4 - Clon the Cool Cat | Overpriced JPEGs

🎙️ GET THE FULL EPISODE APPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/overpriced-jpegs/id1591954323 SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/5G2HSDneVg8mZUQ3zUIoLX?si=6d57ee1f89184974 Clon is the founder and artist behind the NFT sensation Cool Cats. Striking a delicate balance between cool and cute, the massive success of this project is a testament to the importance of a good founding team and strong values. We discuss how Clon fell into the NFT space and found a perfect product-market fit with his work and style. We cover the power of community, dive into tokenomics, and explore how breaking into NFTs actually works. Although the market is (over)saturated with PFP projects, there are reasons why the cream rises to the top. Tune in and find out. ------ 🚀 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER: https://jpegs.banklesshq.com/ ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 👀 ZERION | YOUR NFT PORTFOLIO https://bankless.cc/Zerion 💸 ONJUNO | YOUR CRYPTO PAYCHECK https://bankless.cc/OnJuno 🌊 INDEX COOP | METAVERSE INDEX https://bankless.cc/MVI 🦄 BLOCK::BLOCK | METAVERSE IP https://bankless.cc/blockblock ------ Topics Covered: 0:00 Intro 3:00 Clon the Cool Cat 10:10 Designing & Developing 18:02 Launching with Legitimacy 26:30 The State of Cool Cats 35:18 Community Management 42:38 Ownership Rights 49:00 Milk & Gold 55:51 Advice For Artists 1:02:48 Other Projects 1:07:36 Besides PFPs 1:10:45 A Day in the Life 1:14:17 Closing & Disclaimers ------ Resources: Clon on Twitter: https://twitter.com/cloncast?s=20 Cool Cats: https://www.coolcatsnft.com/ Toy Boogers: https://twitter.com/ToyBoogers?s=20 Clon on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/cloncast ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/p/bankless-disclosures

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Hello, all you cool cats and kittens. This is Overpriced Jpegs. I'm Carly Riley, and on today's episode of the show, we have Clon, the artist behind Cool Cats. And I did, in fact, ask Clon whether or not Carol Baskin, the famous real-life character from Tiger King, who is famous for saying, "Hello, all you cool cats and kittens," if she was in any way the inspiration for the name Cool Cats. And he answered me, so listen to this episode to find out. Klon and I talked about a whole bunch of stuff. It was so great to get to know essentially the artist behind this massive phenomenon. We talked about how Klon got started in NFTs,

• 0:50Speaker 00

  how he came up with the idea for Cool Cats, how he prepared for launching this. If you are an artist, if you are somebody who's been interested in launching your own NFT collection, I think you absolutely should listen to this episode and learn from how Klon did it. We also talked about what NFTs he's been buying these days, and he shares what a day in his life looks like now that he's a very successful NFT artist. So, that's all coming up, but first, a word from our sponsors.

• 1:18David Hoffman?

  Everyone is talking about the Metaverse these days, and we're all still trying to figure out what it actually is, because everyone is looking for how to get exposure to it. That is why a Metaverse Index Fund is so important, because in such a young market, an index can give you broad exposure to all the various players who are building out all these digital worlds that will ultimately become the Metaverse. And that's why you should check out the Metaverse Index from the Index Co-op. The Metaverse Index gives you simple, easy, and safe one-click exposure to the emerging open Metaverse trend. The MVI Index contains some of the biggest Metaverse projects out there, including Axie Infinity, Decentraland, Illuvium, and more. So join thousands of holders who have already trusted nearly $50 million to the MVI Index. And if you buy $500 of MVI on the Dharma app,

• 2:03David Hoffman?

  you can receive $50 worth of ETH on the Polygon network. There's a link in the show notes for you to click so you can get started on your journey into this. The Metaverse. Onjuno is your new crypto-enabled financial services company. Onjuno lets you get your direct deposit paycheck paid to you in crypto. Set up your direct deposit with Onjuno and receive part of your paycheck in your preferred crypto asset, reducing the time that you're holding on to your inflating dollars. The best thing is Onjuno sends your crypto directly to your own wallet, whether it's your Ledger, your MetaMask, or however you hold your crypto. Onjuno can also be a checking account for your crypto, where you manage both your cash and your crypto from one simple account. It's free, and opening up an account with Onjuno comes with a metal debit card that gives you 5% cash back at select businesses, including Uber, Starbucks, Walmart, Target, and other webtooth companies.

• 2:48David Hoffman?

  Use code BANKLESS when you create your Onjuno account, and our friends at Juno will airdrop you $50 in ETH when you set up your first crypto paycheck. Sign up at onjuno.com/crypto to get started. That's O-N-J-U-N-O dot com slash crypto.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  All right. Hello, Klon. Welcome to Overpriced JPGs. I'm so incredibly excited to have you on this show, grateful to have you on this show. When we launched this show, Cool Cats was one of the very first projects I wanted to talk to, because I think you're such an interesting story. You've blown up so much, and I really wanted to hear, direct from the horse's mouth, how this journey has been, how this all happened. And I know there's a lot of people out there who want to understand the same. So, thank you so, so much for being here.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you for the introduction. And it's been a crazy ride, a crazy journey to get Cool Cats to where it is. And it sort of all started with me just doodling on a piece of paper and just keeping at it until NFTs came about, and that was where I went with the character.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  So, let's talk about that, I guess we should say, and maybe this is obvious, but you were the artist behind Cool Cats. So, you've drawn all the Cool Cats. So, start us, like, when did you start making art? Tell us your background, and what was that journey from you're an artist and then you discover NFTs? How did that, how did that go?

• 4:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz I mean, for a while, I had been looking at NFTs from the outskirts and just like many people, didn't understand it.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  When was this? When did you first hear the term NFT, but you're like, what is this?

• 4:23Speaker 02

  Probably 2020, but like, I didn't research anything. I was just like, I heard the word NFT, figured out that it stood for non-fungible token, and I was like, this has something to do with crypto. I only kinda know crypto. I'm gonna stay out.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. And like, that's a lot of- A bunch of libertarians doing weird things, trying to take down the banking system. No, thank you.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, what's going on here? What's the internet on? And so, so that's how it was, and I had always been drawing, like I said, and, but one day, uh, my friend Evan, AKA Elu, another co-founder of Coolcats, he actually brought me on to a different project, um, as a motion designer, cuz that's what I did professionally before this. And I was just creating digital content for him, that's all it was. I got immersed into the NFT space through doing this, and that's kinda how I learned about it. And so I was learning about like Bored Apes, cuz they had just released.

• 5:25Speaker 00

  So now we're in 2021. Now, like, you've been doing this for, we're in 2021, and you're starting to be like, oh, okay, and things are starting to pop. Okay.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  And to clarify, all of my crypto experience is in 2021. Um, I officially started my crypto journey in February, when I like, started investing in ETH more, and a little bit of Bitcoin. Um, so I'd, I'd kinda been saving that up as well, just as like a second savings account for myself. Cuz I started to understand it. I was like, oh, this is a cool, global decentralized, uh, currency, and that you can do so much with that. So-

• 6:04Speaker 00

  What was your aha moment for NFTs? Was it, was it Bored Apes, or do you, did you have a moment where you were suddenly like, oh, oh my god, like, I get what this is now?

