1941 with Mike Mitchell & Nick Wiger

He invented the summer blockbuster. He inspired millions of people around the world to “watch the skies.” And now, he has sent Griffin Newman into an existential crisis over the question “what is comedy?” Our friends Mike Mitchell and Nick Wiger of The Doughboys join us to talk about Steven Spielberg’s infamously unfunny 1941. Why IS this film - loaded with so many comedic superstars - boring as shit? Is the opening scene one of the most embarrassing exercises in hubris ever committed to screen? Would this movie be better if they just inserted the entirety of Dumbo into it? Why does Eddie Deezen keep getting banned from dining establishments? Someone has to ask these things. Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 04

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 04

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36David Sims?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 04

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around.

• 0:45Griffin Newman?

  Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10Speaker 04

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Griffin Newman?

  Blank Check, the most explosive podcast ever made.

• 1:44David Sims?

  Wait, that's what you did?

• 1:45Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so here's the thing.

• 1:47David Sims?

  Is that the tagline or something?

• 1:48Griffin Newman?

  I was digging through all the trailers and the posters last night. And there was one I was trying to find that was, I can't quite locate. But all of the trailers kept using these taglines that are like, the most explosive comedy spectacular in history.

• 2:02David Sims?

  I just know a comedy spectacular.

• 2:03Griffin Newman?

  This is the thing.

• 2:03David Sims?

  That's the tagline I know from the big poster.

• 2:05Griffin Newman?

  One of the advertising materials I saw combined the two. Cause a lot of the trailers kept on saying the most explosive. Explosive movie ever made and the pot, the posters keep saying a comedy spectacular. And one of them combined it and it speaks to the inherent issues with this movie. That they're selling of it was, this is so funny and so big.

• 2:23David Sims?

  I mean, that's the movie at large, but okay.

• 2:26Griffin Newman?

  But they were just saying that as a statement and being like, don't you want to see a movie that's really loud and expensive and has jokes in it? And you're like, what's it about? And they're like, don't worry about that.

• 2:35David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 2:36Griffin Newman?

  The most, it's the most movie.

• 2:38David Sims?

  Uh, what about this one?

• 2:39Griffin Newman?

  This one.

• 2:40David Sims?

  Soon the screen will be bombarded by the most explosive barrage of, and it looks like the word shit in Japanese.

• 2:46Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 2:47David Sims?

  Ever filmed.

• 2:48Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:49David Sims?

  So again, it's just like, right, like, most.

• 2:52Griffin Newman?

  Most.

• 2:53David Sims?

  Screen filled, like, there won't be a dull second.

• 2:56Griffin Newman?

  No, and this is one of those classic cases of most equaling best.

• 3:01David Sims?

  Uh, yes, exactly. That's, that's, I mean, that's the story of 1941, Griffin.

• 3:06Griffin Newman?

  It's the most movie ever made and we all agree that it's probably the, the great American film.

• 3:10David Sims?

  He took 10 minutes to do this. Yes, please.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  It's all, it's all excess. It's, it's spectacle. Like, it, it at least delivers on spectacle. But I, my, my question for you is, did you consciously avoid a quote from the movie? Because you couldn't find a line of dialogue that didn't have an Asian slur?

• 3:28Griffin Newman?

  Nick, there was a quote on the IMDb page I was close to, and then I realized it had an African-American slur in it.

• 3:35David Sims?

  Oh, there you go. Very good.

• 3:36Griffin Newman?

  I think there are very few quotes from this movie. There are few distinctive lines that don't have something.

• 3:42David Sims?

  I don't think there, I don't think there are really a lot of distinctive lines, period. And that's why I was like.

• 3:48Griffin Newman?

  I didn't say memorable, I said distinctive.

• 3:49David Sims?

  I was just like, what are you even looking for? I don't really know what the like killer line from 1941 is.

• 3:55Griffin Newman?

  I was looking, I was looking for this one statement, but it speaks to how this movie had like six similar taglines that were used in alternation. All of which are just trying to get the same point across, which was big and funny, expensive.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  There's the Ackroyd monologue, but there's nothing in that that really could, like, like, I can even remember specifically. You know, like when he's up on the tank and he's trying to calm everyone down during the, the, you know, zoot suit riot.

• 4:21Griffin Newman?

  Well, I can barely understand what he's saying during that.

• 4:24David Sims?

  Like screaming at the top of his lungs.

• 4:26Griffin Newman?

  Just his weird, like, fast autistic computer speak, right? It's like the most extreme version of. I'm dead, I'm crazy, I'm in a tank, I'm shooting at you, when I, I. Everyone is like acting- Car salesman shit. Yeah, every line has the intensity of Christopher Lloyd in The Addams Family. Just like everyone is just shouting everything. Here's a fun question I thought of while watching this film last night. If you, if you were talking to someone who had seen this, but had no frame of reference for Dan Aykroyd as a person, how would you describe to them who Dan Aykroyd plays in this movie? He is first billed, I know it's because of alphabetical- Alphabetical, sure. But his face is big on the poster, he's one of the people the movie was sold on,

• 5:09Griffin Newman?

  he's a huge fucking star at this moment. Yeah, sure. I, I don't think you could explain to someone what his character does in this movie in a way that really clarifies who he was amidst the 80 characters. It's hard, it's hard to even know his function in the plot, like exactly, like he's- The closest you could say is like, there's a 10 minute stretch where he's like concussed and is doing weird shit, but you're like, that could describe almost any character in this movie during any 10 minute stretch.

• 5:39David Sims?

  He's kind of a voice of reason, sort of, at moments amongst the various people who are going crazy, right?

• 5:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but that's also, once again, you're describing-

• 5:50David Sims?

  This is a terrible challenge, I hate the challenge.

• 5:52Griffin Newman?

  I just think it's fascinating that this movie is like, we got Aykroyd, and you're like, how are you applying him, and they're like, we don't really know.

• 6:00Speaker 05

  My first note was not enough slurs, so, I, um...

• 6:07Speaker 05

  So I, I didn't real, I got, you guys are right, now, now in hindsight, oh wait, those were really bad.

• 6:14Griffin Newman?

  You gave it one star on Letterboxd, but only for that reason. Lack of commitment. One star per 100 slurs.

• 6:23Griffin Newman?

  It topped out there. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David, the most explosive comedy podcast ever made. I'm Griffin. I'm David. You look very worried.

• 6:31David Sims?

  This movie really bummed, bum me out is too strong, but I was just kinda like- I have never seen it in full.

• 6:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, same.

• 6:40David Sims?

  And I really just had that thought of like, it's gonna be like, interesting.

• 6:45Griffin Newman?

  We all think that. Everyone thinks this.

• 6:47David Sims?

  And like, they'll be like, kind of, you know, a lot to excavate about. And there is, to some extent, like, but it's just, I was just kind of flabbergasted by how boring it was.

• 6:58Griffin Newman?

  Do you mind reciting the thing you texted us yesterday while you were watching it?

• 7:02David Sims?

  Let me find it. Yeah.

• 7:04Griffin Newman?

  This is a podcast about filmography. It's directors who have massive success early on in their career, such as making Jaws and Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

• 7:11David Sims?

  Sure.

• 7:11Griffin Newman?

  And are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want, such as 1941.

• 7:17David Sims?

  Sure.

• 7:17Griffin Newman?

  I mean, a perfect example of like, two mega successes followed by a no notes disaster.

• 7:24Speaker 05

  Has, have you, have you ever had someone who's been so, like, uh, like, so sure that they were making a disaster because he was, because this was like, I'm gonna, they're gonna hate this. They're gonna, I'm gonna, this is gonna bomb, right?

• 7:36David Sims?

  That's a good point. It's, it's. It's a bounce that he sees coming while he's making it, I think. Yes.

• 7:40Griffin Newman?

  What's also weird about it is, we've maybe covered things that are like bounces that people see coming, but it's bounces where they're like, look, there's some esoteric, uncommercial thing I've always wanted to do.

• 7:51David Sims?

  I'll do this with my cred.

• 7:53Griffin Newman?

  And I'm leveraging it to get this out of my system. But this is like him making something ostensibly in the trappings of what should be a popcorn movie, and just doing it incorrectly, and knowing he's fucking it up. There was, I, I watched this, there's an hour and 40 minute documentary on the Blu-ray, which has been carried over from the LaserDisc. This thing has been ported over for like 25 years onto various editions, and it's mostly talking heads of just like Spielberg, Zemeckis, John Millius, Bob Gale. And he says, my, like, my operating principle on this movie was anything goes. And he was like, I don't want anyone explaining to me that it's a bad idea.

• 8:35Griffin Newman?

  We can do anything we want, and it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense. And I'm like, this feels like a guy who actually wants to like, fuck up on purpose, because he's feeling the burden of being seen as a golden child.

• 8:46David Sims?

  He's like, running headlong into the wall, being like, what happens if I hit my head against the wall, like?

• 8:51Griffin Newman?

  Right. And he's like, either it works and I'm literally unstoppable, or I'm grounded in a way I maybe need at this moment. This is a mini-series on the films of Steven Spielberg. It's called Podrastic Cast. Today, we are talking about his first bounce, 1941. A World War II movie.

• 9:07David Sims?

  In a manner of speaking, yes.

• 9:10Griffin Newman?

  Sadly, because our guest today would be very, very well suited to talk about a World War I movie.

• 9:17David Sims?

  Go on.

• 9:17Griffin Newman?

  Well, they host the Doughboys podcast.

• 9:19Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 9:20Griffin Newman?

  Where one war off.

• 9:21Speaker 05

  We were both scratching our heads.

• 9:24David Sims?

  You guys are like, huh?

• 9:27David Sims?

  Which one's that? No, of course, the Doughboys are where the names of the soldiers.

• 9:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 9:33David Sims?

  The American soldiers.

• 9:34Griffin Newman?

  Right. And in World War II, they were called the Action Boys with a Z.

• 9:39Griffin Newman?

  We should have got Gabris and Otters and Stanger on.

• 9:42David Sims?

  The British soldiers were called Tommy.

• 9:44Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 9:45David Sims?

  That was like how British soldiers referred to like the sort of-

• 9:47Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 9:47David Sims?

  In World War I, the classic British soldier was called Tommy.

• 9:50Griffin Newman?

  What were American?

• 9:51David Sims?

  Doughboys is one of them.

• 9:52Griffin Newman?

  No, I'm talking before World War II.

• 9:53David Sims?

  I don't know. G.I. Joe? I don't know.

• 9:55Griffin Newman?

  Google type away. Nick Wiger and Mike Mitchell.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Hi. Hey, buddy. Thanks for having us.

• 10:01Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  Can I, can I say one thing to your listenership? First off, I'm a huge fan of the podcast. Mitch and I are both big fans of the podcast.

• 10:09Griffin Newman?

  God bless you.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  Always happy to be, to guest on, always honored to guest on the show. This is the first time, I feel like every time we've guested on Blank Check in the past, and I think this is the case with how, with how you tend to schedule your show. We've been like 18 months in advance of when the mini-series comes out.

• 10:24David Sims?

  It's like- That's true. Now we're close.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  Exactly. I was listening to the dual episode on the commute to the studio. So it's like, we're very, we're almost caught up to the present with this Spielberg mini-series.

• 10:34David Sims?

  Isn't this also kind of the first time you guys have not been on a movie that's like a really sort of big, kind of weighty movie?

• 10:41Griffin Newman?

  Three previous movies you guys have covered.

• 10:43David Sims?

  Right.

• 10:44Griffin Newman?

  Who Framed Roger Rabbit, They Live, and Seven.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:47David Sims?

  Right. Like really good movies.

• 10:49Griffin Newman?

  They are all at least in conversation for that director's masterpiece. If not the undisputed one, they're at least in that talk. And this is, you're getting what is like, I don't want to say inarguably, but pretty widely considered a single worst film. You'll find very few people who put something lower.

• 11:06David Sims?

  It's certainly at the bottom.

• 11:08Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 11:08David Sims?

  It's like, I mean, you know, it's like how whatever, George W. Bush is a bottom five president, right?

• 11:16Griffin Newman?

  Well-

• 11:17David Sims?

  You know how people do rankings of presidents? These historians are always like ranking presidents?

• 11:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 11:21David Sims?

  They always think it's really weird.

• 11:22Griffin Newman?

  My well was sarcastic. I want to state that because no one laughed.

• 11:25David Sims?

  You don't like George W. Bush. Sure, fine.

• 11:26Griffin Newman?

  I don't like him. I love him. No, what I was gonna say is, uh-

• 11:30David Sims?

  Dogface.

• 11:32Griffin Newman?

  They were called the Dog Faces?

• 11:34David Sims?

  Yeah, Dog Face was a nickname for US Army soldiers, especially enlisted infantrymen in World War II.

• 11:40Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Kind of insulting, yeah.

• 11:43David Sims?

  It does seem insulting.

• 11:44Griffin Newman?

  To use my, my current favorite-

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Didn't realize my first wife served.

• 11:50Speaker 05

  First wife?

• 11:53Griffin Newman?

  To use my, my, my recent favorite word on the podcast, I do feel like this is kind of like, in arguably Spielberg's greatest folly. Right?

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:03Griffin Newman?

  This is like the biggest swing and a miss, and the sort of public fallout kind of like humbling moment.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  It is a big swing. I mean, that's the thing. It's, it is, he's trying stuff. And, and, and yes, and my, my tebbit defense of this movie, which I have seen before. I don't, Mitch, I don't know, had you ever seen this before?

• 12:19Speaker 05

  No, I've never seen it. This is my first time I've ever seen it.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  I watched this movie as a, as a child. I saw this when I was in elementary school, and it, it, along with another Acaroid movie, Dragnet. I don't know if y'all remember the Dragnet remake.

• 12:31David Sims?

  Or City of Crime.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  That was like one of the first, one of the first times I saw a comedy with someone I thought was funny, where I was like, why is this not funny? Like, I was like, I had like a, like a nine-year-old brain of like not understanding how someone who was funny could be, could, was, was capable of being unfunny.

• 12:48Griffin Newman?

  This is why I'm so happy you guys are on for this episode, because, I mean, as you said-

• 12:53Speaker 02

  Because we're experts on unfunny?

• 12:56David Sims?

  Why are these comedians not making me laugh? It's so weird.

• 13:01Speaker 05

  I, I, the Stanley Cooper take-

• 13:02Griffin Newman?

  Apple tagged this as a comedy podcast.

• 13:07Speaker 05

  The Stanley Cooper take is, I, I agree with, maybe.

• 13:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 13:11Speaker 05

  Cooper thinks it's a great movie, but just is not funny at all.

• 13:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, right. You should have released it and sold it as a drama.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  And which, which, and, and I'm sure y'all have some of this in the dossier, but I, I, I was shocked to find that that was, this was originally developed as a drama. Um, but like, the- The thing I picked up on, on, I, I, I watched it twice for this episode. Um, and, uh, the thing I picked up-

• 13:32Griffin Newman?

  The theatrical cut both times?

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just watched the theatrical cut twice. Uh, the, I, I've maybe, I was realizing this, I've maybe saw the extended cut because I watched it on TV as a kid. Maybe that's the version I saw.

• 13:44Griffin Newman?

  Extended Cut was the one that was largely-

• 13:46Speaker 05

  TV mainstay.

• 13:47Griffin Newman?

  Right, and then was on home video for a while. Now it's, it's optional. Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, so, uh, watch it, but like, the thing I picked up on, speaking of Kubrick, that I didn't pick up on as a kid, not knowing who Slim Pickens was, once Slim Pickens showed up, I was like, oh, he's trying to make, uh, you know, Doctor Strangelove. Like, this is an attempt at that sort of, that level of, of, of, you know, war satire, and-

• 14:09Speaker 05

  Which, by the way, Slim Pickens plays, uh, he's a dough, he's a doughboy. He's a former doughboy.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  That's right, he is a former doughboy.

• 14:15Speaker 05

  He served, he served.

• 14:16Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 14:17David Sims?

  And he does give Wendy's four forks in the movie.

• 14:19Griffin Newman?

  Even though I think the lettuce has gotten bad?

• 14:21David Sims?

  Right, even though, right, and the, and the app isn't as good anymore.

• 14:25Griffin Newman?

  There's that scene where he keeps saying, cigarettes are back!

• 14:30Griffin Newman?

  I don't know why my Slim Pickens impression is goofy.

• 14:33David Sims?

  It was fine.

• 14:34Griffin Newman?

  Um, no, this is a perfect movie where you're like, why is none of this funny? And you're watching it, and you're like, it, there isn't like a clear, like, well, this is obviously, conceptually doomed unfunny, but just every moment, there's like a black hole of comedy.

• 14:52David Sims?

  I'm just kinda like, why am I not laughing? Like, this is funny, this is a, you know, vaudeville, you know, big, silly slapsticky stuff. Why am I kind of like, is it too good, in a way? Like, is Spielberg too good at staging action? And so I'm actually kinda just like, watching what happens, and it's not quite, you know, goofy enough? I don't know. Goofy things happen, yeah.

• 15:14Griffin Newman?

  I have, I have a couple takes, but I, you know, we, the reason we're recording this closer to the date was we were trying very hard to make this an in-person record, you guys being on the East Coast, and then it didn't quite work out, and there was a question of like, you guys are gonna be doing a live show here in a couple months, should we wait and reschedule you for something later? And I was like, maybe we do something later as well, but you guys on 1941 really feels right. And watching it last night, I was like, there is a larger conversation to be had here, without getting academic. A dumb version of this conversation, where watching this movie genuinely makes me step back and go like, what is funny?

• 15:50David Sims?

  Yeah, right, how does something become fun?

• 15:52Griffin Newman?

  Why is anything funny? Because it's really weird to watch incredibly funny people in circumstances where you're like, I could see this being funny and things like that are not ineptly crafted, you know, and are certainly given all the resources and support they need. And there's like anti laughs without it feeling like anti humor, without it feeling like disastrous failed humor. It's just not fucking funny.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like John Belushi in, you know, in a fighter jet, cracking a Coke bottle in half and then gargling with it and then throwing it out the, you know, throwing it to the ground. Like, that could be funny. Like, that could be a bit of physical comedy. You're watching this like, okay, all the pieces are here, but you're watching it and it just feels abrasive. Or like, nothing at all.

• 16:36Griffin Newman?

  I watched the extended cut, which is two and a half hours long.

• 16:40Speaker 05

  Oh, God.

• 16:40Griffin Newman?

  I had a notes app that was write down every time you audibly make a sound. And I believe I had five full laughs.

• 16:49David Sims?

  Four farts?

• 16:52Griffin Newman?

  Lot of farts. Farts were their own. I think I had five like huh. And like two like huh, kind of half chuckles.

• 17:00Speaker 05

  Not bad, honestly.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:02Griffin Newman?

  It was a little higher than I was expecting. I will say, they basically ended by the one hour mark. Like, at a certain point, the movie just wore me out. I think there were none in the last hour possibly. But the Belushi Coke bottle is one that got me. I will say, anytime Belushi is on screen, it at least resembles comedy.

• 17:22David Sims?

  There's energy.

• 17:23Griffin Newman?

  It is comedy adjacent. You're like, I'm not laughing, but I get this as comedy. Whereas other scenes, you're like, I don't even know what I'm seeing anymore.

• 17:31David Sims?

  But wait, I do want to hear, yeah, what you, so, okay, Nick, you'd already seen 1941.

• 17:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 17:35David Sims?

  You, you had some memory of it. What did you, and Mitch, you'd never seen. What did you guys think of 1941? Just broadest reaction?

• 17:42Speaker 05

  I, I think it's good that what Griffin was saying with the, with the Doughboys are good guests to have on for this. I can tell you why I think it doesn't work as a comedy. So you were afraid of me waving, getting my finger there?

• 17:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, you're getting riled up.

• 17:53Speaker 05

  I am getting riled up.

• 17:54David Sims?

  Well, because he's about to say it's too woke.

• 17:57Speaker 05

  I'm about to give a little acroide type speech right here.

• 18:00Griffin Newman?

  Hell, yeah.

• 18:00Speaker 05

  Ounga Pachka, why is there too much? There's too much, uh, there's too much going on at once. I, I wrote down Steven Spielberg. That's what I said because the-

• 18:11Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 18:11Griffin Newman?

  Mitch!

• 18:12Speaker 05

  Steven Spielberg, he's going nuts. He's got, there's a million, you, it's a sort of thing with comedy where you're like- Oh, you gotta let things breathe a little bit. No joke, there's not like, there's almost not a single joke that gets to kind of breathe in the movie. It's all so deliberate, so fast. And then also at the same time, people are falling over or yelling other lines at the same time. It's like such an insane, like maybe it's a mad, mad, mad, mad world or something. He was trying to like evoke that or something, but it was, it's just too much stuff.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  There, there's a, it, it, it has, it's the unrelenting cacophony of like a, you know, the, the Waterworld stunt show at Universal, you know what I mean? It's just, it's just like, kind of like, things are just keep happening.

• 18:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  And you can take that for, for 20 minutes, but if you take it for two full hours, it just, it just, you get numb to it. Um, I, yeah, I, it's like every single scene has a car exploding or someone getting punched in the face. Or a-

• 19:07Speaker 05

  People getting knocked over by cars.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  People getting knocked over by cars, a building collapsing. There, there's like, there's like Robert Stack just giving exposition outside the movie theater to a certain point. In the background, a, a Jeep just flips randomly. And it, it's just, it's just hard to like track what's happening.

• 19:21Speaker 05

  By the way, one of the funniest moments for me is him just going and enjoying Dumbo. That's like such a great-

• 19:25Speaker 02

  Which is a quiet, which is a quieter moment. Yeah.

• 19:27David Sims?

  Yeah. Uh, the best moment in the movie is when anytime Dumbo is playing and I'm watching Dumbo, locked the fucking Dumbo. Being like, God, Dumbo is so good. Yeah. Thinking about like, ah, should I show my daughter Dumbo? And then being like, ah, Dumbo is really sad. Like it really is upsetting, like the mom and I'm like, having all these thoughts about Dumbo. The movie is by the way, you know, now like being like, moving on from Dumbo. And I'm like, ah, still thinking about Dumbo.

• 19:52Griffin Newman?

  My, my friend Alejandro used to have a stand-up bit about the reason why Atlas shrugged us so long is in the middle of a book, the main character reads another book. And he's like, in Great Expectations, just you read the full Great Expectations. And then on page 500, it goes, and she closed the book and said, wow, what a good book.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Here's-

• 20:10Griffin Newman?

  And it's like that with Dumbo where you're like, Dumbo is like famously 50 minutes long.

• 20:15Speaker 05

  Very short, very short. Yeah.

• 20:16Griffin Newman?

  Watching the, the extended cut of the movie, I'm like, you could have just given me Dumbo in full.

• 20:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, just have people be like, let's sit down.

• 20:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 20:23Speaker 05

  Look, Steven Spoh, this is what I want to throw to you guys. I'm sort of realizing is I look at my, I look, look at my Spielberg rankings.

• 20:29Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 20:31David Sims?

  I think the worst five movies he's made are his comedies.

• 20:37Griffin Newman?

  I'm inclined to say you're right.

• 20:40David Sims?

  Things like, you know, like the Indiana Jones movies are fun adventure movies. They have comic tones. Like so with same with Tintin. Sugar Land Express is like sort of a comedy. Kind of like comedy drama, you know, caper, right? Catch Me If You Can is a comedy, but you know, it's again, like a caper movie. It's very melancholy.

• 21:00Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, I mean, Sugar Land and Catch Me If You Can operate on a similar register of being kind of like dramedy.

• 21:07David Sims?

  Yeah, I'm keeping those like.

• 21:08Griffin Newman?

  With a chase structure versus straight comedy.

• 21:10David Sims?

  His worst films are 1941, The Terminal, Hook, Always, and I'm sorry, The BFG.

• 21:16Griffin Newman?

  No, I agree.

• 21:17David Sims?

  And like, I mean, The BFG is a kid's movie, but it is, you know, sort of a.

• 21:21Griffin Newman?

  Sucks and is for losers.

• 21:22David Sims?

  Right. 1941, The Terminal and Hook.

• 21:25Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 21:25David Sims?

  But especially 1941 and the, his two worst movies are his two like straightest attempts at a comedy.

• 21:31Griffin Newman?

  But I feel like you hear people say this a lot, especially in discussing 1941. No, but I think I have the same five as you in maybe a slightly different order. Uh, when people discuss like Spielberg, they're like, and of course his Achilles heel is he can't do comedy. And when this came out at the time, people were almost celebrating like, thank God, this guy isn't invincible. He's got a weakness. He can't do comedy. What's weird about it is I think Spielberg is incredibly good at putting comedy into non comedic movies.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  100%.

• 22:03David Sims?

  He can have such a light touch.

• 22:05Griffin Newman?

  And, and it's part of his magic is his balance is like even in something like Saving Private Ryan, which is like so relentless. It could be so dire. He'll have stuff like Jeremy Davies doing like physical comedy.

• 22:17David Sims?

  Yeah, that shit's funny.

• 22:18Griffin Newman?

  He's really good at the instincts of like, when do you like, take your foot off the gas a little? Have a little reprieve, something that doesn't feel flippant to the rest of the tone. All the Indiana Jones movies are funnier than this movie.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 22:30Griffin Newman?

  With ostensibly being comedies.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  Jurassic Park is funnier than this movie. I both, I both Jurassic Parks he directed. Yeah.

• 22:36Griffin Newman?

  Right, but it's like when he's like, you know what I want to do? I want to just simplify and just do a straight comedy. He like falls apart.

• 22:44David Sims?

  Yeah, he seems to be searching for whatever, a superstructure he can't have. This movie also, I mean, this movie's real problem is, what is this movie about?

• 22:52Griffin Newman?

  Well, this is the thing to talk about.

• 22:55David Sims?

  Cause I know the movie, what the movie is about. It's about a genuine historical event that, that they're having fun with and supersizing. What the fuck is this movie about? Like, what am I supposed to walk out thinking?

• 23:07Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 23:09David Sims?

  I truly don't really know.

• 23:11Griffin Newman?

  There were two really interesting things I found out in this special feature documentary, right? And like, I think at the beginning of it, Spielberg says like, you know, they liked it in Europe.

• 23:21David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 23:22Griffin Newman?

  And he's like, so I go to Europe when I want to feel better about 1941. But he was like, basically it felt like we made this movie that only like me, Millius and the two Bobs enjoyed.

• 23:30David Sims?

  Right.

• 23:31Griffin Newman?

  Like, he's sort of like, none of us have any shame. We had such a good time making this and it felt like our big fuck you to everything and everyone. And we just had uninhibited fun, right?

• 23:39David Sims?

  Right.

• 23:39Griffin Newman?

  But the two things they said that stuck out to me, one is they're talking about the development of this project, which as you said, Wiger started out as a drama and then at some point transformed into a comedy. And they're talking about how the two Bobs, Amecus and Gale, discovered this real incident, that they morphed and combined with a couple other things.

• 23:57David Sims?

  Right.

• 23:57Griffin Newman?

  The idea of there being a Japanese attack on California. And they're talking about like, that felt like a great starting point for a movie. And then Bob Gale goes, I mean, in real life, the event happened in 1942. And I'm like, wait a second. So right off the bat, why the fuck is this movie called 1941?

• 24:14David Sims?

  It's a fair point. It's a good point. I mean, the Battle of Los Angeles did take place in 1942.

• 24:18Griffin Newman?

  That is not the big problem, but it feels emblematic of like, you can't even explain to me why you're doing this. Why is the title of a movie a different year than when the thing happened? Why are we changing things willy nilly? The other thing was, he talked about how the Robert Stack character.

• 24:35Griffin Newman?

  He originally offered to John Wayne. That was his wildest dream.

• 24:37David Sims?

  This is what I know. Yeah.

• 24:38Griffin Newman?

  Was to get John Wayne to do the film.

