Twin Peaks: The Return (Episodes 9-13) with Fran Hoepfner

Dougie gets it on (or, more accurately, Naomi Watts gets HER Dougie on), guest Fran Hoepfner pitches her artisanal slime for adults (don’t steal the idea), and we relitigate LOST for the hundredth time in this penultimate episode of our Twin Peaks: The Return coverage. Can adults get mono? Why is it so hard for Lucy and Andy to buy a chair? THAT is the Audrey Horne plot? Will someone please have sympathy for David Sims, who isn’t going gray yet and desperately wants a cool subway-themed videogame? Listen to Slow Xmas 4 now on Bandcamp https://bonesoundinc.bandcamp.com/album/slow-xmas-4! The Box Office Game is Sponsored by Regal Cinemas: Sign up for Regal Unlimited today http://blankcheckpod.com/regal and get 20% off your 3 month subscription when using code BLANKCHECK Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36Griffin Newman?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around. Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:47Speaker 04

  What? What are you doing? We're trying to record a podcast. We're already late. We're late.

• 1:52Griffin Newman?

  For the podcast. It's way past 12:30. Why is this happening? I saw that gun go shooting out the window. Fran Hoepfner is joining us. We haven't seen her in a long while. We're late. We got five episodes to go. Please, we have to record the podcast. She's sick.

• 2:13David Sims?

  Is that Naomi Watts?

• 2:15Griffin Newman?

  No, this is the woman in the car.

• 2:17David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, right. Of course, of course. Right. Oh, God.

• 2:19Griffin Newman?

  Kind of my favorite scene.

• 2:20David Sims?

  That scene is so intense. Oh, God. Yeah, yeah. No, amazing.

• 2:26Griffin Newman?

  You know what's kind of difficult?

• 2:27David Sims?

  What's? Finding quotes from individual chunks of Twin Peaks 3.

• 2:32Griffin Newman?

  Into like four parts and then being like, I gotta find a quote for one of these episodes.

• 2:36David Sims?

  You didn't have to. You could have begun the episode with like, I can't find a quote because of the specific format of this.

• 2:41Griffin Newman?

  Here's the problem. We've been doing this show so fucking long that I've done that move four times now, probably. The novelty of weird, I couldn't find a quote is now overplayed. So I had to do that thing that was exciting, that was riveting.

• 2:55David Sims?

  It was fantastic and it reminded me that I watched these episodes a little bit ago because of course, why didn't I recognize that a little?

• 3:02Griffin Newman?

  What? When did you watch them?

• 3:04David Sims?

  I don't know. Like, you know, a few weeks back.

• 3:07Griffin Newman?

  David's gesturing with his head like it's in the corner.

• 3:10David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah. I haven't watched the next chunk.

• 3:14Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 3:15Speaker 05

  I haven't either.

• 3:17Speaker 05

  And I haven't seen, this is my first time watching this, so I actually don't.

• 3:20Griffin Newman?

  We're in the same place.

• 3:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:22Speaker 05

  Okay. I was worried about not being caught, like, fully caught up.

• 3:25David Sims?

  No, we've been, we've been both for Griffin and Ben's sake, but also for listeners who are maybe also watching for the first time.

• 3:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:33David Sims?

  You know, mindful of like not talking about what's going to happen.

• 3:37Griffin Newman?

  Now, can I say, there are two things.

• 3:39David Sims?

  Maggie did shoot Mr. Burns.

• 3:42Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 3:44David Sims?

  And, uh, what's another like?

• 3:47Griffin Newman?

  Tried to steal candy for her baby and he was. Pointing at M and S. They thought it was Waylon Smithers because they were looking at it from the wrong direction, but he was doing M and S.

• 3:55David Sims?

  Yes.

• 3:56Griffin Newman?

  Maggie Simpson.

• 3:57David Sims?

  Uh, what's another like famous TV cliffhanger that's not Who Shot J R that I could sort of?

• 4:02Griffin Newman?

  Well, because of course Maggie Simpson shot J R.

• 4:04David Sims?

  Yeah, she did.

• 4:05Griffin Newman?

  Tried to steal candy from her baby and he pointed at M and S.

• 4:07David Sims?

  Motherfucker.

• 4:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 4:08David Sims?

  Uh.

• 4:09Griffin Newman?

  What's another TV cliffhanger? Uh, Who Killed Laura Palmer? I feel like that's a big.

• 4:13David Sims?

  But no, but that wasn't a cliffhanger. That's the premise of the show.

• 4:15Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 4:16David Sims?

  I'm talking about a classic TV cliffhanger where it's like, okay, guys.

• 4:20Griffin Newman?

  What's in the hat?

• 4:21Speaker 05

  Well, I was gonna say we have to go back later.

• 4:24David Sims?

  We Have To Go Back is probably the best end of season.

• 4:28Speaker 05

  In Lost.

• 4:28David Sims?

  Like, that Lost ever did.

• 4:30Griffin Newman?

  But that's kind of an interesting one because it's less a cliffhanger and more being like, holy shit, that's where the show is going next.

• 4:36David Sims?

  Right, like more like a reorientation.

• 4:39Griffin Newman?

  Right. You didn't know how that was gonna manifest?

• 4:41David Sims?

  What's in the hatch isn't, isn't bad as a, but a lot of people at the time were kind of like, wait, they're just gonna open the door? And we don't even like, all the whole season of them waiting to open this fucking door and then we don't know what's in there?

• 4:54Griffin Newman?

  I thought it was great. And you know, you know what was great? The answer. My favorite guy.

• 4:58Speaker 05

  He's awesome.

• 4:59David Sims?

  Big D.

• 4:59Griffin Newman?

  Lost fucking.

• 5:00Speaker 05

  I've been thinking a lot about Lost.

• 5:01Griffin Newman?

  Nailed.

• 5:02Speaker 05

  Both because I've been watching this and I think about that time of my life, but also Lost is holding up.

• 5:08Griffin Newman?

  You know, I haven't.

• 5:09David Sims?

  Lost is doing great.

• 5:09Griffin Newman?

  I haven't done the rewatch. Uh, Joe Robinson, when she was doing, uh, the Lost.

• 5:15David Sims?

  Rewatch.

• 5:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I asked to come on only for Desmond episodes because Desmond's my guy. So I rewatched only the Desmond arc, basically his solo episode.

• 5:25David Sims?

  Pretty great if you.

• 5:26Griffin Newman?

  Which I thought like interesting and also felt very, um, evocative, uh, during lockdown to watch the Desmond arc. Uh, and he's my main guy, but I've been, I've been tempted to go back and watch all of it. Look, it's been coming up a lot in our watch through of Twin Peaks. Because this, of course, is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 5:45David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 5:46Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers. They're given a series of blank checks, make whatever crazy passion products they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. This is a mini series on the films of David Lynch, but also his TV shows. It's called Twin Pods Firecast with me.

• 6:07Griffin Newman?

  Today, we're covering episodes nine through 13.

• 6:11David Sims?

  Uh, that's correct.

• 6:12Griffin Newman?

  Of Twin Peaks: The Return. And Lost has been coming up a lot as, when you watch a thing like this, you're forced to like, compare it to all the other great failures and successes of the kind of like, shows that keep you on tender hooks. Spin out their mythology, raise questions, answer them or not, these things that become cultural phenomenons and how they sustain themselves.

• 6:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I think Lost also had that thing, especially in later seasons, where the sea storyline for an episode would be something extremely mundane.

• 6:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 6:44Speaker 05

  Of like, "We're gonna set up a library on the island," or like, the golf course thing, and there would be these almost little like, soapy kind of storylines that had nothing to do with the greater mystery of anything, would just be like, "Well, if you live on an island now, you're gonna want a golf course," I guess.

• 6:58Griffin Newman?

  It's fascinating because at the time, that was a thing that people would point to of like, they don't know where they're doing, the show's gonna fuck it up. Like, it's getting thin.

• 7:07Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 7:07Griffin Newman?

  And then, Twin Peaks: The Return is David Lynch being like, "What if I really didn't resolve the things that you guys cared about? What if I didn't even spend that much time on the things that you previously associate with the show?" Uh, it's like, kinda crazy that Audrey only comes in in this block of episodes.

• 7:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:27David Sims?

  Audrey's, Audrey's part in Twin Peaks: The Return is is a real curveball in general, I would say.

• 7:33Griffin Newman?

  I'm already trying to wrap my head around it, and I cannot guess what's to come. Now, can I take you to task, David?

• 7:39David Sims?

  You can do whatever you want, but, uh, I was just looking at some like, cliffhangers. I mean, like, Buffy dying at the end of season five, but that is-

• 7:48Griffin Newman?

  Spoilers!

• 7:49David Sims?

  Well, sorry. Uh, but that kind of felt like, you know, one of those things where you're like, "Well, I mean, it's coming back, so I assume they'll figure that out." You know, like, it's a little different from like-

• 8:01Griffin Newman?

  Unresolved question.

• 8:02David Sims?

  Uh, the best of both worlds, the, the classic, uh, cliffhanger of season three of Star Trek: The Next Generation, where like, Picard gets turned into a Borg, and they're like- To be continued. And you are truly like, I have to wait four months?

• 8:15Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 8:16David Sims?

  To find out. I mean, again, you're like, I assume he won't be anymore, but like, you know, that, that, you don't get that anymore.

• 8:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 8:23Speaker 05

  I think killing Angel in Buffy was more of a cliffhanger almost than killing Buffy.

• 8:28Griffin Newman?

  Killing Angel.

• 8:30Speaker 05

  Or when they banish him, they banish him to whatever.

• 8:32David Sims?

  They just kick him into the hell mouth, right? He comes back out and he starts a great detective agency. And then nine episodes into that detective agency, he's like, I'm gonna revamp the cast completely because this isn't working. And then, then, then they made a good show.

• 8:43Speaker 05

  Way better show.

• 8:44David Sims?

  Yeah. And then they revamped the cast one more time because Joss Whedon is a, you know, a problematic manager. And that, that final season also rocks.

• 8:51Speaker 05

  Oh, it's so good.

• 8:52David Sims?

  Season five of Angel.

• 8:53Speaker 05

  It's like the greatest.

• 8:55David Sims?

  If you ever get to it. It's so fucking good. That's, but you, you know about the Muppet episode, right?

• 9:00Griffin Newman?

  That's Edlin's episode.

• 9:01David Sims?

  I know. But you know about that, right?

• 9:03Griffin Newman?

  Of course. Small Time.

• 9:04David Sims?

  So fucking good.

• 9:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. But did he, I think he wrote and directed that?

• 9:08David Sims?

  He definitely wrote it.

• 9:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 05

  You know, what if we took this vampire show and made it Boston legal is a great question.

• 9:15David Sims?

  And you're just like, well, that wouldn't work. And then you're like, watch it work. And you're like, this works.

• 9:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 9:20David Sims?

  But like, it's, it's more than that. It's like, what if he started working for the villains? And you're like, okay, that's a TV plot.

• 9:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 9:26David Sims?

  Right? Like, oh, the villains of this show the whole time. And now he's like, now you gotta work for him. But the villains in Angel are an evil law firm. So they managed to turn it into like a weird evil law firm show.

• 9:37Griffin Newman?

  So fucking lost, right? Our guest says Fran Hoepfner. I already cited in the.

• 9:42David Sims?

  He did direct it too, yes.

• 9:43Griffin Newman?

  In the quote. Thank you. Fran Hoepfner, Fran Magazine.

• 9:47Speaker 05

  That's right. Features editor.

• 9:50Griffin Newman?

  Oh, wow. New title.

• 9:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was thinking about.

• 9:51David Sims?

  You demoted yourself?

• 9:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was thinking about demoting myself, being like, I got bought out or something.

• 9:55Griffin Newman?

  You sold to Penske.

• 9:57David Sims?

  You could have like an evil publisher who you're always railing against. Like in the comments, you'd be like, Fran Magazine would be producing more, but, but for evil EIC or like, yeah. Clicks, yeah.

• 10:09Speaker 05

  My brother, who's like a founding member, is always sending me editorial notes.

• 10:13David Sims?

  Cause he's a founding member.

• 10:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, he's like, you haven't talked about WWE at all. And I'm like, well, I don't know anything about that. He's like, well, the readers are interested in that.

• 10:21David Sims?

  I'm hearing on the wind.

• 10:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:24Griffin Newman?

  I, I think part of the, the conversation around Lost and it being one of the first shows where it really felt like there was a profound, profound discussion happening between the internet and the makers of the show. Right? And people sort of felt empowered, that they were like, we're being heard and recognized.

• 10:45David Sims?

  Yes.

• 10:46Griffin Newman?

  I think the long tail of that, a thing that now is pervasive, especially in like streaming shows and sort of like shorter seasons spaced out and whatever, is like, we need to maintain the sense that we know where this is going from the beginning. And what I miss is the sloppiness of TV being like, fuck, something in the chaos of us just needing to produce 22 episodes in nine month stretches with only three months off, causes people to sometimes just be like, fuck, what if this is a legal show now?

• 11:13David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 11:14Griffin Newman?

  We don't care about it seeming like this was our plan the whole time.

• 11:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, or like, what if they go back to the seventies?

• 11:19Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 11:19Speaker 05

  On Lost.

• 11:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes, just fun shifts like that. David, I want to take your task.

• 11:24David Sims?

  Okay, what did I do?

• 11:26Griffin Newman?

  You spoiled two things for me.

• 11:27David Sims?

  Okay.

• 11:28Griffin Newman?

  You're saying that you're trying not to talk ahead about what hasn't happened.

• 11:31David Sims?

  I'm, and I'm sorry if I messed up. What did I do?

• 11:34Griffin Newman?

  The parentage, Audrey Horn, Billy's the son's name?

• 11:38David Sims?

  Yeah, uh, uh, Richard Horn.

• 11:40Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry, Richard Horn.

• 11:41David Sims?

  Yes, I referred to him with his last name, forgetting that of course that is sort of a spoiler.

• 11:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes. I think we cut it out of its episode, but you ruined that for me. But here's the bigger one.

• 11:53David Sims?

  I would say it's not important really who he is, but it is sort of, I guess.

• 11:58Griffin Newman?

  Can't say, can't say that, I mean, the moment was stolen for me. I didn't get to experience it. Here's the bigger one that I find more offensive. In our last episode, I raised the philosophical question, does Dougie fuck?

• 12:10David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 12:10Griffin Newman?

  And you said, of course, we see Dougie fuck.

• 12:12David Sims?

  And I was talking about a future episode.

• 12:14Griffin Newman?

  How, I think I'd remember that if that happened. And then when the sex scene happens in this, I'm like, this is what hundred percent what David was talking about.

• 12:21David Sims?

  Yeah, I'm sorry. I was an episode off.

• 12:24Griffin Newman?

  It's another thing that would have rattled me to my core.

• 12:26David Sims?

  What, Dougie fucking?

• 12:27Griffin Newman?

  And apparently fucking better than anyone while doing as little as possible.

• 12:32David Sims?

  But like, he's just, you know, he's just got his mojo.

• 12:35Speaker 05

  Why wouldn't Dougie fuck?

• 12:37Griffin Newman?

  Cause we.

• 12:38David Sims?

  Well, cause he doesn't barely knows how to like, put his pants on.

• 12:40Griffin Newman?

  Right. And I was like, there's no direct implication. I was reading that they're sleeping together.

• 12:49Griffin Newman?

  So I was like, let's fill in the space here. And David was like, of course, we've seen him fuck already.

• 12:53David Sims?

  Right, right, right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I spoiled for you that Dougie does get that thing on. Yeah, he does, uh, you know, whatever, go to pound town.

• 13:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 13:04David Sims?

  With, uh, his wife.

• 13:05Griffin Newman?

  It's more like Emmy Watts gets her Dougie on.

• 13:07David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 13:09Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 13:09David Sims?

  Um, welcome Fran.

• 13:11Griffin Newman?

  Welcome Fran.

• 13:12David Sims?

  Uh, how are you doing?

• 13:15Speaker 05

  Oh, I'm, I'm pretty good.

• 13:17David Sims?

  Long ago.

• 13:18Speaker 05

  I'm happy to be here. Yeah.

• 13:21David Sims?

  Uh, I asked you if you wanted to talk about Twin Peaks on, uh, show, this show.

• 13:28Griffin Newman?

  On show.

• 13:29David Sims?

  I guess initially we were thinking we would talk about Wild at Heart.

• 13:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 13:32David Sims?

  And then you got mononucleosis, not to blow up your spot.

• 13:35Speaker 05

  No, it's fine. Everyone knows. I got mononucleosis.

• 13:38Griffin Newman?

  A cute mono?

• 13:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 13:39Griffin Newman?

  Adorable mono?

• 13:41Speaker 05

  Sometimes.

• 13:42Griffin Newman?

  That's what I used to call it when I had it. It sucks, doesn't it?

• 13:45Speaker 05

  It's really bad. Cause there's kind of nothing they can do for you.

• 13:48Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 13:48Speaker 05

  They're like, well, you have it.

• 13:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 13:50Griffin Newman?

  You have, right. This is just like, run out the clock.

• 13:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. And I've told this story, but I'm older than the usual person who gets mono. And so they refused to test.

• 14:01Griffin Newman?

  Sixteen? What's our, the age within canon?

• 14:03Speaker 05

  Oh, I think I'm 26 now.

• 14:05Griffin Newman?

  Right, 26.

• 14:06Speaker 05

  But they were like, you're too old.

• 14:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:08Speaker 05

  For mono. So they didn't want to test me. I had to like, beg them to test me for mono. The mono test came back positive on the like, doctor online portal, but then they called me to confirm it. When they called me to confirm it, they said, and just checking your age is 13 years old? Uh, and I'd be like, no. And so they kept, they said like, adult mono, which also really.

• 14:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:27Speaker 05

  Made me laugh, though they're no different, I believe.

• 14:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I mean, I think I got it when I was 20. Twenty-two?

• 14:34Speaker 05

  I think that's, I know most people who had it, had it in like, college.

• 14:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they treated me like I was geriatric.

• 14:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Uh, but it's a bu- you feel like a teenager. It's weird.

• 14:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, I got all like, weak and sleepy and...

• 14:50Griffin Newman?

  And you're just gonna like, "Shut, Mom, shut up!"

• 14:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. My, well, my lymph nodes got really huge. I couldn't wear, I couldn't wear my glasses because my lymph nodes behind my ears got so big.

• 15:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:00Speaker 05

  That my glasses didn't fit anymore. It was just all this stupid stuff. And so I just slept for all of July and I had no voice when I was first supposed to come on.

• 15:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 15:08Speaker 05

  Because of the sore throat. So I couldn't speak. I was silenced.

• 15:10Griffin Newman?

  Right, so then I, rudely.

• 15:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:13Griffin Newman?

  By the mainstream media.

• 15:14Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:14Griffin Newman?

  And your body.

• 15:15Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:15Griffin Newman?

  Uh, I said to David, "Maybe let's have Fran do a Twin Peaks return."

• 15:20Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. So that gives more time for recovery. I did not know you had not watched it.

• 15:25Speaker 05

  No, I mean, Lynch was a huge blind spot for me. Everything that I've watched.

• 15:29Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 15:30Speaker 05

  Leading up to this has been the first time I've seen it. Yeah.

• 15:33Griffin Newman?

  At heart.

• 15:34David Sims?

  That's true. Um, so you've watched all of Twin Peaks, seasons one, two, and three, right?

• 15:42Speaker 05

  No.

• 15:42Griffin Newman?

  No, she said she hasn't watched.

• 15:43Speaker 05

  I have the five eps left of...

• 15:45David Sims?

  No, I know, one and two.

• 15:46Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 15:46David Sims?

  And then, right, all the way up to here.

• 15:48Speaker 05

  All the way up to here.

• 15:49David Sims?

  Like, over the last few months.

• 15:50Speaker 05

  I watched Fire Walk With Me and I watched about half the films.

• 15:53David Sims?

  Sure.

• 15:53Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:54Speaker 05

  I'll do the rest.

• 15:55David Sims?

  Yeah, whenever, no rush. Take your time.

• 15:56Griffin Newman?

  What are your general feelings on David Lynch?

• 15:58David Sims?

  Yeah, how's that been?

• 15:59Griffin Newman?

  Newly?

• 16:00Speaker 05

  Uh, he's not really one of my guys. But, um, and, and I'll be, and I don't have like, a greater intellectual reason to

• 16:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 16:10Speaker 05

  Say that. He, like, I had sort of put off getting into his stuff because it just never felt like it was going to be for me.

• 16:17Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:17Speaker 05

  Um, and I think the stuff that I've really gravitated towards in watching has been his most like, ostensibly quote-unquote "normal" stuff, like Elephant Man is probably my favorite thing.

• 16:29Griffin Newman?

  It's my favorite.

• 16:30Speaker 05

  That I've watched, but that's because it's austere and it reminds me of other stuff that I know that I like. Um, but the more that I get into Twin Peaks, the more I think about Lost, which is a

• 16:42Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 16:42Speaker 05

  Fawn time in my life. And I think- I had this thing of like, I really loved season one of Twin Peaks. Season two, I think, like a lot of people, I had a lot of fatigue and annoyance with. I liked the sort of first chunk and then when it goes off, it really lost me. And then it only very kind of got me back. And then I really was feeling very down on Lynch and then watching Fire Walk with me sort of brought me back really big and I loved that. And so the return, I feel so completely baffled by it. And I think it's appealing to both all the things that I liked about original Twin Peaks, while also indulging in all the things of his stuff that doesn't really work.

• 17:26Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 17:27Speaker 05

  Interest me, yeah.

• 17:28Griffin Newman?

  I definitely, like, there's a, there's an odd thing. I mean, you've talked about David. And I remember seeing this kind of scuttlebutt online of like people's, some people's impatience with like, when is Good Coop gonna return and when is the show gonna like actually start?

• 17:47David Sims?

  The realization of.

• 17:49Griffin Newman?

  It's this the whole time.

• 17:50David Sims?

  Right. Oh, so it's not, this isn't just some like preamble to us getting to Cooper is whole again and is solving crimes in Twin Peaks. It's like, no, no, no, the journey is the entire season, like, and that's the story being told here, right?

• 18:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 18:04David Sims?

  No one told you that in advance, so when it was happening, there was a lot of confusion. And yeah, we've talked about it, you know, it was crazy.

• 18:11Griffin Newman?

  I find it helpful that I'm watching this knowing that, like, having years to process secondhand, oh, I should not put any expectations onto this of what I think it's gonna be and try to take it for what it is. I do definitely still at this point, episode 13, like, three quarters of the way through it, feel like I don't really have any holistic handle.

• 18:34Speaker 05

  No, I feel like I have no handle on it whatsoever, but it's frustrating me less and exciting me.

• 18:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 18:40Speaker 05

  More. And my memory of this show airing at the time was that I felt like I would come into the office days after an episode would air and people would.

• 18:48Griffin Newman?

  Fran magazine.

• 18:48Speaker 05

  At Fran magazine and my editorial staff would be just like trying to explain it.

• 18:54Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 18:55Speaker 05

  To each other and it felt like when the adults are talking and Charlie Brown, where it's just like, I couldn't process it out of context, but even now, I think having someone try to explain it to me would not make sense and I'm watching it.

• 19:06David Sims?

  Well, I'm gonna try anyway.

• 19:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, it's, yeah, it's just sort of much more experiential than I realized and much less. Looking at actors who I once saw young and now they're old. Um, but I, I always love that.

• 19:20Griffin Newman?

  I keep talking about it.

• 19:22David Sims?

  Jevulushi.

• 19:22Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's crazy.

• 19:24Speaker 05

  I love him so much.

• 19:25Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but it's also crazy how many people are dead in this cast now.

• 19:29David Sims?

  Yeah, sure. I mean, we're, we're coming up on, I mean, it's, it's seven years ago this show now, right?

• 19:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but you have a handful of actors who died before it released where this is like their, their final statement. And then just a lot of people and some of it is just obviously like, this was a show that had an older supporting cast to begin with. Three decades early.

• 19:50David Sims?

  Who else are you thinking of who's dead? Kekner's still kicking.

• 19:53Griffin Newman?

  Kekner, Kekner's kicking. Uh, Forrester dead. Sizmore dead. Uh, Coulson dead. Right? Catherine Coulson? Am I getting it right?

• 20:01David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, I, I meant, right.

• 20:04Speaker 05

  Miguel.

• 20:04Griffin Newman?

  Miguel.

• 20:05David Sims?

  Yeah, well, those are the, right, those are the people, right, who died before the show came out.

• 20:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 20:09David Sims?

  But Sizmore, of course, we lost him recently.

• 20:11Speaker 05

  I got really scared that Michael Aunt Kena died and then I was like, oh, he's just retired.

• 20:16David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 20:16Speaker 05

  Which I respect, to be clear.

• 20:18David Sims?

  Yeah, absolutely. He's not dead. Uh, as far as I know, I haven't checked in with him lately.

• 20:24Griffin Newman?

  Hold on, I'm gonna do another dead count. This is like, I do a, every, like, once a month I check in and I'm like, let's take stock of how many original Toy Story cast members are dead. I want to have the active list and I feel like I need to do the same with Twin Peaks now.

• 20:37David Sims?

  Do you need to do that with Toy Story?

• 20:39Griffin Newman?

  Harley Army, Jim Varney.

• 20:41David Sims?

  Those are the big two.

• 20:43Griffin Newman?

  Well, but I'm saying the list is growing.

• 20:45David Sims?

  Rickles is, we, we lost.

• 20:46Griffin Newman?

  Rickles is gone. Estelle Harris is gone. When I say original, I mean.

• 20:49David Sims?

  Is Rickles?

• 20:49Speaker 05

  Rattenberg.

• 20:50Griffin Newman?

  Rattenberg is with us. Ned Beatty's gone.

• 20:54David Sims?

  Well, sure. Well, it's Toy Story three. I mean, he's not coming back, but I'm sort of like for Toy Story five.

• 20:58Griffin Newman?

  That doesn't count?

• 20:59David Sims?

  No, I'm saying like for Toy Story five.

• 21:01Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 21:01David Sims?

  Will there be no Mr. Potato Head?

• 21:03Griffin Newman?

  It's a great question.

• 21:04David Sims?

  Like what? Yeah. Do they start to kind of software retire these characters?

• 21:08Griffin Newman?

  Harris was still alive, recorded new dialogue for four, right?

• 21:10Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:11Griffin Newman?

  Rickles, they scrapped the movie and started over so late that Rickles had never started recording. So they constructed his performance out of leftover takes of things he had done for like the theme parks and commercials. Tools and shit.

• 21:25David Sims?

  Right.

• 21:25Griffin Newman?

  And in that movie, he just kinda makes like interjections from the side.

