Jaws with Timothy Simons

Dunnnh dun. Dunnnh dun. Never before had two notes provoked such terror as they did in JAWS, the 1975 classic that invented the summer blockbuster, catapulted Steven Spielberg to Hollywood legend status, and inspired generational trauma about water. Actor and recognizable famous person Timothy Simons joins us to talk about this classic shark tale, and we go long on Scheider, Dreyfuss, Shaw, and the career of journeyman director Joseph Sargent (?). Which member of the Blank Check crew would be least likely to get attacked by a shark? Obviously Ben, because he respects water. What the hell did Chief Brody think he was gonna do when he apprehended the shark - arrest it? Why isn’t Griffin familiar with the concept of a ferry? We dare to ask these questions, just as the citizens of Amity dared to go into the water. The Box Office Game is Sponsored by Regal Cinemas: Sign up for Regal Unlimited today http://blankcheckpod.com/regal and get 20% off your 3 month subscription when using code BLANKCHECK Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was live streamed for the first time ever. But also the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 03

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 03

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36David Sims?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 03

  It's $20. We had a blast and the spread master really got to work.

• 0:43David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around.

• 0:45Griffin Newman?

  Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Speaker 04

  You all know me. You know how I earn a living. I'll catch this pod for you, but it ain't gonna be easy. Bad cast. Not like going down the pond chasing talk shows and live streams. This pod swallow you whole. A little shaken, a little tenderizing and down you go. We gotta do it quick. They'll bring back your tourists, put all your businesses on a paying basis, but it's not gonna be pleasant. Value my neck a lot more than 3,000 bucks, chief. I'll find him for three, but I'll catch him and kill him for 10. But you gotta make up your minds. If you want to stay alive, then ante up. If you want to play it cheap, be on welfare the whole winter. I don't want no volunteers. I don't want no mates. There's just too many captains on this island.

• 2:24Speaker 04

  10,000 for me by myself. For that, you get the bits, the context, the whole damn podcast.

• 2:35Griffin Newman?

  Look, I didn't do the Indianapolis speech.

• 2:38David Sims?

  Yeah, I don't think you want to.

• 2:39Griffin Newman?

  You have to be relieved.

• 2:40David Sims?

  No, I think that was, that was the right choice anyway, because I think that's the better, the better, uh, speech.

• 2:47Griffin Newman?

  You know what astounds me every time I watch this film? That introduction comes earlier than I remember. But yet, he is then basically gone for the next 15 minutes.

• 2:56David Sims?

  I was about to say, he, there's not much quint.

• 3:00Griffin Newman?

  Well, the second half, I mean, this is-

• 3:01David Sims?

  There's more quint in the second half.

• 3:04Griffin Newman?

  It, this is kind of a fascinating two act movie.

• 3:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, it is essentially two completely separate movies, right?

• 3:10Griffin Newman?

  Right, and you could argue that each act has a three act structure kind of within it, but it is two movies in so many ways.

• 3:16David Sims?

  Or, but, another way you could think about it is it's a three act movie, but then act three grew far beyond what an act three usually does, and acts one and two just kind of got squeezed over, if that, you know, like-

• 3:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but I, I was doing, like, let me check runtimes on this. It is basically the halfway mark that he's like, fuck it, get quint, we're going on the boat. And then they're on the boat for the second half of the movie.

• 3:38David Sims?

  Yes.

• 3:39Speaker 05

  I don't want to nitpick. I'm wondering, just for sort of like, uh, uh, like constructive criticism, was there a missed opportunity in there when he talks about the money where you could have said Patreon?

• 3:51Griffin Newman?

  You know, I thought about it. I thought about-

• 3:53Speaker 05

  Oh, you did, okay.

• 3:54Griffin Newman?

  I thought about, do you, do you make some sort of implication of what you're, you want to bring back the, the, um, the, uh, the sponsors? Is that the analog for the tourists on the beach, you know? And I was like, look, we're a little behind the eight ball today. That's some complicated math. I was happy the way I broke pot and cast into different words to fill in the different names he used for fish.

• 4:18Speaker 05

  I really like bits and the, yeah, it's great.

• 4:20Griffin Newman?

  I, I did, I did enough replacement, I felt. Is there a perfect version of this? Yes. Is there the jaws of podcast intros? Possibly. I didn't do it. Maybe it was the jaws to a podcast intros.

• 4:32David Sims?

  Uh, or it's definitely not the jaws with the revenge, though, of-

• 4:35Griffin Newman?

  No, and I think, I don't think it's the orca of podcast intros. I don't think it's the, the deep. I haven't either. Isn't it crazy that Shaw did the deep?

• 4:44Speaker 04

  That three years later, he's like, I'll do another one of these.

• 4:47David Sims?

  I mean.

• 4:47Speaker 04

  Fucking pay me.

• 4:49David Sims?

  I've never seen The Deep.

• 4:50Speaker 04

  I've never seen The Deep.

• 4:51Griffin Newman?

  I feel like that's the best liked of all the Jaws rip offs. And certainly has the most interesting cast and Yates.

• 4:59David Sims?

  Nick Nolte.

• 5:00Griffin Newman?

  Jacqueline Desai.

• 5:01David Sims?

  Eli Wallach, yeah, Louis Cussell Jr. Good title.

• 5:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 5:05David Sims?

  Scuba action.

• 5:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 5:07David Sims?

  Drugs.

• 5:08Griffin Newman?

  Hey. Underwater drugs. Ben, write that down.

• 5:13David Sims?

  Ben, Ben just sort of very half heartedly pretended to write something down.

• 5:17Speaker 04

  And then scratches nails against a tropper.

• 5:19David Sims?

  What is this podcast?

• 5:20Speaker 05

  Take the pen cap off.

• 5:22David Sims?

  He just sort of went like.

• 5:24Griffin Newman?

  I said, we're behind the eight ball today.

• 5:25Speaker 05

  I don't want to, and again, I don't want to belabor it.

• 5:28Griffin Newman?

  Please.

• 5:28Speaker 05

  Cause I know we are behind the eight ball.

• 5:29Griffin Newman?

  We are behind the eight ball.

• 5:30Speaker 05

  David's life has.

• 5:31Griffin Newman?

  Hashtag behind the eight ball.

• 5:33Speaker 05

  David's life has completely Oppenheimer'd and yet we are still going to talk about a movie that is, as everybody has talked about.

• 5:41David Sims?

  My life has Oppenheimer'd?

• 5:43Griffin Newman?

  I like this. I think this is good. The David is Shrek and his life is Oppenheimer.

• 5:47David Sims?

  Oppenheimer's reaction to having children was basically to go to his neighbor's house and be like, can you take these? I have no interest in raising them.

• 5:54Speaker 04

  Nice to meet you.

• 5:55Speaker 05

  The, I, the only reason I was even able to give any feedback on the intro is because it was so good. And so I think even saying.

• 6:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 05

  It's not anywhere close to the Jaws two of intros. It's so much better than that.

• 6:08Griffin Newman?

  Well, I appreciate that. Yes. But this is also, look, let's just say, let's just say it.

• 6:13David Sims?

  Whoa, David, look out behind you. Nah, it's true. There is truly a Jaws behind me.

• 6:19Griffin Newman?

  This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. Oh yeah, that's right. We have a Jaws beach towel hanging over a sound.

• 6:25David Sims?

  I'm gonna do a photo shoot with it.

• 6:27Griffin Newman?

  You're gonna do a photo, you're gonna do a beach?

• 6:28David Sims?

  Yeah, me and, me and Marie are conspiring on that.

• 6:31Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 6:31David Sims?

  Yeah. But, uh, but this episode's not till January. We got time.

• 6:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Are you gonna do a polar bear plums this year?

• 6:37David Sims?

  That might be fun. Never done that. I witnessed it once.

• 6:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:41David Sims?

  And I was like, it seems, this seems like it would be a pain in the ass.

• 6:45Griffin Newman?

  It's a good way to shake off the Oppenheimer's.

• 6:47David Sims?

  Yeah, it might be.

• 6:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:48David Sims?

  My friend Lindsay, a friend of the show, Lindsay Weber, she does it. Maybe I'll ask her this year, like, when does that happen? What's the procedure?

• 6:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:55David Sims?

  Right, anyway.

• 6:56Speaker 05

  One time in the middle of the summer, I was, I was in Chicago and I lived kind of close to the, lived close to the lake and it was like a really hot day and I was on my way home and I just said, fuck it, I'm like three blocks from home, I'm just gonna go in the lake. Like, it was so, it was like that kind of hot and humid.

• 7:10Griffin Newman?

  Sure, yeah.

• 7:11Speaker 05

  And I went in the lake and it was so cold that when it like got to my heart line, I thought, I thought my heart was gonna stop.

• 7:17David Sims?

  You had that crazy sort of, you're seizing.

• 7:19Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 7:19David Sims?

  It feels like, yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 05

  And so I don't know, having had that experience, I don't know that I would ever recommend or do a polar bear plunge.

• 7:26David Sims?

  Some people are very into the cold plunging. I'm not good at it. I don't, I'm not that good.

• 7:30Speaker 03

  Carson Daly, it saved his life. Do you hear this?

• 7:33Speaker 05

  No.

• 7:33Speaker 03

  Carson Daly.

• 7:34Griffin Newman?

  Daly, it's, the fuck are we talking about? I don't wanna be the David here.

• 7:39David Sims?

  You're Griffin.

• 7:40Griffin Newman?

  The fuck, in the Jaws episode, we're talking about Carson Daly?

• 7:43David Sims?

  You're Griffin and I'm David.

• 7:45Griffin Newman?

  What is this?

• 7:46David Sims?

  Blank check with Griffin and David.

• 7:47Griffin Newman?

  I wanna see if he can do it.

• 7:48David Sims?

  It's a podcast about filmographies, filmmakers who get a massive success early on and are given a blank check to do whatever crazy passion project they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby.

• 7:58Griffin Newman?

  I usually say early on in their careers, but go on.

• 8:01Speaker 05

  Is this the first time you've ever actually introduced?

• 8:03David Sims?

  I think I've tried to do it a couple of times.

• 8:04Griffin Newman?

  We're 10 years in at this point, every time there's like a special event on the show, we're forgetting that we've done it two times before.

• 8:10David Sims?

  Um, we are here discussing, of course, the films of early, the early films of Steven Spielberg. What's the mini series called? I totally forgot.

• 8:16Griffin Newman?

  It's called Podrassic Cast.

• 8:19David Sims?

  Sure it is.

• 8:20Griffin Newman?

  It is, it is. I'm sorry, that, that's just the fact.

• 8:23David Sims?

  And we are certainly discovering, thank you Ben for sending this New York Post article about how Carson Bailey does cold plunges.

• 8:30Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  He was a wreck mentally and physically.

• 8:35Griffin Newman?

  Not, not, not to go full David mode, but Ben, I'm shutting you down. I refuse.

• 8:41David Sims?

  We are discussing his guarantor for life, essentially?

• 8:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I'd say that.

• 8:46David Sims?

  Jaws.

• 8:47Griffin Newman?

  I'd say that, I'd say it would have been really difficult to ever lose the status that Jaws gave him.

• 8:54David Sims?

  Despite the fact that he has to bounce two films from now.

• 8:57Speaker 05

  What is the bounce to?

• 8:58David Sims?

  1941. His only true massive bounce, where it's like, cost too much money.

• 9:03Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 9:03David Sims?

  Production was somewhat out of control.

• 9:05Speaker 05

  Right.

• 9:05David Sims?

  Was a bomb.

• 9:06Speaker 05

  He has disappointments after this.

• 9:08David Sims?

  Right. Relative disappointments, but he doesn't really make flops.

• 9:11Speaker 05

  Calamity of his career.

• 9:12David Sims?

  Right. And even that, of course, was completely survivable.

• 9:15Speaker 05

  Right.

• 9:16David Sims?

  Partly because he goes on to then make Rage Against the Lost Ark and E.T. back to back after it.

• 9:20Speaker 05

  Right.

• 9:20David Sims?

  Helpful. But partly because he made Jaws. So no one's exactly gonna shut the door on Steven Spielberg even after that.

• 9:26Speaker 05

  One thing that I'm excited about today is that.

• 9:28David Sims?

  Jaws.

• 9:29Speaker 05

  Jaws.

• 9:29David Sims?

  Jaws.

• 9:30Speaker 05

  Jaws. I am excited to talk about Jaws, but as I was watching it.

• 9:33David Sims?

  Hmm. The movie Jaws.

• 9:35Speaker 05

  How, I mean, like, I even texted you guys last night to be like, Jaws is a good movie.

• 9:38David Sims?

  Yeah, that was the exact text.

• 9:40Speaker 05

  That, that.

• 9:40David Sims?

  Which, by the way, one of your better texts.

• 9:43Speaker 05

  I feel like we have a, we have a little bit of set dressing to do.

• 9:46David Sims?

  There's a little bit. We're gonna scratch the blackboard a couple of times.

• 9:49Speaker 05

  I have to spend a lot of time in the car.

• 9:52David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 9:52Speaker 05

  But I still am interested in having an active, an active back and forth with you two.

• 9:58David Sims?

  You come in hot with some, uh, what Siri dictated.

• 10:02Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 10:03David Sims?

  SMSs.

• 10:06Speaker 05

  And yes, I understand that a lot of times they don't make sense.

• 10:09David Sims?

  Sometimes there's errors.

• 10:10Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 10:10David Sims?

  Sometimes it's just funny to imagine you saying the words aloud.

• 10:13Speaker 05

  Right. Sometimes they're like tone poems, but yes, the way they come across. David and I, very often upon receiving them, have no choice but to interpret them as you yelling at the top of your lungs. And it's not like they're being, uh, translated by Siri into all caps, but they have that energy. I, and I, I do understand that. I, I, I think maybe I put that energy out in my life, but that is, I don't remember me yelling at the car.

• 10:41David Sims?

  I don't think of you as a yeller. I don't think of you as a yeller. That's what's funny about them is they, they read. Yelling energy in the text. Who's our guest?

• 10:48Speaker 05

  Angry. Our guest today, of course, the great Tim Simons. I'm so happy to be here.

• 10:54David Sims?

  Returning to the show. A veep of. Nobody wants this.

• 10:58Speaker 05

  The hottest show in the planet.

• 11:02David Sims?

  It's a hot show.

• 11:03Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 11:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a hot show.

• 11:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 11:05Speaker 03

  By the way in today, a young girl stopped him on the street.

• 11:09Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 11:09Speaker 03

  And asked for a photo.

• 11:10Speaker 05

  Really? Yeah. Had to take a little selfie. I said, thank you.

• 11:13Griffin Newman?

  Was she a fan of Ralph Breaks the Internet?

• 11:16Speaker 05

  Uh, she wa- oh, she was not a fan. I listened to your Ralph Breaks the Internet episode. It was great.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  Oh, hell yeah, dude.

• 11:24Speaker 05

  No, she had, she didn't bring that one up. She was talking about Nobody Wants This. That is-

• 11:28David Sims?

  Oh, that's what I was-

• 11:29Speaker 05

  That was, that was the thing.

• 11:30David Sims?

  It wasn't your Jonah Ryan. It's Nobody Wants This.

• 11:33Speaker 05

  Okay, cool.

• 11:34Griffin Newman?

  Veep was a very successful show.

• 11:35Speaker 05

  But I don't think, I was telling Ben about this off the mic.

• 11:38Griffin Newman?

  This is what I was gonna say.

• 11:39Speaker 05

  It was all, it always sort of had a niche audience.

• 11:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes, and I also think the type of people who watched it are perhaps the type of people who are less likely to stop someone on the street and ask for a photo.

• 11:49Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 11:50Griffin Newman?

  Right? I do feel like this show, I was saying this to someone the other day, but Nobody Wants This feels like one of those like Netflix cannot pretend this is not a success.

• 12:01David Sims?

  Right.

• 12:02Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 12:02Griffin Newman?

  And it doesn't feel like they're trying to convince us it is.

• 12:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 12:07Griffin Newman?

  I just like suddenly the show within a week of it coming out was just like, oh, clearly this thing is hitting.

• 12:11Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 12:12Griffin Newman?

  And you are an incredibly tall man.

• 12:14Speaker 05

  I'm very noticeable.

• 12:15Griffin Newman?

  That everyone's watching very quickly, maybe cannot blend in conspicuously.

• 12:21Speaker 05

  No, I simply cannot. But it like, it is, it is, it's always nice when something seems to connect with-

• 12:28Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 12:29Speaker 05

  With people like-

• 12:30Griffin Newman?

  I have an opposite approach to my career. I love everything I've been failing.

• 12:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:34Griffin Newman?

  That's always been, I find it very satisfying actually and rewarding. I hate the public enjoying or even watching the things that I'm in.

• 12:44Speaker 05

  I loved Vinyl season two.

• 12:46Griffin Newman?

  Well, it, it, god, it was good.

• 12:50David Sims?

  The scripts?

• 12:51Griffin Newman?

  When the cast all gets together and holds hands and all does our sort of vision- No, I never read the scripts.

• 12:57David Sims?

  Reese Fen's is in Venom 3?

• 12:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes, and it's a little confusing because no one knows if they are acknowledging that he is also in other Sony Spider-Man movies or not.

• 13:09Griffin Newman?

  I mean, at this point, it'll be a settled matter.

• 13:11Speaker 05

  Is he not playing the same character?

• 13:13Griffin Newman?

  That's what's unclear.

• 13:13David Sims?

  He's, it's not specified.

• 13:15Griffin Newman?

  And then some people think that he's secretly playing Null, King of the Symbiotes.

• 13:21David Sims?

  Oh, boy. All right. Well, I'm killing that out again. I, you know, this is, we're entering Carson Daly.

• 13:25Griffin Newman?

  Playing a hippie in the back of a van playing guitar. Listen.

• 13:28Speaker 05

  In our defense, it was more on topic than Carson Daly doing cool.

• 13:33Griffin Newman?

  That's true. That was a year ago.

• 13:36David Sims?

  Yeah, at least it's like a film that's coming out soon.

• 13:39Griffin Newman?

  For how much, Tim, you yell at us in our texts?

• 13:42Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 13:42Griffin Newman?

  And there's a lot of like, guys, I need to get back on the show. And then we'll throw you options and you'll go, eh, direct quote, none of these really get my dick hard.

• 13:51Speaker 05

  Jesus Christ, did I really write that?

• 13:53Griffin Newman?

  Then we'll like kick the can for six months. Then you'll say like, I need to get in an episode right now. We're like, Tim, we're booked up. We'll get back to you the next time there's some options. And then you like shrug off the next options. The two episodes you've gotten to do are The Shining and Jaws.

• 14:07Speaker 05

  I.

• 14:07Griffin Newman?

  I'm not asking you to say thank you, but I'm just saying you have gotten like two of the most totemic American films of all time with no filler.

• 14:17Speaker 05

  I fully understand that this is, I have, I, I don't know how I ended up here. I'm very excited that I ended up here for those two films.

• 14:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:26Speaker 05

  I think it was just more, when I've said those don't get my dick hard, I think it's not that they don't necessarily, or that they wouldn't, but I also am like, I don't know that I have the sort of personal connection to those. And so therefore I wonder if it's ultimately a net negative to have.

• 14:40Griffin Newman?

  New England.

• 14:40David Sims?

  I don't know if the remaining choice is capital letters, get my dick hard, you know?

• 14:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that, there we go, verbatim.

• 14:47David Sims?

  That was it.

• 14:48Griffin Newman?

  Verbatim.

• 14:50Speaker 05

  Um, I will say it is very nice to have friends who let me know that you guys talked about me on the show at some point. But there's always this ellipsis where they pause and then they're like, yeah, they made fun of you because of the way you text.

• 15:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, because we're friends.

• 15:06David Sims?

  Yeah, we're pals. It's really wonderful to be friends with you, Tim.

• 15:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:09Speaker 05

  That's a very nice thing to say. Thank you. It is very wonderful to be friends with both of you.

• 15:12David Sims?

  Yeah. And my wife's watching Nobody Wants This. And then suddenly I'm like, oh, Tim's in this? And then I'm like, you know, I'm like, you know, I know that person. Like I'm friends with him.

• 15:20Griffin Newman?

  You know, he texts me things about his dick and its current status relative to a screenshot of a spreadsheet.

• 15:26David Sims?

  Martin Breast's filmography. Jaws.

• 15:29Griffin Newman?

  Jaws.

• 15:29David Sims?

  Tim.

• 15:30Griffin Newman?

  Jaws, one of the most important movies I've ever made, right?

• 15:32David Sims?

  Yes, to the point that it's sort of like, uh, how do we really talk about it in an interesting way? A blank check episode because even I feel like, uh, sort of casual film fan knows Jaws was the original blockbuster and kind of invented the, the opening weekend and the merchandising and, you know, obviously kickstarted Steven Spielberg's career and.

• 15:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 15:53David Sims?

  But Sharks was big for them.

• 15:55Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 15:55Speaker 05

  Um, I think ultimately.

• 15:56David Sims?

  Oh, the shark didn't work. Oh, no. Did you know that?

• 16:00Griffin Newman?

  Wait a second.

• 16:00David Sims?

  The shark wasn't working.

• 16:01Griffin Newman?

  Is that in the dossier? I haven't heard this before.

• 16:04David Sims?

  They called it Bruce after his lawyer. Did you know that?

• 16:07Speaker 05

  Well, wasn't it ultimately very bad for sharks? Didn't people go around killing sharks after this movie came out?

• 16:13David Sims?

  I can't imagine people, right, that Jaws actually was good news for sharks. I think a lot of things have been bad for sharks, like the presence of humans on our planet.

• 16:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 16:23David Sims?

  Fishing patterns, like things like that, right? Like.

• 16:26Speaker 05

  I think though, after Jaws, and again, this might be in the dossier, this might be one of those things, like it was called Bruce after his lawyer.

• 16:32David Sims?

  Apocryphal, right.

• 16:33Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna do something here in the dossier that this film was directed by Steven Spielberg, which I didn't know before. What were you guys, sorry?

• 16:39Speaker 05

  No bits, though. Even watching it again last night, and I can't, I, I cannot say how many times I've seen it.

• 16:47David Sims?

  So you've seen this film a couple of times.

• 16:48Speaker 05

  I've seen this film many, many times.

• 16:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 16:51Speaker 05

  Every, and even last night, it is still shocking how good it is and how affecting it is.

• 16:56Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing. It's like, it's so discussed in terms of its cultural impact, right? There are all these things around it. But then you also just watching, you're like, perfect movie.

• 17:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:07Griffin Newman?

  It, it's, it's both like.

• 17:09David Sims?

  It's not a film where you can find much fault.

• 17:11Griffin Newman?

  No, and even if it did not have the insane cultural industry redefining impact in several different ways, even if this movie had underperformed upon release, let's say, in some crazy alternate universe, I do still think now, 50 years later, people would be like, oh yeah, masterpiece perfect film. Like it would have gotten there, which already would make it tough to talk about. Um, and I, you know, I put this forth on an episode that will come out three months from now. But it does feel like at three or four different points in his career, Spielberg makes a movie that then the rest of Hollywood's like, fuck, how do we do this?

• 17:51David Sims?

  This is the first time.

• 17:52Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 17:52David Sims?

  That he's doing.

• 17:53Griffin Newman?

  And there's like the immediate wave of shit like Orca and the Deep and three Jaws sequels that everyone basically agrees to just ignore.

• 18:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 18:00Griffin Newman?

  Uh, but then there's also just like, I still think modern movies are trying to take lessons from Jaws.

• 18:10David Sims?

  If they aren't, they should be.

• 18:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 18:12Speaker 05

  But I also feel like, is this one of things, if this, is this one of those things where everybody tries to take a lesson from Jaws, but what they forget to do is make a movie that has the quality of Jaws? And this is like a very specific thing that I was thinking of. The amount of dialogue that overlaps.

• 18:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 18:32Speaker 05

  In this movie. Like, that's one of the amazing things about it. And I feel like in every movie that would try to copy this, they would try to make it too slick. They tried.

• 18:42David Sims?

  Of course.

• 18:42Speaker 05

  They do not have the conversational nature of.

• 18:45Griffin Newman?

  This was my thesis that I was starting to formulate upon the rewatch. Cause this is like, I mean Spielberg's third proper film.

• 18:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 18:54Griffin Newman?

  We're counting Duel.

• 18:55David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 18:56Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and it obviously is this transformative moment for his career and for the industry and what have you. But I also think this is the moment of the full, like synthesizing of this guy, who obviously had this insane, like prodigious ability, right? Just has like a perfect cinema brain. Also kind of synthesizing everything cinema had been up until that moment. Like, I think part of the magic of Spielberg is not just his innate skill and his vision, you know? And his like facility on set and managing complicated productions. And I think him having to work through the struggles of this changes the way he approaches filmmaking for the rest of his life. When people talk about how improvisational he is, how he likes not planning things out in advance and all that sort of stuff.

• 19:41Griffin Newman?

  But I also think like, he's taking things from New Hollywood, from. Hitchcock from the classics of silent cinema. Like he's synthesizing all these things and you look at the eras of, I'll say in particular, American filmmaking up until this point in time. And you're like, this is what's popular. And then a big shift happens and everyone swings this way. And then a big shift happens and everyone swings this way. And he's kind of like circling back and marrying classical stuff with modern stuff. Where like, you know, when MASH comes out in 1970, people are like, that's legal?

• 20:17Griffin Newman?

  People can talk like this? You can't hear what they're saying? They're overlapping? And Spielberg's like, what if I clean that up like 10%? The fact that like Cassavetes was a big mentor to both Spielberg and Scorsese. And he was like stripping everything down to just the fundamentals of performance, writing, you know, breaking down the formalism of blocking and everything. And then those two guys, I think, synthesized the lessons of what he's doing into things that are more conventionally cinematic. And it's like, if you have the rawness of Cassavetes' performance combined with like the sort of humor and the messiness of like Altman

• 20:56Griffin Newman?

  and the naturalism, but then also with like this sort of Hitchcock visual storytelling, like all these things. I think that is why this movie feels like such a miracle, that he's able to put these elements together that we now kind of take for granted. And also, as you said, they are rarely ever done this well again.

• 21:16David Sims?

  Yes. I think a lot, sorry, a few things. One, Jaws is not my movie.

• 21:22Griffin Newman?

  Me neither.

• 21:22David Sims?

  And I don't mean that in a I don't like it way. It's just that, right, it was, I was, it was so totemic by the time I was watching movies. I have seen Jaws a few times. I recognize everything that's good about Jaws, but right, never my movie that I watched over and over again was obsessed with, right?

• 21:36Griffin Newman?

  I really think I didn't see it until I was like 23.

• 21:39David Sims?

  That's somewhat surprising, but I get it.

• 21:41Speaker 05

  I'm also with you. I didn't see it until I was like much older. We were talking about it before about like those things that you miss because they've been parodied or talked Russell off.

• 21:51Griffin Newman?

  You're like, I think I get it.

• 21:51Speaker 05

  I saw it. I saw it. It's dum dum dum dum. And yeah, I saw it. There's a shark.

• 21:55Griffin Newman?

  I had seen all the other totemic Spielberg movies much earlier.

• 21:59David Sims?

  You saw Jaws.

• 22:00Griffin Newman?

  Much more clearly. Yeah.

• 22:02David Sims?

  I think I was also scared of Jaws as a younger boy. Scary.

• 22:06Griffin Newman?

  You hear it from everyone who lived through that movie of like,

• 22:10David Sims?

  Oh my god.

• 22:10Griffin Newman?

  I wouldn't sit on a toilet for five years. I wouldn't go in a swimming pool. You know, people talk about it. It's not like one person said that's an overreaction. It felt like there was a generational trauma around water from Jaws. That like shook people to their core.

• 22:23David Sims?

  Little bit.

• 22:24Griffin Newman?

  Little bit.

• 22:25David Sims?

  And then so Jurassic Park is my sort of Spielberg creature feature that I grew up with. Jesus Christ. Ben just knocked over a gigantic block. It was so loud.

• 22:34Griffin Newman?

  Ben, can we sidebar for a second?

• 22:36Speaker 03

  What?

• 22:36Griffin Newman?

  You gotta get it together.

• 22:37David Sims?

  Do you need some cold plunges or something?

• 22:39Griffin Newman?

  Take the cap off the pen.

• 22:42Speaker 03

  I'm fine.

• 22:43Griffin Newman?

  You're a home run here. We need it. This is the Jaws episode.

• 22:47David Sims?

  Now, how long?

• 22:48Griffin Newman?

  You're our MVP.

• 22:48David Sims?

  Jurassic Park is-

• 22:49Speaker 03

  I just knocked over a giant block.

• 22:51David Sims?

  Jurassic Park is actually two minutes shorter than Jaws.

• 22:55Griffin Newman?

  Wild.

• 22:55David Sims?

