The Basement: Michael Salla | Nordics, Grays, and the Secret Space Program

-Discover how to move your IRA or 401k into physical gold and silver — with no taxes or penalties. Get your free portfolio review and free gold & silver guide from GoldenCrest Metals: visit https://whyfileslovegold.com or call (888) 949-9172 now. -Download Cash App Today: https://click.cash.app/ui6m/re0kp2pw #CashAppPartner Terms apply. Bitcoin services by Block, Inc. See the Bitcoin disclosures at cash.app/legal/podcast. Dr. Michael Salla spent years in war zones - East Timor, Kosovo, Sri Lanka - teaching conflict resolution at American University. Then one press conference in 2001 cost him his academic career. Twenty-five years later he's still here, still citing his sources, and he's telling me things about Eisenhower, Antarctica and a soldier named JP that I can't shake. Some of it I couldn't debunk. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

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• 0:25AJ Gentile?

  Today, we're sitting down with Dr. Michael Salla. Michael was a peace and conflict professor at American University just back from East Timor in Kosovo when he decided UFOs belonged in the curriculum. The Washington Post wrote about him. The university showed him the door. He spent 25 years building a field he calls exopolitics. And I can't research a story without tripping over his work. Today, we're covering the night Eisenhower went missing in 1954.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  The president vanishes for a night? And the story is he was at the dentist? And that's what I told Gertie after my weekend in Reno.

• 0:57AJ Gentile?

  Did she buy it?

• 0:58Speaker 02

  She did not. Nobody with teeth this perfect goes to the dentist. They go gambling.

• 1:04AJ Gentile?

  Anyway, we'll also be covering why Michael thinks Space Force was the real disclosure and a soldier named JP who says he's seen what's hidden under a mountain in Alabama. He also told me about a body on a beach in Grenada in 1977 and what the prime minister did about it at the United Nations. I'd never heard that story, and I was surprised.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  The UN actually did something. A human, that's the most alien part of the story.

• 1:28AJ Gentile?

  I don't disagree. Stick around after the episode. I'll pop back in and untangle the conversation. Let's go down to the basement.

• 1:42AJ Gentile?

  Dr. Salla is here. I need to thank you because I don't know if I would have a platform without you.

• 1:48Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:49AJ Gentile?

  Because you're—I can't really—I don't research a story and not find something that you've already covered. You're a great resource, so thank you.

• 1:57Speaker 03

  You're welcome, yeah. I've had plenty of time to do it.

• 2:01AJ Gentile?

  You do a lot of stuff. Before we get into the—all the good stuff, I want to talk about what you were doing in East Timor and your diplomacy work there. You said that you had a lot of success getting the Timorese and the Indonesians to talk.

• 2:23Speaker 03

  That's right, yeah.

• 2:25AJ Gentile?

  Could you give us just a quick background of what was going on there? Because it was pretty violent.

• 2:29Speaker 03

  Well, that's right, yeah.

• 2:31AJ Gentile?

  And how you got that—how you got them to work together?

• 2:34Speaker 03

  Right, that was—I went to East Timor in 1993 and 94, December, January of those years. And I spent two, three weeks there. And I was just touring the island of East Timor, interviewing people, just interviewing all the Timorese. What's it like? I mean, are the Indonesians treating you well? Or is this a very bad situation that you're in? And most of the East Timorese were like, no, we're in a very bad situation. And some were kind of like very hesitant to reveal what's going on and very frightened. And they all watched.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  And I remember probably one of the most vivid instances was I was interviewing a Catholic priest in East Timor. And he was telling me about how the Indonesians were repressing the Timorese. The Timorese are Catholic Portuguese colony, ex-Portuguese colony, and the Indonesians being Muslim. And he was saying that, well, right now, there's a guy that's watching us talking. And as soon as you leave here, he's going to come in here and he's going to beat me up and get the information from me about what we talked about. And that was a Catholic priest.

• 3:52AJ Gentile?

  And that was—did that really happen, do you think, to him?

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, he was shaking. I mean, as we're talking, he was shaking. Because I was a researcher from Australia, and the Indonesians had this deference to Australians. I mean, because I guess they had a little bit—a lot to fear or some fear that the Australian authorities would give them a hard time at the United Nations. They already had a big problem with Portugal that was really championing the East Timorese cause. So I went there because I just—that was one of the areas that I was very interested in, like ethnic minorities and how were they treated by the majority. And often, it's horrible. And so that's what I found. That's what I confirmed.

• 4:40Speaker 03

  And probably one of the most vivid things that happened after I left East Timor—actually, I got arrested.

• 4:49AJ Gentile?

  You got arrested there?

• 4:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, in East Timor.

• 4:51AJ Gentile?

  For what?

• 4:52Speaker 03

  I tried to meet the guerrilla leaders, one of the guerrilla leaders, because it was like—it was part of my research.

• 4:57AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  And so I met someone, and they said, well, you know, there's—the guerrilla leadership are here and they're fighting against the Indonesians. And so I said, well, let's—I'd like to meet them. And they said, well, can you write some questions? And so I wrote some questions, and they said that they would arrange for a meeting. Well, it turns out that the Indonesian security officials got my questions. The guy that got the questions from me, I guess he was detained or maybe he was a double agent or something. But next thing I know, I get raided by the Indonesian police. And they are like, well, we hear you're trying to meet with the guerrilla leaders.

• 5:41AJ Gentile?

  Was it the Valentine? I forget what they're called.

• 5:44Speaker 03

  Right, yeah, that was—yeah, that's so long ago now. But the Timorese guerrillas were fighting in the hills since East Timor was invaded in 1975. So they were really very determined to resist to the very end. And at that time, and we're talking 1994, the guerrillas were still very active. It was a war zone, and you had to go through police checkpoints or army checkpoints as you're traveling around East Timor.

• 6:17AJ Gentile?

  So were you detained?

• 6:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I was detained. And they asked me, well, what are you trying to do? And I said, well, I'm a researcher from Australia, and I want to know what's going on. And I wanted to ask these questions. And I guess I was fortunate because the Indonesian authorities asked me, well, what are your plans? Well, today, I'm actually flying out of Billy, the capital of East Timor, and I'm going to Jakarta. And so they said, all right, well, we'll just escort you to the airport. So I gathered my things, and they escorted me to the airport. And so I got off pretty lightly.

• 6:55AJ Gentile?

  That was fine.

• 6:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was—that was fine. I was like—I wasn't roughed up or anything. But I guess that was the advantage of being an Australian at the time, that the Indonesian authorities did have a certain fear of detaining an Australian citizen and being given a hard time by the Australian authorities. And so they were happy for me to just fly into Jakarta. And so I flew to Jakarta, and then I went to the—

• 7:24AJ Gentile?

  Another dangerous place.

• 7:26Speaker 03

  Well, you know, potholes.

• 7:29AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 7:30Speaker 03

  All over Jakarta. And so I went there, and I went to the Indonesian—what was it? The Ministry of Information? And I spoke to the Minister of Information, Irawan Abadino, the spokesperson—I can't remember his precise title. And he proceeded to tell me how Indonesians treats the East Timorese really well. The East Timorese are very, very happy. And I was just there.

• 7:58AJ Gentile?

  That's not what they say.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  They're impressed, exactly. They are frightened. They're being harassed. They're intimidated. You know, I spoke to dozens of East Timorese, and they were just, you know, just totally intimidated, living in this police state, war zone, and—

• 8:15AJ Gentile?

  What's it like now there for them? For the East Timorese?

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Well, after they gathered—after they gained independence, what was that, 1999? When they had the vote, the UN vote, then they got their independence. And the people that I had been interviewing and organizing events with now suddenly became ministers and prime ministers and all of that. So that was really—that was really cool to see.

• 8:44AJ Gentile?

  And is there still tension between the—with the Indonesians?

• 8:50Speaker 03

  I haven't been back, so I don't know the exact level of the tension, but I know that the Timorese are very happy to get independence.

• 9:01AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:03AJ Gentile?

  You've been in quite a few war zones.

• 9:07AJ Gentile?

  Why?

• 9:08Speaker 03

  East Timor, Sri Lanka.

• 9:10AJ Gentile?

  Kosovo?

• 9:11Speaker 03

  And Kosovo, yeah.

• 9:12AJ Gentile?

  Why are you in war zones?

• 9:14Speaker 03

  Again, I just this, I have this affinity for ethnic minorities that are oppressed by a majority that just doesn't recognize their rights to language or maybe political rights, suppress their culture, that they might suppress them on religious terms. And I guess it's a instinctive desire to help people who are being oppressed by larger groups. And I've always been drawn to that.

• 9:52AJ Gentile?

  Let me see if I get this right. You've got, um, your first degree was a Bachelor of Science. Then you moved into philosophy. And then political science.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 10:03AJ Gentile?

  So it was during that, I mean, that's quite different to go from a BS to philosophy. Was it during that journey where you decided that you had a mission? Because I've heard you describe that you feel like you have a mission.

• 10:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:18AJ Gentile?

  And you felt safe in these places.

• 10:20Speaker 03

  I did, yeah, definitely.

• 10:21AJ Gentile?

  Was it during your academic training that the mission appeared?

• 10:27Speaker 03

  Well, after I did my master's degree on Ludwig Wittgenstein, the philosophy of language, so very kind of obviously a very esoteric topic.

• 10:38AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 10:38Speaker 03

  I got interested in the political philosophies of Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi. And so in both of those cases, and there were two others, two other people that champion nonviolent resistance. And so that really attracted me. I was very attracted to people that advocated nonviolent resistance to oppressive regimes. And I wanted to study them and support them. And so that's what I did in all those cases. In East Timor, Sri Lanka, and also Kosovo, there were groups that were advocating nonviolent resistance. And of course, Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gandhi, and two others, Danilo Dolce from Southern Italy, and also Dom Helder Camara

• 11:23Speaker 03

  from Brazil, were all advocating nonviolent resistance to oppressive structures or groups. And so I like looked at that and I wanted to help that. And so that's how my academic career took off. I was very drawn to these resistance movements involving ethnic minorities that were advocating peace.

• 11:47AJ Gentile?

  And this is citizen diplomacy, right? This is not working through official channels?

• 11:52Speaker 03

  That's right, yes. It was always citizen diplomacy, always finding people that were advocating nonviolent resistance and supporting them in some way, like getting funding from official organizations. I was able to raise money from different organizations and we'd hold workshops. You know, we'd be funded by groups like USAID.

• 12:15AJ Gentile?

  Pentagon's not going to fund any of that.

• 12:17Speaker 03

  No, no, that's right. They didn't. They, in fact, I remember

• 12:23Speaker 03

  doing something concerning the East Timor conflict. And it was very clear that Paul Wolfowitz, who became a very high level official in the in the second Bush administration.

• 12:37AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 12:37Speaker 03

  I mean, he was actually the US ambassador to Indonesia.

• 12:42AJ Gentile?

  That's right, he was.

• 12:43Speaker 03

  And I was advocating on behalf of the East Timorese. And I remember sitting down and talking with him because there was a kind of State Department element involved. And he was very clearly sharing views that were sympathetic to the Indonesians.

• 13:04AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, of course.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  So, and that's institutionally, that's what they do. They always support the state actors.

• 13:12AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  They have deals. And I was supporting the little guy. And it's like, well, the Timorese want their freedom. And they, you know, they're willing to fight for it using nonviolent means, and they did deserve support. And of course, they did have a lot of support from different groups around the world and countries like Portugal. And to a lesser extent, Australia supported the Timorese's resistance. But the official policy at the big level in terms of the US, Australia, NATO, European Union was to support the Indonesian state.

• 13:47AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, and if we don't like the state, then we just change it and support the new one.

• 13:52AJ Gentile?

  So what does success look like when you're doing that kind of work? So, look, something quiet happened this week that most people missed. A former CFTC chair, the guy who used to regulate derivatives, went on record. And what he said should stop you cold. Congress banned a central bank digital currency. The Fed swore it wasn't building one. This guy said, quote, "That does not mean we're not looking at how to create one." Project Agora, look it up. Meaning, soon every account you own becomes a switch somebody else controls. And they've been telling you why they're going to want to flip it. National debt just crossed $40 trillion. Interest alone, over a trillion a year. Bigger than Medicare and Medicaid combined. There's one way out of that math, and you already know what it is.

• 14:36AJ Gentile?

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• 15:13Speaker 03

  Well, it's funny, like, the success for the East Timor conflict led to my demise as an academic.

• 15:19AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  Because we actually did achieve success, which was that the Timorese did get their independence. So the groups that were advocating nonviolent resistance and we were able to get the United Nations involved in our efforts to bring about a reconciliation or some kind of agreement between the Indonesian, those Indonesians that was willing to sit down and talk with the Timorese. They sat down and they talked and they said, well, let's come up with some kind of power sharing agreement where you could.

• 15:55AJ Gentile?

  Are you in the room for that? Are you in the room with them?

• 15:57Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:58AJ Gentile?

  What is that, what is that like?

• 16:00Speaker 03

  Well, we got people from Indonesian civil society to sit down with people from East Timorese civil society.

• 16:08AJ Gentile?

  Ah, so this is in two generals in a meeting?

• 16:10Speaker 03

  No, no, no. These were members of civil society from both. And they were willing to talk. I mean, this is one of the things that I found in my career as in peace and conflict resolution, that there's always people from both sides that are willing to talk. It's only the extremists that want to.

• 16:27AJ Gentile?

  Right, I would bet that most citizens in a conflict, whether it's America and Iran, most citizens of these countries would just prefer to sit down and talk.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 16:37AJ Gentile?

  Most, almost all, I would wager.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  Yep, totally. So they want to sit, they want to talk.

• 16:45AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  And they can come up with solutions. And it's natural for them to start talking about, well, you know, what are your needs, what are your vital interests? You know, these are the key elements in conflict resolution. Whereas politicians go for positions. Well, this is our max, this is our maximum demand. Or this is something we will not compromise on. They talk in terms of absolutes positions. Whereas people talk in terms of needs, vital interests. And you could always make, reach agreements when it's a need. Because ultimately, it's like, well, someone has a need for security. They have a need for financial independence.

• 17:30Speaker 03

  You can talk about that and you can come up with solutions. But if you talk about positions, they tend to be win lose. They kind of fix some outcomes. So that's what we were doing in conflict resolution. Because if you tend to focus on, you know, what are parties' needs and vital interests, then you can come up with what's called variable some solutions where, you know, you expand, you literally expand the pie.

• 17:59AJ Gentile?

  And do you get pushback from the military establishment in these countries and the power structures that exist?

• 18:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, because they tend to just get fixed on positions. And in the positions, it's like, well, there's only so much territory that can be shared or can be divided up. And so they tend to be these fix some outcomes. And so in the case of East Timor and the Indonesians, it was, well, East Timor was either going to be part of sovereign Indonesia, or it's not. And those are the.

• 18:35AJ Gentile?

  That's its spiter, yes.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Whereas with the conflict resolution, it's like, well, can we come up with something that, you know, like, like, say, in the case of, say, Hong Kong or something that, I mean, that's changed with China, but up until 1999, Hong Kong was this sovereign territory of Britain that was now going through a kind of autonomous stage with China. And the Chinese were going to respect that for 50 years. And that was a good bridging solution. But then the Chinese reneged when the Hong Kong population started to protest. And the Chinese said, we can't let this get out of hand. We've got to crush this. And so they crushed it.

• 19:18AJ Gentile?

  I promised that we're going to do aliens and stuff at some point. But I mean, I don't get a chance to, I've talked to a lot of political scientists. So I have, I have questions. And now that you brought up Hong Kong.

• 19:31AJ Gentile?

  Do you think we have a similar situation coming with Taiwan? And is there citizen diplomacy that can help there? Because China's Taiwan would be useful for them.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's definitely a possibility where the Taiwanese and the Chinese can come up with a solution like autonomy or something whereby you have one China, two systems. I mean, that was supposed to work with Hong Kong, but it didn't because the Chinese saw that the Hong Kong population were really agitating for freedom and democracy, which they never really had under the British.

• 20:17AJ Gentile?

  No, they didn't.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  They didn't really have it under the British. But when it became an autonomous part of China, it was like, wow, we want democracy. And the Chinese said, well, no, no, we've got to put out, we've got to put our thumb on this, we've got to stop it because they're just going too far now. But with the Taiwanese, the Taiwanese really have had a, their own flourish in democracy since World War Two. So you do have an opportunity for two, for two system or like two political systems under the one sovereign state. And I think that's possible that the Chinese and the Taiwanese will eventually come up with a solution. But the Americans.

• 21:00AJ Gentile?

  That's the problem.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  You know, got their kind of finger in the pie and they can.

• 21:04AJ Gentile?

  That's the problem.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  Influence the outcome.

• 21:07AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I don't think China wants to go to war over that or anything. I really don't.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's, there's no reason why they should go to war and destroy.

• 21:16AJ Gentile?

  Destroy their economy.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  What is a flourishing economy. Because eventually China and Taiwan will merge to some degree. Now, I think the Taiwanese, because they have this very vibrant democratic system and have had international recognition up until the 1970s, that they'll be able to maintain their, their system in the event of a solution with China where they agree that, okay, you have your communist system on the mainland, we'll maintain our democratic institutions

• 21:57Speaker 03

  and we'll reach some agreement where the Taiwanese army and the Chinese army will merge.

• 22:06AJ Gentile?

  Really? You think China will recognize Taiwan as Taiwan?

• 22:12Speaker 03

  I think they'll come up with some solution where Taiwan can be peacefully incorporated into, into China without there being a war.

• 22:23AJ Gentile?

  Well, that's the thing is that it, of course it can, because it always can. You can always solve these without a war.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, and there's no reason why the Taiwanese and China need to go to war because you have a large percentage of the Mandarin speaking Chinese on Taiwan identifying with the mainland.

• 22:44AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  They're the refugees from Chiang Kai-shek's exodus from mainland China. So they see themselves as Chinese. I mean, and sure, you see a, another group of Taiwanese that are more indigenous to the island and they see themselves as separate to Taiwan, uh, separate to China. And, and so they want to, they're more supportive of independence.

• 23:08AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  But Taiwan is, does have those very powerful divisions and, you know, the, now they're in the opposition, the, the kind of old Kuomintang party. Now they're in opposition, but they support some kind of reconciliation with mainland China.

• 23:26AJ Gentile?

  Well, sure, a war would stop chip manufacture, which would stop AI development, where China is doing very well. That would all grind to a halt. Nobody wants that.

• 23:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 23:37AJ Gentile?

  Except America, maybe. I don't know what's going to happen. I want to go further back because your CV had something very interesting from 1984. I think it was before your PhD, you were an emergency teacher for Victorian education.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  That's right. Yeah, I was a high school teacher.

• 23:57AJ Gentile?

  Yes. So like, that's like a substitute teacher. What did that, a substitute teacher for like teenagers, right?

• 24:04Speaker 03

  It was in high school, a high school, yeah.

• 24:06AJ Gentile?

  So what did that teach you about holding a room, holding attention?

• 24:11Speaker 03

  It was like the Wild West in there. It was like so many students that, whose attention would kind of like vary and you really had to find a way of holding their attention. And, and that took skill.

• 24:30AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  It took experience. And I was a newbie at that time and, and I thought, well, coming from a university and having these degrees, that I would just spout the information that needed to be.

• 24:44AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  Caught and that somehow they, they would appreciate it. It was like, no, you had to make it interesting. You had to make them motivated. You had to appeal to them in some way to like, take this seriously. And, and if you were, if you took the authoritarian approach, you'd, you'd lose them very easily. And I, I just wasn't equipped to do that. So I found out very, very quickly that I was going to be a, a very poor teacher, a very, uh, someone that couldn't hold their, their interest because I didn't really find mathematics and science, something that was so appealing to me at the time. I mean, I was good at it.

• 25:29Speaker 03

  I was skilled and I got degrees and I could teach it at a high school level. But I think with teenagers, you had to be motivated, you had to really believe it.

• 25:39AJ Gentile?

  You do. Yeah. And you've got to be tough.

• 25:42Speaker 03

  You can't fake that.

• 25:43AJ Gentile?

  No, you can't.

• 25:44Speaker 03

  You can't fake that.

• 25:45AJ Gentile?

  Did you carry some of those lessons over to being a host? About holding attention, making things, adding a little bit of show business, a little drama to a story?

• 25:57Speaker 03

  Totally. I mean, what I learned was that you have to believe in what you're doing.

• 26:01AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 26:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, you have to really feel that what you're doing is so important and you're committed to it. And, and so that's what I learned from that high school experience, that you can't fake it. You can't do something that you don't totally believe in. And, and this whole exopolitics journey that I've been on since 2001, it's 25 years now. You, you can't fake something if you don't believe it, if you don't believe that you're doing researching or teaching or doing interviews on something that you feel to be profound

• 26:42Speaker 03

  and life-changing and tremendously value, valuable to the planet and to people, that you have to believe that to your core.

• 26:52AJ Gentile?

  You do.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  You have to feel that. And if, and if you don't do that, you don't last. I mean, people, you know, nowadays, maybe you can come along and fake it and make a lot of money.

• 27:03AJ Gentile?

  You can do that, but we see through that as the public. I think authenticity and sincerity, large audiences can see that, they can feel that. And that's, you know, it's one of the things I like about you is when you change your mind, you admit it.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 27:22AJ Gentile?

  So, and that reminds me, you talked about Gandhi and Martin Luther King nonviolence. You, I think you published a paper in 96 that there is no nonviolent future. You'd just come back from Pristina. Remember that paper?

• 27:42Speaker 03

  Pristina Kosovo?

• 27:43AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 27:44Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 27:45AJ Gentile?

  So, so you, I mean, so what killed the Gandian in you that you didn't see a nonviolent?

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Well, at that time, I was still very much committed to the nonviolent.

• 27:59AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 28:00Speaker 03

  Path. And in Kosovo at that time, there was a nonviolent resistance movement. And I was tremendously impressed by the resistance of the Albanian minority in Kosovo to nonviolent, to a nonviolent solution, that they were so disciplined.

• 28:19AJ Gentile?

  It really had to be there because it was so violent.

• 28:23Speaker 03

  Because there were Serb paramilitaries there that were just ready to like start ethnic cleansing.

• 28:30AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 28:30Speaker 03

  I mean, that's, that's what it was. And I was there. I went to Pristina and I saw that. And, and they were very, very, they were very disciplined. They eschewed violent resistance. And so they set up their own school system. They set up their own economic system. They set up their own way of regulating the population or organizing the population. And, and interestingly, they taught only the Albanian language rather than Serbian,

• 29:08Speaker 03

  which was a very big move because it meant that the younger population that were growing up under this nonviolent resistance, they didn't learn the language of Serbia, which was at the time supposedly in charge of Kosovo.

• 29:26AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  Because of the breakup of Yugoslavia and, and they ended the autonomous status of the Albanians.

• 29:33AJ Gentile?

  Is this the Milosevic regime?

• 29:35Speaker 03

  That's right, yeah.

• 29:36AJ Gentile?

  Did he, and did he, how did he allow schools to be formed?

• 29:41Speaker 03

  Well, it was very interesting because up until 1988 Kosovo was an autonomous republic of the former Yugoslavia. So they had their own education system, health system, judiciary, police. They had, they had, they ran it themselves. And then Milosevic came in and he kind of just threw out this new narrative that Serbs are being violently suppressed and harassed in Kosovo. And the Serbian officials in charge of Serbia proper at the time, he was an old time socialist. He said, well, this is nonsense. The Serbs are being treated well.

