Fraud Friday: The Pristine Ponzi Scheme w/ Matt Walsh

Just like that, it's Fraud Friday! Today, Laci visits one of the very first episodes of Scam Goddess, episode 13, with comedy legend Matt Walsh (Ghosts, Upright Citizens Brigade), as they dive into the most famous Ponzi schemer in world history: Bernie Madoff. More like he “made off” with those billions. Stay schemin’! (Originally released 12/23/2019) CON-gregation, keep the scams coming and snitch on your friends by emailing us at [email protected]. Follow on Instagram: Scam Goddess Pod: @scamgoddesspod Laci Mosley: @divalaci Matt Walsh:@mrmattwalsh Research by Laci Mosley

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

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• 1:14Speaker 01

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• 1:21Speaker 02

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• 1:36Speaker 03

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• 2:11Speaker 02

  I'm glad I asked for help.

• 2:13Speaker 03

  Ask your loved ones doctor about

• 2:17Speaker 04

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• 2:35Speaker 05

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• 2:53Laci Mosley?

  What's poppin', congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays, where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess Vault. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes from behind the paywall. Enjoy this episode from behind the paywall. And as always, stay scheming.

• 3:35Laci Mosley?

  Congregation, welcome to another episode of Scam Goddess. Guys, I'm so excited about our guest today. He is just a comedy giant and I am so excited to have him here. Guys, I have Mr. Matt Walsh. You've probably seen him on Veep. You've probably seen him on so many other things. Also, he's one of the creators of the comedy theater that I came out of, UCB. So this man has done a lot for me and he's also just hilarious and I'm so happy to have him here. Hi, Matt.

• 4:03Speaker 07

  That's a great intro. That's a little shorter next time, but yeah.

• 4:06Laci Mosley?

  No, no. Honestly, it could be longer. Cody, pull up the IMDb. Let's read every credit.

• 4:13Speaker 07

  Punish someone with their IMDb. It's a pleasure to be here, Scam Goddess. What do I call you on this show? Just so I, we were talking about names earlier.

• 4:21Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, I'm Lacey.

• 4:22Speaker 07

  Lacey.

• 4:22Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:23Speaker 07

  Just Lacey.

• 4:23Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, the scammers know. I, I, I told everyone, like, you should have an alias if you're a scammer. Unfortunately, my alias is, like, super, um, obvious. I feel like if I call myself Scam Goddess, people know what's about to happen.

• 4:36Speaker 07

  Right.

• 4:36Laci Mosley?

  But I think that's fair. I can still scam you. You think you know what's gonna happen, but...

• 4:40Speaker 07

  You're right. Like, when The Medicine Show came into town, or, like, you knew there was something magic about it, but they, he still would scam people.

• 4:49Laci Mosley?

  Exactly.

• 4:49Speaker 07

  Do you know what I mean?

• 4:50Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. I pride myself in people feeling good after I've scammed them. Like, oh, man, that was fun.

• 4:54Speaker 07

  It's the allure.

• 4:55Laci Mosley?

  I lost a little money, but I had a good time.

• 4:57Speaker 07

  It's the allure of winning, you know? Or, like, being smarter than the game.

• 5:03Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 5:03Speaker 07

  That suckers people. And I have an Atlantic City story that I, my friend convinced me you could guaranteed win at Roulette, and we brought $300 down.

• 5:11Laci Mosley?

  Okay.

• 5:12Speaker 07

  And within three minutes, that money was gone. But our butthurt, but our fool, he convinced me, my buddy Bill, he's like, you just, like, bet 20 red, if it's not red, you go 40 that way, you know? Because eventually red's gonna come up. It's never more likely. Like, you're just doubling down.

• 5:30Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 5:30Speaker 07

  So if you bet 20, you lost 20, lost 20. Okay, now to make that up, you bet 40. And say you lose that 40, no big deal. You now pay 60 on the ride. And you're eventually going to hit black and win somehow.

• 5:47Laci Mosley?

  Okay, that sounds terrible.

• 5:48Speaker 07

  That was truly what I was convinced of and how it relates to your show, hopefully, is that I'm a sucker. Because I thought my friend knew of a thing that would win.

• 6:01Laci Mosley?

  Did he, like, tell you?

• 6:01Speaker 07

  That would win money in Atlantic City. Yes, or a friend gave...

• 6:05Laci Mosley?

  He's like, come on, I saw George Clooney do this in a movie. You're like, what is this? Who is his friend?

• 6:09Speaker 07

  He's an actor. Uh, no, we're not really close anymore.

• 6:13Laci Mosley?

  You left him in Atlantic City. You're like, truly, I don't know what happened to him after Atlantic City.

• 6:16Speaker 07

  No, we had a, we had a, ugh, Atlantic City's not a fun place to be with no money at, like, late at night. Waiting in a bus station. Yeah.

• 6:24Laci Mosley?

  You know, that's why they always keep the, uh, hoochie clothes at the casinos. When you lose, you might have to go turn some tricks so you can get home.

• 6:30Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 6:30Laci Mosley?

  You know, go in there and get your little banana hammock, Matt. Get out on the block.

• 6:34Speaker 07

  Get out there and work.

• 6:35Laci Mosley?

  Get on the block, Matt.

• 6:38Laci Mosley?

  Well, you got to earn your way back.

• 6:40Speaker 07

  If I'm doing that, I'm going to like whatever the Four Seasons is of Atlantic City.

• 6:44Laci Mosley?

  I like that. You are very classy.

• 6:45Speaker 07

  I'm not gonna street whore myself.

• 6:47Laci Mosley?

  Exactly. You're not a twenty dollar hoe.

• 6:48Speaker 07

  I will pick someone up at a cocktail.

• 6:50Laci Mosley?

  At a bar. Exactly.

• 6:51Speaker 07

  I would be a call person.

• 6:52Laci Mosley?

  They slide the room key over, all of that.

• 6:55Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 6:55Laci Mosley?

  Yes, yes. You fucking on, on hundred thread count sheets. Three hundred thread count sheets. Okay, I get it. That's, that's where I would give my, my ass away too.

• 7:09Laci Mosley?

  I'm on one today. I'm sorry, y'all.

• 7:12Laci Mosley?

  Oh, man.

• 7:12Speaker 07

  To get home, only to get home. The agreement was it's to get home.

• 7:16Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 7:16Speaker 07

  You got, you have no money.

• 7:17Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 07

  And you're trying to get home.

• 7:18Laci Mosley?

  And you know, every night you're trying to get home theoretically.

• 7:21Speaker 07

  Well.

• 7:21Laci Mosley?

  Every night you go to your home where you house your body. So, you know, technically, I'm always trying to get home. You know? Uh, I definitely think that this counts as a scam. I mean, casinos in general are huge scams. Like, the allure is like you'll go in and you'll win big. I learned how, from my dad how to gamble at sixteen and I only play craps and I'm really good at playing craps.

• 7:43Speaker 07

  You understand the game.

• 7:44Laci Mosley?

  I understand the game. I understand what bets are really sexy, but really are bad odds and the house wins a lot. Like, anytime you see anybody who goes in and plays the field, they don't know what the fuck they're doing. Field is the worst bet in the house. You will win large amounts, but then you will lose them immediately.

• 7:59Speaker 07

  What, what is a field bet?

• 8:01Laci Mosley?

  So, a field bet means like if a number like two, five, no, two,

• 8:07Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 8:07Laci Mosley?

  three, twelve craps. So, two and twelve pay double on the field. Yo, eleven, like all these numbers basically that are kind of low, um, averaging, like hitting on the dice. If they hit, they'll pay you double.

• 8:21Speaker 07

  But, and you ride that bet for one roll?

• 8:23Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 8:23Speaker 07

  Okay, that usually loses, right?

• 8:25Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, it usually loses, comes down after every roll.

• 8:28Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 8:28Laci Mosley?

  Um, but people will play it and like they'll hit a bit when the table's cold, because those numbers aren't good. Those aren't numbers that are actually like place bets. Um, but when the table's hot, you're just gonna lose all that money again. But the key to like winning in any casino game is to leave. Like, people start having fun and that's when you lose your money. Like, don't, and also don't play with people who look like they really need to win. Like I go to a casino, I take out money and then I look at that money. I say this money's gone. Uh, this money's for fun. And then I play with it and if it's gone, I, you know, but I don't lose. I'll play, I'll win back what I made, then have fun with the rest and then.

• 9:04Speaker 07

  I played, I played, uh, open table. Like I'm not a good poker player, but I played open table in like Vegas one weekend or something, a night. And I just ended up like, my style just ended up being like grinding it out, just like grinding it out. And I probably made like 12 bucks over like three or four hours.

• 9:20Laci Mosley?

  Cause you were having fun.

• 9:21Speaker 07

  No, I wasn't.

• 9:23Laci Mosley?

  No fun.

• 9:23Speaker 07

  I wasn't.

• 9:24Laci Mosley?

  Why? Was it, was it, were the other poker?

• 9:25Speaker 07

  Cause I think it's a game I'm not good at. And the only way for me to not lose money is to play just like hard on great cards. And then just ride. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I don't think I'll ever be really good at poker. I can't read the faces. I can't.

• 9:40Laci Mosley?

  It's a scam. Yeah. You gotta be able to scam people and count cards and be lucky and get a good hand.

• 9:45Speaker 07

  Yes. And I can, I, there was a time where I actually enjoyed like watching it a brief time where you watched the first time, like World Series poker. And you see guys playing and you see someone with a bullshit hand and you see that guy just playing it. So real or something like that. Like, oh, that's, that's really good.

• 10:04Laci Mosley?

  It's good acting.

• 10:05Speaker 07

  Or just nothing. More than likely, it's nothing. Like if you're the Unabomber, you have your hood up, you've had the same face the whole time.

• 10:12Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 10:13Speaker 07

  But you see someone like look up and I don't know. That part of it is interesting to me.

• 10:17Laci Mosley?

  I remember watching poker too. And I thought it was fucking wild that we, what a scam for us to all have a televised event where we just watch people play cards.

• 10:26Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 10:29Laci Mosley?

  We watch you play cards. I mean, that's technically sports. We watch you kick a ball.

• 10:35Speaker 07

  I know. And now it's video sports. Now people go to arenas to watch people play video sports.

• 10:40Laci Mosley?

  Yes. Which is like a huge thing where people are watching other people play video games. I think that is absolutely insane and I'm trying to get involved. Uh.

