#212 Katarina Szulc - Inside the Cartels' Secret Smuggling Operation in Port of Vancouver

Katarina Szulc is an investigative journalist and the host of Borderland: Dispatches, a show delivering raw, on-the-ground reporting from the front lines of Mexico’s cartel war. With a sharp lens on organized crime, corruption, and cross-border conflict, she brings listeners real-time snapshots of a rapidly evolving crisis that’s reshaping both Mexico and the United States. Reporting from across North America—Mexico, the U. S., and Canada—she’s known for her fearless fieldwork, unflinching interviews, and a relentless drive to uncover the stories that others won’t touch. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: ⁠https://www.americanfinancing.net/srs⁠ nmls 182334, ⁠nmlsconsumeraccess.org⁠ ⁠https://www.tryarmra.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://www.betterhelp.com/srs⁠ This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp — give online therapy a try at ⁠betterhelp.com/srs⁠ and get on your way to being your best self. ⁠https://www.shawnlikesgold.com⁠ ⁠https://www.drinkhoist.com⁠ - USE CODE SRS ⁠https://www.patriotmobile.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://www.rocketmoney.com/srs Katarina Szulc Links: X - https://x.com/KatarinaSzulc IG - https://www.instagram.com/katarinaszulc Substack - https://katarinaszulc.substack.com/ YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@katarinaszulc Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. For 125 years, Nordstrom has been part of your story. The stylist who found the perfect outfit for your big interview. The first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old. The tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe. These are the moments that make Nordstrom Nordstrom. Big or small, we're here for all of it. Celebrating 125 years with new moments still add. Discover it all in Nordstrom stores and at nordstrom.com.

• 1:05Shawn Ryan?

  Katerina Schulz.

• 1:06Speaker 03

  Sean Ryan.

• 1:07Shawn Ryan?

  Welcome to the show.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:10Shawn Ryan?

  Man, you are getting some, like, amazing content down there with the cartels and reporting on all that stuff. So, I can't remember how I found you. I think it was my producer, Jeremy.

• 1:21Speaker 03

  I'm curious to know what it was that sparked your guys' interest.

• 1:24Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I think, I think my producer found you. And so, anyways, we've been tracking you probably for six months, maybe.

• 1:31Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:31Shawn Ryan?

  But, uh, love your work.

• 1:33Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:34Shawn Ryan?

  How do you get, before we get into the interview, how do you get that much access?

• 1:39Speaker 03

  Everyone, this is my most asked question. And there are a few things that I can attribute it to. First, I...

• 1:51Speaker 03

  I nerd out about this. I've always been interested since a kid and we'll get into that. Um, in organized crime and international conflict. And so I try to know about it as much as I can. And I think people recognize that. Second, I don't judge. So I have my own, you know, morals and ethics and and personal values. But I never let that come across with the people I'm speaking to, whether they're the good guys, the bad guys, or somewhere in between or undecided. And I just want to hear everyone's story. I just want to know what's going on.

• 2:32Speaker 03

  I want to give people a voice. I feel like they don't have one. And then also, uh, I'm a 24 year old girl from Canada.

• 2:41Shawn Ryan?

  You're only 24?

• 2:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:44Shawn Ryan?

  Oh my gosh.

• 2:45Speaker 03

  I know, I look a lot older. But, uh, I'm 24 year old girl from Canada who wants to talk about. What was your reaction to Trump saying that you and your colleagues are terrorists? I'm just curious to know. And a lot of these guys will open up. Keep in mind, I'm typically always and only working with men. So organized crime is do- dominated by men. And so when I go in, uh, it's very.

• 3:17Speaker 03

  Unalarming. I mean, I I don't give off the vibe that I'm going to. Kill you or rat on you or have some sort of hidden agenda. I just like to hear the stories. I'm genuinely interested and I like to tell them. In the most unbiased way possible, the most honest way. And so that has allowed me to gain the trust of a lot of people. Who have a lot of high level information and are willing to share it with me and I've. You know, I've put my work in for that because. I've spoken to quite a few people over the course of my career who. Took a risk in sharing information with me, reaching out to me or speaking to me or meeting with me. And I never have ever let their identities been known.

• 4:00Speaker 03

  Or given that information to someone who could put their situation at risk. So.

• 4:08Speaker 03

  That's how I think I I get access and I'm I'm a pusher. I attack.

• 4:12Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, where did you start, though? Why do you think they? Why do you think they give you access? There's a lot of people that'll go down there and listen to what they have to say. And plus, all those journalists are getting killed down there. I don't know if they're still getting killed. A couple of years ago, they were. They were murdering journalists left and right.

• 4:29Speaker 03

  Mexico actually is like one of the top countries for the most murdered journalists. And female journalists.

• 4:35Shawn Ryan?

  There you go.

• 4:36Speaker 03

  Just check the box.

• 4:38Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  Um.

• 4:41Speaker 03

  Why me? I mean, I I push for it. I'm like, let me talk to you. And if they say no, I go and ask someone else or I ask differently. I don't really take no for an answer. And I convince them why I'm the right person that they can share this information with or take me along. Whether that's law enforcement or it's organized crime people.

• 4:59Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think they want to get any of the information out to begin with?

• 5:04Speaker 03

  It's a way to flaunt their their power, flex their muscles. Show people, look, I'm doing. All of this crime. I basically run Mexico. I run the drug trade. And I'm committing violent acts in broad daylight, gruesomely. And I'm. Giving this information to the press. And. Catch me if you can.

• 5:30Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  That's certainly what it is. I think it's an ego thing, for sure. It's a flex, 100%. Uh, for some people. It's. Also, kind of like, uh. Media relations. They put this message out there, uh, an adversary hears or sees it. And they're sending a message.

• 5:49Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha.

• 5:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:50Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha. Well, let's get into the interview. Here we go. So. Katerina Schultz, a fearless investigative journalist who's gone where few dare. Diving headfirst into the heart of Mexico's cartel strongholds like Sinaloa and Jalisco. To expose the brutality, reality. Excuse me, to expose the brutal reality of organized crime, a bilingual, boots-on-the-ground reporter, tracking the cartel empire. And its influence on North America, former traditional journalist. Who realized you needed to get out of the newsroom to find out what's really happening. And you're the author of your popular sub stack, Keep People Informed. On all things cartel related, so.

• 6:35Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for coming in here. And um, we got a whole slew of topics to cover. But you had mentioned something, you had mentioned you went down, I don't know if it was uh, really happened, but you said you went down to the cartels, some of the cartel members and asked what they thought about Trump, leave it alone, terrorist organizations. What was their response to that?

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I went uh, to a border region where some members of organized crime spoke with me, um, and they're responsible for

• 7:10Speaker 03

  a significant amount of, of the trafficking and, and human smuggling operations. And this was right after Trump had officially declared them FTOs, because there was a lot of rhetoric around this previously, and even Texas Governor Greg Abbott had previously declared them FTOs. But now, this was real, and this, I had assumed was going to invoke a lot of fear, especially when it came to the financial pipelines. Because that's what this act really attacks, is the cartel's finances. And that's so much worse than, than putting a bounty on their family members, or

• 7:51Speaker 03

  uh, stopping the flow of drugs. Like for them, it's the money, freezing financial assets, uh, shutting down their shell companies, whatever it is. And so, I wanted to know, because we were seeing so many headlines of how crazy this is, and politicians reacting. Okay, but the guys who are really going to face the brunt of this, what's going on, and so, I asked them, you know, what do you think about Trump calling you and the people you work with and your networks terrorists? And how is this going to impact you? And it's so funny, because I had anticipated the, this reaction, but I didn't think that actually does. We don't care, we're just gonna wait four years.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  It's not that deep.

• 8:38Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, wow.

• 8:41Speaker 03

  We're not going to fight them on it. We'll give them what they want to see. And we are not terrorists. Because there is a demand for our product. There are drug addicts all across the United States who want what we have to sell. How are we terrorizing them? We're not, literally, they're telling me like, we're not like ISIS or the Taliban. Bombing innocent people. We just supply a product that there is a demand for. And if this designation means that we have to hold off for a little while in order to protect our networks, that's exactly what we will do.

• 9:19Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. So what do you think, what is the plan then? Are they just gonna, are they gonna stop?

• 9:24Speaker 03

  That's kind of what's been happening.

• 9:25Shawn Ryan?

  Running fentanyl across the border?

• 9:26Speaker 03

  I mean, fentanyl numbers have been going down, but I don't think that's the plan. The plan is to move operations, and I've been reporting on this extensively. It's all happening in Canada now. No one else is clocking it, and it's so obvious. It started during Trump's first administration, when he first started cracking down on the southern border. Cartels knew they could go into Canada and they didn't need a visa like they needed to get into the US. It was just a regular tourist visa. They didn't need to apply for anything or pay for anything. They could just go get their tourist, like have a regular tourist visa the way I come to the United States. Set up shop, negotiate and network with pre-existing organized crime groups in Canada,

• 10:07Speaker 03

  whether that be the Hells Angels, a big one, or Brothers Keepers, or Red Scorpion, or the United Nations gang. And say, hey, look, you guys have incredible access. Okay, over 5,000 miles of practically unprotected border into the United States. We can produce this product here and traffic it. Not to mention, a lot of these pre-existing gangs were, have, have a large Asian populations. And what do we have in Vancouver? The Port of Vancouver. And where are the fentanyl precursors coming in? From China. So you move these precursors, the movement is now, is come, no, no longer coming into Mexico. It's coming into Canada.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  You set up shop, you increase profit, you tell all these guys that are already there, hey, look, if you let us, Sinaloa or Jalisco in to work with you guys, we're going to quadruple profits.

• 11:01Shawn Ryan?

  So wait, you're saying that no more, are you saying in addition to Mexico produce fentanyl? Or it's all moved to Canada?

• 11:13Speaker 03

  I think the majority has moved to Canada.

• 11:14Shawn Ryan?

  The majority of it's moved to Canada?

• 11:16Speaker 03

  Yes. I am 99% sure about that, because you can never be 100% sure, but I am so sure about that. Last summer, I wanted to crack down on this story. Because I had an, an individual reach out to me who was an operative for the Sinaloa cartel, working in Canada, running these labs.

• 11:32Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:34Speaker 03

  And he showed me the labs that the Sinaloa cartel is operating with.

• 11:43Shawn Ryan?

  Physically?

• 11:43Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 11:45Shawn Ryan?

  What are they, where are they putting them?

• 11:47Speaker 03

  They're putting them in suburban, sort of, so in, in, they're particularly in the west coast, in B C and in Alberta, which is like a prairie province. And so there's a lot of farmland and it's residential. And prior to them, it, prior to this, it was meth labs that they had running out there. And there would always be like a random meth lab explosion in Abbotsford, or, you know, this is like a, a smaller city. And then these turned into fentanyl labs. That were completely under the radar, because we also didn't have Canadian law enforcement, like patrolling these areas to an extent that they would patrol like a large city like Vancouver or Toronto.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  So you're bringing in precursors from the port of Vancouver, easily, because let, less than 1% of cargo that comes into the port of Vancouver is actually inspected by authorities or.

• 12:39Shawn Ryan?

  Less than how much?

• 12:40Speaker 03

  Less than 1%.

• 12:41Shawn Ryan?

  Less than 1%?

• 12:42Speaker 03

  That is an official number, yes. So the majority of the cargo that's coming into the port of Vancouver is unmonitored.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  And you have longshoremen that are on organized crime payroll.

• 13:01Speaker 03

  Or turning a blind eye. These precursors are being brought to labs throughout the lower mainland. And they are producing fentanyl there. And it started off as distributing this product throughout Canada. Because just like the United States, there has been this insatiable appetite for fentanyl in Canada. Um, during the pandemic. More people at one point were dying of fentanyl overdose deaths than from COVID. So that was a major health crisis.

• 13:36Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  And then. There's this major crackdown at the southern border. You already have cartel operatives established in the north. You have five that over five thousand miles of practically unprotected border. You know, it's Greenland and. Uh, you can fly across, you can drive your boat across, you can drive your dirt bike across.

• 14:03Speaker 03

  And that just. Left it as open field for these members of organized crime. To start to bring their operations to the next level by trafficking everything into the United States.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  And it's important to keep in mind that Canadian law enforcement knows this is happening. Very aware, has been aware since around twenty seventeen.

• 14:30Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, this has been happening since twenty seventeen.

• 14:32Speaker 03

  It's been happening, yeah, since Trump's first, so twenty sixteen.

• 14:35Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 14:36Speaker 03

  It's, this has been. I would say for the past. Ten years exactly is when cartel operatives from Mexico started to move operations into Canada.

• 14:49Speaker 03

  And.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Law enforcement knows this is happening, but Canadian law enforcement does not have the resources to crack down on this.

• 14:56Shawn Ryan?

  How many precursors are there, do you know?

• 14:58Speaker 03

  No, I don't, I don't know how to make fentanyl.

• 15:02Speaker 03

  But it's fairly simple.

• 15:04Shawn Ryan?

  How big are these labs? I mean, when you're, when you say, when you say a, you know, a meth lab, that's usually what, like a trailer out in the middle of a field?

• 15:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot of these are just small, like, single occupancy homes.

• 15:17Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, so a farmhouse?

• 15:19Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly.

• 15:21Shawn Ryan?

  Are they buying the farmland?

• 15:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, or they're renting it from, so, a lot of the farmland is owned by certain families.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  And they will rent out these, these plots of land, or whatever little house is already on this land.

