‘The Pitt’ Season 2 Finale, ‘Top Chef’ S23E6, and ‘Bandi’

Chris and Andy talk about the buzz out of CinemaCon (3:19) and the news that the next season of ‘The White Lotus’ is taking place in Cannes (8:14). Next, they talk about ‘Bandi,’ a Netflix crime series from the creator of ‘The Bureau’ (18:48). Then they discuss the Season 2 finale of ‘The Pitt’ (29:31). Later, they react to ‘Top Chef’ Season 23, Episode 6 (60:54). Finally, The Watch: After Dark (01:08:47). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Watch and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Additional Video Supervision: Sarah Reddy Order and it will come. Like today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:05Speaker 00

  I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk, now!

• 1:11Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com. And joining me in the studio, now his day shift has ended, it's Andy Greenwald!

• 1:24Andy Greenwald?

  How are you?

• 1:24Chris Ryan?

  Good, brother. It's been a minute.

• 1:26Andy Greenwald?

  You're back.

• 1:27Chris Ryan?

  I am back, yeah. I was in San Francisco, I was in Denver. I've seen the West.

• 1:31Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, what do you think?

• 1:32Chris Ryan?

  We're all doing great.

• 1:34Andy Greenwald?

  This is breaking news.

• 1:35Chris Ryan?

  Socially, economically, everything is solid.

• 1:38Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, good. Air travel, I've heard, was good.

• 1:39Chris Ryan?

  You know, honestly, it wasn't that bad. They're keeping it together everywhere. Denver Airport, did not see any Illuminati there. It's supposedly the headquarters.

• 1:48Andy Greenwald?

  Were you doing your research for Paradise Season 3?

• 1:50Chris Ryan?

  I was.

• 1:52Andy Greenwald?

  Did you see the horse?

• 1:54Chris Ryan?

  The horse?

• 1:55Andy Greenwald?

  The demon horse outside of the airport?

• 1:56Chris Ryan?

  No, that's the thing is like, none of this, all I noted about the Denver Airport is, I think it could be closer to Denver. Because in between Denver and the airport, it's just like a lot of Costcos. I didn't see much that was like, well, can't have a plane land here.

• 2:09Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 2:10Chris Ryan?

  But yeah, other than that, Denver, lovely place.

• 2:13Andy Greenwald?

  This is your note? You go to the CEO of Costco and tell him he has to move his five outlet stores.

• 2:19Chris Ryan?

  I don't think that Costco has been there for like 120 years. You know what I mean? Like, it seemed like a pretty new build.

• 2:24Andy Greenwald?

  You don't think it's a landmark?

• 2:25Chris Ryan?

  No. It's wonderful to see you. I haven't seen you in a while.

• 2:29Andy Greenwald?

  I know, I've changed.

• 2:30Chris Ryan?

  How have you changed?

• 2:31Andy Greenwald?

  You're gonna find out over the course of this hour.

• 2:33Chris Ryan?

  I have some news and stuff for you, like, from the television and entertainment world, but I wanted to just kind of fill you out.

• 2:38Andy Greenwald?

  Did you say what we're gonna do? We're gonna do?

• 2:39Chris Ryan?

  Hey, we're gonna do the pit finale, obviously. Welcome to where that happens. And also, we're gonna talk about Top Chef. We're also gonna talk about an out-of-nowhere appearance of a new series from Eric Rochant, who is responsible for one of our favorite TV shows of all time.

• 2:58Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 2:58Chris Ryan?

  Le Bureau. The Bureau, the French spy drama. He has a new show on Netflix. I had no fair, no fair warning, no, no heads up. I just saw that it was trending on Netflix, that it was in the top 10. Then I checked our email inbox. There were a couple of like, dude, is there a new show from Eric Rochant? I did a little bit of digging into this. It's an interesting story, but we can get to that.

• 3:22Andy Greenwald?

  Bande.

• 3:23Chris Ryan?

  It's called Bande. It's on Netflix. And...

• 3:25Andy Greenwald?

  And we should also say at the top, we are going to cover two buzzed-about new series on Monday.

• 3:32Chris Ryan?

  Which are Margot's Got Money Problems.

• 3:35Andy Greenwald?

  And Boof. It's the French adaptation of Beef.

• 3:38Chris Ryan?

  Can I tell you?

• 3:39Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 3:39Chris Ryan?

  Beef's getting, Beef's getting grilled.

• 3:43Andy Greenwald?

  That sounds delicious.

• 3:43Chris Ryan?

  The critics do not like Beef.

• 3:45Andy Greenwald?

  They, really?

• 3:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:47Andy Greenwald?

  It was aged too long?

• 3:49Chris Ryan?

  I will, I mean, there's some diversity of opinion, but, uh, and that's what this country is all about, you know?

• 3:54Andy Greenwald?

  You learned that in your travels of the West.

• 3:57Chris Ryan?

  But it's largely being disliked, being panned.

• 4:01Andy Greenwald?

  Wow.

• 4:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Huh. How do you feel about that? Do you still take critical... Critical consensus as like a directional for you?

• 4:09Andy Greenwald?

  No, I do that with NFL draft coverage, but I do not do that.

• 4:12Chris Ryan?

  I was gonna ask you about this.

• 4:14Andy Greenwald?

  We could save that for After Dark if you want.

• 4:15Chris Ryan?

  Well, we could save it. Okay, let's save it for After Dark.

• 4:17Andy Greenwald?

  I have a lot of draft thoughts.

• 4:18Chris Ryan?

  My big television headline, obviously CinemaCon this week, so there's a lot of movie news. I have mixed feelings about CinemaCon. Very happy that Sean and Amanda are there. I'm honestly a little bit jealous.

• 4:28Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 4:28Chris Ryan?

  I don't know if I'd want to be in Vegas for four days, but it is cool that they get to see stuff. On the other hand.

• 4:34Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 4:35Chris Ryan?

  I don't know if I want to digest movies that like, here's a sneak seven minutes of The Odyssey. See you in three months.

• 4:41Andy Greenwald?

  Well, there's also, is there any world in which you are shown the first 10 minutes of apparently the Saving Private Ryan-esque opening of Dune 3?

• 4:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:51Andy Greenwald?

  And you're like, it's kind of mid. Like, it's designed to make people insane.

• 4:56Chris Ryan?

  The flip of that being like, now I'll see it. Okay, you guys got me. So I, I think out of my feeling of inadequacy of not being there.

• 5:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 5:07Chris Ryan?

  I'm also like, it's not for me. I wouldn't do it anyway, even if they invited me.

• 5:11Andy Greenwald?

  I invented that move.

• 5:12Chris Ryan?

  Um, but there's, you know, obviously a bunch of stuff coming out of it. Uh, Dune 3, The Odyssey screened some stuff. Sounds like it went very well. Uh, I saw that the Thomas Crown affair, some footage from that was played. Uh, the Michael B. Jordan remake of that.

• 5:27Andy Greenwald?

  Starring your Maxima, Adrian Ariana.

• 5:30Chris Ryan?

  Uh, which is not Maxima.

• 5:33Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's Wonder Woman.

• 5:34Chris Ryan?

  It sounds like it's gonna be Wonder Woman.

• 5:36Andy Greenwald?

  Van is gonna comment and be like, get off my corner again, but I'm pretty sure.

• 5:41Chris Ryan?

  Um, I was thinking, I have to go to New York soon.

• 5:44Andy Greenwald?

  You are just a man on the move.

• 5:45Chris Ryan?

  And I was thinking of seeing, uh, Jean Grey, AKA CDC.

• 5:50Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 5:51Chris Ryan?

  In, uh, Romeo and Juliet.

• 5:52Andy Greenwald?

  I thought she was in London. I think that's in London.

• 5:54Chris Ryan?

  I thought it was in Broadway.

• 5:56Andy Greenwald?

  Well.

• 5:56Chris Ryan?

  Well, we'll find out when I show up at that really reasonably priced theater. And I'm like, one ticket for Romeo and Juliet, please.

• 6:04Andy Greenwald?

  Maybe you could watch it. You know, they have that thing in some cities where they have like the, like the, the camera that's on in another city.

• 6:10Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:10Andy Greenwald?

  Maybe they could do that for the West End.

• 6:12Chris Ryan?

  Really expensive Broadway tickets.

• 6:14Andy Greenwald?

  If you just peer into it, you could watch Paddington the Musical.

• 6:17Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 6:18Andy Greenwald?

  Somewhere in South Street.

• 6:19Chris Ryan?

  And then I'll go to London to watch Burnthall on Dog Day.

• 6:21Andy Greenwald?

  Might improve it.

• 6:22Chris Ryan?

  Uh, I have one or two TV oriented news bits for you, but did you want to say anything about the CinemaCon news?

• 6:29Andy Greenwald?

  Do you have any advance, again, based on nothing that we've seen, but that apparently they did screen a trailer or some footage of Tom Cruise's return to capital A acting?

• 6:38Chris Ryan?

  My only advanced knowledge about it is what Sean tweeted.

• 6:41Andy Greenwald?

  Right?

• 6:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:43Andy Greenwald?

  Is this, is this like the second screen experience where you want people to go to Twitter to see?

• 6:46Chris Ryan?

  No, I just like, I, like Sean's tweet kind of said it all. It was like, it seems like Tom Cruise is playing Jerry Jones, the Dallas Cowboys owner, in a movie directed by Michael Bay. And I was like, well, that's going to take me a couple of weeks to process.

• 7:02Andy Greenwald?

  To kind of parse.

• 7:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 7:04Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, there was that.

• 7:04Chris Ryan?

  Um, and then, so I think there's like that. And then what was the other one? Oh, for me personally, the most exciting news is that Gareth Evans, who did the Raid movies, is directing a remake of A Cult Is My Passport, which is a Japanese Yakuza crime film. And

• 7:22Andy Greenwald?

  Have you seen that film?

• 7:23Chris Ryan?

  No, Sean said that it looked like John Woo meets, uh, like a set in Detroit.

• 7:29Andy Greenwald?

  I feel like you're going to be first in line.

• 7:30Chris Ryan?

  I'm excited for that.

• 7:31Andy Greenwald?

  I also have some breaking news.

• 7:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:33Andy Greenwald?

  Sadie Sink is currently starring at the Harold Pinter Theater on the West End in London.

• 7:37Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 7:38Andy Greenwald?

  So I'd like, I just wonder, would you like to revise your earlier comment in which you said, and I'm just paraphrasing, I have to be in New York soon to see Sadie Sink.

• 7:45Chris Ryan?

  Be in New York soon, period. And while I'm there, I just didn't say while I'm there. I thought I might check in. My initial idea, we had talked about going to see Dog Day.

• 7:54Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. Uh, I'm. I want to see Giant, too.

• 7:57Chris Ryan?

  You know what? I'm not a doll guy. Everybody's like, and then Giant opens. And I'm just not a role doll guy.

• 8:02Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think, I don't want to burst your bubble here.

• 8:04Chris Ryan?

  Role doll like.

• 8:05Andy Greenwald?

  It's a movie about a raging anti-Semite. So I don't think you should be like, big doll guy. Can't wait to see how his legacy has been protected on stage.

• 8:13Chris Ryan?

  But I just mean like. Getting under the hood there is not, is not in the top 100 things I want to pay $300 for.

• 8:20Andy Greenwald?

  Do you not see Hamlet because you're not a big Danish monarchy guy?

• 8:23Chris Ryan?

  Come on, bro. That's not the same thing.

• 8:24Andy Greenwald?

  It's not the same thing, but like-

• 8:25Chris Ryan?

  They're not like, yo, this is as good as Hamlet.

