How to Buy Your First Out-of-State Real Estate Investment (Step-by-Step)

Out-of-state real estate investing is making a comeback, becoming one of the best investing strategies of 2025. Why? Home prices in most coastal markets have exploded, forcing investors in pricey areas to look elsewhere for real estate deals that work. Thankfully, America is a big country with plenty of profitable real estate markets, so even if you’re priced out of your own area, you can still invest elsewhere. So, how do you start? What should you do going into a new market as a new investor? Kathy Fettke is returning to the show as our resident long-distance real estate expert, showing you how to buy out-of-state investment properties in just a few simple steps. Anyone (and we mean ANYONE) can follow these steps to purchase a profitable property from a distance, even if it’s your first rental. We’re giving you an exact roadmap of everything you need to know: how to choose markets, find deals, analyze them, get property management, and start renting them out even if you live thousands of miles away. In This Episode We Cover: How to pick an out-of-state investing market and whether you need to visit it first Analyzing deals from a distance and key factors to get right (insurance, property taxes, and more) How to buy a house sight unseen, EVEN as a beginner investor The one type of rental property Kathy says you should buy for your first rental What to tell a property manager as soon as you close on your first long-distance rental And So Much More! Links from the Show Join BiggerPockets for FREE Let Us Know What You Thought of the Show! Ask Your Question on the BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets YouTube BiggerPockets Market Finder Try REsimpli, The Only All-In-One Real Estate Investor CRM Software That Helps You Manage Data, Marketing, Sales, and Operations Sign Up for BiggerPockets Momentum 2025 to Supercharge Your Investing This Year Grab the Book on “Long-Distance Real Estate Investing” Find an Investor-Friendly Agent in Your Area Should You Invest Locally or Long Distance? Connect with Kathy Connect with Dave (00:00) Intro (01:31) Why Invest Out of State? (05:51) 1. Pick (and Visit!) Markets (11:00) Meet with Agents/Property Managers (15:17) 2. Define a "Good" Deal (17:16) Buy New/Turnkey? (20:45) Know Your "Advantage" (23:43) 3. Make an Offer (27:47) How to Buy Sight Unseen (30:18) 4. Close and Manage the Rental (33:22) Reviewing the Steps Check out more resources from this show on BiggerPockets.com and https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1080 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [email protected]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dave Meyer?

  You could still invest in real estate even if it's too expensive where you live. Buying properties hours away and managing them long distance may sound intimidating, but this is a tried and true strategy that investors have successfully used to build wealth for decades. Today, we're going to explain how to pick a long distance market, the steps you need to take towards actually going and pulling off an investment, and some very common mistakes that you can take some care to avoid.

• 0:32Dave Meyer?

  Hey, everyone. It's Dave here from BiggerPockets. We've said it for a long time that investing where you live is probably the best way to invest for most people if you live in an affordable market. That's still true, but with prices rising in so many markets, out of state investing, at least I believe, is becoming a somewhat necessary and good opportunity for the majority of people out there. And I don't see this nearly as a challenge. Like I said, I think that there are a lot of financial benefits and opportunities for return by choosing to invest in a different market. You can basically handpick any place in the whole country to invest that perfectly matches your strategy and your portfolio, your price point.

• 1:15Dave Meyer?

  You just have to follow some basic best practices. And today, I'm going to share some of those best practices that I've learned from my own experiences investing in different markets. And I'm bringing on a very experienced long distance investor, Kathy Fecky, as well. Kathy, thanks for joining us.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Thanks for inviting me.

• 1:34Dave Meyer?

  Well, happy to have you here. You're sort of the prototypical long distance investor, right? Living in California, super expensive. There's ways to invest in California, but I know you personally have chosen to invest a lot out of state. Can you just tell us why you've been doing it?

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. When I, when I first learned about real estate investing, I interviewed Robert Kiyosaki, and he talked about cash flow. Of course, many people know that's his theme. And that was just not something we understood or knew about in California. Most people kind of fed their properties. It costs you Money to own it until over time, you'd probably make a lot of money on it. But you know, this idea of cash flow was so intriguing to me. And at the time, Robert Kiyosaki had said he was investing in Texas because of the affordability, but also because of job growth and population growth to that area, a lot of migration.

• 2:28Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  This was 20 years ago, that I had to dive in and learn it.

• 2:32Dave Meyer?

  That makes sense because California was still 20, expensive 20 years ago. But a lot of the rest of the country wasn't, you know, I started investing in Denver 15 years ago, but you could find cash flow there. Now that market, super difficult. I haven't bought a cash flowing rental there in quite a few years. I've moved on to other types of markets and I get a lot of skepticism about that, to be honest. Like when I tell people that I invest out of state and it was intimidating, but I think the inevitability of the current market is that more and more people who recognize that real estate is a good asset class are just going to have to do this if they want to prioritize cash flow over just a pure appreciation play.

