A 2025 NFL QB Pyramid, and Half-Baked Ideas (Summer Edition) With Sheil Kapadia and Kevin Wildes

Bill is joined by Sheil Kapadia to catch up on the Eagles, and to discuss Bill’s NFL Quarterback Pyramid ahead of the 2025 season (3:50). Then, Kevin Wildes joins to talk about male friendships and the Patriots, before discussing more half-baked ideas! (01:03:44). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Sheil Kapadia and Kevin Wildes Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Post your job today at linkedin.com/simmons The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Expedia. You know how at the end of the season, your team goes to Cancun? Sometimes earlier than expected? Sometimes after blowing a 3-1 series lead? But what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness, though, hopefully, your team doesn't go to Cancun. One, two, three, Cancun. Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save, savings vary. This episode is brought to you by Workday. Guessing is for game shows, not your business, especially when your margin for error is zero. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance, and IT with a deep understanding of your organization's context and guardrails.

• 0:45Bill Simmons?

  So every AI action is permission aware, giving you accuracy 24/7 and the ability to not just get work done, but get it done right. It's a new workday. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find the rewatchables. It will be our 397th movie on Monday night. And it's a movie that I have been talking about and circling around, really for the last couple of years. Brian Koppelman also loves it. He joined me. It's the 50th anniversary of Rollerball, which is an absolutely amazing, amazing movie with James Caan. And we finally had to do it. Couldn't have had a better time. So that's going up Monday night.

• 1:30Bill Simmons?

  You can watch it on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. We are getting dangerously close to 400 movies. Can't believe it. And there's a bunch of, I still have a pretty big list. I didn't think we'd make it to 400. Now I feel like we have an outside chance of getting to 500, unless I die of natural causes before then. So that's it. Rollerball, and then doing a more modern movie the week after. We're going to do all bangers. I'm going to try to do a mailbag at some point, too, during the. During the month of August, before we hit the, the whole football thing. For football, the Ringer Fantasy Football Show, which is really heating up, August is everyone, all the kids are saying it's the biggest month for that show.

• 2:13Bill Simmons?

  But, uh, but people are starting to get fantasy opinions. There's some training camp slash preseason stuff skewing some of the rankings. So those guys are covering all of it. And we're going to do more and more football as we get closer to the season, which is, which feels early this year. It's like basically Labor Day and then all of a sudden on September 4th, we're starting with uh, football. I've been really bored by the sports.

• 2:38Bill Simmons?

  And I was trying to figure out why. And it was because like last year, I was looking at my podcast from last year in August, we had the Olympics. So I had like three in the beginning of August, there was three straight podcasts I did just about Team USA and the Olympics and, um, or there'll be other summers where we'll have the World Cup, or we'll have another Summer Olympics, or we'll have Women's World Cup, or there'll be just some sort of goofy summer event, or there'll be a big trade. This has been really a lot of nothing. Like I watched three hours of the FedEx, St. Jude, wherever the hell that golf thing is, which was great, by the way. Tommy Fleetwood, I think he's the world's preeminent. When he has a lead near the end of something, you're just waiting for the other shoe to

• 3:22Bill Simmons?

  drop and it always seems to drop with him. I feel bad for him, but uh, it ended up being Justin Rose beating JJ Spahn in a triple playoff game. And it was a triple playoff match. And uh, it was really exciting and I was like, I shouldn't be this excited. This is golf. This isn't even one of the four majors, but I am really ready for football. I might even be ready for college football at this point. Coming up on this podcast, Sheil Kapadia is going to come on. We're talking about the Eagles at the very top for a second, but really I have my 2025 QB pyramid and I have a couple of doozy choices that I made on those that I really came genuinely, I really felt strongly about them. So he is coming on, we're going to go through the whole pyramid. He's going to be my conciliary for it.

• 4:06Bill Simmons?

  And then our old friend Kevin Wilds is here to do some half baked ideas. So that is the Sunday podcast and I think I'm going to have one more podcast middle of the week this week too. So hold on to your seats. It's all coming up next. We're going to take a break and then Pearl Jam.

• 4:46Bill Simmons?

  All right. Recording this late afternoon Pacific time. Sheil Kapadia is here. You can read him on the ringer.com. Great website. Hosting the Philly special, a lot of Philly stuff. The Phillies kicked the Red Sox ass a couple of weeks ago. I did not enjoy that. Almost sent Roman Anthony into a funk and the Ringer NFL show, which you're the host of, which we have some fun wrinkles coming for, for mid-August. So first of all, like you, you know, you're an Eagles fan. So I've been studying the, trying to figure out Super Bowl picks, who to zag against. The Eagles have so much freaking talent. We do this every year with whoever the defending champ is. What would be the reason they didn't make it back to the Super Bowl? If you had to pinpoint one thing that you're worried about, what is it?

