Julia Stiles, "I Wanted to Be a Serious Actress." From Actor to Director: 90's Fame, Hollywood Dreams & Struggles.

Julia Stiles, the iconic actress known for 10 Things I Hate About You, Save The Last Dance, Mona Lisa’s Smile, Dexter and the Bourne films, opens up with Mayim and Jonathan about her unexpected shift from acting to directing. Julia reveals why she almost turned down her legendary role in THE BOURNE IDENTITY! She also shares why she doesn’t believe in auditions and the surprising truth about her dance career after SAVE THE LAST DANCE. Plus, find out how raising her kids shaped her approach to directing WISH YOU WERE HERE and why she calls 10 THINGS I HATE ABOUT YOU a 90’s “time capsule” of her teen years. Tune in for an unfiltered conversation about Julia’s career evolution, life lessons, and the personal experiences that have shaped her journey! WISH YOU WERE HERE is now available for digital download: https://www.lionsgate.com/movies/wish-you-were-here BialikBreakdown.com https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ YouTube.com/mayimbialik https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTOocPnDh2YQZZwh86K2OxA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I grew up in New York City. Especially a 17-year-old girl walking down the street is not going to be smiling at people because that's dangerous. The street smarts in me knew not to do that. So you go into like, commercial auditions and when they're saying like, "You need to smile more when you talk about how great Tide is." It was hard for me. I wanted to be like, a serious actress. But you're young and everybody wants something else. 10 Things I Hate About You. That script was revelatory to me. That part spoke to me so much, I wanted it so badly. I love that Kat was outspoken and feisty and didn't really care what other people thought of her. It was almost aspirational for me to be that kind of independent and confident.

• 0:43Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.

• 0:44Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 0:45Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to our Breakdown. This is the place where we break things down, so you don't have to.

• 0:50Jonathan Cohen?

  Mayim, you know what I haven't asked you lately?

• 0:51Mayim Bialik?

  What?

• 0:52Jonathan Cohen?

  How are you? How are you doing?

• 0:54Mayim Bialik?

  I don't want you to ask me that. That's why you haven't asked it.

• 0:57Jonathan Cohen?

  Why don't you want me to ask you that? It's actually a trick question. Our society has taught us that most people don't want to hear the answer to that. But I truly want to know, how are you doing?

• 1:07Mayim Bialik?

  Before I answer how I am, I want to say that we're going to be speaking to, quote, "one of the most fearless and talented actresses in Hollywood, Julia Stiles." And we're going to get some really interesting perspective on how to approach many aspects of living, being okay, working, incorporating so many parts of you into a life. But before we get to that, I'm going to answer your question. It's been a very active 2025. I think there's been a lot more things that have happened than I anticipated would happen. Globally, domestically. It just feels like it's been, a lot of people are saying like, this has been the longest January, right? It's been the longest.

• 1:53Mayim Bialik?

  I feel like it's been a whole year and we're barely into 2025. Like, enough has happened. It's like, it feels like that's enough. And I think also, for so many of us in the industry, it was like, just get through 2024. Just get through 2024. Like, writers, actors, like, it's been a very hard year. Still recovering from the writer's strike, like, all this stuff. Let's just get through 2024. And now we're in 2025 and in terms of the industry, it's a lot like, oh. Now we're in 2025. Here we are. But yeah, I think it's, I'm really trying to, I really want to stay positive. I want to focus on positivity this year. And it's a real challenge when there's so much negativity, not just in the world,

• 2:36Mayim Bialik?

  but you know, on Instagram, on social media, like even the concept of social media is like in the headlines in terms of what, what should fact check, what shouldn't. Like I'm trying to teach my children about, you know, Thomas Paine and like, I don't agree with everything you say, but I will defend to the death you're right to say it. But then it's like, how far do you take that? What does free speech look like? It doesn't always feel good, you know, to try and, you know, weather through this. And that's, you know, as a parent, also I've felt an extra pressure as this year starts to, you know, not, especially with my, my 16 year old, you know, I don't want him just kind of like singing the party line of whatever, you know, kind of gets churned out by social media.

• 3:20Mayim Bialik?

  I want him to think for himself and also I want him to be allowed to have his feelings. And a lot of things hurt if you're a human right now who happens to be sensitive. So, um, yeah, I do want to say that there, there is a lot of beauty and there's a lot of community and camaraderie, especially for us in Southern California. And also it feels kind of sad that we have to be like, but at least people collected socks for people who lost their homes, you know? And I never doubted, you know, that there was humanity. I also don't believe we should need tragedies to be reminded of that capacity. But yeah, it's definitely an aspect of our city and in many ways, our country kind

• 4:04Mayim Bialik?

  of being brought to its kind of proverbial knees. So that's how I'm doing.

• 4:08Jonathan Cohen?

  Like the word side swiped kind of comes to mind where we have plans, we can't help but anticipate it's a new year, I'm going to get all these things done. And then all of a sudden, nature has a totally different plan.

• 4:22Jonathan Cohen?

  Maybe people could have anticipated that there was going to be some kind of trouble, given the lack of rain, but no one can predict the level of destruction that has happened and is continuing to unfold. And then how do you stay positive while being nimble and flexible and recognizing, wait a second, is the danger over? And how do we look at even things that are happening in the world or politically? And recognize that there may be stuff that we don't agree with. There may be stuff that we're happy about. And yet, we can't be consumed by that all the time?

• 5:05Jonathan Cohen?

  How do we put it down and actually regulate our nervous system and get sleep? Like last night, for example, my mind was just racing and I woke up at 12 a.m. thinking that it was morning. Guess what? It was not morning. There was a lot more night to have happen. So how do we do that? And you know, one of the things to do is to find little activities that we can immerse ourselves in. And today, we are doing just that. We're having a conversation with someone and we're excited to talk to them.

• 5:36Mayim Bialik?

  All right, so let's turn to our very exciting guest, Julia Stiles. Now, many of you may be very excited about this because of her iconic roles in films such as 10 Things I Hate About You, Save the Last Dance, The Bourne franchise, Silver Linings, Playbook. She's been in so many things. But she's going to be also talking about Wish You Were Here, which is now in theaters. She adapted, she wrote it, adapted from a book. She directed it. It's her directorial debut. And she's going to be talking to us about the film. She has three young kids. She's going to be talking about that balance.

• 6:18Mayim Bialik?

  And we're going to ask her about fame, what got her into the world of acting, what it was like to have such tremendous success at a young age. And then also try and then have a normal life in college, during which time she was called out to do the Bourne film. Like, really, really, really interesting journey. And You know, there's not a period in her life when she wasn't working and having tremendous success. And she's a very, very thoughtful person. She's kind of known in Hollywood as someone who kind of tells it like it is. She's very thoughtful, very grounded, and very excited to get to talk to Julia Stiles. So Julia Stiles, welcome to Break Down.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Break it down. Thank you so much for having me. I'm a big fan of the podcast.

• 7:05Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, that's really sweet. Thank you. A lot of times we get to talk to people who like, I'm kind of amazed, like, I feel like we may have been in an event together at some point in our lives together, but I've never gotten to formally connect with you. So it's very nice to have you here.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm psyched to be here. Your whole no-phone experiment fascinated me. And yeah, that was brilliant. And I always think about it.

• 7:34Mayim Bialik?

  Well, we are doing our best. Our phones are currently buzzing frequently because of the fires here, so forgive us if you hear.

• 7:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, how's it going? Oh, my goodness.

• 7:45Mayim Bialik?

  It's going OK. It's been, you know, it's been a heck of a start to 2025. Just, you know, it's kind of like Planes, Trains and Automobiles over here. It's a little nuts.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, what a bitch. But I feel like, yeah, and there's another one. There's more coming. Yeah. God, I'm so sorry. I live in New York City, but you know, we're all part of the same community, and I really feel for you. I mean, you're, and everyone out there.

