Armchair Anonymous: Jury Duty

Dax and Monica talk to Armcherries! In today's episode, Armcherries tell us about a crazy jury duty experience. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous is the name of this show.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 0:05Dax Shepard?

  It'll never get easy for me to say.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  It's a hard one, even though you have experience in the anonymous land.

• 0:11Dax Shepard?

  That's right, but I'm supposed to say Alcoholics Anonymous beforehand. So once I'm on one paired word, I'm off. Also, as I told you earlier, when I see the word jury duty written on a piece of paper, I see Judge Judy.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I understand that.

• 0:26Dax Shepard?

  Cause I put the J on the duty.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Oh, Judy. Oh, yeah.

• 0:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I swapped the D and the J.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 0:34Dax Shepard?

  Which would really be jury Judy. But anyways, I see Judge Judy.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:38Dax Shepard?

  Should we have her as a prompt? Tell us a story about watching Judge Judy.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:43Dax Shepard?

  My friend has just become a judge.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 0:47Dax Shepard?

  And he was telling me a little bit about it. And I was like, that sounds really fun. You kind of are Judge Judy. He's like, people are lying to you. Like, you just can't imagine.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:59Dax Shepard?

  And you kind of gotta weed through it and kind of call them out on the lie.

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04Dax Shepard?

  And I'm like, yeah, I think that's what Judge Judy did.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  Well, definitely.

• 1:08Dax Shepard?

  So expertly.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  Can we do a judge prompt? Or they're not probably allowed?

• 1:14Dax Shepard?

  It would just be my friend.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Well, he's probably not allowed.

• 1:17Dax Shepard?

  Doing it for a couple of months.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19Dax Shepard?

  But he already has about 100 stories. So maybe, yeah.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  Fun.

• 1:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, if you want to see some action, kind of like 7-Eleven, if you want to see some action, become a judge. It's super easy.

• 1:30Dax Shepard?

  This is Jury Duty. Tell us a crazy Jury Duty experience. This one's quite safe. And my sweet, sweet, longtime friend, Tim Lovstead, is making an appearance.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Friend of the pod.

• 1:43Dax Shepard?

  Well, now officially, per your new definition. Please enjoy Jury Duty or Judge Judy.

• 1:50Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Quince.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about the fact that the holidays are already here? It's crazy. I feel like I blinked and now we're in gifting season, which I'm not really mad about because I do love giving gifts. And Quince is making it so easy to find something great for everyone on my list, including myself, because let's be honest, self-gifting is a love language.

• 2:12Dax Shepard?

  Quince is seriously the gift that keeps on giving. Their high-quality staples are made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. Full-on luxury quality at prices that won't wreck your holiday budget.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  It's the dream. The cashmere sweater is starting at $60, down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories. You and everyone on your list are staying cozy and looking incredible all season long.

• 2:39Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm gonna tell you this, it just got chilly for the first time this year in California, and I'm so excited, and I'm wearing my Quince cashmere right now.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 2:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I am going to gift this to some of my friends. I hope they're not listening.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Quince is also more than clothing. They've got fine jewelry for your significant other, leather bags for your bestie, hotel-quality bedding to set up your guest rooms, chef-grade cookware. That's an amazing thing they offer here, and it's such a good gift because people don't like buying cookware for themselves, but it's very important. And they also have five-star luggage, another good gift that people don't like buying for themselves.

• 3:14Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about how November is basically survival mode? Between the holidays, the travel, the hosting, the cooking, the everything. Sleep is the one thing keeping me from completely unraveling.

• 3:49Dax Shepard?

  It really is the foundation. And I think people underestimate how much a bad mattress is quietly ruining their day. You wake up stiff, your back's angry, you're already behind before your feet hit the floor.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  That was me before Helix. I took their sleep quiz, which is so fast. It took me like two minutes and they matched me to a mattress that actually fits how I sleep. Not a guess, not a firm or soft coin flip. It's a real match. I have a midnight mattress and I really like it. I was noticing it because I actually had to sleep in one of my other beds.

• 4:17Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Recently.

• 4:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  That doesn't have a Helix mattress on it. And I really could tell a big difference in my sleep.

• 4:23Dax Shepard?

  Temperature was all over the map.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  It was a mess.

• 4:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  I need a new one.

• 4:26Dax Shepard?

  Look, they've got over 20 mattress models. So whether you sleep hot, need extra back support, or you've got a partner who moves around all night, there's one built for you. Plus free shipping and a 365 night happy with Helix guarantee. That's a full year to decide.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Helix has been named the most awarded mattress by Forbes, Wired and more. So it's not just us being enthusiastic, the experts agree.

• 4:47Dax Shepard?

  Right now, Helix is running their Black Friday sale with up to 30% off. Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. Helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 5:25Dax Shepard?

  Hello, is this Ally?

• 5:27Speaker 02

  This is Ally.

• 5:28Dax Shepard?

  You sound really good in my headphones.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you.

• 5:31Dax Shepard?

  Are you feeling that audio, Monica?

• 5:33Speaker 01

  It does sound nice. Are you in the closet?

• 5:35Speaker 02

  I am in the closet, just for you and Monica. I'm in a closet in Duluth, Georgia.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Are you serious?

• 5:41Speaker 02

  I sure am. So every time I hear you talk about Duluth, I'm like, there's my girl.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Wow. Oh, this is so exciting.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  And I also went to UGA.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Oh, my.

• 5:51Dax Shepard?

  And did you major in PR?

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Theater and PR.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  I did photojournalism and public health.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  So weird combo.

• 5:58Dax Shepard?

  Well, you could photograph ill people in the public.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  You never know how the two will come together.

• 6:04Dax Shepard?

  You really can't tell. Ally, did you serve jury duty in Duluth?

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, Gwinnett County.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  I'm already so connected to the story.

• 6:12Dax Shepard?

  Do you want to ask her any geography questions like I do? Maybe the time.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Well, I did ask for her exact address.

• 6:17Dax Shepard?

  And do you want to ask her if she has any of the same favorite restaurants?

• 6:20Speaker 01

  What about in Athens? Have you been to Last Resort?

• 6:23Speaker 02

  How could you go to Athens and not go to Last Resort?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Have you had the cake, the strawberry cake, my favorite cake in the whole world?

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 6:30Dax Shepard?

  Of course, she goes, I'm sitting on one right now.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, Cecilia.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  They have a chicken dish there that is just the best.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Wow, this is a thrill. I love this. I hope I run into you next time I'm home. I'm surprised I haven't.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Well, I gave you my address, so come on over.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  I'll come stalking.

• 6:45Dax Shepard?

  Okay, set the scene for your jury duty experience.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  It involves not only the man on trial, but also a fellow juror.

• 6:53Dax Shepard?

  Perfect.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  It actually happened in December of 2024, so not that long ago. It was my first time ever being summoned for jury duty. So I didn't really know what to expect, and as I got closer, friends and family would be like, oh, yeah, I've done it before. And it was for a small claim or a civil dispute, nothing big. So I didn't really think I would get any kind of juicy case, but I reported for jury duty. And they said, okay, you're at Superior Court, which means we try felonies, criminal cases, and monetary cases over $25,000.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:28Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  And so we get brought into the courtroom and they say, you are being considered for a murder trial.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 7:35Dax Shepard?

