#221 Joe Pyfer - UFC 17-Sec KO Secrets, Meeting Mike Tyson and Terrifying Childhood Stories

Joe Pyfer, born in Vineland, New Jersey, is an American professional mixed martial artist competing in the UFC's Middleweight division, nicknamed "Bodybagz" for his devastating knockout power. Raised in a challenging environment marked by abuse and homelessness, Pyfer began training in martial arts at age four, starting with jiu-jitsu and judo, and later wrestling in high school. Turning pro in 2018, he captured the Art of War and ROC middleweight titles before earning a UFC contract on Dana White's Contender Series in 2022 with a second-round TKO. With a record of 14-3, including nine knockouts and three submissions, Pyfer has delivered highlight-reel finishes in the Octagon, earning Performance of the Night bonuses for wins over Alen Amedovski, Abdul Razak Alhassan, and Marc-André Barriault. His latest victory came via unanimous decision against Kelvin Gastelum at UFC 316 in June 2025. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://americanfinancing.net/srs NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org https://tryarmra.com/srs https://meetfabric.com/shawn https://shawnlikesgold.com https://ketone.com/srs Visit https://ketone.com/srs for 30% OFF your subscription order https://lumen.me/srs https://masachips.com/srs – USE CODE SRS https://patriotmobile.com/srs https://rocketmoney.com/srs https://ROKA.com – USE CODE SRS https://USCCA.com/srs https://ziprecruiter.com/srs https://betterhelp.com/srs This episode is sponsored. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/srs and get on your way to being your best self. https://drinkhoist.com – USE CODE SRS Joe Pyfer Links: IG - https://www.instagram.com/joepyfer UFC Profile - https://www.ufc.com/athlete/joe-pyfer Journey to the UFC: Joe Pyfer debuts on Daily Wire+ July 25th Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  On October 2nd.

• 0:04Speaker 00

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  Tom Cruise is.

• 0:10Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 0:16Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped doing it? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 0:24Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not admitted without parent.

• 0:35Shawn Ryan?

  Joe Pfeifer, welcome to the show, man.

• 0:37Speaker 05

  Thank you so much. Like a kid in a candy shop.

• 0:42Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I'm pumped about this. I am pumped about this. And, uh, you know, you know what I'm really excited about for this is your upbringing. And, uh, is, you know, as we were discussing downstairs, you know, I just, I didn't grow up like that. And, um, I mean, I didn't have it easy, but I didn't grow up like that. And, uh, and, you know, just like through this show, man, I, I had no idea how many people, how many kids go through some type of abuse, whether it's physical abuse, sexual abuse, or verbal abuse. And like it's, it's, I picked up on that years ago when I first started this. How many kids go through shit like that?

• 1:27Shawn Ryan?

  And then to see people break generational curses and, and, and pull out of that, I mean, it's, I'm not going to say it's unheard of, but the majority of people never make it out, you know? And, and so to bring somebody like you on, you know, it just, with everything that you've been through as a kid, I mean, it just brings so much hope to other children that are going through that. And, and it, it proves to them that there's, there's a way out of that. So that's. That's the biggest thing that I want to interview you about and that that it just I just commend you, you know, for pulling through it. And I know this is gonna, this is gonna bring a lot of hope to a lot of people, man. So thank you for being here and and being

• 2:12Shawn Ryan?

  giving us a window into into your life.

• 2:14Speaker 05

  Of course, man, it's a I'm an open book with it. And I think the best thing I can do is share the story. So it can inspire kids that are voiceless and don't have a way to express or don't know how, you know, I can only speak on my journey and what I've done with my, I guess, pain and struggle that I've turned it into, you know, something that I can be successful at and obviously go and provide a way for myself to live. But yeah, I mean, it's, I think it's wildly more popular than everybody thinks. And mine's kind of average compared to the abuse cases, you know, so I'm just fortunate that I had good people around me and, you know, as we'll get into it. Yeah, I still have the same

• 2:57Speaker 05

  long life friendships and the same people right next to me. So I'm excited to tell it and share it and, you know, dive into it.

• 3:05Shawn Ryan?

  Good deal. Good deal. Well, everybody starts off with an introduction here. So Oh, I know I'm lost.

• 3:13Shawn Ryan?

  Joe Pfeifer, a UFC middleweight contender with a professional record of 14 and 3, UFC record of 5 and 1, secured a UFC contract after a knockout performance on Dana White's Contender Series after some significant setbacks. Known for your knockout power and relentless drive, earning you three Performance of the Night bonuses, the subject of the acclaimed documentary Journey to the UFC, directed by your longtime friend Chandler Henry, who won Best Feature Length Documentary at the 2024 Garden State Film Festival. You know, and

• 3:50Shawn Ryan?

  Got a couple of other things to get through in the interview, but I read, I read somewhere that you reject the title or the label role model.

• 3:59Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 3:59Shawn Ryan?

  And, you know, I just, I wanted to ask you why, why you reject that label because and here's, here's why I'm asking because you know, just in our conversations downstairs and through the research of, you know, um, of your life story for this interview. I mean, in my opinion, that's what you are, man. You are a phenomenal athlete. And people look up to that. And, you know, we just talked about your upbringing and I mean, you, dude, you are a fucking role model for kids. You're a role model for everybody. Whether you like it or not, but more specifically like what matters, you know, is, is

• 4:42Shawn Ryan?

  what matters to me is there's just not that many athletes that people can look up to these days that are decent human beings, do the right thing, that have been through hard times. And you're one of them, man. And, uh, so I just wanted to ask you, you know, why do you reject the title role model?

• 4:58Speaker 05

  I think I reject the, the title role model for, uh, a couple of things. And I think one of them is that I'm an imperfect person. And I don't like to view myself as a role model. I'm just a guy that is passionate about what he does and wants to reach the highest level. And I want to find out what my limits are, you know, I have no idea if I'll be a world champion. I have the belief. I'll be a world champion. But I make mistakes, right? I say some things that people don't like. Um, so I don't think I'm fit to deserve. I guess the title of a role model. Um, and I'm not sure if any human is really fit to be a role model, but I definitely believe I can be an inspiration. I hope I could be a little ignite, uh,

• 5:38Speaker 05

  ignite like a little fire in somebody's heart to go and try and whether it's fighting or whether it's soccer or. Something with school where you can go and try to reach the highest, the highest level. So, uh, I think it just bothers me being a role model because I know I'm not the best person in the world. Right. But I don't steal from people. I don't hurt people for no reason. And I don't think that, um, I've ever gone out of my way to do so. So I think an inspiration is the, the safest way for me to be because I think this world is very judgmental, obviously. And, um, yeah, I don't know. I just don't think that I'm worthy of being a role model. I think my story's inspirational and, um, I think my career's been inspirational, you know, just a little bit of stats that you read off as someone who's only 28 years old,

• 6:22Speaker 05

  who's only been in the UFC for two and a half years. And, um, yeah, and I think my story's inspirational, but I don't know if it's a role model type.

• 6:33Shawn Ryan?

  It is, you know, but being a role model, I mean, that is a, that is a responsibility that nobody asks for. Your fans are the ones that deem you the role model, not you. And, uh, you carry yourself very well. Say some things that, you know what I mean? That a lot of people, what, whatever, man, it's your beliefs and, and, and, you know, we see so many people in society and politics and Hollywood and sports and fuck everywhere. You know, that, that are scared to speak their mind and say what's actually on their mind and, and that is, that's becoming lost on the American people. So, I mean, I, I mean, I think, you know, from what I know about you and, and what I'm about to learn, I'm, I, I,

• 7:16Shawn Ryan?

  but from what I know right now, you are a great person and, uh,

• 7:20Speaker 05

  The one, the one thing I will say as far as the role model too is I think the reason I say that is if there's gonna be a role model type, um,

• 7:32Speaker 05

  yeah, it's very hard. I guess the role model type would be like, How I never quit, like that could be a role model type part, but as far as just being the person, but you know, there's, there's often when we talk about athletes as being role models. I don't think there is a lot of role models as athletes as like what we're saying, but I think it's because everybody wants all the glory and then they forget who they are. And they fall in love with this identity of I'm an athlete or I'm somebody famous or I'm a sager and then they start treating people less than them. I probably, I treat everybody the same. If you give me respect, I give you respect. And if you treat me like shit, I treat you like shit. Um, but I'm not going to go out of my way to be spiteful or anything like that. Um, so, but I do have, I do have that, that other side of me. So.

• 8:18Shawn Ryan?

  We all do, don't we?

• 8:19Speaker 05

  That other side of me. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, you know, I'm not a perfect person and that's why I say about the role models, cause I will fuck up and, um, you know, I will say things that people don't like that can be controversial. I've had that recently in my career. Um, I got some funny names, poopy pants piper, salty Joe piper. You know, all kinds of stuff. So, yeah, Mexico did me dirty, man. So, uh, but yeah, no, it's, it's, you know, but I do think that my story is inspirational. And I think the part, if you want to take anything and list that as a role model, you know, I would say the friendships that I have is the best thing to mimic, which is putting good people around you that, you know, aren't yes men, uh, that don't kiss your ass just because of success or just because of spotlight.

• 8:59Speaker 05

  Um, and actually care about you as a human being, aside from your performances, especially in this sport. Um, so, yeah.

• 9:07Shawn Ryan?

  Man, kudos to you for figuring that out at, uh, age 28.

• 9:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:11Shawn Ryan?

  That's, that is a hard lesson to learn.

• 9:15Speaker 05

  It is, it is. And it doesn't come easy. It's, it's, you've really got to search for it. You really have to ask questions and you really have to have good people around you to find it. Um,

• 9:25Speaker 05

  otherwise you get all this fame or success, not that I have fame or success, but you know, I would say I'm successful in my journey for my goals. And, and I still have goals that go deeper than just a gold belt. Um, they're, they're more on a, a human level of, you know, being a good person and having good people in my life. And, and achieving, you know, uh, success with just a wealth of family around me, um, that I didn't get to have growing up. So. Super excited for that and I think the future holds a lot of cool things for me, so.

• 9:54Shawn Ryan?

  I'm sure it does.

• 9:55Speaker 05

  Hopefully I find out soon.

• 9:56Shawn Ryan?

  Well, hey, I don't know what the future holds for it, but I do know in the near future. So I got you a couple of gifts here.

• 10:02Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:03Shawn Ryan?

  One.

• 10:04Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:05Shawn Ryan?

  Probably the only reason you came out here.

• 10:06Speaker 05

  I tried to get this for a year. So I gotta know, are these like some special gummy bears or are these just Sean Rhine's gummy bears?

• 10:15Shawn Ryan?

  They're just, they're just gummy bears, man. There's nothing. There's, they're legal in all 50 states. So if that tells you anything.

• 10:22Speaker 05

  Good.

• 10:22Shawn Ryan?

  It's just candy. At least right now they'll probably become illegal with the red dye shit, but.

• 10:26Speaker 05

  It's alright. I'll die for these just once.

• 10:29Shawn Ryan?

  Right on. And I got you another gift, you know, finding out that you're a gun guy down there. I got a buddy over at Sig Sauer. His name's Jason. I told him you were coming on.

• 10:40Speaker 05

  Alright.

• 10:40Shawn Ryan?

  Presents you with a little, a little something there.

• 10:43Speaker 05

  Alright, let's see.

• 10:46Speaker 05

  Let's go. Thank you.

• 10:51Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 10:52Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 10:53Speaker 05

  Oh, this is a big boy.

• 10:55Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. So down there, you know, you were talking about, and I'm sure we'll dive into it a little bit, but you had mentioned that, uh, you know, if things didn't work out in the, in the fighting world that you thought about joining the military.

• 11:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:07Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, so that is a Sig Sauer P226.

• 11:12Speaker 05

  I've never even heard of this.

• 11:14Shawn Ryan?

  Dude.

• 11:14Speaker 05

  But this thing is hefty.

• 11:15Shawn Ryan?

  That is, that is.

• 11:17Speaker 05

  Now there's something to shoot.

• 11:18Shawn Ryan?

  That is the primo. So.

• 11:20Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 11:21Shawn Ryan?

  When I joined the SEAL teams, the sidearm, the secondary that we carried was a Sig Sauer P226.

• 11:27Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 11:28Shawn Ryan?

  And so they revamped it. That's the Legion model. Go ahead, pull that trigger, Ben.

• 11:32Speaker 05

  This is a nine mil?

• 11:33Shawn Ryan?

  That's a nine millimeter.

• 11:35Speaker 05

  Oh, that's smooth.

• 11:36Shawn Ryan?

  You gotta rack it.

• 11:39Speaker 05

  Still feels smooth though. Yeah. I mean, that's like nothing. Wow. Thank you so much.

• 11:45Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you're welcome, man.

• 11:46Speaker 05

  Thank you so much. I didn't expect this. Damn.

• 11:49Shawn Ryan?

  Surprise.

• 11:51Speaker 05

  I love it. Thank you. Thank you.

• 11:54Speaker 05

  Man, fantastic. I love it. Thank you so much. You gotta, you're gonna have to help me figure out how I'm getting it back.

• 12:00Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, we got you covered.

• 12:01Speaker 05

  Alright, awesome.

• 12:02Shawn Ryan?

  We got you covered.

• 12:02Speaker 05

  Awesome. That's, that's amazing. Thank you so much.

• 12:05Shawn Ryan?

  You're welcome.

• 12:06Speaker 05

  That's a great piece, man. Another one to the collection.

• 12:09Shawn Ryan?

  There you go. Thirty-one.

• 12:10Speaker 05

  Special one. Special one.

• 12:13Shawn Ryan?

  And then, I have a Patreon account. Patreon account, subscription account. We've turned it into one hell of a community. I think we have almost hundred thousand people in there now. And, uh, so one of the things that I do is I offer the community, uh, the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question. So this is from Eric Algar.

• 12:35Shawn Ryan?

  Joe, you've shared how Dana White not only gave you a UFC contract, but also covered your rent after a tough moment. What gave you the courage to be so open about your situation back then? And how did your life shift the moment you left that meeting?

• 12:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, I would say, um, I think it, it starts way before me being open about, you know, my situation. Um, I used to be super shy. Uh, and, uh, super reserved and, um, you know, then one time, Sam Orpiza, who was probably one of the most monumental people aside from Will Harmon, who you'll learn, you know, took me in, uh, was a high school wrestling coach. But Sam Orpiza I had known since I was ten years old and he told me when somebody tells you to eat or offers you food, you take it. You eat. And, uh, it always stuck with me. It was just, it was something really small, but it was like, if you don't take the opportunities given to you, um, then you miss them.

• 13:33Speaker 05

  And just not being shy to ask for something, you know, the worst that you can be told, the worst thing you can be told is no and, and you don't get what you want. So, uh, you know, I didn't tell him that story, uh, or situation for the sake of pity. It was just, hey, look, I let him know I just fought and I'm about to be homeless on Friday. I have no idea where I'm going to live. Because the house that I was living in. Um, was sold. So I had, I'd fought on Tuesday. Uh, that's when Dana White's Contender Series is, and I would have flown home Wednesday. Thursday would have had to move out and Friday was, that was it. I had nowhere to go. Um, so he had fronted me some money that got me a condo. It worked out where my strength and conditioning coach,

• 14:15Speaker 05

  um, his landlord, he lived in the same condo complex. And she had had one that just literally got like vacated. She had just let, uh, let go of tenants and it wasn't even up on the market yet. And I told her I would pay her cash from what he had given me and that paid for my whole year upfront rent. Damn. Um, but how it changed, it was just, you know, uh, like Dana White's gotten a lot of flack, you know, uh, uh, essentially. People think that he's a heartless guy and I don't think that he is. And he's been super generous with me and, and super nice to me. And, uh, it's been nothing but good business. Um, so it was nice to know that someone of his caliber, you know, who's apparently, you know, a lot of people talk about him in a way where it's like they don't care about their fighters and you're just a number.

• 15:01Speaker 05

  And to a certain extent, you know, if, if you're not bringing the company money, I understand why it's like that. If it don't make money, it don't make sense. It's a business at the end of the day. Um, but it was very nice to see his heart and, uh, his genuine care for my wellbeing and, and made sure that he took care of me and gave me, I mean, essentially that allowed me to take the next fight the month later. Yeah. So, um, it was very special. And then on top of the B. Joe Pyfer moment and everything, uh, it was nice that I had that kind of impact on the president of the, the UFC. So from a guy that I've been watching since I was five years old. So, yeah, it was, it was a huge moment, but it just brought back humanity to my life at the highest level with like somebody of that status. So it was probably the most famous guy I've ever been in front of at that time.

• 15:46Speaker 05

  Man, that's cool. Yeah. So it was really cool. Life changing. It, it literally was life changing. So I don't know how my. Career would have been, you know, sleeping on somebody's couch and trying to train full time and yeah, it was a rough situation, but you know, he made it that much better and made it that much easier.

• 16:03Shawn Ryan?

  How long ago was that?

• 16:04Speaker 05

  Uh, two and a half years ago.

• 16:06Shawn Ryan?

  Two and a half years.

• 16:06Speaker 05

  I've been in UFC two and a half years. Uh, I had that fight in, I think, 2022. So, beginning of, middle of 2022. So it's been about two and a half years.

• 16:15Shawn Ryan?

  Right on.

• 16:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 16:17Shawn Ryan?

  What a guy. That's cool.

• 16:18Speaker 05

  It was pretty cool. And then a lot of people were talking shit on him recently about the, the, the Ben Askren thing with the lung transplant. Uh, he had a double lung transplant that he needed to get and, uh, people were like, oh, he didn't help. But you know, then he came out and, uh, the post, it's, it actually was after this weekend, this national card. Um, he said that he had given money to Ben Askren to help him with his transplant. So it's super cool. You know, those, those are things that go beyond fighting.

• 16:42Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:43Speaker 05

  And business and, uh, you know, it's nice to see that he gives back and, you know, actually cares about people.

• 16:48Shawn Ryan?

  Is there, is there like, uh, what's the community like? The UFC community?

• 16:54Speaker 05

  Uh, as a whole, it's brutal, man.

• 16:56Shawn Ryan?

  Behind the scenes, I mean, does everybody lift each other up or?

• 16:59Speaker 05

  Hmm, I will say, nah, not really, man. Yeah, not really. So it, it depends. Like the fans are ruthless, man. They either love you or they, they fucking hate you. Uh, but you know, as far as like the fighters between each other, they're really respectful for the most part. Like I've never had an issue.

• 17:16Speaker 05

  Um, but then, you know, there's the guys that just had bad blood beef, like guys that could be Nate Diaz, Jones, DC, things like that. They genuinely hate each other. Uh, Cody Garbrandt, TJ Dillashaw, those rivalries. And, um, so yeah, it's, it's a hit or miss, but I would say for the most part, fighters amongst each other are very respectful. Um, ultimately this is our job and we're competitors. So I would say it's pretty respectful, but as far as the fan base, man, it is a ruthless business.

• 17:43Shawn Ryan?

  I'll bet it is.

• 17:44Speaker 05

  Always be a fucking loser if they hate you and they will let you know for years. I mean, I have a fan that's been dedicated to telling me that I'm a loser for like the past year and a half and I save all this shit. I think it's hilarious, but yeah, so it's, uh, it's 50 50 for sure.

• 17:59Shawn Ryan?

  How hyped up is it?

• 18:02Speaker 05

  Uh, as far as what? What part? Theatrics. None. None? There is no scripted, there's no fake anything. Um, that's all our, all the other organizations aside from UFC. UFC is the most. Let me, let me rephrase that. Let me rephrase that. I don't mean like theatrics in the ring. I don't mean any of that. No, I'm talking about even press conferences. No shit? That's all real? All real, all real. Yeah, we don't, you don't get any type of, the only thing we're told is don't touch each other. That's it. Everything else is real. So whether the fighters between each other sometimes are cool and they'll say, hey, let's, let's hype this up. Let's talk some shit so that way we can get people interested, you know, that's a private conversation, but. Um, yeah, no, none of it's fake. Right on. Yeah.

• 18:44Speaker 05

  Right on. I thought for sure some of the drama going on behind the scenes was maybe encouraged. Yeah, John Jones and DC truly hated each other and they still, if you've ever, you know, followed it, they still hate each other, I think. So there's a little bit of respect there, like DC will give them this respect, but they still don't like each other as people. Interesting. Yeah, and they've already competed twice and. So yeah, no, none of it's fake. Who's your arch nemesis? Fucking Paul Craig. Really? Yeah, I don't like that dude. I don't know. I just, he didn't even do anything to me. I just don't like him. I don't like him. I just don't like the way. I don't like him, man, because you know, I, I, I had a fight last year and I fought, uh, this guy, Mark Andre Barial, who I did like. Um, after the fact, but, um.

• 19:30Speaker 05

  I called him out. He said, he accepted. He was a two oh fiver. And I wanted to fight because he had beat the, the current champion, uh, Ahmed Ankaliyev, um. You know, he just got lucky, I think for sure. Um, but you know, he's a two oh fiver. I don't like his theatrics of putting on his face paint and getting in people's face and doing the mean mug and everything like that, but then fights like a bitch, in my opinion, he lays on his back. He's a back princess, so I don't.

• 19:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't like the guy. And then I went into Grandpa against him in a jujitsu tournament and he put his name there. Then when they offered my name to him, he disappeared. So it's just, you know, I tried to beg the matchmaker to give me that fight. It wouldn't happen. And I'm like, you know, any fight that I've asked for, I really haven't gotten, which is kind of frustrating. So. It is what it is.

• 20:14Shawn Ryan?

  You ask for fights? Is that, is that?

• 20:16Speaker 05

  I'll give him, yeah, I'll give him suggestions. Look, the UFC basically is like, they offer you a fight, you take it. If you don't, they'll bench you. Um, so it is what it is. Um, you know, you're really not in the business of picking your fights, which is fine. Um, you gotta fight who they tell you to fight. So.

• 20:32Shawn Ryan?

  What happens if two people want to fight each other? Is it, does it go farther?

• 20:36Speaker 05

  Not all the time. Not all the time. Like, like I said, me and Paul Craig, he said he accepted after I called him out after I won my fight. And then, you know, it never happened and it was kind of just lost in the air. So I was pretty disappointed with that. When I first made my debut and I'd won my fight, I wanted to fight the guy I broke my elbow against. He was already in the UFC. He got a contract off of me breaking my arm. And, uh, I felt some type of way about that because I didn't think he deserved it. It wasn't. It wasn't like he made me tap. It wasn't like he was whooping my ass. It wasn't like he submitted me or, you know, knocked me out. So I was like, how does this guy get a contract? And then he went on, he was like one and three in his first four or something like that, or two and four in his first five or six. And, um,

• 21:19Speaker 05

  yeah, they wouldn't give it to me. I actually talked to Dana White personally and was begging him for the fight because I wanted to get him back. Um, just because, you know, I got some pretty bad scarring from it and I wanted to hurt that motherfucker. So.

• 21:30Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 21:31Speaker 05

  Unfortunately, I've had to put it in the rearview mirror. I think I'm so far ahead of him, ahead of him that I'm never going to get that fight back. Um, it is what it is. But yeah, I fucking hate Paul Craig. I think he's a bitch.

• 21:42Shawn Ryan?

  Right on, man. Well, let's move into your life story. You ready?

• 21:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:47Shawn Ryan?

  Where'd you grow up?

• 21:48Speaker 05

  So I was born in violin, New Jersey. Um, small town. Um, I lived in Pitts Grove from, uh, the time of four years old until 15. And, um, one of five kids. Uh, I got four sisters, two older, two younger and we're all blood related. And my parents were married for about 20 years before they got divorced. And um yeah, so grew up, grew up in Pitts Grove. It was more of like a farmland type deal and um I loved nature, things like that. I was a pretty quiet, timid kid. Um, my father started learning jujitsu and MMA with a guy named Steven Hague at um probably around when

• 22:30Speaker 05

  I was about four years old and then about four and a half years old, my dad started forcing, you know, and I don't want to say it in a bad way, but introducing me uh into jujitsu and MMA. And then that's when I started training and I wound up having my first jujitsu tournament at five years old.

• 22:47Shawn Ryan?

  You started at four years old?

• 22:49Speaker 05

  Four and a half, yeah. Four and a half. And then I started competing uh right before I was six at five years old. I, my first competition, I think, was August third or August fourth of two thousand and three. And I was born in nineteen ninety-six, so I would have been turning six that year.

• 23:04Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. I've started my kid at three.

• 23:07Speaker 05

  You started him at three?

• 23:08Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, man.

• 23:09Speaker 05

  Even better.

• 23:10Shawn Ryan?

  I wrestled. I wasn't any good, but I wrestled. And I remember in high school, I'd be like, they, they, they would come around, oh, this guy started at five. And I'd be like, oh, fuck. Here we go.

• 23:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, I will, I will say, I think wrestling is, is the greatest foundation even over jujitsu. I think wrestling, if you're going to go in combat sports, obviously, I think wrestling is, is the greatest.

• 23:31Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think that?

• 23:32Speaker 05

  I would also venture to say it's, it's better than jujitsu, uh, even if you aren't going to be in the UFC, because it's, it's still a team sport, but it's an individual score. Um, so the performance is about you, but you're obviously still working with your teammates and you still have discipline, you know, weight class, you're still trying to compete to be on the varsity team, things like that. And um, it just really teaches you to work as a unit, whereas jujitsu is a little bit more selfish. And I think for kids, it's good to work as a team versus working individually and you constantly having all the attention, you know, so um, cause then you think it's always about you. So I know what wrestling did for me and I started late and I think um, I think I would be even more damen- dangerous had I learned wrestling a little bit earlier than I learned jujitsu.

• 24:17Speaker 05

  So I think wrestling is great. It teaches kids discipline, commitment, um, diet, health.

• 24:23Shawn Ryan?

  How to lose.

• 24:25Speaker 05

  How to lose. Yeah, yeah. They don't let you freak out. If you freak out, you lose the team points. So, and you can get sat out. Yeah. So I would definitely say that that's the greatest foundation.

• 24:36Shawn Ryan?

  You know, going through your, all the information that I've looked at on you, I mean, it's, it's.

• 24:44Shawn Ryan?

  I read that your first memories, you think, are a one-year-old.

• 24:47Speaker 05

  No, my first memories are about five years old.

• 24:49Shawn Ryan?

  Five years old.

• 24:50Speaker 05

  From what I was told, my first memories that were bad is that, and I was told this by my mother who has pictures, that I started getting beat at a year old.

• 24:59Shawn Ryan?

  You started getting beat at a year old?

