Caitlyn Jenner: Wheaties Boxes to Woman of the Year & Talks Meeting Pete Davidson w/ Kim Kardashian

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find In a special Pivot conversation, Caitlyn Jenner joins Ryan, Channing and Fred in a rare and open discussion from sports, to transitioning, to transgender athletes, to dishing on all her children and even gets into where she stands on her own personal relationships. Ryan opens up the conversation saying to Caitlyn, at one time as Bruce Jenner, you were the greatest athlete in the world and on Wheaties boxes... She responds yes, I have the greatest double in life- best male athlete and woman of the year, and jokes I bet you will never have another guest who can say that! As the conversation gets underway, Jenner recalls how her gender dysphoria began at an early age, and cropped up throughout her life, including at her highest moment, right after winning the gold medal in the decathlon at the 1976 Olympics. Sharing with guys that she woke up the next morning with nothing on, staring at the gold medal and wondering what had she done, questioning herself if she created a larger than life male figure that she would be stuck with for the rest of her life. For Jenner, she shares that winning the Olympics is Caitlyn's fondest memory of Bruce. With her children as her proudest accomplishment, Caitlyn shares about all of her kids and grandkids between the Jenner and Kardashian clans and what it was like telling them about her transition and the process of asking them before she did it. She shares how they were very afraid but in the end supportive of her choice to be happy and lives authentically. Extremely happy for Kim's new relationship with Pete Davidson, Caitlyn jokes how they are happy to have a comedian in the family and have enough rappers and athletes and gushes about Travis Scott being a great father to Stormi and Devin Booker being a strong partner for Kendall. Sharing some of her parenting hopes, she only wants the best for all her children and if they are all happy then she's happy. Channing turns the conversation personal when he dives into dating and how Caitlyn is spending her time nowadays. Caitlyn's business partner and friend Sophia Hutchins joins the conversation in a funny banter about relationships and makes it clear that there is nothing going on between the two and that she prefers males to females. Continuing the banter, they get into politics and Sophia is clear that if Bruce was the one running for Governor he would have won by a lot but being Caitlyn made that feat much harder. Closing out the episode, Caitlyn shows off her gold medal to the guys who are in awe of this accomplishment and allow Caitlyn to reflect on the biggest pivot she has made and share her insight to others going through anything! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Oh, Baxter, having a happy day. Whoa.

• 0:34Ryan Clark?

  Baxter really trying to drink it, dude. Baxter trying to be open.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  Max, come on.

• 0:40Ryan Clark?

  We're out here with our happy dads. We're in Malibu. We're at Caitlyn Jenner. We almost died getting to you, though.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  But you made it.

• 0:46Ryan Clark?

  But we made it.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  That's the most important thing. And what are we gonna do?

• 0:48Ryan Clark?

  We're gonna have a great time, first off. But we're gonna talk a little bit about prize picks.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  I ain't talking to you guys.

• 0:53Ryan Clark?

  Why you don't want to talk to us?

• 0:54Speaker 01

  I ain't talking.

• 0:55Ryan Clark?

  We were gonna ask you who you had in the finals.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Oh, God, who we had in the finals? Well, I'm out of the NBA.

• 1:01Ryan Clark?

  What happened?

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Well, Devin Booker, the Suns, they just got creamed in game seven.

• 1:07Ryan Clark?

  Yes, they did.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was embarrassing.

• 1:10Ryan Clark?

  It wasn't.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  So that was my team.

• 1:11Ryan Clark?

  And so now you're doing it.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  Obviously because of Kendall. And Devin's a really great guy. So, anyway, I'm out of it now. I don't care.

• 1:18Ryan Clark?

  I just want to tell y'all, I went five for five. Here you go. I put in 750. I came out with 7,500.

• 1:24Fred Taylor?

  No, but that's the easy thing. With prize picks, it's just pick players.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28Fred Taylor?

  So you can still, well, you can't pick Devin because he's home now. But it was easier to just pick the players and not the team.

• 1:34Ryan Clark?

  Very much like Devin Booker. I'll continue to beat y'all on prize picks and stump y'all out. And now we about to go have...

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Are you comparing him to Devin Booker?

• 1:42Ryan Clark?

  The loser part.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  Can he go to his left? That's all I want to know.

• 1:45Ryan Clark?

  Hey, I'm telling you what, Caitlyn. Caitlyn, when he played, he can go everywhere.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:50Ryan Clark?

  When he played, he could go right, left, anywhere you want him to go. Up the middle, outside, one of the best to ever do it.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56Channing Crowder?

  But RC had a little run. He's been whooping us on the last couple of...

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Oh, is he?

• 2:00Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He thinks he's a genius.

• 2:02Ryan Clark?

  Listen, if you use the promo code PIVOT, they will match you up to $100. And Shannon, you know, we already in the big states.

• 2:09Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Florida, California, Texas, we got all the big states, 75% of them. Man, we're rolling. And I'm telling you, it's so much fun because you can be a fan of sports and then you can bet on guys.

• 2:22Ryan Clark?

  Well, now, you know, now, let's go have one of the greatest conversations that Caitlyn Jenner's ever had.

• 2:26Fred Taylor?

  Let's do it.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Let's do it. I'm still not talking to you guys. This one. I am? Okay.

• 2:49Ryan Clark?

  Welcome to The Pivot. Like I said, this is Fred Taylor, Channing Crowder, and Ryan Clark. You don't really need an introduction to have Caitlyn Jenner. Give us the opportunity to sit down with her and have these type of conversations. I think it's very impactful, especially-

• 3:07Channing Crowder?

  In this badass house.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm happy to be here. I mean, I looked at you, of course, I find out I'm doing this, so of course I check out all your other stuff.

• 3:15Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  And I'm going, wait a second. I'm not your typical guest for this show. Yeah, yeah, which I think is good, and I think it's great, because you can learn a lot. But you have a lot of athletes on, you know, a lot of different people. Only, and there may be more, but I only saw one female on.

• 3:31Ryan Clark?

  We did Jana Kramer, we did Dr. Mira, who did his teeth. His teeth were so bad, Caitlyn, before.

• 3:38Channing Crowder?

  Caitlyn.

• 3:38Ryan Clark?

  His teeth were so bad-

• 3:40Channing Crowder?

  These motherfuckers pretty now, though.

• 3:41Ryan Clark?

  And so-

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Gorgeous. Gorgeous.

• 3:45Ryan Clark?

  And so he's, so he's, so we had Dr. Mira on. We actually did something with Candace Parker, but she has a doc coming out, so we have to wait a little while to release it. But you mentioned, though, that we have athletes. Well, one of the main reason the world knows Caitlyn Jenner is because at one point, she was the greatest athlete in the world on Wheaties boxes.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Put it this way. I have the greatest double in history.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Olympic decathlon champion and Glamour's Woman of the Year.

• 4:23Ryan Clark?

  Hey.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Come on, you'll never get another guest who has those credentials. You hail. I've had a very interesting life.

