What Really Matters When Raising Boys: Consent, Peer Pressure & Doing the Right Thing

In this episode, a special recording of a live event with the Good Inside community in response to recent headlines about sexual assault, Dr. Becky shares three emotional skills we can start building in our boys today.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  This episode is dropping in your feed on an off day, but not because it's bonus content or a nice to have. It's because I think it's so important. And honestly, I wanted every parent to hear it. I want to talk about boys and consent. But what you're going to hear is probably from a slightly different perspective than how I often hear the conversation go. And I want to start with something I think we get wrong when we talk to boys about consent. And it's going to sound a little weird at first, but stay with me because I think it might completely change what you start to pay attention to in everyday moments with your son. We tend to focus only on knowledge. A lot of us, me too. We've had conversations like this with our boys. Should you respect someone's no? Uh, yeah, Mom. Hey, if someone changes their mind, would you stop?

• 0:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Dad, obviously, yes. What would you do if your friends were doing something wrong or being disrespectful? I would speak up. Okay, let me be clear. This is good. Our boys know the right answers and knowledge matters. Knowledge is a very important first step. But hear me out. Knowing the right answer and being able to access what you know in an emotionally charged moment are two very different things. And let's be honest, we know this from our own lives, you and I. Should we yell at our kids? No, you could ask me all the questions and I would have the right answers. But we both still do sometimes. None of us have a knowledge problem.

• 1:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I think we have to take that idea so much more seriously with our boys. Because by the time a boy is in a high stakes moment involving consent, he is not walking into that moment with knowledge alone. He's walking in with years of emotional patterns and circuitry that have been practiced over and over again. He'll bring those into the moment. What has that boy already learned about how disappointment works? Not from a textbook, but from his experiences. Has he learned that disappointment is a feeling he can tolerate and is expected to tolerate? Or has he learned that his disappointment is someone else's responsibility to take away?

• 2:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  How practiced is that boy at noticing what another person's cues are? Their face, their body, the moment something shifts? And where has this boy been encouraged even subtly to look when he's not sure what's right? At what everyone else is doing? Or at what he is noticing inside himself? Because all of that comes to the party with him. All of that loads onto that moment. And this is why I wanted to release this conversation more widely. Because I think we're missing a key part of the conversation about raising boys. What I'm sharing is an abbreviated edited version of a live event I did inside the Good Inside community.

• 2:56Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  After so many parents there wanted to go much deeper than an Instagram post about the sexual assault allegations at Cornell in terms of, well, what does it mean for raising my boy who's young today? Now, I want to be really clear. I do not believe that parenting causes or prevents any of these outcomes. I believe that childhood is one place. Human beings repeatedly practice the emotional skills they will later need in much higher stakes moments. And so what I'm about to share, it lives somewhere in between powerlessness and a guarantee. It is not everything. And it isn't nothing.

• 3:40Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Now, one thing you won't experience as you listen, and I need to name it because it was such a huge part of the event, was what happened in the chat. And chat kind of undersells what it was. It was so powerful to hear other people's stories in a space that felt safe and to do what humans do best. Listen, understand, and make meaning together on a topic that both brings up so many fears for our kids. Write along so many of our own painful memories and experiences from our own past. Fair warning, in case this isn't for you, or if you just want to moderate who's around while you listen, there's some cursing by me.

• 4:17Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I was fired up about this topic. I still am. You can probably hear it in my voice. And apparently that gets reflected in some of my vocabulary choices. Finally, I want to share this from a true place of my own fear and vulnerability. But I debated putting this out there because I worry that what I'm about to share could be interpreted through a one thing is true lens. Wait, so you're talking about all the factors that led to this horrific behavior? Are you saying it's not that person's fault? I'm not saying that. I believe people are fully accountable for their behavior. And I believe that we have to be deeply curious about all the different factors that tend to lead to that type behavior. I'm holding those two things as true at the same time. Full accountability, full curiosity.

• 5:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I don't know how else we could ever help people change or help other people get to a different outcome.

• 5:09Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  All right, let's get into it.

• 5:19Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay, three things I want to acknowledge before there are three big themes I want to talk to you about. Okay, number one.

