Ricky Williams: Failed Drug Tests, NFL Exit & Life Now

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find Former NFL Running Back Ricky Williams opens up to Ryan, Channing and Fred on all the mystery surrounding his former NFL career as he went from one of the league's best running back's to a man living off the grid. Ricky tells the guys that playing in the league isn't for everyone and that it can be defined as crazy if you try to stay longer than your meant to be, even if your talent is at a high. Channing gets Ricky to open up about some specific moments and takes the chance to call him out on some of his questionable stances he took in the league as well as off the field. From failing drug tests to dressing in women's clothing to his free spirit approach to his personal life. The bond over the running back position between Fred and Ricky lead to talks about his incredible play on the field and the pace of him being one of the best rushers in the league and a hall of fame running back. Ryan poses the question, did the running back great leave the league far too soon before he really left his mark in the history books. The guys switch gears and talk about opportunities with HBCU's, despite going to a predominantly white college, Ricky has become a major advocate for working with the colleges. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Semaglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 0:30Channing Crowder?

  You got suspended in '05, my rookie year, at the end of the season.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:33Channing Crowder?

  But remember when you first got to the team and you came up and was like, you were like, "Hey, bro, I'mma probably home." You know what I'm saying? Like, when we sit out there in my garage and burn by my big old car, like, I was starstruck that whole day.

• 0:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:45Channing Crowder?

  And I don't know why you knew, you know what I'm saying?

• 0:49Speaker 02

  I just knew. I think I just knew.

• 1:14Ryan Clark?

  Welcome back to the Pivot. We got my dog Fred Taylor, should be a Hall of Famer. We have Channing Crowder, we just trying to get him to dress more. And look, we back at it. And when you out of moves, it's time for the Pivot. And nobody has ever pivoted the way that our guest Ricky Williams has. The different things he's been through.

• 1:29Channing Crowder?

  Another Hall of Famer.

• 1:32Ryan Clark?

  Absolutely.

• 1:32Channing Crowder?

  But I don't know what's gonna happen.

• 1:34Ryan Clark?

  I agree about that. I agree about that. Rick, man, what you been up to though, dawg? Like, you one of those dudes, you one of those dudes that feels like we gotta go find you in the mountains with alpacas.

• 1:43Speaker 02

  I'm not in the mountains or nothing, I'm just down the street in Manhattan Beach. But I'm always in the clouds, you know? And I don't mean smoking, I mean, I'm always have big ideas. And now that I've lived a little bit, I'm an entrepreneur. So I'm doing what I can to get my ideas out into the world.

• 1:57Ryan Clark?

  So what type of ideas, though? You say you entrepreneur, like, what type of ideas are you trying to get out to the world? Or like, what are these things?

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Like Heisman, Heisman, you know? And I tell people, it's not about a trophy, it's about getting high. And I feel like I can get away with saying that to people and they laugh, you know?

• 2:12Ryan Clark?

  I just laugh.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  And that's, that's it, that's part of it.

• 2:14Ryan Clark?

  I tried to hold it, though, because I didn't know if you thought it was funny or not.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  No, but that's part of the thing, is to be able to have a different kind of conversation about it. And I know, you know, back when I got in trouble, like, I wasn't trying to have a real conversation about it, but everything I've been through, I'm like... This is what's up now. And so just creating a safe place for people to be real and tell the truth about what they do, how they relax.

• 2:36Channing Crowder?

  And then Rick, I play with you, man. And it was, it was back when it was, you were the bad guy. Like, really, you were the bad guy.

• 2:44Ryan Clark?

  Was he ever the bad guy? Like, I feel like nobody ever looked at him as the bad guy. It was almost like he was just, he was so misunderstood that people just threw it to the side. Like, we're not gonna deal with it.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56Ryan Clark?

  Like, you think he was a bad guy?

• 2:57Speaker 02

  I guess was painted as the bad guy.

• 2:59Ryan Clark?

  The perception.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  You know how it is. We all, we all been in that situation on a team. And if, if something gets too complicated, coaches be like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna, I do not wanna deal with this.

• 3:07Ryan Clark?

  Right. And you can say the F word, cause that's all you wanted to say.

• 3:10Fred Taylor?

  But not only that, Rick, I, I think that's just the nature of the game.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:14Fred Taylor?

  You know, if you have one incident here and the media pick up on it, then this media outlet picks up on it and they pick up on it. Now, other teams paint this perception of you, you know, and they create this image. And everybody, for a while, they were saying, this man must be crazy.

• 3:29Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 3:30Fred Taylor?

  They thought you was crazy.

• 3:31Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 3:31Fred Taylor?

  Are you crazy?

• 3:32Speaker 02

  It depends how you define.

• 3:33Ryan Clark?

  Are we all crazy like a little bit though?

• 3:35Speaker 02

  But it depends how you define crazy, though. If I'm being real, I look at most people and I think they're crazy.

• 3:40Ryan Clark?

  As in people being different from you? Or just in the sense that you feel like everybody got a little something?

• 3:45Speaker 02

  My definition of crazy is, is, and it's a, it's a common definition of doing the same thing and expecting a, a different result.

• 3:52Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  And, and when people talk to me about playing, about playing in the league, I say, it's not for everyone. Cause there's a certain, like, level of excellence that's expected from us on a day in and day out basis. And I personally think anyone that doesn't live their life that way is crazy.

• 4:07Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  That's, that's what I mean. And so, again, I think all of us have to be crazy to do what we do, but that's the positive kind of crazy. If you think about all the great men that we celebrate in history, all of them, some people call them crazy.

• 4:19Channing Crowder?

  Who, who's the boy that cut his ear off? Cause I know you's smart.

• 4:21Ryan Clark?

  Van Gogh.

• 4:23Channing Crowder?

  Van Gogh cut his ear off?

• 4:24Ryan Clark?

  I'm also smart.

• 4:26Channing Crowder?

  Rick's smarter than you. I don't know.

• 4:28Ryan Clark?

  How is Rick smarter than me? How do you just assume that he's smarter than me? Like, that makes no sense.

• 4:34Channing Crowder?

  I can look at him.

• 4:34Ryan Clark?

  Like, I feel like, no. It's because, it's because you want Rick to be smarter than me.

• 4:39Channing Crowder?

  Huh?

• 4:40Ryan Clark?

  Like, you, you are tired of being the little brother on the show and you like, you know what? Every possible opportunity, I get to chop R C down, I'm a child. I'm 5'11" already, dawg. Y'all already bigger than me.

• 4:51Channing Crowder?

  You remember his private school, right? Or should I say, save it? Listen, they gave Freddie, but they gave him grades because he was good at football. Like, we know what happened.

• 4:59Ryan Clark?

  No, I was like truly an honor roll student.

• 5:01Channing Crowder?

  No, you weren't.

• 5:02Ryan Clark?

  But I was, though.

• 5:03Channing Crowder?

  This is the thing, that Rick understands the path. You don't understand the path is that you were a top safety, so they gave you grades.

• 5:10Ryan Clark?

  It's not why, though. I studied and I worked. Like, how come Ricky gets to come on this show, right? And get all this grace from you two? And then all of a sudden, you know Freddie thinks that private schools are a farce? And that nobody should go to private schools?

• 5:23Channing Crowder?

  I don't think that.

• 5:24Ryan Clark?

  And that private schools make you stupid, or whatever he thinks.

• 5:26Channing Crowder?

  Never.

• 5:26Ryan Clark?