• 15:43Speaker 03

  A way that the Canadian authorities crack down on members of organized crime is not through directly charging them with producing or conspiracy to traffic. They will crack down on their, their ownership of a home. And then they, they no longer have a place to run operations. So, that home gets taken away, uh, it's that particular real estate is under investigation, along with the people, but it, it operates a little bit differently, and it, it hinders the way that they're able to work.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  But mentioning the, the law enforcement, is, even though they know that this is going on, the resources just are not there. And I have a really good source who is with the RCMP, that's Canada's National Police Force, and he specializes in organized crime. And we talk about that 1% of fentanyl number very frequently because, he says, neither my colleagues nor myself believe that number, because we have seen so many operations go under the radar, especially when they're working undercover.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  And I said, "Well, why isn't there a crackdown then? Why aren't they stopping it? And why is the Canadian government only implementing a fentanyl czar when Trump is telling them to crack down, not when thousands of people are dying on a monthly basis from fentanyl use?" And he explicitly tells me, "It's because they just don't have the means to do it. They haven't even been able to crack down on local gangland. How are they now supposed to focus on transnational crime organizations?"

• 17:36Speaker 03

  The head of RCMP was asked just recently, "How many organized crime groups, individual organized crime groups, do you think are operating in Canada right now?" And he responds, "It's on video. I don't have a number off the top of my head. I think 4,000." And so, the question is clarified. There are 4,000 organized crime groups operating in Canada with their own individual leadership and networks? And the head of the RCMP said, "Yes, I would say so, around 4,000."

• 18:10Shawn Ryan?

  Who do you think the key players are putting these labs in up there? Sinaloa cartel, which cartel?

• 18:15Speaker 03

  It's Sinaloa and CJNG. But let me just finish that point about the 4,000, because this goes to show the disconnect between Canadian law enforcement in Canada, because it's actually 668 individual organized crime groups. That's according to CSIS, Canadian version of CIA. So imagine if you have this disconnect where our national police force is just pulling out a random number, how are you even supposed to crack down on these people and these groups? But yes, it's mostly Sinaloa and CJNG that are in Canada. I would say now it's likely, probably just CJNG, simply due to the fact that Sinaloa does not have the power, the numbers, to maintain their stronghold, and they've entered into an alliance with New Generation Cartel.

• 19:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. For 125 years, Nordstrom has been part of your story. The stylist who found the perfect outfit for your big interview. The first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old. The tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe. These are the moments that make Nordstrom Nordstrom. Big or small, we're here for all of it. Celebrating 125 years with new moments still add. Discover it all in Nordstrom stores and at nordstrom.com.

• 20:00Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. They made an alliance with them.

• 20:02Speaker 03

  I think it's a proxy alliance. Um, see, or the Chapitos were pretty obviously losing the fight in this faction war that's been going on in the Sinaloa cartel since El Mayo was brought to the United States. And so I think CJ and G saw this as an opportunity to say, "We will back you up, but we gain control over everything." And they are the first cartel in history to have control over every single Mexican state.

• 20:34Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting, interesting. You know, back to, my head's jumping around a lot, so.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  Sorry, I do that too.

• 20:40Shawn Ryan?

  Back to the, back to declaring them terrorist organizations and they're saying, I totally understand what they're saying. You know, "Well, we'll just wait four years and everything will be finished." But, I mean, there's another aspect too. There's, you know, there's always a potential that we send in SOCOM and JSOC units. I mean, do they have any fear of that?

• 21:01Speaker 03

  I asked them about that. And they said that if American special forces lay their feet on Mexican soil, they will fight till the death because they will have nothing to lose. They will put up a fight. Will they win that fight? No. But they won't go down without a fight. Because that's really, that's all they have. And so if, if their entire livelihood and their entire business is being attacked, especially by US uniform operators who have every means to just completely squash it.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  They won't go down like a bitch.

• 21:40Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, who? Down to what level, though? You know what I mean?

• 21:45Speaker 03

  To the very bottom.

• 21:46Shawn Ryan?

  To the very bottom.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  Oh, even, even the local drug dealer, yes. The guy who's a lookout. Who's making pennies. When I was in Sinaloa. Covering this fighting in the fall. Um.

• 22:02Speaker 03

  There was, the money flow was interrupted for, you know, all, all levels of people working in it with, for the cartels. And so. Main people who, you know, it's like that, that necessary job that makes no money are the punteros, the lookouts, the guys on their dirt bikes. Who watch if, if Mexican forces are coming, you know, they, they keep the eyes out. For whatever's going on. Those guys make the least amount of money. They're making around. Five hundred dollars a month. And. When the infighting began. And all of this money and resources had to go to. We need to maintain our stronghold and we need to buy arms and, and stockpile.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  These punteros were the ones losing out. And so when I was there. Once it got dark, I couldn't order Uber Eats to my hotel because these guys were stealing the food. From the delivery men because they didn't even have enough money to eat. But they were still working for the cartels. They wouldn't say, okay, you know what? Fuck this. I'm gonna go and work in a Walmart where I'm at least gonna make. A steady income. It's not great, but I have something to pay for my basic needs. Because at that point. It's not just about the money. It's indoctrination. It's about being a part of something. Feeling powerful, feeling like you've been validated and accepted by the very people who are responsible. For thousands of deaths and the war on drugs.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  They're on the FBI's most wanted posters and I work for that guy.

• 23:37Shawn Ryan?

  I guess it makes sense.

• 23:38Speaker 03

  It makes sense to them. We don't have to understand it.

• 23:41Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Wow, I thought there would be at least a little fear, but doesn't sound like they care at all.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  I don't think they do, and based on what I've been told, whether that's what I was told at the border, whether I go and ask in Sinaloa, or Jalisco, or Michoacan, or Guerrero,

• 23:58Speaker 03

  the consensus remains the same. And

• 24:03Speaker 03

  the people in charge are treated like gods. They are absolutely praised as if they are the one and only. I mean, that's why we see all the songs about El Mencho, El Chapo, El Mayo. And you can literally go to Sinaloa and buy, um, narco merch. You know, you got the hat with whoever's face on it. You can even buy like religious regalia that, that is paying homage to narco leaders.

• 24:34Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  And so the people who work for them praise them. People who don't work for them praise them and want to work for them. So if you're telling this seventeen year old kid

• 24:46Speaker 03

  who has always wanted to be in this lifestyle, you're gonna die for me and American forces are coming in. He'll stand up. He'll probably shit his pants, but he'll do it. He'll put on

• 25:00Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. How many of these labs do you think have been set up in Canada?

• 25:07Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have any estimation on that?

• 25:12Speaker 03

  I think

• 25:15Speaker 03

  I don't know exactly how many labs are operating in Canada. But the majority of the labs that are in Canada, which is significant because there is certainly a supply. There is no lack of drugs in Canada or the United States, right? And especially in northern states too, where a lot of these drugs are coming into. Um, I think the majority of them are being run by the cartels. And the interesting thing is you won't really see it in the numbers or in, uh, in police investigations or press releases because they don't keep track of which criminal organizations are operating what

• 25:54Speaker 03

  Uh, like which labs?

• 25:55Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  So, for example, you will, uh, someone will be arrested, three, three men will be arrested for trafficking arms and drugs. They were arrested in a Surrey home in British Columbia and we found X amount of drugs, X amount of arms with this amount of street value.

• 26:18Speaker 03

  They won't say, oh, you know, they were operating on behalf of, of the Sinaloa cartel. They will say, we found messages in our investigation that they were operating with Mexican associates. And some people will then subsequently be charged and there'll be Mexican nationals living in Canada.

• 26:39Speaker 03

  Those guys are working for the cartels.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  But Canadian authority doesn't keep track, or at least not publicly, of who is working with exactly which criminal organization. And I think that that also does play a role in allowing the cartels to flourish over there because they can operate so entirely under the radar. I mean, here in, in the US, for the first time, a few weeks ago, a woman in El Paso was arrested for particularly working as a straw buyer for CJNG. And this was the first case of someone in the US, uh, with material to be charged as an FTO.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  In Canada, that wouldn't be the case. You wouldn't hear that, oh, she was directly working as an associate with the New Generation cartel.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  But when you bring light to that, especially in a border place like El Paso, then everyone who's doing it is kind of on edge. And then they say, okay, look, hey, we're under a spotlight. But if that's not happening, you continue to operate like, there's, there's no spotlight on us, we don't need to worry because there isn't.

• 27:51Shawn Ryan?

  Do Canadians know this is happening?

• 27:53Speaker 03

  Well, if they read my reporting, they know now. I mean, Cash Patel, director of the FBI, is now saying it publicly. He just said that, um, they're coming in through the port of Vancouver. They're producing fentanyl. The fentanyl is coming from Canada because they haven't secured the northern border.

• 28:13Speaker 03

  And when I initially started reporting on this, and I was reaching out to RCMP and reaching out to CSIS and putting out my contact, everyone was telling me, "No, you're wrong. This can't be." And RCMP was telling me, "We have no evidence to show that local criminal organizations are working directly with cartels." But I met with cartel associates in Canada showing me the production, telling me how they're doing it. And it goes back to what you asked me. Why are they telling me this? Because they want to show you exactly how they're operating under the radar. They're so tough. And, "Oh yeah, you secured our southern border? Fuck you. We moved to Canada."

• 28:53Shawn Ryan?

  How much is one of these labs producing? Did you, do you know that?

• 28:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, okay, so one batch will be like $150,000 worth of fentanyl pills.

• 29:02Shawn Ryan?

  And how many, how many pills is that? Any, any idea?

• 29:06Speaker 03

  It depends, because it depends on the size of the pills. It depends on, on, on the, the strength of, of, what they're, the strength of fentanyl in each pill.

• 29:17Shawn Ryan?

  I'm just trying to get an estimation of how much shit is coming through, you know, the northern US-Canadian border. But, and then how fast do you think this is spreading? I mean, it sounds like right now it's pretty localized in Vancouver, but when's it gonna go, you know, more towards the other coast?

• 29:36Speaker 03

  It is in the east coast. It's not at the same level, but it certainly is at the, in the east coast. Um... What I know what's happening for sure in the east coast is a lot of people are being contracted by the cartels to and not Mexican people. Canadian nationals are being contracted by the cartels to operate as enforcers. A lot of people in Quebec and Ontario.

• 30:01Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean enforcer? What does that mean?

• 30:02Speaker 03

  Uh.

• 30:03Shawn Ryan?

  It's like a hockey player.

• 30:05Speaker 03

  It's like a.

• 30:06Shawn Ryan?

  It protects the hockey team, right?

• 30:08Speaker 03

  They're protecting the the operations.

• 30:10Shawn Ryan?

  How so? What are they doing?

• 30:12Speaker 03

  Taking out hits, threatening people. Um, ensuring that the right individuals are being paid off. Whether that be enforcement at the border so that guns can get across into Canada from the US. Uh, or fentanyl can go the other way.

• 30:33Shawn Ryan?

  How are they getting their people up there? Are they are they coming up through the US?

• 30:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:37Shawn Ryan?

  Just keep going north or are they flying them in?

• 30:41Speaker 03

  So prior to Canada reimplementing the visa requirement, a lot of the Mexican nationals were flying directly into Canada. They completely would bypass the US. It was much easier that way because they wouldn't need a visa.

• 30:54Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  Um, now it's a little bit different. Now some of the operatives who were already based in the US are moving into Canada.

• 31:04Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 31:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:07Speaker 03

  And it's interesting because when I was I gained access to a few group chats that were run by the cartels on WhatsApp, Telegram. WhatsApp is like the starting point just because of the way the encryption is set up. They don't want to talk about too much, but because it is so accessible, it's a great way to hire people, recruit people.

• 31:30Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:30Speaker 03

  And so I gained access to a group chat where they were basically recruiting people to work as enforcers for them, sicarios. Um, you know, managing certain logistics of the business, whether that's paying off authority, finding out who's who, getting the arms, finding the dealers, uh, contracting straw buyers, whatever it may be. When I was in this group chat,

• 31:55Speaker 03

  the first thing that stood out to me was two of the phone numbers were Canadian area codes. One was Alberta and one was Toronto. And.

• 32:04Speaker 03

  One of the individuals was directly asked if he could take out a hit if need be. He would be paid fifty five thousand dollars Canadian. He would have to buy a Glock with three, three mags, I think it was. I have the screenshot and there could be no kids around. And if he goes to the house, make sure that no family is around of the individual that needs to be killed. And so for a lot of these people, money was put on the table right away. You get into this group chat, whether that means you're going to be moving fentanyl pills into the US.

• 32:46Speaker 03

  Whether that means you may have to take out a hit um or pay someone off, conducts any sort of logistics. It was this is how much you'll make, take it or leave it. And that was for a lot of people, that first incentive. Now, for a lot of other folks, it was.

• 33:06Speaker 03

  I'm gonna be a part of the cartel.

• 33:09Speaker 03

  I, for a lot of these people, they're kind of um outcasts.

• 33:13Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 33:15Speaker 03

  And they feel like power, they're like an aggressive person. And a lot of those type of guys who kind of had like a violent past, boxers um were being hired as sicarios.

• 33:31Speaker 03

  And the way they would be recruited into these group chats was either through social media. So a lot of fake postings or postings on Facebook or TikTok that would allude to what they could become a part of, but also just through um

• 33:49Speaker 03

  knowing someone, word of mouth.

• 33:52Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Hey, my niece is dating this guy. He's been here from Mexico for around six years. He's making a ton of money. I know you're strapped for cash. Would you, if you get a package and you just have to drive it across the border, go to the Sears or Walmart parking lot, someone's gonna pick it up, don't look inside, and you're gonna get paid seventy thousand dollars. Just go and come back. People will do it.

• 34:23Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, and Canada's not doing, you, you, actually on the outline, I saw that they are also recruiting from the Balkans.