• 25:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, so the story behind that, and that's when the abuse starts, was from my father who, I guess, beat me because I shit my diaper and wiped it on the wall. Um, but that was because I was left unattended in the crib, or, I was gonna say crate, but I don't think that's the right word. So I think it was a crib and, um, my mom, you know, I'd come home and there was bruises all over me around the top of my head,

• 25:27Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 25:27Speaker 05

  Down my spine, um, and it was very frequent that it would happen. So she was initially gonna call, um, I'm pretty sure she called the cops on him for some reason. I don't know if it was that, but then she had wound up calling the cops on him, um, for some abuse at some point. But yeah, I started getting beat at a year old. So, yeah, and, um, we'd had child services in and out of our life all throughout my childhood, but yeah, so my earliest, my earliest remembrance of getting beat was, you know, I, I would say five years old, pretty clearly. Um, I don't really remember anything before five years old. I don't know if that's normal or not, but, um, that's, that's basically when I remember it, and it was because of jujitsu. So that's my earliest memories is getting beat over

• 26:13Speaker 05

  jujitsu, whether I couldn't learn a move fast enough, or comprehend, or something of that manner, so, yeah.

• 26:21Shawn Ryan?

  How were the, how were your siblings? Your sisters?

• 26:24Speaker 05

  So, I have a sister that was born in ninety-four, a sister that was born ninety-five, I'm ninety-six. My younger sister is ninety-eight, and then my other sister is in two thousand, so. Um, Sarah being the oldest, I don't, she was February sixteenth of ninety-eight, or, I'm sorry, ninety-four, so I don't know if she's thirty now. We don't talk.

• 26:43Shawn Ryan?

  You don't talk?

• 26:44Speaker 05

  Nah, we don't talk. Um, just because, you know, there's, there's. That's later on, but yeah, we don't talk, um, we don't see eye to eye. Um, she's still going through, I think, a divest- a domestic violent relationship. And I don't wanna be a part of that. And she has kids and, you know, they kinda cut me off because I whooped one of my sister's boyfriend's asses at one point. And, um, you know, when they stopped talking to me over that and then they were upset that I wasn't able to be in their children's lives as much as they'd like, or they said I didn't have an interest. And it's just kinda like, you know, do I wanna have people in my life that don't wanna move past the past? Or do I wanna have people in my life that are trying to, you know, hit new goals and actually achieve, um,

• 27:31Speaker 05

  you know, greatness? And I just, I don't wanna live in the past all the time, so. They're kinda still stuck on the past and I'm, I'm not with that.

• 27:39Shawn Ryan?

  Why did you whoop your sister's boyfriend's ass?

• 27:42Speaker 05

  Cause I found out he was a meth head. And, um, he told me I wasn't a man on top of it. He called me a pussy, so. Had to show him what was up. Didn't like him anyway. Guy was a pathological liar. Cheated on my sister. Um, now he's dragging her through a really ugly, uh, court case, which, you know, I'm not involved in or anything, but, you know, that's just my outsider's view on him.

• 28:06Speaker 05

  And, uh, you know, he's trying to take her kids away from her type deal and. I think she's a great mother. And, uh, so yeah. Uh, it doesn't take much to piss me off, especially if you're a scumbag like he is, so, um, yeah, I don't respect men that get women pregnant, especially my sister and then are out there doing drugs. I don't care what low point I'm at in my life. Um, I would never do drugs. I've never done drugs and, um, I sure, I sure as shit wouldn't do it if I was about to have the greatest responsibility in the world, which was fathering a child, so. Yeah, I had no respect for him for it, so.

• 28:41Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 28:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:41Shawn Ryan?

  How long ago was that?

• 28:43Speaker 05

  Hmm. This was two weeks before I broke my elbow in the contender, my first contender fight, so. Um, yeah, but unfortunately, my, my family has been so damaged.

• 28:55Speaker 05

  By the way that we were brought up and um. You know, there's really no loyalty between our family or there was none, you know, I still, I talk to my mother now and I talk to that sister. Um, that I didn't talk to um, whose boyfriend I beat up, me and her still talk now. Um, I talked to my youngest sister, I've seen my second oldest sister, but I haven't seen my oldest sister in probably. Six, seven years. Yeah, man. Six years, maybe something like that, so. Um. Does that bother you? Oh, of course, it bothers me, um, you know, but I think the, of course it's gonna bother me, you know, I don't think that they're bad people, it's just, it's really tough. To go around a family that you, you know, is.

• 29:37Speaker 05

  It's just all broken up and they're all, they're all fucked up, they've all had issues, um, and I think a part of it is my father never taking accountability and just kinda. Damaging their life and then going and living his own life, you know, so. Um, avoidant of all abuse of all accusations and um. So, yeah, yeah, it definitely bothers me, I wanna see them do well, even if we didn't talk, I wanna see him do well, and I think that's what bothers me the most is my family's always split. They're never, you'll never go to a holiday and everybody's getting along, it's, uh, well, you're talking to this sister, well, you're a traitor, or I tried and you're a traitor, they all. They all look, they all look at each other's enemies because they don't understand the value of family. Um. Damn.

• 30:19Speaker 05

  And I think that's the part that's the most damaging about it all is that he really disrupted, you know, he really. I think damaged their insight as to family having their back, you know, it was boys versus girls, it was me and him versus my mom and my sisters. And that was just a dynamic that we grew up in and you're ratting each other out, or if you ever heard something that was super. You know, bothered somebody and you had been told like, hey, yeah, you know, I feel this way or I'm depressed about this, the second you had an argument, you throw it in their face, so. Uh, you never had trust between your siblings and you never had trust in your parents, so.

• 30:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, man. We were all victims of uh this guy's abuse and um it was like we were little slaves to him.

• 31:00Shawn Ryan?

  Damn. Let's dive in a little bit more deep. What what kind of stuff? Let's talk about some positive stuff. What? What were, if there is any? What were you into as a kid?

• 31:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, there's some positive things. I would say one of my favorite singers, first memory I ever had that I actually remember from five years old is Celine Dion.

• 31:21Speaker 05

  I'm freezing, by the way.

• 31:23Shawn Ryan?

  Are you?

• 31:23Speaker 05

  I'm chattering.

• 31:24Shawn Ryan?

  Here, there we go.

• 31:25Speaker 05

  Um.

• 31:26Shawn Ryan?

  Been here a little bit.

• 31:27Speaker 05

  Shee. Um, but yeah, first first uh song I ever remember hearing was I'm Alive by Celine Dion. It was one of my favorites and um. Uh.

• 31:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, there were some good things. You know, I'd gone fishing with my grandfather a couple of times, um who I only met a couple of times. And that was a really good memory for me. I used to love it. He would always play Celine Dion. So it was like a monumental point in my life and I thought a lot of her music got me through some really lonely times in life, especially being young. It was always uplifting, always liked it, you know, it sounds funny. But uh I loved it. Um so that was a good memory. Um and even, you know, I had some really good memories with my pops. Um with some of the jujitsu, especially when I won, you know, he seemed to be very proud early on. And um but that was very short-lived. It was probably for about two tournaments that I can remember. It was the first one and um.

• 32:24Speaker 05

  First one and then probably uh in two thousand and seven, one of the grapplers quests that I'd won, he was very happy. Um so my first and then that was probably the last time that I ever felt like he was happy or proud of me. Um, what other some good times? We went to the beach a few times. Me and him would go play video games at the arcade. I was always into video games. I was homeschooled. So I grew up homeschooled from, you know, the time I started to school until about eighth grade. Then that's when I was in school all the way up until I graduated. I had a short stint where I was in public school from about five years old, started getting bullied, got pulled out. And uh and then eighth grade, obviously till graduation, I was in public school, but um so.

• 33:04Shawn Ryan?

  You were getting bullied at five years old?

• 33:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, just because we had hand-me-down clothes. We were the poorest, probably one of the poorest families that were going there. Um. So they'd make fun of my clothes or make fun of my hair or. Yeah, I don't remember kids. I just remember getting into it with a kid in the locker room where they were gonna jump me and you know, a kid was like telling me some vulgar things like, oh, you can suck on these balls, all this shit like, and you're talking about kids that are in fifth grade, you know, and I wasn't used to that. I wasn't a fighter. I trained, but I didn't have a mean bone in my body. It wasn't, I was kind of a bitch, honestly, so um, it just wasn't how I was raised. Uh, my mom tried to stop me from doing jujitsu, didn't want me to have a mean demeanor and things like that. Uh, she didn't want my growth to get stunning because like

• 33:51Speaker 05

  when we trained, we trained hard. It wasn't, it wasn't like a little like kid like, hey, yeah, you know, good job type thing. It was, what are you fucking retarded? You can't get it, getting slapped, getting hit, um, getting screamed at the entire time, you know, crying and still trying to learn. And you can't put a kid in a stressful situation like that. And uh, yeah, you always felt like I always, I grew up thinking that there was something wrong with me. So just because I always thought I had like a learning disability or maybe I was fucking retarded, like, oh, I didn't, I had no idea what it was, so.

• 34:22Shawn Ryan?

  Who would slap you around?

• 34:23Speaker 05

  My father, my father. So, you know, if you couldn't learn something and he was trying to teach you, he would get very frustrated and scream at you, including my sisters, you know, it wasn't just me. My sisters all learned jujitsu too. Uh, my older sister used to be a pretty, she was a young granderazi. Probably would have whipped their ass if she stuck with it, but um, you know, then you start hitting puberty, you become a woman and it's just not what they're into. So it's uh, becomes uncomfortable for them and they didn't want to do it and he basically disowned him over it. Uh, and hated their guts, so. But yeah, some back to the, the good memories, you know, we've gone to the beach a couple of times and we always cherish those moments, you know, we're kids, so it wasn't really hard to, to win us over with, with good times.

• 35:05Speaker 05

  Um, my mom did her absolute best and um, you know, even though I feel like she was an absent mother as far as love with me because of my father and just the dynamic of our family. I will always respect her work ethic, withholding two and three jobs uh, with a husband that refused to work.

• 35:21Shawn Ryan?

  He didn't work.

• 35:22Speaker 05

  So he was a oil truck driver and he got hit in an accident. He got T-boned and um. Apparently blew his back out or, you know, had a herniation. I'm not sure what the details were of that, but basically he had a back injury and then went and got surgery in 2004 and collected SSD ever since and never worked a job. He would try some odd and end jobs, like he did really cool woodwork, like scroll saw work, like portraits, but they never really made any money. And then he had an outdoor repair business with Outboard Motors, so I would help him with that as basically his tool boy, and which I loved, you know, I used to love, I love cars. I always loved cars. I always loved loud shit. And I always

• 36:07Speaker 05

  enjoyed being by the beach. I always loved boots. I always loved fishing. So that was a cool outlet, even though it was miserable because you're getting screamed at the whole time, you know, getting the wrong tool, shit like that. But, you know, it was good for me. It was really good for me. So, you know, he tried to do an income as far as that, but never used it to help the family, never used it to buy the family shit. It was just always for himself. And it was never enough money to ever even do anything for the family anyway, but.

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• 37:48Shawn Ryan?

  Alright, so we were talking about, we were talking about good things.

• 37:52Speaker 05

  Good things, yeah. Another good memory was obviously, you know, winning a couple of tournaments like I had said, but those were good memories. Um, video games were good memories to a certain extent, but everything that was good wound up becoming super abusive, so.

• 38:06Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 38:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, everything started out good and my dad had great qualities, he really did. But, he let whatever demons that he has take over and um, things really, really, really went, I mean, he always had a temper, always, but things really went bad after the surgery. I think he uh, I think he started to lose his mind a little bit because of narcotics. And uh, I never really realized that until a couple of years ago though, but you know, he was always on gabapentin, Xanax, perks, oxys, um, uh, what's the other one? I don't remember, but you know, and he would always drink a ying- yingling or two yinglings with it, you know, and um, that shit makes you very thin tempered.

• 38:50Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean started out good? I mean, we just talked about at age one.

• 38:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think, when I say started out good is like, first tournament, super proud, super happy. I've won, I submitted everybody, five years old. Great memory, you know, one of my greatest memories in competition. It's what started everything.

• 39:10Shawn Ryan?

  You're around to that.

• 39:11Speaker 05

  Love, I remember that, yeah, very well. Um, I'm pretty sure I leg locked a kid and I arm barred a kid and, I think I leg locked another kid, or maybe I, I think I uh, arm bar, guillotine and leg lock. So, um, it was a very good memory for me. I got to see Ken Shamrock down there, which was one of my favorite fighters as I was young. It was one of the first people I remember watching, him and his brother Frank Shamrock, who was Pancration. And, uh, you know, he was proud. Um, and same thing with like video games. It used to be fun. And then it got really bad. I got one of the worst beatings of my life over a video game in the end.

• 39:49Shawn Ryan?

  Um, why? For a fucking video game?

• 39:52Speaker 05

  Cause I was fucking good at video games and I was co-op playing with him and I was stealing his kills. Sounds so fucking stupid. Sounds so stupid, brother, but sorry I'm fucking nice at video games.

• 40:05Shawn Ryan?

  You remember that?

• 40:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, of course. Well, that that last beating was I was fifteen, sixteen. I was fifteen going on sixteen and it was right before it was one of the last beings I got before I ran away. So started out good, ended bad. Competition started out good and then if my dad's the kind of guy where if he's not in absolute control and he's not in the spotlight and I don't give all glory to him, you're you're dead to him. So that's how it changed, you know, the first competition, he was just happy. And I think he had good intentions and I will always be grateful for his introduction into the sport. It's how I know what it is. It's how I've gone to, you know, do what I've done.

• 40:46Speaker 05

  Because of his introduction, but I will, I will say this, he gave me tools. He never thought I would go and build a house with. So, um, he gave me the tools and that's it. And then other people gave me the blueprint and I've gone and built the house. So that's the best way to look at this story. And, um, yeah, you know, like I said, competition used to be good and turned bad. Um,

• 41:08Shawn Ryan?

  would, yeah. Would you say your first memory is getting your ass kicked by your dad? I mean, could you be descriptive? What, what was that about?

• 41:16Speaker 05

  I remember we were wrestling in the, we were wrestling in the living room. It's also the memory of when I first remember hearing Celine Dion. And he had a stereo and we were wrestling and, uh, I guess I choked him a little too hard at five years old.

• 41:28Shawn Ryan?

  Five years old?

• 41:29Speaker 05

  At five years old. Um, he basically let me take his back and I put a choke on him and I remember squeezing it too hard. Uh, I guess for his liking at five years old and he wound up flipping me over and slamming me right on my head. Um, basically like a DDT, the way I landed straight up on my head and then he kicked me. And that was the first beating into, uh, into jujitsu that I remember. So, uh, I'd been slapped a ton of times, numerous times, brother, more than I could count. Um, over learning, you know, over learning something slow.

• 42:03Speaker 05

  I used to get beat if I took too long with our homeschool curriculum just to do a phonics page, which was English for homeschool curriculum. I mean, he would beat you with, he would beat your ass bad, you know, split your skin bad. So, uh, sister's got the same type of abuse, but I've been hit with a jump rope by him, uh, which was probably the worst. I've been hit with the metal end of a fly swatter. Uh, been hit with spoons. Yeah, I've been hit with a lot. So, yeah. And it was almost like he took pleasure. That's the one thing that bothers me about that dude is he took pleasure in it. Um, the louder you screamed, it was almost like it fed the rage that he had. Like almost if you've like, which kind of like what I have with fighting. If I hit somebody and I'll knock him out, I'm going to keep hitting them.

• 42:47Speaker 05

  It's like that. It's like that. It's like fuel to the fire. I don't, I don't know. It's a very weird, very weird thing. I think he thought like he was the man by doing it and, um, yeah, it was a little bit disturbing because it's almost like he wanted an excuse to hit us or punish us. Um, we used to get put in the corner and I'm talking about all of us, not just me. I got it double time because I was the boy. But, and I mean, our punishments would be standing in the corner too, but we'd be standing in the fucking corner for three plus hours. So, yeah.

• 43:16Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 43:17Speaker 05

  So that was my first memory of getting beat, um, that I remember.

• 43:21Shawn Ryan?

  Let's walk through like a, a daily routine in your life as a kid.

• 43:26Speaker 05

  Uh, wake up, make myself eggs. Uh, he would wake me up at like seven AM, which you know, isn't crazy. Sometimes six AM. And I would go outside and we'd have like a, a cinder block and he'd make me push it, sprint to it, throw it, sprint to it. Um, we had like, uh, tops to outboard motors. There were the caps on outboard motors and we'd have like three or four of them because he had a couple of boats there, uh, that I was working on and we'd, we'd set them up like hurdles. So I'd run, jump over, jump over, jump over. Um, then we would do sprints. Um, we just did a lot of like natural body weight workouts. Um, and then we would play video games or I would have to do some type of homeschool. But at that time, my mom wasn't working three jobs. So she was the one teaching us

• 44:11Speaker 05

  in the early half, um, before he became disabled and, um, Yeah, so we we would do that, but then we would play video games. We had a PlayStation one. I've always been a PlayStation kid and. You know, I loved video games, always loved video games. It was like a little escape from reality for me. And just like constant seriousness, so um. And yeah, that was it. It was probably video games and training. That was most of my, that was most of my life. And sometimes we go to the shore. Um, with like twenty bucks and just like, that's all we had and we would fucking. Play arcade games, so it used to, those were the good memories, you know, and um. They didn't last very long.

• 44:50Shawn Ryan?

  When would he start beating? Did you notice any routine? Was it drinking? Was it drugs? Was it the same time every day? Was it?

• 44:57Speaker 05

  No, it wasn't the same time. It it it was, it was very frequent. I probably got beat a minimum of five times a week. Um, but you know, it usually was over jujitsu. Um, so I started to resent. Jujitsu and hate it, uh, and I just wanted to play with toys and I wasn't really allowed. Um, and if I did play with toys, he would come in my room and like kick all, I've been spending like hours. Building Lincoln Logs and he would just come in and took pleasure in making me cry and would like fucking smash all, like kick it all over my room. Just literally, I'd be sitting there peaceful playing and he would come up the stairs and walk in and just kick all my shit over. And then I would cry and he uh, call me a pussy and walk out. And um, stop crying like a pussy or fucking toys and then just leave.

• 45:39Speaker 05

  I was like five years old, you know, it hurts your feelings, you don't understand it, you don't know how to process it. And it's not that bad, right? But I mean, it's still like. Why?

• 45:48Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 45:49Speaker 05

  So he would do a lot of things that were just didn't make sense, um. Countless beatings over, over the jujitsu. Uh, you know, including my sister screaming at them, smacking them, pulling them by the hair. Um, throwing them like if you, if you got so frustrated, he would grab you by your hair and fucking throw you face down and then tell you to go to your room and leave you in your room for. Days, hours, and I mean hours, like. Eight to ten hours was a minimum as punishment by him. So I used to be so afraid to leave my room after getting punished, I would piss out the window. Because if I even tried to go to the bathroom to go get a sip, yeah, I got beat the fuck out of for it. So I would piss out my window.

• 46:32Speaker 05

  So. Fucking terrified and I pissed myself till I was about twelve years old. Wake up from nightmares and shit like that. So I think, I think all the beatings and the. Nah, I don't know if it's. I don't know how the mind works, but I just think from all the like trauma of like shock of how bad you would get beat. I think just like led to like really bad night nightmares, like devils chasing me and shit like that. So I had a lot of, a lot of bad nightmares seeing like, like, like, I don't know if they were demons on the wall or whatever the fuck it was that I was thinking I was seeing. Obviously it was not real, but yeah, I used to be in a really scared, dark place as a kid, so.

• 47:11Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, man.

• 47:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:14Shawn Ryan?

  What was the, I mean, what would the conversation be between you and your siblings?

• 47:19Speaker 05

  We were, we wouldn't really like have a conversation other than that. We would say we fucking hated them. And that we were afraid of them, you know, we, we, we all used to say the same story. So we wouldn't get in trouble. There's one instance, I think, so I lied about turning on an electric heater. We always, we were so poor. We got government assistance almost all my life. And, um, you know, after my dad had became disabled, like it was even harder, you know? And, um, and then our mom was never there to protect us from them because she was working. So that was when shit became scary because it's like, what are we gonna do? Like, how are we gonna fucking avoid this guy? We couldn't even take a fucking spelling bee. So you would have 20 words.

• 48:00Speaker 05

  This is part of homeschool curriculum and you would write the 20 words on a, you know, a line piece of paper. And then you had in your homeschool book, you would, you know, spell the word, you would write the word. He'll read you the word and then you have to write the word. It was part of spelling. I mean, asking this guy just to take a fucking spelling bee was one of the scariest fucking build up the moment of courage parts of your life. Because the guy was so fucking aggressive. What the fuck you bothering me for? Get the fuck out of here. You know, you see I'm fucking doing something, but get the fuck out of my face. So like, we were afraid to learn. But our mom's at work, so how the fuck are we supposed to learn? And, uh, you know, he would just sit there on his computer and fucking watch fight videos all day and

• 48:43Speaker 05

  talk to his friends and play video games or fucking, yeah, so it was, it was a little bit scary. Um.

• 48:51Shawn Ryan?

  Did you guys stand up for each other at all?

• 48:54Speaker 05

  So unfortunately, uh, no, but, um.

• 49:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, so no, uh, it was really like the girls really tag teamed me a lot. So I used to hate their guts because anytime there was a beating that was about to get served, they would all rat me out. Uh, or all blame me just because it was easy and they didn't know any better, you know, it was just kinda what they were taught. It's what we were taught.

• 49:18Speaker 05

  And, um, you know, I was the boy, so I could handle it, but, uh, yeah, I mean, my sisters used to be little huh. Little mean people at, at, at one time, you know, I'll get my ass beat and they'd walk by and smile at me and think it was funny. And I'm sitting there crying, you know, screaming or whatever. And, uh, he used to do the most humiliating shit. Where you'd have to pull your pants down. They're all sitting in the living room and you make them all sit in the living room and then fucking beat your ass bare naked in front of all of them. Which was very humiliating, you know, you got four fucking sisters. I'm pulling my ass out in front of them. Just so you can beat me and he would beat you till you cried, until you screamed. And that's how you would get split skin and shit like that. I'd hit you bare ass. Over the dumbest shit, man. Over the dumbest shit. I couldn't even tell you like necessarily.

• 50:02Speaker 05

  Too many specific ones of like why he would do it, but you know, it's not like we cursed. We were a Christian family. We went to church every Sunday, so we didn't curse. We didn't use foul language. Um.

• 50:14Speaker 05

  But yeah, so it was, it was a little bit, uh. You definitely hold some resentment and anger for a guy after that, but as a child, you have unconditional love for your parents, you know, that was. He, I thought he was some great fighter, you know, he came from Kensington, Philadelphia. He had an abusive life. He had fucked up parents. I can't speak on his life other than that. I don't know what's true, what's not true.

• 50:36Speaker 05

  But, um. But yeah, it was, uh, it was a very disappointing thing to have. As I got older, the beatings get worse and the betrayal get worse and, uh. He grew up like that. He grew up like that. He definitely had a harder life than me. I don't know what's true and what's not though, because of all the lies. I don't. I, he's, I think he's the type of guy who tells himself, well, he's definitely the type of guy that tells him something until he believes it. And then claims it is truth. And that's just a little bit, uh, I don't know if that's a little bit narcissist or psychopath or whatever it is. I'm not a psychologist, but, um. Yeah, man, he's he's told some wild stories that literally are not true that that I'll give you an example with. But the one, the one example I wanted to give you is that we had no heat.

• 51:21Speaker 05

  So we lived in a farmhouse that you had to use oil for heat. And we couldn't afford it. It was a couple hundred bucks and it was like four hundred fifty bucks every time you would fill it. It would last like a month and a half, two months. And we couldn't afford it and it was winter and I went down the and the morning, I think I'm like six years old.

• 51:41Speaker 05

  And I turned on the heater and I was sitting by the heater and the electric heater takes a long time to heat up and I was sitting by the heater. Forgot to turn it off. So I had it on low, you know, but regardless, you know, he he tried to pull, oh, you could have burnt the house down, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he lied this all up and he was like, I'm gonna beat every one of you until one of you tells me the truth. And I did a fucked up thing. I blamed my sister. I was scared. I knew he would beat me the worst. I knew he wouldn't beat them as bad as he beat me. So I blamed my sister and um. She got beat and I felt like a piece of shit and so after I felt guilty. Um, I told him that I did it and he beat me anyway. So it was kind of like, what's the point in telling the truth if I'm gonna get fucked up anyway?

• 52:26Speaker 05

  But I understand, you know, at the same time, I understand you can't lie. Um, or I shouldn't have lied and I let my sister get beat for something that I did. And that was one thing he always held on to, to try to say that I was a piece of shit kid at six years old. And never let me live it down. And my sister hated me for it and um, so that caused like a little bit of tension between me and my second older sister and. It is what it is, but you know, it was cold. And it sucked, but I mean, he beat the shit out of her pretty bad. And it was, yeah, still feel some type of way about it. Felt terrible. So that was one situation um, with the girls, but there's many.

• 53:06Speaker 05

  Um, he's grabbed my older sister by her neck, literally off her feet and slammed her head into, we had horsehair drywall, I guess. Um, cause it was a farmhouse and he's literally put her whole head through the fucking, the wall. Um, he strangled them, ripped their hair, stomped them, same thing as me. Strangled my mother, hit my mother in front of us numerous times. I'm surprised he never went to jail. He did get locked up once.

• 53:32Speaker 05

  But I don't remember. I was too young to remember what the charge was for, whether it was domestic violence or whatnot. So. Why would he be your mom? Arguments. Couldn't win an argument or the argument went on too long. Um, one instance was, um. My mom comes in, wasn't even confrontational and she has a cereal, um, and she sits on the couch and she goes, since when do you watch hockey? He gave her the death stare, made no sense, gets up, walks over and literally grabs her by her throat and she's holding her bowl of cereal. Out so she doesn't spill it on the couch. She's, she doesn't like making a mess. So he grabs her by her neck and she's just waiting there and you see her turning purple. She's turning purple, turning purple and he's like fucking holding her still.

• 54:15Speaker 05

  And then all of us kids start screaming and freaking out until she finally has to drop her bowl of cereal and start fighting him. Starts to fight him and he fucking drops her with a body shot. Uh, we thought he killed her. I mean, floored her and all of us kids started like trying to pull him off and she's laying there like, uh, like, you know, like winded, winded and, um. Yeah, we all hated him for it. So that was one instance. Um, he picked up the hammer.

• 54:40Speaker 05

  He had punched her a bunch of times in front of us, slapped her a bunch of times in front of us. Um. Yeah, he was just a violent dude, man. And I don't think. He, he, there was a huge mood, mood change. Like, you know, I feel like he was a little bit resentful. Not remorseful before two thousand and four, but after that, I mean, once he was on narcotics every day. I mean, he was dependent on these things. Like he couldn't go without. But the crazy thing is when he got the surgery, they finished his surgery. He had, he had a fusion. So they put like a titanium cage in his back. And.

• 55:17Speaker 05

  It, it's just the wildest thing because they finished his surgery and doubled the time that it takes to do that surgery. I think it was like four hours and they finished in two. Because he was an in shape guy. So.

