The PSYCHOLOGICAL TRICKS To Master CONFIDENCE & Crush Fear

Today we are taken on a journey of self-discovery and confidence-building. Through a series of expert insights and practical advice, you will learn effective strategies for boosting your self-confidence. Discover how to overcome self-doubt, harness your inner strength, and embrace your unique qualities. Gain the tools to project confidence in various aspects of your life, from personal relationships to professional endeavors. This episode is a powerful reminder that self-confidence is not only attainable but essential for reaching your full potential and achieving your goals. Tune in, and let your self-confidence soar to new heights. Evy Poumpouras was a member of the most prestigious protection force in the world for over 12 years. She served on the secret service presidential protection division for President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama. She also protected presidents, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George H. W. Bush. Stephen A. Smith is the star of the #1 morning sports talk show First Take, a premiere analyst on ESPN and ABC’s NBA Countdown, the host of NBA in Stephen A’s World on ESPN2 and ESPN+, and the host and producer of the podcast K[no]w Mercy with Stephen A. Smith. Smith has more than 12 million followers across social media platforms, and his opinions on sports make daily headlines. Inky Johnson is a husband, father, collegiate athlete, entrepreneur and author. Inky is also one of the most highly sought after speakers in the world. For over a decade, executives, professional sports teams, business owners and people all over have benefited from the raw energy of his thought provoking and inspirational presentations. Susan David is a psychologist, originally from South Africa, that has been learning about emotions and people’s pursuit of happiness since she lost her father in high school. She has recently written a best selling book, Emotional Agility, about the importance of every emotion we go through. Susan also recently gave a TED Talk that was one of the most successful campaigns to date. It received over a million views within the first week. In this episode you will learnThe best way to build command, authority, and credibility. How to stop worrying about other people’s opinions and own the room. What betting on yourself should look & feel like. How to make your hard work stand out. Ways to navigate criticism while maintaining your confidence. For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1521For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960Links to full episodes:Evy Poumpouras: https://link.chtbl.com/1270-podStephen A. Smith: https://link.chtbl.com/1380-podInky Johnson: https://link.chtbl.com/1279-podSusan David: https://link.chtbl.com/1089-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Evy Poumpouras?

  Confident people don't care how right they are. They don't. When you're confident, like I know what I know, I'm good with it. You have to check in with yourself and realize it's, am I being a coward? I think bravery is something that we don't speak about, and courage is something we don't speak about.

• 0:15Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:39Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to this special masterclass. We've brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today. It's going to be powerful, so let's go ahead and dive in.

• 0:57Lewis Howes?

  How can someone overcome that fear of, you know, a classmate laughing about them or saying, oh, that was a dumb question? Or just something maybe bigger, they're putting something out on social media and getting attacks or, or whatever it might be. How do people overcome that insecurity?

• 1:12Evy Poumpouras?

  Well, I think, do you think we've taken a step back actually in in-person communication? A huge step. Everything now is, people are more comfortable in texting and communicating, communicating through social. And then when it comes to in-person, something's completely shifted. You can see people having a harder time communicating in person and everyone's kind of deviating towards typing, texting, or email. It's become the comfort.

• 1:37Lewis Howes?

  What's the most, the easiest way to communicate without? Yeah, exactly.

• 1:41Evy Poumpouras?

  Text is the easiest, email. So here's the thing, in-person is the best way to communicate, by the way. Whenever I can speak to somebody in person or sit down and see them, like this, this is where you get the best. This is where you get magic, right? Then there's you. Okay. Then there's the phone. Phone is another great way, but when you go to email, you still have to write. You can, but long form sentences, you have to write properly. Texting is just a couple of words.

• 2:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 2:10Evy Poumpouras?

  And that is where everyone's kind of shifted to gone. It's also the, on an, um, when I text or when I post on social, I'm not as, it's keyboard courage.

• 2:21Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:22Evy Poumpouras?

  I'm not.

• 2:23Lewis Howes?

  You wouldn't say it to someone's face.

• 2:24Evy Poumpouras?

  You never say it to somebody's face.

• 2:25Lewis Howes?

  I feel like you should only say things online with what you would say to that person to their face. Otherwise, what are we doing?

• 2:31Evy Poumpouras?

  Yes. If you can't look at somebody and say it, then you shouldn't write it. But it's the anonymity. That I can write this stuff and then I can take out whatever's going on in my life, out on somebody else, and I can feel brave in that way. But it's such a false way to be brave.

• 2:51Lewis Howes?

  What does that do to the person communicating in that way? Having that false bravery by saying something strong or powerful or aggressive online, but the unwillingness to do that in person? What does that do to that person?

• 3:05Evy Poumpouras?

  You have to check in with yourself and realize it's, am I being a coward?

• 3:09Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 3:10Evy Poumpouras?

  If I can't say something to somebody's face, but I can do it over text, there's something that's missing.

• 3:15Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 3:17Evy Poumpouras?