• 21:28David Sims?

  Right.

• 21:29Speaker 05

  I'm always scared now that it's all just gonna be like AI voice.

• 21:32Griffin Newman?

  That's my.

• 21:33Speaker 05

  Stuff which makes me sad and depresses me.

• 21:35Griffin Newman?

  Especially with something like that where you're like.

• 21:37David Sims?

  With the voices, they can kinda get away with it.

• 21:39Griffin Newman?

  But I'm like Rickles, the curveball, you can't fake that, right? Or the fastball, let's say. The Rickles fastball, the delivery. You could get the voice.

• 21:46Speaker 05

  Maybe they can't fool us, but. The execu- the executives, the shareholders, might be tricked.

• 21:53Griffin Newman?

  I'm hoping they retired the two of them.

• 21:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:55David Sims?

  Yeah, that'd be, I mean, I think that'd only be fair.

• 21:58Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 21:59David Sims?

  Just anyway, Twin Peaks The Return.

• 22:01Griffin Newman?

  I'm looking at the list. I'm trying to identify other people who've passed away. Go on, David.

• 22:04David Sims?

  What did you make of episode eight, Fran, before we?

• 22:07Griffin Newman?

  Peggy Lipton.

• 22:08David Sims?

  Move on to.

• 22:08Speaker 05

  The crazy one.

• 22:09David Sims?

  The crazy one.

• 22:10Griffin Newman?

  Peggy Lipton passed away.

• 22:12David Sims?

  She did. R I P Peggy.

• 22:13Griffin Newman?

  Harry Dean Stanton passed away.

• 22:14David Sims?

  He, he did. He was very old.

• 22:16Speaker 05

  He's one of those guys.

• 22:17Griffin Newman?

  He's pretty young.

• 22:18David Sims?

  He read young on screen.

• 22:20Griffin Newman?

  He looked.

• 22:21David Sims?

  For the last forty years, he seemed as young as anyone.

• 22:24Speaker 05

  Well, not to disagree with you guys, but he's one of those guys like Pete Poselway, where this guy's only ever been the oldest man who's ever in any room whatsoever.

• 22:32Griffin Newman?

  He was born a Benjamin Button baby.

• 22:33David Sims?

  You're like.

• 22:36David Sims?

  You know, you see him young and you're like, that's just a different person. That's not Harry Dean Stanton.

• 22:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:40David Sims?

  Like the Harry Dean Stanton I know was a hundred years old in Alien or whatever.

• 22:47Speaker 05

  The crazy episode.

• 22:49David Sims?

  Honestly, you look at young Harry Dean Stanton, he looks really old.

• 22:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he really did. He was born old.

• 22:54David Sims?

  He's pretty old here. He looks old.

• 22:56Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 22:57David Sims?

  Yeah, the cra- so episode eight, which we are drafting from, like, you know, we're, you know, moving off of to talk about this. Uh, sequ- sequence of episodes, but episode eight, um, is a break in format. Uh, and it has a big nuclear bomb and a bug and lots of crazy stuff.

• 23:13Griffin Newman?

  A less complete break than I had been led to believe. It has twenty minutes of functioning like an almost normal episode before it then hard pivots.

• 23:20Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 23:21Griffin Newman?

  I was ready for it to be complete, end to end standalone.

• 23:24David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 23:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 23:25Speaker 05

  I like thinking and drawing conclusions based on sort of visual evidence. So I just love to be shown a bunch of stuff and be like, go think about it.

• 23:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 23:33Speaker 05

  Think about what this is.

• 23:35Griffin Newman?

  So you were locked in on that one?

• 23:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, totally. Uh, and I almost would prefer more of just sort of watching. Things come to life without back and forth dialogue a lot of the time, I think. But I remember, this is, it's the only episode of this I remember when it aired in real time, just because I felt like everyone I knew was going completely insane.

• 23:56Griffin Newman?

  It's fat sized.

• 23:57Speaker 05

  Trying to make sense of it and reckoning with it being one of like the great modern episodes of television. But it's certainly not like anything I've ever seen quote unquote on TV. I'm sure you guys are getting into the weeds about, is this a movie or is it a TV show?

• 24:12Griffin Newman?

  I just, I so fundamentally think it is not.

• 24:15Speaker 05

  A movie?

• 24:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 24:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with you, but.

• 24:18Griffin Newman?

  Like, for me to accept that argument, he would need to re-edit it into one 18-hour work. Like, I just, I think, even though the show does not have some strict, like, episode format that it conforms to every time, I'm like, there is a shape to the hour cycles.

• 24:36David Sims?

  There is, and they, they end, you know, with, with music and so on and so forth.

• 24:39Griffin Newman?

  Right. I'm like, that alone just makes it feel like he is aware of, like, this is intended to be seen in one-hour blocks, and that alone makes it a TV show, not a movie to me.

• 24:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I also think Fire Walk With Me actually does really feel like a movie, even though it has these, like, two parts.

• 24:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 24:54Speaker 05

  But that feels much more largely cinematic in form and shape.

• 24:59David Sims?

  Yes, I think, um, I mean, for one, I think, I think the, the whole, is it a movie? You know, it, it becomes this exhausting debate that, where you're kind of like, you know, why are we fighting about this when we could just be talking about it, right? You know, but I initially was very not into the, you know, it's a big, long movie thing, because I was like, that just feels insulting or sort of, uh, you know, disdainful of the television format, which is a great storytelling format.

• 25:28Griffin Newman?

  There's something backhanded to this notion of like, this is so good that it doesn't deserve to be called TV. And I'm like, that's rude to TV, and also, TV has its own power.

• 25:37Speaker 05

  Well, I was gonna say, watching this is making me nostalgic for when TV felt really good, and.

• 25:41David Sims?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 25:42Speaker 05

  I didn't watch this at the time of airing, but I watched what I felt like was the other really big 2017 thing, correct me if I'm wrong, which was The Leftovers, ended that year, which felt to me quite seismic and like, something that has not really been replicated.

• 25:56Griffin Newman?

  What year does Mad Men end?

• 25:58David Sims?

  Mad Men probably ends around then, too. Mad Men ended 2015.

• 26:02Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 26:03David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 26:03Griffin Newman?

  Jesus, Mad Men ended 90 years.

• 26:04David Sims?

  To me, Breaking Bad and The Leftovers, Breaking Bad, to me, is like, kind of the last of the quote-unquote golden age of TV. Not that it ended sooner than Mad Men.

• 26:14Speaker 05

  It was like 2013.

• 26:15David Sims?

  2013 or whatever, but like.

• 26:18David Sims?

  And then like stuff like The Leftovers and Halt and Catch Fire and stuff, which is amazing, feels like somewhat like where it's like, it was a little less ubiquitous. There was more TV at that point. So the zone was more flooded. People weren't talking about like focusing on like a show at a time. During that like real boom time, it really felt like it's like Mad Men. We're all sitting down on Sunday night and watching Mad Men. That doesn't happen anymore at all. Right?

• 26:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:42Griffin Newman?

  But I feel like I cut you off a little bit, but the the whole thing about the way in which he wrote this and shot this, leading, you know, some argument to the idea that it's a little bit more of a movie than TV. I'm like, that's negated by then, how he like packages it. Even if creatively it came out in a burst as sort of like one big thing, rather than being written or shot as intentional episodes.

• 27:08David Sims?

  Right. I was gonna say-

• 27:08Griffin Newman?

  The second he edits them as such.

• 27:10David Sims?

  The only, right, the only argument I eventually sort of understood, uh, that distinguishes it a little bit, right, is that he did kind of make it as this one big chunk and he kind of cut it up later and he, you know, broke a lot of the rules of TV. Uh, we talked about it already, you know, how actors are used, right? Where it's like they might drop in for like one second in an episode. That's crazy. You know, like, so yeah, it's a little different, but I still think, yeah, fundamentally, this is episodic television. We watched it weekly. I watched it weekly. It was a great way to experience it because it's a great way to experience good TV.

• 27:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 27:47David Sims?

  Like, and it's different.

• 27:48Speaker 05

  More shows could benefit from having-

• 27:50David Sims?

  And that's fine.

• 27:51Speaker 05

  A very famous person show up for two minutes and that's that.

• 27:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 27:54David Sims?

  That would be cool.

• 27:55Griffin Newman?

  Rules. Is disclaimer is the Coran show? Is that what it's called?

• 27:58David Sims?

  That's right.

• 27:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. So I was talking to my brother about it, who was very frustrated watching it. I have not watched it.

• 28:03David Sims?

  I've heard, I, I know almost nothing about that show. I've heard a lot of frustration about it, or like sort of gotten waves of, you know, hearing bad vibes.

• 28:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And that's the thing where Coran was like, I kind of think of it more as a six hour movie. I had originally tried to adapt this book as a movie and then it became a TV show, but I really think of it as a movie and I've thought about recutting as a movie, all that sort of stuff, right? And my brother Jamesy's big complaint was he was like, episodes just end and then the next episode starts at the immediate following scene. And it really just feels like he made a six hour movie, put credits-

• 28:35David Sims?

  Which is, I hate that.

• 28:36Griffin Newman?

  At the hour mark, and I'm like, well, that feels sloppier to me of a guy kind of trying to avoid what television is as a format.

• 28:42David Sims?

  And that's the worst thing about the bloated, you know, post-Golden Age streaming era of TV, where these people were like, I want to make this movie, and they're like, no. And they're like, could it just be a bloated television show? And they're like, of course, yes, please, we'd love that, you know, like.

• 28:54Griffin Newman?

  But we talked about in episode eight, that when they like, cut to the Nine Inch Nails performance at like, minute 15, you're like, oh, interesting, they're fucking with the format that I've gotten used to. And then even episode 13 of this has the musical performance, you're waiting for starring Kyle MacLachlan to come up, and then instead, that plays over Big Ed eating like, instant lunch, right?

• 29:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:14Griffin Newman?

  That alone is like, he's owning the medium of, this is being watched in one hour increments, and I'm playing with your expectations of what happens in that one hour, and like, playing with trying to, um, force patterns upon it, and understanding upon it, and all of that, which says to me, it is intended to be watched this way.

• 29:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:34Griffin Newman?

  And I'm like, if Lynch wanted to do a like, 17 hour marathon, 18 hour marathon screening of this show, I'd imagine he'd be like, let me recut it. So it plays 18 hours rather than just, like, as if it were Netflix autoplay.

• 29:48Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:49David Sims?

  Right.

• 29:49Griffin Newman?

  And then I'd be open to that being considered a movie.

• 29:52David Sims?

  Right.

• 29:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:54David Sims?

  I agree.

• 29:55Speaker 05

  Okay, we all agree.

• 29:56Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 29:56David Sims?

  Um, but no, you're, no one's ever gonna, well, I shouldn't say ever, but like, I don't think anyone's really ever gonna sit down and watch this in a movie theater.

• 30:05Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 30:06David Sims?

  So, you know,

• 30:09David Sims?

  can't that kind of be the most important conversation here? Like, even the fucking Made in America thing.

• 30:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:15David Sims?

  The OJ documentary.

• 30:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 30:17David Sims?

  Which was a television show, but was treated as a movie, and released as a movie, and won an Oscar and all that stuff.

• 30:22Griffin Newman?

  But also felt like a breaking point conversationally, where it's like, do we need to redefine the rules?

• 30:26David Sims?

  But that did, screen and cinemas, you could go see it.

• 30:30Griffin Newman?

  And I heard that worked very well as an experience, yes.

• 30:32David Sims?

  So, you know, maybe I should just go fuck myself.

• 30:36Griffin Newman?

  But I think if you were to see an 18 hour screening of this, you'd be like, yeah, it's a weird experience watching 18 episodes of television in a movie theater. It wouldn't feel like I watched an 18 hour movie.

• 30:46David Sims?

  Uh, right. Um, but, okay, Twin Peaks, Ben, do you have anything you want to say before we begin discussing these episodes? Did they hit you any particular way? No. Wow.

• 30:57Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 30:57David Sims?

  All right.

• 31:03Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 31:03David Sims?

  Yes.

• 31:07David Sims?

  Is that the Cine's cow?

• 31:08Griffin Newman?

  The Cine's cow is back.

• 31:09David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 31:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 31:16David Sims?

  Okay.

• 31:16Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 31:21David Sims?

  Wow.

• 31:21Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 31:24David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up while you tell the great listeners about the great stuff on MUBI.

• 31:30Griffin Newman?

  MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what MUBI does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, one of my favorite movies of the year.

• 31:43David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 31:44Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 31:50David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 31:52Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburn, Past and Future Guest.

• 31:54David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest, great friend.

• 31:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 32:00David Sims?

  This movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 32:05Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 32:06David Sims?

  Legends, and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 32:08Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 32:09David Sims?

  Friend of the show, Zach Cherry.

• 32:11Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 32:11David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 32:12Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 32:14David Sims?

  Such a cool movie, one that queer pal McCann, if you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like it obviously has, it was out in theaters this summer and now it's on MUBI.

• 32:24Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays the filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 32:38David Sims?

  At Camp Miasma, yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 32:42Griffin Newman?

  What happens? It's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 32:54David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on MUBI and you can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com/blankcheck. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 33:07Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 33:12David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 33:17Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 33:17David Sims?

  Yes?

• 33:18Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 33:39David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 33:58Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count, if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 34:14David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby-atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation. Written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen to Dracula.

• 34:49Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 34:50David Sims?

  Yes?

• 34:50Griffin Newman?

  Ugh.

• 34:51David Sims?

  Uh-oh.

• 34:52Griffin Newman?

  It's November.

• 34:53David Sims?

  Ah!

• 34:54Griffin Newman?

  And you know what that means, the old stereotype about November.

• 34:57David Sims?

  Turkeys?

• 34:58Griffin Newman?

  One long sprint to the finish line.

• 35:00David Sims?

  Oh, of course.

• 35:01Griffin Newman?

  Packed schedule, questionable food choices, and somehow a social calendar that got way fuller than you planned. And I ain't talking about Sam Fuller. We're not covering him yet in the podcast.

• 35:10David Sims?

  No, though, maybe we should.

• 35:11Griffin Newman?

  We might get there eventually.

• 35:12David Sims?

  I can't remember. Big Red One. You call it the Big Red Podcast.

• 35:15Griffin Newman?

  Listen, when things get complicated, not when life is easy and when you got time for a whole routine, right now, when everything is full and something has to give one scoop, cold water. Every morning before anything else, as I like to say, scoop, there it is.

• 35:29David Sims?

  You do like to say that every morning you text me scoop, there it is. And that means I now know that you had your AG1.

• 35:35Griffin Newman?

  And I'm awake.

• 35:36David Sims?

  Uh, but yeah, you're, I know you're, you're a daily AG1 user and it's basically the, uh, the glue that holds your internal organs together at this point.

• 35:45Griffin Newman?

  It's not just marketing. AG1 Next Gen is backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials, not weekend a study.

• 35:52David Sims?

  Thank you for that.

• 35:53Griffin Newman?

  Four independent studies with key nutrient levels improved within three months of consistent use. This is the thing I like about AG1. They're not resting on their laurels. They constantly work to better themselves.

• 36:05David Sims?

  Yes. AG1, they've got now AG1 Pro.

• 36:09Griffin Newman?

  For the professionals.

• 36:10David Sims?

  Same daily drink now with the performance and recovery layer built in. So you've got five grams of Cre vitalis, a premium German made creatine monohydrate, and one of the most studied compounds in sports science, plus CAH MB for muscle protection and zinc carnosine for gut support.

• 36:28Griffin Newman?

  Thank God.

• 36:28David Sims?

  Next gen is the foundation. Pro adds what your body needs to recover.

• 36:32Griffin Newman?

  You might be having some big meals this November. AG1 is what you need to keep your gut in check. Keep things, as I like to put it, regular.

• 36:40David Sims?

  Yes. So for a limited time, visit drink AG1.com slash check and get a free immune support bundle, including omega three fish oil and vitamin D three plus K two with your first subscription of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drink AG1.com slash check. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Blank Check sent you.

• 37:11David Sims?

  Part nine. This is the chair is the, uh, Is the name of the episode, sort of. They, they, they all have these kinds of pseudo names.

• 37:22Griffin Newman?

  Where did the episode titles come from? Cause this is like my experience of being like-

• 37:26David Sims?

  I mean, they're, they're-

• 37:26Griffin Newman?

  A Simpsons obsessed kid.

• 37:28David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:29Griffin Newman?

  Where the episodes had no title within the episode and then you'd read like the fucking compendium guide and you'd be like, that's what it's called?

• 37:35David Sims?

  Right.

• 37:36Griffin Newman?

  In a pre-DVD like streaming era where you weren't pulling titles?

• 37:39David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 37:40Griffin Newman?

  You know?

• 37:40David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah. Um, they are technically just by letters, by numbers, but they do all have these sort of pseudo subtitles.

• 37:48Griffin Newman?

  But where were those titles, were those only released for the first time on like, okay?

• 37:53David Sims?

  I don't know when they were released.

• 37:53Speaker 05

  TV Guide.

• 37:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. On the, on the fucking disc menus?

• 37:58David Sims?

  Are they on the disc menus? You can tell me.

• 38:00Griffin Newman?

  I think they are. I think it says part nine, this is the chair or whatever, but I feel like on the episodes themselves, it just says part number, right?

• 38:07David Sims?

  It does.

• 38:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 38:08David Sims?

  Um, so in this episode, do you guys want to tell me what happens?

• 38:15Griffin Newman?

  Way to pass the buck, David.

• 38:17David Sims?

  Um.

• 38:17Speaker 05

  Tim Roth is in the mix.

• 38:19David Sims?

  I'm looking, alright, so it's like, we're post-episode eight. Uh, we've got the doppelganger is alive, you know, Mr. C has not died.

• 38:28Speaker 05

  They stitched him up.

• 38:29David Sims?

  Right, he, he gets stitched up by, um, Tim Roth and, uh, Jennifer Jason-Leigh.

• 38:35Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:36David Sims?

  What do we think of, uh, them? Hutch and Chantel? Have we talked about them yet on this, on this, uh, podcast? They're kind of new, right?

• 38:42Speaker 01

  I don't believe so.

• 38:43David Sims?

  Yeah, they, right, they, this is right, this is where they're introduced.

• 38:47Speaker 05

  Well, she mentioned Chantel.

• 38:49David Sims?

  In two, yeah, yeah, episode two, right. You know, it's kind of like getting LeBron James to play pickup basketball with you or whatever. It's like, who's gonna play like two criminal lowlifes for me? It's like, can we just get Tim Roth and Jennifer Jason-Leigh? Right, where it's like, well, yeah, we, they done that a million times. It's like, yeah, but they'll be good. Right?

• 39:06Speaker 05

  And they are.

• 39:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes.

• 39:08David Sims?

  Like, cause a lot of the character actors and the scumbags in this season are these faces you don't really know. Where you're like, wow, that guy has a really cool face and like that, you know, that guy's got crazy hair and I've never seen him before.

• 39:20Griffin Newman?

  But this is kind of shorthand casting where it's not just the look. You're like, oh, I can like carry over and extrapolate from the history of other characters these- People have played.

• 39:28David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 39:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 39:30David Sims?

  Um, but yeah, so they're there and they they're around for, you know, they're for the whole rest of the season, they're sort of popping in and out like this is not like one off.

• 39:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 39:41David Sims?

  The other big thing, I guess.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  It's the text message.

• 39:44David Sims?

  Is the text.

• 39:45Griffin Newman?

  Patrick Fisher kind of activating.

• 39:47David Sims?

  Right. Dinner table. The conversation is lively.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Mr. C sends this text message.

• 39:52David Sims?

  All right.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  We're we're seeing that they're connected in some way.

• 39:56David Sims?

  And then, right, Dougie has thwarted the attack.

• 39:59Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 40:00David Sims?

  Right. The from the crazy assassin.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  And the use his proper name.

• 40:05David Sims?

  Ike the Spike.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 40:06Griffin Newman?

  They're they're doing their ensuing investigation, Keckner and Eric Edelstein and the third guy. Uh, where they discover that Dougie has no history before like 1997.

• 40:19David Sims?

  Right. Um, he basically seems to have been invented out of whole cloth in 1997 and.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  These brothers seem like they have fun.

• 40:29Speaker 05

  Oh, totally.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  I kind of like, I'm an only child and this I was like, man, I wish I had some goofy brothers.

• 40:35David Sims?

  Wait, which brothers are you talking about?

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Keckner.

• 40:38David Sims?

  Right, right. And, uh, what's his name? Um, you know.

• 40:42Griffin Newman?

  Eric Edelstein.

• 40:42David Sims?

  Eric Edelstein and then Larry Clark is around there too, right? He's the other one.

• 40:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, not kids Larry Clark.

• 40:48David Sims?

  No.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Thank you for clarifying.

• 40:50David Sims?

  Eric Edelstein, what do I know him best from?

• 40:54Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Green Room?

• 40:57David Sims?

  Yeah, I like Green Room. I forgot he's in that, though.

• 40:59Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 41:00David Sims?

  Uh, he's in Jurassic World. Okay, he must get like.

• 41:03Griffin Newman?

  Gets eaten.

• 41:04David Sims?

  Yeah. Like Raptor or something.

• 41:05Griffin Newman?

  I believe that's exactly what happened. Maybe he gets eaten by the.

• 41:07David Sims?

  I nailed it.

• 41:08Griffin Newman?

  I Rex.

• 41:09David Sims?

  I guess he's just done a he's a comedian guy? Who is this? I just know this face.

• 41:14Griffin Newman?

  Been on Doughboys several times.

• 41:16David Sims?

  Wow.

• 41:16Griffin Newman?

  He's a great Doughboys guest.

• 41:17David Sims?

  Right, that's right. Okay, I knew I knew the name.

• 41:19Griffin Newman?

  Uh, he's been in Jurassic World.

• 41:21David Sims?

  Okay.

• 41:22Griffin Newman?

  Uh, he's the voice of one of the Wee Bear Bears. I think he's also now Daddy Shark on the Baby Shark Cartoon Show.

• 41:29David Sims?

  There's a Baby Shark.

• 41:29Speaker 05

  Oh, I thought you were saying Shark Tank. I was like, I didn't know there was a parent. He's all he's Mark Cuban's dad.

• 41:35Griffin Newman?

  They'll they'll be.

• 41:38Griffin Newman?

  They'll be negotiating, they'll be negotiating a deal and then I'll cut to a giant cartoon shark in a tank going, "I approve."

• 41:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, they should have that.

• 41:46Griffin Newman?

  He's like the banker on Deal or No Deal.

• 41:48Speaker 05

  Yeah. I have a new business opportunity, but I don't know if I'm ready to.

• 41:52Griffin Newman?

  That was the panic that set into your eyes when I told you there was a Baby Shark cartoon show.

• 41:55David Sims?

  What's your business opportunity?

• 41:57Speaker 05

  I don't want someone to steal it. People, listeners have to promise not to take it.

• 42:01Griffin Newman?

  You're saving it for the sharks.

• 42:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, maybe I'll save it for the sharks. It is really good, though.

• 42:05David Sims?

  Is it really?

• 42:06Griffin Newman?

  What, okay, if we-

• 42:06Speaker 05

  Don't you think there's-

• 42:07Griffin Newman?

  If all of our listeners promise not to steal it.

• 42:10David Sims?

  Copyright Fran Hoepfner, okay.

• 42:11Speaker 05

  Okay. Phil and I came up with this together. There should be artisanal slime for adults. And it, and it should be like how adult flavors are now like Yuzu, Huckleberry.

• 42:24Griffin Newman?

  So you're saying high-end scents?

• 42:27Speaker 05

  High-end scents, maybe organic textures.

• 42:29David Sims?

  You say it's made out of organic shit, who cares if it is or isn't? Nobody's checking.

• 42:33Speaker 05

  This is a huge gap in the slime market.

• 42:36David Sims?

  Spoke slime for distracted adults who just want the new version of a fidget spinner or whatever.

• 42:42Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, it's like how we-

• 42:43Speaker 05

  It has to be elevated.

• 42:44Griffin Newman?

  We went from fidget toys to like more mature fidget toys so adults didn't feel embarrassed to be using fidget toys. We need the slime equivalent of that, basically, is what.

• 42:52David Sims?

  That feels like something TikTok would show me ads for. And I would be like, why the fuck am I on this app?

• 42:58Griffin Newman?

  And then we read an article a year from now and everyone's angry and they're like, Fran made how much off of this?

• 43:02Speaker 05

  It could be good, right?

• 43:03David Sims?

  Fran sold her slime business for that much money to Satan himself?

• 43:07Griffin Newman?

  Penske Media? Wait, they're the same company?

• 43:11David Sims?

  Um, okay, that's a great, that's a great call. We got on that by Eric Edelstein being in the Baby Shark show, which my daughter must never learn about, because we've escaped Baby Shark.

• 43:19Speaker 05

  And you escaped Minions, right?

• 43:21David Sims?

  I haven't yet gotten there. I'm worried that's just so overstimulating.

• 43:28Speaker 05

  I'm just curious that if you don't-

• 43:29David Sims?

  Movies seem very loud and overstimulating to me.

• 43:31Griffin Newman?

  To you or to her?

• 43:32David Sims?

  To me. She hasn't seen them yet. I'm just like, I feel like that's a lot.

• 43:35Speaker 05

  I'm just like, when would a child learn about the Minions if they haven't seen the movie?

• 43:38David Sims?

  The second she sees one, there will be questions. I have no doubt.

• 43:42Griffin Newman?

  How has she like stepped foot in a grocery store without seeing one?

• 43:46David Sims?

  I mean, she hasn't stepped foot in a ton of grocery stores, is I guess the answer.

• 43:50Griffin Newman?

  Must be nice.

• 43:51David Sims?

  I mean, I'm not sending her out to do the weekly shop.

• 43:54Speaker 05

  And why not?

• 43:54David Sims?

  She has to take a shift? I mean, whenever she is in a grocery store.

• 43:57Speaker 05

  Parks love co-op?

• 43:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 43:59David Sims?

  She, I don't belong to the Parks love co-op yet. Who knows? Maybe I will one day. Um, but whenever she goes and wants, she loves it, cause she, you know, she's like, I want that.

• 44:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 44:08David Sims?

  Pointing at, just name an item.

• 44:10Speaker 05

  She's just like us.

• 44:10Griffin Newman?

  Fun and us.

• 44:11David Sims?

  Right, exactly. Like, yeah, banana. But like, I was thinking of maybe showing her Ice Age.

• 44:17Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 44:17David Sims?

  Cause that seems like, that's not, that's a pretty chill movie, right? Like, there's not a lot of apparel.

• 44:22Speaker 05

  Like Wazamo.

• 44:23David Sims?

