#236 Dr. Diane Hennacy - From 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 30: Why Autism Is Rising Faster Than Ever

Dr. Diane Hennacy is a Johns Hopkins-trained neuropsychiatrist, author, public speaker, and independent researcher exploring the intersection of science, consciousness, and anomalous phenomena like telepathy and psychic abilities. With over 30 years of clinical experience, she has served on the faculty at Harvard Medical School and participated in think tanks on human consciousness at the Salk Institute. Hennacy’s groundbreaking work bridges rigorous scientific inquiry with mysteries of the mind, including studies on autism, savant syndrome, and potential links to extrasensory perception (ESP). Her bestselling book, The ESP Enigma: The Scientific Case for Psychic Phenomena (2009), presents evidence from neuroscience, quantum physics, and case studies to explain psychic experiences. A student of ancient wisdom traditions and an award-winning clinician, she has spoken at international scientific conferences, the United Nations, and venues like TEDx, advocating for open-minded exploration of human potential and consciousness. Hennacy, who also held the title of Miss Oregon Senior America 2017, continues her research through the Hennacy Institute for Consciousness Research, emphasizing integrative medicine and the evolution of human awareness. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://americanfinancing.net/srs NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 866-781-8900, for details about credit costs and terms. https://tryarmra.com/srs https://aura.com/srs https://betterhelp.com/srs This episode is sponsored. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/srs and get on your way to being your best self. https://bubsnaturals.com – USE CODE SHAWN https://shawnlikesgold.com https://mypatriotsupply.com/srs https://patriotmobile.com/srs https://ROKA.com – USE CODE SRS https://shopify.com/srs https://trueclassic.com/srs https://USCCA.com/srs Dr. Diane Hennacy Links: Website - https://drdianehennacy.com X - https://x.com/drhennacy41125 Buy The ESP Enigma - https://drdianehennacy.com/purchase-esp-enigma Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  On October 2nd.

• 0:04Speaker 00

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  Tom Cruise is.

• 0:10Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 0:16Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped doing it? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

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  With great power comes great deniability.

• 0:24Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not admitted without parent.

• 0:30Speaker 04

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• 0:40Speaker 05

  Espolone Tequila. 40% alcohol by volume. 80% proof. Copyright 2026. Compendia America, New York, New York. Drink responsibly.

• 0:50Shawn Ryan?

  Diane Hennessy, welcome to the show.

• 0:53Speaker 07

  Thank you. It's a pleasure.

• 0:55Shawn Ryan?

  I've been looking forward to this one. So, we're gonna talk about all of your research that went into the telepathy tapes and and then we started going down more and saw that you were into some of the researching, some of the ESP, remote viewing, your book, you know, and all that stuff. And I've interviewed a bunch of these guys, and women. Angela Ford, Joe McMonigal, Sean Webb, Skip Atwater, Edwin May. If I'm forgetting anyone, please forgive me, but, but we've been on a roll with this and it's just something that caught my attention about, probably about two, three years ago. And just a fascinating subject, so I'm really excited to have, to have you here.

• 1:40Shawn Ryan?

  So, thank you for coming.

• 1:41Speaker 07

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:42Shawn Ryan?

  But, all right, so everybody starts off with an introduction here.

• 1:48Shawn Ryan?

  Ready? Let me know if I'm missing anything. I'm sure I am.

• 1:53Shawn Ryan?

  Dr. Diane Hennessy, a Johns Hopkins-trained neuropsychiatrist with over thirty years of clinical experience, served on the faculty at Harvard Medical School, a member of a think-tank on human consciousness at the Salk Institute. What is the Salk Institute?

• 2:09Speaker 07

  It's an institute that, it's a scientific institute in San Diego.

• 2:14Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, a lot of famous people have been there, named after Jonas Salk.

• 2:19Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. An integrative medical doctor, psychotherapist, and public speaker who bridges rigorous science with explorations of extraordinary human abilities, including psychic phenomenon. Author of "The ESP Enigma: The Scientific Case for Psychic Phenomena", a book that examines the neuroscience behind ESP and telepathy. A pioneering researcher, known for studying telepathic communication in non-verbal autistic individuals and savants. A co-founder of human rights initiatives, a student of ancient wisdom traditions, and an advocate for expanding our understanding of human potential through evidence-based

• 3:01Shawn Ryan?

  inquiry. The primary expert whose research was featured in the Telepathy Tapes podcast. Am I missing anything?

• 3:09Speaker 07

  Oh, there's, there's a lot more. I mean, I've, I've also done a lot of work in PTSD.

• 3:17Shawn Ryan?

  Have you really?

• 3:18Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:18Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man, well, we should definitely talk about that, because we talk about that more than any other subject on the show.

• 3:24Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 3:25Shawn Ryan?

  So, yeah, you know, when I started this, it was all, um, I don't know if you know much about me, I was a former Navy SEAL and CIA contractor, and so when I started this, I was bringing on all my colleagues and talk about their life stories, and we always, we always end with, with getting over PTS, traumatic brain injuries, stuff like that, and we, we explore lots of different avenues, um, too.

• 3:51Shawn Ryan?

  Try to get out of that, out of that, you know, pattern. And so, yeah, I would love to chat with you about that stuff at the end. What got you into PTSD?

• 4:02Speaker 07

  Well, when I first went into private practice, autism was so rare that when I hung my shingle and said, I'm a neuropsychiatrist with expertise in autism, there wasn't enough of it to fill my practice. But what happened was is that there were all of these women who had been sexually abused as children, who were really frustrated by their experience with the psychiatrist that they were seeing, who didn't really understand their, you know, really didn't understand why they were so traumatized and just wanted to medicate them. And I quickly gained the reputation as somebody who would actually

• 4:46Speaker 07

  approach them with compassion and care and really try to help them. And so what happened is, is that I became an expert on severe trauma. Because, I mean, some of these women had their own parents sort of sending them off to have sex with strangers. I mean, you know, basically pimping them out when they're three, four, or five years old. And it's such a betrayal that they, it's really, we can, we can live with the trauma from a natural disaster, like a hurricane that comes moving through or an earthquake, because we, you know, that doesn't really, I mean,

• 5:30Speaker 07

  it traumatizes us to lose, lose loved ones and et cetera. But when you have a trauma that's a betrayal by someone that you innately are supposed to be able to trust.

• 5:46Speaker 07

  It's just such a deep wound. And so I started working with these women and created a program for a women's center in Chula Vista.

• 5:56Shawn Ryan?

  Man, good for you.

• 5:58Speaker 07

  And really helped tremendous number of women and stopped doing that when insurance companies started altering inpatient psychiatry and they started just wanting it to become more like a revolving door. And I said, no, I'm not going to have my name attached to something that is not, you know, consistent with the kind of values that I have. I mean, I will only put my name on something that is top notch. But what happened was is that I had this expertise in PTSD and I was approached by somebody who asked me if I would help create a program for survivors of torture incorporated in San Diego. And that was, they were just starting up.

• 6:42Speaker 07

  And so I agreed to help them with their program. And we worked with asylum seekers and refugees from all around the world, including people who were from the genocide in Burundi in Rwanda, the lost boys of Sudan, human rights activists who had been tortured in Islamic countries like Iraq, et cetera. And then in addition to that, I also worked with people who were veterans from all of the different wars. And I didn't do that at survivors of torture. I did that just in my own private practice because there were a number of people who

• 7:22Speaker 07

  were veterans who were not getting their benefits because there was such a long waiting list for them to be evaluated by somebody could evaluate them for traumatic brain injury and PTSD. And so I agreed to do that as an independent contractor. So I've heard it all, pretty much.

• 7:46Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. You've explored some serious dark territory.

• 7:50Speaker 07

  I have, yes.

• 7:52Shawn Ryan?

  You know what, I mean...

• 7:56Shawn Ryan?

  We're gonna get into the telepathy stuff, but um, you know, I've interviewed countless, I didn't realize how prevalent sexual abuse was, especially in kids, until I started this show. And, like I mentioned, we do a lot, a lot of life stories here. And, you know, some of them have come out on the show and said it, some of them have told me after the show that things have happened when they were kids and they didn't want that out there. I'll bet it's close to 50% of the people I've interviewed have experienced some sort of sexual trauma as a child. Now, you're talking about three to five years old. So

• 8:37Shawn Ryan?

  what I want to ask is, if, if, if there are any, which it doesn't sound like, I mean, if somebody's gonna pimp their kid out like that, it's gonna happen multiple times, but, you know, is, is, have you worked with anybody that had a single experience at that age, you know, an unfortunate experience like sexual trauma, in a single experience? And if you have, I mean, do they, do they, obviously they remember that, but I mean...

• 9:08Speaker 07

  Well, I've, I've worked with people who've had the single experiences as a teenager.

• 9:15Shawn Ryan?

  As a teenager?

• 9:16Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, the ones that had the experiences when they were really young, it generally was a repeat experience.

• 9:23Shawn Ryan?

  Is that their first memory?

• 9:25Speaker 07

  I wouldn't say it's their first memory, but I'd say it's their most vivid.

• 9:31Shawn Ryan?

  Man, that's sad.

• 9:33Speaker 07

  It, it, it's very sad. And, and what happens is, is that it, it makes it really, really difficult to have normal relationships.

• 9:43Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I see that a lot, a lot, with, with, with women that have been through something like that, who are adults now, and they, it seems like they get attracted almost to the...

• 9:59Shawn Ryan?

  To that type of person, to an abusive type person.

• 10:03Speaker 07

  Absolutely. I mean, it's, it's really been something that I've observed over and over again, where there'll be these women who were sexually abused as a, as a child, and then they marry somebody who ends up sexually abusing their own children. And yet, they, when they marry this person, they don't have any suspicion at all that this person would do that. Somehow, somehow, they, it's like people can be like a magnet, almost.

• 10:36Shawn Ryan?

  Like telepathy, like some type of telepathy, some type of communication that they don't even understand that's happening?

• 10:43Speaker 07

  Well, it, what's interesting is that, yeah, it's almost like people have a radar, the system, that's unconscious. I mean, like, they say that, for example, if you had a party with a bunch of people in it, that were single, that, that the sadist and the masochist will somehow find one another.

• 11:04Shawn Ryan?

  The what?

• 11:04Speaker 07

  The, the, so somebody who's a masochist, and, and the person who's sadistic, they will somehow find one another. It's, it's as though they're, um, like, two opposites, you know, two ends of that polarity are really on the same continuum. And somehow, they, they, it's like they gravitate towards one another. I mean, a similar phenomenon is that, like, I noticed when I was doing inpatient psychiatry, that people who were, people with the same diagnosis would gravitate towards one another. And you could, if you had, like, a mixed unit, you would find that people who, for example, were depressed would be,

• 11:48Speaker 07

  they'd find one another, and they'd be talking with one another. And the people who had a personality disorder, they'd be with one another. And the people who were schizophrenic, they'd be talking with one another. And the people who were bipolar, they'd be talking with one other. And would, it's that sort of birds of a feather flock together kind of a phenomenon. And so, there's, there's some, there's some kind of unconscious process in which people are just... Attracted and attract to them. And I think that the solution to that is for us to really explore our unconscious. Because if you can take that which you're not conscious of and bring it to conscious awareness, then you have more mastery over it.

• 12:32Speaker 07

  And you don't, you don't fall into some of these old traps that you do if you're just sort of ignoring something, or you never even allow it to enter your awareness.

• 12:45Shawn Ryan?

  Two questions to come out of that. One is about generational trauma. We'll get to that in just a second. But you had mentioned exploring the unconsciousness. How, how do you do that?

• 12:59Speaker 07

  Well, one of the ways is to keep a dream diary. Because our dreams are really our unconscious talking to us.

• 13:07Shawn Ryan?

  How so? I mean, I've had some wild dreams.

• 13:12Shawn Ryan?

  Wild dreams. They make no sense. Or, you know, when I dream.

• 13:19Shawn Ryan?

  I'm fascinated with dreams.

• 13:22Shawn Ryan?

  Don't dream a whole lot. But, but, I mean, so what is a dream? I mean, you know, you have these dreams and it's, it's like, one minute you're in a street fight, and then the next minute you're eating pizza with your family, and then the next minute you're, I don't know, on vacation, going to, like, what I'm kind of saying is you get these, you get these dreams that seem to last, sometimes they seem to last all night. And then, but you can't, when you try to, when I try to describe it to my wife, I'm like, I don't know how we went from this scenario with these emotions to something

• 14:05Shawn Ryan?

  completely different and a whole nother scenario with a whole different set of emotions into, I mean, you're happy, you're angry, you're sad, you're...

• 14:17Shawn Ryan?

  Sorry, dreams that maybe, I don't know, you got in a fight with your wife, or your wife cheated on you, or, I mean, or you're mad at your kid, I mean, it's, what I'm saying is, you get like this movie, if you will, in your dream, but it doesn't flow, and so it's all these different subjects and emotions and scenarios that all happen within one dream. Why does that happen?

• 14:47Speaker 07

  Well, it's during our dreaming state that we're really trying to process emotions and lay down memory. And so, when you're, for example, some people have recurrent dreams, and I pay a lot of attention to somebody's recurrent dreams, because that's something that you're really, really trying to work through. And dreams are, some people's dreams are more transparent, they're, it's more obvious what the dream is really about, if you apply it to, you know, what's going on in their waking life. But other people's dreams are more encoded in symbols, and the more deeply encoded

• 15:28Speaker 07

  they are, the more it is that the person can't really face it face on, and so it's like, you're dealing with it in code first, and then, and then, as the layers come off, you're able to see more about what the dream really is about.

• 15:46Shawn Ryan?

  Could you go into a little more detail on that? I mean, how do you decode a dream?

• 15:53Speaker 07

  Well, it's something I've done as a skilled psychotherapist. How do I decode it? When I, when I, when I listen to the dream...

• 16:10Speaker 07

  I want to know what emotion has, first of all, what emotion came up in the dream? Okay, so, so, you know, let's say somebody said, you know, "Oh, I felt really sad," or "I felt really scared," and I'd say, "Okay." What, is there anything that's going on in your life that's, that feels, or that you've been thinking about lately, that feels at all like that emotion? I mean, you know, that, that, that, that would be an echo of it. And I say, "Oh, yeah, uh, you know, I, um, yeah, I had this anxiety dream, and I'm, you know, I'm feeling a little anxious in my new job," or, you know, "I'm feeling a little anxious because my wife isn't acting the same way, and I'm wondering if something's

• 16:51Speaker 07

  going on," or, you know, so, and then, and then you just keep exploring that, and, and you, you get into what, what could, what, what in your life is similar to this? And then it, it, it just takes you down this pathway where you start to realize, "Oh, now you're thinking about this, but actually, your dream is about something that happened to you before." So let's say that a person has a, a dream in which they're very anxious, they say, "Oh, I've been wondering if my wife's, you know, having an affair." And then you get into, "Oh, this person was married before and their wife did have an affair."

• 17:35Speaker 07

  And then you start to unpack that. And, and, so it's, and there's certain things that become, um, you know, just become obvious that, that, that's what they are. I'm, I'm trying to, like, like an example of a dream, um, for, like, you know, there was a time in my life when I would have a dream in which I'm driving a car and the brakes don't work. Okay?

• 18:00Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 18:01Speaker 07

  Now, that is a dream where it just feels like you don't have control over your life. It's like, well, what's going on in your life that you don't feel controlled over? That's, that, that's a good example.

• 18:11Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. Yeah, it's, it's just interesting, 'cause I, I have, like, and, you know, I have, like, zero fear that my wife is going to cheat on me. But it's just, and that's just one example, but I may have a dream where I lost my son at the store and I think he got kidnapped. Or I have a dream where...

• 18:33Shawn Ryan?

  One of my best friends killed somebody and am I gonna help him hide the body? And or you know what I mean? Like it's just like wazoo shit that just pops in my head. And it's like, what does this have to do with anything? Like I, I don't have a fear of that. I don't know why, you know, I had a dream about somebody kidnapping my kids at Walmart.

• 18:53Speaker 07

  It, it may be, to some extent, it may be that you're trying to process things that aren't so, that aren't personal. In other words, you know, we're, we hear in the news all the time about these horror stories.

• 19:04Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 19:06Speaker 07

  And so then what happens is, is that, you know, there's this human tendency to then try that on. You know, it, it, you know, as a way of just trying to reconcile that we live in a world in which these kinds of things are even possible. And so it's, sometimes our dreams are like a rehearsal. It's sort of, we're trying it on so that in case something like that did happen, that we feel prepared for it. It's like you, you're, you're, you're a former Navy SEAL. You, you had to try on scenarios, scenarios in your training for combat. And so, so some of these things may be just, it's not that you have a fear of it.

• 19:49Speaker 07

  It's that you, you acknowledge that we live in a world in which those kinds of things can happen and that you have a need to feel prepared. And what's fascinating is that dreams oftentimes are places where people who normally aren't psychic or don't consider themselves psychic can actually have these experiences that are precognitive or telepathic. And I remember reading this account once of this dream that somebody had in which they were working in, they worked in a chemistry lab and their eyes, that a chemical went into their eyes and it was going to destroy their eyeballs unless they went over into the, get their eyes washed.

• 20:34Speaker 07

  We, we had these places, stations where you would go in case something like that happened. And he had a dream of that happening to him and then, recurrent dream of that happening to him. And then years later, when it happened, he, he was able to. Get to the station faster because he had already rehearsed it in his mind.

• 20:58Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Do you think that, I mean, do you think that some dreams are a representation of your true self? And so where I'm going with this is, is I'll just bring up some more examples. I'm just curious of your thoughts. But I mean, you know, when I was in the teams and contracting for CIA and all this other stuff, I mean, I would have dreams where we'd be in the middle of a gunfight and I would rise to the occasion and I would be, you know, doing everything I'm supposed to do, heroic actions, all this other stuff. And then I might have a dream

• 21:36Shawn Ryan?

  where I cower away and I, I wake up and I'm like ashamed of myself. Or, you know, or it could be a street fight where, you know, I, um, one dream I, I don't know, defend my family, you know, from some type of an assailant. And then I may have another dream where it's, you know, not the exact same scenario, but it might be a similar scenario. And I didn't defend them. And I'll wake up from some of those feeling either proud of my actions or ashamed. And if it, if I'm ashamed, then I'm like, if I wake up and

• 22:17Shawn Ryan?

  feel ashamed from it, I'm like, man, is that, that's not who I am. Or it could be anything. It could be, you know, it could be, I don't know, a dream where you do something bad and you, and then, and then you think, oh, man, am I, I don't, I'm not capable of doing that to somebody. Why would, you know, I've never have done anything like this to somebody, you know, and, and I always would like to think that, yeah, I'm going to stand up for my family or for my friends or for my, you know, when I, in my other life, you know, my former colleagues and, and battle. And so, I mean, so where I'm going is, do you think, do you think dreams are a direct representation of who you are?

