Jocko Underground: You Will Fail To Make Your Kids Exactly Who You Want Them To Be | What To Do In A Confrontation With A Crazy Ex-Con With Weapons.

Your kids wont turn out exactly who you want them to be. Is a lack of emotion bad? A confrontation with a crazy ex-con with weapons. Having a hard time saying "no" to team members. Enabling. "Thank you for your service". Finding a new mission that lives up to the last one. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 68, Echo Charles sitting here.

• 0:07Jocko Willink?

  This is Echo Charles' topic. And it's a topic that, look, you sent me a lot of topics. Yes. Most of them I don't. Most of them don't make the cut. I'm just being straight up. You reject them. I reject them. Yes, sir. Because some of them I don't really get.

• 0:29Jocko Willink?

  Some of them, like, I don't understand how that's interesting.

• 0:33Jocko Willink?

  But, you know, we're flowing with it. Okay. But I will say this, last two undergrounds have been your input. Okay. So we're, you know, progress is being made, we'll say. Outstanding.

• 0:46Jocko Willink?

  But this one, what's interesting about this one, this is something that you've heard me say. Yes. Which is, your kids won't be what you want them to be, they'll be who they are. As a topic, and it's something that we've talked about before, that

• 1:02Jocko Willink?

  your kids, and if you have more than one kid, you know that your kids, they're genetically predisposed to be a certain way. Like, they're just gonna be a certain way.

• 1:15Jocko Willink?

  You can influence that way. Somewhat. But sometimes, man, they're gonna be just different.

• 1:24Jocko Willink?

  And, in my opinion, the more you try and control them, the more they possibly

• 1:35Jocko Willink?

  can rebel against that thing, that ideal that you're trying to push them towards. Now, here's why I was, why I think this is a good subject. Because that's one part of the topic. Here's the, when you take that topic right there, to me, it's not just about for kids. This is about humans, this is about all people. And while we do have influence over people, our kids, our employees, our bosses, our peers, we have info, you have influence over all kinds of people.

• 2:05Jocko Willink?

  But they are gonna be who they are. And you, if you try and get them to change by imposing on them, it's not going to work as effectively as you might wish. Hey, look, is there a small, tiny percentage of the population? That is just, hey, will you? Will you coach me? Will you mentor me? And they really want it and they really will. There's a tiny percentage of the population that are like that. Tiny. It's tiny. Most people are like, oh, will you coach me? But I got my own way of doing things, you know? Oh, will you coach me? Cause I think I can learn from you and then make it better. Like, that's the way most people think.

• 2:46Jocko Willink?

  So the best way to influence people is through the indirect methodology. What do I mean by that? Setting a good example. I think this is so powerful. And what's really hard about this one is it takes years. People have to see you for a long time, setting a certain example before they go, you know what, that's a pretty good way of doing things. It doesn't, they don't go, wow, that was cool. I respect the way Echo is handling that relationship. I'm gonna do the same thing. It doesn't work like occasionally. But most of the time, you just set an example and over time it osmosis it into people's brains. If you're overbearing with the example,

• 3:27Jocko Willink?

  then it becomes, then you become like you're flexing your example all the time and you're trying to show how good you are at this thing. It becomes off putting and it's not gonna help.

• 3:41Jocko Willink?

  If you want to influence someone,

• 3:44Jocko Willink?

  indirectly, you gotta build a relationship with them, right? And how do you build a relationship? Trust, listen, respect and influence is something we talk all the time about at the Echelon Front. If I want to influence you, I gotta allow you to influence me. If I want you to trust me, I gotta trust you. If I want you to listen to me, I gotta listen to you. This is what we talk about all the time. By the way, this applies with your kids. By the way, this applies with your employees, your peers, your bosses, everybody. Asking earnest questions. Another important methodology for steering people.

• 4:16Jocko Willink?

  It's so much better to say, hey, where are you trying to get to than to say, take a right? Or take a left or keep going in that same direction now. It's, look, that works more while we're driving a car, even when you're driving a car, by the way, that can piss people off. You know, like, hey, you're, hey, you need to take a left here. Bro, what are you talking about? You didn't even know where we're going. I'm driving. I have my GPS up. What are you talking about? Why are you talking to me? That can be offensive. Just trying to tell someone the road directions can piss people off. Right? That's why there's a literal term for it, backseat driver. There's an actual term we have for don't freaking directly tell people how to drive because it pisses them off.

• 4:58Jocko Willink?

  Hey, you need to slow down. Hey, you need to speed up. Hey, you need to back off. Say that to my wife. While she's driving, I dare you. I dare you to say, uh, uh, hey, you're, you're a little close to that car. I dare you to say that to her.

• 5:14Jocko Willink?

  See what happens? How, see how that direct effort to influence my wife on how far she's tailgating somebody from?

• 5:23Jocko Willink?

  Right? You know what I'm saying?

• 5:24Speaker 01

  I know exactly what you're saying, sir. Yes.

