They Tried To Frame UFO Whistleblower Dylan Borland For Treason

Watch SLEEPING DOG movie here : https://geni.us/SleepingDog In this episode of WEAPONIZED, Jeremy and George go on the road to Oregon’s fabled UFO Fest in McMinnville and introduce a mystery guest to a live audience. For the first time, UFO whistleblower Dylan Borland speaks in detail about his life. Dylan has been through hell since stepping forward to tell what he knows about legacy UFO programs, including his riveting, sworn testimony before Congress in September 2025. What’s it been like for him and other whistleblowers who have revealed what they know? In a nutshell, it’s been miserable. As Borland revealed, he and his wife have struggled financially, had their phones tapped and computers hacked, been under surveillance, and remain under constant threat of possible prosecution… for treason, which carries a possible death sentence. Borland’s already-tenuous situation became worse after he agreed to give testimony to a new team created inside the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, ODNI. That office quietly launched its own UAP investigation last year and sought out whistleblowers, but the investigation was not only skewed from the beginning, it was also under an investigation of its own, as another intelligence agency targeted the witnesses who stepped forward. GOT A TIP? Leave a message for us at +1 (323) 484-4738 Reach out to us at [email protected] ••• SAUCER + WEAPONIZED = https://saucerco.com (you do the math) ••• 🛸 CLIPS : https://YouTube.com/@WeaponizedClips 🤖 MERCH : https://Weaponized-Shop. Fourthwall.com 🕵️ MORE : https://WeaponizedPodcast.com ••• SLEEPING DOG : https://SleepingDogMovie.com ••• FOLLOW JEREMY ON SOCIAL https://x.com/JeremyCorbell https://Instagram.com/JeremyCorbell https://Facebook.com/JeremyCorbell JEREMY'S WEBSITE https://ExtraordinaryBeliefs.com ••• FOLLOW GEORGE ON SOCIAL https://x.com/G_Knapp https://Instagram.com/GeorgeKnapp66 https://Facebook.com/George. Knapp.125 GEORGE'S WEBSITE https://MysteryWire.com ••• *Production by Michael Lazovsky https://MichaelLazovsky.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:27Speaker 01

  For me, UFOs is the backdrop to government corruption and crimes committed against employees and citizens of the United States.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  That there is a UFO program and it's called Rubik's Cube. So a prime investigator, Bodhi and I said to me, "Did Dylan tell you about the pyramid power source? Dylan Borland, this is the craziest thing I heard from ODNI. Did you draw a hieroglyph that you understood was on that pyramid power source?

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Can you tell us if you went to ODNI and drew them an image of not only the pyramid, but a hieroglyph?"

• 1:24George Knapp?

  This is Weaponized. This is Weaponized. I'm George Knapp, relaxing here in Las Vegas after a brief but exciting road trip to McMinnville, Oregon for UFO Fest. Jeremy, that thing is always a kick, isn't it?

• 1:48Speaker 02

  It is just the greatest. I want everybody in Weaponized to celebrate with me. Take 10 seconds, go get yourself something. We're about to celebrate, talk about something. So happy Weaponized, everybody.

• 1:59George Knapp?

  Gatorade, does that count?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:05George Knapp?

  You know, it's that that event is fun. We spoke about it. We're going to share with a weaponized audience what what happened on there because we did break some news, but I would just want to say again how much fun it is. And you know, it's not a bad thing to have fun in UFO world while you're, you know, to go in there. People would dress up like aliens and maybe it's too light and too festive for a lot of the the purists inside the UFO investigation and that it seems too frivolous to have people in costumes and and having fun. But I think it's a great combination. They're right down the middle of, you know, getting the whole community to participate, but also inside the building in the presentations, it gets very serious.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I want to back up. I didn't know people had this weird thing where like you can't go and support a gigantic town where people come from all around the world to listen to speakers to have fun. They bring their pets. I met a couple that had brought their pup from Germany, the cutest little doggy, and it was so beautiful and fun. And the other thing is the people. It's not like everybody comes up to you and they're like, I was abducted and here's a bunch of papers. They're like, hey, man, what's going on? Big hug. I mean, I must have shook 3,000 hands. I fist bumped all the kids

• 3:32Speaker 02

  in the line when I was had the golf cart and their infinite wisdom again with the parade. It is the most joyous thing that I do when it comes to investigating and doing journalism and UFOs. It is so fun. So if anybody ever, I'm inviting the entire world to next year, even though I don't know if I'm invited back after going to jail.

• 3:55George Knapp?

  Yeah, you know, the only one I could think of that's like that, that's on a par with McMinnville, is Phenomicon in Vernal, which has risen over the last couple of years. I've been there a couple of times, a lot of fun, again, same kind of an atmosphere, fun outside and then very serious presentations inside, and it's a good mix, you know. I haven't been to the Roswell Festival, UFO Fest, but one of these days, we're gonna have to drag ourselves there. But this year was, we were invited to speak, and we saw it as an opportunity to get into something serious that has really been on our mind for several months now. And that is a prior investigation under the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. We haven't been able to reveal much of that publicly,

• 4:38George Knapp?

  and didn't know if we were ever going to release it publicly. But this got going last fall. You and I were invited to meet with some ODNI personnel. And this effort was initiated by Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, to get to the bottom of UFO legacy programs. So look into UFO legacy programs and see if there's any meat on the bone. Are there crash saucers? Are there alien bodies? If so, who's got them and how are they hiding them? And we were excited. I mean, we were excited, right?

• 5:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I thought like we had talked about this publicly, but I guess that on Oregon was probably the first time we really... No, no, we talked about it with Matthew Brown in that episode, that this had occurred. But this was an outstandingly new kind of insight into that experience. But just to recap it, oh, absolutely. Look, when United States of America says, "We're gonna protect whistleblowers", we saw everybody at Congress. Some of them were there. And they're like, "Can you help get them to come in? We will give them whistleblower protections. We just wanna know the details of what they saw. They're totally protected. They can tell us anything. We have every authority under God and the country."

• 5:55Speaker 02

  And you and I are like, "Oh, hell, yeah. Finally, these whistleblowers, they get some help." Now, you and I were cautiously optimistic because, you know, spooks. We're like always, you know, people trying to entrap us and all this stuff, fake information. But I felt like you, I was like, "Let's fucking go." And so I kinda made the pitch to a ton of people and directly connected... Prime investigators in ODNI on the phone, on signal to a bunch of names that you know, people that have raised their hand and testified, people that haven't as well, and people that are unknown to the public as well as known to the public.

• 6:36Speaker 02

  And wow, we really, really found out right during the, the second premiere of Sleep and Dog, actually, it was, I was behind stage when we were texting, we really found out something. A CIA employee raises his hand under oath in Congress and says that the whistleblowers were being tapped, who's also saying that ODNI was being spied on by CIA. Now we know for sure that all the whistleblowers that went in were being monitored when they're supposed to be protected illegally by the CIA. It was affirmed by a CIA agent himself who testified. That didn't blow my mind. It was confirmation. Got a call from everybody that testified ODNI.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  And we're like, we, we knew it. We knew it. So we knew it the whole time, but there's confirmation. Does everybody know what I'm talking about? Play the clip, Michael.

• 7:30Speaker 04

  I am a career CIA operations officer, and as you mentioned, I was on joint duty assignment at the Office of Director National Intelligence Directors Initiatives Group, or the DIG, between March 2025 and April 2026. I was responsible for leading the DIG's investigation into COVID origins, anomalous health incidents, and unidentified anomalous phenomena.

• 8:00Speaker 04

  I'm here today to discuss the COVID cover-up, the national security implications associated with the DIG's investigative findings, and CIA refusal to comply with lawful oversight, as well as how we remedy these problems.

• 8:16Speaker 04

  The CIA illegally monitored the computer and phone usage of DIG personnel, their investigations, and contact with whistleblowers. These were Americans being spied upon illegally while executing duties directed by the president and under the authority of the Director National Intelligence. You must be willing to pull the purse strings, and if necessary, convene another Church Committee. The results of our

• 8:48Speaker 04

  The results of our investigation would have been impossible without whistleblowers willing to come forward. They are indispensable agents for reform.

• 9:03George Knapp?

  I recall seeing that clip and send it to you immediately and to try to figure it out. What the heck? How is this happening here? And what are the consequences for CIA? And we saw a CIA response posted shortly after that testimony was made public, sworn testimony from this guy Erdman to a Senate committee. And the CIA's haughty response was unbelievable. They just said, hey, basically, US Congress, US Senate, you don't have the right to question whatever our guys call a witness without going through protocols and letting us know before you do it. Instead of saying anything at all about the contents that we, the CIA, had been spying

• 9:46George Knapp?

  on ODNI, which is our parent organization. CIA reports to the Office of Director of National Intelligence. They're supposed to all be under the umbrella of Tulsi Gabbard's organization there. And here they are, not answering the questions about, did they spy on the agency, on its investigators, on the whistleblowers they have brought forward for a variety of topics, not just UAP, but for the psychic warfare programs, the MKUltra, and some other stuff, sneaky stuff.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  COVID cover up, it was anomalous health, you know, and it was anomalous health effects, and it was UAP.

• 10:23George Knapp?

  Right. I mean, it's pretty outrageous, and they didn't bother to answer it. And I know there have been some developments since then, since the story broke late last week. I think some of our friends in Congress have gone over there to have a little chat, and maybe we'll get into that at some other point. But, man, what a story. And, you know, you and I, as we share in this upcoming recording that we're going to let our viewers and listeners take a look at... You know, we, we went into it not blind and not, not naive. We were cautious because, you know, we've been down this road before and the idea that ODNI would use all of its resources and the people we talked to told me they can go anywhere. They can see anything. They have the clearances to go anywhere they need to go to find the

• 11:06George Knapp?

  legacy programs. We're thinking, damn, that, that sounds pretty good. So I, I know in that first meeting, we did give them some names, but it's the names of people that they should be pretty obvious that they should talk to, names that are public.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  We're giving underhanded pitches at first to make sure that they, like, you know, we don't got Lou Elizano's number, can't get a hold of him. What about David Grush? Can't get a hold of them. What about Matt Brown? What about Dylan Borland? What about Senior Chief Wiggins? Whoever they asked for that testified, that's an underhand pitch. You're like, no problem publicly listed. What do you mean you can't get a hold of them? I'll connect you on Signal. I mean, it was like testing the waters in my eyes to see how far we can trust the, the investigation. We wanted to trust it. Look, I, I will say this is that, first of all, shout out to UAP James because he goes online and he cuts these like super cuts, these really important clips of all these different things. That's how I saw this testimony in Congress. I would have missed it. It was

• 12:03Speaker 02

  UAP James, shout out, dude, you do good cuts. So that's how I saw it.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  This is the second whistleblower that has told us on camera to the public

• 12:18Speaker 02

  that the ODNI oper- ODNI operation where they're supposed to be protected, not just spied on by CIA. Okay, CIA spies on ODNI. Who cares? I mean, you should care. They spy on the whistleblowers who are supposed to be protected. That is why they came in to talk with them. We were given assurances. So this is the second whistleblower that we've brought public now. They went through the ODNI process and told us not only were they trying, were they lying about them, like they lied about Matt Brown, but also they told me and you, and we talked about it, that they tried to entrap them for treason.

• 13:00George Knapp?

  Yeah, it's it's pretty underhanded and it's equally confusing. The guy who testified before Congress was the head of DIG. That's this, the Director's Initiative. He was the guy in charge of looking at all of these various sensitive topics on behalf of Tulsi Gambard and ODNI. So he's in charge of it. He's a former CIA guy himself, a longtime CIA guy, and he's there telling the Senate that the CIA, his longtime employer, was spying on him, on the organization inside the new setup, this thing called DIG, which was, that was the first time we heard that term, was the day that we met with them, the day

• 13:38George Knapp?

  after the Senate, um, excuse me, the Congressional testimony in the House last September. So, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's very complicated. If the CIA has people inside ODNI already, former CIA guys working for ODNI, still reporting back to CIA, and then outside CIA is also spying on the whole operation. I mean, you know, it kind of blows your mind. We did share this story with the, the audience in McMinnville, um, at the, this UFO Fest, and I don't know, did we go to the tape?

• 14:13Speaker 02

  I, I say let's watch it, but I want to break something down with you after. I've got like five things I wrote down as you're talking that we got to hit. So let's watch the entire public McMinniman's McMinnville UFO Fest with Dylan Borland. And we did not announce beforehand that he was going to be the whistleblower that is the first time speaking publicly rather than under oath, other than weaponized, right, in a public setting, first time. So I'm sure it had to be nerve wracking for him, but I want to talk to you about what happened before and after that. So let's play the tape and you and I come back.

• 14:49George Knapp?

  So unfortunately, it falls to me to deliver some uncomfortable news here. Um, you ever get the feeling that you're, you're living in a simulated reality, you know, some days seem more real than others? And, and you wonder, is this all real or not? And I feel that way every time I, I come to this event for some reasons I'm going to explain. I mean, Is our life, is my life, the result of some pimply-faced, super-alien teenager in some parallel dimension? Or, you know, something like that, a higher dimension, an alternate reality? I wonder about it sometimes. And unfortunately, I think it's true. And what that means is that, in particular, this simulation here tonight is mine, which

• 15:33George Knapp?

  means that all of you are bit players in my simulated reality. It all evens out, though, because you all have your own simulated realities, and I'm just a bit character in those, so, you know, it kind of balances out a little bit. And the reason I think about this, that it's a simulated reality here, is because of the synchronicities and weird coincidences involving my life and our host, McMinimans. I think the universe is trying to give us a little clue about what my reality is all about, and Jeremy and I are always happy to be here, and always happy to participate in something that's produced by McMinimans, because of the similarities that we share.

• 16:15George Knapp?