• 5:30Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Reading, seeing a story like what's happening at Cornell, the sexual assault allegations, I just want to name it does not just make us think about raising our kids. I think it brings a lot of us right back to experiences we've had in our own lives. Right, I always think the body I have today is the same body I was born with, right? You too. Which just means it's the collector, it's the holder of every single experience. And we don't get to pick and choose which ones like stay closed. And when something evokes emotion in the news, it evokes an emotion in our body where a story has been held. Or maybe we don't have a story. It's just like a collection of disparate memories. And whether we want to or not, it all comes up.

• 6:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And so that's probably going on for a lot of us. I don't have, I don't have a quick or a slow solution to that. I just want to name it.

• 6:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I also think this can make us look back on something where we didn't understand it and think, wait, like, did I want that? Did I ever want that? Did I tell myself a story? Because I'm used to trying to come back to the center and maybe now that didn't feel good at all. And that's normal too. Okay.

• 6:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Two. We are not parenting in a vacuum. I am very aware of my passion for psychology and the limitations of psychology. I'm a big fan of two things are true, right? Not choosing a side in a way. Our boys are growing up in a much bigger culture. They are taking in messages from social media, from pornography, from friends, from sports culture, fraternity culture, text culture, the way people talk about girls and women, the way groups talk to each other when adults aren't around. And they're constantly learned what gets laughed at. What, oh, I guess people say that and it's not a big deal.

• 7:21Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  What gets rewarded? What gets excused? What gets normalized? What power looks like? What masculinity looks like? What it means to belong?

• 7:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know, I think a lot about how a boy gets angry during a game and he's competitive and has fire. And a girl gets angry and she's dramatic and making a big deal out of nothing. A friend does something you know is wrong and you're caught between like quote, doing the right thing and loyalty. And is loyalty keeping our mouth shut? And how did I absorb that? Because I don't feel like my parents teach me that, but it's happening around me, right? None of these moments on their own seem like a big deal. But our boys are absorbing very, very loud cultural messages outside of our home. And again, I just need to name that for all of us. I think we're all aware. And oddly enough, that brings me to point three. Okay. Which is in some ways why parenting matters more than ever.

• 8:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I want to be clear about this because I think I say that and people will say, so what I do at home will overpower the culture around my son? No. But I just think it's the wrong question.

• 8:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I think the better question is, can I establish patterns in my home, knowing they have an inordinately large impact on my son? So what feels familiar to my son based on those patterns later? When he encounters something that will feel at odds with everything he's learned in our home until that point?

• 8:59Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  It's not overpowering culture. It's having what's called dissonance. What's dissonance? It's nothing that fancy. I think dissonance, okay, is our ability to say, huh? What? I don't know about that. That doesn't really have a magnet in my body to attach to. Now, do I think that's the answer? That your kid has that experience and then everything's good in the world? I don't know. I'm a realist, okay? But I do know that childhood establishes what's familiar and normal in the body. And if my son learns, I can be disappointed and nobody has to fix that feeling for me.

• 9:40Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  If my son learns, I've learned how to notice other people before they put words to their experience.

• 9:49Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I learned to trust an internal voice and not just pay attention to what's happening in the group. Those things feel familiar. They feel like home.

• 9:58Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And then later, when he's around something dehumanizing, disgusting, something everyone's going along with and normalizing, he's going to have a sense of, I don't know. There's going to be dissonance. Now again, what does that promise us? Nothing. I'm not, there's not a one to one. But I know that matters, not because parenting has overpowered culture, because what that kid is encountering doesn't match what he's practiced and seen and experienced over and over again. All right.

• 10:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Let's jump in.

• 10:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  My overall thesis that I've been thinking a lot about, okay, not thesis, that sounds too clean, but is that I think we spend too much time making sure our boys know the right answer and not enough time helping them build the emotional skills to act on that knowledge when it costs them something.

• 10:51Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Should you respect someone's no? Yes. Do you think you should speak up when something bad is happening? Yes, Mom, yes, Dad.

• 11:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Our kids ace that test. But now add in rejection, which might happen. Add wanting to belong. Add if I say something, my friends are going to turn on me. If our kids don't have the emotional skills and the practice to manage those moments, knowing the right answer won't necessarily translate to doing the right thing. And you and I know this. I have a question for you. Should you yell at your kids? No, Becky, are you going to yell at your kids tonight? No. Well, what if I'm overwhelmed? What if I haven't been taking care of myself? What if it's the exact moment that triggers me? I know the right thing. If I don't have the emotional skills, knowing the right thing doesn't translate.