• 3:17Dave Meyer?

  Do you agree with the hypothesis that this needs to become more commonplace for more people?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Well, real estate cycles, it's just how it always has been. And you know, we've seen prices go up for a decade. So a lot of people have only seen really one cycle.

• 3:32Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  But generally, when things become more affordable in expensive areas, and that could be because of low interest rates, it could be because of a housing crash. You know, people tend to want to buy in populated, popular areas like California, when it's affordable and there's tiny little pockets when that's true. Like 2009, you could buy a $50,000 condo in, you know, in the East Bay of San Francisco.

• 4:02Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Or in Riverside, you know, it was cheap. Then when things get expensive and today, this is the cycle we're in. We're in a high interest rate, high price environment. Then more and more people are forced to go look elsewhere. So when I started, it was 2005, easy loans was Driving prices up and and because they were artificially keeping the rates down. We were seeing prices go up dramatically. I think in in two thousand four. Uh, California, Arizona, Nevada, Florida, in some areas, prices went up forty percent in one year.

• 4:35Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  So that just made no sense. And that's when I interviewed Robert Kiyosaki and I was like, what? You know, I can buy a a brand new house in Dallas, Texas, where it has the strongest job. Growth and population growth in the country. It's only a hundred and forty five thousand dollars, you know, it was it was shocking.

• 4:51Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, and I think that's super appealing, right? I mean, it offers an opportunity to get in at a different entry point. I can't say better, but if you're living in an expensive city, you know, where the median home price is five hundred, six hundred, seven hundred thousand dollars. There are places where it's still three to four hundred thousand, which is still under the national median. It's expensive. Don't get me wrong. I mean, compared to last years, but still offers that affordability. So people can sort of get into the market and in my opinion, gives it more potential for upside. I worry a bit about these expensive markets that they're sort of. Reached the limits of affordability and why personally I have taken more to investing. Outside of Denver and Colorado, where I where I got started than in Colorado at this point.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  And that's what happened. There's affordability limits, like you said, and and you find out that you've hit that. When sales slow down, when you start to see price reductions, when you start to see increased inventory. And and that's what we're seeing.

• 5:51Dave Meyer?

  I think the reality is that out of state investing, it makes sense on paper, but there is this sort of emotional fear component. I've had it too. There's no judgment here. I just, it's kind of scary to try and buy something. That's an investment, but is active, like you need to sort of take care of this thing and you're going to be super far away from it. So let's just talk through, I want to spend the rest of this episode, just sort of like talking through the logistics. You've been doing this longer than I, you've helped a lot of people do it. I've done it a bit and I I just want to like share with people like the the tactics, just like step by step. What do you do to go invest out of state? So. What do you recommend first, finding a market?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Well, the first thing I just want to address is that fear is a good thing. I know that's not necessarily what people say, but because people are like, oh, analysis paralysis, and you'll never make a decision if you listen to your fear. My husband, Rich, actually wrote a book on this called Extreme Success, and it was based on, you know, how he jumps off bridges and does extreme sports and the courage he needs for that. And, you know, it really came down to our fear is there to protect us. And really, if we can listen to it, it will give us the answers we need. So, you know, I understand it's scary, and it's scary for a reason because you could lose money. You could trust the wrong person, you could invest in the wrong part of town,

• 7:17Speaker 01

  you could have a bad property manager in place, you might not know the rules of the area. So, listen to the fear. It's going to protect you, but don't get that paralysis, like I was saying. Let it tell you what the next step is.

• 7:31Dave Meyer?

  That's such a good point.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's like, I don't want people running out, and you and I see it all the time. Somebody will say, hey, I found this property online. It's $100,000, and I'm going to get it because it's cheap. And we're both like, no, no, no, no, no. There's so much more you need to do besides look at the price of a property. So, so let's start there. And, and generally, fear is a result of lack of education and information. So, the first thing I tell people is you need information. And for me, it was a matter of getting on an airplane and going.

• 8:05Dave Meyer?

  Yep.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  I got the tip from Robert Kiyosaki 20 years ago. He was investing in Dallas, so I got on a plane and I went to Dallas. Now, not everyone does this, but it's what I needed. I needed to immerse myself in that market, so I understood it. And I quickly learned, and I've told the story before, I, I just kind of went out and found an agent, and that agent took me to a part of town that was very expensive, probably three times the median home price of the area, because she saw dummy on my forehead, like, oh, you're from California. You're not going to know anything about this area. And I knew enough to know that a $400,000 property in Dallas was Cheap for California, like super cheap for California, but very expensive for that area. The median home price was was like 120 at the time.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  So that's the kind of the first thing is understand what's the median home price? It's kind of like when you travel, you want to know what's the exchange rate or you're going to get ripped off because you just don't know. So just kind of starting there and getting some metrics of and anyone can you could look it up online. It's easy, right? To find the median home price, just Google it.