• 4:32Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  I've been through a lot, and-

• 4:36Speaker 01

  If you want to go back to my athletic background, I'll start there.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  I was highly motivated. I trained 68 hours a day, every day, 365 days out of the year. Intensely for the last six years. I was in the sport for 12 years, but the last six years is pretty much all I did. I lived on $10,000 a year. I drove a $175 car, lived in a $145 a month apartment, and that was my only payment, and I trained. And I look back on that, and I go, "My God." "Why did I do that?" you know? "And why was I so intense?" And it just, you know, there's a lot of things that go into something like that.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  You know, I grew up as a dyslexic kid, so perceptually getting words off a piece of paper was kind of tough for me, you know? My biggest fear in life was to go to school, because I was afraid the teacher was going to make me read in front of the class. And not only perceptually, just have a hard time picking the words up, but also I got so nervous, and I got, my hands would be sweating, you know, because I didn't want anybody to know I had the problem, you know? And also, gender dysphoric, because when you're gender dysphoric, you have that from growing up, you know? But back in the 50s and 60s, when I was growing up, there wasn't even a word for it. See, just keep your mouth shut. But that's always inside of you. And because of those types of things, it just kind of set up a pattern for me.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  When sports came around, in 5th grade, now here I wasn't doing very good in school. 5th grade gym class, Washington Irving Junior High School in Tarrytown, New York. Went to the back of the school, and they had a big parking lot, and the coach had set up a bunch of chairs around the parking lot. And he was going to time every kid in school.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  "Okay, let's go do this. This looks like fun." You know, so I get out there, I get on my foot on the line, like, I take off, running around.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Fastest time in the whole school. First time I ever accomplished anything in school. I was better than anybody else and I wasn't getting that in the classroom. You know, and here I was better than anybody else and I thought, my god. You know, what is this thing called sports? This is kinda cool. Go out for football. Take a guy, good student, good reader.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Clean his clock, baby, that felt pretty damn good. That felt good, let's play football and then let's play basketball. And then I competitively water skied all summer. I was just involved in sports and sports and sports. And it kinda got me away from, it built my confidence level up, it got me away. But that same pattern. You know, here was, was me when I was growing up. I thought I was not as smart as everybody else. Cause I wasn't doing well in school. And wound up being, my greatest gift was my brain. I was smarter than everybody else in sports. I outworked them, I was smarter. When I got into competition, I performed.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  When I had to perform, I could always come up with a performance. And my greatest gift was my brain. You know, which I thought was my greatest weakness, wound up being my greatest strength. And, I mean, I went into the games. If I did a perfect score, all 10 events, ran my best race in all 10 events. I scored 8,678 points.

• 8:16Channing Crowder?

  Close.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  I scored 8,634 points. I was as close to perfect as you could possibly get. That's because of your head. Because it's horrible conditions at the games. The games are just an event you wanna win. You know, you don't even care what your score is, just win.

• 8:32Channing Crowder?

  Get through it.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, just do it, cause you can break a world record in any meet you're at. I was the world record holder going in, but you can break a world record at any meet you're at, but you can't get a gold medal only once every four years.

• 8:43Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  So it's a win. Fortunately, it was also my last meet.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  And broke the world record, first time, the last thing I wanted to do was score over 8,600 points, got 86 34. And walked away, and I watched a lot of your videos and stuff with the other athletes, you know? And here I was, 26 years old, I was at the top of my game, best in the world at what I do, and I knew for four years I was walking away on the 30th of July in 1976. At 7 o'clock at night, I ran the 1500 meters. I knew at 7:05, it was over, you know? Because I had to move on, I had to give up too much to be there.

• 9:25Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  But I watched a lot of your athletes and people on a lot of these podcasts, and you hear a lot of frustration, you know, like, I didn't quite do this, or I didn't quite do that. I said, I am the luckiest person in the world. I accomplished everything. There wasn't one thing I had not accomplished in my career. I broke the world record three times, got the gold medal, you know? To me, the fun was always the climb to the top. Let's climb that mountain, you know, let's break the world record, let's make it to the Olympic trials, and, you know, you've got to make a qualifying stand, or make that qualifying stand. And you had to climb all these mountains and everything. And when it was over with, I just was, it wasn't I was shocked I won because I hadn't

• 10:11Speaker 01

  lost a meet in three years, it was just absolute downright satisfaction of just big smile on my face, just, I could walk away because I climbed every mountain.

• 10:24Ryan Clark?

  So even in walking away, there's a story, you're standing in your room with just your gold medal on, looking in the mirror. What is it like to know that you've accomplished, like you said, everything you wanted to do in sports, but you're looking at yourself and you still don't feel like you?

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Well, yes, the next morning I woke up.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  And I went into the bathroom, not a stitch of clothes on. Gold medal was sitting there on the counter. Put the gold medal on and looked in the mirror and said to myself, "What the hell did you just do?" You know? Did I build this character up? Because there's a lot more to me than just training, running, and winning. There's a lot more to me than that. Did I build this character up so big that I'm stuck with them the rest of my life? You know? And it was really kind of, it was depressing. It was thinking, "Now, Jesus, what do I do?" Fortunately, I mean, within the next 24 hours,

• 11:34Speaker 01

  ABC offered me a job to get into the television business. And I just took all this energy and put it into business, into learning new careers, to, you know, I did, back then I did movies, I did series, you name it. I just constantly worked, worked and worked. But when you suffer from gender dysphoria and gender identity of who the hell you are, it's not like you can take two aspirin and get plenty of sleep and wake up the next morning and you're fine. You're kind of stuck with it. And for me, and for anybody who's dealing with this, every journey is different. And it's just how you deal with it. You know? I don't know if you had a chance to read my book,

• 12:19Speaker 01

  The Secrets of My Life. And in there, I spent almost a year and a half, 8,000 pages of memoirs going over my life and all the secrets and the sneaking around and the fooling around. And I never felt like I fit in to the world because I didn't really fit in with the guys. I wasn't like, even though you win the games and they think you're real macho and this, I was, that was not me, you know? That was not me. But everybody perceives you that way. Like, "Oh, my God, you know, you're the greatest athlete in the world." Yeah, big title. Doesn't help my golf game.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  I saw you swing. I saw you swing. It's a big, it's a big title. And, but it really, it was just part of my life. And there was so much more to it. Fortunately, I mean, I got into work. Always distractions. Got into work, started to learning new things. Started having children. And having all these kids, you know, you just kind of dive into that stuff and raising kids. And, you know, I spent the next thirty-five years, forty years of my life, you know, raising a families and this and that. And then, all of a sudden, they're all grown, you know? And there I was, back in Malibu, all by myself.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  And, you know, other things didn't work out. And I'm going, what the hell am I doing? I'm still dealing with the same crap I was dealing with when I was this big. Yeah? Kids are all raised. I don't know if you know, but my kids are doing fine. Yes, they will off. You probably heard that. Yeah, they're doing very good. I'm very proud of what they've been able to accomplish. And, yeah, what do I do with myself? Am I just gonna rot away or, you know? And honestly, after talking to all my children, if you have any faith in your soul, you know? I'm not a big religious person, but I do have faith in my soul. I believe in God. If you have any challenges in life,

• 14:26Speaker 01

  you know, you always, in your quiet times, go, God, why did you do this? You know, is there a reason for all of this? Is there a reason for all these things going through my head? You know, am I doing the right thing? Am I not doing the right thing? And I just got to the point in the final conversation I had to have, which I did it out on a field, walking through a field all by myself, you know, saying, am I doing the right thing? Can I do this? One, being a celebrity, that's kind of tough to do. Because I can't do it quietly. But also, I'm dealing with the most marginalized community, probably in the world, one of them at least, one of the most marginalized communities in the world, the trans community. And can I make a difference by coming out and bringing, shedding light on it?

• 15:09Speaker 01

  And can it make a difference in people's lives? And eventually, I kind of got the answer, and I said, "Yeah." And that was the last hurdle I had to get over with.

• 15:18Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  And then, "How the hell do you pull this off?" Yeah, that's the next one.

• 15:24Channing Crowder?

  And you said it twice already, like, you said when you were a kid, like, you've been fighting that since you were a kid. You knew at what age?

• 15:31Speaker 01

  Oh, well, since I can remember, as a little kid.

• 15:34Channing Crowder?

  Far back.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. When I was a little kid, I would sneak into my sister's closet and do all that kind of stuff. But not knowing at that point why you're doing those things. You're just driven to do those types of things. To where today, boy, have I learned a lot in the last seven years since 15... Yeah, seven years. Since I transitioned. Boy, you learn a lot. You know? You learn a lot. You can't save the world. Okay? At first, you come out and you think, "Hey, I think I could change the world." That's tough to do. But I have made a difference. And I went from being... Because the trans community is very divided. And at first, you're kind of like an activist, and I'm raising money.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  I got about 2.5 million that I gave out in the first couple of years to trans organizations, to groups, and this and that. And I got no love from them whatsoever. And I went, "Why am I doing this?" So I changed it into a scholarship program for trans youth. And we gave away a couple of scholarships. One to a girl up in Oregon who's working on her PhD. And another one to... At that time, this is when Trump was... And he had banned trans people in the military, which really kind of ticked me off. Because trans people have been in the military since the military began. He was in the ROTC program in college, and he lost his scholarship. Because it wouldn't... Female to male.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  His whole family was in the military. Great young guy. And lost a scholarship, so I helped him finish off his education.

