MFM Presents…The Knife

My Favorite Murder presents the premiere of our newest true crime podcast, The Knife: A True Crime Podcast, on the Exactly Right network. The Knife is a storytelling show that cuts deep into the most fascinating, chilling and complex cases, bringing you the sharpest true crime analysis with a cinematic edge. In the first episode of The Knife, hosts Hannah and Patia speak with Darun Henry. While on a morning run through her neighborhood park, Darun is attacked by a stranger and makes a split-second decision that will lead to her assailant’s capture. Listen on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for updates, behind-the-scenes content and more, follow @theknifepod on Instagram and Bluesky. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Georgia Hardstark?

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• 1:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye. Hello. Big news, everybody. The premiere episode of our new show, The Knife, a true crime podcast, is out now.

• 1:12Karen Kilgariff?

  If you love deep dives, empathetic storytelling, and the cases that stay with you long after the episode ends, this will be the true crime podcast for you.

• 1:21Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. And now you're about to get an exclusive listen to their premiere episode.

• 1:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Hosts Hannah Smith and Pasha Eaton take you inside the gripping story of Darun Henry, whose routine morning run took a sudden and terrifying turn, altering the course of her life.

• 1:34Georgia Hardstark?

  So, sit back and enjoy the first episode of The Knife, the newest member of our Exactly Right family.

• 1:40Karen Kilgariff?

  And don't forget, once you listen to this episode and you love it, head over to The Knife's feed in your podcast app to check out the next episode. Trust us, you won't want to stop at just one.

• 1:51Georgia Hardstark?

  And while you're there, don't forget to follow, rate, and review. It really helps. Goodbye.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

• 2:04Speaker 03

  So, there was a silent moment between us where we were both trying to process what just happened. After you punched him? Yeah, like just a still moment where I was like, oh my god, I just punched a human in the face.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  Welcome to The Knife. I'm Peisha Eaton.

• 2:38Speaker 04

  I'm Hannah Smith.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  And this week, we speak with a woman named Darun Henry. She is a personal trainer, influencer, and mother of two who lives in Toronto, Canada.

• 2:47Speaker 04

  In September of 2021, Darun had just moved into a new home with her kids and then husband. It was a nice, safe, family-friendly area of Toronto. And then on September 15th, she went for a jog at 11:00 a.m. in a park near her home and experienced something terrifying. We speak with Darun about her experience and the lasting impact of what happened to her, including a video of the incident that went viral. We will be back with you after the interview to give you some updates on Darun's story, which is still ongoing today. As a note, this conversation with Darun happened on October 14th, 2024.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Let's get into the interview.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Let's start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and your background.

• 3:38Speaker 03

  I'm Darun Henry. I am an online fitness coach. I'm a mother of two beautiful girls who are 13 and 7. And I'm just a very passionate entrepreneur. I had a very hard upbringing. I was born in Iraq. I'm Kurdish, so I, not to like go too deep, but I lost my brother. My brother was killed by a landmine when I was five. So, and then I was like a refugee until we came to Canada at the age of seven or eight. So in 96. And so a lot of my conditioning was limiting beliefs.

• 4:21Speaker 03

  I was very insecure because I didn't do too well in school. I never got like my university degree. I got pregnant at a young age. And so when I had my spiritual awakening and I was on my own personal development journey and I discovered who I am and how powerful I am and how limitless I am, I wanted to help women like discover that part of themselves. Regardless of what you've been through, that you can become the best version of yourself. And so like, that's where my passion lies right now. Right before the attack, I would say I was at the peak of my career.

• 5:04Speaker 03

  I was just the happiest version of myself.

• 5:09Speaker 04

  In September of 2021, Darun and her family had just moved into a new home in Brampton, a city in the Greater Toronto Area. Darun was delighted to find out that she was in walking distance to Massey Park, which is a small park that sits in the middle of a heavily trafficked area, but still feels remote due to the density of the trees. So she started to do her daily workouts at Massey Park.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  So it's September 15th, 2021. So school had just started. Yeah, like I had taken the kids to school that day and I went for my jog around like 9:30. Being in the forest, I would often like do walking meditations. I'd connect with God. So on that day, it was different because I needed more content. So that was the only day I had taken my tripod because I do believe that having my tripod kind of saves me in a way that day. I believe I got there around 9:50 ish. I shot content. I took pictures for about 20, 30 minutes. I was getting the right shots.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  I had my jump rope with me that day, so I was jump roping.

