Jocko Underground: "I'm Wrong" Encourages an Open Mind. Sociopath Boss.

Jiu Jitsu competition. Jiu Jitsu body types. Sociopath boss. Advice for going for a new bigger position. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Underground Podcast, number 41, with Echo Charles, sitting here across from me.

• 0:09Jocko Willink?

  I'm Jocko Willink. So, there's a little something to talk about. The idea of thinking I'm wrong. Like, if you and I are gonna have a conversation, and I go into the conversation thinking, hm, I could be wrong.

• 0:28Jocko Willink?

  What does that do? I'll tell you something extremely positive that happens, and this is how I go into conversations. I go into conversations thinking, hey, Echo's got a plan for doing something, I've got a plan for doing something, I'm probably wrong. Echo's idea's probably right, so cool, let's have a conversation and he can prove that he's right.

• 0:49Jocko Willink?

  And show me how he's right, and I'm okay with being wrong. So what does that do? It opens my mind. Opens my mind. Now, does this mean I blindly say, yes, Echo's right, and I'm wrong? No, no, no. I might ask you some earnest questions, but I'm not gonna get hostile about it. Not gonna get aggro about it. I'm gonna, kind of, you know, be okay. Now, where people might get concerned about this, is then you think, oh, well, if I'm going into a conversation thinking, uh, I'm wrong, then I don't have any confidence. No, I'm sorry, as soon as he says something, I'm just gonna shut down. No. Here's where this, here's we have to, here's we have to open your mind a little bit.

• 1:35Jocko Willink?

  If you go in with an attitude of, hey, I'm probably wrong. It actually increases your confidence, oddly enough. Because it's almost like going into a game, or a grappling match, where you know you're gonna lose.

• 1:58Jocko Willink?

  Now, look, you go in, you could have, let's say you were a 10-time, let's say you were 10-time world champion in jiu-jitsu, and I was a purple belt, you were a black belt, 10-time world champion, and you and I were gonna scrap.

• 2:13Jocko Willink?

  I could go in like, oh, I'm gonna get beat and that could hurt my confidence. Or I could be like, hey, man, this guy's a world champion 10 times and he's a black belt and I'm only a purple belt. I'm gonna go in there and try and learn some stuff. I'm gonna keep an open mind, watch what he does. And I kind of have nothing to lose. So if I want to throw a move out there, I can do it. And if he gets shut down, I get tapped out, it's not that big of a deal.

• 2:33Jocko Willink?

  If you, so, so that's the attitude that will make you able to think and accept other ideas more is to go in there with an attitude, not of like, he's gonna destroy me and I'm horrible, but like, hey, I can go in there, take some risks, listen, learn some moves, pay attention, and that's okay. And I'm not a loser because of it. When you see a, uh, you know, like someone steps up in weight class, Jeff Glover, steps up in weight class and goes up against a big monster guy, that's equivalent level. So the guy has a huge advantage and then Jeff gets beat. Do you go, man, what a loser? No, you freaking, you give respect because he rolled the dice and he stepped in there and, and he got beat and it's no big deal.

• 3:19Jocko Willink?

  Jeff Glover does that in practice too. He'll like let you get a rear naked choke. I've seen him let some random purple belt get a rear naked choke on him. And once it's sunk in, hooks are in, full rear naked choke, then you see Jeff start to try and escape. And I've seen him tap after he let a guy get hooks, full rear naked choke, then starts to escape and he gets tapped and he's like, ah, whatever. So it's not that big of a deal. If you can put your ego in check, it's not that big of a deal. So thinking to yourself consciously, until you get in the habit of it, think of yourself like, hey,

• 4:01Jocko Willink?

  I might be wrong. I'm going into this conversation, I'm going into this meeting, I'm going into this planning session. I'm gonna have a discussion with my wife about something.

• 4:11Jocko Willink?

  Going into it and thinking yourself, alright, I'm gonna be wrong and that's okay. Is an awesome way to adjust your attitude. It's an awesome way to open your mind and it's an awesome way to move forward in life. Does it mean you lack confidence? No, it doesn't. It means you're gonna win because your, your mind is open and that's gonna allow you to get there.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Yep, one of those easier said than done kinda.

• 4:40Jocko Willink?

  Definitely easier said than done. It's definitely easier said than done. It's such, the heart, one of the hardest parts about it is seeing that's in, that it's an advantage.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:49Jocko Willink?

  Cause you know what people say is like, when you go into a room, you gotta say, tell yourself like, I'm ready. I'm gonna own that room. I'm got, I got, I've got, you know, they do the, where you look in the mirror and you like raise your hands and you go like, ah, I am victory or whatever, right? That's what they tell you to say. But if you go in there and say, hey, victory, victory is coming out with the best idea from this group. That's victory. Okay, cool. I'm gonna have an open mind. I'm gonna listen. It's how you win.

• 5:20Jocko Willink?

  That's what's hard to get there.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's one of those like struggles. It's, it's kinda like a big picture versus small picture or a short term versus long term struggle. Where, um, and especially if you, if you go in saying, I could be wrong, kind of a thing, you're already playing the long game. Already. So that, you know, in life, that's everybody's struggle.

• 5:40Jocko Willink?

  Cause by the way, what are the chances that the discussion that you and I are about to have is the most important and impactful and final discussion that you and I are ever gonna have? The chances are about zero.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Yep, but that's a big picture perspective, which that doesn't come right away, like intuitively a lot of the time. Think about it. The big picture, small picture, short term, long term is your whole life. That's the, the struggle in every aspect of life. Like even relationships, freaking money, health, what you eat, what you exercise, you know, exercise, like everything, everything that you do.

• 6:15Jocko Willink?

  Strategic versus tactical.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 6:16Jocko Willink?

  Long term versus short term.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Yep. And so, um, and that also goes big, big picture, small picture. So like if I say, if I start saying, which is subtle difference. But if I'm like, hey, I could be wrong, you're, you being wrong isn't that big of a deal at the end of the day, right? That's a big picture attitude. Me being wrong when I say I'm right, that is a big deal.

• 6:38Jocko Willink?

  It's a bigger deal.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:40Jocko Willink?

  And depending on the size of your ego, it could be a huge deal.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Huge deal.

• 6:43Jocko Willink?

  And depending on the size of the other person's ego, it could be a huge deal because they like that victory and they like see you squirming in defeat.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, but.

• 6:51Jocko Willink?

  Why would you box yourself into that corner?

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Has very little impact in your life.

• 6:55Jocko Willink?

  Very little impact.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:56Jocko Willink?

  How many things are you debating in a day that hasn't?

• 7:00Jocko Willink?

  That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to JacoUnderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors and we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections,

• 7:44Jocko Willink?

  better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's JacoUnderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.