Winning is EVERYTHING w/ Tim Grover

When the BEST ATHLETES in the world want to train with the BEST TRAINER in the world, they work out with Tim Grover. You want to know what it’s like to train MICHAEL JORDAN and KOBE BRYANT? You want to know what sets them and other next-level performers apart from high achievers with just as many gifts and talents? Tim Grover has the ANSWERS. Tim founded ATTACK Athletics, Inc. in 1989 and since that time, he has worked with hundreds of NFL, MLB, NBA, and Olympic athletes including Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. He is also the best-selling author of RELENTLESS: From Good to Great to Unstoppable, JUMP ATTACK, and his newly released book, W1NNING. Widely considered the preeminent authority on the science and art of physical and mental dominance, Tim is a highly sought-after keynote speaker around the world and a consultant to top business leaders, athletes, and elite achievers in every area. Tim is one of my oldest and dearest friends so it was easy to get him to talk about the nature of FAME, what it takes to be the absolute best, GRIT VS. GLAMOUR, and why it’s not necessarily easy when you do reach the top. Tim is also uniquely qualified to tell stories about how Kobe lived his life and what you can take from his MAMBA MENTALITY. We had a lot of good laughs but we also covered some tough things too. Tim shares how he felt when he found out Kobe was gone, why it’s lonely when you’re ultra-successful, and how to CONQUER your doubts, fears, and flaws and turn them into mentally DOMINANT advantages. Straight up, this is HONEST talk from the best in the business. Tim Grover has been there and he’s got WISDOM and STORIES you won’t want to miss. 👉 SUBSCRIBE TO ED'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW 👈 → → → CONNECT WITH ED MYLETT ON SOCIAL MEDIA: ← ← ← ▶︎ INSTAGRAM ▶︎ FACEBOOK ▶︎ LINKEDIN ▶︎ TWITTER ▶︎ WEBSITE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ed Mylett?

  I hear so many small business owners say the exact same thing. They just never have enough time in the day. Well, I measure time differently. I've compressed, condensed, heck, I've bent time. My first day is 6:00 a.m. to noon. My second day starts at noon and goes till 6:00 P.M. And my third day, 6:00 P.M. to midnight. I now get 21 days a week. Stack that up over a month, over a year, over five years, and my life's completely different than it would have been otherwise. And if you want to win as an entrepreneur, you have to compress your time, too. And you definitely can't afford to waste it. Waiting weeks on a big bank for capital? Your best bet's to work with my friends at Cardiff. They know how to compress time for entrepreneurs. They get your business approved in minutes and funded the very same day. They're America's favorite small business lender, and for good reason.

• 0:45Ed Mylett?

  Over 20 years in business, over $12 billion deployed to small business across America. Stop letting bank delays slow down your momentum. Head to cardiff.co/ed. That's cardiff.co/ed. Cardiff.co. Real growth, fast funding. Cardiff. Borrow better.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company, for me, of the explosion on our rig.

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  On October 2nd.

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  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

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  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

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  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze to death, that's what.

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  With great power comes great deniability.

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  I'm not the first nanny.

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  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 1:39Speaker 03

  This is The Ed Milat Show.

• 1:48Ed Mylett?

  Welcome back to Max Out, everybody. Today, I have a great friend to share some time with. We're also gonna share some tequila together today throughout the show. But this is one of my best friends. This is somebody that, here's what I would say. When I think of man, if you look up man in the dictionary, I see Tim Grover. He's a good man, he's a real man. He's got an unbelievable experiences of his life. His first book, Relentless, has sold nearly a million copies. And he's got a new book out, Winning, which I think is even better. And that's saying a lot when all you know, top five books of all time I recommend, Relentless is on that list. And I'm telling you, I think this book is even better. Because it's about, flat out to the point about what we all want to do in our life, which is winning. And he's an expert on it.

• 2:32Ed Mylett?

  So, Tim Grover, welcome back to the show, brother.

• 2:35Tim Grover?

  Thank you so much.

• 2:36Ed Mylett?

  Cheers.

• 2:37Tim Grover?

  You know what? I can end the show right there.

• 2:41Tim Grover?

  Thank you, my life.

• 2:42Ed Mylett?

  Well, you know, I mean it, so.

• 2:43Tim Grover?

  That's what's, that's what's unique about it. That's, that's why I said I could end the show right there. Because you don't give accolades out very easily. I don't either.

• 2:54Ed Mylett?

  I know you don't.

• 2:54Tim Grover?

  And they're very difficult for both of us to accept.

• 2:57Ed Mylett?

  I see it on your face, actually.

• 2:58Tim Grover?

  Yeah, they're very difficult for both of us to accept. So, cheers.

• 3:01Ed Mylett?

  I love you, brother. Uh, well, we got a lot to talk about today. Here's the great thing. There doesn't need to be any intro, because when people find out you and I are doing this together, like, they're already sharing the show from like, one minute into it. Everyone on the planet's like, sharing this thing. So, I love this topic, but you've been, as most of you know, if you don't know, Tim's been instrumental in a lot of winning in his life with a lot of different people. Obviously, probably best known for your work with Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant. And you start out the book, I read the book cover to cover in one setting. I told you this. I read every single word of it.

• 3:31Tim Grover?

  Which didn't surprise me, we knew you would. Prepare, preparation.

• 3:36Ed Mylett?

  Preparation, and by the way, it was just good. I'm learning, right? I'm learning. But the beginning of the book, guys, this is unbelievable story about your last conversation with Kobe Bryant. Just your relationship with him, because I think a winner, I do think of Kobe and MJ. 11 championships between them. Tell everybody a little bit about that conversation.

• 3:53Tim Grover?

  You know, Kobe and I, we text often. He was no longer playing ba- he was no longer playing basketball. He had moved into the business world. Already won an Oscar, wrote an amazing children's book. And we text back and forth. We tried to see each other. He was busy, I was busy. And I'd say, "How you doing?" He'd be, "I'm good. How you doing?" And we, "I'm chasing the next win." He's chasing the next win. And we were going to get together. The All-Star game was going to be in Chicago. And our plan was, he was going to come in town, you know, to support and some business stuff and so forth. So we had planned to get together. And he said he'll text me when I'm in town. I said, "Hey, I'm not going anywhere." And...

• 4:38Ed Mylett?

  Sorry, brother.

• 4:41Ed Mylett?

  I'm the only guy who gets Tim Grover to cry on the show.

• 4:47Ed Mylett?

  You're good.

• 4:48Tim Grover?

  It never happened.

• 4:50Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 4:52Tim Grover?

  It never happened.

• 4:54Ed Mylett?

  He said something to you at the end of that conversation too, right? About, something about winning, or "I'm going to keep winning," or something like that. It actually came...

• 5:01Tim Grover?

  Chasing the next win?

• 5:03Ed Mylett?

  Chasing the next win.

• 5:05Tim Grover?

  Chasing the next win?

• 5:06Ed Mylett?

  What was it like for you, Tim? Because obviously, the emotion on your face is, this is not Tim. You're not a crier.

• 5:13Tim Grover?

  No.

• 5:13Ed Mylett?

  What, I'm curious what, when you heard the news originally... By the way, I was with him the week before. Is that crazy? I'll have to tell you that in a minute. But, um, did you just not believe it? Or was it just like the breath left your body, or...

• 5:26Tim Grover?

  So what happened was, you know, I get, I get some information. Somebody shoots me a text. I was like, "Oh, fake news. This is not true. This is not true." And then more media comes in, more people, then people that were like really close to him, like out in the LA area and so forth, said, "Hey, I just want to let you know that this is..." And I was like, "I- I- it can't be. It can't be." It didn't hit me until like, three days later.

• 5:53Ed Mylett?

  Really?

• 5:54Tim Grover?

  Three days. I was just like literally sleeping. And I got up in the middle of the night. And I was just like...

• 6:04Tim Grover?

  He's gone.

• 6:06Tim Grover?

  Because you just didn't want to believe it. You just, you just didn't want to believe it.

• 6:11Ed Mylett?

  Do you think, because obviously you being such a close confidant of his, and I get what you mean, like, time happens in life. You're not texting every single day. You're both busy guys. But you don't have to when you're great friends. You and I even, we text a lot, but even when we don't for a month or two, it's like,

• 6:26Tim Grover?

  It's not personal. It's never personal. Like, you're busy, hey, your success comes in, send your thumbs up, everybody. You, you, you don't have to text anybody when they know that you're actually excited for every win they get and every win that you get. You're like, they, they already know, they already know you're there for them. Now, when they do something exceptional, you're like, hey, I just saw what you did, or something funny. But yeah, exactly.

• 6:48Ed Mylett?

  I think something with him, like, because it grips so many people that are even basketball fans. I think it's when someone lives so full out, that when they're no longer living, the impact of that passing is greater for some reason. I mean, he was so alive.

• 7:03Tim Grover?