• 23:03Speaker 07

  In this case about you, I would say you must have a very, very highly-developed superego. And what I mean by superego is your conscience. You're somebody that holds yourself to very, very, very high standards. And so part of how we hold ourselves to high principles is that it's criticism-reward. Criticism-reward. It's like you... So what you're doing is, it's like you're being hard on yourself to keep yourself in line. And you would never do some of the things that you feel shameful about in your dreams.

• 23:48Speaker 07

  You would never do those things in your waking life. And part of what keeps you along that sort of straight and arrow is that you're always reminding yourself of how you would feel if you didn't. And it keeps you on task.

• 24:09Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Interesting. So it's like your subconscious...

• 24:15Speaker 07

  That's what I mean. It's your unconscious. It's more, it's your unconscious that is, you know, that's at play here. That's why I was saying that dreams are really about our unconscious.

• 24:28Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Interesting. All right, let's go to generational trauma. Or cycles. You know, back to kids that have been, you know, had horrific traumatic events happen, you know, sexual abuse, physical abuse. How does somebody break that cycle that plays in their head over and over and over?

• 24:55Speaker 07

  Well, one of the things that's interesting about generational trauma is that people can have, they can express it without ever having been exposed to the generations that actually had the experiences. So what I mean by that is that there are individuals who were adopted, who were the children and grandchildren, the people who were in the Holocaust.

• 25:30Speaker 07

  And even though they were adopted at birth, had no, you know, exposure to parents who were traumatized by what happened, the child was anxious from the get-go. And one of the theories about what this, you know, what the cause of this is, or how this happens, is that there's epigenetics as a result. We inherit not just our genes. We inherit the control switches for the genes. So the genetics, the genes that code for proteins are only about 10% of our chromosomes.

• 26:12Speaker 07

  The other 90% of our chromosomes are thought to be what really controls the expression of those genes. And so certain genes can get turned on and get turned off. And so what's happening there is you're inheriting this sort of, you know, for lack of a better word, it's almost like a memory without it having like, you know, an actual memory, but I mean, you're inheriting that. Well, the good news is that we can do things to turn back on genes that were turned off and turn off genes that were turned on. We can alter the epigenetics.

• 26:51Shawn Ryan?

  You can do that?

• 26:52Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah, we can, we can, we can do that. Absolutely. I mean, that's our, you know, things like our diet, things like psychotherapy, you know, things like, you know, just doing meditation, doing, you know, doing all of these different sort of practices actually changes our epigenetics. And we can then pass that down to the future generations. It's one of the reasons why I think it's so important for people to really undergo healing of themselves so that they don't pass the things down. Because even if you're really being careful

• 27:37Speaker 07

  about what you say or what you do, et cetera, our children, if we haven't really worked on certain things, they, they still can inherit some of what, what we, you know, haven't processed yet.

• 27:53Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting, interesting.

• 27:58Shawn Ryan?

  Another random question about autism. You know, you'd mentioned that at the beginning of your practice, you were really focused on autistic people. And that there wasn't, there wasn't enough of that to fill your practice. Well, I don't know when that was, but let's fast forward. You know, it seems like,

• 28:22Shawn Ryan?

  I wouldn't say autism is exploding, but the numbers have gone up. Is that, is there something that we as a species is doing wrong? Or is it an over diagnosis? Or, or have doctors picked up on other, on, on signs that are, is the spectrum widened? You know, to where, you know, there's different levels now? I mean, what, why, why do, why are we seeing this rise?

• 28:50Speaker 07

  Well, when I first started studying autism, which was back in 1986, 1987, it was only about one in 10,000 children. And now it's one in 30.

• 29:03Shawn Ryan?

  One in 30?

• 29:05Speaker 07

  One in 30.

• 29:07Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 29:08Speaker 07

  And what we have to realize is that our brains are still developing throughout childhood.

• 29:22Speaker 07

  And we've introduced all of these artificial factors into our world without having really studied what effect they might have on brain development. Everything from an increased C-section rate, ultrasound during pregnancy, changes in the diet, which change the microbiome, which we know plays a huge role in neurotransmitters.

• 29:53Speaker 07

  Also, we've introduced all of these, you know, Wi-Fi and, you know, various electromagnetic fields that are, that are not natural to the earth.

• 30:06Speaker 07

  There's all of these chemicals. I mean, when babies are born, there's, there's tens of thousands of chemicals in the umbilical blood.

• 30:17Speaker 07

  And so they're being exposed to all these chemicals. And one of the things that a lot of people don't realize is that the placenta does not filter out chemicals. It actually concentrates them in the fetus. Just one of the reasons why I'm a big proponent of women who want to become pregnant undergoing some kind of just cleansing, you know, some kind of detox. I mean, it's not, it's not really enough to just not take anything during your pregnancy. I mean, you really need to, you know, all of the beauty products, you know, nail polish, you know, makeup, you know, all of these just artificial chemicals, we absorb them through our skin.

• 31:01Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh, uh huh.

• 31:03Speaker 07

  And, and so I, I think that it's, it's really, it's a matter of, you know, we've got, we've introduced a lot of things into the world that are, it's no putting the genie back in the bottle. Okay. And so what we need to do is we need to find ways in which we can optimize our health and, and, and keep those things that we feel are essential. And those things that are not essential, such as like, for example, use of glyphosate in so much of our, our agriculture, I mean, you know, that, that's, that's a known toxin.

• 31:40Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 31:41Speaker 07

  And, and it's not only toxic to our system, but it also is toxic to our gut bacteria. So, so anyway, so there's just, there's so many factors that are at, at play here. And it's one of the reasons why it's been hard for anybody to pinpoint that it's, you know, it's one, the single factor, because it's really probably multifactorial.

• 32:03Shawn Ryan?

  So it's, it's not over diagnosis?

• 32:07Speaker 07

  No, it's definitely not over diagnosis. No.

• 32:11Speaker 00

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Tom Cruise is.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 32:41Speaker 04

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• 32:51Speaker 05

  Espolone Tequila, 40% alcohol by volume, 80 proof. Copyright 2026, California, America, New York, New York. Drink responsibly.

• 32:57Shawn Ryan?

  Do you...

• 33:00Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think that there are aspects of autism that are a gift?

• 33:06Speaker 07

  Absolutely.

• 33:09Shawn Ryan?

  What are those aspects?

• 33:12Speaker 07

  Well, one of the things is that people who are autistic have a different type of cognitive process.

• 33:25Speaker 07

  They tend to be really superior pattern recognizers, which is, you know, they're able to connect the dots. They're able to see the associations of things. Some of them are visual-spatial thinkers, so they're able to process things. And once again, it's relational, but it's different from pattern recognition. So an example would be, so people who are visual-spatial thinkers make great engineers. They can design something in their mind and manipulate it within their mind before they even build it. They can, you know, sort of debug all of the problems. Nikola Tesla was somebody who could do that.

• 34:11Speaker 07

  And so that type of thinking is extremely efficient at solving a lot of problems versus verbal thinking, which is what most neurotypical people are, is they think in words, they think in language. And the problem with language is it's very linear. And it also can be very, very circular. So you just go looping around in the same thoughts. The other thing about language is this language can also be very deceptive. We can talk ourselves into or talk other people into believing something that really isn't true, all through language.

• 34:52Speaker 07

  Whereas with these other processing styles, you know, the right-brain processing styles, it's more that you just, it's more like pure perception. It's more of a that you're, and it's harder to be deceived because you can just, you're seeing how things plug into everything else as opposed to just following a sort of a linear logic train that somebody is leading you to wherever they want to lead you. Those are just some of the gifts. And then, and then there are many other gifts.

• 35:34Speaker 07

  I mean, many of the individuals that I've worked with who are autistic, they, there's a purity about them, there's an honesty about them, and there is a deeply spiritual aspect to them. So, so there's many, many gifts. And many of the mothers of these children are delighted that they have an autistic child. They really, they get upset if somebody says that, says anything that suggests that they feel sorry for them.

• 36:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, it's interesting too, because, I mean, you see so many ultra-successful people in, you know, for example, in the tech world, you know, that are tech giants who...

• 36:24Shawn Ryan?

  appeared to be very much so on that type of a spectrum or I mean you look at something like have you ever seen that movie the big short I think his name is Michael Berry he's the one that called the 2008 crash of the market the economy and I mean you look at you know in movie it looks like they portray him as somebody who would definitely fall on the spectrum but and I mean you know for somebody it's just and everybody thought he was crazy you know and then bam market tanked and it's like shit the guy was right but I mean you see it all over the tech world and it just seems like you know some of the the most fascinating

• 37:08Shawn Ryan?

  innovators in the world all seem to kind of fall in that type of category

• 37:14Speaker 07

  yeah yeah it's kind of funny because when I was in college there were the um sort of the engineering types that were you know they were called you know nerds you know and they had the you know pocket calculators and you know they were you know kind of people made fun of them and then what well those are those kinds of people are now the crypto billionaires

• 37:34Shawn Ryan?

  I know

• 37:35Speaker 07

  have all of these gorgeous women you know they're just lining up to be with them so you know it's uh talk about revenge of the nerds

• 37:44Shawn Ryan?

  it's a good way to put it but it's it's um I mean it's an interesting very interesting subject to to kind of dissect and so I mean in you were talking about language and I remember when I interviewed I mean language seems to be a very inefficient way to communicate

• 38:10Speaker 07

  absolutely I mean I think that's one of the reasons why more and more people are losing their tolerance for reading they'd rather watch a podcast like this

• 38:20Shawn Ryan?

  I had a conversation with Joe McMonville about you know how does this happen how does how does remote viewing ESP abilities how do they come about you know and he's I think he had mentioned that he thinks that we all have it but

• 38:37Shawn Ryan?

  We all can't tap into it. And so he went on, and this is just a theory. You know, I don't think there is any science behind this, but, but he did bring up a good point. And he talked about at the beginning of humanity, he's like, there was no language. He's like, if you look at animals, they're able to communicate extremely efficiently. Um, without words. And he goes, you know, at the beginning, this is how we communicated was body language. It was, you really wouldn't have to do much, maybe grunt, point at something, you know, but you could read each other and communicate a lot more efficiently.

• 39:19Shawn Ryan?

  And then when we started traveling in groups and that it would be, you know, then we started to introduce language and he goes, language is actually a very inefficient way to communicate. There's a lot of opportunities for miscommunication or, or, you know, you insert sarcasm and all this other stuff. And, and, um, and I, I just found that to be very interesting. And, and you know, he went on to go, you know, through tech, through social media. We're looking at a phone, we're looking at a TV. He's like, we're not accessing, you know, everything that our brains were meant to do. Um, and it's been, you know, kind of a,

• 40:01Shawn Ryan?

  if you look at a graph, you know, he's like, it goes down, you know? And so I'm just curious what your thoughts are on that.

• 40:08Speaker 07

  Oh, absolutely. That language. So, so

• 40:15Speaker 07

  one of the things that I think plays a huge role in why these autistic individuals that I do research with, why they're so telepathic is that they underwent a regression, most of them underwent a regression between the ages of one and two and a half years old, right? When they were acquiring language.

• 40:43Speaker 07

  And that's also the time period when we undergo, developmentally, individuation separation. In other words, you know, people talk about the terrible twos, the terrible threes, and part of that is because you have, the toddler is trying to assert their independence from the parent, and they say no to everything, even if it's something they want. Right? You know? And so it's because they're just wanting, they're testing out their ability to have free will. And so what happens, though, with these autistic individuals is that they regress during

• 41:27Speaker 07

  that time period when they're acquiring language and they're becoming more autonomous from the parent, and so they become more and more dependent upon the parent for a lot of basic needs. And so they never go through the separation that those of us who are neurotypical go through. And so they stay in kind of more of a shared consciousness with the family members. And I believe that we're all born in that shared consciousness, and that that's part of how we acquire language in the first place.

• 42:11Speaker 07

  I mean, if you think about how magical it is that a young child can pick up language and know, you know, know what it is that people are talking about. I mean, it's really quite remarkable. I mean, when you meet some of these children, that, you know, there are some children that at the age of two, they can speak in full paragraphs. And it's like, how do you take these sounds that you hear?

• 42:45Speaker 07

  And the sounds, you know, from everybody sound slightly different because we all have different voices. People have different accents, etc. How do we take that and convert it into actual concepts? So I think what happens is, is that we all have that shared consciousness so that we pair those sounds and the patterns within them, which is, you know, the information. We pair that with whatever it is that the person who's speaking is thinking. And then, as we develop language, then we, you know, the telepathy goes underground. And it's really more of our default kind of, you know,

• 43:28Speaker 07

  proto-language, if you will. One of the things that's interesting is that if you look at brain development, when we're born, there's a pathway for language that's intact, that it's what, the pathway, that's called the ventral pathway. That's involved in the understanding of language. And it's not until we're seven years old that we've completed the development of the dorsal language pathway, which is the pathway that enables the expression of language. And that's the pathway that gets disrupted in these children who regress during this first couple of, you know, first few years of life.

• 44:12Speaker 07

  And that pathway is connecting the front of the brain, an area called Broca's area, which is the expression of language. It's also, and the expression of language is not just speech. It's also the ability to write or type. It's also the area of the brain that's involved in the use of tools. And so by having that, that not get hooked up to the part of the brain that's involved in the understanding of language, it makes it hard for people to express what they already know in these individuals. Now, what's interesting is that...

• 44:54Speaker 07

  And this is all in the left hemisphere. That's basically, you know, the language is for most people, right-handed people especially. It's encoded in the left hemisphere. What's interesting is that one of the reasons why I thought that autistic individuals might be the ones most likely to show us that ESP is real is that I realized that their brain activity when they're in their waking state is more similar to our functionality when we're in dreaming sleep. And as I mentioned earlier, oftentimes people can have psychic dreams who aren't otherwise psychic.

• 45:35Speaker 07

  And if you look at the, you know, what's going on, the activity in the brain during dreaming sleep, what you'll see is that the right hemisphere is dominant and the left hemisphere is quiet. And the frontal lobes are quiet. And in children, our frontal lobes aren't as fully hooked up to the rest of the brain, okay, which is why, you know, like, you know, we're all kind of ADD when we're little because our frontal lobes aren't hooked up. So we don't have impulse control or we can't think of the consequences. And in these autistic individuals, they have all of these right hemisphere skills.

• 46:17Speaker 07

  As I mentioned, their cognitive processes are more right hemisphere based. And a lot of savant skills are right hemisphere and their deficits are left hemisphere, language. And so they have this kind of reversal of brain functioning when they're awake from what we, from what we have when we're awake, but that we all experience when we're in our dreaming sleep. And so I made this hypothesis over 20 years ago that autistic individuals might be the ones who'd be the most likely to express ESP. And I knew that a lot of savant abilities were very similar to ESP. Well, what's happened a couple of years ago is that the head of neurology at the University

• 47:01Speaker 07

  of Toronto, Maurice Friedman, did an experiment in which he inhibited the left frontal lobe.

• 47:10Speaker 07

  Of individuals who were just neurotypical individuals. And he found that that enhanced their abilities for telepathy and for psychokinesis, which is the ability of the mind to affect the material world.

• 47:25Shawn Ryan?

  Like spoon bending?

• 47:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, like spoon bending, yeah.

• 47:31Speaker 07

  And so, so that's, yeah, yeah. So, so that's the reason why I think that these autistic, these non-speaking autistic individuals, I mean, their brain activity is, is consistent with what that study shows.

• 47:50Shawn Ryan?

  Have you seen psychokinesis in real time?

• 47:55Speaker 07

  I've seen people able to affect random number generators, which is a form of psychokinesis.

• 48:07Speaker 07

  And I, but I haven't in, in real time. I haven't been to a spoon bending party, but I know a lot of people who have. I know a lot of people who've bent spoons.

• 48:16Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean by, I'm sorry, what did you call it? Randomized numbers?

• 48:23Speaker 07

  Oh, a random number generator?

• 48:24Shawn Ryan?

  How do they affect that?

• 48:26Speaker 07

  Well, so, so a lot of random number generators, how they operate is that it's basically based on radioactive decay, which is a random process. And we know that, you know, there's just a certain, you know, we have a lot of data on, on what that looks like, okay? And it's just random. There's, there's no predicting any of it, okay? And so if you have a random number generator, it's just measuring that radioactive decay. But then you say to somebody, okay, I want you to now influence that so it's less random.

• 49:12Speaker 07

  And then you, and then you just measure the output and you, and you see that it has shifted towards something that's more coherent.

• 49:22Speaker 07

  There were experiments that were done by Roger Nelson and others at Princeton in which they had random number generators all over the world. And what they looked at is what effect does collective consciousness have on those random number generators? If everybody is focusing on the same thing, if everybody is simultaneously having the same thought, does that create more of a coherence in that which is just a natural random process? And what they found was, yes, indeed, it does.

• 50:04Speaker 07

  And how they did the experiment was that they had all of this data of these random number generators, just putting their output out. And then they looked at time periods when a high percentage of people were focused on the same thing. So what would those things be? The O.J. Simpson trial. So many people were tuning into the O.J. Simpson trial that there was increased coherency in the random number generators.

• 50:37Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 50:38Speaker 07

  They did this for many, many big events like that.

• 50:43Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. How do you describe collective consciousness?

• 50:48Speaker 07

  How do I describe that?

• 50:50Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:51Speaker 07

  What I would say is that so we, so all of us are basically, I would say, we're differentiated consciousness in terms of, you know, we're each our own individual consciousness. But we're still connected or capable of being connected to

• 51:13Speaker 07

  A unified consciousness. You know, there are people who have these mystical experiences that say that they realize everything is all one, you know, that it's all unity, that we're not separate. Okay. So that's, so that consciousness, where it's like you go up to, you know, whatever you want to call it, source, whatever you want to label that, it's all of our higher consciousness, all collectively, together.

• 51:46Shawn Ryan?

  I've had that experience.

• 51:48Speaker 07

  Unity consciousness?

• 51:49Shawn Ryan?

  Yes, all is one. It was a psychedelic experience, five M A O, D M T. And it was a very profound feeling.

• 52:05Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. So you were, you were going from the more differentiated individual consciousness to the collective.

• 52:16Speaker 07

  And we all are capable of that. It's just that some people need to have, you know, a chemical push.

• 52:22Shawn Ryan?

  Why, why do you, I mean, what happens in the brain when I, when that happens on psychedelics?

• 52:32Speaker 07

  What happens in the brain?

• 52:35Speaker 07

  Well, I don't know exactly what, when you say what happens in the brain, I don't know exactly what, what's happening. I mean, it's something I want to study.

• 52:55Speaker 07

  I, I think of it as, for example, think of it as being like a...

• 53:06Speaker 07

  We, so are you familiar with the concept of the biofield? No, I'm not. Okay.

• 53:15Speaker 07

  So, all living, all living systems have a field around them. Okay. It's, it's an electromagnetic field, okay? And within that is plasma, and it has a toroidal shape.

• 53:33Speaker 07

  And the torus is, it's sort of like a donut, okay? And it's a self-reflecting system. Think of the, if you've ever looked at electromagnetic field, you know, or looked at the field around the earth. Okay? It's toroidal.

• 53:52Speaker 07

  And it goes, loops around like this, okay?