  You think I'm soft? And then you ask Rick, you ask him a question that you thought he could answer because he was smart. I actually know the answer, but I'm dumb?

• 5:35Channing Crowder?

  I'll tell you this, Rick Starstruck me when he first got back in 05.

• 5:39Ryan Clark?

  Absolutely.

• 5:40Channing Crowder?

  Rick, like, Ricky, that was Ricky Williams. You remember when we started talking about, we was in there, what was it, Sammy Morris? Sammy, yeah. Because Sammy had three kids. Yeah. And we were in the locker room, and we started talking about who has the most kids.

• 5:53Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 5:53Channing Crowder?

  So, we're talking, and we're like, oh, Sammy got three. And I, at, at the time now, I was running, so I might have had some kids, but they haven't claimed me yet, so it's too late.

• 6:02Ryan Clark?

  So, you had kids like Spade's game, three in a possible?

• 6:04Channing Crowder?

  I have, I have a couple possible.

• 6:07Channing Crowder?

  I have one or two possible. But it was so funny, because Sammy was like, I got three. Another dude was like, I got, I got four. Another dude was like, I got three. We're like, Rick, how many you got? Rick was, at that time, I think you had four. Yeah. I was like, damn, Rick, you don't believe in condoms. You remember what your response was? I probably said, no. Rick said...

• 6:28Speaker 02

  If God wants to create a life, how am I gonna stop him from creating it?

• 6:32Ryan Clark?

  That's some smart stuff. I like that.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  And I looked and was like-

• 6:35Ryan Clark?

  Because it ain't your job, Rick.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  And I was like, because that was 05 when you first came back. And I was like, we in locker room, it's camp. When God wants to create a life, how can I stop, how can I stop God from creating that life? And I stopped believing in condoms. Because Ricky Williams just sold me, God-

• 6:55Ryan Clark?

  That God wants to create life.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  God can beat a condom. And I was like, well, if Rick says it, it might be okay. But that, that, that was a thing.

• 7:06Fred Taylor?

  That's a dangerous influence. This guy hung out around a lot of bars in Miami. Think about it. He has a few possibilities.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  We all been in the league, we all been around dangerous influence. That's, that's just-

• 7:17Ryan Clark?

  It's part of the locker room.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  That's just part of it.

• 7:19Ryan Clark?

  So Rick, you know, we, we kinda talk about where you are now. Channing's bringing up some stories of the past. But, but we're here because you're gonna host a show on signing day about HBCUs. I think it's extremely interesting. You have one of the greatest college football players of all time. A college football player that went to a predominantly white institution. That's hosting an HBCU signing day show. How does that even come about? Like, how does that discussion happen where it gets to this point?

• 7:47Speaker 02

  I think people have heard me talk about how passionate I am about football, and specifically college football. And even talking about my college football experience. And then at the University of Texas, they just changed the name of the field to the Campbell Williams Field. After Earl and myself. And to me, that whole process of how that went down was, was crazy.

• 8:04Ryan Clark?

  Can you kinda explain the process?

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, to me, I, I think it's a, it's a template for how we can start to change things, actually. The current players on the team says something. And one of the alumni who Earl and I knew had a lot of money, his dad's name was on the field. And he saw the kid saying something, and he started thinking, you know, what can I do? And he realized my dad is dead, but I know two people that are alive that have a voice, so he- Reached out to the school and wrote them this letter and it basically said, if you guys don't change this, I'm gonna tell the media that you guys-

• 8:33Ryan Clark?

  And is this a, a, a, a white man?

• 8:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:36Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  So this is the idea, like, the, the young people who, who are on the ground and willing, have the energy to speak up, they said something. And the people with money went to the, to the bureaucrats at the university and said, "Change this." And because he had money and had power, he got it changed. And it happened in less than, less than two months.

• 8:52Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  And then I was, I was back at the university for this first game this year, and they had a reunion for the first African-American players that played at Texas.

• 9:00Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Which wasn't until the mid-seventies. And, and we were all up in a suite, and I was curious, and I walked up to them and I said, "Did you guys know what you were getting into when you came to the university?"

• 9:11Ryan Clark?

  And, was it just because of the time they were in, Rick?

• 9:13Speaker 02

  Well, it was because of the time, and there weren't any African-American students-

• 9:18Ryan Clark?

  I got you.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  -in, in the Southwest Conference, really. In Texas, you know, Coach Royal wasn't having any players. But Coach Royal saw that it was going on around the country, that more African-American players were coming to, to these schools, and so he, he pushed the university to allow some players to come. And so I asked all these guys, and they said, "We knew exactly where we were stepping into." Exactly. And we knew that we were gonna set an example for people to come after us. And that really just, it just blew me away.

• 9:43Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:44Speaker 02

  And, and I started thinking about my college football experience a lot. And, and I went to Texas because I wanted to play big-time college football, I wanted to be on national television, and I wanted everyone to see me. And, looking back, it was great, I, I did a lot of wonderful things, but, but I think this time, that time of life in college is such a, is such a special time. I think if you're only focused on sports and not really engaged in the, in the growing up, becoming a man process-

• 10:10Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  -I think it's a, it's a big loss.

• 10:12Ryan Clark?

  Do you think that's harder for people that look like us to do at a predominantly white institution, as it, as opposed to HBCU around people who are like you, people who think like you-

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. I think we're fetishized when we go, when we go to that.

• 10:25Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  And I'm not speaking for all of us, I'm speaking for myself.

• 10:27Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  You know, we, we go, like, at least for me in school, I could go on, as a freshman, I could go out there on the field and I could compete-

• 10:34Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  -almost anybody. I went in the classroom, Texas was top ten in the class. I was a decent student, I was smart, but I spent so much time focusing on football, it was really difficult for me to compete in the classroom. And so I started to lose confidence in my intelligence, and it didn't really support me, and I wasn't around people that- Came from where I came from, understood where I was, who I was, and so.

• 10:55Ryan Clark?

  Do you think the people at Texas cared about how you progressed as a man? As opposed to the football player Ricky Williams that becomes one of the greatest?

• 11:05Speaker 02

  It's not even, I wasn't, I wasn't.

• 11:06Ryan Clark?

  I'm asking him a question, Channing.

• 11:07Channing Crowder?

  They're not worried about you as a human. You are RB1.

• 11:11Ryan Clark?

  That's what I'm trying to ask the question though.

• 11:13Channing Crowder?

  You are safety 1. Come on now, RC.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  I was 5 star, I was 5 star, sorry, I was 5 star.

• 11:17Channing Crowder?

  I was, I was, I was 4.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  I was, I was RB1, not a star.

• 11:21Ryan Clark?

  I was, I was, oh boy, you know I'm old, I came out in 97. We ain't had no dang stars.

• 11:26Channing Crowder?

  But why would they give us a hundred thousand dollar scholarship to make us a man?

• 11:33Ryan Clark?

  But Channing, also, I'm gonna ask you this question. Is it not, when, when you think of Florida, the, the position that you're in, the voice that you hold now, do you not think Florida is going to use that? Right? There, there's gonna be a young man that walks into Florida this year that says, I want to be a part of the media. I want to be a part of broadcasting, and people are gonna point to the Pivot, or the show you were on before this and say, look, look at Channing, right? Look at Channing Crowder. Channing Crowder does this. Fred Taylor does this for Jacksonville. Channing Crowder does this for Miami Dolphins. Like, they want you to succeed. So my question is, do they put what they need to put into us to allow us to do it?

• 12:10Speaker 02

  No, it's not even close. I mean, they, they want us to succeed on the football field.