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Honestly, it didn't, because I, and I understand Bored Apes now, obviously. But at the time, I was like, I don't get it. I don't understand why people would pay this much for this image. Because I was also coming from it from an art standpoint. It's like, I'd pay this for like, digital, like, art, like a one-off, like a complete one-off kind of thing. But I was only looking at it from the art standpoint. And not that this is literally a token. Like, at the end of the day, a lot of people will strip away the visual and only see it as a token. And because you can make money off of it.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  And it's, I guess when it really clicked with me was like, oh, you're investing in the project, the like, kind of IP of it. It's no different than buying a stock in a company. Like, that's what you're doing. You're buying it so that you believe in it.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  Don't tell the SEC that you're a cool cat about to get slapped with.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:14Speaker 00

  Some sort of security, no, I'm just kidding.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Right, right, right, right. But like, that's how you could kind of like, understand it if you had any idea of the, of the market. And so, it really clicked with me, I guess with Bored Apes as well, but a few other projects. None really off the top of my head. Because it was funny, the NFT space was so different back then. People were doing bonding curves and like, it wasn't all about PFP projects and things like that. So, back to when I was working with Evan on that project. He, we were doing that, whatever.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  And then, long story short, our, our dev fell through and like, completely rugged us and was like, "I'm not helping you anymore." And so, we're back at square one and we're just like, "Uh, what do we do? We need to go find developers." And through that whole process, like even before that developer said, I'm out. I invested in another NFT called Fatticorns. And I was talking to the devs there. We were getting close. Turns out that's Tom and Link, the other two co-founders of Cool Cats. So that's all how we all met was through their project. And they didn't want to help us with the project that Evan and I were working on because they didn't want. Tom literally said, I don't want to destroy your project.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  What was that project?

• 8:43Speaker 02

  I don't want to say it because it hasn't been publicly said yet. But and that's the only reason, but. So he didn't want to help with that. And then Evan and I are like really depressed the next two days. Like, what are we going to do with this project? We just spent like weeks and weeks and weeks developing or like designing and stuff.

• 9:03Speaker 00

  And now we don't have a dev and.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, now we don't have a dev. I was going to point at the poster in the background, but I'm laying on my, there used to be a couch here. I was laying on the couch and looking up and I see this poster, this old, the Cat Tunis poster, the work I did before Cool Cats. And it was Blue Cat in a bunch of different outfits and just like stacked on top of each other. And there's probably like 50 of them. And I was like, wait a minute. I've had this character just sitting here right in front of me this whole time. And look at Bored Apes, they have this like generative costume thing going on. What if we just did our, our take on that? And it boom hit me and then I just went wild, like just sketching and sketching and sketching. And I was like, let's call them Cool Cats.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  And this was just between Evan and I. And then we go to Tom and Link and we're like, hey, we don't want you to help with our old project. We have this new project and we think it's going to be a hit. And then from there, we all like as a team, equal parts like started Cool Cats together.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  Wow. So let me, let me ask a silly question. You, you said the name Cool Cats kind of hit you or you and Evan decided together on that. Did that have anything to do with Tiger King?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  No.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  Like, hey, you cool cats and kittens. Like, as I was researching for this, I was like. I wonder if there was anything there because Tiger King was such a, you know, 2020, this kind of general era.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I actually still have never seen it.

• 10:35Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, so definitely no.

• 10:37Speaker 00

  Definitely not.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  But it kind of hit me because, like I said, the Cat Toonist was my Instagram account before Cool Cats, where I had always been drawing the character, yada, yada, yada. The point of me telling you this is I always hated the word, the name, the Cat Toonist the further I got along because so many people either called it the Cartoonist, the Cartoonist, they just didn't even see the play on words, or they just misspell it. And that's nobody's fault. It's just a confusing word. And so I was thinking of the names for Cool Cats and I was like, well, cool is a word anyone in the world probably knows and cat. And it's just, and it's already a phrase people use, like, oh, you're a cool cat.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  So it just felt like a no brainer to me. And again, my analogy, or not analogy, my example is like if you're at a party and the music's blasting and you're trying to tell someone your name of the project, it's like, Cool Cats, you're going to hear that.

• 11:39Speaker 00

  Oh, it's easy, it's easy at a loud party.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And just any situation like that, you know, you can tell someone it and they could spell it. And that's important to me. It's not confusing at all.

• 11:51Speaker 00

  That's fascinating. So I want to actually talk about what your, your strategic thinking was in advance of launching, but let's again orient ourselves time wise here. So you and Evan approached Tom and Link and you're like, hey, okay, we've got this other project idea. They're now like, oh, these are some cool cats. We're in. Where are we in 2021 and how, how long was it between that conversation and then launching?

• 12:15Speaker 02

  So that conversation probably happened around May 19th.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  And we-

• 12:21Speaker 00

  Give or take, not to be too specific.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  Give or take, yeah, well, I have it written in a notebook, like, May 19th, and that's kind of what I've been going off of.

• 12:29Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  And so we started there, and a lot of, like, the first week was just brainstorming, and like, our, what action we're gonna take. And at this time, I'm also like, drawing the character, but in like, a, like, template way. And then we have something there, and we're kind of going with it. And Tom and Link are just such geniuses in the developer space. Like, we're thinking like, oh, how do we add rarities into this? Like, what crazy things that we can do? And so from like, that May range to July 1st, our launch date, like, was just pure development. And I don't know how it was for them, but for me, I, I was a freelance graphic designer,

• 13:13Speaker 02

  and for a while, my, my clients kind of just went under the radar. So it was this perfect time where I had all the time in the world. And I just went all in on making these assets. And, you know, I would draw a bunch of little hats, whatever, shirts, faces, throw them over to Tom, he would put them in a bunch of code, and it would just like, you could just spit out 100 in like, a second. And we'd like, go through all of them, and that's how we'd look at them.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  Did you think about this as a brand at that point? Where you're like, we're about to go build a brand, and an intellectual property brand? Was that in your mind at that point, leading up to launch?

• 13:57Speaker 02

  I guess, yes, because with Blue Cat the character, it's always been a brand for me. I've always been trying to make that a brand. Just this one little blue character, and then his friends. So, but then with Cool Cats, yeah, because we were taking that step into like, I felt like we were, it was a rebirth of the character.

• 14:20Speaker 00

  I'm curious if you did any like branding or traditional, what people would think of as like traditional branding exercises and what I'm asking here is I interviewed Betty NFT from Deadfellas. And sort of off the cuff, based on the conversation, I asked her which Harry Potter house Deadfellas would be in? And she said Slytherin. And then it actually struck me that's kind of an interesting, almost like branding exercise of like, this is the intention behind the character, like what house are you in? So A, what house would Cool Cats be in?

• 14:49Speaker 02

  I think it would be Gryffindor.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Or Hufflepuff, maybe?

• 14:52Speaker 02

  Or Hufflepuff. Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  Both could fit. But did you think, probably not about which Harry Potter house it would be in, but did you think about, okay, what's the, what's the culture we want to create here? What does our brand stand for? Like some of that traditional brand thinking work in that time?

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Um, there's actually a, this doesn't quite answer your question, but, and this won't show up in the livestream, but I had this sticky note.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  Anyways, it was a scale.

• 15:21Speaker 00

  It's scales of justice, kind of, if you're, if you're listening on the podcast.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, scales of justice. Thank you. Let's visualize this. Scales of justice. And on one side it says cool, and on the other side it says cute. And it's this balancing act where I need it to be both cute and cool, but it needs to be a little bit cooler than cute. And that was my, like, I know it's so simple, but that's what was running through my brain.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  I think that's important. And because I know a lot of people who listen to this show are interested in maybe doing their own project one day, like having people realize the kind of thoughtfulness that gets put into these projects that I think end up being successful is so valuable. What, are there any couple of things you could point to that were decisions you made to make it cool? Like what were the, what were the cool decisions to like help boost the cool if you?