• 30:24Speaker 03

  There's no problem in Kosovo. But Serbia, but Slovenian Milosevic, he used that to maneuver himself into power in Serbia. So he became the president. So he replaced the old socialist president. And now all of a sudden Kosovo was like this place where Serbs are being harassed and being intimidated and their churches destroyed. And so he justified moving in and taking over all of Kosovo's institutions. So now the police, the judiciary, all of the education system, the health system supposedly was transferred over to Serbia's control.

• 31:05Speaker 03

  But the people that were running those systems said, no, we're not going to work with you.

• 31:10AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 31:11Speaker 03

  And that's, and that's how the nonviolent resistance took off. And there was a, the Albanian population of Kosovo were fortunate that they had a leader, Ibrahim Rogova, who was a Shakespearean scholar, you know, he's Muslim, but he was a Shakespearean scholar and he believed in Gandian nonviolence. And he said, this is the way to go. We need to resist the Serbs nonviolently and make it a Gandian struggle. And that's what he did. And he got tremendous support from the West, especially the US. They supported that. And things began to unravel in 1999, when all of a sudden there was this shadowy group called the Kosovo Liberation Army that just kind of came up.

• 31:55AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  And they were like really into armed struggle and they had lots of weapons and, and there's a whole story as to how, how they got those weapons. And, and they were, they were wanting to fight. And of course then that led to the NATO intervention and we know the story. But up until that time Kosovo was, was all about nonviolent resistance. But then in 1999, it shifted to this armed struggle dominated by the KLA. And the nonviolent resistance kind of like was subsumed by the, by the violence that just escalated really, really quickly. First in the rural areas and then in the urban areas of Pristina.

• 32:38Speaker 03

  So yeah, so ultimately after all of that, after what happened in Kosovo, after what happened in East Timor, I got disillusioned with the whole nonviolent resistance. And by 2000, 2001, I was looking at other ways in which I could help solve international conflict. And so I was looking at, well, could the US come up with humanitarian intervention? Could the, could the US be a force for good in terms of like a moral cycle that there

• 33:19Speaker 03

  was, if you look at US foreign policy, that it goes through cycles of, like a hero's journey? So I looked at those things. And then in 2001, that's when I stumbled onto the whole ETXO politics phenomenon and I got hooked really, really quick.

• 33:40AJ Gentile?

  You got hooked on May the 9th, 2001?

• 33:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:44AJ Gentile?

  So the infamous, it's not infamous, the famous, the press club that run by Dr. Greer?

• 33:50Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 33:51AJ Gentile?

  And boy, everybody was on there. Carl Wolf, Carl Wolf had a great story. Do you remember where you were when you, when you watched that? You know how everyone's got that jar for spare change? Coffee's $4.65, you round up to $5 and 35 cents goes in the jar. Cash App does the same thing with roundups, except instead of loose coins collecting dust, that spare change buys Bitcoin. Every swipe rounds up, every roundup turns into a tiny Bitcoin purchase. It's about the laziest way to build a Bitcoin stack I could think of. It just runs quietly in the background while you live your life. Stable coins have made crypto more practical for a lot of people. They're fast, familiar and easy to understand as digital dollars. Bitcoin has a different role.

• 34:36AJ Gentile?

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• 35:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I was still teaching, I was a

• 35:20AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, because you were at university.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  Assistant professor, yeah. I was teaching at American University and I watched that press conference on video, the video replay of that. And I listened to all of those witnesses, the 21 witnesses Greer had on there. And because I'd done so much field work, you, you develop a sixth sense for when people are lying and telling the truth. And I could tell these were people telling the truth as best as they could reveal it. And they were scared, a lot of them were scared.

• 35:52AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 35:53Speaker 03

  I mean, some of the people were so frightened that they wouldn't even testify. That Daniel Salter, for example,

• 35:59AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 36:00Speaker 03

  was one person that was supposed to testify, but he didn't because he was so frightened of what would happen to him. And I could see that. It was like when I interviewed that priest in East Timor that was frightened of what would happen when I left. I could see that same desire to tell the truth, but also the fear of the consequences for telling the truth in a lot of those witnesses. And I knew they were telling the truth, knew it straight away. And it, it just rocked my world because here I am teaching international politics to graduate students at American University. They were paying $30,000 a year. We're supposed to be giving these students the best education possible about what's

• 36:42Speaker 03

  really driving international conflict. And when I saw that press conference, I realized that there's a whole dimension that's being ignored here. We've got to look at all of this to really understand the dynamics of international conflict. And so that's when my research just took a very different turn. And at first I was very naive. I thought that, well, university being a place of truth telling and independent research or academic research, scholarship and all of those fine things that people would support this, of course they would.

• 37:23Speaker 03

  But they would have to support something revealing, something revealing these hidden truths, but I found the opposite.

• 37:30AJ Gentile?

  Well, how did you broach that? How did you first broach that? You, so you watched the press conference, you're blown away like we all were. You go to work and what? Knock on your boss's door and say, I want to start bringing some of this into the curriculum?

• 37:46Speaker 03

  Exactly. That's what happened.

• 37:48AJ Gentile?

  And you thought he'd be excited?

• 37:49Speaker 03

  I thought he'd be supportive because he had been supportive in every other thing I'd done while at American University.

• 37:58AJ Gentile?

  Well, Kosovo is a whole different place than Dark Fleet. I mean, this is very, this is very new.

• 38:03Speaker 03

  I guess so.

• 38:04AJ Gentile?

  So did you leave that meeting, I guess would have been a meeting, just sort of disheartened?

• 38:09Speaker 03

  Well, it began in a very encouraging way. I was told that, okay, as long as I could do this in a way where I would not bring disrepute to the university and make it clear that this was my personal interest, that that would be okay. So that was the, that was the agreement I had reached with the people in charge of the program I was involved in at the time at American University. But that changed when The Washington Post did a feature article on me in February 2004.

• 38:49AJ Gentile?

  But before that article, you had, you had the press club listed on your favorite links on your faculty page.

• 38:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 38:57AJ Gentile?

  I mean, I mean, you were, you were rebelling against the institution already.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  Right, yeah. And I was talking to other faculty members and saying, this is what's going on. What, what do you think? And, and I was being told by other faculty members that, yeah, we, we think something like that, like that's going on, but we don't want to risk our careers.

• 39:19AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 39:20Speaker 03

  And so I found that support there. I, I did contact Stephen Greer back in 2001 and I got to meet him through a, an intermediary. And we agreed that I would host him at American University. I thought I would organize an event with Stephen Greer. So I booked the hall and I was working out everything with Stephen Greer. And, and then eventually the university or my boss learned that I was going to be doing this work and, and doing more related to this UFO field. And he said, no.

• 40:02AJ Gentile?

  He said, no.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  We don't want you to associate the university in any way with this. Just make it your own personal interest and keep it completely separate to your university activities. So I was told to just

• 40:18Speaker 03

  Stay away from it, not associate it with the university.

• 40:21AJ Gentile?

  You must have been aware of, of Dr. Mack and Harvard at that point about, because what they did to him.

• 40:28Speaker 03

  That's right. Yes, I was aware. And at that time, I was very interested in meeting Dr. Mack.

• 40:37AJ Gentile?

  Yeah. Did you ever get a chance to meet him?

• 40:40Speaker 03

  I didn't. Apparently, and this is anecdotal, I was told that he had a copy of my book on his desk and he was going to read it and, and that would have led to us meeting at some point or talking at the very least. But then he gets mysteriously hit by a truck in England.

• 40:58AJ Gentile?

  In England.

• 40:59Speaker 03

  And he's gone.

• 41:00AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm. That's right. Stepping off a curb.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  So that was very sad. So yeah, that was, those were difficult years from 2001, you know, to 2004, when, when I was trying to keep a foot in the door of academia and, and do my best to bring this into my, into the program I was trying to introduce at American University. But the more I looked into it, the more real it became, the less I could ignore it. But the more resistance I found.

• 41:33AJ Gentile?

  Of course. What were you supposed to be teaching? Political science?

• 41:37Speaker 03

  I was supposed to be setting up a peace ambassador program. So in 2004, sorry, 2000, March of 2004, I was supposed to set up a peace ambassador program, training people for how to promote peaceful resolution of conflicts around the world. And, and so that's what I was supposed to be doing. But as I'm doing research into that, I'm finding out that, well, there's this whole level of suppression concerning UFOs, extraterrestrial life. We need to talk about this, so let's bring this into the curriculum.

• 42:17AJ Gentile?

  Well, it makes sense because it's a first contact story. An ambassador for peace tracks with first contact, I would think. The skills are the same, yes?

• 42:26Speaker 03

  Exactly. It's like you're going to be meeting with extraterrestrial visitors and you're going to somehow mediate a solution to the conflicts that exist between the off-world visitors and our, our planet. And, and of course, you know, there are many conflicts involving that that's occurring. And so I wanted to start teaching that, but the university hierarchy that I was working through at the time didn't want anything to do with that. And so I eventually was told that the program would end

• 43:09Speaker 03

  after this story came out in The Washington Post.

• 43:12AJ Gentile?

  Yeah. And, and they told you, I think by a phone call, you didn't even get a courtesy meeting, got a phone call.

• 43:20Speaker 03

  I was threatened in that phone call.

• 43:22AJ Gentile?

  You were threatened?

• 43:23Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:23AJ Gentile?

  By the university?

• 43:25Speaker 03

  I was threatened by the deputy head of the center that I was studying in, that if The Washington Post put out an article and that it in any way portrayed the Center for Global Peace in an unfavorable light, then I would not have my position renewed and the program would be canceled. And I thought the story was very balanced when it did come out. Peter Carlson from The Washington Post, I thought he, I didn't think he was being disrespectful.

• 43:58AJ Gentile?

  I don't think so either.

• 43:59Speaker 03

  He was, he just brought up both sides.

• 44:01AJ Gentile?

  It wasn't a hit piece.

• 44:02Speaker 03

  Argument. Yeah, it didn't. But the university said, no, this is something that brings disrepute to us.

• 44:08AJ Gentile?

  Even positive coverage of that topic, they don't want.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  That's right. And that was another big shock to me because I always assumed as an academic that when you have a major newspaper, a, a paper of the record, like The Washington Post, covering your research, that's something to be celebrated.

• 44:28AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  That's an achievement. Most academics would love something like that to happen because your research is being recognized, many thousands, hundreds of thousands of people read about it.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  But that wasn't the case. It actually really torpedoed my university career at the time. And, and I really had no future after that in, in university. And I, I found that it wasn't just the university department, it was also peer reviewed journals. Like I wrote a paper explaining the need for exopolitics, this new field that I thought had to be created for this discipline. And this journal, the Journal for Peace Research, that I had actually published for previously, they, they had published one of my articles and I had actually been a peer review, a peer review referee.

• 45:18AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  So the editor knew me. He, he wouldn't even pass on my article to, to the reviewers. He said, no, this is not something we at, in any way are going to publish in the Journal for Peace Research. And, and that was my case for why this exopolitics research deserved to be studied in, in peace research.

• 45:44AJ Gentile?

  It's something I think most people don't know about you is that before all of this, you were published, you were very active in that community, you did go to these places, you did teach, you did do all of these things before that, that disclosure conference.

• 45:59Speaker 03

  Right, yeah. And I was being interviewed by major media.

• 46:02AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 46:03Speaker 03

  The BBC would interview me regularly. I was on MSNBC at the time, media appearances. So I was getting that exposure because I was an expert on East Timor and Kosovo and those were very hot topics.

• 46:16AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 46:17Speaker 03

  But once this issue came up and I made that my, the focus then. And, but once the university career ended, then it became very hard to get any kind of mainstream media attention.

• 46:32AJ Gentile?

  Sure, that in 2004, certainly. I've heard you say that you think that you might have been set up with that article. Do you still feel that?

• 46:41Speaker 03

  I do wonder about that.

• 46:42AJ Gentile?

  Like who would set you up? The university?

• 46:46Speaker 03

  Whoever it was was very, very subtle, very, very sophisticated.

• 46:50AJ Gentile?

  Because it wasn't a hit piece.

• 46:52Speaker 03

  It wasn't. It was, it was done in a way that was really making my research known to a very wide audience. And the condition for me staying at the university was that I needed to keep this as a private interest and keep it separate to the university. And, and that worked as long as I wasn't known publicly, but once.

• 47:18AJ Gentile?

  But then you went on Coast to Coast, didn't you?

• 47:21Speaker 03

  Yes, George Norrie would read me on Coast to Coast.

• 47:24AJ Gentile?

  That's not flying under the radar to, to Coast because I think you did that in 2003.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  Yes, he had me on that.

• 47:31AJ Gentile?

  You're still at AU then. I, I think you did The Edge, you did Mysteries of the Mind, these are radio shows. While you were still at AU. Did, did anyone at work come up to you and, and say, hey, I heard you're on Norrie the other night?

• 47:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's funny. I, I never got any pushback.

• 47:49AJ Gentile?

  No?

• 47:50Speaker 03

  For being on any of those shows.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  It was only The Washington Post because that was, that I think really got out there to a mainstream audience. Whereas I guess Coast to Coast, The Edge, those other shows were kind of like a fringe audience.

• 48:03AJ Gentile?

  Coast had 10 million listeners. Did you ever get a chance to talk to Art?

• 48:08Speaker 03

  No, I didn't.

• 48:09AJ Gentile?

  What?

• 48:09Speaker 03

  Apparently, I was, I was going to be interviewed by him. And Heather Wade was the producer at the time. And so she lined it up. I was going to be interviewed by Art. This was when he moved to Midnight in the Desert.

• 48:22AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 48:22Speaker 03

  And just before the interview, like a couple of weeks, a few weeks before.

• 48:27AJ Gentile?

  I know what's coming.

• 48:28Speaker 03

  Art got threatened or his family got threatened and he said, I'm not going to do this anymore.

• 48:32AJ Gentile?

  He retired again.

• 48:33Speaker 03

  Exactly. And, and he turned it over to Heather Wade and Heather Wade's like, I can't do this. And he said, no, Art said, no, no, you can do it, you can do it. And so I was then interviewed by Heather Wade rather than Art Bell, which I, I really would have loved to have been interviewed by Art Bell because I think he would have been a great interviewer.

• 48:51AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 48:52Speaker 03

  He would have pushed me.

• 48:53AJ Gentile?

  Well, he came back to Sirius after midnight for a little while. And then he retired again. And I think then he went to YouTube to do Dark Matter and then retired again. I, I forget.

• 49:06Speaker 03

  But I remember Heather Wade was saying he was really freaked out.

• 49:09AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 49:10Speaker 03

  That, that they were, that they were threatening him and monitoring him.

• 49:15AJ Gentile?

  And on his property.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  On his properties. So yeah, I think they were really frightened of Art Bell. I think just because he had this enormous outreach and a loyal audience and he could affect or get millions of people to get on board with whatever guest or whatever issue he was putting out there. So I think they had to shut him down.

• 49:36AJ Gentile?

  I, I think so too. And sometimes I worry about that because he is by far the biggest influence on me and what I do is Art Bell, is his approach to these stories with curiosity and respect and never condescending, no matter how wild the story is, you never hear Art Bell call someone nuts or anything like that. He just lets them tell the story. That's what I do. And I don't believe most of the stories. I consider myself a skeptic. But I still enjoy them and I think they should be told respectfully.

• 50:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's something I really liked about Art Bell and it's unfortunate that I never got to do an interview with him. Would have really enjoyed that.

• 50:19AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I think we all would have enjoyed it.

• 50:25AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 50:29AJ Gentile?

  President Eisenhower.

• 50:32AJ Gentile?

  I love the story and I've covered the dentist, the Palm Springs. He was at Palm Springs. He disappears for a while. They say it's the dentist. I couldn't debunk that. I could not debunk this story. I couldn't say what happened. It's 1954, I think.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 50:50AJ Gentile?

  I couldn't. I don't know what happened. But you have some great theories on what happened to Eisenhower that day.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I did the research on President Eisenhower's meeting with the extraterrestrial ambassadors at Edwards Air Force Base. And I did an article.

• 51:09AJ Gentile?

  Well, did you find? Take us back to the. I mean, he's on the golf course or something. He gets ushered away. I think the Secret Service lost track of him

• 51:19AJ Gentile?

  for a while. Like for a full day, the president was. They didn't know where he was.

• 51:23Speaker 03

  He disappeared. That's a press call. Couldn't find out where he was.

• 51:28AJ Gentile?

  And his personal Secret Service detachment did not know where he was. Were you able to find out like how he got out of there?

• 51:36Speaker 03

  I did. I did eventually. Yeah. Because I found a whistleblower, Bill Kirkland, who was a medic with the US Air Force. And he was stationed at Norton Air Force Base in 1954. And he was a medic and he was called to the base in 1954 when President Eisenhower went missing that night. And he said that he saw Eisenhower arrive at Norton Air Force Base and then get on a plane to be taken to Edwards Air Force Base.

• 52:15AJ Gentile?

  Right, which is a pretty short flight.

• 52:16Speaker 03

  Exactly. And so he confirmed that Eisenhower had been taken to Edwards Air Force Base. And so that was confirmation when I came across Bill Kirkland's testimony. So this was after my initial research. Because at the time, I did the literature review. I found all these stories out there circulating out there. I found there was one.

• 52:44Speaker 03

  There was a widow of a MP who confirmed to me that her husband was at Edwards Air Force Base and Eisenhower showed up.

• 52:54AJ Gentile?

  I've read her testimony.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  And he went to a hangar and there was the body, the remains and so forth. But Bill Kirkland, he was the one that really kind of like anchored it for me because he was able to confirm that, yes, Eisenhower did go there.

• 53:11AJ Gentile?

  Well, that's his important testimony because that throws the dentist's story right out now. That's absolutely false because of Kirkland.

• 53:20Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 53:21AJ Gentile?

  So what? What did Eisenhower see there? And why did they feel the need to yank the president out of a vacation? Why was it so urgent, do you think?

• 53:33Speaker 03

  Well, the timing was very, very interesting because it was, I think, March 1st, which was the, gonna be the test of, I think it was the Bravo test, the thermonuclear weapon. And so the meeting at

• 53:47AJ Gentile?

  That's right, the Castle program.

• 53:48Speaker 03

  Edwards Air Force Base. That happened 10 days or just under 10 days. So somewhere in that window before the Bravo test of the hydrogen bomb that was being launched by the Eisenhower administration, that the previous test, I think it was called Ivy Mike, happened under the Truman administration. And that happened just before Eisenhower got elected. So it was like locked him into the nuclear weapons program.

• 54:22AJ Gentile?

  Yes. That wasn't a hydrogen bomb, though, I don't think.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  The first one, 52, just before the 52 election, it was the very first thermonuclear weapon. It was a test under the Truman administration, which locked the Eisenhower administration on a path. Because I think that what happened was that, you know, this is my understanding of the events was that the people that were against the development of thermonuclear weapons knew that Eisenhower, because of his status, had the ability or the status to be able to say no to that. And so they decided that they would fast track it under Truman so that by the time Eisenhower was elected,

• 55:11Speaker 03

  it was a fait accompli that the United States was testing hydrogen bombs. So the first test under Truman was the test of a device. So it wasn't an actual bomb. But the 54 test that was scheduled to happen, I think it was March 1st, was scheduled to happen, that was the Bikini Atoll, 15, what was it? 15 megatons?

• 55:43AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 55:43Speaker 03

  But it was actually 60 megatons.

• 55:45AJ Gentile?

  It was way more than they expected.

• 55:47Speaker 03

  Exactly. And so

• 55:49AJ Gentile?

  That's when aliens are like, okay, that, enough. Now we have to get involved. Enough with this.

• 55:56Speaker 03

  And that gives a rationale for why Eisenhower was called to go to Edwards Air Force Base a week or 10 days before the first test of a nuclear device at the Bikini Atoll. Because the beings that would be influenced by that, the extraterrestrials, were really appealing to him not to go forward with this, that this would be very, very dangerous.

• 56:24AJ Gentile?

  So this is a meeting that happens at the hangar at Edwards?

• 56:28Speaker 03

  It happened at Edwards Air Force Base. And there were many accounts. Mead Lane

• 56:34AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 56:34Speaker 03

  talked about that, that meeting. And he talked about the group of wise men that were assembled along with Eisenhower to meet with. You know, they called them the Etherians. And they landed and that they had the meeting. And there was this tremendous ontological shock suffered by all of the people that were there, the military people that saw what was going on. But Eisenhower was surrounded by a national security team that were very much on board with nuclear weapons development.

• 57:10AJ Gentile?

  Absolutely, they were. When he gave his military industrial complex speech, he got a lot of flak from his team over that. So what did the aliens look like in 54 to Ike? And what was the

• 57:25AJ Gentile?

  exchange they wanted to? What was the deal they offered? Didn't they say, all right, you stop nuclear weapons and here's what we'll give you? What was the offer? And what did they look like?

• 57:35Speaker 03

  Right. Well, according to Mead Lane and others that talked about the meeting, the appeal was to stop nuclear weapons, that these are very, very dangerous weapons. And that if the United States went down that path of prescribing thermonuclear weapons, that they would help, the extraterrestrials would help with spiritual knowledge and help the situation get kind of more peaceful on planet Earth. And that just did an appeal to Eisenhower's national security team.

• 58:15AJ Gentile?

  But Lockheed doesn't need that. Raytheon doesn't need spiritual awakening.

• 58:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:20AJ Gentile?

  They need airplanes.

• 58:22Speaker 03

  Well, there were a lot of scientists, prominent scientists, Oppenheimer, for example,

• 58:27AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 58:28Speaker 03

  that were opposed to nuclear fusion, thermonuclear weapons. They were totally opposed to those weapons systems.

• 58:37AJ Gentile?

  So was Einstein. So was Einstein, though. I think 40 or 50 of them signed that letter.

• 58:43Speaker 03

  And this is where it gets very interesting because you have to ask yourself, well, of those prominent scientists that really tried to prevent the development of thermonuclear weapons, many of them have been linked with extraterrestrials. Oppenheimer and Eisenhower. So Oppenheimer and Einstein in particular were responsible for writing a research paper on establishing diplomatic relations with extraterrestrials. That's one of the majestic documents that had been released.

• 59:19AJ Gentile?

  Yes, that's right. I have questions about that, about those documents.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  Right. So that's one of the documents that's out there. But I believe that the scientists that were opposed to thermonuclear weapons, they were being influenced in some way by the extraterrestrials to take that very strong stance.

• 59:39AJ Gentile?

  What did the extraterrestrials look like? Are these

• 59:42Speaker 03

  Human looking.

• 59:43AJ Gentile?

  Are these the Nordics?

• 59:44Speaker 03

  These are the Nordics. These were the ones that looked very much like us. And they were very different to the group that met with Eisenhower the following year, Holloman Air Force Base, which is not as well known, that meeting. But it happened about a year later. And Bill Kirkland, again, turns out to be a key witness to this because he was stationed at Holloman Air Force Base. So he released his DD 214. So I have a copy of that and I have made that available.

• 1:00:19AJ Gentile?

  So you know where he's, you know he was there.

• 1:00:21Speaker 03

  He was stationed at Holloman Air Force Base.

• 1:00:23AJ Gentile?

  Was that

• 1:00:24Speaker 03

  His DD 214.

• 1:00:25AJ Gentile?

  And that was a landing, wasn't it?

• 1:00:27Speaker 03

  Another landing. And this time it was a, he described three craft that arrived at Holloman Air Force Base. One of the craft landed, the other two hovered in the vicinity.

• 1:00:39AJ Gentile?

  There's video of this.

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  That's where it gets very interesting because there apparently was another incident in nineteen sixty-four. And people get the two confused.

• 1:00:49AJ Gentile?