• 17:09Ryan Clark?

  You mentioned the trans community being like not embracing you. And I've done some work with LGBTQ plus community in Louisiana. And most of that has been with African Americans. I know for sure the mortality rate of black trans women is extremely high.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Extremely.

• 17:28Ryan Clark?

  And it's extremely high because of black men as well.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  For black women, for all prostitution, that's a big problem. I've heard figures as high as 25% of all prostitutes out there are trans women. And a lot of those in the black community, because they can't get a job, they don't know what to do with themselves, and that's easy money. And there's obviously, if there's 25% of them out there.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  You know, there's an audience out there for you.

• 18:30Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  And yeah, I mean, it's honestly, it's horrible. Our suicide rate's nine times higher than the general public. We have a terrible suicide rate. It's very difficult for young people who are dealing with this. A lot of things have changed over the last 20, 30 years. Lot. And made it more accessible and more open. And I think the one thing that changed everything is over the last 20 years, the internet. When I was growing up, there was just no information. Nothing. I mean, just to find a therapist who deals in something like this was almost impossible.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  You know? Because there was just, no information out there on it. Where today, a couple of clicks and you can find 20 of them, you know? There are so many things on YouTube on kids who have transitioned and people see this. And it's become, right now, this issue.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Has become so big, almost every day on the news, there's something about being trans. That kind of bothers me, to be honest with you. For this reason, being trans is about that much of the population. It is such a small group of people who are actually trans or really suffering with gender dysphoria. And right now, because of the amount of publicity that it's getting, it's like, everybody thinks they're trans, which is not the case. The only thing I can identify with with this is back in the late 70s, I got a phone call from this local TV station here in L.A.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  And they heard I was dyslexic. And, because I never talked about it, I was gonna talk about it. And so anyway, he says, "I'd love to do an interview with you about that," you know? And I go, "Hey, that's great, yeah, love to." We did the interview, and in today's terms, it kind of went viral. It went all over the place. And I watched over the next five years, eight years, I I watched the word "being dyslexic" get bigger and bigger and bigger. And people opening up schools for dyslexic kids. Parents now are so aware of it. If the kid, you know, says some words backwards

• 21:04Speaker 01

  or does whatever he's doing, they go, "Oh my God, my child's dyslexic." Because everybody knows about being dyslexic now. And schools open up, programs open up, parents are putting, spending money and putting them into these programs to help their kids. And I can't blame the parents, but it just got out of hand. It became a huge word. Before I came out in 2015, The process had started to change. There was a lot of, some really good, articulate, trans women that were out there. They never talk about trans men, but trans women. Trans men are very quiet, you know? They just sneak into society. Transition is much easier, much easier.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  And they kind of slip in society and don't want to be public or nothing. They just move on in life. Where trans women, it's much more difficult and they're more public.

• 21:56Ryan Clark?

  I think women are more bold and women will speak their mind. Where a lot of times you can see a lot of men kind of, you know, play the back. But you mentioned, and you started talking about parents and when you came out about being dyslexic.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:11Ryan Clark?

  You were famous, but all your kids are famous. You know, like I saw, I used to watch The Hills and, you know, Brody Jenner, you know, was on there.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  They're everywhere.

• 22:20Ryan Clark?

  They're freaking everywhere. And, but in you raising kids, saying that you've had, you, you felt a certain way about yourself from very young, from, from, from the time you could remember. How did that affect the way you parented?

• 22:35Speaker 01

  I think it made me maybe a little bit more kind or gentle or parent. But I believe in parents make rules, regulations, and you follow them. Okay? And I would do my best. Obviously, I was married, married three times. All the mothers did a very good job, but I wasn't hard with my kids. But I was just, I tried to give them some advice, the things I have been through. You pass those things on, you support them and what they're doing. And provide opportunities for them, which I did. And they took tremendous advantage of those and they were very smart. Obviously, they know a lot about their Kardashian side. I have four stepkids of the Kardashian and six Jenner kids.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  But all the kids, even the ones that are on the show, all my children are doing just phenomenally well.

• 23:25Fred Taylor?

  What was the conversation like with the boys versus the girls? When you talked about the transition to Caitlyn?

• 23:32Speaker 01

  The first one, I, I wouldn't do it if they all didn't say it's okay. Okay? I was not happy. Bottom line is they wanted me to be happy.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  So, I'm gonna do it one at a time. I don't want him to gang up on me.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  So, this is when Chris and I had gone our separate directions. I'm living in a house down on the beach in Malibu. And I thought I'll start with my son Brandon. And I said, "Brandon."

• 24:04Speaker 01

  And I told my story. And he kept saying, "Yeah, I know." Everybody in the family knew, but it was the little secret nobody was gonna talk about. And because Brandon and I had never talked about this subject. We talked about a lot of things, but never this subject. But his mother, who I was obviously married to,

• 24:25Speaker 01

  she had told him a lot of things. But we never brought it up. So he says to me, we're three-quarters of the way through the conversation. He goes, "Dad."

• 24:36Speaker 01

  I go, "What?" He goes, "I've always been so proud that you're my father."

• 24:42Speaker 01

  He goes, "If I go to the airport, and I show him my ID and it's Brandon Jenner, oh, is your dad Bruce Jenner?" And he would go, "Yeah." "Oh, Bruce comes through here all the time and is always so nice. And, you know, we love him, this and that, and on and on and on." He said, "I get that all the time." So I've always been so proud of you being my father. He goes, "But I've never been more proud of you than I am right now."

• 25:10Speaker 01

  A little crying going on after that one.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  And that kinda started it off in the right,

• 25:20Speaker 01

  the right way. Some kids were easier than others. My two youngest ones were the two I was concerned about, my two youngest daughters, Kendall and Kylie. And they were all afraid for me. Scared, what's gonna happen.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  And I don't blame, I was scared. You know, this could go one of two ways. This could be horrible. I could be in the media, just this absolute freak. And I think for a lot of people, had the title of the greatest athlete in the world. I mean, that's like, how macho is that? You know? How can you go from there and all the male privilege? And give it away, all that away? And go one to the most marginalized community in the world, one of them.

• 26:08Channing Crowder?

  You went from the majority to the minority.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Big time, like.

• 26:11Channing Crowder?

  Minority, minority. Like minority, minority, the white male?

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:16Channing Crowder?

  So transitioning to like that, that.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  Right there.

• 26:20Channing Crowder?

  And to put yourself in that place.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and people couldn't understand it. But for me, I looked at it. It just wasn't me, you know? And how can you do that to yourself? And they didn't know my story. They didn't know anything. You know, I did Diane Sawyer, was the first time I came out with it. But I never, I just did it as Bruce. I, I thought the people were, you know, they're gonna be shocked. I got through this, which I will too, but.

• 26:55Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  After going through all of that. Uh, today, honestly, life's so much simpler. I just wake up in the morning and be myself. Granted, it takes a little longer to get ready.

• 27:08Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Got it? Uh, but that's okay, I can handle it.

• 27:12Channing Crowder?

  Oh, the hair is immaculate.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can handle it.

• 27:13Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  But I just wake up every morning and be myself. I, I, I'm just authentic. I don't have to put, I don't have to sneak around. I don't have to lie to people. I don't have to do any of that anymore. Do you get rid of one set of problems and open up a new sets of problems? Absolutely, you do. But I've always been able to handle just pretty much about anything. And I, I can handle the hate and the, you know, the BS and all the, you know, people who just, you know, the crazies. I feel sorry for them when they make, you know, rude comments and stuff like that. I don't care, I laugh, you know? Why? Because I'm happy.