  Which is surprising when I say that out loud.

• 22:57Griffin Newman?

  Jurassic Park feels-

• 22:58David Sims?

  Like that feels like this movie with a lot of acts and sort of-

• 23:02Griffin Newman?

  Oh, you think Jurassic feels longer than Jaws?

• 23:05David Sims?

  I do.

• 23:06Griffin Newman?

  I feel the opposite way. The thing that's surprising to me is that they're the same-

• 23:10David Sims?

  They're about the same. They're just a little over two hours each.

• 23:12Griffin Newman?

  But Jaws is so much more patiently paced.

• 23:15David Sims?

  It is.

• 23:15Griffin Newman?

  And has such more kind of like rhythms like the waves of the ocean.

• 23:20David Sims?

  It does.

• 23:21Griffin Newman?

  Whereas Jurassic Park is very propulsive.

• 23:23David Sims?

  It is, but Jurassic Park has a slow build to make a propulsion.

• 23:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 23:28David Sims?

  And is all about the kind of like whatever sort of capitalist, you know, sort of machinery around this. And Jaws has all those elements-

• 23:37Griffin Newman?

  As well.

• 23:37David Sims?

  In a simpler-

• 23:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 23:39David Sims?

  Fashion-

• 23:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 23:40David Sims?

  That's not really being like thrown at you. Like you can just sort of like engage with it very quickly. And do I like, like Jaws, Jaws, it's just economy with Jaws, which you admire.

• 23:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 23:50David Sims?

  And yet I'm more used to the big-

• 23:52Griffin Newman?

  But then you're also like the amount of like hangout movie in this.

• 23:54David Sims?

  It is a big hangout movie with just a couple of sort of, well, more than a couple, several exciting sequences.

• 24:00Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 24:00David Sims?

  Yes.

• 24:01Griffin Newman?

  There's no-

• 24:01David Sims?

  Go ahead.

• 24:02Griffin Newman?

  I haven't seen Jurassic Park in a little while, but it also kind of feels like the kind of stuff that's in Jaws. When you think about summer blockbusters, the fact that there's just a moment where they like have a glass of whiskey and they say like, you want to get drunk and fool around?

• 24:18David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 24:18Griffin Newman?

  Like, that probably wouldn't, is that's not in Jurassic Park? Cause it feels like that would get skipped over.

• 24:24David Sims?

  Yes.

• 24:25Griffin Newman?

  I agree, which I

• 24:27David Sims?

  Jurassic Park is making the same decision Jaws makes, the wise decision of like, we don't need a movie star.

• 24:33Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 24:33David Sims?

  We need like, good, interesting, you know, the thespians, character actor-y guys.

• 24:39Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 24:41David Sims?

  I mean, it's very obvious to compare those two movies. It's just, we watch them back to back.

• 24:47Griffin Newman?

  And in terms of reporting, but also, I mean, and I make this point, the Jurassic episode coming out fucking two and a half years from now, but they both have the sort of like id ego, super ego thing with their main trio. Which I don't, this is not the first thing to do that, you know, I think that's so much the success of like, the original Star Trek and everything. But this thing of like, cast three interesting actors, who are not the types of guys you expect to put in something like this.

• 25:15David Sims?

  Right.

• 25:15Griffin Newman?

  And then have them basically represent the contradictory and complementary sides of a psyche. In addressing a problem that feels massive. Yeah.

• 25:27David Sims?

  Just leave. It's like, no, no, stay, stay, stays. No, I'm saying like, in Martha's, just get out of there.

• 25:32Griffin Newman?

  That's my response.

• 25:33David Sims?

  Just like, take the summer off.

• 25:34Griffin Newman?

  Tim's burning to say something.

• 25:35David Sims?

  Yeah, go ahead.

• 25:36Speaker 05

  Well, no, I think that's a great read, but I mean, I think the first thing that I was like, is this a good time to talk about Roy Scheider?

• 25:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 25:43Speaker 05

  As a movie star, like as, because?

• 25:45David Sims?

  If you want to, I mean, like, we can build to Roy if you want.

• 25:48Griffin Newman?

  Here are two previous Roy Scheider episodes. Last Embrace.

• 25:52David Sims?

  Sure, which he's good in, in my memory.

• 25:53Griffin Newman?

  He is, and is a somewhat forgotten Jonathan Demme movie, but is kind of, in a lot of ways, very emblematic of a lot of Roy Scheider's post-Jaws career.

• 26:03David Sims?

  What a Roy Scheider, right, movie was.

• 26:04Griffin Newman?

  The kind of classic Roy Scheider thriller.

• 26:07David Sims?

  Somewhat thinky, dark thriller, yes.

• 26:09Griffin Newman?

  That he kind of owned that lane.

• 26:10David Sims?

  It was good.

• 26:10Griffin Newman?

  And then All That Jazz.

• 26:12David Sims?

  Well, that's just sort of like a, that same year as Last Embrace, that's a big totemic performance.

• 26:16Griffin Newman?

  And I think it's his best performance, and it's such surprising casting.

• 26:19David Sims?

  It would be almost anyone's best performance, right.

• 26:21Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 26:22David Sims?

  But no.

• 26:23Griffin Newman?

  This is fascinating. It is so weird that Roy Scheider is the star, the insensible star of Jaws.

• 26:29Speaker 05

  Yes, and I also, for as many huge and unbelievable things that he's done, and I'm such a huge Roy Scheider fan.

• 26:36David Sims?

  Me too.

• 26:36Speaker 05

  That. It does, every time I see that he's the lead of it, it is like, why wasn't this man the biggest movie star?

• 26:44Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 26:44David Sims?

  But he was a big movie star.

• 26:46Griffin Newman?

  But that's the other thing, it's not like his legacy is, he was the star of Jaws and he fucked it up. Like, it's not like, oh, he didn't become a movie star because something went wrong. You look and you're like, he was above the title, the lead in movies for like 15 consecutive years.

• 26:59Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 26:59Griffin Newman?

  But certainly, Robert Shaw is dead within three years of this movie coming out, and Richard Dreyfuss kind of has the career you maybe expected Roy Scheider would have had as a post-Jaws bump.

• 27:09Speaker 05

  Well, I would, I wonder, and I, like, watching the things that Roy Scheider does.

• 27:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 27:15Speaker 05

  I wonder if a part of that is, he plays the movie he is in rather than trying to bring a star persona to it.

• 27:24Griffin Newman?

  I think that is right.

• 27:25Speaker 05

  And I think that there is, maybe that's something of why, of like, he doesn't make the movie about him, he's like, how do I fit in to make this movie better while also using the things that are sort of naturally magnetic about his own personality?

• 27:38Griffin Newman?

  David's doing deep math on Scheider.

• 27:39David Sims?

  I just want to pause you on Scheider just because I feel like we should discuss that he wasn't the first choice. Well, I just feel like, let's have more Scheider discussion.

• 27:46Speaker 05

  Great.

• 27:47David Sims?

  When we're in the dossier.

• 27:48Griffin Newman?

  A side of Scheider later.

• 27:49David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 27:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 27:50David Sims?

  But I do love Roy Scheider, obviously.

• 27:51Speaker 05

  I heard you guys got Regal to sponsor The Side of Scheider?

• 27:54David Sims?

  Yeah, Regal, actually, we've switched them over to that.

• 27:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 27:58David Sims?

  And a lot of episodes, it's just gonna be dormant.

• 28:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. We're, I've got an email, Regal is suing us?

• 28:03David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, obviously, this is Roy Scheider's second best aquatic, uh, sort of thing after Seaquest DSV.

• 28:10Griffin Newman?

  But to that point, Seaquest DSV was produced by Spielberg, was it not?

• 28:15David Sims?

  I believe so, yeah.

• 28:16Griffin Newman?

  And kind of seemed like Spielberg doing a favor for Roy Scheider, where it's like, you know what, I'm gonna give you incredible syndication money.

• 28:22David Sims?

  Right, I mean, I think probably didn't turn out to be, but that was the hope.

• 28:26Griffin Newman?

  That was the hope.

• 28:27David Sims?

  Yes.

• 28:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 28:28David Sims?

  And that was also, right, in the 90s, it's like, you know what, Roy, you've, you've become the and guy on a TV show.

• 28:33Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 28:34David Sims?

  Like, that's what you can do.

• 28:34Griffin Newman?

  But versus, like, you know, it, it's just interesting that by the 90s, Roy Scheider was not at living legend status.

• 28:42David Sims?

  Yes.

• 28:43Griffin Newman?

  And I think even when he passed away, and he kept working until his death, there was this sort of feeling of like, oh, right, Roy Scheider's still alive. And you're like, this guy's in like four of the most important movies ever made.

• 28:55David Sims?

  Yes, like, maybe we should save this for Side of Scheider, but Side of Scheider, but, but yes, you're 100% right that he didn't sort of have that sort of late career up on a pedestal. This is one of our best movie stars we've ever had, and I feel like we need to start putting our arms around the fact that that is true.

• 29:12Griffin Newman?

  I think he is very, very beloved by our generation of cinephile, and I think for the reason you just so specifically and eloquently laid out. I mean, there was the fucking Nighthawk trivia, which is the great, for my mind, the best movie trivia here in Brooklyn, went last year, the Halloween installment, and they did a costume contest, and there was a group of five Scheiders that were all perfectly dressed, and the audience was just kind of like bowled over.

• 29:42David Sims?

  And, but they got it.

• 29:43Griffin Newman?

  And it wasn't just the costumes were good, but it, seeing five people dressed as different versions of Roy Scheider next to each other, you're like, God, his career was fucking incredible.

• 29:51David Sims?

  So, what, French Connection, Jaws, Sorcerer, what, 2010? And All That Jazz?

• 29:56Griffin Newman?

  Maybe, maybe that's what it was, maybe it was four.

• 29:59David Sims?

  Did somebody try to throw in like some 7-ups or something? Fucking.

• 30:03Griffin Newman?

  Weirdly, there was someone dressed as Orlando Jones, the 7-Up guy.

• 30:07David Sims?

  Make 7-Up yours new. I was dressed up as Cool Spot, but that's.

• 30:11Griffin Newman?

  But I do think it's that thing of like, if you just narrow the things down, you're like, incredible, and then you're like, the sort of forgotten B-movies of Roy Scheider are the exact kind of thing we all bemoan don't happen today.

• 30:22David Sims?

  Right, you watch any of those and you're like, well, this rocks.

• 30:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:26David Sims?

  So, Jaws, yeah, so I, I think I watched this movie when I was about 10 or 11 on VHS.

• 30:30Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 30:31David Sims?

  It was like, at a house I was staying in, I watched it, and I remember finding it scary.

• 30:36Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 30:37David Sims?

  And then, as, yes, and then as I loop back around to like, now I understand more things about Steven Spielberg and movies, and you know, I watched this probably again. As a teen, later teenager, and I sort of developed that opinion of like, well, right, it's just so pure and impressive and, you know, this is the kind of stripped down thing that even he can't achieve anymore.

• 30:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:58David Sims?

  And then I've seen it like a couple of times since then, and every time I watched it, I had that reaction of, yeah, this is very impressive.

• 31:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 31:04David Sims?

  But it's not like, people are obsessed with Jaws in a way that I probably can't be.

• 31:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 31:09David Sims?

  Won't happen.

• 31:09Griffin Newman?

  No, that's, that's how I feel too.

• 31:11David Sims?

  But I've never seen any of the sequels.

• 31:13Griffin Newman?

  A perfect masterpiece, me neither.

• 31:14David Sims?

  Because they're not supposed to be good.

• 31:16Speaker 05

  Right. I believe, I was just at like a dinner party in the neighborhood a couple of weeks ago, and we were playing like one of those word association games.

• 31:22Griffin Newman?

  Humble brag.

• 31:23Speaker 05

  And I think, guys, I don't want to fucking brag, I think it's called Clover.

• 31:26Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 31:27Speaker 05

  Um, where you have like, these two things together, you have to find a common word, and then like the other team gets the cards, and they have to put the cards together.

• 31:35Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 31:35Speaker 05

  Using the clues from the common word. And one of the common words was Jaws 2, and it was like, fish child? Which is apparently a thing in the later movies.

• 31:46David Sims?

  Yeah, it's a, I believe in Jaws, the revenge, one of them is basically implies that the son or mother of Jaws is mad about what happened to Jaws.

• 31:55Griffin Newman?

  Yes, right.

• 31:55David Sims?

  Right, it may, it tries to like imply like an emotional.

• 31:59Griffin Newman?

  This time it's personal.

• 32:00David Sims?

  Correct.

• 32:01Griffin Newman?

  One of the greatest taglines of all time, which I think is.

• 32:03David Sims?

  For a movie that sucks.

• 32:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 32:04David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 32:04Griffin Newman?

  Cause 2 is just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

• 32:07David Sims?

  Which is also a good tagline.

• 32:08Griffin Newman?

  All of the Jaws taglines are incredible. It's fascinating for how much the other three movies are kind of like, gentlemen's agreement, we all will ignore them unless we just want to revel in trash, that all four have like totemic, perfect taglines.

• 32:21David Sims?

  Can you tell me what 3Ds is?

• 32:22Griffin Newman?

  That's what I'm trying to remember.

• 32:23David Sims?

  The 3Ds is the least impressive. The Revenge is, this time is personal.

• 32:26Griffin Newman?

  It's something like Terror in a new dimension.

• 32:28David Sims?

  It's, uh, the third dimension is terror.

• 32:31Griffin Newman?

  I do think that's good.

• 32:32Speaker 05

  Which is not bad. That's, that's pretty good.

• 32:34Griffin Newman?

  And I think, I do think 3D movies, when they had their big surge in the 2010s, were often doing taglines riffing on that.

• 32:42David Sims?

  Well, it's in the same era as Friday the 13th Part 3, which had the tagline, a new dimension in terror. And, yeah, Amity Phil 3D, which I like this tagline, warning, in this movie, you are the victim.

• 32:55Griffin Newman?

  That's.

• 32:56David Sims?

  Which is a good tagline, although it sort of also implies like, this movie is so bad, it will victimize you.

• 33:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 33:04David Sims?

  Jaws.

• 33:05Griffin Newman?

  Jaws.

• 33:06Speaker 05

  But yes, I want to say.

• 33:07Griffin Newman?

  The sequels mostly become the, the family of Jaws hunting down the family of Brody.

• 33:12Speaker 05

  Right, yes. So one thing that every time I watch, I understand what you're saying when you're like, this isn't my movie. But every time I watch it, I am like, oh, this should be everybody's movie.

• 33:24David Sims?

  Sure. And you're right, it should be.

• 33:26Speaker 05

  It is shocking, even last night.

• 33:29David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 33:29Speaker 05

  How, remembering how horrifying most of these, how horrifying and still truly scary these moments are. Like, the one in the pond where the guy gets his leg bitten off. Like, we watched this with our kids a couple summers ago in that mindset of like, oh, we haven't seen Jaws in a while. We'll watch it with the family. And when Shaw gets eaten, our young children turned to look at us in this way of,

• 33:57David Sims?

  How could you be showing us this?

• 33:58Speaker 05

  How could you do this to us?

• 34:00David Sims?

  This is too much.

• 34:00Speaker 05

  They both started sobbing. One of them ran upstairs and hid under the covers. And the other one put all the pillows from the couch on top of them. It is still incredibly affecting and horrifying.

• 34:15Griffin Newman?

  What's fascinating about it too is there is like no viscera. There is a lot of blood.

• 34:20David Sims?

  There's blood, there's liquid.

• 34:21Griffin Newman?

  But like, you're like, the guy's clearly got blood capsules in his mouth that he like activates and then starts spitting blood. And then there's a lot of blood everywhere on the boat that's getting mushed in with the water. So it's just kind of red water everywhere. But like, the, for the, the viscerality of the moment.

• 34:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:40Griffin Newman?

  It's easy in your mind's eye to be like, and then you see him ripped in half and his intestines are spinning around or whatever. It is so much more impactful than any kill like that.

• 34:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:50David Sims?

  Well, it's also like, it's intense and it's crazy and Shaw like nails it so hard and it's scary. But then it's also like, you know, the moment where you are most of all, if you settle down like, oh, right, this is clearly like this fucking giant puppet they could barely use that's sort of going like, ah.

• 35:08Griffin Newman?

  Not only that, the only shot in the movie where I think the shark.

• 35:11David Sims?

  Yes. Where, you know, Martin Lando is like putting the tentacles around himself going like, ah, no. Like, it's much better than that, but like, you, you can see Shaw is like, I'm gonna have to fucking make this work.

• 35:21Griffin Newman?

  For how notoriously the shark didn't work. The only shot where I think the shark looks bad is in that sequence.

• 35:27David Sims?

  Where it lands on the boat and you're like, you can tell like, this is not an organic thing. Right?

• 35:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 35:33Speaker 05

  But I will also say-

• 35:34David Sims?

  But that makes it scary in a weird way.

• 35:36Speaker 05

  His, his performance of how much he doesn't want to get eaten by the shark, and I know that this seems reductive.

• 35:45Speaker 05

  That his performance of that moment is so good and so, his, he is so terrified. And after everything that you've heard, you can't believe it's going that way. It's so, it's still so effective that I wasn't even thinking about looking for the shark not working.

• 36:00David Sims?

  No, no, go ahead, Griff. You say one thing.

• 36:02Griffin Newman?

  Every time I watch this, I'm like, how did Sean not win the Oscar? And then I remember, fuck, he wasn't even nominated. And it feels like a Mandela effect thing of like, how is that possible?

• 36:11David Sims?

  Well, this film was largely-

• 36:11Griffin Newman?

  History must have been rewritten at some point.

• 36:13David Sims?

  Snubbed by the Oscars. He is my winner for Best Supporting Actor, though, I'll tell you that much.

• 36:17Griffin Newman?

  I feel like a slam dunk.

• 36:19Speaker 05

  This might be, is this, because again, this is like a film history blind spot for me. To me, watching him in this, this feels like one of the best film performances that has ever been. Am I overrating this?

• 36:32David Sims?

  Let me give you the five nominees.

• 36:34Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 36:34Griffin Newman?

  They're, they're not bad, but they're weird, I would say.

• 36:38David Sims?

  George Burns, one for the Sunshine Boys. Of course, we recently talked about George Burns on Going in Style.

• 36:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 36:44David Sims?

  Brad Durif was the nominee from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I feel like there's various people in that ensemble, obviously, who are impressive. He is the, you know, maybe the standout.

• 36:52Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 36:54David Sims?

  Burgess Meredith in The Day of the Locust, kind of an awesome.

• 36:57Griffin Newman?

  I've never seen it. I probably would love that movie. Oh, I love Burgess, legendary stick man.

• 37:01David Sims?

  Chris Sarandon in Dog Day Afternoon, another movie where you're kind of like, multitude of options here.

• 37:07Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 37:08Speaker 05

  Wait, it wasn't?

• 37:09David Sims?

  John Cazale.

• 37:10Griffin Newman?

  Or Durning.

• 37:10David Sims?

  Yeah. Who are both amazing.

• 37:12Griffin Newman?

  But I think it was the sort of like, issue point of, oh, this performance brings like, respect to the trans community at a time where that was not done.

• 37:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:23Griffin Newman?

  Pushed him over the edge. But I would certainly nominate Cazale or Durning over him.

• 37:26David Sims?

  Jack Warden in Shampoo, who like, I'm never gonna be mad at a Jack Warden performance getting nominated.

• 37:34David Sims?

  I don't have him nominated. I have, right, Robert Shaw, John Cazale. Danny DeVito and Brad Dourif from Cuckoo's Nest and then Keith Carradine from Nashville. A performance I love. And Nashville is another movie where like, there's a bunch of performances there.

• 37:47Griffin Newman?

  So I would nominate Henry Gibson for Nashville.

• 37:48David Sims?

  Sure.

• 37:49Griffin Newman?

  I would nominate Kazal. I would nominate fucking Shaw and I'd give him win. Yeah.

• 37:54David Sims?

  I have Shaw winning.

• 37:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 37:56Speaker 05

  Am I, am I generally overrating the historical significance of this performance?

• 38:02David Sims?

  Jaws was snubbed by the Oscars. The, I mean, like, it got a Best Picture nomination and three tech noms. It won all three technical awards. Spielberg was snubbed. There was a very obvious, like, no, no. New Hollywood is happening right now. We are not indulging this, like, commercial stuff. This monster movie, this, like, sort of elevated monster movie, but that's all that is. The five nominees for Best Picture, it is one of the most outstanding fields. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Barry Lyndon, Dog Day Afternoon, Jaws, and Nashville.

• 38:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I mean, it's like a flooring, like, where you're looking at that and you're like, the worst movie nominated is One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

• 38:34David Sims?

  A movie that I think is good. Like, it's not, I don't think that movie has the same staying power as the other four. And obviously, it won Best Picture.

• 38:43Griffin Newman?

  Here's why I find it surprising. For everything you're saying.

• 38:48David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 38:48Griffin Newman?

  It is like an era where people are getting nominations for Irwin Allen films.

• 38:54David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 38:55Griffin Newman?

  You know, like, you have fucking, like, Airport and Towering Inferno and a fucking Poseidon Adventure acting nominations. It's not like they're beyond this. I also think he's, like, borderline at legend status at this point. Obviously, George Burns has 50 years on him.

• 39:13David Sims?

  He's not a legend, but he's a very respected British actor.

• 39:17Griffin Newman?

  And writer.

• 39:18David Sims?

  Likes a bit of a tipple.

• 39:19Griffin Newman?

  Sure. They, obviously, no one could have predicted that he'd be dead within three years and that in retrospect, they definitely should have given him this. But this is also coming, the two years prior to this are The Sting and Pelham 123. The guy's on a fucking heater run.

• 39:34David Sims?

  But, like, obviously, The Sting, he's great in that, but...

• 39:37Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 39:37Speaker 05

  We've been getting into caper movies in the house, like, so I showed, we have a thing where we do, like, Papa Movie Nights. David, this is something you're able to look forward to.

• 39:47David Sims?

  That's nice.

• 39:47Speaker 05

  It is really nice. It's like where I pick a movie that they would never pick.

• 39:51David Sims?

  Right.

• 39:51Speaker 05

  And then ultimately, they end up loving it.

• 39:54Griffin Newman?

  Every other week is rad.

• 39:56Speaker 05

  Every, just every week, it's rad. Hey, guys, we're doing this again.

• 39:59Griffin Newman?

  My guy loves a rad.

• 40:00Speaker 05

  So, but recently, we've sort of, we've gotten into, like, I want to introduce them to caper movies. So we started with The Sting. And they did enjoy it. I do think pacing wise.

• 40:11David Sims?

  This thing's pretty boring.

• 40:13Speaker 05

  No offense. I mean, like, I love it, and I do think it's something that they'll come back to appreciating more.

• 40:18Griffin Newman?

  You have to be a dork like us, watching it with a sense of context.

• 40:21David Sims?

  It's like a fun dad movie, but I remember the first time I saw this thing as a teenager. With that kind of setup of like, damn, this is, this was like a huge fucking movie.

• 40:29Speaker 05

  And people being like, this movie's so much fun.

• 40:31David Sims?

  And you're like, oh, okay, yeah, that's fun.

• 40:33Speaker 05

  They definitely were into, the next one we watched was Ocean's Eleven. So like, getting them, and so obviously like that.

• 40:42David Sims?

  It's a film with a more modern storytelling.

• 40:43Speaker 05

  A more modern storytelling, but it is really funny watching those kind of movies.

• 40:46David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 05

  With kids that age, because they are like, wait, is that true? Wait, are they really not friends now?

• 40:51Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 40:52Speaker 05

  Wait, is this a part of the thing? Like, you know what I'm just watching?

• 40:55David Sims?

  The cons, they're like, oh shit, they got me.

• 40:58Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 41:01David Sims?

  Tell them one, two, three was, I think, a modest hit.

• 41:04Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 41:05David Sims?

  But that movie's cult reputation grew in later years. He's so good.

• 41:09Griffin Newman?

  The guy, I'm just saying, his career was like.

• 41:12David Sims?

  His great career.

• 41:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Sometimes you have that thing where you're like, why'd this person win for this? And you step back and you're like, oh, the four years leading up to this performance, the guy got kind of undeniable, or he was overdue, or whatever it was. Shaw was kind of perfectly positioned in every way, other than, I think you're right. It was like, the level of success of Jaws kind of scared them.

• 41:34David Sims?

  We don't need to give this awards. We have other things to bestow awards on. We are currently in this, you know, phase where we are really recognizing, like, challenging Hollywood productions.

• 41:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 41:45David Sims?

  And Jaws is not one of them.

• 41:47Speaker 05

  I don't wanna.

• 41:48David Sims?

  Spielberg famously was snubbed for Fellini.

• 41:50Griffin Newman?

  Have you seen this video, Tim?

• 41:52David Sims?

  We can talk about it in the dossier, but Spielberg had a camera on him when the nominations were announced, assuming he was about to get an Oscar nomination.

• 41:59Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 41:59David Sims?

  And so there is footage of him going, I mean, you can see it's on YouTube, right? It's widely available. Where they realize it's not happening, and he's like, they're Fellini! They gave it to Fellini! Fellini is the sort of.

• 42:09Griffin Newman?

  I got beaten by Fellini, is what he keeps saying.

• 42:12David Sims?

  For Amarcord, was the surprise fifth nominee and director.

• 42:16Speaker 05

  Was.

• 42:17David Sims?

  Otherwise, it's Milos Forman, Stanley Kubrick, Stedley Lumet, and Robert Altman.

• 42:21Griffin Newman?

  I think everyone was predicting that he was the fifth and those four were locked.

• 42:25Speaker 05

  What is the sense of how he's saying it? Does it make him look upset?

• 42:29David Sims?

  He's trying to save face.

• 42:31Griffin Newman?

  He's like wearing Jaws merch. He's in his home that has like a Pac-Man cabinet. Like it's clear like this overgrown child just made the biggest hit movie and now lives in a toy palace. And is his own biggest fan and is like feeling his shit. And he's surrounded by friends who are hyping him up. And I believe the video starts with them being like, we're here with Steven Spielberg, who's about to get his first Oscar nomination.

• 42:52David Sims?

  He's 29 years old.

• 42:55Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 42:56David Sims?

  Uh, look, the Steven Spielberg story, let's, I'm opening the dossier.

• 42:59Griffin Newman?

  He goes from being kinda shocked and mock outraged to then at some point settling in being like, you know what, if I'm gonna get beaten, Fellini is.

• 43:07David Sims?

  Right.

• 43:07Griffin Newman?

  And then he's sort of like, it got an Oscar for Best Picture. It is crazy. Like in real time, you see him getting a little humbled. But he starts out hot.

• 43:15David Sims?

  And just, it's 1976, so like putting a camera on you. It's not like people now where it's like, yeah, sure, turn your iPhone on.

• 43:21Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 43:22David Sims?

  It's like someone had to like have a fucking camera.

• 43:24Griffin Newman?

  It's a big performance.

• 43:25David Sims?

  Anyway.

• 43:26Griffin Newman?

  There's three point light.

• 43:26Speaker 05

  Well, I don't, I don't want to move, uh, the Shawshank up in the, I don't know that like this is like where we talk about Robert Shaw.

• 43:34David Sims?

  Oh, Robert Shaw. No, wait, all right, you relax.

• 43:36Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 43:38David Sims?

  Giving us all these actor segments. We're gonna get to Shaw in a second.

• 43:40Griffin Newman?

  And when are we gonna get dry fussy?

• 43:42David Sims?

  It's not, let's just not.

• 43:43Griffin Newman?

  You don't want to put your whole full dry fussy into it?

• 43:45David Sims?

  I'll tell you who puts his whole dry fussy into things.

• 43:47Griffin Newman?

  Richard?

• 43:48David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 43:48Griffin Newman?

  Dicky?

• 43:53Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 43:54David Sims?

  Yes. Mmm. Is that the Cine's cow?

• 43:59Griffin Newman?

  The Cine's cow is back.

• 44:00David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 44:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 44:06David Sims?

  Okay.

• 44:07Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 44:11David Sims?

  Wow.

• 44:12Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 44:14David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up while you, while you tell the, the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 44:21Griffin Newman?

  Well, MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what MUBI does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 44:32David Sims?

  Yes.

• 44:33Griffin Newman?

  One of my favorite movies of the year.

• 44:34David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 44:35Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 44:41David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 44:42Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburg, Past and Future Guest.

• 44:44David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest.

• 44:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 44:49David Sims?

  Great friend.

• 44:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 44:51David Sims?

  This movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 44:55Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 44:56David Sims?

  Legends, and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 44:58Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 44:59David Sims?

  Friend of the show, Zach Cherry.

• 45:01Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 45:02David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 45:03Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 45:04David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. It won the Queer Paul McCann. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like, it obviously has, it was out in theaters this summer and now it's on movie.