  It's that one. It's that one because it's, yeah, it's because it's color. You're right. It's sixty-four.

• 1:00:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, the sixty-four incident is a different one because the Bill Kirkland incident, he described that in fifty-four. He was there and there have been other witnesses who Art Campbell did a lot of really pioneering research on finding some of the other witnesses that saw Eisenhower's plane land at Holloman Air Force Base.

• 1:01:19Speaker 03

  And so there was this landing at Holloman. Eisenhower went to a large hangar where people were assembled. Airmen were assembled and gave some address. And then he met with the extraterrestrials and they were described as grays, tall grays.

• 1:01:41AJ Gentile?

  Tall grays.

• 1:01:42Speaker 03

  That's right, a different group, a different group to the ones that he met at Edwards Air Force Base.

• 1:01:49AJ Gentile?

  Because you would think the Nordics are probably easier to digest ontologically, right? Because they're more human looking.

• 1:01:58Speaker 03

  They'd be the ones that probably people would not feel too shocked by being in the presence of. But the ones at Holloman, these were the tall grays. And some people connect them to the Germans. So that's another aspect to that Holloman Air Force Base. So that's going to be a really interesting historical question as we learn more of what really happened. But the fifty-five incident, I think, is one that was very important because that appears to be when agreements were reached. And there have been people that talked about the Grenada Agreement.

• 1:02:41Speaker 03

  I mean, you're probably aware of Phil Schneider. I'm sure you, I think you actually did a show on Phil Schneider.

• 1:02:47AJ Gentile?

  I did. Phil Schneider, the underground base, he's the Dulcie Base whistleblower.

• 1:02:52Speaker 03

  Exactly, yeah. So he's a very interesting witness right there.

• 1:02:56AJ Gentile?

  And he's another, uh, suicide.

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, six months after he came out, he suicides. And so, so I think that there is a very interesting sequence of meetings. And it's very interesting that there was a document that was released that was leaked, another alleged Majestic document. And this is based on a Defense Intelligence Agency briefing to an incoming

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  member of the Majestic Twelve group, which, and I did, well, the person who did the most research on this was Dr. Bob Wood. And he was the former McDonnell Douglas scientist. And he did the most research on that DIA document and he thought it was very authentic. And from what I found, it was very authentic. And that document talked about a meeting, or that document talked about the nineteen forty-eight Aztec crash. And that one of the surviving aliens that was human looking, not very tall, was a guest of the Truman administration for a year

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  and set up the foundation for future diplomatic agreements. And that he, when he left, so we assume nineteen forty-nine he left, that the agreement was, a tentative agreement had been reached. And that was something that culminated in maybe the nineteen fifty-four meeting at Holloman. But very interesting was that in that nineteen eighty-nine document, it talks about three extraterrestrial infants being left behind to be raised by humans.

• 1:04:51Speaker 03

  And another interesting thing was that the extraterrestrials said that, well, we're going to have to do the same in the Soviet Union because there's a reciprocity that we follow here.

• 1:05:02AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:05:06AJ Gentile?

  What do you think was negotiated at that fifty-four meeting?

• 1:05:09Speaker 03

  I think the fifty-four meeting was unsuccessful. I think Eisenhower-

• 1:05:14AJ Gentile?

  Another attempt to stop the nuclear weapons? Because the Soviets, I don't think have tested yet in fifty, I think the first was fifty-seven.

• 1:05:21Speaker 03

  That's right, something like that. There was the Atoms for Peace Initiative that Eisenhower launched in nineteen fifty-three. And I think Eisenhower was

• 1:05:33Speaker 03

  being influenced by those groups. I mean, we know the scientists that were against thermonuclear weapons. And he was wanting to put all nuclear weapons research under the control of the United Nations. And that the weapons would be prescribed and that nuclear energy would be used for peaceful purposes. That was the proposal, the Atoms for Peace proposal. But that came out at the same time as Joseph Stalin died. And so the new collective presidency of the Soviet Union were too frightened

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  to go along with this because each was afraid that, well, if they agreed with the Americans, that others would look at them as betraying the Soviet Union or making the Soviet Union weak. That the Soviet Union had to develop its own nuclear weapons. And so they, you know, they continued on their path to developing nuclear weapons. And so they ultimately ignored the Atoms for Peace.

• 1:06:39AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I just covered the history of the Soviet UFO program and it's intense and it's real. Going back to forty-five, I think they started their program. So that's pre-Roswell. And they had their own crashes. They had their own situation where they see a craft over a nuclear missile base and all the equipment shuts down, just like what happened with the Minuteman missiles. And I think it was sixty-seven to us.

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  That's right. The Soviets have a long history of UFO crashes and-

• 1:07:11AJ Gentile?

  Retrieval.

• 1:07:12Speaker 03

  And studying the craft and trying to reverse engineer them. And I don't think they were as successful as the United States.

• 1:07:19AJ Gentile?

  No, I don't think so. And for people listening, you can look into Sokolov. George Knapp went and talked to-

• 1:07:29Speaker 03

  Boris Sokolov, yes.

• 1:07:31AJ Gentile?

  Has a lot of great information. You met him?

• 1:07:34Speaker 03

  I did, in Italy. Very interesting guy. He wasn't very supportive of my thesis that Eisenhower had met with extraterrestrials, saying, "Well, that's nonsense." And he had this very gruff, kind of like Russian approach, like, "Oh, nonsense, son. No way that could have happened. We would know about it." It's like, very interesting Colonel.

• 1:07:54AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, he's, yeah, I love, I love his story. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back. And I have questions about telepathy. We have to jump around a little bit because I have to ask some of the questions that the audience wants me to ask.

• 1:08:09Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:08:09AJ Gentile?

  Which, of course, I want to know.

• 1:08:14AJ Gentile?

  What do you make about, what do you think about the nineteen fifty-two book? Nineteen fifty-two visit story, Strangers at the Pentagon? Remember that one? That's the Valley at War story, which I don't fully buy. But there's some stuff in that book that's interesting and I think it happened, that's the same year as the UFO flap over Washington.

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  Frank Strangers?

• 1:08:37AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:08:37Speaker 03

  Stranger at the Pentagon, yeah. He's a very interesting guy. I actually went and visited him at his office and we actually had him come out to Hawaii for a conference as well.

• 1:08:48AJ Gentile?

  Wow. What was he like?

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  He was, you could feel something different about him. There was this very gentle, very highly evolved presence to him. So we knew that he was very genuine and very significant in some way. And he struck me as the sort of person that would be a contactee, that would meet with extraterrestrials. And that was something I could feel in him.

• 1:09:21AJ Gentile?

  His work was very hopeful.

• 1:09:23Speaker 03

  It was, he was a reverend and he also had a background in law enforcement, which gave him a lot of legitimacy. But the paradox I had with him from the very get-go was that I was sat in his office and he had a lot of certificates on his office wall, you know, PhD degrees and all of that. And, you know, being a PhD myself, I was very interested. So I took photos of some of these and then I checked them out.

• 1:09:55AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 1:09:56Speaker 03

  I checked them out. And they were fake.

• 1:09:58AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 1:10:00Speaker 03

  And that was the paradox. It was like, what the F is going on with this guy? I mean, he felt authentic and he had this incredible story, but he's displaying fake certificates.

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  The way I could reconcile it in my mind was that somehow he's pressured to do this.

• 1:10:21AJ Gentile?

  Pressured from?

• 1:10:23Speaker 03

  That that was the condition for him to be able to do the work, to be able to reveal what's going on. And that is something that I had come across earlier on in my career. That anyone, whether it is in this field of ufology or in any kind of conspiracy genre. If you are the real deal, you need to discredit yourself. You need to have something in your past or something around you that can lead you to be easily discredited. Otherwise, you'll be killed or removed from the scene. And that was how I reconciled it.

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  I thought, well, okay, this guy feels like the real deal. His story is amazing. And he's really got an impressive background. But he's got these fake university degrees on his wall. And it's like anyone that does basic, your basic due diligence will find out that these aren't, these aren't real.

• 1:11:27AJ Gentile?

  So do you discount his story after learning that?

• 1:11:30Speaker 03

  Well, this is the, this is the key.

• 1:11:32AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:32Speaker 03

  It's like, you know, do you throw the baby out with the bathwater?

• 1:11:35AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:11:35Speaker 03

  And my approach has been no.

• 1:11:37AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:11:38Speaker 03

  Look at, look at that person, look at what they have to offer and understand that, well, it's possible that this person has displayed fake degrees on his wall because he is doing so because that is a condition for him to be able to operate and talk about these human looking extraterrestrials. And, and if you look at it from the perspective that this is one of the most tightly guarded secrets, the existence of these very highly spiritual, human looking extraterrestrials

• 1:12:19Speaker 03

  that have been interacting with us since Eisenhower and even earlier. And that contactees from the very beginning, people like George Adamski, Howard Manger and so forth, were deliberately targeted, discredited, made to look like hookers and scammers and grifters. That that was part of the program to prevent these human looking extraterrestrials being taken seriously. So here you have someone like Frank Strangers saying he met Valiant Thor at the Pentagon and.

• 1:12:55AJ Gentile?

  And his crew.

• 1:12:57AJ Gentile?

  And his whole crew.

• 1:12:58Speaker 03

  And, yeah, and the crew and then had contacts with him over the years. It's like, well, someone doing that would either be eliminated or if he is someone that does have a law enforcement background and is a reverend and someone that has very powerful protectors, that the agreement or the compromise was that, yes, you can talk about it, but you need to discredit yourself. And, and that right away, I mean, any researcher that looks at someone with a fake university degree hanging prominently on their wall. Is like, well, you're going to dismiss that guy and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

• 1:13:41AJ Gentile?

  Yeah. I have to be careful about that because I think I would have thrown it all away.

• 1:13:50AJ Gentile?

  Maybe I need to rethink my approach.

• 1:13:54AJ Gentile?

  You know, and, and looking into your work, it's made me want to rethink my approach a little bit and be a little more open minded.

• 1:14:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think there was this, as I recall, he was a Chip Tatum, as I recall, was someone that was involved in the whole drug running scheme for the CIA. And, and he said the same thing, that he had to discredit, that, and he, he was the one that introduced me to that idea that, that if you're the real deal, if you know this stuff, you need to discredit yourself publicly to stay alive.

• 1:14:30AJ Gentile?

  Why do you think human looking extraterrestrials don't reveal themselves? Or have they?

• 1:14:41Speaker 03

  Well, they have revealed themselves to private citizens and public authorities. But it's never been announced to the world through the mass media because the people who control the mass media don't want that information getting out.

• 1:15:00AJ Gentile?

  Why not?

• 1:15:02Speaker 03

  It would give people hope. It would give people.

• 1:15:06AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 1:15:07Speaker 03

  Spiritual knowledge that could detract from major religions. It would destabilize the, the current economic system whereby free energy would be something that would be real. Any gravity propulsion would be real. Holographic electromagnetic healing technologies are real. So these are the things that threaten the whole status quo and the, the elite, the military industrial complex.

• 1:15:42AJ Gentile?

  It's, it's almost a joke answer when people ask me when disclosure is going to happen. I tell them when we've run out of oil is when it happens. That's why there's no disclosure, because of oil. That's really all.

• 1:15:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:57AJ Gentile?

  What do you make of, because it reminded me of the 64 Holloman landing. That's, that's my favorite UFO video. That's my favorite one.

• 1:16:06AJ Gentile?

  And I've seen a lot of, I've seen a lot of good ones, a lot of bad ones. That one I love. That landing is attached to the Project Serpo story. I don't know if you know that one. That's the exchange program between this alien planet and the United States military. Do you think there's anything to that? That's, that's another Richard Doty story.

• 1:16:25Speaker 03

  Right. Well, I know the 64 meeting at Holloman and Robert Emanega being given the film and being promised the whole film to then be released in a documentary which he produced. But then at the end, they withdrew the film at the last moment. And, and apparently just a small piece of the film made its way into the documentary. So that's very interesting. Now the connection to the Project Serpo, very interesting. I always looked at Project Serpo very suspiciously because Richard Doty, Robert Collins.

• 1:17:04AJ Gentile?

  The, all the aviary guys.

• 1:17:06Speaker 03

  Those guys were very, very tricky. They were like trying to follow their arguments. And, and I, I knew Bill Ryan at the time. And he struck me as someone that was very credible. And, and he was very committed to the Project Serpo story and getting it out there and substantiating it. And I think Bill Ryan's a very competent person. So he thought there was something to it. But I always felt there was a significant amount of disinformation. So I kind of kept away from it. Just my sixth sense kept away from that one because I just felt this is, this has too much of the whole military intelligence community's hands all over it.

• 1:17:48AJ Gentile?

  That was my take on it as well. When I covered it, it's just, it just has too much of the lore wrapped into it. And when Doty's involved, suddenly it just gets really, really messy. Do, what do you make of him?

• 1:18:05AJ Gentile?

  He was, so he's air force intelligence. He does disinformation for a living, basically destroys Bill Moore's career. And now says most of what he said was true. The things he said to Linda Maldonha were true, the things he said to Benowitz were true.

• 1:18:22Speaker 03

  I think the things he said to Benowitz were substantially true. And that Benowitz did take photos or did intercept the electronic communications of

• 1:18:38Speaker 03

  whether they were extraterrestrials, whether they were part of a highly classified program out of Kirtland Air Force Base. That Benowitz was onto something. And I suspect that what happened was that Doty was, his, his job was to feed Benowitz a certain amount of disinformation or steer him in a certain direction that would exaggerate something that he already knew that, and this is the classic case of, well, you know, Benowitz. For example, Doty, sorry, Benowitz would find or in his communications,

• 1:19:19Speaker 03

  he would come up with a translation that, well, there's these great extraterrestrials at Dulcey Underground Base that are conducting human experiments. And there were firefights and all of these things. Well, Doty would take that information and exaggerate it. I mean, that's classic.

• 1:19:43Speaker 03

  How disinformation works.

• 1:19:45AJ Gentile?

  Classic counterintel.

• 1:19:46Speaker 03

  Exactly. You, you exaggerate it. And so you get the exaggerated version to be believed by the target. And that target then kind of gets subtly steered away from the substance of what they discovered. So, you know, and Paul Benowitz wrote, not Paul Benowitz, Paul Bishop wrote that book, Project Beta. And, and he totally dismissed Paul Benowitz and said, well, everything that Benowitz said was a product of Doty's disinformation. I, I wrote an extended critique of that book, Project Beta. And, and I disagreed with Bishop in that book.

• 1:20:29Speaker 03

  I, I thought that there was substantial truth in what Benowitz had found. And, and it matched what others were saying about this underground facility at Dulcey. And that there were underground.

• 1:20:45Speaker 03

  Projects being conducted there, that there were witnesses that had emerged from those projects that talked about biological experiments and humans being kept in cages.

• 1:20:58AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:20:59Speaker 03

  And that they were being horribly abused. That is one of the more unsavory aspects of the whole exopolitics field, that there are these humans that have been captured and maybe they've just taken off the streets, street kids or people that are homeless that are then taken into these underground facilities and no one misses them on the surface and they're just caged and used in biological experiments. And I suspect Benowitz had stumbled onto some of that and was putting out some of that information, but Doty's job was to discredit him and I think he did a really good job.

• 1:21:39AJ Gentile?

  He certainly did and I think he's still on the job. Um, you know, you talk about abductees, there is that part of the lore where a deal was made that aliens would be allowed to abduct American citizens in exchange for technology or whatever the story is. Do you think there a deal was made or do you think they're just snatching people?

• 1:22:03Speaker 03

  Oh, definitely a deal was made.

• 1:22:05AJ Gentile?

  A deal was made.

• 1:22:06Speaker 03

  I think that that's what happened at that meeting in 1955 at Holloman, deals were made. I mean, these were, Phil Schneider described it as the Griard treaty and began talking about the agreement of a certain number of humans were supposedly going to be abducted by the great aliens, but that turned out to be a lot more than the grays had agreed to. And, and that all kind of comes down to details, right? If you agree in principle that, yeah, you can abduct our people, just keep us informed. Well,

• 1:22:50AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:22:50Speaker 03

  They'll take that acceptance of the principle as, well, now it's just a detail, whether we abduct a hundred or whether we abduct a hundred thousand. I mean, it's just the detail, right?

• 1:23:01AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:23:01Speaker 03

  You've agreed that we can do this. And so this is what the grays did. And I think that that, that would actually be a way in which a very sophisticated galactic entity would operate with a very kind of new, innocent, naive race, that you would come up with these agreements where you get them to agree to a principle. And then once you've got them to agree to the principle, then you implement it.

• 1:23:33AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:23:34Speaker 03

  In, in the way you want.

• 1:23:36AJ Gentile?

  What are you gonna do about it?

• 1:23:37Speaker 03

  Exactly. What, what are you gonna do? They've abducted a hundred thousand rather than a hundred.

• 1:23:42AJ Gentile?

  Right. What, what, what did they give in exchange? Did they give technology?

• 1:23:49Speaker 03

  There've been a lot of witnesses and whistleblowers that talk about seeing grays at these facilities. I mean, Bill Uehaus talked about it.

• 1:24:00AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:24:01Speaker 03

  Even Bob Lazar says he got a fleeting image of a gray. Clifford Stone says he was taken to an underground facility at the Pentagon and he saw a gray. So there's just-

• 1:24:11AJ Gentile?

  Pat Price remote viewed Mount Hayes and saw grays in there with the military.

• 1:24:15Speaker 03

  Right. So there are many whistleblowers who have talked about these grays that are assisting the US military in some of these programs. And, and I think Bill Uehaus's description of the gray helping the US Air Force understand how the technology worked, how to reverse engineer it. I mean, he said that Bill Uehaus, former US Air Force, that was, uh, worked as a contractor, I think he was an electrical engineer by training

• 1:24:56Speaker 03

  and, and, and he was, said that they were setting up a simulation device for training future Air Force pilots how to fly these reverse engineered craft that they were working on. And so he, he said that whenever they struck a problem, they would bring it up the next time there would be a meeting with one of these grays that would come in and they would answer the questions, answer questions about, technical questions about how, how to reverse engineer this stuff, how to get a flight simulator to work for a pilot being trained to fly one of these reverse engineered craft. That was Bill Uehaus's job. So there

• 1:25:39Speaker 03

  are many good examples and Bill Uehaus is a very credible witness.

• 1:25:44AJ Gentile?

  He is.

• 1:25:45Speaker 03

  Military witness that this was going on.

• 1:25:47AJ Gentile?

  Do you think deals were made with China, Russia and other countries as well?

• 1:25:52Speaker 03

  I'd say that was definitely the case.

• 1:25:55AJ Gentile?

  You think so? I mean, because how, you've got the Nordics who wanted to keep parity between the superpowers, but then there's no Soviet Union anymore. Are, you know, are they giving the technology to other countries?

• 1:26:15Speaker 03

  I think that would have been one of the ways that the grays, the reptilians, insectoids would have operated. I mean, I've interviewed a very prominent Russian researcher, Anton Anvilov, PhD. He studied Russia's secret space program, history of crashed UFO craft. And he said that early on, the Russians found that there was a group of insectoids, the praying mantas.

• 1:26:50AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:26:50Speaker 03

  That had crashed and that they made contact and they had made deals and they began working with them. So the Russians were working with this group of insectoid. But what was interesting was that he said that what the Russians found was that these insectoids were indigenous to the earth, that they weren't off-world visitors. They were indigenous culture, going back many hundreds of thousands of years that had spacecraft or craft that were capable of flying off into space, but they were coming from the inner earth.

• 1:27:24AJ Gentile?

  Wow. I've heard, I've heard similar stories about the reptilians, that they're from the earth.

• 1:27:33Speaker 03

  Exactly. And that's where it gets complicated.

• 1:27:35AJ Gentile?

  It does.

• 1:27:36Speaker 03

  Because you, you have reptilians that are indigenous to earth that are to a certain extent sympathetic to surface humanity, but then you have this off-world group that people identify as draconian reptilians who are totally imperialistic and totally about control and manipulation and recruiting humanity as a mercenary force to conquer other worlds in other star systems and doing it in a, in a way that could not be stopped by other

• 1:28:17Speaker 03

  worlds that were maybe better organized in terms of collectives like a Galactic Federation or something like that. So if, for example, you have humanity being exploited by these Drakor reptilians whereby human mercenaries were being recruited and flying off into space to join the Drakor reptilians in the conquest of human populated worlds, that could be done in a way where the other organized, the human organizations, the Galactic Federation of worlds or whatever the organization is, would have to kind of like step aside and

• 1:28:58Speaker 03

  say, well, strictly speaking, this is a human on human conflict, right?

• 1:29:03AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  Cause the, the human mercenaries from earth are just being used as a proxy by the Drakor reptilians, but they still are humans from earth and they are like, we are conquering this other planet as part of our organization. And some people call that the dark fleet, the Nakwathan. And, and I think that's

• 1:29:26AJ Gentile?

  Well, before-

• 1:29:26Speaker 03

  Very plausible.

• 1:29:27AJ Gentile?

  I, I think so too. But how do we get, because people are listening and we can talk about craft and everything we talked about up until now, just about everybody's on board with. But once you go into the Dracos, the mantids, the Nordics, people get off the bus. I don't know how we keep them on the bus. I don't know how we keep that conversation going. I'm not asking for evidence. I'm just saying, what do we say to the people? How do you keep people more open-minded to new species?

• 1:30:00Speaker 03

  Well, we've got the witnesses, the contactees that have been talking about this for decades. But what's recently changed is that now you've had prominent scientists coming forward. Eric Davis, Hal Pudoff, Congressman Eric Burleson, Burchett, repeating that we know of four extraterrestrial civilizations visiting our world.

• 1:30:25AJ Gentile?

  David Grush just talked about the Nordics.

• 1:30:27Speaker 03

  And they have David Grush talking about Nordic cadaveras that were recovered at these crash sites that look beautiful and look like gods, like Greek gods. He's talking about reptilians who survived these crashes, going on a killing spree and they having to be killed by US special forces.

• 1:30:52AJ Gentile?

  I never heard that, going on a killing spree.

• 1:30:55Speaker 03

  Well, that they survived the crash and that they were killing humans. So that was what... Now, maybe this is a incorrect rendition of what Grush said. I mean, I just heard the interview once.

• 1:31:11AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:31:11Speaker 03

  And I put out a short segment of that interview where he talked about the reptilians that had survived these crashes. But they were apparently fighting and they were killing humans. And he talked about the reptilians fighting the grays.

• 1:31:33AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:31:33Speaker 03

  So maybe there was some... Maybe that was not something I got correct from the David Grush interview. But the fact is that Grush was saying that, from what he was told in these classified meetings from people in the know... So arguably, this is secondhand information. But Grush is now accepted as a very reliable witness. And...

• 1:32:00AJ Gentile?

  That's why hearing him say Nordics was shocking to me. And I don't trust the whistleblowers. I'm very open about that. From military intelligence, I don't trust them. I want to believe them, but I don't trust them. So when he said Nordics, that is... That was a big move, I think. That was a very big move because now you're getting into the conspiracy theory world, where all the skeptics are constantly attacking people like us, even just for discussing the stories. And now, if the Nordics are real, then you have to be open to all the other races. John Lear said that there were 70.

• 1:32:45Speaker 03

  I think John Lear is someone who's very underestimated in the UFO community.

• 1:32:52AJ Gentile?

  He was a contactee, I believe. And I don't think he knew it.

• 1:32:56Speaker 03

  But I came across his information and it matched with all of my other sources. But the really weird thing was he had this CIA connection. So I always kind of felt he was doing something with the information to make it look a little kooky, a little way out there. He would say things that I always found to be a little off-putting. So I thought he was credible with some of his information. But yet, again, it was like, well, is this a case of someone who's in the know and having to discredit himself? Bill Cooper was another one who was like that.