• 34:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:29Shawn Ryan?

  Did I see that?

• 34:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, Balkan states, like, uh, Armenian guys too, a lot of ex-gang members from over there. And in Australia too. I mean,

• 34:42Speaker 03

  at this point-

• 34:43Shawn Ryan?

  They're recruiting from Australia?

• 34:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:45Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 34:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, Australia, England, like, it seems like there's like this thing with the Commonwealth places, is like-

• 34:51Shawn Ryan?

  Why are they going to the, I mean, why are the, it sounds like there's no shortage of people that wanna join the cartel.

• 34:58Speaker 03

  There isn't, and that's what-

• 34:59Shawn Ryan?

  So why are they recruiting out of Balkans?

• 35:02Speaker 03

  Because they need an international stronghold. And so when you have people who don't look like you, don't talk like you, and come from different training backgrounds, they can fly under the radar a lot better. And they have access to different areas that certain Mexican operatives do not. So, say for example, uh, not that long ago, there was a blatant daylight shooting in, in, uh, Vancouver. A guy was killed, and he was, he was shot by a Canadian man from Quebec, super French name. This individual had spent years in Mexico and Colombia.

• 35:46Speaker 03

  And was said to eventually work for the cartel, go to Canada and take out this hit. Now, how much better is it that you have a Canadian national taking out a hit, he knows where to go, he knows how law enforcement operates, he's from this place, he has access the-

• 36:08Speaker 03

  The chances that there's going to be a fuck up are a lot less. And also, if you know that Canadian law enforcement is not directly attacking the cartels when when an associate who's not Mexican is operating for them, of course, you're going to have a a foreign person, a Canadian or an Australian or someone from England, take out the hit or commit the crime.

• 36:38Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm, yeah, are they are they trying to spread into Europe and Armenia and Australia as well? I mean, is could that be another reason?

• 36:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:49Shawn Ryan?

  So making connections?

• 36:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there are already Interpol reports of particularly CGNG having activity, having strongholds in Australia, in Western Europe, um, in Kenya. There was a, people think I'm crazy when I talk about this, but they found a CGNG-linked lab in Kenya, in Africa.

• 37:11Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Well, what the hell are they doing over there?

• 37:15Speaker 03

  Producing and trafficking. It it's it's an international operation. And to me, it makes sense that they are moving everywhere. Because it's like what I said, they catch me if you can.

• 37:28Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, it makes sense to me with the, I mean, I guess it would, in Kenya, I mean, I don't know how many people would be able to afford fentanyl, you know, but...

• 37:39Speaker 03

  But it's not about domestic distribution.

• 37:42Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:42Speaker 03

  It's about that production there and and being so far removed from where the Hawkeye view is, which is Canada, US, and Mexico, and being able to move the product outwards from there.

• 37:55Shawn Ryan?

  You know, the other thing is, I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong by any means.

• 37:58Speaker 03

  It's okay, you can.

• 37:59Shawn Ryan?

  To me, it's it it doesn't make sense why they would pay a Canadian fifty five thousand um, Canadian dollars to to put a hit out on to assassinate somebody or or fly somebody in from the Balkans or Australia, when we do know they don't give a shit about their people dying. You know, I mean, we've seen that for years, the, you know, they give them five minutes of training and send them off to their work.

• 38:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:25Shawn Ryan?

  But, you know, and and so it it's just, it's not very cost effective for them to... To have to pay that price when they can just send somebody, you know, from a little pueblo that has nothing into Mex- into Canada, US, anywhere they want, you know?

• 38:44Speaker 03

  It's certainly not cost effective, but I think logistically, it works for them. Um, you have a Canadian who's willing to commit these crimes for you on their soil.

• 38:55Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:56Speaker 03

  You completely avoid detection of that being the cartel.

• 39:00Shawn Ryan?

  For it down.

• 39:01Speaker 03

  It does.

• 39:01Shawn Ryan?

  Until those people get interrogated and I mean.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  And they say they've been working for the criminals. And then in the, in the RCMP information, they're saying, well, yeah, this person had connections with Mexican criminals.

• 39:16Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  But Canadian authority isn't going after those criminals who put out the hit.

• 39:26Shawn Ryan?

  Man, what do you? Is there any, anything that Canada has been doing to combat this at all, or they're just trying to sweep it under the rug?

• 39:33Speaker 03

  I think they're sweeping it under the rug. I think since Trump tried to say, you know, we got a crackdown on the northern border and Cash Patel has been putting a lot of pressure. Um, they've been doing these sort of public things like, you know, the appointing of fentanyl czar, um, amping up the amount of Border Patrol at the northern border.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  But in terms of really getting to the root of the problem,

• 39:56Speaker 03

  it's being swept under the rug. And a lot of folks that I've spoken to in Canadian law enforcement agree with that notion.

• 40:02Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  And if I speak to any of my sources that are, you know, part of associates with the cartel operating in Canada, they feel like it's business as usual.

• 40:16Shawn Ryan?

  Are they infiltrating? I mean, how big are they getting into Canada? I mean, like in the US, we know they're starting to get involved in politics, local police departments. Uh, a lot of them are joining the military to get the training and then get out.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  I don't think that's happening yet, and because I don't think it's necessary. I think that the way that they've set up shop is working for them, and they're not going to fix something that isn't broken and, and risk. Losing what they have.

• 40:43Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, okay.

• 40:45Speaker 03

  And it's also important to keep in mind that there is evidence and you know, there's all these reports that come out from CSIS about Chinese intervention in Canadian politics and elections. And if the Mexican cartels are already directly working with the Chinese, there's no need for them to to go above them and try to get involved with Canadian politics. That's being done for them.

• 41:09Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. All right, let's take a quick break. When we come back, I know I want to talk about some of the other businesses that the cartels are starting to set up outside of Fentanyl.

• 41:22Speaker 00

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• 41:56Shawn Ryan?

  Join me for our first ever livestream debrief hosted exclusively on Vigilance Elite Patreon. We'll unpack the China-Taiwan conflict, reveal insights from our Dubai trip with GBRS Group's J Cal and break down the Iran-Israel conflict's impact on everyday citizens. Stream it for free on July 1st, 6 p.m. Central Time on Vigilance Elite Patreon.

• 42:23Speaker 01

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• 42:56Shawn Ryan?

  All right, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to dive into, you know, the first diversification of all of the different cartel businesses. So I've talked about this a couple of times before. It's been, I think it's been about two years though, since I've covered this topic. But last I heard, they were getting into the avocado trade.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 43:16Shawn Ryan?

  What else are they diving into?

• 43:18Speaker 03

  Okay, crude oil, avocado, and agriculture is the big, the biggest ones. So after human smuggling and drug trafficking, the second most profitable form of revenue for the cartels is what you call the crude oil theft. This has been going on for forever. And we have seen a lot of mass tragedies due to this, even though it's not, you know, a illicit substance like fentanyl. The way they tap into these pipelines in a lot of unsecured areas in smaller towns, where these pipelines run through, if they tap into it wrong, or if they do it time and time again, it leads to a mass explosion. And these headline in Mexico all the time,

• 44:03Speaker 03

  and have been for decades. Now, what's happening now is actually, just a few weeks ago, three CGNG operatives were sanctioned by the US for trafficking stolen crude oil from Mexico into the US, and certain smaller American oil companies were buying this oil. And they were bringing it into the US labeled as waste oil. So it was going completely undetected. A lot of it was going into the port of Brownsville in Texas. And this for them is a billion-dollar business.

• 44:40Shawn Ryan?

  Waste oil?

• 44:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, they were.

• 44:42Shawn Ryan?

  What the hell is waste oil?

• 44:43Speaker 03

  They were calling it waste oil.

• 44:46Shawn Ryan?

  So the US is just letting people import waste oil to dump?

• 44:51Speaker 03

  Apparently, because they were bringing this in, in trucks, and it was being taken to smaller refineries, where then it was known that it was not waste oil. It was actually raw crude oil. And...

• 45:06Speaker 03

  That is giving them around three billion dollars a year at one point.

• 45:09Shawn Ryan?

  How much money are they making off of this?

• 45:11Speaker 03

  Like billions of dollars, like three, three billion dollars a year.

• 45:15Shawn Ryan?

  Three billion.

• 45:15Speaker 03

  There's like seventeen thousand, uh, seventeen thousand

• 45:21Speaker 03

  like tankers worth of oil that are being stolen per day in Mexico.

• 45:26Shawn Ryan?

  Are you serious?

• 45:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:28Shawn Ryan?

  Seventeen thousand tankers a day?

• 45:30Speaker 03

  That's what Pemex numbers show, which is the, which is the Mexican oil company. It's, it has a monopoly, Pemex.

• 45:36Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Do you think they'll just try to take, do you think they'll just try to take control of the pipeline itself?

• 45:42Speaker 03

  They do. That's exactly what they do. And a lot of, uh, National Guard and local police are on the cartel payroll so that they can go and tap in these, into these pipelines and no one's going to say anything. Actually, just.

• 45:53Shawn Ryan?

  Talking about actually like tapping into the pipeline?

• 45:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 45:56Shawn Ryan?

  Or you, I'm talking about just taking control of the entire pipeline and piping it to.

• 46:01Speaker 03

  Piping it to, oh, okay. Probably not.

• 46:04Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 46:04Speaker 03

  That's, that's a whole, I mean, it could be happening, but I haven't, I done any reporting on that. I mean, from what I know and what I've seen is them physically going and tapping into the pipeline and stealing it and, and putting it into the tanker and driving that across. And just a few days ago, eleven members of the National Guard were arrested because they were caught red-handed at a pipeline stealing the oil.

• 46:29Shawn Ryan?

  And they're just getting this through the US border?

• 46:31Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 46:31Shawn Ryan?

  Just seventeen thousand tankers a day are coming across the US border?

• 46:36Speaker 03

  I don't know if seventeen thousand tankers are moving across the border a day, but that's how much is being stolen per day. So it's obviously going somewhere.

• 46:44Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:44Speaker 03

  At a certain point in time. And this is major profits for the cartel, especially with this crackdown at the southern border on fentanyl and human smuggling, which is, you know, major financial pipeline for them. Let's, let's go make money off a different pipeline.

• 46:59Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, do we import, we don't import any gas from Mexico, do we?

• 47:05Speaker 03

  It's.

• 47:06Shawn Ryan?

  Do we? Like legal, legally?

• 47:08Speaker 03

  Legally, yeah. So a lot of the, a lot of the crude oil from Mexico goes to the US and is fined in the US and refined in the US and Mexico buys it back.

• 47:15Shawn Ryan?

  So this is relatively easy operation to bust into.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  Mexico doesn't have the refinery, doesn't have the infrastructure to do it. They buy the gas back.

• 47:24Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. So they, so we buy the gas or we refine the gas and then pipe it back into Mexico?

• 47:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so that's, that's one that I talk about a lot because

• 47:37Speaker 03

  the problem with this is they can do it so under the radar and they're experts at it at this point because it's been going on for so long. And there's so much impunity around incorruption. Uh, so many people, the right people are paid off, the right people, whether that's politicians, National Guard, police are being, are profiting off of this trade. And so

• 48:03Speaker 03

  the way to crack down on this is so murky because it's not, you know, you don't have this fentanyl pill that's going to kill someone. And that's a controlled substance.

• 48:13Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 48:14Speaker 03

  It's oil and it's something that everybody needs.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  And if the way to get this oil is by going into these uh undetected regions where it's just a small town and law enforcement knows what's going on. It's very easy to access for them.

• 48:35Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think that this will, I mean, oil and gas is a big business.

• 48:40Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 48:41Shawn Ryan?

  And some of the most powerful people in the world uh are in the most powerful people in the world are, you know, oil and gas. And so I guess what I'm asking is, I mean, do, do they, do, do your sources believe that the oil and gas sector, their cartel business will overtake fentanyl and drug trafficking?

• 49:06Speaker 03

  If push comes to shove and they really have to rely on something that isn't drugs, they could certainly move all of their operations to oil.

• 49:13Shawn Ryan?

  Why wouldn't they just want to anyways?

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Because money.

• 49:17Shawn Ryan?

  It seems so much, you think the, the drug trade is more than the gas trade?

• 49:21Speaker 03

  It's more profitable for them.

• 49:22Shawn Ryan?

  Right now?

• 49:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:23Shawn Ryan?

  Or 10 years down the road?

• 49:25Speaker 03

  I don't know. It's very hard to say and it depends where and how they want to distribute their resources. If they want to fully focus on that, they could make it their number one earner.

• 49:37Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, because the, the only reason I'm asking is from an American aspect, I mean.

• 49:43Shawn Ryan?

  That doesn't really affect us. That affects

• 49:46Speaker 03

  Mexican people.

• 49:47Shawn Ryan?

  Gas, industry and Mexico.

• 49:50Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 49:50Shawn Ryan?

  That only enhances US refining.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  Which is why I thought it was interesting. When these three CGNG members were sanctioned for importing this stolen crude oil, none of the US refineries faced any, any sanctions or legal action.

• 50:08Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:09Speaker 03

  And of course investigators certainly knew or know which refineries and companies were buying this stolen oil. But nothing happened there on that front. Why? Because this is not killing Americans.

• 50:23Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm. It's, I mean, it's legitimately just not our problem.

• 50:26Speaker 03

  No.

• 50:27Shawn Ryan?

  That's the, the, the Mexican government could take care of that.

• 50:30Speaker 03

  Exactly. It's not like the drugs.

• 50:32Shawn Ryan?

  What else are they diving into?