• 6:23Speaker 04

  So, you know, when is the first moment that you thought like something is wrong?

• 6:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, so this was towards the end of my workout. So it was around 11 a.m. when I saw an elderly man who was maybe like 80 years old with a walker. And I saw him walking very slowly. And I actually noticed a random person. I noticed he was walking very slowly behind the elderly man, like almost as if he was just like.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  With him, but you can tell they weren't together. I I found him a little suspicious because he was dressed in all black, like black sweatpants, black sweater, a fitted hat, and he was wearing a mask. It was pretty warm day. It was it was September fifteenth. I was wearing shorts, so it was kind of like unusual to see somebody dressed like in a hoodie and like sweatpants and just fully covered and also like wearing a COVID mask. Not a lot of people wore the masks outside in the parks. So I I did, I noticed him immediately as he was walking.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Um, I had his bike, but he wasn't on his bike, like he wasn't riding his bike. He was walking. They passed by, right? Like they left. And I just continued doing what I was doing. And then at this point I was stretching. And um, looking at the sunshine, you know, shining through the leaves and just breathing and just. Yeah, I was stretching and I felt this like immense pain in my hamstrings. Um, and like something told me to bend over, like to stretch my hamstrings. And when I bent over, I literally saw him through my legs.

• 8:21Speaker 03

  So I jumped and um, I was off to the side of the walking path so that people can pass by me. And when I bent over, I saw him like through my legs, literally. He was like right behind me, maybe eight feet away. And I jumped, I turned around. I wasn't scared though. I just thought he was on a walk.

• 8:45Speaker 04

  It was just like, oh, I didn't know there was someone there.

• 8:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I I I had no idea. I was wearing these headphones, so I I couldn't hear anything. And um, when I turned around and he was right, directly right behind me, my tripod was on, like it was on the ground. And I think that I I I don't think he was sure that like if it was recording or not. It wasn't recording, but um he did notice my tripod. And then when I turned around, I said, oh, I'm so sorry. Like I I was just like, so sorry, I'm in your way, right? Even though there's a huge walking pathway, like you could go around me, like you should. There's no reason you should be directly behind me.

• 9:29Speaker 03

  And so like, that's when I realized, oh, like, he really was trying to get really close to me. But I like caught him before he got too close and. As soon as I said sorry to him, he was very strange. He was just like, didn't say anything and then looks at my tripod and was like. Asking me if I did YouTube. He's like, oh, do you do YouTube? And I was like, uh, no, I was I I couldn't really hear him because he had his mask on. So then I I was like, what, what are you saying? And then he was like, do you do YouTube? And then he took his mask off, so he put it down to below his his chin. And he kept asking me if if I did YouTube.

• 10:14Speaker 03

  And I said, no, I don't do YouTube. He's like, um, are you, are you a fitness instructor? I was like, yes, I I'm a personal trainer. And he's like, well, can I get your information? Like my Facebook or like my socials? And I was like, uh, no, like I I only work with women. And then I just kind of like looked at him like, walk away, like, go now. And so like, I I was just getting annoyed of him, like it was. The conversation probably took like thirty seconds. And so I was waiting for him to walk off and I was like, no, like I only work with women. You can't have my information.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  And so he got the point and it was in that moment, like he didn't say anything more. He just put his mask back on and um in this moment, I realized.

• 11:07Speaker 03

  Oh my god, he is going to try and rape me because he looks around. He looked in my eyes and in that moment, I felt that realization, like that moment where you're like, I'm in danger, like I'm something bad is gonna happen to me right now and like, I have to like fight. So I went into fight mode immediately because he looked around, he put his mask back on and then he came to strangle me. So he came at me with his hands to strangle me, but before he could get to me, I crossed him. So I punched him with my right arm,

• 11:51Speaker 03

  my right fist. I punched him in his jaw, like I just, I don't know, I don't remember how hard it was. I mean, in that moment, I'm sure I punched him really, really hard. Not enough to knock him out, but he was shocked. So there was a silent moment between us where we were both trying to process what just happened.

• 12:15Speaker 04

  After you punched him?

• 12:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, like just a still moment where I was like, oh my god, I just punched a human like in the face. Like I, I was taking boxing lessons, but I always had gloves on. I never punched a human before, like flesh and bone. So like there were so many thoughts running through my head, like, oh my god, he's gonna kill me. I just punched a man in the face and he's gonna kill me.

• 12:47Speaker 04

  So because you say like, and you did this motion, which people can't see on the podcast, but you're saying that he was coming at you with his hands out in a clear way that like he was going for your throat.

