Pod Insights Scamfluencers The Wildenstein Family Part 2: The Art of the Steal | 223 About this episode In our last episode, we followed the Wildenstein family over the span of four generations as they came to dominate the art world. The family prized success – and secrecy – above all else. But when the Wildenstein men attempt to cast aside the women they brought into their fold, leaving them with nothing, these women are going to fight back using the one thing the family fears most: publicity. As the Wildensteins make headlines, they’ll face court case after court case – and be forced to reckon with some brutal buried history.
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0:00 Sarah Hagi? Audible subscribers can listen to all our episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.
0:14 Scaachi Koul? Sarah, what is your stance on alimony? Like, do you think women should get all that they can get in a high-profile divorce?
0:21 Sarah Hagi? Sure, why not? You know, I feel like, yes. I mean, especially if they have children. Like, chances are the woman's doing everything, or at least most of it, foregoing her own hopes and dreams for a man. So I'd say in most cases, I am extremely pro-alimony.
0:38 Scaachi Koul? Yeah. I mean, I just feel like if you have to be married to, like, some rich dud, and he dies, or worse, he leaves you for someone significantly younger, you should at least be able to cry on your very own boat.
0:50 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, absolutely. That's the whole point. At least I get to cry on a boat if everything goes south.
0:55 Scaachi Koul? Precisely. Well, today, in the second part of our journey through the legacy of the Wildenstein's, we find out about even more women who married into this wretched family and were promised the world, only to have what was rightfully theirs taken away in their darkest moments.
1:16 Scaachi Koul? It's December 1997 at the Four Seasons Hotel in Manhattan. Alec Wildenstein sits at a conference table flanked by a team of attorneys. Across from them is Susanna Andrews, a reporter from Vanity Fair. In the past, the Wildenstein family has been famously secretive, avoiding the press and declining interviews. But right now, their situation is dire. So today, Alec has decided to tell his side of the story. Alec is short, with a receding hairline and piercing hazel eyes. And while he's in his late 50s, he's still very much a daddy's boy. Earlier today, he called his father, Daniel, to prepare for this interview. And now, he nervously thumbs through a stack of notes from their conversation.
2:01 Scaachi Koul? He clears his throat and says it's time to put the truth in order. It's been four months since Alec made headlines by pulling a gun on his wife, Jocelyn, after she walked in on him with another woman. After Alec spent the night in prison, the New York media picked up the story and quickly became obsessed once they got a look at Jocelyn's extensive plastic surgery. Since then, tabloids have covered every single step of their divorce proceedings. Alec tells Susanna that the last few months have been difficult for his family, but not because he violently threatened his estranged wife. He's worried that all of the press has made the Wildensteins vulnerable to kidnappers. He's so worried, he's hired security guards for all of his children, and he says that
2:45 Scaachi Koul? it's all Jocelyn's fault.
2:47 Sarah Hagi? I mean, it's not Jocelyn's fault at all. Jocelyn innocent, even if she is guilty, I still consider her innocent because this is a long time coming. This family has been doing crazy shit for a while. It was, it was only a matter of time before everything was exposed.
3:03 Scaachi Koul? Yes, and his divorce isn't actually the only public disaster Alec is here to address. A Jewish family recently came forward with strong evidence that art stolen from them by the Nazis is now in the Wildensteins' possession. The family wants it back, claiming it's rightfully theirs. But a New York Times article quoted Daniel as saying, quote, "I can't understand the claim. They had no claim for 50 years? I tell you something, if tomorrow someone steals a picture for me, I make a declaration to the police that it's stolen. After 30 years, the man who stole it owns it."
3:37 Sarah Hagi? I mean, that's just not how it works. It simply doesn't work that way. And also, these people were experiencing a Holocaust. It takes a bit of time to get your ducks in a row after, you know, Holocaust.
3:51 Scaachi Koul? Yes, very good point. Oh, and also, that article, it came out the very same morning that Alec got out of prison. The Wildensteins are having a media moment, and not in a good way. Now, it's Alec's job to clean up after his dad's mess as well, but he doesn't exactly approach the subject with grace. Alec dismisses these claims outright. He says the only reason anyone cares about the stolen art now is because of his divorce drama. He insists that technically, the Wildensteins are the rightful owners and the other family's descendant is just money hungry. Sarah, can you read some of what he said?
4:28 Sarah Hagi? Yes, it says, "The person who is claiming something now is a nephew who has no idea of what he is doing. He's trying to be a nuisance factor. He's doing what my wife is doing. He's thinking that by embarrassing us, we will give him something." I mean, this just isn't a way to garner sympathy when the accusations are so outsized, you know? Like, you can't just be like, "Everyone's out to get us," and opportunistic. Give us some evidence.
4:54 Scaachi Koul? Evidence would be nice, I think. Well, unsurprisingly, Alec doesn't come off great in this interview. The Wildenstein's have an unfathomably large art collection and could easily return the allegedly looted works. But they're doubling down, insisting they bought the art legitimately. Alec and his family see these descendants, Anne Jocelyn, as annoying opportunists who are after their fortune. But Alec and Daniel's flippant attitudes are sullying the impeccable reputation that the Wildenstein's built over generations. And as their cruelty and greed continue to make headlines, the families they wronged and the women they screwed over are going to demand justice. And petty tabloid drama is about to turn into legal battles with real consequences.
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6:43 Speaker 04 I'm Gemma Whelan, and in the new season of The Spy Who, we tell the story of the original femme fatale, the spy who was Mata Hari. A famous dancer turned World War I secret agent, accused of seducing Allied officers to uncover their plans. But was she a temptress or a scapegoat for French failures? Follow The Spy Who now, wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen to the full season of The Spy Who Was Mata Hari, early and ad-free on Audible.
7:15 Scaachi Koul? From Audible Originals, I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagee. And this is Scamfluencers.
7:30 Scaachi Koul? In our last episode, we followed the Wildenstein men over the span of 100 years and four generations as they came to dominate the art world. The family patriarchs prized success and secrecy above all else, which led to some ruthless and questionable decision-making. But the women they brought into the fold, their wives and girlfriends, are powerful in their own right. And when the Wildenstein's try to discard them and leave them with nothing, these women are going to fight back using the one thing the family fears most: publicity. Now, as the Wildenstein's make headlines, they're going to face court case after court case and reckon with some brutal, buried history. This is The Wildenstein's Part Two: The Art of the Steal.