• 53:57Speaker 07

  And

• 54:00Speaker 07

  we spend most of our time, in our individuated consciousness,

• 54:07Speaker 07

  focusing on just the, sort of the, the information that's within, that's coming to us from our sensory system. Okay, you know, that's informed by, you know, our, our sight, our hearing, you know, etc. That is really our local, you know, here and now senses. Okay. But what happens is, so that's only some of the information that's within that toroidal field. I, I believe that, that, that, that that field can, contains information that is relevant to us here, but out, on the outside here, it's getting, it's getting information from elsewhere. That makes sense.

• 54:52Speaker 07

  It's like a, um...

• 54:58Speaker 07

  Think of it as being...

• 55:02Speaker 07

  There's our inner process, okay? There's what you experience internally that feels more private, okay? And when we go, and that's local consciousness, but when we access non-local consciousness, like what the remote viewers are doing, it's like our conscious awareness shifts from paying attention to just the readout from what our senses, our local senses are telling us, to shifting to, I think of it as the outside of that torus, it shifts to that which is not informed by our senses anymore, but is actually informed by the greater field.

• 55:47Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 55:49Speaker 07

  So I don't think of it... I don't think of consciousness as being confined to the brain. In fact, I think of consciousness as being something that the brain navigates.

• 56:00Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 56:02Speaker 07

  Like, we all have, you know, we all have like smartphones nowadays, and so we use our smartphone to connect with other people and to surf the internet, and the information isn't contained within the smartphone. The information is contained within the field.

• 56:25Speaker 07

  And so I think that our brains and consciousness work similarly, that our consciousness is actually a field. And there are some psychics who actually see these fields.

• 56:39Shawn Ryan?

  Like a cloud. Like a collective cloud.

• 56:43Speaker 07

  They see it like, they see, well, they also will see like your field, okay? There are people who see auras. These autistic individuals I work with, they see auras. So they see your consciousness field outside of you.

• 56:59Speaker 07

  And, and, and, and as I said, the brain is really what navigates that. And that consciousness field can expand and, and be connected with the greater consciousness.

• 57:16Shawn Ryan?

  Very interesting, very interesting. What, I mean, what got you so interested in telepathy and ESP? What, what was the, what was the thing that, that kind of brought you down that road?

• 57:35Speaker 07

  Yep, because I started out as a neuroscientist and very much in the materialist reductionist model. And things changed for me when I was on faculty at Harvard. And I was called to do an evaluation of this woman who wanted to sign out of the hospital against medical advice. And that was my, my role there at the, at the hospital was to do psychiatric consults on the medical and surgical floors. And I went in to see this woman and the staff had already determined that she was mentally ill because she said she was seeing ghosts and that she was psychic and wanted to leave.

• 58:16Speaker 07

  And in my training, that's what I was taught is a sign of somebody being psychotic. And when I went in to see her, she, one of the first things she said to me is, oh, I'm seeing all these ghosts and it's, you know, freaking me out and I really want to leave. And I said, wow, yeah, I imagine if there's going to be ghosts anywhere, they'd be in a hospital. A lot of people die here. And, and she, she goes, yeah, she goes, and she goes, and I'm also psychic and I know my tests are going to come back, uh, normal. And back then, you, we, we did blood work in order to find out if somebody had a heart attack and it took a day or two to get the results back. And so we didn't have those results back yet.

• 59:01Speaker 07

  And, and she says, so I, I want to leave. And I said, well, you know, I, I really love to talk to you a little bit more about this. And I, I really wanted to just gain her cooperation to stay rather than just sign the paperwork and commit her to stay. And she looked at me and she said, I'm getting a really good reading about you right now. Do you mind if I tell you what I see?

• 59:26Speaker 07

  And I said, yeah, sure, you know, go ahead, you know. I just thought it was really interesting that she would say that. And I thought, you know, it's good. I love to build rapport with people. And I said, sure, you know, go ahead. And she goes, wow. She says, I'm seeing you, Aura, and you've got this white light around you like, like Jesus. And I'm going, yeah, I'm right, you know. And then she says, and I see that you have a husband who's a chemist and he's applying for a job right now in two different cities. And I was like, my, my husband was an M.D., Ph.D., biochemist. And he was applying for a postdoctorate in two different cities right then. And I was like, oh, really?

• 1:00:10Shawn Ryan?

  That got your attention, huh?

• 1:00:11Speaker 07

  That got my attention. And then, and then she said, I said, I said, what, what cities, you know, are you talking about? She says, well, you know, in his heart of hearts, he wants to go to one of them, but you're actually going to end up at the other one. And now she had my curiosity because I, he and I had met when we were medical students together at Johns Hopkins. And he was 13th generation Baltimorean. I knew that that's where he wanted to, he really wanted to go back there. And the other place he was applying was UCSD. And I, she said, I said, well, what city are we going to end up in? She said, well, name some cities. So I named about 10, 10 cities. And she goes, San Diego, that's where you'll be.

• 1:00:56Speaker 07

  And she said, and you'll have a daughter while you're there. And, and she just started telling me all of these things about my current situation and my future that there was no way she could know. And I was able to talk her into staying because she really liked me. And she said, well, if you come back tomorrow, I'll, I'll stay. And, um, and so she stayed. Her test came back normal and she left. And I went, we, we went on to move to San Diego and I went on to have a daughter. And it was one of those things that just...

• 1:01:35Speaker 07

  It was one of those things where it was so life-changing because I went into this field wanting to understand the brain and consciousness. That's why, I mean, originally when I went to medical school, I was going to become a neurosurgeon because they were the ones who were mapping the brain during surgery by doing recordings from the brain and stimulating parts of the brain during an operation because they wanted to make sure that they didn't remove areas that somebody needed for functioning. So if you're doing neurosurgery, you really want to know for this individual, and everybody's

• 1:02:18Speaker 07

  brain is slightly different, you want to know for them what their functionality is. And so I thought, oh, this would be a good way to map out the brain and do good in the world. So my goal was to understand the brain and consciousness and how does it all work? And I thought, if what she did is real, and I knew it was real because I experienced it firsthand, then any model for how the brain and consciousness work is going to be incorrect if it can't account for this.

• 1:02:54Speaker 07

  And so I started doing research to try to find, has anybody else reported these phenomena? And in 1995, when some of the remote viewing work started to get declassified, that really piqued my interest again. And I said, oh, look at this. Military intelligence funded this kind of research for a long time.

• 1:03:25Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:26Speaker 07

  And they had some really fascinating results. And so it was after that that I decided that I was going to put my own energy into trying to figure it out.

• 1:03:37Shawn Ryan?

  That's interesting. You know, that happened.

• 1:03:41Shawn Ryan?

  That happened to my wife before and and she recorded it. This is before we ever met. We didn't even know each other and and several years later, I what did we do? We did we did something and we got connected to, I don't know, somebody that was like, you should try this and I tried it. And recorded it and I was like, um, you know, I'm not really buying into this, this. I mean, he was like, oh, you've seen explosions and I'm like, I'm a Navy SEAL. Of course I've seen explosions.

• 1:04:18Shawn Ryan?

  Try again. And I mean, I wasn't open to it, you know, at all. And and I am a Christian, so I'm gonna get a bunch of shit about this in the comments, but whatever. It is what it is. And so me and my wife started talking about it and she was talking about, um, she was talking about an event she went to in New York. Who's the big medium there? The, um, do you know who I'm talking about?

• 1:04:46Speaker 07

  John Edwards?

• 1:04:47Shawn Ryan?

  No, it was a woman, I think.

• 1:04:49Speaker 07

  Oh, the Long Island medium?

• 1:04:50Shawn Ryan?

  Yes. She was talking, we we we just had like a dinner conversation about this and she started telling me about the Long Island medium. And they went to some type of a show there and, um,

• 1:05:04Shawn Ryan?

  and there was this woman there. They were like, oh, I'm getting these messages and all these people raising their hand like, no, not you. No, it's not you. It's not you. And she went on to say some other stuff and she's like, no, that's not it either. And she goes, this, she goes,

• 1:05:25Shawn Ryan?

  somebody in here, I can't remember exactly how it went, but basically it was like, this person.

• 1:05:33Shawn Ryan?

  Mrs. So and so and he wants you to know everything's okay and he knows that you go into the closet and spray your dad's old cologne so that you can remember him. And the, the woman that was, that went there with my wife like broke down bawling, like was like, I can't, I can't believe that this happened. And then, and then she had spoken to a psychic long time ago, years before we met. And the woman that gave her the reading gave her my initials, says you're gonna marry somebody

• 1:06:13Shawn Ryan?

  with the initials, you know, my initials, and then you're gonna move to this place, which we wound up moving to. And she said, I don't even, she didn't even remember it actually. She was like, I, we were talking about having, um, the fact that she had done that, that she had talked to a psychic and I was like, this is crazy. I don't believe in any of that stuff. And then she's like, actually, I think I recorded it. So we dug through her computer and pulled it up and sure as shit, she was like, I don't even, I didn't even remember this, but she's in there and called out my initials, said we're gonna move, you know, to Tennessee and said some other stuff that's actually happening right now, uh, that we're in process, right?

• 1:06:58Shawn Ryan?

  I don't wanna go into it cause it's private, but, but she had called like all these things and I'm sitting there like, I'm like, you didn't even, you didn't remember this? And she's like, no. She's, she's like, I didn't remember it, but here it is. And, and that really kinda like opened my mind to it and I was like, oh shit, well, maybe there is something to this. And then, you know, then the rest is history. That's when I started bringing in, uh, people, remote viewers and psychics and stuff to, to hear their stories and under, try to understand how it works. Still have no idea how it works, but, but. So that led you into, I mean, did you ever do it again before, before we move on?

• 1:07:39Speaker 07

  Ever do what again?

• 1:07:40Shawn Ryan?

  Have you ever had another reading?

• 1:07:42Speaker 07

  Oh, well, so.

• 1:07:47Speaker 07

  When I met Gary Schwartz from the University of Arizona at the time, and this was back in like 2004, 2005, he was doing research on mediums. And he said to me, have you ever had a reading by a medium? And I said, no. And he said, well, I'm testing these mediums and I want to certify them. And so I need somebody independently to just look at them. Would you be interested in a free reading? And I said, oh, okay, sure. And so this woman called, we had a set up phone call.

• 1:08:32Speaker 07

  And she called me and she said, this guy named George is so excited to talk to you. And I said, George? And she said, yeah, he's your grandfather, isn't he? And I'm like, no, I don't have a grandfather named George. And then she said, oh, well, he's pretty insistent that he's here to talk to you. And I said, and then I thought about it for a second. I thought, well, wait a minute. My daughter's father's father was named George and he had passed over. And I said, could it be my daughter's grandfather? And she said, yeah, that's who it is. He wants to tell you a few things. Oh, well, that's interesting.

• 1:09:17Speaker 07

  And then the next person that she said showed up was my grandmother, Minnie. And the way she described her was just totally consistent with my grandmother. She described her as somebody that would follow you around with like a Windex bottle and wipe up any little fingerprints and whatnot. That was exactly my grandmother. She was very, very, very fastidious and clean. And so I thought, well, that's interesting. And then one of these autistic individuals that I do research with recently just spontaneously told me, he got a reading on me. And I was like, oh, who's here?

• 1:10:01Speaker 07

  And he says, well, it's your half aunt. And my father had a half sister.

• 1:10:08Speaker 07

  And I thought, well, that's interesting because that's a very specific thing to say. And most of us don't have ants. And then the other person that she said showed up to say something to me was my, she said, your grandfather by marriage. And his name is Harold. And my step-grandfather's name was Harold. Wow.

• 1:10:34Speaker 07

  So I really think that what's happening now is that people are having so many, whether it's television shows like Long Island Medium, or what these autistic individuals are telling the world. I think what's happening is that people are being shown that we are more eternal than we realize we are. That so many people are terrified of death because they think that that's it.

• 1:11:19Speaker 07

  They think that's the end. That they bought into this very atheistic, materialistic model that tells us that all we are, you know, the only thing that's real is that which we experience with our five senses. And that when we die, we're dying and that's it.

• 1:11:49Speaker 07

  And I think that we're living in a world now where we see the consequences on a daily basis of such a toxic, materialist model. It's taken us away from...

• 1:12:10Speaker 07

  A spiritual life. And so I know that a lot of people are raised in Christianity and think that some of these things are, you know, work for the devil or evil or whatever. But what I feel is that we were warned against, in the Bible, we were warned against putting our faith into people who are practicing occult sciences, for good reason, okay? Because those kind of people can have way too much influence over us. And so then, you know, you have to trust that they have good intentions. But it's important we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

• 1:12:55Speaker 07

  And because, and what I mean by that is that the people who are now showing us these things now, I think that they're showing them to us not because they're evil or demon possessed, but because we need to be, we need to be reminded that we are more than just this flesh. We need to be, we need to get back into a more spiritual way of being. And these children that I work with, they say that they're in communication with God and Jesus all the time. So it's, I mean, they would very much say that they're Christians.

• 1:13:39Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, I, what do you think happens when we die?

• 1:13:47Speaker 07

  What do I think happens? I think that we, I think we join that unity consciousness until it's time for us to differentiate again, or maybe we get to stay up there.

• 1:13:58Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. I interviewed this guy, John Burke. Have you heard of John Burke? He, he went around and did, I think he interviewed over 1,500 people with near-death experiences and found the commonalities, and this is all Christianity-based. And he found that, you know, these, these, the subjects were from all over the world, all different religions.

• 1:14:28Shawn Ryan?

  Had no contact with each other. And he would just go and document every single one of them. And then found all the commonalities that had to do with Christianity. And there was an overwhelming amount of them that had some type of an experience with with Jesus or God or visualization of heaven or, you know, the white light. And some of them having communication, some of them didn't. They even had hellish near-death experiences where the subject went to hell and was saved. And so, I mean, have you dove into near-death experiences? Does that?

• 1:15:07Speaker 07

  Oh, absolutely. I'm fascinated by near-death experiences. In fact, I've had a couple myself that...

• 1:15:15Shawn Ryan?

  You've had some?

• 1:15:17Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, not the full-blown experience. What I experienced is that when I was about 13 years old, I was in a canoeing incident where my brother... And I'd never was taught how to swim. And my brother and his friend thought it'd be funny to tip over the canoe when we were in the river. And I couldn't make it to shore. And I just started sinking. And I remember having a life review. And I also remember having this, just this sense of peacefulness, which, I mean, you

• 1:16:01Speaker 07

  would think that somebody who's drowning would be terrified. But there was just this sense of peace and just acceptance. I'll see my life before my eyes, and then the next thing I know, I was rescued. And then, when I was applying to medical school, I was walking across the street. I left the chemistry building, and I was walking across the street on a rainy day with all of these applications in my hand for medical school. And I was hit by somebody.

• 1:16:43Speaker 07

  And the next thing I remember is coming to several hours later after having been unconscious on a neurosurgery floor. And when I came to, initially, I thought that I was having a dream, that I was a patient in a neurosurgery suite. Wow. Because I was applying to medical school to become a neurosurgeon. So I thought, oh, isn't this an interesting dream? And the doctors are like, you're not dreaming, you know? You were in an accident. And so I'm, they kept me in the hospital for observation. I mean, they're coming in, you know, they're coming in and shining the light in my eyes,

• 1:17:27Speaker 07

  you know, every hour and taking my vital signs and they're monitoring me very, very carefully because they were very concerned about me. And I'm there thinking, something is very different. I don't know what to make of this feeling. I, and I was just like, what is this feeling? How am I different? I'm like, oh my God, it's that I believe in God. See, I was raised an atheist. My father was a scientist. I didn't even know about religion. I, I'll back up a little bit and then I'll continue my story. I mean, my father, my earliest memories were at Hanford.

• 1:18:11Speaker 07

  My father was one of the top scientists in studying plutonium and showing that it was harmful to wildlife and helped to end the nuclear testing that was being done in the West, out in the open. And then it was after that, he went to University of Washington, Seattle, does postdoc in cardiovascular physiology, and then eventually became the head of the artificial heart program at the Tel Memorial Institute.

• 1:18:49Speaker 07

  And he was an atheist and wouldn't let our mother, you know, my mother was spiritual, but he wouldn't let her take us to church. So I was not raised with spirituality at all. And so, fast forward to when I'm applying to medical school. But I was always a good person. I mean, I worked for charities, you know, I was a Girl Scout. I always wanted to, you know, help humanity in whatever way I could. And so, so I'm come to in this, you know, neurosurgical floor. And I'm like, I feel different. I feel like, it's like I believe in God.

• 1:19:34Speaker 07

  I'm like, and then I'm like, what? You know, and I'm like, trying to think about the last memory I had before ending up in the hospital. And I remember, you know, and I remember just stepping off the curb. Okay. And then I'm taking my memory back. And then I remembered the conversation I had the night before. And the night before, I was in this math class. I was taking an upper division math class, just because I love math and it was fun to do. And this woman sitting next to me says, where are you applying to graduate school in math? And I said, I'm not applying to graduate school in math. She said, you're not? I said, no. And she said, how could you give away God's gift? You're so gifted at math.

• 1:20:18Speaker 07

  And I said, you believe in God? You've gotten this far in math and you believe in God? And she said, you, you've gotten this far in math and you don't believe in God? And we had this fascinating conversation. And then I said to her, well, I wish I believed in God. And so, I come, I'm playing this back in my mind. And then I had a really, I'm like, oh, my God. Last night, I said, I wish I believed in God and now I believe in God. Wow. But I had no framework for understanding that. I didn't have a clue.

• 1:21:02Speaker 07

  And so, I went on to

• 1:21:06Speaker 07

  I got into medical school, went on, went through all my training. But just like that patient at Harvard that I mentioned, that it was like, oh, I've got to understand, you know, ESP. There was also, because of that experience that I had, where I believed in God, I became a spiritual seeker. And I studied, I read the entire Bible. I studied eastern spiritual traditions. I was basically looking for universal truths because I wanted to have a framework to understand what is even meant by God. And that belief in God never went away.

• 1:21:51Speaker 07

  In fact, it's just gotten, it was more of a knowing rather than a belief. But with no memory of those several hours that I was unconscious. So I have no idea, you know, where I went, what I experienced. And I've had to fill in the blanks, fill in, you know, fill things in on my own. And so it makes me wonder what, what happened. Maybe I had the full-blown experience. And so I spoke with Phyllis Atwater, who was Skip Atwater's daughter. And she's an expert on near-death experiences. In fact, she's studied thousands of cases.

• 1:22:36Speaker 07

  She's had, she's had, I think, three or so of her own. And I'm actually going to be a keynote speaker at the Association for Near Death Studies Conference in Chicago in a week.

• 1:22:50Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:22:52Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. And so anyway, so Phyllis Atwater told me, when she heard my story about being knocked unconscious, she said, oh, that's, that can bring about the same results as a near-death experience. And the reason why I was having this conversation with her was that I attended one of her talks and she put a list up on, she put a slide up with a list of all of the sequelae or the aftermath of having had a near-death experience. And she listed, I don't know, it was like 20 things. And like 16 out of the 20 applied to me. And

• 1:23:36Speaker 07

  they had all started after I had this, this head injury. And then when she said to me, "Oh yeah, no, you're going to have a lot of the same consequences as a result," I thought, "Okay." Now I'm really interested.