  I think bravery is something that we don't speak about and courage is something we don't speak about. We don't do it in a very overt way, in a very physical way, in a very engaged way. It's talked about as this like thing. Oh, be brave, be motivated. Wh- where is that? You have to manifest that with your body. You have to do it. And it's doing it in the day to day decisions that you make.

• 3:41Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:42Evy Poumpouras?

  So going back to my class, it's interesting. We talk about criminal justice, right? Criminology and sometimes we'll talk about even being, uh, for example, I showed them a video of somebody who fell on these New York City train tracks in New York City. And there were all these people in the platform. One person gets down to go help the person. And so I asked them, would you do that?

• 4:03Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 4:04Evy Poumpouras?

  The majority of the class, no. No, hell no. No. Whoa. I'm not gonna do that. And I hear that and I think something is lost there amongst us. When the answer, at least I feel through my belief system again, is that the overwhelming answer should be like, I would wanna help save another human being's life. I would wanna help save somebody else. But we've come to this place where it's very much self-preservation. Don't say anything wrong, don't do the wrong thing.

• 4:33Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:34Evy Poumpouras?

  Right? And attack in a way that's safe and comfortable. Or not even attack, but you can disagree, and here's the other amazing thing. I think we don't understand how to disagree. So you can disagree, or you can be competitive. It's something actually that you're taught in interviewing and in, uh, interrogations.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  Is this, are you trying to be competitive in interrogation, or just?

• 4:56Evy Poumpouras?

  So, you, so when I say competitive, I mean that I can disagree with you in a healthy way.

• 5:01Lewis Howes?

  Uh-huh.

• 5:02Evy Poumpouras?

  So you call it competitive dialogue.

• 5:04Lewis Howes?

  How's that look? If I say, you know, the sky is green today.

• 5:09Evy Poumpouras?

  Okay, well, tell me why you think the sky is green.

• 5:13Lewis Howes?

  It's just, it just looks green. You know, I just see the color, you know. I don't know, maybe it's a reflection of something, but it's green, it's not blue.

• 5:21Evy Poumpouras?

  Okay, so now, what I would do in that moment is ask you why you think of it that way? Why you see it that way? What is your belief system?

• 5:29Lewis Howes?

  You're not disagreeing with me and saying, oh, you know, you're an idiot, it's blue.

• 5:32Evy Poumpouras?

  Yes.

• 5:32Lewis Howes?

  You're not doing that. You're not getting like defensive or aggressive.

• 5:36Evy Poumpouras?

  Because that is your value system.

• 5:37Lewis Howes?

  Uh-huh.

• 5:38Evy Poumpouras?

  So I may, for example, I have a very strong belief system, fitness and working out. It's been part of me. But that's my belief system, it is not somebody else's. If I try to impose it to somebody, so for example, when you hear, hear somebody say, I have to lose weight, I have to lose weight. Their belief system is not really based upon working out and fitness. So I can turn around and be very direct, and that's, being direct with someone is the way you lose people. So what you wanna do is, you wanna always let people talk, even if you don't like what they have to say, even if you don't agree with them. Let them go, let them explain themselves.

• 6:12Lewis Howes?

  What happens when you let someone explain themselves, even when you know they're a hundred percent wrong?

• 6:17Evy Poumpouras?

  You shut up.

• 6:19Evy Poumpouras?

  You shut your mouth. That's like the, that's like I always say that, that's my, the, i- i- the gift to any great communicator is this.

• 6:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:27Evy Poumpouras?

  Let them go, don't correct them, don't tell them that they're wrong, just let them be in their world. Now, here's the important thing, one, they're gonna say everything they wanna say. You're gonna understand what their mindset is. And two things happen, one, you can speak now because once somebody's done sharing everything. Now they can hear you. Well, what you do is, you're speaking, I cut you off, I insert myself, you get frustrated, hey, you're not listening to me, I'm talking, she's dismissing me. And so when I speak, you come, you come back at me, I come back at you, and now we have conflict. And so, for example, when I used to do interviews, I would sit in rooms with people who.

• 7:06Lewis Howes?

  When you mean to interview, you mean interrogation.

• 7:08Evy Poumpouras?

  I use, you know, it's interesting.

• 7:09Lewis Howes?

  You call them interviews though.

• 7:10Evy Poumpouras?

  Interviews and interrogations are the same thing, so what you see in TV, in Law and Order, that you did it, you this, you that, that's garbage, it doesn't work. Doesn't that work? You're, the best confessions I've ever gotten, they've been almost like psychology sessions or conversations. Where people progressively, over a bit of time, give you what we call admissions.

• 7:33Lewis Howes?

  Little more, a little more.

• 7:34Evy Poumpouras?

  Yes, so it'll be like, yes, I was there at the house, oh, yes, I was there at the time. Yes, I saw her, or I saw him. Yes, I left upset. Yes, this, yes, that, and then incrementally, they get to, you get to the confession, yes, I did it. Whatever that is, right? Whereas we go straight, most people go straight for the kill, tell me. And it's because of this lack of patience, this thing that we know everything. And you know, maybe you are right in that moment, but it's not what you think, it's what the other person thinks, understanding how they think. Getting into their head and speaking to them, so now if we bring this back to what you asked me about.

