The Truth About the Sex Recession, Pleasure Myths & the Female Desire Gap | Emily Morse (Fan Fav)

This is a Fan Fav episode. Emily Morse is the sex expert and host of the wildly popular podcast, Sex with Emily. If talking about sex is super uncomfortable and embarrassing for you, or if you can’t talk about it enough, Emily is the go to sex therapist and sex educator of this generation. Removing the shame of sex and giving people the information they need to have consensual, healthy, fulfilling sexual experiences with themselves and others is what she does best. ORIGINAL AIR DATE: 6-13-23 Emily breaks down the untold truth about sex and exposes the unsexy lies we’re told like a pro: *Why we’re in a sex recession *Messaging around sex that makes it shameful and dirty *How to re-educate yourself about sex, pleasure, and the power dynamic of sex between men and women *Myths about human sexuality told for centuries *Fantasies men have that sex is all about size and penetration *The “rubik’s cube” type complexity of female sexuality that will even shock women *We want you to prioritize having a healthy sex life, deeper intimacy, and stronger connections with others and yourself. Check out Smart Sex by Emily Morse here: https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Sex-Boost-Your-Pleasure/dp/0778387100 https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Sex-Boost-Your-Pleasure/dp/0778387100%20 Follow Emily Morse: Website: https://sexwithemily.com/ https://sexwithemily.com/%20 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/sexwithemily https://www.youtube.com/sexwithemily%20 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexwithemily/ https://www.instagram.com/sexwithemily/%20 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sexwithemily Twitter: https://twitter.com/SexWithEmily CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Vital Proteins: Get 20% off by going to https://www.vitalproteins.com and entering promo code IMPACT at check out Allio Capital: Macro investing for people who want to understand the big picture. Download their app in the App Store or at Google Play, or text my name “TOM” to 511511. SleepMe: Visit https://sleep.me/impact to get your Chilipad and save 20% with code IMPACT. Try it risk-free with their 30-night sleep trial and free shipping. Tailor Brands: 35% off https://tailorbrands.com/podcast35Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impactHims: Start your free online visit today at https://hims.com/IMPACT. Even Realities: Smart glasses, real style https://evenrealities.bio/6e396d What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business:https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20showjoin me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business:https://tombilyeu.com/callsee if you qualify here. https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:https://tombilyeu.com/sign up here. https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** Join me live on myTwitch stream https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ. I'm live daily from 6:30 to 8:30 am PT athttps://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJwww.twitch.tv/tombilyeu https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ ********************************************************************** LISTEN TO IMPACT THEORY AD FREE + BONUS EPISODES on APPLE PODCASTS:http://apple.co/impacttheoryapple.co/impacttheory http://apple.co/impacttheory ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=enhttps://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeuhttps://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeuhttps://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

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• 1:28Tom Bilyeu?

  and the problem with messaging around sex that makes it shameful and a little bit dirty. Emily is about to leave you shocked. We are shattering preconceived notions for both men and women. You're gonna have to listen to the whole thing to find out exactly how, but as a little bit of a teaser, guys, I'm telling you right now, Emily makes it very clear when it comes to satisfying your partner, it is not all about size or even penetration, which is crazy. But you're gonna wanna stay tuned because I'm telling you, she backs it up. By the way, Impact Theory is now available on Amazon Music, so head over to Amazon Music to hear more Impact Theory episodes like this one, conversations that really matter. Don't wait. Subscribe to Impact Theory now on Amazon Music and be legendary. I'm Tom Bilyeu, and welcome to Impact Theory.

• 2:12Tom Bilyeu?

  So in 2021, 26% of all adult Americans did not have sex even once in the entire calendar year. What are we getting wrong about sex?

• 2:23Speaker 01

  I think that what we're getting wrong, we're talking about the sex recession that's happening.

• 2:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I like that. I have not heard people use those words before.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  There is a sex recession.

• 2:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Facts.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  And I think what we're getting wrong about sex is that we don't really understand how to prioritize it, why it's important. There's a lot of things that's keeping us from having sex, stress, anxiety, worry about the economy, worry about a global pandemic. I think there's a lot of things that are replacing our desire for connection and intimacy. And I think these studies that are showing this, 26% aren't having sex, is they're also focusing a lot on young people, too. I think so.

• 3:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Which is more terrifying, in my estimation. Do you feel differently?

• 3:08Speaker 01

  I think it's all terrifying when you think about mental health, that we're not having intimacy in sex. Because I define sex differently. Like, I think of sex sometimes just as intimacy and connection. And I think that that's what we're really missing, like this whole loneliness epidemic. But yeah, I think it's really, I think anytime you hear something like this with the young people, our future, it concerns me for like procreation, it concerns me for the mental health and wellness of people that will be running this country and this world, because I think that sex is an important part of our well-being. So yeah, it's concerning.

• 3:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Obviously, I'm taking a more heterosexual approach here, but talk to me about that decline, the difference in males and females. I have a hypothesis that that's going to be a big part of this. And one of the things you talked about in your book is polarity and the difference between men and women, or the difference between partners, because I think you carry it on far deeper than just men and women. But I feel like there's something going on there. So when I think about like the boss bitch phenomenon, so Lisa went through her own transformation, going from a stay-at-home wife, like very traditional, and then stepping into being an entrepreneur, stepping into that sort of boss bitch role. And that was

• 4:18Tom Bilyeu?

  hard to navigate. And so when I think about all the cultural wins that are celebrating... That which one could very easily read is the masculinization of women. And dare I say that I see trends that I would call the feminization of men. Could that be playing some of this role in the sex recession?

• 4:39Speaker 01

  It might be. I mean, there are some people say we're going more toward androgynous culture right now. Like that we're going away from the the matriarchy to the patriarchy to more of a an androgynous place.

• 4:49Tom Bilyeu?

  From the matriarchy to the patriarchy?

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I'm saying, well, there wasn't really, I mean, well, we talk about matriarchal societies, but there wasn't really women who were the goddesses, as we heard.

• 4:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, so the idea that polarity becomes an important part of connection, which you talk about in your book, that you need difference.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  It's a requirement.

• 5:03Tom Bilyeu?

  And that when you have that difference, then you get the attraction. But if we are masculinizing women and feminizing men, you're eliminating a lot of that potential polarity. And my instinct, anyway, is that that is a big part of it. Not that it's good or bad, just that it is going to have a very predictable outcome as we have to re-figure out what is that attraction? What is the drive? What's my role? So in fact, I'll I'll give a quote. I think this quote is really brilliant and is I'm very interested to hear what you think about this. So Oscar Wilde said, "Everything is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power." Now, when you

• 5:47Tom Bilyeu?

  polish the edges off of that dynamic, that power play,

• 5:53Tom Bilyeu?

  I worry that you diminish the polarity and you make sex a far more confusing thing of who's leading, who's following,

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:01Tom Bilyeu?

  who initiates, et cetera, et cetera.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Okay, so sex is about power. And so what we're talking about is sexual polarity in the bedroom. So what happens outside the bedroom? Women are becoming more masculine and men are becoming more feminine. So in some ways, I think it's great for people to be more in touch with their feminine and their masculine. So let's just, I think we should maybe just first break down what that is, because I can tell you that, and then we can talk about sexual polarity and where the masculine feminine matters. But when we talk about the masculine, I want to remind everybody that we all have masculine and feminine energy inside of us. I have it, you have it. I think right now, I'm probably, I'm in my masculine. I'm talking to you, I'm talking business, I'm directed, I'm purposeful, I am driven, I have a mission, I'm talking to you, right?

• 6:47Speaker 01

  And the feminine is more ethereal, it's creative, it's nurturing.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  It's sensual, sensuality, and so, and it's feeling and it's emotional. So throughout the day, you know, we all sort of go in and out of it. I'm going to assume that sometimes you find yourself, you have emotions and femininity and you, you even talk about it on your show. You showed those.

• 7:08Tom Bilyeu?

  My journey has been learning how to masculinize myself. There's no doubt about that.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay. So, so I think that we all go in different places and they play a role in it. I mean, a role in our development. And I think that the more that we talk about it, it's just so important to recognize it. It's not good or bad, and the feminine isn't just inherently weak, and the masculine is inherently like just strong, and I think it's okay. I think the healthiest people know how to lean in to both, to either side when they need to, and when they want to. And I think that a lot of what we see with, if you talk about like toxic masculinity, if you go back to that, I think that that's like the repression of a lot of the sadness that men feel, and a lot of the inability, like men told to buck up and don't, don't show emotions when they're young. And I think a lot of that can get, can sort of become this way of not knowing how to express emotions.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  And I think through the feminine, men learn to feel and to be sad and to be, to feel a lot of things which it hasn't been okay. Growing up, for many, it wasn't okay to express their emotions. So I think that when we're talking about the feminine, that it's, I guess it's giving all sexes the permission to feel everything, is masculine and the feminine, okay? So, but when we talk about polarity, sexual polarity, and we talk about the sex recession and how that relates, we could just kind of go into that for a minute. For any kind of attraction to happen, somebody has to be leading and somebody has to be following. So think about it like a magnet, right? The polarity, like if you have the positive and the negative, if you have two opposite sides of a magnet, right? There are two, two similar sides of the magnet, there's no, they can't, right? They're going to repel.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  And that's what happens when you have two, a couple who's, but they're both in their feminine or both that are masculine. Now, I'm also talking about same-sex couples here, right? If you have two gay men, lesbians. You need the masculine feminine to create that attraction in the bedroom. You need the opposites. And so I think an understanding of how that runs sexual energy is and power is what is so important. Because I think what happens is when I'm like in my boss bitch, get it all done, whatever. And then my partner comes home and he's in that work. There's no one's going to, you know, if we're both initiating the sex, it's going to happen. If we're both waiting, if we're both in our feminine waiting, sex isn't going to happen there either.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  So you need to understand how to tap into your masculine, how to tap into your feminine when you want to create sexual attraction. And I think that the understanding of that is what's really missing. So there's been a lot of messaging in culture where, you know, I think that men got kind of afraid from a lot of things about being sexual or making attraction or hitting on women. And I think there was a lot that was happening with me too and Harvey Weinstein where perhaps it was a culture that caught sort of a lot of men who were like fearful, like I don't know the right thing to do and I don't know how to, to lean into how to ask a person out or in a heterosexual relationship, how to ask women, I'm just, I'm just going to shut down or I'm going to not do anything because there's fear that women were like, well, okay, I didn't want you to be lecherous. So I didn't want any of that, but I still want to feel like you're a man.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  I want, I want to feel that, I want to feel you leading so I can follow in the bedroom and create that attraction. So I think that's where we got really, really confused and maybe where we lost. Wait, I don't think that people really ever really understand this, to be honest, but I think that if we're talking about the reasons why there hasn't been as much sex happening is because we're not understanding that you need to create that dynamic to create attraction and arousal.

• 10:34Tom Bilyeu?

  So that feels very intuitively correct to me. When all of the Me Too movement kicked off, it was like word, like we need a lot of this. There's a lot of mayhem out there, but at the same time, I can see how as you begin to polish all the edges off of the dynamic. That you get to this point now where people are very confused. They don't know how to do the approach. When you have pornography ready at your fingertips, it becomes a much safer way.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:02Tom Bilyeu?

