Fastest Ironman on North American Soil & What it Takes to Win Ironman Zurich 7 Years In a Row

Ronnie Schildknecht may not be a household name. But he should be. Why? because nobody in history has logged a faster Ironman on the soil of this continent faster than Ronnie. This is a guy who won Ironman Florida in 2011 in 7 hours and 59 minutes. An Ironman in under 8 hours! Just how fast is that? After swimming 2.4 miles in the ocean in 51 minutes, imagine getting on your bike and riding 112 miles at an average pace of almost 26mph for 4 hours and 19 minutes straight. Then imagine getting off your bike and running a steady 6 minute to 6:15 pace to clock a blazing 2:43 marathon. Not enough for you? When Ronnie won Ironman Zurich this summer, he became the only athlete to have won a single Ironman race seven years in a row consecutively. Beyond his incomprehensible athletic achievements, Ronnie is a man of soft-spoken disposition and considerate nature. A guy more comfortable letting others bask in the limelight while allowing his race results speak on his behalf. Refreshing. What I found most compelling is how Ronnie's training has evolved over the last few years to a protocol that dispenses with the knee-jerk conventional wisdom of high volume and places more emphasis on high intensity quality work; recovery; mental preparation & visualization; and a protracted taper beyond his previous comfort zone. Ronnie's evolution into the elite athlete he is today has required developing a greater understanding of — and confidence in — what specifically works for him — irrespective of the opinions of others, recommended training protocols, or the flavor of the month diet or training plan. What works for him. Powerful. And simple. Yet something that nonetheless can be so elusive and difficult to embrace. For Ronnie, it didn't come easy at first — his sub-par Kona performances since his blazing 4th place in 2008 attributable to overtraining and not listening to what his body was telling him. Why? Because trusting one's instincts can prove incredibly difficult without extreme personal confidence and practiced mental discipline. A strong internal compass capable of muting the outside world. Healthy boundaries. And a profound sense of self. Whether you are an athlete yourself or just a fan, Ronnie's message of personal responsibility and self-awareness is powerful — principles that transcend sport — applicable to life wherever you find yourself. And I have no doubt that after listening to this interview, like me you'll be a Ronnie fan, ready to cheer him on to Ironman victory in Kona. I hope you enjoy the show! Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:04Rich Roll?

  Welcome to episode 52 of the Rich Roll Podcast with professional Ironman athlete Ronnie Shiltconnect.

• 1:24Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. I am Rich Roll. This is the Rich Roll Podcast. If you're new to the show, what do we do here? Well, on a weekly basis, sometimes twice a week, I'm working towards twice a week, I bring to you the best and the brightest in health and fitness and wellness, paradigm-busting minds and forward thinkers on the cutting edge of what's new to bring you the straight truth on how you can maximize your long-term, sustainable wellness and fitness. So, I've had doctors on the show, nutritionists, health experts, world-class athletes, entrepreneurs, and our subjects range from the nitty-gritty, geeking out on nutrition, the ins and outs of what's healthy and what's not.

• 2:10Rich Roll?

  Training techniques for athletes ranging from Ironman athletes and marathoners and ultra runners to MMA fighters and all different kinds of people, volleyball players. I try to bring to you a wide spectrum of people, not always people I always agree with, but all different kinds of personalities and perspectives, so that I can give you one thing, which is a tremendous amount of information from which you can draw what works for you, what doesn't, and you can take what resonates with you, incorporate it into your life to improve your life, improve your health, improve your nutrition, improve your diet, improve your fitness, so that you can tap into, unlock and unleash your best, most

• 2:55Rich Roll?

  authentic self. Who am I? I am a ultra-distance triathlete turned podcaster. A little bit more podcasting lately and public speaking than training, so I'm gonna have to find some balance with that. Been traveling a lot, been on the road quite a bit, doing public speaking engagements, and I love it. I'm getting ready to go out on the road again, and it's my favorite thing to do, to go out and connect with people and talk about my favorite subject, which is plant-based nutrition, athletic performance, and repairing our health. I'm also a bestselling author. I wrote a book called Finding Ultra.

• 3:35Rich Roll?

  I'm a plant-based nutrition advocate, a lifestyle entrepreneur, a husband, and a father of four. And that's if you guys are new. For the long-time listeners, thanks for joining us again. This has been an incredible journey and one I'm enjoying walking more than you can imagine. We appreciate all the support out there. If you've been enjoying the show, a couple things that would be great to help us out that are really simple on your end, go to the iTunes page and leave us a nice comment about what's up. It helps with the iTunes rankings and helps spread the word. And on the spread the word tip... Tell a friend. It's because of you guys that we have the audience that we have.

• 4:17Rich Roll?

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• 4:58Rich Roll?

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• 5:39Rich Roll?

  more plants. Maybe you're a long-term vegan, but you're looking to dial up the quality of your diet on a daily basis. Well, a good way to do that is to check out our Plant-Based Nutrition online course at mindbodygreen.com. Three and a half hours of online streaming video content. Each video is about five to 10 minutes long on a specific, particular subject related to plant-based nutrition. We cover everything from how to stock your kitchen, what to get at the grocery store, how to handle travel, airports, how to talk to your kids about eating healthy, how to eat in restaurants, what kind of nutrients you should be thinking about getting more of in your

• 6:22Rich Roll?

  Diet, essentially everything that I could think of that comes up when people ask me, "How do you do this? What do you do?" We tried to address all of that and I'm really proud of the product that we put out there. And if you go to MindBodyGreen.com, it's right there on the homepage. You can watch a few sneak preview clips of what it's all about. And yeah, check it out. It also has an online community where you can ask questions. We chime in, the community chimes in. The whole idea is that we're all there to support each other and help us get healthier by eating more plants wherever you are on that spectrum from, like I said, hardcore, long-term vegan to somebody who's completely new to this

• 7:04Rich Roll?

  and really just doesn't know where to start. So that's cool. You can also donate to the show. We have a donate button. You can throw us a few bucks on a one-time basis, a weekly basis, a monthly basis. We really, really appreciate that. We understand that this is your hard-earned money. You have a choice about where to spend it. And the fact that anyone would send us money is really kind of amazing. And we appreciate everybody who has done that. It means a lot to us. I'm going to be in DC this weekend, September 28th, speaking at the DC Veg Fest. So if you're in the DC area, please come by, come and check it out. I'm going to give an hour talk and then I'm going to sign books and meet people. And I'm going to have some of those Plant Power t-shirts ready to sell you guys. Not a ton, but I'm bringing some. So it's going to be a first come, first served

• 7:48Rich Roll?

  thing. And on the t-shirt tip, we are getting our website configured. And we're going to be offering a couple of different t-shirt designs very, very soon, probably sometime in the next two weeks. Just the stuff takes time. We have the t-shirts in stock, but we just have to configure all of the web stuff so that all of that kind of stuff works. And so if people are buying something, it actually gets shipped properly and on time and all that kind of good stuff. We have a few products too. If you go to RichRoll.com, we have a vitamin B12 supplement. I have an athletic recovery post-workout supplement. We have our cookbook, Jive Seed, 77 pages of awesome recipes, the downloadable PDF, really simple, family-friendly fare that is delicious.

• 8:32Rich Roll?

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• 9:17Rich Roll?

  It's a humming technique and it's a lot of fun. So, anyway, that's that. I want to get into the show. Ronnie is my guest today. Ronnie Schilk Connect, I believe is how you pronounce it properly. I was always saying Schilk Connect, but I think I had it wrong. He corrected me at the end of the interview. Ronnie is a guy who is not necessarily a household name as a professional athlete, but he's incredibly accomplished. He's a Swiss professional triathlete who had quite an astounding sort of ascension in the sport in a very short period of time. He went from being a guy who was a tennis player, a fairly accomplished tennis player,

• 9:58Rich Roll?

  and a guy who had kind of messed about playing soccer and hockey and found his way into triathlon. And it's funny because most professional triathletes have a background in swimming or track and field or cross country or maybe even bicycle racing. And he came at it from a completely different sort of sport background and took to it like a fish to water. And he's had some amazing results. He's one of the most accomplished athletes in professional triathlon. And he is the only Ironman athlete who has ever won one Ironman race in seven consecutive attempts. So, he's won Ironman Switzerland seven years in a row.

• 10:43Rich Roll?

  No other professional. athlete, Ironman athlete, has ever won one race seven years in a row consecutively. So that's quite an extraordinary accomplishment. So in Switzerland, you know, everybody knows who this guy is. He's a big deal there. He lives outside Zurich and this Ironman Switzerland course is essentially his backyard course and he's owned it. He's owned it like nobody's business for the better part of the last decade. He just won it for the seventh time this past year. He also won Ironman South Africa this year. So he's won two Ironmans this year. And his top finish at Kona, the Ironman World Championships, was fourth in 2008. Since that year, he's had challenges trying to replicate that performance or take

• 11:28Rich Roll?

  it to the next level. And what's interesting as he goes into the Ironman World Championships in Kona this year, 2013, is his changing perspective, his evolving perspective on training and how he's preparing for this race and what has worked for him in the past, what hasn't, and what he's learned and what he's trying to do this year to take his game to a whole new level on the biggest stage in triathlon, which is the Ironman Kona World Championships. So it's fascinating for people who are endurance athletes or any kind of athletes to kind of tap into his brain and figure out what makes him tick and what's working for him in a training, in a training context was very interesting to me and I

• 12:10Rich Roll?

  think you'll find it really interesting. And I think the takeaway message out of the whole thing is just how important it is to take ownership of what you're doing, to make decisions for yourself, to learn what makes your body tick, what works for you and what doesn't, and to be an independent thinker about that. To not just adopt somebody else's program or do what somebody else says you should do, but to learn how to listen to yourself, to finally tune into what makes your body tick and to trust in that. And that's kind of been his evolution. And it's really a powerful message and one that I think has a lot of value. So without further ado, let's just get into it, man. I really,

• 12:50Rich Roll?

  really enjoyed sitting down with Ronnie. He's a very thoughtful, sort of gentle, quiet guy who's very introspective. He's not a guy who's trying to grab the limelight or be sensational or sort of, I don't know. He's not a guy who is trying to

• 13:11Rich Roll?

  Grab the spotlight, I suppose. I think he's much more, at least my sense is, he's much more comfortable letting his performance and his results speak for himself. So it was a treat that he would take the time to sit down and have this really fascinating conversation with me.

• 13:34Rich Roll?

  Without further ado, let's just get into it. Ladies and gentlemen, Ronnie, Schult connect. Schult connect. Schult connect? Schult connect? Schult, Schult connect. Anyway, enjoy.

• 13:56Rich Roll?

  So the thing that's funny is that usually when I do this, I don't want to like, kind of talk to the person ahead of time very much because then like we talk about everything and then we get on the podcast and then there's nothing left to talk about or you have to retread or whatever. But we just had like a two hour lunch.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:13Rich Roll?

  So we're gonna have to go over it all again. Are you up for it?

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I'm up for it, of course.

• 14:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, man. Well, thank you for taking the time.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 14:23Rich Roll?

  You're a busy guy and you've got a lot on your mind right now, getting ready for Kona.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not too busy because the tapering starts soon.

• 14:30Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  It's good.

• 14:32Rich Roll?

  Well, good. So I will say to myself that I'm doing a good thing for you because I'm forcing you to sit down and rest.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that was never a problem. It's not a problem for me. It's good.

• 14:42Rich Roll?

  How's the training going?

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Training is going really well. I mean, it has been going well all year. So I'm really hopeful, but it's like always in racing. It's the day. On the day you need to perform. It doesn't matter what you did before. It's just that day. That's the sport a little bit.

• 15:02Rich Roll?

  Right. Instead, so you finish the race, you don't do so good and you go, yeah, but you should have seen me when I was training.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:07Rich Roll?

  Two weeks ago.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 15:08Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  And that's what I learned most from these, from these sports where you have to perform in one day because that's, I think, which is unusual to have as a job to be, to have to perform on three days. You get... And that's that's the hard part, but also the nice part because I'm responsible for myself. I can decide when I go train, when I go rest. And then, of course, the pressure gets up, up, up for the race. And I'm responsible for it and I have to to show the results. But it's just another way, uh, yeah, maybe when you go every day to daytime job every day. It's different. You have to perform as well every day, but maybe I have another climax like.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  It's like really high pressure because it's only three days a year.