  Number one being, they produce a lot of beer, yeah. They brew their own beer, and they dispense it in their own taverns, and I happen to like beer and taverns. And they grow their own grapes, and they produce these premium wines. Wine, yeah, I'm good with that, too. They roast their own coffee beans, and produce their own coffees, really high-quality stuff. I drink about three quarts of it a day, on a typical day. The fourth similarity is cats. I don't know if you've been through their gift shops, or seen the T-shirts and coffee mugs, and they've got cats all over the place. We were just introduced by a guy who's got a gigantic alien cat on his shirt, and I

• 16:57George Knapp?

  happen to, you know, have a lot of love for cats. I am owned by six of them at the present time. Six rescued cats that run things in our home, my wife and I rescue cats, and so I think that that similarity is pretty interesting as well. The fifth one is... They save and restore and repurpose old buildings. And it's something that I have done in my professional life and personal life in Las Vegas, dedicating myself to help out saving buildings that would otherwise be torn down for some new casino. And of course, as an old guy who could use some restoration myself, I mean, I relate to that whole thing. And then, of course, the last similarity, UFOs.

• 17:40George Knapp?

  They produce, McMinniman's produces the best UFO conference in the world. I mean, I've been to them all over the planet. This is the best by far. I mean, all of you folks take it seriously, but you also still know how to have fun. You're not crazy. You don't spend every waking moment of your life digging into UFOs, or do you? Yes. Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, you know, so we got beer, wine, coffee, cats, old buildings, and UFOs. I mean, it suggests to me that this simulation is designed for me. And I'm okay with it, you know? I'm okay with it. It's not just a bunch of coincidences.

• 18:24George Knapp?

  I keep telling myself, though, every year that I come back to this event, I keep pitching it, and McMinniman's doesn't seem to pitch up, catch up on it, is that, look, I, you know, I'm interested in all this stuff that you guys are into. I'm young and hungry. I'd work for intern wages. Why don't I get hired? It's just, it's not scripted in my simulation, so it's not gonna work out. The last similarity, though, is a little bit more serious. Jeremy and I have been talking about what kind of presentation we would do here tonight for months. And we had something definite in mind, to talk about whistleblowers. You know, our work, whatever we do, is so dependent on whistleblowers. The information that comes our way is from whistleblowers. Most of them do not go public in any way.

• 19:07George Knapp?

  They help us find things that other people can't find and bring truth to folks like you here. And on Weaponized and other platforms at our disposal, they put everything at risk. I mean, they put their lives at risk to bring us a little closer to, I won't say capital D disclosure, because we're not anywhere near that, but at least closer to truth, closer to transparency. They risk their careers, their livelihoods, their families, their lives in many cases. So, you know, we were planning on talking about whistleblowers and one whistleblower in particular. Two days ago, kaboom, something drops on Capitol Hill. This witness comes forward, James Erdman III, who had worked as a career officer at CIA,

• 19:50George Knapp?

  who had gone to work for ODNI, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, ODNI. Tulsi Gabbard is the person that holds that job. And he says, "I went over to ODNI. I was put in charge of something called DIG, the Directors Initiative Group. They launched a series of very quiet, confidential investigations into very serious topics a couple, well, it's not even a year ago, and kept it very quiet. One of those topics was the origins of COVID, and that's what he was called to testify about. One was about JFK, the murder of the president. One was about, I think, it's not Havana Syndrome, it was...

• 20:26Speaker 02

  It was anomalous...

• 20:28George Knapp?

  Yeah, yeah, you know, some very, MKUltra was one. And lastly, it was UAP. Now, we happen to know about that UAP investigation, because Jeremy and I, and we're going to get into that, he's going to share some details with you, we're the first people that called in about it. And what happened was outrageous, outrageous and illegal. This guy testified under oath before the Senate that CIA, which is under ODNI, ODNI is its boss, CIA reports to ODNI, that while these whistleblowers had come in to share information, putting their lives, their careers, at risk to share information because their government asked them to do so, had been spied upon, their phones were tapped, their

• 21:12George Knapp?

  computers were hacked. The CIA was not doing this to help the investigation, they were doing it to collect dirt on these people, completely violating any confidentiality pledges that had been given, privacy pledges, and ignoring that they were investigating, spying on their own boss organization. That's what he testified to. And so, that is quite an amazing synchronicity, leading up to what Jeremy and I had talked about presenting here today. So I'm going to give it, turn it over to you, from here on.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  What's up, McManville? How you doing? Yeah. Yeah.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  What a cool moment this is. George's middle name is motherfucking, so George motherfucking Knapp is in the house. Man.

• 21:59George Knapp?

  My birth certificate.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It took a little, it's like moving the nuclear football. Every once in a while, I gotta change shit around to get him here. Man, I'm so grateful George is here. I couldn't do this, I wouldn't want to do this without him. So this is really neat. We all get to hang out. There's breaking news. Tonight is about transparency. And I didn't know how far we're gonna be able to go. And I didn't know how this night was gonna go down. You're in for a treat. Tonight is really, do you have a guess who's here?

• 22:29Speaker 02

  I, they literally have no idea. This is a, this is a, we kept a secret. Can we keep secrets? I guess we can. Part, part of telling secrets is keeping secrets. But, you know, look, I'm, I'm gonna get to brass tacks right now. When I met George Knapp, he had one cat and thought I was CIA. Now he has six cats and thinks I'm ONI.

• 22:52George Knapp?

  They told me.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  My wife made a piece of artwork that he is sure is spying on him because it makes sound at night. So, just wanted to level with you before we get started. George and I have had a good run. The only reason why we're doing this is because of you. Because I am like you. When we're, we're, we're standing up here, we're talking about this. I am curious as fuck. It's a sickness. I am disturbed. I am weaponized. I am weaponized. I want to know. I want to know the truth. And I don't know the full truth. But what I do know is that along my journey, I have been lost. And sometimes people anchor you. And George anchored me. And I hope that we can anchor you a little bit into where the fuck this is going.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  So. So McMinnville, just real quick, real quick McMinnville. Round of applause for existing on planet Earth right now. Let's go.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  So I don't want to waste any of your time. I want to get deep into this. We have a special guest tonight. This individual, have any of you watched the movie Sleeping Dog yet? Yeah. So that was like a half-assed thing. So those of you that haven't, this is a movie about Georges and my reporting. This kid, Michael Lazzowski. I gave him 20 years of my footage because I said, "I'm not making all these movies. Go make five UFO movies." And then he saw what happening to me and George. And he turned the cameras around and I was very resistant. It's a very personal movie. Like I don't, it doesn't feel good to watch it for me or my mom or my family. But at the same time, it tells the truth.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  And we provoked something with this film. If you've been paying attention, it's provoked something. Now, in this film, you hear somebody and you hear a conversation that you are not supposed to hear because, by the way, I just want to be real clear with everybody. I've recorded every single conversation that I have ever had since 2011 with federal officers. Everybody, go ahead, come after me. I've done it. That is my protocol. I have recorded these conversations and one of those people I recorded with you here in the film. And he is, it's a hard moment for him.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  But then you see him standing up with his hand in Congress and his name is Dylan Borland. Let me tell you something about Dylan Borland real quick. Dylan Borland served our country for 15 years. He was an all-source analyst. He worked for agencies I'm not legally allowed to name. Right? And also, the products that he created were put to a bunch of intelligence agencies, including directly to the president through numerous administrations. This is a guy that our government trusted with the secrets of America.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  And he broke from the fold, he said something you need to know, this is disturbing. Now you be the judge, but he's my friend, and the one thing I know about Dylan Borland is that he's honest as fuck. So here we go, we're gonna tell you some shit tonight, we're gonna see where it lands, but we're gonna tell you stuff you've never heard before. So it's time, I want, I want you guys to give a round of applause for mine and George's friend, a guy that I really admire, and his name is Dylan Borland.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Is this working?

• 26:56Speaker 02

  It's working. I don't know if this disclosure's working, but your microphone is working.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Well, I appreciate all the jokes. Uh, George, you know, we go adopted a kitten, so my wife and I are big fans. You guys got me chugging water back there, like at the hearing. I drank all George's water there. Oh, I gotta hold this up higher. My bad.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Mic to the mouth, as Rogan told me, mic to the mouth.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's a, thank you guys, thank you all for being here. Uh, awesome. I'm gonna be a little nervous, I'm an introvert, I live in the woods, so this is, uh, wild to me. But, uh, no, it's a pleasure, thank you to McMiniman, thank you to the town, thank you to the two other speakers today, Matthew and Kelly, thank you to everybody. Um, long road to get here, uh, we all know Nick Pope, uh, Dr. Thigpen passed away. He's dead. Absolutely, and, uh, I never met Airman Sullivan, but that has been in the news, and he, I know Dave, love Dave, and Dave really cared about him, so. Matthew Sullivan. Um, so, also him, so, thank you guys for what you do, cuz this wouldn't happen without

• 27:59Speaker 01

  these two next to us, forty years almost, George with Bob, and, uh, what's happening? So, thank you.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  We gotta go through how we know Dylan, let's start.

• 28:09George Knapp?

  We had a code name for him. Jeremy had been talking to him for a while. We went back to Washington to do some skullduggery and the last thing we were going to do on that trip was to meet with Dylan. Didn't, I didn't know his name at that point. And we arranged a meeting outside of DC, in a, outside of the district, in a state nearby. We're going to meet in a public park. We drive down there, I'm wondering what the day holds. I knew from conversations Jeremy and I had had, basically, what his story was. So I was really looking forward to it. We pull into this public park. It's early in the morning. There's nobody there, except us, and then this black Jeep, sitting right next to where we were supposed

• 28:52George Knapp?

  to meet. I look at this Jeep, I think, this is, seems out of place. There's no person here. There's just this Jeep. And I was suspicious enough, and I said, hey, let's go somewhere else. This doesn't feel right. This is a bad vibe. We drive a ways. We didn't have a destination in mind. We end up going to this little restaurant, on a side street, and parked around the block from it, on another side street. And we go in, and we have a very detailed conversation. We come out, an hour and a half later, there's that goddamn black Jeep, sitting right up against our bumper. It was like, very, it was, it was like an announcement. Yeah, we're watching. Yeah, we're there. It was completely out of place, and somehow they had found

• 29:34George Knapp?

  us. Same Jeep, that they were watching us. But Jeremy, you had had a meeting with Dylan before, and the same thing had happened, a different vehicle showed up.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was a, I'd like to hear Dylan, we've never been able to publicly talk about this, even privately talk about this. But it was a, it's always a stressful situation, when you got somebody coming to you, saying, "I'm going to officially come forward. Can you protect me?" And it's like, "Yeah, totally." Like, "Fuck!" But, but I think we have a protocol, as you hear in Sleeping Dog, that Chuck McCullough is Minding George's lawyer. He's the first ICIG in, in American history. The guy worked 13 years NSA, nine years FBI, he knows a thing or two. So, basically, when I met with Dylan...

• 30:23Speaker 02

  We didn't trust each other. He didn't trust me. I didn't trust him. He trusted me enough to come to me, but damn, we're in this park and this car pulls up and it just parks with blacked out windows and sits there. And it was the closest parking spot and we're like, what the fuck? And I'm like, what you got to tell me? And, and that's the thing is, is Dylan is so careful to not reveal anything classified. He'll say a bunch like, um, I can't confirm or deny, right? He'll say that. And that, that's because we don't know the legal situation right now with, with the case, with Dylan's case. So George, you asked me, what was that experience like? Man, I was sweating bullets trying to make him comfortable. You, you tell me what that was like.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, uh, I remember that. I actually, we had talked about in the Weaponized interview and I remember I was driving that old busted Buick and I picked you up in it. Luckily, a friend of ours, a mutual friend had, uh, given us, given me reassurances. So it was kind of more of a like, look, I've kind of got into this situation. Um, here I am. Uh, I don't trust what's happening due to what had happened in that whole thing. And, uh, yeah, we're sitting there and I'm going through way too much nicotine and, uh, we're in a park and we're going through, uh, Langley Air Force Base and touching on a little bit of stuff.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Dylan has never crossed the line with me because we always assumed that we were being monitored by the CIA.

• 31:57George Knapp?

  And now we know, for sure.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  And now we know for sure since yesterday, that blew my mind. So he's been so straight and people have tried to play him out as somebody who wasn't, uh, being honest to me within the intelligence agencies. And I've come to find out they're the fucking liars.

• 32:14George Knapp?

  We're going to get into that, uh, in great detail in a little bit. First to sort of set the stage with Dylan and with other whistleblowers. You know, in UFO world, you have all kinds of people who offer uninformed opinions about what whistleblowers should do. Come forward, spill your guts, tell everything you know, they wouldn't dare prosecute you and, and we'll have your back. Well, the reality is a lot different. So I thought maybe Dylan could start by telling us what his life has been like, the consequences for him stepping forward, testifying under oath to Congress and sharing information with Jeremy and I.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna talk, I wanna think about this because I also wanna keep people safe. I mean, you understand the situation I'm still in, so, you know, it was wonderful, I'm glad I did it. We see that Congress is moving forward, we see the executive branch is at least playing ball. You know, thank God Dave and Lou and all the hearings and your guys' hard work and everybody else covering this and people that are into this, you guys. But since I went, I mean, I'm gonna be careful, you know, my address was doxxed, people put pictures of the inside of my house, some very personal things with family and friends.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  You know, I won't get into specifics, but you have certain videos and text messages that I have saved and sent to you about very, I take it as a threat, we call it a perceived threat, to be fair.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I always say there's perceived threat, cuz I went through that. If you watch Sleeping Dog, like, I went through a time, I don't know if it's perceived threat or a real threat, but it still feels like a threat. And so, I don't wanna diminish it by saying perceived threat, he's had some things he's not gonna say tonight, they're real threats.

• 33:57George Knapp?

  What about real consequences that are, you know, that you can talk about? Your job, do you still work for the federal government? Do you work for an intelligence agency? Do you have a clearance?

• 34:05Speaker 01

  So, I do not work for any government agency. I am currently living my best life off savings and frugally living my best life.

• 34:15George Knapp?

  Your clearance is gone, right?

