#611 - Louis C.K.

Louis C. K. is a stand-up comedian, filmmaker, and author. His first novel “Ingram” is available now for pre-order. Louis C. K. returns to talk with Theo about the English language, his writing process and being human. Louis C. K.: https://www.instagram.com/louisckx/ Pre-order “Ingram” on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Ingram-Novel-Louis-C-K/dp/163774790X Barnes and Noble: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ingram-louis-ck/1147386756?ean=9781637747902 ------------------------------------------------ Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ PrizePicks: Go to https://prizepicks.onelink.me/ivHR/THEO and use code THEO to get $50 in lineups when you play your first $5 lineup! Follow @theovon on PrizePicks: https://prizepicks.onelink.me/Czao/p?short_id=YSN0TJZ1 aka Charlie Sheen: Watch aka Charlie Sheen now, only on Netflix Acorns: Go to http://acorns.com/theo to get your $20 bonus investment today! Liquid I. V.: Go to http://liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first order with code THEO at checkout. Shopify: Go to http://shopify.com/theo to start building your business. Better Help: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp - go to http://betterhelp.com/theo to get 10% off your first month. Valor Recovery: To learn more about Valor Recovery please visit them at https://valorrecoverycoaching.com/ or email them at [email protected] Perplexity AI: Ask anything at https://pplx.ai/theo and download their new web browser Comet at https://comet.perplexity.ai/ ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: [email protected] Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Send mail to: This Past Weekend 1906 Glen Echo Rd PO Box #159359 Nashville, TN 37215 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Trevyn https://www.instagram.com/trevyn.s/ Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Theo Von?

  You ever realize that you spent your entire morning thinking about lunch? It's 9 a.m. and somehow I'm already in negotiations with myself about how I'm gonna spend $20 on a sandwich at noon. And then I eat it, or you eat it, or somebody eats it, and then an hour later you're just standing in the kitchen worrying about what you'll do for dinner. And that's one reason why I've been into Huell. The Black Edition Powder is a complete meal you have instead of food, not a shake on top of food. Their powder starts at less than $3 per meal, has 40 grams of protein, and mixes with water or milk in about 30 seconds. I like Huell's shakes because they're clean and it's quick.

• 0:41Theo Von?

  I just want to make sure I have everything I need to keep going the way I want to keep going in a healthy manner. So with Huell, basically lunch went from a daily logistical problem to a thing I can solve in about 30 seconds. Make healthy eating simple. New customers get an exclusive offer of 15% off online with my code WEEKEND at huell.com/weekend. That's H-U-E-L dot com slash weekend. Thank you to Huell for partnering and supporting our show. Today's guest is one of the greats. There's nobody like him. He's a comedian, he's a filmmaker, and now he's a novelist. This is his new book, Ingram.

• 1:25Theo Von?

  And I've read it, and it's, uh, it's great. It's like this Huck Finn, like an emotional kind of Huck Finn. You'll, you'll love it. I guarantee that. I'm grateful to spend time with him today. He's one of my dear friends, and I think he has a lot to offer the world, so I feel lucky to ride on this planet at the same time as him. Today's guest is Mr. Louis CK.

• 2:07Theo Von?

  Yeah, man, I'm excited to see you guys perform tonight.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  The Ryman's a beautiful place.

• 2:13Theo Von?

  Oh.

• 2:15Theo Von?

  Yeah, do you feel uncomfortable ever saying certain things in such a beautiful venue? And not you particularly, but also definitely you.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I don't know, the Ryman feels like, I mean, Harry Houdini was there.

• 2:28Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  And so was Martin Luther King. And so was Johnny Cash and Elvis. A pretty good balance of perverts and.

• 2:41Theo Von?

  Wizards.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Perverts and wizards.

• 2:44Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  I think so. I feel okay.

• 2:49Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  About talking about bad stuff that you shouldn't talk about.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  There's places like a symphony space, you know, when you do like one of those.

• 2:58Theo Von?

  Ooh.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Where it's like really hallowed and it's like, you know.

• 3:03Theo Von?

  Yes.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Be a guy in a tuxedo playing a cello.

• 3:07Theo Von?

  Yeah, there should be like a, like the maître d' of instruments or whatever that guy's called. What's it? Yeah.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Maître d' of instruments, like a conductor.

• 3:13Theo Von?

  The leader, yeah.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you have those guys and then I'm on there and I'm talking about the hair on the tip of my cock.

• 3:22Theo Von?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  But then again, I sold the tickets. It's just a bunch of seats.

• 3:29Theo Von?

  Yeah. But it is though, you get into something, you're like, oh, this isn't it. Or I had to do a church once, this man invited me and I don't want to say he was a pervert or whatever, or I don't want to say, I don't want to say he was. He seemed like somebody who's willing to touch somebody that was probably young.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  He's willing to touch somebody who's maybe probably young.

• 3:51Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  That's borderline.

• 3:53Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  He's willing.

• 3:56Theo Von?

  Right, he was willing to. I'm not gonna say he was.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Right, if somebody was like, hey, this kid, this kid's dick is bleeding.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Anybody, we all feel kind of weird about applying pressure, he'd be like, I'm willing.

• 4:10Theo Von?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Right?

• 4:12Theo Von?

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that kind of guy, like a, like an EMT for small cocks, you know, like that.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Shot his hand up a little too quick.

• 4:22Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  I mean, I just would. Yeah.

• 4:26Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:27Theo Von?

  Like had a couple of small tourniquets in his pocket, you know?

• 4:30Speaker 01

  He's equipped.

• 4:33Theo Von?

  But yeah, so that guy invited me to do a show and it was in like Laughlin, Nevada or something out in the middle of the desert and it was at a church and he was a church man and he or he was a like a pastor or a leader of a church. We get there and I was like, oh man, this guy had only seen one of my bits and it was a just more of a safe bet. It just had nothing edgy in it.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:53Theo Von?

  And I got into this stuff and you could see a man get up with his family and just, I mean, he was leaving the show. He was leaving the church though, too. You could see.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 5:02Theo Von?

  I felt horrible. And it's, I kept looking at him in the back and he's trying to be supportive and I was like, don't support me. I was like, this shouldn't be happening, you know?

• 5:12Speaker 01

  You felt that way?

• 5:13Theo Von?

  I did.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  You shouldn't have been doing it?

• 5:15Theo Von?

  Yeah, but I couldn't just, all I had was my material. I could do some riffing, but it's also in a church. There was the lights were all on, but yeah, some venues, it's just a little.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's funny. I used to be more defiant. I used to feel more like, you know, hey, man, this is what I, you know?

• 5:29Theo Von?

  Right.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Fuck you. But I feel less that way. I'm not gonna change what I do.

• 5:34Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  But I don't wanna upset anybody. I'm not trying to.

• 5:38Theo Von?

  Yeah. But I'm not as defiant, I'm not as like, we'll show them.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  I was talking about something on stage recently and somebody in the balcony yelled, ah, Greg, got angry. And I said, what's wrong? And this person, I don't remember what the bit was, but they were like, that's not cool, man. And I said, are you offended by what I said? He said, yeah. And I just said, really sorry. Like, I had never done that before. I was just like, I'm really sorry.

• 6:03Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Anyway, I'm gonna keep doing it.

• 6:06Theo Von?

  Yeah. Yeah, we gotta keep going.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta keep going.

• 6:09Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Um, I did a, a club in Florida down in, um, um, Key West.

• 6:16Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  And it's a good, I love the guy who runs it, this guy, Tom, and it's a fun club, but a lot of the crowd is like people that are on a cruise and they jump off and they had no context for what I, I was like getting pure silence on some stuff.

• 6:31Theo Von?

  Oh.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  And at some point I just said, listen, um, I uh, I just want you to know, I'm not trying to upset you.

• 6:41Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  I'm just want you to know that this is all, I don't have another way to go.

• 6:45Theo Von?

  Right.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  This isn't me antagonizing you. This is just you and I are very different.

• 6:49Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  And if you could try to open your heart a little bit, I can't, I'm opening up to you, but I can't like invent jokes for you right now.

• 6:56Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  And I, and they are like, okay, okay. And I could see these sort of old people in pink, pink and coral blue shirts. Going like, all right, we'll try a little harder.

• 7:05Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Cause they, first they just thought, well, he's just, he's, you know, sometimes if somebody's upsetting you, you think they want to.

• 7:10Theo Von?

  Right.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  But sometimes it's just that they're just being what they are. And if you can know that, I think it helps.

• 7:16Theo Von?

  Oh, even as you're saying that, it makes me think like, even when I was a kid, if my mom would have every now and then, like I know bring that back things to childhood all the time.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:23Theo Von?

  But it's like, or if a parent would every now and be like, hey, I know this is not good.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  I know this sucks for you.

• 7:28Theo Von?

  Right. And I know this, everything we're doing here is really, it's a Barnum and Bailey.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:34Theo Von?

  It's a real shit circus.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  I've tried to say that to my.

• 7:38Theo Von?

  But that's all we got.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Right. And like, I, I used to think that about my kids when I would say no about something.

• 7:44Theo Von?

  Uh huh.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Cause when I was a kid, no was mean. It, it was always like, no. And like, no, because I said so, stuff like that. And no, cause you don't deserve it or whatever. And I don't think no has to be a bad thing. I think every, the life is full of yes and no, right? And the first few years of a kid's life were just yes, you're just trying to keep them alive and just let them know they're loved.

• 8:08Theo Von?

  Mm hmm.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  And then you have to start going, not that though. And it's tragic for them. Like what the person I love is saying no, why would they do that? And because you feel guilty about saying no to your kid, you, you put a little spice on it. But you can be nice about it as long as you're firm. You know what I mean? Like you don't roll over, cause you just go, no, I'm sorry, honey. Yeah, that's, I know how much that sucks.

• 8:32Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  But it's not changing.

• 8:34Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  And uh, think of something else, but it ain't, that's a wall, that's a brick wall.

• 8:38Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  And you'll be okay. I'll just let them know you'll be okay.

• 8:42Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  And then they'll know that no is just a turn. It's not a wall. It's just a, it's just a, it's a curve. That's all. Go look something for something else.

• 8:51Theo Von?

  Yeah. And that's a great way to think about it too. Cause then it keeps you in a space of like, well, what else could I, what's possible? How else would I figure this out? You know, it almost puts a little challenge into the child.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  That's it. And also for, when my kids would complain about, and, and if they just harangued and said, come on, I just, no, I'm not even going to discuss it.

• 9:10Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  But if they're like, wait, and they reason and they try to lawyer through it, I go, I'm here, I'm listening.

• 9:17Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  You know, that'll listen to. That's a good skill for them to build, you know?

• 9:22Theo Von?

  Yeah. I remember at night, if we got, if we got in trouble, like if we got suspended from watching television or something by mom, we could go down and do a performance, right?

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:31Theo Von?

  And we didn't have a lot of like, we had a little bit of face paint. I don't want to say it was like, it would seem racial, but some of the shit probably, we didn't have a lot of colors.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Okay. What colors did you have?

• 9:43Theo Von?

  We just didn't have.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Black, red and yellow?

• 9:46Theo Von?

  We had some.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:48Theo Von?

  Well, no, we just didn't have a lot of colors, right? And we didn't, and we loved a lot of black stuff. So I think we probably did in the heat of the night or something. We would do scenes from that, you know?

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:57Theo Von?

  And.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  They call me Mr. Tibbs.

• 10:00Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Why not?

• 10:03Theo Von?

  In the heat of the night. God, dude, we loved that show. I love Carol O'Connor. He was so, God, he was so multifaceted.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Did you ever see the movie? The movie's amazing.

• 10:12Theo Von?

  In the heat of the night? Yeah, I have. With Sidney Poitier?

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and Rod Steiger.

• 10:16Theo Von?

  Oh, is that the other guy in it? Hmm. A raisin in the sun, man.

• 10:23Theo Von?

  Sidney Poitier was something great, huh?

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was. And, and what do you call it? Also, um, um, to serve with love.

• 10:31Theo Von?

  I haven't seen that.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. He plays a British teacher, teaching, he's a, um, a well-educated black teacher.

• 10:38Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Teaching Cockney white kids.

• 10:41Theo Von?

  Hmm.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  How to be gentlemen and ladies.

• 10:44Theo Von?

  Oh, that sounds good.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  It's beautiful.

• 10:47Theo Von?

  Oh, I've seen scenes from this though, just online and stuff.

• 10:53Theo Von?

  But yes, but if we went down and performed and we would also had, I think we had a kite that we would kind of do this Japanese dragon kind of thing. So we had a couple of like kind of motifs that we would use to win back the ability to do something new. But that was a way of us lob, like at least show up and show me something, right?

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:11Theo Von?

  Don't just sit there and.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Put on a Kabuki and like have like an allegorical play.

• 11:16Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  That says, let us have the, you know, let us eat the Captain Crunch for dinner.

• 11:22Theo Von?

  Yes, let us have this chance. That's all we wanted.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:25Theo Von?

  And sometimes it would be.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Sometimes you had to sing Mammy to get it.

• 11:30Theo Von?

  Swing low.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:32Theo Von?

  It got, I mean, there were times, yeah.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  I wanted to emulate black people when I was a kid. When I was a kid, it was, um, all my heroes were black. Muhammad, Muhammad Ali was like the greatest thing in the world when I was a kid and. Bruce Lee and like, I mean, everybody who I admired. Bruce Lee was black, right?

• 11:50Theo Von?

  Bruce Lee, no, oh, Bruce Lee's they was the Asian.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:55Theo Von?

  But dude, black guys were like, yeah, that's a real.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:59Theo Von?

  That's a real one.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Reggie Jackson. I mean, I grew up a different generation than you.

• 12:03Theo Von?

  Yeah, yeah, no, but those are still some real heroes.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:06Theo Von?

  Yeah, there was something about being black that just seemed.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  I went to a, um.

• 12:12Theo Von?

  Fun and risque at the same time.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't, uh, well, um, at my school, I was a, uh, went to public school in Newton, Mass. And, uh, we had a, there was a program called Metco where kids from inner city Boston were, were brought in buses to our schools.

• 12:30Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  And, uh, so there was a contingency of not, the kids that were not only black, but living in, in a very different place. And, um. So they would sit at, there'd be tables at the cafeteria of just black kids and I would just go sit with them. I just wanted, I wanted to be part of that.

• 12:46Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  And I would sit with them and they'd kind of go, all right.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Hey fellas. And I just, I, I felt like, I just re- was reaching for that, you know?

• 12:59Theo Von?

  Hmm. Well, you think it was because, because I would, I definitely noticed that too. I like being around black kids. It was fun. It was interesting. You didn't know what was gonna happen.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:10Theo Von?

  There was an element of like, kinda crossing the tracks a bit.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, because where I grew up in Newton, I mean, I lived in Mexico when I was younger, but I mostly grew up in Newton. And it was a suburb that was already split because there was a working class side and a, and a rich people's side. And um, I grew up right on the, literally on the tracks, like the, the, the train tracks, the, the Mass Turnpike was a block behind my house, like one block. I heard, I, I fell asleep to the sound of, of traffic. And so we were right on the line, my family. We had a little house, a little half a house that we rented. Um, but uh, it was, that was all white though. Um, everybody was white in Newton. Later I drove a cab in Newton in my hometown and found out that there was a,

• 13:55Speaker 01

  a, a little enclave of black people that lived in one little, like one street in Newton. But uh, but in Boston itself too, the main city was very segregated. So there, there was this one kid in our, um, one Medco kid, his name was David and uh, he, um, his family's house burnt down in Boston. And my friend's dad had half a house that he rented out. And he donated it to their family so they could have a place to live while they were rebuilding.

• 14:27Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  So this black family moved into our neighborhood. And uh, the [BLEEP] and they were nice people. I, I didn't think of it, I knew David. He was okay kid. He wasn't a, he was kind of a dick, but he let him, let anybody be a dick. But there was this one.

• 14:42Theo Von?

  But he was a black dick.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  He was a black dick and he had one. But.

• 14:46Theo Von?

  But no, no, but yeah.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  At the time I wasn't aware of that, but there was a kid in our, in our school who was a really vicious bully. And he had a gang. And one day, uh, David went to the park, Cabot Park. And, and uh, and Michael [BLEEP] was the bully. I'm using real names. I don't know, maybe you should believe them.

• 15:07Theo Von?

  If he did it, he did it.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  But Michael, uh.

• 15:09Theo Von?

  Michael [BLEEP].

• 15:11Speaker 01

  Took, cut his gang and they took David and they said, uh, we're going to show you this swing is your swing. And it was paint, they painted a swing black and they painted a bench black and they painted all, all one of everything in the park. And they said, that's your, that's the [BLEEP] swing, that's the [BLEEP] bench. And I heard that story and I, I found it hard to believe, but I went to the park and those, there was a black bench. And it was black as long as the rain, you know, until the rain washed off the paint and the park painted it green over. That's what it was like. And this was like a, kind of like a liberal suburb, you know?

• 15:48Theo Von?

  And do you think a lot of that was actual, like true racism? Or do you think some of it was just like, I know you're not playing as a racist, but I think sometimes people, if, if that's what's going on, people will continue it, you know?

• 16:01Speaker 01

  I, yeah, I, I think so, but I think, uh, uh, if you actually go get a bucket of paint, if you actually go put your money down as a kid and you paint a bench black, I think that's pretty racist. I think it's pretty hardcore racist.