• 45:14Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays the filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 45:29David Sims?

  Yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 45:33Griffin Newman?

  What happens?

• 45:35Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 45:45David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on movie and you can try movie free for 30 days at movie.com slash blank check. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 45:57Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 46:07Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 46:08David Sims?

  Yes.

• 46:08Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 46:29David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania.

• 46:40David Sims?

  Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 46:49Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 47:05David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Ashkery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen to Dracula.

• 47:40David Sims?

  David?

• 47:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes?

• 47:41David Sims?

  Uh oh.

• 47:42Griffin Newman?

  It's November.

• 47:43David Sims?

  Ah!

• 47:45Griffin Newman?

  And you know what that means, the old stereotype about November.

• 47:48David Sims?

  Turkeys?

• 47:48Griffin Newman?

  One long sprint to the finish line.

• 47:50David Sims?

  Oh, of course.

• 47:52Griffin Newman?

  Packed schedule, questionable food choices, and somehow a social calendar that got way fuller than you planned. And I ain't talking about Sam Fuller. We're not covering him yet in the podcast.

• 48:00David Sims?

  No, although maybe we should.

• 48:01Griffin Newman?

  We might get there eventually.

• 48:03David Sims?

  I can't remember. Big red one. We could call it the Big Red Podcast.

• 48:06Griffin Newman?

  Listen, when things get complicated, not when life is easy, when you got time for a whole routine. Right now, when everything is full and something has to give one scoop, cold water every morning before anything else, as I like to say, scoop there it is.

• 48:19David Sims?

  You do like to say that every morning you text me scoop there it is. And that means I now know that you had your AG1.

• 48:26Griffin Newman?

  And I'm awake.

• 48:27David Sims?

  Uh, but yeah, you're, I know you're, you're a daily AG1 user and it's basically the, uh, the glue that holds your internal organs together at this point.

• 48:35Griffin Newman?

  It's not just marketing. AG1 Next Gen is backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials, not weekend a study.

• 48:43David Sims?

  Thank you for that voice.

• 48:43Griffin Newman?

  Four independent studies with key nutrient levels improved within three months of consistent use. This is the thing I like about AG1. They're not resting on their laurels. They constantly work to better themselves.

• 48:55David Sims?

  Um, yes, AG1, they've got now AG1 Pro.

• 48:59Griffin Newman?

  For the professionals.

• 49:00David Sims?

  Same daily drink now with the performance and recovery layer built in. So you've got five grams of Cre vitalis, a premium German made creatine monohydrate, and one of the most studied compounds in sports science, plus CAHMB for muscle production and zinc carnosine for gut support.

• 49:18Griffin Newman?

  Thank God.

• 49:19David Sims?

  Next gen is the foundation pro adds what your body needs to recover.

• 49:23Griffin Newman?

  You might be having some big meals this November. AG1 is what you need to keep your gut in check. Keep things, as I like to put it, regular.

• 49:31David Sims?

  Yes. So for a limited time, visit drink AG1.com slash check and get a free immune support bundle, including omega three, fish oil and vitamin D three plus K two with your first subscription of AG1 next gen or AG1 Pro. That's drink AG1.com slash check. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Belank check send you.

• 50:01David Sims?

  I just, before I open the dossier, I want to read this review that I just found. Somehow I never saw this movie and decided that I need to see a big, old, wet shark boy attack dumb teens. And that's exactly what I got. And also it was a reminder of how cool the ocean is as far as ecosystems go. Something that's been bringing me comfort during this whole crisis is I just think about how right now there's an octopus just doing some fluttery moves or stingray is just chilling at the bottom of the ocean.

• 50:28Griffin Newman?

  It's interesting to voice, I would say whoever wrote this might be our finest living film critic.

• 50:31David Sims?

  Just wanted to, so Ben, you first saw Jaws in early COVID.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true.

• 50:37David Sims?

  Because you logged in on Letterboxd. You had like two weeks where you're like, I'm going to log like America's finest poetry on Letterboxd. And then you clearly were like, all right, enough of that. Like stop doing it.

• 50:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, pretty much lost interest.

• 50:46Griffin Newman?

  Briefly were in the running to actually become the poet laureate of America.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know. I should have maybe stuck with it, but I did see it for the first time and I was totally shocked by how effective it was.

• 51:01David Sims?

  Right.

• 51:02Speaker 03

  And how much it continues to just be like a like incredible film that like is scary.

• 51:10David Sims?

  What about stingrays fluttering at the bottom of the ocean though?

• 51:14Speaker 03

  Thinking about it right now.

• 51:15David Sims?

  Pretty cool.

• 51:15Speaker 05

  I feel like the, is the octopus fluttering?

• 51:17David Sims?

  Yeah, the octopus is fluttering.

• 51:18Speaker 05

  The octopus.

• 51:19David Sims?

  You know, stingrays flutter too. They got that kind of like wavy thing going on.

• 51:22Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, on the very edges.

• 51:23Griffin Newman?

  They, they did a, a 3D remaster of this that I thought was very expertly done. And I, uh, said this about, uh, or I will say this about Jurassic Park as well. The two earlier Spielberg movies that have been post-converted to 3D. Uh, that unsurprisingly, Spielberg's shooting style and filmmaking rhythms are very well suited for 3D, more so than most filmmakers who try to intentionally make 3D movies. Um, and watching it in 3D in a theater for the first time, never having seen it on a screen, did help sort of like activate Jaws for me a little of making it feel new and experiential and place me a little into like what it would feel like to see Jaws for the first time, even though it was in some weird new version.

• 52:04Griffin Newman?

  But that re-release, I think, happened in 2021. I want to say it was summer 2021. They put Jaws and ET both back in theaters when they were like, we don't really have many summer blockbusters.

• 52:15David Sims?

  2022.

• 52:16Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Um, but COVID was recent enough.

• 52:20David Sims?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:21Griffin Newman?

  And Ben, you were watching this early lockdown. I do find in a lot of ways, I don't know, and I'm, I'm not looking forward to seeing people try, any movie will ever actually capture the energy of the, uh, COVID crisis, the way that Jaws does. I think the whole fucking story of reopening the beach and the mayor and the pressures and the concerns, seeing in 2022, I was like, holy fucking shit. The amount of stuff this movie gets right about how people react in situations like this, still 50 years later feels dead on.

• 52:59Speaker 05

  Especially the moment where it's not just the mayor saying, we've got to stay open.

• 53:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 53:05Speaker 05

  This is the economy.

• 53:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 53:07Speaker 05

  When he goes up to the person that works for him and is like, why aren't you in the water?

• 53:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 53:13Speaker 05

  And that person has to go get in the water when the mayor himself is not going to get in the water. That was, I think, the moment where I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and agree with you on that one.

• 53:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 53:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:24David Sims?

  Steven Spielberg's debut film was called The Sugarland Express. It was well received by critics, did well at the Cannes Film Festival, felt that just the one.

• 53:32Griffin Newman?

  Pauline Kael put her chips down on him very quickly.

• 53:35David Sims?

  But it didn't really make a lot of money. And it didn't really sort of alter his career in any particular way.

• 53:45David Sims?

  But so he wants to make, it's interesting, I did not know this. The next movie he wanted to make after Sugarland was The Taking of Pelham 123.

• 53:56Griffin Newman?

  The Taking JJ.

• 53:58David Sims?

  And United Artists, Universal Artists, sorry, called the film director proof and went with Joseph Sargent. Given Joseph Sargent's career, which is kind of workman like.

• 54:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 54:08David Sims?

  They're kind of were right.

• 54:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 54:10David Sims?

  Like, that's one of my favorite movies of all time, and I've never been kind of like, and it's because of Joseph Sargent. Like, even though there's nothing, he did everything right.

• 54:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 54:18David Sims?

  But it's really just a perfect concept, perfectly executed, perfect cast.

• 54:22Griffin Newman?

  Sargent's one of those classic, if you give him all the right elements, he will nail it. Which isn't to say that the movie directed itself.

• 54:28David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 54:28Griffin Newman?

  But you're like, he's probably not a guy who can make something out of anything.

• 54:32David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 54:33Griffin Newman?

  But like, given a slam dunk script and a perfect cast and whatever, yeah.

• 54:38David Sims?

  So then another movie he wants to work on is MacArthur. What is that? About the General MacArthur? Oh, I see.

• 54:47Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 54:48David Sims?

  He gets replaced on that project, did that project actually happen? By this, yeah, oh, it did, with Gregory Peck, was also directed by Joseph Sargent. So he's just being like boxed out of everything by fucking Joseph Sargent.

• 55:03Griffin Newman?

  I got Sargent. I got Sargented.

• 55:07David Sims?

  He does have a movie called Watch the Skies that he's written, that he signs a development deal on. Obviously, that's going to become Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

• 55:14Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 55:15David Sims?

  We'll deal with that later, but that's like a script he's been nurturing. We're planning on it.

• 55:19Griffin Newman?

  Patreon?

• 55:20David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, we'll throw it on Patreon.

• 55:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, by the way, ET's going to Patreon.

• 55:23David Sims?

  Yeah, ET's getting tagged on to our Twin Peaks season two episode. Just on the back of that, if you want to listen.

• 55:30Griffin Newman?

  We're joking, all these are made.

• 55:31Speaker 05

  I love your work. I love your work so much. And I, you know that I am very complimentary of everything that you do, and I listen every week, and I love watching along.

• 55:40David Sims?

  What is it?

• 55:41Speaker 05

  I've never been so happy that something was put on Patreon than the second seri- the second season of.

• 55:47Griffin Newman?

  I'm glad one person was happy about it.

• 55:49David Sims?

  That's great.

• 55:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 55:52David Sims?

  So. He's cutting Sugarland Express. Xanac and Brown, the producers of that movie, are throwing him scripts and he's like, I don't know, nothing's really sparking for me. And when he meets with them, he sees the manuscript for Jaws.

• 56:06David Sims?

  He likes the title.

• 56:08Griffin Newman?

  It's a good title. I will say it's a good title. It's a really good title.

• 56:10David Sims?

  He says he basically stole the book. Read it over the weekend and came back and was like, I wish to do Jaws. And they were like, look, we'd love that, but the agent who sold it to us has a director as part of like a package deal.

• 56:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 56:23David Sims?

  And that director was Joseph Sargent? No.

• 56:30David Sims?

  There was the initial.

• 56:31Speaker 05

  Sergeant!

• 56:32David Sims?

  There was the initial hope that it was going to be Stanley Kramer, who's obviously a big director at the time. John Sturgis, the man who made Magnificent Seven and Great Escape. But the director was, who was actually attached, was called Dick Richards, who had made the Culpeper Cattle Company. Not like a, no offense to Dick Richards, but not a well-remembered guy.

• 56:52Griffin Newman?

  Rich Dickards.

• 56:57David Sims?

  And apparently.

• 56:58Griffin Newman?

  I had to say, it's not an interesting joke, but it had to be said.

• 57:01David Sims?

  They had a lunch with Dick Richards and Peter Benchley, who wrote the book Jaws. And Richards kept referring to the monster at the center of the movie as a whale. And Benchley said, for God's sake, it's a fucking shark, after he did this three times.

• 57:18David Sims?

  And they had to pull him out of the package deal, which I think was, you know, whatever. They had to maneuver that. And then they go back to Spielberg and they're like, Jaws is now available to you. Jaws.

• 57:30Griffin Newman?

  Jaws.

• 57:31David Sims?

  And Universal's a little scared because Steven Spielberg's a young man.

• 57:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 57:37David Sims?

  They probably are like, we just need some sort of like hired hand guy who's a steady guy, who's done a lot of productions.

• 57:43Griffin Newman?

  But let's also call out.

• 57:44David Sims?

  It's a bit of a risk.

• 57:45Griffin Newman?

  But this is also, like, basically the earliest days of film school. There are not many people who know how to direct movies. Like, it's not just that this guy has like a prodigious amount of talent that is kind of immediately undeniable when you watch his early TV work. Where like, if you watch that and you're just like, this guy knows where to put the camera. I guess he's on the list of 40 people we know who can make a movie.

• 58:08David Sims?

  Yes.

• 58:09Griffin Newman?

  But there is less competition for these positions. There is more of an old boys' club and the feeling of studios want to hire these old steady hands.

• 58:17David Sims?

  Right. Sort of.

• 58:18Griffin Newman?

  He's fighting against his age, but still.

• 58:20David Sims?

  But he's also, he's hot stuff. He knows he's hot stuff.

• 58:23Speaker 05

  He also, if I'm financing that movie, you're throwing a lot of money at a guy who wears like cutoff jean shorts.

• 58:30Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 58:30Speaker 05

  A lot. And that would make me nervous.

• 58:33Griffin Newman?

  But I think people can look at any footage he's shot, and this is what the studios are doing and going like, this guy undeniably has it figured out.

• 58:43David Sims?

  Spielberg starts to feel a little shaky. He's like, wait a second, I made Duel. Jaws also has like four letters in it. It's also about this kind of like unseen monster that's just right, you know, like this. He's worried about repeating his shtick.

• 58:58David Sims?

  So he reads the book, you know, he's looking through the book and he's like, I never really liked the first two acts too much. I really loved them on the boat, the last 120 pages, like them on the hunt in the sea, the extended drama between them. And so as they're working on the script, Benchley wrote several drafts and then they start to bring in other people. He's like, can we like expand that? That's right. And like, that's what, as you're saying, like it's half the movie, essentially.

• 59:23Griffin Newman?

  Right. Cause I mean, the middle act, I assume, I've not read the book. Have either of you read the book?

• 59:28Speaker 05

  I haven't.

• 59:29David Sims?

  I read the book years ago. There's like a whole thing where there's an affair, there's a cuckling situation.

• 59:34Griffin Newman?

  It feels like he took out all the middle stuff that I hear people describe that is like weird interpersonal drama between the guys.

• 59:41David Sims?

  Yes.

• 59:42Griffin Newman?

  That I'm like, yeah, no one's showing up for that.

• 59:43David Sims?

  Spielberg's like, they should just be friends.

• 59:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. There's already enough innate tension from them having different personalities.

• 59:49David Sims?

  Right.

• 59:49Griffin Newman?

  They don't need to bone each other's wives.

• 59:52David Sims?

  In the book, only Brody survives.

• 59:55Speaker 05

  Well, there is a little bit of a moment that might allude to that and that Dreyfus just comes over and is like, hey, is anybody eating this? And he just like gets in.

• 1:00:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:00:03Speaker 05

  You know what I mean?

• 1:00:04Griffin Newman?

  He cucks that lunch.

• 1:00:04Speaker 05

  He kind of cucks the lunch or whatever. So maybe that was intentional.

• 1:00:08Griffin Newman?

  There's a lunch cuckling. Yeah. But this is, this is Spielberg, master of economic storytelling. He went, you can see that and assume how this guy would treat his friends' wives.

• 1:00:18David Sims?

  Nonetheless, Spielberg continues to have cold feet. He's worried of, this is a quote from Peter Gottlieb, who's one of the writers.

• 1:00:24Griffin Newman?

  Carl Gottlieb.

• 1:00:24David Sims?

  Carl, sorry, Carl Gottlieb, who came in later and like sort of made it funnier essentially. Uh, where he apparently said, who wants to be known as a shark and truck director? He tried to leave.

• 1:00:34Griffin Newman?

  Better than a bus and tractor.

• 1:00:35David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:00:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:36David Sims?

  Tried to leave at one point to shoot Lucky Lady, which is a film that, you know, happened. Have you heard of Lucky Lady?

• 1:00:41Griffin Newman?

  I know that title. What is?

• 1:00:42David Sims?

  It's like a dramedy, like a throwback prohibition movie with Burt Reynolds and Gene Hackman and Liza Minnelli.

• 1:00:48Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:00:49David Sims?

  And it's famous for George Lucas. Visited the set and was so impressed by how it was run. It was shot in England. That he hired a lot of the people who worked on it to work on Star Wars.

• 1:01:01Griffin Newman?

  Wild.

• 1:01:01David Sims?

  He was kind of like, this is the kind of set I want to run.

• 1:01:04Speaker 05

  Can we just point out?

• 1:01:05David Sims?

  And that's why Star Wars was made in Britain.

• 1:01:07Speaker 05

  You said that the people that are starring in that movie are Burt Reynolds.

• 1:01:11David Sims?

  Burt Reynolds, Gene Hackman and Liza Minnelli.

• 1:01:14Speaker 05

  And you talked about the efficiency of the set. How the fuck is that possible?

• 1:01:19David Sims?

  Maybe that's part of it.

• 1:01:21Griffin Newman?

  It was sort of like a, like a zen garden. It was just very quiet, serene, efficient.

• 1:01:26David Sims?

  Uh, it's a Stanley Donan movie and it was a.

• 1:01:28Griffin Newman?

  No emotional outbursts whatsoever.

• 1:01:31David Sims?

  And.

• 1:01:32Griffin Newman?

  Zero ego.

• 1:01:34David Sims?

  Anyway, Steven Spielberg made Jaws.

• 1:01:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:36David Sims?

  You know, he stayed on Jaws.

• 1:01:38Griffin Newman?

  Oh, he, okay. He did end up directing.

• 1:01:40David Sims?

  Right. And.

• 1:01:41Speaker 05

  I'm gonna check, I'm gonna check my notes that I took. No, I had that. Yeah.

• 1:01:45Griffin Newman?

  He did.

• 1:01:45David Sims?

  You had that he made Jaws.

• 1:01:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, I had that he made Jaws.

• 1:01:47Griffin Newman?

  Steven Spielberg. Yeah.

• 1:01:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:01:48Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:01:49David Sims?

  And.

• 1:01:49Speaker 05

  Well, I guess S. I'm sort of inferring.

• 1:01:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52David Sims?

  Steven S.

• 1:01:53Griffin Newman?

  We should maybe, well, let's cross reference that. David, what do you have there in your notes?

• 1:01:57David Sims?

  Steven Spielberg directed Jaws.

• 1:01:58Speaker 05

  Okay. Well, we have to trust it at this point.

• 1:02:00Griffin Newman?

  We do at this.

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  I call him Steve.

• 1:02:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:02Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:02:02David Sims?

  The Indianapolis, so, so Benchley writes the sort of drafts that everyone starts to work off of. Gottlieb is brought in at one point and starts to flesh out the characters more, give it a little more humor. The famous USS Indianapolis speech.

• 1:02:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:02:17David Sims?

  Is largely attributed to John Milius. Uh, and Robert Shaw himself.

• 1:02:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:02:23David Sims?

  Just to make that, you know, kind of more of a monologue.

• 1:02:28Griffin Newman?

  It is fascinating how much that whole generation of film brats are, speak with such awe of Milius.

• 1:02:35David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:35Griffin Newman?

  Where they're like, we all wished we could write like him. And would just go to him with things like this and be like, you need to just crack this one scene for us.

• 1:02:43Speaker 05

  Can, uh, can I just have like a sort of quick Shawshank sidebar? Did, in that moment of like it somehow being accredited to Shaw, does it go into specifics about what he put in? Was it just a performance? Was it stuff?

• 1:02:59David Sims?

  Shaw rewrote.

• 1:03:00Griffin Newman?

  I think he put it in his own language.

• 1:03:02David Sims?

  There was a, right, there was a, already lines on this. Millyus is asked, can you make it more of a speech? And he wrote like a very, very like many pages long speech. And Robert Shaw, himself an accomplished writer, read it and was like, this is too much. This is sort of John Huston-y. I can't do this. Let me rewrite it. And it's his rewrite that is the dialogue.

• 1:03:24Griffin Newman?

  So it was like a tiny moment originally. Millyus blows it up to epic scale. Shaw makes it a little more natural and stripped down.

• 1:03:31Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. That's amazing.

• 1:03:33David Sims?

  The character of Brody.

• 1:03:36David Sims?

  The film's main, the main character, right? The Roy Scheider character.

• 1:03:40Griffin Newman?

  The movie opens and closes on him.

• 1:03:42David Sims?

  Police chief Martin Brody. Charlton Heston supposedly wanted the part. This is in Charlton Heston's kind of like genre days. Spielberg thinks he's a little too overwhelming and he desperately wants Robert Duvall.

• 1:03:53Griffin Newman?

  Would have unbalanced the movie. Duvall is interesting.

• 1:03:56David Sims?

  He makes perfect sense in that same, yeah, sort of area as Scheider. I think, yes. Not a great actor who's not as overwhelming, a sort of face.

• 1:04:05Griffin Newman?

  Right. At that time, as I love to say, considered Hollywood's number one, number two.

• 1:04:10David Sims?

  And Spielberg doesn't want.

• 1:04:12Speaker 05

  Heston or Scheider?

• 1:04:13Griffin Newman?

  Duvall.

• 1:04:14Speaker 05

  Duvall was.

• 1:04:14Griffin Newman?

  Had a real complex about, I'm always the second guy. They never let me play the lead.

• 1:04:19David Sims?

  Right. Things like Godfather, Network, uh, Harkins Nowhere.

• 1:04:23Griffin Newman?

  But I couldn't be more valued as the guy next to the explosive guy.

• 1:04:26David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:28David Sims?

  Spielberg doesn't want Scheider because he's like, this is a cop. He's just gonna do the tough guy thing from French Connection. Like, I don't want that. Now Spielberg.

• 1:04:38Griffin Newman?

  Writers coming off an Oscar nomination, French Connection, such a, like another seismic movie.

• 1:04:43David Sims?

  Definitely.

• 1:04:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44David Sims?

  Spielberg in his dotage, not his dotage because he's still kicking like crazy and making great movies, but later on. Says that that's not true and oh, he ran into Roy Scheider at a party and Roy Scheider was feeling down because he couldn't get a good part and he was like, you'd be perfect for Jaws. So I don't know if you want to believe on this. For Quint, they wanted Lee Marvin. Makes perfect sense as well.

• 1:05:07Griffin Newman?

  Also think it would have unbalanced the movie.

• 1:05:08David Sims?

  I think a little, little too big.

• 1:05:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:11David Sims?

  Then they want Sterling Hayden, who makes a lot of sense.

• 1:05:14Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 1:05:15David Sims?

  Uh, you know, they're, they're going to, you know, real pillars.

• 1:05:19Griffin Newman?

  Sterling Hayden in like, uh, long goodbye mode.

• 1:05:23David Sims?

  Guys who could play like Captain Ahab, right? You know? Um, and he wasn't able to do the role for some scheduling reason.

• 1:05:29Speaker 05

  Do you buy that Lee Marvin has like, has been on a boat?

• 1:05:33David Sims?

  Well, you're saying that because he's such a horse guy, such a Western guy.

• 1:05:38Speaker 05

  Yeah. Well, no, I just, I guess I'm thinking of like Lee Marvin in Point Blank.

• 1:05:42Griffin Newman?

  I, this is my thing. I buy that Lee Marvin has been on a movie boat.

• 1:05:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:05:47Griffin Newman?

  You know, like Heston Lee Marvin, there's a version of this movie that is like, not to be rude, but like Sergeant directing Marvin and, uh, Heston. And you're like, it's probably a movie that we think rules.

• 1:06:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:06:03David Sims?

  Right. But it's more of like a ha, ha, ha, look at this, these guys all chewing scenery and this is fun and.

• 1:06:09Griffin Newman?

  Right. It's, it's the kind of Tim Simons dictated, all caps, screaming text version of the movie that is still, you know, discussed to this day.

• 1:06:18Speaker 05

  That everybody loves and is so happy it's happening.

• 1:06:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:06:21David Sims?

  Robert Shaw comes from Zanich and Brown, who had produced The Sting, uh, producing this movie. Uh, and Spielberg was kind of like, oh, that makes a lot of sense.

• 1:06:29Speaker 05

  Another really hard thing to try to explain to kids is like the inner workings of like off track betting. When you're watching The Sting, they're like, okay, wait a minute. So like, what does win, place and show mean? And like trying to get them into the particulars of like the delay of the tape and you know what I mean?

• 1:06:49Griffin Newman?

  Multiple languages in that film.

• 1:06:51Speaker 05

  Yes, anyway.

• 1:06:52Griffin Newman?

  But Shaw has, uh, Oscar nomination under his belt.

• 1:06:55David Sims?

  He has one for a man for all seasons of the movie. He's amazing in.

• 1:06:57Griffin Newman?

  And he's also kind of like the Irish sham shepherd of his time where it's like, here's this guy who's just like credibility, credibility, character actor, but also great writer.

• 1:07:07David Sims?

  Great dramatic person.

• 1:07:08Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:07:09David Sims?

  Likes a bit of a temple.

• 1:07:11Griffin Newman?

  Wait, he likes a bit. Is that sourced in the podcast?

• 1:07:14David Sims?

  For Hooper.

• 1:07:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:15David Sims?

  Uh, John Voight is the first, uh, choice.

• 1:07:17Speaker 05

  That would be fucking wild.

• 1:07:20David Sims?

  Yeah, totally different movie.

• 1:07:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24David Sims?

  And then, uh, when he turns it down, um, Spielberg goes to Jeff Bridges and Timothy Bottoms. He loved the Last Picture Show.

• 1:07:32Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, the way the character's written, it, it feels like he's supposed to be more of this kind of like, the, the soft hand, rich boy thing that is in there.

• 1:07:43David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah. Bridges makes sense there.

• 1:07:45Griffin Newman?

  But in a form where everyone else is like, this guy's fucking doofy. He doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. The magic of the Dreyfus casting is you're like, this guy's absolutely a scientist and he's silly.

• 1:07:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:07:55David Sims?

  Um, obviously George Lucas is the one pushing for Dreyfus post-American graffiti. Um, and, uh, Dreyfus is like, I found the movie. The script boring. My character seemed to be just there to give out shark information, but I had no money.

• 1:08:11Griffin Newman?

  That's a weirdly rude thing of Dreyfus to say, which isn't usually his manner.

• 1:08:16David Sims?

  Right. I, he says, I gave in, I surrendered, I was a prostitute. Yeah.

• 1:08:20Griffin Newman?

  Every fucking Dreyfus quote is like that, where he's like, this movie sucked and they forced me to do it and I made money. Ha, ha, ha.

• 1:08:26David Sims?

  And then at the end, and then he's always like, and the thing I really love to do is insert some piece of shit no one remembers. Like, it's like, it was like, my real passion project was playing Dick Cheney.

• 1:08:34Griffin Newman?

  The education of Max Viford.

• 1:08:37David Sims?

  You know, like.

• 1:08:39Griffin Newman?

  But then there's that.

• 1:08:39David Sims?

  Such an asshole.

• 1:08:40Griffin Newman?

  There's the clip, he's one of the world's greatest assholes. There is that clip of him on The View promoting Vice. And they're like, you hadn't done a film in like six years. What pulled you back into playing Dick Cheney? And he was like, money.

• 1:08:56Griffin Newman?

  This movie's dumb. I don't care.

• 1:08:58Speaker 05

  I, I met Richard Dreyfus once when I was in college. He came to speak on our campus.

• 1:09:03David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:09:04Speaker 05

  And, uh, I think it was like something to do with the Bush, uh, uh, the Bush Gore election in 2000. And I went up to him afterwards and I said, hey, man, I really liked you in The Goodbye Girl. And he just like touched my chest, I think in a very nice, weirdly a very nice way.

• 1:09:22David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:22Speaker 05

  To say, but I think what was behind it was, I'm so glad you didn't say Jaws.

• 1:09:26David Sims?

  Sure, right.

• 1:09:27Speaker 05

  You know what I mean?

• 1:09:28David Sims?

  Even though it's like the movie he won the Oscar for at the time, sort of forgotten now, but at the time, a little better known.

• 1:09:34Speaker 05

  And at the time, A, from decades.

• 1:09:36David Sims?

  But he's getting Jaws, Close Encounters, you know, I don't know what else.

• 1:09:40Speaker 05

  Even probably American Graffiti more, yeah.

• 1:09:42David Sims?

  Mr. Holland's Opus. Hey, I love how you played that teacher like a fucking absolute pure asshole for the entire fucking movie. Really moved me.

• 1:09:50Speaker 05

  There were some eight year olds there that kept calling him Mr. Holland. And they were like, oh, Mr. Holland, Mr. Holland. And he did not respond well to that. He did not enjoy that, even though it was coming from the mouths of children.

• 1:10:01Griffin Newman?

  But like, talk about, right, Schuyder's post-Jaws career versus Dreyfus's post-Jaws career. It's not just that he has a couple more major blockbusters and that he wins an Oscar, the youngest to win Best Actor, a record held for several decades, right? And an Oscar that almost seems like, of course, undeniable.

• 1:10:20David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:10:20Griffin Newman?

  This guy, Runaway Freight Train, basically remains a major movie star until the mid 90s.

• 1:10:25David Sims?

  Absolutely. He's, I think he's often known for being a bit of a jerk, but he's, I mean, his 80s are not great, but he has hits.

• 1:10:34Griffin Newman?

