kamel?

  As far as cost goes, because my wife stays home now, so we don't have daycare, but we also lost her income.

• 15:51Rachel Cruze?

  There you go.

• 15:51George Kamel?

  So that's a, that's a cost.

• 15:53Rachel Cruze?

  Here and here, yep.

• 15:54George Kamel?

  Totally worth it. How about you?

• 15:55Rachel Cruze?

  Um, I would say baby-wise, it was the diapers. I remember, um, Winston going out to get diapers, like, I don't know, the first week or something. I was like, just get that little pack and then we'll, we'll go out this weekend and get more. Go through a pack in like a day. I mean, it's crazy. So I remember thinking, wait, what? Oh my gosh. And you gotta buy a big box? And that's expen- I mean, they're expensive, so. And I didn't get like the crap, I mean, I just got Pampers. So it wasn't even like a-

• 16:21George Kamel?

  Are they nicer? I thought that was the good name brand.

• 16:24Rachel Cruze?

  No, I think there's like the organic, the honest brand. I mean, there's like-

• 16:27George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 16:28Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, something like the organic diapers, which we didn't do.

• 16:31George Kamel?

  It's disposable underwear, guys. Let's remember that. It's what we're talking about here.

• 16:35Rachel Cruze?

  Did you do, did you wanna do, did she wanna do cloth diapers at all?

• 16:38George Kamel?

  No. I wouldn't have let that. Now, I get it, like, some people are made for that.

• 16:42Rachel Cruze?

  Cause they're money saver. I bet there's some people out there.

• 16:44George Kamel?

  I don't think I could, I don't have the stomach for it.

• 16:47Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 16:48George Kamel?

  I mean, we had a snake in our garage the other day and I couldn't even look at it in the face. I couldn't look at it. I said, everyone else deal with it. I'm gonna go in, I'll be ready to hit 911.

• 16:57Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 16:57George Kamel?

  When the time is right.

• 16:58Rachel Cruze?

  So clean, clean in a diaper.

• 16:59George Kamel?

  Weak stomach, not gonna be cleaning out.

• 17:01Rachel Cruze?

  Has anything happened so far with Mia that's made you like be sick?

• 17:05George Kamel?

  Oh, like throw up, blowouts, all that stuff.

• 17:09Rachel Cruze?

  Weak stomach?

• 17:09George Kamel?

  Um, no, I feel like I've, I've been, I've held strong.

• 17:12Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 17:12George Kamel?

  I did it for Whitney. You know, she needs strength.

• 17:15Rachel Cruze?

  You're so strong.

• 17:16George Kamel?

  I exude strength in our marriage.

• 17:20Rachel Cruze?

  Like I didn't rethink strength.

• 17:21George Kamel?

  But sometimes I will walk in that nursery and go, nope. Let's turn on a fan. I'll be back in three.

• 17:28George Kamel?

  It's so aggressive.

• 17:29Rachel Cruze?

  Sometimes it's a lot. Sometimes it's a lot. Um, George, here's a little quiz for you.

• 17:34George Kamel?

  Okay.

• 17:34Rachel Cruze?

  Name three ways to save on childcare off the top of your head.

• 17:37George Kamel?

  Oh, gosh. Um, have amazing family that watch your kids for you.

• 17:43Rachel Cruze?

  That would be nice.

• 17:43George Kamel?

  That's a life hack.

• 17:44Rachel Cruze?

  That would be nice.

• 17:45George Kamel?

  Does this count like daycare and babysitting?

• 17:47Rachel Cruze?

  Uh, yeah, all the above.

• 17:48George Kamel?

  I've heard of this, the barter system. So it's like, Rachel, I'll watch your kids for a night. You guys go out on a date night. Next time you watch our kids.

• 17:55Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 17:56George Kamel?

  And that way you sort of can avoid the high cost of babysitting.

• 17:58Rachel Cruze?

  And I know some moms that work part-time.

• 18:00George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 18:01Rachel Cruze?