  There's no rejection. There's no fear of something bad happening to you. You also have a cultural message around guys just by being aggressive. You're being very toxic. And so as I was thankfully, I mean, as this all kicked off, I'm, I'm already married 15 years at this point. You know, it's like, none of that was really affecting me. But when I thought back to where Lisa and I were, for people that don't know our story, I was her teacher at a school for adults. I want to be very clear. She was in her twenties. But as her teacher, that was already sort of that inherent power play. And when you think about sex as being this, I mean, to, it is clearly, I think we will both agree.

• 11:45Tom Bilyeu?

  It is an oversimplification to say that sex is about power. As somebody who's in love with his wife and has had extraordinarily tender sex and it can just, it can be a whole other thing. But I think if you fail to understand that it is also about power, that is certainly one of its gears. That there is a giving and receiving and without understanding that dance, there can be some real awkwardness. That's where I started looking at that going, this isn't going to end well. And this is going to end where you have, like Lisa to me really understands this dance well. Which she says, look, I want to be a boss. I want to come in and do my thing. But I also want to be small in my husband's arms. Right? And so she is very able to switch gears.

• 12:32Tom Bilyeu?

  And I wonder, do you get like, when you talk about it like that, like, yeah, like go be a boss bitch. But at the same time, like, understand the power of the feminine energy, understand, I'll say this, this is not you. These are my words. The necessity, if you're, certainly if you're with somebody who's more masculine.

• 12:53Tom Bilyeu?

  If Lisa met me with masculine energy, I'd be turned off. Zero sex is gonna happen. It's just not interesting to me. I want her to be very feminine in those moments. I want her to follow. Doesn't mean I don't want her to initiate, but I want her to initiate in a feminine way, not an aggressive way.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:09Tom Bilyeu?

  And do you get pushback from the younger generation, is certainly my instinct, around that framing, that it should even be set up that way?

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Hmm.

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• 15:35Speaker 01

  You know, I, I think that we're still all wrapping our heads around all this because when we say that it's power, and I don't want to say, because I think people, when they think about power and sex, they think like, maybe they think more of like a kink play or BDSM or it's really aggressive things. Dominance. But what I'm really just talking about is like, there has to, for anything to happen, someone has to lead, someone has to, to follow, right? So I think that what we're getting is that, like, I think the younger generation is, and it's funny, because I was not even talking to some people who work with me, they're young, and then they're 20s. They're like, I'm asking guys out and we're going into the bar and I'm making the moves and I'm, I'm initiating. It's very, very empowering for them. And I think a lot of the guys are saying, what they're saying to me is like, it's such a relief that women are asking me out and that we're, that, that I don't have to make that move.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Because a lot of it, there's, I think there's also been a lot of fear around, or there's been a lot of, um, you know, everything is a muscle, right? Like, learning to ask, it's, it's a habit. So if you were home during the pandemic and you were staring at your screen and you were, you don't, you're kind of losing the ability to go out and like, maybe face rejection or to, to, to initiate, to approach someone. So anyway, I think that there's a certain relief, like, it's so nuanced. There's a certain relief that women are making the move, they're asking me out. I love that. I love, I love that freedom or I love that that's happening. And yet, if the women are continuing to do that, but then in the bed, like, but then they're still waiting for the, the guy to make the move because that's where the, the masculine comes in. It might be a little bit confusing. I think that they're still trying to find their way.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  I don't think I'm getting pushback, but I think even using gender here is what's gonna be confusing to people. But I can ask someone out, I can even pay for the bill. I can lead, I can drive, I can make the plans. But ultimately, sex isn't just about that act of sex in the bedroom. Like, we think it's about procreation, like, penis goes into vagina. But if I'm asking somebody out and I'm paying for the bill and I'm leading and all that, it's gonna be really hard to get in the bedroom and be like, okay, now I'm passive and now you lead. So it's very, very nuanced to find where in the relationship. One person is leading and one person is following. So I guess the best way I can explain it is to give you like a personal example, because I think otherwise this gets really, can get very lost. And I think I'm just going to be real here with it.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  So I run a business, I'm busy every day, I manage people, I'm talking about sex, although funny enough, like I'm not sitting around having sex and being in my feminine all day. Like I said, I'm running a business. However, I'm stressed, I've got a lot of, I got a lot of responsibilities. And you know, my partner too, he runs a business and he's busy. But I know that for us, our intimacy and our connection is so important. You know, sex is part of our mental health, our overall wellness. It's really important to have sex. I think that side note, a lot of couples are concerned because their sex life goes away, takes a nosay, they wonder why they're no longer connected. And I think it's because they don't understand this polarity. So what happens is when I know that, for example, I want to be like, it's been days, you know, I've been in distress mode, my partner, I've been connected.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  I have to make a conscious effort to say, okay, I'm going to get into my feminine and I'm going to start to move my feminine energy and cultivate it. So I can feel connected to my partner, because when I am more in my feminine, then he is able to be more in his masculine. And that's where our attraction starts to, to build and to circulate. Cause it's all, sex is all energy, right? And it all originates like in our, you know, in our brains. But also when you think physically, a way to think about it is in our pelvic floor. Like anytime you have a ting or, you know, even if you're like watching porn or you're aroused or turned, it's all happening in our pelvic floor, which is our power source, which is where the energy starts to flow, for example. So if I've been in my, if I've been in my masculine all week or all day,

• 19:11Speaker 01

  I'll do some practices that allow to circulate this. So I will turn off my phone, I will step aside from work, I'll slap my, I'll shut my computer. And I will go into my bathroom and I've made that more of like a sacred space for me. And I will take a bath or a steam shower and I will get myself and I'll start to breathe. So I will. You know, no one's coming in the room. I don't want to see my partner and I just sort of light some candles. Now, this is the feminine, okay? So I don't want any like eye rolling, like a wooing, like of course, like candles and flowers, but that is the feminine. That is the nature that is grounding. That is the source. I need to get back to that place. I need to feel that space. I need to tap into that space for me to start to feel more

• 19:53Speaker 01

  grounded in my feminine. So I will do some breathwork practices. So like I'll get in the shower. Like I'm exhausted. I've had my day, just like everyone else. I'm exhausted. The calls, the Zoom meetings, like, oh my God, if I have to see one more person on Zoom, all the things, the bills. And then I get in the shower, I turn off, I play some music, and I will start to breathe. So I'll just, sometimes I just can barely, it's, I don't want to do it either, Tom. Sometimes I don't want to do this.

• 20:14Tom Bilyeu?

  You don't want to get into your feminine, or you just don't want to think about anything?

• 20:17Speaker 01

  I don't want to think about anything. I don't want to have sex anymore. Like, I don't want to do it. I don't. I'm exhausted. I'm tired. But I know that for me to stay connected, and once I do, I'm really happy. Like, I'm thrilled that I do and I feel better. But I'm saying this for the people and the people listening who sometimes, and this happens to men too, where they just don't feel like they want to have sex. They just feel like, because we're so in our heads. And what's keeping us from feeling sexual and true authentic connection, why we're in a sex recession, is because we forget to be in touch with our sexual energy. Okay? So I get in there and I'm like, okay, I'm going to do some breathwork, some really deep breathwork, where it's just like I'm breathing, you know, my inhales are, my exhales are longer than my inhales, right? And I'm

• 20:59Speaker 01

  breathing in, so I'm starting to move my energy, right? And maybe I'm making some noise and some sounds, and I'm, and I'm sitting and I'm meditating and breathing, I'm in the shower, I'm feeling the hot water. And when I start to do this, what I'm doing is, this is just the first thing that anchors me in, and it doesn't have to be that long of a practice. Sometimes it's longer, sometimes it's shorter. But when I'm breathing and I take a deep breath in, when I get to the top of my breath, maybe it's five or six counts, I do a kegel exercise. I do a pelvic floor, like, clench, okay? And so that's just the pee-stopping muscles, when you stop and start the flow of urine, that's a kegel. And I want to remind you that men can do that as well, and men should do that as well. Because men are often disconnected from this. They're in their heads, they're thinking about porn, they're thinking about other things. But how you stay connected to your

• 21:43Speaker 01

  sexual energy is by this tensing. So I'll do like a kegel, a pelvic floor clench and release. It's almost like I'm pumping, I'm pumping, I'm stimulating my, my energy. And then I'll start to move, right? And I'll start to move back and forth and I'll do some kind of like body sways or going in the, in the like a circular motion. Where I'm telling you, if I started to do this right now, I could probably do this in this room. I could start to circulate my feminine energy where I've done this before in restaurants and bars, where I've been studying this, like where you can feel women starting to get in touch with their energy. I would just start to breathe. I start to kind of circulate in a, in a, in a clockwise, then counterclockwise motion, moving my pelvic floor and breathing and clenching.

• 22:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Are you thinking about anything at this point?

• 22:27Speaker 01

  I'm not. I'm not even really thinking. I'm just breathing.

• 22:30Tom Bilyeu?

  And this is connecting you to feminine energy specifically?

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Specifically, to the feminine. And, and I'm, I'm, I'm moving, I'm breathing, I am, I'm doing the things that make me feel the most connected to myself. And I'm letting go from the day, I'm letting go from worry and I'm into the, it's nurturing, it's creative. And so this is one way that I do it. And I get out of the shower and I'll put some lotion on and I'll slow down. The masculine is fast, purposeful, directed. Remember the feminine is creative and nurturing and softer. Maybe I'll lay down on my bed. I'll just kind of, maybe I'll go outside for a walk too. Like nature is grounding, like nature is also part of the feminine. It also helps the masculine.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  But all of these factors are the things that allow us to get more connected to the source. So I'll do these things and immediately like, you know, I will feel like I'll get dressed or I'll like change thing, I'll change the music, I'll have the scents going on. So again, your senses also are a big part of this. It's like, what am I smelling? What am I hearing? What am I tasting? And I use everything around me to kind of envelop, to get me more into my feminine. And I sort of start to circulate that energy, become more in touch with it. I could do this in five minutes, I could do this in three hours. But either way, I'm just sort of more connected to it. And then my partner will come over or come in. And I'm much more softer. I'm breathing. I'm not meeting him with like, did you, did you pay this bill? Did you call thing? What's going on? How was your day?

• 23:59Speaker 01

  I'm not coming at him with a to do list. I'm not coming at him with everything that we need to do. I allow him to lead. What are we doing tonight? Where are we going? Have you made the plan? Like, I'm not being purposeful and directed. We've already agreed to this, that I need him to make the plans, like this night. Now, there are some nights where I might make the plans, but on the nights where we want to have like our date night, and this is something that I like, I highly, I know that you and Lisa do this. I believe you do, when I've talked to you, that you have a purposeful night, that you say like, this is our night, or this is our weekends, where we shut off our phones and it's about us. And I'm telling you, Tom, that if more couples did that, rather than living in this amorphous masculine, I'm in the masculine, you're in the feminine, or I'm, I'm in my, I'm, I'm the wife, for example. And again, this is gendered, but this is the best way to do it.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Where I'm telling you what to do, and I'm giving you all the errands, I'm taking care of the kids and the house and the things, and I'm, I'm the one in charge. Like, there's no room for both of the energies to flow. So I've had to learn to let go of control in ways. So I let my partner know, like, I need you to pick the place we're going. I need you to decide what we're doing, because that is the masculine. So when I'm in my body, embodied, and I'm breathing and I'm grounded, then I allow him to be purposeful and mission driven, and he decides what we're doing, where we're going. He is leading, I am following. We've started to line up our energy and circulate that, so we're in a more connected, erotic place.