• 5:26Jocko Willink?

  How does, how does Sarah Charles react to these scenarios?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Um, well, it's been a while.

• 5:31Jocko Willink?

  Well, since you learned that lesson early on, you know, not to, we're not playing.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  She hasn't learned it, but.

• 5:38Jocko Willink?

  Well, see, even that Charles gets a little heated. Everybody gets heated with direct. So that's, that's such a perfect metaphor. No one likes to get told how to drive. Now you think they want to get told how to live? It doesn't happen. You know, have you ever told someone? Hey, you should, you should don't tailgate so close. And they were like, oh, thanks for telling me. I'll back off a little bit. Does that happen in your life?

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Never.

• 6:04Jocko Willink?

  It's never happened in my life.

• 6:07Jocko Willink?

  I was with a friend of mine. He got cut off by a motorcycle. Brutal. And, and like the guy like kind of flipped him off. Okay, yeah. And my friend was driving and started driving exceedingly fast. Trying to chase him. To chase him. And, and got to him and started following him at like the most insanely dangerous proximity. And I'm like, bro, stop what you're doing. This is not. Like, didn't help at all. In fact, he accelerated, right? Yeah. Yep. Thankfully, we had to turn off the highway. But I was like, dude, but, but this is such a perfect example because you know you're driving.

• 6:51Jocko Willink?

  You know, your wife is driving too close to that vehicle. Yeah. You know it.

• 6:57Jocko Willink?

  But she doesn't want to hear that shit from you. So that's the way life is. And when you try and direct people and from the backseat driver, that's the reason why. You're the backseat driver and they don't want to hear it. So what you have to do is you have to use the indirect approach.

• 7:15Jocko Willink?

  That's what you have to do. So you say, ah, you know, hey, what kind of car is that? Did they cut you off? So you say, you say that? Well, no, no, no, they didn't cut me off. Oh, I was just wondering because you're like right up on them. You might get away with that. That even that might be too direct, right? Yeah. So asking earnest questions, building relationships, that's the way we have to focus this. If you want to influence people to change their, their, their behavior in life and their methodology for driving. You have to take the indirect approach. Now, here's another positive way to get this done. Give people ownership.

• 8:02Jocko Willink?

  Give people ownership. People like to be their own boss.

• 8:09Jocko Willink?

  Most people, I'm going to say 70% of people like to have ownership. They like to have control. Actually, more than that.

• 8:17Jocko Willink?

  In life, everybody wants to have control over their life. 99, 97% of people. Want to have control over what's going on.

• 8:26Jocko Willink?

  So when people in their life, when you give them responsibility, it's, it's, it's positive for them. When you say, and I, I answered a question like this on the academy today. It's like, oh, we're in a work in an industry where you can't give them any ownership bullshit. Even in the most stringent of businesses or industries like nuclear power, one of the strictest industries that we work with, nuclear power. If there's a protocol for how you enter a building. Hey, there's the, and I go, and you're the guy that's in charge of the building. And I say, hey, here's the protocol, follow the protocol. You have a little grudge.

• 9:10Jocko Willink?

  You have a little grudge. Now, if I say, hey, Echo, here's a protocol. We've been using the past. I know you just got here. Let me know if there's any changes that you think need to be made. This is what we've been using. All of a sudden you are stoked. I gave you ownership. I gave you ownership of an existing protocol. But I gave it to you instead of saying, hey, instead of imposing it on you, I, I gave you ownership of it. So if you could do that in life, it's going to help people in a big way to take ownership. And then what you do is you can ask questions about where they're going. And you know, we had an interesting conversation with Chris Voss. And he pointed out the fact, which I agree with,

• 9:53Jocko Willink?

  that the word why is an accusatory word, right? Hey, why are you doing this? Why are you tailgating that car? That's, it's an accusatory word, which is an interesting scenario because as you know, at Echelon Front and from a leadership perspective, we talk a lot about explaining the why. And so you've got to explain the why so that you would think that, okay, then you also should be asking why. But I agree with the fact that asking someone, hey, why are you doing it like that? Can put people defensive immediately. So instead, if you say something like, hey, well, you know, hey, what's your end goal that you're trying to achieve here? Or what is it you're trying to get to? Or, you know, hey, how does this fit? Hey, how does this?

• 10:37Jocko Willink?

  How does it fit in your long-term goals? If you can ask those kinds of questions, they can be less accusatory. And some of them you could still ask accusatory questions. It doesn't matter what words you use. So you have to be careful. But.

• 10:52Jocko Willink?

  Asking earnest questions about where people are going that help them discover the truth is the way to go. And treating, here's, here's two similarities in life. So, you know, I wrote about leadership strategy and tactics. One of my favorite methodologies for training people is putting them in leadership positions. Cause what you do, and you do that is you, you, you give them responsibility, you give them ownership and it's a positive thing. It's the same methodology that I have for kids, which is if you treat kids like an adult, it gives them responsibility, it makes them step up. Now, look, I'm not saying you, you know, throw them out in the streets and say, figure it out, but to say, oh, you gotta make your own breakfast in the morning.