• 5:30Speaker 01

  I mean, there's always the injuries and that stuff. But the other thing I would probably say defensively, they've got two new pieces in the secondary that just no one's grabbed the jobs at corner and at safety. And so I think if you look at them last year, it was one of those old school kind of, I guess, a Belichick style defense where you're built from the back to the front, where their coverage was so good and so suffocating that the pass rush would get home. And so I do think there's a chance that if that coverage isn't as good, now all of a sudden the defense takes a step back. But I'm with you. Every time I'm like, well, the schedule's hard and the defense could take us. It's just like, man, you do roster by roster and you're like, a lot of things would have to go wrong for them to not be in the mix.

• 6:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I did my rankings and they just had the the highest point total and it wasn't close. They were like five, six points higher than anybody else. But the the young cornerbacks you had, I thought were going to be assets. So you were, are you worried about the depth? Are you worried about the starters?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, they've got two who are awesome. Quinian Mitchell and Cooper Dejean. It's kind of that other cornerback spot. And then it's the safety spot. They traded Chauncey Gardner Johnson in the offseason. So these are first world problems. I mean, I like every Eagles team I've watched my entire life, you know, if you would have said these are the issues on your team, or if you know, fans of other teams are listening, they're like, give me a break. Those aren't problems. You got A.J. Brown and Saquon and Hertz and Jalen Carter and all pros all over the place. So yeah, I don't want to overstate it. I still think they're going to be very good. But if you're painting the scenario, I think that's probably the biggest concern on the team right now.

• 7:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you have a top four offensive line. You can rush the passer. You can play past defense and you have, I would say, in the top four for skill position guys, right? Top three, top four, it's somewhere in there. The conversation starts with Cincinnati and Philly. The Kurt's relationship is kind of fun coming off the Super Bowl, right? Because you would think like he's cemented this guy's royalty in Philly, but it doesn't feel like that's 100% the case. It's more shifted toward Barkley, right? What's, what's the Hertz Philly relationship right now?

• 7:35Speaker 01

  No, I think the, I think in Philly, everybody loves Hertz right now and it's turned into this thing where he wins the Super Bowl. And then like I was on vacation for a few weeks there in June and July. And it was like, I came back and there were just like a million Hertz debates about how did this person rank him there? And what did Cam Newton say to him? And so you know how it is in a city like Philadelphia where even if you were a fan who wasn't fully sold on Hertz, even after the Super Bowl, once other people start taking shots at him or doubting him, now you're like, screw you, you suck. He just won the Super Bowl. So that I think it's really turned into that. And maybe in a way, it's been a good thing for Hertz locally. Not only does he win the Super Bowl, but now everybody's just like behind him and like everybody else doesn't get it with this guy.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  He's our guy and he's going to go do it again.

• 8:22Bill Simmons?

  Interesting. So that actually works out for Jalen Hurts, I think. He's got, he's got everyone aside. The Phillies are in a good spot and all the contempt in the city is just being shifted toward the, toward the 76ers now.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very weird how happy like the, the sports fans here are, are pretty happy right now with this Eagles team. Like you said, the way the Phillies are playing here and the Sixers are honestly, I think people are just waiting for the next era to start whenever that would be. So they, they feel like an afterthought right now.

• 8:52Bill Simmons?

  Well, the crazy thing with the Eagles, cause what, once you stay on top and if you start nailing a couple of drafts in a row, you can really get a half decade out of this, which they've done. It feels like the 23 draft they crushed. It feels like the 24 draft. How are you feeling about it? I wouldn't say it's like as, maybe not as impactful as 23, but it's still going to be impactful, right? Because there's no way, with all the money you're sending out, you have to have young, working class people kind of moving into some of those spots. So do you have that?

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, they got a linebacker in Jihad Campbell in the first round who seems like a great pick. Now we'll see, but he's going to come in. He's expected to start right away. The safety they got in the second round, Andrew McCuba, he's expected to start right away. And then it's more what you're saying rotational guys. Hey, you know, Milton Williams signs with the Patriots. Well, you know, a, a guy who you drafted a few years ago now has to fill that role and now someone has to fill. So it's a lot of depth stuff. Now, I will say they were very lucky with injuries last year and even 2022 when they made the Super Bowl. I mean, you look at the rosters they put out there during the actual Super Bowl and it's like they had 21 or 22 starters on the field. So that injury luck, you can never predict. So yeah, their depth could get tested a little bit more this year.

• 10:07Bill Simmons?

  Who is, uh, as you, as you worry about the Eagles and who could knock them out? Who's the one team in, in the NFC that you're like, I'm actually kind of afraid of those guys? I hope, I hope, I hope that team doesn't achieve the potential that in my head I think they have.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, and I think I'm probably going to disagree with you about this because I've heard you kind of hint at it previously on the pod. I do think the 49ers are going to be a pretty big factor in the NFC, uh, this year. Now I know like half their team's injured right now. I understand, but they have the easiest schedule in the entire NFL. When you look at like Super Bowl odds or win. Or whatever. And I just feel like offensively, they have a chance to be pretty good where if they rack up a bunch of wins and now all of a sudden they get home field advantage. They could be a Super Bowl contender, but I mean, it's wide open as we'll talk about with some of these quarterbacks. I mean, Detroit, Green Bay, Washington. I think those are probably the four or five teams that I'm looking at where, hey, if they hit their ceiling, they have a chance to get to the Super Bowl.