• 34:18Speaker 01

  So, I don't know. So, my clearance was valid when I went to DNI and I had all my tickets and my polygraph, everything was good then. I have not put in a request to figure out if my clearance is still valid. I would assume it is, though. I would assume unless they did an admin withdrawal, which goes back to what BAE had did to me years ago, which is, for those of you don't know, it's basically like a, it's a bureaucratic way to force somebody to have their clearance withdrawn. So, you don't lose it, it just doesn't exist.

• 34:48George Knapp?

  Are you employed?

• 34:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 34:50George Knapp?

  Have you tried to find employment?

• 34:51Speaker 01

  I have.

• 34:52George Knapp?

  Will you ever be able to work for a government agency again?

• 34:55Speaker 01

  I don't know the answer to it, I highly doubt it.

• 34:57George Knapp?

  Have you applied?

• 34:58Speaker 01

  I, kind of. I'll say, look, to be, go be a park ranger up here, I mean, this is a beautiful place, I'd be a park ranger, I'll take you guys out, you know? He'd be the most fun park ranger on

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Planet Earth, but I think-

• 35:12George Knapp?

  Hey, McMinwens is about to hire me, so I'll get you in.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Thank you, I need it.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  I think what George is getting at is, so what people don't understand, when people come to me and George and they're like, "We have something we want to say, and can we say it?" I said, "Do you want to say it in front of Congress?" So it's like, maybe two and a half months that I had like, national security people vetting Dylan to be able to testify, right? By the way, not the time he testified, like before too, they had the option. And a bunch of people never make it. A bunch of people never make it to testify. And that's not like, I would put him out right away. So here's the deal. When he says

• 35:55Speaker 02

  he doesn't have the job, people rely on their clearances to get jobs. Like David Grush is an anomaly. I fucking love David Grush. Shout out to David Grush, give him a hand of applause. Yeah. Man, I think him, Burchett, and Luna got balls the size of church bells. So here's the deal. David Grush is like, an anomaly. He got hired back into government after being a whistleblower. When in history has that happened? Someone like Dylan, he knows when he raises his hand and does that, it is over. Matthew Brown, it is over. And that is their career. The idea that they could continue with certain clearances. So Dylan has, and

• 36:37Speaker 02

  his amazing wife, who, the incredible couple, right? It's been hard for them. So Dylan was like, "Can I say what you were applying for?"

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, go for it.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like, he's applying to go to like, work at Home Depot and work at a bank. He's trying to figure out how to make a living for his life. That's the reality. So can you imagine when people come forward to me and George and we're like, "Oh yeah, great idea. You'll have no career." So people like Dylan, they decide to tell you the truth is more important than my typical, everyday career I've been working on for seven, 15 years for Dylan. Do you understand?

• 37:24George Knapp?

  Can you imagine the manager at Home Depot looking at your resume? "Oh, you reported to the president, is that right?"

• 37:32Speaker 01

  I mean, I can tell you firsthand. You know, it's a joke. Matt and I have talked about it. Dave, Herrera, we all kind of loosely know each other by now, you know. I think we're all looking out for each other, really trying to help each other, help their spouses, kids. I mean, this takes a toll on people. But, yeah, what you just said, you know, usually, most people that work a normal job, you know, Walmart, take a look at and they go, "You're either schizophrenic or you are way too qualified and you are not getting hired."

• 38:05George Knapp?

  Did they try to make you, at one point, seem crazy? I mean, I don't know if you can share that?

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, we talked about it in the second interview. We talked about it.

• 38:12George Knapp?

  For this audience a little bit.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, this goes right back to like the whole thing with, I'll be respectful. We had talked about this before. The problem is, is that these agencies, which we now know, and you just talked about it. So you have CIA working for DIG, you have CIA, they're called NOX, unofficial cover, they work in all assets of life. Banks, carpentry, chefs, chef is another famous one. But, these positions, basically, you have people embedded, and with this subject, some people are read in, some aren't, and some people know what they're looking for and some don't.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  But, you get in this situation where, basically, once you bump up against a wall, you're kind of stuck. So, it's, how do I want to word this? It's, it's difficult to explain. I, it's difficult to explain.

• 39:12George Knapp?

  You had doctors at the VA?

• 39:14Speaker 01

  I did.

• 39:15George Knapp?

  Who were you sent in?

• 39:16Speaker 01

  She, the doctor at the VA was a CIA doctor, a CIA employee, worked...

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Worked at the CIA and knew quite a lot about my career personally and name people that I worked with.

• 39:31George Knapp?

  So did she think you were perfectly balanced, give you a thumbs up to go back to work?

• 39:35Speaker 01

  So officially, yes, because again, I was working, I had my officially had my clearances to work, but I couldn't get another job. But medically, in the medical record system, that is still a headache, you're aware of, is a different story what is being, what is being said for documentation to have to be used against me and others. So similar thing with David Grush.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  I just want to interrupt for one second. So this is a really deep story. It's been years of us unpacking it. It's been me vetting Dylan, what he said, George and me finding out what's going on. There's too much to unpack tonight about what has been done to Dylan behind the scenes. But just like Matthew Brown, David Grush, Lula Lazzondo, Jay Stratton, all these guys, there's an operation behind to dismiss them. But I want to get to brass tacks with you. There's a reason why Dylan came forward. And I have specific knowledge I'm going to talk to you about tonight. I don't know if Dylan can confirm some of this. We're going to ask him in real time, so let's see what happens.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  But the bottom line is UFOs, right? Non-human intelligence, craft, reverse engineering. What does Dylan know? Why did he feel compelled to throw away his career to tell you something? Were they threatening before he decided to talk? Or did he decide to talk and then he got threats? Well, I know, I'm just going to speak about you like you're not here. I know their life. It was years of me being able to trust him. Dylan is telling you like it is. Why we had him testify. Not only did he have a personal experience on a base with what we would consider a UAP, although we're wondering if it was reverse engineered by the United States military, but there's something else.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  And that's something else we're going to talk about tonight because you did not hear him testify about it in front of Congress. So tonight, for the first time, we're going to talk about that. So let's get to brass tacks. Let's start very simply. You were on a base, official capacity. You were an all-source analyst. You were working at night. You went out for a cigarette break. I think this audience wants to know, what did you see exactly?

• 41:59Speaker 01

  So one correction, I was a geospatial analyst at that time. Yeah, as I testified to, I was in there smoking a cigarette and a light pops up near the NASA hangar. I can't tell you if it was in it, I can't tell you if it was landed next to it, I can't tell you if the light was just off. I see a light pop up from the hangar, about 100, 100, about 50, 100 feet. Pops up, stops, finish my cigarette, start walking up to it to go walk around the track. Light flies right to me, stops 50, 100 feet in front of me, and as I said, I can't tell you if it was active camouflage, I can't tell you if it manifested, but a approximately 100-foot triangle, equilateral triangle, about one to two stories thick, stops right

• 42:43Speaker 01

  above me, cellphone gets hot, completely freezes, static electricity, and it had this gold lava-like fluid, I can still see it, and it's just hovering there for about three minutes. The center light flashes, it was a white light. The center light was about two to three times bigger than the corner lights. The center light flashes and just takes off. I estimate commercial jet level, I can't confirm it, but shoot straight up, stops, I get my cellphone reset, and as I'm resetting my cellphone, I can smell a thunderstorm. What smells like?

• 43:19Speaker 01

  A thunderstorm. Ionization. Yes, that is the term that is commonly known in the IC for it. Jeremy said ionization. And it gets up there and I'm trying to take a picture of him like, nobody's ever gonna believe this. I was on my phone with a buddy of mine who's a federal government employee at the time and I get him back on, I'm like, you're never gonna believe this. And it just hovers there and then it starts to go right over the Atlantic Ocean and if I didn't watch it do it, it would have looked like a satellite. It would have looked identical to just a slow-moving satellite starting to go over there.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  But it had instantaneous acceleration shot up to the sky?

• 43:55Speaker 01

  In my estimation, commercial jet level in seconds.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  But this is not why Dylan Borland is a whistleblower. What people don't know is what he said behind the scenes to all government agencies, including Arrow, ODNI, and his big thing was to the ICIG. Do you know what ICIG is? Yeah. Okay, inspector general is like the police. The ICIG is the intelligence community inspector general. Took me a while to figure that out. So basically, it's like the police of the intelligence agency. So if you don't want another MKUltra in America and people running out of control and spying on you as American citizens, you'd have a police. The first ever in history was Chuck McCullough. Look it up. He's the first ICIG in human history. I don't remember the guy's name right now. It's Chris something, but anyway, here's the deal.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  They're supposed to be the police of the intelligence community. So when Dylan Borland comes forward, he's not talking about this craft necessarily. There's something else that he's talking about that he's telling the ICIG in a filmed interview and he's drawing them pictures and we're gonna get there in a second. But, hey man, do you think that was ours, what you saw? Because George and I really hope it was ours, USA.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  I, uh, let me think about how to answer this very carefully.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  So you had a friend on, a friend of mine that I met after me who had seen something similar in Florida.

• 45:24Speaker 02

  Who are you talking about?

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Dan.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Dan who?

• 45:28Speaker 01

  We're good.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  No, he was, was he on my podcast?

• 45:31Speaker 01

  He was.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  George, he was on our podcast. So you guys, there was somebody else that saw one of these triangle craft.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  So the reason I-

• 45:39Speaker 02

  The Weaponized episode.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  The reason I bring it up is I want to be really careful and clear on this.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  Galkarel, by the way, if Dylan's forgetting, Dan Galkarel, Daniel Galkarel, watch that episode.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  I try to be polite with people.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Hey, he's on We-

• 45:53Speaker 01

  I know.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  He's on Weaponized.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  I, uh, I happen to know the one I saw at Langley Air Force Base was not ours.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  How?

• 46:04Speaker 01

  As we discussed, based off of Classification Guidance with Arrow, who was mandated, because they did not, it's called Original Classification Authority. So what that means is agencies in different jobs in the IC have the authority to classify information at the level they determine. Arrow did not have that. Tim Phillips, in his interview with Chris Sharp, and you both talked with Chris about this, Tim Phillips acknowledged he did not have it. So Arrow had to go to the agencies when whistleblowers came forward, and agencies would report to Arrow what the classification of what we are testifying to at Arrow is.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  Arrow classified certain things, but Arrow did not classify that triangle, and if it was ours, they would have classified it as they did with other things related.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Oh shit, I'm just realizing something. I'm a slow, I'm like a caveman, so you, so in your assessment, because of the classification process, that triangle you saw that day over or near the NASA hangar, where's my gold when we need him? Was not ours, meaning United States.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  I am ninety-nine point nine-nine-nine-nine-nine percent sure. There's other things with it that are classified that it did do.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  That. Whose was it then, China, Russia, whose was it?

• 47:28Speaker 01

  I, my opinion, none of the above.

• 47:34George Knapp?

  Can you sort of bring us up to date on, okay, you're on a base, you see an unknown craft. A lot of service members have done that, intelligence people have done that. It didn't get them in trouble, didn't get them in a position where you are. What is it that led you to be on the wrong side of the law, kind of a thing with these IC folks? What, what got you in trouble? Is it learning other things, other than just seeing that craft? Or learning inside information about what we would call legacy programs?

• 48:01Speaker 01

  I, I think it's a combination of both. I, I think the problem was is that I, I, I had talked about this and a friend of mine, one of my tech sergeants had heard me talking about it and he was like, hey, you probably don't want to say that. But when I had stumbled my way into BAE Systems after I finished my master's degree, there were people there that were well informed of this subject, what people would call legacy program employees and heard me talking about this and some other things. And they had assumed that I was read in because of what I was saying about how to hide these things in private companies, having seen the triangle, having done X, Y, Z.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  And because of that and because people thought I was speaking about a special access program out of school, kind of had a little hit out on me.

• 48:53George Knapp?

  So you're talking about hiding things within aerospace companies. You yourself were hidden inside a aerospace company. You're working for a government agency, but you're reporting to work at a private company, a big private company every day, right?

• 49:06Speaker 01

  That is fair to say, yes.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Dylan has certain restrictions. I just got on a call today with Chuck McCullough, who's our, George is my federal lawyer. And we're like, hey, we got to protect him. He's about to talk publicly. What, for the first time outside of Congress, Dylan Borland is here with you. So this is like a Wild West situation.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  So our job, George and me, we've promised, George taught me from day one, George said, protect sources, or witnesses, or whistleblowers, especially if they don't protect themselves. So we have to be a little bit gentle here. You can't completely tell us what agencies, intelligence agencies you work for. You can't tell us?

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Again, so to clarify, going right back to Congress, I still haven't gone through DoPsR. Everything I have said is completely non-approved. I am speaking at will of myself and not on behalf of any agency, or the United States Air Force, DOD, D W. Everything I am talking about, I have never been approved to speak.

• 50:11George Knapp?

  DoPsR is a process where, say a witness, or say you've been an intelligence guy, worked for CIA or something, you want to write a book. You have to submit that to a process. Any agency which has information and programs or assets that are mentioned in that book, you have to go through the DoPsR process. And all of them get to take a shot at what you write, what you say. You're not writing a book, but you are being careful about what you can say in public.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think this is, this goes back to the other whistleblowers. Most of them have gone through some form of approval. I have been playing this so safe that even if I get into a space, which goes back to the Weaponized interview, where we were redacting things that are publicly known, but I don't want to put people in danger, and I don't have approval. But that is correct. You are supposed to, anything that might broach that subject, or your time in the government, you are supposed to get approval.

• 51:05George Knapp?

  Did you have to do that, to appear before Congress?

• 51:07Speaker 01

  I thought I did, but we did not have time. I was given six days' notice.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, let me talk about that, because I set that up. So first of all, like someone like Matt Brown, he used the State Department to get through the DoPsR process. Dr. James Lekatsky, George's friend, he ran the UFO program for the Defense Intelligence Agency. He came on our show a bunch of times. He hasn't done a bunch of shows. He went through DoPsR to be able to tell George, we have a non-human intelligence UFO in a holding base, and we breached the hull of it. That's a gigantic admission. That is disclosure of a non-human intelligence craft, right?