• 11:36Jocko Willink?

  I'm not making your lunch before, you know, if your kid is, I can't think of the exact age, maybe six or seven years old, they should be able to make their own lunch for school. You gotta say, I can't remember the ages. What do you think, six years old, make your own lunch?

• 11:53Speaker 01

  My boy will not, can't make his own lunch at this time. He's six.

• 11:56Jocko Willink?

  But what if you, what if you trained him?

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could train him for sure.

• 11:59Jocko Willink?

  So right now you're just letting him suffer?

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's one way to put it for sure.

• 12:03Jocko Willink?

  No, I mean, you're letting, you're making him come dependent.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Yes, that is one way to put it, yeah. Put it this way, actually now that I'm thinking about this consciously in this direct way for the first time, I, yes, I probably could begin the training process for that. It's about now, yeah.

• 12:18Jocko Willink?

  So let's say six years old, you begin the training process for you make your own lunch. You get your own clothes out. You have your book bag packed.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:27Jocko Willink?

  When you're ready to go, you come tell me that it's time to go to school.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:33Jocko Willink?

  Right? This is the opposite of what, everyone else is like, hey, gotta go, hurry up, get your shoes on.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:38Jocko Willink?

  We gotta go. No. Maybe that's eight.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Might be only because, well, then again, I'm only thinking about my, I've only had one, well, I've had a six year old daughter before too, but I can't remember that, that was a while ago. But currently. If I say, this is my prediction, because I haven't done it yet, but if I say, hey, you tell me when you're ready. Oh, we're late. One hundred percent probability we're late.

• 13:00Jocko Willink?

  Then you have to be able to deal with the consequences. Okay, hey, son, you're late. That means you're gonna get in trouble at school. That means you're not gonna be able to go to recess. That's not on me. That's on you. You're responsible. And you start to treat kids like an adult, and they'll start to take responsibility and take ownership. And that is how you get your kids to be who they are, but to be the, the best version of themselves that you can hope for. That's my recommendation.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, you, I got this idea from, from you directly. Oh, and it was like, once I kinda accepted that, you know, like, cause bro, I was like, one of, one of the many people who was like, you know, before you have kids, you see other people have kids, you're like, eh, I'm gonna be like, for lack, I mean, put maybe, to simplify it, I'd be like, eh, I'm not gonna make those mistakes. Like whenever I got it kind of figured out.

• 13:52Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Well, I know what I'm gonna do, you know? So, and I think that's a common thing for sure. And then when you get in, you know, the first, you know, the expression from Mike Tyson, he said, yeah, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. So it was really that. Really, it was like, it was one step from that, in my opinion, how it felt where, yeah, when you're in it, bro, you, bro, these kids are acting all different than I expected. Like, and, and I just thought, oh, yeah, all I gotta do is be consistent and say this and, you know, whatever, but it doesn't even work.

• 14:19Jocko Willink?

  They got their own brains.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Not even close. I was like, dang. And certain things that were working that I was like, that would never work. But it's like, oh shit, it's interesting how that works so easily. So, so it, it's, it's hard. There's a lot going on, you know? We'll see. Um, and then here's the part that it's hard to even predict even a little bit is, we all think we're gonna be perfect. Well, not we all, but in my case, I kinda maybe subconsciously thought I was gonna just handle everything perfect. Why would I lose the temper of a kid? It's just a kid. Why would I get mad at that? Why would I get frustrated? You know, it's just a kid. But man, you're like a human, I'm a human being too, you know? And I'm not gonna be perfect 100% of every interaction, every minute of every day.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Like, that's not gonna happen, obviously, and quite frankly, it's not even gonna come close to that. So you're gonna react in certain ways, sometimes right, sometimes wrong, and then that's gonna influence them in a certain way and make them develop in a certain way. So it's like, brother, there's no way you can just make them be who you wanna be. Bro, they're gonna be who they're gonna be. So you're not gonna be perfect, they're not gonna be perfect as far as your little plan, kind of a thing. And man, when I accepted that, I was like, brother, there's so many factors and man, all you can do is literally like do the best you can, kinda thing. Learn as much as you can, for sure.

• 15:35Jocko Willink?

  Yep. Now, just to point out to everybody, this is not surrender. It's not going, "Well, the hell with it, I mean, my kids..." No. The most, the best way to have the most positive influence over your kids to steer them in the right direction and give them the best possible life is by taking this methodology. If you do the like, "Well, I just need to go harder," your kids are... That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you wanna continue to listen, go to jacood underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms, so we are not subject to their control.

• 16:17Jocko Willink?

  And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is, free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now, where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you, it's jacood underground.com. It costs $8.18 a month, and if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you.

• 16:58Jocko Willink?

  Just email assistance@jacood underground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.