Who Are The New Players in Syria? w\ Charles Lister | EYES ON PODCAST

Today we're joined by Syria analyst for the Middle Eastern Institute Charles Lister to talk what comes next in Syria. Find Charles here:⬇️ https://x.com/Charles_Lister?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor https://www.syriaweekly.com/ Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Find Jason here ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.social Find Andy Milburn here:⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 https://amilburn.substack.com/ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.social https://open.substack.com/pub/amilburn/p/journal-of-a-plague-year?utm_source=app-post-stats-page&r=emo6q&utm_medium=ios Find Mick Mulroy here:⬇️ https://fogbow.com/ https://www.loboinstitute.org/ https://x.com/MickMulroy?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/ https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.social #syria #hts Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:28Speaker 02

  Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Eyes On. Today, we have as a guest Charles Lister, who, the best way to let him present his credentials is to hear him talk about the Middle East. How's that for a setup? But, you know, not just in Twitterland, but across, you know, across the media. Charles is a go-to guy for a kind of a balanced view of what is going on. And so, we're looking forward to this conversation because there is plenty going on, right? Charles, where do we start? How about Syria? Maybe we can wrap that up in the next two minutes.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, let's do it. That's, that sounds easy enough to me. Yeah, I mean, my God, where to start? I mean, everything, everything has changed in the past couple of weeks after more than 13 years of...

• 2:22Speaker 03

  I'm debilitating civil conflict, you know, in which, you know, the Turks, the Americans, the Europeans, the Arab states, the Iranians, the Russians, the Syrians, the Israelis have all been engaged over Syria and in and amidst all of that, the Syrian regime just didn't seem to be budging. We saw the precipitous collapse of that regime in the space of days. And so that has totally transformed, obviously it's transformed Syria, but it's transformed the Middle East. It's a big loss for Russia. It's a huge loss for the Iranians. And it frankly changes the map of the Middle East in terms of Iran's loss. And then on the

• 3:07Speaker 03

  other hand, the collapse of the Assad regime has created a vacuum, I guess, an opportunity for the actors who changed the equation to to fill that vacuum. And right now, we have a 100 mile an hour political transition underway in Damascus, which right now is being led by a group called Hayat Tahrir Shoham, which technically speaking is still a designated terrorist organization by the US and the United Nations. So obviously that raises a ton of challenging, challenging questions as to, you know, where that's heading. I'm sure we can get into, you know, what that looks like and what this group's been

• 3:46Speaker 03

  doing and has it changed since it was designated many years ago. But right now, in the last few days, we have had a surge of diplomatic and intel visits from just about every Arab government in the region, from a bunch of European countries, the United States, we, I should say, forget my British accent, by the way, I am American. You know, we as the US have been indirectly in communication with this group despite designating it. You know, everyone's trying to get in on the act to try to guide and to control and to influence what happens next. And of course, the stakes there are are huge. Optimistically, it'll be a new challenge.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  Chapter for Syria, it'll be a slightly messy and chaotic one, but hopefully stable or somewhat stable or more stable than what we've seen. But on the other hand, if it doesn't, and if it goes wrong, we're, you know, turning page number one of a of a second major civil conflict. Uh, that's the stakes. Uh, if it turns into that, the Iranians will leap right back in again. The Russians will be there to stay. Uh, and we'll be back to back to square one in many respects. So, um, yeah, huge stakes, unprecedented developments. Um, and incidentally, just before I stop this, I should say, you know, Syrian people have lived under tyranny um, of of the Assad family for nearly fifty four years. So most Syrians alive today literally know nothing but

• 5:17Speaker 03

  the rule of the of the Assad's and it genuinely has been tyrannical throughout that more than half a century. So we should also just spare a moment for all of the Syrians who have suffered so much, half a million dead, a hundred and fifty thousand people who were missing. Um, uh, now that the prisons have been emptied, it can now be assumed that most of those missing people are also dead. Because they haven't come out uh, in the numbers that some people might have hoped. Um, three hundred and forty verified chemical weapons attacks, eighty two thousand barrel bombs, you know, you name it, I can string off the list. Um, unreal levels of of violence and and suffering.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, certainly I in the the news coming out of, uh, what's the name of that prison in in Palms begins with S, the?

• 6:05Speaker 03

  Uh, Sednaiah, it's in Damascus, but yeah, Sednaiah is the big infamous one.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, we is has been horrific and that the uh, just what the regime has been up to and as far as oppressing its own population, I think has been an eye opener for many in the West, of course, not for Syrians. And so, you know, rather than, I know we could speculate forever about whether HTS has changed its spots, whether this is going to be an inclusive administration. But I, you know, upfront, I'd like to ask you, what are the initial indications? I mean, just in your opinion, we won't hold you to these, but, you know, I mean, think back to when the Taliban,

• 6:49Speaker 02

  those, when Taliban moved back into Kabul and there was talk about, well, you know, maybe Taliban 2-0 is different. But we did see indications almost right off the bat that, that it wasn't a lot different. And it seems that though, that we, that we are seeing genuine, if Aleppo is anything to go by. And certainly, initial stages Damascus was seeing at least an effort by HTS to show that it is being an include, you know, an inclusive administration, pulling people in from outside.

• 7:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Inclusive in every way, I guess is what I mean.

• 7:23Speaker 03

  Right. Or at least more inclusive than anything that came before it. I mean, I think that the thing here is,

• 7:30Speaker 03

  it's complicated. I'll start by saying, you know, some people have raised the Afghanistan, you know, the Taliban kind of parallel. I would say that the difference with the Taliban is we were negotiating with the Taliban's political office in Doha. And it was an exiled political office. And it was an office of politicos, not guys with guns. And I think one of the big lessons out of that, and frankly, the same with Hamas, you know, in the situation since October the 7th. Same thing, the Hamas political office was not connected to Yahya Sinwar and his plans in Gaza.