• 10:49Speaker 07

  My oldest, my oldest boy was like telling me, he's like, it's no different than like football. Like you're watching football on TV and that's on a screen. And I'm like, somehow it is, but.

• 10:59Laci Mosley?

  Right. I think it is. I think that that's a generational thing that sometimes even bothers me. I went to a Made in America concert and DJ Mustard was there and DJ Mustard, like he does the little like mustard on that beat. Oh, in front of like all his beats and uh, he's pretty popular and he was doing a set at Made in America. So I go to the set and I kid you not, he opens his MacBook and the crowd goes wild. People were screaming when this man opened his computer and I looked around and I was like, what the fuck is this? Are you telling me we came over here? I thought he was gonna have some turntables. I thought he was gonna do a little scratchy, scratchy or something like. He really came over here with a laptop and we about to hit, watch this nigga press play. I can't believe it. I can't believe it and I love it. I want to get involved.

• 11:44Laci Mosley?

  I'm trying to figure out if people will watch me play video games poorly. Could that be entertaining? Cause I can't play them well.

• 11:49Speaker 07

  If you were entertaining vocally, like if you were saying funny shit, people would watch you.

• 11:54Laci Mosley?

  Running into the wall. I couldn't figure out how to get him from start running into the wall, but for like three hours.

• 12:00Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because a lot of the understanding of culture they get, they get it through parody, if you know what I mean. Like there'll be, somebody will reference Jaws while they're watching a Minecraft game happen. And they'll be like, I'm like the shark. They'll make a shark Jaws joke or something like, dad, what's that shark Jaws about?

• 12:19Laci Mosley?

  Oh wow, your son doesn't know what Jaws is.

• 12:21Speaker 07

  Well, now he does. He was obsessed with sharks for a while.

• 12:24Laci Mosley?

  That's very funny that now he's like totally into Jaws. We're gonna get started with the first segment because this has been real tangential and I love it, which is hot and fraud. So hot and fried, Matt, this is a moment where I talk to the listeners out there, the congregation about scams. Cause I don't want my congregation to get scammed by anybody but me. You know what I mean? If it's my scam, please participate. I need that. But anybody else, you know, we try to prevent it.

• 12:52Speaker 07

  Yeah. Take care of each other, right?

• 12:54Laci Mosley?

  Exactly. Exactly. This scam comes from my girl B. She asked to be called B and I understand. Cause when you're doing fraud, you know, you don't need your government name out there. Bubie says, hi Lacey, I have an old scam for you. When I was in high school about eight or nine years ago, I decided I needed a fake ID. Not sure how to go about it, I asked one of the rich girls in my grade, one of only people who I knew had one, and how she got hers. And she told me about a website called fakeid.com, which is pretty obvious.

• 13:24Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 13:25Laci Mosley?

  You would think like a government official or somebody would look that up and be like, huh, maybe we should look into fakeid.com. Sounds suspicious.

• 13:34Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 13:35Laci Mosley?

  But I love that the name is so obvious, you know, you gotta be able to find it.

• 13:38Speaker 07

  That's how you find it. They probably have good lawyers. They're like, come at us.

• 13:41Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 13:42Speaker 07

  What are we doing illegally?

• 13:43Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, what are you talking about? Yeah, we call our website Fake ID, but that doesn't mean we're making fake IDs.

• 13:48Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 13:49Laci Mosley?

  We, uh, we make music. Like, what do they do? They're like, we make affordable trash bags.

• 13:55Speaker 07

  Yeah, we reclaim medical waste.

• 13:59Laci Mosley?

  These are all great friends. So I was so surprised that they use this website to order IDs, but my dumb ass was like, okay, these are her words. After looking up the website, the deal was two fake IDs for $200. And if you ordered 10 or more, it was $180 for both. All we had to do was send over a Word document with our desired ID information, take an ID photo with a plain background, and wire the money using Western Union to Hong Kong. Easy, right? So being a very broke high schooler, I was like, I need that discount. So I have to find nine other people to join me. Naturally, my best friend was in, and it was actually surprisingly easy to find nine other people to join. Um, so we officially had to order of 11 fake IDs at $180 each.

• 14:42Laci Mosley?

  So they wired $1980 to someone in Hong Kong. They were told it would take one to two months for it to arrive. After two months, I was concerned that they were not going to arrive. We all realized we were shit out of luck and lost $180 each, and there was nothing that we could do about it. A couple of weeks later, they said, oh, I guess we couldn't call the police and be like, we were swindled out of buying our fake IDs. That's the thing about doing crime, is like, there's no protections, like there are for, you know.

• 15:07Speaker 07

  Criminality.

• 15:07Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, yeah, for legitimate things. You can't be like, hey, this guy didn't mail me my acid on the dark web.

• 15:13Speaker 07

  Right.

• 15:14Laci Mosley?

  But I wonder if you could call your bank, though. I feel like you could call your bank. Your bank don't gotta know that you was doing crime, right?

• 15:21Speaker 07

  Well, if it's a western, so you would go.

• 15:23Laci Mosley?

  Oh, well, they wired it, right? Right.

• 15:25Speaker 07

  It's real money. Yeah.

• 15:26Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 15:27Speaker 07

  Western Union is like real money, right?

• 15:29Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, and we've talked a lot about this show and how wire transfers are basically one of just like the fundamentals of scamming. Cause it's instant money, you can't get it back, and there's no recompense. And that's, that's how you want your money when you're a scammer.

• 15:41Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 15:42Laci Mosley?

  So a couple of weeks later, she said that a friend texted her and the IDs actually came. And they were real fake IDs and she said they worked for a long time. And then other kids who decided not to get in on this scheme with her, uh, they immediately were jealous and went out and spent like $4,000 getting these same fake IDs. Unfortunately, fakeID.com was hacked. And so all the money was rerouted to someone who was not making any IDs. So then the scam no longer worked. I had a fake ID.

• 16:14Speaker 07

  Wow, that's a fascinating story.

• 16:16Laci Mosley?

  I ordered a fake ID online, so I might have used fakeIDs.com. Yeah, I did. Um, it was a Pennsylvania ID, cause I went to school in Pittsburgh. And it only worked for one night because.

• 16:28Speaker 07

  What do you mean?

• 16:29Laci Mosley?

  Because somebody, I guess we all.

• 16:30Speaker 07

  Expired? They gave you one that had one day till expiration?

• 16:34Laci Mosley?

  I had one night out, out in the town with my fake ID.

• 16:37Speaker 07

  You want it or not?

• 16:38Laci Mosley?

  They said I had to go back to the DMV. I said, I can't.

• 16:40Speaker 07

  That's a good premise for a movie. You can drink like you're 21, but only for one night. Go.

• 16:45Laci Mosley?

  Then your ID expired. I think that's actually a movie that's gonna be coming out.

• 16:48Speaker 07

  Is it?

• 16:48Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, I read a script that sounds just like that.

• 16:51Speaker 07

  Ooh.

• 16:51Laci Mosley?

  Mm-hmm. But, uh, I, I think it was because a bunch of us ordered them at the same time, like kind of in this fashion. I think there was a discount if you bought a bunch of them, you know, if you buy your.

• 17:00Speaker 07

  In bulk.

• 17:00Laci Mosley?

  In bulk.

• 17:01Speaker 07

  Sure.

• 17:01Laci Mosley?

  Which is how I like to buy my fake government documents, in bulk. So I did have two of them. The first one got taken the second night that I tried to go out with it because every, cause they scanned, that was a big deal, like you wanted your ID to stand.

• 17:13Speaker 07

  You what year this was?

• 17:14Laci Mosley?

  Uh, this was, I was supposed to say 19, definitely 19. It was two thousand and eleven.

• 17:23Speaker 07

  So these people, you gave them information to make a fake ID, right?

• 17:27Laci Mosley?

  I did.

• 17:28Speaker 07

  And none of your accounts, like you didn't get your identity stolen as a result?

• 17:33Laci Mosley?

  No, because I didn't give them any real ID.

• 17:36Speaker 07

  Nothing was real?

• 17:37Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 17:37Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 17:37Laci Mosley?

  Because you don't like, they make up your driver's license number. You don't need to give them anything other than the address you wanted to go to.

• 17:44Speaker 07

  And a credit card number?

• 17:45Laci Mosley?

  Uh. I'm trying to remember how we paid. I didn't pay. That's what it was. I did, took the photo and then somebody else had arranged to order the IDs. And I sent my money via whatever app we were using at the time. I think we were just, I think it was back then, we just got cash out of the ATM. It was a crazy time.

• 18:05Speaker 07

  Well, it's, it's interesting to bundle, to bundle anything like that, like to bundle, to bundle fake IDs and then move them that way.

• 18:13Laci Mosley?

  Honestly, it's the capitalist way and I appreciate it. It was.

• 18:15Speaker 07

  I had a guy, I had a guy I worked with in a restaurant and he, I saw him like eight years later and he was, I'm like, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, I'm uh, moving, I bundle car loans and then I move them to other institutions, financial institutions.

• 18:29Laci Mosley?

  That sounds like a scam.

• 18:31Speaker 07

  That was his living. It might be a scam.

• 18:33Laci Mosley?

  That loan consolidation always.

• 18:35Speaker 07

  It's eventually gonna deflate, you're right, in value. You're right. Maybe it is like a, I guess, so if you bundle subprime mortgages, you're a scam artist.

• 18:43Laci Mosley?

  Right, because these are also depreciating values. So like, yeah, I mean, look, we all knew that. That's how the housing market, woo, but um.

• 18:50Speaker 07

  But they're all, each individual contract is legitimate paper. Like they're not buying like cocaine.

• 18:57Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 18:58Speaker 07

  Right? They're buying like.

• 19:00Laci Mosley?

  They might be. It's a possibility. Um, I, I will say though, like, we all got found out because some, there was like a, like a, a construction error. What's the word? I'm looking for like a default or something in all of the cards. Um, and it was the same on every ID. They all like were missing some specific thing or they were flashing this blue light on it. And because we all bought these in bulk, we all had the same kind of malfunction. Yeah, so I got it snatched from me the second time. Then I had to just start using a friend's ID who looked like me. Actually, we didn't look alike. She had like a bigger like nostrils. So when I would use her ID, I would show up to the club and I flare my nostrils out like this. I'm like, hello.

• 19:42Laci Mosley?