• 8:10Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, it's, like I said, been quite, quite a start to the year, but we're very excited to talk to you. I wonder if you can kind of start us off with Wish You Were Here, which is now in theaters. Talk to us a little bit about the directing process for you. Really, I mean, I was saying to Jonathan, like, you work so consistently, and you keep working so consistently, which is so awesome, but directing is a whole other beast. Talk to us a little bit about why you wanted to do this film.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I actually had been wanting to direct for a long time, but was looking for the right Story. I mean, I might have been a little bit shy about it, like kind of half saying, I'd love to direct, but I'm a little bit, I'm not, I was, I was sort of um. Waiting for the, not waiting because I was actively, you know, trying to find the right book or the magazine articles or even trying to write my own screenplays that I could never finish. Until five years ago, one of the actresses who's in the movie who plays the best friend Helen. Um, her name's Gabby Kono Abdi. She um slid into my DMs on Instagram. And was like, I read that you are interested in directing. What about this book?

• 9:25Speaker 00

  And then she went through my agent and like the proper channels, um, but so it felt more real and serious, but. I read the book um by Renee Carlino and I had a visceral response to it. I thought. I, I was like laughing, crying, laughing through my tears and I could totally visualize it as a movie. And it also felt like the right genre for me to tackle the right and, and, and the, the scope of it, I felt like I could handle. So it was the, that was really the catalyst for me to go, okay. Now's the time. Um, and. I didn't know that it was going to take five years. I mean, really for independent films, that might not be a long time, but um. It's a testament to the story because it's sustained my interest for that long. Um.

• 10:06Speaker 00

  You know, the story has actually only gotten deeper and more meaningful to me and feels more necessary now. Like I, I knew I wanted to put something positive out into the world and something hopeful. And I'm kind of a romantic at heart, but what I love about this um. Book and movie is that it's um, I tried really hard to keep away from anything saccharine. And I felt like the main characters are really young, but the love story is so much deeper and kind of has an old soul and touches on things that are. Much more profound than just like love at first sight or dating or falling in love for the first time. It, it really is a reflection on like. We should be so lucky to create a lifetime of memories with somebody.

• 10:46Speaker 00

  Their love affair has kind of sped up because of circumstances. So I think that ages it, too.

• 10:53Mayim Bialik?

  I just like the idea that someone can slide into your DMs and be like, hey.

• 10:58Speaker 00

  I know. I mean, she also went through my agents, really. But like, it was, it was, it was, you know, I don't read every single message, but somehow she got my attention.

• 11:11Mayim Bialik?

  I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about sort of the the decision to want to be part of storytelling from that side of the camera in such a specific way.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  You know, I've been acting for, I'm sure, I can only guess that maybe you can relate to this a little bit.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  Acting for a really long time, been in all those blocking rehearsals where you hear directors talking about and cinematographers talking about where to point the camera and kind of wanting to be in on those conversations. And while I love acting so much, you know, being a performer is one little piece of the puzzle in terms of filmmaking. And I started to want to be in the driver's seat more.

• 11:54Speaker 00

  And, yeah, I also, there's like a logical part of my brain and a kind of a managerial part of my brain that doesn't get used as an actress that I wanted to tap into. And I loved it. I was totally hooked, totally, totally hooked. It's funny, because I feel like with all the technical stuff, camera angles and lenses and all that, I was really ready. I was like, I've heard these conversations before. I know how, I've got ideas about this. The design elements, too. But with the actors, I feel like I did everything that I swore I would never do as a director.

• 12:30Mayim Bialik?

  What did you do?

• 12:32Speaker 00

  Well, like, you go in with all these lofty ideas, thinking, I'm gonna let them have their space and give them time to feel it out. And let's talk about our inner monologue and our feelings and all that. And then when it comes down to it, you're like, do it faster, just happier.

• 12:48Jonathan Cohen?

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• 14:10Jonathan Cohen?

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• 15:31Jonathan Cohen?

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• 15:35Speaker 00

  Happier.

• 15:36Mayim Bialik?

  My experience, I got to, I wrote a screenplay and I directed it and I got to direct Dustin Hoffman. And I was extremely intimidated because I never thought he would even read this script that I wrote, but he did. And I remember, you know, I was so excited because I was like, I'm working with a very, very experienced, like Oscar award winning person. I'm not going to have to do anything. Like, he's going to do everything. And I had no idea. He wanted a lot of backstory and he wanted direction and he was like, what do you want? And tell me. And I was thinking like, that's the least, like, that's the thing you don't want to do. You want an actor to just be like, free to do whatever they want.

• 16:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 16:13Mayim Bialik?

  I wonder, like, were there times when you felt, gosh, this is an opportunity for me to try and undo the things that I don't like? Or did it just feel like there was so much momentum that you sort of just, at the end of the day, have to get the job done? And sometimes it just needs to be faster and funnier.

• 16:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of joking too. I think my actors got it and they were, and they, and I would often tell them, like, I would, I would be straight with them and just be like, listen, you know, this is what I'm dealing with. I tried to really just remain calm. That was the thing that I think is the common thread of all the good directors that I've ever worked with is that they, they just didn't carry their stress on the set and they were able to like, crack jokes and, you know. And that's the biggest thing, not feeling like you're being manipulated. That's one thing. That's why I was like, straight with my actors. I never wanted them to feel like I was, you know, doing something to try and get a performance out of them. I like to just level with everybody. But I also, I also cast, I didn't audition anybody because I don't, I think auditions are entirely awkward for everybody involved.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  So I, the lead in our film is Isabel Furman, who I had worked with on a movie called Orphan First Kill. And she was 23 years old, playing an 11 year old, and she was so convincing. And I would see her every day on set and just be like, wow, she's so talented. And I could see that she had the stamina to do, to be in every single scene every day. And that's what I needed for Wish You Were Here. But then, a lot of the smaller parts, I cast my friends and my sisters in it. And some of the male actors, like Mina Masood and Jimmy Fales, I was a fan of their work. And you, but you kind of get a sense, like, I can work with this person or they're, you know, they're super talented and um yeah,

• 17:59Speaker 00

  I uh I don't know, I I I just wanted to treat my actors like with respect and kindness and I yeah, I was sense it's like, I mean, it's like uh managing chaos and I when I made it clear to them that, you know, I would give them a lot of line readings, ugh, which I hate sometimes, but it was because well, I stopped myself because I remember I had these I had these lines in my head for like five years, so I had a certain intonation that I could hear and I would be doing take after take trying to get that and then I was like, oh, you need to get that out of your head and let them be their own people and have their own interpretation of this script and um that that took a second.

• 18:43Jonathan Cohen?

  There's a moment in the in the movie where two people come together and feel like they have known each other far longer than the moments that they've actually spent together. And what's interesting about that for this podcast is we talk a lot about the sort of the science of perception and, you know, is is time linear or not. So I'm curious if you have had that personal experience, whether it be friendship or elsewhere, where you have either met someone or there's been a situation you're like, this either feels so familiar or it doesn't feel like the amount of time we've actually been together is is could calculate the feeling that you felt.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  Oh, I I I can't think of like an example personally off the top of my head, but I know that I have because I responded to this book and and the things that I pulled from the book were the things that really gut punched me. So there are lines like um that when they when they first go back to his loft and they're starting to get closer, she says, this feels.

• 19:53Speaker 00

  This feels very familiar for two people who don't know each other. That's a line from the book and that's like, oh, how poetic. That's exactly what you're talking about, the feeling of familiarity, almost like déjà vu or something. But because the main character has glioblastoma, we find out later, and he's dying. He has, and the first night that they meet, it's before he's had any, an operation on his brain. His memory is really, and his confusion is really what starts to trigger beautiful moments with them where he, he says to her, tell me how we first met. And in the moment, we feel like, oh, he's just playing a game.

• 20:34Speaker 00

  And she starts weaving this story about their relationship that is, this sort of fantasy relationship that they have. But, and then the next morning, after, for all intents and purposes, they've been having a wonderful time together, things go south and he is like, you're not really my girlfriend. You know that, right? And it just gets weird. What we learn later and what he explains is that it was because his brain wasn't working and that he could, he was confused about what was reality, what was a memory. The, when she started telling him this story, he started to think that it was real, which is part of the tragedy.

• 21:08Jonathan Cohen?

  It's tragic, but it's also like metaphoric in how people build relationships, right? It's like, we're all coming together, trying to build a reality and some, whether your brain is working fully, you know, medically or not, we're each interpreting the experience slightly differently and then trying to share some reality. So what I, you know, struck me about that scene is that in that moment, it's actually two people trying to construct something and there's fantasy and there's play in any interaction, especially amongst two people who are learning who the other is. So to me, it was quite metaphoric about sort of the dance that many people are in as they get to know each other.