  That's the jackpot.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Yes, and I never imagined that I would actually get picked for a murder trial, but here we are. And so it turns out it was for a road rage incident where he shot and killed a man in the middle of the night on his way home from work.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 7:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  And so as we're in jury selection. It gets even more interesting because there's the table with the prosecutors and the table with the defense attorneys asking us the questions and we learn that the man sitting at the defense table is not only the attorney, he is also the defendant. He is the man accused of murder.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  You're not supposed to do that.

• 8:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, never really works out.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  He has decided to be his own attorney for a murder trial where he is up for life in prison.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 8:23Dax Shepard?

  Well, I hate to be rude, but he already showed pretty poor judgment in the road rage incident. It shouldn't be shocking that he's like, I'm definitely representing myself. Now, the attorneys, if I'm to believe movies, right, they go through a whole round of jury selection and they're asking you questions, trying to find out how biased you may or may not be. Do you remember what questions the first time lawyer slash defendant asked?

• 8:44Speaker 02

  It mainly was the prosecutor asking questions, but they did ask every single person, do you think you can be a fair and impartial juror? And someone in my group said, no, I don't think I can. To which this man said, why? And to this man's credit, he looked at him and said, because I think that anyone who is going to represent themselves in a murder trial is stupid and uneducated.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, my. Okay, honesty abound.

• 9:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm glad he said it. Someone had to say it.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  He stared at him for a very long time, wrote some notes in his notebook and said, got it. Thank you. And I was like, oh, my God, I hope this man's okay still.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  He's also saying that to a murderer, that guy's stupid.

• 9:24Dax Shepard?

  Well, I would argue, if I'm the prosecutor, I keep that guy. That guy's definitely voting my way.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they both have to agree.

• 9:33Dax Shepard?

  I know, but the other guy doesn't even know what he's doing. It might slide through.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  Okay, let's see.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  He did not make the cut.

• 9:38Dax Shepard?

  I just imagine the defendant asking you like, juror number nine, do you have a boyfriend?

• 9:45Speaker 01

  You really have a picture of him. That's funny. You've been in road rage situations. I could see it not normal. This is like you. I've been watching so much of you, the serial killer show. So maybe I'm just sympathizing. But I think a kind of normal-ish person could find themselves in this situation.

• 10:02Dax Shepard?

  No one will like this, but this is the truth. I have had the impulse to carry a gun. Gun in my car several different times and I have always decided you can't have a gun in the car because you have had road rage incidents and if like someone pulls one on you and now you have one, we're going to the next level.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, but not everyone has your history of thinking about yourself and your issues and like I have road rage, so I guess I won't. Most people aren't doing that.

• 10:27Dax Shepard?

  Some people don't have a big frontal cortex.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  They just aren't doing the same reflection that you are. In Georgia, I could see someone carrying a gun and a lot of people carrying guns in their car. Whatever, I love them.

• 10:38Dax Shepard?

  I love them.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  I forgot to mention is that actually we learned throughout the course of the trial is he was previously convicted of murder for a separate road rage incident. So he is not new to this.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  But he got off.

• 10:51Dax Shepard?

  Or served his time.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think he did serve some time and then it was like shortened, but he is previously convicted of murder. He was like, I have legal experience. I've done this before.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Been there, done that.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  He was feeling quite confident. Also during jury selection, they ask, are you a caregiver to a kid under six? And if you were selected for this, could you have alternative childcare? No one was like, yep, that's me. So we get picked and the bailiff says, okay, this trial is going to take probably two weeks and you should expect to be here from eight to five every day, to which this woman starts freaking out. She's like, I can't be here at that time. I have kids. I have to get them to and from school. I gotta get them off the school bus. And they were like, ma'am, we asked you about this and you didn't say anything. And she was in my group of questioning. She had given some interesting answers. So I was very surprised to begin with that she had been picked, but she starts freaking out and she's like, I need to talk to the judge. And they're

• 11:47Speaker 02

  like, you can't talk to him. He's left for the day. And she's like, well, I'll just be late. And they're like, ma'am, you cannot be late to jury duty. You will be held in contempt of court. So you need to be here. And so they finally say, okay, if you come in the morning, we'll talk to the judge and let him figure this out. So I guess she comes in the morning. Obviously, the judge is like, tough luck. You've been selected for this. We asked you. You didn't say anything. We're in the room. Beforehand and she's very upset about it. The other jurors are trying to maybe give her suggestions of can you call the school? Like any way to help her and she's just beside herself. And so the trial gets underway. She is seated next to me throughout the duration of this trial.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  It starts right off the bat with some really gruesome images. They're laying out what they think happened in the case. I thought that they would maybe give a warning before they pop up those photos of the crime scene. They do not. They just say, here you go. Here's a dead person. Here's a close up of the bullet hole. Oh. Take it all in. And you're like, it is nine AM. Yeah.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  The jury box is seated right next to the prosecutor's table. And so suddenly this woman, I'll call her Mary. She leans over and tries to pass the prosecutor a note.

• 13:03Dax Shepard?

  Wonderful.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  The prosecutor is like, I can't take this. And she's like, it's not about the case. It's not about the case.

• 13:09Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  And obviously it's causing a commotion. And so the judge is like, what is happening over here? And she's like, I just want to give the prosecutor this note. It has nothing to do with the case. And he's like, you can't give a note to the prosecutor. You can't talk to them. What is it about? And she's like, it's about what we talked about this morning. I want him to advocate on my behalf. And this judge is like, you will be on this jury. You will be here every single day from eight to five. I don't know what to tell you, but the judge makes the final call.

• 13:43Dax Shepard?

  Also, PS lady, it does have to do with the case.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  Yes. She continues to flip out and she kind of just like stares at the floor the rest of the day. All the rest of us are taking really vigorous notes. It's like a very complicated case. As the case progresses, I also start to notice that because the defendant was his own attorney, they had to put in some like rules in the courtroom that probably didn't exist if just a regular attorney was there. Like there's tape on the floor and he couldn't cross it because it would be too close to the jury box.

• 14:12Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  He also couldn't go and hand evidence to the witnesses. So this put a lot of extra work on the prosecutor and he did not have a laptop. And a lot of the evidence was video surveillance footage. And so he would have the prosecutor play these clips. And in court, you have to be like, play it from this timestamp to this timestamp. And this man either did not understand that or just was not prepared. So he would yell across the courtroom, things like, yo prosecutor, roll the tape.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 14:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Oh, wow. Like, kind of at a nightclub.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Like a rap situation.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  I can't roll the tape. Which one would you like me to play and at what time? And he'd be like, I don't know, do it from the beginning. And they were, that's not how this works. We have to take lots of breaks while they figure all this out. And some of the clips, even after a long break, we were like, what were we supposed to watch in this video? Case goes on. Day one, they were doing the gruesome stuff, relaying the facts of the case. Next day, it's much more about cell phone tower surveillance, video footage, explaining why they thought this man was in this place at this time. And so we're probably like halfway through the day, Mary leans over to me suddenly and she goes, um, what happened to the man in the car from yesterday? And I'm kind of confused for a second.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  What?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  And I say, they think that that man over there killed him. And we're here to figure out if he did or did not. And she goes, what?

• 15:38Speaker 01

  She was so hung up on two weeks.

• 15:40Dax Shepard?