• 11:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  It's a precursor. I have to know the right thing to do the right thing. But what's in between our emotional skills in the moment?

• 11:56Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So let's talk about three patterns that really matter when our kids are young.

• 12:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  That matter to establish in lower stakes moments now that build the emotional skills boys will need when the stakes are higher.

• 12:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I want to make sure before we go in, I'm talking about patterns. Okay? I'm not talking about a pattern isn't anything 100%, right? So everything I talk about, please don't take in through, okay, if I don't do that one time, my kid isn't. No, no, no, no. Patterns 80% of the time, something we're going to do from this point forward more often than we did, that's the best it gets. Okay, number one. We must help our kids handle not getting what they want. Our sons must learn to hear no and learn to tolerate their own distress. Translation, set boundaries, real ones, and let your kid be upset. I'll say it again, that's the simplest version.

• 12:56Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Set boundaries, real ones, let your kid be upset. So let's jump into this. You have to say no to your kid, and then you have to let your kid be upset about your no. There is no better practice for the type of situations we want our boys to be emotionally prepared for than every time we say no to seemingly unrelated things to those consent situations later. It's the same skill. Every time your kid really wants something and you say no, now to be clear, not randomly. So say no, that doesn't work, but because you actually believe it's the best thing for your kid long term. Your kid is not just processing that moment.

• 13:38Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Invisibly underneath, your kid is forming rules about how relationships work.

• 13:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So maybe I'm saying no to ice cream, screen time, a play date for some reason, whatever it is, that's not what our kid takes in. This is what your kid takes in. What happens when I want something and another person doesn't give it to me? What happens? Think about the implications. When I want something, someone else doesn't give it to me.

• 14:07Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  The patterns that we have in childhood will help your son answer the question in one of two ways. Ready? One pattern. Wow, disappointment stinks. It's like really stinks. I really don't like this feeling. And I'm seeing over time, I don't really start liking it, but I am able to handle it. You know what else I'm realizing? It's not your fault that I feel disappointed. And it's not your job to make this feeling in me go away. I can be disappointed. I can handle it, and our relationship can still be okay.

• 14:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Or they learn a very different lesson. When I'm disappointed, something has gone wrong between us and your job, your job is to fix this. Your job is to change your mind so I can feel better. And if you don't, oh, my disappointment is your fault. You did it to me. You did this feeling to me, and you could take it away, but you won't. And empathy, these people talk about? What empathy? I'm not going to have empathy for you. You are the aggressor. You did this to me.

• 15:14Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  That sounds extreme. It's not. If we consistently think it's our job to take away our kids disappointment, to bring them into happy, they're learning a much bigger lesson than being taken out of ice cream every time. And those two lessons are blueprint our kids take into the relationships they have outside our homes.

• 15:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Very practical examples, little kids. One more show, one more book, leaving the playground, whatever you're saying that you know helps your family run, this is the right thing. Your kid's not going to applaud you. They're not going to say, good idea. You, when they're really upset, after you say, one show, and then you turn it off, we're leaving the playground in five minutes, sweetie. And if it's too hard for you to leave, I will pick you up and carry you to the car. Yes, this stuff happens that young, too. You really wanted another show. I know, we're done. TV is off, remote's already in your hand, and then you stop talking. That's the intervention. I know you wanted another book. You can give me the book you wanted, and I'm going to take it out so I remember it tomorrow, but I'm not reading anymore tonight, sweetie. Stop talking. Older kids.

• 16:21Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Maybe your kid's wanting to go somewhere, and they're not really being clear, like, who, what car are you getting in to go 45 minutes away? And you kind of hear, like, I don't even know or trust that person. Everyone else's parents let them. Maybe they do, right? I believe you. And I'm still saying no. I know you wish my answer was different. The decision's already been made. My favorite line recently. This decision's already been made.

• 16:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I stop talking.

• 16:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I know what you're thinking, okay? But then my kid is upset.

• 16:55Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I have like this kineia shift, okay?

