Bad Millennial

On this week's show, special guest Nicola Fumo from Racked joins us to talk about Apple. But we couldn't get to Apple right away, because Oculus up and decided to announce a million VR things. So Dieter Bohn had feelings about those VR things. Then Nilay Patel had feelings about WWDC things and Emily had feelings about Apple Music things. Then Nicola had feelings about Millennials. That's what The Vergecast is for: feelings. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Nilay Patel?

  Hello, everybody.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:08Nilay Patel?

  That's how the show starts now. Just me going, "Hey, everybody." It's, look, here, here's the truth. It is June 12th, 2015, and this is The Vergecast, which is a show that I think today is gonna be just all over the place. For one extraordinarily special reason, but here, let me just do a quick introductions. I'm Neelai Patel. Emily Yoshida is here, because we're gonna talk about Drake, basically, full-time. Dieter is here as well.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  Yes, hi.

• 0:33Nilay Patel?

  And then, here's, here's why I'm so excited. I'm ridiculously excited. On this, June 12th, 2015. Sam Sheffer is not here. There's a great story why Sam isn't here. And taking Sam's place is something that I've, I've wanted to have happen for a long time. Nicola Fumo from Ract.com is here.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:49Nilay Patel?

  Hey. You gotta get way close.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  And Ract is...

• 0:52Nilay Patel?

  Do you tell us, what is Ract?

• 0:54Speaker 01

  Ract is the incredibly cool fashion and shopping site that happens to share an office building and parent company with The Verge.

• 1:02Nilay Patel?

  It's true.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  So, our job is to be in the communal kitchen...

• 1:07Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, we flew her in.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna be in the communal kitchen looking at weird Verge guys and being like, "Nah."

• 1:12Nilay Patel?

  That's it.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  The hype desk is remarkably stark. It's just like gray and black.

• 1:16Nilay Patel?

  I'm a minimalist.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  I work in the business of stuff and I hate things.

• 1:21Nilay Patel?

  Perfect for this show. So, you might have seen, if you watch our Apple Watch review, Nicola was in the Apple Watch review. We, I did a video with Nicola for Ract about the Apple Watch. So, I've been wanting to do more stuff with Nicola for a long time. But the reason Sam isn't here, which is amazing, is that our show...

• 1:35Speaker 02

  Isn't it a secret?

• 1:36Nilay Patel?

  It's not a secret. I can, I can say this.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  I mean, the...

• 1:38Nilay Patel?

  Look, it's not gonna be a secret if you watch local news in Kansas City. That's why Sam isn't here. So, Sam is out shooting an episode of Top Shelf with our video producer, Trey Shalhoub, who's gonna be on the show this time. He's usually behind the camera, but he's gonna be on the show. They are doing an episode on water toys, like water jetpacks and crazy stuff. They're in Kansas City right now riding what I believe to be the world's tallest water slide, or something like that.

• 2:02Nilay Patel?

  The Kansas City local news was so excited that The Verge was there videotaping the water slide, that the local news is now covering Sam and Trey riding a water slide.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  Who are making a story.

• 2:14Nilay Patel?

  Who are making a story about the water. So it's a total crazy.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17Nilay Patel?

  And the best part about it is that I think Trey is like not super pumped about the water slide. Like, it's like really tall.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Well, he has an injury right now.

• 2:26Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, and he's a armchair. And I am just desperately hoping that there is like a local news segment of like, man freaks out on water.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Dangling off the side.

• 2:37Nilay Patel?

  It won't even be an area man story because you're not from there.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  It'll be like symmetrical New York man.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Can't handle our water slide.

• 2:47Nilay Patel?

  This video is going to be amazing when we put it up on top shelf because Trey Shalhoun is, by a wide margin, the most beautiful man that works for The Verge.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Very symmetrical.

• 2:56Nilay Patel?

  And that's true. I don't even take that as an insult.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, just everybody knows it's true.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  It's like saying, well, this guy went to Harvard, like.

• 3:07Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, but like I just like cocky New Yorker defeated by local water slide.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:11Nilay Patel?

  That would be amazing. Anyway, so that's why Sam isn't here. He'll be back soon. But in the meantime, we have Nicola.

• 3:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:16Nilay Patel?

  Who, I will say this, we have to talk a lot about WWE. There's actually, while we're taping this.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  I don't know what that acronym is.

• 3:22Nilay Patel?

  Don't worry. That's why we're here.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  So let me, let me tell this story.

• 3:26Nilay Patel?

  But there's one thing we have to do. We have to like finish the housework.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 3:30Nilay Patel?

  So I did not tell Nicola what the hype seat is, or what her expectations are, or why she's sitting all the way over there.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  It's weird.

• 3:39Nilay Patel?

  It is weird. I like.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  I don't have a computer and everyone else does.

• 3:41Nilay Patel?

  That's fine. You've got a coffee cup. What's in it? Is it just straight vodka in the coffee cup?

• 3:45Speaker 01

  No, I went to Pret and I got a double Americano.

• 3:48Nilay Patel?

  Okay, that's.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Because I wanted to be jazzed.

• 3:51Nilay Patel?

  Too much story. You just had sick coffee.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  I like jazzed though as opposed to jacked.

• 3:55Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  You know, like, yeah, a little mellow.

• 3:59Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  I mean, you have Red Bull. That's jacked. I'm jazzed.

• 4:01Nilay Patel?

  I'm getting jacked of.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Letting that one go.

• 4:04Speaker 03

  Jack versus jazz.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  So here's the function of the hype seat.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  Tell me.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  So Sam usually sits over there. And as we talk about the news and things that are happening, Sam's job is to like, keep it real and rate things on a hype level of one to 10.

• 4:17Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  So I say like, hey, we're talking about, I don't know, Apple Music. Well, we'll just practice.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  So like Drake, hype check Drake.

• 4:25Speaker 03

  Eight.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  Wait.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  And then if you want, but.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  Wait, is it, is it, is it eight? Is it a number scale?

• 4:31Speaker 02

  It's supposed, it's Sam.

• 4:33Nilay Patel?

  It's supposed to be a formula.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  Sam.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  I thought it was like, it was like over, like overhyped or.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  No, it was, it was originally supposed to be a number.

• 4:41Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  But then.

• 4:42Nilay Patel?

  I would say Sam, continuing with our jazz theme.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 4:46Nilay Patel?

  Sam is more of a free form hype checker.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:48Nilay Patel?

  Right? Like there's.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Can you scat?

• 4:50Nilay Patel?

  There's an underlying structure that we all understand. But yes, Sam is hype scatting all over the place. So you feel free, I'm just gonna say hype check this or that.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 4:59Nilay Patel?

  And then you kind of respond.

• 5:01Speaker 03

  The way it feels right.

• 5:02Nilay Patel?

  The way it feels great.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 5:03Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, the way it feels right. And then if you want to just sort of like get in the mix, otherwise, uh, Sam knows no boundaries. So you can just do that as well.

• 5:10Speaker 03

  So sometimes called upon, other times interjecting.

• 5:12Nilay Patel?

  Yes.

• 5:13Speaker 03

  That's the hype seat?

• 5:15Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 5:15Speaker 03

  Desk?

• 5:16Nilay Patel?

  Sometimes called upon, other times interjecting.

• 5:18Speaker 03

  Is it the hype seat?

• 5:19Speaker 02

  It's the hype seat, which is at the hype desk where her swagasty sits.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Uh huh. Okay. Oh, okay. Good. We corrected it.

• 5:25Nilay Patel?

  It is a deeply confusing role.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  Perfect.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  But just, do you just do you?

• 5:30Speaker 03

  All right. Sounds good.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  I'm excited for this.

• 5:31Nilay Patel?

  Okay.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  So here's what happened.

• 5:33Nilay Patel?

  There's stuff happening right now. It's live.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  On just talking about WWDC, but we knew that there was an Oculus event happening. And we're like, oh, well, it's an Oculus event. They're probably gonna do all their big stuff at E3. And you know, Oculus, they, they always sort of like oversell, like, like we never, we weren't expecting it to be huge. But instead, what has happened in the past hour as we're recording this is Oculus has just unveiled a massive slew of hardware and news.

• 5:58Speaker 03

  Basically everything that anybody's been waiting for.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, the stuff we've been waiting for, for over two years. They're just like, oh yeah, here it is. It's like, wha- what?

• 6:05Speaker 03

  Is it that, that everybody just sort of has a white noise reaction to Oculus news now? It's just like, oh yeah, they're gonna do the same thing that they've been. shown at every other show or

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I mean, you know, there's a bunch of people there. So like we're we've got everybody on it. We're covering it. Casey Newton is there. He's putting up hands on photos with the new hardware right now. So it's very exciting, but it also has sort of, you know, discombobulated me a little bit because I was like, I'm gonna talk about watch OS 2.0 and instead it's like Oculus happening.

• 6:34Nilay Patel?

  Well, it's a huge like they showed off their new controller. They've got the new thing. There's about an Xbox thing.

• 6:41Nilay Patel?

  It's I think we're just so used to Oculus doing iterative.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Right, right. Here's the thing. Here's the thing again with like dots glued on it. So another computer can look at you.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  Well, we're very comfortable right now covering Oculus as maybe a thing that is continually in development like instead of like thinking about a year from now. Oh, we're going to be actually playing games on it or watching movies or whatever.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:02Speaker 03

  Like, which is exciting.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  All right. So just like here's

• 7:06Speaker 01

  What's Oculus?

• 7:08Speaker 03

  Good question.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  So Oculus is a VR headset. It's a company that

• 7:13Speaker 01

  VR stands for virtual reality.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Yes, and we were very excited about them a couple of years ago because they were this little scrappy little company. And they got bought by Facebook and we've been waiting for them to release their consumer product ever since then. And they have just now today basically announced and shown everything that they're doing, answering a whole lot of questions that we had about how it was going to work for regular people.

• 7:33Nilay Patel?

  Have you done any VR stuff at any events you've gone to? Has anybody ever put the thing on you? Because it is actually

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Is there fashion VR?

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Right. Not yet. Kim Kardashian Hollywood. Oh, my God.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  I just made her more billions.

• 7:49Nilay Patel?

  It's I mean, that stuff is coming like every event that we go to, particularly entertainment related events. There's some Oculus thing happening. It's like some beer company is like, jack it up and then

• 8:01Nilay Patel?

  and then you like live a different life, right? And it's just everywhere right now. And it's just crazy because it hasn't crossed over into fashion.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  I thought that fashion events were like, like ostentatious and like over the top and whatever. And then I went to some tech events. And I just was like, whoa.

• 8:16Nilay Patel?

  Wait, really?

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. When I went to South by Southwest Interactive, my mind was blown.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  Oh, that was a relatively

• 8:23Nilay Patel?

  Same brand activation.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  No, no, last year.

• 8:24Nilay Patel?

  Oh, last year.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Not the most recent one, the one before.

• 8:26Nilay Patel?