• 51:46George Knapp?

  Yes, and it took, um, we co-wrote a book called Skin Markers of the Pentagon. It took 14 months to get through the Dobbs process. We thought it would never end. I think Jay Stratten, who was in charge of the OEP task force, was part of OSAP and ATEP. He's still waiting. It's been a year and a half, two years.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  And it's, it's, it's Lou Elizondo, it's Jay Stratten, they all gotta push through, right, to, to the Dobbs process, but Dylan is kinda free balling it. Dylan's saying, he is, you know, he's saying, "I have to be so careful, but, but there's a reason why I brought Dylan in." And I just wanna give you insight, if I can, real quickly about what that's like. Congress will tell me, "There's a hearing coming." And then I'll say, "Good luck, what do you need?" "I hear nothing." And then all of a sudden, I get a panicked phone call. It's supposed to be in three days. I'm like, "What are you talking about?" This is how it works. And, and, and then I'm like, "Okay, so you give me three weeks, and you will have firsthand people. Who do you need? What do you need?" And then I put them through the wringer.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  Dylan did it with me twice. Just like, "Can he talk publicly?" So I'm, I'm, I'm literally on these video calls every damn day for two and a half months sometimes, prior to a hearing, and it's like, there's these national security spooks, there's people recording the calls, and I said, "Sure, I'm recording it too." They're like, "That's illegal." I go, "Okay. You're recording it? You're a federal agent, you work for me. I record every fucking call, and I told them." So here's the deal. Dylan's going through this process. He has no idea if he's gonna testify. What is his life going to be like? And guess what? The, George and I were supposed to testify with 12 videos out of the 46 you're about

• 53:27Speaker 02

  to see, they say, which I believe, and, um, they, they stymied us, and we, we weren't able to show you those videos. So Dylan, it's like, he had, what, was it four days? I called you four days before.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, uh, we had gone through the process.

• 53:44Speaker 00

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• 54:13Speaker 01

  It was, the other people were selected and I was kind of...

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Maybe?

• 54:20Speaker 01

  Yes, for that whole time.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  Is it dangerous what you're gonna say?

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Uh, no, it's...

• 54:24Speaker 02

  No, that's what, that's what they were thinking.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, obviously.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Not, not Congress, by the way. Rep Luna, Rep Burchett, Rep Burleson, they are fighting for you. They are pushing for you. Yeah, I, I don't care, I don't care about politics, I don't care about that. They are fighting for you. So, the, the whole thing with Dylan is, four days before, they're like, "Oh yeah, okay, you can now talk." And it's like, he had no time to prepare. How do you do a Dobbs-er in four days? You don't. You don't.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Well, one, one quick thing we gotta remember too is, my attorney for the IG had specifically told me not to talk to Congress, and when I was asked to do it, I said, "I will talk to Congress." And this goes back to our interview, which I said, "I have now gone not against my attorney's wishes," uh, at the time.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  Always go against your attorney's wishes. Just push, push, push. Let's go, motherfuckers.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, again, I, I volunteered to do this. Um, you know, I, side note, and you're aware, uh, the big thing with me, look, you guys and every human being in America, holding their country responsible and making sure they're accountable, is extremely important.

• 56:07Speaker 05

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• 56:31Speaker 01

  For me, UFOs is the backdrop to government corruption and crimes committed against employees and citizens of the United States. That's why I came forward. That's it. You know, we talked about this in the Weaponized interview, and you know our friend. And the very first thing I said was basically like, look, I'm here because I'm scared people will die. And here we are.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  That's why we called them Scarecrow. It's a code name we used for years when we knew the CIA was listening and we got proof yesterday.

• 57:05George Knapp?

  Can you give this audience, not everyone is up to speed on every term we're using or your whole story, but can you give us your opinion? You're not have to spill any state secrets.

• 57:16Speaker 00

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• 57:44George Knapp?

  But about legacy programs, UFO legacy programs that are allegedly hidden in aerospace companies, hidden in the bowels of agencies where we are reverse engineering or attempting to reverse engineer alien craft, craft of non-human origin. We don't know if they're from other planets or other realities. What do you think about those? Do we have those things?

• 58:08Speaker 01

  I'm going to be really careful here. I will quote Lou, Dave, Lakatsky and play this game because we're starting to brush into things that are getting a little spicy.

• 58:19George Knapp?

  Understood.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Knowing, having a feeling, knowing where we're going with things. I'm going to say 100% yes.

• 58:30George Knapp?

  I don't know how far you can, we haven't planned this interview out. You drew some pictures.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  Okay, hold on, we gotta be real gentle here. So, In Weaponized, if you watched it, you saw Dylan draw a photo of a triangular craft that he saw come up. He drew that for the ICIG, he drew that for Arrow. He made sure that that drawing and all the information was given to the appropriate organizations and agencies as a whistleblower. Dylan Borland is a whistleblower. But there's a twist. So I don't know where you want to go with this, but what were you asking? I'm scared what you're gonna go.

• 59:14George Knapp?

  Well, you kinda blew my question out of the water there, didn't you?

• 59:17Speaker 01

  I'm kinda scared a little bit too.

• 59:19George Knapp?

  Are you allowed to, are you allowed to say to this audience?

• 59:23Speaker 00

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• 59:53George Knapp?

  What you drew pictures of?

• 59:55Speaker 02

  Let me talk for you after you answer that.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  I can say I drew a picture of a triangle and other drawings, as I have said already.

• 1:00:04George Knapp?

  Other drawings, that's as far as we can go.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  Okay, hold on. So, I'm gonna spill the beans now to this audience, and I think it's time that we do it.

• 1:00:11George Knapp?

  Yes.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  So, and if I fuck this up, George, that's why you're my mentor in journalism, okay?

• 1:00:17George Knapp?

  Well, I'll write you in prison.

• 1:00:19Speaker 02

  I have to, I, I...

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  I, I, I, you guys are the journalists, you guys have certain protections that I don't have.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  We do, there's seven protective classes, so when FBI approached me and George, they had to go through a six-month process because there's seven protected classes. And I'm so glad they considered me a journalist. We have broken a ton of stories, but like, George now is my mentor in journalism. I say that because I want to make sure everybody understands, we're working together on these stories that change things, man, we're really pushing. But, but, but here's the deal. I'm gonna say something under the guidance of my lawyer tonight. And I'm just gonna straight up fucking say it. And I want you to know it. And I don't know what Dylan can respond to responsibly and it's my, my, it is my job and George's job to protect him, but we're going there anyway, so you do your best. Um.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  I don't know what you just said, but I, I heard red rum and it reminds me of Kubrick and the fucking thing. I'm having a panic attack.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  Same.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  Okay, so, so, so, so, so check it out.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  ODNI, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  They had a program. It was called the DIG, the Director's Initiative.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  George and I were the first people that they contacted. They said, "We're going after COVID." "The lies." "We're going after Havana Syndrome." "And we're going after the lies about UAP. "We are going to reveal this to the world." And George and I look at each other, we're like, "Cool. Should we talk with them?" And we did. They said, "You wanna get in the skiff?" And I'm like, "No." "Do you wanna come to the visitor's center?" I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, that sounds good." So we went to the visitor's center because we figured we wouldn't have to put our phones in a box, but we actually ended up having to put our phones in an agent's car, which was a mistake. Yeah, for real. And, um, I don't know, I think for real. Who knows?

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  But, um, OD and I was studying the UAP thing and they were like, "We're gonna get to the bottom of this." And George and I were, he, he was cautiously optimistic is what he would say, because he's never optimistic. And I was like, "These motherfuckers are trying to get everybody, but we're..." You know, but, but we went, we went. First contact. And I said, "Okay, she's cool as hell, but you need somebody who's a bulldog." And I said this to a higher up. "We got a bulldog." "I like the guy. I really like the guy. Love to have a beer with him sometime." "But he did some dirty shit." "I think. I think he did." "So here's what happened."

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  "They asked us, 'Who's willing, as far as whistleblowers, to come forward and talk to us? And tell us what's going on with UAP?'" "So I'm like, 'Oh, my God. Lou Elizondo, Jay Stratton, Matthew Brown, Dylan Borland, um, Daniel, uh, Galkarel.'" "Like, there's a ton of people. Like, Commander Fravor, have you talked with him? He's a baller. Are you ready?" "He was here, by the way, a number of years ago." "Right, so I was like, 'Okay, no problem.'" "So George and I put a bunch of people in, but we warned them."

• 1:03:42George Knapp?

  Initially, we used names that they should have known already.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:45George Knapp?

  You know, we didn't use all the names of whistleblowers, for example. We used the num- the names of Dr. Lakowski, Jay Stratton, Lou Elizondo. People they should know, that they should have approached before they approached us.

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  And, and we asked everybody that we put in. We- I called Dylan. I'm like, "Do you want to do this?" I called Matt Brown. I called David Grush, and David already knew the investigation was going on. But like, "Do you want to do this?" "You know, they say they're really going after it." "So, that's kind of how it started." "So, OD and I had an investigation called the DIG. Tulsi Gabbard is the head of OD and I." "And I, I really, from my friends that know her, like, she's straight and on the level about UAP."

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  "So we go in, George and I, into the visitor's center. I didn't want to get in a skiff. Our phones are still taken." "So we go in, and they tell us, 'We're gonna get to the bottom of this.'" "And this is nine months of me, recording every single phone call." "Not accidentally, by the way. My, my cameras just record shit at my house, and I always talk on speakerphone. Ain't my fault." "It's not my fault. It's been happening forever." "Um, but here's the deal."

• 1:04:53George Knapp?

  He swears all of my confidential conversations with him are not taped, though.

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  Nobody cares about the Odin and the cats pissing on the artwork.

• 1:05:04George Knapp?

  Space cats, by the way.

• 1:05:05Speaker 02

  The space, I do, I, you, you ever notice like the cats jump up behind George's head whenever he's doing a podcast? Anyway, so ju- just to be, I'm trying to be so clear and transparent with you to set up what we're about to talk about, which is, I warned Dylan, I warned Matt, I warned Lou Elizondo, I warned everybody that I don't know these people, but they are knocking on the door like, "Let's talk." So I said, "Do you want to talk with them?" And everybody, to their credit, everybody's like, "Yes, brother, let's do this, let's talk to him, let's move this forward." Nobody was resistant. There was no hesitation, there was no, like, just, um, subversion. Everybody was like, "Let's do this."

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  Do you guys remember when, um, Alec, Senior Chief Alexandra Wiggins testified? Remember that? Active Navy officer? Oh my God, the amount of bureaucracy I had to go through to even submit his name is insane. That dude and people like that, everybody's willing, everybody's ready to go. So, Odie and I, I don't want to vilify Odie and I. Odie and I is essential, and it's a awesome group of people. There's one woman that we met that was just so cool and that. And they're all like, really, I think, fighting for the truth, but under the direction of a number of other people. However, during that process, did you watch the Matthew Brown weaponized, where he told

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  you his experiences as a whistleblower, just trying to go in and testify to the government about what happened? Did you hear what he said? Yeah, he said, "They tried to make him a villain." They told me he lied to me and George. They told me he made up Immaculate Constellation. Little did they know that George and I did our homework. Little did they know that we already knew about all that stuff.

• 1:06:57George Knapp?

  They said he was a Jew hater.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  They did.

• 1:07:00George Knapp?

  He got the information while he was at a Jewish wedding.

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  He did, he did. So Matthew Brown, it's so funny, like, I, I, I, it hurts my heart to call you guys and tell you when people are trying to entrap you and, and arrest you and put you into treason. But anyway, um, I called Matt and he was at a Jewish wedding and he's like, "I'm part Jewish." He's like, "What do you mean?" And I go, "It's not me. I didn't say that. They said, you said, "You're a Jew hater." And I said, "So, so I recorded everything and it's just like, it's so sad to me. It's sad to me that they're trying to make me and George do the dirty work to you and tell you these guys are full of shit. You know, when people like Dylan have served their country, I know Dylan, man.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  He's served his country and, and he served you and he's an honest human. They're not trying to get anything out of this. They're just trying to tell you what's up.

• 1:07:53George Knapp?

  Over the months that these conversations continued, they slimed everyone. They slimed every witness who came in, told us why they're bad people, why they can't be trusted, all of them. Lou Elizondo,

• 1:08:06George Knapp?

  James Lekatsky. Jay Stratton? Jay Stratton. Um, why they can't be trusted. So, we have not seen the final report. I'm not sure the public will ever see the final report. It hasn't been made public. I'm not even sure Congress will get it. Uh, but we have a general, pretty good idea about what is in that report and it's not very complimentary about the topic. We believe and suspected from the beginning that after we figured out what, what the agenda was, that the real, um, purpose of this ODNI investigation as it's being led by the director's underlings was to cut the legs off of congressional interest in the topic, to get the media to not take it seriously, to get Congress to back off and focus on something more important and something legitimate and...

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  Uh, so we're telling you behind the scenes, an intelligence agency comes to journalists like me and George and they're like, "Do you have willing participants?" And we're like, "Yeah, of course we do. Everybody wants this out." And, and they were trying to bamboozle us and I don't want to like hate on the principal investigator because I don't know, maybe he was bamboozled himself. But we were sitting there like, "What the fuck is going on? When you say words like espionage about Matt Brown and you say words like treason about Dylan Borland?"

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, that happened. Oh, that happened. And so I've kind of done as a journalist with George. We've documented what's said to us, right? That's what we do. We have to protect ourselves and protect other people. But bottom line is this. I have some hard questions right now. And I don't know if Dylan can answer them. But I'm gonna ask them. And that's what's up. So Dylan testified behind closed doors. So did Matthew Brown to a lot of people other than hand up in America like in hearings. Matthew Brown has not been given his day yet. I cannot wait until Matthew Brown can raise his hand under oath and testify to you,

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  the American public, and say it like it is. George Knapp and I tried to bring you 12 of the 46 videos in the hearing where they completely... George and I were supposed to testify. The hearing before George testified. I said, "Here's the 12 videos." They tried to get us into a skiff. My lawyer called me. He goes, "Don't go." I was in the shower and Rep. Luna called me and says, "You know I'm not in that skiff, right?" And I'm like, "What?" And she... So I had talked with them, saying we were gonna bring videos. But when you have possession and you go into a skiff, they will immediately reverse classify anything that you have so you can't report on it. So we did not go into the skiff.