• 8:14Evy Poumpouras?

  Being competitive means, I can compete with you in ideas, without being, it being ugly, without being confrontational or conflict. But what we've done is, we've made conflict a confrontation, this very negative thing. We don't want it, when it happens, people lose their minds. I have so many people reach out, especially when I do consulting, how do I, the question's always, how do I avoid confrontation? How do I avoid conflict? Why do you spend so much time avoiding it? Why do you spend so much time avoiding speaking what you what you wanna say, speaking your truth or sharing your ideas? And why can you not present them in a way?

• 8:57Evy Poumpouras?

  Where there is disagreement, there is competitiveness, I compete, you compete. No, the sky is green. Well, I see it this way. Oh, I see it blue. But why do you see it this way? And you have that dialogue.

• 9:07Lewis Howes?

  But it's not an aggressive competitiveness. It's a it's an it's an open dialogue.

• 9:11Evy Poumpouras?

  It's not me being a jerk to show you how smart I am. And it's not me shutting you down. And it's not me having an attachment to the end result. Me being right and me showing you how right I am. Confident people don't care how right they are. They don't. When you're confident, it's like, I know what I know. I'm good with it. This person sees things a different way. And also, it also comes into where the dialogue where sometimes we think, well, I'm saying this. And this is what I mean. You also have to think, what is this person hearing? So just because I think, well, I said this, it's like, that's great. But what are they hearing? How do they hear you?

• 9:50Lewis Howes?

  What's the skill then for people to uh? What happens when people avoid conflict as much as possible as opposed to leaning into it and being comfortable with the discomfort of conflict?

• 10:03Evy Poumpouras?

  That is very dangerous and it is very bad.

• 10:05Lewis Howes?

  To avoid it.

• 10:06Evy Poumpouras?

  To avoid it because I'm not telling you to go look for it. Avoid it to certain degrees when it it's when it's noise, when it's chatter. Like people talk to me about politics all the time because I was former Secret Service. I I don't participate. Uh to me, it's noise, it's chatter. I don't share. And I never speak about the people that I had access to are protected. So but that it doesn't matter to me.

• 10:28Lewis Howes?

  But a conflict between relationships of friends or family or coworkers or.

• 10:32Evy Poumpouras?

  So it depends. If it's important to you, you should address it. What you do is it causes long-term regret.

• 10:39Lewis Howes?

  If you don't.

• 10:40Evy Poumpouras?

  If you don't address it. It it causes you to be to uh build up resentment, anger, bitterness and hate. That's where that comes from.

• 10:48Lewis Howes?

  And then the other person doesn't even know what they did maybe.

• 10:51Evy Poumpouras?

  It maybe they know, but if you don't check them, cuz from time to time in life you have to, I say check, uh this is my queens coming out, but when I say check, address it.

• 11:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, check in with them.

• 11:02Evy Poumpouras?

  Yes, you said this.

• 11:05Evy Poumpouras?

  This is how I see this. And when you, when you debate something with people, use language that's factual. You said this, you said this, you said this.

• 11:17Lewis Howes?

  How does someone overcome the doubts that come up? Whether it be the fear of failure, the fear of success, the fear of other people's opinions, the fear of pleasing their parents? How do they overcome the doubts? And start to gain that confidence, that self-esteem like you?

• 11:31Speaker 02

  Well, a couple of things. Number one, first of all, understand you're not alone. That everybody you run across has had doubts. Everybody you've run across has had apprehension about who they are, where they're, where they are, where they're going, etc. You're not alone. In situations like that, you want company. You want to feel like you're not this aberration. You're not this anomaly standing alone by yourself in the wilderness of fear. And you're the only one that doesn't have the courage to tackle it and overcome it. That's number one. Number two, educate yourself about what you want to do.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  You should be scared if you're clueless.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  You should be scared if you're ignorant to what you want to do, why you want to do it, and how you intend to go about achieving whatever aspirations you may have. You're supposed to, if you're going to overcome that fear at some point, knowledge is a part of the equation. So educate yourself about what it is, your field is, what it is, your aspirations are, whatever the case may be, the mind fields, that lion weight, all of these different, the potential mind fields, etc., etc. You got to know, to educate yourself about those things, because you have no shot at overcoming it if you don't educate yourself. And last but not least, you know, it's not just about educating yourself and knowing that you have company.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  But really, the most important thing is really putting yourself, and it requires like a literal, not just figurative, but a literal look in the mirror. Asking yourself how you will feel if you never try.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Asking yourself, if I never try, if I don't go for this, where's that gonna leave me? When you don't do that, what you have done is refrain from challenging yourself to be all you could be. Because there's no one that could become all they could be without looking at themselves. Absolutely. You know, Denzel Washington talks about consistency, the importance of consistency. You understand? You gotta put in the work, you gotta go for it, but you have to have consistency. Because without consistency, you're putting in the work, the dream is nothing but a dream. Right. And I get all of that, but you have to be able to look at yourself.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  And you have to be able to be honest with yourself and know when you mess up. Because when you mess up, Louis, it's gonna catch you. What I mean when I say it's gonna catch you is, at some point, you're gonna look at you and you're gonna say, "I didn't try, I didn't go for it." And we know this because of relationships and various other things, but I often tell people this, particularly when it comes to relationships. Relationships come and go. Things don't work out sometimes.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  But there is nothing on earth worse than when you know you're the reason it messed up. See, if somebody mistreats you, if somebody that you love wants you, you know, don't want you no more, but you wanted them and you treated them right and blah, blah, blah, but it didn't work out, it hurts. But you'll be fine. Yeah. Most people will be fine. When you're not fine is when you know it was you. You messed up. You messed up. You hurt them. You want, you wanted them and you messed up. And you messed up. Now, if you didn't want them and you messed up, okay, because you didn't want them. Perfectly illogical explanation as to why you messed up, but when you wanted them and you effed up, it's no greater pain. Yeah.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  Because you gotta look at you. You gotta say, "Damn."