8:19 Scaachi Koul? It's April 1999 in a New York City courtroom. Jocelyn leans forward and holds her breath, hanging on to the judge's every word. Because today, after an almost two-year-long battle, her divorce proceedings are finally drawing to a close. Jocelyn dressed up for the occasion in a fabulous Chanel suit. We actually have a picture of her from this day. Sarah, could you describe it?
8:43 Sarah Hagi? It's like one of those typical photos you see that is in a newspaper of people outside of court, but I just want to focus on Jocelyn herself because she has started her transformation into quote unquote "the catwoman," but this is like when you're really like, oh, there's no going back. Her face is only going to get more feline.
9:04 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, this is a beautiful cat in an amazing suit.
9:07 Sarah Hagi? She looks amazing.
9:08 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
9:09 Sarah Hagi? But she looks like a cat.
9:10 Scaachi Koul? Yeah. Well, Jocelyn has been fighting to get what she thinks she deserves, but Alex's lawyers have been claiming he's basically destitute. He says he only makes $100,000 a year and that his entire net worth consists of that salary plus an apartment that he co-owns. Jocelyn thinks that's bullshit, and she wants everyone to know it. She's been making her case in the media, telling journalists the truth, that her husband's family owns a sprawling estate in Kenya, more than 150 thoroughbred racehorses, a fleet of fancy cars, and a private airplane, not to mention their vast art collection. It's an almost cartoonish level of wealth. At the family's Manhattan townhouse, a pet
9:51 Scaachi Koul? leopard and a lynx roam the halls, objects owned by Marie Antoinette are on display, and a staff of butlers wait on the family hand and foot. Jocelyn estimates that when she and Alec were together, they spent around $1 million per month. Obviously, it's hard to prove exactly how much a family is worth when they're actively hiding their assets. But to Jocelyn, it certainly doesn't seem like Alec is struggling financially, and the court seems to agree. Can you read what the judge said about Alex's income statement earlier in the proceedings?
10:22 Sarah Hagi? Yes, the judge says, "It is undisputed that they enjoyed a lifestyle of unparalleled luxury and unfettered extravagance." The judge also says Alex's claim, quote, "insults the intelligence of the court and is an affront to common sense." Thank you so much, Judge, because I feel like rich people are always doing this, where they're pretending to be poor or poorer than they are when they have wealth that we don't even understand could exist hiding somewhere. Be it legally or illegally, and assets and companies, whatever the hell it is. It's like, if you are that rich, you're not ever going to be actually poor, poor, you know?
11:02 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, it's good that the judge is bringing us back into reality, isn't it?
11:05 Sarah Hagi? Mm-hmm.
11:06 Scaachi Koul? Well, after some digging, the court estimates that the Wildenstein's art collection, which has largely been kept a secret, is worth $10 billion. To be clear, this is the estimated worth of their art collection alone. It doesn't include their other assets, like their properties all over the world. The judge grants an uncontested divorce, and while we don't know exactly how much Jocelyn got from the settlement, we know that she left the courtroom smiling. Some say she was granted $3.8 billion. Other estimates are more conservative, saying she got $2.5 billion, plus an extra $100 million annually for the next 13 years. Either way, this is widely considered the biggest divorce settlement in New York
11:49 Scaachi Koul? history, and Jocelyn is beyond satisfied. But, of course, the press coverage about the trial still leans on cat puns and jokes about her appearance, like this clipping from the New York Daily News.
12:01 Sarah Hagi? Yes, the headline says, "War of Wildenstein Ends: Jocelyn Exits Purring." And there's a huge photo of her where, again, she's looking kind of feline, but also, she looks great and she got what she wanted, so I'd be like, "Suck it, I'm a billionaire now, bitch."
12:18 Scaachi Koul? Yes, exactly. Well, Jocelyn doesn't care about the cat puns or the jokes at her expense. She's just happy that she got what she deserved: a sizable settlement and endless public scrutiny of her now ex-husband and his family. After all, she knows that's her father-in-law's worst nightmare. For Jocelyn, this is a huge win, proof that even a family this rich and influential can be brought to justice. And for the Wildenstein's, it's going to be the first of many public losses.
12:52 Scaachi Koul? It's May 1999, just one month after Jocelyn and Alex's divorce settlement. Alex's father, 81-year-old Daniel Wildenstein, sits stiffly in his seat in a courtroom in Paris. He's here for a completely different kind of trial, a libel case against an author. Daniel has spent his entire life trying to keep his family out of the press. And now, their reputation is being threatened by Puerto Rican journalist and author Hector Feliciano. Sarah, do you remember Hector from episode one?
13:23 Sarah Hagi? Yes, he's the one who wrote a book about the family's alleged Nazi art theft and collusion. And at the time of him writing it, like, it never made it big in the US because it just wasn't translated then.
13:37 Scaachi Koul? That's right. In his book, Hector described how Daniel's father, George, cut a deal with Hitler's personal art dealer during World War II. Daniel has spent years trying to cover up the family's cooperation with the Nazis. But in 1997, Hector's book was finally published in the US. And because the timing coincided with the media frenzy surrounding Jocelyn, it got a lot of attention. So, the Wildenstein's are seeking a million dollars in damages from Hector. It's worth noting that they seem to be suing him in France rather than the United States, because it's easier to win a libel case there and because freedom of speech is less protected.
14:16 Sarah Hagi? I mean, I understand they have to double down for appearances and to, quote, "clear their name" or whatever. But it's just, to me, such unneeded press in their direction. This is also pre-internet in the way we know it now. Stuff will just die.
14:33 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, they are Streisand affecting themselves. While Daniel's confidence wears thin as the evidence is presented to the jury, he feels a pit in his stomach. This is not going how he hoped. Because Hector found documents during his research that had never previously been made public, including letters exchanged between the late George Wildenstein and Hitler's art dealer.
14:57 Scaachi Koul? As hard as Daniel tries to defend his dad, the evidence is pretty indisputable. The following month, the French court dismisses the libel case. For Hector, the Wildensteins' loss is a win for press freedom. Sarah, can you read what he tells reporters at the time?