  Okay. Yeah. Why was mine done?

• 8:27Speaker 01

  It made Fashion Week look like slums, just like garbage slums of terrible nail polish giveaways and...

• 8:35Speaker 03

  Well, they just don't serve food. There's no barbecue at Fashion Week because Fashion Week, right?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  There's food, but it just like, ah, no, my mind was really, it was something else.

• 8:46Nilay Patel?

  Wait, what is a fashion event usually like?

• 8:49Speaker 01

  You get there, there's like a handsome man, he has a little platter on it, probably champagne, maybe also a cocktail. And like a water, water with like limes in it.

• 9:00Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  And he's tall and good looking and you're like, oh no, I don't want anything. Okay. And then you...

• 9:05Nilay Patel?

  Wait, hold on.

• 9:06Speaker 03

  Do you want to switch jobs for a week?

• 9:08Nilay Patel?

  I think we just learned way more about like your basic interaction with like handsome men and champagne than fashion events.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  Okay, paid beautiful people, it's very weird because it's like, it's like a, it's like, oh, you're paid to be here because you're good looking and like, I don't want to interact with you because like, I feel bad that you have to be here because you're good looking, but that's your job, but like you probably hate me, like...

• 9:31Speaker 03

  So those people exist, I feel like, at tech events or E3. They're just not men.

• 9:36Nilay Patel?

  Right. It's just the other way around.

• 9:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  And it's probably, yeah, there's probably less girls being like, no, I'm fine.

• 9:42Nilay Patel?

  No, there's just me just drinking all the champagne.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:45Nilay Patel?

  Just being like, you stay right here.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  So then you walk in and then there's usually like, um, there's probably like a Bosco photo booth at some, like there's some where to take your picture and hashtag it of yourself. Um, there's probably like lots of very small bits of food, like, like fancy food in like really tiny...

• 10:03Nilay Patel?

  What happens?

• 10:04Speaker 01

  You look at stuff.

• 10:05Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  That's pretty much it. Like it's whatever the stuff is.

• 10:09Speaker 03

  What do you clap for?

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm thinking like fashion, like a fashion event versus like a show.

• 10:14Speaker 03

  Like a show.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  No, no, no, a show is like, I mean, it really depends, it runs a gamut, but you, yeah, you walk in, you sit down, you wait 30 minutes after it was supposed to start for it to start. It happens, it's eight minutes.

• 10:26Nilay Patel?

  Are they beautiful people? No, I'm just, because our listeners don't know any of this, right?

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:30Nilay Patel?

  Like, a tech event like Oculus is like an elaborately staged production with people holding like headsets you wear on your face and telling you that the future will be different now.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, I mean, the future will be different now this dress. Like, you know what I mean? And then, and then it's over and then you, everyone leaves and no one talks and you leave. This just sounded like really bad sex. Like you show up, you wait, it's eight minutes and then no one talks.

• 10:53Nilay Patel?

  So better than a tech event?

• 10:57Nilay Patel?

  Fair to, I think that's a fair.

• 10:58Speaker 03

  And a man with champagne. Don't forget.

• 11:00Nilay Patel?

  A handsome man with champagne is there to make you feel awkward on your way in and out the door. That's what you want from a sexual encounter.

• 11:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  Anyway, so you gotta.

• 11:10Nilay Patel?

  This is prime brunch cast material. This is what the listeners are here for. Do you want to talk about the virtual reality headset some more, Dieter?

• 11:17Speaker 02

  I mean, I did, but now I can't think about the man with champagne.

• 11:20Speaker 03

  I want to talk about virtual reality and maybe not fashion, but lifestyle. Because actually, speaking of Kim Kardashian, Google recently announced the, this sort of kit of basically having 16, I think, GoPros. That you can, so you, anybody can kind of be a virtual reality caster through their system, cardboard. And I mean, that feels like the next kind of reality star to me is like, oh, I can go and plug in and be Kim Kardashian for the day.

• 11:50Nilay Patel?

  Oh, that would be wild.

• 11:51Speaker 03

  That's, I mean, that's all.

• 11:52Nilay Patel?

  Wait, don't you want to watch those people though? We had this big conversation yesterday. So just the, the basics of the Oculus stuff that's being announced right now.

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:59Nilay Patel?

  Is they're showing off the final hardware. There's going to be a camera that sits on your desk. It ships crazy with an Xbox One gamepad and everyone has thought.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it ships to the Xbox One gamepad. It still requires a PC, but you can stream Xbox One games to it, which means that like, that could be a potentially big deal. So you buy the kit, you get to stream Xbox One games. And then the, the last thing, the thing that we've been waiting forever for is they shipped a thing that they're calling Oculus Touch, which are these insane bracelet looking little controllers that detect motion that you can use in your hands. So you can actually control stuff in VR.

• 12:32Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  It's like, they, they look completely nuts.

• 12:36Nilay Patel?

  And there's this weird.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  There's a bunch of games coming too.

• 12:38Nilay Patel?

  And there's Xbox stuff, you know, like demo games.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 12:42Speaker 03

  And so, but that wouldn't be in virtual, that wouldn't be 360, right? That would just be like a big screen, like a screen that would take up like IMAX or something.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  I imagine it could be both, but more likely the, the actual VR games will just run on the PC. Cause the way that the, the way, I'm assuming that the way it works is you can stream Xbox One games to your PC now and play them on your PC. Like if you are like hanging out in your bedroom or something. And presumably like they're they're using that mechanism to get it to the Oculus Rift. I'm guessing. And so like, there's kind of no point to put VR on the Xbox One if it needs the PC as an intermediary anyway.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  But regardless, the fact that, but they could maybe, or like you could buy an Xbox One game that would come with the VR version for free or something.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  So like, Microsoft has now has the only company with like a AR solution, augmented reality solution, HoloLens.

• 13:32Nilay Patel?

  It just runs on a PC. It's just a controller. It's not, there's no Xbox near it.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Right. But what I'm like, they've got a partnership now with Oculus such that like, this is the VR thing that you use with Microsoft stuff.

• 13:45Nilay Patel?

  That makes sense. And Microsoft has a huge investment in Facebook, which owns Oculus, like all of the, there's an Illuminati conspiracy theory here.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:52Nilay Patel?

  Which is actually not a conspiracy theory. It's literally just that Microsoft owns a big chunk of Facebook, which owns Oculus.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  How big is that? Isn't that big a chunk? Seems like we, everybody brings it up all the time. And I don't think it's that much.

• 14:02Nilay Patel?

  I don't know.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  All right, whatever. Anyway. Bunch of stuff.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Wait, so this is, so it goes through, wait, so it goes through Xbox Live. Wait, so does that mean?

• 14:12Nilay Patel?

  It's just a controller.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Oh, how come? I feel like I saw, I'm confused.

• 14:18Nilay Patel?

  Right. So Oculus runs on a PC. You can pair an Xbox controller to a PC.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:24Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. So that's that. That's that whole thing. And then they have this new interface, which is a portal that lets you like buy and demo games, which looks very much like across, to my eyes, across between Steam and the Xbox.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 14:35Nilay Patel?

  Which is probably where all the confusion is coming in.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:38Nilay Patel?

  And it's like a 2D. Anyway, so this is like the first complete VR solution. You buy a bunch of stuff, you put on the headset, and you enter a different world and you leave your body behind.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Yep. So you'll be able to do that in the first half of next year. And then, or the first, I think it's maybe first quarter. And then you'll be able to buy these new touch controllers, in the first half of next year.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  That seems like Hype Check high.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Hype Check, Hype Check Oculus, everything we just talked about.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  I think it's very high.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  It sounds like there's new worlds.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  They're not real ones, but they're there.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Virtual world. There's something about Facebook. And money. And also Microsoft.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Microsoft. Hype Check Microsoft in your life. What was the last Microsoft product that you used?

• 15:29Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 15:30Nilay Patel?

  Right. Is your none? Have you used Skype recently?

• 15:33Speaker 01

  No.

• 15:34Speaker 03

  What do you write on?

• 15:38Speaker 03

  Chorus?

• 15:41Speaker 03

  Wow, right answer.

• 15:44Nilay Patel?

  Hype check, hype check our company's proprietary CMF.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  So here's why I'm excited about the Xbox stuff, even though it's not technically VR, because someone just tweeted this at me. I have a TV that is small. It's like 46 inches.

• 15:55Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  And like, I want a new TV, but you know what I don't need to do anymore to buy? I could just use this and I will have a giant screen. I have a giant screen for all my video games from now on.

• 16:04Speaker 03

  Okay, this is my fear right now, because immediately.

• 16:08Nilay Patel?

  Are we gonna share fears?

• 16:12Speaker 02

  I don't want to talk to anybody.

• 16:13Nilay Patel?

  I want to hear Emily's fear.

• 16:14Speaker 03

  Well, no, but for some reason, this, this announcement, which is like, you know, finally Oculus being this real thing that we're gonna be able to buy. And it's like, all, it's all gonna be there. For some reason, this made me take a giant step back to like a much more rudimentary use for Oculus, which would be, yes, like, not, not even doing games, watching Netflix.

• 16:32Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  On essentially like the best, in the best theater, like THX, black box theater you could get, except it's all here. And then I immediately think about getting stabbed while I'm watching.

• 16:45Nilay Patel?

  Oh, my God. Right.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  You know, like, I mean, it's, it's fine if you're in a theater, because you're actually in a place, you can see if somebody's gonna come up and try.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  Well, I'm picturing myself.

• 16:55Nilay Patel?

  Wow.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  I'm picturing that like in your bed, like.

• 16:59Nilay Patel?

  Everybody one at a time. I would like Emily to first complete her murder fantasy.

• 17:04Speaker 03

  It's not a fantasy, it's a fear. No, I mean, like, I mean.

• 17:08Nilay Patel?

  Well, you haven't heard my new series, Fear Fantasy.

• 17:12Speaker 03

  It's a new Beaver boss.

• 17:16Speaker 03

  No, I mean, like, if I'm in my apartment, I'm usually not afraid of that kind of thing, but for some reason, if I was, if I was, if I had, you know, Bose, whatever, sound cancelling headphones and completely face covering mask showing a movie, I would get nervous about all the things I couldn't see right then. I mean, I'd have to get like a giant padlock from my house, I feel like.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  I have a sleep mask, so I know how it is, and I live alone.

• 17:40Nilay Patel?

  Is that the, this, okay, I'm just gonna, and I hate to just like.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Your ears are open with the sleep mask.

• 17:46Nilay Patel?

  I hate to like aggressively correct you, but a sleep mask is less isolating than a noise cancelled virtual reality environment.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:54Nilay Patel?

  I promise you.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  I'll drop it onwards.

• 17:56Nilay Patel?

  Wait, what do you fear?

• 17:58Speaker 01

  In general?

• 17:59Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, just throw it out there.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Oh, man. I mean, what isn't there to fear?

• 18:07Nilay Patel?