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Well, it's certain traits. It was like certain traits I'd come out with.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  You know, your like cowboy trait, that was like cooler, or something like that versus like a flower in the hair, which was cute, you know, because we needed to have both. And it wasn't like I was trying to make. Traits that were for females, I was trying to make traits that were either feminine or masculine and kind of everything in between. So that it didn't feel like Blue Cat was being gendered in any way. Sometimes you'll hear me call Blue Cat him and that's just how it's been. But like, I love when someone finds their forever cat and they call like, oh, she's so cute. I'm like, that's what I want. I want you to say whatever you want, kind of thing. And that's kind of the, going back to your other question of like, the what audience

• 17:00Speaker 02

  or whatever we were looking for. It was actually Tom who really spearheaded the idea of like, let's go all in on being family friendly. Like, as founders, let's not like cuss anywhere, you know, none of our cats are smoking, drinking beer, none of that. And that's because it's already so playful and friendly that we just doubled downed on it. And what we found was, there's a lot of people with kids who now can introduce NFTs to their kids through Cool Cats because it's a safe bet. They're not worried about it being, it's like G rated, you know? And so they can show their kids and it'd be fine. And that's helped out a lot.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  And a lot of people have told us their stories of like, it's fun that I can do NFTs with my kids and they can kind of understand it. And that was just big. And so we've really gone like extra fur- like further with that after hearing all these stories. Yeah, so that's kind of the audience.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  And so you had that idea in mind even before you launched this family friendly idea and then, and then you had the characters-

• 18:08Speaker 02

  And then it really was apparent, like after the fact and that's all we-

• 18:11Speaker 00

  Oh, no pun intended, apparent.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  So you launched in July and was it successful right out the gate? Like in the, in the first day, you sold out quickly? Was it, did it have all the makings of that kind of-

• 18:26Speaker 02

  We had a weird launch day, in, in the best way possible. It was a weird launch date where we came out of the gates with a point zero six Ethereum price, which at the time was like a hundred and fifty dollars. And- Uh, you just got one cat for that. You minted it and you instantly saw it. And we initially had a lot of sales, but it only got to like three hundred out of the ten thousand. And you could see that it kind of just plateaued. And it were just like some sales coming in. And then there was a, a user that came into our Discord and was like, hey, I'm ready to buy a bunch of these if you're to lower your price.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  Uh, and then everyone in our Discord was like, oh, my gosh, yes, well, we'll buy even more if you do this. And so we switched it from point zero six to point zero two, which was like fifty bucks. And um, we sold out in the next six hours. It's like, it just kind of took to Twitter and then everyone's like, wait a minute, this, these people aren't like cash grabbing. They just like want their thing out there. And so it sold out and because of that, we had a lot of people who didn't have a lot of money and only bought one and they're still holding that one. Um, or, or they flipped it a bunch of times and then now have made more.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  Uh, got more money and more cats or whatever, but it was just cool because we let in this bigger audience. And because of that, this community got formed because it was just a lot of different people, not just people who had a lot of money in their wallets. And so it created this really positive space.

• 20:07Speaker 00

  So that decision, it sounds like, are you crediting that decision in part with then kind of launching the community in a certain way and setting the tone for what the community was?

• 20:16Speaker 02

  In a way, yeah, like the art definitely, definitely lends itself to that and us as a team. Cause another thing you didn't see often in the space was the devs, like the founders of the team were talking to you. Cause usually there's this veil of like, we're, we're the founders of the team, you're buying our thing. We're gonna like only feed you information when it's important. Versus us where we're sitting in Discord every day, like you have a question, we'll answer it. Like, we're here for you. Um, no, no question is dumb kind of thing. Cause this is a confusing space and it's really easy to get scammed or. Do one thing wrong and you lose a thousand dollars or something. So.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  So that decision was huge. I'm curious though, because there are so many people who want what you have, right? And want to launch a project and have it sell out in 24 hours, even if, you know, there's a plateau period.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:10Speaker 00

  What else do you think you guys had done right? In terms of building a community or where you got lucky or what were the factors that you think? Allowed for you to sell anything on that first day when you launched the project?

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Right. So funny enough, our marketing wasn't the best. People didn't really know about us. So it's not just marketing that's can like make or break you, but. I think we got lucky with dropping our price. It just that bit of news like hit the fan. And it was just a bunch of people who never knew about the project because our marketing was like, whatever. And so I think what audiences really attach themselves to is like.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  In our case, art that was friendly. So like. And it really went a long way. It's hard to explain, but then like. Just a community of people who are literally willing to help each other at any cost, like we're in it together kind of thing. And because of that, now months later, there's a lot of people who were in our community that have now started their own project. Because they met through Cool Cats. And that sort of thing is just so crazy to me that communities like this can come, uh, can form. And then like a new project comes out and we all show interest in it and like. The cats as a whole like move to this other project and like invest in it and whatever and start more communities.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  And it's this like web that's growing. It's really cool. We're all, like I said, willing to help each other.

• 22:41Speaker 00

  Do you feel like at the time? You were filling a gap in the market where there wasn't maybe this because I think of now, I think of a lot of, there are a lot of, call it cute projects, but this cute, cool balance. Do you feel like at the moment you guys launched, you were filling a gap and that was part of what you said? People resonating with the art? And that's something, you know, how can you do something different or innovative? Or see what's not in the market at the moment? And try and deliver that?

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, and we didn't really know that's what we were doing at the time. But it hit us after the fact and people have told us was like, there was nothing cute on the market. Just straight up, nothing cute existed on the blockchain. It was all for like, I hate to say this or generalize, it's all for like the bros in the space that were like, they want laser eyes, they want it smoking a cigarette, they want it like hardcore looking. And that's how the majority of them were. Super Yetis had come out and that was kind of leaning towards like a little bit cuter. But apparently their metadata, whatever, didn't work so well. I was a little late to that, so I don't know too much.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  But anyways, like, we came out with this like cartoon style, like cute, very easy to understand. And even through the cartoonist, one thing I've always said is, people gravitate towards cartoons more because it's just like more welcoming. I don't know.

• 24:06Speaker 00

  And cats, I interviewed Max Flavell. I interviewed Max Flavell, that episode is airing this week, actually. He came up with the idea for CryptoKitties. And he, back in the day, and he was like, I had been in like consumer goods products for years. And I had learned that cats were opt out, not opt in. Like if you were making a consumer product, you had to justify why you weren't making it a cat, not why you were making it a cat. So you hit that well.

• 24:33Speaker 02

  Well, and there was also like other cat projects out there. And so we were worried that we were just going to be one of the other ones. So that was also.

• 24:41Speaker 00

  But they weren't cute enough.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  They weren't cute enough. They weren't cute enough, exactly.

• 24:46Speaker 00

  You said, you said your marketing wasn't great leading up to launch. Why was that? What do you think you guys could have done better?

• 24:55Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  I felt like we were creating like decent content. I think, oh, actually, I do know where we went wrong. And it's because none of us were thinking about it. We needed to get onto like Twitter Spaces or Clubhouse and just be talking. Because we were kind of under the radar, just posting like promo videos and stuff, which I thought were good. And thought that that would be enough, or just like interacting with people on Twitter. But it didn't get enough reach. And I think I realized that post-launch, when we did get on Twitter Spaces, and we just kept getting more people, more eyes on us.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  Because you have someone like, like the first one we went on was with Faroak on Clubhouse. And then now, there's this whole other audience of people who never knew about you. And now they know about you.

• 25:48Speaker 00

  Did you think, do you think going on Faroak would have been possible for you all before you launched though? Or was that something that became possible because you sold out a project?

• 25:55Speaker 02

  I think it was, became possible for us. And that's the difficulties, is like, how do you squeeze yourself in to get noticed? Or does the artwork itself speak for, you know? I don't know. It's tough. It's definitely, this has been in the art world for years and years and years. It's unfortunately, sometimes, who do you know? And that's how marketing can, can be better, is who do you know?

• 26:20Speaker 00

  I think we'll, we'll definitely circle back to that, because I want to do a whole section here where I hear your thoughts for artists who are trying to get into this space, and artists in general, so putting a pin in that. You said something interesting, which is, you feel like part of your success was because the team was so accessible and was in the Discord and was chatting with folks. And as I've been thinking about this space in general, one thing that maybe makes me nervous is that projects are really dependent on their founding team. You made the comparison to the stock market, but like, if Coca-Cola... The CEO of Coca-Cola says he's gonna step down, or she's gonna step down. Like, maybe that impacts the stock price, you know, people like her, whatever, but nobody's freaking out. Yeah, there'll be another CEO.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  Coke is not going nowhere.