• 11:10Bill Simmons?

  Is there any Tampa, anything for you? I know Werfs is out for a few weeks, but anything about them interest you? They bringing back so much continuity on offense. They're in the NFC South like, why? And they, and I actually thought they threw some haymakers in the playoffs last year. So why don't they get mentioned?

• 11:27Speaker 01

  My, I do think there is some buzz around the Bucks. My concern is that I thought that was a highly schemed offense last year for Baker Mayfield, where they did like a great job of, he didn't have to throw into tight windows, a lot of shorter throws and they lose the guy who was their offensive coordinator in Liam Cohen. Now I'm not saying he's Bill Walsh, or you know, I, you could replace a guy like Liam Cohen. It just adds a little bit of an unknown to me where I'm, you know, I could see them playing in the NFC championship game, maybe being a sleeper, but I'm not willing to predict that because I think it's just as likely that maybe their offense takes a little bit of a step back.

• 12:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. See, I'm looking at that. I know a lot of people have talked about this, but I, I think the Lions are the number one team for me with that. Cause we had the Patriots when they won the three and four years in the 2000s, right? And B Philly McNabb threw up that third Super Bowl. And then basically it felt like the entire coaching staff left other than Belichick and they had to turn over both coordinators and, and, and it was like, oh no, this would be easy. We'll just bring some new guys in and it's not easy. It completely changes. You just, if you miss on one of the two spots, it's your coordinator. I don't know. I just, I felt like the Lions had these overqualified coordinators last year and I don't know what I'm getting this year.

• 12:41Bill Simmons?

  Not to mention the offensive lines were so, um, they have the second best odds in the NFC right now. The, the Eagles are plus 360. And then the Lions are plus 550. And then, I don't know, the NFC, just in general, there's a lot of depth. And I think people are trying to figure out who the zag team is. And I'm not sure. The Rams had glimpses of it, but the Stafford thing is terrifying, which we're about to talk about when we do the QB pyramid. But old Matthew Stafford with a ton of miles on him already, not looking like he's going to be ready for week one. That's my number one thing I'm watching. Do I, would you agree with that? Or is there something else?

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's gotta be it. Because even last year, I felt like for one game, Stafford could play as well as any quarterback in the NFL. But now, as we're looking at it, to get through an 18 game schedule, a 17 game schedule, and then the playoffs, I can't get there. And at his age, and the other thing I look at with him is like, they almost were willing to trade him or let him go this offseason. Like, they had more information on his medicals than anybody else. And if they were like, no, no, he's great, you know, then would they have really taken that step? Now, ultimately, maybe it's just a negotiating thing and he comes back. But that made me a little nervous as well, where it's like, Sean McVay, at this point, is like, willing to let Matthew Stafford go here? Should that make my ears perk up a little bit?

• 14:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it would be like the Sixers. Oh, no, they did the opposite. They just paid Joel Embiid, gave him a ton of money, not knowing if he was able to walk. I have not figured out who my zag team in the, in the NFC is. House loves the Packers. And I'm trying to figure out that case. And Jordan Love being hurt last year, who we're about to talk about him, the QB pyramid, and playing hurt the whole year, and obviously wasn't 100%. They tried to beef up the receivers. They have a young team. It's another year. It was a little bit year from hell for them last year. But I can't totally get there, can you?

• 14:35Speaker 01

  I like the Packers. I'm with House.

• 14:36Bill Simmons?

  You like them as a zag team?

• 14:38Speaker 01

  I like them as a zag team. I think if I had to name three teams that, you know, to get to the Super Bowl in the NFC, definitely four, they're in there. I think, I think the case is Jordan Love had three different injuries last year, and they still had a top five offense. And then Matt LaFleur might be the most underrated coach in the NFL. I mean, you look at like, those last days of Aaron Rodgers. We're probably harder, you know, looking back now that they were probably a little bit harder than we gave them credit for. They transitioned a Jordan Love and they just don't have bad seasons. I mean, they've been in the playoffs five or six seasons with him. He's won 67% of his games. They had a very young roster last year, like you mentioned. So if just some of those guys get better this year, I do think there's a case for the Packers. Okay.

• 15:22Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're doing the quarterback pyramid, which I've been working on for a while. I have a, I have this as in pencil, but it's not in pen and I'm willing to be nudged by you. You're gonna be my conciliary for this.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  All right.

• 15:35Bill Simmons?