  So, to make the transition from winning on the basketball court to winning in the business environment, and then he got, you got a chance to see, you know, when he was no longer that basketball player, how close he was with his family.

• 7:17Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Tim Grover?

  You know, how he supported, how he supported everyone, you know, his daughter's basketball games and the volleyball games and everything. It was just like, he was a much approachable person. You know, everybody used to see this rigid individual on the court, and he was so much, he was smiling, and he was talking to other players and so forth. I always say that his next move, his next win was, he had two things he wanted to do. And I have no proof of this, but just knowing his mentality, one was, he wanted his daughter to be the first female to play in the NBA.

• 7:58Ed Mylett?

  No kidding.

• 7:58Tim Grover?

  Not the WNBA, the NBA.

• 8:01Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 8:01Tim Grover?

  That's what he was getting, that's what he was getting her ready for. And the second one was like, he was like, I already own

• 8:10Tim Grover?

  LA from a basketball standpoint.

• 8:13Tim Grover?

  I want to erase the basketball thing. I want to own LA.

• 8:16Ed Mylett?

  No kidding. He was that driven to continue to win.

• 8:19Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 8:19Ed Mylett?

  Which is the theme in the book. See, I'm gonna tell you, you'd be proud of him, by the way, because I know you were, there's Interment, and I did not know Kobe well. But our daughters played in the same volleyball league. So the week before he passed, we were in the same gym.

• 8:31Tim Grover?

  I remember you telling this story.

• 8:32Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, three, and ends up, these volleyball tournaments are long, as you know, being a volleyball dad, right?

• 8:36Tim Grover?

  Yes, they are.

• 8:37Ed Mylett?

  But anyway, long story short, there's three dads left. It's almost 10 o'clock at night left in this gym. Me, him, and another dude, who's a good friend of mine. And it was just striking for me, I watched this, it's the black mom, who messes with a killer, right? But I watched him, and I have no idea why, it like really struck me. I'm always evaluating, you and I talk about it.

• 8:56Tim Grover?

  Yeah.

• 8:56Ed Mylett?

  Am I a good dad? How's your daughter? You know, like, we're always evaluating these things. And, and I watched him, other end of the gym. I watched him with his daughter, and he's carrying the baby in his one arm. And just, the game was over, and he was like, kind of just caressing his other daughter's back, just watching it. And I remember literally going, "I don't hug Bella enough. Like, I don't hug her enough," you know? And he was such, I mean, because he's a man, he's a flawed man. It was a guy had, he really changed, you know? That's something to be so proud of. Anyway, long story short, because to me, that's winning. Winning is improvement. Winning is growing. Winning is ultimately, he was a better man on his last day than he was in the middle of his career.

• 9:35Tim Grover?

  Correct. And when you said flawed, everybody thinks of flawed as a negative. We're all flawed.

• 9:43Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 9:43Tim Grover?

  We are all flawed. Accept it, use it, learn from it, and be like, okay, this is who I am. This is who I am. I'm not trying to be somebody else. What's, what's your flaws, and what makes you exceptional, that will make you different. That's what allows you to win where other people don't want to win. There's the people that can say, "Hey, we're flawed. We've both wrote bestseller books." And people won't know this about, they know this about me, but you shared this when we were at Arate Syndicate one time. You can't spell.

• 10:20Ed Mylett?

  That's totally true.

• 10:21Tim Grover?

  And I can't either.

• 10:23Ed Mylett?

  Such a great point.

• 10:25Tim Grover?

  Yeah, okay, those are our flaws and what do we do? We just laugh at it.

• 10:28Ed Mylett?

  And we write bestselling books.

• 10:29Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 10:31Ed Mylett?

  That's all I never even thought of that.

• 10:32Tim Grover?

  We laugh at it. I got knocked out in a spelling bee, which is in the book. And the word they asked me to spell was ham.

• 10:46Ed Mylett?

  That's so awesome dude.

• 10:48Tim Grover?

  It was ham.

• 10:50Ed Mylett?

  That is so awesome. I'm crying. So you cried on sad stuff, I cry on fun stuff. I just, I just, you know, I think about it, man, like you say something in the book. There's all these lessons and they're all listed like as number one, which I like too. He's like, hey, there's not 21, there's not 28, there's like, there's just an unlimited list of things.

• 11:06Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 11:06Ed Mylett?

  Compiled on this book and winning. And it made me think of Kobe because, you know, when he walked out of the gym that day, I've said this to you too, but he had six days left to live. And I just, you know, what if the world would have, if he could just have a whisper when he got into that car with his family that night? Kobe, six days left to live.

• 11:23Tim Grover?

  Yeah.

• 11:24Ed Mylett?

  Three days later, Kobe, three more days. Three more days. That's Saturday prior. Kobe, one day left. You know, and the one thing I do feel like about people that win is in the book, because Kobe was doing this to the very end, you talk about the sprint versus marathon thing on winning. Just talk about that, because I think Kobe did that till right in the last moment.

• 11:46Tim Grover?

  Right at, right at the end, you know, Kobe had this great line that he used to use all the time. He goes, rest at the end, not in the middle. Rest at the end, not in the middle. So to me, life and winning is a bunch of sprints within a marathon.

• 12:05Ed Mylett?

  It's a fact.

• 12:06Tim Grover?

  Yeah, a bunch of sprints within a marathon. And you can't see the end line. Like in a marathon, you know where the end line is. And winning. That win, that race may have an end line, but there's another start line right after it.

• 12:21Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 12:21Tim Grover?

  For people that are really driven, and this is not about money, and this isn't about fame, this is about, you could be winning as a schoolteacher, you can be winning as an entrepreneur, you can be winning in business, you can be winning as an athlete, as a waiter, whatever it is, a waitress, whatever it is. It's that every single time you sprint to that finish line, there's another start line that's coming. And that's why it never ends. It's a marathon that just keeps going, going, and going. And I try to tell people, listen, I'm not an avid runner. I used to be in my much younger days, not avid, I used to enjoy it.

• 13:02Tim Grover?

  You see the times of the best marathons, they're running-

• 13:07Ed Mylett?

  Insane.

• 13:08Tim Grover?

  Insane.

• 13:09Ed Mylett?

  Insane. They're basically sprinting.

• 13:11Tim Grover?

  They're basically, they're sprinting. They are, they are sprinting.

• 13:15Ed Mylett?

  I think that's, it's one of the things, Tim, that you say in the book that I think is like, super profound is that I think a lot of people like, think there's some pacing to winning. But the truth is, there's not really pacing, is there? The best are full speed, knowing it's a long race, but it's, there's only really one gear for them. Or am I wrong about that?

• 13:32Tim Grover?

  No, no, you're absolutely, you're absolutely, you're absolutely right. But everyone looks at the physical condition. Are you mentally prepared to sprint every single day? Are you mentally prepared to sprint every single day? And for how long? Because somebody else is sprinting. You don't want them to get what should be your win, ends up being somebody else's win. And everyone says, hard work, now we'll get you closer to that win. How many individuals have you known that you've outworked and they got that win?

• 14:09Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, right.

• 14:10Tim Grover?

  Winning has no loyalty to you, it has no loyalty to me, it has no loyalty to anybody. You can outwork somebody, you can outstudy them, you can do all these different things.

• 14:19Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 14:20Tim Grover?

  You can apply for a job and somebody who's less qualified ends up getting that job. So winning has no loyalty to you.

• 14:28Ed Mylett?

  This is, this is where the book is so, I call it like hardcore because that's your style too. It's like, look, there's so many things in the book where you talk like that about, you know, hey, listen, winning doesn't care about you. Winning, winning will lift you up and then slap you back down again, right? There's all of these unbelievable, and I think as somebody who wants to win more, I've done some winning, who wants to win more. When you read it, if you've had any wins in your life, confirmation of truth, when you read something that you know is true, it just instantly sits on you as a fact, right? And so here's one of the things you say in the book. You say, but I mean, all over the book, I'm highlighting and writing stuff down. For people I know, for myself, I read this to Max last night about 1 a.m.

• 15:13Ed Mylett?

  He goes, daddy, I said, wake up, I'm reading Grover's book. He's like, bring it back with you tonight, which I'm gonna do, but.

• 15:18Tim Grover?

  You give him this one.

• 15:19Ed Mylett?

  Okay, I will give him the clean one. Thank you. Winning requires you to be different and different scares people. So if you're worried about what others will say, the long-term effects, the sacrifices you'll make, the sleep you lose, your family being angry, I can't help you with that. There's nothing, quote, typical about lifestyle and choices you have to make. Winning is an inside, winning is inside all of us, but for most, that's where it will stay. Trapped under a lifetime of fear and worry and doubt. The race, to speak of the sprint, to greatness has no rules to protect you. Nothing says you're gonna lose, you're gonna get, you're not gonna get, nothing says you're not gonna lose, nothing says you're not gonna get hurt. You're not gonna do all this work for nothing. There's no guarantee it'll be fair. Most likely, it will not be fair.