• 50:33Speaker 03

  Agriculture. Agriculture has been huge and more than ever before. I mean, the three major points of agriculture where all avocados that you guys eat here and limes that you guys use is coming from Michoacan, Jalisco, Nayarit. And those are CGNG strongholds. So what's been happening for the longest time and, and particularly now as they're trying to diversify their revenue streams.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  Cartel operatives are going in to these ranches, these orchards and telling the farmers who have had these orchards in their families for generations. Because I don't know if you know, but you know, raising one avocado tree, if it's successful, which is also just difficult within itself, can take up to 15 years. So this takes a lot of dedication to be an avocado farmer. And it's a very profitable fruit. They call it green gold for something. Uh, and cartels are going in. Armed men will show up and say, listen, you're either going to pay me X percentage of whatever you're profiting off of your avocado exports, or this becomes ours.

• 51:47Speaker 03

  And a lot of these farmers, they're doing well for themselves, you know, in, in the, in terms of earning potential in Mexico generally, right? They're making an honest income. They're working their asses off. The whole family is part of this business. They're employing people from their town.

• 52:09Speaker 03

  And they're making good money to support themselves. So then you have our men come in, say either get out or pay me an amount that they typically cannot afford because it's not that much money. And you're saying now, give me 80% of your earnings. How are you supposed to maintain your orchards if you're losing more than half of your income to organized crime? So a lot of these people have to abandon their farms. There are, this is hundreds of avocado orchards, particularly in Michoacan, have been abandoned by their rightful owner and cartels are now working those orchards.

• 52:47Speaker 03

  Or the very people who own these places are now being employed by the cartel to go and, and, and farm the land, work the land. And there are certain, uh, produce companies in the US who are knowingly, some not knowingly, but others knowingly, purchasing avocados from cartel-run avocado orchards in Mexico. And I reached out to these, uh, I, I actually had, uh, really significant produce person, someone who worked for the US government as an inspector before. So the US sends inspectors, uh, to these regions to make sure, you know, for pesticide control, pest control,

• 53:30Speaker 03

  whatever the case may be, and even for ethics. So is organized crime operating here?

• 53:36Speaker 03

  And I got in contact with someone who did this job. And I got a list of produce company names, uh, that were knowingly, are knowingly importing avocados and limes from farms that are now run by the cartels blatantly. And when I reached out to them and said, you know, what is your guys' due process to ensure that you aren't supporting organized crime? No comment. We don't talk about this. Of course you won't. But wouldn't you want to clear your name? Wouldn't you want to show to the American avocado consumer that those avocados aren't blood fruit?

• 54:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, it sounds, what you're describing sounds really, uh, very similar to the diamond trade.

• 54:23Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 54:24Shawn Ryan?

  But, I mean, with that being said, it, it's, it's.

• 54:32Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, how many, how many legitimate avocado farms are there left in Mexico?

• 54:37Speaker 03

  Not a lot.

• 54:39Shawn Ryan?

  The only reason I'm asking is Luis Chaparro, I've had him on several times here and he, he talked about the avocado trade with the cartels and how Super Bowl citizens and they'll create a shortage despite the prices and all that kind of stuff. But I mean, so, I mean, do these, do these US-based food companies, do they have, I mean, do they even have anywhere else to buy this stuff from? Or is it just cartels?

• 55:05Speaker 03

  At this point, it's likely just cartels. And

• 55:11Speaker 03

  the cartels manipulated that because it got to a point when the US agricultural inspectors were going to Mexico to inspect these farms, then they were being threatened. And so then the US stopped sending inspectors to these regions, which meant it was a free-for-all for the cartels to take over every single orchard that existed there.

• 55:31Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, an inspector isn't gonna stop that.

• 55:34Speaker 03

  No. No, that's not even his job. That's not their job.

• 55:37Shawn Ryan?

  So is the Mexican government doing anything about this at all?

• 55:40Speaker 03

  Okay, they sent in, when this, a bunch of farmers banded together because they will do that, you know, they're tough, they're hardworking and they banded together and said, "We can't take this anymore. The cartels are taking over our livelihoods, they're taking over our businesses." So, Mexican government sent in a couple thousand troops to these regions to try and protect them, but those very troops were getting paid off by the cartel too. They were also being threatened. There were shootouts at these farms. And typically, when that happens in Mexico, unfortunately, government backs down.

• 56:17Shawn Ryan?

  How about the water trade?

• 56:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's another thing, especially in these same regions because it's very important for farmers, you know, for the irrigation, but also just for the people living in these regions. They've monopolized water, they monopolized wifi, even

• 56:33Shawn Ryan?

  Wifi.

• 56:33Speaker 03

  Wifi, yeah, they put up their own wifi wires in certain towns in these regions, so you can only purchase from the cartel provider.

• 56:44Shawn Ryan?

  No shit.

• 56:44Speaker 03

  They cut the cords from, there's other wifi providers in Mexico like Izzy and uh there's other ones, right? Of legitimate.

• 56:52Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  And those wires are being cut, the infrastructure is being destroyed, cartel puts up their own infrastructure, now you have to only get your wifi from us.

• 57:04Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. So they have communications, they have agriculture, they have oil and gas.

• 57:12Speaker 03

  I mean, it's every single aspect of, of basic life, every necessity.

• 57:17Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, what, how is the relationship with, what is their relationship like with, with the Chinese that are piping in all of the precursors to make fentanyl? You had mentioned a lot of them are going to Canada now, but I mean, seems, just interviewed Tom Homan, you know, the borders are, and he said that the, I believe, have to reference the interview, but I believe he said that, that the southern border is ninety-six point eight percent secured. Do you, do you agree with that?

• 57:47Speaker 03

  It's a very high number, and I do believe that the southern border is a lot more secured than it was six months ago. Certainly. Uh, the price of being smuggled across the border has gone up, like if you want to pay for a coyote to take you across. Less coyotes are operating because of just the sheer amount of vigilance at the southern border.

• 58:15Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 58:16Speaker 03

  And US and Mexico numbers both show that fentanyl trafficking has gone down at the southern border. Ninety-six percent is, is very high. To say it's ninety-six percent secured, I mean, how do you even quantify how secure a border is?

• 58:33Speaker 03

  But in terms of.

• 58:35Shawn Ryan?

  I think you do about the number of people coming across.

• 58:37Speaker 03

  The number of people coming across, right? But of course, you don't track every single person that's coming across. Has it gone down? Certainly. And numbers on both sides of the border show that. And if you just go to that border, it looks so different than it did six months ago. I mean, you have tons of CBP helicopter patrol constantly. Uh, Mexico deployed an additional, I think, twelve thousand National Guard to secure their side of the border. And the threat of tariffs and.

• 59:11Speaker 03

  US intervention in Mexico really did push Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum to act on the southern border. Because she didn't want to see a Mexico where there was American intervention. She wanted to maintain autonomy. Fair enough.

• 59:26Shawn Ryan?

  Why don't you think she wants any intervention?

• 59:29Speaker 03

  Because she wants Mexico to stay Mexico. She doesn't want to see American forces coming in. She doesn't want Mexican people to feel like their own government can't deal with it by themselves. And

• 59:40Shawn Ryan?

  Don't they already feel like that?

• 59:41Speaker 03

  A hundred percent. But you can admit a loss. Another point to that is to protect people who are in her administration who have narco ties.

• 59:52Shawn Ryan?

  Does she have narco ties?

• 59:55Speaker 03

  One hundred percent.

• 59:56Shawn Ryan?

  One hundred percent.

• 59:57Speaker 03

  I believe she definitely has narco ties.

• 59:59Shawn Ryan?

  What makes you believe that?

• 1:00:01Speaker 03

  She's with the Morena party. So many political figures in this party have now, just recently, been sanctioned by the US, had their visas revoked by the US, have been tied to shell companies in the US that are cleaning money for the cartels. This was the most violent Mexican election in the history of Mexican elections. Why were people dying at the polls? Why were armed men showing up to voting stations and destroying the ballots? And the ballot boxes? And then, prior to her, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, the previous Mex- president of Mexico, who basically took Sheinbaum and put her up and said, "Everyone who voted for me, vote for her."

• 1:00:46Speaker 03

  And she won by a landslide. No one has ever voted by that margin in a Mexi- in a Mexican federal election ever before. He had been reported to have received a significant multimillion dollar payout from the Sinaloa cartel.

• 1:01:03Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:01:04Speaker 03

  So if you have this party that just has so many rotten apples, you're telling me it's not spoiling the bunch and that the main figurehead of this party, the president of Mexico who could, if she really wanted to, say, "Fuck the cartels. We're ending them. Everyone is suffering on both sides of the border and globally. Okay, we are going to crack down." And that's not really happening. It's a soft stance. It's certainly not as soft as her predecessor. His, his moral, or his slogan was "Abrazos no balazos, hugs not bullets." She didn't take that on, which I think was great because what do you mean that you're gonna, you know,

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  it just didn't, it made no sense. Uh, but do I think she has narcotiz yet? And people come for me a lot when I say that because they say, like, "You're just shitting on a president who cares about the Mexican people." I think if she really cared about the Mexican people, the cartel crackdown would be to the next, next level.

• 1:02:06Shawn Ryan?

  I think if she really cared about the Mexican people, it would, it would be a positive to get the US in there to help solve this problem.

• 1:02:14Speaker 03

  And then the US has this watch list of narco-politicians. Uh, I, I, a source from your government actually gave me a few names. I published that list. And then exactly a month later, one of the people that I had on that list, which was the, the governor of Baja California, Marina del Pilar, her US tourist visa and her husband's were revoked. And there was no reason given as to why, but there's certainly an investigation going. She's also part of the Morena party. Uh, and then the governor of Sinaloa, Ruben Rochamoya, who, you know, a lot of people have, a lot of people who seek the truth have beef with him because...

• 1:03:00Speaker 03

  He has been a part of a lot of shady dealings and

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  how is your state going to erupt into this war zone where the cartels basically control every aspect of politics, law enforcement and daily life for the citizens? And you're, you're, yet you're sitting high and mighty as if nothing is happening. Everything is okay, everything is okay. And, and the US names him. And the president of Mexico goes up in public in her morning press conferences and, and defends him. Says, no, no, no. He's doing his job and honestly.

• 1:03:35Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, wow.

• 1:03:37Speaker 03

  And look. People can say all they want, well, maybe she doesn't directly have ties with, with narcos. Okay, but if she's defending the very people who do, who are under her administration. Does that not make you just as guilty? I mean, tell me about your integrity and, and your responsibility to protect the citizens of the country and ensure that they have a solid quality of life while protecting the very people who are ruining that.

• 1:04:12Shawn Ryan?

  Have you heard of?

• 1:04:18Shawn Ryan?

  I've heard a lot of rumors that former SOCOM and JSOC special operators are going down and training cartel. Have you veterans? Have you heard that?

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  Like not part of the Green Beret program? Because there is, there is a program, the US does train. Mexican military and then they kind of form their own.

• 1:04:39Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, no, I'm talking about guys that have separated from the military that are going down there.

• 1:04:45Speaker 03

  And directly training cartels.

• 1:04:46Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:04:49Shawn Ryan?

  How, how much of that is going on?

• 1:04:52Speaker 03

  If you go to Tamaulipas right now. It, it borders Texas and Mexico.

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  There are cartel operatives who can expertly show you how to arm,

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  you know, put together arm and and put a minigun on top of a vehicle and use it like an expert.

• 1:05:11Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  And that isn't common knowledge and that isn't something that, you know, like guerrilla warfare teaches you. These people are directly being taught by USX military. I've heard and we're talking about this on the way here, uh Israelis, people who know how how to

• 1:05:34Speaker 03

  use high level arms.

• 1:05:36Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:05:37Speaker 03

  And and know a fair bit about high level warfare tactics.

• 1:05:44Speaker 03

  If the cartels weren't trained by these very people, they would not be able to function at the level that they are.

• 1:05:53Shawn Ryan?

  If if you, do you have any sources that have told you that former soft guys are heading down there to train?

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, particularly in in Mexican state border, Texas.

• 1:06:05Speaker 03

  There there are cartel operatives in in Tamaulipas who will will blatantly say, the gringo taught us this. Or do it the way the gringos do it.

• 1:06:18Shawn Ryan?

  Well, that's terrifying.

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  And that has to do not only like with the mini guns, but the IEDs that they have, they they are, their IEDs now are just next level, um drone operations. They're using drones that now, initially, they were attaching bombs, IEDs to to the drones, flying them in, and then the whole contraption would blow up. Now they're doing it in a way where the drone goes in, it drops the ID and then the drone goes back out and they're they're saving a lot of technology by doing this, right? And it's making it, uh it's fast tracking the operation.

• 1:06:56Speaker 03

  They were taught by Americans.

• 1:06:58Shawn Ryan?

  They were taught by Americans how to do that too.

• 1:07:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. And with the anti-drone technology. That came from overseas, well, that came from abroad.

• 1:07:06Shawn Ryan?

  They have anti-drone technology? What kind of anti-drone?

• 1:07:09Speaker 03

  They have, so I actually, I wish I could show you the video of it. Uh, they have like the, the big, uh, drone blockers. So if there is a drone flying in the area, they can completely disable that drone and, and make it, have it seize to function.

• 1:07:23Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, what other kind of tech are that, that's where I wanted to lead into.

• 1:07:26Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:07:27Shawn Ryan?

  You know, warfare is changing, uh, in a astronomical base.

• 1:07:31Speaker 03

  They're at a point in their warfare where it's, they've never had this level of access before and expertise. They have technology that you would never have imagined cartels have, I mean, with the amount of money and access they have to certain people and expertise, certainly, they can do this, they can learn how to operate anti-drone technology, how to, uh, use drones, uh, multiple times and drop IEDs, how to set up a minigun.