  So one thing I already, I already did with this. Normally with the pyramid, I have the one guy on the top, then two guys underneath him, then three, then four. So it's really a top 10 and it's one, two, three, four. I couldn't do the second level with two guys because there's four guys that clearly stand out above everybody else. And the four guys are, I'll just go alphabetical order. Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, and Patrick Mahomes. So I made the second, I did a one, three, four. So I had to beef out the second level of the pyramid a little, but do you agree with that? Like, how do you, how do you pick three out of those four guys? I just couldn't do it.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  I like it. Yeah. I think Burrow belongs there. I think some people might look at it and say, hey, he had the other three guys have all won MVPs. He hasn't won an MVP, but I put him right there with those three guys. It would have been weird to me if you had Burrow on like the next line with some of the other guys we talked about. So I was trying, when you sent it to me, I was trying to do the math. Like, wait a minute, how many guys are in each row? So I'm glad you explained this before people see the graphic.

• 16:42Bill Simmons?

  It's the only time I can remember doing that, but I just like, really Burrow's gonna be a level below those guys? That's crazy. He was unbelievable last year.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:51Bill Simmons?

  Okay. So we're gonna go through some of the choices, but the big one for me, and I thought about it long and hard, and I'd like to think that I, I am relatively thoughtful with this stuff and not quick baity. I did not have Patrick Mahomes at the top of the pyramid. And I just couldn't get there with it. And I looked and I stared and I, and I tried to make excuses left and right. And I just, when it came right down to it, I just think Josh Allen's the best quarterback in the league.

• 17:24Bill Simmons?

  Game by game, regular season durability, the fact that he doesn't, he had 14 sacks last year. You basically either can't sack him or he gets away or he runs away. He can make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Physically, he's dominant. I don't blame him for them not winning last year. I feel like he's gotten them right in the spot. Even when you think of that overtime game last year that they lost, like the 13 seconds game, he did everything he could. I just think he's the best guy in the league. Now, in four months, Mahomes might grab it back. But from what we saw from Mahomes last year, which I want to go into in a second, I just don't think it's fair to put him over Josh Allen, especially because Mahomes didn't win the Super Bowl last year. So when you saw that, what was your reaction?

• 18:09Speaker 01

  My first reaction was I thought this goes against everything I thought I knew about you in terms of honestly, from having, you know, read you, listened to you, working with you, talked to you. I thought you had sort of a life principle that when one guy has the belt, somebody's got to come take the belt. It's not just like, oh, the belt's on the ground. And Allen, I love Allen. Like, I actually think there is a case to what you're saying, that it's hard to be like, oh, Mahomes does this better than Allen. Allen's a better runner. Josh Allen's awesome. I think it's a, we're talking about a very slim margin between the two. However, if it is that close and Patrick Mahomes has been to five Super Bowls, won

• 18:51Speaker 01

  three, has played Josh Allen four times in the playoffs and beat him every time. I hear what you're saying. Those aren't Josh Allen's fault. I totally agree with that. But still, somebody wins, somebody loses. That's sports. I feel like Allen needs to either beat Mahomes and get to a Super Bowl or just win a Super Bowl to actually get the belt. So I think the argument is fine and the conversation's fine, but I think if we're talking about actually, to actually get the belt, I'm not giving it. I think it's still Patrick Mahomes is, I mean, his down season was 15-2, got to the Super Bowl with a terrible offensive line and a terrible supporting cast. And it's just the floor with him.

• 19:30Bill Simmons?

  Was it terrible? Like, the Patriots had a terrible offensive line. Was Mahomes' line terrible or was it terrible against the Eagles? I mean, I know he didn't have a left tackle at the end of last year. And you know, shit happens when you're a quarterback. Nothing gets to be perfect every single season. I just thought, so in 2022, he threw for 5250 passing yards, 41 touchdowns, 12 interceptions. That dropped 1300 yards last year. Now, he played one last game, but it was down in 26 TDs, 11. All his stats are down. The rushing stats are down. I guess my question is, is it possible that he might have peaked a couple of years ago as like

• 20:15Bill Simmons?

  apex Mahomes? I'm just, I'm talking through it. I'm not trying to be reactionary guy. I just don't think he was as good last year as he was in that 22 season and some of those other years. I didn't see it. I thought they, I thought they kind of lucked that we were 11 and 1 in one score games and some of them were really stupid wins. I never felt like he had the same command. I didn't think he moved the same way. I know his offensive line wasn't good, but I also thought he wasn't moving like he used to. And I don't know, I just, and I thought the Eagles killed them.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. I personally don't assign, I assign almost no blame to Mahomes for what has happened to the Chiefs offense. If I were a Chiefs fan, I would be furious at sort of the roster building and they've tried stuff. It's not that they haven't tried stuff, but it's like, I mean, they had four different left tackles last year and they had Xavier Worthy, DeAndre Hopkins, 34 year old Travis Kelsey. I mean, I do think there's a case that if you swap Josh Allen with Patrick Mahomes, that the Chiefs offense might have been better because of Allen and the running element. I do think that's a big deal. That Mahomes can scramble, but Josh Allen, you can use as a designed runner. And I do think that's a factor in terms of just building an offense that might not have a lot of good pieces. He can make