• 27:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. Like, this is not a death blow. You know, when founders of a project leave, it's called a rug pull. And partly, if that's a joke, you know, you can have a founder who leaves in an honorable way versus a non-honorable way.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  But I'm curious if you think that we are in a stage right now with NFTs and how you think about Cool Cats, where they're still very dependent on the founders themselves. You know, and if that makes you nervous, and if you think that'll change in 10 years if it's an established enough brand, or how you think about that central importance of the founding team.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I think for us, you know, we're all very, very, very passionate about, we all have achieved what we think is like a dream job, and so we're in it for the long run. But that's obviously not every project. And like, with Cool Cats, the reason we want to be, the reason we hold a town hall meeting every Friday, even though sometimes I'd love to have my Friday. But it's because we want to talk to you and make sure you know, like, we're still working on this. Our, like, we're not going anywhere. We're not just gonna leave one day. Because we have kind of seen that sometimes, where the project doesn't do well, and then it just fizzles out.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  And it sucks because a lot of people invested money in that, and now they feel cheated. So for Cool Cats, we just try to make sure that you know, like, no matter where this graph is going, like, we're in it for the long run, and we're gonna keep going. So if you believe in the project, like, thank you.

• 28:36Speaker 00

  Let me suggest a way I see this playing out in the space, kind of in general, but I use Cool Cats as an example. And tell me if it resonates for you, if you're like, yeah, that feels right to me. I think what, we're still in this very nascent stage in NFTs, so the founding teams are really, really important. I, I used to be sort of a student of Warren Buffett. I worked at a hedge fund that like, did everything based on like, how Warren Buffett saw investing. And Warren Buffett has a very funny quote that is, "A ham sandwich could run Coca-Cola." And his point there, and he actually has another line that's like, invest in companies that even an idiot could run, because eventually an idiot will, right? Like, his whole thing is you want brands that have such a strong moat. That it almost doesn't matter who's in charge because the moat of the brand is really strong.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  So it seems like where we are in the NFT stage right now is that all these brands are so nascent that they're still very dependent on the founding teams and the kind of myth and cult following of the founding teams in the best sense of the word. But that the goal for a project like yours is to build an intellectual property that becomes so recognizable that eventually it can be somewhat separated, at least in the mainstream, from the founding team, right? And so in 30 years, you wanted to retire, you know, whatever.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  You have a brand that can now stand on its own. Would that be how you would describe maybe your goal?

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, 100%. Yeah, that's exactly how I see our goal. Like, our goal is to be a Hello Kitty of the blockchain. Is to be so big that you're gonna see Blue Cat's face slapped on everything. And that's why, like, the IP is so important to us is because it's not just a cat, it's a character of a cat. And so it's a character that has personality and a brand, literally a brand formed around it. And we want that everywhere. And so that's kind of the long, and we're gonna do that through different ways, whether

• 30:37Speaker 02

  it be like a video game, TV show, books, like, you know, we're just trying to get into the real world too. Because I don't think you should just stop at NFTs. I think there's a bigger picture here. And we have to get into the people who don't want to get into NFTs, but now you have this launchpad because of NFTs to get into other people's eyes. And so whether that be through, like I said, merch, or TV shows, video games, whatever.

• 31:09Speaker 00

  Are you having conversations, I'm assuming, with? I don't know, studios or like these I R L, you know,

• 31:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:17Speaker 00

  people and brands about partnerships and collaborations and building shows and not to be too specific about anything.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Right, right, and I'll stay vague about it. But for sure, like, we're having these conversations where like Cool Cats is in it for the long run. We're thinking not just right now in N F T space of where the blockchain and web three is gonna end up and how are we gonna still be there, kind of thing. And so by talking to different companies and whatever, you're just solidifying yourself as a brand because like when Time Magazine came in, that was a massive deal because it's like, whoa, this company that's been around for a hundred years like recognized our brand and said, we want to work with you. And, you know, obviously that was great for Cool Cats, but that was great for the space

• 32:05Speaker 02

  in general because it's also validating N F Ts and that this, we have something here.

• 32:11Speaker 00

  And Time and Keith Grossman approached you for that deal, is that right?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 32:16Speaker 00

  And it's funny because I've read about this and it seems like the family friendly element was actually what Keith was was drawn to, is that right? Is that like that ended up being why they approached you and how that came together?

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And that, like I said, that's why we doubled down on being family friendly is because we're gonna see bigger brands coming into the space and are they gonna want to take a risky bet with something that, you know, could rub people the wrong way or the safe bet that's family friendly and you can show your children? And it goes back to that scale of cute and cool, like, we want to make sure it's, you know, cute enough for kids but cool enough for adults and that is the scale.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  What is your pitch to these, I'll call it brands or studios or whatever, you know, you're on the phone like, hey, work with Cool Cats. What is that pitch like?

• 33:07Speaker 02

  Oh, we tell them about the IP. We tell them about our community because I think that's extremely important. We have people who are ready to like stand with us. And I think that's a hard thing for any company to establish.

• 33:21Speaker 00

  And do they get it? Do you find people are getting it immediately? When you or is there like an explaining the blockchain process? Or are people so hungry to like work with NFTs because it's so hot that they're like, yes, teach us your ways, like we'll do anything.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  It's a little bit of both. Some people come into it knowing about the blockchain. Other people are coming to us because they're trying to get into the blockchain. And they're are going through us is kind of their route to getting like on boarded, I guess. So.

• 33:50Speaker 00

  And you all recently hired a biz dev person. Is it Pete?

• 33:54Speaker 02

  Yes, we got Pete. Yeah, we're and we're hiring more people in general.

• 33:58Speaker 00

  I was gonna ask, how big is your team now? And.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  Gosh, it's gotten actually kind of big.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  I think we have around like 15 people now and it started with four.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  I could be exaggerating that number because there's some people who are like on the team, but are more like use case. But Pete is great. He has helped. They're all because we were wearing so many hats at first when it launched. And it was just the four founders. That's like, I can't answer emails anymore if I want to draw. Like, I can't do X, Y, Z. And so we've been hiring people on. And like I said, our marketing kind of wasn't the greatest at the beginning. So we hired one of the community members that had been in the community almost since launch. And she always was trying to like promote the brand, do anything she could to help. And then eventually we're like, well, you're crushing it on Twitter.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Do you want to just be paid for it kind of thing? And it was like, yes. And so we're constantly trying to bring in people from our community because they obviously like the brand and they understand the space. And it's helped out immensely. It's like, it's funny, you grow your team and you slow down a little bit. But in the long run, you speed up exponentially. And so that's kind of where we're at.

• 35:19Speaker 00

  You all made the decision, I think, early on or from launch point, that 20% of all ETH that came in would go into a treasury that would be given back to the community.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:29Speaker 00

  I have that number right. Is that correct?

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:31Speaker 00

  The 20%?

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Although it was 20% of the initial sales.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  Oh, 20% of the initial sales, not an ongoing basis. Okay. I'm curious-

• 35:39Speaker 02

  But we kind of do still kind of feed into that, just not like an exact 20%. It's kind of like a, oh, we did this charity piece, or a piece that's directly going into the community wallet and things like that. And that's how we kind of compensate and keep filling it up.

• 35:56Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. Well, I'm curious how you think about, because your community is really strong and that's obviously a huge part, if not the core, to your success. How do you think about these day-to-day community management activities with this longer-term brand building and balancing that? And do you think of those as two separate work streams? Are you all working on both all the time? How do you approach that?