• 25:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Are you familiar with the idea of hypergamy?

• 25:22Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 25:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, God, this is so interesting. So, as you were describing all of that, I'm literally shocked to my core that you don't get pushback from younger people, which is amazing. I'm very grateful, so I may just have a misread. But what resonates with me there is, so, hypergamy, just to define that quickly, is the female tendency to date across socially or up? Women do not date down. So they want a guy that makes more money than them, they want a guy that they perceive as smarter than them. They're always trying to go across or up, so at least as smart, at least as much money or more. And they're perfectly fine with that. You don't, guys don't do that. So guys could not care less how little money you make. In fact, you probably make them feel awesome if they make more money than you.

• 26:08Tom Bilyeu?

  But because women date across and up, As women go more into the workforce, as women realize, hey, we're just as smart as the guys, we're just as capable, you're now setting the bar higher and higher, making it harder for men to lead, because you never want to say to somebody, slow down so I can lead, right? So the guy then needs to outperform. But I think this is part of what's creating this problem is that, one, it's just taboo, at least from where I'm sitting in the social media circles that I run in, it would be very taboo to say, women, you want to find a guy that can lead. That, like, if I sent that tweet out right now, I would get just mauled.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  I'm talking about sexually. I'm talking about creating that energy for, for the dynamic. And I'm telling you, this is happening in same-sex relationships, too. So, I, I mean, honestly, like, I, I see what you're saying with women dating up, biologically speaking, that's what we're attracted to. We want a caregiver, we want all of that. But I think some of that's changing. Like, I

• 27:12Tom Bilyeu?

  I do, too. And I think that's why 26% of people did not have sex in 2021.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  I don't know. Like, I, I say this, but like, I probably shouldn't say this, but I, I do, I'm not looking for those things in a partner. Like, I'm not looking for the, I'm not looking for the money, and I'm not looking for someone who makes more than me, and I never have. I've never been that person. But I've been looking for somebody, and I don't, and I don't know how to explain that, that's just like upbringing, society. I was raised, my mother said, never rely on a man to take care of you. So I've always been about, like, making my own living and doing my own thing and leading. However, I have also made sex, the study of sexuality, my business, because my greatest fear was getting into a relationship. When I was younger, I would date people, and then the sexual energy would wane after a while. We would no longer, in the honeymoon phase, where it was exciting. I was like, what is the secret to keeping it still hot? Like, what

• 28:00Speaker 01

  do you do? Because that just seems really awful to be with someone for the rest of your life, and you no longer want to have sex with them anymore. And what I'm talking about is the sexual polarity, which I think is the key to it. So, I don't, I don't want my partner to lead all of the time. In fact, I think I'm way smarter at so many things than he is. Like, I think with business, I'm better. I think I'm better at marketing. I think I have a lot of ideas that I'm like, really You know, I lean into and he's got, in some ways, I am leading a lot of things. But when it comes to attraction and date night and intimacy and connection and and touch and all the things that are really, really important for me, I know that I'm more submissive and I need somebody more dominant. And so in order for that sexual energy to happen, just enough, whether it's once a week,

• 28:42Speaker 01

  once every 10 days, whenever it is, hopefully more often than that, because the more you do it, it becomes a habit, I am softening into what I need to be sexually satisfied and fulfilled. So that's where I want him to lead. Like, I want him to, maybe it's for that night, because we all, you know, it's for a few hours, so, because that's the only way the sex is gonna happen.

• 29:03Tom Bilyeu?

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• 29:46Tom Bilyeu?

  My link gets you an exclusive 30 days free instead of the usual 14-day trial. There's no credit card payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/impact to get started. Again, that's pipedrive.com/impact and you can be up and running in minutes. So even going back to hypergamy, so, one, obviously, I'm talking averages. No one person is gonna fit perfectly into anything. I'm also not passing judgment on that. I don't think it's problematic for women to have a certain set of things, on average, that they look for. And nobody wants to be in a relationship with somebody that they aren't equals.

• 30:29Tom Bilyeu?

  So I want to be very clear that... The reason I think that we're seeing a decline is that once society, so I mean, really, a lot of this starts with the pill, right? Once women are no longer, they can deal with having a period from a sanitary perspective, and they can have sex without getting pregnant, a lot of things begin to change. We see women flooding into the job market, absolutely crushing it, because of course, women are incredibly intelligent, like anybody. Intelligence is evenly distributed across men and women. I mean, it's, there are some weirdnesses, but whatever. Just as an average, it is a wise way to approach the world, to assume, when you meet a man or a woman, to just assume they could be just as intelligent as anybody else.

• 31:13Tom Bilyeu?

  And so, that isn't going to be the problem. Where we run into a problem is that there is this nuance between, are you able to shift gears, yes or no? Are you able to understand that I'm good at some things, my partner is good at others? And that's good, right? In the beginning of my relationship, I thought Lisa would only find me sexually attractive if I was better than her at everything. And so that created all this friction until I realized, oh wait, who would want to be in a relationship like that? But if you don't understand that when it comes to sex, the dynamic is going to be different. So Lisa and I, for instance, I have to go from she is my business partner, my equal partner, that she is very good at business. And so it would be very wise of me to know when to follow her,

• 31:57Tom Bilyeu?

  but that when it comes to sex, that there is a different dynamic. And my whole thesis, and admittedly, I'm just beginning to explore this, but my whole thesis is that this is really what's beginning to break down, that this has opened up this incredible amount of nuance, where people have to really understand that there is at a at a high level, there is a tendency for women to date across and up. As they make more money, that narrows the pool. And so when you do these like, street surveys where they ask women like, okay, what are your non-negotiables? My eyes gotta be six feet tall, uh, he's gotta make at least a hundred thousand dollars, uh, he has to be somewhat in shape. It, it ends up being, I saw one recently, and the list was pretty basic. It wasn't crazy. I mean, it was what I just

• 32:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Just said plus like one or two more things. And it was like point three five percent of men meet that qualification. And nobody would look at the list and go, that's, that's absurd. It wasn't like, oh, they have to be worth a million dollars. I mean, it was really like some pretty straightforward stuff. And that was still point three five percent of men. And so if you don't go, oh, wow. All of these things have consequences. And thusly, I need to figure out how to address those consequences. When I think about you or I think about Lisa, it's people that have figured out. I both want to at times be assertive, but then at times understand that there's this whole other gear.

• 33:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Where from her perspective, she finds it compelling for me to lead is the easiest answer. Not all the time, of course not. She's a fully realized human being. But if people don't contend with these things, I think they will forever be surprised. That there is a sex recession going on, that modern dating is disrupting something. Something is going wrong. To give you an idea, forty six percent of Japanese youth say that sexual contact. They, they despise sexual contact, despise.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Despise.

• 34:01Tom Bilyeu?

  So I'm just saying something is breaking down. And what I'm trying to walk through is what is that? And it is really like, I know even trying to be thoughtful and think through this. And again, I'm not judging any of this. I just want to understand what's going on. How do we navigate it well? What are things that we want to change about the setup? Like, hey, maybe people should be more thoughtful about how much time they spend on social media. Hey, maybe people should have open conversations with their partner about sexually. Do I want to lead or do I want to follow? And that when you start trying to, because I, I think if I were going to boil this all down to one thing. I would say the big problem that people are making is that they approach people as if

• 34:46Tom Bilyeu?

  they are blank slates. And one thing, you mentioned it already, you talk about it in your book, and I think it's very smart sex, is to understand that the brain is the largest sex organ. And if you fail to understand the brain, if you fail to understand that there are sex differences in the brain, if you fail to understand that hormones, which are driven by sex, are, meaning what sex you are, male or female, that you are going to be very confused. And what I'm always trying to get people to understand is that the brain is a prediction engine. Your brain is constantly trying to predict. And this is gonna get complex very fast.

• 35:29Tom Bilyeu?

  But, so, when you understand that your brain is creating a simulation of the real world. So, to give you an idea, we see point, point, oh, oh, three, two percent of the visible spectrum of light. What we call the visible spectrum of light is only point oh, oh, three, two percent of electromagnetic radiation. So, we're already, we just assume that what we see is everything, when in reality, it's less than half a percent. So, your brain is reconstructing a simulation to try to help you navigate through the world. What people ought to be doing, in my estimation, is going, "I predict that the outcome of my behaviors will be this.

• 36:14Tom Bilyeu?

  And if it is that, then you're close to ground truth. If it isn't that, there's a flaw in your model, and you should be trying to figure out what truth is." My whole hypothesis is that the sex recession is a sign that our model's broken. There's something we don't understand, that no one predicted this. We're headed towards population collapse, like, for real, for real. For real. And so, when you have forty-six percent of Japanese youth saying they despise sexual contact, when you have twenty-six percent of American adults, adults, I'm not saying, like, fifteen-year-olds, adults, not having sex in the entire calendar year, and that was before the pandemic, so I have to imagine that number's been hammered even lower. So, there's something flawed in our model.

• 36:59Tom Bilyeu?

  And what I wanna better understand and the reason that I find this topic so interesting, I'm on the other side of it. I'm married, I have a thriving sex life. I've managed to navigate the transition from my wife being a housewife, all day feminine, and then migrating into something where it's now feminine is one of the gears, but she can also show up in a business context, hyper masculine, and having to navigate that. So it's like, I've done everything I can to refine, refine, refine my model, to get to where I'm like, okay, I can still predict the outcome of my behaviors. But as I look at the next generation, I'm legitimately worried that we're not thinking through the right problems. And just to summarize,

• 37:42Tom Bilyeu?

  the problem I think is that they think we're blank slates and they're not recognizing the differences. I'll say between men and women, I think that's the most foundational category to understand because of its impacts on the brain.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  There's a lot there to unpack, Tom Bilyeu, because, yeah, I mean,

• 38:05Speaker 01

  the fact that Japanese are saying that it's, what is it, disgust?

• 38:11Tom Bilyeu?

  They despise sexual contact.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  They despise sexual contact and that we're not having sex here in this country. Just points to the fact that we grossly misunderstand what the purpose of sex, why we have sex, why we get turned on, why we get aroused, what like, what is attractive to us, what, why, like, why it matters. We've been fed a whole bunch of misinformation and we have lack of sex education pretty much everywhere in the world, except for in the Dutch countries. That is the only place where sex education, I think, makes sense because we talk about pleasure. And we, so, so.