• 21:28Speaker 01

  up for that. But man, I look at it and I'm just like, we make excuses for so many quarterbacks in the, this guy didn't have a play caller and this guy's, and I just look at what, I don't think it was good last year. I mean, I have a hard time thinking that many quarterbacks could have gotten them better than whatever they were like eighth in offensive DVOA with the rookie wide receiver who couldn't stay in bounds with the rotating. Cast at left tackle. I mean, they've kinda, I hate what they've done to Patrick Mahomes. You, you gave the numbers. It's like, we watched this guy and he was bombing it downfield. And he had a rocket of an arm and he was the most fun guy ever to watch. And now they're throwing it six yards because they can't come up with anything else because they don't have the, the talent around him. So that, that's where I'm at with Mahomes. I don't put, I put pretty much nothing on him.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Now, other people might disagree, but that's kinda how I view it.

• 22:17Bill Simmons?

  Typical trophy generation performer parenting by you.

• 22:22Bill Simmons?

  You made the key point, and this is why I put Allen in that top spot. If you switch them last season, the Chiefs would have been better with that version of Allen last season versus what they had with Mahomes. And, and I've heard all the excuses. By the way, I'm the one who just picked Mahomes blindly every week and all the way through the Super Bowl. I had no other reason. I thought the Eagles were better. I'm like, I'm not going against Mahomes. So I say that knowing that I was that person that months ago. I just keep looking at the Josh Allen piece and we're not making the same kind of excuses for him because the team performs no matter what happens. Like who were his, who were his people last year? James Cook was good, right? But like, when you look at the receivers that he had, it's not like Keon Coleman was going nuts.

• 23:05Bill Simmons?

  He had Shakir. They went and they, they traded for Amari Cooper during the season. That didn't really do anything. I thought Schultz was, he, not, uh, not Schultz, uh,

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Knox.

• 23:15Bill Simmons?

  Knox.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Kade, yeah.

• 23:16Bill Simmons?

  I was getting my Dalton's confused.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Like tight ends. Yeah.

• 23:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. No, the, the tight ends were okay, but I, but for where they were in fantasy before the year when we were like, oh my God, these weapons. I don't know. I just felt like he was a one man show in a lot of ways. And as a Pats fan, I just am the most, or betting, betting against the quarterback. I was the most afraid going against him last year. I always felt like he was going to make a play. Some of the stuff with his, so he had in the last two years, 27 rush TDs, but he had 109 first downs running.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:50Bill Simmons?

  And normally QBs are between like 20 and 30. This guy's getting, I don't know, basically three, four running, three, four running first downs a game. And if it's a big playoff game, maybe five. And that's the piece. I just think, I thought they should have won last year. I, I keep coming back to that. Like, I don't know if the right team won last year.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  He's the most efficient runner in the NFL and has been for like the last three years. Like when he either chooses to run on a scramble or on a designed run, it's pretty much unstoppable. I do think that's a case for him. I think, I think the best point you made is probably if you're an opposing fan right now, and which quarterback are you most afraid of in a playoff game? I, I think there's a case for, yeah, it might be Josh Allen. Now, I don't like making arguments against Josh Allen. I do think it's, I do think it's flip a coin. And I'm basically just saying the tiebreaker goes to the guy who's one more.

• 24:44Bill Simmons?

  But they did have.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  They had a top five offensive line, I would say, last year, and it stayed very healthy. So I feel like the great quarterbacks can overcome either the average offensive line or like the bad supporting cast. When you get both of them that are bad, sometimes you're kind of just stuck. And you, you know, you're like the eighth best offense instead of the second best offense.

• 25:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's weird. This is uncharacteristic for me because normally I'm like a playoff pedigree wins. Somebody's got to take the belt from the guy.

• 25:16Bill Simmons?

  I don't know, man. I watched every, I watched everything last year and I just felt like Josh, when you look at the totality of what he did, looking back versus the mystique of Mahomes, versus what actually happened and the fact that he was able to turn it on right when they needed it. But just quarter by quarter, I don't know how you would say anyone's better than Josh. I mean, the only other guy statistically that has a case is Lamar, who last year was 41 and four, four interceptions. He ran for 915 yards. He had 47 rushing TDs, uh, first downs. Threw for over 4,000, but the playoff resume just kills him. Like that's one where you can't discuss him for the top because he just had, we haven't seen him do it. Josh, it's like, we haven't seen him 100% do it either.

• 26:00Bill Simmons?