• 15:56Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  And like you said, you can be so good three, four days before and then on the day you're not. And then you get measured on the performance.

• 16:05Rich Roll?

  Right. And not all of those things you have control over. You have you have control over certain things, but there are certain things that are out of your control, right?

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Exactly. I mean, you have experience, you try to do, you know what worked, but every week is different. I mean, every day is different. It's you feel different. You have maybe you do things which you you which worked a few years before. Uh, for yeah, other races, but it's always different. Your body is in another state of mind, your mind is in another state of mind. So. So, yeah, you you have, you can control a few things, but not all.

• 16:42Rich Roll?

  I think that you said, I read somewhere where you said, an Ironman is like a life and within that day you live a life and there's the ups and the downs and the tiny victories and upsets and setbacks and all of that packed into that one experience of

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:01Rich Roll?

  For for you, eight hours, for some people, twenty hours, but but nonetheless, uh, you know, the same roller coaster ride, right?

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Yes, uh, that's that's true. It's, uh, every Ironman I remember as a short life period. It's like a short life. You have the ups and downs, but the good thing is mostly you have a happy end.

• 17:22Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  I mean, mostly, uh, because and that's makes you proud, all proud. That's what makes you proud. You go through the highs and lows. It's like in life, you you have to go through it, you know? And in life, it never ends. An Ironman is starts and it ends.

• 17:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  So you have like, you have this in the pocket. That's nice, but also in life, you set goals, of course, and then you have it in the pocket, but it's always goes on and on. And in racing, it's the same.

• 17:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  But, uh. Yeah, it's just very intense eight, nine hours that that Ironman racing is just. Yeah, it's it's like a little journey. Yeah.

• 17:58Rich Roll?

  For sure. And I would say that you're having a pretty bang up year this year.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:03Rich Roll?

  You won Ironman South Africa.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:06Rich Roll?

  And that was in April. What part, what part of the year was that?

• 18:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was in.

• 18:10Rich Roll?

  In the spring, right?

• 18:11Speaker 01

  It was in April.

• 18:12Rich Roll?

  And then you followed it up with your seventh consecutive Ironman Switzerland win, right?

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:18Rich Roll?

  So I'm gonna, before we do the interview, I do, I'll record like an intro. So everybody understands who you are. People might not have heard of you, but so they'll already know all that part. But just to kind of get into that a little bit, I mean, you're the first person to win one Ironman race on seven consecutive years, right?

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:37Rich Roll?

  So incredible. And your back, your backyard course, essentially, right? Your hometown.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, indeed. When I started this, I mean, I never thought that that would happen, but I heard that many people say on, on other things like, and then you do it. And well, it's unbelievable. If I look back right now, maybe it's not so real, but maybe in a few years when I stop.

• 19:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  With my career.

• 19:04Rich Roll?

  Wow, I actually did that.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:06Rich Roll?

  And you come from a really sort of unique place in terms of your evolution as an athlete and as a triathlete. I mean, you hear, it's very common for people who get into triathlon, who were cross country runners, or track and field runners, or swimmers, or what have you. And you, but your background was tennis, soccer, and then I guess a little bit of ice hockey in there, but really tennis, right? That was your main sport growing up as a kid?

• 19:31Speaker 01

  I grew up as a kid playing soccer and tennis, both. And then of when I was nine, 10, I had to decide for one, because I didn't have the time to do both, because I wanted to either, well, in my dream, become a soccer star or a pro, well, not a pro, star there when I, when you're young, or tennis. And then I decided for tennis.

• 19:52Rich Roll?

  But just as a kid growing up in Switzerland, like who are, I mean, my only context is America, where it's all about basketball and football. So as a child growing up in Switzerland, who are the sports idols that the kids are kind of idolizing? Is it soccer players and tennis players? Is that?

• 20:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. You know, I was. What the thing was, my parents, they played tennis, so I became, I was on the court when I was three years old, not playing tennis, but because my mom played, so I was always around tennis. So, and tennis by that time was a really popular sport. It was like what is now golf, probably. Tennis was for, yeah, was, was really the sport growing a lot. And my idols were like Stefan Edberg. He was a Swedish guy, always played against Boris Becker. Also, I liked both, but then my mom said, you know, you have to be Stefan Edberg fan, because I, I didn't know which one I should decide.

• 20:50Rich Roll?

  Why? What was the rationale behind that? I mean, Becker was really the guy.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, but Stefan Edberg was so calm, always composed, the nicest guy on the court. Just a surf and volley player, the best in the world. So, so I said, yeah, you're right, he's, he's so, how do you say, sympathetic?

• 21:12Rich Roll?

  Simpatiko?

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, very, like, and, yeah, and, and I was always, yeah, I was young, so I was like, Becker is, it was cool.

• 21:21Rich Roll?

  Right. He was like a movie star at the time. I mean, in Germany, he was enormous.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, Boris Becker with his win in Wimbledon when he was seventeen. And, but yeah, then I, somehow, I don't know, she didn't say you have, but she was like, Stefan Edberg is a, is a great guy. And then I was like, oh, yeah, actually, I like Stefan Edberg.

• 21:42Rich Roll?

  So you have like pictures of him on your wall in your bedroom and stuff like that?

• 21:46Speaker 01

  I don't remember, to be honest, but, yeah, maybe one or two.

• 21:52Rich Roll?

  So, but anyway, he's your guy, right?

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:54Rich Roll?

  So you start playing tennis and you were pretty good, right? Nationally ranked in Switzerland?

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was, I was good as a junior. I mean, you cannot tell too much when you're good as a junior, because it means not much. But, yeah, I, I, I played, I played seriously, I played every day. I, I was in a team, like, I, I was coached by a former good Swiss player,

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Stadler is his name and he once was in the final of Stad, that's a Swiss tournament. Uh, and yeah, he was my coach and uh, yeah, I was a big, a good, no, not a big, a good talent with a good touch. But I was missing a little bit the, the mental side.

• 22:37Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Of it.

• 22:38Rich Roll?

  So talk about your, your epic match with Federer.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was, I mean.

• 22:43Rich Roll?

  How old were you?

• 22:43Speaker 01

  I was, I was probably fourteen, no, I was fifteen, he was probably thirteen. A little younger. Well, it was not so epic because I didn't know who is Federer.

• 22:53Rich Roll?

  Right, well, at the time, right, only in retrospect.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  He was just, yeah, in retrospect, six, four, six, four, I always, it's just a good gag, you know, it's good fun to say like, I played Roger Federer and I actually meet him, I met him a few years ago. Just a few days before Ironman Switzerland. And then I told him, hey, we played and yeah, it was really funny.

• 23:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, did he remember?

• 23:15Speaker 01

  He didn't.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  He meets too many guys.

• 23:19Rich Roll?

  Did he know who you, I mean, what was the context in which you were meeting him though? Did he know you were this great Ironman champion or?

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, he went, actually, it was, it was funny.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  A former manager of, of him, a girl, she was a tennis player as well, but she was doing Ironman. So she said, hey, I have that Mercedes bike which Roger won, a Mercedes bike.

• 23:43Rich Roll?

  A Mercedes bicycle?

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, bicycle. They did actually a bike and we need to come to the, to the bike shop. So can you be there just to say hi? And I said, sure, I can. And then he really showed up and with the Mercedes, with the, with the Mercedes bicycle. And uh, yeah, I, I think he never, never going to use it, but they had to adjust some gears, it was.

• 24:06Rich Roll?

  It's like a ten speed bike, like a, like a carbon framed bike with the Mercedes logo on it or what?

• 24:12Speaker 01

  I don't remember the bike so much, to be honest, but not, not a really good one. But then we met and we chat and, and he was aware of it, well, because I said, oh yeah, I'm racing on the weekend and, and then I won and. Yeah, I think he was aware of it.

• 24:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  A few years later, I saw him again when he was playing tennis. And yeah, on the court. I was by accident in winter time. I went on the court with a friend as well. And who's there playing? Roger Federer.

• 24:43Rich Roll?

  Uh huh, just hitting balls like?

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Yes, hitting balls just before a tournament. And I was just by accident going there. I haven't played for a long time. And I just went there with my body to play a little bit. And he was, hi Ronnie, how was Hawaii? That's his first, I was embarrassed. So it was so funny that he still remembered, oh, I saw you in Zurich and you won there. And now you did Hawaii and you told me, oh, you wanna go good in Hawaii. But I was like, oh, no, I sucked.

• 25:12Rich Roll?

  It wasn't a good year, yeah.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  So it was just interesting.

• 25:16Rich Roll?

  Well, you're gonna have to redeem yourself in Hawaii this year. So when you run into him next, you can.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  I hope so, yeah. I mean, Hawaii is a very special, special place, special race.

• 25:28Rich Roll?

  I wanna get into that in a minute, but I wanna go back to something you said a minute ago, which was that you felt like you were good technically as a tennis player, but that you were lacking the mental game.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:38Rich Roll?

  So what do you mean by that? Like, what do you think wasn't, you didn't have the focus or?

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Very, maybe too much, not mature enough, angry when things didn't go my way. Cracking rackets all the time.

• 25:58Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Screaming.

• 25:59Rich Roll?

  What were you so angry about?

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Oh, just not.

• 26:01Rich Roll?

  Just competitive?

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Just competitive, not playing how I wanted to. Just didn't have the composure maybe. And like I said, in training, I was always very good in training because no pressure. But in the tennis matches, when it counts, I couldn't play what I can.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Normally can, but like I said, the same like you can training and feel good and then in the race you don't perform.

• 26:26Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  And that was similar in tennis.

• 26:30Rich Roll?

  Like being able to have the composure to perform the way you do in training when it matters most, when the pressure is on.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Yes, I couldn't handle that, not at all.

• 26:40Rich Roll?

  But you seem to have been able to master that in a new way, in a new sport.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:45Rich Roll?

  Right, so what do you think the evolution of maturing mentally has been for you as an athlete?

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, I think it helped me because this experience, I knew that this is not the way you're gonna be successful, you know, this was a bad, not a bad, it was one, I didn't regret it, that's how I was, I was young, I think a lot of young tennis player are like this, Roger was like that, look at him now or look at him the last 10 years, if you looked at him about when he was 12, he was throwing around rackets and stuff, so, but it's a part of your life and you learn from it and so yeah, in Ironman it's a strength of mine.

• 27:27Rich Roll?

  Right, yeah, so it's interesting, you took something that was your Achilles heel or your weakness in tennis and made that your strength.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:33Rich Roll?

  In your new sport, I like that, so, so let's get into how triathlon began, so you're pursuing tennis and you take it to this certain level, but then you realize, well, I'm not gonna exceed this certain glass ceiling that I'm bumping up against here.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, I, you know, I got always the support from my parents, but when you're young, 15, 16, and your parents driving around with the car to these tournaments and then I always felt like I need to win for them, I wanted to win too, but I wanted to make them proud and I was always a little, yeah, like I couldn't play what I wanted and that drove me from the sport because, and then when I lost, my parents were not so happy about it and I didn't like the feeling after the matches.

• 28:20Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Going back in the car, quiet, so.

• 28:23Rich Roll?

  Like tennis was their thing, right? So you feel like they were projecting expectations on you or?

• 28:28Speaker 01

  They, not that they projected there, but they were just one, they just wanted the best for me. And they did, they expressed it maybe in a wrong way because they were more disappointed, maybe as disappointed or even more than I was.

• 28:42Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  And I, and I wanted to be good for them. And so, yeah, I just couldn't play what I wanted. And that, that was not fun anymore than, you know, it was, and I was still young. So I was not ready for it, for that, I guess. It was not meant to be.

• 29:03Rich Roll?

  Do you ever feel like if you started later or you had the mental discipline that you have now, when you were playing, that you could have been some, you know, been something different than what you were? Or you could have pursued that to a, to a, to a different level?

• 29:21Rich Roll?

  Or you not think about it?