• 1:08:04Speaker 03

  But they're also, you know, they're using technology that it, it's not typical warfare technology. So even in certain regions, uh, they have like cellphone blockers, but just set up throughout the town too. So you walk in and all of a sudden, either your phone doesn't work or it's immediately tapped. Even the way they're putting Pegasus on people's phones.

• 1:08:28Shawn Ryan?

  They're putting Pegasus on people's phones?

• 1:08:30Speaker 03

  Oh, Mexico and a particularly Mexican journalists, it's like, uh, you are the number one victim of having Pegasus on your phone.

• 1:08:36Shawn Ryan?

  No kidding?

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. They got Pegasus from Israel.

• 1:08:40Shawn Ryan?

  You want to talk about Pegasus real quick?

• 1:08:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, we can talk about, yeah, Pegasus, it's, it's like the number one phone hacking technology and it, it doesn't take anything at all. It's literally, I get a message on WhatsApp, if I just press on that contact that sent me the message, Pegasus is now in my phone and they have access to everything, all of the data, even the metadata that's in my phone. And can track me, can listen in to me, everything. Um, and just recently, actually, the Mexican president's phone was hacked. It was a phone that she said she never used and it was just like a personal phone. But if you're able to hack the president's phone.

• 1:09:22Speaker 03

  Anyone is at risk. And Mexico is a a main consumer of or user of Pegasus technology.

• 1:09:31Shawn Ryan?

  Who who are they deploying all this stuff against? Is it cartel on cartel for the most part?

• 1:09:36Speaker 03

  No, it's anyone that threatens their operations. So of course, yes, they're cartel adversaries. But politicians, law enforcement, journalists, um.

• 1:09:49Speaker 03

  Even sometimes people who are working for them, their own straw buyers, people who they feel like they can't fully trust. Stay frosty, put some Pegasus on his phone.

• 1:10:01Shawn Ryan?

  What about the drones?

• 1:10:03Speaker 03

  What about the drones?

• 1:10:04Shawn Ryan?

  Who are they deploying that on?

• 1:10:05Speaker 03

  They're deploying the drones against Mexican forces. They they, if there is a an operation that's going down, uh. They know Mexican forces are gonna be in this area. They will even uh trap them. So lead Mexican forces, this happened not so long ago, an example of this. Lead Mexican forces to believe that. A key figure is here or a key lab is here and they will arm that location with. IEDs and have drones ready to go in there. Mexican forces will get there and they get exploded.

• 1:10:39Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, so they hit them with IEDs and then do a drone swarm.

• 1:10:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:43Shawn Ryan?

  How big are the drone swarms? Any idea?

• 1:10:46Speaker 03

  It really depends on like which cartel is. Operating this, but for the most part, they're not that large. They're you're. They have just like even just like regular drones are using like even like the the DJI drones or they're getting the drones from China. That are like a knockoff version and attaching bombs to it and just dropping those in.

• 1:11:05Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm, mm hmm.

• 1:11:07Speaker 03

  And you'll even see videos of when they're flying, they're kind of weighed down a bit.

• 1:11:10Shawn Ryan?

  So nothing like. A hundred drones coming all at once like some of the stuff.

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  No, it's not to that extent. At least not yet.

• 1:11:18Shawn Ryan?

  How far out do you think we are before that starts happening?

• 1:11:22Speaker 03

  It depends if if the US puts boots on the ground in Mexico. Because I don't think Mexican forces will ever push it to a point where cartels feel like that's how hard they need to hit them.

• 1:11:32Shawn Ryan?

  You don't?

• 1:11:33Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:11:33Shawn Ryan?

  You don't think so?

• 1:11:34Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:11:36Speaker 03

  There's too much at risk and there's too much for them to lose. I think,

• 1:11:42Speaker 03

  you know, something that really stood out to me.

• 1:11:43Shawn Ryan?

  What's what's the risk? What do you mean there's too much for them to lose?

• 1:11:46Speaker 03

  Uh, for for Mexican special forces to be at risk of of danger. Um, I was gonna say, when I was in Sinaloa, uh, they had just, the day that I got there, we went to the base and they had just brought in reinforcements for uh, National Guard.

• 1:12:06Speaker 03

  And a lot of the people were very young and they were literally coming into a place where they were ready to face the cartels head on. I mean, every night it was just like, you would just see the fireworks, the shootouts. Um, in the morning, there would be dead bodies lining major highways with notes, sending messages. And so these guys were coming in knowing that they had to take on a very desperate cartel head on and try to stop some extreme level of violence with very little experience. They were very young. And some of them looked so nervous and even fearful to be there.

• 1:12:49Speaker 03

  And if there is that level of fear, then when you ask me, are these guys going to

• 1:12:57Speaker 03

  go in and and take them head on to a point where the cartels will completely amp up and you have a hundred drone storms going in there and just taking out uh, Mexican forces? No, because I don't think the Mexican forces

• 1:13:11Speaker 03

  would get to that level. I mean, hugs not bullets was a policy for so long that now to switch that up and go have the pendulum swing to the exact opposite where it's like, no, we are going to take them on? I don't think the people who are in the forces, you know, I don't want to undermine it and I I don't mean it like this, but I I I don't think the training and the morale is even there to be like, I'm going in to die for this. We're taking these guys out. So, no.

• 1:13:42Speaker 03

  Mexican cartels won't likely unless US forces come into Mexico, get to a level where they believe they have to completely amp up operations where it's like Ukraine Russia style. Simply due to the fact that Mexican forces aren't going to push them to that level.

• 1:13:59Shawn Ryan?

  So you don't think that they're proactive enough to start to stock up on drones, start getting 3D printers and printing their own drones and all of these?

• 1:14:07Speaker 03

  Proactive, yes.

• 1:14:08Shawn Ryan?

  Or if US forces do come in?

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  100%.

• 1:14:11Shawn Ryan?

  You don't think they'll deploy them though unless?

• 1:14:13Speaker 03

  Unless US steps in.

• 1:14:15Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:14:16Speaker 03

  Because they won't have a need to, but are they proactively stocking up? 100% yes, and I've been told about this.

• 1:14:22Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:22Speaker 03

  From the very people in charge of ensuring that they are armed.

• 1:14:27Shawn Ryan?

  Do they have strategic locations where they're stocking up? I mean, in, in, I mean, since you're saying that they are proactive, do they have strategic locations where they're stocking up on, on tech, weapons, all this kind of stuff? Do they, do they know what, do they think they might know what it might look like, where the fight's gonna begin?

• 1:14:47Speaker 03

  Yes, it, okay.

• 1:14:50Speaker 03

  First and foremost, there are safe houses throughout all of Mexico where they're stocking up on this and particularly surprisingly enough, in a lot of tourist destinations because it's easy access, a lot of these places have water access, um.

• 1:15:06Speaker 03

  It goes under the radar, so Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco.

• 1:15:12Speaker 03

  These are cities that the cartel is using to their advantage to, to stock up and because they already have a lot of operations going on there. And because they know that that won't, those areas won't be hit as a war zone. Because they're tourist hotspots, so Mexico will never want to scare away the tourism sector.

• 1:15:34Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:15:35Speaker 03

  So if they have a safe house in a place like Puerto Vallarta, which is also the CGNG stronghold, filled with arms, filled with tech, drones, 3D printers, you name it. Um, they can get there, they can get the access, they can get someone to bring it out to them. And it won't be a problem. Now, in terms of the places that would be hit, like say, US operators stepped into, into Mexico. Again, it won't be those particular regions. It will be Sinaloa, it will be Culiacan, it will be Michoacan. It will be Guerrero, it will be Tamaulipas. Areas where Veracruz, and there's a port in Veracruz.

• 1:16:17Shawn Ryan?

  You're saying that's where we would deploy?

• 1:16:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:16:19Shawn Ryan?

  I think that's probably where we would deploy conventional guys if we did that. But as far as strategic strikes, when you bring in tier one units. I mean, those guys are gonna go everywhere. They don't, it doesn't matter.

• 1:16:32Speaker 03

  I agree, and I think that the cartels certainly know that.

• 1:16:37Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:37Speaker 03

  They're bracing for it. A lot of them are worried that that's going to happen if it hasn't already, there's some level of American intervention in Mexico. I mean, we've seen it with the CIA planes that are flying, that, they obviously have Mexican permission to do that, but there's CIA planes flying across the northern Mexican states. The US is certainly gathering intel, and they're working bilaterally with Mexico. How long will that last, or, or how far is that going? Not to the point that Mexico would like to see. But the US knows that they have to withhold some information and, and a lot of intelligence in order for their for their operations not to fail.

• 1:17:17Speaker 03

  Because the one wrong person finds out about it, whether that's in government, whether that's in Mexican intelligence, and the whole operation goes to shit. Even with, uh, El Chapo's family going into Tijuana, or go, going across the border and receiving sort of safe haven in the US.

• 1:17:38Speaker 03

  Mexico didn't know about that.

• 1:17:40Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 1:17:40Speaker 03

  Mexico hasn't received information on that. And the, and the, the head of, of national security for Mexico made a point to say we aren't in the loop with this.

• 1:17:54Shawn Ryan?

  How do you think we defeat them? I'm just curious. Have you thought about that all?

• 1:17:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think about that all the time. And people ask me that all the time, and people ask that because they wanna see it happen. But how does that happen?

• 1:18:09Speaker 03

  It's, it would be a multifaceted approach, like there's no silver bullet. We both know this.

• 1:18:17Speaker 03

  And it's very complicated because they're so, they have their claws so enthralled in every aspect. You know, whether it's the ways that they're diversifying their revenue in oil and gas and whatever it is, but also in politics and internationally. So, to defeat this Fortune 500 corporation that's armed to the max and is always a step ahead, it would be a matter of cracking down on extreme intelligence gathering, finding out where the main guys are, dismantling them and their local networks,

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  dismantling their online propaganda projects, tackling the people particularly who are under the radar and in charge of laundering a lot of the money, setting up the shell companies. The remittance, uh, the remittance sites that are allowing these cartels ways to, to launder their money internationally. The banks, it goes so deep. It wouldn't just be a matter of go get the big guy like when they got El Mayo this summer.

• 1:19:30Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  You have to tackle the finances.

• 1:19:38Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I think a lot about this. I mean, I don't think, you know, you know, we just did that for 20 years and, and the war on terror, you know, taking out leaders. I think the number two had like a two-week life expectancy, but every time you take one out, it's,

• 1:19:51Speaker 03

  New one's in.

• 1:19:52Shawn Ryan?

  New one's in. And so I don't think taking out just the leadership would work.

• 1:19:56Speaker 03

  What do you think needs to happen?

• 1:19:58Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I don't know. I mean, if we infiltrated, it would be extremely bloody just because of the amount of people that are involved in the cartel. It wouldn't work if you just took out the leadership, but you know, I just, from the years of covering this, you know, here and there and throughout with, with the different, uh, people that I've had on, I, I, I think that the way to do it would be, and I don't know, I just, like I said, it's been a minute since I've talked about this, but I don't know how, um...

• 1:20:28Shawn Ryan?

  How combative the cartels are towards each other anymore, but I think what I would do is I would probably create some type of a

• 1:20:38Shawn Ryan?

  psychological operation that pits the cartels against each other and in

• 1:20:46Shawn Ryan?

  basically create a false narrative so that this cartel and this cartel hate each other and they go to war with each other and then find ways to intervene and you know what I mean?

• 1:20:56Speaker 03

  Well, that's basically what's happening in Sinaloa.

• 1:20:58Shawn Ryan?

  Is that what's happening there?

• 1:20:59Speaker 03

  I mean, El Mayo was brought to the US kidnapped allegedly and now we're in real time watching watching the fall of the Sinaloa cartel.

• 1:21:09Shawn Ryan?

  Just from Poland him?

• 1:21:10Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:21:11Shawn Ryan?

  Well, then maybe.

• 1:21:12Speaker 03

  El Chapo was gone. Now El Mayo is gone and the infighting began and just like a house of cards, it's falling in on itself. But to the same point, CJ and G swoops in, says, we will make an alliance, Chapitos and us. Which, you know, how real can that alliance be when they've been sworn enemies?

• 1:21:37Speaker 03

  And what's essentially going to happen is CJ and G is going to take over that faction and take over Sinaloa. So great. What your suggestion was work to completely dismantle the Sinaloa cartel that has been operating for forever and was at one point, one of the largest cartels in Mexican history. But now we have CJ and G. So what you do the same thing with them?

• 1:22:01Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:02Speaker 03

  And it just keeps going on and on until they're done. With the supply and demand for drugs.

• 1:22:09Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, how many cartel members were eliminated, you know, in that scuffle between those?

• 1:22:15Speaker 03

  Oh, at this point?

• 1:22:18Speaker 03

  Hundreds.

• 1:22:21Speaker 03

  That were operating, operating with the with the Sinaloa cartel?

• 1:22:25Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:25Speaker 03

  People of importance? Yeah.

• 1:22:28Shawn Ryan?

  Dead men doesn't have to be people of importance. I mean, it all there's also a psychological factor as well where

• 1:22:36Shawn Ryan?

  maybe these weren't as brutal as they are now.

• 1:22:41Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 1:22:42Shawn Ryan?

  Or it could be.

• 1:22:42Speaker 03

  Enough people were eliminated for this cartel to not be functioning, basically, at this point.

• 1:22:48Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm, mm hmm.

• 1:22:50Speaker 03

  And for them to have to strike a deal with a, an enemy cartel, an adversary.

• 1:22:55Shawn Ryan?

  How many big ones are there?

• 1:22:57Speaker 03

  Cartels in Mexico?

• 1:22:58Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, how many big ones?

• 1:23:00Speaker 03

  Okay, well.