• 8:27Andy Greenwald?

  But I think that there's a part of you that's worried that there's going to be a chocolate factory onstage or a couple Oompa Loompas telling you half the story.

• 8:33Chris Ryan?

  That was, that crossed my mind.

• 8:35Andy Greenwald?

  I know. There's no giant beach.

• 8:36Chris Ryan?

  Who's playing it? Is it Lithgow?

• 8:37Andy Greenwald?

  Lithgow. My colleague.

• 8:39Chris Ryan?

  Your boy.

• 8:41Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. That guy has a lot of energy. I would just say that if I had spent nine months filming a massive television show, I'd take a rest.

• 8:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:49Andy Greenwald?

  And I'm a lot younger than him.

• 8:50Chris Ryan?

  That's true.

• 8:50Andy Greenwald?

  And our, our friend Aya Cash is in it.

• 8:52Chris Ryan?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 8:53Andy Greenwald?

  It's really good.

• 8:53Chris Ryan?

  That's cool.

• 8:53Andy Greenwald?

  I don't know why we're doing theater advertising before we talk about the pit.

• 8:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:57Andy Greenwald?

  I just, I just really feel like there's a little more meat on the bone of the, you announcing to your wife and colleagues that you must travel to New York to see Sadie Sink make her Shakespeare debut.

• 9:08Chris Ryan?

  Look, man, I'm just, I'm just trying to figure out where you're at, so I'm throwing a lot of stuff up at the wall.

• 9:12Andy Greenwald?

  You're liking where you're finding me.

• 9:13Chris Ryan?

  Hey, they announced what's happening on The White Lotus this next season, and I just thought I'd mention to you, uh, season four will take place during the Cannes Film Festival.

• 9:22Andy Greenwald?

  Love it.

• 9:23Chris Ryan?

  Uh, I think they're gonna do some shooting there. That was some of the words, which is coming up in a couple of weeks.

• 9:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 9:30Chris Ryan?

  Uh, they're shooting, they're currently in production. I believe it did start production, and it is going to be the first season of White Lotus that takes place at two White Lotus properties.

• 9:39Andy Greenwald?

  Oh. The White Lotus High.

• 9:41Chris Ryan?

  One in Saint-Tropez and one at the Quaset in Cannes. Have you ever been to the South of France?

• 9:47Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, yes, I have. Thank you for asking.

• 9:49Chris Ryan?

  Uh, what was your take? And what year was it when you were there?

• 9:51Andy Greenwald?

  My take?

• 9:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:55Andy Greenwald?

  A model for American-

• 9:56Chris Ryan?

  Well, I don't have to-

• 9:57Andy Greenwald?

  Now, now that-

• 9:58Chris Ryan?

  There's a ceiling on how much White Lotus, like, I can talk about.

• 10:01Andy Greenwald?

  Now that urbanism has fallen, the real model for how our society should live is Provence. Okay? That's my take.

• 10:09Chris Ryan?

  I had this-

• 10:10Andy Greenwald?

  It's, it's very, very beautiful and the beaches are cold.

• 10:13Chris Ryan?

  Were you in Cannes? Where were you?

• 10:14Andy Greenwald?

  I was not in Cannes. I was-

• 10:15Chris Ryan?

  Were you, were you doing work for the British government? Why are you obscuring where you were?

• 10:20Andy Greenwald?

  No, you, you fly to Nice and then you do a little traveling along the coast.

• 10:23Chris Ryan?

  I didn't fly to Nice. I took a train.

• 10:25Andy Greenwald?

  Wow.

• 10:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 10:26Andy Greenwald?

  Well, okay, Joe Biden. How was that for you?

• 10:28Chris Ryan?

  Do you think it would be funny if, like, we just, all J.D. Vance did for the rest of his term, uh, was go to different places in the world and fuck things up by, like, trying to, like, do the opposite?

• 10:41Andy Greenwald?

  I think that would be, I mean, funny is doing a lot of work there.

• 10:43Chris Ryan?

  No, I don't mean wars and stuff. I mean, like, the Cannes Film Festival. Where he, like, came up on stage and did a talk and he's like, here's the reason why.

• 10:51Andy Greenwald?

  And as Vice President of the Cannes Jury, he gives the Palme d'Or to Focker-in-law.

• 10:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 10:57Andy Greenwald?

  I, uh, I love that. I also, this is not really in our bailiwick, but I do love the fact that, uh, that Mrs. Kirk had to bail out.

• 11:08Chris Ryan?

  Erica Kirk, yes.

• 11:09Andy Greenwald?

  Of a TP, I'm more polite than you, out of a, out of a Turning Point event, and her backup plan was the Vice President of the United States?

• 11:15Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 11:16Andy Greenwald?

  So good. So good. We are doing great. Um, I think it's a beautiful place. I think it's a great, great location for the show and also a kind of a cool idea to tie it more firmly to something other than people's, you know, bettering themselves, uh, vacation.

• 11:35Chris Ryan?

  Do you think there will be any studio-esque cameos?

• 11:38Andy Greenwald?

  I did wonder about that. We are definitely in a golden age of shows suddenly all seeming to have the budget to just do a week or two in Europe.

• 11:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Well, isn't that because it's cheaper to shoot there than it is to shoot in the city of angels here?

• 11:51Andy Greenwald?

  It is, but here's a genuine production question. Like, I don't think that the studio decamped to Venice for six weeks because it was cheaper. I think they did it because they win Emmys and it's Apple and they have a blank check. But I am hearing more and more of shows that just, like, do a little splinter unit and not like a splinter unit into, um, you know, San Bernardino or something. Like, actually, they go to London to shoot the London scenes. And I don't understand how that is in any way saving money. I think it's just spending money and flashing cash, which is all right.

• 12:20Chris Ryan?

  There's been a lot of really interesting stuff on the, in the trades this week about, like, I, cause I think a lot of the producers who were at CinemaCon have been asked about, like, are you gonna do anything to save Los Angeles? And I don't know why I've been thinking about this much because I, maybe it has something to do with, like, this whole ArcLight protest that turned into a potential lawsuit that, you know, is now kind of, everybody's throwing their hands up and it's just been like, looks like that's just gonna, that landmark to cinema will just stand.

• 12:46Andy Greenwald?

  If that was Nithya's whole platform, she would win.

• 12:49Chris Ryan?

  But, uh, There's also been a lot of talk about, because I think some of the networks are in pilot season, weirdly.

• 12:56Andy Greenwald?

  They are, yeah.

• 12:56Chris Ryan?

  Like, are you gonna shoot this here? Are you gonna shoot this in LA? Will you use the studios? And a lot of non-committal, like, well, we need a federal tax break and we need, you know, rebates on above-the-line talent. And I just don't know what happened to the game I loved. You know, like, I don't know how

• 13:14Andy Greenwald?

  Are you saying like?

• 13:15Chris Ryan?

  How did they fuck this up so much that they're like, well, we can't make it unless you guys pay for Johnny Glicky to like be in the show, you know? That's his name, right?

• 13:22Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, you're good. Was that, is this like, this is just kind of a recycled NBA take that it's too international for you now?

• 13:29Chris Ryan?

  No, it's, but it's just like, I don't know why Scrubs is rebooting, the reboot of Scrubs shoots in Vancouver, like.

• 13:35Andy Greenwald?

  It does? Also, wild pronunciation there. You're still being

• 13:38Chris Ryan?

  Vancouver?

• 13:38Andy Greenwald?

  Usually.

• 13:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:39Andy Greenwald?

  I like that.

• 13:40Chris Ryan?

  Vancouver.

• 13:41Andy Greenwald?

  I think you're thinking of Van.

• 13:43Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:43Andy Greenwald?

  I think he's living rent-free in your head.

• 13:44Chris Ryan?

  He is, he is.

• 13:46Andy Greenwald?

  Does it really?

• 13:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:48Andy Greenwald?

  That's, that's pretty wild to me, because I would feel like something like a reboot, because the only thing anyone's spending money on, obviously, is what they believe to be safe bets.

• 13:59Chris Ryan?

  Procedurals.

• 13:59Andy Greenwald?

  Procedurals and reboots of sitcoms and things. And I'm not saying that Zach Braff was like turning down other offers to do this show, but I am saying that generally when people are asked to come back to fill, to fill a role that only they can play, they have enough clout to say, I would like a commute that doesn't involve a border crossing.

• 14:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, there's also just not that big of a shortage of studio space in Hollywood right now.

• 14:22Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, and we, and we are hearing like from, you know, anecdotally and from people that like people who are working on the lots, you can hear the wind rattling around in the empty offices.

• 14:33Chris Ryan?

  Johnny Carson's ghost, just.

• 14:34Andy Greenwald?

  No, that's Johnny Glicky.

• 14:35Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 14:36Andy Greenwald?

  He's like, this will be perfect. So anyway, that's cool. I, I hope White Lotus doesn't do the thing that everyone is doing again. Like, it runs through this town like a virus every few years, which is like, ah, I will, I will entertain with a withering satire of the industry I am in. I think like, we're good on that for the most part.

• 14:55Chris Ryan?

  That's true, man.

• 14:55Andy Greenwald?

  So I hope that the White Lotus doesn't go too far in that direction, but great cast, great setting, it'll be fine.

• 15:02Chris Ryan?

  And likewise, I wonder how being on Survivor will affect, you know, his, his production this year.

• 15:07Andy Greenwald?

  You'd have to weigh in on that.

• 15:08Chris Ryan?

  Well, he was, he's no longer on it, you know, on this season.

• 15:12Andy Greenwald?

  I didn't know.

• 15:13Chris Ryan?

  And, but he is jacked. Did I tell you that?

• 15:15Andy Greenwald?

  You sent me a image.

• 15:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I was like, how did he do this?

• 15:18Andy Greenwald?

  To be clear, it's not weird. Chris has sent me pictures of Mike White beachside for years. It's more of like an ongoing tracking.

• 15:25Chris Ryan?

  Tracking me.

• 15:26Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, it's not.

• 15:27Chris Ryan?

  Biohacking Mike White.

• 15:30Andy Greenwald?

  We cannot become Mike White, but we can recreate his torso in aggregate.

• 15:35Chris Ryan?

  Oh, Christ.

• 15:36Andy Greenwald?

  It's good stuff.

• 15:37Chris Ryan?

  I have a question for you.

• 15:38Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 15:40Chris Ryan?

  You jump in at any point.

• 15:41Andy Greenwald?

  No, I'm good.

• 15:43Chris Ryan?

  Taking us in different directions.

• 15:44Andy Greenwald?

  I'm great.

• 15:45Chris Ryan?

  Look me in the eye. Take, take a sip of coffee and then, and I'm going to ask the group here as well.

• 15:50Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. Yeah.

• 15:52Chris Ryan?

  Are you going to read Lena Dunham's memoir?

• 15:54Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 15:55Chris Ryan?

  Fame sick?

• 15:56Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not.

• 15:56Chris Ryan?

  Have you been intrigued by it?

• 15:59Andy Greenwald?

  Intrigued means voraciously consume all content outside of reading it?

• 16:02Chris Ryan?

  So why not read the memoir? Cause you feel like you can get, it's like reading literary criticism where you get both

• 16:07Andy Greenwald?

  I get it.

• 16:07Chris Ryan?

  The book and the theories about it.

• 16:09Andy Greenwald?

  That is a deep kicking and screaming reference and I respect it.

• 16:11Chris Ryan?

  Metropolitan.

• 16:12Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, is it?

• 16:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:13Andy Greenwald?

  Right. Sorry. I just pictured Agaman. Well, no, it's more like, I am not that interested, but I am also human.