• 16:02Ed Mylett?

  You'll lose at the buzzer, you'll lose to someone who didn't work as hard as you did. You lose on a bad call or a bad place, someone else will get the job. A pandemic will wipe out your season, your bank account, your career. Yet, the prize at the end of that race remains so compelling, so addictive, so gorgeous, we keep running and stumbling and sacrificing and competing to catch it. It's exactly what you're talking about, right?

• 16:23Tim Grover?

  It's exactly what I'm talking about. You just, it's.

• 16:28Tim Grover?

  I couldn't describe it any other way. You just look at it. It's not, everybody says, how many times you've heard it? It's not fair. It's not supposed to be fair. It's not, it's not supposed to be fair. Winning is not supposed to be fair. Life is not fair. There's nothing that's going to guarantee you that win. It's, but the only thing that's going to guarantee you that loss is if you don't get in this race. How many people, and you talk about this all the time, about the fears and the emotions and like, you know, just getting, just going for it, just like here it is. Look at yourself. You've moved three different times in probably the last six months,

• 17:10Tim Grover?

  for whatever reasons you've had, alright? And you've literally packed up and moved, like here I'm going, here I'm going, here. You got people that won't move themselves out of a chair. You've literally moved families' lives. And, and there's literally a fear behind every single one of those, but there was no doubt.

• 17:31Ed Mylett?

  Right. That's really well said.

• 17:33Tim Grover?

  There was no doubt. Everything that you've done, and everything that I've done, there's always been a little fear. And the fear is what allows us to be like, you know what? I'm gonna throw myself over the ledge. I'm going, I'm going, I'm going to do this, but I have no doubt of what the end result is going to be.

• 17:50Ed Mylett?

  It's so amazing you say that. I was with a group of guys, influencers, one of them you were with this morning, about four weeks ago. It kinda went around the table like, what moves you? And one guy's like, hey, my dreams, you know, my confidence, my this. And so it got to me, and I think probably at that, well, anyway, I'll just say that at that table, I kinda, I just say, hey, I'll be honest with you, I'm still afraid. I'm still afraid. They're like, you're afraid? You got this? You got that? I said, no, man, I'm still afraid. And it's a real afraid. It's not something I'm trying to conjure up. It's like a real afraid that I have. However, I actually think successful people have this really unique nuance of like, tons of self-confidence, combined with enough humility to want to keep working and learning. It's a really unique, we both know people that are super confident, but don't have that dose of humility,

• 18:35Ed Mylett?

  where they want to work hard and want to be coached, right? And then you also have the people with all the humility in the world, but they don't have the confidence, and they're not going to win either, right?

• 18:43Tim Grover?

  And you have, you- Coach people at all different levels. Your most successful people are your most coachable.

• 18:51Ed Mylett?

  A fact.

• 18:52Tim Grover?

  Fact.

• 18:53Ed Mylett?

  What about when you would train Kobe, you say something in the book, like when you first met him, the first workouts or whatever, like he didn't want you to make it easy on him. He had no expectation about it, right?

• 19:01Tim Grover?

  No, I mean, just like, hey, listen, and the thing that he said was unique about this. When we were starting to work out, one of the reporters asked him, said, oh, you hired Tim Grover, Michael's training, he goes, well, what have you, how do you feel about that? Kobe, and I'm gonna use a little language here, he goes, I don't know, he ain't done shit for me. He goes, I'm not gonna judge him by what he did last time. I wanna know what he's done, what he's done for me. We relish that.

• 19:30Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, you, do you relish what Jordan told him about you?

• 19:32Tim Grover?

  Oh, yes.

• 19:33Ed Mylett?

  Tell him, it's okay, sell the language, remember what Jordan said about you to him?

• 19:36Tim Grover?

  Yeah, so he just said.

• 19:37Ed Mylett?

  Kobe asked him, what about this guy?

• 19:39Tim Grover?

  What about, he goes, he really knows his stuff, but he goes, he's the biggest asshole you'll ever meet.

• 19:44Ed Mylett?

  That's a great compliment, right?

• 19:46Tim Grover?

  It's a great compliment, it's a great compliment, because how many people, when they're, when they meet winners.

• 19:55Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 19:56Tim Grover?

  Fold. They become yes men, yes people.

• 19:59Ed Mylett?

  Yes, yep, exactly.

• 20:01Tim Grover?

  And then you have to be the person that holds them accountable. And it's funny, I just, as you said earlier, I call people out, I want people to call me out on my bullshit, I call them out on their bullshit.

• 20:14Ed Mylett?

  You've done it with me before.

• 20:15Tim Grover?

  Yeah, I have, I do, I do it with everyone, and I do it not out of a place, out of hate, not jealous or anything like that, listen. The one thing that you've offered me that no one's ever offered me is your, is the access to your jet.

• 20:33Tim Grover?

  All right, now, if I would've came, when I put you in check, if that was coming out of hate. That offer wouldn't be there. You know it's coming out of love.

• 20:45Ed Mylett?

  100%. By the way, you also have helped my son, unselfishly. And by the way, never told me that you were doing it. Only through him do I find these things out that Tim does. That's what I meant by a real man. I think the winners have this thing. By the way, you should use it. You're the type of person that will never take me up on it, and you should. But I have to tell you guys that I think one of the things that the winners have is they lose this expectation that's going to be easy. They lose the expectation that they're going to be liked. They lose the expectation that it's going to be perfect. Like, once you've sort of given up, you've actually surrendered to the fact, this is not going to be easy. People aren't going to like me. I am going to be judged. I am going to be disliked. It's not all that bad when it starts happening to you.

• 21:20Tim Grover?

  And that's what winning's about. In order to win, you have, those are all the things that are in the unforgiving race. So you already know they're there. You know they're there. And then people are still distracted by it. You know everything that you just mentioned is in this race. So if you already know it's there, you know what your opponents are. Deal with it.

• 21:42Ed Mylett?

  You also, though, like, there's a level even past that. Like, every time I'm reading the book, I'm like, okay, oh, there's another level, another level, another level. And you articulate it. You've been up close, and you're including yourself, to like, the biggest winners in, in sports. So like, there's layers to this that only someone in that type of proximity to it would know too. But so many people are governed, like, what we're really describing right now is they're governed by their emotions.

• 22:07Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 22:08Ed Mylett?

  Their emotions rule their lives, right? And you talk in the book about mindset and thoughts being bigger and more important than that. So this is so huge, what he's about to share with you right now, because right now, some of you, you're driving right now, or you're on a treadmill somewhere, or you're watching this on YouTube, and you're being governed by your emotions. It's literally dictating the direction of your life, your effort, your belief level, your confidence, all of it. But the highest level winners do what?

• 22:35Tim Grover?

  Your mind has to be stronger than your feelings.

• 22:40Tim Grover?

  Your mind has to be stronger than your feelings. Think about every poor decision you've made in your life.

• 22:48Tim Grover?

  There was more emotion that was involved in it than there was mine. Every single one of them. Think about it.

• 22:55Ed Mylett?

  Really wise.

• 22:55Tim Grover?

  Your feelings keep you in bed.

• 22:59Tim Grover?

  Your mind tells you, get up.

• 23:03Tim Grover?

  Think about it. Every single day, your mind is the one that tells you, get up. And your feelings like, eh, an extra thirty minutes, just roll this, don't worry about it.

• 23:13Ed Mylett?

  I could tell you this, every bad decision I made has been ruled by emotion. When you just said that.

• 23:18Tim Grover?

  You and I have both.

• 23:20Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 23:20Tim Grover?

  You and I both.

• 23:23Ed Mylett?

  You're making me think.

• 23:24Tim Grover?

  Every single one, your mind has to be stronger than your feelings. Listen, it's not the popular decision, you are gonna hurt, you are gonna piss a lot of people off.

• 23:36Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 23:37Tim Grover?

  Alright, are you gonna piss them off for the short term, are you gonna piss them off for the long term? I've had so many individuals, athletes, that I used to train back in the day, and I used to tell them, you're not good enough to go to the NBA.

• 23:49Ed Mylett?

  You would devalue them and be willing to tell them.

• 23:51Tim Grover?

  I would tell them, you're not good enough to, but you can make a ton of money overseas. I said, what do you wanna do? I said, overseas, you can make, I said, you can literally, you could have a very long career, be extremely popular over there, live a nice lifestyle, and be successful for numerous years. Rover, you don't know what you're talking about. Okay, I'm telling you. Ten years come by, they're chasing the NBA dream, they don't make it, I run into them and they come up to me and says, you're the only one that told me. You're the only one that told me.

• 24:27Ed Mylett?

  Do you think the fact that they deny, is interesting thought. Like, you are candid with me, right? Like, I actually look at, my dad was candid with me. So I, maybe it's because I played sports, I don't know, but like, I look at people who are really candid and frank with me as like, that's actually real belief and love.