  So we have been talking about, oh, by the way, there is this thing, the thing that you're talking about. There's another product called the Avigan Cliff, which is basically a huge set of headphones with a visor that flips down and beams 100 inch screen directly into your retinas, which is, it's like a laser display. It's wild.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 18:24Nilay Patel?

  It's very cool. They're working on that. So that's just the big display. And then the other thing they're doing is Oculus is partnering with airlines. So that you, when you sit in like coach, you can like put this thing on and just be in a different world.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. That seems great.

• 18:37Nilay Patel?

  That is my fear. Like my fear is that I'll be in a noise cancel environment, like looking at stuff like I'm in an aquarium. And the plane is like, just like fucking crashing.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  It'd be great if that's your last memory. I was like, oh, we're swimming with fishes in an aquarium. And then it was over.

• 18:52Nilay Patel?

  Does it say a lot about me that I went instantly to I'm in an aquarium?

• 18:55Speaker 02

  The idea of letting an airline control what I see in a VR headset is terrifying. I'm, I still get incredibly livid at the, the displays on the back seats and you're like, I keep turning them off, but they're like, they turn on and show me ads all the time. But if like in a VR environment, like we, we've gone and tried these like branded activation experiences in VR, but like you choose to do that. But like if VR becomes the way that we interact with screens.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Like that's a, that's a different kind of ad.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  It's Clockwork Orange. It's like.

• 19:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Well, they're not like drugging you to vomit every time.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Clamping your eyes open and making you watch branded content.

• 19:31Nilay Patel?

  That is the future of our business.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Or that Black Mirror episode.

• 19:35Nilay Patel?

  Would you ever sit in a room, which you've never worn a VR headset. So I just, you have to imagine this. Would you ever sit in a room with another person and wear this headset? Cause that's like, that's the whole and Dieter's argument, right? Is that instead of buying a big TV, everyone's just going to sit around together in these like virtual worlds.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Oh, you assume I have people that want to watch TV with me.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  You're watching the same thing, but you're watching it on, I mean, I think that like you might want to be precious about like how people are like in rooms together, but everyone is distracting themselves all the time. When they're in rooms together anyways. I don't think that it would take like more than like a couple of experiences to be like, yeah, I guess we just sit here with these things on now.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  That's so weird.

• 20:11Speaker 03

  I don't, no, I think that's the thing about film is that so few people watch TV or watch movies without doing something else.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  Except if you're like, and that's like why the-

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, like it's super boring to watch a bad Netflix show, but in VR, there's nothing- You're stuck in it.

• 20:26Nilay Patel?

  You know, I have a theory that Netflix shows are designed to let you check your phone. That's why they're so boring in the middle. Like Daredevil is just like endless sequences of brooding and it's like, yep, that's when I look at Twitter.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  This is the genius behind it, them doing the Xbox, because the Xbox lets you like snap a game of threes on the side of your screen. But you could play it, you can never, I hear what you're saying.

• 20:47Speaker 03

  Is there gonna be a thing where you can watch TV in a virtual world, but the screen is a part of the virtual world, so you can sit with your friends, like virtual, yeah, well, virtual avatars of your friends in a virtual space, watching a fake TV screen, so that you guys can all be watching your shows together?

• 21:04Nilay Patel?

  That is, that's the next generation of like, Xbox Live already had that, right? Where you would like watch Netflix all together with your friends on Xbox?

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:10Nilay Patel?

  This is just one terrifying-

• 21:12Speaker 02

  Step forward.

• 21:13Nilay Patel?

  Depressing step forward. I already feel bad, like Xbox Live, playing games with like a headset on, with like other fake people. I'm always like, why don't I just have friends that come to my house? And then the answer is, because I'm like in my 30s.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  So you think about the big questions.

• 21:29Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's, that's when I'm most alone, when I'm gaming with other people on the internet.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, sounds dark.

• 21:34Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Anyway, I've got to read an ad now, so just everybody, everybody hold your horses and then we have to talk about Apple. Did you do any research on Apple Music?

• 21:41Speaker 03

  I did.

• 21:42Nilay Patel?

  I'm gonna tease the next segment. Last night I emailed Nicola and I said, hey, I want you to come on the Vergecast.

• 21:47Speaker 03

  I would say 9:21 PM.

• 21:50Nilay Patel?

  Uh, yeah, it was late, it was late. And she wrote back to me, okay, great, what is Apple Music? Googling it now, which is amazing. Perfect. Okay, ready? It's my time.

• 22:03Nilay Patel?

  This episode of The Vergecast is brought to you by Lynda.com. The online learning platform with over 3,000 on-demand video courses helps strengthen your business, technology, and creative skills. For a free 10-day trial, visit lynda.com/vergecast. That's L-Y-N-D-A.com/vergecast. Lynda.com is for problem solvers, for the curious, for people who want to make things happen, like Nicola. It's for you.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:23Nilay Patel?

  Maybe you want to master Excel, Nicola. Maybe you want to learn some negotiation tactics or build a website so you can stop using Chorus. I don't know. You should keep using Chorus. Or boost your Photoshop skills. Go to lynda.com and feed your curious minds. Some courses worth checking out are iOS 8 SDK new features, which should be iOS 9 now, but hey, they're gonna have that soon. Excel 2011 for the Mac, where you can learn how to manage and analyze large amounts of data with sorting, filtering, and statistical and database analysis features. And designing a data visualization, where you can learn how to build a data viz in Illustrator using scripting for speed, accuracy, and repeatability. With a Lynda.com membership, you can watch and learn from top experts who are passionate at teaching. You can stream thousands of video courses on demand, learn on your own schedule. Courses are structured, you can watch them from start to finish, or just skip around.

• 23:07Nilay Patel?

  You can use course transcripts to follow along, you can just search for an answer, you can just bounce that portion of the video, you can take notes, which is, I think, important for learning. It is. You can also create and save playlists of courses you want to watch to customize your learning path, or share with others. Because as I have made repeatedly clear on this show, a non-customized learning path is for suckers. So, your Lynda.com membership will give you unlimited access to training on hundreds of topics, all for one flat rate. So if you're looking to become an industry expert, you're just passionate about a hobby, or you want to learn something new, please, visit lynda.com/vergecast and sign up for a free 10-day trial. That's L-Y-N-D-A.com/vergecast.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 23:46Nilay Patel?

  I have a notably different ad-read voice.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. It felt like, it just felt like cereal.

• 23:50Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Oh yeah, I know, it's like real pro in here. Except for that, you just read an ad for another company. That's just how it works.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  I know.

• 24:00Nilay Patel?

  They're supposed to pay us.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 24:02Nilay Patel?

  Now the male kimp girl owes me 20 bucks. That'd be awful. That poor girl. It's her job to just deliver huge checks to people. That's, it's a real sad story about Milk Camp.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  All right. So the Apple Worldwide Developer Conference.

• 24:16Nilay Patel?

  Okay, so you didn't.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  That is what WWDC stands for.

• 24:19Nilay Patel?

  So if you don't, yeah, why would our audience know this? So there's like a huge dat- like traffic dashboard that you can access at our company. Did you look at dashboard earlier this week? Did you see like we had a big spike on, was it Monday?

• 24:30Speaker 02

  Monday.

• 24:30Nilay Patel?

  That occurred, yeah, should, so.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  I mean, I believe you. I just wasn't, didn't have my eyes out for it.

• 24:34Nilay Patel?

  There's an Apple event on Monday, a huge developer conference, and this is.

• 24:36Speaker 03

  Oh, I know because on Slack, every Verge friend was like, I can't talk.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  I'm like, hey, it's Monday. Who wants to get coffee?

• 24:45Nilay Patel?

  We started a new reporter on Monday. We actually have a bad history of starting people at the worst times.

• 24:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:50Nilay Patel?

  So we started Emily at CES. I don't think she's forgiven me yet. Like, it's still like, every now and again, I'm like, oh, I'm having a really pleasant conversation with Emily. And I'm like, what is that note of just complete disdain? And it's like, oh, Emily started at CES.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  I still have like flashing strobe lights from, I don't know, a Sony keynote or something.

• 25:13Nilay Patel?

  The story for a different day. We started Chris Plant on an Apple Day. Still don't think he's ever forgiven me. And now we have a new reporter, Jamison Cox, who's great and has already written four stories.

• 25:21Speaker 03

  Yay, Jamison!

• 25:22Nilay Patel?

  He is gonna be awesome. But he started on Apple Day as well. And at one point, I think he said it to everybody, and he's like, this is like being in a NASA control room. Like, nobody would talk to him. Everyone was just like, sit down, be quiet, don't break anything.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  It's like, well, it's a good, it's a good day to watch things. It's just like, I'm not sure how easily you're gonna be able to like, follow it because it goes by so quickly.

• 25:42Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's wild. Anyway, so Dieter and I were there.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 25:45Nilay Patel?

  At Apple with Casey and a couple of video friends. They announced, what, a new version of iOS 10, a new version of iOS 9. They purchased Microsoft. Nope, they didn't buy that one. I was just seeing how I could throw that one. I hate you. I was seeing how I could get out there. You were just like looking out the window. Anyway.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  iOS 10, iOS 9. iOS 9, watchOS 2.

• 26:10Nilay Patel?

  The new version of the thing for the watch. They changed the spelling of the watchOS, which is like a big deal.

• 26:15Speaker 03

  What do you mean?

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Lowercase w, capital O, capital S, one word.

• 26:19Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  Which gives me some really deep WebOS feels. I'm just.

• 26:23Nilay Patel?

  It's called watchOS. That's cool. So they did that and then they announced Apple Music and Drake was on stage and then The Weeknd played. So it was like this whole crazy thing. The new version of OS 10, the operating system that runs almost every computer at this company is called OS 10 El Capitan.

• 26:39Speaker 03

  Too much.

• 26:40Nilay Patel?

  Yes. A little too much, but they're very proud of it.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  It sounds like, um, like a Mexican restaurant that doesn't have good Mexican food. It's a name of Disney's theater on Hollywood.

• 26:53Nilay Patel?

  Well, you killed Dieter, so there's that.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  Actually, let me tell you about El Capitan.

• 27:02Speaker 03

  It's the name of the theater, Disney's theater on Hollywood Boulevard, like where they premiere all the Pixar movies.

• 27:08Nilay Patel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 03

  It's like some tie, some synergy.

• 27:10Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, because they, you know, Steve Jobs used to be the biggest shareholder of Disney. I'm sure it's a tribute. Anyway, so they named it that. They spent basically no time talking about it. They're like, it has some new features, it goes a little bit faster and you can move windows around.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  You want to hear my deeply nerdy thing?

• 27:24Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  About El Capitan? So they can move windows around in a new way and do split screen, whatever. The deeply nerdy thing about it is they, they've got this thing called Metal, which is like you code to the metal, you code closer to the metal. What it means is that they can do graphics better, basically. And that they're bringing it to the Mac and they're running all of their Windows stuff through this so that all of, all the graphics stuff that a Mac has to do, it's way more efficient. My secret dream hope is that all the, you know, 40% faster, 2X app launches, previews open this much faster, all that stuff that they did.