• 36:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, the brand is like, kind of something I guess I had already established before Cool Cats and it's now like making sure that that gets executed. Do you mind repeating the question? I think I missed out on one aspect of it and I was just about to ramble.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  I appreciate your honesty. You know, I'm asking how you think about the balance between long-term brand building? So some of this biz dev stuff we're talking about and partnerships and all of that with day-to-day keeping the community engaged, giving 20% back to them with giveaways, et cetera. Like, are these two separate work streams? Do you work on both? You know, do you have separate, you know, plans when you look ahead? How does that work?

• 37:01Speaker 02

  Oh, we try to do both at the same time, but that was another reason we brought on like more moderators into the space is because unfortunately, I can't spend as much time in Discord if I want to keep the brand going, you know? It's like this trade-off of like, do I want to talk to everyone or do I want to help out the project that they're invested in?

• 37:24Speaker 02

  And so it's definitely a balancing act of we as founders are having our talks of like the bigger picture stuff. And then we're kind of relaying that down to people and working with them still like we're still doing those things, but they're helping us like make sure we execute them. And getting to the the finish line that we want to of the brand and where we all kind of see the bigger picture of it. And it's crazy because some things could take like, like there's things we have in the in the works that you're not going to see until later next year kind of thing. And those are like the bigger things, but then you have to come up with the smaller things of like, oh, it's Christmas time.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  How are we going to do like Christmas themed things and keeping your community engaged? Because you can't just within this space, like you have to keep fueling your community or else you're going to get forgotten about. So yeah, it's a weird balancing act and it's really, it's really difficult.

• 38:24Speaker 00

  You all grew from a mint price, I guess, really of point oh, two, you dropped it to at one point hitting a 10 ETH floor. I'm not somebody who advocates like tracking a floor like crazy. I think you should invest for the long term, but you know, still heck, that's that's crazy growth. Why is a cool cat worth 10 ETH?

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Why is a cool cat worth 10 ETH? So to break it down for especially for anyone listening that has no idea how these JPEGs cost so much. The best way I put it is it's a collector's item and it's a token as well. So it's like, yes, it's a visual, it's a picture of a cat, but it's also a currency. It's no different than Ethereum or Bitcoin, you know, but now it's visual. But it's all tied around the company and so, you know, how well the company does, etc. So because there's only 10,000 of them, the more people who find their forever cats

• 39:28Speaker 02

  or are just, as we say, diamond handing it and holding them on so tightly and never giving them up, that the scarcity goes down. And so it's like, well, do you?

• 39:38Speaker 00

  Scarcity goes up.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry. Scarcity goes up. Thank you. Thank you. I'm always.

• 39:44Speaker 00

  Double negatives.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, double negatives. I always get those wrong. And so because of that, because of the scarcity going up. We it it gets harder to get into the project because people aren't willing to sell them. And so some people, you know, when it gets up to the 10 ETH floor, everyone's like, well, I'm not selling it for under that. So if you want to get in on this project to get into the community events, to feel like you have ownership in it, or just to simply have a cat that you really relate to, that's how the price goes up. And it just fluctuates with where people think the price should be, or if they're just trying to get, as we call it, liquid, just get your money back and things like that.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  And then the crazier thing here, which I didn't really grasp in the NFT space, was people are looking for digital identities. A lot of people have gotten a cool cat and made an entire brand around that. And the best example of that is Andrew Wang, who is a journalist, and he bought the upside down cat. And that was like a big story at the time because he spent five ETH on it.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  But he had like a whole story about it and definitely researched that. It's a lot of, it's an interesting story. And through it, Andrew found a community, he found friends, and he found a voice. And that all was around this cat that he bought. And so if you ever see an upside down cat, that's Andrew. Like ever, just even referenced anywhere, it's Andrew's cat or something that's upside down. And so like, people make brands off of it too. And that's.

• 41:25Speaker 00

  You've built an umbrella brand that people have clearly responded to and clearly resonate with. And when you're able to kind of command a community like that, you know, that's the thousand true fan theory, right? Or like, you know, when you're able to command a number of people who feel really bought into. Sort of the feel and the brand that you've created, that's a very powerful thing and NFTs are doing it in a unique way.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  And you guys have done it incredibly well.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  It's weird when prices get up that high. Like even I have to like take a double take and just be like, what? And I remember I was leaving my, this is a separate story, tangent, but I was leaving my job after lunch. And I was trying to tell my employer or my, my client at the time, I'm like, hey, I, I'm leaving to go do this full time. Uh, and he's like, wait, explain this to me. I'm like, all right, here, this thing sold out. Like, these are a bunch of cats I drew, yada, yada, yada. And I laughed with him, but he's like, this? You just sold a bunch of cats like this? And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, I don't get it. And I'm like, it's okay. Not a lot of people do, but it's a, it's a currency and that's how you have to see it.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  It's weird.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  I want to talk about ownership rights and derivative projects because I think this is a battle that the space is going to face in general for a while. There was recently kind of resurfaced the CryptoPunks, CryptoFunks thing. And I think Cool Cats recently had to deal with this. You all had a Medium post that talked about your, your, where you guys stood on copyrights. And, and if I may summarize this briefly, it was like, if you own a cat, you can do anything you want with that cat.

• 43:03Speaker 02

  With that cat, yeah.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  But you can't come at our project and like rip off all of the cats and rip off its project in the entirety. I think where there was recently some confusion was in that original blog post, it sort of sounded like, but hey, we're not going to go out. It's not worth our time to go after ripoff projects. And then recently, I think, uh, Lil Baby Cool Cats, you all did pursue in some capacity. Can you just talk about how that's evolved, why you took action, if this is the right way to phrase it, against Lil Baby Cool Cats?

• 43:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  How, how do you think about that in general?

• 43:43Speaker 02

  Well, and this is obviously a conversation that will always keep coming up. Um, it's like, where do you draw the line with your IP? And like I've been saying with Cool Cats, our IP is just so important to us, mainly the silhouette of Blue Cat and the traits like. And so with Lil Baby Cool Cats, where.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  We poorly, we had a Medium article that we realized after the fact, oh, we did mess up. We could have made this very, we could have made this clear as what we see as a derivative. And where we crossed that line was that they took our exact like trait assets and just scaled them down. And to me, that's just a copy and paste project. That's not a derivative. To me, a derivative is reimagining, like redrawing everything and taking a fresh take on it. And there's another project that came out on Cool Cats of like the same time. And they were a great example of what a derivative project should look like.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  And they like took the idea of Cool Cats and then just made all sorts of like crazy traits outside of it that they hand drew and redid. And like, in my eyes, that's a derivative project. The problem is because it's decentralized and it's Web 3, we're fighting this battle of what's allowed. And it's tough because there's very much two sides of it. There's a lot of people against what Cool Cats decided and there's a lot of people who are for it. And we're just trying to figure that out. And in my eyes, like, I think Cool Cats is just a little different and we can get into this more, but like,

• 45:33Speaker 02

  we were really the first 10K project to come out with an artist as, as like one of the founders. And, and it's like my life's work kind of thing. So I hold some of those things more dearly to me than something that I would have just paid an artist to do and that was our project. It's like, I've been building this brand for a while. I put it on the blockchain. And so when I see something that's an exact copy, that's where I cross the line.

• 46:02Speaker 00

  And what did you do? Did you, is it right, so you took action against Lil Baby Cool Cats? Or I know the DMCA, like the, did you try and delist them or what was sort of your, your response there?

• 46:14Speaker 02

  We just reached out to OpenSea and told them that they had been using our assets. And it, yeah, mainly that. They were just using our assets and stuff. And so they got taken down. And so then, you know, a lot of stuff had happened on Twitter and we ended up talking to them. And kind of what got resolved is that we're going to leave it up to our community to decide if they want something that's a copy of the thing they own or not. Because, and that's another thing I didn't touch on was like, we're also trying to protect the people who bought into our project, who have spent, that someone could have bought in at 10 ETH. They bought like, it costs a lot to get this asset.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  And for someone just to like, copy their asset and now make it cheaper, like, they feel powerless when they see that happen. And so it's up to us to be the voice for, for our community and to take actions in that way. And so, we're working on it now, but we're creating a way that our communities can, community can be the one to kind of make these decisions. Because ultimately, like, it's their, it's their decision.