• 21:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I thought about that a lot in adapting the screenplay, but also just filming, you know, in the five years that I've been living with this story, that so much of what the book points out is that when you first start dating somebody, first start falling in love, you're kind of falling in love with the idea of them, or you're projecting a lot of stuff onto them that you don't know, thinking about a potential future with them, but you don't really, it's an idea of them. It's not necessarily who they are or who they're going to be over time.

• 22:25Jonathan Cohen?

  We actually have therapists say that all the time. Is that the biggest risk? That people go into relationships having this projection, and you're dating the idea and the potential and who you might become with them. And actually, you know, I forget who we were speaking to, but recently was that we asked for advice and they're like, actually, slow down and only be in this actual moment, because it's so easy to go into story and fantasy.

• 22:52Speaker 00

  Isn't that the idea of red flags too? That we sometimes ignore red flags because we're thinking, we have this creation, this idea of a person, or this hope for the relationship, and so we ignore what's right in front of us. It's like, I feel like Oprah's quoted this a lot, whether she came up with this idea or she's quoting somebody else, but she said, "When somebody shows you who they are, believe them." But in the movie, the person that Charlotte falls in love with in the first night versus the person that she's with the next morning is very different. You know, and that's part of the drama.

• 23:31Mayim Bialik?

  It's a painful story, but also it's very emotionally, it's very captivating, you know? And I think it really, I think that is why it touched us for sure, is this notion of, yeah, do any of us know what we're getting into? Right? When we partake of a relationship, we get to talk a lot about, let's say, people pleasing here. We talk a lot about mental wellness. We talk about our responsibility to ourselves in all sorts of different relationships. But I wonder if you can talk a little bit about sort of some of the... Some of the pressures that there are when we step into a role that is,

• 24:13Mayim Bialik?

  you know, in many cases, one of decision making, one of authority. I recently had a friend mention a work situation and she was, you know, sort of wondering if a man in her position would be called out the same way, for example, always being right and making people feel bad because she was always right. Can you talk a little bit about sort of your, you know, what it felt like for you to step into this role in that sense?

• 24:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, it's, there's so much. I mean, on the one hand, I think, I had the total respect of my crew and my actors and whether it's for whatever reason, you know, and that is something that is invaluable. And I was very, I've been on so many sets where I call it the mutiny. There's a thing where that happens where the, everyone can get really behind the director or there can be a flip and it just takes one person to then already, when you, it's one person and then it spreads, where people just start second guessing the director and doubting them. And then that's it, you're done. And so I was very conscious of not letting that happen.

• 25:23Speaker 00

  But I don't know, in terms of being like the female part of it. I mean, I think my approach to storytelling might be a little bit different. And also, I'd like to say, I have three kids and I think that being a mom was perfect, has been perfect training for being a director, aside from my time on film sets, because the management skills and the management of chaos, being a good multitasker, being able to manage a budget and time and think 10 steps ahead, but also be in the present moment, manage people's emotions, guide them, but also, you know, be firm in your, in your purpose.

• 26:06Speaker 00

  It's all stuff that I have learned from being a parent and I took that into the set with me.

• 26:11Jonathan Cohen?

  You have to know when people are hangry.

• 26:13Speaker 00

  A hundred percent. Your hangry meter has to be up. Yes. Let's have a snack. Everybody, let's have a snack.

• 26:20Mayim Bialik?

  Let's, let's go back a little bit to sort of.

• 26:25Mayim Bialik?

  The start of your career, you started in theater, is that right?

• 26:30Speaker 00

  I started with a, as a member of like a very off-Broadway theater company in New York, where I grew up. I was a child. I mean, I was 12 years old when I did my first play. I didn't have any lines. I was like asleep on the stage the whole time while they, while the story went on. But it was friends of my parents and they needed a kid in their show. And I loved performing, I mean, in school plays or whatever. And I was in dance classes. But, and then I loved it and was a part of the company. So we would do two plays a year and I had some part in it. And then they helped me find an agent and I started auditioning, but didn't really work more regularly until the end of high school.

• 27:13Mayim Bialik?

  And when you were 17, that was kind of your, your first large-scale production, as it were, is that right?

• 27:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was the first lead role studio movie, Ten Things I Hate About You.

• 27:24Mayim Bialik?

  That's a, that's a big one for your first.

• 27:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I had been in an independent film. I had been in like commercials, a couple commercials and, you know.

• 27:34Mayim Bialik?

  But once that, once that kind of came out, that sort of seems like, I mean, I'm literally, I'm, I'm looking at your career, you, you didn't stop working, pretty much.

• 27:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, it's true. It's funny though, recently, not recently, like in my 30s, I feel like I had a lot of people on the street being like, are you still acting? But I kept, I was working. I've, you know, I've been lucky to keep working as an actress. Some movies are hugely successful and some movies, nobody.

• 28:01Mayim Bialik?

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• 28:42Mayim Bialik?

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• 29:27Mayim Bialik?

  kept me on track. Starting my day with this easy, health-focused task reminds me to continue to make healthy choices the rest of the day. For a limited time, visit drinkag1.com/breakdown and get a free immune support bundle, including omega-3 fish oil and vitamin D3 plus K2 with your first subscription of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/breakdown. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Myobiox Breakdown sent you. You've been quoted as talking about, you know, being too serious, even at, you know, seventeen, or kind of being perceived as too serious or kind of not what people expected.

• 30:08Mayim Bialik?

  I like to talk about how people would often see me in the street when I was about that age and say, "Why are you not smiling?" And, you know, obviously, from today's lens, like, I can be much more outraged than I was then. You know, I felt a certain amount of, like, shame and confusion, but also, you know, outrage, just personally. What were you like as a seventeen-year-old? You know, what did that feel like that maybe felt different from what a lot of people expect of our seventeen-year-old actresses?

• 30:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I just had a light bulb go off where I'm like, wait a minute. I grew up in New York City where you don't smile at like, especially a 17 year old girl walking down the street is not going to be smiling at people because that's dangerous. I mean, I just like the street smarts in me knew not to do that. But I was pretty angsty, not even, I was very thought, I mean, I was very like, I was really into Ani DeFranco, you know, if you think about her lyrics and her, her perspective on the world, that's kind of where my head was at. Or like Riot Girl bands like the Luna Chicks and everything was like really important. And so you go into like commercial auditions and when they're saying like, you need to smile more when you talk about how great Tide is, it was hard for me.

• 31:24Speaker 00

  You know, I wanted to be like a serious actress, but you're young and everybody wants something else.

• 31:32Mayim Bialik?

  So what, what was 10 Things I Hate About You like in that sense? What did it feel like to perform? What did it feel like to sort of match the person that you were with this, you know, career that basically took off from, you know, from that moment?

• 31:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, that script was revelatory to me. That part spoke to me so much, I wanted it so badly. And it was written by two badass female writers, Karen McCullough-Lutz and Kristen Smith, who went on to write Legally Blonde and a lot of, what I really love about their writing too, is that I love when people can take something and write, write something very authentic that says something, but is also entertaining and can become commercially successful and reach a wider audience. But I loved the script so much and I loved that Kat was outspoken and feisty and didn't really care what other people thought of her. It was almost aspirational for me to be that, that kind of independent and confident.

• 32:31Mayim Bialik?

  And obviously, you know, starring with Heath Ledger, it obviously has lasting interest for a lot of people because of his career and, and his life. But when you think about that movie, sort of what, what are the lasting things that, that people most talk to you about when they come up to you and want to talk about that movie?

• 32:51Speaker 00

  I don't know that I get that deeply into it, but I think, I mean, first I think they're just entertained because there's a lot of humor in the film, obviously. And

• 33:01Speaker 00

  I don't know, maybe it's like a time capsule, a special moment in time. Because I know that I and the other actors were having the time of our lives and also just very open-hearted and not like cynical in any way yet, or jaded in any way yet. And so it just captured a moment. But when people, I don't know, I don't usually get that far into the conversation. It's like, it's, I thank you so much, I'm so glad that you liked the movie. And I can kind of guess based on their age, or whatever, or gender, why they, what they responded to.

• 33:38Mayim Bialik?

  I want to ask about Save the Last Dance, because I'd love to hear more about your dance life. Meaning, were your early aspirations to be a dancer? Was it just something that a lot of kids take dance classes? And what was that like doing that film? Sort of what are the lasting impressions that you feel people have from it?