  Well, I'm not, I'm not talking quality wise. I'm just talking like, it's about a bunch of animals.

• 44:26Griffin Newman?

  No, I'm just saying, I can't speak to the manicness of three, four, five.

• 44:31David Sims?

  But it seems less manic to me than something like, uh, the Minions sort of world.

• 44:35Griffin Newman?

  First one's like rock solid.

• 44:37David Sims?

  The first Ice Age?

• 44:38Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 44:39David Sims?

  Yeah, cause it's, uh, animals with a baby.

• 44:40Griffin Newman?

  It's not profound art, but it is like rock solid family entertainment.

• 44:44Speaker 05

  I forgot they had a baby.

• 44:45Griffin Newman?

  Scratch hits. That's the weird thing. The first one is just like three men and a baby with.

• 44:50David Sims?

  With Leary, uh, Romano and Leguizamo.

• 44:53Griffin Newman?

  Right. And it's like, oh, we don't know what to do here. And then the movies.

• 44:55David Sims?

  Right. And the mammoth's kind of an Eeyore and Leguizamo's kind of like, eh, and Leary is like, geez, these, these guys.

• 45:02Griffin Newman?

  And it's very much about like the uneasy balance between the humans and the animals in this time.

• 45:08David Sims?

  Be funny if he was like, the, the Tabardoo Tiger is just occasionally, he's like, nine 11 was fucked up though. And you're like, it was. Yeah, I completely agree with you Dennis. No, 2002, it had happened.

• 45:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It was fresh.

• 45:17Speaker 05

  Why you just meant during the Ice Age?

• 45:18Griffin Newman?

  Well, Fran is right.

• 45:20David Sims?

  Well, that's true.

• 45:20Speaker 05

  It's not future Ice Age.

• 45:22David Sims?

  No, but maybe he could just kind of break the fourth wall second just to be like, hey.

• 45:24Speaker 05

  He could be like, nine 11 is gonna happen.

• 45:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 45:26Speaker 05

  And it's gonna be bad.

• 45:27David Sims?

  Right. Dennis Leary will be here.

• 45:30Griffin Newman?

  The first one is very much like the uneasy relationship between humans and animals. And it feels like the, the, the Ice Age is coming to an end rapidly. And then the movies were hits and they were like, we're basically gonna ignore that humans exist forever. And every movie is us kicking the can on an, an extension of that. Yes.

• 45:49David Sims?

  We're just keeping it in the Ice Age, baby.

• 45:51Griffin Newman?

  Right. Ice Age, baby.

• 45:52David Sims?

  Um, so, okay, so, uh, you have the fun cops. The, the cops are cute. The, um.

• 45:58Griffin Newman?

  Are they supposed to be brothers?

• 46:00David Sims?

  They are brothers.

• 46:01Griffin Newman?

  They are. Okay.

• 46:02David Sims?

  And we have a sequence right where Andy and Lucy are looking at chairs. Occasional kind of interludes, I think, with them, just maybe out of some respect for the audience that doesn't just want like Las Vegas murderers and like.

• 46:17Griffin Newman?

  This fits for me, but you know, it's Lucy literally just toggling between two color options on a chair. Uh, and then them having a bit of a fight over it.

• 46:26Speaker 05

  I really turned on them in season two.

• 46:28Griffin Newman?

  Interesting. In what way?

• 46:29Speaker 05

  Just that storyline is so drawn out.

• 46:31David Sims?

  The, the kid.

• 46:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, the paternity stuff, Wally. Um, I love Wally.

• 46:37David Sims?

  You love Wally when he came back in The Return?

• 46:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, and was weird, as many characters are in the show. But, uh, yeah, whenever they're sort of on their shit, I'm sort of tuning out. But I know what it's like to try to buy a chair, and it's hard.

• 46:52Griffin Newman?

  I did think it was capturing a very specific, modern phenomenon of endlessly toggling back between two options on a website and not knowing which to pull the trigger on.

• 47:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:05Griffin Newman?

  The analysis paralysis of like.

• 47:08Speaker 05

  So much of this feels like much more engaged with how weird technology is than

• 47:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 47:14Speaker 05

  the original and what we can and can't do with a computer or a phone.

• 47:18Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 47:19Speaker 05

  And sometimes it's just, it's crazy you can do this. Look at two different chairs.

• 47:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:26David Sims?

  It's also like that thing of you write out a word a bunch of times and suddenly it feels like you're spelling the word wrong. Anyway, you know what I'm talking about. Uh, we have a brief check in with Johnny. Um, Johnny Horn. Uh, who has been played by various, you know, actors over the years, is played by a new character here, but is this become this kind of like he's, he's wearing this protective gear and like whatever, you know, he's, his condition has only deteriorated further.

• 47:53Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 47:53David Sims?

  He's running, he runs around, his mom, it's just a weird check in with a character you might have forgotten existed.

• 47:58Speaker 05

  I completely forgot.

• 47:59Griffin Newman?

  I forgot he existed.

• 48:00David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 48:00Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 48:02David Sims?

  Okay, and then we have, uh.

• 48:04Griffin Newman?

  They go to visit, uh, Widow Briggs.

• 48:07David Sims?

  Yes, Bobby, et cetera. Frank and Hawk go to see, uh, um, her name is Betty Briggs, of course. Yeah, to be like, your day, your husband seems to be dead and possibly involved with something.

• 48:20Griffin Newman?

  We found the body.

• 48:21David Sims?

  She gives them.

• 48:22Griffin Newman?

  I saw this in a dream. I was told someday you'd come to speak to me.

• 48:25David Sims?

  Right, right, right.

• 48:26Griffin Newman?

  And then gives them.

• 48:27David Sims?

  Classic Briggs shit.

• 48:27Griffin Newman?

  This cylinder. Hidden in the back of a chair.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  It's so cool. I kinda wish I had secrets I could hide for people to eventually discover.

• 48:37Griffin Newman?

  Do that. That's within your power. You could do that right now.

• 48:41David Sims?

  You could even leave messages in this podcast.

• 48:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 48:44David Sims?

  For future, like, people to try and understand.

• 48:48Griffin Newman?

  You can foretell things.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  It wasn't me.

• 48:53Griffin Newman?

  That's really smart.

• 48:54David Sims?

  I'm gonna go buy a Shaggy record.

• 48:55Griffin Newman?

  That's gonna absolve him of everything. He said it on the record. Now they can't pin anything on him.

• 49:01David Sims?

  It would just be funny. I mean, you're literally someone who buries things canonically.

• 49:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 49:05David Sims?

  True. So like, people would start to be like, did Ben bury something else? And like, we haven't found it yet? And like, if I analyze everything he ever said, will I, you know, figure out what it is?

• 49:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  I definitely didn't do any kind of burial in California.

• 49:19Griffin Newman?

  Well.

• 49:19David Sims?

  Okay, alright. That's one clue.

• 49:21Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 49:22David Sims?

  State of California.

• 49:39David Sims?

  Uh, so, and what's, and right, the big twist, of course, is that Diane gets the creepy text message.

• 49:46Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:48David Sims?

  Yeah, we do also, right, we have the, that, that is where Jerry is talking to his foot still.

• 49:53Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:54David Sims?

  This is sort of in, in, this episode doesn't have a lot of action, I feel like. It's mostly, uh, spooling things up again, right?

• 50:02Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  I think it's important to point out that William Hastings is revealed to be an alternate dimension blogger.

• 50:12Speaker 05

  Blogger review.

• 50:13David Sims?

  That's the thing. We have the sort of the resolution, to some extent, of William Hastings, who is the Matthew Lillard character.

• 50:19Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:20David Sims?

  Uh, who is, who dies during this, uh,

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Set of episodes.

• 50:26David Sims?

  That we're talking about. His head do explode.

• 50:29Speaker 05

  I was so happy to see him come back.

• 50:30David Sims?

  You were happy to see him come back?

• 50:31Speaker 05

  So dismayed, yeah, because I thought we were done. Done with Lillard.

• 50:34Griffin Newman?

  I think he's so fucked. Fucking good.

• 50:36Speaker 05

  He delights me.

• 50:37Griffin Newman?

  I'm just always so happy to see him pop up.

• 50:39David Sims?

  So this is where he's being interrogated and he's right, basically like, yeah, look, man, I'm a blogger. There's weird shit going on. I didn't know what was, you know, when I was opening up here.

• 50:48Speaker 05

  It was funny that it's like, yes, we were having an affair because of my blog.

• 50:52David Sims?

  Right.

• 50:52Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 50:53Speaker 05

  Which doesn't really happen anymore, I feel.

• 50:55David Sims?

  You don't think there's blog affairs?

• 50:57Speaker 05

  Not as, not with the gutting of media in our modern, in our modern day.

• 51:01Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:02Speaker 05

  This is what they took from us.

• 51:03David Sims?

  Um, but right, but they, right, they are the string leading to Briggs. That's basically their purpose in the overall story.

• 51:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 51:11David Sims?

  That they kind of encountered the major in some way when they were investigating the zone, right? This like alternate dimension that he vanished into.

• 51:21Griffin Newman?

  I read a really good, uh, profile on Lillard recently. I know we talked about him a lot in the first chunk of episodes on Return.

• 51:29David Sims?

  Uh-huh.

• 51:30Griffin Newman?

  Um, and I was saying like my confusion about how it felt like he had this early 2010s. Like he's starting to get back out there in interesting supporting parts and then it didn't totally stick. And then now it feels like it is weirdly sticking post Five Nights at Freddy's.

• 51:44David Sims?

  Right, he's in that.

• 51:45Griffin Newman?

  He's hot again.

• 51:46Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:47David Sims?

  Ken?

• 51:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but I'm, but I'm like after Descendants, like hearing people loved him on this. There was the one where he was in like trouble with the curve and like he was in a couple other things where you're like, are people starting to value Lillard again? And he basically said that in the early 2010s, he like hit a wall, was like really cynical and angry about like that his movie star status had not maintained. And was in that position that a lot of people get him where they're like, I'm so desperate to hold into being, hold on to being number one on the call sheet, that I hold on to that increasingly worse and worse projects. Where he's in like the direct to video Nims Island sequel and shit. And then he like called his reps and was like, I'm gonna downscale, I'm gonna sell my house, I'm gonna move into a smaller home.

• 52:33Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna like change my lifestyle. I want to be an actor. Your job is to find me good parts to do. I don't care about my status. I wanna like reengage with what I like about acting.

• 52:44David Sims?

  Okay, but do you know who the star of Return to Nims Island was?

• 52:47Griffin Newman?

  Isn't it Steve Irwin's daughter?

• 52:49Speaker 05

  What the hell is Nims Island? Is this like Rats of Nims?

• 52:51Griffin Newman?

  Exact, this is the fucking direct to video sequel on a movie you don't even remember existed, the original.

• 52:57David Sims?

  The original was a 2008 children's adventure starring Abigail Breslin and Jodie Foster.

• 53:02Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:02David Sims?

  Called Nims Island.

• 53:03Griffin Newman?

  And Gerard Butler.

• 53:05David Sims?

  Uh, Jerry Butler's in it. Is he the villain or is he a dad?

• 53:08Speaker 05

  Nim's Island?

• 53:09Griffin Newman?

  I, I think Nim's Island is a weird kind of like children's romancing the stone thing where she is a author who writes adventure books, but then she gets caught in a real adventure and Gerard Butler is the projection of her fictional character. Like he's like a fake Indiana Jones.

• 53:26David Sims?

  Well, I'm not gonna check.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  I'm getting Peanut's kind of parents sound.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  It's weird.

• 53:32Griffin Newman?

  What I'm saying is that like only seven years before this, Matthew Lillard was doing that.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:37David Sims?

  But now he's doing good. I hope he's doing good. I mean, I only want happiness for him, right? He's not like a, he hasn't done something.

• 53:43Griffin Newman?

  He seems like a lovely guy.

• 53:44David Sims?

  Right. It's not like he has like a big crypto position that I don't know about, right? Like.

• 53:47Griffin Newman?

  No, no, this piece was really good. I love his work, but he was just sort of like talking about the feeling of like, I'll make this a, a short sidebar.

• 53:56David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 53:57Griffin Newman?

  But like Freddie Prince Jr. has also complained about this. Sir Michelle Geller has also complained about this. The first Scooby Doo movie was so fucking big. Was one of the most successful movies Warner Brothers had had up until that point.

• 54:09David Sims?

  It's a movie you love to talk about.

• 54:10Griffin Newman?

  And then they immediately greenlit a sequel and then went to the cast and was like, fuck you. And they tried to cut everyone's salary.

• 54:18David Sims?

  Whoa, sure.

• 54:19Griffin Newman?

  They told Freddie Prince to take like a major pay cut. Like everyone was sort of like, why are you treating us like shit? You seem to have some resentment for a hit movie and then they dumped the sequel in March. And it didn't totally bomb, but it certainly was like way off from the first one. And then we're like, weird, this didn't work. I guess you guys are old news and kind of blame the failure on all of them.

• 54:42David Sims?

  But like.

• 54:43Griffin Newman?

  And Matthew Lillard was like, that kind of like broke all of us.

• 54:46David Sims?

  It did.

• 54:47Griffin Newman?

  That we like had a hit where we were like, oh, I guess we're all gonna keep doing Scooby movies and that will be able to like bankroll our weirder projects on the side. And immediately Warner Brothers was like seeing. And weirdly resentful of us.

• 55:00David Sims?

  But they were kind of over. Right? That's sort of the funny thing to think like, not, not so much Lillard. Cause Lillard's like, you know, you can always use a Lillard. You could use him in Twin Peaks The Return. You could use him anywhere, right?

• 55:13Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 55:13David Sims?

  But like Freddie Prinze by 2004, 2005, it's kind of like, yeah, no, you're not gonna make the leap, buddy. Right? You know, you're, you're.

• 55:20Griffin Newman?

  The one and he had a similar thing to Lillard where then he like hard pivoted to voiceover for a while. And now he started like acting on camera again, but like the grudge is the same year as Scooby Doo two?

• 55:32David Sims?

  Uh, The Grudge with Sherri Michelle Geller is of course, have you seen The Grudge, Fran? Scary.

• 55:38Speaker 05

  No.

• 55:39David Sims?

  Uh, the same year, 2004.

• 55:40Speaker 05

  Scary. This show's scary.

• 55:43David Sims?

  Yeah, this show's scary. How are you?

• 55:46Speaker 05

  Both.

• 55:47David Sims?

  You don't love scary things, although I know you've gotten much braver in your, in recent years. You used to be, when I first met you and we first became friends, you were not brave.

• 55:55Speaker 05

  No.

• 55:56David Sims?

  Like, and you had not really seen a lot of horror or mega sort of violent scary things.

• 56:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:02David Sims?

  Right? You would mostly avoid it.

• 56:03Speaker 05

  Yeah. I'm braver. Um, how is this? Uh, it's yucky. I wish I sort of agreed with the sort of central violent conceit that if someone's head goes sort of squish and crunch. It's like, maybe funny or something.

• 56:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 56:20Speaker 05

  Uh, mostly I'm just like, ew, every time, but, um.

• 56:23Griffin Newman?

  You're, you're talking specifically with Lillard mode or sort of the recurring?

• 56:27Speaker 05

  The recur, I feel like the recurring head violence in episode eight.

• 56:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 56:31Speaker 05

  Sort of in that, it's the first episode where the two in the lab get all maimed and fucked up.

• 56:37David Sims?

  Yeah, with the, with the cube.

• 56:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, the sort of like similar types of violence in this sort of wear me down. Don't scare me so much, but I do think this show in general is quite unnerving.

• 56:48Griffin Newman?

  I, I am.

• 56:49David Sims?

  And it's also very, uh, just bleak in the energy and sort of, you know, even the, even when it's being funny. It's just like when you're visiting with Twin Peaks again and you're happy to see your friends. There's also just this mood in the town that's really like sedate.

• 57:04Speaker 05

  Well, the woman honking.

• 57:05David Sims?

  And then things like that happen where you're like, you're.

• 57:08Griffin Newman?

  That's like an ecstatic moment.

• 57:09Speaker 05

  Get me out of here.

• 57:10Griffin Newman?

  Right. Yeah.

• 57:10David Sims?

  But wait.

• 57:11Griffin Newman?

  Nails on track.

• 57:11David Sims?

  What were you gonna say?

• 57:12Griffin Newman?

  No, no, I am starting, it is starting to get to me, living in Lynch World for months. And this isn't the first time I've said this.

• 57:19David Sims?

  Look, we're pivoting out soon.

• 57:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, we're going on to Penny Marshall next, and that's gonna be.

• 57:22David Sims?

  We're not.

• 57:23Speaker 05

  Oh, that'd be so fun.

• 57:24David Sims?

  We're not.

• 57:25Griffin Newman?

  You're calling me a liar on this?

• 57:27Speaker 05

  That's such a good idea.

• 57:28David Sims?

  We will do Penny Marshall on this show one day.

• 57:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, we'll do it one day, and that day is January 22nd.

• 57:34David Sims?

  No. But we are pivoting to, you know, more straightforwardly accessible work.

• 57:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, we're offering our listeners.

• 57:44David Sims?

  It's not all comedies or whatever.

• 57:45Griffin Newman?

  A penny for their thoughts, if you will. Winky, winky.

• 57:50David Sims?

  Uh, so, okay, so yeah, Jerry sees his foot, it's not his, but yes, I guess.

• 57:53Speaker 05

  I love David Patrick Kelly.

• 57:55David Sims?

  Uh, talk about him.

• 57:56Speaker 05

  I, well, I grew up watching The Warriors.

• 57:58David Sims?

  Yes, David Patrick Kelly, of course, plays Jerry Horn, a sort of lesser character, but he is Luther in The Warriors.

• 58:05Griffin Newman?

  What the fuck?

• 58:05Speaker 05

  Warriors come out and play.

• 58:07Griffin Newman?

  He's the bottle guy.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Dude, I never realized that until this very moment. That's crazy.

• 58:12Speaker 05

  I like locked into season one, because I was like, Warriors.

• 58:14Griffin Newman?

  He's got an incredibly distinctive face, and yet he's able to change his appearance around it a lot. And every time I see him in something, I'm like, that is him.

• 58:23Speaker 05

  It's the voice. I always.

• 58:24Griffin Newman?

  It's the voice.

• 58:24Speaker 05

  Um, I was lucky enough to see him in the, like, recent Into the Woods.

• 58:29Griffin Newman?

  Who he played?

• 58:30Speaker 05

  The narrator, or what's.

• 58:31Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 58:31Speaker 05

  Um, and I, and that was another one where like halfway through, I was like, wait a minute.

• 58:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes, he's always a wait a minute guy for me.

• 58:37Speaker 05

  And I love him. I wish there was a little more of him in this.

• 58:41Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  You excited for The Warriors musical?

• 58:44Griffin Newman?

  It's a concept album.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Oh, it's a concept album?

• 58:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 58:47David Sims?

  I think it'll, I mean.

• 58:49Speaker 05

  I'm curious about it.

• 58:50David Sims?

  For anyone, including friends of the show, right? I think that it could become a musical.

• 58:54Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 58:55David Sims?

  Right?

• 58:55Griffin Newman?

  For the time being, it's a concept album.

• 58:56David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 58:57Speaker 05

  I feel like, I mean, I don't want to give Hollywood any more ideas for free, but I was always surprised that Warriors wasn't something that. Sort of ballooned into, I know that's like, there's the movie and there's like the video game.

• 59:09Griffin Newman?

  That was the moment where it felt like, are they gonna try to explode this as a cult thing?

• 59:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:14Griffin Newman?

  And then I, cause it was also like Rockstar being like, were, basically their blank check, it felt like of using the Grand Theft Auto cachet to be like, this is our dream project?

• 59:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:24Griffin Newman?

  And it felt like the game did not expla- am I wrong about this, David?

• 59:28David Sims?

  Uh, I, no, you're not wrong. And it, not beyond that, it was kind of a logical thing, right?

• 59:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 59:33David Sims?

  If you're looking for, like, it makes so much, what surprises me is that it's never been remade. I know there's been-

• 59:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:41David Sims?

  Uh, you know, discussions of a possible remake.

• 59:44Griffin Newman?

  Many.

• 59:45David Sims?

  Tony Scott, I know, wanted to do one or whatever, but like, it's-

• 59:48Griffin Newman?

  David Ayer said he was gonna do-

• 59:50David Sims?

  I think Neville Dean and Taylor at one point were, or one of those two-

• 59:54Griffin Newman?

  The thing that kept on coming out about the versions that those people were working on was that the twist was to make it more grounded.

• 1:00:00David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:00:01Griffin Newman?

  And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? That they were like, well, we want to treat it like real gangs, none of the cartoony shit. And I'm like, who gives a shit?

• 1:00:09Speaker 05

  No, they should all be in silly stuff.

• 1:00:11Griffin Newman?

  They should get sillier.

• 1:00:12Speaker 05

  It should feel, I mean, I think that movie is good because it feels like a video game.

• 1:00:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:00:16Speaker 05

  To some, it's like, now you're in this level, now you're in that level. And that's a structure in movies I think we've run away from a little bit.

• 1:00:23Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:00:23Speaker 05

  But it's effective and it's fun.

• 1:00:26Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:00:27David Sims?

  I don't know. I, it's one of those things where I'm like, nah, don't, don't try to straight remake it. Something like what Lynn is doing is more probably-

• 1:00:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:33David Sims?

  A cool way to comment it from a new, you know, approach or whatever, or video game. One day someone will make a great subway video game.

• 1:00:43Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:00:43David Sims?

  Obviously, you've got stuff like Streets of Rage or whatever, where there's like a sub- subway level.

• 1:00:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:48David Sims?

  You're battling through, but like-

• 1:00:49Speaker 05

  You mean an action-driven one versus like you're running the MTA?

• 1:00:53David Sims?

  Well, that sounds fun too.

• 1:00:54Speaker 05

  MTA management.

• 1:00:55David Sims?

  Those kinds of things exist where it's like, would you like to painstakingly pretend to like drive a subway car? Yeah, you can do that.

• 1:01:01Griffin Newman?

  Right, that game is called Your Dreams?

• 1:01:03David Sims?

  But like, like some sort of open-worldy game that's set in a subway system, right?

• 1:01:08Griffin Newman?

  Sure, like a virtual sandwich, sandwich artist simulator kind of game.

• 1:01:11David Sims?

  Kind of a cool idea, right? Someone get on that.

• 1:01:13Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:01:14David Sims?

  I mean, it's cool in video games when there is a subway system. Like Grand Theft Auto, I think when it had the New York set games especially, they would have a subway that you could like use. But it's more like a sort of them being like, yeah, look, we have everything.

• 1:01:28Griffin Newman?

  Right, yeah, exactly.

• 1:01:29David Sims?

  Yeah. Like in Alien Isolation, there's a big subway system-ish like between the space stations like parts. It's always cool to get on the subway.

• 1:01:38Griffin Newman?

  This episode ends with a Sky Ferrer scratching her arm.

• 1:01:41Speaker 05

  I was about to say.

• 1:01:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Speaker 05

  She'll do this, but she won't put out a new album?

• 1:01:45Griffin Newman?

  Well, I mean, come on.

• 1:01:47Speaker 05

  Sort of pandering. Pandering with a joke like that.

• 1:01:49Griffin Newman?

  You're not afraid to say it?

• 1:01:51David Sims?

  Uh, wait, wait.

• 1:01:51Speaker 05

  I'm ready for the new music. What?

• 1:01:53David Sims?

  Wait, it's this episode?

• 1:01:54Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah, cuz I wrote Sky Ferrer in all caps, question mark.

• 1:01:57Griffin Newman?

  Scratch him.

• 1:01:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:02:00David Sims?

  Yes. There's, I feel, is there something else in this episode that we're not referencing? I don't know.

• 1:02:05Griffin Newman?

  We've scrapped her again.

• 1:02:06Speaker 05

  I like when Gordon and Diane have a cigarette.

• 1:02:09David Sims?

  Yes, you know, so you're right, but we have this kind of inkling that Diane is not on the level.

• 1:02:16Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 1:02:17David Sims?

  And is somewhat connected, right, to these unsavory elements in Vegas and all that, but we don't really know what's going on yet, right?

• 1:02:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:02:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:02:24David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  I guess, do we wanna talk about the thing in the chair, Bobby smashing it?

• 1:02:32Griffin Newman?

  The cylinder.

• 1:02:33David Sims?

  Yeah, the cylinder.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  And it referencing, uh, Jack Rabbit's palace.

• 1:02:38David Sims?

  Palace.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  And...

• 1:02:39Griffin Newman?

  Oh, right, it has the slips of paper in it?

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yep, that's all important little details.

• 1:02:44David Sims?

  Right, which is like a place that he and his dad would talk about, like this kind of made up place, right?

• 1:02:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, the Jacks.

• 1:02:50David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:51Griffin Newman?

  I am very much watching this trying not to put, uh, more or less importance on any element that is introduced to me, you know? Like, I don't know if it's just the way I've now trained my brain to process this. But I feel like I'm now veering wildly in the opposite direction of maybe how people watched it at the time, where I'm like, I think if I'm trying to look for specific answers or clean resolutions to things, it will frustrate me. So I'm just taking every scene as it is.

• 1:03:22David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, no, that's fine.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Especially after the last episode.

• 1:03:25David Sims?

  I think the way you watch The Return, especially the first time around, is to do exactly that. And then later, right, if you want to be like, you know, let me cast my brain back or let me sift through things and be like, oh, I guess that did connect to that and that and it did sort of resolve. Like, there are things that kind of resolve.

• 1:03:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:41David Sims?

  Or things that are explanatory in the background, that, yeah, they do pay off. It's not like this is a show that just throws a bunch of info out there and it's like, anyway, life's meaningless, but then it is kind of a show that does that.

• 1:03:53Speaker 05

  But I also think if you're like looking at all the numbers on those little pieces of paper in the cylinder, you're not gonna find anything, you know, satisfying. It's not like, it's not like the Lost stuff where there'd always be some new numbers to like punch into, like, you can't do that.

• 1:04:08Griffin Newman?

  The two shows I just keep kind of like comparing this to in my own experience of being someone who is actively watching and engaged in the fucking feedback of it at the time and all of that shit, there's like the Lost thing where it's like, this is solvable.

• 1:04:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:04:22Griffin Newman?

  Right? There are like seeding clues and maybe not all of this is gonna work, but like anything they're putting in is towards some like fixed end.

• 1:04:31David Sims?

  But God bless, that was wrong.

• 1:04:32Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 1:04:32David Sims?

  I mean, the thing about Lost that I love Lost, but right, they would have things like there would be the, the map, uh, the, that had been drawn on the la, on the, uh, you know, in the station, like there was this.