• 8:11Speaker 03

  Same as the Taliban political office was not engaged with Sirajuddin Haqqani and the, and the military leadership of the Taliban. And so in both of those scenarios, the words and the rhetoric and the plans and the promises that we were hearing from political offices abroad didn't match up with the developments on the ground. Now, in, in the Syrian case, HTS, you know, yeah, it actually does. Does have a small political office, but outside of the country, but um but really what we're hearing and what we've consistently been hearing is from the guys with the guns on the ground. So I think to an extent, we can, we can read more into their actions, predating these recent developments over the last couple of weeks and it.

• 8:52Speaker 03

  It should also go, you know, a lot of people have sort of not been paying attention to this group for a long time. And I think that's sort of part of the problem because some of the things we've seen them say and talk about and some of the things we've seen them do over the last couple of weeks haven't come out of nowhere.

• 9:11Speaker 03

  So, yeah, I can, I mean, it helps maybe just to do a little bit of history. So, I mean, this group was first established in Syria in late 2011. At the time, it was secretly the Syrian wing of ISIS, or at the time, the Islamic State in Iraq. It didn't publicly declare itself as such, but that was how it was established.

• 9:34Speaker 03

  Over the first couple of years of its existence, it essentially behaved quite differently to AQI or the Islamic State. And gradually sort of distanced itself from that brand. When ISIS and its leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, tried to publicly declare that, actually, in fact, everyone, this is us. This group, Jabot al-Nusra, is actually the Islamic State. It led to a total break whereby this group, Nusra, which later became HTS, declared itself an affiliate of al-Qaeda and not ISIS. And ended up actually in full-scale hostilities with ISIS going forward after that point.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  So for a few years, two, three years, this group, Nusra, was avowedly and publicly al-Qaeda's affiliate in Syria.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  That relationship then later broke down. Essentially, Nusra calculated that the only way it could not only survive in Syria but to thrive would be to embed deeper within the wider Syrian revolution. And the only way it was going to be able to do that was to shake off these, what it called, external ties. And so in 2016, that was the big breakpoint. We saw Nusra rebrand itself a couple of times in six months. And publicly proclaimed to have stepped those external ties. You know, they did interviews with CNN and everyone at that time saying, you know, this is what, this is now who we are. We've changed, blah, blah, blah. At that point, not very many people frankly believed them.

• 11:08Speaker 03

  I thought it was all a ploy to fool the Syrian people into, you know, lending the group some more credibility and acceptance. But over time, this group, HTS as it became known, has shifted its behaviour. Now, I guess a few qualifications here. They remain a very conservative Islamist movement, like, no question. They haven't suddenly become secular nationalists. What, what, I would say what has changed is that they don't believe that their beliefs need to be enforced on the people. So they kind of accept that they are one of many strands of Syrian society. And whilst I think they, they believe they should be a significant

• 11:50Speaker 03

  player within that, I don't think they, they believe in the idea that everyone has to just embrace their vision. The key thing is, they remain as dictatorial and autocratic as they've ever been. For me, that's the main concern. They're not a terrorist organisation in the sense that they're going to seek to, you know, level the Twin Towers in New York or, or anything like that anymore. That, that vision has genuinely gone.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  They're not a democratic organisation.

• 12:16Speaker 03

  But they're definitely not democratic, although quite frankly, I mean, the word democracy has, has lots of challenges in the wider region too. And not just for this group. I mean, I was part of a A big multilateral convening of government officials just a few days ago to respond to what's happening in Syria. And it was basically the consensus across the room, including Americans and Europeans, that we should not be pushing the word democracy in Syria. There are other ways to push for representation and, you know, whatever that don't involve that word. But yes, I take your, I take your, your point. They're definitely not democratic and they're certainly not liberal either. Early signs are good. They've embraced the Christian

• 12:58Speaker 03

  community in Aleppo. They've sent sort of dignitaries and emissaries to Syria's other minority communities, the Alawites on the Mediterranean coast, the Druze in the south and in the centre, the Ismaili community as well. So they're sending the right signals. But there's a lot of doubt or a lot of concern or fear amongst particularly those minorities as to whether or not this group HTS will be able to sustain this kind of good behaviour forever. And I think it's just an open question. The leader of HTS, he's a fairly young guy, he's forty. Abu Muhammad Al-Jalani, he comes from a fairly elite family from Syria. His

• 13:41Speaker 03

  surname is Al-Shara, which is one of the big political elite families in Syria. And he's smart and willing to be very pragmatic. And he is totally dead serious about being the kingmaker in Syria. And I think a lot of the pragmatism that we've seen from the group so far is driven by his, like, absolute first to be the new leader. And, you know, right now, as we're recording this, he's currently driving the Turkish intel chief around Damascus in a Mercedes, dressed in a suit. So, you know, he's capable of playing the game. And for now, the, the, the run to Damascus by all these governments, including to an extent our own, albeit indirectly for now, shows that what he's doing is getting

• 14:24Speaker 03

  all of our attention and getting the right kind of attention, not the worst.

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• 15:11Speaker 00

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a

• 15:53Speaker 00

  parasitic infection, common cold, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extenture. Learn more at extenture.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 16:12Speaker 01

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• 16:39Speaker 02

  You quite rightly called me on the use of the term democratic or democracy. It's just got a...

• 16:51Speaker 02

  A bad aura about it, the way that that we in the United States have tried to impose that term. I think probably inclusive or in some way representative is is probably what I would guess the US administration is looking for. Are you getting the feeling that, I mean, it's the problem is that we're the tail end of administration. So it almost is meaningless to say, well, at least the US administration is taking a pragmatic approach and not just rolling in going, hit this guy's a terrorist, look, you know, we arrested him.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  But I, do you see the the connection with the connection with the Turks?

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Can you talk a little bit about some of the implications of that? Both, you know, within Syria, the possible implications for the Russians, return of the Russians and and also for the West?