• 12:13Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  But, and this is just what I noticed.

• 12:16Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Is, I don't think they really care so much if we succeed in life beyond that. No, I don't. And, and I think, obviously, there's coaches out there that, that truly care about, and really enjoy the process of helping young men become leaders.

• 12:32Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  And, you know, when I think about my passion in football, and I think if I ever got back into the game, that would be the only reason, is because it's this beautiful, especially college. It's this beautiful opportunity to help young men become leaders. Because to me, there is nothing like football as a tool to help, to help young men become leaders. Nothing like it.

• 12:50Channing Crowder?

  And how the hell did you go to Texas? From, you're from San Diego.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:54Channing Crowder?

  How the hell did you get to Texas, bro?

• 12:56Speaker 02

  I'll tell you why. I was looking for the biggest school where I could start as a freshman. That, where I, where I went on my recruiting trip and it felt, and it felt most like family.

• 13:04Ryan Clark?

  Did it feel like that when you went on your recruiter?

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Amongst the team, because when I went on my recruiting ship, it was during, it was during bowl practice and it was, and it was, um, everyone was off campus. So I was just around the team, practicing for the bowl. So it felt, it felt like family. And I'm the kind of person where, where I'm an adventurer, so I don't mind adventuring into new territory. But it was culture shock coming from San Diego to the south, to the south. And then I went to New Orleans and that was a lot.

• 13:30Ryan Clark?

  That was a whole.

• 13:30Channing Crowder?

  Oh, we don't do that today.

• 13:33Channing Crowder?

  Let's go chronologically. What, what was your, I don't know because you're old as hell. Fred's 72.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're old.

• 13:40Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, y'all are old, old. But was it five visits? Freddie, was it five visits? Y'all had five visits? I don't know. Y'all might have 17. I don't know what y'all.

• 13:50Channing Crowder?

  They just visit whoever they want to visit. Who was your five? And did you ever even look at an HBCU? Who was your?

• 13:56Speaker 02

  I wasn't even recruit, I wasn't even recruited by one.

• 13:59Ryan Clark?

  Not one letter?

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Not one.

• 14:00Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  And it's, it's unfortunate. Like, I look back and, and if there was one thing that I, that I, I could, I would have done different, and I'm not even just saying this, is I would have taken a strong look. Knowing what I know now, especially the quality of the experience, like Texas prepared me to be a good college football player. It did not prepare me for life.

• 14:20Ryan Clark?

  That's real.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Not even, it almost anti-prepared me for life.

• 14:23Ryan Clark?

  Why, why do you say it almost anti-prepared you for life as opposed to what an HBCU could provide them?

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Well, I'll say this, prepared me to be successful in life, because I think so much about how we learn is what we see.

• 14:36Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 14:36Speaker 02

  Is what we, what we see around us. And then at Texas, what I saw around me was, you know, was a, a big difference in who had all the intellectual power and who had all the financial power and who was be, who was considered successful. And I think being around other people that look like me who were successful, doing things that I would love to do or I wanted to see myself doing, but at Texas, I didn't see very many people that looked like me doing things that, that I was passionate about doing.

• 15:02Ryan Clark?

  And so like you think if you were in, in this age, the age where Hugh Jackson is at Grambling State, the age where Eddie George is at Tennessee State, uh, primetime is at Jackson State, where these schools now believe they can get the Ricky Williamses of the world, would you consider, do you think in this time you consider?

• 15:19Speaker 02

  Consider, it would be no, it would be no question.

• 15:21Channing Crowder?

  But no, but fellas, I'm the same way, Rick, where I remember talking to Jackson State's coach. When I was coming out and he told me, he was like, you're, you're too big.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  For what we're trying to do.

• 15:33Ryan Clark?

  Right, so he's like, I can't even recruit you because of who you are.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  I had Florida, Georgia, USC, Michigan, and he was like, we're not gonna waste our finances recruiting you because you have a top, you have top coaches.

• 15:46Fred Taylor?

  Coming from out west.

• 15:47Ryan Clark?

  San Diego for sure.

• 15:48Fred Taylor?

  You know, definitely San Diego, you're talking about historically black colleges, they're in the south. You know, a lot of guys, especially big players, they're not gonna get a look to pull them in. They, one, they already lack resources.

• 15:59Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 15:59Fred Taylor?

  We're talking traveling, and back in those days, think about it, they can, they can pop on a, a, a rival's, you know, a tape or a YouTube and see highlights of these players. Hell, even Instagram, it's just floating around the internet of guys from, you know, the west coast. They can probably tap into that, but when we came out, they lacked a lot of funding, a lot of resources. So, traveling out there was a waste. I got one letter, my first HBCU letter, came from Tuskegee.

• 16:28Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 16:29Fred Taylor?

  Tuskegee.

• 16:29Ryan Clark?

  Which is actually a great school, great school.

• 16:35Fred Taylor?

  Frisbee, never seen it again. I just wasn't having it.

• 16:39Ryan Clark?

  But Fred, what was your mindset at that, I wanna go play in front of 80,000, or they can't get me to the league, or the education there isn't good? Like, what's the mindset to be like, I'm cool on that?

• 16:49Fred Taylor?

  I think you grow up watching, you know, the big schools. You know, you grow up, this is what's on TV, you don't see HBCU games on television.

• 16:56Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 16:56Fred Taylor?

  You know, on a Saturday growing up, I never saw that, but I was excited because that was my first official college letter.

• 17:03Ryan Clark?

  Oh wow, okay.

• 17:03Fred Taylor?

  Was from an HBCU, I don't mention it a lot.

• 17:06Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 17:06Fred Taylor?

  You know, it's so far under the radar, but that was my first letter. Now, I would have never made that decision to go there.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  The other thing, especially for someone like me, growing up in, in California, is, is usually out west, the black people are kinda together, and it's more homogeneous. Everyone kinda has to be the same because we stick together. And, and everyone I've talked to that, that had a different experience.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  At a historically black college and university, said what blew their mind was they got there and they saw there was all different types of black people.

• 17:38Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  And he said like somewhere where I would have gone there and I wouldn't have stuck out because I would have found.

• 17:43Ryan Clark?

  So you feel like that the black people that were around you in San Diego, you guys were kind of the same or you weren't?

• 17:52Speaker 02

  Well, we had to kind of be the same.

• 17:53Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Because it was only so much of us.

• 17:56Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  It was kind of us against them, so we kind of had to all be the same. Right? Like I noticed when I went to Atlanta, okay? I saw all kinds of different kinds of black people.

• 18:04Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Like punk rock, like even thinking about different kinds of music. Where I grew up in, like everyone listens to the same music.

• 18:11Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  And if you kind of went outside, you know, people will try to, you know, pull you back in. So I just think the diversity with inside of our culture, I think was lost. And I think is lost even in these big universities.

• 18:23Channing Crowder?

  Rick, Atlanta's something different though.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:28Ryan Clark?

  Ay, bro, why you gotta turn every show into that, man? Sit back. Every show, bruh.

• 18:34Channing Crowder?

  When they bring it up, I gotta let them know that Atlanta is different.

• 18:36Ryan Clark?

  Every show is like, oh, look at Channing. I go outside the box.

• 18:40Channing Crowder?

  It's just Channing because you.

• 18:41Ryan Clark?

  I color outside the lines.

• 18:42Channing Crowder?

  No, and you coloring the lines and you sit in your house and you play Sudoku. Me and Ricky experienced life.

• 18:48Ryan Clark?

  I love Sudoku. It's a great game.

