The Hard Truth About Growth Most Founders Avoid. Hormozi Hotline feat. Leila Hormozi | Ep 918

Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast, you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth. Wanna scale your business? ⁠⁠⁠⁠Click here.⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials: ⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube ⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠Acquisition ⁠

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Alex Hormozi?

  Guys, I have a special, special treat for you. This is, uh, this has only happened one other time in human history. This is historic, so you guys, you guys are gonna get this. And it's come from downtown Vegas. My lovely wife, Lady Layla herself, Queen Lay, is coming to join us and spit some fire on the Mosey Hotline. And we're going to be taking the calls together.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  For the vote, thank you for this opportunity. Thank you. So, yeah. My name is Joshua. I run a performance-based marketing agency called Asnitzer's for kitchen and bathroom remodels and auto living companies. Currently at 8K per month, profit is 7K. We work on a paper show model and position in four high-end projects, so not like discounts, etc., without retainers or ad spend on bare ads. So we take the risk there. Right now, it costs me around, yeah, right now it costs me around $250 to acquire a customer on the last, that's where I ran the app. I have a $1,000 setup fee and I charge $500 to $600 per qualified appointment show.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  To get them one appointment show, yeah, to get them one appointment show, it costs at the worst times, like I'm aiming for 210. If I don't get them at least 10 appointments in the first month, I refund them the setup fee. Now, currently, to, but you know, I do have two clients on this, but I have three other clients still in tree service, which I kept for cash flow because that's what I ran before. And my question is from just what I told you guys now and from your experience, what do you see, which I currently don't see? So what would you do in my position to absolutely like scale this or maybe do differently?

• 1:51Alex Hormozi?

  Are you keeping the customers?

• 1:52Speaker 01

  I don't know. Until I'm, basically, I want to keep them until I'm at 10K sufficiently in the modeling and then completely ditch.

• 2:04Alex Hormozi?

  So the question was, I mean, I don't think you should cut your cash flow. You have, you only have like four customers, right?

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Currently at five.

• 2:14Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so you have five customers and that means that if you're doing eight thousand dollars a month, you said eight thousand top line, seven thousand bottom line, but you said your cost of getting a show is two ten on five hundred. Those margins don't make sense. What am I missing?

• 2:27Speaker 01

  So for the eight K, I'm not basically counting in the two hundred dollars which is lost. I'm just counting the three hundred.

• 2:35Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, got it.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  The one guy I'm currently, the one guy I'm currently onboarding, so I only have one guy currently on it. Uh, yeah, the other guy is currently onboarding.

• 2:43Alex Hormozi?

  And when you say guys on onboarding, you mean a client?

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, the one company I'm currently onboarding to get them into the five hundred dollar thing. I got his one thousand dollar setup fee, basically.

• 2:56Alex Hormozi?

  Got it.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  He's not actively.

• 2:57Alex Hormozi?

  And you have five clients, right?

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, currently I'm looking to scale this now, but.

• 3:03Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, I mean, go for it. I know you're gonna say what you're gonna say.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Well, I was just thinking that we have to run some more water through the well.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  So I need to get more data.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  You need, yeah, you need to get more data. I mean, at that point, that sample size is so small. I think we need to focus on getting a bigger sample size.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  And then we can go from there.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  I understand. Okay. Well, what is, what would you say? What is just your opinion about the model, the offer? I'm, you know, I'm running it because all other agencies are basically running this. Paper appointment and.

• 3:36Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, they, you know, and they pay for the ads, but like the trough is really low in that market. So I was thinking about doing that.

• 3:44Alex Hormozi?

  Dude, I think everything's fine. I think everything's fine. The, the, I'd say one risk that I see that's relatively significant is your cost per show relative to the revenue per show is kind of low. I would say the guys who I see like really murder it are at like twenty percent. So you're, you're at like sixty, uh, I'm sorry, forty. So I would, I want to see if we could drive that down because my fear of the business is that when you take this to scale, you'll be less efficient and your margins are going to compress. That's like, I would say like, that's kind of like my biggest red flag. Overall, the model of lead. Costs and arbitrage, there's nothing wrong with it. I've seen some massive agencies that run that model. The next issue that you're going to run into is the types of businesses that you're serving. So you're going to want to go up market for people who can spend fifty thousand, a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand dollars a month in ads.

• 4:30Alex Hormozi?

  That's, that's what you're going to want to go after because the volatility of your business is going to be predicated on the volatility of their business. So when you go after, and this is super common for small business owners, for everyone who's listening, is like, you go after, if you go, most people who are poor, I'm not saying you're poor, but like most people are starting out a business, go after other people who are also smart, starting out a business because that's where your confidence level is. But their business, they don't know anything either. Right? So it's the blind leading the blind and you're like, what's wrong with my business? All these people are churning and they're churning because they don't know what the hell they're doing in their business either. And so you're going to want to earn the right to go up market as fast as you can. And if you have five clients that pay you what they're paying now, versus having five clients and each one pays a hundred thousand dollars a month,

• 5:13Alex Hormozi?

  you could run the same ops and have a hundred times the revenue.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, the next, the next thing that you're going to want to realize is that, like, we've done the pay per show model. And we also had a software that used to enable the pay per show model. There's two things that you want to watch out for, which is one, when you're doing pay per show, a lot of the times the businesses are going to think, well, if they show but they don't close, why the fuck am I paying you? And so then you're going to be really tempted to be like, oh, can I just help them sell these people? I'm just gonna also, maybe I should start a sales agency and close these motherfuckers. That's the next thing that's going to happen. The, the second piece to it, and by the way, don't do that, go up market instead, because people that are up market have their own sales team and they understand that concept, that even though you get somebody to show, it doesn't mean that they're guaranteed to close you. So they have trained salespeople. So do not give into the temptation. Don't try and serve an avatar that isn't best for you more.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  That's the biggest mistake people make, which is like, you're serving an avatar that isn't your best avatar and you try to go above and beyond for it. You just don't want to do that. The second thing is that, okay. That's like, I feel like that's like 2010.

• 6:16Alex Hormozi?

  That was good.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  That's fire.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  The second piece is that with the paper show model, here's the place where it goes wrong, which I saw firsthand, which is why agencies had churn with it, which is that customers want to be able to predict how much money they're going to spend with you. So if you look at churn and you look at customer retention, the customers who retain the most are the customers who understand how much they're going to pay. And so one thing that you can do is you can give people a range estimate or you can give them a heads up different times through the month as to how much you're going to be billing them. Now, it seems contrary because you think, okay, well, if I tell them how much they're going to be paying, they'll be like, oh, my God, that's so much. But the reality is actually, if they get a bill that's unexpected, that is like, it looks, and it's like, once you get one unexpected bill from a company, it's like by the second one,

• 7:01Speaker 02

  there's a 50% likelihood that they're going to churn. So think about how you can communicate with those customers. Maybe it's every other week. Maybe it's every week to show them what their tab looks like.

• 7:13Alex Hormozi?

  Or by increment of revenue.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, or by increment. That's a great one, too.

• 7:16Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, just like every 5,000, or whatever, every 1,000 and 5,000 they spend, you just let it, you just automatic, just letting them know that this is happening. We can turn it off whenever you want.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  So I think another piece that you could also ask is when you're getting the sale, when you're onboarding them, ask them what their budget is. I know it seems contrary, but it's like, if you want to get them to spend more money with you, you also need to show them that you're okay spending as much as they're comfortable to start. Does that make sense? And you can coach them up from there once you get buy-in.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I currently, what I currently do is I built like this lovable thing where I put in the numbers, so close rate, average contract value, et cetera. And basically, I do that on the sales call though, so that's a big nugget.

• 7:59Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  In terms of the onboarding, because then I can always like weekly tell them like, hey, this is how much you should spend and that's what you should expect in the long term to get a return. So thank you for that. I mean, if you were me here, how would like you think about going from like 8K per month right now to like 50K in this effect model as fast and profitable and operate sustainably?

• 8:21Alex Hormozi?

  Dude, this is, we answered it. So I want to ask you, what do you think we, what do you think we just said? Just want to make sure you're routine.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  That I, that I need to get more, that I need to get more data and like just sell more, problem?

• 8:35Alex Hormozi?

  And? And?

• 8:37Speaker 01

  And that I should not switch my business model and get them to basically convince me to get them to sell. And also make sure that they know how much they get charged.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  And go up market.

• 8:56Alex Hormozi?

  And go up market.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Up market, the one thing I want to say. What do you think about the editor? One million above, because I was doing, but.

• 9:07Alex Hormozi?

  Just go up.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  You guys have an opinion on this?

• 9:08Alex Hormozi?

  Just go up, just like in your ads or your outreach, look for people who are doing 10 times those numbers.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  Number go up good.

• 9:14Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, big number good.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 9:18Alex Hormozi?

  Cool, like you can literally have the same size company you have in terms of headcount, literally just add a zero to what the people that you're trying to attract are, and you will make significantly more money and live your life more.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:30Alex Hormozi?

  Cool?