• 33:57Speaker 00

  I mean, I did take dance classes, modern dance mostly. I took ballet, but then I, by the time I was supposed to go on point, I couldn't really do that.

• 34:07Speaker 00

  And so, modern dance, but like, strict modern dance was my thing. Tap and jazz and all that. So, but I also, I ended up going to a performing arts school once I started working more, like towards the end of high school. And there were, it was, everyone was divided into their own majors. So I was an actress, but there were all these ballerinas from School of American Ballet. And I wanted to be one of the ballerinas so badly.

• 34:34Speaker 00

  So, getting to do Save the Last Dance was like a wonderful opportunity to kind of do more strict dance training.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  And, yeah, it was tough. I mean, because I was my own worst critic and, you know, I was never going to be able to go on point. So that was doubled, but the rest of it was me. And I think I was hired because they really wanted to find somebody who could do more of the contemporary stuff too. And I guess the director told me that he, you know, the dance scene or whatever in 10 Things I Hate About You was. Um, one of the reasons that I got hired, but I have not been to a single dance class since that movie. I love dance and movement. Um, I watch Dancing with the Stars religiously. It's my Monday night football. Uh, I dance a lot in my living room.

• 35:24Speaker 00

  Um, during the pandemic, I would do home dance aerobics classes on YouTube or whatever. Um, but I have not been to an actual class because I, Zumba, I might dabble in, but uh, I, I just would feel self-conscious. I don't know. I have to get over that.

• 35:43Jonathan Cohen?

  I don't want to out you, Mayim, but you were just at a dance class the other day for the first time in quite a while.

• 35:48Mayim Bialik?

  I, I put on ballet shoes for the first time in 37 years, Julia.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  Wow, wow. We see, oh, wow, that's so inspirational.

• 35:56Mayim Bialik?

  It was very, very.

• 35:57Speaker 00

  How did it feel?

• 35:58Mayim Bialik?

  So, uh, funny you should ask. So the last time that I was in a ballet class, I had not yet hit puberty, meaning like, I had a completely different body. Like I was a different, I looked more like my 19-year-old does now than my 19-year-old son than, uh, I do now. It was, uh, very challenging. You know, you have in your mind, and I don't know, maybe you can relate, you have in your mind what you'd like to dance like when you're a grown-up who's had children. Um, I remember one of the most interesting things after I had kids was the first time I like went to any workout class. It didn't feel like my body could leave the ground the way I envisioned and, you know,

• 36:42Mayim Bialik?

  and like it wasn't because I was a certain, you know, poundage. It was like whatever juice was required to crank out two humans and keep them alive. It's like it took my jumping force from me.

• 36:55Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah. It grounded you, I totally, but let's not forget you cranked out humans. I mean, like, I, I feel like my body is stronger than ever, even though I probably, I, I, I would be horrific in a dance class. I don't know, but it's, it's a different kind of strength, you know? Let's not forget that.

• 37:15Mayim Bialik?

  That's true, that's true. I mean, it's true, they wouldn't be alive if not for me. So that is definitely a source of strength. But, uh, but yeah, being a grown-up, like I. I was picturing my body doing things that it should do if I didn't have hips or breasts.

• 37:31Speaker 00

  Right, right, right.

• 37:33Mayim Bialik?

  You know, like when the arm comes over, like, oh, it's not used to the inside of my arm hitting a breast. There weren't breasts there 37 years ago. Like, that's not the way that the Devlepa is gonna work.

• 37:45Speaker 00

  I know. Well, that's kind of the tragedy of ballet, too, is that the bodies have to be prepubescent.

• 37:49Mayim Bialik?

  Correct.

• 37:50Speaker 00

  Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I know exactly what you mean.

• 37:53Mayim Bialik?

  But I was the youngest by about 30 years in my class, and that felt good.

• 37:58Mayim Bialik?

  All the young ladies in, I think, Los Angeles and New York are at like some fancy gym, like getting their workout.

• 38:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, the dance aerobics cardio, cardio dance is a big thing now. But I'll tell you what I love. If you're into dancing, I mean, if you're into dancing or kind of similar idea, and being 30 years younger than everybody else, I love aquazumba. I don't know if they offer it at your local YMCA or near you, but it's like water aerobics. And I go and I, I just like, nobody can see your body because you're underwater. You don't have to see what you look like or what the dance looks like, but it feels good. And it's in, anyway, I, I love it. You should try it. And then you get to hear, you get to hear the ladies in the locker room afterward gabbing about whatever.

• 38:45Mayim Bialik?

  Is this something you can do relatively anonymously?

• 38:49Speaker 00

  I'd like to think so, with my swim cap on and.

• 38:52Jonathan Cohen?

  Swim cap, goggles.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  Well, not after talking about it on the podcast, probably, but.

• 38:57Mayim Bialik?

  That's true. All the, all the ladies may know now.

• 38:59Speaker 00

  No. I mean, I think so. Yeah, I, I feel pretty comfortable.

• 39:04Jonathan Cohen?

  You could just be floating, you jump, you just fly forever.

• 39:07Mayim Bialik?

  So I've done, I have done an aerobics class at, like, in Mexico at a resort. And it was like the thing that they offered at 4:00 PM, you know, with your daiquiri poolside. I did enjoy it, and it feels good to feel, you know, weightless. That's the other thing. Like, if you are a grown up, right, like if you're a grown up person trying to propel your body off the ground, yeah, it's very different. Things don't spring the way they used to.

• 39:36Mayim Bialik?

  Speaking of anonymity, can you talk a bit about, about fame? What did it feel like to get famous when you were a teenager?

• 39:46Speaker 00

  Um, I think I, I put blinders on or something. It was, uh, it was really exciting and I knew, you know, I, it was something, I guess, it afforded me more, more work and it was the thing that, you know, theoretically as an actor, you're, you're working towards. And so it was really, really exciting and I got to, I got to travel the world and I got to go to all these fun events and I was invited to stuff, you know, I was offered more work, but um, I think there was a part of me that was a little scared of it. And so I enrolled in college and I think I kind of tried to treat that as like, okay,

• 40:27Speaker 00

  I can't control this external thing, so I'm, I, but I can control, you know, my studies and uh, that's what I focused on. But looking back on it, I'm like, well, and even friends that I still have from college, when we reminisce, I'm like, that was a weird time because, you know, I was a bit in a fishbowl at school as well, or it felt that way, I don't know. But I was, um, at the time, I, I had, I had blinders on it and I was like, I'm just gonna live my normal life and that'll be fine.

• 40:54Mayim Bialik?

  Um, fame was different then.

• 40:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:58Mayim Bialik?

  Can you, can you talk a little bit, you know, I, I like to remind people that when there is no kind of PR machine operating for, for teenage girls, you, you get to have a different kind of life, meaning, you know, when I would go to red carpets, it wasn't like designer clothes and manicures and fillers and all these things that a lot of, you know, girls even in their teens and, and twenties obviously are doing. Can you talk a little bit about what fame was like then versus what you see it being like now for, let's say, a 17-year-old who, you know, gets a big break?

• 41:31Speaker 00

  Yes, 100% there wasn't, um, styling, so, you know, for better or worse. I think, uh, there also wasn't the proliferation of social media, so I, I wasn't documenting everything with my phone, but I also, um, also didn't, didn't have my own sort of outlet through social media, which I guess is kind of a positive side of it. But, but there also wasn't, you know, if I, uh, did something stupid, it wasn't immediately recorded. Um, so that's nice. Yeah. And, and it was a big, the industry was very different too. I mean, studios, I feel like, um...

• 42:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, I feel like the industry was very different. The size of movies was very different. The, I don't know.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  That's, that's the biggest thing. I think that social media has changed. I see, I see, um, you know, the actors in my movie are very young and they're very active on social media as are their peers and it's, it's a tool that they use. And I, and so on, on some level, I think it gives them a lot more control, but it also means that they're, you know, actively on their phones a lot more.

• 42:44Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, it's both this like outlet and you have a channel to express yourself, but it's also an endless hole of consuming time and energy and you never know how it's going to pay off. Like even for us who were doing this podcast, we want people to know about it. There's a balance between what feels like creative expression and we want to share and we want people to be aware and what feels like you could create endless amounts of content and where does it go?