  He's above the title studio guy and he does that.

• 1:10:36David Sims?

  There's no question about that.

• 1:10:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:39David Sims?

  But he didn't, yeah, he didn't, it's, right, he continues to exist as a star.

• 1:10:44Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:10:45David Sims?

  Despite kind of not really making a lot of hits anymore.

• 1:10:48Griffin Newman?

  Stakeout's a hit.

• 1:10:49David Sims?

  Stakeout is a solid hit. What About Bob is a solid hit.

• 1:10:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:10:53David Sims?

  There's stuff like Down and Out in Beverly Hills or whatever. Yeah, you know, yeah.

• 1:10:56Speaker 05

  I mean, Mr. Holland's Opus was a hit, wasn't it?

• 1:10:58David Sims?

  But that, that time, it was kind of like, oh, what a nice comeback, a bit of a passion project for him. This is great.

• 1:11:03Griffin Newman?

  And then that's basically the end. Like, within like three years, he's like third billed in the crew.

• 1:11:09David Sims?

  I mean, he has, to me, Krippendorf's Tribe, a movie I'm obsessed with the existence of.

• 1:11:14Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 1:11:14David Sims?

  That's sort of the end where it's like, can Richard Dreyfus still lead a movie? Maybe this one. And they're like, okay, that's enough.

• 1:11:20Griffin Newman?

  I did a sort of accidental trilogy watch of culturally insensitive Disney's 90s live action comedies, which is Man of the House.

• 1:11:28David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:11:30Griffin Newman?

  Which is Chevy Chase and Jonathan Taylor Thomas. And it's all about like a little Indians like weekend group. And then Jungle to Jungle.

• 1:11:41David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:11:41Griffin Newman?

  And Krippendorf's tribe. You have to do them in that order in ascending insensitivities. Krippendorf is astonishing.

• 1:11:48David Sims?

  Well, Krippendorf is an insane movie.

• 1:11:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:11:50David Sims?

  I'm sorry, what?

• 1:11:51Speaker 05

  Well, no, I was just gonna say that we have another Dreyfus connection in that Richard Dreyfus's brother is the music teacher at my kids' like, public elementary school.

• 1:12:01Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 1:12:02Speaker 05

  And he has, like, I think he was the ba- I just had completely forgot about this until you said this is like a passion project. I think his brother, in a way, was the, what he based that off of.

• 1:12:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:14Speaker 05

  But he's like a very nice man and he has like, sort of like, he's kind of balding, but he has long gray hair down to his shoulders. He kind of looks like a music teacher.

• 1:12:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:12:22Speaker 05

  He also wrote the, he wrote the elementary school's like, pride song.

• 1:12:27Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:12:28Speaker 05

  And like, every, all the kids sing it and it's really amazing.

• 1:12:30Griffin Newman?

  He sounds a lot like Mr. Largo from The Simpsons.

• 1:12:33Speaker 05

  That's the thing. Like, does Mr. Largo also own like, a sort of, like, a country club? Cause, cause, cause I think his name is, it's not Ben. What is Richard Dreyfus's brother's?

• 1:12:44Griffin Newman?

  Ben is his son.

• 1:12:45David Sims?

  Fuck would I know the name of Richard Dreyfus's brother?

• 1:12:48Griffin Newman?

  Ben, what's the name of Richard Dreyfus's brother?

• 1:12:51David Sims?

  Lauren Dreyfus.

• 1:12:52Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:12:53Speaker 05

  It's Lauren?

• 1:12:54David Sims?

  This seems to be maybe another Dreyfus. Because I don't know.

• 1:12:58Speaker 05

  Well, this Dreyfus is also the co-owner of like, a sort of small country club in La Cañada, California.

• 1:13:04Griffin Newman?

  Wild.

• 1:13:05Speaker 05

  Which has like, a pool. It's actually where my kids learned how to swim.

• 1:13:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:09Speaker 05

  Cause it's like, it's not expensive to get like, a pool membership and we don't have a pool or really access to one. So that's where my kids learned to swim. Yeah, and he's kind of always around there, just looking kinda like Richard Dreyfus. Apparently, Richard Dreyfus also doesn't like to do ADR and voiceover work, so if they're like, hey, we need you to do this. He's like, I don't wanna do it. And he, he just sends his brother.

• 1:13:30Griffin Newman?

  This guy teaches music, owns a country club, and does his brother's ADR.

• 1:13:35Speaker 05

  Like, what a fucking life.

• 1:13:37Griffin Newman?

  Wild.

• 1:13:38David Sims?

  I'm trying to find this guy's name. I can't.

• 1:13:39Griffin Newman?

  I'm surprised it even took that long for him to land on Dreyfus. I mean, I know, we'll get to it, but infamously Spielberg was very resistant to casting Dreyfus in Close Encounters.

• 1:13:47David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:13:48Griffin Newman?

  It felt for a while Dreyfus was constantly needing to convince people to hire him.

• 1:13:54Speaker 05

  Why was that the case in, after working with him in?

• 1:13:57David Sims?

  Hmm, I wonder.

• 1:13:58Speaker 05

  I, I've-

• 1:14:00Griffin Newman?

  I think he's difficult and I feel, I'm trying to remember who it was, but he had a more, I mean, this is the thing, Richard Dreyfuss was a very unconventional leading man.

• 1:14:08David Sims?

  He was, and he looks older than he is and he's got this sort of, but now I'm just sort of like, that was such a look in the seventies and it's kind of the Dreyfuss look.

• 1:14:16Griffin Newman?

  Well, now, of course, you were like, yeah, movies have guys like that in them, especially in roles like this. I do think to have someone who was that nebbishy.

• 1:14:25David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:26Griffin Newman?

  You know, was sort of like, and not be in one scene of the movie.

• 1:14:29David Sims?

  So perfect for the energy of this movie, obviously.

• 1:14:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and it is a performance that does kind of change things. Like it becomes one of those archetypal.

• 1:14:38David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, especially, right, because the movie, it's like, when you're with, um, Quinn, uh, Brody, you're like, yes, okay, I understand this movie. This is the kind of bullet-headed guy who's trying to like, cut through this crisis and best he can and Scheider feels like an upstanding guy.

• 1:14:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:53David Sims?

  Then Shaw, you're like, yeah, I get that. That's like a fucking sea dog.

• 1:14:56Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:14:56David Sims?

  Great, cool. I get that guy. And Dreyfuss, you're like, oh, huh, this is like an element I don't think about when it comes to like, you know, monster hunting on the water.

• 1:15:07Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:15:07David Sims?

  Right, that you would have this kind of like, right, squirrely guy.

• 1:15:10Griffin Newman?

  This weirdly confident, blue-blooded marine biologist wearing a fucking Canadian tuxedo. Who also, like, I do like the subplot of him being a little bit embarrassed of his background.

• 1:15:25David Sims?

  Right, right, right. He wants to be a salty dog.

• 1:15:27Griffin Newman?

  Yes, which I think if you cast someone like Jeff Bridges, it's like, that's how he reads at first. And the whole movie is him going, I'm dying for these guys to take me seriously. Whereas with him, it's almost like a secret he can successfully suppress, but once he knows, he's so self-conscious about it. I mean, I always think about there's the stories of how much Shaw would antagonize Dreyfuss. And the line that rings in my head constantly is when they were in the boat before take Shaw would go.

• 1:15:58Speaker 05

  Remember, mind your mannerisms, Dreyfus.

• 1:16:02David Sims?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:16:03Griffin Newman?

  Mind your mannerisms. And there is this balance of like, yes, he's a very mannered actor. It works in this movie. You need him to balance out the trifecta of the three of them. But there is a juice that comes from the feeling that Shaw is genuinely fairly annoyed by him as a person. And Dreyfus is on edge, trying to win him over.

• 1:16:24Speaker 05

  I mean, in a way, you can almost be like, yeah, how, well, how did Richard Dreyfus end up being a dick? It's like, well, because Robert Shaw psychologically broke him.

• 1:16:35David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 1:16:35Griffin Newman?

  He won't stop minding his mannerisms.

• 1:16:39David Sims?

  Look, in regard, regarding the production of Jaws, the highly discussed production of Jaws. I think Apocalypse Now is maybe a movie with, that's only, the only more discussed production.

• 1:16:49Griffin Newman?

  Sure, but let's also say, like, a year ago, there was a Broadway play.

• 1:16:54David Sims?

  Not a very good one, I think.

• 1:16:56Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:16:56David Sims?

  Called The Shark Is Broken.

• 1:16:58Griffin Newman?

  Written and performed by Robert Shaw's son, who looks exactly like him.

• 1:17:01David Sims?

  Does look like him.

• 1:17:01Griffin Newman?

  That's a three-hander of the three of them in the boat.

• 1:17:04David Sims?

  The reason I think it's not a very good play, right, is it's mostly just them, like, explaining the production of Jaws. It sounded kind of dramatically boring.

• 1:17:12Griffin Newman?

  Is one of the most discussed things ever.

• 1:17:14David Sims?

  I feel like people forget that, it was obviously, it was shot on Martha's Vineyard, pretty much on location. It started way earlier than it was supposed to because the studio was afraid of an actor's strike, which never materialized. So they were trying to get ahead of that.

• 1:17:27Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:17:28David Sims?

  So Spielberg hadn't really done any preparation, started about two months early. And, uh, there was a lot of pressure. Spielberg is 26 years old, basically, looks younger. He's being put in charge of basically the first movie to, like, shoot on open water ever.

• 1:17:44Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:17:45David Sims?

  Like, you know, it's like this, you're doing a water movie, you shoot in a tank.

• 1:17:48Griffin Newman?

  A movie that basically creates the, the saying of never shoot on water.

• 1:17:53David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:17:54Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:17:54David Sims?

  Spielberg is getting backed up by his studio, right? Like, it's not like he's fighting with them exactly, but he, his biggest idea for this movie is we should shoot on the real sea because. I want, you know, that sense visually of like, they're actually out in the open ocean. And it works, but obviously it was a nightmare for the production.

• 1:18:15Speaker 05

  I, the one of the, again, one of the things that when you go back and you watch it and you're like, yeah, this is perfect. I can't believe how good it is, is that I still am watching it now. And I'm not sure how they did it. I'm not sure how they did the shark. I'm not sure how they, how did they get those three barrels to get sucked under the water?

• 1:18:32Griffin Newman?

  I know.

• 1:18:32Speaker 05

  No fucking idea.

• 1:18:33Griffin Newman?

  That's my thing for how legendary it is, the shark didn't work. And I called out the one shot where I think it kind of falls apart, but not at the expense of the movie. Right? Every other shot of the movie, I'm like, the shark looks incredible. And I cannot believe they got it to do this.

• 1:18:49Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:18:49Griffin Newman?

  I cannot believe in 1975, doing underwater animatronics, that they got it to do any successful movements.

• 1:18:58Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 1:18:58Griffin Newman?

  And beyond that, that they got the shot in focus, the perfect framing, the perfect performance. It's not like he's often shooting the shark in total isolation. You know, it's not like insert shots in a tank. It's like insane that they got what they did.

• 1:19:14David Sims?

  The producers of the film had initially thought, which seems insane, that they could use a real shark and use shark trainers. And you perform like some simple stunts that you film and then you use a dummy for other stuff or miniatures or closeups or whatever.

• 1:19:29Griffin Newman?

  And after losing the lives of 10 consecutive shark trainers, they realized that maybe they should build one instead.

• 1:19:36David Sims?

  As Carl Gottlieb puts it, uh, for all the money and love that Hollywood can offer, there was no one foolish enough to claim to be able to train a shark.

• 1:19:42Griffin Newman?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:19:43David Sims?

  You cannot train a shark.

• 1:19:43Griffin Newman?

  That's not a fucking job position.

• 1:19:44David Sims?

  Of course. Um, so Spielberg's like-

• 1:19:47Speaker 05

  But now.

• 1:19:48Griffin Newman?

  Okay, Ben's gonna become a shark trainer.

• 1:19:49David Sims?

  Spielberg's like, get me the guy who made the squid in 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.

• 1:19:54Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:54David Sims?

  All right, so they start working on that.

• 1:19:56Speaker 05

  Ben, the sharks would know your respect for water. They would see that in you.

• 1:20:00Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:20:00Speaker 05

  They would be like, I also like wet.

• 1:20:02David Sims?

  Wait, he gets it.

• 1:20:03Speaker 05

  He gets it.

• 1:20:04Griffin Newman?

  Ben's gonna become the fucking Owen Grady of sharks. He's gonna have a bunch of fucking sharks on jet skis following him.

• 1:20:12David Sims?

  They do.

• 1:20:14Griffin Newman?

  We see you, Ben.

• 1:20:16David Sims?

  They do get some second unit footage of sharks, the shark cage stuff.

• 1:20:20Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:20:21David Sims?

  Is them trying to pull that off. But I think, uh, the great white sharks are too dangerous.

• 1:20:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:30David Sims?

  Right? Like, you can't, you can't do anything with that.

• 1:20:32Griffin Newman?

  Do you know where I learned that?

• 1:20:34David Sims?

  Where?

• 1:20:34Griffin Newman?

  Uh, the movie Jaws. Yeah, watching the film Jaws.

• 1:20:38David Sims?

  Uh, so they have these mechanical sharks. It's very famous. Again, these three full scale 25 foot great white shark models.

• 1:20:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:20:47David Sims?

  And there's essentially like, it's made out of steel.

• 1:20:50Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:50David Sims?

  It's got these flexible joints.

• 1:20:52Griffin Newman?

  There are images you can see of this sort of cross section.

• 1:20:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:20:55Griffin Newman?

  It is astonishing how complex they are.

• 1:20:57David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:20:58Griffin Newman?

  But also like complex in a very rudimentary way. Like, there are so many different.

• 1:21:02David Sims?

  Side to side. They can move their jaw. They can go up and down like.

• 1:21:05Griffin Newman?

  There's a lot of mechanics inside, but they're all basic, like, kind of hinges and shit. Yeah.

• 1:21:09David Sims?

  Exactly. They weighed, uh, 2,000 pounds?

• 1:21:13Griffin Newman?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:21:14David Sims?

  Uh, they were covered in like, you know, nylon, stretchy polyurethane kind of stuff. Uh, and they had like sort of a left side shark and a right side shark. And then a dead on shark, I guess. Like, they had sort of three kinds of sharks. And, uh, this one issue that they had was that when you put, start putting them in the, uh, salt water. It fucks with them in all kinds of unpredictable ways that none of them saw coming.

• 1:21:34Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, like, just replicating shark skin, I think must be a Herculean task, let alone making it in a way that is flexible enough that it can respond to all the mechanisms inside of it. And then the second you put it into fucking water.

• 1:21:51David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:21:51Griffin Newman?

  Of course it doesn't work.

• 1:21:53David Sims?

  Basically, it's like, it didn't work very well, but there's no one who could have done it better and they did the best they could. Like, it's sort of the upshot. It's not like it's like, ah, the effects guys fucked it up.

• 1:22:02Griffin Newman?

  It's not an escape from LA situation. Right.

• 1:22:05David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:22:06Griffin Newman?

  Patrick Williams, our buddy, did a very good video of like, you know, the classic filmmaking lore of like, well, they were supposed to shoot the shark a lot and then the shark doesn't work. So then Spielberg has to rethink the whole visual approach. And what makes the movie magical that the shark is so often implications?

• 1:22:24David Sims?

  And Spielberg said, it goes right from Harryhausen to Hitchcock, right?

• 1:22:27Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And, and I think he learns a lot, like the fact that, as you said, he had less prep time. Everything's going wrong. This is an approach he basically tries to recreate in all of his movies after this of like, keep myself on my toes. Keep myself fresh. Patrick did this great villa video of like, what would the movie even have been if they had the shark working?

• 1:22:50David Sims?

  I guess it's like a more straightforward monster movie with a bunch of awesome like shark kills and stuff.

• 1:22:56Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 1:22:57David Sims?

  Like, that's what it is.

• 1:22:58Griffin Newman?

  But I'm like, even if the shark worked, quote unquote, I don't think any of that footage would have been very good.

• 1:23:07David Sims?

  Probably not. I don't think you could achieve a realistic shark footage.

• 1:23:11Griffin Newman?

  No, and as we're saying, like Jaws, Bruce, pulling up onto the boat, eating Robert Shaw is the most sustained, direct, like closest to full body, direct sunlight, extended view you get of the shark doing shit. And it's the one part where the fakeness of the shark starts to show itself. But also at that point, you've bought into Jaws and Robert Shaw is selling the shit out of it. If the movie had seven sequences like that, it would not work.

• 1:23:41David Sims?

  I completely agree.

• 1:23:43Speaker 03

  It's almost like when they start attaching those flotation devices to the shark. That extended sequence, you never are really seeing from the shark's perspective.

• 1:23:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:56Speaker 03

  And you're having to do so much work with your imagination to kind of-

• 1:24:00Griffin Newman?

  The barrels are fucking brilliant.

• 1:24:02David Sims?

  But it sounds bad.

• 1:24:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:24:03David Sims?

  Like if I told you like, hey, we're not gonna have the shark, but there'll be some barrels, so you'll know where it is. Like, that sounds like you've lost your movie.

• 1:24:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:24:10Speaker 03

  Sure, but I think, yeah, cutting to seeing the shark underwater, it maybe would have been not as effective.

• 1:24:17David Sims?

  No, yeah, no, I think it would-

• 1:24:19Speaker 05

  Just to see the barrels going underwater, especially after moving up the Shawshank again.

• 1:24:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:25Speaker 05

  Robert Shaw repeating the like, not with two barrels, he can't, not with two.

• 1:24:30Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:24:30Speaker 05

  Like, he says that or some version of that line three or four times, so that by the time the three barrels go underneath, you're like, oh, my God, this is the biggest thing we've ever seen.

• 1:24:38Griffin Newman?

  I mean, it's the kind of like classic, one of the ways to watch this film is really influential, but like a movie that teaches you the rules.

• 1:24:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:24:46Griffin Newman?

  That gives you the language to understand how to track stuff, and that makes you feel smart.

• 1:24:51Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:24:51Griffin Newman?

  Because you're like, I'm on the same page as these guys.

• 1:24:55David Sims?

  Obviously, 55 days shoot balloon to like 159 days. It was a disaster. Spielberg thought he would never work again.

• 1:25:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:01David Sims?

  The whole thing was crazy.

• 1:25:03Speaker 05

  Did he?

• 1:25:04David Sims?

  Uh, no, he retired from filmmaking at the age of 26.

• 1:25:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07David Sims?

  Well, and that's that. And I don't know why we did this later movies, because there weren't any.

• 1:25:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It's a flight of fancy on our part.

• 1:25:14David Sims?

  Obviously, again, this is so discussed, but what you might not know about the John Williams score is that he had temped the movie with John Williams' score from the Robert Altman movie Images.

• 1:25:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:24David Sims?

  Which he found kind of experimental and disturbing.

• 1:25:27Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:28David Sims?

  And Williams then is shown the movie with his temp score. I do not know that score. Do you know it at all?

• 1:25:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's a great score.

• 1:25:36David Sims?

  Guy, yeah.

• 1:25:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:37David Sims?

  Never seen Images. What's that one about?

• 1:25:40Griffin Newman?

  Uh, it's psychological horror. It's him doing, uh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:47David Sims?

  I get you.

• 1:25:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I get Images, I'm getting Images confused with, uh, what's the Sandy Dennis one, Cold Day in the Park.

• 1:25:55David Sims?

  Uh-huh. Yeah, I have seen the same problem. Yes, I have, I've seen this movie. Yeah, it was just in New York. Yay.

• 1:26:01Griffin Newman?

  It's him doing like an internalized kind of Bergman-y psychological thriller.

• 1:26:04David Sims?

  Or even like a Polanski movie.

• 1:26:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yeah.

• 1:26:08David Sims?

  Williams calls him laughing and says, no, no, no. This is not the score you want. You've made a pirate movie with a scary shark. You need a primal score. And he, and this has been replicated in like every single documentary about John Williams or whatever, just goes dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, you know, on the piano. And Spielberg starts laughing and is like, you know, essentially like, I didn't pay you for two fucking keys. And he's like, no, this is the theme. It's gonna be good. And Spielberg has said it's 50% of the movie.

• 1:26:37Griffin Newman?

  But also that, I think that was slightly new to have like specific character theme like that, like a musical cue that lets you know immediately, the movie is now in this character's hands. And especially for a character that is largely unseen like that, the thing I'm always surprised by stupidly every time I re-watch this movie is like how much score there is and how little of it is that.

• 1:27:02David Sims?

  There's plenty more classic Williams-y stuff in here, you know?

• 1:27:06Griffin Newman?

  There are like three or four other major themes in Jaws that repeat that sound like classic fucking William Spielberg shit.

• 1:27:12Speaker 05

  And even the moments where like the two-note thing that Spielberg is like, I didn't pay you for two notes, it feels like even when it's that, it's much more complicated.

• 1:27:21Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:27:22Speaker 05

  The, what do you call it? Not the Portman two, the, the thing that where everybody kind of collectively thinks something is something different. What's that called?

• 1:27:30Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 1:27:31Speaker 05

  Like, like the Shazam and Kazam thing.

• 1:27:35David Sims?

  Mandela effect?

• 1:27:36Speaker 05

  Mandela effect, like the Mandela effect of the two-note thing.

• 1:27:39Griffin Newman?

  Is that that's the only music the entire?

• 1:27:41Speaker 05

  Right. Yes, or that it is at some point just those two notes.

• 1:27:44Griffin Newman?

  Which it never is.

• 1:27:45Speaker 05

  Which it never is. It's all much more, it's there, it's just much more complicated and there's a lot more to it, filling it out.

• 1:27:51Griffin Newman?

  But there's this like very kind of lush Amity Island theme and there's the sort of like, the three boys are on the high seas theme.

• 1:27:58David Sims?

  Exactly, some adventure themes, right? Yes. Uh, it's a good score, one best, uh, score, uh, for John Williams. Good job by him.

• 1:28:05Griffin Newman?

  John Williams at the score, okay.

• 1:28:07David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:07Griffin Newman?

  For Jaws?

• 1:28:09David Sims?

  You know what? He did it for Jaws.

• 1:28:11Speaker 05

  I actually, I did make a few other notes about some behind the scenes stuff.

• 1:28:15David Sims?

  And he only won for that movie. He has, I believe, five Oscars. Uh, let me double check.

• 1:28:21Griffin Newman?

  They gave him five Oscars for Jaws?

• 1:28:25David Sims?

  Well, what is John Williams' last Oscar? That's the one that people, that's the more challenging question.

• 1:28:30Griffin Newman?

  His last win?

• 1:28:30David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:28:31Griffin Newman?

  That's a good question. Can you give me the decade?

• 1:28:34David Sims?

  Nineties.

• 1:28:36Griffin Newman?

  His last win is Jurassic?

• 1:28:41David Sims?

  He didn't even get nominated for Jurassic because he won for Schindler's List.

• 1:28:45Griffin Newman?

  Is that the last win?

• 1:28:46David Sims?

  That's the last one.

• 1:28:46Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:28:48Speaker 05

  My guess was gonna be Jumanji. I don't know that he scored.

• 1:28:51David Sims?

  He didn't win an Oscar for Jumanji.

• 1:28:53Speaker 05

  Did he do Jumanji?

• 1:28:54David Sims?

  I can find out for you. My guess is no.

• 1:28:56Griffin Newman?

  That's a double snub. If he didn't win the Oscar for it and didn't do it.

• 1:29:00Speaker 05

  And didn't get to do it?

• 1:29:00David Sims?

  James Horner did the score for Jumanji.

• 1:29:05David Sims?

  Is that, oh, well, that's the James Horner music, right?

• 1:29:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:08David Sims?

  He already, of course, had won an Oscar for Fiddler on the Roof, which he gets like a scoring adaptation Oscar for. But this is his first real Oscar. He wins again for a movie called Star Wars and again for a movie called E.T.

• 1:29:18Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:29:18David Sims?

  And again for a movie called Schindler's List.

• 1:29:20Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 1:29:21David Sims?

  Yeah, pretty cool behavior from J.W. But it is really rude that he has not won for 25 years.

• 1:29:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes, and they also, I guess, I'm assuming they haven't nominated him at all in those 30 years. Oh, wait, an additional 20 million nominations? He gets nominated four times every year?

• 1:29:42Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:29:43David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:29:43Griffin Newman?

  Uh, uh, who are you wearing?

• 1:29:46David Sims?

  Uh, who am I wearing?

• 1:29:46Griffin Newman?

  I'm doing like an impression of a red carpet correspondent, asking who you're wearing right now.

• 1:29:50David Sims?

  Well, I am wearing Quince.

• 1:29:54Griffin Newman?

  Well, well, well, what a coincidence.

• 1:29:58David Sims?

  It's a Mongolian cashmere zip sweater.

• 1:30:02Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:30:03David Sims?

  It's a sort of a brown. Would you agree?

• 1:30:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's like, maybe like a, what would you, a chocolate?

• 1:30:08David Sims?

  Sure, I have been seated next to people wearing this item of clothing, and they have brushed against me, not to brag, and gone like, so soft.

• 1:30:15Griffin Newman?

  Oh, a soft boy. But listen, the best pieces in your closet are the ones that you can count on, whether you're heading to work, going out, or keeping things casual. And this time of year, Quince makes finding something great for everyone else just as easy. This holiday season, it's where I'm shopping for myself and everyone on my list.

• 1:30:32David Sims?

  Quince does rock. It's got high-quality staples made with these premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere. 14-karat gold?

• 1:30:42David Sims?

  Italian leather.

• 1:30:43Griffin Newman?

  Mama mia.

• 1:30:44David Sims?

  All timeless, versatile pieces that feel special to unwrap and become everyday favorites long after the holidays. These cashmere sweaters, like the one I'm wearing, start at just $60. Lineup doesn't stop there. You've got premium down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories, everything your loved ones need to stay warm and look put together all season long.

• 1:31:04Griffin Newman?

  And everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen so you can give luxury quality pieces without the luxury price tag.

• 1:31:17David Sims?

  So yeah, obviously I'm wearing Quince sweater right now. I've got Quince bedding at home. Ooh, they've got Christmas stockings.

• 1:31:23Griffin Newman?

  Oh, well, well, well.

• 1:31:25David Sims?

  They got tree skirts. Garlands, if you want to go Christmas mode.

• 1:31:29Griffin Newman?

  Your tree deserves to be dressed in Quince as well. And when it comes to gifting, Quince has a lot more than clothing. Think fine jewelry, leather bags, the aforementioned hotel quality bedding, chef-grade cookware, and five-star luggage. Basically, plenty of ways to find something special for everyone on your list. If you want to give the gift of quality this holiday season, download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's a year. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. Ding dong. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Blank Check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:32:15David Sims?

  The all-new Whoop is here. Now more advanced than ever. Train smarter, sleep deeper, recover faster.

• 1:32:26David Sims?

  Extend your healthy years. Understand your cycle phases. Now 7% smaller with 14-plus days of battery life. So your data never stops, and neither do you. Power your best performance with memberships made for every goal.

• 1:32:43Speaker 05

  And whoop today.

• 1:32:48David Sims?

  The film begins with kind of a famously scary sequence.

• 1:32:53Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:32:54Speaker 05

  Are we gonna start talking about the movie?

• 1:32:55David Sims?

  Yes, in which a young woman and a young man canoodle. On the beach.

• 1:32:59Griffin Newman?

  Well, you're jumping way ahead.

• 1:33:01David Sims?

  Okay, I don't know if I'm jumping way.

• 1:33:03Griffin Newman?

  No, cuz what I like is that it doesn't open with canoodle. It opens with this physical flirtation, this very naturalistic, what you're saying like, you're dropped into this overlapping dialogue, a very kind of like,

• 1:33:19Griffin Newman?

  it feels, it feels almost a little bit documentary like. And then you get into the Spielberg specificity of visual storytelling of how their sort of flirtation happens and caught glances and gesture.

• 1:33:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, one thing that's fun about this whole like moving shot through that crowd is that you probably could have landed on any one of those people. And there would have been a little story about them, or maybe they would have started running down the beach. This goes back to the episode that you did about, about West Side Story. Or no, sorry, about the Fabelmans, when everybody's like, when your reaction to people saying that they were underwhelmed was, he made a movie about how he wanted to fuck his own mother, like he is in the fucking pocket.

• 1:34:05Speaker 05

  One thing that I love about this movie is how fucking horny it is.

• 1:34:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:34:10Speaker 05

  In these like sort of, not throughout.

• 1:34:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:13Speaker 05

  But just these little moments where it's just like Spielberg's thinking about making out.

• 1:34:17David Sims?

  I feel like as Spielberg gets older and becomes famously kind of unhorny. People often, and famously just like treacly.

• 1:34:24Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:34:25David Sims?