• 1:04:43Griffin Newman?

  In the hatch, yeah.

• 1:04:44David Sims?

  In the hatch, right?

• 1:04:45Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:04:45David Sims?

  That had all this, right, like writing on it and people were like, what does this mean? What is it? And then it turns out they were kind of like, yeah, I mean, there's like three things in there that we'd thought about and then there's a bunch of other shit where we were like, eh, that sort of has the, the vibe of the kind of mysteries we've been doing and maybe we fill it in or maybe we don't.

• 1:05:00Speaker 05

  Well, and everyone I know who goes back to watch Lost is like, it's so much more fun to watch when you're not doing all the like interior math and just letting it wash over you.

• 1:05:09Griffin Newman?

  But I also, like, I think about Mad Men and the experience of watching that show and that having long gaps between seasons and it being a show that felt very elusive. And like the level of theorizing of shit where people were like, I think I solved it. Like, um, what's her name? Jessica Perre, uh, her character.

• 1:05:27David Sims?

  Uh, of course, Megan.

• 1:05:29Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:05:29David Sims?

  Megan, uh, uh, well, Draper, but Calvert, there we go.

• 1:05:33Griffin Newman?

  Was wearing a shirt that famously.

• 1:05:36David Sims?

  Yeah, people thought, is she gonna be Sharon Tate? Right? The Sharon Tate war, yes.

• 1:05:40Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then they were like, and this with the Beatles and it's helter skelter. So are they trying to tell us that she's gonna get murdered? Or like, a season would end with something like, oh, the foundation of the new agency, the like Sterling Cooper, Draper Price.

• 1:05:52David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:05:52Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, wow, so the next season's gonna be all they're doing it their way. And then two episodes in, like Draper torpedoes the whole thing.

• 1:05:59David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:05:59Griffin Newman?

  Anytime you tried to game out where that show was going, the show was like, we're not interested. Just didn't miss shit.

• 1:06:03David Sims?

  No, I mean, my favorite thing about Mad Men, right, is that people keep being like, who I need for my new firm, or my spinoff is Don Draper, and then they hire him and he's like, so I just like go to the movies all day and I'm constantly drunk.

• 1:06:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:15David Sims?

  And I'm not very nice to work with. They're like, what the fuck? And he's like, I've always been like this.

• 1:06:20Griffin Newman?

  And these like cycles repeat themselves and things that feel like meaningless elements become huge and things that feel like they're huge tee ups for the future of the show immediately are abandoned.

• 1:06:29David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:30Griffin Newman?

  In a way that feels like accurate to life to me.

• 1:06:32David Sims?

  I had a friend who was convinced that the opening credits of Mad Men of a man falling, you know, were like, they're like, that's the end of the show. Don will kill himself.

• 1:06:41Griffin Newman?

  So many people had that prediction.

• 1:06:43David Sims?

  And I was like, I don't think so, man. I don't think that was what they were. I think they were just kind of going for a vibe with whatever graphics guy they got, you know?

• 1:06:50Griffin Newman?

  That is like the post-loss shit. And then I think more and more shows are trying to do that, right? In the wake of loss. And I think like Twin Peaks starts that to a certain extent. But the success of loss to be able to sustain that for a way, and to a certain degree, it's like broken people's brains.

• 1:07:06Speaker 05

  Yeah. Well, I think Breaking Bad had that kind of puzzly stuff.

• 1:07:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:07:10Speaker 05

  Too. And maybe Saul, but I never watched Saul, where that feels more inherently baked into the structure is that there's some like puzzle or mystery.

• 1:07:18David Sims?

  But Saul, right, had promise of that, but it turned out Saul was kind of doing a different thing. It had the.

• 1:07:25Speaker 05

  Whereas I never got the sense that Mad Men actually had.

• 1:07:27David Sims?

  No, it didn't. But it's what Griffin's saying. At the time, people's radars were kind of up more.

• 1:07:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:07:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:07:37Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:07:37David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:07:38Griffin Newman?

  Uh, uh, who are you wearing?

• 1:07:40David Sims?

  Uh, who am I wearing?

• 1:07:41Griffin Newman?

  I'm doing like an impression of a red carpet correspondent, asking who you're wearing right now.

• 1:07:45David Sims?

  Well, I am wearing Quince.

• 1:07:48Griffin Newman?

  Well, well, well, what a Quince, Quince, Quincy dense.

• 1:07:52David Sims?

  It's a Mongolian cashmere zip sweater.

• 1:07:56Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:07:57David Sims?

  It's a sort of a brown. Would you agree?

• 1:07:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's like maybe like a, what would it, a chocolate?

• 1:08:02David Sims?

  Sure. I have been seated next to people wearing this item of clothing and they have brushed against me, not to brag, and gone like, so soft.

• 1:08:09Griffin Newman?

  Oh, a soft boy. But listen, the best pieces in your closet are the ones that you can count on, whether you're heading to work, going out, or keeping things casual. And this time of year, Quince makes finding something great for everyone else just as easy. This holiday season, it's where I'm shopping for myself and everyone on my list.

• 1:08:26David Sims?

  Quince does rock. It's got high quality staples made with these premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere. 14 karat gold? Italian leather?

• 1:08:37Griffin Newman?

  Mamma mia!

• 1:08:38David Sims?

  All timeless, versatile pieces that feel special to unwrap and become everyday favorites long after the holidays. These cashmere sweaters, like the one I'm wearing, start at just $60. Lineup doesn't stop there. You've got premium down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories, everything you and your loved ones need to stay warm and look good together all season long.

• 1:08:58Griffin Newman?

  And everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen so you can give luxury quality pieces without the luxury price tag.

• 1:09:11David Sims?

  Um, so yeah, obviously I'm wearing Quince sweater right now. I've got Quince bedding at home. Ooh, they've got Christmas stockings!

• 1:09:18Griffin Newman?

  Oh, well, well, well!

• 1:09:19David Sims?

  They got tree skirts! They got garlands! If you want to go Christmas mode.

• 1:09:23Griffin Newman?

  Your tree deserves to be dressed in Quince as well. And when it comes to gifting, Quince has a lot more than clothing. Think fine jewelry, leather bags, the aforementioned hotel-quality bedding, chef-grade cookware, and five-star luggage. Basically, plenty of ways to find something special for everyone on your list. If you want to give the gift of quality this holiday season, download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, that's a year, now available in Canada and the UK too! Ding dong! And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Blank Check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:10:39Griffin Newman?

  Casino.

• 1:10:43Griffin Newman?

  Episode 10.

• 1:10:44David Sims?

  Uh, so we got Richard being insane. Richard, sorry to spoil Horn. Uh, right. Harassing, uh, Miriam, who's the woman who saw him, uh, commit murder.

• 1:10:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I'd say it goes beyond harassing.

• 1:10:56David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, being very, very, very scary. Uh, Richard, probably the, the most evil character in Twin Peaks. Thoughts Fran?

• 1:11:02Speaker 05

  I agree.

• 1:11:03Griffin Newman?

  I, I, uh, I looked up this actor the other day. I don't think I've seen him in anything.

• 1:11:07Speaker 05

  He looked really familiar to me though, but I can't place him.

• 1:11:10David Sims?

  Wait, which actor? Uh?

• 1:11:12Griffin Newman?

  Richard. Who plays Richard?

• 1:11:13Speaker 05

  Aman.

• 1:11:13David Sims?

  Uh, okay. So the, the actor's name is Aman Farren.

• 1:11:16Griffin Newman?

  He's an Australian actor?

• 1:11:17David Sims?

  Yeah. He, I mean, he's also in Jennifer Lynch's movie Chained, which I've never seen, but maybe that's the connection here. I don't know, like where they really found this guy. He has the most amazing face in the world.

• 1:11:30Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, it's one of these things where like, um.

• 1:11:33David Sims?

  He's in The Witcher, but I feel like none of you guys watched The Witcher.

• 1:11:35Speaker 05

  I watched The Witcher, but I couldn't.

• 1:11:36David Sims?

  Okay, well, he's in it.

• 1:11:37Speaker 05

  I can't place him in that either.

• 1:11:39David Sims?

  Okay. Uh, he's the guy who's like.

• 1:11:42Griffin Newman?

  A huge piece of shit?

• 1:11:43David Sims?

  Yeah, evil army guy. Yeah, he's, he's not a good character.

• 1:11:46Speaker 05

  Oh, actually, maybe I do know who this is in Witcher.

• 1:11:48David Sims?

  A face like that, I think you're just rarely gonna be cast as like Jim Nice Man.

• 1:11:52Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 1:11:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. Well, he reminds me of the eye patch brother on House of Dragon a little bit, who also has such a great face. Who is called Aman in that show.

• 1:12:01David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:12:01Speaker 05

  But not in life.

• 1:12:02David Sims?

  I didn't watch season two of that show because I know it involves so much like baby murder and I was like, I'm not ready for this right now.

• 1:12:08Speaker 05

  That's fine. I will tell you, that's a season of TV I finished watching, say in like the last weekend of July of this year.

• 1:12:15David Sims?

  Gone.

• 1:12:15Speaker 05

  It's, I can't tell you a single thing that happened this season or how it ended. So maybe don't.

• 1:12:21David Sims?

  Yeah, maybe I won't. I don't know.

• 1:12:23Speaker 05

  Oh, but you know, oh, you know who I remember? Simon Russell Beal.

• 1:12:26David Sims?

  Yeah, love him.

• 1:12:27Speaker 05

  Well, he's in the mix.

• 1:12:28David Sims?

  Yeah, no, I know. He's right. He's wearing robes and stuff. Amazing he hadn't made it to Thrones until then. Wait, Griffin, what do you want to say?

• 1:12:33Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, he has such an inherently evil face and I don't want to make this sound like a statement about the actor. And I admittedly haven't seen him in other stuff, right? But like Frank Silva. You know, all the stories of Lynch just seeing him on set and being like, wait a second, if you made this face and your look is so specific and whatever.

• 1:12:51David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:12:51Griffin Newman?

  And he's doing kind of like a scary haunted house like, ah! And you're like, yeah, I get it within the language of it. If that guy does that, it reads as like scary evil, right?

• 1:13:01David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:13:01Griffin Newman?

  But it feels like he's kind of playing like scary evil in quotes, which makes sense, because he's like more of a force than he is.

• 1:13:07David Sims?

  He's a ghost or whatever. Right. He's not, right. Whereas, yes, go on.

• 1:13:11Griffin Newman?

  This guy just looking at anything, I'm like, this is the most evil motherfucker who has ever lived.

• 1:13:17David Sims?

  Uh, absolutely. Yes.

• 1:13:18Griffin Newman?

  Just him neutral before he even starts doing shit. And then when he throttles into like kicking through a trailer door, it then becomes that much scarier. And I, like, I, uh, I assume he is a lovely, well-adjusted man and has much range as an actor and can play other things. But I see him in this, I'm like, they like conjured him through the depths of hell.

• 1:13:40Speaker 05

  When do we find out that he's a horn? It's not initially, right?

• 1:13:43David Sims?

  No, not at all.

• 1:13:44Griffin Newman?

  It's when he goes to, uh, his grandmother's house, right?

• 1:13:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:13:47David Sims?

  Yeah. And then he goes to Ben, uh, and you realize like, that's the connection. I don't want to say anything more because now I'm afraid of spoiling, like, sort of his origins or whatever. But yes, initially, you're just like, who's this? And he's kind of just this like ball of lightning, like, that is like the worst thing in the world, just tearing through town.

• 1:14:09David Sims?

  You've also got to check in with, uh, Caleb Landry Jones, Caleb Laundry Bag, and, uh, Amanda Seyfried, uh, in the trailer park run by Harry Dean Stanton. Uh, things are also going bad for them. This is like the bad vibes time.

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  But Harry plays a little song.

• 1:14:23David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  Which I love to see. It's so great. He's really, like, I'm surprised how good of a singer he is.

• 1:14:30David Sims?

  Right. So you got the Mitchum Brothers. Rodney and Bradley, played by Robert Nepper.

• 1:14:38David Sims?

  You know, TV character actor, right? I mean, how would you describe Nefer? Obviously, most famous for Prison Break.

• 1:14:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:43David Sims?

  People wrote a lot of weird fanfic about that guy.

• 1:14:45Speaker 05

  Who was he in Prison Break?

• 1:14:47David Sims?

  Teabag.

• 1:14:48Speaker 05

  Oh, of course.

• 1:14:49David Sims?

  He was one of those characters where they were like,

• 1:14:51Speaker 05

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 1:14:51David Sims?

  He's a recurring villain. He's like a pedophile. He's like the nastiest villain in Prison Break. And immediately, the viewers of like this 8 p.m. Fox show were like, more of him! Put him all over this show. What?

• 1:15:02Speaker 05

  My brother's always rewatching Prison Break.

• 1:15:04David Sims?

  I know there's, there's some nasty allegations about Robert Nefer.

• 1:15:07Griffin Newman?

  There's some bad stories. But I, I do think like both, uh, in terms of his public persona and the roles he plays, it is that sort of just like immediate, this guy's bad news kind of thing? That's his vibe? Is that fair to say?

• 1:15:20David Sims?

  Uh huh. And he, so he's in the show and you, right? You, that's the whole thing with him and then Bradley, who is played by Jim Belushi.

• 1:15:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:15:31David Sims?

  Who, uh,

• 1:15:31Griffin Newman?

  According to whom? Where are you getting that info?

• 1:15:34David Sims?

  According to Wikipedia. But you know who was initially supposed to play this role?

• 1:15:38Griffin Newman?

  John Belushi.

• 1:15:41David Sims?

  Paul Giamatti was supposed to play one of the two Mittens. I'm actually not sure which, but you think it would probably be the Belushi one because it feels like Belushi is more of a stand-in. You know, cause it's, it's like kind of one skinny, mean guy and one big kind of doofy guy.

• 1:15:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but Mott and Belushi would be interesting together.

• 1:15:58David Sims?

  Any combo is probably interesting.

• 1:16:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:01David Sims?

  But I love the presentation of these guys as like Vegas heavies, right? You know, like scary guys who you don't want to see at your door. But then all of the stuff we have with them is the goofiest,

• 1:16:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:16:13David Sims?

  most like airy, you know, ridiculous comedy. First, the first sequence is when, uh, the girl, uh, tries to swat a fly and hits Rodney in the head.

• 1:16:23Griffin Newman?

  Who live with them.

• 1:16:24David Sims?

  And they're all like screaming.

• 1:16:25Speaker 01

  My favorite character.

• 1:16:26David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  She's the best.

• 1:16:27David Sims?

  Candy.

• 1:16:28Speaker 05

  She's so good.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  She just, there's something about those moments where they're speaking to her and that recurring like comedy bit they do where she's just kind of spaced out. It's so funny.

• 1:16:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:40David Sims?

  And I feel like, you know, the further episodes we have with these guys, you know, with the, um, the box with Dougie out in the, you know, in the later episodes, it's just fucking hilarious.

• 1:16:51Griffin Newman?

  This is one of the few things that feels like it's setting itself up in a very clear, propulsive narrative way, which is like, the threads are being pulled together, that Mr. Jackpots is the same guy who works at the insurance firm.

• 1:17:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:17:07Griffin Newman?

  And Fishler has activated Sizmore. I know I'm getting ahead a little here, but I feel like these five episodes really cover this sort of mini arc.

• 1:17:15David Sims?

  Right. Like the, the wake of Mr. Jackpots, like bankrupting a casino, kind of, and pointing out this insurance fraud, like his disruptive energies.

• 1:17:24Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:17:24David Sims?

  Like what they do to this weird Vegas-y, you know, Arizona ecosystem.

• 1:17:28Griffin Newman?

  That Fishler is activating Sizmore, who clearly already was kind of in on his own scam with them, um, but also strongly dislikes Dougie.

• 1:17:39David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Griffin Newman?

  That there's this sort of like, uh, propulsive, uh, Dougie needs to be assassinated.

• 1:17:45David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:17:45Griffin Newman?

  Dougie needs to be taken out.

• 1:17:46David Sims?

  Take care of this problem. Right.

• 1:17:47Griffin Newman?

  Right. Can Sizmore point the mob towards Dougie so they take care of him themselves? Or Sizmore are gonna have to clean up the mess if they don't?

• 1:17:55David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:17:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. The common enemy.

• 1:17:58David Sims?

  Right. And so they, Ike the Spike is the first attempt at that. That doesn't work. That's how they become aware of him. Dougie meanwhile, has like gone to the doctor and the doctor's like, you're now the fittest, handsomest man in the world?

• 1:18:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:08David Sims?

  Your old chart says you're a piece of shit. Not sure what's going on there.

• 1:18:11Griffin Newman?

  Naomi Watts, I prescribe you fucking him tonight.

• 1:18:14David Sims?

  Exactly. I guess you gotta go home and break a bed, uh, Dolomite style, right? Like just have Dolomite sex.

• 1:18:21Griffin Newman?

  They do have, David, that's a very good way of putting it.

• 1:18:24David Sims?

  Yeah. God.

• 1:18:25Griffin Newman?

  They fucking human tornado.

• 1:18:27David Sims?

  What if I like joined a dating app and my thing was like, I wanna have Dolomite sex. Anyone like, you know what I mean? Like who understands this reference? Let me know. Otherwise, don't get in touch.

• 1:18:35Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna throw out a couple of reasons you shouldn't do that.

• 1:18:37David Sims?

  Probably not gonna do it. I'm gonna be honest with you.

• 1:18:42David Sims?

  Oh, boy. So, they have sex. Uh, we have another episode of Dr. Amp. I forget what he's yelling about this time. Do you like Dr. Amp?

• 1:18:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, he's like good Alex Jones.

• 1:18:53David Sims?

  Yeah, like, people are like, who's the left's, you know, Joe Rogan? Is it Dr. Amp?

• 1:18:58Speaker 05

  It's Dr. Amp, where he's like, there's too much sugar and everything's poison, which I basically agree with, though I like eating the poison, to be clear.

• 1:19:05David Sims?

  I'll keep drinking that garbage.

• 1:19:06Griffin Newman?

  That's an informed choice.

• 1:19:08Speaker 05

  But I'm not happy about it, but I like eating it.

• 1:19:10Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 1:19:11Speaker 05

  Um, I like Dr. Amp. Well, I just love Ross.

• 1:19:14David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:14David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, how do you feel? We haven't really asked you what you thought of, like, original Twin Peaks. I know you found Fire Walk with Me very rattling and, and

• 1:19:21Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:22David Sims?

  Good.

• 1:19:23Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:19:23David Sims?

  I think to your surprise, right?

• 1:19:25Speaker 05

  Moving, yeah.

• 1:19:25David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, which, to a lot of people's surprise, when they get around to that movie, they realize it's amazing.

• 1:19:30Speaker 05

  Yeah. Um, original Twin Peaks?

• 1:19:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:33Speaker 05

  You just have my guys I like, my guys I don't care about. I like some of the more...

• 1:19:37Griffin Newman?

  Give us a, give us a little bit of a, who's your power ranking? Who's on your shit list?

• 1:19:41Speaker 05

  Who's on my power? I like the kind of evil people in the show.

• 1:19:44David Sims?

  Okay, go ahead.

• 1:19:45Speaker 05

  You know, so I like, you know, the Horn brothers.

• 1:19:48Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:49Speaker 05

  And, uh, I like, is it Ray? Shelley's, not Shelley's, um, Norma's, like, ex-husband?

• 1:19:58David Sims?

  Oh, uh, no, Ray is, um...

• 1:20:00Speaker 05

  Ray's the other guy in this.

• 1:20:01David Sims?

  The guy with Mr. C, who tries to kill him and fails. Uh, you're talking, what is that guy's name? I, it's a...

• 1:20:06Speaker 05

  I forget, but I love that guy. I love Bobby. I mean, I think the arc of Bobby from original Twin Peaks to The Return is, like, so profoundly

• 1:20:15David Sims?

  Agreed.

• 1:20:15Speaker 05

  Beautiful, and...

• 1:20:16David Sims?

  My favorite arc in the show. Uh, Hank is who you're talking about.

• 1:20:19Speaker 05

  Hank, Hank. I love Hank.

• 1:20:20David Sims?

  Chris Mulkey. He's just one of those guys where you're like, oh, I know Chris Mulkey, and he's in a lot of Twin Peaks, but he's the 18th most important character, so I forget, you know, what he does. Sorry, go ahead.

• 1:20:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I like Audrey.

• 1:20:31Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:31Speaker 05

  Uh, I don't really care about James.

• 1:20:35Griffin Newman?

  I like James a lot.

• 1:20:36Speaker 05

  I don't care about Lucy and Andy.

• 1:20:38Griffin Newman?

  See, your name in my favorites.

• 1:20:40Speaker 05

  Sorry.

• 1:20:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:41David Sims?

  So, you like the more open-hearted characters, Griffin? The kind of sweetie pies? You like both Truman's?

• 1:20:46Griffin Newman?

  I, I do, like, I, I think holistically across the entire Twin Peaks project...

• 1:20:54Griffin Newman?

  Dana Ashbrook is maybe the most impressive performance.

• 1:20:58Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 1:20:59Griffin Newman?

  Right? I think like what McLaughlin is doing specifically on The Return trumps that. But then I also think like Ashbrook remains the second best performance on this. Like, I, I think, I don't know, we've talked about it before, but it's just kind of astounding the range he has to be able to play all the different sides of what Lynch wants. Whereas it feels like a lot of characters or actors only land on one side. Like, the fact that he is the character who's shared on both of our lists.

• 1:21:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:21:28Griffin Newman?

  When we maybe show preferences to different sides of Twin Peaks is like, he's kind of the only character that feels like he can adjust and adapt to any type of scene he's in.

• 1:21:37Speaker 05

  Well, and I think Lynch is kind of interested in the perpetuation of a certain kind of, dare I say, male violence.

• 1:21:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:21:44Speaker 05

  Which comes up again and again in this work and other stuff. And with Bobby, it feels like he's exploring why someone might become violent and also what can save them.

• 1:21:55Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:21:55Speaker 05

  From this violence, because he's such a dynamic and horrible character upon introduction and then you start to get into the weeds of like what his life is like and what he's motivated by and this sort of disaffected youth culture thing that he comes to represent. I absolutely love him. I wish there was more of him.

• 1:22:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:13Speaker 05

  The Return, but there's sort of just enough also to maintain something.

• 1:22:18Griffin Newman?

  It's so high impact whenever.

• 1:22:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:22:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, isn't it?

• 1:22:21Speaker 05

  Well, and he's got the Knoxville silver hair that also like, second I see someone who's gone all gray, I'm sort of moved.

• 1:22:28Griffin Newman?

  One of the most incredible.

• 1:22:29David Sims?

  Yeah. Why am I not going gray? What's going on with my fucking hair?

• 1:22:34Griffin Newman?

  I don't know. You seem too calm. You should try to find more things to get stressed out about in your life.

• 1:22:37Speaker 05

  I'm getting a lot of gray.

• 1:22:38David Sims?

  My dad went gray very young.

• 1:22:40Griffin Newman?

  I'd love to go gray.

• 1:22:41David Sims?

  My dad was like one of those guys, went gray in like his early 30s or whatever and it was kind of always his look.

• 1:22:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:45David Sims?

  And so I was always like, I bet that happens to me. And instead, yeah, I'm always stressed out. You hear me on this show.

• 1:22:51Griffin Newman?

  I know.

• 1:22:51David Sims?

  Heard me melting down about talking about subway games.

• 1:22:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:54David Sims?

  Just now. Where is my gray hair? I have a little in the beard?

• 1:22:59Speaker 01

  A little, yeah.

• 1:23:00David Sims?

  Just, just a little bit?

• 1:23:02Speaker 05

  I had an old roommate-

• 1:23:02David Sims?

  Again, no sympathy for Sims.

• 1:23:04Speaker 05

  Who had-

• 1:23:04David Sims?

  Doesn't have a subway game, doesn't have gray hair, no one cares.

• 1:23:07Speaker 05

  I have a friend who, an old roommate, who had the streak, the like Bride of Frankenstein streak, which I'm always like, it's crazy, a rogue, sure.

• 1:23:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. No, I'm a big fan. I think gray hair rules.

• 1:23:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:23:18Griffin Newman?

  And I think like, uh, not, not to speak ill of the late Tom Sizemore, uh, someone who had a sterling reputation and never did anything bad.

• 1:23:27David Sims?

  Right. I mean, the show is filled with people where you're like, just don't scroll too far on their Wikipedia page. Kinda just try, kinda just try to hit the halfway mark.

• 1:23:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but he has like such unnaturally dyed hair in this and I, I would say it, it doesn't feel like it doesn't fit for the character he's playing, but I'm just like, when you're looking at him existing in a show with a lot of people who have embraced their age.

• 1:23:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:23:48Griffin Newman?

  You're like, all of them look better.

• 1:23:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, I understand why McLaughlin's hair is dyed, cause he's sort of unstuck, but I, I do think he's also quite striking looking now with all the gray hair.

• 1:23:58David Sims?

  I mean, he has very much figured out this act of his life in that kind of goldblum-y way of right, like, you know, like, I am kind of at my best in my sixties all of a sudden.

• 1:24:07Griffin Newman?

  That's the case for almost everyone, as you said, like, it is, let's talk about Knoxville for half a second here.

• 1:24:13David Sims?

  A great example.

• 1:24:13Griffin Newman?

  Right? Like Jackass.

• 1:24:15David Sims?

  Would probably fit on Twin Peaks, too.

• 1:24:17Griffin Newman?

  He would be good.

• 1:24:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:24:20Griffin Newman?

  Forever starts filming with him with the dyed hair and then he said that it was just like, pandemic, filming shutdown, stop touching it up. And then we restarted filming and I was like, fuck it, what if I just don't re-dye it? And all of us are just like, yeah, this is amazing. This is exactly how it should look.

• 1:24:36Speaker 05

  I mean, Forever is so good in part because it's about like the aging body.

• 1:24:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:39Speaker 05

  And what the body can handle.

• 1:24:41Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:24:41Speaker 05

  That movie's amazing.

• 1:24:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it rules.

• 1:24:44David Sims?

  So, okay, so right, we have, right, Richard, episode 10 is a lot of Richard, uh, not Richard, sorry. No, uh, yeah, it is Richard.

• 1:24:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, Richard.

• 1:24:53David Sims?

  Tearing through, right, so first him harassing Miriam, then him going to, right, his, his mother's house, knocking Johnny to the floor, basically, trying to stealing her shit, his grandmother, sorry, not his mother.

• 1:25:06David Sims?

  So you've got a lot of that. Um, you have Albert, uh, gets, uh, goes on a date with Jane Addams.