• 1:10:52Speaker 02

  And you did not get to see those videos in the hearing before the last one that George and Dylan talked about. In fact, they did a switcheroo on you. They had a paid-for journalist that they wanted you to trust. That's why I was pissed. Everybody wonder why I was pissed? Well, because somebody turned in my homework. Because they wanted you to trust somebody who is untrustworthy, not worthy of your trust. So here we are. Here are the big questions. What did Dylan Borland testify to? And how can we say it to you legally right now? I have an idea.

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  Before I say this, do you have anything to say? Because I'm about to go.

• 1:11:35George Knapp?

  No, no, no.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  So I'm just a bearded tattooed idiot.

• 1:11:41George Knapp?

  I'll send you, um, money for the cafeteria.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  Okay, great.

• 1:11:44George Knapp?

  Commissary, too.

• 1:11:45Speaker 02

  My lawyer, my lawyer said I could say this.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  I, I want to be again clear, you guys are journalists. I'm, I'm, I will do my, I will protect national security.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  Okay, so as a journalist, so George and I have been exposed to certain things, and here's the deal tonight.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  Our law, I talked with our lawyer in the hotel right before we came here.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  I was told by an ODNI agent that Dylan testified to ICIG, the police of the intelligence agencies, that there is a UFO program, and it's called Rubik's Cube.

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  That's what he said. That's what, that's what I heard from the ODNI, which they shouldn't be calling me and telling me what was described in a skiff. Should they? Right, so I'm a journalist, so I listened, and I'm testifying to you, believe me or not, I'm a bearded tattooed journalist with a great mentor, you don't need to believe me.

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  Project Rubik's Cube. Dylan, I'm not even gonna look at you. Have you, have you ever testified to ICIG about a UAP program, containing UAP, called Project Rubik's Cube?

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Let me collect my thoughts.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  I am not in a skiff.

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  I am not going to jail.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  I can neither confirm or deny, but if you want me to answer that question, ask for amnesty for the whistleblowers, as Congress and the executive branch should give it to us, and I'll answer that question gladly.

• 1:13:45George Knapp?

  It's the thing, where, you know, now that Congress is open about its interest in the topic and it's asking whistleblowers to come forward, the media, a greater number of media at least than in years past are covering it, the UFO public is demanding it, calling for it, promising to protect whistleblowers, "Don't worry, you won't go to prison, we'll rise up in unison and decry any kind of prosecutions," and, you know, "Good luck, you owe it to the world to come forward and say this." Well, the reality is different for those people because it disrupts their lives. Dylan hasn't shared all the information about how, what's happened to his life, his, he and his wife's marriage and their life together. Matthew Brown hasn't told the full story

• 1:14:27George Knapp?

  about what it's been like for him and other people, it's been miserable. You know you're under surveillance, you know that your employment opportunities are limited, maybe you have a, you know, a classification still, a security clearance, but you're never going to work in those programs again. You were held in limbo for months, right?

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  Four years.

• 1:14:47George Knapp?

  Yeah, where you couldn't leave and couldn't go anywhere, couldn't go anywhere else and you knew you weren't going to stay for very long. It was like intolerable to know, not know from one day to another whether you had a paycheck coming in anymore.

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:15:02George Knapp?

  So, you know, it's easy to go ahead from in the UFO bleachers, "Come on whistleblowers, come forward, we got your back." There's nobody helping whistleblowers, there's no fund to help whistleblowers to get them through the hard times that are inevitable when they come forward. And, you know, it's, I'm glad to hear the public interested and Congress interested, but there's nobody stepping up really to actual, actually help them get through what is a painful, dangerous period of their lives.

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  I've had people call me and say they're creating a whistleblower fund. I go, "What the fuck you creating? You're a rich person. There are whistleblowers that literally are going to go get bank teller jobs and they're highly, highly trusted with American secrets." Like, they need help now. They've had to move, I don't want to spill secrets, but people, whistleblowers have had to move homes. Because they couldn't make the paycheck for the rent. And I'm like, why don't, you guys are these rich people creating these whistleblower funds. Why don't you help the people that have testified, by the way? So it's such an awkward turtle, you know, the upside down turtle. It's like an awkward situation, but I'm just starting. So I'm, I gotta get through these points with Dylan. And I don't know how this is gonna go. I don't wanna look at you.

• 1:16:16Speaker 02

  So I'm gonna just testify as a journalist to what George and I were directly told, because this stuff is supposed to be classified. But if they tell me, I have never signed an oath. I have never worked for the government. Neither have George. Doesn't matter what they say, we're journalists, so let's fucking go. You ready?

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  Okay. So my next question is very, very simple. So you went, Dylan, you can affirm this. You went to the ICIG, the Police of the Intelligence Agency, and you did a formal complaint with a baller lawyer. And you told them about your exposure to UAP information. Can you just say yes or no about that?

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  Absolutely, yes.

• 1:16:58Speaker 02

  Okay, great. So I am assuming, because I was told by Odi and I, that one of those programs is called Project Rubik's Cube, and you can't confirm that, I'm gonna move on.

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  I was told, actually, I was asked to try to entrap Dylan. When George and I did the filming of Weaponized and he drew the triangle, did Dylan draw anything else? And I said, no. Why? And my lawyer's like, stop talking with Odi and I. I go, no, no, no, no. I wanna find out what they're saying. So a prime investigator of Odi and I said to me, "Did Dylan tell you about the pyramid power source?" And I go, no, tell me more. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? He never said that. And he didn't. Dylan's a patriot. He's careful. He hasn't done Dobbs, sir. So my question to Dylan in front of you, I don't wanna look at him.

• 1:17:54Speaker 02

  It's real simple.

• 1:17:57Speaker 02

  Did you draw an image of a non-human intelligence pyramid power source? Maybe at Pax River?

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  For the ODNI, did you yes or no?

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  I repeat the answer that I gave you for the name of a program that I can neither confirm or deny. I can neither confirm or deny that right now. I will gladly answer that if the executive branch in Congress gives me amnesty.

• 1:18:31Speaker 02

  If the executive branch in Congress gives you amnesty?

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  I can neither confirm or deny.

• 1:18:39Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  If I am legally allowed to answer that, I would love to.

• 1:18:42Speaker 02

  You would love to?

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  I would do so.

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  You'd love to answer that question?

• 1:18:44Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:18:46Speaker 02

  No, no, bro, stop. No. Dylan is my friend. He came forward, apparently, I learned, George and I learned through ODNI, about non-human intelligence, a pyramid-shaped object that is a power source of non-human intelligence. I didn't learn that from Dylan. I learned that from ODNI. Is that true? I don't know. But he seems to want to answer. And he's asking you, he's asking Congress for amnesty. And he'll answer in front of the American public. Got another question. Are you ready for it? Okay. And I'm not going to look at you. George and I are curious cat. George is like,

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  um, do you know Felix the cat? He had like a bag and in the bag, he's like a bunch of stuff. Like curiosity killed the cat? Hell, no. Curiosity weaponized the cat. George and I got a, George and I got a question. Dylan Borland, this is the craziest thing I heard from ODNI. Did you draw a hieroglyph that you understood was on that pyramid power source? Can you tell us if you went to ODNI and drew them an image of not only the pyramid,

• 1:20:14Speaker 02

  But a hieroglyph that was on the pyramid, which would be really weird. Did you draw that image for them?

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  I unfortunately am going to repeat the same thing because I am not going to jail. I can neither confirm or deny.

• 1:20:28Speaker 02

  Okay. Let me back up one second. So what you're not saying is if you're given amnesty, that you would answer mine and George's question on if there was a power source that was a pyramid and shaped a triangle for angle of observation, George. And there was a hieroglyphic kind of image, which is a weird thing, on that power source of non-human intelligence. You would tell the truth to America under oath, standing in front of Congress. Would you do that if they gave you amnesty?

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  I would tell the truth about everything you just asked without hesitation.

• 1:21:10Speaker 02

  Fuck. Okay, one more question. Last question. So George, what I want to highlight now, we have not scripted this, we're not ready for this, but I happen to know, and you happen to know, that there was an attempt to entrap, which is legal by the way, to a federal agency to entrap somebody. I believe ODNI, or maybe not ODNI, Arrow or somebody tried to fabricate that Dylan drew a fourth, because by the way, I was told those two drawings exist, that he drew a pyramid, that he drew, which was the power source, and that he drew a hieroglyph in the I-C-I-G and to Arrow.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  And that's what he drew, and he told him about Project Rubik's Cube. But I was told something else. And now I know that it's fake. It's not true. It's a lie about Dylan. And I'm going to bring it up tonight. But before we go there, George, so I believe Dylan, they were trying to entrap him by falsifying evidence for treason against him. How do we open this, George? I don't know where to go. You're my mentor. Let's go, motherfucker.

• 1:22:18George Knapp?

  Well, I just looked at the time and I know that our audience wants to answer some questions. No, I'm not doing that as a dodge, I'm just saying that I know you guys want to ask some questions of Dylan, some of which he might be able to ask, answer, and some not. So if you want to ask him one more-

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  I, one last thing, because this is the kind of the point for me tonight. I called our lawyer Chuck McCullough tonight, and here's the deal. I was told that Dylan Borland drew a photograph that is highly sensitive, and it is part of national security, and he's not allowed to put that out, and he mistook it as UFO and alien-related, and it was a sensor system. So here's my question, I think Dylan can answer. Dylan, you can say yes or no to this dude. Did you draw a fourth image for the ICIG when you gave your UFO whistleblower complaint that was a sensor system, and what would that look like, and how would you draw that?

• 1:23:14Speaker 01

  Not only did I never draw that, I don't know how to draw that, and when our DNI person had called me to accuse me of it, I asked to immediately come in the SCIF and see it for my own two eyes, and to understand who made the claim, and that is why not only did I get accused of committing treason, which is a lifetime statute of limitations with a death penalty, as soon as I asked to come in and see it, he immediately ghosted me and cut all contact. So, no, not at all.

• 1:23:49Speaker 02

  As, so you didn't draw a fourth drawing?

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  There is no such thing.

• 1:23:52Speaker 02

  Okay, but did you draw three?

• 1:23:54Speaker 01

  I, I did draw, well, I can't answer that, I've said it, I drew one triangle, the triangle I saw at Langley, and two other drawings.

• 1:24:03Speaker 02

  You can say that?

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  What the fuck am I doing? You can literally say, but would I just ask you those questions?

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  No, different. I can say I drew a triangle, and I made two other drawings that were classified.

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  So they classified Dylan's drawings that he didn't draw, okay? But I, I just want to really drive this home and then George is right, we're going to questions. But I want you to know, George and I as journalists are witnesses with evidence to something. What we are witnesses to evidence of is Odie and I told us. Now, were they lied to? I don't know. I don't want to vilify Odie and I. There's some good people in Odie and I. But, but, but they told me on the phone, if you trust me, I'm telling you and I have evidence. They told me that Dylan Borland drew a sensitive censor system that was classified. And they, they wanted to see if he drew it for me and George to try to get him in jail under treason.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  And I go, what the fuck you talking about? And then they told me about this censor system. Now, here's the deal. I asked Dylan, did you draw a censor system? He goes, how would you draw that? No, I didn't. And in fact, he said, my whole I C I G drawings were filmed. So get the film. And I've seen the text where he's trying to get them to bring him in. He's saying, what did you say? Did a draw, a fourth drawing? What are you saying? Let me come in and clarify. Odie and I is calling me be like, oh, we're gonna bust him. I'm like, bust him how? He didn't draw a fourth drawing. And guess what? They never let him come in and validate himself. They never let him come in. So what are they running? What are they running?

• 1:25:47Speaker 02

  What is that individual or those individuals? What are they running to try to get him for treason? Just because he told you about UFOs, very, he saw one at a base with his hand up. That's what we're up against. And I hope I made my point. I hope you understand. But George and I are journalists as witnesses that they tried to get Dylan Borland, Matthew Brown, Lou Elizondo and Jay Stratton for crimes they didn't commit to stop them from telling you about UFOs. Do you understand? Fuck yeah.

• 1:26:16George Knapp?

  And David Grush. And Grush.

• 1:26:17Speaker 02

  And David Grush. David, no, hold on. David Grush was the, was the apex predator here. They tried to get him. They tried to get me to get him. They tried to turn me and George on him. David Grush been telling you how it is, how he knows it since day one. He leaned over at a bar to George Knapp said, I need somebody I can trust. And he went to George and I have it filmed. So they're trying to tell you that UFOs ain't real? Well, guess what? Forty-six videos coming. Let's go to Q and A.

• 1:26:47George Knapp?

  Again, we're talking about what it's like for whistleblowers. So, the kinds of things, and we're not even getting into all of it. But, you know, Dave Grush's very sensitive personal information was leaked in the smear attempt. He's been spied upon, the surveillance of all of them. That DIG program, as we learned from the guy who testified before the Senate a couple of days ago, spied on all the whistleblowers that came in. They hacked their phones, they hacked their computers, they've done surveillance. I swear, black helicopters, right Dylan? Yeah, right. Black helicopters.

• 1:27:19Speaker 01

  Uh, I, I, I have-

• 1:27:21George Knapp?

  Can you confirm or deny?

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  I, I have it on film.

• 1:27:23George Knapp?