  She literally didn't see photos of dead people.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  Did not understand what's happening. She starts crying hysterically, has to get tissues, is sobbing.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Although, okay, I will say, if this is a tactic, that's a brilliant tactic.

• 15:55Dax Shepard?

  To get booted from the jury.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Yes, because she is unfit to sit on this trial. This is like a hack.

• 16:01Dax Shepard?

  What's happening?

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Wait, who's that guy?

• 16:03Dax Shepard?

  Where am I?

• 16:04Speaker 02

  So at this point, I'm concerned because she's not paying attention. She doesn't understand what's happening. I will say, I don't think English was her first language. Okay, she's maybe having trouble understanding what's happening.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  What are we age wise for her?

• 16:19Speaker 02

  She's probably like forty-ish.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  Probably young for Alzheimer's or dementia.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  I think a lot was with the language barrier. And so I'm concerned at this point that, okay, we're going to get through this whole trial. We're going to get to deliberation and she's not going to know what has happened for the past two weeks. During our next break, I actually go talk to the bailiff for a second. And I'm just like, hey, this is what happened. I'm a little concerned that she. She's not understanding what we're doing here. And they're like, we're sorry, but the prosecutors picked her for a reason. So we can't do anything about it. We can't bring in an alternate.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Why? That's the point of them.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Yes. And the alternates are sitting there. You don't know who's an alternate when you're going through. So we all sit and listen. And we didn't know until we got to deliberation, who the two alternates were.

• 17:02Dax Shepard?

  She could have been an alternate, Monica.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Let's hope.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  They're like, you know, if it ends in a mistrial, you could give this feedback to the attorney so they can learn to pick a better juror for next time. But they must have had a reason. So she's here to stay. Try to help her as much as you can. The rest of the jury are also concerned about her because they've also witnessed all of these things.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  I'm now upset with the judge. That person can't be ruling on someone's life.

• 17:29Dax Shepard?

  Although I could see where you could make an argument like, this is the system. It's a jury of your peers. And yeah, these are people that are in the population. That's a real peer in this community.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  Well, that's why they do a selection. It's to weed out this kind of thing.

• 17:46Dax Shepard?

  I'm sure he had a full explanation of why he was certain she would convict.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  I would have loved to have heard their reasoning for it. As they laid out more and more evidence, it was becoming quite clear that this man was guilty. There wasn't really a question about it.

• 17:59Dax Shepard?

  If I was the prosecutor, I would have just had a single question. I would have got him on the witness stand and said, you already did this once before, right? And when he said, yeah, I'd be like, yeah, I mean, come on, guys.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:10Dax Shepard?

  Didn't you already do this once?

• 18:11Speaker 01

  But now it makes even more sense why he didn't have a lawyer. He's like, I'm not paying for that.

• 18:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but even a public defender.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  Towards the end of this, I was like, I feel like if you're up for life in prison, you should be required to have a lawyer. But it's okay, because without this, we wouldn't have gotten so many more great moments. So I appreciate it. Because as the trial went on, his wife came to testify, which was the best. It was like Bravo came to life in front of us because they clearly had a lot of issues. To the point where the judge multiple times had to intervene and say things like, we can't talk about your sex life right now. It's not relevant to the case. You clearly have some other marital issues. Issues, but it's not relevant right now. Please resolve that outside of the courtroom.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  They got very heated, especially because his main defense was hinging on, he thought that his wife, her sorority sisters and the teachers at their kid's school had worked with the police to switch his cellphone out of the locked evidence box at the police station to pin this on him because they wanted his millions and millions of dollars. And his wife was very upset about this. One, because she was like, you're an idiot. And two, at some point in their relationship, a video had been taken of her in a compromising situation that she was now very upset that the police may have seen.

• 19:33Dax Shepard?

  This is juicy.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  I don't want to say that he didn't have millions, but I highly doubt.

• 19:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  We finally get time to deliberate. All of us are very nervous that we're going to be there forever because Mary, the juror, had no idea what's been happening. But we decide because he's up for several counts that we're going to go through it one count at a time and just kind of like pulse check. How are we doing? What do we need to discuss? And when it gets to be Mary's turn, we're like, oh my God, what is she going to say? And she just looks at us and says, mm, I felt his evil spirit. He's guilty.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  All right.

• 20:04Dax Shepard?

  That works for us.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  We're not going to ask questions. If that's how you want to decide this, be my guest. And so, yep, we ended up convicting him of all of the counts.

• 20:14Dax Shepard?

  How long did you deliberate?

• 20:15Speaker 02

  Maybe an hour. There actually ended up being another person that we had to really talk through things with, which was surprising.

• 20:21Dax Shepard?

  What if that person was like, well, why would a millionaire kill somebody?

• 20:25Speaker 01

  It makes no sense.

• 20:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, who wouldn't want to stick around on the outside of prison with millions of dollars?

• 20:31Speaker 02

  To your point, Dax, it is a representation of your peers. So it was very interesting to hear people's reasoning for why they came to the conclusion that they did. So yeah, that was my first and only time as a juror.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Let's go Gwinnett County.

• 20:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, way to deliver.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 20:46Dax Shepard?

  What an exciting trial.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  I was never registered in Gwinnett County because I registered in Athens during college. And then I did get summoned, but by that time I was not living there, so I got out of it.

• 20:58Dax Shepard?

  Good job.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  And then I did serve here in Los Angeles. All my friends, obviously, obviously, and I get it like they're just like, I gotta get out of it. But it is helpful to have real sane people sitting on these juries.

• 21:11Dax Shepard?

  Ally, that was a delicious story. What a delight to meet you.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Thank you. I figured you'd appreciate the Gwinnett connection and I know you guys have to go, but I am gonna give a shout to my friend Tori. She listens to all the Armchair Anonymous with me and she's a medical professional, so we definitely talk about all the poop and the blood and all the craziness.

• 21:28Dax Shepard?

  Is Tori a little bit perverted, like in a good way?

• 21:31Speaker 02

  She works in orthopedic, so probably. She loves to set a bone.

• 21:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's perverse.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Ooh, even that phrase.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 21:39Dax Shepard?

  All right, take care.

• 21:49Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Skims. Okay, I have a confession. I genuinely love matching pajamas. It's the best part of Christmas morning, really. Everyone in the same matching set looking ridiculously cute in front of the tree.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  I love matching pajamas. I'm literally gonna be in coordinating sets with all my friends this holiday season because I got them, spoiler to my friends who are listening, the same Skims pajama set I've been living in. They are so soft and cozy and they look cute. So you can leave the house and go get a late night hot chocolate and be cozy.

• 22:24Dax Shepard?

  It's so great how Skims has sets for everyone too. Women's, men's, kids, even your pets. So nobody in your life has to be left out this year.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  I have a bunch of different pajama sets. One of my favorite is the organic cotton sleep long sleeve set.

• 22:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay, tell me more.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  It is so comfortable, very chic too. The top is a button down, but very, very soft, easy to sleep in. But as I said before, you can multipurpose this and look super cute.

• 22:53Dax Shepard?

  Hot chocolate runs. It's like the pajamas we grew up in, except without the scratchy polyester that made opening presents feel more like a hot yoga class that nobody signed up for.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  All the nostalgia, none of the discomfort. Shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select Armchair Expert in the dropdown menu that follows. If you're looking for the perfect gifts for everyone on your list, the Skims Holiday Shop is now open at skims.com.

