Pay Rent, Get Rich? Ankur Jain Built a $3.1B Startup From That Idea

In this deep-dive conversation with Ankur Jain, founder of a $3.1B startup Bilt, we explore the untold truth behind building a company, solving real-world problems like housing, and how he’s hacking credit systems to help people save money and live better. Links: Follow my Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://siliconvalleygirl.beehiiv.com⁠ https://siliconvalleygirl.beehiiv.com/ Companies & Products: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Marinamogilko.co⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://Marinamogilko.co Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@SiliconValleyGirl⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@SiliconValleyGirl LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/marinamogilko⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.linkedin.com/in/marinamogilko/ X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/siliconvalleymm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://x.com/siliconvalleymm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Marina Mogilko?

  How can Bilt help me stop flying economy?

• 1:03Speaker 03

  The amount of money you spend on rent every single month is astonishing. With Bilt, anybody can sign up, set up their home to pay their rent, and start earning rewards. You can convert those into whatever your favorite airline or hotel programs are. We work with British Airways, and United Airlines, and Alaska Airlines, and Emirates, and Hyatt, and Hilton. I mean, people using their Bilt points to cover their down payments.

• 1:26Marina Mogilko?

  Why do you think no one has done it before?

• 1:32Marina Mogilko?

  Ankur, thank you so much for doing this.

• 1:34Speaker 03

  Thanks for coming by.

• 1:36Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, you're doing something super cool. Okay, tell me. How can Bilt help me stop flying economy? Can you explain the whole concept?

• 1:44Speaker 03

  I mean, look, the amount of money you spend on rent every single month. And historically, you've gotten no rewards back is astonishing. And so five years ago, we set out to say, can paying your rent for the first time now earn you airline miles, hotel points, can it build your credit history and can it help you get closer to homeownership? And so honestly, like flying business class is now as easy as just paying your rent.

• 2:15Marina Mogilko?

  Okay, tell me, so does it apply to everyone? Cause I'm renting from a person, right? Would it work there or is just for corporate?

• 2:22Speaker 03

  No, so you can now with Built, anybody can sign up, set up their home to pay their rent and start earning rewards. At one in four apartment buildings in the US, we now actually run all payments for these properties so that all residents automatically are using Built to pay their rent and earn rewards. But even if you don't live at one of the properties that uses Built exclusively, you can sign up, register your home and start earning.

• 2:49Marina Mogilko?

  Does my owner, the owner of the house, has, does he have to consent?

• 2:52Speaker 03

  So we have, so when we are the payments, that's exactly right. So when we're, for the one in four apartments that use Built today, it's all seamless. Like you move in, you see your charges, you can pay with your check, debit card, credit card, bank ACH, all automatically and you earn rewards.

• 3:10Marina Mogilko?

  Can you tell me, so my rent is 7,800 a month?

• 3:13Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 3:14Marina Mogilko?

  How much can I earn?

• 3:15Speaker 03

  I mean, it depends how you pay, but if, you know, assume one X points per dollar, that's 7,800, it's expensive rent, by the way.

• 3:22Marina Mogilko?

  I know.

• 3:23Speaker 03

  7,800 points.

• 3:26Speaker 03

  7,800 points, you know, a month that you can now use and you can convert those into whatever your favorite airline or hotel programs are.

• 3:33Marina Mogilko?

  All the.

• 3:34Speaker 03

  All the major ones. I mean, we work with British Airways and United Airlines and Alaska Airlines and Emirates and Hyatt and Hilton and Marriott.

• 3:42Marina Mogilko?

  So it's one to one transfer.

• 3:43Speaker 03

  All one to one transfer. Or you can use your points, you know, to pay your next month's rent. Or you can use your points towards a down payment when you're ready to buy a home, which is something we worked with the regulators on years ago to get done. Or even like, by the way, just every day, you can take out your phone, call a Lyft ride and right inside the Lyft app, you can pay with your points and get a free ride around the neighborhood.

• 4:04Marina Mogilko?

  And that's through the app? So if I'm renting from someone, I would log into Built app and it will show me all the local?

• 4:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, you get your neighborhood benefits and it's, you get it through the app, but we also, it also happens seamlessly. Like if you walk around, I mean, any major city in the US, like you've probably seen it in San Francisco, like. You know, we have pharmacy partnerships of 8,000 locations, including all of Walgreens. Right? Maybe it's your local gym. So if you go to your local SoulCycle, you get complimentary rental shoes and water in addition to extra points. Uh, you go to your local Berry's, you get a complimentary smoothie.