• 1:33:38Speaker 03

  I mean, he had an impeccable Navy pedigree and he put out a lot of information. And he talked about the 1954 meeting and the subsequent meeting. And he put out a lot of very interesting information. But then he would do things that would appear to discredit himself.

• 1:33:58AJ Gentile?

  He absolutely did. He would say wild things on the radio that would make him sound like a nut. And yet, he correctly predicts 9/11. He predicted his own death. He ends up and dies in a shootout in his front yard with the police. That's William Cooper, but hold a pale horse. So it's the same thing with all of these guys. There's always a fake diploma on the wall, so we don't know what's real.

• 1:34:23Speaker 03

  And that's why I take the approach that this is... Exopolitics is intelligence gathering. It's not science. It's not like a scientific experiment where if the data is inconsistent with your hypothesis, well, it's a failed experiment. You throw it out and you start again. Well, intelligence gathering is different. You're trying to find out, well, who are these beings that are visiting us? What are their motivations? What do we know? Well, these people claim to have met them. And you've got military whistleblowers saying that they saw them in these classified programs. How credible are they? So to my mind, this is an intelligence gathering exercise.

• 1:35:08Speaker 03

  And what you do is you assign levels of confidence. Well, I have a high degree of confidence that someone like David Grush's information is very, very credible. That someone else like Phil Schneider, who died six months after he revealed these things, I think that information is very, very credible. Someone like John Lear, I would give him a medium level of confidence. And Richard Doty, a low. But you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater because at the end of the day, you're intelligence gathering and you've got to look at all the data. And you've got to assign a numerical value to that in terms of the level of confidence you have. And then you can come up with some opinion.

• 1:35:52Speaker 03

  And that's how you do intelligence gathering. And that's more in line with political science.

• 1:35:57AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:35:58Speaker 03

  Because you don't have absolute certainty with a person's testimony. You have a high degree of confidence in that person, maybe. But you assign a level of confidence and you go with that. And if something happens... I mean, I've worked with quite a few whistleblowers and contactees that I thought were really credible. And then things happened. And then I have to walk away from them and dismiss them. Or maybe not dismiss them. But now I no longer have that high level of confidence in their testimony that I once did.

• 1:36:38AJ Gentile?

  Well, I want to ask you about that. So let's say you're supporting a whistleblower, contactee. You support their story and then it turns out that it's not true. What do you do with that information? Do you retract? You know, do we throw it away?

• 1:36:55Speaker 03

  Well, there's a good example. In 2008, there was this Lieutenant Commander for the US Navy, Richard Tillman. And initially, I began reporting on him as source A. And he talked about these classified meetings that were happening at the United Nations that were trying to work out how to reveal the existence of extraterrestrials. And so I met him in person in New York. And he had his thick manual with him, a photo album, showing all his photos of his Navy career as a fighter pilot. So you saw the jets and you saw his military credentials.

• 1:37:39Speaker 03

  He was wearing a full Navy uniform. He went to the Naval Warfare Station in Patuxent, in Virginia. And he met Dr. Matabee, who was working on a classified program. So he went on to the base on his own, met Matabee at this highly classified... So he was undoubtedly serving with the US Navy.

• 1:38:05AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:38:07Speaker 03

  But he's told me and he told the people I was working with at the time. He said, "If I ever get outed, I'm going to deny everything, just so you know." I never thought he would really do that. How could you deny everything? How could you put out all this information and then deny it all and say you made it up? He got outed. He got identified. So rather than being source A, he then gets identified... I think it was 2009. He got identified as Richard Tillman, Lieutenant Commander, US Navy. And so he denied it all. He went out and denied it. He said, "None of it is true."

• 1:38:49AJ Gentile?

  So now what do we do with that information?

• 1:38:52Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly. And this is again, do you throw out the baby with the bathwater? I just wrote an article clarifying what happened. And I said, "He has denied it all now, but he told us, back when he first revealed the information, that if he ever got outed, he would be forced to deny it all." And that's exactly what he did. And so I said, "Well, I think that these meetings really did happen, but he's denied it all now, so I just have to walk away from it."

• 1:39:33Speaker 03

  But there were others, like there was a French researcher, Gilles Laurent, who also confirmed from his French intelligence sources that the United Nations were having these meetings in 2008 to strategize how to reveal the existence of extraterrestrial life. But that's not confirmation. And so that whole enterprise had to be... I had to walk away from that. And people were saying, "Well, we told you Tillman, we told you source A was a fake." But to this day, I don't believe he was a fake. I think he really was Navy.

• 1:40:14Speaker 03

  But he had to deny what he had revealed. I guess that was the condition under which he first could come forward. Maybe his commander said, "Yeah, reveal this information as long as you're not publicly identified. And if you are, walk away from it, deny it."

• 1:40:35AJ Gentile?

  Or else what?

• 1:40:40Speaker 03

  He could be eliminated.

• 1:40:43AJ Gentile?

  Um, you've recently started naming JP.

• 1:40:48Speaker 03

  Jorge Papon, that's right.

• 1:40:49AJ Gentile?

  Jorge Papon, so we've been hearing about JP for years and now we know who he is, he has a website.

• 1:40:57AJ Gentile?

  His military record checks out.

• 1:41:00AJ Gentile?

  Water purification, I think he worked at Elgus, Elgus AFB.

• 1:41:05Speaker 03

  Eglin Air Force Base.

• 1:41:06AJ Gentile?

  Eglin AFB, okay, so that's, I think the nine six test wing is there, lots of high tech stuff goes on there.

• 1:41:15AJ Gentile?

  Has he been contacted by the military?

• 1:41:20Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, he was, well, he has a long history in terms of being contacted by the military going back to two thousand and eight, when he first had an experience with these human looking extraterrestrials in Brazil, he came to the United States, came back to the United States, his home, he lived at Tampa near MacDill Air Force Base at the time, and he was approached pretty soon after he got back and they wanted to know who he met, what he was told, what technologies he was working on, because he all of a sudden went from just being a musician, someone that would

• 1:42:00Speaker 03

  work on pools, that was how he supported himself as a musician, that he all of a sudden starts getting downloads for building these new technologies and so he starts getting monitored and, and so over the years, he gets military people defending him, we're your friend, tell us what's going on.

• 1:42:22AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:42:23Speaker 03

  And in two thousand and seventeen, he starts sending me photos of craft he's seeing near MacDill Air Force Base, flying triangle craft, rectangle shaped craft, he's sending me these photos and, and he was being encouraged to take those photos by people within the US Air Force.

• 1:42:46AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:42:46Speaker 03

  Covert operatives.

• 1:42:47AJ Gentile?

  Yes, I believe that.

• 1:42:48Speaker 03

  And, and he remembers actually, sometimes he remembers being on these craft and, and one craft in particular, that was a flying rectangle, he took a photo of it after being encouraged to take the photo of this flying rectangle craft and later on, he remembered being on the craft and he remembered seeing the insignia of, of the, the patch of Air Force Special Operations.

• 1:43:18AJ Gentile?

  So this is a military test craft?

• 1:43:23Speaker 03

  That was a craft that was operational, it wasn't a test craft, because.

• 1:43:29AJ Gentile?

  Right, I'm just, I mean, did humans build that?

• 1:43:32Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, totally.

• 1:43:33AJ Gentile?

  So that's reverse engineered from, so this, that's anti-gravity, that's zero point energy, that's the whole deal?

• 1:43:39Speaker 03

  That's right, so he's revealing this in two thousand and seven, in two thousand and seventeen and photos, giving me photos and I'm putting them out, they start getting circulated, the Tampa Times did an article on, on that, so they're starting to get circulated.

• 1:43:58Speaker 03

  And this is all coming out of MacDill Air Force Base, well, ju- it just so happens that MacDill Air Force Base gets hit by Hurricane Irma a month after JP starts revealing, sharing these photos with me. Hurricane Irma, okay, what is Hurricane Irma? Well, Irma is the German name for a war goddess.

• 1:44:20AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:20Speaker 03

  And allegedly, there's a directed energy weapon out of Antarctica that was steering this hurricane to MacDill Air Force Base.

• 1:44:31AJ Gentile?

  What do you think?

• 1:44:33Speaker 03

  I, I wrote about it at the time.

• 1:44:34AJ Gentile?

  I know.

• 1:44:35Speaker 03

  I thi- I think that it was, it was payback, it was like the deep state. This German breakaway element did not like this covert branch of the US Air Force revealing the existence of these anti-gravity technologies.

• 1:44:52AJ Gentile?

  I thought hurricanes were named in advance at the beginning of the season, could it be a coincidence?

• 1:44:58Speaker 03

  You could say that, that it was a coincidence.

• 1:45:02AJ Gentile?

  Or you could have just waited for H and said, now, now we're, now we're a go.

• 1:45:07Speaker 03

  It could have been.

• 1:45:08AJ Gentile?

  So what about the HARP then? HARP? HARP is a weird one for me, you know, even being on the skeptical side, that project doesn't make any sense, because it's this, it's this very small facility that got a, like a half a billion dollar budget and nobody knows where the money went.

• 1:45:28Speaker 03

  Well, Nick Beggidge wrote

• 1:45:29AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:45:30Speaker 03

  that really great book, Angels Don't Make This HARP, or something like that, I can't remember the exact title and, and he did really great research and I think he worked with a, a female researcher, Manning, I can't remember her full name, but he identified how that HARP facility was this directed energy weapons array that could be used to, for weather modification purposes and crowd control and doing all sorts of nefarious things. So he was saying that that was what the HARP facility out of Alaska was, was being used for and, and so apparently there are,

• 1:46:16Speaker 03

  there were a number of these HARP facilities all over the United States.

• 1:46:20AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:46:21Speaker 03

  And people who have done

• 1:46:25Speaker 03

  research on hurricanes and how they form, they

• 1:46:33Speaker 03

  often find a high level of activity of these HARP facilities around the time hurricanes are formed and, and steered and, and there's a, there's a physics behind this that you could heat up the ionosphere in a way that would steer a hurricane in a particular direction, so I do believe that these kinds of directed energy weapons, HARP facilities can be used to steer hurricanes, tornadoes, cyclones, whatever in a particular direction, so if you have a country or you have

• 1:47:15Speaker 03

  a particular state in the United States being troublesome or an Air Force facility doing things that you don't like, you just hit them with a hurricane and, and that'll, you know, you send a message that way.

• 1:47:31AJ Gentile?

  That'll teach him.

• 1:47:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, as far as JP

• 1:47:36AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:36Speaker 03

  is, is concerned and the connection to Eglin Air Force Base, you know, if I finish up, so

• 1:47:45Speaker 03

  in

• 1:47:47Speaker 03

  after two thousand and seventeen, we get the information out, Hurricane Irma, it's hits, he keeps on putting out photos of the craft he's seeing now, he's moved to Orlando, he's taking photos, but he's getting pressured, he's getting pressured all the time and he, and, and one of the things that was very clear was that, on the one hand, he had people that were Air Force operatives that were telling him, you know, take the photo and go here and and there were also these Nordic looking extraterrestrials that were also summoning him to different places and they would

• 1:48:29Speaker 03

  allow him to take photos of their craft and they were flying saucer craft and so that was something he did as well, he was taking photos of the Nordic spacecraft that he was witnessing.

• 1:48:41AJ Gentile?

  Why do they want that? I mean, I know the Air Force wants him to do it so he could be discredited, but why would the Nordics allow that? What do they want?

• 1:48:48Speaker 03

  They want him, or they wanted him to take these photos to prove or to show that the Nordics are very real, that they're visiting us, so he took photos of their craft, one of the craft landed, he was offered a ride, he, he met face to face with the Nordic, he was offered a ride, he said, when he was meeting with the Nordic, he had his camera on him, but it didn't work.

• 1:49:17AJ Gentile?

  Right, right.

• 1:49:18Speaker 03

  But once the Nordic got on the craft and left, then his camera worked, so he took photos of the craft and he also took photos of a craft where he said he saw two Nordics that you could see through the cockpit, so that's one of the, but it's, it's, resolution is not very good, so you really can't make it out, but, but that's interesting, but what I find very significant was that, so he's having these encounters, he's being encouraged by Air Force operatives to take photos,

• 1:49:55Speaker 03

  then he's told, and there were two incidents where he was taken by Air Force operatives to a location and the Air Force operatives dropped him off and said, go down there and take a look at that facility and what's happening there.

• 1:50:15Speaker 03

  And he goes there and some more senior officer

• 1:50:20Speaker 03

  looks at him and says, what, why are you here? Why the F are you here? You shouldn't be here, you're a civilian, F off. And JP said he had to go, he, he couldn't do it and this happened twice to him. And the Air Force operatives said, well, look, as long as you're a civilian, you're going to be denied access to certain things that we want you to see and we want you to talk about it, so you need to join the military. And, and if you join the military, you'll be protected as well from these other people that don't want you to reveal this information. So he joined the army in, in the two thousand and nineteen, he joins the army.

• 1:51:02Speaker 03

  He joins, it's, his MOS is a ninety-one J, which is water, water repair and all of that.

• 1:51:12Speaker 03

  But he's given training as a, as a, as a, as a, as a paratrooper, he's given, put through paratrooper training. He is, he gets a red beret, he's then stationed with this elite army unit, Seventh Special Forces Group at Eglin Air Force Base, which is an elite unit. I mean, these guys are the, you know, the army's special forces guys that go all over the world as part of Special Operations Command to do all these classified missions, so these are special forces guys, why would?

• 1:51:45AJ Gentile?

  Because JP, he didn't go through Ranger School or anything, right?

• 1:51:47Speaker 03

  He just did paratrooper training.

• 1:51:49AJ Gentile?

  And that's it, he got, he got a jump badge?

• 1:51:51Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly, so he gets the red beret, but he's not a, but he's not a green beret.

• 1:51:56AJ Gentile?

  No, no.

• 1:51:56Speaker 03

  Right, so that's clear.

• 1:51:58AJ Gentile?

  So why is he on these missions with these elite forces?

• 1:52:04Speaker 03

  So he gets assigned

• 1:52:05AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:52:06Speaker 03

  To Eglin Air Force Base.

• 1:52:09Speaker 03

  His regular job is working

• 1:52:12AJ Gentile?

  Cleaning the pools.

• 1:52:13Speaker 03

  Water systems and so forth. He gets text messages saying, show up at this place. And he shows up at that place. And there are covert operatives there that say, you've got to come with us on this mission. So then he goes off on this mission. So he does the mission.

• 1:52:34Speaker 03

  Comes back. And then he goes back to his regular job. And his regular commander doesn't know anything about what he's doing.

• 1:52:42AJ Gentile?

  He doesn't?

• 1:52:42Speaker 03

  He doesn't, no. So these missions are like four hours, six hours, 10 hours. But they're relatively short. So when he comes back, he just does his normal assignment. So this goes on for four, four and a half years.

• 1:52:55AJ Gentile?

  Well, who's directing these assignments? Who is he getting his orders from if not his CO?

• 1:53:03Speaker 03

  There's someone

• 1:53:04AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:53:05Speaker 03

  in the covert military that is assigning him to these missions. Now JP has a handler in the military. He's never identified who that handler is to me. He's just hinted at the, the, the rank of that officer. But that's a, but I can only guess. He's shown me where he, he meets him at Eglin Air Force Base. So we did, he did take me to that area. But apparently this is the guy that is coordinating the missions. So he's a senior air force officer retired. And apparently now he's working out of Washington DC after being stationed or being

• 1:53:49Speaker 03

  in some capacity, retired capacity at Eglin Air Force Base.

• 1:53:54AJ Gentile?

  What is special about Jorge? That he's chosen for this?

• 1:54:01Speaker 03

  So I think he's someone that has this unique energy. He's a very sweet guy, very, some would say very innocent, very gullible. But also there's a, there's a wisdom there. There's a, there's a knowledge there that it's like he, he knows things. He knows things like he has this intuitive knowledge of technologies or certain technologies. He knows how things works. And, and that's something that's come up again and again, in what he's described that he, he's put in these places.

• 1:54:39Speaker 03

  And he has an interaction with the technology, that the technology is alive or sentient in some way. And this is, this is very typical of extraterrestrial technologies or ancient technologies that they're not like our technologies. It's like this ship has a living consciousness.

• 1:55:01AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:55:02Speaker 03

  And it interacts with people. And so

• 1:55:07Speaker 03

  Jorge JP

• 1:55:10Speaker 03

  often interacts with that technology. He feels it. He knows how it works. He's very intuitive. And he's gifted in learning how the technology works. And sometimes he's trained in, in that. And you know, one of the, this is one of the crazier missions. It's like, he says that he was given weapons training. He was, he went on a mission. He was with other operatives. And he went on a mission and he went to a facility. And there was this very old feline looking being.

• 1:55:50AJ Gentile?

  Wow, okay.

• 1:55:51Speaker 03

  And, and this feline looking being gave each of the operatives this ring. A ring. And they put on the ring and depending on how they manipulated the ring, it would shoot off a bit, an energy beam that could destroy objects at a distance. So he was doing this weapons training.

• 1:56:12AJ Gentile?

  Well, for what? Why would he need that kind of training, that kind of weapon?

• 1:56:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, that's an interesting question. I mean, I, I didn't quite understand why he was exposed to that because the missions he's done have been rather benign.

• 1:56:28AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:56:29Speaker 03

  He never is in, he never describes being in battles apart from some recent, more recent missions is described being in battles. But he's put through this weapons training. And so what I think is that he's just being given exposure to a whole range of classified programs to reveal, to reveal them to the world in a way that's

• 1:56:54Speaker 03

  totally deniable, plausible deniability.

• 1:56:56AJ Gentile?

  That's why these photos are allowed to come out?

• 1:56:59Speaker 03

  They're very easy to discredit because they're, they do show an object, but they, but they're not very clear and they're not high resolution at all. They're not, nothing you can say that's conclusive.

• 1:57:11AJ Gentile?

  Never.

• 1:57:13Speaker 03

  So, but there's enough of them to think, well, there's something going on here. This guy's being exposed to something.

• 1:57:18AJ Gentile?

  Well, I've heard that there's an internal battle in,

• 1:57:23AJ Gentile?

  I guess it would be the Pentagon or whatever exists in the trillions of dollars of missing money. That there is a faction that wants disclosure and there's a faction that definitely doesn't. And they're at odds. Have you heard this saying thing?

• 1:57:37Speaker 03

  And that's been just substantiated recently. I mean, you had both Tim Burchett and I think it was Bellison that just came forward and said that Stephen Miller, Stephen Miller, the White House Deputy Chief of Staff was told that, well, actually he revealed that there were very bad people blocking disclosure, that the Trump administration and Miller are trying to put out the information. But that there are very bad people that are blocking disclosure. Well, very bad. What does that mean?

• 1:58:13AJ Gentile?

  What does that mean?

• 1:58:15Speaker 03

  People that are very powerful that can make threats even against high level public officials.

• 1:58:24AJ Gentile?

  That is more powerful than the President of the United States?

• 1:58:29Speaker 03

  That even the President of the United States has to deal with these people that is stopping his administration. Now, Burchett, Bellison and Paulina Luna have all come forward and said that they've spoken with either President Trump or his administration officials. And they all say that Trump is familiar with the issue and he's totally committed to disclosure. And I, I think that that's what Trump is doing, that he's part of this white hat initiative to get the information out there.

• 1:59:08Speaker 03

  But that there's this other faction, the legacy UFO crowd, whatever you want to call them, deep state, that are totally opposed, that want to slow it down or prevent it. And so we're having that struggle playing out in real time. Why, on the one hand, you have these six

• 1:59:26Speaker 03

  vile dumps by the Pentagon, which is very much the low hanging fruit.

• 1:59:31AJ Gentile?

  Yes, it is.

• 1:59:32Speaker 03

  What it does is it legitimizes the UFO field, it makes it real. But then when people dig in, it's like this, this is a big nothing burger.

• 1:59:40AJ Gentile?

  There's nothing here.

• 1:59:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. But it's preparing people, it's acclimating people for the really big stuff. And I think that's where JP comes in. Cause I think JP's time will come where his information will suddenly be validated. And we're already having that. I mean, David Grush is saying these beautiful Nordic looking beings

• 2:00:05AJ Gentile?

  I can't

• 2:00:07Speaker 03

  have been found.

• 2:00:08AJ Gentile?

  You can't undersell how big of a bomb that is to drop. That is the biggest bomb. That's a bigger bomb than his, than him sitting in Congress. Once he said the word Nordic, I went, oh my goodness. It's happening. It's happening.

• 2:00:27Speaker 03

  Exactly. The Nordic extraterrestrials have been visiting us. Some of their craft have either crashed or been brought down. And the bodies have been retrieved. And David Grush says he saw one of the photographs of this. So there's a very famous incident going back to 1978. So Eric Gary was the Prime Minister of Grenada at the time. And, and what he revealed in a conversation with a, another UFO researcher at the time was that a Nordic extraterrestrial in a tight fitting suit.

• 2:01:14Speaker 03

  The body was found on a beach in Grenada with the with the remain with the some of the debris from the craft. So this was Eric Gary talked Eric Gary talked about this in nineteen seventy eight. He said this happened in seventy seven seventy eight, that this Nordic washed up on the beach and that Eric Gary got his people to get the body and put it into a medical facility that was run that I think had American medical students there.

• 2:01:50AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:50Speaker 03

  And then Eric Gary put together this United Nations initiative to set up a

• 2:01:58Speaker 03

  agency to study the UFO phenomenon. And he eventually succeeded in getting the United Nations to pass a resolution.

• 2:02:07AJ Gentile?

  He did? I don't know. How do I not know this story?

• 2:02:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, that's it was a I think it was UN decision two four six or two four seven.

• 2:02:16AJ Gentile?

  Well, this makes the Carter statements a lot more valid now because if this is happening during Carter's administration.

• 2:02:24Speaker 03

  That's right. That's right. And so Eric Gary got the United Nations to convene meetings where they got prominent UFO researchers, Jay Allen Hynek, and I think even Jacques Vallée was part of that. And other prominent researchers went to the United Nations and they talked about the need to set up a UN watchdog or UN organization to monitor UFO reports. So what happened after that was that Britain did a very British thing, British intelligence, you know, they work with the Americans to nullify this resolution. So rather than it being adopted by the General Assembly as a resolution, which would be

• 2:03:09Speaker 03

  something that would stand in time as a United Nations General Assembly resolution, it was passed as a decision rather than a resolution. So the difference is that a resolution deals with policy and something that the United Nations will adhere to and pursue, whereas a decision is more like, well, if you're if you've been serving with the United Nations for ten years, you deserve this amount of pay as opposed to that amount of pay, more an administrative thing. So that's how they were able to bury it. They were but it's still there. It's still there. It's an official United Nations decision. But the thing is, Eric Gary was a threat. And so what happened was that then you had a coup.

• 2:03:52AJ Gentile?

  Yes, you did.

• 2:03:53Speaker 03

  So Eric Gary is visiting the United States and there's a coup. He's removed from power.

• 2:03:58AJ Gentile?

  That's nineteen eighty, right?

• 2:03:59Speaker 03

  That's right. And he's removed from power. There was a socialist revolution. He's removed from power. And then I think it was two years later, you had the UN, the United States invasion of Grenada, and they went to that medical center where, according to my source who interviewed or talked with Eric Gary, that's where the Nordic extraterrestrial body was being stored.

• 2:04:27AJ Gentile?

  It's not there anymore.