• 24:44Tim Grover?

  One hundred percent.

• 24:45Ed Mylett?

  But don't you think most people that don't win, and I'm not calling myself a winner, but I think most people that don't win, don't view candor and direct feedback that way. They view it as hate, or criticism, or you're rooting against me, or, don't you agree? Like, I actually have very few people who are candid with me.

• 25:01Tim Grover?

  Yeah.

• 25:02Ed Mylett?

  And those are some of my most cherished people in my life.

• 25:04Tim Grover?

  Right. Well, here's the thing, so, when's the right, when's the, when's the best time for the truth? All the time. It's the best time for the truth, all the time. The truth should lead to more action. But what does it usually do? It leads to more emotions.

• 25:23Ed Mylett?

  Wow, that's really true.

• 25:25Tim Grover?

  So when you tell somebody the truth, so what's the first thing? Anybody in a relationship, you go in a relationship with business, personal, whatever it is, the first thing they always ask me, honesty. Honesty is the most important, until you're honest.

• 25:39Ed Mylett?

  Until you're honest, yeah.

• 25:41Tim Grover?

  Then the emotions get in and then everything goes haywire. Then your mind still, your mind has to be stronger than your feelings.

• 25:50Ed Mylett?

  That's awesome. You, you ever work with, I'm just curious, I've never asked you this even privately. So let's take Kobe and Jordan, the two physically phenomenally gifted dudes, mixed with all the things that you have in the book about winning. Like if you want to think like Kobe Bryant and what Tim Grover did, read the book.

• 26:06Tim Grover?

  Right.

• 26:07Ed Mylett?

  If you want to think like MJ and the things that you learned from MJ and then that you took to another level?

• 26:11Tim Grover?

  Sure.

• 26:11Ed Mylett?

  Read the book, right? Did you ever work with a guy, don't say who, I know you wouldn't, but did you ever work with someone as physically gifted as either one of the two of them that just lacked these things and so as a result, we don't know who they are?

• 26:20Tim Grover?

  Numerous.

• 26:21Ed Mylett?

  Really? As physically gifted?

• 26:23Tim Grover?

  Even more.

• 26:24Ed Mylett?

  Wow.

• 26:25Tim Grover?

  Even more. They were by far not my most physically gifted athletes. I worked with athletes that were, jumped higher than MJ, who ran faster, who had better footwork than Kobe, but...

• 26:40Ed Mylett?

  Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant were not the two most physically gifted athletes you've worked with?

• 26:44Tim Grover?

  No.

• 26:45Ed Mylett?

  Whoa, okay. And then, so when you would work with these guys and you'd be pushing them in training, there was a different resistance or fatigue or how was it different?

• 26:52Tim Grover?

  You know what? Ed, how many times have you had people come up to you and says, "I'll do anything to get where you're at."

• 26:58Ed Mylett?

  Right, all the time.

• 26:59Tim Grover?

  Or "I'll do anything to work for you" until you, until you tell them what your definition of anything is. Your definition of anything is different than my definition of anything. I'll have an athlete, it's very simple. When I first start with them, when I was training numerous, say what time did you first work on? I'd say 3:30. I'll be like, "Okay."

• 27:20Tim Grover?

  It's 3:30 a.m.

• 27:21Ed Mylett?

  A.m.

• 27:22Tim Grover?

  I wouldn't tell them a.m. or p.m. I'd tell them 3:30.

• 27:28Tim Grover?

  So where's... Myself, my staff, we're sitting at, waiting. Cause, you know, winning doesn't sleep and it doesn't understand why you... Why you do.

• 27:37Ed Mylett?

  That's awesome.

• 27:38Tim Grover?

  So... Then we come back at... We go that they roll in the gym about 3, 3:30, like, "What are you doing here?" They're like, "You said 3:30." "No, no."

• 27:49Tim Grover?

  I said, "You got the wrong time." And I said, "When does a new day start?"

• 27:57Tim Grover?

  And they look at me and goes, "No." I said, "No, the new day starts at 12:00 midnight."

• 28:02Ed Mylett?

  That's right.

• 28:03Tim Grover?

  "That's a new day."

• 28:05Tim Grover?

  "All right. What are you waiting for?"

• 28:09Ed Mylett?

  And even if you tell them, "Hey, MJ did this, Kobe did this," if they don't have it, they don't have it.

• 28:13Tim Grover?

  They don't have it.

• 28:13Ed Mylett?

  You think it's a lack of obsession? Like, you said, you've referenced a couple of times, like, sleep at night, your bed doesn't sleep and all that. One of the things that... I'll be honest with you, there's a lot in the book that hit me, and you guys go get the book. Winning, Tim Grover, Real Simple. Get it anywhere books are sold. But there's this part of the book, man, like, it almost made me cry audibly, reading it, but I did get water in my eyes, and I'm gonna get water even explaining it to you, where you're talking about being asleep and that you get these visitors at night. And I know those visitors very, very well. I have them too. It's attached to my obsessions. And I don't think, I don't think the average person who wants to really win understands the extent and degree of obsession required.

• 28:56Tim Grover?

  They don't.

• 28:57Ed Mylett?

  So, can you elaborate on that visitors that you get at night?

• 29:00Tim Grover?

  Everybody thinks obsession is a bad word. It's not.

• 29:07Tim Grover?

  I love to use the people I... You're a great example. Ed.

• 29:13Tim Grover?

  Why, why keep going? Look at the house.

• 29:17Tim Grover?

  Not only this house, the other house, and the other house, and the plane.

• 29:25Tim Grover?

  And if people pay very close attention to what was just said,

• 29:29Tim Grover?

  probably about 20 minutes ago, what did you say? I don't consider my, I don't know if I consider myself a winner.

• 29:37Tim Grover?

  That's obsession. That's obsession. And I love to use your plane story as an example. You went from a very nice sized plane to even a bigger plane, but it's still not your 747. That's right.

• 29:53Tim Grover?

  It's not your 747. Alright, that's an obsession. That's a healthy obsession. That's what gets you out of bed. That's what allows you to, when you get out of bed, when all the skeletons are lined up next to you and telling you, you can't do this, you're not able to do this, you're not able to do this. You get up every single morning and you shake their hands and give them a hug and say, Yep. What do you got for me tonight? Exactly. I got you. Because you're a part, you're a part of me. You're a part of me. And people put some, it's funny. Winners bring, all of them, wherever they go. And most individuals, the best part of them, the thing that allows them to win,

• 30:38Tim Grover?

  the thing that allows them to be obsessive, the thing that allows them not to care what other people think, the things that allow them to deal with hatred, the things that keep them going when nothing else will, they keep in their closets. The best part of them, they keep in there because they're worried, what are people going to think about me if I let those things out?

• 31:04Tim Grover?

  Don't, I, I always say this, alright? You know?

• 31:10Tim Grover?

  Everyone says, I'm afraid to become that person. Yeah. You should be more afraid not to become that person. Be afraid not to become that person. You, you're a big thing about, you know, meet, uh, I wanna, what, at the end of the journey, Yep. You know, I wanna meet my better half and say, hey, what did you leave behind? Or it's like, hey, this is the person. Shake hands with them. Shake hands with them.

• 31:41Tim Grover?

  If you can't become that person,

• 31:45Tim Grover?

  you're never gonna be able to shake that person's hand.

• 31:48Ed Mylett?

  I live in way more fear of not becoming that person than I am about not trying to be him. Big time. But I do have, I want to stay on this for a minute. I get these visitors at night too that you get. So,

• 32:01Ed Mylett?

  I don't want people to think that winning is all like, rosy and glory and beautiful.

• 32:06Tim Grover?

  It's nothing.

• 32:07Ed Mylett?

  It's really not, and I'd not even...

• 32:11Ed Mylett?

  You have to know this, here's the real, I've never said this on the show. You have to really know these truths so that you can actually decide you still want to win.

• 32:21Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 32:22Ed Mylett?

  Right? Because what does come with becoming this way now at 50 and you're 56?

• 32:26Tim Grover?

  56.

• 32:27Ed Mylett?

  56, you look great. I've had 50 years of having these visitors in my life at night.

• 32:32Tim Grover?

  And they're not going away, Ed. They're not, that's what everybody wants to do, the people just want to sweep them under the rug. They want to keep them in the closet, they don't want to talk about them. That's what makes you successful, that's what makes you, that's what makes you special. That's what makes you different. And what do we say? Different scares people. Winners and winning scares people. And they don't want to win because of that. They're trying to win, they're trying to balance, they're trying to fit in. What do winners do? Very few of them have balance in their life. Maybe after they become successful, they try to balance a little bit more. Alright. There is no balance early.

• 33:16Tim Grover?

  They don't care what other people thinks. They're extremely obsessive, they know it. And they don't mind telling you that they're chasing the next win. Because that's what fuels them. But when you, people come to you and say, you've had enough, you know, why? Slow down, slow down, unwind.