• 23:22Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working professionals get the W, the knowledge, the skills, and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, available in select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace. And Walden's faculty aren't just academics. They're practitioners who bring real-world experience into everything they teach.

• 24:05Dax Shepard?

  From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by CHEV. We get support from Superhuman. Look, I love what I do. The conversations, the ideas, the creative stuff. But there's this whole other layer of work that eats my day alive. The inbox that never ends. Docs I need to get through, threads I'm behind on. And by the time I've dealt with all that, the stuff I actually want to focus on gets whatever's left. What I needed was something that just works where I'm already working. Not another tab to open, not another thing to set up.

• 24:49Dax Shepard?

  Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly, is different. It's already right there, inside your email, your docs, your browser. You don't go to it, it's already working alongside you. You're deep in a long thread, highlight it, and it pulls the key points. About to send something important? It flags what doesn't add up before it leaves your hands. It knows your style, your workflows, and it just backs you up without getting in the way. A thought partner that's already up to speed, at your service, not after your job. So, do yourself a favor and try Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly. Find out more at superhuman.com.

• 25:27Speaker 03

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• 26:06Dax Shepard?

  Hello, is this Lauren?

• 26:08Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 26:08Dax Shepard?

  Hi, let me just look at your garments. Love to just check in with what kind of garments are hanging. A lot of stripes, someone loves stripes.

• 26:17Speaker 04

  I do like a stripe.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  I'm with you.

• 26:19Dax Shepard?

  Where are you in the country?

• 26:20Speaker 04

  I am in Columbus, Ohio.

• 26:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wonderful. That's but a mere three hours from my home.

• 26:25Speaker 04

  And equidistant to Kings Island and Cedar Point.

• 26:28Dax Shepard?

  Wow, how does one choose Sophie's Choice? The Gemini or Devil's? What was the great one at Kings Island?

• 26:35Speaker 04

  Well, the Beast was the OG one.

• 26:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that goes down in a spiral and hits its max speed?

• 26:40Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 26:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, what a ride. Okay, you had a jury duty experience. Please tell us all about it.

• 26:46Speaker 04

  We're going back to spring of 2013. I was at the time, living and working in New York City, and I received a jury summons, but not for normal trial jury. It was for grand jury, which I didn't really know anything about. Fortunately, my first day of orientation required us to watch an hour long video featuring Sam Waterston from Water.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 27:09Dax Shepard?

  Wonderful.

• 27:10Speaker 04

  To explain the inner workings of grand jury duty, which essentially meant we were locked into two weeks where we would continue to see case after case, and we would basically vote if the person was going to be indicted and then move on to a trial.

• 27:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like if you lose a grand jury appointment, you are now going to officially stand trial, right?

• 27:30Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I had no idea that this was a thing.

• 27:34Dax Shepard?

  But only for a certain kind of cases.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  People are deciding whether someone gets a trial.

• 27:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, you hear it in those stories where it's like a grand jury indicted so and so, and now they're going to set a trial date. So this was in the Manhattan District Courts. So I was downtown in that Law and Order building. And for the next two weeks, we saw more than 40 cases. So there was everything from burglary to a purse being snatched in Times Square. There was a really juicy prostitution sting in Chinatown that required a translation service to come so we could hear all the juicy details.

• 28:08Dax Shepard?

  This is fun because this is like speed trials, right? They're going to lay out like their five best pieces of evidence, and you determine whether that's sufficient.

• 28:15Speaker 04

  Exactly. Most of these, it was like in and out. It would be the undercover cop that comes in, shares the testimony. We say yea or nay, and we're on to the next one. Of all these cases that I saw, there was one that was truly the wildest case I have ever seen. So it started off in a very weird place, and it just did not get any more normal. The attorney comes up to sort of introduce the facts of the case and says, the defendant in this case, his name is Dan Sandler, but he insists on going by Adam Sandler.

• 28:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, perfect start.

• 28:48Speaker 04

  And we did find out later in the testimony that he did insist on everybody calling him Adam Sandler because he was a fan.

• 28:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Oh, no. Is this a stalking case?

• 28:59Speaker 04

  Oh, buckle up.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 29:00Speaker 04

  So we're here to learn about Dan slash Adam Sandler. And he's not present, by the way, I should say. So the first person to come in and really share her testimony was the primary victim in this case. So she was a middle-aged woman. I thought she looked very teacherly, very wholesome. And we find out that she was a top executive at Girl Scouts of America. Their headquarters are in Manhattan. For the next probably four or five hours, she shares her testimony with us where this person, Dan slash Adam Sandler.

• 29:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, let's call him Adam Sandler.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's be respectful.

• 29:36Speaker 04

  So Adam Sandler had a temp job as like an IT person in the office of Girl Scouts of America. He had gone into her office to fix her computer. They had chatted. She was friendly to him. He kept finding different reasons to pop into her office over the next couple of weeks, started asking her some more romantic questions and she shut that down. Amidst this escalating, the employer found out that he actually had a criminal record and so he was let go. But his criminal record actually was a result of him moonlighting as an off-brand Elmo in Times Square.

• 30:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so he wasn't paying the royalties to be officially representing Elmo.

• 30:17Speaker 04

  It was absolutely an unlicensed Elmo character. And he had gotten in some hot water for harassing children and families.

• 30:28Dax Shepard?

  There we go.

• 30:28Speaker 04

  In Times Square and leveling some boisterous anti-Semitic rants.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 30:34Dax Shepard?

  A racist Elmo.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Adam Sandler?

• 30:37Dax Shepard?

  He probably doesn't know he's Jewish.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, he definitely doesn't.

• 30:40Speaker 04

  So he loses his job and that's actually where things really escalate. He was IT, so he had access to all of her contact information, all of her personnel file. He's calling and texting her, leaving her voicemails hundreds of times a day, showing up at her home, making increasingly wild threats. And that's when she starts saying that she's going to get law enforcement involved. Well, it's this time that he decides he's really going to go bold and he threatens that he is going to put out a salacious story about Girl Scouts of America, that they are facilitating these very un-Girl Scout-like arrangements at their camps.

• 31:21Dax Shepard?

  Sex trafficking.

• 31:22Speaker 04

  Exactly. His request, and I did look at some media reporting on this just to get it right. So the specific request was, I want you, the Girl Scouts of America, to hire me for $150,000 a year. Just give me a job.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:39Speaker 04

  Or a $2 million cash settlement.

• 31:42Dax Shepard?

  So that he doesn't reveal?

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, even though he's the one on trial.

• 31:45Speaker 04

  What was so? Sad was just, we had to listen to every single voicemail. Like, they had to enter in every piece of evidence. Most of the cases we heard were like, in and out 10 minutes. This, we had to sit there for six hours. Oh. Listening to these just horrific voicemails that he left. This poor, sweet woman. I just felt so awful for her. Over the next couple of days, we heard testimony from other colleagues, other people that had been involved in previous incidents that he'd been wrapped up in. But in the end, no surprise, we indicted him. And he did go off to trial. I believe he pleaded out for some lesser charge. But I think he did do about a year in prison.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  And all of our stalker stories, nothing happens to the stalker ever. So I like this.

• 32:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, voicemails gotta help.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  I guess, but they, even with some of them, they know. They have full evidence. They're just like, until he touches you.

• 32:38Dax Shepard?