• 17:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, so all good, all good questions. So, I mean, prior to these recent developments, HTS was basically only present in the northwest of Syria, which placed it, you know, right in a sensitive place, right on the Turkish border. In the pocket of territory it controlled, which represented about four to five percent of Syria, there were five and a half million people, which is about a quarter of the population. So huge number of people proportionally in a very small corner of the country. That gave HTS a real sort of significant leverage vis a vis Turkey. Turkey's biggest fear for years has been a new flow of Syrian refugees into Turkey.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  You know, domestically in Turkey, there is very few, if any, issues that unify the entire political spectrum from left to far right. The only one that really does is the refugees. There is now a unified consensus and has been for a few years that Syrian refugees need to return. And so the fear of new Syrian refugees fleeing into Turkey from Syria meant that HTS's role as the kind of de facto governor of this corner of the country with a very significant number of people in it, gave it a great deal of kind of leverage.

• 19:13Speaker 03

  For sort of for want of a better way of describing it, HTS's governance in northwestern Syria, and it had some issues, was more stable than the governance offered by other actors across northern Syria. Of all of the ones that Turkey was keeping an eye on, the governance was most stable in the HTS region. In other words, you know, much less conflict, much less, you know, displacement, people movement towards the border, much less drug smuggling and organized crime, and much less terrorism.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  They actually cracked out a pod on the Islamic State and...

• 19:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I mean, that was that was one of the things. So, you know, ironically, given this group's history, it's sort of an open secret for those of us who've been working this far for a while. HTS has been, has been, sorry, privately messaging towards the US government for the last about two and a half years, that it wanted to be America's security partner in northwestern Syria. You know, sort of a wild suggestion, giving its designation, but it was doing that because through self-interest but also significant ideological differences, HTS has successfully defeated al-Qaeda and ISIS in this very significant corner of the country where both groups had previously maintained a significant presence.

• 20:33Speaker 03

  So it had very successfully done that. And yeah, the messages were being sent indirectly through intermediaries to to the US government, both under the Trump administration and more recently under Biden, that this group wanted to be an American security partner. That, that, you know, gives you an idea as to the ambition of the leader of this group, Jolani. You know, he really wanted to to transform how this group was seen. But yeah, again, from a Turkish perspective, this group offered some stability, but also some problems. HTS is also designated technically as a terrorist group in Turkey. So the Turkish Foreign Ministry, for example, hasn't been able to deal with HTS. The relationship goes through their intelligence organization, MIT, MIT.

• 21:16Speaker 03

  And that's the that's the relationship. That's why the MIT chief right now is in Damascus, meeting with the leader. Leadership is because it can't be a foreign ministry relationship whilst that designation in Turkey remains the same. So it's it's complicated. You know militarily HTS has rebuilt itself into a way more disciplined and capable force than it had been before. Some people have asked the question as to whether or not that was a result of of Turkish military support. You know, I've worked on this group very, very closely since it first was established. I haven't seen any evidence that the Turkish state has been backing its military capabilities.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Oh, really? So no trainers or or anything?

• 21:58Speaker 03

  Not that I'm aware of. No, I mean HTS has benefited from a number of things which has allowed it to do what it's done. I mean, first of all, and you guys have kept a super close eye and been engaged on the Ukraine file. So they have learned a lot from what's been happening in Ukraine in terms of drone warfare. And one of the major kind of tactical differences we saw on the battlefield over the last couple of weeks when HTS launched its offensive was that it had established an entire new from scratch drone fleet. They called it Khataybal Shaheen, the Falcons Brigade. And most of these drones were like indigenously manufactured using three D printers and loaded up with small mortar munitions and and other things that they already had access to.

• 22:42Speaker 03

  But the complex, you know, they'd launch them in waves, but then they'd have small ISR quadcopters in the air at the same time to to to, you know, detect and to guide targets, complex, a kind of complex operation. But from what I gather, most of that was learned from Ukraine. There have been some rumors that Ukrainian military intelligence has had a small presence in northern Syria. I know I've written a bit about this in the past. There have been a few sort of mysterious attacks on Russian targets that some Ukrainian media has claimed were were Ukrainian operations. No real way to a hundred percent prove that, but certainly there's been some connectivity in terms of lessons learned.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, that that's what I was heading on on the particularly on the drone piece. And I'm aware of, you know, the rumors on the Ukrainian side that they helped HTS and they vested interest not just against Russians, but against Iranians, of course, who have been supplying the shotheads. And impossible to prove, but but if if they didn't get direct help, that's truly an impressive innovation. I mean, to yeah, you can learn techniques from watching videos or YouTube, but the way they have set it up is is something that

• 23:59Speaker 02

  replicates what's happening in Ukraine quite closely, you know, the

• 24:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 24:03Speaker 02

  To your point, having working fleets of drones, each with a different mission, but in consonance, you know, the commander control of that and the planning of that has been impressive.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  I'm sorry. Also, the use of, I mean, it's hard to tell because the Syrian army could just kind of broke, but but the but the use of armored vehicles and armored vehicles with small groups of infantry. Again, I don't want to read too much into that, but they're certainly not inept when it comes to tactics.

• 24:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, there's no question. I mean, so they also they they constructed a fleet of their own armored vehicles, you know, they have model numbers and model names, and they've been building these for years and storing them away in cave systems in Idlib in the northwest just to prepare for, you know, a scenario just like this. Yeah, at the same time, they have they built a number of what they call special forces units. One, which was very well known before all of this, called the Red Band, Saab al-Hamra, which is which was a unit that until now had been used for like raids behind enemy lines, which they would do periodically to kind of remind the regime they were still around and still capable of doing things.