• 55:29Speaker 05

  I learned this from my mom because I was still a little bit too young to comprehend all of it, but you know. He has a successful surgery and then he starts claiming that he has all this pain and all this shit. And he goes in and he's trying to sue the guy and saying that the guy ruined his life and all this crap. But when they did MRIs and they did x-rays and they were doing it, there was no inflammation, there was no fluid. And they, they were telling him like, dude, we don't understand, we understand what you're saying, but we don't see any source for your pain that you're describing. Like it doesn't exist. So we don't know what you're trying to do. And he didn't become successful with the lawsuit or anything, but he did get SSD off of that. And I think that's just what he wanted. I don't think he wanted to work. Um, and he claimed to be disabled, right? And all this pain, but anytime he wanted to hop up and fuck you up.

• 56:12Speaker 05

  Because you pissed him off. It was like he couldn't, he wasn't hurt at all, but he could still do jujitsu. He could still box. And, um. Yeah, it didn't make any sense, man. So i- i- i- it just. Uh, yeah. I mean, I've, I've had surgery and I've tried to take, uh, I think they gave me oxy or a perk and I've tried one. Uh, I think it was oxy or perk. Don't remember. And I fucking vomited. I threw up, couldn't take it. And, uh, but I will say I felt very agitated after taking it. So I can't imagine if that's what you're on all the time. It suppresses emotions or agitates you and that's what you're on and you're dependent on for, I think, I think he was an addict. There's only, it's the only way to say it. You're an addict and you would drink with it.

• 56:55Speaker 05

  And he used to fucking brag about how he could take Vicodins, like four Vicodin and drink two beers and still drive home and. You're with us in the car. So.

• 57:03Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 57:04Speaker 05

  Um.

• 57:05Shawn Ryan?

  What would snap him out of it?

• 57:08Speaker 05

  Out of what?

• 57:09Shawn Ryan?

  Out of his rage.

• 57:10Speaker 05

  Nothing. You couldn't stop that dude. When he wanted to be that way, that's how he was. Nothing would snap. I think, I think fear of going to jail would be the only thing that would snap him out of it. My mom would threaten to call the cops and put him in jail. And then that's when he would like. Get even more violent verbally, but you could tell he was afraid to go to jail. He's a real big, tough guy against people that couldn't fight back. That's always been him. He, he somehow always seemed to pick the right people to fuck with that he knew couldn't whip his ass. But he, his biggest claim to fame is that he was a hundred and fifteen and four.

• 57:42Speaker 05

  And the crazy thing about that is, you know, I'm Joseph Oliver Pfeiffer the fifth. He's Joseph Oliver Pfeiffer the fourth. You look my name up, I'm sanctioned, I fought for commissions, I've done medicals, you can find my name anywhere. Obviously, I'm in the UFC, I'm legit.

• 58:00Speaker 05

  This dude's been telling people for 20 plus fucking years, probably 35 plus years now. He's 54, 53. That he's 115 and four. How do we have Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, fucking Jersey Joe Walcott, Floyd Mayweather, you know, Rocky Marciano, we have all these guys amateur records.

• 58:21Speaker 05

  My dad's telling everybody he's 115 and four. Where? Look his name up, try to find it. He's a fucking liar, but he's said it so many times. And he's a convincing guy, he's easily a master manipulator, they can say it to you, straight to your face, without blinking, without switching up, like, yeah, I'm 115 and four. Where, bro? Even in his, he's even made a documentary recently to try and say that I stole his story. He's the real homeless kid and people have been trying to put his name down in the MMA world, talking about me.

• 58:53Speaker 05

  But, you know, there's no proof behind anything he says. He made a documentary? Yeah, so he's made a whole documentary, he was even trying to make another one. He made a documentary basically saying that, uh, his son stole his story, being me. And I did it to get clout and attention and sympathy from people. Where is this documentary? YouTube, and he's got 50,000 views off my name. So, um, but if you look at the documentary and you watch the documentary, there's nothing that addresses the allegations of me saying that he abused my mother. There's nothing that addresses the abuse of his daughters. And one thing that stands true, what he doesn't realize is there's six fucking people that say the same thing. And he completely acts like they don't exist.

• 59:38Speaker 05

  The same way that, you know, it's been 12 or 14 years since, I don't remember the exact years, but, you know, it's been 12 to 14 years that he left my mother and moved in with another fucking reject that now divorced him.

• 59:53Speaker 05

  But I think she's a piece of shit too, because she stood there and watched me get beat worse than I ever got beat in my life and didn't do a fucking thing about it. So, I don't like that fucking lady, but, uh, I still have like anger for that woman.

• 1:00:05Speaker 05

  But yeah, um.

• 1:00:07Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think, so he left your mom, your mom didn't leave him?

• 1:00:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, so the whole story is, you know, obviously all the things between me and him. When I was fifteen, he was already cheating on my mother with a girl that liked me in high school's mom. And my mom and my four sisters left me and my father. Um, because she couldn't take it anymore and the abuse of the daughters and she just needed to get away from him. And I hated my mom.

• 1:00:30Shawn Ryan?

  Hold on, why didn't, why did you stay with him?

• 1:00:33Speaker 05

  Because all I had was jujitsu.

• 1:00:35Shawn Ryan?

  That's why you stayed?

• 1:00:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I was brainwashed by him to believe that my mother was out to get us and ruin my life and his life and I loved him unconditionally despite all the abuse.

• 1:00:46Shawn Ryan?

  Um. Whoa, hold on.

• 1:00:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:00:49Shawn Ryan?

  How does he mindfuck you into thinking that your mother is the one after you when he's the one that's kicking your ass every day?

• 1:00:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I got beat by my mom too, nowhere near the same extent by him, but uh, the reason being is because like I said, my mom was kinda absent with me because

• 1:01:05Speaker 05

  I was like a little clone from my dad. Everything he told me to say, I would say it. And I think a part of the reason that became true is because um, we're homeschooled. So, not to say that we developed slower, but we definitely didn't realize what was normal and what was, we had no idea we were in an abusive home. We just thought that that's the way it was because we were homeschooled until fucking eighth grade.

• 1:01:28Shawn Ryan?

  You didn't have any friends?

• 1:01:29Speaker 05

  Nope, none. I didn't have my first friend over till I was fourteen.

• 1:01:33Shawn Ryan?

  Are you serious?

• 1:01:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, no friends, no phone. I didn't have a phone till I had a job. And I would fucking bail hay and do odds and end jobs here, you know, mow lawns and do things like that to be able to pay for my phone bill. So I had no friends. How the fuck are we supposed to know when we're sheltered from everything?

• 1:01:51Speaker 05

  And we always were told, and I think my mom, my mom always had the best intentions. Uh, but my dad, you know, it was like we were little slaves for him. He would bang on the fucking upstairs if he wanted one of the kids to come and fucking make him something to eat. I've never seen that dude fucking cook a meal for himself. Ever. Um.

• 1:02:09Speaker 05

  Uh, he didn't treat us like kids that he loved. He treated us like servants that he had. So, um, yeah, so, yeah, you know, uh, I was in jujitsu and that was my identity. That was the only thing that I could excel in regardless of what he felt. Um, but after that first competition, if I had ever beat anyone, it was, oh, you beat tomato cans. You beat crumbs, you're sandbagging, all this bullshit. And I was, mind you, I was thirteen, you know, twelve. I was always going against older kids. And, uh, if I lost, it was, I was a disgrace to his fucking name and I was pathetic and he can't believe it wasted his fucking time and his money and I was a piece of shit and I would get beat over that. You know, if I lost, I would get my ass fucking whooped because I embarrassed him and his name.

• 1:02:53Speaker 05

  And that was the craziest thing is embarrass his name. What the fuck is your name? What have you done?

• 1:03:00Speaker 05

  I couldn't tell you. The guy right now lives in a one-bedroom apartment. He's been divorced twice. The chick that he left my mother for divorced him. Don't know why, but I'm sure it's something abusive. There's plenty of cases that I could say that, you know, prove that he fucking views people as his slave, um, and his servant more than he does a companion or someone that he loves. Um, but you know, he's been divorced twice. He lives in a one-bedroom apartment. He has no money. Um, and he has one recent friend that all of a sudden came out of the woodwork as his best friend to be in the documentary against me, who's never met my mother or my sisters. And now he goes back to a black Baptist church when he was one of the most racist people I've ever met.

• 1:03:44Speaker 05

  So, maybe not now, but, I mean,

• 1:03:50Speaker 05

  that's kind of the dynamic of this guy's snake skin. And, um,

• 1:03:57Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, nobody knew what was going on. Like, what about your jujitsu coach?

• 1:04:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, so, so my jujitsu coach was my father when I was young. He's the one that taught me everything when I was young.

• 1:04:07Shawn Ryan?

  So you wouldn't even interact with other kids unless you're in a tournament?

• 1:04:11Speaker 05

  Yep, I wouldn't even interact with them, I would just compete against them. The only people I interacted with, so Steve Hag owned Fight Factory and I'm not sure if you're familiar with Eddie Alvarez. He was a former UFC champion, he fought Conor McGregor, he was a 155 champion, fought Bellator, fought Michael Chandler, um, really big name in MMA. And he knew me since I was five years old. There was numerous times that Steve Hag, Eddie Alvarez, Sam Morpiza, you know, had mentioned like, yo, you're going too hard on this kid. He would make me fist fight fucking sixteen years old, sixteen year olds at thirteen. Just to fucking do it and I'd be getting my head caved in, but I was no bitch.

• 1:04:46Shawn Ryan?

  Where?

• 1:04:47Speaker 05

  I'd still fight him.

• 1:04:47Shawn Ryan?

  Where would?

• 1:04:48Speaker 05

  At the gym. And then they would stop it. I remember Steve Hag stopped it and he was like, dude, what are you doing? Like you're making this kid fight a sixteen year old who's like way bigger than way, like, but kid's been in fucking fifty street fights. And what are you doing? Trying to like, you're getting his fucking head caved in and he's crying and I'm bleeding and like you're just, you're, the whole time he's telling me I'm a fucking loser, I'm not fucking listening, see this kid's fucking retarded. So they wind up pulling him aside and we're like, yo, you can't treat this kid like this. And just numerous times they'd heard how he talked to me and they would try to tell him and he would tell him to fuck off, stay out of his business, don't tell me how to parent, you don't have fucking kids, who are you to talk to me? And um, so eventually all their friendships ended because of it.

• 1:05:28Speaker 05

  And uh, yeah, so, uh, many people saw it, um, they didn't know the extent of it. Because nobody was ever over at our house, for the most part.

• 1:05:39Shawn Ryan?

  So you legitimately had

• 1:05:42Shawn Ryan?

  no idea that that wasn't normal?

• 1:05:44Speaker 05

  No idea, not until I went to public school. And then I went to public school and I was starting to get smart. I was hearing about the things that kids would do with their parents and going on vacations and shit like that. And I'm like, what the fuck? And then they're like, oh yeah, we're all going, like, some kids would be like, oh, if you want to go hang out here, if you want to go do this or do that. And I'm like, I can't. My dad wouldn't even fucking drop me off. My dad wouldn't drive me anywhere. So.

• 1:06:07Shawn Ryan?

  How quick did you pick up on that stuff?

• 1:06:10Speaker 05

  I don't think very fast. I I mean, I would say, I'm not very, not slow either, but I would say by the end of my eighth grade year, my first year in public school, my first full year in public school, I was like, this shit is not fucking normal. And then until like my sophomore year, I really realized like how sheltered we were and how good, you know, some parents were involved, they were. Like, he wouldn't take me to wrestling. And it was wild. It was like he didn't want, the whole reason he didn't want me to wrestle is because he didn't want somebody else to coach me. And how he always talked about me was like, um, property. Like, somebody's gonna take what I built. That's how he would talk. I built you. You owe me your fucking life. Like, those were the things he would tell me every fucking day. So.

• 1:06:52Speaker 05

  You feel fucking worthless. You don't feel like you have any value. You just feel like a fucking servant all the time. And it's like, dude, what about me? What about what I wanna do? I don't give a fuck about your feelings. Kill yourself. All this shit, like.

• 1:07:04Shawn Ryan?

  He would tell you to kill yourself?

• 1:07:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, the last, one of the last beatings I got. Before I ran away, I remember telling him, I started having like depression, um, to a severe level. That's what I think it was. I always felt like, I never had, I always felt like this empty hole in my stomach and I could never identify what it was or understand what it was. But after my father and I had left, my mom and we moved in with this new fucking woman that he was with, um. He, uh, he didn't do anything with me, like, nothing.

• 1:07:37Speaker 05

  And, uh, it was almost like he paraded me. It it was almost like he took pride in beating me up in front of her to show her what a tough guy he was, like how bad he was. And like, it was just fucking corny, man. It was corny, you know? He knew I would never swing on him because he had told me a story and and because I was a Christian. And I, he had told me a story about how he hit his father and knocked him out. Which I don't know is true. I have no idea if it's true, but that's what he told me when I was really young. And he was like, you gotta promise that you'll never, you'll never put your hands on your parents. And I remember promising and like, I always held that close. Like, I never wanted to have that kind of relationship where I'd hit my father or fought back against him.

• 1:08:19Speaker 05

  But he would fucking tee off on me. And I wasn't getting slapped, bro. I wasn't getting, you know, like a spanking. I was getting fucked up. And I would have to cover like a real man and fucking shield and hide. So I wasn't, I mean, he broke two of my teeth. He fractured my orbital bone. Um, yeah, so, um, the dude was, he actually broke my teeth in front of my friend. The first friend I had had over, his name is Billy Cruz and great kid, still friends with him today. He had a fucked up life too. And we were over playing video games, playing Call of Duty. Think I was whooping his ass as usual on there and uh, fucking, he was trying to like pick on me the whole time, pick on me the whole time, pick on me the whole time.

• 1:09:03Speaker 05

  And I finally got sick of it. And I was like, dude, why do you always gotta do this when my friends over? That's all I said. Man, this dude jumped up and fucking punched me like he was fighting for a world title. All the way into the kitchen and I was covered up and he fucking uppercut me and broke my teeth out of my mouth. Thirteen, fourteen years old. And my friend's standing there like, what the fuck? Like, he got sent home after that. Um.

• 1:09:27Speaker 05

  His wife, his second wife, watched me get beat to death, basically, and did nothing about it. Did nothing about it. And then he brainwashed her to the point that she was like, oh, you were a bad kid. You were always mouthing off, mouthing off. And I was like, questioning isn't mouthing off. Questioning why I'm getting beat isn't mouthing off. But his thing was like, when I say jump, you say how high? You would ask him why you're getting beat? All the time. How would you ask him? Uh, after I got fucked up, I would say, why do you hate me so much? And he'd tell me, he hopes I fucking die and I kill myself and my feelings don't matter. And um. Yeah, that was pretty much the premise of it. So, um, he would never give me an explanation.

• 1:10:09Speaker 05

  It was just a rage. You could tell. He had like the crazy eyes, man. He's one of them guys that has the crazy eyes. And, uh, I really started to fucking hate him. So then I really started contemplating killing the motherfucker in his sleep. Or killing myself. And, uh, that's when I had to get the fuck out of there. So, but. He left my mom to lead up to that part. He left my mom. Um. And was already cheating on her. He had cheated on her already. But then he was talking to this, uh, this lady. And he moved in with her. And she had already had two of her own kids. And basically there was like fucking four or five of us in a two bedroom apartment. And the whole situation was fucked up. And. Yeah. I mean.

• 1:10:56Speaker 05

  He did nothing with me. He told me if I joined the wrestling team, I can fucking walk to school. So that's where Will Harmon. Came into play, who was my wrestling coach who had would pick me up in the morning and drop me off. Sometimes I'd walk to school. Um, if I ever missed a bus, you know, when I was living with him, I had to walk to school a couple of miles in the winter. So it is what it is. Um. I'm appreciative of Will Harmon. I think he saved my life in a dark place. He was the only person who looked at me and. Actually gave a fuck about me and said, yeah, I think you can do it. Uh, I think you can be a good, great wrestler. I think you can be an MMA fighter. I think you can, I think Joe Pfeifer can do whatever the fuck he puts his mind to. And he was the first person in my life.

• 1:11:39Speaker 05

  That ever really made me feel like that. Like, man, somebody actually believes in me and cares about me because I'm just me. Not because of him. Um, Sam Orpiza. He tried to cut me off from jujitsu at fifteen years old. I started submitting that motherfucker when I was sixteen. And so I think it started fucking with his head like. This kid's starting to get strong. This kid's starting to, like, I could manhandle him a little bit on the ground. And so I think that's why the beatings got worse. I think he was literally trying to beat me into submission and like being a coward and just always being under his thumb and never leaving him. I think that was his biggest fear was once he realized I started excelling and getting in shape and really started loving it for myself from the time of thirteen years old on. It was my way of like rebelling against him.

• 1:12:24Shawn Ryan?

  Jeez, dude.

• 1:12:25Speaker 05

  I was like, fuck you. I'll start doing this for me. And I remember telling him that one time, I'm not competing for you anymore. I'm competing for me. And I remember seeing like grudges teeth like pissed off like if he could have killed me, would have. And the amount of times that this man is threatening to shoot me is fucking crazy, crazy.

• 1:12:40Shawn Ryan?

  He was threatening to shoot you?

• 1:12:41Speaker 05

  All the time, all the time, all the time. And thank God, when I lived with him, he didn't have a gun, but then his, his fucking. Wife had a gun, a couple of guns, and he made sure to tell me he had them. He threatened to kill my coach. Uh, my high school coach in a while or threatened to beat his ass. I don't remember which one either threatened to kill him or threatened to beat his ass, but he was like, you're the one helping my kid. And he was like, yeah, he's like, yeah, I should fuck you up or something like that, or I should fucking kill you. And it was like, for what? Because he's being the father role that you wouldn't be, you know, because he gives a fuck and you don't and um. You know, but I think my biggest gripe with that guy. Is the amount of the lack of remorse. And the lack of accountability.

• 1:13:27Speaker 05

  He's not a man. Men take accountability. Men face, you know, they face the choir and and they say, hey, I fucked up.

• 1:13:35Speaker 05

  Never has he ever done that in any time. The, the worst part after I had left was that he made fun of the fact that I was sleeping in a park. Mind you, I slept in a park for less than two weeks. And I joined the wrestling team, so I would shower there. I got one free meal from school.

• 1:13:47Shawn Ryan?

  Hold on, hold on, hold on. Well, let's go back. So. One thing that is on my mind is, is, you know, you, you, you just said that you had thought about either killing yourself or your father. So. I mean, what were those thoughts like?

• 1:14:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, man, uh, so.

• 1:14:07Shawn Ryan?

  Which one would you lean in, were you leaning towards the most?

• 1:14:10Speaker 05

  Killing myself. Yeah.

• 1:14:12Shawn Ryan?

  How were you gonna do it?

• 1:14:15Speaker 05

  Um.

• 1:14:17Speaker 05

  The only thing that ever came to mind, because it was the only thing I had access to was cut my throat. Um.

• 1:14:23Shawn Ryan?

  How old?

• 1:14:24Speaker 05

  I was fifteen.

• 1:14:26Shawn Ryan?

  Fifteen years old?

• 1:14:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, so.

• 1:14:28Shawn Ryan?

  About slitting your own fucking throat.

• 1:14:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, or his. Or his. I got tired of it, man. You know, I got tired of expressing myself and I got tired of feeling that feeling of like worthlessness. I felt like I had no value in life. I felt like I was just breathing air. And um, then when he's trying to cut me off from jujitsu, I'm literally going to school and coming home to an abusive home. And there's nothing positive in my life.

• 1:14:52Speaker 05

  And he made it clear to know, let him know how much he fucking hated me and I should have stayed with your fucking mom. If you were with my mom, if I was with my mom, I probably would have been put in juvie, which was probably true at that point with our relationship. She had, she had threatened to put me away in a home. Uh, but I also hated my mom's guts because it's what I was convinced to do. Um. And I started cursing at my mom. You know, before we had left, you know, tell her to fuck off. And one of the worst things for me that I, I still feel bad about. Uh, what my mom is. Lying about where my dad was when he was cheating on her, because I was given that responsibility to not tell. I know, yeah.

• 1:15:29Shawn Ryan?

  You knew.

• 1:15:30Speaker 05

  So when she left, um, there was one instance, he, he took advantage that I love video games. And it was the only thing I had. I didn't have friends to come over all the time. You know what I mean? It's not like I got his cellphone, uh, unless I had like a little phone, but I didn't, I had like two people's numbers, his and like one friend. Um, and, uh, one time he fuck it, it was like two AM and he fucking leaves. This is actually a great, great part to tell. So my mom's living with one of her friends at a farm with my four sisters and they're living in like, it basically was a shithole and they were all sleeping in. Her living room on fucking couches and like blow up mattresses and stuff. So it's not like they had the comfort of like living in a nice house. They were living in a shitty situation, but they were just happy to be away from him.

• 1:16:14Speaker 05

  And I wasn't, I was stuck with him and we lived off, she was gone for about six months and me and my father lived on instant oatmeal. Uh, for breakfast, lunch and dinner, besides the free lunch that I would get sometimes from the school. And electric got shut off at one point. And one of my, uh, black friends named Scott Roseboro, um, his grandmother had fronted us money so we could stay there because we were gonna get evicted. And then our electric got shut off and she paid that, um. All for him in the end, you know, a short story, all for him in the end to call him, uh, a racial slur, which you know what that means. And never pay her back. So he ruined my friendship with her, um, I was still close with, you know, my friend Scott, but you know, we lost connection over the years just because.

• 1:16:58Speaker 05

  I think things just got awkward, um. But, uh, yeah, so at like two AM, he goes and leaves to go bang this woman. Who was cheating on her husband as well. Um, and, and they, they fuck in the car. And only time he let me play fucking video games is when he was going out to do something fucked up. And, um, and then when he was with this woman that he wound up moving at, but wait, before I jump onto that, so he goes and he does that thing. The lady's husband winds up finding out. Uh, I don't know if it was days later or weeks later or whatever, because they were fucking around for a little while. And I wasn't talking to my mom at all when she had left, so, um. The guy finds out and comes to the house, says he's gonna kill me and him.

• 1:17:42Speaker 05

  And he's an older dude and he, he couldn't fight, dude was a bitch, but show, shows up. Banging on the door and my dad, the coward that he is, fucking hides in another room and tells me if he walks in, hit him with this. And I had a, he had a wooden bat, like a wooden staff and it had like fucking, I don't know if it was electrical tape or something, but basically he had a wooden bat. So I stood behind the door and if he was gonna walk in, I was gonna crack that motherfucker right in his head. And, um, thank God he didn't come in the house. But my dad was in the fucking dining room hiding like a little bitch and was ready to let me take the downfall for something he did. Holy shit. But it shows the type of coward he is. How old were you when that happened? Uh.

• 1:18:22Speaker 05

  Fifteen. Geez. Fifteen, just turned fifteen. So, and um. You know, what's fucked up about that situation is the girl had spent her sweet sixteen money on me and brought us Thanksgiving dinner. And so it was a really, it was just a really dark time. It was a very, that was the first part where I remember feeling like I was always like sad and felt alone. I always felt like a, a voiceless kid. Um, where. I didn't know how to express myself because I couldn't talk to anybody. I couldn't confide in my sisters because they didn't know any better. We're all taught the same thing, which is fucking telling each other. And the second you get in a fight, throw something that's hurtful in their face and we would cut deep.

• 1:19:01Speaker 05

  So I wouldn't tell anybody anything, but that was the first time where I just really started feeling like depressed and I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with me? I didn't know it was depression. I didn't know what it was. I just. I had never learned what emotions were and didn't know how to process it. And it was just like, what the fuck is going on in my life? And um, so that was that situation. Then my mother moves back. And they try to figure things out.

• 1:19:26Speaker 05

  And he's fucking.

• 1:19:27Speaker 05

  How do you feel about your mom coming back? I missed her. You did? Regardless of how I hated her or thought I hated her, I missed her. Um. It felt.

• 1:19:39Speaker 05

  Yeah. It felt like a part of me died when she left. And just felt very empty. I mean, we would blanket off when she was gone. We were so broke because he would only make like eight hundred bucks a month. We blanket off the living room and get a propane torch and a propane tank. And that's how we'd heat the living room and fucking eat and stay oatmeal for about six months. We would boil water just to have hot water because we didn't have propane. I couldn't afford to do it. Didn't have oil to heat the house. So I would boil, it would take fucking two hours to boil water just to have a warm bath. And by the time you fucking did all that, the water's warm. And it's fucking like thirty nine degrees in your fucking house where you can't even sleep in your room. You have to sleep on the couch.

• 1:20:20Speaker 05

  So, yeah, and I'm still going to school and things like that. Came home, the electric was off. It was just fucking dark. It sucked. I had my first Thanksgiving without my mom. And that's where like music was such a big help in my life.

• 1:20:33Speaker 05

  And this guy seemed to be fucking thrashing because he was getting pussy. So, um, then my mom came back and he was still cheating on her and um. I remember my mom crying because they were supposed to be working things out and she was crying and begging and asking me to tell her the truth and I was like, hey, is that the gym training? And she knew that wasn't true. But I just remember her crying and I just kept a straight face and kept playing video games and refused to like answer her question because I thought if I had said something, I was fucking putting me and him in a jeopardizing situation.

• 1:21:05Speaker 05

  And that's one thing that still bothers me because I know how hurtful that is. Um, having gone through my own relationships and failures. And, um, so yeah, that sucked. So then we fucking move. He leaves her, we move, we move into an apartment. And after the divorce and everything with my mom and stuff, I testified that I never wanted to see her again, which would stick until I was about eighteen. Um, because I thought she fucking hated our guts and was gonna take money from us and we were broke and all this shit. But I was really just brainwashed, man. So it sucked. I didn't have any contact with her and, um.

• 1:21:44Speaker 05

  You know, then this lady kind of tried to like force this role of like a mom and he tried to say that, you know, your mom doesn't even give a fuck about you. That's why she didn't want to fucking see you and all this and. She's the one that got you into school. He acted like because they put me in public school, which you're supposed to fucking do. That this was like my new mom and I had to treat her that way. And I was like, fuck out of here. I got a mom. So I never adopted her as my mom. I never fucking liked the woman. Um. Always thought she was fucking on the spectrum in my opinion, so. And, um. Yeah, I hated her guts and every time she had an autistic daughter and she would basically go in and touch my family photos that I had taken. And I would get really upset and be like, get the fuck off my shit. And he would come back and beat me the fuck up over that.