• 27:53Ryan Clark?

  You mentioned being happy, though, and, you know, obviously, everyone, when you can drop the names of your children and you just say their first name and everybody, like, you're like, yeah, you know, Kylie and Kendall, like, everybody knows, you know, who they are. And now, though, that you have transitioned and you watch your daughters date very publicly, whether it's your stepdaughters, the Kardashians, Kylie, Kendall, and they don't date like normal guys.

• 28:21Channing Crowder?

  They don't date the dude that work at the gas station. You know what I'm saying? They're not dating.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  They couldn't. I get it. It's tough. I can't, if I was 24 years old, okay, could I date a Kylie Jenner? Not in a million years. I mean, I just couldn't do it, you know, when I was 24. I was 24. I was living in a $145 a month apartment, you know, training my ass off, you know? And at something like that, I could never. Kendall, same thing, highest paid model in the world. Are you kidding me? That's just like, I couldn't do that, you know? So it's very difficult for them to find people that are comfortable with her, that are kind of somewhat at their level.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  The only thing I want is I want any of these guys to treat them well. Number one. I don't want any bullshit. I don't, you treat them well and make them happy.

• 29:20Channing Crowder?

  You check them?

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Actually, Devin Booker, Kylie or Kendall's with, a great guy, really like him. I mean, he's, actually, he's a year younger than Kendall, but has his own life, you know, great basketball player. Too bad the Suns lost. I know. Boy, they just blew it. At home, blew it, blew it. But Devin seems to be really got his head on, good kid, good kid. I mean, I like Travis. I think he, first of all, he treats. Kylie very well. And that's by far the most important thing. I really haven't had a lot of conversations with him to really know him. But I know he treats Kylie very well. And he's a good dad to little Stormy.

• 30:05Fred Taylor?

  And that's what matters.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Good dad to little Stormy. Stormy loves him. Oh my God, daddy's here. You know, it's... Actually, I'm really into Pete right now with Kim.

• 30:16Fred Taylor?

  Mm-hmm. Really?

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, we got a comedian in the family. Yay! We need a comedian in the family. We don't need more rappers. We need comedians in the family. Anyway, we got enough rappers.

• 30:28Fred Taylor?

  Make the barbecues more fun.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, but Pete is... They came over the other day because I told Kim, "Kim, I haven't even met him yet." So she brought him over and we spent a couple hours here at the house together. And very different than what she would normally date. But Kimberly has been through a lot with the guys she's been with, you know? Very, and especially Kanye, a very complicated guy. I really liked Kanye, got along with him so well. The two of us did great together. And through, even when I transitioned, he was so on my side and, you know, loving it. But he was very difficult to live with. And Pete is 180 degrees the other direction.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  I mean, first of all, he treats her so well. And when they were over here, Kim is so happy. And Kim deserves to be happy. She's been through a hell of a lot in her life, a hell of a lot, you know? And she deserves happiness. And that made me happy. I said, "Okay, good. I like Pete." You know? You know, I can crack some jokes with him.

• 31:34Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, that's what you're worried about, your baby's being happy.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  So that's good, you know? All of them, they kind of, they do their own thing. But it's not easy, you know, being them.

• 31:45Fred Taylor?

  You mentioned that Bruce did a lot. He cheated around, moved around, was basically a rock star. What were those conversations like with the girls? Knowing that coming from the type of celebrity status that you held? And the ability to be able to be manipulative or deceive, or whatever with women moving around back in those days? What were the warnings you talked to the girls about knowing that they would be dating these similar types?

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Dating or being in the business?

• 32:13Fred Taylor?

  Well, both.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:15Fred Taylor?

  Both.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  First of all, the business.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  I said to him...

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Celebrity is a business. Treat it as a business. Don't think you're better than anybody else. I said, every person you meet can do something better than you. So true. You meet somebody and they seem very nice, but then they'll go over and they get next to the piano and they just rip on the piano and you go, "Jesus Christ, I can't do that." You know, everybody's got their talent, you know? So, don't think you're better than anybody else. Because every person you meet, something they can do better than you. They might have been better in math. You know, they might be better writers than you, you know? So, stay humble, but treat it as a business. You know, it is a business.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  And I think, to say the least, I think they've done a very, very good job in that. Two of them are on the Forbes billionaire list. That's not bad, you know? And they're gonna be just fine. So, from the celebrity standpoint, um, yeah, I said, be humble. Be nice to everybody you meet, uh, because they pay, you know, basically, that's your business. You can be at home, and you can be yourself, and be in your own home, and do what you want. But when you kind of walk out the door, you're working. You know, you're going to the grocery store. I always, be nice to people, you know? If, you know, for me, if they want a selfie, they have to take the selfie, or whatever it may be. And sometimes, for them, it can be very difficult.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  And they do their best, and they got their security with them, and this and that, that they can get through that. But, um, that's number one. Find guys that just treat you well. Because it's not easy for a guy to be involved with any of those kids.

• 34:02Ryan Clark?

  You talk about people being on the same level in those things. Pete is not on Kim's level far as, as celebrity in those things. And, and also, do you think? Physically, let me be honest. He's, yeah. He don't, Kim is a 10, Pete's a 6.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  I understand that. He's certainly not in her financial situation. But...

• 34:25Speaker 01

  He's such a good guy. He's on her level when it comes to being a good person. And Kim loves that. And he just, he treats her well, takes care of her. I mean, Kim needs that. She wasn't getting that for a long time. You know? And, uh, yeah. He's got a sense of humor, which she loves.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  And, uh, yeah, he just seems to be a real good guy. They seem to honestly be a very good match, and I hope it works out. Who knows what's gonna happen in the future? But I, I hope it works out. Cause Kim deserves to be happy.

• 34:55Ryan Clark?

  How hard is it for you to say you liked Kanye? And that you guys got along? And I can't, I can't imagine the type of bond you form with a person when they do support you through transitioning the way you said that Kanye is. But how hard is it when you're looking at your daughters and you see a Kanye who you know is hard to live with, but you like? Or you see Khloe continually going through things with a guy like Tristan Thompson? How hard is it to not say, you know what? I raised you better than this. You're better than this. I want more for you. But to, how hard is it to say, you know what? I'm gonna let you make your decisions and live your life?

• 35:32Speaker 01

  That's exactly what I do. Stay out of it. Hopefully I gave all that good advice to them when they were younger, growing up. And they're smart and intelligent kids. Sometimes you ask yourself in your head, you go, huh? What are you doing? You know, especially when they were younger and they were dating, bringing all kinds of, you know, guys around and this and that. And I go.

• 35:54Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior-like beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Girl, here. What are you doing? What are you doing? You know, but I would never say that to him.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  I would think that in my head. And stay, honestly, stay out of it. They'll learn. You know, I just don't want them to get hurt.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Emotionally, but they're all very smart girls. And they figure it out. And hopefully, in the end, they do figure it out. You know, even with Kim, with all the guys she's been through, you know. At this point, she's with a really nice guy, you know.

• 36:54Channing Crowder?

  And what's your relationship situation?

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Does he want a date, or what?

• 36:58Channing Crowder?

  No, no, no, I'm just... He said your hair was nice earlier. Your hair is immaculate now. He might be shooting this shot.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  You could be the first.

• 37:04Channing Crowder?

  We went to catch last night. You know, it's a nice place now, you know.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  Really? Okay, okay.

• 37:08Channing Crowder?

  If you want to go have some salmon now, we can eat some salmon together, but...

• 37:11Speaker 01

  I understand. I get it, I get it.

• 37:14Channing Crowder?

  You gonna live like this, too? Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm trying to get in this house.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, you want the view.

• 37:18Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, this is beautiful, man.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  You want to wake up in the morning, sit out there with your coffee.

• 37:22Channing Crowder?