• 12:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was coming for my throat. Yeah, like that was hands down the scariest moment of my life. Just, I didn't even react, like I didn't even think, I just reacted and I punched him. And um, I honestly believe that like punching him in the face was the best thing I could have ever done because it completely threw him off. And, and after I punched him, I did freeze because I was like, At the end of the day, I'm five one and he's really tall. He's in, I don't know who he is, what he's capable of. I don't know if he has a weapon on him. But then, right after I punched him and we had that silent moment for maybe five seconds,

• 13:42Speaker 03

  you know, it aggravated him. So he tried to take me down. And so I always mentioned that, like, my boxing lessons saved my life. I was able to fight him. So I literally heard my coach, um, his name is Jerry, and I, I literally heard Jerry in my head. I, I heard him say, put power behind it, like, as I was punching, because that was something he'd often say to me, put power behind it. And it's that repetition of punching over and over and over. And even, I don't know how it happened, but he was on the ground at one point. I kicked him really hard

• 14:25Speaker 03

  in his ribs. I wish I had kicked him in his balls, but I kicked him in his ribs. There was a point where he was looking for something on the ground. So he was searching for something on the ground. And in that moment, I thought, oh, my God, he's looking for a rock, like, to knock me out, right? Like, that was my thought. It was like, he's looking for something to, like, knock me out. And like, that was the moment I remembered I had a voice. Because, you know, when you're fighting for your life and that, you, you don't remember that, like, I didn't remember I was in a public park.

• 15:08Speaker 03

  In that moment, I remembered, like, you're in a public park. There's people, somebody's gonna hear you. And so I literally started screaming bloody murder. Um, I started screaming for help, like, as loud as I could and yeah, like, that was something, it's hard to relive, but.

• 15:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, like I I thought like if like that was my last resort was just screaming for my life. Um, it was really, really scary. So, yeah, and then as soon as um, I started screaming for help, like his eyes bulged out and yeah, and then he ran away. Um, but when he ran away, he ran towards the right side of the forest. And then I think he got maybe ten, twenty steps in. And he stopped and he ran the opposite direction.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  And that's when I pulled out my phone and I started recording him because I needed evidence of him running away. I needed evidence of like what he looked like, what he was wearing, like I just needed something to show the police. I had no idea why he stopped and ran the opposite direction. But then I realized when he picked up his bike that it was the same person who had walked by me ten minutes prior to. And I realized that he had hid his bike and was watching me for about ten minutes.

• 16:56Georgia Hardstark?

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• 19:23Speaker 04

  After Darun was able to fight off this attacker, she somehow had the presence of mind to take out her phone and hit record, capturing him running into the woods. Then a man in the park who had heard her scream showed up and called the police. The following moments were a blur for Darun as multiple police officers and her husband arrived at the park.

• 19:47Speaker 03

  When I had somebody there, like I was able to just kind of like break out of that shell and I went into shock immediately. I just started wailing, like I couldn't help it. Like I just started screaming. There was a lot of police around and that police officer showed up within two minutes. He was there. The search started immediately. They were looking for him because we gave a description. But um, yeah, he got away with it. Yeah, and then I I somehow walked back home. My my street was filled with police cars and my neighbors had no idea what

• 20:31Speaker 03

  what happened. There was just a lot of police in the area and they kind of gave me a minute. And when I got home, that's when like the shock just kept getting worse. Um, when I was like realized, like realized what what just happened. Um, the first thing I did was like go to the bathroom and puke. I don't know how to describe it, but it felt like I puked like this evil, like it just came out of me and like it just I puked and I was I was messed up. I was really messed up because I kept thinking like, oh, my God, what if I didn't turn around? Like, what if

• 21:13Speaker 03

  he had just knocked me out before I had turned around?

• 21:17Speaker 02

  There's obviously this range of emotions that you're then experiencing directly following the attack. What do logistically the hours and the days following the attack look like?

• 21:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was a huge ordeal. When we get into the police, there's a lot to say because um, you know, I essentially risked my life capturing that video because I should have been running to safety, but I

• 21:44Speaker 03

  Took an extra ten fifteen seconds just to get him on camera. Yeah, when I I was very disappointed when they told me that they couldn't do anything with that evidence. Um, like I had this fantasy that like they were gonna put it on the news that night and show the clip of him running through the woods. And my neighborhood's gonna be safer place. Maybe like somebody can recognize him. And like, I was so disappointed and so shocked when the police were like, no, like, we can't do anything with that evidence.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  What was their reason when they said, we can't do anything? Why?