  He and others would look back at Jaws and being like, remember how Jaws is yeah, kind of horny and hot and a kid fucking explodes in it?

• 1:34:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:33David Sims?

  And Spielberg now is like, yeah, I would not, you know, explode a child on screen anymore. Right, like, you know, it is crazy that I did that. This is, this is young.

• 1:34:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:34:41David Sims?

  Juvenile horny Spielberg.

• 1:34:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:44David Sims?

  In a great way.

• 1:34:46Griffin Newman?

  But also, look, when we covered the second half of Spielberg's career many years ago, it was a pre-Fabelman's era, how little we knew. Right? And like, the cultural narrative on Spielberg was like, wonder kid dork who never got over his parents getting divorced. And people made much hay of how much the divorce hung over all of his work. But then you see Fabelman's and you're like, the fucking psychosexual dynamics of this are so much more complicated.

• 1:35:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:35:13Griffin Newman?

  And now, if you like, map that on to all of his other films, I think they all become more interesting.

• 1:35:18Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:35:19Griffin Newman?

  Especially the early ones. And a thing I was really taken with watching this is like, Sugar Land Express is like, a young dude's movie, right? That is like, the film you expect a twenty-something, like, full of him and vinegar, like, filmmaker to make.

• 1:35:34Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:35:35Griffin Newman?

  Jaws is weirdly like, a sad, broken, middle-aged man movie.

• 1:35:39Speaker 05

  It, it becomes that.

• 1:35:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:40Speaker 05

  But not right at the start, right?

• 1:35:42Griffin Newman?

  No, this, the opening is kind of what you'd expect out of him.

• 1:35:45Speaker 05

  Yes, for sure.

• 1:35:46Griffin Newman?

  But it becomes that thing, right? And I, I watched this and I'm just like, how did he have the sort of like, emotional intelligence? Obviously, he cast the right actors, right writers, you know, worked the script, whatever. But to like, be tapped into this, and you do go back to the Fabelman's thing of like, right? The fundamental thing with Spielberg was, he was basically like, pulled into adulthood too early.

• 1:36:08Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:36:09Griffin Newman?

  Right? That like, his mother brought him inside of a marriage? And was like, you hold secrets now? And like, your sense of the grownups in your life has been like, collapsed.

• 1:36:20Speaker 05

  There, there is a restraint and a maturity to this that seems insane that, how old is he? Twenty-six?

• 1:36:26Griffin Newman?

  Twenty-nine, you said?

• 1:36:28Speaker 05

  Um, he's twenty-six when he's making it. He's like, twenty-nine for the Oscar nomination point. Wild. It's wild that a twenty-six-year-old made this movie with, with a, that has as much restraint and maturity as it does.

• 1:36:39Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then like, you watch this opening, which is kind of horny and feels like something a little bit more like a young guy made. But it also has that Hitchcock thing of like, this guy's simultaneously seems really horny and also seems to have a very complicated relationship with sex.

• 1:36:52Speaker 05

  Yes, right.

• 1:36:53Griffin Newman?

  Which also makes sense for everything we know about him now.

• 1:36:57Speaker 05

  Before we, actually, can I ask a question? My first note was that the, the DP was Bill Butler?

• 1:37:04David Sims?

  Uh, for, for Jaws.

• 1:37:06Speaker 05

  For Jaws. When did he start? Cause I mean, I guess, I, I guess in my head, I would have assumed that he had always been working with Kaminsky.

• 1:37:14David Sims?

  No, Kaminsky is Schindler's List.

• 1:37:16Speaker 05

  That's when it starts?

• 1:37:17David Sims?

  Yes. Spielberg does not, uh, move over to him until Schindler's List, but I don't think.

• 1:37:22Griffin Newman?

  He did a lot of Slocum movies.

• 1:37:24David Sims?

  Right. And Douglas Slocum is kind of his big guy. The Jaws, Bill Butler, he only worked with the one time, I think. Close Encounters is Zieg, Philmus Ziegman.

• 1:37:32Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:37:32David Sims?

  Heard of him.

• 1:37:33Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:37:34Griffin Newman?

  Did Ziegman do Sugar Land as well? Am I wrong?

• 1:37:36David Sims?

  Uh, Sugar Land was shot by Ziegman, yes. Um, and, uh, 1941 is, uh, William Fraker, who's another, you know, big name of the time.

• 1:37:45Speaker 05

  Do we have any?

• 1:37:46David Sims?

  And then Raiders is Slocum and E T is Alan Davio. Yeah. He would kind of move around, you know?

• 1:37:52Speaker 05

  Do you have any idea why after the success of this, that he wouldn't have worked with Bill Butler again?

• 1:37:58David Sims?

  I have no idea, but my guess, you know, back then it was like, he probably wasn't like picking everyone in the, with the same kind of.

• 1:38:05Griffin Newman?

  Right. There's a little more conveyor belt who's available.

• 1:38:08David Sims?

  Bill Butler shot One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, right? Famously replaced Haskell Wexler, who got fired.

• 1:38:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:38:13David Sims?

  Or quit or I can't, I can't remember. Um, but yeah, Bill, you know, Bill, that's a big experienced guy. And maybe it was like, hey, this is a fucking, like, there's this story where like Spielberg is like, I want to use tripods. And Bill Butler and the crew had to be like, you can't shoot with a tripod in the open ocean. Your audience was going to throw up like, cause it's gonna, and they, he was like, no, it'll work. And they had to shoot some footage for him. And he was like, oh, I see. Like it's moving too much. Like, you know, you, you can't do this.

• 1:38:37Griffin Newman?

  Bill Butler only died in 2023. He was a hundred and one years old.

• 1:38:42David Sims?

  Got hit by a bus?

• 1:38:44Griffin Newman?

  He was not Orson Beaned.

• 1:38:47David Sims?

  I just always, I was like, he died a hundred and one. How'd he die? Oh, he was, uh, killed by ninjas.

• 1:38:53David Sims?

  R I P to the great Bill Butler.

• 1:38:54Speaker 05

  Can I say in this, in this first sequence of, of running up and down the beach, just while we're talking about the, the photography of it?

• 1:39:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:02Speaker 05

  That, and I'm going to make, uh, this is going to be a, a, a very broad swing on a comparison, but just to one of your recent guests, Arkasha Stevenson, or recent.

• 1:39:11Griffin Newman?

  Who, by the way, you, you helped connect to get on that. Episode. Thank you very much.

• 1:39:15Speaker 05

  Oh, my God. My pleasure, because everybody should know who Arkasha is because she's unbelievable. And I've never been an omen person. That's never been like my franchise.

• 1:39:25David Sims?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:39:25Speaker 05

  But I thought the first omen was fucking incredible. And one of the things that I loved about it was that just about every single shot in that movie did not have to be as good as it was.

• 1:39:37David Sims?

  So true.

• 1:39:37Speaker 05

  Like, she fucking put so even to just.

• 1:39:40David Sims?

  The normal Hollywood thing now is to make sure the shots are not very good.

• 1:39:43Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:39:43Griffin Newman?

  But it's almost. In fact, they seem to be intentionally bad.

• 1:39:48Speaker 05

  Yes. And I loved seeing.

• 1:39:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:39:51Speaker 05

  The amount of thought and planning.

• 1:39:54Griffin Newman?

  No wasted image.

• 1:39:55Speaker 05

  No wasted image in that movie. And to that same extent, that in this first sequence, you could completely have this whole first sequence work and do it exactly what it needs to do and still be really effective. But also, the shots are fucking incredible.

• 1:40:14Griffin Newman?

  But it's this thing. I mean, it's why we jumped on your throat, David, of saying two young people canoodling, because it's like the short drama he establishes within like 90 seconds.

• 1:40:25David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:40:25Griffin Newman?

  Of like, there is a specificity and charm to the way he captures their sort of silent courtship. And the the beginning of it, you know, what feels like this could be the whole movie. We just watch these two people. As you said.

• 1:40:40David Sims?

  It's like Halloween.

• 1:40:42Griffin Newman?

  Forty other people who could have been the leads of the movie.

• 1:40:44David Sims?

  Right. But like Halloween as well, like any movie where it's like, you're kind of in it being like, this is the movie I'm watching. And then it ends and you're like, oh, I was essentially watching a little prologue.

• 1:40:52Griffin Newman?

  And they don't feel like disposable horror victims. It feels like there's a level of compassion for them.

• 1:40:57David Sims?

  It's a very horror movie thing.

• 1:40:58Griffin Newman?

  You do also think about, though, like Fableman's has the whole fucking sequence of him being hired to make the like beach day video.

• 1:41:04David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:41:04Griffin Newman?

  And his weird status of like, you know, shooting the popular kids in a way that makes his bully more upset.

• 1:41:11David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:41:12Griffin Newman?

  You know, like, there's something fascinating here of him making this movie of like, the happy, pretty, normal kids on the beach who can just give each other looks and then be like, you wanna go? Fuck in the water.

• 1:41:23Speaker 05

  A comp that I was thinking about this moment, do you remember in Neighbors when they have like that whole plan? Like the Seth Rogen movie, Neighbors? When he's like, alright, once they start talking, we have thirty seconds until they decide to go upstairs and have sex. Like, and I like that, that this, like, it doesn't matter what generation you are from. If you just start looking at a member of the office sex for long enough, it's gonna be like, alright, so we gotta leave now, right? Like, we just gotta go have sex now?

• 1:41:50David Sims?

  God bless.

• 1:41:51Griffin Newman?

  Just quickly to say, the Butler conversation, right? And this is, speaking of what David's saying of there not being as much of a like. This sort of like, set union between director and cinematographer. We always work with each other and we're gonna carve out time for each other and whatever.

• 1:42:05David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:42:05Griffin Newman?

  Butler in seventy-five does Jaws and Cuckoo's Nest. The year before that, he did The Conversation, right? Within this decade, he does Grease, he does Rocky II. But then in between it are eighty titles you've never heard.

• 1:42:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:42:17Griffin Newman?

  The guy was just doing shit.

• 1:42:18David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:42:19Griffin Newman?

  Like, right before Jaws, he does the Manchu Eagle Murder Caper Mystery.

• 1:42:24David Sims?

  That sounds good.

• 1:42:24Griffin Newman?

  Like, even coming off of Jaws, it doesn't feel like he was treated as like, well, obviously, you are the finest image crafter.

• 1:42:31David Sims?

  Because that just didn't exist back then, right? Or it's just starting to exist.

• 1:42:33Griffin Newman?

  He does The Omen 2, he does something called Uncle Joe Shannon.

• 1:42:36David Sims?

  That sounds good, too.

• 1:42:37Griffin Newman?

  He's just doing shit.

• 1:42:38Speaker 05

  I don't think, so my dad is, my dad's a photographer. And grew up like, you know, like in central Maine, making a living as a photographer. And I don't think that people under a certain age, basically anybody that doesn't know a world without digital photography. I don't think they understand how hard it is.

• 1:42:59Griffin Newman?

  To just get any image.

• 1:43:01Speaker 05

  To get any image, much less a good one.

• 1:43:04Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 1:43:04Speaker 05

  When you don't know, you just have to be like, I understand how light works, I understand where, what the focus depth is. I understand if the sun's behind him, how to get light on their face. Or, or to not have it, or to like, when to take detail out. Like, I don't think they understand how fucking hard this is. So it does make sense that a guy like that, who can make Jaws and make The Conversation.

• 1:43:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:25Speaker 05

  Is also like, yeah, I also have to go do the other movies. Because if they don't, if I don't do it.

• 1:43:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:31Speaker 05

  They literally don't have another human being that knows how to do it.

• 1:43:36Griffin Newman?

  Here's another thing, that's just, I don't think people think about that much.

• 1:43:40David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:43:41Griffin Newman?

  Uh, you know, playback is only invented by Jerry Lewis in like the fucking sixties. It's still a fairly new technology at this point in time.

• 1:43:49Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:43:49Griffin Newman?

  But video playback was them attaching a small camera next to the film camera, and them having a monitor that showed them a vague reference image of what it was looking like. But not only is it off a little bit in orientation, it's a different fucking format.

• 1:44:04Speaker 05

  Right, you're not seeing what the shot's actually gonna look like.

• 1:44:06Griffin Newman?

  Right, now they're actually tapping a feed in to show you what

• 1:44:09Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:44:09Griffin Newman?

  the digital camera is capturing.

• 1:44:11Speaker 05

  And they can actually-

• 1:44:12Griffin Newman?

  The shot.

• 1:44:13Speaker 05

  And they can color correct it.

• 1:44:15Griffin Newman?

  In real time.

• 1:44:15Speaker 05

  In real time.

• 1:44:16Griffin Newman?

  Right, so like not only is it that tough to get any image, but even the image they're looking at for reference is not representative of whether or not that image is working. And they just have to wait for it to be thrown into a fucking chemical bath.

• 1:44:30Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:44:30Griffin Newman?

  Like the Joker. And then everyone like goes to rushes this thing that we don't have anymore as the sort of tradition of like, the cast and crew getting together late at night in a screen room with alcohol, and basically being like, "Oh fuck, I hope these things look good." And you hear the stories of when like rushes were explosive, when people were like, "Holy shit, we have lightning in a bottle." The arc of just being like, "Oh my god, it's in focus."

• 1:44:56Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:44:57Griffin Newman?

  It's not underexposed. The image works. We have some usable version of the image. And then if on top of that, you have like, the performance works, or the shark works, or any of that shit, that's why I'm saying I still can't get my head around that they got the footage they got.

• 1:45:12Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:45:13Griffin Newman?

  With all the X-factors.

• 1:45:15Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:45:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:16Speaker 05

  Part of it might be the fact that they had 59 days and then it took 155.

• 1:45:20Griffin Newman?

  That's a way to solve it.

• 1:45:21Speaker 05

  And it was hard.

• 1:45:22Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:45:22Speaker 05

  Right. Should we do a little Simsense check-in about how Sims is doing since he got here? Sims, how are you doing?

• 1:45:28Griffin Newman?

  How you feeling?

• 1:45:28David Sims?

  It's fine.

• 1:45:29Speaker 05

  That.

• 1:45:29David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:45:30Griffin Newman?

  You're with a legend of twin dad-dom here.

• 1:45:33David Sims?

  That's true.

• 1:45:33Griffin Newman?

  An incredible resource.

• 1:45:35David Sims?

  Yeah, but-

• 1:45:36Griffin Newman?

  In the field.

• 1:45:36David Sims?

  The problem with twin parents is that they're, which is good in a way. Like, there's no twin parent I've met where they're like, "Listen, listen, three simple rules for raising twin infants." Like, it's actually, if you just do this, this, and this, it'll be okay. Instead, they're just like, "I have no memory of that."

• 1:45:54David Sims?

  No, "It was terrible and I don't remember." And I remember later.

• 1:45:59Griffin Newman?

  The brain blocks things out in order.

• 1:46:00David Sims?

  Roman Mars, friend of the show, huge fan of the movie Jaws, is also a twin parent. And he sent me like a comforting email when he learned I'd had twins. It was like, honestly, after like three years, you're really gonna feel normal again. And I was like, three years?

• 1:46:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:12David Sims?

  Roman? He's nodding.

• 1:46:14Speaker 05

  Yes, well, here's the thing.

• 1:46:15Griffin Newman?

  Live action Mulan will be out by then.

• 1:46:18Speaker 05

  The, I, I, I, I didn't, I was talking to Ben about this before. We ran into each other down the street and we like sat at a nice little table and we talked, you know, congratulations are in order. Congratulations.

• 1:46:30David Sims?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:46:31Speaker 05

  And we talked about how I maybe hadn't played the, you announcing to me that you were having twins in the right way that made you would have feel, made you feel calm because I was like, oh no, you're fucked. Like, I really wasn't.

• 1:46:45Griffin Newman?

  I want to see if I can find the verbatim.

• 1:46:46Speaker 05

  Wasn't really very gentle about that and I am sorry.

• 1:46:49David Sims?

  It's fine.

• 1:46:50Speaker 05

  But it is true, but also Casey Beloy's, who was at the time Veep was on.

• 1:46:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:46:54Speaker 05

  Was the head of HBO comedy and then kind of slowly started moving up. And now he's, I think, running all of Mac.

• 1:46:59David Sims?

  Yes, no, of course.

• 1:47:00Speaker 05

  So he also has twins that I think are maybe six years older than ours. And when they were first born, he was like, look, it gets a lot easier at three. And I was like, cool, cool, cool. And then I would see him a couple of years later and he's like, here's the thing. Seven is when it really gets dialed in. And I was like, oh, great. And then they would hit seven and I would see him and he was like, you know what's great? Thirteen.

• 1:47:21Griffin Newman?

  You're gonna love thirteen.

• 1:47:21David Sims?

  This is true with all parents. You're right. Like, parents are like, well, actually, now I just feel okay about it. And it's like, well, no, you, when you say normal, you mean a version of normal.

• 1:47:32Speaker 05

  A version of normal.

• 1:47:33David Sims?

  You felt better about this six months in and then two years in and then, you know, whatever. Of course, I understand that.

• 1:47:38Speaker 05

  There are like little markers and I just want to let you know that like, it is a really, of course, it's like a very beautiful thing, but you are also in the, possibly the hardest part of it.

• 1:47:49David Sims?

  I think there's no question.

• 1:47:50Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:47:50David Sims?

  I think when you're, when you have young children, the hardest part is true infancy.

• 1:47:56Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:47:56David Sims?

  Because that's. The sleeplessness, them not giving you anything back, like, it's really, you know, that's, that's an unusual feeling.

• 1:48:04Speaker 05

  And there is also a moment, like, even one thing that's gonna open up your world, you already have a child, so you kind of already know this, but with twins for sure, is like, when they're just able to hold their own bottle with their own little hands, that is a thing where it's just like, oh, oh, God, okay, I now don't have to hold the bottle for them.

• 1:48:22David Sims?

  Right. Can't wait for that. That sounds great.

• 1:48:25Speaker 05

  Anyway, I love you and I hope you're doing the best that you can.

• 1:48:27David Sims?

  Doing fine. We'll talk about it. Well, I'll talk to you sometime. I should talk to you sometime.

• 1:48:31Speaker 05

  You should. I don't remember anything.

• 1:48:33David Sims?

  Yep, exactly. You're useless, motherfucker. Were you on Veep when you had young twins?

• 1:48:37Speaker 05

  They were, they were born at the end of shooting the first season. I actually had to leave in the middle of episode seven of season one, because they were born like, sort of very...

• 1:48:46David Sims?

  That must have been really intense.

• 1:48:47Speaker 05

  It was very, very stressful. If you go back and watch in the eighth episode, you can kind of see that I'm only in there for like, one scene.

• 1:48:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:48:55Speaker 05

  And it was because I had like, flown back for one day to basically finish out some version of a storyline. I was supposed to be in that episode more, but they rewrote it, so I came out and filmed like, one day, finished out, and then went back home.

• 1:49:08David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 1:49:09Speaker 05

  It was, yeah, it was very, very stressful.

• 1:49:12David Sims?

  Well, I'm glad you made it. Here, here you are.

• 1:49:14Speaker 05

  And here we are.

• 1:49:15David Sims?

  On my check. What a triumphant time.

• 1:49:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:49:19Griffin Newman?

  I feel like one of the most famous cult opens of all time.

• 1:49:22David Sims?

  It is. Thank you for bringing us back to this.

• 1:49:24Griffin Newman?

  Certainly.

• 1:49:25Speaker 05

  What, in the movie Jaws?

• 1:49:26Griffin Newman?

  One of the most parodied sequences ever.

• 1:49:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:49:29David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:49:30Griffin Newman?

  Spielberg himself parodied it.

• 1:49:33David Sims?

  In?

• 1:49:34Griffin Newman?

  1941.

• 1:49:35David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:49:36Speaker 05

  I don't think I've seen 1941, so this is news to me.

• 1:49:38Griffin Newman?

  I have, look, I'll be watching it soon for the first time. I have never been able to successfully make it through. I think I've never gotten past the 20 or 30 minute mark, but the opening sequence is Spielberg being like, "I'm ready to make fun of myself", and people being like, "This is the most hubristic shit I've ever seen."

• 1:49:55David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:49:55Speaker 05

  Wow. Again, another reason that like, this has been, the reason that this movie is so good is that this has been parodied so many times.

• 1:50:04Griffin Newman?

  And yet you watched the real thing?

• 1:50:05Speaker 05

  And it's, like, the moment where she is actually taken underwater, there is all the screaming, and then the moment where it is cut short and then silent is still immensely effective.

• 1:50:15Griffin Newman?

  David has this very detailed Jaws. Towel hanging behind him, which we've referenced, which is the poster image. This beautiful painted image of Jaws basically just going straight up, nose to the sky, right?

• 1:50:28David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:50:30Griffin Newman?

  The exact kind of image you never see in the movie.

• 1:50:32David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:33Griffin Newman?

  But there is this beautiful marriage of like the poster setting the expectations for like, holy shit, that does look scary from that angle. And then to the point of like, what would the movie have been if the shark had worked? There's no version of it that's scarier than the one where you don't see the shark at all.

• 1:50:48David Sims?

  It's the most, I know it's the right, it's the most, it's an observation that's been made. It doesn't matter. It's still so, you're right, like.

• 1:50:54Griffin Newman?

  It popping out as much as the poster seems exciting would never look as startling as her being pulled down.

• 1:51:02David Sims?

  It is a hell of a poster.

• 1:51:03Griffin Newman?

  It is. But like, I think the movie kind of doesn't work without having the poster.

• 1:51:08David Sims?

  The primal fear of sharks is that you won't see them.

• 1:51:12Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:51:13David Sims?

  As someone who goes to the beach a lot, unlike you, you don't really go to the beach.

• 1:51:16Griffin Newman?

  Not my thing.

• 1:51:16David Sims?

  Tim, what are you, where are you on the beach?

• 1:51:18Griffin Newman?

  I'm more of a Sammy Fable man.

• 1:51:19David Sims?

  You're from, now you're from Maine.

• 1:51:21Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yes. This is like, I.

• 1:51:22David Sims?

  But are you from coastal Maine or?

• 1:51:24Griffin Newman?

  No, I'm from central Maine.

• 1:51:25David Sims?

  Right. And obviously even coastal Maine, like it's chilly up there.

• 1:51:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's chilly. I'm not getting into the water a whole lot.

• 1:51:30David Sims?

  Right. But I think, you know, Maine, New England, this is where this movie is set. Obviously this is a sharky area.

• 1:51:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:51:36David Sims?

  I'm from New York. I go to the beaches in New York. There's less shark stuff there. But once in a while, there's the sort of notice of like, hey, like someone got bit by a shark.

• 1:51:45Griffin Newman?

  I don't like that.

• 1:51:46David Sims?

  Out in the fucking Rockaways.

• 1:51:47Griffin Newman?

  Don't like it.

• 1:51:48David Sims?

  And, you know, everyone's like, well, I mean, basically the, what they say is like, I mean, it doesn't really happen that often, so you shouldn't be too worried about it. But there's also nothing they can really say about like, but look out for this.

• 1:51:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:59David Sims?

  Because sure, if you see a shark, get away from the shark.

• 1:52:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:04David Sims?

  But largely it's more just kind of like, nah, can I just, they kind of just come out of nowhere.

• 1:52:08Speaker 03

  The fucked up thing is that there's now more shark attacks than ever. It's because the planet is warming, unfortunately. But so now I feel like in the last few summers, I like to swim, like going to the beach. I've been very mindful of the fact that I feel like if there's some kind of person that would get bit by a shark, it'd be me.

• 1:52:28Griffin Newman?

  No, but going back to the fucking earlier point, I think the sharks would sense your respect for them.

• 1:52:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:52:33Griffin Newman?

  I'm genuinely not. Even joking now, I think you're less likely to be attacked by a shark than almost.

• 1:52:39David Sims?

  Than a like a fin bump?

• 1:52:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:52:42Speaker 05

  They also, in all the news stories about shark sightings, it always seems to be like somebody was flying a drone or there was a helicopter flying over and they spotted sharks and it's always like, here's the story. This person didn't know how close to a shark they were.

• 1:52:57David Sims?

  Yes, you hear a lot of that. Again, very chill thing that people love to hear, right?

• 1:53:02Griffin Newman?

  I think it's Ian Edwards, The Great Stand Up, has a bit about shark attacks. And being like, it's weird that we refer to them as shark attacks when we're the ones invading their home.

• 1:53:12David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:53:13Griffin Newman?

  It's not like sharks like.

• 1:53:14David Sims?

  It's an uncomfortable.

• 1:53:15Griffin Newman?

  Fucking show up at your door and stab you. He's like, I would call that a shark attack.

• 1:53:19David Sims?

  But of course, the thing with sharks that I understand is that they're not actually very interested in eating us. We're not that tasty. We're a lot of bones.

• 1:53:28Griffin Newman?

  True.

• 1:53:28David Sims?

  And instead, more what happens if a shark is attacking you is that it's kind of biting to find out what you are.

• 1:53:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:34David Sims?

  And then we'll probably let you go.

• 1:53:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:36David Sims?

  And then you're just bleeding to death because sharks are very powerful.

• 1:53:39Griffin Newman?

  Okay, but what I've learned from a lot of research, watching the movie Finding Nemo, is that if they smell blood, their eyes go all black. And all this sort of intellectualizing of fish are friends, not food, yes, goes out the window. And then you have Chum and Anchor, exactly, holding them by the.

• 1:53:55David Sims?

  Throw it all away, mate.

• 1:53:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:58David Sims?

  Uh, but obviously in Jaws, it feels like this shark has more of a fucking chip on his shoulder.

• 1:54:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:04David Sims?

  This guy's got kind of like an attitude problem.

• 1:54:06Griffin Newman?

  The fourth time it's personal, this shark seems to have some personal access.

• 1:54:09David Sims?

  This shark is basically like, you know what, Martha's Vineyard, these assholes, I've had enough.

• 1:54:13Griffin Newman?

  But isn't this the, like, the thing that's so great about the Shaw speech where you're just like, somehow this movie gets away with making this shark feel like a real shark and supernatural at the same time. I think every other shark movie, and like the shark movie subgenre is weirdly durable. And that like, it has very few classics, but also like every 18 months, some distributor that didn't exist two days earlier releases a shark movie with four actors you've never heard of, and it just quietly makes 45 million dollars.

• 1:54:46David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:54:46Griffin Newman?

  There is just kind of like a very high basement for shark movies.

• 1:54:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:54:51Griffin Newman?

  But almost all of them start to like. Pathologize the shark more, make the shark feel more magical or powerful or whatever it is.

• 1:55:02David Sims?

  Or there's movies like Deep Blue Sea where it's like, these are super sharks.

• 1:55:06Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 1:55:06David Sims?

  Like their brains have been supercharged.

• 1:55:08Griffin Newman?

  Right, Meg or whatever.

• 1:55:10David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:55:10Griffin Newman?

  This is a movie where you have Robert Shaw give that speech explaining what is scary about a shark. And what is so successful in that speech is him basically saying like, there's no rhyme or reason to this. They're just like an evolutionary like landmine.

• 1:55:26David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:55:27Griffin Newman?

  Oh. They're designed to make us terrified.

• 1:55:31Speaker 05

  Off of the New England thing, you mentioned that when we were like trying to figure out.

• 1:55:36David Sims?

  I was like, it's an iconic New England movie.

• 1:55:37Speaker 05

  And you mentioned, you were like, just because of your New England connection, it might be interesting for you to so to to come on for Jaws. And so I think with that in mind, just sort of going forward, I think I was trying, because again, what are you going to talk about when you talk about Jaws?

• 1:55:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:55:51Speaker 05

  I think a lot of the stuff that I kind of wrote down is like sort of trying to come at it with that point of view of like the from knowing a little bit about both like a tourist facing and local facing economy and community and the the sense of like, like they talk about it a lot at the beginning about like, you know, when will I ever be an islander or stuff like that.

• 1:56:14Griffin Newman?

  If I'm not mistaken, I think we had that conversation about how long does it take to become a mainer? In the Shining episode with you.

• 1:56:21David Sims?

  Sometimes you're never a mainer. We did talk about it a little bit, like even if you're you live there for 30 years and you raise your children there. It's like, yeah, but you weren't born here. And you said some fucking insane shit like homily about like baking in an oven or something.

• 1:56:36Speaker 05

  If the cat, just because the cat has kittens in the oven, don't make them biscuits. Like that just means your parents weren't born here.

• 1:56:42Griffin Newman?

  That is one of the smartest things ever said.

• 1:56:44Speaker 05

  I mean, it really, but I mean, like, there is a lot of that in here.

• 1:56:47Griffin Newman?

  Ben, there might be a new poet laureate in town.

• 1:56:49David Sims?

  I'm just, you just, but you said that last time, like I was supposed to go like, ah, yes, of course, as fucking Cicero once wrote. Like, you know, you just like drop that. I'm like, just because a cat, what?