• 25:21Speaker 03

  But the one that made the real difference was they had established a whole new unit dedicated only to nighttime operations. So it was about 500 men strong. Every single one of them had night vision thermal scopes on assault rifles, RPGs, anti-tank guided missile systems, and

• 25:42Speaker 03

  But that basically turned the tide. It meant that for the first time in 13 years of war, the opposition, quote unquote, could fight at night in a way that the Syrian regime still couldn't. The Syrian army had no unit that was equipped uniformly with night vision. And so we had, we saw ourselves in this place where the daytime fighting for Aleppo would be really tough. And then at night, HTS would just advance because they could see, they could see in the darkness and, and the Syrian regime just simply couldn't. For 13 years of war in Syria, everyone went to sleep at night and then started fighting the next morning at daybreak. So that was a really big change too. They've established a military academy a couple of years ago in Idlib,

• 26:24Speaker 03

  quite professional with graduation ceremonies. And yet it's not just fancy imagery, but they're being trained by defected military officers. And then the last thing to mention is there have been a bunch of foreign fighter units in the northwest of Syria, mostly Uzbeks, Kazakhs, some Turks and some,

• 26:50Speaker 03

  I forget, there was another, and Uighurs. And they are all former soldiers and most of them former SOF guys. And they set up what they call private military companies to basically train for a fee, any fighting unit in northwest in Syria who was, who would be, who would be willing to pay for that service. So Malhamma Tactical was the first one of these. And they kind of set up this brand of providing more specialized training. And they've played a really big role over the last four years in, in creating much more effective, much more disciplined, much more capable forces. And meanwhile, the Syrian regime just stagnated. They didn't add any new capabilities.

• 27:34Speaker 03

  If anything, they fragmented more from within and decayed. The one thing the Russians did do was give them access to very simple FPV drones. But they used them as a terror tactic, not as a military, you know, military capability. They just launched them into people's homes to intimidate. So, yeah, I mean, there was a total imbalance played out over the last four years in terms of who was increasing their capabilities and who was decaying. And I think that, you know, really dramatically played out on the, on the battlefield.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  Charles, I have a question. Ballpark size, how big is HTS? Like manpower?

• 28:12Speaker 03

  That is a good question. Full-time fighters, fifteen to eighteen thousand. They were fighting this as part of a wider coalition. There were nine other groups involved. And I would say those nine other groups combined probably doubled that figure. So thirty to forty thousand, roughly as a sort of total fighting force, which as you look at it, taking over an entire country is quite remarkable. And I think just says a lot also about the extent to which the regime just collapsed. They just completely crumbled in the face of a challenge. And it also showed that Assad had no real loyalty. You know, most of the Syrian military conscripts, they're there only because they have to be.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  You'd be disappeared into the prison and detention and execution system if you tried to skip conscription. So most of these guys, when they came up against a more capable fighting force, and they saw their front lines just peeling back, they quit. You know, many of them were negotiating with HTS two days ahead of their front lines being met. And they either negotiated safe exits or surrenders or defections. So that's how the lines moved so quickly down the map as they did.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Do you see the Russians getting their way back into Syria? I mean, it was a, it was a complete evacuation that I understand, even from, from Tardis. So, but, but already, and I don't know if this is true, but there are rumors that they're negotiating with the Turks and in Doha to try and get back in.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Which puts the Turks in a powerful position and a curious position as a NATO nation too.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a tricky one. Yeah, I think the Turks hold the keys to this. So far HTS has been negotiating with the Russians directly, which again is kind of an amazing about turn from the Russian posture before. So they've been talking directly until now HTS has, I'm told, been willing to allow the Russians to keep both their naval and their airbase on the Mediterranean, which in many ways is totally remarkable considering both of those facilities have been used to both indiscriminately and also with precision strike civilians for the last nearly 10 years.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  So personally, I find it hard to grasp that that pragmatic stance will last forever. I imagine the reason why we're seeing that quote unquote pragmatic stance is because Turkey has, is trying to make its own arrangements with the Russians. I mean, we've all known that throughout the war, since the war in Ukraine in particular, the Turks have embraced more of a hedging strategy. They don't want to fully break their relationship with the Russians for a number of other geopolitical and economic reasons, but they also don't want to fully break their relationship with the US and with NATO. And so they've hedged and I think what we're seeing here is a similar hedging strategy.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  For Russia, that Mediterranean access is one of their biggest geostrategic gains in a decade plus, if not longer, they will not want to be losing that. If there is a prospect for them staying, they'll be surrounded. They're certainly not going to be surrounded by friendly partners. And so I suspect at the moment the Turks are trying to figure out some kind of awkward arrangement that would allow them to stay, albeit with a much lesser, much lesser presence and a much lesser force posture.

• 31:50Speaker 03

  But honestly, I think it remains to be seen. All bets are off as to, as to where that goes. The Turks can influence, but they can't totally control the decision making of HTS and these other factions in the area.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's interesting to see elsewhere in Syria, the, you know, as far as the SDF and the SNA clashes. Now, I know Al Monitor published an article yesterday or the day before saying that the Kurds had, the SDF had pulled back across the Euphrates for a man-bitch under US pressure. But actually, that was just, that was just, um, uh, the, you know, the, the timing, of course, was no coincidence. But from the US standpoint, they were just enforcing a prior agreement with the Turks. Where they'd assure the Turks that the SDF wouldn't go west of the, the Euphrates. But I, I would imagine from a US diplomatic standpoint, it's, you know, time to be courting the Turks.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  And I know this discussion of not just what's happening in Turkey with the SDF, SNA, but also sales of F-35s and such. See how that continues.

• 33:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, and especially through a transition into, into the Trump administration, which I don't think frankly, anyone really knows where, where the incoming administration is going to stand on any of these issues. But yeah, certainly in the last six months or so, um, the US, this administration has been plowing energy into trying to recover some of the relationship with, with Ankara. Um, and yes, talk around the F-16s and the F-35s, uh, talk around arrangements with Ukraine, but also considerable talk around Syria. Um, and you know, you raise a really important issue, which from a US perspective is a huge crisis right now, which is what's happening in the northeast of the country.