• 16:15Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was nasty. I mean, he was, he was mean to everybody. He found a way to, to hurt, he was a sadistic person. Um, yeah, scared the shit out of me. Uh, it never hurt me because I was a little bigger.

• 16:28Theo Von?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  But I never fought really, so. But, um, yeah, that was, that was weird. It was racism in Newton. It was weird because it was like-

• 16:37Theo Von?

  Yeah, I've been to Boston, there's still-

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Well, and also because there was that division, like down where you were, there, folks were a little more mixed in, weren't they? A little bit? Did you live amongst-

• 16:47Theo Von?

  Yeah, I mean, it's just funny in the South, people will be like, it's so racist, it's so racist. A lot of times people have this view. But also you have a relationship. There's like, a lot of connectivity, I feel like. So, I don't know. You know, I remember one time me and my buddy Devon, we were, went fishing and there was these kids on these railroad tracks up above us, up above the river. And they started throwing rocks at us and calling us the N-word and stuff.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  White kids?

• 17:15Theo Von?

  Yep.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  Calling you guys that?

• 17:16Theo Von?

  Yeah. And-

• 17:20Theo Von?

  And I wasn't black, I was, you know.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  At the time?

• 17:23Theo Von?

  Yeah, I wanted to be part of it.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Wasn't one of the black periods of your life?

• 17:27Theo Von?

  Yeah, I was like, but I still was like, you don't know us mother, you know, I was like yelling shit back. And even Devon's looking at me like, dude, what the fuck?

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:36Theo Von?

  They'll try to steal my thunder here. So it was just like, I don't know. All that stuff was just like, I don't know, it was.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  I do think kids throw everything around. Kids just say stuff.

• 17:46Theo Von?

  Oh, for sure.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Cause they want to try it on.

• 17:48Theo Von?

  Yeah. Like, I don't trust people that will say, like, I think if somebody won't say, some people won't, won't say, right? Or they won't say the F word about gay folks. And you know what it is?

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Huh? Gay Fs.

• 18:06Theo Von?

  Gay Fs, yeah.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  Not gay folks. You mean the folks is the F word, right?

• 18:11Theo Von?

  No.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:13Theo Von?

  Some people won't say, and I'll say it really fast, cause some people don't like hearing it.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  That got right by the people that don't. They weren't, they were doing something else.

• 18:24Theo Von?

  Well, some, yeah, it's like you could have looked away, you could have been driving and looking out of the street.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:27Theo Von?

  Before you know it, it's gone. But some people will say the N word, but won't say that word. That's what I don't get. It's like.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:35Theo Von?

  How do you even get?

• 18:36Speaker 01

  That you won't say the N word, but you will say the F word, or that you won't say, which way?

• 18:41Theo Von?

  Some people won't say, won't say the F word.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:45Theo Von?

  But they'll say the N word.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Really? Who's that? What group is that?

• 18:49Theo Von?

  That to me is race, that's racist. It's like.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. If you have a general sensitivity about like, well, I just don't want, some of these words have gotten too hard to use.

• 18:57Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  I used to say all of them.

• 18:59Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  But I don't now because it just has a different effect.

• 19:04Theo Von?

  Yeah. I'm like you're saying, like you're saying earlier, we, we get older, some things just kind of it lands different.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  It lands different depending on how things are. Language is a living thing.

• 19:13Theo Von?

  Right.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  And the way people communicate is always changing and, and, and the sounds you make are affected by the other sounds in the air. So you don't live in a vacuum and it doesn't mean that's not a moral thing to me. That's just do you want to be understood?

• 19:30Theo Von?

  Right.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Do you want to, uh, what do you want to convey? What feeling are you trying to put out there? And sometimes the N word can be said with a lot of love. It can also be said with humor or just, um, experimental confusion. But at a time where, uh, there's like certain things that got tightened up. It doesn't have that effect anymore. So.

• 19:51Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Uh, so make an adjustment.

• 19:54Theo Von?

  It's interesting. I think cause first and also it's by generation. It's like some gen, it's like some people may accept a 15 year old half Mexican kid saying it. But some people might, might not accept a 50 year old half Mexican kid.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right. And, uh, I mean, the word colored was, uh, no way when I was growing up. Colored was like the, that's, but now they say it. But now as people have colored, like things move around. Be, when you start censoring, you, you freeze yourself and you're no longer hearing what's going on out there. You know what I mean?

• 20:29Theo Von?

  Right. Yeah. What are you doing?

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Have the flow.

• 20:31Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  And, and you, you gotta just trust people to go like, okay, let's put N word on the, on the shelf for a while.

• 20:38Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  And cunt is back. Colored is respectable now. It, it, it moves around. It's, it's fascinating language. It's like the most amazing thing about what we do, you know?

• 20:49Theo Von?

  Yeah. Yeah. And you use it so well, man. You use it so well. And it is interesting. Like I will try to find a word. It's like sometimes I'll say something and I'll be like, no, that's not it. I need the exact word.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:02Theo Von?

  And if I can get the exact word, it can help me unlock a feeling.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 21:07Theo Von?

  Can help me be extremely specific about what I'm trying to say.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Where do you look for your words?

• 21:13Theo Von?

  I look like in my feelings a lot of times, you know, I, yeah, I look at my feelings like.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  You got a dictionary in your heart.

• 21:19Theo Von?

  Yeah. It's like, that's not the word. And sometimes you get it and sometimes you don't get it.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  I bought a big dictionary recently because I write, um, I like to have a dictionary with me when I'm writing fiction.

• 21:31Theo Von?

  Mm hmm.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  And, uh, um, I, I wrote it and I wrote this book and then I started writing this other one. And I write it with a typewriter. It's very old fashioned.

• 21:40Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  And so I, I, um, I wanted to get a dictionary that had a lot of, a lot of depth to it. Because when I'm looking for a word, I go, I like looking at the reference. And some dictionaries have like usage of the word, they give you like, so there is a guy named Samuel Johnson, back in England in the early seventeen hundreds.

• 22:01Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  And he was the first person to write a dictionary for English. He just wrote one. He was like, somebody should have it. There was none. There was like lists of words and catalogs. But he came up with the idea, I'm gonna sit down and write a dictionary of the whole English language.

• 22:16Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  With every word describing the word and, and giving examples in poetry and, and literature. And he just sat down and he did it. And it's like this, it's huge. I have two, it's two volumes and it sits on my desk on each side of me. And I flip through these big pages and I read what Samuel Johnson himself, how he described each word.

• 22:38Theo Von?

  Was it hard to find those?

• 22:40Speaker 01

  I, I got one on eBay. I, the thing that's crazy is I wanna get a real, like an original, cuz you can get first editions of that, yeah, like the, your guys pulling up there. That's the first, that's the birth of the English language. You can actually touch it with your hands. You can actually own that. The first person to ever fucking do this.

• 22:57Theo Von?

  So that's the first dictionary ever?

• 22:59Speaker 01

  First dictionary, but, and I'm just talking out of my ass, I'm not educated, but this is what I understand to be true.

• 23:04Theo Von?

  Okay. A dictionary of the English language, sometimes published as Johnson's dictionary, was published on April seventeen seventy-five. It is among the most influential dictionaries in the history of the English language. Um, there was dissatisfaction with the dictionaries of the period. Yeah.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was nothing around.

• 23:21Theo Von?

  It's horrible.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  And I learned all this stuff about language from it, like the letter I.

• 23:25Theo Von?

  Hmm.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  And the letter J.

• 23:28Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Were, back then, were the same letter. So, I, and like when you look at, uh, in his dictionary, the letter I is defined. And it says I when it's used as a consonant, it sounds like E or I. But when it's used as, I mean, as a vowel, but when it's used as a consonant, it sounds like J. And that originally. J was just an I with a little tail. Just so you know that that's hard I, that's J.

• 23:55Theo Von?

  Like this eyes, yeah.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so when you look in the I section of his dictionary, it alternates I and J, like it alternates. Once some words start with I, some start with J, but they're all in the same section.

• 24:08Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  And it's the same with U and V. U and V were just one word, but they had these two different, you know?

• 24:16Theo Von?

  Oh, it makes total sense.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but when you get to know this stuff about language, you, yeah, it gives you more. Uh, you can actually have more feelings if you have more words. But I like your, your retro approach, which is you're looking for the words in your feelings.

• 24:30Theo Von?

  It's good.

• 24:33Theo Von?

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• 25:16Theo Von?

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• 25:45Speaker 02

  I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

• 25:51Theo Von?

  Now Charlie's sober. He's gonna tell you the truth.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Is there gonna be anything off limits? No.

• 26:00Theo Von?

  Dang! And there he is, that's Charlie Sheen right there. Sober now for seven years he's been. And he's telling his life story from his childhood to stardom. He discusses all of his roles, how he turned down Karate Kid and how Platoon and Wall Street changed his life. He talks about his friendship with Nicolas Cage. Sheen speaks about subjects and events he's never discussed publicly before. The most outrageous moments of Sheen's life are revisited with raw emotion and exceptional warmth, painting a portrait of a flawed man whose penchant for self-destruction is ultimately

• 26:40Theo Von?

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• 27:25Theo Von?

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• 27:59Speaker 01

  This is my, this is a hard, cause that's a

• 28:01Theo Von?

  Oh, you brought me Ingram?

• 28:02Speaker 01

  I brought you a hard cover of Ingram.

• 28:04Theo Von?

  Let's go!

• 28:06Speaker 01

  There's an inscription, but just don't read it out loud.

• 28:08Theo Von?

  Okay, I'm gonna say, okay.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:11Theo Von?

  I'm gonna say that. Dude, thank you so much, man. Yeah, I read this. You sent me, and I still have it inside. I have, you sent me like, it was in this green kind of folder. That was really cool, and it reminded me of like, kind of like, um, something that meant something, like, 25 years ago, 20 years ago, you'd get a script and it would be like,

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:33Theo Von?

  And, and it would be in something, you know, it'd be like in this sort of like green folder.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:40Theo Von?

  It's professional.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  Binder, yeah.

• 28:41Theo Von?

  Yes, it was a binder.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:43Theo Von?

  And you gave it to me like that, and you let me read this whole book, dude.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Well, you read a really early version.

• 28:48Theo Von?

  Yep, and it took me two months to read it because I was like, I don't know what was going on, it was probably, I don't know, who knows, taking breaks to touch my body, probably.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:57Theo Von?

  But, it was awesome, and every time I came back to it, dude, it was just fascinating.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Thanks, man.

• 29:02Theo Von?

  And it's a, it's a, it's a book about, well, it's a book about a boy who's kind of neglected, and then he has to take on the world himself, is that right?

• 29:10Speaker 01

  I would say, yeah. Yeah, it's, uh, it's about a boy who grows up on a, that's what it looks like. On a farm, just a shit farm.

• 29:20Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  And, um,

• 29:23Theo Von?

  He lives in a cage, is it, or in a?

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Well, he just lives outdoors. His parents don't let him sleep in the house.

• 29:29Theo Von?

  Got it.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  And he sleeps, sleeps in the shed, and he just sits on the porch steps where the animals are. He's the, his father, i- i- it's one of these farms, his father's got like one pig, he's just trying to get a little extra.

• 29:39Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  And, uh, his parents are very overwhelmed, and his father one day tells his, uh, the, the bank comes to overtake the house. They give him a few days, so the father tells the mother to slaughter all the meat and- And he he goes on the horse and says, I'm gonna sell this horse and I'll come back and he never, he just never comes back.

• 29:59Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  So the kid's left with his mother who's just so weak. And she just tells him, you gotta, you gotta go. And he's like 10. And she tells him, I can't, your, your, your luck's worse here than it would be out there.

• 30:12Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  So, and she's just too hollowed out to overcome what's going on with her. And.

• 30:19Theo Von?

  And she probably thinks the best thing she could do is to save him would be to send him off.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Get him out there and let him learn how to start taking care of himself. So all she tells him is stay alive any way you can. That's like the, all of the advice he's given. And he just hits the road and I started writing it and I, I didn't know. It's not, I, I, it's the first novel I ever wrote. I wanted to write novels when I was a kid. I was like the first thing I really wanted to be.

• 30:43Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  And then I just took so many drugs that I feel like I burnt my brain out and it's only now really recovering.

• 30:51Theo Von?

  Is that true, you're saying that?

• 30:52Speaker 01

  I feel that way a little bit. I used to feel that way, but.

• 30:55Theo Von?

  Were you using opioids or whatever?

• 30:57Speaker 01

  When I was a kid, I was doing a lot of, smoking a shit ton of pot.

• 31:01Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  And we took a lot of acid and mescaline and stuff like that too. And I don't think that hurts you. But it does take out the linear of your thinking a little bit, but. But.

• 31:13Theo Von?

  But your life got busy too then.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then I became a comedian, which I always thought was like, just, it's a free form scattershot verbal art. So I always felt like I could, it was what I could handle, you know? But I wanted to be a writer, you know, and I wrote television, but writing TV and movies is, is more like a blueprint. You're, you're, it's technical writing. Here's what needs to happen when we shoot this. But actually writing something that's meant to be read is what I really wanted to do. And.

• 31:44Theo Von?

  God, so cool.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I started writing short stories a few years ago and I got really back into it. And when, when Ingram kind of like came into my head, I just had this ritual of sitting down every day. And asking him like, what happened to you? And he, and it was just a story that just kept coming.

• 32:00Theo Von?

  Asking the child, the character?

• 32:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, like what happened? And I felt like I was taking care of him by like taking an honest account, trying to just be honest and not trying to achieve anything in writing it or trying to, you know what I mean? Or be impressive. I just wanted to be. I just want to hear the voice and see what happened and and I worried about him every day because he has a hard it's a hard life that he lives.

• 32:24Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  But I learned from him because he kept like just being curious and reporting when it stinks, but not complaining.

• 32:33Theo Von?

  Yeah, I mean, there's times he takes on some abuse a couple of times and I was like, God, it's like you like.

• 32:41Theo Von?

  Yeah, I mean, there's parts, especially toward like the later parts of the book, so harrowing some, you're like, God, why can't he, why doesn't he know better?

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, he's he's he's just simple. I mean, he's not simple like.

• 32:56Theo Von?

  Like.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Mentally challenged. He just hasn't had any.

• 32:58Theo Von?

  Like Dennis Rodman or whatever, or who else I was gonna say, that's not fair. Or no, somebody else, let me think.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Dennis Rodman is anything but simple.

• 33:06Theo Von?

  You're right. That's a great.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  Complex dude.

• 33:08Theo Von?

  Yeah, he's a fucking Rubik's Cube of a man.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. All the stickers are different. There's not even one color is the same.

• 33:14Theo Von?

  Yeah, dude, yeah.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:16Theo Von?

  Yeah, even one of those like Indian kids couldn't put that down.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Blah, forget it.

• 33:22Theo Von?

  Yeah, that was a bad choice, but um, but yeah, dude, there was times you're like, ah.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:29Theo Von?

  You feel for him that much and you did such a great job of making me feel for him.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks.

• 33:34Theo Von?

  I can't tell like how I got to know him so good as I'm reading it.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Well, I feel I I guess, I don't know, for boys. It's this thing of getting thrown out into the world a little bit.

• 33:45Theo Von?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  I I was alone a lot as a kid.

• 33:50Theo Von?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  And out in the street, just trying to figure out what life is. And you just become you're kind of a Mike, a boy is kind of a microcosm of. A human ape turning into a human being, you know what I mean? Like adapting.

• 34:06Theo Von?

  Evolution's right there.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, evolution from the first day of life, especially if you're kind of left alone. If you spend a lot of time alone as a boy, you're just catch as catch can and then you go, oh, I guess that's what this is like.

• 34:19Theo Von?

  Right.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  And you some things you get strong at and some you don't and.

• 34:24Theo Von?

  And some of these you learn from the worst influences too. It just happens to be the influence that was passing through town.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 34:30Theo Von?

  Stopped and rolled his window down. It's kinda crazy the way you can get influence. That's kinda what happens to him in some ways, huh?

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, like there's this one part where he's got, uh, he's been working on a farm, um, like just pulling up corn and he makes money in dimes.

• 34:44Theo Von?

  I know.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Just cause it's the first currency that he learned to respect was a 10 cent dime. So he makes them pay him in dimes and he has, he hides them under a tree. And when he decides to leave the farm, he digs them up and he falls asleep in his cabin and there's this, he wakes up and there's this guy there. About to steal his money. And Ingram at this point has a little knife and he's, he's thinking of, he's gonna have to defend himself, you know, he's gonna have to stick this guy. But he, he, he's trying to figure out, cause he's never been taught. Is it okay to actually harm somebody for money?

• 35:17Theo Von?

  Hmm.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Like is it, it to, to defend yourself is one thing, but to defend this thing?

• 35:25Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  And, um, and then it occurs to him that the guy might be a little scared, even though he's bigger than him. Even if it's a kid, like it's not easy to beat the shit out of a kid.

• 35:37Theo Von?

  Right.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Like it's no small thing. So.

• 35:39Theo Von?

  Yeah, they're resilient. Kids survive.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you're gonna go through something. So, so Ingram says to the guy, uh, why don't we split it? And the guy goes, I don't have to split it with you. I can just take it. He goes, yeah, you can, but it's gonna be trouble.

• 35:53Theo Von?