• 1:23:54Shawn Ryan?

  I'll bet, I'll bet. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. Let's take a quick break.

• 1:24:03Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:24:04Shawn Ryan?

  And then when we come back, I want to get into everything that you found during your research.

• 1:24:08Speaker 08

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• 1:25:37Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Diane, we're back from the break. And we were getting ready to get into some of the researches you've done with telepathy, ESP, all this stuff. And so, how did you start that?

• 1:25:51Speaker 07

  Well, initially, I was really interested in Savant Syndrome, which is something that's been described in the literature going back well over 200 years. This is where you have an individual who knows things that they've never been exposed to. For example, there was this boy back in 1804, who was, he was five or six years old at the time, and he was just in the field with his father, hadn't been to school yet. And he started saying these mathematical equations and solving them. And he hadn't been taught math. And he was accurate in all of his solutions to these mathematical problems.

• 1:26:36Speaker 07

  And so, the father took him literally on a tour back then, and he was written about. And there have been other cases like that. So, for example, Oliver Sacks, who was a neurologist, he was the person who was, one of his books was the movie Awakenings, which was about severe Parkinson's disease, where people were frozen until the development of L. Dopa, which then unfroze them, and they went from being like statues to being capable of moving. Well, he also wrote a book, The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat, and came out in 1986.

• 1:27:19Speaker 07

  And I got to meet him shortly after he wrote that book. And in it, he describes these autistic young men, who were identical twins, who were institutionalized, who could...

• 1:27:34Speaker 07

  They could spit out prime numbers. And they couldn't do simple arithmetic, but they could give you a six-digit prime number. And then the other one would give you the subsequent prime number. And they'd go back and forth in this game. And Oliver Sacks tested them with prime number tables and was able to determine that they were accurate in their prime number generating skills to 12 digits. And then he had them do it to 20 digits, but the computers at the time couldn't.

• 1:28:12Shawn Ryan?

  20 digits?

• 1:28:13Speaker 07

  20 digits, even though the computers in the 60s couldn't do past 12. And they said that the numbers just appeared to them. They weren't calculating it. They weren't deriving it. And there aren't really that many good algorithms for determining prime numbers in the first place. I mean, you have to literally go through and do all of the division. You have to see, is there anything that this number can be divided by besides itself and one? That's the definition of a prime. And so be able to just spontaneously.

• 1:28:47Shawn Ryan?

  20 digits?

• 1:28:49Speaker 07

  20 digits, yeah. And they could do calendar calculation, which is another savant skill, where if you told them any date going back in time thousands of years or into the future thousands of years, they could tell you what day of the week it would be.

• 1:29:05Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:29:06Speaker 07

  And the answers just came to them. And so when I first heard about savant syndrome, and I thought, well, this is something I really want to study, but it was really, really rare. And it's found most commonly in people who are autistic. And in fact, they estimate that about 10% of people who are autistic have some savant skill. For some of them, they have a musical ability where they can just sit down and play instruments without having to have the same kind of training as someone else. Or they can acquire languages very easily.

• 1:29:43Speaker 07

  There's a famous savant, Daniel Hammett, who he can speak 11 languages. He learned Icelandic in one week.

• 1:29:56Shawn Ryan?

  In one week?

• 1:29:57Speaker 07

  In one week.

• 1:29:59Shawn Ryan?

  Full fluent.

• 1:30:02Speaker 07

  And he, he can recite pi, which is a non-repeating.

• 1:30:08Shawn Ryan?

  Number.

• 1:30:09Speaker 07

  Number, yeah. He can recite it to twenty-two thousand and five hundred digits.

• 1:30:16Shawn Ryan?

  Are you serious?

• 1:30:18Speaker 07

  Yes. And he says that it's not that he memorized it, but that he just sees it like a ticker tape parade in front of him. And each number has a different color and shape associated with it. So it's a condition called synesthesia, which, which almost all, if not all of the autistics I work with have this synesthesia where they, they'll put a color around a number or a letter. And there's something about synesthesia that makes, it makes for superior memory.

• 1:30:54Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean they'll put a color around, like, in the image in their head will be highlighted with a particular color?

• 1:31:00Speaker 07

  Yeah. So there's, so there's two types of, two general types of synesthesia. And in one type, it's what's called the, the projecting type, okay? Where you actually, out here in your, your physical space, you actually see it. And you can't not see it. Okay? In other words, it is, it's, it's a constant accompaniment of that, you know, that, that symbol. Okay? So they just, whenever they see a letter, and it could be in any font, whatever, you know, it's totally independent of that. It will always be that color.

• 1:31:42Speaker 07

  For some, it's, it's, it's numbers, you know, but for some people, it's, that they'll associate, say, you know, like a sound, like a note with a color. It could be any of the senses. And there are other, so sometimes it's projected out here and you experience it as existing out here. And at other times, you experience it internally. And that's what's called associative synesthesia. So, so it happens both ways. But it, but it's, but it's

• 1:32:16Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean it's outside? Like it's projected into their, they see it? Like if I'm looking at you, I see?

• 1:32:22Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, they'll literally, it's like it's superimposed upon, you know, if you

• 1:32:26Shawn Ryan?

  In their vision?

• 1:32:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Versus the vision that we have more internally, where, where it's more of an imagined

• 1:32:36Shawn Ryan?

  It's not their imagination.

• 1:32:38Speaker 07

  It's not their imagination, no, no. They experience it out here.

• 1:32:43Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Have you seen this? In your studies?

• 1:32:48Speaker 07

  Well, I've worked with people who have synesthesia. I, I myself don't have that form of synesthesia, but it's, um, it, it's, uh, it's a fascinating phenomenon.

• 1:33:03Speaker 07

  And so I would, so I was interested in autistic savants. And I wanted to understand, you know, how, you know, what does this tell us about information? And what does this tell us about memory? And so I was invited, after I wrote the ESP Enigma, I was invited to go to India to evaluate several autistic savants over there. And the person who invited me told me that they also had ESP. And so while I was over there, I was testing this one boy for science knowledge.

• 1:33:46Speaker 07

  He, he hadn't been to school, he was five years old, he, he hadn't been to school, he was a non-speaker. And yet his mother said he knows all of this information about science and wants to be a scientist. And so I was asking him these questions and he was giving me answers that were very, you know, accurate. And I was asking him math, you know, that he hadn't studied. And he was, you know, typing onto a keyboard, the answers to these things. And

• 1:34:16Speaker 07

  I was thinking, okay, well, you know, he's a mathematical savant. But then what happened was is right before I was leaving, the person who invited me over said, oh, by the way, he's also telepathic, all of them are. And he said, then they're telepathic with one another. I'm like, what? You know, you're just telling me this now. It wasn't at the time that I could test it. And so when I got back to the United States, I was interviewed on various podcasts and whatnot. And I mentioned that I wanted to study telepathy. And within months, I was contacted by a family who had a daughter that they said was telepathic.

• 1:35:00Speaker 07

  And they asked me if I would be interested in evaluating her. And the story behind how they discovered that she had this ability to read minds was that she was basically being assisted in the home with her homework by these therapists that would come in and do homework with her. And she was non-speaking, but she was able to type independently into a talker. You know, it's like an iPad that has an electronic voice. And they discovered that she was really, really good at math. And the father knew about savant syndrome.

• 1:35:43Speaker 07

  He thought, oh, she's a mathematical savant. And so the therapist was working with her, doing these complex mathematical problems, you know, asking, you know, what's the cube root of, you know, like a six-digit number and things like that. And she would just do it in her head. And then one day, the calculator that the therapist was using, that was, of course, always out of Haley's sight, that calculator died on her. And so she switched to a different calculator. And the answer was given to her in logarithmic notation. And Haley gave the answer in logarithmic notation.

• 1:36:25Shawn Ryan?

  What is algorithmic notation?

• 1:36:29Speaker 07

  Logarithmic notation? Best way to think about it is that it's a...

• 1:36:39Speaker 07

  It's, it's, we, we tend to like, think of numbers as like, you know, like a six-digit number, okay, and it's, and, and that's in base 10, okay. Well, think about if you change it to a different base, like a base 2, the number's gonna look different. That makes sense to you? It, it, it has, it has to do with a different way that you just write down the number.

• 1:37:07Shawn Ryan?

  It's not clicking. It's not clicking for me.

• 1:37:11Speaker 07

  Okay. Let's see if I can explain. Okay.

• 1:37:14Shawn Ryan?

  I'm not a savant.

• 1:37:15Speaker 07

  I know, I know. And, and, and, and, think of it this way, okay. If you have, if you have a number like 1,322, okay. So, that's 1,000, okay, plus 300, plus 20, plus 2, okay. Well, if you were to switch that to a different base, then that number would look very, very different, okay. Because if it's like to, to base 2, and I, you know, I don't want

• 1:37:57Speaker 07

  to take the time to do the calculation in my mind right now, but if you, if you put it in base 2, then the number's gonna be much larger because each one of those numbers represents a different unit. Instead of that 2 being 2 2's, do you understand what I'm saying?

• 1:38:17Shawn Ryan?

  I think so. I think, are you saying that the number would look like 1,000 plus 300 plus 20 plus 2? And that is, is that what you're saying?

• 1:38:28Speaker 07

  No. What, no, what I'm saying is that if you, if you change, you're, you're changing each one of the units that each one of those numbers counts for.

• 1:38:37Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:38:38Speaker 07

  So, so, so if, if you have 1,000, okay, um, that's 10 to

• 1:38:49Speaker 07

  That's 10 cubed.

• 1:38:50Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:38:51Speaker 07

  Right? And so, so, so it's, it's more putting it in that kind of notation.

• 1:38:59Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:39:00Speaker 07

  10, you know, 10 cubed plus then it's.

• 1:39:04Shawn Ryan?

  10 to the power, this to the power, this to the power, to this to the power.

• 1:39:09Speaker 07

  That's right. And so that's what's meant by exponential notation is you're, you're, it just has to do with how it's notated.

• 1:39:15Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:39:16Speaker 07

  And so it's, it's the same number, but it looks very different.

• 1:39:20Shawn Ryan?

  Very complicated way to write 1,320.

• 1:39:23Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. It's, it makes it much more complicated. Right? Right. And so if she was just doing the calculation in her head,

• 1:39:34Speaker 07

  why would she switch it to exponential? Which is even more complicated. That's like adding another layer on to it. Why would she switch it to doing that? When, you know, and, and so the therapist is like, wait a minute, you know, why'd you give it to me an exponential notation? She's like, are you reading my mind? And then Haley goes, yeah, I am.

• 1:39:57Speaker 07

  She said, I see the numerators and denominators in your head. And she goes, really? And she says, well, who's my landlord? And she, she types helmet. That was the name of her landlord. And she says, what am I thinking right now? And she was thinking of the dinosaur Barney and she'd take Barney and she goes, oh my God. And she's like, you are reading my mind. And she didn't, she didn't know what to do with this. She, she was afraid to tell the parents. She thought they, they think she was crazy. But she, she eventually did tell them. And they went and, you know, they, they checked it out for themselves and like, oh my gosh, you know? And then, couple of months later, another therapist who was working with Haley in the house,

• 1:40:42Speaker 07

  discovered that Haley would make the same kind of mistakes.

• 1:40:48Speaker 07

  Spelling mistakes that she would make. You know how some of us like will, you know, we just always like flip certain letters, you know, like we know it's supposed to be I before E except after C, but we still flip it anyway. Well, Haley was making those kind of experiments that were the, those kinds of errors, just like the therapist would make those kind of errors. And she would recognize the error when she saw it, but if I'm going to be the initial, she's like, well, wait a minute, those are the kind of errors I make in spelling. And then she's like, hey, are you reading my mind? And Haley goes, yes, I am. And then she said, well, then how do you say I love you in German? Which the, this therapist had, she, she was fluent in German.

• 1:41:30Speaker 07

  And then Haley typed it out, German for I love you. And she's like, oh, my gosh. And so once again, she was sort of afraid to tell the parents, but then she was relieved when she told them and they said, oh, you know, we already knew that. And so this gave me the opportunity to then go and test her under highly controlled conditions with two separate individuals. And she was 97, 97, 98% accurate. And I tested her with randomized numbers, randomized words, randomized pictures, and

• 1:42:11Speaker 07

  had a barrier, a visual barrier between her and the therapist. And filmed it all with cameras, you know, all around the room, you know, five cameras and covering all sides and up above. So that, you know, if any kind of, you know, just to make sure that if anybody wanted to examine the footage, they could see, you know, whether or not there was any kind of cues or whatever. Had, had the microphone so that if there was any, you know, even slightest little, you know, sounds, that it all get picked up. And

• 1:42:51Speaker 07

  Presented it at scientific conferences and people were blown away by it, but people didn't quite know what to do with it. I mean, this was over 12 years ago that I did those experiments. And since then, I've done experiments on, oh, I don't know, probably, you know, probably at least 20 different autistic individuals. But many of those were virtually, but half of them were in person.

• 1:43:19Shawn Ryan?

  What are some of the other experiments you've done? Are they all the same experiment with different people?

• 1:43:27Speaker 07

  Well, because this claim of telepathy or mind reading is so extraordinary, I mean, people want to see that, oh, you know, is this something that you can reproduce? They want to see it done with other individuals, under different conditions. And so I've continued to do research with other individuals. I've been contacted by probably at least 100 individuals all around the world with the, you know, conviction that their child is reading their mind and, you know, wanting to know what to do about it. Because, I mean, each one of these people were, you know, they were shocked by it.

• 1:44:11Speaker 07

  That's why they reach out to me is that they're, it's not that they were trying to bring, you know, cultivate this in their child or that it was something that was part of their, you know, new age belief system or anything like that. It was that they just stumbled into, onto it, just like these two therapists stumbled onto it. And then they're shocked and they're like, okay, well, what do I do with this information? And then they, of course, they do an internet search and my name would pop up. And they're like, oh, there's somebody with these kind of credentials who's actually studying this. And then they'd contact me. And I was supporting this research out of my own private practice because this is such a controversial area that it's not easy to get funding for.

• 1:44:55Speaker 07

  And I just thought it was easier for me to just, you know, pay for my own expenses to go and visit these people and test out these cases. So, I mean, what's exciting now is that I have other scientists who've been reviewing my video footage of these experiments. And they're convinced that this really is indeed a mind reading.

• 1:45:19Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. I mean, that is fascinating and scary at the same time. I've had my mind read before. It totally freaked me out. Um, I mean, it's your most private.

• 1:45:40Shawn Ryan?

  Whatever. I mean, that's, that's, that is, I mean, what goes on inside your head is the most private thing that you could possibly, you know, fathom.

• 1:45:50Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. Now, let me just say.

• 1:45:53Shawn Ryan?

  It's alarming.

• 1:45:55Speaker 07

  Let me just say that, um, the, these, the autistic individuals don't want to do mind reading with complete strangers.

• 1:46:07Shawn Ryan?

  Is it something that they have to put effort into? They have to concentrate on it? Or, or is it like the numbers that we were talking about earlier that are projected over the top of their vision? Where it's, I mean, is it just, do they automatically pick up on it? Or do they, do they have to concentrate, put effort into, all right, we're gonna do this. I'm gonna read your mind?

• 1:46:31Speaker 07

  Well, I, it's possible that there are some who might just not have any control over it. And it might just be something that they just experience. I really don't know. I can't rule that out as a possibility. But I do know that the individuals I work with, they are protective of themselves as much as anything else. It's in other words, they don't want to merge their consciousness with just anybody.

• 1:46:58Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh, uh huh.

• 1:47:00Speaker 07

  And, and so they have to like you and trust you to want to do that.

• 1:47:06Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:47:06Speaker 07

  It's like, it's like, it's like a boundary issue, you know, just like, like, you might feel violated to have somebody enter your, your psychological, you know, space and, and read your thoughts. Well, not everybody wants to enter your thoughts.

• 1:47:22Shawn Ryan?

  That's good to know.

• 1:47:26Speaker 07

  You know, and so there's this, so there's this sense of, you know, personal space that, you know, that, you know, that we have. And, and they are, they want to,

• 1:47:40Speaker 07

  when, when they love somebody, they want to merge with them. I mean, there's this tendency when you love somebody, that you want to merge with them.

• 1:47:50Speaker 07

  And, you know, there's all those, you know, love songs and not about how, you know, two hearts beat as one and whatnot, you know, where we're, you know, you're, you're really wanting to be in sync with someone. And so, so that these autistic individuals

• 1:48:04Speaker 07

  have the mind-reading, you know, abilities show up in the context of somebody that they're really feel bonded with and somebody that they spend a lot of time with. But what's interesting though, is that one of my research colleagues, who was a total skeptic about all of this. And he was raised Catholic and he also was, and is devout Catholic. And he also was like, oh, you know, my family better not know, think that I'm doing this because this is like, you know, forbidden territory. He was, he was curious and wanted to, you know, witness one of my experiments. And he, after seeing it, he was like, oh my God, this is real. He's like, what do I do?

• 1:48:49Speaker 07

  This, this really is real. And it was sort of freaking him out. And he, he said to this, this girl, Lydia is her name. He said to her, can you read my mind? And she said, mhm. And, and he said, okay. He said, what am I thinking? And he typed a word, put it into his phone, showed it to the cam and then shut his phone off. And then she typed the word and then he totally was done. But it was one of those things that what she she really liked him felt he really, I mean, she could she could feel his appreciation for her.

• 1:49:34Speaker 07

  She could feel, I mean, he truly was having this heartfelt.

• 1:49:38Shawn Ryan?

  It's like a supernatural instinct.

• 1:49:42Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. And he was and he and so he was just feeling very, very, you know, close with her. She felt close to him and and he was able to, you know, have her read his mind. Now, what's interesting is that I've seen people who've witnessed one of my experiments who go from, oh, you know, I didn't know this was possible to, oh, now I'm convinced it's possible, actually start to have some of these experiences themselves. So what's interesting is the degree to which our belief system filters out what we experience.