  And I would just hold my nose out like this. It worked every time.

• 19:46Speaker 07

  Well, you also have an attitude when you make that face like, can we finish this?

• 19:50Laci Mosley?

  Right. I'm old. Why was my mom like, oh, you need a fake ID? You can use mine. I was like, mom, you are 20 years older than me or 21 years older than me. Why, where am I gonna go talk about I'm 49?

• 20:04Laci Mosley?

  Like sis.

• 20:05Speaker 07

  She was gonna give it up though when you were 19?

• 20:08Laci Mosley?

  When I was 20, yeah.

• 20:09Speaker 07

  Oh, wow.

• 20:10Laci Mosley?

  Uh, right? Isn't that crazy?

• 20:11Speaker 07

  That's a cool mom, I think.

• 20:13Laci Mosley?

  I didn't drink in high school. Like, I didn't get to go anywhere. So I think in college she was like, you can go places.

• 20:19Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 20:19Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, a little bit. The first time I ever got drunk was with my parents. I once got so drunk with my mom that I woke up in bed with my parents. It's not how it sounds. It's just like, I woke up in the corner of the bed and was like, what the fuck happened?

• 20:31Speaker 07

  Hammered.

• 20:32Laci Mosley?

  Hammered. Hammered. And I was like, this is not okay. And my mom was like, I was trying to give you a cool compress, but you were being very mean to me.

• 20:44Laci Mosley?

  She, mom can drink me under a table.

• 20:46Speaker 07

  Oh, that's funny.

• 20:48Laci Mosley?

  Oh, gosh.

• 20:52Speaker 00

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• 22:18Speaker 02

  She'd throw things, wander and started hoarding. Mom's Alzheimer's was already so hard. But then we found out she had agitation that may happen with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease. And that was a different kind of difficult. So we asked her doctor for more help.

• 22:33Speaker 03

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• 23:08Speaker 02

  I'm glad I asked for help.

• 23:10Speaker 03

  Ask your loved one's doctor about Rexulti.

• 23:16Laci Mosley?

  Y'all know it's time for my favorite segment of this show. Historic hoodwink. This is where I regale your boy Matt Walsh with a historic hoodwink. Uh, we just get his commentary, uh, opinions and feelings along the way. So today, guys, this is a super popular one that I know you all know about. A king, incarcerated king, Mr.

• 23:41Laci Mosley?

  Bernard Lawrence Madoff. AKA Bernie Madoff. AKA Bernie Madoff with all your money.

• 23:50Speaker 07

  Yo.

• 23:50Laci Mosley?

  Yes. He's an American financier, I'm gonna put that in quotes, financier, who executed the largest Ponzi scheme in history, defrauding thousands of investors out of tens of billions of dollars over the course of seventeen years and possibly longer, and I would think longer, career scammer. If you can scam into your seventies and not get caught until your seventies, that's beautiful.

• 24:13Speaker 07

  Yeah, that person is game, you're right.

• 24:15Laci Mosley?

  Like, I don't understand why they weren't giving him a lifetime achievement award, like.

• 24:19Speaker 07

  Scamming.

• 24:19Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, I'm sorry, if you get that far, like, we're all dumb and you deserve the world. I'm not mad at it. So, but you know, you're scamming rich people, so they are definitely going to get you back. I'm just gonna get, tell you guys out there how Ponzi schemes work, just so we're all on the same page. So, the name originated with Charles Ponzi, who promised fifty percent returns on investments in only ninety days. I feel like ninety days is such a great scammer amount of time. Look, if you get on any, if you're up late at night and you see any commercial for anything, they'd be like, oh, it's only three installments of forty-nine ninety-nine. Like, you know what I mean? Like, ninety days is just enough time where you'll pay something consistently before you start feeling like robbed. You know what I mean? Like, ninety days, I give you my money, I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna get it back in three months?

• 25:04Laci Mosley?

  Okay, that's, that seems acceptable. I will, four months though, no, no. I'm angry. I want my money back. So, Ponzi schemes are run by a central operator who uses the money from new incoming investors to pay off promised returns to older ones. So, basically, you take money from people and you say, in ninety days, it's about to be lit. You about to have, I'm gonna double your coin, right? But you have to keep doing this because technically you're just taking money from other people and then giving it to other people.

• 25:32Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:33Laci Mosley?

  And then you can skim a little off the top for yourself. So, to avoid having too many investors reclaiming their profits, Ponzi schemes encourage them to stay in the game to earn even more money. So, it's like, ooh, you thought these three months was lit? You wait until you try ten years. So investing strategies are vague and

• 25:52Speaker 07

  So can I ask you a question? So nobody walks away after the first, like if you have, if you have a Ponzi guy and he says, give me five million and in six months, you'll have 10 million, right?

• 26:05Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 26:06Speaker 07

  He does that once to you, right? He makes you believe it's gonna work.

• 26:10Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 26:10Speaker 07

  And that's where the addiction is that, is that, is that how it works? Like, so after 10, I could have literally, or they, one could find another person to invest their money with.

• 26:19Laci Mosley?

  Right. So if you get it on a Ponzi scheme early and you actually get the returns on your investment and decide to de-invest, then, or divest, rather, then you actually would win on that scam. But the whole point is, is that he gives you back half of what you invested as a profit. And then he still has the money that you invested technically in your brain, but really he just gave you half your money back.

• 26:45Speaker 07

  Right. Yeah. It's, it's an, because you're seeing like, if I give you five million and you say, aren't they more likely to say, okay, but you gotta be in for a couple of years. They might show you a profit at six months. They might show your bank account and say, look, check your bank account today. There's 10 million there.

• 27:02Laci Mosley?

  They're falsifying.

• 27:02Speaker 07

  That's no bullshit. Or, or the money was real. Do you know what I mean?

• 27:06Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 27:07Speaker 07

  And then they take it. But now there's another thing. If you give me that 10 now, we're gonna turn it into 20. So then he takes your, whatever, maybe gets you in for another five more there?

• 27:15Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. No, it's exactly how it works. So it's like, and then when he's getting other people to invest, he's just taking that money. Like, let's say you wanna divest a little bit, or you wanna see some of your returns and you wanna actually take some of your returns. He will take the money that he just got from somebody else and give it to you.

• 27:32Speaker 07

  Right.

• 27:33Laci Mosley?

  So there was never actually.

• 27:34Speaker 07

  There's diminishing resources and

• 27:36Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 27:36Speaker 07

  if I'm a member, it's not like a, an Amway scam in that now my job is to recruit other people into the Ponzi, right? There's usually only one Ponzi, one person at the center of a Ponzi, right?

• 27:49Laci Mosley?

  And investing strategies are vague or secretive, which schemers claim is to protect their business. So if you have these invested strategies that are making millions, you don't have to tell anybody what they are because The natural assumption is is that if you shared it, other people would do it and then it would become less valuable. And even though these people aren't now working for the scam, it's not like Herbalife right now. You're like, oh, come on, y'all invested Bernie Madoff. But you know how money is, you know how rich people are, like, you know. You got some coins, babe. Man, I got some coins, honey. So you know, when y'all be at the meetings and at the functions and you know, the Illuminati meetings. And they be like, oh, you know, I just made like a fifty percent return on an investment in ninety days. You are kind of doing the work for him because you're a rich person telling other rich people how they can get rich. Which he has celebrities involved.

• 28:32Speaker 07

  But you're not profiting. Like if I bring three of my friends into the Ponzi, I don't see any more money.

• 28:38Laci Mosley?

  Absolutely not. But that doesn't matter because that's like a status thing. Like people are doing that for status. Cause like Kira Sedgwick was giving him coins. Kevin Bacon was giving him coins. I said, damn, Kevin Bacon. We all six degrees away from Kevin Bacon and a scam, honey. And New York Met's owner was giving him coins, Fred Wilpon. So like, oh, Steven Spielberg. Come on now, you know, like, these are prominent names. Like, you know, you go into the black tie events and Steven tell me, yeah, Bernie just, uh.

• 29:06Laci Mosley?

  Listen, I'm invested. Steven Spielberg made the color purple. I would, I'm like, who are we giving our money to?

• 29:12Speaker 07

  I feel bad for anyone, though, who got lost their, like, money.

• 29:16Laci Mosley?

  You do?

• 29:17Speaker 07

  If they're, if they're zeroed out or something, yeah, I do. I, cause nobody, I don't know. I feel bad for rich people. Not for, not for rich people.

• 29:26Laci Mosley?

  Wow, I feel bad for rich people.

• 29:30Laci Mosley?

  That's the quote of this entire show. Mad watch feels bad for rich people.

• 29:34Speaker 07

  If you're a ten millionaire, say you're a ten millionaire. And Bernie Madoff took all your money and that was like your retirement for you and your wife and now you got nothing.

• 29:43Laci Mosley?

  But why would you give him ten million dollars? That's like, that's too much.

• 29:46Speaker 07

  I think you get suckered in. I think you get suckered in. Maybe you go in for a million at first and you're like, here's a million next year. Let me show you the returns after year one. Do you want to come in for two? And then you're a dumb.

• 29:56Laci Mosley?

  Matt, did you get taken by Bernie Madoff?

• 29:58Speaker 07

  I didn't.

• 29:58Laci Mosley?

  Is this your story?

• 29:59Speaker 07

  I did not, no.

• 30:00Laci Mosley?

  I don't know, Matt. It's starting to sound very specific. He's like, I mean, what if you're a guy, you know?

• 30:05Speaker 07

  I'm doing an average.

• 30:06Laci Mosley?

  Name Matt.

• 30:10Laci Mosley?

  You know, what if, what if, you know, in between shooting VP, you were like, I want to double my millions. And then you meet Bernie at a, at an Oscar party and then Steven Spielberg says that he's a cool guy.

• 30:20Speaker 07

  I am unfortunately easy prey for like a scam person.

• 30:25Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, somebody could take you to Atlantic City.

• 30:27Speaker 07

  No, I have like someone who helps me plan, you know, so I don't lose all the money or whatever. Like I'm, I'm not good at money, but.

• 30:33Laci Mosley?

  Do you watch that person?

• 30:35Speaker 07

  I trust that person. Yeah.

• 30:37Laci Mosley?

  You don't?

• 30:37Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 30:39Laci Mosley?

  I trust nobody.

• 30:40Speaker 07

  Yeah. Well, you're smart too. You're smart.

• 30:44Laci Mosley?