• 15:31Speaker 02

  I blew this. And that's some hard, hard stuff to overcome. Cause it lives with you because no matter what you have, even if it's better, you don't know it because you're thinking about what you lost because you're the one who messed up.

• 15:44Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  If they messed up, you ain't thinking about it like that. But if you messed up, you're always thinking about what you lost. And it's hard to move forward.

• 15:53Lewis Howes?

  I've got a handful of questions for you left.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 15:57Lewis Howes?

  And one of them is about in the book, Straight Shooter. Make sure you guys get the copy of the book, Straight Shooter, Amazing Stories and Lessons from Stephen A. You talk about your dad and I'm curious, the biggest lesson he taught you, whether in a good way or a bad way, that you said, this is something he did positive that I'm gonna do as a father? Or something that I'll never do as a father that he did? What is that lesson? And what has he taught you about fatherhood now that you are a father?

• 16:27Speaker 02

  The importance is two things, one positive, one negative. The positive part is he taught us the importance of laughter because my father was funny.

• 16:36Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 16:37Speaker 02

  And you know, he was exceptional in sports and he was an exceptional calypso dancer. He could sing and he would make people laugh and smile all the time. He could light up a room. And you know, the importance of laughter, you could bring up a lot of gifts, but somebody's ability to make other people, other people laugh is one of the greatest gifts you could ever give anybody. That's a positive.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  The negative is that, and it answers the question about fatherhood,

• 17:11Speaker 02

  he taught me what not to be as a father.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  My father, this is in the book, he just wasn't good.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  I loved him, always will.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  But I didn't shed a tear when he was gone.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  The only reason I see him at his gravesite is because he's buried next to my mother.

• 17:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  If he wasn't, I wouldn't go visit him. We didn't have that good of a relationship. It's not hatred,

• 17:52Speaker 02

  but there is a significant and flagrant lack of respect.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  My lack of respect for my father

• 18:03Speaker 02

  has very little to do with me.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  It has very little to do

• 18:11Speaker 02

  with how he quote-unquote treated my mother.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  Because my philosophy is, don't put your hands on a woman. He put his hands on my mother, we'd have killed him. But he never did that. And he preached against it, so I give him credit for that. But what he did with my mother,

• 18:34Speaker 02

  he forced her to be the man of the house. Now, I know that's not the popular thing to say in this woke culture. I'm not apologizing for that. It is a beautiful, beautiful thing for a woman to have a career, to make money, to provide for her family. I admire it, I respect it. I throw no shade on it. But I am unapologetic about the fact that if you can afford it, it is your responsibility as a man to provide for your family.

• 19:10Lewis Howes?

  Especially if your wife just has six kids. You've got to take care of nurturing and feeding and developing.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  It's your job. It's your job. You understand? I mean, any help that she could give you is great. But the responsibility is supposed to be yours. And if you can't do it, you scratch, claw, and even die trying. One of my favorite all-time shows was the show Good Times. James Evans Senior. You know?

• 19:41Speaker 02

  He lived in the projects in Chicago.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  They had to scratch and claw. They barely had enough money to feed their family. It was popping in the projects. But that's what they had to deal with. He was the one out there busting his butt every day to make sure that his wife and his children were provided for. I'm of that ilk. It means nothing to me. And I mean nothing. And I'm not married. I've never been married, even though I'll probably get married sometime in the near future. The bottom line is this. It's my responsibility. And I usually say this, and even though I would take care of my wife and what have you, I have two daughters, and I tell people all the time. If they're hungry, it's because I'm starving.

• 20:28Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  I don't eat. I don't eat unless I know they eat.

• 20:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  I'm not comfortable until they're comfortable. I'm not providing for me until I provide for them.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  When they're taken care of is when I get to take care of me.

• 20:46Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  The priority is them because they didn't ask to be here.

• 20:51Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  They're mine and they're my responsibility.

