Thinking About a Career Change? You’ll Need Skill, Work – and Luck

What does it take to undertake a significant career change? How can you shift from a safe but unsatisfying job into one that you love? Successfully navigating a major career change requires some skill, some hard work, and a bit of luck. Morgan Housel is the author of the best-selling “Psychology of Money” (8 million copies sold worldwide), We discuss how he shifted his career into being a writer. Each week, “At the Money” discusses an important topic in money management. From portfolio construction to taxes and cutting down on fees, join Barry Ritholtz to learn the best ways to put your money to work. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  At KKR, we've spent 50 years understanding what matters to our clients and companies. From pioneering private equity to investing across credit, real assets, insurance and sports, KKR has built the experience to navigate complexity, the judgment to recognize opportunity, and the conviction to create lasting value. Because when people and institutions are counting on us, understanding what matters isn't just important, it's everything. KKR, understanding what matters. Visit kkr.com/whatmatters.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  This is the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. I'm Carol Muster. Getting hired at SpaceX requires exceptional ability and may include having Elon Musk review a candidate's resume. So writes Bloomberg Business Week's Lauren Grush. She reports that the company culture is defined by Musk and job candidates must understand that a commitment to SpaceX means adhering to this culture and exhibiting loyalty to Elon Musk. To get hired, candidates must demonstrate their achievements from past jobs, and hands-on experience matters more to recruiters than advanced degrees, with the company looking for people with raw, innate intelligence. A spokesperson for SpaceX didn't respond to a request for comment on its recruiting

• 1:13Speaker 01

  and hiring practices, but according to recruiters, advisors and those who've interviewed for jobs there, it's the space exploration dream that draws people to the company, and Musk invokes that dream regularly to remind workers why they're there. Prospective hires are told that the job will require stamina, including in job ads that candidates, quote, "must be willing to work extended hours and weekends as needed." One major perk for all that hard work? Employees' access to equity, either the right to buy shares or payment in the form of restricted stock units that vest over time. That's the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Get started at ChatGPT.com.

• 1:54Barry Ritholtz?

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• 2:29Speaker 03

  Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts, radio, news.

• 3:03Barry Ritholtz?

  How often have you thought about making a major change in your career? You're going to give up time, effort, money, education, but in the end, if it pays off, it could be very worthwhile to be true to yourself. On today's At the Money, let's bring in Morgan Housel. He is the author of The Psychology of Money, a book that sold over 7 million copies worldwide. His new book, The Art of Spending Money, arrives in October. So Morgan, I know you've had a bunch of jobs and even a bunch of careers. Ski patrol, valet, like, what was the original career plan with you?

• 3:44Speaker 04

  When I was, when I was a teenager, my first job was, well, my, my first job was a, was a host at Denny's. That was, that was a glorious job. And then, so I, I grew up as, as a ski racer. So then it was, it was a natural flow for me to get a job in the ski industry. I worked in a, in a, in a ski rental tech place for, for a while. And, uh, and then I, I got my first kind of quote unquote, real job was as a valet at a high-end hotel that was on a ski resort. So that was cool. But all throughout my kind of like, uh, late teenage college years, I, I, I really only thought I had one career path and that was I was going to be an investment banker. And then maybe later on that changed to I'm going to be a hedge fund manager. I didn't really know anything about either of those careers, but 19-year-old Morgan loved the idea that

• 4:29Speaker 04

  they appeared to make a lot of money and have a lot of power. And so that was appealing to me because that was all that I knew. And then haphazardly, not, not on purpose and kind of with a sense of shame, I stumbled into a job as a writer because I, I graduated college in 2008. Nobody was hiring. The economy's a mess. The only job I could find that was related to investing was as a blogger for The Motley Fool. I did not want to do it. I hated writing. I had no experience do, doing it. And, but I thought I would do it for six months until I stumbled into it. But then, um, I ended up loving it. It, it took a year, but it was like, I was like, oh, this is, this is pretty fun. I actually like doing this. And then over, you know, that was, uh, you know, 17 years ago. And over those 17 years, I've had several different transitions,

• 5:14Speaker 04

  doing different things, but they've all kind of been, had this common core of, I just like being an observer of how people think about money and investing. And I want to tell a good story about it. But, but there've been several different paths and transitions within that, within that core that I've gone down.