15:13 Sarah Hagi? Yes, he says, "They lost. With this decision, many researchers and journalists will also be able to publish a lot of fresh information about the Wildensteins." Good for you, Hector. And also, it's crazy Daniel never thought that he could lose. Like, bringing this up for basically no reason, thinking it'd be a slam dunk when he knows what the truth is? It's crazy to me.
15:39 Scaachi Koul? Yeah. Well, for Daniel, this is the scariest outcome imaginable. More public scrutiny is the last thing he wants. After a long life enjoying his wealth out of the public eye, the octogenarian is now living his worst nightmare. And he'll go on to spend the rest of his life defending his family. By the end of 1999, he even publishes a memoir to try to rewrite the Wildenstein legacy. He fondly shares stories about their long history in the art world, their dealings with artists like Picasso, and fond memories of time spent together as a family. But it's too little, too late. And just two years later, with their reputation still in tatters, Daniel dies from cancer.
16:21 Scaachi Koul? In a matter of a few years, the Wildensteins have gone from relative obscurity to being internationally known for all the wrong reasons. Now, with Daniel gone, it'll be up to his sons to steer the ship back in the right direction. It's November 2001 at the Wildenstein Institute in Paris, an imposing building that's belonged to the family for nearly a century. Sylvia Roth's heels click against the sidewalk as she walks up to the entrance. She's a former model, who's now in her late 60s, with a signature platinum blonde bob. She sighs heavily as she opens the front door, dreading whatever the day has in store. Sylvia is in mourning.
17:05 Scaachi Koul? She's the second wife of Daniel Wildenstein, who she just lost to cancer. The two were together for 40 years, and they were happy. Daniel took care of the family business, while Sylvia took care of him and their home. And they both loved spending time at the racetrack, fawning over their beloved horses. We have a picture of her with one of her horses in the late 90s. Sarah, could you describe her?
17:28 Sarah Hagi? You know, this is really housewives-esque when there's a super rich housewife that enters the cast. This is like the most moneyed photo imaginable. You know, it's like a beautiful, middle-aged woman, smiling very gracefully in a fur coat, perfect hair, leaning against a horse that she has nothing to do with outside of owning it and making money off it, probably. And it's just one of those images that exudes wealth.
17:55 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I love her instinctively. Well, Sylvia has barely had time to grieve. She's exhausted, overwhelmed, and anxious because her stepsons, Guy and Alec, told her that they needed to meet urgently. The two men are already waiting inside when Sylvia walks into the institute. Alec and Guy are just a few years younger than her. Alec is 61, and Guy is 55. But after four decades with their father, Sylvia feels a strong maternal bond to them and their families. They ask her to sit down and break the bad news as gently as possible. They say they've been going over their father's financial records and bank statements, and it turns out he died in financial ruin.
18:39 Scaachi Koul? He was up to his ears in debt. They tell Sylvia that to save herself, she'll have to renounce her inheritance. Otherwise, she stands to take on all of her late husband's debt. Sylvia is shocked. She's never heard a word of money troubles, not from her husband or anyone in the family. But she doesn't question Alec or Guy. Why would she? Even though she's not related to them by blood, she trusts them implicitly. They're her family. She shakes her head in disbelief. How could Daniel have kept this from her? Sylvia is scared. After 40 years of living the high life with her husband, she's suddenly faced with the possibility of spending the rest of her life in debt. She doesn't really understand
19:24 Scaachi Koul? how all of this financial stuff works, and she feels grateful when Alec and Guy offer to take care of it. They assure her that by renouncing her inheritance, she'll avoid taking on any of Daniel's crushing financial problems. And they'll give her 30,000 euros monthly for the rest of her life to make sure she's taken care of financially.
19:45 Sarah Hagi? Sylvia, Sylvia, Sylvia. Has being married into this family taught you nothing? These are liars. That never happens. So they have no money. These greedy boys have no money. And they're gonna be like, you know what? But we'll give you 30,000 euro. It doesn't work that way. Regular families fall apart when it comes to inheritance, you know?
20:06 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, for far less.
20:08 Sarah Hagi? Yes.
20:10 Scaachi Koul? Well, Sylvia signs the documents right there and then. She doesn't understand all of them, and some are even in Japanese, but still, she signs. Sylvia believes her stepsons are looking after her the way their father would have wanted. But what she doesn't realize is what Daniel actually passed on to his sons. A pathological need to hoard the family's power and wealth, even if it means lying and stealing from the women who love them. But soon, she'll realize that things aren't adding up, and she'll stop at nothing to get what she's owed and finish with jostling started.
20:48 Scaachi Koul? It's 2003 in Paris, over a year since Daniel's death. Sylvia is at home, enjoying a quiet morning, when her phone rings. On the other end is a trainer who tends to her beloved racehorses. Sylvia and Daniel always kept a stable of thoroughbreds, and for 40 years, Sylvia has loved them like family. She calls them her babies. So she wasn't surprised when Daniel left the stable to her in his will. After all, who else would inherit them? But the trainer says he's noticed that the horses are no longer listed under Sylvia's name. She hangs up the phone to double-check, and sure enough, her beloved horses are technically no longer hers. They now belong to Alec and Guy.
21:34 Sarah Hagi? You know, a rich woman like her, whose life is probably defined by hobbies and, you know, being on dinners and lunches, like, this is a radicalizing moment. Realizing your horses are no longer yours. They take the horses and then what's next, you know?
21:50 Scaachi Koul? First, they came for the horses and I said nothing. Well, ever since she signed those documents after Daniel's death, Sylvia's life has been falling apart. Shortly after their meeting, movers showed up at her apartment. They took a beloved painting off the wall, loaded up the furniture, and explained that it now belonged to Alec and Guy. And she was told that she had to leave because the apartment itself was no longer hers either. Soon after, she stopped being invited to family gatherings. And now, with the horses gone, it truly feels like she's lost everything. Sylvia is realizing she misplaced her trust because while she thought her stepsons were taking care of her, they were actually conning a grieving widow.