• 38:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Give me a rundown, what do they do?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Okay, so here, so here's what happens. Well, okay, we can go there. So in America, and in most countries, when we talk about sex, it is mostly fear-based and there's a lot of judgment, there's a lot of fear, a lot of danger. You're gonna get pregnant, you're gonna get an STI, you're going to be a slut, you're going to, this terrible thing's gonna happen if you sleep with too many people, no one's gonna wanna marry you. Like, there's all this negative messaging. The only place where they don't talk about it is if you go to the Dutch countries. They will talk about you're gonna get pregnant, you be careful, SDIs, all the things. But they also talk about pleasure and they talk about joy.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  They talk about orgasm, they talk about arousal, they talk about connection, they talk about intimacy. They teach emotional intelligence in schools. And they say like, oh, you they talk about puberty in a real way. That's like this, you're gonna start to get these emotions and feelings for somebody. And here's what it means. And they talk about it. And it's not like it's once a year in gym class. Your gym teacher's teaching you sex is what happens in America, right? Like you roll out a picture like the ovaries and the fallopian tubes and like that's it. They literally start pre-verbal, like when there's a kid, like they talk about it like when there's like a toddler, right? So let's say in America, there's a baby, right? And I'm like, my parents are cuckooing and they're like, okay, well, here's your toes and your knees and your thighs and your stomach. And like we jump over the genitalia.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  It's this part that has no name. But if we're in the countries like in the Netherlands and these countries, they'll, they'll say like this is your, they name the part. So they'll say this is your, your knees and they'll say your thighs and your penis, your testicles. They'll say your vulva, your vagina. There is no fear in naming the parts.

• 40:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Is this like on their version of Sesame Street? Like I'm really trying to imagine the children's songs.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is it. This is their Sesame Street. But this is just like, there's no, because there's no shame.

• 40:51Tom Bilyeu?

  So interesting.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  There's no shame about it. There's no like, that's private, that's wrong, that's something that you should ever express to anybody. Touching your body parts is wrong. I mean, there's just, they just really like, it's open. And then as the kids get older, they talk about consent. They talk, and this is something that people have tried to talk about in America and people make fun of them. But like, there are some places where like you have to consent to somebody touching you. So they'll tell your kid, if anyone wants to touch your, your, your penis or touch your body, like you get to decide like it's a much more embodied culture where they're understanding like where they're giving consent to anyone touching them or even like dressing them or changing their diapers or saying like, I'm gonna, now I'm going to change your diaper. I'm going to touch you in this way. And I know that people are gonna be like, that just sounds awful. But they are connecting their brain and their body, their mind and their body to their sexuality.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  And there is no shame around it. And so what happens if you go to America and a lot of countries, probably in Japan. What we don't remember is when a kid is like very young, right? You might be like a toddler, you might not even remember this, but some of our earliest messaging around sex is like as a kid, we might, as a toddler, we might soothe ourselves by putting our hands on our pants. Boys and girls do this all the time. But what might happen is a parent's reaction, which we might not even remember, maybe like, "Don't do that, that's dirty, that's wrong, what are you doing?" And so our very first message around touching our genitals is that that is wrong, that is shameful, that is dirty. Now, what if we grew up in a home that was very, very religious, right? We grew up in a place that said like, you know, sex is dirty, it's shameful, it's wrong,

• 42:19Speaker 01

  you can only have sex for procreation, um, you know, and if you do, if you don't, you're gonna go to hell, or if you touch yourself, you're gonna grow hair on your palms. So it wasn't that long ago that we had this messaging. You're gonna go blind, right? And so if this is the messaging that we got, right? And then all of a sudden, we're like told, you know, when we go off and have sex, it's like we're having, it's like we're given the keys to the car without having driver's education. We're saying like, "Go off and have sex," but all we have told you that it's shameful, it's wrong, it's distasteful, and you might go to hell for having sex. So there's all this really mixed messaging around sex, which is more common than you think, and in places that we don't even realize, like it's very insidious, right? But even if you didn't grow up in a religious home, which I did not, I still had some shame around it.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  I still was like, it's, you know, to be sexy, but not too sexy, be sensual, you know, but be, be into it, but not that into it, you know, just, there's just all these mixed messages, right? So then you go off and you have sex, and there's not a lot of information about how to do it right, how to do it correctly, right? But then you have the advent of porn. Now porn's been around since the beginning of time, we have like cave drawings of people, but what I'm talking about is the porn in your pocket, like porn that's available with a smartphone. So that's been almost like, when did the first smartphone? Maybe almost 20, 18 years, 19 years? So now porn is ubiquitous, it's available everywhere. Children are seeing porn at eight years old now.

• 43:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Jesus.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  They're like on Candy Crush, and then there's like boobs, and they're like, "Mommy, what's this?" Right? And there's like, or they're not even telling their parents, and they're seeing pornography at an early age. Without sex education, because let's remember what's happening in America right now, we are like Roe v. Wade, we're rolling back rights, but yet there's also no sex education. Like only 17 states require sex ed to be medically accurate right now, if they teach it at all. So now we're saying like, you can't have sex.

• 44:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait. It doesn't have to be medically accurate?

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Meaning that like, it's, yeah, there's sex that's not accurate, it's not medically accurate, it's not even factual.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  In seventeen states only require it. Maybe it's, maybe that number's changed to maybe twenty something, but for many years it was seventeen states required to be medically accurate. We don't really care about sex education. In fact, in most of the states in America, we don't really prioritize it. We kind of hope it doesn't really happen. We think if we teach sex ed that kids are just gonna go off and be sexual. But going back to the Dutch countries, what we see is when kids have accurate information about the dangers around sex, maybe and some of the fears around it, but we also talk about pleasure and joy and connection and intimacy, which is all a really important part about being alive and being human.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Like, we need connection and touch and intimacy. Like, that is a requirement for a healthy life. When we're told about that and how to do it responsibly, we have much better outcomes than here where we're told, we're not really told anything. So there's this dangerous thing that's happening, which I think that maybe we could unpack here is that pornography without sex education, this is one hypothesis, is dangerous. And it's what we're seeing is maybe we won't be procreating as much, we won't be having as much sex. We'd rather just stay home and maybe look at our screens because I, at least I had an orgasm or had some pleasure and that felt pretty good, but there was less risk.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  I didn't have to be rejected by a human. I didn't have to go out there and embarrass myself. I didn't have to try do something I'm not comfortable with, but it still felt pretty good. And now I can go off and like play video games or go see my friend, but I don't have to have that risk.

• 45:53Tom Bilyeu?

  So how do we begin to back out of that then? Is it blocking porn? Is it educating kids not to watch so much porn? Is it teaching them not to death grip? Like, what do we do here?

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Death grip doesn't help. I think there's a lot of it. I think there's a lot we can do because again, I'm not bashing porn at all either. Here's the thing porn has a purpose, a utility, but porn is also, let me just say this. Most of the porn that you see is created by men for men under the male gaze. Like, this is what men want to see. And so like that, when you search porn and you look at porn, like that's, that's what you're gonna see. There is nowhere in that equation that we're even taking into consideration what women find sexy or hot, like women's eroticism.

• 46:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, let's talk about that. What do you can, what do you consider? The porn that women consume without having to encourage it. Because I would say they consume porn, it's just not the same kind of thing.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  It's not the same kind of thing. So there is some more porn. They do. And women do conserve. They do. They do. And I'm not saying, again, we are not speaking for every woman and every man at all. But there has been an emergence of porn that we call now ethical porn.

• 47:02Tom Bilyeu?

  But do women really watch ethical porn?

• 47:04Speaker 01

  They do. If they know about it, they do, and they love it. But it's not easy to find. You have to pay for it.

• 47:08Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you know why it's not easy to find?

• 47:11Speaker 01

  Because women are making it and charging it.

• 47:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Women don't give a shit, and it's never gonna make any money. But there is a porn industry for women that makes a lot of money. A lot.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Erotica.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Erotica.

• 47:25Tom Bilyeu?

  That to me goes back to your brain is a prediction engine. Once you understand that men are visually inclined, they want to watch visual pornography. And so of course, the pornography is for men by men. And, and look, I get women saying like, oh, man, like, I wouldn't want to be in any of those sex acts. Respect. I totally understand that. And when AI comes online, trust me, real women won't be important anymore. But that is.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Well, that's another conversation, right?

• 47:50Tom Bilyeu?

  That is what guys want women to want. Fair. Erotica is what women want men to want, which is, you know, 400 pages. And, uh, you know, in the end, they finally have sex and he tears her, you know,

• 48:10Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 48:11Tom Bilyeu?

  her dress off of her. But it, it is very, very different. And when I, when the whole Fifty Shades of Grey phenomenon happened, I had no idea how intense that book was. And Lisa was reading it, and all of her girlfriends were reading it. I was like, I gotta read it like a slice of this. I picked it up and started reading it. I was like, oh, my God. Like, this is, this is pornography. But for women. And there's a book called A Billion Wicked Thoughts. Have you read it?

• 48:41Speaker 01

  No, I've, yeah, parts of, yes.

• 48:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Emily, read the whole thing. Oh, my God, you're gonna love it. It's so incredible, the way that it breaks down the difference between male porn, female porn, what they're interested in. Mind blowing.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:56Tom Bilyeu?

  So anyway, so you're saying for men by men, fair.

• 49:02Tom Bilyeu?

  But women just have a whole different shtick.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Well, women are attracted to many more things who were so also more open in our desire and arousal. Women find a lot of more things more attractive than men, too. They do, that women are more open, but I think it's also because women have permission to be sexual. And so for women, they might show pictures of, even if I'm attracted to men, I might find women attractive, men attractive.

• 49:24Tom Bilyeu?

  This is the study where they had.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is Meredith.

• 49:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Men have a thing over their penis to tell if it's getting engorged and women have something that measures vaginal moistness.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're, yeah, they're clitoris, they're a gorgement in their clitoris. And so, and then for men, it's like, they are attracted to what they state they are attracted to.

• 49:40Tom Bilyeu?

  So if a guy says, I'm straight, you show him images of straight sex, he's about it.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 49:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Show him images of gay sex, not about it. A woman, on the other hand, because this study is fascinating, what happens?

• 49:51Speaker 01

  The women, they're attracted to everything. They're more open. They're more attracted to different kinds of sexual acts, different kinds of people, sometimes like animals and things, like things just turn them on. They, they're, they're sexual. One reason could be is that, that women also haven't has as much permission to be as sexual and to be, to even stoke their desires and to even think about what turns them on and what arouses them. Because most of our sexuality has sort of been co-opted by, by what men think is hot and what men think is sexy. So I think there's a certain biological.

• 50:25Tom Bilyeu?

  In what way? Just in pornography, you mean?

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Well, I think just everywhere. Like, I think that women are told that they are, that our sexuality has been more policed.

• 50:36Tom Bilyeu?

  So the, from a societal narrative perspective?

• 50:39Speaker 01

  We've been more policed, we've been more told that it's not okay to express desires, that we have to be more passive, we have to be more receptive. And that what we find, no one really ever asked what we found hot or attractive or sexual, because for so many years, we would be persecuted for being sexual. We would be, we would, we're, we're slut shamed. We are, you know, I mean, this is not that long ago that like, women, I mean, really, really, when marriage, women are the property of men. Or like, I know, like in the seventies, like my mom couldn't get a credit card and before the birth control pill, really, we didn't have a lot of options. We really weren't looking at. We weren't free to say, what does feel good to me? What is my turn on? What might I find hot?

• 51:23Speaker 01

  So we're a little bit more open, a little bit more liberal. We can talk about hormones and biology, but then there's also this cultural narrative, cultural structures as well. And it's all sort of this melting pot of attraction, arousal, sexuality, that we're still trying to unpack, I think, to really understand. Like, what is at the core of desire and attraction?