• 16:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:20Andy Greenwald?

  It's that kind of thing. Where are you with it?

• 16:21Chris Ryan?

  I wasn't. And then I was like, I kind of would like to read about the making of Girls.

• 16:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 16:25Chris Ryan?

  It's a very specific moment in TV history. Also, just want to hear about Jemima Kirk and Zoshia Mamet living together, uh, and, and that apparently not going well. I, uh, obviously have read a lot of the, the aggregated stuff about Driver and about the, the making of the show. I don't know how much post-girls Lena Dunham I need, like

• 16:46Andy Greenwald?

  Well.

• 16:46Chris Ryan?

  in terms of like her memoir.

• 16:48Andy Greenwald?

  How much of the memoir is dedicated to directing the pilot of industry during the pandemic?

• 16:52Chris Ryan?

  That's the problem. It's like, I gotta

• 16:53Andy Greenwald?

  You don't know.

• 16:54Chris Ryan?

  Control F industry, but then it'll probably be a lot of stuff about industries.

• 16:58Andy Greenwald?

  Other industries, coal, shipping. Like, ah, I gotta read this now.

• 17:04Andy Greenwald?

  Damn it.

• 17:04Chris Ryan?

  Kaya.

• 17:05Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. Where are you, Kaya?

• 17:06Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I'm, I'm on the waitlist at my library. I'm, I'm ready to go.

• 17:10Andy Greenwald?

  So will you give us a report?

• 17:12Chris Ryan?

  Sure. My wife's doing the audiobook while she drives around.

• 17:15Andy Greenwald?

  Did Lena read her own audiobook?

• 17:16Chris Ryan?

  I think so.

• 17:17Andy Greenwald?

  It would be amazing.

• 17:18Chris Ryan?

  It would be funny if Jemima Kirk read it. And she was like, wait, that's me, mate.

• 17:23Andy Greenwald?

  That was your Jemima Kirk invitation?

• 17:25Chris Ryan?

  From Vancouver, it's Jemima Kirk.

• 17:29Andy Greenwald?

  Jemima Kirk. I thought her interview with David Marchesi in The Times this weekend was fascinating. And it does sound like for as much as, it sounds like she's in a healthier place. And certainly the perspective that she's bringing to this is on par with the kind of savage self-surgery that she's done for much of her career. There was something in the way that she was talking about what she felt she had to do and what fame did to her and what being an artist has done to her and what it continues to do that did make me feel on a human level. Because this is someone that I've met and spoken to and liked a lot. That maybe sometimes you should do something else or just direct or something like there is this constant.

• 18:14Chris Ryan?

  We never do, do we?

• 18:15Andy Greenwald?

  No, look at us. We're on camera. But I found.

• 18:18Chris Ryan?

  And I'm directing this.

• 18:19Andy Greenwald?

  You're doing great. I did find the like, the, it just felt, some of it felt really rough. And that is interesting to her to continue to mine, but I felt empathy more than lurid interest, I guess, if I'm going to be serious about it when I read it.

• 18:33Chris Ryan?

  What are you reading instead?

• 18:35Andy Greenwald?

  What am I reading instead?

• 18:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:36Andy Greenwald?

  I've got a great book, man. It's over there. I'm reading this book called Lives of the Saints by Nancy Lemon.

• 18:44Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 18:44Andy Greenwald?

  It's awesome.

• 18:45Chris Ryan?

  Is it new?

• 18:46Andy Greenwald?

  No, it's her first book. It's from the 80s, but she has a new book out also from New York Review of Books called Oyster Diaries. And she's, it's one of those things where like Jeff Dyer writes the intro and is like, "Eventually, the long arm of time returns masterpieces to print." I'm like, "Yeah, let's go."

• 18:59Chris Ryan?

  So NYRB, are you going exclusive NYRB right now after Affengers?

• 19:04Andy Greenwald?

  I'm negotiating with them. I would like to get an exclusive look. I have never more desperately begged for a brand endorsement. Like I would wear that on my uniform.

• 19:13Chris Ryan?

  Like is it Rwanda for the Sixers?

• 19:15Andy Greenwald?

  They are, yes. And they are uninterested in this kind of sponsorship right now.

• 19:21Chris Ryan?

  I don't know why.

• 19:22Andy Greenwald?

  But that's a great book so far.

• 19:23Chris Ryan?

  Why would they not be interested in you? You talk about NYRB more than you talk about like.

• 19:27Andy Greenwald?

  Because I think, you know what their, you know what I think their point is? And I don't know this because I've never spoken to the. The great men and women of NYRB.

• 19:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, the New York Review of Books, if we haven't said it.

• 19:37Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think they need to pay me because look at me.

• 19:39Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah, that's the problem.

• 19:41Andy Greenwald?

  I'm giving it away.

• 19:42Chris Ryan?

  This is the problem with influencing is you have to withhold your influence until you're paid for.

• 19:46Andy Greenwald?

  And you know me, I'm very generous with my influence.

• 19:49Chris Ryan?

  Well, uh, one thing that I feel like we can take, like, the smallest amount of credit for influencing is the fact that the Bureau has got like a degree of domestic. Look, I'm not saying that we were ever like the dudes who brought the Bureau across the pond and were like, sirs, look what we discovered.

• 20:09Andy Greenwald?

  That was our predecessors at the AMC Network.

• 20:11Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 20:12Andy Greenwald?

  Are we ready to announce or not yet?

• 20:14Chris Ryan?

  But Le Bureau, obviously Eric Roshan's spy drama from a few years ago, it's celebrating its 10th anniversary in 2025, I believe.

• 20:21Andy Greenwald?

  It did, yeah.

• 20:22Chris Ryan?

  Yes. Um, and it's still just an absolute diamond of a television show that I think about all the time is currently being remade as in an English language as the agency on Paramount Plus.

• 20:34Andy Greenwald?

  Which is a sign of a great source material where I'm enjoying watching the show again in English.

• 20:38Chris Ryan?

  Absolutely. I can't wait for the second season. I think it will improve on the first. And he's got a new show on Netflix. Now, I had initially started this as this is the problem with Netflix. They don't tell us about these things, like where, where was the trailer? Where was the drumbeat of from the critically acclaimed creator of Le Bureau? Did a little bit of reading into this, although it was hard to come by. And it does seem like Roshan has had, he's got a production company called Maui. And over the last couple of years has shepherded or, you know, kind of co-created or co-executive produced or whatever. Several shows, some of which like there's one that's on Disney Plus, I believe.

• 21:20Chris Ryan?

  And that like it's, this is not like the first thing he has done, you know, since the Bureau went off the air or anything.

• 21:26Andy Greenwald?

  Just, just to interject, like, I do think the reason we're talking about him is because it's for the same reason we talked about Pluribus. In the sense that like when people who have created truly great art within this medium that we cover, do the next thing, it's worth our attention and time.

• 21:39Chris Ryan?

  And then, uh, so I, like I said, I got an email in our inbox about Bandi. I saw that it was the number seven and now number eight show on Netflix. I was sort of surprised that I hadn't heard about what it was. Doing a little bit of research into it, it's created by Roshan and his daughter.

• 21:55Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, Capucine.

• 21:56Chris Ryan?

  Capucine. And it is.

• 21:59Chris Ryan?

  In his own words, self-consciously, a effort on his part to make something in the top boy Peaky Blinders Netflix genre.

• 22:08Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 22:08Chris Ryan?

  You know, of sprawling crime drama, intergenerational, one family moving through, like, a cityscape. So, obviously, Top Boy's set in London, Peaky Blinders is set in Birmingham. This is set in Martinique and is about the La Fleur family, a rather large family in Martinique.

• 22:27Andy Greenwald?

  Eleven kids.

• 22:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 22:28Andy Greenwald?

  Raging from, like, six or seven to early twenties.

• 22:31Chris Ryan?

  Who are grappling with a family tragedy and deciding where to go with the family in terms of the legitimacy of, like, their family business. There's, like, a central kid played, um, there's a central kid named Killian, I believe.

• 22:45Andy Greenwald?

  Kiki.

• 22:46Chris Ryan?

  Kiki, who's, um, his, like, street name is Malord, uh, and he is getting into the drug business and finding out about, like, the international drug trade out of Martinique. Uh, I watched the first episode last night. You checked it out this morning. What'd you, what'd you think?

• 23:01Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I, uh, first of all, making a TV show with your daughter? Come on. Goals. That's so sweet. So I'm already all the way in.

• 23:10Chris Ryan?

  What if you were like, "I don't like this kind of nepotism, and I, I won't even watch the show"?

• 23:17Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, what if I was like that? Would you want me to do the rest of the show in character?

• 23:21Chris Ryan?

  No, but, like, if it was his son, would you be like, "God, I'm not so, I'm not so into this"?

• 23:25Andy Greenwald?

  I did just feel my whole self go cold, just completely lost interest. Um, I found, well, big picture, I think, incredibly exciting anytime Netflix's budget and cameras go to a place that we don't spend a lot of time.

• 23:39Chris Ryan?

  Absolutely.

• 23:40Andy Greenwald?

  And so the show looks beautiful, it's in Martinique, a place that I would like to spend more time in, and it is taking us in backstreets and homes and bars and...

• 23:52Andy Greenwald?

  Just bringing a place to life in the way that international crime fiction can do and international crime television can do that I found really, really exciting. I think they've managed to find some really exciting charismatic actors, at least even through just one episode.

• 24:06Chris Ryan?

  Many non-professional actors.

• 24:08Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, and I am intrigued. I would say that for people who are hearing all of our raves about it, I would reset expectations just to say that one of the things about La Bureau that was really, really remarkable over time is Rashant's, again, not unlike, this is the one thing that I would compare it to Vince Gilligan, very, very interested in minutia and bureaucracy and process. And so the show is very A to B to C to D about introducing this huge swath of characters in a place we've never been, and a lot of the potential is ahead. So it really does a yeoman-like job of setting the groundwork for something that it could be interesting.

• 24:48Andy Greenwald?

  But I'll say that I didn't find this episode to be like, I didn't feel energized and exhilarated at the end of it. There's not a lot of wit or surprise or verve. What there is is a lot of solid story building and a lot of promising leads and a canvas that I would like to see him fill.

• 25:07Chris Ryan?

  In the first episode, if you watch a lot of criminal underworld TV, or even a fair amount, like a lot of very familiar meets, you know, a lot of like, one brother who is going one direction and another brother who's going another, there's like the sort of mysterious drug lord who takes my lord under his wing, there is, you know, a lot of, just basically like, you know, mechanics that you would be familiar with if you've watched like Power, if you've watched a Top Boy, or whatever it is. I think that the thing that jumped out at me wasn't really, and this isn't really a critique because I think it's a really interesting gambit, but I do think that working with a lot of non-professional actors puts the show at a little bit of a disadvantage if it's also going to be a little bit cliche in its story.

• 25:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 25:52Chris Ryan?

  Now, that being said, like, if you watch the first episode of The Bureau, you might say like, this is a lot like a lot of spy shows I've seen before, and obviously it changed. So I'm going to keep checking out episodes of Bandi, but yeah, it was a little bit of a letdown in so much as I had five minutes of knowing it existed before I checked it out and then was like, oh, okay, maybe this isn't like on the level of La Bureau yet or whatever, and maybe that's not the intention.

• 26:17Andy Greenwald?

  You know, it also is a show, you know, the other thing that we might be responding to slightly. I think everything we've said about it is probably that's the top line headline and is valid. But I do think that we are still, despite our interest in international shows, we are increasingly unused to seeing pilots that don't have to make the case for themselves within the first 50 minutes.