• 24:41David Sims?

  Right.

• 24:41Griffin Newman?

  And he had like developed a friendship with John Wayne.

• 24:45David Sims?

  They get the script to John Wayne and John Wayne is like, you shouldn't make fun of this.

• 24:50Griffin Newman?

  The way Spielberg put it.

• 24:51David Sims?

  Sure.

• 24:51Griffin Newman?

  He was like, I'm on the phone with John Wayne.

• 24:53David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 24:54Griffin Newman?

  John Wayne pitched me a project he wanted to do. I was like, I actually have a script. Would you mind reading it? He's like, absolutely send it over. And he's like, John Wayne like called me within two hours of the messenger dropping the script off. He clearly had read it immediately.

• 25:08David Sims?

  Right.

• 25:08Griffin Newman?

  And was irate.

• 25:09David Sims?

  He was really mad.

• 25:10Griffin Newman?

  And was like, how fucking dare you? American soldiers like fought and died for this war.

• 25:15David Sims?

  I thought you were an American.

• 25:16Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 25:17David Sims?

  I thought you were gonna make a movie to honor World War II. This dishonors the memory of what happened. Don't even make this film. I'll be very disappointed if you wind up making this picture.

• 25:25Griffin Newman?

  And the way Spielberg.

• 25:26Speaker 05

  Wow. Did he at least call him pilgrim at the end?

• 25:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and then he would throw out some racial slurs. The way Spielberg put it, he was like, John Wayne was like, this script is a slap in the face to the US military.

• 25:40David Sims?

  Right.

• 25:40Griffin Newman?

  And Spielberg's retort was, I don't think it's a slap in the face. I think it's a pie in the face. I have respect for the US military. I just think it's fun to put pie in faces.

• 25:49David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 25:49Griffin Newman?

  And I'm like, there's the whole problem right there. This movie has no fucking point of view.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  It doesn't really have a perspective, yeah.

• 25:55Griffin Newman?

  This is offensive because it's not taking the military seriously. And Spielberg's like, I have nothing critical to say about the military. I just think it's funny when pies go in people's faces.

• 26:04David Sims?

  But like, that's.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Right. It's a, going back to, you know, the, the kind of attempt at, at making, you know, Doctor Strangelove. It's like, Doctor Strangelove has a point of view. Like, you understand what it's saying about like Cold War hysteria. This one, I have no idea what it's trying to convey.

• 26:19Griffin Newman?

  Or even like a MASH.

• 26:21David Sims?

  Doctor Strangelove is anti-war. MASH is anti-war. These are movies with like, 1941, I kind of agree with John Wayne. Like.

• 26:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 26:30David Sims?

  I'm like.

• 26:31Speaker 05

  I agree with him on a lot of things, damn it.

• 26:33David Sims?

  On a lot of things.

• 26:34Griffin Newman?

  Mostly his Playboy interviews.

• 26:37David Sims?

  Uh, where I'm kinda like, well, and I guess that we can talk about how it turned from a drama to a comic. Cause it's like, yeah, that what it's about is like a paranoid, on edge nation.

• 26:47Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 26:47David Sims?

  After Pearl Harbor, kind of like, you know, exploding into suspicion and chaos and all that. And the movie's like, I guess it's kinda like, ah, these dorks. And I'm like, they're not dorks. They're freaking out and it's causing problems, like.

• 27:02Griffin Newman?

  But that's even.

• 27:03David Sims?

  It's scary.

• 27:04Griffin Newman?

  Something like, the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming.

• 27:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 27:06Griffin Newman?

  Which is another movie that feels like a big influence on this.

• 27:09David Sims?

  That to me is the most obvious animal. And that's a movie about paranoia that is, that is funny. The Russians are coming is funny.

• 27:14Griffin Newman?

  And it's also like, that movie functions more as social satire, where it's about like the American public reacting to something, rather than like a scathing indictment of the military.

• 27:25David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 27:25Griffin Newman?

  And it's like, that's a take two.

• 27:28David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 27:28Griffin Newman?

  You know, and instead this movie is just kinda like, everyone's dumb.

• 27:31David Sims?

  No, to me, this movie is like, we have lots of money.

• 27:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 27:34David Sims?

  Also, but anyway, would Nick, what were you gonna say?

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Oh, I was just gonna say, and Mitch, I wanna hear what you have to say as well. But like, I was just gonna say that it's, it's 1941 is the movie, right? So it's set before like the kind of the outbreak of the, the full-fledged American involvement in the, you know, European and Pacific theaters. But like, for this to work as satire, World War II would have had to be a big nothing, right? Cause it would have been like, look at all this hysteria, these people getting worked up over, over this thing that was like this, you know, whatever, that was, that was a false alarm. But it like, it completely, I, again, yeah, I kind of sympathize with John Wayne's perspective. By the way, how much, how much John, how much John Wayne had felt like, you know, towards the end of his career, towards the end of his life, Spielberg makes Close Encounters in Jaws.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  He hears Spielberg is making a World War II movie and he wants him. And he gets the script delivered, reads it immediately, and then like on page five, a lady's trying to fuck an airplane. Like.

• 28:31David Sims?

  Hey, John. I mean, I think John Wayne, who is a fascinating figure, like, had, you know, he had this whole complex-

• 28:38Griffin Newman?

  Fascinating political figure.

• 28:39David Sims?

  Well, how he didn't serve, right? And he played all these servicemen in movies and stuff like that. And he, I think, had a weird chip on his shoulder about, like, you know, being a phony actor instead of a real hero.

• 28:50Griffin Newman?

  The chip on his shoulder was like, it was a, uh, he had like imposter syndrome.

• 28:54David Sims?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And the whole thing with John Wayne is, I grew up just thinking that he was this, like, super square, right? Like, that was what I knew about him. Then you start watching John Wayne movies and you're like, this guy really pops. This guy fucking rocks. The screen eats this guy up. He's so good.

• 29:07Griffin Newman?

  He's one of the definitive, I don't know if he's a good actor, but he's an unbelievable movie star guy.

• 29:11David Sims?

  Right. I just wanna watch this guy, like, pour beers, like, this rules. But, um, you know, yeah, like, the zoot suit riots, which are part of this movie-

• 29:20Griffin Newman?

  Big part. And by the way, the extended cut, I was like, trying to look up what the differences are. It feels like it's 90% that plotline-

• 29:28David Sims?

  Right.

• 29:28Griffin Newman?

  -put back in.

• 29:29David Sims?

  That's like a really-

• 29:30Griffin Newman?

  Which is the main thread of the version I watched.

• 29:33David Sims?

  That's like a really interesting, charged, scary part of history, where, like, white soldiers started beating up black people and Mexicans and stuff in, like, the middle of the war and, like, patriotism is curdling. Again, not, and Spielberg's like, well, it's like a big set piece where, like, a bunch of punching happens. Like, this is great.

• 29:52Griffin Newman?

  When I say that his take on the movie is everyone is dumb, I don't mean that in a pointed way where he's, like, trying to comment on, like, human fallibility or whatever. It's just like, going against the adage, like, the comedy adage of, like, play to the top of your intelligence. Like, it's very hard to make audiences find dumb people funny, especially at, like, played at length.

• 30:13David Sims?

  That's-

• 30:14Griffin Newman?

  And this is a movie where everyone is just low intelligence in a way that doesn't feel like it's commentary on anything.

• 30:19David Sims?

  That was my, exactly, like, another reason why the movie isn't funny. It's just a comedy of misunderstandings where you're like-

• 30:27Speaker 05

  Oh, they shoot, John Belushi shoots, uh, Treat Williams is playing, you know what I mean? It's like, and then the, the Japanese submarine is out at sea lost for most of the movie.

• 30:37Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 30:37Speaker 05

  It's like, not, and I get that it's not a real threat and that they're just paranoid, but you're just like, the comedies of misunderstanding is bad.

• 30:44Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 30:45Speaker 05

  It's, it's, it's boring. There's no stakes.

• 30:47David Sims?

  It's boring. Mitch, it's boring. That's exactly what it is.

• 30:50Griffin Newman?

  It's a boring ass movie.

• 30:50David Sims?

  Because you get it right away what the joke is, and then there's not really, yeah, there's submarines still lost.

• 30:55Griffin Newman?

  You're so much smarter than the characters.

• 30:56David Sims?

  Right.

• 30:56Griffin Newman?

  Until your point, like page five, minute five or whatever, you're like, okay, Nancy Allen really wants to fuck airplanes. Where's this going? It goes just there across 10 more scenes.

• 31:07David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 31:07Griffin Newman?

  She just keeps wanting to fuck airplanes.

• 31:09David Sims?

  She's horny about airplanes.

• 31:10Speaker 05

  I was excited when Slim, when Slim Pickens found the, the, in the Cracker Jack box, when they, actually when they found, when the Japanese found the compass. I was like, thank God, they're gonna go to like Hollywood now. And then Slim Pickens swallows it and I was like, fuck. This sucks. Like I want, I want them to go, I want something to happen here. That's why I actually, I liked, I liked the zoot suit stuff just because I, I, at that point, I was like, this is fun to watch.

• 31:37Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 31:37Speaker 05

  You know what I mean?

• 31:37David Sims?

  Yeah, it's fun to watch. Yeah, he's a good director. Like, that's what, the zoot suit ride thing, I'm not mad about it in sort of like, I can't believe he didn't remark on those seriousness. I'm just, again, I'm kind of like, well, there is something to that, but the movie is not interested in whatever there is to that.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  It's not saying anything.

• 31:55David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 31:55Speaker 02

  In, in, in its depiction. I mean, it obviously completely sucks out, uh, you know, it removes the racial element from, uh, from the historical thing. Uh, but like, it's, it also is like, it's depicting it, but not, not saying anything. But, but this, this goes back to a, a thing I was gonna say earlier of like, my tepid defense of this movie is, you watch that sequence and you watch, it begins in the dance hall and that, that, that whole, that big dance contest sequence that turns into a fight. It's like, that's pretty dazzling to watch.

• 32:22David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's an impressive bit of staging and to contrast it with another one, uh, 1941 versus Red One, like, like two, like action comedies that absolutely do not, that, uh, that do not work. Red One is just like a, like a muddy-

• 32:37David Sims?

  That made me mad to compare. I, I, I actually do, I am now, I'm, now I think I like the movie way more.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz Red One is like a muddy, ugly mess. There's nothing to look at in that, that $250 million CG, you know, goop fest that, that's at all like appealing visually. And this movie at least has stuff where it's like, oh, okay, he's doing stuff.

• 32:55David Sims?

  I gotta, I gotta pitch.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:56David Sims?

  1940 Red One.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, there we go.

• 32:59David Sims?

  We pitched that to The Rock. It's, it's bad, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a period piece with, uh, with Callum Drift.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 33:07Griffin Newman?

  Right. To your John Wayne point, Wiggs, like a thing I kept thinking about in that whole anecdote, Mitch, you killed it. Bezos is fucking blowing your phone up right now.

• 33:19Griffin Newman?

  John Wayne, similarly, in this period of time, a couple of years earlier.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 33:24Griffin Newman?

  Was Mel Brooks's first choice for The Waco Kid and Blazing Saddles.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 33:29David Sims?

  I mean, John Wayne died the year this movie came out. He was also like-

• 33:32Griffin Newman?

  This is the very end of his-

• 33:33David Sims?

  Near the end of his life. He obviously suffered from cancer at the end of his life. Yes.

• 33:36Griffin Newman?

  Sends him the Blazing Saddles script. John Wayne reads it, calls Mel Brooks back immediately, is like, this is the funniest thing I've ever read. I could never do this movie.

• 33:45David Sims?

  Right. Okay, so he had good taste on Blazing Saddles?

• 33:48Griffin Newman?

  He was like, you know-

• 33:49David Sims?

  And just again, he was like, I love the slurs. There's so many.

• 33:53Griffin Newman?

  And I get to say all of them? They're like, no, those are the other characters. You're supposed to be a good guy.

• 33:58David Sims?

  To be clear, I'm, I'm, I'm slandering John Wayne when I say that. I don't think he's-

• 34:01Griffin Newman?

  That is a movie that is very pointedly commenting on American racism.

• 34:06David Sims?

  Yes, sure, right. He said it. And he's a big-

• 34:08Griffin Newman?

  For a racist old man, right? And was basically like, this script is really funny. I think it'll be a great movie. His famous line was, I won't do it, but I'll be first in line to see it.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 34:18Griffin Newman?

  And he just was like, I think my fans will murder me. And I don't think it will help your movie. I think it will like lend too much baggage to-

• 34:24David Sims?

  I would have fucked up the movie. I think he's too, right. He's too big a deal for that movie.

• 34:27Griffin Newman?

  He was 100% right, but like he read that script and was like, I get it. I get what you're doing here. Which makes like the framework of his like absolute dead-on precision, this is the problem with 1941 on paper. All the more like, he wasn't just reacting to something being counter-cultural. You know, he wasn't just being conservative. He was like, this sucks.

• 34:52David Sims?

  Do you know what John Wayne's tombstone says?

• 34:56Griffin Newman?

  Lerret.

• 34:57David Sims?

  That's what was in Nielsen's tombstone. It's my favorite tombstone of all time. His tombstone says feo, fuerte y formal, Spanish for ugly, strong and dignified. He requested that be on his tombstone. Uh, anyway, um.

• 35:18Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 35:18David Sims?

  Yes.

• 35:19Griffin Newman?

  Mmm.

• 35:22David Sims?

  Is that the Cineas cow?

• 35:24Griffin Newman?

  The Cineas cow is back.

• 35:25David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 35:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 35:31David Sims?

  Okay.

• 35:32Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 35:36David Sims?

  Wow.

• 35:37Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 35:39David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up. While you, while you tell the, the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 35:45Griffin Newman?

  Well, movie is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what movie does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, one of my favorite movies of the year.

• 35:59David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 36:00Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 36:06David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 36:07Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburn, past and future guest.

• 36:09David Sims?

  Past and future guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest, a great friend.

• 36:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 36:15David Sims?

  Um, this movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 36:20Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 36:21David Sims?

  Legends and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 36:23Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 36:24David Sims?

  Friend of the show Zach Cherry.

• 36:26Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 36:27David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 36:28Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 36:29David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. Won the Queer Palmitan. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like it obviously has, it was out in theaters, uh, this summer and now it's on movie.

• 36:39Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays the filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 36:53David Sims?

  Yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 36:58Griffin Newman?

  What happened?

• 37:00Griffin Newman?

  It's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 37:10David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on MUBI, and you can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com/blankcheck. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 37:22Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for my asthma.

• 37:27David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 37:32Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 37:33David Sims?

  Yes?

• 37:33Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 37:54David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 38:14Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 38:30David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby-atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/ListenToDracula.

• 39:04Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 39:05David Sims?

  Yes?

• 39:05Griffin Newman?

  Ugh.

• 39:06David Sims?

  Uh oh.

• 39:07Griffin Newman?

  It's November.

• 39:08David Sims?

  Ah.

• 39:10Griffin Newman?

  And you know what that means, the old stereotype about November.

• 39:12David Sims?

  Turkeys?

• 39:13Griffin Newman?

  One long sprint to the finish line.

• 39:15David Sims?

  Oh, of course.

• 39:16Griffin Newman?

  Packed schedule, questionable food choices, and somehow a social calendar that got way fuller than you planned. And I ain't talking about Sam Fuller. We're not covering him yet in the podcast.

• 39:25David Sims?

  No, although maybe we should.

• 39:26Griffin Newman?

  We might get there eventually.

• 39:27David Sims?

  I can't remember. Big red one. We can call it the Big Red Podcast.

• 39:31Griffin Newman?

  Listen, when things get complicated, not when life is easy and when you got time for a whole routine, right now when everything is full and something has to give one scoop cold water every morning before anything else, as I like to say, scoop there it is.

• 39:44David Sims?

  You do like to say that every morning you text me scoop there it is. And that means I now know that you had your AG1.

• 39:51Griffin Newman?

  And I'm awake.

• 39:52David Sims?

  Uh, but yeah, you're, I know you're, you're a daily AG1 user and it's basically the, uh, the glue that holds your internal organs together at this point.

• 40:00Griffin Newman?

  It's not just marketing. AG1 Next Gen is backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials, not weekend a study.

• 40:07David Sims?

  Thank you for that.

• 40:08Griffin Newman?

  Four independent studies with key nutrient levels improved within three months of consistent use. This is the thing I like about AG1. They're not resting on their laurels. They constantly work to better themselves.

• 40:20David Sims?

  Um, yes, AG1, they've got now AG1 Pro.

• 40:24Griffin Newman?

  For the professionals.

• 40:25David Sims?

  Same daily drink now with a performance and recovery layer built in. So you got five grams of Cre vitalis, a premium German made creatine monohydrate, and one of the most studied compounds in sports science, plus CAHMB for muscle production and zinc carnosine for gut support.

• 40:43Griffin Newman?

  Thank God.

• 40:44David Sims?

  Next Gen is the foundation. Pro adds what your body needs to recover.

• 40:48Griffin Newman?

  You might be having some big meals this November. AG1 is what you need to keep your gut in check. Keep things, as I like to put it, regular.

• 40:56David Sims?

  Yes. So for a limited time, visit drinkag1.com/chek and get a free immune support bundle, including omega three fish oil and vitamin D three plus K two with your first subscription of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/chek. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Blank Check sent you.

• 41:26David Sims?

  1941. So in 1973, Steven Spielberg made a movie called The Sugarland Express. He had a preview screening for it at USC's film school. And in attendance was Robert Zemeckis.

• 41:37Griffin Newman?

  Bobby Z.

• 41:38David Sims?

  Who is attending film school and tracks down Spielberg and says, please watch my 15-minute short film, A Field of Honor, about a combat veteran who's gone crazy. And he'd written it with his friend Bob Gale. It won the special jury prize at the Student Academy Awards, and Spielberg was blown away by it.

• 41:56Griffin Newman?

  And we covered Zemeckis years ago. That short is notably like a pitch black, hyper like political, sort of like countercultural satire.

• 42:08David Sims?

  Right.

• 42:08Griffin Newman?

  It is the kind of tone that this movie is going for. That's what first gets Zemeckis on Spielberg's radar.

• 42:15David Sims?

  And they, those guys graduate as Zemeckis and Gale, the two Bobs, as you call them. They, they write some TV. They work on a movie called Tank about oil protesters.

• 42:28Griffin Newman?

  This is where this sort of starts.

• 42:30David Sims?

  Who are gonna blow up a building with a Sherman tank.

• 42:32Griffin Newman?

  Right. They have Spielberg's ear. His star just keeps on rising. He's kind of taken him under his wing as proteges. He's also introduced them to John Milius.

• 42:40David Sims?

  Yes, this is how they meet John Milius.

• 42:42Griffin Newman?

  Spielberg, once a week, goes skeet shooting with John Milius, I believe.

• 42:46David Sims?

  I, I guess so.

• 42:49Griffin Newman?

  They certainly, they go, they go out hunting or whatever.

• 42:52David Sims?

  Sure.

• 42:53Griffin Newman?

  And he introduces them and they're sort of like, how do we write a script that one of these guys will buy? And Milius had some sort of deal set up where he was guaranteed two pictures as director and three pictures as a producer. And this is coming off the success of Patton, where there was a big, let's valorize the military kind of like trend in Hollywood. So the Tank thing, I think, starts as them being like, how do we write something that would appeal to Milius and also would likely get greenlit? They're just looking to get something off the ground.

• 43:29David Sims?

  Uh, yes, they wrote a script called The Night the Japanese Attacked. Initially, it had a slur in the title.

• 43:34Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 43:35David Sims?

  Then it was called The Rising Sun. And they were like, yeah, Wesley Snipes is gonna wanna make a Rising Sun movie. So we'll, we'll hold off on that.

• 43:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 43:41David Sims?

  Uh, so it gets called 1941. This outrageous concept about hysteria on the home front after Pearl Harbor. It is based on three events, none of which happened at the same time. The, the Japanese sub being sighted off the coast of Santa Barbara in February 42. That happened. That led to the Battle of Los Angeles, where people started shooting in the sky at probably nothing, uh, because they thought they were being invaded. And in 1943, the sort of zoot suit riots between sailors and zoot suiters who were being seen as unpatriotic for not signing up. You know, they were like anti-authority.

• 44:13Griffin Newman?

  But they're like pulling all these pieces of like the whole Ned Beatty plotline of this guy getting a fucking like aircraft gun in his backyard did happen, but not in California and in a different year. But they were just sort of like plucking. I mean, Tank, I'm, I'm forgetting what the take on Tank was, but it was some other pitch. And then they bring it to Millieus. He's like, eh. I, but what, what else you guys thinking in terms of war? They start talking about the Battle of California. Uh, then, then it like morphs into like, try writing something like that. They think to write it as a drama. And then at some point it shifts into comedy.

• 44:51David Sims?

  Well, Spielberg is looking to make a movie. So Spielberg had made these movies, Jaws and Close Encounters. You guys like those movies?

• 44:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:58David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 44:59Speaker 04

  Pretty good.

• 45:01Speaker 05

  I was, by the way, I just wanna say that I might just get fail on my grave. Just ugly.

• 45:10Speaker 05

  Forget the strong and dignified. I, I've been holding that in for a long time. I wanted.

• 45:14David Sims?

  Glad we returned it. Fired that off right away.

• 45:16Speaker 05

  I, I, I, I, Jaws is probably my top 10 films of all time.

• 45:21Griffin Newman?

  You're a big Jaws guy.

• 45:23Speaker 05

  Love Jaws.

• 45:23Griffin Newman?

  I, I love Jaws. I love Close Encounters. Actually, maybe I have Close Encounters ranked above Jaws on my personal list, but I, they're both like incredible movies.

• 45:31Speaker 05

  Jurassic Park to me is, was, is the king. I mean, like, that's like the perfect age. I saw that movie. I, I just, uh, it was. Yeah. And, and, and, but Jaws is like. Going down to Cape Cod when I was younger and Jaws being on in the summer, it's like what, like the idea of movies even just came from Jaws, I feel like, and that, so that's like, and they're the best. It's the, it's, it's one of the best of all time. And, you know, 1941 is a, it's a movie.

• 45:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 46:00David Sims?

  Yeah. So Spielberg's thinking of, how do I follow those two movies? Uh, he circled a pirate's pirate movie.

• 46:06Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 46:06David Sims?

  Uh, that was being written by Jeff Fiskin, uh, that he wanted to be like an old fashioned sort of Errol Flynn movie. He exits that movie because pirate movies are just not hot.

• 46:14Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:15David Sims?

  Uh, he's briefly attached to something called the Bingo, Long, Traveling All Stars and Motor Kings.

• 46:20Griffin Newman?

  That was made, was it not?

• 46:21David Sims?

  Yeah. Uh, John Badham directs it, uh, whatever. He also.

• 46:26Griffin Newman?

  Is it Matthew Robbins?

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Troy McClure movie.

• 46:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 46:29David Sims?

  It really does. The contabilous fantaption of whatever.

• 46:33Griffin Newman?

  It is a Robbins though, right?

• 46:34David Sims?

  Uh, Matthew Robbins wrote it with Hal Barwood, the Sugarland Express guys.

• 46:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 46:39David Sims?

  He also, uh, circled Magic, the haunted puppet movie with Anthony Hopkins that Richard Attenborough ends up making.

• 46:46Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 46:47David Sims?

  Uh, he was gonna make it with De Niro.

• 46:50Griffin Newman?

  Imagine how that puppet would look.

• 46:51David Sims?

  Yeah, I don't know. Uh, but then he was like, Attenborough did a great job with it, did a better job than me. I, whatever. I don't know. Um, instead, he's sort of thinking like, what if I do a big swerve, right?

• 47:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 47:05David Sims?

  How about a comedy? Um, Millyus, I think, was sort of initially gonna direct this movie.

• 47:12Griffin Newman?

  Yes. So.

• 47:13David Sims?

  John Millyus, who's obviously a very chill and normal guy who, uh, was, uh, kinda older, I feel like than the rest. Maybe a little older than the Spielberg, De Palmas, but was sort of friends with all of them.

• 47:24Griffin Newman?

  There was a chain of sort of, uh, uh, Coppola, uh, mentored Millyus.

• 47:29David Sims?

  Right. Millyus co-wrote Apocalypse Now.

• 47:32Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 47:32David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:33Griffin Newman?

  And, and Coppola kinda stamped him and verified him. And then he kind of took Spielberg and Lucas under his wing and De Palma. There was this chain in the way that Millyus.

• 47:42David Sims?

  But then they pass him.

• 47:44Griffin Newman?

  Yes, they all do.

• 47:45David Sims?

  I mean, I've Millius's big best known movie is Conan, The Barbarian, if you've heard of him.

• 47:50Griffin Newman?

  But all those guys talk about Millius as like the greatest writer amongst all of them. Wiger took a banana out of his pocket. I thought he was happy to see us. And in fact, there was a banana in his pocket and now he's eating a banana.

• 48:02Speaker 05

  We were enjoying your guys convo. You guys were, you were doing a better job than we could ever do talking about this movie. And we looked at each other and we nodded and we took out food and we started eating.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  We decided while you're on your John Millius tangent, we're like, we're gonna deploy Chekhov snacks. So Mitch grabs his kind bar and I grab my banana and we're having a great time.

• 48:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, we're having a great, we're having a great time.

• 48:22David Sims?

  And Jimmy's sitting on the couch, by the way, for all the, for all the real heads.

• 48:26Griffin Newman?

  We should credit Jimmy in the title of the episode as the third guest.

• 48:28Speaker 02

  Jimmy is, Jimmy is Emma's dog for people who aren't regular Doughboys listeners. I'm our producer.

• 48:34David Sims?

  Um, so.

• 48:36Griffin Newman?

  What I was gonna say is Millius has this deal at the time.

• 48:39David Sims?

  Right.

• 48:39Griffin Newman?

  Right? At, set up at MGM. So he brings the script to MGM. The first note is you gotta change that fucking title, right? That's when they changed the title and the head of MGM at the time reads it and is like, I don't get this. Absolutely not. Passes on it.

• 48:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 48:54Griffin Newman?

  Then a year passes and when Spielberg's like, I don't know what to do next, which I get. I understand how, if you make Jaws when you're in your twenties and is the biggest movie in history, then you follow it up by making this incredibly personal movie that is going over budget and over schedule and everyone thinks is gonna be your folly and then that succeeds wildly.

• 49:14David Sims?

  Right.

• 49:14Griffin Newman?

  You're like, what the fuck do I do now?

• 49:16David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 49:17Griffin Newman?

  And you're reading a script like magic that is good on paper, but you're like, is this too small? Like, how do I outdo myself? What feels like it's living up to the expectation I've set for myself? Like, it is safer to do the thing that on paper seems more dangerous in a certain way?

• 49:34David Sims?

  He's drawn to two things.

• 49:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 49:36David Sims?

  He likes the Ferris wheel sequence.

• 49:37Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 49:38David Sims?

  His Spielberg brain immediately is sort of like, I, that'd be fun to do.

• 49:41Griffin Newman?

  Cause he's originally just reading it as a friend of the camp. Yeah.

• 49:44David Sims?

  Uh, but then, secondly, more importantly, he's like, yeah, what if I did something wild and funny? Um, you know, like, uh. I didn't approach it like as an experiment, but I thought it'd be a great opportunity, he says, to see, to break a lot of furniture, see a lot of glass shattering. It was basically written and directed as one would perform in a demolition derby.

• 50:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 50:06David Sims?

  I mean, he's sort of saying that his mistake right there, where he's basically like leading with the spectacle.

• 50:12Griffin Newman?

  Right. But it's like, this is his metal machine music, where he's like, what if it's like all antagonistic and extreme and it's just chaos?

• 50:20David Sims?

  He doesn't have a passion project, so this becomes the clearest thing for him to do.

• 50:25Griffin Newman?