• 4:35Marina Mogilko?

  How do points convert to dollars? If it's 8,000 points, how many dollars if it's like Chase or how does it work?

• 4:41Speaker 03

  It depends. I guess it's like Chase or Amex. It depends on the merchant or any other airline, like same with your United Airlines points or whatever. Some tickets it's worth more, some tickets it's worth less, right? So it all really depends on what the merchant is accepting them at at that point. But if you look at these rankings, like the average value that we are kind of estimated at across the board is about 2.2 cents a point. That's a lot of opportunity there.

• 5:06Marina Mogilko?

  And that's how you do it, right?

• 5:07Speaker 03

  It's really that simple.

• 5:08Marina Mogilko?

  Why do you think no one has done it before?

• 5:11Speaker 03

  I mean, trying to drive, this is, it's an interesting, first of all, problem to drive any new adoption in legacy industries. Right? I mean, these, these industries are not known for change.

• 5:21Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  Right? Um, as you know, most people that's still on a checkbook, it's because their properties require you to pay by check.

• 5:28Marina Mogilko?

  I know.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  Right? So getting traditional industries, you think it was always tough. You have a challenge of a network problem. To make this valuable for everybody, you have to have the property managers. You have to have rewards and you have to have merchants.

• 5:43Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 03

  Right? Problem is if you talk to the rewards partners, they go, how many properties you got? You talk to the property managers, they go, what are your rewards? You go to the merchant, they say, well, show me the buildings near you.

• 5:54Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  And you have this exactly, this cold start chicken and egg problem. And so we spent two years literally pitching and pitching and pitching. Like I was going to like literally New York landlords pitching like, hey, we have this idea for a rewards program that will take payments and turn it into rewards for on-time payments with your customers. When everybody looked at me, they're like, great idea. Come back when everybody else is.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  And then honestly, like in any startup, you gotta have the right idea, but you gotta get lucky. And there was this weird moment in time. It was obviously a scary time, right? Like, but COVID happened in March 2020 and the world broke. And all of a sudden, I started getting these calls back from property managers saying, are you still working on that rewards program? Like, we're trying to figure out how to drive leasing and get people back into our apartment buildings. And suddenly airlines were calling back saying, hey, we're not sure if people are gonna fly again. But if they do, it's probably young people, not our typical business travel. And businesses, if you're a local business, everyone's locked up at home. The only way to drive sales was to reach people in their home.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  And so like, in this weird moment in time, we had this like spark where the first couple people in each stakeholder group started coming together. And then the flywheel just.

• 7:17Marina Mogilko?

  But you had those two years when you just heard no, and no, and no.

• 7:20Speaker 03

  We just kept trying and trying and trying and trying. We just kept coming up with like, I mean, I'll tell you, like, when we first tried to get this off the ground, we said, okay, well, airlines aren't playing ball. Maybe there's a different way to create rewards. And so we said, when you pay your rent on time, what if we could reward you by building your credit and by helping you get closer to homeownership? Right? Like, that seems like an obvious.

• 7:42Marina Mogilko?

  How does that work?

• 7:43Speaker 03

  Well, you pay your rent. You came, what year did you move here?

• 7:46Marina Mogilko?

  Two thousand and fifteen.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  So, I don't know if you remember this, like, you probably had to go build your credit history.

• 7:51Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, yeah. No one would give us. The rental.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  Isn't that crazy?

• 7:54Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 03

  They're like, oh, you need credit history to get access to credit, but you can only build your credit history by getting credit.

• 8:01Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah. And so there were only a few apartment buildings that was, that would give us an apartment.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  Right. It's just mind boggling. And so we said, well, if you're paying your rent on time every month, why doesn't that build your credit history? Like, it doesn't make sense.

• 8:15Marina Mogilko?

  But you have to connect with those credit agencies, right?

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Exactly. And they had to accept it. And then to use it for a mortgage, the mortgage lenders and the Fannies and the Freddys have to say that that's an eligible source of data to qualify you. So we thought this was like, what a great idea, paying your rent. And by the way, you can earn credits that you can use to cover a down payment. We then find out that the regulations didn't specifically allow this.

• 8:42Marina Mogilko?

  Of course.

• 8:43Speaker 03

  Which is like, also mind boggling. So we spent, and I thought, well, if I figure this out, this is going to be the key that gets properties to sign up. So we spent 18 months in Washington DC, talking to the housing department, the Fannie Mays, the Freddie Max, the lenders, the credit agencies, saying, guys, paying your rent is the biggest expense for this generation. Why is it not helping them move forward? And it wasn't until October of 2019, but we got the approvals. And for the first time, you know, you can now build your credit by paying your rent on time, use rewards towards a future down payment, and use the mortgage lender could use your rental history to help you qualify.