  But I also feel like two of those wins, I, I can't really hang on him.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  I think that's right. If you look at Josh, if you look at the Bills playoff losses, Josh Allen has played like 95th percentile games statistically where their, their defense has just let them down every single year in the playoffs. They get carved up by Burrow or Mahomes or whoever it is. And yes, you can make the case that not everything in the playoffs has been Lamar Jackson, but I do think you can say it hasn't been quite as flawless. You know, he, he has made mistakes here and there. And then just the physicality of it where Lamar Jackson has stayed healthy, but earlier in his career, he had seasons where he missed five games. And Josh Allen's kind of like what you always talk about with LeBron where it's just, it would just be shocking if like Josh Allen went down and didn't get up and you're like, oh my Josh Allen's out for a month. Like, wait, I thought he was indestructible.

• 26:49Bill Simmons?

  Right. Yeah. Yeah. The, yeah, man. I mean, now I'm thinking, the more I'm thinking about it, like they did have the ball with a chance to put away the Chiefs last year.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  They did.

• 27:00Bill Simmons?

  And they didn't do it. And that's at least partly on him, even though, you know, whatever. But, and, and I remember saying that at the time. It was like, if you're gonna, if you're gonna take it from Mahomes, this is your chance. You have the ball. You can finish them right here and they didn't. But I don't know how you, you could have Mahomes first after the, the start to finish year he had last year, unless you're gonna tell me the offensive line was that bad. Because the other piece with Mahomes, the infrastructure of that read, the play calling, like just the stability they've always had there. I think that really matters. You know, and that's something that some quarterbacks, you know, they, they might have 10 years where they don't have anything like that. So I know he didn't have a left

• 27:42Bill Simmons?

  tackle. He's gonna have a left tackle this year because by all accounts, that first rounder they took, that feels like that's probably the biggest draft pick storyline, right? That they have like a real kick ass left tackle that crossed their fingers that they took basically at the end of the first round. He's gonna kick ass for them.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, if it works out, that's a that's a huge, huge deal in the AFC. Now they're swinging another guy into guard because they traded Joe Tooney. And so I'm always skeptical with the rookies in like the August reports where this guy looks great. And I'm just like, let me, you know, because I was I was doing a bunch of like statistical research on this and like 35 to 40% of first round picks won't even start eight games this year.

• 28:23Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  You know, and like, everybody gets so excited in August that, oh, my God, they solved their, you know, you look at a weakness and you say, oh, they solved their problem with this guy. And it's like, a lot of almost half the guys aren't even going to play. So yeah, I need to see it the first month of the season. But I'm with you. That is a huge pick that could kind of swing things in the AFC.

• 28:41Bill Simmons?

  All right. So my conciliary disagrees.

• 28:45Bill Simmons?

  I'm going to keep Allen in the top spot, and I'm going to say this to Patrick Mahomes.

• 28:51Bill Simmons?

  Prove to me I'm a shithead. Go take your belt back. You dropped the belt. You dropped the belt in that Super Bowl game. And just in general, I didn't love the I didn't love the season start to finish. And I think Josh is a safer bet. So prove to me I'm wrong. We'll take a break. We'll go through the rest of the pyramid. Tuesday, August 26. Guess what that is? FanDuel Futures Day. It's a new holiday for football fans. I mean, honestly, my entire summer is Futures Day, but let's designate it Tuesday, August 26, 24 hours of deals on your football season predictions. Take a fire in the MVP race.

• 29:28Bill Simmons?

  Mahomes comeback year? Josh Allen? Maybe you go rogue? Joe Burrow? Crown your champion in August?

• 29:37Bill Simmons?

  I like an Eagles Broncos Super Bowl. I think it's like 60 to one. Maybe do a little Super Bowl matchup. Division winner dark horses. Denver over three to one still. Mark your calendars. This is your day for your hunches, your hot takes, your calls, your odds. We're going to have some special bets on there as well. Visit the FanDuel app today and start planning your future bets now because Futures Day is one day and one day only. FanDuel, play your game. Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-8879-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat.

• 30:16Bill Simmons?

  In Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24/7. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Nice. At the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates. And with LinkedIn, you can feel confident you're getting the best. You can even add a hashtag hiring frame to your profile picture and get two times more qualified candidates.

• 30:58Bill Simmons?

  Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/Simmons. Terms and conditions apply. And now it's time for Rules and Tips to Winning Your League, a new segment presented by Yahoo Fantasy, the most fun place to play fantasy football this season. I'm the perfect guy to ask since I haven't won my knockout league since 2007. Yahoo Fantasy dropping over 28 new features over 28 days through August, like Guillotines, which is an awesome way to play. I was in one of those leagues last year. It was great. Whether you're a seasoned pro or a last minute joiner, there are a few things you'll want to know before the season kicks off. Number one, find that rookie receiver who's going to be awesome. Just try to lock it down.

• 31:42Bill Simmons?

  Brian Thomas Jr. was the guy last year. Just go in, lock it down. Make sure you get a quarterback. Everyone, like there was this new shift where it was like, no, quarterbacks don't matter as much. Guess what? Look at the total points. Quarterbacks matter. Get a good quarterback. Don't mess around. And then don't draft guys from your own team if you can avoid it because it's like a double whammy if something terrible happens to them. So those are my thoughts. Stay tuned for more killer announcements and start playing Yahoo Fantasy Football at YahooFantasy.com/Simmons. And try a Guillotine link. They're cool. All right. So the top four, Allen at the top, then Lamar and Mahomes and Burrow all together.