  Until he kills you.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:39Speaker 04

  It was lucky they got ahead of it.

• 32:41Dax Shepard?

  So you didn't get to see Adam Sandler, actually?

• 32:44Speaker 04

  We didn't get to see him. We just got to hear his very terrifying voice.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  What if he did an Adam Sandler impersonation?

• 32:52Speaker 04

  I always say, a story with Adam Sandler, Elmo, and the Girl Scouts, you would think would be more wholesome than this one.

• 32:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're right. That's supposed to add up to something very life-affirming. I hate to say it, but I would love to have an Elmo in Times Square, say something worthy of getting punched, so that I could punch someone in the Elmo outfit.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  You wanna punch Elmo, but...

• 33:14Dax Shepard?

  I wanna punch a human Elmo, yeah. In defense of righteous causes, of course.

• 33:19Speaker 04

  I like that.

• 33:20Dax Shepard?

  Well, Lauren, it's lovely meeting you.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Thanks for sharing that.

• 33:23Dax Shepard?

  Thanks for sharing that story.

• 33:24Speaker 04

  I so appreciate the opportunity. This was a blast. Thank you so much.

• 33:27Dax Shepard?

  All right, bye-bye.

• 33:28Speaker 04

  Bye.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  One of the majorest moments of my entire life is that me and my roommate, shout out Rachel, we were summoned at the exact same time for jury duty. We were both picked and our trials were in rooms right next to each other.

• 33:47Dax Shepard?

  That is impossible.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Isn't it?

• 33:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, in a city of eight million people, or however many.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  And so we got to go to lunch together.

• 33:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's lovely. They always break at the same time?

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 33:57Speaker 05

  Hi.

• 33:57Dax Shepard?

  Hi Stacy. Oh, cute shirt.

• 34:00Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 34:01Dax Shepard?

  You've augmented your Ted Seeger shirt.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  It's really cute.

• 34:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's a little bit over the shoulder.

• 34:05Speaker 05

  It's a little flash dance.

• 34:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, very flash dance. Not even just a little. Where are you at?

• 34:11Speaker 05

  Specifically, I'm in a nursing room. So I run a childcare center for a corporate client so they can bring their children to the center at their workplace.

• 34:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh, lovely. In what state are you in?

• 34:23Speaker 05

  Pennsylvania.

• 34:24Dax Shepard?

  Pennsylvania. Beautiful place.

• 34:27Speaker 05

  Bethlehem, specifically. Home of the peep.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. The peep, the marshmallow peep.

• 34:33Dax Shepard?

  The little marshmallow. And how many times have you been to that factory?

• 34:36Speaker 05

  They don't open up to tours anymore, but I drive past it almost every week.

• 34:40Dax Shepard?

  But did you grow up there? You must have gone on field trips.

• 34:43Speaker 05

  Yes. We have a giant peep drop at New Year's Eve, too.

• 34:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, fun.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  That's hilarious.

• 34:49Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so where was your jury duty experience?

• 34:52Speaker 05

  Okay, so do you know the song "Allentown" by Billy Joel?

• 34:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 34:59Speaker 05

  So this takes place in Allentown, not far from Bethlehem at all. And it was in 2013, and I got a summons for a homicide trial.

• 35:09Dax Shepard?

  Ooh.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  The kind of heaviness of this all started to settle in when I realized this defendant had just turned 19. So when it happened, he was 18, and so was the victim. And Pennsylvania has the death penalty.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Oh, this is a lie.

• 35:28Speaker 05

  It is. Philosophically, does someone that committed a murder deserve to die? And I'm not a religious person, but I certainly didn't want to be the reason that this young man is put to death.

• 35:41Dax Shepard?

  For sure.

• 35:42Speaker 05

  It's a lot of responsibility. In addition to that whole circumstance, I have really bad panic disorder, especially in places that I think I can't leave. So planes, trains, boats, anywhere I don't have control of the situation, mostly because I have IBS.

• 36:04Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wonderful. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Interesting, yeah.

• 36:06Speaker 05

  In an airplane or I'm going on a trip, I don't eat at all before I get on the airplane. And I don't eat at all while I'm on the airplane because I have a fear. And your stories on armchair do not add anything to my fear and my panic.

• 36:23Dax Shepard?

  I know it can happen anywhere if you learn one thing from this show.

• 36:27Speaker 05

  So I was really careful about eating breakfast and making sure that I didn't have anything in my stomach. Going into the trial each day. We knew it was going to last probably a week minimum. Because it was a homicide trial and it was very heavily publicized. There was press there every day for our small little town. It was a big deal. I don't know, but a couple of days in, I was feeling probably a little bit brave. My anxiety started to just wear down a little bit. And I make these things called sun butter balls. Similar to peanut butter cups, but they're made out of sun butter, which is a sunflower seed spread.

• 37:07Speaker 05

  And I roll the sun butter up with powdered sugar and I make a ball and I dip it in chocolate and then I freeze it. And it's super yummy.

• 37:16Dax Shepard?

  I've had these, they're delish.

• 37:18Speaker 05

  But you can't eat just one, so I probably had five or six of them.

• 37:23Dax Shepard?

  Of course.

• 37:24Speaker 05

  And a cup of coffee or two.

• 37:26Dax Shepard?

  Sure, we were really loading the chamber.

• 37:29Speaker 05

  So I head into trial this day and I'm sitting in the juror box. You have to listen to all the evidence and they had a lot of video testimony. Sitting there, I started to feel that little gurgle.

• 37:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 37:41Speaker 05

  That little twinge in my lower belly. I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, okay, relax. We're gonna break for lunch at some point. You can probably get through this, but it's working its way around. And it's chocolate and sugar and coffee. It's not a good combination.

• 37:59Dax Shepard?

  No, even for someone without IBS, this is problematic.

• 38:03Speaker 05

  My panic settled in and then with my panic, I start to feel like I can't swallow. Like you're swallowing, but there's no saliva going down. And then I feel like I can't get any breath because. Then you're feeling like nothing's going into your lungs. And then my stomach's churning. And now I keep swallowing. And it's sticky. And then I'm like, am I breathing? You know, now I carry around a pulse ox. This little thingy that goes on your finger and that will pull me out of a panic attack right away. Because it tells me you're breathing.

• 38:37Dax Shepard?

  You have plenty of oxygen in your blood.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  That's a great hack.

• 38:41Speaker 05

  But I didn't have it this day. So now everything kind of just starts to buzz around me. Everything is closing in and I don't know what to do. So I just stick my hand up really high and the lawyer stopped talking.

• 38:54Dax Shepard?

  The murder trial stops.

• 38:56Speaker 05

  The whole courtroom just stops. And the judge looks at me and I'm like, I have to go to the bathroom. So he's like, okay, I guess we're calling a recess. Files everybody out of the courtroom. We have to go all the way back to the deliberation room.

• 39:12Dax Shepard?

  This is a nightmare.

• 39:13Speaker 05

  I am now in full blown panic attack. Plus I have to go to the bathroom. So they lead me into this little room and I'm just sitting there. I do what I have to do and it's not pretty. It's just not good. And then I'm like, I don't want to go back out there. I'm totally mortified. So I just sit there.

• 39:34Dax Shepard?

  And you're hoping that the smell will dissipate over time? Is that the goal?