• 9:27Marina Mogilko?

  Only if you place your build, though.

• 9:28Speaker 03

  Well, we offered this as a service. I mean, it wasn't a built specific thing. It was a regulatory update, right?

• 9:36Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, so now everyone who pays rent.

• 9:38Speaker 03

  Well, no, companies can now provide this service. And so we went out and used that opportunity to start bringing that as part of our benefits.

• 9:48Speaker 03

  And it's funny, because when I first took it back, everyone goes, oh, that's so wonderful, but do I get airline miles? I'm like, I've spent 18 months on this. But now, fast forward to today, you know, we're now the largest reporter of on-time rent payments in the credit bureaus. Millions of people building their credit history by paying their rent every month. We have people buying homes that they now qualify for because of their rental history we built. I mean, people using their build points to cover their down payment.

• 10:14Marina Mogilko?

  Okay, I need to understand your entrepreneurial mindset, because if somebody gives me the problem you just described, I'll be like, I won't be able to solve it. Like, it's been around for tens of years and.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. Okay, so my goal by the end of this interview is to convince Brianna to move to New York. So I, I lived in Silicon Valley for a long time. And honestly, like, growing up, the Silicon Valley dream was one of the most exciting. It's like, everybody, you go there and work on big, hard problems to try to create real impact and create amazing businesses around it.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  Somewhere along the lines, and I, I feel like we lost that why? Like, why do people do things? And I remember it was 2017. I had sold my first startup to IAC. And as part of that acquisition, I had, I stayed on to help run one of the products they owned called Tinder. I was their product head there for two years. And it was an amazing experience, but like, at the end of it, you know, first of all, there's only so much fulfillment you can get optimizing swipe rates.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  And I was thinking about what I wanted to do next. And I was in San Francisco. And it's 2017. This is the era of like, bird scooters raising all this money and this and that. And I, there's a juice press company that it raised like hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah. And I was sitting with this venture capitalist who was pitching me on some idea. He's like, it's like, Alcor, you gotta come look at this business. It's gonna change the world. It's a perfect next opportunity for you. It's like, okay, tell me more. Like, we're thinking about putting a hundred million dollars in it. And it's unbelievable. They figured out how to create non-replicable goods like Prada bags on the blockchain.

• 12:04Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 12:34Speaker 04

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• 13:04Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, like authentication?

• 13:06Speaker 03

  It's some stupid NFT, like, say, whatever. My point was, what happened to solving big problems in the world? And I walked, I remember I walked out of this hotel and it was like, literally out of a, like, a TV show. I walked out on Market Street and in the middle of Market Street, there was a naked homeless person humping one of these bird scooters right after they had raised $200 million. And I'm thinking to myself, you have one of the worst housing crises, one of the worst healthcare crises in the world. You have a mental health issue in your own backyard and you're pitching change the world digital product NFTs?

• 13:41Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, but I think the mindset is the government has to solve it, not the-

• 13:45Speaker 03

  Silicon Valley has never been about the government solving problems. Silicon Valley has always been, we will solve problems. And more recently, it's been like, can we work with the government? But don't forget, Silicon Valley for decades has been the one pioneering the solutions and innovation to the problems, not waiting for government. I mean, that's what made Silicon Valley so special. And so, look, I, you know, that was that, that was kind of the final straw that put the camel's back. It was like, there's just too much echo chamber around these buzzwords, where people stopped asking, what is the problem you're solving? And they started focusing on, what's the hot new buzzword that venture capitalists will fund?

• 14:26Speaker 03

  Because if I want to raise money for my startup, like, it was chatbot, then it was NFT, and then it was crypto. And then it was VR and Metaverse. And now it's like, everything is in AI, everything. And so, like, you know, I think we just lost that original spirit of, like, it's not what, it's why.

• 14:47Marina Mogilko?

  But like, how do you, what is your mindset? Like, yeah, I'm the one to change this. I'm the one to talk to the government, to change the regulations. Where does this come from? Is that how you were brought up?

• 14:59Speaker 03

  I mean, I think that is more of like, you just have to figure something. You start with a simple why and you figure it out as you go. And I think all of us that are, and you're an entrepreneur, you've been through this, like- You sometimes just, you're so committed to wanting to fix it that you don't even realize how absurd some of the things you're trying to do are until after the fact, when somebody else points it out, which is probably a good thing that we're so delusional.