• 26:37Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 26:37Andy Greenwald?

  This is a episode of television that was clearly written, knowing there were going to be seven more and potentially 20 to 30 to 40 more due to his stature or due to his confidence. I mean, it's not, it hasn't been renewed, but I'm, but then what pilots are required to do these days in this country, in this industry, is set off the entire sky full of fireworks.

• 26:57Chris Ryan?

  Blow people's minds.

• 26:58Andy Greenwald?

  Like the pit.

• 26:59Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 26:59Andy Greenwald?

  Had to do last night.

• 27:00Chris Ryan?

  Like Paradise had to do.

• 27:01Andy Greenwald?

  And, uh, yes, and then it leaves everyone who's making the show being like, well, now what's the series?

• 27:07Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 27:07Andy Greenwald?

  Because I burned it all in the first 56 minutes. This show does not burn it all in the first 56 minutes, and I respect that.

• 27:14Chris Ryan?

  Um, I was gonna mention that there is still talk that, uh, he is going to return to the world of espionage in a 2025 interview. I read with Rashant, he was talking about a show called Secret World, I believe, that he was working on, which was going to be about agents from five different countries. But he spoke very eloquently in this interview about how the paradigm of spy fiction and spy, spy stories has essentially shifted and is changing almost faster than a TV show can capture.

• 27:48Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 27:49Chris Ryan?

  And that, you know, like essentially, you know, if you went back six months and were like, what's the state of AI last, you know, in October versus today, it would be so different. And even the global, you know, the, the global stage and, and the changes that have happened in the Middle East, like it would be very difficult to document that or to reflect that in a TV show. So I think he's maybe not struggling with it, but is, is adjusting to it.

• 28:14Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, it was interesting, I think now five, six years ago, he had a pilot.

• 28:19Chris Ryan?

  The China room, right?

• 28:19Andy Greenwald?

  It was called The Chinese Room, um, that was going to be a return to the spy world.

• 28:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:24Andy Greenwald?

  And it didn't get made for whatever reason.

• 28:25Chris Ryan?

  Was it Peacock?

• 28:26Andy Greenwald?

  I, I think that, I'm not sure if he was ever set up at Peacock, but I know it was being passed around.

• 28:31Chris Ryan?

  But the script was floating around, yeah.

• 28:32Andy Greenwald?

  And, um, one of the reasons he was doing it is because, you know, you could see in each season of Le Bureau, he was like, the aperture kept getting wider as he was both realizing and engaging with changing, shifting tides in the world.

• 28:45Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:46Andy Greenwald?

  The antagonists kept changing and who is actually behind it and who is ascendant in the world and he hadn't really dealt with China's role in global espionage.

• 28:53Chris Ryan?

  No, I mean, the brilliance of the show is to interconnect like Russia and Syria and Iran. Yeah.

• 28:59Andy Greenwald?

  So I hope we hear more from him. I think that to that point and more from him in the spy space, but to that point, this is a subtle detail, but one thing that I appreciated in the Bandi pilot is that the fact that all characters have cell phones is a part of the story in a way that doesn't feel intrusive.

• 29:16Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 29:17Andy Greenwald?

  Time and time again, you will see pilots or probably movies too, where the writers are like, I yearn for a world where characters weren't constantly on their phones. Thus, I will create it on screen, except for the time my one character has to call the other character.

• 29:32Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 29:33Andy Greenwald?

  And so you feel that artificiality. Sometimes it can be fine and you don't notice it, but I, it's important, I think, to notice when it's done relatively casually and normally and easily.

• 29:44Chris Ryan?

  It feels very baked into the world. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for? That's when Prime's same day delivery has your back. Getting you exactly what you need, fast and reliably, so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit amazon.com/prime to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas. Terms apply. That's it for news. The Madison has been renewed for a third season. I thought I mentioned that to you.

• 30:24Andy Greenwald?

  Congratulations on your lobbying work behind the scenes on that.

• 30:27Chris Ryan?

  Yes, K Street really came through for me.

• 30:29Andy Greenwald?

  T S Street.

• 30:31Chris Ryan?

  T S Street. Let's get to the pit finale.

• 30:33Andy Greenwald?

  I think we should. It's a pretty big show.

• 30:34Chris Ryan?

  One of the reasons why I wasn't tripping over myself to get to it is I loved it, but it also felt a bit like... It was reiterating some of the stuff that had been saying over the last three weeks rather than breaking any new ground, probably for the best. I don't know that ending on a cliffhanger or, you know, I don't know how many more fireworks this this show could have.

• 30:55Andy Greenwald?

  Literally.

• 30:57Chris Ryan?

  Let's start with Robbie's darkness, which has been obviously a growing concern over the course of the whole season, but especially in the last couple of weeks with his conversations with Dana, especially with Duke, and in this episode with Abbott concerning whether or not he is considering taking his own life, what the purpose of this quote unquote spirit quest is going to be, his helmetless trip to the Dakotas. I thought this was an interesting place to start with this would just be, did you note or feel like he changed, he moved the goalposts a little bit in what he was saying is to Duke, previous week, he had said, everything in the hospital makes sense to me. It's everything

• 31:40Chris Ryan?

  outside of the hospital that I can't deal with.

• 31:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 31:43Chris Ryan?

  Then to Abbott, he was like, every time somebody dies in this hospital, a piece of myself or a piece of my soul dies too.

• 31:49Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 31:50Chris Ryan?

  So what was your read on that, if you noticed it? And where are you at with where Robbie ends?

• 31:57Andy Greenwald?

  He also says, and I thought this was worth noting too, he says that, you know, every good thing he's ever done for the world.

• 32:03Chris Ryan?

  Is in the hospital.

• 32:04Andy Greenwald?

  Was in this hospital. I thought, well, broadly speaking, I really love the finale, and I really love engaging with the show, both for what's on the screen and what I can't help but kind of try to mind read are the logistics and conversations and decision making that is happening behind the scenes in terms of what to push forward and what to pull back on. And this shows, I think, pretty active engagement due to its quick turnaround time with its with its audience and knowing what they might expect and what we how they could still surprise us.

• 32:36Andy Greenwald?

  Broadly speaking, it is a bold gambit to build a season this way. That having educated us on one season about the craziest, most violent day in the history of the emergency department, probably, condition us for something similar and then kind of have that not really be the case. It's a day from hell for any number of reasons, but the long night of the soul is really internal and it's Robbie's dark night of the soul. One of the downstream effects of that decision is that as things get quieter and we get closer and more tied to Robbie's head, we start to notice some things, good and bad. And one of the potentially bad things is that he does have a version of the same conversation two to four times.

• 33:18Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 33:20Andy Greenwald?

  I couldn't help but notice that. You also couldn't help but notice then that the show kind of asserted the primacy of this character, which is not a surprise and actually works for the show. If you watch the show under the impression that it is somehow an ensemble piece, I advise you to take a look at the series' season posters for season one and two, both of which are pretty much one man's face.

• 33:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:42Andy Greenwald?

  But the downstream effects of that is that some characters get nice little buttons on their season and some closure. Some characters get used for shock value, not in a bad way, again, but like, what's her name, checking out early for boundaries and...

• 33:58Chris Ryan?

  Joy.

• 33:59Andy Greenwald?

  Joy checking out early for boundaries, or Jessie getting arrested by ICE. But then you also get things, and we could probably put a pin in this and come back to it, but Dr. Mohan's goodbye essentially being all about Robbie.

• 34:10Chris Ryan?

  My one note about that was lovely scene, if they had not made a giant public announcement that she was leaving the show, I would not have thought of that as her last scene.

• 34:17Andy Greenwald?

  Exactly. Ultimately, I really, really respect the gambit, what they did with the season, and I thought they landed it in a way that felt slightly surprising, but ultimately right. And... The reason I say that is that when we live like in our real lives, even those of us who are anxious and have like prone to catastrophizing thoughts, the worst, worst things, the most violent, horrible, hideous things often don't happen. And what you have to deal with is the margins and dealing with what your day to day is. The nature of the show means that at least one to 10 times per episode, the worst, most hideous, violent things happen. In the, you know, in the margins on the operating table or what have you.

• 34:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 35:00Andy Greenwald?

  So what the show can do then is force Robbie to live with the margins of that. Talk about other people's death and what it's doing to him. Flirt with the idea of driving a motorcycle off a cliff like a buffalo, but really be stuck with himself and his best intentions, caring for a baby and his worst intentions. Yelling at Dr. Alashimi.

• 35:19Chris Ryan?

  So to your point about it being the Robbie show towards the end of the season, I thought that that's why the Alashimi confrontation was better than just reiterating her or further explaining her.

• 35:35Chris Ryan?

  Her situation.

• 35:36Andy Greenwald?

  Her condition.

• 35:36Chris Ryan?

  Her condition, which is she has long had, she has historically had seizures, but through treatment has been able to get them under control, but experiences two on this, her first day as the senior attending at the ED to take over for Robbie and his absence.

• 35:50Andy Greenwald?

  The implication for that is that we saw at least one of them on camera with the baby.

• 35:54Chris Ryan?

  One with baby Jane Doe and that she had one when she was looking at the kid who needed to be.

• 36:00Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, she, yes, and he caught that one.

• 36:02Chris Ryan?

  And he caught that one and kind of like sharks around the ED until he can get to the bottom of it. But it's her confession to him. It's her showing him her, her medical history. And he's just like, Brian, is this you? And then they have this nice conversation at first, although Robbie is starting to be like, it seems like you're trying to talk me into how this is all okay. And at the end of the day, she's like, so we're good. My neurologist said, I need to just try this different medication. And he's like, we're not good. You can't, you can't be the attending here if you can't do procedures because you can't always have another attending with you, which is now explains maybe why she was like, I've decided we need two, two seniors on, on staff all the time.

• 36:45Chris Ryan?

  During their big fight that they have in that moment, she says like, "You're making this all about you." Like, "You're so narcissistic, essentially." And this is kind of an interesting thing that's happened over the last couple of weeks, and I can't help but also bring in a little bit of the outer pit discourse about like-

• 37:02Andy Greenwald?

  I'm ready.

• 37:02Chris Ryan?

  Robbie as a good or a bad man or a boss, because I don't really let that affect how I watch the show at all. But it's, the show's right on the line of giving us enough of other people's opinions about Robbie within the world of the show to have some distance from Robbie as a character while we watch it. Versus, "We're just watching this guy and it's like, if it's just more guys like Robbie were in charge of the world, we'd just all be a better place." And you know, so a couple of people are like, "You're a dick," or "You need help," or "You're a narcissist." But the show is about this guy holding a baby at the end of it and being like, you know what I mean?

• 37:42Chris Ryan?

  Like, it's about Robbie, so it's like, right up against like, whose POV are we seeing this guy through?

• 37:49Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's a really good point to make, but I think the show is more subtle than critics might suggest. In, I mean, it's certainly not subtle in some ways when it does direct to camera address. But-

• 38:02Chris Ryan?

  I don't know if you know this-

• 38:03Andy Greenwald?

  So Robbie says, "The only things I can control are in this room," and that the human stuff is impossible for him. We see it in practice when a pregnant woman arrives in preeclampsia and distress and says, "I don't want any medical care, I don't want any medical intervention, here's what I believe, here's what I want." And then as soon as she starts seizing, the doctors conduct her, you know? Which is not presented as like, a great outcome, it's an incredibly tense and dramatic scene, but it is an example-

• 38:33Chris Ryan?

  That scene is crazy.

• 38:34Andy Greenwald?