• 1:50:21Speaker 07

  If we don't believe something is possible, we're less likely to experience it. And this has been one of the confounding variables in parapsychology research because if you have people who are parapsychologists who believe in this stuff because you've already had your own experiences or had other, you know, experiments that you've witnessed, then you're more likely to actually have favorable results. You really actually have more favorable results. This gets back to that sort of psychokinesis thing that I talked about earlier where where

• 1:51:02Speaker 07

  our thoughts can can have an impact on the outcome of things. And but similarly, if you're a diehard skeptic that you're just like, you know, you cross your arms and you're just like, show me, and I don't believe in this stuff, then it may

• 1:51:20Speaker 07

  Shut the whole experiment down. And in fact, when we were filming the telepathy tapes, there was this, one of Kai's camera crew was a diehard skeptic. And there was a short period of time there when we weren't getting the kind of results we were getting before. And so Kai asked this person to leave, you know, just go out to your car and get, you know, cut us some space. And then the experiment started going well again. And so it's fascinating to think about how it's like, how powerful our consciousness

• 1:52:00Speaker 07

  can be in kind of shaping the reality we experience. And I think that that's really, really, really important for people to contemplate. I mean, there's, you know, people talk about the law of attraction, which is, you know, this idea that, you know, if you're, if you're thinking about something or you want something, you may attract that into your life. And, you know, it, I mean, there's limitations to all of that, of course. But I think, I think a more appropriate law to think about as opposed to the law of attraction

• 1:52:45Speaker 07

  is actually more the law of assumption, which is something that has been written about as well. And the law of assumption is more that, check what your assumptions are. Check about what your actual beliefs are, that you just, that you, you treat this assumption as a fact, when it really is just a belief. And if it's a limiting belief, see, see if that limitation really is a limitation that's just based on, you know, attitude.

• 1:53:17Speaker 07

  Or is it a reality-based limitation? And if you start peeling away those things that are assumptions that are really more of an attitudinal issue, and you start saying, "Well, no, I'm not gonna let that apply to me. No, I'm not. That's a limiting belief. That's a limiting belief because I had a critical father, or that's a limiting belief because I had a teacher at school who didn't believe in me," or whatever, and just say, "No, I refuse to accept that," and defy those assumptions, you'll actually see that things will go better for you.

• 1:54:00Shawn Ryan?

  I know you're right on that. I mean, they say assuming things is a bad thing to do, but, I mean, with this mind-reading telepathy stuff, I mean, I could see that as a blessing and a curse at the same time. I mean, if you're... Everybody has bad or evil thoughts. Please, I have a lot of them. And, you know, if I had a child who could read my mind, I don't know if I would wish that on somebody, because

• 1:54:40Shawn Ryan?

  you get angry, not necessarily just at the child, you get angry at your wife, you get angry at the other child, you get angry at friends. I mean, you have... I don't wanna call them fantasies, but, you know, you have... you imagine yourself doing things to people that hurt your family, maybe, or, you know, and, I mean, to have a child that has access into that, I mean, they would see or experience thoughts that you wouldn't want a five-year-old,

• 1:55:20Shawn Ryan?

  eight-year-old, ten-year-old, you know, to think about. Those could be sexual thoughts, those could be thoughts of violence, those could be...

• 1:55:31Shawn Ryan?

  Fantasies that you want to experience, anything. You know, and so do they tap into that? Is that?

• 1:55:41Speaker 07

  Well, that's, that's one of the reasons that a lot of people contact me as well is it's not only do they go through the ontological shock of, wait a minute, how is this even possible? But oftentimes, they're, they're going, oh, my gosh, I don't want my child to be reading my mind. They're, they're, they're really going, my thoughts aren't always positive. And, and there's a lot of, you know, it's kind of like, you know, it's like, it's being naked in a way that people are more comfortable being physically naked than they are being naked in that way.

• 1:56:21Speaker 07

  And so, one of the things that happens is that the parents of these children at first have that reaction oftentimes, not always, but, but oftentimes, they go through their own spiritual transformation because they, they have to out of necessity. And what I mean by that is they really do a lot of house cleaning. You know, a lot of what we need to do with, to evolve ourselves, to be good people, is

• 1:57:02Speaker 07

  we need to be able to look at our shadow, look at that which we don't really want to see about ourselves. So Carl Jung talked about, talked about the shadow. And it, and if we don't see it about ourselves, we tend to project it onto other people. And, oh, I don't like that. Ever notice that, ever notice that people will say, oh, I don't like her because she's a liar? And then you think, well, you're kind of a liar yourself. You know, or whatever, you know, you, you, you'll, you'll see that people will tend to kind of project on other people that which they don't want to see about themselves. And so, when you face your own shadow.

• 1:57:47Speaker 07

  And look at the things that you, if you saw it about yourself you wouldn't like about yourself, you're bringing it to an awareness that enables you to change that about yourself. If you really don't like that, then why, you know, why, what? Are you really evolving yourself spiritually if you're just keeping the blinders on, saying, "I'm only gonna look at myself this way and I'm not gonna look at the things that I don't wanna look at about myself." And so what happens is, is that these parents will tell you, they become better people as a result of their child, and they are so grateful to their child for doing that.

• 1:58:27Speaker 07

  And this gets, this gets back to something you brought up in the other, the first half of this, which is this generational trauma thing. A lot of these autistic children who are here today say they're here to help evolve humanity. They're, they're, they say that, that they, that they are here on the planet right now because they feel it's, you know, that they're on a mission to help evolve humanity and to help bring us to a different place, and to bring us to a place that's more loving, more respectful of life.

• 1:59:10Speaker 07

  You know, to actually usher in a time period that's more in keeping with what Christ tried to usher in.

• 1:59:20Shawn Ryan?

  And where do they say that? What would you call that? Would you call that an intuition? Where do they tap into?

• 1:59:30Speaker 07

  Oh, they'll tell you that they talk with God. That they're, they didn't lose connection. You know, like, there's this idea that when we die, in Christianity, that we return to Source. You know, we go back to be united with God in heaven, if we've been a good person. You know, it depends upon, you know, what, you know, what do you do with your free will in this lifetime? You know, there's a certain, there's a certain amount of our path that's just laid out for us. And then, and then, but we also have free will. And what do you do with that free will?

• 2:00:10Speaker 07

  And so, what we oftentimes do is if we're all is focused on self and service to self and not service to others, then we're fulfilling a life that is really just more, it's more secular, even if we believe in God, you're still really predominantly living a fairly secular life if all you're thinking about is your own pleasures and what brings you joy without thinking about the greater good and whatnot. That brings us closer to God.

• 2:00:52Speaker 07

  People will tell you that they feel so much better when they're giving. You know, those cliches, it's better to give than to receive. I actually see how people, when they're in a giving space, feel better. And so I think that they're not disconnected from Source. All of us can be connected as well, but we have to look at what are we doing that disconnects us?

• 2:01:23Shawn Ryan?

  Do they have other communication with God, with Jesus, with Source, whatever they're...

• 2:01:34Speaker 07

  Yeah, they talk about being in communication with Jesus, they talk about being in communication with angels.

• 2:01:40Shawn Ryan?

  What kind of communications?

• 2:01:42Speaker 07

  Two-way conversations.

• 2:01:45Shawn Ryan?

  Two-way conversations? Any specific examples that stick out in your head that you want to bring up?

• 2:01:51Speaker 07

  It's mainly, it's really mainly a message of how we need to be more loving. It really is about that. It really, it pains these autistic individuals that there's so much disharmony in the world. It really does.

• 2:02:17Shawn Ryan?

  It pains me too.

• 2:02:20Shawn Ryan?

  Is this free conversation? Or is this, you know, in, for example psychedelics. I have a lot of friends that use psychedelics. It's for brain injury, for PTS, for all that stuff.

• 2:02:38Shawn Ryan?

  Talked to a lot of really big, successful businessmen and women as well. And a handful of them are very interested and partake in psychedelics. And a commonality that I hear, a term that I hear used often is like a download. I got a download to an answer of something that I'm looking for. Whether that be personal life, business life, it could be anything.

• 2:03:08Shawn Ryan?

  Is that what the, what the conversations are like? Are they like a download? Or can they tap in at any moment in time and ask a question?

• 2:03:20Speaker 07

  I think, I think there's a little bit of both. I mean, but definitely they describe having downloads.

• 2:03:28Speaker 07

  Absolutely. And there are a lot of parallels between the experiences people report when they take psychedelics and the experiences that these autistic individuals report. That, I mean, they're not taking psychedelics. But it's as though their, their own, their system itself is already running, you know, that circuitry that psychedelics activate. And they report being out of their body a lot of the time. You know, something we call dissociation. You know, and that's something that, I mean, remote viewers, you know, some of them do astral projection, you know, they, they say that they leave the embodied perspective and,

• 2:04:13Speaker 07

  you know, their consciousness, you know, becomes disembodied. Well, these, these kids describe themselves as, you know, sort of being out of their body a lot of the time. And, you know, very just tenuously tethered to it. Another thing that they've reported is synesthesia, you know, which like, like the kaleidoscope colors that you can, you know, experience with various visuals, you know, symbols or, you know, sounds or whatever. So that's something you see with psychedelics.

• 2:04:46Speaker 07

  And telepathy, telepathy is something that people on psychedelics have also reported.

• 2:04:52Shawn Ryan?

  I've heard this, I've heard this as well.

• 2:04:54Speaker 07

  Yeah, and, and, and this concept of the hill, which is talked about in the telepathy tapes, where you have all of these non-speaking autistic individuals who say that they, they meet at a regular basis at the hill. And, you know, the hill is not really a physical place. It's a place, it's, it's, it's, it's a realm that you have various mystics talk about. And I've heard people on psychedelics describe that it's like they go someplace where it's like, there are all these other beings there, the other individuals there, you know, from,

• 2:05:34Speaker 07

  from wherever, you know, all over, that you just all come to, you know, some kind of non-physical convergence somewhere. So it's, so the parallels are very, very striking.

• 2:05:48Shawn Ryan?

  So, these specific autistic folks that you're speaking of, they basically live in that realm all the time. They don't have to take something to switch it on. It's just always on.

• 2:06:02Speaker 07

  Exactly. And so how functional would you be?

• 2:06:08Shawn Ryan?

  A lot more functional, I think. But, I mean, so does the, does the, does the everyday, average, common human being, I mean, do we have these abilities? And so, you know, when we're talking about telepathy, I mean, I've had more times than I can count where, where a coincidence will happen, where, here's an example. There was an individual that I worked with at, at the agency. I hadn't spoken to him in probably over 15 years. And for whatever reason, oh, I was, I think I had talked about this on the show at some point in time, but I was, um...

• 2:06:52Shawn Ryan?

  Looking for like a master furniture maker, woodworker, somebody to make a piece of furniture for us. And this guy had a side project outside of contracting that was, he made beautiful, like one of a kind furniture pieces. And I remember his name popped up in my head. I won't say his whole name because I don't know where he's at now, but his first, I was like, I wonder what Dave's doing these days. You know, and I thought about that on my drive to work. I was like, I wonder if I should reach out to him and see if he would want to craft one of these things. I pull into the office, only like a 20 minute drive. And I pull into my office, and I look at my phone, and David just texted me.

• 2:07:34Shawn Ryan?

  Now, mind you, I just mentioned, I haven't talked to this guy in 15 years. And he said, "Hey, Sean, just want to see how you're doing. I don't know if this is still your number, da, da, da, da, da, da. Very interested in the psychedelic therapy that you've been talking about on your show, and I think it might help me. Could we have a conversation about that?" And I was like, what? Like, I have not even, his, he had, he had not even popped, we weren't close. We had worked together maybe one time, you know, and we go through all these years, he's not a person that pops into my head, ever. And it just happened

• 2:08:15Shawn Ryan?

  that that day, he had popped into my head. And, and I mean, that, to me, there are no coincidences. I mean, I'm sure I wasn't in his head much either, you know, until, you know, the podcast started to get big, maybe, but, I mean, that, and I could go on and on about specific examples like that, but that's just the first one that popped into my head. So are we able to tap into that? Was that some type of telepathic communication?

• 2:08:43Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, I, I believe so. I mean, telepathy may not be the best word for it, because a lot of people have certain ideas what that means. But, but absolutely, it, it, it's showing us this interconnection. I had, I had a very similar experience.

• 2:09:05Speaker 07

  Ten months ago, when this woman that I, who used to be the receptionist in the group practice that I was briefly in in San Diego, contacted me out of the blue, first time that she had contacted me in thirty years. And it was my birthday. And what was interesting about her contact, she didn't know it was my birthday, number one. Number two, I had just told someone about her the week before.

• 2:09:44Speaker 07

  And I hadn't thought about her for ages, but this story came up in my mind that made me think about her. And so in telling that story, I brought her up. And then when she contacted me, she says, well, the universe has been pinging me, telling, you know, meaning, you know, she just like, she just started getting it in her head of, you know, you should try to get a hold of, you know, Diane Powell. You know, she's like, you know, and so she, you know, she looked me up and, you know, found a way to contact me through my website.

• 2:10:21Speaker 07

  And it turns out that she has a son who's autistic. And she had had her own psychic experiences with her son. But this was before the telepathy tapes, that she didn't know, this just before the telepathy tapes started, she didn't, she didn't know about my research and what I was currently doing. And so it's like, hmm, very interesting that. And this was when I knew her, she was only, she was only eighteen, nineteen years old, so she hadn't had a child yet. So, I mean, it was just, so, yeah, that, you know, what do you call these kind of,

• 2:11:01Speaker 07

  you know, synchronicities, you know, they're, they're very, they're very powerful when they happen to us. And I think that

• 2:11:14Speaker 07

  We, you know, we, they show us that things are not so random as they appear. I mean, that, that's, that, that there is, that there really is more order to the universe than we tend to think. That, you know, the way, the, as a therapist, he's worked with a lot of people who've suffered deeply. One of the things that I've seen is that if people have enough time to really, you know, work through things and process things, oftentimes they see that even the things that were horrible that happened to us actually were, oftentimes, they, they played a huge

• 2:11:58Speaker 07

  role in our development.

• 2:12:00Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:12:01Speaker 07

  And, and, and people oftentimes can get to the place where they, they, they wouldn't want it any other way, even as painful as it was. They, they, they, they see how that played a huge role in making them who they are now. You know, oftentimes, all of the suffering that people have actually drives them to a place of deeper spirituality. And, and, and, and so, because I've given a lot of thought to, you know, why do we suffer so much? Why, you know, why is that, you know, just so, you know, common to the human experience? And what I've seen is that that, it's, it's through the suffering that it forces us to

• 2:12:44Speaker 07

  really start asking deep questions. And, and oftentimes, it creates this sort of opening for us to take in a different way of, of thinking about things or approaching life that otherwise, we would just kind of continue to sort of stumble along, you know, go, you know, gotta make the donuts, kind of, you know, just, you know, another day, another, you know, and just certainly live this more prosaic, less meaningful life. It's these things that happen that make us stand back and go, oh, okay, wait a minute, what was that? That create this opportunity.

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• 2:14:27Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, what do you think about things like manifestation, you know, manifesting things into your life? I mean, does that fall in line with any of this stuff? When you're thinking about somebody and they call you or you want to? Whatever it could be.

• 2:14:46Speaker 07

  Absolutely. I mean, I think that it could be that when we think about somebody, okay, we're sending out a signal, you know? And it's just like, you know, we think of it this way, on a below the sort of direct perception with our sensors, that we have kind of like a radar for certain things. And one of the things that we have a radar for is when somebody is focusing on us. You know, and examples of this are.

• 2:15:28Speaker 07

  You know, if somebody calls your name. You might, people can say a lot of different things and you can stay occupied with whatever it is that you're doing at that moment. But when somebody says your name, it's like, it grabs your attention. So it's like you always have this little kind of radar out there for your name. As controversial as it is, there's a lot of people who swear by the research supporting the idea that if somebody is staring at you, okay, that you know it, you know, they could be behind you, but they're staring at you and you, you know it. So, and then you, you turn and you look at them, okay?

• 2:16:08Speaker 07

  So, there's something about our identifying somebody by, you know, name, picture, you know, you know, you know, whatever, you know, identifying factors they are, there are. It's like, it's like our, it's like our GPS on that person, okay? Just, just like the remote viewers were able to use geophysical coordinates.

• 2:16:38Speaker 07

  And, you know, so many degrees north and, you know, north and south versus east and west, and then hone in on a target and draw it reasonably, you know, accurately. It's like similarly, when we evoke somebody's name or image, that's like a, it's like a compass needle pointing at them, okay? And, and then if we have this like intention, you know, whatever that intention is of, oh, you know, like for the remote viewer, it's a, well, I, I intend to draw what it is I see. Or, or the intention could be just as simple as the thought of, well, I wonder what, you

• 2:17:22Speaker 07

  know, I wonder what Dave's up to these days, or whatever, whatever happened to Dave? Or, yeah, no, and it's just like a fleeting thought that you have. It's still, it's like, it's like, it's like a, it's almost like it's a message that's got a, you know, and, and then the universe somehow, it's, it's pretty magical, you know, but the universe somehow is like that individual gets that message. And, and it's, all of this is below conscious awareness. And that that individual just kind of picks up on it without even knowing why they're picking up on it. And it it all feels like, you know, to to that individual, just it it usually feels

• 2:18:05Speaker 07

  like it is just their idea, you know, just kind of like, oh, I just had this random thought that I thought, you know, I'd uh call, you know, call Sean today or whatever. But after you've had these experiences over and over again, people start to trust that, oh, when I, this feels slightly different than what it feels like when I bring up the thought of somebody, when the thought of them just pops into my mind. And they, and that's what this woman meant by pinging, you know, it's just like, it felt different. And when you start to pay attention to those things, you're you're getting more in touch

• 2:18:50Speaker 07

  with your intuition. I I know for myself, and I've heard this from many individuals, that when you have a certain thought that comes in, it's like people say it's a little voice or whatever. I mean, it it's like, that says to do something, you you pay attention to it.

• 2:19:07Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 2:19:08Speaker 07

  You know, because that little voice could be what makes you just all of a sudden decide, oh, I'm not going to change lanes. And then and then a truck whizzes by, you know, and you realize, oh, boy, you know, I was about to change lanes, and then something in me stopped me.

• 2:19:22Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 2:19:23Speaker 07

  You know, or like I had it with my computer, you know, I just, you know, I was like, one day, you know, I was just like, oh, you know, you haven't backed up your computer for a while, you know, you you better back it up. And it's like, eh, you know, it was an inconvenient time to go and, you know. Do what I need to do to back it up, but I just paid attention to that and then lo and behold, my computer crashed later that day and it's a good thing I had backed it up.

• 2:19:50Shawn Ryan?

  Well, you hear a lot about this with people going on planes too. Oh, I had a weird feeling, I didn't want to get on the flight and then the plane crashed or lots of stuff like that.

• 2:19:58Speaker 07

  Right, and so there's somehow, there's like a, there's like a little intuition there, you know, so in all of this is, it's, it's, it's not in that sort of analytical, you know, left hemisphere, logical, you know, way of processing things, it's coming, you know, from somewhere else.

• 2:20:20Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:20:21Speaker 07

  And we, we become so, you know, you know, head centric, you know, that we, you know, that we, we tend to ignore any information that's coming from, you know, a feeling or this or that, and, and, and I, I think that's a mistake. We, we, we need to learn how to, how do we have it all work together? You know, I mean, sometimes our feelings are, you know, maybe if we have an anxiety issue, we can't trust all of our feelings because sometimes those feelings might not be really associated with what's going on in the here and now, it could be really a feeling that's a carryover from something, you know, from another time, you know, we had, but you know, that's where your analytical skills can enter in and go, you know, is

• 2:21:05Speaker 07

  this, this, is this an appropriate, why am I feeling this now, is this appropriate to, you know, what's going on right now? So that's one, one aspect, but there's also just this intuition that's just more of a, you know, just something tells me, and you don't need to know what that something is.