• 9:11Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  And that will at least keep you out of trouble a little bit.

• 9:13Dave Meyer?

  I totally agree. I think it really gets you over that fear is like going and just seeing the place for yourself. And, you know, we've done a lot of episodes, a lot of videos on bigger pockets. If you need help figuring out what market to invest in, you can go to biggerpockets.com/markets. Look through your feed, look on our YouTube channel. We have a lot on the logistics, what metrics you need to look at. But I think when we're just talking tactics today, like first step, what I recommend at least is narrowing it down to two or three markets that you like. Strong fundamentals, good job growth, demographics, places that are in your price point, and then go visit them. And I know that that is expensive, but it is 100% worth it.

• 9:52Dave Meyer?

  And you're going to net a higher return on your investment if you actually go and do this and spend that money. I've probably looked at half a dozen or a dozen markets that I thought I would invest in. I went in and I decided not to just because it just like wasn't the right vibe for me. And although I bear that expense, I'm super happy that I didn't invest in most of those markets. There are a few that got away, but I'm happy with most of those decisions. And at least was able to like, put the face to a name. It's the same thing like when you meet someone, like if you only meet them in Zoom, you can't have the same relationship as if you meet them in person. It's kind of like the same thing when when selecting a market.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's, there's a feeling, everyone has their strengths, right? Some people are super analytical, they like numbers. I'm a sensory person, I guess you could say, so I do need to feel it. I need to go there, know where the downtown is, know where the hot parts of, you know, that where everybody likes to go out and so forth. What are the freeways? Where? Are people in that metro area wanting to live? And and that can take a weekend unless you know somebody already, they could, they could show you around and um cut that process down. But for me, I didn't have anyone when I first started. I found quickly that working with a real estate agent with no experience in investment property um is a mistake. Too often agents will just guess on what a house might rent for because, you know, they don't know.

• 11:15Dave Meyer?

  Totally.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Uh so making sure if you have an agent, they specialize in investment property and hopefully they own it. I mean, that would be the the best of both worlds is they own investment property. They've done it. They know where people are wanting to live and what the rental rates are in those areas. So I pivoted. I just remember asking myself, okay, I just figured out I can't trust this agent. Who can I trust? And that's when I just started calling every property manager I could get my hands on and going into the office to meet with them. Many of them would show me a map and they'd be like, this is where we're getting most of the calls. If, you know, and I would say, what would you buy being the property manager? What would you buy that you could manage easily?

• 11:56Speaker 01

  And they, you know, they're just a wealth of information because they're stuck with with the property, right? They're gonna have to manage it. They don't want to get you junk that they can't rent out.

• 12:04Dave Meyer?

  Totally. I I completely agree. I want to come back to that idea of a PM first, but just for everyone. Remembering the logistical steps here, I think we we might have forgotten something because we're saying pick a market and go there. But I would say pick two or three markets. Next step is to line up these meetings that we're talking about.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:21Dave Meyer?

  So line up meetings with like multiple real estate agents ideally. Have conversations with them first. Don't have the first call, the first contact be in person. That could be a waste of your time. I would say, you know, pick three to five people, agents, three to five property managers, call them all before you go there. And then pick one or two of each that you feel pretty good about and then line up meetings. That's at least what I've done in the past.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:46Dave Meyer?

  Um and I find it to be super helpful. One, you'll get a vibe, but two, compare and contrast how different levels of service, different perspectives on the market. Personally, like I am very analytical and I'm in general an optimist. Person, but when I come to underwriting deals, I want the most pessimistic person on the world to do things like I want my PM to be like, you know, the rents are low, like maybe you can get them up a little bit. I like to see someone who thinks about investment and risk in the same way that I do. And some people are overly optimistic, in my opinion, or base their numbers on rent growth or home price appreciation on the period from 2020 to 2022. And they're like, hey, look, properties went up 20%. They're going to keep going up that rate.

• 13:32Dave Meyer?

  No, they're probably not. And so looking at people who have the same perspective is going to be really helpful. And like Kathy said, I personally don't even like to lead them. I'm not like, hey, I like this neighborhood. I'm analytical, so I look that up ahead of time. But I let people say to me, I say, where would you invest? Like what if you were me, what's the move? And I literally say that to people and I have them show it to me. And if I buy it, I'll work with them. If I don't, then it's time to move on to someone else or pick a new market. If you don't buy anything that anyone in that market can offer you.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, all of that is so true. At the end of the day, you're dealing with salespeople and you just, you just have to know that. If they're really desperate for a sale, they're going to make everything sound good. But if they're experienced and really care about your future, they will talk about the downsides along with the upsides. Someone who doesn't understand investment property is just not going to understand those types of things. Maybe the area they show you is great for a homeowner, but maybe not so good for an investor. That was kind of the case with me on that first agent.