• 51:46Tom Bilyeu?

  So interesting. I want to go back to that study. So I forgot about that study. I read it a while ago. And what absolutely had my brain melted. I remember going to Lisa and being like, oh my, this is crazy. So I have no idea what the stats are. I only have like, uh, the, the sort of subculture whispers. But when I was a kid in the eighties, it was like, the joke was, oh, women, all women experiment with same sex when they're in college.

• 52:18Tom Bilyeu?

  But you start reading these studies and you go, maybe? Like, obviously not all women experiment with women in college, obviously. But that becomes the mythology for a reason. So going back to that study and women's, I'm not even sure how to categorize it, but the fact that they are sexually responsive to a broader array of things than men is very interesting. And I had a, an evolutionary biologist on the show one time. And my parting question to him was, why on God's green earth is the clitoris on the outside? Because Emily, until you understand that women,

• 53:02Tom Bilyeu?

  from an evolutionary perspective, may have used sex as a way to bond for non-procreative reasons, it doesn't make any sense. And then you hear that and you're like, hold the phone. So bonobos, if two women get in a scuffle, to apologize to the other one, she'll walk up and start rubbing her clitoris, which is crazy. But from a human-like, everyday perspective, seems insane. But it was the first time where I was like, oh my God, is that why the clitoris is on the outside? Because-

• 53:42Tom Bilyeu?

  If you think that evolution will end up on the thing that is most likely to ensure that you have kids that have kids, you're like, hold on. So you're telling me that penile thrusting, which by your own admission, something like 20% of women can orgasm from penile thrusting alone.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  It's not the main event.

• 54:01Tom Bilyeu?

  20%.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  It's not the main event. I want to buy a billboard that says that.

• 54:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Insane.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Like literally on Sunset Boulevard.

• 54:08Tom Bilyeu?

  But I can't wrap my head around it. So as I, well, I can, but it ends up with that sexuality from an evolutionary lens. I have no idea if this is true of like modern humans, but from an evolutionary lens, it starts to click into place if that was used for female to female contact.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Hmm. I mean, well, the clitoris, it's interesting because the clitoris is not just external, it's also internal, just to say that, that they're internal.

• 54:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, but if 80% of the orgasms come from the one on the outside, it gets a bit dubious that the main event, as you call it, is putting the penis inside. That's shocking.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's true. But the clitoris, well, it's all, it's all a complex web of nerve endings, but the clitoris has, you know, just.

• 54:54Tom Bilyeu?

  It looks like a neck pillow or a cowboy sitting bow-legged on a horse.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 54:57Tom Bilyeu?

  For anybody that hasn't seen it.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, most people haven't seen it though.

• 55:00Tom Bilyeu?

  And it goes around the vaginal tube.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Exactly. And it has 12,000 nerve endings now, not the 8,000 nerve endings that we thought, because they just started to study it more intensely.

• 55:09Tom Bilyeu?

  I can find another 20,000 here in a minute, I'm sure.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Well, amazing. And you know, like uncircumcised, a circumcised penis only has 4,000 nerve endings. So there is a lot of magic in there.

• 55:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Really good 4,000. I'm going to tell you right now from experience.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  I'm sure they are. I've heard. I've heard. It's great. And they get all the magic too. You guys, there's an orgasm gap where men are having orgasms like 90% of the time.

• 55:27Tom Bilyeu?

  It is so strange to me that evolution said, well, we tested it on the inside because as you know, it does extend inside the woman. It wraps around the vaginal tube, but like, meh, 20%. Eighty percent of the time, you gotta be on the outside. That's just strange to me. Like, just thinking about the thing that makes sure that you have babies is it would make sense that it be inside. Which, so guys, I'm sure you know this, but when you're having an orgasm, you have an intense desire to push as deep as you can. Why? Because it makes her more likely to get pregnant. So, one would think that the woman would be pleasured the deeper you go.

• 56:11Tom Bilyeu?

  But it isn't the main event. She may, but it isn't the main event, going back to that idea.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:18Tom Bilyeu?

  It's so fascinating. Do you, so my hypothesis is, very simply, you're more likely to have social cohesion and thusly other women looking out for your children. If you have an external way to, uh, trigger the release of oxytocin vasopressin, I'm guessing that's certainly what it would be in humans. So that women have a way to bond with other women. That's my hypothesis. I have no idea if that's accurate.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  I don't know that women are supposed to be able to get each other off and we can rub each other and that, that women, because we were all taking care of each other's children in the village.

• 56:48Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm talking purely evolutionary. By the time we get to humans, it may be totally irrelevant. But I'm saying, coming up for millions of years as other animals, it's the only thing I can make sense.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I, I have not, I've not really thought about that notion, but I don't.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  I don't, I mean, I think that though for men though too, I think that we see back in time, I think that it's more cultural. I think that men would be with other men too, if they weren't feeling so policed around their own bodies and their own orgasms. Like, why do men have a prostate?

• 57:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Studies don't show that.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  But why do men have a prostate?

• 57:19Tom Bilyeu?

  To make sure that your semen have something to thrive inside of.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Why does it feel so good when you're penetrated? And why do so many men feel?

• 57:27Tom Bilyeu?

  I've been to the doctor, I wouldn't say that feels so good.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Well, because, you know, it was the wrong place, wrong time.

• 57:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Context, fair enough. And look, it may, and it may be wonderful, and, and there may be other hypotheses around that. But, going back to, men develop sexual fetishes and they're unlikely to change in a way that women don't, which is already interesting. So going back to female flexibility and male inflexibility when it comes to sex. And then, there's also, uh, the study that we were just talking about, where if, if a guy's straight, he's gonna respond to straight images. If he's gay, he's gonna respond to gay images. But- Women just have a broader response. I don't know enough about it to know what's

• 58:04Speaker 01

  We do, right, right. We do have a broader response, but I think that, and that that is true, and that has to, again, with our biology, maybe it's our, our, um, evolutionarily speaking. But I also think there's a way that women's, I mean, yeah, women's sexuality has been more policed and there hasn't been as much permission to explore. And I think that men too, that in some way, men are also told that like, it's not okay to, to experiment or to deviate at all. And that maybe men would find other scenarios and things more attractive. There wasn't this fear of being, you know, being gay or being whatever, like just to explore their other body parts. I think that we've been policed too much.

• 58:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Going back to the reason that the porn thing I think is important is I want to understand how we begin to unwind this. So how do we get out of this death spiral of

• 58:57Tom Bilyeu?

  the people feeling uncomfortable, fearful of making the first move, that the dynamic between men and women is now becoming it. There, there is a price to freedom. Let's say it like that. Because never in a million years would I want to see women move backwards. Would not want them put back in a box. I would not want their sexuality policed. I would want them to be the CEO of the biggest companies in the world, if that's what they want. Like, watching my wife self-actualize has been one of the most beautiful, amazing things I've ever seen in my life. But we had to learn to navigate it. And so when I think about, I had to go through a mourning process when she really started finding that masculine

• 59:41Tom Bilyeu?

  gear. And we had to talk about it. And look, I, I will just be very honest. My wife and I are very high level communicators. And when I think that it was still hard for us, I'm just like, you, you have to put that on the pile of all the things that we're gonna have to work through. And so I think people have to acknowledge that men and women are different. I think people have to realize that you're, you want a partner that you must contend with, which means you want them to be everything they can be. You want them to be your intellectual equal. And at the same time, Women, on average, want a man that can lead, at least sometimes, right? And so that means that the bar is being raised for men, but men are being trained to rise as women rise.

• 1:00:24Tom Bilyeu?

  They're being trained, you're fucking toxic and back off and create space and don't mansplain and all this stuff. I'm saying, I don't think that's the play. I think the play is women be everything you can be. Men be everything you can be. And it's gonna be two very different things. And look, I don't have the answers. I'm just saying.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  I don't think that we've taught men, I don't think that we've given men enough permission to explore their range of emotions and to feel who they are. Like, so I think that we're not, like, I think that we're not saying to men, you are, I mean, I think that hopefully you have heart to men and saying like, we're not saying you're so toxic and we don't want to do these things. I think that we have to give permission to men. I think that men need to lean more into their feminine. I'm gonna, I'm gonna say that there's a book I actually brought for you that my, my friend just wrote this book called, her name's Elise Looney, it's called On Our Best Behavior. And it's about the seven deadly sins. It's called The Price That Women Played To Be Paid To Be Good. And she goes through all of the seven deadly sins and she talks about this way. And there was actually an eighth one. These actually weren't even in the Bible. And the eighth one was sadness and it was left out.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  But sadness is sort of, I think what she, she says in the book is she talks about her theory is that sadness has been this emotion that men have learned to repress and it wasn't okay, going back to little Bobby, don't cry, man up. Don't be a girl, don't, you know, man up, don't feel your emotions. And that when we repress our sadness and we're not told how to experience emotion, that can come out as personality disorders, as toxic masculinity. And I think the more we teach little boys and little girls how to experience the range of emotions together, I think that, that maybe we'll move into a different kind of world, but I think that that's okay. We'll still always have the someone leading, someone following, attraction, desire, arousal. We still have to unpack that and that we're so, men are so afraid of being seen as feminine.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  And that we're told little boys, they can't feel. And so that comes out in other ways. It is not healthy not to experience an emotion, as we know. They stay into our body, they stay in, you know, the issues are in our tissues, the body keeps score. All these books and all these psychologists that have talked about this stuff for a lot, trauma work, and trauma therapy. I know you've talked about some of this, but I do believe that when we repress something, no matter what age it happens, it stays with us, then it comes out in ways that is not the most healing and productive to our culture. And I think the whole world just went through a collective trauma with the pandemic. We were cut from other people. We don't have connection as much. We're staring at our phones, we're staring at our screens, we are not, you know, we don't have the experience of connecting and touching other people. We require touch

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  and connection and intimacy. That's part of being alive, that's part of being healthy. Like, if you go back to evolutionary speaking, we had the tribe, whether it was women with other women and raising to those babies, but we had community. If we don't have touch by somebody else, we start to experience more anxiety, more depression. There was that study at Stanford, I think it was a study about the bunnies. I don't know if you know this study. This is kind of what I remember about, there was this study about these, there was these grad students, I believe they were at Stanford, and they were doing a study around bunny rabbits, and they found that the bunnies, that there was like bunnies on the bottom shelf and bunnies that were on a harder to reach shelf. And the bunnies that were, the students would come in and they were doing this experiment, and the bunnies who actually got touch and were held, they got cuddled,

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  and they got held, but of the bunnies on the top shelf, the bunnies on the bottom shelf fared far better in the study because they had more touch and connection. There's been many more studies around this, but that was the first one that I remember was one of the most impactful ones, is showing that we can't eschew the importance of that. Our hand can only do so much. Computers, visual stimulation, AI, all of that, that at the end of the day, we won't be able to replace that. But I think that since our brains have created so much fear and anxiety around touch and connection and confusion around sexuality.

• 1:04:14Tom Bilyeu?

  What do you think about AI and sex robots, which are going to be real?