• 22:26Speaker 03

  Well, because it's alleged. They can't prove what he did. They just have a video of a guy running through the woods. And it's an alleged attack. And um, yeah, like, they just don't do that. So I I was like, okay, well, what what are you gonna do? Like, there was a guy out there attacking women at eleven AM. He is one million percent gonna do it again. And they're like, yeah, we we're gonna put it up on our website. And then I was angry. I was like, what fucking website are you talking about? Like, I live in this neighborhood. I don't know about your website.

• 23:05Speaker 03

  I doubt anyone here knows that you have a website or that anyone goes on there daily to check. They questioned me for about half an hour. And I was like, yeah, I was just messed up, right? Like, they gave me maybe ten minutes to myself. And like during that ten minutes, I was puking. Then we were talking and I was angry. I was so angry. I was like, what do you mean you're not gonna do anything? What do you mean you're you're just gonna put it on a website? Like, what good is that? And they literally told me like, like, the best thing you could do is just not go back in to the woods. And I was like, are you, I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, what am I, a caged up animal? I can't even go for a walk in my neighborhood

• 23:50Speaker 03

  in the park where I take my kids every day? Like, I walk my kids to the park.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Well, also, this is our advice to women on how to stay safe. Don't leave your house.

• 23:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 24:03Speaker 04

  According to Darun, the police said they would post the report on their website to alert the neighborhood. But she didn't feel that this was good enough. After all, she lived in the neighborhood and she'd never heard of the website. Darun has a significant following on social media. And so the next day, when the police report still wasn't up online, Darun decided to post the video that she recorded in the park of her attacker. This is the first part of that video. Darun screams as a blurry figure darts through the woods.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Help me! Help me! This guy tries to attack me! I have you on video, you piece of [BLEEP]. I just punched him in the [BLEEP] face! Yeah, you piece of [BLEEP].

• 24:47Speaker 04

  The video then cuts from the park to Darun sitting on her front porch the following day, speaking directly to her followers.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  I want to make this video for my predator.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  I want him to know that when I punched him in the face,

• 25:07Speaker 03

  I wasn't scared at all. I wasn't scared. I'm crying because [BLEEP] fucking took my sanctuary from me. It went viral within hours. And at one point, it was at 30,000 views. And it was at 300,000 views. And it was at 500,000 views. And it was just like a snowball effect. And it just kept getting bigger and bigger. And that was extremely hard to navigate through as I'm trying to like, collect myself. I was getting messages from all over the world. Like, it went viral in India. It went viral in Europe. It went viral in South America.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  For some people, it was like entertainment. I experienced a lot of victim blaming. But I have to say, I did also feel like the support of the world's behind me. And they ended up posting the police report after it went viral. But I also felt like the system really failed me because if they had just taken me seriously, if they had publicized my report... Then the second attack wouldn't have happened, which was just six days after mine.

• 26:26Speaker 04

  Do you know what happened with that attack and how did you learn about that attack?

• 26:29Speaker 03

  I found out about the second attack through a follower. Somebody sent me the report. What happened was literally the same exact scenario. He attacked her on a Tuesday, was around the same exact time, like eleven AM. Um, it was in another nearby park. He was on a bike, same thing. He was dressed in sweats, but he had escalated it to, um, he had taken a knife, so a box cutter to this next attack.

• 27:07Speaker 04

  After the second attack, Darun was asked to come into the police station and look through a series of photographs to identify the attacker.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  He was like the second last picture, so I had to like go through all those pictures. But as soon as his picture came up and I looked at his eyes, this energy rushed over me and like every cell in my body screamed and was like, that's him, like I knew it was him because of his eyes, because I can never forget that look he gave me right before he came to strangle me. And, you know, even though it was a picture, I felt those emotions. And then after they made me go through that, they were like, well, we have a disturbing question to ask you. I was like, what? And they were like, did he steal anything from you? Like, does he, are you missing anything?

• 28:00Speaker 03

  And I was like, no, no, I'm not missing anything. But, uh, when they told me, like, they found him. He had a backpack on him and he had a bunch of women's items in there. And they told me that he goes out there looking for the opportunity to attack. And then that he is also a trophy keeper. So then he keeps something from his victims. And when they said that to me, I realized that when I thought he was looking for a rock to knock me out, he wasn't actually looking for a rock. He was looking to steal something to keep as a trophy.