  And Close Encounters felt like, this is my most personal movie. This is the most personal film I'm capable of making at this point. So he's like cashed in that chip already and it's worked. This was the other, the reason I'm winding up this whole thing, is when Spielberg signs on, he goes, they go to Columbia, because he had just done Close Encounters with them, to say, this is the next movie I want to make. And in the year that it passed, the now head of Columbia was the guy who had passed on the movie at MGM. And he rereads the script.

• 50:53David Sims?

  Right.

• 50:53Griffin Newman?

  And he's like, I still think this isn't good. I stand by my assessment, this isn't good. But I guess if Steven Spielberg wants to make it.

• 51:02David Sims?

  But it wasn't a Columbia movie, it was a Universal movie.

• 51:04Griffin Newman?

  So then, he had a first look deal at Universal still left over from Jaws. And the budget was getting so big, that he went to Universal and convinced them to team up on it. And Universal ended up getting the bigger piece of it, but it was a co-production. But I just like that everyone involved was like, we said no to this movie two years ago. We stand by that you haven't fixed it. But I guess if Spielberg sees something in it, that there's something we're not getting. So everyone's kind of going into this movie being like, bad idea.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  It makes total sense why everyone would say yes to it, given his recent track record. And also makes total sense why he would feel a bit of hubris. You know, like, it's, I, I, I understand absolutely how everyone arrived at this. It's a, just to return to the Ferris wheel real quick, which I think is a good, another good sequence. Like, it's like, you know, again, there's, there's stuff to, there's stuff purely from a visual standpoint, um, that's, that's, that's very engrossing in this movie. I mean, just even just a high angle shot he does, uh, to connect the, uh, you know, the people in the Ferris wheel cart to the ground. It's just like, that, you know, like, that, that, we're, we're talking one perfect frame. I mean, it's like, that's, it's a good shot, you know? Um, but I feel like the Ferris wheel becoming unmoored from

• 52:18Speaker 02

  its hinges and rolling down the, uh, the boulevard, that feels like something Ben would like. Ben, am I correct there?

• 52:25Griffin Newman?

  Oh, this is, what a great instinct, Wiger.

• 52:28David Sims?

  Did you like 1941, Ben? Yeah, we haven't checked in with your opinion.

• 52:31Speaker 04

  Well, okay, so I wanted to be comprehensive, right? Going into this.

• 52:35Griffin Newman?

  So you started from watching 1900 and worked your way up to 1940?

• 52:38Speaker 04

  I started with year one.

• 52:40David Sims?

  Yeah, good, good.

• 52:41Griffin Newman?

  Better joke, better joke, better joke.

• 52:43Speaker 04

  No, it's okay.

• 52:44Griffin Newman?

  I stepped on it.

• 52:44Speaker 04

  But I, I'm, I'm familiar enough with the Ferris wheel and to answer your question, Weigs?

• 52:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 52:50Speaker 04

  A hundred percent, man.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  Hell, yeah.

• 52:52Griffin Newman?

  Now, I, I think Weigs is on to something here, which on paper, this should be your kind of movie. Like, you loved Crime Wave, the Raimi movie that Raimi's kind of disowned.

• 53:02Speaker 04

  Sure, yes.

• 53:02Griffin Newman?

  That is similarly all kind of like live action cartoon, like people bonking each other on the head.

• 53:08Speaker 04

  A lot of yelling.

• 53:08Griffin Newman?

  And chaos.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  Very slapstick-y, yeah.

• 53:11Griffin Newman?

  Right. Done at a very small budget, but like, at this kind of manic pitch the entire time. This movie has elements that feel like they should be fucking catnip to you.

• 53:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, and even just like the kind of, uh, porch-esque quality of it, right?

• 53:26David Sims?

  Yeah, it's a big TV movie.

• 53:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, this could just not grab my interest.

• 53:32Griffin Newman?

  It's a real, like, eyes sliding off the screen thing.

• 53:35David Sims?

  I, that's how I felt watching it. Uh, the thing I said to you, I already forgot.

• 53:39Griffin Newman?

  Oh, that you texted, yeah.

• 53:40David Sims?

  Uh, was, I'm watching 1941 right now and it's such a slog. I think it's ruining my day. Definitely that, not just Sunday with three children.

• 53:49David Sims?

  This anecdote I really like. Spielberg's making Close Encounters. He's talking to Francois Truffaut, one of the great filmmakers and an idol of Steven Spielberg's, who's in the film.

• 53:58Griffin Newman?

  Could just be clear, he is actively developing this script overseeing rewrites while he's making Close Encounters.

• 54:05David Sims?

  Truffaut is says, and this is Spielberg quoting him, "I like you with kids. You are wonderful with kids. You must do a movie with just kids." And Spielberg's like, "Well, yeah, I've always wanted to do something like that, but I've got to finish this, and then I'm gonna do 1941, which is this movie about Japanese attacking Los Angeles." And Truffaut just apparently said, "You are the child." And was like, "You're making a huge mistake." So Truffaut was right. And he takes Truffaut's advice and is like, "Yeah, I guess I'll knock out a kinda like Raiders, E.T., double bill after this, just to kinda fucking level it out." That's the thing about Spielberg, where you're like, "Oh, 1941, what a bomb. How'd he follow that up?" It's like, I don't know, Raiders of the Lost Ark and E.T.'s.

• 54:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 54:47David Sims?

  So maybe just go and like suck his dick.

• 54:50Griffin Newman?

  But this is, well, gladly, but this is, this is what is fascinating to me. Talking about this movie, just like, the weirdness of it treating World War II like it was a canard, right? Like, this movie tries to like wag the dog World War II, or like the thing that like Doctor Strangelove does, where it like creates an incident that never happened, right? Based around like the Cold War and the Missile Crisis and paranoia and all this sort of stuff. He's like riffing on a thing that we know turned out horrifically.

• 55:21David Sims?

  Right.

• 55:21Griffin Newman?

  For like, most of the planet.

• 55:23David Sims?

  Yes, bad.

• 55:24Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then the movie he does right after this is a like adventure serial where the villains are the Nazis, set during the exact same time period.

• 55:33David Sims?

  True.

• 55:33Griffin Newman?

  And he finds the right way to thread the needle. And of course, like post Schindler, he said like, "I couldn't do another Indiana Jones movie where the villains are Nazis because I took it too seriously at that point, and I didn't wanna make light of it." But you're like, fucking Last Crusade and Raiders have this balance on like, somehow keeping in mind the enormity of the tragedy and the villainy and all of that sort of stuff, without it being distracting. Whereas this movie, you're just like, "Hey, can we just like remember what's going on in the background here?"

• 56:05David Sims?

  Yeah, I, you're right. Uh, there's so much to say. I mean, he also tried to make this movie called Growing Up. I'm just gonna kind of move past that. We can talk about it later.

• 56:13Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 56:13David Sims?

  Episode.

• 56:14Griffin Newman?

  Was Growing Up the original sort of Fableman?

• 56:17David Sims?

  Yeah, people sort of think that Zemeckis and Gale wrote it.

• 56:20Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 56:21David Sims?

  For him, because he was like, do you want to write a movie about kids for me?

• 56:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 56:24David Sims?

  And they said, like, it kind of, it was like a nerd versus jocks thing. It wasn't like a sensitive, like, divorce movie.

• 56:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 56:31David Sims?

  Uh, and that they like got some money and Spielberg was like casting kids and Caleb Deschanel, the cinematographer, was like, this fucking sucks. This script is ass. And like, I don't think you have a good idea here. And Spielberg is like, yeah, forget it. I won't do this. And he, ET is what he sort of settles on later.

• 56:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 56:50David Sims?

  Anyway, instead, he decides to do this gigantic, you know, overwhelming, expensive movie, even though this is a comedy. Uh, about, again, nothing in particular.

• 57:01Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 57:02David Sims?

  It just screams like money. It's crowd, sets.

• 57:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 57:06David Sims?

  Explosions, like you're saying, like, it's like that Armageddon commentary where, you know, the iconic DVD commentary for Armageddon where Ben Affleck is like Three Sheets of the Wind. And like in the first scene, there's the helicopters taking off behind Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck on the oil rig. And Ben Affleck's like, that just costs $250,000.

• 57:25Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 57:25David Sims?

  Like, it doesn't need to be there. It's not part of the plot. There doesn't need to be a helicopter taking off right now. And that's just $250,000, like, right behind us, just like drowning us out. That's what this movie is all the time.

• 57:36Griffin Newman?

  This movie feels like that is the explicit purpose of every scene.

• 57:39David Sims?

  Right.

• 57:39Griffin Newman?

  Like, the center of every scene is the most expensive thing that's happening in the scene, not just as a background element.

• 57:45Speaker 05

  But also, who is the star of this movie?

• 57:48Griffin Newman?

  Great question.

• 57:49David Sims?

  Because I walked into this movie, I loaded this movie up being like, well, Belushi is kind of the star, right? And it's like, no, Belushi's just punctuation.

• 57:56Griffin Newman?

  It's, oh, it's a classic Akroyd-Belushi two-hander. And I'm watching it and like, an hour and 20 minutes in, I was like, Jesus Christ, are they never gonna interact in this movie?

• 58:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 58:06Griffin Newman?

  There's the point where they're both on the same street, but I think Akroyd's knocked out and Belushi's on the other end. And I'm like, but they're physically in the same space. Are they finally gonna link up? And then they like go off in opposite directions. And at the end of the movie, they salute each other in coverage. They literally never appear in the same shot. It is so insane to make a Belushi-Akroyd comedy in 1979 and go,

• 58:30David Sims?

  Right.

• 58:31Griffin Newman?

  what if they never talk to each other?

• 58:34Speaker 05

  That's, uh, uh, that, that was, it, it, I feel like it has that problem of like a Caddyshack or something, which by the way, I love Caddyshack, of course.

• 58:41Griffin Newman?

  Caddyshack's pretty good.

• 58:42Speaker 05

  But, but the, the Wally is maybe, and Wally doesn't do a bad job, that guy Wally.

• 58:49Griffin Newman?

  A young guy, yeah.

• 58:50Speaker 05

  Young guy.

• 58:50Griffin Newman?

  He's the.

• 58:51Speaker 05

  My cat's name, I love the name. I, I just am like, he, uh, uh, this is, this is maybe the main character of the movie, right?

• 58:58Speaker 02

  This is a character who wins the dance contest? Yeah, yeah. So it's kind of the zoot suitor, um, yeah.

• 59:02Griffin Newman?

  So that's, right.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  It's, it's, yeah, he's the closest thing there is to a lead, but it's, even he's like kind of hard to track. And he seems like a peripheral character the way he's introduced.

• 59:11Griffin Newman?

  The extended cut is mostly adding in the meat of his story.

• 59:15David Sims?

  Cause he's in, uh, I Want to Hold Your Hand. He's in the Zemeckis movie, I Want to Hold Your Hand, which is the year before this.

• 59:20Griffin Newman?

  This carries over Wendy Jo Sperber and then Eddie Deezen and a lot of early Zemeckis dot company people that we talked about when we did that series.

• 59:27Speaker 05

  I think he's pretty good in this. I was actually surprised that he didn't, his, he didn't do too, I mean, he'd worked consistently, but nothing really huge ever.

• 59:34David Sims?

  Never got famous, did kind of just fizzle out. He does, yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe it's just sort of like, there's other guys like him.

• 59:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but they talked about like, as the script was getting unwieldy, Gale and Zemeckis were like, we should identify a kind of like central viewpoint character that you can go back to with like an emotional through line to track as we're like cutting across all these storylines.

• 59:58David Sims?

  It's sort of.

• 59:59Griffin Newman?

  Sort of. Look, he's not bad, but in the like cacophony of this movie, it, it doesn't like help clarify the movie. And you're also like, this isn't that gripping against the scale of the other shit happening. And Universal famously like freaked out like six weeks before this movie came out. And we're like, this thing is unwieldy and their expectations are another Spielberg blockbuster. You need to cut 30 minutes out. And they cut 30 minutes out like last second and unsurprisingly, they cut down the 30 minutes with the least famous person.

• 1:00:32David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:00:32Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  The, so, so.

• 1:00:34Speaker 05

  Which he is, he is the most boring though. I mean, like, it also is like, I do wanna see more Belushi.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  I get it.

• 1:00:38Speaker 05

  I wanna see the other people, but it just doesn't.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:00:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  He's the most vanilla character, but, but, although vanilla's a flavor, but the, the, he's like, he's like the most like, just kinda straight laced, like, you know, like, the closest thing the movie has to protagonists. But even the way he's introduced in the diner, he's, Glenn Miller's in the mood, is, is playing and he's doing like, you know, the jitterbug. Like, he seems crazy there. The way that, that you're on boarded to this character, cuz they're, they're making, like, he's washing dishes, they're doing a little Hobbit dishwashing song, and, um, and.

• 1:01:04Speaker 05

  You don't even know if you're supposed to like.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  You don't even know if you're supposed to like him, like, and then the other guy who's making breakfast is like, dropping whole eggs with shell onto the flat top, and it's just like, what, what is going on here? Everyone's just batshit.

• 1:01:14Griffin Newman?

  The amount of shit that happens in the first 15 minutes of this movie, it is disorienting, cuz you like, cannot find a handle of like, what am I supposed to be focusing on?

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:22Griffin Newman?

  Let's also just acknowledge, the cold open of this movie is like, I feel like, one of the most infamously hubristic moments.

• 1:01:30Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:01:30Griffin Newman?

  It is the thing where like, Spielberg talks about, everyone wanted to take him down a peg, they were looking for like, a way to ding his armor. Everyone's going into this movie, the expectations are unreasonable, even if it had been good but not great, people would've had their knives out. And the opening scene of the movie is Spielberg parodying himself.

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:49Griffin Newman?

  And people just take out machetes. And they're just like, fuck this so hard right off the bat.

• 1:01:55Speaker 05

  I, look, we were, we talked about this a little before we started recording, and I did that, my first thing that I wrote down, of course, is the first thing that happens in the movie, but I was like, would the Jaws parody annoy me today, like, if it was a different director that was parodying his own movie? And I don't know if it, I maybe would even like it, I can't tell, but it is, there's a lot of hubris from, from Spielberg, but I.

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:02:19Speaker 05

  I, it doesn't bother me that much, I guess, but also is that through the lens of me being a child that was raised on Jaws and loving Jaws? I can't, I don't know.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  I, it's, it. I think it plays pretty, it like feels pretty obnoxious to like parody your own thing. It feels a little, you know, um, I, I understand as a way to way to start the movie. It's a little off putting.

• 1:02:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was just saying, I gave it, I gave it points for being hornier.

• 1:02:45Speaker 02

  It is a little hornier. It's the same actress, right?

• 1:02:47Griffin Newman?

  Way hornier. It's the same actress. And part of this is maybe the weird Zemeckis thing, because Zemeckis is, as we uncovered, maybe the horniest man alive.

• 1:02:56David Sims?

  But like horny in a very like old school, kind of like a G I.

• 1:03:00Griffin Newman?

  Canty Ray.

• 1:03:01David Sims?

  Has, right, like a sort of busty lady pinned up in his locker or whatever, where he's like, checkaloo, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, like that's his horny vibe.

• 1:03:11Griffin Newman?

  Did I say this in our here episode?

• 1:03:12David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 1:03:13Griffin Newman?

  That I, I, I was communicated to by, by someone who had worked with Zemeckis on developing a project that didn't happen in the last five years and said that they had a meeting with him for three hours. And the only two things you wanted to talk about were boobs and special effects.

• 1:03:30David Sims?

  What did he want to say about boobs?

• 1:03:32Griffin Newman?

  Everything, apparently.

• 1:03:34David Sims?

  I, I don't understand.

• 1:03:35Griffin Newman?

  But like had no like story notes, casting ideas.

• 1:03:38David Sims?

  He's just like, I'm thinking big boobs for this one.

• 1:03:40Griffin Newman?

  But just like, you know what I like? Areolas.

• 1:03:44David Sims?

  Jesus Christ.

• 1:03:45Speaker 05

  By the way, if there was like, if the shark was there and his fin got bigger after seeing the girl or something, I would have liked something like that. Like, give me the naked gun.

• 1:03:53David Sims?

  That's already funnier.

• 1:03:54Griffin Newman?

  That's already a better bit.

• 1:03:56Speaker 05

  Give me the naked gun version. Why, why, why are you holding back, which is the halfway point?

• 1:04:01David Sims?

  Spielberg is too smart, and I think Zemeckis and Gale are too smart to, to actually do the great naked gun shit. Where it's like, yeah, this should have no rocks in its brain. Like, it should be so dumb.

• 1:04:12Griffin Newman?

  Can I, can I open a little naked gun tangent here?

• 1:04:14David Sims?

  Please.

• 1:04:15Griffin Newman?

  I do a yearly rewatch of the trilogy.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  Great.

• 1:04:17Griffin Newman?

  The first, second and third funniest movies ever made. Uh, did that pretty recently, right? Naked Gun two and a half, which is the first one that David Zucker directs solo. But Jerry Zucker and Jim Abrahams were still producers and writers on it. So they were all involved. Comes out after Ghost, which Jerry had directed solo, had been this big transition. I'm a serious filmmaker movie that's a huge blockbuster and an Oscar nominee and winner and everything. Naked Gun two and a half, parodies Ghost. It is like the only other example I could really think of, of the exact same thing you're saying. Making fun of your own movie. Doing it that closely after, right?

• 1:05:00Griffin Newman?

  There's the slight bit of difference of like, this is David kind of ribbing his brother, right? So it's not quite the same director, but Jerry's still involved. It's not the cold open. It was the trailer for the movie. Right. It doesn't feel galling. It feels like kind of funny that it's like this guy who went serious is cutting himself back down to size. And also it's within a framework where that is what is expected. If you're gonna make a Naked Gun movie after you've made a Best Picture nominee, you have to make fun of yourself, right? Like, everything needs to be on the table. But watching that and thinking of other spoof movies and everything, it hit me while watching 1941 last night, is there a fundamental rule that if you're spoofing something, it has

• 1:05:44Griffin Newman?

  to cost less money than the real thing you're spoofing? It should look a little jankier. Yeah, it shouldn't look better. I think that, I think that's, that's kind of like, just kind of like a sketch comedy sort of Right. Rule. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, you guys have worked in the same kind of like sketch comedy doldrums that I have and especially like, you know, 2000's video sketches. Yeah. There is a level where the production value is so bad that it actually fails to function as a parody. I think of like a lot of like, what if Wes Anderson directed blank videos that are bad? Where you're like, if you can't successfully approximate his style, the satire doesn't work. But yet, you need to get within spitting distance. And like Mel Brooks movies, Naked Gun movies, like all of them hit the right balance

• 1:06:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Of like, this is done with genuine craft, they approximate the thing just enough, but it doesn't feel like you're thinking about how much it cost.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  There's almost like a, yeah. So, sorry, Ben Shat.

• 1:06:42Griffin Newman?

  Did this cost more than any other war movie that had been made up until that point?

• 1:06:46David Sims?

  I mean, that's a fair.

• 1:06:46Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's kind of the last action hero sort of issue too, right? It's just like, that feels like kind of too, and last action hero works better than 1941. But it, it kind of feels too expensive to be parodying, to be a parody. Yeah, it's, it's, there's kind of like a weird, like, double uncanny valley with parody. Cause it's like, there's also, you can though have like, a, a, a TikTok where someone has like a paper bag over their head. And that kind of works. But then, once you start making it feel like a real thing, it needs to have a certain level of, of, of, you know, fidelity behind it to feel like a parody. But then you go too far and then it stops feeling like it's, it's any fun at all.

• 1:07:22Griffin Newman?

  You're dead on. Right. Cause you can get away with nothing, or you can get away with getting fairly close. But you can't go over, and ideally you want to exist in that like middle space, which is really hard to hit.

• 1:07:33Speaker 05

  And you're right, cause that whole sequence of her come, going up on the periscope or, uh, like it looks great. It like, it looks.

• 1:07:42David Sims?

  It looks impressive.

• 1:07:43Speaker 05

  It looks impressive, it does, yeah. But, but then the payoff is like a Japanese man being like, Hollywood, like seeing the girl's butt.

• 1:07:51David Sims?

  And truly doing like Borat horny noises at her. Like, I mean, it's like, you're just like, oh, okay, cool, great.

• 1:07:57Griffin Newman?

  Right, cause the bit is, you start with the same actress doing the same night swim scene from Jaws.

• 1:08:01David Sims?

  And then they're kind of mimicking the music and then they're just doing the music.

• 1:08:04Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:08:04David Sims?

  To be, John Williams' score for 1941, kind of goes.

• 1:08:07Griffin Newman?

  It kind of goes.

• 1:08:08David Sims?

  He showed up.

• 1:08:09Griffin Newman?

  It was, it was ear warmed into my head last night when I was trying to fall asleep. But, uh, you know, rather than a shark, the thing that pops out of the water is this German submarine. And she's riding on the like periscope and it feels very phallic. And as you said, these soldiers all come out. The Jaws opening is just this classic like, man, look at the fucking Spielberg magic. They couldn't get the shark to work. He had to design a sequence where you don't see the shark. It's all suggestion. You're like, that sequence costs so little money to construct.

• 1:08:38David Sims?

  True.

• 1:08:38Griffin Newman?

  The moment the submarine starts coming out of the water and she's like straddling the periscope, you're like, too expensive. Too expensive, too complicated, not funny. You know, it's like, you have made something more technically complex than the thing you're parodying.

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  There's another bit of self-reference in this as well, right? Is, because I believe it's, is it the actress from Duel? Uh, the, the gas station operator?

• 1:09:00Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, also in this.

• 1:09:01Griffin Newman?

  The Snake Lady.

• 1:09:02David Sims?

  The Snake Lady.

• 1:09:02Speaker 02

  The Snake Lady, yes.

• 1:09:03David Sims?

  Belushi fills up his plane and then, right.

• 1:09:05Griffin Newman?

  Like, I'm almost astonished this movie doesn't have a Close Encounters parody as well.

• 1:09:11David Sims?

  That sequence is kind of funny.

• 1:09:13Griffin Newman?

  I think.

• 1:09:14David Sims?

  The plane, like, you know, the, the, the gas are up and then like, the, this, you know, the, the gas going everywhere. It's kind of funny.

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  I guess the nozzle, the, the unwieldy nozzle kind of like, you know, uh, being similar to the snakes. I guess that's what it's trying to reference. I don't know, maybe, yeah, it's, that, that one's, that, that part's okay.

• 1:09:32Speaker 05

  I just like Sims so half-heartedly being like, eh, it's kind of funny. Um.

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  It kind of works.

• 1:09:37David Sims?

  I was sort of chuckling.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:38Griffin Newman?

  But also, like, Spielberg says this on the fucking LaserDisc where he's like, this is something only Duel diehards will pick up. But I'm like, right, at the time of this release, Duel is a TV movie.

• 1:09:48David Sims?

  If you caught it on television, right. It's not like you can go check out the VHS.

• 1:09:52Griffin Newman?

  That's like not a thing that most people are gonna pick up on. Can I just read my full 1941 laugh list?

• 1:09:57David Sims?

  Okay, go ahead.

• 1:09:57Speaker 05

  I love it.

• 1:09:58Griffin Newman?

  One, reveal of Japanese soldiers disguised as Xmas trees.

• 1:10:01David Sims?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:10:02Speaker 05

  Which is, which is cut, it's cut in the, in the version I saw.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  That's not the theatrical bit.

• 1:10:06David Sims?

  That's, that's, uh, yeah, that's.

• 1:10:07Griffin Newman?

  That's an extended cut. Okay, and then I found out in watching this making of, that's a direct lift from a Marx Brothers movie. That he was like, I want to do the Christmas tree bit. Number two, I wrote almost everything Slim Pickens does.

• 1:10:20David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:20Griffin Newman?

  I think this is the most wholly successful performance, but also like sub-subplot.

• 1:10:26David Sims?

  He's just, Slim Pickens, that guy is fucking funny.

• 1:10:29Griffin Newman?

  But to Mitch's point, there's kind of like a clearer comedic game in his little section that makes sense. We'll circle back to this. Number three, I did put down Belushi with the Coke bottle. Got, got an out loud ha for me. Number four, Eddie Deezen revealing the ventriloquist dummy.

• 1:10:46Speaker 05

  Insane. By the way-

• 1:10:47Griffin Newman?

  It is the way it's revealed-

• 1:10:48David Sims?

  It's really weird.

• 1:10:49Griffin Newman?

  And we'll get to it.

• 1:10:50Speaker 05

  I, I, I have a question for you guys.

• 1:10:53Griffin Newman?

  Please.

• 1:10:53Speaker 05

  Because you said he almost did this movie magic and then I was like, was this a nod to that movie?

• 1:10:58Griffin Newman?

  Had to be.

• 1:10:58David Sims?

  It must be, right.

• 1:10:59Griffin Newman?

  Oh, wow. Cause the other thing is, they wrote the script where the two guys in the carousel were supposed to be, uh-

• 1:11:08Speaker 05

  Abbott and Costello?

• 1:11:09Griffin Newman?

  Art Carney, Art Carney and Jackie Gleason.

• 1:11:11Speaker 05

  Oh, that's who it was. The honeymoon agent.

• 1:11:13David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:11:13Griffin Newman?

  And they even wrote it as like, one guy's a mailman and the other guys are like, they wrote it in the script that way. Then they have Spielberg on board. They're like, we can get anyone they want. They reach out to Jackie Gleason's agent. And they relay back, Jackie Gleason refuses to ever work with Art Carney again.

• 1:11:29David Sims?

  Oh, jam. Okay. Right. Well, Jackie Gleason was a, yeah, bit of a tough customer.

• 1:11:33Griffin Newman?

  And I Want to Hold Your Hand had come out at this point and Spielberg was like, where did you find this fucking Eddie Deezen guy?

• 1:11:39David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:11:39Griffin Newman?

  Rewrite it and make it Deezen and an old guy. So it's Deezen and the mayor from Jaws. But, but like, I don't think he would have given Art Carney a ventriloquist dummy. I think you're dead on that that was like a weird, him making jokes about movies he didn't direct.

• 1:11:54David Sims?

  But again, it just kind of feels like, you know, it's just, well, let's throw more props at this and more explosions and more, yeah.

• 1:12:01Griffin Newman?

  I'm not gonna laugh at it. The physicality at the reveal of you see a blanket next to him and it slowly rises.

• 1:12:08David Sims?

  It's pretty funny.

• 1:12:09Griffin Newman?

  And then the head lifts up. I gave a half chuckle at Belushi as old man eating spaghetti. The weird cutaway to Belushi's cameo as a second non-speaking character.

• 1:12:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:12:19Griffin Newman?

  I gave a half chuckle to water coming out of the dummy's nose at the end of the film.

• 1:12:23Speaker 05

  That's pretty good. That was good.

• 1:12:24David Sims?

  Yeah, that's pretty funny.

• 1:12:25Griffin Newman?

  And then two full laughs at the dummy getting its own credit in the end credits.

• 1:12:29David Sims?

  Yeah, that was good.

• 1:12:30Griffin Newman?

  And the explosions during the credits, which are the most I laughed in the entire movie.

• 1:12:35David Sims?

  Joe Flaherty getting the whiff in the credits of all these people. And Joe Flaherty's good, to be clear. He kind of crushes his scene.

• 1:12:42Speaker 05

  He's great.

• 1:12:42Griffin Newman?

  But let's also say, in terms of like this movie-

• 1:12:45David Sims?

  R I P Joe Flaherty. Recently-

• 1:12:46Griffin Newman?

  Recently passed.

• 1:12:47David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:47Griffin Newman?

  The unfunny in a way that almost defies logic.

• 1:12:50David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:50Griffin Newman?