• 32:25Bill Simmons?

  That next tier of the pyramid, which is four guys. So I settled on these four. Jaden Daniels.

• 32:35Bill Simmons?

  Jordan Love, Dak Prescott, and Jalen Hurts. Who doesn't belong in that night? So we are now talking about guys five through eight. So when somebody says he's a top 10 quarterback, my recommendation would be do this exercise because you'd be surprised. That top 10 fills up pretty fast. Daniels, Love, Prescott, Hurts. Do all these people belong in this level for you?

• 32:59Speaker 01

  I was most surprised that you had Dak Prescott in this, in this tier. I, I, I got it. I looked at it and I'm like, wait, did he send me the wrong thing? Not that I think people will make the case, but I think that's more of the, you know, the QB intellectuals, the hipsters, you know, you don't understand what Dak Prescott does. And I like Dak Prescott. I just feel like there's a case for other people in this tier. You know, I, I think last year, everyone points to, hey, 2023, Dak Prescott was an MVP candidate and he was awesome that year. He did start eight games last year and he kind of sucked. I mean, their offense was terrible last year for eight games. And now he's 32 years old, coming off of

• 33:41Speaker 01

  an injury. So they generally win a lot of games. He plays well and their offense is good when they have Dak Prescott healthy. But I, I have to say of the four guys in there, I was surprised by him. And I was also surprised you had Jordan Love in there. I'm a big Jordan Love guy, but I thought you would say, let's see a little bit more. He didn't have a great year last season. Maybe one of these other guys belongs in there. So I had like three or four names where I thought, I wonder how closely you looked at putting these guys in that tier.

• 34:09Bill Simmons?

  I had a lot of trouble. Once we, I mean, to me, the, the, the two that were definitely in there, that had to be in there were Hurts and Daniels. Love was unquestionably hurt basically the whole season and just seemed to have like a little bit of the year from hell and fought through it. Not to mention, I thought his receivers, you know, for what we thought that receiving corps was going to be. And then even Luke Busgrave thought he, and then it turned out Tucker Kraft was the guy. I don't know. There's, and, and the smart football people, as we head toward the season. Have all targeted him as like, no, no, no. If you actually watch the tape and I, at some point I trust that a little bit that there's a lot more there. And maybe last year was on

• 34:54Bill Simmons?

  the lower end of what it should have been. So yeah, that's, that's the case.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like love. I mean, like you said, dealt with three injuries. I think his receivers were among the league leaders in drops and still, you know, what if they

• 35:06Bill Simmons?

  Lots of got hurt.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they still won what 11 games or whatever and had a top five offense. So yeah, I like having love in there. I was just surprised you had him in there, but the guys who I was, I wrote down here where I thought you could replace Dak Prescott with. I had four names written down.

• 35:23Bill Simmons?

  Okay. I wonder if there are the four names that are in the next level.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Three of them are in the next level. One of them's in the level below the next level.

• 35:31Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  You want them now?

• 35:32Bill Simmons?

  How about, no, let me go through and when we go to that next level. Man, you're really like, I thought I was like being fair with that because I'm not, as you know, I'm not like a giant fan, but I went, I mean, I went back to his 03 season or 23 season.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:47Bill Simmons?

  36 touchdowns, nine picks. He threw for 45, 16, went 12 and five.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:55Bill Simmons?

  I didn't even necessarily think the team was that good. And then last year was a little year from hellish and you know, I thought their offensive line wasn't good and, and they had one receiver. They threw away the running back position for reasons that remain unclear. So, and then he got hurt. So I don't know. Is that his fault or is that everybody, everything else's fault?

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think he's, he's in the mix there. I don't think you're wrong to have him on this row. I think there are arguments for some other guys, but you're right. Like when he plays, they're 76 and 46. They're 30 games over 500 when he's on the field, which I think would probably surprise people. You know, they won 12 games, three years in a row. We'll see what it looks like this year.

• 36:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Would I want him for four playoff rounds? Probably not. I, I though, here's the guy as we get to this next level. Um, I really looked at Mayfield. I loved how Mayfield played last year and uh, Mayfield was 4,500 yards last year, 41 touchdowns, um, 16 picks. He'll throw the ball for grabs once a game, maybe twice, but from a leadership standpoint, um, I just think. For as a culture guy, I just like him. I think the Browns giving up on him because he had a bad shoulder that one year is is almost as dumb as the Watson thing. So that was the one guy I was looking at. Who are your three guys you were looking at in the next level? Because the next, I'll give you the next level.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:17Bill Simmons?

  Mayfield, Purdy, Stafford, Stroud and Goff. So who'd you have?