  Hmm.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  I'm gonna give you a hard time. I'll split it with you now and by, it's my money, but I'll give you half of it if we could just split it. And then they look at it and neither of them know how to count. So they got that problem. But I didn't know where it was going. I got to this moment in it where they're in this standoff and I was like, what's his solution? But by following his logic and in the way he looked at life without having been taught, he found solutions. That I just came to me naturally, um, that I wouldn't have found in life. Do you know what I mean? You just get taught things like you gotta defend, you gotta, anybody fucks with you, you have to hurt them.

• 36:31Theo Von?

  Right.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  You do, you know?

• 36:33Theo Von?

  Let's split the difference.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Split them out. I'll take half.

• 36:36Theo Von?

  I'll take half.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  I'll take half and nobody has to throw a punch.

• 36:39Theo Von?

  I stay alive and also I don't have to feel the pain of if I stabbed you and if I shouldn't have.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 36:43Theo Von?

  Which can be just as harrowing.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Of course. You gotta walk around in life knowing you stabbed somebody for. Hundred dollars?

• 36:50Theo Von?

  Yeah. Oh dude, it was, there's a lot of great parts. Man, it's honestly, bro, it's awesome. It was so much fun to read. It reminded me of like, I mean, this sounds crazy, but it reminded me of like a real book.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I feel the same way. To me, it's, it still doesn't add up to me or make sense that I wrote a book. I grew up in a world of books. You look at a book, you're like, well, nobody, that's somebody else.

• 37:13Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Somebody else can do that, not me. And I've tried, I've written, uh, short stories and things that have sputtered out. When I got to the end, like when I, when the publishers, I, I got a publisher, this place Ben Bella.

• 37:25Theo Von?

  Simon and Schuster, is that you're with?

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, Simon and Schuster is distributing it.

• 37:28Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  But the publisher is a company called Ben Bella out of Texas. Really nice people. And when I started working with them and they were going through the book and the editorial part, they, they said it was kind of curious that I say the end. Cause it's like a Grimm's fairy tale. Like nobody does that anymore. But I asked to keep it because that's, to me, it was crazy that I got there.

• 37:46Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  I couldn't believe I got to the end and I was just like, the, the day I finished this, I was like, I wrote a fucking novel. And, uh, you know, if I wasn't me with a little bit of sense that I could probably sell something, I don't know that it gets out. I have no idea.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  And everybody that's right, I haven't, I haven't had anybody read it that hates me, so I don't know if it's good.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  But, uh, you know, I don't know. Folks can buy it. It's, yeah.

• 38:15Theo Von?

  It was great. And I know it comes for, it's, you can preorder it now.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:19Theo Von?

  September 20th, 20th?

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Not November. It's coming out in November, mid-November.

• 38:24Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Uh, but you can preorder. It's good if people preorder it, cause then they'll, they'll print more.

• 38:31Theo Von?

  Put the ranks up, yeah.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Get it up there.

• 38:32Theo Von?

  Get it up. And look, I'm not even joking, guys, like, you know, I like to read. I really, like, especially for like a young man, like, um, if you've had neglect in your life, or you wonder like how a child would start to. Absorb the world um with not even not even being taught how to be much of a sponge in a way. Kind of like, I mean, it's just fascinating and it was, it was, it took, I was just right there in it. I was right there in it with him. It takes place in Texas, right?

• 39:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:06Theo Von?

  Oklahoma, Texas or something?

• 39:08Speaker 01

  Texas.

• 39:08Theo Von?

  And so like, yeah, he's just like walking along the highway and these car, like things are cars or badly things he's never even seen.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Seen any of it.

• 39:16Theo Von?

  It's all fucking great.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, he calls the pavement hard black dirt because he doesn't really know what, because he grew up barefoot in the dirt and.

• 39:23Theo Von?

  It amazed me. I was like, oh shit, somebody can do this, I think. I think that was probably the, like, cause like, you know, you and I know each other and I knew that I know like your comment, I know that. And then I, I, I've gotten to know you some as a person, but then to see that somebody can make this and it's a real fucking book. I have a lot of friends that have made some okay books.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:44Theo Von?

  You know what I'm saying? I'll buy them. I'm not reading them.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:49Theo Von?

  But this, I was like.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Well, I love doing it. I wrote another one. I just finished another second one. And if I can make that what I do, I'm going to make that what I do.

• 39:58Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Like I see in the, I, I mean, whatever, when you get a vision of what you want your future to be, you might get 40% of it. And that's okay with me. But what I like is the idea of having kind of like a nice cruising altitude standup comedy. Performing and writing novels because I really love doing it. Um, and now that I wrote one and the second one was a lot, it took me much longer. I spent a year and two months on the second one. Because this one I was like, wanted to finish so that I wouldn't not finish it. But now that I know I can finish one, I feel like I got a flow. It's really fun to do. Yeah.

• 40:35Theo Von?

  And do you think it's the most, because all I wanted to be, I think, when I was a kid was a writer, probably. Like I love to read John Irving. I loved, once I got into his stuff, it was like so exciting, like all the different possibilities.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:48Theo Von?

  And the ways that like, um. Who was that Irish lady that uh? O'Car-

• 40:54Speaker 01

  Flannery O'Connor.

• 40:54Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

• 40:57Theo Von?

  God.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  What an imagination.

• 40:59Theo Von?

  Yeah, I was like, I could be a murderer.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  She has this story about a wo- a kinda cranky woman who lives alone on a farm. She like runs a farm.

• 41:08Theo Von?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  And she's just tough. And the guy next door, who's black, she's every, I mean, the N-word, talk about the N-word. Flannery O'Connor, it's like fucking polka dots on wallpaper.

• 41:19Theo Von?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, look.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  It's everywhere, it's just everywhere.

• 41:22Theo Von?

  If you like some soft use of it.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, yeah. But so in this story, the guy next door has a bull that keeps cut, get, keeps getting loose and coming over to her property.

• 41:32Theo Von?

  Hmm.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  And she hates it, and it's this, this, just this, you're in this woman's crankiness. And it's really something to be like, instead of like, this thing where we watch Karens on YouTube and say, that's somebody else. You, she takes you inside the mind of a very bitter and cranky person, who just doesn't like the world she's in.

• 41:52Theo Von?

  Hmm.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  And in the end of the story, it's a short story, uh, the book, the, uh, the bull gores her to death.

• 41:59Theo Von?

  Oh.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  The gor- the bull gets his fucking horns in her stomach and rips her to pieces.

• 42:04Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  And, and Flannery O'Connor-

• 42:06Theo Von?

  Some black neighbor males will get there. If you leave your wife around.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and she, she, uh, she dies, um, and the book stays in her head while she's dying.

• 42:18Theo Von?

  Oh.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  So you get to, it like, you see the lights get brighter and you see, some, I don't remember, I read this for a long time ago, it stuck with me.

• 42:25Theo Von?

  Greenleaf, it says.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  I, I don't know if that's the one, but, does she die with the bull at the end?

• 42:33Theo Von?

  The, uh, one day, Miss May is upset to find a stray bull on her property, she's worried that the bull will breed with her milk cows.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  That's it, right.

• 42:41Theo Von?

  She blames Mr. Greenleaf.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:43Theo Von?

  Who appears reluctant to confront the bull.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  There it is, but uh, before she dies, Miss, Mrs. May has a moment of spiritual clarity. Uh, the story notes that she has the look of a person whose sight has been suddenly restored, but who finds the light unbearable.

• 43:02Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  I mean, what the fuck? And this, this is the thing, Flannery O'Connor was just a regular person in America. And it kinda, uh, one of the reasons I, that I wrote Ingram is because I live in a world, New York City, you know, modern culture and, um, but this, America has always had this voice. People like Flannery O'Connor, Mark Twain, who were, or Harper Lee, um, who were born in little places, quiet little places, people like you, you have this kind of a voice where it's not through like, uh, Harvard education and like, you know, reading, it's, it's just

• 43:48Speaker 01

  that you, the American, the American voice is very eloquent, simple and eloquent. With that sentence I just wrote, wrote of hers, that's not a collegiate sentence. That's like someone who lived, uh, in an old house and walked really far to the grocery store and had thoughts like that. That's what, you grew up in some parish, you know, people, where I'm from, a word parish just sounds so exotic. It's just a different, you grew up in, in America and it made you an eloquent person. When, like Abraham Lincoln, he, he, a lot of years of Abraham Lincoln's life, he lived in a lean to with an open, that he would lay with his family and there was no wall

• 44:30Speaker 01

  and he'd see like a, a jaguar come up and sniff the family and he'd just lay there. And he, yeah, and then he ended up saying some of the most beautiful things ever said just by opening his mouth.

• 44:43Theo Von?

  Right.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  I just think that America has that language in it. And I started to hear this kid and I thought, I wonder if I could make a connection with somebody who sounds like that. And that's a humble, I don't know that I did it, but I, but that's what I was trying to touch, you know?

• 44:58Theo Von?

  When you're listening to Ingram, to help him guide you to write the book.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Something like that, yeah.

• 45:04Theo Von?

  No, and look, man, I, you just have such a, I mean, like, I just, you're so good at like, you're like the guy who's like.

• 45:15Theo Von?

  Say like your feelings and everything was like a cave or whatever and everybody's at the top and they're like, we can't go in there, you know, and they're they're not even, there's like one brave Mexican guy who's like selling fucking snocones or something, but not a lot.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  At the mouth of the cave?

• 45:33Theo Von?

  At the mouth, yeah, but it's close. It's no abierto.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  No abierto.

• 45:38Theo Von?

  Yeah, yeah. And he says that.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, no abierto. But you want a snocon?

• 45:43Theo Von?

  That's it, right?

• 45:45Theo Von?

  Because

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Cinquenta centavos para un snocon. Pero eso no es abierto, amigo. No pase.

• 45:55Theo Von?

  But then you walk up and you have like your fucking spelunking gear and shit. You're like, who the fuck?

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:01Theo Von?

  Is this psychopath? But you go, but you're like, I'll be back. And people are like, what? You can't go in there. Look at all the signs. There's like a million signs. You're like, no, no, no. I've been in here. I spent a lot of time in here. I left something down there. You know, I left one, a favorite pack of bubble gum down there.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 46:20Theo Von?

  But you were just so good at going in there and like just being in there, man. But also getting in there and getting in there and like seeing what the like stalagmites are that are hangups in our time or in our feelings, in our existence, in what it means to evolve like personally. Like, man, you're just like such a archaeologist of, I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's emotions or feelings or just of existing kind of.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Well, that's what I love to try to do. What you're describing is what I try to do on, I've never heard it that way, but that's what it does feel like is is being a guy, bringing people to these places and going, it's okay. It's, it's, you can look at this.

• 47:11Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Without letting it hurt you. Or you can let it hurt. And you're gonna be okay on the other side. It's okay.

• 47:20Theo Von?

  Right.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  And having that, and because I've been doing stand up for forty years now, like, I'm very beyond taking it personally. So if I say something to a crowd and I feel them resist, I don't take, I don't go like, oh, they don't like me. Now, that's one, one of the problems of being a stand up is you're so exposed. Personally, so if they don't like something, you feel like you take it on.

• 47:47Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  But I'm okay with any outcome, like, they're all okay. So if I say something and people just go, what? I go, cool, now we're here.

• 47:55Theo Von?

  Right.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Now we're here that you're weirded out. There's a bunch of places we can go from here because I see it all as okay. I think I see every feeling is worth, worth having. Especially if you don't, like, I kinda came up with this new idea in my life recently, which is that your feelings are like fire and you warm yourself by them. You sit by the fire of the feeling. You don't get in it and let it burn you, but you also don't go away because it's, it's hot. You don't go away from it. And then you're cold out there and there's no light. Just sit and just let it, you know what I mean?

• 48:31Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  So I'm trying to get better at that. I think a lot of, early in life, I was more brutal about like, yeah, look at this shit. This is fucked up. Look at this shit. And that's, it's, that's just kinda messy. But I'm trying to get a little more refined at taking people to hard things to talk about. And going like, just, let's just sit next to this for a second and how does it feel to be next to this? You know?

• 48:53Theo Von?

  Yeah, what are we doing here?

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Get used to it. Yeah, because, uh, every experience in life, certainly feelings are, I think feeling is living. You know, I used to think thinking was more or learning, but I think feeling, when people really feel they're right on, they're, you know what I mean?

• 49:11Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Feelings are never wrong. They're, uh,

• 49:14Theo Von?

  Ooh, yeah, they're pretty pure, huh?

• 49:16Speaker 01

  They are.

• 49:16Theo Von?

  Even if they're, even if the, you may not agree with somebody's feeling or something.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:22Theo Von?

  It's interesting to see why they have it. If you believe that it's pure from them. Well, it also goes back to that lady's quote to Flannery O'Connor's quote. I mean, that's more like about feeling in there.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I finally saw the the world and it was unbearable and and it is especially when you first really see it. But if you're willing to like Chris Rock, he's a good friend and he's sometimes a mentor. He says great things.

• 49:46Theo Von?

  Oh, he's the best comedian. He's always been my favorite.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  I remember every time I've I've gone to him in a tough moment, he's never let me out of it. Like, like all all I called him once I was doing a pilot for the show Lucky Louis that I as sitcom. And after the we did two shows, we did two performances of the pilot. And after the first one, I was like, I I'm terrible. And I called him up and I said, I'm really scared. I think I might just be a bad actor. And he said, Yeah, wow. Yeah, that's scary. Shit. He wasn't like, You're great, man. He was like, Yeah, well, you better. Study your lines. I mean, because maybe you are. And I was like, Oh, okay.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  And at the same time, like I shot a special once I did two shows and after the first show I called him, I said, I just killed. And he said, You did nothing. Go do it again. You did nothing. Like, he's a guy that makes you really look at it. And.

• 50:43Theo Von?

  Wow, that's cool. That's cool to be that kind of friend.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:46Theo Von?

  It's cool to be that kind of like challenger too.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:50Theo Von?

  Challenge people.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Well, just to be real, I think, you know.

• 50:53Theo Von?

  So true, huh?

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Like in Rocky, you know, in Rocky, one of the great things about Rocky is that it's a sports movie where the guy loses, you know? I don't think most people even realize that Rocky loses the fight at the end. But the big moment in Rocky is when he's talking to Adrian the night before the fight, you know, he goes to the ring and he and he sees the spectacle. And he's been he's been training and they play the music and he went like this. But then the night before the fight, he goes back home to Adrian and he says, I can't beat him. It's just a fact. I can't beat him. He's just in another class. I'm not even close to him. I will not win. And instead of saying, You can do it, Rock, she goes, What are we gonna do? Like she just lets that be real and she goes, What are you gonna do? And then he decides I'm gonna pick my own victory.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  I I can't beat him, but I bet I could be. I bet I could stand there while he beats me. I bet I bet I can get through the fight to the end.

• 51:45Theo Von?

  Wow.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  What a great goal. And that's what he does. And at the end of the fight.

• 51:49Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Apollo Creed wins and Rocky doesn't give a shit because he got what he wanted.

• 51:55Theo Von?

  Yeah, I think and if somebody's honest with you, if there's a real piece of honesty there, then you can navigate from that place.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 52:01Theo Von?

  Which is pretty real as opposed to like things that are so placated. And then you're you're kind of in this fictional space like, yeah, I'm not going to win, you know? But now you're like, okay, how can I win? How do I find a way to do this to navigate this?

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, or what do I do about that? I'm not going to. What else is there? It's not the end of the world because both things like saying you can do this fantasy. It's nowhere you don't have, it doesn't take you anywhere, but all in the same with doom. I can't do anything. I got nothing. Now, where are you? This is reality and usually it's your feelings that will navigate you to where is like in like Rocky did. I can't win. There it is. But what do I? And then he goes inside his heart and goes, I don't have to win. I just don't want to quit. I just want to do that one thing of staying of standing there that I because I've had a hard life. Because I've never gotten anything I wanted.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  That I know I can do. That means I can beat get the shit beat out of me on national TV. But I could do it for 12 rounds. Most people can only do it for eight.

• 53:07Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  That's fucking good.

• 53:10Theo Von?

  And it goes back to like finding that thing, like finding the word, finding how, what is the thing that you really need, right?

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:17Theo Von?

  Maybe he would have liked to have won for sure.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:20Theo Von?

  But what does he really want? What's the real victory for him?

• 53:23Speaker 01

  That's right. Yeah. What is victory? What's what is it to be victorious? What is it to be?

• 53:31Theo Von?

  Right. Like somebody might be working their butt off to make money, but it's like, do you really want money? Do you want to do you like that may be it, but is that just a bluff? Sometimes we get caught in with like this general goal of society or we all get like herded into what the goal is supposed to be without looking at what exactly it is that we want.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, which makes sense because people call less so that they can survive.

• 53:53Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  So human beings are shitty animals. They're like really a human being out in the in the wilderness.

• 54:00Theo Von?

  It's done.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  It's not worth much, but you group group together and you're good. So it's kind of like all the things that are like hard about life are because of what we're good at. People fight and attack each other, but it's they're trying to in a way get closer to together, you know what I mean? I mean, in other words, when people say you shouldn't be doing that. Cause that's what not what everybody else is doing.

• 54:25Theo Von?

  Ah.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Their hearts in the right place, because we all want to be. The weird thing is that now a lot. You get rejected for coming together. Like it's the opposite. It's a weird time right now. It's like a car battery can have a polarity reversal where it gets confused. And suddenly north is south, south is north. We've done something weird where the accepted thing is to be separate. The accepted thing is to be like enemies of each other. You know what I mean? And to if you say, if you move towards the middle of any issue, people start getting nervous because they want you to the safe place is these extremes.