  I mean, as long as you're like overseeing, my mom was always like, you're never big enough to not sign your own checks. And I was like, okay.

• 30:50Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 30:51Laci Mosley?

  Sometimes I do let people deposit checks into my bank account, so I should probably look at those.

• 30:57Speaker 07

  But think of the time you free from your life by not like monitoring like every single.

• 31:03Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, but then sometimes you get rehanded. Rihanna's money manager was managing her money poorly. And by managing, I mean, she was managing to steal a lot of it.

• 31:13Speaker 07

  Really?

• 31:13Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, stole a lot of her money.

• 31:14Speaker 07

  Really?

• 31:15Laci Mosley?

  Bankrupted her. Yeah.

• 31:16Speaker 07

  Grandpa doesn't know these things. Sorry. I apologize to your fans.

• 31:20Laci Mosley?

  Right. No. Um, but yeah, so Bernie Madoff did this whole Ponzi scheme and he did it for at least 17 years, possibly longer. So he was born April 29th in 1938 in Queens, New York. New York is such a beautiful place for scams. I would call New York like specifically Brooklyn, the Silicon Valley of scamming. Like that's where it all the innovation happens. That's where the newest hottest.

• 31:46Speaker 07

  Class too, sorta. Yeah.

• 31:48Laci Mosley?

  Scamnology is coming out.

• 31:49Speaker 07

  From the old world.

• 31:51Laci Mosley?

  And I love an old world scam. I love an old world wine and I love an old world scam.

• 31:54Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 31:55Laci Mosley?

  An old fashioned grift still gets me. So he used $5,000 he earned from lifeguarding and installing sprinkler systems to found his investment company. This man is a genius. Madoff borrowed an additional fifty thousand dollars from his in-laws, which like y'all's in-laws just be having fifty thousand dollars. Like I ain't ever borrowed fifty thousand dollars from nobody. Like, you know what I mean?

• 32:16Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 32:16Laci Mosley?

  And, oh, and this is his in-law, so he also means he married a woman with a bag. Like, who knows? He might have married his wife like, oh, you, your family got some coin? Okay, we gonna, we gonna get married. Cause obviously Bernie's family ain't have no coin. He was installing sprinkle systems and lifeguarding. So, he had to marry up. So he married her with a real baddie. And he and Ruth founded an investment firm called Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC. Uh, where is Ruth's name in this? She didn't brought all the money into this and it's literally called Bernard L. Like, where my name at? It should be Ruth and Bernard. Bernard and Ruth.

• 32:52Speaker 07

  Right. If that was a cancer center, it would be Ruth and Bernard.

• 32:54Laci Mosley?

  Right. It should be Bernard and Ruth's money LLC. Like, I wanna be involved. So by the end of the nineteen eighties, his firm was handling more than five percent of the trade volume in the New York Stock Exchange, which is huge.

• 33:07Speaker 07

  That's bananas.

• 33:08Laci Mosley?

  That's insane.

• 33:09Speaker 07

  That's bananas. Five percent for one, one firm? That's crazy.

• 33:14Laci Mosley?

  Uh, yeah. So he had gotten his hands in everybody's pocket. And this is like the nineteen eighties. So he's probably like, what, like in his forties at this point? Yeah. So Bernie employed his brother, Peter. He employed his daughter, Shayna Madoff, and his sons, Andrew and Mark. When Bernie Madoff started, basically he was flying under the radar because he was falsifying SEC reports. And uh, this is something that I thought was very funny in how he falsifies, like falsifies documents. So they would put documents in the fridge, cause sometimes, sometimes the SEC would pop up on you. Like, they just pull up, like, like the health inspectors, like, hey, y'all, we here. Let us see them docs. You know what I mean? Like bust them docs out.

• 33:56Speaker 07

  They can just do that. Surprise audit.

• 33:58Laci Mosley?

  Surprise, let me get them docs.

• 34:00Speaker 07

  Got it.

• 34:00Laci Mosley?

  So they would pull up and surprise, and they would quickly start falsifying documents. And because they were printing them out fresh, they would be warm. So they would put them in the fridge. So they were cooled out before they gave them to the SDC. Yeah.

• 34:17Speaker 07

  Wow, that's smart. So they were up all night cooking the books, literally.

• 34:21Laci Mosley?

  Literally cooking the books and then had to cool the books down.

• 34:24Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 34:25Laci Mosley?

  Cause they were hot.

• 34:26Speaker 07

  And that's back when the books were on paper. Now the books are not.

• 34:29Laci Mosley?

  Exactly. Now you they're so digital. So you can't really do that. But back when you literally were cooking books, the books would be too hot, hot to the touch.

• 34:38Speaker 07

  Somebody told me there was a story about uh these soldiers knew in in Israel, they knew when the British guys were coming because they'd say, let us know when you're coming because we'll we'll have the beer cold. And they're but they were like making bullets in the basement of the place. But they.

• 34:55Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, yeah, wait till we had a beer nice and cold.

• 34:58Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 34:58Laci Mosley?

  Y'all y'all want some burgers? Y'all want pretzels? We know y'all love.

• 35:01Speaker 07

  Just tell us. So you're coming by Friday. Got it. Beer will be cold. Thank you.

• 35:05Laci Mosley?

  And bullets will be hot.

• 35:06Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 35:08Laci Mosley?

  That's very funny. How you can like bait people like that. But this apparently worked like they would just be refrigerating the books and they come out. I'm like, aren't the books cold then? Are they too cold? They're like, we keep it cold in our office. No women work here. You know, men love cold offices. That's the patriarchy.

• 35:23Speaker 07

  Cold comedy rooms too.

• 35:24Laci Mosley?

  Right. So he started his own market maker firm in nineteen sixty and helped launch NASDAQ stock market, which feels like a conflict of interest. Like, how can you help someone launch the NASDAQ when you're like holding five percent of the share? Okay, so he sat on the board of the National Association of Security Dealers and advised the Security and Exchange Commission on trading securities. So the scammer was advising the organization.

• 35:52Speaker 07

  Was he now already scamming?

• 35:55Laci Mosley?

  Oh, he had been scamming.

• 35:56Speaker 07

  He's been scamming the whole way in.

• 35:57Laci Mosley?

  Yes. So this is like later in his career. This is like when he's.

• 36:01Speaker 07

  How many years into scamming is he at this point? Would you guess? Of being crooked, let's say.

• 36:07Laci Mosley?

  Honestly, I think he was crooked from the time he started installing those water sprinklers. I bet you Bernie can't swim and he was a lifeguard that just never got in the water. He probably just putting a little sunscreen on his nose. I bet you never saved a life. And I bet you that whoever got their sprinkler systems installed by Bernie, that grass died.

• 36:26Speaker 07

  Or they were burned in a fire, those sprinklers you're supposed to put out that.

• 36:30Laci Mosley?

  Right. Oh, Lord Jesus. Then it's like, this is us Bernie Madoff edition. Smoke alarm didn't go off, burned in the style of sprinklers, right? Then the dad died.

• 36:41Laci Mosley?

  I love that show. That show is a scam. I've never seen somebody scam a death harder than this is us.

• 36:46Speaker 07

  I don't watch that one. I'm sorry.

• 36:47Laci Mosley?

  Okay, so I don't.

• 36:48Speaker 07

  It's very emotional, right?

• 36:49Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, and I'm like, who wants to cry every Tuesday at nine? Like, that's too much.

• 36:53Speaker 07

  It is a lot, right?

• 36:54Laci Mosley?

  Like, I can't have a schedule, cry every week, but the scam is on that show is like, the dad dies and that's like something that is not a spoiler. But how the scam works is the dad is like a series regular on the show, like the dad works every night on the damn show because they do all these flashbacks. And the flashbacks be like, oh, man, here are some clothes from the dad dying that we gotta take home from the police department. So sad. The next episode is like, it's my birthday, but my daddy dead. They use the death in like every sad moment of a death, which is real in real life. Like, it's not ever just the funeral. It's always like little tiny moments afterwards, but they, I've never seen somebody milk a death so hard. They'd be like, that's the smoke detector that didn't go off and that's why the dad died. Like zoom in on it.

• 37:40Speaker 07

  And that'll go throughout how many seasons now?

• 37:44Laci Mosley?

  It's been years.

• 37:45Speaker 07

  Couple of seasons.

• 37:45Laci Mosley?

  Of just that.

• 37:46Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 37:47Laci Mosley?

  And it works every single time.

• 37:50Speaker 07

  Has the dad appeared in flashback?

• 37:52Laci Mosley?

  Oh, hell, yeah. Hell, yeah. He all over them flashbacks. And like, sometimes the dad be dead and it'd be like, they sneak attack you with it, like they go into the grocery store and it's like, the dad loved this meat. Get sad again. I'm like, damn. So I personally don't watch this is us, uh, but the episodes that I have seen, I was like, this is too much. How y'all go milk a death for 10 seasons? You know what I mean? That's a lot. They haven't killed anybody else that I know of. No, maybe they killed the other dad now. Fresh dad, new dad to be sad about. I don't watch the show. People are gonna really.

• 38:30Laci Mosley?

  I have opinions about things that I don't know.

• 38:32Speaker 07

  You're gonna get in trouble.

• 38:34Laci Mosley?

  Now, listen, if y'all are looking for me, this is us. I would love to be on your sad show.

• 38:42Speaker 00

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• 39:13Speaker 08

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• 39:59Speaker 02

  She'd throw things, wander, and started hoarding. Mom's Alzheimer's was already so hard, but then we found out she had agitation that may happen with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease. And that was a different kind of difficult. So we asked her doctor for more help.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  Seeing symptoms like these in a loved one? It could be time to ask their doctor about Rexulti, Rexiprazole 2mg, the first FDA-approved treatment for this condition. Rexulti is proven to reduce agitation symptoms. Rexulti should not be used as an as-needed treatment. Elderly people with dementia-related psychosis have increased risk of death or stroke. Report fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, which can be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High blood sugar can lead to coma or death. Weight gain, increased cholesterol, unusual urges, dizziness on standing, falls, seizures, trouble swallowing, or sleepiness may occur. Learn more about these and other side effects at rexulti.com. Tap ad for PI.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  I'm glad I asked for help.

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Ask your loved one's doctor about Rexulti.

• 40:58Laci Mosley?