22:35 Sarah Hagi? I feel like this is the moment for a lot of women who are super wealthy and get divorced where they realize how little control they have over their lives and that they kind of just assume things are going great because they are rich, not knowing that there was so much more happening behind the scenes and that she ultimately probably had like no power over the outcome.
22:57 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, Sylvia is learning a lot now at 70 that she has nothing: no assets, no family, and no power. At first, the reality of what happened is crushing. She's been cast aside and tricked out of the inheritance that she was owed. But soon, her sadness turns to anger. She's not going to take this betrayal lying down. So Sylvia calls a lawyer named Claude Dumont Begie. When Claude answers, Sylvia is surprised by the voice on the other end. Instead of the male voice she was expecting, she's speaking to a woman. And as they talk, Sylvia realizes that Claude is perfect for the job. She's no-nonsense and passionate, and she's delighted to discover that they're both Scorpios.
23:41 Scaachi Koul? As Sylvia explains her situation, Claude becomes enraged. Sylvia is relieved when Claude says that she's in to help Sylvia go up against this uber-wealthy, greedy-ass family.
23:53 Scaachi Koul? Just like Jocelyn, Sylvia has been hung out to dry by the men she considered family for decades. But she and her lawyer are about to uncover more hidden assets than they could have ever imagined. This inheritance case is about to become a criminal investigation, and soon, the IRS will come knocking.
24:16 Speaker 05 Ghosts aren't real. At least, that's what journalist Tristan Redmond always believed. Sure, odd things happen in his childhood bedroom, but ultimately, he shrugged them off. Until he discovered that he wasn't alone, that everyone who lived thereafter him also had bizarre experiences they couldn't explain. And it gets even weirder. It just so happens that his wife's great-grandmother was murdered in the house next door. Is this ghost somehow connected to her murder? He decides to go where no son-in-law should, digging up a cold case and asking questions that nobody wants answered. Like, could his wife's great-grandfather have gotten away with the perfect crime? This is a podcast about family secrets, overwhelming coincidence, and the things
25:00 Speaker 05 that come back to haunt us. For the best bingeable series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can get all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. Journalist Tristan Redmond goes where no son-in-law should ever go: deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the beloved family patriarch. For the best bingeable series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
25:46 Scaachi Koul? It's the mid 2000s and Claude's plane is touching down in the Bahamas. Since Sylvia hired her about two years ago, Claude has been hard at work building a case to get Sylvia's inheritance back. The two women have developed a real bond. Claude genuinely cares about Sylvia, and she's heartbroken to see how the Wildenstein's have tried to screw her over. Plus, Claude feels especially passionate about cases like this. She sees it as a classic example of patriarchal power. Men convince they can trick a woman without facing any consequences.
26:18 Sarah Hagi? I mean, yeah, that's exactly it. And I love when there is a lawyer who has like an even stronger sense of justice than just taking on a regular old case.
26:29 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, man, Erin Brockovich.
26:31 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, yeah, this is exactly like Erin Brockovich.
26:33 Scaachi Koul? This is French Erin Brockovich, obviously. While Claude has vowed to hold the family accountable, and she's made some headway. Earlier this year, French courts approved Sylvia's request to nullify the renunciation of her inheritance, which means Sylvia is finally going to get her hands on some of her late husband's fortune. There's just one problem. The family still seems to be lying about how much they're worth and about the size of their art collection. Guy and Alex swear their father was only worth 42 million euros when he died, which seems really low. And it's particularly audacious for them to make that claim, considering how that argument went over at Alex's divorce trial. Either way, Claude is doing everything she can
27:17 Scaachi Koul? to uncover the true value of Daniel's assets, which means traveling the globe and investigating in person.
27:25 Sarah Hagi? Okay, so not only is she like a cool lawyer who is getting justice for this incredibly rich woman, she's kind of like a Carmen Sandiego-type investigator.
27:35 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, Erin Brockovich in a big hat.
27:37 Sarah Hagi? Yeah.
27:38 Scaachi Koul? Well, it turns out Daniel left a trust behind for his widow here in the Bahamas, and Claude got a court order to access it. She finds out that Daniel left Sylvia at least 19 paintings by the French master Pierre Bonnard, each valued at upwards of $5 million. Next, Claude goes to Geneva, Switzerland, to visit their free port. Free ports are zones with virtually no taxation or customs duties, where dealers are known to store and trade artwork. The Geneva Free Port allegedly contains more art than the entire Louvre. The scale of it is hard to fathom, especially for someone like Claude, who's learning about the art world in real time.
28:19 Scaachi Koul? Her mouth falls open as she enters a bunker brimming with valuable works. Around this time, Claude also gets a tip from someone in the art world. She learns that wealthy collectors often hide or disperse their holdings by loaning pieces to museums, where the labels just say they're part of a private collection. And this informant suspects that thousands of Wildenstein paintings might be hidden in plain sight, on the walls of galleries like the Louvre or the Met. So, like a dog with a bone, Claude starts contacting museums. She learns that in New York, the Museum of Modern Art has a Wildenstein painting valued at over $100 million. And that's just one painting. As a reminder, Guy and Alec claimed that their dad's entire estate was worth less than half
29:04 Scaachi Koul? of that.
29:07 Sarah Hagi? See, that's what is so crazy to me. It's like, you guys are known for setting the rules of the art world, and you're claiming that you just don't have that much valuable art. It just doesn't make any remote sense.
29:19 Scaachi Koul? It does if you're the fourth generation of narcissists who have lost all sense of shared reality with the rest of us. While Claude spends years hunting down the true value of the Wildenstein fortune, and while Sylvia is heartbroken to learn how brazenly Alec and Guy have been lying, she's grateful to finally have someone genuine on her side. Soon, Claude will discover a breakthrough that will change everything. Because yet another ex-wife has been scorned by this family, and she's finally ready to come forward.
29:52 Scaachi Koul? It's early 2008 in Paris, France, and 35-year-old Lyuba Wildenstein just found out that she's in deep financial trouble. Lyuba is an actress and former model from Russia. She met Alek Wildenstein a decade ago when she was 25. Alek was 58 and in the middle of his very public divorce from Jocelyn. But despite all the bad press, Lyuba fell for him. And when his divorce was finalized in 2000, the two got married. We have a picture of them together in their castle in France. Sarah, can you describe it?