• 20:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  And I live by that.

• 20:58Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:58Speaker 02

  And so to me, any man that thinks differently is not the kind of man that I respect.

• 21:06Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  And my father was not that kind of man.

• 21:10Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Do you feel like something unlocked inside of you when you had your first child? Because at the time, if the timeline is right, you got lost the job and then the child was on the way, the first child. Was there a new?

• 21:24Speaker 02

  She had just arrived, she had just arrived, yes.

• 21:25Lewis Howes?

  Was there a new power, energy, or something that?

• 21:28Speaker 02

  It was pure fear.

• 21:29Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 21:30Speaker 02

  It was pure fear, Louis.

• 21:31Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  I've never been more scared in my life. I've never been more scared in my life. I was petrified and I held on to that because regardless of what I felt I didn't deserve from ESPN letting me go, the reality of the situation was it was the time I was living in. And I had to find a way to feed my child. It's just that simple. And I was scared to death.

• 21:58Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  To death. I mean, I really, really, really was. I had saved up money. I had saved up well over half a million dollars and I was living off of it.

• 22:09Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  You know?

• 22:10Lewis Howes?

  You see that go down every month.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  You see that go down every month and it's dwindling and you're like, oh. You know, it was really, really, really scary. So for me, that's what it is now. Anything that I have now is dressing. Because to me, I can give up a couple of my cribs. You know, I can give up the cars. I can give up any of that stuff. What I can never give up is making sure that my daughters are provided for.

• 22:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  That's my number one responsibility. Everything comes after because I'm a man. And that's my responsibility.

• 22:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  And if I were to get married, even though unmarried, I'm still like that. But if I was married, I'd be even more like that. It's my job to handle my responsibility for my wife. Now, some people be like, man, please, you got some men out there that's like, hey, man, please pay some bills. What you think? I don't think like that because anytime I see a woman pushing and struggling or whatever, I think about my mom and what my mother was forced to go through. And so for me, that is everything to me. You do what you want. I'm talking about what you have to do. I'm not talking about doing what you want. To me, if you are a man and you have a woman in your life, you have a family,

• 23:37Speaker 02

  she should have to pay bills. That's your job. That's just the way I am.

• 23:45Lewis Howes?

  What would you say was the biggest fear or insecurity that you overcame or needed to overcome since after those two years until now? Was it learning how to do public speaking? Was it learning how to accept yourself and the way you looked? Was it connecting with your boys in a certain way or being perceived as someone who got injured? Was it, what was the fear or insecurity you had to overcome?

• 24:08Speaker 02

  Man, I would say it's layered. So I want to, I want to touch on it. It was extremely difficult when I first started going out with my arm. It was extremely difficult, you know, because.

• 24:20Lewis Howes?

  Were you single at the time or did you have a girl at the time or?

• 24:23Speaker 02

  No, me and my wife, you know, we, we've been on and off, you know? She's had more patience with me.

• 24:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. But at the time you were with her or on and off with her?

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, on and off and, but she, she was always there, man. It was my immaturity.

• 24:37Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  But, you know, my arm.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  You know, it's just naturally, you know, smaller. Mm-hmm. And so, when I first started going out, sleeve, and I would go out and either people would shy away. Hmm. Which would hurt, you know, in the early years, or a person would just look, right, like, man, what is that? You know, and very few people would ask, right, when I started going out with my sleeve, very few people would say, just in terms of if I'm out in the area, like, if I'm at Habitat for Humanity, I'm there with the football team. So it's all good, like, people gonna come over, boom, but if I'm out, like, solo. Yeah. Walking through the mall, very few people would just come up and be like, hey, man, what happened?

• 25:21Speaker 03

  They would just look, right, and just stare, and that was extremely difficult for me for a long time. Right, just thinking about, okay, man, like, what are they thinking? Right, or it really hurt when people would just look and they would think I'm looking and they would shy away. Like, that hurt, you know, early on, but I would say the biggest thing that I've had to overcome, like, public speaking, I was fearful of that, but the biggest thing, man, was, um, running from poverty. You know, what I considered to be poverty, man, um, because I thought football was gonna help my family. And so when I started speaking, I started doing extremely well, you know, have been for a while, with speaking,

• 26:06Speaker 03

  to where I would just go, and I was just trying to accept gigs, gigs, gigs. Make as much to. Oh, I was just running, right, just trying to speak, because I grew up a certain way, and I was like, man, I don't want. You don't wanna go back there. Yeah, to have to grow up the way I grew up, my kids, or go back to that environment. And I loved every element of it, right, I loved the encounters with the people, I loved the impact that it gives you. I was just running from my past, and I'll never forget, I was in a small group and a gentleman was walking around in a circle, and he was like, what's something that, you know, you guys feel like in your childhood, you're still dealing with, or you're running from? And, you know, everybody would raise their hand and say something, and he got to me, and I was like, poverty.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  And he was like, are you in poverty? I was like, no, he was like, well, stop running. And in its simplicity, it was yet profound, but it was simple, right? And I thought about it when I got to my room. And I'll never forget was I got a gig. And it was one of the biggest gigs I had gotten to date. And they were about to pay me more money.