• 55:07Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  But that's doesn't, that's not, that's not what we're good at. That's not what, that's not what got us through the ice age and the, and the, you know, and not, that's not what it got us out of the food chain.

• 55:19Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  What got us out of the food chain was like, just put aside your shit and try to be, um, you know, try to see other people as important to you. So that you'll work together. But now it's like scary to say, I don't know, I'm like this guy, even though he's not like me, you know what I mean? That's that you can get ostracized for being for love. It's a weird, it's a weird time. And I have to believe.

• 55:47Theo Von?

  You can get ostracized for being accepting.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Yes, that's right. There is a sign at one of the theaters I did this week. It says, um, hatred will not be allowed here. Our policy towards hatred is zero tolerance.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  But that's a weird.

• 56:11Theo Von?

  Right. We hate hatred.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Zero tolerance is something you're, that's hate, that's hate, isn't it?

• 56:18Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Zero tolerance and hatred are

• 56:22Speaker 01

  um, opposites.

• 56:24Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  So hatred and zero tolerance are the, are equal. They're the same. Like, no hatred of any kind, it said. I'm like, what about I hate my dad a little bit?

• 56:34Theo Von?

  Yeah. Yeah. How do I even get that out of my system before I go in here to watch a matinee?

• 56:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  So, I don't know. I think, um.

• 56:43Theo Von?

  Yeah, that's like.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  But it's not human nature. There, I have like a faith in the way things are gonna go because, and also I see it. Like, you know, whenever people complain about like, everybody always says this, right? You hear that a lot?

• 56:58Theo Von?

  Does that general term?

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Say this without saying that. Everybody does this. The group that behaves that way is shrinking and shrinking and shrinking. Cause if you really go out on the street, if you get off the, if you look at people in the eyes and you see people every day, most people are just like really eager to find each other again and to, and reaching out to people as, as, as unlike them as they can find. And wanting to find love and common ground. That's how human beings behave. And sometimes there's a confusion that scatters them. Um, but it doesn't last. I don't think, I don't think it can. I mean, if it does, then everybody will.

• 57:39Theo Von?

  And that's, well, yeah, that's.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  That's what'll happen. That'll be the test we didn't pass.

• 57:42Theo Von?

  Yeah. Oh, the test we didn't pass.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it may come or it might not.

• 57:49Theo Von?

  Louie, what if it comes then? We'll get into, some of us can do it.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  Some of us can. Nothing you can't, you know?

• 57:56Theo Von?

  We have to have a meeting though. If things get really bad, we all have to meet somewhere.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Where would we meet?

• 58:06Theo Von?

  I don't know, maybe Denver or something?

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:09Theo Von?

  Someplace where the air is clean, the water is clean still. So you have like a surviving chance.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:15Theo Von?

  Altitude cures some diseases. You don't even, some stuff you don't even get at altitude.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Really?

• 58:20Theo Von?

  Yeah. Or the Amish, you know, the Amish have one tenth of the, um, attention deficit disorder.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  Really?

• 58:28Theo Von?

  That regular.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  They have AIDS a lot though, I heard.

• 58:30Theo Von?

  Ooh.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, Amish AIDS is like, it's kind of.

• 58:34Theo Von?

  Oh no, I, look dude, Amish, look, yeah, I'm not surprised. You ever realize that you spent your entire morning thinking about lunch? It's 9:00 AM and somehow I'm already in negotiations with myself about how I'm gonna spend $20 on a sandwich at noon. And then I eat it, or you eat it, or somebody eats it, and then an hour later, you're just standing in the kitchen worrying about what you'll do for dinner. And that's one reason why I've been into Huell. The Black Edition Powder is a complete meal you have instead of food, not a shake on top of food. Their powder starts at less than $3 per meal, has 40 grams of protein, and mixes with water or milk in about 30 seconds.

• 59:17Theo Von?

  I like Huell's shakes because they're clean and it's quick. Sometimes it may, I just, I would just want to make sure I have everything I need to keep going the way I want to keep going in a healthy manner. So with Huell, basically lunch went from a daily logistical problem to a thing I can solve in about 30 seconds. Make healthy eating simple. New customers get an exclusive offer of 15% off online with my code WEEKEND at huell.com/weekend. That's H-U-E-L dot com slash weekend. Thank you to Huell for partnering and supporting our show. Many folks have a money goal.

• 59:59Theo Von?

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• 1:00:44Theo Von?

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• 1:01:14Theo Von?

  I think ideally that all of us would like to turn our passions into a paycheck. I've always admired anyone who took what they cared about and built something from it. You know, I enjoyed podcasting, but as that evolved, other things came along with it, including a merch shop, where you can go get you a little item, get you a little baby tea or something. But that was a whole new undertaking, and Shopify is the reason I was able to make that happen. Shopify is the best place to start and grow a business and dip your toe in the entrepreneurship waters. Whether it's a side hustle or a full storefront, if you're selling locally or worldwide, Shopify takes the guesswork out.

• 1:01:57Theo Von?

  And now with the AI tools, Shopify Magic and Sidekick, it feels like you have a business partner who always has your back, helping with reports, content ideas, editing images, and more. So if you're ready to build your own empire, whether it's merch, a new product, or the next best idea, get on Shopify.com/theo and make it happen. That's Shopify.com/theo. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

• 1:02:29Theo Von?

  You know, sometimes you go to different people for assistance. You might go to, go to your barista and ask them something. Ask them about your 401K or, or ask them about a divorce or something. Or you might be at a bus stop and just be badgering somebody with questions and they can't help you. It's because they're not a therapist. BetterHelp offers therapy. That's it. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to

• 1:03:11Theo Von?

  mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/theo. That's better H E L P dot com slash T H E O. In, um, the Amish, like, uh, I don't know how, I, I, I don't know if it was like maybe 20 years ago, somebody started recording just on people's genealogy, right? Like a book?

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:40Theo Von?

  And that's kind of their dictionary that they'll keep it to their Google where they'll go and look and be like, "Oh, who is that? I've heard of them and how do I know them?" And they have this, and it's like a, a recurring book that a lot of different families and, um, districts, that's what they live in, called, like, it's, a lot of times it's associated with their church. And so they'll have one, it's their Google. It's like, "Oh, go look and see who they are." And you can see how much land they have or animals. You can see all kinds of things about a certain family, what the children's names are and stuff. So they kind of have their own book. That's like a form of Google right there.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  Descendants of Abe Troyer and Lucinda Summers. That's the book?

• 1:04:14Theo Von?

  I mean, it's basically something like that because, I mean, they started off from just a couple of folks, you know?

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  It's, uh, all records of stuff is fascinating. Like the people used to have to just write everything down.

• 1:04:26Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Forget, you know? I was at the New York Public Library once and they, at the New York Public Library, the big one with lions in front, they have every book there, like ever. And, uh, some of them, you can look at anything you want. Some of them you gotta put gloves on.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  Um, because they're very old.

• 1:04:43Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  And I, I was looking for something about Gloucester, Mass. And the, uh, it says, I don't want to describe what I was looking for because it's just boring. But I found this book that was like the shipping logs for Gloucester back in the 1700s. And I, I read it and it's like an old writing and it just said on, in this winter, you know, 16 ships were lost. Uh, there were 34 new widows and 54 orphans and stuff like that. And just like, uh, just record keeping, but that would make you cry. You know what I mean?

• 1:05:18Theo Von?

  Yeah, dude, things were so severe back then.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Theo Von?

  We're fucking, man, I'm not, but a lot of us are.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, we.

• 1:05:26Theo Von?

  But when it comes to our feelings, we don't wait, like, we're just, I don't know. We're just, we're softer now. Yeah, it used to be like.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Or we're harder. I think people aren't feeling as much, you know, they're avoiding their feelings. I think people are scared of their feelings, but your feelings are native. Like there's no feeling that's going to kill you. It's just not. Uh, avoiding a feeling will kill you, but, um, we do a lot, you know, in addiction and stuff like that to stay away from feeling something.

• 1:05:54Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, even you were talking earlier about go, you like, uh, like a feeling is like a warm place. Sometimes you want to get right by it.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Theo Von?

  Like I was thinking the other day, and I've thought about this before, but I was rekindling the thought that,

• 1:06:07Theo Von?

  um, yeah, something, sometimes I don't want to change certain behaviors just because I don't want to, uh, you, part of you wants to have an excuse because it gives you an excuse not to,

• 1:06:18Theo Von?

  so that other things don't happen, you know? Like there'd be times where I didn't want to quit smoking because I was like, well, if I quit smoking, then I'll have to find something else positive to do. I won't have the excuse that, oh, I can't do that.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:30Theo Von?

  Because I'm smoking or I don't want to feel that because I'm smoking. Cause I would go to smoking a lot of times if I was like, I had an intense feeling or if I, you know, felt rejected or I want to, you know, like, it became this kind of like, um, a bit of like a shower curtain to shield me from like real moments, you know?

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, when your life becomes a series of shit you do, you know, I smoke, I eat, uh, barbecue, I eat, I drink at night. I watch this, uh, then you can avoid like a day, a day of just being on earth. Under the fucking swirling sky is fucking intense. Like you're really, if you're really paying attention, if you really wake up to the present moment, fucking terrifying. It's constantly moving and nothing's promised. Everything that you've accomplished is gone and you're just in this huh. And so if you could just set out a bunch of stupid tasks and like, and like habits.

• 1:07:28Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  You know, and whatever, all ladies night at whatever it is.

• 1:07:32Theo Von?

  Bowling.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Bowling and going to see that. And now they've turned, there's this, this screen on your phone where you don't need to even choose what that is.

• 1:07:43Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  Uh, you just let this feed just kind of keep you glazed over.

• 1:07:49Theo Von?

  Just serving cunt.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Serving cunt all night long.

• 1:07:52Theo Von?

  That's crazy.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  And, uh, and you get, nobody's even sleeping anymore. And you just kind of go to this thing and you're just not, you're not feeling nothing. You're, you're, you're taking, these are fake feelings. These are fake feelings in a safe environment. Can't believe she did that. Oh, I can't believe he said, what a piece of shit. Why are they getting on his case? Like all these just dumb things and like, you know, just keeping it going. It, it used to be that they used to call a thing clickbait where they, they make something so juicy that people would click on it. But nobody's clicking much anymore. It's just, it's just going by. It's just that feed. So they're just going like, like this and, and that's living now.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  The thing I don't understand is who's benefiting because if everybody's doing this, I don't know, eight different people are getting incredibly rich. And, uh,

• 1:08:43Theo Von?

  Oh yeah. And the rest of us are really going to turn into?

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Just, and the, and the, and the phone is burning a circuit somewhere, you know? When your phone is doing that scroll, there's a, there's a physical thing that's, there's like a little light that's burning somewhere. Like in, in North Carolina at like a data farm. Yeah, this isn't, this isn't like, it's not in the phones, not really doing the work. There's something else that's making that, there's a processor that's doing that and take, putting it on the cloud and bringing it to your phone. But there's smoke going in the air, hot smoke. Every time you you just go like this and everybody's doing this all the time.

• 1:09:20Theo Von?

  Oh, in the in the middle of the night, I'll wake up, literally, it's almost like I have to do it for like a minute so I can go back to sleep. I'm not even joking. I'll wake up, I'll see like four things, I'm like, okay.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:30Theo Von?

  Racism, murder.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, just to get, just as a blanket, like murder, like a little.

• 1:09:36Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  Get you back to sleep.

• 1:09:37Theo Von?

  Yeah, someone's dead. Okay, good. Oh, good. A little bit of racism. Ah.

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Theo Von?

  Finally, I was gonna get a sip of water, but that'll that'll do it.

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  No, it's it's very bad for you and and it's such a lucrative addiction.

• 1:09:49Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  And people are are are convinced that that's where they're gonna go to convince people of what's right and wrong. And that's where you sell stuff.

• 1:09:57Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  So everyone just gave into it and it's it's an un, it's like if we were all doing heroin, but somebody somehow stopped calling it heroin.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  And and the the machines that make that that make the run those processes are are gonna get hotter and hotter and AI and all that stuff.

• 1:10:15Theo Von?

  Oh, the data centers are getting crazy, man.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's gonna be nuts. There is, I was reading an article about in Virginia, they they wanna use farmland a lot for the solar panel because the companies that do data don't like, they, you know, they have a style, so they don't wanna be. They don't wanna burn coal, you know, they don't wanna burn oil.

• 1:10:35Theo Von?

  Right, cuz it does, yeah, that seems bad, it seems not cool.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, so nuclear, no problem, all of a sudden, like, that's no longer a problem. And and solar, right? But solar is like heavy, so they it it takes a lot of those things which are made in China and they they pollute a lot just to make them.

• 1:10:52Theo Von?

  The panels?

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  The panels. But anyway, in Virginia, there is this county where they're trying to get these panels out cuz they're putting them on the farmland, so.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  In other words, there used to be farm fields.

• 1:11:05Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  Where the sun, the natural sun, would touch the soil and make green for to eat and to make oxygen. It's like the most perfect thing.

• 1:11:17Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  And they're putting these fucking black panels on over the flowers to catch the sun and use it instead.

• 1:11:30Theo Von?

  So you and I can doom scroll.

• 1:11:33Theo Von?

  And a lot of the, um, the data centers, they're, they're using up like a lot of the water, right? They're using up a lot of like power in places like they're monopoly and they're building them everywhere.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  Everywhere.

• 1:11:42Theo Von?

  And it's happening fast. And we started to look at, well, like, we were talking with that Sam Altman guy. He's a chat GPT. He's like started that, right?

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:50Theo Von?

  And I was saying, well, do you feel like the earth could look like, bring up that picture that we had, it was like the whole earth is covered in panels. And it's kind of what we see when we watch like Star Trek.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  Yes, or like Doctor Who. I don't know if you ever watched that show, but like there's, if you, if you look at, um, water towers, like it used to be you go into an old town, like in the middle of Kansas or something, and folks are still wearing like cowboy hats. They're still driving old GMC trucks with faded side panels. Like going into a place like that is very beautiful. Uh, when you look at the water towers now, which these faded, beautiful, big tanks in the sky, they're crusted over with these cell, uh, cell phone, uh, things. You could probably find an image like.

• 1:12:36Theo Von?

  Oh, they attached them all to them?

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're all over. And it's like, um, they're, they're completely covered in them now. And it's very ugly. And it feels like a mold. Like if you look at it, it feels like there's just this weird. And so when you look at the, the combination of that with people on the streets staring into a rectangle of black of nothing, you know what I mean? A black rectangle.

• 1:13:02Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  And everyone's just going like this. And there's these crusty things. It makes it feel like a, like a creature in a way, but it's not, it's, I don't think, I don't have some idea that it's from the outside. It's like something inside of us wanted so badly to not feel or something. It just, it started little, like this feels good, you know?

• 1:13:24Theo Von?

  With looking at our screens and stuff?

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, or like television first. I mean, it started with like theater, maybe.

• 1:13:30Theo Von?

  Oh, dioramas. I remember, remember that?

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Sure. Yeah. Or like stereo, stereo, uh, photos.

• 1:13:36Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  People used to hold up a thing. You could see.

• 1:13:38Theo Von?

  Fucking Peep and Tom and was good.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. And like people, like a girl with like, you know, little titties and heavy hips and you put a nickel in. That's where it started. Yeah. Porn is the whole thing. But that that thing became, let's all go to a movie theater and everybody would go sit in a theater together or vaudeville and then TV, then we went home by ourselves to do it and it got, you know what I mean? More and more.

• 1:14:05Theo Von?

  Definitely got really used to it.

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it happened gradually, but it's become something really fucking weird.

• 1:14:12Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, you're sitting there and you you start to notice when you're looking at your screen and then when you'll come out of it, you know?

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:14:19Theo Von?

  And you're saying it's like a molten like a crab, like a shell?

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:22Theo Von?

  And they start to like get other like barnacles and things on it?

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's barnacles.

• 1:14:25Theo Von?

  It starts to, oh, for sure.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  It's barnacles of avoidance, of like love avoidance.

• 1:14:31Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 1:14:32Theo Von?

  Oh.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  And maybe it's because we, like, did you see the eclipse that happened back in a couple of years ago or April?

• 1:14:39Theo Von?

  I did, man. Dude, I heard one of the most racist things while I was watching it too. I hate to even bring that up.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  What did you hear?

• 1:14:46Theo Von?

  I was standing next to a guy and I'm gonna assume the guy was racist just because of what he said. He was talking to one of his buddies.

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:52Theo Von?

  And the eclipse was happening and he goes, oh, look at that. Even the sun wants to be a, and he said the N word.

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:14:59Theo Von?

  I was like, oh.

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  You know, on its face, you could take that as a

• 1:15:06Speaker 01

  being loving black people.

• 1:15:09Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  Even the sun, like, if you say it like this.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  Brother, even the sun wants to be a black man.

• 1:15:17Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  You could take it like that.

• 1:15:20Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  You could convert what the guy said and make it that now.

• 1:15:22Theo Von?

  That's a great point, actually. You know what? There was a beautiful.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  And that is actually most racism, I think, is envious.

• 1:15:28Theo Von?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  Everybody wants to be one of those guys, man. Even the sun, I mean, some racism gets beautiful because that's beautiful.