• 33:40Speaker 03

  You know, we have nearly a thousand troops on the ground, plus contractors, uh, in a string of military bases alongside the SDF. You know, in that area, there's an ISIS resurgence, very well underway already. Um, and then there is this Turkish Kurdish hostility. You know, throughout the entirety of the Syrian crisis, which started in 2011, the Turks have never been able to act against the Kurds without getting a tacit green light from Damascus and from Russia. For the first time in the last couple of weeks, the Turks smell blood, the SDF is more vulnerable than it's ever been.

• 34:20Speaker 03

  And they have no one to stop them from going in, us included. We will not stop them. We haven't stopped them before and we won't do this time. And it's an absolutely kind of existential life or death moment for the SDF right now. And if the SDF breaks, we leave, very simple. And if that then happens, ISIS has an enormous opportunity to recover because frankly speaking, without, without the US on the ground. The SDF is actually not nearly as strong an actor as they might have looked on the outside. Anytime that the Turks have intervened, they've just crumbled. So there's a lot of reason to be worried. General Carrillo, CENTCOM commander, was out there a few days ago.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  It was essentially him who, who sealed up that ceasefire that you just mentioned around Manbij. Although I would say within thirty six hours, that ceasefire broke down.

• 35:13Speaker 03

  We had more fighting again there today, but the SDF is in a really tricky spot.

• 35:20Speaker 03

  We should sort of remind, I guess, your listeners that the SDF was established as an umbrella. To try to make it look more representative of the societies within which it was operating. I mean, they are Kurdish dominated and dominated by a particular faction of the Kurds. And that was a problem. The key to keeping the SDF representative is the fact that they contain sizable grouping of Arab tribal factions. Most of them were former anti-Assad opposition groups. Most of them have quit the SDF in the last few days. Inspired by the fact that their former brethren on the other side of the country have toppled the regime.

• 36:00Speaker 03

  And I think angered for a long time by the fact that the SDF never really was wholeheartedly opposed to Assad. So we're watching the Arabs peel away right now, and that presents a really significant challenge. Big concession from the SDF today was that they agreed to allow the green revolutionary flag to be flown from public buildings in their territory. They have always outright refused to do that. In fact, they've labeled that flag a terrorist flag in the past. So huge concessions speak to the real weakness and vulnerability that they that they're presented with at the moment. But without serious US diplomatic intervention, and of course, Secretary Blinken's been an anchor,

• 36:41Speaker 03

  trying to renegotiate these ceasefires, trying to convince the Turks to back off. Um, without that diplomacy working, the clock's ticking on the US presence in northeastern Syria, and you know, ISIS will be watching all of this with glee. Uh, expecting, you know, more vacuums and more opportunities to to add to their resurgence.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Because from a, you know, you mentioned the Turkish, kind of the, the

• 37:11Speaker 02

  the unity that Turks have in opposing, you know, the influx of Syrian refugees or wanting them to return. And I, and I would guess the other thing that unites them is their fear of the Kurds, their, their their desire to have a buffer zone all along their border. And I know from Turkish friends, they feel that the US has kind of betrayed them in its support, or, or betrayed is perhaps a strong word, but being disingenuous in its support of the SDF and claiming it to be something, you know, not anti-Turk, etc. And of course, you mentioned the SDF's an umbrella organization within that umbrella

• 37:56Speaker 02

  are definitely organizations that are, that have attacked Turks and will continue to attack Turks and then, and so it's, I guess where I'm heading on this, it's, it's hard to see now that the US has

• 38:13Speaker 02

  as, as, you know, pro-Codish though I am, it's hard to see that the US has strong interest in backing the SDF in a confrontation with the Turks in the northeast.

• 38:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think if the trend lines continue and the SDF continues to thin out to what it was originally before it was called the SDF, which was, yeah, the Kurdish, the PYD, the political party, and then the YPG and YPJ, the male and female militias. Then the US is going to be increasingly, I think, unable frankly to justify continued diplomatic interventions against Turkish aggression. I mean, this was sort of the, I mean, I both understand why the US ended up working with these Kurdish groups. I mean, to an extent, it was kind of coincidental when US special forces were dropped into Mount Sinjar in northern Iraq.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  We just found ourselves alongside these Syrian Kurds. And they ended up being pretty good at what they were trying to do at that time. And so we just naturally extended that cooperation across the border into Syria. So I understand that options were limited and we found ourselves with the option that we did. But the sort of the original sin was that we insisted at the time, this group is not who you say they are, Turkey. You know, all you needed to do was Google CIA World Factbook or State Department Counterterrorism Designations. And we ourselves said on official US government websites that this group was the Syrian wing of the PKK. So, and the PKK is designated here in the US too. So, you know, we sort of kicked ourselves in our own feet at the time.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  We set up a line of argument that was just frankly a lie. And we've continued to push that with the Turks. The problem is that, you know, our leader, sorry, our leader, our key partner and the leader of the SDF, Mazlum Abdi, is a longtime PKK veteran. He used to be a senior commander within TAC, which was a PKK, you know, wing that basically was responsible for behind enemy lines, urban bombings inside Turkish cities. So he may have changed over time, of course, and, you know, as you said at right at the beginning, leopards can change their spots. But by insisting that, oh, no, no, no, he never was that, and there's no way he could possibly be that now.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  We set up a line of argument that was never going to win with the Turks. And that's To an extent, it's a situation we've been able to balance until now, just about. But given the fact that the Arabs are starting to peel away and the revolutionary kind of anti Assad movement has gained steam again, the Kurds look kind of alone in the Northeast. Because their history with Assad went back way before 2011. They've always maintained more or less a neutral stance to the regime. And that's really hurt their credibility within the more kind of revolutionary anti regime circles.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  Only other thing I'd say here, just because it's interesting, is HTS, as controversial as it is, has been speaking directly.