• 14:32Dave Meyer?

  Well, we've talked about the first step is sort of narrowing down your list, scheduling a visit, orchestrating the right people to meet with. We do have to take a quick break, but when we come back, we're going to talk about what comes next on your search and execution on investing out of state. Before we go to break, I want to thank our sponsor, ReSimply, for the previous segment. ReSimply is the all in one CRM built for real estate investors. You can automate your marketing, get skip tracing for free, send direct mail and connect with your leads all in one place. Head over to re simply.com slash bigger pockets now to start your free trial and get 50% off your first month.

• 15:14Dave Meyer?

  You know that thing where you discover a feature you wish your software had? And it turns out it already exists, just on a different platform. Like, oh, you want rent payments processed in two days? Rent Ready does it. Oh, you want to block tenants from making partial payments mid eviction? Rent Ready does that, too. Oh, you want full accounting and tax-ready reports without paying for a second tier? Rent Ready does it. And oh, you want tenant screening that doesn't overcharge your applicants? Rent Ready also does this. Basically, if you've ever complained out loud about your property management software, Rent Ready probably already built the fix. It's $12 a month, you're welcome.

• 15:55Dave Meyer?

  Sign up right now for $50 off your first year of Rent Ready with promo code BP CASH. BiggerPockets Pro members get it completely free. Sign in through your Pro account at rentready.com/biggerpockets. That's rent, R-E-D-I, dot com slash biggerpockets. I just booked a backpacking trip through Olympic National Park. Two nights out on the trail, no cell service, nothing to do but eat trail mix and stare at mountains I'll never get tired of. That's the whole appeal. But while I'm off-grid, my place doesn't need to sit empty. I can list my space on Airbnb and make a little extra income while I'm away. And with Airbnb's co-host network, I could partner with a vetted local co-host to help

• 16:39Dave Meyer?

  take care of the details, from guest communications to onsite support, so I can fully unplug and enjoy my time out in the backcountry. If you've got upcoming travel plans, you can find a co-host at Airbnb.com/host. Trying to get started in real estate investing or wholesaling? The hardest part is finding and talking to motivated sellers before everyone else does. That's why new investors are using PropStream. PropStream gives you access to over 160 million properties nationwide, plus simple AI tools that help you find better deals faster. Use pre-built lead lists like pre-foreclosures, vacant homes, and cash buyers, then let the PropStream intelligence assistant help you.

• 17:23Dave Meyer?

  Analyze properties and estimate opportunities in seconds. And now with PropStream Connect, you can do more than just find leads. You can actually contact them. You get free skip tracing, including LLC and corporate contacts. You can launch dialer campaigns, use click to dial with AI prompts, automate follow-up marketing and send postcards, all from one platform. No experience needed. You'll also get accurate comps, built-in calculators and step-by-step training through PropStream Academy, so you know exactly what to do next. Start your free seven-day trial and get 50 free leads at www.propstream.com/bp. That's www.propstream.com/bp.

• 18:08Dave Meyer?

  Here's why savvy real estate investors are obsessed with bonus depreciation. It lets you take that rental property or commercial building you own and depreciate most of the cost against your income legally, 100% IRS compliant. That's instant cash flow improvement. Cost Segregation Guys is the number one firm nationwide specializing in identifying these faster depreciating assets in your property. They've completed tens of thousands of studies across all 50 states, from remote cabins to apartment complexes. So if you own investment property, this is a no-brainer. So visit costsegregationguys.com/bp for your free proposal and find out how much you could save this tax season.

• 18:55Dave Meyer?

  All right, welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. I'm here with Kathy Fecky talking about how, logistically, tactically, step-by-step you invest out of state. So far, we've talked about narrowing down your markets, going to visit them, who you should talk to while you're in those markets. Kathy, let's just assume you find one, you know, you go to two or three, you find one that you like and you have a good vibe on. What comes next? How do you actually pull off buying something?

• 19:21Speaker 01

  So, once you've found your market and you've found your team, there's more things you need to understand, obviously, like, let's just do a basic one, property taxes.

• 19:29Dave Meyer?

  Right.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Getting that pro forma out and not just understanding Price points of the area. I mean, that's first. I need, you need to understand median income, median home price of the area. Next step is all the other details on that pro forma, right?

• 19:43Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think the step for me that comes once you pick a market, or even if you're narrowing down the next two, is sort of what is a good deal in that market? That comes down to, one, talk to your agent, talk to your property manager, figure out how you're going to get deal flow. You need to start looking at a lot of deals. And to Kathy's point, then you need to stress test your assumptions. Like, put in different numbers, figure out what rent growth is really going to be. What are your taxes going to be? What is your insurance cost? The big ones that you really, I worry about are, one, is like, appreciation assumptions,

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:18Dave Meyer?

  rent growth assumptions and expenses. And that's sort of the art to investing anywhere. This isn't just true out of state. This is just true of underwriting deals. Do you have any recommendations for how people get comfortable underwriting an out of state deal?