• 5:30Barry Ritholtz?

  A blogger for The Motley Fool. I wouldn't even call that a journalist. You're just a content producer at that point. How long did it take before you, this six month, I'm going to just put up with this until I find something better? What was the transition that led you to realize, hey, I got a knack for this. Maybe there's more to this than I realized?

• 5:51Speaker 04

  I think what was really good in, in hindsight, it Felt terrible at the time, but because the job market in 2008, nine and 10 was so bad, I didn't have the choice of giving up. There was no other job for me and I had a rent payment to make. So even in the first year or two that I didn't like writing at all, it was like, yeah, but that's what you're like, sorry pal, deal with it. That's what you're doing. There's no other jobs out there. That was really good in hindsight because it took me a couple of years to kind of find my stride a little bit, just like anybody in any job. The other thing about writing online or doing anything online is that if your work is bad, people will tell you in no uncertain terms how bad it is and how dumb you are and how stupid you are. That is painful in the moment, but it is such a powerful feedback loop

• 6:35Speaker 04

  that you're able to learn very quickly if you're paying attention to that criticism. And so every blog post that I wrote, I would put it out there and people would either say this sucks. And I would say, okay, let me try to learn from that or hey, this is really good. And let me try to learn from that. So the feedback mechanism was so powerful that after doing it for two years, just to make rent, it was kind of like, oh, this is actually fun. And, and there's some readers out there who seem to be enjoying what I'm putting out. And that's, so it was good that I had that forcing function of having to do it rather than having an exit ramp where I could have gone and done something else.

• 7:06Barry Ritholtz?

  So I'm curious about the transition from blogger, and I have been blogging for a hundred years, so I don't use it pejoratively, but to a more formal, either journalist or market commentator that was the next tier up. How did that happen?

• 7:27Speaker 04

  I've never considered myself a journalist. I don't think I ever will. I don't have sources.

• 7:31Barry Ritholtz?

  People will accuse us of being journals.

• 7:33Speaker 04

  Right. You know, we are, we are journaling, but I don't consider myself a capital J journalist. But what's true is that once I realized that my audience was growing and I realized who that audience was, there was a little bit, I struggle to say sense of duty. That, that sounds like it's too much, but it was a little bit more of, hey, people are going to read this and they're going to take it seriously. So make sure that it's right. Make sure that it is, is not dangerous advice for them. And so I look back at some of the things that I wrote early in my career. And it's not that it was, it was reckless, but I would just, I would just throw my thoughts on the table, regardless of what they were and throw people under the bus, which I tend not to anymore.

• 8:12Barry Ritholtz?

  And what is this, what is this throwing people under the bus you speak of?

• 8:18Speaker 04

  You've done it once or twice. And even when they deserve it, I think there's a, there's a principle, I forget who came up with this of like criticize broadly and praise individually. So it's fine to criticize an industry and say mortgage bankers in 2005 were reckless, if not criminal. But once you call them out by name, even if they deserve it, that's a tougher thing to do. It's usually the case that when you're criticizing somebody, at best, you have half the story. Sometimes you have 5% of the story. And but praising in the individual is great because you underestimate how much you can change somebody's life by praising them when they deserve it.

• 8:54Barry Ritholtz?

  Huh. Really, really insightful thought. So take us along the steps and along the aha moments where you realized, oh, this is something significant and I could build a professional career doing writing.

• 9:11Speaker 04

  It was interesting for me as a writer that I think might be a little bit unique is day one that I was writing for The Motley Fool. The very first blog post I ever wrote, I was getting paid a full-time salary. It was not, it was not exorbitant, but I was living off of it from day one. And 99% of bloggers go through years where they're not making a single cent and nobody's reading their work. And so I had made a profession out of it from day one. And there was really no ramp of, of let's see how I can make money from this. As the years went on, it could increase. And then I got into speaking and books and some other things.