• 15:25Marina Mogilko?

  How many times did you want to give up?

• 15:28Speaker 03

  I don't think about giving up. It's like, that's not, when you wake up every day, it's the most fun.

• 15:32Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, but then confronting people in the industry who are telling you that it's impossible.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  That's literally what everybody's, everybody hates, everybody loves to say no. And I just like, my mindset, and I'm sure you have the same, right? It's like, no just means ask again differently sometimes, right? You just gotta like, they're like not getting, you're not, I'm not doing a good job of explaining the opportunity. If that, or you know, how can I make this a win-win for them and for me? And that's part of it. You have to keep, keep iterating and keep iterating until it is a no brainer.

• 16:05Marina Mogilko?

  You were just like laser focused.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  Giving up on what? Like the big vision and purpose of what you want to do? Like, I don't believe in setting goals that are like hit to hit X number of users or X, you know, million of revenue by this data as your primary north star. Cause it's really like, it's not a very exciting, fulfilling.

• 16:26Marina Mogilko?

  But how do you set goals then?

• 16:27Speaker 03

  What is the problem you're solving? Like I see a user problem I want to solve and we just obsess over that.

• 16:33Marina Mogilko?

  So you never gave yourself like a timeline, like, okay, if, if I can fix it in two years, then probably that's it.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  This is the problem in the valley when you raise venture capital. I'm, I'm so, such a believer, like you can bring in venture capital at a time when your business is already figured out and now you're just, it's just cheap growth capital. But until then, you really only want to either try to finance it with people you know that you trust, or more importantly, commercial partners. Cause commercial partners are aligned in solving the problem. Cause they care more about you solving their business issue than the return on the investment. And then eventually the investment hopefully becomes even more, right? That, that gives you as a founder also the freedom to invest in getting it right. Cause the minute you raise venture money,

• 17:23Speaker 03

  these venture capitalists have a completely misaligned goal than you do.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  Their goals are, how do I drive as fast of growth as possible in as short a period of time as possible to raise another round at a markup? So that I can go tell my LPs that my investment is now worth on paper more. Right? And as a founder, that's not always the best thing. Like, it took us four years to launch Build. Right? We didn't like, we started working in 2018. We didn't launch in market until 2022.

• 17:57Marina Mogilko?

  Have you raised money during that time?

• 17:59Speaker 03

  I mean, I self-funded the first part. I was very lucky to be able to do that. But then we were, you know, in it, we brought in our first commercial partners. So we brought in real estate owners. And we said, hey, once we got that first like click, we said, hey, why don't you invest in the company and own a part of this? And we can build this together. And, you know, that just further cemented our presence in the space.

• 18:26Speaker 03

  But like, I think it's also like, like you're an immigrant, like part of this is you're a, but you gotta, if you come from an immigrant family, like you gotta survive.

• 18:32Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, well, what was special about you are bringing, you think, that made you?

• 18:37Speaker 03

  I'm so curious and I'm gonna have to pick your brain on your immigrant story here. But like, I mean, my parents came here with, you know, typical like American dream story. They came here with nothing. My dad grew up in a dirt poor village in India. My mom was born in India, but grew up in Jerusalem while her father was in the peacekeeping force. Right? And so when they came to the US, like, they didn't have any money. And so they were hustling around for a job, like, working their way day and night. They met in New Jersey, got married in California. They moved to California where they got married. And they were still living in an apartment with another couple because they couldn't afford their own place.

• 19:18Marina Mogilko?

  We had the same story.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 19:19Marina Mogilko?

  We were sharing an apartment with someone.

• 19:21Speaker 03

  But that's like the, and you're just like, you just, but you're so committed to creating a better life for yourself and for your kids and you just do it. And so it's funny, like, they were living in this apartment and my dad was, they just got married and he was thinking about how in the world am I going to afford a honeymoon? I can barely afford to pay rent.

• 19:42Marina Mogilko?

  Well, California is a honeymoon.

• 19:43Speaker 03

  Well, yes.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Like I said, give me until the end of the show, she'll be in New York. But we, we like, so they were, they were living in California. He's trying to afford a honeymoon. He came up with this hilarious idea. He goes, if I send my job resume to 20 companies in different cities, maybe one of them will fly me out for an interview.

• 20:04Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, genius, genius.