• 1:15:36Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  That's poetic. Even the sun wants to be a black man. That's what he's, what's hurting him is not that black people are bad. It's that everybody wants to be one, damn it.

• 1:15:47Theo Von?

  That's a.

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  Even the sun, like, somebody gets so racist that they become, that they, you know? I remember when Obama was running for president and there was Sarah Palin's rallies. Some people would yell out racist shit.

• 1:16:01Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  Every time she mentioned his name, they'd go, all right, here we go.

• 1:16:04Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  So she said his name and this woman with a, with a real like town, you know, a real, you know, old movies with a uh, pitchforks and.

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  Torches, you know, uh, some lady yelled out about Obama, you need gloves to touch him.

• 1:16:25Speaker 01

  And I was like, woo.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  But I thought there is a few ways to look at that.

• 1:16:31Theo Von?

  Hmm. Oh, it's priceless.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  Yes. And also like some part of her is going, I want to touch him. Why can't I touch him? But I need gloves because he's just, because he's precious or like, you need gloves to touch him.

• 1:16:45Theo Von?

  Hmm.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  There's a lot of, there's a lot in that, you know?

• 1:16:48Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  What do you want to touch him for?

• 1:16:49Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:50Speaker 01

  Man, you need gloves to touch him.

• 1:16:52Theo Von?

  You need gloves.

• 1:16:52Speaker 01

  Well, you could also just leave him alone, but some man you really wants to touch him, but you're scared to, it's a complex thing.

• 1:17:00Theo Von?

  Yeah. Oh yeah. The truth of that dude.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:03Theo Von?

  I remember the first time a black man touched my hand one time.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:17:07Theo Von?

  And it was different.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Sure. How old were you?

• 1:17:10Theo Von?

  I was probably

• 1:17:14Theo Von?

  ten or something nine.

• 1:17:16Speaker 01

  Why did he touch your hand?

• 1:17:18Theo Von?

  Well, I went over to my buddy's house and they were swimming just in like this little kind of round little, I don't know if it was a pool or just like it had tetanus in it or whatever. It was like, it's like a, it was like a, something for animals that they had put water in it. So we're just playing in there and swimming in there, whatever. And this guy, this black man had come and he was kind of like tickling us and stuff sometimes. I think he was being okay. I don't know if he was, but I, that's, but anyway, I don't know, but he, but then he lifted me up out of that thing too. And I just remember like also he like touched my hand and I just was like, oh, that's interesting.

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:17:57Theo Von?

  This was like kind of interesting.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:59Theo Von?

  Dude, I remember I walked into a black doctor.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:02Theo Von?

  This is in Nashville. This is two years ago.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:04Theo Von?

  I'd never walked into a room in my life with a black doctor.

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  Huh, yeah.

• 1:18:10Theo Von?

  And I was like, whoa.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:11Theo Von?

  And I wasn't like, you know, I was just, I, I,

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  It's new. It's something's new.

• 1:18:16Theo Von?

  Yeah. And I was like, you guys, everybody, you know, looks at the same books or charts or, you know, I just didn't know.

• 1:18:23Theo Von?

  You know, it's almost like when you're at Foot Locker and there's a white woman working in there. You know what I'm saying? Like.

• 1:18:30Speaker 01

  And you're like, this is interesting.

• 1:18:31Theo Von?

  Yeah, I support, I'm here for it.

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  Last time I was in a Foot Locker, I bought these in a Foot Locker. Oatmeal colored New Balance. I got them in a Foot Locker in Salt Lake City.

• 1:18:44Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  And a young guy, I mean, I am really an old man when I'm in a retail situation. I'm just older. And, uh, and this young guy helped me and he took me through a few different ideas and he let me try some different things. He took the stuffing out of the sneakers for me. Set me up.

• 1:19:05Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:06Speaker 01

  And then I tried them on. He was patient while I walked around feeling like, what are the, what's this like? You know?

• 1:19:13Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  He really liked, he was like my mom, like shoe shopping with me.

• 1:19:16Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  And he was maybe 19 and I could tell he was kind of fidgeting, like this guy's making me do a lot, but,

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  I bought the sneakers and then I did something that I think my dad used to do and that I used to do when I was, I don't know when, but, um, I shook his hand at the end, just changed the money. And I said, thanks very much. And I shook his hand and he was like, what the fuck is this? Like, he didn't know what that was. But that used to be, it's like, you know, it's the proprietor. It's like you're going to the haberdashery and you think, you know.

• 1:19:46Theo Von?

  Good work.

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Thanks for your help today.

• 1:19:49Theo Von?

  Appreciate that.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  He was just like, what's being done with my arm right now?

• 1:19:52Theo Von?

  Yeah. It is crazy though.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:55Theo Von?

  That there will be a time soon, Louis, where people were like, so we used to take a guy's hand that you didn't know.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:01Theo Von?

  And move it up and down.

• 1:20:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, you used to pump it.

• 1:20:03Theo Von?

  For two seconds?

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, some people dap.

• 1:20:08Theo Von?

  That's okay. The handshake was for real, but then now people are nervous too. I think when they're around other people, people have wet hands. And that is scaring a lot of people.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  Well, when you shake hands, you take, you really connect because every finger has a different intention in the thumb. And you grip someone with the perfect balance of like, I don't want to hurt you, but I want you to, I don't want to make you feel. Like you're here with me. I wanna, you know what I mean?

• 1:20:34Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  And then we're gonna, I don't know what the shake is about, though.

• 1:20:38Theo Von?

  Yeah, bring that up. Why did the hands shake after they touched?

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:41Theo Von?

  I could see them touching.

• 1:20:43Speaker 01

  You know, like whenever they try to make movies about like Middle Ages or like, you know, the places of lore, like Lord of the Rings or like the future, they always reinvent, like they do like the crap, the clasp of the, you do this thing. Um, but a handshake is a globally widespread brief greeting or parting tradition in which two people grasp one, one, you do it.

• 1:21:06Theo Von?

  And, and, and two people grasp one of each other's hands and it is often accompanied by a brief up and down movement of the grasped hands. Um, customs surrounding handshakes are specific to cultures. The handshake may have originated in prehistory as a demonstration of peaceful intent since it shows that the hand holds no weapon.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 1:21:26Theo Von?

  Another possibility is it originated as a symbolic gesture of mutual commitment to an oath or promise. One of the earliest known depictions of a handshake is an ancient Assyrian relief of the ninth century B.C. depicting the Assyrian king Shalmaneser the third clasping the hand of the Babylonian king Marduk Zaker Shemi.

• 1:21:46Speaker 01

  So there's a picture of that down there, right? Yeah, two guys, two, uh, kings that were probably just fighting.

• 1:21:55Theo Von?

  And they said, hey, let's.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:58Theo Von?

  Settle it.

• 1:21:59Speaker 01

  I can't hurt you for this one second.

• 1:22:01Theo Von?

  Right, no swords.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz I'm using my fighting hand. It's gonna be punched with the left. It's gonna be weird.

• 1:22:06Theo Von?

  That's a good point because they both have a staff in one hand that shows that they've been walking. The other hand would grab the sword there.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  That's your sword hand.

• 1:22:13Theo Von?

  Yeah, brother. That's cool.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  You can get close to me. It's all right. You've got my hand. I've got yours.

• 1:22:20Theo Von?

  Right. We're even Steven, brother.

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  So, but that gives me back to that fucking eclipse. That racist eclipse. Yeah. Because I saw the eclipse in Vermont. Up in Stowe, Vermont, or where were you? In the center of Lake Champlain.

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  At the time, I was dating a woman who was very wonderful. We had it. We were together for about a year. We're not together now, but. She sounded hot. She was. She was great. So we, we decided to, we wanted to see the eclipse. Totality, you know, like there's certain places where there's like a line across America, like this diagonal line, and only if you stood in that line, could you actually see the sun totally. Oh, okay. So it's a real hot bed, it's a real hot bed for eclipsing? Yes, it's where you see the actual, the, the moon totally cover the sun and you go into total darkness. It's called totality. Any other place you'd get a little, it's a little off and it's still basically daylight. Got it.

• 1:23:24Speaker 01

  And so we decided to go and, and I, I looked on that line and the place that was best for where we were in New York was an island in the middle of Lake Champlain. And she's like, I have a cousin who lives on that island. It's like North Hero Island, I think it's called. And so we went there and it was kind of like a thing to get. We got, we were kind of just, we got there an hour before the eclipse started. And we're seeing people scurrying to where they're gonna watch the eclipse. It was like the world was coming to an end. Folks were getting coolers with stuff and folks were, you know, everyone, and the closer we got, the more quiet the streets got.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  And now people were just sitting in lawn chairs all over Vermont, like just like this, getting ready. And they all had these glasses on. Yeah. And it was just like, and we're the only car. It was like a, like an end of the world movie. Hell, yeah. And we get there and her cousins are all, they're all carrying big baggies of cigarettes. Because they buy their cigarettes at an Indian reservation where they don't sell them in boxes. They get a deal on them? Yeah, they get a big. Oh, God, yeah. So they're just walking around with a bag. And just take smoking and these were great people. We're like in right in the right place. It's just a dead end road on an island in a Vermont, you know?

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  And we went out into the middle, me and this woman, we went out into the middle of this field. Where the and and we could hear so as the thing started and everything started going not black, but brown. There was this brown, the the sun disappeared behind the moon. And every bird fucking lost its mind. Every bird was like, what the fuck? Like you could hear every bird in its own language saying, bitch, this is fucked up shit. Like just screaming and then people going woo. And then everything was dark and cold, like really cold.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  And I it was an incredibly moving thing and I thought, and then I heard people, there was fireworks going off. And the feeling I had was the meaning thought I had was this is what the end of the world is going to feel like. The end of the world is going to be beautiful because it's going to bring everybody together. Because you can finally just forget it all. You can finally just go here. It's you and me, brother, you know? Yeah, make a sandwich. Yeah, let's just we let's just I got nothing against you like boxers at the end of it like just seconds ago I was and now. I just love you so much that everybody's gonna that nothing that has ever happened is gonna matter at all. Like Warden Gotti, man. Yes, Warden Gotti, like just fine at the end, just going like, man, I loved struggling with you.

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  I got to know you so well in fighting with you. I got I saw your wounds. I saw how you hurt me. And oh my God, and it's going to be this ultimate, especially if we end it, do you know what I mean? Yeah. We're just gonna be like, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. Oh, thank God. Finally, finally I got in close enough. Uh, and we're together now and there's nothing, all that's left is this one second. Yeah. Cause I don't think that time is like, like my sister asked me once, are you afraid when you die? It's not going to feel like it was long enough. Are you afraid when you die, you're going to feel like that wasn't enough life? Yes. Are you? I think so.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  I'm not anymore because when I get a full moment of living, like when I feel open bore. Fucking, you know, aperture point zero eight.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  Uh, that feels so good. I feel like that's it. I got it. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:27:10Theo Von?

  Like when you get a real moment of existing.

• 1:27:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like, that's enough.

• 1:27:13Theo Von?

  Right. Like it can be, and those moments can happen in all types of ways.

• 1:27:17Speaker 01

  All types of ways.

• 1:27:18Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  Sometimes it's just.

• 1:27:20Theo Von?

  Hugging a kid, sometimes it's seeing a parent, you know, wipe a kid's cheek or something.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  Sometimes it's standing on a subway platform and seeing somebody's phone is next to the track and going like, oh.

• 1:27:32Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:33Speaker 01

  Like I see life now.

• 1:27:35Theo Von?

  There's so much in that one thing.

• 1:27:36Speaker 01

  That's so shitty.

• 1:27:36Theo Von?

  Sometimes it's reading that sentence by Flannery in that Flannery.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, sometimes it's that, but sometimes it's just the dumb little.

• 1:27:42Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  Just seeing somebody in their dumb little thing.

• 1:27:46Theo Von?

  Seeing one shoe on the fucking interstate.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, just one.

• 1:27:50Theo Von?

  Fuck. That's not me.

• 1:27:52Speaker 01

  And then driving by the next day and it's not there anymore.

• 1:27:54Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:58Theo Von?

  Yeah, and you've got it on and then you're like, oh, yeah, it's getting good. Oh, but yeah, some people used to think the eclipse was just a time when you could use racial slurs and it didn't, and it.

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:28:07Theo Von?

  It didn't.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  But somebody heard it.

• 1:28:09Theo Von?

  Yeah, but still.

• 1:28:10Speaker 01

  Now a lot of people heard it.

• 1:28:13Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah, but there is little moments you're like, yeah, that's life.

• 1:28:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I don't know. I think it's enough. I'd really ambitious to live more. I love it. I'm getting to really love living a lot.

• 1:28:23Theo Von?

  Really?

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:25Theo Von?

  Do you remember when we went to Chris Rock's birthday together? You took me there.

• 1:28:27Speaker 01

  It was an incredible night.

• 1:28:29Theo Von?

  That was so, first we went for Italian food.

• 1:28:31Speaker 01

  That night had no right to be that great.

• 1:28:34Theo Von?

  Oh, we were.

• 1:28:34Speaker 01

  All we did was go to an Italian restaurant.

• 1:28:37Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:38Speaker 01

  And go to birthday party.

• 1:28:39Theo Von?

  Yeah. Can we say that we went to his birthday party or not? It's okay.

• 1:28:42Speaker 01

  It wasn't private.

• 1:28:43Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:44Speaker 01

  It was a big party. Madonna was there.

• 1:28:47Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:47Speaker 01

  I think we can, I think we can say that we were there.

• 1:28:50Theo Von?

  Yeah. Yeah, we felt like misfits, remember?

• 1:28:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:53Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:53Speaker 01

  We were like, this is, because it was super, super famous people. And yet the center of attention, Chris is like my best friend. So, but I, but it was like, this is not, I don't belong here.

• 1:29:04Theo Von?

  And I didn't belong there neither one. So we were just like a pair.

• 1:29:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:06Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  I was like, I was an outcast and you were a not let in.

• 1:29:10Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  At the same party.

• 1:29:13Theo Von?

  So we just had each other, dude. There was so much fun.

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  And we were just standing in the corner, just going, this is so fucking weird and looking at all the famous people there. And, uh, and, uh, and then Chris went up.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  And he said, he took a microphone and he said, um, I, I, I feel like my life must have been good because I got all these, these, because all these people here and especially the comedians who came to see me. And he said, Theo Von and Louis, I'd Louis brought Theo here. It was like the first thing out of his mouth. Was that I brought you there and how much that meant to him. And he said it like three or four times.

• 1:29:50Theo Von?

  It was interesting. I couldn't believe he said that.

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  Meaning more to him than all these other like big shots. It was like really, you know, and I hope that's okay for me to share, but, but.

• 1:29:58Theo Von?

  No, I think it is. I mean, I think it just showed that he was happy that you were there, you know?

• 1:30:02Speaker 01

  And that you were there.

• 1:30:03Theo Von?

  Oh, I couldn't believe that he said my name, but it was also just that, like, uh, yeah, it was just so funny that we were there. We felt uncomfortable. And that he made it so we didn't feel uncomfortable.

• 1:30:12Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:30:12Theo Von?

  That's what I mean.

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. But you know, Theo, you're like a bridge, you know? As a person. That's the way I think about you.

• 1:30:20Theo Von?

  Yeah?

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Because when I first saw you, I, it's because you invited me to be on here. Three years ago, something like that.

• 1:30:28Theo Von?

  Yeah. Two thousand two.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  Twenty.

• 1:30:31Theo Von?

  Twenty twenty two.

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  Two?

• 1:30:32Theo Von?

  Two, three or four years ago.

• 1:30:35Speaker 01

  And, uh, somebody said, this guy wants you on a podcast. I wasn't, I hadn't done any interviews for a long time. And then I was just coming out to do interviews for the first time. I was pushing a special, whatever I was doing. And I saw a little clip of you and I was like, and I, I'm as bigoted as anybody.

• 1:30:52Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:30:53Speaker 01

  So I was like mullet, red state. I don't know. Fucking southern.

• 1:30:57Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah. It's Jim Crow.

• 1:30:59Speaker 01

  Flat fucking, yeah.

• 1:31:01Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:01Speaker 01

  And without contempt, because I love every kind of American. So I was just like, uh, but, uh, but you reached out with like, we'd really like to have him on. And I was like, wow, let's meet somebody new. Meet somebody new, you know? And, uh, and then I went and listened to your standup and I just couldn't believe how funny it was to me and how inventive and how, uh, uh, beautiful, like just really eloquent and funny fucking shit had me laughing so hard. And then we sat down and, and, and talked and I never met anybody like you.

• 1:31:32Theo Von?

  We had fun.

• 1:31:33Speaker 01

  I never met anybody that had such sort of, uh, open sensitivity and such honesty and, um, And you, you're ambidextrous. You, you run all over the, you can be loved by anybody who's willing, you know? And I've gotten to know you. You're beautiful. I love you, man. You're

• 1:31:49Theo Von?

  Thanks, man.

• 1:31:49Speaker 01

  Great guy. And, uh, and you're an example of when somebody brings people together, folks get a little scared of them, you know? There's nothing, you're just willing. You're just, you know what I mean? You'll listen to anybody. It's the way I feel. Um, but you're like a really important guy in the world to me.

• 1:32:07Theo Von?

  Thanks, dude.

• 1:32:07Speaker 01

  I think.

• 1:32:08Theo Von?