• 2:04:30Speaker 03

  But that whole Grenada situation and Eric Gary's sponsorship of the United Nations resolution was all sparked by his discovery of this Nordic extraterrestrial body on a beach in Grenada in what was around nineteen seventy seven. I wrote about that, well, I guess fifteen years ago, but, you know, the details are all there.

• 2:04:53AJ Gentile?

  Because Grenada was very strange to Americans, like, why are we going in there? Because you could take over Grenada in an afternoon with a few Marines. I mean, it's like, what are we doing down here? Americans just walked in and said, we this is ours now. And it was like, okay, that's why.

• 2:05:11Speaker 03

  And the justification was they had to rescue, what was it, two hundred medical students at this facility?

• 2:05:17AJ Gentile?

  So, yeah.

• 2:05:18Speaker 03

  The same facility that Eric Gary said this Nordic extraterrestrial body was being stored. It's like, okay, well, go figure.

• 2:05:27AJ Gentile?

  Do you think that the deep state who's blocking, is that military industrial complex or is that the older bloodlines?

• 2:05:35Speaker 03

  Older bloodlines, definitely.

• 2:05:37AJ Gentile?

  I didn't think you were going to say that. So Lockheed is not the enemy.

• 2:05:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think a lot of these corporations would probably like to have disclosure because they have the proprietary rights over this information. They, you know, have these IRADS, independent research and development contracts, non competitive contracts that they've gotten. So they've been studying these contracts for years and years. And they wanted, they would like to be able to release these technologies and make thousands of fighter craft using anti-gravity propulsion. And there's a good example of this. I think it was Paul LaViolette

• 2:06:27Speaker 03

  wrote a book about the Boeing Aircraft Company.

• 2:06:32AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:06:33Speaker 03

  Asking for permission to release some of the anti-gravity technology that they knew about because they had gained the control over the old McDonnell Douglas files that go back to Douglas Aircraft Company and all of the things they were doing for the Navy.

• 2:06:56AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:06:57Speaker 03

  Which has a rich, rich history. And so the Boeing Corporation had all those files. They have the repositories, the archives of the extraterrestrial technologies that have been recovered, the propulsion systems that they've been being able to build those. They asked for permission from some group to be able to release these in future civilian aircraft that would be using to some extent anti-gravity propulsion systems. But they were denied. And so I think a lot of these corporations, Lockheed, Boeing, Northrop Grumman,

• 2:07:38Speaker 03

  they would love to release this technology, but they're being blocked by someone more powerful.

• 2:07:45AJ Gentile?

  That it makes a lot of sense. Because imagine if you were the company that could build the craft where you can fly to Europe in ten minutes.

• 2:07:53Speaker 03

  And you've got proprietary control over all that technology.

• 2:07:56AJ Gentile?

  Right. You can just go.

• 2:07:57Speaker 03

  You've got the IRADS. No one else has that because you've got the retrieved debris from these extraterrestrial craft. You've been studying it for twenty, thirty, forty years. New companies like SpaceX, Blue Origin, Virgin Galactic, they don't have that. How can they compete?

• 2:08:22AJ Gentile?

  They don't have that. But that's the end of the petrodollar. Right?

• 2:08:28Speaker 03

  So someone more powerful is telling these corporations, you can't release this technology. And that's takes us to the bloodline ruling families.

• 2:08:37AJ Gentile?

  What is the leverage that they have that they're able to to use the power? What gives them their power?

• 2:08:44Speaker 03

  Well, these bloodline ruling families, I mean, they have enormous financial resources.

• 2:08:49AJ Gentile?

  So it's money.

• 2:08:50Speaker 03

  They control the board of directors of many of these corporations. They can influence the direction of that company and they can say, no, this technology is is too disruptive. We don't want you to to release it.

• 2:09:06AJ Gentile?

  And I think a lot of people don't know that that all the major countries, central national banks report to a senior bank, the IMF and the Federal Reserve all report to a senior bank that meets in secret once a year. I don't even think we we know the board. It's very secret. I'm going to do an episode about it. But that's an organization that can pull the lever on two hundred trillion dollars at a time. Right? So that's a lot of power.

• 2:09:42Speaker 03

  Exactly. If you control the financial power and you control the board of directors through shares, if you're one of these ruling bloodline families, you have others from those bloodline families that get together. We're talking Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Medici, all of these very powerful families. And they get together and they say, well, this technology is not something we're going to allow to be released for X number of years. And the people that run the corporations that have developed some of those craft,

• 2:10:21Speaker 03

  they can't release those publicly. I mean, maybe they're given limited orders to build some of those craft for the bloodline families, for some intelligence communities. I mean, that's, I think, what Mark McCandlish revealed. I mean, he was told by Brad Sorensen about these three craft that were on display.

• 2:10:50AJ Gentile?

  Yep. That's those. That's the ARV.

• 2:10:53Speaker 03

  Exactly. The ARV craft.

• 2:10:54AJ Gentile?

  Another suicide.

• 2:10:55Speaker 03

  The flux liner.

• 2:10:57AJ Gentile?

  The flux liner and another suicide.

• 2:10:59Speaker 03

  Exactly. Yeah, Mark McCandlish, right. And so in those three craft, a limited number were made. They were fully operational craft. A limited number were made by someone, maybe Skunk Works made those craft. And there would have been customers because that was an airshow or a classified airshow. So someone would have but who would have been the customers? Someone a representative of the Medici or the Rothschilds.

• 2:11:30AJ Gentile?

  That's the customers, you think?

• 2:11:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that's those are the kind of customers we're talking about. The people who could go to a classified airshow like that, you know, and we're talking about ruling bloodline families, we're talking about.

• 2:11:46Speaker 03

  Some organizations such as, say, the NRO, the CIA, Air Force Special Operations, that could go there and say, yeah, we want three of those. We want five of those. Yeah, I'll take one of those. But you have limited orders and that's the way it's done at the moment. That I think that there's this parallel world of

• 2:12:09Speaker 03

  technologies that have been built on a limited basis by these legacy aerospace corporations that have IRADs and the board of directors are controlled by these ruling bloodline families. And they say you can build a limited number of these craft for these customers. But that's it.

• 2:12:29AJ Gentile?

  But that's it.

• 2:12:30Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 2:12:30AJ Gentile?

  Well, you're a Hawaii guy. Do you remember when Daniel Illinois was talking about the secret? They have their own military, they have their own this or that. Was he talking about the families?

• 2:12:41Speaker 03

  Totally. I think that's exactly what he was talking about. And I hats off to Stephen Greer. I mean, I think he's done fabulous research over the years. And Prince Hans Adam of Lichtenstein is a member of these ruling families. And of course Lawrence Rockefeller was the kind of white hat among the one of these ruling families, wanting to get the information out. But I think Greer is absolutely correct that these ruling families are the ones that decide how much of this information or how much of this technology can be released and when. And why they do it?

• 2:13:24Speaker 03

  They are black magicians or dark magicians, if you like. They understand that real power comes from being able to control millions of people through your control of the mass media, through your control of the economy, getting people to think in a certain way, getting policies passed by members of Congress who you influence or control through financial contributions and so forth. And you can control humanity in that way. You get them to think in a certain way.

• 2:14:03Speaker 03

  And because their real fear, these ruling bloodline families are people that want to reveal that we have within us this infinite creative potential, that we can manifest an incredible world of abundance and beauty.

• 2:14:28Speaker 03

  And all we have to do is think it at a collective level. That's all we have to do, think it. But instead, what does Hollywood do? It produces nightmares.

• 2:14:38AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 2:14:39Speaker 03

  These dystopian societies where after disclosure, you have humans fighting it out to seek out a living in a mad max society where there are these dark extraterrestrial entities that are trying to exterminate us. So like how you don't get movies that kind of like the Last Mimsy is a good example, movies like that. Imagine if instead of Exterminator and Independence Day, you have

• 2:15:14Speaker 03

  dozens of Hollywood blockbusters that are based on something like The Last Mimsy, where you have this inherent power within to manifest a beautiful world. The ruling bloodline families don't want that.

• 2:15:32AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 2:15:32Speaker 03

  So they prevent it. And that's why they're fighting tooth and nail to prevent disclosure.

• 2:15:39AJ Gentile?

  Well, don't the races, the extraterrestrial races or terrestrial races that built those vehicles, the technology, don't they have a say in it? Don't they?

• 2:15:51AJ Gentile?

  Why do they have to report to the families? The Nordics could just say, here we are. We don't care about those families.

• 2:16:01Speaker 03

  But of course, the Nordics understand the public perception would be swayed by those that control the mass media and the political class. And if the Nordics show up with the most benign intentions, what you would have instead is the mass media and the political class saying, no, they're not beautiful looking humans. This is a takeover attempt by the reptilians who are impersonating humans. Think V. Think V. You know, the series V. They're reptilians in disguise. Don't believe them. And the Nordics understand this. They understand that if they tried to

• 2:16:45Speaker 03

  preempt this or tried to reveal themselves, it would be the narrative would be switched from what would truthfully be happening to this lie that, no, it's reptilians in disguise that are here to take over our world and eat us.

• 2:17:03AJ Gentile?

  That's probably what would happen. And then you've got humans attacking these. That's probably what would happen. And they do have that kind of power.

• 2:17:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I think that's why there's such a powerful battle being fought right now. And why the Trump administration is at the center of that. And why the creation of Space Force is so important? Because it was something that the deep state tried to prevent.

• 2:17:37AJ Gentile?

  It was it? I've heard you say that after Brookings, we needed Space Force to be formed before disclosure because you don't want disclosure before you have a way to defend against it if it's a threat. That makes sense to me.

• 2:17:54Speaker 03

  Right. There was something called the Space Commission that was set up by the Clinton administration and Donald Rumsfeld was the chairman of the Space Commission.

• 2:18:03AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:18:04Speaker 03

  And the report of the Space Commission was recommendation to create a space corps that would prevent a future

• 2:18:15Speaker 03

  space Pearl Harbor.

• 2:18:16AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:18:16Speaker 03

  So that was, that report came out in 2000, 2001. And Rumsfeld became the Secretary of Defense under the first Bush administration. And Rumsfeld was trying to

• 2:18:35Speaker 03

  create the legislation or the policy for the creation of a space corps. But before that could happen, you had 9/11. And so all of a sudden, the emphasis switched from preparing the United States for a potential space Pearl Harbor from who knows who to fighting these terrorists in the hills of Afghanistan.

• 2:19:02AJ Gentile?

  That's right. It happened right at the same time.

• 2:19:05Speaker 03

  Exactly. And of course, there was also other aspects of Rumsfeld revealing the hidden or the misappropriation of trillions of dollars. On September 10, he announced that there were

• 2:19:20AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 2:19:21Speaker 03

  $2.1 trillion missing from the Pentagon budget. And he was alluding to, well, where's that money going? What's it being used for? So the attempt to set up a space corps was shut down very early on. And I think this goes back to the ruling bloodline families because they understand that once you get something like a space corps, Space Force being created, that there's a momentum behind the military, that the military

• 2:19:58Speaker 03

  want this kind of technology being released. And if you give them the means in terms of a capability in space where you have the development of technologies for a future control of space to prevent things like a future space Pearl Harbor, that that would inevitably lead to the release of these technologies that Lockheed Martin has and Northrop Grumman and Raytheon. And so to shut all that down, they

• 2:20:36Speaker 03

  Manufactured nine eleven to distract the American public for close to twenty years from the need for this defence against a spaceport harbour. And then Trump comes on the scene and he virtually early on, from very early in his first administration, says, Space Force, what a great idea. It's my idea, so it is even better.

• 2:21:01AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:02Speaker 03

  It is better than the old Space Corps idea, but he becomes a champion for Space Force.

• 2:21:07AJ Gentile?

  How does he get it through? How was he allowed to get that one through?

• 2:21:11Speaker 03

  Sheer force of will. He, he got it through. I mean, the, the ruling bloodline families, they had their people in, in positions of power. The Secretary of the Air Force at the time, Heather Wilson, she had gag orders on the need for developing a, an independent space force. She had a gag order.

• 2:21:36AJ Gentile?

  Who can gag her? Only SecDef, I would think.

• 2:21:39Speaker 03

  No, no, Heather Wilson issued the gag.

• 2:21:41AJ Gentile?

  Oh, she issued the gag order.

• 2:21:43Speaker 03

  She issued the gag order, so no Air Force officer.

• 2:21:46AJ Gentile?

  So that.

• 2:21:46Speaker 03

  Talk about the, the need for creating a Space Force.

• 2:21:48AJ Gentile?

  That's the whole department then.

• 2:21:50Speaker 03

  Exactly. The whole Department of the Air Force, there was a gag order that Heather Wilson issued, and I'll talk about it in, in the book, Space Force, Our Star Trek Future. She put out a gag order to prevent Air Force officers for talking about the need for an independent space organisation. The very thing that was proposed in the Rumsfeld Space Commission in two thousand, that led to his recommendation for a Space Corps. She's now saying, don't talk about that. So clearly, you have a continuation from nine eleven, whoever was behind nine eleven, and I think the ruling bloodline families facilitated that.

• 2:22:31AJ Gentile?

  Ah, I can't, I can't argue with you.

• 2:22:34Speaker 03

  To this, to the gag orders against creating a Space Force. So Trump sacks Heather Wilson, puts his own person as the, as Secretary of the Air Force, and he mandates the creation of a Space Force. And sure enough, the people in the Air Force love it. They love the idea. Yeah, we want to have a Space Force.

• 2:22:58AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 2:22:59Speaker 03

  We need a dedicated space service. And so they were all for it, which is exactly what would have happened in, in two thousand and one, which is what they stopped because they understand that the military mindset is like, oh man, why, why stop at Air Force, you know, F twenty twos and F thirty fives? We can have anti-gravity spacecraft that can do battle in deep space. Why, why the F not? You know?

• 2:23:25AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 2:23:25Speaker 03

  We want these space toys. We're all for it. So, yeah.

• 2:23:29AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 2:23:30Speaker 03

  So they, they, exactly what they wanted. And, and so the deeps they tried, they failed because Trump, for various reasons, was wanting to move forward with the creation of this Space Force because these people, and I think that they are associated with the military, understand that not only is this of great benefit to American citizens and humanity, the release of these suppressed technologies,

• 2:24:06Speaker 03

  but that also, why have maybe a dozen spacecraft that you're using for elite units like Air Force Special Operations that JP photographed back in two thousand and seventeen, that these exist, that these craft are using? Why, why have a few dozen of these being used for special operations when you can have three hundred squadrons? Like, like the Air Force has three hundred squadrons to develop air superiority over the planet. You have three hundred squadrons of Air Force jets.

• 2:24:48AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:24:49Speaker 03

  Why not have three hundred squadrons of these flying saucer craft, TR three B craft, who in their right mind wouldn't say, yeah, that's what we want. We want to have full spectrum domination in space. And that's what we're having now. I mean, that, that is happening right now. I mean, the, the latest directives from the Trump administration are all about developing full spectrum domination in cis lunar space. So this is happening right now. And this is all a consequence of Trump creating the Space Force, creating, recreating US Space Command.

• 2:25:33Speaker 03

  And, and now this is all generating the momentum for the release of these advanced technologies that have been previously built for, for limited space operations to now being built or mass produced for full spectrum domination in space.

• 2:25:58AJ Gentile?

  So does that mean Solar Warden and those secret space programmes that predate Space Force exist? Like, when Gary, Gary McKinnon found those strange lists in NASA of about off-fleet officers and names of ships and stuff, I don't think he's lying. I mean, he's not lying. America tried to extradite him and, and Obama was denied. I think he's telling the truth.

• 2:26:24Speaker 03

  Absolutely. I think he revealed exactly what he saw.

• 2:26:28AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:29Speaker 03

  That there were these cigar-shaped craft that were involved in these fleet, fleet transfers of non-terrestrial officers. So I think right there you have evidence of a secret space programme.

• 2:26:45Speaker 03

  But one of the things that people don't know about the McKinnon case is that shortly after he revealed the existence of this secret space programme, Space Command, US Space Command, which was at the time one of the ten combatant commands, was subordinated into the Air Force. So someone decided that what McKinnon had done exposed too much of what was going on, and so they decided to bury it. So now Space Command is demoted into a subordinate command of the Air Force.

• 2:27:30Speaker 03

  And, and so that means that whatever Space Command was doing, it was being hamstrung now as a result of McKinnon's revelations. So, you know, that raises the question, well, was McKinnon set up to see this? Because they wanted to suppress Space Command and they wanted to suppress the momentum for creating a Space Force. So, and that's how they did it, by releasing some of what's come, of what's really happening. And, and then that becoming a case for burying Space Command within the Department of the

• 2:28:14Speaker 03

  Air Force and doing nothing with the whole idea of creating a Space Corps.

• 2:28:21AJ Gentile?

  So you don't think they had built anything yet?

• 2:28:24Speaker 03

  I think they had built, they had built a lot of stuff.

• 2:28:26AJ Gentile?

  Because it sounds like he thinks that there were off-world crew.

• 2:28:31Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. I think that they were, but these were used for two primary purposes, military purposes. One is intelligence gathering. So the intelligence community would use these reverse engineered craft, like the fly, the, you know, the three, the flux liners built. And, and the other was special operations.

• 2:28:58Speaker 03

  But that would mean that you only need a limited number of these craft. But the people in the military that wanted more of these craft understood that you had to change military doctrine so that space, rather than space being a place for peace, for peaceful relations between humanity in, in accordance with the Outer Space Treaty of nineteen sixty seven, which called for space being the domain for peaceful cooperation and that you shouldn't weaponise it, no mass weapons in space and so forth.

• 2:29:39AJ Gentile?

  No nation can claim anything in space?

• 2:29:41Speaker 03

  Right. No, no base, no military bases.

• 2:29:44AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:29:44Speaker 03

  To be built on the moon and so forth.

• 2:29:47Speaker 03

  You needed to come up with a new doctrine for space that would distance the US military from the peaceful uses of space that were being advocated under the, under the Outer Space Treaty to now space being, being a contested battlefield where the US needed to assert full spectrum domination.

• 2:30:13AJ Gentile?

  But who's the enemy?

• 2:30:16Speaker 03

  You can be vague about that, like a space Pearl Harbor. Could be China, could be Russia, could be anyone.

• 2:30:24AJ Gentile?

  When the media said he was talking about satellites when he talked about Pearl Harbor. And I'm not sure he was.

• 2:30:32AJ Gentile?

  Because I don't know how satellites are Pearl Harbor.

• 2:30:34Speaker 03

  That would have been a space Pearl Harbor. Like if all of a sudden the satellite grid was just destroyed by someone.

• 2:30:41AJ Gentile?

  That's true.

• 2:30:42Speaker 03

  That would have been a space Pearl Harbor. Because all of a sudden, the US military is blind. But that doctrinal shift from space being considered a benign environment for peaceful cooperation

• 2:30:58Speaker 03

  to now being a contested sphere or a contested battle space. That was what Trump did. That was his big innovation. And that doctrinal shift was what Heather Wilson was fighting on behalf of these bloodline families tooth and nail against, that Air Force officers couldn't talk about that. If you're going to talk about space, space is a place for peaceful cooperation. We send up the ISS and a military pilot might go up to help civilian programs up there. But we're not going to talk about space being a contested battle space at all. Trump changed that.

• 2:31:43Speaker 03

  And in changing that, he opened the door to this huge shift in the way the military regards space, where all of a sudden, space is now contested. The US military needs to protect its assets in space and develop the means to be able to defend from all types of enemies in cis lunar space, the whole region between the the moon and the earth.

• 2:32:17AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:32:18Speaker 03

  That the military had to defend all of that. And that's a huge doctrinal shift. And now we're seeing the fruit of that, where very recently, you have the Trump, well, you had the the Secretary of the Air Force, Troy Mink, saying that the United States has orbital weapons platforms.

• 2:32:47Speaker 03

  That is a consequence of Trump's creation of Space Force and making space a contested battlefield. Previously-

• 2:32:56AJ Gentile?

  But they can't have orbital. They can't have that in space. That's a violation of international law.

• 2:33:02Speaker 03

  The Outer Space Treaty prohibits nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction-

• 2:33:08AJ Gentile?

  But not-

• 2:33:08Speaker 03

  -in orbit, but not defensive weapons.

• 2:33:13AJ Gentile?

  There's always a loophole. Let's take a break. But when we come back, the Outer Space Treaty, a lot of that is based on the Antarctica Treaty of 1959. And I've heard more than one expert say, if there's going to be a World War III, it's going to be the first country that violates the Antarctica Treaty.

• 2:33:32AJ Gentile?

  We're back.

• 2:33:34AJ Gentile?

  I have in my notes something that I wasn't really aware of. That space program, that there's tension there. Solar Warden is connected to Navy and Nordic aligned. The US Air Force program is connected to Space Force.

• 2:33:52AJ Gentile?

  And they're at odds. Does that sound right?

• 2:33:59Speaker 03

  They were at odds.

• 2:34:02AJ Gentile?

  They were.

• 2:34:03Speaker 03

  That's right. And that brings us back to the whole question about these meetings and agreements that happened. And as far as I could tell, my research showed that the Air Force, up until recently, was working very closely with these grays, with these reptilians, and that they were working also with this dark fleet component. We haven't really gone into that. But that's something that was the kind of darker side of this whole phenomenon.

• 2:34:47AJ Gentile?

  And dark fleet, you buy into that story.

• 2:34:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:52AJ Gentile?

  Because some of the dark fleet folks, I've debunked those folks.

• 2:34:58AJ Gentile?

  But that doesn't mean the story's not true.

• 2:35:01Speaker 03

  Right. I think maybe that Corey Goode-

• 2:35:04AJ Gentile?

  Yes, Corey.

• 2:35:05Speaker 03

  -is a good example of someone who put out information that resonated and kind of matched a lot of others. And then he-

• 2:35:17AJ Gentile?

  But he says he invented dark-

• 2:35:19Speaker 03

  And then he said, well, this is my proprietary information-

• 2:35:23AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 2:35:23Speaker 03

  -that I created it through my creative imagination. And he kind of like shot himself in the foot.

• 2:35:29AJ Gentile?

  Yes, he did.

• 2:35:30Speaker 03

  But he certainly wasn't the first one to talk about many elements of the secret space programs.

• 2:35:36AJ Gentile?

  No, he wasn't.

• 2:35:38Speaker 03

  And I personally like focus much more on William Tompkins, because his version has held up much more, much better.

• 2:35:51AJ Gentile?

  What's his story?

• 2:35:53Speaker 03

  Well, he served with the US Navy. And he, from 1942 up until 1946, was stationed at Naval Air Station San Diego. And he says that he was part of a top secret debriefing program of Navy spies embedded in Nazi Germany. And that those Navy spies were bringing back this incredible information about the Germans having developed these flying saucer craft, having developed a base in Antarctica, and that they were moving a lot of these craft down there, and that they had these incredible flight performance characteristics.

• 2:36:34Speaker 03

  And Tompkins' job was to be part of the debriefings of these, he said, he named up to 30 Navy, young Navy lieutenants that had infiltrated Nazi Germany, that they were, they had German backgrounds, and they infiltrated top corporations in Germany. And they were doing these debriefings, and they were sharing this incredible information. And Tompkins was saying that, based on that information, he then put together these briefing packets that would be delivered to all of the top aerospace corporations in the United

• 2:37:15Speaker 03

  States at the time, which were Douglas Aircraft, Lockheed, and the-

• 2:37:21AJ Gentile?

  Hughes, maybe?

• 2:37:22Speaker 03

  The Hughes, Dayton, Ohio, with the Air Force, development of jet aircraft and so forth. So he would deliver these briefing packets, and that he often got a negative reception because the engineers, the scientists said, no way, these technologies are not possible. This is bunk and get lost. You're wasting my time.