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  I think that there's a use for sex robots. I think that for people who can have sex, who are differently abled, who are craving connection and intimacy, you could learn from that, you know, I mean, an AI robot, you could have, give you connection, or could like, perform oral sex for like hours at a time, like, that might be awesome. But I still think that we're gonna need, you know, maybe this is very, I haven't gone as far into it as you have, but I do think that we're still going to be, we can't replicate human connection and touch. But I do think that robots are gonna take over, and that people are not gonna even probably maybe remember what it was like. So I think maybe we're already seeing that. That's what I think. But I think they're happening, they're here, there are sex robots. We're seeing that with porn, we're seeing the two that you have, like,

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  the interactive porn, that the virtual reality porn. I mean, have you tried any of that?

• 1:05:09Tom Bilyeu?

  No.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Don't, you'll never leave your room. I can't believe you.

• 1:05:13Tom Bilyeu?

  That's so funny. I, I, if I had had that when I was a teenager, I would legitimately be terrified. So I remember getting a porn magazine when I was like seventeen, and literally for an entire weekend, nothing existed but that porno. And I can't fathom, if I had access to porn then, like I have access to porn now, like, that would be crazy town. You don't have a developed prefrontal cortex, you have no impulse control, it would feel so awesome, and your brain would begin to hardwire for that, which I am legitimately afraid. You can add that to the list of reasons I don't have kids. When I meet parents now

• 1:05:56Tom Bilyeu?

  that are like, "Oh my god, we just had our first kid," all I can think is, your kid isn't gonna get a driver's license, because cars will drive themselves, and their first sexual experience will almost certainly be with a robot. For real, and I mean that. And they're literally already building real human skin over robot exoskeletons. That's now, without AI. So, like, when you flash forward fifteen, twenty years, it's crazy town.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  It is crazy town. It really is crazy town. Yeah, I've decided to be child free as well, for many reasons, and I do not, my, it is, it is, it is quite a challenge, what's gonna be happening to the kids today. That's true, they're not, they're already seeing that they're not getting their driver's license, they're leaving the house. Which is very different than when we grew up, right? So now these kids who grew up with porn, without any education, they're thinking that's actually sex right now. They're thinking that that, what I see in porn is how sex goes down, they're not realizing that it's scripted.

• 1:06:45Tom Bilyeu?

  So I don't talk to, like, Eighteen ish year olds. By the time I get to them, they're usually in their early twenties. What, what impact is porn really having on sex? Like, I can't fathom that guys think, oh, I can roll up on my first sexual encounter and act like they do in porn. Do they actually?

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  They actually do, Tom. Because where else? If I made, in fact, I have, I've talked to my friend's son, who was eighteen years old. Very smart kid. He got all As in school. I think he was literally going to Harvard in the fall. And, you know, I'm become that person, like that aunt, or that where everyone's kids talks to me about sex. And, and he said to me, he was having sex with his girlfriend, and he was having some problems in the bedroom. In fact, we're seeing more and more young men now with performance anxiety and erectile dysfunction, which we never saw before. And there's a whole bunch of other reasons for that. But he said to me, I, I want to know, like, and I was talking about porn. Do you watch porn? He said, yeah, sometimes. I said, but you realize that that's not real sex. It's like scripted. And he goes, yeah, no, no, I get that. He's like, but

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  where can I see real sex then? Like, like, I get that you're telling me that porn isn't real. But where do I go to see what actually happens? And the truth is, there really isn't. I mean, that's been like a kind of a a mission of mine is I really want to reform sex education and make it much more realistic, but it's, it makes it much more understanding for kids so they, they can, um, whether it's like an app or it's, it's, you know, there's all these

• 1:08:16Tom Bilyeu?

  What would you do without it like being porn? Like, how do you, ethical porn, but still porn? Like, how do you back it off? Like, I remember the Joy of Sex came out. Because of what, it was just you didn't get porn porn. I was like, that might as well have been porn. I was super excited about the Joy of Sex. Hell, yes, count me in. So what would you do?

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  I would talk about, I would talk about your bodies. I would talk about connection. I would, I'd actually show that sometimes sex is funny and awkward and like you make different noises. I would show someone putting on a condom. I would show lubricant. I would teach about, um, which is what I already do. I teach kids about consent. I teach about puberty, their bodies, or I would, I, um, Show that how, you know, I would teach about the women's bodies and how we need more arousal and more foreplay and more like, you know, it takes us a while. Like I often say that men, and again, this is, we're very, men and women, it's harder for me to speak in the binary like this, but it is true that women are more slow cookers and men are more frying pans. Men are gonna get aroused and turn on right away, where women take a little bit longer.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  So I would like to teach about all of that. I would teach about how our bodies work and I would touch, teach about that, like a woman being wet isn't really just mean that she's definitely turned on. You can be wet and not turn on and turn on and not wet. And there's all of these misinformation. I would teach about biology. I would teach about psychology. I would teach about everything.

• 1:09:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Give me, give me some of the hits here. What would we teach about biology and psychology?

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  I would teach about hormones. I would teach about what happens during puberty, that you have like this surge of hormones that are gonna like, you're gonna grow pubic hair. You might have a wet dream, what that means when you get an erection. Do you understand how many boys and girls right now start to have sexual feelings when they're like 12 or 30? And I talk to a lot of parents with kids who are more, who are sexually aware and know a little bit, who know more than, you know, many, but they still do not talk to their kids about masturbation. They do not say, you know, hey, you're gonna get these. So now kids are having, guys are having erections or girls are having orgasms or they're masturbating and they're feeling guilt and shame and they hide it from their, they have to hide it from their

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  parents. They don't understand puberty. They don't understand the surge of hormones, what's happening to their brains, what's happening to their bodies. It's still sort of this like amorphous thing. They kind of get it, but they don't, but mostly it's laced in shame. And it's wrong and it's dirty. Cause parents are so terrified that they actually give kids the accurate information about what's happening. It's like matter of fact, your body's changing, you might have these desires and they totally normalize it, which is what again, going back to the Dutch countries, if there's other places, please let me know. I think that, you know, but this is what we all study in my field, sexologists and. You know, human sexuality, that there really aren't that many places that are teaching as well, that it's just normal. It shouldn't be so mysterious. So you would just kind of talk about it as it happens. We're not saying that you're teaching kids at five years old how to have intercourse or where babies are made,

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  but you're teaching them as they come up, what's happening to their bodies, their emotions, and just about their, their parts, and what it all means. So I would just talk about the reality of it, and I would do it all the time, ongoing. It's not just a one-time thing. It's not a one class. So that's, that's how I would teach it. I would infiltrate into the entire system of education and what we teach about like history and math and science and, and, and sexual health and wellness.

• 1:11:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Talk to me about the slow cooker versus being a frying pan. That mismatch is hysterical, a very cruel twist of fate. But walk me through people in a relationship, how do they navigate that? How do you do that well?

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  I mean, okay, so I also, for my audience, my listeners, I would get in trouble. I, I would be, this is where I would get backlash, because the truth is, there are just as many men who are, take longer to get aroused and turned on, especially in a longer-term relationship.

• 1:12:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Just as many?

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say not just many, but many, many have more. So what we're talking about is-

• 1:12:06Tom Bilyeu?

  And why, especially in a long-term relationship?

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  Well, I think in long-term relationships is when our sex drive starts to, to wane, because we no longer have the newness and the, the novelty and the desire, and we don't have as much variety. I mean, that's what we crave, okay? So when everything's new at the beginning-

• 1:12:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Men and women equally.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  Equally.

• 1:12:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting. I would have said men have a way higher desire for novelty than women.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Well, you know, there have been some studies. I have a friend named Wednesday Martin, who wrote a book called Untrue, basically everything you want to know about sex is untrue. And she actually has, has studies that show that women in long-term relationships actually crave more variety than men.

• 1:12:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting.

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  So there had, she's, you would love her book, because there's a lot more like science and studies and evolutionary psychology and biology in it, and she- Talks a lot about this fact that, that, that, and I think that's fascinating too, that women actually crave that. We want something that's different and new and novel. So, we, we've learned a lot. You have to remember that the study of human sexuality is still very much in its infant stages. I mean, we have like the Kinsey Institute, right? I mean, which came out in the late 50s, at least in America. And a lot of what Freud did was harmful, right? There's different kinds of orgasms and women that have hysteria.

• 1:13:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Wait, wait, there are different kinds of orgasms.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  There are different kinds of orgasms, sorry, but there was one superior to the other ones that like gee, like the, a, um, a clitoral orgasm was like an infant orgasm and an internal orgasm was a more mature orgasm and that women would go into their doctor's offices and they would feel like they had this, something going wrong and they called that women's desire was hysteria and men would start to, their doctors would use vibrators to bring them to orgasm. That was sort of the advent of vibrators. There's like a whole misunderstanding about female sexuality. So it's still a very much an emerging science and study. We don't spend a lot of time or money of our resources studying sexuality, which is why when I was halfway through writing Smart Sex,

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  the study came out that there were 12,000 nerve endings and not 8,000. I mean, this is what, I mean, I'm working with somebody who just invented the clitoragram.

• 1:14:10Tom Bilyeu?

  This, this what?

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  Dr. Marashi just invented the clitor- clitoragram, which is studying, it's, it studies the clitoris. It's like, kind of like a sonogram or a, but it's for your clitoris. You can go in and have your clitoris studied.

• 1:14:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Like it, it maps it?

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  It maps your clitoris, yep.

• 1:14:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Is it imaging?

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  It's imaging.

• 1:14:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Whoa.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 1:14:29Tom Bilyeu?

  I still want to get that done to Lisa.

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  Don't you? I know, me too. I'm going to New York. I'm going to go do it, really. So, we, we really haven't studied it at all. It wasn't until 1998 that the clitoris was even in, in medical, in manuals and in medical school. In fact, doctors up until.

• 1:14:46Tom Bilyeu?

  98?

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  1998.

• 1:14:48Tom Bilyeu?

  98?

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  1998.

• 1:14:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Whoa.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  The clitoris wasn't even on the map, literally.

• 1:14:55Tom Bilyeu?

  That is shocking.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  No, listen, I'm saying it's still very, very, very new. Ninety-eight.

• 1:15:00Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm really glad that I read a lot of Cosmo as a kid. My mom gave me really good advice. And it was like, hey, look, men and women are different. You need to go learn about women. So I started reading everything I could get my hands on. That was like behind enemy line stuff. And Cosmo was just like, this is a joke. Guys don't even know where the clitoris is. So I was like, yo, I'm gonna know where that fucking clitoris is. And look, I will pat myself on the back. My wife was like, man, I'm just never gonna have an orgasm. I guess it's not meant for me. And then she met me and I was like, homie, I'm telling you, this, this is the only spot we have to pay attention to.

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  This is my life's work.

• 1:15:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, literally. And she was like, a round of applause for this young man, please. And yeah, look, there are still some great differences in terms of time to orgasm.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  So men typically are more spontaneous, right? So maybe you see Lisa walk in the room and you are spontaneously turned on.

• 1:15:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  And ready for sex. You're like, she's hot. That's my wife. I wanna go.

• 1:15:57Tom Bilyeu?

  She bumps into my penis. I'm ready.

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:16:00Tom Bilyeu?

  It's hilarious.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  That doesn't happen for women as much.

• 1:16:03Tom Bilyeu?

  And it makes me very sad.