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Again, to me, the property manager is the biggest help there on helping you plug in the right numbers because a salesperson might skimp on some of that stuff. So getting as much information as possible on what the real costs are going to be. You know, age of property and condition of property is something people miss so many times.

• 20:53Dave Meyer?

  If someone's investing for out of state and it's their first investment ever, do you recommend, I probably would, just skipping a renovation, trying to buy something that's turnkey? Because it feels like a lot to take on. New market, first time investing, Anna renovation. There's a lot of moving parts there if you've never done it before.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. I mean, your first investment property, and sometimes people's first property ever is their first investment property.

• 21:18Dave Meyer?

  Yep.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  So there is so much to learn in that first transaction. Make it easy for you. You know, just even the process of getting a loan and getting insurance and interviewing your property manager, these are big deals. So just keep it simple. A newer home would help. An area that has A or B class schools, generally families like to live in areas with good schools and they'll tend to stay longer. If their kids are happy in school, they don't want to move their kids too much. So you might not be getting the best deal ever, but you're going to get a safe one, a good one by, by just, you know, don't go into those high crime areas because You know, the price is low and you got a huge discount and you, you know, you can do these renovate. It's, it's too much.

• 22:00Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  If you're inexperienced 100% and I can almost guarantee you're going to lose money if you do it that way.

• 22:07Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, totally. I, I, I think it's, it's super hard to do. You know, my first deal that I did out of state that I owned directly, I did a renovation, but I did a very modest scope on purpose. I didn't go in and say, I'm going to like change the layout or gut something. You know, I was like, I'm going to renovate the kitchen. I'm going to renovate, you know, do a cosmetic rehab. And even that was still a challenge, but I was able to pull it off. It is definitely possible, but I would recommend that's more for people who have invested in their own market or in a different market and it sort of had the experience to do that. So I think that that's a really important component of out of state investing and getting over the fear that we were talking about.

• 22:52Dave Meyer?

  It's like, just set yourself up for success. Like you don't have to take this just giant leap where everything has to go right on the first deal. I really think learning and not losing is the number one objective of the first deal that you do in any market. And so find a corresponding property with that and also find an agent who understands that and is not going to, you know, pitch you some deal that could have a huge ROI, but it's fraught with risk or, you know, is going to require a lot of your time. I think we talk about a lot on the show, but it really comes down to your goals. And if you're out of state investing, I personally think the first goal should be learn, make a solid return.

• 23:34Dave Meyer?

  Doesn't have to be great, like Kathy said, and that will really sort of narrow your focus and help you pick which deals you should be seriously considering and actually going and underwriting.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I cannot emphasize that enough that, you know, if you know your strategy and, and you know, you're just buying this as an investment, more of a passive investment because you're busy, then get something newer in a nicer neighborhood. Now, if you are unemployed and you can go and spend some time there, that's. Different, but another big mistake that people make and they make it over and over again is they don't calculate the cost of that. Like if you have to go do a renovation and you have to go stay there and pay for flights and hotels and food and take work off or whatever, that has to be calculated in the cost of that deal.

• 24:22Dave Meyer?

  I often just think about when I'm looking at the out of state market, like what is your advantage? And mine is not going to be renovation. Like, you know, the, the trying to find the gems that you can renovate and really do a great value add is for the hustlers. You know, it's going to be people who are doing direct to seller marketing for wholesalers to house flippers. And they're good at that because they're there every single day looking for these deals, these diamonds in the rough. And as an out of state investor, my advantage is that I'm bringing capital and I can buy things that might be a little bit more expensive relative to that market, but it's less expensive for me. And I can afford to buy something that is in better

• 25:06Dave Meyer?

  condition. Like that is the advantage that I have in that market. I don't want to be competing against people who know the market better than me. I want to be competing against other out of state investors for the good properties that are going to be low maintenance, easy to maintain over the long run. So I just really recommend people try and think about that and not try and do something that isn't really in your wheelhouse, especially in a new market. But Kathy, now we need to talk about actually making an offer. Do you go visit the property in person? Do you do it sight unseen? We're going to get to that right after this break. Before we go into the break though, I want to remind everyone that both Kathy and I will be speaking at BiggerPockets new virtual

• 25:51Dave Meyer?

  summit called Momentum 2025. If you haven't already heard about it, it's an eight week virtual investing summit starts February 11th. Anyone who signs up gets live access to 18 investing experts. We're also going to have all sorts of accountability groups and mastermind groups that you can join to meet other investors just like you. Kathy, you and I are talking about State of the market in 2025. So we're going to get all into the econ part. I'm excited to have you as backup on that as we try and forecast what is happening in this confusing market. Are there any things you're particularly looking forward to talking about?