• 1:22:30Speaker 05

  So, the fact that he beat me up over another woman's daughter who was touching my fucking belongings that weren't hers, regardless of your special needs, stay the fuck off my shit. And, uh, you know, one time she was like, "Yeah,

• 1:22:47Speaker 05

  I don't mean to like, the daughter, she was like, "I don't mean to, you know, talk about your family or nothing, but your mom sounds like a complete fucking bitch." I was like, "Bro, you can't even fucking feed yourself. Shut the fuck up." I remember like snapping out. And he beat the fuck out of me for that. Oh man, he couldn't wait to do it. I mean, this dude rushed home to beat me up. Whatever he was doing, he rushed home to stop my fucking head. Beat the fuck out of me for it. And then goes in there and next thing you know, I hear him fucking his fucking girl. So, uh, he's a lucky man, bro. He's a lucky man. And, and he's still out there till this day trying to fuck with me.

• 1:23:23Speaker 06

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked three hundred fifty thousand Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:23:52Speaker 00

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 1:24:03Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:24:09Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped growing? You starve, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  With great power, comes great deniability.

• 1:24:17Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under seventeen. Not a minute without parent.

• 1:24:23Shawn Ryan?

  But you say you left at fifteen, correct?

• 1:24:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:24:26Shawn Ryan?

  And so, I mean-

• 1:24:26Speaker 05

  Right before I turned sixteen. I literally was turning like sixteen that week.

• 1:24:30Shawn Ryan?

  What are you in, eighth grade? Like thirteen, fourteen years old?

• 1:24:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:24:33Shawn Ryan?

  So it took you two years to figure it out?

• 1:24:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, two and a half years. I realized at fifteen, he was a liar, and that's when it really broke my heart. I realized all the lies he was telling, and I was like, "Damn, my father's a fucking liar." And then that's when I started turning on him. And I started having resentment for him. And then I was starting to challenge him by asking questions, which he hated.

• 1:24:55Speaker 05

  And uh.

• 1:24:56Shawn Ryan?

  What kind of questions would you ask him?

• 1:24:59Speaker 05

  Like, why'd you tell this person this when you just did this? And he would be like, mind your fucking business. And um, you know, I'd be like. Well, you told me when we left, we were gonna do this and play ga- and play games and you were gonna live the bachelor life, but we were gonna do everything together, like build this business with the outboard motors, or we were gonna rebuild a truck together and it wouldn't happen. And I was like, bro, you do nothing with me anymore. And just the stories he would tell people. Like, the guy has his god complex. Like, he has something that everybody else fucking wants. At fifteen years old, like I said, he tried to cut me off from jujitsu. He goes, man, I'm fucking done with the game. All these motherfuckers want what I got.

• 1:25:41Speaker 05

  What the fuck do you got? What did you go do that everybody wants, bro? Like, I'm not even insulting, I'm just asking the question. So I remember telling him, why do you tell everybody that you were a hundred and fifteen and four, but I've looked you up on the internet and I can't find it? Who the fuck are you to question me? Got beat up over that, fucking jumped up, fucking punched me in my face. Um, si- simple things. He, mind you, this happened almost all the time. Like, I would play basketball across the street. We used to live on, it's called Sandy Bank fucking Road in Media PA. We lived at one Sandy Bank Road. Nobody lives there anymore, so I don't give a fuck to say the address. But Walden, Walden Elementary was right across the street and had a little basketball court. So I would go play fucking basketball with the kids that I just became friends with as the new kid, which was already uncomfortable.

• 1:26:25Speaker 05

  You know, I went from a school of three hundred and forty fucking kids in the middle of nowhere to a school that had sixteen hundred kids. And I'm the new guy again.

• 1:26:35Speaker 05

  So I would go fucking play basketball. I was supposed to be home at eight o'clock. I walked in the door at eight oh three. Second, I'm, the, the guy was malicious. So that means you would have had to watch out the window to watch me fucking walk home. And he would wait behind the door. And second, I walked in and fucking punched me in the face as hard as he could and dropped me. Just because I was three minutes late. From across the street where you can visually fucking see me playing basketball with kids. Not stealing, not doing drugs, not, never did it. Not lying about where I'm at. And um. Yeah, so it was just the kinda guy that he fucking was, man. And um, but I would, I would question him all the time. And so after the beatings, I would go on like these hour-long fucking runs, like, like two-hour runs, or I would just go walk for like six hours straight.

• 1:27:20Speaker 05

  In the documentary, there's a good part where, you know, my coach is driving by, he used to live in Delco. Uh, it's the areas, you know, it's like a couple towns in one, like, it's, it's a couple towns and, and all, but they could just call the area Delco. And, and he, my coach Stan Morpiza, uh, lived in that area. And um, I'd just gotten fucked up, got beat up, and I'm walking down the street and I have like, fucking Walgreens headphones. And, and I'm like crying and I'm angry and I'm squeezing my fucking hands because I wanted to kill him. So I just would go on walks for an hour and he would see me crying down the street walking and he was like, I just wanted to pull over and help you, but I wasn't in the position to, you know, you're still living at home with your father. But I, you, like, I would just walk for hours. And then he would threaten to call the cops if I didn't come back.

• 1:28:04Speaker 05

  So it's like, you beat the fuck out of me. And then I go to leave and just walk, clear my head, and then he would say, get the fuck back now. It was always, it was just a control thing, man. And uh, one of the last beatings I got, I'll give you the last beating that I got. It was a three-part beating, so it starts over this game called, I think it was Uncharted 3 or Uncharted 4. And we were playing Call of. And I was getting all the kills. I've always been good at video games, whatever. Dude starts freaking the fuck out, bugging out over me getting more kills than him. You steal my fucking kills, you're always trying to outdo me and all this shit, you fucking scumbag, piece of shit, all. And I'm just sitting there, I'm like smiling at first, then he takes the controller and that's why he fucking freaks out.

• 1:28:49Speaker 05

  He takes me smiling, like, what the fuck do you want me to respond? Like, I'm just gonna keep doing my thing, like, I'm playing a fucking video game, we're on the same team, you dick. Like, so he takes the controller and fucking chucks it at me, splits my fucking head. I still have a scar in the middle of my head from it. And uh, so I have start blood coming down my face. And I looked at him like I wanted to kill him. And he was like, yeah, you wanna fucking try me? So he jumps up, he's like, you wanna fucking try me? Starts typing himself up and then just starts letting off on me in the living room. So I just curl up and uh, eventually I have like a blood full mouth. I started laughing at him.

• 1:29:23Speaker 05

  I guess I I was like, I don't give a fuck. You can't break me bitch like so I started laughing. He's like, go pack your shit. So I started packing my bag, comes in the room. Takes all my shit, throws it on the floor, starts fucking swinging on me again. He was like, yeah, there's all the shit I've done for you. Starts swinging on me again. We fight and then fucking. And I never swung back. And when I say fight, I'm just curling up. I'm just trying to defend as best as I can.

• 1:29:46Speaker 05

  And he's like, like grunting, like you could tell he loved it. He would grunt every time he would hit me like. Like every single time, trying to put everything he had into it, but. Little bitch couldn't knock me out. So, uh. There's that. And then I wind up walking out of the room. I put my bag on the couch. And he corners me in the kitchen and he starts fucking swinging on me again. And he's like, I'm gonna kill you, motherfucker. I'm gonna fucking kill you. Comes back fucking like leaves for like five seconds, comes back. I should have just ran out of the door.

• 1:30:17Speaker 05

  But, you know, a little fear locked up, I guess at that point. Uh, or a little hope that he was gonna like fucking calm down before I fucking left and he fucking pulls out a pocket knife and he starts walking towards me. He's gonna fucking stab me with it. He's like, I'll fucking kill you. I'm gonna fucking gut you and all this shit. So I fucking shoved him right over the fucking table. It was like a little plastic table. Shoved him over the table, grabbed my fucking bag, ran out of the house and never went back.

• 1:30:42Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, man.

• 1:30:43Speaker 05

  Slept in the park for almost two weeks. Wind up meeting a kid that was getting racially bullied that I stood up for, um.

• 1:30:50Shawn Ryan?

  Hold on, you slept in a park for two weeks?

• 1:30:52Speaker 05

  Almost two weeks, yeah.

• 1:30:54Shawn Ryan?

  How old, fifteen?

• 1:30:55Speaker 05

  Nine days, yeah, fifteen. I was turning sixteen like the week after. So. No birthday for me. But. Joined the wrestling team. Wasn't school had started.

• 1:31:07Shawn Ryan?

  Did that, did the school have any idea that you were sleeping?

• 1:31:10Speaker 05

  Eventually, eventually, no, because this was before school season. School started like, um.

• 1:31:17Speaker 05

  I was in the park for maybe three days before school started. So then I was in the park for about a week after that and then, you know, we had pre-practice and things like that. So I would just use the locker rooms to go shower. But, uh, yeah, it was, uh, it was unfortunate. But we had the pre-practice for the summertime already for wrestling season. So we would do lifts and we'd do runs. So that's how I was already being able to shower and go to school already. And, uh, I wound up meeting this kid who was getting racially bullied, uh, in the lifting room. They were calling him fat and all this shit. And listen, he was definitely, he definitely has a disability of some sort, a, a special something. Even if it's on the spectrum, something like it was very socially awkward child.

• 1:32:00Speaker 05

  Um, and it was very evident, but, um, yeah, I, I wound up asking him if he had anywhere or knew anyone of a place that I could live or room that I could rent. And he happened to have his brother that was in juvie for arson and tried to light somebody's house on fire with a trash can in the garage. Um, and he was away at juvie. Um, they were two African kids adopted by a white Welsh man, who was the middle school teacher at Springton Lake to Pencrest High School, which is where I went. In the same town, which was Media PA. And, um, man, talk about living conditions. There was fucking maggots, black mold, asbestos. Uh, what's, what was once like white carpets or cream colored carpets were fucking the color of this couch

• 1:32:45Speaker 05

  from cat piss infested house. Um, they never cleaned anything. It, it was disgusting. Um, it probably took a couple of years off my health to be honest. Um, I lived off microwave food for the next two years of my, rest of my high school life. And, um, the father was a really bad alcoholic, wound up losing his job. Um, was suffering with liver failure, um, started having eyesight problems and all these things. So when I had gotten my license, I was the one taking to the doctor's appointments. I was the one buying groceries. I was the one trying to make the house clean. Um, I bought like the, the glue tiles where you would buy glue and then fucking put it on the floor and fucking like, you know, I tried to make it nice. And, um,

• 1:33:30Speaker 05

  You know, I'd wind up doing the whole upstairs and things like that. His father funded it. My dad spends it now that I stole from him by doing that. Um, or So. Uh, by saying that because the guy would give me his card to go buy his groceries that he wanted because he was physically unable. And I was the only one that was trusted as a driver and had a driver's license to go do it. My dad tells people that I stole from him and has now been friends with the kid that I used to live with and says that I was a racist to him. Says that I stole from his father and the kid believes it. So, um, but that's what my dad does. He finds weak people to prey on, um, and brainwash and, um.

• 1:34:10Speaker 05

  Unfortunately for them, they're not smart enough to look past the type of true person that he is. So we aren't friends and we haven't been friends and you know, also my gripe with him was that he was friend with friends. See, the thing is, man, it's like, I'm trying to be a little bit reserved because I don't want to put people shit out there. But basically, I mean, I mean, this kid's trying to fucking text my family who he met one time. Um, things that are very unfair, but the kid's best friend was a fucking child molester. And my dad says I beat him up because I'm a racist, but I beat him up because he brought a fucking child molester over to the house. And the kid was nineteen and fucked a twelve year old. So I told him, clear as day, I don't give a fuck if this is your house or not. I take care of, I take care of the house. I take care of your dad that you don't give a fuck about.

• 1:34:55Speaker 05

  If you fucking bring that kid over here, I'm gonna fuck you up. Brought the kid over here, kicked the kid the fuck out, threw him out and then fucked him up. Damn. And that was, that was the end of us. And then one time I told him that he didn't give a fuck about his father and. You know, but mind you, mind you, the things that my dad is trying to stick on me are things as a teenager. I'm still not a man. I'm still an adolescent child. I'm still a teenager trying to figure out his way. You know, I gotta make decisions now as a man, and that's one thing I always owned up to. I fucked up. I have fucked up. I've said some things that I probably shouldn't have said. I've done some things that I probably shouldn't have done. But I didn't hurt anybody in that process. I didn't take anything from everybody. I was never malicious. I never tried to ruin anybody's life and.

• 1:35:40Shawn Ryan?

  You are a product of.

• 1:35:42Speaker 05

  My environment.

• 1:35:43Shawn Ryan?

  Your environment.

• 1:35:44Speaker 05

  But is that an excuse after you leave home? No, I don't take that.

• 1:35:47Shawn Ryan?

  I'm not trying to give you, I'm not trying to give you an excuse, but I mean, you don't fucking know any better.

• 1:35:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:35:53Shawn Ryan?

  That's how you're raised for.

• 1:35:54Speaker 05

  I had no guidance.

• 1:35:55Shawn Ryan?

  Exactly.

• 1:35:56Speaker 05

  I had no, I, I met my grandfather a few times. I met my grandmother a few times on my dad's side. I don't remember my mom's mom. I didn't, we weren't, I didn't have aunts, uncles, cousins, fucking grandparents that we saw or watched us or ever came to visit us. I think my grandfather came to visit us maybe two or three times ever. Um, but I don't blame the guy because my dad's a fucking douchebag to work with. You know, I, I, I, looking back, it was like, we used to be really upset about that. Like he never comes and sees us, but that's how he would say it. To be like, look, your grandfather's a fucking scumbag. But it's not. It's, he's the scumbag. He's the one who's always fucking causing division. So, yeah, um. You know, this kid fucking brought him over and we wound up parting ways and, uh, now my dad has latched on to him and tried to

• 1:36:41Speaker 05

  coach him in boxing to not get bullied by people like me. And has convinced him that I did him wrong and I stole from his father and all these things. And it's just wild, man. It's, it's really wild. He latched on to an ex-girlfriend of mine. Um. That I had an abusive relationship with where she was physically abusive to me. And, um, you know. And I don't give a fuck to say it because I can own it as a man, but you know, this, this girl had cheated on me so many times. So I would put holes in the wall. You know, not knowing how to channel that rage or wanting to fight guys over it and things like that, but I was one of these guys who was like, oh, you're broken. I'm broken. Me and you against the world, but you know, that's not, that's not healthy and it didn't work out that way. So.

• 1:37:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, man. Um. My dad has been there. I'll tell you this. He's never been there to one single fight that I've left him tickets for, which was my first three or four amateur fights. Um, and he took pleasure in it because one time I shattered him out. Uh, thinking he was there because he told me he was there and he was never there and, uh, he never showed up. Um, but in his documentary, he tells me my hands, people, a guy who doesn't even fucking know me. They're saying that my hands were the best they ever were when I was working with my father. And that's why I'm the fighter I am and all this. I'm like, brother, we stopped training together at fifteen. He said he was done with the game. All these guys want what he's got. He said, you ain't fucking training with these people no more. Fuck this guy. Fuck that guy. And he calls my one coach, Samor Pisa, Sammy the Snake, because he was so threatened

• 1:38:12Speaker 05

  to have somebody else come and coach his kid. Because like he said, all he cared about was they're gonna come and take what I built. That's how, exactly how he would say it in front of me. They're gonna ta- they're gonna come try and fucking take what I built. I built you motherfucker. You owe me my, you owe me your life. You ain't shit without me. You've never been shit without me. You would be a fucking bum. You'd be fucking sweeping floors. But that was the normal talk. That's how I was talked to every day of my fucking life. Every day of my life, including my sisters. That, you know.

• 1:38:41Speaker 05

  I think yoga pants started coming out when, which I agree. I don't think fucking little girls should be wearing fucking yoga pants. That's my own opinion. I'm a traditional guy. But they would have little pocketbooks and that my mom would get them, very inexpensive. Um, you know, and they'd wanna walk around or they started getting into makeup, girly things. And they would call them fucking whores and skanks and, um, a great example of how you treat my, one of my sisters with their own abuses. My second oldest sister was in her junior year of high school, I believe. I may be wrong, but I think it was junior year.

• 1:39:15Speaker 05

  And she told somebody in school or her counselor that she wanted to kill herself because she felt like her father didn't love her. So the concern, the concerned Joe Pfeiffer that my fa- the fourth that my father is, goes to the school with, I think my mom. Uh, my mom, I asked my mom about it. She don't remember it. Um, she remembers the situation, but she doesn't remember if she was there or not. Uh, but anyway, I'm pretty sure all those kids went to pick her up with my dad and he's like, oh, man, I don't know why she would say that. Super concerned, like, you know, looking at her like he's upset about it, like, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know why she'd be like that. So we go home. He gives her the keys to open the door. As she's opening the door, and all of us kids are there,

• 1:39:57Speaker 05

  he grabs her by her fucking hair in the back of her jeans and fucking chucks her on her fucking face, face first on the floor. Second, we get home. Then he picks her up by her fucking neck and slams her in between the couch and starts strangling her in between the couch. And then we all start trying to pull him off and he fucking beats the shit out of me for it. And uh, that's how you treated your daughter who was suicidal. So, um, there was an instance where one of my friends were over and my sister was like trying to convince him to cut her wrists. And he fucking beat the shit out of the kid. Um. But you know, it was some dark shit dude. It was some weird fucking just, just weird fucking shit. Just, you know, but the guy.

• 1:40:40Speaker 05

  Has never taken accountability for one single fucking thing. I've watched this guy literally tell me to my face that my grandmother on my mom's side had a miscarriage. Um, and buried the kid in the backyard and he was crying to me one time after I'd already moved away for about a year. Uh, after I ran away. And I'm trying to reconcile reconcile with them or have some type of relationship because at the time, everybody that didn't know details is saying you only have one father, you only have one father. And that used to, that used to guilt me because I had a good heart, man. And, uh, I, I, I was a Christian and I always believed in trying to forgive, trying to forgive, get past it, trying to forgive, but.

• 1:41:14Shawn Ryan?

  You were a Christian or you are a Christian?

• 1:41:15Speaker 05

  I am a Christian, yeah. And, um, I, I lost my faith a little bit from the, probably about eighteen till like twenty-three. Maybe twenty-four.

• 1:41:24Shawn Ryan?

  See that?

• 1:41:25Speaker 05

  Um, I was pretty bitter. Um, cause there was a lot of things that I prayed for that never came true the way I wanted, but you know, looking back, I've lived a beautiful life, um. Of pain and success and, uh, everything that has happened has happened for a reason. Um, and it's all been. I think God's timing, so.

• 1:41:46Shawn Ryan?

  I saw that you carry a picture of yourself at age ten years old.

• 1:41:51Speaker 05

  You saw I carry a picture?

• 1:41:52Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, is that true?

• 1:41:54Speaker 05

  I don't carry a picture of myself. No. What picture is this?

• 1:41:59Shawn Ryan?

  I must've read it somewhere that said that you, to remind you.

• 1:42:03Speaker 05

  I have a, uh, I don't carry it with me, but I do have a picture. I don't carry, I don't carry a picture of myself, but I do have a picture that I hold on to and it's, it's me. Um, at probably, you know, under two years old with boxing gloves and a headgear on. And I hold on to that because, um.

• 1:42:24Speaker 05

  Like, I was really convinced I was gonna be a fucking nobody. But I will say, the thing that kept me going was I had this gut feeling that I was, I don't wanna say better than other people, but I always believed I was above the competition. I always believed like, I had this feeling like I'm meant to be more than the average. I just had this feeling, just had this feeling, just had this feeling. So I had all the other depression and all the other feelings too, but this, I know I'm not, this isn't, this isn't it for me. And that's what kept me going, you know, from not hurting myself. Um, and then, high school was the hardest time, for me, because I was fucking angry at that point. And, uh, I really didn't have any filter anymore.

• 1:43:07Speaker 05

  And I didn't give a fuck how people viewed me, whether they thought I was crazy or angry or whatever, but I had been saying since I was in middle school, I was gonna fight. I wanted to hurt people. I wanted to fight. I wanted to fight. I wanted to fight. And that's exactly what I would say. I wanna fuck people up. I wanna hurt people. And I wanna make them feel the same fucking pain that I felt. And, uh, it was the greatest motivation I could, like, rage has its time and its place. And it got me through the early years until I became more mature and understood emotions and was able to control, and just digest why I'm angry, or what's, what are you holding on to that you haven't let go, or, what, what are you holding on to that you haven't forgiven? Um, and, uh, yeah, so, yeah.

• 1:43:52Shawn Ryan?

  What was it that made you understand emotions?

• 1:43:55Speaker 05

  My coaches, my coaches, you know, seeing the way that they lived, how they loved their wives, how they loved their kids, um, how they treated their friends, and, uh, you know, Sam Morpise and Will Harmon combined have been a savior for me. Will Harmon, if I didn't have that guy, regardless of everything that I went through. If that man didn't take me in, I wouldn't be here. Um, I would have never made the UFC. He gave me four years of free housing and a home, a stable life, good food and um, unconditional love and support, which I've never had.

• 1:44:27Shawn Ryan?

  Was that your wrestling coach?

• 1:44:28Speaker 05

  That was my wrestling coach.

• 1:44:29Shawn Ryan?

  How did that relationship develop?

• 1:44:31Speaker 05

  So I was wrestling, I joined the wrestling team and we had red versus gold, which was, you know, for varsity matches. But I'd already won my position. Another kid had already won his position. He was a weight class above me. I was a weight class below him. I was 170, he was 182. And they wanted to find out who the best kid in the school was. And I actually hated my head coach for it, Gregory Jacobs, who I love now. Um, you know, dumb child in me hated him, but

• 1:44:58Speaker 05

  they wanted to see who the best wrestler was on our team. And I wound up beating him. Uh, but I remember being so angry about it because I felt like they're trying, they just want to see me fucking lose because I've said I was an MMA kid. Like all these people are against me and I remember everybody's parents being there. And I was the only one on the other side of the gym by myself and the only other person. So we had, we had the wrestling mat, the gym floor, the basketball court, and then we had an upstairs indoor track. And Will Harmon was up on the indoor track on my side. Only guy. And um, I got my headphones and I'm pacing back and forth and I'm like fucking mad. Like I'm gonna try and kill this kid and blah, blah, blah. That was just my attitude for competition and um,

• 1:45:41Speaker 05

  you know, I look up at him and I'm like, look at this. I was like, look at all these motherfuckers and their parents. I say, I ain't got shit. He goes, who cares about that? He's like, just go out there and give it your best, man. He was like, I believe you. I believe you can do it. And those words, man, um, because I just remember his face. I just remember his face looking down and he was like, I believe you can do it. And that's all I needed, bro. That was, that was like a fucking fire to the, the most. It, it lit a fire that was crazy. And uh, I went out there and I beat him, you know, it's not nothing to brag about. It was, you know, he was a good teammate and a friend till this day. But at that time, you know, everybody was talking shit that I was gonna get beat. And he's the kid that's been to the states or been to regions already. I've never wrestled because that was my first real year of wrestling and I beat him.

• 1:46:26Speaker 05

  And uh now I know now I was you know known as the best wrestler in the high school on our team at that time as far as like heavy heavier weights and um yeah you know it was good that was the start of our relationship and you know he was the first person to tell me he loved me uh in a long time and I remember I would I would be there at 6am train go to school be there I was the first one there and the last one to go and uh often a lot of times I would just sit in the wrestling room and just fucking sob after practice at the end of the day because I hated my life and I wanted to be something and I didn't know how to do it but I was just putting all my energy into wrestling and I fucking loved wrestling I loved it I loved working hard I loved fucking suffering

• 1:47:10Speaker 05

  and uh yeah I remember just fucking sobbing many times after practice and Harmon happened to walk in he comes over and just gives me a hug and didn't say anything other than I love you kid and uh yeah Damn man. That was the start of that and um I you know every lunch period I would sit and not sit with kids I hated people my age and I would sit every single day with that man and he would split one of the one of his sandwiches that his wife made him and uh we would just sit there and play chess and talk about life and um yeah that's how I spent my fucking lunch periods with him

• 1:47:47Speaker 05

  so those are sentimental and I get chucked choked up over those because you know I'm so appreciative of what he did and that he didn't have to do and he put his name on the line and his reputation on the line to support a kid like me that could have gone off the deep end and uh you know I never wanted to let him down and um you know obviously uh he's been one of the most important people but you know to answer your question too circling back uh about did the school ever know um I don't know if it's called a truancy officer for if you miss a bunch of school or if you have troubled home or something but somebody did come to the house and I don't know how I got away with it but basically they were like saying I was gonna have to come with them and they came to the place where I was living because I was seventeen and um

• 1:48:31Speaker 05

  Uh. By that time they had come there, I was seventeen and they were like, oh, yeah, you know, you're gonna have to come with us. Or saying something about like if I, if my parents lived here, or was I emancipated or anything like that, something. It was very vague. I'm vague on the details of what they were there for, but it was something about, you know, possibly taking me away. And I remember looking at the chick. And I was a little arrogant prick and I was like, do I look like I'm fucking unhealthy? Do I need your fucking help? And I was like, trust me, if you take me away from here, you ruin my fucking life. And I slammed the door in her face. And I never heard shit, but then they, the psychologists started reaching out to schools, child services, things like that. And I remember snapping on Will Harmon, cause I was like, who the fuck did you tell? Like, I wound up almost turning on him because I thought. He ratted me out and I was gonna get put in a home.

• 1:49:16Speaker 05

  And luckily I didn't. And I don't know how that's possible or how that happened, but um, I'm sure it helped that. I was living with somebody who was a school teacher at the Springton Middle Lake School. Um, but I don't know the details behind that's the why, you know, regardless of how I felt, I'm sure they could have taken me, but they didn't. And I'm just grateful that they didn't. So, um, but yeah, they, they wound up finding, Harmon knew. Harmon knew everything. He was the only person I would tell everything to. I would come to school with a fucked up face back when I was living with him. Um, so, yeah.

• 1:49:50Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 1:49:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:49:52Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think you hated everybody your age?

• 1:49:55Speaker 05

  Because all they cared about was being cool and I didn't give a fuck about being cool. I wanted to be somebody. And I didn't care about telling fucking high school stories about what girl you fucked or. You know, what court you fucking sport. I also didn't like all the fucking football kids. I didn't like any of the track kids, like. They all thought they were hot shit because they were wearing jerseys and. I don't know. I don't like kids.

• 1:50:17Shawn Ryan?

  You think it was because you felt resentment that? I think. Aren't living like the, the way that you were brought up?

• 1:50:24Speaker 05

  I always wanted to play football and I didn't get to. Um, but I don't know if it was resentment, I just.

• 1:50:31Speaker 05

  I think I was much more mature than I thought I was by that time. And I saw like the real ugly part of life. In one way, you know, obviously, you know, like I said, mine's very average compared to some of the stories out there, but um. Yeah, I just think I didn't. Connect with kids that did dumb shit, talking about smoking weed and drinking and fucking girls and going to parties. That wasn't me. I had no desire to drink, party, smoke. Um. You know, I definitely did my fair share of whoring around. Uh, but that was to fill a void. And um. You know, it was the only love. Or acceptance or validation that I got. When I was frustrated and felt alone, so.