• 28:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Nineteen year old Paul Youssef of Brampton was charged this week with assault, assault with a weapon and assault causing bodily harm in connection to two alleged incidents, Henry's and another that happened six days later, that incident taking place at nearby Jay Field Park.

• 29:03Speaker 04

  Law enforcement was able to identify and charge Paul Youssef. We don't have any information about the other victim as she was a minor at the time. Paul Youssef was arrested on September 28th, 2021. Darun now had a name for her attacker. And while she waited to see what would happen to him, she tried to continue living her life.

• 29:24Speaker 03

  I didn't sleep for maybe two weeks. I, I just couldn't. Although he wasn't successful, I went through a lot of the after effects.

• 29:34Speaker 04

  You know, it's interesting to use this word successful. And I know what you mean by it because he wasn't able to, you know, do what he planned to do, which when you were in that moment was very clear to you, looking in his eyes, you knew what he wanted to do.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:48Speaker 04

  It's still just like, he still attacked you.

• 29:52Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 29:52Speaker 04

  You know, you still had to go through that experience.

• 29:55Speaker 03

  He wasn't successful, but he was successful in breaking me and, you know, making me feel violated. I still feel very violated. For the first two weeks before he was caught, I went through this intense like PTSD where I felt like he was in my kitchen every night. Like I couldn't even go downstairs to like, get a glass of water because I felt like he was just there. There were many times where I would just be sitting on my front porch and like a man would walk by and I thought that man was going to come attack me and I would just run back into my home.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  The PTSD was so intense that I literally jumped one day and like.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  Almost freaked out on an elderly man at the beach.

• 30:50Speaker 04

  Something that's important to note, in Canada, you are not allowed to carry a weapon or any tool that is specifically for the purpose of self-defense, which would include pepper spray. It was difficult for Darun to feel safe out in the world, even during the day. After all, she'd been attacked in a public park at 11 a.m. She feared something like this would happen again, knowing her only recourse, if it ever did happen, would be to fight.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  One of the triggers I have is that, like, when a man is walking towards me and making eye contact, I get triggered. Or if there's somebody behind me, I will get triggered. And it will bring back that moment and I'll go into like defense mode. Like, I didn't want to be touched, like, even by my husband. Like, he couldn't even tap me on the shoulder without me jumping. I dressed in baggy clothes for weeks. Like, my body was, I felt so violated. There's a lot that victims go through that is not talked about.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Have you learned anything else about him throughout this process? Like, what does he do for work?

• 32:06Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Like, when we discovered who he was and it went public, I saw a few comments like, "Oh, I went to high school with this guy." So I went and I, like, did my own research. I found out that he's Iraqi, which is crazy because I'm Iraqi. I found out that he's my own people, and that was very disturbing. And that was one thing I found out about him. A lot of the girls I spoke to from his high school, I think I spoke to, like, two or three of them, all told me he was a creep and that, like, he didn't handle rejection very well.

• 32:51Speaker 04

  Darun waited in anticipation to see what would happen to her attacker, Paul Youssef. The waiting, she said, was uncomfortable, but it was also not a new feeling for her. This experience flooded her with memories from a different incident that happened when she was a child.

• 33:09Speaker 03

  This is also not my first predator. Um, when I was 11, I was groomed by my teacher, my drama teacher. Like, every kid wanted to be around him, like, because he was cool. And he was, you know, like, if Mr. Talenko liked you, like, you're cool. And I didn't know he was grooming me until he made it so obvious. And he was like, well, I have a question for you. Do you have pubic hair? I was like, whoa. And I was going through puberty. And like, I don't even talk about that stuff with my own parents. So like, for you to ask me as a teacher, I legitimately ran home that day.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  I think I answered him. I have no idea what my reaction was. I just was like, what the fuck, dude? And I ran out of there. Like, I went home and then I just avoided him for the remainder of the year. You know, um, I noticed he always had, like, a favorite student that was always a female, who was always in grade six. And the reason he targeted grade six students, and this is just all my theory, was because the year, I like, that was the last year of elementary. And then you go to middle school. And so you can kind of get away with doing whatever. And then they were off to the next school, which is exactly what happened with me.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  I just moved on and I went to the next school and I forgot about it.

• 34:41Speaker 04

  Darun was clear that although her sixth grade teacher, Greg Talenko, had not physically abused her, his actions were harmful. He was a teacher, someone in a trusted position of authority, and he'd used that power to manipulate her. At the time, Darun didn't know the term grooming, but she does now. And that is exactly what Greg Talenko was doing. Darun listened to her instincts and distanced herself from Talenko, never telling anyone what happened. That is, until two years later, when she learned that she was not Talenko's only target.