• 41:23Speaker 00

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• 42:04Speaker 00

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• 42:53Speaker 03

  ...with the STF for the last week. And everything I've heard from sort of readouts from those calls on both sides has been it's been super constructive. They've both agreed they will not come to blows. They've both agreed that Syria needs to remain united, you know, sovereignty. So in other words, the Kurds won't split off. Um, and they they've agreed that there is no need for them to to sort of have their disagreements turn hostile. It's these Turkish factions in the north, the Syrian National Army, they're a real problem, quite frankly, they're very ill-disciplined, they're highly corrupt. And they were established to fight and kill the Kurds. That that is literally their modus operandi, it's the only reason why they exist.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  And um, whether or not Turkey's directing all of their actions right now, um, that's their mission. And uh, just as Turkey has an an open door to confront the Kurds, so do these groups. And I think they're proving very difficult to to restrain, but they're the complicating factor here.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Do they, does the S and A have, I mean, has H E S spoken to the S and A? I know you mentioned that the S and A is kind of an umbrella organization too, there's many sub factions, but um, it just occurs to me that whether we like it or not, whether H E S likes it or not, this S and A, the Turks are unlikely to stop their support for the S and A as long as the S D F is there.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  And so they're going to be a factor. And one would think that the Turks supporting both H E S and S and A would we would kind of allow things to correlate, but that's not necessarily the case, right?

• 44:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's it's difficult. I mean, you know, one, one is proving to be disciplined and now relatively de-escalatory and one is exactly the opposite, ill-disciplined and and very escalatory. And I think I I haven't got a clear readout on the extent to which Turkey's man is controlling the S and A's actions recently. Um. Turkey's been part of the ceasefire arrangements uh, quite willingly, from what I understand, but those ceasefires keep breaking and it's mostly due to the S and A. So I think that's a problem. In answer to your first question, yes, H H T S and the S and A have been in touch and contact. And one of the interesting things that happened right at the beginning of the offensive that led to all these dramatic changes was obviously the offensive was H T S led, it had nothing to do with the S.

• 45:12Speaker 03

  S N A itself, but few days in, once Aleppo city fell and it looked like the the H T S coalition had really gained some real momentum, the S N A joined in and sought to take a town called Tell Rifaat, which lies just north of north of Aleppo that was held by, actually jointly by the regime and and the and the Kurds. And um, that was kind of their attempt to try to get involved and join, join, join the fun, so to speak. A few S N A factions ended up going into Aleppo city, which obviously was captured by H T S and and its coalition. And that was where some real trouble started to break out. It wasn't actually much reported.

• 45:51Speaker 03

  But a bunch of S N A factions went into some of the northern districts of Aleppo and they basically just started looting, stealing stuff. A bunch of different reported abuses against local civilians and and women. And in a sort of strange ironic way, those communities, which incidentally had never been controlled by the opposition through the entirety of the crisis, they'd always been by the regime. They ended up calling H T S in to try and sort their problems out, so.

• 46:21Speaker 03

  And H T S did come in and did sort the problems out. They engaged in deadly clashes with S N A factions on a few occasions. In fact, they publicly executed two S N A factions who were S N A fighters who were accused of a rape. As a way of trying to send the message that this behaviour needed to stop. So, yes, they've been in touch, but that relationship is very, very awkward or very tense, at at least, if not potentially hostile. Which again, just underlines this point that I think, you know, while so many actors are trying to look towards ways to de-escalate and stabilise the situation in Syria, it is the S N A in the north that's really causing a real headache. And I think to an extent even for Turkey, causing a real headache to for that for that dynamic.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  Now, I know there's been a lot of coverage in in the media, particularly the Arab media, about the Israelis moving in beyond, you know, the nineteen seventy four line into the buffer zone beyond Golan. And even reports, I was on BBC Arabic the other day, and the other guest there was Syrian, who was insistent that they had moved within, you know, ten kilometers of Damascus. But what do you see any, I mean, I just reading, I'm not an Israeli expert, but reading the tea leaves there, it seems as though, you know, their their interests are very much, well, first of all, to destroy strategic weapons that could fall into the wrong hands. That's

• 47:51Speaker 02

  why, you know, they launched that massive air campaign, actually, this last week, that didn't, you know, kind of flew under the radar, no pun intended, right, as far as Western media, but it was their largest air campaign since seventy three. And then this move into Golan Heights, which has sparked a lot of, it seems to me, almost incommensurate media attention. They have always wanted, you know, they've always, they've always argued that holding the Golan Heights, holding that buffer zone would be important if things went to shit in Syria. I don't see they have an interest in advancing on Damascus at all, you know, they've got their hands full. But what what's your impression there?

• 48:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I mean, well, first of all, on the on the air campaign, I'm not, I get it, I get why they did it. You know, no matter who was taking control in Damascus, that they, from a purely self-interested perspective, don't want to see anyone else in control of all the air defense systems and jet aircraft and naval vessels and everything else. So and the big one was chemical weapons, by the way, there was a real, real fear a few days ago that the regime's sort of latent chemical weapons production sites had been had been captured. In fact, HTS even issued a public statement saying that that it was willing to and determined

• 49:15Speaker 03

  International community to deal with any potential chemical weapons discoveries. So first of all, I think that was the trigger. And then, of course, I think they just went on, went after everything that really mattered from a military perspective. So I, I get that bit. The, the, the land grab on the Golan is, is problematic. I mean, first of all, it's just a complete violation of a very longstanding, a very longstanding internationally mediated treaty. And second of all, it's, it's problematic because we're in a really delicate situation in Syria at the moment. And we are in a situation where more or less, at, at least, a very conservative Islamist armed group is, is in control.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  Um, and Israel is naturally a, a pretty big trigger uh for, for folks from, from that community, as they have been for most Syrians, who have essentially been a state, in a state of de facto war with Syria for decades. So I get Israel's actions from the air campaign. The land thing is real problem and um, uh, and everyone seems to recognize it inside Syria. Um, HTS issued an interesting statement about a day ago where they said, without naming the word Israel, um, they basically said, you know, no, no one in Syria speaks or wants any form of new conflict.