• 1:23:01Shawn Ryan?

  Who are the three, the top three?

• 1:23:03Speaker 03

  I would say the top three, CG and G, the Gulf Cartel, Cartel del Noreste, and well, Sinaloa, I'll keep it still there, so.

• 1:23:13Shawn Ryan?

  And they're, and they're crumbling, Sinaloa.

• 1:23:15Speaker 03

  Sinaloa is crumbling, yeah, that's why I didn't put it in top three, but it would certainly be in top three. Um, and I think the US designated eight of them, if I'm not mistaken, as foreign terrorist organizations, which included all those I mentioned and a few more, um. But, for example, like, there were certain factions of, of cartels or fragmented versions of cartels that were not on that list. And when you have fragmented groups of a previously stronghold cartel still existing, those groups end up, uh, attaching on to a, a, a larger cartel that's operating. And it just makes them stronger because they gain more territory, they gain access to more people, more guns.

• 1:24:03Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think happens if we go to China and we're able to stop the precursors from being shipped?

• 1:24:08Speaker 03

  It doesn't matter because the Sinaloa cartel is now, it just came out, uh, a few months ago, uh, is taking chemistry students from universities in Sinaloa and having them try to figure out how to make the precursors.

• 1:24:21Shawn Ryan?

  Is it working?

• 1:24:23Speaker 03

  I don't know, we'll have to wait and see. I, I have a feeling that there's probably batches out on the streets or they're preparing batches that have these homemade precursors now. We'll see if it works. It's just like what happened with fentanyl. You, you have to see what happens with the streets. But from what I can tell and the people in Sinaloa that I've spoken to, they're still yet to make those precursors, uh, tangible enough to actually make the fentanyl from them. But they're already trying to cut out China.

• 1:24:55Shawn Ryan?

  They're trying to cut China out.

• 1:24:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, by making the precursors.

• 1:24:59Shawn Ryan?

  That's why they're doing it? They wanna cut China?

• 1:25:01Speaker 03

  Cut China out. Increase your profits. Cut out that middleman, not even a middleman, because they're supplying the necessary goods to produce this deadly drug. But once, once the cartels figure out how to make the precursors,

• 1:25:17Speaker 03

  fentanyl will become more accessible than ever before, more deadly than ever before. And I think the US certainly knows that the cartels are trying to make the precursors, which is definitely a big part of the reason of the crackdown.

• 1:25:34Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, it seems like they wouldn't wanna cut China out.

• 1:25:36Speaker 03

  Why not?

• 1:25:37Shawn Ryan?

  Because, just because, I mean, even though they don't have the same goals, I think the cartel's money and China is the reverse opium war.

• 1:25:45Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:45Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I mean, it they serve each other well. I guess is what I'm saying. And so, that's, that's interesting that they wanna cut them out. I would think that they wanna align more, but...

• 1:25:57Speaker 03

  I don't think it would be a, they would cut them out in a way where it ends on bad terms.

• 1:26:02Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:26:02Speaker 03

  But rather, it would just streamline the fentanyl production. Would they still probably bring in some of the precursors? Yeah, supplement the, the supply. But it won't be to the same extent, and it wouldn't end with a bad taste in anyone's mouth, because certainly they leverage a good relationship with China.

• 1:26:20Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Interesting. Let's take another quick break.

• 1:27:02Speaker 04

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• 1:27:40Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Caterina, we're back from the break. I wanted to ask you one thing too, um, that's just kind of, kind of out there about the TikTok influencer that got killed.

• 1:27:52Speaker 03

  Valeria.

• 1:27:52Shawn Ryan?

  Live streaming.

• 1:27:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. So Valeria was a famous influencer in Mexico. She had that buchona look, which is, you know, the, the body, small waist, you know, curves, long blonde hair from Guadalajara. And Guadalajara is a hotspot. It's the CGNG, you know, birthplace, Jalisco. And so a lot of people followed her because she was pretty, but also because she was always on, on live streaming, uh, keeping it pretty real. She would just eat her favorite snacks on there. And actually, since she was murdered, people in her memory have been like buying her favorite

• 1:28:34Speaker 03

  snacks and posting about it and to keep her alive. Now she's on this live stream and she's at her beauty salon that she owned. And she tells the audience that she's been told she's receiving three gifts that day. And the last one is going to be an expensive gift. And so she's kind of talking through, she's excited. And a friend of hers is also at the salon with her. And first she gets a Starbucks, a delivery man comes by, drops a Starbucks and...

• 1:29:14Speaker 03

  I think at that same delivery, she got a plushy of a pig. And it's so interesting because in Mexico too, uh, like a pig or a pig's head is really significant. You know, it's like puercos. So you get, uh, a lot of the times too, people will, in Guadalajara even, when people take out hits, they'll leave a pig's head on top of that person. Uh, show that person was dirty or vile, whatever the message it may be. And she got that plushy and then she gets flowers and then she's waiting for her third most expensive gift. And she starts saying in the live stream, she goes, "Ya me on die."

• 1:29:57Speaker 03

  Like, "I'm, I'm creeped out. Something's wrong." And you can tell she's kind of on edge.

• 1:30:04Speaker 03

  And she says, "You know what, girls, I think I'm gonna go. I'm kinda creeped out." And her friend tells her behind the camera, "No, you can't go. There's another gift coming for you."

• 1:30:17Speaker 03

  And some context to this is that Valeria had received gifts from viewers before. She really liked gifts and she would talk about how she would, uh, date men who would give her extravagant gifts. And a lot of viewers would send her things. And someone comments in the chat, "You shouldn't tell people where you are." And she says, "Well, you know, everyone knows that this is my salon," something along those lines.

• 1:30:48Speaker 03

  And then a delivery man comes, she's looking out and she mutes the live. And then you just see her take three bullets and the first bullet, I've watched this video so many times at this point. She's wearing like a chain necklace and, and the first bullet, because people were saying it was fake and that it didn't look like the bullet even hit her, but the first bullet hits her necklace and her necklace goes flying off. It hits the pendant, the whole necklace goes flying off. She gets shot again and then she gets shot in the head. And she's like slumped over and her hair is covering her whole face. So the video is really jarring because you're seeing a woman get murdered on live, get being shot three times. But it's not like this cinematic boom, boom, boom, and she's all bludgeoned and

• 1:31:32Speaker 03

  she just kind of slumps in and she's holding the pig plushy too, dead.

• 1:31:39Speaker 03

  And the friend comes over, picks up the phone and turns off the live stream.

• 1:31:45Speaker 03

  And people were saying, you know, you didn't hear screaming, but it's important to keep in mind she muted the live. Why did she mute the live? If she was so scared, why didn't she? Leave? She already had that feeling. And so people are saying that the friend set her up. Or that her ex-boyfriend, who is allegedly part of organized crime. Uh. I want to say like objectively, just an unattractive guy, especially for a girl who is, she's very beautiful. She had a very striking look. Um. They say he was responsible for it. But. The interesting thing is, you know.

• 1:32:29Speaker 03

  Where is the forensics in Mexico? And investigation?

• 1:32:34Speaker 03

  She was murdered now like weeks ago at this point. And. Nobody. Has come out to say who the main suspects are. Uh, what the state of the investigation is.

• 1:32:48Speaker 03

  And this became international news because. There's this beautiful. Girl being murdered on TikTok livestream.

• 1:32:58Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 1:32:58Speaker 03

  And people interacting with her as she's talking about being scared. People in the comments were even saying to her. If you feel weirded out or uncomfortable, just go home. I mean, if this was a hit.

• 1:33:16Speaker 03

  That was planned on her. Then. It would have happened no matter where she was. Then you have a lot of conspiracy theorists or people, conspiracies going around saying that she didn't actually die. She was probably being threatened and so she faked her death on live and that it was AI and um. It doesn't, the way the blood splatters on the table and the way she falls over, holding the plushy. It just doesn't look like someone who had been shot three times.

• 1:33:45Speaker 03

  So this, though, the murder speaks volumes to the state of Mexico, like the entire country. Because over the past couple of months, a lot of YouTubers and social media influencers have fallen victim to being publicly murdered like this. Whether they have narco ties or not is one thing, but this is certainly sending a message. If you do not do what we say, or follow our agenda, especially with the large platform you have, or you do us dirty, you're dead.

• 1:34:26Speaker 03

  And, you know, the problem too with this being so publicized is there's a lot of false information that's coming out and a lot of false theories that people are taking and running with as if it's fact. So, and then people are also editing fake videos of her. Um, I saw one video of her and it's very hard to tell if it's real or not, where she's got a song in the background and she's kind of like, uh, lip syncing it. And the caption on the video is like, uh, basically to the gist of, you know, use men for what they can give you, enjoy the benefits of it, but you know, basically like have multiple guys who can give you nice things and don't get attached.

• 1:35:11Speaker 03

  And people were saying, you know, she was a gold digger who messed with the wrong person and she got her karma, which at the end of the day, someone was murdered, so it's really fucked up to say that, even if this isn't a perfect victim to you. But it's also hard to tell what is real and what isn't about her because it's such a publicized case. She had such a large platform on social media and there doesn't seem to be much transparency with her investigation.

• 1:35:43Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think she was murdered?

• 1:35:46Speaker 03

  One of two reasons. So I, I have two theories. I think the one that sticks out to me the most is she was probably dating the wrong guys. She, she didn't grow up wealthy. She came from very humble beginnings and I think that, you know, she was a beautiful girl. And she used that to her advantage. Dated guys who were cartel associates, part of organized crime. And she pissed someone off. She had already posted previously on her Instagram. Um, screenshots of messages with a boyfriend. Where he was threatening to kill her and said, you've never seen me mad and you don't want to see me mad. But you're going to force me to do something I don't want to do.

• 1:36:31Speaker 03

  And she posted and said, if something happens to me or, or my family, it's this guy. So that's what I think happened is that she broke up with a guy who had a very fragile ego. Ego or she did him dirty in some way. In the, in terms of their relationship and he sought revenge. And he did it publicly to send a message. It makes sense to do it on live. This is what happens if you're gonna fuck with me or make a fool of me. You die.

• 1:37:04Speaker 03

  And the way that the message was set up, you know, getting the pig plushy. Three gifts and then the last one is the most expensive and you get three bullets.

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  That's, it's, it looks like a narco hit. Uh, but then there is that other part of me that maybe wonders, you know, maybe. Maybe that so-called friend wasn't actually a friend. Because.

• 1:37:30Speaker 03

  I talked to my best friend about it and I said, what would you do if we were just sitting there and I got shot? Because, you know, especially with this job, I run the risk. And she said, I would freak out and she goes, I don't think that I would even have the capacity to think. About picking up your phone and turning off the live and, and then attending to you. The first thing would be to attend to the person.

• 1:37:55Speaker 03

  But that's purely speculation.

• 1:37:57Shawn Ryan?

  Was the shooter on video?

• 1:37:58Speaker 03

  There is CCTV video of a, of a guy coming up on a motorcycle outside.

• 1:38:03Shawn Ryan?

  On the livestream, though?

• 1:38:05Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:38:05Shawn Ryan?

  So maybe she, maybe she shut it off before that, I mean, he's probably wearing a mask, but maybe she shut it off before that reveal happened.

• 1:38:14Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, because the phone is facing her and she's, she's facing the window. So you can see when she's receiving these gifts or you can see when she sees someone comes up to give her a gift. And her friend was on the other side in the salon.

• 1:38:29Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha.

• 1:38:29Speaker 03

  And then some people are saying, well, if you look at where the bullets came from, they didn't come from in front, they came from the side and the friend probably took that moment to shoot her. But this also happens a lot in Mexico, um, I mean, anywhere, you know? The pretty girl gets killed, i- i- it's like the Gabby Petito case, it becomes this huge debacle. And there's so many theories, but in Mexico, it's particularly distinct because there is also that element of organized crime and corruption and lack of oversight in investigations. And so something like this happens and people want justice. Are you gonna get that justice? It depends on who the perpetrator is.

• 1:39:13Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh, uh huh.

• 1:39:17Shawn Ryan?

  How about propaganda? How are they recruiting? What are they using?

• 1:39:22Speaker 03

  Propaganda, I would say, you know, it's funny because you asked me, how do you tackle the cartels and this whole issue? I think propaganda, based on what I've seen, is one of the major components that needs to be tackled first. And we're no- we're nowhere near there. Because propaganda at this point, cartel propaganda, is deeply entrenched in every aspect of Mexican culture, society, and daily life.

• 1:39:49Shawn Ryan?

  How so?

• 1:39:49Speaker 03

  So. First things first, the music, okay? You have these narco corridos, songs that are literally dedicated to certain capos or certain cartels, and they are fully blatantly glamorizing this lifestyle. The singers are, you know, whether it's, uh, Peso Pluma Junior H, Nathan Elcano, there's so many of them, the list goes on, but they're super popular. They top charts in Mexico and in the United States, too. In their music videos, they have the Rolex presidential, whole Gucci outfit,

• 1:40:31Speaker 03

  and they're singing about, you know, they're being, they're strapped up with the scar, and they drive the cars around that are fully armored. They get their money, they're selling the merchandise, and they make this life seem so enticing. You have so much money, you have all these hot girls, you have all of, everything that's trendy, and you have a great beat to accompany it. Because I, I must say, like, sometimes I listen to these songs too, and I'm like, this is great. This is a great song. But what it's, the narrative it's pushing is absolutely horrible. And so, the Mexican government has tried to crack down on this.