• 18:50Channing Crowder?

  Me and Rick experienced life and we enjoyed Atlanta. You don't go to Atlanta. I don't even, you know.

• 18:55Ryan Clark?

  I've gone to Atlanta many times.

• 18:57Channing Crowder?

  You'll be at Lennox. You won't be at Phiff's.

• 18:59Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Rick, so you kind of, you talk about the homogeneous, I guess, atmosphere of being in San Diego. Like what were you like growing up? And did you feel the need to adapt to how the people were around you or were you honestly like that?

• 19:12Speaker 02

  I mean, the homogeneous nature, I think it exists just in communities where you're a minority. The minority has to stick together. So I think even on a football team.

• 19:20Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  Right? Or at a big university, predominantly white university, it's still kind of all the black people hang out together. A big part of it was I grew up and my mom worked at night and my parents separated when I was young.

• 19:31Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  So I really didn't have anyone telling me what to do. And so. In a positive sense, I had to figure things out for myself. But in a negative sense, I had to figure things out for myself.

• 19:40Ryan Clark?

  Right. Catch 22.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 19:42Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  But, but I'm glad I, I'm glad I did because I learned how to think for myself. Mm-hmm. And I think like all kids, we trying to find a place to fit. And I used to get made fun of because I was kind of nerdy. And, and they would call me an Oreo cookie and say that I was black on the outside.

• 19:57Ryan Clark?

  In San Diego?

• 19:57Speaker 02

  And white, white on the inside. This is what I'm saying. Yeah. I remember when I was in middle school. I'm when I was out, I was outside in the playground and two dudes came up to me and they just called me a punk. And they just like, beat me up and like pushed me on the ground.

• 20:14Ryan Clark?

  This one of the greatest running backs ever. They like, they just beat me up and pushed me on the ground.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  Just for no reason.

• 20:19Channing Crowder?

  Why you, why you running around on a treadmill?

• 20:21Speaker 02

  I learned, I learned, I mean, I, because I didn't understand what was going on. I didn't like, in my, I just, in my mind, I didn't understand why dudes, when I wasn't even doing anything, would just walk up to me for no reason and just start, and just start beating. And then I, and then I realized, okay, I can't be a punk no more. And then I started playing, playing sports. Mm-hmm. And that's when I, it was my way to prove that I was black. Because I could, I could run you over, I could run faster than you.

• 20:45Channing Crowder?

  You had to prove your blackness through sports?

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:48Ryan Clark?

  You know, you've heard so many people, I've heard kids say, this is all I got, coach. Right? I'm coaching kids, this is all I got. This is the only way to not be there. Or to actually have parents say, look, I can't afford for school. This is the only way you don't have to stay here. Do you think a lot of, of, of what we deal with is proving ourselves through sports in many different aspects?

• 21:08Channing Crowder?

  I think it is. And honestly, it's crazy because my father was, he played for the Dolphins and Buccaneers. My dad played ball. So like, once I started playing and like, I had success.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:19Channing Crowder?

  This is my way, and it's, it's so funny. And I, all four of y'all have said this. My way out.

• 21:25Fred Taylor?

  Four. One, two, three.

• 21:27Ryan Clark?

  Freddie, he can't count either.

• 21:28Fred Taylor?

  He said all four of y'all.

• 21:30Ryan Clark?

  Freddie, right.

• 21:30Channing Crowder?

  My bad, Fred.

• 21:31Ryan Clark?

  Freddie, count.

• 21:32Fred Taylor?

  I'm right.

• 21:32Ryan Clark?

  My dog, Fred's early, son.

• 21:34Channing Crowder?

  Fred, I'm right.

• 21:37Fred Taylor?

  Don't be slipping, man.

• 21:38Channing Crowder?

  We got him an abacus for his birthday.

• 21:40Ryan Clark?

  We gonna do that, though. No, we ain't getting one of them joints where the balls, balls on the outside. You know what I'm talking about? Where you get like, do that.

• 21:47Channing Crowder?

  You talking about that? This thing, well, it'll take Fred 14 hours to figure out what's going on. My bad, Fred. But we heard that this is my way out. This is my way out. And why couldn't my way out be an astronaut? Why couldn't my way out be?

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Because it wasn't supported by the community. When I was in school and I got an A, like, my mom would say, okay, but no one was saying, like, let's push you. When I went outside and I was the first one around the field, everybody was like, that's where they pushed me. And so I got more positive reinforcement for those things than I did for my intelligence.

• 22:19Channing Crowder?

  And in that point, the HBCU stuff. You're a part of it. You're about to host, you're hosting the HBCU signing show.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 22:27Channing Crowder?

  Would you want to go and coach or mentor?

• 22:30Speaker 02

  It's the only way, it's the only place I would go and coach.

• 22:32Channing Crowder?

  You wouldn't, you wouldn't coach at Texas?

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Just because of my history, I like, I know that would be a lot for a university to have to bring me, to bring me in. Because if they bring me as a head coach, I'm not going to stop smoking. And I'm not going to tell my players not to smoke. So, so they know that if they bring me in, they're like, I'm, I'm going to be real.

• 22:50Ryan Clark?

  But Rick, so like if your players, though, in a situation where if your players have to be drug tested in order to play, can you not have the conversation of, hey, guys, I'm not saying smoking is wrong, but as far as this structure is put together?

• 23:06Speaker 02

  That's exactly what I would say.

• 23:08Ryan Clark?

  Right, and that's okay, though. That's what a coach is supposed to do.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Exactly what I would say.

• 23:11Channing Crowder?

  Didn't we have that conversation?

• 23:13Speaker 02

  We did.

• 23:14Channing Crowder?

  We used to, and I'll break it to them, the CBA, they tell you when you're getting tested. It was April 9th or April 7th.

• 23:24Ryan Clark?

  And if you ain't smart enough to stop smoking from there, you're a real dummy.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  It was 4/20, which is ironic.

• 23:30Channing Crowder?

  So, it was always a month before, and all the dudes that smoked on the team would text each other. Hey, bro, tighten up, or just little stuff. And you would educate the young players, and I'll tell them, I don't know if Big Truck wants to hear this, but I'll tell them, Keith Trailer, Keith Trailer explained to me, he was like, bro, you got to stop smoking now. They're going to test you in the next three months, and then you can smoke the next nine months.

• 23:54Ryan Clark?

  And so like, as, as a non-smoker, that seems really easy to me. Like, I got an opportunity, I was on the executive board, right? And like, when me and AB actually got into it was because I was asked on TV if I had teammates that smoked. And I was like, I do, and I think they're great people. I said, and so because of that, I believe they should lower the limits. Of testing when they smoke. I was like, cause these, they don't do anything. And I was like, and it helps a lot of people. But when you, when you look at it, I always said, when a guy fails a drug test, that's a decision-making problem, not a drug problem.

• 24:27Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 24:28Ryan Clark?

  Right? If you smell a drug test, if you fail a drug test for weed, you, you, you just didn't make the decision to stop early enough because they tell us when it is.

• 24:35Fred Taylor?

  I think you put that in the hat with if you go out drink, drinking and driving.

• 24:39Ryan Clark?

  It's a bad decision.

• 24:40Fred Taylor?

  You have, you have an opportunity, you know, to call a car, to get a car, get a homeboy or somebody to drive.

• 24:45Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 24:45Fred Taylor?

  It is a bad decision, but guys get lazy too.

• 24:48Ryan Clark?

  What happened with you, Doug?

• 24:49Speaker 02

  So, yes.