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you gotta, you gotta look at it every year. I mean, really, every, every few months, every quarter, you should be looking at the state of the market and you and I are probably doing that weekly. So yeah, I think there's gonna be a lot of changes in 2025. There already are. And we need to be aware of those. So I'm super excited. I mean, some of it comes down to inventory, which areas have too much, are oversupplied, which are undersupplied, how, you know, some of the new administrations policies might affect real estate. So it's going to be a whole new year and we need to understand it.

• 27:00Dave Meyer?

  Hundred percent. Yeah, we're talking a lot today about tactics, but if you don't the big picture, make sure to tune into the virtual summit. We're going to be getting all into that and how you can achieve momentum to build your portfolio in the coming year. We'll be right back. For my wife's birthday, I wanted to make her a new website for her landscape design business. So I researched a lot of different options. I tried out a couple, but honestly, it was really overwhelming. It was pretty time consuming and still the site wasn't coming out the way I wanted it to. Then I tried Hostinger and everything was super simple. I asked Hostinger's AI to build a clean site for her business and it had a working version up in minutes. No coding or

• 27:44Dave Meyer?

  designer needed. Plus, its AI agent helps with SEO, website copy and email marketing after launch. You get domain, website, email, all in one account. And right now, you can get Black Friday and Cyber Monday pricing through December 14th. So snag Hostinger's services at their lowest prices before the sale ends. Create your website today for just $1.99. Go to hostinger.com/real estate and use code REALESTATE for an additional 10% off Black Friday and Cyber Monday pricing.

• 28:16Henry Washington?

  Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota Ford ability. And it all starts with a great deal from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or get a Corolla sedan packed with the latest features, advanced tech and head-turning style. Take a test drive in two of Toyota's most popular SUVs, the spacious, family-friendly Grand Highlander and adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid and plug-in hybrid models available across the lineup, plus efficient all-electrics like the BZ, BZ Woodland and all-wheel-drive CHR, you can drive your way and skip the pump. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with legendary resale value built on a reputation for quality and reliability.

• 29:01Henry Washington?

  So when it's time for your next Toyota, you could trade in for more from a great deal today to a great value tomorrow. A Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 29:16Dave Meyer?

  Investing in real estate has always been smart, but it hasn't always been simple. Now it's both, thanks to the Fundrise Flagship Fund. The Fundrise Flagship Fund launched more than five years ago with a mission of delivering low-fee access to blue-chip private market real estate. Today, the Fundrise Flagship Fund has grown to manage more than $1 billion of real estate on behalf of hundreds of thousands of investors, making it one of the largest funds of its kind. For those who believe real estate has an important role to play in their portfolio strategy, the Fundrise Flagship Fund has positioned itself as both a simple and a smart option. Whether you're starting with $10 or $10,000,

• 29:59Dave Meyer?

  the Fundrise Flagship Fund makes adding real estate's unique potential for both passive income and consistent growth. Just visit fundrise.com/pockets to make your first investment today. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship Fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the fund's prospectus at fundrise.com/flagship. This is a paid advertisement.

• 30:25Henry Washington?

  BiggerPockets Real Estate is brought to you by MOD. MOD prescribes a once or twice daily modophonal drink that can keep you energized, focused, and alert throughout the day. Here's the mechanism. Energy drinks with caffeine temporarily block eudeneine, the chemical that makes you tired. It builds up, and when the caffeine wears off, it all crashes down on you at once. Modafinil works differently. It engages multiple pathways in your brain, dopamine, norepinephrine, histamine, and orexin to achieve steady energy and alertness for 10 to 12 hours. Modafinil was invented in the 1970s, and since it's been used in the highest performers on the planet, soldiers, pilots, and astronauts aboard the space station use modafinil in

• 31:06Henry Washington?

  high-stakes situations where full concentration and alertness are paramount. It's now available at mod.com to qualifying patients. Visit mod.com, that's M-O-D dot com, for free consultation and get 10% off your first order plus free shipping with promo code BPRE. That's promo code BPRE at mod.com. See their website for important safety information, and we thank MOD for sponsoring the pod.

• 31:33Dave Meyer?

  I just booked a ski trip to Park City, and I've already got the whole thing planned out. Five days, first tracks every morning before the crowds show up, my knees reminding me I'm not 25 anymore by the second run, and an embarrassing number of overpriced burritos at the lodge. I don't even care. This is the trip I look forward to all year. But here's the part I actually appreciate. The practical side of my brain kicking in is that my place doesn't have to just sit there empty the whole time I'm away. I can list my space on Airbnb and bring in a little extra income while I'm out getting humbled on a mountain. And with the co-host network, I'm not the one handling all of it.

• 32:14Dave Meyer?