  Yeah. Well, uh, well, thank you, dude. That's nice of you. Yeah, I couldn't believe that. Yeah, I just appreciated you bringing me over there. It's been fun to like, become friends and like, you know, like, be able to talk to, it's like, yeah, I don't know, you just, you're able to just to think without a lot of judgment of yourself. And I think that a lot, it gives us so much information.

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:33Theo Von?

  Not a lot of people were, are like, I don't know if it's bravery, if you're just missing a governor inside of yourself.

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:32:38Theo Von?

  That needs to be there.

• 1:32:39Speaker 01

  Well, we have something in common, you and me, because we're, we're born in very different parts of the world, uh, different lives, but we both are broken the same way.

• 1:32:47Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:47Speaker 01

  We both have the same problem.

• 1:32:48Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  And when you have that, uh, that's like a language barrier crosser. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:32:54Theo Von?

  It really is.

• 1:32:55Speaker 01

  You just go like, oh, I get you. I get, I've seen this, man. I've seen it. Believe me.

• 1:33:00Theo Von?

  I own the same.

• 1:33:00Speaker 01

  You really, you see it? Oh, yeah, I know. I fucking see it, man. So, and you've helped me a lot. You've been very kind to me and helped me a lot.

• 1:33:07Theo Von?

  Oh, thanks.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  In ways I needed. And you're younger than me, but I, you know, you've kind of given me guidance and helped me. But, uh, but that's the thing that makes people the closest is that, is their common, like, you were fucked up the same way.

• 1:33:17Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You're fucked up. I'm fucked up. Yeah.

• 1:33:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Thank God. Thank God you're fucked up.

• 1:33:25Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  Cause if I had to look at you and think that you weren't fucked up like me, I, it would just break my heart.

• 1:33:33Theo Von?

  Yeah, dude.

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:33:35Theo Von?

  Dude, yeah, I think um, when, yeah, like, there was one time you said, oh, because you've been through, you've been through like a lot of like stuff in your career, you had like, you know, this is when things had gotten kind of crazy in your career with accusations and all types of stuff and,

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:48Theo Von?

  and uh, and accurate accusations.

• 1:33:50Speaker 01

  Accurate accusations.

• 1:33:51Theo Von?

  And uh,

• 1:33:54Theo Von?

  Yeah. Um, but, but you said, man, I feel so free. And there was something about that to me. I think about that once a week.

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:03Theo Von?

  Because I think about just like the little pieces of ourselves that we like, that we try to manage and operate and we don't even know what they are and we don't even know why they're in pieces.

• 1:34:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:14Theo Von?

  It's like trying to put a, like a, some glass together so you can get a clear reflection of yourself.

• 1:34:19Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 1:34:19Theo Von?

  And it's just like, fuck, how did this, I didn't even break this. And I'm just so tired of cutting my fucking fingers trying to get a look at myself.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:28Theo Von?

  You know, um.

• 1:34:29Speaker 01

  Trying to piece together that broken mirror and cutting your fingers, that's beautiful. It's, it's true. And um, when the, when life fucks it up for you, when it gets torn up, it's a relief. That's why I felt free, you know?

• 1:34:42Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:42Speaker 01

  Because I had, I had tried to manage these problems I had inside of me for so many years. And I tried to, to feel like I was like a normal person.

• 1:34:52Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  Or that I was like, what I thought of as a good person. But I was doing shit in the background of my life that I was ashamed of. I was hurting other people. And trying to tell myself I wasn't. And, you know, those things on the edge like using another person, but you got their permission first, you're still using another person. You're not being with them, you're using them.

• 1:35:13Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  That took me a long time to learn about that stuff. But when you're doing that stuff and creating more and more problems, they just keep getting bigger and bigger. And then the worst thing is if you're having a good life that's like successful, because you're feeling this like incredible rift between like, the way you're representing yourself and who you really are. And it's getting really, and I used to try, I think, some of the early versions of talking on stage really honestly were me trying to get out and say, I'm, I'm not, I'm, I'm corrupt. I want everybody to know it.

• 1:35:43Theo Von?

  Right, I'm a corrupt file.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and um, corrupt file, yeah. And uh, But all of that is like you can't manage it. And so when you're in front of the world and that's going on inside you, it's just like a real, it's real hell. And so when it all, and also when you are successful, because we live in America and there's like, you're taught, it's a work, working community, like you gotta succeed. So when you're succeeding, you believe it's a perfect good, everything you're getting is important, right? You're getting stature, you're getting work, you're getting money. Importance, people are saying good things about you, these things, you just believe that after a while you need those things.

• 1:36:24Speaker 01

  Anyway, when life comes along and just fucking, by the grace of my own fucking mistakes, my own fuckups, they all came back and took everything away from me. And it was the most thing I was most afraid of in the whole world. And it happened. The scariest possible thing. And it happened. Like now, people know about me, they know, they like deeply know, and not perfectly either, like there's, you know what I mean? Because it's fantastical fame world, so they hear their own version and I'm sitting there going like, wait, no, it's not quite like that and all that. It's like the worst thing that could happen, happens.

• 1:37:01Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:02Speaker 01

  And you lose everything you were working for and you, the people you hurt, everybody knows about it now, and also people who love you are hurt by it. I hurt a lot of people who love me by, by mismanaging that and letting, and, and willfully becoming big enough as a famous person, that the, that the downfall hurt a lot of people. People I love. So it was like unbearable, fuck. And.

• 1:37:34Theo Von?

  Yeah, I remember you saying on stage one time, and I'll let you finish your thought, am I messing up by interrupting you?

• 1:37:40Speaker 01

  Go ahead, go.

• 1:37:43Theo Von?

  There was, I remember you saying one time, I was trying to find a flight to somewhere, but every flight was landed on earth. It was all places to other places on earth. And it was so unmanageable.

• 1:37:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was no, I didn't feel safe anywhere in the world. And.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  I was full of a lot of self pity. I was full of a lot of anger too. And also, I just didn't feel safe in the world. Like, I also didn't feel safe inside my own head anymore. And it was kind of like.

• 1:38:09Theo Von?

  Fuck, that's craziest.

• 1:38:11Speaker 01

  That's the hardest thing. You can kind of handle anything except for the inside of your own head when that gets, you know, you know. Because I live in a world where, like I said before, like people coalesce, they come together and that's our strength. So when you get ejected, love for yourself becomes antisocial. Do you know what I mean? Like, sitting there going like, I'm a good person. And most people's mistakes, when people are, get fucked up the way that I had, it's because of a low self-esteem problem to begin with, so.

• 1:38:44Theo Von?

  So you just can't, it's just tannish, yeah, it's like.

• 1:38:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're just sitting there and you're trying to like, feel something good about yourself. It's difficult. And so it was just very overwhelming. And, um, but the losses that I like, I had spent like, I don't know, I was, I wasn't like an overnight success, you know? I was in my 40s when I got really famous and I grew, I built to it very gradually. I worked really hard. I learned a lot.

• 1:39:13Speaker 01

  I got my own TV show because I'd learned how to make a TV show from the ground up. Like, I was a cameraman at a local access cable station and then now I was a director and star. And I'd met so many people and had so many affiliations and a tapestry of a life, a career. And I remember thinking of it like all like tentacles coming off the back of my head, connecting me with the world. And when this thing happened, it was like someone twisted all of them into like a braid and put their foot on the back of my head and just pulled out all the wires. And all of a sudden, I had no, nobody likes me, nobody, everybody, you know, I can't talk to nobody, nobody can, everybody's afraid of me.

• 1:39:58Speaker 01

  And I was just spinning. It was really wild. But now.

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  I look at that, that thing as like a beautiful thing. It's like, I look at that as like God's hands, you know? Or whatever you want to call it. That that was just like a good, caring thing that said, dude, you need to stop.

• 1:40:19Theo Von?

  Yeah, you gotta be detached.

• 1:40:21Speaker 01

  You need to stop, you need out of all this. And that's for me, it was great. Not for other people in my life. Some people, it was hard for them.

• 1:40:28Theo Von?

  Oh yeah, I can certainly imagine that. Yeah, I think it's scary. I think having like a different. Yeah, I mean, I, I mean, I've run it like, I've had a lot of the same issues in my life with just like affection and those sorts of things. And trying to like, never having like any coaching on that and just having severe like, and then you start to figure it out all yourself and you make these crazy like,

• 1:40:54Theo Von?

  like this crazy Tetris of what it's all supposed to be and how love is and like, and then it's also like, um, I'd be a like, but my low self-worth, I was always trying to fill it with like, um, things that weren't re, just, just impossibility. And then, I mean, for me, I got into watching porn and that became this crazy, it's like.

• 1:41:15Speaker 01

  Never ending thing.

• 1:41:16Theo Von?

  I missed my twenties because I was watching porn, you know, it's like.

• 1:41:19Speaker 01

  Same, I was a young kid, like really obsessed with stuff that put me in a dark room when I should have been out in the sunlight.

• 1:41:26Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  And, uh, it twisted around my, and it was, that was all up behind this thing of wanting, just wanting someone lovely and female to look at me and, and tell me I'm okay.

• 1:41:37Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  And tell me that I'm acceptable and even more so, and lovable. And I got, I had such a strange, uh, twisted trip to that moment.

• 1:41:45Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:46Speaker 01

  I never really quite learned it and that's my, that's my shit. But, but, uh, those things, when you're a kid, they're, they're, they're pain. And then when you get to be a grown up with a life and you have effect on other people, it starts becoming a problem for other people. So, um, but I think that if I hadn't lost all of that, I would, it just would have gotten worse because that's why I felt free when I said that to you. Because, um, I could see the real shape of the world. And I could see that nothing I had, that you can't take anything away from me that's really mine. And that I realized I didn't have much that was worth having. I had my family and that's private, that's a different thing for me.

• 1:42:32Speaker 01

  But I realized I need to start making a real treasure chest that has shit in it. That's valuable. That's valuable. I need to stop thinking about why do these people turn their backs on me and and ask myself, yeah, why did they? Like, were you a good friend to them? Who are you useful to in this world? Like, that's where I started was when I wanted to try to reach out and feel less isolated was, who can I be of use to? And I started to try to, but what was easy to let go of was like fame, money and connection and red carpets. That was easy. That was easy. I don't want that back. Yeah. Oh, it seems like a fucking nightmare.

• 1:43:13Speaker 01

  It's shit. It's nothing. Work is different and what we do is public. So it's like the hard thing was like, I wish I was a carpenter. I could just start making chairs again. I love stand up comedy. I love it. It's my life. I love it so much and it's given me so much. And the other thing that happened too, was that when a hard thing that happens to you that feels like an all encompassing thing, when you live with it every day, you go to sleep going, I can't do this. I I went to sleep many nights going, I my days are numbered. I just can't handle this. This is more than I can handle. But then I wake up the next day and I go, all right, I'm still here. It's still here.

• 1:43:53Speaker 01

  It's like a sirens blaring and it's not stopping. And at some point, you just gotta make coffee and talk a little louder. Whatever you gotta, you know, it was like, all right, this is life now. Yeah. And I started to have to look at it and go like, well, everybody doesn't hate me. It's just not true. No. And there's people that love me and they're reaching out to me and I should, I should take their hand. I shouldn't just sit there and be a little victim, you know? And so after like, what felt like a terribly long time of just feeling hated by everybody, I started to see people coming up on the street and saying, where are you? Where are you? Where were you? You know, we, we want to see you.

• 1:44:33Speaker 01

  And I thought, I want to start working again. To me, work was like the thing. I love it. I know I have value there. So I started working again and then it was really hard because I lost a lot of friends for starting again and That's crazy to me. It was, well, it was, everyone was, I used to react to all of this with a lot of anger and confusion, but I started to do psychedelic drug therapy. Yeah. And see that everyone was acting in their own needs and everyone is doing what they need to do and life is really hard for everybody. It's really hard and these times have been really hard for everybody. The thing that ripped my life in half had been ripping lives

• 1:45:18Speaker 01

  around all over the world and everybody was dealing and some people were so scared that what happened to me would happen to them. And you know, there's a lot of stuff going on. So I had to see that. Right. And, but I also saw that a lot of people that now knew about me were like, what do you got? And I thought, I'm willing and I'll get, I was getting shit for trying again, but I'm like, that's okay. It's okay. I don't, my, my rule with that whole thing now is I don't take part in it and I don't interfere with it. There is a thing about me, I became a symbol for something which is on me because I, I made a trillion carbon copies of myself

• 1:46:01Speaker 01

  and threw them out of a helicopter and said, think whatever you want about me. So when people started to think bad things about me, that's how they use this image and that's, I can't go around the world and fix that. I can't make people that are mad at me not mad at me anymore. I can't like, I can't confront this thing on a global level because I'm not a globe. I'm one guy and trying to live that way was what got me in trouble in the first place and the damage is done and I can't fix that. But what I can do is be a good man to my friends, to my, on a one to one, I can shake one hand at a

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  time. I can be a good father and I can take care of myself. I can constantly try to revise what I think is right and wrong, not depend on it, but just keep asking myself because I thought I was a good guy and a lot of moments where I wasn't and I have to go back and go, that wasn't okay. Hmm. And try to make amends when I get an opportunity. And it was really confusing to do all that. And then, uh, You can cut it out if you don't want it said on the air, but you you you told me about this program. You told me about SLAA and about about a 12 step approach to what I was suffering from. And

• 1:47:20Theo Von?

  Yeah, I was so amazed that you didn't that you didn't have some of the familiarity with it.

• 1:47:24Speaker 01

  I never heard of it and I didn't think it was for me at all. You told me about it and I was like, yeah, that's yeah, that's not for me. And

• 1:47:35Theo Von?

  You've become such a role model to me through that program, man. You've become like somebody that like, when you talk, I listen. When you want to know how I feel, I know you mean it, you know? When you like, um, yeah, man, I mean, you've become like just a real role model to me, you know? You've become somebody that I I aspire to be able to get through some of the problems that I have. Um, because I've seen you get through them, man.

• 1:48:02Speaker 01

  Well, look at that, Theo, because you brought me into this shit. So it's like you, if you if you reach out to somebody that's on the outside and and take their hand and pull them in, they can end up teaching you something. And it's the same for me because like, like when we were, I loved having you as a, I wouldn't have gone into it if I didn't know somebody. And then, by the way, you took me behind this curtain. I was like, I know a bunch of these guys.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  I had no idea, but I remember like, I mean, to get specific for a second, there was one point in my life where during when I got into this program where I was like, in what we call withdrawal. So I was like, this crazy idea to me, don't have sexual release for several months in a row. What like, I mean, since I first fucking came clear, liquid. I've done it every day. And then what that did to the relationships of my life and my inability to feel real feelings. And then the the kind of reckless behavior and the things I I did with other people that came out.

• 1:49:05Speaker 01

  But there was a point where I was like, okay, so just don't like, don't at all. And the thing I loved about it's like a time that's so important.

• 1:49:11Theo Von?

  I remember when you were doing that, I was like dang.

• 1:49:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz I would call you.

• 1:49:15Theo Von?

  This dude's going deep.

• 1:49:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you're like, how long's it been? And I'd say like, two months since I jerked off. And you would go, what's it like out there, man? And when you said that, like, I think about that all the time. What's it like out there, man? It was like, I'm an astronaut who cut from the cord and I'm just out. And that's what it started to feel like. I got out of the gravitational pull. I got out of the cycle. Cuz every time you want something and you get it, you just go back to square one. You keep going back to, to just.

• 1:49:45Theo Von?

  Oh, that's my cycle has just been like, for years, I was texting women, right? And like, let's meet up sometime. And we would never meet up, right? And it got to a certain point in certain years, I didn't even know if we knew who each other were anymore.

• 1:49:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:49:58Theo Von?

  But we would both, I meet almost every day. Should we meet up this week?

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:03Theo Von?

  I mean, for years, but just little moments of trying to get approval, right?

• 1:50:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:50:07Theo Von?

  And then going back to like, and, and the, the group isn't like, everybody's not like, everybody may, maybe people have some perversion stuff, but a lot of it's just like, kind of pornography, intimacy disorders, like inability to connect. It's not like.

• 1:50:21Speaker 01

  Well, it's huge. Uh, when you do the steps, you learn what, how you got to where you are. And you learn what, what in your history made you this way.

• 1:50:29Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:30Speaker 01

  And you get some guidelines for trying to undo it. And the thing about going through withdrawal is that by not pressing the reset button, you go to a new place every day. Every day you don't do it, you're in a new place, you feel new feelings. And I started realizing that my feelings, my actual emotions were coming online for the first time, really in my life. And, uh, and I saw everything really differently. And I saw that everything that had happened with me was cuz of me. And by the way, that's great news cuz that means you could do something about it.

• 1:51:02Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  And, and that everyone else is doing what they have to do. And so I had to start like being a man about it. And I can't like prove that to the world. And I can't like do, you know, a big gesture. I can just do it in my private life. I can talk to you about it, people can see this, whatever. You know, I have mixed feelings about it, scares the shit out of me to talk about it.

• 1:51:22Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:24Speaker 01

  But uh, and that had its own thing. Like I kept thinking, I have to fix this. I have to fix this reputation. I have to go back to where people have at least a neutral feeling about me. And I realized I just can't, I just can't. I, I, and also for some people, the kind of people I would probably would want to know, it's happened naturally.

• 1:51:42Theo Von?

  Right. And dude, I was shocked whenever we would hang out that you thought so many people thought that you were like, like such a pariah or something. I was like, dude, Louis, like, people care, but they don't care that way.