• 24:52Ryan Clark?

  That was what you was trying to get to anyway.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  It's just what Chad is saying is what he said was the, the vets, when the young guys come in, the vets let them know what the deal is, okay? So I was playing drafted by the Saints, everybody knows. And in New Orleans, the drug test was always training camp. First day of training camp, you get that little, that little paper underneath your door, 6:30 a.m., okay? I get traded to Miami, nobody told me, right? Test day is in the off-season. And so I got to the facility one day and they said, it's that, it's that day.

• 25:28Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  All right.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  I got a story I almost don't want to tell, but I got a story, but.

• 26:03Ryan Clark?

  Whenever do you have a story that you don't want to tell?

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Were you ever surprised when you failed a drug test? Is that kind of surprise where you're not surprised that you failed, you're surprised you got caught? And that's, that's where it hit. I'm not a rule follower, I'm not. And I'm the kind of person where if someone tells me I can't do something, not that it makes me want to do it, but I'm kind of like, wait a minute, wait a minute. And I agree that it is a decision, it is a decision-making process. And I think sometimes we're torn. Sometimes inside what we want and outside what we want are different. And I think that's when we get stuck. And I think so much of me on the outside, obviously, could appreciate the perks of being a professional football player. But I think so much of me on the inside hated it.

• 26:43Ryan Clark?

  What'd you hate about it?

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Well, I hated that I couldn't be, at least for me, I didn't feel like I could be myself. There were so many expectations about how I was supposed to act. And it was my maturity that I had to realize that I have to stop caring what people think and just be myself.

• 26:56Ryan Clark?

  I'm from the end though, man, and, you know, like, I remember the excitement and also the criticism of when Mike Ditka drafted you. He trades away the entire draft for Ricky Williams, which at the time is crazy, but people weren't also considering how great of a college football player you were. Like, I remember the whole dress thing. How did that come about? And how, when you look back at it, do you feel about that situation?

• 27:26Speaker 02

  It's one of those things where my experience of it was I thought it was funny.

• 27:30Ryan Clark?

  No, I thought it was super funny.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  I thought it was funny, but when I did it and I saw everyone else's, like, reaction to it, that's what I had doubts about, where I had regrets. Wasn't doing it, it was I was shocked that people would respond that way. But Dan Lebatard and I were close friends. We're still our close friends. And he wrote a piece about me before my rookie season. And he said, "We're trying to do something to depict that you and Ditka are married." You know, because he spent all those picks and pretty much, if it doesn't go well, you know, it's gonna get ugly. And so we went back and forth for a couple of months on different ideas. And one day they said, "What about a wedding dress?" And I just started laughing because I thought it was funny. And then I was like, "Sure." And then when we got to the shoot, you know, I had to put the dress on, and that's when I started to think, like...

• 28:15Ryan Clark?

  It's a damn dress.

• 28:16Channing Crowder?

  Did you think about it when you put the titties in?

• 28:18Speaker 02

  I didn't have to put titties in.

• 28:20Channing Crowder?

  Rick, I saw the picture, Rick.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  There was no titties in.

• 28:23Channing Crowder?

  Rick, you had titties.

• 28:24Ryan Clark?

  Hey, that boy had pecs.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  I was doing push-ups.

• 28:27Ryan Clark?

  You have never lifted before, so you don't know what pecs look like. You don't have no muscles.

• 28:31Channing Crowder?

  I've seen the picture. It was some stuff underneath that. It was no titties in. That was you.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  I'm just that guy that's in it for the experience.

• 28:40Ryan Clark?

  So what was the experience like?

• 28:41Speaker 02

  It was interesting. It was interesting.

• 28:43Ryan Clark?

  Did you learn anything from it?

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Um, I did. I, I, I think I had an appreciation for what it feels like to be discriminated against for your sexual preference. You know, just, just that idea of putting yourself in other people's shoes and how, even though I would, you know, I'm a football player, most masculine football player, that because I put on a dress for two hours, it, all of this talk starts and just how that like, just how that feels.

• 29:07Channing Crowder?

  Do you think, do you think people questioned your sexual preference because of that?

• 29:10Speaker 02

  Well, I think they were, they were questioning my sexual preference before that, but I just think that just gave, you know, it just added to the questions.

• 29:16Channing Crowder?

  And Rick, you, I, we hung out, you, you, you like women.

• 29:24Channing Crowder?

  Cause Rick done messed me up before. They was, I was sitting there, we sitting there at prime 112 and they walking in looking at Ricky and I'm like, damn, you was my girl. Rick ain't worried about you. He a superstar. Yeah, he a superstar. He a superstar. But, but from, from that whole situation, Rick, from that whole thing with the dress and all that stuff, did you move forward like to a point where you have to see that I'm bigger than? Cause my, my understanding, like even talking to you, knowing you 15 years ago, that I don't think you knew what the fame was of Ricky Williams. I don't think you knew Heisman Ricky Williams. I don't think you knew, like even when you got back to the team in 05, after the suspension and you came, like,

• 30:08Channing Crowder?

  I was starstruck by you. Bro, when you walking through the locker room, like I would even come in the shower and I would get closer to you in the shower just because I'm showering with Ricky Williams. I wasn't trying to look at you. First off, Tom, though, you took a shower? Cause we all know you don't really bathe like that. It was once a week. Bro, why you so nasty? Because I'm a nasty mother.

• 30:30Channing Crowder?

  That's, that's a life quote. When did it click to you that I'm not the normal guy walking down the street? I'm not the guy serving a barista.

• 30:40Ryan Clark?

  At Starbucks.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  It still hasn't clicked. It still hasn't clicked.

• 30:43Ryan Clark?

  It still hasn't clicked.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  It wasn't, I just didn't ever really bought into it so much. You know, because for me it was real.

• 30:48Ryan Clark?

  But it has to click though, bro.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  But for me, it was, real talk, it was really about the game.

• 30:52Fred Taylor?

  Do you love, you love football?

• 30:54Speaker 02

  The game, I love it. I love it. I like, like as I'm sitting here, I'm starstruck because I've seen everyone here play and, you know.

• 31:04Fred Taylor?

  Both of y'all like that, bro. I hate both of y'all, forever.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  There's something about like, like size and speed.

• 31:10Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  And like graceful and someone gets the ball and like you really know they can go anytime they touch it. Thanks. That's what I love watching, watching the Giants.

• 31:20Fred Taylor?

  So let me ask you this. You get suspended after 05, right?

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:23Fred Taylor?

  06, you went to Toronto.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:25Fred Taylor?

  What was that experience like playing in Canada?

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:27Fred Taylor?

  To go from a big university like Texas, NFL number, number five overall, right?

• 31:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:33Fred Taylor?

  The world was given to you.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:34Fred Taylor?

  Well, you earned it. You earned it. I don't want to, uh.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  I earned it, but it was still given. It's both. We gotta do both.

• 31:41Fred Taylor?

  What was it like playing in Canada?

• 31:42Speaker 02

  I loved it. I loved it. You know, because it reminded me of college. Not, not the big football part of it, but in Canada, you can only have a certain number of Americans on the team. And so all the Americans, we all hung out together and it was just back to the basics of football. It wasn't the hype, it was just football.

• 32:00Fred Taylor?

  So throughout that time, were you still in the NFL, like a program or anything?