• 1:51:16Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, I just didn't see the value in what they did. I wanted to be an athlete. I wanted to be in the UFC and I was saying that. Since I was in middle school, so I didn't, I didn't relate to these kids when they would talk about these stories. And then they would always fucking try to tell you like you weren't allowed to say the R word. You can't say retard. And I'm like, bro, shut the fuck up like. I'll say what the fuck I want. And so I didn't like being around those fucking nerdy kids. Um, then you had the guys that thought they were fucking tough. I was almost in a fistfight every fucking day. But none of them would fistfight. Dude, when I went to this school, where the school I came from, everybody would fistfight. Then I go to this school and it's like preppy kids and they all talk shit, but then you would run up in their face and they'd be like, kind of shocked that you're about to fight them. And I'm like.

• 1:51:59Speaker 05

  Well, what the fuck did you talk shit for if you weren't ready to fight? It was like mind boggling to me. And everybody thought I was crazy because I was actually wanting to fight people over talking shit. So a lot of kids thought I was fucking nuts. And uh, well, it wasn't. It just was about it. And um. I had a couple of funny instances, so. Um. Never like a, a full blown out fight in high school, but um. Yeah, I had some funny things, so.

• 1:52:26Shawn Ryan?

  How did you, how did you reconnect with your mom?

• 1:52:29Speaker 05

  So it's very recent, um.

• 1:52:31Shawn Ryan?

  It's recent.

• 1:52:32Speaker 05

  It's, yeah, it's very recent. It's been almost a year, um.

• 1:52:39Speaker 05

  I despised my mom for a little bit, um, when I was a little less mature. But how can I really fall to a woman who was getting abused the same way as I was? Um, and just for that reason, because she's a woman is why I give her forgiveness and an excuse because

• 1:53:00Speaker 05

  she was traditional. She was a Christian woman, uh, was a Christian woman. She doesn't really identify with Christianity anymore, but um, nonetheless, you know, she lives her life how she wants, but

• 1:53:14Speaker 05

  she was a 24 year old woman who had never been with another man. And grew up in the church and met my father at the church because he was going to commit suicide apparently by jumping off the bridge. They wind up sending him to a church. After they got him off the bridge and then that's how he met my mother. That's how they got connected. Um, so she thought he was her forever after, you know, and she was willing to go through thick and thin and, and you know, and do anything possible to make it work. Um, and obviously it failed and she has never been with another man since. So, um, he ruined the rest of her happy ending. So, uh.

• 1:53:51Shawn Ryan?

  How did you reconnect?

• 1:53:54Speaker 05

  My sister, it's a fucked up situation. My youngest sister was basically homeless because

• 1:54:02Speaker 05

  my, like I said, they're very backbiting towards each other and they've been much better since I've been in the picture. Um, because I won't tolerate it. Uh. Because the way I see it, just to, to under, so that you, so you understand why I think they respect it is because the perspective in which I've given it to him, if I can fucking come out and be a better person, so can you and you have no fucking excuse because I kept enduring the abuse. While you guys were free from it, free from it. And I had to run away. You guys got the privilege of not having to deal with him again and, um, and you guys have one life and I tried to put it in the perspective of we have one life to know each other. I have one life to know you and everybody else that I meet.

• 1:54:48Speaker 05

  And if you're genuinely okay with treating each other like this when we're supposed to be the deepest love bonded people in our lives, like then you're a true piece of shit. And um, that's exactly what I told them. If you guys don't learn to love each other, then you're all pieces of shit. So um, I think they've kinda been trying their best and it's been pretty good. Um, but they've done some malicious things to each other. So I'm not proud of it. Uh, and I don't support it and I don't condone it and I want them to be better because that's what I want to be around. I don't want to be around shitty people. Whether you call yourself my mother or my sister or my father, if you're a shitty person, I'm not gonna be around you. Um, I don't have time for that shit. My life's too short as it is. I can't believe I'm 28

• 1:55:31Speaker 05

  already. I can't believe I'm here. You know, like, who would have thought fucking little Joey Pfeiffer is sitting on the Sean Ryan show or has been on Joe Rogan or is about to break in the top 15 in the UFC. But because I believed and put it out there and put the work in, put the right people around me, all this has come true, right? You know, so I reconnected with them because my sister Rachel, so I have two younger sisters, the older of the two youngest is Rachel, and then there's Amy. And basically, they were feuding and Amy had basically told my sisters, um, I guess she didn't say baby daddy, some problems that she was having and basically ratted on her and it kinda like was a really scumbag fucking thing to do, knowing

• 1:56:15Speaker 05

  that she's going through a custody battle. So my sister refused to let her come back to the house after she had lost her job. So my sister was sleeping in the car in the park. I don't think it was that long. I think it was a day or two or a week or something like that, but you know, nonetheless, that's your fucking baby sister. And I hadn't talked to these people in six years almost, after I punched my sister's boyfriend in the fucking mouth.

• 1:56:40Speaker 05

  And um. This is two weeks before my last fight uh last year uh International Fight Week. I'd knocked out a guy named Mark Andre Barial and I just had this guilty conscience because they had all reached out before trying to ask for help, but it was all monetary and I was like, no, fuck off. Like if you can't fucking have a relationship with me and give a fuck about me as a person, but I'm only good enough for you guys to need something, then go fuck yourself. Get away from me. And that's how my attitude was, but you know, I'm not a. It bothered me when I heard she was really struggling. And then that's when I was like, okay, now I need to step in because this is just fucking ridiculous. Like what is going on with these people? And my sister had kind of taken over in a sense, you know, I don't think she meant to, but she was kind of stuck in this fog where

• 1:57:25Speaker 05

  she thought she was running shit at the house. And I had to remind her, this is my mom's house. Since I was four years old, you don't run shit. And I don't give a fuck what bill you pay. If you don't pay the rent and you're not on the lease, you don't run shit. And don't be a fucking scumbag, you know, shoe, if the shoe was on the other foot. You would always want somebody to give you a little bit of grace and give you that chance. It's not like somebody got killed. It's not like somebody got, you know, raped or fucking stolen or something, you know, crazy. This is a family fight. Get the fuck over it. And I tried to give them that perspective and uh so I showed up, I went down there, I met her at the park and then I drove there. My sister started running her mouth and she was heated, obviously, because

• 1:58:06Speaker 05

  she felt like my youngest sister had a role in her having a really bad case with her children custody wise. Which I understand. I don't think you should fuck with somebody's kids. But yeah, I went to paying the rent for a few months for them. Um so they could get on their feet and she could handle some of the lawyer bills and things like that. And then I also paid a couple thousand dollars to fix my mom's truck that they that blew up on her. It's all they had. It was the only thing they had to drive hours to exchange their kids for my sister. So between. You know, my mom working full time, she's a truck driver. Um, and my sister needing to drive fucking six, seven hours every other week to exchange her daughter at that time. You know, that's the only car they have.

• 1:58:49Speaker 05

  So, um, I did it for the kids. I did it for her. I did it for my mom. And so I get back and I helped them and I told them like, I'm not here to reconcile, but I'm here to hopefully inspire you guys to fucking give a fuck about each other again. Cause it breaks my heart and that's why I don't want to be around you. I want to see my sisters fucking thriving in life. But this is the thing that I hate about my father, though. This motherfucker did so much damage. Women take damage differently than men. Hundred percent. Uh huh. They're just different creatures. And you, I'm sure you would agree. They all have been in domestic violent abusive relationships. Except for my second oldest sister. I think he's a pretty even keel guy. He's had his problems. I'm not going to put them out there, but I'm pretty sure he's pretty good to her. Or at least works.

• 1:59:34Speaker 05

  I have my feelings about him is what it is. But, you know, they have four kids together. My oldest sister has two kids together, apparently, you know, he hits her and is threatening to kill her and things like that. And my sister hit me up, um, to help her get the kids out of the house. And I said, no, because it's been six years and I can't afford to jeopardize everything that I've built for someone I don't even think gives a fuck about me unless they need something. And it's always been funny to me, you know, they caught me, they've done this thing where they've cut me out or I've cut them off. Um, it's really them that cuts me off and then when shit really gets, when it, when shit really gets tough and there's some deep shit going down, then the brother's good enough. I'm the only one that understands. That's what they've all hit me with the same punchline.

• 2:00:19Speaker 05

  And I, it took me a while to forgive them, you know, but I forgive them. I love them all. I forgive them all. I love them all. Um, I've said some shit that's mean too to them, you know, so hopefully they forgive me. And, um, but you know, I was like, why would I go and get involved in helping you take kids from a man that I have no idea? All I know is when I'm being told, I don't know the other side of that and I don't believe in fucking with another man's family. So. Maybe if you were active in my life and I knew things that were going on, but she had said he had threatened to shoot me. So I don't know what's true or what's not, you know? It it's I wouldn't doubt if he would threaten to shoot me. He can't beat me. You know, so but I don't want to fucking put myself in that situation. I haven't talked to you in years. I don't know what's going on and now you ask me to. Put myself in that situation. Um.

• 2:01:04Speaker 05

  Uh. But I don't remember where I was going with that, to be honest. CTE kicked. Reconnecting with your mom. Reconnected with my mom. So yeah, I went and paid their rent and everything and then. You know, naturally I talked to my mom and she thanked me. She reached out to me and thanked me.

• 2:01:20Speaker 05

  And, uh, yeah, we just kind of started slow from there, man, and it's been really good. Um, you know. This was a year ago? Yeah, the almost a year, almost hasn't been a year yet, but it's almost a year and this has probably been the longest connection that I've had with them since I was a child. Since about fifteen. Geez, man. Uh, but it's been the most rewarding too. Was it hard? Is it hard?

• 2:01:44Speaker 05

  I think what's hard, I think I know it's not hard right now. It's not hard right now. I think what what does get to me though is that my mom's older. And, uh.

• 2:01:55Speaker 05

  I lost a lot of time with her.

• 2:01:58Speaker 05

  So that kind of gets me a little bit. So I think she has a beautiful heart. I think she's got a beautiful soul and, um. She's a respectable woman is how she likes to call herself and I agree with that. And, uh, I used to hate her guts at one point and it irks my soul that I ever did. And it's because of that motherfucker, so. Uh, but luckily I'm a grown man now and I can I can, you know, defer from right and wrong, good and bad. And, uh, but yeah, he he damaged all them, I think for life. So. That's the only thing that I really think that is hard is just that I lost a lot of time with her. But this is what it is, you know, I have I have now in the present moment and that's where I think the maturity has really helped my career, right? Is being in the present moment and now, living in the now.

• 2:02:43Speaker 05

  Versus looking in the past, looking in the past, looking in the past. That shit eats you up.

• 2:02:49Speaker 05

  Do you guys have any tough conversations? All the time, yeah, all the time. We agree, we agree to disagree all the time. But that's okay. I think we developed a relationship now where it's. You can have those without. We can have those tough talks and know that we aren't gonna disappear from each other, you know? I, I'm, I'm not, I'm also not talking to her every single day. Because she understands that I have a busy life. Um, I also have people that I love and care about that I'm taking care of or, you know, trying to provide for and things like that, so, uh, yeah. Uh, but, yeah, it's, it's good, it's good now. Damn, Bill. That's tough, man. Yeah, yeah, this, this fucking guy is, uh, interesting.

• 2:03:34Speaker 05

  Interesting. I think he should be studied. I really do think he should be studied. I mean, he hides in the church now. Claims that he's a Christian. Does nothing Christian, you know, a, a, a great example is I did, uh, a little podcast for a little bit with me and my coach Sam Morpiza and, um,

• 2:03:53Speaker 05

  his best friend was Steve Hagman in The Flight Factory, which was like the pinnacle of MMA in Philadelphia. Like, we had all the killers. We had my coach Sam, we had this guy Zach Makovsky, Eddie Alvarez. Um, a lot of really good killers that came out of there and, um,

• 2:04:10Speaker 05

  the guy got cancer and he had it right, right behind his nose, like basically in the middle of his head. And, uh, because the guy came on my podcast, mind you, this was my dad's best friend for like 10 years. And then, you know, he basically disrespected his wife when my mom and him separated. One time he was sleeping over there and disrespected his wife and he, you know, Steve kicked him out and that's how they stopped being friends. My dad called him a traitor and all this and started talking shit on his wife and all that crap. Claims to be a Christian, and this, this is really funny because if you watch the documentary, tries to play, talks real soft. Talks like he's just like, "Yeah, yeah, you know, if I didn't use God as my compass, I wouldn't be here today." And it's the fakest shit I've ever fucking heard. Especially if you know the real dude that he is. And, um. You watched the documentary?

• 2:04:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I wanna know the lies he says because everybody's tagging me at, you know, he's, he hasn't talked to, let me put it this way, so, he has five kids. This is the most crazy, this is the craziest shit. He has five fucking kids. Me and four daughters. Three of those daughters have never reached out to this motherfucker since he left. Why? Is it because you were such a great guy? Is it because you didn't abuse them like you say? Is it because you, they were brainwashed by their mom? Is that your best excuse? Is that for over 12 years? I know for sure, plus it might even be 14 years. I don't remember what it is. I think it's 12 years plus. None of them give a fuck to talk to their father. Why? What could you have done that they don't give a fuck about you that much?

• 2:05:40Speaker 05

  Or they hate you that much?

• 2:05:43Speaker 05

  Dude can't answer that question, but nobody's asking him that question. You go watch the documentary, all it is is a fucking victim card.

• 2:05:50Speaker 05

  My mom this and my dad this, he hated his fucking dad, wants to kill his dad, hated his fucking mom. Apparently, and then now he's like all fucking sad that his mom passed away. And it's like, dude, like you tell so many fucking lies, you can't even keep track. And, uh, but that's my biggest question to him. How come none of your daughters give a fuck to talk to you?

• 2:06:13Speaker 05

  Why? And how come, how come? Six people can say you did the same shit that I said.

• 2:06:22Speaker 05

  Can you explain that? Like, and he just doesn't address it. But he's gonna make a documentary saying, I stole the story. I used to beat up the kid I used to live with. I stole from his dad and I'm a piece of shit. And I, I had an abusive relationship as a kid and all that. It's like, bro, you're talking about a teenager. His claim to fame is that I was a terrible fucking kid, even though I didn't steal, I didn't smoke, I didn't fucking hide things like. His biggest thing is like that I lied about my sister turning on the heater and she got her ass beat. So I was a piece of shit.

• 2:06:49Shawn Ryan?

  Six years old.

• 2:06:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, he said it showed the character that I was. I was a scumbag wanting to throw somebody else under the bus at six years old. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. It was a scumbag fucking thing. But I've learned from it. Unlike you. So, um, yeah, it's just wild. And you know, he's trying to make another documentary now and people are trying to get me to go on shows and things like that to go talk to this guy and confront him face to face. But I don't want to give him that platform.

• 2:07:15Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:16Speaker 05

  I don't want to give him that relevancy and that's all he cares about. This man has never been there for any of my success, but he has been there more than anybody for every fucking failure. Not realizing it's a lesson that I just keep growing from, but he's been there for every single failure. When I broke my elbow, he sent a picture face down, ass up, told you this would happen. Soon as you fight anybody really, you get your fucking ass beat. You're a fucking bum. You'll never make it in the UFC. I bet he fucking is rolling over in his bed now. Like even recently, you know, I I I heard something, you know, like he fucking tells people. First of all, brother, he's never coached me for one of my fights ever. He's never been to one of my fights.

• 2:07:54Speaker 05

  But he tells everybody he was, I was the best boxer because we trained for two weeks for my fourth amateur fight. And then our last stint was, he shows up in my house. I I just, it is what it is. I just slept with a chick, right? So we had a um, an agreement that we were training at seven thirty, I think it was every morning. And I had a garage at a place I was living before I wound up being homeless again and had to go live with Armin. So he would show up and he shows up at fucking seven o'clock and I'm not up yet. I just, you know, done whatever with some chick. And I fucking wake up to my phone fucking going off, going off, going off, going off. And I'm like, dude, what the fuck? Like, so I answer the phone, but I can hear like a woo woo woo woo woo, like he's in my fucking house.

• 2:08:38Speaker 05

  Just walked in the house like no invite or nothing like it's not his house. And he's like, get the fuck downstairs now. I I'm like, who the fuck are you? So I like freaked the fuck out. I'm like, who the fuck are you talking to? I'm like nineteen at this point or just about to turn nineteen. And he's standing at the bottom of the stairs like he's like gonna fuck it, whoop my ass with his arms crossed. Uh, across at the bottom of the stairs in the house that he wasn't invited in. I fucking fly down the stairs. I'm like, who the fuck you talking to? Uh, I called him all this shit. And he threatens to come back and put a bullet in my head and all this shit. And I was like, yeah, I was like, touch me, motherfucker. And I was like, I'll kill you. I swear to God. I was like, I'll beat you so fucking bad. Like you'll die on a fucking feeding tube. For all the times you hit my mom, for all the times you hit my sister. And it was the first time I ever saw like the bitch in him.

• 2:09:24Speaker 05

  Cause he realized that he wa- I wasn't chain quivering Joe no more. I wasn't little Joey Piper that he could intimidate. That he could bully, that he could fucking make his bitch and um. I think that's why he threatened me with the gun cuz he realized he couldn't fuck with me no more. And I was ready to fucking hit him at any point. Um, but the only thing I wouldn't do is I would never hit him first. And that was just because of my Christianity and because of my moral high ground that I tried to stick to. Um, and uh, yeah, he fucking drove away like a little bitch and didn't do anything. Another instance he threatened to shoot me was I was at my uh, my insurance agent guy's place. Who I've been friends with since I was seventeen and um, I just always go up there to say hi every now and then and talk and I'd already obviously been away.

• 2:10:09Speaker 05

  I'm like fucking twenty years old disappointed with a woman. Um, and she sees my black Mustang, she worked down the street, his wife. And she pulls in and asks, comes in and says, oh, I need one of my ID cards for my cars. She didn't need a fucking ID car, she saw, she saw my car and wanted to come in and fucking talk shit, so she comes in. Mind you, I haven't seen her maybe, it was only like three, four months. And by that time, like she used to be sympathetic. And be like, oh yeah, I don't know why he's so angry, I don't, I don't get it. He just gets snaps out and all this shit, she like, she like spoke super fast and fucking weird. And um, she comes in, she was like, what's up you fucking piece of shit? Like right in front of the guy. And starts like coming at me heavy and I just start smiling and I'm sitting here real, real calm.

• 2:10:54Speaker 05

  And I'm like, oh, what's the matter? I said, did he fucking finally brainwash you? And she was like, hey, you're a fucking piece of shit and you're a scumbag kid and all this like, just going off. And I'm like, and she was like, yeah, because you're a mom, this and that. I said, you know it's crazy you speak about it, but I was like, you weren't there for it. I said, all you are is just fucking vomiting all he's told you. It's like you never witnessed any of it, like it's just fucking wild. So we wind up going out in the front, what do you know, who pulls up, fucking disabled Joe, fucking pulls up. And the only thing he's mad about is where the fuck were you when I called you? You're supposed to be at work bitch, go the fuck back to work. Why aren't you where you're supposed to be? This guy don't work!

• 2:11:29Speaker 05

  So he grabs her by her fucking arm and shoes her to her car like fucking throws her to her car and tells her to go back to work. And I started laughing and I'm we're out front. Uh, because my friend was like, yo, if you guys are gonna argue, can you argue out front, whatever? And he didn't want it inside the business. And I was like, yeah, of course. I was like, I'm not even arguing. She's just fucking yelling at me. So he grabs her by her arm, shoes her there, tells her to go back to work and then, uh. He goes, I I started walking behind him and I'm like laughing because I wanted a reason to fight him. And I was like, what you so angry about, huh? I was like, what you all upset about? I was like, what's the matter? And he like, you know, I was antagonizing him and uh, he turns around and he's like, I'll come back and fucking kill you motherfucker. I'll shoot you right in your fucking face. Right in front of my guy, right in front of the insurance dude.

• 2:12:14Speaker 05

  And he fucking gets in his car and he speeds off. I was like, alright pussy. I was like, but you still haven't done shit. And he's like, yeah, you keep calling that shit. I'll fucking, he's like, I ever see you again, I'm gonna fucking kill you and whatever. So I wound up telling his wife, I said, wait till he fucking turns on you bitch. Watch and see, wait till his fucking, wait till his fucking demeanor changes and he puts his hands on you. I said, I guarantee you, you'll be the next victim. I say, cause I'm not around to get punched on no more. I was like, he's gotta have somebody. A guy like that's gotta have something to abuse. He's always had it. He's never not hit somebody. He's never not abused somebody. So. I have no idea why they got divorced, but I would love to know.

• 2:12:50Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, man.

• 2:12:51Speaker 05

  I know how he talked to her. I heard how he talked to her. And I just can't imagine with nobody else there to stop him, what else has happened? So. Yeah.

• 2:13:01Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I know there's some chatter about Dr. Phil.

• 2:13:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's some chatter about Dr. Phil and going on there, but. You know.

• 2:13:08Shawn Ryan?

  How did they get to him?

• 2:13:11Speaker 05

  So. There's a guy that goes to this gym that he trains at and his son trains there and he met this guy.

• 2:13:19Shawn Ryan?

  Who's gym? Your gym or your dad's gym or Dr. Phil's?

• 2:13:22Speaker 05

  If he came to my gym, we would all beat him to death. He's, he knows better than to do that. He'll, he's not that dumb. My coach, my, my coach, my boys are loyal at, at Marquez, uh, MMA in Philly. They're, they're, they're loyal. And, uh, he, he'd be damned if he ever even comes close to that city and steps near there. They see him, they'll kill him. Um. But uh, no, this is a gym that's um, I'm not gonna mention it cuz it doesn't deserve fucking clout. Um, but there is a gym and he goes and trains there and this guy's son trains there and this guy was on Dr. Phil. His name is Butch. Um, he was on there because of his father murdering his mother when he was a child. So that was his storyline on there. Super cool guy. Like him a lot.

• 2:14:07Speaker 05

  Uh, but he was gathering content to do the story, a story on my dad becoming Joe Pfeiffer, the person he is. And I'm not to, I don't wanna put everything out there cuz I don't know what he's comfortable with or not, but uh, basically the executive producer has reached out to me and has been trying to convince me that's a good idea to go on there. If you know, if there's some reconciliation. I said, look, at the very least, I forgive the guy. I hate the things that he's done, but I forgive the guy. I don't.

• 2:14:32Shawn Ryan?

  You really? Do you really forgive him?

• 2:14:34Speaker 05

  Hundred percent cuz I wake up and I don't think about him.

• 2:14:37Shawn Ryan?

  Good.

• 2:14:37Speaker 05

  He has no control over my life, you know? Like he could sit across from me like this and I have, there's no intimidation. There's no, there's no threat. Um, the only threat is if he had a gun and that's it, you know, but I carry two, so. And uh, hopefully it never, ever happens, you know? And I don't think it's funny to gamble about life, but uh.

• 2:14:57Shawn Ryan?

  And there's gotta be a sense of being extremely uneasy after having been through that.

• 2:15:02Speaker 05

  Nah, nah. I, I think that would mean that I haven't forgiven him still. There's nothing uneasy about it. What could he say? I stand on the truth. I stand on the truth. I'm on a mountain of truth. I have sources to back up my truth. I have witnesses to back up my truth. I have friends to back up my truth. I have teammates that have seen what he's done or how he's talked or how he's acted. He has nobody. He literally is going to die alone. It's fucked up. It's sad. And I really want him to change. And the only reason I was even contemplating it is because my mom wanted me to do it. She wants him to leave me alone, but he just fucking attaches everything. I'm, I don't, I can't see any of his social media.

• 2:15:43Speaker 05

  Pretty sure he hasn't been blocked or whatever, but you know, I know he's always, people are always telling me he's talking shit on me, he's writing essays, he'll post pictures. So like one of the things that he does, he'll show pictures in the documentary of him and him smiling. So what he does is he takes a child's unconditional love for his parent of constant forgiveness. And shows all the good memories and says, does that look like a kid that's abused? Does that look like a kid that's abused? Oh, look, he's smiling there. Oh, look, he's smiling here. Well, no shit. Do you ever beat the fuck out of your kid and then tell him to fucking smile for the camera? I don't think anybody does that. So it's, uh, he, he's, his logic is very fucking shallow and really dumb. So it, it doesn't threaten me whatsoever. You know?

• 2:16:26Speaker 05

  I think he's just a sick dude. I think the, the narcotics for 20 plus years has really warped his fucking brain. I don't really know if he has sympathy or remorse. I think that part of his brain is probably damaged. So he might be on the borderline of psychopath or is a psychopath. He's for sure a narcissist. Um, he's always talked about himself, like the God complex, like he's always had something everybody wants. And he's destroyed every single, this is how I have to look at it. Before I'm in the UFC, I've had lifelong friendships. And I still have those same lifelong friendships today. This man has no fucking friends, no.

• 2:17:05Speaker 05

  Like, bro, you, you, you went from a family of five and a wife that loved you and cared and kids that loved you unconditionally to damaging them all to where they hate your guts, like. I just don't want to carry around hate for the guy. I just recognize who he is. I used to, bro, I used to fight out of anger all the time. When I was fighting early in my career, I would just blitz motherfuckers and just fucking try to kill them. Like I was literally like, and I still have that side of me. But I know how to control it a lot better where it doesn't involve him. You know, I just want to kill a motherfucker because you're trying to take my, my, my money from me. But before it was like, I really wanted to like hurt people and, um. Even in my everyday to day life, like road rage, things like that, wanting to fight people and. You know, I definitely saved myself from a couple of big damaging blows where I could have been in prison.

• 2:17:49Speaker 05

  And um, I'm glad I have, you know, but that's because of the strong men that taught me how to be men. He always claims that the only reason I am what I am is because of him. And I think it's such an insult because people like Will Harmon, who put their neck on the line, who put their, you know, opened their door to me, opened their home, Sam Orpiza, the guy was working two jobs, sleeping on floor in between his fucking jobs to provide for his family. And people like Chandler Henry, you know, who were able to, in the documentary, you know, I can express myself now verbally, but I, he has a way with, you know, filming where he is able to express what I couldn't put into words. And I think that's his talent and I think that's why this is doing, going to do so well.

• 2:18:31Speaker 05

  And, and help a lot of kids, so um, you know, but because of those men in my life, that's why I'm where I'm at. Because I was smart, I asked questions. I never was somebody that didn't ask questions. I always challenged everything, asked questions, asked questions. I don't give a fuck if you laugh, if it gets a stupid question, if I don't know it, I will say I don't know it. Because once I learn it, I'm not gonna forget it, so.

• 2:18:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, dude's fucking there and just waiting for me to fail at every moment, brother.

• 2:18:59Shawn Ryan?

  Do you want to reconcile with him?

• 2:19:02Speaker 05

  No.

• 2:19:03Shawn Ryan?

  No?