• 2:37:48AJ Gentile?

  Now, we're not talking alien technology. We're, right? We're talking jets.

• 2:37:52Speaker 03

  We're talking technologies that the Germans were working on as a result of their collaboration with these reptilian extraterrestrials.

• 2:38:03AJ Gentile?

  So-

• 2:38:04Speaker 03

  So Tompkins said that these Navy spies reported reptilian extraterrestrials working with the Germans.

• 2:38:13AJ Gentile?

  And the reptilians are at war with the Nordics.

• 2:38:17Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 2:38:19AJ Gentile?

  So Nazis in Antarctica, that's absolutely true. Neustraubland is, was there. And you think that was a base? That wasn't just a whale oil mission?

• 2:38:33Speaker 03

  That was a base.

• 2:38:34AJ Gentile?

  That was a base.

• 2:38:34Speaker 03

  That was a top, yeah, that was a base that these German submarines were able to-

• 2:38:41AJ Gentile?

  Go under the-

• 2:38:42Speaker 03

  -find because they could go under the ice sheets, and they found those.

• 2:38:48AJ Gentile?

  Here's an argument I have with some of my audience, who say that anybody can go to Antarctica, because I say, nobody can go to Antarctica. Nobody can go there. Yeah, you can take a cruise there, you can get permission. You try and get permission to go somewhere in Antarctica, other than right there, McMurdo Base, or you want to go in there? It's as big as the United States. Good luck getting permission. You're not going. You agree?

• 2:39:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. You can get to Antarctica.

• 2:39:16AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:39:16Speaker 03

  I mean, Brad Olson, a friend of mine, who is a good researcher, he's, he traveled to Antarctica, but he didn't see anything. I mean, he said he was looking for this stuff, this secret base, but he couldn't get anywhere close to it because, I mean, he was part of a, he was, well, I think it wasn't quite a cruise ship that he found his passage to Antarctica, but he couldn't get to these places.

• 2:39:42AJ Gentile?

  No, it's a massive continent. And you can't go there.

• 2:39:46Speaker 03

  That's right. You just can't hire a plane and fly over it.

• 2:39:51AJ Gentile?

  And that's what, it was a political scientist I was talking to about Antarctica. And he said, all the countries agree on this, is these are the places where you can go. I don't, I think there's 17 signatories, something like that, something like that. And you can go no further. And that's, and he considers that the most important international treaty, that the first country to break that causes a war.

• 2:40:20Speaker 03

  The Antarctica Treaty, yes, I've heard that, that it is a very important place for controlling the planet. And that's one of the reasons why I think this base was established there by the Germans with the help of their friends, their off-world friends, is because Antarctica, I mean, if you look at the magnetic lines, the Earth, they go, like, the Earth is like a toroid, a torus, and it goes from the North Pole to the South Pole. It's like those magnetic lines flow around that. Well, if you want to control the entire planet energetically,

• 2:41:04Speaker 03

  that is the place you would need to control.

• 2:41:06AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:41:07Speaker 03

  Is Antarctica. And so that raises the question, well, was it accidental that this is where the Germans set up their base, their original base? And we know from the historical records that in 1939, before World War II started, that President Roosevelt instructed Admiral Byrd to launch an expedition to Antarctica to find the German base.

• 2:41:39AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:40Speaker 03

  That's a fact.

• 2:41:41AJ Gentile?

  That's a fact.

• 2:41:41Speaker 03

  Historical record, that's a fact. So it's like, well, people say, well, the Germans didn't establish a base down there. It's like, well, why did Roosevelt command Byrd to find the base, the German base?

• 2:41:54AJ Gentile?

  And think about High Jump. That task force was armed to the teeth. That you don't do that for penguins.

• 2:42:00Speaker 03

  That's right. Why do you need 2,000 Marines for a scientific mission to Antarctica?

• 2:42:05AJ Gentile?

  A carrier, a sub, helicopters, plane, I mean...

• 2:42:08Speaker 03

  I mean, I haven't seen any Emperor Penguins with AK-47s yet.

• 2:42:12AJ Gentile?

  No, they went down there armed to the teeth. And we still don't know why.

• 2:42:17Speaker 03

  That's right. And if you look at the records of Operation High Jump, they did a, there were, the fleets, the three fleets converged in front of Queen Maudland.

• 2:42:30AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 2:42:30Speaker 03

  Where the base was...

• 2:42:34AJ Gentile?

  That was landing zone, yeah?

• 2:42:35Speaker 03

  That was the place where you would launch the attack.

• 2:42:38AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:42:38Speaker 03

  On Base 211. And apparently, that's what happened. There was an attack. They did try to attack the base and take it out, but they were, Operation High Jump suffered severe casualties. And of course, Admiral Byrd went back to the United States via Chile, where he gave that report to Lee Van Etteren and talked about this new enemy that could fly from pole to pole.

• 2:43:05AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:06Speaker 03

  Again, raising this issue about he who controls the pole, or the South Pole, has a big hold in controlling the planet. Because that's the toroidal energy field and the entrances into the inner Earth. But the big thing about Admiral Byrd, and a lot of people don't appreciate this, is that if you look at his reception in the United States after Operation High Jump, 1948, he comes back, what was it, February, March of...

• 2:43:40AJ Gentile?

  Forty-seven.

• 2:43:41Speaker 03

  Forty-seven, February, March, forty-seven, he comes back. It's all secret.

• 2:43:47AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:47Speaker 03

  Compare that with every other time he came back.

• 2:43:50AJ Gentile?

  Ticker tape parade.

• 2:43:51Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:43:52AJ Gentile?

  Down in Manhattan.

• 2:43:53Speaker 03

  What in the world happened?

• 2:43:55AJ Gentile?

  What happened?

• 2:43:56Speaker 03

  Something happened in Antarctica.

• 2:43:59AJ Gentile?

  Because they were turned back a little early.

• 2:44:01Speaker 03

  They wanted to suppress. And they gave Byrd this gag order that he wasn't to talk about it. And we really know nothing firsthand from Admiral Byrd. I mean, you have the diary, the so-called diary.

• 2:44:19AJ Gentile?

  But I don't believe the diary.

• 2:44:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it's...

• 2:44:23AJ Gentile?

  It's been debunked.

• 2:44:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a document that can be easily debunked.

• 2:44:27AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:44:27Speaker 03

  I think it's put out there to discredit the truth about what really happened there. And of course, like any good disinformation, it's 95% truth, 5% lies.

• 2:44:41AJ Gentile?

  Part of that legend is he's flying his first-person craft over the ice. He sees mammoths, green fields, and then UFOs come alongside him. He loses control of the plane. He looks, and on the side of the UFOs are swastikas.

• 2:44:56Speaker 03

  The Ariani.

• 2:44:57AJ Gentile?

  The Ariani, it goes from there.

• 2:44:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. So it's like, well, is that the truth? That was part of this diary that's really created for disinformation purposes? To discredit? Because that's the best way to hide the truth, right? You hide it in a pack of lies. Or you seed it with a certain number of lies.

• 2:45:20AJ Gentile?

  You do.

• 2:45:20Speaker 03

  You know, I mean, what was it Churchill said? That in a time of war, truth is so precious that it needs to be

• 2:45:28AJ Gentile?

  Surrounded.

• 2:45:29Speaker 03

  Surrounded by a litany of lies.

• 2:45:30AJ Gentile?

  Surrounded by a litany of lies, right.

• 2:45:31Speaker 03

  It's like, okay, so if there are these Ariani who are

• 2:45:38Speaker 03

  closet, or that have an affinity with the Nazi ideology,

• 2:45:43AJ Gentile?

  But those are right.

• 2:45:43Speaker 03

  Or some elements of it, well, yeah, you hide that truth, but you do it in plain sight by putting out this fake diary. But the bottom line is that William Tompkins, his information about Operation High Jump, Antarctica, was based on his firsthand exposure to the US Navy's covert program. And then his work with the Douglas Aircraft Company from 1950 to 1961, where he was part of this think tank called Advanced Design. And he worked directly under Dr. William Klemperer.

• 2:46:28Speaker 03

  And it's like, well, who is William Klemperer? He was the guy that came to the United States under contract from the Zeppelin Company to help the United States build its first flying aircraft carriers.

• 2:46:45AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 2:46:46Speaker 03

  So he was working with Goodyear Zeppelin in the 1920s and 30s to build the USS Akron and Macon. They were the US Navy's first flying aircraft carriers. So they were actually flying aircraft carriers. They were dirigibles, filled with helium, and they could get these aircraft to fly underneath and land on them. So these were flying aircraft carriers in the 1930s.

• 2:47:20AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:21Speaker 03

  The guy who designed these on behalf of the US Navy was William Klemperer. And of course, then you had the crashes in 1933. So that project ended. So Klemperer goes on to work with Douglas Aircraft Company. And then in 1950, William Tompkins starts working with Douglas Aircraft Company. But because of his work with the Navy, he gets fast-tracked into this advanced design where Douglas Aircraft is receiving these contracts from the US Navy for designing space carriers.

• 2:48:04Speaker 03

  And the guy running that was Dr. William Klemperer. The same guy.

• 2:48:10AJ Gentile?

  Same guy.

• 2:48:11Speaker 03

  The same guy. And he was Bill Tompkins' boss in this project that was run out of Douglas Aircraft Company. And at the time, people whose side of the fact that Douglas Aircraft Company would be the equivalent of how we view Lockheed Martin's conch works. It was the leading aircraft designer in the world. And that's where the most secretive advanced projects were being developed. And so if the US Navy was wanting a major aerospace corporation to help it design space carriers,

• 2:48:55Speaker 03

  Douglas Aircraft was the most logical choice. And the benefit was that you actually had the guy that had designed the flying aircraft carriers for the Navy, working there and heading up the project. So it makes total sense that Tompkins was exposed to this while at Douglas Aircraft Company.

• 2:49:14AJ Gentile?

  It does, but it's not dirigibles anymore. What's his technology to get out of the atmosphere?

• 2:49:22Speaker 03

  This is the other interesting thing, and it brings us back to the question of these Nordic extraterrestrials. Tompkins says that while he was working at Douglas Aircraft, there were these three Nordic extraterrestrials, two stunningly attractive women and one male that were embedded in Douglas Aircraft Company. And they were helping the engineers and scientists in Douglas to come up with ideas for designing these space carriers. And according to Tompkins, this was what the Nordics were doing, that they were helping the US Navy

• 2:50:03Speaker 03

  develop a future generation of space carriers.

• 2:50:08AJ Gentile?

  If this is true, then World War II was a proxy war for alien races.

• 2:50:13Speaker 03

  Exactly. That's what happened. And I believe that not only did the Germans get help from the Nordics, or sorry, get help from the reptilians, but the US got help from the Nordics. But the big difference was, and you find this in the majestic documents, that there's reports talking about the

• 2:50:41Speaker 03

  Los Angeles air raid incident in 1942.

• 2:50:46AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, the Battle of Los Angeles.

• 2:50:48Speaker 03

  Right. And you have the correspondence involving Roosevelt and Vannevar Bush.

• 2:50:56Speaker 03

  And Vannevar Bush was all for studying and reverse engineering the captured extraterrestrial technologies, whereas Roosevelt decided that the technologies were too advanced, that the war effort would be hindered if they put resources into studying these captured technologies.

• 2:51:23AJ Gentile?

  Right, let's build what works.

• 2:51:26Speaker 03

  And put the energy into

• 2:51:27AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:51:28Speaker 03

  conventional weapons and atomic weapons, and will leave the study in reverse engineering for after the war.

• 2:51:35AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:51:35Speaker 03

  And that's exactly what happened.

• 2:51:37AJ Gentile?

  That's what happens.

• 2:51:43AJ Gentile?

  Why do you think those races are fighting each other? Like, for resources here? What are they? Why is this planet valuable?

• 2:51:56Speaker 03

  I think what has happened is that humanity is a tremendous resource. And one group of extraterrestrials look at us as beings that have this potential to be a very positive force for transformation in our galaxy. So this is more the view of, say, the Nordics. And there have been people who talked about that, that the Nordics see us as some kind of very unique hybrid creation involving as many as 22 different extraterrestrial genetics.

• 2:52:36AJ Gentile?

  Really?

• 2:52:37Speaker 03

  That we have multiple extraterrestrial genetics in our DNA going back hundreds of thousands of years.

• 2:52:44AJ Gentile?

  Who put together that program? I mean, this is an Anunnaki story.

• 2:52:53Speaker 03

  The Anunnaki are a part of that. There was a researcher, Arthur Horn, who talked about, he wrote a book, "Humanity's Extraterrestrial Origins." Arthur Horn, who was a, I think he was a paleontologist, so he was professional and academic. And he said, "If you look at humanity's history, well, actually, the history of our planet, there are these intervention points, multiple intervention points," where he identifies extraterrestrials coming in and altering the genetics of the dominant species at the time.

• 2:53:35Speaker 03

  And so there is multiple points in our planetary history. So he documented that in his book, "Humanity's Extraterrestrial Origins."

• 2:53:45AJ Gentile?

  I need to read that. Could that be where the reptilians and the mantids come from? That they're just part of history?

• 2:53:53Speaker 03

  They are part of these intervention points, that there have been multiple intervention points. And I believe that what's happened is that there have been multiple experiments, genetic experiments on Earth, done by different civilizations. And at the end of those experiments, the Earth is reset.

• 2:54:17AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:18Speaker 03

  And we start up again.

• 2:54:19AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:19Speaker 03

  And another race will come in and say, "Well, this experiment needs our genetics." And so they will lend their genetics. And this has happened multiple times. And so the end result is that present-day Homo sapiens were viewed in one of two ways by this constellation of extraterrestrials watching us. One viewed us as this tremendous amalgam of extraterrestrial origins. We're all hybrids, all of us are hybrids. And so we have this potential because we have the genetics of as many as 22 different extraterrestrial civilizations.

• 2:55:00Speaker 03

  And so we can be very powerful transformative change agents for the galaxy. So they want to recruit us to be, well, to put it, you know, put it, think of it like Jedi Knights, Star Wars.

• 2:55:16AJ Gentile?

  I believe in manifestation, and so does the US military and the gateway process.

• 2:55:21Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 2:55:22AJ Gentile?

  So imagine if we all learn to do that.

• 2:55:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:55:29Speaker 03

  And on the other hand, other groups of extraterrestrials look at us as being very powerful warriors, that we make an ideal mercenary force that can be used for their planetary conquest. And so this is where the whole draconian reptilian thing comes into the picture, because they saw the Germans, and they saw their ideology as very suited for creating this mercenary force.

• 2:55:59AJ Gentile?

  So is ours. So do you think they're out there? Are there humans that were taken to be a military force that are off-planet? You do?

• 2:56:11Speaker 03

  I do, yeah. I think that there have been military, let's say, substantial numbers of military personnel and Germans were recruited into this program. And they set up a mercenary force that were auxiliaries, if you like, to this draconian imperial force that's out there conquering as many human worlds as possible using human mercenaries from Earth that are part of this dark fleet.

• 2:56:54Speaker 03

  And so that really sets up a very interesting.

• 2:56:59AJ Gentile?

  It does. What happened to Hans Kammler? What happened to Hans Kammler?

• 2:57:05Speaker 03

  Okay, well, Hans Kammler, what he presided over were the unsuccessful attempts by the Nazi SS to weaponize the flying saucer craft that the German secret societies had under development since the 1920s.

• 2:57:25AJ Gentile?

  The Drill, the Tullis.

• 2:57:26Speaker 03

  Exactly. So those guys, the German secret societies, they understand consciousness, they understand the power of manifestation, they understand how a lot of this advanced technology requires developing consciousness. So they did all of that work, and they began developing the first secret space programs, or the German space program. And when they realized that the Germans, or that the Third Reich was doomed, they moved everything that they could out of Nazi Germany, down to South America, neutral countries.

• 2:58:08AJ Gentile?

  Quote-unquote "neutral."

• 2:58:10Speaker 03

  Right, exactly. Spain, and Argentina, and so forth. And that they would build a Fourth Reich.

• 2:58:19AJ Gentile?

  So this is the breakaway society theory?

• 2:58:23Speaker 03

  Well, it's more than a theory.

• 2:58:25AJ Gentile?

  It's more than a theory. I mean, I've had Peter Levenda in here, who has gone there and been detained. He's been detained by Germans.

• 2:58:34Speaker 03

  Exactly. And you have the Red House Report from 1944 that's documented, the Strasbourg meeting in 1944, that were a meeting with high-level German industrialists that was presided over by Martin Bormann and Heinrich Himmler.

• 2:58:54AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 2:58:54Speaker 03

  Who knew about this as well. And it, these were orders given to the leading German industrialists, "Get as much as you can out of Germany." This is August 1944.

• 2:59:07AJ Gentile?

  This is Operation Eagle Flight.

• 2:59:09Speaker 03

  Perfect. That was setting up the Fourth Reich.

• 2:59:13AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:59:13Speaker 03

  And so you have all this German capital, all this know-how, all the technology being moved out of Germany. But the German secret societies, they anticipated all of this. So they knew the Third Reich was headed for defeat. So they moved as much as they could down to Antarctica, and Kammler was part of the Nazi SS. But they were different to the Third Reich.

• 2:59:39AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:59:40Speaker 03

  This is where people often don't appreciate that there is a significant difference between what the Third Reich was trying to do with these flying saucer technologies and what the secret societies were trying to do with these advanced technologies. And I think that the Third Reich, the Nazi SS failed, that Hans Kammler failed. But he was given the assignment to reach deals with the Americans, with Alan Dulles.

• 3:00:17AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:00:18Speaker 03

  Who was heading the CIA's program out of Switzerland.

• 3:00:23AJ Gentile?

  Out of Switzerland, yeah.

• 3:00:24Speaker 03

  And reach deals with the Americans. And that's what he did. Deals were struck.

• 3:00:30AJ Gentile?

  And that's the last we see of him in history. He's not found again. He's in American custody, and he disappears.

• 3:00:37Speaker 03

  He disappears, but he still pops up from time to time.

• 3:00:40AJ Gentile?

  He does?

• 3:00:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. Clark McClelland, who was a spacecraft operator, who worked for decades in NASA and worked with the Paperclip scientists as part of the Apollo program, he says that he saw Hans Kammler in one of the meetings involving Kurt De Busse at the Kennedy Space Center. Hans Kammler shows up at one of these meetings.

• 3:01:11AJ Gentile?

  Why didn't he come over as part of Paperclip?

• 3:01:16AJ Gentile?

  He would have been useful.

• 3:01:19Speaker 03

  Some deal was struck with Kamala. And exactly what his role was with the deal,

• 3:01:27Speaker 03

  it's not clear what that was. But he seems to have been

• 3:01:32Speaker 03

  someone setting up these negotiations between the Fourth Reich and the US. And of course, we know all about Reinhard Göring and the setting up of a kind of German espionage service using these ex-Nazi agents and how they were all working with the CIA in collaboration with the CIA. So a lot of the Nazi intelligence apparatus was absorbed by the CIA into West Germany, into NATO.

• 3:02:05AJ Gentile?

  And that's not controversial because paperclip was almost a cover story for maybe 10,000 Nazis that got absorbed as American assets for the intelligence community that lives full lives here with pensions and everything.

• 3:02:20Speaker 03

  And what's very significant about that, and Jim Mas, I have to credit him for that work in his book, The Fourth Reich.

• 3:02:27AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:02:27Speaker 03

  He points out that a lot of these paperclip scientists were given, they were fast-tracked in terms of their security clearances, and they were given high-level positions, not just in NASA, but also in these high-level corporations.

• 3:02:43AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:02:43Speaker 03

  So why is that? How would it be possible for these German paperclip scientists come here and be fast-tracked for security clearances that would take American scientists two years or whatever to get?

• 3:02:57AJ Gentile?

  Well, sure. Von Braun should have been hung. He should have been hung. He was a national hero.

• 3:03:06AJ Gentile?

  But he should have been hung at the Hague.

• 3:03:09AJ Gentile?

  As a major in the SS, 30,000 Jews died on his watch, but he didn't know about it.

• 3:03:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:03:15AJ Gentile?

  He knows how to build rockets. All is forgiven.

• 3:03:20Speaker 03

  And he's put in charge of the Marshall Space Flight Center. And he has hundreds of German scientists working under him, under the Marshall Space Flight Center, setting up the Apollo program and ostensibly building the Saturn V rocket. Now, was that what, is that what was really happening with the paperclip scientists out of Marshall Space Flight Center? They were building these rockets, these Saturn V rockets for the Apollo program? And that's what they exclusively focused their energies on? Or were they moonlighting in these underground facilities

• 3:04:03Speaker 03

  near Redstone Arsenal, building these flying saucer craft or these ARV craft? And this is anecdotal, but I got it from a very good source. A Dr. David Clements, who was doing a postdoctoral at a university in Edinburgh in 2002. He was working with Thomas Bearden. And I don't know if you've heard of Thomas Bearden.

• 3:04:30AJ Gentile?

  I have.

• 3:04:30Speaker 03

  Very prominent anti-gravity, free-energy, scalar weapons researcher. And Thomas Bearden told him in 2002 that he knew of a secret base in Alabama that had superluminal spacecraft in operation since the 1960s. Now, you think about that. Superluminal spacecraft in Alabama in the 1960s. Well, Alabama, where's that? Well, isn't that where Redstone Arsenal is? Isn't that where the Marshall Space?

• 3:05:07AJ Gentile?

  Huntsville.

• 3:05:09Speaker 03

  Huntsville, Alabama.

• 3:05:10AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:05:11Speaker 03

  That's where it was. They had superluminal craft being built. And this brings us back to JP because JP says he was taken twice to a facility in northern Alabama where he saw these anti-gravity craft and Nordics.

• 3:05:28AJ Gentile?

  Superluminal, though, that breaks my brain. Do we know what technology they used to do that? Is this folding space? Is this extradimensional travel? Or is this something else? Warp drive?

• 3:05:42Speaker 03

  It would have had to have been something that

• 3:05:46AJ Gentile?

  Ali Carey drive?

• 3:05:47Speaker 03

  Was able to not just bend, well, yeah, bend spacetime, but also develop something along the lines of a tachyon drive. Tachyons. Because one of the leaked SS documents, supposedly that came out in the 1990s after the collapse of the Soviet Union, that was a former KGB file. There was a researcher, Vladimir Tuzinsky, who was the first to reveal these documents. And there was a Nazi SS document that showed three craft that looked suspiciously like the three craft that were on display at Norton Air Force Base in 1988.

• 3:06:28Speaker 03

  So these three craft had, these three, well, there were four models. There was a Thule model, and there were these Hanabu models. And the Hanabu models had these tachyonator drives. So what is a tachyon? It's a faster-than-light particle.

• 3:06:47AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:06:48Speaker 03

  That physicists know exists because the theory predicts it. It exists, but it's eschewed from mainstream physics. And again, I go to David Clements, who is a physicist from Cambridge. He got his PhD from Cambridge. And physics, he was a string theorist, and he taught at Cambridge for a little while. And he says, he confirms that tachyons are predicted in string theory, but string theorists are advised not to go there, not to look at these tachyons, to just eschew them, that this is like forbidden. It's like you will lose your career. You will lose funding if you start talking about tachyons.

• 3:07:32Speaker 03

  So we talk about Bearden, superluminal drives, him being an expert in free-energy scalar weapons, him working for a time out of Huntsville, Alabama, saying there's superluminal craft there. I think these superluminal crafts had something along the lines of tachyon propulsion systems in them that made them capable of that superluminal ability, which gave them the capability. And this is the one that really kind of stretches people's minds. It's like you can arrive at your destination before you depart for it.