  So Madoff claimed to use the investment strategy called split-strike conversion, which is an actual trading strategy, but instead he simply deposited clients' funds into a single Chase bank account that he used to pay existing clients who wanted to cash out. So this is what we talked about when we explained Ponzi.

• 41:15Speaker 07

  Got it.

• 41:16Laci Mosley?

  So federal prosecutors said Chase should have known it would be used to commit fraud. And they charged the bank with two felony counts for failing to maintain adequate controls. Do you think Chase knew and just was like, there's billions of dollars in our bank? Like, who gives a fuck?

• 41:30Speaker 07

  I was more going to, why are you, that's like, you're constantly, you constantly need new income to keep the secret from getting out.

• 41:44Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 41:44Speaker 07

  So you're constantly hustling and raising more capital to give to people, because you're also building this lifestyle, right? I'm sure you have tons of fucking-

• 41:55Laci Mosley?

  Oh, opulence.

• 41:55Speaker 07

  Real estate and shit.

• 41:57Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 07

  Yeah. I don't know.

• 42:00Laci Mosley?

  You're tired just thinking about doing the scam?

• 42:03Speaker 07

  Yeah, kind of.

• 42:05Laci Mosley?

  When you're a career scammer, this is your profession. So staying ahead of your scam is your full-time job.

• 42:11Speaker 07

  Right.

• 42:12Laci Mosley?

  You know what I mean? You gotta have lots of refrigerators for cooling papers. You gotta have-

• 42:16Speaker 07

  Right.

• 42:17Laci Mosley?

  You know what I mean?

• 42:18Speaker 07

  Like, he didn't deliver the newspapers. When he had the paper out, he would just dump them in the empty lot.

• 42:22Laci Mosley?

  Oh, for sure.

• 42:22Speaker 07

  He would never throw them on the porch.

• 42:24Laci Mosley?

  No one was getting a newspaper. Absolutely not. So he's having a struggle to keep up with the scam. And I think that that's an amazing profession. Like, your whole job is just staying ahead, lies and schemes. The only thing that's bad is, is the stress that comes with that. Because if you lose your job, you can just go get another job. You know what I mean? But like, if your scam falls apart, you go into jail. So that's like, a lot of pressure. But I feel like that's also the pressure that CEOs feel in a company.

• 42:49Speaker 07

  But I don't think they-

• 42:52Speaker 07

  I don't think he thinks about jail has no fear like to him it's only about raising capital to keep the lie quiet and it's bananas. I don't know like seems like singular focus like because it's such it's so woven into the fabric of your life like are any moments where he seemingly was having joy with someone is he distracted by the

• 43:20Laci Mosley?

  I think you're getting high on it. I think that part of this reason scams are so fun is because it is

• 43:26Speaker 07

  You're pulling it off.

• 43:27Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. And so I think that he's probably having the time of his life.

• 43:30Speaker 07

  Thank you for explaining this stuff. This is helpful. I really understand.

• 43:33Laci Mosley?

  And also I feel like when you're a career scammer, you don't look at your scam as a scam anymore. It's a profession to you because truly everything is a scam.

• 43:41Speaker 07

  So you hold it with you you hold it with respect almost like this is what I do.

• 43:45Laci Mosley?

  Like the Parking Authority is a scam organization. Like you just gonna make me give you money because I put my car somewhere you told me not to like that's a scam. That's not a real organization. You know what I mean?

• 43:56Speaker 07

  Well, that is a real but that is a real organization.

• 43:59Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, because we said so. We could stop saying so and then it no longer would be.

• 44:03Speaker 07

  But then everything's a scam, right?

• 44:05Laci Mosley?

  Yes, everything is a scam. So that's

• 44:07Speaker 07

  No, but scam implies the word my connotation for the word scam implies some criminality or some hoodwinkery where someone is being duped out of something that they're not completely aware of. Like you can get a if you give someone a shitty loan, that's a scam. You're scamming them. But like if I give you a loan that's like two percent, let's say it's 2%. It's that's not great, but it's sort of what the real market is and you sort of are able to pay it. I'm not in the business, even though I respect the concept of money and digital transfers like that's a scam. But like in that context, isn't that like a real thing and not a scam?

• 44:46Laci Mosley?

  Nah.

• 44:46Speaker 07

  It's a scam.

• 44:47Laci Mosley?

  Because think about it. I give $93 to the Parking Authority. Where does that $93 go? I don't know. I still got potholes.

• 44:55Speaker 07

  Well, the money probably goes

• 44:56Laci Mosley?

  Where'd it go?

• 44:58Speaker 07

  The money probably goes to some city account.

• 45:00Laci Mosley?

  Well, we don't know. And truly, we don't know

• 45:03Speaker 07

  We don't know.

• 45:03Laci Mosley?

  what they're doing with it.

• 45:04Speaker 07

  But

• 45:04Laci Mosley?

  Because it's a scam.

• 45:07Laci Mosley?

  You get the DMV $400 every year for what? To verify your plates that were already verified? What they doing with that money? Making more of those little paper things that you pull out with the numbers on them? Is all a scam? So I just think that like, yup. So I just think that certain scams we've all accepted are rules. Laws are a scam. You know what I mean? Like, there were laws that said that I couldn't be in here with you, Matt. Scam, scam laws. Laws locked up a lot of black people from smelling weed and now we got weed apple stores. So it's like, I understand that you could feel like what you're doing is actually legitimate. And also maybe helping people. Because technically what he's doing is just like, if you need some money, I took some money from over here and I gave it to you. If you need some money, I did the same.

• 45:51Laci Mosley?

  The only issue was, is that in 2008, the housing market plummeted. And that affected everybody.

• 45:58Speaker 07

  And then everybody needed their money.

• 45:59Laci Mosley?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:00Speaker 07

  And Bernie never had the money.

• 46:03Laci Mosley?

  So really, is George Bush's fault that Bernie Sanders went to jail?

• 46:07Speaker 07

  Bernie Sanders?

• 46:08Laci Mosley?

  Bernie Sanders.

• 46:13Speaker 07

  They look alike, come on.

• 46:17Laci Mosley?

  Oh, a white man named Bernie, ah, that Bernie made off with to jail. Technically, really Bill Clinton's fault because Bill Clinton is who deregulated the banking industry. And that's how we got here with this whole thing. Anyway, um, so getting caught. Bernie employed his brother Peter, Peter's daughter Shayna Manoff, and his two sons Eric and Mike, which I talked about earlier. So he kept it in the family. He kept it close. Because you know, basically Bernie probably got like the white-

• 46:42Speaker 07

  Like Trump's criminality, he keeps it in the family.

• 46:44Laci Mosley?

  Yes, all his children.

• 46:46Speaker 07

  Circus of criminals.

• 46:47Laci Mosley?

  And we should always know that you're just looking at a scammer when they're surrounded by their family. Because those are people that they have, one, like spat out and made and manipulated for their entire life. So those are the people that they can trust the most.

• 46:59Speaker 07

  Good soldiers.

• 47:00Laci Mosley?

  I feel like Bernie was probably running like the white empire, like every day, like his family was having drama. Like, oh, who's gonna steal the company? Like, that's what I love about the show Empires, that they have no research decisions. So they had to keep everything very vague and just say, "The company." Because they don't, they don't have any actual like insight into what happens in business. So they're just like, "I saw Fred out back, he was trying to steal the company." Oh, him and Tim went to dinner last night. I think they were talking about the company. I love it. It's so vague. So I feel like Bernie's family, there probably was so much drama and so many things I want to know about. I'm sure that there's a movie there.

• 47:38Speaker 07

  I caught some of the Robert De Niro portrayal of him on the, I think they did like a mini series of Bernie Madoff. And the way he was playing him, I only saw like one of the episodes, it's a couple. But he was playing him sort of like this guy who was organizing his son's wedding and like freaking out about the China and barking at the help. But that was like one piece of the story that I happened to look into. So I guess if you're super wealthy and like you get to be, live like a king, then you get to be an asshole about your collections of things, your cars, your homes, your, your spas, your vacations,

• 48:21Speaker 07

  your hotel rooms, like I bet they take great delight in like shitting on people.

• 48:27Laci Mosley?

  Oh, I'm sure.

• 48:27Speaker 07

  That don't give them exactly what they want.

• 48:29Laci Mosley?

  Right. And also being rich is, I'm sure, very exhausting because living opulently is a lot of work. You know what I mean? You can't just call an Uber. You have to have your car serviced and like you have to hire people to maintain your richness. So Bernie confessed to his sons who work at his firm that he, and they claimed they were not aware of the scheme. They said he confessed, hey, guys, uh, I've been running a Ponzi scheme. He was like, Mark, Andrew, get in here. Uh, hey, guys, I've been running a Ponzi scheme. And they were like, what? All this money that came out of nowhere? Not legitimate?

• 49:10Laci Mosley?

  This is what they claimed. So Andrew turns his father in the next day, which I was like, what? Like you dropped dime on your daddy? I'm so confused.

• 49:21Speaker 07

  Well, that makes me think that it's real, that, that, that their awareness, or at least that would make me think that, oh my God, that is an argument for it probably was dropped the day before.

• 49:33Laci Mosley?

  Hmm. Sounds made up to me.

• 49:36Speaker 07

  It does.

• 49:37Laci Mosley?

  Like, first of all, there's no way in hell that they didn't know that their dad was doing crime. They were too close to the crimes. They definitely knew that this was a crime. I feel like he was about to get in trouble, so they dropped dime on him. But he kept his family and his wife out of it. They had to have known. There's a link of Andrew Madoff talking about turning his father in.

• 50:01Speaker 09

  We knew that we couldn't live with this information and not do something about it. And we knew we needed to speak to an attorney and we knew that that was going to lead to us turning him in. But we didn't know how to do that. You know, knowing the right thing to do and then knowing how to do it are two totally different things and we needed help.

• 50:21Speaker 07

  You so think he's lying his head off.

• 50:24Laci Mosley?

  Absolutely. First of all, what you mean you don't know how to snitch?

• 50:27Speaker 07

  I feel like a goody two shoes or something. I kind of believe that guy.

• 50:30Laci Mosley?

  Oh, I don't believe that guy at all. First of all, snitching is easy. Look at Takashi. He's snitching on people that he's like, we didn't even ask for. He's snitching on everybody. He's like, also, somebody double parked outside. So let me get a license plate. Like, he's snitched on everybody. Snitching is easy. You just go down to the police house. That's what I call it.

