Moment 84 - VP Of META Explains How To Get Exactly What You Want: Nicola Mendelsohn

In these ‘Moment’ episodes of my podcast, I’ll be selecting my favourite moments from previous episodes of The Diary Of A CEO. In this moment, Nicola Mendelsohn CBE talks about the need to bring your whole self to work. Allowing the space and culture within companies for people to be who they are and know what matters to them leads people to becoming higher performers. She discusses the importance of understanding your core skills and strengths and having an informal ‘board of advisers’ to help you create a stronger vision of yourself. But, while it is crucial to ask for what you want, Nicola believes that it is just as important to do your homework on your career and know what truly matters to you, as no one else is going to do it for you. Listen to the full episode here - https://g2ul0.app.link/FaUcchlb2ub Nicola: https://www.instagram.com/nicolamen/?hl=en https://twitter.com/nicolamen?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor Get Your Diary Here: https://g2ul0.app.link/WJconj0g2ub Watch the Episodes On Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/TheDiaryOfACEO/videos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Steven Bartlett?

  I want to get some advice from you about work.

• 0:07Steven Bartlett?

  I know most people listening to this will really be in awe of the career you've had and trying to take some actionable, more actionable advice from this conversation as to how they can have a similar career, how they can be successful in whatever endeavour they're pursuing. When I was thinking about some of the advice you've given previously, one of the points you'd said is about really understanding your core strengths and your core skills. Why does that matter and how does one do that? And what does it mean to understand your core skills and strengths?

• 0:39Speaker 01

  I think it's about understanding what you enjoy. I think it starts there. And then whether you're playing what you're intrinsically good at in with those areas as well. Because actually, sometimes people are good at things but don't enjoy it. And so ultimately, that will not make you as fulfilled or as happy as you can be. Often, you're not the best judge of yourself. And so finding people around you, either family and friends, but actually also work colleagues, that can start to say, what is it about me that's good? What is it about me that maybe isn't so good? Help me, help me understand those things better. And then you start to create a stronger version of yourself or vision of yourself that you can then come work through.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  I've always, through my career, had my own sort of board of advisors. It's an informal thing. When I'm doing different things where I need a different point of view or perspective, I'll put people around me and ask them for advice, mentors, sponsors, you know, fashionable words that get used. But it's really people that perhaps are a couple of years ahead of you or older that kind of done these things before to learn from and to be inspired by and to change them around as well. I think those things, those things help.

• 1:56Steven Bartlett?

  What are your core skills and strengths?

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Others will say, but I think it's around that I start, that I lead with empathy. And that I'm, it really matters to me to understand who the people are that are, that I'm working with and what motivates them. And, and what doesn't. And to have a different style that can work with, with each of them to motivate them to be the very best that they can be. I'm always looking to understand that. I think I set pretty clear deliverables and expectations and I really spend the time with, with my core team. I, I absolutely believe in the frequency of a regular one-to-one meeting where we can learn, you know, to get those constant updates where I can give advice. But I've always got the clear north star. I've always got written what I think the deliverables will be.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  I'm not afraid to pivot and to change my mind if the, I see evidence and data. There's a poster at Wall, data wins arguments. I, I like that because I think it's, it's true that you can really look at something and know. And then if something isn't going well, to stop it and to have the humility to say, we tried something, it didn't work. And then to be able to, to move forwards and to role model that as well and not to be afraid to say, I did that and it didn't go so well. Let's now go and do, let's go and do something else. Those are a few of the things, others will add other things, I'm sure. Also, you know, to have some fun along the way, I think that's really important. I think when I first started work, there was this thing about work's really serious and it is serious and it matters.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  But you spend your most amount of time with the people that you work with. And one of my other favorite posters is that meetings are made for laughter. And so sometimes if you can just take the tension out and just break, break it a little bit, I think that's something that, that's important as well.

• 3:43Steven Bartlett?

  I've heard you give the advice that it's important to bring your whole self to work as well.

• 3:49Steven Bartlett?

  I think that is some type, that is also kind of counter narrative in a sense that people think they should just bring their professional self to work or their boss self to work. Why is it important to bring your whole self to work?

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Because if you're trying to be, you know, other things, you'll just not do a very good job. And if people don't know what else is going on in your life, I mean, look at all the things that we've talked about today. If people didn't know I had, you know, I was dealing with health issues at different times, and maybe my performance wasn't so good at that time, then I'm going to be judged unfairly for where I am in that time, as opposed to let's just have an honest conversation. I'm old enough now, I'm 50, but I remember some of the days of the women that came before that would leave a handbag and a coat on the back of a chair to pretend they were still in the office, when actually they popped out to go and pick up the children or do something, but were scared to show that because it was a sign of weakness if you were actually being a mum.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but there are still companies where that sort of behaviour is happening. And so the fact that we can be in 2022 and it's still taboo to talk about a disease that you have, or it still can be in certain companies taboo to talk about the fact that maybe your parent isn't well or your child isn't, I mean, that's crazy. So allowing the space and the culture within companies to be who you are and to know the things that matter to you ultimately allows people to be higher performers, which ultimately means that they'll do better in their jobs and they'll be happier in their lives.