  You can partner with a vetted local co-host who can create your listing, manage reservations, message guests, and even handle the styling. So I get to fully focus on my trip, and my place is still working for me the whole time. Find a co-host at airbnb.com/host.

• 32:35Dave Meyer?

  Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. When we left off, I was going to ask Kathy about actually making an offer on a property and how you do that. Kathy, you talked about visiting a market beforehand, but do you also do that before you make an offer? Do you do it when you get it under contract? Do you do it not at all? What's your strategy to making offers?

• 32:55Speaker 01

  So for me personally, once I've visited the market, once I've chosen my property manager, my, my real estate agent, you know, once I kind of understand the areas in which neighborhoods I want to be in, then I don't mind buying sight unseen because the deal you want may not be there the weekend you're there, you know, it just might not be the, the best deal, or there might not be anything for you. But you understand it well enough and you understand your team well enough. I mean, a little example would be walking into a property management office where they have stacks and stacks of files on every desk. I've seen those. Or you walk into a place where every desk is clean and organized and you know, wow, these people are on top of things. So, once you have that team in place,

• 33:39Speaker 01

  then, oh my gosh, just send me a deal and I'll buy it. I don't need to go through it. I don't need to go through it. You can do enough work, as you know, online to review that property and to underwrite that property. So many ways to really understand that market.

• 33:55Dave Meyer?

  Totally.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Obviously, BiggerPockets has a ton of resources for you, but yeah, no, I, I still have properties that I've never seen.

• 34:03Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, that's funny you say that. I, last year, I bought my first two properties sight unseen. And then just last week, two days ago, I went to go visit them for the first time.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:13Dave Meyer?

  And it was awesome. I was super happy about it because they were exactly what I expected. They weren't better than I expected. They weren't worse than expected.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:21Dave Meyer?

  And that's felt great to me that I was able to accurately evaluate the deal using my agent, using my property manager, and using my own skill as an investor. And it was awesome. And I went there and looked at a bunch of deals that I was considering writing on. And I walked away probably empty handed. There was nothing. I really liked, but I learned more about that market to just only increase my confidence for next time I get sent one that I actually like. I now have better ideas of what tenants like. I have better ideas of what neighborhoods have grown in the last year since I last visited. And so I do think it's important to visit regularly. I like doing that.

• 35:04Dave Meyer?

  But I don't personally think you have to be there for the offer, for the inspection. There's plenty of other information that you can get. If you want to, I think it's fine. Like, I think my recommendation would be if you have that kind of flexibility. And you're particularly nervous, once you get something under contract within the inspection period, you can go fly out. It's probably going to be a short turnaround. But if you want to do that, you can. But having done it sight unseen, you could definitely do it that way, too.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, coming back to what you said, that I want to make sure people hear. You can get a third party inspector, you should, to inspect the property.

• 35:46Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Whether you're there or not, if the property were next door, I'd still get an inspector. I still would have no idea the condition of the property until I got that inspector. So that's just me because I'm not a contractor. I don't know how to fix things. So I need to rely on someone else. They don't need me there. I need them to get their expert eyes on it. Always get an inspection and get as many as you can, you know, because that's your eyes and ears. Then same if you're financing, you're obviously going to be forced to get an appraisal. But I do know a lot of people who pay cash because in some of these areas, the price points are pretty low. Maybe they're doing a 1031 exchange and they can pay cash. And they forget to do what the bank would require, which is these things and this, you know, an appraisal.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Like, why would you not get a third party appraiser to give you the report that you need? It's, you know, four, $500 for hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of investment. You know, you just get those third parties licensed, licensed.

• 36:38Dave Meyer?

  Yes. Yeah. So I'll just walk people through what I do, like the steps, because I think what you mentioned about an appraisal and inspection is super important. The order of operations I've gone through is I get the deals from my agent. I analyze. The ones that sort of like pass the sniff test to me and that are in the parts of town are within my buy box. I do the analysis and then, you know, I have my agent walk the property. That's the next step. I want the agent to go there for me and take videos. Actually, you know, go in there with a phone and take videos. Ideally, if I can orchestrate it, I have the property manager go at the same time. If not, and I still like the deal, I have the property manager go.

• 37:23Dave Meyer?

  And I really like getting those two opinions on the property from the agent and from the property manager. Not because one's wrong or necessarily trying to sell me something I shouldn't be buying, but they just have different perspectives. Like you said, Kathy, like my agent was promoting one in a market that I liked and it probably has great appreciation. And my property manager said, you know what? They just passed this law where there's these new rental licenses and this one's going to have XYZ challenges. And we're going to have longer vacancy while we get this one up to speed. It's not that my agent didn't know it, but he was thinking a little bit more about the value of the property. Where my property manager was thinking about more about the practicality of getting this thing leased quickly.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:05Dave Meyer?

