Jocko Underground: Yes, Embrace the Process. But...

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 108, sitting here with EC, Echo Charles.

• 0:08Jocko Willink?

  And me, Jocko Willink. Have you heard, embrace the process?

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:13Jocko Willink?

  You heard that, right?

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm down.

• 0:14Jocko Willink?

  Kind of a, and there's a bunch of variations of it, right?

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 0:17Jocko Willink?

  Bunch of variations, that you've got some goal, you've got some objective that you're trying to achieve. And I think the underlying thing is, look, you gotta enjoy, like, embrace trying to get there. And there's also an underlying, maybe, theme, that you might not actually get there, right?

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 0:39Jocko Willink?

  Or that it might take a lot longer than you think, right?

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:44Jocko Willink?

  So the idea of embracing the process, gotta...

• 0:53Jocko Willink?

  It's like you're gonna win regardless, which is kind of a good thing. I like it. So I get it. I'm down. I understand. I understand the intent behind telling somebody, let's say you meet some young wrestler. And he's like, "I wanna be a state championship. I wanna, I wanna be the state champ."

• 1:11Jocko Willink?

  And you could say, "Okay, that's awesome." You probably would be smart to tell him, "Hey, embrace the process too, man. You gotta, you gotta embrace the grind. It's gonna be hard work." And you're kinda saying, "Look, you may or may not be champ." I mean, if you're in California and you're gonna be state champ, you got, that's a rare person, rare human, to be a state champion in a state. So, you might not become champion, but if you embrace the process, the training, the wrestling, the travel, the competition,

• 1:44Jocko Willink?

  it still is a win, right? I mean, I think so. Or you have someone that wants to be, you know, everybody, uh, wants to be, uh, successful in their business world. So they're trying to build their business. And you could tell someone,

• 1:57Jocko Willink?

  "Hey, great, that'll be awesome when you make it," right? But that's, it might be smarter to tell them, "Hey, that's awesome that you have those lofty goals. Embrace the process."

• 2:09Jocko Willink?

  So, I get it.

• 2:12Jocko Willink?

  But I also think it's important to remember something, and that is to evaluate your process. Is it working?

• 2:22Jocko Willink?

  Is it working? Cause if you're embracing the process, but you're not winning and you're not progressing, then that's a problem because you can, you can spin your wheels, right? You can spin your wheels, you can rev the engine, put the, you can put your, the pedal to the floor.

• 2:44Jocko Willink?

  And you're expending fuel and making a lot of noise, but guess what? You're not going anywhere. So I just wanted to bring up the fact that it's great to embrace the process and I hopefully, hopefully whatever you are doing out there, you enjoy doing it. I know I enjoy what I do. I've always enjoyed what I've done. I've always had a good time doing it. I've always embraced the process, but there's definitely times in my life where I was like, hey, I need to adjust my process because it's not working. So just be careful of that at work,

• 3:18Jocko Willink?

  at home,

• 3:20Jocko Willink?

  in sports, whatever is that you're doing, music, whatever is you're doing. You go to, as you go down the path, as you follow the process, make sure that you're actually making headway.

• 3:33Jocko Willink?

  Because if you aren't making actual progress and headway, then you need to adjust the process so that you get better results.

• 3:43Jocko Willink?

  That's it. That's my PSA for the day.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, fully. Yeah, like, um, what do you go, and you said this, be sure you're building towards something. Where like, yeah, you're not just freaking laying bricks for the sake of laying bricks. Be sure that those bricks are adding up to be some kind of wall.

• 4:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and there's some kind of structure to it and you have a plan and you know what it is you're trying to build. Just don't be, don't be going to pick up bricks and putting them in a pile.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:11Jocko Willink?

  That's not what you're looking to do. And you know what? You can enjoy the process of moving bricks.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, hell yeah.

• 4:17Jocko Willink?

  I started, I got hired out of a Wendy's to go work construction.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Hell yeah.

• 4:23Jocko Willink?

  And like, the guy's like, what are you doing here? I'm like, getting money. He's like, you want to do something else? I'm like, yes. He didn't tell me what it was.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:30Jocko Willink?

  I told him, yes.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:32Jocko Willink?

  And, uh, so cool. The next day he goes, come here, come to this job site tomorrow. So I show up there. The very first thing he said to me was like, okay, you see, a big dump truck had come and dumped off a bunch of concrete box. They were sitting, you know, just on the edge of the job site and they need to be in, into this found, where the foundation had been dug. But now block was going to be put in. And he's like, yep, take all those blocks, move them over there. We're going to like get some other equipment or whatever. I ran.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:00Jocko Willink?

  I ran, ran and started moving blocks like running. I enjoyed the process.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:08Jocko Willink?

  I enjoyed the process. Like it was good work. Like you're moving, you're balancing. Cause it was a little, I had a little, uh, you know, like a two by eight across a little span of, so I had to do a little balancing act.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:18Jocko Willink?

  But I'm running. He came back, they were back in like 15 or 20 minutes. I already had it done. I think he thought it was going to take an hour and a half.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:27Jocko Willink?

  Maybe probably, no, maybe he thought it was going to take an hour. I was running.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:32Jocko Willink?

  My point is, I enjoyed that process. But I knew the objective was to get the blocks into this position so they could be, but what if I'd just been running around putting the blocks in random places? It wouldn't make much sense.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  No.

• 5:44Jocko Willink?