• 50:33Speaker 03

  You know, we've basically, we've had too much of that. We're looking to turn over a new chapter and we like kind of advise everybody else in the world to, to hear that or something. It was a clear message to the Israelis, like, back off, enough is enough. We can't control all of our constituents forever. Eventually, if we want to be the sort of transitional government, there may very well be an expectation from the Syrian people that there is a pushback against that. And that's a dangerous place for to be, um, because that would be a very unequal playing field, uh, and it would be very dangerous for, for Syria's new sort of status. So, um, so, yeah, I mean, my, my kind of advice, and, and I, I was speaking with, um,

• 51:13Speaker 03

  a few folks yesterday who are pretty well connected with the Israelis was like, okay, I get it. As a close, very close sort of Syria analyst who's in touch with all the people on the ground, I get it, but now it's time to. Sort of back off and just let let this stabilizing kind of dynamic take place. You do not want to jeopardize that. No one in the region wants more of a mess on their hands. This is a very delicate moment. You've done what you need to do. Now now leave it. Um. I don't think they would go to Damascus. Uh. I think that was mostly around shoring up one particularly sensitive area in the top half of Conitra. Um. That's that that province in the south, but um.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  But even so, just the land grab by itself is a particularly inflammatory step. Um. Yeah.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, in in truth, as you point out, despite everything else going on, uh, that is that is something that in public and uh, you know, in in Twitter land Syrians keep returning to. Uh, it's obviously a very emotional issue. However, however much the Israelis may say, hey, there's nothing to see here. We're just doing this. Um.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  Right.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  What happened, by the way, to was it Andoff, the the UN? Isn't there? There was a UN unit.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  The buffer zone, right? Did they just disappear?

• 52:32Speaker 03

  I think they I think I think they they departed very recently amidst all of this. I mean, the Russians had established a string of military posts along the Alpha Line. Um, uh, you know, in the last maybe twelve to eighteen months. In fact, they added two more posts just in the weeks before all of this uh, this crazy developments began. Um, and they were there as kind of guarantors for the for the UN peacekeepers. So um, it was a totally chaotic uh, collapse of the regime and I and I think amidst that chaos. Uh, as far as I understand, the UN peacekeepers had departed, but um. But yeah, with them gone, there's a there's sort of very little that that the Israelis would feel the need to do, except,

• 53:16Speaker 03

  you know, assert their own interests, I suppose, um, and and seal up what they look at, just like the Turks in the north as a as a big buffer zone.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  So Charles, we're coming near to an end. It's fascinating discussion. I know we could talk for another, another hour. But so, you know, kind of finishing off here, what are we seeing about the emergence of the government now in Damascus? And, um, and you know, that's first and second, um, they, there seems to be, unless, unless I'm just reading the wrong reports, a remarkable lack of turbulence in Damascus. You know, I'm thinking back to Baghdad after the fall of Hussein with all the, the looting and everything and then, and, and even, you know, the, the desire for revenge.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Am I in the Shia community there going after former Ba'athists? And that doesn't seem to be happening on the same scale in Damascus. Is that fair to say? Which again is another, so it's another good sign, right?

• 54:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, so far for now, all of the signs are really positive and encouraging. I think a lot of it speaks to the fact that Syrians are so fatigued after, you know, genuinely 13 years of just debilitating conflict. Uh, I think it also speaks to the reality that I think was underappreciated before all of these recent developments, which was that the vast majority of Syrians really did want rid of Assad. It's just many of them felt totally powerless after, after seeing how brutal the regime was willing to be to suppress the opposition. Um, and so I think that kind of euphoria of relief of like breathing fresh air for the first time in a long time has helped to discourage the more, you know, troubling behaviors that you might have seen elsewhere,

• 55:05Speaker 03

  where conflict and that change all developed much quicker. Um, you know, we have to remember that this comes after nearly 14 years of, of war, not a three-month invasion of Iraq or, you know, whatever else it might be. Um, so I think that helps. Um, I think also at the moment, a lot of Syrians in Damascus are also quite sort of uncertain and wary about what's coming next. They're also very well aware that the transition taking place and the interim or caretaker government, as they're calling it, is basically HTS. They had a governing entity in the northwest of Syria called the Salvation Government, and all of the Salvation Government ministers have basically assumed their roles now in Damascus.

• 55:47Speaker 03

  On a fascinating level, like as an analyst, fascinating that, you know, for the past several days, Assad's cabinet, except his foreign and military and intel ministers, except those, the entire cabinet has been meeting daily with the HTS cabinet and essentially kind of sharing their portfolios, sharing their responsibilities and, and conducting what was in effect a transition. And they had a whole of double cabinet meeting in the Four Seasons Hotel just a couple of days ago in Damascus to sort of formally transfer power.

• 56:28Speaker 03

  All very civil, absolutely no sign of any tensions, which is also totally remarkable considering these two bodies came from polar opposite ends of the spectrum. And so again, you know,

• 56:41Speaker 02

  That's more, that's more of a peaceful transition than we're likely to see in this country.

• 56:45Speaker 03

  Well, you know, I did, I did actually consider putting out a tweet saying that, like, wow, if only this could happen in Washington, like, but, but, but, but I thought better of, I thought better of doing that. But, but yeah.