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 9:31Alex Hormozi?

  All right, rocking.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Should I, should I, should I increase that up?

• 9:36Speaker 02

  No, I don't think yet, dude, it's five people.

• 9:39Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  You gotta get more water through the well. Also, there's a, like, for everybody listening, like, it's like, okay, increase your prices, but like, you haven't even gotten to the threshold of delivery. So until you get to a point where a delivery is stressed and you can see how your team and how your company operates when you are stretched, when it comes to your client load, do not increase your prices. You increase your prices when you know that your product and your delivery is rock solid. So we gotta get more water through the pipes first.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got it. Thank you very much.

• 10:06Alex Hormozi?

  I appreciate you.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Next caller?

• 10:08Alex Hormozi?

  Next caller.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Hello?

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Hi.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, super nervous right now, but thank you for the call.

• 10:15Alex Hormozi?

  You should be terrified.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  What if I'm nervous?

• 10:17Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Uh, my name is Jazz. I run Winnipeg Digest. It's a local newsletter slash media company.

• 10:24Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  With an audience of 110,000 people in Winnipeg.

• 10:28Alex Hormozi?

  Sweet.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  So that's about 70,000 on socials, 40,000 newsletter list in the last 18 months.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  We right now do. Yeah, thank you. We do about $10,000 in revenue right now, 6,000 profit through local advertising.

• 10:43Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  Is that per month or per year?

• 10:45Speaker 01

  That's per month, yeah. Okay. And then, and then six, we currently have six annual advertisers, mostly paying about one thousand per month, with two paying two thousand per month. And then the rest of the revenue comes from single one-off ads. My question is a little two-part, so the first one is, how do I scale to a million without running out of local advertisers in the future? Which I'm afraid of, or running into a supply constraint because we only send out twelve newsletters per month? So basically, we have twelve primary. No, we send out twelve newsletters per month, so it's three per week.

• 11:19Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, got it.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

• 11:21Alex Hormozi?

  And these are digital, right?

• 11:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, these are, these are digital email newsletters.

• 11:26Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, got it, okay, okay.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:28Alex Hormozi?

  And are you?

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that's my question.

• 11:31Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, so I would not be worried about running out of advertisers, there's a hundred and ten thousand people in the city, there's, you can for sure get enough advertisers, that's not an issue. So put that one away. Um, you running out of ad space is more, uh, more possible.

• 11:47Alex Hormozi?

  So you have how many people on your list?

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, so we have forty thousand on the list, the city is a million people.

• 11:54Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, the city is a million?

• 11:54Speaker 01

  A hundred and ten thou- yeah, so the city is a million people, the hundred and ten thousand is what our audience size is, so it's seventy thousand on social media.

• 12:02Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, work, dude, you have so much room, you have so much room, so much room.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that's kind of, so, okay, so if I have room, then kind of from a growing perspective, then I'm afraid that we'll run out of ad space, we'll run into a supply constraint.

• 12:18Alex Hormozi?

  No, you're not gonna run out of ad space, you're gonna have to make sure that you're pricing your CPMs appropriately. So, said differently, if you have, you know, two hundred and fifty thousand of the people out of the million in the city on your newsletter, you could charge a trip, you, I mean, every ad would be, you'd be, you know, a hundred thousand dollars, like, it would be a lot.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 12:37Alex Hormozi?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 12:38Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, so the space itself, obviously you have limited, you don't want, you don't want to send your entire newsletter, it's just all ads, right, that's not gonna work. The way that media scales is via impressions and, and quality of impressions. And so you can charge more for the same space, that's, that's what you have to do, so it's like, how do I scale this business, you get more eyeballs.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  But it's like there's not that or like with I don't know if there's enough businesses that can pay me two hun- like a hundred thousand dollars per ad, you know?

• 13:06Alex Hormozi?

  There are for sure businesses, well, again, you're you're selling twelve ads a month, there's a thousand dollars a month in in advertising is not like many businesses can do that. Many businesses can do five or ten.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 13:20Alex Hormozi?

  Dude, like my dad used to run, my dad's a local business owner, right? He used to spend ten fifteen thousand dollars to be in like Baltimore Digest or something, or Baltimore's whatever. One, one magazine per month went out, he'd spend fifteen thousand dollars to be in that thing for like a half page, right?

• 13:37Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 13:38Alex Hormozi?

  So.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, so that kinda that kinda sent me, I guess that kinda answers my second question too, which was like, it was either, okay, should I expand to new cities, stay in the current one but niche down, so let's say go, start another one, but say Winnipeg Real Estate Digest or something, right? Or just keep.

• 13:57Alex Hormozi?

  I want you to keep going this way. I do not think it's worth you uh splitting, splitting your attention right now. I think you have way more, way more impressions to capture. The other piece that you wanna consider here though is like, you're sending a newsletter, it's like, are there other places you could, like, you have seventy K on social, it's like, we can charge for posts, we can charge for stories, we can charge for YouTube video integrations, we can charge for newsletter, like, I would rather you do all that stuff, first, before even considering niche down for now.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  Okay, but what you would say the next step would be to niche down after like certain.

• 14:33Alex Hormozi?

  No, for, I don't, I don't even want you to think about niche down, I want you to just do more, you need way more.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, and then, okay. And from a acquisition standpoint of subscribers, we are currently running Facebook ads and acquiring subscribers at like a dollar forty. Right, so that's that. So, my question then is, do we continue to pay, scale Facebook ads, cause right now it takes about, like, three months to break even on a subscriber.

• 14:59Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so you already know, yeah, I mean, that's fine, that's.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, they take. Okay, and so keep scaling Facebook ads in social.

• 15:08Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. You can also sell people longer, you know, periods of time on the front end.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  And is there, and is there like a front end offer like, because I know a lot of people in the States try and, try and achieve like negative costs for acquiring a subscriber, right? So, um, having some sort of a front end offer, would you say I could still continue to just push B to B advertising?

• 15:32Alex Hormozi?

  You can push B to B advertising as you do your Facebook ads, so people opt in for the newsletter. Just have something called an SLO, which is self liquidating offer on the thank you page.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 15:43Alex Hormozi?

  Do you have anything on the thank you page that you sell on?

• 15:46Speaker 01

  No, nothing right now.

• 15:47Alex Hormozi?

  Bro, I'm about to change your life. I'm about to change your life. You ready?

• 15:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:53Alex Hormozi?

  I want you to offer a, a ten pack of guide to Winnipeg's best restaurants, guide to Winnipeg's best new, uh, spots, guide to Winnipeg's best ski. Dessert. Best dessert, like literally, just put a, put ten different kind of like magazines, do it once. Uh, make that ten pack like thirty seven dollars, put it on the thank you page. If you can get one out of thirty seven people to buy it, your cost of acquisition is zero, and then you can scale things to fucking millions.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  So those are the physical, like, physical things or like digital value?

• 16:25Alex Hormozi?

  You can make it digital, it's fine.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Okay, I was literally about to offer that for free in our welcome sequence, so.

• 16:32Alex Hormozi?

  There we go.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Okay, and yeah, okay, no, I think that kind of answered.

• 16:37Alex Hormozi?

  I feel like, I feel like that was pretty good.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, no, that was crazy, but they do.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  No, like, I mean, I've been, I've been like going back and forth with like, oh, should I start a Christmas holiday lights company on top of this?

• 16:52Alex Hormozi?

  No, dude, no, no. No, that sounds fucking awful. No, it sounds horrible. Do more of this, all you had to do is add a self liquidating offer on the front end, you'll be able to grow the hell out of your media, you can charge more, you can get more advertisers in, done and done. You could also, to your concern, you could also parse your list, right? So let's say you triple your list size, if for some reason you can't find advertisers, you can pay more, which I wholeheartedly reject. But just to show you that you can still be creative here, you can say, I'm gonna send, uh, twelve emails to these people, twelve emails to these people, and twelve emails to these people. List A, B, and C, because you made the list three times fake, and you can charge that many more times.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Uh huh. Okay, got it. That answers, I think, all my questions. Thank you.

• 17:34Alex Hormozi?

  Alright, rock and roll, man. Appreciate it.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. Bye bye.

• 17:38Alex Hormozi?

  You're welcome.

• 17:40Alex Hormozi?

  You should take this one.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  What are the questions that we're prompting people with?

• 17:45Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, I feel like I smashed that one.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna answer a marketing question, so tell us what the next caller is.

• 17:52Alex Hormozi?

  Hopefully it's a people question. They'll be like, "People, they're alive."

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Anything but marketing?

• 17:56Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, anything but.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Anything but marketing, I can help answer. I'm not gonna.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  What's up, guys?

• 18:03Alex Hormozi?

  What's up?

• 18:04Speaker 02

  Hey!

• 18:06Alex Hormozi?

  Tell me about this.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I run a company where I essentially help remote high-ticket sales coaches with their fulfillment by providing job opportunities and then coaching for their students slash clients on best application processes, interview, support, and prep, and things like that.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  So you, which part of the delivery do you?

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Can you hear me? What part of the delivery do you do?