• 27:56Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  If they can run more graphics through Metal, then maybe, maybe. Maybe the new MacBook might feel way faster and it could be my next computer.

• 28:06Nilay Patel?

  That thing is, I know you want that computer. I want it too, but it's not, it's not gonna happen for you.

• 28:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  One time my dad got a special graphics card so I could play The Sims.

• 28:15Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  So I know about slow loading graphics.

• 28:19Nilay Patel?

  There you go. You're into it. Let me ask you a question. How often do you consider the operating system on your laptop?

• 28:24Speaker 01

  I mean, what do you mean?

• 28:24Nilay Patel?

  You have a MacBook Air, right?

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:26Nilay Patel?

  Do you like, when you?

• 28:28Speaker 03

  Well, everybody had to think about it when the switch to Yosemite, I feel like that was like very, when it was very evident what a operating system is.

• 28:36Nilay Patel?

  Right, because everything, it looks different.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:38Nilay Patel?

  Right, this one's.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, there's a new font now too.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  It draws attention to it.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Called San Francisco.

• 28:42Nilay Patel?

  Well, this is my ongoing, Emily's making the worst face.

• 28:47Nilay Patel?

  This is my ongoing theory that the only time regular people know when technology is changing is when it looks different. Which is how they, which is how they sold the iPod. Every year the iPod would just look arbitrarily different. Right, it was like skinny, fat, thin, wide.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Nano or the mini.

• 29:01Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, the Nano was their best seller. Every year Steve Jobs was like, this year we've made it fatter. And then the next year be like, we screwed that up real bad. Thinner is the way to go. And like, everyone would buy a new iPod. Like, that was how, like, family members who, like, kinda didn't like you but knew they had to buy you a present, showed their affection for you.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:18Nilay Patel?

  So like an iPod Nano, it costs $150, here it is, please, please don't talk to me for a year.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:23Nilay Patel?

  WhatsApp doesn't exist, we can't bother each other. That was my youth. And now WhatsApp is like, that's how they show affection.

• 29:31Speaker 03

  The WhatsApp tie is interesting.

• 29:33Nilay Patel?

  Well, do you have, do you have like family WhatsApp groups? So I have like.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  I don't know. I only have one friend that I talk to on WhatsApp.

• 29:39Nilay Patel?

  So I, there's like a huge, I have a huge family WhatsApp, because it's international, actually.

• 29:44Speaker 03

  Right, right, yeah.

• 29:46Nilay Patel?

  And it's just like, it's just banging away all day.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Oh man.

• 29:50Nilay Patel?

  And I feel really guilty because I'm like, I don't.

• 29:53Nilay Patel?

  I just, can we get back to the place where we were just buying each other iPods?

• 29:57Speaker 02

  My, my family standardized on iMessage, which is another reason that I'm basically tied to it.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  Are you wearing a watch?

• 30:03Speaker 02

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna send my heartbeat to my mother right now.

• 30:06Nilay Patel?

  Hey, so it's been like, here it is. So Nicola, you did a bunch of watch coverage.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  Barbone, you're about to do a heartbeat.

• 30:09Nilay Patel?

  You gotta, just stop it.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  This is the second time I've seen one since then.

• 30:14Nilay Patel?

  Since all the coverage.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  So you didn't get one, you weren't convinced to get one?

• 30:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 30:18Nilay Patel?

  Have you seen anybody in the fashion world wearing one?

• 30:20Speaker 01

  No, but I did see someone, I saw a JetBlue employee wearing one.

• 30:26Nilay Patel?

  There you go.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  He worked at the desk at the airport.

• 30:30Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  In Burlington.

• 30:34Nilay Patel?

  Okay.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  I think that's where it was.

• 30:35Nilay Patel?

  We're, we're deep in the weeds here.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Well, it says stuff about who's buying it.

• 30:41Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  A JetBlue employee.

• 30:44Nilay Patel?

  Burlington, Wisconsin.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  No, Burlington, Vermont.

• 30:46Nilay Patel?

  Oh, wow.

• 30:47Speaker 02

  Thus ends our conversation of El Capitan.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  So the Apple Watch is over.

• 30:51Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I checked the Apple Watch.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, dead in the water.

• 30:55Nilay Patel?

  Wow.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  I mean, but we know this, this is a common known thing, no?

• 31:00Speaker 03

  I know this is a gut thing, and it's mostly a style thing, because anytime I see somebody wearing one, I'm like, that person, sorry, not, not including Dieter.

• 31:07Nilay Patel?

  I'm wearing one too, but mine is dead. This is how I've chosen to wear mine.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  This is a box.

• 31:11Speaker 03

  You just have a corpse on your wrist.

• 31:13Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, well, it's either dead, or I've left it in the pairing screen, which I refer to as Lagerfelding. Because Karl Lagerfeld has an Apple Watch, but he's never paired it with his phone, so every photo of it is just the pairing screen.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  That's so funny.

• 31:24Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's the best, so I just Lagerfeld. I Lagerfeld my watch. Yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  You guys are really making me feel bad about wearing a smartwatch right now.

• 31:33Nilay Patel?

  No, it's fine, you're great.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  That was worse than what I was gonna say.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  That was just like the most patronizing thing I've ever heard.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  Do we, do we stock poison in the kitchen?

• 31:51Speaker 02

  I gotta go do a thing.

• 31:52Nilay Patel?

  No, you're great.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  That's like the equivalent of like.

• 31:56Nilay Patel?

  Okay, so let me ask you, I'm just, we're moving on. Dieter, I love you and I apologize for our previous interaction. Do you upgrade your, do you upgrade your phone software every year? Do you buy a new phone every year?

• 32:05Speaker 01

  No.

• 32:06Nilay Patel?

  Okay, but do you upgrade your software every year?

• 32:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:09Nilay Patel?

  I feel like that is, that's like a.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  But I have a lot of friends that are terrible about it and it's so frustrating.

• 32:15Nilay Patel?

  Why?

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Cause they, then they get in that thing where like they haven't done it in years and then they try to do one thing and they can't do it. And then their computer needs it and then they, like the phone needs it and then it's this whole afternoon and their sister has to help them. And then they never have any information that they ever used to have before because they waited too long. I hate that.

• 32:33Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  And my friends know that I hate that.

• 32:35Nilay Patel?

  That's my parents.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it should be parents, shouldn't be 25 year old girls.

• 32:40Nilay Patel?

  Uh, one time it got so bad for my parents that to upgrade my mother's phone, just to go from like iOS four to five, I had to go and buy her a new iMac. Like, I don't know how I felt. She fell so far down the hole that I was like, to get this done, I'm gonna go and buy you a new computer.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  The worst is when like an iTunes update comes into play. It's just like, fuck, this is gonna be forever. Like, this is just.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Like, I thought I was leaving the house. I'm not leaving.

• 33:06Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, yeah. Oh, this happens. So you go home and you have to like fix everything at home. Is this a thing for you? This is.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Well, I've learned, I mean, I've learned enough now to, to always do like the maintenance updates, just to like keep it going, just so that you don't ever get to the point of like the many updates, like the, the domino effect updates where you have to like, oh, to get the phone to do the thing, I have to get the iTunes to do the thing, which means I have to ask the computer to do the thing, et cetera.

• 33:28Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, no, it's an endless chain. So the reason I ask is iOS nine came out and iOS nine, Dieter, would you, it's not like, is it a big one in your estimation?

• 33:36Speaker 02

  No.

• 33:37Nilay Patel?

  I feel like the first half of this Apple keynote was like really minor updates to Apple software. Like, everything is gonna get a little bit better. iOS nine is like a little bit, they changed the font. Again, the iPad can now do two apps at once. Like, that's all cool. But like the phone, I think the phone experience will remain substantially. Similar.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you can do split screen on the iPad. They're changing passbook to wallet. They've got transit directions and maps. So those are all things, but the big stuff with it, then they're like fixing bugs, which hopefully.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  Transit directions and maps?

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:07Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  That's tight. I give that a hype level, medium, high.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Medium, high. Like a six on the burner.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Like not room temperature.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  Would it make you switch back to Apple Maps instead of Google Maps?

• 34:19Speaker 01

  I mean, remains to be seen. So doubtful, but remains.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  They claim that their their transit directions are special because they know the size of subway stations and they can give you better walking directions because they know that like they're huge. You don't want to walk across all the subway stations.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  I mean, that's real. That would be cool.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:34Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  But the big thing is they've got a new search interface and they have a new like Siri is intelligence now. And so she can suggest stuff to you, kind of like Google now. And then like when you swipe over to the search thing, it like shows your recent friends and it shows you apps you might want to use. And it shows you stuff.

• 34:50Nilay Patel?

  Do you use Spotlight on your phone? Okay, so when you pull that down, it's supposed to like guess what you might be searching for.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  But now you now it's.

• 34:57Nilay Patel?

  Do you use Apple Mail on your phone?

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Just the regular mail that's on there?

• 35:00Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:01Nilay Patel?

  Okay, you're one of like the few in the crowd.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  I just switched.

• 35:05Nilay Patel?

  You just switched?

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Just.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  Everybody uses it.

• 35:07Nilay Patel?

  I think it's such a hot.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  I have Mail, Outlook and Gmail on my phone for different scenarios. Cause not one of them does all the things.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 35:15Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, now that's.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Which one do you go to though, for the most part to like look at your mail?

• 35:19Speaker 01

  If I can get to Gmail because I'm above ground, I'm not on the subway, I'll go there.

• 35:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:24Nilay Patel?

  And then otherwise use.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  But if I'm on the subway, Outlook's pretty good, but then sometimes I just gotta see it all.

• 35:29Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  So I gotta go classic.

• 35:32Nilay Patel?

  Oh, man. I can't, I that thing is, why'd you switch? Cause it's garbage.

• 35:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, because it's garbage and and because I needed alerts, I needed to just have an alert every time I got mail. Like in real time.

• 35:43Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  Can't do that.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  So I would, I would use mail if they gave me a single pane view of email threads.

• 35:48Nilay Patel?

  Right. So then the big thing, the so the features, the actual features are like Siri is going to get smarter and search adjusting stuff to you. But then the big thing that it kept on harping on over and over and over again was that all of this intelligence, all this like smart predictive AI stuff happens on your phone and not in the cloud like it does with Google. And that they're protecting your privacy.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:08Nilay Patel?

  And Apple basically straight up was like, Google is evil because they're stealing your privacy to sell you ads. And they were like, every single feature they announced, they put up another screen that was like, this isn't tied to your Apple ID. We don't know who you are. It's all smart. You're not the product. We're not advertising, like banging away at that theme. Uh, which if you like, look around, sort of like the Apple web.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 36:29Nilay Patel?

  The anti-Google feeling is strong.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  The slide that I wanted to bring up, that they brought up the similar slides for in a couple of different spots. And I can't find it right now. I gotta go hunt through our live blog.