30:26 Sarah Hagi? There's a lot happening in this photo. The interiors are crazy. It's like the most wealthy-looking a space could look. A lot of beautiful, dark wood furniture that looks ancient, a gorgeous statue. But most alarmingly, we see Alek sitting at the table, and he's wearing a Gomez Adams-style pinstripe suit, hair dyed ink black. And behind him, not that close to him, is his wife, who looks like a child. Like, she looks so young. And she's in, like, her wedding attire. It looks more like a very distant father-daughter photo than it does, like, a wedding photo, you know?
31:11 Scaachi Koul? I think it just looks like an uncle and just some random woman.
31:14 Sarah Hagi? Yes. It's like, these two people don't know each other, but they have to have a photo for some reason, and that's just the way it looks. But she's smiling.
31:21 Scaachi Koul? Yup.
31:23 Sarah Hagi? She's smiling, so she must be happy, right?
31:25 Scaachi Koul? She is smiling. And when a woman smiles, we all know that she means it. Well, the couple was happily married for eight years, but their time together has just been cut short. At the age of 67, Alek dies of prostate cancer. And Lyuba barely has a moment to grieve before she gets harrowing news. Turns out, Alek owed 12 million euros in back taxes. And, as his wife, that debt is now hers. But Lyuba doesn't have that kind of money. The family estate is locked up in litigation with Sylvia, so she can't access her inheritance. So now, after years of being financially comfortable alongside her husband, Lyuba is stuck. She's on the hook for 12 million euros with no way to pay.
32:09 Scaachi Koul? And from there, things quickly spiral. Bailiffs cut off her electricity and phone line until she's able to pay. She's overwhelmed and floundering.
32:19 Scaachi Koul? But then, suddenly, she gets an offer from Alec's brother, Guy. Guy says he'll happily pay what his brother owed in taxes, so she doesn't have to deal with the headache. All she has to do in return is give him access to a trust that Alec left for her. It's an enticing offer. Lyuba is relieved that someone wants to help her, so she says yes and signs the paperwork.
32:43 Scaachi Koul? Does this sound a little familiar to you, Sarah?
32:46 Sarah Hagi? Yes, it's the exact same tactic they did to Sylvia. And this one kind of shows just how manipulative it is, because this is someone at their lowest, who's really freaking out, and sees a lifeline, and obviously doesn't have the bandwidth to question how valid this is.
33:04 Scaachi Koul? Yes, exactly. While Lyuba does give Guy access to her trust, and then she's cut off from the Wildenstein family entirely. Guy does send her some money, but it's allegedly not enough to pay the tax bill or her living expenses. Without her husband around, she's left with nothing. Lyuba is scared, and a full year goes by after Alec's death before the reality finally sinks in. The help she was promised isn't coming. As she continues to struggle financially, she realizes she's been conned, and her fear hardens to anger and frustration.
33:41 Scaachi Koul? Just like Jocelyn and Sylvia, she wants one thing above all else: justice. So she picks up the phone and calls a lawyer, and one name comes to mind: Claude Dumont Begy. For the last few years, even before Alec died, Lyuba has been receiving summonses from Claude, who is seeking any information that could help Sylvia's inheritance case. For whatever reason, probably out of loyalty to her husband, Lyuba ignored them, refusing to provide testimony that could help. Until now. Lyuba realizes that she's part of a pattern: the Wildenstein's collect wives and girlfriends, then discard them without inheritance or alimony when they're gone. And she's had enough.
34:25 Scaachi Koul? She tells Claude everything she knows, and agrees to send over financial documents that she found on her late husband's computer. Lyuba just handed Claude everything she needs to get Sylvia what she deserves. But Claude has to act fast, because after years on this case, time is running out.
34:44 Scaachi Koul? It's 2009 and Claude is looking through a treasure trove. Dozens of documents from Alec Wildenstein's widow, Leuba. After six years of searching, she finally has definitive proof of what she's known all along. The Wildensteins are lying about their wealth. The documents include letters and contracts, many involving offshore trusts, and they are damning. It's a map of exactly how the family has hidden its wealth for generations, revealing countless assets that they'd kept secret. There are several hundred classic paintings by French masters, real estate holdings scattered across the globe, a jet, a yacht. A lot of the art is being held in shell companies and offshore trusts.
35:27 Scaachi Koul? And Claude's eyes widen when she uncovers something shocking. Daniel actually left behind two trusts for Sylvia. And Guy and Alec's lawyer actively worked to have her removed as the beneficiary of both. It's the most incriminating evidence she's found so far.
35:45 Sarah Hagi? That is so insane, like, thinking it was just one trust, not knowing about a total other one. And also, again, I'm just floored at this idea that they'd never get figured out for this, you know?
35:58 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I mean, they seem to have inherited Daniel's delusional idea that they can just bend reality to suit their preferences. Claude is thrilled by all of this evidence, but she's worried it's too little, too late. Sylvia has been battling ovarian cancer and might not live to see justice. She's also running out of money. Over the years, Sylvia has spent more than 10 million euros in legal fees fighting the Wildensteins. Can you read what Sylvia said about Alec and Guy in an interview from around this time?
36:27 Sarah Hagi? Yes, she says, "They robbed me and now they are waiting for me to die." That is really sad, you know? I know she enjoyed a very luxurious life while married, but I feel like being as old as she is and facing that injustice, it really must be sending her spinning, you know?
36:46 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I think it would do that for anybody. Well, Claude acts quickly. She believes Sylvia is entitled to a settlement of nearly 400 million euros. So she files a criminal complaint. And in it, she names Guy, his business associates, and all of Alec's heirs. His two children, plus his wife, Leuba. And now that Alec is gone, they're responsible for the contested estate. And while Leuba may not have known about her husband's offshore trust before, she and Alec's kids are now potentially complicit in a serious money laundering scheme. Unfortunately, Sylvia passes away before she's able to see the results of this criminal complaint. She dies in 2010, a few days after her 77th birthday.