• 29:22Speaker 01

  I don't know how, I never, I don't, sometimes I think when I have the mental game, the mental game I have now, if I would have had it there, I would have made it further. But I think there's many who had the same talent as I, and Roger is one of, yeah, of a, of a, of a, of a million, I don't know, billion, million. So, so I think even when I had it, I didn't know. We will never know, but of course I would have made it further. But I think not enough to be in the top hundred in the world. I don't think so.

• 30:05Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  But we will never know, but.

• 30:08Rich Roll?

  So when, so when does triathlon start finding its way into your life?

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Very funny how it came. I did a language stay in San Diego, just for language. And I met these two Brazilian guys. One was Chuliano Terrell, he's now, he's now a coach. He's actually a friend, a coach, also helping me with, yeah, with a lot here in training now for Diamond. Kona, and then Fabio Carvalho, he's still a Nike athlete, trying to qualify for, for, for, for Rio. And I met these guys and. They were so chilled and good. I loved the lifestyle they they had. They were working in a coffee shop part time and the rest they were doing triathlon.

• 30:55Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  And I was like, this is so cool because I came from tennis and ice hockey. And this lifestyle and they were so fit and I really admired that. So.

• 31:07Rich Roll?

  How old were you?

• 31:08Speaker 01

  I was, I think I was, um, what age you have to be to drink alcohol?

• 31:15Rich Roll?

  Twenty one.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  So I I just turned twenty one.

• 31:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I like that. That's how you're remembering it. You're like, I had some good times in San Diego.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, actually, yeah, I think I just turned twenty one. So I remember that one. Yeah. So then I there, I I don't know, I got hooked and I I bought my first bike at Nitro. I bought a Cannondale, a a a yellow Cannondale, very bright.

• 31:40Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  And.

• 31:41Rich Roll?

  How long were you supposed to stay in San Diego?

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Three months.

• 31:44Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  I.

• 31:46Rich Roll?

  So you meet these guys and you're like, I like, I'm gonna get a bike.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:49Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Um, I was before I met the guy in Switzerland who did triathlon because I trained a little bit. And I was already, I knew what triathlon was.

• 31:59Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  But I got really hooked when I met these guys and thought, this is, these are cool guys, nice guys and good, good lifestyle. I I like it. And and I I had school from nine to twelve for one. And always before I went to the gym and in downtown San Diego, actually, I was and on top, they had a swimming pool. So I went swimming there and then I went to school and in the afternoon I went for a ride.

• 32:26Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  And that's how it started, yeah.

• 32:27Rich Roll?

  So was it one of those things where from your first pedal stroke, you showed like some aptitude for this? Or how did it, you know, I mean, when you were beginning, you were thinking, I'm gonna race this and turn this into something? Or I'm just having fun?

• 32:41Speaker 01

  I it was just having fun, I think. It was more, of course, of course, I'm a competitive person and I thought of.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Racing, but not professional or anything because I just started then I loved it. I was, I can remember I just, I couldn't swim. I was, I was not a swimmer, you know, I never swam really. So I just had fun and I went running and.

• 33:06Rich Roll?

  So how are you, hold on a second. So if you're in downtown San Diego, that's where you're living and studying and stuff?

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:13Rich Roll?

  So how are you like meeting these guys that are way up in North County, like hanging out around Nitro?

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, they had, I had a car, a little car and I drove up there all the time.

• 33:23Rich Roll?

  Gotcha.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  And I drove up there with my bike. I bought it and then I went riding with them.

• 33:27Rich Roll?

  You go there.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's how it was. And then I even met Jürgen Sack. He was by the time, he was the man. I mean, then, yeah, so he was preparing for Hawaii, but he had an accident that year. So he couldn't. And actually that year I, I flew to Hawaii, like in, in that language stay. I, I flew to Hawaii to watch the race.

• 33:51Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  Kona. Yeah.

• 33:52Rich Roll?

  Cool.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Because that guy I met in Switzerland, he was a triathlete and he said, hey, if you're in San Diego there, let's, let's go and have, have a look in Kona.

• 34:03Rich Roll?

  Right. So this has got to be what, like 2000?

• 34:06Speaker 01

  2000.

• 34:06Rich Roll?

  2000, right?

• 34:07Speaker 01

  2000.

• 34:08Rich Roll?

  And for people that are listening who maybe don't know that much about triathlon, you have to understand that San Diego and particularly North County around Del Mar and Encinitas in this area was a real and continues to be one of the hotbeds of the sport and people would come from all over the world, the professionals to train in this area, particularly that kind of Encinitas area. And a lot of Germans, so many, so many sort of Germans and I don't know how many Swiss were there, but enough Germans, enough professional Ironman, triathlete Germans were living and training there that the Saturday morning ride, the loop, the sort of famous loop, the group ride every Saturday morning was called the German ride or the German loop, right?

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't even remember that, but. I was not going on these rides because I was just into the triathlon.

• 34:59Rich Roll?

  So you just fell, you were kind of fell into this right place, right time and interested?

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was just, I saw, then I went watching Kona and I was so amazed because it was blowing, it was humid, it was hot. And that year in 2000, it was blowing some guys off the Queen K. There you ride down the Queen K on the big island and somewhere really almost blowing off.

• 35:26Rich Roll?

  Right, like coming down from Javi?

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Yes, actually in Waikoloa, it's where helicopters are. And it was unbelievable and I was just amazed. I couldn't imagine ever doing this. But I was amazed on, actually they looked so fit, they looked healthy. They, it's all I, actually I thought that's what I want to be. It was about healthy, fun. And while the suffering, I didn't see that much in that moment.

• 35:54Rich Roll?

  You would soon learn more about that.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, soon.

• 35:57Rich Roll?

  So you return from that trip and you know, do you start making changes in your life? Like how does this start to happen for you?

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember I started, I started doing triathlon. Like of course we have some cold winters when I came back, I came back, I think in January.

• 36:15Rich Roll?

  So return to where you live, so living outside Zurich at the time?

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, living outside Zurich in January, still wintertime. But I mean, you can always go in the gym. But as soon as it got summer, I started my, I started training and I did my first competitions. Yeah.

• 36:36Rich Roll?

  And so is it one of those things where you won your first race?

• 36:40Speaker 01

  I think I won my first race, maybe it was a really short one already in 2001. Yes.

• 36:49Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Because in 2002, I already did my first Ironman.

• 36:53Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:54Rich Roll?

  So literally two years from seeing this for the first time.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:57Rich Roll?

  You're, you're, you're straight off into Ironman.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:00Rich Roll?

  And when you were, when you went back to Zurich, are you working then? Or are you in school still? Or?

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Yes, I was doing, uh, in, in Europe, you do apprenticeship at the insurance company.

• 37:09Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  So I, I still worked for, for an insurance company by then. And, uh, yeah, I mean, I was not professional or anything. I was just, yeah, doing it for fun and.

• 37:21Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. So you win your first race and then what was your first Ironman?

• 37:25Speaker 01

  It was Ironman Florida. I, sorry, it was in 2003, Ironman Florida.

• 37:30Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Uh, the first Ironman I did, um, I got eight, seventh place in eight hours 53.

• 37:37Rich Roll?

  Seventh place in your first Ironman.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah. That's unbelievable.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  It was amazing.

• 37:43Rich Roll?

  And you're 23, 24?

• 37:44Speaker 01

  23.

• 37:45Rich Roll?

  23.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was, uh.

• 37:47Rich Roll?

  And were you professional at that time? Had you turned pro or?

• 37:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I turned already pro because I, I was in the national team for duathlon.

• 37:55Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  I, I came, I, I joined the national team after I started from like, after, um, San Diego, I did my first races, duathlon and I won the under 23 championships.

• 38:07Rich Roll?

  Just like that?

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Just like that. And then I was.

• 38:09Rich Roll?

  Had you been, I mean, when you were playing tennis, were you doing endurance running or anything like that? Like, how do you attribute such a rapid, such, you know?

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:18Rich Roll?

  Crazy success right from the get go?

• 38:20Speaker 01

  The thing was I played tennis and also ice hockey.

• 38:23Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  And inline hockey. I don't know. Inline hockey is just on the roller.

• 38:29Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  And I was always known with, from, with my teammates for my awesome stamina. Because normally.

• 38:37Rich Roll?

  Getting tired.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Huh?

• 38:38Rich Roll?

  Just, you're just not getting tired.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Yes, because normally in hockey, you do like two minutes and then you go out. You, you have like, uh, four blocks. So, and I always could do doubles, you know? Like I could always stay on the ice. So they, these guys were always saying, well, you have a. Lung, I don't know what you're doing. So I was always, I knew I, I had this big engine.

• 38:59Rich Roll?

  Right. But it's surprising you didn't find yourself in like cross-country skiing or something like that. You know, that would be much more Swiss.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  Yes, I know. No, I was more into hockey and actually weight training and I was heavy. I was.

• 39:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you're a big guy.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Two hundred pounds, or yeah, I don't know, in kilo, it was about ninety-two kilo. So that's about two hundred.

• 39:20Rich Roll?

  Almost ten hundred.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Pounds.

• 39:21Rich Roll?

  Wow, that's big.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:23Rich Roll?

  Okay, what do you, what do you weigh now?

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Now I'm one seventy, one seventy.

• 39:27Rich Roll?

  One seventy. That's still pretty big.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's, that's still.

• 39:31Rich Roll?

  Professional Ironman.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I was always a bigger, bigger guy.

• 39:35Rich Roll?

  But still forty pound, you were forty pounds heavier.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:38Rich Roll?

  I can't even picture that.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it was, I mean, I went to the gym five times a week, or let's say four.

• 39:44Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Played ice hockey and not, not professionally, like I said, but just, I had fun with the team sports and the playing, yeah. So, so I never did really endurance sports, but.

• 39:58Rich Roll?

  You had this natural attitude for it.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, naturally gifted, I guess, just always, yeah.

• 40:05Rich Roll?

  And so when you did, I mean, did you lose all that weight really quickly? Like when you got seventh in that first Ironman, were you already down to one seventy or were you still doing that as a big guy? I mean, it takes years to lose all that muscle mass, right?

• 40:19Speaker 01

  I was still a big guy. I was still one ninety, I would say. It, it shed a bit, but then it stopped for a long time. And the last few pounds came off only like the last six, seven years, yeah, like. But in the beginning, I was still a big guy.

• 40:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I had also to train really differently to other guys who were in the sport longer. I couldn't take these volume stuff and the running, the, the, the impact for a big guy, you cannot run like eighty miles a week.

• 40:51Rich Roll?

  Right. We talked a lot about that at lunch, yeah, and how that's changed over the years. So, you know, why don't we just take this opportunity to talk about that now? I mean, the, the kind of conventional wisdom in Ironman or in, you know, ultra-distance endurance, Ironman distance stuff is you gotta lay a huge endurance base. You gotta put in a lot of miles, like a lot of just aerobic. You know, saddle time on the bike and a lot of long runs where you're just getting acclimated to that pounding. So you can get used to the idea of being out on a race course for nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 hours, right? Depending upon your aptitude. And that's the way most people train. And a lot of people have success with that. But I think

• 41:35Rich Roll?

  there's now some new kind of science coming into proper training and people are experimenting with different ways of doing it. And you have a really unique perspective, but I want to kind of paint the picture and how you've kind of evolved to this place from what you were doing previously to kind of what you do now.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, of course, when I came into the sport, you first look what others do. I mean, when you have no experience, you and that was always a good thing. I always listen, I love to listen. And then what I learned later was to have your own opinion. You listen and then you take the best things for out for you. Because as more experience you do yourself, you can, you know where to pick from.

• 42:27Rich Roll?

  Right. You know it's working for you. And when you start, you just, okay, tell me what to do.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  You don't know.

• 42:31Rich Roll?

  And did you have a coach from the very beginning?

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Not really. I was in the national team. So I went to training camp with the national team. And you can imagine, I tried to do the same miles as they did.

• 42:47Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  So we went.

• 42:48Rich Roll?

  There are probably a lot of like cross country, cross country running type guys, right?

• 42:52Speaker 01

  It was all triathlon. It was triathlon. So these guys were swimming in the morning, of course, one and a half, one and a half hours, and then four hour bike, five hour bike, and then one hour 30 run. That's what, for me, three days, it was okay. After one week, I was sick. I mean, I was done. I was grounded.