• 1:56:58Griffin Newman?

  Better every time I hear it.

• 1:57:00David Sims?

  It does.

• 1:57:01Speaker 05

  But there is, there is, I, one thing that I really like about it is that there is a lot of specificity. To that and like.

• 1:57:08Griffin Newman?

  That is almost how we're introduced to the Brodys. I feel like it's like this second dialogue scene.

• 1:57:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, right.

• 1:57:15Griffin Newman?

  Is that sort of like her trying the accent and then being like, no, but actually you're never ever.

• 1:57:21Speaker 05

  You're you're never gonna get it.

• 1:57:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:23Speaker 05

  And and I I think that one thing that is interesting on this is that like, so my sister is like a small business owner. She has a bookstore and one thing that she has to combat all the time.

• 1:57:34Griffin Newman?

  Call out the store.

• 1:57:35Speaker 05

  Oh, it's called Hello Hello Books. It's in it's in Rockland, Maine, which is in sort of in the mid coast.

• 1:57:42Speaker 05

  And a really amazing town and it is it's sort of like halfway between bougie tourist destination. And just like mid coast, working class, main town.

• 1:57:55Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:57:56Speaker 05

  So there is always a push and pull about what you do for the year round community, but also understanding that there is a tourist community. And one thing that she constantly has to deal with is basically people from New York coming up, spending two minutes in her bookstore and then coming up and being like, you know what you should do? And she's like, I know what you should do. You should fuck off.

• 1:58:15Griffin Newman?

  Shut the fuck up.

• 1:58:16Speaker 05

  You should shut the fuck up.

• 1:58:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:17Speaker 05

  And I do think it's interesting that you have to make them New Yorkers.

• 1:58:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:58:22Speaker 05

  Immediately puts them at arm's length. So I'm not, is this not a defense of the mayor? But somebody from out of town coming up, telling you how you should run the town when they have only been there for a matter of months, I think is an interesting choice that whether or not he knew it was happening.

• 1:58:38Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:58:39Speaker 05

  It was interesting.

• 1:58:40Griffin Newman?

  Well, and even though Scheider is playing a much like milder, more empathetic version. Here's a guy who's like made a lot of like city cop movies.

• 1:58:52Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:58:53Griffin Newman?

  You know?

• 1:58:53Speaker 05

  And so he feels like a man, whatever, fish out of water.

• 1:58:57Griffin Newman?

  Like just the economy of the characterization in this movie, so many things like that where I'm like, in a modern movie, that would be three scenes where everyone says exactly what they're thinking.

• 1:59:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, right.

• 1:59:08Griffin Newman?

  And the backstory and it would start with him driving into the town and then being like, now, look, the locals might be a little hostile to you at first. And then you see it happen four times. And it's like, this is a movie in which all that characterization is done through action and behavior quickly.

• 1:59:25Speaker 05

  And not only that, like one thing that I have honestly, only since really listening to you guys talk about Spielberg, because I was never like. Somebody who I just always enjoyed his movies, but I never looked at them very closely.

• 1:59:37Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:59:38Speaker 05

  His use of space.

• 1:59:40Griffin Newman?

  Insane.

• 1:59:41Speaker 05

  And I think one of the amazing things about the opening of the movie is that when he is at the police station and they're like, he's like, I have to like run over to the store or go talk to somebody. They don't, he doesn't go and get in his car. They show him walk to that store, just to be like, this is how small this town is.

• 2:00:01Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:00:01Speaker 05

  That it is a much more use, is a much better use of your time to just walk rather than get in your car.

• 2:00:07Griffin Newman?

  Which tells you a ton.

• 2:00:08Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:00:09Griffin Newman?

  I mean, it's, look, it's much discussed and we will be talking about it for the next several months. But the Spielberg Warner is really a thing that no one else can touch. Because he does it in a way that is so unshowy, does not call attention to itself.

• 2:00:24David Sims?

  When, when someone points out to you that it exists when you're a younger film fan.

• 2:00:27Griffin Newman?

  You're like, no, there are cuts in that.

• 2:00:29David Sims?

  That's not what he does.

• 2:00:30Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:00:30David Sims?

  And then you see like, oh yeah, he does it right in this very unostentatious way.

• 2:00:34Griffin Newman?

  And they are always like in the name of simplicity. Oh, you know what? We could link these two moments together. That makes it one setup. We spend more time getting the performances right rather than needing to break this up and spend half a day on it.

• 2:00:46David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:00:47Griffin Newman?

  And he is able to communicate so much in the shifts of the blocking and positioning and physicality. Everyone's relationships to the space and it never feels ostentatious. The one that always blows my fucking mind when I watch this movie, I don't even know what the thing's called. But that like transportation, that thing they're on that's bringing the car.

• 2:01:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:01:07Griffin Newman?

  That like sort of like moving barge sort of thing.

• 2:01:10David Sims?

  Like a little ferry, yeah.

• 2:01:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, like a single car ferry.

• 2:01:13Griffin Newman?

  Right, like this shot that basically starts with him like pulling the car onto that, getting out. The thing is moving in water. The camera is moving slightly. They're moving in relation to each other. The entire dynamic of the mayor kind of like sussing him out.

• 2:01:28David Sims?

  It's called the Chappie ferry.

• 2:01:30Griffin Newman?

  It's insane.

• 2:01:31David Sims?

  In the movie, it's called the Amity on Time, but it exists. You can go visit it in Martha's Vineyard.

• 2:01:36Speaker 05

  What is it supposed to do?

• 2:01:38David Sims?

  Like transports, like a two to three cars, like total.

• 2:01:42Speaker 05

  It does also seem strange because in my, even just watching this last night, at the end, don't.

• 2:01:46David Sims?

  Have no cars or very few cars. Anyway, care.

• 2:01:48Speaker 05

  Doesn't like the car pull on and they pull out and then they just kind of end up at the exact same spot and then the car leaves?

• 2:01:54Griffin Newman?

  I mean, it's kind of like, it's the, the Goodfellas Copacabana thing where if you watch it, you're like, they move in a circle.

• 2:02:01David Sims?

  Right, right. Like if you actually think about the, what's happening.

• 2:02:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes, and it's not just that like someone needs to tell you, you can't tell. If you look for it, you're like, they basically start back where they enter. From the moment they enter through the side door, the entrance they'll end up going through to the theater is directly to their left.

• 2:02:19Speaker 05

  That's so great.

• 2:02:20Griffin Newman?

  And they just circle the kitchen one time and then go there.

• 2:02:23Speaker 05

  The, the one thing that I do will also say about the sort of like backstory and like the economy and the restraint of this, is that it's clear that Brody and his family have, have moved there and he's taken this job to get away from, and he kind of mentions it offhand of like, oh, there's violence in the city.

• 2:02:40David Sims?

  It's like, right, scaring 70s New York City is just not for him. He's got a kid. He wants to just settle down.

• 2:02:46Speaker 05

  And that, like, you know, that is a part of the story of like, oh, well, you can't ever escape the violence, you know, we thought we were gonna, but it's never really explicitly stated outside of him just kind of saying that New York in the 70s is kind of scary.

• 2:02:57David Sims?

  Here's the other thing.

• 2:02:58Griffin Newman?

  These kinds of movies used to just have so much more respect for the audience.

• 2:03:00Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:03:00Griffin Newman?

  They will figure it out, and it's the thing I love to say, but it's like, if you let the audience figure shit out, they like the movie more.

• 2:03:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:03:09Griffin Newman?

  They, they feel smart.

• 2:03:11David Sims?

  My question is, okay, his job now is like police chief in essentially a town in Martha's Vineyard, Amity, right? A shark kills somebody. Now, I know they don't know that it's a shark. But is that something you call the cops for? There is that moment later where Dr. Fisher or whoever is like, have you called the coast guard? And he's like, no, it was like local jurisdiction. I'm like, what were you gonna do? Arrest the fucking shark? Like, you're a policeman.

• 2:03:36Griffin Newman?

  They got guys in the back trying to develop shark handcuffs, doing R and D.

• 2:03:40David Sims?

  At what point are you like, this is a shark attack. I am now bringing in like, people who know about sharks. I am a policeman. I know about people crime.

• 2:03:49Griffin Newman?

  I do, that is a good.

• 2:03:50David Sims?

  If I got eaten by a shark, do I call the cops?

• 2:03:55Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I wonder.

• 2:03:55David Sims?

  Go at him.

• 2:03:56Griffin Newman?

  Well, but.

• 2:03:57Speaker 03

  Well, I would call nine one one.

• 2:03:59David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:04:00Griffin Newman?

  You're.

• 2:04:00David Sims?

  Call those guys for sure.

• 2:04:01Griffin Newman?

  You're right, but I think it says a lot about what the core themes of this movie are, especially the first half and the mayor and everything, that it's like, the concern is immediately, how do we communicate a sense of safety?

• 2:04:15David Sims?

  Your job is public safety.

• 2:04:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:16David Sims?

  How do you, how do you maintain public safety?

• 2:04:18Griffin Newman?

  Because I think there is this feeling of like, how do you solve this? I don't know. It's sad. It's a tragedy. A woman got eaten by a shark.

• 2:04:24David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:04:24Griffin Newman?

  This guy has to let everyone know that everything's okay.

• 2:04:26Speaker 03

  They should have had a scene where they had someone, uh, like sit with one of the victims and draw what the, the shark looked like.

• 2:04:36David Sims?

  Fin.

• 2:04:37Speaker 03

  And his teeth were sharp.

• 2:04:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:39Speaker 05

  Okay, okay.

• 2:04:40Griffin Newman?

  Kind of like a jawsy thing going on.

• 2:04:42David Sims?

  Yeah. Imagine like a paperback and I'm swimming up here. There's this big mouth.

• 2:04:47Griffin Newman?

  Like straight up.

• 2:04:48Speaker 05

  The initial. No, straight up.

• 2:04:49David Sims?

  Tension of jaws.

• 2:04:50Griffin Newman?

  The teeth are like this.

• 2:04:53Speaker 05

  Big.

• 2:04:53Griffin Newman?

  Almost like you're pulling the corners of your mouth down.

• 2:04:57David Sims?

  The initial tension of jaws.

• 2:04:59Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 2:04:59David Sims?

  Is that Brody's like, let's close the beaches. There's a shark.

• 2:05:02Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 2:05:03David Sims?

  And Major, Mayor Larry Vaughn. Uh, wonderful performance, in my opinion, by Murray Hamilton.

• 2:05:09Griffin Newman?

  And an incredible suit.

• 2:05:10David Sims?

  Uh, obviously an iconic suit. Howard Kramer always would say it's his favorite character because he refuses to close the beach.

• 2:05:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:17David Sims?

  Wants summer to continue.

• 2:05:19Speaker 05

  The, the thing about, I made a little note about that jacket that he's wearing, which he actually wears twice.

• 2:05:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:24Speaker 05

  In that there is, and this is again about the push pull of a public and public, but also tourist related area, is that the locals sometimes have to play into their own caricature.

• 2:05:38David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:05:39Speaker 05

  And I like that he is wearing that in that.

• 2:05:41David Sims?

  Right. He's not gonna be like, I'm a sober civic manager here.

• 2:05:45Speaker 05

  No.

• 2:05:45David Sims?

  He's like, I'm a mascot for a beach town.

• 2:05:47Speaker 05

  Yes. And I like that he is doing that. I like that they made that there is like, you know, whether or not he like really believes, he's like, there is an expectation of the people coming here of like a quaintness of, of like.

• 2:06:00David Sims?

  Well, and also he's like. We're not gonna pay our bills if we don't have the beach in the summer. Like, Amity is not exactly like a thriving metropolis in the winter. Like, we need, you cannot close our beach.

• 2:06:11Griffin Newman?

  Also, Brody comes here because he thinks this is gonna be an easier way of life, right? I think the immediate hostility from the locals is them being like, you're innately too intense. You at your lowest register, like, crime is not a real thing here. We need like fucking Andy Griffith to patrol the police, you know? We need like a Mayberry department. And like, I, either All That Jazz or Last Embrace, I said something about like, Roy Scheider being the tautest actor.

• 2:06:42David Sims?

  He's very taut. His skin seems kinda.

• 2:06:44Griffin Newman?

  It just, there is a physical tension to just his existence. Where I just see him showing up and I'm being like, God, just fuck it. Can this guy cool it? Can his face relax?

• 2:06:57Speaker 05

  And to the, to that point of him being too wound up, one thing that I like to then we does is like, it isn't just like, oh, he was right the whole time. He was right the whole time. Like, yeah, sharks are bad.

• 2:07:08Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:07:09Speaker 05

  But there were like.

• 2:07:10Griffin Newman?

  He took a really bold.

• 2:07:11Speaker 05

  Took a bold leap and said sharks are bad.

• 2:07:13David Sims?

  Shark attacks are scary.

• 2:07:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, there is an understanding in that, like, yes, it is the mayor trying to put his finger on the scale. But, like, they live next to the ocean.

• 2:07:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:25Speaker 05

  Like, these things are going to happen.

• 2:07:28Griffin Newman?

  It's inevitable.

• 2:07:28Speaker 05

  It's inevitable. You, you have to try to be as safe as you can, but this will never be a complete, like, without risk. And I like that he is like, yeah, maybe I am overreacting. And he does dial it down a little bit.

• 2:07:41David Sims?

  They put a little pressure on him. They kind of, the coroner's like, well, maybe it wasn't a shark.

• 2:07:45Griffin Newman?

  This is what I was trying to get at, though, with the magic of the shark never crossing into the supernatural. Is like, I, I err on Brody's side in most of what he's suggesting, how he reacts. But I do think after the first one, there is a logic to like, look, this is a beachside town.

• 2:08:02David Sims?

  It sucks. There's a shark attack every few years. Like, what can we do?

• 2:08:05Griffin Newman?

  It happens. We all hate sharks.

• 2:08:07David Sims?

  Tell everyone there was a shark attack maybe, and like, that's that.

• 2:08:10Griffin Newman?

  Right. But you see, even when shark attacks go up, you're just like, statistically, it is very low in probability that any of us will ever be eaten by a shark. But the more time you spend in the water, the likelihood increases a little bit. The more it goes on, the more he has to like really stand his ground of like, I have an obligation to do whatever I can to protect these people, even if it is only in communication. And the scene where everyone is like sort of in the press conference or whatever, the town meeting, asking him, is the beach gonna be closed down? And it almost feels like they're saying, they're waiting for him to say yes. They want the relief of he's taking care of us. He says yes, and they immediately all go ballistic.

• 2:08:55Griffin Newman?

  And the mayor just has to jump in and go like, for 24 hours. He's saying for 24 hours.

• 2:08:59Speaker 05

  Which again, not to, not to defend the mayor too much, but like after one shark attack.

• 2:09:05David Sims?

  This is what we're saying. It's like, maybe, maybe it's somewhat understandable until a boy explodes.

• 2:09:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes, right.

• 2:09:11David Sims?

  And in a movie with a lot of famous shots, I think that Scheider sitting on the beach in the zoom, you know, the Hitchcock zoom, the Dolly zoom.

• 2:09:19Griffin Newman?

  Look.

• 2:09:19David Sims?

  That's, that's right, the most famous shot in Jaws, right?

• 2:09:22Griffin Newman?

  It's that for me, and Jaws coming up.

• 2:09:23David Sims?

  Coming out of the water when they're.

• 2:09:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes, which is just so impeccably timed and framed.

• 2:09:27David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:09:27Griffin Newman?

  The Dolly zoom, it's not like that shot didn't exist and wasn't done well.

• 2:09:32David Sims?

  It's not like Spielberg's inventing it, right?

• 2:09:33Griffin Newman?

  It's perfectly applied, but also every time I watch it, I'm like, it might be the smoothest execution of it on a technical level. It is incredible how fast it is and just how like buttery it is.

• 2:09:46David Sims?

  Yes, exactly. It's so smooth. And it also really, just like the language of the movie, you're like, we are kind of entering the supernatural a little bit, right? Like, it does feel like it's like not supernatural in terms of like, this is a magic shark, but supernatural in terms of like, okay, now things are just not normal.

• 2:10:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:10:04David Sims?

  And like, that's like, it's like, he can no longer just do what we were just doing of like, it's a beach town.

• 2:10:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:10David Sims?

  Sharks exist in the water. I can't control everything. Now it's like, he's like, this is my fault.

• 2:10:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:15David Sims?

  Right? Like, so there's that horror to him. And also, it's like, this is something we can't control.

• 2:10:19Speaker 05

  I, I'm just, while we're talking about shots in that sequence, like, weirdly, again, this is like the most quotable line, like the most quotable lines from this movie might not even be the best performed. I honestly, I think there's a part of me that thinks my favorite shot from that sequence is like when you have like the sort of cross wipes of people walking in front of the camera and each time it gets closer to him.

• 2:10:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:10:44Speaker 05

  I felt like that. To me, it might be my-

• 2:10:47Griffin Newman?

  It is so subtly disorienting.

• 2:10:49Speaker 05

  Yes, and it's so it ramps up the tension of that. And this is a little bit of a young man thing. How well like this, I say like-

• 2:10:57David Sims?

  You young man.

• 2:10:58Speaker 05

  I am a young man. No, I'm like a young man director that I don't necessarily know if I love the choice, but I think maybe if it's in the seventies or whatever. Like, the audience expectation, that whole sequence starts out with a somewhat larger woman walking into the ocean. Almost as like, oh, well, this is the person. It's almost like a misdirect that this is the shark. I think that is intentional as much as I don't like that it feels a little fat shamy. You know what I mean?

• 2:11:22Griffin Newman?

  But also, you're just like, you just think he can't kill the kids.

• 2:11:27Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:11:28David Sims?

  And Spielberg has said, like, I wouldn't have the guts to do that now. Like, that's, that's young Spielberg. Like, having the guts to be like, yeah, you didn't see that coming, did you?

• 2:11:35Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 2:11:35Griffin Newman?

  Uh, what's gonna sound like a horrible side tangent, but I swear it's gonna become relevant very quickly. Uh, Jeff Daniels talks about when he was cast in the movie Speed. Spoilers for a thirty year old movie. Do you know the thing I'm gonna say?

• 2:11:48Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:11:48Griffin Newman?

  I've watched this clip like a million times.

• 2:11:50David Sims?

  Of course, Jeff Daniels, the spoiler is that he dies midway through Speed.

• 2:11:53Griffin Newman?

  So he has a moment where he discovers a bomb.

• 2:11:56David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:11:57Griffin Newman?

  And it's like, oh, this guy in the last second of his life recognizes I'm about to blow up.

• 2:12:03David Sims?

  He's in the, um, SWAT gear, and then we just like hold on his face for a second and then kaboom.

• 2:12:08Griffin Newman?

  Right. Spoilers. Jeff Daniels sees that in the script. It's like, how do I play this? Reaches out to Roy Scheider, who I think maybe he had worked with at that point, had some direct line to. And is like, I, in my mind's eye, this moment should be the moment of you pulling back after accidentally throwing the chum to Jaws. Right. How did you get there as an actor? Like, your reaction in that shot is so incredible. How did you get there? And Roy Scheider's like, here's the secret. I tensed up the muscles directly under my eyes and my cheekbones, and then on action, I just dropped them.

• 2:12:43David Sims?

  Mmm. Love that.

• 2:12:45Griffin Newman?

  And he was like, I wasn't thinking anything. It was just tension, release, done. And it is, they are the two most iconic shots in the movie. And they both, if you look at them, are just him doing that. Where for a guy who we've talked about is so tense to begin with, him just releasing a tiny bit.

• 2:13:05David Sims?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:13:07Griffin Newman?

  Is like such a holy shit, something's wrong for the audience.

• 2:13:11David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:13:12Speaker 05

  It like, one thing that I love about that quote is it sort of, it illuminates one of the things I love about filmmaking and film acting in that like, sometimes it can just be technical and I don't want to take emotion out of these things. But like, sometimes this is.

• 2:13:29Griffin Newman?

  The magic of it for me is the marriage of the things.

• 2:13:31Speaker 05

  Yes, that's the thing. And so when it is just like, what were you thinking? It doesn't matter what I was thinking. My face was tense and then I relaxed it. And that moment of Jeff Daniels in Speed, like it is a haunting shot. And it has haunted me since I was a kid who saw it and didn't really understand death or that somebody I liked might die.

• 2:13:51David Sims?

  Right, so brilliant in Speed because you're like, this guy's kind of the steady hand. He's the guy on the phone with Keanu, he's gonna help him out. And then he's like, he's gone.

• 2:13:57Griffin Newman?

  But that's why he correctly identified, I need to be the shider. Like it needs to have that, yeah.

• 2:14:01Speaker 05

  And I just, and so I love that that one simple technical, like musculature thing.

• 2:14:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:09Speaker 05

  Is what was able to communicate a much larger emotional moment, even though the emotion might not have been there.

• 2:14:15Griffin Newman?

  And you replay those two shots and the shift in his face is microscopic.

• 2:14:20David Sims?

  Yeah, it is. You, it's not like you can't really see what you're talking about.

• 2:14:23Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:14:23David Sims?

  But you can see an expression that feels like it lodges with you.

• 2:14:27Griffin Newman?

  Right, and you would think, oh, he must have been doing something under the hood emotionally.

• 2:14:31David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:14:32Griffin Newman?

  And this is a reflection of that conveying it. But he was totally just thinking in terms of technical technique. And I'm sure you've, you're a phenomenal actor, Tim. But I'm sure you've had this experience where you're like on set trying to crack a scene and you're like, I just gotta load so much under there. So it's like coming out of my eyes and I want to underplay it, but I'm just trying to fill up. And then you look at it and you're like, none of this comes across.

• 2:14:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:54Griffin Newman?

  Not like I'm doing too much, but just all this shit I was internalizing, none of it reads.

• 2:14:59David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:00Griffin Newman?

  And then sometimes you're like, I just looked at the light. Like, there's a big, bright light here. And if I look at it, and my eyes are a little bloodshot right before they call action, it is a thousand percent more impactful than if I think about everyone I know who died.

• 2:15:14Speaker 05

  Yes, I, I, I mean, like, and again, I don't wanna, like, take out those things because I think they have been incredibly helpful. Sometimes it absolutely works, but.

• 2:15:22Griffin Newman?

  And, and it's magical in a way where you're like, I had to put myself through that.

• 2:15:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:15:27Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:15:27Speaker 05

  But also, it doesn't necessarily guarantee that the thing is gonna be good. Sometimes it is, just look at the light. Sometimes it is, you just have to be still and then you just have to shift.

• 2:15:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:15:36Speaker 05

  Shift your face a little bit.

• 2:15:37Griffin Newman?

  A tiny bit.

• 2:15:38Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:15:38Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:15:40Speaker 05

  David, do you love it when actors talk about acting?

• 2:15:42Griffin Newman?

  You love actors.

• 2:15:43David Sims?

  I'd zone out so hard.

• 2:15:45Griffin Newman?

  It's very interesting. No, I don't hate actors. He's waiting for AI to replace actors in movies. And then he's finally gonna like the art form.

• 2:15:50David Sims?

  I just want all movies to be the Lego movie with Pharrell.

• 2:15:54Griffin Newman?

  Piece by piece?

• 2:15:55David Sims?

  Yeah, it's just like, let's have that be all movies now, just Legos can be the actors.

• 2:15:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:00David Sims?

  The Death of the Kid is what brings in Quint. Because there's sort of a shark bounty now.

• 2:16:05Griffin Newman?

  Screech.

• 2:16:06David Sims?

  Exactly, and Hooper.

• 2:16:09Griffin Newman?

  One of the greatest character introductions of all time.

• 2:16:11David Sims?

  Yes, I probably first knew the Simpsons version of it, I think, and then I learned this version of it after the fact, true of so many movie things for me. And then Hooper, who's basically coming in being like, I am Mr. Shark. And I can tell you that the shark that killed this person is very large and abnormal. Like, this is, I, you know, I'm the shark expert. And Quint's like, and I'm the shark catcher. And I can tell you that it's, the sharks are scary.

• 2:16:35Griffin Newman?

  I just love that they punt Quint for like forty minutes.

• 2:16:39David Sims?

  Yeah, you put him in there, he's in the mix, and then, right, we'll check in with him later.

• 2:16:42Griffin Newman?

  His introduction is so explosive, and you're like, so now the movie is his? And you're like, no, they all just go like, fuck off.

• 2:16:47Speaker 03

  The air gets salty.

• 2:16:49Griffin Newman?

  It does.

• 2:16:49Speaker 03

  It does. Wherever you are.

• 2:16:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:51Speaker 05

  When, one of the first things that he says, which is in the monologue that you did at the top of this, again, I wanna reiterate, great job.

• 2:16:58Griffin Newman?

  And thank you, and that was an example of me really filling up and loading in as much sense memory as I could in all my feelings, thank you.

• 2:17:04Speaker 05

  I think one of the first things that he says is, you all know me, you know what I do. Yeah.

• 2:17:09Griffin Newman?

  And, oh.

• 2:17:10Speaker 05

  I'd so fuck.

• 2:17:10Griffin Newman?

  Talk about fucking economic characterization. There's so much said in this guy introducing himself by being like, you know, my fucking deal. And you're like, oh, this guy's been annoying this town forever.

• 2:17:20Speaker 05

  Yes, and I love, again, this is another sort of like coastal Maine thing of like, of like, the charm of the town is what draws the tourists, but also we want to try to keep the actual workmen of this town. Like, we don't want you to see that. We want to somehow sweep this under the rug so you get the sense that even the, like, the locals have locals.

• 2:17:42Griffin Newman?

  And like Murray Franklin trying to get Brody to take it easy also feels like, hey, look, we got this fucking guy who all the time is like scratching chalkboards, delivering soliloquies.

• 2:17:56David Sims?

  Right, if there's a real shark problem, we elevate it up to Quint.

• 2:17:59Griffin Newman?

  But also that he's just like, we always have these overzealous guys who want to go on and on about sharks and we just fucking calm them down and ignore them.

• 2:18:09David Sims?

  What we really care about here is lollipops and.

• 2:18:12Speaker 05

  And saltwater taffy.

• 2:18:14David Sims?

  Right, taffy and like small roller coasters. I don't know what they do.

• 2:18:18Speaker 05

  It's like, there's like, I think there is something in that, again, even if it's not the main point, I think there is something interesting there about class. There's not only the class of people that's coming to the town, there's the class of people that live there and then they are, and they all kind of look down on the class that Quint comes from.

• 2:18:35David Sims?

  Yes, the true salty sea dog types.

• 2:18:37Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:18:38David Sims?

  Not, not like a sort of suit wearing landlubbers.

• 2:18:41Griffin Newman?

  But also you're like, guys like this, ostensibly, you have to imagine, run the economy the other eight or nine months out of the year.

• 2:18:49David Sims?

  Yeah, fisher.

• 2:18:50Griffin Newman?

  You're like, I'm sure this town's economy is like overwhelmingly the summer vacation tourist months, but the rest of the year it's fucking exporting fish, right?

• 2:18:58David Sims?

  Like off season, like, you know, I remember any place you go that's seasonal and you go to like some nice restaurant and you're like, you know, it's like, yeah, in the off season, this restaurant kind of just turns into like a burger place or whatever, because it's like the clientele completely changes, like that's how life is in any vacation.

• 2:19:14Speaker 05

  And some of them might not even, they're just like, yeah, in October, we close. It's like nobody. Here is employed between October and

• 2:19:21David Sims?

  I'm thinking, because I know the Adirondacks best. And the Adirondacks has this thing of like, in the summer, it's like this, summer crowds, right? Boating and whatever, water skiing and hiking. And then in the winter, it's snowmobilers is the people who like are in there in the winter. And like, that's an entirely different clientele. Like, they don't, yeah, anyway. Snowmobilers, what a world.

• 2:19:42Speaker 05

  Not to skip too far ahead, but I think that class thing, I really noticed it this time when Brody's wife, he's about to get on the boat with Quinn and Quinn is singing the rhyme about virginity, like, you know, the old, you know, the kind of sea shanty rhyme or whatever.

• 2:19:58David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:59Speaker 05

  In that you kind of see how annoying he could be to the community. And her reaction is like, it seems filled with, not only is my husband going to go out on a boat to try to find a killer shark that could kill him. He is also terrified of water. I don't know when he's going to be back. And also, he's going to be on the boat with this fucking guy. This fucking guy who's talking about a 15 year old losing his virginity, which is pretty remarkable in this vicinity.

• 2:20:25Griffin Newman?

  He's gonna be playing Rogan all day on the boat.

• 2:20:28Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:20:29Griffin Newman?

  Shire's gonna come back and be like, you made some interesting points.

• 2:20:36Speaker 06

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• 2:21:10David Sims?

  You've also got Hooper. And with Hooper, we have this, to me, classic Spielberg sequence where it's like, let's have him find the dead body, you know, of the fisherman in the most fun.