  So crazy. And we should talk about it, just on its own merits, but I'm just saying, the show knows what it's doing when it gives them a chance for things to get easy for them when it gets hard. And the show is also being its best self, I think, when it ends with Robbie holding the baby-

• 38:51Chris Ryan?

  Pretty good.

• 38:52Andy Greenwald?

  And telling the baby that the baby, he's going to be fine, that everything's okay, and that the baby's gonna have a lot of love in her life. And I will say, this is something that I've said as a parent, I'm sure Eric Rashant has said this to Capucine, his screenwriting daughter-

• 39:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:08Andy Greenwald?

  But he doesn't know that.

• 39:09Chris Ryan?

  I've said it to Vijay Edgecombe and he doesn't know that either. You know, I was just like my son.

• 39:14Andy Greenwald?

  I think in that case, you're right. I think you have some certainty that it's gonna be fine for him. So maybe you're choosing wisely. I just mean that like that, that the illusion of control at the heart of the show is woven more subtly through the episode than I think the Viewmaxers who are just like, let's pound this.

• 39:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:33Andy Greenwald?

  Might appreciate.

• 39:34Chris Ryan?

  The subtle kind of details in Robbie's like, so here's, here's one thing that I thought was really interesting.

• 39:42Chris Ryan?

  The sort of action set piece of this episode is an emergency C-section where the lives of both the mother and the baby. You mentioned this woman who is, wants to do a wild birth.

• 39:53Andy Greenwald?

  Keep saying it.

• 39:53Chris Ryan?

  And has refused all prenatal care and doesn't want any medicine and is like ultrasounds. And Abbott asks her why, and she's like, women have been giving birth for thousands of years. And he's like, at a like 30% mortality rate. You know, that's, this is crazy. We have all this stuff for you. She starts seizing, she's pre-eclampsia.

• 40:11Andy Greenwald?

  At that point, she, it becomes full eclampsia.

• 40:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:13Andy Greenwald?

  I didn't know that.

• 40:14Chris Ryan?

  I did, neither did I, that that was a transition. And all the hitters are in the room. The night shift is, is rocking out and Robbie is brought in kind of like as the closer. Uh, Edwin Diaz coming out of the bullpen. And I thought it was interesting.

• 40:33Andy Greenwald?

  No Duran? You're not, you're keeping it, you're wearing the Phillies hat today, but you're still keeping them guessing. You are appealing to all 50 states.

• 40:39Chris Ryan?

  Uh, he comes in and he sees what's happening and he's obviously been in and out of this room. And he kind of has his own seizure. Like he has his emotional kind of like, I fucking can't make the last patient I see before God knows what happens to me.

• 40:57Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 40:58Chris Ryan?

  Is gonna be the death of a mother and/or a newborn. And he has like a moment where they're like, bro, like glove up, let's go. And then what they do is essentially the pit version of, of, of the heat bank robbery. I mean, it is the most gripping kind of, you know, stomach turning if, if you, you know, it's, it's, it's among the more visceral things that they've done on this show.

• 41:22Andy Greenwald?

  It was a masterpiece of technique.

• 41:24Chris Ryan?

  It was like, I was like, I, I forgot to breathe for two and a half minutes. It was just one of the most.

• 41:28Andy Greenwald?

  What was your apgar score after that?

• 41:31Chris Ryan?

  I was blue.

• 41:31Andy Greenwald?

  Low?

• 41:32Chris Ryan?

  I was blue. They bring McKay in. It's just an incredible scene, dude. I don't know if you were able to watch it, like.

• 41:39Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 41:40Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, no, I.

• 41:41Chris Ryan?

  As a girl dad, C-sections are cool. Yeah.

• 41:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, if it was like a nine or 12 year old, I'd be like, I can't watch this, but like.

• 41:47Chris Ryan?

  A nine year old falls in a pool, you're like, no.

• 41:50Andy Greenwald?

  It's a sliding window. You know what I mean? I care about what I care about.

• 41:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 41:53Andy Greenwald?

  That's how you feel about rookies into the second year player. You're not interested in G League development, guys.

• 41:57Chris Ryan?

  That's right. What did you think of the scene? Oh, I was just gonna say like, they, they did not put too fine a point on the fact that the very thing that Robbie is sort of saying is happening to Bron, which is you kind of are unable to do procedures, almost happens to him.

• 42:12Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I, I also just, in that moment, I, I, in that moment, when I'm just watching the technical brilliance of the people who make this show, executing something on such a high level with the choreography of the actors, the performance of the actors, the lighting, the camera movement, the stuff I usually don't even look at or care about, like the, how real does this look?

• 42:30Chris Ryan?

  The viscera, yeah.

• 42:31Andy Greenwald?

  Truly, um, was un, it was, it was unmatched. And I also really liked the way, again, like, it's just, it's just these little things that they decided to do, which is, the last two episodes, we will focus very, very intently on one horrific, potentially bad outcome, um, medical scene per episode. Last week it was Langdon resetting the guy's spine.

• 42:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 42:56Andy Greenwald?

  And this week it was, it was this birth and, look, it's a, it's a five tool player as a show. They're showing you what they can do in miniature, as well as what they've done in the past with chaos.

• 43:06Chris Ryan?

  So who do we, Ogilvy lost a patient, the teacher who was really nice.

• 43:11Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 43:12Chris Ryan?

  Louis died.

• 43:13Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 43:15Chris Ryan?

  They had a pretty good game.

• 43:17Andy Greenwald?

  Well, there's the someone lost the leg above the knee.

• 43:20Chris Ryan?

  But it could have been worse.

• 43:21Andy Greenwald?

  Could have been worse.

• 43:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:22Andy Greenwald?

  Could have been worse.

• 43:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. So your take on the day was pretty good. Good game, guys.

• 43:28Chris Ryan?

  I for for all the adversity that they faced with the digital stuff.

• 43:32Andy Greenwald?

  It's true.

• 43:32Chris Ryan?

  You know, everybody's really tired. They're charting while they're while they're working and stuff.

• 43:36Andy Greenwald?

  It's true. Well, let's talk about the show's relationship with catastrophe, because one thing that happens over time in any TV show, even not medical ones, is we just feel so close, so much empathy, so connected to characters that we really just want good outcomes for them and we want them to win. And often, shows start to service the audience as well.

• 43:56Andy Greenwald?

  I thought one of the smart things that this episode did, and I don't know, I'd be curious to ask if we get the chance to talk to Noah again, what they, how they discuss this in the in the writer's room, how much thought they give to perception. What I mean by that is, there were a number of moments in this episode where even I feel like I have a pretty good read on how the show operates, but even I am not immune to being like, Dr. Al Hashimi shouldn't be driving on a roof right now.

• 44:22Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 44:23Andy Greenwald?

  Like waiting for the

• 44:23Chris Ryan?

  This goes back to the old like Don and Sally Draper in a car and being like, please, please don't get in an accident.

• 44:28Andy Greenwald?

  It goes back further to Diana Moldauer on L.A. Law as Rosalind, whatever, stepping into an elevator shaft. You know what I mean? Like that, like there was a, and even Mohan being like, well, is that her last scene? She's standing in the ambulance bay and those Ambo drivers get a little wild. They clip the edges sometimes, wondering if that was gonna happen.

• 44:45Chris Ryan?

  I almost wondered whether or not that, like, the way that that ended left the door open for Supriya Ganesh to come back to the show.

• 44:52Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I think the doors are always open for characters on the show. Unlike ER thus far, helicopters aren't falling on them.

• 45:00Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 45:00Andy Greenwald?

  You know, like they are just medical professionals in other cities. And the show, which is very smart, can be clever about bringing people in and out for short stays, long stays, callbacks, whatever. So I think that that's always, always in play. Even this season, not really, not ultimately that important for the storyline, but something to note that they might consider again is when the night charge nurse shows up, you know, 10 a.m. as a death doula, right? Or that, you know, people have other, like Abbott, people have other jobs.

• 45:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, they have hobbies.

• 45:31Andy Greenwald?

  And they can show up as patients as well.

• 45:32Chris Ryan?

  The Al Hashimi ending note of her in her car, I thought was

• 45:38Chris Ryan?

  Very well done, and I thought that that's a character who has not been given a lot of like, room to like kind of stretch out. She's a very buttoned up character.

• 45:48Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 45:49Chris Ryan?

  And I even just like watching her like walk out with her headphones in. Like I was like, this is cool to see this moment with this person. I thought they were setting it up for Robbie finds her, her like water bottle and is gonna go like run after her and like apologizes to her at the car, or maybe she does have an episode and he saves her or whatever. So it was interesting that that was not how it ended and that's just basically like this woman at a crossroads in her life, as are many of these characters. I was gonna mention to you the, well, I want to talk about Langdon.

• 46:23Andy Greenwald?

  Orlando had a bad outcome.

• 46:26Chris Ryan?

  What happened to him?

• 46:27Andy Greenwald?

  He fell off something that was too small, potentially for what he was trying to do.

• 46:30Chris Ryan?

  Flipping about it. This is an interesting development over the second season is that, you know, from, from our Hawaiian death prayer to there's a dead guy in the waiting room and Orlando should have picked a higher place to jump from is like a little bit of a change of tone.

• 46:45Andy Greenwald?

  A little gallows humor.

• 46:46Chris Ryan?

  Uh, we talked a little bit about Mohan. I, like I said, wouldn't have known that she was leaving unless there had been fifty, five hundred articles about it.

• 46:54Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 46:55Chris Ryan?

  What do you think about the Greek chorus-ification of Whittaker, Mel, McKay and Santos? And like basically keeping them around for three episodes after their shift ends? To sit at a computer and banter, but having little to no dramatic arc for any of them. Well, other than Mel's sister, I guess.

• 47:16Andy Greenwald?

  There is, I mean, I think that's something that I would imagine they are going to try to look at in, and they're just finishing the writers' room for season three, but that they're looking at and what to do, like, Robbie is the main character of the show, and he shares that distinction a little bit, I guess, with the ED itself. And maybe Dana as one B.

• 47:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 47:37Andy Greenwald?

  There's not a lot of a story real estate to go around on this show and. To that point, making the decision that they, he's now said publicly, which is a much shorter time jump. So it does sound like they'll be going from July 4th to winter-ish.

• 47:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 47:54Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. Will allow them to pick up these characters more rapidly and thus continue a story, maybe that they've established this season. The attempts to give each one of these smaller characters some individual arc, I think was really hit or miss if we're looking back on the course of the season. I think that McKay wanting to have a personal life, great color, episode to episode. She's giving a great performance, but I don't think that really landed.

• 48:24Chris Ryan?

  Well, they're not going to go out on the date with her. So it's almost like she would have to have left at like eight o'clock and been like, I have a date tonight.

• 48:30Andy Greenwald?

  Can't do it.

• 48:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 48:31Andy Greenwald?

  Mel being forced to do a second deposition just doesn't really hit for me. You like that?

• 48:36Chris Ryan?

  Not if we're not going to see the deposition.

• 48:38Andy Greenwald?

  Also, what was the case? What are the states?

• 48:40Chris Ryan?

  It's the case from the year before where I think her and Ellis did a spinal tap. It's from season one.

• 48:48Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, it is. Okay. So maybe that's my fault that I missed it.

• 48:51Chris Ryan?

  And Ellis was like, I can't talk about what I said, but I want to tell you like you're a good doctor.

• 48:55Andy Greenwald?

  So that might come back since Ellis is now also being upstream to the day, day shift. Javadi maybe more successful because also that was the most ER in its small moments way. I think the most ER plotline because one of the challenges ER had was like, how will we keep these characters here? And her becoming an emergency mental, like emergency psychiatry.