• 43:14Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  And I was like, what's, I'm not made for this. I mean, I'm fast, but I, I struggle if I do too much, you know, and, and people said, yeah, you need to lose weight. You're too heavy. You're still one hundred and ninety pounds. You're too, too heavy. But then I even tried to lose weight, but it's not so easy to, to, to lose muscle mass, trained like you never before.

• 43:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you can drop some, some fat, you know, off your gut or whatever. But if you have big shoulders and, you know, that doesn't just, that doesn't happen very quickly, no matter what you're doing.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then also the swimming, I, I'm still not the best swimmer and I, I'm not, when you can imagine you play hockey, you're like, it's different than technique swimming. You have to be sleek and in the water and I'm, I'm not really flexible as well. And all that came into play. And I mean, that took a lot of time to transform. But

• 44:12Rich Roll?

  So you're still trying to do it though. You're, you're like jamming this round peg into a square hole, like trying to make yourself do what everyone else is doing. If I just keep doing it eventually, like I'll get used to it.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  But I, I, the good thing always was I listened to my body. So when I, and in the beginning, I was so tired, I had to stop. So I didn't even have to listen to my body because my body will

• 44:36Rich Roll?

  Who's telling you?

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Well, told me this so clear, these signs that you couldn't avoid them. So I got really, oh, I was, I had a hard time in the beginning because when you're not so successful, maybe just wanting to get successful, you have, you go what people say. So also, you cannot just do things your way. And, and then you, if you don't win, then people are going to criticize you because yeah, you're not doing it our way. So in the beginning, of course, I was not the best from the start. It's impossible. But I was a talent. I was fast when I was rested, always because I had raw speed.

• 45:19Rich Roll?

  Did you ever think that maybe Ironman wouldn't be your distance though? And that you should do ITU and you know, focus on the shorter races?

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that was never a question for me because I was in Hawaii and I was hooked from that mentality and I was not a swimmer. So I knew you have to swim really fast.

• 45:36Rich Roll?

  Those guys are really fast.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. And also I was not so a fan of the drafting, bike drafting thing because my strength was the bike. I loved riding my bike around. That was where I was strong.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  And actually I always loved to run, although I was a big guy. And they always said like, you will never run fast unless you shred these pounds. But I actually ran pretty fast 10ks with 195 pounds.

• 46:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So what was your 10k at 195?

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Like I ran like 32, 30.

• 46:16Rich Roll?

  And what was your, when you got seven in that first Ironman, you weighed what 190 then?

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe about, what's that about 86 kilo? Yeah, probably. That's about that. Yeah.

• 46:27Rich Roll?

  And what was your marathon time there?

• 46:29Speaker 01

  It was 306.

• 46:32Rich Roll?

  On the end of an Ironman?

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:34Rich Roll?

  And now, several years later, and 20 pounds lighter.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Nine years later.

• 46:40Rich Roll?

  Your best marathon time in an Ironman is 243?

• 46:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, 243.

• 46:46Rich Roll?

  Which is insane, right? That was in Ironman Florida in 2011, right?

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, I mean, it was a cool day, cooler day was, was perfect, perfect day. Also for to go sub eight. But yeah, I mean, that's pretty quick for still a big guy like me.

• 47:03Rich Roll?

  It's, it's quick for, I don't care how big or small you are, it's quick for anybody. And for people that are listening, it's, it's almost beyond comprehension. So Ronnie, as I mentioned in the intro to this, set the fastest Ironman time ever run, ever performed on, in North America at Ironman Florida in 2011. And you ducked under eight hours at 759, right?

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:28Rich Roll?

  And that included like a 419 bike split or something like that?

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, 419.

• 47:33Rich Roll?

  A 419 bike split and then a 243 marathon.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  It was funny, I would never believe I could run that fast because I was already feeling really tired, but it's

• 47:45Rich Roll?

  It's unbelievable.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  That's what I always find so, how you, what's you're able to do, you know, in training, you think, oh, it's impossible to run, I'm happy to run thirty minutes off the bike, but in racing, your mental and everything, your mental focus and everything, and you can do things you would never believe.

• 48:05Rich Roll?

  Right, and that's the message that I'm always trying to put out, and that's, you know, the idea behind this podcast is that we're all victims of our own limitations, right, whether they're mental or physical, or just patterns that we're used to, and if anything, you know, we all have the power to transcend those circumstances and change, you know, sometimes you gotta be in pain to change, but that's a choice, you know, and to hear you, because it's easy for somebody like me or somebody who's listening to hear that and go, well, he's just a freak, you know, like, who can go under eight hours in an Ironman, this guy is just, he's an alien, you know, he's from a different planet, but for you to express like that you didn't think that that was possible, and how tired

• 48:48Rich Roll?

  you were getting off the bike, and then your ability to still pull that out and do that, I mean, it's remarkable.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, yeah, I think it's unbelievable what you really can do, yeah, when you

• 49:05Rich Roll?

  I mean, and it wasn't that many years from you, like, you know, traveling to San Diego and saying, this looks cool, like, wow, look at these guys, and then here you are, like, the fastest guy to ever do that race in this continent, you know, it's crazy.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  It was crazy, and the journey who got me there, like, so, was also, I learned a lot about myself, especially about my body, what's good for my body, and I think my success, I, I'm successful because I always listened to my body as well, I mean, in the beginning, I told you that I was struggling in these beginning years, but

• 49:44Speaker 01

  And then I learned that I can only, I mean, of course, you need to do a certain training regime, but I always try to, to listen to my body, even though it was not mainstream and what, what triathletes normally would do in volume, but I, I, I said, look, this is my body, this is how I work. And as more successful I got, as more confidence I got in my training and, and I, I, I think every experience, yeah, you learn from every experience, good or bad. And, and yeah, that, that race in, in Florida is also funny because just

• 50:27Speaker 01

  four weeks before I dropped out of Hawaii and I was like, oh, I'm not doing the right things. I'm not ticking the boxes. But sometimes-

• 50:35Rich Roll?

  Right. So what happened in, what happened in Hawaii that year?

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Well, I think for Hawaii, I always, because it's the, the biggest race in our sport, it's the best guys, it's the hardest course. I mean, the course is the hardest because it's so hot and so humid and so windy. And you just wanna be over-prepared, maybe, in your mind, but over-prepared is already a word, is over-prepared is not good. You wanna be prepared, the best you can be. But if you want it so bad, you try to, you try to do good in a good way, but then maybe it's too much.

• 51:08Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  So I always did a little bit too much the last few weeks.

• 51:12Rich Roll?

  You showed up over-trained.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Over-trained and, you know, mental part, most important part. For me, in Ironman racing, you have to be fresh mentally. I mean-

• 51:22Rich Roll?

  And so what do you do to make sure that you're fresh mentally? Like, what are the actual things on a daily basis that you do to take care of that?

• 51:31Speaker 01

  For me, it's, I'm performing the best if I, if I'm around my family, around my friends. It's not what I do in training, it's what I do off-training. It's what relaxes me. That's, I feel like my recovery is better and just like the positive attitude around, like just like positive energy. That's what keeps me fresh. And of course, in my particular way, not, maybe a bit less training than others. That doesn't mean I train less hard. I think when I train, I train really hard.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  I mean, for me, I'd go on the limits, but in the volume, in the, I, I go a little, I go with less.

• 52:19Rich Roll?

  Oh, with less, right. And that's something that you learned, kind of the hard way over the years of,

• 52:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:25Rich Roll?

  you know, to kind of hearken back and pick up where we were talking about before. And I think it takes a really strong, like, sense of yourself and kind of mental constitution to be able to

• 52:37Rich Roll?

  not just realize that, but to put your foot down and say, this is not working for me. I know this seems to work for everyone else, or this is what everyone is telling me that I should do, but I'm gonna go over here and try something different. And, you know, I just remember as being a, being a swimmer in college and, and this is like the late eighties at Stanford, and the kind of conventional wisdom and swimming at the time was volume, like tons of volume. Like, we would swim during Christmas training season, like the hard part of the year of training wise, we're going like 20,000 meters a day, you know, like insane amounts of swimming for races that are 44 seconds long, you know, like really short stuff, right? And, and I would just do it, you know, and I'm, I actually do well with volume, like, volume works for me,

• 53:21Rich Roll?

  but I understand doesn't, not for everybody. And there was one guy,

• 53:25Rich Roll?

  my friend, John Moffett, who I had on the podcast and the audio got screwed up, so I'm gonna have to have him on again. But he, he had been the world record holder on the 100 breaststroke.

• 53:35Rich Roll?

  Big guy, like really big, strong guy. And he was just like, I'm not doing this, you know? And I thought, like, who is he to say, what's what? Like, this is what we're doing. Come on, why isn't he not showing up for workout? And he's like, I can't do that kind of work. Like, and I just remember as an 18-year-old looking at that and going, I can't believe he has the balls to like, stand up to the coach or to the program or to everything we're all being told that we need to do. And for him to be able to understand his body and what he needed to be a champion and say, I'm, I have to stop. Like, I can't, this is not in service to my goals, you know? So, I can only imagine for you, I mean, the only reason I raise that is just because the analogy being like, I understand how difficult, it's hard to understand how hard it

• 54:17Rich Roll?

  must have been to buck that tradition, you know, when there's so much momentum behind it and everybody's saying, do this, do this, do this.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Yes. That's exactly right, what you say, because

• 54:30Speaker 01

  That was so hard because it would have been easier to go with the flow or I don't know, just do it and maybe be not, well, just say, well, then you I'm just screwed and I'm not successful, you know?

• 54:41Rich Roll?

  But you're also taking a big risk because if you don't perform, then everyone's going to point at you and say, we tried to tell you, why didn't you listen to us?

• 54:48Speaker 01

  And there I was lucky that I was from the start, successful with what I did.

• 54:52Rich Roll?

  Well, I guess it is, yeah.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Quite successful, not, but I was, so I was always like, yeah.

• 54:59Rich Roll?

  Unbelievably, like a two, almost 200 pound hockey player, tennis player guy is like killing it, you know, in a very short period of time. So you're doing, obviously you're doing something right.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  So in the beginning, people were still saying, oh, you need to do more, you need to lose weight, whatever. But then when you get more successful, people start to say, oh, what you do is actually works actually. And then I'm saying, no, no, no, it works for me. I'm not saying this, but people start to, you know, it's always when you're successful, everything is, is good you do, but that's not true. I do a lot of things wrong still. That doesn't mean just because I'm successful, I'm doing everything right, you know, that's, I mean.

• 55:39Rich Roll?

  That brings up a really interesting and I think really important thing. And, and you know, I get this a lot and I'm sure you do all the time, like everywhere you go, what do you eat before a workout? What do you eat after a workout? What do you put in your bottles on the bike? And, you know, what's your secret recipe for how you prepare to perform the way you do? As if there is some, you're, you're holding on to some secret that if you just told them that it would work for them as well, or that they would suddenly transform themselves. And what I always say is it's like, look, it's not, you know, it's not what I'm doing. It's not, you know, I'm not the guru and you have to take personal responsibility and ownership of that. And that requires the hard work of, of developing a relationship with yourself and understanding how your body works, what works, what doesn't.

• 56:24Rich Roll?

  You have to be aware, you have to be really conscious of how you're feeling and what's going on and whether you journal that or you just become hyper vigilant about making those connections between whether it's the foods you're eating and how you're doing or the workouts that you're doing and how that's affecting you and sleep and all these variables. You have your own, you know, you have your own equation set. You have your own algorithm that's going to work for you and you gotta figure that out. There's no way around figuring that out for yourself.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. And I sometimes say, yeah, listen to your body. And then people look at me a little strange. And I'm like, I really mean it. Go get up in the morning. Listen, how do I feel? Speak with yourself. That's what I do sometimes, you know, because you have to learn your body, like your body is can tell you a lot. But if you don't listen to it, well, then it can't tell you anything. So that's, it's very hard to

• 57:22Rich Roll?

  Or if you're not treating, if you're not treating your body right, if you're not eating right, if you're not sleeping right, if you're stressed with your job, then you're just kind of go through your day feeling lousy all the time. And then you just become kind of numb to that, you know? So I think when you start to make improvements here and there, and you start to notice changes, that's when you have to, I mean, because you can disassociate, you know, you can disconnect and not think about it. It's actually work, or you have to make a conscious effort to do that, right?