• 43:12Speaker 00

  Right, right, right. No, I think also it's, it's, um, the difference is that when I, yeah, it's, it's endless and, and like you constantly have to be, uh, recording something or, or sharing something. And whereas when I was in my twenties, there was a specific time for promotion, promotion. You go and you have the movie coming out and you do the screening and you do the press day and then you're off duty and your life can be, you know, your own. Um, I think that's very valuable time.

• 43:45Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, I wonder about that trade off that we have now because when you're off, you get inspired. You have, you go and have experiences and you're not necessarily thinking about how to capture them. And then you can translate that into some form of art, but as the distance between experience and producing that experience to display it has truncated, now it feels like there's almost no time to get inspired before our thoughts kick in.

• 44:15Jonathan Cohen?

  Or some of our thoughts kick into, well, how is that going to be packaged and shared? And is the experience worth anything if I don't immediately think about how to turn it into something? May not be Instagram posts, but maybe it's a screenplay. And like, I think artists as a whole, while we have more opportunity to express ourselves than ever before, we're actually being robbed of the time that we used to marinate in ideas and develop sort of a well of creativity to then think about how to, how to package or how to translate.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, and also friendships become more, um, broadcast, I don't know, I want to say like, uh, I have so many friends who are not in entertainment and it's because of that time. And from my, from college or my early twenties where like, that time off duty was part of that.

• 45:07Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, you're like, let's put our phones down, let's not think about capturing this and tagging the other person.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  Exactly, and tagging and liking things and friendships can be, to not, have become maybe more opportunistic if I'm going to be cynical, but I hate being cynical.

• 45:20Jonathan Cohen?

  I don't think it's cynical as much as an observation. Mayim gets on me a little bit about this. She's like, I can have a cynical lens, but my goal is not to necessarily be all doom and gloom versus like, if we are aware of the thing, then we can make a conscious effort on how to address it or relate to it versus if we don't think about it or articulate it, we end up being in this, we still relate to it, but like, on a non-conscious level. So we're either in the cycle of it or, you know, we're pushed in the opposite direction, if that makes sense.

• 45:56Mayim Bialik?

  I would love to talk about sort of one of these, like when you went to college was one of these times that you were, I don't want to say retreating, because that's not really the word, but you were taking time to be out of the industry. And is that, am I correct with this timing, that that's when you first got the script for the first Born film?

• 46:14Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, I didn't get the whole script, I got the sides, which is just the, you know, it's just the pages for the scenes that you're in, because it was very secretive. Um, and I was in my freshman dorm and I remember, this is how

• 46:30Speaker 00

  Weird my head was at the time. I was like, oh, but I can't go and do this movie because I have my final exams coming up and I'll lose all my credits. And luckily, somebody was like, are you crazy? And talked me out of it. And it was like, you need to do this movie because I was actually only supposed to be in the first one. My character died in an early cut and then they recut it so that she survived. And I went on to make three more movies after that. And it was like, a wonderful, amazing franchise to be a part of and worked with some amazing people, Matt Damon, Paul Greengrass, you know, and traveled the world, went to some amazing places. So I did lose my credits for that semester, but I was able to, you know, I was able, it took me a little bit longer to graduate, but that's fine.

• 47:14Mayim Bialik?

  Was your time in college otherwise uninterrupted then?

• 47:18Speaker 00

  Uh, I would defer, it took me five years to graduate once I started, but I also took a year off after high school to work. So, but yeah, pretty much uninterrupted, uninterrupted after that because five years I would have made up a semester.

• 47:34Mayim Bialik?

  Your plan was never to not return to acting though, correct? You wanted to have this experience. Tell us about sort of what that decision was like and then, you know, what you chose to study and why? And if it ever occurred to you that you could have a whole other life outside of the industry?

• 47:52Speaker 00

  I mean, I think for a second I was like, looking at my peers going, oh, and also that imposter syndrome that we all have where you're like, what's my backup plan? Because I may never work again. Thinking about what I was interested in and would there, maybe there would be another career that I'd want. And very quickly realized that there was nothing that I was capable of, but also that I, you know, that gave me as much satisfaction as

• 48:18Speaker 00

  working in film and on stage. And, and so I majored in English, which, you know, didn't, it was because I loved reading and words and storytelling. But I think I realize that more now in retrospect, particularly with Wish You Were Here, I feel like

• 48:37Speaker 00

  When I finished adapting the screenplay and then also editing the film, I was like, oh, that's where my English degree counted. It was for something because I learned a lot about storytelling and, you know, the classic structures of storytelling or the different structures of storytelling. I remember thinking consciously when I read the book for the first time, I was like, oh, here, this has the rom com elements that can pull the audience's attention in, but it has the elements of a classic tragic love story because there's an obstacle that will keep them apart, you know? I was, anyway, the nerdy English major in me was like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that all makes sense now.

• 49:22Mayim Bialik?

  How old are your kids?

• 49:24Speaker 00

  Seven, three and one.

• 49:26Mayim Bialik?

  Wow, okay, so.

• 49:27Speaker 00

  I'm in it.

• 49:28Mayim Bialik?

  You are, you are right in it. I mean, you were in it with the first and then you went for a second and then a third. I give you a lot of credit.

• 49:36Mayim Bialik?

  What, what, what would it be like? I mean, I'm kind of curious if you, if you thought about, you know, I, I think about sort of how you describe it. It seems like there was always part of you that knew you loved performing and that was, you know, you were able to, to make a life and, you know, and an entire career out of it. When you think about your kids, what do you, what do you imagine? You know, if their passion were to, to point them in that direction?

• 50:03Speaker 00

  I mean, I, you know, oh, my God, there's so much in the movie, I will just say, that is inspired by my kids in, in terms of that pretend playful, childlike joy that I think I put, I put between the two main characters and why I ceased on the storytelling aspect of it because there's, there's, there's moments when they're under a blanket together and, and it's just the two of them in this, you know, little magical tent and they play a game called the copycat game where they, they speak at the same, you know, there's, one person is speaking and the other one's trying to speak the exact same words at the same time.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  And even the weaving a story, you know, making up a story, that all is so childlike, which is a different kind of love. And anyway, but I, you know, so I would support, I would support any drive that they have towards whatever it is that they want to be. I think that they're obviously very young, we'll see where it goes. I do believe, though, that. Children, like my, my kids should be allowed to be kids until they're grownups. They don't need to work before they're, um, grownups. Uh, so I'll have to figure out how to navigate that if it ever comes up. Um, I mean, you know, I have no, I have no regrets and I, and I certainly am grateful for all of my experience, even as a kid, uh, on film sets or teenager on film sets and a kid on stage.

• 51:30Speaker 00

  Um, it was all really wonderful, but I think, uh, you know, being a child is a time for, um, freedom. I get uncomfortable, I get uncomfortable for making mistakes too, you know, not having, we get so much discipline from the world and from school that we don't really need that in the workplace. Um, I get uncomfortable with working with young kids on set because as much as their parents can be wonderful, and I always hate it when on sets when they demonize the parents and call them stage parents because I think they're just trying to do their best most of the time. I understand when I was a kid, I really, really, really wanted to do this and my parents bent over backwards to allow that to happen and it afforded me so many wonderful things and a career.

• 52:16Speaker 00

  Um, but, and they protected me in a lot of ways, but I, uh, I just feel now as an adult looking at kids on a film set is so artificial and it, it, it just, it makes me uncomfortable.

• 52:30Mayim Bialik?

  We, um, we recently spoke to, um, to Drake Bell and, um, talked a lot about Quiet on Set documentary with him and, um, we were very grateful that he wanted to talk to us about it. But one of the things that he mentioned was he was one of those kids who people referred to as an old soul. And I know you've talked a little bit about this, that's something people always said about me, like it's just something I always heard. I, I wonder if you can sort of, um, maybe, you know, give a little bit of context to what kind of personality, you know, you, you recall having as a teenager? Um, and, and sort of the ways that maybe you feel that did kind of protect you, um, and give you, um, you know, give you some, some autonomy that maybe other kids didn't have.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  I mean, I was very precocious. Maybe it was partially growing up in New York City. But, and, uh, yeah, I don't know. But I, but you know, I did have, my mom was always

• 53:30Speaker 00

  very encouraging of any sort of artistic endeavor. But she also encouraged me to really believe, like, how do I say this without sounding like a cliche? She was never really focused on physical beauty, which is interesting and a really wonderful thing to have in my back pocket as a young actress.