• 39:38Speaker 05

  I don't know what I'm hoping.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  You just want to dissipate.

• 39:40Dax Shepard?

  Just that you'll vanish somehow magically.

• 39:43Speaker 05

  I just know that there's a whole trial that has to take place. I mean, we are deciding this young man's fate.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Oh, diarrhea will come in literally anytime.

• 39:54Dax Shepard?

  It knows no stakes.

• 39:56Speaker 05

  You know, think about the victims' families out there, the defendants' families out there. Every family's out there, the press is out there. So finally I just hear this little like knock at the door. And it's the judge. I mean, this nice little old man judge. And he's like, young lady, are you okay? And I was like, I think I'm okay. He's like, we really need to get moving.

• 40:36Speaker 05

  So I do, I come out. That whole day was kind of a blur. And the trial progresses. It goes on for about a week. We all have to come to some conclusion and a unanimous conclusion on what we're going to decide for this young man. We decide on third degree murder. So no intent because he was having an altercation with his girlfriend's ex-boyfriend. He fired at the car with a gun during altercation. The bullet went through the car, killed this other young man. So we really decided he wasn't going to get the death penalty. The trial ends and they have to escort you to the parking garage

• 41:16Speaker 05

  by a police escort because they don't want you in the mix of the press or to be seen by any families. So it just happened during this jury duty that I was placed on the jury with one of my family's mothers. So one of the children that I take care of, she was on the jury with me. So we get out to the parking garage, the police escort out there. And she's like, oh my God, I forgot my paperwork for work. And I was like, you don't really need it. It's fine. She said, no, I'm not going to get credit for jury duty. We have to head back to the courthouse to get my paperwork. So I'm like all dramatic and I'm like, well, we can't go in there looking like we left because they're going to know we were on the jury.

• 42:00Speaker 05

  So you take down your hair, I'll mess up my hair. We'll change jackets. We'll go incognito. So we have to kind of sneak back into the courthouse to get back to the deliberation room to get her paperwork. We get her paperwork and we decide we're going to leave the back way of the courthouse. We come around the corner and the courthouse is connected to the coroner's office. Back then, it's not anymore. And there's this man smoking a cigarette leaning against the courthouse. And he looks at me, I look at him and he's like, hey, Stacy. And I'm like, oh, hey. And we realized we went to high school together. So we were sitting there, we're chit chatting, we catch up, we go our separate ways.

• 42:45Speaker 05

  And he messages me a couple of days later on Facebook and we end up dating and we end up getting engaged.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, meet cute.

• 42:55Dax Shepard?

  Is he a coroner?

• 42:56Speaker 05

  He was for many years. Yes. We were together for five years. It was lovely. We are no longer together, but I met my current boyfriend through him and we've been together for a couple of years and very, very happy. So in a sense, I always say I've met my current love through him and through the whole homicide trial.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, the story has it all.

• 43:18Dax Shepard?

  Well, it's rare that you get a unauthorized evacuation, jury duty and a meet cube.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Murder.

• 43:25Dax Shepard?

  And a murder and a coroner, all in one story.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  And a disguise.

• 43:30Dax Shepard?

  Espionage.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  We really got it all.

• 43:31Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 43:32Speaker 05

  Was never on another homicide trial again. I think I would do better nowadays.

• 43:36Dax Shepard?

  If you had any curiosity about tracking whether or not that kid was released.

• 43:42Speaker 05

  I looked up the case yesterday because when it was going on, they called it the Danny versus Manny case. Because one of the young adults was named Danny, one was named Manny. I could only find the article from two thousand and thirteen, which said that he was sentenced twenty one to forty years. So I would have to do a little bit more digging to see what happened to him.

• 44:06Dax Shepard?

  I hate that story.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 44:08Dax Shepard?

  Fucking eighteen.

• 44:09Speaker 05

  It's just such a hard decision because if it was something like torture or pedophile, I don't know. I think my decision would be different, but you have to kind of figure out if he really meant to murder somebody or if it was an accident.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  Or if he's a threat to others.

• 44:27Dax Shepard?

  And this is why a jury of your peers is a genius invention because they will met out justice. Sometimes in between the letter of the law, which is appropriate. You know, if it's just by the book and it's prosecutors and. Juries can have a way of finding the best version of justice, I think.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  Well, I will say also juries don't have reputations to uphold.

• 44:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, and you're really supposed to look at the evidence. They just kept saying, don't bring your emotion into it. When I went back to look at the article, it said, we had deliberated so much longer than they expected. And I remember because we could not all agree.

• 45:03Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Well, Stacy, it's just lovely meeting you. Yeah, we appreciate that story.

• 45:08Speaker 05

  My daughter, Anna, really wanted to be here because she is an X-ray tech. And she had a case the other day involving a cucumber that she was so excited to share with you. She ended up not being able to be here, but I said I would make sure. I told.

• 45:25Dax Shepard?

  What a gift.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  We just love hearing that.

• 45:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I love hearing about a cucumber lodged in someone's rectum.

• 45:31Speaker 05

  And then my other two kids, Mia and Jack, and then my boyfriend, Brian. So I said I would give them all a shout.

• 45:36Dax Shepard?

  Shout out to all. Okay. Well, wonderful. So nice meeting you, Stacy.

• 45:40Speaker 05

  Nice to see you.

• 45:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay, take care.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Did you make the connection of jury duty?

• 45:46Dax Shepard?

  D O O D.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  I E.

• 45:48Dax Shepard?

  I E.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, jury duty.

• 45:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tim Lovstad.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  Oh, exciting.

• 45:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Look at this.

• 45:59Speaker 06

  Really good to see you guys.

• 46:01Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so for the listening audience, we're joined now by one of my very first friends in Los Angeles, the esteemed Tim Lovstad. We went through the Groundlings together. We've done every darn thing together, haven't we?

• 46:13Speaker 06

  We've done a lot, some of it we can't talk about.

• 46:15Dax Shepard?

  You know what I probably miss the most is how much you and I drove around in your Tacoma pickup truck in Hollywood and just interacted with people.

• 46:24Speaker 06

  It was like friendly heckling.

• 46:26Dax Shepard?

  Hecklers that are like funny and have a good spirit.

• 46:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, we would always compliment people, but in a very crass way. So like, we would say like, hey, sweet fucking hat.

• 46:36Dax Shepard?

  Right. It's a compliment, but there was swearing, an aggressive compliment.

• 46:39Speaker 06

  Yes, and a lot of shouting because I have a very loud voice, so it kind of would startle them.

• 46:44Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so Tim, I don't even know if I knew you had a jury duty story, but maybe as you'll tell it, I'll remember.

• 46:50Speaker 06

  So as Dax points out, I worked in the grocery industry for a long time.

• 46:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. To bring listeners up to date, I often tell the story of you blowing out your ACL while cash registering.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  By standing.

• 47:01Speaker 06

  I was on light duty for like three months. I was just checking like, hi, how are you today? Beep beep. And I was like, ah.

• 47:11Speaker 06

  Some sort of tendon rupture. I was like.

• 47:13Dax Shepard?

  One of the worst ACL stories I've ever heard. It's like, only thing could be taught by a guy who was taking a nap and fucking woke up because it snapped.