• 1:41:15Speaker 03

  I mean, corridos have been banned in Sinaloa for a while, and a lot of other states have banned this music genre in public places, at establishments, uh, at concerts. Actually, a lot of Mexican musicians are now being sanctioned and having their visas revoked by the US, uh, for their lyrics, what they're singing, because it so explicitly promotes cartel propaganda. And the Mexican government plays their role, and, and the federal government actually just put out this initiative, Mexico Canta, Mexico Sings, uh, to encourage people to participate in like this,

• 1:41:56Speaker 03

  basically a competition where you can play music, you have a band, or sing a song, original singer-songwriter, whatever it is, but that has nothing to do with cartels or narco propaganda. And...

• 1:42:11Speaker 03

  The interesting thing is, when the Mexican government talks about this genre of music, they particularly focus on violence against women, violent acts, and drug trafficking. What they're missing, that is the key point, is, hey, young people, this is propaganda. This life is actually not as cool as these songs are making them seem to be. This is how you die. This is how you end up like Valeria. You wanna be that pretty girl with a rich guy on your side? Yeah, well, guess what? He might kill you afterwards.

• 1:42:46Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 1:42:48Speaker 03

  And a lot of these young people in Mexico certainly fall for it, and I don't blame them. You're being inundated with this music, these TV shows, this culture, that's promoting a lifestyle that on the surface seems so luxurious. Wouldn't you wanna have the extra cash too? You're growing up in a place where both of your parents are working very hard and, you know, maybe you can't even afford your schooling. But Buddy on the radio is telling you that you could pick up your parents in a G-Wagon.

• 1:43:23Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 1:43:24Speaker 03

  You just have to take part of this lifestyle. And so, the propaganda is deep in the pop culture. On the other hand, you have blatant forms of propaganda, um, through social media, which now has exploded for them. I mean, it's, social media is a major tool for the cartels. And Mexico has also tried to crack down on this. They're constantly banning TikTok accounts that are promoting cartel propaganda or trying to recruit people.

• 1:43:57Shawn Ryan?

  What does that propaganda look like? What is it?

• 1:43:59Speaker 03

  On TikTok?

• 1:44:00Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:01Speaker 03

  It's...

• 1:44:02Shawn Ryan?

  Is it the same stuff, luxurious lifestyle, lots of flashy shit?

• 1:44:06Speaker 03

  It's the flashy shit, but it's also the actual operations. You'll have like a good song, and they're showing, uh, them loading up kilos into a light aircraft and flying it across Pablo Escobar style.

• 1:44:19Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:44:19Speaker 03

  They kind of switch the aesthetic based on whichever platform they're on and who they're trying to appeal to.

• 1:44:24Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha.

• 1:44:25Speaker 03

  So...

• 1:44:27Speaker 03

  You have those type of TikTok accounts and they're showing the money, they're showing the guns, but they're also showing the actual warfare. They are showing some of the ugly side of it, but they're making it seem cool. It's like militarized.

• 1:44:37Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:44:38Speaker 03

  And then you'll have a link in the bio of that TikTok account that you click it and it directly opens a WhatsApp group chat. That's the beginning step of cartel recruitment.

• 1:44:46Shawn Ryan?

  No kidding.

• 1:44:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're joining this group chat and you have certain higher level operatives for the cartel in there that will ask you certain questions or tell you what you're getting into. And then they vet you based on your answers to those questions or the personal information you give. Then you move into a different group chat and then another one and it kind of goes down the steps, uh, to the point where you're then in direct contact with high level cartel operatives who are actively helping you get into the cartel. And literally to the point where it's like, okay, a car will come and pick you up from your address now, now that you've shown us that you are willing to be a part of our,

• 1:45:29Speaker 03

  our group. And it'll take you to a bus station. You get on that bus, you're gonna meet us here and you're gonna train for six months in the mountains of Puerto Vallarta. So the social media is just the first step to this. And it's major for them because without numbers, without this support, the cartels can't function. And if you have vulnerable, impressionable young people who are looking for a fatter paycheck, who are enamored by this lifestyle and who want to be a part of something, you have the perfect victim. And you take them in and you absolutely abuse the shit out of them and dehumanize them

• 1:46:09Speaker 03

  and you, you turn them into a machine and you give them some money. And now this is the beginning part of, of someone working for the cartel.

• 1:46:18Shawn Ryan?

  How do they advance? Is this all like family members that stay at the top or how do you advance if you're, you know?

• 1:46:25Speaker 03

  Just a new guy?

• 1:46:27Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, that's just wanted to get recruited and get in there.

• 1:46:30Speaker 03

  So it is mainly family members, but then it's about proving your loyalty. How much are you going to do for us? And especially if when you prove your loyalty, it's successful. So a good example of this could be, um,

• 1:46:44Speaker 03

  You're starting off, you're, you know, fresh in the cartel. You just got out of the training. And then you find out that one of the National Guard members that you guys are paying off is actually acting as an informant or also on the adversary's payroll, whatever the case may be, right? And then you go and you tell the boss, hey, I know this, this and this. I'll go kill him or I'll go torture him.

• 1:47:19Speaker 03

  Then you move your way up. Or, hey, I know a way that we can move this much of, this amount of undetected fentanyl from one American state to another. No one's gonna figure it out and I have a good connect over there. Let's do it. Okay, they run the operation. Profits increase. Now you're on your way up.

• 1:47:45Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, true.

• 1:47:46Speaker 03

  It's action-based and really showing loyalty, your willingness to die for the organization. But this all starts off, yeah, on social media. It's, it's ridiculous and the Mexican government has done like a crackdown. They've removed multiple TikTok accounts, but there can only be so much oversight with that. Social media is so vast and particularly when you have young people who are using a tool that didn't exist before, because cartel propaganda has always existed. We've seen like in Juarez back in the early 2000s and even today. But, you know, you have people hanging from bridges, pants pulled down and a narco manta

• 1:48:29Speaker 03

  on top of them, a message to whoever is next, or this is what will happen to you if you act like these rats. That's a form of propaganda, but that is tangible blatant propaganda. You bring social media into the mix. It fucks up the whole game because how, how do you apply any oversight to this? How do you ensure that young people aren't being targeted just through the phone that they always have in their hand?

• 1:48:58Speaker 03

  And that's why the social influencers, media influencers are main targets. A major YouTuber in Mexico, Marquito's Toys, he has millions of subscribers, he shows this flashy lifestyle, he's from Sinaloa. His brother was murdered in Baja California.

• 1:49:17Speaker 03

  And then, it's constant, it's constant.

• 1:49:20Shawn Ryan?

  Are you saying they're murdering influencers as part of the propaganda machine?

• 1:49:25Speaker 03

  It's certainly part of the propaganda, because it sends a loud message. And I think a lot of these influencers also have a role, their role in organized crime. Uh, whether it's laundering money or pushing some sort of narrative.

• 1:49:40Speaker 03

  In Mexico, a lot of the time when you make a lot of money, or you gain a platform, somehow the cartel will find a way to use you.

• 1:49:51Speaker 03

  To push their agenda forward.

• 1:49:52Shawn Ryan?

  What kind of narrative would they be sending out? Through an influencer?

• 1:49:58Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly this, the propaganda, that they're not the bad guys. That this is, or that this is a luxury lifestyle and you should be part of it.

• 1:50:08Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, so it's basically, it's essentially the same thing as the songs?

• 1:50:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's the recruitment, and also to put pressure on their adversaries. So, the music does it too, the YouTubers do it too, it's very much like, "Where was CJ and G? Cuatro letras? Fuck whoever else our adversary is." And it garners larger support throughout the population for that one cartel. Like even nowadays, people will ask me, "Who do you want to win in Sinaloa? Chapo or Mayo?" And I'm like, "What do you mean?" And there are, people have those conversations.

• 1:50:48Speaker 03

  I will be at a, at a regular, uh, dinner with people who have absolutely nothing to do with this. They're completely out of the realm and they're talking about which side of the faction they support. And that's what the propaganda is doing.

• 1:51:01Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think they're using reporters like yourself as part of their propaganda machine?

• 1:51:07Speaker 03

  I think so, and I think that's why a lot of reporters die, are murdered. Because a lot of reporters don't wanna be a part of that. But for the most part, they have no choice, especially people who are working for small to medium sized outlets in regions where there is such a cartel stronghold. And they don't want certain news stories to get out, or they want certain news stories to get out with a narrative. Yeah, and they're not even getting paid for that. It's just a life or death scenario.

• 1:51:34Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:51:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:36Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. How much of this, how much of the cartel's money are they, are they, or how much money in general are they seeding into US politics?

• 1:51:49Speaker 03

  A lot of the cartel money is in the US, point blank. Whether that is through, uh, the shell companies or certain operations that they're conducting in the US. In terms of politics.

• 1:52:05Speaker 03

  There are a number of US politicians or US authorities in law enforcement

• 1:52:15Speaker 03

  that are on the cartel payroll.

• 1:52:19Speaker 03

  For the most part, this happens in border towns or in states that are m- major profit regions for the cartel. So that's California, Texas, Arizona.

• 1:52:31Shawn Ryan?

  So are these local governments or all the, all the way up to?

• 1:52:36Speaker 03

  It goes up high on the food chain.

• 1:52:39Shawn Ryan?

  How high?

• 1:52:41Shawn Ryan?

  How high are they getting?

• 1:52:42Speaker 03

  To the federal level.

• 1:52:43Shawn Ryan?

  To the federal level?

• 1:52:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:46Speaker 03

  I, I, I've seen it firsthand.

• 1:52:48Shawn Ryan?

  What, who in the federal level?

• 1:52:52Shawn Ryan?

  Senators, congressmen? What are we talking about? FBI agents? What, do you have any idea?

• 1:52:59Speaker 03

  On the federal level,

• 1:53:02Speaker 03

  cartels have basically infiltrated any member of politics that they believe they can get to that is willing to work with them. And that can push policy that directly benefits them. So whether it's senators, congressmen, DEA, ICE even,

• 1:53:28Speaker 03

  they have their claws in all of these departments.

• 1:53:32Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think these people know that it's the cartel? Who's influencing them?

• 1:53:38Speaker 03

  I think a lot of them do.

• 1:53:41Shawn Ryan?

  How would you know?

• 1:53:43Speaker 03

  How would I know that these people know? Or how would they know?

• 1:53:46Shawn Ryan?

  Would the cartel want these people to know that that's who the, I mean, basically, it's lobbying, right? So would the cartel want their quote unquote lobbying firm? Being known as, I would think they wouldn't want them known as, this is a cartel lobbying firm, this is set up by, you know, the Sinaloa or whoever. I think, I think, I think if I was them, I would try to get my narrative or whatever I'm lobbying for to appear as something innocent or just money driven or, you, do you see what I'm saying? I, I, I wouldn't want the,

• 1:54:34Shawn Ryan?

  I wouldn't want the individual to know that it's coming from a cartel. Because that would, that would,

• 1:54:39Speaker 03

  It's less incentivizing and it's blatantly illegal. Um, it happens both ways. So certainly they have these lobbying groups set up or they can push their agenda in a way where it doesn't seem like it's directly coming from them. Now, at the end of the day, I have an issue with this because I find that it's hard not to know. Anyone with half a brain, especially if you're in a, a high ranking position of power, you can dig deep enough to figure it out.

• 1:55:11Speaker 03

  And they do have ways to use it to their advantage with certain companies they have and and and

• 1:55:21Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, what would they, I mean, you wouldn't have to, like, what's an obvious one? An obvious one they would be lobbying for would be border security, right?

• 1:55:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:55:31Shawn Ryan?

  So, nobody would have to know that it's the cartel that's lobbying for that, um, specific, you know, for the border. They could just, they could do the, you know, they could just get a group of people that

• 1:55:45Shawn Ryan?

  here in, I mean, the US is very divided. They could just get somebody that thinks that we should have open borders and create that group and fund it. And then all it is is just a bunch of people that want to let illegal immigrants through, you know what I mean? And they, and they, and they lobby that. So it doesn't, it doesn't have to, that's how I would do it. I mean, but what other things would they be lobbying for other than open borders?

• 1:56:10Speaker 03

  It would be open borders. It would be lack of oversight of agriculture coming from Mexico.

• 1:56:16Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 1:56:17Speaker 03

  Um, it would certainly be, uh, drug policies, so like safe supply stuff. Um, and also, I think a major one

• 1:56:31Speaker 03

  would be the arms dealing too, because the majority of, of the guns that are used at Mexican crime scenes, like 70% are American-made firearms.

• 1:56:42Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 1:56:43Speaker 03

  So, all of their guns are coming from, most of their guns are coming from the US. And so, they're not going to want that to shut down or to stop at any point in time.

• 1:56:54Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:56:55Speaker 03

  Because without those weapons, they can't commit the crimes.

• 1:56:57Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:56:58Speaker 03

  And because it, it, you can't really get a gun in Mexico the way you can get a gun here, which is exactly why they use that to their advantage. So, that would be, and not to mention, a lot of the straw buyers too are moving guns from the US into Canada to arm these same people. So that's a big one that I, I believe that they're lobbying for. I mean, yeah, the border one is a big one, but

• 1:57:22Speaker 03

  Without the guns, they can't run any of their operations.

• 1:57:28Speaker 03

  But you asked, you know, why would they want? People to know that they are a cartel if they're lobbying or have certain, they have money in certain re- uh, aspects of, of the federal government. I think in some ways, sometimes them instilling that fear does work depending on what the initiative is.

• 1:57:48Speaker 03

  And I think they do use that to their advantage sometimes. And there are certain people that they can have in their pockets. Knowing that the fear and knowing that the cartel is on my ass is going to keep them doing exactly what they want. And keep them from moving away or speaking out because once you have the cartel on your ass, the only way to get out of that is, is basically to die.

• 1:58:14Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58:16Speaker 03

  That's certainly less of the circumstance, but it, it is happening.