• 49:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 49:20Andy Greenwald?

  So she's going to be on the show now. Obviously she's going to be on the show, but that locks her in.

• 49:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 49:24Andy Greenwald?

  It's like that dude, the pirates just called up and he was like, he played two games, Connor Griffin, and they're like, two games. Like he was a nine year contract.

• 49:30Chris Ryan?

  The Tigers just did that too. It's a great time to be 19 in the MLB.

• 49:34Andy Greenwald?

  That's so sick.

• 49:35Chris Ryan?

  You get eight years, 150.

• 49:36Andy Greenwald?

  Did you know that like, like, when did we start this pod? 2012? Like mid 2013, I went to Bill and I was like, lock me up. Please. 10 year deal.

• 49:46Chris Ryan?

  And he was like, no, bet on yourself.

• 49:47Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. And look where it got me. Still here waiting for that, waiting for that payday.

• 49:52Chris Ryan?

  If the rule you followed brought you back to me.

• 49:58Chris Ryan?

  Anyway.

• 50:00Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, like, the difference, I think, with someone like Whittaker is that Whittaker's role really is mini Robbie. So what Robbie does now kind of reflects on him, how he is being a doctor, how he is showing up, what he's... So it's interesting watching the show figure this out. And I genuinely don't, again, with no actual knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes, I really am exhausted by the assumptions by a rabid fandom that there's some conspiracy plot to get rid of Supriya Ganesh and Dr. Mohan. Like, sometimes characters don't take flight, and it's not about the actor. And I'm sure that people involved with the show would never blame her. It's, they couldn't find a place for this character, a place for her to go.

• 50:44Chris Ryan?

  Yes. I also, I mean, like, I enjoy the character, I enjoy the performance quite a bit. One of my least favorite things about TV shows is when they're just like, "And we've also added six more people."

• 50:55Andy Greenwald?

  Sure.

• 50:56Chris Ryan?

  And yet, we're gonna try and make room for the original six, the new six, and all the people in the background. I want to talk a little bit about Langdon, who I was a bit surprised got, like, the arc that he did this season, I suppose. And this is in relationship to the Greek chorification of those other characters that I mentioned, Santos especially, who I think was much more central to the first season, and in this season is more like, kind of like, over it, and also making a lot of jokes, but didn't really have, like, a huge moment other than her confrontation with Langdon, which I thought was quite good, but...

• 51:30Andy Greenwald?

  This karaoke erasure will not stand.

• 51:33Chris Ryan?

  Because they chickened out and didn't leave the hospital. I wanted to see them rocking out and singing.

• 51:38Andy Greenwald?

  You clearly turned off the show too fast.

• 51:40Chris Ryan?

  Did they go to karaoke after the fireworks?

• 51:41Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 51:43Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I did.

• 51:43Andy Greenwald?

  I was testing you there.

• 51:45Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah. How's karaoke? What'd she sing?

• 51:48Andy Greenwald?

  They sing "You Oughta Know."

• 51:50Chris Ryan?

  Oh, that's good.

• 51:51Andy Greenwald?

  She and Mel, rocking out on stage together.

• 51:55Andy Greenwald?

  And that's how the season is.

• 51:55Chris Ryan?

  That's just a might be, you know? That's accountability.

• 51:58Andy Greenwald?

  Listen, if the Marvel movies taught you anything, it's stay tuned through the credits. You get a little-

• 52:03Chris Ryan?

  What is it, Stinger?

• 52:04Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, it said executive producer and then, and then you heard the music.

• 52:07Chris Ryan?

  Oh, come on.

• 52:08Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, dude.

• 52:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. What do you guys want from me? I'm, I'm grinding a lot of tape here, you know?

• 52:13Andy Greenwald?

  You would have seen Conformity Gate too, if you had just kept it rolling.

• 52:16Chris Ryan?

  What's Conformity Gate?

• 52:17Andy Greenwald?

  Isn't that the, that's the Stranger Things episode that came on after the finale?

• 52:20Chris Ryan?

  Yes, well, we-

• 52:21Andy Greenwald?

  I saw it.

• 52:21Chris Ryan?

  Me and some of my large language models are working on that right now.

• 52:25Andy Greenwald?

  Some of my large language models.

• 52:28Chris Ryan?

  That's what LLM stands for, right?

• 52:29Andy Greenwald?

  Sure. Type it into Google, I dare you. Probably something quite, quite obscene. Yeah, they show karaoke.

• 52:37Chris Ryan?

  Anyway, Langdon did not get invited. He also took off, uh, setting boundaries for himself. Well, actually, he doesn't. He comes back down, has this fight with Robbie. I will say for a brief split second, I thought that dude was gonna have some, some, some dirty work in his pockets when they were like-

• 52:53Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 52:54Chris Ryan?

  Turning his pockets off, I was like-

• 52:54Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 52:55Chris Ryan?

  Does this guy have a perk? What's going on?

• 52:57Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 52:57Chris Ryan?

  Uh-

• 52:58Andy Greenwald?

  He did not.

• 52:58Chris Ryan?

  He did not. Viewer, he did not. He was clean and sober and he does his drug test. He gets a little cocky.

• 53:08Andy Greenwald?

  Pun intended.

• 53:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, he does his drug test, he goes up, he sees that Mercer lady lost her leg, but saved her life.

• 53:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 53:16Chris Ryan?

  Goes back downstairs and pops off at Robbie a little bit.

• 53:20Andy Greenwald?

  He does, he's had enough.

• 53:21Chris Ryan?

  I don't know if that's in the steps. You know what I mean? I don't know if that's, that's part of the, the program, but he is just like, you don't like, you know, you, I, I'm doing the work. I, I, I came back, I showed I belong here, but I could have paralyzed that guy. Like, I don't know what kind of teaching method this is now.

• 53:39Andy Greenwald?

  This is how you teach now, yeah.

• 53:40Chris Ryan?

  And he's like, everybody knows you're, you're on the edge and you need to get help.

• 53:45Andy Greenwald?

  You need help.

• 53:46Chris Ryan?

  I thought that was decent because one thing that you will notice if you've watched the last three episodes is that Robbie has not made much of a secret of his-

• 53:56Chris Ryan?

  Despair, you know, like he has talked to Duke about it. Dana obviously can see it, can obviously see it. If everybody's talking, you know, about this.

• 54:07Chris Ryan?

  What did you think of the Langdon arc? And what did you think of that moment with him?

• 54:09Andy Greenwald?

  I've decided to double down on my number one criticism of the show, which is that someone's got to fuck his hair up.

• 54:16Andy Greenwald?

  I, I, I've thought, I've done some time, I've done, I've done some work. I've done some reflection on how I just called that out a few weeks ago. And the reaction that got frankly, in this room, is the least important thing I could possibly care about. And I've decided it does matter. And I hope that the powers that be listen to this note, because this man just worked 15 hours through, through savage back pain, which he is treating with-

• 54:37Chris Ryan?

  And also showed up wearing a Pittsburgh Penguins hat.

• 54:40Andy Greenwald?

  Right, which would have had an effect on the, look. He, I just want to see that he's been through the day that we've seen him be through, that we've seen him go through.

• 54:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 54:50Andy Greenwald?

  Everyone else that like a little bit, they look a little bit-

• 54:52Chris Ryan?

  They look a little bit worse for wear, yeah.

• 54:54Andy Greenwald?

  I am, looks amazing.

• 54:56Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 54:56Andy Greenwald?

  I, I, I genuinely-

• 54:58Chris Ryan?

  Genuinely noticed.

• 54:58Andy Greenwald?

  I, I would say, I'm done. I turn off the episode after that. I, no, I, I think that the worst tendencies of the pit are the fact that within the structure that they've created and the way that they have to process time and story, that when the tide goes out and suddenly characters have a brief moment to, to, to talk, there's almost too much pressure on that moment to deliver something that feels as natural and humanistic as much of the rest of the show when it's at its normal cadence. That happened last week when Whittaker popped off at Langdon all of a sudden. And was it consistent with how he probably was feeling based on what we've seen? Sure, but we've never seen them talk to each other like that. And it felt kind of jarring.

• 55:42Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 55:43Andy Greenwald?

  I felt similarly about this scene. It was meaningful. It had to happen. It was foreshadowed appropriately when Robbie realizes that he wanted to say something to him before he left and asked Dana where he went. It was better dramatically that it wasn't another learning hug at the end of the season. It gives us some, somewhere else to go. But also in the flow of the episode as it was delivered- To us, it was another one on one scene where someone tells Robbie a version of you need help, man.

• 56:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:10Andy Greenwald?

  And we've had a couple of those. It was a different tenor. It was a different relationship.

• 56:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, we've had screaming. We've had take accountability. We've had you're a narcissist. We've had you've gotta like embrace the darkness like like.

• 56:22Andy Greenwald?

  We've had hugs.

• 56:23Chris Ryan?

  And I thought it was actually like on in a total, a really amazing portrait of

• 56:29Chris Ryan?

  the importance of like talking to people and the importance of like, you know, in some way, I think that this episode or this season has been Robbie's cry for help and it seems like it's been heard a fair amount.

• 56:42Andy Greenwald?

  I I thought the conversely, I thought the Abbott scene was pretty spectacular.

• 56:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, man.

• 56:47Andy Greenwald?

  Those two guys.

• 56:48Chris Ryan?

  Blacken out in that scene.

• 56:50Andy Greenwald?

  He's incredible.

• 56:53Andy Greenwald?

  And it it it's the right level of intensity and guys don't talk about feelings, but also some jokes, but also.

• 57:02Chris Ryan?

  But maybe guys do talk about feelings if they save two lives and like just dump a bunch of pads inside of an empty stomach. You know what I mean?

• 57:09Andy Greenwald?

  I I wondered if you were gonna ask about that, like.

• 57:11Chris Ryan?

  That's just like, that's the crazy shit with doctoring where like, they'll be like, oh, we have to do all this elaborate, like, don't do this to the vein and like move that and like, we're gonna do this crazy laser underneath. And then one part of it will be like shove a ton of gauze into this guy's gut and let's see if we can stop the bleeding. And that is what they did during the Civil War. Like you guys have to have developed different fucking techniques.

• 57:34Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, now to be fair, they did not have gauze in the Civil War.

• 57:37Chris Ryan?

  We don't have starting pitchers anymore. Why are you guys still pumping gauze into people's stomachs?

• 57:43Andy Greenwald?

  I also thought it's a little.

• 57:44Chris Ryan?

  And what are they gonna get it out?

• 57:45Andy Greenwald?

  That's what I was gonna say.

• 57:46Chris Ryan?

  Dissolve?

• 57:47Andy Greenwald?

  No, it's a little bit of a fun game for the friends upstairs.

• 57:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that guy is like.

• 57:52Andy Greenwald?

  Find my gauze.

• 57:53Chris Ryan?

  12 minutes ago. What the fuck happened down here?

• 57:55Andy Greenwald?

  Also, where's all my gauze?

• 57:59Andy Greenwald?

  Can I reuse it?

• 58:02Andy Greenwald?

  I really liked, I liked when Abbott, I like the Abbott line about I'm your emergency contact and I do not want to be contacted. I thought that was a great line and I just thought the way that they spoke.

• 58:12Chris Ryan?

  Am I your emergency contact?

• 58:15Andy Greenwald?

  Uh huh.

• 58:17Chris Ryan?

  Cool.

• 58:18Andy Greenwald?

  I mean.

• 58:18Chris Ryan?

  We'll find out.