  Like even setting up your schedules, which takes some planning for sure, but man, so much cheaper. A nanny share is great, too. We have some, uh, someone at the office, yes, that, um, uses this where there's like three or four kids in it. Uh, and you split the cost and it's so much more affordable.

• 18:16George Kamel?

  Yep.

• 18:17Rachel Cruze?

  Um, also the stay-at-home parent, just like what Whitney did.

• 18:19George Kamel?

  That's his own life hack.

• 18:21Rachel Cruze?

  Because of how expensive childcare is, a lot of people are re-examining, okay, is it even worth me working? Right? After taxes and everything is done, you're like, okay, how much are we actually gaining per month?

• 18:31George Kamel?

  How did your relationship with your spouse change when you became parents?

• 18:35Rachel Cruze?

  Ooh.

• 18:37George Kamel?

  That's deep.

• 18:38Rachel Cruze?

  I mean, I, naturally, I feel like you have less time together. But Winston and I are early bedtime, like the kids, like it's like seven o'clock still. Like our kids are kind of, I know.

• 18:48George Kamel?

  That's impressive.

• 18:49Rachel Cruze?

  We, we get them going. If it's, it's a big deal if they're up till eight. So we do, we will try to like in the evenings have time together, but it's just, it is harder. I'm like, when you try to talk to each other, it's like, oh my God, people just screaming at you and wanting to talk to you and stuff. You know what I mean? Like uninterrupted conversation is, it's hard. So I would say, yeah, there's a level there that changes. But then on the other end, like you see your spouse be a parent and it's beautiful.

• 19:19George Kamel?

  That's true.

• 19:20Rachel Cruze?

  We always laugh, Winston's more nurturing than I am. Like he knows what to do more in like situations that they go to dad a lot more.

• 19:26George Kamel?

  You're more likely to Google it and he's just like, he goes in.

• 19:29Rachel Cruze?

  He's like, oh yeah, the, he like, he knows the words that is like not Tylenol Advil. It's the other big words behind those.

• 19:36George Kamel?

  Aminophen?

• 19:37Rachel Cruze?

  Like that. I'm like, well, this is this is the hat and you can do it every four hours. Or we can rotate with this because of the and I'm like, how do you Dr. Winston? How do you know all this? So like, he knows a lot. Very basic.

• 19:51George Kamel?

  All right. He knows the generic name for some medication. That's what I've gathered is what's required for Rachel to be like, you're basically a doctor. If you know the generic name for the top three medications in the world.

• 20:05Rachel Cruze?

  Y'all, I am. I am terrible, though. Charles broke his leg, y'all, two summers ago. And I was like, he's like, after it all happened, the incident, I was like, he's fine. And Winston's like, no, he's not. I'm like, babe, I think he's fine. He's like, he's not walking, Rachel. I was like, OK, maybe we should take him in. Broken leg. Then another time Amelia hit her head on a coffee table and I was like, it's fine. Like, you're OK. You're OK. It's fine. And Winston came home from work and he looked, he was like, babe, that is really deep. I'm like, how do you know it's deep? I don't know. She had to get staples.

• 20:39Rachel Cruze?

  So like, obviously medically not very inclined.

• 20:43George Kamel?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 20:44Rachel Cruze?

  But it kind of stopped bleeding. I was like, I think you're fine.

• 20:46George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 20:47Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know. So the medically inclines, it's not my go to. So to see your to see him step into this role and like, he really does. He like cares for them. He's really good at stuff like he knows what to do and all of it. We're all just like, what to do?

• 21:02George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 21:03Rachel Cruze?

  So that's what I would say. How about you?

• 21:05George Kamel?

  I would say number one, it was deeper because of this shared experience.

• 21:10Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 21:10George Kamel?

  And then it also became transactional at first because of the like partnership of just like, hey, what do I need to do? What do you need to do? What do I need to do? It sort of became like a to do list of, all right, you do this, I'll do this. And there's still teamwork there, but it's not the same as it was before. I'm like, what did we even talk about before we had kids?

• 21:28Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:29George Kamel?