• 2:21:24David Sims?

  Way possible for, you know, the audience is kind of relaxing for like an undersea moment, right? Where they're like, this is like an exploration moment, not like a Jaws moment, right? And then like his head pops out and his eyes falling out.

• 2:21:36Griffin Newman?

  Unbelievable.

• 2:21:37David Sims?

  And everyone like jumps, screams, and then to me, most importantly, laughs. Like, the whole audience laughs, because they're just like, oh, you got us again!

• 2:21:46Griffin Newman?

  I'd say it's also the only image in the movie that like goes into full like EC Comics.

• 2:21:52David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:53Griffin Newman?

  You know, like horror.

• 2:21:54David Sims?

  It's more like, right, Kormany in a way, too. It's like more R-rated. This film is hilarious, it's rated PG, which is funny, because it has like nudity.

• 2:22:01Speaker 05

  This one wasn't the one that created PG 13. Was that Raiders?

• 2:22:04David Sims?

  It's more like Temple of Doom: Gremlins, mid 80s. Yeah. Back then, it was just kind of like, look, there's R-rated movies, there's PG, which is basically like, I don't know, bring your kids if you want to.

• 2:22:14Griffin Newman?

  Right. And R-rated movies were like, save for just if a film mentioned communism. That would get an R-rated.

• 2:22:19David Sims?

  Right. It's like, uh, this film has divorce in it. Rated R. You know, like, something like that.

• 2:22:25Griffin Newman?

  Right. And you put boobs in a movie.

• 2:22:27David Sims?

  It's like, yeah, tits and blood, PG.

• 2:22:28Griffin Newman?

  That's the funny thing, is you put tits in a movie and people will be like, well, I guess it can't be G.

• 2:22:33David Sims?

  Right. And then, right, yeah, exactly. Like, Lawrence of Arabia, they're like, yeah, it's probably a G, who cares?

• 2:22:37Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:22:37David Sims?

  I don't know. Like, there's some movies that are G. Like, I think like Star Trek: The Motion Picture is a G. Like, there's things like that, where they're just kind of like, I don't know, I didn't see anything too crazy happen, I guess it's a G.

• 2:22:46Griffin Newman?

  It is wild how few G-movies there are now, where PG has basically become G.

• 2:22:52David Sims?

  Yeah, because now-

• 2:22:53Griffin Newman?

  And even that doesn't exist that much.

• 2:22:55David Sims?

  Now, like, Peril qualifies you for like a PG or whatever. I don't know.

• 2:22:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, like Paw Patrol is PG, because, you know, it runs the risk of making them cry.

• 2:23:02Speaker 03

  That turtle-

• 2:23:03Griffin Newman?

  That's what I'm saying!

• 2:23:04Speaker 03

  Is on the edge of falling off the bridge.

• 2:23:07David Sims?

  Um, yes.

• 2:23:08Speaker 05

  Uh, that moment, even last night when I was watching it, I had forgotten it was coming, and I jumped.

• 2:23:13David Sims?

  It's a great, it's the best jump.

• 2:23:15Speaker 03

  His one eye is floating.

• 2:23:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:23:18Speaker 03

  Along with his head.

• 2:23:20Griffin Newman?

  And a bunch of fucking maggots.

• 2:23:22Speaker 03

  Right. But the question is, was he so scared that his eye popped out of his head?

• 2:23:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:28Speaker 03

  Because how else did it get out?

• 2:23:30Griffin Newman?

  That's his fright feature.

• 2:23:31David Sims?

  I think some, you know, some fishies might have been nibbling on it.

• 2:23:34Speaker 03

  Oh, sure. It loosened it up a little.

• 2:23:36Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's headcanon, David. You can't support that.

• 2:23:38David Sims?

  Yep. Um, I mean, I guess you're not like relaxed in that sequence. He is exploring a wreck or you just don't think that's gonna happen.

• 2:23:46Griffin Newman?

  No. I like that there's this sort of like escalation to the frenzy of the shark becoming a fun thing because it starts to be perceived as like a potential winning lottery ticket for the locals.

• 2:23:58David Sims?

  Right. Are you in a way of sort of like, are you tough enough in a way?

• 2:24:01Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:24:01David Sims?

  Yeah. Like when, when Quin's looks to his son, like, go in the lagoon, please. He's like, no, that's for like old ladies. Like, I don't want to go there.

• 2:24:09Griffin Newman?

  But this is where I'm like, it's, it's the shit that like reminded me so much of the various stages of like the fucking COVID experience. Where there's this thing of like, oh, what? So are you one of these guys who's fucking scared? You're gonna wear a mask in public? You know, like that whole kind of thing where you're like, there are these like dueling public narratives of how we should respond to this, that then becomes like a reflection on the individual and everyone getting in their head of like, what do I want to project to others?

• 2:24:42Speaker 05

  I want to throw out a couple of moments that I had, uh, two things that I really liked. Uh, one was a sort of character, one for the wife. Who is sort of eventually, especially once they get out on the water, sort of forgotten, but I do like the moment she has leading up to that. At one point, I think when, when Hooper comes over to the house, uh, he says, is your husband home? I'd really like to talk to him. And she says, so would I? Just, and I like that that's just a very simple moment that we don't really dwell on, but it's clear he's been in his fucking head and not.

• 2:25:13Griffin Newman?

  Moment with him in the sun.

• 2:25:14Speaker 05

  Right.

• 2:25:14Griffin Newman?

  It's such an important like reset moment for the movie.

• 2:25:18Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:25:18Griffin Newman?

  And I feel like is infamously one of those things that Spielberg kind of just discovered on set. There was no moment like that in the script. And what could just be a scene of like fucking Brody being inconsolable after this child death becomes this like.

• 2:25:35Griffin Newman?

  He needs to keep going moment. You have this small moment of humanity and human connection in a way where like his wife can't reach him because she's trying to talk to him like an adult.

• 2:25:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:25:44Griffin Newman?

  And she is like too deep in grief.

• 2:25:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:25:47Griffin Newman?

  But his son just mirroring his faces kinda just breaks through.

• 2:25:50Speaker 05

  Ah, it's so great.

• 2:25:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:51Speaker 05

  And I also love, he says something at one point where it's like, uh, Hooper says like, why do you live on an island if you're so scared of the water? And he says, it only looks like an island if you look at it from the water.

• 2:26:01David Sims?

  That's true.

• 2:26:01Speaker 05

  I don't know what, I mean, I just really.

• 2:26:03David Sims?

  I love that. I mean, but it's so true. Like so many people who live, I feel like in island communities, like I don't learn to swim. Like that's where I don't go. I live in the islands, like not, not on the land.

• 2:26:11Griffin Newman?

  Land, emphasis on land.

• 2:26:12David Sims?

  Um, anyway, right. This is, we're now, we're, we're about to transition into the, the mega final act, like the last hour of the movie.

• 2:26:20Griffin Newman?

  Just call out, cause she's about to disappear from the rest of the movie.

• 2:26:22David Sims?

  Lorraine Gary.

• 2:26:23Griffin Newman?

  Lorraine Gary.

• 2:26:24David Sims?

  The wife of Sidney Sheinberg.

• 2:26:25Griffin Newman?

  Who is the president of Universal all the time?

• 2:26:27David Sims?

  Uh, yes, sure.

• 2:26:29Griffin Newman?

  Um, and then she becomes the like main connective tissue through all the sequels.

• 2:26:36David Sims?

  Jaws one, two, and four. She's not in three. Four is her fun, revenge is her final film role.

• 2:26:41Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:26:42David Sims?

  And that was like a, I think a small role, like, cause she had basically, basically.

• 2:26:47Griffin Newman?

  The son is played by a different actor in every movie, right? Cause Dennis Quaid is him in three and Lance Guest from Last Starfighter, I think is him in revenge.

• 2:26:54David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 2:26:55Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:26:55Speaker 05

  That's, those are fucking deep pulls.

• 2:26:57David Sims?

  Jesus Christ, Griffin. But her movie roles are Jaws, uh, she has a tiny role in Car Wash. She's in I Never Promise You A Rose Garden in some sort of mid-sized role. Uh, she's in a comedy called Zero to Sixty with a tiny role. Uh, so then she's in Jaws Two.

• 2:27:15Griffin Newman?

  Over the title, above the title.

• 2:27:16David Sims?

  Nineteen forty-one, uh, which is, uh, and then a, uh, George Burns movie called, uh, It's Just You and Me, Kid. And then she retires.

• 2:27:22Speaker 05

  Also kinda feels like the name of.

• 2:27:23David Sims?

  From the revenge, uh, Jaws, The Revenge is sort of like a hat tip.

• 2:27:26Griffin Newman?

  I know.

• 2:27:27David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:27:27Speaker 05

  The, uh, it also kinda feels like the name of every George Burns movie. I don't.

• 2:27:31David Sims?

  Yeah, Just You and Me, Kid.

• 2:27:32Speaker 05

  Just You and Me, Kid.

• 2:27:34David Sims?

  Um, but she's good. I mean, like as much as right, she's sort of this odd kind of nepo-y higher she is. She's good. She's very effective in the movie.

• 2:27:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I agree. I think she's incredibly good. Yeah.

• 2:27:43David Sims?

  But yes, okay, like. After the final bit sequence with the kids pretending to be the shark and then like the Jaws actually shows up at the other end.

• 2:27:50Griffin Newman?

  And another like cut out the fucking shoe leather thing that like, you know.

• 2:27:54David Sims?

  We don't see the aftermath of that. We get that.

• 2:27:57Griffin Newman?

  Well, you have your scene with Brody and the mayor.

• 2:27:59David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:28:00Griffin Newman?

  Where he has his unraveling of like, my son was on that beach. Like it finally hits him. He doesn't become like, quote unquote, a good guy, but he also was never coded as just simply a bad guy. But he's like, starting to process enough that Brody just goes like, you have to give me the money.

• 2:28:15David Sims?

  Right. We're gonna hire Quint. We're gonna go get the shark.

• 2:28:18Griffin Newman?

  Jump straight to basically, we're getting on the boat.

• 2:28:20David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:28:20Griffin Newman?

  Like, it's like, the whole movie has been the, the, holding back on activating Quint. And he's just like, give me the fucking cash. Hard cut to.

• 2:28:30Speaker 05

  So I recently re-listened to the Interstellar, uh, episode you guys did.

• 2:28:35David Sims?

  I talk about this a lot on the Interstellar episode, right?

• 2:28:37Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 2:28:38David Sims?

  How it jumps from, not Jaws.

• 2:28:39Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 2:28:40David Sims?

  But like how it jumps from, this is a big point for me about what's so brilliant about Interstellar.

• 2:28:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:44David Sims?

  From, you know, are you going to, like here, you've figured out what we're doing here at NASA to the, the things taking off.

• 2:28:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:51Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:28:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:28:52David Sims?

  And like, there's no like prep or like, here, meet everybody or here's what it's just.

• 2:28:56Griffin Newman?

  From him driving off in the car crying to the rocket.

• 2:28:59David Sims?

  The rocket's shooting.

• 2:29:00Griffin Newman?

  Rocket shooting up.

• 2:29:01Speaker 05

  Rules. And even though they do a little bit of, you know, they, I think they have the moment that we were talking about with the rhyme. I think that might be after the sailboat.

• 2:29:09David Sims?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 2:29:09Speaker 05

  But there is that moment sort of through the pier when it, like it is sort of zooming slowly in on the ocean. And it reminded me of that Interstellar thing, cause it was like, it is undeniable now.

• 2:29:21David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:29:21Speaker 05

  The movie has to go to the ocean and it is sort of pulling you out underneath the pier. And you're sort of leaving the safety of land and going out into the water. And very soon after that, we were just out on the water.

• 2:29:31David Sims?

  And obviously Spielberg was right in that you do feel like you're out on the open ocean.

• 2:29:35Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:29:35David Sims?

  It does feel different. You feel like you're in a new environment.

• 2:29:38Griffin Newman?

  Totally. But also, like, how many fucking movies and, and scripts do you read where you're like, why is this scene in it? Outside of some feeling that it must be in there, you know? Like this notion of, I guess you gotta show how this happened. And you're like, but in reality, showing that scene does not give the audience any new information. And it's not entertaining.

• 2:30:00David Sims?

  It's the William Goldman thing of like, don't show someone trying to hail a cab.

• 2:30:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:30:03David Sims?

  Like they either put their hand out and a cab arrives because you need them to get in a cab.

• 2:30:07Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:30:07David Sims?

  Or you're writing a scene about how hard it is to hail the cab, in which case that better be pretty pivotal to part of your movie.

• 2:30:13Griffin Newman?

  Right, right.

• 2:30:14David Sims?

  Like, I don't need two minutes to someone being like, oh my god, you know, like, you know, like, just obviously, like, you're allowed to break the laws sometimes. Just like, he puts his hand out, he gets a cab.

• 2:30:22Griffin Newman?

  But also, like, fucking, uh, Quint feels like the inevitable.

• 2:30:27David Sims?

  Yeah, you're right.

• 2:30:28Griffin Newman?

  You're surprised that they spent this long avoiding him.

• 2:30:30David Sims?

  But now we're with them.

• 2:30:31Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:30:31David Sims?

  And now we're in his world.

• 2:30:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:30:34David Sims?

  And now, uh.

• 2:30:35Griffin Newman?

  They're both.

• 2:30:36David Sims?

  Cooper is kind of trying to prove himself to Quint, like you say, and Brody is kind of like, now I'm stuck on this fucking boat. I'm like, I'm land man.

• 2:30:43Griffin Newman?

  I hate this.

• 2:30:44David Sims?

  I hate this. And like, the chum moment that we already talked about with Jaws popping out, he's complaining about, like, he's like, I know how to drive boat. I can like, go full ahead or whatever, like, and then, you know, instead I'm doing this shit. And then, of course, that's when Jaws is like, by the way.

• 2:30:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:30:58David Sims?

  Hello?

• 2:30:59Griffin Newman?

  I do love, just to jump back one last second, but the, the last pre-boat thing I want to call out. The whole, like, narrative cul-de-sac around the guys successfully catching the shark and everyone doing basically like the full parade. Being the like George Bush, mission accomplished thing of like, we are telling you that we have defeated the problem. And Brody and Cooper both just being like, well, Cooper recognizing the bites are conferences wrong. Saying it to Brody, Brody relaying it. Like, it's such a good, oh, this is the moment that these two guys are gonna be inextricably linked.

• 2:31:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:33Griffin Newman?

  That they share this and no one else listens, and they're the only two who are concerned and won't accept this.

• 2:31:38Speaker 05

  And I also love that whoever's taking the picture basically says, get out of the picture, nerd.

• 2:31:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you're fucking this up.

• 2:31:45Speaker 05

  You're fucking this up, get out of there, because he's still trying to measure the fucking bite, and they're like, get out.

• 2:31:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:31:51Griffin Newman?

  But you're right, you cut to the high seas and it's like, the movie immediately feels so different.

• 2:31:57David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:58Griffin Newman?

  And also now, like Shaw is controlling the tone of the film.

• 2:32:02David Sims?

  He is.

• 2:32:03Griffin Newman?

  As an actor, which is what makes the performance so seismic.

• 2:32:06David Sims?

  Right, and that's sort of a crucial point is when he like smashes the radio because he's like, no, no, like, this is me.

• 2:32:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:12David Sims?

  Taking on this shark. We're not calling the coast guard or whatever. Cause what should happen is, right, someone just comes in and like machine guns this thing. Like, it's like, it's a, this is a problem shark. This is not a regular situation.

• 2:32:22Speaker 03

  It's a great white shark.

• 2:32:24David Sims?

  It's a great white shark.

• 2:32:25Griffin Newman?

  It's a fantastic white shark.

• 2:32:26Speaker 05

  I do kinda love when, right at the beginning, you see how nervous they are when basically like, Quinn is basically just treating this like any other fishing trip.

• 2:32:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:36Speaker 05

  He's just fucking like ripping beers and like he's got an actual fucking fishing pole.

• 2:32:43David Sims?

  Also, their plan is just like, put chum around, the shark will show up and we shoot harpoons at it and shit, right? Like, they don't have like a complex plan, really.

• 2:32:50Speaker 03

  But he's gonna try and catch it with the giant fishing pole at some point. It seems like that's part of his plan.

• 2:32:55David Sims?

  Cooper's plan is like, I'll inject it with strychnine where it's like, what?

• 2:32:59Speaker 05

  And also like, I mean, Brody has like a very cop plan at one point when he's just like, what if I just shoot at it? What if I just unload?

• 2:33:07David Sims?

  It's just for, like, I don't know how people deal with sharks. I'm not a shark expert, but it just kinda suggests to me that, right, no one really has a foolproof like shark problem. Here's your shark solution.

• 2:33:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, Brody's treating it like somebody was trying to hop the turnstile in the fucking subway.

• 2:33:21Griffin Newman?

  Well, and Quinn has this very interesting strategy. His sort of whole approach to shark killing is, I watched all of my friends get eaten by sharks across three days. And now I'm insane.

• 2:33:34Griffin Newman?

  Right? Like, it is, what is so great about the monologue is it kind of explains him in a way that also doesn't feel too neat. Cause you're like, oh, this is his backstory. This is why it's personal, right? This is why this guy has devoted his life. But also you're like, oh, but this guy also lost his mind in this moment.

• 2:33:52David Sims?

  He's not just got like a regular problem with sharks because they eat people. He's got a really, really big thing about sharks.

• 2:33:59Griffin Newman?

  Right. And it's a kind of the only thing that makes. Makes him happiest to watch a shark die. Like, that's my read on it. Isn't like, for every shark I kill, I bring back the spirit of one of my friends. Like, there's no, like, mental calculation.

• 2:34:13David Sims?

  And he's also not like, I really want the good people of Amity to, like, be able to go to the beach.

• 2:34:17Griffin Newman?

  He hates those fucking people.

• 2:34:19David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:34:19Griffin Newman?

  He sings dirty limericks at them from his boat.

• 2:34:22Speaker 05

  He likes too, too ma- and demands apricot brandy and sings bad songs simply to make them uncomfortable. Like, you know me, you know what I do. Like, yeah, you go fucking crazy all the time about sharks.

• 2:34:36Griffin Newman?

  Dare I say it, Tim? Does Robert Shaw's performance as Quentin Jaws remind you at all of a And I Think You Should Leave sketch? There is kind of a Tim Robinson energy here.

• 2:34:47David Sims?

  Which one, though?

• 2:34:48Griffin Newman?

  Just demanding apricot brandy. Doing things his own way.

• 2:34:55Speaker 05

  Are we gonna, can we try to get that back?

• 2:34:57Griffin Newman?

  I just need to pick up the fucking ball and run with it.

• 2:35:00Speaker 05

  Which fucking sketch, though, that's not jumping out to me?

• 2:35:03Griffin Newman?

  The first one I jump to is the Tim Heidecker charade sketch, but that, that's not even Tim Robinson.

• 2:35:10Griffin Newman?

  But I do feel like there's that kind of, like, bullheadedness.

• 2:35:13David Sims?

  Yeah, but that's still, that's a very different type.

• 2:35:15Griffin Newman?

  David, this is a side conversation we're having.

• 2:35:16Speaker 05

  Are we doing this just to annoy David? Because if so, I'm very happy about it.

• 2:35:20David Sims?

  I find it quite annoying. No, no, but no, but here's the-

• 2:35:23Griffin Newman?

  Should I bring up the Carson Daly article?

• 2:35:25David Sims?

  Here's the reason that this doesn't work. The Tim Robinson thing really is something that a lot of people independently bring up, especially about George C. Scott and Dr. Strangelove.

• 2:35:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I do think we were kind of the first ones to bring it up.

• 2:35:36David Sims?

  Right, exactly. No, we definitely- But I think you're kind of forcing it on this one. Like, Tim Robinson-

• 2:35:40Griffin Newman?

  Feels pretty organic, pretty natural, pretty smooth.

• 2:35:43Speaker 05

  One thing, it's almost, this, weirdly, this Robert Shaw performance is almost like, when he does those two monologues, is almost so grounded.

• 2:35:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:53Speaker 05

  That you can't put the Tim Robinson thing on it. I'm not saying that-

• 2:35:56Griffin Newman?

  Maybe it's too small a slice, because there's a, there's a certain energy to which he imbues that.

• 2:36:01Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 2:36:01Griffin Newman?

  With the feeling of it being the most important thing in the world, and then he also dies a shocking death.

• 2:36:05Speaker 05

  You know what?

• 2:36:06Griffin Newman?

  Spoilers for I Think You Should Leave.

• 2:36:07Speaker 05

  You know what?

• 2:36:08Griffin Newman?

  It's the Too Small Slice.

• 2:36:09Speaker 05

  It is. It's Too Small Slice. Robert Shaw is kind of ripping off Too Small a Slice in these.

• 2:36:14Griffin Newman?

  He's ripping it off?

• 2:36:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:36:16Griffin Newman?

  They use Too Small a Slice.

• 2:36:17Speaker 05

  David is fully just, like, checking email.

• 2:36:19Griffin Newman?

  There is one scene where Robert Shaw eats the gift receipt.

• 2:36:23Speaker 05

  For the apricot brandy?

• 2:36:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:26Speaker 05

  And then he makes Brody, like Hooper does like the scientific thing where he makes, he eats one and then he eats the other one. He's like, no, he touched it.

• 2:36:37David Sims?

  So.

• 2:36:37Griffin Newman?

  Apricot branches is just really funny.

• 2:36:39Speaker 05

  It really is. He's like a whole case. Like, how long are they going out there? This dude's gonna drink.

• 2:36:44Griffin Newman?

  He's never coming back.

• 2:36:45Speaker 05

  He's never coming.

• 2:36:46David Sims?

  How long are they out there? Just a night, two nights? What are we talking about here?

• 2:36:50Griffin Newman?

  But that's what I love. I love that it's like, it becomes abstract.

• 2:36:53Speaker 05

  And also, like, in some of the reverse shots of the boat, like, later on, they're like, kinda not that far out. You can see the island.

• 2:37:01Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:37:01David Sims?

  Well, cuz I think shark attacks and stuff happen close, obviously, close to shore, cuz people go that far out.

• 2:37:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:37:07David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:08Speaker 05

  I wanna throw out a shot that is just incredible of Robert Shaw on the pulpit with the sun behind him. Which just, again, like, it's an unbelievable, it just doesn't have to go that hard, and it does.

• 2:37:23Griffin Newman?

  Let's just say, more generally, this is one of the all-time great movie looks.

• 2:37:28Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:37:29Griffin Newman?

  Quint is just like a perfect-looking character.

• 2:37:33Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 2:37:33Griffin Newman?

  And a lot of it is like Robert Shaw's face, his like captivating eyes.

• 2:37:38David Sims?

  Big nose.

• 2:37:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but then like, the facial hair, the outfit.

• 2:37:44Speaker 05

  The fucking hat with like the.

• 2:37:45Griffin Newman?

  The weirdest bend in the brim.

• 2:37:47David Sims?

  Yeah, the kind of very, the peak.

• 2:37:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but it's like off-center and like a really sharp angle.

• 2:37:55David Sims?

  There's the Indianapolis monologue, obviously. The shark chase sequence is incredibly exciting.

• 2:37:59Speaker 03

  The friggin' fishing, and it's thrilling somehow. Fishing's not thrilling.

• 2:38:04David Sims?

  But like the long sequence of Shaw setting up the fishing line while like, no one's really paying attention to what he's doing.

• 2:38:12Speaker 05

  Oh yeah, when it's just like the little clicks of the thing.

• 2:38:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and that belt, his whole harness.

• 2:38:17Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 2:38:17Griffin Newman?

  I love that shit.

• 2:38:18Speaker 05

  The barrel thing we mentioned, obviously, is sort of a brilliant workaround that just like, sort of makes the movie better.

• 2:38:24David Sims?

  They introduce the idea of it's explosive.

• 2:38:27Griffin Newman?

  He's gonna do it, we'll get to it.

• 2:38:28David Sims?

  The pressure tanks.

• 2:38:30Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. He pulled the wrong, pulled the wrong side of like the sheep shank or whatever.

• 2:38:35David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:38:35Speaker 05

  And then it like, we establish that the tanks are explosive.

• 2:38:39David Sims?

  Right. What am I going to do?

• 2:38:42Griffin Newman?

  It's Jaws. They kill the shark. What do you want from me?

• 2:38:44David Sims?

  I mean, it is true.

• 2:38:46Speaker 03

  It's a shark. It eats him. What do you want?

• 2:38:48David Sims?

  Well, because there is like-

• 2:38:49Griffin Newman?

  It is the barrels. The blow up his face.

• 2:38:51David Sims?

  It's true that there is only so, because like in the book, both, everyone, in the book, everyone except for, um, Brody dies.

• 2:38:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:38:58David Sims?

  So Richard Dreyfuss, yeah, Hooper dies too.

• 2:39:00Griffin Newman?

  It is one of the mirrors of like this and Jurassic, where in both cases, you're like, the character who dies in the book. Let's have him make it to the end. And they're the same character.

• 2:39:09David Sims?

  Same sort of version of the, you're right, you're right, right. Um, but in the book also, they just sort of wound the shark enough that it finally dies. It's a little underwhelming. And Spielberg was like, I think we should like explode the shark.

• 2:39:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:21David Sims?

  Really good idea.

• 2:39:22Griffin Newman?

  You know what else is great about it?

• 2:39:24David Sims?

  Smile, you son of a bitch.

• 2:39:25Griffin Newman?

  Sure. But also, I feel in the movie, a catharsis to them blowing up this fucking thing.

• 2:39:34David Sims?

  I mean, the, the blow up-

• 2:39:35Griffin Newman?

  Like the filmmakers.

• 2:39:37David Sims?

  Right. Where they're like, they, right, they never have to work with that thing again.

• 2:39:40Griffin Newman?

  Right. To be like, fucking picture wrap on shark, done.

• 2:39:44David Sims?

  Um, hundred percent. The, obviously, an underrated, but such crucial little choice. And I'm not saying that we're done talking, but you know, it's, it's not just that they blow up the shark, but then that they paddle home afterwards like nice little boys. Letting the audience kind of go like, okay, you know, like, you know, as you're walking out, you're not just walking out with like, Jesus Christ, I'm so rattled. Like, but there is this sort of like sweetness.

• 2:40:11Griffin Newman?

  But there's that final shot and you're like, oh my God, they're paddling back, back up onto land. We're gonna see like Brody reunite with his wife. We're gonna see the mayor apologize.

• 2:40:19David Sims?

  Right. It's like, no, no, no. You can infer all of that.

• 2:40:22Griffin Newman?

  It's almost surprising when credits start to fade in over that image.

• 2:40:26David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:40:27Speaker 05

  And it's just like a nice shot of the island.

• 2:40:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:31Speaker 05

  You don't even like see them paddling onto the beach and then walking off. It's just like, oh, here's a nice shot of the island.

• 2:40:36Griffin Newman?

  I think it's made clear enough. We've made enough references for guest availability, recording order, timing, scheduling stuff. This and Jurassic are the two we recorded very close together.

• 2:40:46David Sims?

  True.

• 2:40:46Griffin Newman?

  Out of order.

• 2:40:47David Sims?

  Two very famous movies.

• 2:40:48Griffin Newman?

  But also, they are so paired.

• 2:40:50David Sims?

  They are.

• 2:40:51Griffin Newman?

  And even like, I feel like Jurassic does the same thing of like, end the movie once they're getting away.

• 2:40:56David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:40:56Griffin Newman?

  You know, like, all you need to see is just that they like, they got back.

• 2:41:00David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:41:00Griffin Newman?

  Right? Like this ends with, they made it back to land. That ends with, they're in the helicopter. You don't need to like fucking resolve any of these things.

• 2:41:07David Sims?

  Yeah. Right. No, we're gonna, we, we will figure all that out with ease, right?

• 2:41:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:11David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:12Speaker 05

  The, I like in that scene around the table where Quint and Hooper are finally getting their, Hopper or Hooper?

• 2:41:20Griffin Newman?

  Hooper.

• 2:41:20Speaker 05

  Hooper, I may have said Hopper earlier.

• 2:41:22Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:41:22Speaker 05

  The, uh, oh, fuck, sorry, guys. Really embarrassing. I like it when he, like, offhand in, in one of, like, you know, they're telling all these war stories about how they got their scars or whatever. That then leads to the big monologue, but at one point Quint says something about like, I got this one when I was out celebrating my third wife's demise.

• 2:41:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:44Speaker 05

  Like, that's just the lead in to one of those stories.

• 2:41:46David Sims?

  Then I like that Hooper gets him with the.

• 2:41:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, Mary Ellen.

• 2:41:50David Sims?

  Heartbroken right here, like, that Quint really likes that.

• 2:41:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:54David Sims?

  Quint likes a good joke.