• 1:58:21Shawn Ryan?

  How are they using the migrant crisis as a tool?

• 1:58:27Speaker 03

  Like people crossing the border? As a tool for what?

• 1:58:31Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:34Shawn Ryan?

  Cartels control over human crossings, including children, the use of distraction groups to tie up Border Patrol and the human cost rape, enslavement and exploitation of migrants. It sounds I have it as they're using it as a tool for all these things. Can you elaborate on any of that or?

• 1:58:53Speaker 03

  I mean,

• 1:58:56Speaker 03

  I have no idea.

• 1:58:57Shawn Ryan?

  What is the use of distraction groups?

• 1:59:00Speaker 03

  The use of distraction groups is so that they can get people and, and drugs across the border. There was actually just a video about this. It was in, um, in Texas where you have these five guys in a pickup truck and they're doing donuts around. And, um, a- all the CBP pulls up on them and they're trying to outrun them. Well, at the same time that's happening, there's people, a coyote illegally crossing people or drugs across the border. And that's a really common tool that they use where they'll, you know, they're trying to distract them one way and do something else. They, they do these smokescreens and not just blatantly like that at the border, but with a lot of other actions too. Um.

• 1:59:43Speaker 03

  Especially when

• 1:59:44Shawn Ryan?

  So they're just creating a bunch of diversions.

• 1:59:46Speaker 03

  Yes, they're creating a bunch of diversions. Uh, they'll do this too, especially if there's like a high level person who needs to get around. And that can't typically cross in uh into Mexico or the US vice versa. Their regular border crossing and they need to move this person and in a stealth way. So they've gotten very good at knowing what captures American authorities attention? And how to use that so they can run these profitable or high level operations at the same time that something else is going on.

• 2:00:24Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think they're aware of all the tech that we're implementing along the border wall and what exactly it does? Do you have any insight on that?

• 2:00:32Speaker 03

  I think that they, okay, so with the people I've spoken to, especially who are working in organized crime in border regions. They know that the the border tech has been amped up. In terms of to what extent?

• 2:00:50Speaker 03

  Not as much as they should, they don't know as much as they should know. But they are very hopeful. I sound like a spokesperson for the cartel. That's not the point here. Oh, my God. Is this is just, you know, relaying the information. But they're very hopeful in their ability to adapt because they've always done it. It's it's just a matter of what has changed? How has the US ramped it up? The same thing they do with the Mexican government, actually. Okay, you want to put these troops here? Oh, you want to implement this? Uh, I don't know. Thermal technology that can tell you if someone's even close to the border along the over 2,000 miles that it spans. We're gonna find a way around that. They typically do that and and that's why they've been so successful and profitable.

• 2:01:36Speaker 03

  In every operation. But I don't want to sound like a spokesperson for the cartel and I sometimes, you know, talking about exactly how they're reacting to certain things or, but they do adapt, that's one thing. There's a crackdown and they find another way. I mean, it just happened in Sinaloa. The US and Mexico were trying so hard, had this whole operation to get the main security enforcer for the Sinaloa cartel, La Peris.

• 2:02:03Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:03Speaker 03

  They get him, there's a new guy in, and he's bigger and better than ever before. I mean, they'll always find a way around it. Oh, Trump and his first administration is cracking down on the southern border? Fuck it, let's go to Canada.

• 2:02:18Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:19Speaker 03

  And so you can put border technology across all 2,000 miles of the southern border and have it to the point where it is like Guantanamo Bay. It's, they find a way. Because if human smuggling and drug trafficking is just that profitable for them, where they're making billions, tens of billions of dollars a year, by doing it, they will find a way around it. I mean, wouldn't that be an incentive for you?

• 2:02:45Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:47Speaker 03

  And would you find a way around it?

• 2:02:49Shawn Ryan?

  I would try. The thing is, I don't, I mean, I don't know how much we've actually, it's still to this day, I don't know how much we've actually pushed them, you know what I mean? I, I think, you know, if it, if we get serious about this, I don't think they will find a way. But...

• 2:03:07Speaker 03

  And I agree with you. I, I don't think they will either. Because cartels against full-fledged US government?

• 2:03:15Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:03:16Speaker 03

  That's just a complete power imbalance.

• 2:03:18Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:18Speaker 03

  The issue stands with, the US hasn't pushed as hard as it could. And so, the cartels do feel somewhat untouchable. I mean, there are certain actions that, you know, you extradite the 29 capos, you get El Mayo into the States, you cracked out fentanyl seizures at the border have gone down significantly. Okay, but that's really just the tip of the iceberg. And they're so used to operating in a country with so much corruption and impunity where money talks, that if you had a government come in where none of that works, the old tricks don't work on this new dog, it would have to be a complete overhaul for them. And like we talked about, there's certainly...

• 2:04:04Speaker 03

  Preparing for this.

• 2:04:06Shawn Ryan?

  Have you heard any rumors about cartels aligning with traditional terrorist organizations?

• 2:04:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:14Shawn Ryan?

  What does that look like?

• 2:04:15Speaker 03

  Especially with Iran. That's a huge thing. In terms of training, what kind of weaponry they need. And intelligence is a big one, particularly when targeting America. So.

• 2:04:32Speaker 03

  I know that there was an operation with Canadian authorities that were looking into organized crime groups operating with

• 2:04:44Speaker 03

  terrorist groups and particularly in Iran. And the main objective of this was to find out how the efforts between the two were directly impacting Canadian intelligence efforts. So they were trying to compromise all of the intelligence gathering and covert operations that were going on through attacking their intelligence. And the thing about the Mexican drug cartels is especially since Trump's first administration,

• 2:05:27Speaker 03

  they have had to amp up their efforts in knowing what the US's next move is going to be. Because the US's next move determines just how much money they're going to make and how they have to adapt. And so Iran and Mexican drug cartels do have a connection, and this is with high-ups of the drug cartels,

• 2:05:53Speaker 03

  to understand how the US is operating their intelligence,

• 2:05:59Speaker 03

  what type of actions the US could potentially take or is taking silently against drug cartels, and ensure that they kind of build a firewall around themselves.

• 2:06:15Speaker 03

  In terms of weaponry,

• 2:06:18Speaker 03

  a lot of the techniques and certain arms that drug cartels are using, particularly now,

• 2:06:26Speaker 03

  have been learned from

• 2:06:30Speaker 03

  organized terrorist groups that have been around forever.

• 2:06:36Speaker 03

  And

• 2:06:38Speaker 03

  on a side note, it goes into their propaganda too, because Mexican drug cartels post that typical press release video, um, admitting or denying a certain fatal tragedy that occurred, or something that like a big news story. They address it head on. They have the script. They have the lighting. They even have the logo, the banner on it, the background music, just like the same way ISIS was doing and the Taliban.

• 2:07:07Speaker 03

  And those videos now, like when ISIS and the Taliban was doing it, it was on social media, whatever, but it was mainly being sent to news outlets, or you know, they were posting it on their page. It was, it was more, um, confined, whereas now it's, it's just, you put it out there and it spreads like a virus.

• 2:07:28Speaker 03

  And so a lot of their techniques, which is why it's interesting that it took so long to declare Mexican drug cartels as foreign terrorist organizations, because a lot of their techniques, whether it comes to gathering intelligence or infiltrating uh, the US or Canada, and

• 2:07:45Speaker 03

  the way they are able to manage public perception of themselves, it completely matches that of traditional terrorist groups.

• 2:07:57Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:07:59Speaker 03

  The only difference I would say is the way a lot of these traditional terrorist groups would directly go and attack Americans, right? Like there was a bomb, there was a shooting, someone drove through a crowd. For Mexican drug cartels, it's, it's chemical warfare, it's drugs. They don't need to go and plant a bomb in the name of, of drug cartels.

• 2:08:27Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think it'll ever get kinetic with um down at the southern border?

• 2:08:34Speaker 03

  If if American boots hit Mexican soil. I've been saying this and I really do believe that if American, especially tier one operators, get into get into Mexico. We're going to see that traditional terrorism style happen in the US, particularly along the border region. Because at that point, it's like what we said, they have nothing to lose and they will go down with a fight. And if they're already working with traditional terrorist groups, they know what the playbook says.

• 2:09:06Shawn Ryan?

  Man, that's terrifying to hear. What do you think? The US and Canada should be doing that we're not doing?

• 2:09:19Speaker 03

  I think they there needs to be. You know, it's gotten better, especially at the southern border. I I really believe so, and I've been covering that region since for a while now, so you can kind of compare the differences. But what needs to be done is to tackle the root of the problem. The indoctrination and the financial pipelines. Because grabbing this, you know, picking up this big guy that runs a major faction and flaunting him around and parading him and saying, look what we did. We captured this guy.

• 2:09:56Speaker 03

  That works for five minutes. Before it's just as bad as again, or worse. After they got El Mayo, the Sinaloa cartel just fucking exploded. It made hell like life was a living hell is is a living hell for a lot of people in that region. And so I think tackling it at its root is what needs to happen, but that's a that's a huge operation. That goes beyond just going in and and doing this covert mission to grab someone. You have to somehow put a stop to propaganda at its deepest form. Monitor the socials.

• 2:10:34Speaker 03

  And target financial pipelines, like I said, remittance apps, the banks, the companies that are fronting for these groups. And that's a lot harder, I think. Do you think that's harder?

• 2:10:48Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, that will be tough. It could be done. But I, you know, what's interesting is I just, I just don't think that we have really pushed on them at all. And so it'll be if that time comes, I mean, to me, securing our border is not pushing back. That's just shit that we should have done a long time ago.

• 2:11:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a band-aid.

• 2:11:08Shawn Ryan?

  But if we actually go on the offensive, then, I mean, I think this could be wrapped up.

• 2:11:16Speaker 03

  What would the offensive look like for you?

• 2:11:18Shawn Ryan?

  Like I said, I think, I think what I would do is initially,

• 2:11:21Speaker 03

  Hit them against each other.

• 2:11:22Shawn Ryan?

  Hit them against each other to weaken them, um, to keep our people safe. You know, let's weaken them as much as we possibly can. In the meantime, you know, you could send in the intel reps, uh, the operatives to start tackling the financials. You know, you could outbid them on the gas, you know, there's a lot of things you could do. I'd start, then I'd do that. And then to, to wrap it up, I would send in the tier one units.

• 2:11:52Speaker 03

  And I think it is slowly happening.

• 2:11:53Shawn Ryan?

  To demoralize them also.

• 2:11:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:56Shawn Ryan?

  Lot of strikes.

• 2:11:57Speaker 03

  Because it is a psychological game too.

• 2:11:59Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 2:12:01Speaker 03

  There is, you know, aside from the CIA planes that are flying over the northern states, there's a vessel that stalked, a US vessel that stalked at the port of Veracruz. Um, the border is militarized. And then you have like ICE DEA working, allegedly working with Mexican forces to conduct operations without having to step foot in Mexico. But I, it seems to be like these are all precursors to something bigger that could potentially happen, especially if the US isn't seeing the result that it wants, which is what? Demoralized cartels, less fentanyl, less human smuggling, or for it to stop altogether, which I just don't see happening.

• 2:12:47Speaker 03

  But at the end of the day, you still have to deal with this big figurehead, which is the Mexican government, who has too much reason not to crack down on these guys.

• 2:12:57Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean.

• 2:13:02Shawn Ryan?

  It is what it is with them. It's our people that are being affected.

• 2:13:05Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 2:13:06Shawn Ryan?

  They don't want to help their people. That's on them. But, but what the hell do I know? I'm just a podcaster. So anyways. Well, I forgot to give you something here at the beginning.

• 2:13:17Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:13:17Shawn Ryan?

  So, do it at the end.

• 2:13:19Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.

• 2:13:22Shawn Ryan?

  Vigilance League gummy bears.

• 2:13:24Speaker 03

  So excited. People were asking me about this.

• 2:13:26Shawn Ryan?

  Not smuggled across the border. But, um, but before we wrap it up, what are you getting ready to get into? Anything exciting?

• 2:13:34Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm really excited. So I just did, um, I'm doing my podcast with Ironclad Borderline Dispatches. So I'm basically just going boots on the ground to show people exactly what's happening without having, you know, you know. I try to always do beyond headline reporting where I go and I speak to the people who are affected right there and paint the picture of what's going on. So on Borderline Dispatches, I, I went to the southern border and then I went up to the northern bor- border. I showed everyone just how open it is. Um, and soon we're going to be going in, uh, back to Mexico to just show some of the cartel ridden regions and how it varies from different areas and who's running what.

• 2:14:19Shawn Ryan?

  Does that mean you're having a crew go with you?

• 2:14:23Speaker 03

  I operate alone.

• 2:14:25Shawn Ryan?

  Good for you, man.

• 2:14:26Speaker 03

  I've been doing that. And actually, it's funny. A lot of people don't know that, but I've always done this alone. So it's, it's a lot of work, but I think it's worth it. You know, that's a, a trust thing too. I don't, I feel like if I go in alone, more people will talk to me.

• 2:14:38Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:38Speaker 03

  And share more information. It's disarming.

• 2:14:41Shawn Ryan?

  Well, where can we find you?

• 2:14:43Speaker 03

  You can find me on the, the podcast, Apple, Spotify, Borderline Dispatches. I also have my Substack. My full name, Katerina Schultz. Everything is my full name with the most complicated spelling. S Z U L C.

• 2:14:58Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Katerina.

• 2:14:58Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 2:14:59Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. I really appreciate it.

• 2:15:01Speaker 03

  I appreciate you having me here.

• 2:15:03Shawn Ryan?

  Hope to see you again.

• 2:15:04Speaker 03

  Likewise.