• 57:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have to make a decision as well.

• 57:52Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's sometimes maybe like I get up in the morning and I have this hard day, but I'm really, I'm, I still feel this race, this, this, this training from yesterday. And then I say, I go on my bike and I ride and I have planned a six hour ride, but I feel really bad and turn around after two hours, but no bad feelings.

• 58:17Rich Roll?

  Right, not feeling guilty. I think that's the big thing, like beating yourself up like you failed or something.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Yes. And that's, I struggled for all my career. I mean, I had, this was an involvement, like I had to learn this. Don't, because it's like you give up, but you cannot do this all the time. I mean, that's

• 58:37Rich Roll?

  Year after year after year.

• 58:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. But you, sometimes you gotta do this six hour rides. I mean, it's just sometimes, I think it decides if your success

• 58:49Speaker 01

  What you're not doing, because we are, we endurance athletes are extreme guys. And with the volume and with the training, but where do you really draw the line? Where is the perfect amount for you individually? Who says thirty hours? Who says forty? Who says not twenty? I mean, and maybe one week, it's the perfect, like the perfect hours you should train is maybe twenty. Because you didn't sleep well, you, you have maybe other stress. That's what I mean. It's, I have a plan, of course, but it's, it's very.

• 59:24Rich Roll?

  Malleable, flexible, you're flexible depending on how you feel.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  And don't, some people, they, they drive on or they get their confidence from doing a plan. Oh, I did the plan. My, my race didn't go well, but I did the plan. And I was never like this. I was never a plan guy. I was like, oh, I didn't. I was more like, oh, I, I didn't train this. That's why I got successful, you know? Because here I was tired and then I decided not to do this training. And I'm really proud of that. And that's, well, that's how I, that's my perspective.

• 59:56Rich Roll?

  Which is good, yeah, because I know what that feels like to go, you know, like to try to get up and do a workout and be too tired and be, and then mope home feeling like, you know, what's wrong with me? As opposed to, well, this is, my body's giving me a message. It's not good or bad. You're the one who's placing a value judgment on that. You can, you can decide that it's actually good. Like, hey, my body's tired. That means I've been stressing it. It's time to. You get stronger when you rest and you allow your body to repair itself. So allow yourself to get repaired and then you'll be better.

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  Yes, of course. I mean, there's different ways to look at it. But that's how I works, how I work, how my mental, yeah, how I worked.

• 1:00:33Rich Roll?

  That's very healthy. I mean, if it was just a factor of how much you're training, then the guy who wins Ironman every year would be the guy who's training ninety hours a week. You know, it'd be the guy who's training the most. Obviously, that's not what it is, so.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  It's the guy who trains the smartest for his body, for his physics, for his men, for everything. Because you always have to see it as a whole. Also, maybe I'm not the guy to, to, and that maybe I'm not happy to train forty hours as well. Well, maybe that's not my like your friend, the swimmer, he said, I can't do it. But that doesn't mean he's less successful if he trains a bit less because it's

• 1:01:07Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  That's then it's perfect for him in his, in his.

• 1:01:11Rich Roll?

  Well, he's taking ownership of his preparation as opposed to abdicating that to a coach or some program without really thinking about what is really best for him.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:01:22Rich Roll?

  So I think that's important. And I think, you know, it's interesting to hear, and we talked more about it at lunch, but kind of your evolution from, you know, the volume methodology or philosophy and figuring out that that didn't work for you. And then really not just embracing this idea of, of listening to your body, but, but really the idea of the rest and the taper. And I think that that's something that gets really not enough. We all talk about recovery and all of that, but like for you to really properly taper. I mean, your body needs, it needs a long time to rest and it takes a lot of mental fortitude to relax into that and not panic.

• 1:02:03Rich Roll?

  And in swimming, um, you know, you'll, we used to train like, you know, eight months straight, just every day, hard, hard. It was crazy, right? And then two week taper where you do literally like do almost nothing for two weeks. And you just lay on a couch for two weeks and you would feel like amazing, like sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. You kind of rolled the dice. Your whole season was about this one taper. But when we were at lunch and you were talking about some of your best races have been where you like, were it were after, like a couple of weeks after a race that didn't go so well. And then you just kind of relaxed for a couple of weeks.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:02:38Rich Roll?

  Released the pressure, didn't really train very hard and then surprised yourself with like these crazy results. And I think that's a testament. I want you to talk a little bit about that, but I think it's a testament to really just how much recovery you need when you're punishing your body that much. It takes a long time for you to resuscitate yourself.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, I had to learn this the hard way. Like I said, I trained really hard for Hawaii. Too close as well and I learned from my body and maybe for others as well.

• 1:03:07Rich Roll?

  This is in 2011, right?

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  Eleven, yeah.

• 1:03:09Rich Roll?

  And so just for context, in 2008, you were fourth.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Fourth.

• 1:03:13Rich Roll?

  At the Kona Ironman World Championship, so. So, so then what happened in 09 and 2010?

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Uh, I, 09, I dropped out. 10, I got, uh, no, I got 14th in 09.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  10 also 14th, 16th, I think. And 11, I dropped out.

• 1:03:33Rich Roll?

  So, I mean, not really knowing you very well, but just hearing that, it sounds to me, I would imagine, or I'd be willing to venture that after getting fourth in 2008, you're like, "Hey, man, like, I'm, I could be like on top here." So then the following year, you doubled down, you're training super hard and you show up and you're just like, every, all, you know, all the cards on the table. And, but you were just overtrained and flat.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I, I thought, "Hey, I'm fourth with that training I'm doing."

• 1:04:03Rich Roll?

  What if I train harder?

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, what if I train, I, I fell, I fall, I, I fell into that.

• 1:04:09Rich Roll?

  Rather than doing what, what got you to get fourth?

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:04:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  That's how it was because as, as more, uh, training I did, as more accustomed, I got to training and I could handle more volume. And before, my body was always telling me more, "Oh, you're tired." Because I was really much tired. So after my fourth in, in Hawaii, I was like, "Oh, I'm fourth, four minutes off the win." Greg Alexander won. Um, man, this is, this, this could be, I mean, I could win next year.

• 1:04:42Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  So I did everything and I had these three years where I just overdid it. I still won my Ironman Switzerland's, um, but it was just too much in the end of the season, I think. I was burned, I was mentally burned, but also physically because my tapering was always not enough, not enough time. And in 2011, I had this new experience. I, uh, trained again really hard. Uh, al- almost until two weeks to the race.

• 1:05:12Rich Roll?

  To Kona.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  To Kona, and I felt really flat, leading up, raced flat, and I have to, had to give up in, in the run. And I was disappointed, but I immediately decided, hey, you know what, in four weeks' time, there is an Ironman, Ironman Florida, going to race it, but you know what, I'm.

• 1:05:31Rich Roll?

  Just have fun.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:32Rich Roll?

  Afterthought.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I went, I went to Austin. I trained my two hours a day, still, an hour or two a day, but that's for, for a pro athlete, that's really not much. I had the Shiner Buck every night, actually, or two. No, I was really in a relaxed state.

• 1:05:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:50Speaker 01

  I have to say, I did seventy point three, two weeks later, in Austin. And then, so, but before that, and after that, like, it was.

• 1:05:59Rich Roll?

  Just relax, having a good time, like, hanging out.

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  Just the last four, for, for, for weeks, I, I ran three times a week, I biked three times a week, and I swam three, three times a week, so that's like, really low.

• 1:06:12Rich Roll?

  And eating, eating lunch with Rip Esselstyn at Whole Foods.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:06:16Rich Roll?

  Eating Rip's Big Bowl.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Yes, about that, yeah, Whole Foods, I always enjoy, that's, that's great. No, and, and, and then I showed up there, and.

• 1:06:24Rich Roll?

  And you're like, but you didn't put it that much pressure on yourself, right? This was just to, at Ironman, I mean, still an Ironman.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:06:31Rich Roll?

  Still a professional.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I.

• 1:06:33Rich Roll?

  But it's not Kona.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  No, it's not Kona, I'm, but I wanted a little bit redemption, or not redemption, but like, just, I wanted to show that I was in good form for myself. So I, I wanted, deep down, I wanted to win, but it's not like I put, it's not Kona, like you said, it's never that pressure of.

• 1:06:50Rich Roll?

  Right, so, and, and, and the, so you're running two or three times a week during this period, during this lead up?

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Forty-five minutes.

• 1:06:58Rich Roll?

  Forty-five minutes, right, okay.

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, because.

• 1:07:02Rich Roll?

  And you're going, what, like, how many hours a week of training?

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  Oh, maybe the last four weeks, I did maybe. I would say 12 hours of training.

• 1:07:11Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:12Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  Also with the tapering for the 70.3.

• 1:07:16Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:07:16Speaker 01

  I mean, then I was even less. And I was flat after Hawaii. Still, I did the race. So one week I almost did nothing. I actually had vacation with my former girlfriend, now wife, the week just after Hawaii. And then I went to Austin, one week tapering for the race. And then after the race, two weeks tapering. So actually, the last four weeks were.

• 1:07:37Rich Roll?

  Really not much of anything.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  I haven't, actually, after Hawaii, I haven't ridden my bike for a week because I was so. And then I decided to go to Austin and decided to race for them.

• 1:07:48Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  But that's unbelievable. When you look back, it's like.

• 1:07:52Rich Roll?

  And then you go, yeah, you go 759.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:07:56Rich Roll?

  And so what do you, like, when you're running and you're like, the last couple of miles of that run, like, what's going through your mind? Like, how is this happening or?

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Oh, I was.

• 1:08:04Rich Roll?

  Or is the switch getting flicked like, oh, I understand now.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  There was, oh, you mean how I really?

• 1:08:09Rich Roll?

  Like, when it, when it clued into you, like, you know, why am I succeeding here? And why haven't I been succeeding in Hawaii the last couple of years?

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, there in the race, I didn't ask myself this question. I was just enjoying the moment. I was just like, man, this is cool, flying 243, flying 350, like, or, well, I don't know, 5 minute a mile or 5.

• 1:08:30Rich Roll?

  You're going, you're going like four minute Ks or?

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, like 350, actually.

• 1:08:35Rich Roll?

  350, yeah.

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  So it was just amazing and, and, yeah, but then after the race, I realized, huh? Something is wrong here. I have to change something.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  But I didn't change it for, for 212 too much, actually.

• 1:08:52Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Because you always try to.

• 1:08:55Rich Roll?

  Then you get caught up in.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Yes, you get caught up still.

• 1:08:59Rich Roll?

  What are other people doing?

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  Exactly. You train with other people, which is great. I mean, 2012, I trained with Chris McCormick, but then also I was in Sedona and the altitude was not so my thing. I guess. And, and also, yeah, I had to learn that I need to do my own thing. Maybe not, it's nice to train in a, in a, with nice, with good athletes. Makes you strong, but it's better, I think, early in the year. Before the Hawaii prep, you need to do exactly what you need.

• 1:09:29Rich Roll?

  Well, it's so easy to get caught up in what everybody else is doing. And he, why is he suddenly faster than I am today? And then you get insecure or? You know, I just noticed that like if you're riding in a group ride, like you're chatting with people, you're going hard and then you're going easy or you're in a peloton where you know the wind is being broken for you. And so you look down at your power meter and you realize you're either riding too hard or too easy based on what you set out for your workout that day. Like it becomes a very, it's fun and it's refreshing, but it becomes very unfocused. And at times, I think if you make that a repetitive pattern, it becomes counterproductive to your goals because you're not, you're not actually using that time to do the thing that you know that you need to do to achieve your goal.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  Exactly. I think sometimes for the fun of it is great and I don't, I don't say it was not good. But like I said, everybody works different. Some need a lot of training, even leading up to the race. And I'm the guy who needs a little less and yeah, so.

• 1:10:31Rich Roll?

  So you have to kind of hide out from people for a while.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  Yes, a little bit. That's what I did this year.

• 1:10:36Rich Roll?

  That's what you're doing right now.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  Really curious how that turns out. But it's nice to be around friends, still riding together, but just it's about my program. It's not about, it's just about me, not like.

• 1:10:47Rich Roll?