• 2:19:03Speaker 05

  There's nothing to reconcile. I know what he is, I know what he's done. I want him to take accountability. So that's reconciliation for me.

• 2:19:12Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:19:12Speaker 05

  Take some fucking accountability and don't die a piece of shit. You owe that to my mother. You owe that to my sisters. Because you fucked up their future too. And they're still going through it. Luckily, I'm not. But they're still going through it. And um.

• 2:19:29Shawn Ryan?

  How do you think you, I mean, I think, I think downstairs before the interview, you said you've been, you have a significant other.

• 2:19:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:19:38Shawn Ryan?

  Been with her for three years?

• 2:19:39Speaker 05

  Uh, almost six.

• 2:19:40Shawn Ryan?

  Almost six years? Sounds like your sisters don't have healthy relationships.

• 2:19:46Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 2:19:47Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know about your mom now, does she have any healthy relationships?

• 2:19:50Speaker 05

  Uh, she's got a couple of healthy friendships, but no significant other.

• 2:19:54Shawn Ryan?

  How have you learned how to treat a significant other, a significant other respectfully and with honor and?

• 2:20:01Speaker 05

  Um.

• 2:20:03Speaker 05

  People like Will Harmon. Seeing how he loves his wife. Uh, now he has kids that he loves. He's got three now. And he has one special needs daughter with Prader-Willis syndrome. And loves her unconditionally and provides for her better than anybody else could. And the irony of it is that he was a special needs teacher when I was in high school for over eight years. And then his first daughter is special needs.

• 2:20:26Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:20:27Speaker 05

  So who better equipped to take care of it? You know, nobody ever wishes for that. But who better could handle that than him? Um, so it's kind of crazy, but yeah, you know, just. Understanding right and wrong is super simple. Super simple. Hating your wife is wrong.

• 2:20:47Speaker 05

  You know, uh. It's, it's really easy not to do. Um, you love the person, you would never want to do that.

• 2:20:54Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:20:54Speaker 05

  Um, but you know, it is a struggle because I disconnect very often. You know, we've had our struggles in our relationship and separations and things like that. But one thing I will say, um, because I, like I said, I don't really put my personal life out there or the status of whether I'm single or dating or anything like that, uh, just because I don't want people involved in my shit. Um, but. That specific person, no matter how it makes anybody feel, was there for me. Um.

• 2:21:23Speaker 05

  When I was a loser. She was there when my arm broke. She was there after my arm broke. She was there when I got in the UFC. She's probably one of the most special people in my life. Um. You know, uh, she always believed I could do it.

• 2:21:38Shawn Ryan?

  Probably one of the most special people in your life?

• 2:21:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, aside from Harmon. Aside from Harmon. He get, he, he, he gets, he gets first place. You know, he's, I, I think because he saved my life. Uh, but yeah, uh. It's him and her. We'll, we'll call him a tie.

• 2:21:55Shawn Ryan?

  Right on.

• 2:21:56Speaker 05

  You know, and, um. Yeah, I used to look at her when my elbow was broke because they told me I would never fight again. And I used to be like, I'm gonna make it. And she'd well up and I'd well up and I was like, I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna change our lives. I'm gonna change our lives. I'm gonna change our lives. And man, damn, if I didn't fucking get it back and do it. So, and I'm still going.

• 2:22:17Shawn Ryan?

  You've done it.

• 2:22:18Speaker 05

  I'm still going. So, it was a hard fucking road, you know. We've been talking about all my family shit, but the fighting road was a whole nother fucking fight that had nothing to do with that guy, nothing to do with my past. And that was a fucking struggle in itself, you know. Aside from my upbringing, I had one of the fucking hardest roads to get in the UFC as well.

• 2:22:35Shawn Ryan?

  Well, we're gonna get into that near next. But before we leave this segment, just wanna ask, what advice do you have for kids that are going through this kinda stuff right now?

• 2:22:44Speaker 05

  Speak up. Speak up. Talk to somebody. If you don't know who to talk to, find somebody. Get an opinion, you know. Gather information is the best thing you can do. Like, since I've been out here dealing with everybody from, you know, the Daily Wire, which is what the documentary is gonna be on July 25th and whatnot, I've gotten all their opinions on the whole Dr. Phil thing too, you know. Because I like Dr. Phil. I think it's, you know, it's cool or whatever, but I'm, I'm, it's gotta make sense. And it doesn't really make sense to give this guy what he's always wanted, which is to be relevant, you know.

• 2:23:19Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:20Speaker 05

  He's nobody without me. That's how I see it. And, but yeah, speak up. Put your fucking pent up energy into a sport. If you're a sports guy, or, or, or a girl, or whatever, you know, if you're, if you're a books person, fucking study more than anybody else. Educate yourself more than anybody else. Whatever you put that time into, it will pay you back. It will, hard work doesn't go unnoticed, when, when you have to put it to the test. You know, sometimes it goes unnoticed because nobody sees you doing it. But when you start to perform, and you've done all the hard work, there, there's no denying success from that. So, put that, put that anger and energy into a sport is the only thing I can relate to.

• 2:24:02Speaker 05

  And no matter how crazy an idea, within reason, I'm not talking about these fucking fruitcakes in the world today, but as long as you, you know, you have that self-belief that you can go on and be something fucking big, who, why can't you? Why can't you?

• 2:24:18Shawn Ryan?

  Good advice, man.

• 2:24:19Speaker 05

  Why can't you? I'm, I'm a fucking nobody. All, all generations of my family have been fucking bums. I don't even say that my grandfather's been a bum, that's not fair to say, but when I say my father's a straight fucking loser, dude hasn't taken a fucking ounce of risk for his family or tried to better his life as a person or as a man, as a man at all. It's a shame. I'm 28 years old and I know more than that dude does. He's fucking 54. 53, you know?

• 2:24:45Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 2:24:45Speaker 05

  Take the risk. Take the risk. Be willing to fail. Cause failure's only a fucking, hey, I took a shot and I missed. But you might learn how to do better next time, so take 100% of those fucking shots, no matter how crazy they are is my advice.

• 2:24:59Shawn Ryan?

  Love that.

• 2:24:59Speaker 05

  Go for it.

• 2:25:00Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. Let's take a break.

• 2:25:05Speaker 00

  Mr. President, my company informed me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 2:25:15Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 2:25:21Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze it, that's what.

• 2:25:26Speaker 01

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 2:25:29Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 2:25:30Speaker 01

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17.9 minutes without parent.

• 2:25:47Shawn Ryan?

  Alright Joe, we're back from the break. We're moving on from the family stuff, but I did, I wanted to ask one more thing.

• 2:25:53Speaker 05

  And?

• 2:25:54Shawn Ryan?

  This actually comes from a guy that's on my team who's got, believe it or not, a very similar upbringing to you and uh, I'm just so fucking proud of him because he has changed his, his, his lineage and, and his, he's gotten away from that generational curse. And uh, he's been with me since he was 17 years old and uh, still with me today, he's, I think he's 26, but um, but he wanted, he, this question is from him and uh, and so I told you at the beginning, like this is gonna touch a lot of people who've been in, in similar situations as you and, and what he wanted me to ask you is, is you, is you

• 2:26:39Shawn Ryan?

  start to amass the success that you're seeing and, and getting in the UFC and making a name for yourself and how do you combat the?

• 2:26:50Shawn Ryan?

  The voices in your head, the self sabotage from all the shit that you went through with your dad and your family and and you'll never amount to nothing, hoping you would die, I'll fucking kill you.

• 2:27:03Shawn Ryan?

  How do you keep those voices from entering your head or what do you do when they do?

• 2:27:08Speaker 05

  I don't think you'll ever stop them from coming into your head, especially if you've had trauma. Um, or anything abusive in your childhood that you know that is stuck with you for years. It's always going to be there, you know? I think it's natural for humans to doubt themselves. Um, it's our protective mechanisms. When you go to do something scary, your brain tries to stop you from doing it because it knows the risk, the damage, the hurt. Um, but I think it's being in the present moment. I think that is the master key to everything and Sean Brady, my teammate, who's also, you know, get on his title run. He's a top two guy. He's number two at welterweight.

• 2:27:46Speaker 05

  You know, he had a lot of performance anxiety in his career and he turned it around and you know, I used to pick his brain too. This is where it comes back to what I said about asking questions because I still had the doubts. If I lacked anything, I lacked, I'm a very confident guy. There's not a guy you could put in a room that I don't think I could knock out. I think I have that chance against anybody, big, small, doesn't matter.

• 2:28:07Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I think you've proven that.

• 2:28:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, except Calvin, that guy's tough. Um, but I still dropped him. But yeah, so, uh, he, uh, you know, I asked him like, man, like, what do you, what do you think you did to change? He was like, just being where my feet are, being in my present moment, you know, he went and got help and sports, uh, sports therapy and all those things. But I'm not really big on like therapists. I'd like to just kind of figure it out. Um, or ask questions of people that I trust and things like that versus somebody I don't really trust and pay money to. I just, I don't connect with people like that. But you know, he was like being where my present, in being in the present moment, like, and just appreciating where you are. You know, no matter what was done to me, it's what's shaped me to be the human that I am.

• 2:28:50Speaker 05

  I think a part of anxiety comes from obviously doubt, um, and the things that can go wrong, but.

• 2:28:58Speaker 05

  If all I worry about is my effort and controlling that effort, and my confidence and my preparation and my confidence and my education on things that I want to learn about and things like that, like I can't fail. I can't fail. Like, I'm not defined by win or loss in the UFC. Even if I got cut from the UFC, that's not, it's not my identity anymore. It's me going out there and taking the risk and giving it all that I have that I can judge. And that's, that's who I am. I go out there and I put it on the line every time. And I try to look for the finish every time. Or I try to apply myself to be a better person in my everyday life because that's, that's the person you have to go to sleep with. That's the person you have to wake up to. That's the person you get your, your work ethic from.

• 2:29:40Speaker 05

  So I would just say it's being in the present moment and realizing that your past doesn't define you. Fighting doesn't define you and how you treat the people you love is true success. The friendships that you have is true success. It's not monetary. It's not, it's not money. It's not cars. I love cars, but it's not cars. It's not the fucking big house. It's not the jewelry. It's not the watches. It's not the chains. It's not the fame. It's how you treat the people that you love most in your life. That's how you're gonna be based. That's how you're gonna fucking keep a sound mind. And, um, yeah, so no, I don't think anything in the past has like affected me anymore. It used to, you know, I used to be like, oh, if I lose, this motherfucker's gonna laugh at me. Or everybody's gonna think I suck and all this shit.

• 2:30:24Speaker 05

  And no, I've had my struggles when I lost my first UFC fight. I walked into the fight. I wasn't a hundred percent, whatever. I lost. I wasn't the better man that night. And everybody turned on me. It was the first time I got famous pretty quick in the fight world. I got a lot of hype behind me and then I lost. And then everybody was like, you fucking suck. You're a fraud. You're a bum. You lost my fucking bet and all this shit. Kill yourself. You're this or you're that. So it still continues. Now it's not my father saying it, but it's people. But these fucking people are unhappy in their life. Imagine taking time to go and fucking shit talking a professional athlete you've never met.

• 2:30:58Shawn Ryan?

  Oh.

• 2:30:59Speaker 05

  It's wild.

• 2:30:59Shawn Ryan?

  Relate to you all day on this.

• 2:31:01Speaker 05

  Of course, of course. You could do, you could touch a hundred thousand fucking lives and, and save a hundred thousand people. But if you piss one fucking person off and they don't like it, oh, you're a piece of shit to them.

• 2:31:10Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:11Speaker 05

  Who cares? So live your life by the standards of the people that, by the standards of the people that you keep in your circle is what I would say. And um, I think that's helped me, you know, not let the negative thoughts get in my way. And if they come in my, my brain, I've been reading this book called Inner Excellence. I think for athletes, it's a must read. Uh, Sam Morpize um, is always influencing me to read books. I hate reading books, but I'm not a big book reader, a little too retaliated for it, but I still do it. And um, you know, uh, yeah, I, I, it's been a great, it, it's the ego. It's the ego. Um, a lot of our fears are ego driven.

• 2:31:51Speaker 05

  So uh, it's been the most humbling fucking annoying thing to try and digest because your ego gets in the way of everything. It influences everything. Like why you're insecure about something? Well, because you're afraid to fucking lose in front of thousands of people or millions of people on the TV. And it's like, bro, you gotta let go of all that. You can't control all that. The only thing I can control is my performance. Did you work hard for this moment? Yes, I fucking turned over every stone I could. I had to go out there and give it your best effort. Might be a win on the other side, might be a loss, but whatever it is, you're fucking ready for it.

• 2:32:22Shawn Ryan?

  Man, it is astounding that you've figured this out, but age 28 years old.

• 2:32:28Speaker 05

  Cause I got real fucking men in my life. Now imagine if my father fucking had been a real man.

• 2:32:33Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:34Speaker 05

  May- maybe I would have fucking got it. Maybe I wouldn't have, but I think this is my story to tell. This is my platform to tell it. And um, you know, thanks to guys like you, I get to do it.

• 2:32:44Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about, so let's start moving into Will. I know he was, what was his last name?

• 2:32:51Speaker 05

  Harmon, Will Harmon.

• 2:32:52Shawn Ryan?

  Will Harmon. You had mentioned earlier that he had put his job on the line for you. How did he do that?

• 2:32:58Speaker 05

  I mean, he was picking me up, you know, not that that's against the rules, but um, he was trying to take me in his house before I had gone ho- homeless, but he couldn't do it because the student teacher thing, can't do it. Um, or he would have. Um, but you know, he didn't consult with anybody even after, you know, I graduated and opened up his home and I think he put his job on the line just by simply fucking protecting my story. Um, and the things that I was going through and, and keeping that close to heart. And I'm sure he had conversations about it in some way, but I know he got a lot of people off my back, you know? He stopped me from getting suspended from school a bunch of times for slamming kids into shit or, uh, one kid was saying some homophobic slurs and I said some shit back and

• 2:33:44Speaker 05

  threatened him and didn't get suspended. So he was always putting his neck out there for me. I broke doors in high school and fucking did a lot of stupid shit out of anger and he always was just there cleaning up my trail. So I didn't get in trouble. So, you know, necessarily not anything to get fired over at all, but um, you know, just even those small things went a long way. Like I lost my senior night and I fucking broke one of the bill code doors, like big ass door, fucking kicked it right off the hinges and broke it. He came in the next morning before anybody knew and fucking fixed it.

• 2:34:11Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:34:12Speaker 05

  And, uh, I slammed a kid into, you know, the glass and busted his face and he went on, and I should have got suspended. And he stood behind me saying, yeah, it's like, you know, I know what was being said and this is what's going on in his life. And, you know, it really went to bat for me and I couldn't really afford, like if I had gotten, I probably would just dropped out of school. So he kept me going to school. Um, I didn't have good grades and all I wanted to come to school with was to see him, play chess with him, eat lunch with him and wrestle. So my man was there.

• 2:34:44Shawn Ryan?

  What, what, I mean, what was it like for you? So you didn't move in with him until eighteen?

• 2:34:49Speaker 05

  I was nineteen.

• 2:34:50Shawn Ryan?

  Nineteen?

• 2:34:50Speaker 05

  Nineteen. Yeah, I lived, so I moved in with a friend at the time.

• 2:34:56Speaker 05

  Who was not a real friend. Um, and he moved in with his girlfriend and I moved in with my first girlfriend at the time and we were both in very, very toxic relationships and uh.

• 2:35:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't give a fuck to say it because it is what it is, but when I was working sixty hours a week, the dude was fucking around with my girl while he was engaged to his girl. And I didn't find out until six months after I'd already broke up with her and then, you know, we couldn't afford to stay where we were staying and. I got my car repossessed, my phone got shut off, my insurance got shut off and Harmon took me in and um. The worst part about it is my teammate.

• 2:35:34Speaker 05

  One of my teammates at a former team that I was at fucked the girl. Of my friend, so it was like a, a big fuckfest. Holy shit. Between everybody but me and uh. Yeah, that is what eventually led them to break up, which means we couldn't afford to stay where we were and then I found out that and then I was like, man, I'm gonna kill this motherfucker too and. You know, I told Harmon about it and he was like, you gotta come with, you gotta come live with me. He's like, I just bought this house. He just bought the house. It was perfect timing and he was like, I got an extra room for you and um. My car got taken away. It was one of the most humiliating feelings. And um. You know, he taught me a very good lesson. It was like probably the first lesson he gave me under his roof as to what it is to be a man of your word.

• 2:36:18Speaker 05

  And he gave me the money to get my car out of repossession and pay it off. And he said, I'm giving you this money not because I expect you to pay it back, but if you tell me you're gonna pay it back, that's your word. If you don't. I'll still be friends with you and I'll still love you and support you. But I might look at you differently. And uh, that was right before my pro debut. I moved in with him. Um, I paid him back over two fights, but I moved in with him right after my fourth amateur fight. So then I had one more amateur fight and then went pro and I paid him back by that fight cash and uh. It was one of the best feelings in the world and um. Yeah, I finally had a stable home. I finally had good food.

• 2:37:02Speaker 05

  I finally had heat, finally had my own bathroom. Yeah, it was, it was special.

• 2:37:10Shawn Ryan?

  What was that like for you going, I mean, you went nineteen years in the same environment, same type of environments, different abuses, different experiences, but none of them a loving, traditional, family dynamic. And so then you get inserted into Will's home with his kids, with his wife, with him. I mean,

• 2:37:34Speaker 05

  It was just me, him and his wife.

• 2:37:35Shawn Ryan?

  Something that you'd never, it was just you and him?

• 2:37:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, just me, him and his wife before they had kids.

• 2:37:40Shawn Ryan?

  This was before they have kids?

• 2:37:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:37:41Shawn Ryan?

  So what was it like for you

• 2:37:45Shawn Ryan?

  to experience real love in a real home?

• 2:37:51Speaker 05

  I developed this mentality that things were too good to be true. So every time I thought something good was happening, it was going to happen, I knew I like expected it not to happen. Like even something as simple as like going to a fucking water park as a kid, like nah, it's too good to be true. When it's not gonna fucking happen, because it didn't. Every, every, every good thing that we looked forward to as kids, including my sisters, we all expected it not to happen. It would just get shot down. We never got to enjoy it. And uh, so it was very uncomfortable for me for a long time. And then when I moved in there, it was like I had this overwhelming peace of like, I can fucking heal. Like I can rest. Like I can go to sleep and not worry about someone kicking my door in. Like one of, one of the triggers I used to have was somebody knocking

• 2:38:33Speaker 05

  on my door. Cause there used to be a slit in my room at my old house and there were, it was an old farmhouse. So everything was like slanted and lopsided and shit and like beat up. And I had a little slit in the door from him fucking kicking my door in all the time. So he would, I just remember seeing his fucking eyeballs look in to see if I was in my room when he would punish me or to see if I was like asleep or something. I would fake sleep every time. And I remember one of the most traumatic fucking things is hearing that motherfucker walk up the stairs. Cause I used to creak. I'd hear the fucking creak and I would jump in bed and then fucking try to hold my breath. So he didn't think I was awake and he wouldn't bother me. And I remember fucking, I had a like a mesh, a mesh blanket. And I remember seeing his fucking eyeballs. It was like I was in

• 2:39:15Speaker 05

  prison, bro. The dude was fucking, like I'd be like real quiet. He always did like traumatic, like, like not traumatic, but startling shit. Like kick the fucking door and scare the fuck out of me and then trash all my toys and then fucking leave and laugh. And so it was like, I always, I always like, Or he would kick the fucking door and I didn't even know why and I'd start beating the fuck out of me for something I apparently did fucking wrong. Whether it was getting in an argument with my sisters or maybe a fucking fistfight earlier. Me and my older sister used to fucking fight all the time. But my rule was I wasn't allowed to fucking hit her back, so I used to hate her. She'd fuck me up all the time. And uh, till I got older. But uh, but yeah, um. So one of my triggers was like somebody knocking on the fucking door. I didn't have to deal with that.

• 2:40:00Speaker 05

  He did it a couple of times and I would like freak the fuck out. It was like a PTSD fucking thing. Like I hated it. It like made me angry as fuck. I don't know why. I was like ready to fucking fight people over it, but I didn't have to deal with danger anymore. I was able to be in a house where I could have food. I didn't, I do, we used to get yelled at, all those kids for even opening the door for more than like fifteen seconds in the fridge. Get the fuck out of the fridge. Like you were afraid to fucking eat.

• 2:40:24Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, man.

• 2:40:25Speaker 05

  Or you were told you couldn't eat. You know, because we only had so much food and it would fucking go so fast. You know, our household is seven and uh, so yeah, it was like, you know, I didn't have to worry about how much food I ate. He used to make fun of me for how fast I ate because I would like scarf down food. And uh, cause we always had a lack of food. Um, but uh. Yeah, it was the first real like peaceful moment in my life that I had.

• 2:40:49Shawn Ryan?

  Was there an adjustment period?

• 2:40:51Speaker 05

  Definitely, definitely. Like, you know what I mean? It just, it didn't feel real. It felt like it was only gonna last so long. And then, you know, probably after like the first year, I was like, man. Like this is fucking awesome. This is amazing. And um, yeah, I'll never, I'll never not be thankful for that, man.

• 2:41:06Shawn Ryan?

  Do you still train with him?

• 2:41:08Speaker 05

  Nah, he, he's old, man. He's forty. He claims he's old. He's not old. He's, he's on, he's on a different goal in life. He's out there trying to run five miles in thirty minutes. Um, that's one of his goals. And uh, yeah, he, he's a little banged up from wrestling. Plus I whip his ass now. It's not even fair.

• 2:41:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, we used to be competitive. Yeah, I, I still would, he would still would catch me in high school, but I could beat him. But now it's like, yeah, I'm a lot bigger and.

• 2:41:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, so he don't, old man don't want that ass whipping no more. But I've been trying to get him back into lifting and everything, but you know, he's got three kids now. One daughter has special needs and you know, he's got a wife and everything. This is really hard for him to take the time to, you know, really go out and train. But he was only ever a wrestler anyway.

• 2:41:54Shawn Ryan?

  You guys still see each other a lot?

• 2:41:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, pretty often. Um, you know, there's some times where we go on lulls and I don't get to see him that often. We don't talk that much, but you know, we still, I got him out to the last fight because it was in our home, like in our state. And, um, you know, anytime I get to talk about him, I do. And, uh, you know, we still hang out and still see each other and I hope to do that till the day he passes away and I pass away.

• 2:42:17Shawn Ryan?

  I hope that happens.

• 2:42:18Speaker 05

  That's a friend for life for me, man. So I'll never forget everything that he's done. And, uh, I'll always cherish our lunchtime periods, playing chess, splitting the sandwich that his wife would make. I've never seen somebody put so much meat on a sandwich, but it was banging, man. It was banging. I used to think that that was like the most like, man, how do you afford this? Like, that's how broke I was.

• 2:42:38Shawn Ryan?

  Man.

• 2:42:39Speaker 05

  Uh, man. So yeah, no, Harmon is, uh, a godsend to my life and for sure saved my life from very, very, very dark times. And, you know, he literally looked at me when he took me and he said, I believe you can make it. And he's like, and I want to see how far you can go and I want to see what you're made of. And, uh, you can live here for free, but if this is what you really want to do, I want to see you chase it. That's all I did, bro. Eat, sleep, train. Just kept going. And that's why when I lost my first contender, that's why I felt like a fucking loser. Cause when they told me it was over, I was like, I lied to everybody.

• 2:43:15Speaker 05

  Little did I know.

• 2:43:16Shawn Ryan?

  Well, let's move, let's move into, so I mean,

• 2:43:21Shawn Ryan?

  nineteen, you're living with him, you had already gone pro?

• 2:43:25Speaker 05

  No, so I turned pro, um, by the time I was 21, I had five amateur fights, uh, 21 or 22.

• 2:43:32Shawn Ryan?

  When did you start fighting amateur?

• 2:43:34Speaker 05

  2017, uh, 2017.

• 2:43:37Shawn Ryan?

  How old were you then?

• 2:43:39Speaker 05

  Nineteen?

• 2:43:40Shawn Ryan?

  Nineteen?

• 2:43:41Speaker 05

  So I had already had fights by the time I moved with him. I had four fights by the time I moved with him. And then I did my last amateur fight with him and then my pro debut. So I think it was nineteen, nineteen or twenty. Uh, whatever I was, what I'm twenty-eight now.

• 2:43:51Shawn Ryan?

  Full MMA fight?

• 2:43:53Speaker 05

  Full MMA.

• 2:43:53Shawn Ryan?

  How old were you with the first one?

• 2:43:55Speaker 05

  Nineteen, yeah. Nineteen, yeah, cuz I was still getting escorted. I was either nineteen or just turned twenty cuz I still got an escort across the casino floor.

• 2:44:04Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 2:44:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, and Harmon was the escort.

• 2:44:06Shawn Ryan?

  How did that, I mean, how did that come about? How do you transition from wrestling, jiu-jitsu into?

• 2:44:11Speaker 05

  So I always had this dream though. I always had this dream. I, you know, I, I always wanted to fight. I always wanted to fucking be in the UFC. I always, I always envisioned people chanting my name. And twenty thousand fans and me walking out and, uh, in the UFC. It was never anything else. It wasn't Bellator, it wasn't one championship. It was always UFC, UFC, UFC. And, uh, I was working fucking sixty hours a week in a deadbeat job for Verizon, fucking wireless phone sales that I fucking hated. I hated everybody I worked with. I fucking.

• 2:44:40Shawn Ryan?

  I cannot see you selling cell phone plans.

• 2:44:43Speaker 05

  Everybody laughed, yeah. It was fucking terrible. I hated that fucking job. Um, fucking dookie, bro. Oh, man. I didn't sell shit. Um, so yeah, I was working sixty hours a week and I wound up just taking a fight just to take it and I.

• 2:44:59Shawn Ryan?

  Who approached you? I mean, how'd you even, how did you get in there?

• 2:45:03Speaker 05

  Um, I, I told Sam Warpiza, who wound up becoming my coach. He wasn't my coach for my first four. Um, sorry, he wasn't my coach for my first three amateur fights. I was at a school called Balance Studios with a guy named Rick Miguel Reese, who's a long time black belt. Was there at my first competition when I was five years old. Like dude's known me for years, loved him to death. Great inspiration, like fucking solid fucking dude. Um, so I was a part of that team for a while. After Fight Factory went away, he closed the gym, Steve Head closed the gym. I joined Balance Studios and, so I was working sixty hours a week and I had one of my teammates Basil, um, and I had Rick Miguel Reese as my corner, but I had reached out to Sam about wanting to fight and he got me my first fight with,

• 2:45:45Speaker 05

  uh, organization called XCC at the time and, um, real scumbag promoter.

• 2:45:53Speaker 05

  I'm not gonna mention her name. She fucking flipped me off right before my last fight, fucking bitch.