• 35:18Speaker 03

  And then two years later, it came up that like the after the year I left, there was like five girls that he was, you know, um grooming and had invited back to his house and shown them porn on his computer. He had shown them his privates and like he took it so far with those girls, you know, that they, I guess, thought it was a joke. They didn't realize what was happening and they told me, like, we were on the bus going to school, like they were in grade seven, I was in grade eight, and they were telling me all these stories. And I was like, you guys, like, we have to come forward.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  And it was my idea to come forward because I have a younger sister. And he used to call her little Darun. And I just knew that, like, she was his next target. So I I really did it for my sister. And yeah, at a young age, I had to get questioned. I felt like I was getting interrogated by the police. There was like victim blaming involved at that time as well with the new teachers in grade eight. Like, I remember getting treated differently because of coming forward. And so, um, yeah, this is this cuts deep because I still have trauma from the age of eleven, twelve, thirteen.

• 36:49Speaker 04

  Darun was in middle school, a time wrought with difficulties and insecurities for most of us. But still, she decided to speak out and lead the charge in bringing Greg Talenko's actions to light. Darun's younger sister was going into sixth grade the next year, and she did not want her to have the same experiences with Talenko. As a result of Darun and others speaking out in two thousand one, Greg Talenko was arrested and charged with sexual assault, invitation to sexual touching, sexual interference, and criminal harassment. He had been teaching at Cedar Drive Public School for twelve years at that point.

• 37:28Speaker 03

  I was very afraid of like coming out because as a child you think that like you did something wrong for the teacher to ask me a question like that, like what did, what did you do for him to ask you that, right? Like that was how my mind worked. At the end of the day, I feel like my voice is there like this time around. Like I fought so hard because of little Darun, because like little Darun never got justice. Like I was just like, ah, I'm just like a witness in all this, but really I was a victim and I was groomed and my innocence was stolen. But I was okay with like not getting the justice as long as he was in trouble and as

• 38:11Speaker 03

  long as like there was other victims to help me prove that this guy was, shouldn't be a teacher, shouldn't even be around kids.

• 38:22Speaker 04

  I asked Darun what she meant when she said she never got justice as a child. And what came to light was that she felt she missed out on the process. She wasn't considered a main victim in the case, which she understands. But as a result, her story wasn't part of the case and she did not attend any of the hearings. She didn't get to see it. She was just left to process what had happened to her alone. As a result of this, even years later, she explained that she still has questions and she never really got closure. And when she was attacked on September 15th, 2021 in Massey Park, suddenly this incident from middle school came back into her mind.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  I actually thought about Mr. Talanco on my walk back home. Like it happened immediately, like after the attack and I was walking back home, I thought of him and I remembered that experience. Um, it just came up and I was just so angry about the world. Like I'm just, I was just so angry. It just, it just came up, I guess. It was just like that.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  Blocked trauma that was still in there. It all came up.

• 39:38Speaker 04

  Darun spoke up in middle school and again, as an adult after she was attacked in Massey Park. Her motivation to warn others, to advocate for victims, and perhaps to make a big deal about something that is a big deal. Sometimes, though, you can do all the right things and still be let down.

• 40:00Speaker 04

  When I first spoke with Darun in the fall of 2024, she told me that she was still waiting to know the results of Paul Youssef's case. I decided to see what I could find out. So I called the Peel Regional Police and then they directed me to the Davis Courthouse in Brampton. We don't directly talk about this in the interview, but what happened was I was emailed the case documents the day before we recorded this interview with Darun. I found out that the sentencing hearing had already happened. It happened in May of 2024. Paul Youssef was sentenced to four months of conditional sentence, house arrest, and two years probation. I didn't want to spring this information on Darun during the recording,

• 40:44Speaker 04

  so I sent her an email the night before the interview with the case information. She later told me that while she is glad to have this information, it was also very difficult to receive, and it opened up a whole new set of worries for her.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  I had been waiting for three years. Nobody has updated me on anything. He only got four months of house arrest. He also lives in our neighborhood. So he lives within five kilometers of us. So that's the other scary part is like, yeah, like he's free now.

• 41:24Speaker 03

  And I had no idea.