• 1:51:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I'm the last one who gives a shit.

• 1:51:55Theo Von?

  Right. And not even in a bad way, but like, you wouldn't even seem like that bad of a guy. You know what I'm saying? Like.

• 1:52:01Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know. Some, for some people I am.

• 1:52:03Theo Von?

  That's a good point. Sorry.

• 1:52:04Speaker 01

  But, but those, no, it's okay. Those, for, for some people, I'm, uh, there's a, there's a.

• 1:52:08Theo Von?

  Yeah, you're a boogeyman.

• 1:52:09Speaker 01

  And that's the way that is. And it's like, if I did a movie, uh, for Marvel and now I'm on a McDonald's cup you can still get, and I can't really change that. I, I made the movie. I, I did that. So, and maybe it's good for those people in some way. I don't know. But, uh, but, and I don't like the way it affects people in my life and my family. That's, that's hard. That's what I still carry and, uh, and I can't, but I'm responsible for it. That's the thing. And what it helps me, the past, my past and the way it's still present in the air around me helps me because, um, my life was completely unmanageable and I had no power to change it. And now I've changed it hugely. My life is so

• 1:52:49Speaker 01

  different now. I have real love in my life and, uh, but I need to remember like where I was, you know? And I also need to remember what is important, you know? So, so I'm, you know, and I'm writing, I, I, I'm writing novels because I, I don't jerk off every 15 minutes. It's really all it is. And I don't look, I don't look at the phone because for a long time, the phone was a gun pointing directly at my face. So I completely extricated myself from social media and from scrolling. I haven't scrolled in, I mean, it's a, it's a guilty pleasure about once every month I'll go and look. Uh, but the chronic looking I had to, it would have killed me to keep looking at it.

• 1:53:33Speaker 01

  So I got, I'm so lucky what happened to me because of the, what I was ejected out of. And also the culture, since this happened with me in 2017, the world has gone completely insane. And, uh, and I've just been watching, like, I haven't had to comment about it. I haven't had to pick a side.

• 1:53:53Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:53Speaker 01

  I've just been sitting back going like, wow, you guys are, I mean, like I'm on the bottom of the sea, but I look up and I see, you know, like there's a, there's still a full on fucking battleship Royale up there. And once in a, once in a while I see a body, like a blue body float down and I'm like, hey, man, I remember you. And he's like, hey, and we're all collecting and there's more people down here now than there was up there. And it's quiet down here.

• 1:54:18Theo Von?

  Oh.

• 1:54:18Speaker 01

  You know, and there's fish and stuff.

• 1:54:20Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's all right.

• 1:54:22Theo Von?

  Yeah, it is. Dude, it is like, um, I don't know, having a support group and being in a like, being able to go to meetings and share what's going on, listen to somebody else say something that has unlocked something in you that you never could have unlocked.

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:36Theo Von?

  Fuck.

• 1:54:37Speaker 01

  It's huge. It's beautiful.

• 1:54:40Theo Von?

  Yeah. I mean, it, yeah, it's unbelievable. It's like you could spend the rest of your life trying to figure that out. And then suddenly somebody just helped you get to a new place.

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  One thing I love about meetings is like, you know, there's like the structure to these meetings, like in any other 12 step program where you get three minutes to share, right?

• 1:54:57Theo Von?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:54:57Speaker 01

  And the regiment of that, it's like perfect. It's kind of like the way baseball is perfect. Like someone figured out just the right amount of feet to make the, you know, that, that, that the throw to first is always close.

• 1:55:08Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:10Speaker 01

  12 step meetings have like this perfect, this three minutes and there's a spiritual timekeeper, a guy who just says at, when you're one minute away from finishing.

• 1:55:19Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:19Speaker 01

  It says one minute and you acknowledge it, you know, thank you, one minute, right? There's that thing, but in two minutes you can get really lost into what a guy is saying. And you get to have this moment where like a guy's going like, you know, I keep a lighter fluid under my pillow because of the days that my father used to come to my room and I'd want to burn him alive. Thank you, one minute. And I.

• 1:55:44Speaker 01

  These little interruptions and because it reminds you, yeah, you're in your shit, but

• 1:55:49Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:55:49Speaker 01

  Wrap it up. There's other guys waiting to talk and the world's going around and it's, you know, that was a long time ago, man. Get over it. Glad you're sharing it, but you only got three minutes.

• 1:56:00Theo Von?

  Yeah, dude. It's Monday, brother.

• 1:56:02Speaker 01

  Yes, Monday. Yeah.

• 1:56:04Theo Von?

  That sounds like a fucking Thursday share.

• 1:56:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I need to check in some shit about what I did today, you know?

• 1:56:10Theo Von?

  Oh dude, yeah. Even things like, I mean, I was looking at pornography the other day just being able to like, text somebody and say that to them, you know, just like, and then just like, how many times do I want to go back to this feeling of after I look at pornography, I just feel like empty. You know, or I just don't feel like myself the next day. That's been the biggest thing that helped change it for me is like, noticing that like the next day I don't feel like myself. I feel like I'm a little scattered. I feel like I still need to recover from something. I still need to like, like put my aura back together a little bit.

• 1:56:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you ran away into pornography. So when you, when you, you feel, you get, it's like you froze yourself.

• 1:56:44Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:44Speaker 01

  And the next day you start to thaw and that's uncomfortable. It's like feeling your leg coming back to, you know, after falling asleep.

• 1:56:51Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:51Speaker 01

  It's, it's tingles and it's bad. It's a bad feeling. You want to be in one or the other, you know? So it is, it's hard. The hard thing about being a recovery from addiction, something like what, what, what we have, is that you can look at something like pornography, but it's, you're aware now. So you know.

• 1:57:08Theo Von?

  There's a cost to it.

• 1:57:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, there's a cost, but that's, but thank God, because you get so much of life back. And being able to tell another guy like I'm, I'm doing this. Because there's a lot of shame involved with sex and love, like all this kind of thing. It's, when you tell somebody and I'm an alcoholic, people have a lot of sympathy for that.

• 1:57:26Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:27Speaker 01

  This one's a little tougher. So you really need the group because these are a bunch of guys who get it. And so when you tell them. I'm struggling not to do this. The genius of that is just that someone else knows it now.

• 1:57:40Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:57:41Speaker 01

  That it's too much for you to carry. At some point, for anybody who's an addict or not, life got to be too much to handle. It just was overwhelming. So you found a way to shift away from it. And thank God you did. Like, thank God I had that when I was a kid. I don't think I could have handled life without this thing that was right there to soothe me.

• 1:58:02Theo Von?

  Yeah, if I didn't have that thing, I mean, I found pornography and then I would, when I would get home, I would go, I would look at pornography and stuff like that. Cause it was a way to make myself feel good. It was like, I felt so horrible, you know? And I didn't even know I felt so horrible about myself. I just felt like a fucking cavern, you know? I felt like, I mean, I felt embarrassed, like, I didn't even want to impose myself on people because I didn't, I don't know, I just, nobody had time for me, right? And so it made me think that I wasn't worth people's time. So I always just felt like I just couldn't say what I needed to say. I just didn't want to waste your time. I didn't want to waste your time.

• 1:58:40Speaker 01

  I remember that feeling.

• 1:58:40Theo Von?

  Cause you would see that I was a waste. Like,

• 1:58:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:43Theo Von?

  if I could just.

• 1:58:44Speaker 01

  How old were you?

• 1:58:45Theo Von?

  Probably ten, eleven.

• 1:58:46Speaker 01

  Imagine a ten year old kid, like, look at a ten year old kid's face and imagine that he feels like a cavern inside. That's a hard thing to carry. And so you take on this thing that helps you just simplify life.

• 1:58:59Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:58:59Speaker 01

  I do this, I, I search, I search, I push, I push, I get to ecstasy. I'm calm.

• 1:59:06Theo Von?

  Right. It's homeostasis, it regulates me.

• 1:59:08Speaker 01

  It's just regulating.

• 1:59:09Theo Von?

  Right.

• 1:59:09Speaker 01

  And when you, if you're exposed to sex early in life, which I was, in a way that was, nah, you get, that's it, that's it, that's what you got. And then later in life, when your feelings are supposed to be developing, they're, they're still under this muffled thing. So they're not developing properly and you, and you're ashamed of what you're doing.

• 1:59:28Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:29Speaker 01

  But when you, the thing about a fellowship, it's just so simple. It's not God, it's not something that's better than you. It's a bunch of guys who just have the same problem and you're able to just go, you know, I'm having this problem. They go, yeah, I get it. They don't give you a solution. They just go, I know it too now. And you go like, now I got two souls to carry this problem and I'm there for him when he needs that. Yeah. And that just makes it a tiny bit easier so that you can go to the alternative, which is why do I do this thing? It's because I feel like a cavern. And the detaching from the behavior and stopping the thing I couldn't stop doing, gave me the opportunity to go, what's in that cave? What's in that?

• 2:00:12Speaker 01

  Is there something in that that's worthwhile? Is it, is it, how bad is it? What's wrong with the cave? Is it that I'm alone in there? Am I alone in there? It gave me the courage to sit in the cave alone and take a look around and go like, you know, with a flashlight, man, there's like crystals on the roof. It's fucking cool in here, you know? How did I get in here? There is a, there's a little, there's a little door. Where does that go? And starting to really be okay with, I'm just here. I'm in here. And then a feeling comes, the, the kind of things I used to run from, you know, like deep sadness, I miss my mom, something like that.

• 2:00:57Speaker 01

  I want to just have it. I just want to have it now. I just want to have it. And I've got a new habit, which is that when I get that huh, that used to lead to an addictive moment, when I get that ah, I know that if I pull away from it, it gets worse. It actually only hurts if I pull away. But if I get up to it and I go, what do you got? And I see colors and I see beautiful things, you know?

• 2:01:22Speaker 01

  And that's the potential is to, is to

• 2:01:26Speaker 01

  welcome every feeling and then you don't want out and I love my life so much now that the last thing I want to do is, is, is gray it out with

• 2:01:35Theo Von?

  I know.

• 2:01:36Speaker 01

  Uh, with a kind of chronic sexual half release fake thing. Watching a sad person on a video in a weirdly lit room and I'm, I'm like in it.

• 2:01:47Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:48Speaker 01

  I just don't.

• 2:01:49Theo Von?

  Come on buddy and I don't even know who I'm cheering for sometimes in pornography.

• 2:01:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:52Theo Von?

  That's crazy.

• 2:01:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Which team are you on? Yeah.

• 2:01:55Theo Von?

  Yeah. And you're like, ah, tie. Let's just have a tie.

• 2:01:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:58Theo Von?

  Um, but oh dude, yeah, it's like, uh, oh, that sedative. And it was just a full body sedative, but yeah, I would, um,

• 2:02:09Theo Von?

  yeah, I didn't have, it, it, it, it marred really my ability to make a lot of connections because like I'll even notice still in my life and I still have, I still need to go through my steps again. I need to check in with my sponsor today, but, um, like if I'm, if I'm face to face with a woman and they say something nice about me, I can't stay there for a second.

• 2:02:33Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:02:34Theo Von?

  I cannot like even saw a woman looking at me really, I just, I can't, I just have.

• 2:02:39Speaker 01

  What happens? What's, what makes you run away from it?

• 2:02:42Theo Von?

  It's like, I, inside of me, it feels fucking like, it almost feels like a dirty electricity.

• 2:02:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:50Theo Von?

  Comes inside of me. That's, or just like shows up at the front of me.

• 2:02:54Speaker 01

  It's a power. It's a weird electronic. It really is like touching a third rail.

• 2:02:58Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:59Speaker 01

  Love and sex are both extremely powerful and they ain't all good. It's what I learned after like months of not jerking off. And then I decided, I talked to my sponsors, like it's time to try.

• 2:03:11Theo Von?

  Oh yeah. I remember that big weekend.

• 2:03:15Theo Von?

  We were all excited. I think I bought, I bought one of those Amish fireplaces. It's like I just feel some of the distant Yeah. out there. But weren't you out of town? Weren't you?

• 2:03:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Some, somebody, you had to be.

• 2:03:24Theo Von?

  You were up in New York somewhere, weren't you?

• 2:03:25Speaker 01

  You had to be in the totality of my first jerk off. Like you had to be in that one stripe. That's right. In the island. Um, I was in, I was, I was out in Shelter Island and, um, And I said, okay, you're gonna visit this and you're not doing this for pleasure. You're doing this to visit. You're gonna go to the country you left.

• 2:03:46Speaker 01

  And I did it and it was like an electrical shock. It wasn't like this pure pleasure and I realized that's what it's always been like. But I've been putting like wet towels and asbestos and shit over my whole life. So that I could barely feel it. So I had to really, really rub hard and with the most penetrating fucked up thoughts in order to find it. And I've been doing it since I was a kid and I'm like, I can't believe I felt that as a kid, as a child. Wow. That's crazy because I really felt it's raw strength again. And I said, I don't, my, my little conversation I have in my head with this presence I call Wally. It's just my own thing. And I said, I don't, after I did it, after I came, I said,

• 2:04:29Speaker 01

  that's no joke. And while I said, no, it's not. And I said, I think I need some rules. I should not go there alone very often. And I should never go there without, with somebody who I don't trust. And while he says, that sounds smart kid. And that's what I've been living by. I've been respecting sex as a very hot fire. That's beyond electricity. Your feelings are, your feelings are fires that you can sit by and warm yourself. But sex is electricity that you have to deal with, with real discipline and thoughtfulness. And, and so is love because that's a two way thing. You've got somebody else involved.

• 2:05:12Speaker 01

  And the other thing that the steps did was looking at my life, looking at, really looking at it. And I was writing down my history of my sex life, you know, from, it was the first assignment I was given. And I got to like, I've blown up my life like twice really. And the first time I blew up my life, I looked at that moment, I was writing it. And I yelled onto the paper, I said, stop to myself, you gotta stop. And I felt this huge remorse because I realized I can't hear it. He can't hear it. That happened. I can't change it. But then I heard a voice say, please stop. And I realized it's my future self.

• 2:05:57Speaker 01

  Whose life kept getting wrecked. And he says, please stop. And I'm like, I can hear him. I can fucking hear that guy. And I can actually, I'm in this moment. But I thought, yeah, but I can't. I'm not strong enough. And I asked the universe to, I just said, somebody fucking help me because I want to live. I want to really live my life. And that was a big moment for me.

• 2:06:26Theo Von?

  So. That's powerful.

• 2:06:27Speaker 01

  I can hear that guy now saying, thank you, dude. And please keep it going because you can still fuck it up. Like you, you have to keep going in this better direction. So. That's all just from this stupid 12 step thing that you get. It's like a DMV fill out thing.

• 2:06:41Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:42Speaker 01

  Anybody can do it.

• 2:06:43Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:43Speaker 01

  When you go to these SLA meetings, they're like on Zoom and stuff. There's like a hundred dudes on every meeting.

• 2:06:49Theo Von?

  Yep.

• 2:06:50Speaker 01

  It's like, and a lot of it is young guys in like their twenties, some are nineteen, who can't, who are addicted to porn.

• 2:06:59Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:59Speaker 01

  Because they were born into a world where they're being encouraged to go to their phone for love and acceptance and power and money. And that's where they find sex and it's all addictive. They've turned every human endeavor into an addictive act. And these kids are so overwhelmed by it, everything, the most important ones.

• 2:07:18Theo Von?

  Well, one of some of the things that I've learned are, I mean, well, the crazy part is, so say I'm sitting there, I'm jerking off and then there's some, just because I'm jerking off on my phone, some county out in Iowa is, they're losing water because they're having to run a data center.

• 2:07:38Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:07:38Theo Von?

  That's flaring up a little icon.

• 2:07:40Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:07:41Theo Von?

  So now some kid can't even take a hot shower because some other.

• 2:07:45Speaker 01

  Because you just need a little.

• 2:07:46Theo Von?

  Forty year old kid won't stop jerking off somewhere in the distance. Um, oh, it's unbelievable. I mean, and here's one of the crazy things that we had a lady that came on. Who who told us about Pornhub and a lot of these sites? A lot of the content on there isn't even consensual.

• 2:08:03Speaker 01

  Right, of course.

• 2:08:03Theo Von?

  So now you start to realize, oh, I'm jerking off to crime.

• 2:08:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:08:08Theo Von?

  I'm jerking off to possible sexual crime. Like they found like 70% of it was non-consensual. This lady, Lila Mickelwate is her name. She came on, it was fascinating to learn about it.

• 2:08:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, and if you're jerking off to anything on that site, you're supporting that. Even if even if the thing you're watching isn't is consensual, it's it's all the money's going into the same pot. It's financing this shit that's not consensual.

• 2:08:31Theo Von?

  And and then also, one great thing about being in the program, and I've never really talked about it this. I've talked about it with one other comedian on here, actually. Is that there's we have a buddy in the program named Steve, and he's awesome. And he runs a program called Valor. And this isn't really an advertisement for it, but

• 2:08:50Theo Von?

  we we do free ads for the Valor on the on the podcast. And and it's a lot of young dudes in there and, you know, and I'm in some of the meetings. And it's a lot of dudes in there who are just going to who are getting help.