• 27:12Lewis Howes?

  How old were you then? How old are you?

• 27:13Speaker 03

  I was thirty six now. I was probably thirty.

• 27:18Lewis Howes?

  Okay, six years ago.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:20Lewis Howes?

  They're about to pay your biggest check ever.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, biggest check ever. And I was stoked. And the challenge was it fell on my wife's birthday. Right? And so I'm like, man. And so, you know, you start working it out in your mind. Oh, man, my wife's birthday. I started talking.

• 27:38Lewis Howes?

  Negotiating with her.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  Negotiating.

• 27:39Lewis Howes?

  Your birthday week before or week after.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  Right, I'm working it out. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I bring it to her, I already done worked it out. Hey babe, this gig, you know, like, I could send you and grandma to the spa. I can come back right after that. We can work. I got it all figured out. Oh, I got it all figured out. And she could see how excited I was, so she was like, oh, yeah, yeah, go, sure, go. And my wife, and my wife been at it since fifth grade, so she knows me. Go. So I go, it works out, do the gig. I send them to the spa. Fly back the same day. Pick her up. Everything goes great on the birthday. Two days later. Think it was something about, might have been some socks or something at the house, something small. Wife blew up.

• 28:26Speaker 03

  Right? She showed a side to me that I hadn't even seen yet, right? And I knew exactly what it was. Like, it clicked immediately. I was like, that was the gig. I was like, she's blowing up, not because she's blowing up about the gig. She felt as if I value the opportunity, the engagement and the money over her and her birthday. That was the damage. Right? Over the kids, over the family, over that moment. Right? And so what I had to do was realize that, man, you got renewable and you got non-renewable moments in life. Right? Renewable, you can always make some more money. Right? Non-renewable, my wife will never get another thirtieth birthday. My son will never have another tenth birthday.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  My daughter never have another eleventh birthday. Right, and so my biggest thing that I had to overcome and destroy and grow through was that spirit and that thought process of running from poverty. Something I encountered as a kid. And once I got to a solid space as an adult, you know, every next level of our lives demand a new version of us. Right, taking that toolkit.

• 29:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  Reconstructing it, growing to another level. So I didn't do damage by having the right intentions while doing damage, the right intention. I want my family to have a better way of life, but I'm doing damage with the right intention because I'm not growing beyond that level and that thought process.

• 29:52Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 29:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:53Lewis Howes?

  So how do you negotiate? What if you got a hundred thousand dollar gig on her birthday?

• 29:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:59Lewis Howes?

  I used to say, nah, sorry, sorry, Nike, nah, can't come and speak the same day.

• 30:04Speaker 03

  Nah, we good, go, go, right, we good. Yeah, but man, just trying to communicate, you know, that's a skill that

• 30:11Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 30:11Speaker 03

  I don't think is man we always get or cultivate, you know, so, but yeah, it worked out.

• 30:17Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think so many people hold on to their tragedies or traumas so intently in their present? From something that happened two, five, 10, 20 years ago? Why do you think people hold on to it so long?

• 30:31Speaker 03

  I think just the, the nature of the impact when it happens, right? And how it stuns their life, right? Like I had one of my friends who is a high level coach, division one coach, that ended up getting fired. And um, great coach, man, just had a bad run, bad couple of years. And hit me up and was like, hey, Inc, man, I need you to help me with something. Said, why am I resisting opportunities to get another head gig? It's like, I love ball. Like, why am I resisting the opportunity? Why am I fearful? And I was like, I'm not saying this is for certain. But I think for one, maybe the embarrassment of being fired. Mm hmm. And how that made you feel.

• 31:16Speaker 03

  How that impacted your children. How that impacted your family. Because I think painful experiences. They always come with a lot of different emotions. Right, like me talking about going out. It was hard for me with my arm when people would look at me. Right, that was a bit embarrassing at first. Right, and so sometimes we hold on to these different emotions. That attach to the experiences that we have. So I think you got the experience. And then you got the collateral damage of the experience. Yeah. How it affects our mindset. How it affects the way we see people. How it affects our emotions. And I think sometimes it's challenging to separate the two. And deconstruct the two. Mm hmm. And so therefore, we hold on to the feelings that the trauma may have given us.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  Right, the feelings that the adversity and opposition may have given us. And so I think the moment that we can grow through it. Mm hmm. And figure out a way to use it. I think the quicker we get through it. Because I think it's a powerful thing, Louis, and I think you probably noticed to be true. When we use what happens to us. And it creates a light bulb moment for another person. That's a great feeling. It's like when you get something for yourself for Christmas. Mm hmm. That's awesome. It feels great. But when you do something for another person that you know is in need. Like that feels ten times better for some reason. Mm hmm. And so I take adversity and opposition. And I I interconnected the same way. Yeah. When we go through things that hurts, or we figure out a way to get through it.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  But when we share something and we identify with another person. To let them know that, because oftentimes when people go through stuff, you feel alone, you feel isolated. And you feel like, man, like, is something wrong with me? And I think what happens when we go through and we create a level of empathy. We show them that, nah, man, you're human. Like, we all go through things. Like, nobody is perfect. Like, I told a guy that had a brachial plexus injury, he's like, man, I see how you got through it. Like, it hasn't been that easy for me. I was like, no, bro, it took work. It took years. Like, this was painful. I went through every emotion that you're probably going through. And I had a lot of people to help me with them. And so I feel like sometimes it's just the feelings. That are attached and interconnected to the experiences that we have.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  That creates the reason that we hold on to it for so long.