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  I know. We respond to things happening in our environment. Now, and there's a lot of factors, and this is the pillars that I write about in Smart Sex. I talk about this pillars of sexual intelligence because what I get to in my book is that there are all of these factors and we need to, it is our, it is our duty as sexual beings, I think, to understand all the factors have to come into play to make us ready for sex, to get us in the mood for sex and all the things that's keeping us from being in the mood for sex. It's keeping us the mood for desire. So for men, that's where we are very different. Like you see her, you're turned on, you're ready to go. It's external. Your penis reacts. There's a direction. Well, for women. We're a little bit more complicated. I would say the vagina is like the Rubik's Cube

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  of life. It's very confused, like buttons and knobs and things that are happening. And there's like so many things to understand, which again, lack of information, 1998, Clarice gets on the map. We don't really even understand all of this stuff. And there's a lot of different, there's always new theories coming out all the time, but this theory of responsive desire and spontaneous desire is one way to start. So we respond to stimuli. So why need things to happen? And what we even understand is brain being the largest sex organ next to the skin. I get pushed back for that sometimes. The skin is also a sex organ, but the brain, when you think about what I'm trying to say is our brain has to be on board for sex.

• 1:17:22Tom Bilyeu?

  I was gonna say, like, your skin can be as exposed and touched as it wants. If the brain isn't on board, you're dust.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  You're dust. We have to keep our own pile of light lit. We gotta keep ourselves. So let's go back to the brain. So I need to understand that what's gonna get me in the mood for sex? So I'm not responding, but let's say you, okay, so you're turned, you see Lisa, you're turned on. I, you know, or Lisa, maybe she's finishing an email. She's still in a meeting. She's got stuff going on. Her brain doesn't work that way. She's not ready to go like that. But what might need to happen is she needs to, like, remember earlier, I was talking about my feminine energy? Like, I know now that for me, if I walk into a room, like my partner's house, and it's my boyfriend's house, and it's cold, it's just, and I think it's just better to give solid examples so people get what I'm talking about. If it's cold in his house, for example, I completely

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  shut down my blood flow step because blood flow is a huge part of orgasm and arousal. I'm cold, I'm shivering. If it's messy in there, if we have an unresolved issue we haven't talked about, I am nowhere near ready for sex. I don't care what he does, or how hot he looks, and he walks in the door. My brain has not done all the, has not worked all the factors and all the pillars I talk about in Text Q are not lined up for me to be ready for sex. We just don't work. I may, I need to be built up towards sex. So those are the things that are gonna keep me from sex. What I need to understand as a sexual being who wants to be a great partner is I need to understand, well, what do I need to be, what, how do I optimize my desire and my arousal? My desire, like, how do I get myself? And we often conflate desire and arousal, so I kind of use them

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  interchangeably, but the desire is the wanting to have sex. Like, I want it or I don't. And the arousal is how our bodies responding to sexual stimuli. But I need to know in my slow cooker self. Like what are, this is why we always say like foreplay and like, oh God, foreplay again is your biggest, is your number one tip. Well, yeah, we, it's, I always say foreplay is not a suggestion, like, oh, maybe foreplay with dice. It's actually a requirement. We need the things that are going to build us up for many women to get us towards that.

• 1:19:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Here, here's the difficult thing. Foreplay for a guy, literally just touch my genitals. Like, that's, that's all.

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  For many guys, that's it.

• 1:19:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Yep. So, but with women.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  Not all. I gotta talk to you for some guys, not all.

• 1:19:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, give me, give me a rough percentage. I'm gonna say 94% of guys, if you go straight for the bullseye, you're gonna be in good shape.

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  I would say not every single time, if he's feeling stressed, anxiety, in a long-term relationship.

• 1:19:52Tom Bilyeu?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  I would say overall, I just have to be very careful of speaking in absolutes in my, in my, uh,

• 1:19:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, the, the same thing has to just, if I'm freezing, I don't wanna have sex. So, no doubt, there are things that have to be right.

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  But you might get a, you might be freezing and then Lisa walks in the room and you're ready to have sex. But for me, there's a lot of different things.

• 1:20:12Tom Bilyeu?

  But there, there are things that like will matter to me. I'm just saying, once, like, once there's no sort of obvious barrier, you're still not in the go zone with a woman. You still need more buttons to be pressed, as you said.

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 1:20:26Tom Bilyeu?

  And so the question becomes, are there universal buttons to press? Or is it gonna be just completely different and you need to?

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  Well, here's the thing, it is different from person to person, from woman to woman, we're gonna want different things. But some of the things that are universal, I would say, is, we wanna feel safe.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  Safety is a big part of our arousal process. Like, is this someone that I feel safe with, that I can trust? Not that I can't get turned on with someone new and the bad boy, that's something different. But I think, there's so many different ways to answer this question, but like in a longer-term relationship, or in any relationship, I think if we feel safe, if we feel, we wanna slower build up. That's why we love like making out, or kissing, or going slow.

• 1:21:06Tom Bilyeu?

  Is it just slow, or is it those things? Kissing, touching, eye gazing?

• 1:21:11Speaker 01

  I think it's all of those things, they're all like kind of connected, but I think slower is better. And in fact, when guys often ask me, what's your top sex advice? In a pinch, I would say like, if you met, I'd say go five times slower than you think. Because you're aroused, you're turned on, you're a frying pan, you're ready to go. I didn't even see you walk in the door and now my clothes are off and you're ready to go. You're pounding away, a guy's pounding away at me. I'm like, I, there is nowhere that I was ready to go. I needed all of these things. I needed to feel safe. I needed to have my breath regulated. Maybe I wanted to make eye contact. I wanted to start to get my body on board for sex by like slow touching, maybe touching over my clothes because again stimulating all those

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  nerve endings. Maybe my nipples, my vulva, like there's all of these feel-good places on the body that when stoked or stroked will start to kind of build the arousal.

• 1:22:04Tom Bilyeu?

  And assuming the person knows you well and you have trust and you're warm and all of that, is it, and they know the exact places that you like to be touched, is it still just it's a matter of time and like the, the energy begins to transfer like in these slow waves and there is no way to speed it up? Or is it like once those things are taken for granted because this is a long-term partner and you know them well, does it shorten?

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  That's just part of it though. No, because listen though, if we're in a relationship, because this is one of the pillars, but let's say we haven't communicated about sex. We haven't communicated about anything, but particularly, you know, maybe I have some resentments and I'm really mad at you because you said you were gonna come home early and you didn't come home early or like last week you did something that pissed me off. That's also gonna build up and that's gonna keep me from no matter what you do to me. You could do all those moves that I love. My partner could do everything that he knows that turns me on, but if I'm pissed and I'm holding on to a resentment and I have something that I've been wanting to say to him or I, I feel, you know, or I haven't been, here's the other thing, that, that I won't be as turned on. Or if I'm not in shape, I haven't been moving my body, I haven't been exercising, I've been eating foods that make me feel bad rather than feel good. I've had an unhealthy

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  diet, haven't been exercising. I don't feel confident in my body. You could be doing all the things and I'm still not going to be turned on. So it's multi-layered, it's complex, which is why after almost 20 years of doing this work, I went down to write this book and I was like, okay, I'm going to write down every single tip I have on sex because I have many and one of my sweet spots is literally anybody who call me or come up to me and say, I've got this sex problem and I could give you the next thing to do. I could say, have a, a lot of it is communication. Talk to your partner about this thing. Try this, you know, maybe you should go off this medication. Maybe you should deal with your shame. You had a religious upbringing, let's look at that. But what I realized at the end of the day, people, when it comes to sex, they want a quick fix.

• 1:23:59Speaker 01

  They want to be out the door, but it's not a quick fix for sex. There's not one thing that's going to happen every single time. So I put together these pillars of that's going to help people boost their sex IQ and understand what's going to make me feel sexually intelligent throughout my lifetime. What do I need to understand? And so I actually broke it down into five pillars and they all are going to contribute to this slow cooker frying pan scenario, especially for women, the slow cooker and even the frying pan. Because you're not going to be able to get erect if you have been, if you're on a certain medication, let's say, if you haven't been exercising, if you've been eating foods that aren't, aren't healthy. If you might be, have a lot of anger, a lot of stress. I think people don't understand that there's bio-individuality when it comes to arousal,

• 1:24:43Speaker 01

  your sex life, and that there are all these factors that are contributing. How embodied you are, your overall health and wellness, your mental health and your physical health, your confidence level, your self-knowledge, how well do you know yourself? Do you know what turns you on? And then your ability to collaborate and communicate.

• 1:25:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Can you give us a breakdown of the five pillars?

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  So the first one is embodied. How in my body am I in life during sex? So when I'm having sex, am I feeling my partner's skin against mine? Or am I in my head disassociating and thinking about the last porn that I had? That level of embodiment, which fluctuates, you never get to a place where you're always embodied, but that's the first pillar. Do I, do I feel connected to my body during sex? The second one is your health, your overall mental health and your physical health. So that would be, do I, am I exercising? Am I moving my body? Have I had therapy to deal with any untreated traumas? Because untreated trauma doesn't go away. It just gets more progressive and worse over time. The third pillar is self-acceptance. Do I accept my body where I'm at?

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  My penis size, my breasts, how my bodies change over time? The sexual experience I have till now? Do I accept myself? That's really confidence. That's linked to confidence, how confident I am in my body. The next one was self-knowledge. Do I know, after all my sexual history? What I actually require to be turned on? Do I need dirty talk? Do I need the room to be at a certain temperature? Do I need the dishes to be out of the sink? Do I need to feel safe with a partner? For a lot of, for a lot of people, and I guess I hear I could use gender because we're doing that more so. But for women, if the house is a mess, and maybe for men too. House is a mess, the dishes are in the sink, I haven't finished my tasks? There's no way in hell I'm having sex. But if I know that about myself? I'm not worried that my partner's mad at me, doesn't find me attractive anymore? Because I know that like the dishes were in the sink and that didn't make it hot.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  And then the fifth one is collaboration. How well do I, am I comfortable talking to my partner about I, what I want in bed? Do I need to tell him like, I don't like it when you do that move? Or I actually require 20 minutes of oral sex? Or I'm going to need a vibrator tonight? I need lubricant. Um, I need you to slow down. Most couples, and I will say this, I would say that 98% of couples do not have healthy conversations about sex. If at all. They don't know how to do it, they don't have any models of it, we don't see it in our culture. So every time someone has a sex question, in my head, I run through these things. And I wanted to give people permission and the power to figure it out, to kind of look at this and say, okay, what's actually going on in my body, in my mind, in my spirit now?

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  So I can figure out what I need to be sexually turned on. So those are all the contributing factors, which again, for many people that might seem like obvious or of course, but after I figured it for all these years, I'm telling you that people are shocked to find out that a certain medication they're taking, like an antidepressant, is going to impact their ability to get aroused, or that if they're eating a shitty diet and unhealthy food, that's going to impact their blood flow. So they might not have erections like they like to, or you know, if they have trauma, or they don't talk about sex, or they grew up in a shameful household, that's going to impact their ability. Being a great lover doesn't have to do with how much sex you've had, and how you know, the mindset around sex is not about like, you know, I always say like, you have to be with somebody and you'll

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  appreciate that has a growth mindset around sex. If you're with somebody and most people, I would say have a fixed state, they believe that sex is one thing and one way, and that's what's harming people's sex life, and why I think we're in a sex recession.