• 9:43Barry Ritholtz?

  So what was next after Motley Fool?

• 9:45Speaker 04

  After Motley Fool, I joined the Collaborative Fund, which is a private equity firm.

• 9:48Barry Ritholtz?

  You've been there for how long now?

• 9:49Speaker 04

  Been there for nine, 10 years. Yeah. And my entire job there is, is writing. It's a home for my writing. And so it's all that I've ever done. But finding unique ways to make a living out of doing it. There's several different ways you could do it. You can be a full-time reporter for Reuters or for your local news or for the New York Times. That's one way to do it. You can do Substack. You can try ads. There's a million different ways to do it.

• 10:10Barry Ritholtz?

  So let's get a little technical. Let's talk about some blocking and tackling. What sort of tools did you develop? What sort of subroutines did you learn that helped you become a better writer?

• 10:23Speaker 04

  99% of being a good writer is being a good reader and 90% of your time as a writer is is reading. And, um, and so the huge majority of my day, and it's been like this for almost 20 years, is very casually sitting around in my sweatpants, reading, uh, reading books, reading blogs, reading reports, listening to podcasts. And it doesn't look like work, but that's the work of a writer, because you do that and you start putting the pieces together of, oh, I read this chapter in this book, and it reminded me of something I listened to in this podcast, which reminded me of the study that I read recently. I can tie all those together and come up with a really unique story myself that I can write about. And so that's, that is what writing is, is reading. And what writing is not, is forcing yourself at the keyboard, forcing the

• 11:07Speaker 04

  sentences out. That's when you get the worst writing. You should spend all of your time reading and thinking, and maybe 10% of your time actually writing.

• 11:15Barry Ritholtz?

  I love that. That's really, really insightful. Uh, Psychology of Money came out, was that 2020, 21?

• 11:22Speaker 04

  September 2020.

• 11:24Barry Ritholtz?

  All right. So 2020. So that's a, you know, a dozen years after you began, uh, at The Motley Fool. What was the transition like, writing a book from writing a bunch of really short blog posts?

• 11:38Speaker 04

  It was, it was interesting because when I started writing Psychology of Money, I was like, hey, this is a book. This is not a blog. I need to have, uh, 5,000 word chapters, and they all need to be cohesive and tell a singular narrative. And that's what I set out to write. And I've told the story before, but after about three months, maybe six months, I had three really bad chapters, none of which made it in the book, because I was trying to do something that I had no experience doing. And I had to look back and say, look, for the previous 12 years, I have a skill and a muscle of writing 1,000 word blog posts. I don't have a skill of writing 5,000 word chapters. It's just not something that I do. And so I just kinda, I threw everything

• 12:20Speaker 04

  out. And I said, look, I, I need to leverage whatever little strength that I have and say, I'm good at writing short form blogs that can kind of live on their own. They're not going to tie, tie into the next chapter. They're all going to be kind of like standalone. On their own. The publisher hated that, said it's not gonna work. People want a cohesive book. And I said, yeah, I'm sorry, but this is all that I can do, like, to deal with it. And I think it actually worked out well, because it's easy to underestimate how much people's attention spans have declined in the last 15 years. And so, the attention to read a 300-page nonfiction book that is a cohesive narrative from page one to page 300 is very diff- it's a big ass these days. But can you ask people to flip through short chapters that live on their own?

• 13:04Speaker 04

  If you don't like this chapter, just flip to the next. You can start there. That is a better ask. And everybody knows the nonfiction business book that could have been a blog post. It could have been a magazine article, but they stretched it into 300 pages. I think the only way that you could avoid that was by writing short standalone chapters that live on their own. Here's my point. Let me tell an interesting story, and then I'm gonna move on to the next one and not waste your time.

• 13:28Barry Ritholtz?

  So I find it hilarious, we share the same publisher for How Not to Invest, that you wrote the foreword to, and your book, The Psychology of Money. This is the first time I'm hearing that they weren't enthralled with your original concept.

• 13:45Barry Ritholtz?