• 41:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty like ridiculous that they didn't update you on all of that. Even just to keep you informed, I feel like that should have happened.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  I I can't believe it. I legitimately had a mental breakdown last night. When I saw your message, I was like, what? That is impossible. Like, how could, how could they not tell me?

• 41:52Speaker 04

  I I I wasn't able to get a hold of anyone to to ask them these questions, but it started, you know, it was so shocking to me when I heard that. Because he attacked two people. Clearly, he was past you, hid his bike, was watching you. And maybe it goes back to this idea of was he quote unquote successful? And if he, you know, because he wasn't, then he gets a lesser sentence, but it really brings up this question of justice, because how is that justice?

• 42:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not. It's a nightmare. Yeah, like, it's it's almost as if, like, you have to end up, like, dead in the woods for them to actually care. Or like, do anything. And and that's truly how I feel. Like, oh, you got attacked? Well, shit happens every day, Darun. Like, move on, right? Like, that's that's how I took it. Like, well, you're lucky enough, you could fight, fight, right? Like, you're lucky you got away. Like, it's all luck. It's like a game of luck. Like, I I just kind of want to reiterate my message to women.

• 43:02Speaker 03

  And it's that you have a voice, right? And like, that you're powerful. And that you're stronger than you believe to be, and that you can also punch a man in the face and survive, and that it's okay to freeze. I I think that was one thing that, like, I felt like a lot of victims came forward and kept saying, like, I wish I had your strength. I wish I had done something. But I'm like, I want to remind women that I also froze in that moment, like, right after I punched him and like, that it's a very natural reaction to have, but the more prepared you are,

• 43:44Speaker 03

  right? Like, I I just feel like I was prepared and that, you know. At the end of the day, I feel like, you know, I was very successful, quote unquote, in getting him captured and, you know, all that stuff because it rarely goes that far, right?

• 44:12Georgia Hardstark?

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• 46:54Speaker 02

  Wow, that was an incredible interview. I'm so, I feel so lucky she shared her story with us.

• 47:00Speaker 04

  Me too. Yeah, it was really powerful and I'm so glad that she spoke with us.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  Going into these interviews, we have to do some level of prep. And in this case, you discovered that Paul Youssef had already actually had his court proceedings.

• 47:15Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  So do you want to talk a little bit about how you navigated that going into the interview with Darun?

• 47:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's not something I think I would have known how to do or felt comfortable doing before we started working in podcasting. Because basically, I couldn't find any information about it online. Neither could Darun, which is why she believed that the case was still open. And so I called the police station where the article I did find where he was arrested. And then they told me the courthouse, which was like in a different county. So then I called the courthouse and got ahold of them. And then I was able to get the court documents. And I was really surprised to learn that the case was closed, that his sentencing hearing had already happened, like six weeks ago.

• 47:59Speaker 04

  Six months before, and I don't know exactly why, why he got a four-month conditional sentence and two years probation. But the most shocking thing to me was that Darun had not been updated and had not been able to find this information.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  And lived so close to him.

• 48:18Speaker 04

  Lived like a few miles away. I had no idea.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  Such a nightmare.

• 48:22Speaker 04

  Okay, so this takes place in Canada, which is different than the US, and I'm not as familiar with the laws there. It was difficult, honestly, even getting the court paperwork, much more difficult than I found in the US when I've sought out records. So I reached out to a few different reporters. Essentially, I didn't get a clear answer on this, on what the process is, and also why a victim wouldn't be informed. But you might have some information about this.

• 48:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, after we talked about this and came to this sort of realization that we weren't even clear on what Darun's rights were as a victim of someone who physically assaulted her, probably with the intent to sexually assault her.

• 49:04Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  You know, it was really alarming. And so I went ahead and contacted a victim advocacy group called the Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime. And I spoke with the representative there, and she had some really interesting information. Essentially, in Canada, there exists the Canadian Victims' Bill of Rights. And Darun had a lot more rights than I think were exercised, and probably that's because she didn't even know that she had those rights. And it also goes back to, well, she's the victim of a crime, and so is the onus on the victim to go say, okay, what are my rights? Or is it on law enforcement to say, okay, here's your rights, or connect you to someone who can make you aware so that you can stay safe throughout this ordeal?

• 49:48Speaker 02

  And basically, she has what's called a right to information, which is about the status of the investigation, the alleged offense, the location of proceedings, available services, right to protection, right to participation, which is conveying their views when decisions are made by authorities.