• 18:37Speaker 01

  So I post the job opportunities inside of their community. And then I do group coaching calls once a week with some of the clients. And then DM support, answering people's questions, reviewing their application videos and things like that.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  Okay, what do they do? They're responsible for sales?

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, so they're sales coaches, so they're teaching people the sales side of things. And most of them, before I come into the business, are doing part of the, you know, helping them land jobs. But often are struggling with having enough job opportunities. And the coaching part of actually teaching people what to do properly to get hired.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  Got it. So they're really good at getting the clients, they're not good at getting the clients the opportunities. So you bring them the opportunities. You're responsible for the second funnel.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Okay, great.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Um, so I guess like the bottleneck that I have is we currently have forty five um communities that we work with.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  We work on a retainer model. Uh, we don't charge the businesses anything for the recruitment uh services, not really recruitment services. It's just like posting their opportunities in the community. Um, and so the sales coaches pay us a retainer. Uh, it's anywhere from two to four thousand dollars a month. Um, and I run the entire business and fulfillment. And so I guess my bottleneck is that the business is not a business. It's me. Um.

• 20:03Alex Hormozi?

  Do you have any replacements when you get them opportunities?

• 20:07Speaker 01

  No, so it's just like a flat retainer model.

• 20:10Alex Hormozi?

  No, no, no.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Providing the job opportunity.

• 20:11Alex Hormozi?

  You're providing, let me say differently. These guys get jobs at businesses that need salespeople, correct?

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:20Alex Hormozi?

  So who, those businesses, you just give them people for free?

• 20:25Speaker 01

  Exactly. So I don't charge the businesses anything. Um, so that that doesn't become a bottleneck, so that I can have as many job opportunities as exist in the world.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  So it'd be like, I would come to you and say, I need remote salespeople, and you would be like, I'll give you some for free?

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Yes. So let me know anytime you need sales reps.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  I, I mean, I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't believe that you were any good.

• 20:48Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, there's that.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Well, we have uh anywhere from five hundred to six hundred job opportunities that we post a month. So we've got a lot of people who do trust us.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  I, you get what I'm saying. Okay, so what's the problem in the business?

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Well, just that, uh, I guess I'm bottlenecked by I have no team and we have forty five clients and so uh, I'm not sure where to find the right talent, how to incentivize the right talent for um the fulfillment side, like coaching, finding the right opportunities. I, I guess I, I just don't know what direction to go in to scale beyond where we're at currently.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  So let me ask you, in the business right now, where do you spend most of your time? Is it on sales? Is it on fulfillment? Like, which piece?

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't really spend very much time at all on sales. It's pretty much all on fulfillment. So I guess like liaising with businesses who are looking to hire sales reps.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  And answering questions and getting on group coaching calls with the students of my clients.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  How many group coaching calls a week are you getting on?

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Currently around 20 per week. So a little less than half of the total clients we work with have that as part of the services I provide.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Gosh, okay. And then of that time, the rest of the time you're spending DMing people and essentially like answering questions in the group?

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  Okay. And then what would you do if you weren't, if your time wasn't being taken by doing either one of those things?

• 22:19Speaker 01

  I think it would just mostly be acquisition, finding more clients and making bigger, better connections with businesses and people that are hiring sales reps consistently.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think the first thing that you should try and get off your plate is the questions. Because if you can bring somebody on and you can train them on answering the questions in the group, that's like, it's almost like they're onboarding to then take over calls from you. My question is, when you're on the calls, what is the, like, if you were to tell me the top three things that you're teaching them on the calls, what would those three things be?

• 22:55Speaker 01

  I mean, I think the, like, the application videos would be the number one thing. But the majority of those calls and answering people's questions is all like personalized. So it's based on their situation and their past experience because I work with some people that have a ton of sales experience and some people that, you know, this is going to be their first ever, you know, go at sales. And so it's mostly personalized, like, how can we frame the experience they do have or the lack of experience in the right way to be able to help them land a better job than they have currently or their first job?

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's essentially a lot of career coaching to a degree, just in like a less traditional sense.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Okay, so you're looking for somebody that can essentially be a career coach for the sales, remote sales opportunity peeps?

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty much. And I think that struggle is, I don't know who has the understanding of the industry and I guess enough expertise and obviously I can coach that, but to have authority in those conversations that isn't a great sales rep who could make a lot more money selling than helping people get jobs.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  So there's two different models that you can think of when you think of a coaching business like this. And I think this goes for like any coaching business in existence. We've talked to so many and I've helped structure multiple teams like this. Like there's really two models that work and there's trade-offs in each one, meaning like you kind of just want to pick your problems. And so I'm going to describe each one and you can tell me which one you think you would rather have, the shit that comes with it. The first one is that you hire people that are going to be full-time. The downside of this is it's going to be harder to find those people because they're competing with these other opportunities. So just like what you said, it's like they could go make more money somewhere else, which means the type of people you're going to find are people who directly want to learn from you and they see this as a learning opportunity, not an earning opportunity. And they one day want to open up a business similar to yours. So there's two downsides here,

• 24:50Speaker 02

  which is one, they're going to be competing in terms of cost. And so they're looking at these other opportunities. They're not going to come in for super cheap, even though they're trying to learn, because the anchor is just very high as what they're going to earn elsewhere. The second side to it is that there's going to be a finite timeline on this because they're coming in to learn. And so once they feel like they've learned enough that they can go off on their own or go do something somewhere else and learn more, they're going to do that. However, the benefit is that it's less management for you because if you bring these people in, you probably only need a couple of them, literally, to take care of all the clients that you have. And you get a ton of discretionary effort from them because they're full-time employees with you and they're trying to learn. So they want to go above and beyond because they're trying to acquire the skills. That makes sense?

• 25:31Speaker 02

  That's the first model. The second model is easy to find and also hard to manage, which is find people that essentially are doing what you just described. They're already those coaches making a lot of money, but they want to make more money and they want to have influence. They like the status. They like the teaching. And so as a side opportunity, They can do this for 10 or 15 hours a week, maybe even less. And so then what you would do is you would get more of those people. Say you need, based on 20 calls a week plus whatever, say it's 40 hours. Maybe you need four or five of them to cover you. You pay them a lot less. You get them fractionally and part-time. The downside to it is that it's going to be more management from you because you have to build out a schedule.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  You're going to have to make sure that they're all clock in, clock out, whatever, all the compliance. And so I would say that if you have a hard time finding the people, then maybe go with a model where you have the part-time coaches coming in. I would say the other upside to doing the part-time is that if you lose one, it's not a big deal. You can replace them fairly easily. There's a lot of key man risk in the first model. And so if you don't feel like you're going to really be great at retaining them, I typically tell people to steer away from that model.

• 26:41Alex Hormozi?

  Let me, yeah, I want to bang you back on that. So the nice thing with the partial model that Leila just outlined is that, one, you're placing all these salespeople right now and you already have a history of placing a lot of salespeople already, right? And they already went through your training and whatnot. And so I would say, take your most successful alumni and say, hey, want to make an extra five grand a month and give back to the community that you came from? Many of those guys would probably say, sure, I'd happily do it. Because a lot of salespeople, they do get tired of selling all the time. And so this gives them a little bit of a break and feel like they're giving back. Yeah, exactly. So I actually really like that model. And given the fact that you recruit all these salespeople, I don't think it'd be that hard. Second, because it would kill me and eat me up inside to not at least say it. You can double your revenue really easily. Can I tell you how?

• 27:27Speaker 01

  I would love to know.

• 27:28Alex Hormozi?

  So I hear where you're coming from with the, hey, I want to have as many opportunities as possible so I can find as many placements as possible. So making it free is a way to do that. I hear you there. But you probably know of all the candidates you have that there's probably 10% of them that are killers and are going to do well, right?

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:47Alex Hormozi?

  Right, have a tier that's 2,500 bucks or $5,000 per head. Then you say, hey, all these people are free. I personally screen these ones and give them a blue checkmark from me. And these ones are 2,500 bucks or $5,000 a pop. So if you get 600 placements a month is what you're doing. If 60 of them are paid at 2,500 or 5K, that adds $150,000 to $300,000 a month to the business.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  That makes a lot of sense.

• 28:15Alex Hormozi?

  Boom, roasted.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  You're like, I gotta get that one out.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I definitely, I definitely need to implement.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  Call that a money model.

• 28:21Alex Hormozi?

  Call that a money model, right there. Right there.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  You should write a book.

• 28:25Alex Hormozi?

  I should write a book about that. Does that, that help? So that, Lila solved your, uh, your Lila model, and that solved your money model. Rock and roll?

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. That, that's awesome. Thank you, guys.

• 28:36Alex Hormozi?

  I appreciate it.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 28:38Alex Hormozi?

  That was a fun one. That was good.

• 28:41Alex Hormozi?

  That was nice.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  A little spice.

• 28:42Alex Hormozi?

  I had a little spice of life. That was fantastic.

• 28:46Alex Hormozi?

  All right, let's do next following. Let's rock and roll.