• 32:04Speaker 02

  I was in the NFL drug program, but they weren't, I've, I found out after the first two months, they weren't sending anybody up to test me. And so it was like a kind of, I was waiting to see and then when I saw they weren't, then I would just, I was on the team, you know, go over to somebody's house, play Madden all night and go over there, smoke and chop it up. And that's another thing, like, there's other ways to bring, for fellowship, but I found there's nothing like guys getting together, passing something around and really getting to know each other.

• 32:30Ryan Clark?

  And so, like, we, we've moved to a different time in not only sports, but in society, right? To where mental health awareness is huge everywhere, but more so in the black community than ever. It was kind of something that was taboo for us. Um, and so in sports, you know, whether it's, whether it's Kevin Love or all these different athletes speaking out, we tend to run to back up our brethren in these situations. And I remember being younger, watching you do interviews in a helmet after practice and, and honestly being like,

• 33:05Ryan Clark?

  I don't understand it, you know, like, like, why is he doing it? Whereas today, if you did that same interview, the exact same way, the world, Twitter, Instagram, media will be running to your aid to say, there is something he's dealing with, we need to help him. But you are actually kind of villainized for this. How did that affect you in the way you felt about yourself? And also in the way you felt about people around you supporting?

• 33:36Speaker 02

  Back to what I, what I said earlier about, even then, when I looked about, about around the world and at the media and people that I was dealing with, I didn't think there was anything wrong with me. I thought there was something wrong with them.

• 33:48Ryan Clark?

  Ah, okay.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  And so, and so I, I don't think, I mean, maybe some people would, obviously would say he needs help. But I think, hopefully, I think nowadays people would have said, yeah, we need to look at the way the media treats athletes. Is that athletes are human beings? Because I think things have changed and I think one of the major things that have changed is we see athletes more as human beings who have a voice, you know? Not just chess pieces or characters on a video game. Because that was the whole point of wearing a helmet is that, I'm a sensitive person.

• 34:16Ryan Clark?

  Was, was it strategic though, Rick?

• 34:18Speaker 02

  No, well, it's, it started off as a, as a [BLEEP] you and then it turned into something that was more strategic. I was trying to express something that when I spoke with my mouth, no one listened. And so I had to take, you know, had to take action. Because for me, I, I, sitting there and, and knowing who I am and listening to the media ask me questions and feel like they don't care who I am. They're, they're trying to make me be something else and then ask me questions where I have to answer a certain way. But when I answer the way I feel, they say I'm avoiding the question or I'm doing this. And for me, I was like, what makes you guys set the rules?

• 34:50Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  And I say, if you're coming to me to ask me questions, then I, I'm the one who sets the rules. And so it was just like claiming my own agency in that, in that whole situation.

• 34:59Ryan Clark?

  But through that time, Rick, do you think the NFL did enough?

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Hell, no.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Just held up.

• 35:05Channing Crowder?

  Like, you're watching one of your top running backs. Like, we saw what happened. The Saints traded away a tire draft to get you. Like, you were a dog, bro, Heisman Trophy winner. And you come in the league, and now, one of their stars is wearing his damn helmet during interviews.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:21Channing Crowder?

  Nobody reached out to you, nobody said anything to you, nobody sent you a number to talk to. NFL did not look at that as a problem.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Maybe you're not hearing me, okay? What I'm saying is the problem wasn't with me. The problem is with the NFL, from my perspective.

• 35:38Channing Crowder?

  Wow.

• 35:38Speaker 02

  From my perspective, right? Is I'm the kind of person where I just figure, like, my main number one demand in life is that you have to treat me like a dignified human being. And if I don't feel like that, then I'm gonna act a certain way. Regardless of who you are, regardless of how much money you're paying me. That's just me.

• 35:54Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  And, and, and that makes me, and if that makes me crazy, then I'm 100% crazy.

• 35:59Channing Crowder?

  What does crazy mean to you?

• 36:01Fred Taylor?

  Not so much crazy, rebellious. Because there's a set of rules that, you know, we all have to abide by.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  But the rules were not made for us, players or us, black people. The rules in this country were not made for us. A matter of fact, a lot of the rules were made for anti-us. And then, and I, but I think the only way that changes and the rules come to some kind of like middle ground is if we rebel against the bullshit rules. And I feel like everything I rebelled against was bullshit. I don't feel like I rebelled against anything that.

• 36:30Channing Crowder?

  That made sense to me.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  That made sense to me.

• 36:32Channing Crowder?

  Your rebellion of what you did, how you were, social anxiety, which I saw. Me, you, and Ronnie Brown.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  Talking about that.

• 36:40Channing Crowder?

  Were sitting in Prime 112 one night, and it was me, Rick, and Ronnie. It was three of us at a table. It was Friday night, and everybody was around. And me, Rick, and Ronnie were sitting there, and we're telling football stories, we're having a good time. And then, I'll be honest, some girls walked up that I knew.

• 36:58Channing Crowder?

  And I said, sit down. So we pulled, we pulled that little, you know what I'm saying, that little, that little square table that turned into a circle. So we pulled it up and we were there for an hour with Rick and we're talking, we're having a good time. And then we pulled a table up and then three more people sit down and I saw Rick kind of go into more of a shell. And then some more people come up and we push two tables together and I see Rick even shrink more. And that social anxiety, I was one of those guys that thought like that, you know, mental health thing, like it was one of the times that I knew like. It was a real thing. I watched your social anxiety in person. I watched it in real life.

• 37:43Channing Crowder?

  Is that still there for you? Like i- is that still there where, you know, it's, it's just us now, but if ten, twelve, fifteen people start sitting down, is that still there?

• 37:52Speaker 02

  So it's funny, I, I do a little thing on, on Dan Levittard's podcast. And last week we sat down and I sat in my, in my own house, my own house. I sat down and there was a new person on the, on the screen. And I, and I noticed when I sat down that I got kind of like moody and Dan was like, oh, here we go. We got, we got Ricky, Ricky Williams moody today. And he said, who is it? Is it this person? I said, no, it's the girl. And they were like, what do you mean? And so I like, I said, hey, I want, I talked to her and I said, what's your name? And she told me her name. I said, what's your like, what's your story? And I said, give me your thirty second version of your story. So she gave me her thirty second version of the story and then I was good. So I'm just the kind of person where if I'm gonna fuck with somebody, I want to fuck with you on a deep level. And I get like that to see like, can we, can we go there?

• 38:38Speaker 02

  And that's just me. And I think probably too much, I leaned on that too much and so it, it caused anxiety. But now I don't get anxious, but I'm like, okay, this like where this party is going is not that interesting to me.

• 38:50Fred Taylor?

  Right. You gotta, you gotta be able to observe the bullshit. So I can, I can tuck myself in too. You know, I have a bit of, a little bit of social anxiety. I might have a drink or two and kind of loosen up a little bit, but majority of the time I'm, I'm, it's, it's. Thirty percent social anxiety and seventy percent, let me check out the bullshit. You know, I'm not just gonna open up to everybody that's brand new to the section or that just coming to the table. Why? You know, I listen, you know, more than I talk, even on the show. You know, they wanna deem me as Freddie's the OG, you know, all that crazy. No, let me listen and hear everybody out first. Cause the loudest person is probably the stupidest in the room.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  Huh?

• 39:35Fred Taylor?

  Not you, bro.

• 39:37Ryan Clark?

  Why you looked at him though?

• 39:38Fred Taylor?

  Not you.

• 39:40Ryan Clark?

  And then he hit you with two hands too. The loudest person with the old curl fingers.

• 39:46Fred Taylor?

  No, I'm like.

• 39:49Fred Taylor?