• 47:23Speaker 00

  On an individual cat by cat basis.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  In that way. That's interesting.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  It's like, are you fine with that? Because normally, you know, you, you have your cool cat, you can do whatever you want with the image you own. Like, and so when someone else is doing something with your image, you're like, wait, what? This goes against everything NFTs is about. NFTs is about ownership, so, um, and that's why we did that, so.

• 47:50David Hoffman?

  Zerion is the perfect place to view the entirety of your crypto portfolio, all in one spot. Not only does Zerion aggregate all the tokens across all of your wallets, but it also displays the NFTs that you've been tirelessly collecting. Zerion even reports the value of your NFTs in your overall portfolio, giving you the most comprehensive report on the entirety of your crypto portfolio. Zerion isn't just a place to get an understanding of your portfolio, but it also hooks into DeFi activities like trading, borrowing and lending, all in one convenient place. So you don't have to memorize all the various DeFi websites to do all of your DeFi activities. To get started, go to zerion.io/bankless and load up your wallet, or wallets, into the Zerion interface and supercharge your DeFi experience and enrich your NFT lifestyle. That's Z E R I O N slash bankless.

• 48:36Speaker 03

  I want to give a special thanks to overpriced JPEG partner Block Block. Not only because they are a sponsor of this show, but also because they are my employer. Block Block is an innovative blockchain lab. We work across NFTs and the metaverse. And our goal is really to push the industry forward with every new project we take on. We founded and currently run the MiBits DAO, which just partnered with Larva Labs to create more metaverse-friendly renderings of MiBits, which is awesome. We are also partnered with a Sundance Award-winning filmmaker to build the first DAO that will own a feature-length documentary film. We have a ton of cool projects down the pipeline and are really looking for cool people to partner with on this.

• 49:19Speaker 03

  So go to blockblock.io to subscribe to our newsletter and be kept up to date about what we have going on, and also to check out open roles we have available. Would love to have you apply, come work with me, coming out, blockblock.io. I want to talk about Milk/Gold, which first maybe explain what they are and the distinction between the two.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:43Speaker 03

  As something that's coming out as part of the Cool Cats project.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  So Milk and Gold is our token that we're offering. And I know it might be confusing, you're like, wait.

• 49:52Speaker 03

  Is it ERC20?

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And so this is literally like a cryptocurrency, like very much. That's how you should view it. And what's cool about it, by introducing a token into your project, it offers all of these interesting, like, new scenarios that you can do. Like going back to decision-making, like maybe there's, you know, it's about how many like coins you have or something. That's, that's actually a lame example, but there's a lot of things that you can now buy with Milk and Gold. And the first case that it'll be used is with the Cool Pets that we're coming out with, which is like our second offering for Cool Cats.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  And each cat that you own produces its own milk. And so by owning a cat, like we're adding utility to your cat and that it generates milk. And this milk will be like...

• 50:50Speaker 02

  I won't use that example. I was gonna say, your milk is like your gold, but then it gets confusing because we have gold.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  But like, the milk is like the, you know, the higher end token, but the only way you can earn it is by owning a cat or buying it from someone who owns a cat. And so that creates this whole other market within our project and like,

• 51:12Speaker 02

  that just adds to everything that we can do.

• 51:14Speaker 00

  And there's an expectation, I'm imagining, that milk will be available on Uniswap and will itself become a token that has an economy and gets traded. I mean, people refer to these and there's mixed feelings about it, but I'll say it and see a reaction of like, it's a passive income stream essentially as part of

• 51:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:30Speaker 00

  this project. I think CyberKongs is

• 51:32Speaker 02

  Kinda is, yeah.

• 51:33Speaker 00

  The one that originated this with banana tokens. And of course, now people can make $270,000 a year

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  off of the passive income just by owning a CyberKong.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Right. And like, kinda taking it back a little bit, that's why you invest in projects early. It's like, oh, I minted a cat for 50 bucks and I've held it for this long, believed in the project, now they're releasing gold and I get passive income through this. And you can choose to sell it or not, you know, that's on the user. But we have use cases for the milk. Like, if you wanna upgrade your egg, and a little context-

• 52:11Speaker 00

  Egg is part of the pet.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  Egg is part of the pet. And for every one cat that you, for one cat, you get one egg. So you own 20 cats, you get 20 eggs. And each one of those cats is also generating milk. And so with the milk, you're buying items to then feed to your pet and your pet will slowly grow up until it gets to the last stage and turns into like an elemental creature, or like pet. We used to call them creatures, but they're pets now. So- That's kind of the use case for the milk. And then we're gonna have different ways that you can use your milk in relation to your um your pet. And then gold comes in for the people who don't own a cat. And they we still want this other currency getting generated.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  So like you go on a quest or you do like some event that we're doing and you get like plus 100 gold. That's just a number I'm throwing out there. And so we're great, we have these two currencies that will work in tandem with each other. And kind of feed into our ecosystem. Or you're just trying to play the crypto game and like, you know, you wanna play the market with that. So it's really on the user.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  So is it safe to say, is this publicly said or not? That you've mentioned you're trying to build out potentially games with cool cats or kind of a gaming type ecosystem? And milk and gold would function as like in-game currencies within that hypothetically speaking?

• 53:42Speaker 02

  I forget what we've said publicly, but basically, yeah, like it's gonna be a an in-game currency for this whole pet offering. And further, like, you know, that's just step one is pets and so.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  The reason I find that interesting is because one of the concerns, I think, around these, again, call them passive income streams. And I think what's like CyberKongs in particular is it can feel like there's this circularity there where if I'm not mistaken, Banana, which is CyberKong's coin, can really only be spent for breeding. And you breed kind of new generation Kongs. But so each thing just props up the value of the, you know, like the only reason Banana is worth anything is because Kongs are worth anything. But Kongs are worth what they're worth because Banana is worth what they're worth. And there's kind of a scary, it feels like a little fragile to have an ecosystem that that's circular. I think it's it's much more interesting if if there is a game component, like if if this is for more than just.

• 54:39Speaker 00

  You know, kind of this, yeah, this circular process. I think that that's a much more interesting way to probably explore this concept.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  And we're so excited. Like, we're coming out with the beta test this Friday. And people will get to test out this whole system because it's tricky. Like, it's not that easy to just be like, oh, we're adding a currency and that's it.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Like, obviously, there's legal stuff you have to go through. And then there's balancing so that no, someone doesn't just get dropped like a bunch of money. And you're like, wait, why did that happen? So it's crazy.

• 55:15Speaker 00

  Are you dealing right now with lawyers with questions of like, is this a security? Or, you know, you feel comfortable that you're on the, you're on the non-security side of this?

• 55:23Speaker 02

  Oh, no, we're definitely getting help with all this because you don't want to, like, you really kind of only have one shot to go live with it. Because the second your currency is out there, you don't want it to flood the market. And now there's no value behind it. So, or you do, yeah, you just make a misstep. So we're definitely talking to people. It is a longer process than we first imagined, but we're taking the right steps to make sure when it goes live, it's picture perfect.

• 55:52Speaker 00

  I want to talk about your advice for artists and up and coming artists or, you know, in the NFT space, otherwise, I'm sure you get artists who come up to you all the time and are like, I want your life now, or I, you know.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Give me advice.

• 56:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, what do you have, you know, one main or a couple of main big pieces of advice for artists in this space particularly?

• 56:14Speaker 02

  In this space, yeah, because sometimes I just try to convince artists who are outside of the space to get in it and they just shut me down.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  It glaze over?

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're like, ah, you've, you've said too many words. And I get it because I went to art school.