• 36:39Nilay Patel?

  So their whole thing is that you have to use all their apps. Like you have to use their mail app because it has to download all of your mail and read it for you on the phone. So it can be smarter, which is crazy to me.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  Wait, what's it gonna do with reading my mail?

• 36:50Nilay Patel?

  It's gonna like, if somebody sends you like a, hey, let's meet at 3pm and like automatically make a little calendar invite for you.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can tap on it to get it.

• 36:57Speaker 03

  But that's horrifying if you have jobs like we do where you get a lot of invitations to things there's no way you're gonna go to.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Right. Well, they don't automat-, well, they show up as like gray boxes on your calendar.

• 37:05Nilay Patel?

  It's still hell. It's still complete hell.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  It's gonna be like gray, a gray box. It's gonna look like a, it's gonna look like a skyline.

• 37:11Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. No, my, I believe that like every Apple product right now reflects a crazy Apple meeting culture that I don't understand.

• 37:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:19Nilay Patel?

  Right. Like the Apple Watch, like it beeps at you every hour to stand up. And like, if you did that anywhere, anywhere, like in any responsible, like Dieter has to stand up now, uh, in any responsible situation, like that's crazy.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:32Nilay Patel?

  Sit down, Dieter.

• 37:35Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, I mean, I think, I think a lot of it, it assumes, I think that this is something that people, maybe people talk about this in other spheres that I'm just not aware of it. But like, I feel like so much of, so many innovations about like calendars and mail and how all this stuff works together and stuff, really assumes a very certain kind of, uh, non-working class lifestyle, like, you know, or you just work on the Apple campus or something like that.

• 38:01Nilay Patel?

  So I just think the idea of it, like, I bet in Apple, it's really rude to ask somebody for a meeting unless you're gonna take it. Right? That's like a corporate culture. Like you can arrange a set of people in such a way and say, these are expectations. Like if I send you an email that says, hey, does 3 o'clock work? Like, we're probably gonna have a meeting. But here, there's like 500 people who want my time at any minute of the day and they're asking me questions about. My time is free and just overloading my calendar with like

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Suggestions.

• 38:27Nilay Patel?

  With like questions with like, please, please press yes is like, that's terrifying to me.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  And then you have to hard know them.

• 38:34Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Decline, decline.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm a maybe man. I maybe.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I mean, maybe is definitely a move.

• 38:40Nilay Patel?

  I think we've all learned something about Dieter's passive aggressive calendar skills.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Well, you're from Minnesota, right?

• 38:45Nilay Patel?

  So, yeah, of course.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like a passive aggressive maybe decline.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Okay. So Apple's slide says that this proactive stuff is anonymous, not associated with an Apple ID, uses a randomized identifier, is not linked to any other Apple services, is not shared with third parties, and that you're in control. Now, part of me wants to be a super conspiracy theorist and talk about how randomized identifiers are bullshit, because it only takes like two or three data points for a company with any data mining capability all to identify you anyway. But we'll set that aside and trust that this actually is.

• 39:20Nilay Patel?

  Well, they really mean it. I mean, they are very like. Do you use iCloud?

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:26Nilay Patel?

  What do you use iCloud for?

• 39:28Speaker 01

  What do you mean? All the stuff?

• 39:30Nilay Patel?

  What stuff? Describe the stuff. What are the pieces of iCloud that touch your life every day?

• 39:34Speaker 01

  I mean, probably photos, right?

• 39:39Nilay Patel?

  No, it's not a good question.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Mail.

• 39:41Nilay Patel?

  Okay.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  I mean, don't you, can you, how can you not use it? You have to have it, right?

• 39:47Speaker 03

  I think I only use it. I only use it for music.

• 39:50Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Wait, maybe I don't use it. I don't know.

• 39:55Nilay Patel?

  So you've stumbled into like.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  iCloud, ladies and gentlemen.

• 39:58Nilay Patel?

  Casey had this great line. They had all these like scholarship winners on like onstage like high fiving. It was like overrun with teens. It was adorable. And Casey was like, to get here, the teens had to identify the difference between iCloud Photo Stream and iCloud Photo Library, because nobody knows the answer. Because it's this confusing thing that Apple has. It's like, your phone is constantly telling you that you need it.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I always have to log into stuff with it, no? My calendar.

• 40:23Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  You don't have to. You can.

• 40:26Nilay Patel?

  You work here, right?

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:27Nilay Patel?

  So you use Google Calendar?

• 40:29Speaker 01

  I got a personal calendar.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  It's our iCal calendar?

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:32Nilay Patel?

  Wow.

• 40:37Nilay Patel?

  You don't, you can't, you're listening to this. No, you're great. Nicola is blushing. You just do that. We hit iCloud.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know. I don't know.

• 40:45Nilay Patel?

  Just asking Nicola what she uses iCloud for has caused her a deep and abiding embarrassment. And I think that is just emblematic of the entire Apple situation right now.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  I hate being bad at being millennial.

• 40:56Speaker 03

  No, I, no, I don't, I think that that's good. Well, no, you should know what you put on, on, on the cloud and not. But like, I definitely default to know on everything. So I'm pretty sure that none of my photos are on the cloud. I'm pretty sure that nothing like my emails is on it. It's just my music because it's a purchase that I made through Apple and it's like, I'd like to just have that available.

• 41:16Nilay Patel?

  To have that backed up.

• 41:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:17Nilay Patel?

  Right. No, I'm just saying like, the, Apple going on and on about privacy is great. But if I asked you what Google services you used and Google services are as unified as any set of iCloud services, you would just know the answers. Like, what Google services do you use? Right. They're all branded. They're all like, we, everybody knows what exercise we're going through, right? Uh, and that's the difference. And they're better in many ways. Like, all of us in this room use Google Maps. We have to like go and get it because we know instinctively that it's better than Apple's map solution. Yep.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  When you have a friend from out of town visit and they don't have it.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  And they're like, how do I get, and I'm like, you're gonna look on that.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Or they open like Hop Stop.

• 41:57Nilay Patel?

  Ooh, that's rough. Oh, yeah. Wow. We're done. Nicola, like, all of this was in service.

• 42:04Nilay Patel?

  Just burning Hop Stop to the ground.

• 42:09Nilay Patel?

  Peace out, Hop Stop. Company's over. All right, I'm gonna read, um, oh wait. Here's my big question about iOS 9 and all this that we're talking about. Do you care about your privacy?

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Man, I got a pretty nihilistic view on it all.

• 42:25Nilay Patel?

  Okay.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  I just really.

• 42:26Nilay Patel?

  That's why you're here. Yeah. That's why you're in the fear fantasy seat.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  Wow, like how deep to go on this. I guess it's one of those like, I should be more, but like, what do I have to hide? And then also like, it's all there.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  So.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you're, you're, you're completely within the norms of 95% of people.

• 42:47Nilay Patel?

  Let me ask you a broader question. As an editor of Ract.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 42:50Nilay Patel?

  Do, do you think your audience cares about privacy issues and like computer security? Like, we cover it, and here's what I know. We cover it because we have like, it's part, it's just part of the fabric of what we cover. Right? And we do it. It doesn't like get us huge traffic, right? Unless it's like iCloud nude hacks.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  It mostly comes up for us, yeah, for celebrity nude stuff.

• 43:10Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Which, whatever. And then for any kind of like when a retailer has like a.

• 43:16Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Credit card.

• 43:17Nilay Patel?

  But do people like, did people stop shopping at Target after all their credit cards got stolen?

• 43:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 43:21Nilay Patel?

  Right? I mean, that's the thing, like, I saw the CEO of Target at the Code Conference a couple of weeks ago. And literally his like response to what are you doing about your terrible security practices? Was like, well, I'm the new CEO, so that wasn't my fault. And he's like, but Target's great. And he just like stepped on talking about Target. That's my question, like, Apple's just pounding away at privacy and how Google is like stealing your shit and selling you. And you're, you know, if you're not paying for the product, you are the product. That's like the line that they've chosen. Does that resonate with you? Do you think that resonates with your audience?

• 43:49Speaker 01

  I mean, I think that people care in the way that people are like, I want to buy a made in America. But how much does that cost? No, and like, then they just buy stuff made irresponsibly elsewhere. I feel like the same thing about privacy where people are like, I care so much about my privacy. But then like, oh, but I can't do this if I don't say yes. Okay, fine, fuck it, like.

• 44:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:10Nilay Patel?

  By the way, Google's motto used to be, don't be evil. Now it's, okay, fine, fuck it.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  It's like, you're using Hopstop?

• 44:18Nilay Patel?

  Poor Hopstop. All right, I'm gonna read this ad, and then we have to do music for a little bit. Because it's actually, I think, the most important thing.

• 44:24Nilay Patel?

  Look, here's the thing about podcasts, and I think we, through Nicholas' presence here today, we've come to realize this together. Podcasting is about telling great stories. Maybe with too many details about Burlington, Vermont. Maybe with too many details about the specific coffee shop that filled your coffee cup with. But podcasting fundamentally is about great stories. But telling great stories isn't just for podcasts. For businesses, connecting with your audience through content is a great way to drive traffic, brand loyalty, and return on investment. That's where Newscreed comes in. It's a full-service content marketing platform to help you manage your content efforts at speed and scale. Through Newscreed, you can license content from 5,000 leading publishers, including Forbes, The New York Times, and Men's Fitness. You'll also be able to create custom, original articles, infographics, photos, videos, and more. Newscreed maintains relationships with hundreds of award-winning journalists, photographers, and partners to help you accomplish all of

• 45:09Nilay Patel?

  your content marketing needs. You can manage your editorial calendars, you can manage your workflows, you can hit social publishing, you can measure everything. You can integrate with Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, Pinterest, not sure about HopStop. You can find everything you need to simplify and scale your marketing process across your organization. So for the first time ever, you can truly understand your audience and generate marketing ROI. Every single business wants this. 64% of marketers say that producing enough content is their biggest challenge. So don't be one of them. Don't be a buster. Visit newscreed.com/verge to learn. My companies like Pepsi, IBM, Visa, and Johnson & Johnson rely on them every day and request a free trial. That's N-E-W-S-C-R-E-D.com/verge.

• 45:48Nilay Patel?

  That was good.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  I stood up again during that.

• 45:50Nilay Patel?

  I know.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  I heard Men's Fitness, I heard Pinterest, Johnson & Johnson.

• 45:55Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, you got it. Good.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  And also, not enough content, which is...

• 46:00Nilay Patel?

  It's a real problem in America. You just sign up for the trial, okay?

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 46:04Nilay Patel?

  Just make me the 50 cents of that.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  All right, I heard we were gonna talk about Drake.

• 46:07Nilay Patel?

  We're gonna talk about Drake. So...

• 46:09Speaker 02

  I took so many pictures of Drake.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  I was at a club that Drake was supposed to be at this weekend, and he didn't show.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  Was it the after golf ball?