• 1:25:12Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 1:25:13David Sims?

  That's fun.

• 1:25:14Speaker 05

  Love. Talk about gray hair.

• 1:25:16David Sims?

  Yeah, seriously.

• 1:25:17Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:19Speaker 05

  She's so good on The Idol.

• 1:25:22Speaker 05

  I'm not lying, but we don't have to get into it.

• 1:25:24David Sims?

  She was one of the better parts of the art idol, right? I do remember at the time, people were like, "Yeah, you know, Jane Addams is fun and there's someone else that's kind of fun on it, right?"

• 1:25:35Speaker 05

  Azariah.

• 1:25:37David Sims?

  Who?

• 1:25:37Speaker 05

  Hank Azariah.

• 1:25:38David Sims?

  Oh Hank, oh, he's in it?

• 1:25:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:25:41David Sims?

  Is that who I'm thinking of that people kind of praised? Yeah, I guess it must have been. I'm looking at this cast list. Yeah, Troye Sivan.

• 1:25:49Speaker 05

  Oh, well, Divine, Divine Joy Randolph.

• 1:25:51David Sims?

  Oh, is she good? Oh, yeah, sure.

• 1:25:53Speaker 05

  Well, she and Hank Azariah and Jane Addams are like her team.

• 1:25:56David Sims?

  Right, they're the managers who are like, "Stop fucking The Weeknd."

• 1:25:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, they're like-

• 1:25:59David Sims?

  And Lily Rose Depp is like, slow motion, smoking a cigarette or whatever she does.

• 1:26:04Speaker 05

  I thought Troye Sivan was kind of good on it.

• 1:26:05David Sims?

  Okay, I'll never watch it.

• 1:26:07Griffin Newman?

  Yep, me either.

• 1:26:07Speaker 05

  Definitely don't, but it lingers in the mind like few else.

• 1:26:12David Sims?

  But that's a very fun character, the Jane Addams medical examiner character. Like, that's a great example of a from Peaks of the Return character where you're like, "This is literally just a dusting of cinnamon," right? Like, it's not pivotal to anything, but we have found a great role for a great actor here.

• 1:26:25Griffin Newman?

  She's in it a lot.

• 1:26:26David Sims?

  She is.

• 1:26:27Speaker 05

  And Miguel is just so good. I just think, even in the original episodes, one of my favorites, I always love, in any kind of weird or supernatural shit, the one character who's like, "This is so weird, this is so stupid."

• 1:26:40David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:26:40Speaker 05

  Who's just the obvious cynic. I think it's just always appealing and he's so good at it. And I'm so moved by him because he's no longer alive.

• 1:26:49David Sims?

  Uh, yes. And he's just one of my favorite characters in the show generally.

• 1:26:53Griffin Newman?

  I'm trying to see if I can find the quote about it, but he was very sick by this point. He was also a regular on one of the NCIS shows, maybe New Orleans?

• 1:27:06David Sims?

  Really?

• 1:27:07Griffin Newman?

  LA.

• 1:27:09David Sims?

  Just will always make me laugh.

• 1:27:11Griffin Newman?

  But like, shot, I want to say-

• 1:27:12David Sims?

  Just LA? Like, what were, anyway, sorry, go on, yes.

• 1:27:15Griffin Newman?

  He shot his final episode like a week before he passed away. He was one of those guys who insisted on like still working until the very end because he needed to like not- To feel like he was still, you know, engaged with something.

• 1:27:27David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:27:27Griffin Newman?

  And they just talk about, like, you can find these quotes that I cannot find right now of, like, cast and crew from NCIS L.A., where they just kept on trying to, like, write around him and be like, "Let's lighten his workload because he's not doing well." And he was just like, "No, I gotta do this." And would come in and was just like the consummate fucking pro and would give his all and like nail it in one take. And then he'd like step off and they'd be like, "He is in such an astonishing amount of pain right now." And it is one of those things of like, there is such an innate, um, I don't know. There, there is this like weird, profound humanity to this character who is not given a ton of like emotionality.

• 1:28:07Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:28:08Griffin Newman?

  And it's obviously like given more weight now that we've like lost him.

• 1:28:12David Sims?

  But like then, yeah, Albert is a workaholic.

• 1:28:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:28:14David Sims?

  He's not, uh, empathetic. The whole original clash that he has with Cooper is that he shows up and he's like, "I fucking hate this town. Everyone's a bumpkin. Everything's so slow." And Cooper's like, "I love it here. It's regener- you know, it's re-energizing me." And like, that's their kind of fundamental.

• 1:28:30Griffin Newman?

  I, there is something to, I, I, I'm not saying it's a meta-textual thing. I think it's like the weird, like, nature of on-camera acting. There is something that is being transferred from the amount of effort it takes Miguel Farah to just like stand at this point in his life and to like look at people that lends it like such a weight when so much of his performance is like standing and nodding.

• 1:28:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:28:54Griffin Newman?

  You know, it is done with like such depth of like, "This guy really wants to be here." And these actions take a lot out of him, as minimal as they might seem.

• 1:29:03David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:29:04Griffin Newman?

  It, it lends some sense of import.

• 1:29:06Speaker 05

  And I don't think this is, I guess I don't know where it goes anymore than you do, but seeing that character start to come around.

• 1:29:13David Sims?

  Right. Start to open up a little bit.

• 1:29:14Speaker 05

  He's never gonna sort of be like, I assume, like, full-force sort of believer kook. But even these little kind of come, like, realization moments feel quite moving, all considered, too.

• 1:29:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:27David Sims?

  It's great.

• 1:29:27Speaker 05

  Because that's what aging is also.

• 1:29:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:30David Sims?

  That's, yeah. Um, right, but the other-

• 1:29:32Griffin Newman?

  And that's why we should all go gray. Why you shouldn't fight it.

• 1:29:35David Sims?

  The other big thing in season, in episode 10, right, is like the sort of the chain of events of like Patrick Fishler tells Tom Sizemore, you need to remove Dougie.

• 1:29:45Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:29:45David Sims?

  And so Tom Sizemore tries to convince the Mitchum brothers, like, he's your problem.

• 1:29:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:29:50David Sims?

  Likes, you know, to try and like, you know, solve the problem for him, right? We also in.

• 1:29:56Griffin Newman?

  Meanwhile, Dougie's boss, the boxer, what's his name? I'm realizing like 40% of these Twin Peaks episodes is me just going, what's his name again?

• 1:30:05David Sims?

  I know who you're talking about. Yes.

• 1:30:06Speaker 05

  Bash.

• 1:30:07Griffin Newman?

  Right. I, I don't remember which episode it's introduced in, but he like, gives credit to Dougie through his weird doodlings, pointing his attention to the thread of where the money is going, which would have ruined the company if they had not taken insurance policy out against the insurance policy. So actually, thanks to Dougie, everyone has ended up.

• 1:30:29David Sims?

  Everyone's in great shape. Right.

• 1:30:31Griffin Newman?

  No one's in trouble, but you have this sort of tension of like, well, knowing Dougie cannot really string together a sentence, will he be able to explain this to Jim Belushi in time to not be shot?

• 1:30:43David Sims?

  Because Jim Belushi doesn't seem like a patient person.

• 1:30:46Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:30:46David Sims?

  Yes. End of the episode is Rebecca Del Rio performing, of course, from Mulholland Drive a long time. All right. But so part 11.

• 1:30:53Speaker 05

  With Moby.

• 1:30:54David Sims?

  Oh, Moby's there?

• 1:30:55Griffin Newman?

  I was, I was wondering if it was.

• 1:30:57Speaker 05

  I said, that's Moby.

• 1:30:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:58Speaker 05

  I can, I clock.

• 1:30:59Griffin Newman?

  He's playing guitar over her shoulder.

• 1:31:00David Sims?

  He's the guitarist. Huh. Yeah. I never clocked that. You've worked with Moby. Should we not talk about that? We can cut that out.

• 1:31:07Griffin Newman?

  You've worked with Moby?

• 1:31:08Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah, we shouldn't talk about it, but I worked with Moby on something.

• 1:31:12Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 1:31:13David Sims?

  Was he nice?

• 1:31:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, he was nice. He was pretty, yeah, he was nice.

• 1:31:17David Sims?

  Cool. Is he a like vegan?

• 1:31:21Griffin Newman?

  I would have heard about it by now.

• 1:31:22Speaker 05

  It never came up sort of in discussion, but he has these big tattoos.

• 1:31:27Griffin Newman?

  Right. I was gonna say.

• 1:31:28David Sims?

  Remember when Eminem.

• 1:31:29Griffin Newman?

  Talk less to his face and more to his forearms, you might've gotten an answer.

• 1:31:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:31:32David Sims?

  Remember when Eminem, it's without me, I think, right? Like, you know, he releases without.

• 1:31:36Griffin Newman?

  David, you're looking at me.

• 1:31:39David Sims?

  And it's like, oh, Eminem's back. He's uncorking like all his comic stuff and he's like, and he fucking rags on Moby in this one.

• 1:31:46Griffin Newman?

  For doing yoga?

• 1:31:47David Sims?

  Moby? Like Eminem's, that's like the softest target imaginable. Like, that's the best he can do is, nobody listens to techno.

• 1:31:56Griffin Newman?

  Some of his targets are weird. And like him drilling down on Chris Kirkpatrick.

• 1:32:01David Sims?

  Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah.

• 1:32:02Griffin Newman?

  And I'm like, is it just truly that it's a good rhyme?

• 1:32:05David Sims?

  It probably was.

• 1:32:05Speaker 05

  It must be.

• 1:32:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:07David Sims?

  I just remember, like, there's like an attack on Moby in the music video, like a fake Moby. And it just felt like even to teen me in 2004, I was like, I don't think anyone's really worried about Moby, like, doing anything right now.

• 1:32:19Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's like when Emin-

• 1:32:20David Sims?

  He's not on your corner.

• 1:32:21Griffin Newman?

  When Eminem briefly announced he was retiring at like 33, you were like, yeah, after the Moby thing, maybe you do need a fucking break. It feels like the tank's a little empty.

• 1:32:30David Sims?

  Okay, so yeah, and right, part 11, we've still got, we've got more of the Caleb Laundrie Bag, uh, um, Amanda Seyfried drama. It's like, these, all these Twin Peaks characters have, or not, but like a lot of these Twin Peaks characters have had kids who are just like disasters.

• 1:32:46Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:32:46David Sims?

  Right? It's like, uh, you know, um.

• 1:32:50Speaker 05

  Shelly and Bobby have Becky.

• 1:32:53David Sims?

  Right. Uh, it's Becky and Richard and stuff. Like, it's just, but it's like.

• 1:32:56Griffin Newman?

  Well, you start the episode out.

• 1:32:57David Sims?

  In the 90s, they were all these troubled teens or whatever, but.

• 1:33:01Griffin Newman?

  But they're like soap opera troubled teens versus these being like bad people.

• 1:33:06Speaker 05

  They're perpetuating all the worst parts of their parents.

• 1:33:09Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:33:10Speaker 05

  Or their grandparents even. I feel like Richard Horn is more of a Richard Bamer. Um.

• 1:33:15Griffin Newman?

  Cause the Twin Peaks teens are like Grease rebel without a cause teens.

• 1:33:19David Sims?

  Right, right. They're troubled teens of a, of a prior youth. And now all these teens, 20-somethings, whatever they are. It's like this nasty, modern, kind of like depraved, you know, listless youth, like with no jobs and no prospects. And they're like living and stealing from each other and like on drugs. And it's like, it just feels more like. Real or in your face, even though in Twin Peaks, there was a lot of the same problems are, are, you know, being presented in soapy ways.

• 1:33:47Griffin Newman?

  The Bobby Shelley conversation with Amanda Seyfried, where they're like trying to put like a wall down and be like, you have to fucking stop it with this guy. And she's alternating constant between like, I love him and I hate him. Don't worry. I never want to talk to him again. Feels like, yes, not this like heightened dramatic version

• 1:34:04David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:04Griffin Newman?

  of a like doomed romance. It is like, oh, this is like a pretty young, comfortable look at someone caught in an abusive relationship with a dangerous person.

• 1:34:14Speaker 05

  Some of that just feels like a different way in which we talk about young people on TV now, though, also. Like, we don't really have those kind of like soapy characters anymore. And I think the concept even of like a CW teen show is very different now.

• 1:34:29Griffin Newman?

  Is striving for a greater sense of psychological realism than it.

• 1:34:33Speaker 05

  Or going like whole, whole hog fantasy, like history thing, but it's no longer doing like One Tree Hill or like Everwood or whatever.

• 1:34:41Griffin Newman?

  How much of that do you think is like a fear of the quote unquote insensitive portrayal? That like a lot of those types of shows were baked around these big dramatic arcs of things that are treated, not like insensitively, but are treated broadly versus now people wanting to be like, it's like a real snapshot of what these things are like. Even in the sort of broadest versions of those shows, people want credit for this is an accurate representation?

• 1:35:09Speaker 05

  Yeah. I think it's less about sensitivity and more just like people's imaginations are so much smaller and are not willing and everyone takes everything so literally.

• 1:35:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:19Speaker 05

  I feel. And some of those things were great because they were these like exaggerations, which now like our brains can't process. Whereas like, I don't know, you see like a, I'm just, whatever my Twitter feed is now, I'm always, always seeing old clips from Glee. And people are like, this is crazy. This was on the air. And it felt a little crazy at the time, but it was way closer to what shows were like

• 1:35:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:41Speaker 05

  back then than what they are now.

• 1:35:42David Sims?

  Glee had almost a throwback element with their, it felt like this, they were always doing very special episodes and all of that.

• 1:35:48Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:35:48David Sims?

  But just about more lurid stuff. In a way, right. Glee had this frankness to some of the very special episodes that was more contemporary.

• 1:35:57Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:35:58David Sims?

  It's not really a defense of Glee, which is not a show I ever loved.

• 1:36:02Griffin Newman?

  You weren't a Glee?

• 1:36:03David Sims?

  It was not a glee, but it did, you know, for a minute there, it was basically like, can we do like Friday Night Lights with songs, right?

• 1:36:12Speaker 05

  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:36:13David Sims?

  High intensity, real teen shit drama, but also it's like a silly musical with jokes and Jane Lynch is there. And now it's Euphoria, which is just everyone all the time screaming like, this is happening to me! Like, and you're just like, can you all shut up? Like, be quiet.

• 1:36:29Griffin Newman?

  Like, thinking of shit like the fucking Max Gossip Girl reboot and the creators coming out and being like, don't worry, we're really gonna examine privilege head on.

• 1:36:39Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:36:40Griffin Newman?

  And I'm like, what is the point?

• 1:36:44David Sims?

  But, right, the OC Gossip Girl era of aspirational shows, where you're like, don't you want to be part of this world, but also explore the dark side?

• 1:36:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:53David Sims?

  Now that's whatever, and it can't be done in a way that doesn't feel corny. What?

• 1:36:56Speaker 05

  You know what Twin Peaks season one reminds me of sometimes? Veronica Mars, which was a great example.

• 1:37:01David Sims?

  Veronica Mars.

• 1:37:03Speaker 05

  Bobby is very Logan Eccles.

• 1:37:04David Sims?

  Yes, Veronica Mars is 100%, um, fuck, what's his name? Uh, you know, Matchbox 20.

• 1:37:12Speaker 05

  Rob, Rob Thomas.

• 1:37:13David Sims?

  Rob Thomas, I mean, a different guy, but he has the same name, uh, the creator of Veronica Mars. Uh, Rob Thomas being like, right, can I make a kind of noir-y, Twin Peaks-y teen show?

• 1:37:25David Sims?

  He succeeded for a while, kind of fell off the rails of, you know, I think season three of Veronica Mars is, is really bad, but like,

• 1:37:31Griffin Newman?

  I've heard before being an uptick.

• 1:37:33David Sims?

  Well, no, four is, there's only three seasons before the revival, yeah.

• 1:37:37Griffin Newman?

  Why did I think?

• 1:37:38Speaker 05

  And then the movie.

• 1:37:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:40David Sims?

  It had a bunch of-

• 1:37:40Griffin Newman?

  Three is the one that ends with her signing up for the academy?

• 1:37:44David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:44Griffin Newman?

  Taking the test? Okay.

• 1:37:45David Sims?

  Where they kind of are trying to pivot to maybe a reboot-ish season four and then it just got canceled.

• 1:37:49Griffin Newman?

  It's the four I, I wrote in my head.

• 1:37:53David Sims?

  Yeah, maybe.

• 1:37:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:56David Sims?

  And then Rivers, Riverdale.

• 1:37:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:37:58David Sims?

  Which I never watched much of. That felt like where I'm like, okay, we were making copies of copies at this point. Cause Riverdale is like, what if Archie was Twin Peaks? And you're like, what if? And they're like, by episode three, they're like, Archie has magic powers. And I'm like, okay, well, you're, you've kind of gone beyond Twin Peaks at this point.

• 1:38:13Griffin Newman?

  But that's the thing, that's, there's also the weird effect of that being like, can you only get away with that level of like, operatic storytelling if you're couching it in the sort of like irony of, isn't it funny we're doing this with Archie?

• 1:38:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:38:29Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I've

• 1:38:30David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:38:31Griffin Newman?

  I feel like I've referenced this before and I was talking about this with someone recently and it caused me to like pull back up the file. But there was the fully buried, announced, shot and never released.

• 1:38:42Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:38:42Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Diablo Cody Powerpuff Girl show for CW.

• 1:38:45David Sims?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:38:45Griffin Newman?

  That was very much them trying to do the same thing.

• 1:38:48Speaker 05

  I thought you were gonna talk about the Heathers that got canceled also.

• 1:38:50Griffin Newman?

  No, I didn't ever watch that.

• 1:38:52David Sims?

  Oh, you didn't want to? The buzz was so good. Sorry.

• 1:38:56Griffin Newman?

  How was it?

• 1:38:57David Sims?

  I didn't watch it.

• 1:38:58Speaker 05

  I haven't seen it.

• 1:38:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, the Powerpuff Girl show felt like an absolute breaking point of them being like, it somehow became euphoria level shit in Powerpuff Girls.

• 1:39:10David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:39:10Griffin Newman?

  And trying to make the like electricity off the tension of you think these characters are innocent and we're making them do insane like ecstatic things. Um, and that, that felt like a, a cultural crash moment that happened quietly in shadows.

• 1:39:27David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:39:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:28David Sims?

  We must make something new. Veronica Mars, God bless it. Good show. To be clear, I genuinely love Veronica Mars. Uh, that was new. Yes, it was using old tropes or whatever, like all new, you know, stuff.

• 1:39:38Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:39:39David Sims?

  Do that again.

• 1:39:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:40David Sims?

  Come on. Chop, chop.

• 1:39:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Ben, do that again.

• 1:39:43David Sims?

  Oh, I'm seeing here that, uh, broadcast television is dead. So unfortunately.

• 1:39:46Speaker 05

  No, it's kinda back though.

• 1:39:47David Sims?

  Is it?

• 1:39:48Speaker 05

  Doctor Odyssey.

• 1:39:49David Sims?

  Should I watch that? What is that?

• 1:39:51Speaker 05

  It's so, what if you were a doctor on a boat?

• 1:39:55Speaker 05

  Joshua Jackson?

• 1:39:56David Sims?

  Whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 1:39:58Speaker 05

  Doc.

• 1:39:59David Sims?

  My interest jumped up 100%.

• 1:40:01Speaker 05

  Did you not know?

• 1:40:02David Sims?

  No, I don't know anything right now.

• 1:40:03Speaker 05

  He's the titular Odyssey.

• 1:40:04David Sims?

  Don Johnson.

• 1:40:05Griffin Newman?

  But Don Johnson's the captain of the boat.

• 1:40:06Speaker 05

  He's the captain of the boat.

• 1:40:07David Sims?

  And who else? I can see it. I just put it-

• 1:40:09Speaker 01

  His name is Odyssey though?

• 1:40:10David Sims?

  No, the boat, the boat is the Odyssey I'm seeing.

• 1:40:13Speaker 05

  He's the doctor on the boat.

• 1:40:14David Sims?

  Fuck. Oh, but that's such a good idea for a show. Oh, cop, and it's Ryan Murphy. It's all his.

• 1:40:20Griffin Newman?

  Cause he lived in a house. They call this guy Doctor Odyssey because he lives on the Odyssey. Does that joke even make any sense?

• 1:40:27David Sims?

  I like it.

• 1:40:27Griffin Newman?

  Who else is on Doctor Odyssey? No one laughed.

• 1:40:29David Sims?

  Apparently Pippa Sue. Philip Pissu. Love her.

• 1:40:32Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:40:32David Sims?

  And Don Johnson, as you mentioned.

• 1:40:34Speaker 05

  There's that clip going around of, um... Cape relant being poisoned by a smoothie made by Margaret Cho. And that's like, one of many things that Dr. Odyssey has to deal with.

• 1:40:43Griffin Newman?

  Wait, that happens on Dr. Odyssey?

• 1:40:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, Cape relant gets poisoned.

• 1:40:47Griffin Newman?

  By Margaret Cho?

• 1:40:49Speaker 05

  Smoothie.

• 1:40:50Griffin Newman?

  On Dr. Odyssey?

• 1:40:51Speaker 05

  There's something in the smoothie.

• 1:40:52David Sims?

  What's in there?

• 1:40:53Speaker 05

  I don't know, I think it's making her break out in hives.

• 1:40:55David Sims?

  Is it, um, yeah, okay. Uh, that sounds great. I'll, I'll watch it. I'll, I'll tune in tomorrow.

• 1:41:00Speaker 05

  I also, I don't watch any of the like 911 Lone Star spinoffs, but my parents watch all those.

• 1:41:05David Sims?

  I see clips occasionally from Twitter.

• 1:41:06Speaker 05

  Yes, me too, but if you want to know where any lost alumni is, they've shown up on that show. It's just all lost alumni.

• 1:41:14Griffin Newman?

  I feel like I saw a clip of Gina Torres yelling at a young girl who had a harmonica.

• 1:41:18Speaker 05

  With a harmonica in her mouth, yeah.

• 1:41:19Griffin Newman?

  That's one of the more insane things I have ever seen.

• 1:41:23Speaker 05

  They're like, "Time to get the Vaseline."

• 1:41:26David Sims?

  They still have to fill those hours.

• 1:41:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:41:28David Sims?

  And there's still actors who want to make money doing it and so on.

• 1:41:31Speaker 05

  That's why I'm like, maybe it's back.

• 1:41:33David Sims?

  It's like just stealth back, but nobody's talking about it really. And then once in a while, people will be like, "Do you know there's like harmonicas getting stuck in mouths?"

• 1:41:40Griffin Newman?

  Dude, the two of you, Ben and David, know what harmonica girl looks like? No. Cause it's like-

• 1:41:46Speaker 05

  It's really crazy.

• 1:41:47Griffin Newman?

  It's like killer clowns from Outer Splice, Space Makeup. Like, it is so fun.

• 1:41:52David Sims?

  That looks good.

• 1:41:53Griffin Newman?

  And Gina Torres is having like an intense emotional conversation.

• 1:41:56Speaker 05

  Well, and she's breathing out through the harmonica. Her friend is translating. Like, her friend can understand what she's saying through the harmonica, which is what's crazy.

• 1:42:04Griffin Newman?

  Right. Her friend is going like, "She's saying that her mouth hurts."

• 1:42:07Speaker 05

  And then there's all these people in the replies on Twitter being like, "This would never happen."

• 1:42:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:13David Sims?

  Yeah, you know, that would happen? You think, but you're like, "I don't believe you." Um, on Twin Peaks, uh, to get us back to that, um, Hastings, uh, Matthew Lillard, right? Takes everyone to see, like, to the forest, right? It's like the woods.

• 1:42:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:28David Sims?

  And he's like, "So I saw Major Briggs here. I saw his head."

• 1:42:31Griffin Newman?

  Just the head.

• 1:42:32Speaker 05

  Heads at Cooper.

• 1:42:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:33David Sims?

  Um, yeah, and it said Cooper.

• 1:42:35Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:42:35David Sims?

  Um, and, uh, this is where, uh, Gordon Cole, played by David Lynch. Do you enjoy that character frame?

• 1:42:42Speaker 05

  You know, in original, no. In The Return, yes.

• 1:42:47David Sims?

  I kind of agree with you. In original, you're kind of like, I, he's having fun, but this is a little much.

• 1:42:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:54David Sims?

  And then in this season, in The Return, he's such a, you really need him. Like, he's kind of the guy you're grabbing on to.

• 1:43:01Speaker 05

  He's steering the ship more.

• 1:43:02David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:02Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, so I really like him in The Return, yeah. And he sees a spiral in the sky.

• 1:43:07David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:07Speaker 05

  A vortex.

• 1:43:08David Sims?

  That's right. He sees this, uh, sort of very Lynchian image of this crazy vortex.

• 1:43:12Griffin Newman?

  Seemingly sees it for the first time.

• 1:43:14David Sims?

  And sort of yanks him out of the way.

• 1:43:15Speaker 05

  It would be scary if you saw that for real.

• 1:43:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:17David Sims?

  He's good at acting.

• 1:43:19Griffin Newman?

  David Lynch?

• 1:43:20David Sims?

  Yeah. He, he is, kind of.

• 1:43:23Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I, I watched the fucking Fableman scene maybe once every other week.

• 1:43:28Speaker 05

  Oh, it's awesome.

• 1:43:28David Sims?

  I watch it all the time.

• 1:43:29Griffin Newman?

  It is so compelling. Yeah.

• 1:43:31David Sims?

  It's one of those things where you're like, that anyone had any other idea for this scene is unimaginable to me. Like, this is, oh, this was always meant to exist.

• 1:43:39Griffin Newman?

  I feel like Spielberg hasn't said who it was, but that he had someone else he was gonna offer it to.

• 1:43:45David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 1:43:46Griffin Newman?

  And then it was, um, uh, fucking, what's his name? Uh, Kushner's husband.

• 1:43:52Speaker 05

  Mark Harris?

• 1:43:53David Sims?

  Mark Harris. Mark Harris is the one, according to Mark Harris, and I believe him, who suggested David Lynch initially, and it was a brilliant suggestion.

• 1:43:59Griffin Newman?

  He was like, you know, you should cast as Ford, and he was like, I have someone in mind, and he said, David Lynch, and then Spielberg's like, god fucking damn it.

• 1:44:05David Sims?

  Uh, yes, and Lynch was the one who had to be talked into it.

• 1:44:08Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:44:08David Sims?

  Because everyone else was like, that makes so much sense.

• 1:44:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:11David Sims?

  Um, but yes, uh, and then after they see this vortex, Matthew Lord comes down with a terrible case of head explosion.