  Give it to me, baby.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 39:51Fred Taylor?

  Not you. I'm not taking a jab.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no.

• 39:55Fred Taylor?

  I'm generalizing.

• 39:55Ryan Clark?

  He jabs constantly.

• 39:56Fred Taylor?

  But that's me. You know, that's always been me. So, and I can kinda, you know, I feel you on that.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  I'm to the place now where I still like come more inside. I'm not as like anxious and nervous about it because I know this is just me. But a lot of people, they expect a football player to be a certain way. And so when they see that, it's almost an overreaction to it. Where people that know me, they know, oh, that's just Rick.

• 40:18Channing Crowder?

  To that point of like what you were going through. So you're the best running back in the league.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  I really don't think about that. Like for me, I was so focused on like what I had to do. Like I was that nerd that's watching film, right? We put the zone play and I'm watching all the cut ups. All the cut ups. All the cut ups. So I was so focused on what I did that I wasn't really.

• 40:40Ryan Clark?

  Rick, do you think, do you think because of some of the outside perception of you, people missed out on how important football really was to you? Cause I'm gonna say even from the outside for me, like to hear you say that right there is almost a revelation for me. Do you think the others?

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Ask someone who saw me practice on a daily basis.

• 41:00Ryan Clark?

  Right, we didn't know, you see what I'm saying? All we got was media, you know?

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:04Channing Crowder?

  If he breaks a run at the 20, he's gonna run 80 yards to the end zone.

• 41:09Ryan Clark?

  I love that.

• 41:10Channing Crowder?

  I thought he was crazy.

• 41:12Ryan Clark?

  I love that.

• 41:12Channing Crowder?

  I thought he was nuts. I saw him one time when he first came back, 05, and he hit a hole and that was, God rest his soul, I don't even wanna cry, Junior Sayal. Junior was on the team. You know what, you know what story I'm about to tell? Junior didn't practice hard because it was Junior Sayal.

• 41:29Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:29Channing Crowder?

  And Junior ran up in his gap. And I wasn't starting at the time because it was Zach Thomas, Junior Sayal. There's no way my sorry ass is gonna start.

• 41:38Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 41:38Channing Crowder?

  And I see Junior run up in the B gap. And I see Junior eject out the B gap. And I see Rick just keep running down the sideline. And Junior got up, Junior Sayal took his helmet off and threw it and said, "Y'all motherfuckers don't know how to practice." And Junior quit practicing.

• 41:54Ryan Clark?

  Was it because Ricky ran?

• 41:56Channing Crowder?

  Ricky ran his ass flat, clean, over. Because when the OGs is playing like, "You ain't trying to run me over."

• 42:02Ryan Clark?

  You gotta give respect.

• 42:03Channing Crowder?

  I'm not trying to knock you out.

• 42:04Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 42:05Channing Crowder?

  Ricky practiced like he was a rookie.

• 42:08Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 42:08Channing Crowder?

  Even when he came back. This is af- this is after Ricky was a pro bowler.

• 42:11Ryan Clark?

  Rick practiced like an undrafted free agent.

• 42:13Channing Crowder?

  When Rick came back in 05, and it was my rookie year, so I'm playing like hell. And he stung my damn shoulder a couple of times. You gave me some stingers and I'm gonna need some money. Because I don't know my shoulder, my right shoulder is right. But Ricky practiced in 05 after going to Pro Bowls and being the top pick in the New Orleans stuff, like he was an undrafted free agent every practice and took it to the house. And it blew my mind because I was starstruck.

• 42:40Ryan Clark?

  Right. It's Ricky Williams.

• 42:41Channing Crowder?

  When Rick walked in the locker room, I wasn't starstruck by too many people. Lawrence Taylor, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, and Ricky Williams. Were the four people that ever starstruck me in my entire life.

• 42:52Ryan Clark?

  How does that feel though when somebody you play with puts you in a conversation with not only three of the greatest athletes of all time, people who people feel like are the greatest to ever do what they did as a job?

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Well, I think to me what, what it is that he saw me work.

• 43:10Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  And that's different than, than just what you see somebody, what they do on Sundays.

• 43:15Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  To me, so much of what I did was just the workout. And even in the weight room, like when I showed up to work, like every day in offseason, if I could walk back to the, to the locker room, I did.

• 43:26Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  I didn't hit it hard enough, yeah.

• 43:30Fred Taylor?

  What people fail to realize is that NFL has been around for more than over 100 years.

• 43:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:35Fred Taylor?

  Throughout that time, it's been thousands of running backs.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:39Fred Taylor?

  There's this exclusive club that, uh, you know, once you attain that level, you know, pretty much you're, you're, you're elite of the elite. And Ricky's attained that level, it's the 10,000-yard rushing club.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:52Fred Taylor?

  Now, you're 31 on that list.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:54Fred Taylor?

  How does that feel?

• 43:55Speaker 02

  You know, it, it.

• 43:56Fred Taylor?

  Was it, was it a goal?

• 43:57Speaker 02

  It was because of the way my career went. I felt like with all the ups and downs and the suspensions, that if I could walk away with, with 10,000 rushing yards, that I felt like I can say I, I did my thing in the, in the NFL.

• 44:09Fred Taylor?

  31 of the best running backs to ever.

• 44:12Ryan Clark?

  In the history of the game.

• 44:13Fred Taylor?

  In the history of the game.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  And you know this, the, the key is longevity, especially at the running back position. Can you, can you be productive over the long, over the long term? Cause otherwise, you know, you're not getting to 10,000 yards.

• 44:23Ryan Clark?

  You got, you got Fred, or Fred got you?

• 44:26Speaker 02

  Fred got me, like, Fred got me. He got me. For real. Real deal.

• 44:30Ryan Clark?

  Freddie.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Real deal.

• 44:31Ryan Clark?

  You got, you got Rick?

• 44:33Fred Taylor?

  We both had our, our own different adversities. Mine was due to injuries, for the most part. That slowed me down.

• 44:39Ryan Clark?

  And people use that against you, when you talk about the Hall of Fame conversation.

• 44:42Fred Taylor?

  Even right now.

• 44:42Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 44:43Fred Taylor?

  Uh, but from a talent standpoint, you know, and, and pound for pound, now, I've always been a fan of Ricky. I remember when New Orleans came to Jacksonville to practice.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  For practice, yeah.

• 44:53Fred Taylor?

  You know, it was early on, uh, I think it was maybe your first or second year.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  It was my first and second year.

• 44:57Fred Taylor?

  You know, and, uh, knowing who he was, I was a fan of him in college. I went over, you know, we found each other, had a conversation.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Right, that's awesome.

• 45:04Fred Taylor?

  And I've been a fan ever since. But, uh, you know, I, I could say, you know, he was always one of my favorite backs to watch.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  100%.

• 45:11Fred Taylor?

  You know, throughout our era, in terms of I got Ricky or he got me, you know, if I believe that. Yeah, I believe that if we, you know, under certain circumstances, it could have gone either way.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 45:22Fred Taylor?

  You know, he's a bad mother.

• 45:24Ryan Clark?

  Hell, yeah. Rick, what was it like when the Wildcat jumped on?

• 45:27Speaker 02

  It was great because you know how it is in, in your, your room, right? In your, in your position room. The thing about the Wildcats, we had four of us. We had four running backs on the field at the same time. And, and it became a, a pretty, like, probably. 20% of our offense that year. And so it was great that the whole room was getting to contribute. And being able to spend time with Ronnie like that was great, too. And beating up on the Patriots.