• 20:06Speaker 03

  And then I can get free flights. And so we sent it to all these different companies. And this little startup in Seattle called Microsoft goes, called up for interviews. So he goes to my mom and says, hey, hey, honey, why don't we do our honeymoon in Seattle? She's like, why? And the rest is kind of history. He ended up working at Microsoft, starting to like build. They bought their first home, you know, when I was born and we were still like deep, deep, deep.

• 20:33Marina Mogilko?

  Good that they could buy a home.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:35Marina Mogilko?

  Most people can't do it now.

• 20:36Speaker 03

  That was tough. And that was their first big break. And I remember like, you know, we lived a pretty normal life. And then when I was five or six, my dad comes home one day and he's seeing their mom. And I remember this, they started, it was one of the few times they started fighting like this. They were like, he's like, I think I'm going to quit the job, my job, and try to start something. You know, he goes, I was like, we just spent our whole life trying to get to a stable place. And you want to quit?

• 21:05Speaker 03

  And you know, at the end of it, she said, okay, I support you.

• 21:08Marina Mogilko?

  Do you remember that conversation?

• 21:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was not, it was not a pleasant conversation. I remember, I was five or six. It was very.

• 21:13Marina Mogilko?

  Wow.

• 21:14Speaker 03

  And anyways, he went off and he started a new company, which, you know, then became one of the internet's biggest. And I just, every day after school, like, because my mom worked with my dad at the startup too. Right? And so every day after school, my brother and my sister and I, we'd get dropped off from school to the office. And we would just sit at the office till like pretty late night and then we'd go home and like I would, he had a video game system for us at the office. I would do my homework. We'd play games and I'd sit in meetings.

• 21:44Marina Mogilko?

  So you saw your parents working every single day?

• 21:47Speaker 03

  And you just literally watched them build these businesses from the ground up. It's funny, like, my dad and I have recently started doing a lot of, you know, interviews together because it's kind of been a fun. Now that I've had a chance to do my, you know, build my own businesses and whatever and. It's it's people often ask, they're like, well, did you ever feel to him, they said, do you ever feel guilty? You know, figuring out how to balance your work, life and personal life and the his response, I always kind of stuck with me. He goes, you know, you think about it, if you have a kid at home and you think that you're just coming home, you've been successful, you're hanging out on the couch, hanging out with them. You think you're getting quality time and what the kid sees is,

• 22:31Speaker 03

  oh, we live a really comfortable life and it's because my dad sits at home and watches TV and hangs out with me all day. And you wonder why sometimes these kids of these successful parents like don't have that same drive and that's all they grew up thinking you get that lifestyle by sitting at home, hanging out. And there's actually some value in them seeing the hard work and the grit it takes.

• 22:56Marina Mogilko?

  Interesting, but like I wonder, you you didn't have time for extracurriculars then, your parents didn't have time to drive you around.

• 23:03Speaker 03

  I mean, look, it was a startup, so everybody was pitching in, right? And like, like my mom would drive us to like these so after school, if we if we did have like a sport, and this is when I was younger, so it wasn't like the same, you know, high school sports or anything, right? But like, we're all, you know, seven, eight, nine, so you do summer camps and stuff, but like during the school year, you didn't have like an after school, like, you know, school team. So you would do like the occasional, like, you know, seasonal tournaments and then but yeah, those were crazy.

• 23:30Marina Mogilko?

  What would be your advice to new parents on how to?

• 23:33Speaker 03

  How old are your kids now?

• 23:34Marina Mogilko?

  Five and three.

• 23:35Speaker 03

  Okay, so you bring them along with you ever?

• 23:37Marina Mogilko?

  Sometimes, yeah, they went to one billion forward summit to buy with me.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  Amazing.

• 23:42Marina Mogilko?

  They don't like it. They're like, they hate when somebody takes pictures with me. They just start crying, this is my mommy. And they're like, and all the transatlantic flights for them. Well.

• 23:51Speaker 03

  Well, now you can use your built points to fly in business class, so they'll love.

• 23:54Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, I I'm using AMX points.

• 23:59Speaker 03

  I think, look, I was, I used to complain too sometimes. I'd go with my dad to all these meetings and I'd be like, I just want to go hang out with my friends.

• 24:05Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 24:06Speaker 03

  But honestly, it's such a good experience and you got to have both, right? You got to, I think, you know, there's a way to have both like that. That is a priceless for your kids are so fortunate to have parents who are doing so well and get to see the world and expose them to it. I think it's amazing.

• 24:23Marina Mogilko?

  I think that's okay, because I feel very guilty, especially now, like I left them at home, came here for four days. They were crying like crazy.