  It just sort of consumes a lot of your life, not in a bad way, but just in a all the other stuff was just less important that we talked about before. And so we just have to be more intentional. Once the baby goes down, like. How you doing? What are you thinking about?

• 21:42Rachel Cruze?

  Totally.

• 21:42George Kamel?

  What's going on? And just also have fun. So I try to always have moments of levity at the house. Make her laugh. That's sort of my way of becoming a person again.

• 21:52Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, I love that. Yep. Yeah, the levity and the laughter is very important for sure. Okay, George, what's your number one lifesaver when it comes to affording kids?

• 22:00George Kamel?

  Oh, my goodness. Well, the budget is, I think, the thing we always go back to. Whitney and I always go, okay, what's in the budget? What are we planning for this month? What's happening? There's this birthday party. We gotta get the decor, the toys. She needs new clothes, all of that. And so that becomes a source of truth to where it's not floating around in our head. And it's not a, wait, you spent what on what? I didn't know. Everything is talked about and the budget is key. And for that, we use EveryDollar. And it makes it super easy. We're both logged in and it's a free app you can go download right now in the App Store. How about you guys?

• 22:29Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I would say that. That's a big one because I think it dictates and shows, hey, what are we able to spend this month? Right? On the kids and knowing ahead of time too. I like it because it also helps with like the schedules. Which sounds silly, but you're like, oh, yeah, soccer signups are there. Okay, so that starts in August and we gotta plug it into the calendar. Like, it kind of helps with the rhythm of life too. So, yeah, the EveryDollar app, I would say that.

• 22:51George Kamel?

  Yeah. Oh, and they can go to everydollar.com/smartmoney to get started. And we'll drop a link in the show notes.

• 22:57Rachel Cruze?

  And then have a line item for each kid in the budget. We do that too.

• 23:00George Kamel?

  Very helpful.

• 23:01Rachel Cruze?

  And so that's helpful too, to see, okay, yeah, how much have we spent this month on this kid or that kid?

• 23:05George Kamel?

  And planning for babysitting. If we know we're gonna have two date nights.

• 23:08Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 23:08George Kamel?

  We need to plan for two nights of babysitting and it's in the budget. So it's not a big surprise or a big, oh, gosh, we gotta pay for this.

• 23:14Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 23:14George Kamel?

  So.

• 23:15Rachel Cruze?

  All right, George, the number one question I always get around kids and money. Should we be out of debt before we have kids?

• 23:20George Kamel?

  Ooh. The hot take is you don't have to be. Wherever you are in your financial journey, again, you will figure it out. You'll make sacrifices. Now, is it gonna be less stressful if you're in a better place financially? Absolutely.

• 23:34Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 23:35George Kamel?

  But I don't like this idea of, well, when we get to this place financially, then we're gonna be ready. Because the truth is, you're never gonna be ready, whether it's emotionally, physically, financially, whatever. So go ahead, have a kid, but also be doing a budget. See how it will affect your life. See where you're gonna need to cut back so it's not a giant surprise. But if it slows down your debt payoff, that's totally okay.

• 23:55Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah, big life moments, you know, getting married, having a kid, all of that. Enjoy life, like you live once, right? So there is a point of like. These things are important too. So if that's what you want to do is start a family, start a family. But to your point, it's like, yeah, money is a tool in life. And when you have more control over it, and even more of it, you know, you have margin, it's not going out the payments, there's going to be places that is going to be less stressful. But don't wait until that point by any means.

• 24:23George Kamel?

  Well, another piece of it that's real is some people wait and then they realize, oh, it's taking us way longer than we thought to have a kid or to get pregnant. And that can be a scary thing. And you look back with regret about waiting so long. And so I just feel like when you're emotionally ready, like you're excited, you have that moment of like, all right, we're going to do this. You just figure it out. Here's the last one that's controversial. Do parents owe it to their kids to pay for college? Whose responsibility is it?

• 24:51Rachel Cruze?