• 1:44:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:44:19David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:44:19Speaker 01

  It looks like he was killed by the same thing that killed the-

• 1:44:23David Sims?

  The woodsman.

• 1:44:25David Sims?

  Oh, right.

• 1:44:26Speaker 01

  No, but I'm saying the wound looks like the same kind of wound that the people in the room with the glass box had.

• 1:44:33David Sims?

  Oh.

• 1:44:33Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  Like the way, the trajectory and the way that he was like cut.

• 1:44:38Griffin Newman?

  But you're saying internally, the logic is that the Woodsmen are who have killed him?

• 1:44:43David Sims?

  I, no, I'm not sure that that, that is true.

• 1:44:44Speaker 05

  I mean, we see them encroaching.

• 1:44:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:44:47David Sims?

  But, uh, that is, that is how I always took it, is that we're seeing sort of an invisible version of that, right? Like, you know, like where we've seen the Woodsman in episode eight, essentially crush people. We're basically seeing that again, except this time we don't see the Woodsman, but, and that's how it would look to most people, is someone's head just mysteriously going splat.

• 1:45:08Speaker 05

  What do you guys make of the Woodsman?

• 1:45:09David Sims?

  Well, we talked about them a fair amount on episode eight. No, I'm not saying we can't talk about them anymore.

• 1:45:14Speaker 05

  All right, I'll listen to it.

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  Do you like their look?

• 1:45:18Speaker 05

  Scary.

• 1:45:19Speaker 01

  How do you feel about soot?

• 1:45:21Speaker 05

  Soot?

• 1:45:22Griffin Newman?

  In general.

• 1:45:23Speaker 05

  Uh.

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  As far as like, a look?

• 1:45:27Speaker 05

  Hmm, not crazy about it.

• 1:45:29Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:45:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:45:31David Sims?

  Um.

• 1:45:31Speaker 05

  Kind of dirty, you know?

• 1:45:34Speaker 01

  Wow. I mean, cause I'm, I'm toying with the idea of introducing soot into my day to day.

• 1:45:41Griffin Newman?

  Don't you think you'd get uncomfortable, though?

• 1:45:43David Sims?

  And you would, you would probably annoy people by tracking soot all over wherever you went.

• 1:45:47Griffin Newman?

  That's true.

• 1:45:48David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:48Griffin Newman?

  The Pigpen effect.

• 1:45:49Speaker 05

  On what? Yeah. On your skin?

• 1:45:50David Sims?

  Pigpen always seems to kind of.

• 1:45:52Speaker 05

  On your clothes?

• 1:45:52David Sims?

  Maintain his internal atmosphere without disrupting others.

• 1:45:56Griffin Newman?

  You know, you're right.

• 1:45:57David Sims?

  Like, as much as Pigpen is, is filthy or whatever, he doesn't really mess with anyone.

• 1:46:01Griffin Newman?

  This is a great question. Does Pigpen?

• 1:46:04David Sims?

  Get things dirty.

• 1:46:04Griffin Newman?

  Does Pigpen leave residue on his surroundings?

• 1:46:08David Sims?

  I don't know. He's a great character.

• 1:46:09Griffin Newman?

  Or is he a self-contained? Well, he's a rich character.

• 1:46:12David Sims?

  He is a rich, but, but that's the whole thing with peanuts, where you're like, this six-year-old that Charles Schultz came up with is a rich character.

• 1:46:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:46:18David Sims?

  Times at forty.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  He's wealthy?

• 1:46:21David Sims?

  Yeah, he's, he's rich as balls.

• 1:46:23Griffin Newman?

  He's kind of got that, like, trust fund kid thing, where he's like, "Oh, I don't know, I don't have money for a while, man," but he's like, "Really?" He's loaded.

• 1:46:31David Sims?

  He's like, oh, I can't afford a shower.

• 1:46:33Griffin Newman?

  You're like, afford a shower?

• 1:46:34David Sims?

  I mean, I think of the woodsman as like agents or creatures of the Black Lodge or the other world, right? Like, they, they're malevolent, but they also don't feel like they have much of a personality. They just kind of like, they're little agents. Yes, they're little agents of Bob or agents of bad things.

• 1:46:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they're like minions.

• 1:46:51Speaker 05

  Okay, I agree.

• 1:46:51David Sims?

  They are kind of like minions. Uh, I also think-

• 1:46:54Griffin Newman?

  Dirty little minions.

• 1:46:55David Sims?

  In the really, you know, in the really Lynch-y way that would kind of just sound annoying when I say it, so I'm gonna say it anyway, they're kind of just like electricity.

• 1:47:06Griffin Newman?

  Okay, David, you can't stay there, you gotta keep talking.

• 1:47:09David Sims?

  But you know, like, that's what Lynch is often just sort of doing, where he's like, you know, electricity! And you're like, what do you mean? He's like, that's all I have for you, on like, what's creating a force, or, you know, what's driving the plot forward, or whatever, you know? And like how he always wanted to make that movie, Jesus, Ronnie Rocket.

• 1:47:26Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:47:26David Sims?

  And it's like, well, what's it about? It's like, electricity! Like, and like, that's what the woodsman are, like, do they have, like, uh, a person, you know, like, are they like, I want to kill Matthew Lillard now because he's been revealing our secrets? No, it's just kind of like, Lillard opened up energy from this other dimension, and it's just kind of rushing at him, and he can't take it anymore, and it's the end of him. Yeah.

• 1:47:50Griffin Newman?

  But also, so much of this show is like, these forces are unleashed because of the man-made and technology, and like, the disruption of nature, you know?

• 1:48:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I was thinking about, The Leftovers does that crazy flashback to like, cave people, and I was thinking about how this doesn't go, need to go that far back, to explore a certain kind of modern evil, that it's actually pretty recent.

• 1:48:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:48:15Speaker 05

  And otherwise, completely unchangeable.

• 1:48:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:19David Sims?

  What's important is that Matthew Lillard is gone. We salute his service.

• 1:48:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, great work.

• 1:48:23David Sims?

  Right?

• 1:48:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, I said R I P.

• 1:48:25David Sims?

  Okay, so what else we got? We got, um, yeah, we got a lot of this drama with Bobby and Shelley and Becky trying to figure out like, how do we, uh, how do we solve Becky's problem husband and all this stuff? Uh, at the Double R Diner, we've got, um.

• 1:48:40Griffin Newman?

  You have the scene with the woman in the car that we've talked about.

• 1:48:42Speaker 05

  Oh, it's so scary.

• 1:48:43Griffin Newman?

  And the kid vomiting, yeah.

• 1:48:45Speaker 01

  How about Hawk and Frank looking at the map together?

• 1:48:48David Sims?

  The map together.

• 1:48:49Speaker 01

  That's so fun.

• 1:48:50David Sims?

  The weird symbols.

• 1:48:51Speaker 01

  I feel like these episodes, the scenes start becoming really like.

• 1:48:55David Sims?

  Overwhelming.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, they just play for a really long time in a way that I, now that I'm getting used to the rhythm of the show, I'm really enjoying how long and luxurious they're, they're just going on forever. It feels like, does anyone else start clicking in at this point with that?

• 1:49:14David Sims?

  Yes, I also find Frank such a like calming, like presence that I want to be, I want to be in his presence as much as possible. I like how no bullshit he is when, you know, Hawk is like, this represents electricity, the, the corn represents sustenance and Frank's like, okay, you know, like not like, uh, well, come on Hawk or you know, like the, just the disarming acceptance of both Truman brothers is always very nice for me.

• 1:49:42Griffin Newman?

  But back to, I mean, this point of like the natural versus the, the manmade or like man's, uh, trying to impose its will upon the natural order and whatever, like Hawk, as the show goes on, having more and more of the answers and those answers coming from a sense of passed down tradition of a culture that was perhaps more attuned.

• 1:50:02David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:50:03Griffin Newman?

  That wasn't fighting against things, but was able to like coexist with an understanding. And now you have like people like Matthew Lillard, who's like trying to break the barrier, like breach the membrane and then as a result gets his fucking head blown off.

• 1:50:20David Sims?

  Gets exploded.

• 1:50:21Griffin Newman?

  Right, has people's fucking exquisite corpseing bodies across each other and everything.

• 1:50:27Speaker 05

  Have you guys talked much about Chad? I think it's interesting that he brought in sort of a cop who's bad.

• 1:50:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:50:33Speaker 05

  This time.

• 1:50:34David Sims?

  That we, we've sort of touched on it, that there's the, our old friends at the sheriff's department, who we love to see. And then there's this other element, this other office, basically, of like, regular ass shit cops.

• 1:50:45Griffin Newman?

  Right, like cynical.

• 1:50:46David Sims?

  Who are some malevolent and cynical.

• 1:50:47Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:50:48David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And hate to hear about the old days and like,

• 1:50:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:52David Sims?

  have any empathy for, you know, whatever happened back with Laura Palmer or whatever, anything like that. Uh, and yeah, Chad is another great, Chad Broxford, uh, great, I don't know the actor, John Piracello.

• 1:51:06Griffin Newman?

  He was on the last season of Barry as well and was like incredibly good.

• 1:51:11David Sims?

  Who was he in that? I did watch that.

• 1:51:13Griffin Newman?

  He plays one of the cops investigating the former partner.

• 1:51:16David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:18Griffin Newman?

  Girlfriend. It's him in like Sarah Burns. Yeah.

• 1:51:21David Sims?

  He's just a great kind of shifty guy.

• 1:51:23Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:51:24David Sims?

  I don't know. What do you think, Fran?

• 1:51:25Speaker 05

  He's awesome. I like that we have the separation between the cops of yesteryear and the ones of today.

• 1:51:33David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:51:34Speaker 05

  Um, and feels like it's like, I don't know, addressing something a little more modern about the justice system without having to be like acknowledging.

• 1:51:43David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:51:43Speaker 05

  What police do. I don't know.

• 1:51:45Griffin Newman?

  Even in the nineties, like Twin Peaks was depicting a like Mayberry Police Department.

• 1:51:51Speaker 05

  Completely.

• 1:51:51Griffin Newman?

  Like, it's not just that it was like an older school of policing. It's like an older school of television policing.

• 1:51:57David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:51:57Griffin Newman?

  Like Twin Peaks is airing at a time where like, you know, there is the modern cop show that is more hard edged. And here's like a drama with this sort of like throwback, more innocent benevolent cop force.

• 1:52:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:52:10Griffin Newman?

  And now you're not getting like, you know, like the S.H.I.E.L.D. level, like edgy pay cable cop. You're getting just like the kind of like worst cynical, mundane, arrogant, ineffect.

• 1:52:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:25Speaker 05

  I like that there were dispatcher. We get that scene of just her taking all the nine one one calls. And just being like, what's your location? What's your location? As if to say that like, while these guys were spiraling about Laura Palmer.

• 1:52:36Griffin Newman?

  There's just.

• 1:52:37Speaker 05

  There were just a bunch of other people having to deal with everything else.

• 1:52:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Episode 11 ends with the showdown in the desert. Basically.

• 1:52:45David Sims?

  Yes, I'm trying to think if there's anything else. Right. But the big set piece is the Mitchum brothers taking Dougie to the desert. And.

• 1:52:55Griffin Newman?

  Belushi being overcome.

• 1:52:56David Sims?

  He is not their enemy, essentially.

• 1:52:58Griffin Newman?

  With the mirroring of a dream that allows him to slow things down and investigate more thoroughly, find the pie in the box. Find the check. Which was just on his person. Like, that's the best part. Is like, they would have shot him dead and then found the check afterwards. It's only because they decide to frisk him. He was never gonna know to offer the check up.

• 1:53:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:53:17Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and then it takes him to like out for drinks.

• 1:53:20David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:53:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:21David Sims?

  And the, uh.

• 1:53:23Griffin Newman?

  And, and the woman who he, uh.

• 1:53:26David Sims?

  The, the, the slot addict, Linda Porter, who's a great old lady actor.

• 1:53:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, she's so good.

• 1:53:32David Sims?

  I love her. She's always funny. I feel like she's in, you know, a billion shows and movies as an old lady. But, uh, but this is why you cast Belushi, because he can do the turn from like hulking and a little intimidating to like, Dougie! Like so well.

• 1:53:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:51David Sims?

  I mean, I don't know Fran, like, but Chicago guy is in the bag for him.

• 1:53:55Speaker 05

  Of course. I was like, that's a classic Midwestern attitude.

• 1:53:58David Sims?

  He's a real pierogi.

• 1:53:59Griffin Newman?

  I basically never like funny Jim Belushi and always like dramatic Jim Belushi.

• 1:54:05David Sims?

  I would agree with that.

• 1:54:07Griffin Newman?

  Like, it's not even like, oh, he's been good a surprising number of times. I'm like, I think, like, he's incredible in Thief.

• 1:54:13David Sims?

  Yes, he is.

• 1:54:13Griffin Newman?

  Great in this.

• 1:54:14David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:14Griffin Newman?

  He's great in The Ghost Rider.

• 1:54:16David Sims?

  Yes, he is.

• 1:54:16Griffin Newman?

  And his one fucking scene where you're like, who the hell is that? I feel like anytime he shows up in this kind of role, you're like, well, why? And you know-

• 1:54:26David Sims?

  Why doesn't this happen more often?

• 1:54:27Griffin Newman?

  He talks about that he always intended to be a dramatic actor, and that when he went to comedy, like, John was disappointed. And then after John's death, people were like, can you be the new Belushi? There is something that kind of makes sense of like, what didn't totally click with him comedically is maybe a reflection of him slightly being pushed into a slot.

• 1:54:48David Sims?

  Well, is the problem with comedy Belushi exactly that? That he was essentially being put into fairly lackluster comedy projects?

• 1:54:57Griffin Newman?

  Fairly is even justice.

• 1:54:58David Sims?

  Right, out of a sort of like, well, we need somebody.

• 1:55:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:02David Sims?

  The big guys don't want to do this.

• 1:55:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:55:04David Sims?

  But you kind of have an, and like, because it's like, is Jim Belushi unfunny? No, he's fine.

• 1:55:11Speaker 05

  He's good humored, I think, but I don't think he ever slotted neatly into like a comedic trope.

• 1:55:18David Sims?

  No, it's like, like, okay, Jim Belushi's bad in K-9. I'm just kind of like, is Jim Belushi the problem here? Or was the, you know, you know, the problems had taken root long before Jim Belushi started opening his mouth.

• 1:55:29Griffin Newman?

  We were giving him our worst and he was not elevating.

• 1:55:31David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  He could never compare to his brother.

• 1:55:34David Sims?

  Well, there's obviously that.

• 1:55:35Speaker 01

  He would never be able to live up to-

• 1:55:37David Sims?

  If he was called Jim Chicago-

• 1:55:39Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's an interesting name.

• 1:55:40David Sims?

  And it was just like, okay, there's a big guy who has a mustache sometimes and sometimes doesn't. And he plays like a guy who's like, kind of like a cup of coffee and he's like, hey.

• 1:55:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:51David Sims?

  And I might then be just like, yeah, I love that guy. That's Chicago at character actor guy. I love that guy. The fact that he's called Jim Belushi, if he was even called Ralph Belushi, then it's another J.

• 1:56:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:01David Sims?

  Is really working against him to the point that you're like, did someone spell John's name wrong? Oh, no, John had already died and this movie stars Jim Belushi. Like, it's like the experience of watching a Jim Belushi movie.

• 1:56:11Griffin Newman?

  Salvador's another one.

• 1:56:14David Sims?

  Uh.

• 1:56:15Griffin Newman?

  The Oliver Stone movie. He's incredibly good at.

• 1:56:17David Sims?

  God, I haven't seen that movie in a long time.

• 1:56:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:19David Sims?

  Incredible, uh, James Woods.

• 1:56:21Speaker 01

  Okay, we should wrap up on episode 11. I just want to say one thing we gotta call out. That's a really good bit that I think might even become a classic bit for me in my rotation of classic bits is when they keep having Dougie do a toast and he just keeps reaching for the glass. I love that and I'm gonna have to integrate that.

• 1:56:40Griffin Newman?

  It's a good bit. So good. Dougie's got great bits. Um, but yes, this ends with a musical performance of, uh, Piano Man at the Bar rather than, uh, Roadhouse.

• 1:56:51David Sims?

  Uh, yes, uh, uh, which is great.

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• 1:57:32David Sims?

  Um, all right. Part 12. Yes. Part 12 is kind of the Diane episode, right? Where there's like more probing into what is going on with her. Um, so what do we have? You know, here, uh, begins with inducting Tammy, uh, Agent Tammy Preston into the Blue Rose Club, right? Those sort of long-

• 1:57:54Speaker 05

  Task force.

• 1:57:55David Sims?

  Yes. Uh, which is basically just Twin Peaks' X-Files.

• 1:57:58Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 1:57:59David Sims?

  It's like, right? It's like the FBI, if there's a case that's weird, it kind of gets secretly moved over to the Blue Rose people who are trying to-

• 1:58:05Speaker 05

  And their former UFO people.

• 1:58:07David Sims?

  Right. Right. Um, and they have, uh, they ask her and she says, "Let's rock", which is of course, you know, classic catchphrase from Twin Peaks.

• 1:58:17Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58:18David Sims?

  What do you guys think? Great? Good. Okay. Uh, now-

• 1:58:22Griffin Newman?

  We're really cooking with gas here conversational.

• 1:58:24David Sims?

  Well, what do you guys think? Sure. She's such a weird character to me.

• 1:58:29Speaker 05

  I can't figure out what this is.

• 1:58:31David Sims?

  Well, the fact that she's introduced with everyone being like, David.

• 1:58:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:58:35David Sims?

  You're so horny, you know, introducing this character, like on screen, they're saying that.

• 1:58:40Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:58:41David Sims?

  And then she spends the whole show being like, I'm here too, like with a notebook.

• 1:58:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:58:45Speaker 05

  And walking, walking all sexy.

• 1:58:47David Sims?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:58:48Griffin Newman?

  I have no read on her for that exact reason, where I'm just like, what are we doing here if you've like called out from the very beginning how this looks? Yeah, but yeah, sure.

• 1:59:00Speaker 05

  It's beyond me. She's not making anything worse.

• 1:59:02Griffin Newman?

  No, no.

• 1:59:03Speaker 05

  But neutral, neutral. Here's my thought about Diane.

• 1:59:07David Sims?

  Go ahead.

• 1:59:07Speaker 05

  She's got the Taylor Swift nails.

• 1:59:09David Sims?

  Please elaborate on that.

• 1:59:11Speaker 05

  All different colors.

• 1:59:12Griffin Newman?

  Is that a Taylor?

• 1:59:13David Sims?

  Is that Taylor Swift?

• 1:59:14Speaker 05

  She started doing it, I think, around the Lover era.

• 1:59:16David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:59:16Speaker 05

  And it's consistently sort of what her nails look like. She keeps her nails very short.

• 1:59:20Griffin Newman?

  Hmm, sure.

• 1:59:21Speaker 05

  Cause she has to play guitar.

• 1:59:21David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:22Speaker 05

  Um, and they're usually all different colors. So I do wonder, you know, this is pre Lover.

• 1:59:28David Sims?

  I was gonna say, what's Taylor era are we in around 2016, 2017?

• 1:59:33Speaker 05

  Well, or post Reputation, pre Lover, which is when she starts to do those nails.

• 1:59:37David Sims?

  So you're saying that Taylor Swift was ripping off Diane from Twin Peaks when she did that?

• 1:59:42Griffin Newman?

  It's an interesting take. It's an interesting take, yeah.

• 1:59:44Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:59:45David Sims?

  Um.

• 1:59:46Speaker 05

  My two cents. I just always think that. I'm like, she's got the Swift nails.

• 1:59:49David Sims?

  So we also, early on, and we'll talk more about Diane.

• 1:59:53Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:59:54David Sims?

  Pretty much, we've seen Sarah Palmer like watching TV.

• 1:59:58Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:59:58David Sims?

  But this is like our first interaction with Sarah Palmer, right? Like, like talking to people. She's, uh, uh, yelling about jerky at the supermarket and, uh, basically just kind of being like, remember how I had a really spooky, awful vibe in the original Twin Peaks? Like, that was fucking Barney the dinosaur compared to like what I'm like now.

• 2:00:17Griffin Newman?

  She's not doing great.

• 2:00:18David Sims?

  Right. I have just like festered in the, in the worst direction.

• 2:00:22Griffin Newman?

  There's no like horse.

• 2:00:23David Sims?

  To distract her anymore. And I think the best way to think about her is like, yeah, whatever poison has been in her since she was a kid. Cause she's the kid in episode eight is sort of is what's widely assumed. Who the creature crawls into the mouth of has just become like unspeakable. Yeah. Right?

• 2:00:39Speaker 05

  It's her and the woman honking the car where I'm just like, get me out of here.

• 2:00:43David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:43Speaker 05

  Like, I wish I wasn't watching this. And the sort of reintroduction of her watching the lions.

• 2:00:50David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:00:50Speaker 05

  Kill that animal is like maybe the worst thing I've seen in this where I was like.

• 2:00:54David Sims?

  The thing about Twin Peaks is it the return is it can be so funny. It can be so delightful. And then it can have sequences like that, or like Richard Horn running over a kid. And then the show not just cutting away from it, but like being like, we're sticking with this. Yeah. Where you're like, I don't know if I ever want to watch more of this.

• 2:01:14Speaker 05

  So Phil was saying, he's like, my, my memory of watching that at the time was that it was mostly all really nice. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Um, but he was like, he had remembered all the like, he's like, oh, Harry Dean Stanton stuff is so great.

• 2:01:25David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:25Speaker 05

  And seeing Dern in there is so great and Dougie is so great. And then it's like, well, yeah, but then every other scene is like the worst thing I've ever.

• 2:01:31David Sims?

  Tremendous amount of suffering.

• 2:01:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, had to sit through and consider.

• 2:01:34David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:35Speaker 05

  In a real way.

• 2:01:36David Sims?

  Right. Uh, we have, right. The next thing is right. Frank sitting down with Richard. I was sorry, with Ben and being like, so FYI, Richard is.

• 2:01:45Speaker 05

  The most evil person.

• 2:01:46David Sims?

  Is a homicidal maniac like, and Ben being like, ah, fuck, yeah.

• 2:01:52Speaker 05

  Ben is so evil in the first season and now when he's even modestly inconvenienced, I'm like, leave him alone. He's suffered enough.

• 2:02:01David Sims?

  That I, but I really think Ben's plotline in the return, which is not, you know, not a lot is happening with him. He doesn't really get punished for the terrible, terrible things he does in Twin Peaks. You know, was he ever kind of brought to justice for like. No. Running drug smuggling and prostitution rings and like abusing young women probably. Yeah. And it's like, no, he's just still there. Yeah. He's really bummed out clearly. Yeah. There's this kind of ambient like. Depression or evil around him to the point that he can almost hear it and is like asking Ashley Judd if she hears it too.

• 2:02:34Griffin Newman?

  I think that's a kind of hollowness that tends to set in with guys like this, though, where like people who like-

• 2:02:39David Sims?

  Like you're just still alive.

• 2:02:40Griffin Newman?

  Right. In like middle age, they get some electricity with what they're, but from the crimes they're able to commit and the power they're able to accrue. And then it's like decades later, it's like, okay, so I got away with it.

• 2:02:51David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:02:51Griffin Newman?

  What do I fucking do now?

• 2:02:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, but there's nothing to be gained from getting away with it. You just rot an inch.

• 2:02:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:02:58David Sims?

  And I just love it. I just love that that's sort of what the show does with him. And of course, that, yes, I mean, Richard is like the ultimate, you know, punishment for him in a way of like, you've only begotten like pure evil.

• 2:03:13Griffin Newman?

  There's something for me that still does not compute about how many, how much of the original West Side Story cast is still alive.

• 2:03:22David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:03:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:03:23David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:03:23Griffin Newman?

  Right. And part of it's probably the Natalie Wood died very young, but like knowing the cast members who died in between the original series and this, and the people who died in between this and now, and the fact that like Richard Bamer's still alive. I don't know if it's that I always think that West Side Story is older than it is, although it's certainly not new.

• 2:03:41Speaker 05

  It's pretty old.

• 2:03:42Griffin Newman?

  And part of it was that the actors were all so young in it.

• 2:03:45David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:03:46Griffin Newman?

  But, but it is like, a lot of them have lived very long, robust lives.

• 2:03:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, they're bolstered by being in a really good movie.

• 2:03:54Griffin Newman?

  That's, it gave them lifeblood.

• 2:03:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:03:56Griffin Newman?

  It's George Caris.

• 2:03:57David Sims?

  George Caris is still with us at the age of 90.

• 2:04:00Griffin Newman?

  Right. Rena Moreno is 94?

• 2:04:02David Sims?

  She's 92.

• 2:04:03Griffin Newman?

  92.

• 2:04:03David Sims?

  Crushing it, obviously.

• 2:04:05Griffin Newman?

  Bamer's like 90?

• 2:04:06David Sims?

  Russ Tamblyn is 89 and Bamer is 86, a baby.

• 2:04:12Griffin Newman?

  That's crazy.

• 2:04:13David Sims?

  It is crazy.

• 2:04:13Griffin Newman?

  How old was he in the movie?

• 2:04:17David Sims?

  Gonna have to do some math here. He would have been about 21, 22.

• 2:04:20Griffin Newman?

  Wild.

• 2:04:21Speaker 05

  Math grave.

• 2:04:23David Sims?

  But yes, I just think Ben's plotline is one of the cleverest uses of like the legacy impact of this show. This is what I'm saying.

• 2:04:33Speaker 05

  Should we talk about Audrey?

• 2:04:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:35David Sims?

  Yeah. So the, the- It's part 12 of 18, correct?

• 2:04:43Griffin Newman?

  Then Audrey comes in.

• 2:04:44David Sims?

  Audrey is suddenly introduced. Sheryl and Fen, big actress.

• 2:04:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:48David Sims?

  On the original show.

• 2:04:49Griffin Newman?

  Humongous character.

• 2:04:51David Sims?

  Big character.

• 2:04:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:52David Sims?

  Tied up in a lot of stuff.

• 2:04:53Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:04:54David Sims?

  She is married to one of the seven dwarfs.

• 2:04:57Griffin Newman?

  Uh-huh.

• 2:04:57David Sims?

  Or whatever. Like, she's like stuck.

• 2:04:59Speaker 05

  Sleepy.

• 2:05:00David Sims?

  Stuck with this small bald kind of accountant guy.

• 2:05:03Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:05:04Speaker 05

  And he's sleepy.

• 2:05:05David Sims?

  And he's sleepy. Played by, go ahead.

• 2:05:07Griffin Newman?