  Have we crossed 8 million copies yet? You're like 7 million on the way to 8 million. I have a whole section in my book about, none of the professionals know what's gonna sell. Nobody wanted to do Star Wars. They all passed on Raiders. This E2 movie is dumb. We have another Spaceman movie. Like, on and on it goes. John Wick, Squid Games, all the reviews of The Beatles initially on Ed Sullivan were horrible. It's, I'm shocked to hear that the experts were like, meh, we're not really impressed with this concept.

• 14:18Speaker 04

  There's a Daniel Kahneman quote where he said, "The more outlier the success is, the more an element of luck played a role." Not that it's all luck, but he phrased it as, like, there's no exception to that rule. The more standard deviations it is as an outlier, the more luck there was, period, end of story. And I think that's true for books as well. It's true for every startup. Jeff Bezos tells a story about how much he struggled to raise $1 million. To sell one third of it, I think it was of Amazon in 1994. Could they, he had to take 100 calls to get to raise 100, to raise $1 million for Amazon. So it's, it, it always makes sense in hindsight. It never makes sense with foresight. I think that's true. And I think books are very much like a seed stage startup where even if you do everything right,

• 15:03Speaker 04

  it's probably not going to work. So I don't look, I, I don't look poorly at all or criticize the publishers who passed on a book.

• 15:11Barry Ritholtz?

  Huh. And our final question, what's your big takeaway about someone thinking about either exploring a career that wasn't their original intention? Or making a career shift towards something that they have a natural aptitude towards?

• 15:28Speaker 04

  One thing about careers is that so many of us, the careers that we have in our 30s, 40s and 50s are tied to our college major that we chose when we were 17 or 18. And when you frame how absolutely absurd that is, that you made a decision when you were 17 years old, that is now tying you into a career when you're 45, it's completely insane. And so the idea that if you're truly unhappy doing it, that you should, you should move on to something else. There's a great quote from Taleb where he says, if you're going to panic, panic early. And I think you could tie that to careers as well. If you really realize that this is not for you and you're unhappy, panic early, quit, move on, cut your losses, move on to something else rather than tying it out for the next 40 years of your career.

• 16:09Barry Ritholtz?

  So to wrap up, if you're thinking about a career change, if you have an aptitude towards a particular skill, if you want to just try something different, find a way to do that. See what you're capable of, see if you can make a go of it. But be aware, merely pursuing your bliss isn't going to get you anywhere. You have to develop some tools, some skills and some abilities in order to earn a living in your new career. I'm Barry Ritholtz. You're listening to Bloomberg's At the Money.

• 16:53Speaker 00

  At KKR, we've spent 50 years understanding what matters to our clients and companies. From pioneering private equity to investing across credit, real assets, insurance and sports, KKR has built the experience to navigate complexity, the judgment to recognize opportunity, and the conviction to create lasting value. Because when people and institutions are counting on us, understanding what matters isn't just important, it's everything. KKR, understanding what matters. Visit kkr.com/whatmatters.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  This is the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. I'm Carol Muster. Getting hired at SpaceX requires exceptional ability and may include having Elon Musk review a candidate's resume. So writes Bloomberg Business Week's Lauren Grush. She reports that the company culture is defined by Musk and job candidates must understand that a commitment to SpaceX means adhering to this culture and exhibiting loyalty to Elon Musk. To get hired, candidates must demonstrate their achievements from past jobs and hands-on experience matters more to recruiters than advanced degrees, with the company looking for people with raw, innate intelligence. A spokesperson for SpaceX didn't respond to a request for comment on its recruiting

• 18:07Speaker 01

  and hiring practices, but according to recruiters, advisors and those who've interviewed for jobs there, it's the space exploration dream that draws people to the company. And Musk invokes that dream regularly to remind workers why they're there. Prospective hires are told that the job will require stamina, including in job ads that candidates, quote, "must be willing to work extended hours and weekends as needed." One major perk for all that hard work? Employees' access to equity, either the right to buy shares or payment in the form of restricted stock units that vest over time. That's the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Get started at chatgpt.com.

• 18:48Speaker 05

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