• 50:48Speaker 07

  The precinct?

• 50:49Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, you go down to the police house, the precinct, as you call it.

• 50:52Speaker 07

  Police house works.

• 50:53Laci Mosley?

  And you drop dime on your dad. Like, it's very easy. I think that they went to a lawyer because they were like, we are heavily implicated in this. And how do we snitch in a way?

• 51:02Speaker 07

  They were advised by their lawyer.

• 51:04Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 51:04Speaker 07

  We didn't know how to do this.

• 51:06Laci Mosley?

  Also, it was gonna come out because after the market collapsed, people wanted their money. And when people ask for their money and you say, I don't have it, people are gonna start looking like, hmm, probably a crime. So it's not like...

• 51:19Speaker 07

  So there's no, so let me just, sorry to interrupt you. But there's no world where you believe that these kids who are inside the business and the brother, like, I feel like the brother might have known. But I feel like the kids who like grew up when their dad, before he started the NASDAQ and like, they weren't even in the business yet. There's no world where he could have kept, because he obviously fooled the world. His father was fooling the world for 17 years that we know of, of the insanity that was built upon, you know, imminent collapse at any given moment.

• 51:55Speaker 07

  There's no world where those kids, certainly in this moment especially, could be truthfully saying like, we didn't know that it was this deep, that it was this huge.

• 52:05Laci Mosley?

  Absolutely not.

• 52:09Laci Mosley?

  Absolutely not. They're too close to it. You don't work for a company and not know that the company is a scam. You just don't. Like, I worked for so many companies.

• 52:19Speaker 07

  Yeah, you're probably right. It's financials too. You're right.

• 52:21Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, and I figured out scams at every company I've worked at. I used to ma- I used to wait tables and I learned the manager's codes. And then I would just do all the manager's job for them because they'd be drunk and coked out. This was in the Hamptons. So I became the manager. And I could have literally been stealing money. I wasn't because I'm not a thief, but I had all the codes. Like, if there's a scam to be had, people will figure it out.

• 52:43Speaker 07

  Right.

• 52:44Laci Mosley?

  It's just human nature. Like, if something is weird or flawed, you're kind of like, hmm, this isn't adding up. Like, they definitely knew. Definitely. I would put money on it.

• 52:51Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 52:52Laci Mosley?

  And I think that that's why they went to talk to lawyers beforehand, because they had to figure out what was gonna be, like, what they should actually say and what they shouldn't say.

• 52:59Speaker 07

  Well, they're rich people too. They're always gonna bring a lawyer with them at this point in their lives, right?

• 53:03Laci Mosley?

  Right. But I think the reason that Bernie Madoff had them drop dime on him is because he wanted to absolve his family from any guilt. He probably didn't want to take down his family with him. So he had them all pretend that they didn't know, but they knew. So, we knew we couldn't live with this information and not do something about it. That's what Andrew Madoff said. And poor Andrew. He died of lymphoma. And I find, like, stress, like, you know how, like, everybody in the OJ case like died of, like, cancers? Like, you know what I mean? When you be real stressed out.

• 53:32Speaker 07

  Evil manifests itself, and stress about evil gives you cancer?

• 53:37Laci Mosley?

  Well, I think you have to be somebody who cares to stress. You know what I mean? Like, Donald Trump's gonna live forever because he literally doesn't give a fuck. Yeah, so I think you have to, if you have guilt or stress like that, you know, manifest. So it says that's, that's what Andrew Madoff said of Bernard Madoff when he was talking about his decision to go to the FBI. You know, he couldn't live with it anymore. He admitted to investigators that he had lost fifty billion dollars of his investments or his investors' money. Bernie Madoff has always claimed he acted alone, but federal prosecutors thought that that couldn't possibly be true, and so did that. Doing so would require testimony from a true insider. Frank DePascali fit the bill perfectly. So Frank DePascali was Madoff's chief financial officer and right-hand man. So this man definitely knew about the scams.

• 54:22Laci Mosley?

  He pleaded guilty to ten felony counts in two thousand nine and proceeded to sing like a canary. De Pascal told stories included, he was basically like the white collar Takashi six nine. He um told him that he, they would produce stacks of false records for S E C examiners. Um and then he told him about.

• 54:40Speaker 07

  Put them in the cold?

• 54:41Laci Mosley?

  Mm hmm. Told him about the refrigerated trick, which I think is an excellent trick. I don't know if he had to start.

• 54:45Speaker 07

  Yeah, that's like counterfeit, like counterfeiters probably do that. If you gotta use the money fast, you gotta cool it off.

• 54:51Laci Mosley?

  Cool it real quick.

• 54:52Speaker 07

  Print that money and cool it off. We need to use it today.

• 54:55Laci Mosley?

  Right. He also, we're like, why are these bills hot? It was real hot in my car. Uh he also recounted how he and the other officers tossed the stack around the office like a football to make it appear to be worn. So they would. They would take the books and throw them back and forth at each other like, yeah, yeah, these are real old books. I'm like, well, did you put it in the oven? Try to make it turn brown a little bit? Like, how old the book supposed to look? By the time you get them, they're like, look like they were written in the nineteen sixty, or not even, like, I don't know. It's, this is insane. So they would throw this around the office like a football. But De Pascalley faced up to a hundred and twenty-five years in prison for his own crimes, but he died of lung cancer in twenty fifteen.

• 55:39Laci Mosley?

  Four months before his scheduled sentencing. I think that's a great way to go out. You know what I mean? You die before you go.

• 55:46Speaker 07

  He got lucky. That's the only thing good about his dying, you know? He didn't have to go to jail.

• 55:53Laci Mosley?

  Also, it's insane that he was gonna face a hundred and twenty-five years for stealing people's money. That feels excessive. That's too long. Like, money, stealing, now murder, but I know people who are murdering people who are getting way less time. That's crazy.

• 56:09Speaker 07

  These kids totally knew.

• 56:11Laci Mosley?

  Absolutely. They were probably throwing, I'm sorry.

• 56:14Speaker 07

  Cause if you see like.

• 56:15Laci Mosley?

  The office.

• 56:15Speaker 07

  If you see your chief financial officer hucking back and forth. A big old library sized accounting register for the year. You're like, what, what, what do we do here?

• 56:26Laci Mosley?

  What is Fred doing? Why do we have to throw the books around before the SEC comes?

• 56:31Speaker 07

  Why do we put the annual reports in the refrigerator?

• 56:34Laci Mosley?

  Yo, who took my beef stroganoff out the fridge? The fridge is just full of paperwork now. Man, it's, it's, I, I have fish. I know y'all don't like when I heat up the fish in the office, but damn. Like, there's no way you walk around this office and people are doing this shit. Crazy. Now, I watched The Wolf of Wall Street and I thought like offices probably were pretty insane, you know, before like HR and like regulations and rules. So I'm sure people were doing some wild shit in the office place.

• 57:02Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 57:02Laci Mosley?

  Uh, so maybe you could pass it.

• 57:04Speaker 07

  I don't know. Or was there ever like a legit? Like, does someone like that have like a legit art store? Just randomly like saying, no, like for real, like it's just its own company. I don't know anything about Bernie Madoff. I do sort of, but not really what he owned. Did he have businesses that just were their own thing? That? Like you would give Fredo a restaurant. In the mafia family.

• 57:27Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 57:28Speaker 07

  You would give Fredo the restaurant. Let Fredo run the restaurant. Let him, let him, let him end his days managing the restaurant.

• 57:33Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, I get what you're saying. He might've had some legitimate businesses.

• 57:36Speaker 07

  Up front, sorta, yeah.

• 57:38Laci Mosley?

  But I feel like it's weird to have all your kids work for you and not have them working close to you. Cause those are the people you can probably trust the most. Like, look at Fred DePiscali. He done told all the secrets. He didn't talk about the fridge, about the SEC catch. Like, he told everything.

• 57:49Speaker 07

  So what happened to the, the kids? Did they get prosecuted?

• 57:53Laci Mosley?

  So they did not get prosecuted.

• 57:55Speaker 07

  What?

• 57:55Laci Mosley?

  Um, December 11th, 2008, Madoff is arrested on one count of securities fraud. Then he's released on a $10 million bail. December 17th, Madoff is placed on house arrest. Which like, when you live in a mansion, what is house arrest? That sounds so nice. March 12th, 2009, Madoff pleads guilty to 11 felony charges, including money laundering, perjury, false filings with the SEC and fraud. There is no deal with the government associated with the guilty plea. So he didn't even get the hookup because like, when you're the ringleader.

• 58:26Speaker 07

  We don't need anything.

• 58:26Laci Mosley?

  Right, we're looking for you. Like, other people would get a deal, but not you.

• 58:30Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 58:31Laci Mosley?

  So March 20th, 2009, an appeal court rules that Madoff will remain in jail until sentencing. April 1st. Which is real trash, like he had to like stay in jail. That's wild. He's pretty old too. Federal Marshals seized Madoff's yacht, a smaller boat, and one of his homes in Florida as court ordered seizures of the financier's assets start to begin. So now, now the government's just taking all this shit back. Now, what happens when the government seizes something? Is it just goes to auction?

• 58:58Speaker 07

  I would think they have to auction it because the government doesn't need a mansion in Palm Beach, Florida.

• 59:02Laci Mosley?

  Right. I mean, now they probably would. Trump would use a mansion in Trump. You know what?

• 59:07Speaker 07

  Mar-a-Lago, Trump owns everything he.

• 59:09Laci Mosley?

  That's so crazy. And you know what a scam is, is that he really has used the presidency. He shows up to people's weddings at Mar-a-Lago and like does surprise photo ops with them and stuff. So people will book this place hoping that he's gonna show up and be at their wedding.

• 59:23Speaker 07

  He's that low-class shitty of a person, yeah.

• 59:26Laci Mosley?

  Like you are the current president of the United States.

• 59:29Speaker 07

  Let me go say hi to the folks at the steakhouse. Come on.

• 59:33Laci Mosley?

  Trump is a true scammer. Like, how you gonna be doing a club appearances? You the president. Go back to work, bruh. He literally does club appearances. I cannot take it. I feel like Donald Trump, like, oh, and tonight Donald Trump in bottle service. Like, what?

• 59:50Speaker 07

  We got a terrific new property in Tahiti. I just want to tell you about.

• 59:55Laci Mosley?

  Right. He's like.