• 56:26Speaker 00

  And too many of them involve blockchain and I'm like officially.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  I heard decentralized somewhere in there. But for artists in the space. I personally think making a brand of yourself as an artist goes a really long way. Cause like, obviously what you as an artist, whatever you do, you're attaching like, or a project you're on is also attached to you. So like, I had mentioned earlier, um, I'm pretty sure Cool Cats was really the first 10K project to come out with an artist behind it and no one had really seen that. It was mostly people like hiring artists to, to make their work. And so, um, just being the voice of the work that you're making goes a long way.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  And, um, people really like to connect to the artist. And so that's why like getting on Twitter Spaces, just having good content on Twitter, like, it's tough for people just to find you. I've been there for, for many, many years and people unfortunately don't just find you if you're not doing anything. You have to kind of be vocal. Um, and of course, like, can they relate to you? People are gonna relate to artists they like. And there's plenty of people in the space who don't relate to me. But then there's people who love, uh, video games and watching anime or like being a Dgen on the internet and like, those are things they relate with. And they're like, oh, I like this artist. I like their work.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  Like, I feel that connection and that's what's gonna keep people around is forming that connection. Um, and so, cause I just know, I, I've been there as well, but I've seen a lot of artists who kind of stick their nose up a little bit and think that, you know, their work will speak for itself and maybe it will, maybe it will. But, um, I think making a brand of yourself helps out a lot.

• 58:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I saw something recently and I think that was like Picasso was one of the only painters who actually was famous while he, he was still alive or like one of the only artists, like you might be a genius, but assume that other people aren't gonna pick up on your genius and that unfortunately you still need to, you know, uh, market yourself in, in a way. What I heard you saying there, it felt like was a, was a note about authenticity. So you're like, uh, some people won't relate to me. And I think that's actually a critical piece of this is like to build a brand and to build a, whether it's a personal brand or a art brand or whatever, that people. Love and strongly relate to the way they do something like Cool Cats. You inevitably have to have people who don't relate to you. Like if you're appealing to everybody, you're not gonna have divers.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  You're not gonna make it.

• 59:05Speaker 00

  That's sort of not the way it works. And so being really authentic to who you are means you'll you'll find your tribe. I think what I hear you describing there.

• 59:14Speaker 02

  Absolutely. You synthesized that perfectly. Like you have to find your tribe. You're not gonna appeal to everyone. Like it's just an unrealistic view. You kind of have to find your niche and then like stay within that. And then that will grow, you know, if people like relate to it or whatever. But, you know.

• 59:34Speaker 00

  How important do you think? Sorry, finish that.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  No, I was just gonna say, like I said, I'm just trying to ride that cute and cool scale. You know, it's like the sphere I'm in. And and staying light-hearted and just goofy, like I'm not trying to take it seriously.

• 59:48Speaker 00

  How important do you think networking is in this space? It feels like kind of a, not a dirty word, but we think about like in finance, you want to network. And this space, it feels like not cool to be like all like business networking. But I think it's important for people to to realize it. It might be important. I don't know if you want to say any words on that.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  No, it's it's very important. Like networking is huge. Some of the contacts that we got, like our first collab with Ghost. And Ghost is, for people who don't know, is a very big artist in the space. And I he'd actually reached out to me and I didn't know who he was at first. And I forgot to get back to him. And then, you know, I'm in the space like a week later and I'm hearing people talk about this ghost person. I like buy their piece because I like it. And then because of that, he messaged me again and we started networking that way. And like, that's the reason we ended up collabing with each other is because we networked and we started talking. And that like.

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  Be a good person as well, like, you know, don't be full of yourself because at the end of the day, we're all friends in this. That's how I view it. And like a lot of the people we've collaborated with, I've had a great conversation with. And you're just creating these bonds that get tighter and tighter. Because we're in a lucky time in NFTs right now where the space is still so small that you can make a lot of friends with a lot of people in the space and propel each other up. And there's a reason we say, we're gonna make it, like, we're all in this together. Let's help each other out. Like, oh, Bored Apes just did something amazing?

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  Well, that's good for all of us. It's just Jimmy Fallon bought a Bored Ape. That's amazing for all of us. That's just validating the space. And so networking is huge.

• 1:01:49Speaker 00

  Do you think there are any main or major pitfalls that you see artists in this space fall into? Or that you'd warn against?

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  Don't defend yourself too hard. The internet can be rough. And it can be easy to see a comment on Twitter talking about your project. That some guy out there is like, oh, not gonna make it. And like, don't let that get you down. Just keep striving with the community that you have or things like that. It's just because it's so ingrained on the internet, we have a lot of strong personalities who sit behind their computer. And I've seen some artists get defensive when they get in that situation and it can end up harming them because it's just not a good look, you know? And that's maybe a specific use case, but I have seen it and it's unfortunate.

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  So you have to pick your battles or just like brush things off and keep showing people why you're amazing.

• 1:02:48Speaker 00

  I want to close by talking a little bit about the industry as a whole. You mentioned buying One of Ghosts artwork.

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:55Speaker 00

  I'm curious, like, are you still somebody who shops in the space? Do you, you know, are you still like an NFT degener? Do you have any projects right now that you're super into that you want to call out? Like, what are you buying these days?

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:06Speaker 00

  Okay, go, do it.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  And so recently, shout out to Doug, the artist of Toy Boogers. And Toy Boogers just came out.

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  And I, it's funny, I bought into the project without doing my research, which is a no-no. I recommend everyone do your own research. But luckily, it was a good bet. I, their, their collection is so fun. And minting it gave me the exact feeling I got minting Cool Cats of like, you, you click the button to mint and the thing you saw, you instantly fell in love with. And it was just this like wacky combination, like, like Cool Cats, you have like a knight helmet with ninja, like crying or something stupid, I don't know. And so with Toy Boogers, it's like, like it's wearing a donut head with a squid body, like riding a skateboard. And it's so lighthearted and fun.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  And that's why it like really let, like, pushed me towards it. But then what me, what really like solidified that for me was meeting the artist and like understanding their process that they weren't really like an artist in the space. Like, they just liked to draw. And so they like hand drew every asset and then like changed it into vector. So it was digital. And then just started piecing all 3,033 of them by hand.

• 1:04:35Speaker 00

  So they didn't have a dev like coding the gener- oh my gosh.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  No, they put each single one of them together. And to me, that was like, this person wanted it. They didn't have the right tools to just like give it to a dev and make it happen. They wanted it. They, that was dedication right there. And so that's what ended up like, I was already sold on the project, but that drove the nail through the coffin.

• 1:04:57Speaker 00

  How did you find them? How did you find this project?

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  So another, like what I love about the community, it was a Cool Cats community member who's been in there since day one. And they reached out to me and were like, hey, I'm on this project of this artist who's doing, you know, toy boogers. And I only saw like two of what they looked like. And I was like, oh, cool. Like, I get it. And I like, I had different ideas of what it was. And then I looked at their collection like as a whole. And I was like, oh, my gosh, these are so much fun. They all seem so unique and different. Um, and so I minted three of them, forgot about it all day, got on Twitter and their, their Twitter page was like, oh, Clon got one. And it was like, I'm so happy, blah, blah, blah.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  And then, uh, people reached out and were like, you got a rare one, by the way. And I'm like, wait, wait, let me look at all these. And, uh, it was just so much fun to see them. And I got so excited, I minted like six more on the spot. I was like, I want more of these. I had so much fun. And so then I was spending all this time in their Discord, just chatting away. And like-

• 1:06:03Speaker 00

  I think that's a great example of the networking we're talking about. Where like, because this person had been in your community for a long time, had been active, had like, had, had built a name for themselves as a community member there. They were able to get access to you where somebody who's just trying to like, shill you a one-off is, is not gonna connect in that way. So like, you know, and I'm not an artist in this space, but I do have artists ask me, cause I talk about this space, like, how do I get into it? And, and I'm like, take time. Like, if you're not already in the community, I mean, make your art all along. But like, it, maybe it takes a year, but like, uh, you know, hopefully less. This space moves really fast, but correct, immerse yourself, be in these discords, be an active, giving community member to other people's projects. And that feels like the best way to have it fed back to you if you want it your own.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Yeah, Discord is a great space to get even closer to people. Like Twitter, there's a little bit of a wall, cause it's all social media. But Discord, you get to like, have these conversations. Like, I just talk to the artists right away. Like, because they're in their Discord. And so that's how you network. And I agree, like- Because I knew this person through Cool Cats, I was willing to give them the extra bit of, like, few seconds to be like, "Oh, let me actually look at your project. This isn't just you shilling to me," like you said. Because you get a lot of that. And it gets taxing. And you're just like, then you start to shut people down, which is unfortunate, because I don't want to be that way. But it's like, I can't just look at, I can't buy into every part.