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, up and down.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  I'm so glad I didn't go to that then. Oh my god. Okay.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  But I did, I did get a contact high from Wiz Khalifa.

• 46:27Nilay Patel?

  There you go.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  So I still got my story.

• 46:29Speaker 03

  It's a souvenir.

• 46:30Nilay Patel?

  Tell me that story. Is that the whole story?

• 46:32Speaker 01

  I mean...

• 46:33Nilay Patel?

  How did your story about a JetBlue employee wearing an Apple Watch have more detail? Wiz Khalifa.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Wiz Khalifa appears with his crew and it was like pretty mellow situation. And he just like was smoking loud and I was just standing there and then all of a sudden I was like, oh, I'm a little high.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  From your weed, Wiz Khalifa.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  And it seemed good.

• 47:00Nilay Patel?

  Did Sam tell you his story that Deadmau5 invited him up to his like private party loft at whatever club he was at after golf ball?

• 47:06Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 47:07Nilay Patel?

  So he's like, he's like, boys are Deadmau5 now. And he's like, he's like, yeah, I was just sitting there like drinking beers.

• 47:12Speaker 03

  Problems with that.

• 47:12Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, but it's, it's like, of course. And Sam's like, it sounds like Deadmau5 was like, come, you gotta come back to my house this weekend. And he's like, I can't go to Canada with you, Deadmau5.

• 47:23Speaker 03

  Wait, why can't he go to Canada with Deadmau5?

• 47:25Nilay Patel?

  Cause he had to go ride a water slide in Kansas City.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  Sam's one of my favorite cartoons.

• 47:33Speaker 03

  I love that show.

• 47:34Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  I really love that show.

• 47:37Nilay Patel?

  I'm telling you, we got it just a show called Top Chef, which is Sam going to restaurants. It's the way, it's a wave of the future. That's, that's content.

• 47:45Speaker 03

  Wait, let's talk about Apple Music though.

• 47:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Do you want, do you want to go through it? I'll go through it. So there's the first part of the keynote. It's very tight. It's very granular, very nerdy.

• 47:57Nilay Patel?

  It's great. It's like a classic Apple developers cheered for open sourcing a software language, like really loudly cheered, right? Like very.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  Long applause, applause break.

• 48:07Nilay Patel?

  Which was great, like it warmed my heart, right? Like we're giving knowledge to the world and everyone's happy about it. And then there's like a dead stop and they're like, we're doing music. Jimmy Ivy.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was one more thing.

• 48:17Nilay Patel?

  One more thing.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  And then everything just went.

• 48:20Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. And then like, and then they rode that water slide all the way to the bottom of the Drake zone.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  Can you paint the picture? Like where is, what city is this in? What does this?

• 48:27Nilay Patel?

  We are in San Francisco in a giant conference hall, like a giant conference. There's like 5,000 people. There's 6,000 people.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  I mean, it's a very nice looking stage.

• 48:35Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's, and they build, they build a whole thing. It's the same place Google has their event. They literally, Google had their event there the week before. Right? So this is like a, it's just a known environment and that's, that's all I can describe it as.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  I'm gonna find some pictures of Drake that I took, so I can show you.

• 48:48Speaker 03

  Wait.

• 48:49Nilay Patel?

  It's an audio show.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  Drake is like a minimal part of it. I feel like we're overselling the Drake.

• 48:54Nilay Patel?

  I know.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  Except his jacket. His jacket was the most important thing that was.

• 48:58Nilay Patel?

  Let me just get through this whole chronology. So they bring out Jimmy Iovine, who founded Beats with Dr. Dre. Jimmy is the guy at Apple, like, running in charge.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  Formerly Interscope.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  I know who that is.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, if you've watched American Idol, you know that he's the guy who tells you that you have potential, but you haven't connected with the audience yet.

• 49:19Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, and he tells a story about, like, Springsteen. Like, those are, he's produced everybody, but his go-to stories are about Springsteen. Every time. He produced U2, right? So he's on stage, and he, I don't know how to describe Jimmy Iovine's character on stage.

• 49:35Speaker 03

  He's like Hollywood uncle, like.

• 49:38Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  He's like, well, somebody described him as like the drunk uncle of Apple, but he's not like drunk. He's just like that. He's got that voice, like, I've been in show business for so long. And, and this is how you might, like, we're doing something really, like, I don't know. He's always like yelling, he seems really mad, but he's, it's just because he's.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  That picture is painted well.

• 49:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  What would happen if I gave Jimmy Iovine a Werther's Original?

• 50:02Nilay Patel?

  So I love Jimmy. So I, in my heart, I think he's like a perfect character. But he's constantly overselling, like, what Beats music streaming is, because it's his job to, like, pitch it.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  But on the back end, he's actually a shark and, like, controls lots of things.

• 50:19Nilay Patel?

  So all this reporting Micah has been doing on music services for us, like, the stories are just there. Like, Jimmy's driving Apple, he's driving really hard bargains, he's trying to kill free streaming and Spotify. Like, he's, he's the guy, right? He's the CEO of, the former CEO of, like, Interscope. Like, he is one of the most powerful men in the music industry, who talks like.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  When people are like, that's what they want you to think, he's they.

• 50:40Nilay Patel?

  He's 100% they. But he's like, Dre and I were making headphones. Like, that's like. That's his, like, attitude all the time, right? So he comes out and just delivers this, like, rambling thing about. I don't know, music and the whole first half of Apple's thing was about how algorithms on your phone are gonna like improve your life.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:01Nilay Patel?

  Right, we're gonna read your email and like put up some shit for you, we're gonna like figure out your transit stuff and help you walk better. Your phone's gonna like hit you every hour to make you stand up because we're improving your life through computer software. And Jimmy's like, "Algorithms are garbage." Straight up.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  You want a DJ.

• 51:15Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, he's like, "You want a human person telling you what to listen to." He had this whole riff about how the most important song is not the song you're listening to, but the song that comes next. Because when you're at the gym, you want to stay pumped up.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:28Nilay Patel?

  And then he gave this incredible speech to Wall Street Journal about how you, if you were listening to Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel came on, that's because the computer doesn't know that you don't like Simon and Garfunkel. Like, crazy.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Oh, I know, if you say thumbs up to one Beyonce song, you're chained to Beyonce for the rest of that like playlist, radio, whatever it might be.

• 51:47Nilay Patel?

  Right, so they've sold you.

• 51:48Speaker 02

  What's the problem there?

• 51:49Nilay Patel?

  So then...

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Sometimes it's just the wrong bay at the wrong time.

• 51:53Nilay Patel?

  So then Jimmy leaves the stage and Eddie Q comes on and gives just a completely, I would say, just messy, messy bananas demo.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  He did some like incredibly awkward dad dancing in the middle of it.

• 52:04Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, he's like, "I love Latin music," and then just started, just broke it down. Which, the Latin music, I would say, was hype. Also, in this venue, this huge 6,000 person thing, they had tuned the speakers so that people speaking sounded awful, but music like fired kick drums into your chest like, like bullets. So like, they were like, right before they, what were they playing right before they started?

• 52:30Nilay Patel?

  I think they were playing a Drake song and it was just like, uh, no, no, it was Uptown Funk, that's what it was.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was Uptown Funk.

• 52:35Nilay Patel?

  The song they played right before the whole thing started was Uptown Funk. And it was like so loud that people were painfully dancing in reaction to it.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Like they had no choice.

• 52:44Nilay Patel?

  Like their bodies were just like molested by reaction.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  "I've had a never-ending wedding, I'm never gonna leave."

• 52:51Nilay Patel?

  It was amazing, so anyway, so the music sounds amazing, right? It's like super loud and super crisp and then Eddie's talking and it sounds really, it's like, I think it's just a balance, like you can pick one or the other. So he's like banging out all this music, the demos look bananas, they stole this entire screen from Beats. Where it's like circles and you have to like pick like it, what did Casey call it? It's like Diet Coke on a screen and just like endless red circles and you like hold them to tell them how much you like Pitbull.

• 53:18Speaker 03

  There used to be, there, man, I wish I could remember, there used to be this site like in 2002 or 2003, I remember going to it where you could find artists that way. It was like these little floating bubbles. You clicked on one and then it opened up to another web of other things you might like.

• 53:32Nilay Patel?

  Was it Last FM?

• 53:33Speaker 03

  No, no, this was ancient. Like I'm trying to even like, it was something before, you know, MySpace or anything like that.

• 53:40Nilay Patel?

  I was a Last FM devotee. That was where I lived.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Too embarrassing for me. I cannot tell people what I'm listening to.

• 53:46Nilay Patel?

  I mean, we can do that right now. Anyway, so they did that and then they were like, and then the third piece, so there's like the streaming music thing with, you know, like fuck algorithms is basically a thesis statement. Then there is Beats One, which is like Apple Radio and they kept on saying Beats One, but it's actually like Apple Radio is the name of the thing and Beats One is the flagship station.

• 54:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 54:11Nilay Patel?

  But so like confusing.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  But there's like, there's lots of weird nuance there because Beats One is free for everybody everywhere, 24/7. You guys, it's 24/7.

• 54:19Nilay Patel?

  Very confusing why Apple thinks other radio stations are not 24/7.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  And it's got Zayn, it's got DJs, but then the rest of it is basically just iTunes Radio rebranded.

• 54:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. Which I'm the only person, we've talked about this, I love me some iTunes Radio.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  If you buy the subscription, you don't have ads anymore on iTunes Radio.

• 54:37Speaker 03

  Oh, see, this is the thing, like this is everything, every, every part of my casual listening habits are now coming together into some, a new product I have to pay for.

• 54:47Nilay Patel?

  Anyway, so they did that. So that was the middle bit and then the last bit was Connect, which is basically a combination of like Instagram and Tumblr for artists on iTunes.

• 54:58Speaker 03

  Well, it's, it's title.

• 55:00Nilay Patel?

  It was title, right, but title doesn't let you post like song lyrics.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Right, but they could.

• 55:06Nilay Patel?

  They could. I mean, like, all these services are vaguely the same. Yeah.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  It's like, it's like, it's like Tumblr.

• 55:11Nilay Patel?

  So you can subscribe to, so that what they showed was Chris Cornell posting lyrics to a new song of his called Higher Truth, which to me is like, that is a music experience that I would like to unsubscribe from, just in general. Then they showed Alabama Shakes, being like, we're in the studio, right? Like, it's basically all the discovery that you do to be a super fan of an artist. Like, you'd follow them on Instagram, you'd follow them on Twitter.

• 55:35Speaker 03

  It's all crowds.

• 55:35Nilay Patel?

  You'd follow them on Tumblr, and it's all in one place.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  But it's not a full, it's like a half-social network. So like, I can't see who you follow, I don't think. Everything has like, hearts and comments and share counts, but only artists can post to it.

• 55:48Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 55:48Speaker 03

  Well, I feel like the most important element of that is not all of this ancillary, you know, fan material, but just like, if you like an artist, you will get, if they release a new song, you will get it first.