• 59:56Speaker 07

  No, he's never more happy than making a pitch for another way to make money for his family real estate holdings, whatever.

• 1:00:05Laci Mosley?

  Which is just, it's crazy that we're just letting him get this money grab. Like, nobody's ever taken the presidency as a bigger money grab than Donald Trump.

• 1:00:12Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:00:13Laci Mosley?

  He's getting in every way possible.

• 1:00:15Speaker 07

  Yeah. And he's scamming constantly to keep it, keep it together. Maybe we'll get him.

• 1:00:21Laci Mosley?

  I mean, honestly, at some point I will have to do a Donald Trump scam goddess episode because he is a true scammer. Now, I can't praise him because he's a garbage human, but man, oh, man, does he scam. April 1st, 2009, Federal Marshals seized the yacht, the smaller boat, all of these things. June 29th, 2009, Madoff is sentenced to 150 years in prison.

• 1:00:41Speaker 07

  Copy that.

• 1:00:42Laci Mosley?

  July 14th, Madoff arrives at Butler Federal Correction Complex in North Carolina to begin serving his sentence. And then October 2nd, 2009, a $199 million lawsuit filed against Madoff's son, his brother, Pete Madoff, his niece Shayna Madoff. So basically the whole family, like they pulled up at the film reunion, they're like, we're serving you, we're serving you. You are served. You are also served.

• 1:01:05Speaker 07

  Was that a independent, was that a government lawsuit or those were independent lawsuits?

• 1:01:09Laci Mosley?

  Independent lawsuits.

• 1:01:10Speaker 07

  So private citizens were suing them or banks?

• 1:01:14Laci Mosley?

  Kevin Bacon was like, nobody puts baby in a corner, JK, that's not Kevin Bacon. But you know, he got, yeah, Kevin Bacon got footloose on them hoes, you know what I mean? He was, Kevin Bacon was probably at home dancing real aggressively outside in the rain and you know, because he got scammed by Bernie Madoff.

• 1:01:32Laci Mosley?

  So after he finished dancing by himself, he went and he filed a lawsuit. So Madoff's wife and high school sweetheart Ruth, Ruth truly is the beginning of all these scams. Because remember Bernie got that loan from Ruth's parents, yeah.

• 1:01:49Speaker 07

  Bernie married into money, yeah.

• 1:01:51Laci Mosley?

  So Ruth was never implicated in her husband's crimes, even though I'm sure Ruth was back there seasoning them books, honey. Like just giving them all types of flavor. You know, them books probably taste like Old Bay. But books have never been cooked better. Like, oh, these books taste good, like crime. So you know, she was probably involved, but she agreed to forfeit seventy-five million dollars in assets that were held in her name, including the couple's Upper East Side apartment. Damn, not the big apartment in the sky. The settlement with the federal prosecutors left her with two point five million dollars, which she reportedly allows her to leave a comparatively modest life in Old Greenwich, Connecticut.

• 1:02:31Speaker 07

  She had more money than that. There was more money somewhere.

• 1:02:33Laci Mosley?

  Hell, yeah, come on now.

• 1:02:34Speaker 07

  There was more money somewhere for Ruth.

• 1:02:36Laci Mosley?

  Islands, everybody's keeping their money in islands.

• 1:02:39Speaker 07

  Right.

• 1:02:40Laci Mosley?

  I guarantee she has so, so much more money. She's probably a scammer too. Look, scammer's no scammer. She married a scammer and stayed married to him for like fifty, sixty years.

• 1:02:51Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:02:52Laci Mosley?

  Dark facts, the family lost their fortune, friends and reputation. Because that's the other thing is like now they can't even pull up to the yacht club no more. Well, one, the yacht's gone.

• 1:03:01Speaker 07

  Right.

• 1:03:02Laci Mosley?

  So they can't pull up, but even if they walked up to the yacht club, everybody's gonna be whispering about them because they did like the most horrible thing you can do to other rich people, which is steal their money.

• 1:03:12Speaker 07

  Tell them you're not a yacht member, you're not a yacht club member. That's what rich people would do.

• 1:03:17Laci Mosley?

  Oh, they would take away the membership.

• 1:03:19Speaker 07

  Privileges, yeah, the country club.

• 1:03:21Laci Mosley?

  And they would stop talking to them. They'd be like Paxton, Gosson, what a Orson, you know, other rich names like, like, we can't talk to you anymore, Mark and Andrew.

• 1:03:32Speaker 07

  No, it's not even that. They don't, rich people don't even talk to each other. They just like, get out of their car and go to their locker and then they play golf by themselves and then they get back in their car.

• 1:03:44Laci Mosley?

  That's it?

• 1:03:45Speaker 07

  I don't think country club life, yeah, doesn't.

• 1:03:49Laci Mosley?

  Is that what I see? Are you a country club member?

• 1:03:51Speaker 07

  I'm not. My dad was when I was your kids briefly.

• 1:03:54Laci Mosley?

  My dad was too.

• 1:03:55Speaker 07

  Yeah. I like golf, but a country club life, I don't necessarily like at all.

• 1:03:59Laci Mosley?

  I liked it, but I didn't like the nicer ones.

• 1:04:02Speaker 07

  It's all.

• 1:04:03Laci Mosley?

  Cause the nicer ones didn't have golf carts, cause that's like not a thing at nice golf clubs. Um, and I was like, I'm not allowed to actually physically caddy for you. This is slavery. I'm not doing this. I was like, when you had the cart, it was cute. I would drive around. That was lit, but now I'm carried by. No, no, no, no. But so I guess you're right. So yeah, it's like Langston and Orson just don't talk to them anymore.

• 1:04:24Speaker 07

  Yeah, I'm, I'm sure.

• 1:04:26Laci Mosley?

  They walk into a room and then it just fills with whispers.

• 1:04:30Speaker 07

  I wonder if like, yeah, it's interesting because they're all at the same private schools too.

• 1:04:35Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:35Speaker 07

  The kids are.

• 1:04:36Laci Mosley?

  So they like really ruin their lives.

• 1:04:38Speaker 07

  It's cancer on the wealthy, uh, culture.

• 1:04:41Laci Mosley?

  And then 2010, Mark, the eldest son unfortunately, um, committed suicide on the second anniversary of his father's arrest.

• 1:04:49Speaker 07

  So he went first or lymphoma brought the son first?

• 1:04:52Laci Mosley?

  He went first and then Andrew died of lymphoma September 3rd, 2014.

• 1:04:56Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 1:04:57Laci Mosley?

  So yeah, it was a rough time for the kids afterwards. Um, and like I said, Bernie had many high profile victims, including director Steven Spielberg, actors Kevin Bacon, Keira Sedgwick, and the New York Mets owner Fred Wilponk. Which I feel like when you start getting famous people involved, like it's just, it's a rap. Uh, 2008 Madoff controlled billions of investments. In 2013, he earned $40 per month doing prison labor. Talk about a pay cut.

• 1:05:23Speaker 07

  And is he still with us?

• 1:05:24Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 1:05:25Speaker 07

  He's still in, uh, Carolina?

• 1:05:27Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. And it says that sixteen thousand five hundred and nineteen investors have filed claims against Madoff. Now, I think that if you.

• 1:05:35Speaker 07

  Well, shouldn't the government liquidate that mansion and, and create a fund for victims?

• 1:05:40Laci Mosley?

  I feel like that's not how a government works.

• 1:05:42Speaker 07

  They don't do that. They'll just turn it, they'll just sell it to Wells Fargo.

• 1:05:45Laci Mosley?

  There's never any restitution. And I always think that's fucked about the government too is like, I don't think that Felicity Huffman should have gone to jail for two weeks for, uh, you know, trying to scam the college thing. I think she should have paid half a million dollars and it should have been a scholarship for underprivileged students who need that money. Like what, what do we get out of seeing a, a beautiful white lady go to jail? What do we get out of that?

• 1:06:06Speaker 07

  It creates the, the myth that even rich people have to pay.

• 1:06:09Laci Mosley?

  But it's not even paying. That's not even equality. Like she was having these damn meetings talking about, oh, you know, I'm just spending time with my family before I go away. I'm like, which I know you probably went away longer shooting one of them TV shows, sis. Like, you're going away for two weeks. Two weeks. And like there are black people who went away longer for doing the same thing. But I don't know. It's just, I'm just like, I feel like there's a different way that could actually be restorative justice than us just putting you in jail for show.

• 1:06:37Speaker 07

  So if you had, say they liquidated five hundred million dollars worth of assets.

• 1:06:43Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:43Speaker 07

  That's not, I don't know. Those people have art and stuff. Where, what would you, you would just create a fund for, what would you do?

• 1:06:51Laci Mosley?

  See, that's the hard part because then it's like all these people are owed money from Bernie. So I guess the money should go to them. I don't know how this works, but also like if you're one of sixteen thousand people who got ripped off by Bernie Madoff, I think you gotta charge it to the game. I don't know if you gonna get that money back. I think you really just gotta charge it to the game, especially the people with lower amounts of money that look, I gave Bernie a thousand dollars in two thousand two. And when I'm gonna get it back, ma'am, we're not, we're not gonna give you back your money. Let it go.

• 1:07:22Speaker 07

  House, house wins. House wins.

• 1:07:25Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like Atlantic City, y'all gonna have to get out here and get your banana hammocks. Or if you classy like Matt is, you going down to the Ritz Carlton and you sit at the bar.

• 1:07:34Speaker 07

  Atlantic City has a Ritz Carlton. Whatever the nicest.

• 1:07:39Laci Mosley?

  Oh, I don't know the nicest thing in Atlanta. A cheesecake factory?

• 1:07:43Speaker 07

  No, you gotta go to the bar. That's Four Seasons like.

• 1:07:47Laci Mosley?

  Okay.

• 1:07:48Speaker 07

  Do you know what I mean? If you're gonna.

• 1:07:49Laci Mosley?

  So like a continental Marriott?

• 1:07:52Speaker 07

  Is that a nice one? Yeah, those are decent.

• 1:07:54Laci Mosley?

  The Hilton Garden.

• 1:07:55Speaker 07

  No, that's low. That's too low. That's too low. I mean, Four Seasons would be the minimum. Mandarin. I'd hang out at the Mandarin.

• 1:08:04Laci Mosley?

  A Four Seasons in Atlantic City?

• 1:08:05Speaker 07

  I don't know.