• 5:17Steven Bartlett?

  And do you think that's, there's a real responsibility for the leaders at the top of the organisation to lead by example there?

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I absolutely do. And again, here's where the data wins arguments, because if you have more diverse boards at the tops of companies, you have more successful companies. And I do think there's an element where you bring, where you don't have group think and you have different people around the table, it brings in some of these, these types of ways of being and ways that form a culture. Culture is formed top down and bottom up, but so much of it is from the cues of the leaders at the top as well. So showing that vulnerability, being so open, bringing your whole self allows other people to do so as well.

• 5:59Steven Bartlett?

  And your career is a real testament to this next piece of advice, which is about asking for what you want. People don't do that either, because people think they should take what they're given, but having the

• 6:15Steven Bartlett?

  I don't want to use the word courage, but because it doesn't seem like quite the right word, but asking for what you want is scary for a lot of people and it there's a lot of threat and risk associated with that. How has that been important in your career?

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it is, but I think it's also about doing your homework, knowing what, knowing what matters to you, knowing what's important, questioning if these are the things that matter to you and these are the opportunities that you want. This is this pay rise that you think you should have. I mean, my first couple of pay rises, I just said, thanks, that's great. I mean, that's terrible, right? I had absolutely no idea of, of what my own worth was. And so I just said, thank you. I never went in in those early pay rise conversations, once a year reviews to think about, was I happy on the

• 7:08Speaker 01

  accounts that I was on? I just said, thanks. I would not give that advice to anybody. I just wouldn't. I think that's a terrible thing to do. I think you should know those things. And then the onus is on you to make sure you do the homework on your career because nobody else is going to do that. And also to not assume that people know what you want either, because sometimes you do know what you want and you're sat there going, I hope they're going to suggest it and not to say it. People don't do that because they are scared. And again, I go, what's the worst that can happen? You can ask for it and they'll say no. And then you've got a judgment call. Do I want to stay in a place that said no? Or are they giving me a trajectory for what I need to do in order to get there? Or actually, is this a wake up call to say, actually, maybe I should look at something different?

• 7:53Steven Bartlett?

  What do you wish you'd said in those pay rise conversations?

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Not just thank you, but I've been out and I've looked at the market and I understand now that my value is this. And these are all the things that I've done that I'm really proud of and that I've been successful. And these were the KPIs that I think that you set me and thus this is what the equation should be. And then probably there'd be a bit of a negotiation, but at least I'd be in with a start, right? Whereas I had, I was just like, thanks.

• 8:21Steven Bartlett?

  What if your boss turns around and goes, you're out of your mind, get out of here Nicola?

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Then I think you have to go, why do you think that? Because if you have the data to say, well, other places don't feel that. And here's all the reasons why I feel passionate and proud of what I'm doing. Show me the path that gets me there. And so if it's a yearly pay conversation, maybe look to see if you could do something in six months or set out other criteria in terms of what matters and what's important.

• 8:45Steven Bartlett?

  A quote from you. The times I've grown the most have been the times where I felt most nervous. The times that I thought I wasn't going to be able to do it.

• 8:56Steven Bartlett?

  Those growth moments throughout your career where you felt most nervous.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, well, we've talked about them. The first, each of the firsts of the jobs, I think, were definitely.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Another one was when I took on my first position, if you like, in the industry, which was when I was asked to be the president of Whackl in the UK, which is the Women in Advertising Communications of London club. It's a hundred year old networking club for women in the industry that's gone through its own metamorphosis. And so suddenly I'd gone from being Nicola in, you know, just in an agency to having this position across the industry to inspire women, to bring women together and to chart what it means to be part of a women's club in this era and what needs there might be. And so, yeah, I practised, I prepped, I really thought long and hard. A lot of the things that we talked about, I went and met all the past presidents. I got the advice from them as to what they wanted.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  I talked to existing members what they wanted. So I really did my homework so that when I came to that moment of setting out my vision for the year as to what I was going to do, I felt prepped. I was still nervous. It's good to have those nerves, right? But yeah, do the prep and I think it helps.

• 10:11Steven Bartlett?

  Those nerves, a lot of people, they tell themselves a story about those nerves. The story being, I'm an impostor.

• 10:18Steven Bartlett?

  And I, imposter syndrome seems to be such a frequently asked question of me and from this audience is like, how do you deal with that? People think, I think they think that that feeling of nerves, which is that I think that they're reading into feeling like an imposter, is sign to retreat and to get back into comfort, get back into certainty.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  No, for me, it's, it's a rush of adrenaline. It's the, it's the moment before you do something to go, all right, you've done the prep, you've got this, it's good just to kind of get ready. It's like a getting ready moment and then you go. And then it kind of helps, it helps you go there. Because I think if perhaps it doesn't happen, then maybe you're not going to be on your A game and maybe that's not a good thing.