• 2:21:23Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:21:24Speaker 07

  It's somehow, you're getting information that's non-local and it was important enough that it entered into your awareness.

• 2:21:33Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think that, I mean, it's, it sounds like there's a lot more prevalent in, in folks that have autism, and so are they able to, and, and a lot of times when I see signs or something like that happens, things are slow, I'm able to be more into the moment, and it's, it's almost like...

• 2:21:56Shawn Ryan?

  Maybe I'm able to organize my brain at the time and compartmentalize certain things. Whereas, you know, when it's, when it's busy and a lot of things are on my mind, maybe they're bothering me, maybe I'm stressing about them, you know, maybe there's a lot of business happening, maybe there's a lot of stuff going on at home, you know, and I'm not, I'm not, I'm always thinking about the future. That's, that's, that's a problem that I have. I'm just always thinking about the future and planning and making moves and whatever, right? And so what I'm wondering is, are autistic people able to organize their brains and thoughts and compartmentalize certain issues, problems, you know,

• 2:22:35Shawn Ryan?

  things that are going on in their lives and completely separate from them to where that they live more in the moment? That's, that's not a thing.

• 2:22:45Speaker 07

  No, no, they're not, they're not real good at compa- I wouldn't say they're good at compartmentalizing at all. I mean, they spend a lot of time in overwhelm.

• 2:22:53Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:22:54Speaker 07

  Um, you know, think of them more as not having much in the way of filters.

• 2:22:58Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:22:59Speaker 07

  Um, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What's, what's, one of the things about autistic individuals is also that their experience of time is different from ours.

• 2:23:16Shawn Ryan?

  How so?

• 2:23:18Speaker 07

  They feel that we are very, very slow. They, they are operating at a much faster mental speed. And one of the things that's interesting is that, I mean, the spellers are, you know, painstakingly slow sometimes, you know, in terms of how long it takes for them to get a thought out. But there's a huge contrast between that speed, which is slower than we would go, and the speed that they're running on. They, they, they'll tell you that they're just, this helps them to slow down enough to actually connect with us. It's like they, they can't, it's hard for them to be in that middle ground.

• 2:24:00Speaker 07

  And we have experimental evidence that their concept of time, not only do they report it as different, but we have experimental evidence that they experience it differently because of something called the flicker fusion frequency. And what that is, is that it's the, so if you have a light- Okay, this light is not constant, okay? It's flickering, okay? But if it's above a certain frequency, we experience it as Continuous. Continuous. So the flicker fusion frequency is the frequency threshold at which you don't experience it as continuous.

• 2:24:44Speaker 07

  And theirs is different than ours. Really? Yes. So, so it's, yeah, so it's, it's, it's, and if you think about it, in altered states of consciousness, we experience time differently. In the dreaming state, you, you can have a dream that only lasts two minutes, but it covers stuff that you couldn't do in two minutes. It could cover, would, would take, you know, hours for that whole thing to, you know,

• 2:25:27Speaker 07

  but it's condensed down into two minutes. Another example is when we're, when we've got a huge adrenaline surge because of some, some emergency that's come up. Time dilates, and we can do in 20 seconds what would normally take us 10, 15 times that amount of time to do, okay? And so our perception of time unfolding, the way that we, you know, that it's how

• 2:26:10Speaker 07

  we experience it, our perception of time is really, you know, a product of brain functioning. And, you know, we know from Einstein that in our, it's an illusion. That, that, that, that it's not, that it just only goes in one direction.

• 2:26:35Speaker 07

  And in fact, there are physicists who say, who talk about something called the Bloch universe, which is really that the past, present, and future all coexist. So it's though that, like, the movie's already in the can, you know, and then we're just, you know, only seeing it frame by frame. And this is something that philosophers and physicists debate is, you know, not only, you know, okay, is there this evidence that, you know, that past, present, and future all coexist, how dynamic is it? Because there are physicists who will say that just because they all coexist doesn't

• 2:27:16Speaker 07

  mean that the future is predetermined. And there are even people who say that the past isn't predetermined, you know, it's already, it's not already determined either. So, so there's all of these things that come out of these models within quantum physics that are, I mean, they're really hard, you know, for your average person to wrap their head around. But it's because of these phenomena where you have people who claim to time travel, which these autistic individuals claim to time travel, it's because of individuals like that, that we, we see that there might actually be, you know, some human experiences that

• 2:27:59Speaker 07

  validate some of these things that, you know, came up with, from theories that are over 100 years old, about the nature of reality.

• 2:28:10Shawn Ryan?

  How do they experience time travel?

• 2:28:13Speaker 07

  Oh, they, they, a lot of these individuals are very precognitive. They'll have, they'll have experiences of something that hasn't happened yet.

• 2:28:30Speaker 07

  And like, one of, one of the best examples is this, this, this young woman named Elsa, who was in the telepathy tapes. And she had this vision that her father was, slipped on ice and broke his hip and ended up in the hospital. Well, at the time, they were living in Arizona, and that didn't look like that was a very likely possibility. But then what happened is, you know, within three to four weeks, he was on a business trip and he slipped on ice and broke his hip and ended up in the hospital.

• 2:29:08Speaker 07

  Wow. So she had that experience before it already happened. And something that Phyllis Atwater, who I mentioned earlier, who's the expert on near-death experiences, but one of the things that she's written about is something called future memory. And future memory is, she's had experiences of this herself, and people can have these experiences on nitrous oxide, you know, laughing gas can sometimes bring about this, where you literally go to some point in the future, experience something, and then come back

• 2:29:53Speaker 07

  into, you know, this time period.

• 2:29:57Speaker 07

  And, you know, and you're only gone for, you know, seconds, you know, at most, in terms of, you know, and so you're not, you're, you're aware of the fact that something's happened because she, she describes it as there's like this, you know, like scintillating, you know, lights, you know, there's like all these visual things she sees first before things shift, and then she finds herself somewhere in the future in her life. And then, and then that closes up, and then she's back in this, this time period. When that future event comes around, it's much, it's not just déjà vu, it's not just that individual going, oh, this seems familiar. It's literally, oh, I'm here now. Okay. And, and you know exactly what people are going to say, who's going to walk through

• 2:30:42Speaker 07

  the door, everything. And so it's, it's like you saw a preview of that section of the movie reel in advance, and now you're there.

• 2:30:57Speaker 07

  And it's, it's, it's something that she has many, many, many examples of this. And so that's, that's, I'd say the predominant type of time travel that these kids do is really more into the future rather than into the past.

• 2:31:16Shawn Ryan?

  Have you, have you seen this actually happen personally and throughout your studies? Have you seen any incidents?

• 2:31:24Speaker 07

  Um, well, I've just heard anecdotes, but one of the things that I want to do is I want to test them for precognition. Um, I've, I've seen people email me with a prediction and then email me later with, "Okay, that prediction, see, I told you." That kind of thing.

• 2:31:50Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:31:51Speaker 07

  One of the problems about precognition though is that usually for people who do this kind of time travel, I mean, time is so, I mean, time is a strange concept to them. And, and precognition doesn't really give you, it's not like there's a calendar date that comes along with it so that you know exactly when it's going to happen. So you don't, so when Elsa had that, you know, vision of her father, I mean, she didn't know if it was going to happen, you know, in two weeks and, and two years. You, you just don't know. And, and so, uh, it'd be nice if there was a timestamp on it, but, but generally there isn't.

• 2:32:35Shawn Ryan?

  Uh, the reason I'm asking is I'm just curious, you know, what, what do they, what state do they appear to be in while this is happening? And is it a blank stare? They're not there right now?

• 2:32:49Speaker 07

  Uh.

• 2:32:50Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, you, it happens to me a lot. I don't know if it's from...

• 2:32:55Shawn Ryan?

  Tremendous TBIs and PTS, you know, a lot of, there's a lot of times where I'll just be sitting there and I'm, I'm not there, and I'm not saying I can do this and I'm not trying to relate, but I'm just, you know, I know that there are times where I, I, I'm out, I'm out, and, and my, my wife and kids are like, what the hell's wrong with that?

• 2:33:17Speaker 07

  Right, right, yeah, it's, it's basically a checking out, yeah, yeah, no, I, I've seen, I've seen them do that, I mean, generally, when I'm around though, they're, they're very attentive, you know, because I'm, I'm there, but, but, but, yeah, definitely, they, they, they check out.

• 2:33:32Shawn Ryan?

  That's what it's like.

• 2:33:33Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 2:33:34Shawn Ryan?

  It's like they're not there.

• 2:33:35Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's, it's like, hello?

• 2:33:37Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:38Speaker 07

  Uh-huh, yeah, there, and that's what it's like, their conscious awareness, see, that's what we're noticing, when somebody is checked out, you realize that their awareness is not on some sensory input that's here. The awareness has gone somewhere in the mental spa, you know, the mental imagination, or, you know, but it's gone into something that is not the here and now. And, and, and so, so much of this is about where do you put your awareness? Are you so captivated by what is being presented to you by your sensory system that you, you're

• 2:34:21Speaker 07

  just drawn in? Or I'm so captivated by what you're having to say that I'm just giving you my every ounce of attention? Or do you have a certain percentage of attention that when you're doing something is like thinking, okay, now, what, what is it I'm supposed to do right after the, you know? And so, a lot of people are walking around with divided attention, and then just think of it as, what percentage of your attention is in the here and now, what's right here that I'm attending to versus this other thing? And it, it's the whole scale from, you know, zero to a hundred percent.

• 2:35:02Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. What is déjà vu? You brought that up.

• 2:35:06Speaker 07

  It's this, it's this feeling that it, that you've already seen something. You know, vu is, you know, from vision in, in, in French, you know, déjà already, you know? So it's like, I already saw this.

• 2:35:20Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:35:21Speaker 07

  You know, like, oh, I've been here before. Or, oh, I met you before. And in fact, I met you here before. Oh, this feels so familiar.

• 2:35:31Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:35:31Speaker 07

  And...

• 2:35:32Shawn Ryan?

  We all experience that.

• 2:35:34Speaker 07

  We all experience it to some degree. And it's something that people who have temporal lobe epilepsy, which, I mean, the temporal lobes are the section of the brain that's like on the sides here, you know, that right, right along here, okay? It's interesting that it's called temporal lobe, you know, because tempest is time. And, and the temporal lobe, if you have seizure activity in it, you can have people that go on fugue states. So a fugue state is where you have somebody who just, they're not there, they're checked out, and yet they can engage in all, almost like sleepwalking, they can engage in all

• 2:36:19Speaker 07

  kinds of complex activities. They can, they can buy it, they can even go to the airport, buy a ticket, get on a plane, fly somewhere, book a hotel and be staying there, and then three days later go, how did I get here? Have no recall of any of that. So that's called a fugue state, and, and people with temporal lobe epilepsy can have that. Well, people who have, you know, a little bit of temporal lobe issues can also have a lot of déjà vu experiences. So, so there's something about, you know, the temporal lobe, that if you have abnormal

• 2:37:04Speaker 07

  or excessive activity in it, that it, it, it really kind of takes you out of the here and, and now, kind of puts you into some, you know, just non-local consciousness.

• 2:37:20Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 2:37:23Shawn Ryan?

  How are they communicating with each other?

• 2:37:29Speaker 07

  They say they communicate telepathically with one another.

• 2:37:32Shawn Ryan?

  All of them?

• 2:37:34Speaker 07

  The autistic individuals? Well, all of the ones I work with report that. So I can only, I can't generalize to, I mean, there's a lot of non-speaking autistic individuals in the world. I mean, we probably have a million in the US alone. And where I get that number is that about 5 million people in the US are diagnosed as having autism now, and a quarter of them are non-speaking. So that's quite a few individuals. And I'm only currently working with maybe three or four dozen, you know, are ones that I'm in, you know, regular, you know, contact with.

• 2:38:18Speaker 07

  So that's a tiny, tiny percentage. So I don't want to generalize from them to the entire non-speaking autistic world. But the ones that I'm working with are, who are, it's self-selected. It's their families contacted me, or their teachers contacted me, because they said, "This kid's doing the kind of things you research, and so I want you to meet my kid and, you know, tell me what you think, and help me deal with whatever's coming up for them as a result of it." So I really, I have no idea, you know, how many are out there. But I do know that the ones who contact me, they say that they're in contact with other non-speakers.

• 2:38:59Speaker 07

  And they'll, many of them will say that all of them can, but I, I mean, it's really, there's a lot more to be explored.

• 2:39:08Shawn Ryan?

  But you've seen this happen. You've seen them communicate with each other.

• 2:39:11Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:39:15Shawn Ryan?

  Can you describe some of the research that you've done on this?

• 2:39:18Speaker 07

  Well, so, so there are these, these individuals, so some of the, so there are these clusters, the ones that I find that the most compelling evidence for really are the ones that, who already know one another. I hear these anecdotes about, you know, there's someone named, you know, you know, Peter in Florida who's in contact with somebody named Ian in Ireland, that kind of a thing, you know, but it's just like, I mean, how do I know, you know?

• 2:39:49Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, prove it.

• 2:39:50Speaker 07

  They, how do I, but what I've heard is from teachers that work with these students on a regular basis, I've heard them tell me about evidence of telepathy within these kids. And so, one of my favorite stories is, comes from this cluster of kids that are in Florida, and they've, they've known each other, they're all minimally or non-speaking autistic individuals, there's about nine of them, and they've been going to this school and have known one another for about seven years. And, one day, at school, they were,

• 2:40:34Speaker 07

  they were doing, you know, they were doing math tests, okay, and all of the kids were scoring a hundred percent on the, on the math tests, and one of the teachers got kind of suspicious and was just like, hmm, you know, they're not all this good at math, this seems a little bit suspicious here, you know. And, so, so she found out that, you know, that these kids, that they were all, they knew that Emma was really good at math, and so they were just cheating by, you know, telepathically seeing, well, what is, how's Emma answering these, these questions? So, so one day, Emma decided that she was

• 2:41:19Speaker 07

  going to prove that that's what was going on, and so she purposely put false answers to the math questions there, and then all of the rest of the class gave the same wrong answers.

• 2:41:30Shawn Ryan?

  Are you serious?

• 2:41:31Speaker 07

  Yeah, they call it the cheating scandal. And everybody laughs about it, but...

• 2:41:39Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. What kind of scenarios have you engineered for this?

• 2:41:44Speaker 07

  Well, so I've also had, there's another cluster of kids in Chicago who've been working with a speech therapist there. And so I had her put them in separate rooms and, and asked her if she could have one of them, you know, send a random stimulus to the other one. And so I just have some preliminary data on that, where, you know, where, where some of them were able to do that. Some of them find that too boring, or they don't want to do that. So instead, what they, what Maria said is, it'll work better if we make it more organic and make it more of a conversation. And I said, okay, well, you know, give me an example of what that looked like.

• 2:42:28Speaker 07

  And she said, well, so for example, this one boy, Ryan, Ryan said something about politics to this boy, Akil, who was in another room. And then Akil answered back about, you know, and they started back and forth talking about politics. And, you know, so that, so the one boy said how much he liked Trump and, and the other kid said, um, yeah, he, that he didn't care for Democrats either. And, you know. And was this kind of, so it was kind of like they were having this discussion back and

• 2:43:11Speaker 07

  forth, telepathically, but rather than wanting to do the whole, you know, well, here's a random number and can you send it to your friend?

• 2:43:20Shawn Ryan?

  Jeez. I mean, what do you, what's going through your head when you are researching and you see these phenomena happen?

• 2:43:27Speaker 07

  Oh, it just, just makes me want to dive in deeper. Because, I mean, I, um, it's like every, every, every question that I've had that's gotten answered, only it's gotten answered with more questions than I have that I want answers to. And so it really, I mean, it's just endlessly fascinating.

• 2:43:49Shawn Ryan?

  What kind of questions do you have?

• 2:43:53Speaker 07

  What kind of questions do I have? Oh, well, I'm wanting to know, you know, I'm really wanting to know, you know, the kinds of things that you're asking, you know, like, you know, how do they, how do they experience the world? I mean, I really want to know what it's like to be in, you know, in their mind, number one. And then I want to know, you know, what is it that is, is there something that we can measure objectively that will validate some of these things, you know, beyond just, okay, so it's, it's, so it's interesting that we, you know, have this sort of evidence for

• 2:44:34Speaker 07

  telepathy or whatever, but, but what is, you know, what is going on? Can we measure that, for example, differences in their biofield? And there's this, there's this device, it's called a BioWell, that was invented by a Russian scientist, that reportedly measures this biofield I told you about. And it also gives a reading of the chakras, which are talked about in eastern traditions. And each one of these is just an energy center, you know, is the way to think of it, like a vortex of energy.

• 2:45:17Speaker 07

  And the chakra that people in eastern mysticism talk about being associated with psychic abilities, things like telepathy, is, you know, the third eye, you know, the sixth chakra. Okay. And I tested the biofield of this one boy during telepathic communication with his mother, and that chakra and the throat chakra, which is the communication chakra, were two and a half times deviated from the midline, but just during telepathy. Okay. And so that, to me, is very interesting information, because it really does provide

• 2:46:02Speaker 07

  some, you know, some evidence that these ideas of biofields and energy centers, each of which is, you know, devoted to some other sort of aspect of our consciousness, if you will. Yeah, we've got the heart chakra, you know, which is associated with, you know, the feelings of the heart, you know, the solar plexus, you know, the root chakra, which is our sense of, root chakra is our sense of, you know, groundedness or, you know, belonging, you know, each one, each one of these is like a different aspect of ourselves that ideally are all kind of singing together in harmony, you know, but that can

• 2:46:46Speaker 07

  get, we can get out of balance, you know, people can, people can be, you know, if they don't have a solid grounding, then they, it's more problematic for them to be having these sort of psychical experiences because they're, they're not grounded. So they're, I mean, they're, you know, that there needs to be a way in which they're, all of these things are working together in a coherent way. But, but, but in order to prove that those, you know, those things that are thousands of years old, you know, this idea of there being chakras and energy fields, and it's across different cultures, I mean, Native

• 2:47:28Speaker 07

  Americans believe in them as well. And, and so proving those and then understanding, what do we do to bring those more in harmony with one another? Because what I'm really, really interested in is how can we help be our fullest potential in a way that is removing the impurities and restoring the harmony to our own biofield, you know, so that we can, so that, so that the body and its innate wisdom can heal itself, rather than having

• 2:48:09Speaker 07

  this model of healing that's imposing something on somebody, saying, you know, let me, you know, let me give you this medication that really just manages symptoms. Instead of that, how do I bring you back to your divine blueprint?