• 1:08:07Laci Mosley?

  Okay, they have a Mandarin though, right?

• 1:08:09Speaker 07

  They probably do, right?

• 1:08:10Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:10Speaker 07

  Those are nice.

• 1:08:11Laci Mosley?

  So you go, you put on your nicest banana hammock and

• 1:08:15Laci Mosley?

  and bow tie. You can go make long eye contact with people at the bar, okay? That's the only way you can get your money back from Bernie Madoff, cuz he made off with it. We've reached our last segment of the show.

• 1:08:27Speaker 07

  Uh oh.

• 1:08:27Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 1:08:28Speaker 07

  Sorry.

• 1:08:28Laci Mosley?

  Scammer of the week. And this is just a segment where I highlight a infamous scammer, or you know, maybe a little known scammer who I just really think is worthy of our praise.

• 1:08:40Laci Mosley?

  So this week's scammer of the week is eighteen year old Isaiah Atkins, who became a fake state senator to give paid speeches at high schools. Atkins claimed to be newly elected state senator who had been appointed to replace Republican Senator Dave Burke. He has since been charged with telecommunications fraud and impersonation of a peace officer. When Atkins showed up to school, he said he was there to fill, he said he was there to fill in for Burke as a guest speaker for a social studies class at Mohawk High School. Atkins pulled up to the small town high school in northern Ohio with a driver's and two aides. So.

• 1:09:23Speaker 07

  To pose as a senator or congressman?

• 1:09:26Laci Mosley?

  To pose as a senator.

• 1:09:27Speaker 07

  As a senator. State senator?

• 1:09:28Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 1:09:29Speaker 07

  Not a federal, not a federal, state center.

• 1:09:31Laci Mosley?

  Yeah. And what I love about this is like, you know, people don't read. Uh, people don't know that much about their politics, especially if we're talking local, you know what I mean? And also I love that this is a scam with props. I love props and he came with a driver.

• 1:09:48Laci Mosley?

  If he had come by himself, I would be like, this is bizarre. I don't believe you. But if you come with three other hired actors. I don't know.

• 1:09:56Laci Mosley?

  I'm believing it. Get him, get him a little wired earpiece. I'm into it.

• 1:10:00Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:10:00Laci Mosley?

  You know, you can get that at Radio Shack. So many fraud utensils you can buy at Radio Shack and also at Staples. They're necessary and Kinko's, these are necessary places for fraudsters. I'm sure anytime you step in one of those stores, just know somebody's in there buying things for crime.

• 1:10:16Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:10:16Laci Mosley?

  Just know. So, so Kit, Ken Radcliffe, the superintendent for the school said in a statement, the presentation, although not polished, was one that someone might expect from a young inexperienced newly appointed senator. The real senator had planned to speak in mid-January, but a US government teacher at the school received a call from 18-year-old Atkins, who allegedly claimed that Burke had become ill and resigned.

• 1:10:45Laci Mosley?

  So, and this is like present day. I'm trying to find the year that this happened. Cody, can you grab me the year that this happened because I truly need to understand why somebody called you and told you that the senator was ill and could not.

• 1:11:00Speaker 07

  Resigned? The senator was ill and resigned?

• 1:11:06Laci Mosley?

  So he called her and was like, hey, what's up? Um, it's me, um, Isaiah. I'm calling because Senator Burke actually, you know, he got a bad call and he decided to quit senatoring. So I'm gonna be feeling it for him, right? What? This line doesn't even sound that plausible. What the hell? So, A- Atkins had been named the Senator's replacement, because that's how senators work. They just get a replacement.

• 1:11:30Speaker 07

  Pro-Tam, yeah.

• 1:11:31Laci Mosley?

  So, he said he would visit in Burke's place, but needed to move up the date. Now, I need you to also realize that this is a US government teacher that he called and told the teacher that the Senator was sick and he was gonna be the replacement Senator, because that's how government works. You are a US government teacher, sis. She needs to be fired. Frankly, she's the one who needs to be facing some charges.

• 1:11:58Speaker 07

  She didn't sniff it out.

• 1:12:00Laci Mosley?

  You're teaching kids about US government and literally somebody called you and told you.

• 1:12:05Speaker 07

  She should have sniffed it out there, yeah.

• 1:12:07Laci Mosley?

  I don't even think she should have sniffed it. That's right in your face.

• 1:12:10Speaker 07

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:12:12Laci Mosley?

  He could have basically just called and be like, hey, I'm lying.

• 1:12:16Laci Mosley?

  Hey, I'm about to tell you some lies real quick. You cool? Administrator said that Senator Atkins arrived December fifteenth and showed his real identification and gave a presentation. Why did he want to do this so badly?

• 1:12:28Speaker 07

  Was he getting paid or no?

• 1:12:30Laci Mosley?

  He must have been getting paid.

• 1:12:31Speaker 07

  No, Senator can't get paid, maybe. Probably not. Just to pose as a Senator, I guess.

• 1:12:37Laci Mosley?

  So, when the real Senator Burke showed up for his scheduled presentation in January fourteenth, school administrators and students discovered that they had been duped. He must have been getting paid for this.

• 1:12:45Speaker 07

  So, it came and went.

• 1:12:47Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:47Speaker 07

  So, days later, the real Senator showed up.

• 1:12:52Laci Mosley?

  And he's eighteen years old also, so.

• 1:12:56Laci Mosley?

  He's an eighteen-year-old Senator, says he. So, when Atkins said that his intention was to expose security risks in small-town schools.

• 1:13:10Laci Mosley?

  These countries. He said, "These country schools think it can't happen to them. I was duping to prove a point that these kinds of things can happen. They could have easily Googled me, and they didn't." Authorities said Atkins was arrested after they were alerted of the incident by the state senate. Burke, the real Senator, called it "an extremely elaborate scheme." I'm saying that too. Like, what did you get out of this?

• 1:13:33Speaker 07

  Is he, so I guess my question is, when he's, he's saying, "I'm proving a point that security at small-town schools isn't tight?"

• 1:13:41Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, but what?

• 1:13:42Speaker 07

  Is that a baloney excuse? Or is that really?

• 1:13:47Speaker 07

  It does explain it.

• 1:13:49Laci Mosley?

  It does, but it's also like, how did you get these other two people to come play aides in this car? Like, what is wrong with you?

• 1:13:57Speaker 07

  That is true.

• 1:13:57Laci Mosley?

  This is a weird thing to do. It's like, hey, y'all, do y'all want to come drive me down to this, uh, country school? Yeah, it's about seven mi- it's about seven hours away, uh, little country school, and then y'all be pretending to be my aides? Why?

• 1:14:11Speaker 07

  Yeah, and I gotta, it's also stupidity on the inside, too, because like, there's gotta been some follow-up calls when that second senator showed up. Like, the front office is, okay, I'm coming by Friday, don't forget, and then he shows up, and that's when they sniffed out they'd been scammed, but not until then, like, whoever's getting those calls to schedule these events, do you know what I mean?

• 1:14:33Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:34Speaker 07

  There's two senators scheduling events at this school, right?

• 1:14:37Laci Mosley?

  You don't have a calendar? You weren't like, oh, we got-

• 1:14:39Speaker 07

  Through reception or whatever, like, it's a school, so it's like, I'm Senator One, I'd like to do it on December fourteenth. Great, Senator, okay, make sure we'll call back a week before or not. Second Senator, also talking same person, hey, just want to know, uh, December twentieth is still on? Yeah, twentieth, do you know what I mean?

• 1:14:58Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, you are the senator with a different name.

• 1:15:02Laci Mosley?

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, teachers are underpaid and overworked, okay? They were just like, I don't know, sure, you're both the senator, who cares?

• 1:15:10Speaker 07

  I got kids screaming.

• 1:15:12Laci Mosley?

  Right. We just want to break from the kids. You gotta watch them for thirty minutes while you give them this speech.

• 1:15:18Speaker 07

  That's true.

• 1:15:19Laci Mosley?

  They're like, I just need a smoke break, I don't care. Okay, who comes in here? I'm the senator, we're all the senator, who gives a fuck? I love it. Uh, so shout out to Isaiah, I don't understand the scam, but I appreciate your dedication to pulling it off, truly. All right, guys, we've reached the end of the episode, can't believe it.

• 1:15:35Speaker 07

  Wow, time flew.

• 1:15:37Laci Mosley?

  You were amazing.

• 1:15:38Speaker 07

  Did I do, do good?

• 1:15:39Laci Mosley?

  You did fantastic, fantastic.

• 1:15:41Speaker 07

  I just want to make greatest hits.

• 1:15:42Laci Mosley?

  Oh, greatest hits, greatest of greatest, this is like now.

• 1:15:45Speaker 07

  Season two, season one, are we season one?

• 1:15:47Laci Mosley?

  We're still season one right now. This will be like the now of Skid A- now that's what I'm talking about, scams! And then like, number one song, Matt Walsh.

• 1:15:55Speaker 07

  Got it.

• 1:15:56Laci Mosley?

  Yes. Um, where do you want to be found? I ask people where they want to be found.

• 1:16:00Speaker 07

  Uh, I guess I have an Instagram, I do, Mr. Matt Walsh.

• 1:16:04Laci Mosley?

  Mr. Matt Walsh.

• 1:16:04Speaker 07

  That's pretty simple.

• 1:16:05Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:05Speaker 07

  I occasionally do it, yeah.

• 1:16:07Laci Mosley?

  Yes, okay. Any shows, anything you want to plug?

• 1:16:09Speaker 07

  Okay, February twenty twenty, I'm working with, uh- Scripts and we're dropping Finding Marcus Trunk, which is a six or seven part podcast series, mini series about a documentary filmmaker.

• 1:16:24Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 1:16:25Speaker 07

  Whose archive was discovered later in life, like he was no longer around.

• 1:16:30Laci Mosley?

  It's very funny.

• 1:16:31Speaker 07

  I think it is.

• 1:16:32Laci Mosley?

  It's very funny. I get to see pieces of it. It's super funny.

• 1:16:35Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 1:16:35Laci Mosley?

  Oh my guys, you can always find me at D I V A L A C I Diva Lacy on all platforms. If you want to email in any scams that you've retired or times that you've been scammed, please share them with us at [email protected]. You can find us at scamgotuspod on Twitter, on Instagram and Bitcoin.

• 1:16:56Laci Mosley?

  All right, guys, congregation, stay scheming.

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