  Not the parents. I think it's a gift if you're able to do that. It's a blessing, but it's not an entitlement. So no, parents should not be forced to pay for their kids' college. Now, again, it's part of the Ramsey baby step. So again, it's a huge benefit if you can. And it should be a goal, right? When you get to that point, because it just, it just helps your kids out to start on a level, you know, foundation financially. But there are ways to go to school debt free. I mean, it's school choice is always huge. Going to a community college, like there's ways to do it.

• 25:22George Kamel?

  Interstate schools.

• 25:23Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and a lot of people are doing gap years even, like there's other things to do around that subject. So as a parent, do not feel like, oh, my gosh, I'm this terrible parent because I can't provide this for my kids. They're going to be okay. They're going to be okay.

• 25:34George Kamel?

  Yep. Yeah, I agree. I think you need, it's your obligation to have the conversation with your kid and student and figure out a plan to go to college debt free. But as far as who's taking what, you know, I'm, my plan is to be able to. I think it's a beautiful thing. And even for like the grandkids, I think it's a cool life goal.

• 25:50Rachel Cruze?

  For sure, yeah.

• 25:50George Kamel?

  To just say, hey, got the grandkids college funded. I'm going to do a lump sum when the kid's born and go.

• 25:55Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, that's nice, George.

• 25:57George Kamel?

  Grandpa George, got you taken care of. Yeah.

• 25:59Rachel Cruze?

  What are they going to call you? What's your grandpa name?

• 26:01George Kamel?

  You know, there's an Arabic name for grandpa that I love.

• 26:04Rachel Cruze?

  That's good.

• 26:04George Kamel?

  I don't know that.

• 26:05Rachel Cruze?

  Papi?

• 26:06George Kamel?

  Are you just guessing?

• 26:09George Kamel?

  Boppy?

• 26:10Rachel Cruze?

  Poppy.

• 26:10George Kamel?

  Oh, Poppy. No, it's not Poppy.

• 26:12Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, what is it?

• 26:13George Kamel?

  It's Giddo.

• 26:15Rachel Cruze?

  Wow.

• 26:16George Kamel?

  Or Jiddo.

• 26:16Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, no. Say it again.

• 26:18George Kamel?

  So Jiddo is like the Syrian Lebanese dialect, is a soft G. And a hard G for the Egyptian side, my dad's side, that's Giddo.

• 26:25Rachel Cruze?

  Giddo. I like Giddo.

• 26:26George Kamel?

  So that's what I hope that my daughter calls.

• 26:27Rachel Cruze?

  I like Giddo better.

• 26:28George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 26:29Rachel Cruze?

  If I had to pick.

• 26:30George Kamel?

  And then Grandma is Teta. So Whitney would become Teta.

• 26:33Rachel Cruze?

  Teta. Isn't that cute? I love that.

• 26:36George Kamel?

  Yeah, I like that.

• 26:37Rachel Cruze?

  So good.

• 26:37George Kamel?

  I like it better than like Memaw. I don't know, there's something, I don't know, I'm not southern enough to go there.

• 26:41Rachel Cruze?

  I know, I had a Mamaw.

• 26:43George Kamel?

  You had a Mamaw?

• 26:44Rachel Cruze?

  Well, she's passed.

• 26:45George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 26:45Rachel Cruze?

  So I'm sorry.

• 26:47George Kamel?

  Mamaw for some reason feels more authentic.

• 26:50Rachel Cruze?

  Mamaw?

• 26:50George Kamel?

  Memaw sounds like.

• 26:51Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, Memaw. Memaw, Mamaw.

• 26:52George Kamel?

  It sounds more like, I don't know.

• 26:53Rachel Cruze?

  Mamaw or Memaw, that's very southern. That's very southern. If you have a Mamaw or a Memaw, that's a, that's a southern.

• 26:58George Kamel?

  But Whitney's parents, they're, they're gonna be called Gigi and Poppy, to your credit.

• 27:03Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, I felt Poppy in the spirit. That's what it was.

• 27:05George Kamel?

  And Gigi, she liked it. My mother-in-law likes that Gigi feels a little younger.

• 27:09Rachel Cruze?

  Gigi's cute.

• 27:10George Kamel?