• 16:59Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  No. And then your kid is upset. I know that seems semantics. It's not, not but then. And then is your kid is upset? Yeah, like people feel when someone stops them from getting what they want. This is literally the situation you and I are dreaming for. If only I had opportunities to help my kids see they're not always going to get what they want, that other people, and especially their moms, who are an example of women to them, don't always think it's their job to relieve your disappointment. This is a dream scenario for me. I mean, not like dream scenario enjoyable. It's 0% enjoyable, okay?

• 17:41Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  But dream scenario, if I really want to be on this project of raising good kids. We're practicing now.

• 17:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And the thing I think that is so important to know, and I realize I need to say more often, this takes years. But my kid has a huge reaction, Dr. Becky. But my kid, and then we have, we have all these labels, and they all matter. They all matter. They're all real, whatever the label is. But then it's almost like we use the label not to understand them, but to like, stop doing the thing all kids need. Nobody is supposed to always get what they want. The kids who have the biggest reactions, even more proof, this is such a worthy project. That's terrifying in 10 years. That's the kid I better really work on my boundaries with. Oh, my goodness. Not to become a dictator, no, but to actually do this out of love for my son.

• 18:39Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So it takes a really long time. Thousands of experiences. And I think that thought, well, it's not working. He's still furious. Your goal isn't that your kid stops being furious. The goal is over thousands of experiences, something starts to change in what he does with the fury. That's all. Fury's still there. What he does with it changes thousands of experiences. So say this with me. The boundary is my job. The disappointment is his. Now, that doesn't mean I don't care. Stop making the big deal. No, I care. It's just not mine. Isn't that literally the whole thing we want boys to realize? Women don't own your disappointment. That's your disappointment. That literally lives in your body.

• 19:25Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Women aren't the caretakers and the problem solvers of your disappointment. It's toxic.

• 19:34Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay. Here's something really important. What about when the disappointment turns to blame? And again, you can write me true if you're like, this happens somehow. And I think this pattern is really important. Okay?

• 19:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  There's this pattern where my son gets disappointed. And it's like someone else's fault. It's not just like protest, fault. Like, you did this to me. You ruined my day. If you actually cared about me, you'd let me watch another show. Just hear that through our new lens. If you actually cared about me, you'd blank. There are kids who say that. There's personality. I'm going to be honest, these are the kids, oh my goodness, we've got to commit to this project. We have to commit to this project. We have to take this seriously and not say, and I mean this, you're here. This is not a one time thing for you. Because underneath those sentences, a belief is starting to take shape.

• 20:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  My feeling is your problem. You caused it, so you have to fix it. This looks almost harmless in a five year old. It is not harmless in a 20 year old. No way. Disappointment is inevitable. The question isn't whether our kids will feel disappointed. It's whether they learn to experience disappointment as their own feeling that eventually they see they can manage, or as evidence, someone has wronged them and now owes them relief. So what do we do? We don't say, stop blaming me to our five year old. We don't shame them for being entitled. And we're going to really, really try hard not to give in until the feeling disappears. Because that's the perpetuation. We hold the boundary with fewer words.

• 21:17Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And we think, maybe put little words to what's happening underneath. I'm going to model this. You ruined my whole night. Not paying into that. You ruined my whole night. You know what I'm going to say back? You wish I'd say yes. You're disappointed. That's all. And by the way, is my son going to say back to me? Oh, my goodness, you're so right. Yeah, you're right. This is my disappointment, not your responsibility. Zero percent. And he might even say, stop saying that. I'm still going to say it sometimes. I'm not using my kid's reaction as a barometer for whether I said the thing that has to be said sometimes. No way. This is, okay, this is a big one. You promised, so you have to. You promised you'd take me to ice cream.

• 22:01Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You promised I could watch a show, so you have to. I did say we'd go. And I get why you're pissed that the plan changed. We're not going. We are not trying to get our kids to admit that we're right. We are trying to help rewire a pattern that's started for me. And we have time. The pattern, I'm disappointed, you caused this, you need to fix it. I'm disappointed, this is a feeling in my body, I can cope with it. I want you to start listening for this everywhere. Because there's a huge difference between those coaches are so biased, it's bullshit. And I'm embarrassed I didn't make the team.