  No, I was gonna say, they seem to have like a terrible marriage of convenience, where there has been no passion between them in like decades. And he's like, why are you mad at me? And she's like openly kind of taunting him with, who is Billy? Do we know who Billy is? She keeps saying, I'm in love with Billy. I'm fucking Billy.

• 2:05:24David Sims?

  So, so this is the whole thing with the Audrey plot.

• 2:05:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:26David Sims?

  It's fucking insane. We don't know what she's talking about. Like, she refers to Billy, Billy, not to spoil, we never meet Billy.

• 2:05:34Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:05:34David Sims?

  Like, we don't really know what that is.

• 2:05:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:36David Sims?

  We don't really understand who Charlie is.

• 2:05:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:40David Sims?

  Like, we know that he's her accountant and that they got married for some reason.

• 2:05:44Griffin Newman?

  Uh-huh.

• 2:05:44David Sims?

  But I don't want to get too much into Audrey's total arc on this show.

• 2:05:50Griffin Newman?

  Uh-huh.

• 2:05:50David Sims?

  But I do feel like this is one of the more representational, like, you have to like,

• 2:05:55David Sims?

  this isn't quite reality.

• 2:05:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I'm a little, uh, confused by it.

• 2:06:00David Sims?

  We were all confused. He also references calling, she also references calling Tina. That's another character we like never see or understand who it is.

• 2:06:08Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:06:08David Sims?

  You know?

• 2:06:09Griffin Newman?

  Right. Tina's the woman that, yeah.

• 2:06:11David Sims?

  You feel like you are, it's disassociating watching this scene. Like, being like, I don't, have we seen Audrey before and I forgot about it?

• 2:06:19Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:06:19David Sims?

  Have we seen this character Charlie before and I forgot about it? What is this connected to?

• 2:06:23Griffin Newman?

  Also, her performance style is wildly different. Like, this just feels like an almost unrecognizable character, other than the fact that she still looks like Sheryl and Fen.

• 2:06:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:06:34Griffin Newman?

  You know, it's not just like circumstantial or like behavioral. It's like, I don't understand how this is the same person outside of like, I'm doing the math in my head of, are we supposed to fill in the gaps of there has been some sort of like, horn family, like, power causing inner soul rot?

• 2:06:52David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes?

• 2:06:54David Sims?

  Um, I don't want to tell you.

• 2:06:56Griffin Newman?

  Okay, well, then.

• 2:06:57David Sims?

  I don't really want to get into it, but like, I want to know what you guys thought of the scene.

• 2:07:01Griffin Newman?

  I, I, I. I really didn't know what to make of it.

• 2:07:04Speaker 05

  Same. I really liked when he said he was so sleepy because I was like,

• 2:07:08Griffin Newman?

  I mean.

• 2:07:09Speaker 05

  This was me earlier this year.

• 2:07:10David Sims?

  My brother and I would send pictures of Charlie to each other all the time.

• 2:07:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:14David Sims?

  Cause there's just something like, imagine one day you woke up and you were just married to this sort of small man who's bald and has glasses and sits behind a desk. And you're just like ranting like an insane person to him and he's just like,

• 2:07:29David Sims?

  you know, like it, it feels like some kind of like little Kafka story or whatever.

• 2:07:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I think he's giving like.

• 2:07:34David Sims?

  He's amazing. The guy's name is Clark Middleton. He, he is sadly dead. He died.

• 2:07:39Griffin Newman?

  Oh, really?

• 2:07:40David Sims?

  He died, I think of, of the West Nile virus. It's something very strange.

• 2:07:47Griffin Newman?

  During 2020 of the West Nile virus.

• 2:07:50David Sims?

  Yes, that is wild of COVID. Like I think he had some kind of arthritic thing like that, that had, you know, he's slightly shorter. He's like five, five or something.

• 2:07:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:58David Sims?

  But I don't think that is why, like that, that contributed to the West Nile thing. Like he just, I don't know. I don't, I don't really know much about the West Nile virus.

• 2:08:06Griffin Newman?

  Kill Bill. I'm trying.

• 2:08:08David Sims?

  He is.

• 2:08:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:08:08David Sims?

  I don't know who he is.

• 2:08:10Griffin Newman?

  He is, I want to say he's Michael Madsen's like right-hand man when they're burying her. Yeah.

• 2:08:18David Sims?

  No, yes, you're right. Yeah. No real memory of that scene.

• 2:08:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I mean, that's.

• 2:08:23David Sims?

  It's kind of the worst plotline in Kill Bill.

• 2:08:25Griffin Newman?

  No, I was gonna say, that's my favorite moment. Her escaping.

• 2:08:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:30Griffin Newman?

  I think is the most triumphant part of Kill Bill.

• 2:08:32David Sims?

  I've seen Kill Bill, volume one.

• 2:08:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:34David Sims?

  20 times.

• 2:08:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:08:35David Sims?

  And I think I've seen volume two like twice.

• 2:08:37Griffin Newman?

  They were both so seismic for me.

• 2:08:39David Sims?

  Right, right. I, for some reason, I haven't,

• 2:08:43David Sims?

  whatever, wanted to, I think two is more visceral in a way or more, it's more emotional.

• 2:08:47Griffin Newman?

  It's way more emotional.

• 2:08:48David Sims?

  And that's why I wanted to visit it last night. I should re-watch it.

• 2:08:51Griffin Newman?

  And there's this like masterwork of narrative construction around the Bud segment that kind of feels like, uh, I don't know, a downswing. And then I think has this like incredible, um, uh, cathartic payoff.

• 2:09:05David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:09:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:06David Sims?

  I mean, it's amazing and I, I like the movie a lot.

• 2:09:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:09David Sims?

  I've never seen the whole bloody affair.

• 2:09:11Griffin Newman?

  I haven't either.

• 2:09:12David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:12Griffin Newman?

  It's not, it's not, I feel like it's rarely viewable.

• 2:09:15David Sims?

  But it is, it exists.

• 2:09:17Griffin Newman?

  It does. It has been screened. Yeah.

• 2:09:20David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:20Griffin Newman?

  Then were you about to say something?

• 2:09:22Speaker 01

  Um, the Audrey scene. Yes.

• 2:09:24David Sims?

  Thoughts on the Audrey scene?

• 2:09:25Speaker 01

  It's like.

• 2:09:28Speaker 01

  Bad theater?

• 2:09:29Griffin Newman?

  It, that's the thing. I, it's one of the only scenes in the show so far where I'm like, is this just not working? Not like there is a deliberate sense of like unusualness that is being cultivated, that is out of touch with reality. But I'm like, is this scene actually failing at what it's trying to do? Or do I just not understand what it's trying to do?

• 2:09:49Speaker 01

  But it doesn't feel like necessarily out of left field for the character of Audrey to act like this.

• 2:09:56Griffin Newman?

  It's just a

• 2:09:57Speaker 01

  Because it reminded me of her She's petulant and Over the topness of

• 2:10:02Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:10:02Speaker 01

  Season one.

• 2:10:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:10:04Speaker 01

  Like, um, referencing all of these men and you have to come to the bar with me and be my company. And I don't know, it just, it feels still like it makes sense to me. It doesn't feel completely random.

• 2:10:17Griffin Newman?

  There's, yeah, there's a certain curling, but it is bizarre when, I don't, the show has held her back for this long, you know? And it's like, oh, this is the first time we're gonna see this character in like decades.

• 2:10:31Speaker 01

  Exactly. One of the last legacy characters to show up.

• 2:10:35Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then the couple of episodes leading up to this are connecting like, okay, that's her son. That's right. The whole family's coming in and you're like, man, they've been holding back on Audrey. This is gonna be meaningful. And then you have this 10 minute scene that feels interminable, where I can't quite get what's going on.

• 2:10:50Speaker 01

  And you're like caught in this loop where you're just like, can someone explain to me what's going on? And instead she's just having this circular conversation with this like stone wall of a person. Who then takes a phone call.

• 2:10:59Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:10:59Speaker 01

  And we don't hear the other side of the conversation. And he's like, what? That's crazy.

• 2:11:01Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then it's like, I'm not gonna tell you what I heard. Which, let's say like right before this, if not immediately before this, but in the, you know, the chunks before this, in this very episode, you have, uh, Cooper and Berenice Merlo, someone who I was so convinced was gonna be a major star and I feel like has weirdly kind of disappeared.

• 2:11:20Speaker 01

  She's gorgeous.

• 2:11:21Griffin Newman?

  And she's also just incredible. Uh, but this like kind of extended weird David Lynch comedy routine of like behavior being drawn out in a sort of inexplicable way, which then goes into, um, Alfred and, uh, uh, I said Cooper.

• 2:11:37Speaker 01

  Jane Addams. Yeah, you said Cole. You said Kareem and Cole.

• 2:11:40Griffin Newman?

  Um, they're sort of like check in on each other and what's going on with Denise. They, they've been tracking her phone. They saw the Vegas text and whatever. But that conversation is going on with these like protracted silences.

• 2:11:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:11:54Griffin Newman?

  Where it's very hard to read the energy of what's going on, but it all feels within Lynch's power.

• 2:11:59David Sims?

  You meant Diane, not Denise.

• 2:12:01Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry.

• 2:12:01David Sims?

  It's fine, it's fine. Denise is David Duchovny's character.

• 2:12:03Griffin Newman?

  Too many names.

• 2:12:04David Sims?

  Yeah, there's a lot of names, it's a lot of characters.

• 2:12:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the show has a lot of characters, I want to say that.

• 2:12:08Speaker 05

  The Audrey stuff almost felt like a scene from Invitation to Love, when you would get those little snippets.

• 2:12:13David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:14Speaker 05

  Earlier on, and it has that kind of almost classic soap opera scene, but then the longer it goes on.

• 2:12:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:12:21Speaker 05

  The more increasingly upsetting and unnerving it gets, and it makes me grateful that I was gonna power through all of this over the summer when I was sick, and then people told me specifically not to watch The Return.

• 2:12:31Griffin Newman?

  It might make your brain go crazy.

• 2:12:33Speaker 05

  My brain was going crazy.

• 2:12:34David Sims?

  Something you want to indulge, like you don't want to give to a feverish brain.

• 2:12:38Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:12:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, because I'd go insane.

• 2:12:39David Sims?

  I think so. Yeah.

• 2:12:42Griffin Newman?

  But this scene goes on for like over 10 minutes?

• 2:12:45David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:12:45Griffin Newman?

  Is a little...

• 2:12:47David Sims?

  And has no resolution.

• 2:12:48Griffin Newman?

  Inscrutable, right, has no resolution. And then I feel like the next time we see her is in the following episode where it's basically, it feels like another installment of this.

• 2:12:55David Sims?

  Correct.

• 2:12:56Griffin Newman?

  Conversation.

• 2:12:56David Sims?

  Another installment of the strange, her being like, I have to go do this thing involving a bunch of names that, you know, I, we don't know who I'm talking about, Tina, Billy.

• 2:13:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:07David Sims?

  Uh, and she just starts to break down, and he's like, do you want to end that story? And she's like, what story? The little girl who lived down the lane? And then again, it's just like, okay, and cut to the roadhouse and we'll have a musical performance, chromatics, and then...

• 2:13:19Griffin Newman?

  But also, two characters we haven't seen before having an argument about whether a guy they know is cheating on a woman they know?

• 2:13:24David Sims?

  It's so weird. Anyway, there will be more on this, is the only thing I will say.

• 2:13:28Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:13:28David Sims?

  But it's not going to be like, uh, incredibly straightforward.

• 2:13:32Griffin Newman?

  Well, weird, because I was expecting that at this point. No, I just, I really, uh, I'm, I'm feeling a little on edge about this, and if it's, I reserve judgment until I see the end.

• 2:13:44David Sims?

  Uh, yes. Um, okay, episode 13, I will say, I would call the arm wrestling episode.

• 2:13:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:13:50David Sims?

  Right? Is that, that's the best way to describe this one?

• 2:13:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:52David Sims?

  This is heavy on Mr. C.

• 2:13:53Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:13:55David Sims?

  Um, it's, uh, basically him going to like a goon lair. Right?

• 2:14:00Speaker 05

  The music is really crazy at the start of this episode, I gotta say.

• 2:14:03David Sims?

  Yes, uh, the, the, the episode, I think, begins with the Mitchum brothers taking Cooper, uh, Dougie, back to the office and like with lots of gifts, right? And just being happy, right?

• 2:14:13Griffin Newman?

  And they're like doing like a conga line in the office.

• 2:14:15David Sims?

  It's so fun.

• 2:14:16Griffin Newman?

  And then Sizmore realizes like, I'm fucked.

• 2:14:18David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:14:19Griffin Newman?

  And Fishler puts the screws in and is like, you have to resolve this today. Yeah.

• 2:14:23David Sims?

  You have one day to kill Dougie. Um, but then, yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's the Goon Village, the Goon Warehouse or whatever. Uh, and it's just, uh, Mr. C, um, winning them over, uh, essentially with punches and, uh,

• 2:14:38Griffin Newman?

  That's an interesting way to describe it.

• 2:14:40David Sims?

  Arm wrestling.

• 2:14:40Griffin Newman?

  The, the, the big guy, Derek Mears, who of course was, uh, remake Jason Voorhees?

• 2:14:46David Sims?

  Uh, yes, uh, in the, the twenty, the two thousand and nine, right?

• 2:14:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes, in the, your tits are so fucking juicy movie.

• 2:14:55David Sims?

  I wanna, look, you set it up, so I have to now find.

• 2:14:59Speaker 05

  What?

• 2:14:59David Sims?

  I now have to find the exact line.

• 2:15:01Griffin Newman?

  It's David's favorite quote that he sometimes misquotes.

• 2:15:04David Sims?

  I, that's the, that's the reason I wanted to, so in the remake of Friday the thirteenth that came out in two thousand and nine, largely, I think, just because there was a Friday the thirteenth, they found to be a good release date.

• 2:15:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:15:16David Sims?

  Right? Like, cause it came out on a Friday the thirteenth, I think.

• 2:15:19Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 2:15:20David Sims?

  Uh, do you know, uh, do you track what I'm talking about so far? In two thousand and nine, they remade it and there's a sex scene.

• 2:15:25Griffin Newman?

  The arm wrestling guy played Jason Voorhees.

• 2:15:27Speaker 05

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:15:28Griffin Newman?

  The biggest Jason.

• 2:15:29David Sims?

  February twenty, two, Friday the thirteenth of February, two thousand and nine.

• 2:15:33Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, if it came out February twentieth, that's a huge fucking whiff.

• 2:15:37David Sims?

  They don't realize it until like, wait, they're like, fuck!

• 2:15:40Griffin Newman?

  Wait, it was last Friday?

• 2:15:43David Sims?

  I wanna say it's, I forget the actors, I'm sorry to the actors.

• 2:15:46Griffin Newman?

  Juliana Gill.

• 2:15:47David Sims?

  Juliana Gill, okay, I, I don't remember the guy.

• 2:15:49Griffin Newman?

  I don't either, who does?

• 2:15:50David Sims?

  Ben, it's not Ben Feldman, he's in it, uh.

• 2:15:53Speaker 05

  I saw Ben Feldman at a restaurant once.

• 2:15:55David Sims?

  How's he doing?

• 2:15:56Speaker 05

  Handsome.

• 2:15:57Griffin Newman?

  What was he eating?

• 2:15:59Speaker 05

  Chinese food.

• 2:15:59David Sims?

  Cause that movie has Padalecki, RiHetti, Panabaker. It's got all these CW stars in it.

• 2:16:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:06David Sims?

  Ryan Hansen's in it. Like, it's just like, it just like scooped through like the WB and CW and Fox where it was like, who can we pick up? Who's around?

• 2:16:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:14Speaker 05

  I have to say something about Ryan Hansen, but I'll save it.

• 2:16:16David Sims?

  That's fine. Uh, there's a, an obscene sex scene, obscene in a perfectly fun dumb slasher movie way where he's filming her with a digital camera.

• 2:16:24Griffin Newman?

  While she rides him?

• 2:16:26David Sims?

  Yes, while she is on top of him and he says, "Your tits are fucking just..." dot, dot, dot, "So juicy, dude." That's how he says it. It's, it's amazing. It's one of the great line readings in horror cinema.

• 2:16:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:36David Sims?

  Uh, and she says, "You really know how to give a girl a compliment." It's a very funny, it's an objectively funny scene.

• 2:16:41Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:16:41David Sims?

  Like, it's not a scene where you're like, "Oh, but they stumbled into this nonsense." Like, no, this is funny. Like, this is good. Anyway. Derek Mears is the villain in that. Wasn't he in a swamp thing?

• 2:16:51Griffin Newman?

  Uh, yes, he was swamped in. I mean, he does, he, because he is such a physically striking presence and he's a very skilled actor and he has like improv training.

• 2:16:59David Sims?

  Hell, yeah.

• 2:17:00Griffin Newman?

  Uh, is very funny. I feel like was on Community, maybe plays kickpuncher.

• 2:17:04David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, that's right. He does.

• 2:17:06Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:17:07David Sims?

  And I love that joke in Community. Yeah.

• 2:17:10Griffin Newman?

  Um, but ends up doing a lot of creature stuff.

• 2:17:13David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:14Griffin Newman?

  Prosthetic stuff. But he's a guy you just introduce on screen and you're like, "Yeah, you wouldn't want to arm wrestle this guy."

• 2:17:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's the heavy.

• 2:17:19Griffin Newman?

  Here are the stakes.

• 2:17:21David Sims?

  Um, so he, yes, he's there and, uh, he, uh, mistress, he kind of toys with them before destroying him.

• 2:17:31Griffin Newman?

  Neutral position.

• 2:17:32David Sims?

  Yes. Uh, powerhouse McLaughlin.

• 2:17:36Griffin Newman?

  It's unbelievable.

• 2:17:37David Sims?

  It's all in his face.

• 2:17:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:17:40David Sims?

  That you just, you do believe, like, this is the strongest being in the world or whatever. It's all his face.

• 2:17:46Griffin Newman?

  There's also, I'm watching this. I know he's like this supernatural evil and he's capable of doing like inhuman things, right?

• 2:17:52David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:53Griffin Newman?

  So it's like Derek Mears is beating him and I've seen so many versions of this scene where I'm like, "Oh, what's gonna happen next is that he flips him over and his arm breaks."

• 2:18:01David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:18:02Griffin Newman?

  Right? Like, there's some other movie I'm thinking of where a guy gets powered up and he starts breaking people's arms. Do you know what I'm talking about?

• 2:18:10David Sims?

  Uh, no, no.

• 2:18:12Griffin Newman?

  And everyone's like, "You need to chill the fuck out."

• 2:18:14David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:18:14Griffin Newman?

  I don't know, it'll come to me at some later point. But I'm like, ready for it to just be like, a clean snap.

• 2:18:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:18:19Griffin Newman?

  Like he was humoring him.

• 2:18:21David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:21Griffin Newman?

  And instead, he resets him back to square one and just goes, neutral position. And you're like, that's scarier.

• 2:18:26David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:18:26Griffin Newman?

  That he's basically admitting-

• 2:18:28David Sims?

  Total control the whole time, right.

• 2:18:29Griffin Newman?

  That he can place him on whatever degree he wants.

• 2:18:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:18:34Griffin Newman?

  And then like, lets him once again, get him close, and then goes back to neutral position? And then starts scolding him?

• 2:18:41David Sims?

  Uh, yes.

• 2:18:42Griffin Newman?

  How much it hurts.

• 2:18:43David Sims?

  Right, exactly. And essentially, it's just like, this is a children's game.

• 2:18:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:18:48Speaker 05

  And then punches his face in.

• 2:18:50David Sims?

  Yes. Nasty.

• 2:18:53Speaker 05

  Yucky.

• 2:18:53David Sims?

  But funny.

• 2:18:54Speaker 01

  So silly, because all of these guys are scary as hell looking.

• 2:18:58David Sims?

  Well, it's also just funny that they just gather together. Right, exactly, in this like, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles lair. Where they're just, I guess, waiting for a phone call to be like, hey, someone needs a large man. Go to this place.

• 2:19:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:10David Sims?

  Right. And, uh-

• 2:19:13Griffin Newman?

  Is it the fly? Does the fly have a scene where he fucking arm wrestles a guy and clean, snaps his arm off?

• 2:19:19David Sims?

  Yes. The fly has an arm wrestling scene.

• 2:19:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:19:22David Sims?

  Absolutely, yes. That is what you're thinking of.

• 2:19:23Griffin Newman?

  I was just like, there's some sci-fi movie that has this sort of setup where someone's body is transforming, and they go in to try to like, get revenge on jocks.

• 2:19:31David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:19:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:32David Sims?

  Right. This is where the sort of, the, uh, Mr. C gets all the information of like, someone gave me this ring, told me to put it on, and to kill you.

• 2:19:42Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:19:43David Sims?

  Richard Horn shows up, at this point. He's sort of, you know, revealed to be kind of involved with all of this, exactly.

• 2:19:50Speaker 05

  Goon gang.

• 2:19:51Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:19:51David Sims?

  And then Mr. C kills Rey, who's made it this far somehow, but is finally dead.

• 2:19:55Griffin Newman?

  But gets his, like, interrogation he wants, puts the ring on him, sends his dead body to the lodge.

• 2:20:00David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:20:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:03David Sims?

  And, uh, I feel like that's the big thing that happens in this episode.

• 2:20:07Speaker 01

  He references Philip Jeffries.

• 2:20:09David Sims?

  He does. Uh, the David Bowie character, of course, who we don't see in this show. You'll sort of see a version of him at a certain point. But is sort of driving the campaign against Mr. C from beyond.

• 2:20:22Speaker 05

  Is, Bowie shows up in Fire Walk with me. Is there anything else that he pops up in?

• 2:20:28Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:20:29Speaker 01

  Missing pieces.

• 2:20:30David Sims?

  Well, that's true, which was part of Fire Walk.

• 2:20:31Speaker 05

  That's, that's what I hadn't seen.

• 2:20:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:20:33Speaker 05

  And wondered if I maybe messed up not watching that before this.

• 2:20:36Griffin Newman?

  There's a little more of him, yeah.

• 2:20:37Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:20:38Griffin Newman?

  But, I mean, he notoriously did not, uh, was supposed to be a bigger part in the movie. And then- Tour schedule shit happened and he only shot a little bit and he was even less of it.

• 2:20:48David Sims?

  Yes, he wasn't very satisfied with his performance, didn't like the accent he did.

• 2:20:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:52David Sims?

  And I think was considering coming back for this, but then he was sick and he died and like whatever, there's sort of workarounds for that.

• 2:20:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:59Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:21:00Griffin Newman?

  But I, I think his passing happened pretty late in their planning.

• 2:21:04David Sims?

  Uh, yes, I think so. Um, anyway, they sort of figure it out, but he's basically implied to just be from beyond a force working against Mr. C.

• 2:21:13Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:21:13David Sims?

  Who's maybe for a long time been trying to figure out how to defeat Bob.

• 2:21:17Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:21:18David Sims?

  We, what are the other big thing? You know, Bobby going to see Ed and Norma at the diner, got some Ed stuff.

• 2:21:25Griffin Newman?

  I mean, it's another Dana Ashbrook moment that kind of kills me of his reaction.

• 2:21:30David Sims?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:21:31Griffin Newman?

  Uh, to, or is it, um, no, no, it's in the scene with Amanda Seyfried.

• 2:21:37David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:21:37Griffin Newman?

  Where Shelley's new boyfriend shows up.

• 2:21:40Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:21:40David Sims?

  Where they're talking to her. Yeah.

• 2:21:41Griffin Newman?

  Right. And he just like beautifully plays like in real human emotions within a heightened show. The sort of sense of, oh, he fucked this up somewhere along the way.

• 2:21:53Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 2:21:53Griffin Newman?

  He's not jealous of this guy or angry at her. He's angry at himself and he's like, sort of just wistful and broken about all of this.

• 2:22:00David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:22:00Speaker 05

  Yeah. But it's just so nice when Ed and Norma invite him to eat with them too, because that's the thing of like being in a town with these people for your whole lives is like eventually you run out of people to eat with.

• 2:22:11Griffin Newman?

  But then Ed has the sort of, uh, mirror of that moment when Norma's new franchising boyfriend shows up.

• 2:22:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:22:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:22:20David Sims?

  Um, and he.

• 2:22:21Speaker 05

  Ooh, I was so mad to see him.

• 2:22:22David Sims?

  Right. We used to call it Norma's double R.

• 2:22:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And, and let's lower the ingredients.

• 2:22:28David Sims?

  Walter Lawford is this character.

• 2:22:30Griffin Newman?

  Like this show, or let me say, this character I feel like is the embodiment of, uh, Lynch's notion of the truest evil.

• 2:22:38David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:22:38Griffin Newman?

  Like this feels like a fucking executive note guy. I'm just like, we, look, we love your thing. Of course it's great if the pies are fantastic and delicious. What if they kind of suck though?

• 2:22:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:22:51Griffin Newman?

  And she's like, no, the pies have to be good. And he's like, of course. And I totally get that, but what if they're a little bit shitty? I just feel like especially knowing that the show almost doesn't happen because Lynch is fighting back and forth with Showtime people on like, I'm going to do this the way I want to do it or I'm not going to do it.

• 2:23:05David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:07Griffin Newman?

  It is, it is the thing I think he thinks is quietly the most insidious thing in the world.

• 2:23:12Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:23:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. The people who, as Albert Brooks would say, just, uh...

• 2:23:18Speaker 05

  Lower.

• 2:23:18Griffin Newman?

  Lower standards a little by little. Yeah.

• 2:23:20David Sims?

  The musical performance in this episode is James Hurley. A lovely, lovely moment.

• 2:23:25Griffin Newman?

  Let's say, bit of a one-hit wonder. He's still just playing this one song?

• 2:23:29David Sims?

  Just You.

• 2:23:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:30David Sims?

  That's his song.

• 2:23:31Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:23:32David Sims?

  Nice to see him, though, because he doesn't do much in The Return.

• 2:23:34Griffin Newman?

  When he's introduced early, I was ready for him to be a bigger part, especially since, you know, I feel like we talked about in our season one episode, but his career kind of got, like, diverted.

• 2:23:44David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:45Griffin Newman?

  And I thought he was such an interesting actor in the 90s.

• 2:23:48David Sims?

  Yeah?

• 2:23:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:49David Sims?

  No, I, I, yeah. And then we have the, right, the little coda with Ed.

• 2:23:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Eating his, uh...

• 2:23:57Speaker 05

  His soup.

• 2:23:58Griffin Newman?

  His soup.

• 2:23:59Speaker 05

  Good soup.

• 2:23:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:00Speaker 01

  Also Nadine, Jacoby.