• 47:19Speaker 06

  A hundred percent. But they were great about jury duty. So a lot of us, when you would get jury duty, it was like, oh, I'm gonna take it. Because back then you would sit around for three or four days until you got on a trial and you got your full pay. So for us, it was like, why not go to jury duty? So I'm on jury duty and back then it was a big room full of people. And as you could probably imagine, it's a real mixed bag. On my first day, they called a whole group of people, maybe 40 of us. And we went into a big room and it was a courtroom, but it looked like a bigger holding room. And they handed out this leaflet, almost like a workbook you'd get at school. And each one of us got one. And then a clerk of the court stood up and said, this, you need to fill out now.

• 48:03Speaker 06

  You cannot discuss it with anyone in the room, what you're filling out, what your answers are. You're to return it directly on your way out the door and we'll see you tomorrow at 7 a.m. It was probably like 75 questions. The questions were interesting too, because it would be like, is anyone in law enforcement in your family, which is a question you would expect to get. But then they would be like, have you ever visited Northridge, California? Oh, I was like, yeah, I live right there. Like, that's my mall. Like, what are we talking about? So the questions would be either very broad or super specific. It would be like, have you ever heard of anyone ever hiring someone to kill their spouse?

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 48:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh. Do you think Back in Black is the best ACDC song?

• 48:45Speaker 06

  Is Eddie Van Halen overrated?

• 48:49Speaker 06

  So super specific. So anyway, we come back at 7 a.m. and we can't really talk to each other because we don't know what we're talking about. They called 14 of us and they went into a courtroom. We still don't know what this case is. Maybe it's an hour and a half later, they call another 10 and I'm in that next 10. They had warned us when they gave us this workbook that this case, we could be sequestered for up to three months.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 49:15Dax Shepard?

  Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Even if you love the setup by getting paid from Vons, I mean, that's too much for me. I'm probably thinking of ways I could get myself out of it.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  But also you could be on Robert Durst's case. Like you could be part of like an OJ. Yeah.

• 49:31Dax Shepard?

  So wait, the three months didn't scare you? You were like, absolutely. I want to be here the whole year.

• 49:35Speaker 06

  Okay, I get to stay at a hotel. I get paid my full run.

• 49:39Dax Shepard?

  Tim, how old were you at the time?

• 49:41Speaker 06

  I want to say 25.

• 49:43Dax Shepard?

  Okay, a hotel sounds awesome.

• 49:45Speaker 06

  And also, I'm always about the story. Like, there's going to be a good story out of this.

• 49:49Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 49:49Speaker 06

  Which may or may not be true as we go along. Anyway, they call me into the room and I'm excited to be there. I've got my backpack with like the stuff that I was reading. I have snacks. I might have a cold drink and I walk in very confidently and sit down. I looked and I knew this woman that was on trial because I used to watch the news rapidly. And I knew right away that this was, I can say her name because she's in prison, Mary Ellen Samuels. And her case involved her hiring a guy to kill her husband, which he did. And then she hired a guy to kill the guy that had killed her husband. So it was a double murder.

• 50:32Dax Shepard?

  Wow. Black widow.

• 50:35Speaker 06

  Well, you know, they called her the green widow.

• 50:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Ew, why?

• 50:39Speaker 06

  Because after her husband died, the famous picture when the case went to trial was her bathing in hundred dollar bills in Las Vegas.

• 50:49Dax Shepard?

  Oh, did he have some insurance money?

• 50:52Speaker 06

  Yes, insurance and pension money. And so I knew right away. I'm like, Northridge, that's where it happened. Like I was locked in, but more than anything, I didn't want to look nervous.

• 51:02Dax Shepard?

  You know that previous knowledge of the case is likely to get you booted off the jury, right? Or that's my understanding. So are you going into this going like, I'm going to lie my ass off and just say, I've never heard of her?

• 51:15Speaker 06

  No, because I think this was obviously pre OJ, but they knew that people knew, especially in the LA area. I think some of the questions involved, like, how much do you watch local news?

• 51:26Dax Shepard?

  And you're like, all of it.

• 51:27Speaker 06

  Five, six, seven, 30, I'm all over it. So I'm sitting there. They've got 12 up there and two alternates and they'll go juror number one, you used to work for this cleaning company? Yes, I did. Okay. We'd like to excuse that juror for whatever reason. They're popping people on and off. So they call my number to go up there.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. That's so scary.

• 51:47Speaker 06

  So I go up into the jury box and I shit you not, I'm as comfortable as someone could be. I put my backpack down. I look around. Hey, okay. Yeah. Hi. You would think I was at a barbecue. I was so excited. Oh, you're juror eight, I'm nine. That's fun. And so I sit down and the prosecuting attorney goes, whatever my number was, juror 75, you look very comfortable up there. I said, yeah, yeah, I do. She goes, we'd like to excuse juror.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  Oh, fuck that. Oh, no.

• 52:19Dax Shepard?

  For being too comfortable.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  That's so sad.

• 52:24Speaker 06

  She just doesn't want that guy persuading people on her jury.

• 52:28Dax Shepard?

  You were too boy scouty.

• 52:29Speaker 06

  Too excited and literally picked up my backpack and looked around. I was pissed off. Yeah, like these people, you're going to miss me when I'm gone. So I left and back then you just get thrown back in the pool. You look like a jerk coming back like, yeah, I didn't get on a case. Guys, don't get comfortable.

• 52:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  It's like an odd. They give you notes, you have to go and like think on them, come back.

• 52:52Speaker 06

  Also in my head, I'm thinking, well, that was it. Like that was going to be awesome. This is your last day of jury duty. So you were going to get on the hotel room circuit and you blew it.

• 53:02Dax Shepard?

  Had you packed an overnight bag? Like, were you so certain you might be sleeping at hotel that you brought your swimsuit with you that day?

• 53:10Speaker 06

  Honestly, this is so embarrassing. I was like, do I still have to pay rent at my apartment? Like, is there something I could work out with the judge? So I get on this next jury thing and it's much smaller. We sit down, there's 12 of us, two alternates. The prosecuting attorney, they said, do you have any objections? They may have asked us a couple of questions, but it was quick. It was like, okay, trial starts tomorrow.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 53:33Speaker 06

  So we show up, it's a criminal case and this guy, it doesn't look like he got those clothes from home, his suit. It looks like he might still be incarcerated. You're not supposed to think that, but we could all sort of see. And this guy was staring at all of us like he wanted to kill us.

• 53:49Dax Shepard?

  He was mad dogging the jury.

• 53:51Speaker 06

  Not a great strategy. So we're on the jury and this case involves this guy who was a burglar, who went into houses and van eyes and creeped in people's windows and stole jewelry. And then we go through residents telling their, so, oh, I saw a hand come in and an orange van drove away. And so we're all writing it down.

• 54:09Dax Shepard?

  Side note, don't take an orange van to a crime. It's so memorable.

• 54:14Speaker 06

  Shaggy and Scooby were hanging out the side. So the next day we come in and there's a guy in an orange jumpsuit in the witness stand and he's looking all the women who just happened to be in the front row of the jury box. He's looking them all up and down. The judge says, okay, we're going to start the trial. And he says to this guy in the jail outfit, you promised to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So I hope you got, and he goes, fuck, no.

• 54:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, great.

• 54:41Speaker 06

  And all of us are like, what do we do now? So the judge says, we'd like to dismiss the jury. We come back in and the judge says, you're to ignore what you just saw. Don't let it in your mind. So the clerk comes up and says, do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? And he goes, fuck, no.