  And I actually still bought the deal, but it was just knowing that and like building those assumptions into my pro forma really helped me sort of think through it. And so I think having both of those people walk through it is great. Then you write the offer and at which point you get the inspection, you get the appraisal, make sure you back it up. So at this point, you're getting three or four different sets of eyes on a deal before you go and buy it. Even if they're not your own eyes, that to me feels like enough, especially if you're buying something that's not a 1910 house that needs a gut rehab, you know? If you're buying something that's, you know, built in the last 50 years and has been maintained relatively well. Three or four sets of eyes feels good enough to me.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you just made such a great point that always have your property manager look at the property before you're out of the contingency period. You can tie up the property, but have, you know, the five or 10 days contingency and have them. Determine if they think they can manage it, if they recommend that and what it would rent for and any issues it might have. Yeah, people sometimes skip that step and they shouldn't.

• 39:11Dave Meyer?

  So then last thing, you know, hopefully you write an offer, you, you can close on a deal. And for me, at least after that, it's pretty easy. Like I arrange for the keys transferred through my agent and my property manager. And depending on whether it's leased up or not, you should have a plan to get it leased up. Or if you're going to do any renovations, you should have a plan to hopefully hit the ground running. But Kathy, do you have any other advice for people? Like, once they actually close on a deal, how to maximize their chances of success in an out of state investment?

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, just be sure to go through your checklist. I know we have a checklist on our side. I'm sure BiggerPockets does too. Sometimes people will close, especially if they're all cash and forget to have the insurance in place or forget, you know, certain things.

• 39:57Dave Meyer?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  You know, have that checklist in front of you. Make sure you've got your insurance in place before you close, right? So little things like that. And then being in communication regularly with your property manager, because some of these companies are growing quickly. Maybe they're not going to give you as much time as you deserve. And you want to make sure they have a portal. This would be one of the questions I ask a property manager is how are you going to communicate with me? And, you know, there's enough great technology today like AppFolio or, you know, there's lots of them out there where you could log in and see what they're doing and how they're marketing and so forth. So making sure that you're in very good contact with, with the property manager.

• 40:37Dave Meyer?

  That's a really good point to set expectations with the property manager too. Cause sometimes people are like, you know, I'll report quarterly or I'll report monthly or I'll report, hopefully not annually. You know, having those expectations is really important. And I think just one last piece of advice, like I literally, you know, this is fresh on my mind because I was just talking to my property manager the other day. And I really feel it's important to set your expectations as the owner as well. Like what you want from them in terms of reporting, but the type of business that you want to run. Cause I was telling him that I'm the type of person who would much rather be proactive and pay for something before it breaks. I would rather fix something before the tenant notices it.

• 41:21Dave Meyer?

  Like, that's just me and my strategy in real estate. And he said, you know, you're really different than a lot of my owners who get really frustrated if I spend $50 without asking them. And I was like, I really glad that I had that conversation with him because you, he was like now understanding where I'm coming from and the type of business I want to run, the type of risk mitigation I want to do for the long-term viability of my investments. And so just having that conversation, now he knows, like, he has a little bit more freedom to think like an owner and to act on my behalf than he would if you don't have that conversation. And he's just going to go on presuming to no fault of his own, that I think like a lot of the other owners.

• 42:03Dave Meyer?

  So I think it's on you to really make sure that you're establishing very clear expectations and regularly checking in with your team to make sure that those expectations are being met.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 42:14Dave Meyer?

  All right. Well, we, we gotta get out of here, Kathy. This was fun, but we are running out of time. But just as a reminder, the things we talked about are narrowing down your list. Again, we have tons of different resources you can look at if you need help figuring out how to pick a market, tons of other ones. But for today's episode, want to highlight the ideas that you need to pick a market. You should go visit and schedule all of those appointments with property managers and with your agents. Then you want to really learn how to underwrite deals in this neighborhood really well. Test off your assumptions, get quotes on everything, learn to underwrite your deals. Have people walk your properties, two or three different sets of eyes before you make an offer. And once you offer, just make sure you have those expectations set with your team for reporting, for operating your business.

• 42:59Dave Meyer?

  And you can do it. It, it sounds hard. I can tell you, it's really not. I've done it and it takes me, I think probably two hours a month to manage these properties. It's absolutely doable and highly encourage people. People to not get discouraged or intimidated by this, but actually just follow these steps and figure out a way that you can make this happen.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 43:16Dave Meyer?

  All right. Well, thank you so much, Kathy. Appreciate you being here today and sharing your expertise with us.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me. It's always fun.

• 43:23Dave Meyer?

  If you have any questions on how to invest out of state, you can always hit me up. You can hit Kathy up. We will put our links to our social media and other contact information. I love talking about this stuff. So if you have any questions, please let me know. If not, we'll see you for another episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast very soon. Thanks for listening.