  Or like Gram Gram or something, you know.

• 27:12Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, Gigi's cute. Um, what are your parents? Do they go Arabic?

• 27:16George Kamel?

  Yeah. I mean, Mia can't speak yet, so I think that's.

• 27:19Rachel Cruze?

  Wait, is it what you just said to me when Mia's gonna, "Oh, I'm sorry, are you gonna adopt the same?" I meant your.

• 27:24George Kamel?

  I would like to.

• 27:25Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, okay, okay. Okay, that's good.

• 27:27George Kamel?

  Like Mia's kids, would they call me?

• 27:28Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:29George Kamel?

  I would like that.

• 27:30Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:30George Kamel?

  I don't know, I can't, my gramps, I don't know, I don't feel like a grandpa.

• 27:33Rachel Cruze?

  Gramps.

• 27:35George Kamel?

  I'm gonna be like Jeff, my goal is to be like Jeff Goldblum when I'm older, like still be kinda like.

• 27:39Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:40George Kamel?

  Whimsical, you don't know what I'm gonna do.

• 27:41Rachel Cruze?

  He's got some glasses.

• 27:42George Kamel?

  Still young. I feel like it all comes down to like, if you're a grandpa and you have like cool glasses and you style your hair and your fashion isn't terrible, you're like.

• 27:50Rachel Cruze?

  You can pull a lot off.

• 27:51George Kamel?

  25 years younger.

• 27:52Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, that's fair. That's totally fair. I love that.

• 27:54George Kamel?

  But I'm excited to wear suspenders too. Always wanted to try that out. Feels like a big part of being a grandpa.

• 27:59Rachel Cruze?

  Coming soon, George, coming soon.

• 28:01George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 28:02Rachel Cruze?

  So good.

• 28:02George Kamel?

  Okay, so.

• 28:03Rachel Cruze?

  Well.

• 28:04George Kamel?

  Here's the spark notes. If you're at a fork in the road, I would say be honest with yourself about what you want for your life and your money and what your spouse wants, and look in the financial mirror, and then take the steps to get there. What is the gap? What do we, what must be true for us to take this next? And then also realize you'll never fully be ready. So if you have some giant checklist of all these things must happen, you'll never have a kid.

• 28:25Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I think that's fair. And I think it's also fair to say that there's, you know, people today that may be of that age and that longing and want it, right? And it's just not happening right now in life for them, right? Whether maybe they're still single or maybe they can't have kids like we were talking about. So it is that the whole like kid conversation, I think it does carry a lot, right? It's a lot of emotion around this topic. But the more again, when you are in that position to say, okay, yeah, financially, how can we be smart about this and be wise in every aspect of life, I think is, I think is key.

• 28:58George Kamel?

  Yeah. And another piece of this is don't alienate yourself, don't alienate your single friends or like bring them into your life.

• 29:05Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 29:05George Kamel?

  A lot of times where single people feel like, well, they're married now, so, or they have kids now. So I don't really feel like I'm a part of that. So you have to be really intentional on all sides. Single people, married people, and then don't judge each other. Like the dinks are like, ha, ha, you have kids. And the kids are like, people with kids are like, we have a better life than you. I don't like this whole like, you know, name calling and other than the fun acronym of dink. I just feel like let's all be kind to each other and realize we're all just doing our best.

• 29:31Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 29:31George Kamel?

  We're all living our life.

• 29:32Rachel Cruze?

  George, you sound like me.

• 29:34George Kamel?

  What is happening to you?

• 29:35Rachel Cruze?

  How did that feel? Oh, dear.

• 29:42Rachel Cruze?

  Well, George, it's almost the end of the episode and we close out every episode with Guilty as charged. And this is where our producer Kelly gives us a new guilty as charged question every week. And if we're guilty, we take a sip. Kelly?

• 29:56Speaker 02

  All right. What's one frivolous expense that you're guilty of splurging on before you had kids?

• 30:02George Kamel?

  Oh, so something we no longer did.

• 30:04Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 30:05George Kamel?

  Once kids entered the picture.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:07George Kamel?