  This is a movie that has like four cast members from Stripes, three cast members from Laverne and Sher- Two S U T V people, two S and L people. Like it is pulling from all the groups of the peaks of comedy, both like commercial and in like snob circles at the time. On top of like 10 dramatic film legends, including Toshiro Mafune?

• 1:13:13David Sims?

  And his only like movie that he spoke English in or whatever. Yes.

• 1:13:17Griffin Newman?

  Every other American film he made, he was dubbed over by Paul Fries.

• 1:13:22David Sims?

  Cool.

• 1:13:22Griffin Newman?

  Who I believe is the ghost host from, or the narrator from The Haunted Mansion Ride.

• 1:13:27David Sims?

  Right. Victor Fries, of course, was Batman's enemy. Fell in a heap of ice cubes. Right.

• 1:13:33Griffin Newman?

  He's sort of a tragic figure because his wife Nora Fries.

• 1:13:36Speaker 05

  Wait, they dubbed over him?

• 1:13:37David Sims?

  Over Mr. Fries? Yes, they did.

• 1:13:39Griffin Newman?

  They would dub over Toshiro Mafune in every other American film he did.

• 1:13:43David Sims?

  His English dialogue. Yes.

• 1:13:45Griffin Newman?

  This is the only film, American studio film in which he actually speaks.

• 1:13:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:13:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:50Speaker 05

  I, I heard that he like yelled at all the like extras off, he like got them in line for the movies. The I M D B, I M D B trivia says that he like got all the extras in line and was like, that's not how soldiers act and like got them acting like soldiers.

• 1:14:06David Sims?

  That's cool. God, if he yelled at me, I would melt into water.

• 1:14:10Griffin Newman?

  By the end of filming, those men would have died for him.

• 1:14:13David Sims?

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  But like now, now my, my wife walked out because she didn't watch any of the movie, but she came outside. When I was watching it once and, and she, uh, uh, you know, she came to the living area during the credits. And this is when she was packing her bags. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  Just signed a new lease. Um, we're very happy for her. Uh, they, so, so like every like third card or whatever, there's just like a random explosion that comes out. And she watches it and she does laugh at it because she's like, why the fuck are things exploding during the credits? But it's kind of a microcosm for the movie as a whole. Right? You're just watching it. It's like, why are there inexplicable explosions every like, you know, like, like every like four seconds? Like what is going on exactly?

• 1:14:53Speaker 05

  I have, I have, I have one thought on the credits as well. Um, first of all, there's two thoughts here. One, the dummy is sentient because it notices things before the guy from Critters notices things. I forgot his name already.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  Eddie Deason?

• 1:15:07Speaker 05

  Eddie Deason.

• 1:15:07David Sims?

  Eddie Deason.

• 1:15:08Speaker 05

  Who's didn't have as big of a career as I thought either. I was surprised by it.

• 1:15:11Speaker 02

  He was in a lot of stuff in the eighties.

• 1:15:13David Sims?

  Specific career. Very specific.

• 1:15:15Griffin Newman?

  We covered him when we were doing the Zemeckis movies, but he was this discovery and they were like, he's just like this and no one else is like this. And you put him on screen and he goes. And then he started getting bigger opportunities and people were like, oh, he can't memorize dialogue. He can't take direction. He can't hit marks. You can sort of just let him like spin out.

• 1:15:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:15:37Griffin Newman?

  But it was hard for people to figure out how to put him in any other context.

• 1:15:40Speaker 05

  I love watching him spin out. He is very, when I first heard his voice, I was like, what is this character? And then I was like, oh my God, it's just, it's Eddie D, it's the guy from Critters, Eddie Deason.

• 1:15:48Griffin Newman?

  He famously was also the voice of Mandark on Dexter's Laboratory.

• 1:15:53Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Oh, right.

• 1:15:55David Sims?

  It's Dexter's enemy.

• 1:15:56Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:15:56David Sims?

  His rival, the sort of grimes to Dexter's.

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  Correct. And he's probably old enough where his entire childhood like was pre Deez Nuts. So he avoided that, right?

• 1:16:05Speaker 05

  That's a great point. That is, that's a really good point. Yeah.

• 1:16:08Griffin Newman?

  Uh, he is, he is very active on Facebook and he is often posting about how.

• 1:16:12David Sims?

  Never a good sign.

• 1:16:13Griffin Newman?

  He is often posting, get ready.

• 1:16:16David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:17Griffin Newman?

  He's often posting about how he's been banned from local LA diners because the waitresses got uncomfortable by his compliments.

• 1:16:23Speaker 05

  Oh, boy.

• 1:16:24Griffin Newman?

  He's one of these.

• 1:16:25Speaker 05

  With the dummy?

• 1:16:26Griffin Newman?

  You're not allowed to tell a lady to smile anymore.

• 1:16:30Speaker 05

  I'm hoping the dummy is the one doing, which by the way, the dummy is credited in the, in the end credits, the dummy.

• 1:16:36Griffin Newman?

  Got a full laugh.

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  Good gag. That is one of his laugh lines.

• 1:16:39Speaker 05

  Oh, oh, oh, that's what was on your, sorry about that. Yeah.

• 1:16:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but just be clear, two of the laugh lines were things that happened during the credits.

• 1:16:48David Sims?

  Right, which you have to, especially if the director's commentary is two and a half hours.

• 1:16:52Griffin Newman?

  Two and a half.

• 1:16:53David Sims?

  Like later. I'm gonna read something from the dossier that I do think underlines what we're saying, which is Zemeckis and Gale are like, "Look, our script was cynical. It was like a dark movie, like a dark comedy." And then Steve comes in and, you know, his tone is very different and it becomes more of a screwball comedy. And Spielberg's like, "Yeah, I was just trying to max out visual gags. My role models were Hells A-Poppin' with Red Skeleton, Preston Sturgis screwball comedies." You know, basically kind of like, there shouldn't be, like, every, something should be happening every second, right? Like, that's sort of, to me, that's, if you think that of a Preston Sturgis movie, you're reading it wrong. But like, obviously Preston Sturgis movies, the dialogue is very fast, there's lots of jokes, I get that.

• 1:17:36Griffin Newman?

  But they are so intricately set up that the big laughs come from like, "Oh my god, you've put all the pieces in place perfectly and for 15 minutes it's been leading to this very clear, understandable, sort of like, conflict or whatever it is." I mean, here are a couple of things he said in this retrospective.

• 1:17:52David Sims?

  But Looney Tunes becomes the thing he's referencing.

• 1:17:55Griffin Newman?

  He brings Chuck Jones in during development and says, "Chuck, I want you to come up with the wildest visual gags you can." And like Chuck Jones comes up with a gag that's sort of like, an explosion of the moment where Tim Matheson drops the bomb and it's rolling towards the speech, where the bomb is sentient and it's like rolling through the town on Main Street and driving everyone crazy. And it's like, five minutes of the bomb rolling everywhere in town. And Spielberg was like, "I don't know how to achieve this." And he was like, "It was a great sequence and it would have been great in animation, but I couldn't even begin to figure out how to film it."

• 1:18:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:30Griffin Newman?

  And then he says, and this interview is from maybe the early 90s or the late 80s, he goes, "You know, today you probably could figure out a way to do it with CGI, computer-generated imagery."

• 1:18:40David Sims?

  Right, it's a new concept, right.

• 1:18:42Griffin Newman?

  What a time capsule that he was like, "Oh, I used insider lingo."

• 1:18:45David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:18:45Griffin Newman?

  The other thing he said was, he was like, "At the time, people complained that the movie was too loud and too chaotic and cacophonous. And I look at it now and I'm like, it's no different than playing Doom."

• 1:18:56David Sims?

  Oh, wow. Spielberg the gamer.

• 1:18:59Griffin Newman?

  And then he went like-

• 1:19:00David Sims?

  Not true. Doom is very like, kind of, quiet and freaky.

• 1:19:03Griffin Newman?

  Quotidian.

• 1:19:03David Sims?

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:19:05Griffin Newman?

  Squire. Uh, but no, but he was like, "Yeah, I don't think the movie is that different from one of the CD-ROM games that kids would play."

• 1:19:14Speaker 05

  Dear God. Well, he was right about, the current Doom is very similar, but he didn't have a pre-copy of Doom 2016 or whatever.

• 1:19:22Griffin Newman?

  No, no, he's talking about the old shareware Doom.

• 1:19:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, it's, yeah, there's, I mean, you're like, whatever, there's some-

• 1:19:28David Sims?

  There's demons.

• 1:19:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's demons, you know, there's, there's, but it's like, there are moments of just walking down corridors, you know?

• 1:19:34Griffin Newman?

  Right, Doom is like skin and marring. Like, the first Doom is like liminal horror.

• 1:19:39Speaker 05

  Yes. Much better paced. There, there's moments of quiet and it's, it is, it feels much better than that. I-

• 1:19:45Griffin Newman?

  Right, which this movie has no moments of quiet.

• 1:19:47Speaker 02

  There's also a BFG in Doom, but it has its-

• 1:19:49David Sims?

  Yes, there's the big, the big F gun, yes. BFJ. Is Quake, is Quake just like, kind of, goth Doom? Is that all Quake really did to Doom?

• 1:20:01Griffin Newman?

  Huge question.

• 1:20:02Speaker 02

  I guess, I mean, it's got some more Lovecraft in it, too.

• 1:20:05David Sims?

  Yeah, kind of like a little more-

• 1:20:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's, um, but yeah, it's, it's kind of, I mean, the, the big Quake thing was a, was a fully 3D engine. It was like this kind of two and a half D thing they were doing with, with Doom and Wolfenstein.

• 1:20:17David Sims?

  Actually, right, you're strafing and stuff. That's the difference, okay. You still have Quake. Anyway, um, this is the most interesting thing Spielberg says.

• 1:20:25Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:20:26David Sims?

  I, so, he says, "I sort of saw the movie 1941 as a big Hollywood musical, like an old-fashioned Golden Age musical, and I had talked with John Williams about doing like, eight big, big band numbers, like, big, big numbers, and the Zoo, uh, you know, the jitterbug contest is kind of the only thing that remains of that concept." And he's like, "I kind of regret not making it just a big musical."

• 1:20:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:49David Sims?

  Now, that's one of those things I hear where I'm like, "That is a good idea."

• 1:20:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:52David Sims?

  But- You're insane.

• 1:20:54Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:20:54David Sims?

  Like, if that's your idea, then that's a different movie and you should make that movie.

• 1:20:58Griffin Newman?

  Start from square one.

• 1:20:59David Sims?

  Start from square one, exactly.

• 1:21:00Griffin Newman?

  Now, he frames it as...

• 1:21:01David Sims?

  It really just sounds like they're like, oh, could we have explosions and musical sequences? And like boobs and yeah, money and you know, it's just they're throwing everything in there.

• 1:21:09Griffin Newman?

  He frames it in this interview as, I didn't have the courage of my convictions at that time to follow through on that, right? And then he's like, you know, I had this anything goes principle and basically at the beginning of Temple of Doom, I do the type of musical number I wanted to do in 1941. There is one other movie Spielberg has made that was originally developed, or at least temporarily developed as a musical, and then he welched on it for the same reasons. Where he's like, I got scared, I didn't know if I could tackle it, I took all the songs out.

• 1:21:39David Sims?

  Amistad?

• 1:21:40Griffin Newman?

  Do you know what movie that is? Correct. No, do you know what it is, David?

• 1:21:44David Sims?

  I feel like I do and I'm gonna be annoyed when I... I'm gonna guess.

• 1:21:49Griffin Newman?

  It is, spoilers, the other movie I put on the same tier as this in Spielberg's homography, correct. Correct. Oh, that makes sense. Which is also left with one song where the daughter sings on the ship.

• 1:21:59David Sims?

  Which is a nice sequence.

• 1:22:00Griffin Newman?

  But I believe five songs were written for that movie.

• 1:22:03David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:04Griffin Newman?

  And he just similarly said, I just, I got freaked out by doing it. And you hear this thing across his career that he always wanted to make a musical. And I do think it's fascinating that when he finally did it, he was like, if I start with West Side Story...

• 1:22:17David Sims?

  Right, I'll just make one of the most famous musicals of all time and then I'll

• 1:22:21Griffin Newman?

  This is kind of proven.

• 1:22:22David Sims?

  I'll just fucking nail it. I'll just like do all the other stuff real good.

• 1:22:24Griffin Newman?

  But he kept toying with trying to make his own original musical and then being like, I don't know, I don't know if I can pull it off.

• 1:22:30David Sims?

  Yeah, that's interesting.

• 1:22:31Griffin Newman?

  Yo, yo, yo, like his West Side Story? I'm a big fan.

• 1:22:35David Sims?

  I think it is one of the most like jaw dropping incredible movies ever made and Griffin thought it was okay.

• 1:22:40Griffin Newman?

  I like it quite a bit, which gets framed as me hating it.

• 1:22:43David Sims?

  I was setting you up for this.

• 1:22:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I think some of it is extraordinary. I think Ansel Elgort is kind of the Achilles heel of the movie, which feeds into a bigger Spielberg failing to identify good young leading men thing that hits the last 10, 15 years of his career.

• 1:22:57David Sims?

  What's he been up to?

• 1:22:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, what's he been up to? Where'd he go?

• 1:22:59David Sims?

  Where'd he go?

• 1:22:59Griffin Newman?

  He hiding. Hey, Ansel! Where's the boy at? Ansel, come on!

• 1:23:03Speaker 02

  Mitch, you like the West, uh, this Spielberg West Side Story?

• 1:23:06Speaker 05

  I like, I like it quite a bit. I, like, uh, I'm probably in between, uh, uh, Griffin Sims, I would say is probably where I lean on it. I'll say this.

• 1:23:14Griffin Newman?

  Great place to be.

• 1:23:15Speaker 05

  Cause, cause this made me think of it.

• 1:23:17Griffin Newman?

  It's empty right now. There's no one here.

• 1:23:19Speaker 05

  I'd fit in perfect. I'd fit in perfectly. A little puzzle piece. Um, I, I-

• 1:23:22Griffin Newman?

  Jump through the screen.

• 1:23:23Speaker 05

  I, um, the, my question to you, and this is a kind of a hot take, that the dance sequence in this, the punch fight dance sequence, if that came out this, this decade, would it be amongst the, one of the best dance sequences in the last 10 years?

• 1:23:39Griffin Newman?

  This is the fucking thing with Spielberg. You're like, I feel like we talk about this. We use this as like a gauge or descriptor a lot. But the types of movies where like, if you were at a bar and this was playing on TV or projected on the wall behind you with the sound off, and you're catching glimpses of it, you're like, does this rule? Right. Do I need to watch this? And the second you actually lock in and watch it sound on as a movie, you're like, this is a mess. But if you just looked over your shoulder while you were drinking and saw that staging for 15 seconds, you'd be like, oh, so this is one of his masterpieces.

• 1:24:13Speaker 02

  It's, it, it looks rad. And again, you know, I, I don't want to belabor Red One, but if, if you took the Krampus set piece in Red One, the slap fight. If you did Krampel Schlacht, Krampus Schlacht, and you, you remove that and instead substituted this jitterbug dance contest. Like, it'd be like, hey, you know what? At least Red One has blank. At least that sequence is cool. Uh, so yeah, I, I, I think you're right. But, but I did feel very like, it does feel like a proto-West Side Story. Like, like even the scoring there, the, the John Williams kind of simulacrum of like a Louis Prima sort of a big band number, is kind of Leonard Bernstein-y. It, it is kind of like, like it's, it's, I, I don't know, that, that, that's one, that's one of the few times in the movie where I feel like everything just kind of comes together.

• 1:24:52Speaker 05

  Hot take, better than any dance sequence in, in La La Land, for instance.

• 1:24:58David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:24:59Speaker 05

  I mean, I don't know how hot of a take that is.

• 1:25:00Speaker 02

  No, I mean, like, you know, that's, that's, I don't, I don't feel like that's a film that's like, it's choreography is mind blowing.

• 1:25:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:25:05Speaker 02

  It's got some cool shit.

• 1:25:06David Sims?

  But that's fine, but also La La Land is-

• 1:25:08Griffin Newman?

  I think that is the failing of almost all modern movie musicals.

• 1:25:10David Sims?

  Yeah, I think La La Land's even right. I mean, that's why Better Man, uh, which is out in theaters right now.

• 1:25:16Griffin Newman?

  Considering going to see it tonight.

• 1:25:17David Sims?

  Probably, probably gone by the time-

• 1:25:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I was gonna say. It might be gone by the time we finish recording.

• 1:25:22David Sims?

  Better Man-

• 1:25:23Griffin Newman?

  Even though it came out three days ago.

• 1:25:24David Sims?

  Exactly, is really trying to solve those problems of like, you know, it's like, how do I shoot a musical sequence in a movie? Do I just have a wide so you can see all the dancing and see the sort of choreography all together? That's boring, though. It's static. Or do I cut into the action a bunch and now I'm like, you know, messing up the rhythm of the songs?

• 1:25:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:43David Sims?

  And of the, you know, of everything. And, uh-

• 1:25:45Speaker 05

  The CGI goo player though never, doesn't help the Better Man.

• 1:25:48Griffin Newman?

  No, not at all.

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  You saw Better Man. I have not seen Better Man.

• 1:25:51Speaker 05

  I saw that TIFF and I, uh, I don't hate Better Man, weirdly. It's a very confusing movie, but I do think that this, uh, this dance sequence feels so much more authentic and real than almost anything I've seen.

• 1:26:04David Sims?

  It's a huge set, it's a huge crowd, yeah.

• 1:26:06Griffin Newman?

  I, I think you're spot on and like, it's the thing I always complain about is I see modern movie musicals and I either feel like the choreography was sort of an afterthought. It was the last piece of the puzzle and the one they didn't devote enough time and practice and thought to. Or the dance has been worked out and-

• 1:26:22David Sims?

  And we can't see it.

• 1:26:23Griffin Newman?

  There is not confidence in the way it is shot and cut.

• 1:26:26David Sims?

  We're just not getting to see it.

• 1:26:27Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:26:28David Sims?

  You know, and in its sort of full form.

• 1:26:30Griffin Newman?

  And it feels like it's always either or and it's part of what like, makes you wish that Spielberg had made five musicals in his career. Where you're like, the way he treats action and the basic staging and blocking of like dialogue scenes shows such an understanding of how you should approach a musical and you'll get those moments that are static.

• 1:26:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:26:49Griffin Newman?

  But also to your point Mitch, there is the moment in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull where like, the, the Russian spies or whatever are like circling them and he's at the diner with Mutt Williams. And Mutt like starts a fake fight between-

• 1:27:04Speaker 05

  R.I.P. Mutt.

• 1:27:05Griffin Newman?

  Like the preppy college guys, R.I.P. Mutt, a, a true hero.

• 1:27:08David Sims?

  Not canonically dead.

• 1:27:09Griffin Newman?

  And a very-

• 1:27:10David Sims?

  I know, I know.

• 1:27:12Griffin Newman?

  He had the courage that John Wayne lacked.

• 1:27:14David Sims?

  Yeah, John Wayne died, yellow bellied coward.

• 1:27:17Griffin Newman?

  But do you know the moment I'm talking about where Mut basically like- Vaguely, sure, yeah, starts the fight at the diner. He starts a fight between like the preppies and the bikers so that there's a distraction, they can break out. And I'm like, that's like a version of Spielberg almost trying to do the same thing he does in The Zoot Suit sequence visually, that he is able to contain within like 25 seconds, where you're like, there is an economy and a cleanness to that. He's the best at that stuff, yeah. Whereas this is the one time, I feel like, almost in his entire career, where he's not doing the incredible Spielberg math of, how do I simplify this sequence as much as possible? His greatest skill set is to like, show up on the day and go like, how do we make this the fewest number of shots? How do we like, find the way to like,

• 1:27:59Griffin Newman?

  convey this information as quickly and cleanly as possible, and with a little bit of charm and wit?

• 1:28:08Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:28:08David Sims?

  Yeah?

• 1:28:09Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary, Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd? It is an iconic video. Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16mm film discovered in a safe, changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery, told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:28:50David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film, everyone knows, of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:29:01Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives, that some historians have called, the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:29:10David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like, grainy, you know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:29:20Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:29:34David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:29:36Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:29:39David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:29:55Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:30:11Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:30:11David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:30:11Griffin Newman?

  Uh, uh, who are you wearing?

• 1:30:14David Sims?

  Uh, who am I wearing?

• 1:30:15Griffin Newman?

  I'm doing like an impression of a red carpet correspondent, asking who you're wearing right now.

• 1:30:18David Sims?

  Well, I am wearing Quince.

• 1:30:22Griffin Newman?

  Well, well, well, what a Quince, Quincy dense.

• 1:30:26David Sims?

  It's a Mongolian cashmere zip sweater.

• 1:30:30Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:30:31David Sims?

  It's a sort of a brown. Would you agree?

• 1:30:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's like, maybe like a, what would you, a chocolate?

• 1:30:36David Sims?

  Sure. I have been seated next to people wearing this item of clothing and they have brushed against me, not to brag, and gone like, so soft.

• 1:30:43Griffin Newman?

  Oh, a soft boy. But listen, the best pieces in your closet are the ones that you can count on, whether you're heading to work, going out, or keeping things casual. And this time of year, Quince makes finding something great for everyone else just as easy. This holiday season, it's where I'm shopping for myself and everyone on my list.

• 1:31:00David Sims?

  Quince does rock. It's got high-quality staples, made with these premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere.

• 1:31:07Griffin Newman?

  14 karat gold?

• 1:31:10David Sims?

  Italian leather.

• 1:31:11Griffin Newman?

  Mama mia.

• 1:31:12David Sims?

  All timeless, versatile pieces that feel special to unwrap and become everyday favorites long after the holidays. These cashmere sweaters, like the one I'm wearing, start at just $60. Lineup doesn't stop there. You've got premium down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories, everything your loved ones need to stay warm and look good together all season long.

• 1:31:32Griffin Newman?

  And everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you can give luxury quality pieces without the luxury price tag.

• 1:31:45David Sims?

  So yeah, obviously I'm wearing Quince sweater right now. I've got Quince bedding at home. Ooh, they've got Christmas stockings.

• 1:31:52Griffin Newman?

  Oh, well, well, well.

• 1:31:53David Sims?

  They got tree skirts. They got garlands if you want to go Christmas mode.

• 1:31:57Griffin Newman?

  Your tree deserves to be dressed in Quince as well. And when it comes to gifting, Quince has a lot more than clothing. Think fine jewelry, leather bags, the aforementioned hotel quality bedding, chef-grade cookware, and five-star luggage. Basically, plenty of ways to find something special for everyone on your list. If you want to give the gift of quality this holiday season, download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's a year. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. Ding dong. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Blank Check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:32:44David Sims?

  Hello, I'm Chris Richards, general manager at Saffron Volkswagen-Richsman. I'm here to announce an exciting new program that I want you to listen to. Here's my friend Happy.

• 1:32:53Speaker 06

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• 1:33:17Speaker 02

  I will say, so there's the, the, and I don't know how sequential we're going here, but the, the-

• 1:33:21David Sims?

  I don't think we can because I don't remember the sequence. Like, it's too boring.

• 1:33:26Speaker 02

  It's not a coherent sequence of events. It's just like a bunch of shit that happens.

• 1:33:29David Sims?

  There's big sequences, right? But they don't really knock on to each other that importantly, anyway.

• 1:33:33Speaker 02

  So Belushi, so Belushi going into the city and, you know, like their, his, his plane is pursuing the other plane with, you know, the, the horny airplane lady and the guy who's trying to seduce her.

• 1:33:45David Sims?

  Which, God bless her.

• 1:33:46Speaker 02

  God bless her.

• 1:33:47David Sims?

  Uh, Tim Matheson.

• 1:33:48Speaker 02

  Tim Matheson.

• 1:33:49David Sims?

  Right, the straight arrow.

• 1:33:51Speaker 05

  As horny as the jaws-

• 1:33:51Speaker 02

  Too fucking animal house actors. Oh, you're right.

• 1:33:54David Sims?

  As horny as the jaws opening is, I wanted the movie to be more horny. So I was happy with the horny plane stuff.

• 1:33:59Speaker 02

  That, that is fun. So, so they're, they're like, that whole-

• 1:34:02David Sims?

  The titane.

• 1:34:05Speaker 02

  It's kind of a stand.

• 1:34:06Speaker 05

  The plane Titanic.

• 1:34:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, so there, uh, uh, uh, yeah, the, the birthing sequence at the end is really unsettling.

• 1:34:16Speaker 02

  Um, after he, after she pretends to be a guy's dead son for an hour.

• 1:34:24Speaker 02

  This movie's wild, man. Anyway, so the, there's the, there's, there's the two, uh, there's like the dogfight, right? The plane pursuing the other plane, uh, through the city and like his sense of geography, like he uses the Roosevelt Hotel, uh, like, um, sign is like kind of a landmark and like, there's like four consecutive shots where you're seeing the Roosevelt Hotel. I think that's whatever the sign is, um, like, like from four different angles, just so you can get a sense of like where all the anti-aircraft batteries and where all the civilians on the ground and where the planes are in relation to each other. And it's just like, this guy is just the fucking best at this. Like this is so, he, he makes this, he, he, this, this, uh, the 3D, um, uh, uh, environment is represented in a 2D plane in a way that makes complete visual sense to anyone who's watching it. So you have, yeah, you do have stuff like that

• 1:35:09Speaker 02

  where she's like, again, this is just like really exceptional craft.

• 1:35:12Speaker 05

  Which by the way, there is a, a moment in that where I got annoyed where they're like, "We're gonna take Hollywood to Highland." And I was like, "You're at Hollywood in Highland." Well, you remember when the tank guy is yelling that?

• 1:35:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:35:22Speaker 05

  It fucking annoyed me. The geography.

• 1:35:23Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 1:35:24Speaker 05

  Sorry.

• 1:35:25Griffin Newman?

  To the point of what Sims just said, no, no, um, what's crazy is that like he can't stop himself from doing that shit from like the constant like geographical centering, like giving the audience the visual information to understand the relationship between images. Story wise, he is almost pointedly doing the opposite. Like you saying it's hard to recount this movie in order, it feels like there is very little relationship between scenes in this movie.

• 1:35:52Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:35:53Griffin Newman?

  And like, I understand part of it is that it's doing this kind of tapestry, like 10 different plot thread stuff.

• 1:35:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:35:59Griffin Newman?

  But it's like actually hard to keep track of any level of cause and effect in this movie.

• 1:36:03Speaker 05

  Hundred percent.

• 1:36:04Griffin Newman?

  And part of it is, I just realizing this as we were saying it, like, there are like six different fundamental misunderstandings in this movie.

• 1:36:12Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:36:13Griffin Newman?

  Like unlike something. Like, a lot of these sort of like satirical war movies, right? Where you're like, the Russians are coming. There's like one thing of like a Russian shows up in town and they think it's an invasion. You know, like Doctor Strangelove, one wrong call is made, kind of shit. This movie just keeps stacking up misunderstandings.

• 1:36:34David Sims?

  And they don't really, I mean, some interact and some don't.

• 1:36:37Griffin Newman?

  But a lot of them don't, right? Exactly. So you're like-

• 1:36:39David Sims?

  Like the submarine thing kind of is a self-contained story.

• 1:36:42Griffin Newman?

  And it sort of has nothing to do with Belushi, who's just on his shit.

• 1:36:46David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:36:46Griffin Newman?

  But thinks he's being attacked because Tim Matheson is trying to get laid because Nancy Allen only wants to fuck inside a plane.

• 1:36:54David Sims?

  Right. And then there's like the, um, the Warren Oates character who's kind of like the sterling hating character for Doctor Strangelove.

• 1:37:00Griffin Newman?

  Right, loves violence.

• 1:37:01David Sims?

  But we barely see him.

• 1:37:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:37:03David Sims?