• 53:50Speaker 00

  She always emphasized your ideas and what you contribute to the world. So I think that really equipped me really well into, in terms of going into this industry.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  But you can say old, I don't know, old soul, like,

• 54:07Speaker 00

  I don't know. I, I don't know if, I, I probably projected that, but still had all the youth and vulnerability that was normal for that age.

• 54:18Jonathan Cohen?

  Parents with kids your age have no free time. But if you had free time and you had a day to yourself and you weren't working, what would you do?

• 54:26Speaker 00

  What, this is the funny thing. I, when I do have any bit of free time, I don't know what to do with myself. I've forgotten what, no. I would either, um, it depends, it depends on the weather. I'd probably, I would, I would go out for a really long walk and listen to my headphones, listen to music,

• 54:45Speaker 00

  get some exercise. I'd love swimming, uh, read a book uninterrupted, take a really, like a bath for an entire day,

• 54:57Speaker 00

  watch, catch up on TV shows that are not Bluey.

• 55:04Jonathan Cohen?

  You can't skip your Bluey. Got to make sure you have enough of that.

• 55:07Speaker 00

  I love Bluey so much, but, um, I'm behind on the Oscar nominees. You know what I'm saying?

• 55:14Mayim Bialik?

  I'm curious, do you have, um, do you have a religious faith? Do you have a meditation practice? Like, what is your connection with something greater than yourself? You seem to have, um, I don't know, you seem like a very centered, grounded, reasonable person. I'm curious, what is it, what does it look like for you to sort of maintain your emotional sanity?

• 55:37Speaker 00

  Uh, I do not follow a specific religion. I'm, I am spiritual in that, um, without getting too personal, like, have a sort of prayer that I say frequently. It's just kind of gratitude, um, for, and I like visualize colors, um, let go with it. But it's like gratitude for all the things that I'm grateful for.

• 56:02Mayim Bialik?

  Hang on one second. I'm not gonna try and poke into your personal life, but can you explain what the colors? What do you mean, there's colors?

• 56:10Speaker 00

  Uh, as I say the thing that I'm grateful for, there's usually, so, so the simplest thing, again, without getting too personal, because there are more specific things that are personal. Um, I'll say like, thank you for love. And there's a color for love is usually like, I imagine like beams of light of this color surrounding me and surrounding around me. So red and, or, uh, or lighter shades of red are usually, uh, you know, you can't control your brain as much as you would like to think. So I'll imagine the color in it, sometimes the color shifts, but, um, uh, for love and then for life. Life is usually blue, which sometimes turns into purple.

• 56:52Speaker 00

  And, uh, and health, and health has been, this started, I think, when I was pregnant. Um, health is usually green or yellow. But then I, I go on to think about, meditate on other things. So it's kind of meditation, but.

• 57:09Mayim Bialik?

  Do you have a meditation practice? Yoga, like, these are some of the things that sometimes people do?

• 57:14Speaker 00

  I used to do a lot of yoga and I, I did it regularly. And that's where the, the meditation of gratitude and the colors that I imagined, uh, that sort of prayer was always at the end of the yoga class or yoga practice.

• 57:30Speaker 00

  It's kind of with kids and stuff, it's kind of morphed into, but yeah, it's yoga was always had a spiritual element to the exercise part of it for me. So now they've they've kind of separated and I do like exercise and then the meditation is just on its own. It's not very long, guys. It's like two seconds. Whenever I hear, whenever I hear people talk about like transcendental meditation or they do 20 minutes in the morning, an hour in the morning and 20 minutes at night, I'm like, who are you?

• 57:59Mayim Bialik?

  Someone without children who are seven, three and one. Speaking of which, I'm, I'm curious. I, I, I know it's obnoxious, like you have this awesome movie that just came out and I know you don't want to be asked what you're doing next, but I am curious, especially with your parenting schedule and with this movie coming out. What do you want to do next?

• 58:19Speaker 00

  I would love to direct another movie. I don't know exactly what that will be. I'm just kind of creatively coming out of the Wish You Were Here cycle and have some like kernels of ideas of what I'd be interested in doing. But I don't know exactly what that is. I'm probably gonna work on a movie as an actress in the spring.

• 58:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know. Honestly, Wish You Were Here has been all consuming, you know, in terms of creativity and work. And so I'm just coming out of it, but I would love to direct another movie. I actually honestly would love to direct music videos, but I don't think people really do that much anymore because I love putting music to this movie. It was really, um, yeah, that was so special. I really enjoyed it. I'm not a musician, but I, I love music.

• 59:13Mayim Bialik?

  Can we do a rapid fire with you?

• 59:15Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 59:15Mayim Bialik?

  Okay. This is rapid fire. Breakdown Style with Julia Stiles. What was your mother right about?

• 59:22Speaker 00

  Be financially independent.

• 59:25Mayim Bialik?

  What was your father right about?

• 59:27Speaker 00

  How to drive.

• 59:29Mayim Bialik?

  Location that promotes your best mental health.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  The beach. So I would, the beach or Europe? How about beaches in Europe?

• 59:36Mayim Bialik?

  Okay.

• 59:37Speaker 00

  I spent a long time on a, working on a TV show called Riviera and we got to film in the south of France and I lived in Nice, which is such an amazing city and it's on the French Riviera. And so, yeah, the European way of life where they live, they work to live, no, they work to live, they don't live to work.

• 59:58Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 59:59Speaker 00

  And there's so much about it that's great, but then also just the water there is really soothing.

• 1:00:06Mayim Bialik?

  Sometimes people take their tops off at the beaches there.

• 1:00:09Speaker 00

  And there's a lot of topless people, for better or worse, you know? I don't know that these tatas are gonna see any sunshine because three kids later, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:00:18Mayim Bialik?

  I actually had a dream last night about one of my kids being breastfeeding age again. And it was very interesting.

• 1:00:25Speaker 00

  As a baby or as a full grown?

• 1:00:26Mayim Bialik?

  No, as a baby, sorry. As a, as a baby, but in the dream, I was very, I was aware of how different my body looked breastfeeding, because it was like

• 1:00:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:00:38Mayim Bialik?

  my body now as opposed to what my body looked like when I was 30 and breastfeeding. Anyway, it was very interesting and I'm sure my therapist will have a lot to say about it. Okay, next question. Do you have a mantra or a saying that you like?

• 1:00:52Speaker 00

  A couple. Actually, this too shall pass, something that my grandmother always said, and seek happiness. Something that my mother says a lot.

• 1:01:01Mayim Bialik?

  Who's been your best spiritual teacher?

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  My children.

• 1:01:06Mayim Bialik?

  Say more.

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  Oh, you know, the thing, I mean, I'd also say my mom, because she's so wise, but, and has a good heart. But my kids, because, you know, kids just keep you going. Like, you, you can have whatever you're dealing with and

• 1:01:26Speaker 00

  The kids are like, gotta get up in the morning and need to have breakfast and one foot in front of the other. And they also, I just say the funniest things. And I think there was some moment that I was stressed out. I wrote it down and I actually put it in a note to myself in our Christmas ornaments to open then the next year when I get the box of Christmas ornaments out. But it was to remind me of this. There was like one of those moments where you're trying to get out the door and nobody's listening or whatever, we're running late and I'm starting to get stressed out. And my son just broke the circuit and was like, mommy, do you know that unicorns poop rainbows?

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  Like, it's just, you know, that changes it.

• 1:02:12Jonathan Cohen?

  What was your answer to that?

• 1:02:13Speaker 00

  I did not know that. That's adorable. I did not know that.

• 1:02:17Jonathan Cohen?

  Now you can pass that information along.

• 1:02:20Speaker 00

  But it's like, he was like, no sweat. It's okay.

• 1:02:23Mayim Bialik?

  Have you had a moment of best intuition?