• 55:59Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 55:59Speaker 03

  Via that, if you subscribe to them, which Spotify has now also.

• 56:03Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 56:03Speaker 03

  You can follow an artist on it, it just doesn't have all that other, all the other doodahs.

• 56:07Nilay Patel?

  Right. And then the second half of that, and this is the title piece, is that you can be an unsigned artist, and if they have to vet you, it's not just a free-for-all.

• 56:15Speaker 03

  Right.

• 56:16Nilay Patel?

  If you get approved, you can be in connect, and then they'll be like, look at the huge platform that you have access to. And then to prove that artists could break by the access to a social platform, it was time for Drake.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  Well, no, first I picked like, a completely rando person that had no idea who was getting picked and promoted him.

• 56:31Nilay Patel?

  He's fine. Yeah, they're like, look at this rando, and they played a song, and it was like the saddest song in the world, and they're like, well, this really brought us down, but why don't we bring us back up with some Drake? And then Drake came out wearing his jacket.

• 56:42Speaker 03

  What was the jacket? It was a classic Mac logo letter jacket. It was so good. I wanted one.

• 56:49Nilay Patel?

  He looked like a five-year-old. I didn't understand. It was really big.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  It was large, yes.

• 56:54Nilay Patel?

  Um, although I saw, I will say, I like, I did some like Slack searching for like, keynote, Apple Verge, to see what people were saying about the live.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  Wait, you guys, hang on, the jacket has a rainbow Apple logo on it.

• 57:05Speaker 03

  That's what I said.

• 57:06Nilay Patel?

  Where have you been?

• 57:07Speaker 02

  I've been just...

• 57:08Speaker 03

  You were there. You were...

• 57:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was taking photos. The logo was literally the size of a pixel on my screen.

• 57:14Speaker 03

  Go in person.

• 57:15Nilay Patel?

  This is true, Dieter. Whenever I leave an event, I've said this on the show a thousand times. Whenever I leave an event, I have to.

• 57:21Speaker 03

  Go rewatch.

• 57:21Nilay Patel?

  I have to rewatch it because live logging completely, you're just not there.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  I rewatched half of it this morning.

• 57:26Nilay Patel?

  Anyway, so Drake is nervous. That's weird.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:31Nilay Patel?

  And he delivers this like crazy speech about like growing up in Toronto and just like, you know, it happened to me. And now with Apple Music, I hope it can happen to you. And it was just like, he was just nervous and weird. And he posted an Instagram afterwards being like, this is as nervous as I've ever been.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 57:47Nilay Patel?

  Talking to like 6,000 nerds wearing an Apple logo jacket. It was crazy. And then that was done. They talked about it a little bit more. And then like, and now Tim Cook, the juxtaposition here was wild. Tim Cook was like, and now an artist is going to break a new song. And the lights went out and then like red lasers fired from the ground and the weekend just like fired more bass into everybody's souls. And it was wild.

• 58:08Speaker 03

  And did a song called, I Can't Feel My Face.

• 58:12Nilay Patel?

  It was crazy.

• 58:13Speaker 03

  Which is perfect.

• 58:13Nilay Patel?

  It was perfect. And we just sat there. Like, we were sitting down, right? Like, that's a weird way to.

• 58:19Speaker 03

  That's, I do not envy artists who ever have to play that kind of setting, like a convention.

• 58:24Nilay Patel?

  Finally, the middle, the middle section like understood what they were supposed to do and they stood up and like began swaying.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:30Nilay Patel?

  But like, that's, it's a sex jam. Like, that's what that song is.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  And you're like, you're probably like white male, just like a room of white males in them.

• 58:37Speaker 03

  It's a drug and sex jam.

• 58:41Nilay Patel?

  It was great. And it sounded amazing, right? Like this thing I'm saying about the speakers is true. Like, it sounded so good. And he like completely sold it.

• 58:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:49Nilay Patel?

  God bless him. But it was just that, I've never seen it. The only artists that go off in those environments are like, John Mayer plays a blues jam on the acoustic guitar, right? And it's like, that's, that's what you sit down for, right?

• 59:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:02Nilay Patel?

  Like, U2 played at the Apple Watch event and it was just like, this is, even this doesn't work.

• 59:07Speaker 03

  Well, that feels like it's a million years ago now. I mean, even looking at the little promotional videos that they played, they had two different ones they played during it. I mean, they are really, and I think they're good too, especially, not the time lapse one, but the one about like, the Beats One Radio.

• 59:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  One, like, it made me think, oh, I'm gonna actually listen to this. Like, and you know, the, the, the people that they choose to be in it are diverse and young and doing things like working out and crying.

• 59:35Nilay Patel?

  All the times when you listen to the radio.

• 59:38Speaker 03

  Basically, the only two times you'll be listening.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty much, though.

• 59:43Speaker 03

  And it was, I mean, but it worked. And it was like, OK, they understand, like, this is not like, oh, hey, dads, you can listen to U2 on iTunes Radio or something. Like, it was, it felt way more relevant or competitive, I feel like, than other music stuff they'd done in the past.

• 59:59Nilay Patel?

  And now, I mean, their music stuff has been, so what do you, what do you use to listen to music?

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  Spotify.

• 1:00:04Nilay Patel?

  So every week on the show, this is a thing that, this is a responsibility you have. Sam and I argue about Spotify.

• 1:00:09Speaker 03

  Oh, cool.

• 1:00:12Nilay Patel?

  Because I use Spotify, but I feel like I'm in a bad relationship with Spotify. I think Spotify's interface is terrible. And I'm gonna move to Apple Music because it's just the next thing to move to. And this combine, this thing that they're doing, which I think is fascinating, where they're taking all of the local MP3s or AACs that you have in your library, and just sort of like mixing them into streaming. So there's no barrier between like the streaming service and the stuff you have. And you can just like add stuff to your collection. It feels like it's on your phone for real. That, I think that's really smart. That's all I really want it to do.

• 1:00:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:44Nilay Patel?

  And all this other stuff is like, they're struggling to differentiate themselves against Spotify, right?

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  It really sounds like with all these new streaming services, it's kind of like when you want to go buy something simple, like toothpaste or peanut butter, and you get to the aisle, and you're like, oh, no. Like, pick, ah.

• 1:01:00Speaker 03

  But this is the thing about Apple Music is that you've essentially already have it. It's like not this foreignness of something new, like title.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  You see Jif, and you're like, well, at least I know you.

• 1:01:11Nilay Patel?

  We got it on the peanut butter thing. Just saying.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  This is my brain. I can't change it for you in real life. Just because I'm on the verge, Cap.

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  Wait, so which peanut butter is?

• 1:01:20Nilay Patel?

  Finally, I've been burned in return. Return, burn, from the hype seat.

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  Quick, assign a peanut butter to each major, each major streaming, streaming service.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. It's title, all in one.

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  Is what?

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  Title almond butter?

• 1:01:35Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, title's just like, title's like off. It's like weird. It's too expensive.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  Spotify is.

• 1:01:40Nilay Patel?

  Whatever title is like, whatever Gwyneth Paltrow wants.

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  Google, Google Play Music is Peter Pan.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Seed butter is the new nut butter.

• 1:01:47Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  Spotify is Jif. No, Apple Music is Jif.

• 1:01:50Nilay Patel?

  No, Apple Music is 100% Skippy. It's just the, it's like the default.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  It's Skippy and then, and then Spotify is Jif.

• 1:01:57Speaker 03

  I feel like default is Jif.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  Jif is his default.

• 1:01:59Nilay Patel?

  Whoa.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, Jif is the default.

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no. The default is 100% Skippy.

• 1:02:04Speaker 03

  I don't know. You know what I'm waiting for? I'm waiting for the Laura scudders of streaming services.

• 1:02:09Nilay Patel?

  Audio is that annoying hippie peanut butter with the oil on top that you have to start and it never works?

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  I have that Smucker's Natural.

• 1:02:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:18Nilay Patel?

  That's so sad for everyone involved.

• 1:02:20Speaker 03

  Smucker's Natural is going to.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  That's what we have at the office, too.

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  That's going to a FISH concert.

• 1:02:25Nilay Patel?

  Oh, that's great. So it's, yeah, it's ultra commercial, but still kind of crunchy. That's Smucker's Natural. That's FISH. Yeah, I got it. Okay, that makes sense. All right, well.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Some of us don't want corn syrup in our peanut butter.

• 1:02:39Nilay Patel?

  Now that we've fallen down that hole.

• 1:02:41Speaker 03

  Wait, but so wait, I wanted to, but I do want to talk about, I don't know. I mean, I have a couple of things I want to talk about. I want to talk about radio.

• 1:02:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:48Speaker 03

  I want to talk about the radio.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  I want to talk about the tabs.

• 1:02:50Speaker 03

  The radio.

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  I want to talk about the buttons.

• 1:02:52Nilay Patel?

  Just hold on.

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  The concept of the radio, because I do think, so, so Brian, what do you think about kind of this disconnect between anti-algorithm that was within the music part of the keynote? And then kind of everything being automated for you in the first part when everything having to do with iOS and all that. And I do actually, well, I feel like you can't, I kind of thought about this for a long time. I feel like those are two separate discussions. I feel like when you're talking about art and when you're talking about leisure time and stuff, I actually like having curators and I really like somebody telling me what to listen to. If I don't know exactly what I want to listen to. And sometimes it's like, I want to listen to music. I don't want silence right now.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  I want both. I really want a smart algorithm to just figure out based on what I've listened to, what I want.

• 1:03:40Nilay Patel?

  There's this thing I've been thinking about a lot, which is when I was a kid and I listened to the radio. That's why I knew so much about artists.

• 1:03:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:46Nilay Patel?

  Right. They would just tell me like, here's a Nirvana single, like this one is like, I don't know, Courtney Love and Kurt Cobain just got into a fight and here's Heart-shaped box. Like, that was a piece of information that I only got from that experience that I would never get just from like a Spotify. That's a really bad example and I don't know why it's the first one came to mind, but there it is.

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  Also something you don't get from just doing something like connect where you, you, you pick like, I like that artist. I'm gonna learn everything about them. Like, you're gonna learn about a lot of people you don't like and some people you, I mean, it seems, it's idiotic to say this. I mean, this goes without saying, but like, that's something I think that's missing though, from a lot of the more customizable services that we have now. And not having something like the radio or, you know, just browsing through a record store and picking up something that you wouldn't find normally. Like finding something that's the equivalent of that, I think is a really important thing. And I think it's gonna, like, I, I think it's a good idea. Like, I feel like people who have, I don't know, maybe it's more of an LA thing. I feel like people who have like Sirius Radio or really into it. Like, I think that there's still like a very relevant.

• 1:04:45Nilay Patel?

  Car people.

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  Car people, yes. I mean, I listen to the radio all the time, but I don't anymore. But if, if, if I was able to stream it or something, like.