• 58:20Andy Greenwald?

  I got a motorcycle trip coming up.

• 58:21Chris Ryan?

  You're gonna cut your brakes and just to see.

• 58:24Andy Greenwald?

  What if you just got a, what if you got a call being like, thank God we've reached you. You're Andy's emergency contact. HIPAA laws prohibit us telling you much, but his entire midsection is bursting with gauze.

• 58:36Chris Ryan?

  That like, sounds like you guys saved him.

• 58:38Andy Greenwald?

  He sounds like you got, and then you'd be like that George Bush meme. You're like, now watch this drive.

• 58:45Chris Ryan?

  We got probably a, it sounds like a six month time jump coming.

• 58:50Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 58:50Chris Ryan?

  So it'll be interesting to see whether that is geared both because they want to get some, some autumnal slash winter disasters going. But, and I, you know, maybe we can get like a hockey ring kind of situation, whatever, you know?

• 59:05Andy Greenwald?

  Penguins.

• 59:06Chris Ryan?

  Uh, but also like that would put Al Hashimi and Robbie on track to be back if, if they want to do that. Great season.

• 59:14Andy Greenwald?

  Do you feel?

• 59:15Chris Ryan?

  Really loved it.

• 59:15Andy Greenwald?

  Last thing, I, I, you know, there's two, two types of discourse that I, well, there's many types of discourse that I don't like. But the purposes of the show, one that I really have no time for is to like, give this man all the Emmys now. But the second one I also don't like is this blank spinoff when? That said, this show is just heaving for a night shift. Like it is this episode when not only does it let Abbott take center stage, but he is leading his crew in a bespoke chant saying that they are night crawlers.

• 59:50Chris Ryan?

  This is my one prediction.

• 59:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 59:52Chris Ryan?

  For season three is in the same way that they did Abbott shows up briefly in the first half of the season and then runs like the last three or four is a much bigger presence. I do wonder if we get like three episodes, four episodes of Abbott and Ellis finishing a shift.

• 1:00:08Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I think we should, I think it would be great to start.

• 1:00:10Chris Ryan?

  Just because Ellis is being.

• 1:00:11Andy Greenwald?

  3am.

• 1:00:12Chris Ryan?

  Brought up to.

• 1:00:13Andy Greenwald?

  And she can go.

• 1:00:13Chris Ryan?

  To main cast. And then that would be like. That would be really interesting if day shift has to come in and like whatever, what could happen in the morning, like a big tractor trailer accident out there outside of Pittsburgh.

• 1:00:28Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think this can happen or will happen for a variety of like specific production based reasons, but it has definitely at least been floated that if they could get the timing right, they could run the pit all year by alternating use of the set, by having a day shift.

• 1:00:48Chris Ryan?

  Could you handle that?

• 1:00:49Andy Greenwald?

  As a viewer?

• 1:00:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:50Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I think it wouldn't really serve anyone other than potentially future, you know, owner of the hospital, David Ellison. Like I don't, I think like just in terms of the bastardization of story and attention, it's probably not worth it, but could I handle it? Yeah, like I actively, I feel quite sad that that was the finale because it's, I enjoy this job, but I also just enjoy having a show like that to watch.

• 1:01:17Chris Ryan?

  It's, it's close to the feeling of one of those monocultural shows that we, we know and love where I feel like anticipation for the moment that I'm going to turn it on and excitement to talk about it afterwards.

• 1:01:32Andy Greenwald?

  And just eagerness to turn it off, apparently, even before it ends.

• 1:01:36Chris Ryan?

  That's my bad. I thought when I got to R. Scott Jemel, it was all, I'm all clear.

• 1:01:41Andy Greenwald?

  You just keep, the dulcet tones of Alanis Morissette.

• 1:01:44Chris Ryan?

  I'm gonna start putting fake, fake Stinger podcast moments where I'm just like, after you've left, I'm gonna be like.

• 1:01:51Andy Greenwald?

  You should.

• 1:01:52Chris Ryan?

  During the credits.

• 1:02:24Speaker 04

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• 1:02:53Speaker 05

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• 1:03:24Chris Ryan?

  Let's do Top Chef for a few minutes here. Okay. So that was the pit finale. Thumbs up. From the pit, the hospital, to the barbecue pit. That's right. Spoilers for Top Chef, and I will say, um, we're gonna get a little bit granular here about Top Chef as a production. So spoilers also for Last Chance Kitchen. Yeah, we have to. And I begin at the end. Okay. Is that okay? Do what you need to do. What happened? What happened there? So Seeger loses on the show itself. Yep. You can debate whether or not, like, his... Was he falling on his sword? Was he making some great hero move to, like, cook the whole hog himself and stay up all

• 1:04:07Chris Ryan?

  night and cook the toughest part of the pig? I don't know enough about pigs to tell you. You know, like, there was... I thought Lawrence did a great job. There were some good-looking dishes, but for the most part, this seemed like a very difficult challenge. Yeah. And also, a complicated one in so much as it was two teams, a captain, but then there was, you know, Justin's cooking, but with, like, Jen's milk bread that everybody seemed to love. Yada, yada. Seeger loses. I wouldn't say he lost, like, entirely gracefully. He seemed a little bit like, see fucking soon, dog, you know, to everybody. They go to Last Chance Kitchen and Tom is like, basically like, I can't explain what's going on, but we don't have a challenger for Rota today.

• 1:04:50Andy Greenwald?

  All will be revealed in next week's main episode, he says, basically.

• 1:04:54Chris Ryan?

  So, the operating theory seems to be that next week.

• 1:04:59Andy Greenwald?

  There's two main, there's two potential outcomes. Yeah, go for it.

• 1:05:01Chris Ryan?

  Jen will have to drop out of the competition before even a quick fire starts. And because of that, and because she's sort of been on warning about, like, you have to compete if you're gonna be here.

• 1:05:12Andy Greenwald?

  65 game rule.

• 1:05:13Chris Ryan?

  They will pull her from the competition and Seeger will automatically go back in. Because he was the last one eliminated. What's the other theory?

• 1:05:22Andy Greenwald?

  The other theory is that he threw a hissy fit and said, you guys all suck. I'm out of here. I'm not gonna do your funny little after show. Which has only ever happened one other time.

• 1:05:32Chris Ryan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:05:32Andy Greenwald?

  The guy with the hat who got eliminated first the season, two seasons ago, David, I think. He made like garbage pizza was his business. No offense, but I, no, I think his business was literally like, you know, I'm.

• 1:05:42Chris Ryan?

  Pizza, but with everything on it.

• 1:05:44Andy Greenwald?

  No, pizza with like scraps that other restaurants throw away.

• 1:05:47Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. He was like dumpster diving, right? And he didn't go to Last Chance Kitchen?

• 1:05:51Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 1:05:52Chris Ryan?

  Alright.

• 1:05:52Andy Greenwald?

  Look at your face. You like people who compete.

• 1:05:56Andy Greenwald?

  It's incredible. This really got your blood up. I could see, I could see both happening and I definitely already be, I mean, people do receive what's known as the villain edit often in reality shows and I, I expressed my displeasure at Seeger's attitude towards the children. Previous week.

• 1:06:13Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:06:13Andy Greenwald?

  For example, I don't think he would like the show Bandi at all, because he's not interested in people who collaborate with adult children. But I also felt like the Top Chef is as far from the most people's baseline understanding of reality TV as it can get. I think it doesn't really go for soap operatives.

• 1:06:33Chris Ryan?

  Like interpersonal dramas and stuff like that.

• 1:06:35Andy Greenwald?

  Mostly, especially in the last, I don't know. 15 seasons, just generally uninterested in that. And I think that's to its credit. That said, whether it's the edit or just the guy himself, Seeger was incredibly unlikable in the, over these last two weeks. I felt his, like, the way that it was cutting to him. I mean, one fun thing this season is I am watching it with my kids and like, them not really yet knowing the rhythms of a show in which I'm, they don't understand that if you get the interview where they talk about their family or background, that means they're either winning or losing.

• 1:07:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:06Andy Greenwald?

  And you don't know which.

• 1:07:07Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:07:07Andy Greenwald?

  So the way that Seeger was like, you know, I've, I've trained with Rodney Scott and I've done all these things, was setting him up to lose, but like, TV can reveal things, even if, you know, it's not necessarily malicious edit. And the, he was so tight and so resentful and angry about how things should be done, that he was definitely.

• 1:07:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:26Andy Greenwald?

  Set himself up for failure. And, and set up for a potential, I believe his final interview in this episode, didn't look like other final interviews have been. Like, he seemed to be in a different space, that potentially this was done. And that, that could be either because he bailed, or because he had to film that talking headpiece, separate from the normal talking headpiece because of whatever had happened.

• 1:07:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I don't know exactly. I'd be curious to know, but maybe they wouldn't tell us about when they shoot Last Chance Kitchen in relationship to the episodes. I, I think in times it has been like this person walked out of an elimination and into Last Chance Kitchen.

• 1:07:59Andy Greenwald?

  I've also heard that there have been seasons in which they shoot Last Chance Kitchen over a course of like two days closer to the end of production.

• 1:08:09Chris Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:08:09Andy Greenwald?

  If you are on a show like this.

• 1:08:10Chris Ryan?

  Before they go, like, it's basically like you, you win Last Chance Kitchen over the course of two days and go right back into the regular.

• 1:08:17Andy Greenwald?

  I believe that's right. It catches you up to that point.

• 1:08:19Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:08:19Andy Greenwald?

  Everyone who signs up for the show is committed to like a blackout. They have to be there for those four to six weeks.

• 1:08:26Chris Ryan?

  But like theoretically, like Nana could have to sit in Last Chance Kitchen for two weeks or something like that.

• 1:08:31Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, or just sit in a hotel.

• 1:08:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:08:34Andy Greenwald?

  The, the strangeness in Last Chance Kitchen did create a pretty fun. I mean, I, I kind of liked the chaos of it because Tom was clearly like, I don't know what's going on. And then the nature of the challenge that they had come up with was so bizarre and specific. And like, he made them put duck heads into everything. But I also kind of liked the fact that there were two chefs there who were eliminated. And he was just like, just come and try to win money.

• 1:08:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I thought that was cool.

• 1:08:56Andy Greenwald?

  I enjoyed it.

• 1:08:57Chris Ryan?

  It was cool. I thought. It just spoke to perhaps a flaw in the engineering of the television show or like in the production itself if like depending on when they're shooting this and what whatever and like just the fact that you leave an episode of TV and you're like, I don't really understand what happened, but not on a cliffhanger way, more in a like Tom seems unprepared for what's just happened.

• 1:09:19Andy Greenwald?

  Something has broken down.

• 1:09:20Chris Ryan?

  Did you have any other big notes from the show itself?

• 1:09:22Andy Greenwald?

  Another great challenge in what's been a good season. I really like that they made them do something incredibly specific and hard. There was no quick fire. It was a whole hog cook all night. People went a little nuts staying up all night. I definitely, who do you, like, what do you think is easier? Neither is easy, but do you think it's easier to stay up all night and then plate a delicious, you know, hog dish or stay up essentially all night and then deliver a baby and save a mother suffering from eclampsia?

• 1:09:53Chris Ryan?

  The question is, is like, have you ever done the like, my flight is so early, I'm just gonna stay up all night?

• 1:09:59Andy Greenwald?

  No, I can't do that.

• 1:10:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that's, that's the, I, I, I think in any situation, I would be like, I'm gonna go get a couple hours of sleep somewhere.

• 1:10:06Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:07Chris Ryan?

  Like, my brain needs to shut down for a second. So I would rather personally, just for the, just for the memories, do the C-section, you know?