• 28:50Alex Hormozi?

  Who else we got?

• 28:52Speaker 03

  Hey, I'm, I'm Brian. Uh, hey, Alex and Lila.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  Hey.

• 28:55Alex Hormozi?

  What's up?

• 28:57Speaker 03

  What's going on? So, I run a online coding bootcamp for adults called Parcity.io. And I'm in a pretty frustrating position where we've like basically plateaued at around 30 to 40 people per year. We, we have pretty good reviews, people seem to like us. I do pretty much only organic through a podcast and around 30,000 followers on LinkedIn. And I'm just wondering, how do I hit this magical 100 people per year target?

• 29:22Alex Hormozi?

  What do you charge?

• 29:25Speaker 03

  $9,200.

• 29:27Alex Hormozi?

  So $9,200 is what you charge, and you've got 30 to 40 people a year? Who are buying it?

• 29:35Speaker 02

  How long have you been doing it?

• 29:38Speaker 03

  This business has been around for about five years, and I've been running it for the last two.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Did you buy the company?

• 29:45Speaker 03

  Yes, I did. Like, the seller financed, uh, purchase, yeah.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Okay, understood. And last year, was it also at the same number?

• 29:55Speaker 03

  Basically, yeah, like the, it had a pandemic, you know, plateau. It went up to like 50 or 60 people during the pandemic when it was, the, the software developer market was really hot. And now it's kind of gone to like 30 or 40. We're, we're priced under most other coding bootcamps, and we're much more personalized. But it just feels like, yeah, it feels a little stuck at this point.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Where are your leads coming from?

• 30:17Speaker 03

  I've had a good experience, bad. Almost all through a podcast I do that has about 10,000 listeners per month, but it just feels like, it, it's frustrating. I'm like, that's a lot of people, but it's like no one's actually.

• 30:28Alex Hormozi?

  No, dude, 10,000, is it 10,000 unique, or there's 10,000 downloads?

• 30:33Speaker 03

  It's 10,000 downloads.

• 30:34Alex Hormozi?

  Right, and how many podcasts do you make a month?

• 30:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  Uh, two per week, yeah, eight per, eight per month.

• 30:41Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, so call it, you know, it's twelve hundred per episode downloads and not all downloads are listens.

• 30:48Speaker 03

  That's right, yeah.

• 30:49Alex Hormozi?

  Right, so you might only have a thousand people, right, you might only have a thousand or five hundred or six hundred people, and yes, we read the chat, by the way. Um, and there's only five hundred or six hundred people who are actually listening, so the fact that you're getting thirty or forty, that actually sounds like

• 31:01Speaker 03

  Good.

• 31:01Alex Hormozi?

  You're getting, yeah, you're getting five percent of your podcast to convert.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 31:07Alex Hormozi?

  So guys.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Has your podcast grown in the last year?

• 31:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, it did, but I think that was like from doubling the amount of episodes. So I think it was like, I was looking at it like, oh, great, I'm getting more people.

• 31:19Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that was the issue. And so I've been trying to like explore LinkedIn, I'm like, okay, I have like thirty thousand people on LinkedIn and then trying to write posts daily.

• 31:31Speaker 03

  Not as many as I think, most of the people come from the podcast and we ask, well, hey, how'd you find out about it? It's almost always through the podcast. There's, there's like, I'd say, let's say twenty-five percent comes, comes through LinkedIn and that's about it.

• 31:44Alex Hormozi?

  All right, so you have a marketing issue, no one knows you exist, and Mm-hmm. The, it's, it's great that you have a podcast, podcasts are very, very difficult to grow because there's very low suggestibility. So you would want to take, so I see podcasts and like email list, for example, is very middle and bottom of funnel.

• 32:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:02Alex Hormozi?

  And so you need more top of funnel awareness type stuff. So LinkedIn works, that's fine, but I would also be looking at, I mean, I know it's just you, but I think you just need to make way more, like, instead of making more podcasts, I think you need to make more LinkedIn content, uh, for sure, because that's where a lot of people, like, I think that's a good place. I think X is also a pretty good platform for people who are trying to like buy, you know, coding stuff. Also, repurposing that content's super easy between LinkedIn and X because it's almost all words. But beyond that, if you take the words and then you make videos of those words, shorts or longs, combine the best three, four, five LinkedIn posts you make and then make those into longs, uh, for YouTube. If you combine all those things together, you'll get significantly more traction. Beyond that, I'm assuming, what's the, uh, what's, how are people actually buying from you?

• 32:49Alex Hormozi?

  So I see a LinkedIn poster, you're good, I see LinkedIn poster podcasts, what do I, what's, what, what gets me to take action?

• 32:57Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Like at the end of each episode, I'm like, hey, you know, go to plug D O and fill out this application.

• 33:03Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, okay. So thing one is we need a better lead magnet. So it'd be like, I would say you have your course thing. I would say give the first module away for free.

• 33:14Alex Hormozi?

  And say, hey, like, learn how to do this in under 60 minutes. The first, like, the one thing that's really valuable would be like, oh, my God, this is amazing. And then all you do is all those people get that thing for free. You'll get way more leads. You can call them up and then sell them.

• 33:29Alex Hormozi?

  Because a direct ask of like, go apply is tough.

• 33:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 33:35Alex Hormozi?

  Right. Super bottom of funnel. Like, you have a very bottom of funnel business, and so that's why it's not growing, because everything is about just conversion.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was also thinking, like, we've had a lot of companies that we've worked with that are in this space. And the ones that I've seen that have had the highest revenue, they actually, they make YouTube videos. So the reason I think it works well for that is because like, it's a very, um, like, a lot of people that get into coding, like, they like watching a lot of videos on coding. So it's like, listening to it is very different than like, watching it. I almost feel like you could take your podcasts and literally just turn them into YouTube videos. I think that you'd get a lot more buy-in, there'd be a lot more trust, and then you probably honestly get way more lead flow that way, because it's a platform that's easy to grow on compared to podcasts. So it's like, I wouldn't stop doing the podcast.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's part of that.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, in conjunction with what Alex said, I think, the thing I'm thinking, it's just like, you're putting a lot of effort into a channel that's not going to give you a lot of return.

• 34:24Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Like, my podcast and Alex's podcast, like, that is like the, it's the one thing that probably comes from like, I would say like, if we want to do it the right way, it would take a ton of effort and be difficult to distribute across other channels, optimize for those channels. Whereas YouTube, if you made YouTube videos, you could take them and put that across Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, LinkedIn, like, it's such a better source piece of content that when you're ready to scale again, you could scale that across so many different platforms, versus the podcast always just audio.

• 34:54Alex Hormozi?

  Video turns into audio much easier than audio turns into video.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 34:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I'm kind of scared to do it, and that's probably keeping it going.

• 35:02Alex Hormozi?

  Good. TLDR, two things you need to do. Thing one, get a better lead magnet. Thing two, you need to advertise way more, which means you put out higher valuable content across all platforms, especially ones that have high deliver, uh, high discoverability.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, tracks and you and so you probably wouldn't do abs at this point, right?

• 35:19Alex Hormozi?

  No, I think you can, I think you just, I think you can post, no, I think, no, I think you can, you, you have so much meat on the bone with organic right now. I would do, I would just double, I wouldn't double down, I'd, I'd five X down.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  Okay, I appreciate that.

• 35:33Alex Hormozi?

  All right, man. Rock and roll. Appreciate you.

• 35:35Speaker 03

  Cool. Hey, thank you.

• 35:38Alex Hormozi?

  All right, later, brother. Simon, appreciate the shout for the book. I'm glad you like it. He's referencing money models.

• 35:45Alex Hormozi?

  It's also free on my podcast for those of you who are broke. It's also a free course on my site for those who are also broke. It's also there. You don't even have to opt in. You can just watch it. Um, but we're here now, so let's do this. Next caller is ready with it. Next caller, okay. Let's body slam.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  What's going on, Doc? Can you hear me?

• 36:03Alex Hormozi?

  Yes, sir.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  Going on, my name is Josh. I own a brick and mortar pest control company that focuses mainly on recurring service plans.

• 36:12Alex Hormozi?

  Cool.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  For residential clients.

• 36:13Alex Hormozi?

  Yep.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  So currently my constraint is optimize my offer. I feel like there's room for improvement.

• 36:20Alex Hormozi?

  Optimize your what?

• 36:23Speaker 03

  Um, my constraint is optimizing my offer.

• 36:25Alex Hormozi?

  Offer.

• 36:26Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 36:27Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 36:28Speaker 03

  Yep. Um, I've been bundling basically all the services into like a mother of all bundles type of deal.

• 36:33Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 36:36Speaker 03

  I basically can't upsell without since I'm bundling everything and margins get tighter, but my close rate does increase.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  But when we don't bundle the offer, that happens, close rate, margins do increase along with upsell potential. Um, so my question is, which of the two would you deploy to scale the quickest? Um, currently at a million dollars, started the business a year ago, looking to get to five next year.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  My question is, you said closer decreases when you take away the bundles, right?