  Vacations?

• 30:08Speaker 02

  Vacations.

• 30:09George Kamel?

  That feels like an accurate one.

• 30:10Rachel Cruze?

  Travel.

• 30:12George Kamel?

  I feel like most things that were for me, like if you look at our Amazon, Target purchase histories, very few things are for me. At this point, most of it is for the baby. And so I think you just shift your spending away from personal things. And I, but I don't feel like I'm missing out either.

• 30:29Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 30:30George Kamel?

  It just felt like when you have disposable income and no kids, you're just like, I don't know.

• 30:33Rachel Cruze?

  I know, I bought a pair of shoes, one pair of shoes. It's like. This brand that I wanted.

• 30:39George Kamel?

  The selfishness.

• 30:40Rachel Cruze?

  And I was like, and now I'm like, I would never, I'd never wear them. And I would never, and again, I think it was that before kids, the dink life, that you're like, oh yeah. I don't know, that, that sounds fun. And I, yeah, that's like the one purchase that I think back on. I'm like, man, that was so stupid.

• 30:56George Kamel?

  Do you still have the shoes?

• 30:57Rachel Cruze?

  I do. Uh huh.

• 30:58George Kamel?

  You still wear them?

• 30:59Rachel Cruze?

  Nope.

• 31:00George Kamel?

  What are they doing? Let's, let's list them.

• 31:02Rachel Cruze?

  They're a moment of time for me.

• 31:04George Kamel?

  You know what we should do? I think we do a whole episode where Rachel just sells her old clothes to Smart Money Happy Hour viewers and listeners.

• 31:10Rachel Cruze?

  No, these were like, not, these were like, um, they had red bottoms, George.

• 31:15George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 31:16Rachel Cruze?

  They were very like-

• 31:17George Kamel?

  I've heard that means something.

• 31:18Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. They were like fancy designer shoes, which I had never bought before. I got them actually after I wrote my first book. That was like one of the first things I did. I know, I mean, I may get like a designer purchase and then never again.

• 31:29George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 31:30Rachel Cruze?

  I know. But I blame the kids for not having some shoes.

• 31:35George Kamel?

  Well, you gotta afford a Charles King bed. So I get it. Sacrifices must be made. I think we're both guilty, but they're, they're all things that I don't miss. You know what I mean?

• 31:45Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 31:46George Kamel?

  How about you, Kelly?

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Um, I used to go to, this isn't one splurge, but I used to go to Starbucks every morning.

• 31:52George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  And then, um, so my kids are adopted and when we started the adoption process and my husband slid a piece of paper over and he said, this is what your Starbucks daily is costing. And I was like, oh, oh, wow. And how much that went towards, you know, cause adoption's expensive.

• 32:08George Kamel?

  So what did he sacrifice and cut out?

• 32:11Speaker 02

  He's not a spender.

• 32:12George Kamel?

  Must be nice. Easy for him to say.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  He's not a spender, but, um, it's a treat now. Not an everyday thing. Cause it was thousands.

• 32:21George Kamel?

  I imagine-

• 32:22Rachel Cruze?

  Are you a Keurig girl?

• 32:24Speaker 02

  No, um, no, because now my husband drinks coffee, I drink coffee, my kids drink coffee. Keurig would be too expensive, so.

• 32:30Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  It's a pot of coffee in the morning.

• 32:33George Kamel?

  I imagine for the ladies, the self-care kinda take a backseat when you become a mom. Like, you know, getting the nails done, like, you know, massages. Although Winnie's back in massage mode, can I say that? Because of momhood. It has messed up her back to where she has to go to physical therapy.

• 32:47Rachel Cruze?

  Oh no.

• 32:48George Kamel?

  And so I'm like, girl, let's get you that massage.

• 32:50Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, for sure, at that point. See, those were things that like kept me alive, not massages, but like my nails, my hair.

• 32:56George Kamel?

  You still felt like, alright, I'm a person.

• 32:58Rachel Cruze?

  A couple of things, like I'm a person, yes, yeah.

• 32:59George Kamel?