• 1:02:27Speaker 00

  Well, it was intuition, but then it became a conscious thing. The act, you know, when you're directing a movie, a lot of times you kind of have to go with your gut, but then you're asked to justify your, your opinions, you know, to a lot of people. There's a sequence in the movie where they go on a sailboat. And in the book, it was, it's because he says in the hospital, I can't just sit here and wait to die. I have to go out into the world and do something. And that was a very important moment to me that I highlighted in the film. But it launches their trip together. And in the book, they go all over the world. But I thought, I have to distill this for a movie. They can't, it's too frenetic. They can't go, you know, to all these different places. I just want to land with these characters

• 1:03:12Speaker 00

  and be with them in, in a very special place, one special place. And for four years, everybody, good producers, doing their job, tried to talk me out of the sailboat because it's expensive and because it's too complicated to film on, safety wise and all that. Because it's like filming on satellites and you're contending with weather and all that. And, and I just for initially was like, nope, has to be sailboat. And then because I had to keep defending that for years, I had to come up with rational reasons why, why it's this and explain why a sailboat cinematic and.

• 1:03:50Speaker 00

  You know, symbolizes freedom and it feels like they're traveling and moving and but I wasn't initially I couldn't articulate exactly why I was just like, no, this is the one thing I'm not going to pivot on.

• 1:04:01Mayim Bialik?

  I love that. And I'm assuming it was worth it for you.

• 1:04:05Speaker 00

  Totally, totally.

• 1:04:06Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  It's the opening image of the movie.

• 1:04:08Jonathan Cohen?

  How did you justify it to people? At a certain point, was it just like, I know this needs to happen and back off like, or did you try to really rationalize it and have to use logic to convince?

• 1:04:20Speaker 00

  I'm sure that I, yes, I mean, because there were lots of other ideas thrown at me and I was like, no, it's not as satisfying and it's not even even actually when we finally were able to film, we were, they, we, it was accepted. Okay, we're going to spring for a boat and we're going to try and make get marine safety coordinators involved and we're going to go out on the water. It's still then it was then it was pitched to me to be a motor yacht. And I was like, no, a motor yacht, it looks different and signifies different. It just feels different. It, it, it's a symbol more of wealth and it's automatic and I just need the old school sailboat. So yeah, I had to articulate very specifically why. Yeah,

• 1:05:05Speaker 00

  I think it was about what I explained was that like, I needed them to be isolated and alone. I needed them to be have this feeling of movement and freedom. It's pretty, you know, that sort of thing.

• 1:05:18Mayim Bialik?

  Who are you most competitive with?

• 1:05:20Speaker 00

  Myself.

• 1:05:21Mayim Bialik?

  I'm the only person who, when asked who I'm most competitive with, I say Jonathan. And everyone else, everyone else we ask is like myself. So I may have to eliminate that from our rapid fire. Everybody gives the same answer, except me.

• 1:05:34Speaker 00

  I'm sorry. It's true. I don't think, yeah, my having a good quote, though. Comparison is the thief of joy. That's the thing that stops me from being super competitive with other people.

• 1:05:45Mayim Bialik?

  Well, I am not joyful, so that would explain it. All right. Last question. What do you know to be true?

• 1:05:52Speaker 00

  Uh, God, I'm gonna say it and you're gonna think that I'm corny. Um.

• 1:05:59Speaker 00

  Oh, I know that I know nothing at all. Bam. That's not an original idea.

• 1:06:04Jonathan Cohen?

  I want the corny one.

• 1:06:05Speaker 00

  The corny one. Oh, I just feel, I, I, it goes back to why I wanted to make this movie. And I'm not just shamelessly self-promoting. I know that we need more love and hope in this world. And that's what I wanted to put out in the world. Um, I went on The View today and they were talking about politics as they do. And it put me into a total depression and I have to keep going back to, I wanna, I put something out into the world. I want people to turn the little cynical part of their brains off and just open their hearts and, you know, escape for a second. But for 90 minutes. Um, yeah, we need it. We need to stop treating each other like trash.

• 1:06:42Jonathan Cohen?

  I support that.

• 1:06:43Mayim Bialik?

  Uh, Julia, it's really such a pleasure to get to talk to you. Um, Wish You Were Here is now in theaters and it's just been really wonderful to get to pick your brain about all sorts of things. So thank you so much for being here.

• 1:06:54Speaker 00

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:06:58Mayim Bialik?

  I appreciate that she kept certain aspects of that meditation private, but um, I thought that was really interesting that she mentioned the colors. I didn't want to be critical because you can't be critical of someone's meditation. But I thought it was interesting that the colors she chose did not correspond to the chakras that usually we think about. Meaning like when she said love, I was like, she's gonna say jade green. She's gonna say jade green. Cause like that chakra is, is green. But um, again, I'm not criticizing. I just thought it was kind of funny that I was like waiting for the colors that I thought her meditation practice should evoke.

• 1:07:35Jonathan Cohen?

  This is the challenge of knowing too much information. It kind of thwarts the creative process.

• 1:07:41Mayim Bialik?

  Can you imagine if I would have said to her, well, Julia, um, if you're, if you're trying to manifest love, I suggest you think about jade green instead of the colors that you want to think about.

• 1:07:55Jonathan Cohen?

  This book from ancient India clearly depicts that the color for the appropriate chakra.

• 1:08:02Mayim Bialik?

  She would have been like-

• 1:08:03Jonathan Cohen?

  She would have just walked away. She would have just walked away.

• 1:08:06Mayim Bialik?

  She would have been like, "I shared about my meditation with you, and now you don't like the colors I chose."

• 1:08:11Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, I wondered if she was taught this meditation or she developed it, but it sounds like it came out of a yoga practice.

• 1:08:17Mayim Bialik?

  Yep.

• 1:08:18Jonathan Cohen?

  So we deciphered that. That was good sleuthing on our part.

• 1:08:22Mayim Bialik?

  My yoga teacher, Heather, who talks about that beautiful jade green pool, just the jade green pool.

• 1:08:28Jonathan Cohen?

  Just envision love. Bathe in the jade green pool, you can become love. If you were in New York City and you did not have children or Louis to attend to, and you had the whole day to yourself, no one else is with you. I know sometimes you like to see friends, you like to see family. You're in New York, you have a whole day to yourself, what do you do?

• 1:08:51Mayim Bialik?

  Uh, I've had, I've had days to myself in, in New York.

• 1:08:56Jonathan Cohen?

  Not past days. Now, we drop you in New York next week, it's-

• 1:09:02Mayim Bialik?

  Well, it's winter. I love winter in New York. Oh, you gotta be bundled up.

• 1:09:05Jonathan Cohen?

  You have your scarf, you have your mittens.

• 1:09:07Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, so it's never too cold for a bagel.

• 1:09:11Jonathan Cohen?

  Okay, where are you getting your bagel?

• 1:09:13Mayim Bialik?

  Well, okay, so I get my bagel anywhere that I can get,

• 1:09:19Mayim Bialik?

  tofu scallion cream cheese. But if they don't have tofu scallion cream cheese, I will go for the regular. Now, it's not tofu. I know people are like, "That sounds disgusting." It's a soy-based, uh, it's a soy-based, it's trashy. It's a trashy fake cream cheese and it's delicious, and I, I do it very rarely. But for whatever reason, in like all the bagel shops, that's how you say it, like tofu scallion, I want, well, I get onion toasted, tofu scallion, and it's these like mounds of cream cheese. Like if you've been to a proper New York bagel place, it's like, like picture, it's like a comically large ice cream scoop of cream cheese, and they have all the different flavors.

• 1:10:01Mayim Bialik?

  And what I really appreciate is the art of the bagel store. They scoop it from the back so that it always stays perfectly formed in the front. It's always perfect. They just carve it out in the back, so- Um, I go to a place where they have that and I usually like it with a little orange juice. I like a lot of pulp. Now, these are things that my gut is not supposed to eat. We are not supposed to have gluten. We are not supposed to have like acid, which is really what orange juice is. It's like battery acid that you pour down your gullet. But there's something about that combination of flavors and I like the bagel. I don't want a bag. Don't give me a bag. I want it in the tin foil, which is also carcinogenic and I want to hold it in my, in my hand.

• 1:10:45Mayim Bialik?

  And usually you gotta wear gloves because it's so cold. Um, and then I have the juice. I, I have a, my favorite coat that I wear in New York. It's probably why I take this coat. You can stand the juice up in the pocket. Cause the fabric.

• 1:10:59Jonathan Cohen?

  Juice coat.

• 1:11:01Mayim Bialik?