• 2:48:26Speaker 07

  That has had all of these insults to it, whether it's toxic chemicals,

• 2:48:35Speaker 07

  or EMF,

• 2:48:39Speaker 07

  or just all the psychological baggage that we accumulate as a result of living in the kind of world we live in today. And how do we clear all of that out, restore harmony? Because if we ourselves, because the only thing that we really have control over is really ourself. And if what we do is we start really trying to do a really good job of being the best that we can be, what I see happens is there's a ripple effect that if I'm in a really good space and harmonized, I have that effect,

• 2:49:23Speaker 07

  I kind of have that effect on other people around me. I see that if I'm in a good mood,

• 2:49:30Speaker 07

  it's easier to get other people to be in a good mood. And so, and then those people then are in a good mood, and that can bring on a good mood for, you know, a better attitude and mood for the people around them. And so if we all focus on that which we have control over instead of putting our consciousness to something that disempowers us, makes us feel helpless, makes us feel like, what's the point? If we stop putting our energy there and start putting our energy into, well, what do I have control over? And what can I do? And how can I make things better? Then we start to

• 2:50:10Speaker 07

  bring about more harmony, and that's associated with health. We know that our attitude and our mental health has a huge impact on our morbidity and mortality from a whole host of conditions. So what I'm wanting to see is how do we facilitate people in that process? And I see these autistic individuals as being, they're like the canaries in the coal mine. You know, they're the sensitives who are showing us that, you know, they're showing us in a more extreme way. You know, the good and the bad of everything. And we can learn so much from them.

• 2:50:52Speaker 07

  But there's ramifications for everyone.

• 2:51:00Shawn Ryan?

  Be careful what you project.

• 2:51:03Speaker 07

  Be careful what you project, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But don't... Stop being authentic.

• 2:51:10Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:51:11Speaker 07

  It's so... That's the thing. It's like, be authentic. And see, for some people, they don't know how... It's like, they want to be this person. They're like, but I'm not that person. So then they go out of authenticity. And when you go out of authenticity, you're actually going from a place of empowerment to a place of disempowerment.

• 2:51:37Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:51:38Speaker 07

  I don't know if you know much about kinesiology, but...

• 2:51:43Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know anything about it.

• 2:51:44Speaker 07

  Yeah, so what's it... So, kinesiology has something called muscle testing in it, okay? Where if you say... If you say a lie, okay? You actually are physically weaker. If you're saying, like, if you were to... Like, you can test somebody, okay? And you... It takes less force to move their body if they're in a place of being disingenuous. And so, kinesiology is this art of what's called muscle testing.

• 2:52:26Speaker 07

  But, I mean, people do it like, you know, like this as well. You can put your fingers like this and then say something... Well, try it. I mean, you know, I mean, what the heck, you know? Try it. Say something... So, try to hold these together and then say something that's true and say something that's false and see if you notice a difference in your strength. And what people do is they'll oftentimes test... Use it as a way to test what they really believe. Because oftentimes, we... There's like...

• 2:53:03Speaker 07

  This is what we really believe and then there's what we say we believe or tell ourselves we believe because that's what we should believe. And so anyway, so there's a book by someone named David Hawkins called Power Versus Force. And he talks about how instead with power, the idea of power is that you're you're just asserting power over something. It takes a lot more effort to assert power over something than it does to just create a force field that brings it about.

• 2:53:47Speaker 07

  And our state of consciousness and our state of authenticity plays a role in how much of a, how powerful that force field is.

• 2:54:01Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Why do you think so many people struggle with authenticity?

• 2:54:07Speaker 07

  Oh, I think people want to be liked and accepted by other people. And there's this belief system that if I showed you who I am or what I really think, you might not like me. Now, what happens is, is when somebody is afraid to say what they really think, show who they really are, what happens is that you actually, if you,

• 2:54:48Speaker 07

  if you do that and you are authentic, you give permission to the other person to be authentic too.

• 2:54:57Speaker 07

  And oftentimes, that creates the strongest bond because it's like, oh, my God, you think that too? Oh, we said that. We're not supposed to say that, but we think that and we said it. And, you know, hey, I love you, bro. You know, because it's like, because you now know, I don't have to hold back from you. There's a price we pay when we have to hold back.

• 2:55:21Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:55:22Speaker 07

  And then there's always this, well, it's limiting to the heart because it's like, okay, well, now you're acting like you like me. But is your liking of me conditional? Is it because I say what you expect me to say? What I'm supposed to say? Or do you like me because, A, you know, I like you, we may be different in this way or that way, but it's okay. I like you because I respect the fact that you're comfortable in your own self and you're a good person. You're not trying to hurt, you know, hurt anybody or whatever.

• 2:56:00Shawn Ryan?

  Man, I just, I feel so bad for people that have not found the ability to be authentic because they're projecting a complete false reality, a characterization. And I see this a lot in the veteran community with over embellished war stories, flat out lies. I mean, projecting a certain attitude, I'm a tough guy or what, you know, whatever it is. And I look at that and I'm, you know, and I fell into that, you know, a long, long time ago, but I, what I think about myself is I'm a very authentic person and I don't waver.

• 2:56:44Shawn Ryan?

  And I see these people that did, it could be, it could be anything, but, you know, where the ego takes over or whatever happens and they, it's like they're living in a prison. It's, it's, you know, it's not them and, and it's, it's, it's.

• 2:57:03Shawn Ryan?

  It's like being, living your entire life imprisoned.

• 2:57:07Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And that's, you know, one of the reasons why, you know, people need, it's like, it's sad to say, people feel like they, they need permission to just be their authentic self. And it, some of my favorite patients that I've worked with over the years were people who were part of the 12-step program. And one of the reasons why is that they really say, hey, be real, man, you know, you know, be authentic.

• 2:57:40Speaker 07

  And people love their, once they get into the 12-step program, what, one of the things they love about it is it's a place where it's like you can come and show up and say, I screwed up.

• 2:57:55Speaker 07

  And people still accept you.

• 2:57:58Speaker 07

  And you feel a true, a true sense of belonging and love from that community. And then you're actually, you're not wanting to let them down, but you're also not wanting to let yourself down anymore. Because what you start to realize is that it's, you're letting yourself down.

• 2:58:22Speaker 07

  And you've got all of this support that's saying,

• 2:58:29Speaker 07

  hey, we love you anyway.

• 2:58:31Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:58:33Speaker 07

  And, and what you ultimately want is, I mean, one of the reasons why people are being inauthentic is because they're wanting, ultimately, they're wanting, they're either afraid of rejection or they're wanting to be loved and liked or whatever. So ultimately, you're like removing that layer of it.

• 2:58:53Speaker 07

  And, and giving the person sort of permission to be authentic. And then, over time, you know, the person is like,

• 2:59:03Speaker 07

  maybe what it was that they were trying to escape from before no longer needs to be escaped from.

• 2:59:13Speaker 07

  Maybe what they were trying to escape from was a lack of self-esteem, a lack of self-worth. And by being in this supportive community, they start to develop a sense of self-worth.

• 2:59:30Speaker 07

  And so then there's like less of this feeling like you need to escape. So it's like, so people get, like you said, a prison, in a prison, you get locked into this like, you know, it's easiest to, path of least resistance is to just keep doing what you've been doing. But if what you've been doing is not giving you the results you want, then you're probably going to continue to get those results or even worse. Cause things tend to get worse over time.

• 2:59:56Shawn Ryan?

  You had mentioned earlier, you know, I mean, what we're talking about is living in a lie. And, you know, we just, you talked about strength, you know, and how if you live in truth, if you are your true self, if you're authentic, then it, I mean, it physically makes you stronger as well. Whereas if you are living in a characterization of something that's not you, then your body becomes weaker.

• 3:00:24Speaker 07

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 3:00:25Shawn Ryan?

  The funny thing is, is I mean, we live in a day and age right now where people are screaming for authenticity.

• 3:00:32Shawn Ryan?

  But I think there's a small percentage of the population that is actually, they are genuinely authentic. They are projecting exactly who they are. And another funny thing is that, that, I mean, the more authentic, the more of yourself that you are, at least, at least

• 3:00:54Shawn Ryan?

  as you get older, maybe not in, maybe not in, maybe not teenagers and below, but, you know, I mean,

• 3:01:03Shawn Ryan?

  when you are authentic, it, people gravitate to that.

• 3:01:07Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 3:01:08Shawn Ryan?

  Even people that are not authentic, that don't have the courage to be themselves, that don't have the courage to lay the lies down, I mean, they even gravitate towards you. Why do you think that is?

• 3:01:21Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 3:01:24Speaker 07

  I think that being authentic is something that people really want for themselves. Okay, and so we tend to be attracted to individuals who represent something we want for ourselves, even if we don't think we're capable of it. It's as though we're attracted to it as though it's going to rub off on us. But it's just, and there's this saying about people, that saying opposites attract. Part of the attraction is a desire for more balance, a desire to be a little bit less

• 3:02:09Speaker 07

  like this and a little more like that, or to strike some kind of balance, or to have a little bit of both. And so what's attractive, as I said, is what we want. And I think ultimately, I mean, why wouldn't people want to be their authentic self? Why wouldn't you?

• 3:02:35Shawn Ryan?

  I think that people are born that way. I mean, I look at my kids, and they're their authentic self, and then as you become indoctrinated through society and external influences start to play a role, not in who you are, but who you become.

• 3:02:55Speaker 07

  Right, and that's what I'm saying is, so when I'm saying, why wouldn't somebody want to be their authentic self, I'm talking about their deep, deep, deep self wanting to be its authentic self and expression. Okay, that we're here to have, to express fully who we are, but what happens is, is that that self goes underground because of the social conditioning, because of the desire for approval. Or, you know, sometimes, so a little, you know, a baby coming right out of the womb, I mean, that baby's authentically that baby.

• 3:03:40Speaker 07

  And along the way, they get conditioned into being who they think they need to be to get parental love. Then it moves on to peers, you know, that when kids, you know, they reach an age where it's the care, you know, they know they've got their parents' love, now they want their peers' love. Or they've given up on their parents' love. They're only looking for their peers' love, or whatever. But it's this, this, your, your, the social conditioning works because you're wanting that approval. But if from, if, if from the get-go, at every step as you're coming out more and more into the world, you got met with, "Oh, I'm so, you know, happy to see you in your full authentic self,"

• 3:04:25Speaker 07

  then, then people wouldn't get, wouldn't suppress it.

• 3:04:30Shawn Ryan?

  Now, I know we're getting away from the telepathy days right now, but I'm, I'm curious what your thoughts are, you know, as a parent. You know, I, I think about this often because it, it took me, I don't know how long. I mean, being in the SEAL teams, contracting, that's not who I am. That's not, that doesn't, you know, I thought that's who I was. I really wanted to do that, I did it. But it took me a period of time to get back to what I believe is my, my true self. And now as a parent, you know, I think about, you know, I want my kids to be their authentic self. And so, and that, that goes into everything.

• 3:05:12Shawn Ryan?

  I don't want my kid playing a certain sport because he thinks I want him to play that certain sport. I don't want him to have hobbies that he doesn't want to do because I like to do it. And, but, so, is, I'm curious what your thoughts are, you know, for somebody that's a parent that genuinely, you know, and I see this all the time, you know, people, they force their kids to play baseball. They want them, you know, they push them, they push them into things and then the kid is forced to do it. And then maybe they want to do it, maybe they don't. Maybe they only want to do it because they know that that's what's going to make their, their, their dad proud. You know, and so how do you introduce hobbies, activities, values, things like that

• 3:05:57Shawn Ryan?

  to your children without, without, you know, over-influencing them?

• 3:06:03Speaker 07

  Well, I think a lot of it starts with yourself in terms of, you know, first of all, setting the intention as a parent that what I want is going to be that which makes my child feel happy. Uh huh. And I'm not going to define what that happiness looks. I'm not going to say, oh, I'm not going to put a condition on it. I'm not going to say, oh, that happiness has to include that they have a higher level of education. Or it's not going to include that they make a certain salary amount per year. Those are not going to be the measures of success. The measures of success are going to be that my child is happy and fulfilled, okay? And independent, though. You don't want the child to be, you know, you can be happy and fulfilled, but not, but

• 3:06:48Speaker 07

  totally dependent upon others. So you want them to be independent, because that's part of feeling self-fulfilled, is to know that you really, you know, that you've got it covered for yourself. So what I did with my daughter, and what I encourage people to do, is to provide a whole variety of interests for the child. You know, just like, these are all the possibilities, you know? There's music, there's sports, there's, you know, all of these different possibilities, and some of which I engage in, some of which I don't. But does it matter what I engage in? It's more that there are people that engage in all of these different types of things. And which one of these things appeals to you? And if you don't know yet, then just try a little bit of all of them.

• 3:07:32Speaker 07

  And then what you do is you track how your child responds to whatever that thing is, that, you know, they're taking the summer course in, or whatever it is they're doing. And you just see, boy, my kid really, you know, on the days that he's got, you know, baseball practice, boy, he's, you know, he's got an extra little glint in his eye, you know? He's really looking forward to it. Or you see, you know, or, you know, oh, this is what, you know, she's doing on the weekend when she doesn't have to. You know, she's going out and she's getting her sketchbook because she's really enjoying her art class. So what you do is you see what it is that they gravitate towards, because...

• 3:08:12Speaker 07

  The reality is that a lot of what leads to success is not just aptitude. It's, it's, are you willing to put the tens of thousands of hours of work into the mastery of it?

• 3:08:28Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 3:08:29Speaker 07

  Because the reality is, is a lot of us could master a lot of things if we had the motivation. And nothing motivates us more than actually being inherently drawn to it. And, and so we have to rein back our own sort of, well, that's what I would have liked to have done when I was a kid, but I didn't get to do it because I was fulfilling my father's dream that I'd become an attorney, but now I want my kid to do that. Well, that kid may not want to do the thing that he wanted to do. And you're just sort of, you're, you're perpetuating the cycle, even though that, you know, the facts are different, the, the, you know, the process is the same of, of, of it being

• 3:09:12Speaker 07

  that you, you know, that your dream fulfillment is really coming, you know, you're looking to your kid to do that. So, so you help them to, to sort it out. And with my daughter, um, I saw that what she really liked to do was, um, draw and sketch. And, um, and even though, I mean, I'm looking at going, well, okay, you know, hard to make a living as an artist. I, I'm, I'm the last person who's going to try to, you know, discourage that. And so she, she majored in design in college and she got a fantastic job out of college because people now recognize how important design is to so many different things that she actually got a very, very good job.

• 3:09:56Shawn Ryan?

  Are you careful not to over emphasize things that she is interested in, that you're also interested in, or, or inject, uh, in overabundance of positivity into an activity? Here's an example. My son is, my son and I love to fish. He's, he's a toddler.

• 3:10:20Shawn Ryan?

  Used to love to fish. I think now he gets really bored. You know, and now I'm like, am I over emphasizing our time together? Doing fishing as a hobby because we go, he'll say he wants to go. But now I'm wondering, are you just saying you want to go? Because I'm saying I want you to go with me because this is how we spend time together. And this is one of the only things that I can do that, that, that where I can actually be in the moment with my son and not be thinking about all the other bullshit in the world.

• 3:10:52Speaker 07

  I think there's still value in you doing the fishing with your son because it's an opportunity to just hang out together. And it can be an extremely relaxing thing. And so he gets to experience his dad in a relaxed state, hanging out. And, you know, it's not like that's driving his career choices, you know? It's more like, no, it's, it's something you like to do that, you know? Yeah, it's kind of boring, but you know, you're doing more than just fishing.

• 3:11:21Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 3:11:22Speaker 07

  You know, it's, it's, it's, it's almost like a meditative space. And, and so, so, so I think that, I think that there's no, there's no problem with that. It's more people, people fulfilling somebody's dreams. It's more like, oh, you know, they're, they're going on and becoming a doctor because they want their dad to be proud of.

• 3:11:47Shawn Ryan?

  What I have to do to give my parents approval.

• 3:11:50Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. When it's not really, they're coming from within them as they're calling. But, you know, go and spend time, you know, we all, we all, you know, as social beings have, you know, times when we spend time with people because we love them and we want to spend time with them. And it's not necessarily doing a hundred percent what we'd be doing on our own. And that's just part of the social, you know, social contract that's, that's okay. Cause that's just part of the glue. But, but it's not, it's not the soul, you know, it's not our full identity. I mean, your, your son's, I'm sure got other things he's interested in that he's pursuing.

• 3:12:26Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh, uh huh. Okay.

• 3:12:29Speaker 07

  But, you know, but getting back to the, these telepathic autists, an interesting story about this is that this one.

• 3:12:39Speaker 07

  Person who contacted me out of concern, who has a telepathic autistic daughter. One of the things that happened to her was that her daughter could tell that the mother was not a happy person and started going into her memories. So it was not just reading her current thoughts, but was actually, she said it was as though, you know, I have a file drawer there. Whoa. And it's like, I've had more than one parent tell me about this. And it's like she was going through the files there. And the daughter was trying to understand why her mother was so unhappy. How old is this daughter?

• 3:13:23Speaker 07

  Oh, like 15. And what the daughter discovered was that her mother had given up her career as a dancer and her love for a man who was another dancer, but 10 years older than her, to please her parents and went on to become a medical doctor and married somebody to please her parents.

• 3:14:05Speaker 07

  And here she was, living this inauthentic life and was unhappy, and her daughter was picking up on it. And so her daughter brought up this man to her and brought up her past career. And the mother was, contacted me wanting a therapy session, saying,

• 3:14:35Speaker 07

  What do I do with this? This is opening up all my wounds. I thought I closed this chapter. I didn't. This is the last thing I wanted to be dealing with. What should I do? You know? And so, and she, so, so there's this,

• 3:14:52Speaker 07

  there's, there's a tie in here between the, you know, this sort of like us, you know, our, living in inauthentic life is something that these, these autistic individuals, I mean, they pick up on it like

• 3:15:09Speaker 07

  very, very quickly.

• 3:15:10Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Wow.

• 3:15:15Shawn Ryan?

  So some of them have access to your memory?

• 3:15:20Speaker 07

  Yep, they do. They do. And so it's like,

• 3:15:26Speaker 07

  it's like, well, you didn't think you were gonna have to deal with that. I guess you're gonna have to deal with it now.

• 3:15:32Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 3:15:34Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 3:15:35Shawn Ryan?

  Now, when you're talking about them communicating with each other, separate rooms,

• 3:15:43Shawn Ryan?

  what, how do they describe what that experience is like? Do, is it like a, I mean, if they have, if they have that ability

• 3:15:55Shawn Ryan?

  to an antenna or whatever in their brain that is able to access all these other minds, you know what I mean? How are they able to differentiate

• 3:16:09Shawn Ryan?

  people that have this ability versus people that don't have this ability? I mean, it would be, I mean, the way I envision it right now is, you know, you're in a room with all these different people and you have to sift out, you know, you have to sort through them all to get to the one that you wanna talk to, that you can relate to or have a conversation with or whatever. And so is, do they have some type of a,

• 3:16:34Shawn Ryan?

  Radar.