• 1:10:16Andy Greenwald?

  That's not where I thought you were gonna go.

• 1:10:17Chris Ryan?

  But I could be the gauze guy, cuz it's like, it just seems like that's just like, put a bunch of gauze in the stomach.

• 1:10:22Andy Greenwald?

  Did you, first of all, you're saying-

• 1:10:23Chris Ryan?

  Do you think there's technique to that?

• 1:10:24Andy Greenwald?

  People don't know this about you.

• 1:10:26Chris Ryan?

  Edge him up and under!

• 1:10:30Andy Greenwald?

  You could be like, did you see the video of the, of the kid who sunk to half court for 10 grand at the Sixers game?

• 1:10:35Chris Ryan?

  And then fucking Maxie and PG came out to him, yeah.

• 1:10:38Andy Greenwald?

  That's you. Even longtime listeners probably don't understand that there was a period about 20 years ago when you had spent a lot of time watching House MD and thus sort of fancied yourself a bit of an amateur medicine man. And anytime anyone was slightly ill or perhaps hungover, your suggestion was a towel of indeterminate temperature?

• 1:10:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, sometimes cold, sometimes hot.

• 1:10:59Andy Greenwald?

  We'd, we'd turn to you like the wise Sajem and be like, Chris, I'm suffering from these ailments. And you'd be like, hot towel around the neck.

• 1:11:06Chris Ryan?

  I don't think that was from House.

• 1:11:08Andy Greenwald?

  You don't think?

• 1:11:09Chris Ryan?

  I mean, I think I was watching House, but I think it was more just like, I need you to rally, you know, like-

• 1:11:14Andy Greenwald?

  That's probably true too. It's probably true too.

• 1:11:17Chris Ryan?

  Um, speaking of sports.

• 1:11:18Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. Switch it.

• 1:11:22Andy Greenwald?

  I'm wearing Eagles green.

• 1:11:23Chris Ryan?

  And that's what I want to talk to you about.

• 1:11:25Andy Greenwald?

  My wardrobe choices.

• 1:11:27Chris Ryan?

  Last night, during the Sixers play-in game.

• 1:11:30Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:31Chris Ryan?

  First of all, I thought, I found you very quiet yesterday. And not particularly chatty with me. That's fine. These days happen, but I didn't think that you were like engaging with me.

• 1:11:42Andy Greenwald?

  Do you want to talk about that?

• 1:11:43Chris Ryan?

  No, that was fine, because that's not abnormal. What I didn't like is that when Zach and I were texting about the Sixers' incredible performance against the Orlando Magic.

• 1:11:52Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:53Chris Ryan?

  The only sporting event that anyone cared about that last night. You were like, "You guys are so loyal."

• 1:11:59Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Chris Ryan?

  And I was like, "Don't fucking do that."

• 1:12:02Andy Greenwald?

  I, I, no, I.

• 1:12:03Chris Ryan?

  Don't, do, this is a safe space where we talk about our obsessions and our fandom. And you're like, "You guys really like the Sixers." And I was like, "Are you, are you being held for fucking ransom? Like, what is going on?"

• 1:12:16Andy Greenwald?

  I'm, I'm kind of, my heart has been bruised too much. I'm kind of in prove it mode with them.

• 1:12:23Chris Ryan?

  It's Wednesday night. What were you doing?

• 1:12:25Andy Greenwald?

  Well, clearly I had a full day.

• 1:12:29Andy Greenwald?

  And the fact that it's driving you crazy, you don't know what I did yesterday.

• 1:12:32Chris Ryan?

  It's okay.

• 1:12:33Andy Greenwald?

  I, I was monitoring the situation.

• 1:12:36Chris Ryan?

  I, but I think that you-

• 1:12:37Andy Greenwald?

  I had eyes on the game.

• 1:12:38Chris Ryan?

  Are always such an ebullient, like, gregarious fan. You're just like, "Guys."

• 1:12:43Andy Greenwald?

  Because-

• 1:12:43Chris Ryan?

  Hello, brothers? Like, what Philly sporting event is happening today?

• 1:12:46Andy Greenwald?

  Because here's the thing.

• 1:12:47Chris Ryan?

  You're like, "You guys like this shit, huh?"

• 1:12:49Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, it was a bit of a brushback pitch. Because I have definitely sent a disproportionate share of Andrew Painter texts slash, "Do you think we're gonna get Kenyon Siddique at 23 texts?" And frankly, some crickets. Some mock draft content I sent your way, no one responded to.

• 1:13:09Chris Ryan?

  Well, that was Barnwell being like, "This won't happen, but what if it did?"

• 1:13:13Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, it wasn't Barnwell. It was NBCSportsPhiladelphia.com, so click the link. Anyway.

• 1:13:21Chris Ryan?

  This is why journalism is collapsing.

• 1:13:23Andy Greenwald?

  This is why. You're like, "It's probably Bill Barnwell."

• 1:13:26Chris Ryan?

  I love Barnwell, but I was like, I, I saw that on ESPN.com and I was like, "This is speculative."

• 1:13:31Andy Greenwald?

  You didn't even see it.

• 1:13:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:32Andy Greenwald?

  You don't even know the fantasy situation that I was sharing with you for no reason on a Tuesday at 3:00 PM.

• 1:13:37Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:13:39Andy Greenwald?

  The fucking Sixers, man. Like, come on. Come on.

• 1:13:43Chris Ryan?

  You don't understand. It's Jekyll and Hyde, man.

• 1:13:46Andy Greenwald?

  I do understand, and every time it's Jekyll.

• 1:13:48Chris Ryan?

  And when Joe is out there, it's like watching a brontosaurus like move across a pasture. And you're just like, this is not fun.

• 1:13:55Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:55Chris Ryan?

  But when it's Vijay and Maxi and Playoff P.

• 1:13:58Andy Greenwald?

  I know, but you're still trusting. Here's the thing. I love Dr. Jekyll. I am a patient of Dr. Jekyll. I make appointments to see Dr. Jekyll. And then while he's examining me, I'm like, you want to hang out sometime?

• 1:14:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:15Andy Greenwald?

  I've gotten too close to Dr. Jekyll. Do you know what Dr. Jekyll is like when you get too close to him?

• 1:14:20Chris Ryan?

  Is Dr. Jekyll Joel in beating this?

• 1:14:22Andy Greenwald?

  No, it's the fucking team. Because then I'm like, maybe this team has a chance. Then Paul George is suspended for taking drugs?

• 1:14:29Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:14:30Andy Greenwald?

  And then I'm like, hey, Dr. Jekyll, you're looking good again.

• 1:14:33Chris Ryan?

  Do you know what I think about that?

• 1:14:33Andy Greenwald?

  And then Dr. Jekyll's like, oh, my appendix has just burst before the playoffs have begun. I don't have the...

• 1:14:42Chris Ryan?

  Okay. Okay.

• 1:14:44Andy Greenwald?

  I'm battered. I'm old, you know?

• 1:14:46Chris Ryan?

  I don't want you to ever think that when I don't respond to your draft, your deep, deep, deep draft lore, that it's anything about like... It's not that I don't find it interesting.

• 1:14:57Andy Greenwald?

  I...

• 1:14:58Chris Ryan?

  But I guess what I should do is be like, you sure do read a lot.

• 1:15:02Andy Greenwald?

  I do. I read a lot of New York Review of Books content. Like the great Nancy Lemon book that I'm reading, The Lives of Saints, New Orleans in the 80s. Come on, you're gonna love this book. I also read a lot of draft content.

• 1:15:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:15Andy Greenwald?

  I'm very excited about the upcoming NFL draft. I am...

• 1:15:18Chris Ryan?

  I have a take too hot for you.

• 1:15:19Andy Greenwald?

  Before we go to that, I would also say that the reason why I was particularly salty about the Sixers is because I did peek in on our fighting fills.

• 1:15:28Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:15:28Andy Greenwald?

  And it's just...

• 1:15:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. You know what they say? Don't even check the standings until game 60. It's all noise. It's no signal.

• 1:15:36Andy Greenwald?

  Who says that?

• 1:15:36Chris Ryan?

  The rates and barrels guy at the Athletic Podcast. And they were like, don't even worry about it until game 60. It's like, yeah, you could have a disaster season and at game 60, you might not be in it. But it's all noise. The signal doesn't start till game 60.

• 1:15:49Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 1:15:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:50Andy Greenwald?

  That's very calm.

• 1:15:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I love that.

• 1:15:53Andy Greenwald?

  Do we have a rule about that for television shows? Cause I've never found it.

• 1:15:56Chris Ryan?

  Uh, no, I mean, that's the problem with TV is that I'm not hanging out till game 60. It's too long, you know? I honestly, like, I'll be completely honest, as we're doing After Dark. I got, I got, I realize why I don't like reading reviews is that if I get warned off a show, I'm not really looking forward to the prospect of watching eight hours of beef if it's not good.

• 1:16:17Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 1:16:17Chris Ryan?

  I'll watch anything that's a bad movie. I don't give a shit.

• 1:16:20Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, for sure. It's a time thing.

• 1:16:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but it's just like eight hours of like something that doesn't work out and is like kinda not focused. But who knows? Maybe the critics are wrong and maybe we are the critics that matter, you know?

• 1:16:31Andy Greenwald?

  It's possible, or maybe we are gonna turn vegan from it. What's your hot draft take?

• 1:16:35Chris Ryan?

  I can't share it on, on, on a recording.

• 1:16:37Andy Greenwald?

  What?

• 1:16:38Chris Ryan?

  I mean, I will share it, but like then we have to cut it. I'll be completely honest with you. This is, sorry, sorry. Don't mean to offend anybody.

• 1:16:44Andy Greenwald?

  Beat this. This is gonna be great.

• 1:16:46Chris Ryan?

  When, that was my draft take and we didn't, we didn't include it in the podcast because.

• 1:16:54Andy Greenwald?

  Daniel Jeremiah could never.

• 1:16:56Chris Ryan?

  Thanks to Andy Greenwald. I thought you did a really good job today.

• 1:16:59Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you, but I am just, just rookie numbers compared to what you've done today.

• 1:17:04Chris Ryan?

  Sarah, Kaya, Kai, thank you so much for being here and thank you so much for witnessing my last pod, if that tape ever gets out. And we'll be back on Monday. Euphoria, beef, Margot's Got Money Problems.

• 1:17:16Andy Greenwald?

  It's a big show for us.

• 1:17:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Big show. Big, big, big show.

• 1:17:20Andy Greenwald?

  And we'll talk about, since I didn't realize you were so swayed by reviews, how engaged you are with Euphoria, season three.

• 1:17:25Chris Ryan?

  The reviews?

• 1:17:26Andy Greenwald?

  Well, no, you, you just were like, ruined reviews are bad. I don't wanna watch it. Now you're like, it's Levinson time.

• 1:17:33Andy Greenwald?

  Big Sam coming through. Nobody has his finger on the pulse of young America more.

• 1:17:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Honestly, you got a point there.

• 1:17:45Andy Greenwald?

  Also, I keep going along for the ride.

• 1:17:48Chris Ryan?

  I love it. Thank you for riding shotgun with me. Um, see you guys on Monday.

• 1:18:00Speaker 05

  Now at Kroger, your points add up to more ways to save every trip. Use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump. You can even save up to $35 on your next fill-up. Same points, more choices. And with low prices on fresh, quality food, plus digital and personalized offers tailored to how you shop, your dollar goes further. Redeem your points online or in the app. Kroger: Fresh for Everyone. Restrictions apply. See site or store for details.