• 33:43Tim Grover?

  I don't know about you, I do know about you, I should say that. We are at our most uncomfortable when people tell us to unwind. We like to be wound up.

• 33:55Tim Grover?

  We like that, that's like a part of, that's, we have our, we have our unique ways of unwinding. We don't need anybody to tell us to unwind.

• 34:04Ed Mylett?

  My favorite way of unwinding is having some tequila with a buddy of mine who's another winner and talking about doing more winning.

• 34:09Tim Grover?

  Right.

• 34:09Ed Mylett?

  I was on Andy's show and I said, winning is more fun than fun is fun.

• 34:12Tim Grover?

  I remember that.

• 34:13Ed Mylett?

  And I just really believe that, like, it's actually what I like. Like, I like the pursuit of winning, I like the, I like, I like that I sincerely don't feel that way about myself. Cause I'm scared if I did. Like, I'm scared of, these visitors that I have are my fears, my worries, my hopes, my thoughts, my skeletons.

• 34:36Tim Grover?

  Yeah.

• 34:36Ed Mylett?

  You know?

• 34:37Tim Grover?

  They take all those forms. They take all those forms. And you don't know what form they're gonna take that night. And you know what? They're gonna sit at you with a table, they're all... They're not gonna, I, I put this in a book. When, when you travel, those skeletons are traveling with you on the plane.

• 34:54Ed Mylett?

  They're my constant companion.

• 34:55Tim Grover?

  All the time. And if you notice, everyone looks at you and you fly on that plane alone, I have said, Ed's never been on that plane alone.

• 35:02Ed Mylett?

  It's true. It's true.

• 35:04Tim Grover?

  He's never been on that plane alone.

• 35:06Ed Mylett?

  They're with me all the time.

• 35:07Tim Grover?

  All the time. And you know what? When they look at his tequila bottles on the thing and they're finished, that's because they're drinking the best stuff also.

• 35:16Ed Mylett?

  I wonder who's drinking all that stuff, man? Stuff gets expensive. I just love this because this is the realest conversation I've ever had about really winning, and it's the realest book about it. Like, like, it's, I don't, this isn't one of these Pollyanna things, like, it's not all rosy. No, there's a lot of it that sucks. And like, unless you wanna sign up, and by the way, I don't know if you've, I'm actually cool if you don't. Like, if you actually said, hey, I don't want all that stuff, I don't wanna, I mean, I don't relate to you, I'm not gonna hang out with you, you're not my kinda people. But I'd actually admire somebody who says, I won't do these things that are in this book, and I know I'm not gonna win. Rather than say, I wanna win and do none of the things that are in the book.

• 35:56Tim Grover?

  The people that can admit it, they've already won. The people that said, "This ain't for me. This ain't for me." They know exactly who they are. I'm good. I'm good. Most people will settle for good. Most people will settle for okay. Very few people will settle for great. Very few people will settle for unstoppable. Very few people will settle for winning. I break things down three different ways. So, look at this. And I even put this in a book, but I want to share this with you. You have individuals that compete. Everybody competes. You know, you play golf, you love golf. Sure. You know, you go out and your golfing partner, I don't know, what's his real name? His real name is Kelly Gwynn.

• 36:41Tim Grover?

  We call him Richard Cabeza. Dick Cabeza is head in Spanish. I got it. Everyone that's wondering what that's his name, because half the people don't know, that's what Richard Cabeza means. Right, everybody knows him. He's going to be signing autographs. He does. He goes out and people are like, "I love you in my Latin, man." Can I get your... He's had people take pictures with him. It's awesome. Yeah.

• 37:01Tim Grover?

  And I'll get into it a little bit later about that. But there's people that compete. Alright, everybody knows how to compete at something. And for most people, when they compete, they want to get to the... They want to just finish. That's their win. They just want to finish. Alright? Now, to me, if you're that level person,

• 37:21Tim Grover?

  is that finish going to lead to another win? It might not be, it might be in something else. If you're going to run a marathon, alright, and you're not one of these top elite marathon runners, you're not going to win the marathon. Right. You're not going to win. But you have a mindset to say, "Hey, I'm going to finish this marathon." Now, is that, when you finish that marathon, what else is it setting you up for? But there's people that go in there, they're just happy, they're just happy competing. They're just happy finishing. They're just happy to be in the race. Then you have people that win. Alright? Once.

• 37:53Tim Grover?

  They win once.

• 37:55Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 37:55Tim Grover?

  And how many individuals do you know, and you probably don't, well, I shouldn't say this. I said you know, not associate, where there's a big difference. That

• 38:05Tim Grover?

  keep telling you about that win over and over again, no matter how long it's been.

• 38:09Ed Mylett?

  Gosh. Factoid.

• 38:11Tim Grover?

  Alright.

• 38:12Ed Mylett?

  I got it, man. You were quarterback in high school.

• 38:14Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 38:14Ed Mylett?

  I got it. You got your masters. I got it.

• 38:17Tim Grover?

  I got it. Alright. Then you have individuals that win at winning.

• 38:23Ed Mylett?

  That's really good.

• 38:25Tim Grover?

  They win at winning.

• 38:28Tim Grover?

  So, they win over and over and over again.

• 38:32Ed Mylett?

  You think it's you think it's all it's cracked up to be?

• 38:37Tim Grover?

  No. But we don't know any other way.

• 38:40Ed Mylett?

  Best answer of all time.

• 38:42Tim Grover?

  Everybody, we don't know any other way.

• 38:45Ed Mylett?

  Best answer of all time.

• 38:46Tim Grover?

  We can't accept it any other way. We just can't.

• 38:53Tim Grover?

  I wrote a bestselling book.

• 38:54Ed Mylett?

  Crap.

• 38:55Tim Grover?

  I didn't have to do another book. You wrote a bestselling book.

• 38:57Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 38:59Tim Grover?

  You know?

• 39:02Tim Grover?

  You have another book coming out.

• 39:06Tim Grover?

  You don't you don't have to do any of this.

• 39:11Tim Grover?

  But if you didn't

• 39:15Tim Grover?

  that would be more detrimental to you. You don't know any other way.

• 39:21Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 39:21Tim Grover?

  You just don't.

• 39:23Ed Mylett?

  Yeah. You think that, by the way, I'm loving this, just so you know, because I know people that might be listening, say, "Hey, this is a little bit dark, like, um, welcome to winning." Like that's why you see so many people, I watched Nick Saban after he wins these national championships. He's gotten a little bit better at it the last couple of years.

• 39:41Tim Grover?

  Yes, yeah. Just a little bit though.

• 39:43Ed Mylett?

  Like 1% better.

• 39:44Tim Grover?

  You know why? Either his wife or somebody in his family told him.

• 39:48Ed Mylett?

  Hey, at least smile for the interview after, right? We can get back to work tonight. But you watch these prolific winners. So, I did love to watch MJ celebrate that win in the evening that he won, right? Or, you know The few times I saw Kobe actually celebrate the win. But I know the next day they're back to work. I watched Saban. And like for years he'd win these national championships and you could already see the grimace on his face for the next year in the post-game interview.

• 40:15Tim Grover?

  In the post-game, yes.

• 40:16Ed Mylett?

  Right? And like I think people look at it, they go, well then is he? And I think to your answer, you're right. Like people say, well, is he really enjoying this? Yes, and he knows no other way. So maybe it's not all. I wonder if you ask, is it all it's cracked up to be? I think some people might say, no, but it's all I know. And it's better than the alternative of living with losing the rest of my life or not trying.

• 40:37Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 40:37Ed Mylett?

  Right?

• 40:40Tim Grover?

  There's a reason it's lonely at the top.

• 40:44Tim Grover?

  And it's not because. You want to be surrounded with other individuals. That's not the part people, when they talk about it's lonely at the, lonely at the top.

• 40:57Tim Grover?

  It's alone because nobody understands what's going on in here. Of what just went after you've just won, what you went through and you're already thinking about the next. You're already thinking about the next and people can't comprehend that. And there's people whispering in your ear and they're saying, enjoy it, enjoy. By the time they say enjoy it. You did enjoy it. Now you're already thinking.

• 41:21Ed Mylett?

  Yeah. Do you think it's that, I'm just thinking right now, I'm asking you this. Cause you watched this and you've done it in your own life. Like. You've, you, you've had two careers. You've had a career where you helped, which you still do. Where you help other people win. And then there became this point in your life where you became, you were individually winning as a speaker. As a coach, as a writer. It's an interesting thing to watch with you. You were the behind the scenes guy, then you weren't the behind the scenes guy. Do you think that?

• 41:50Ed Mylett?

  It's like a dopamine thing, like when they win, like they're already, they have to get another one, like immediately, like it's an addiction? Do you think winning becomes an addiction?

• 41:58Tim Grover?