  Right. If they want to come with you, that's fine, but they're going to have to go as fast or as slow as you're going.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's a plan and it's, sometimes you can still have fun. It's always important, I think, to don't forget about the fun in training, even if you train for a goal. You know, sometimes you get too, too serious about it. Like serious is good, but you still, if you're, if you're.

• 1:11:09Rich Roll?

  You're relaxed.

• 1:11:09Speaker 01

  Don't have fun anymore, it's no good.

• 1:11:18Rich Roll?

  And where, so where have you been doing your running around here? You go, do you have any of the trails or are you keeping it all on the pavement?

• 1:11:24Speaker 01

  Um, I've, I've, I kept it a lot on the pavement, but I know some nice trails around here as well. I don't know the names.

• 1:11:30Rich Roll?

  Chesbrough?

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  Chesbrough, exactly.

• 1:11:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's a good one.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  So that's one, but I have been on the, on the road a lot because in San Diego, I was the week before. I ran only in the lagoon there in San Diego.

• 1:11:41Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  Only on the, on sand, like almost our trails. So here I wanted to do. Two weeks of good pavement running?

• 1:11:49Rich Roll?

  Well, right around in this neighborhood where you are, it's great because it's kind of that same kind of camber of pavement where it's pretty flat, but there's those gradual ups and downs. It's pretty much like Hawaii.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  So I have been lapping here and it's not too crowded with the cars and Giuliano helped me with the nutrition and stuff and that's really helpful as well.

• 1:12:10Rich Roll?

  Right. So I want to talk a little bit about how he informs your training and how you guys get together and decide how you're going to prepare, like your schedule in terms of what your workouts are going to be. Like, how does that relationship work?

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  Well, actually, we sat together. We haven't worked. We started this year. He was always a good friend. Like I said, I met him in 2000, in San Diego, and we always have been friends since then, which is quite cool.

• 1:12:40Rich Roll?

  Is he now like, "Hey, man, I was the triathlete. Now you're the champion? Like, what's going on? I was supposed to be the guy."

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, he did one Ironman, but he was like, "Oh, it's too hard." But he still does Olympic distance pretty fast, actually. But he is not the guy I wanted to be to go professional on Ironman, but he wins some local races in San Diego. So yeah, he has a lot of experience as well and he's coaching as well. And he's a good friend and I always like to talk to him and I always liked his view of things. Like, he understood my mentality.

• 1:13:15Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  And we sat together in January, no, in February, when I came to racing Los Cobos, dropped out in Los Cobos, actually, and then went doing 70.3 Oceanside. And two weeks later, I won South Africa. Same thing happened to me in Hawaii and then Florida. It was exactly four weeks and I won in South Africa.

• 1:13:37Rich Roll?

  Right. So here you have, again, you've had this experience that's telling you, like, this is a better way for you to go.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. And there we had that talk and he said, "Ronnie, you have to come back to your roots. Like, you know, remind yourself. What was it? Why were you so strong?" And I said, "Yeah, you're right." Right, I I got lost a little bit. I I was, I got lost in, yeah, what ought to do like. I have to do more. What can I do to, it's hard to.

• 1:14:07Rich Roll?

  You just need someone to be paying attention to pull you back because it's so, I can't imagine not getting caught up in, oh, my God, it's Kona. Like, I really should get out and do another workout or, you know, it's not, you need a guy like that. It's like, no, you know, you're not doing that.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  And mostly in our society is like, oh, you do less? Oh, that's great. That's like, oh, wow. You know, it's our society, like, it's, it's never like, oh, less is better. It's not, I'm, it's, it's like more work, more harder work, and it's, it's hard to, to really believe in that way. I'm like.

• 1:14:43Rich Roll?

  It is true, but I also think that there's like a trend happening right now, like, like, like these, um, this, this idea of like life hacks, like what are the shortcuts that we can take to achieve our goals? Like, how, how can I put in, like, like Tim Ferriss, he's, he's written a couple of books that are kind of on this theme of like, how can I get, you know, eighty percent of the results by putting in twenty percent of the work? Or like, where am I wasting time? You know, and I think that there's been some thought put into that in terms of training where you have like guys who are trying to train for marathons with a CrossFit approach and only training, like never doing the long run. And, you know, I don't, I don't have any experience with that. Like, I'm not in a position to judge whether that's good or bad or whatever. And I even had, you know, a guy on the podcast to talk about it.

• 1:15:29Rich Roll?

  Some people seem to be doing well with that, but it's, it's more the point of, hey, let's look at this. Like, are we doing it the best way? Like, let's try a few other things and see what that works. And then having the, like we were talking about before, the wherewithal to say, I'm doing it this way, which is different.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then we had that talk and I was like, yeah, you're right, but I need somebody to, to keep me on that, on that way. So we said, okay, let's work together for this year and see how that works. And he sent me the programs and I'm not the program type, you know, I, so I always will give him the feedback like, oh, I didn't do that and I didn't like. I mean, I'm still like that, but that's, he said, you have to say, you know, you have to tell me when, you have to adjust because a coach can never know you as good, I like as, even if he knows me very well. But I live in Switzerland and he lives in, in, in San Diego, so we talked a lot, but.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  We always adjust a little bit, but actually it was the first program I did close to ninety percent and that's a lot for me because he knew me so well and we talked about it of course and when he do it, we do it together. It's not like he just writes the plan. It's like, you know, that's, I think that would be good and then and he, he puts it in a plan, but it's, it was good for me. It was something new as well and new, uh, before I was a little, yeah, more maybe self, yeah, just, yeah, I lost myself a little bit and uh, and, and this year was, is the most successful year I, I have and also.

• 1:17:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's exciting. I mean, it's so exciting. You won Ironman South Africa. You won your seventh consecutive Ironman Switzerland and so you're going into Kona with a lot of positive momentum and you've got a guy who's making sure that you're doing the things that you did that made you successful in those crazy races that you did. And so it's good, man, it's lining up, right?

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it kept me real and all the way I'll lead up and he's always, it's good. It's very good. It's good to have good, uh, people around you who believe in you and who, uh, yeah, really, uh.

• 1:17:38Rich Roll?

  Well, it's still a team's, I mean, it's an individual sport, but you can't do it without a team. You can't perform at your level without people in your corner who are, you know, helping you out.

• 1:17:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:49Rich Roll?

  You have to.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, uh, just, yeah, you're, you're lonely alone enough in the Ironman itself.

• 1:17:56Rich Roll?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:17:57Speaker 01

  And I think it's nice to, to have that support. And I mean, I have doubts as well, like everybody else, you know, is, do I, am I doing too less now, you know, but I cannot do anything wrong because I tried the, the other stuff.

• 1:18:13Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  The volume, the, the, the, the.

• 1:18:15Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean, after two thousand eight, how many more Konas do you have to do?

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:20Rich Roll?

  The way you were doing it before.

• 1:18:21Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:18:21Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:22Rich Roll?

  So let's talk a little bit about how you mentally, uh, approach the races from, I know that you're like big into like visualization and putting thought and time into rehearsing mentally what you're gonna do. So I wanna, I wanna hear a little bit about that. So I think that's really important.

• 1:18:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I really visualize, try to visualize the whole race, all the problems who could turn up during the race. And for me, most important is to have an answer for every possible situation happening. Because what I experienced the worst is if you start arguing with yourself during the race, not having a solution. This solution can be really just like

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  an easy one, like not even, not even a good one. But when you, when you agreed with it before, like, let's say, if I have a moment where I feel really bad, I just say, it goes away, it will be good. You know, and when I decide that before, like if I go through that before the race, and then in the race, I, I already have the solution, kind of, oh, it always

• 1:19:35Rich Roll?

  Well, it's not an unexpected thing, right? Because there's always something that's going to come up in a race, like, it's never going to go perfectly, right?

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  Never, yeah.

• 1:19:42Rich Roll?

  So when something happens, to not freak out or

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:19:45Rich Roll?

  stress out about it. Like you said, it's a day, it's a short, it's a short life, you know, there's the ups and the downs. And

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:19:52Rich Roll?

  And I was reading about, and watching the video from this past, the seventh win at Ironman Switzerland, and you're in, you're, you're in the run and you're having, or was it at the end of the bike? Or was it early in the run when you started to cramp, you started to cramp? And I mean, I could, you could easily, it was like 95 degrees out, you could easily say, well, that's it, I'm so, I mean, if you're cramp up and you can't move. So how do you mentally kind of work your way through that and, and have faith that like, if you keep going, that you can get to the other side of that?

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's a mix between positive experience and, yeah, just never give up, kind of thinking. And because when I got to my fourth place in Hawaii, I was really close on giving up. During the bike, because I had one of these moments, but like a, a, a deep one. So.

• 1:20:50Rich Roll?

  And you weren't in fourth when you got off the bike.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  No, I was in twelfth.

• 1:20:53Rich Roll?

  Twelfth, yeah, exactly. Like you worked your way up in the run.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  Yes. And so I had these moments there where I wanted to throw my bike out of the, on the lava fields. You know why? And then I turned this race around for good. And that experienced, experience really helped me for the future races that it's never over. And it always like keep the, like it always turns out good. It's like a happy end and I love happy ends in, in movies. It's just, it's, it's going to be like, don't, don't lose this, this belief. It, and because I, I experienced it myself, like I wouldn't have put a scent on me on a, in, in this Ironman in Hawaii in 2008, not a scent in this moment on the lava fields.

• 1:21:38Speaker 01

  And then I turn it to, and I run up to fourth place. It was one of the most unbelievable feeling of my life. And from then on, I said, Ronnie, never, never, never give up on yourself. So that was one really who, who, who uh, set me up for the rest of my career, like experience. So yeah, again, Ironman Switzerland this year, I, I had these cramps. I was for a moment, I was out of control. I was angry. That's okay. But don't, what's also important is.

• 1:22:10Rich Roll?

  I mean, did it, was it bad enough that you had to stop running and stretch? Or were you just, did it just?

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  It was only on the bike.

• 1:22:17Rich Roll?

  Oh, it was only on the bike. Okay.

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  And I couldn't pedal anymore because every time it was the, the, the inside.

• 1:22:24Rich Roll?

  Right. Him, inside of your leg.

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  Inside of tight, inside tight. So I couldn't pedal anymore and I had to really stretch. And the guy, the main guy, Jan van Berkel, overtook me and I, I, for about five minutes, I had to stretch and.

• 1:22:40Rich Roll?

  Right, cuz he had, he'd come out of the water ahead of you and then you passed him.

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:22:43Rich Roll?

  And then you're having these cramps and then he passes you again.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  Exactly. I passed him. I was actually in cruise control. And then, uh, actually, one bottle fell to the ground and I was for too long without water, maybe for twenty minutes, I was without water with, it was ninety seven degrees, whatever. And, and that was, uh, I was too much in, in this heat. And, uh, yeah, I paid it for it, for cramp, with cramps and, but after two minutes of, uh, yeah, feeling bad and was like, oh, it's over. Then I was like, okay. Now, what are you going to do? It's now you take some, some salt, you try to drink, you try to stretch and, uh, um, just keep going, just keep going.

• 1:23:26Rich Roll?

  Just to have the composure to not panic.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:29Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And even if you panic, it's okay. I think it's also important to, to accept not being angry on yourself, you know, like, why did I react like this? It's like, what happened, happened. Now, calm down, just ride and you, I think, for me, I never thought that with your mental, how you can, uh, actually, how it, how it affects the body. How you can, like, if you don't panic, if you take it easy, these cramps start, started to go away. Because I was, I was calm. I tried to calm down. And when you, when you are panicking, your body is panicking as well.

• 1:24:07Rich Roll?

  Right. You seize up.

• 1:24:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:09Rich Roll?

  Your heart rate escalates, your blood, blood pressure, everything, yeah.

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:24:13Rich Roll?

  You go on a lockdown.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  It's what I learned as well, because I had a lot of cramps before. So I learned that when you relax, it's the best for cramps, like, relax. It's the opposite you wanna do.

• 1:24:24Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  But it's relax and it comes from the, from the, from, from the head to, to.

• 1:24:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  And, uh, yeah, then it came back and I kept going, um, and actually felt good again, quite good, tired, but good. And, uh, yeah, I was still in the, yeah, not, yeah, term in time to catch up.