• 2:24:03Griffin Newman?

  Oh, right, they finally talk.

• 2:24:05David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:24:05Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:24:06David Sims?

  She's still got, uh, her, uh, her drape shop.

• 2:24:08Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm. With silent drapes.

• 2:24:10David Sims?

  Yep. Run silent, run drapes.

• 2:24:12Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:24:13David Sims?

  Um, and she just loves him.

• 2:24:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:15David Sims?

  And says, "I remember seeing you in a supermarket during a storm," or something like that.

• 2:24:20Speaker 01

  She, uh, she dropped a potato.

• 2:24:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:24:22Griffin Newman?

  But this is like, this entire plotline is the kind of thing that you're like, this could be like, covered in three scenes in one episode and be like, and that's our, like, check-in with the two of them.

• 2:24:33David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:24:34Griffin Newman?

  And instead, it's like, been spread out across 13 episodes.

• 2:24:38David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:38Griffin Newman?

  In the most, like, drawn-out way. It is so fascinating which things he chooses to serialize and which things he chooses to encapsulate in, like, one moment and never revisit.

• 2:24:47David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 2:24:49Griffin Newman?

  Right? Because it's like, we have like, four different scenes of her watching him silently.

• 2:24:53David Sims?

  We do.

• 2:24:53Griffin Newman?

  And looking like transfixed.

• 2:24:55David Sims?

  While he's like, "The fucks are ready!" Again for like a while.

• 2:24:58Speaker 01

  That comes after like five episodes worth of scenes of him just painting shovels.

• 2:25:02David Sims?

  Then again, the fucks are at it again.

• 2:25:04Speaker 01

  The fucks are at it.

• 2:25:04Griffin Newman?

  He's not wrong.

• 2:25:05Speaker 05

  He's spitting. I wrote, he's spitting.

• 2:25:08Speaker 01

  We could use someone like him.

• 2:25:10Speaker 05

  The liberal Joe Rogan.

• 2:25:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:11David Sims?

  But we are still in WTF mode, I would say at this point, right? Like very little.

• 2:25:18Speaker 01

  Locking the gates.

• 2:25:18David Sims?

  Yes, but very little has been answered satisfactorily in any way for new viewers. Right? And we're two thirds of the way into the show at this point. So that's an interesting way to do it.

• 2:25:29Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:25:31David Sims?

  Fran.

• 2:25:31Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 2:25:32David Sims?

  Do you have any other things that you wrote down that we haven't touched on?

• 2:25:38Speaker 05

  I love Johnny Jewell.

• 2:25:39David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:25:40Speaker 05

  Who does the music for the series.

• 2:25:43David Sims?

  Yep.

• 2:25:45Speaker 05

  Italians do it better. Sort of his like collective. Just wanted to shout out.

• 2:25:50David Sims?

  Yep.

• 2:25:50Speaker 05

  Johnny Jewell.

• 2:25:51Speaker 01

  I thought these were some of the funniest. If not, I think this is the maybe the funniest block of episodes.

• 2:25:57Speaker 05

  The Mitchum Brothers are so great. All that stuff is awesome.

• 2:26:00Speaker 01

  The Mitchum Brothers paired with the three.

• 2:26:04David Sims?

  The dumb cops, the arm wrestling.

• 2:26:05Speaker 01

  Three, like assistants, their three blonde assistants.

• 2:26:10David Sims?

  Sure, sure, sure. The ladies.

• 2:26:11Speaker 01

  The showgirls. That, it's just.

• 2:26:13Speaker 05

  The show women.

• 2:26:14David Sims?

  The Dougie sex scene and all of the Dougie stuff, the doctor, the conga line, all that stuff is fun.

• 2:26:20Speaker 05

  I think once I grew to accept like the cadence of the Dougie stuff. And the sort of, you know, tacit acceptance of like, oh, this is what it is. It's not like, yeah, preamble or prologue to.

• 2:26:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:26:33Speaker 05

  Something else.

• 2:26:34Speaker 01

  This is the destination.

• 2:26:35Speaker 05

  But also watching the universe start to curve around and towards Dougie.

• 2:26:39David Sims?

  Break reality and remake it. Yes.

• 2:26:41Speaker 05

  You know what we didn't talk about? Sunny Jim's gym set.

• 2:26:45David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:26:46Speaker 05

  Looks so fucking fun.

• 2:26:48David Sims?

  One of his many presents. Yes.

• 2:26:49Speaker 05

  But also, did you guys call that a, I know that as a playset.

• 2:26:54Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:26:55Speaker 05

  Gymset.

• 2:26:55Speaker 01

  Jungle gym.

• 2:26:56Speaker 05

  Jungle gym? Sure. This is sort of a gym shoes, running shoes type of thing.

• 2:27:02Speaker 01

  It's, yeah, it's like a backyard playground.

• 2:27:05David Sims?

  Does it come with a spotlight?

• 2:27:07Griffin Newman?

  Well, no, it's got like light piping.

• 2:27:09David Sims?

  No, but I'm saying there's a, there's a moving spotlight.

• 2:27:12Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:27:13Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:27:13David Sims?

  Do you think that came?

• 2:27:14Griffin Newman?

  That, does that?

• 2:27:15David Sims?

  Pre-installed? I think it does, it must.

• 2:27:17Griffin Newman?

  But also it has like the classical music coming from with, within it, right? There's not like an external speaker system. The speakers are seemingly coming from-

• 2:27:25Speaker 05

  Coming from inside the slide?

• 2:27:26Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:27:28Speaker 05

  Seems awesome. I just said, that looks so fun.

• 2:27:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I like that also, like Amy Watts has been so skeptical of everything going on around Dougie. And she has the moment of like, what's going on here? And then is just like, I'm not gonna fucking turn this down. That, that Jungle Jim set?

• 2:27:45Speaker 05

  Sort of a Return of Martin Garre kind of thing happening with these guys.

• 2:27:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:27:49Speaker 05

  You guys know that one?

• 2:27:51David Sims?

  Of course.

• 2:27:52Griffin Newman?

  Let's also, just, I know we, I forefronted it, but Doug, Dougie going full Dolomite.

• 2:27:59David Sims?

  Yes. Crazy Sex, yes.

• 2:28:01Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:28:02David Sims?

  Bed, Bedrockin'.

• 2:28:03Griffin Newman?

  Right. It, it, she, he like, she reaches completion while he seemingly, while he just lies there motionless with a goofy grin on his face.

• 2:28:13David Sims?

  Yeah, maybe he's, you know, packing.

• 2:28:16Griffin Newman?

  Well, yeah, but he would have been packing before.

• 2:28:19David Sims?

  Yeah, but the vibes were bad.

• 2:28:21Speaker 05

  What happened in Return of Martin Garre?

• 2:28:23Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:28:24Speaker 05

  The new guy can really go for it.

• 2:28:25David Sims?

  It's kind of a Dave situation.

• 2:28:26Speaker 05

  Ben, do you know about this?

• 2:28:27Griffin Newman?

  It's kind-

• 2:28:28David Sims?

  I do not.

• 2:28:28Speaker 05

  It's this like Middle Ages court case, an early example of a court case that eventually became like a book and a movie about-

• 2:28:36David Sims?

  And it's just like a storyline, like Downton Abbey did a Martin Garre storyline. Like it, it's a storyline you could always do.

• 2:28:42Speaker 05

  Of a, of a married couple and the husband goes off, I think to war, go do something. And then a different guy comes back and is like, I'm your husband.

• 2:28:50David Sims?

  Bandaged up or something.

• 2:28:51Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:28:52David Sims?

  And it's like, the war has changed me, but I am Martin Garre.

• 2:28:54Griffin Newman?

  He's like a changeling husband.

• 2:28:55David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:28:55Speaker 05

  And back in the Middle Ages, the wife or whatever was just like, okay, sounds good. And they, I think, didn't have kids and then suddenly they did have kids.

• 2:29:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:03Speaker 05

  And then this new husband basically got into like a property dispute with someone else. And there was this big case about that. And then midway through that case, the original guy came back and was like, wait a minute, that's my wife. And her whole thing is that her testimony was like, I didn't know.

• 2:29:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:29:20Speaker 05

  I didn't know it was a different guy. I thought it was the same guy.

• 2:29:22Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:29:23Speaker 05

  And people have long sort of tried to be like, was she lying?

• 2:29:26David Sims?

  They didn't have pictures back then.

• 2:29:27Speaker 05

  They didn't have pictures, they didn't have mirrors, she hadn't seen him in eight years. Would you know it's the guy?

• 2:29:33Griffin Newman?

  But that's also- The imposter, that whole thing, where it's like, when you're dealing with the trauma of thinking you've lost someone, will your brain do more to justify things in order to not have to live with the tragedy?

• 2:29:44Speaker 01

  Well, there's that famous instance of the French couple.

• 2:29:48Griffin Newman?

  Well, no, no, that's the French kid who scammed the American.

• 2:29:51Speaker 01

  Oh, there, I'm sorry. Yes.

• 2:29:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes, the imposter.

• 2:29:53Speaker 01

  Yes, that's what I'm talking about, the imposter. That's another example of where they were just so missing their, their child that when this stranger shows up, who clearly is not their kid.

• 2:30:06David Sims?

  But we wanted to be the kid.

• 2:30:07Speaker 01

  They wanted it so badly.

• 2:30:08Griffin Newman?

  That's a lot of like, everyone refuses, people are like, Dougie, you sure are acting strange. No one is like, Dougie, you seem like a dog.

• 2:30:17Griffin Newman?

  You're like a malfunctioning robot, you know? Like, people take 10 seconds of being a little bit disarmed by his behavior before they go like, wait a second, are you the smartest, best fucker of all time?

• 2:30:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:30:31Griffin Newman?

  Human brain's crazy. Look, on this show, we usually do a segment called the Box Office Game, which is brought to you by our friends at Regal. Regal Unlimited is the all-you-can-watch-movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits. And hey, you can sign up now in the Regal app, right the link in the description, use code BLANKCHECK to get 10% off your three-month subscription. Fran, you're a famous Regal clown.

• 2:30:55Speaker 05

  I'm a Regal clown card-carrying member. I'll be, I'll be there Friday.

• 2:31:01Griffin Newman?

  To see what?

• 2:31:02Speaker 05

  See Wicked at 10 a.m.

• 2:31:04Griffin Newman?

  Hey.

• 2:31:04Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 2:31:07Griffin Newman?

  Did you just want to beat the rush?

• 2:31:10Speaker 05

  No, it just seemed like a good time of, it's probably my favorite time of day to see a movie.

• 2:31:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you could get some Greenberg coffee.

• 2:31:16Speaker 05

  Exactly, yeah.

• 2:31:17Griffin Newman?

  To supercharge.

• 2:31:18Speaker 05

  I think I'm most generous artistically earlier in the day.

• 2:31:22Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 2:31:23David Sims?

  Do you want me to find specific TV ratings?

• 2:31:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, well, I'm gonna say unfortunately today we're playing the ratings game because we're covering TV shows, unless we want to play the box office game for the same weekend.

• 2:31:32David Sims?

  I was thinking of that, but I don't know.

• 2:31:33Griffin Newman?

  It's five weekends.

• 2:31:35David Sims?

  Well, we're not gonna do five.

• 2:31:36Griffin Newman?

  That's what I'm saying, so let's, let's pick a, let's pick a ratings thing.

• 2:31:40David Sims?

  I'm trying to find, it's so annoying how like, fussy this thing, like, searching for ratings are.

• 2:31:48Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 2:31:49David Sims?

  July 9th, 2017.

• 2:31:51Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:31:52Speaker 05

  How does this work? Are you guessing with the?

• 2:31:54Griffin Newman?

  It's a great question. And much like Twin Peaks The Return.

• 2:31:57Speaker 05

  Is it supposed to work?

• 2:31:58David Sims?

  It's such a bad time to do this because it's the summer. So there aren't even like, you know, hit network shows to bring up.

• 2:32:05Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:32:06David Sims?

  It's like truly the random shit that plays.

• 2:32:09Griffin Newman?

  But last time we did cable.

• 2:32:10David Sims?

  I know.

• 2:32:11Griffin Newman?

  Ratings. So I'm like, let's try, let's do summer even though it's meaningless.

• 2:32:15David Sims?

  I'm trying.

• 2:32:15Griffin Newman?

  Let's do the chaos.

• 2:32:16Speaker 05

  This is actually feeling like the Audrey Charlie scene.

• 2:32:18Griffin Newman?

  Of summer.

• 2:32:19Speaker 05

  Right now.

• 2:32:19Griffin Newman?

  Network ratings, I'm saying. Let's lean into the weirdness.

• 2:32:23David Sims?

  Well, I have network ratings. Okay. So here's number one that night was a rerun of a news show on CBS.

• 2:32:29Griffin Newman?

  Perfect.

• 2:32:30David Sims?

  I'm serious.

• 2:32:31Griffin Newman?

  Sixty Minutes?

• 2:32:31David Sims?

  Sixty Minutes. Got a 7.4.

• 2:32:33Griffin Newman?

  Huge.

• 2:32:34David Sims?

  Then number two. Okay.

• 2:32:37Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:32:37David Sims?

  This was fun, a game show, but a celebrity version.

• 2:32:40Griffin Newman?

  It was a celebrity version of a game show. Huh. Was it a new game show?

• 2:32:46David Sims?

  No, this is a long running game show.

• 2:32:48Griffin Newman?

  Long running.

• 2:32:49David Sims?

  Yeah. It's had a few hosts over the years. Its current host is probably the most iconic.

• 2:32:53Griffin Newman?

  Its current host is probably the most iconic. A summer celebrity edition. It is Celebrity Family Feud?

• 2:33:01David Sims?

  That's right.

• 2:33:02Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:33:02David Sims?

  I can't tell you who was on it, but I can tell you it was a Celebrity Family Feud.

• 2:33:05Griffin Newman?

  Give me the date and let me see if I can do a secondary search here.

• 2:33:08David Sims?

  July 9th, 2017.

• 2:33:10Speaker 05

  You guys would be good on there with Murray.

• 2:33:12Griffin Newman?

  Oh, we'd kill it.

• 2:33:13David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:14David Sims?

  Family Feud is pretty fun.

• 2:33:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:15David Sims?

  I would be bad at the where you have to be on your own. I like being in the group.

• 2:33:19Griffin Newman?

  The, what?

• 2:33:20David Sims?

  The 30 seconds on the clock like that.

• 2:33:22Griffin Newman?

  Performance anxiety we get to?

• 2:33:23David Sims?

  Well, it's just scary.

• 2:33:25Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:33:26David Sims?

  Number three was the big reality show of the summer. I feel like it, I never am aware of what's going on, but it's always there.

• 2:33:33Griffin Newman?

  Is it a Bachelor?

• 2:33:34David Sims?

  No. That's a prime, that's a, you know, in season. This one's always on in the summertime.

• 2:33:39Griffin Newman?

  Big Brother?

• 2:33:40David Sims?

  Big Brother.

• 2:33:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:41David Sims?

  It's like, that just happens every year. I've never heard anyone talk about it. You know, Survivor, I have friends who watch Survivor, Bachelor, you know, like, I never hear about Big Brother, but it just, every year we lock 20 people in a house and film them. I guess.

• 2:33:55Griffin Newman?

  You said it was July 9th, 2017?

• 2:33:57David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, so the Family Feud episode was MLB Legends versus NBA Legends and NFL Stars versus NFL Legends.

• 2:34:07David Sims?

  Great.

• 2:34:08Griffin Newman?

  That sounds a little complicated.

• 2:34:09David Sims?

  It does.

• 2:34:09Griffin Newman?

  Sounds good. I recognize zero of the names.

• 2:34:11David Sims?

  Give me some of the MLB legends.

• 2:34:13Griffin Newman?

  I can't differentiate who's who. I'm just gonna list people for you right now. Levon Bell, Tyrone Bogues, Derrick Brooks, Marshall Falk, Prince Fielder, Horace Grant, DeAndre Hopkins, Robert Horry.

• 2:34:27David Sims?

  This is all over the place.

• 2:34:28Griffin Newman?

  Pedro Martinez.

• 2:34:29David Sims?

  Oh, Pedro was there. Amazing.

• 2:34:30Griffin Newman?

  Gary Payton, Patrick Peterson.

• 2:34:33David Sims?

  Basketball. I should have.

• 2:34:34Griffin Newman?

  Harold Reynolds, Ozzie Smith. I know Ozzie Smith.

• 2:34:36David Sims?

  There you go.

• 2:34:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:36David Sims?

  The Wiz.

• 2:34:37Griffin Newman?

  James Worthy.

• 2:34:38David Sims?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:34:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:39David Sims?

  Cool. Uh, probably pretty good. Um, number four, let me just do the math here, was, okay, another, well, what the fuck is this?

• 2:34:50Griffin Newman?

  Hmm, exciting.

• 2:34:51David Sims?

  Another thing hosted by Steve Harvey.

• 2:34:53Griffin Newman?

  Oh, great. Uh, not Miss Universe?

• 2:34:55David Sims?

  No.

• 2:34:56Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 2:34:57David Sims?

  This show appears to have lasted for one year, the year, the summer of 2017.

• 2:35:04Griffin Newman?

  It only aired in the summer of 2017. Not a game show format, variety format?

• 2:35:08David Sims?

  It was not exactly. It was a competition show.

• 2:35:13Speaker 01

  Is it Kids Say the Darnedest Things?

• 2:35:15David Sims?

  No, no, because that ran forever.

• 2:35:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:17David Sims?

  This was kind of a rip-off of another show hosted by Steve Harvey.

• 2:35:22Griffin Newman?

  They took one Steve Harvey show and then?

• 2:35:24David Sims?

  No, no, no, no. Steve Harvey is hosting this show.

• 2:35:26Speaker 01

  Are there kids involved though?

• 2:35:28Griffin Newman?

  Can you give us a hint about the show it ripped off?

• 2:35:30David Sims?

  You love it.

• 2:35:31Griffin Newman?

  I love it?

• 2:35:32David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:35:32Griffin Newman?

  Is it a Shark Tank rip-off?

• 2:35:33David Sims?

  Correct.

• 2:35:34Griffin Newman?

  Is it called?

• 2:35:35David Sims?

  You'll never guess. If you don't know the name, you'll never guess.

• 2:35:39David Sims?

  The name does not suggest Shark Tank rip-off.

• 2:35:41Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:35:42David Sims?

  It's called Steve Harvey's Thunderdome.

• 2:35:44Griffin Newman?

  Fuck that.

• 2:35:45Speaker 01

  Thunderdome?

• 2:35:46Griffin Newman?

  Fuck that.

• 2:35:48David Sims?

  That's right. Uh, number, was that number, I don't even know what number we're on.

• 2:35:52Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 2:35:53David Sims?

  That was number three. Was that?

• 2:35:56Griffin Newman?

  I thought that was three.

• 2:35:57David Sims?

  Yeah. Number four is another game show that aired on ABC in this game show night. Um, legendary game show. It's been on forever.

• 2:36:05Griffin Newman?

  Legendary game show. On forever.

• 2:36:07David Sims?

  And or at least.

• 2:36:08Griffin Newman?

  Is it usually a primetime show?

• 2:36:10David Sims?

  I don't fucking know.

• 2:36:11Speaker 05

  It's like Wheel of Fortune.

• 2:36:12David Sims?

  Yeah, it's not that famous, but you know. There's been many franchise versions of this.

• 2:36:16Griffin Newman?

  It's not Let's Make a Deal, it's not.

• 2:36:18Speaker 05

  Millionaire?

• 2:36:18David Sims?

  No.

• 2:36:20Griffin Newman?

  Many franchise versions of this. You have no fucking idea where it plays. You seem really passionate about it.

• 2:36:25Speaker 05

  Dancing, Dancing with the Stars?

• 2:36:26David Sims?

  No, no, you guys are shooting too high. It's just one of those game shows. How many, how many dollars?

• 2:36:32Griffin Newman?

  A million dollar?

• 2:36:34David Sims?

  It's a hundred thousand dollars. Started out as the ten thousand dollar pyramid. Now it's a hundred.

• 2:36:38Griffin Newman?

  Michael Strahan?

• 2:36:39David Sims?

  Now it is. Yeah, I'm not sure who hosted it back in twenty seventeen.

• 2:36:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:43David Sims?

  But currently, I believe it's hosted by Michael Strahan. And yeah, looks like, yeah, it would have been him then too. Okay, and number five is, oh man, okay, yeah, sure.

• 2:36:57Griffin Newman?

  David, just try to hide your enthusiasm a little bit.

• 2:36:59David Sims?

  Well, it's a little boring. ABC really owns this night with, you know, this kind of programming.

• 2:37:04Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:37:05David Sims?

  It's a rerun of an ABC compilation show.

• 2:37:08Griffin Newman?

  America's Fine Song Videos?

• 2:37:09David Sims?

  Yep, still crushing.

• 2:37:10Griffin Newman?

  It is the one consistent we have found across the entire history of Twin Peaks throughout decades, Fran.

• 2:37:17Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:37:17Griffin Newman?

  Is that America's Fine Song Videos is unkillable.

• 2:37:20David Sims?

  Yep, just keeps going. The only other thing I want to point out in this list is that CBS ran something called Candy Crush. Was that just like a Candy Crush game show?

• 2:37:27Griffin Newman?

  Must have been.

• 2:37:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:37:28Griffin Newman?

  Must have.

• 2:37:29Speaker 05

  I just kind of remember this.

• 2:37:30David Sims?

  Yeah. Oh my God, it was hosted by Mario Lopez.

• 2:37:33Speaker 05

  I just learned about Deal or No Deal Island.

• 2:37:35David Sims?

  Several reviewers called it one of the worst game shows ever made.

• 2:37:39Griffin Newman?

  I love Deal or No Deal so much, and I think Deal or No Deal Island is an affront to God.

• 2:37:44Speaker 05

  I just think it's so funny. We can put island on anything.

• 2:37:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:48Speaker 01

  Do they just play the game on an island?

• 2:37:51Speaker 05

  No, but I don't know what else they do. But that's part of it.

• 2:37:56Griffin Newman?

  But I think there's like an additional aspect of some sort of survivor-y outlast.

• 2:38:02David Sims?

  All right, now I have to pee, and we've been going for a long time.

• 2:38:05Griffin Newman?

  Okay, well.

• 2:38:05David Sims?

  I'm not complaining.

• 2:38:06Griffin Newman?

  Fran.

• 2:38:07Speaker 05

  What?

• 2:38:08Griffin Newman?

  Our dear friend Blockbuster Fran Hoffmann.

• 2:38:09David Sims?

  You okay Fran?

• 2:38:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm fine.

• 2:38:12Griffin Newman?

  Is there anything you'd like to plug?

• 2:38:13Speaker 05

  I'll plug Fran magazine, of which-

• 2:38:15Griffin Newman?

  Everyone subscribe.

• 2:38:16Speaker 05

  I'm actually the editor in chief.

• 2:38:18Griffin Newman?

  Oh my god.

• 2:38:18Speaker 05

  I'm sorry to downplay-

• 2:38:19Griffin Newman?

  What a reveal.

• 2:38:20Speaker 05

  I'm sorry to downplay my own role in that magazine.

• 2:38:23Griffin Newman?

  The old gray lady.

• 2:38:24Speaker 05

  It's that Substack, yeah.

• 2:38:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:28Speaker 05

  The middle aged gray lady. Yeah, that's it. And Bright Wall Dark Room, which I love to plug.

• 2:38:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:34Speaker 05

  She's always doing good stuff.

• 2:38:35Griffin Newman?

  You're always doing great stuff over there.

• 2:38:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, I gotta figure out what to write about next. Maybe I'll write about Here.

• 2:38:41Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Here.

• 2:38:41Speaker 05

  Or 10am Wicked.

• 2:38:42Griffin Newman?

  Have you seen Here?

• 2:38:44Speaker 05

  No, but I really want to.

• 2:38:45David Sims?

  See Here.

• 2:38:47Speaker 05

  I'm gonna see it.

• 2:38:48David Sims?

  I mean, I don't like it, but I do want to know what Fran thinks.

• 2:38:50Speaker 05

  I have a story about it, but I'll tell it. Off mic.

• 2:38:52Griffin Newman?

  It's a firmly off mic story?

• 2:38:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:38:54Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:38:56Griffin Newman?

  And hey, while you're signing up for Fran magazine on Substack, also check out the checkbook. The Blank Check Newsletter. Jesus. The Blank Check Newsletter, which Marie Barty is doing a incredible job with.

• 2:39:11David Sims?

  And Ben, I think you want to say something.

• 2:39:14Speaker 01

  Like, a lot of the episodes, not all of the episodes, but a lot of the episodes of Twin Peaks, it ends with a song.

• 2:39:21Griffin Newman?

  Oh!

• 2:39:22Speaker 01

  And it's that time of the year again.

• 2:39:24David Sims?

  Jingle, jingle. That's my contribution.

• 2:39:28Griffin Newman?

  Trying to slow things down.

• 2:39:30Speaker 01

  Yes, that's right. Another slow Christmas is upon us.

• 2:39:35Speaker 01

  We're recording this in advance. I can say now, currently in this moment, I'm not exactly sure what the album is gonna be.

• 2:39:42Griffin Newman?

  Excited.

• 2:39:43Speaker 01

  Good. Yep. But it will be out in the world at the time of this episode being released.

• 2:39:48David Sims?

  So maybe this will be a less collab-heavy and more like Ben back in the lab, are we thinking?

• 2:39:52Speaker 01

  No, it's just kind of more, will people get stuff to me in time?

• 2:39:56Griffin Newman?

  You're always putting out a lot of feelers, and then there's a frantic rush of like, what's making it in by the deadline?

• 2:40:01Speaker 01

  Pretty much.

• 2:40:02David Sims?

  Possibility it's an entirely AI album. We'll see. Who knows?

• 2:40:05Griffin Newman?

  Let's say no.

• 2:40:06Speaker 01

  No, yeah, let's not say that.

• 2:40:07David Sims?

  It won't be an AI album. Ben is not doing any, uh, what's that thing everyone got mad about back in the day?

• 2:40:14Griffin Newman?

  The Ben F T.

• 2:40:15Speaker 01

  Ben F T is none of that, is all jokes.

• 2:40:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:18Speaker 01

  The end of the episode here, I figured I'd like to just play a little sample of one of the songs that I can confirm will be on the album.

• 2:40:25Griffin Newman?

  Great call. Well, let's say, and as always, here is an exclusive first glimpse for your ears of "Slow Christmas."

• 2:40:56Griffin Newman?

  All the time, time, I've been flying. How still we sing, we lie.

• 2:41:34Griffin Newman?

  I've been flying. Tears and trees. Same way, the same side. Let them start.