• 37:06Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, so basically, yeah, with the, uh, that bundle, um, I basically just can't sell, yeah, pretty much.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  I'm curious, do the customers, do you sell less of a specific type of customer? Like in terms of like income range or type of house or something like that?

• 37:26Speaker 04

  It's all upscale, like, uh, yeah, basically, upper, upper middle to higher. Is that, was that what you're asking me?

• 37:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was just trying to understand if like, there's a specific type of customer that's more attracted that you're not getting when you switch? That you lose with the switch, but that the ones that you're getting are gonna have a, uh, a greater LTD. So it's like, kinda worth the trade off, but I was just trying to understand if there's a difference in customer.

• 37:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's, uh, so the, the customer, um, basically.

• 37:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, it, it's like, so the customers are pretty much the same. It's really not gonna change.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 38:03Speaker 04

  So, I pretty much, I'm focusing on like, the higher customer here that's willing to.

• 38:09Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, let me push back real quick. So, you said your constraint is your offer. I would say, how do you know that?

• 38:17Speaker 04

  Well, so, well, so, because of the, I would tell, really honestly, it's like that close rate. It drops when we, um, when we don't bundle and when we do bundle, it goes up. I mean, the business is rocking and rolling, it's doing great, honestly, I know, and I'm just wondering if that is the constraint.

• 38:35Alex Hormozi?

  It doesn't sound like the constraint.

• 38:39Alex Hormozi?

  Like, what's not, like?

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Why is the business not doubling revenue?

• 38:42Alex Hormozi?

  Like, yeah, what's stopping you right now? I mean, you said your close rate's fine when you have the bundle, so sell the bundle, okay, unless there's some other major problem.

• 38:52Speaker 04

  So, the only thing is that the upsell potential drops, so the LTD does drop.

• 38:56Alex Hormozi?

  Well, then, why don't you raise the price on the bundle?

• 38:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, I guess, could just raise the price on the bundle. I mean, it's like.

• 39:03Alex Hormozi?

  Love this for us.

• 39:05Speaker 04

  I will raise the price on the bundle.

• 39:09Alex Hormozi?

  This is great, I'm glad we, uh, I'm glad we had this.

• 39:13Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, you're, we have this thing that everyone wants to buy, but it has lower margins. It's like, well, but you're, if you're especially going upscale, they don't know the difference. So, you know, tack on twenty, and then probably like, double your margins.

• 39:25Speaker 04

  They won't even know, yeah, that's your right.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 39:28Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 39:29Alex Hormozi?

  This was fun.

• 39:29Speaker 04

  Appreciate it. I'm gonna be seeing you guys in, uh, September.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  Have fun!

• 39:34Alex Hormozi?

  We'll rock and roll, man, we'll, we'll see you out here.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Pile so much more money you make in the meantime.

• 39:38Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, that'd be lovely.

• 39:41Speaker 04

  A full lot of money, like, you guys.

• 39:42Alex Hormozi?

  You bet.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  Have a good one.

• 39:44Alex Hormozi?

  We have a next caller, okay?

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's do next caller.

• 39:47Alex Hormozi?

  Who's on, who's, who's on first?

• 39:51Speaker 03

  It is, uh, this is Ball. So I run a marketing agency for martial arts schools.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  I offer lead generation and yeah, I offer lead generation and appointment setting services. Um, I currently am at four hundred twenty K in revenue, hundred K in profits. Um, and yeah, I guess the problem right now is that I kind of started this just doing freelancing. Kind of stumbled into martial arts on a whim after having success with the clients. Um, I figured out like a repeatable system to get them results. Get people showing up, get people coming up to the first class, and that's kind of where I'm at today. Um, I guess my problem right now is, you know, I'm selling three months contracts and uh, churn's pretty high still and I kind of just didn't really fix the churn issue.

• 40:37Speaker 03

  I kind of just started selling a lot and getting clients and I have a good relationship with all of them, but uh, I've been kind of stuck at this range. It's uh, thirty-five thousand per month for a while now and uh, clients just leave for a lot of reasons out of my control. Either A, I do a great job and they can't handle long coming in, or B, they don't have the patience to kind of keep going with it. And uh, I think.

• 40:55Alex Hormozi?

  Do you want to take this one?

• 40:56Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't uh, run a martial arts school myself, so sometimes I have an issues with sales and um, I can't really run it. So I kind of just grew that agency on a whim.

• 41:08Alex Hormozi?

  What do you want to have happen before I answer the question? What do you want to have happen?

• 41:11Speaker 02

  Goal, yeah. That's the question I like to start with.

• 41:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think right now I'm trying to figure out if I should keep pushing on this or if I should pivot. And then like, I didn't really set out to start an agency.

• 41:25Alex Hormozi?

  What do you want to have happen? What's the goal? It depends. Whether you should push or pivot.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  You try and make a certain amount of money, you try to sell a business, do you want a lifestyle business? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, what do you want to end up?

• 41:35Speaker 03

  I think right now, I think I want to learn how to make a lot of money and exit and.

• 41:41Alex Hormozi?

  This business will not exit, that's for sure.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, we, we can tell you that.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:48Alex Hormozi?

  That you will not exit.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Okay. So the question is, can you learn something from this business? And make money at the same time, or is there a better opportunity?

• 41:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I thought about potentially selling my book of business and then opening up and pivoting to some sort of brick and mortar kid education business. I mean, I've kind of fleshed out the scripts on how to get parents and getting them invested into a Marshall's program and the whole nurture sequence behind it. So I thought about investing the money because I've saved about a hundred thousand dollars in the business and I was thinking of kind of leveraging that into maybe investing in an actual brick and mortar and learning how to scale that. But I guess I'm just trying to figure out, do I, you know, I'm in a good spot? Should I push the agency, grow it, you know?

• 42:29Alex Hormozi?

  I'm curious what Leila's gonna say. We'll probably have two different pieces, like we'll probably come at this from two different angles. So you'll get a double trouble on this one.

• 42:37Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 42:38Alex Hormozi?

  But I'll say this. Congratulations on learning how to generate leads in a market and work them and get them in. You've you've learned acquisition. Super valuable and you've learned it for a specific avatar, right?

• 42:53Speaker 03

  You did that.

• 42:54Alex Hormozi?

  The next step, this business, like I could tell you where this is going to go. You would have to, you'd have to basically change this entire business in order to make it a bigger, sellable business, which is essentially the same as starting over. If, and that's all based on your goal, because the reason that you have the churn you have is because Marshall's studios in general tend to have you know, they have high churn, they're typically not very good business owners. Not very good, but just they're small, right? They're very volatile. And so that volatility is a bunch in your business and volatility in their business and your business, therefore creates a business that is not valuable. Right? And so that's going to be based on them. The only way that you can get those types of customers who are volatile inherently to be sticky is to look at the things that those people already buy that they don't turn out of.

• 43:35Alex Hormozi?

  So what are the things that they buy that they don't turn out of? If you were to stick with this, and I'm just using this as a mental construct, and then I'll get into more specific examples of what I think you should do next. But big picture, you could, their their payment processor, they don't turn out of, right? Their CRM, they don't turn out of.

• 43:51Alex Hormozi?

  Their insurance, you know, I mean, like, like, there's, there's things that they don't turn out of. Marketing stuff, they will turn out of left and right and center, right? So I think that you have this whole kids' education thing. If it were me, I would prefer you go and find an industry, if you want to do brick and mortar, which is fine. If you want to go brick and mortar, I would find an industry that already has a product or service that people don't turn out of. Then I would apply your skill of learning acquisition to that business. And then you'll be able to, like, you can go and start acquiring businesses. Um, and then filling them up because you know how to acquire and those businesses, um, will already have the stick in place. And so you'll have the full stack.

• 44:36Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  What was your experience prior to this business?

• 44:41Speaker 03

  Uh, well, I worked for a marketing company and I learned the generation there. And then I kind of get, um, the company ended up getting sold, so I ended up, you know, trying to. Get a freelance thing and I learned, yeah, I took, I got my own client. And then after I did that for about two years and here I am with a bunch of clients and I don't really know what the next step is, so.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Okay, that's great to know that you came from a marketing background.

• 45:05Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 45:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I, I, I thought about getting into the, uh, kids' education space because, you know, I did martial arts because. Um, I came from a sports background, teaching kids like different sports, specifically frisbee, um, which was cool. Um, and I guess I thought about, you know, buying some sort of like tutoring business or kids' education and taking my marketing skills there and growing that some. But, uh, just because if my goal is to learn how to sell and, and, and sell a company is, I'm not sure if the agency space is there too. That's from my head that.

• 45:38Alex Hormozi?

  Just find something that has high revenue retention, high stick.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, you want to find something easy to market. Like, I think it's really impressive that you've done what you've done for martial arts studios because we've worked with thousands and it's tough. So I can say that objectively. Uh, it's like, do you have a, you know, like a level eight skill that you're using on like a level three opportunity?

• 46:03Speaker 02

  And the opportunities that you're kind of presenting, they're not really that much better. It's like maybe a level four.