• 33:34Susan David?

  What often happens when we get hooked, imprisoned by our thoughts, emotions, stories is we, we over identify with it. And so we start saying things like, "I am sad." Again, if we just think about the language, it's so normal. Of course we say that. "I am sad. I am angry." But "I am sad," what are we doing? We are saying, "I am." All of me, 100% of me is sad. There's no space for wisdom, values, intention,

• 34:05Susan David?

  calm. Like, there's so much inside all of us that is beyond that difficult emotion. But when we say "I am," we are literally defining ourselves with it.

• 34:15Lewis Howes?

  So it's not, it's not using the words "I am," it's maybe something else?

• 34:18Susan David?

  You could say, "Well, if we say 'I am sad,' or even 'I am being undermined,' 'I am being undermined,' again, you are creating a prison. 'I am,' this is fact. 'I am being undermined.' All of me is being undermined. So I've got no choice but to shut down in the conversation." So one of the ways that we can start diffusing is recognizing that when we label our thoughts, emotions, and stories with an "I am,"

• 34:46Susan David?

  and then the word.

• 34:47Lewis Howes?

  It's a big statement, yeah.

• 34:47Susan David?

  It's like, it's almost like there is a cloud, and you have become the cloud, and the cloud is the sad cloud.

• 34:55Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to "I feel sadness."

• 34:57Susan David?

  Correct, correct. So, so the power here is exactly that.

• 35:02Lewis Howes?

  The language, how you use the language.

• 35:04Susan David?

  How we language, how we language matters. Words matter.

• 35:08Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 35:09Susan David?

  So what we can start doing is, it's so simple. You can do it in a meeting. You can do it in a conversation with someone else. You can just start noticing your thoughts and stories for what they are. They're thoughts and stories. So instead of "I am sad," I'm noticing that I'm feeling sad. I'm being undermined. I'm noticing the thought that I'm being undermined. I'm not good enough. I'm noticing that this is my I'm not good enough story.

• 35:37Lewis Howes?

  This is coming up for me.

• 35:38Susan David?

  This is coming up for me. So when you start noticing your thoughts, emotions, stories for what they are, what you are actually doing in effect is you're moving from being the cloud, I am the sad cloud, into recognizing, and for everyone listening right now, you are not the cloud. You, you are the sky.

• 35:56Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 35:57Susan David?

  You know, you are not the cloud, you are the sky.

• 36:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 36:01Susan David?

  And, and, and.

• 36:03Lewis Howes?

  And there is a cloud.

• 36:04Susan David?

  There is a cloud.

• 36:05Lewis Howes?

  In the sky.

• 36:06Susan David?

  You are the sky.

• 36:07Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 36:07Susan David?

  You are human and messy and capacious and beautiful and, and real and, and authentic and you enough to have all of your difficult thoughts, emotions and stories, and to still be the sky.

• 36:27Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 36:27Susan David?

  To still be the you.

• 36:29Lewis Howes?

  That's powerful. Susan, I want to acknowledge you for your, your decades of research and work on what I think is the thing that either holds us back or propels us forward in a big way. And a lot of people are prisoners of their emotion. I feel like there's so many free people in the world who aren't in prison, but we put ourselves in an emotional prison.

• 36:50Susan David?

  Yeah.

• 36:50Lewis Howes?

  That holds us back from peace, joy, love, intimacy.

• 36:55Susan David?

  Yeah.

• 36:55Lewis Howes?

  Uh, creating the life we want.

• 36:58Susan David?

  Yeah.

• 36:58Lewis Howes?

  You know, and we are sickened internally, which manifests physically or in relational or in whatever, by these emotions sometimes. And so I'm so grateful for you for creating tools, strategies, for people to upgrade their tools and strategies that weren't working for them. And so they can have a more harmonious life while not blocking emotions, feeling the range of them, but not being a captive and a prisoner to them. So I really acknowledge you for your consistent dedication to this.

• 37:30Susan David?

  Thank you, and thank you for helping us to get these words out.

• 37:34Lewis Howes?

  Of course, of course. Um, I, I asked you this last time, I think it was like four years ago when you were on last time. So when I asked you this question, it's um, called the three truths.

• 37:43Susan David?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:44Lewis Howes?

  So imagine a hypothetical scenario. You live as long as you want to live, but it's your last day.

• 37:49Susan David?