• 45:51Ryan Clark?

  Do you ever watch football right now and see the Lamar Jacksons, the Kyler Murrays, the Cam Newtons, these different quarterbacks who have zone read in their game, who do all the RPOs? And ever think back to yourself like, man, like, this is part of what we started?

• 46:08Speaker 02

  We did it. We definitely started it. Because I think it was one of those things where NFL coaches would say, that's what they do in college. That's not going to work here. But we had so much success. We had so much success doing it that it stuck. I mean, we even had Ronnie, like, just doing the zone read, where he either was giving it to me or he was taking off. And we were crushing people with that.

• 46:26Channing Crowder?

  Did y'all think that was going to work because we didn't?

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Hell nah.

• 46:29Channing Crowder?

  Okay.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  Hell nah. But we were, I think we were 0-2. And we're going up to New England and we were like, let's try. Let's give it a try. Yeah, let's see.

• 46:39Channing Crowder?

  Because we bashed y'all's head in at practice in that Wildcat. We tore y'all's ass up. So when y'all got into it, we were like...

• 46:47Speaker 02

  Because you guys saw it every day. We ran that, we ran the Wildcat every single day in walk-through. Every day.

• 46:52Channing Crowder?

  What was the funnest time in your football career? I'm talking about high school to college to any time. What was like the time that you enjoyed football the most?

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Like, college?

• 47:01Ryan Clark?

  Really?

• 47:02Speaker 02

  College.

• 47:02Ryan Clark?

  So not high school, pros, college?

• 47:04Speaker 02

  College.

• 47:05Ryan Clark?

  What was it about college that...?

• 47:06Speaker 02

  I just loved my teammates. It was like a family.

• 47:09Ryan Clark?

  So with college being your best experience, what do you think can be instilled at the lower levels, the high school levels, to help people like us reach their ultimate potential and be successful?

• 47:22Speaker 02

  That I think that when we talk about our ultimate potential, it has to go beyond just what we do on the football field.

• 47:26Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  Because to me, what I did on the football field just trained me to get the most out of all my other potentials. And so I think, you know, when I was a kid, they would always say, what's your backup plan? But for me... Even if you play a long time, you still got half your life. It's not a backup plan, you know? So I think just getting people to think about, even if you are making it to the league, how can you use that as a platform? Like, what are your, what are your larger goals?

• 47:50Ryan Clark?

  Like, you think, you talked about being from San Diego and the way you had to, not necessarily conform, but the way that you guys banded together as minorities, right? And as African Americans, what would be your message to those kids? Or what would you like those kids to be able to have, to hang on to, that when they're sitting around like us at this age, they feel like they've been supported through life? And they feel like they've accomplished the things that they want to accomplish?

• 48:18Speaker 02

  So I think support is from my experiences. And my experiences tell me that I, that I didn't receive a proper education.

• 48:25Ryan Clark?

  Really?

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:26Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  And so-

• 48:28Ryan Clark?

  High school, college?

• 48:29Speaker 02

  Any of it.

• 48:30Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  The best education I got was in Sunday School. Okay? Because what I learned there prepared me to handle all the other BS. And so I think of a program where kids, middle school, maybe high school, kind of like, like Jewish people. They have a program where they, they take them back to Israel and, and they get to visit and have like a cultural program and understand their roots.

• 48:53Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  And I feel like if, if someone would have taken me to Africa and like showed me my roots and I would have saw like a, like a shaman and a witch doctor and, and seeing them cooking all the herbs, right? Then I, I wouldn't have felt so alienated when those things felt like they were part of who I am. And I think we've been uprooted. And I think we just don't really know our roots. And so I think some kind of cultural program to let us know that we are kings.

• 49:19Channing Crowder?

  And is that, is that getting back, like you said earlier, that you want to coach out of HBCU?

• 49:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:24Channing Crowder?

  And I'm, I'm wrapping it around with it.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  That's real.

• 49:27Channing Crowder?

  But that's what you want to see.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  I, I look at people, and especially these past couple of years, they talk about white privilege. I call it white ignorance. Because a lot of people, not all of them, but a lot of them, they don't do well in adversity. And I think our strength is that when it's a fan, like, like we show up.

• 49:42Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 49:43Speaker 02

  Right? And, and that's, that's what you need in life.

• 49:46Channing Crowder?

  The world has taught all four of us to show up physically.

• 49:51Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 49:52Channing Crowder?

  You know what I'm saying? Super Bowls. Hall of Fame. You fucked up the Hall of Fame, I ain't gonna lie. And then I did okay. But like, it showed us, we showed up physically when the lights were on. How do you, how do you teach kids to show up when it's not athletic? How do you teach them to show up when it's not about carrying the ball?

• 50:10Speaker 02

  You played for African-American head coach.

• 50:12Ryan Clark?

  I think the, the thing that was best about playing for Mike T. Is being able to walk into an office and be honest.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:19Ryan Clark?

  Be honest about what I feel, be honest about what I saw, be honest about what I, what I felt was the solution.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:26Ryan Clark?

  And have somebody look at me and be able to understand the perspective in which that came from. We all know as men, there's not gonna be 100% of the things that either of you tell me that I agree with. But if I could say, Channing, like, I don't really, I don't agree with you, but I understand it. And that was always Mike T could tell me, cuz he always had the last decision, right?

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:46Ryan Clark?

  But I always walked out of the office feeling like he heard me.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:50Ryan Clark?

  Which was the most important for me cuz I understood the structure of football. You know, and I think when Channing asks you about being an HBCU coach, and we talked about that earlier. I think that's the thing kids could get most from you is understanding perspective. Especially with your experiences, and so do you feel like those experiences qualify you to be able to do the job of a Deion, or a Hugh Jackson, or Eddie George?

• 51:17Speaker 02

  I think, I think 100%. I mean, I feel like, like, all of my experience had prepared me for that kinda situation. Because my, my vision for what these young men can be is not the one that these other coaches have for them. It's not even close.

• 51:30Fred Taylor?

  But they see this laid-back, nonchalant, you know, very soft-spoken guy. Do you think, you know, those, those powers that be would ever take you serious and bring you in as a hire?

• 51:42Speaker 02

  I, I don't think they would. Is this something I've been thinking about, like, a lot? When, when we were brought over as slaves, okay, one of the main, main problems, and if you think about this, the main problems that they had to solve, okay, is how does they, how do they break our will? How do they break our natural aggressive urges? How, how do they do that? So if you think of all of the manpower, all of the manpower that, because that's how they got, that's how they're gonna get their money, right? If they get that free labor. So it was that manpower of how to make us submissive. And part of it was, I think when we started playing sports, is they could channel it into entertainment.

• 52:16Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  You know? And so I think it's just natural for it to produce anxiety when there's one of us that they know they can't control.

• 52:23Ryan Clark?

  I've learned a ton today. I think more than I actually expected to learn, man. So I just want to say thank you.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  Nah, this was great. I got like, I feel like I got a lot off my chest.

• 52:32Channing Crowder?

  It was good. I tell you, ain't nobody, ain't nobody hiding with that thick ass mustache.

• 52:36Ryan Clark?

  Hey.

• 52:36Channing Crowder?

  Bro, that mustache doubled twice over.

• 52:38Ryan Clark?

  How the hell he chew?

• 52:43Ryan Clark?

  But I appreciate you, dawg, man. Thank you so much, man, for sure. Respect always, bro. Yeah. Heisman.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:50Ryan Clark?

  Heisman.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:52Channing Crowder?

  Love it.