• 46:07Alex Hormozi?

  They're just different.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  I'm like, can you get a level eight opportunity to match your level eight skill?

• 46:13Speaker 03

  And what is that to you guys?

• 46:15Alex Hormozi?

  It's something that is revenue retention. I'm just telling you right now, it's something with revenue retention. Yeah, if you just solve for that, because once you have revenue retention, if you don't attract customers, you just grow a business every year, it just gets better. That's, I mean, the hardest thing is revenue retention.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  I, I just want to like, open up your mind. You're looking at opportunities that are linear. I want you to look at opportunities that are exponentially different than what you're doing right now. And I think the reason you're thinking linearly is because, you know, without noticing, we have these beliefs, right? That we keep ourselves in these boxes, thinking like, this is what I'm good at. The fact that you're very good at marketing, you need to find a great product that retains customers easily to market. What that is, maybe it does scare you or makes you nervous. You're like, I know nothing about that. That's okay. You can figure it out. And the thing that I tell people a lot is it is just as hard to build a small business as it is to build a big business. Both of them are going to be painful. You're going to suffer. There's going to be late nights.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  It's also just as hard to build a, I would say like a more advanced business as it is a small business. I can tell you that from personal experience, like building a gym up to what it needs to be is as hard emotionally as building a large company like acquisition.com. And they are hard in different ways, and they're also easy in different ways. So you're going to have 50% shit, 50% good, no matter what opportunity you pursue. I would love to see you pursue an opportunity that is at least worth the 50% shit you're going to go through. That's something me and Alex talk about a lot, which is like, pick an opportunity that's worth the pain. Because it's going to be pain no matter what. This goes for everybody on the call. It's going to be hard no matter what. So pick one. Even if you're like, I don't believe that I could do it, you will figure out a way.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  And everybody does. Even when we started acquisition.com, you know, we didn't know anything about investing or buying companies or doing any of those things. And we learned along the way. It's just that you have to have the belief in yourself to just start. Like, you're not going to feel ready for any opportunity that's exponentially different than what you're doing right now. You get ready by starting.

• 48:10Speaker 03

  Got it. Just got to find. A level eight opportunity.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  I would literally, I would go on, I would literally go on chat GPT and I'd be like, tell me what an opportunity is that has great revenue retention. Here's all the industries I've worked in. Here's all the skills. Where is something where I can get insane revenue retention? That is five times more likely to sell and be worth something and make me, you know, maybe it's fifty million dollars compared to these businesses I'm in right now. Just like, look at the list and then think like, okay, well, like, where do I have a thirty to fifty percent shot of success?

• 48:45Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  I mean, like, I don't know how to explain this. Like, I have never felt ready before I tried something. I'm always like, I have no fucking idea if this is gonna work. I could totally fail. This could totally be terrible. And like, that's gonna happen no matter what. It's just like, you're picking things that are small. And here's the thing that's even worse. You said you want to sell a business? Well, then that means you have to stay in the game, which means you have to be challenged.

• 49:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  If you pick something that you know you're gonna win, this is like where high performers just die. And I can tell that you're a high performer, is that you pick something that's too easy. And then you get disengaged. And then you're like, I can already play this out, know where this is gonna end up, and I don't want to go there. And then you don't even want to see it out to sell the thing, because you already know where it's gonna go. It's not interesting.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Do you have anything to add?

• 49:29Speaker 03

  No, you're right. Yeah. I watched, yeah, yeah. No, last year, I remember I was at the ten K rate and I, I watched a bunch of Alex's videos. And he just said, double ad spend and keep the course. And here I am a year later, double bad spend, kept the course, and I'm now, I guess, just gotta find a, you know, higher productivity.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  Also, I would just say this, you're gonna learn more trying something than you are going to learn thinking about it. We don't learn while we stay in our heads. We learn, we get out into the world and we do stuff. So like, think about a way, like, how could I test these opportunities? Can I be an affiliate of a company like this? Can I be an affiliate to an insurance company? Could I just come in and be a contractor to help build up this X company? Like, you could literally just find one big client, be like, I will do your in-house marketing, just so you can learn the business.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  Damn, I would love to do that.

• 50:19Alex Hormozi?

  And use the cash that you have as your savings so that you can be aggressive with your learning.

• 50:24Alex Hormozi?

  As in like that's your best day so you don't have to worry about living.

• 50:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've been, I've been doing the whole like Chipotle thing, frugal thing, I think I'll pack first and the cake.

• 50:33Alex Hormozi?

  Good man.

• 50:34Speaker 03

  Cause you guys, I appreciate you guys. No, I appreciate that.

• 50:36Alex Hormozi?

  Appreciate you man.

• 50:37Speaker 03

  Awesome. You're in present. I'll do the thing.

• 50:39Alex Hormozi?

  I appreciate you dude.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  We have another caller.

• 50:43Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, a caller, we've, a ringer is at the door.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Someone has a ring.

• 50:47Alex Hormozi?

  Um.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  You're right. Who do we have on the line?

• 50:51Speaker 03

  Devin.

• 50:52Speaker 02

  Devin? What up Devin?

• 50:54Speaker 03

  So, I've got a small YouTube channel, like really small. And I, I just don't know where to go other than just make more content.

• 51:04Alex Hormozi?

  What are you saying?

• 51:04Speaker 03

  And I've watched your stuff, basically, I don't have anything to sell.

• 51:08Alex Hormozi?

  What do you make YouTube about?

• 51:10Speaker 03

  Should I have a product?

• 51:12Alex Hormozi?

  What are you, what's the YouTube about?

• 51:15Speaker 03

  It's a hunting, they can outdoors, I'm an outdoors.

• 51:18Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Oh, that's cool. And how many subscribers do you have or views do you get a month?

• 51:24Speaker 03

  So, I've got 2,000 subscribers.

• 51:27Alex Hormozi?

  Good.

• 51:28Speaker 03

  And the last, in the last 28 days, I've gotten almost a quarter of a million views, mostly from short. I haven't posted many long yet.

• 51:35Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 51:38Alex Hormozi?

  Alright.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  What do you do to make money?

• 51:42Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, how do you live?

• 51:45Speaker 03

  I have a job. I work 40 hours a week.

• 51:47Alex Hormozi?

  What do you, like, what do you do though?

• 51:48Speaker 03

  Put the damn ground. I make lawn mower parts.

• 51:53Alex Hormozi?

  Alright.

• 51:55Alex Hormozi?

  I think you're early. So, I do think that you should start making some longs, because longs is what's going to deepen your, kind of influence the audience, you want to, you want to demonstrate more expertise around hunting. Um, and if you're like, I don't know how to do that, just take three or four long concepts, sorry, short concepts that were good and just loop them together. Not, not literally loop them together, just, you know, make a video that covers each of those, uh, each of those concepts, you know, in tandem and work your way to a five or eight or 10 minute video.

• 52:22Alex Hormozi?

  And I would start doing that. I just think you're, I think you're early dude.

• 52:26Speaker 05

  Okay. So just basically just do more.

• 52:30Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, and, and do better too. You know what I mean? Like I think you gotta, you gotta learn a little bit more about the content game.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  I would say like, what, right now, are you spending all of your time making content for YouTube outside of work?

• 52:43Speaker 05

  Just about, yeah.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:45Speaker 05

  Every minute I keep spare, I'll do, yeah.

• 52:47Alex Hormozi?

  There you go.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  How long have you been doing it?

• 52:52Speaker 05

  Well, I started the channel several years ago and kind of got very, very inconsistent. And then I, about two months ago, I decided to really get after it.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, okay. I think then we can both tell you this, which is like YouTube is a game of consistency. Like that's just, that's how the platform works. So I think the biggest thing that you can do right now is just be consistent. Because if you look at like how to go from just like, okay, you're mediocre to just like, good, solid, it's consistency. And then if you want to get to like great, it's like continued improvement while being consistent. So I guess the question is, how many shorts and how many longs do you commit to making per week?

• 53:32Speaker 05

  So I was, at one point I was doing one a day and I was, it was great, but I'm kind of back down to like three a week, three and four a week.

• 53:43Alex Hormozi?

  You mean for the shorts, right?

• 53:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, sir.

• 53:47Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. I think, I mean, you do have to do more and you have to do it consistently. And I would just tell you that like right now, you're not multi, like just for your own self. Do not consider yourself having done this for years. You've been doing it for eight weeks.

• 54:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 54:02Alex Hormozi?

  So you're super early now.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:04Alex Hormozi?

  You're super early.

• 54:05Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 54:06Alex Hormozi?

  So I just like, I wouldn't even think about monetizing it right now. Like you just want to take five AM to nine AM and five PM to nine PM. Your five to nine, beginning of day and a day. And I put all of that into making sure no matter what, I got out, I get out one short a day. And then on my weekends, I'm going to make sure that I get at least one long out.

• 54:26Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  What's your goal?

• 54:28Speaker 05

  One more question. What's my goal?

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Do you want to quit your job? Do you want to build a company?