  Yeah. Uh, you know, stuff that would make you look crazy. Holding over your head the possibility of prosecuting for treason, even if they couldn't convict you, and we don't even know if that would be done in a public courtroom or behind the scenes. That's the kind of stuff that whistleblowers face when they come forward on this topic. And it's real. It, it, it's real. So, when UFO public says, "Come on whistleblowers, come on forward, we'll take care of you", it's, it kind of rings hollow with the people whose lives are actually on the line. Let's take some questions.

• 1:27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're gonna do some Q and A right now. There's my friend right there, Alicia. What's going on? How you doing? Hey, I was just gonna say, thanks for lining up here. I just wanted to remind everyone, we wanna try to get to as many people as possible, so please limit it to one question if you can. Thank you. What she's saying is, "Don't be crazy. I don't wanna hear about the, you know, every, ask Dylan a question." That's what we're doing right now. You can talk to me after, I can't wait. Ask Dylan a question, or me and George. Okay, I guess I'm number one. All right, um, Dylan, I was just wondering, what did you do after you went back inside from your smoke break?

• 1:28:30Speaker 01

  Uh, so I worked 24/7, uh, shift ops. I talked to my buddy, told him what I saw, and I went back in. I believe at that point in time, I was playing Borderlands 2. So I, uh, hopped on Borderlands 2 and took a nap.

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  What's up Dylan? Borderlands 2, that's a dope ass game, just wanna say that. Bro, honestly, like, I have no question, all I really wanna say is, I see you up there, I see your body language. Like, you wanna be up there, but you also don't. And I know you are so legitimate, and I just wanna thank you from the bottom of my heart. Honestly, man.

• 1:29:16Speaker 02

  Because none of us, none of us plebes can really understand what you are going through in your journey with this, except for that you want to tell the truth. And that is fucking so admirable, and I have so much fucking goddamn respect for you. So dude, shout out to you, man, honestly.

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  So, real quick, so, thank you. I appreciate you're gonna, I'm getting choked up. This has been a nightmare for me for years. Um, I want to tell you the same thing I tell everybody. Don't thank me, thank Jeremy, thank George, thank Dave, thank Herrera, thank Matt, thank people who are not here. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of people who have been doing this for years, and whistleblowers right now that are going through things worse than me, so thank them too.

• 1:30:05Speaker 02

  Oh, this is my fourth year here, and I have thanked them, and I think they are incredible. But, there's a level of polish that comes with doing this year after year, and you are like, the raw example of somebody who's just doing this because they think that it's the right fucking thing to do, so thank.

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  That is true.

• 1:30:24Speaker 02

  We got an army coming forward and videos are coming out, we're making progress. Yeah, I got chills Dylan, thank you so much for coming forward. I have a two-part question because I need to make sure I'm speaking accurately. Did you have to pay your own way to go to the hearing in Washington DC?

• 1:30:43Speaker 01

  I have paid my way for everything, I've never taken a cent from anyone or anything, and I in fact refuse reimbursement for travel vouchers.

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  Thank you. Now, having said that, why should anybody risk their life to tell the government what they know if the government isn't willing to pay for a frickin airline ticket and a hotel room, damn it?

• 1:31:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I understand. I think that the trouble with that is, and this is part of the problem, this goes back to helping whistleblowers and trying to figure out a way to make it look like the government is not paying people on a political bend. So, to my understanding, to be fair, the government and bringing whistleblowers in, the idea is that if you give, if the government gives whistleblowers funds, it looks like they're not a whistleblower. It looks like it's a political bend to some extent, and that's why there's been a division there for a while.

• 1:31:38George Knapp?

  In fact, when Dylan went to see OD and I, he would not accept a bottle of water.

• 1:31:43Speaker 01

  That is true. That is absolutely true.

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  Because they were trying to make it that everybody that came in, they were telling me every day after these SCIF meetings, they were telling me that everybody was asking for a job. And it was a lie, but they were telling me to try to get me and George to do their dirty work, turn against whistleblowers like David Grush, Dylan Borland, Matthew Brown, et cetera, et cetera. So Dylan didn't even accept a bottle of water. We hadn't talked, actually, I thought we had, we hadn't even talked about it. That's just who he is. So that's straight up.

• 1:32:18Speaker 02

  Well, I just want to start off by thanking you, Dylan, thanking all three of you for all your work. So during your testimony, Dylan, you mentioned a big difference between the term NHI and aliens, right? Space aliens, right? Arrow, we all love them, right? So the question that I have for you, or any of you, do we have intelligence that you can talk about that points us in a different direction than extraterrestrials? So, such as like undersea bases, or some of the other chatter we've been hearing lately? Is that something you guys have been hearing? Can we talk about it?

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  I'll let the journalist talk.

• 1:33:01Speaker 02

  You know, the triangle that you mentioned, it was none of them, but it was by a, based by the sea, right? We hear a lot of ocean terminology lately, so.

• 1:33:10Speaker 01

  I'm giving this to you two.

• 1:33:12George Knapp?

  You know, we've been at this a long time, Jeremy and I and other people we know who are pretty far up the food chain, and I don't think anybody knows for sure where these things are from. I mean, you might know some of them. You know, would you know for sure if you had an alien body? It looks like an alien, you think it's an alien. Do we know what aliens look like? Aliens being ETs, you know. We might think it, but I don't know anybody that knows for sure. I'm not sure there is anybody who knows for sure. Maybe some of it, but not all of it.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:33:47Speaker 02

  We don't know, but one thing real quick, it's just, I just think, like, why would you make a Lamborghini if you didn't want to drive fast? So why would you make a craft that could travel amongst the stars if you're not traveling amongst the stars?

• 1:33:59George Knapp?

  The answer is probably, it's more than one answer, you know? We could be the cosmic drive-in theater, come and see the weird humans. It's extraterrestrial. Jacques Vallée had said it, "Look, if you, they can do what we've seen them do, manipulate spacetime like this. They could be extraterrestrial, interdimensional, crypto-terrestrial, time travelers, all the above, and a couple of categories we haven't even figured out yet." It's probably more than one answer.

• 1:34:24Speaker 02

  Guys, Rep Luna, you know, reached out to me and George Knapp and said, "We're getting the 46 videos, we're putting them out to the public. This is a great start. George and I, what we've seen, you should see. We should let the internet do its thing, right? It's number one, baby. Like, let's find out what's going on with the videos." But I gotta say something real quick, this is kind of where we're ending before the questions, which is like, "Hey, really cool, we got some releases. This is unprecedented transparency. However, at the same time, if David Grush, if you believe him, then we, it's not just about these videos where we capture, by the way, an amazing video, instantaneous acceleration,

• 1:35:05Speaker 02

  they did not want you to see that, and we took a risk putting it out, and so did all our sources, but we put it out. You can see with your own eyes a craft move after it gets a weapons-grade lock, little bit to the left, shoot to the right, instantaneous. Don't let any of these debunkers dissuade you." Look at what they say, they're fucking wrong. That video was analyzed as a product of the United States government, it's not just a video, that is their analysis. So now, if they put out these forty-six, actually forty-five, because we released number two, which is instantaneity acceleration, if they put these out, then you get a glimpse. But David Grush, what did he say? David Grush said, "We have reverse engineering exploitation programs." George knows it's true as well, we do have that.

• 1:35:48Speaker 02

  He also said we have bodies, pilots, non-human bodies. Our conversation is the floor, it's not the ceiling. Let's fucking go. Thank you.

• 1:36:05Speaker 05

  Well, hell, you answered a lot of the questions I came up here to ask. So we all obviously know that it's true, we've seen things, we study things, we listen to people that are experienced with the knowledge of it. What is the reason, you think, we've got soft disclosure now, but what is the reason that they don't want us to know the truth?

• 1:36:25Speaker 02

  George now.

• 1:36:28George Knapp?

  Well, I mean, there are legitimate national security implications for this technology. We know that the Russians would like to have it, they've had their own program, the Chinese have had a program, there is a race to get it. I think that our country, the people who are on the inside who've been working on this stuff, I don't know how far we've got, and Dylan can't answer how far we've gotten in trying to reproduce that technology, but it is a race, and whoever gets it first wins, you know? You have one machine, and you control the world. So obviously, we want it first.

• 1:36:57Speaker 05

  Technology and not another being out there that could conflict with other people's beliefs of there's a God and one Creator.

• 1:37:05George Knapp?

  I don't think they're really worried about their religious aspects of it, I think there are people who would freak out if the President stands up and says, "Yeah, there are non-human intelligence among us, and there's nothing we can do about it." And I don't expect ever to be, see, to hear an announcement like that. I think people can handle it, depending what it is. If we're an ant farm, if we're an agricultural product, if it's really their planet, if it is... My simulated reality and not a real world. I mean, there's a lot of scenarios you can imagine that would be upsetting to a lot of people. But I think we can handle the basics that there's another intelligence here that's not us. They haven't bombed us or wiped it out. We don't see them sending us to slaughterhouses on a mass scale. I think we can handle it.

• 1:37:50George Knapp?

  But I think part of the secrecy is because of the technology and the race war. And also because a lot of people would go to jail. They would go to prison when it all comes out how they've been lying and stealing maybe tens of billions, hundreds of billions of dollars from legitimate national security programs. Part of it, you know, without permission from Congress, without permission from anyone, hiding it inside these giant aerospace companies, lying to Congress, lying to the public, people would go to prison. And so I think that could be a reason for it, too.

• 1:38:20Speaker 05

  I have a second question, just to follow up with that, and sorry. Do you, what is the percentage that you think that is our spacecraft in technology compared to maybe extraterrestrial?

• 1:38:30George Knapp?

  I would have no idea. Do you?

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  I would say, in my opinion, 90% are probably ours, approximately 10% or not.

• 1:38:41Speaker 02

  That's an amazing answer for me because I have been disillusioned over the years that we have made zero progress. Like when I got, I have the food chain with George, it's like, if you believe that, like, damn, I hope that's true.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  To answer that, and you're talking about like all UAP UFOs, so lights, orbs, so again, when you have things like Starlink that are up there. Exactly. And, and...

• 1:39:06Speaker 02

  Dylan is so factual, like he is so careful with his words. He's like, oh, yeah, things you see 90% are misidentified. 95%. I know, I agree with him, but the thing is what we're talking about is UFOs. We're talking about NHI alien spacecraft. Have you guys watched Sleeping Dog yet?

• 1:39:22Speaker 02

  Some of you don't even know what that is. There's a movie this kid Michael Lizowski put out yesterday on Amazon and Apple. It shows like two years of my life and George and me making a decision to tell you the truth despite the consequences to ourselves. Go watch it and let you hear Dylan. Dylan is in it before Dylan testified. He's in it. His voice is in it. Watch it. Give the kid a review. He made a good movie. It makes a difference. Go check it out. It's a it's an important moment that we're going through right now because you're about to see 46 fucking videos. So let's fucking go. You guys are my heroes. Thank you.

• 1:40:07Speaker 02

  And thanks for making history in this room tonight with us. Sorry, the question's kind of like fading from my brain. Um, it's kind of. It's McMinville THC beer and hopefully MDMA. Very important question. It came back, don't worry. Nice. Everybody loves you. Everybody wants to support you. Of course, the three of you, but you specifically, Dylan.

• 1:40:33Speaker 01

  Well, thank you.

• 1:40:34Speaker 02

  And the question that's burning in my head the whole time I heard this interview and other weaponized interviews and hearing about the struggles that you and people like Matthew and this whole list that we're talking about are going through. I mean, we're talking about going from intelligence to Home Depot, right? How can we support you? And is there any form of links or resources that we can find that we can contribute to the betterment of your and your family's lives and not just you, but Matthew too and everybody?

• 1:41:05Speaker 01

  So I appreciate it. Matt and I, three years ago when Matt and I met, Matt and I talked about figuring out a way to get people who are in these programs and aware of them, a way to safely have. What would almost be, I would call it restitution, where we can get a way to take care of their families, get them psychological help. Because the other issue is, when you find out this is true, people have a tendency to go down the rabbit hole. And you start to go down the rabbit hole because you're like, okay, I know the government's lied to me. I know this is true. What else have they lied to me about? And you get an MKUltra and Mockingbird in Northwoods, and your mind starts racing. So three years ago, Matt and I wanted to figure out a way to help other people because we knew what we had landed in.

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  We're working on that now. I appreciate everybody who wants to help me and everybody else. You know, I think the big one, and I'll stand by this, is hold government accountable. You don't have to agree with the politicians, but if you agree with the subject, as I said up there under oath, ask Tulsi Gabbard, ask Cash Patel, demand Congress. Give them congratulations when they do it. And going right up to the president, you know, if, all I'll say is whoever discloses it officially and provides a proof, that is a once in a civilization event, and they will live for infamy. So, you know, if you start to look at that

• 1:42:33Speaker 01

  through human perspectives, I think that will go further. But we are working on just supporting and transparency. Disclosure and transparency, we can only go so far. And even, and I've never done it, to be clear. Even if I walked out with classified documents proving everything I said with classification on there, and even if I had pictures, most people are just gonna say, you're lying. You made it up. The government's not gonna respond to it. And this gets into another issue too, which is, with disclosure, you know, we're 80 years? How many people are really gonna believe what is being brought forward and what is being declassified? And you're running into that now. It's really just having to hold them accountable

• 1:43:17Speaker 01

  and congratulate them when they do good things. And your guys' documentaries and the public. But yeah, in my opinion, the transparency has to come from within. That's why we're all playing this the way we are. That's why we're trying to go through these systems we are. That's why we're trying to do this, is not attack the system, hold the system accountable.

• 1:43:39Speaker 02

  And just pay attention, man. Pay attention. Thank you. You know, that's the, I think the best thing you can do for people like Matthew Brown and Dylan Borland and Senior Chief Wiggins and Elizondo and Strut, just pay attention. They're trying to tell you something. And they're taking great personal risk and cost to tell you something. Just pay attention.

• 1:44:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, as publicly and as easily we can find ways to contribute to the betterment of your guys' lives, that's, I just care for you guys and all the sacrifices you've made. There's no easy way to do that. The problem is that, you know, then you become on the take, you become a grifter. Like, these guys are just trying to tell you what's up. They will figure out their lives. They're strong human beings. But we make examples of them. How he does lets other people come up to me and George and say, "Oh, maybe that's a good idea to do that, too." I don't know. I don't know how to help. Just pay attention.