  We can drink coffee together.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. We can get our happy dance right there and watch the sunset. Watch the sunset. It'd be perfect. Yeah, no, I've never dated. And I don't see myself in the future, ever, ever dating. I went through three marriages. I have all my kids. My days are full. I've got so many, I got a lot of things going on in my life right now. And this is, this is all good.

• 37:53Channing Crowder?

  I was gonna say, because your daughters like black dudes.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  Oh, well, that's true, yeah.

• 37:57Channing Crowder?

  Look, you see the teeth? You see the hair?

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, you got the new teeth, the hair, the whole thing.

• 38:00Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, I got the whole package put together, yeah.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Black guys have to have good teeth.

• 38:07Channing Crowder?

  Good teeth.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, they gotta have good teeth.

• 38:08Channing Crowder?

  White guys don't have to have good teeth?

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, just because it shows up more.

• 38:11Channing Crowder?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does it. When they smile, when they smile, those teeth gotta go boom, white.

• 38:17Channing Crowder?

  Every time I walk in the gas station. Hey, Red. Hey, come here, big man, all that. They be trying to, they be trying to get me, and I say, no, I'm married, no. Man, I run from women all day long.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry.

• 38:30Ryan Clark?

  Everywhere you go is just so difficult.

• 38:32Channing Crowder?

  Man, if I walked up that mountain, it'd be somebody on top. "Hey Red, hey Red, what you doing later?" I'm, listen, I'm going home later.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:40Channing Crowder?

  It's hard for me.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it's not hard for me. Because I'm, I am, there are a lot of trans women. Nobody in a million years would ever know that they're trans, you know? I mean, absolutely gorgeous, transitioned well. It's not easy to do, but they're younger and they want to date and the list goes on and on and on. And I transitioned when I was 65, I'm 72 now. I'm very happy with my life. I have a lot of things going on work-wise, I have a race team. Actually, I'm waiting for her to race me back.

• 39:13Channing Crowder?

  Chloe Chambers, right?

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Chloe, yeah, little Chloe, she's my number two girl. It's her first big year, actually, right now. They're qualifying in Barcelona. I went to the Miami race, Chloe did absolutely great. But my number one girl is Jamie Chadwick and she's the two-time defending champion and she's just the real deal. This girl can drive and smart. I mean, it just, yeah, she's gonna go a long way in racing. You know, so I've got that. I've got other things I'm doing, you know, I'm just, I stay busy. And the dating thing, I've just never, you know, I have a lot of friends. I got all my kids.

• 39:53Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  I got a lot of grandkids, 20 of them, you know?

• 39:57Channing Crowder?

  20 grandkids?

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, you need some?

• 39:59Channing Crowder?

  No, I'm fine, I got three babies and yeah, they get me healthy. They started way too late, Caitlin.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  I started very young.

• 40:05Channing Crowder?

  I had to wait till I made a baby. Then I got a vasectomy, now I can't make babies. It's over for me, they just hanging there in the sack.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Well.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Well, now we go into the subject of the day. Can men get pregnant? And I keep waiting for somebody to ask me that question.

• 40:26Ryan Clark?

  I'm hoping everybody's smart enough to not ask you that question.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you very much, yes, yes. So, but no, that is just not, dating has never been, it's just like... Come on, I, I, three marriages didn't work, you know.

• 40:39Channing Crowder?

  And that's why I asked, because after the transition, and it's so, like, your life is so media-driven.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:46Channing Crowder?

  Like, you watch the Keeping Up and all that stuff, all your kids, and have that. And one thing, like, I was looking, I was like, we, do we never hear about your relationships? And that's why I asked, because I don't, like, I didn't know what, what you transitioned and what after that.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Where'd he go?

• 41:01Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, where'd you go?

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't even know where I would go, so, I kind of leave it that way.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  She's going now.

• 41:09Speaker 05

  Nothing going on there. I don't know why you keep looking over here.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, Sophia.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:18Channing Crowder?

  She kept looking over there, and I was like, like, every time she looked over there, I was like, wait, are we trying to get to?

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Sophia, Sophia and, and everybody getting.

• 41:26Speaker 05

  Not in a million years. I like Dick, let's be very clear.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, she does. Why don't you come sit over here?

• 41:37Speaker 01

  That's the one you should be talking to.

• 41:39Channing Crowder?

  I see, yeah, Mary Candy.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, come over here.

• 41:42Channing Crowder?

  Come on.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Sophia is one of the most interesting people I know, you know? She's like, I know, she's Kendall's age, she's like my daughter. But, we have become, over the last seven years, we've lived here, we run our businesses together. She manages me, she negotiates all the deals, she's the CEO of my race team. She's an economics and finance major at Pepperdine, she was the state debate champion. I mean, one of the smartest people I've ever been around.

• 42:11Channing Crowder?

  Part of the team.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  And supporting each other.

• 42:12Channing Crowder?

  Part of the team.

• 42:13Ryan Clark?

  I was gonna, I was gonna ask you that, like, who are the people that you now spend your, your time with? Is, because is, is every friend famous, you know, does, does Jay still visit? Is there a ton of crossover of Bruce's friends and Caitlin's friends?

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Most of my, my friends are crossover friends. I am not, I've never been.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  I think it's a lot because of me growing up and being gender dysphoric and this and that. I've always kind of been a loner. I mean, I trained for the Games. All by myself. I didn't even have a coach the last four years. I did it all myself. Because it was not about motivation, or I didn't need a coach to say, "Go work out." No, my problem was working out too much. Because I was so driven by it. But I've always kind of been kind of a loner in that standpoint. Never had a lot of friends.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  I think Caitlin is probably more social than Bruce ever was. But still then, I'm not that social. It's not like I'm looking for friends all the time. I have a few very close friends. And that takes up most of my time and my kids. But your kids, it's tough with kids. Because they're all grown up. They all have their own lives, they're all doing their own thing, they all have their own businesses and this and that. Where do you fit in? I remember my son, Brandon, put out a post the other day. On Instagram. And he has one girl and two young boys.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  And a friend of him told him, "The best time in your life is when your kids are young." And I have to agree with that. Even when he posted it, I called him up right after and I said, "I agree." Because that was the best time in your life. When I carpooled for almost 33 years. Carpooled kids around town. And that's where you have your conversations, you watch them, you take them here, you go there, you do things with them, you go on vacations together and everything. Now... It's like, you know, all the kids grow up and every parent goes through this, you know? And you still want that close relationship.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  But they also have their lives. That's what I did. I raised them to go out and have their own lives, you know? And they're going out, damn it, and they're having their own lives. They don't need me anymore. You know? So that always is kind of frustrating as you get a little bit older. But, you know, fortunately I have some work and those types of things, yeah.

• 45:00Fred Taylor?

  You mentioned having this fear as a youth of dyslexia. And you end up finding sport. You did almost every sport. You end up accepting a scholarship for football. I'm not sure if many people know about that. But you've done all the sports. You play golf too now, right?

• 45:17Speaker 01

  I actually went to college to play football. And then I had a

• 45:23Speaker 01

  second game. It hit me there. That was the end of that. These legs were not made to be hit. They were made to run. Okay, to not get hit. So I learned that quickly, had surgery. And then played basketball one year. Here's a trivia. Are you ready for this one? 1977 NBA draft. Fifth round.

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Got drafted into the NBA.

• 45:51Fred Taylor?

  Wow.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:52Channing Crowder?

  They had five rounds back then? Yeah, they have two rounds now, right?

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Fifth or seventh round, somewhere in there.

• 45:56Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  But yeah, at that time it was the Kansas City Kings before they moved to Sacramento.

• 46:01Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  And they said, well, we always draft the best available athlete. I was impressed. I said, okay. So I called them up.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  And I wasn't gonna play in the NBA. But I called them up and I said, this is what I'd like to do. I said, I wanna go. First home game. When I was in college and the year I played basketball for Graciel, this small NAIA school. When I was they had banned the dunk. You couldn't dunk the ball. I don't know if you guys even remember back then. But this is right after the Lu Alcindor years. Okay, and they were afraid the big guy was gonna dominate the game and this and that. So they banned the dunk, NCAA, all that stuff in college. And even in high school. And, you know, I was a 6'9" high jumper. I can put it in there.