  And he's like only spoken of for a while. And then when he shows up, it's kind of like an hour into the movie and you don't care.

• 1:37:09Griffin Newman?

  Right. And you're like, they're right. Everyone's right that the Japanese do want to attack California, but also the Japanese have no understanding of geography. So you have this whole misunderstanding based on where they are.

• 1:37:21David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:21Griffin Newman?

  So it's like everyone reacting to a threat that is real, that they're misunderstanding, but also the people who are the threat are fucking up their threat.

• 1:37:28David Sims?

  The threat is also not real, but of course it is real in that World War II is real.

• 1:37:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes, right.

• 1:37:34David Sims?

  And will be a thing, just not here.

• 1:37:37Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:37:38Speaker 05

  This ties into the Treat Williams character. I didn't know if he was a good guy. I was like, is he gonna end up with a girl at the end of the movie? And then-

• 1:37:48David Sims?

  He's an asshole.

• 1:37:49Speaker 05

  He's, he's somewhere between Bluto and the Hillside Strangler. He's like, he's either, he's like either like a fun villain or the worst man in the world. He's like trying to grab this-

• 1:38:00David Sims?

  No, he's kind of-

• 1:38:01Speaker 05

  He sucks.

• 1:38:02David Sims?

  Yeah. He's kind of, uh, right. Just a straight up sort of sociopath bully. Like, I mean, Treat Williams is, is fine at that, but you're kind of like, what's this character doing here?

• 1:38:11Griffin Newman?

  Bob Gale was saying that one of their big ideas they had when they were like, Spielberg's saying like, keep on coming up with more, more and more. And they were like, you know, it's a funny setup. A guy desperate to lose his virginity in the middle of warfare.

• 1:38:25David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:38:25Griffin Newman?

  And I was like, okay, and they're like, so we had this whole scene written where they're like hiding out under tanks trying to fuck because the guy's so worried he's gonna die before he loses his virginity.

• 1:38:35David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:36Griffin Newman?

  And then as he's explaining it, I realize he's talking about the Treat Williams character.

• 1:38:41David Sims?

  Oh my god, wow.

• 1:38:42Griffin Newman?

  And in the movie, there's the reveal of the tank moving and her running away in terror because he's been trying to sexually assault her.

• 1:38:50David Sims?

  Yeah, that's insane.

• 1:38:51Griffin Newman?

  And it's not just that he's been like a pushy creep the whole movie. That moment is like, he has grabbed her and pulled her under a tank.

• 1:38:57David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:38:57Griffin Newman?

  And she is like running away and pulling her skirt back up. And I'm like, how did this go from this being a character you're kind of rooting for to get laid?

• 1:39:06Speaker 02

  Well, I will say that's the thing.

• 1:39:07Griffin Newman?

  As you're saying it, like, him being like a rapier Blutet.

• 1:39:10David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:39:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes, 100%.

• 1:39:12Speaker 02

  But my understanding is, and I didn't watch the extended cut, my understanding of the extended cut, there is a scene where he fucks a pie, right?

• 1:39:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, there's also a big like glory hole scene where they're like spying on girls in the shower.

• 1:39:25David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:25Griffin Newman?

  And then a woman comes out and yanks his dick.

• 1:39:27David Sims?

  And then a dog jizzes into a, what is it?

• 1:39:30Griffin Newman?

  A Claire.

• 1:39:30David Sims?

  In a Claire, in Van Wilder.

• 1:39:32Griffin Newman?

  They eat dog cum and Claire.

• 1:39:34David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:39:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. There's also a scene where, um, where Treat Williams is looking for hair gel.

• 1:39:42David Sims?

  Oh, interesting. And he finds it, right? On the ear of a friend.

• 1:39:46Griffin Newman?

  It's a fact. It is. Belushi's cum.

• 1:39:49David Sims?

  It's just one of those things where America was like, there's this great sequence with the hair gel. Everyone loves it. And I'm like, so what's the sequence? It's like, ah, he jerks off and comes on his ear and it sticks there. And I'm like, it doesn't do that. That's not a thing that happens.

• 1:40:00Griffin Newman?

  It is so funny.

• 1:40:01David Sims?

  That's never happened to anyone in the history of society.

• 1:40:04Griffin Newman?

  They talk about the Farrelly Brothers.

• 1:40:06David Sims?

  Come isn't glue.

• 1:40:07Griffin Newman?

  The Academy Award winning Farrelly Brothers?

• 1:40:09David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:10Griffin Newman?

  Talk about.

• 1:40:10David Sims?

  Well, just one of them.

• 1:40:12Griffin Newman?

  Did they not, did Bobby not have any credit? That's insane.

• 1:40:16David Sims?

  Poor Bobby.

• 1:40:18Griffin Newman?

  They talk about how when they were filming that on the day, Stiller was spiraling over the logic.

• 1:40:23David Sims?

  This doesn't make any fucking sense. Why would it, why would it go all the way like just vertically into my ear?

• 1:40:30Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, that's not how like cum holds. It looks wrong. Like, what are you talking about? And there's the moment earlier where he like comes, she knocks on the door and he's like, oh, hold on. And it's like, he's looking for where the cum went so he could clean it up.

• 1:40:43David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:40:43Griffin Newman?

  And in that moment, he turns 360 degrees and you see there's nothing on his ear. And they were like, Stiller was freaking out over this. And we were just like, Ben, you gotta trust us. It's funny. And I feel like there's so many stories about Stiller doing something like that. And it being like, he's freaking out over nothing.

• 1:41:00David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:41:01Griffin Newman?

  He's overthinking it.

• 1:41:02David Sims?

  But this one, I'm kind of with them, yeah.

• 1:41:03Griffin Newman?

  He was right. And yet, results were undeniable.

• 1:41:07David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:07Griffin Newman?

  She put that fucking cum in her hair and that movie made $200 million. Because everyone at every office was like, you gotta see what this fucking hair gel is.

• 1:41:17Speaker 05

  I remember when my mom and dad were just laughing so much at that moment. I saw it with my mom and dad and sister and they were just going nuts. And I was like, that's fucking gnarly. Like, like.

• 1:41:24Griffin Newman?

  That was, the poster for the movie was her in a red dress and like a Marilyn Monroe seven year itch pose.

• 1:41:32David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:32Griffin Newman?

  With the hair flipped up. And every article and review I remember about that movie is like, you're not gonna believe what happens in the hair gel scene. You have to see it for yourself.

• 1:41:42Speaker 05

  By the way, another, another issue, Treat Williams is not a virgin. He, there's, is it bad?

• 1:41:46Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:41:46Speaker 05

  He's not a virgin at all. Rest in peace, Treat. But like, he's like.

• 1:41:49Griffin Newman?

  He's a Chad.

• 1:41:50Speaker 05

  He's a Chad.

• 1:41:51David Sims?

  He doesn't read as, I mean, I guess you could buy it as like, oh, it's all, you know, it's all show with him and he's think, actually, right, like covering up for, but it doesn't make any sense in this movie.

• 1:42:00Griffin Newman?

  Weird game of telephone of like this thing getting like so far away from the original idea.

• 1:42:05David Sims?

  Have you guys seen Used Cars, the Zemeckis movie that he made shortly after this with Kurt Russell?

• 1:42:11Speaker 05

  I've never seen Used Cars. I've never seen it, but I think it is maybe playing at the, at the Vista right now.

• 1:42:16David Sims?

  It's worth seeing. It's far, far better than this movie.

• 1:42:18Griffin Newman?

  It is incredibly funny and it is the exact tone this movie is going for.

• 1:42:22David Sims?

  It's, this movie is close to that movie in like just manic tone.

• 1:42:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:27David Sims?

  But Used Cars is about something really stupid, which is used car salesmen across the street from each other, basically getting into like a prank war.

• 1:42:34Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 1:42:35David Sims?

  And this movie is about World War II.

• 1:42:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:37David Sims?

  You know, and it's sort of like, the tone is all wrong and maybe there's a way to make it right for 1941 that they just didn't figure out. But with. Use Cars, it's like, yeah, just simplify a little bit and then I can, you know, root for people and think they're stupid.

• 1:42:51Griffin Newman?

  Without spoiling it, Use Cars also builds to one big set piece that is like a logistical production like wowzer, right? And that maybe was not really expensive because the movie didn't cost that much, but certainly is like a big to do. And it like earns pulling off this one sequence where the movie at that point has been so moderate in scale. That you're like laughing at the excess of it because it's so out of nowhere. You can't believe suddenly this movie's heightening to this level versus like nineteen forty one starting at that point.

• 1:43:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:43:22Griffin Newman?

  He also Spielberg in in this fucking documentary, I'm quoting eight thousand times, says like, you know, he's like, I'm proud of the movie. I had fun making it. I should have let Zemeckis direct it. Their voice and their sensibility was like, they're on the page and I didn't get it and I didn't have a take. And they were much angrier and more political and like they maybe could have pulled it off. But there's the incredible like ripple effect of like, I want to hold your hand bombs. Which they make while they're sort of developing this script. Comes out before this, this bombs and then people are like, oh, those guys are trouble. I want to hold your hand is great.

• 1:44:04David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:44:05Griffin Newman?

  But it's like a flop and then they write Spielberg's first flop. And they wanted to make Back to the Future next. And Spielberg was going to produce it and they were like, if you produce our next movie, we will seem like you're cronies and no one will ever take us seriously on our own.

• 1:44:20David Sims?

  Wow.

• 1:44:20Griffin Newman?

  So Zemeckis like puts out, I'm a director for hire. I need to just do a studio job and like impress people. Gets Romancing the Stone, overdelivers on Romancing the Stone. Romancing the Stone is a success.

• 1:44:33David Sims?

  Good movie.

• 1:44:33Griffin Newman?

  And then that leads to him getting to make Back to the Future with Spielberg as producer and everyone like trusting that he's his own guy. If they had directed 1941, it probably would have been better than this.

• 1:44:46David Sims?

  But I wouldn't have gotten the budget.

• 1:44:46Griffin Newman?

  I don't think it would have, like, we would have not had the next 10 to 15 years of Zemeckis we got, I'm guessing.

• 1:44:54Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 1:44:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I also, I'd like, I, I don't know if like a stronger directorial voice, I haven't read the script, but a stronger directorial voice or a more dialed in directorial voice to what the script is going for necessarily compensates for the problems in the script, which I think is a bit, is the main issue with this, this movie. It's just a little overstuffed and the narrative is hard to track. Griffin, going back to Treat Williams real quick, did you feel seen up on screen seeing a character who, who's defining characteristic is he hates eggs?

• 1:45:25David Sims?

  Does hate eggs.

• 1:45:26Griffin Newman?

  Wiggs, to a degree, you can't imagine.

• 1:45:29Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:45:30Griffin Newman?

  Every time the egg shit was called out, I like physically held a thumbs up to the screen, which I was not doing at any other point in the film. I'm like, I hate that I'm rooting for this guy that I'm relating to him.

• 1:45:42Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:45:43Griffin Newman?

  But he's right about eggs.

• 1:45:44Speaker 05

  Zemeckis figured out the Treat Williams character with Biff. He basically, who also hates manure.

• 1:45:49Griffin Newman?

  You're right.

• 1:45:50Speaker 02

  The manure bit at the end is the same payoff as the eggs bit at the end. He ends in a pile of it.

• 1:45:55Speaker 05

  And also Treat Williams.

• 1:45:56Griffin Newman?

  And he's like similar, a date rapist who like in Back to the Future, you enjoy his comeuppance if he's vindicating.

• 1:46:02Speaker 05

  And in this one, I guess Treat Williams also gets kind of like assaulted by the lady is kind of what his comeuppance is.

• 1:46:08Griffin Newman?

  But then like, that's a good point of like this, the Wally character feels like Crispin Glover in Back to the Future with like less of a take.

• 1:46:17Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:46:18David Sims?

  Way less of a take.

• 1:46:19Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 1:46:19David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:21Griffin Newman?

  Here, here's the thing I want to throw just like into the, the conception of this movie, right? And, and like the idea that like Zemeckis maybe would have directed this better, but should this not have been directed by anybody? Wiggs and Mitch, have you had this experience as well? Cause I was thinking this while watching it of like reading scripts that come across as like potential jobs or just like things that are like floating around the industry that you get your eyes on and you're like, oh my God, this is so funny. This is the funniest script I've read in a long time. And then the movie comes out two years later, it's a disaster, but the movie isn't really that different from the script. And you like, the realization I've had sometimes of like, there are certain things that are funny on paper, that just immediately fall apart if they are realized.

• 1:47:07Griffin Newman?

  Where you're like, this is funny in mind's eye, and the second you have real people doing it in front of like, a proper set, you can't stop thinking about the fact that like, oh, World War II is happening.

• 1:47:18Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:47:18Griffin Newman?

  You know, like shit like that.

• 1:47:20Speaker 02

  I, I know what you're describing. I can't think of a specific example.

• 1:47:22Speaker 05

  Well, it happens to us every week with, we write the Doughboys episodes.

• 1:47:25Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 1:47:26David Sims?

  Of course.

• 1:47:26Speaker 02

  The scripts are great.

• 1:47:27Speaker 05

  The scripts are really, really good, yeah.

• 1:47:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. You have Rosenthal do a pass, and then you're like, this is the best one yet.

• 1:47:35Speaker 05

  I know exactly what you're talking about, just with auditioning and stuff, and like,

• 1:47:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:38Speaker 05

  For me, it's always more like, oh, this like, kind of, this works. Like, this is like, it seems like the person gets this or something, and then,

• 1:47:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:47:46Speaker 05

  when you see it made, you're like, ooh, something was lost in translation or whatever, but I can't, I can't think-

• 1:47:50Griffin Newman?

  Also, very often with like, kind of, high-concept special effects comedies, where I read it, and I'm like, this one's actually well-written. It has good jokes and good structure.

• 1:47:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:47:59Griffin Newman?

  And then like, the execution of those things is so fine, for like, how it stays funny but within stakes. Like, the one I kept thinking of while watching this, a radically different movie, but like, The Sitter, the Jonah Hill, David Gordon Green movie, was like, this really hot script, and it was like, oh my god, there are like, ten incredible lines on every page of this thing. And then you watch it as a movie, and you're like, it's less funny the second they're actual kids.

• 1:48:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:48:26Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah.

• 1:48:26Griffin Newman?

  You know, because you just can't stop thinking about like, is this like, child abuse?

• 1:48:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:48:31Griffin Newman?

  Like-

• 1:48:31Speaker 05

  Yes. I know, I'm trying to think of a specific version of that, but like, I mean, like, I know that there's been so many instances of it, and I do have a couple in my head, I'm not gonna say them, but, but, uh, because I don't, I'm not gonna say them. But, uh,

• 1:48:44Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:48:44Speaker 05

  But I remember, I just, just remember when like, year one was coming out, you mentioned it earlier.

• 1:48:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, perfect example.

• 1:48:50Speaker 05

  How excited everyone was about that movie, and the cast was great, and then that movie just fell apart, basically, I mean-

• 1:48:56Griffin Newman?

  But that was like, the hottest script.

• 1:48:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:48:58Griffin Newman?

  That like, the hottest people were attaching themselves to.

• 1:49:00David Sims?

  Old comedy legend directing it, new comedy star starring in it.

• 1:49:03Griffin Newman?

  Right, and it's Apple Towns, like, first, like, new project after Knocked Up opened.

• 1:49:08David Sims?

  Year one, it kind of feels like an old Mel Brooks-y movie, right?

• 1:49:11Griffin Newman?

  He's bringing greatness back.

• 1:49:12David Sims?

  Yeah, you know, caveman, that's funny.

• 1:49:13Griffin Newman?

  Everyone was like, this script is funny on paper, but it's one of those scripts where you're like, cool, it'll take sixty million dollars to mount.

• 1:49:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:49:19Griffin Newman?

  Because it needs like, giant sets and extras and whatever, and you watch it, and it just like, falls apart in real time.

• 1:49:25Speaker 02

  Can I, can I throw out a theory?

• 1:49:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:27Speaker 02

  Is the number one cursed?

• 1:49:29Griffin Newman?

  Okay, let's.

• 1:49:31David Sims?

  Movies with one in them?

• 1:49:33Speaker 05

  1941, year one, red one.

• 1:49:36Griffin Newman?

  Red one.

• 1:49:37David Sims?

  Well, red one, sure.

• 1:49:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but that's three.

• 1:49:39David Sims?

  Yeah, I know, but I can't like look up movies with the number one, like, you know what I mean?

• 1:49:43Speaker 05

  Sid, you've got a point here, damn it.

• 1:49:46Griffin Newman?

  Transformers one.

• 1:49:48David Sims?

  I like that movie.

• 1:49:49Griffin Newman?

  Quite good, but was a big flop.

• 1:49:50David Sims?

  Didn't do well.

• 1:49:51Griffin Newman?

  Did not hit.

• 1:49:52David Sims?

  Transformers one is one of those movies where it's like, you know, it starts out with like, "Oh, I'm just like a ordinary transformer working in the mines," and I'm like, "He's a fucking robot that turns into shit." Like, it's such a weird thing, and yet I was charmed.

• 1:50:07Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing, by the last 10 minutes, you're like, is this a perfect diamond cut screen?

• 1:50:11David Sims?

  It's, did you guys see Transformers one?

• 1:50:14Speaker 02

  I did not.

• 1:50:15Speaker 05

  Wait, can a one be in the title? Like, 1917, see, it's 19 and 17, there's no one.

• 1:50:20Speaker 02

  There's no one, no, it doesn't line under one.

• 1:50:22David Sims?

  Yeah, that doesn't count.

• 1:50:23Speaker 02

  How about, how about this for a recent bomb?

• 1:50:24Griffin Newman?

  One said out loud.

• 1:50:25Speaker 02

  Horizon, American Saga, Chapter One.

• 1:50:28Griffin Newman?

  I mean, certainly a big flop.

• 1:50:30David Sims?

  But a big flop.

• 1:50:31Speaker 02

  Bit of a flop.

• 1:50:31Griffin Newman?

  Air Force One is the only title that's coming to mind.

• 1:50:34David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:35Griffin Newman?

  Well-liked hit.

• 1:50:36David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:50:36Griffin Newman?

  That has stood the test of time and has one in the title.

• 1:50:39David Sims?

  And I'm a huge fan of the airplane when a certain president is aboard. The current one, by the time this episode drops.

• 1:50:46Speaker 02

  Ready Player One?

• 1:50:48Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 1:50:49David Sims?

  I'm a huge fan.

• 1:50:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you'd be the fight over, yeah.

• 1:50:52David Sims?

  I think Ready Player One is a terrific film, but a lot of people don't.

• 1:50:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:56David Sims?

  Uh, and it's one of the still works.

• 1:50:57Griffin Newman?

  Loaded Weapon One?

• 1:50:58David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 1:50:59Griffin Newman?

  I'm saying that's, that's a flop.

• 1:51:01David Sims?

  I've never seen it. Is, do, do, I wonder if it's any good.

• 1:51:04Speaker 02

  I have seen it, and I remember it making me laugh when I was like 13.

• 1:51:08David Sims?

  It's just funny that it's Emilio Estevez and Samuel L. Jackson, you're like, oh, so it's like an action movie? They're like, no, no, no, it's a parody, and I'm like, but those guys could just be in an action.

• 1:51:17Speaker 02

  Yes, right, yeah.

• 1:51:17Griffin Newman?

  They could have actually been alternate casting in any of the buddy cop movies of the previous five years.

• 1:51:22David Sims?

  So are they funny? And I guess I've never had the question answered for me. I mean, Samuel L. Jackson can pretty much do anything.

• 1:51:27Griffin Newman?

  Agreed.

• 1:51:28David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:28Griffin Newman?

  That movie must have been Emilio getting jealous of Charlie.

• 1:51:32David Sims?

  This is the thing of his fucking brother, yes.

• 1:51:34Griffin Newman?

  That he was like, I can fucking make fun of serious movies too.

• 1:51:37David Sims?

  You can do hot shots, I'll do this.

• 1:51:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:39Speaker 05

  A Wiger's theory is bad.

• 1:51:41Speaker 02

  It starts to fall apart.

• 1:51:42Speaker 05

  There's a ton of good ones. I just looked.

• 1:51:44Speaker 02

  You got Godzilla minus one. You got.

• 1:51:46David Sims?

  That one was good.

• 1:51:47Speaker 02

  Good one. One of my favorite movies of last year.

• 1:51:49Speaker 05

  One flew over the cuckoo's nest.

• 1:51:50Speaker 02

  One of the cuckoo's nest, yeah.

• 1:51:51Speaker 05

  One hundred and one Dalmatians.

• 1:51:52Speaker 02

  I'm not the biggest Rogue One fan, but it is a good movie.

• 1:51:54David Sims?

  It's a good, it's a pretty good movie.

• 1:51:56Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:51:56Speaker 05

  You fucked up bad.

• 1:51:57David Sims?

  Yeah, this is terrible.

• 1:51:59Griffin Newman?

  Theory sucks.

• 1:52:01David Sims?

  I want to say about John Belushi, who we've talked about, but you know.

• 1:52:05Griffin Newman?

  We've never covered.

• 1:52:06David Sims?

  Well, obviously, because he's.

• 1:52:08Griffin Newman?

  He's made five movies.

• 1:52:09David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:10David Sims?

  He was, as we've, you know, Spielberg was like obsessed with SNL. He knew, I guess, you know, like many people, that it like had a lot of juice. And he was like, kind of a groupie for the first season. He went to almost every taping.

• 1:52:24Griffin Newman?

  Wow. Did we talk about this in our group text?

• 1:52:26David Sims?

  It was dork.

• 1:52:26Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:52:26David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:27Griffin Newman?

  So, that's like, that's like much publicized.

• 1:52:31David Sims?

  It is kind of dorky of him.

• 1:52:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Much publicized that during like those first five seasons, he would go to almost every taping.

• 1:52:37David Sims?

  He was hanging out.

• 1:52:38Griffin Newman?

  And he was like entranced by the production and like the machinery and everything. What's crazier is that I have heard from people who currently work on SNL.

• 1:52:46David Sims?

  He still hangs out.

• 1:52:46Griffin Newman?

  That he still goes to more episodes than he doesn't.

• 1:52:49David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:49Speaker 02

  That's wild.

• 1:52:51Griffin Newman?

  That he'll just shot, show up and they'll be like, yeah, he like took his.

• 1:52:54David Sims?

  Giving dismukes notes.

• 1:52:55Griffin Newman?

  He's standing in the back. No, he like doesn't interact with anyone. He's just like, I love watching this happen.

• 1:53:00David Sims?

  I mean, good for him. If I was Steven Spielberg, I would like to, I would just do the things I wanted to do.

• 1:53:04Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 1:53:04Speaker 02

  Wait, was, was he at the infamous taping depicted in Saturday Night? Was he, was he in attendance at that real taping?

• 1:53:12David Sims?

  I'm not actually sure about that. I mean, that, that taping was so crazy.

• 1:53:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:16David Sims?

  Everything was falling apart.

• 1:53:17Speaker 05

  There is a moment where, where, um, where Sammy Fabelman is in the background.

• 1:53:26Griffin Newman?

  There, there.

• 1:53:27David Sims?

  He's playing a dual role like Belushi. Yeah, yeah. In one, in one shot, he's actually playing Sammy Fabelman. Right.

• 1:53:33Griffin Newman?

  If you look really closely, uh, it's eagle eyed viewers, uh, watching Wrightman's Saturday Night, you can see an actor dressed like Steven Spielberg is laying one of the famous bricks.

• 1:53:44David Sims?

  Those bricks.

• 1:53:44Griffin Newman?

  In those final seconds before George Carlin's monologue.

• 1:53:48David Sims?

  Finally did it. Matthew Reese, kind of a curveball as Carlin, not bad.

• 1:53:53Griffin Newman?

  Kind of good.

• 1:53:53David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:53Griffin Newman?

  This is the thing. I, I, I'm gonna say this. I think I fully hate that movie.

• 1:53:58David Sims?

  Fair enough.

• 1:53:59Griffin Newman?

  And I try to reserve throwing the H word out at films. But that movie drove me insane.

• 1:54:03David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:04Griffin Newman?

  I think it basically has like 10 borderline great performances in it.

• 1:54:08David Sims?

  Performances in it. There's some bad ones, too.

• 1:54:10Griffin Newman?

  But I did think this watching 1941 last night where I'm like, if they announced tomorrow that Steven Spielberg wanted to make a movie about any version of the first five years of SNL.

• 1:54:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:54:22Griffin Newman?

  Even just having seen Saturday Night, I'd be like, sign me the fuck up.

• 1:54:26Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:54:26David Sims?

  I will say, I just, I'm seeing here in the notes that Steven Spielberg was the guy who told Agent Brody to do the Rasta dance in 1986.

• 1:54:33Speaker 02

  Oh, boy.

• 1:54:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. He also told Ashley Simpson to do lip syncing shit.

• 1:54:37David Sims?

  Right, just lip sync it. And he did give a picture of the Pope to Sinead O'Connor.

• 1:54:41Griffin Newman?

  He did. Those are the only three times he's ever given notes.

• 1:54:44David Sims?

  Yeah, he was just like, hey, do you want this?

• 1:54:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's pop comedy.

• 1:54:46David Sims?

  He actually gives a picture of the Pope to every musical guest. She's just the only one who did anything.

• 1:54:50Griffin Newman?

  Everyone else just folds it up, puts it in their pocket.

• 1:54:51Speaker 05

  You should rip up a picture of the two Popes on Doughboys, see what happens.

• 1:54:56David Sims?

  You should.

• 1:54:57Griffin Newman?

  You should.

• 1:54:57David Sims?

  Wait, have a Pope Month.

• 1:54:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:59Speaker 05

  Pope Month is fun.

• 1:55:00Griffin Newman?

  Conclave Pope.

• 1:55:01David Sims?

  Conclave.

• 1:55:02Speaker 05

  Man, if the Doughboys went to the Vatican.

• 1:55:05David Sims?

  Yeah, Doughboys go to the Vatican and an invisible force throws them out. Like, you try to cross the border and you're just like expelled.

• 1:55:14Griffin Newman?

  What would Vatican Month be called?

• 1:55:16Speaker 05

  Oh, man.

• 1:55:17Speaker 02

  Boy.

• 1:55:17Speaker 05

  This is the pun master.

• 1:55:18David Sims?

  I don't know. Is there like a McDonald's in the Vatican? Like, is there like a

• 1:55:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I wonder if there's a Vatican City Sparrow. There's gotta be something.

• 1:55:24David Sims?

  Is it really?

• 1:55:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, Vatican's pretty good.

• 1:55:26David Sims?

  Vatican's pretty good.

• 1:55:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:28Speaker 02

  Vatican shitty.

• 1:55:31David Sims?

  Wait a second.

• 1:55:32Speaker 05

  Vatican shitty's pretty good.

• 1:55:34Griffin Newman?

  Is there actually a, um, a Sparrows at the Vatican City?

• 1:55:38David Sims?

  There's no way there's a Sparrows. No.

• 1:55:41Speaker 02

  There's gotta be.

• 1:55:42David Sims?

  There's one at 73rd.

• 1:55:43Speaker 05

  I haven't seen Conclave yet. Do they, do they show, do they show a Sabaro or anything like that?

• 1:55:48David Sims?

  Yeah, they get a big pizza in Conclave. I mean, Two Popes actually does have a pizza sequence.

• 1:55:52Speaker 02

  Oh, right.

• 1:55:53David Sims?

  Two Popes.

• 1:55:53Griffin Newman?

  It does. Yeah.

• 1:55:54David Sims?

  Yeah, where Hopkins says, "That's my pizza." That's a real sequence in The Two Popes.

• 1:55:59Griffin Newman?

  I'll say, I did, I did hear a rumor about the Vatican City Sabaros.

• 1:56:02David Sims?

  What's that?

• 1:56:03Griffin Newman?