• 22:46Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  There's a big difference between those refs sucked, seriously sucked. And I can't believe we lost to that team. And there's a big difference, ooh, between you have to take me to ice cream, you promised. And wait, you said we'd go and now we can't? That sucks. I'm pissed. Now, let me just say, sometimes the coach is biased. Sometimes the ref did make a bad call. And sometimes you do promise your kid something and then the day changes and now you can't. My heart's racing, okay? But you know what else? Sometimes a group text seems funny until it doesn't. Sometimes you're thinking all day about having sex with a girl you've been flirting with.

• 23:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Maybe she even sends you a direct text, essentially promising sex that night. And then she changes her fucking mind. That happens. No one owes our boys continued humor. No one owes our boys and later men, the fulfillment of their sexual desire. Our boys owe other people the ability to tolerate their own disappointment without turning it into entitlement. And so the next time we all are thinking, is it really worth holding the boundary about screen time or dessert or bedtime? Ask yourself a different question.

• 24:14Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Is it worth helping my kid get better at handling this feeling? Because the lower stakes moments are where the emotional skills get built before the stakes are high. And holy shit, are our kids going to need them. Your son will need them. Ooh. My heart's racing, I'm just going to give myself a moment. Okay. Second point I want to make. We must help our boys notice other people. If step one is kind of helping our boys notice and tolerating the feelings in them. Number two is kind of a compliment. We have to help our boys get better at noticing what's happening outside themselves.

• 24:59Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Other people's faces, their bodies, their reactions, the room, the environment. Right? Like, think about the next time your son interrupts you on the phone. I get it, me too. Stop interrupting me. Go beyond the behavioral level. And this is a nice conversation, not a mean one. Hey, when you came into my room, did you notice I was on the phone? What? What do you think that means? I mean it, you're not in trouble. What, what do you think that means? What do you think that means about how available I am? And it's so interesting, whenever I think about these words, they're all the same words. How available I, am I right now to do the thing you want me to do? Yeah, I wasn't so available. So glad we see that now. Your son is teasing his sister. She laughs.

• 25:44Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Then she stops laughing and looks at the floor and he keeps going. So instead of just, stop bothering your sister, what's wrong with you? What if we try later? Hold on. You're not in trouble. I just actually want to figure something out with you. Your sister laughed, right? And then she went from like seeming into it and liking it. And then, did you just notice something? Oh, you didn't? I'll, I'll say it, it's new. She looked at the floor. So interesting. So often people are tell you, are telling you what's going on for them with their body, not their words. What do you think she's saying? Hmm, you're not sure? That's okay. This is a new skill, we're going to keep practicing it. I think she's saying, I don't like that anymore.

• 26:28Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I wonder if she's saying, please stop. We want our sons to have practice noticing that was good. And now someone's not into it. Right? Because one day, our sons are going to be hooking up with someone and they'll seem into it. And then something will shift. And it'll kind of be that same circuit. Hold on. I've already had practice noticing someone joining me in excitement. To me still being excited and them not. This isn't my first time. My first time really practicing that? While sex hormones are going through my body and maybe drugs or alcohol are involved? Like, can't be the first time.

• 27:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Can do better than that. Right? Noticing. And that's a really powerful word just to start using. What if I thought about noticing as a skill? You know, I also think you can do this in your environment. Instead of like giving your kids chores, what if they take a zone? I love this idea. Your zone is the kitchen. And at least once a day, you just go notice something and then you do it. Right? Instead of just being told what to do. Oh, you noticed that the counter was dirty? That's amazing noticing. And then you cleaned it. Awesome. You're no longer just telling your kid what to do and they don't build the skill of noticing. Noticing people, noticing nonverbal cues.

• 27:57Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Think of this like as a skill and it almost takes away our anger. And again, it's like, this is great practice. Okay, the third thing we must do. We must help our kids think for themselves and trust themselves, even when the group pulls the other way. If your friends were all texting something really disrespectful about a girl, what would you do? I would tell them to stop. Okay, great. This kid knows the right answer. Again, knowing the right answer is a necessary and completely insufficient part of actually doing the right thing in the moment. Right? Again, I have a question. Who knows the right answer? Write me if you know the right answer about scrolling on your phone before bed.