• 2:09:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it's really hard to unlearn this shit. And it and it does make you it gets dangerous because it does make you an unthoughtful person. That's the way I got in the trouble that I got into because I wasn't stopping and thinking. I was like so blinded by what I wanted that I didn't. And I would just get this basic feeling of like, this is OK. I would tell myself that. But I wasn't stopping and thinking. And I I I just have so many, you know, like when you're in a if you have a powerboat and you're pulling water skiers or people on a tube, that kind of boat has a elaborate system of ignition. You know what I mean? So that you don't chew somebody up with the propeller. So like when someone's in the water, you turn the ignition off.

• 2:09:43Speaker 01

  And when you turn the ignition on, it beeps really loud before you start the motor. And that's before you go in gear. You have all these movements before you're harming. And that gives everyone a chance. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 2:09:55Theo Von?

  Right.

• 2:09:55Speaker 01

  So I got all these beeps and triggers in my life now. Like especially if I'm looking at a moment of of ecstasy. If I'm looking at something that's going to make me feel euphoric, I go, you might be being selfish right now. Like, that's an automatic thought to me now. Like, you might who's who is someone paying for this? Is someone looking like they're OK when they're not? Is somebody saying yes when it was tough for them to get there? Can you just wait a second? Can you cool off? Can you take a breath? Cause you might be going too fast. You might be so desperate to get this moment that's gonna give you that assuagement, that kinda like I'm okay feeling? That you're not thinking, you're not in, you're not in it. You're not in the room with somebody. You're not in the room with yourself even.

• 2:10:39Speaker 01

  You're not, you're hurting yourself. You're using yourself. Oh, yeah. So, that's new for me. That's new and, and, and it's become an installed part of me. So, I just move slower. And, uh, that life has a speed. And if you can get on the same track with it, you're okay. Like, the thing I get from like, I, every morning I look at the sky. I just look at the sky and, and the world and nature. And I just, the, the, the, there, there is a, a message I keep getting, which is that you're meant to be here. You're designed to be here. You don't even have to look at it as like some conscious being made you. It's just that you're of this earth a, at this time. Yeah. So, chances are you match.

• 2:11:23Speaker 01

  If you're willing to be in it, the way, as long as you're willing to be in reality, the way things really are, accepting what's not there. And because we're human, going for it a little, trying a little, trying to make things happen. I think that the universe, when we fuck around to find out, goes like, huh. Nice. Yeah. Nice. I like this motherfucker. Yeah. And so, there's the little, there's an edge there that you wanna be at. Where you're just like, I'm here, which means I'm, I belong here. And I'll, everything that happens will basically be okay with me if I really take it in as reality. And I don't try to just like think my way out of it. But, I'm a clever little fucking monkey and I wanna try some shit too, you know? And it means I'll fall. Yeah. You know?

• 2:12:06Speaker 01

  Try, try to, try to, try only as high as the fall won't break you. When you get up really, really crazy high in life. You're too high. You're Madison Square Garden and all this kinda crazy shit that I was doing. It's like, the fall will kill you. And, uh. Cause it's not a human height. It's not human. And there's no oxygen up there. And there's no drag on your wings and it's lonely. And it doesn't have, it, it, it's not affected by your feelings anymore. It's just this other thing. But.

• 2:12:38Speaker 01

  When I went back to work and I was like, I'm doing clubs again. How's that gonna feel? And I'm sitting in the Funny Bone in St. Louis and the Coke, the machine that sends Coke to the bar is is next to my head and I'm sitting there. And there's the smell of chicken wings and pizza and I'm doing retail comedy when, you know? I was happy as fuck. I was so happy to be telling the jokes to people whose faces I could see. And whose admission price is, is, they're giving that to me as a, as a gift and they're going home happy. And I got back to that level of comedy and it was really beautiful. That's where I live now. I mean, I do the theaters because I'm still a fucking pig. I still want, I still like it, but.

• 2:13:22Theo Von?

  Well, some of them are nice too.

• 2:13:24Speaker 01

  Some of them are nice. The Ryman in.

• 2:13:25Theo Von?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:13:26Speaker 01

  Nashville, beautiful.

• 2:13:27Theo Von?

  I'm excited to come over there. Well, dude, I just knew I came over to your place and you were making art and you were sculpting and sending me stuff. And then you sat me down one time with a friend when I was over there and she had made something and you were reviewing it. Or she was reviewing a project you had made. It was an anim, it was like a, some type of a cartoon, I believe. It was a silent film.

• 2:13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:47Theo Von?

  Maybe?

• 2:13:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a movie that I was starting to make and we were making an animatic with charcoal.

• 2:13:52Theo Von?

  Yeah, it was just fascinating. Like, oh, this dude is a fucking artist, man. And that's when I realized, oh, this guy really like, he likes being an artist, you know?

• 2:14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it just feels good. It's just fun.

• 2:14:03Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:04Speaker 01

  And if you can share this stuff, it's great.

• 2:14:06Theo Von?

  And it was just, yeah, it was, it was great. And then you said this and I was like, wow, this dude's really in his spot. But yeah, I agree, man. Having that, like, having that, that like need for attention from women. Or having, watching pornography or watching porno and stuff, it's taken a lot of things, moments in my life. You know, I was on, one time I was on a vacation and with, with, with my girlfriend, instead of like spending time, I was like, like texting some other woman or I was like watching porn. And it took us out of this great weekend where we're supposed to, and it's like, and that call, it's like. You know, I can never like get that right in a way, you know?

• 2:14:46Speaker 01

  Well, because but it's it's understandable because you have that feeling that if you're with somebody, you're too much for them, you're scared to be alone with her.

• 2:14:54Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:55Speaker 01

  So you're finding a way, you're finding a way to not be in the room.

• 2:14:58Theo Von?

  Yeah, and it's just that old pattern, though, that if I don't try and get it under control, if I don't try to do better, and I think even this year's been tough for me. It's just like, um, yeah, I just feel like work's gotten busy and it just makes me scared kind of a little bit, and it's like, you know, and then popularity makes you scared, and that's kind of scary.

• 2:15:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it should be scary.

• 2:15:19Theo Von?

  And then you're just like, looking at yourself, you know, it's like, what am I even? You, you're like, I can't even feel like I can't even, the controls feel far from my hands sometimes. Not, not like I'm doing crazy stuff or anything, but just like, you know, I just, I don't know.

• 2:15:35Speaker 01

  No, it's, it is scary and it should be. That's the thing is, it's like another electricity, you got to respect it. It's not, it's not a small, a small thing being famous, and it can go bad. And it's, it's your fault because you got into it.

• 2:15:49Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:49Speaker 01

  But that's, I don't know, it's also a human thing to want to share your work and want to be out there, you know, but once, when, when it goes bad, you get in this predicament of like, I want to go to each person's house and tell them what really happened and what, you know, the little things that are, that aren't in the way that's, you know, and that's just never going to happen.

• 2:16:05Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:05Speaker 01

  And at this point with all, to me, I just want to get, I just, I just want to live and I want to, like, I haven't talked about this, the way I'm talking about it to you.

• 2:16:14Theo Von?

  We can take it out if you want, Louis.

• 2:16:16Speaker 01

  It's scary, we'll talk about it after.

• 2:16:17Theo Von?

  Okay.

• 2:16:19Speaker 01

  But there's so many times where I just want to come out and tell people like, I'm fucking sorry, I'm really sorry I hurt people. And I feel, I've felt like in the way that was so hard to take all of that at once, that much anger at once, it's like, I just don't have a sorry that covers it. And so, and I don't have only one feeling, sorry's not the only feeling I have.

• 2:16:44Speaker 01

  And so I don't want to say something and I'm scared of the way that I anything I say can be used by other people. There's all kinds of fears that come up and I'm very raw in that space.

• 2:16:56Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:58Speaker 01

  But that's all because I made this, I'm making these choices to stay in this and it's because I love the work and I want to share it. So I guess like I really wish there was like I could have a simple kind of watershed where I can say just yes to everything that happened and I'm sorry, I really am. And I'm just trying to do better and I don't think I can prove that to everybody because it's a private thing. It's a one to one man thing. It's not a famous guy act.

• 2:17:26Theo Von?

  Right.

• 2:17:26Speaker 01

  And but I got work that I want to share with people. I have work that I think is worthy and there I'm like, if you don't like it, you don't like it. That's so, that's always okay with me. When I'm on stage and I'm talking and people don't, aren't accepting it like, oh, that's okay. That's

• 2:17:41Theo Von?

  Yeah, that's fine. That's fair.

• 2:17:42Speaker 01

  Fair enough, man. Um, and I don't, nobody owes me nothing. I'll, I'll just, I'm trying. We'll see what happens.

• 2:17:49Theo Von?

  Dude, I'm kind of like in a weird way. Like I know this sounds maybe crazy to say. It's almost like, well, I think so many of us probably needed, we needed a guy like you to have some of the same problem because you have such an ability to look at things and kind of like examiner. And it's like, we needed an astronaut. Like, I know it sounds crazy, but it's like, we needed like a Neil Armstrong like you.

• 2:18:13Speaker 01

  Well, you know, I felt that

• 2:18:14Theo Von?

  Walk out there and report what you're feeling under your feet because it's like so many people are struggling and you say things, dude, that like, I mean, the rest of us just cannot put it into words and it's just such a gift that you have, you know?

• 2:18:26Speaker 01

  Well, it's, it's been a little bit painful because

• 2:18:28Theo Von?

  I know it has.

• 2:18:29Speaker 01

  Well, because, because, uh, I felt that when it happened, like, hey, this is an opportunity. I can tell people what this is like and I can really, I can, I can come back with something great to say, but I just, I'm not, I just couldn't. Like I just couldn't do it. I was too scared and I was too fighting for my life. And also worried about other people in my life. Everything I say affects people that love me.

• 2:18:50Theo Von?

  I know that.

• 2:18:51Speaker 01

  And people that I'm related to and I, I can't just decide like what's going to fix it. And also I'm completely confused by it. I still live with this thing every day. It's still part of my everyday life. It still imposes limits on me every day.

• 2:19:11Speaker 01

  And I still don't know what to do about it. I really don't. It's really confusing. But so I wish I could feel like I'm like a shitty astronaut. I'm like an astronaut who's not they sent the I'm I'm what's his name, Don Knotts.

• 2:19:29Speaker 01

  In that whatever he I think he did an astronaut one, right?

• 2:19:31Theo Von?

  If he did, he should.

• 2:19:32Speaker 01

  I think, yeah, there it is. Yeah, the reluctant astronaut. That's me. Yeah, it's no good.

• 2:19:40Speaker 01

  I'm Gus Grissom. I blew the hatch and I just was I was just too weak, man. And I flailed through it, you know, I said some things out of confused anger because I am who I am on stage. I'm pretty raw up there, you know, so I'm not like vetting what I say. I'm not careful about it.

• 2:20:00Theo Von?

  You know, but you you may be the reluctant astronaut, but I think it's like what we all are. It's like we all just want to try and like figure out whatever the true is stuff that's going on inside of us.

• 2:20:09Speaker 01

  That's right. And

• 2:20:10Theo Von?

  And that's the part that I think you report back like I'm just saying like

• 2:20:13Speaker 01

  Well, life will you will never choose the hard road for yourself, never. And you're the choices you make in life are a combination of like fear. You do things because of what you're afraid of to avoid things you're afraid of most things in life. You work for financial success because you're afraid of being poor more than anything else. And you work towards acceptance because you're afraid of being alone.

• 2:20:41Theo Von?

  Yeah, and sometimes you look at pornography, you do stuff like that because you're afraid of going in and sitting with talking with your spouse or your girlfriend.

• 2:20:47Speaker 01

  Just talking.

• 2:20:47Theo Von?

  About things that are scary to you.

• 2:20:49Speaker 01

  That's right. So that's how life, that's how a person and it's understandable. It's like people just do their best.

• 2:20:54Theo Von?

  Hundred percent.

• 2:20:55Speaker 01

  But when life throws a bomb in the middle of your of your life and and and you survive it, you are given this beautiful opportunity to go like to see everything from another angle and go like, what is what is even breathing? Like, what is even like, why do I put a sock on? Like, what am I doing here? And it breaks everything that takes everything away and it goes start again. And you look back at your life and you go, that was a fucking mess. And you're met with real remorse about your mistakes. You don't have time to regret when you're living life. But when it's cut off and you just go, wow, that was fucked up.

• 2:21:36Speaker 01

  And I can't even fully fix it for some people. I just can't. I just, what do I do now? Put a sock on. Maybe another sock. Maybe on the same foot. Maybe two socks on one foot. What's wrong with that? And you, you get, I got my sense of humor back that way. So it's just like, this is all pretty silly. It's all pretty fucking silly in a sense. Don't you dare take life seriously is like one of my big things. Even as a comedian, you sort of think I'm a great comedian. Yeah, lighten up, buddy. You know what I mean? And the shows I've been doing on the road now are just, I called the show ridiculous because it's back to, I just want to be, I just want to surprise people with what I'm saying.

• 2:22:18Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:18Speaker 01

  And I just want to be a bit of an asshole for a little, for an hour. It's just fun. But also just seeing that, I, I don't think I would have seen these things if life didn't force me to.

• 2:22:33Speaker 01

  So it's good. It's good. Like right now for me, life is just so fucking good. Way better than it was before.

• 2:22:40Theo Von?

  Would it be able to live in such fucking, I mean, just to be able to like, really face some real challenges in your life? That's pretty fucking crazy.

• 2:22:49Speaker 01

  I mean, you walk away going like, I can do that.

• 2:22:52Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:52Speaker 01

  And, and it's, and what happened that was terrible was okay. And it wasn't all terrible. Some of it was so beautiful. Because when you're exposed to the hardest part of life, you're also exposed to the most wonderful. Like I was looking the other day, I don't know why this is, but the word compass and the word compassion, like they share the first, what, seven letters? I don't know why that is.

• 2:23:19Speaker 01

  But you get some direction out of life, but you only find real compassion by seeing real pain. And you go, oh, wow, life is really tough, you know? And then that, that's all you need. All you need is to understand how much life can hurt.

• 2:23:35Speaker 01

  Cause it's,

• 2:23:38Speaker 01

  well, I don't know, sort of spinning out with what I'm saying, but it's, it's, uh, yeah, life is a.

• 2:23:48Speaker 01

  Better now. And I also, what's happened to me can be an example for other people in like, in fellowship. When, when I go to a meeting in person and I, and there's a guy who's really hurting, his life's fucked up, and I approach him and I go, hey, you should, and he's not sure about being in, in this program. And, and he goes, oh, I ruined my life. And I go, do you know who I am?

• 2:24:11Speaker 01

  And he goes, yeah. And I go, I'm doing pretty good, buddy.

• 2:24:15Speaker 01

  And the fact that my wreckage can be a mountain for folks to lean on, take a little load off, that's a beautiful gift. Um, you know?

• 2:24:25Theo Von?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:27Theo Von?

  Well, it's been awesome, man. It's so funny. I never really got to know you as a comedian, and I got to know you on stage, but I've gotten to know you, I feel like, as a man.

• 2:24:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:34Theo Von?

  You know?

• 2:24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're my brother.

• 2:24:35Theo Von?

  Yeah. I got to know you just by being kind and being cool. And yeah, man, I just, yeah, I hope one day I have a cool kid like you, man, that's creative and fun and brave and fucking weird. And, you know, not afraid to hide somewhere and fucking jerk off a little, but

• 2:24:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:52Theo Von?

  also be fucking cool.

• 2:24:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Open up. Stay open.

• 2:24:56Theo Von?

  Yeah. So I hope that one day I have a cool kid like you. Um, and yeah, I just feel really proud that, that, uh, I just feel like, yeah, thank you for being a role model to me, man.

• 2:25:07Speaker 01

  Same, Theo.

• 2:25:08Theo Von?

  You do a good job of that, and I think you should know that, you know?

• 2:25:11Speaker 01

  Thanks, bro.

• 2:25:12Theo Von?

  That you do a really good job of that of being important to people, Louis, and it's definitely been that for me. So thank you.

• 2:25:18Speaker 01

  Thanks, bro.

• 2:25:19Theo Von?

  Yeah. I think you're a brave dude. And, uh, yeah, man, I'm excited to see you guys tonight. So get the fuck out of here. Shit's getting fucking gay, dude. But this book is great.

• 2:25:30Speaker 01

  Coming out of your eyes. There's jizz coming out. Cause it's backing up. That's where the gay jizz comes out the eyes.

• 2:25:36Theo Von?

  Oh, God.

• 2:25:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's true. That's true.

• 2:25:40Theo Von?

  Oh, I know it is.

• 2:25:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:42Theo Von?

  Oh, I've given, I did a four-part series on it online. Um, Ingram is great. It's kind of, it's like, uh, it's a new kind of Tom Sawyer, but it's just good, it's written well. It's not like, oh, this is a, a big name writing a book, and that's why it's gonna be good. This book is good if anybody wrote it. It's magnificent. And I'm so glad that you finally get to a place in your life where you feel, um, you have the time and the ability, uh, to make such magic like this, man.

• 2:26:09Speaker 01

  Thanks, bro.

• 2:26:09Theo Von?

  It's really cool.

• 2:26:11Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:26:11Theo Von?

  Um, all right, Louis CK, thank you so much, bro.

• 2:26:14Speaker 01

  Thank you, Theo.

• 2:26:16Speaker 03

  Now I'm just floating on the breeze And I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones

• 2:26:37Speaker 03

  But it's gonna take

• 2:26:42Theo Von?

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