• 57:56Speaker 01

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• 58:29Speaker 03

  I mean, early signs are kind of remarkable, but it is really early days. This transitional government has declared that they will be in place for three months, and in March 2025, there will be a new Syrian government. The absolute key now is that this three-month period sees a much wider body of Syrians folded into whatever this new government looks like. It has to incorporate minority communities. It has to incorporate women. It has to incorporate different political perspectives. If this new government in three months' time basically looks like a replica of what we currently have, which is an HTS, you know, salvation government

• 59:11Speaker 03

  in Damascus, we will be back to some form of civil conflict. There is a huge amount to negotiate. And, you know, beyond that, we have the political opposition, which has always been exiled. They expect some kind of a seat at the table. I'm not totally sure they're going to get it, quite frankly. Inside Syria, they're known as the kind of five-star hotel lobbyists, not as political representatives of the Syrian people. But the other big obstacle to take place is the very powerful southern armed factions in southern Syria, who actually were the ones who ended up taking Damascus. They will expect a seat at the table, too. I mean, for the last five years, they've been on the Russian payroll, just to make things even more complicated. They

• 59:55Speaker 03

  used to be the Free Syrian Army. Then they were Russian, Russian kind of proxies in the south, and now they're back to their kind of revolutionary face. And then, of course, is the SDF. How do you fold the SDF, which still, to this day, expects some kind of autonomy, into a more unified central state? So, yeah, I mean, really great early signs, but huge challenges ahead. And that is where...

• 1:00:23Speaker 03

  The US, the rest of the Arab states, the Europeans are all going to have to play a role to try and coax the actors in the right directions. We don't have real control, but we can have influence.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  And of course, the SDF, I mean, they, I, they, they want a semi-autonomous or an autonomous region similar to more autonomous than the counterpart in, in, in Iraq.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  But isn't the problem too, that the northeast is, is, uh, is quite a prosperous part of Syria. I mean, it's got the resources, uh, oil, it's got some of the most arable land. Um, and so, yeah, that's, that's going to require some delicate negotiation.

• 1:01:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, definitely. And that's where the US can really play a role. Yep.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  What about, um, you know, things like the international, I, I know you mentioned there's delegates and everything. Have they reopened the airport? Is it possible to fly back into Damascus?

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  So not yet, although I gather that work's underway to essentially make sure that it can reopen in the next few days. Um, I believe that the, the, much like the Qataris did in, uh, in Kabul. Uh, I think they're actually seeking to get involved in the, in the reopening of the airport and all the administration and, and, and equipment and logistics and what have you. So there are steps pointed in that direction, but at the moment, people are coming in via the Lebanese and Turkish borders. That's, that's the route in for now. Uh, you know, another thing here is the, the, the Arab world in particular has been sort of strained at the seams by the refugee crisis from Syria for so long.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  And, um, for the last 18 months, most of the Arab world thought that re-engaging Assad and strengthening his state was the key to encouraging refugees to return. First of all, that was a fantasy and completely illogical. But now, quite ironically, as soon as Assad falls, Syrians are flooding back to the country. Um, and so, you know, it, it just sort of goes to show that. Removing Assad out of the equation was really the solution to so many of the problems that have emanated from Syria, including the drugs, which has been a huge issue over the last few years. The drugs trade is basically finished. An industrial level, multi-billion dollar drugs trade has just kind of vanished overnight.

• 1:02:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it's amazing, like, everything has changed in so many ways that that will please the region. They just, the region needs to make sure that it plays a similarly positive role or a more positive role in directing what's happening now.

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  Do you have any plans to go back soon?

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  Well, I've already had three invitations, so it's really, for me, it's just a sort of a matter of time. I think I'll, I think, I, I hope to go maybe in January, provided that the situation remains relatively stable. But, um, yeah, whether it's Aleppo or it's Damascus, I think, remains to be seen. But, yeah, I, I hope to go back pretty soon.

• 1:03:23Speaker 02

  It's gonna be a fascinating trip. We'd love to talk to you when you get back.

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  Or even there, maybe you can.

• 1:03:29Speaker 03

  Or even there, yeah, exactly.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  From there.

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  Yep, we just need to get the good internet working, but yes, absolutely.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Well, this has been awesome. Thanks, Charles. I appreciate it. I'm gonna definitely want to get you back, but I appreciate your time and gonna turn over to, to Dee to, to wrap up.

• 1:03:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, great, great episode, Charles. Really appreciate it. Great insight. It's gonna be, seems like it's gonna be a wild one over the next few months. I hope it's not as violent.

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, too right.

• 1:04:01Speaker 05

  Charles links, Twitter, you're gonna send me everything. If you want to find out more about Charles, so the links will be in the description and in the show notes. Check him out there. Andy Milburn, of course, his links are in the description as well. And the best way to support the show is patreon.com/the team house. Thanks, guys. This is great.

• 1:04:23Speaker 03

  Great, thanks for having me.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Thanks again, Charles.

• 1:04:32Speaker 00

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• 1:05:17Speaker 00

  inflammation in the nose, flu or flu-like symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extenture. Learn more at Extenture.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at OnDeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:06:10Speaker 00

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection.

• 1:06:53Speaker 00

  Common cold, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extensura. Learn more at Extensura.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at OnDeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:07:49Speaker 00

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extensura. Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extensura is an ultra-long-acting prescription-maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extensura is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection.

• 1:08:32Speaker 00

  Common cold, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extensura. Learn more at Extensura.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 1:08:49Speaker 06

  Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:09:20Speaker 00

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription-maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection. Common cold, sinus infection,

• 1:10:05Speaker 00

  inflammation in the nose, flu or flu-like symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extenture. Learn more at extenture.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  Warning: This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Underage sale prohibited. If you ask us, nicotine pouches have always been a little tame. But now, there's a nicotine pouch for guys who have eaten meat that didn't come from the store. Grizzly nicotine pouches come in four flavors, four-milligram strength, and are made for guys like us. You go, super patriotic American bald eagle. Grizzly nicotine pouches. Nicotine pouches, but grizzlier.

• 1:10:50Speaker 06

  Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage...

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  Manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.