• 46:52Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  But I was never able to do it. So I thought, I wanna go to the first home game. Make up a shirt, eighty-six, well, at that time it was eighty-six, eighteen, which was my point total in the games. Make up that number, go to the first home game, ram a bunch through.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  And then, before the game starts, we'll retire. And retire my jersey. And then we'll take that jersey and we'll auction it off. Smart. And I'll take all that money for the auction, from the auction, and buy tickets for kids in the Special Olympics to go to games. I thought that is a promotion. And they said, no.

• 47:37Ryan Clark?

  You mentioned dominating in sports. You mentioned dominating. You were the world's greatest athlete. And at that time, you also knew that you were dealing with gender identity.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:52Ryan Clark?

  Leah Thomas, I think she swims at Pennsylvania. Same thing. She is now competing against women.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Oh, boy, I know this story, yes.

• 48:03Ryan Clark?

  And there's been a ton of uproar about that. Imagine Bruce Jenner at twenty-two becoming Caitlyn Jenner then, and competing in the women's decathlon. How do you feel about trans women competing against women?

• 48:20Speaker 01

  First of all, I've been very public on this issue, right from the beginning. And my statement, right from the beginning, and I stand with it, is I don't want biological boys competing in women's sports. We have to protect women's sports. Bottom line, that's it. That's my stance. Is there more to it than that? Absolutely, there's a lot more to it. But obviously, and my issue is not with Leah Thomas.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Honestly, Leah Thomas played by the rules. She did everything she had to do. The NCAA had set up sets of rules for trans athletes. She followed them to the T.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  And went out there. Well, my problem was, it was with the NCAA. The rules are wrong. Okay, it's not fair. Rules are wrong. You know, here you had Leah, who, and I hope she just has a wonderful, happy life, and I wish her the best, this is not easy. But she went through male puberty. You know, two years earlier, she was on the men's team. She went through male puberty. She's got bigger hands, bigger part of a basket. It's a big girl, you know? And in that case, it's just not fair. I mean, it's not even, it's not fair. And it's also probably the worst publicity that the trans community can get. Because it makes the trans community look selfish, like they don't care.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  They just want to, hey, I'm a girl and I am going to, you know, swim against the girls. I really wonder what her motivation was to do that. But I hope she lives, you know, a good life. And that segment of her life is over. She's graduated, she's moving on. I don't know what she'll do from this point. But it brings up the big subject, is we have to protect, we have to protect women in sports. I don't want, you know, there's been some male to female track athletes, you know, especially in Connecticut, that were just killing all the girls, you know? And it's just, it's not fair.

• 50:28Channing Crowder?

  They're physically bigger people, like you just said, yeah.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're just, you know, bigger and, you know, they went through male puberty. And, yeah, it's just, and we gotta keep it fair. I don't want the finals of the NCAA as being a bunch of trans people. But what you have to realize is there's just... So few of them. I mean, you can count probably on one, maybe two hands, the amount of trans athletes that are competing in the United States. You know? Banning all trans athletes, not good. Because what about female to male? Nobody talks about that.

• 51:01Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  Nobody talks about it. You know? Do you mean because they're trans, they can't compete in, you know, male sports?

• 51:08Ryan Clark?

  But to be honest, Caitlyn, they're not going to make it to the NBA. They're not going to make it to the NFL.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  I agree. Actually, the highest ranked world athlete who's trans is a female to male.

• 51:21Ryan Clark?

  Who's that?

• 51:22Speaker 01

  It's a guy, a couple of years ago, he was like on the world team in the triathlon. A runner and swimmer and did all that stuff. And so, yeah, he's the highest ranked of anybody. And I think he was like three or four in the world. Yeah, which is pretty cool.

• 51:44Ryan Clark?

  No, educate me. Yeah.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty cool. But they really just seriously have to look at those issues.

• 51:50Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  I'm surprised we haven't had any political questions.

• 51:54Ryan Clark?

  Happy day, coming. We're getting there.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  I'm waiting.

• 51:57Ryan Clark?

  We're getting there.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  I'm waiting for the juicy one.

• 51:59Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, we're trying to get to Governor Caitlyn Jenner.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:03Ryan Clark?

  Who did run.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Yes, who ran.

• 52:05Ryan Clark?

  And it didn't necessarily...

• 52:06Speaker 01

  I spent five months.

• 52:07Ryan Clark?

  It didn't necessarily go your way. Do you think Bruce Jenner would have had a better opportunity to be the governor of California over Caitlyn Jenner?

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Sofia's gotta come into this conversation. Come on.

• 52:51Ryan Clark?

  She's been trying to get you on the show.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  I know, yeah. She was basically my campaign manager.

• 52:56Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 52:57Ryan Clark?

  Get you a happy day.

• 52:58Fred Taylor?

  Did you golf with Kyle and Bob?

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Sofia and I took them on and we kicked their ass.

• 53:04Fred Taylor?

  You can play, play. See, but that's the thing, though. Because I play in these celebrity scrambles and things like that. And the best team to match up with is when you have a woman that can drive it, that has the play from the red tees. That poses the question, which tees does Caitlin play from?

• 53:22Speaker 01

  That came up to the point.

• 53:24Fred Taylor?

  That's a hell of a question. That's a good question, man.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  No, that came up right after I transitioned. Oh, what tees are you gonna play from?

• 53:32Speaker 01

  I said, "I'm gonna play from the men's tees." I could still, I hit the ball 280, you know. It used to be over 300.

• 53:40Fred Taylor?

  At 72, you're hitting it at 280?

• 53:42Speaker 01

  I gotta see 'em. My last challenge, athletic challenge, is to shoot my age in golf. And I just turned 72, so that's even par around Sherwood. Not easy. I've come close to even par around Sherwood, but you know, there's one or two holes you just absolutely blow.

• 53:58Fred Taylor?

  Just live a little longer. There's something about 72. I read a quote. You said, "The 72 Olympics was the greatest sports thrill ever in your life."

• 54:08Speaker 01

  It was, because I never expected to do something like that. Went to college in a small town of 900 people in Lamone, Iowa, a place called Grayson College. Never go to an Olympics, you know? And honestly, at the trials, I didn't even think I would make it. And the trial system in the U.S. is very simple. It's top three go. They pick themselves. You could have been the best in the world, never lost a meet. You get fourth at the trials, you're not going to the games. You're done. But in this case, it worked in my favor. It came down to the last event, the 1500 meters, and I had to beat this guy by 18 seconds in the race. And I've never been so pumped up in my life for a race. I was, if I had to fucking crawl, I was gonna beat that son of a bitch by 18 seconds.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  And wound up running eight second PR.

• 54:56Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  Personal best time by eight seconds in the 15 nutter. Basically, it's a mile. And beat him by 21 seconds and made it on the team. So going to the Games was really part of my development. It was hugely important to go to the first one because you witness it. You see it, how big it is. It's bigger than anything, you know, the Games. All the countries of the world and, you know, it's just, it's ridiculous. And, uh, and because I went in 72 and watched the gold medal ceremony. I'd never seen one in person. A guy named Nikolai Avilov was on the stand. I was in 10th place, very happy with 10th, but I was in 10th. And that's when the fire started burning. That's what I want, right there.

• 55:41Speaker 05

  Like you're competing against the world. You're the best in the world, but you don't make money in the Olympics.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  There is absolutely no money.

• 55:47Speaker 05

  Nothing.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Nothing. And the gold medal's not even gold.

• 55:51Speaker 05

  What is it? Caitlin, the gold plate that you?

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Talk to Sophia, I'll be right back.