• 28:42Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Me? Me?

• 28:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right? Nope. If that knowledge is insufficient.

• 28:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Nope.

• 28:55Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Like, it's actually just a basic behavioral principle. Teaching knowledge and having emotional skills to apply knowledge, just totally different things. Right?

• 29:07Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Your kids know the right answer, right? So we have to help them and helping them involves getting real. Like, we have to be honest about it, right? So our kids and our son will tell us at the kitchen, like, I would tell them to stop. But now picture it's his best friend who started it. It's his soccer team. Right? And he kind of knows something doesn't feel right, but saying something is a legitimate risk. And like, again, as a world, and this is such an, is it why I feel safe talking in this community? We can hold nuance. It's a risk. Oh, it's a risk to do the right thing.

• 29:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Well, kind of. Like, if we're not gonna be moralistic and we want to be realistic, you know what's real to that 14-year-old? His friends are gonna say, "You're a loser." His friends might not invite him to the next Friday night. Like, sure, is it a risk morally? No. Is it a risk personally? For what a kid and an adult is thinking, it is. And I'm not afraid to name that, because I think if we don't name that, how are we ever gonna help with the real-life situations these things happen in? We have to be real.

• 30:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So I want you to picture, so let me pause for a second. I also think there's another element of this, okay? We'll get to the risk. We, I think, in so much of parenting, completely unintentionally undermine our kids' intuition for the sake of our or the perceived sense of comfort we're giving to our kid. I think the number one thing to even manage the risk of being different is we have to at least start by helping our kid trust themselves enough to even know, hold on, this is all messed up. Picture an eighth grader, okay? It's Friday night. Everyone is going to someone's house. Maybe you have friends with all the parents of those boys.

• 31:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And everyone's like, "Oh, you guys, our boys are all going to this house." And you're like, "That's so weird. My son isn't going. My son actually messaged me from school saying he's just gonna be in tonight."

• 31:12Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So you ask your son at home, and he's like, "Nah, I don't really wanna go." Now, I wanna be honest, okay? I do this too. This is not above this.

• 31:21Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  It's so hard to be at our best. It's so easy, like, "What? Why do you want to stay home? All your friends are going. Come on, go have fun."

• 31:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Like, what if underneath, "I don't wanna go," is something he can't even articulate, but it's, like, I just know the parents aren't gonna be home and there's gonna be alcohol. There's this group of kids coming, and whenever they're around, it's bad news. "Yeah, I guess all my friends are going, but I'm just kind of tired and I'd rather get sleep." Something about this doesn't feel right to me. Whenever I think about it, I'm like, "Holy shit." Am I the one, as the parent, questioning the very thing that I would want my kid to listen to in a couple of years and they're out of my house?

• 32:06Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I guess I am.

• 32:08Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right? There's gonna be a feeling, and I believe our boys still have this of like, "Yeah, no, I'm not into that. This isn't okay. I'm leaving. I wanna stop this. I'm telling someone. I don't wanna do what you guys are doing."

• 32:23Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I don't want the voice after to be, "Well, I'm supposed to want what everyone else wants. Maybe I'm wrong."

• 32:32Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  If I teach my kid to orient too much to the group, I end up sometimes teaching my son that his hesitation is wrong, that other people have a better read on what he should do than he does.

• 32:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And that's what I think we really need to stop teaching. Now, again, there's nuance. This doesn't mean our kids' inclinations are always right. "Oh, you wanna stay home, stay home. For all I know, my kid is always staying home and on video games, and they no longer even wanna talk to other kids." Like, there's nuance here. But remember, like, helping your kid trust what he's feeling doesn't always mean his feelings will dictate his decision, but it does mean that feeling is real in some way. There's something to listen to or just be curious about. And that's, I think, the thing we need to do more of. Get curious. It is the parenting superpower. I actually just am obsessed with questions. I'm just obsessed with questions.

• 33:30Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Like, I have so many more questions after someone asks me one thing. I'm like, "I can't answer that question. I need to know 20 things." I guess, I guess I think whatever someone says, whether it's a statement or a question, it's like a door into a room. I kind of like, get in the room first. I gotta, like, learn more. It's always just the starting point. It's always just the tip of the iceberg. We need to be curious and learn more across the board. It helps your kid trust themselves. It helps them flesh things out. Okay? So what does that sound like in this situation? And sometimes it's not really a question, but it's a pontification to learn more. "Oh, you're not going? I'm sure you have a reason for not wanting to go." And then stop talking. This is a great sentence. "I'm sure you have a reason for that."