  That I just established may or may not exist.

• 1:56:05David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 1:56:05Griffin Newman?

  I heard a rumor that someone I know went there and they looked in the marinara tank.

• 1:56:10David Sims?

  Oh, God.

• 1:56:11Griffin Newman?

  And they were doing a Jaws parody inside of it.

• 1:56:13Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:56:14Griffin Newman?

  And then they went back the next day and in the marinara, they were doing a parody of the opening of 1941.

• 1:56:24Speaker 05

  I hear the, I hear that the, uh, the sparrow at the Vatican City is where they, uh, where they store all the holy water.

• 1:56:30David Sims?

  All of it.

• 1:56:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've heard that too.

• 1:56:32David Sims?

  For the entire world.

• 1:56:33Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:56:33David Sims?

  It's wet. Remember the joke is that it's wet? Yes. No, he knows. He knows. We all know the joke. And you guys should listen to Griffin's sparrow episode of Doughboys. Uh, for a moment where I was making dinner, I think, while I was listening to it. And I started to have that moment with comedy podcasts sometimes where I'm like, "Am I having like a panic attack or a brain event? Or have they just been talking about fucking water for a half hour? Like, it feels like you've lost your mind."

• 1:56:58Speaker 05

  It sounds like you hate us, which is the right reaction to it.

• 1:57:00David Sims?

  It was so funny.

• 1:57:01Speaker 05

  Which, by the way, my reaction to anything Saturday Night Live does is like most comedians is that they can do no wrong. I love Saturday Night.

• 1:57:07Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 1:57:07Speaker 05

  And Saturday Night Live and everything about it is great.

• 1:57:10Griffin Newman?

  Uh, you text us every Saturday night.

• 1:57:13David Sims?

  You were like, "My review, A+."

• 1:57:15Griffin Newman?

  It's another one for the record books, boys.

• 1:57:19David Sims?

  10 out of 10. The streak continues.

• 1:57:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:22Speaker 02

  No, no, no, real quick, sorry. I just, I heard at the Vatican, I remember at the Vatican City sparrow, that in the pasta water where they cook, uh, the tortellinis, that, uh, the, the Shape of Water guy hangs out in there.

• 1:57:35David Sims?

  The, the fish god?

• 1:57:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's in there. Yeah.

• 1:57:38Griffin Newman?

  Well, I was, I was coming up with a Sally Hawkins take and I think you had the better one. I was drafting it in my head.

• 1:57:43David Sims?

  She jerks off in the tortellini one.

• 1:57:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, exactly. That's what I was gonna do.

• 1:57:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, the Shape of Water guy got fully baptized in the sparrow.

• 1:57:53Speaker 02

  He's hardcore Catholic now. He's like a J.D. Vance, like, late in life conversion.

• 1:57:56David Sims?

  Right. He's weird about it, right? He keeps saying ecumenical. You're like, relax.

• 1:58:03Speaker 05

  Do you think, so go on a Saturday Night Live tangent, do you think Saturday, do you think it is like the most bulletproof of all shows still? Because I still do think that people are not as critical as I know comedians are of it. Like,

• 1:58:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:16Speaker 02

  Do you mean publicly?

• 1:58:17David Sims?

  Bulletproof and gets so much shit, though.

• 1:58:19Speaker 05

  It does get shit, but yeah.

• 1:58:21Griffin Newman?

  I think you're right, Mitch, that like, I will hear people say like, oh my god, SNL is so irrelevant. Like, why is that still on the air? And I'm like, you clearly don't engage with it anymore, but you cannot deny that this show has basically stayed culturally important for like, the first like 20 years of SNL, it's like, oh, they're obviously peaks and valleys.

• 1:58:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:58:43Griffin Newman?

  I would say they've basically remained kind of center of the culture for like 25 years uncontested.

• 1:58:50David Sims?

  And it's also kind of one of those like, well, why don't you go do a better one? And no one's ever like, whatever.

• 1:58:55Speaker 05

  No one can pull it off. And also, this movie is kind of, this, you want this movie to be an SNL feeling movie and it's,

• 1:59:02David Sims?

  It should be.

• 1:59:03Speaker 05

  And it's not.

• 1:59:03David Sims?

  That's probably the kind of anarchic feeling Spielberg wants. And that's why, just to finish my point about John Belushi, that character was a minor character in the script and they kind of beef it up once they cast him.

• 1:59:15Griffin Newman?

  Right. His, that character was only supposed to enter into the film basically at the point where he lands on the ground. He was supposed to just be a last act. Here's one final element of chaos. Cast Belushi there, like, we gotta thread Belushi through the first two thirds of this.

• 1:59:30David Sims?

  Belushi and Ackroyd are both doing SNL. They could only do three days a week of filming. And Belushi, I don't know if you guys know this, was, was very interested in using the drug cocaine all the time.

• 1:59:42Griffin Newman?

  Does JJ have a citation for that?

• 1:59:44David Sims?

  And Spielberg, I think probably because Belushi died so young and so on, you know, it has always just been like, it was wonderful working with him. It was a great time. But I think on set, he was a bit of a nightmare. And at one point Spielberg yelled at him like, you can't do this to me. Like, for $350,000, you gotta show up on time. Because like Belushi was always late to set and didn't know his lines and stuff.

• 2:00:04Griffin Newman?

  That's how Animal House was made, right? Where he had like two to three days off per week and he would like shuttle back and forth and was like delirious.

• 2:00:12David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:00:13Griffin Newman?

  And it comes out the year before this and it's like a revolutionary hit.

• 2:00:16David Sims?

  He's amazing in it.

• 2:00:17Griffin Newman?

  It's like culturally like shattering, right?

• 2:00:20David Sims?

  Do you guys like Belushi?

• 2:00:21Speaker 05

  I love him.

• 2:00:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I mean, I think he's like, I think all of us, he's like a little bit before our time.

• 2:00:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, very much so.

• 2:00:27Griffin Newman?

  But I think if you watch his, you know, totemic like performances, it's like, okay, this guy had the juice. And, you know, obviously life tragically cut short.

• 2:00:35Speaker 05

  It was interesting to see a movie that I like, I see Belushi doing stuff that I haven't seen before with 1940. Well, not, not that he did something different, but I'm saying like,

• 2:00:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:43Speaker 05

  Oh, this is just footage of him I haven't watched because I'd never seen the movie.

• 2:00:46Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:00:47Speaker 05

  And it was like, I got, I get it. You know what I mean? I get why he was a star and, and.

• 2:00:51Griffin Newman?

  And, and that's the thing, like, as I said before, every time he's on screen, it at least resembles a comedy. Which you can't say for like John Candy and Dan Aykroyd.

• 2:01:01Speaker 05

  You can't.

• 2:01:01Griffin Newman?

  The other wildly funny people in this movie who are all basically at the peaks of their careers. Belushi is the only one who like actually has that level of juice. To your point, there are basically, if you're like discounting small supporting roles, there are four Belushi like movies. It even in Animal House, he's in a lot less of it than people remember. But it's Animal House, 1941, Blues Brothers, it's five, I'm sorry, Continental Divide, Neighbors.

• 2:01:27Speaker 05

  And Neighbors, which I've never seen.

• 2:01:28Griffin Newman?

  Those are the five movies where like Belushi's above the title, his face is the biggest on the poster.

• 2:01:33Speaker 05

  Right.

• 2:01:33Griffin Newman?

  I was such a big SNL kid. I discovered SNL when I was like eight or nine. And the video store across the street from us had a bunch of VHSs of the first five seasons of SNL. So I was like rabidly watching first five seasons SNL.

• 2:01:47Speaker 05

  Right.

• 2:01:48Griffin Newman?

  And it was like canonized for me in this massive, massive way. And like my father was such a big Belushi fan, he showed me Animal House and Blues Brothers way too young. And I was sort of like raised at the altar of this guy. I remember at some point when I was young, my father saying to me, and then, you know, Steven Spielberg made 1941, which was this big flop.

• 2:02:07Speaker 05

  Right.

• 2:02:07Griffin Newman?

  And I was like, what's that? And he was like, it's like a war comedy with Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi. And I was like, oh, so it's the best movie ever made?

• 2:02:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:02:16Griffin Newman?

  And he was like, no, it sucks and it's not funny. And I was like, how is that possible? But I think that's like the way in which this was received in a way that also doesn't help this movie upon release is like, the note, the idea of like, oh my God, Spielberg is gonna work. With the most exciting people in comedy, like the people who are fucking burning down the institutions. Um, and the first I, these trailers that I was searching for that fucking tagline I wanted. The first teaser trailer for this movie, which is a year before the film comes out. Was by all accounts directed by John Milius, and I would say is funnier than the entirety of the finished film is. Is John Belushi landing a plane and then doing direct address to the camera.

• 2:02:58Griffin Newman?

  Sort of like war ad, like I'm out there fighting for you, you, I need to enlist you to come see my movie next year. Like it's, he's pitching next Christmas and it's just Belushi doing straight to camera chaos. And if you see that trailer and it says like from the director of Jaws and Close Encounters. One year from now, there's a John Belushi comedy. And then you sit in the theater a year later and this is what you get. Like the poster is like his giant caricaturized head.

• 2:03:27Speaker 05

  Twenty minutes of them total, maybe in the movie, right?

• 2:03:29David Sims?

  Maybe, maybe. And a lot of it is silent. Like it's just him driving a plane.

• 2:03:33Griffin Newman?

  But like, that's what they were leading with.

• 2:03:36David Sims?

  Yeah. Well, what else are you gonna fucking lead?

• 2:03:37Griffin Newman?

  The second teaser trailer, the second teaser trailer shows you like a model set of the Los, of Los Angeles.

• 2:03:43David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:44Griffin Newman?

  And then giant stone 1941 letters, numbers rise out of the ground. And then it just does like Superman flying credits of every cast member.

• 2:03:54David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:03:54Griffin Newman?

  Which you go into the list of like Ned Beatty, Christopher Lee.

• 2:03:57David Sims?

  Trishira Mafune.

• 2:03:58Griffin Newman?

  All this shit. It's just giving you all the names and then says like the most explosive comedy event in the year. Those first two trailers show combined zero seconds of footage of the movie. And all they're doing is get ready. This is going to be the biggest shit of all time. Like they like put a fucking target on their backs.

• 2:04:16David Sims?

  Yeah, they did. They also meant to make it for 12 million and it cost 31.

• 2:04:20Speaker 05

  Which is so much slower than I even thought it was, honestly. But I guess with 1979, that's quite a bit, right? But, but.

• 2:04:27David Sims?

  It's, it's a lot of money.

• 2:04:28Griffin Newman?

  It would be over a hundred million dollars.

• 2:04:30David Sims?

  It basically made its money back domestically, barely, and that's it. It made some more worldwide. So I don't think. It was a total disaster, but it made Spielberg look bad because Jaws had gone over budget and over schedule. And now, you know, Close Encounters, they kind of fucked around, right? Exactly. And like, kind of made it seem like a low budget movie and turned into a really big budget movie.

• 2:04:52Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:04:52David Sims?

  And so it's by Raiders is when he's like, I need to demonstrate that I can like contain a budget.

• 2:04:57Griffin Newman?

  Cause those two were like, you can get away with it if you keep making one of the highest grossing movies of all time.

• 2:05:03David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:05:04Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and then this time it's like, if you're just breaking even, we're done with your shit.

• 2:05:09David Sims?

  When it came out, uh, like I said, it basically turned a profit. Pauline Kael did like it. Pauline Kael is like one of his earliest fans.

• 2:05:20Griffin Newman?

  But then turns on him by Raiders. The next movie, she's like, fuck this. It's kitty bullshit. Wow.

• 2:05:25David Sims?

  But largely critics hated it. Um, and you know, it would, like you said, Griff, like they had just set themselves up for disappointment. Like, you know, the audiences were just, I think, expecting the funniest and biggest movie. And it's like, you're not getting funny. I guess you're getting big.

• 2:05:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but the big isn't funny.

• 2:05:44David Sims?

  No, and it feels like you're being yelled at.

• 2:05:47Speaker 02

  Very, yeah, very strange.

• 2:05:48Speaker 05

  That's insane to turn on a Raiders.

• 2:05:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. So I, I mean, like I.

• 2:05:51David Sims?

  Yeah. Pauline Kael was basically like Raiders. She was just like boring. This is like schematic. He's like lost the plot.

• 2:05:56Griffin Newman?

  And she was the one person who, when Sugarland Express came out, her review is like, this is one of the greatest debuts by a filmmaker ever. He's going to be one of the great American filmmakers. Like called it, dead on. And then by Raiders, she's like this fucking kid playing with his stupid toys. Yeah.

• 2:06:14Speaker 02

  Uh, John Candy is like barely in this movie, but he does have.

• 2:06:17David Sims?

  In this movie.

• 2:06:18Speaker 02

  But he does have like one of the few hard jokes that, that worked for me, Griffin, which is the, when, uh, Dan Aykroyd gets knocked out. He gets hit in the head and John Candy's like, oh, he always had a glass head. I kind of like that glass head. Um, but.

• 2:06:31David Sims?

  There you go.

• 2:06:32Speaker 05

  There's, there's also, he, he also has the, the bit where him and, uh, what was the actor's name? John McRae? Um.

• 2:06:38David Sims?

  Yeah. Hal McRae.

• 2:06:39Speaker 05

  John McRae.

• 2:06:39Griffin Newman?

  Who's an NFL player?

• 2:06:40David Sims?

  Hal McRae is a baseball player. What am I talking about?

• 2:06:43Speaker 05

  Uh, Frank McCreary. Frank McCreary.

• 2:06:45Griffin Newman?

  That guy was a professional football player.

• 2:06:47Speaker 05

  Where they, they get, he gets stood on his face and, and he looks like a black man and then he throws flou- so flower part is like, why is he throwing flower at him anyways?

• 2:06:56Griffin Newman?

  And then they laugh at each other while Candy's panicking because they look like they're doing opposite minstrel. It's like a very weird bit that goes on for a while.

• 2:07:06Speaker 05

  It's weird. He's also in used cars. I, I actually liked that there was like-

• 2:07:10Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yes.

• 2:07:11Speaker 05

  A per- because he's like, to the back of it, he tells Candy to go to the back of the tank. And I think I actually liked that there was like, a guy particip- even though it's white people who wrote this joke, I'm like, there's a man participating in this, these kind of racy jokes, which before it's like, we're pointing and laughing at, like, the movie is pointing and laughing at people.

• 2:07:30Griffin Newman?

  That, that he's more active. But it's like, it's one of those things where it's like, I'm not even framing it as like, a punching down, like punching up thing. It just so often in this movie, you're like, I don't understand who the target of the joke is, right? And like, for how much Spielberg would cite the Marx Brothers and like Looney Tunes and these things that had this sort of like, chaotic, a million things are happening and nothing's too big moments. All of those things have a very simple, like, innate setup of like, the Marx Brothers usually go into fancy places. They're at opera houses-

• 2:08:05Speaker 05

  Right.

• 2:08:06Griffin Newman?

  Or like dinner parties, and you surround them with a bunch of, well, I never. And you're like, wait, I want to see those people be taken down.

• 2:08:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:08:13Griffin Newman?

  Right. It's funny to see Margaret DeMonte get taken down a bit. Bugs Bunny can be an asshole to a hunter.

• 2:08:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:08:18Griffin Newman?

  Because a hunter is pointing a gun in his hole-

• 2:08:20Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:08:21Griffin Newman?

  And he has to like, fight to survive, right? And that way, it's funny when he like, is a stinker. This movie is like, everyone's just yelling at everyone and doing shit.

• 2:08:31Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:08:31Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, I don't know, like, I have no perspective on who I'm supposed to be. I don't want to say who I'm supposed to be rooting for, but just sort of like, who any joke is at the expense of?

• 2:08:41Speaker 05

  Why did John Candy throw flower at him? It doesn't even, we don't know. It doesn't make sense.

• 2:08:45Griffin Newman?

  That whole, and, and, and, and again, yeah, you're not sure who like, who's supposed to be the butt of this joke. And then in, within that tank though, there's all sorts-

• 2:08:52Speaker 02

  Of shit like that happening like there's there's also Dan Aykroyd who's like yeah he Dan Aykroyd puts a sack of oranges over his head.

• 2:09:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:00Speaker 02

  And then he puts the two oranges on his eyes and is like, I am a bug. And that's the sort of things like if that's in the script, I like, I have no idea how they reached that point.

• 2:09:10David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:11Speaker 02

  But like, it's probably just not.

• 2:09:12David Sims?

  No way it's in the script.

• 2:09:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's probably just not in the script, right? So Spielberg is just pointing a camera at a funny guy and saying, I don't know, do something funny. And so it just feels completely random.

• 2:09:20David Sims?

  I mean, it's very funny to think of me with like, interior, you cut back to interior tank.

• 2:09:25Speaker 05

  I'm a bug.

• 2:09:26David Sims?

  And it cuts back to whatever else.

• 2:09:29Griffin Newman?

  Here's like a great encapsulation of the movie for any listeners who did not bother to watch it, right? There are like eight major plot threads, just within this one thread of the tank, guys, right? You have John Candy and Frank McRae doing this like race swapping play, right? Then you have Dan Aykroyd in the back. This is all in the last like 20 minutes of the movie when it's reaching a fever pitch.

• 2:09:52David Sims?

  For everyone that's on the street and it's crazy.

• 2:09:54Griffin Newman?

  Starts at a fever pitch, right? So like Candy McRae are doing this, Aykroyd is directly behind them with oranges on his eyes going, I'm a bug. And then immediately after that, the tank runs through the walls of a paint factory.

• 2:10:07David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:10:07Griffin Newman?

  Into giant vats of colored paint, making like huge colored explosions. And you're like, there is too much going on.

• 2:10:15David Sims?

  This is far too.

• 2:10:15Griffin Newman?

  And none of it has to do with anything else.

• 2:10:17David Sims?

  Can't keep track of it, yeah.

• 2:10:18Griffin Newman?

  And this is just one of the strings. And then we're like cutting back to like Tim Matheson, like trying to stop.

• 2:10:23David Sims?

  Fucking in a plane or Ned Beatty like blowing up his own house or whatever. Yeah, you know, like shit where you're just like.

• 2:10:29Griffin Newman?

  Talk about the Ned Beatty shit.

• 2:10:30David Sims?

  Well, because like, what's going on with that?

• 2:10:31Griffin Newman?

  I don't know.

• 2:10:32David Sims?

  It's just sort of like. I want to shout out Greg Jean, I think is his name.

• 2:10:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:10:37David Sims?

  Who did the miniatures on this movie. He's a legendary miniature guy. He'd done Close Encounters. Because, I mean, Spielberg says this, like, they did the most incredible job, like making Hollywood Boulevard, like the details on all these buildings are amazing, like. It's an incredibly. Masterful technical achievement, like what they're doing, all in the service of the bullshit you're talking about and blowing it all up. Greg Jean, I also want to say, did Star Trek: The Next Generation's

• 2:11:06Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:11:07David Sims?

  He built the ships.

• 2:11:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:09David Sims?

  And there's a famous, my favorite episode of Star Trek, one of my favorite episodes is Cause and Effect, which is the episode where they get stuck in a time loop because a ship keeps coming out of a black hole and crashing into them. And like then the day, it's a Groundhog Day episode. And when that episode ends, they avoid the ship and it turns out that it's the USS Bozeman and Kelsey Grammer is the captain and he like calls in, he's like, hello, how are you doing? And it turns out he's from like 80 years ago. He's been stuck in a time loop for 80 years. And the USS Bozeman is NCC 1941. As homage to this film.

• 2:11:41Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:11:42David Sims?

  There you go.

• 2:11:43Griffin Newman?

  And when Kelsey Grammer falls into the time warp, does he go, oh, my lord?

• 2:11:47David Sims?

  It's just so funny that it's Kelsey Grammer. It's like Frasier era Kelsey Grammer, wearing an old

• 2:11:53Griffin Newman?

  Thank you for recognizing what I was getting at.

• 2:11:55David Sims?

  That was very good.

• 2:11:56Griffin Newman?

  Thank you.

• 2:11:57David Sims?

  Anyway.

• 2:12:02David Sims?

  Hello, I'm Chris Richards, general manager at Safran Volkswagen Richmond. I'm here to announce an exciting new program that I want you to listen to. Here's my friend Happy.

• 2:12:11Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Happy Harry Turner, special finance manager at saffordcredit.com. If you're in an open Chapter 13 bankruptcy, recently filed a Chapter 7, or you've been turned down because of credit challenges, don't give up. For nearly 30 years, I've helped people get reliable transportation when others said no. Visit saffordcredit.com. Remember, I'm not happy unless you are.

• 2:12:35Griffin Newman?

  Gail said.

• 2:12:36David Sims?

  Bob Gail.

• 2:12:37Griffin Newman?

  When they were just like running wild, just throwing any single idea at the screenplay, right? And, and he was like, once we like were commissioned to write this movie, we just started doing a ton of research and looking into all the things that happened, like in this area, in this time period, interesting weird stories from the war that we could fold into the script and the way that like the Beatty thing is based on something that happened. They were looking for real life inspiration. And he was like, I found out about this incredible thing. I'm going to speak about this very quickly and probably get a lot of the major details wrong, but just try to do a quick overview.

• 2:13:08David Sims?

  Cool.

• 2:13:08Griffin Newman?

  There's, yeah, get ready. There's this thing called the Boeing Wonderland, which was when the Boeing Company was making all the warplanes, all their factory plants where they were being constructed and housed. They were worried were going to be targets. By the Japanese to be bombed or whatever. So they built faked, hyper detailed, forced perspective miniature towns.

• 2:13:34David Sims?

  A pretend town named the Boeing Wonderland.

• 2:13:36Griffin Newman?

  Atop the roof of this plant. So that anyone flying overhead would think it was just another suburban neighborhood. And it was basically a thing that only worked from the vantage point of someone in a plane from a reasonable distance that far above. And he was like, this is such an interesting thing. I can't believe this is real. People don't know about it because it was like kept top secret at the time. And like wrote it in as a whole plot thread and was like, we had this scene where they're like touring the town. And then we decided like, it was just one thing too many in the movie. And I'm like, that sounds more interesting than 90% of the shit that ended up in the movie.

• 2:14:09David Sims?

  This is the whole thing. It's just like, maybe that should just be a movie.

• 2:14:11Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 2:14:12David Sims?

  Like rather than whatever this is before.

• 2:14:15Speaker 02

  And then 30 years later, we get Welcome to Marwin.

• 2:14:18David Sims?

  Hey, a better movie. Is Welcome to Marwin better than 1941? Yes or no?

• 2:14:26Griffin Newman?

  This is really difficult. Have you guys been welcomed to Marwin? Yeah. Can you weigh in on this?

• 2:14:33David Sims?

  I mean, Nick lives in Marwin Call, to be clear. He's one of the action figures.

• 2:14:38Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 2:14:38Speaker 02

  I think I'd rather, I think I'd rather re-watch 1941 than Marwin.

• 2:14:44David Sims?

  That's fair.

• 2:14:45Speaker 05

  I like 1941. That's my big, uh, my.

• 2:14:49David Sims?

  Well, how much do you like it, Mitch? Like as we're winding down here.

• 2:14:52Speaker 05

  I think it's a C.

• 2:14:53David Sims?

  Right, so you're saying kind of like it's over the border of enjoyable for you. It's not like a great, great movie, but you don't mind.

• 2:15:01Speaker 05

  I want to watch the extended cut because, because the, by the way, what happens to Hollywood? Holly, what's his name? Slim Pickens.

• 2:15:09Griffin Newman?

  He's just kind of dropped from the movie. I mean, that's the other interesting thing he said is that Spielberg wanted Slim Pickens in the film as a reference to Doctor Strange.

• 2:15:18David Sims?

  Of course.

• 2:15:18Griffin Newman?

  Explicitly, right? Originally, he was going to be in one shot, non-speaking.

• 2:15:25Griffin Newman?

  Which is like, very hubristic in the same way we're talking about him like referencing his own movies and pointing at the best example of what he's trying to do.

• 2:15:32David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:15:33Griffin Newman?

  Through a visual reference to one of the actors. And Gail and Zemeckis very smartly were like, hey, Slim Pickens is one of the best character actors alive.

• 2:15:40David Sims?

  Right, you might as well use him.

• 2:15:41Griffin Newman?

  You might as well use him. This entire plotline didn't exist.

• 2:15:45David Sims?

  Uh huh, so that's why it's kind of separate from the movie.

• 2:15:47Griffin Newman?

  Millie has suggested, they were like, we should come up with something for Slim Pickens to do.

• 2:15:51David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:52Griffin Newman?

  And they were like, what if there's a who's on first situation, this guy's.

• 2:15:55David Sims?

  Oh, this would, sure.

• 2:15:56Griffin Newman?

  Right, you can do this whole thing. And it's like, this is the strongest comedic idea in the entire movie. It is the thing they came up with last.

• 2:16:02David Sims?

  He's funny.

• 2:16:03Griffin Newman?

  Basically reverse engineered from having the actor, but it's also the only comedic setup in the movie where I'm like, the game is really clear to me, the stakes are really clear, the interplay is clear, the sort of like culture clash between the two of them. He plays it so well of like being terrified, but also feeling like, what is the patriotic thing to do to how to stay in my ground? And then like interrogating him with prune juice because he swallowed the evidence.

• 2:16:27Speaker 05

  Down his throat is pretty funny.

• 2:16:29Griffin Newman?

  It's just funny. It's like funny. And it's like they landed on it by mistake at the last.

• 2:16:35Speaker 05

  How do they not have him come in at the end though?

• 2:16:37Speaker 02

  It's like an extended sketch that's just like a, like a self-contained and abandoned. It doesn't even actually impact the plot.

• 2:16:43Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:16:43Speaker 02

  Because it's like the compass, they don't get it out of him. So they, they figure out to use, they're like tracking the radio to figure out where Hollywood is, right?

• 2:16:50Speaker 05

  They should have had him at the end, like shit out the com- they should have, they should have, from a toilet perspective, you should have seen the compass coming out of his asshole, I think.

• 2:16:58Speaker 02

  That would have been good. You mentioned, I think that's a great solve. I think we should have seen.

• 2:17:01David Sims?

  Nickel Boys, but from a toilet's perspective.

• 2:17:03Speaker 02

  Shot from a toilet, of a compass falling out of a man's asshole.

• 2:17:08Griffin Newman?

  What if you do an upside down Nickel Boys and you shoot an entire movie from the perspective of a butthole?

• 2:17:12David Sims?

  And Spielberg's like, it has to be in the movie. They're like, the film is unreleasable.

• 2:17:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:17David Sims?

  You have a, a naked asshole shitting on the camera. It's now like an X-rated film. I don't care.

• 2:17:24Speaker 05

  If you got a, if you got a brown compass falling on the camera at the end, I think that that's pretty good.

• 2:17:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Uh, no, I'm just like, you could build the entire movie out of this. Like, there is something better about like, you know, just like a small town guy gets like abducted by like confused Japanese soldiers and they have this weird standoff within a suburb.

• 2:17:45David Sims?

  That's the thing, though. There's half a dozen plotlines in here that probably would make a funny 90 minute, you know, not as big budget movie. And maybe you can like to put two or three of them together and weave it into like a silly farce. And this is just too much.

• 2:17:59Speaker 05

  I've never, Sims, I've never seen you this with like, you're like, uh, you're just like, we just need, it sounds like you want to end this movie itself and end this episode is just too silly for you.

• 2:18:10Griffin Newman?

  Really? You've never seen him like?

• 2:18:12David Sims?

  Every time we've done the podcast.

• 2:18:14Griffin Newman?

  My daily existence.

• 2:18:15David Sims?

  I must end this episode, but no, no, I, but I kind of, that's how I felt about the movie though. The whole time I was just like, and I think.