• 1:04:54Nilay Patel?

  No, when I moved from Chicago to New York, my, my radio consumption just plummeted. And in Chicago, I would flip between, what's gone now. But I would flip between Q101 and B96, which was the alternative station and the hip-hop station. And like, I'd just bounce back and forth.

• 1:05:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:07Nilay Patel?

  And then like, I'd be like, you know what? I'm gonna give this a shot. And I would like listen to XRT, which was the, like, the indie station, which had been completely subsumed by all of the other stations at this point.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:16Nilay Patel?

  So at one point, like, the XRT was like just straight up playing hit Pitbull during one summer. And I was like, I don't know, I don't know what happened to you. It's better now. But I don't listen to any of that stuff anymore.

• 1:05:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, and the thing is, and this is, this, I've talked about this on this podcast before, but iTunes Radio, which, are they just doing away with i now? Is i over?

• 1:05:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're replacing it with Apple and it makes me really mad because they think it's cool, like, put the little Apple logo next to the word.

• 1:05:41Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's really sad for everyone.

• 1:05:42Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, but iTunes Radio or what, what I guess will now be Beats Radio, or I'm confused the difference between Beats Run Radio and Apple Radio.

• 1:05:50Nilay Patel?

  Station on Apple Radio.

• 1:05:51Speaker 03

  Got it. Okay. So Apple Radio. So Apple Radio. Still iTunes Radio, the ease of buying a song that you hear and you like.

• 1:06:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  Or even just putting it on your wishlist and getting it later is so like it goes straight to my brain. Like I buy so, I make so many 99 cent purchases through that and like more than I probably do just buying whole albums from people. And so I think that that's actually really devious and like, but also convenient.

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  Well, if you pay for the 9.99, you just add your library.

• 1:06:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, yeah, if you're able to do that, then it's less, it's not putting on my wishlist. It's just like, no, I have that now.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. So the big question I have is what's the relationship between buying music and streaming music going to be? Because artists still try to play the game where you gotta buy it. You can't stream it on iTunes.

• 1:06:34Nilay Patel?

  Taylor Swift just want to put out her next album. You can only buy it on iTunes and we're just gonna buy it, but it's gonna be integrated with the rest of the streaming.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  So you'll be able to hear it on the radio and you want to add your library like, nope, this one you actually have to pay for.

• 1:06:44Speaker 03

  Or all of the bonus tracks will be only available streaming.

• 1:06:47Nilay Patel?

  Right. I mean, this gives, this gives the industry so many more options to like come at you for money. And that's great. That's actually, I think that's fine. I mean, part of Spotify's problems are so stupidly religious about not letting artists sell things on their platform. Like they would just do that and it'd be fine.

• 1:07:02Speaker 03

  Can I sidebar real quick?

• 1:07:04Nilay Patel?

  Yes.

• 1:07:04Speaker 03

  Cause you brought up Taylor Swift. This isn't about, this is meta. This is meta on Taylor Swift.

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  I've checked Taylor Swift.

• 1:07:11Speaker 03

  Okay. Okay. No, it's fine. That's fine. Everybody's entitled to their opinion. But I feel like I see people commenting on, on people talking about Taylor Swift on Virg cast all the time. Like, oh, you guys all love Taylor Swift. Like, why are you guys always talking about Taylor Swift? No, Taylor Swift is like a hammer. She's like, she is the easiest thing to go to if you want to talk about a top of their game, A-list pop star that multiple different demographics of people like. That's why we talk about Taylor Swift. It's not because we're obsessed with Taylor Swift, not all of us. That's all.

• 1:07:44Speaker 02

  That's totally true.

• 1:07:45Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I mean, I got into a little bit of a Twitter discussion with Peter Kafka, who's the wonderful media reporter at Recode. And I was like, because I wrote a piece last week where I was like, we're all locked into these services now. Like, you pick Apple Music, you're done. Like, you have to use where only where Apple decides Apple Music can be is where you can listen to music. And he's like, well, they're all the same, just like Switch. I'm like, no, because Taylor Swift will be on Apple Music and Jay-Z will be on Tidal. And he's like, well, the biggest artists in the world are the biggest exceptions. Because they get to drive purchases. And that, at some, at some point, we're gonna be in a world where you have to subscribe to three streaming services to get the three biggest artists in the world.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  It'll be like cable. It's crazy.

• 1:08:24Speaker 03

  Well, can you still just buy the album if it's not streamed? Like, okay, so say, so Jay-Z wouldn't be, you couldn't buy a Jay-Z album on iTunes, then?

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  We all go to CD stores in the future.

• 1:08:36Nilay Patel?

  If, if, if they want to, if Tidal gets enough power, they could do that, yeah.

• 1:08:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. That would suck, then. Because the thing that you could do then is you pick one and then you buy the albums from the people that you can't get on your streaming service, and that's fine.

• 1:08:51Nilay Patel?

  You buy the albums and then all of a sudden you discover that they are, DRM is back and they won't play in your iTunes. You gotta play them in the Tidal app.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  See, this, oh, this makes me so, like, it's...

• 1:09:01Nilay Patel?

  Or you don't pay Apple, or you don't want to pay for music, right? And that's the other choice, where you're not paying Apple 10 bucks a month.

• 1:09:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, but...

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Maybe we'll all be so distracted with our new headsets, virtual reality headsets.

• 1:09:12Speaker 03

  Music will be over.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  No, we're not even legal to listen to music.

• 1:09:15Nilay Patel?

  No, I mean, that's the thing, like, Apple Music isn't gonna be part of Oculus, right? Like, Apple isn't gonna build an app for the Oculus platform. Like, they're just not gonna, you know, it's, it's, this is why the fragmentation comes in. When you had CDs, MP3s, you could play that stuff anywhere.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  I would love to be virtually in a music video.

• 1:09:33Speaker 03

  Oh, can I?

• 1:09:34Nilay Patel?

  We can just start busting some jams right now and screen, screen you right.

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  Can we bring up one of the really small things that Jimmy Iovine showed off?

• 1:09:41Nilay Patel?

  Uh, we can't.

• 1:09:41Speaker 03

  Oh, wait, no, no, it was Eddie Q, actually. Now, the thing of Siri, having Siri integrated with Apple Music and being able to look up songs. That's kind of awesome. That's like Star Trek.

• 1:09:52Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, except you can't do songs and stuff. You can't be like, play me some slow jams.

• 1:09:56Speaker 03

  Oh, but I would say...

• 1:09:57Nilay Patel?

  I don't know that you ever want to be in a situation where you're commanding a computer to play you slow jams.

• 1:10:01Speaker 01

  Siri, slow jams, but not too weird.

• 1:10:03Nilay Patel?

  Gonna get it on. Not too weird.

• 1:10:09Nilay Patel?

  Siri, entertain this man standing by the door with a tray of champagne.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  I can't look at him in the eyes, it's gonna be over in eight minutes.

• 1:10:16Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Siri, pull up my "over in eight minutes", please.

• 1:10:19Nilay Patel?

  Eight-minute grind jams, please.

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  Eight minutes, don't make it weird.

• 1:10:23Nilay Patel?

  Well, that is clearly the end of our show.

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  I want to say one last thing. I hope connect fails, because the last thing I want is for app, like, of the five buttons at the bottom of it, there's "for you", which is Apple suggesting stuff to you. There's "what's new", which is Apple telling you new stuff to buy. There's "radio", which is Apple-owned music stations playing the music that you should listen to. There's "connect", which is Apple using presumably an algorithm, ooh, bad, to show you stuff that the artists decide to post because they've been approved. And then the very last tab, by the way, oh yeah, there's your music. And I hope connect, like, bombs, because I want, I would, I would like to have most people finding music outside of what Apple tells them to listen to. That's all.

• 1:11:05Nilay Patel?

  It's a beautiful dream, but it's not gonna happen.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 1:11:08Nilay Patel?

  Unless Emily finally breaks a band on The Verge, like I've been asking her to do for like a month and a half.

• 1:11:11Speaker 03

  You know what that requires? I was thinking about that. You know what that requires? Is people being able to be out late on weeknights. That's how you break a band.

• 1:11:22Nilay Patel?

  Interesting. Interesting. All right.

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  That was chill, I liked that.

• 1:11:28Nilay Patel?

  I think we all learned a little something about our conversations with you. And that will be the end of our show. Oh, I've got, you don't know what to do.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:11:37Nilay Patel?

  This is the place where I usually throw to Sam.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  I'll just, I'll just, I'll do it.

• 1:11:42Nilay Patel?

  So that's the Verge cast. There's a variety of ways to follow The Verge. You can follow @verge on Twitter, you can hit Snapchat where the real Verge. We've been doing a lot of cool Periscope stuff lately, so like, follow some Periscope. You can also follow all of us. Nicola, what's your Twitter handle?

• 1:11:56Speaker 03

  Nicola underscore Fumo.

• 1:11:58Nilay Patel?

  Okay. F U M O. Cool. Dieter is Backlon, I am reckless, Emily is Emily Yoshida. Emily has like a finely curated Twitter experience that I encourage you to check out.

• 1:12:09Speaker 03

  Me?

• 1:12:10Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  Emily also.

• 1:12:11Speaker 03

  I think mine's curated.

• 1:12:14Nilay Patel?

  You're great. Emily also has a hot new podcast.

• 1:12:17Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, listen to The Verge ESP. It's on iTunes. You can subscribe to it. You can also listen to it on SoundCloud. It is myself and science editor Liz Lopato talking about art and science and interviewing cool people in both areas. So, check it out. And we just had our second episode came out yesterday and it's every other week.

• 1:12:40Nilay Patel?

  Yep, and we also have What's Tech going on with Chris Plant. All of that is available at iTunes.com/The Verge. We'd also love to have you rate and review The Vergecast. Again, so close to 1,000 five-star reviews. I am dying... What's a good question we can ask the iTunes reviewers this week? I am dying to know what you think the new version of OS 10 should have been called instead of El Capitan. I think that's like a... We should just do that work for Apple at this point.

• 1:13:05Speaker 03

  I thought they were gonna stick with National Parks.

• 1:13:07Speaker 02

  They were supposed to stick with Parks in California.

• 1:13:09Nilay Patel?

  Well, so, Apple has this thing where they... This is like the refinement cycle. So, they did Lion and then they did Mountain Lion, which was like to clean up all the rough edges. And then they did Leopard and they did... So, now they did a park and then a thing in the park and then they'll probably do another park, I hope. Matt Honan from BuzzFeed really wanted it to be called the OS 10 Frisco, which would have been amazing. Anyway, that's it. That's our show. Please rate us. Please follow everybody on Twitter. Say hi and thank you. Say thank you to Nikla for being here. And I really want to thank Lynda.com for, you know, doing what they do, sponsoring the show, being a part of everything. Go to lynda.com/verge and sign up for a free trial and learn everything, customize your learning path. That is it. Rock and roll. Goodbye.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  Bye.