• 2:46:00Speaker 05

  Funny story. Nobody talks shit on you woman, but uh, so yeah, she uh, I got a fight. And I fought this guy. I was one hundred and seventy-eight pounds fighting at one eighty-five. Didn't lift, had my own schedule, didn't do shit, barely was training. But trained like once every fucking, once a Sunday was sparring and just went and took a fight, knocked the guy out in fucking seventeen seconds, flatlined.

• 2:46:22Shawn Ryan?

  Seventeen seconds?

• 2:46:23Speaker 05

  Seventeen seconds, threw a fucking inside kick, hit him with a cross right hand, put him out face down. Uh, they took him out in a stretcher, oxygen tank, and he had uh, like, like brain hemorrhaging. I don't know if that's brain bleeding or something, but he was never cleared or allowed to fight again ever since. So I felt terrible about that. I actually saw his coach last year for the first time. And uh, he was like, yeah, you know, he never was allowed to fight after that. He's the one that told me. And I was like, damn, bro, that fucking sucks, like. Tell him I'm sorry, like, but uh, yeah, I smoked that dude. Immediately had another fight, was training for, this is why I said this woman is a scumbag. Was training for my next fight, was going through that toxic relationship with that first girlfriend still. Living in that environment, you know, like I told you about all the shit that had happened there.

• 2:47:08Speaker 05

  And she basically would fucking break up with me and then go to a college party and fuck dudes. And fucking, I was like fucking gutted. I was one of them dumb kids that didn't have any confidence in the love world, didn't know how to navigate it, didn't know it wasn't love, you know? Two broken kids against the world type thing, like I had said, and fucking, I was heartbroken, so I wasn't eating, I wasn't sleeping. I got down to like one sixty-eight. And I had to force drink myself to get up to one seventy-four.

• 2:47:34Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:47:35Speaker 05

  And I still fought. And this is where I don't like the woman is that she had known I was gonna fight a collegiate wrestler the entire time. So I was training for a boxing guy. And then she switched it the day before and says, oh yeah, your opponent pulled out. But we have somebody else for you. I asked the kid, the kid's like, yeah, I had a little training camp. So anyway, I fought this kid, he was much bigger than me, whatever. I rocked him, he just fucking wrestled fuck to me for like three rounds. And I wasn't upset about it. And I was like, what the fuck? Like, this is what I want to do, but I'm not upset about it? And I was like, I can't have a half foot in, half foot out. So I fought one more fight after that. So I'm one and one, I go fight again, I choke a dude out, smoke him in the first round.

• 2:48:20Speaker 05

  And uh, and then I was like, you know what? This just isn't fulfilling. I feel like I'm fucking off. And I was like, I can't have one foot in, one foot out. I'm gonna quit my job. And at that time, I'd already quit my job at Verizon. I worked at Honda, Piazza Honda for a little bit as a salesman. Got fucking bent over with that job. Didn't get any fucking sales.

• 2:48:41Shawn Ryan?

  Fuck, I'm sorry. No, it is funny, bro. Strike me as a salesman. This reminds me of like my first job after the SEAL Teams. I became a real estate agent for like two weeks.

• 2:48:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, and you realize you're like, dude, this shit sucks. So I was like, man, fuck that. So then I worked even better. It gets better. I worked at fucking LA Fitness for a little while.

• 2:49:01Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 2:49:01Speaker 05

  So gym memberships and then this fucking turd of a manager I had was changing the last names of the people that I would schedule to come in to buy memberships or, you know, join the gym and was taking my commissions. So I remember I worked like sixty seven hours one week. And I got like a four hundred and fifty three dollar paycheck. And I was like, you fucking bitch. Like, I hate your guts. And uh, I was like, what am I doing? I was like, I'd rather be broke than fucking work this much to just have that little bit of money. And I hadn't had any sponsorships yet and fighting or anything like that. And I was begging Sam Morpison to coach me and um, he put me through the fucking wringer, man. Um, so I wound up quitting my job.

• 2:49:43Speaker 05

  And I went in and I gave her the finger and fucking threw shit off her desk. And I said, you're a fucking scumbag for stealing from a kid. And I gave it a finger and laughed. She tried to tell me she was gonna call the cops. I was like, call him, bitch, you fat fuck. Like, I was fucking, I like said a lot of fucked up shit to her. But I quit. And then I just pursued fighting full time, man. And I always knew I could have done so much more because I would go in and train with guys that were training full time and do, hold my own and do better than hold my own. And I was like, man, these guys train every day and they're bigger than me. They got trans conditioning. They have money for supplements. And I'm still fucking them up. So I finally got serious, man. And I was like, this is it. Plan A or nothing. And um, That's when my car got repossessed, all those things. So then I fought another fight against this guy I had real beef with.

• 2:50:29Speaker 05

  It's a hilarious fucking thing. He was like talking shit. He was gonna be eat McDonald's and knock me the fuck out. He said he was gonna knock it, put his nuts on my face if he knocked me out, all this shit. Mind you, this guy's like thirty-four, I'm twenty. So I was like, alright bitch, like, you know, it was the first time that I sold tickets. I was in the negative every time I sold tickets before that. I didn't sell shit. Nobody wanted to see me fight, nobody gave a fuck. This one I sold a hundred and fifty tickets as an amateur, which was huge back then. And um, I actually made a couple hundred bucks. And um, I knocked him the fuck out. I dropped him on a jab, I was screaming, I was like, get up motherfucker, I was like, come take my name, talk all that shit, I was like, get up motherfucker, like, I wanted to, I tried to kill this guy.

• 2:51:09Speaker 05

  So I fucking sent him to the shadow realm, knocked him the fuck out and uh, knocked him out bad. Like, he, he was at a pool of blood, like, split his fucking mouth open. Um, And put him out one shot and uh, that's when my career really started taking off. That's when people were like, yo, this kid's got something.

• 2:51:23Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, you're known for knocking people out.

• 2:51:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:51:26Shawn Ryan?

  Fast.

• 2:51:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:51:28Shawn Ryan?

  How do you do it? I've been a lot of bar fights.

• 2:51:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:51:31Shawn Ryan?

  Never dropped somebody.

• 2:51:32Speaker 05

  That's crazy.

• 2:51:33Shawn Ryan?

  Hey, I, I hit. Doesn't connect, buddy.

• 2:51:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think. Well, that's part of the problem. You gotta connect to be able to put somebody out. Um, yeah, I think, uh, I just think, you know, this is where I credit my father. I got to start so young, so my understanding is better than someone who just started. Um, I understand rotation, rotating my hips and landing at one time and having speed, you know, it's not all about just power, but it's speed, it's timing, it's, it's the perfect. It's the perfect shot. When you land that perfect shot, you'll feel a whip right through your body. You'll feel like a, it's almost like a snap, like boom, like a whip crack. And you'll feel it. It's like a, It's like a wave, it like travels up, you'll see like the whip in your muscle. If you watch some of my fights after this and you see like some of the shots that I hit people with, you'll see it like riffle all the way through my tricep, like it'll get like a jiggle, like boom. And it's um,

• 2:52:21Speaker 05

  So I think that's part of it, you know, and, and everybody at this level has knockout power. And they're all good and they're all.

• 2:52:27Shawn Ryan?

  Where's the placement?

• 2:52:28Speaker 05

  The placement, I mean, listen, temple, ear, this is probably the most dangerous one. And then if you can catch that chin, because really all a knockout is, is your brain bouncing up your skull and then you go unconscious. It's your body's way of protecting you.

• 2:52:43Speaker 05

  Or at least that's what I think.

• 2:52:45Shawn Ryan?

  Doesn't seem like good protection.

• 2:52:47Speaker 05

  It's not, because then you're fucking defenseless, but. Um, yeah, so I just have a really good understanding and I always prided myself in power. I actually never knocked anybody out. I've dropped people before that and I've hurt people, but I never really knocked anybody out until I knocked out. The first guy in my amateur fight. So I won that fight and then, uh, I fought again, knocked that guy out, made my pro debut, knocked that guy out. Fought another fight, won a decision.

• 2:53:15Shawn Ryan?

  How did you make your pro debut?

• 2:53:17Speaker 05

  So I made my pro debut. I was four and one as an amateur and I just felt held back. I was like, bro, I want to elbow motherfuckers. I want to knee them in their face. I want to kick them in their face. Like, I'm a complete mixed martial artist. Like, I want to use all the tools. I felt so held back with like, when you're an amateur until you become an advanced amateur, you can kick the legs without shin guards, but you can't kick them in the face. If you drop somebody in the amateurs. With the shin guards, you can't hit them in the face. You can only hit them in the body. I'm like, well, what the fuck's the point in dropping them? So I made sure when I hit people, I just had to fucking put them out in one shot and it was the intention. My intention was to actually, like, I used to picture Mortal Kombat when I hit you, your head fucking shatters and, um.

• 2:53:58Speaker 05

  I still had that rage. I still had that anger. So when I was hitting you, I was putting everything into every shot. And it paid off. Now it doesn't pay off because you got guys that are defensively responsible. They know how to weather the storm and you know, they have good game plans and they've been there, done that against guys who everybody hits hard. So it's a little bit different now. You have to really be technical to get that shot. Um, but I was ready to make my pro debut. At this point, I already got, Sam came on board. Sam Orpiso, who's very monumental as to why my hands are as good as they are. He came on board for my fourth amateur fight against that guy that I told you was talking shit on me. His name was Adam Matia. Complete fucking loser. And, uh, yeah, so, um, I beat him. I had Sam.

• 2:54:41Speaker 05

  Sam used to fucking make me show up at 3 a.m. just to see if I would show up. Make 5 a.m., 6 a.m., drive all the way to Philly, 40 minutes, just to see if I would show up. And I did it time and time again, time and time again. And I kept asking him and begging him to coach me, and I finally got him on board. And I told him I would do whatever it takes, you know, to be successful at this. And I'll wake up at any hour. I don't give a fuck what time it is, let's do it. And I did that. And he definitely tested that. And, um, you know, I just started improving, getting better and getting better and getting better. I would say where I developed the slowest though was the diet. You know, I didn't have money to really like eat super, super clean like I do now. Um, but yeah, I made my pro debut and fucking smashed the dude.

• 2:55:22Speaker 05

  Smashed the dude. I, I mounted him and fucking, I like, I, I was just being, this is why I say I wouldn't stop if there wasn't a ref at that time. Cause I was so anger filled. That I would like get off on fucking hurting people. So I remember I was sitting on top, I like, I fucking was beating his ass for like, I did it in the first round, but I was beating his ass and I fucking took him down, threw him down. I already cut him with an elbow on his head and I fucking mounted him and I posture up and just started hitting him. And the dumbest thing he could have done was try to hit me back. And then I wound up hitting him and his eyes rolled. I must've hit him like eight times before the ref got me off. And he was like, he was like crucified like out and I just kept fucking hitting him like I wouldn't stop. And the ref like threw me off and that was my pro debut. Uh, it was probably one of my favorite wins.

• 2:56:06Speaker 05

  Because, uh, just how violent it was. Like you could see the anger and shit like that. And for me, it wasn't just anger towards my father and my life, but it was anger towards like, you motherfuckers don't think I'm gonna make it, I'm coming. So that was my pro debut. Then I fought um my second fight against a guy who fought in Bellator who had like a lot more experience than me. And I beat his ass, dominated him. It was so slippery. I definitely could have finished the fight, but it was so slippery and humid in there. I remember I couldn't like fucking place my feet or anything and I won a decision and then I won all finishes. I was six and O. Uh, won my first title for Art of War. This, this company called Art, uh, venue called Art of War.

• 2:56:49Speaker 05

  Um, and then I lost my first fight because-

• 2:56:52Shawn Ryan?

  What's Sam thinking leading up to this?

• 2:56:55Speaker 05

  Leading up to what?

• 2:56:56Shawn Ryan?

  To your first loss. I mean, you're just crushing him.

• 2:56:59Speaker 05

  He knew, he, I was more than ready. I was more than ready, but I didn't let him know where I was mentally. I was suicidal again.

• 2:57:05Shawn Ryan?

  You were suicidal through the wins?

• 2:57:07Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah, I was angry, man. It was eat me up. I hadn't forgiven my father. I hated my life. Like, I still wasn't making any money. You know, you basically fight for free, bro. All the way up until you get to the UFC, you know, they might give you two grand. Maybe, and that, that's as a professional with like fight experience, you know, when you're an amateur, you don't get paid a purse. You only get ticket sales and I didn't sell any tickets at the, for my first three. So I wound up owing money because I would spend the money I had, I needed to fucking survive, you know, before I was living with Harmon. But then, you know, my first, I think I made five hundred, five hundred, my first pro fight, maybe seven hundred, seven hundred? Or maybe three fifty, three fifty, something like that. I don't remember what it was. And um, but I started picking up some sponsorship, so it made it a little easier, you know, and Sam, like Sam didn't just coach me.

• 2:57:52Speaker 05

  Sam, he was a fighter too. He fought in Bellator. He was thirteen to three as a professional, very successful MMA guy. But then he had a kid, maybe he had another kid and just like fighting was not feasible if you lost. And he lost one of his last fights as an MMA fighter. And it just wasn't, it just didn't make sense for him to do it anymore.

• 2:58:11Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, when you say suicidal, how suicidal are you talking about? Thinking about it every day, multiple times?

• 2:58:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, every day, every day. I just had this dark cloud over me, like I started feeling worthless. Because I had the problem with, now that I'm a fighter, my identity is fighting. And then I forgave my father, like I tried to let go of it right before my, I was six and O, right before my seventh fight. Uh, professional fight, I, so I'd already won a title, Art Award, then I went to this company called Ring of Combat, which were awesome. And I won the title there. And mind you, I was finishing everybody in the first round. I only had one decision. So I was, I knocked everybody the fuck out and won the belt in like 50 seconds or something, like smash this guy. And then I was fighting a guy who honestly wasn't really that good. He was like six and four at the time, or five and four, or five and three, something like that. And I was six and O.

• 2:59:00Speaker 05

  And, um, and I was supposed to fight a guy who was 10 and three, but he was the replacement because the guy pulled out, got hurt or something.

• 2:59:08Speaker 05

  And it was the first time I ever walked into a fight and I was like, there was no music that could hype me. There was no people that could motivate me. And I was just like, I don't want to do this. It was the weirdest fucking feeling, man. It was the weirdest feeling. And it was the first time that I'd had my girl's family come and watch me, because we, we didn't like each other at first. They didn't like me, I didn't like them. You know, I'm the disgruntled angry kid who used to fight kids and fucking, was an angry kid and they didn't want me with their, with their daughter type shit. And, you know, I didn't blame them. Looking back, I don't blame them at all. And I love their family, you know, they, they are a family to me. And the Kaka family is probably another godsend. Not even probably, they are a godsend. They've been wonderful people. Um, so.

• 2:59:53Speaker 05

  Walked out there, man, was trashing this fucking guy, dominating him and everything, and then I fucking was tired. Um, I had his back, I had mouth, but I didn't have the finishing mentality. So I wasn't trying to ground and pound, like to get him out of there. I was just trying to control him and I don't know why. And it was, it's still, it still fucking bothers me because, like, bro, I took him down at will, I dominated and everything. So then I took a shot, I was already tired, I blew my nut, I was done. And I didn't have anything to fight for. I didn't know what I was fighting for. First time it ever happened to me. Didn't have the anger, didn't have the fucking let me prove everybody wrong. And I fucking took a shot, like slipped. Like, kind of like did a split, and I was against cage and he stuck a guillotine and I didn't tap and got put to sleep. Wake up and fucking, that was the first time I was devastated.

• 3:00:38Speaker 05

  And I was fucking crying, looking at myself in the mirror like what a fucking loser, what a pussy and all these things and just like real negative and um. You know, that's where. That girl is very special, you know? Um.

• 3:00:53Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, did you talk to anybody about suicidal tendencies or?

• 3:00:56Speaker 05

  Not before that.

• 3:00:58Shawn Ryan?

  You just?

• 3:00:58Speaker 05

  Nah, just bottled it up. I was always used to handling emotions on my own.

• 3:01:02Shawn Ryan?

  What fuck in front of the other?

• 3:01:04Speaker 05

  Harman, I didn't tell Sam, I didn't tell, you know, I told Harman about the abuse at home, but I would never tell him about suicide. I would never tell him about depression because I, I thought it was weak to talk about it as a man. And uh, when it's not, there's nothing wrong with talking about it. Um. Especially if you're struggling with it, you know, so. After that I did and you know, I got myself right and I came back and I, I also went and got a different look from another team because the team that I was training at, which was Bounce Studios, they're amazing jujitsu school, but they are not an MMA program school. And uh, at least to make it to that level, to the UFC level. And so I went out to Colorado and trained with a team called Elevation. I went and trained with Neil Magny.

• 3:01:42Speaker 05

  Uh, who's in the UFC, been a long time bet, whatever. And I got a different look, was training at altitude, came back, you know, got another first round or second round knockout. And got my mind right, got myself physically right, like was lifting and eating right and doing all these things. And I just started going on a tear. And um. Then I got that contender series fight.

• 3:02:02Shawn Ryan?

  How did that come on your plate?

• 3:02:04Speaker 05

  After my return. So I lost, then I won, and then I got that contender series fight. And so now I'm seven and one and I go to fight this guy Stoltz, who I broke my arm against.

• 3:02:14Shawn Ryan?

  Did they approach you?

• 3:02:16Speaker 05

  Yes. So uh, they approached my manager. My manager, my management approached them with my record, you know, you kind of, you have a manager that goes, who I've signed with since I was one and O, his name's Lloyd Pearson. And I've been with him, he's under Vayner Sports and I've been with him since I was one and O. It's like, and he doesn't take people that are that young in their career. But Chandler had initially done a documentary that was. About my life, trying to get into the UFC, but it was deleted because we just redid it once the story made sense when I got UFC. Um, but anyway, nonetheless, they saw the documentary, Eddie Alvarez, I was close with, who was in the UFC, former champion. Um, he was a champion of Bellator, champion in UFC, fought and won. Uh, fought Dustin Poirier, Conor McGregor, fucking, um.

• 3:02:58Speaker 05

  All kinds of people. Rafael dos Anjos is who he beat to win the belt. Um. So anyway, Lloyd manages Eddie and then that's how that connection happened and then they signed me at 101. So Lloyd paid for me to go out to Denver. That's how I got to go out there because I didn't have the money for it. Gave me a car and everything and me and my girl went out there and you know, so uh it was a good experience for me. But yeah, so he contacted UFC. UFC offered me a fight against this guy who was 12 and one, which was Dustin Stoltz. So I go out there and I fight him.

• 3:03:31Speaker 05

  And I had Sam Morpison. I had one of my best friends at the time in my corner. That was it. I had one real coach. I had no training partners. It was just me and him. And uh it was during COVID. So I, yeah, it was, it was, it was bad. It sucked. And um so I got out there and I fight and I lost. I broke my elbow. Get put in an ambulance. Don't get me, don't get to meet Dana White. All he posts is like, oh yeah, Joe had a dislocation. He'll be fine because that's all we thought it was at first. Turns out I exploded the radial head in my elbow, which was like, I can, I can turn my hand like this, but I can't turn my hand like this. So now I have, I can't power clean. I can't turn my hand. My arm doesn't go straight.

• 3:04:14Speaker 05

  Um, when I had my first surgery, so before I skip to that, I got in an ambulance. I'm fucking crying and I'm like, dude, I did 20 years in this fucking sport to fail. And I remember asking God like, why? What the fuck am I supposed to learn from this? What is the point? And da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Victim, victim mentality. And um, you know, had I just been patient, realized that no storm lasts forever, I would be okay. But uh went to another dark place again. And uh I got the first surgery, um, but they told me you'd never fight again. They were like, you're done. You're not fighting again. Like you, you, you'll slip to, you'll dislocate it even easier now.

• 3:04:54Speaker 05

  Um, because they had to cut one of the capsules, which I guess is like a SRAM wrap that holds all your joints and muscles and ligaments in place or something like that. Could be fucking that up, but that's essentially the idea. So I get the surgery and my arm's like this, literally like this. So. And I do all the, the therapy and the rehab and all this shit. And I come and I see, I drive to Sam's house and I'm like, look, man. I was like, I'm gonna fucking come back. I'm gonna fight. I'm gonna fight. He's looking at me like, what the fuck, Joe? Like, it's not gonna happen.

• 3:05:25Speaker 05

  And then I tried to go back. I joined Team Marquez, uh, which is where I'm at now. My head coach is John Marquez. Jonathan Webb's my jiu-jitsu coach. And then I was close with Sean Brady. I knew Sean Brady since I was 13 years old and he was 16 years old. And I'd always like stay in contact with him, not often, but every now and then we always had a good mutual respect for each other. And I'd been telling him before I lost the contender series that I wanted to make the move over there because I knew I needed a real team if I was going to make this my career. I needed real sparring partners, real regiment. Like, we didn't even have an MMA program. All the way I made it to the UFC and the way I won all these fights was literally simply hitting pads. Wow. Hardly sparring. Maybe once a week I sparred with Basil Hafiz, who's in the UFC.

• 3:06:06Speaker 05

  I'd sparred with him, who was a 70 pounder, who I would do very well against. And it wasn't enough. Wow. I had my best friend at the time that was only a wrestler who knew no fighting at all and I would just use him as a drill dummy.

• 3:06:22Speaker 05

  And that's how I made my first fucking contender series run. Holy shit. No strategic conditioning coach or nothing. So look at all these pieces that I didn't have to the puzzle.

• 3:06:31Speaker 05

  And that's, that's the other thing that gave me motivation. It's like, once I get these things right, I'm gonna go on a fucking tear. Once I get these things right, I'm gonna go on a fucking tear. So anyway, I have the first surgery. I'm fucked up from it. My elbow's fucking stuck. I have excruciating pain. Every time I extend, it's the worst nerve pain I've ever felt in my life. Let alone the surgery itself, plus the break. Worst fucking pain I ever felt. And, um, you know, all the while I keep telling my girl, like, you know, at that time, like, I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna do it for us. I'm gonna do it for us. I promise. I promise. I promise. I promise.

• 3:07:07Speaker 05

  So I go and I get a, I go back to the same surgeon. I'm like, look dude, something's fucking wrong. Takes an x-ray. He's like, ah, there's nothing we can do. Like, you know, if you do, if we do any more surgery, like, you're gonna have nerve damage. You're gonna have fucking, it's gonna be loose. It's gonna be like flaying around in there every time you punch, which it was. And so I went to this guy named Dr. Tasty, um, who I'm friends with today. And I fucking love that man and uh, he got me back in the fucking cage and he said, you have a 30% chance of success. And as soon as he said that, as he was talking, I was like, when? Let's do it. When? Scheduled it four days later or a week later. And um, right there in the office and fucking went and did it all over. So I was back to square one. So I wasted a whole year of therapy and rehab just to go do it all over again.

• 3:07:52Speaker 05

  Except this time he slit the hole outside again and he slit the hole inside. And he had to cut the capsule. I had a torn forearm still, which is why I was in so much pain for almost a year. And mind you, while, while having a torn forearm, they're hanging fucking weights off of you and chains and fucking making you do all this shit and stretching it while I have a torn forearm. So the pain was fucking, I've never felt something like that. And uh, so I go get the second surgery and here we go. Long road to fucking recovery again. Uh, by the time I was good, um, I went and joined Team Marquez and went over there and uh, was training with Sean and you know, I got cleared probably two weeks right before I was allowed to fight. Uh, I scheduled a fight when I wasn't cleared and then I got cleared literally two weeks before the fight.

• 3:08:37Speaker 05

  But two weeks before the fight, I broke my left thumb off the joint. And I already have all these nerves, like, do I still got it? Am I going to be able to make it? Blah, blah, blah. I'm fighting a world team trials wrestler. I was supposed to fight a former UFC fighter. His name was Kyle Magalhães, Brazilian, and he pulled out of the fight. I think he was just a bitch and didn't want to fight because apparently he had a heart issue, but then he was eating fucking burgers on his Instagram. I don't know what really went down, but yeah, I don't know what down, went down. So they gave me this fucking guy who was Derek Brunson, who was also a UFC fighters wrestling coach guy made, he was, he, he didn't make the world team uh, world team for wrestling, but he did compete in the world team trials, which is a very high,

• 3:09:17Speaker 05

  you know, respectable level of wrestling. And mind you, he was young in his career. He was three and O, four and O. I was seven and one or seven and two. Um, but I was out for two years. So, um.

• 3:09:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I go and I have that fight. I fucking squeezed my hand into the glove. Got past the commission without them knowing I had a broken hand. And um, I couldn't throw my left hand the whole time in the return fight. But I remember my nerves being the worst they ever were. Scared as fuck, like dude, what the fuck am I doing? Why am I doing this? Like, do I still got it? Like, what the fuck? Went out there and faced those demons. And uh, you know, got the second round knockout and fucked that dude up. And um, you know, then my coach told the, the commentators, he's like, you just did that with a broken hand. And uh, they were taken back by that and you know, I had my speech about like, I didn't lose that fucking fight. It was a freak accident and I want to get my fucking shot back. I deserve it.

• 3:10:11Speaker 05

  And um, especially after what I've gone through just to get back here. And I said, you know, I knew as soon as I came in here and that bell rang, like, that this wasn't fucking over and I'm coming. And uh, shortly after that, you know, they hit up my manager, the UFC, and they said, hey, look, we got another fight for him if he wants to do this. And I think it was August.

• 3:10:33Speaker 05

  And when I got the call, I was playing a lot of street ball. And I fucking broke my ankle, dislocated my ankle like three weeks after the fight. So I'm in a boot and they're like, do you want this fight? And I was like, yep.

• 3:10:46Shawn Ryan?

  This is the UFC.

• 3:10:47Speaker 05

  The UFC, yeah. My manager calls me, he's like, do you want to take this fight? And I said, well, I'm sitting in a boot, but I was like, fuck yeah, let's do it. Let's run it back. And it was against a guy who was LFA middleweight champion, used to be a 205 champion. I think he was a two weight champion, I don't remember, but he was like 7'1" or 8'1", had all knockouts, all finishes. And I was the underdog again. And uh, the guy that I was living with, me, my girl, and him, all lived in the same house. Um, at that time. And fucking when I went away to corner one of my teammates, Andre Petrowski in the UFC, they had done a bunch of showings. And we didn't know they were going to sell the house. Uh, but the showings happened while I was away and then when we got back, he tells me like two, three weeks before,

• 3:11:30Speaker 05

  we didn't think we were going to have to move for like months. And he tells me like two, two weeks, three weeks before my fight, yeah, you guys got to find somewhere to live because we're out of here on this date. Which is Tuesday, I thought, Friday, we were kicked out.