• 34:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Then you have to stop talking. My new thing is counting to 14. 14 is like such a random number that you'll actually remember it, because we have to then let that land. Like, if you're always used to your partner or boss, like, telling you why you should do something, and then you're like, "Hey, I need to do this thing." And they're like, "I'm sure you have a reason for that."

• 34:37Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  We like move into the next thing right away. "But do you wanna go?" You're like, "You gotta give your kid's body a second to absorb the profound gift you just gave them." Yeah, you know what? If I thought that, I would, if I heard that, I thought, "What is my reason? What is my reason? Maybe now I'm gonna try to figure that out with my parent, right? It's such a gift." Or just, "Huh, tell me more." You don't, there's something about not adding, "What? What is it?" Right? Again, that's it. There's something about this you're not into. Something about soccer today you're not into. And I know you're like, "My kid's gonna give me nothing," or say, "I don't know." Your curiosity still sends a signal. The feelings inside you are real. Wouldn't we love our sons when they're in some nasty text that have a feeling and just say, "I think there's a reason for this feeling.

• 35:23Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I don't know what it is.

• 35:26Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  But yeah, there's something about this that doesn't feel right."

• 35:30Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  It's kind of the best it gets to get you to pause. Right? So we're gonna try to notice and help our kids trust feelings instead of insinuating over and over that they should go along with the crowd. And then let's talk about action. And so what we really have to do with our boys is practice actual words. Give them some reps. And this is where the nuance matters. What if someone was saying disrespectful stuff about a girl? Would you say something? I would. This is where I'd say,

• 36:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  "What might make that hard?"

• 36:03Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Well, it's not hard. It's the right thing to say. "Oh, I get it." Like, if my kid can't articulate what would make it hard to do, I mean this, this is just me, I wouldn't even believe they'd have a chance of doing it. I just don't believe it. Like, you're telling me you're gonna be the 16-year-old boy in a group of friends, and you have the group of friends who says nasty stuff like that? And you're like, "Not hard?" "No, not hard." What? I, like, I'd want them to articulate. As soon as you talk about something that's hard, you're more likely to overcome the hard. You don't have the fear around it. "What would be hard about that?" Well, I know, no, it's okay. I actually think it would be hard. This is where it's the stuff I have to say in this. Again, I don't want it to be misperceived, right? But this is real. This is so real. It can be hard to do the right thing. It can.

• 36:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  "Okay, so that would be hard. I get that." Well, I have a question. What is realistic to say? Let's say if it's in a text. And this is where you should throw out ideas and have internal joy when your kid rejects you. Right? Because you could say, like, "Would a kid your age say, 'Hey, guys, that's not nice'?" And let your kid be like, "No, that's not what the text is gonna say." "Oh, what would it say?" "I don't know. Someone would probably say, 'That's fucked.'" "Yeah, that's probably what someone would say." Your kid just heard themselves say it once. They already have one rep. They're probably gonna need more. They have one. Right? "No, that's not funny. Bro, stop." Right? "That's fucked." Great. Never been more happy for you to use a curse word than in that situation and just stop some fucked-up shit. Okay?

• 37:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So you want your kid to reject yours. You want them to say, "No one would say that." Again, it makes you say, "Okay, well, my kid's about a second away from telling me what they would say." And then let your kid say something that would come out of their mouth. And then this is really important. We have to give our kids a Plan B. There's a lot between saying the right thing and your Plan A and doing the thing. And I think the whole arc really matters. Okay? Okay. What if you freeze and you still have that feeling like this isn't right? And you're like, "I even know what to say, but you just can't." "Mom, I'm not gonna do that." But you might. And that doesn't mean you're weak. And that doesn't mean I'd be mad at you. And that doesn't mean you're a bad person. You might, our bodies do weird things when we're nervous. What else could you do? And you know what? I think there's always one Plan B.