• 2:18:22Griffin Newman?

  It's a real basta, guys. Let's wrap it up.

• 2:18:24David Sims?

  But I also just feel like I don't usually like these kinds of movies. They're not usually good.

• 2:18:29Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:18:29David Sims?

  Anytime anyone's like, oh, I want to do like my take on it's a mad, mad, mad. I'm like, have you watched it's a mad, mad, mad? It sucks. Yeah, also not very good. Like, is, is there one of those? It has some funny stuff, like, you know, as all these things do. Rat Race has some funny stuff. Rat Race is pretty good, actually.

• 2:18:42Griffin Newman?

  Rat Race, directed by Jerry Zucker.

• 2:18:44David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:45Griffin Newman?

  Rat Race, uh, It's a Mad Bama World gets a lot of juice just out of being the first time someone tried that. And you can even feel it now, like, living in the present and having watched all the things that have attempted to do it. It has a certain energy from like the novelty and the ambition of what they're pulling off.

• 2:19:01David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:02Griffin Newman?

  And it also just like, it, it cast a wide net. They correctly got all the funny people. They let all of them do their funny things. But it is like an incredibly long, misshapen movie.

• 2:19:13David Sims?

  It's like three hours long.

• 2:19:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:19:14David Sims?

  You're just like, all right, enough already.

• 2:19:16Speaker 05

  But also, it's all about separate threads. Like, this, this is confused about what funny it's supposed to be in Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. It doesn't, it isn't like the thing that's gonna make you like. Fall over laughing, but it is like, it knows the type of humor it is, I guess. And this one, it just feels confused.

• 2:19:34Speaker 02

  You also know what you're watching. It's like, oh, they're all trying to get the money. Like, it's like, okay, again, there's, there's a big W with money underneath it. And they're all trying to get it.

• 2:19:43David Sims?

  The setup is incredibly simple and it's just like, now we'll just have sketches, essentially.

• 2:19:47Griffin Newman?

  And they're all on the road, which means they can run into other funny people. But you have the main five threads and you understand them in relation to each other because they're all working towards the same end goal.

• 2:19:57David Sims?

  Weirdest thing about that movie is it's sort of like Spielberg following up Close Encounters even more seriously. It is Stanley Kramer's follow up to Judgment at Nuremberg. Like that he was like, I'll do something silly after this.

• 2:20:06Griffin Newman?

  Right. Starring Spencer Tracy.

• 2:20:08David Sims?

  Which this, you know, should be. And instead it feels like, whatever, like it feels like an epic in search of, you know, more jokes or a plot or a point. I don't like it.

• 2:20:21Griffin Newman?

  I don't either, but I don't hate it. It is just like, it is a confounding object.

• 2:20:26David Sims?

  Like a chore.

• 2:20:28Griffin Newman?

  I did as well.

• 2:20:28David Sims?

  You know, like, kind of like, okay.

• 2:20:30Griffin Newman?

  Not helped by the extra 30 minutes I committed to.

• 2:20:32David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:32Speaker 05

  I want to, I want to watch that now. I want to watch the extended version. Is that, is it not?

• 2:20:36Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you're gonna give it a B minus. Maybe you're gonna like that even more.

• 2:20:39Speaker 05

  Sims, which one did you watch?

• 2:20:41David Sims?

  I watched the, uh, regular version. Um, Mitch, I also feel like you, especially your sort of take on a lot of modern cinema is kind of like, I'm crying out for a Spielberg here. Like as much as, you know, you're, you know, 1941 is flawed, you're just recognizing like, there's craft.

• 2:20:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:20:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:57David Sims?

  And like, that's something that's just missing unless, you know, it's Red One, obviously, which is the best crafted movie. No, I still haven't seen Red One.

• 2:21:03Speaker 02

  It's, it's.

• 2:21:04David Sims?

  I'm gonna watch it.

• 2:21:05Speaker 02

  This is, this is reductive, but movies are, are things that you, you look at and listen to. And at the end of the day, this is directed by Steven Spielberg, the, the DP, whose, whose name I forget, but like had shot a ton of like, like, you know, great movies. And, um.

• 2:21:20David Sims?

  Let me double check. Uh, William Fraker.

• 2:21:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:22David Sims?

  Great, legendary DP.

• 2:21:23Speaker 02

  And, and, and, you know, it's got a John Williams score. I mean, there, there's, it at least has that going for it.

• 2:21:28David Sims?

  Which is good.

• 2:21:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:29David Sims?

  The John Williams score is genuinely.

• 2:21:31Griffin Newman?

  Is genuinely good.

• 2:21:32Speaker 02

  It's got like a lot of Aaron Copland in it and it's.

• 2:21:34David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. It's kind of, I feel like it's on the right side of making fun of itself.

• 2:21:37Griffin Newman?

  Really strong, humable theme, like the, the, the score is more in tune with the humor this movie is attempting than the movie itself.

• 2:21:45David Sims?

  Theory of this film's humor.

• 2:21:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but it's, I mean, it's like, it is fascinating as a sort of like, um.

• 2:21:54Griffin Newman?

  We'll talk about sometimes like, uh, people like, uh, who seemingly walk straight into a cultural cancellation. Where it's like, oh, there's some part of them that wants to be caught.

• 2:22:05David Sims?

  Spurlock?

• 2:22:06Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's, that's the most extreme version of it, right?

• 2:22:09David Sims?

  Alright, I'm sorry, Morgan.

• 2:22:12Speaker 05

  We know, we know, we know, we know.

• 2:22:14Griffin Newman?

  You know, but there's also like the version of people who will sort of like self sabotage a career because they can't handle the pressure.

• 2:22:21David Sims?

  Who, is there someone in particular you're thinking of?

• 2:22:23Griffin Newman?

  Well, you know what? This is the first credited screen appearance. He only appears at the very end is the only moment I clocked him, of Mickey Rourke.

• 2:22:30David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:22:31Griffin Newman?

  And he is someone who talks that way about his 90s.

• 2:22:33David Sims?

  Right. I basically behaved in a way of like, get me out of famous, being famous.

• 2:22:36Griffin Newman?

  But even just what he picked, like the projects he took on and how he behaved on set was partially that like, he could not handle the pressure of everyone being like, you're the new De Niro. You have it, right? Like, we're all looking at you. Um, and I think it's not quite the same thing, but like kinds of kindness. I remember when you walked out, you were like, this is Yorgos being like, I need to fight back against the idea that I'm like automatic prestige guy.

• 2:23:01David Sims?

  Right. Yorgos being like, I am not the next Tim Burton. Fuck you, Jesus Christ.

• 2:23:05Griffin Newman?

  Right. I want to make people angry at me again, so I can like reset the table and still feel transgressive. I do think the way Spielberg talks about the making of this movie and the decision-making process and being like, I just like want to not hold myself to any standard, is like almost consciously him trying to get his biggest flop out of the way so he can move on from it.

• 2:23:25Speaker 05

  I like that.

• 2:23:25David Sims?

  Yeah, maybe there's something to that. And again, he follows it up with his, you know, kind of his two biggest hits, right? Apart from Joe, I mean, I don't know.

• 2:23:33Griffin Newman?

  And like Raiders is arguably his tightest movie.

• 2:23:35David Sims?

  It is. It's his tightest movie in every way and it's storyboarded to hell and it's came in under budget and on time and all that. And it's him being like, I learned my lesson. I'm a good little boy.

• 2:23:45Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:23:45David Sims?

  Before we play the box office game, is there anything else you guys noted in this bloated ass movie that we have not touched on?

• 2:23:51Speaker 05

  Sims, I want to say this, that as much as I say, I do like it and I appreciate it. I did pause the movie and read the entire Wikipedia for Dumbo. During the movie.

• 2:24:01Griffin Newman?

  Hell, yeah.

• 2:24:02Speaker 05

  And then.

• 2:24:02Griffin Newman?

  Much better movie.

• 2:24:03Speaker 05

  And then read the entire Wikipedia for Trumbo because it's sound, it just reminded me of Trumbo.

• 2:24:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:24:08Speaker 05

  So I was very distracted and took like an hour break. I, I thought the second half of the movie, I thought once it gets to the, the zoot suit riot is basically when I, I was like, that was more when I was on board and.

• 2:24:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:22Speaker 05

  All the big spectacle and the house sliding off the Goonies, is it the Goonies Cliff?

• 2:24:26Griffin Newman?

  Cool. I know David is always very skeptical about the notion of fan edits and the fan edit community. I am, yes. Uh, one of our listeners recently emailed us and I scanned through it. I haven't sat down and watched it, but we have our infamous, infamous battle about which half of the holiday is good and which half is bad. Yes. And a listener emailed him was like, I agree with your take. So here is my cut of the holiday that is just the Kate Winslet half of the movie. Uh huh. Where Jude Law and Cameron Diaz never appear on screen. Sure. That cut itself is an hour and 10 minutes, which speaks to how. It's a long ass movie. Yes, but even at the end where the two like crossover, he cut around any time. Oh, so you don't even see them? You never see them. Okay.

• 2:25:08Griffin Newman?

  Um, but this sent me down a rabbit hole of similar, uh, fan edits and there's one guy I found on Reddit. I will, I've been meaning to pass this along to you Mitch, who is advertising that he did a cut of Romulus, where he took out all the dumb fan service callback shit.

• 2:25:22Speaker 05

  Wow, that's interesting.

• 2:25:23Griffin Newman?

  Took out that, took out all the lines and people were like, this is a lot better. I would watch that just because. So then I messaged this guy to get a link to it and he was like, I have a couple other edits you might be interested in. And one was a similar cut of Solo where he did a similar like, take out the dumb fan edit shit.

• 2:25:39Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 2:25:39Griffin Newman?

  Or the dumb fan service shit. Right. And like streamline the story. Right, there's not too much of, right. And he did a cut of Miami Vice that he called Miami Nice. Okay. Where he was like, can you combine the superior aspects of the directors and theatrical? Right. And I'm like, this guy seems really interesting. I like all of his thought experiments. What I want someone, maybe this guy to do next, is do a cut of 1941 where you just put in the entirety of Dumbo. It's a clean. Ha, ha, ha. It's a pretty light lift.

• 2:26:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:10David Sims?

  I'm just watching like the elephant, the mom elephant caress Dumbo while she sings Baby Mine. And I'm just like, animation is so beautiful. And then I'm thinking about like, in 1941, this must have felt like really revolutionary to watch something like this.

• 2:26:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:26David Sims?

  And then we're not watching Dumbo anymore. And I'm like, boring, like back to this shitty movie.

• 2:26:31Speaker 02

  So you can obviously go, you can certainly go full frame with some of the Dumbo. You've got the, you've got some wides of the screen with the theater watching it. You've also got some reaction shots of Robert Stack. I wonder if you have enough to sustain the full movie just between like, kind of, you know, cutting through existence. Which I think probably good.

• 2:26:47David Sims?

  It would be funny if we just cut back to Robert Stack like 80 times. Just like, still good.

• 2:26:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:54Speaker 02

  I was reminded, my, my thing is I was reminded of how good Robert Stack is in Beavis and Butthead Do America.

• 2:26:58Griffin Newman?

  Rules.

• 2:26:58Speaker 02

  So funny.

• 2:26:59David Sims?

  He's good in the movie too.

• 2:27:00Griffin Newman?

  Also like.

• 2:27:01Speaker 02

  He's good in this. He's like the funniest part.

• 2:27:03David Sims?

  He's so funny in Airplane.

• 2:27:04Griffin Newman?

  Like immediately after this, figure out how to use them in comedies properly. He's pretty good in this.

• 2:27:10David Sims?

  He's good in this, but he actually just sort of seems like a serious person who's trying to clean up the mess. And you're like, I support you, Robert Stack, but right, Airplane gets the straight arrow joke with him much better.

• 2:27:20Griffin Newman?

  Uh, I want to call out the, the fan edit redditors, username Straight Cuts No Chaser. And if they tell me that they don't want me saying their username on mic, then I will have this cut out.

• 2:27:30David Sims?

  Sure, I'm sure they would be happy.

• 2:27:32Speaker 05

  I have one, I just have, I have one last, just two last thoughts basically. One, I was like, I liked that it was, I liked that it was lighthearted because there's like sirens going off and it's about the destruction of Hollywood, which is like, if it was a dramatic movie, watching that this week, it probably would feel like too.

• 2:27:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:47David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah, the timing is hard.

• 2:27:50Griffin Newman?

  The other Spielberg movie we watched this week is Always, which is entirely about like forest fires.

• 2:27:55Speaker 05

  Oh, cheerlord.

• 2:27:55Griffin Newman?

  And guys trying to like, uh, extinguish in planes, flaming trees. It's just a weird too Spielberg to watch in a very tragic week for the Los Angeles era.

• 2:28:07Speaker 05

  So I was happy that it was lighthearted. I, I, uh, the end there, I want to ask you guys this. He's like, 42 is gonna be an even bigger year. Were they angling for, was that a sequel angle?

• 2:28:19Speaker 02

  Feels like it.

• 2:28:20David Sims?

  Christ.

• 2:28:21Speaker 02

  It feels like it.

• 2:28:22David Sims?

  That would be, and they, they could watch Bambi.

• 2:28:25Speaker 02

  Oh, that's fun.

• 2:28:26David Sims?

  That was, yeah, yeah. That's just the, the movie is just like the guys who didn't go overseas are just like, should we watch a movie?

• 2:28:32Griffin Newman?

  What an amazing franchise setup to just be like, yeah, we can make one for every year.

• 2:28:36David Sims?

  Yeah, Jesus, we got these years on lock.

• 2:28:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:39Griffin Newman?

  We're like thirty-eight years ahead right now.

• 2:28:41Speaker 05

  Go ahead.

• 2:28:41Speaker 02

  I have two more thing, quick things. Uh, one is, and, and you got, y'all, y'all may have, have the, the factual answer there, but like, so, and this one is fictionalized where the land of Hollywood land is busted off by John Belushi's plane, right?

• 2:28:54David Sims?

  Right. That's not how it happens. The famous Hollywood sign used to say Hollywood land.

• 2:28:58Speaker 02

  Well, my understanding is, cause I always, what I learned is that, that the land was destroyed by the Rocketeer. So, do you know which is true?

• 2:29:07David Sims?

  Uh, boy, that Rocketeer.

• 2:29:08Griffin Newman?

  You're, you're a Rocketeerist.

• 2:29:10Speaker 02

  I'm a Rocketeerist, yeah.

• 2:29:12Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:29:12David Sims?

  Yeah, no, it was definitely, Billy Campbell, is that the Rocketeer?

• 2:29:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, okay. I feel like in the, the movie Hollywood land.

• 2:29:19David Sims?

  The, the Ben Affleck movie.

• 2:29:20Griffin Newman?

  Adrian Brody.

• 2:29:21David Sims?

  And Adrian Brody, right, yeah, yeah.

• 2:29:22Griffin Newman?

  Where they use the like, the, the crumbling of the land as like a metaphor.

• 2:29:28David Sims?

  Darkness.

• 2:29:28Griffin Newman?

  Right, the darkness is so great, this place isn't even a land anymore, it's just an idea. But I feel like they explain in that what actually happened to the letters. What did happen?

• 2:29:39Speaker 02

  I think, uh, Adrian Brody, Adrian Brody in that movie, uh, as Laszlo Toth, uh, takes it down as an architectural, uh, experiment.

• 2:29:47David Sims?

  Yeah, he does.

• 2:29:47Speaker 02

  He pours water on it.

• 2:29:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah, he runs his hang along.

• 2:29:50David Sims?

  There's a Brody verse that, uh, that is slowly building up where his village character unfortunately is, is gonna pop into the.

• 2:29:57Griffin Newman?

  And there's only one man who can stop it.

• 2:29:59Speaker 05

  I have a, I have a buddy who.

• 2:30:00Griffin Newman?

  Private Royce from Predators? Sure.

• 2:30:03David Sims?

  Or what about the mean record executive from Cadillac Records? I was just.

• 2:30:06Griffin Newman?

  Arthur Chess?

• 2:30:07David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:30:08Griffin Newman?

  I think it's Arthur, it's definitely Chess, Leonard Chess.

• 2:30:10David Sims?

  Chess Records.

• 2:30:10Speaker 05

  I have a buddy who confronted the Rocketeer outside of a hotel and he said that he didn't believe that he was the reason that the land went down and he, and he punched.

• 2:30:17Speaker 02

  Oh, he punched it.

• 2:30:18Speaker 05

  The Rocketeer punched him.

• 2:30:19Speaker 02

  That's crazy, yeah. I'm kinda with the Rocketeer there, honestly, like.

• 2:30:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, like, even if it was a thing that he, like, was made up, like, it's still.

• 2:30:26Speaker 02

  You don't confront, leave the man alone, he's an old man, you know?

• 2:30:29Griffin Newman?

  Did you read that op-ed where the Rocketeer said he was voting for Trump?

• 2:30:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:30:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:33David Sims?

  Really disappointing.

• 2:30:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:35David Sims?

  I mean, I guess I should have seen it coming from like an art deco 30s hero. Who's like kind of Ayn Rand coded.

• 2:30:42Griffin Newman?

  And it's also just like, I don't know, he's an old man and like, what's he done recently outside of dancing with the stars?

• 2:30:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:30:48Griffin Newman?

  You know, and punching the guy.

• 2:30:50Speaker 02

  I have one more, I have one more.

• 2:30:51David Sims?

  What's the other?

• 2:30:51Speaker 05

  I heard that he almost, he almost did a movie a few years ago that he was gonna do Red Rocket was actually gonna be Red Rocketeer.

• 2:30:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I did read that.

• 2:31:00David Sims?

  He just didn't want to show dick on screen.

• 2:31:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:31:02David Sims?

  Sean Baker insisted.

• 2:31:04Speaker 05

  What was your other thought?

• 2:31:06David Sims?

  Yeah, what's your other thought?

• 2:31:08Speaker 02

  My, my other thing, going back to Trumbo, fun fact, the Wikipedia.

• 2:31:13David Sims?

  Of course, let's please go back to Trumbo.

• 2:31:15Griffin Newman?

  Gotta go back to the Wikipedia entry for Trumbo was written in a bathtub. All right.

• 2:31:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, of course. There you go. Yeah.

• 2:31:21David Sims?

  Oh, wait, the page itself is wet.

• 2:31:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:24Speaker 05

  By the way, Los Angeles has an idea to, to help battle the fires in the future.

• 2:31:28Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 2:31:28Speaker 05

  They're gonna build a bunch of Sparrows.

• 2:31:32Speaker 05

  That's the face of Christ.

• 2:31:33Speaker 02

  That's good. You know, I actually heard, I heard, I went, I went to Sparrow last week because I was just like, we're dealing with fires out here and it's like, you're kind of like, I just want some trashy food to kind of comfort me. And it's great, all these fast food workers are still on the job. God bless them.

• 2:31:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:48Speaker 02

  So I went to, I went to the Sparrow at the Fox Hills Mall to get myself some comfort food.

• 2:31:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:31:54Speaker 02

  Um, and they're, uh, they're, they're boiling the marinara back there. Uh, in the marinara, uh, is Trumbo with a typewriter in the screenplay.

• 2:32:04David Sims?

  But he's got a mustache and a chef's hat on.

• 2:32:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:32:06David Sims?

  Hey, I'm writing my screenplay. I'm Italian Trumbo over here.

• 2:32:10Griffin Newman?

  Also, I know we finished, we moved on from our Adrian Brody little sidebar.

• 2:32:14David Sims?

  Yeah, but.

• 2:32:14Griffin Newman?

  I don't want to offer spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen The Brutalist yet. You know what my favorite scene was in that movie?

• 2:32:19David Sims?

  What?

• 2:32:20Griffin Newman?

  When they go to Italy and the old guy pours the marinara on the marble.

• 2:32:24Speaker 02

  That is really beautiful, yeah.

• 2:32:26David Sims?

  That was, that was very touching and very sensitive culturally, I found.

• 2:32:30Griffin Newman?

  From Sparrows, of course. You see them go to Sparrows, ask for a cup of marinara, yeah.

• 2:32:34Speaker 05

  I, I went to one of those hydrants that wasn't working and I followed the, I followed it back is where it, I guess where it ended up. Is it Sparrow?

• 2:32:43Speaker 02

  Oh, boy. That's a whole, that's an issue.

• 2:32:46David Sims?

  That was, I think, a part of the issue.

• 2:32:47Griffin Newman?

  I'm really glad you gave us the time to answer Mitch, rather than just telling us.

• 2:32:52David Sims?

  My, my only last thought is that, and this sums up this movie to me.

• 2:32:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:56Speaker 05

  Please.

• 2:32:57David Sims?

  This sums up this movie to me is that when they, when they do the, I mean, I know we've talked about the credits a lot.

• 2:33:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:33:02David Sims?

  But when they do the credits, uh, and, and maybe we've said this already, the explosions we mentioned.

• 2:33:07Speaker 05

  Before the explosions, yeah.

• 2:33:08David Sims?

  Every character they show is just like, ah, they're all screaming.

• 2:33:12Speaker 05

  Just fucking screaming.

• 2:33:14Griffin Newman?

  Clips of everyone screaming.

• 2:33:15David Sims?

  There's no clip of anyone being quiet in this movie that you can find.

• 2:33:19Griffin Newman?

  And can I actually just say one more thing before we play the box office game?

• 2:33:21David Sims?

  Yeah, I think you need to.

• 2:33:23Griffin Newman?

  I forgot to bring this up earlier, but Wiger, when you were saying that this movie has the manic energy of the Waterworld stunt show.

• 2:33:29David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:29Griffin Newman?

  Which can sustain for 20 minutes, but not like a full two hours. Did you hear the rumor that Universal is gonna replace that with a Sparrow World stunt?

• 2:33:42David Sims?

  Again, for any listener who doesn't know what's going on, please listen to Doughboys every week, a wonderful podcast, but especially Griffin's Sparrow's episode.

• 2:33:50Speaker 02

  The Super Nintendo, uh, adaptation of, of Sparrow World actually has an amazing soundtrack. It's weird.

• 2:33:56David Sims?

  Yeah, it does. It does. Yeah. So this film came out, this actually, actually is weird. This film came out at Christmas time. I don't think this is a particularly good Christmas movie.

• 2:34:08Griffin Newman?

  That teaser trailer is balucy going, I'm sure this Christmas.

• 2:34:11Speaker 02

  Then Benny is nailing the wreath at the end when he knocks his house into the, yeah. It's, it's kind of like a, a very light Christmas movie.

• 2:34:18Griffin Newman?

  I also think that like before Spielberg, you know, basically created the modern blockbuster with Jaws in a summer release, Christmas was the number one most desirable release.

• 2:34:28David Sims?

  Christmas is much more wide open. You're right.

• 2:34:31Griffin Newman?

  It was the best launching.

• 2:34:31David Sims?

  All of these movies are big. So it's opening number three.

• 2:34:35Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:34:36David Sims?

  Uh, which is pretty like decent, but you know, as it wasn't like the success they hoped for.

• 2:34:42David Sims?

  And number one at the box office is kind of the biggest play of the year.

• 2:34:48David Sims?

  Sort of. It's a big sci fi movie.

• 2:34:50Griffin Newman?

  It's a big sci fi movie.

• 2:34:51David Sims?

  We've covered it on our Patreon.

• 2:34:52Griffin Newman?

  In 1979, we've covered it on our Patreon. Is it 2010?

• 2:34:56David Sims?

  No.

• 2:34:56Griffin Newman?

  The year we made contact?

• 2:34:57David Sims?

  No.

• 2:34:57Griffin Newman?

  Is it Star Trek: The Motion Picture?

• 2:34:59David Sims?

  That's what it is.

• 2:34:59Griffin Newman?

  Okay, there we go.

• 2:35:00David Sims?

  Star Trek: The Motion Picture, which of course was a television show. They were gonna make Star Trek Phase Two.

• 2:35:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:08David Sims?

  And then Star Wars came out and they were like, fuck, this needs to just be a movie. These are movies now.

• 2:35:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:12David Sims?

  And Star Trek: The Motion Picture arrived and did well, but was also disappointed.

• 2:35:17Griffin Newman?

  But it's also like, almost like if they announced tomorrow that they were greenlighting a $200 million NYPD blue movie with the original cast.

• 2:35:27David Sims?

  Literally, yes. I mean, maybe, okay.

• 2:35:30Griffin Newman?

  It's not, I'm trying to think of a better analog.

• 2:35:32David Sims?

  If X-Files is kind of a good analog, I guess.

• 2:35:35Griffin Newman?

  But, but only if.

• 2:35:35David Sims?

  But they've already done movies of that, like.

• 2:35:37Griffin Newman?

  It would be the X-Files if X-Files didn't have two movies and a revival.

• 2:35:40David Sims?

  Yeah, like, or, yeah, I don't know. I mean, some kind of big cult show.

• 2:35:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it just speaks to.

• 2:35:46David Sims?

  But not the biggest show.

• 2:35:47Griffin Newman?

  How massive the Star Wars Close Encounters effect was, combined with like Trek being the original cult show that lingered.

• 2:35:54Speaker 02

  Real quick, Sim, I know you've covered it on the Patreon, we've, people have heard your take, but Sims, as a Trek-y, what do you think of Star Trek: The Motion Picture?

• 2:36:02David Sims?

  I am a huge fan and huge defender of, as it was known at the time, Star Trek: The Slow Motion Picture. I think it just rocks.

• 2:36:09Griffin Newman?

  Or the motionless picture.

• 2:36:10David Sims?

  Or the motionless picture. I've been, I saw it when I was a kid and I was just very taken with it. It is objectively boring and it is objectively kind of like not very good at, like, the Star Trek stuff. Like, it doesn't really have a really good handle on Kirk and Spock and stuff.

• 2:36:25Griffin Newman?

  It's a great mood piece.

• 2:36:26David Sims?

  But it's such a cool, weird, moody movie and all the visual effects are so cool and I love the story and I always will defend it. But Khan is, you know, episode, you know, Star Trek Two, Wrath of Khan. Is them figuring everything out, like the formula for these movies, Kirk and Spock's dynamic, everything. I mean, I love, I love that movie.

• 2:36:45Speaker 02

  Uh, I want to shout out real quick while we're talking Star Trek, Nicholas Meyer, who is the director of Star Trek 6, the undiscovered country.

• 2:36:51David Sims?

  Yes, of Wrath of Khan.

• 2:36:52Speaker 02

  Wrath of Khan, yeah. It's, uh, but Nicholas Meyer, when I was on the, during the WGA strikes, he was out on the picket lines like every day. I'd see that guy all the time. And, and he's, he's like, you know, he's, he's a, I, I believe it was born in the 40s. So like, you know, he's still out there.

• 2:37:07David Sims?

  He's like in his late 70s. He rocks. I mean, I love him. Rocking me, kind of.

• 2:37:15Griffin Newman?

  David, do you have the, um, the Star Trek, the motion picture soundtrack on vinyl?

• 2:37:20David Sims?

  No, I have, um, Wrath of Khan on vinyl.

• 2:37:23Griffin Newman?

  Okay. I bought it and then a better version came out. I'll give you the old version, the less good version. Second thing, this episode's coming out on February 2nd.

• 2:37:30David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:37:31Griffin Newman?

  Yesterday, February 1st on our Patreon, we finished the Jelly trilogy content.

• 2:37:35David Sims?

  Uh huh. And we're about to start the next generation.

• 2:37:38Griffin Newman?

  We're, we're about to start doing all the Picard movies.

• 2:37:41David Sims?

  Wow.

• 2:37:41Griffin Newman?

  Very excited for that.

• 2:37:42David Sims?

  Yeah. All four of them, there's only four, but then we have a little treat for number, for movie five.

• 2:37:47Griffin Newman?

  We can say it.

• 2:37:48David Sims?

  Yeah, Galaxy Quest.