  Yeah.

• 37:50Lewis Howes?

  Hypothetically, you accomplish everything you want to accomplish. You live your life the way you want to do it. But for whatever reason, you have to take all of your work with you.

• 37:59Susan David?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:59Lewis Howes?

  So all of your messages, this conversation, your book. It's for whatever is gone.

• 38:03Susan David?

  Yeah.

• 38:04Lewis Howes?

  It's not available anymore.

• 38:05Susan David?

  Yeah.

• 38:05Lewis Howes?

  But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world. Three things you know to be true. From your life, your experiences, your wisdom. What would you say are those three truths for you? Before the interview continues, if you feel like you're not living your most authentic life, not leaning into your purpose and not living the life that your future self would be extremely proud of. I've written a new book called The Greatness Mindset, and I think you're gonna love this. Through powerful stories, science-backed strategies, and step-by-step guidance, The Greatness Mindset will help you overcome all the different challenges in your life to design the life of your dreams and then turn it into your reality. Make sure to click the link below in the description to get your copy today. Okay, let's get back to this video.

• 38:48Susan David?

  I would love to capture the three truths in things that feel practical for people. I think one of the truths is that for every person listening, it doesn't matter if you're thirty or forty or fifty, for every person listening, there is a child inside of you. There is a five-year-old, and that five-year-old is tugging at your sleeve. And that five-year-old is saying, "See me, love me, hear me, connect with me." So I think one of the truths is going to be to turn and face your five-year-old child and ask your five-year-old what it needs. Does it need spontaneity? Does it need creativity?

• 39:31Lewis Howes?

  Healing.

• 39:32Susan David?

  Yeah, one of the truths, I think, is that when we hold our child inside of us with gentleness, and we also recognize that there is, however old you are now, whether it's thirty or forty or fifty, there's someone twenty years... So there's, I'm fifty, so there's a seventy-year-old me. There's also a seventy-year-old looking back and saying, "See me, love me, do what's important." And so I think one of the truths is that we are not alone in the world. Even if we feel alone, we've got a child inside of us, and we've got an older version inside of us.

• 40:13Lewis Howes?

  That's so true.

• 40:14Susan David?

  And that if we walk the journey with both of those people holding our hands, we have an infinite source of grounding and wisdom. So I think that for me is...

• 40:28Lewis Howes?

  That's so beautiful.

• 40:28Susan David?

  Is one of the truths.

• 40:29Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 40:31Susan David?

  I think another truth is um that there is a mythology that being compassionate towards yourself is about being weak and lazy. It's like letting yourself off the hook. It's about lying to yourself. And when we think about a little child in a restaurant running away from its parents and looking back to make sure that the parents are there. It's the knowledge that the child has that his parents are there, that if something goes wrong, that they'll step in. It's that knowledge that actually allows the child to explore the restaurant and to learn and grow. And so I think a second truth is that self compassion is

• 41:13Susan David?

  doing for ourselves what we see with that child and the parents. And what I mean by that is it's when you are kind to yourself that you actually, it's when you have your own back that you're actually more likely to take risks, to learn, to grow and be vulnerable. And so I think a truth is the truth that self compassion is the cornerstone to thriving and resilience. And then I think that the third truth is um a difficult truth, which is before my father died, it was, I was five years old.

• 41:57Susan David?

  And my father died ten years later when, when I was fifteen. And when I was little, I would go into my father and my mom's bedroom. And at five years, years old, a lot of kids become aware of their own mortality. So they start to recognize that one day their parents won't be there. And I would find my way into my parents' bed, night after night, after night, after night, after night, much to their like dismay. And I would cry and I would say to my dad, Daddy, promise me you'll never die.

• 42:29Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 42:30Susan David?

  And this was ten years before my dad was diagnosed with cancer, ten years. And I used to say, Daddy, promise me you'll never die. Daddy, promise me you'll never die.

• 42:40Susan David?

  And my father could have done the forced false positivity, just be grateful for the time we've got together, he could have done that, but he chose not to. He could have buffered me from the truth, but he chose not to. And what he said to me is, Suzy, we all die.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 42:57Susan David?

  It's normal to be scared.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 43:00Susan David?

  And there was what I understood as a truth of the way that he was guiding me through those long, dark nights is he was saying to me that courage is not an absence of fear.

• 43:12Susan David?

  Courage is fear walking. Courage is about being able to hold your fear, your change, your concern, your sadness, your whatever it is in one hand, and to move forward with your values in the other. Courage is not the absence of fear. And I think for me, it was very powerful because in a world that tells us to do away with fear, in a world that says, oh, you know, even in a pandemic, look for the silver lining, never mind we in the shadow of illness and death, there is actually profound resilience by being

• 43:57Susan David?

  able to walk into the future, holding both, holding both your fear and holding your courage because that is what life is asking of us. Every day, life is saying, are you agile? And it's, and it's born of a correspondence with your own heart.

• 44:16Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing. Feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy,

• 44:59Lewis Howes?

  and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.