• 38:19Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You tell someone. You tell you, the parent? You pull one friend aside. Right? You don't have a solution, but you bring in someone else at least as a start.

• 38:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I know I want my kids to know that missing the first opportunity to act doesn't mean the opportunity is gone. You froze? Okay, what can you do next? You laughed because everyone else laughed and then felt sick about it? Okay, what can you do now?

• 38:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So what really matters when raising boys? Much more than we've talked about today and much more than even what we do in our home. We have to stand up and make a bigger deal out of these cultural themes where we can. And there are three patterns you can know you do have control over. And something I don't tell you enough is all these things. And I think those patterns are making sure our kids learn, our boys learn. I can handle not getting what I want. I am noticing other people and I trust the part of me that says, huh? I don't know about this and I'm learning how to act when I have that feeling. These are skills. They take years and all the things I do in my house, me, Becky, the boundary setting, the limits, the tolerating, the upset, the noticing,

• 39:32Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  instead of just saying, stop doing this, is such hard work. Like, these things aren't easy breezy for me. I work, I think, so much harder with my kids than people would imagine to do these things. So hard, so hard. And these things take years to build. It's why parenting isn't like a, it's not like a one time thing. It's not like a pill that you take. It's not a one time course. It's those three things. I can handle not getting what I want. I notice other people. I trust the part of me that says, huh? I don't know about this and I learn how to act on it.

• 40:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I know that the low stakes moments happening in our homes are where our boys are getting the reps they will need to rely on when the stakes are higher.

• 40:35Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Before we end, I just want to zoom out for a minute. Sexual violence is not an individual parenting problem. And so it cannot have an individual parenting solution. Our boys are developing inside cultures and systems and institutions that are teaching them things all the time. Here's what I do want us to take seriously. If knowledge isn't enough, then we have to rethink what preparation looks like. Not instead of teaching consent, in addition to. Because I worry that sometimes we have these conversations and our son gives us the right answers and then we think, okay, he gets it. But does he have practiced tolerating disappointment without making it someone else's responsibility to fix? Does he notice another person when his own desire is really, really loud?

• 41:19Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And has he been encouraged to notice that little voice inside him that says, yeah, I don't know about this? Even when everyone else around him is literally saying, or just saying with their behavior, yeah, it's fine. None of this gives full answers. But we're really talking about skills and skills have to be practiced. And they cannot only live inside our homes. You know, I recently heard a college president talking about bystander training. And in that same conversation, someone had this amazing idea that I haven't stopped thinking about. We have designated drivers. Why can't we have designated upstanders? Someone who has the job that night of knowing, I need to notice, I need to step in. That is my role tonight to protect everyone.

• 42:04Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  This is a systems level idea and I get so excited by those and we need more of those. We need schools thinking about this and colleges and coaches and teams and fraternities and parents. If we're serious about changing what happens when stakes are high, we have to get more creative about what gets practiced and instituted before the stakes are high. We cannot unintentionally reinforce patterns in childhood and expect the next generation of kids to resist them later in young adulthood. And we have to change the systems that are reinforcing the very behaviors we hope young people are able to resist. None of that means you're not accountable for your actions. When all of us are thinking about this next generation, I believe this just has to be part of that conversation.

• 42:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So what now? Well, I do hope you leave thinking, okay, I have a few more things to notice, maybe different things to look for, different things to do. But I hope on a bigger scale, I hope you have more questions than answers. I still do. I always do. And I don't think this conversation of all conversations needs a neat ending. It shouldn't have that. I think it needs more conversations with more people with varied perspectives because that is what leads to collective systemic action. So if any of this resonated, pass it along. Not with a, this is correct, listen to it, but with real questions. What do you think about this? What hit you? Maybe bring it up at the next conversation you have with a friend or bring it to your kid's school or your team or your university.

• 43:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I know progress is going to require interventions on so many levels. No one person has the right answer, so the solution won't be one thing. I believe we get somewhere different when more of us start asking different questions together. And I'm just excited to be part of that process and to learn right alongside you. I can't wait to hear what you think and I can't wait for the collective action we can take together. One last thing. So many of you have asked me to put some of these ideas into writing in a place you can actually go to, maybe share it with someone else. So I typed it up. I put it on our site and there's a link to it in the show notes. Until next time.