• 50:05Speaker 04

  Well, this is why I was shocked, because so many cases we've covered before. Victims will get a chance to offer a victim impact statement at a sentencing hearing, which can influence a sentence on someone, right? If a judge hears that this was incredibly emotionally traumatic or whatever, that could be informative in sentencing. Well, if the victim is not informed about the sentencing hearing, they have no chance to offer a victim impact statement.

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Right, and I think, you know, Druin put it so well in the interview when she was talking about how, you know, this person attacked her in broad daylight. In broad daylight, I think it was 11:30 AM. She was like, of course he was going to do this again. And she was right.

• 50:46Speaker 04

  And was keeping trophies.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Was keeping trophies. Like, he was not someone who was just going to be, um, kind of come to the realization that he shouldn't be doing this. He's dangerous. And so it was really scary, I'm sure, for her to learn that he actually lives quite close. And she had no idea what the status was of the case. No one told her. And she, it turns out, did have a right to that information. Now, when I spoke to the representative from this advocacy group, they said that it's not exactly clear whose job it is to say, here are your rights. But that if you are a victim of a crime in Canada, especially a violent crime, you should be able to ask law enforcement, what are some resources I can have access to?

• 51:31Speaker 02

  And they should be able to point you in this direction of either an advocacy group or paperwork that outlines your rights for you. And it's unfortunate, but it sounds like you do have to do some self-advocating to get that information. But it does exist. So, you know, it's not ideal, but I think that it's an important takeaway for anyone who might find themselves in an unfortunate situation like this. Because I think had Druin known, she would have absolutely exercised those rights.

• 51:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's a good practice to, if you find yourself in that situation, to ask that of law enforcement. Who do I contact? What's the number? How often will I be updated? You know? Ask all the questions. It's hard to also put that on a victim. When hearing Druin's story, it's like the shock even.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:19Speaker 04

  After this attack, she's not, she doesn't have the presence of mind to do that, I'm sure. But even to be able to reach out after, you know, one of the things that I feel like I've learned from trying to track information down, calling courthouses, calling police stations, is like, you know, bureaucratic institutions are not just going to be like, here, let me help you and give you all this information.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  No.

• 52:43Speaker 04

  You just have to be like, okay, keep asking, keep asking. Okay, well, you should contact this department. Cool. How do I do that? What would that website or that phone number be? You just have to ask a ton of questions, which it's unfortunate that's the case, but yeah.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to be kind of a bulldog about it. I mean, you and I have been contacting courthouses and looking for court records and reaching out to law enforcement for a long time now, but still, sometimes I have a really hard time figuring out, how do I get to this person? Oh, you have to go through this other person and, you know, pretty soon you're following up three times. And, you know, for us, working in podcasting, obviously, that's a less important email than a victim, but I think the same bureaucratic nightmare exists where you're like, okay, but who do I call? What is the number? And they're like, let me look into that.

• 53:31Speaker 04

  Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, that sounds like a really helpful organization. We should put that in the show notes.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're also, you know, there's no cost to utilizing their services.

• 53:41Speaker 04

  Oh, that's fantastic.

• 53:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:43Speaker 04

  Do they serve all of Canada?

• 53:44Speaker 02

  I think they serve all of Canada, but I know they serve Ontario, and they help people who have experienced violent crime. They have a homicide support group. They really have a lot of resources that I didn't even know existed that are more specific. So the Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime, I'm just reading from what it says on their website, "The CRCVC provides support, research, and education to survivors of serious crime and stakeholders in Canada." So, reach out to them if you need victim advocacy. I think that it was so easy for me to reach them and hop on a call. I've no doubt that they would help point someone in the right direction.

• 54:22Speaker 04

  Love that.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  So if anyone is interested in reaching out to the Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime, you can go to their website, it's CRCVC.ca, and there's a Contact Us link, and that is how I reached them, and I heard back within a day.

• 54:35Speaker 04

  Amazing.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, amazing. That was a great interview.

• 54:38Speaker 04

  Fantastic.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  We'll be back next week.

• 54:40Speaker 04

  All right, looking forward to it.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is [email protected], or you can follow us on Instagram at The Knife Podcast or Blue Sky at The Knife Podcast.

• 54:54Speaker 04

  This has been an Exactly Right production, hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  And me, Paysha Eaton. Our producers are Tom Breyfogle and Alexa Samorosi.

• 55:03Speaker 04

  This episode was mixed by Tom Breyfogle.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

• 55:08Speaker 04

  Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  Artwork by Vanessa Lilak.

• 55:12Speaker 04

  Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, and Danielle Kramer.

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• 56:49Karen Kilgariff?

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