• 1:44:32George Knapp?

  They are, they are working on a mechanism that would help other whistleblowers.

• 1:44:36Speaker 02

  Well, we all love you guys.

• 1:44:37George Knapp?

  That'll be come out some maybe this year or what.

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  I, I believe that is the hope. That is the plan.

• 1:44:41George Knapp?

  Keep an eye on Dylan and Matt.

• 1:44:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, Dylan and Matt want to provide something that they didn't get. And I, I support them wholeheartedly when they're ready to tell you. Let's see. Hopefully, it will help people like them. Uh, next question, though. Thank you. Person behind you.

• 1:45:00Speaker 01

  Dylan, thank you very much. I really do appreciate what you've done. And frankly, hearing what you've gone through frankly makes me a little bit angry. So I'm gonna try to get through this, through the emotion, so bear with me. But, uh, it seems to me that the crime, it was done against you. You're being accused of crimes, and you're being accused, and you're being held responsible. But who's holding the people responsible that are accusing you? And how do we, and Jeremy and George, you said, "Hold Cash Patel, hold Tulsi, hold Donald..."

• 1:45:39Speaker 02

  How do we do that? No, no, the people you mentioned, I don't, they're not directly implicated, so, you know, maybe George and I are gonna report on what we know. Not sure yet. If they leave Dylan alone and stop these shenanigans, let's move on. Everybody's got a family. Everybody's taking orders from a higher up overlord or something. You know, it's very rare to be independent like me and George. So, I, we don't, we're not trying to destroy anybody. We're, we're not, I'm not trying to destroy anybody.

• 1:46:09George Knapp?

  Congress really is a threat to the secret keepers. I mean, they really are. This testimony that came out the other day that we mentioned earlier, it's a big deal. It's gonna have repercussions. I mean, when you have a, the guy who was in charge of DIG, who was overseeing not only the UAP investigation, but other sensitive stuff, says, "I was CIA, and I'm telling you CIA's been spying on the witnesses who came forward, the whistleblowers." That's a big deal. I mean, Odie and I supposed to oversee CIA, not the other way around, for CIA to go rogue like that? And then, the response from CIA, I don't know if you read it, but the response was, "That witness wasn't authorized to be there." Senate, US Senate, "You had to go through protocol to get our permission for it." Not a denial of, of any of it.

• 1:46:55George Knapp?

  But just saying, "You didn't go through the proper procedures to have one of our former employees testify before you."

• 1:47:00Speaker 02

  They're out of control.

• 1:47:01George Knapp?

  So, you know, again, I don't wanna be partisan. Democrat, Republican. This is one of the only bipartisan issues that exists in Washington anymore. Those three names that, the people really pushing it in the House, who've gone a lot further, I think, than anybody really imagined. Rep. Luna, Burleson, Burchett, and they're not big senior people. Representative Luna, I think, was expressing an interest in UFOs, and she wanted to have some kind of a committee assignment or a hearing, and they just get, I think they tried to give her enough rope. "Okay, you want UFOs, here, you got UFOs. Also, Epstein files, JFK, Havana syndrome, and a whole bunch of other stuff. We'll just give you enough rope to hang yourself." She ran with it. You know, she, she ran with it. She's still running with it.

• 1:47:44George Knapp?

  So, you gotta figure out a way to, to give them props and tell them you support them and, and let them keep going, because, believe me, they were the target of this skullduggery that we've been discussing, to cut the legs out and get them to move on to something else. That's always the way it's been. It, it, it works with media. Congress always has front burner issues that are more of a priority at a given moment. And that's why they fail to make much progress on this issue. So, give them some props and some support, send them a letter, send them an email. It matters.

• 1:48:16Speaker 02

  It does matter. Even when you go on social media, Rep. Luna, absolute gangster. Rep. Burchett, gangster. Rep. Burleson, gangster. These people are fighting for you. You've asked them to fight, they're fighting, I support them. I'm not a political person, I don't even know what people think politically. These people are fighting for you, support them. Just honestly, if you tweet that you support what they're doing about transparency, about UAP, they will see it and they will be thankful. Put an image, it's more impactful. Do it.

• 1:48:48George Knapp?

  The first hearing we went to, by the way, you know, the Republicans were asking a lot of the questions, but to start, literally on the left side of the room, there's AOC and Jamie Raskin, asking the same kind of tough questions that Matt Gaetz is asking on the right side. Now, there aren't many issues where those people agree on stuff.

• 1:49:07Speaker 02

  Amazing. Thank you. We're gonna be wrapping this up, so we've got the man in black. So, what's up, man? Let's move. A little short man in black, so let me adjust this here. Hey, man, you know what I mean? Whatever, let's go. So, I wasn't gonna come up here, then I noticed that my, maybe Apple decided to do an update on my phone, because my phone got blistering hot when I was sitting over there during this. Interesting. Anyone else have that? But it brings up the question for me, I noticed your use of the Glomar Protocol on there, confirm or deny. Just wanna give you the opportunity to say that when you gave that answer to their, talking about your testimony, that doesn't, there's no answer implied at all. Right.

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  Absolutely, no answer implied at all when you're talking. You're just gonna answer whatever it is if amnesty is granted to you. Correct? I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, but I'm gonna just pause this and move you out of the way, because I don't want nobody answering nothing. Perfect. Let me just, the other one. The night, I'm an amateur astronomer, the night of last time Venus transited the sun, which was back in 2012, later that night, I saw a large triangular shaped, uh, thing. One, two, three, four, five, directly over my head, heading, you know, to the horizon. Lucky. Wham. In the night, shouldn't have seen it, no lights on it, it was oddball out in air Man, everybody here's seen a UFO, and that's the thing. Everybody's seen one in here in some way, or they know somebody that did. That's why we're sitting here, because it's been the truth the whole time.

• 1:50:33Speaker 02

  So, the flight path it took over my house, I went and I looked up later, and saw that it's very similar to the flight path that the space shuttle would take when coming Okay, that's not a question, sorry. No, it's a question. It is for you. It took, when it, when it would come from the, the, the polar orbit down to Edwards Air Force Base. Does that ring any, do you guys have anything to, to say about that? Do you have any information about those? Yes, UFOs are real.

• 1:50:56Speaker 02

  Alright. You done been told. Yeah. La- la- last question to my buddy, who I saw last night, and then the guys behind him, come and give me a hug separate. So, my buddy, what's up? You're two. Good to see you again, Jimmy. What's on your mind? Ask a question, though. I just, I don't have a question, but I just wanted to raise a toast to all of Perfect, this is how we're gonna add, raise the toast. To Dylan Borland, to the whistleblowers, to everybody who's fighting the good fight to bring the truth. Hold on, hold on. Let, let the guy talk, let the guy talk, but I'm gonna take a video for my mom, because she, my mom couldn't be here, so, so here's the deal. I'm gonna, it's recording. I'm taking a video for my mom, she couldn't be here tonight. What was your thing? You wanted to do a toast? I wanted to make a toast to Dylan Borland, all the other whistleblowers, um, the

• 1:51:41Speaker 02

  super journalists like yourself and, and George Knapp.

• 1:51:43George Knapp?

  And to Mama Corballer.

• 1:51:44Speaker 02

  And Baba Cor, and, and, and everybody who's fighting the good fight. To Mama Corballer.

• 1:51:52Speaker 02

  Mc- Mc- McMinville, McMinville. Just give me the loudest applause you got. Give me something good for Mama Corballer.

• 1:52:12George Knapp?

  So again, we, we covered a lot of ground. It was a fun crowd, uh, and well-informed, too. The people there aren't just, uh, having beers and kicking back and talking UFOs, they've, they've done their homework. And a lot of them are very much up, up on the issues right up to the moment, so, I appreciated the, the, the quality of questions that were asked, and, uh, the conversations that we had, both privately and, and there in, in public.

• 1:52:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not like you're just crammed into these little rooms, like the whole town is kind of popping off. So you go into one bar, you meet somebody, "Oh, man, I want to talk to you about this. This is what happened. I used to be Air Force, this is what I saw." I mean, hundreds and hundreds. I asked everybody, I'm like, "Can I write this down? Can I record it?" Because there's so many people coming to you in a casual setting, not like you're jammed in a room, where you can have real dialogue. So I think that's what makes it so powerful, is it's the entire town is barricaded up, so you can walk around and have fun. It was so cool. We had some good breakfast.

• 1:53:11George Knapp?

  I'm sure Dylan Moreland, who is getting grief from, you know, they have these little chat groups, other whistleblowers, people in that world, who will get on and have these very private conversations back and forth. I'm guessing he's getting a lot of grief from some of the other people who've been in his position, who don't think that's a proper platform for him to unveil stuff, that he shouldn't be going to an event where people have to pay their way to get in. You know, the typical UFO world kind of complaints that happen. Why was that, do you think, that was a good place for us to take Dylan and share his story with the world?

• 1:53:46Speaker 02

  Oh, this was planned opposition. Why was it a good place? You know the answer, but I'll tell everybody right now. Why this was good is because we knew that if this didn't work with ODNI, if this didn't work where they actually go and they have protections, they're going to be unprotected and actually targeted. So we set this up. That's why we didn't announce his name, because you could have been, George, like the speaker, you know, who testified, because you testified too. We purposely didn't say, because we didn't know how this was going to run out with the formal investigation by ODNI. And I'd love to see that unclassified thing, because I would be able to call bullshit on anything they say that's bullshit. But like, why we did this was to protect Dylan,

• 1:54:29Speaker 02

  give him an opportunity to talk to the public. What better way to break the news than to the people instantaneously? But everybody put out clips, they dissected it as usual, like they did with Sleeping Dog. They look at one part and they don't watch the whole thing. So you miss the context, and that's your loss, not ours. So the reason why that we planned this, and there's something else planned. Coming for contact in the desert. But the reason why we planned this one is because it would, it gave us an opportunity to say, hey, we're being fully supported now. Whistleblowers are being fully supported. Everything is great and oh my gosh. And we could, we could praise the investigation by ODNI. Happened to be unfortunately the opposite where we had to spill the beans.

• 1:55:13Speaker 02

  So we really spilled the beans. But that's why, George, because I think you and I both noticed that with journalism these days, if we don't put people in a position where they have to tell the truth, meaning our government, then we have to have a backup plan. And this was the backup plan and it worked perfectly.

• 1:55:35George Knapp?

  You know, you can watch Dylan's body language through the whole exchange while they're on stage and he's squirming and wiggling and he's clearly in some psychic pain there in terms of really worrying what the consequences of him answering questions might be. So we had to be really careful. He had to be really careful because as noted in, in that program, he'd never got DOPS or approval to say in public what he has said. Uh, so you know, there are those who wish him ill, I'm sure. And you know, that was obvious in his discussion, but there were some really sensitive stuff that we did broach. And in order to know for sure that we're on solid ground,

• 1:56:18George Knapp?

  you had to talk to our lawyer, a guy named Chuck.

• 1:56:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. So now the world knows because of sleeping dog, that Chuck McCullough, the first ICIG in human history, 13 years NSA. I think six years, maybe nine years. I'm not sure. FBI, um, now a lawyer and he's been representing you and me as signed. I mean, and I'm, that's important. I want to say that one more time. We are signed with Compass Rose. We've been signed with Compass Rose for a long time. And we kept that secret because we wanted, you know, the best defense is, you know, no bark, all bite. So, so he is our lawyer that came out in Sleeping Dog. He's been our lawyer for a long time and we are signed with Compass Rose. Now, with that said,

• 1:57:05Speaker 02

  Dylan is, we call him a nickname, right? Like, because he's been, first time Dylan and I met in person was a long time after we've been talking. But, you know, he's been through a lot and he's kind of, he's free balling it. Like not, you know, Matt Brown, he went to State Department, really smart. And he got stuff approved like via Doxers style, but through State Department. Dylan is just really what the public asked for. He's telling them everything he can. He testified in front of Congress, but he has to be so careful. Dance between the raindrops because he's on a razor's edge. Now, I, my, my producer, our producer, Michael, said that people were saying I put him on the spot with a question I asked.

• 1:57:49Speaker 02

  Nope. Talk with Chuck. I said, George and I want to say these three things. We were not told them from Dylan. I don't know how he's going to react on stage.

• 1:58:05Speaker 02

  Can I say these things? Because I suspect they are classified until they're said to, to, to, to me and George. But they were said to us on a joint call, George? They were said to us and Chuck said, if they were said to you, you're a journalist's first amendment. You got a duty to report it if it's of public interest. So Dylan is a professional intelligence person. He will know how to dodge you. And boy, did we bring up a few things that people went a little crazy about and they should. So I'm going to list them. First, Project Rubik's Cube. This is not single source reporting. This is something that as journalists, we were told by OD and I.

• 1:58:49Speaker 02

  They told us, so we reported it. But we had already confirmed multiple sourcing on that being a project name related to UAP. Not fully UAP, I don't think. But hey, everybody, public, do your work. Now you know. Second thing we said, George? Pyramid power source. Okay, so that's what OD and I told us was testified to in a skiff from Dylan. Third thing, really strange, was like a hieroglyph on the pyramid. That's what we were told. So there's some power source that you can put the pieces together, has a hieroglyph. And it's non-human intelligence technology allegedly.

• 1:59:30Speaker 02

  And that's something that allegedly Dylan Borland told and drew pictures of in his ICIG complaint, which is filmed. And so OD and I should be able to get that. When we asked George, when we asked Dylan, I didn't want to even look at him. Because I knew, I was putting him on the spot, but also I knew that like he, because we've known him for years. I knew that he absolutely has never crossed the line with us. Never drew anything like that for us. He'll never say it in a public setting. So it wasn't really putting him on the spot. I think he's grateful and relieved for me to say that. Now, he didn't confirm nor deny it. But he did say something really interesting.