• 2:41:55Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:41:56Speaker 05

  It is great to see after all the, like, you know, you got city hands, too busy counting money all your life, again, like, the class thing between them.

• 2:42:05David Sims?

  Right. To see them bond a little bit.

• 2:42:07Speaker 05

  To see them get along is really amazing.

• 2:42:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Yeah, the singing together.

• 2:42:13David Sims?

  Yeah. But it's good that Quint doesn't make it, I think. This is how Quint should go. He should get eaten by the biggest shark there ever was.

• 2:42:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:42:21David Sims?

  You know what I mean, like?

• 2:42:22Griffin Newman?

  To a certain degree, it does feel like this guy has been waiting for the release. Like, it's part of what makes his performance so incredible, is that, like, doesn't fall into, like, maniacally laughing with joy, like, finally, but it does feel like it's a sense of inevitability. Why does this guy hunt sharks? Because the only way he can still get hard is to kill a fucking shark, but also, he just knows that someday a shark's gonna get him too.

• 2:42:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he should have died then.

• 2:42:46Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:42:46Speaker 05

  He should have died then, and he didn't, so he's gotta, essentially.

• 2:42:49Griffin Newman?

  Broken beyond repair.

• 2:42:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:42:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:42:51David Sims?

  What are you looking up, Griffin?

• 2:42:52Griffin Newman?

  I'll, I'll save it for if I pull it out in time to.

• 2:42:55Speaker 03

  He goes out fighting, too. We gotta honor that.

• 2:42:57Griffin Newman?

  True.

• 2:42:58Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:42:58Griffin Newman?

  That's true.

• 2:42:58Speaker 03

  He grabs that machete, and he's like, yeah.

• 2:43:01David Sims?

  Yeah, but it doesn't do much. The shark eats him.

• 2:43:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:43:03Speaker 05

  I mean, that whole moment of the shark eating him, while also incredibly terrifying, is just really well played in that, like, even with all of the inevitability of it, with him being like, I'm just intentionally putting myself in situations in which I could get killed by a shark because that's what, how I should have died. He is still like, this sucks. I am terrified that this, and I'm trying to make sure this shark doesn't eat me.

• 2:43:27Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:43:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:43:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes. Um.

• 2:43:31Speaker 05

  Oh, one more little magical thing, David.

• 2:43:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:43:34Speaker 05

  You know what? We're doing great.

• 2:43:35Griffin Newman?

  We're doing incredible good job.

• 2:43:37Speaker 05

  Yeah. So there's a moment where Brody is in the foreground and Hooper's up on the top, up on the bridge behind them, and a fucking meteor streaks behind them.

• 2:43:49Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:43:50Speaker 05

  Which is a thing that I think is the kind of magical shit that happens on a set that means you are going to make a movie that will last forever. You know what I mean?

• 2:44:03Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:44:04Speaker 05

  Like, you can't plan for that. You can't, whatever. It's like at the end of Barton Fink where the, the shot that they use for the last shot is when that, like that, the bird like dives straight down into the ocean.

• 2:44:15Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:44:15Speaker 05

  Like, not planned. It just happened and it happened to be framed perfectly and now the movie's legendary. I think that that meteor is the kind of thing. It's like, even if you could put that in post, you wouldn't think to be like, what if a meteor was streaking behind them? It just happened and it's fucking magic.

• 2:44:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:44:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:44:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And, you know, you shoot 150 days.

• 2:44:36Speaker 05

  You're about to get.

• 2:44:37Griffin Newman?

  You end up getting a couple of miracles.

• 2:44:39Speaker 05

  You kind of get a couple of free ones.

• 2:44:40Griffin Newman?

  I was talking to a friend of the show, Alex Ross Perry, about just the state of like a sequels and reboots, and especially through the horror prism, right? I mean, the sort of like shift from franchises go on forever to the 2000s, we need to reset all these franchises to modern sensibilities, to now the, we need to return to the original timeline of franchises and bring everyone out for one final go around. And I think we were talking about this in relation to like the failure of the Blumhouse Exorcist Experiment.

• 2:45:17Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 2:45:17Griffin Newman?

  And like, is there anything that is still sacred? Is there anything that is actually never going to be touched?

• 2:45:22Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 2:45:23Griffin Newman?

  And he put forth Jaws. He's like, Jaws feels like the one thing that everyone's like, you can't do it. And I said, isn't that so funny when there are three Jaws sequels?

• 2:45:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, but there's another one that's like that.

• 2:45:34Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 2:45:34Speaker 05

  E.T.

• 2:45:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:36David Sims?

  The thing is like, it's kind of Spielberg movies. And Indiana Jones exited that, but everything else kind of didn't.

• 2:45:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:45:42David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:43Griffin Newman?

  Now, even like, there is one of my least favorite films of the last decade. That insane E.T. Super Bowl commercial that was like seven minutes long and brought Henry Thomas back.

• 2:45:55David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:45:55Griffin Newman?

  And was quote unquote sanctioned by Spielberg to some degree. Where I was a little astonished. Where it's like, obviously like Spielberg will parody Jaws himself. Other people do it, whatever. But I was like, I know it doesn't count. It's not a movie. I was like, how dare you rebuild the puppet for this?

• 2:46:14David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:14Griffin Newman?

  There is like a purity to E.T. only existing on camera one time.

• 2:46:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:46:19Griffin Newman?

  In this one time period. But it is interesting. It's something I've thought about a lot. Where something I think about the fact that they made three Jaws sequels. The second one was successful, though with a major drop off. The third one had an even bigger drop off. The fourth one got to the point where it was like, people hate this and it bombed. Where there was this feeling of like, oh, they made three. They made some money off of it. No one fucking thinks about them again. Basically only like Jaws dorks who like have the cultural memory of living through them and are fascinated with them as curios.

• 2:46:54Griffin Newman?

  It does feel like there's this collective sort of amnesia of like, Jaws is a perfect movie that exists in a vacuum.

• 2:47:00Speaker 05

  There, there is a, I wonder if part of this is like to what we were talking about right when we first started that. It is in a way sort of so timeless and so perfect. If you were going to remake it, you might think like, oh, we have to put more blood and gore into it. But in a way, that shit is already there.

• 2:47:17Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:47:18Speaker 05

  The, the, the child exploding.

• 2:47:20David Sims?

  The other thing.

• 2:47:20Speaker 05

  The guy's leg hitting the bottom of the ocean. Like it's horrifying.

• 2:47:24David Sims?

  You can just make a shark movie, which they do. And that's sort of the thing with the Exorcist. Like just make an Exorcist movie. It doesn't have to be the Exorcist.

• 2:47:30Griffin Newman?

  I found interesting. I don't know if Jada got into this at the dossier at all, but they obviously immediately wanted to do a sequel. Fast track it, right? And Spielberg was kind of like, I don't want to fucking go back and do that shit again.

• 2:47:39David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:47:40Griffin Newman?

  And they were like, okay, cool. And like two times they circled back to the idea of doing the quaint Indianapolis movie.

• 2:47:47David Sims?

  Right, right. Which makes some sense.

• 2:47:49Griffin Newman?

  Which in certain ways you're like, is that worth unpacking? Isn't it better to let it live as the monologue? But on the other hand, you read about the other three movies and you're like, that probably would have been the smarter way to go.

• 2:48:01David Sims?

  But it would have been quite a nasty movie. Right, yeah.

• 2:48:04Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:48:06David Sims?

  Jaws was a very big success at the box office.

• 2:48:09Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:48:10David Sims?

  It was the biggest success.

• 2:48:12Griffin Newman?

  Ever?

• 2:48:12David Sims?

  Of, of, of movies.

• 2:48:14Griffin Newman?

  Of all time.

• 2:48:14David Sims?

  At that time.

• 2:48:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Do you know this Ben, that Jaws basically invented the wide release?

• 2:48:21David Sims?

  Right. And now, of course, what we think of as a wide release, it was only like 480 theaters or whatever. But this was the first time. Now, The Godfather had kind of started that a little bit, like started that concept. Not the opening weekend, but the like, let's go wide fast and it'll make a lot of money.

• 2:48:37Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:48:38David Sims?

  Um, but Jaws is like, let's open wide.

• 2:48:40Griffin Newman?

  Jaws is the, like, the square one of opening weekend box office culture.

• 2:48:46David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:48:46Griffin Newman?

  We've obviously covered earlier movies in the box office game.

• 2:48:49David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:50Griffin Newman?

  But this is the first one where it's like, there is a business being built around marketing blitz, telling people this movie will be playing in every state on this day.

• 2:48:59David Sims?

  Wow.

• 2:49:00Griffin Newman?

  And you want to be there opening weekend.

• 2:49:02Speaker 05

  What, was that accidental? Was it, uh, creating like the idea of a summer blockbuster?

• 2:49:08David Sims?

  Universal was very, very focused in their strategy. Like this was a brilliantly executed release outside of Spielberg or whatever.

• 2:49:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:16David Sims?

  Universal, like, invented a new kind of release. They did unprecedented national TV spends for advertising that had never been done before. There is toys, sort of, like beach towels, blankets, board games, things like that.

• 2:49:29Speaker 05

  For the listener, uh, David dismissively gestured in Griffin's direction. Uh, you probably could hear that, but I just want to say it.

• 2:49:36David Sims?

  The film made a hundred million dollars, which was no movie had ever done.

• 2:49:40Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:49:41David Sims?

  Uh, The Godfather was the record holder at 86 million dollars. Jaws beat it.

• 2:49:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:45Speaker 05

  What was the Jaws budget?

• 2:49:48David Sims?

  Uh, the listed budget, I think, is like nine million dollars. It may have been gone over that.

• 2:49:53Griffin Newman?

  I think I read that Jaws two ended up costing 30 million, which was the most expensive movie by a significant margin at that point in time.

• 2:50:01David Sims?

  That's.

• 2:50:01Griffin Newman?

  But Jaws two, it reads like almost had an even more disastrous production. But yes, it does feel like the, the, Robert Evans was sort of using Godfather as this guinea pig of like, is there a different way to release movies? Is there a way to like maximize the money by like doing it front loaded rather than the long tail word of mouth thing? And I think it was also tied to both of these things being based off of bestselling books and having some like, it is kind of a starting IP culture and like this sort of shit. But it did feel like Universal saw the Godfather thing, which happened in a much smaller way and was like, what if we committed all the fucking way to this? And it also makes like the summer movie a thing, which obviously for this, it was tied into like, we should release this in the summer. It's a beach movie.

• 2:50:46Speaker 05

  Right. This is, this might just be ignorance on my end. Were all movies at that point released in the way that we see like movies like Oscar plays? They would just be like, release them in a city, let word of mouth, then they would bring it to Cleveland.

• 2:50:59David Sims?

  No, it wasn't like road shows exactly, but much smaller releases and right, like a very slow spreading over weeks and.

• 2:51:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Yeah. And, and like, you know, they, movies would have their big premiere in New York, but the premiere would be a thing that people could buy tickets to. That was sort of like what we now think of as like a roadshow screening where there was like a pamphlet and you had, there's a dress code, but you're seeing it at one of the big grand Broadway, single screen movie palaces along with the stars. And that would be the press of like, this movie is premiering. And then you read it in your Wichita paper and you're like, I wonder when it's coming here, you know?

• 2:51:34Speaker 05

  Got it.

• 2:51:34Griffin Newman?

  And it was less of a coordinated, oh, it's slowly expanding market to market and more like, when is your local theater negotiating to get a print of this movie? There was not the same sort of set intentionality. Godfather started to build in the intentionality, but it wasn't opening weekend. It was building a little bit. And then when are we going to go super wide and tell people Godfather is everywhere?

• 2:51:56David Sims?

  Film opened June 20th, 1975.

• 2:51:59Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:52:00David Sims?

  Number one at the box office.

• 2:52:01Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:52:02David Sims?

  Number two at the box office is a sequel, Griffin.

• 2:52:04Griffin Newman?

  Number two at the box office.

• 2:52:05David Sims?

  A comedy sequel.

• 2:52:06Griffin Newman?

  In 1975, it's a comedy sequel.

• 2:52:09David Sims?

  Yes, it is the fourth in a series.

• 2:52:12Griffin Newman?

  Is the fourth?

• 2:52:13David Sims?

  A long unwieldy series.

• 2:52:15Griffin Newman?

  In a long unwieldy series. How many did they make in total?

• 2:52:24Speaker 05

  New Year's Eve of this year.

• 2:52:25David Sims?

  I think nine.

• 2:52:26Speaker 05

  It will no longer be the year that.

• 2:52:27David Sims?

  This is a weird series, Griffin. It's hard to explain, but I think nine technically.

• 2:52:32Griffin Newman?

  You think it's nine, but it's, hmm.

• 2:52:35David Sims?

  It's not always the same star.

• 2:52:37Griffin Newman?

  It's not always the same. Oh, it's, it's a fucking Clouseau movie.

• 2:52:40David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:52:41Griffin Newman?

  It's four. Is it The Pink Panther Strikes Again?

• 2:52:45David Sims?

  No, it is the return of The Pink Panther. The Pink Panther Strikes Again is the fifth.

• 2:52:48Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh.

• 2:52:49David Sims?

  Uh, and this is the one with Sellers returning because he wasn't in the film Inspector Clouseau. Um, despite playing that character.

• 2:52:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:52:58David Sims?

  Uh, this film was a major commercial hit.

• 2:53:00Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:53:00David Sims?

  Um, and it had been number one for, I think, several weeks.

• 2:53:03Griffin Newman?

  Big franchise.

• 2:53:04David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:53:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:05David Sims?

  So that's number two. Number three, uh, is a, you know, new Hollywood film. We mentioned it. It got an Oscar nomination for two.

• 2:53:13Griffin Newman?

  For two, but not one of the best picture nominees.

• 2:53:15David Sims?

  No, it was not a best picture nominee. Uh, very, like, just a prototypical new Hollywood.

• 2:53:20Griffin Newman?

  Got acting nominations?

• 2:53:21David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah? Shampoo?

• 2:53:23David Sims?

  Shampoo.

• 2:53:24Griffin Newman?

  Shampoo.

• 2:53:24David Sims?

  Right. That's just like the most new Hollywood movie where you're like, what's it about? And it's like, I don't know, Warren Beatty fucks people and it's like kind of about Richard Nixon.

• 2:53:31Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:53:33David Sims?

  It's like, but really it's like about a horny hairdresser.

• 2:53:35Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, what's it based on? You're like, kind of John Peters, but also just Beatty fucking the actresses in the movie.

• 2:53:41David Sims?

  Warren Beatty.

• 2:53:42Griffin Newman?

  It's like an Orosport.

• 2:53:44David Sims?

  Uh, number four at the box office is a roadie drama, road drama.

• 2:53:49Griffin Newman?

  A road drama?

• 2:53:50David Sims?

  Never seen it, but starring a, a famous sort of road actor, I would say. Uh, he's in, he's on other like road movies.

• 2:53:59Griffin Newman?

  He's in other road?

• 2:54:00David Sims?

  No, I'm not sure how helpful a clue that is.

• 2:54:02Griffin Newman?

  Huh. It's not a Burt Reynolds?

• 2:54:04David Sims?

  No, no, no. It's not that famous.

• 2:54:06Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Huh.

• 2:54:08Speaker 05

  Is it Dennis Hopper?

• 2:54:09David Sims?

  No, no, Jesus.

• 2:54:10Griffin Newman?

  It's not Steve McQueen? Less famous, less famous, less famous, less famous.

• 2:54:14David Sims?

  But he's in movies we've covered.

• 2:54:15Griffin Newman?

  He's in movies we've.

• 2:54:16David Sims?

  Like horror movies.

• 2:54:17Griffin Newman?

  Is it Paul La Matt?

• 2:54:18David Sims?

  Paul La Matt.

• 2:54:19Griffin Newman?

  It's a La Matt picture?

• 2:54:20David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:54:21Griffin Newman?

  And it's a roadie dr- am I not gonna know the title?

• 2:54:24David Sims?

  I don't know. I sort of know the title. I've never seen the film.

• 2:54:26Griffin Newman?

  What's it called?

• 2:54:27David Sims?

  Aloha, Bobby and Rose.

• 2:54:29Griffin Newman?

  Don't know the title.

• 2:54:29David Sims?

  Yeah, I just know that title because it's kind of a famous title, a weird sounding title, but, uh, I don't think it's like a well-liked movie.

• 2:54:36Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:54:37David Sims?

  Number five at the box office is a classic, like Quentin Tarantino-y movie. Uh, like a crazy sort of exploitation film that people forgot about and he sort of references.

• 2:54:49Griffin Newman?

  Is it Rolling Thunder?

• 2:54:49David Sims?

  No, that's probably one of the most famous versions of that.

• 2:54:53Griffin Newman?

  Can you give me a, like a subgenre of exploitation?

• 2:54:55David Sims?

  It's like a historical.

• 2:54:57Griffin Newman?

  It's not the original Inglourious Basterds.

• 2:54:59David Sims?

  No.

• 2:55:01Griffin Newman?

  It's historical.

• 2:55:01David Sims?

  He's referencing it more in Django.

• 2:55:04Griffin Newman?

  He's referencing it more in Django. It's not Mandingo.

• 2:55:07David Sims?

  It's Mandingo.

• 2:55:08Griffin Newman?

  It's Mandingo.

• 2:55:10David Sims?

  Uh, yeah.

• 2:55:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I would say he's referencing that film most in Django Unchained.

• 2:55:15David Sims?

  Quite a lot in Django Unchained.

• 2:55:16Griffin Newman?

  If I'm thinking across his filmography.

• 2:55:17David Sims?

  You weren't gonna get it otherwise, I mean.

• 2:55:19Griffin Newman?

  No, no, no, I'm the, David, I wasn't critiquing the hint.

• 2:55:22David Sims?

  No, there are other movies. You've got the, um, Tony Curtis movie, Lepki, which I've never seen, where he plays this famous Jewish-American gangster. Sort of a forgotten movie, directed by Menahem Golan, the film producer.

• 2:55:34Griffin Newman?

  Oh, weird.

• 2:55:35David Sims?

  Never seen it.

• 2:55:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:36David Sims?

  You've got Woody Allen's Love and Death.

• 2:55:37Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:55:38David Sims?

  Um, which is one of, one of his early funny ones, if you guys have ever heard that phrase before.

• 2:55:44Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:55:45David Sims?

  Um, you've got Torso. What is that?

• 2:55:49Griffin Newman?

  Huh.

• 2:55:50David Sims?

  What is that? It's the top part of your body. Okay, it looks like an Italian giallo movie.

• 2:55:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, sort of like top part, sort of like waist to chest.

• 2:55:59David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, you've got Torso is an early giallo that's like a slasher movie.

• 2:56:02Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:56:03David Sims?

  Uh, you've got The Wind and the Lion.

• 2:56:05Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 2:56:05David Sims?

  What is that? Uh, John Millius movie, like, oh, yeah, like, uh, yes, I, it was Sean Connery movie. I've never seen that.

• 2:56:11Speaker 05

  That's the prequel to the, uh, that Killian Murphy movie.

• 2:56:15Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 2:56:15Speaker 05

  About the barley.

• 2:56:16Griffin Newman?

  When they shake the barley.

• 2:56:17David Sims?

  Yeah, we all had a version.

• 2:56:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:56:18David Sims?

  And then you have, uh.

• 2:56:20Speaker 05

  Jesus, David.

• 2:56:21David Sims?

  I was also gonna do The Lion, the Witch of the War, you know. And then number 10 is a movie called The Groove Tube, which is like a low-budget comedy with Chevy Chase.

• 2:56:30Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 2:56:30David Sims?

  Never seen that. And Bells, The Bells is in it.

• 2:56:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:56:33David Sims?

  Richard Bells are.

• 2:56:34Griffin Newman?

  That's his, that's his first movie, Chevy.

• 2:56:36David Sims?

  Right, cuz this is.

• 2:56:37Griffin Newman?

  I think it's a Kentucky Fried movie type of thing. Uh, well, SNL starts that fall.

• 2:56:44David Sims?

  Forty-four or seventy?

• 2:56:45Griffin Newman?

  Ninety-seventy-five.

• 2:56:45David Sims?

  Yeah, right, of course, SNL seventy-five, right?

• 2:56:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:56:48David Sims?

  Um, but yeah, like, I mean, a fun mix of stuff, not exactly a bunch of masterpieces, I will say.

• 2:56:55Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:56:56David Sims?

  Jaws kind of bursting into, I guess, a sleepier time of year, and this is sort of inventing the summer movie, too.

• 2:57:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:01David Sims?

  Now.

• 2:57:02Speaker 05

  Yeah. What does it ultimately make, Jaws?

• 2:57:04David Sims?

  Uh, it's sort of hard, I think it's like 130 in the initial run.

• 2:57:08Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:57:08David Sims?

  It's had many re-releases and stuff. It's like total now is like almost 500 mil.

• 2:57:12Griffin Newman?

  It would get re-released every year.

• 2:57:13David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:57:14Griffin Newman?

  But it holds the record until Star Wars.

• 2:57:17David Sims?

  Holds the record till Star Wars, which, and Star Wars is beaten by E.T., and then they kind of trade off for years with re-releases until Jurassic Park.

• 2:57:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:57:24David Sims?

  Yes, and then Titanic.

• 2:57:26Griffin Newman?

  Yes, well, and then Star Wars re-release sneaks back up there for six months before Titanic knocks it off. Yeah.

• 2:57:32David Sims?

  Bit silly.

• 2:57:33Speaker 05

  And now it's currently first Avatar or second Avatar?

• 2:57:36David Sims?

  Uh, isn't it now, once again, the first Avatar? Avengers Endgame had it for a while, but then Avatar took it back?

• 2:57:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but domestically, it's still Force Awakens.

• 2:57:45David Sims?

  Okay. I'm gonna pee.

• 2:57:48Griffin Newman?

  David, before you pee.

• 2:57:49David Sims?

  I'm gonna have to run out of here.

• 2:57:50Griffin Newman?

  Before you pee.

• 2:57:51David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:57:51Griffin Newman?

  Saturday, May 11th, Letterboxd, the group chat, Tim Simons.

• 2:57:56David Sims?

  That, which is the name of my, our chat with the wonderful Tim Simons.

• 2:57:59Griffin Newman?

  There's a separate chat we have with Sean Fancy called News and Deals.

• 2:58:03Speaker 05

  Which I always laugh when you talk about every time we text on that thread, I have had one less sex. You said that on the show.

• 2:58:10David Sims?

  Very, very good.

• 2:58:12Griffin Newman?

  Tim Simons, who has a recommendation for a movie that is like National Treasure but isn't National Treasure? David, like a family adventure film? Tim, yes, kind of grown up, so they will feel like grownups, but not insane scary. David, Mask of Zorro. David, oh, Tim, did I tell you my wife is pregnant with twin boys?

• 2:58:28Griffin Newman?

  Tim, all caps, what? David, yeah, dude. Tim, wait, is this true? Oh, my God, congratulations. David sends picture. Uh, for Dr. Identical, we don't know. Tim says, oh, my God, I can't wait to hear twin dad David in the second hour of a three and a half hour podcast about blue chips, where Griffin is talking about the Wendy's soda cup tie-ins for some movie he hated when he was 11. And David responds the most devastatingly accurate text I have ever received.

• 2:58:58David Sims?

  Griffin, that's beautifully done, and it beautifully sets up me running out of the studio in five seconds, but I'm about to go pee.

• 2:59:05Griffin Newman?

  My man, good luck, is what Tim says.

• 2:59:08David Sims?

  See, that wasn't such a bad reaction, though.

• 2:59:10Speaker 05

  No, I do think.

• 2:59:11David Sims?

  Other people have told me, like, oh, yeah, that'll ruin your, like, life forever.

• 2:59:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:59:15Speaker 05

  I was trying to be gentle.

• 2:59:17Griffin Newman?

  Um, Tim, anything you want to plug?

• 2:59:19Speaker 05

  I would just, I've actually, like, so, short answer is, like, no, like, I always, just like, whenever it comes time to plug things, I'm always just like, I don't know, like, follow me on Instagram, because I don't do it a lot, but I usually put the stuff that's happening on there. I kind of don't want to plug anything, but also I have heard it's good to plug a podcast when you are on a podcast. So I do a podcast with Matt Walsh called Second in Command. We were a VeeBrew Watch podcast, but we have completed that endeavor and now we have moved on to doing movies that only have presidents or vice presidents in them, because we enjoy each other's company. And even though it is financially largely unsuccessful, we still really enjoy doing it. So you can listen to that, which is a podcast.

• 3:00:01Speaker 03

  There's a link in the episode description.

• 3:00:03Speaker 05

  Oh, thank you.

• 3:00:04David Sims?

  We're all gonna be on it.

• 3:00:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, you guys will eventually. You may, by the time this comes out, you may have been on it.

• 3:00:09David Sims?

  Maybe.

• 3:00:09Speaker 05

  Maybe.

• 3:00:10Griffin Newman?

  Maybe. Uh, yes, we called, we called our shots, uh, last night.

• 3:00:13Speaker 03

  The president in Beavis and Butthead 2: America?

• 3:00:17David Sims?

  Probably, I don't know.

• 3:00:18Speaker 05

  Probably?

• 3:00:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:00:19Speaker 05

  That is the kind of thing that will fit the-

• 3:00:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you should take that.

• 3:00:22David Sims?

  Your purview is broad.

• 3:00:23Speaker 05

  Yes, it's a broad purview.

• 3:00:24Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Tim, thank you for being here. You're the best.

• 3:00:26Speaker 05

  Uh, you guys are the best. I love you so much.

• 3:00:28Griffin Newman?

  Love you so much, Tim. Next week on the show, uh, let's see, Steven Spielberg, uh, follows up Jaws, but just kind of like a small kind of one for him. Oh, no, he makes Close Encounters.

• 3:00:37David Sims?

  Do-Do, yeah, yeah, right, yeah, Close Encounters.

• 3:00:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:40Speaker 03

  And coming up on the Patreon in a few days, we have, of course, the second installment in our Jelly mini-series. We have Mickey Blue Eyes.

• 3:00:48Griffin Newman?

  That's wild. It's wild to think about a future we'll soon be in where that is happening.

• 3:00:53Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 3:00:54Griffin Newman?

  Um, yeah, stay tuned for that. Uh, uh, thank you again for being here, Tim. And as always-

• 3:01:00Speaker 05

  Absolutely, my pleasure.

• 3:01:00Griffin Newman?

  I'm fucking getting out of here. I got twins to get back home to.

• 3:01:04Speaker 03

  Is that because you have to take two shits?

• 3:01:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:07Speaker 05

  All right, that was good.

• 3:01:08Griffin Newman?

  I gotta drop off-

• 3:01:08Speaker 05

  That was good.

• 3:01:09David Sims?

  I was trying to figure out a steelbook joke, but that's way better.

• 3:01:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:18Speaker 05

  Can I just say, David, I like to think about the years that, like around New Year's, like January 1st or January 2nd, I like to think about the thing that I will miss most about that particular year.

• 3:01:32David Sims?

  Okay.

• 3:01:33Speaker 05

  And there was, like, there was one year where I saw a play called Wakey Wakey on Broadway that, or no, it was off-Broadway that Will Eno wrote, and it was like a very profound experience.

• 3:01:44David Sims?

  Right. I've heard of it.

• 3:01:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, and like, I think it was 2018, and I remember at the end of 2018, I was like, I'm very sad that this year is ending because this will no longer be the year that I saw Wakey Wakey.

• 3:01:55David Sims?

  Okay.

• 3:01:56Speaker 05

  And I remember that the end of 2022, I thought to myself, I'm sad that this year is ending because it will no longer be the year that I saw David get so disappointed he had to do ad reads after we had talked about The Shining for three hours. The level.

• 3:02:11David Sims?

  We're not doing ad reads today.

• 3:02:12Speaker 05

  The level.

• 3:02:15David Sims?

  Not gonna fucking happen.

• 3:02:18Speaker 05

  The way you fell, your entire body, your entire voice was like, I can't believe I now have to keep talking. And it was like, it was a really beautiful, honest moment.

• 3:02:31David Sims?

  I'm just gonna say something, though. I think Jaws, we will not talk about Jaws as long, not because Jaws isn't a big movie, just because it's, you know, it doesn't go as deep as The Shining. Like, that's not an offense to Jaws.

• 3:02:46Griffin Newman?

  Ben, you're already recording?

• 3:02:48David Sims?

  Right, like, I feel like this is, this is kind of a thing to consider. All right, do your, do your.

• 3:02:52Griffin Newman?

  Just keep all of this in at the end of the episode.

• 3:02:55David Sims?

  Yeah, okay.

• 3:02:55Griffin Newman?

  Three and a half hours.

• 3:02:56David Sims?

  No, no.

• 3:02:58Griffin Newman?

  I'm joking. But definitely keep all of that in at the end of the episode. Okay, ready?