• 55:57Speaker 05

  Sophia, so what was the platform she ran on? So she had Brad Parscale run her campaign and he ran Trump's campaign in 2016. And then in 2020, before he got fired. Um, but yeah, I mean, her campaign was crazy. It was wild. Was it easy to raise money? Bruce Jenner would have won. That was the question. That was my question. I was like looking over, I'm like, oh yeah, Bruce would have won in two seconds. Two seconds because everyone loves Bruce Jenner. With Caitlin, there's a lot more baggage. And I think you also had the reality show component. So people are questioning, oh, you guys have a camera crew with you. Oh, you're filming this, you're doing this for a new reality show. Of course we are.

• 56:42Speaker 05

  Everything we do is on camera. So there was that and there was the Caitlin stuff, which I won't even get into. But Bruce would have been like Arnold Schwarzenegger. You know what I mean? Like everyone loves him. Icon, athlete, crazy, just wildly popular. But I think Caitlin had too much baggage. Not because Caitlin's a bad person, just because of who Caitlin became.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I agree with that. I, even when we got into the race and Sophia and I talked about it. Is it even possible? We've never even had a woman governor in this state. Let alone cute little me, you know? I'm obviously on the conservative side, I'm a Republican. I grew up that way, I've been a patriot. My dad landed Omaha Beach, World War II. Went all the way through the war, was buried at Arlington. 364 guys in his division and 60 came back alive to fight for our freedom. And if he could see what was happening in this country right now, he would be devastated. So I've had this thing over the last few years, because I've always been very politically motivated,

• 57:52Speaker 01

  to stand up. I want to be an example of people that stand up. This country's not going to make it if we keep going down this road. And getting involved with the governor race was, actually, I really enjoyed it. I knew it was going to be very difficult. It was very difficult raising money, and that's a money game, you know? The more you raise, the better you're going to do, you know? But that's okay, but that led to other things. And, you know, now I'm with Fox News, I'm a contributor. I've always, and especially Sofia, is very good politically.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  She, we have both the same beliefs politically.

• 58:38Speaker 05

  Yeah. And we have a lot of disagreements.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Well, we do have a few disagreements, but overall, we're both on the same side, you know? She's been doing political stuff since she was in high school.

• 58:53Ryan Clark?

  What was that, two years, two years ago? When you say the same side, you're just speaking that you both are Republicans?

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Republican, conservative. I have conservative economic values. I believe in less government, less regulations, a pro-business environment. We do not have that in the state of California. We've probably had, at this point, about 20,000 companies leave California, because you can't do business in this state, too many regulations. But socially, I'm more progressive. People do need help at times, government can play a role in that. And I agree, if it's done smart, but you can't have one without the other. You can't have social programs if you don't have an economy. You know, you can't just tax the people, you know? And that's what's happening in California.

• 59:37Channing Crowder?

  She said raising money was difficult.

• 59:40Speaker 05

  Hmm, well, I think I raised with Brad like 2 million, which was nothing. And I think Gavin Newsom raised like 150 million. He had no limits. So all of our opponents had no limits. We had limits. So that was one thing. And then another thing was people didn't want to write a check to Caitlin because they thought it was, she's gonna lose. It wasn't necessarily hard to raise money. I think it was just hard for anyone to win that election. So everybody had a hard time raising money. But I mean, 2 million bucks in like, I think, 2 and 1/2 months, it's not terrible. But I don't think anybody in that election could have raised as much money.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, in that game, you gotta have 50 million, you know? You gotta be on television all day long. And we didn't have that kind of backing. But what I had is, I can get all the free publicity in the world, you know? Every television station, every place you go, they all want you on camera, they all wanted to. So we worked that angle. We tried to get all the free stuff we could get, get out there and do the best we possibly can.

• 1:00:45Channing Crowder?

  Caitlin, your team and it's the trans community, your transition and your team and having Sophia, and we laughed earlier, you were like, you like penis. But like, like.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  She didn't say that. They're getting very personal.

• 1:00:58Channing Crowder?

  I was saying, what's the dynamic with your team? And it's different because like, I have attorneys, CPAs and all these guys. But then as the transition, is it weird, I guess? Or like, what's that dynamic with you and Sophia and you and your team?

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  We're just best of friends.

• 1:01:17Channing Crowder?

  That's cool.

• 1:01:17Speaker 05

  It's like mafia style. If you fuck with our businesses, and we have the CPAs and the attorneys and all that. But I run all of that and I do my own stuff, but I also do her stuff. But. If you fuck with us, we're gonna fuck you back 10 times as hard. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's mafia. The whole Black China thing, which I'm not gonna talk a lot about, but she fucked with everyone, and look what happened to her. Loser, lost in court, in the court of public opinion with the jury, and the court of public opinion, like, with the press. So if you fuck with us, like, we fuck, fuck you back. And it's like mafia. That's how I feel. And that's how we run all of our businesses. And we get on the same page, and we do what we're gonna do. But we're also friends, of course.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, we do it in a good way. But people in business and everything will try to take advantage of you, and this and that. And honestly, me, I'm not strong. Or, you know, I've been taken advantage of by so many people in my, in my life, you know, because I'm too soft, I'm too easy.

• 1:02:21Channing Crowder?

  You're a nice person.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  I've had people say, I've had people say, you know, all the time, "You're too nice for a business."

• 1:02:29Channing Crowder?

  She is not.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  She is not.

• 1:02:33Channing Crowder?

  Does she have a gun?

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, she's got one, yeah.

• 1:02:37Channing Crowder?

  Because I don't want you to have a gun in your hand.

• 1:02:41Channing Crowder?

  You'll shoot the shit out of somebody.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  When she moved here, right out of college,

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  because I had a whole section in the back of the house, she could just stay there. And it was great, because I needed company, too. And

• 1:02:58Speaker 05

  And free rent.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  I told her, I said, "I got a gun in the house, and you gotta know how to use it." And she goes, "I don't wanna go. What do you mean? I gotta go shoot a gun." And I'm going, "Yeah, we're gonna go to the firing range. We're gonna take the gun, and we're gonna shoot the hell out of it, okay? And you're gonna know how to load it, and you're gonna know how to get it going." And, yeah, so, anyway, I take her up there. And she goes, "Oh, okay, give me the gun." And we got instructors and all these, it's a great place to play, all these targets out there.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  She was there an hour. I couldn't get her away. She wouldn't leave. "One more time, one more time." You know, she's out there.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  You know? She's banging in the new clip, yeah. Boom, boom, you know? So she knows how to use the gun.

• 1:03:44Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, she knows how to use the gun.

• 1:03:46Channing Crowder?

  To put that strong team around you is something that you, like, you consciously do that.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  I need a strong team around, because I'm not that strong. I, I, I'm too easy. People, you know, kind of walk over you at times. And that's why I need a Sophia in my life.

• 1:04:02Channing Crowder?

  And you realize that, and you know that as well, as a part of the team.

• 1:04:05Speaker 05

  When I joined and took things over, by the way, Chris did the same thing, Kris Jenner, when they got together, married. Not that I'm comparing myself to Chris. But when they got married, he was broke. Dead ass broke. And when I kind of entered the scene with Caitlyn, like, six, seven years ago, Caitlyn was not broke, but she was, like, not a business person. She was making all this money and then spending it all on all these people. I'm like, what the hell are you doing, spending, you know, this much a month on this and this much a month on that? So I kind of saw a problem and fixed it and took over and started, you know, making sure that all the money that's coming in is, you know, being used appropriately,

• 1:04:48Speaker 05

  not being taken advantage of, but also that we're retaining it, because it was just bleeding. And so we kind of revamped the business and revamped the career, because in my opinion, it, you were on the same way, on the same track, down to going broke, if you didn't, you know, cut the bills down.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, if I didn't.

• 1:05:08Speaker 05

  And it's crazy, because you hear about all these celebrities and athletes that make these millions of dollars and they get rich quick and their incomes are so high, but they blow it. And they blow it on stupid shit. And that's what I saw happening. And so I just kind of said, okay, we're gonna...

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  Economics and finance major, everybody needs one.