• 2:00:12Speaker 02

  He says, like, in a public setting like this that isn't classified, I'm basically forced to say, I cannot confirm nor deny, which is a very interesting preamble. And then what he said after is he says, like, given, I don't know the exact words, but given the proper authorities or whistleblower protections, I would love to tell you what I know. Wow. He handled that so expertly. So if OD and I is correct, and he drew a pyramid power source with a hieroglyph on it that is of non-human intelligence, that was part of his original non-public ICIG complaint, right?

• 2:00:55Speaker 02

  If that and Project Rubik's Cube, if he said that like they told us that he did, then do we have a story or what? Because that's not single source to you and me. We've heard that before.

• 2:01:08George Knapp?

  Yeah, pyramid power source doesn't mean you're flying pyramids. It means it's a pyramid shaped power source for craft that is beyond anything that we know of human technology. So it is pretty exciting. The purpose of Rubik's Cube, it's a little more vague, but I'm sure that there's a lot of UFO detectives out there who are able to be on the on the trail of that right now from here on.

• 2:01:36Speaker 02

  They should be. I mean, obviously, if you FOIA, you know, we know people that do a lot of FOIAs and, you know, they get so mad, they don't give shit because they're not talking to people. So they get some good stuff sometimes, and I love it that we get it like Dustin Slaughter. Dustin Slaughter got the Moser orb video. George, did you notice in the in the last in the first public release of footage that we released seven images, I think, of something called the Baghdad Phantom? And if people look closely, they'll notice that that would be a Central Command bottleneck inside of the end. What we did was we notified the Pentagon that even people that were supposed to be getting these great UFO reports aren't getting them because

• 2:02:20Speaker 02

  of a bottleneck that we identified within Central Command, and that was proof of it. It was called the Baghdad Phantom. And people said, oh, that's nothing, blah, blah, blah. Well, we didn't have the ability to put out the video. However, in the first data dump of UFOs to their absolute credit, Baghdad Phantom is there. And not only that, not just the Baghdad Phantom, the mission report. So don't you don't have to listen to Arrow. Listen to what look at what the pilot wrote about that report, and you will be on to it. You know, these are amazing trained professionals, and it's just matter of fact what they saw, what they thought.

• 2:02:59Speaker 02

  Can read that that report. So you know transparency is working, journalism is working. I'll tell you one other thing I'm very proud about. Which is that the forty six videos. So you and I have released number two. We did that way before. Uh, when we're telling people there's forty six videos. So we we gave those file names. They're not just names. If you put like underscores and you have like um a classified server that's like intel link and it's on a certain server. You can click it, right? And you'll get into that file. So not only. Did we get told directly by Representative Luna? Who is an absolute fighter with Representative Burleson and Representative Burch and a bunch of people who are we're not going to name right now.

• 2:03:45Speaker 02

  We found out. That they have made a they smoked a peace pipe with Arrow all of a sudden. And these forty six videos coming out. Now why? Wow. In Sleeping Dog. We show eight of our acquired. P assets. They know that this is coming out. Come hell or high water with or without them. So you know, look, force them, push them, provoke them. It's all about transparency. It's a presidential damn mandate. So now we could sit back as journalists. And we'll tell you if they put out the real videos because those George, those will be source files. You know how everybody says like, oh, it's blurry, the frame rate, Jeremy, they try to make all this shit online.

• 2:04:29Speaker 02

  George, they're gonna release, they have to release. They have to release the original files. Now they'll obscure some important stuff. I don't want to be clear. They they'll probably obscure like the the the angle of the planes or the angle of the U A P, the speed of the U A P. I mean, if you trust our journalism, maybe we'll fill in the blanks if they don't give you all the information so you can assess if it's a U A P. Some of it is not fully assessed. Right there. Some of it's not fully assessed. Some of it will be prosaic, but that's the whole point. Get it out to the American public. But other things like number two on that list. That is a product from the intelligence agency, a full examination.

• 2:05:12Speaker 02

  They determine U A P instantaneous acceleration at a high level. And we know the guy that ordered the report, he came on weaponized. So my rant here is basically.

• 2:05:23Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, a documentary investigatory investigative film by Michael LaCatt. Michael Lazovsky actually made a difference because these eight videos provoked a response. You see what I'm saying?

• 2:05:39George Knapp?

  I do see what you're saying. You know, it goes back to the dump, the Trump dump of all the documents a couple of weeks ago. One of the big complaints was there's no analysis, there's no data to go along with it, you know? This is an example of what they should be releasing. The Baghdad Phantom, there's a report behind it that fills in the blanks. Now, when we've released these videos over the years, we've tell people, look, we're not deciding it's a UAP, they decided it. The military, the intelligence community, they're the ones making that determination. And for all of those where it's the object is undetermined of undetermined origin, it's those guys who are making the assignment of putting it in that category, not us. And if they're going to release more videos, they should release all the analysis that

• 2:06:24George Knapp?

  goes with them so people can understand what they're seeing. Example, one of the complaints SCU made about the Trump dump of UFO material is all the metadata was stripped from the videos. So the people investigators want to dive into that stuff and confirm where and when these things happen can't do it because it's just a copy of it, not the original data included on there. You know, we were, we discussed the alien girls last time, the GAO assigned agents who are investigating the performance of Arrow and how it handles UFO witnesses. And we thought, oh, this looks like trouble for Arrow. Representative Luna has said a couple of times she wants to get rid of that outfit.

• 2:07:05George Knapp?

  These girls, gals, I shouldn't say girls, gals from the GAO were out there, they'd done, visited 16 military bases that we know of at the time that we were given the information, and they were getting rounded, getting down to the nitty gritty. Since that's, that information came out, though, it looks like Representative Luna and Burleson and Burchett have made peace with Arrow, with John Kozlowski, the director, who, as we've said many times, is a vast improvement over his predecessor, Sean Kirkpatrick. And now it looks like they've smoked the peace pipe, there's a new era, a new relationship there, so maybe Arrow. is now on board with the same goals that that Congress has in mind. And then lastly, Burleson, Representative Burleson says,

• 2:07:52George Knapp?

  hey, I, the White House called me, they're looking for new direction on where they should go. What, what should we release next? Confirming our suspicions that really the stuff that was released is just, hey, let's everybody grab something and put it out the door. They didn't really have a plan in mind. They didn't really think about what they were releasing other than, does it violate national security? And now they're turning to Burleson, who's going to be able to give them an earful about what other stuff should be released in the future. So there are a lot of positive signs of where this thing seems to be heading right now.

• 2:08:24Speaker 02

  This next release should be extremely powerful. And if it's not, Houston, we have a problem. Because we, you know, we saw, I mean, you know, first of all, Rep. Burleson in, in, in our communications, he is fighting so hard and I like, he's been put in such a crazy situation. Um, a, and Rep. Luna, the way that she is handling, remember she was trying to defund Arrow and then, you know, she reaches out to us and the next, and next thing we know, she's got this photo with Kozlovsky, who says he can't even part his own hair without authority. I am so grateful for him. I was so worried for him. Like he was like in Project Blue Box.

• 2:09:06Speaker 02

  It was worse than Project Blue Book. It was like a box, couldn't get out. Man, I bet this guy wants to get this out to the scientific community. I bet he's a good guy like we've heard. And now because of presidential authority and the bond that he and Luna seem to have made in the agreement on releasing the forty, well, now five videos, because we already released one of those. But remember, George, we also gave them fourteen Air Force videos, but we had, we had already released two. So one is of the, the Air Force, the DISC, they called it a DISC UAP. And then the other one was Baghdad Phantom. So they never publicized that, which I think was smart. It's in a much more secure file system and it's a bottleneck. They're probably investigating at CENTCOM, but

• 2:09:49Speaker 02

  I, I really do have hope. I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm super excited. I, I do want to say something about this last event and a guy that I met. And then I do also want to say something about what happens next. So the guy that I met, now I'm gonna butcher this. I'm really bad. But I was there with Dylan and his family. And I was like, I'm just gonna leave some shit in my room. I haven't done that since 2016, nor have I traveled over out of the country since 2016 for very specific reasons. And um, did you see all those, my mom sending me all these things like where I wore sunglasses on Chris Ramsey's podcast and everybody says I was high or something. Did you see that?

• 2:10:32George Knapp?

  Uh, I heard some of that. Yeah. Right.

• 2:10:34Speaker 02

  Oh my God, people were so-

• 2:10:36George Knapp?

  So what were you on anyway? What were you taking?

• 2:10:38Speaker 02

  I was high on life, baby.

• 2:10:41Speaker 02

  So for as a judge, I was just like, I was, I, I get migraines if I get bright lights. That's skiff Ramsey. Your skiff is too bright, bro. You gotta bring it down. Anyway, it's funny, but here's the guy that I met. I'm, I'm sitting there. And it was like, I'm gonna leave the room. And everything's cool. No, you know, no one's gonna get in here. I didn't have to like set up on my camera, stuff like that, which I normally do when I travel like here.

• 2:11:03Speaker 02

  Next thing I know, we get back, everything's intact and the door starts opening. And it's a dude and I don't recognize him. His name is Matthew. Am I butcher it? Sodakis Matthew?

• 2:11:15George Knapp?

  Close enough, yeah.

• 2:11:17Speaker 02

  This dude is awesome. So, so that's how we met. He says that he was breaking in his room. And I said, he's breaking in my room. So it was this funny way to meet the guy, but let me tell you, I, I, George, we gotta have him on. This guy has done ice topic analysis that people don't know about yet. People don't know what this guy's done yet. And he's a real genuine actor and, and, and also by the way, George onstage was a representative of SETI. You know, and, and you know, she was a little distant, like UFO conference. She had to be overwhelmed by it, but she did seem honest and forthright and really interested- I want to tell her like their techniques are way outdated, but you know, we didn't have time to really talk. But it was just cool. We had somebody from SETI there at our little party, right?

• 2:12:02Speaker 02

  And and Matthew Sidakis, who is just an incredible teacher and researcher and has done ice topic analysis. I'm gonna let him talk for himself, but we gotta have him on Weaponized George.

• 2:12:13George Knapp?

  Absolutely. Great. I want to give one other news item before we wrap it up. And I saw this on social media, this announcement 10 minutes before we started to record. So I don't have many of the details, but it's about, it was a lawsuit filed against the NSA back in the earliest days of FOIA. And the guy who wrote it up was an attorney named Peter Gersten. That's not a well-known name anymore, but he was a rock of Gibraltar in the earliest days of FOIA and ufology, trying to squeeze secrets out of the government. And he'd filed this lawsuit against the NSA, the National Security Agency, which denied, of course, that it has any files related to UFOs.

• 2:12:54George Knapp?

  Then it was, then they had a legal proceeding where they, they had to, NSA had to submit in camera the files that they did have, or at least a synopsis of those files. So a judge got to look at it behind closed doors and issue a ruling. And he said, well, we can release this. But it's also basically everything that's in that six or seven pages was blacked out. In the old days at UFO conferences, you'd have Stan Friedman stand up with this document and show people, hey, almost everything in this thing is blacked out. You've seen that video, right? Well, he was working with Peter Gersten, who his first organization was something called Ground Saucer Watch. And the second organization was Citizens Against UFO Secrecy Cause.

• 2:13:39George Knapp?

  So he filed that back in the, I think it's in the 70s or early 80s. Now, they have finally forced the NSA all these years later to go ahead and release this stuff. Now, I don't know what's in it, but I'm gonna, as soon as we finish wrapping up here, I'm gonna dive in and take a look at it. But congratulations to Peter Gersten, a giant in this field who really was a pioneer. And maybe we can get him on the show too, if we can chalk him down.

• 2:14:03Speaker 02

  That'd be amazing. So it can work with certain people like the person you just mentioned, also with like Dustin Slaughter, who got a video that we had put out an image of. It can work. So, look. Everybody, put on your UFO battle helmets. Let's go to war right now because this is a moment where things tend to be redacted. And if the government doesn't do their job, the onus is on them, right? They've said now, time for transparency. And I loved it when our lawyer Chuck says, Jeremy, you don't just have a right for you and George to talk about that. You have a duty. It's a public interest. So I was like, okay, here we go. All right, George. Well, listen,

• 2:14:45Speaker 02

  I'm gonna leave you with this. It's a long episode for people, but wow, it's packed full of stuff. The one place we didn't mention is contact. And I will be there. And I just want to say, I'm gonna be at contact. There's a reason we're gonna be there. There's a reason I'm gonna be there, George. Is that okay to say? There's a reason. Yeah. Okay, so you're going, right?

• 2:15:06George Knapp?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:06Speaker 02

  It was so hard. George almost didn't make it all the way to McMinnville, but I got him there like the nuclear football. That's my job. I got him there. So at contact, we have a reason to be there. Don't miss it.

• 2:15:21George Knapp?

  All right, that's good for us for now. I might take a day off, Jeremy. I know that's not allowed under the reprimanded code of conduct, but I'm really thinking of maybe a whole day without UFOs, you know, in my, in my life for 24 hours. We'll see if that's possible. I'll let you know how it goes.

• 2:15:38Speaker 02

  Oh, while you're scheduling a mystery wire episode that Michael has to go on, right? Yeah.

• 2:15:43George Knapp?

  The first 10 years I was doing this, I'm going through the same stuff that you're going through now. Bouncing off the walls, up and down peaks and valleys, scared shitless, worried about what comes next. Corbella is an investigative journalist who helped detain and release the DOD footage of UFOs. I'm afraid he's gonna die.

• 2:16:01Speaker 04

  Years ago, I went searching for the truth about UFOs. To really understand the full picture, I'm gonna start where it all began. They have between 30 and 50 alien bodies. The position of trust I have at the highest levels, being briefed into all the national secrets.

• 2:16:21George Knapp?

  They're gonna come after you, not only you, they're gonna come after your family. If I die, this story comes out.

• 2:16:30George Knapp?

  When things are going really bad, and there's been periods of real bad, ups and downs. Is that the best you got?