• 3:08:16AJ Gentile?

  In relativity, the math works to do that.

• 3:08:20AJ Gentile?

  The math works.

• 3:08:25AJ Gentile?

  I can't explain it that well, but the math works.

• 3:08:30AJ Gentile?

  But I can't get my brain around getting a craft to do it. A particle, yes. But creating a nuts-and-bolts vehicle, I don't know how they can do that.

• 3:08:42Speaker 03

  Well, Bearden, I think, is a good resource to show or explain that such a thing is feasible.

• 3:08:51AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:08:51Speaker 03

  And then you have whistleblowers like Bill Tompkins talking about the Navy working on these kinds of advanced technology projects. And then you have all of the stories about Admiral Byrd, Operation High Jump, and the new enemy that could fly from pole to pole. Something's there.

• 3:09:11AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:09:13AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I mean, I guess if you energize a solid-body hull, it can create its own field. And they know how to manipulate that somehow.

• 3:09:25Speaker 03

  Well, there were those five patents that

• 3:09:29AJ Gentile?

  Salvatore Paez.

• 3:09:30Speaker 03

  Salvatore Paez came out. And one of them talked about creating this energy bubble

• 3:09:36AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:09:36Speaker 03

  that could be used to propel that craft at these, say, superluminal speeds or at speeds that are just far beyond our kind of like present white world science.

• 3:09:52AJ Gentile?

  I have to get him in here to talk about some of those wild patents of his.

• 3:09:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, and those patents were supported by the Navy. I mean, he

• 3:10:04AJ Gentile?

  Supported. They were rejected by the USPTO until the Navy intervened.

• 3:10:08Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 3:10:08AJ Gentile?

  And said, no, this is legit.

• 3:10:11Speaker 03

  Exactly. So, and again, this comes back to the earlier question we had about the fight between the dark hats.

• 3:10:18AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:10:18Speaker 03

  The ruling bloodline families and the white hats, the military, that want this information to come out. Paez was working for the Navy, working on behalf of them to reveal some of the technologies that have been secretly developed and used for decades in the secret space programs.

• 3:10:37AJ Gentile?

  He's definitely a white hat because I've talked about him being elusive in the media. And two days after that, he emailed me and said, oh, come on your show. So he's a white hat to me. It was very surprising that he's willing to come in and just talk about that stuff. So there are people pushing this.

• 3:10:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think the military has a lot of white hats in there that want all this stuff to come out. Because bottom line, why wouldn't you? If you're a four-star admiral or general, why wouldn't you want to have superluminal craft as part of your arsenal? As part of your means of being able to achieve full-spectrum domination in cis-lunar space and beyond?

• 3:11:22AJ Gentile?

  It's just, what do you do about your competitors? What do you do about Russia and China?

• 3:11:31AJ Gentile?

  Do they have it as well? Or is that a concern that once we show this exotic technology, then others will have it? And then we're back to fighting each other again?

• 3:11:43Speaker 03

  As far as I know, there's a lot of cooperation between the scene, behind the scenes, between Russia, China, when it comes to this advanced technology stuff. Now, the Russians and the Chinese have been developing their own secret space programs and studying retrieved craft for decades.

• 3:12:05AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:12:06Speaker 03

  But for various reasons, they are well behind the United States.

• 3:12:10AJ Gentile?

  They are.

• 3:12:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally. I mean, you look at the collapse of the Soviet Union, and that was because the Soviets understood that the US technological gap was so wide, and with the advent of even more sophisticated computer technologies, quantum computing, SDI and so forth, that there was no point competing. It was better to just cooperate. And so I think that's what happened, that's what led to the end of the Cold War, that the USSR was told that, well, it's better to merge our programs and you'll come in and you'll be subordinate, but nevertheless, you'll be a partner.

• 3:12:56Speaker 03

  And the Chinese, they have only recently developed the technological and economic infrastructure to start becoming a serious competitor. But they're only recent, I'm not saying recently, but they've done that.

• 3:13:11AJ Gentile?

  But they're doing it.

• 3:13:12Speaker 03

  Now.

• 3:13:13AJ Gentile?

  They're doing it. There might be something to that about the end of the Cold War, because remember when, after the Soviet Union dissolved, a lot of documents came out, we can see them in the CIA reading room, that in the early 40s, their advanced technology programs were estimated to be about 40 years ahead of ours. So they get Sputnik in space, and they do all, they do everything in space first. But then something happened in the late 60s, where it switched, where we springboard over them. Do you have any theories on what happened?

• 3:13:47Speaker 03

  Well, then, their main guy, the Sergio Korolev, the main guy working on their rocket program was killed, or died.

• 3:13:58AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:13:59Speaker 03

  66, 67. And that really set them back, because, I mean, he was, he was, well, more than Von Braun, I mean, he was, he was a Russian native, and he was a genius.

• 3:14:11AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:12Speaker 03

  And you just can't lose people like that if you're setting up a secret, or you're setting up a space program and you're trying to understand these very advanced technologies. You might, you might just have one or two people that are really out there in terms of their mental capacity to understand and, and develop these technologies. And I think with his death, the Soviets pretty much gave up on the race to the moon. And then you had the kind of slow demise of the Soviet Union afterwards. So, so something was helping the US in moving forward in their secret space program.

• 3:14:56AJ Gentile?

  I think so too. And when Kennedy gives a speech and offers to go to the moon with the Soviets as partners, and then, and then is dead shortly after, that would, that would have changed geopolitics forever, if it was a joint mission between the United States and the Soviet Union to the moon?

• 3:15:19Speaker 03

  That's right. Yes. That on November 11, 1963, so this is 11 days, 11 days before the assassination, Nikita Khrushchev and Kennedy agreed for joint space cooperation.

• 3:15:35AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:15:36Speaker 03

  Between the US and USSR. And they would share all pertinent files to enable space cooperation and joint missions to the moon. And part of the condition, and again, this takes us to the leaked Majestic documents, and there's good reason, and actually, there are some leaked, well, actually, a FOIA document, NSAM, NSAM 271.

• 3:16:01AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:16:02Speaker 03

  Talks about NASA and the Soviet, Soviet space program sharing files.

• 3:16:09AJ Gentile?

  That is, and Sam, that's a real document for sure.

• 3:16:12Speaker 03

  Exactly. And so there's also leaked Majestic documents that dovetail with that, that say that the CIA had to share its classified UFO files.

• 3:16:24AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:16:25Speaker 03

  With NASA, so that it could fulfill its obligations to share files with the Soviet Union. And of course, the people running the secret space programs knew that this was Kennedy's Enron around the CIA's blocking him getting access to the classified files. And James Jesus Angleton, as the CIA's counterintelligence head, who was responsible for the classified CIA files, he implemented the Majestic, the Majestic Directive, or the Magic Directive. And one of those directives was called Project Environment, which was a cryptic assassination

• 3:17:08Speaker 03

  directive that said, when the environment is non-conducive to growth in Washington, DC, it must be wet. Well, why was it written that way? Well, because there's secretaries that type out these directives. And if, and the secretary types out a directive saying, well, if any president gets out of line and threatens our operations, he should be eliminated. You can imagine a secretary typing that out, how she would react. So you have a cryptic phrase, and, but that phrase is very clear for people in the intelligence community, that you kill them. And, and that's exactly what happened 11 days later with the Kennedy assassination.

• 3:17:51Speaker 03

  And that was, I think, directly related to that November 11 agreement between Khrushchev and Kennedy.

• 3:18:00AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:18:01Speaker 03

  That information files concerning UFOs needed to be shared as part of this joint lunar and space operation.

• 3:18:09AJ Gentile?

  If you follow the Kennedy assassination threads far enough, you will always end up at UFOs. You'll end up at the Moray Island incident, you'll end up, you'll find Guy Bannister, and all these characters that you know from the JFK movie, they're all involved, and it all goes back to the UFO retrieval in Northwest. The Kenneth Arnold sighting happened like two weeks earlier from Moray Island, and all those characters end up in New Orleans, plotting to kill a president.

• 3:18:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, another.

• 3:18:41AJ Gentile?

  David Ferry.

• 3:18:42Speaker 03

  Well, another element to all of that, that kind of like crazy, but I'll throw it out there, because we've been talking about it. Is that Joseph Kennedy, his father, people know that he had deals with the mafia, and he had.

• 3:18:58AJ Gentile?

  That's how Chicago was won.

• 3:18:59Speaker 03

  That's how Chicago was won. Well, what, what people don't appreciate is that Joe Kennedy was also a supporter of Nazi Germany.

• 3:19:07AJ Gentile?

  He was.

• 3:19:08Speaker 03

  As Britain's ambassador, he was a sympathizer for the Nazis. And so.

• 3:19:13AJ Gentile?

  The Dulles Brothers as well.

• 3:19:15Speaker 03

  Dulles Brothers as well. And so it's like agreements were reached in the 1950s with the, with the Fourth Reich. What role did Joe Kennedy play in that? What role did Joe Kennedy play in getting the Fourth Reich to support his son being elevated to, from a junior senator from Massachusetts, to become the President of the United States? Did the, did this Fourth Reich support that? And if the Fourth Reich felt that, well, after Joe Kennedy became incapacitated, and

• 3:19:54Speaker 03

  the Kennedys were now suddenly going their own path, and not supporting the Fourth Reich agenda, because if the Fourth Reich wanted everything to keep, to be kept secret.

• 3:20:07AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:20:08Speaker 03

  And here, the Kennedy brothers are wanting to share files with the, with the Soviets, and they're wanting to have these UFO files become more transparent or circulated, at the very least, among the major US institutions, like the State Department and so forth, then the Kennedys would have been a threat to the, to the secrecy.

• 3:20:31AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:20:32Speaker 03

  And so, could the Germans have played a role in that as well? So, it's, it's something to kind of throw into the mix.

• 3:20:41AJ Gentile?

  I hadn't considered the, the Germans. I always thought it was a, a deep state plot. But you lean Fourth Reich on Kennedy?

• 3:20:55Speaker 03

  I think the ones that were in control of the UFO secrecy

• 3:20:59AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:21:00Speaker 03

  Totally were in control of that and they co-opted other elements. Whether it was the CIA, whether it was the Corsican mafia, whether it was other gangsters from the United States, disaffected Cuban exiles, that they co-opted all of them to do the dirty work. But that this Majestic 12 group were the ones that were ultimately behind it. And you can trace it to Alan Dulles. And Alan Dulles was the guy that made the agreements with the Germans. So to what extent are the Germans involved?

• 3:21:41Speaker 03

  Well, we know Alan Dulles, the Majestic 12 group were involved in these directives. There's a paper trial and very recently it's been proved that there was a, the Majestic document that revealed a lot of the, well, revealed the Bern memo, the famous Bern memo, the one that said that there was this cryptic assassination directive, that that was actually leaked by this CIA operative, Newton Scotty Miller.

• 3:22:17AJ Gentile?

  Now, wasn't that the document that was supposedly planted in the archives by Shandoray and Moore? The Bern memo?

• 3:22:26Speaker 03

  That one, I think that was a Majestic document.

• 3:22:30AJ Gentile?

  It was a Majestic?

• 3:22:31Speaker 03

  That was the Majestic document that Stanton Freeman found when he went into the archives.

• 3:22:40AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:22:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was something that referred to Operation Majestic, which supported the reality of the Majestic program.

• 3:22:54AJ Gentile?

  But look at the mess we're in again. We're back to Bill Moore and Doty with the documents. So the Majestic documents look legit, but because these guys are attached to it, we're back to the fake diplomas on the wall.

• 3:23:09Speaker 03

  Well, there is that, but Newton Scotty Miller wasn't Richard Doty. I mean, he was actually a counterintelligence officer that worked under James Angus Angleton. And from the very beginning, that Bern memo was part of a collection of Majestic documents that were

• 3:23:32Speaker 03

  rescued from an attempt to burn them because Angleton had died and that a directive was put out by the CIA's counterintelligence division to burn anything that Angleton had. And Newton Scotty Miller was one of Angleton's operatives and he knew the importance of these documents and he's rescued them from the fire. So he's a legitimate covert operative with the CIA's counterintelligence. Does that mean that he's another Doty?

• 3:24:10AJ Gentile?

  I don't know.

• 3:24:10Speaker 03

  That's, some can make that question. But I think if you wanted to support the legitimacy of the Majestic documents that are connected to the Kennedy assassination, we know that one of the sources, S1, was in fact a known CIA counterintelligence operative that worked directly under Angleton. And that operative, when he leaked the documents, said that these documents were rescued from a fire. And they actually show evidence of smoke and fire damage.

• 3:24:47AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, Forrestal didn't jump from that window.

• 3:24:51AJ Gentile?

  No, he was pushed out of that window.

• 3:24:55Speaker 03

  I totally agree with that.

• 3:24:57AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:24:58Speaker 03

  And Forrestal was someone, well, Secretary of Defense, Secretary of the Navy.

• 3:25:07Speaker 03

  He was.

• 3:25:09AJ Gentile?

  First Secretary of Defense.

• 3:25:12Speaker 03

  Exactly, First Secretary of Defense. So he was read into a lot of the programs and he knew about the, what Tompkins was working on with the US Navy. And there's orders that Tompkins has released that are connected to James Forrestal. But the really interesting thing about Forrestal is that he and President Kennedy were, well, Kennedy was Forrestal's protege. That Forrestal took Kennedy to occupied Germany after the Second World War and showed him the facilities, the German facilities

• 3:25:54Speaker 03

  that held the most advanced technologies that were of interest to the US Navy.

• 3:26:01AJ Gentile?

  I think Ike told JFK some things too.

• 3:26:05Speaker 03

  That's right, that's right.

• 3:26:07AJ Gentile?

  Because Kennedy would call him up and ask him about stuff. And one of the things Eisenhower said was, don't trust the CIA.

• 3:26:15Speaker 03

  Interesting, interesting.

• 3:26:18Speaker 03

  So Forrestal knew a lot of the stuff

• 3:26:20AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:26:20Speaker 03

  and had told Kennedy a lot of the stuff while, well, while Kennedy was, because Forrestal was trying to recruit Kennedy to his office, but eventually Kennedy was persuaded by his father to enter politics and fill in the role that his older brother would have filled in. And so Kennedy became a politician, but he and Forrestal maintained a close relationship. And up until 49, they regularly met. And Forrestal was, I think, killed

• 3:26:55AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:26:55Speaker 03

  because he was breaking ranks. He was revealing things to different members of Congress, including Kennedy, about what was really going on with the management of the extraterrestrial files. And so they decided to eliminate Forrestal. And that's what happened. And then in 1963, in April.

• 3:27:21AJ Gentile?

  Did JFK ever comment on Forrestal's death?

• 3:27:25Speaker 03

  Not directly, indirectly he did. Because in 1963, before he went to Homestead, White Sands Missile Range, where there were a bunch of project paperclip scientists. Before he went there, he visited the grave of James Forrestal. And so there's a picture of him. And in my book, I got that picture of Kennedy visiting the grave of James Forrestal. This is in April, just a week before he's to fly off to White Sands to meet with the paperclip German scientists that are running the programs there, that are really in charge of a lot of these UFO files or the reverse engineering, what's going on.

• 3:28:11Speaker 03

  And I think he was seeking advice, soulless. But the kind of non-verbal message there is that he was following in the path of Forrestal in confronting the powers that be in releasing this information. And it was ultimately a losing battle.

• 3:28:36AJ Gentile?

  He followed Forrestal all the way to the end.

• 3:28:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, both he and Forrestal are real American heroes.

• 3:28:44AJ Gentile?

  They really were. It was that November 11th speech that would have changed the course of history. It's one of those hinge points

• 3:28:54AJ Gentile?

  that leads to his assassination, which changed history for the worse.

• 3:28:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, Kennedy definitely was a person that wanted to reveal a lot of the UFO information. But I think he wanted to do it in a very methodical way. I think if he had survived in 1964, he would have circulated the files to the Department of State, to other public officials.

• 3:29:26AJ Gentile?

  He would have brought the Soviets in as partners.

• 3:29:28Speaker 03

  Exactly. Similar to what's happening today under President Trump. What you're having now is you're not having a lot of these files or the information concerning crashed UFOs, reverse engineering of extraterrestrial craft, being released to the general public. That's not what President Trump has done. What he's done is he's issued directives freeing whistleblowers from their NDAs or giving them waivers from any kind of agreements they've reached with aerospace companies and so forth, to reveal what they know to the PURSUE program.

• 3:30:12Speaker 03

  That's the President's Presidential Unsealing and Records System for UAP encounters.

• 3:30:20AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:30:21Speaker 03

  So he is making it possible, Trump is making it possible, for that information to be shared more widely in the bureaucracy. And that is the way Kennedy was trying to do it as well. So Trump is following the footsteps of Kennedy. First, you release these files to the bureaucracy, so it gets circulated around. And then, once it does, more and more people look at all this stuff and say, this needs to be released. And so you have the momentum coming from the system itself. But if you try and do it on your own, you'll get bumped off. And so that's what Trump is doing, you know? He's not doing it on his own.

• 3:31:00Speaker 03

  He's trying to get the bureaucracy to share this information more widely. And I think his genius move was to set up the Space Force and the Space Command and come up with this doctrinal shift. So all of a sudden, you take the whole topic of UFOs out of the domain of the intelligence community and you put it into the domain of the future of warfighting. How do we deal with these kinds of threats? And so what Trump has done is he's set up the bureaucracy

• 3:31:40Speaker 03

  to become his allies in releasing the UFO files, in releasing the truth of what's going on. So that's why I'm much more confident that Trump will succeed, whereas Kennedy ultimately failed.

• 3:31:54AJ Gentile?

  Well, there's been attempts on Trump's life as well.

• 3:31:58AJ Gentile?

  Do you think there's more to those stories than what we hear in the media?

• 3:32:04Speaker 03

  I think the Butler assassination attempt is a classic. On the one hand, you have the deep state coming within a centimeter of assassinating Trump. But on the other hand, you have the white hats showing the deep state.

• 3:32:25Speaker 03

  You gave it your best shot. You couldn't pull it off because we have better technology than you. We can anticipate your moves and we have the means to protect our people. And so they're protecting Trump and they're doing it.

• 3:32:43AJ Gentile?

  They are? You think they are?

• 3:32:45Speaker 03

  Totally, yeah. I think there've been multiple assassination attempts on Trump and the white hats get tipped off. How do they get tipped off? Well, the people who have the superior time travel technologies or the chronovisor technologies can see further ahead.

• 3:33:05AJ Gentile?

  Where is that? Where is that device? Who has that device? And how does it work?

• 3:33:10Speaker 03

  Well, that gets us to the

• 3:33:13Speaker 03

  whole extraterrestrial element here, like the

• 3:33:16AJ Gentile?

  I think.

• 3:33:16Speaker 03

  Trump working with this Galactic Federation and the whole Haim Esched

• 3:33:22AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:33:23Speaker 03

  narrative, you've heard of that.

• 3:33:24AJ Gentile?

  I have.

• 3:33:25Speaker 03

  Okay, now Haim Esched talked about that in 2019 and Trump is working with the Galactic Federation, there's deals, they have a base on Mars and so forth. And so who is Haim Esched? Well, he's very credible. And then he disappears for seven years after revealing all this and everyone thinks he's crazy.

• 3:33:48AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:33:49Speaker 03

  All his former colleagues think he's crazy. He disappears and now he comes forward seven years later and he pops up with Yuri Geller and Geller saying, hey, yeah, that Trump's working with the Galactic Federation and that the Galactic Federation has bases in northern Israel and they are doing all this stuff. It's pretty wild stuff, but I think that the bottom line is that there are benign extraterrestrial groups.

• 3:34:23AJ Gentile?

  So this is an intergalactic community of races.

• 3:34:29Speaker 03

  There's an organization.

• 3:34:31AJ Gentile?

  An organization.

• 3:34:31Speaker 03

  An organization. People give it different names. Galactic Federation is a name given to it by Haim Esched and because he's the most credible source out there. He, his testimony kind of has carries a little bit of weight. And so he's saying that they are working with the Trump administration and I and I believe that the Trump administration, Space Force are working with benign extraterrestrials to reveal a lot of these advanced technologies to protect people like Trump who are critical for this shift to move forward.

• 3:35:15Speaker 03

  And that we're fast reaching the point, we probably think we've reached the point. Now, on the one hand, you can put disclosure like into the basket of like, well, we want it to happen. All the, all the signs show that it's going to happen, but we don't know when and how.

• 3:35:35AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:35:35Speaker 03

  But what you can put into the inevitable basket that's

• 3:35:41Speaker 03

  unstoppable is that humanity is moving into an interplanetary society. That can't be stopped.

• 3:35:50AJ Gentile?

  That can't be stopped.

• 3:35:51Speaker 03

  It's already a done deal. It's already happened. You have the Artemis Accords, 70 nations

• 3:35:59AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:35:59Speaker 03

  that have signed on to these bilateral agreements with NASA to develop space. You have the US Space Command that has signed agreements with other major spacefaring nations to collaborate militarily in space. Germany, France, Australia, Canada, Britain and so forth.

• 3:36:28Speaker 03

  You actually have the Secretary of the Air Force coming forward, saying that we have developed weapons in Earth orbit. It's a done deal. It's no question now.

• 3:36:42Speaker 03

  Space is a contested battlefield that the United States has weapons in space. You have Trump talking about, openly talking about an American Starfleet where they're going to use nuclear propulsion systems for thousands of spacecraft.

• 3:36:59AJ Gentile?

  Who is the enemy?

• 3:37:05Speaker 03

  They're leaving that vague.

• 3:37:06AJ Gentile?

  They are.

• 3:37:07Speaker 03

  They're leaving that vague and of course

• 3:37:10AJ Gentile?

  The reptilians, the P-52s, I hear.

• 3:37:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're leaking, they're leaving that open, but a lot of, a lot of rumors are out there. But that's, that's incontestable that Trump has said that an American space fleet is being built with thousands of starships. He's, and he said 2028, this is Trump's on the record, 2028. The first nuclear powered spacecraft under space for Space Force will be going out and there'll be thousands of these.

• 3:37:44AJ Gentile?

  Does the next president continue this work?

• 3:37:47Speaker 03

  It's inevitable because the dynamic has been shed, has been set up. It's no longer

• 3:37:53AJ Gentile?

  Well, I think.

• 3:37:53Speaker 03

  a presidential initiative, it is now military.

• 3:37:56AJ Gentile?

  Only Trump could have gotten around the families. Only Trump could have done that for being a wealthy outsider. If it was a Washington, just a Washington swamp rat.

• 3:38:09Speaker 03

  He was fought against tooth and nail.

• 3:38:11AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 3:38:11Speaker 03

  As we know, that they tried to stop him at every step, but now.

• 3:38:15AJ Gentile?

  But if you get, if you get a Marco Rubio or a Democrat mainstream, I feel like they're very easily controlled.

• 3:38:27Speaker 03

  They are easily controlled, but what's shifted is that now you have the military industrial complex on site. On the one hand, the families were like against this.

• 3:38:37AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:38:37Speaker 03

  Trying to stop it. But what Trump's genius has done is that he's got the military industrial complex on site. Now.

• 3:38:44AJ Gentile?

  Good point.

• 3:38:45Speaker 03

  He's, and he's got companies like SpaceX and Elon Musk. Musk is building giga factories.

• 3:38:52AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:38:52Speaker 03

  He's all, and he's on the record, he's saying they're going to build thousands of starships, thousands of starships every year that they build, they're going to build a thousand starships. And that this is, this is what's on the way. And, and that Musk was just nominated to be the head of Project Meridian, which is the future technological innovation in warfighting. And this is where space comes in. So this is inevitable. We are becoming an interplanetary civilization.