  It is an addiction. And the only place where you can get that high again is the black market in your mind. It's the only place. Because you only know where that entrance is. You only know where that hit is. You only know what that drug, you only know what that drug is. And here's the crazy part about it. The next win has to be bigger. It has to be bigger. It has to be bigger. It has to constantly keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

• 42:23Ed Mylett?

  So true. It sounds like a sickness when you're listening to this, but I actually think it's beautiful. I actually think you were born to win. And you learn over a lifetime how not to. As a child, "Don't do this, sit down, be a good boy, get in your place, do this." Then the world starts treating you. And I think you move further and further away from your own nature. I think we were born to win. We were born to do something great with our life. I really, I don't know, it's a saying to me. And I feel a sadness when I meet somebody who's accepted a life of not winning. By the way, I'm cool with it, it's okay, I'm not judging you. But as someone who wants to pursue that expression of myself, or that...

• 43:06Ed Mylett?

  I just wonder what I would be like, you know, if I could... What it would be like, what I would be like if I could get to the next level. I'm fascinated with... Like, I think the people that I really like, enjoy, they're curious people. Like, I want the next experience. I don't want to live in the previous experience, like that guy was like, "Hey, you know, I made a million dollars in 2009, and it was like in the mortgage boom, or the crash, or whatever." I'm not really interested in living in those, in those times.

• 43:32Tim Grover?

  You're not, because it's always about, it's always about what's next. It's always about constantly staying in the range. It's constantly about changing your mindset. The language of winning for people that win is completely different than the language of winning from other individuals. No. You sit here and you talk to people and they describe the... When I talk to all my athletes, I said, "Describe winning in one word to me." And everybody would think about, you know, they would be like, "It's happy, it's, you know, it's euphoric, it's all those things." And it is. But those constant winners, their answers were, "It's unpolished. It's uncivilized. It's nasty.

• 44:16Tim Grover?

  It's hard. It's dirty. It's unforgiving." And then Kobe comes up and says, "It's everything." It's everything. And if you think about it... And very few people are genuine about this. All right, and you know the ones that are, and you know the ones that aren't.

• 44:40Tim Grover?

  How do you feel when somebody's really close to you? And they win? It's an unbelievable feeling.

• 44:47Ed Mylett?

  Unbelievable feeling.

• 44:49Tim Grover?

  How do you feel when you win? It's an unbelievable feeling, even though it's short-lived. How do you feel when your kids win? It's unbelievable.

• 44:57Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 44:58Tim Grover?

  All right.

• 45:01Tim Grover?

  That feeling is everything.

• 45:02Ed Mylett?

  It is everything.

• 45:03Tim Grover?

  That feeling is everything.

• 45:06Ed Mylett?

  It's amazing you just said that. I'm reading the book last night and I call my wife about halfway through the book. Because when you read your work, you know, even in the first book, you talk about in this book, the most controversial part of the first book was the dark side.

• 45:19Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 45:20Ed Mylett?

  You talk about it in this book. And then when you're reading this, you're like, this winning thing's mean. This winning thing's unforgiving. This winning thing doesn't give a shit if you sleep. This winning thing doesn't care, right? Like, you go through, you're like, gee, this is almost... And if you're not careful, guys, you would think, because this is truth. It flies in the face, everything you always hear. But you would think that it's not something that you really want. And the evidence of it, I said to my wife last night, I said, the evidence that you know winning is where you belong is how happy you are when you see your children doing it, if you have children.

• 45:51Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 45:51Ed Mylett?

  When your children win a spelling bee, or get straight A's, or hit a home run, or win a golf tournament, or do anything exceptional. The amount of joy you feel and pride when they win. I have a feeling that that's how God feels when he sees one of his children win. And I think this is something we all miss, that it is a grind, it is difficult. But if you ever wonder whether you belong winning and that's the path you should pursue, just ask yourself a question about your children, if you have them, or your parents, or anybody that you love and care about. When they win, how do you feel for them? I literally said this last night.

• 46:24Tim Grover?

  So, I've heard you speak numerous times. And what people don't know about this, like, when we're on the stage together at the same event, I'll stay just to hear you speak.

• 46:33Ed Mylett?

  Vice versa, as you know.

• 46:34Tim Grover?

  You know, I will stay. The last time I heard you speak was at an event and you were talking about a golf tournament you were with, with your son.

• 46:41Ed Mylett?

  With Max, yeah.

• 46:42Tim Grover?

  With Max.

• 46:45Ed Mylett?

  It's an intense story.

• 46:46Tim Grover?

  Yeah, it was...

• 46:47Ed Mylett?

  Well, we went from playing golf to winning.

• 46:49Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 46:49Ed Mylett?

  That was the decision. Like, to your point, like, your book. And by the way, I've said this really in the interview. Little words from people, a caring statement, a little bit of access to some information. And I've said this many times, just haven't said it to you, but like I thank you because, you know, I've had people say, "Oh, your son gets all your stuff." And yeah, he also has talked to Grover. He's also talked to Grover. And just so you guys know, I really, truly believe that one of the reasons that my son is excelling is you. And your information, little whispers you give him, a little direct message, a little text message, a little access to a call like you've done for my son. And I think that's the other thing that people don't know. Winners are generous.

• 47:28Tim Grover?

  Extremely generous. Extremely. You know why? Because they're truthful. They tell you how it is. It's not, it's not rainbows. It's not unicorns. It's not sprinkles. This is what it takes. This is what it takes. And other people, they'll tell, they don't want to, we talk about the stuff nobody else wants to talk about. Does that make us bad people? In many people's eyes, it does. But it also where the few people that are going to hold your con about, we're going to tell you the truth. And where people are going to say, you know what? Everybody else, sugarcoated it. These individuals told me exactly how it is. That's what the book Winning is about. Now,

• 48:13Tim Grover?

  I don't want people to think that it's all this thing. If you read the last chapter of the book.

• 48:19Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 48:19Tim Grover?

  It kind of ties everything in and it explains

• 48:25Tim Grover?

  why winners go through this journey.

• 48:26Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 48:28Tim Grover?

  Why they go through this journey. Because I have this thing, it's like everyone talks about it's the journey. It's journey, it's not the destination. Well, to me, why the hell are you taking the journey if you don't know where the hell the destination is? What are you just amiably going to be running around? Alright, every time, when you get on your plane, or you get in your car, you know exactly, you're going from here to here. Now, you may have to take a detour to go somewhere else to do whatever you're doing. But you're like, this is where we're going. You had a post a couple of days ago. Man, it's nice to own a jet because all of a sudden I gotta go wherever, wherever your destination was.

• 49:04Ed Mylett?

  Yeah. By the way, it could be the most enjoyable flight in the world, but if I end up at the wrong place, complete waste of time and I'm pissed off.

• 49:13Tim Grover?

  Yeah.

• 49:13Ed Mylett?

  This notion that it's the journey and not destination is maybe the biggest pile of BS in the history of the world. I wanna, you know, the journey, enjoy it if you can, but the bottom line is you better get to the destination.

• 49:23Tim Grover?

  You gotta know what the, you gotta know what the, you gotta know what the destination is.

• 49:26Ed Mylett?

  I was coaching all these guys the other day on haters and, you know, we're so obsessed with this crap, right? Like, what are they thinking about me? And I'm like, let me tell you guys the truth, it was our, it was our arte group. I said, here's the deal, they are right if you lose. So you better win. So if you don't win, everything they said was true.

• 49:44Tim Grover?

  And you could have hung up the call.

• 49:45Ed Mylett?

  I mean, you have to get to the destination.

• 49:47Tim Grover?

  That's it.

• 49:48Ed Mylett?

  That's the whole point of this, right? If you don't get to the winning destination, most of what they said was true. And the reason it bothers you so much is you're afraid you might not get to the destination and they're gonna be right.

• 49:59Tim Grover?

  And right, and it's, and what we talked about, instead of the fear, you're, you're gonna have that fear, but there should be no doubt. I'm getting to that destination. I'm, it's not a straight line, I don't, it's never going to be a straight line. Listen. This thing drives me absolutely crazy. And I just like, oh. When people put this out there. Five steps to this, 10 step. How many steps have you taken in your lifetime, Ed?

• 50:26Ed Mylett?

  Unlimited amounts and the new ones are revealed all the time.

• 50:29Tim Grover?

  All the, and sometimes you can't even see they're there. Alright, and do you always get to walk up those steps? No, sometimes you gotta crawl up those steps on your hands and knees.

• 50:38Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 50:39Tim Grover?

  It, it's just, and then just when you get to the top, you get pushed right, you get pushed right back down. It's not easy. It is not easy.

• 50:48Ed Mylett?

  And sometimes, Tim, when I get to that step, like, the next ones revealed to me that I had no idea existed.

• 50:53Tim Grover?

  Exactly.

• 50:54Ed Mylett?