37:31 Scaachi Koul? She's buried next to her husband, Daniel. With her friends and longtime client gone, Claude no longer has a case. She'll have to abandon her dogged search for justice, but luckily, the authorities will pick up where she left off. It's January 2011, at the Wildenstein Institute in Paris, the sprawling compound where the family keeps much of their art. Guy Wildenstein stands off to the side, his heart sinking as he watches police officers march into the building. Guy is in his late 60s now, with gray hair and wire-rimmed glasses. For decades, while Alec handled Wildenstein and Company's sales, Guy worked more quietly on the administrative side.
38:15 Scaachi Koul? He's not quite as flashy or tabloid-worthy as his brother was, but he's devoted his life to the family legacy all the same. And now, his and Alec's attempt to swindle Sylvia out of her inheritance is coming back to bite him. Sylvia died last year, but the French government took Claude's investigation seriously, along with the criminal complaint that she filed. And for the state, this is more than a simple inheritance problem. It's a tax issue. By hiding assets, the Wildenstein's may have avoided paying hundreds of millions of euros in taxes.
38:50 Sarah Hagi? You know, say what you want about Europe. They often do not play about taxes. It's a pretty big deal if you're not contributing to society. You gotta pay your taxes.
39:01 Scaachi Koul? That's what this show has taught us. While Guy holds his breath as the investigators head into the storerooms in the basement, which are practically overflowing with art, and what they find is damning. Among the treasures are roughly 30 paintings that had previously been reported as missing or stolen, classic works of art that had just vanished. Some of it is art the Nazis stole from Jewish families during World War II. A few of the frames are even inscribed with swastikas.
39:31 Sarah Hagi? Oh.
39:33 Sarah Hagi? Obviously, the Nazi aspect of this all has been looming over the story, knowing that it's evil. But hearing that there were frames with swastikas and that this guy was saying that, yes, he needed more security is just so insane to me. It's so mind blowing.
39:51 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, pretty hard to parse. And it is hard to know the full truth, but when questioned, Guy swears up and down that he had no idea his family even had all that stuff. Their collection is just so massive, he wasn't aware that they owned any lost or stolen artwork. For more than a decade, Guy Wildenstein and his family have been lying to steal from grieving women. And for more than 50 years, they've been hoarding historic artwork the world has been searching for. And now, there's nowhere left to hide, and Guy will finally have his own day in court.
40:33 Speaker 06 You stepped out for your morning jog, except it's not your usual morning jog. You started listening to an epic sci-fi book on Audible. 30 chapters later, you've accidentally run a half marathon. You've lost track of how far you've run, somewhere just past the city limits. You can't stop. You have to find out what happens next.
40:52 Speaker 06 Then it's over. The universe seems bigger. You feel different. You feel...
40:58 Speaker 05 Like you have no idea where you are. Audible. Stories that speak to you. Hi, I'm Kenya Barris. And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects. We'll sit down with extraordinary guests from the worlds of art, film, literature, comedy, and wellness to hear from their unexpected stories of success. And who do we have this season? Well, we'll talk with Grammy winning artist Anderson Paak, athlete Rich Roll, portrait artist Amy Sherald, Oscar winning director Ron Howard, legendary writer David Sedaris, and many more. These conversations are more intimate than last season, wouldn't you say? I would. Listen to season one of The Unusual Suspects wherever you get your podcasts and sign up for a free trial audible to listen to season two in the Audible app
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41:59 Scaachi Koul? It's January 2017 in a courtroom in Paris, France. Six years have passed since the raid on the Wildenstein Institute. As we know from other Scamfluencers episodes, the French justice system is notoriously slow. But today, at long last, a verdict will be delivered in the Wildenstein tax fraud case. Seventy-one-year-old Guy Wildenstein pushes his glasses up to the bridge of his nose as he listens to the judge. He's on trial alongside seven other defendants for hiding assets worth hundreds of millions of euros from the French authorities. The other defendants include his nephew Alec Jr. and a few lawyers and notaries, and even Leuba, Alec's widow. Guy swallows as the judge reiterates the severity of the case.
42:44 Scaachi Koul? Prosecutors have been calling it "the longest and most sophisticated tax fraud case in French history." They say Guy should get two years in prison and be slapped with a 250 million euro fine. But instead, he gets... Nothing. The judge acknowledges there has been a clear attempt to hide wealth, but French tax evasion laws were undefined back then. France didn't have any solid laws around declaring foreign accounts until 2011, which is after most of the Wildensteins' alleged criminal activity took place. So that's it. Guy and the other defendants are off the hook.
43:23 Sarah Hagi? Wow. And here I was thinking, maybe because this is Europe, they'll be stricter, anything, but that is absolutely batshit.
43:32 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, it's pretty depressing. But the following year, in 2018, the decision is challenged and the case goes back to court. But the same conclusion is reached and the Wildensteins walk free. It's a huge win for the Wildensteins and an incredibly frustrating loss for everyone else. This is all taking place at a time when the French public is increasingly turning against the uber wealthy, and they're outraged at what seems like yet another failure to hold the rich accountable. But soon, the case will find its way back into French courts for a third time, and the Wildensteins' luck might finally run out.
44:13 Scaachi Koul? It's March 2024, and the Wildensteins are back in court again. Their case has been retried a third time, now in France's highest criminal and civil court. After reviewing the evidence, the court believes earlier trials fell short. Despite mountains of evidence, they failed to convict the Wildensteins due to a slew of legal technicalities. But the French people are up in arms over the injustice, and the French government stands to recoup a fortune in back taxes. So today, Guy has to listen to a judge deliver a verdict for a third time. And this time, the result is actually different. All eight defendants are found guilty. This includes Leuba, even though she ultimately helped bring the Wildensteins to justice.
44:59 Scaachi Koul? The court believes she was complicit in hiding assets based on her proximity to the family. In other words, she's being punished for her husband's crimes.
45:08 Sarah Hagi? Oh, that really sucks. I mean, I guess because she was married to him at the time when this was happening, like, I can technically see the logic, but it was so clear she didn't know anything. She got screwed over, too.
45:21 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I mean, it is almost enough to make you rethink marrying for money. Well, Guy's stomach sinks as a judge looks out at the courtroom and sums up the matter in a single sentence. Guy Wildenstein never stopped lying.