• 1:05:28Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, everybody needs one.

• 1:05:31Channing Crowder?

  And the checks and balance system, that's what people need. They need the person to say no. A lot of guys, and the athlete thing, a lot of guys don't have anybody in their life that says no.

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  Drives me crazy.

• 1:05:41Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:41Fred Taylor?

  You know, Sophia mentioned this mafia-style mentality, you know, in a fun way. And she mentioned Black China, and we don't have to go into details, but was she ever truly, really a threat?

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  No, there was just ways for her to get publicity.

• 1:05:55Fred Taylor?

  Clout chasing?

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  You know, lawyers to make money. Sofia is much better at this.

• 1:06:00Speaker 05

  Well, I don't, obviously, we weren't involved in the case, and we didn't talk to anyone about the case.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, fortunately.

• 1:06:05Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  Our name was never on that one.

• 1:06:07Speaker 05

  But she's, she's a loser.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  When you're out there like that, or especially the girls who are, you know, out there, you get those crazy people. I mean, we've, we've had times where...

• 1:06:20Speaker 05

  There's leeches everywhere. When you're rich and/or people think that you're loaded, they all go after you. They sue you, they do everything. Like what China did was just another one. It just happened to be a celebrity, and she didn't, she wanted it to go to court, so she got her, you know, her press.

• 1:06:35Fred Taylor?

  We've been talking about the girls and the gender boys. How's Rob?

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Honestly, I didn't hardly talk to him. I tried, I reached out. A year, year and a half ago. I knew he was going through tough times. I had a very close relationship with Rob when he was growing up. And I knew he was going through some problems. And because of this Black China deal, because he brought Black China into the family and has a child with her. And then she's suing the rest of the family, and they're going to court.

• 1:07:11Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  You know, how bad do you feel that you brought this person into the family? Look what the hell she's doing. So I reached out to him, and we've been talking. Excellent talking. We're gonna get together here pretty soon. And so, actually, that's, I'm very happy for that. You know, I'm, I'm happy. Rob is, is a great kid. Had just great potential, but just went through some real tough times.

• 1:07:34Fred Taylor?

  Right, right.

• 1:07:34Channing Crowder?

  I gotta pivot. That's, this, this shows genesis of it. You brought that gold medal out? That's not gold?

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  Have you ever seen an Olympic gold medal?

• 1:07:43Channing Crowder?

  I've never seen a gold medal.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Have you seen an Olympic gold medal?

• 1:07:45Fred Taylor?

  Nah.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  We'll have to get pictures before we leave, but yes, that is an Olympic gold medal.

• 1:07:53Fred Taylor?

  But it's not gold.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like a gold alloy on the outside. You know, they gotta give away.

• 1:07:58Channing Crowder?

  Oh, no, look. They give away a ton of them, though.

• 1:08:00Fred Taylor?

  That's real blank. You don't need no diamonds.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  I used to do that when, when some of the kids, you know, boys that were rappers back then, you know, they come in, they got the chains all working, you know.

• 1:08:13Fred Taylor?

  You break that out.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  Walk out with the gold medal. I come walking out, I go in the thing, get that, put it on. I said, "That's real blank."

• 1:08:20Fred Taylor?

  Wow. This is a good, this is a good year. This is a great year. This was the year I was born.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  Was it the year you were born?

• 1:08:27Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:27Channing Crowder?

  Well, I'm mesmerized. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm starstruck by holding a gold medal. Does that still bring you joy?

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does. But it's part of my life I worked very hard for. But life has moved on to kind of some of the more important issues in life. This is just sports, you know? But they can never take this away from you. I remember walking out of the stadium that night, and I was telling you earlier about just, I was so satisfied. Just the feeling of satisfaction.

• 1:08:57Channing Crowder?

  Best in the fucking world.

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, and nobody can ever take it away.

• 1:09:01Fred Taylor?

  Is that the fondest memory Caitlyn has of Bruce?

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Because, see, I wasn't shocked I won. I hadn't lost a meet in three years. And so I was the unanimous favorite to win. So I went in with, "Don't fuck it up."

• 1:09:15Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  You know? And get my 8,600 points. That was the last thing I wanted to do. Break the world record, be the first guy over 8,600. And then being able to accomplish that and walk away, it was just like, "Yeah, I'm happy. I'm a happy dad."

• 1:09:32Fred Taylor?

  At the podium.

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  I'm a happy dad.

• 1:09:34Fred Taylor?

  You could have had these at the stand, at the podium back in the day. It would have been perfect.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, see, I could have had one. Yeah, the boys would have loved it if I had this on the podium, wouldn't they?

• 1:09:45Ryan Clark?

  You have been absolutely amazing. You know, I think when we started this journey, if you told us we'd get an opportunity to sit down

• 1:09:55Ryan Clark?

  with Caitlyn Jenner and talk about her life and all the things she's accomplished, all the things she's been through, and also meet Sophia, I'd have told you, you're a damn fool.

• 1:10:05Fred Taylor?

  The pit bull.

• 1:10:06Ryan Clark?

  Pit bull mafia style.

• 1:10:07Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:08Ryan Clark?

  You guys have this, this family that is blended, that is extremely successful, that is extremely public. And I think people understand now, you know, that you messed with that family, what happens. But you are a huge part, and are a huge part of, of who they are, the things that they've accomplished. And I know you're sweet and you're kind and you're nice, but I think you need to remember that you did some dope stuff, too. And so cheers to you. Happy Dad. We appreciate you. Thank you so much.

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  Thank you. My pleasure.

• 1:10:41Fred Taylor?

  Before we wrap, though, I, I really, I really have something.

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  Hit me with a question.

• 1:10:44Fred Taylor?

  That I want to end with. Because I think you made the biggest pivot. You know, overcame your fears from being a child to your adult life and really saying, you know what? I'm, I want to be free. What's your message to the young Bruce's that had the gender dysmorphic, yeah, the identity problem? What's your biggest message to them?

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  Don't be in a rush, number one. It's not easy to do. It affects a lot of people. What bothers me right now is because this word transgender has become just so big and it's on the news every night and it's such a small part of our communities that don't let all this get away. Take your time. Do what's right. Do what's right for you. Every journey is different. Mine's so different, but it still happens. Other kids at a very young age

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  are, are struggling with these issues. And just be smart. This, it's not a rush. It's not like it's all going to happen right now. You gotta just, you gotta know that this is the right thing to do. And, and it's not easy to figure out. There's a lot of people involved, family, friends, everything. And honestly, don't silence yourself.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  And I mean by suicide is big.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  Right after I came out, I went to San Diego and met with a family. Whose son, female to male.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  He was sixteen. And committed suicide. And the parents were model parents. They were doing everything right. He had friends, he had this, that. But he just couldn't deal with it. He couldn't deal with society. All the things that go along with it. He was on suicide watch. And still went into the bathroom, bathtub, because he didn't want to make a mess and bled out. You know? And two weeks after he had passed. The parents got his

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  new birth certificate with gender marker M. They went all the way back to his, you know, get all his documentation done. And he was just a really good kid, but he just, he couldn't take it. So we don't want that. You can get through it. If, hey, if I can get through this publicly. You can get through anything. Okay? You can get through anything.

• 1:13:20Fred Taylor?

  Alright. So again, thank you. Appreciate Happy Dad for hooking us up. I'm gonna drink a few of them.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  Little Happy Dad, hooking us up.

• 1:13:27Channing Crowder?

  Cheers.

• 1:13:27Fred Taylor?

  Appreciate it. Kate, thank you so much.

• 1:13:29Channing Crowder?

  You wanna go have a coffee on the back porch?

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Go out there, sit there and watch.

• 1:13:34Fred Taylor?

  No, you got them big ass dogs.

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  Just foggy as hell.

• 1:13:36Channing Crowder?

  I am definitely not going out there with them dogs.

• 1:13:38Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, them dogs too big.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  Well, that was fun.

• 1:14:05Speaker 06

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:14:15Speaker 07

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