  It's funny, it's funny you say this because I'm writing my book right now and I'm like, I wanna put steps in like 21 of these. I actually said in the beginning of the book, I don't know that I'm gonna do it that way yet, but I literally was saying to our publisher, I'm like, as long as I'm allowed to say, these aren't in exclusivity. Here's 21 particular steps or 19 particular steps, but there's gonna be 99 million more. And a couple more things, because like, we're flying by, dude, like I... We should have done the three hour Rogan like we were talking about. But by the way, the amount of tequila that we'll consume in those three hours would make it even more interesting to listen to the two of us. But here's something, I have a good fortune and so do you. That at this stage of our lives, we're around other winners.

• 51:35Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 51:36Ed Mylett?

  So there's.

• 51:37Tim Grover?

  We choose that.

• 51:37Ed Mylett?

  What's that?

• 51:38Tim Grover?

  It's a choice we make.

• 51:39Ed Mylett?

  Right, it's a choice we make. Okay, that's interesting you say that.

• 51:41Tim Grover?

  It's a choice, it's a choice we make. We have very little tolerance for people that can't get that information. When you tell about, hey, listen, about the haters, you gotta get to the winning test, otherwise they're gonna be right. How many times you have to say that over and over and over again? You're just like.

• 51:57Ed Mylett?

  What's really good is you give me permission, because sometimes, I try to, I fancy myself a lover of humans, right? And I do, I love people. And, and it's why I do this. Yet, I sometimes find myself thinking that I'm judgmental of people when I do get uncomfortable around someone that doesn't share that proclivity to want to grow and win. You know what I'm saying? I almost feel judging my, like, man, I'm, I should just like this dude.

• 52:23Tim Grover?

  No, so you'll sit here, and I do this all the time, where people come up and say, you know, and they'll say something, and I'll just look at them, I was like, I don't understand. I just like, they have a thought process, you just sit there and you're just, it's not a winning mentality, it's just like, you'll sit there and you're so, you're so perplexed by what the, you're just like, I don't, I don't understand.

• 52:45Ed Mylett?

  That doesn't happen to me.

• 52:46Tim Grover?

  Yeah, it's just like, this is like, really?

• 52:49Ed Mylett?

  Right, yes.

• 52:50Tim Grover?

  Yeah, you're like, really? And, and those are the individuals you try to like, okay, no matter how you sum them up, how you explain to them, where they, they just can't.

• 52:59Ed Mylett?

  They're the yeah but person. Yeah, I got that but, yeah but, but you don't know my situation. But you don't know this, yeah but, yeah but, yeah but. I'm like, no, there's no but. Like, you got a big old but for a reason, you need to get rid of that big but, there's no but, this is the way it is. I don't understand what you're talking about. And I, this is a different version of me even sometimes for the audience when I'm around you, because like, I, I just feel like, the real is the real, right? But when you start, you say something so awesome in the book, amongst tons of awesome things. But I do have access to people like yourself that are friends of mine now, that make me feel normal, as you said, a lot of people responded that way to relentless, and they're gonna respond that way to winning.

• 53:37Ed Mylett?

  And just pick their brains and associate with them and then your thermostat setting goes up, all the stuff I teach. But when I started, I didn't. And you, you talk about this in here about, I felt initially, and I think a lot of people are like, you know what? I'm going to choose winning. I'm gonna read this book. I'm gonna follow my Let's Podcast religiously. And I'm gonna choose to win. When you make that decision, you have decided to leave a pack. And probably initially feel very alone.

• 54:07Tim Grover?

  Yes.

• 54:08Ed Mylett?

  Right? And this is something not talked about. And I think a lot of people, we're so used to being in packs. We're in classrooms. We're in, you know, we're on teams in life, in classrooms. We're always in groups. I'm a Democrat, I'm a Republican, I'm a this, I'm a that. It's all tribes and groups. But when you decide to win, you have separated from most groups. And you may not know yet, especially if you're new to it, other people as crazy as you, right? And this, you do this thing about reframing loneliness into mental dominance. Can you talk, like, I love that phrase, mental dominance too. So, talk about that.

• 54:46Tim Grover?

  Excellence and winning is lonely. Success is lonely. All right. Can you separate, can you separate yourself? So, you could be standing next to another individual and winning says, points at you, and doesn't point to you, you, and you. All right. Are you willing to say, hey, winning has just noticed me? And now, what did you do for winning to say, you know what? I got a little interest in you. I don't have any interest in the rest of you folks. I got a little, I got a little interest in you. Because what do we say? Winning keeps his hands in his pocket because it doesn't want to point to the wrong person. It doesn't want to acknowledge the wrong individual. All right. So, what acknowledges, says, come here.

• 55:30Tim Grover?

  Let me talk, let me talk to you. All right. No, no, no, I don't want to talk to them. I just, I need you to come alone. This is the journey. This is the path. This is what you're gonna have to do. This is who you're gonna, this is who you're gonna have to separate yourself from. All right.

• 55:47Tim Grover?

  Are you interested? And you can't think about it. Are you willing to come through this door knowing you have no idea what's on the other side of the door? You have no idea what's on the side of that door. And once that door closes, you can't go back. Most people be like, I'm not willing to, I'm not willing to do that. But the wins are so available and people,

• 56:14Tim Grover?

  I don't know when winning got such a, I don't even know the word I'm looking for. It's just like, it be, it became, like it became a bad thing where people were obsessed with.

• 56:27Tim Grover?

  And I'll go back to you on this. You play in, you play golf on a regular basis, alright? You compete in tournament things.

• 56:37Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 56:39Tim Grover?

  Are you just in them or are you there to win?

• 56:40Ed Mylett?

  I'm there to win. I'm there to win. Yep. I love watching golf interviews where the guy's like, "Yeah, you know, I'm excited I've made the top 10." I'm like, Tiger Woods would literally throw up if he ever said that audibly out loud in his life, right? Like, I'm not, I, I, I, like even for me in golf, and I know this is true for you and your fitness, you and I talk about our fitness a lot. It's like, listen, I am, I'm not Mike O'Hearn. Neither are you, right? I'm in golf, I'm not Phil Mickelson. But I'm going to, and this is no pun, I'm, I'm going to max out my opportunity at my level to compete, and then when I get to that level, I'll go to the next level. Not enough people win where they are right now.

• 57:23Ed Mylett?

  Like, if you want to be an entrepreneur and you're an employee somewhere right now, win as an employee right now. Dominate where you are. If you're a high school athlete and you're watching this, and you've got aspirations to play Major League Baseball, dominate and win where you are right now. And that builds the habit of winning, the addiction of winning, the biochemistry of winning in our lives. And this idea that you're gonna be lonely, like, accept it. Like, I, I, I have just accepted in my life that, especially when I was new, that I was gonna have to have that. And I think a lot of times people think that, they can't deal with that isolation.

• 57:59Tim Grover?

  Right, and, and I love, so-

• 58:03Tim Grover?

  When people follow you on all your social media platforms, Instagram and everything else, they see the beautiful house, they see the cars, they see everything. How big is this house?

• 58:17Ed Mylett?

  This one's 7,500.

• 58:20Tim Grover?

  7,500 square feet, alright? How many people are in this house right now?

• 58:24Ed Mylett?

  There are four of us.

• 58:28Ed Mylett?

  Which is more than usual.

• 58:30Tim Grover?

  Where's your wife?

• 58:31Ed Mylett?

  She's at the other house in the desert.

• 58:32Tim Grover?

  Where's your son?

• 58:33Ed Mylett?

  He's at that, he's playing in the golf room, but he's at that house too.

• 58:37Tim Grover?

  Where's your daughter?

• 58:38Ed Mylett?

  They're there, there's three of them there.

• 58:43Tim Grover?

  Do I need to say anything else? You're in this house chasing your next win.

• 58:49Ed Mylett?

  Yep, me and you. Yeah, and I would rather be, I can't wait to see them later tonight, but right now, I would rather be nowhere else on planet earth than talking to you about this topic right now.

• 59:00Tim Grover?

  There it is.

• 59:01Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, that's a fact. So, we're gonna run out of time, we're probably already on time, probably my editor is gonna kill me for this, but it's just, it's too good. So, I wanna talk about two more things. One is grit versus glamour. So, social media world, there's a lot of glam out there about winning, and even in the sports world now, like, a lot of these rookies get these big deals, and so, you're instantly seeing guys sign for significant cash, and I think the appearance of it is that it's glamour. It's one thing I've kind of always admired about Brady, even though I probably overly talk about Brady, is that he messages grit a lot, he shows grit a lot.

• 59:44Ed Mylett?

  It's almost counterculture now, the grit piece of it. So, talk a little bit about grit versus glamour.

• 59:52Tim Grover?

  With social media out there now, everybody can, it's easy to glamorize something you don't even have.

• 59:57Ed Mylett?

  Yep, you can fake it.

• 59:58Tim Grover?

  You fake it so much, you know, that's, social media is, listen, the fake is the new real.

• 1:00:05Ed Mylett?

  The fake is the new real.