• 3:11:44Speaker 05

  And I'm like, well, fuck. Where am I gonna go? I don't have any money. I don't, I don't, you know, whatever. But first things first, I gotta win this fucking fight. And um. Meanwhile, while that's happening, he fucking overdosed on pills or something. And I remember I found him in his room fucking. Bugging the fuck out like cross side as fuck. I'd never dealt with anybody overdosed in front of my face. But I knew something was wrong and I went in the room and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go train or whatever. And dude was like fucking, like couldn't even talk. He was like, uh, uh. I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Remember making fun of him like, what are you, what the fuck are you doing? Like, what the fuck's wrong? And he's like, uh. Like, and then I realized he was fucked up and I don't, till this day, I have no idea what it was. Um.

• 3:12:28Speaker 05

  But his parents, I told his parents, I said, look, I can't deal with this motherfucker. You gotta come get him and take him to the hospital. I'm fucking done with this dude. And there was a whole lot of shit leading up to it that I don't care to talk about, but the dude was just a fuck up. And. So. I go train, whatever. The week before the fight, dude disappears again. First of all, he went to a rehab and then I picked him up in the rehab and I was like, dude, you know, you'd always talk to me like, what the fuck, bro? Like, why, why wouldn't you tell me something like this and all that? He said, oh, I'm sorry, all this crap. And then fucking does it again in a week and disappears and nobody can find him. Overdosed again in a hotel.

• 3:13:04Speaker 05

  And then at, at that point, my attitude was like, I hope you fucking die this time. Because if you're gonna keep fucking taking advantage of everybody that loves you, something I never had.

• 3:13:15Speaker 05

  And you have good parents and you have a good mother, you have a good father. And all you give a fuck about is fucking. Fucking up every opportunity that was ever given to you, then I don't want you around me. And so, and then he tried to call me the day before my fight and be like, yeah, I figured you wanna hear that I'm alive. And I'm like, bro, honestly, I didn't even care if you were dead. And I remember hanging up the phone and being like, fuck off, like. So then I fought. All the fights sucked ass on that fucking card. There's five fights, ten fighters. And I fight. And. Once again, I'm, I'm standing, you know, what I thought was fucked up is I'm standing in the fucking room behind the doors. You walk out of these doors and you go right to the cage at the apex.

• 3:13:55Speaker 05

  So it's a very big moment. It's very intimate. You don't have any walkout music. It's very quiet. There's no fans. It's just UFC staff and your fighters. That's it. And the coaches. So you can hear everything. And that was my first environment, like second time trying to do it in this environment, which I I kinda liked, but it's a little more intimate. And they're fucking playing on the screen, my arm breaking in front of my face before I walk out. And I'm, and I remember just being like, alright, motherfucker, like. I don't know. I had that victim mentality still. I felt like they were doing it on purpose. I'm like, why the fuck would they play? Why would they have a TV right at the entrance where I can see my fucking arm break? Looking back, that's not what they were trying to do. It's just, you know, telling the backstory as to my journey coming back. So anyway, I go out there, I fight, I fucking knock the guy out.

• 3:14:39Speaker 05

  Um, and then I scream at Dana White, thank you for the fucking opportunity. And I was like, sign my shit. And I screamed it at him. And, uh, nobody's ever screamed at Dana. So, and, uh, my coaches were worried that, yo, motherfucker, you might not get a contract because you just cursed at him.

• 3:14:58Speaker 05

  And I was the only one that got a contract and he drops the whole be Joe Pfeiffer if you want to get into UFC, act like Joe Pfeiffer, be Joe Pfeiffer. And it was.

• 3:15:04Shawn Ryan?

  What did he mean by that?

• 3:15:07Speaker 05

  I think it was, the way I interpret it is he knows the story of how I broke my elbow and it was done. And I came back and I won a fight and I still asked for a fight and I took it and I came back and I was the only one that was like passionate. I was the only one that was like relentless, like I was gonna fucking get it finished. Like I didn't stop, try to win the fight, like he said, like I was trying to fucking smash this dude. And I think he loved the energy afterwards. It was like I was fighting for something much more than just to fight for the win. I was fighting for my fucking life. I was fighting for a fucking way to provide for me and my girl and and things like that, you know, and, um,

• 3:15:48Speaker 05

  I think he appreciated that. So I think it was just the resilience of my story, the resilience of the journey, not being, not accepting no and going away. Like I fought and I came back. They promised me a return fight and they they didn't give it to me. They said, no, go get one more win. So I was fucking pissed about that. Came back, got the win. Then I get the the thing and all the media. Basically, everybody wrote me to fuck off. One of the most hurtful things about the first fucking loss in the, in the, in the contender series was I heard sponsors. Like telling people, they were like, "Yeah, he's fucking done. Yeah, I fucking wasted my money on this kid and all this shit." And like, I didn't hear from him. They wouldn't answer my texts, answer my phone calls, and nothing. Like, I lost so many people through that process. You find out who's real when you're at your low.

• 3:16:32Speaker 05

  And, um, I'm thankful for it, again. And, uh, so yeah, I think B. Joe Pfeiffer is just the resilience of never accepting the odds not being in my favor. And I kept fighting, kept fighting, kept fighting, and I wasn't, I wasn't gonna quit. So, I go out there and I beat a guy I was supposed to lose against on paper, which means nothing. And, um, and then I scream at him to give him my fucking opportunity, you know? I think that, I think that fired him up too. Like, somebody who wants to be here. Somebody who's dying to get this opportunity. That's a motherfucker that deserves it. So I think that's why he used me as an example, and he was very frustrated at the other performances of the night. So it also helped that they didn't do, they didn't do good.

• 3:17:11Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:17:12Speaker 05

  And then, um, yeah. He wound up handing me-

• 3:17:15Shawn Ryan?

  How did that make you feel to get that kind of recognition from Dana White?

• 3:17:19Speaker 05

  Man, I was fucking floating on cloud nine. I'd never smiled so much in my life. It felt so good to just smile and just be happy of what I've done for once. I didn't have that moment before that, you know? Um, and even, even people on the regional scene, like local to home, I don't think that they thought I was gonna make it. I think they knew I had potential before I got hurt, but then after that, nobody really thought I was coming back. They thought I was done. And, um, so yeah, it was, it was one of the best feelings in the world. And then he wound up flying me out that weekend. So, it was cool how things transpired, right? So obviously, I fell on cloud nine. He wound up giving me money to house me for the next, you know? I told that story for the next year.

• 3:17:58Speaker 05

  Um, but then Dana personally flew me and my girl out to Texas for the Amanda Nunez, uh, Joey Adipena II fight, I think it was, where she got her belt back. And, um, you know, I got to meet Mike Tyson, which was like my favorite fighter of all time. I'm not a guy that's a fanboy. I don't really care to meet people aside from, honestly, you've probably been one of the people that I'm most excited to meet aside from Mike Tyson. And, um, but I would say this is a lot more meaningful just because of the impact of it. Um, but he was one of my favorite boxers. I grew up watching him. I loved his aura, like, the black shorts, the mean mentality, like, I really related with that.

• 3:18:38Speaker 05

  So he flew me out there. So I won my fight on Tuesday. I flew home in the airport on Wednesday. They had already sent me another fight. And I accepted the fight in. The baggage claim area waiting for my fucking bags and it was on my birthday one month later on September 17th. So I flew home Tuesday. I'm sorry. I fought Tuesday, flew home Wednesday, accepted another fight. Thursday I moved out of the condo that I was in. It works out like I told you with the condo with my strength conditioning coach. Adam Ferris, he owns Pursuit. He's the one that got me fucking yoked now. But um.

• 3:19:15Speaker 05

  That man changed my fucking life too. Bro, every person that I've added has fucking done. They've changed my life. So. Yeah, Wednesday I flew home, took another fight. Thursday I moved out and Friday I moved into the condo. Saturday I flew out to the fights. And uh, first time I'd, you know, ever been able to go to an event that fucking close, like sitting right next be- right next to Dana, right behind him. And uh, yeah, it was a fucking fairy tale, man, you know, and even just fucking walking through like the title, the fighter tunnel. Cause I started fighting, I hadn't made my debut yet, so I don't know what any of that's like, but I'm walking out through the tunnel where the fighters would walk. And like people are screaming my name and saying, yo, Piper, yo, B. Joe Pyfer and all this shit. And it was like, damn.

• 3:19:58Speaker 05

  That's how fast it changes. And it was just, it was just great, you know, to see the smile on um. On my girl's face and the smile on my face and. Yeah, it was a true moment to always be proud of and never forget. So it was beautiful. It was beautiful.

• 3:20:14Shawn Ryan?

  That's awesome.

• 3:20:15Speaker 05

  And I finally got my chance. That's all I ever wanted was just an opportunity, man. I didn't want anything given to me. I just wanted an opportunity. And I knew that's the kind of performance I could have. I knew that was the type of breakout I could be because I'm not a character. I'm just me. So there's no, there's no like sifting through my attitude to find out who the real guy is. I just say how I feel. And uh, what better sport to be in than fucking UFC to say how you feel? I don't have a boss that's like fucking checking in on me or monitoring what I say to a certain extent, like. So yeah.

• 3:20:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, so it was cool, man. It was cool. It was really cool. Very grateful and fucking fuck, man. You know, now, now I could look my girl in the face back then and say, I fucking did it. We fucking did it. And uh, that was the most. Yeah, I'll just leave it at that so I don't cry like a pussy.

• 3:21:08Shawn Ryan?

  That's amazing. That's uh, that's, that's amazing, man.

• 3:21:12Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm. And I get to look at Sam Warpiza in his face after all the time, never charged me a fucking dime. Just wanted to see me do better than he did, cause he got screwed over with some management, some people and things like that. Like the MMA world did him dirty, but I could look Harmon in the face and say, hey, we've been saying this before everybody else believed. You were one of the only motherfuckers that believed. And then Sam, and then my best friend at the time, and then Chandler, you know, I've been friends with Chandler since I was in high school. So, and then now he, look at the career he's got. I, I think he is one of the most gifted people behind the camera. And I think his gift is expressing what you don't know how to say.

• 3:21:51Speaker 05

  So now he lives a life where he gets to do this shit and make documentaries about fucking stories that are ten times mine. How, how the fuck is that not a fairy tale?

• 3:22:03Shawn Ryan?

  Don't hype him up too much or I'm gonna steal him.

• 3:22:05Speaker 05

  Take him. He's available. You help him by doing that. Now he's, now he's, he's married, you know, he's able to provide. He's got two kids, two beautiful little kids. And it's, it's a really cool, full circle moment, you know?

• 3:22:17Shawn Ryan?

  Is there a driver behind? When you're going out there? That is to prove your old man wrong?

• 3:22:25Speaker 05

  Not no more.

• 3:22:26Shawn Ryan?

  Nothing?

• 3:22:27Speaker 05

  Nah. Not even a little bit? Rearview mirror, not even a little bit.

• 3:22:31Shawn Ryan?

  Fucking amen. Good for you, dude.

• 3:22:33Speaker 05

  You know why? Because this is me.

• 3:22:35Shawn Ryan?

  Good for you.

• 3:22:35Speaker 05

  I did all this for me and the people that I love, and he's not one of them. So, he can't be included in that. What, what's the point in proving him wrong? I already did that. What, what has he done that's better than me? You know, not even from a fucking money standpoint, but who has he impacted? What lives has he changed? What lives has he inspired? I'll, I'll say my wrongs. I'll admit my wrongs. I'm a man. I can say when I'm wrong. Something he's never done. All he's ever been is a victim, and that's not me, and I refuse to die that way. And I refuse to live that way, cause I only get to live once, so. When I say fuck that guy, it's not, I hate you. It's like fuck that guy. Who are you?

• 3:23:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:23:16Speaker 05

  You couldn't sit across from me and even compare. You're not a man, so.

• 3:23:20Shawn Ryan?

  How's your relationship with your girl's parents now?

• 3:23:24Speaker 05

  Amazing.

• 3:23:25Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah?

• 3:23:25Speaker 05

  Amazing. They're awesome. They're amazing. Yeah, they're, they're great Christian people. I love her brothers, her sister.

• 3:23:34Speaker 05

  They've included me on holidays where that's my tradition, which I used to always hate holidays. And now I look forward to it because I get to see her whole family and um. Yeah, it's it's very special. They made me a fucking cornhole master. Her brothers.

• 3:23:51Speaker 05

  Used to hate cornhole. Her brother's got me so good at cornhole now. And you know, it's just the simple things, man. It's the simple things, you know.

• 3:23:59Shawn Ryan?

  You better marry that one.

• 3:24:01Speaker 05

  Huh?

• 3:24:01Shawn Ryan?

  You better marry that one.

• 3:24:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's, there's a lot of stuff I still want to do. Like, there's a lot of things I want to accomplish before that. But yeah, if if I'm gonna have kids and I'm ever gonna get married, that's probably the one. So. Hopefully I don't fuck it up.

• 3:24:18Shawn Ryan?

  What turned it for him, for her parents?

• 3:24:21Speaker 05

  I think just realizing the person that I was, you know, they had this stigma about who I was. And. Yeah, they had this stigma about who I was and didn't know who I was. They had, they had an idea of what everybody has said who I am versus who I was. And you know, I was a little douchebag then, you know, um. She had only had one guy before me and one boyfriend and, you know, like I said, grew up super Christian and everything. So I didn't have to deal with any baggage. I know the girl's not a whore. She doesn't have a past. I don't have to deal with any of that crap. And um, got a good head on her shoulders and uh. But. Yeah, there was an instance where I just, there was a couple, which I'm not gonna, I'm not even gonna fucking put it out there because I was immature.

• 3:25:04Speaker 05

  But now I used to fucking have a loud car, never fucking pull in the driveway because I felt like they were against me. Because they didn't, they didn't want her to ever like leave her ex at first.

• 3:25:14Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:25:15Speaker 05

  And um, I basically took her from him. So. Um. Probably not the way that they wanted it to go. Uh. And they also wanted to protect their daughter and make sure she wasn't getting involved in something bad or with a bad guy. And you know, there's this stigma around fighters that were violent, mean people and all this shit. So I don't blame them. And I also didn't act accordingly to change their minds. I was kind of like this uh. Think what you wanted me type shit. I don't need to win nothing over with you. But now it's just, I, I don't know when it changed, man, but they just, it just clicked one day. And I think it's just a realization of like what I was trying to do, how I've done it. And uh, when I won my contender series fight, you know, I made sure to say that I love the Kaka family and all that.

• 3:26:00Speaker 05

  And I do, I love them ki- I love them kids. I, I love her parents and they're very wholesome, great people. And uh, I'm very fortunate to be involved in their family, so.

• 3:26:11Shawn Ryan?

  What's it like going to Christmas and Easter and Thanksgiving and?

• 3:26:15Speaker 05

  Homie. I love it, you know, um.

• 3:26:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:26:20Shawn Ryan?

  Did you have any of that as a kid?

• 3:26:22Speaker 05

  We had some Christmases. We had some Christmases, but you know, the Christmases that we had were always.

• 3:26:31Speaker 05

  They weren't as special because you knew how much was going on. Like you can't really just fake because a holiday comes around that the, that the everyday life isn't terrible.

• 3:26:41Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:26:41Speaker 05

  So it wasn't very meaningful.

• 3:26:45Speaker 05

  From my mom getting abused, me getting abused, my sisters getting abused to us all faking smiles because we got gifts. Now as kids, we're not faking the smiles, but you know, the parents are. Uh, because you know what's going on. But my mom, like I said, I always give my mom, she's a respectable woman. And um, like I said, despite the absent years that we've had between us, she always worked her ass off. And that's where I get my work ethic from. And uh,

• 3:27:13Speaker 05

  yeah, you know, I hope that she is proud of herself because she did the best that she could in that situation. And she didn't make all the right decisions and she probably.

• 3:27:24Shawn Ryan?

  Have you told her that?

• 3:27:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, we've had that difficult conversation. You know, I've let her know how she wasn't there and didn't protect me the way she protected the girls.

• 3:27:32Shawn Ryan?

  Have you told her that you hope that she's proud of herself?

• 3:27:35Speaker 05

  Oh, a hundred percent. I've told her over and over, she should be proud of herself. She still works every single day and goes out there and fucking hustles. While that dude sits on his fucking back, playing with his dick, fucking acting like he, he's a cripple. But the second you give him something ego driven, he's on it. Guy doesn't have any physical ailments anymore. So, you know, she's probably gonna work till the day she dies, which sucks, um, unless I have a chance to change that one day.

• 3:28:01Shawn Ryan?

  What would you like to see for your mom?

• 3:28:03Speaker 05

  I would like her to meet somebody and be happy, you know, I, I don't think there's anything worse than leaving this place without a significant other. Um, to hold hands with when you close your eyes for the last time. So I think it's a beautiful thing.

• 3:28:18Speaker 05

  And, uh, you know, she kinda has a sour taste towards men. I think she's getting much better with it because of me. Cause not all men are pieces of shit.

• 3:28:29Speaker 05

  Um, by a large margin, I think, you know, it's definitely hard to find a lot of really good men, but I would like to see her meet somebody and be happy. And even if happiness doesn't include a significant other, I just want to see her happy and, you know, enjoy some things. I want her to go do some things. You know, a lot of her life has been dealing with her daughter's troubles because they all have troubles. Um, and I've tried to tell her, you can help how you can, but you're not obligated to. They need to figure it the fuck out. So, um,

• 3:28:58Speaker 05

  I just hope she puts herself first sometimes. So that's my wish for her. Put yourself first sometimes. You're fifty-eight years old. You know?

• 3:29:06Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 3:29:07Speaker 05

  Your life shouldn't be fucking dealing with your kids' problems.

• 3:29:10Shawn Ryan?

  Joe, I know you got a flight to catch, so we're wrapping up the interview, but I got a, just a couple of topics that I wanna ask you about. One of them is, we didn't get a chance to dive into it much, but you know, you were talking about CTD, traumatic burn injury. That's a lot of stuff that guys from my background deal with and, and I know that comes with, you know, with fighting, with striking, football.

• 3:29:35Shawn Ryan?

  With everything that you've experienced, and you said that, I think you said that you wanted to have kids in the future, would you want your kids?

• 3:29:42Speaker 05

  To fight?

• 3:29:43Shawn Ryan?

  To fight.

• 3:29:43Speaker 05

  No. It's not the right sport to make the most money. You can go play football, you can go play baseball. The pay grade is so much different. MMA is gonna be on its way there, I hope, in the future, but it'll probably be past my time. Or at the end of my time.

• 3:30:00Speaker 05

  But the pay grade is fucking drastically different and um. I wouldn't want to see my kids like this is a very brutal sport. And when I say it's brutal, it's brutal fanbase wise. These motherfuckers are relentless. They'll follow you a fuck around for a year just to insult you.

• 3:30:21Shawn Ryan?

  Are you serious? It's that bad?

• 3:30:23Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, I I'll show you some shit um but yeah, they'll follow you around for a year and tell you you're a fucking pussy. You suck. Oh, you're a fraud. You lost my fucking parlay like anything and everything. Salty Joe, poopy pants Joe. Oh, you talk shit on Mexico. Yeah, I did. Fuck it. Um, but I stand behind it. So it is what it is. But yeah, I mean. Yeah, no, I I don't think I would want it. You don't make no money. You don't make no money. You're gonna fucking spend twenty years trying to be the best and MMA is gonna evolve so much by the time I'm done.

• 3:30:54Speaker 05

  That's gonna be fucking impossible to get in. So I would rather see my kid go and fucking play MLB and make fucking millions or go play in the NFL and make fucking millions um. I mean. I'm a big sports guy, but. Yeah, so I don't think I would direct my kid. I definitely want to teach my kid to defend himself and, you know, take no shit from nobody. And he'll definitely learn to fight, um but he won't learn to fight in an abusive fucking environment like I did. Cause then they'll resent you, they'll resent the sport.

• 3:31:23Speaker 05

  It's honestly that way with a lot of kids, even just simple wrestling. So now, cause the parents have tried to live through their fucking kids too much and instead of just being proud of them and trying to push them. There's a there's a fine line between pushing and motivating and fucking breaking downing um. Uh, uh, what's the fucking word? Uh, discouraging, you know? And um you gotta have some positive reinforcement behind what a child is doing or else they don't want to fucking do it.

• 3:31:48Shawn Ryan?

  If you looked into.

• 3:31:52Shawn Ryan?

  Have you looked into CTE and TBI and shit like that? Is there any discussion about that in the fight community? About what you're, what you're in for when it's over? When these injuries-

• 3:32:03Speaker 05

  No, I've kinda steered, like steered clear of it because I don't wanna fucking think about it. It's like me getting on a motorcycle and being like, well, you could fucking get smashed in the road.

• 3:32:11Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:32:11Speaker 05

  I don't fucking think about it. Um, I do a good job protecting myself for the most part, but yeah, I'm gonna have some form of fucking CTE because of just the training it takes to get to a fight. That's where the real damage is. And, um, you know, I, I worry about it when I do think about it.

• 3:32:28Shawn Ryan?

  Have you looked at psychedelics at all? Are you aware of what those are doing?

• 3:32:31Speaker 05

  Like mushrooms?

• 3:32:32Shawn Ryan?

  Mushrooms, ibogaine.

• 3:32:34Speaker 05

  Mm-mm.

• 3:32:35Shawn Ryan?

  You haven't?

• 3:32:36Speaker 05

  I've heard of mushrooms and like my teammate does them. Um, one of my teammates does them like micro doses and shit like that, but I haven't done it yet. I want to. Um, cause I think it'll be helpful, but, uh, right now I know that, uh, my boys over at ALP, they're protecting me against dementia, Alzheimer's, and, uh, opening up a few neuropassages.

• 3:32:57Shawn Ryan?

  Well, let me educate you a little bit if you don't mind.

• 3:32:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:33:00Shawn Ryan?

  So, this came up on my radar. Cause a lot of, you know, a lot of, from explosions getting blown up, breaching doors, falling out of helos, whatever. You know, a lot of, lot of CTE, lot of traumatic brain injury. And so through my interviews, actually this guy DJ Shipley, who I just, I don't know why, I think you should connect with him. He's a fucking animal. But, uh, good friend of mine. I'd, Eddie Gallagher brought it up. He was, I don't know if you know, he was a SEAL. He had brought up psychedelics. Caught my ear. Then I interviewed this guy Marcus Capone, former, uh, dev group guy, who started this, this, um, nonprofit with his wife Amber called Vets.

• 3:33:42Shawn Ryan?

  Interviewed him, started researching all about psychedelics and so, at the time Stanford was doing the study on, uh, ibogaine. And there were flying in guys that had verified TBIs. Which, you know, if you look at it on the imagery, whatever the, whatever, uh, whatever their, whatever imagery they're using, it shows like these black spots in the brain. These guys would fly down there and you know they're forgetting shit. They're losing their tempers. They're, you know, it, it, it just fucking changes you, man. It changes who you are, your temperament, your memory, all kinds, your mood, all kinds of stuff. And they fly these guys down to Mexico because it's illegal here and they do I became.

• 3:34:27Shawn Ryan?

  And then they'd have a rest day and then they'd fly right back to Stanford in every, I think it was, we'll, we'll have to pull from the studies, but everyone that came back, the black spots were gone. Done. Brains totally lit up, changes their life, changes our mood, cures addiction, cure, cures. I mean, I haven't drank in over three years now and I didn't even go down there for that. Basically, basically what it does is it replenishes the receptors in your brain, which take the cravings away. So it was like, you know, people congratulate me. Oh, congratulations on three years. So dude, I didn't, it was like a light switch. I just didn't want it anymore.

• 3:35:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:35:09Shawn Ryan?

  Came off Adderall, came off sleeping pills, came off. I wasn't really doing any opiates at the time, but, but it cures it like that. And it, it, it, it cures, seems to cure TBI.

• 3:35:23Speaker 05

  What is TBI?

• 3:35:25Shawn Ryan?

  Traumatic brain injury.

• 3:35:26Speaker 05

  Oh, okay, okay.

• 3:35:26Shawn Ryan?

  So if you're getting kicked in the head.

• 3:35:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:35:28Shawn Ryan?

  You're gonna have TBIs.

• 3:35:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, I've been hit, I've been hit where I've seen, I've never been knocked out, but I've been hit where I've lost like pet vision. I've been hit where I see black spots. I've been hit where I've seen white flashes. So, you know, I may have been doing the sport for a long time. My dad dropped me when I was 12. Uh, I was still conscious, but I think I was like the first like real, I'm sure I've had concussions before that from getting stomped, but that was the first time I ever got hit and got dropped. But yeah, I'm definitely, I would love to talk to him for sure.

• 3:35:59Shawn Ryan?

  Well, this is the key.

• 3:36:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:36:03Shawn Ryan?

  Giving you the key for your future.

• 3:36:04Speaker 05

  Health is wealth.

• 3:36:06Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 3:36:06Speaker 05

  So if you don't value your body, you're probably a fucking turd.

• 3:36:11Shawn Ryan?

  One more question.

• 3:36:14Shawn Ryan?

  Looking back, what would you tell your ten-year-old self?

• 3:36:19Speaker 05

  Hold on.

• 3:36:21Speaker 05

  The ride's about to get wild. Just hold on. Just have faith. Hold on. Don't quit. Life is precious. Life is beautiful, depending on the perspective you choose to see it through, what lens you choose to see it through, and then there's a really fucking ugly, dark, evil side to it. And that's why it's super important to people, the company you keep. And, um,

• 3:36:46Speaker 05

  there's always good that you can find, and there's always evil that you can find. Both exist. Good is losing. But, you know, try to keep it as calm and quiet as you can. Value being in your own home and doing the simple things in life. But, hold on, man. Hold on. Don't let go. And don't let anybody discourage you from any idea you have. Go out there and try it, and if it don't work, try the next thing. Just keep fucking trying. Keep trying, keep trying, keep trying. It's like water in a fucking crack. You'll find a way to break through. And, uh,

• 3:37:22Speaker 05

  make sure you have something higher than yourself to pray to.

• 3:37:28Speaker 05

  And that being God. I don't think there's any other thing that you should pray to other than God. So, He's the one for all of us, I think. That's how I'll choose to live my life.

• 3:37:40Speaker 05

  And, uh,

• 3:37:44Speaker 05

  yeah. Hold on, brother.

• 3:37:46Shawn Ryan?

  Good for you, man.

• 3:37:47Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 3:37:48Shawn Ryan?

  Well, Joe, it was an honor to interview you, man.

• 3:37:51Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 3:37:51Shawn Ryan?

  It really is. And I know this is gonna help a ton of people, so, thank you for being open.

• 3:37:58Speaker 05

  Yes, thank you for having me on, and thank you for this milestone in my life. I can honestly say, until this past week, never, ever in the fucking million years where I thought I was gonna be able to sit here and talk to you.

• 3:38:10Shawn Ryan?

  That's pretty fucking cool.

• 3:38:11Speaker 05

  And I've been watching this for a while.

• 3:38:13Shawn Ryan?

  Well, it's my honor.

• 3:38:14Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 3:38:14Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. Bye.