• 24:29Speaker 03

  Bring them to New York. I mean, they're gonna live here soon anyways, so.

• 24:32Marina Mogilko?

  Why? Okay, that's a rough conversation with the New York. Why do you think so? I feel like, you know, nature in California, Stanford is 15 minutes away from home. So, you know, we go there all the time. It's different.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  My brother and sister are both Stanford and they both live now in New York. So what I'll say.

• 24:51Marina Mogilko?

  They have kids?

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Uh, no, we don't have kids yet.

• 24:54Marina Mogilko?

  I think that's the game changer.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally hear you. I think, look, my belief is, is it's so important to be surrounded by one different types of people, right? And so what I love about New York is you have every day, the best talent in every industry out there. You're sitting at dinner, you're talking to people who are in fashion, who are in media, who are in real estate, who are in technology, who are in finance, who come from like so many different backgrounds. And that, I think that's important because it gives you a much better sense of like, and New York is own bubble too. Don't get me wrong. Like it's still not, you know, it's a bubble,

• 25:39Speaker 03

  but you get such a sense of like how different people think and different needs. And I think the challenge when you're in a place like Silicon Valley is it's so homogeneous these days that you go to dinner and every day, it's like, well, what Y C company did you talk to? Who's your V C? It's like, it's a total distortion of reality. And then even worse, I think when you're a founder, you lose track of who you're solving the problem for. I mean, this is how you end up with bird scooters and juice presses for $700 because you're constantly comparing your ideas to these 20 other startups and you forget that your customer in Dallas has never used any of them. And so you're like, well, that startup does this, so we do this a little differently.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  And their startup does this, we do this a little differently. And meanwhile, the customer in Dallas is still just trying to figure out what the first product is because it hasn't gotten to that market yet. And so that that's so important to stake. And by the same thing is true for Washington DC with politics. It's a homogenous town, right? You have some of that in LA with entertainment, right? And so just like, how can you be in a city that brings different worlds together? Which I feel like you seem like you're into the fashion world. You seem like you're in the tech world. Like, it's gotta be tough. Like, San Francisco is not exactly the best fashion place.

• 26:59Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, I know, I know. I'm always overdressed.

• 27:02Speaker 03

  But like, not in New York.

• 27:03Marina Mogilko?

  Not in New York. Yeah, that's awesome. My last question would be, can you give advice to someone who's starting a company in a space that's highly regulated, hasn't changed in a while? Like a healthcare startup? And they just, they've tried so many things and they're about to give up. Like, how to keep going?

• 27:21Speaker 03

  I mean, first of all, like, startups are hard and painful. So you have to just expect and accept that that's part of the journey. And there's not a single successful, generationally changing company that did not have to go through the most painful experience, right? And I think, you know, like Jensen from Nvidia talks about this a lot. Like, you have to be willing and accept that eating glass is just part of the process. So that's number one. But two is, if you, if you remember on the why, right? Like, there's a hundred different ways to solve the problem. And so if you're focused on the why, you're never going to be hung up on whether the current solution is the right answer or not,

• 28:04Speaker 03

  because it's just one of a hundred different ways you can solve it. And if you have that mindset, then you're much more free to pivot and iterate and adapt. And I think people, it's hard because you sometimes get so hung up on the specific way you're looking to solve something, that if it stops working, like, you keep trying to bang your head against the same wall.

• 28:24Marina Mogilko?

  I love that.

• 28:25Speaker 03

  And you just gotta say, wait a second, like, take a step back. Is the, is the product really what I'm trying to build? Or am I, is there a better way to solve the actual why, the problem? And if you're willing to do that, stepping back, and someone said to me, like, there's a, I think it was Churchill, was it? That was like this great quote, that he goes, Something along the lines of you have to be totally, totally committed and yet completely willing to change. Right?

• 28:51Marina Mogilko?

  Committed to the idea, but willing to change the

• 28:54Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 28:54Marina Mogilko?

  Together. I love it.

• 28:56Speaker 03

  Anyways, thank you for coming by.

• 28:58Marina Mogilko?

  Thank you so much. Very impressive. And you've been to St. Petersburg many times.

• 29:03Speaker 03

  I have. I want to go back.

• 29:04Marina Mogilko?

  Hopefully you can go back soon.

• 29:07Speaker 03

  I would love to.

• 29:08Marina Mogilko?

  That's amazing. Thank you so much.

• 29:09Speaker 03

  Thanks for coming by.

• 29:10Marina Mogilko?

  Very inspiring. Awesome.

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