  You know what Whitney just got that she loves now as a mom is a nice set of PJs. Truthfully, she was wearing like old, like, you know, she worked at Ramsey for nine years. We have a lot of T-shirts, every event, I see some around the room, there's a new T-shirt.

• 33:11Rachel Cruze?

  Totally, yes.

• 33:11George Kamel?

  So she would get big baggy Ramsey T-shirts from events and then wear those every night.

• 33:15Rachel Cruze?

  Totally.

• 33:16George Kamel?

  And she has like matching PJ sets now, and she feels like a whole new person.

• 33:20Rachel Cruze?

  That's a grown up step, for sure, when you get the matching PJ set.

• 33:23George Kamel?

  That's big. So you switch out your old frivolous stuff for new fancy adult stuff.

• 33:26Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I think that's just like age too, not necessarily motherhood. I think that's like, it's an adult, it's an adult thing, as a woman.

• 33:35George Kamel?

  Put on your Restoration Hardware bathrobe.

• 33:39George Kamel?

  I got her that for a

• 33:41Rachel Cruze?

  Great gift.

• 33:42George Kamel?

  Birthday one year.

• 33:42Rachel Cruze?

  So good.

• 33:43George Kamel?

  That was a good one.

• 33:43Rachel Cruze?

  So good.

• 33:44George Kamel?

  That's fun.

• 33:45Rachel Cruze?

  Well, if you guys have any fun and guilty as charged questions, make sure to DM us on social because we check them. And you give us some good ones, you guys, so make sure to do that. And George, uh, who's, who's finishing first?

• 33:57George Kamel?

  I think I'm a little closer, just barely.

• 33:59Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 33:59George Kamel?

  Just inch you out.

• 34:00Rachel Cruze?

  It was great. It's melting, quickly.

• 34:03George Kamel?

  This was a Isn't She Lovely, again named after producer Kelly. I'm gonna rate this, I'm gonna give it a seven out of 10.

• 34:12Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, I'm going, I'm going eight out of 10.

• 34:15George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 34:16Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 34:17George Kamel?

  I really have no bad words for it, I just wish it was a little bit punchier.

• 34:21Rachel Cruze?

  It's very simple.

• 34:22George Kamel?

  It's very light, refreshing, I almost want a little more flavor, but I think this is a lovely drink.

• 34:30George Kamel?

  The cost per glass? $2.98 a glass, and here's what's in it. It's got vodka, fresh grapefruit juice, lemon juice, elderflower liqueur, blanc vermouth, simple syrup, and club soda. So there's a lot in there, but it all just kind of like melds together in this light, airy, effervescent, I think is the only word for it.

• 34:51Rachel Cruze?

  You know, I always think like, when I order at a restaurant, I would not order this for dinner. Like this wouldn't be like a cocktail of like, oh, before dinner, but If I'm at a beach or a pool.

• 35:02George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 35:03Rachel Cruze?

  A poolside at like 3 o'clock.

• 35:05George Kamel?

  What's the fancy hotel that you've gone to and you felt out of place? The Bergdorf or something?

• 35:10Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, that was for lunch.

• 35:11George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 35:11Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yeah. Bergdorf's for lunch in New York City.

• 35:14George Kamel?

  This is a drink you could get at Bergdorf's. It'd be very classy.

• 35:17Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, for sure. Yeah. And they're sipping that out of a martini.

• 35:20George Kamel?

  They'll just charge you, I guess, is 10 times the cost?

• 35:23Rachel Cruze?

  What is it? Two?

• 35:24George Kamel?

  It was $2.98.

• 35:25Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:26George Kamel?

  After tax and tip, 30 bucks.

• 35:28Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, man.

• 35:28George Kamel?

  There you go. Recipes in the show notes. Give it a try this weekend.

• 35:32Rachel Cruze?

  So great. And if you enjoyed this episode, make sure to check out our episode on why people are having fewer children coming up next. Yeah. Make sure to subscribe, you guys. Uh, we appreciate you watching and listening and we'll see you next Thursday on an all new episode of Smart Money Happy Hour.