• 1:28:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Hmm. It's really interesting. Communication is a very big deal. Um, speaking to the erectile dysfunction thing, one thing that I heard really early on that kept me quite sober is if you have erectile dysfunction, it is, it could be medication or something like that. People should definitely get that checked, but it, it could also be a sign of vascularity problems, which could be a sign of heart disease. It's not a coincidence that Viagra was discovered when they were trying to make a heart medication. Um, so very, very interesting. The psychological components around the body is also very interesting. People getting in their own head, how to look from this angle. I've heard you say that before. Um, yeah, that's very interesting.

• 1:28:56Tom Bilyeu?

  So how do you help people pass that? When somebody has a hang up about themselves, how do you help them get to the other side?

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  Like if they think about their body, like we're talking about like the self-acceptance part, hang up or anything. I mean, the thing is, is working on their, their, their confidence, which again, seems, you know, we all know, like that's an inside job, but it's the first it's a kind of decoding, what are the messages that I'm telling myself about my body? Well, first, let me talk about, you know, penises. Okay. I think that your listeners are going to appreciate this, Tom, is that men I have found are way more obsessed with their penises than women are.

• 1:29:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, that is almost certainly true.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  We are not, like literally, well, we already talked about the fact that only 20% of us are going to have an orgasm with anything that has to do with your penis. Okay. So that's one thing. So I think just kind of education, knowledge, understanding like what really matters in the bedroom and what doesn't. Um, it really helps to have more to realize like if you listen, so if you're walking around all day, I hate my body. I don't like the way I look. My left boot is bigger than my right boot. I've gained weight. I don't feel sexy. I'm stupid. And all day long, you're telling yourself specifically, let's say negative conditioning around your body. And then you get into the bedroom with someone, you're supposed to be naked and you're like, how am I, I'm, what, how am I going to be turned on right now? How, how can you expect to be turned on when you've been having these negative messages?

• 1:30:12Speaker 01

  So you have to flip the script and flipping the script is replacing it with more body positive, body, and I even don't even say body positive. I say body neutrality. At least try to be neutral because to say you're going to love your body is a far stretch for many people. But even being accepting of it and saying like, when you're walking past the mirror, like, what is something that I love about my body? What is it that I even like? Do I appreciate that my legs are getting me, you know, are allowing me to walk through my home right now? Does my hair look good today? Like, what is something, you know, I like my ears. I've got pretty eyes. What can you do so you can, what can you find in your body that you love? How do you change, unfollow people on social media who make you feel bad about yourself? Um, you know, I think it's having affirmations in your phone, like even writing positive,

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  like I'm a sexual being that's deserving of pleasure. My body is built, you know, I can, I, I deserve to be, you know, sexual health and wellness is part of my overall, you know, well-being, you know, continuing to like replace negative conditioning with positive conditioning, picking partners that make you feel good about yourself, not bad about yourself, finding other penises and vulvas. There's some amazing artwork out there that actually shows, I mean, listen, if we're, young people now are just seeing what they see in porn. Like it makes sense that a lot of men aren't feeling great about their penises and a lot of women aren't feeling great about their vaginas or their vulvas. Their vulva is the external part of the vagina because you only see certain parts, but everyone is a little bit different, right? So I would say like finding, surround yourself

• 1:31:40Speaker 01

  with sex positive voices, affirmations, realizing, and also here's the other thing is masturbation. Masturbation is a huge part of being sexually well and healthy. And when you start to realize that you can learn your own body, and I, I tell this, I don't often have to remind men to masturbate, but for women, I think like I, they're often like, oh, I didn't, it didn't occur to me. Again, we're slow cookers. I don't just get hit over the head by it. But for women, when I realize, when I teach them or talk to them about it, like, Start to masturbate and start to understand your own body. Become the expert in your own machinery. You be responsible for your own orgasm. You're responsible for your own pleasure. And once you start to do that, it's the most empowering thing in the world. Because not only do you realize, I can give myself pleasure and orgasms.

• 1:32:25Speaker 01

  But then when you're with a partner, you know exactly what to do. You know what to tell them. You know how to feel more confident. You know what feels good and what is actually possible. So then you're not, you know, I think that really helps with the, the lack of confidence part. Because you know, I know how this thing goes. I know what I need to be turned on. So it's a bunch of the, a few of those things really help.

• 1:32:49Tom Bilyeu?

  I would imagine so. Going back, I'm going to ask you directly. How is it possible that size doesn't matter?

• 1:32:56Speaker 01

  I mean, for some women, it feels really great to be filled up. And it would be great to have a, a, a large penis. That's a preference thing. It can impact all of the nerve endings and that can be great. But really, for the woman, the vagina, the, the inner two thirds of vagina are the most sensitive. So if anything, like girth can be important. But when we talk about the way that there's women are going to have more pleasure and more orgasms. I think having a lover that is more attentive, pays attention, is focused on pleasure and arousal and understanding all the things that make us feel good. I think we would prioritize that kind of lover way over penis size.

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  And for some women, what I've heard over time, in the almost two decades I've been doing this, I hear from way more women who are with someone who's way too big and it's painful. And they can, I hear from more men too. Like, I literally can't stick it in because it's so painful than, than from like, this penis was too small. And what am I going to do about it? And I'm not saying that it doesn't matter for some, just like large breasts. There are some men who only want to be with a woman with large breasts. Because of someone with small breasts, that's just not attractive to them. They won't get turned on. That's not interesting. So for some women, a guy with a smaller penis. Won't be interesting to them, won't be hot, won't be their partner. But for others, I think it's preference, really.

• 1:34:21Tom Bilyeu?

  I have a theory on this.

• 1:34:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:34:23Tom Bilyeu?

  I'll call it.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  You've got a lot of theories, which I love you this about you, Tom.

• 1:34:26Tom Bilyeu?

  I do. I don't understand how people don't formulate theories online. Anyway, I'm always trying to fix my prediction engine.

• 1:34:32Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 1:34:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, I have a foot shoe model of penis vagina compatibility.

• 1:34:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:34:38Tom Bilyeu?

  And I have a theory. I, I don't have enough personal data to know for sure, but I've got enough to know I'm, I'm on the right track. Uh, that there are probably just as many insides of vaginas as there are outsides of penises. And while it may not be exactly one for one in that you have somebody that is literally your mirror. That there's going to be somebody who fits whatever you have. So if you're Captain Gigantor, there's going to be somebody who's perfect for you. And if you're on the smaller size, there's going to be somebody for you. Now, whether you find that person is a whole nother thing.

• 1:35:19Tom Bilyeu?

  But I have a feeling that that's closer to the truth than just it doesn't matter. But I agree with you. So I learned very quickly that at least my wife is not as interested in penises as I would like her to be. I got out of the shower and I was standing buck naked. If my wife just got out of the shower and is naked, guaranteed I'm checking everything out and I'm happy to do it. And I wouldn't like, I wouldn't even have to think to check her out. I just would. My eyes would just naturally wander. And so I'm standing there, talking to her buck naked. And she doesn't even glance down, not once. And we're just having a normal conversation and I'm tracking her eyes because I'm like, she's going to look, she's going to look, she's going to look. And, uh, she never once looked down and my heart broke.

• 1:36:05Tom Bilyeu?

  And in that moment, I, I said to her at the end, I was like, wow, you didn't even glance down. And she was like, oh geez, I didn't even think about it. And I was like, what? I'm like standing here naked and it did not even cross your mind. And I was like, wow, she's really not kidding. Like it just isn't her thing. She is not wired for the visual side of this. Now, like I said, when I was young, my mom gave me great advice. So I already knew focus on the brain, focus on the mind. My mom gave me the best piece. I've said this so many times to my audience. My mom gave me the best piece of advice about sex I've ever gotten. You said it here today, which is she, my mom said point blank. For a woman to have an orgasm, she has to trust you. And I was like, what? I'm sorry. That just, it didn't make any sense.

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  She didn't say about your penis, right?

• 1:36:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Like how those two are related, what they, it, it would be like, uh, for a woman to have an orgasm, uh, Walter Cronkite has to be on TV somewhere. And you're like, why? What did the two have to do with each other? I was very confused by that. Obviously, I'm not anymore, but at the time I really did not understand that. They just seemed like two totally unrelated phenomena. Uh, so yeah, for anybody out there with insecurities around that, I would say probably not the first thing on her mind. If you make her feel loved, seen, desired, secure, et cetera, et cetera.

• 1:37:23Speaker 01

  Exactly. And yeah, it is true. That's like, really, there's so many other factors that are involved with, with sex. But I, it's interesting, your lid for every pot or your penis for every vagina analogy. Cause I'm thinking about that, but it's just, it's funny cause I, I just, again, that harkens back to the fact that sex, sex as we know it has been so focused on procreation. And when really I think of sex as eroticism and sex as touch and desire, and one of my missions is to make sex less about procreation, less about procreation, less about penis and vagina penetration, but more about exploring and more about eroticism and touch. And, and like, you know, so many times couples are craving

• 1:38:05Speaker 01

  sex, but I really think they're craving intimacy or connection. And sometimes massage can be a great way to connect. And maybe that will lead into sex. But we are just focusing on this penetrative act. This is when we're seeing so many women just silently suffering through this problem around not having, you know, having low desire, not having orgasm, faking orgasm, this orgasm gap. So we can expand our definition into, of sex into like eroticism and pleasure overall. I think that we'd have a lot more, you know, satisfied women. And so maybe there is a, you know, penis for every vagina, but I just. I just think, once we give more information to women, like, that's really just, I'm gonna say

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  again, like, size, it's not about that. I mean, it's a nice to have, I think, for many, but, once you have, you start to understand more, you realize that it's just, it's a nice to have, but it's not everything. Sex in our twenties is different than sex in our thirties, in our forties, in our fifties. And, sex, week to week, is changing, especially for women, in our twenty-eight day cycle. I mean, if women start to track, they still understand that, for many, during ovulation, they're more aroused and turned on, when they actually get their period, less so. We all get to decide who we are as sexual beings and track it. So I think, once you realize that it's not that, that there's so many things involved

• 1:39:32Speaker 01

  with sex, so that it's gonna change over our lifetime, that there's all these factors, like I talk about in the pillars, that to pay attention to. Like, I think, everything is realizing that sex is changing, and growing, and so are our bodies, and it's about hormones, and it's about connection and intimacy, and it's an important part of our health and wellness, that we have to constantly be, continually be monitoring, without resistance, and thinking that it's some magical, magic bullet thing. There really isn't one, except for some vibrators work really well.

• 1:40:03Tom Bilyeu?

  I love it. That's smart sex, everybody. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace. Let's talk about a pattern that is guaranteed to be killing your progress. You know what you need to do. You need consistent nutrition, we all do. You need vitamins, probiotics, greens. We all know that we should be doing more of it. When your morning gets chaotic, you skip it. When you travel, you skip it. When your routine breaks, everything tends to break, and that inconsistency compounds against you every single day. AG1 is designed to solve the execution problem. One scoop, eight ounces of water, and you're done. You're getting seventy-five plus ingredients, vitamins and minerals, pre and probiotics, nutrient

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