  Doesn't help. So embrace the process. Yes, everybody. But make sure that your process is giving you progress as well. That's what I got.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Well, what do they say? The, the man who loves the destination won't go as far as the man who loves walking. That's like a thing.

• 6:03Jocko Willink?

  Same thing.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's, you know.

• 6:05Jocko Willink?

  Same thing. And I get it. I get it. Enjoy and everybody, that's it. Enjoy the journey. The journey is what? The journey is half of getting there? What's that one?

• 6:14Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 6:15Jocko Willink?

  Half the fun is just getting there, something like that.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:19Jocko Willink?

  It's the, it's the journey, not the destination.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Yes, I've heard that one.

• 6:22Jocko Willink?

  But I'm saying with all these, there has to be a balance. You have to, yes, know what your destination is. You have to want to get there. But then you should also enjoy the process. And if you're looking at your process and it's not getting you towards the destination that you want to go, just check it. Make some adjustments. That's it. Zoom Rockets, science.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, even if you have a destination, right? Because look, I can play video games and really enjoy that process, you know, of saving the princess.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Super Mario Brothers. But, you know, if, if video games don't, I don't have a goal in mind, like I said, just spinning your wheels on that one. It's true.

• 6:58Jocko Willink?

  Nope.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Bro, at the muster?

• 7:00Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  This last one. You know, the PT, yeah, I'm, I'm gonna say it. So you know, the PT is up on the top floor of the parking structure?

• 7:08Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  And you gotta walk from the hotel exit to the parking structure, no elevators, stairs, right? And what is that, five floors?

• 7:14Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Parking structure floors, a little bit higher than a normal house or something. So I walk up there and I remember thinking, hey, wait, on that last flight, I was a little bit more tired than I expected to be, just from walking up.

• 7:27Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  I even asked Megan, at the time, I was like, hey, you're an athlete, like, were those stairs like? I mean, I'm not gassed, but I'm just saying, you know, when I look at stairs and I'm gonna walk up them, I have a like a subconscious expectation of how tired I'm gonna be at the end. You know, it's just the way it works. And I went up there and I was more tired than I expected. Like, I was surprisingly tired. Wasn't super tired, but surprisingly tired. And she was like, no, no, no, that's about right. Like, you know, they do creep up on you, especially at the end there. So I'm like, okay, cool. Next day, I'm like, okay, I, I remember that. So now, when I, when I walk up the stairs, I'm gonna be like, hey, this is like a little micro workout. So I did that and walking up the stairs, nothing crept up on me as far as like stress goes, you know, on my legs, you know what I'm saying?

• 8:13Speaker 01

  So, cause I don't mind working out, like working out is like kinda cool. Even the process of working out is cool, you know, you know, kind of a thing. But if you're just trying to get somewhere and now you're feeling the pain of working out, all of a sudden kinda sucks. You're not embracing the process in that way, see what I'm saying? But you embrace the process, say, hey, this is like a little micro workout. It makes it way better.

• 8:33Jocko Willink?

  Does make it better. Carrying those blocks, little micro workout.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  It's true, see, and you, and I think you've had this your whole life. This is my conclusion, my current working conclusion. You just wanna be hardcore. Like you, to you, if it's, if the way you do something is like the more hardcore, that's better to you in your mind, not so everyone else can see, not that, just for your own hardcoreness. Like if you can suffer and just freaking battle through it, that's hard. And that's any within the realm of being hardcore in your opinion for yourself personally, you like that, that's what I've concluded. And I think as a kid, these bricks, construction, it was like freaking, this is kinda hardcore in this sun and freaking doing it.

• 9:13Jocko Willink?

  I was just super happy to not be at Wendy's on a grill, bro.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  I'm sure that helped. Yes, sir.

• 9:18Jocko Willink?

  I was like, whatever you need me to do, bruh, I doubt.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's not much, there's not much wiggle room to be hardcore cooking at Wendy's as much. You know, you gotta get pretty creative in that environment.

• 9:29Jocko Willink?

  All right, let's get some questions.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Some first question, okay, I've been working on my anger for years. I'm 31, my frustrations mainly come during disagreements with people. I don't scream or rage anymore, but I do show other signs of deep frustration and can get off track from calm logic if the person I'm talking to pushes into my frustration. Sometimes I see that I can bounce back. I still wanna stand my ground on the disagreement, but, but also I'm ashamed of my anger shown through like squinted eyes and maybe flared nostrils. That's a sign of anger. I'm conflicted because I don't, I didn't do anything evil and I don't think I need to apologize for it, but I do show weakness and don't know how to recover socially from it.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  I need to apply deep breath, I need to apply the deep breath more often, but I'm looking for advice on, on a viewpoint on when you should feel ashamed and when you, when you just need to adjust. After I recover from being angry even a little, I just feel ashamed.

• 10:33Jocko Willink?

  Maybe you don't feel that ashamed because if you did, you'd stop doing it. You pointed out, I think that that anger is a weakness. Losing your temper is definitely a weakness. It's embarrassing.

• 10:48Jocko Willink?

  There's no reason for you to do that. So, so what do we do here? We have to detach, right? First of all, you gotta recognize what the signs are that you're about to lose your mind. So in your case, it sounds like squinting your eyes and flaring your nostrils. You gotta pay attention and actually catch that as it's happening. Because once it's happening, you've already lost your temper. The freaking trains left the station and it's game over. So you need to take a step back and recognize what's going on.

• 11:17Jocko Willink?

  So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jockounderground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is, free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections,

• 12:01Jocko Willink?

  better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's jockounderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.