• 54:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I believe if I can just replace my income from my job with this.

• 54:42Speaker 05

  Then I could scale it up and uh I guess my number would be about ten grand.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  Okay. Can I ask you something if you could be super honest?

• 54:53Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  What stops you from making one video a day like you were like what what behavior?

• 55:01Speaker 05

  Um mostly just life gets in the way or I get to talking and there's somebody and then fun goes down and now I'm out of daylight.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  So if you if you want to ask yourself how to be consistent, the question is how do you stop the things from occurring that make you inconsistent?

• 55:22Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  So it's like you have the right people surrounding you. Do you have yourself in the right environment? Like those are the things that I think you want to be thinking about right now. Because I know like for myself or for Alex when we were first starting out and like making just trying to get into business. I had to put myself in an environment where it made it easy to achieve my goals, not hard, which also meant surrounding myself with people and a routine that made it easy.

• 55:44Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 55:45Alex Hormozi?

  Do you know how I define commitment?

• 55:48Speaker 05

  How?

• 55:49Alex Hormozi?

  The elimination of alternatives.

• 55:52Alex Hormozi?

  You have to get rid of your other options. And I don't mean like you need to quit your job. I mean, everything else that is not you make if this is what you want and it's like you can only know that. But if this is really what you want, then it means that you have to say no to everything else in order to truly say yes to this. Because every time you say yes to something else, it's saying no to this thing that you want. And almost always the things that we want to say yes to now are short term, long term. We say yes in the moment because it gives us a short term, short term, good thing, but it prevents us from the long term, the long term, great thing.

• 56:26Speaker 05

  Okay, so I was also thinking, should I post on Instagram, Facebook as well?

• 56:35Alex Hormozi?

  I want you to be consistent with YouTube first, man.

• 56:39Speaker 05

  Alright.

• 56:39Alex Hormozi?

  You mean twelve weeks of consistency. You make one long and you make seven shorts, twelve weeks in a row. You do that and you're like, you know what? I got more. The thing is, is right now you have to do that volume so you can become more efficient. Like you have to feel the pain of the inefficiency of being like, man, this is a lot of work. Because when you do that, all of a sudden you'll start getting faster, you'll start getting better and your work output and capacity will go up. And then you'll free up the bandwidth because you got more skills, you got more efficient that you can start looking at, you know what? I'm going to repurpose this on Instagram or repurpose this on TikTok or whatever.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  Okay. It's also like, just like, really thinking about this, in order to build a business to replace your income, like, you want to build that confidence, and confidence is an output, not an input. The input to competence is becoming incredibly consistent with something, so you get the experience, which makes you competent, and then it leads to competence, and I think, like, in general, if you can't stick with a commitment that you make to yourself, then you degrade the trust you have with yourself every day. And so, like, anything you do, it's not going to come out as good as it could be, it's always going to be harder, it's going to take longer if you don't repair that trust of yourself. So I think, like, right now, if you're just consistent with the posting, like, that is going to make you not just better at business and content, but just a better person for yourself, a better, I would say, like, partner to yourself in doing this.

• 58:00Speaker 05

  That, that's kind of funny, because I was watching one of Alex's videos where he was talking about consistency, and how it, how you get better by doing the thing over and over again. So I started doing that, and I've already noticed that trend.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  It's, I think, right now, it's good to steer a little bit, like, I get obsessive over doing things consistently, Alex knows this, but I think you can steer a little bit in the obsessive, uh, direction right now, I think it'd be good for you, and then you can course correct that later.

• 58:31Alex Hormozi?

  And expect the fact, like, expect people who are normal and around you to not understand, expect them to think it's weird, expect it to not look cool, like, everyone goes through a cringe period. Like, you, it's going to be lonely, because you're trying to do something that's very different. And I make that content where I say, like, in order to be exceptional, you have to become the exception. You're going to probably be surrounded by the majority of people in your life who don't want this, aren't interested in it, think it's dumb, think it's stupid, think it's you trying to be famous, you thinking more of yourself than you really are, all of that stuff, and you just have to just put that in, on the shelf, and get back to work. Because, like, either they'll be right, or you will, and you've got a long time to be right.

• 59:12Speaker 05

  That's kind of what I was, alright, thank you.

• 59:14Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, they'll be right for now, and you'll be right for good.

• 59:18Speaker 05

  Yes, sir, so just keep, keep on.

• 59:21Alex Hormozi?

  Keep on, baby, keep on.

• 59:25Speaker 05

  Thank you very much. You guys are awesome.

• 59:27Alex Hormozi?

  You man, I appreciate you, man. How do I go about hiring the right person? That is a very short question, has a very long answer.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  Be the right person.

• 59:35Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, alright, there you go. There's a short, there's your short answer. Wow, wow. Must be nice. Uh, I run an agency for churches. They have all cameras and equipment, but no editors. Basically a clear marker for taking for backend media optimization. How to write market ministries? Honestly, I think they're pretty easy to market to. I think I would start with outreach first. Gets, um, I get my first 10, you know, testimonials, so I can, uh, and then ask them for referrals. Um, and then once I have that, once your capacity gets taxed, you can ask them to start paying you because you can't keep doing it and they're gonna start getting hooked to the fact that they had good media. After they have, uh, good media, you'll convert some of them. Some of them you'll have to drop with the excess capacity. Then you can start doing outreach, using the testimonials from the 10 people that you did it for free for. And in that process, you'll learn how to do the game.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  I feel like in fitness content, it's not impossible to post daily, but I keep running out of ideas to keep up with seven days a week. Here's my favorite way to make content. Um, look at all the content on fitness that you fucking hate and then ask yourself, why do I hate this so much? There's your piece of content. I do this all the time. People will send me like, you should make this piece of content. I'm like, dude, it's disgusting. And I'm like, why am I so disgusted by this piece of content? And I'm like, it's so cringe, why? And then that is a piece of content in itself. So like, look at what you see that why you're like, why is this so bad? And then that becomes the content lead to me. It's like the best hack I've had.

• 1:00:52Alex Hormozi?

  And I'll piggyback on what Lila said. When she's saying that, she's not saying, don't go on people. She's not saying, make reaction videos where you shit on other people. You probably, like, anybody who's following our stuff, like, Lila and I, we do not, like, that's just, we don't operate that way. I think there's enough, I think there's enough hate in the world. I don't think I want to add to that. Um, so I just like, you know, tall poppy, right? You can drag everyone else down, or you can lift yourself up. Um, we were very much on the like, just make better shit. And if you keep making better stuff, um, you will be known. I don't think there's any point in, in, in shitting on others. But it is good for, for inspiration.

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, thinking about it.

• 1:01:28Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:30Alex Hormozi?

  Cool. Um, I have an event company and it has only been established for two months, but our competitors have been here 15 years. How do I get clients to trust me since they're comparing us to our competitors?

• 1:01:44Alex Hormozi?

  You're going to have to, okay, so I'll give you the classic, um, small dog frame, alright? So if you were to enter the gym space, you would have to compete against Gym Launch. And as a reminder, when I entered the gym space, I was the small dog, not the eight hundred pound gorilla.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  Did we were the small ones.

• 1:02:02Alex Hormozi?

  The small, the teeniest of dogs, the itty bitty, itty bitty.

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  Everyone compared us to everybody else. It was like, every call I got on, it was like, well, what about this person?

• 1:02:10Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Every time.

• 1:02:11Alex Hormozi?

  So you have to, you have, cu- comparison only works in the vague, not in the specific. Meaning, they're comparing your company to their company. You need to reframe the comparison as comparing you to employee number eighty-six at that events company. So it's like, listen, they've been here, like, you wanna, you wanna lean into it. You'll be like, listen, they've been here longer. They've got, they've got way more, you know, track record and experience. I was like, but, you're just gonna be a number to them. And if there's a problem, you're gonna go to account rep number six and you're like, and they're not really gonna care. And so it's not, is my company better than their company? The question you have to ask yourself is whether I'm better and more motivated to help you have an amazing event and experience

• 1:02:56Alex Hormozi?

  as a new business owner who will do everything to succeed compared to their hourly or salaried employee who clocks in and clocks out and doesn't care. That's who you need to compare against. And if that's the bet, I'll win ten times out of ten. That's the reframe when you're starting out. Alright. Could you please explain how to decide between a monthly, oh shit, you know, monthly subscription and what was it?

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  I missed it.

• 1:03:23Alex Hormozi?

  And a one-time payment. Yeah, yeah, okay, cool. Um, it's actually just a math thing. So

• 1:03:30Alex Hormozi?

  it's gonna ladder up to something called EPCs, which is earnings per click, alright? And so you get your earnings per click by, say, you have two lines on an Excel sheet. So this is pure math. A hundred clicks to offer one, a hundred clicks to offer two. And so if offer one gets a hundred clicks, and let's say you convert two percent of those clicks, alright, I'll just do the math in front of you.

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  We love when you do math.