• 55:00Dax Shepard?

  Are we allowed to remember that one?

• 55:04Speaker 06

  We leave.

• 55:06Speaker 06

  Meanwhile, every time he says, fuck, no, he walks by the jury box and he's looking at these women. It's crazy. So we come back in now after the second time. The judge says, you're to ignore everything you saw. He's not here, he's not in the room. So we go on with the trial and there's probably 15 counts against this guy on burglary. Three of them, rock solid. Fingerprint, saw the guy, saw his van. Is that your van? Yes, it is, the whole thing. So we go in the jury room. The first three are very easy. But the last 12, it's like they just threw him in there. There was no evidence, there was no nothing. But all the women are like, no, fuck that guy. He's going away for a long time. I don't care if there was no evidence.

• 55:49Speaker 06

  We spent all of a day talking. This isn't what the case is about. It has to be based on the evidence.

• 55:56Dax Shepard?

  Were you taking the lead role in that, be honest, at 25?

• 55:59Speaker 06

  No, there was a really good foreman. It was this guy who was like a construction guy and he had his own construction company. So I think he was used to that sort of teamwork thing. I was just popping in when I could, but not really too much. So we go out, we're ready with our verdict. He's guilty on three counts. They escort the guy out and the lead detective comes over and talks to us and says, what happened on those other counts? At that point, we had developed our story, like there was no evidence. The evidence wasn't good. You guys just threw him in there. And the guy goes, yeah, that's because it was that guy's van. And we basically seized his van illegally. All the evidence was illegal, so we couldn't present it here. But he's very much guilty of those other 12 counts.

• 56:40Speaker 06

  And basically they knew they couldn't present it because that guy in the orange jumpsuit was in prison and felt wronged by the bad evidence. And that was still pending. He basically had come out to show his friend, I'll never testify against you. And it's a nice drive out the van eyes and not being in prison all day.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 57:00Speaker 06

  All the women on the jury, of course, were like, see, we should have just prosecuted him.

• 57:04Dax Shepard?

  Women are always right at the end of the day.

• 57:06Speaker 01

  No, you did the right thing. They did not follow protocol.

• 57:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, but if I had gotten on that first case.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  I know.

• 57:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy. How long did that trial end up going? Did you like follow that at all?

• 57:19Speaker 06

  I did. It was three months and then she did get two life sentences and she's got the death penalty.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  She did.

• 57:27Speaker 06

  She's still alive.

• 57:28Dax Shepard?

  The green widow.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  She's still on, but we don't have it anymore.

• 57:31Dax Shepard?

  People to death row, but no one ever gets killed in California.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  I didn't know we had it anymore.

• 57:34Dax Shepard?

  I don't know if we do anymore, but mostly people get sentenced there and then it doesn't even happen.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 57:39Speaker 06

  Yeah, she's still the green widow.

• 57:41Dax Shepard?

  I'm dying to see that photo of her swimming around in some cash.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Was it televised, that one?

• 57:46Speaker 06

  No, obviously it was before OJ and all those, but it was pretty famous.

• 57:50Dax Shepard?

  Wow. So you just were going as many times as you could because you were getting out of work.

• 57:55Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I was like, okay, so I gotta sit in this room and read three or four days and they paged you and it wasn't too bad.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  It's a good attitude to have.

• 58:02Dax Shepard?

  Well, love said, I love you.

• 58:04Speaker 06

  I love you guys. I do want to say today is Vinnie's graduation day and that's my son, Vinnie. He's an avid listener of just armchair anonymous.

• 58:12Dax Shepard?

  That's how it is. You don't want to fuck with the feelings, just the diarrhea.

• 58:17Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 58:17Dax Shepard?

  All right. So fun to have you as a guest.

• 58:20Speaker 06

  Thank you for all you do. I'll see you at the next roller skating event.

• 58:23Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yes, you will. And thank Mallory for letting us commandeer his workspace.

• 58:27Speaker 06

  I will for sure.

• 58:28Dax Shepard?

  All right. Be well.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  Bye. Well, sit on the, ew, oh.

• 58:33Dax Shepard?

  Oh, oh, that's her.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  That's her. That's her and the money. She seems cool.

• 58:39Dax Shepard?

  She seems happy.

• 58:42Dax Shepard?

  I could see wanting that photo, but I would be, and this is so inconsistent with me putting my shoes on everything, but I wouldn't want all those dollar bills on my skin.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  I don't think you're thinking of that when you're doing what she's doing.

• 58:54Dax Shepard?

  No, you're not worried about germs. It's on her vagina.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  It is, yeah.

• 58:59Dax Shepard?

  I mean, how much would it cost you? What's the price tag the next time you pee to wipe with a dollar bill?

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 59:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  So there's like wet men.

• 59:10Dax Shepard?

  The real number.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  The real number, wife with once.

• 59:15Dax Shepard?

  Or until dry. I don't, they're not very absorbent.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  I do it for $5,000.

• 59:21Dax Shepard?

  I know, really think of it. You grab the dollar bill. Imagine holding this dollar bill.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Do I see stuff on it?

• 59:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's a fucking old ad. You got it from 7-Eleven. It's changed from good buying a pack of cigarettes.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 59:32Dax Shepard?

  Maybe Morse, maybe it came out of the tip jar.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  But then, like, how much does it cost to get a disease?

• 59:38Dax Shepard?

  Yes, that's pretty much what you're.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Really?

• 59:40Dax Shepard?

  Or minimally a UTI.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, so what I would definitely do is immediately start taking cranberry pills and tell my doctor, like, I'm probably gonna need to get on an antibiotic.

• 59:49Dax Shepard?

  And just wiped with a wand.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, just wiped something out of the tip jar. But don't worry, I did get.

• 59:55Dax Shepard?

  5K.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 59:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think that's light. I think you're saying 5K and then if I handed you a dollar bill and sent you on your way, you wouldn't do it.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  But I think actually, because I want to be like, actually, I think it's 50.

• 1:00:08Dax Shepard?

  50 bucks or 50K?

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  Okay, but I don't. I think it's less. I think you'd be surprised.

• 1:00:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I like it. I like this side of you. The scrappy side.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  Okay, how about 10,000?

• 1:00:19Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  So I can go on like a fun shopping spree.

• 1:00:22Dax Shepard?

  Now, if I were in my twenties and I was listening to this, I would be like.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  50 bucks.

• 1:00:26Dax Shepard?

  Guys, I would eat a dollar bill for a hundred bucks.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:00:30Dax Shepard?

  And swallow it.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Well, I'm sorry, you're putting me in this.

• 1:00:32Dax Shepard?

  No, I know. If you asked me, I'm also screwed.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  It's how much would you pay for maybe AIDS?

• 1:00:38Dax Shepard?

  Well, I don't think AIDS can live on a dollar bill, but a UTI for sure. All right.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  All right, love you.

• 1:00:43Dax Shepard?

  Love you.

• 1:00:45Speaker 07

  Do you want to sing a tune or something? We'll do a theme song.

• 1:00:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay, great.

• 1:00:50Speaker 07

  We don't have a theme song for this new show, so here I go, go, go. We're gonna ask some random questions and with the help of our cherries, we'll get some suggestions. On the fly, Ryan Dish. On the fly, Ryan Dish. Enjoy.