• 1:24:45Rich Roll?

  You passed Von Berkel and then he, uh, and then he ended up dropping out, right?

• 1:24:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, he dropped out. He was over, over, maybe dehydrated, overheated. And I was putting myself with the ice and everything I could find, but.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, again, that was a moment there where it was almost over. But yeah, you can always turn it around for good in Ironman. Or I think in your life generally, sometimes you feel like, oh, I cannot make it.

• 1:25:16Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:25:16Speaker 01

  It's over, but it's never over.

• 1:25:18Rich Roll?

  Until it's over. Right. And when you're racing, do you, how much energy do you put into looking at who the other contenders are that you're going to be butting heads against? I mean, do you get, do you get all caught up in, oh, well, you know, what's this guy's, you know, FTP? And like, what are the, you know, like, what kind of, like, where am I? Strategize around all that? Or do you just focus on, I'm just gonna do my thing in my race?

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, no. I mean, I'm interested in all these thresholds and powers and stuff, but I don't even know who's on the start list. My wife always tells me, oh, this guy. And I always say, I don't wanna know. I don't care. Like, and my friends are like, oh, now this guy is on the start list. I'm like, okay, I don't care at all. I just wanna.

• 1:26:04Rich Roll?

  Right, so we're not gonna have a big conversation about all the people that you're thinking about racing in Kona?

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  No, no, really, I have no, I'm big respect for everybody. I, I really, I have enough to do with myself, I think. I have more construction work to do with myself, my mind, my body. And if you waste the energy and time to see how good they are, they are good anyway. These are the best. But I have to make sure I'm the best on that day. And if I can put the best performance on that day and there's still one faster, then I congratulate them. I mean, I have no, I mean.

• 1:26:40Rich Roll?

  So you're not, you're not getting caught up in rivalries and?

• 1:26:43Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:26:44Rich Roll?

  Any of that kind of stuff?

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  I'm not, also, I can't drive on anger. I'm more driving on, I am so, I'm a harmony, harmony, I like harmony.

• 1:26:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:54Speaker 01

  It's not. That I needed, but I I perform very good if also in the family it's harmony. I'm not good if there is any stress around, you know, in the family. So I raise the best if, because I I have I put energy from that, yeah.

• 1:27:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and everyone's different that way. I mean, some people need that, like, they almost want that conflict, like, that motivates them or gets them out of bed in the morning or whatever. I mean, I'm like you, like, I don't, you know, it's not about that, you know, it's about your own personal performance, but that's interesting.

• 1:27:27Rich Roll?

  On the subject of like watts and, you know, all this kind of stuff, like, I'm interested in your thoughts about, you know, particularly for like the amateur triathletes that are out there, that are training with power, interested in training with power, like, how, like, how caught up do you get in, you know, staring at your power meter numbers when you're training, or how important are those numbers in informing, you know, where, how you feel about where you're at and where you need to be? And, you know, is there like a balance of, like, do you just sometimes turn it off? Or, like, how does that work with you? Because you you hear the gamut of like, like Maka, like, he doesn't really look at it, like, he doesn't pay attention to it that much.

• 1:28:09Rich Roll?

  And then there's other guys who are just, they're just super geeked out on attack. Yeah, like Jordan is is the other extreme. And well, and he's an engineer and that's the way his mind works and that's what works for him. I mean, where do you fall in that, like, spectrum?

• 1:28:22Speaker 01

  I would say I fall more in Jordan's spectrum, but maybe not, I don't know him how, I don't know him that well that I know how extreme he is or how perfect, like, but I, I really like to see my watts. And what I think is, we, I think a lot of of of age groupers, but also pros, uh, ride a bit too hard maybe always in training. And I find what's good for actually not going too hard.

• 1:28:52Rich Roll?

  See, sometimes I find it the other way around. Like if I'm riding and I'm like, I gotta get, I have to make sure that my average watts are at this place. And if I don't do that, then I'm not getting better. And I, I put like this pressure on myself sometimes. And that is good sometimes, but I think, you know, it's hard for me to just turn it off and, and go out and enjoy a nice aerobic ride and not worry about it.

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  Well, it depends on your goal. If you say, look, I don't want to ride over 200 watts today. That's the goal. I mean, because it's an easy ride. So it's not about putting out, I mean, you could put out right now 300 watts, but it's, it's really, if you have a goal, I, I like it not to ride too hard because a lot of the time I go with my bodies and I, I let them go in the hills because they have no feeling for, and I'm like, hey, you're doing 300 plus watts. It's, we're doing an easy ride, but oh, I just want to go with the flow. I mean, sometimes I like that too, and I don't watch it. But if I, if I really want to do a hard training the other day, and I, I always

• 1:29:57Speaker 01

  put, go in these three, over 300 watts the, the day before, if I do an easy ride, this is affecting my, my really important ride when I want to ride 400 watts for my 15 minutes.

• 1:30:08Rich Roll?

  Right. If you're going too hard on the easy day.

• 1:30:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:30:10Rich Roll?

  Right. So that's a huge lesson, I think, that like people don't pay enough attention to, which is,

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, they go too hard on the easy day, but then that means that they're not going to be able to go as hard as they need to on the hard day. And so you really, you think you're doing more, doing something better for yourself, but you're actually undercutting your performance.

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  And that's something I learned again this year as well with Giuliano. We talked about that. He said, oh, you always ride a bit too hard. And it's true. And because then I couldn't do the quality work. And now I'm with my quality work. It's, it improved a lot because I'm riding these easy rides easy. And, and I go really, I can go really hard on these hard intervals. And it makes a big difference because otherwise you just train something in between. Like you train maybe like, yeah. Like, and then you, you, you don't, you don't stimul, stimul, no stimulus for the body anymore.

• 1:31:05Rich Roll?

  Exactly. That's how you plateau, really. Like you're in, you're not going easy enough on the easy days and you're not going hard enough on the hard days. You reach a certain level of proficiency, but then you're, you're never able to kind of have a breakthrough from that.

• 1:31:16Speaker 01

  And for racing, I use the same. I know my watts. I can race about, that's a little bit of the problem, but I can race an Ironman between 300 and 330 watts average. So I always try to stay on 330. So it's again, actually a

• 1:31:33Rich Roll?

  But do you ever feel like, well, if I'm doing that, then I'm overlooking the possibility that maybe I could have a breakthrough race? You know what I mean? Like, like, because you're putting a limit on yourself. You say, I know I need to ride at 330. I can't go above 330.

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:49Rich Roll?

  But what if you're actually capable of more?

• 1:31:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:51Rich Roll?

  Like if you were just going on feel?

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it never happened. Well, that's also good. I mean, on a really good day, maybe I ride 330 and the second half, I ride 340. Okay, but mostly it's like that I can't hold. It's still, mostly it's like, yeah, it's having a little bit left in the tank. Ironman is a long day.

• 1:32:16Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  And yeah, you're right.

• 1:32:18Rich Roll?

  It's about conserving and being really responsible with how you're dispensing your energy.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  And I just know by, by, by, by my experience that I think I've never rode faster the second half than the first. So, so my pacing was always, it was always right or always a bit too much in the first, in the beginning.

• 1:32:44Rich Roll?

  Right, but never overly conservative?

• 1:32:46Speaker 01

  Never overly conservative. Yeah.

• 1:32:48Rich Roll?

  Interesting.

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:32:49Rich Roll?

  On that, on that subject, I mean, what do you, you know, what do you see when you go to these races?

• 1:32:57Rich Roll?

  Like, what are some of the things that you observe amateur athletes doing? Where they're, if, and you're going, God, why are they doing that? Like, if they would just do it like this, they could, without training any harder than they're doing, like, I could see this person being so much better. You know, just in watching them, like, for example, the day before the race, and you see people out like hammering on their bike or something like, you know what I mean? Like little, simple things that are driven by fear or insecurity or just lack of experience.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I see that a lot. I mean, in Kona, it's special.

• 1:33:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, people are all at like peacocks, like trying to show you how fit they are.

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  I can't tell it otherwise. I've never seen it. But the thing is, in Zurich, I'm always at my home, so I don't see what people actually do. But in Kona, you're in Oli Drive. And I saw this guy one time, and he was doing these inner walls two days before in the run. And I was like, man, he's up there with Greg tomorrow, I think, or...

• 1:33:52Rich Roll?

  Either that, or...

• 1:33:54Speaker 01

  So sometimes it's funny to watch.

• 1:33:57Rich Roll?

  I'm sure like the pros, you guys like joke amongst each other, like, look at that guy, why is that guy doing that?

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, they are all great athletes. I mean, but...

• 1:34:05Rich Roll?

  I mean, anybody who makes it to Kona is doing something right. It's so difficult.

• 1:34:09Speaker 01

  So it's not that I... Maybe I say, hey, why is he doing this? Of course, to my friend, maybe I say, hey, he's screwing his race, you know, and they put a lot of effort in it and maybe they don't know, you know, it's not actually not to laugh, because it's maybe then after the race, he's like, oh...

• 1:34:27Rich Roll?

  I don't know what happened, right?

• 1:34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, but, yeah, okay, one, a laugh or two you have for sure, because there are some who overdo it. But, you know, even the pros do it, you know? Also, we do the mistakes, so... But we can laugh about ourselves as well a bit, I think.

• 1:34:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:44Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:34:44Rich Roll?

  Well, you have to.

• 1:34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have to, I think. I did so many mistakes. Also, trying new things before a race, new nutrition or whatever.

• 1:34:51Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  I did all the mistakes. I mean, even as a pro. And it happens to me sometimes now.

• 1:34:57Rich Roll?

  What is your, what is your like sort of race day nutrition program look like?

• 1:35:02Speaker 01

  Race day nutrition, I, I, well, I, I...

• 1:35:08Speaker 01

  You mean in the...

• 1:35:08Rich Roll?

  Like, what do you have for breakfast? And what do you put on that? What's in your bottles?

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I...

• 1:35:13Rich Roll?

  It's all right, man, I'm a vegan, it's okay. You can tell me what you eat.

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  I'm really afraid.

• 1:35:16Rich Roll?

  It's all right.

• 1:35:17Speaker 01

  You know, I put a steak in the mixer.

• 1:35:19Rich Roll?

  You put a steak, you put a steak in the Vitamix until it's liquefied, and that's all you... You drink the blood of an ox.

• 1:35:28Speaker 01

  Oh my god, no, no. But yeah, no, no, it's, I like, I like bread and butter and I like jelly.

• 1:35:37Rich Roll?

  Bread and butter and lots of blocks of cheese and.

• 1:35:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, in the morning oatmeal, I like it because it's hot and it gives me energy. That's my pre-race meal with a banana and some, some bread with jam. Not gluten free, but now I think I try gluten free.

• 1:35:54Rich Roll?

  Just try it.

• 1:35:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do. And.

• 1:35:58Rich Roll?

  You don't have to, though.

• 1:35:59Speaker 01

  I wanna try.

• 1:36:00Rich Roll?

  We could still be friends.

• 1:36:02Speaker 01

  It's so good that you say that. I'm much more relaxed.

• 1:36:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:36:07Speaker 01

  No, no, just kidding. And then I have the nutrition, a good nutrition sponsor. Actually, the name is Sponsor, which I, I drink about one liter per hour.

• 1:36:17Rich Roll?

  Called Sponsor?

• 1:36:18Speaker 01

  It's called, it's called Sponsor, yeah. Not, not with the O, with the E in the end.

• 1:36:22Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:36:23Speaker 01

  Um, they have great, great stuff and yeah, I put about.

• 1:36:29Rich Roll?

  Is that like an electrolyte drink or is that like a malt, like a sugar maltodextrin?

• 1:36:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, maltodextrin, yeah, like different sugar, like, yeah. And about eighty, ninety gram or, yeah, about that, about hundred gram a, a, an hour. Every hour about one liter in Kona. In other races, it's eight, oh, I don't know, in ounces, sorry. But about one of these bottles.

• 1:36:53Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  Let's say it that way, yeah. And you know why it's a bit harder in Switzerland, in Ireland, Switzerland, I have, you have personal nutrition all the time, which makes it much easier. But you know why? How we turn around.