• 1:00:06Tim Grover?

  It really is, it really is. You can't fake the grit. Everybody will know if you fake the grit. You just can't, you just can't.

• 1:00:16Ed Mylett?

  What is grit to you?

• 1:00:17Tim Grover?

  Right, grit to me is something inside of you that just allows you to push forward.

• 1:00:27Tim Grover?

  It allows you to block everything out and continue to say,

• 1:00:34Tim Grover?

  "I'm gonna do this. I'm going to, I'm going to do this."

• 1:00:40Tim Grover?

  What I like to parlay grit with is the grind. Everybody always talks about they're grinding, they're grinding, they're grinding. Well, here's the thing. If you just continue to grind, you're gonna end up with dust. What are you grinding for? What are you trying to form with that grit? What are you trying to form with that grind? You take an ice sculpture, alright, it starts, it's a square, or circle, whatever it is, and they take away the pieces to form whatever it may be. Are you grinding and gritting for that to whatever shape that's going to look to you, for you? Is that what winning looks like to you? And it's different for ev- for each individual.

• 1:01:24Tim Grover?

  Your definition of winning may be completely different than somebody else's definition of winning.

• 1:01:30Tim Grover?

  Your grit has to determine what winning means to you. And it could be completely different than anybody, than anybody else. I understand why you do the things you do. I get it. When Ed does something, I was like, "I, I get it. There's no judgment behind it. I totally, I totally under, I totally understand." That's your win.

• 1:01:53Tim Grover?

  The people that don't understand your win, don't understand your grit, don't understand your grind, are like, "You know what? Why? Why? It's not, it's not for you to know why. It's only important for you to know why. And your why is so different than everybody else. Grit is tied into all that. It's called, it's tied into your identity, and it connects with your why. Cause your grit may be completely different than somebody else's, that's somebody else's grit.

• 1:02:27Tim Grover?

  The glamour is never going to be real unless you go through the grit and the grind. It's just not. It's always going to, it's always going to be fake.

• 1:02:40Ed Mylett?

  It's really good. For me, if it's, if it's something that's measurable, winning's first.

• 1:02:44Tim Grover?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:44Ed Mylett?

  That's it. It's first. So if it can be measured, it's first. If I'm not first, I lost.

• 1:02:50Tim Grover?

  And then you look at it, you know, people, you take it personal when you put information out there.

• 1:03:01Tim Grover?

  And you don't reach the numbers.

• 1:03:04Ed Mylett?

  Of course.

• 1:03:06Tim Grover?

  You're like, and you're like, you don't blame this, that you're like, you know what, what didn't I do?

• 1:03:11Ed Mylett?

  Hundred percent me.

• 1:03:13Tim Grover?

  What, what, what didn't I, what didn't I do? What could have I done better? All right? And then there's, there's a healthy ego behind that with both of us because

• 1:03:28Tim Grover?

  that's confidence. To me, if you just, there's an unhealthy ego of the people that just talk. And there's a healthy ego that produces results. And every individual needs to have a healthy, confident ego that produces the results that show.

• 1:03:50Ed Mylett?

  A hundred percent. So when Max, Max putts, for example, I teach this with a lot of my athletes. So, you know, a guy misses a putt in golf and he's like, I suck, or I can't putt, or I missed the read. I said, Max, what you said earlier about no doubt, you should expect to win. Not the type of expectation that you believe that it's afforded to you or that it's your right, but an expectation that that's where you're going. And I taught, I teach a lot of my athletes this, but especially when it comes to golf. You miss that putt, I want you to say, that's not like me. That's not me because I make putts. Right? And so for me, I'm surprised when I, I'm not winning because I expect to win at something. So like, whoa, what happened here? Whereas most people, they're surprised when they do win.

• 1:04:35Tim Grover?

  Yep.

• 1:04:35Ed Mylett?

  I don't believe Michael Jordan was shocked ever when he won a championship. Am I right about that?

• 1:04:40Tim Grover?

  One hundred percent.

• 1:04:41Ed Mylett?

  Yeah. Wade, Kobe, there was no shock when they got there, but most people are like, I won! And they act like they've never been there before. Right? When I watched Michael win that first championship, everybody that watched was like, "He's gonna win another one." Yeah. He's gonna win another one. It didn't look like, it didn't look like that was it. I remember Brady, when he won the first, he was kinda like, "Whoa, kinda like this." And then you watched him come back the next year and you're like, "These guys are gonna win multiple championships." Yes, they are. And I'm just curious with you, brother, I'm almost done, but I'm watching you and I'm just, I'm proud of you. Thank you. What an interesting life. Like, I know the story. If you guys saw my first show with Tim, that, where you couldn't get through it, that story of the cab ride with your dad. Just to think of this little boy who's dad's like, "Well, we're gonna walk to where we're going."

• 1:05:27Ed Mylett?

  But his dad didn't have the money to pay the cab fare to get them to where they were going. And you carrying your little bags down the street as a little boy, right?

• 1:05:37Ed Mylett?

  And just to think that that little guy ends up... I mean, The Last Dance was about Michael Jordan, but if it was about anybody else, to me, when I'm watching, maybe it's because you're my friend, it's like, a lot to do with Grover too, man. Like, like, you've become this icon in that space. You've, you've literally arguably worked with the best of all time at something, and you came here carrying your bags down the street. Then you go, let me give you more. Then you go from doing that, Tim, to, you're like, "All right, I'll write a book." All right, you can't spell. You sell a million copies. I know you very well. You're extremely introverted, private man. You're like, "Now I'm gonna speak."

• 1:06:22Ed Mylett?

  On stages, in front of large peo-, large groups. And then afterwards, "I'm gonna meet a bunch of people one-on-one and interact with them socially." I know you, brother. Then you dominate at that, right? And then you've become friends with people like myself, who we cherish the friendship with you, even when it's from a distance. Now you got this book out, this one's gonna sell 3 million copies, or whatever the heck it's gonna do. Are you proud of you?

• 1:06:51Tim Grover?

  I'm more proud that you're proud of me.

• 1:07:02Tim Grover?

  I surround myself with the best.

• 1:07:07Tim Grover?

  And I'm sitting here with the best.

• 1:07:10Ed Mylett?

  Cheers. Well,

• 1:07:15Ed Mylett?

  I've now got Grover to cry three times. So that's gotta be a Guinness World Record. I am proud of you. And...

• 1:07:23Tim Grover?

  And so am I of you. Every time I see, because I know,

• 1:07:28Tim Grover?

  for, people look at you and they see, he's got everything. And I look at you and see what's next.

• 1:07:35Ed Mylett?

  I know you do. And I feel that from you and I also,

• 1:07:40Ed Mylett?

  from having worked with who you've worked with and who you are, you're under no illusion that like, I'm like, super at peace all the time. You know? In fact, most of the time, you're like, you okay? What's going on? What's wrong? I saw something there. You feeling alright? What's going on? You get it. And you need to have people in your life like this, guys, who will tell you the truth, but also don't buy into any of your BS about everything being rosy all the time. And you've been a really important person to me. My only regret, like, seeing you today. It's like, and Sheri, who's off camera. It's like, I just wish I saw them more often. You know? And Sheri, obviously, is credited with helping write this book. It says right in there, Sheri too. So, I just, first off, everybody needs to get this book.

• 1:08:26Ed Mylett?

  And it's, this is very simple. Okay? This is a topic very rarely discussed, truthfully. Very simple. So, there's topics out there where people discuss, you know, neuroscience in your brain, or, you know, how to grow your self-confidence. These are things, and there's some good books on it. The topic of winning...

• 1:08:44Tim Grover?

  Started reading the book, just listened to some of his podcast episodes. He has all those guests on there.

• 1:08:49Ed Mylett?

  Thank you, but this is distilled down into something you can carry with you as a companion, with truths in it. And people that you and I both know, I just want to say this, that have started reading it, that I'm texting, it's just like, that's true, that's true, that's true, that's true, that's true. And it's things that, you know, it's taken you 56 years to acquire and accumulate. It's taken me 50 years of my life to acquire and accumulate some of these things. And the fact that you are imparting new things on to me means anybody in their journey to wanting to win, that's not quite as far down that road, needs to have this, because it's going to help you. And hopefully today's interview did as well. So cheers, brother. Thank you for today. I knew we would do Magic again. I knew we would. And to all of you guys out there, listen to me. Go get this book, and please share this conversation.

• 1:09:32Ed Mylett?

  If you have anyone in your life, anybody, who's interested in winning, this is the show you need to be sharing with them right now. This episode of this show can absolutely make an impact in their life. And he jokes in the book about every show's life-changing, every show's epic. And it's not. I believe in every show that I put out, and that's why I always tell you guys that I believe it can make an impact in your life. But some of them are right to the heart of what I know you truly want, and I know you truly want to win, and I know today can help you do that. So I just want to say to everybody, share the show, God bless you, and max out.