• 2:37:49Griffin Newman?

  Galaxy, we're tackling Galaxy Quest on.

• 2:37:50David Sims?

  Why not?

• 2:37:51Griffin Newman?

  Why not?

• 2:37:51David Sims?

  Why not? Now, but listen to this, box office game, guys.

• 2:37:54Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 2:37:54David Sims?

  1941 is opening number three. No, I'm just saying, I didn't know this until now.

• 2:37:57Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 2:37:58David Sims?

  This is devastating for 1941. Number two at the box office, new this week, opening against 1941, is one of the best comedies of the 70s.

• 2:38:07Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:38:07David Sims?

  And like a shot out of a cannon, holy shit, like movie star moment.

• 2:38:11Griffin Newman?

  Is it The Jerk?

• 2:38:12David Sims?

  It's Steve Martin in The Jerk.

• 2:38:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that is devastating.

• 2:38:15David Sims?

  So like, that movie is what, 85 minutes long or whatever? You know what I mean? Like, and like so fucking funny.

• 2:38:20Griffin Newman?

  A guy who had never been in movies before, probably cost what, $5 million?

• 2:38:23David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. It cost no money.

• 2:38:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:25David Sims?

  And just like, it cost $4 million and made 100.

• 2:38:29Griffin Newman?

  Right. And it's just like two generations of comedic geniuses, Carl Reiner and like Steve Martin, just building a perfect comedy out of nothing.

• 2:38:36David Sims?

  Right. So like, that's tough for 1941. Where it's like, I can just go see The Jerk. Like, that's much better.

• 2:38:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:42David Sims?

  Number four at the box office.

• 2:38:43Griffin Newman?

  And Jerk handily outgrossed it.

• 2:38:44David Sims?

  Yep. By far. Um, number four is also a kind of 1941-esque movie, but it's a very serious war masterpiece.

• 2:38:53Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 2:38:54David Sims?

  But it's also an out of control.

• 2:38:57Griffin Newman?

  Is it Apocalypse Now?

• 2:38:58David Sims?

  Apocalypse Now.

• 2:38:59Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:39:00David Sims?

  So you could also just go see the real thing.

• 2:39:02Speaker 05

  Oh my god, that's insane.

• 2:39:04David Sims?

  Just fucking go see Apocalypse Now if you want to see a bloated, amazing war epic.

• 2:39:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:09David Sims?

  Can I, can I? Number five.

• 2:39:10Speaker 05

  Can I quickly interject here? Isn't it weird that Billy Corgan doesn't sing about 1941 and 1979?

• 2:39:17Speaker 02

  Uh, that's a great.

• 2:39:18David Sims?

  Like, the movie?

• 2:39:18Speaker 02

  It is weird.

• 2:39:19David Sims?

  He should, he should be like.

• 2:39:20Speaker 02

  Great note Mitch, yeah, cool, cause.

• 2:39:22David Sims?

  Hot take, that movie is good, something like that?

• 2:39:26Griffin Newman?

  I give it a C. Corgan's hard to do.

• 2:39:31Griffin Newman?

  Ah. That's a little Corgan, right? Ah. 1979.

• 2:39:37Speaker 05

  Wiger and I will do it occasionally.

• 2:39:38Griffin Newman?

  That's good Mitch.

• 2:39:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was good.

• 2:39:40Griffin Newman?

  That was a good Corgan.

• 2:39:41David Sims?

  Corgs.

• 2:39:42Speaker 05

  But he should have sang about 1941.

• 2:39:43Speaker 02

  It's his favorite year, but he should have sang about another year.

• 2:39:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:39:46David Sims?

  Let's go see 1941.

• 2:39:48Speaker 05

  Like, that should have been in the song.

• 2:39:49Griffin Newman?

  Let's go see 1941.

• 2:39:52Speaker 02

  It sounded like Cartman.

• 2:39:55Griffin Newman?

  Get some cheesy poofs.

• 2:39:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, you know what? He should have sang it like Cartman too, honestly.

• 2:40:00David Sims?

  He should, why didn't he sing it like Cartman?

• 2:40:03Griffin Newman?

  Can I throw out a big take?

• 2:40:04David Sims?

  Like, what if Rick Rubin started doing that when he's like brought in as like, you know, a big budget producer for a new record? He's like, you should sing it like Cartman?

• 2:40:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:11David Sims?

  That's my one note.

• 2:40:12Griffin Newman?

  More butters, less Timmy. I feel like South Park has strayed away from its real core, which is cheesy poofs. I feel like they barely mention cheesy poofs anymore.

• 2:40:23David Sims?

  I have not seen South Park in like 15 years.

• 2:40:25Speaker 05

  Oh, it's still.

• 2:40:25Griffin Newman?

  I'll tell you what you haven't missed, cheesy poofs content.

• 2:40:27David Sims?

  Oh shit. Number five, I just wanna, so you know, we've got Star Trek, The Jerk, 1941, Apocalypse Now. Number five is a, is a hit movie.

• 2:40:37Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:40:38David Sims?

  But it's also a number movie, much like now. So 1941's even getting outboxed in the number title realm.

• 2:40:45Griffin Newman?

  Is it a year as well?

• 2:40:47David Sims?

  No, it's just a number.

• 2:40:48Griffin Newman?

  It's just a number. Is it 10?

• 2:40:50David Sims?

  It's 10. Blake Edwards is 10 with Dudley Moore and Bo Derek.

• 2:40:55Griffin Newman?

  Another, dare I say it, and I know this term has been retired, but I think it applies too directly for this film.

• 2:41:00David Sims?

  Big fat.

• 2:41:01Griffin Newman?

  It is a big titted hit.

• 2:41:02David Sims?

  Big titted.

• 2:41:02Griffin Newman?

  10 is a big titted hit and is another low blow to open against two comedies that are really sticking with the culture.

• 2:41:09David Sims?

  I've never seen 10.

• 2:41:10Griffin Newman?

  I haven't either, I just know it's got big boobs on it.

• 2:41:12David Sims?

  You guys seen 10?

• 2:41:13Speaker 02

  I saw it, I saw it many years ago. I remember it being like, kind of like.

• 2:41:17David Sims?

  Mitch is like, now wait a second, it's one and then a zero, that's what I put into Google?

• 2:41:21Speaker 02

  Mitch has turned into Zemeckis here.

• 2:41:25David Sims?

  You've seen it.

• 2:41:26Speaker 02

  I saw it many years ago. I remember, I just, I think I remember just like, cause I, I knew, I liked Dudley Moore. And so, but I don't, I think it might've been, I might've been too young for like the comedy, but like the right age for the raunch. Memory serves.

• 2:41:40David Sims?

  Right, right, of course.

• 2:41:42Griffin Newman?

  Always the right age for the raunch. It's funny that the setup for that movie is Dudley Moore, who is two foot negative six inches, is married to Julie Andrews.

• 2:41:53David Sims?

  Statue of woman.

• 2:41:54Griffin Newman?

  They go on vacation and he sees a younger woman who is so fucking hot that the movie is basically like cheat on your wife.

• 2:42:01David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:42:02Griffin Newman?

  And Blake Edwards was married to Julie Andrews.

• 2:42:08David Sims?

  Also at the box office, we've got End Justice for All, the Pacino movie.

• 2:42:11Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:42:12David Sims?

  Which is silly.

• 2:42:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:13David Sims?

  Uh, but you know, not bad.

• 2:42:15Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:42:15David Sims?

  Uh, you've got the film Starting Over, which is the Burt Reynolds sort of romantic dramedy with Jill Clayberg.

• 2:42:22Griffin Newman?

  That's a good movie.

• 2:42:23David Sims?

  Uh, pretty good movie.

• 2:42:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:25David Sims?

  Kind of one of his more serious, like actually pretty good movies. Uh, you've got The Rose with Bette Midler.

• 2:42:30Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:42:31David Sims?

  Uh, which was her kind of breakout, Mark Riedel film.

• 2:42:34Griffin Newman?

  Playing not Janis Joplin.

• 2:42:35David Sims?

  You're playing a Janis Joplin-esque diva.

• 2:42:37Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:42:38David Sims?

  You've got, uh, the, uh, The Black Stallion with Mickey Rooney.

• 2:42:41Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:42:42David Sims?

  That got him the like late in life Oscar nom.

• 2:42:44Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:42:44David Sims?

  Never seen.

• 2:42:45Griffin Newman?

  Me neither, actually. Yeah. I saw the, or Carol Ballard did the remake, right?

• 2:42:50David Sims?

  Uh, it's Carol Ballard.

• 2:42:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I, I saw that.

• 2:42:52David Sims?

  No, that's this one. That's this one.

• 2:42:54Griffin Newman?

  Oh, wait, then who did the?

• 2:42:56David Sims?

  I don't fucking know.

• 2:42:56Griffin Newman?

  There's the nineties black stallion.

• 2:42:59David Sims?

  Uh, yes, there is.

• 2:43:01Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:43:01David Sims?

  I.

• 2:43:01Griffin Newman?

  Carol Ballard did the.

• 2:43:02David Sims?

  Is it just about a, a horse? Like, what does it do?

• 2:43:05Speaker 02

  Can I, can I, look, I, I, I know I flopped with my R1 movies cursed earlier. Like, I know that didn't, that didn't take. How, how about this? Are horse movies cursed?

• 2:43:17Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 2:43:18David Sims?

  You mean like it has to be like, because there's lots of movies with horses in them.

• 2:43:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, but like a movie centered on a horse.

• 2:43:24David Sims?

  Spirit stars.

• 2:43:25Griffin Newman?

  Horse in the title.

• 2:43:27David Sims?

  Spirit, Stallion of the Cimarron.

• 2:43:28Griffin Newman?

  We don't like War Horse. You and I both put that pretty low on our Spirit rankings.

• 2:43:32David Sims?

  I'm not a big fan of War Horse.

• 2:43:32Griffin Newman?

  What's the best movie with the horse in the title? Never saw Dreamer.

• 2:43:37David Sims?

  That's my favorite line in the movie Hamlet 2.

• 2:43:39Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:43:40David Sims?

  When, when he's introducing Kim, uh, what's her name? Uh, what's your fucking name?

• 2:43:45Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 2:43:46David Sims?

  Elizabeth Shue.

• 2:43:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:43:47David Sims?

  And he's like trying to get the kids excited about Elizabeth Shue and they're like, they don't know who she is. And he's like, Dreamer with a fucking horse! It always makes me laugh.

• 2:43:54Griffin Newman?

  Spirit, I haven't seen Spirit Running Free or whatever the recent one was called. The original Spirit is very well animated and a bit of a snooze.

• 2:44:01David Sims?

  I've been thinking about showing Spirit to my daughter because it seems kind of chill.

• 2:44:05Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say. It, it's a perfect, like, that age movie. But no, I think, Wiger, you might have redeemed yourself with this take.

• 2:44:13Speaker 02

  Hidalgo, do we like Hidalgo?

• 2:44:15Griffin Newman?

  No one likes Hidalgo.

• 2:44:17Speaker 05

  I said Sea Biscuit right off the bat. You didn't respond to a Sea Biscuit.

• 2:44:21David Sims?

  Oh, Sea Biscuit, interesting.

• 2:44:23Speaker 02

  Sea Biscuit's like as good as you can get. That's like, that's like the ceiling for a horse movie. And that movie's mostly not about the horse.

• 2:44:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but does anyone give a shit about, uh, what was the other fucking, the Malkovich one called?

• 2:44:35Speaker 02

  They made a Secretariat movie.

• 2:44:36Griffin Newman?

  Secretariat!

• 2:44:37David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, that one's even worse. Sea Biscuit's not bad.

• 2:44:39Griffin Newman?

  Sea Biscuit's alright.

• 2:44:40David Sims?

  Number 10 of the box office is-

• 2:44:42Griffin Newman?

  This is a pretty good take, Wiger.

• 2:44:43David Sims?

  It looks like it's a re-release of a George P. Cosmodas movie called Sin or Restless starring Raquel Welsh. This is not important.

• 2:44:50Griffin Newman?

  Weird.

• 2:44:51David Sims?

  Uh, anyway, that's the box office game for 1941. And I just think it illustrates how badly its lunch is getting eaten by better movies. And like next week Kramer vs. Kramer comes out.

• 2:45:02Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:45:02David Sims?

  Which is like one of the biggest movies of that year.

• 2:45:04Griffin Newman?

  Isn't it number one?

• 2:45:05David Sims?

  It certainly is up there and it wins the Oscar and all that. So it's sort of like-

• 2:45:08Speaker 05

  I've never seen Kramer vs. Kramer. I think it's coming to the Vista. Never seen it. I know. Blind spot.

• 2:45:13David Sims?

  It's good. It's dated, but it's like a very watchable movie.

• 2:45:16Griffin Newman?

  I think the sequel's better.

• 2:45:17David Sims?

  Go ahead.

• 2:45:18Griffin Newman?

  Kramer vs. Kramer vs. Matlock vs. Infini-

• 2:45:22David Sims?

  The fuck is that?

• 2:45:24Griffin Newman?

  Someone's behind on Doobles.

• 2:45:26David Sims?

  Oh, am I? I am because I got addicted to ban-splain.

• 2:45:29Griffin Newman?

  I transmuted the joke a bit. You've been addicted to ban-splain.

• 2:45:32David Sims?

  Yeah, I'm listening to her Britpop series.

• 2:45:34Griffin Newman?

  I turned it to verses, of course, and Mitch's original joke, the purity of it is that they meet. They don't fight, they meet.

• 2:45:40Speaker 05

  I appreciate you, Griff, even making a joke off of that joke, which I think no one liked when I said.

• 2:45:46Griffin Newman?

  It's a good joke. It's a good joke. I like it the more it has to be explained.

• 2:45:51Speaker 05

  How about Kramer versus Kramer versus Kramer? And then a Seinfeld movie underneath it. How's that?

• 2:45:57Griffin Newman?

  That's fine.

• 2:45:58David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:45:58Griffin Newman?

  Or what about Kramer versus Kramer? Yeah, I like it. Yeah, you could do Kramer versus Kramer versus Kramer versus The Laugh Factory.

• 2:46:08David Sims?

  So are just, what are Hoffman and Streep doing in that movie?

• 2:46:12Speaker 05

  They're there.

• 2:46:13Griffin Newman?

  They're, they're like on the stand.

• 2:46:16David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:46:16Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 2:46:17David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 2:46:18Griffin Newman?

  And she's like crying about the wall with the clouds in the boys' bedroom.

• 2:46:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:46:23Griffin Newman?

  And.

• 2:46:23David Sims?

  Then we just cut to Richard's.

• 2:46:25Griffin Newman?

  No, they're onstage, all of them are onstage at The Laugh Factory. But she's like on the witness stand and then Michael Richard's.

• 2:46:32David Sims?

  It's just like, the movie is just happening.

• 2:46:33Griffin Newman?

  Saying slurs and Dustin Hoffman's like, aren't you supposed to be defending me?

• 2:46:37David Sims?

  You know what's still crazy?

• 2:46:38Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 2:46:38David Sims?

  Michael Richard's doing that shit.

• 2:46:40Griffin Newman?

  Can I say?

• 2:46:41David Sims?

  It's so crazy.

• 2:46:42Griffin Newman?

  I, at least once a year, watch the Seinfeld on Letterman.

• 2:46:48Speaker 05

  Oh, we were talking about this. That's a surreal bit of TV.

• 2:46:51Griffin Newman?

  Stop laughing, it's not funny.

• 2:46:53Speaker 05

  We were just talking about this the other day. Probably with the similar people you were talking to about it, I'm sure.

• 2:46:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, probably. I watch it so much. It's so fascinating because it is like the last moment culturally where the news travels slowly enough that the studio audience hasn't heard it.

• 2:47:11David Sims?

  Right, they haven't actually heard it, they might have heard about it.

• 2:47:14Griffin Newman?

  Well, no, no.

• 2:47:14David Sims?

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 2:47:15Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing, they start laughing because they think it's a comedic setup.

• 2:47:18David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:47:18Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, today if that happened, it would hit the internet so fast.

• 2:47:22David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:22Griffin Newman?

  That the night before, anyone going in to see Letterman would have heard this already. And this like taping happening 12 hours after the event

• 2:47:33Speaker 05

  That's.

• 2:47:33Griffin Newman?

  was a little too fast for people to have context.

• 2:47:36Speaker 05

  I was saying it's the last new laughs at Kramer. Kramer never gets up more, the new, new fresh laughs never happen with Kramer ever again after that moment.

• 2:47:44Griffin Newman?

  That is, that is, I think that's right.

• 2:47:48Speaker 05

  It's the truth. It's the truth.

• 2:47:50Griffin Newman?

  I think, no, I think it's right.

• 2:47:52Speaker 05

  It was worth it.

• 2:47:52David Sims?

  We are done.

• 2:47:53Griffin Newman?

  We're done?

• 2:47:54David Sims?

  We're done with 1941.

• 2:47:55Griffin Newman?

  Guys, thank you so much.

• 2:47:56David Sims?

  You guys did a great job.

• 2:47:57Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you so much for having us.

• 2:47:59Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 2:48:00Speaker 02

  Just said, it's great. I'm so glad you're doing the first half of Spielberg's filmography. And yeah, it's a really, always, again, always such a treat to come on the podcast.

• 2:48:09David Sims?

  I think we'll do it, we'll do an in-person episode this year.

• 2:48:12Griffin Newman?

  I think so too.

• 2:48:13David Sims?

  If you guys are in New York, you know, at some point this year, it'd be great to finally cut it up IR.

• 2:48:18Speaker 02

  It almost happened.

• 2:48:19Speaker 05

  It's gonna happen.

• 2:48:20Speaker 02

  It almost happened.

• 2:48:21Griffin Newman?

  It almost happened.

• 2:48:21David Sims?

  It's gonna happen.

• 2:48:23Griffin Newman?

  You guys got some live shows scheduled in the area and we have our designs on it. And hopefully by the time, yeah, we know far enough out on the schedule what we can.

• 2:48:31David Sims?

  We'll figure it out.

• 2:48:32Griffin Newman?

  It'll be, it'll be in-person to commemorate you guys joining the Five Timers Club.

• 2:48:36Speaker 02

  Oh, that's fun.

• 2:48:38Speaker 05

  Do we get jackets? Like SNL, do we get jackets or anything or no?

• 2:48:40David Sims?

  Fuck yeah. I guess we'll get some jackets.

• 2:48:42Speaker 05

  Fuck you.

• 2:48:45Speaker 05

  We're gonna do a pizza tour in Connecticut. We're very excited. Also, it's, oh, we have a big text that Blank Dough. Where I, where I, where I, we get to get your movie takes, uh, we bother, we bother you and ask you for your movie takes every day on the daily.

• 2:48:58Griffin Newman?

  Well, and vice versa, and especially the takes we don't want to say on mic. I will say, I did a show with Tammy Sager. A frequent guest on your show, great person, upcoming guest on our show if everything works out.

• 2:49:12Griffin Newman?

  But I did a show with her and she came up to me backstage and said, what are the three most recent texts in Blank Dough? That was the first thing she said. I want to see what the last three texts were.

• 2:49:22Speaker 05

  And was it you guys explaining the end of The Brutalist to me? Because it was pretty helpful, honestly. It made me like the ending more.

• 2:49:27Speaker 02

  That was peak performance from the Blank Dough thread when we're all talking about.

• 2:49:31David Sims?

  We were doing a good job.

• 2:49:32Speaker 02

  That was pretty.

• 2:49:33Griffin Newman?

  It was the, it was the.

• 2:49:34Speaker 02

  Raw throwing haymakers in there.

• 2:49:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, absolutely. It was, it was us at its peak. Yeah.

• 2:49:39Speaker 02

  Um, can I shout?

• 2:49:39Griffin Newman?

  And someday we'll create the mutual million dollar Patreon tier where you get to read that text. We will only ever make it public if it's one million dollars per person.

• 2:49:50David Sims?

  You get to join the thread. You can't participate.

• 2:49:52Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:49:53David Sims?

  You can watch. Yeah, exactly.

• 2:49:54Speaker 02

  Can I, can I shout out Griffin real quick? Griffin, I don't know if you have a Steelbook related nickname yet. I would.

• 2:50:01Griffin Newman?

  I don't.

• 2:50:01Speaker 02

  I would pitch the Man of Steel, uh, but, uh, you know, you could also be a, a Green Book riff for the Steelbook. I don't know. It's a, what, I'll, I'll just whatever you want to, want to run with there, but.

• 2:50:11Griffin Newman?

  I like Man of Steel books. Yeah.

• 2:50:12Speaker 02

  The Man of Steel books, uh, Griffin Newman.

• 2:50:14Speaker 05

  Do you like that over the Steelbook?

• 2:50:17Speaker 02

  Steelbook unclear what it's referencing and what it's referencing is a bad movie. The, uh, the, the man of steelbook, uh, connected me with like, like the site you sent me to did not feel like an actual retailer. But the Ninja Scroll Blu-ray, which, uh, the, the steelbook, which was in very limited release and I, my, my preorder got canceled. I was like, Griffin, yeah, I'm in a jam here. You gotta help me out here.

• 2:50:40Griffin Newman?

  Right. You had preorder from Crunchyroll and then they ran out and I went to my Blu-ray message boards and was like, this seems to be a recurring problem. I'm gonna dig into who people say, cause at this point, everyone else had sold out of it.

• 2:50:52Speaker 02

  And the URL you sent me was like-

• 2:50:52Griffin Newman?

  And I think I sent you to Bull Moose?

• 2:50:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, whatever it was, it was like one of those weird like Estonian sites that like illegally streams NBA games, you know, that you find. That's just like, it was such a weird vent, like, like website that actually delivered and actually had, uh, you know, I, I got, I ended up getting my steelbook. So I, I really appreciate that money.

• 2:51:10David Sims?

  You got your steelbook?

• 2:51:11Speaker 02

  I did, yeah.

• 2:51:12David Sims?

  Yeah, this is why, uh-

• 2:51:13Griffin Newman?

  The way you told me-

• 2:51:14David Sims?

  This is why Natalie's had to go back long before the fires started.

• 2:51:20Griffin Newman?

  The way you confirmed that the steelbook had arrived successfully been delivered was you took a picture of your hand holding it and just wrote in all caps, Griffin Newman has a 10-inch cock.

• 2:51:34Griffin Newman?

  And I said, that is the coolest way anyone has ever been given credit for knowing which e-tailers to get steelbooks from.

• 2:51:44Speaker 02

  I stand by that.

• 2:51:45Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. A deeply dorky thing. Um, no, but it was, it was a, I was, I was happy to do that mitzvah and you guys are, are the best. It's always a treat.

• 2:51:53Speaker 02

  Griffin is hung like Seabiscuit.

• 2:51:56David Sims?

  Alright.

• 2:51:57Speaker 02

  Jesus.

• 2:51:58David Sims?

  I'm seeing here, Seabiscuit had a famously small penis for a horse?

• 2:52:02Griffin Newman?

  God damn it.

• 2:52:06David Sims?

  He could run real fast.

• 2:52:08Griffin Newman?

  I called him Seap peanut in the locker room. Anything you guys want to plug outside of Doughboys at large?

• 2:52:16Speaker 05

  1941, you should check it out.

• 2:52:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, check out 1941.

• 2:52:18Griffin Newman?

  Plug 1941.

• 2:52:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, Doughboys podcast about chain restaurants. Me and Mike Mitchell, Sims and Griffin have both been on. If you haven't listened, Good Jumpin' On Points, available in recent memory.

• 2:52:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:52:29Speaker 02

  And people should watch Mitch's show on Peacock. Twisted Metal, Mitch plays Stu in Twisted Metal. Twisted Metal is really funny and it's got a lot of good action. And you know what? It succeeds as an action comedy in a way that 1941 doesn't, so.

• 2:52:44Griffin Newman?

  I would strongly agree with that. And season two is coming out sometime this year?

• 2:52:48Speaker 05

  Season two is coming out sometime this year, yes, for sure.

• 2:52:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:50Speaker 05

  It needed more candy. Oh, go ahead, sorry, Griff.

• 2:52:53Griffin Newman?

  No, no, what were you gonna say?

• 2:52:54Speaker 05

  It needed, we talked about this a little bit, but 1941 needed more candy.

• 2:52:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, it needed more candy.

• 2:52:58Speaker 05

  It needed more candy.

• 2:52:59Griffin Newman?

  Need more candy. No, I was just gonna say, not to force your guys' hand, you're calling out that you've had Sims and I on the show a couple of times. The person you gotta get on Doughboys is Mr. Ben Hosley.

• 2:53:14Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:53:15Griffin Newman?

  That is true. I think there is a real, like, kinda heater of an episode untapped. I mean, it would be a huge. The next time Ben's in Los Angeles. It would be a huge honor. Yeah. For sure, yeah, let's make it happen. He's got opinions.

• 2:53:30Speaker 02

  Ben, you were great on, I loved your PTR episode. So, yeah, definitely, next time you're in LA, we'll figure it out.

• 2:53:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, yeah, come on.

• 2:53:36Griffin Newman?

  All right.

• 2:53:36Speaker 05

  I mean, it's not gonna be fun for you, Ben, but come on, come do it.

• 2:53:42Griffin Newman?

  All right, I get some for three.

• 2:53:45Griffin Newman?

  Thank you, guys, for doing this. Thank you all for listening. Tune in next week for Let Me See, another stinker from Steven Spielberg, Raiders of the Lost Ark.

• 2:53:53Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:53:53Griffin Newman?

  It is just, I say at the beginning of that episode, it's one of the greatest comeback movies of all time, if not the undisputed greatest. We recorded that episode with the great. Brian Michael Bendis.

• 2:54:03Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:54:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, legendary comics writer. Yep. Yeah. An Indiana Jones superfan. So tune in for that, as we said, Next Generation, Picard, Trek movies coming up on Patreon. That's right, we'll start off with Generations. But also February 11th, doing Spielberg TV movies. Yeah, Something Evil. And Wicked. Yeah. Isn't that what, Savage? Savage, not Wicked.

• 2:54:26David Sims?

  Anyway.

• 2:54:26Griffin Newman?

  I had Wicked on the brain.

• 2:54:27David Sims?

  It's kind of just a, yeah, damp ending, but yep, that's true.

• 2:54:31Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and as always, that ending was so damp. I briefly mistook it for a Subaru.

• 2:54:38David Sims?

  Should I put pepperoni on it?

• 2:54:47David Sims?

  Sims, when's your out? Oh, whatever.

• 2:54:50Griffin Newman?

  Great question.

• 2:54:50David Sims?

  Okay. I mean, I'd love to be done by, in two hours, but we'll see. I mean, this movie is less... Casey just laughed at that.

• 2:54:59David Sims?

  Come on. This movie is not weighty enough, you know? Right, yes. There's plenty to discuss, obviously, but it's not like a, wow, but wait a second, wait a second, you know, like where it's like fucking Jaws and you're like, did we, you know, Did we do a justice, yeah. Forget one of the 10 most famous movie sequences of all time, you know, or whatever, like it's...

• 2:55:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the Jaws episode, we forgot to talk about like half of his teeth. We only covered the top half.

• 2:55:26David Sims?

  What's the quote?

• 2:55:28Griffin Newman?

  Fuck, I'm trying to find that.

• 2:55:32David Sims?

  Yes, it does.

• 2:55:33Speaker 05

  Oh, we're gonna talk about that, Emma.

• 2:55:38David Sims?

  A subtle tip of the cap. Yeah, very subtle.

• 2:55:44Speaker 05

  More horny, though.

• 2:55:45Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:55:46Speaker 05

  I like that aspect.

• 2:55:47Griffin Newman?

  Is it a little horny or...

• 2:55:48David Sims?

  This is gold, Griffin. We're missing this great gold.

• 2:55:50Griffin Newman?

  Hold on, hold on.

• 2:55:53David Sims?

  That's true, that's true. We're recording it.