• 1:03:55Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, alright, I'll be fast with it. Alright, so we get 100 clicks on both of these. We've got A, which is our subscription, and we've got B, which is our lifetime. Okay, so let's say our conversion rate on this is 2% here. And let's say our conversion rate on our lifetime offer is 3% on the page, whatever. Alright, now our price for our subscription is gonna be, let's say, $10 per month. And let's say that our lifetime offer is $50 one time. Alright, that's it. Now, our churn, alright, our churn here, let's say that our churn on this is 10%. Okay, that means our LTV is going to be $100.

• 1:04:39Alex Hormozi?

  So if we have two clicks, 2%, two clicks, and we have 100 LTV, then we're gonna make $200 in total on 100 clicks, which means our EPC is $2. If we're going through this one, our churn doesn't matter because it's lifetime. Lifetime value's gonna be $50. And so, we got three clicks, which means we got $150. So our EPC here is going to be 150 divided by 100, which is, I don't know, one and a half, I think. So this would be our winner, alright? Now, the big caveat here is that it will take you 10 months to break even on that first offer versus getting five times the cash upfront.

• 1:05:22Alex Hormozi?

  So there's going to be a cash conversion cycle issue that you're going to have to deal with. Now, these numbers actually don't make sense because realistically, you might have higher conversion at a $10 price point than 50. Then again, people don't like monthly recurring compared to a one-time payment. It could be, it could go either way. And so, if you're like, how do I pick which one? You test both, you look at your earnings per click. The one that has the earnings per click that's higher is gonna be the one that will make you the more money over time. And as long as you have the cash flow to sustain that, that's the one you do. If you don't have the cash flow to sustain it, then you have to start re-driving the money model, read the green book. That's what it was all about.

• 1:05:59Alex Hormozi?

  Boom.

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  Snapshot that.

• 1:06:00Alex Hormozi?

  That's right. Uh, Hormozi hotline.

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  Caller number 27.

• 1:06:07Alex Hormozi?

  Next caller, please.

• 1:06:08Speaker 02

  Did they hang up?

• 1:06:10Alex Hormozi?

  They were like, "Too hot." They were like, "It's too hot, getting out of the kitchen."

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  Did you almost hang up?

• 1:06:15Alex Hormozi?

  You almost hang up, or you almost ghosted us, like Patrick Swayze?

• 1:06:19Alex Hormozi?

  Can you hear us?

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  Hello?

• 1:06:20Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, what's up, man? Tell us about the business. What's going on? What's the? What is the problem that you want to solve today?

• 1:06:27Speaker 03

  How's it going, guys? You still alive? You've been killing it.

• 1:06:32Alex Hormozi?

  Alright, tell me, man.

• 1:06:33Speaker 02

  What's your name?

• 1:06:35Speaker 03

  So, uh, so I run a... My name's Dan. I run a center for seniors and the disabled.

• 1:06:41Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 1:06:41Speaker 03

  Day program.

• 1:06:42Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 1:06:43Speaker 03

  And, um, most of our members, um, are basically insurance paid.

• 1:06:49Alex Hormozi?

  Yep.

• 1:06:49Speaker 03

  So...

• 1:06:51Alex Hormozi?

  You pick them up, you daycare them for the day, you drop them off, and you pay... You had day rates, right?

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:06:57Alex Hormozi?

  Yep.

• 1:06:58Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:06:58Alex Hormozi?

  Give them a meal. And the biggest issue that you have is that sometimes people don't want to, uh, come with you. Is that the problem?

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  Basically, biggest issue is, is growth. Um, and in our area, we have a lot of kind of bad actors who are offering kickbacks and payments.

• 1:07:14Alex Hormozi?

  Yep.

• 1:07:15Speaker 03

  Um, to join the service, even though it's completely illegal.

• 1:07:19Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:20Speaker 03

  We are a federally funded program.

• 1:07:23Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24Alex Hormozi?

  Super familiar.

• 1:07:27Alex Hormozi?

  So you're hoping it's growth because you have illegal actors?

• 1:07:31Speaker 03

  That's not the... That's just an easy excuse to, to say, you know?

• 1:07:35Alex Hormozi?

  Mm-hmm. Love that.

• 1:07:36Speaker 03

  But, kind of, the, the difficulty is focusing on... We kind of have three primary people to sell to. It's the actual person that'll join the program.

• 1:07:46Alex Hormozi?

  Yep.

• 1:07:46Speaker 03

  Uh, a caregiver, either a mom or kid.

• 1:07:50Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:51Speaker 03

  Family that needs this.

• 1:07:52Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:53Speaker 03

  Or referral sources like doctors, social workers. So, it's basically these three archetypes of people that, that we need to sell to, um...

• 1:08:02Alex Hormozi?

  Which one do you, uh, succeed the most with?

• 1:08:07Speaker 03

  It's a good question. Um, the referral sources always seem, seem great because they have access to a ton of people. Um, I do in-person lunches with them.

• 1:08:20Speaker 04

  Do the whole song and dance, but to get a referral, it's very difficult. Uh, because once again, people are also paying for referrals, so.

• 1:08:29Alex Hormozi?

  But that's an excuse which we said earlier, right?

• 1:08:33Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 1:08:34Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so let's just, let's just cast it out of your vocabulary for now. You're gonna not do illegal things, right?

• 1:08:41Speaker 04

  No, absolutely not. We've been in business for twenty years, so we're not.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  We too have competitors that do illegal things.

• 1:08:47Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, so like, but like, it's like, it's a, it's a, it's like, it's just something that's taking up room in your mind because you brought it up twice already.

• 1:08:55Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:08:55Alex Hormozi?

  Right, okay. So, you're saying that you have these song and dance conversations and you're saying it's hard for you to convert from them saying, yes, you can go to our facility with a bus and pick up people and knock on doors?

• 1:09:08Speaker 04

  The pickups are from their house. That's when they've already become a member.

• 1:09:12Alex Hormozi?

  Are you doing, are you doing multifamily though?

• 1:09:17Speaker 04

  Uh, no, usually each location is, is a particular person. It's not like, uh, we're not picking up from like one place, like hundreds of people. It's each, each stop is one person.

• 1:09:30Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  And you've owned the business for twenty years?

• 1:09:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, I joined about eight years ago as a partner.

• 1:09:38Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so can you take more customers than you currently have?

• 1:09:44Speaker 04

  Absolutely, we're, we could take about double if not triple.

• 1:09:50Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so you're demand con, you're demand constrained right now?

• 1:09:54Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:09:54Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. Okay, demand constrained right now. So people don't know you exist, so we have to do more advertising in some way. So you said you have these three avatars. Do you know what one of these avatars is worth compared to the others?

• 1:10:07Speaker 04

  Uh, in a number sense, no, but let's say if you advertise to one caregiver, that's one member and potentially a doctor's office is like two hundred potential members.

• 1:10:18Alex Hormozi?

  That sounds like pretty simple math to me, so what stops you from going to the, the physicians?

• 1:10:24Speaker 04

  Nothing, I I go to them, but to get consistent referrals is it surprisingly, we get referrals from people that I've never spoken to. Like we're in the local community, we're very well known.

• 1:10:36Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:37Speaker 04

  But like they know us, they know our name.

• 1:10:39Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:40Speaker 04

  But in terms of actually getting getting a signature and getting a person to join.

• 1:10:45Alex Hormozi?

  Right.

• 1:10:45Speaker 04

  It's a very.

• 1:10:46Alex Hormozi?

  So.

• 1:10:47Speaker 04

  I I don't have a confidence in that.

• 1:10:49Alex Hormozi?

  You're good. In the leads book, which hopefully you've read, right? The chapter that I want you to learn like the back of your head is the affiliates chapter. Cause that's exactly what this is. So these positions are your affiliates. And you're going to need like them just saying, yeah, sure, we'll refer people to you is not going to do anything. Right. Which you've already experienced.

• 1:11:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:11Alex Hormozi?

  So I prefer a launch, then integrate strategy. Which is great. Why don't we send an email to all those people? Or if you want, I can hang out at your office. And after you meet with a a patient, I'll meet with them after you.

• 1:11:27Speaker 04

  Hmm, that's interesting.

• 1:11:32Alex Hormozi?

  Great.

• 1:11:35Speaker 02

  Fan fan.

• 1:11:36Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. So you want to launch, which is like, if you can get them to one to many. Uh, tell their audience, you know, about you. And I say audience, it is obviously their patient base, but like that would be thing one. That's the easy thing. Uh, integration is what you want to have uh with an affiliate. Which is how can you work in their existing flow so they have minimal change in business, but it ends up promoting you? So that's what let me send somebody to your office so that they can take this for you. Right. You could also say like, you're worried about kickbacks, you can rent space if you wanted to and say, hey, uh, I'll pay you a thousand dollars a month to put up a little, a little kiosk here. And that would be different than a kickback because it's not based on performance.

• 1:12:15Speaker 04

  Interesting, interesting. I love it.

• 1:12:19Alex Hormozi?

  Wonderful.

• 1:12:21Speaker 04

  You should, you should go into business coaching.

• 1:12:24Alex Hormozi?

  I wonder if you could do this professionally?