45:36 Scaachi Koul? After years of helping his family evade prosecution, he's sentenced to two years of house arrest. He also gets a two-year suspended prison sentence, meaning if he ever reoffends, he will head straight to prison. Finally, he has to pay a 1 million euro fine, and some of his assets will be seized. Guy's defense was that he had little knowledge of his family's complicated finances, but the evidence shows that he deliberately helped hide assets and downplay the family's wealth. Lyuba is found guilty of being complicit in money laundering and gets a three-month suspended sentence. The other defendants get fines ranging from 5,000 euros to nearly 200,000 euros.
46:17 Sarah Hagi? Well, I'm glad Lyuba wasn't severely punished, I will say. But it's crazy how many people end up getting involved with what is effectively a family dispute in many ways, like that there are so many defendants that there's such a range of fines.
46:33 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I mean, a lot of people lying in one family. But the biggest consequence for the Wildenstein family isn't the guilty verdict. It's the fact that these drawn-out trials have made a very public spectacle of a dynasty that thrived on a century of secrecy. Now, the family has to contend with the fact that the rules do apply to them and the reality that all of this happened because they refused to give a fraction of their fortune to their ex-wives and widows. As Guy leaves the courtroom, he's probably feeling defeated. The financial penalty is just a drop in the bucket for a family like the Wildensteins. But he's failed to carry on his family legacy the way that they want it. He knows George, Daniel, and Alec would all be disappointed in him.
47:18 Scaachi Koul? And that is something he'll never be able to recover from. From the moment Jocelyn Wildenstein's cat-like face appeared in the tabloids 25 years ago, the secrecy the Wildensteins enjoyed started to vanish. And now, thanks to the efforts of the other women the family cast aside, the surviving members have finally been brought to justice.
47:42 Scaachi Koul? There aren't many winners at the end of this story. Sylvia passed away before she could see her stepsons pay for their betrayal. In 2019, Claude, the lawyer who devoted years to uncovering the Wildensteins' secret stash, was found guilty of aggravated tax fraud and money laundering. Turns out she'd been hiding 4.5 million euros that she received from Sylvia in her own undeclared bank account. She fought the decision, but it was upheld in late 2024. Maybe she got the idea from seeing how the Wildensteins did it.
48:15 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, and you know what? It is what it is, you know what I mean?
48:19 Scaachi Koul? That's a lot of gradations of failure here.
48:22 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, it's like...
48:23 Scaachi Koul? Overton windows move.
48:24 Sarah Hagi? She's done more good. You know, if we're thinking in terms of the story, I'm like, mm, big whoop.
48:30 Scaachi Koul? What's 4.5 million? It's nothing. Well, after all her divorce drama, Jocelyn seemed to spend the rest of her life genuinely happy. Before her divorce was even final, she found a new partner, a fashion designer. They were together for more than 20 years. We have a picture of them. Sarah, can you describe it?
48:49 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, so...
48:51 Scaachi Koul? They look exactly right together.
48:54 Sarah Hagi? They do, yes.
48:55 Scaachi Koul? They do. To me, they look like they were made for each other. I want to be clear.
49:01 Sarah Hagi? Yes, as husband and wife?
49:02 Scaachi Koul? Yes, yes, as husband and wife.
49:05 Sarah Hagi? Not too sure. It looks, looks more...
49:08 Scaachi Koul? No, this is exactly right, Sarah, for everybody. This is the kind of husband a woman like this should have, which is a well-coiffed buddy who's gonna want to do whatever she wants to do, which is shopping and then thinking about shopping.
49:22 Sarah Hagi? Okay, yes, to that extent, I agree, because they are seemingly in a store at some type of event.
49:28 Scaachi Koul? They're at a crystal store.
49:29 Sarah Hagi? Head to toe, wearing black, tight leather. Her hair looks great, I will say. The cat-like surgery morphed into something else.
49:40 Scaachi Koul? But don't you think he kind of looks like a cat, too?
49:42 Sarah Hagi? Yes, but, you know, it's giving more lavender marriage than regular marriage.
49:47 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
49:47 Sarah Hagi? But 20 years, that means something was working, you know?
49:51 Scaachi Koul? I think it's beautiful.
49:52 Sarah Hagi? It's beautiful, and you know what? I'm happy for her.
49:54 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, me too.
49:57 Scaachi Koul? Well, on the whole, Jocelyn seemed to revel in the Catwoman title and the media attention that followed her throughout her life. She became a fixture of New York City nightlife and continued to dawn cat print outfits all over the world. She had a reputation for being fabulous, with one New Yorker saying, "Anyone who didn't understand her appeal probably shopped at The Gap." In an interview in her final years, she said the following to a reporter. Can you read it?
50:22 Sarah Hagi? She says, "I think I had a lot of fun. I found freedom. And instead of having to behave according to a program, I could suddenly have the freedom to appreciate it."
50:32 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, she's been through a lot. Listen, not many people live the life she lived. She had a totally unique experience on Earth.
50:43 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, she did. That is true.
50:45 Scaachi Koul? Well, on New Year's Eve 2024, Jocelyn Wildenstein passed away at the age of 79. Almost every headline about her death focused on her plastic surgery. But we will remember her as the woman who stuck it to the Wildenstein's. In 2025, Guy Wildenstein stepped down as the head of the Wildenstein Company after 35 years at the helm, probably due to the fact that he's now serving his sentence. The family business is now run by his son, securing the next generation of Wildenstein patriarchs, and maybe even a future matriarch. One of Guy's daughters, Vanessa, has been the company's vice president since late 2025. Only time will tell if this legendary family has finally learned their lesson.
51:32 Scaachi Koul? I think what I love about this episode and what I love about this story is that it's taken this cultural oddity from our childhood, which is Jocelyn Wildenstein, who we used to see all the time on tabloids and non-VH1.
51:43 Sarah Hagi? Yeah.
51:44 Scaachi Koul? And has reshaped her as a folk hero, which is, I do think, what most women deserve at the end of the day.
51:52 Sarah Hagi? Fully agree because I truly didn't know anything about her despite her having been a presence, as you said, our entire lives. So it is really cool to know that she's kind of impressive.
52:05 Scaachi Koul? There is also something delightful to think about, that her plastic surgery was kind of an obvious show of where she was burning their money.