• 3:39:29AJ Gentile?

  We're going to have a trillionaire on our team.

• 3:39:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:39:32AJ Gentile?

  That's helpful.

• 3:39:33Speaker 03

  He's, yeah, he's on our, he's on our side. And, and this is where you have all the major corporations that are going to be building these new generation craft. And they're going to be initially the bridge to this more advanced stuff that Lockheed and Northrop Grumman and Boeing have built for decades secretly for the families and the intelligence community. But at some point, you're going to have all of that, all of that being bridged in this future society, in this future, in a planetary civilization. But you know, the very fact that Trump used the words, a massive American Starfleet.

• 3:40:18Speaker 03

  It's like, this is coming. It can't be stopped. Even if Democrats come in, they can't oppose the military industrial complex.

• 3:40:28AJ Gentile?

  They cannot.

• 3:40:29Speaker 03

  I mean, how can, how can Democrats come in and say, well, Trump brought about a rapid increase in the Pentagon budget to 1.5 trillion for the 2027 NDAA.

• 3:40:41AJ Gentile?

  Democrats love that too.

• 3:40:42Speaker 03

  We want to reverse that because that's unjust.

• 3:40:46AJ Gentile?

  Knock it out.

• 3:40:47Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 3:40:48AJ Gentile?

  No, we won't even, we'll never get an audit out of them.

• 3:40:52Speaker 03

  Exactly. So, so that's inevitable. And.

• 3:40:55AJ Gentile?

  It's, it's reassuring to hear because I always felt that the, that the military contractors were the enemy. But if, if you get them on your side, then it is inevitable.

• 3:41:07Speaker 03

  Exactly, the bottom line, you, you know, Trump being a businessman, he knew, he knew how, he knew how to do it. He knew how to. How do you get the military industrial complex on site? Well, you set up the financial incentive for them to do so. You get the military on board because they want the best warfighting toys for space.

• 3:41:27AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 3:41:28Speaker 03

  Who wouldn't?

• 3:41:28AJ Gentile?

  Who wouldn't?

• 3:41:29Speaker 03

  Exactly. So you get all of them on site. Then disclosure becomes inevitable because.

• 3:41:37AJ Gentile?

  Well, then it's normalized.

• 3:41:39Speaker 03

  And, and the thing is, you're not going to shock, there's not going to be the analogical shock.

• 3:41:42AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 3:41:43Speaker 03

  Oh, well, there's these reptilians out there that have been abducting humans or grays, abducting humans and using them for all sorts of nefarious things. Well, all of a sudden we got Space Force and Space Command and an American Starfleet out there with thousands of really incredibly well armed spacecraft that are armed to the teeth to fight battles. It's like, well, that's pretty reassuring to know that, right? Yeah, tell us about the extraterrestrials, I'm not so scared now.

• 3:42:14AJ Gentile?

  It's true. It's the way to get it done is why do we need Space Force? Well, because these are real. The lizard people are real? Yeah, they're real. Here's the budget, let's go.

• 3:42:23Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly. And that also explains why after you had Space Force.

• 3:42:33Speaker 03

  Established by Trump, why Netflix came up with this ridiculous series called Space Force? If you remember that, that was kind of like, just made it out to be this big joke. Because that's what the families wanted to do. They wanted to make it out to be a big joke. Oh yeah, Space Force is a big joke. Ha, ha, ha. These guys are inept. You know, it's, we shouldn't take it seriously. And of course, under the Biden administration, there really wasn't all that much that was happening to help Space Force move forward. But now, under the second Trump administration, it's being turbocharged. We've got, space weapons are being declared.

• 3:43:14Speaker 03

  Cis lunar space is being, is going to be defended as future warfighting. And American Starfleet, Musk being appointed to be the technology czar for future warfighting. It's like, okay, this is, this is where the big bucks are. This is where the high tech is being developed. And then, and now they're developing this superintelligence. What's all that about? Well, I think they're developing the means to be able to control renegade AI on planet Earth.

• 3:43:49AJ Gentile?

  You absolutely need to prepare for that.

• 3:43:53AJ Gentile?

  That is not a joke. You need to prepare for that. I want to shift gears if that's okay. We can come back if you want to. 2003.

• 3:44:04AJ Gentile?

  The United States, once again, is bombing countries and invading countries. Over the course of three days,

• 3:44:12AJ Gentile?

  the museum,

• 3:44:15AJ Gentile?

  the main museum in Iraq is looted and something like 10,000 artifacts are missing, including still under seals, going back to ancient Sumer. And it has been alleged, I have alleged it, that there is ancient technology on those scrolls and in those artifacts. And that that wasn't a random looting, that the war was a cover to go in there and get that stuff. And we know that the first Gulf War was based on a lie. That's a fact. That's a fact, Jack. I think the second one was as well. Do you think there's ancient tech out there?

• 3:44:49Speaker 03

  Totally, yeah. That, very advanced technologies. And

• 3:44:57Speaker 03

  when you look at the cuneiform texts, one of the things that becomes very, very clear is that the Anunnaki had two forms of propulsion that they used for travel between their home world and Earth. And it was, on the one hand, you had something very similar to rocket technology. So that would explain Baalbek and the building massive spaceports in the region. You have these massive spaceports where rockets would land and you could ferry people, supplies, gold and so forth, back and forth.

• 3:45:43Speaker 03

  And so that was one technology that was widely used by the Anunnaki.

• 3:45:50Speaker 03

  The second technology were portals.

• 3:45:53AJ Gentile?

  Were portals?

• 3:45:54Speaker 03

  Portals, gateways, stargates. And these were used by the elite, the Anunnaki elite. So these were not for the rank and file, Anunnaki, the Iqigee and so forth. These would only be the elite that could use these kinds of portal technologies. And

• 3:46:17AJ Gentile?

  And I believe these led to Atlantis, to the Yucatan Peninsula, to, I think, probably Manoa. Right? These, these major civilizations, these ancient civilizations. You think there's something to that, to Atlantis?

• 3:46:33Speaker 03

  There's connections between these civilizations. And, you know, this is where it gets really wild, is that they are not ancient civilizations that are long extinct. They are existing right now. Of course, they're in a completely different spacetime bubble than us.

• 3:46:56AJ Gentile?

  They are? Like an alternate universe?

• 3:46:59Speaker 03

  It's kind of like that, kind of like an alternate universe. I mean, that there's technology, portals, that you could step through this portal and you would walk into ancient Atlantis.

• 3:47:12AJ Gentile?

  So time travel as well?

• 3:47:15Speaker 03

  Time travel, being able to move between different spacetime bubbles. Because I think that's how we could regard it, that time is not, people talk about that, that time is not linear. It's like all happening at the same time.

• 3:47:33AJ Gentile?

  Yes, I think that's true.

• 3:47:35Speaker 03

  And so if Atlantis is happening at the same time as us, so that means right now, if you and I went through a spacetime portal and we show up in Atlantis and we start saying, hey, wow, this is fantastic. You know, you guys, your civilization is going to collapse in five years' time, that we're from the future? They'd have us committed. You guys are crazy.

• 3:48:01AJ Gentile?

  I'd love to see it.

• 3:48:04AJ Gentile?

  The portal tech is, the portal tech is one of the technologies alleged to be, that was looted from the museum. That's one of the technologies. I did a whole episode on the, on the portal tech. And it starts with the looting of the museum.

• 3:48:17Speaker 03

  And there seems to be a kind of sacred geometry or very intricate mathematics behind how to activate and use these portals? And that the cuneiform texts talked about that? And, and so that's where they really needed to get access to those cuneiform texts. So there's one, it's one thing to get your hands on the hardware, like the actual portal, Stargate, whatever it is, but then knowing how to use it is another thing. So that's where they needed the cuneiform texts to understand how to utilize these technologies. Because it seems that

• 3:48:59Speaker 03

  it's very intricate and it requires a very advanced understanding of mathematics, sacred geometry, to be able to do that. And so they were seeking that information at the time.

• 3:49:13AJ Gentile?

  Do you think they got one to work? Is that a version of the Chronovisor?

• 3:49:21Speaker 03

  Well, the Chronovisor, I mean, that goes back to Ernesto

• 3:49:24AJ Gentile?

  Father Anetti.

• 3:49:26Speaker 03

  Father Anetti and, and what was discovered in the 1950s and 60s through this technology. And you had the outer limits kind of like making that something that was accessible to the public or something that would permeate into the public consciousness.

• 3:49:46AJ Gentile?

  That's true.

• 3:49:47Speaker 03

  So that technology, Chronovisor technology, being able to look at different timelines.

• 3:49:54AJ Gentile?

  He was a trained physicist, Father Anetti.

• 3:49:55Speaker 03

  Right, yeah. Well, the Vatican has a lot of very highly trained priests who are scientists.

• 3:50:01AJ Gentile?

  Oh, yes, they do.

• 3:50:02Speaker 03

  Because they have their hands on this advanced, and they're full partners with the US. A lot of, a lot of, a lot of Vatican scientists have been working in these classified programs, trying to understand, reverse engineer these recovered technologies, portal technologies, cuneiform texts, as are, as are the Israelis, the Mossad. And, and, and I mean, that was one of the things that I found very curious about James Jesus Angleton was that as CIA counterintelligence chief, he only had responsibility for three desks. Three desks, you know, one, one was CIA counterintelligence, the other was the Vatican, and the other was

• 3:50:46Speaker 03

  Israel and the Mossad. So you have to ask yourself, what is the connection? What is the parallel to all those things? And I think with Israel, it's like Israel is a very ancient land. And because it's been such a hotly contested zone for thousands of years, I mean, the Crusades, what, what, what was all that about? The Crusades and why do the Muslims attach so much significance to Jerusalem and the, it's because that has very powerful energy vortices there.

• 3:51:27Speaker 03

  And what goes with that is very, very ancient technologies.

• 3:51:32AJ Gentile?

  But to have the Vatican and Mossad, that confuses me because the Nazis couldn't have gotten out of there without the Vatican's help.

• 3:51:44AJ Gentile?

  I mean, the Vatican was very complicit in the Nazi rat lines and getting gold out. I think a lot of the gold went to the Vatican, to be honest. So you don't get farther away from Nazis than Mossad, because that's the whole other side of the spectrum. So what's going on there? Is the Fourth Reich allowed to exist? I mean, Nazi hunters went...

• 3:52:08Speaker 03

  Well, the Fourth Reich existed, it was allowed to exist. The Vatican played a role in the rat lines and all of that. And they were collaborating with all sides to develop these technologies. Because from the Vatican perspective, from the perspective of their scientists, it's like, these guys have access to technologies going back thousands of years. I mean, the Vatican library, they have technologies that are very old, very ancient. They're trying to understand them. And so their primary goal is like, well, we want to understand these technologies.

• 3:52:50Speaker 03

  If we're going to work with Fourth Reich Nazis, sure, no problem. If we're going to work with Mossad, sure, no problem. We have no problem with that.

• 3:53:01AJ Gentile?

  Just opportunism.

• 3:53:03Speaker 03

  Okay, we want to know about these technologies. And the US military industrial complex is like, well, we want to know about these technologies as well. And the Vatican, well, you've got the world's oldest and best intelligence service. So we want to be full partners with you.

• 3:53:20AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 3:53:20Speaker 03

  And the Mossad, it's like, well, you guys have access to this ancient stuff down there under that whole territory, Palestine, which is really very advanced, very sophisticated. And we don't understand a lot of that. So we want to work with you and gaining access and reverse engineering all of that. And from the perspective of the Mossad, it's like, yeah, we want to work with the US military industrial complex. Because we want to watch the Germans, the Fourth Reich. We want to see what they're up to, because they're our enemies. They're our mortal enemies. And why is that? That's a very interesting question.

• 3:54:02AJ Gentile?

  It is.

• 3:54:05AJ Gentile?

  Do you think the Fourth Reich exists? Do you think it survived?

• 3:54:11Speaker 03

  I think it survived. I think it continues to operate, maybe in a diminished form to what it once did. Because I think the creation of Space Force has changed the dynamic in our solar system. That, as far as I know, that our solar system has many different extraterrestrial races that have been here for a long, long time. They have monitoring the Earth. They saw our history. But now, they are working with the Trump administration and what we would consider to be more enlightened factions

• 3:54:52Speaker 03

  that want to ensure that Earth evolves in a responsible way and that the US Space Force and Space Command are going to be the seed of this future planetary organization. Now, one of the sources I work with, he says that the name of this organization has already been revealed, and he calls it the United Earth Space Command. But that exists.

• 3:55:24AJ Gentile?

  That exists.

• 3:55:24Speaker 03

  That is an amalgam of Space Force and the Solar Warden program. And it is integrating the Russians, the Chinese, and the Americans, and Five Eyes, and the major European nations, India, and so forth. So the extraterrestrial civilizations are looking at all of this. And it's substantiated by what we're seeing. Because there's no real pushback to what Space Force and what the Trump administration is announcing.

• 3:55:58AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 3:55:59Speaker 03

  There's an American Space Force, sorry, there's an American space fleet that's being developed that Earth, that Space Force has weapons, platforms.

• 3:56:10AJ Gentile?

  Totally, of course.

• 3:56:11Speaker 03

  There's no big pushback. Why isn't the United Nations Security Council having all these nations come forward saying, this is an abomination? This is not consistent with the Outer Space Treaty? We've all signed the Outer Space Treaty. No one's putting up a fuss. Why?

• 3:56:31Speaker 03

  Because there are agreements that the United States is giving a lot of nations that have signed on to the Artemis Accord exposure to these future technologies. And that is happening at Green Mountain, Alabama. And I've talked about that with JP. He says that he was taken there twice and that he saw international pilots from 30 nations or more being trained by these Nordic-looking extraterrestrials to fly these hybrid spacecraft. So there's the carrot.

• 3:57:12Speaker 03

  Because that's one of the things I look at in terms of, as a political scientist. It's like, well, why in the world are the nations, the major space-faring nations, signing on to the Artemis Accords, which are bilateral agreements making the US the top dog in terms of the future of space? Why are they doing that? What's the big carrot here? Why aren't they saying, this has to be done through the United Nations as a multilateral agreement, like we did with the Outer Space Treaty and with the Moon Treaty and so forth?

• 3:57:42AJ Gentile?

  It would never work.

• 3:57:44Speaker 03

  It wouldn't work.

• 3:57:44AJ Gentile?

  It wouldn't work.

• 3:57:45Speaker 03

  Wouldn't work. And it's because the US has a big carrot.

• 3:57:49AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:57:50Speaker 03

  And they're offering any nation that signs on to the Artemis Accords exposure to this program.

• 3:58:00AJ Gentile?

  But there's always another side to the carrot. Stick.

• 3:58:07Speaker 03

  Countries like Iran are being given the stick. Venezuela being given the stick. That's what happens.

• 3:58:14AJ Gentile?

  That's what happens.

• 3:58:17Speaker 03

  And this takes us to this inevitable development of our planet becoming an interplanetary civilization, where the United States Space Force, Space Command, and this new entity, United Earth Space Command, is at the center. Now, the galactics are looking at all of this. And they're saying, okay, the humans are getting their house in order. So we no longer have to deal with these renegade, dark-fleet, German Fourth Reich...

• 3:58:55AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:58:56Speaker 03

  Racists.

• 3:58:57AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:58:57Speaker 03

  Supremacists that want to work with the Dracula reptilians in their, you know, "The galaxy for the Dracula empire!" And it's like, well, we no longer need to work with them. So what's happening?

• 3:59:10AJ Gentile?

  Can't let the lizard people take over. We can't allow it.

• 3:59:12Speaker 03

  Exactly. So the lizard people, they're not being allowed to take over. And so now, the influence of the dark fleet is being rolled back big time in our solar system and beyond. So for the moment, it'll be, humanity is going to become an interplanetary civilization. I don't know how long that'll last for. A decade, two decades? But at some point, this advanced technology, the superluminal technology that's being used by Solar Warden will be revealed. And then we will quickly transition into an interstellar civilization.

• 3:59:57AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:59:57Speaker 03

  So by the 2040s and beyond, it's very likely that...

• 4:00:01AJ Gentile?

  That fast?

• 4:00:03Speaker 03

  It's going to happen really quick. First, it's going to be, I would say, in the next 10 to 15 years, we are going to shift into an interplanetary civilization with all the advanced technology that makes that possible being revealed. And the energy technologies, the propulsion technologies will be slowly upgraded to make that possible. And then at some point, we're going to have the big reveal that, yeah, extraterrestrials are real. And then we're going to have the transition into interstellar civilization.

• 4:00:45Speaker 03

  And that's when things are going to move forward really, really quickly. And, yeah, we will become an interstellar civilization, which will be incredible, because that'll mean that

• 4:01:02Speaker 03

  in 10, 15 years' time, people will no longer just be limited to, like, getting on a starship or a Blue Origin craft for a tour of the moon and Mars, but you can go for a tour of Alpha Centauri.

• 4:01:19AJ Gentile?

  Yes. He said Nordics. That is a big deal. That is opening a big door.

• 4:01:29AJ Gentile?

  That is not crash retrieval. That is they are out there and they're here.

• 4:01:35Speaker 03

  And he was, I think he was given the approval for that.

• 4:01:41AJ Gentile?

  Yes, of course.

• 4:01:42Speaker 03

  And Joe Rogan was probably given the green light to reveal this. I think it's coordinated. I don't think it's accidental that Joe Rogan is the one to like have that information come out.

• 4:01:55AJ Gentile?

  It's the biggest platform on the planet and it's a friendly room. You don't want to, everybody likes Ross Coldheart, but you don't want to do it on that show. You want to do it on Joe's show.

• 4:02:07AJ Gentile?

  You know, you want a friendly room.

• 4:02:10Speaker 03

  So now that's made it something that opens people's imagination

• 4:02:15AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 4:02:15Speaker 03

  to these bigger disclosures that are coming.

• 4:02:20Speaker 03

  And yeah, I think we are being prepared for the revelation that there are multiple extraterrestrials out there and some are our friends and that we're working with them. And they're helping us develop interplanetary and interstellar spacecraft and communication systems.

• 4:02:42AJ Gentile?

  Our conversation is going to get destroyed by mainstream coverage, skeptics and so forth. And what frustrates me about skeptics, especially ones that are professional skeptics,

• 4:02:56AJ Gentile?

  I'm someone who's open-minded to conspiracies and I'm wrong most of the time, but not all the time. The skeptics, they can never be right because as conspiracies get proven true, the skeptics get embarrassed. So if you talk about Nordics, you've been made fun of for talking about these species over, you've been doing this 25 years. David Grush said it. That's a whole different part of history now.

• 4:03:31Speaker 03

  Right. And not only-

• 4:03:34AJ Gentile?

  Imagination, like you said.

• 4:03:38Speaker 03

  Opens the imagination and I think it also opens up this whole policy dimension about, well, this means that not only that Nordics exist, but that there have been these agreements that have been reached where they are helping us develop these hybrid technologies for sharing amongst the rest of humanity and that they have approved their people like JP to be able to be exposed to these technologies, to these programs and to reveal it. Now,

• 4:04:21Speaker 03

  he's been talking about Nordics for, you know, since 2008 and I've been sharing that information publicly since 2017. And a lot of people first hear of him and think, well, this guy's obviously crazy. And so they make up all sorts of nasty epithets for him and myself. But now all of a sudden it becomes real because of David Grush.

• 4:04:47AJ Gentile?

  Correct. Correct. That's why I know it's coming. Anything we missed that you want to cover? Send everybody to your Patreon. There's good stuff there.

• 4:05:02Speaker 03

  That's much appreciated. As you know, Patreon is a great way of supporting channels and I'm doing my best to interview as many people as possible because like yourself, I'm, I won't call myself a skeptic. I'm a, someone that is convinced that this is real, that this is going on. But I'm open-minded and if someone proves to be unreliable, as in the case of that person we already mentioned, I will walk away. And I have walked away from quite a few people. That's happened a few times and it's just inevitable because that person will do something to discredit themselves. You know, going back to that

• 4:05:46Speaker 03

  Richard Tillman person or that Lieutenant Commander from 2008, 2009, that some people will discredit themselves. Why? Don't know. But you've got to walk away from them. People like Frank Strangers, like, it's like, well, amazing information, but fake certificates. What do you do with that? It's like, okay, but you keep an open mind and I'm, but my fundamental approach is that I'm engaged in an intelligence gathering exercise as a political scientist and I try my best to vet the sources and look at how credible

• 4:06:31Speaker 03

  they are and present that information so that people that look at my research, because I never not cite a source. I don't do that. I will always cite my sources.

• 4:06:45AJ Gentile?

  You do.

• 4:06:46Speaker 03

  Because I'm not the experiencer. I'm not the one up going up there.

• 4:06:49AJ Gentile?

  Well, I hope you ignore the critics and the hate that you get because even if you're wrong most of the time, you're right once in a while and that makes the work very important.

• 4:07:01Speaker 03

  Well, I hope to be more than a broken clock.

• 4:07:06Speaker 03

  Maybe get it right three times out of, yeah, three times in 24 hours.

• 4:07:12AJ Gentile?

  I'm glad you're out there. Dr. Mike Salla, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you. I hope you come back. There's so much more to talk about.

• 4:07:17Speaker 03

  Thank you, AJ. It's been a pleasure.

• 4:07:19AJ Gentile?

  Bye, everybody. That was Michael Salla. He signed off hoping to be right three times a day instead of twice. So let's count. Eisenhower first. Ike really did go dark for a few hours one night in Palm Springs and nine days later Castle Bravo went off. The dentist is in the Surgeon General's file. The medic is one man's memory. Now, the diploma, Michael's rule is that the real deal has to have a fake degree on the wall to survive. So the more a guy looks like a fraud, the more seriously you take him. I can't get on board with that. Grenada got me though. The Prime Minister really did drag the UN into UFOs and the General Assembly passed a decision on it in December 1978, but still on the books.

• 4:08:02AJ Gentile?

  He was in New York following up on it when his government fell. Look, I don't buy the hurricane or the lizard empire and JP's missions I can't check. But the man cites every source and he walks away from people who burn him. And twice tonight he was right or I would have bet against him. Michael's research is at exopolitics.org. His Patreon and everything I mentioned are linked below. Until next time, be safe, be kind, know that you are appreciated. Appreciate it.

• 4:08:40Speaker 04

  Oh, oh, oh, yeah. I played for Libya in Area 51. A secret code inside the Bible said I was. I love my UFOs and paranormal fun as well as music. So I'm singing like I should. But then another conspiracy theory becomes the truth. My friends, and it never ends. No, it never ends.

• 4:09:22Speaker 04

  I fear the crap cat and I got stuck inside Mel's home with MKL trucks. I've been only two aware. Did Stanley Cup, Fred fake the moon landing alone on a film set? Were the shadows people there? The Roswell aliens just fought the smiling man, I'm told. And his name was Cold. And I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2. And one more zombie beat all through the night.

• 4:10:03Speaker 04

  All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. And one more zombie beat all through the night.

• 4:10:28Speaker 04

  The Mothman sightings and the solar storm still come to have got the secret city underground. Mysterious number stations, planets circle to Project Stargate. And what the dark watchers found. In a simulation, don't you worry though. The black neck said a lot, it told me so. I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2. And one more zombie beat all through the night.

• 4:11:09Speaker 04

  All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. And one more zombie beat all through the night. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2. And one more zombie beat all through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. And one more zombie beat all through the night. Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance on the dance floor.

• 4:11:55Speaker 04

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