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  Only so many hours in the day.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  Only so many hours, so much ease. Like, I can't just do it all, so, yeah.

• 1:07:36Speaker 00

  Do you think the PFP market is oversaturated today?

• 1:07:41Speaker 02

  I do, I do, I do it. And I'm really waiting for what's next in blockchain and Web 3. It's unfortunate.

• 1:07:50Speaker 00

  You mentioned that earlier. What do you think that is? Like, this is a big question I had for you.

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Gamifying, like, I guess, kind of like, what, games? Because it's already like, what a lot of these people already do is game. And so, but it works well with Web 3. I really want to see more musicians in the space. I want to see more people using the idea of what an NFT is. I've seen people use it as a ticket for something. So like, I recently just bought a ticket for someone who's gonna go put my cat on a mural somewhere, because that was what they were offering. They're like, "Hey, if you buy one of these seven tickets, I'm painting this mural in this place, and you can be a part of that if you've gotten a ticket." And so like, there's cool things like that that you can do

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  with tokenizing an asset that like, has a receipt behind it, has, you know, you can see the transaction. That's what's so beautiful about the blockchain. Everything is transparent. And so I'm really interested to see where people take this and go. I think we're in this stage of PFP projects, because it's easier, and we've seen it done so many times. Like, obviously, Cool Cats was not the first one to do it. Board Apes was not the first one to do it. CryptoPunks kind of was. And so they started that idea, and then you saw all these personalities coming out, people forming a brand behind their PFP.

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  And it gets to the point where people have already made their brand, so they don't want another PFP to represent them. And that's why I don't think it's gonna last too much longer, unfortunately.

• 1:09:34Speaker 00

  I was gonna ask where you you think the biggest opportunities for innovating are, you know, given that. But it sounds like you kind of referenced some just now. I mean, obviously, gaming musicians, it sounds like you're saying. Do you have any others where you're like, here, here's a gap I see that if I didn't have all of my time locked up in Cool Cats, I might be taking advantage of.

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  I wanna see someone who really ties their NFT into the real world, if that makes sense, like.

• 1:09:59Speaker 00

  Like a Pokemon Go, but it's, you're going and finding NFTs, I think.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, something like, and that comes back to gamifying it. So that's why I say gamifying is just a blanket term of like, how do you make it even more interactive? Cause the biggest thing, the biggest selling point behind an NFT is, is what's the utility?

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  Because if there's no utility, they have to like the art. And if the art's not good, then no one's gonna buy it, so.

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's tough. I I'm so curious, like, people smarter than me are gonna figure it out. Or or Cool Cats will will hopefully set a.

• 1:10:40Speaker 00

  Pave the way.

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  Pave the way, we're hoping.

• 1:10:44Speaker 00

  Okay, final question. I'm curious, like, what does a day in your life look like now? After launching Cool Cats, like, what is like an NFT superstar artist do today?

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  It's not as glorious as some people might think. It's a lot of talking. And it's funny, cause I I, through Cool Cats, I've gotten better, but I was not a talker before. I didn't like.

• 1:11:07Speaker 00

  Well, you're doing great.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you, cause I get really nervous inside. I did a, an interview where I had to go like, be in front of a camera and do that, and that was like, I essentially like, in my, in my head, I like blacked out and I was like, couldn't remember what I said, but they're all like, you did great, like, that was awesome, like, cool, cause I don't remember. But to go back to your question of what's a day in the life, like, if I just literally tell you, like. I wake up and I have to wake up around like, I wake up at six and then get at my computer at like seven AM.

• 1:11:42Speaker 00

  You're an early bird.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  I was luckily always an early bird, but because of this, um, we have people who live in the UK. We have people who live, you know, in Asia, like there's so many time zones, but mainly the UK because they're in our, the founders. I had to shift my whole schedule to like work with that. Because I wake up and like, I wake up to a bunch of notifications because I'm the last one to wake up. And so I first wake up, go through all of that, make sure I'm good. I'm the worst at responding to people.

• 1:12:16Speaker 00

  That means Discord, I assume Discord and DMs and things.

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  Discord, Twitter, uh, Slack to talk to the team. And it's just a whole thing, but then, you know, we have a team meeting or the founders get together. We talk about what we want to do for the week or the day, whatever, where we're at. And then I get to some drawing if I have some time. And it's weird, I'm, I'm drawing like less sometimes because I have to talk more and like put myself out there. Network, like we talked about, um, it's at that stage where you just want to keep networking, you know, you have the project.

• 1:12:53Speaker 02

  And then mainly just either, yeah, like draw or talk, get on Twitter spaces, be active on Twitter. Make sure people know you're still alive. Um, and then.

• 1:13:02Speaker 00

  You do Twitch streams where you.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  I'm doing one today.

• 1:13:05Speaker 00

  Do art, okay.

• 1:13:06Speaker 02

  So that was an idea that started before launch and we were like, hey, let's make Coolcat assets with people. And so some of the, the assets you see were drawn on the Twitch stream. And so I've kept that going every Wednesday, um, so I'll do one today. And it's just a nice way to connect to the audience even more, just like making that community bond even closer. They get to see that like, oh, I see Clon's process as he draws. Last week I did a, a tutorial video explaining how to do a generative project from scratch.

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  And so things like that, people really respond to and you know, just education. So I do all that, get my work done. And then my best friend who lives in Georgia, we have a cutoff point where we like to play video games together and I just disconnect from reality. Just play some video games and then usually like eat dinner and then draw a little bit more at night, just like doodle on my iPad. So that's the day in life.

• 1:14:13Speaker 00

  Beautiful. It sounds like a good life, man. That's, that's great.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 1:14:18Speaker 00

  Well, thank you so much for all this insight, for coming on. This was great. I'm sure people are going to love it and just getting to know you even further. And I've thoroughly enjoyed getting to know you more. And what's the phrase, the cool cats community, you guys say, we like the cats.

• 1:14:31Speaker 02

  We like the cats.

• 1:14:32Speaker 00

  We love the cats. We like the cats, baby.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  We like the cats. So what can I say? What's my pitch to when we're talking to companies? Well, simple, we like the cats.

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  Boom, sold.

• 1:14:42Speaker 00

  Sold.

• 1:14:49David Hoffman?

  Hey, we hope you enjoyed the video. If you did, head over to Bankless HQ right now to develop your crypto investing skills and learn how to free yourself from banks and gain your financial independence. We recommend joining our daily newsletter, podcast and community as a Bankless Premium subscriber to get the most out of your Bankless experience. You'll get access to our market analysis, our alpha leaks and exclusive content and even the Bankless token for airdrops, raffles and unlocks. If you're interested in crypto, the Bankless community is where you want to be. Click the link in the description to become a Bankless Premium subscriber today. Also, don't forget to subscribe to the channel for in-depth interviews with industry leaders, Ask Me Anythings and weekly rollups where we summarize the week in crypto and other

• 1:15:34David Hoffman?

  fantastic content. Thanks everyone for watching and being on the journey as we build out the Bankless Nation.