• 1:37:05Rich Roll?

  Oh, so you can have your own stuff out on the course there? Oh, interesting.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, very nice.

• 1:37:10Rich Roll?

  So how does that, like, what would you do there that you can't do in Hawaii?

• 1:37:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, for example, I start with only one bottle because I can get one an hour later. So up the hill, I don't have to have this, this extra um weight. I mean, I, I really, I, I specialized on planning this. It's like a little logistics plan, how you, how you do it. And of course, you, yeah, you're always perfectly nutri- like, well, it happened that it fell out this time, but next time I need a backup line plan when, when.

• 1:37:42Rich Roll?

  And just make sure Jonathan Toka brings you all the salt stick that you need, right?

• 1:37:46Speaker 01

  Next time when I have cramps.

• 1:37:47Rich Roll?

  Because we can't have you having cramps.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  No, that's a no-go, but I hope it's not happening again in Kona. But yeah, that's about, and what I take gels, but in the run, like every, like three, three an hour.

• 1:38:01Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 1:38:01Speaker 01

  And, but you know why? It's a lot about cooling, cooling down.

• 1:38:05Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  As much as possible and, yeah, staying, staying cool.

• 1:38:12Rich Roll?

  And so you're heading out there in like a week?

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  In a, yeah, in about a week. I will be there Friday. I mean Fri- so that's eight days before the race.

• 1:38:22Rich Roll?

  Right, so you have, it's like a good amount of time to acclimate to the heat and humidity, but not too long that you get stale or?

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was the idea, the idea. I was in San Diego a few, few, few weeks before, and it was quite hot and humid, actually. So I think that was good that I actually experienced some, some, some hot weather, some humid weather. And here in Westlake, it's a bit drier, it's a bit hotter, but drier. And yeah, I had two, not a good, not good experiences being too long on the island. I get a little bit tired, um, and.

• 1:38:56Rich Roll?

  The humidity starts to catch up to you, I think.

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  So, so seven days, I think, will be a good, good amount of time to be there. Because I won't be training a lot, that's for sure. Last year also, I did too many runs. I probably do, when will you, when will you play that?

• 1:39:14Rich Roll?

  Play this?

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  On air?

• 1:39:15Rich Roll?

  Um, I'm not sure yet.

• 1:39:16Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:39:17Rich Roll?

  I might put it up.

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  Well, then I don't tell you.

• 1:39:18Rich Roll?

  Well, either like, I'm thinking about, well, here's the thing. I was gonna either put it up like this week or next week, or I could wait until like right before Ironman? That could be good.

• 1:39:33Speaker 01

  That's not good.

• 1:39:34Rich Roll?

  You don't like that?

• 1:39:35Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 1:39:36Rich Roll?

  Oh, because you don't want to tell me anything? Oh, I can put this up after the race?

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no.

• 1:39:40Rich Roll?

  I can do that.

• 1:39:41Speaker 01

  No, I will not be training along. Well, they do their own stuff anyway.

• 1:39:44Rich Roll?

  They don't listen to this. Nobody listens to this anyway.

• 1:39:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I heard.

• 1:39:47Rich Roll?

  It's just me and you.

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  One million already?

• 1:39:49Rich Roll?

  It's just me and you, man. Come on.

• 1:39:51Speaker 01

  Of course. No, like I said, I will do, I will really try to, to, uh, to be fresh. That's my main goal this year, to be really fresh on the start line, fresh and happy, ready to go. That's the main goal.

• 1:40:05Rich Roll?

  Do you know, uh, you know, Mike Rous?

• 1:40:08Speaker 01

  Uh, I heard of it.

• 1:40:09Rich Roll?

  He like, he works in the fitness industry. Anyway, he, he, every year, he, on his birthday, he runs the number of miles of his birthday, right? And now he's like 50, I don't know exact age, 55 or something like that. So, but he's in Hawaii every year, so he does it on a lehi. So he's going to run, do this like 55 mile run or whatever. So I was going to say, maybe you should go out and do that with him right before the race.

• 1:40:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good idea, actually. I think that would be the best free paper I ever did.

• 1:40:36Rich Roll?

  You did, yeah.

• 1:40:37Speaker 01

  I think that's, that's a very good idea. I will.

• 1:40:40Rich Roll?

  This is my coaching advice to you.

• 1:40:42Speaker 01

  Uh, I will, can I get coached by you then?

• 1:40:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  We talk about it next for next year.

• 1:40:49Rich Roll?

  Of course. So, um, we'll wrap it up because you've, you've been gracious with your time, but I did want to ask you one thing. You have a, um, you have, uh, your first child being born this winter. Yeah. Congratulations on that.

• 1:41:04Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:41:05Rich Roll?

  And, uh, so I guess my question is, how does that change how you think about your training and your racing? Like, how does that impact kind of what you're doing?

• 1:41:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I'm making, I'm thinking a lot about it actually at the moment. And, uh, I think it will change a lot because, uh, racing is important. This is my job, but having a child, I mean, it's, I think it's.

• 1:41:31Speaker 01

  I haven't experienced it, so I will experience it. So, um, but I, I, I think I will do things differently. I wanna take, I don't wanna be away too long from the family. If possible, take the family to the training or I go not as far. And yeah, so I, I think uh folk focus uh will change uh a lot as a family father. I mean, until now, I ju- just, just could do what I wanted and uh, which was nice. But now I have responsibility as well. Um, yeah, I'm not scared, but I'm, I have a lot of respect because yeah, it's a little, little uh.

• 1:42:09Rich Roll?

  Just changes your perspective.

• 1:42:11Speaker 01

  Yes, it's not about you anymore. It's about somebody else who is relying on you.

• 1:42:16Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:42:16Speaker 01

  And uh, yeah, I thought also like, oh, can I go really on the edge? You know, like, can I push myself still? Because uh, yeah, sometimes you go, when it's in, in races and it's hot and you, sometimes you are out of the comfort zone. And yeah, you don't really know, well, maybe I just uh, maybe I push it too far. I mean, and can I still do that? Because now I have somebody relying on me like, that's just my fault. But I, I, I guess it's not going to be an issue. But I was just thinking about that, like, yeah, are you still pushing over that limit? You know, when I was twenty, nineteen, I was like, just, I don't care, just go.

• 1:42:52Rich Roll?

  Go, go, go, right. Yeah, I think it's, I don't feel, I mean, just as somebody who has kids, like, I don't feel it in like how hard I push myself in a workout. But I, but I think about it a lot or I feel it when I'm out cycling and, you know, I'm riding where there's a lot of traffic. Or there's, I don't, I never like bombed a sense or I don't do any of that kind of stuff that I would do when I was younger just for fun. You know, it's like, well, why am I going, why am I pinning this like, you know, downhill? You know, the, what's the point of that? Like, doesn't make any sense.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  I already do, yeah, like the, the bombing down, it makes no sense uh at all. Unless in races, sometimes you gotta go, I mean, but even then you can.

• 1:43:31Rich Roll?

  You think about like pro cyclists, like in the Tour de France, where they're like descending these, these alpine climbs and, you know, it's pouring rain and, you know, they have, they have kids. Like, you know, you know, Jens Voit, like, how many kids does he have? Four, five, six kids or something crazy like that? And he's just killing it out there. Like, how do you maintain that kind of mental focus to do that?

• 1:43:52Speaker 01

  I think sometimes when they crash badly, they have some problems as well to go

• 1:43:56Rich Roll?

  Right, get back again, yeah.

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could not imagine that, but I think, yeah, you can get used to that as well, I think.

• 1:44:03Rich Roll?

  Right, I mean, there was a, did you read, Jordan Rapp had another, not incredibly serious, but he had another crash on PCH a couple of weeks, several weeks ago, I don't know, four weeks ago or something like that.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  I heard something, but not.

• 1:44:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and it was like, he's okay, and he's got some road rash or something like that. It wasn't anything serious, that serious, but, but just like, you know, having had that other crash and now, you know, being a father and having, he wrote a blog post about his thoughts about it that I thought was really kind of introspective and touching and interesting.

• 1:44:38Speaker 01

  I haven't, I haven't read it, but, yeah, I'm going to read it. I heard about the big accident, but this one, I, I didn't, I, I, just one tweet I saw and, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, it's, will be a new experience for sure and, yeah, already now, actually, because it's already.

• 1:44:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's, it's there, it's percolating, it's incubating.

• 1:45:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:45:01Rich Roll?

  Is your wife gonna be in Hawaii?

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  No, she, she, we decided not to get distressed for the flight, you know, like, it's 12 hour flight and then another four and it's better she's at home and she's still working at home and, but, yeah, it's good like that. She was with me all the time with other races, but maybe, I don't know, next year if it works. Don't know, I have to inform myself a lot now as a future daddy.

• 1:45:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:27Speaker 01

  With the, I don't know, with, with a lot of things.

• 1:45:30Rich Roll?

  Children bring prosperity.

• 1:45:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:32Rich Roll?

  You just become, I don't know, it's, it's awesome, man, I'm excited for you, it's cool. So after Kona, are you taking a break or do you, you have more racing? You're gonna go back to Florida or what, what's going on?

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  No, definitely a break.

• 1:45:45Rich Roll?

  Of the baby.

• 1:45:46Speaker 01

  Um, yes, I want to do a longer break. I feel like I started my, my season very early in January already. I did a half Ironman, so a 70.3 and my season has been long with, yeah, two Ironman, three with Hawaii. So I hope it goes good and I am really confident, but I, I won't be stretching my season any longer like other years, because I think like you need to listen to your body and give it, give it the rest and then you can attack again.

• 1:46:17Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:46:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:18Rich Roll?

  Cool, man.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:20Rich Roll?

  All right. Well, thanks for doing this.

• 1:46:21Speaker 01

  Well, thanks. Thanks for this really interesting interview, interesting questions, very unusual.

• 1:46:27Rich Roll?

  It's unusual? Why is it unusual?

• 1:46:29Speaker 01

  Well, no, no, I'm not saying I mean-

• 1:46:31Rich Roll?

  Just a five-second soundbite.

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  No, just like good, good inside questions. Yeah, I liked it.

• 1:46:37Rich Roll?

  Well, thanks for taking the time.

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:39Rich Roll?

  I'm excited to cheer for you in Hawaii, man.

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:46:42Rich Roll?

  It's gonna be cool.

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:46:44Rich Roll?

  It was nice to... I mean, the best part of this podcast is I get to sit down, you know, with cool people like yourself and get to know them and talk to them. So I appreciate it, man.

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  Thank you. Same, same to you. Thanks, yeah.

• 1:46:55Rich Roll?

  All right, cool. So for people that are keen on jumping on the Ronnie bandwagon, they can find you on Twitter. You're at Ronnie Schildknecht. S-C-H-

• 1:47:06Speaker 01

  Ron, Ron Schildknecht, actually.

• 1:47:08Rich Roll?

  Oh, it's only Ron?

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  Ron, yeah. Ron Schildknecht. That's a very hard name. I have to change it for the US guys. Like, they can't spell it.

• 1:47:16Rich Roll?

  Okay, just spell it.

• 1:47:17Speaker 01

  Oh, R-O-N-S-C-H-I-L-D-K-N-E-C-H-T.

• 1:47:23Rich Roll?

  There you go. And you got a Facebook page, right?

• 1:47:26Speaker 01

  I got a Facebook page, Iron, and I call myself Iron.

• 1:47:30Rich Roll?

  Iron?

• 1:47:31Speaker 01

  Myself Iron, yeah.

• 1:47:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah?

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, for, yeah, it was a good idea.

• 1:47:35Rich Roll?

  I like that.

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, just matched.

• 1:47:38Rich Roll?

  And then you have a website?

• 1:47:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have a website as well, Ronnie, all, all one. That's Ronnie Schildknecht.ch. Yeah. And, yeah, you all can join me and follow me.

• 1:47:50Rich Roll?

  Cool.

• 1:47:50Speaker 01

  My journey.

• 1:47:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, excellent. All right, man. Well, best of luck.

• 1:47:54Speaker 01

  Thanks for your time.

• 1:47:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah, thanks again, man.

• 1:47:56Speaker 01

  Thanks. Cheers.

• 1:47:57Rich Roll?

  Peace. Plants.