52:13 Sarah Hagi? Yeah.
52:14 Scaachi Koul? Like, she was getting work done at a time when a lot of people weren't doing that. It was extremely expensive to do it, and it was also kind of the point to get surgery that didn't look like surgery. And she was doing the opposite. I kind of love that. It's almost better than buying stuff. It's like you get to walk around New York and be like, "Look at me. This is where your money went that you tried to hide from me."
52:35 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, and if you think about it, that's kind of what the purpose plastic surgery serves now. You see people, kind of freaky-looking faces, who keep getting work done and are pretty famous, and it's like, obviously, no one thinks you're young. What are we playing at here? And it is just like a wealth signifier. I feel like there's so many of these scam stories that we hear about. The wives are not really at the forefront of whatever justice there is, or they're not a huge part of the story because oftentimes they know what's going on, or how they're affected isn't huge. But it is kind of interesting that, like, the partners of these men were the ones who really made everything unfurl.
53:15 Scaachi Koul? So this is a family that was only in it for profit. I mean, down to the sons trying to disenfranchise their stepmom. That's someone who, like, in part raised them, right? Like, that's at least someone they kind of grew up with. Like, you have to be so greedy and so cruel to be like, "This person, who is not necessarily my mother, but is maybe a mother figure, and is someone who my dad loved and left a little bit of money to, not the whole thing, right? Just enough to take care of her. And I'm going to take it from her by lying and giving her Japanese paperwork to sign."
53:53 Sarah Hagi? Yes.
53:54 Scaachi Koul? Like, as if she's not going to be in your lives forever, as if she's so foolish she'd never figure it out. Of course she would. This is a family of men who thought women were stupid.
54:02 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, and also, it's like, families oftentimes, when there's, you know, inheritance disputes, screw people over in a very obvious way. It's like a legal battle.
54:12 Sarah Hagi? But they undercut everything and we're just like, oh yeah, yeah, totally sign this. We're gonna help you and we love you. Like, it seems like these weren't people that she had already had disagreements with. Like, these were people she considered family. She felt motherly towards them. It wasn't this contentious relationship and they just flipped so easily. It just doesn't make any sense because it's like, they were still rich. They could have remained rich and they were all so old.
54:38 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I mean, when you think about it, it's like they lied to have 150 million more dollars. But they already had, they already had billions. Like, who cares?
54:49 Sarah Hagi? Towards the end of your life, while you're sundowning, you're gonna do that?
54:53 Scaachi Koul? Do you feel like you learned any lessons today?
54:55 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, you know, I think in my mind, marrying rich always seemed like a nice kind of thing to do, perhaps. And now I'm second guessing all these rich suitors I have, you know?
55:07 Scaachi Koul? Right.
55:09 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I guess the lesson is like, pick your husband carefully. Pick your husband based off of who you want to divorce, which I really think is good advice, generally speaking.
55:18 Sarah Hagi? I 1,000% believe that.
55:20 Scaachi Koul? And then also get a prenup. If you're gonna get married, get an amazing prenup. It is the least he owes you. And you know what? There's a lot of men who are gonna be like, why would I need to do that? We're gonna be married forever. Okay, bet. If we're gonna be married forever, then you would have no problem signing this piece of paper that says that I get everything.
55:39 Sarah Hagi? Yes, exactly. Or, you know, as you always like to say, just don't get married at all.
55:46 Scaachi Koul? I mean, I think people should get married so they can get divorced, to be clear.
55:49 Sarah Hagi? Oh, right, right, right. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
55:51 Scaachi Koul? I think it's a good rite of passage.
55:52 Sarah Hagi? Get married, knowing you're gonna get divorced. Prep for your divorce before it happens. I agree. I mean, like, listen, so much stuff in life is set up for the failure, right? Like, why shouldn't divorce be one of those things?
56:04 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, yeah. What's also so interesting about this case is it's like, this is the family, and this is the family, and there are crimes that put Nazi looted art on the map. Like, I don't think people really understood that that was a part of what the Nazis did. Obviously, they stole wealth from Jewish families, we knew that. But the idea that they were stealing wealth through art, which is such a specific way of doing it, such a specific way of taking money, hoarding money, knowing that art will accrue in value, right? Like Hector's research and his journalism is the reason we know about it with the Wildensteins, but it also broke open the idea of Nazi-illuded art kind of broadly through Europe.
56:45 Sarah Hagi? I know people obviously have always sold art and there's always been like value in it as an asset, but like this is something that's exploded in such a crazy way over the last century. It is really insane that this family was making the rules in many ways and still decided to deal with Nazi art. The entire way they made their fortune could have been made without dealing with Nazis.
57:12 Scaachi Koul? You know, maybe that's the lesson. Working with Nazis always optional.
57:15 Sarah Hagi? Yes.
57:16 Scaachi Koul? You actually don't have to do it.
57:18 Sarah Hagi? Today, still optional, was always optional, has been optional.
57:22 Scaachi Koul? Not mandatory.
57:23 Sarah Hagi? Yeah.
57:23 Scaachi Koul? Remember that in your life and in the future. Don't hang out with the Nazis. It's actually pretty simple, pretty simple stuff.
57:34 Scaachi Koul? Follow Scamfluencers on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free by joining Audible.
57:44 Scaachi Koul? From Audible Originals, this is The Wildensteins, Part Two, The Art of the Steel. For Scamfluencers, I'm Sachi Cole.
57:52 Sarah Hagi? And I'm Sarah Haggie. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at [email protected] . We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were The Inheritance Case That Could Unravel an Art Dynasty by Rachel Corbett, Jocelyn's Revenge by George Rush, and Le Wildenstein by Magali Sair.
58:13 Scaachi Koul? Gabrielle Jrolay wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Haggy. Olivia Braley is our story editor. Our senior producers are Sarah Annie and Ginny Bloom. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Fact checking by Kalina Newman. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velazquez for Frieze on Sync. The executive producer for Audible is Jenny Lauer Beckman. The head of creative development at Audible is Kate Navin. The head of Audible Originals North America is Marshall Louis. The chief content officer is Rachel Giatza. Copyright 2026 by Audible Originals LLC. Sound recording copyright 2026 by Audible Originals LLC.
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