• 3:16:35Speaker 07

  Well, they see auras. And so they'll, so, or they basically say they see the biofield. And people have different colors to their auras depending upon, I suspect it has to do with which chakras are the most dominant in your field. And so, so people who have a dominant crown chakra and have a violet aura, which is what I've been told I have, is violet aura. And the other people have, you know, a blue aura, you know, a green aura. And so this gives them an idea of who's psychic or not. Because if you have a, if you have an indigo blue aura or a violet aura,

• 3:17:20Speaker 07

  they, they, they know that you're, that you're, you've got, you've got some of these innate abilities, even if you're not aware of it. But if they see that you've got a red aura or an orange aura, they see that you're, which are the lower frequencies, they see that you're really more, your consciousness is predominantly expressed through the root chakra, you know, which is this sort of three dimensional reality. You know, it's a very security based, you know, survival based reality. You know, if it's, if you've got an orange aura, that's your sacral aura, which is more the, you know, things like sexuality or, you know,

• 3:18:03Speaker 07

  you know, other, you know, other aspects that are much more hedonistic, you know. Or if you've got a blue, a green aura, you know, then that's your heart chakra and that you are more heart centered. And so, so they, so they actually see the colors around people and they'll tell you, um, oh, you know, they, they feel safe around me automatically because of the color of my aura. And they'll, and they'll avoid somebody who's got a red aura or, you know, or a brown aura or, you know, because they, they don't feel safe. They like yellow, they say that's a happy aura, so that yellow's a fine color too.

• 3:18:43Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. I mean, how does that play in when you're, they're communicating through walls and separate rooms, maybe separate, I mean, how far does this go? Is it throughout the world? Can somebody in the US talk to somebody in China?

• 3:19:00Speaker 07

  They, I mean, anecdotally, I mean, there have been autistic individuals from different countries, I mean, that have been in contact with one another, predominantly between the US and the UK. But I haven't really had the chance to experimentally test it out, but I, I mean, it's something I'd really be interested in doing.

• 3:19:27Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:19:28Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 3:19:29Shawn Ryan?

  And so what about the other rooms? How do they describe that?

• 3:19:33Speaker 07

  They just, they just call it, you know, they're just mind talking, you know? I mean, they don't, it's hard to get somebody who's autistic to describe their inner experience. They tend to really struggle with that. They don't really have, they're, it's so easy for us to try to impose our way of being on them, and they're in some ways so different from us that it's really, that's one of the reasons why I like, I can't answer some of these questions, because it's really, it's just so different.

• 3:20:17Speaker 07

  To give you an example, a lot of them don't identify with this body as self, okay? And so this one boy, Ethan, he always refers to himself in the third person. He'll say, Ethan, da-da-da, Ethan went to the store yesterday, or Ethan thought about, you know, he's just like, and he's talking about himself. A lot of them will say that they don't feel, that they're out of their body a lot of the time. And so there was this Japanese boy who wrote the book, The Reason I Jump, and the title

• 3:21:02Speaker 07

  comes from his answer to a question about why do you jump? And he says, because I feel my soul detaching from my body.

• 3:21:12Speaker 07

  And when I asked other autistics about this, they were like, absolutely, I'm out of my body a lot of the time. And so I think that that being out of the body is a common characteristic of a lot of these psychic abilities. It's a common denominator. And so, for example, if you think about the remote viewing, a lot of them say it's astral projection. They go, they actually send their consciousness wherever it is, see what's there, and then come back. Look at people who've had near-death experiences,

• 3:21:57Speaker 07

  who then afterwards report an increase in psychic abilities. Well, during a near-death experience, there's an out-of-body experience component to it. So you have that experience where you're seeing yourself from a perspective that's different from the embodied perspective. Similarly, people who've experienced tremendous trauma in early childhood, when we can disassociate more easily and leave our body more easily, they can oftentimes have an out-of-body experience because of some traumatic event that happened when they were very, very young.

• 3:22:38Speaker 07

  And it's like, once you've had that out-of-body experience, it's like, it's easier for that, your awareness to leave the embodied perspective and perceive things from somewhere else other than what it's like to be, you know, receiving through my eyes and hearing with these ears.

• 3:23:06Shawn Ryan?

  When you were talking earlier about

• 3:23:10Shawn Ryan?

  these guys and girls that are talking to Jesus Christ, talking to angels, I mean,

• 3:23:19Shawn Ryan?

  and they're saying that they're here on earth to

• 3:23:24Shawn Ryan?

  make us a better place, a more loving humanity.

• 3:23:29Shawn Ryan?

  What, how do they describe those experiences with both angels and Jesus?

• 3:23:38Shawn Ryan?

  Are they visual as well?

• 3:23:40Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They definitely see them.

• 3:23:44Speaker 07

  Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And they tell me that I've got angels around me. They said that I'm heavily protected.

• 3:23:55Shawn Ryan?

  Well, that's good.

• 3:23:56Speaker 07

  Yeah, good to know.

• 3:24:00Shawn Ryan?

  Do they describe the visuals?

• 3:24:04Speaker 07

  They describe the, so that a lot of the beings that they see are light beings that they say are kind of a whitish, bluish color.

• 3:24:15Speaker 07

  And they're very tall.

• 3:24:18Speaker 07

  They also describe seeing our angel, Michael.

• 3:24:24Speaker 07

  Seeing, you know, seeing Jesus. I can't say that any of them's ever given me a visual description of God, but they definitely have said that they've seen Jesus and angels.

• 3:24:40Shawn Ryan?

  Do any of them have described this not knowing who Jesus is or who an angel is?

• 3:24:50Speaker 07

  Described not knowing them?

• 3:24:51Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Like, I guess what I'm getting at is

• 3:25:00Shawn Ryan?

  Somebody that has not been introduced to that yet, that would have no way of knowing who that person is, other than their personal experience.

• 3:25:11Speaker 07

  There have been individuals who have reported talking with Jesus who were not raised Christians. Okay, if that's what you're asking.

• 3:25:20Shawn Ryan?

  That's what I'm asking.

• 3:25:21Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, there are. Now, one of the things that's interesting is that there are a number of the people who have contacted me, who have a child who is autistic and has these kinds of abilities, who come from a background where the family is Hindu, for example. And so they may, you know, may report, you know, seeing Krishna, okay? But if you look at the description of Krishna's life and the story of Jesus's life,

• 3:26:04Speaker 07

  there are certain parallels between the types of individuals they were. And so I think that, and similarly, when people have near-death experiences, that people will have, a person who's a Buddhist might see Buddha, you know, where somebody who's Christian might see, might see Jesus, or Mary, or God. And so I think what happens is, is that to some extent, just like what happens with remote viewing, there's an analytical overlay that we tend to take our cultural, you know, background and use that to inform the form that something takes, so that we can then identify.

• 3:26:49Speaker 07

  What we're perceiving is really just the energy. Okay, so you know, maybe you're perceiving, this is a benevolent, loving energy that I'm around. And if you were raised a Christian, you're gonna, you're gonna think of Jesus. But if you're Hindu, you might think of Krishna. It may be that it's the same energy, it's just the two different cultures are putting a different face onto it and labeling what they label it.

• 3:27:20Shawn Ryan?

  Are there any of them that say that they don't see, maybe there's no visual, but it's more of an intuitive experience?

• 3:27:30Shawn Ryan?

  Like they just feel a presence?

• 3:27:32Speaker 07

  Oh, well, some of them feel the presence, some of them hear it. It's more of an auditory experience.

• 3:27:40Shawn Ryan?

  Have you monitored any brain activity when they're communicating or with each other, or having an experience with some type of a higher being, or digging into memories, going into the past, going into the future, remote viewing? Have you been able to map any brain activity?

• 3:28:05Speaker 07

  Well, one of the things that I want to do is map their brain activity, and I'm doing that with scientists using EEGs, which is basically, it's like an EEG, measuring the electromagnetic signals at the surface of your skull, only it's hooked up to a computer program that can take that signal and create like a 3D map of the brain and tell you which areas of the brain the signals are coming from, and what percentage of them are the different frequencies. And so, it's called brain mapping, and that's something that I'm doing simultaneous recordings

• 3:28:48Speaker 07

  of, say, the mother and the son, if they're a telepathic pair, or between two autistic telepathic pairs. I only have preliminary data, and it's really challenging data to get because the fact that these children tend to be very, very fidgety, and that creates a lot of artifact. And so, it's really hard to get a clean EEG. But what I'm hoping to do is to...

• 3:29:20Speaker 07

  Work with them to, you know, whether it's music or, you know, or other types of methods to calm them down, to get them into a place where they can stay still and get good recordings while doing these experiments. But right now, it's just they're so excited to, you know, to see me and, you know, and to be participating in the telepathy and et cetera, et cetera, that they're all amped up and they're just moving left and right. They're just like this, you know? Like, okay, we'll get the EEGs later. Well, you know, that's, that's.

• 3:29:54Shawn Ryan?

  What do you suspect that you might find? Do you have any?

• 3:29:58Speaker 07

  I suspect that there's a synchronization of the, of the brains, you know, that they're, that they're, um, yeah, that you'll, you'll find some phase locking between their brains, but, you know, where they're, they're in sync, you know, if you think about, um, you know, there's a natural, um, in the animal world, you know, if you've ever seen, you know, birds, you know, or school of fish, you know, where it's like they're in sync with one another. It's like they're operating from the same field consciousness.

• 3:30:29Shawn Ryan?

  Like a school of fish?

• 3:30:30Speaker 07

  Yeah, like a school of fish.

• 3:30:31Shawn Ryan?

  They'll turn at the exact same moment, thousands of them.

• 3:30:33Speaker 07

  Instantaneously. It's not, it's not like they're waiting for some communication to be transmitted. It's, it's that they're just in the same field and therefore responding at the same time as though they're all one. And so it's that, it's that kind of unity consciousness. And what I suspect is that you'll see that there's like a phase locking and synchronization of the brainwaves so that it's like they're, they're just both, it's like they're tuned into the same channel as opposed to it being when, you know, information being transmitted back and forth, it's more like, no, you're tuned into the same channel in, in real time.

• 3:31:17Shawn Ryan?

  You've done studies on twins as well, correct?

• 3:31:20Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:31:21Shawn Ryan?

  What did you find with twins?

• 3:31:24Speaker 07

  Oh, there's a, there's a, there's a higher incidence of telepathy in twins as well. And, and that's something that's been, you know, there've been a lot of people like Guy Playfair, who did research on twin telepathy. And, um, and one of the things I was interested in, there's the twins who were raised apart. Are you familiar with those studies?

• 3:31:44Shawn Ryan?

  No.

• 3:31:45Speaker 07

  Oh, so, so there was this twin registry, uh, that had like over 60 cases of these identical twins who were adopted to separate families because, you know, people didn't want to adopt both of them. So, so they had a registry of all these identical twins, raised totally separately, totally different, oftentimes, you know, some of them in different countries, some in totally different family backgrounds. And these scientists went and then looked them up years later and found all of these uncanny similarities in their lives.

• 3:32:30Speaker 07

  For example, many of them dressed exactly the same. When, when they were brought to, to, to one another, to meet one another for the first time, they were wearing the same outfit.

• 3:32:41Shawn Ryan?

  Are you serious?

• 3:32:42Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 3:32:46Speaker 07

  Yeah. You know, and, and they oftentimes named their dogs, had the same breed of dog, named them the same name.

• 3:32:56Speaker 07

  There are these, there are these twins called the Jim Twins, who, they, they both drove the same car. They, they, they both had, they, they had the impulse to build a circular white structure at the same time. They married women with the same name. They, I mean, you know, there's, so there's all of these. Cases of these individuals who are living like these parallel lives that are

• 3:33:29Shawn Ryan?

  They've never even known each other.

• 3:33:31Speaker 07

  And they've never even known one another. And it's interesting, from having known a lot of twins personally, identical twins personally, and even identical triplets. I mean, by the time I was in sixth grade, I already knew three sets of identical triplets that I went to school with.

• 3:33:52Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 3:33:53Speaker 07

  And, yeah. And what you see in identicals is that there's more of... You have some identicals that just relish the... You know, they love the fact that they are identical twins, and they purposely dress alike, and they, you know, they're very similar. And then you have these other twins who, it's like they're each wanting to carve out their own individuality, and so if anything, there's like more of a pressure to be different from one another. Okay? But when you have identical twins that are raised apart, they're no longer responding

• 3:34:38Speaker 07

  in relationship to the other twin in a direct sense. And so you've removed that variable that either makes them become exactly, you know, the same, or makes them want to be different from one another. And then you... And then to see all of these commonalities between them pop up, I mean, it really... It makes you really wonder, you know, what is that telling us?

• 3:35:03Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know.

• 3:35:07Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 3:35:08Shawn Ryan?

  What is it telling us?

• 3:35:09Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and so it's as though they're still... It's as though their consciousness fields are still interconnected with one another, even though they've been apart.

• 3:35:26Speaker 07

  And whether or not it's that they're influencing one another, or they're both operating out of the same kind of influences that predate anything, you know, maybe in their epigenetics, or, I mean, who knows? But there's, the parallels are too uncanny to ignore. And in my book, The SP Enigma, I have a whole chapter on twins, where I talk about a lot of this data, because it's absolutely fascinating.

• 3:35:58Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I'll say.

• 3:36:01Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 3:36:01Shawn Ryan?

  I wanted to talk about ethical considerations for the future of AI and how this ties into that.

• 3:36:10Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 3:36:11Shawn Ryan?

  Could we dive into that a little bit?

• 3:36:13Speaker 07

  Sure. Well, I'd love to hear what your concerns are about AI. I mean, I certainly have my own concerns.

• 3:36:20Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, I have lots of concerns. I think most of them are kind of conspiratorial. But I don't know, I don't understand how it would tie in with telepathy.

• 3:36:36Speaker 07

  How AI would?

• 3:36:37Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:36:41Speaker 07

  Yeah, I think that was a question somebody else might have put out there. Well, let me just say this.

• 3:36:50Speaker 07

  If you think about what AI is doing,

• 3:36:54Speaker 07

  AI is taking all of this information that's on the internet. You know, and it has these algorithms it's operating under such that it can basically mimic human, you know, human intelligence. I mean, that's been their goal, is to see if they could pass the Turing test and basically mimic human intelligence such that you couldn't tell whether you were interacting with a human or not.

• 3:37:32Speaker 07

  And...

• 3:37:35Speaker 07

  There's a lot of, a lot of things about AI that really deeply concern me because, I mean, we're already seeing people get sucked into AI as though AI is this almost omniscient sort of entity. And that's giving that algorithm way too much power.

• 3:37:57Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 3:37:58Speaker 07

  And we know that AI can, you know, it's called hallucination and, you know, people in the artificial intelligence world call it hallucination because AI will actually make stuff up. You, you really have to fact check a lot of what it gives you because it'll even make up references. So if you, as a scientist, are doing research, you know, give me a reference for this and that, you, you can't just trust that that reference really exists. It'll actually make that stuff up. Somebody was trying to, you know, they said, oh, you know, I'll create a short bio for you for somebody and, you know, I have plenty of bios already, but anyway, this person said she'd create a short bio for me for some, somebody that wanted to bring me on

• 3:38:42Speaker 07

  as a speaker and it, and it, it said some stuff that wasn't true. It's just like, even something like that where, you know, you can just, online, you could find a bio about, lots of bios about me. So, so AI just can't be trusted in, in certain ways. And yet you see people even treating, there are people that are treating AI like it is a guru.

• 3:39:06Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you know, I think one of my concerns is you, you start to see that, that people are looking to AI for answers and, and I'm not talking about answers to information like, like historic events or stuff like that. They're, they, they, they are starting to use AI as a form of therapy.

• 3:39:28Speaker 07

  Right.

• 3:39:29Shawn Ryan?

  What should I do about the situation in my life with my husband?

• 3:39:32Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 3:39:33Shawn Ryan?

  And then the AI will split out the answer and so it's influencing people's emotional decisions.

• 3:39:38Speaker 07

  Exactly, exactly. And, and it's, it's, you know, I've heard that there have been people who've made some really bad choices as a result of, you know, they've gone back and looked at the, you know, their, their conversation with AI and they've gone, oh boy, you know, you can see where this went south. And so absolutely that's a concern. And so-

• 3:40:00Speaker 07

  The problem with AI is it's just using algorithms based on language models. And there's no heart in it. And one of the things that telepathy shows us is, so telepathy is something that involves a mind-heart connection. That when there's a coherency between the mind and the heart, people have more of this ability to be knowing what the other person's thinking without having to express it through language. And so, to me, there are certain things that we as humans are capable of doing that AI

• 3:40:43Speaker 07

  will never, ever be capable of doing. And one of the, AI cannot intuit things. It can come up with its best prediction based on mathematical models and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But it can't, it really isn't good at predicting things that are not easily predictable because they haven't already happened. And so, a lot of autistic individuals, their behavior can't be, could not be predicted. A lot of things that are, as I said, intuitive, cannot really be predicted.

• 3:41:27Speaker 07

  And so, I think, and if you've got a very strongly developed intuition, that is superior. AI can be a tool, just like the analytical mind can be a tool, but we need to put more of an emphasis on really, really developing our intuition and using it as more of the arbiter of what's true and what's not. So it's about developing this discernment so that we can have a better compass and recognition of what's real and what's not. Because we're living in a misinformation, we're living in an information age that is...

• 3:42:09Speaker 07

  Full of misinformation. You know, we've got all these narrative wars going on right now. And so, and now, and we've got AI. If we, if that's giving too much power to something that's, that's not, that's, that's made by humans, but it's not, um, but it, but it doesn't have humanity.

• 3:42:32Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 3:42:33Speaker 07

  And, and so, so I think that we need to, it really, you know, behooves us to develop our strong gut and heart-based intuition that then guides us to navigate all of the, you know, all of that we're in. Because yeah, there are a lot of dangers of AI. And part of why I have wanted to get this research about telepathy out there is that I want people to realize that we innately are capable of so much more.

• 3:43:12Speaker 07

  And I believe that, that we, we will always fall short in terms of what we invent compared to nature, the natural divine design of everything. I mean, the deeper I went into science, the more exquisite. It took my breath away, the more and more I saw how, wow. I mean, it's like, the, the blueprint of life is just so amazing. And for us to think that we can muck around with it and, and improve upon it, really concerns me.

• 3:43:55Speaker 07

  You know, I'm concerned by things like transhumanism. I'm concerned by things that are going, that are just assuming that something is superior to us and then is going to be.

• 3:44:10Speaker 07

  Taking humanity in a direction where we're not...

• 3:44:13Shawn Ryan?

  Trying to overpower the laws of nature.

• 3:44:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, overpower the laws of nature. I mean, you know, a lot of the troubles that we have today in the world are because we thought that we could, you know, we saw nature as something that we needed to dominate and drive in the way that we wanted to drive it, rather than how do we harmonize with it and how do we optimize it?

• 3:44:38Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Well, Diane, I would love to go further, and this has been a fascinating discussion. I know you have a flight to catch, so we'll end it. I would love to have you back.

• 3:44:51Speaker 07

  Thank you, love to be back.

• 3:44:53Shawn Ryan?

  But I don't want you to miss your flight, so I'm gonna end it. And I just want to wish you the best in your research and your studies, and I cannot wait to see you again. So, thank you so much.

• 3:45:06Speaker 07

  All right, thank you.