  It's a James first coat that I've had for a very long time and it's very cozy. And it's big so I can layer under it. Cause I don't love a, I got a whole thing. I don't love a bulky coat, but I like to be cozy underneath and then this coat insulates. But the pockets, you can like stand the juice up. So I got the bagel in this hand with the mitten and then the, the juice in this hand with the other mitten. Cause you can't be having to take off the mittens to maneuver and things. So I'm all tied up, ready to go. Got the juice, got the bagel. That's how the day starts.

• 1:11:33Jonathan Cohen?

  I love that we asked, what are you gonna do for the day? And you spent about half an hour describing what is actually gonna be maybe a 20 minute experience.

• 1:11:43Mayim Bialik?

  But you know, it's the, it's like, it's the people you see at the bagel store. And like, you'll see the same people-ish if you go at the same time. But like, like at like Pick a Bagel or like Essa Bagel, like there's always tourists. And you know that they're, they're so excited that they woke up in Manhattan, the greatest city in the world, and they're just ready for their morning bagel experience. Like everybody's yelling and there's like, you know, things are burning and spilling and dogs barking. And there's like a cop harassing a homeless person outside. And it's just like the perkiest Swedish people you can imagine, like fresh out the salon shit. They look perfect.

• 1:12:23Jonathan Cohen?

  James Purse representative, if you're listening, we have a campaign, the juice jacket, the juice coat.

• 1:12:30Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, and you gotta, you gotta stup some napkins underneath the juice so that it's at the right level in your pocket.

• 1:12:37Jonathan Cohen?

  Okay, we went to Toronto once, it was the middle of winter, you brought a paper thin coat, you're like, this will work, right? You had no winter attire whatsoever. I think you were slowly freezing to death. You weren't able to go outside, you had no boots.

• 1:12:56Mayim Bialik?

  You know what? You're not always the best preparer of information. There's a lot I didn't know about what I was walking into when we went on that trip. So, yeah, you could have maybe been a little bit more explicit about a lot of things about what was gonna happen.

• 1:13:13Jonathan Cohen?

  My, we're going to Canada in the winter. I hid, I hid that from you. That's my fault.

• 1:13:21Mayim Bialik?

  No, I'm not laughing.

• 1:13:22Jonathan Cohen?

  Sorry.

• 1:13:22Mayim Bialik?

  You're laughing. I'm not laughing.

• 1:13:25Jonathan Cohen?

  Let's get back to your day, though.

• 1:13:26Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, yeah. So we got our bagel.

• 1:13:28Jonathan Cohen?

  You have a stomach ache, you've managed not to spill juice on your coat.

• 1:13:32Mayim Bialik?

  Hopefully.

• 1:13:32Jonathan Cohen?

  What do you do next?

• 1:13:33Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, so, um, I, it depends which bagel place I go to. If I go to one midtown, then I can go to Central Park. There's, there's not a time of the year you don't go to Central Park. So, um, if it's cold, I walk. I keep walking. And, you know, my goal with Central Park is to keep taking paths that don't lead me to a major, you know, like thoroughfare through the park. So I know most areas of the park and I know where to go and where not to go. But sometimes like I'll surprise myself and I'll be like, oh my gosh, I'm at the boat lake. I didn't realize it. Or I'll find like a nook or a cranny where like, just like a part of the park that I didn't remember or didn't realize. Then there's

• 1:14:14Mayim Bialik?

  like that part, um, near Womack Rink with these like bridges that were in some Nicole Kidman movie, I remember, some scary movie. And it always makes me feel like I'm in that movie because there are these like low bridges that you go under. Um, but that's just like a magical park for me. Um, I, I like the Upper West Side of it. I like the midtown part.

• 1:14:33Jonathan Cohen?

  That's three and a half hours, four hours.

• 1:14:35Mayim Bialik?

  No, not even. No, I, sorry. I didn't mean to keep waxing poetic about Central Park. Uh, no, that's like, that's like an hour. It's like an hour experience in Central Park. But sometimes, yeah, you'll see like, um, dancing performers or like sometimes there's a magician. So like, I want to watch that. Um.

• 1:14:51Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, really, I'm thinking about where I'm gonna have lunch. It's kind of how I plan my days in Manhattan.

• 1:14:57Mayim Bialik?

  I do like museums. There used to be a fantastic Gulliver's Gate miniature museum that unfortunately closed. It was in the theater district. So I really like that museum. I do often like to go to the Jewish Museum, which is in the hundreds, 103. I can't remember. So, yeah, I like a museum. I do like to see, you know, usually family. And there's just like food places that I like to go. Like, I like to get a vegan donut. There's a place in Brooklyn that has really good vegan donuts. Also, things I shouldn't eat. Usually, I'll go to Chinatown.

• 1:15:34Jonathan Cohen?

  You're going to Brooklyn from Manhattan?

• 1:15:36Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, I go all the way to Brooklyn from Manhattan.

• 1:15:39Jonathan Cohen?

  Just for the donut?

• 1:15:40Mayim Bialik?

  Just for the donut. Oh, I've done that. It's just a couple stops into Brooklyn. So you do the donut. But I love being on the subway. I love being on the subway. I like people watching. I like all the things.

• 1:15:51Jonathan Cohen?

  Do you get recognized when you're on the subway in New York?

• 1:15:53Mayim Bialik?

  No, people don't give a shit. It's the best thing. No, people don't care. They're busy with their lives and doing their things and, you know, trying to defend themselves from the elements of a vast variety. What's another thing I like to do? Yeah, mostly about the food that I'd like to eat there.

• 1:16:11Mayim Bialik?

  I'm trying to think. Yeah, I mean, if it's spring, I'll spend more time in Central Park. But, yeah, those are kind of, those are a little bit the highlights. Like, I do like Chinatown. I really like walking around Chinatown. I like to just walk around and see all the, you know, like, there's all sorts of, like, fish that I don't eat, but there's all sorts of, like, vegetables and spices and fruits and things that I don't normally see. And I really like that there's parts of New York and other cities as well where you really feel like you're in a different entire culture. And I like that. I like seeing people, you know, speaking to each other in a language I don't understand and just getting to see a whole world that's operating. So I really like Chinatown.

• 1:16:53Mayim Bialik?

  And, like, I like SoHo, but I like looking around shops. Like, there's really good stretches of areas to walk around. But, yeah, those are kind of the highlights.

• 1:17:02Jonathan Cohen?

  Last time I was in Manhattan for a couple of days, which was... I don't know, like 2016 or so. I did the museums. It was also a little cold. Did Central Park. I don't remember where I ate, which is, you know, clearly a big red flag for you.

• 1:17:20Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, well, there is, there is, um, there's a bakery that's all gluten free, um, which is dynamite. Uh, I believe I want to say West End, something like that, meaning it's on the West End. Um, and that's a very exciting place and they get a huge line of people because everyone in Manhattan is gluten free.

• 1:17:38Jonathan Cohen?

  In 2000, I had a day to myself. I was 19 years old. I flew into, um, New York. And the place I was staying was staying with family and they were not around until this evening, in, in the evening. So I had the whole day to kill and I ended up in some underground ping pong club. Playing ping pong with a bunch of old men who were fantastic ping pong players and it was a lot of fun. Let's touch on one other thing that came up in this episode, which is. Maybe we change your answer for who are you most competitive with?

• 1:18:15Mayim Bialik?

  I think we just eliminate the question from the rapid fire.

• 1:18:19Jonathan Cohen?

  From our lives. We don't have to be competitive.

• 1:18:21Mayim Bialik?

  I don't even know what that word means. It's like I'm hearing.

• 1:18:26Jonathan Cohen?

  Everyone has their own destiny. Everyone has their own path. We're all doing the best we can.

• 1:18:31Mayim Bialik?

  You know who I'm competitive with? I'm competitive with the 80 year old lady in my ballet class last night.

• 1:18:38Mayim Bialik?

  Super competitive with her. Like, why is her turnout so good?

• 1:18:41Jonathan Cohen?

  I feel like that's a good focus for you.

• 1:18:43Mayim Bialik?

  There's not someone that I'm not competitive with.

• 1:18:46Jonathan Cohen?

  The less we are competitive, the more joy we will have in our own experience.

• 1:18:51Mayim Bialik?

  Julia Stiles wants you to be joyful.

• 1:18:53Jonathan Cohen?

  You can be joyful too.

• 1:18:55Mayim Bialik?

  From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. See you next time.