• 37:22Speaker 01

  I think it's going to surprise you. Probably the three guys I had. I thought you could make a case for Purdy that he belongs in there. Honestly, like I learned more about Purdy last year than maybe I did in previous years. They were the most injured offense in the NFL. They couldn't do all the Shanahan, you know, tricks and gimmicks that they want to do because they didn't have the personnel. And I don't think they were bad last year because of the offense. I think they were, they had one of the worst special teams in the NFL. The defense was bad and they had injuries on offense. I thought Purdy did, actually did a pretty good job elevating some of the talent around him. So you know, you can get to a Super Bowl with him. And I thought we learned last year that, hey, the floor actually isn't that low.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  I mean, they were ninth in offensive efficiency last year and he was dealing with a shoulder injury. Like if you look at his numbers before the shoulder injury, I think it was week 10, week 12 or whatever. I mean, he was playing really well and then he finished slow and then he got injured to end the season. But yeah, I know not everybody is a Purdy guy, but I thought he deserved maybe a mention for, for one tier above. So that was one guy I had.

• 38:27Bill Simmons?

  Stroud, I, yeah. Hold on, I'm Purdy.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:31Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he almost did for 4,000 yards last year. They lose Iuk, what, five games into the season? His, the first round pick got shot before the season, Pierce all. McCaffrey plays barely any games. They're down to like their third string running back. The line was a mess.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:47Bill Simmons?

  They were the classic all time year from hell season. I had the same thought, like they're, you know, he had two terrible games. I remember. Purdy. But for the most part, it felt like he was hanging around. I think that the best case for him, he can extend plays, right? He had 33 rushing first downs last year, but in general, like I can move around and, and buy two seconds. But I think he throws one of the best deep balls in the league, you know, and if they, if the weapons can, can, I don't know what they think. They, they seem to think IU can come back at some point soon. I'm a little dubious. That injury happened in October, but we'll see. Diggs is coming back too. But yeah, I like them too. I, both him and Mayfield, like if that's your quarterback. I'm just not bummed out. I like those guys.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. He reminds me of Romo. I think is still the guy who I'm like, when I look at Purdy, like he's, he's probably not as talented or might not have the same arm, but just kind of the way he plays, it feels like you're going to complete passes and hit on explosive plays and give your offense a chance.

• 39:48Bill Simmons?

  All right. So Stroud, you thought could have made a case for that higher level.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Could have made a case. I understand why he didn't. I, I still think he's really good, but last year I think he did develop some bad habits. But if you're asking me like Stroud or Prescott, if I just am an NFL owner and you're like, hey, you get your chance at one of these two quarterbacks this year, I might be tempted to go with Stroud, everything else being equal there. So, um, he probably needs to do it a little bit longer. I understand why you would have Prescott above him. And then the last guy, he just now, it's always his coach gets all the credit and he doesn't get the credit. Um, and maybe I'm, I've just in my old age turned into a QB apologist, but like Jared Goff, I mean, wow. First it's Sean McVay, then it's Ben Johnson, and it's like for five of his seven

• 40:36Speaker 01

  seasons or whatever, he's quarterbacked a really good offense. Um, and so I just thought, you know, I don't know. If you put Jared Goff into that Cowboys offense instead of Dak Prescott, I don't know. Maybe there's a smaller margin there than people would expect, but I think I would have Prescott ahead of him.

• 40:53Bill Simmons?

  I did examine the Goff candidacy and his last three years, when you look at them all together are kind of shocking. He goes 44, 45 and 4,600 each year, 29, 30 and 37 touchdowns, never throws more than 12 picks. It was just better than I was expecting. But we're going to find out about him this year.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:18Bill Simmons?

  No Ben Johnson, the offensive line's definitely, definitely worse. Schedule's going to be harder. Like we will know this year. We'll know, we'll know what's in there once and for all. But you're right. He, he could be the guy. So, all right. You've convinced me to bump Dak. I think I was being too generous with him. So if it goes Allen, then Lamar Mahomes, Burrow, and then Daniels, Love, Kurtz, you think that fourth guy should be who? Not Mayfield, huh?

• 41:47Speaker 01

  It might be a guy in your next tier. You want to get to your next, uh, row there?

• 41:52Bill Simmons?

  If you say Justin Herbert, I'm hanging up. It better not be Justin Herbert.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  All right.

• 41:58Bill Simmons?

  Don't do it.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  All right.

• 41:59Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  I know. I don't want to.

• 42:00Bill Simmons?

  Are you gonna say Justin Herbert?

• 42:02Speaker 01

  I think he has to be in the conversation for the next one.

• 42:05Bill Simmons?

  Why?

• 42:06Speaker 01

  All right.

• 42:07Bill Simmons?

  What is happening?

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Listen, I'm trying to bring.

• 42:10Bill Simmons?

  Justin Herbert?

• 42:11Speaker 01

  I'm trying to bring a rational Justin Herbert take here. You know, you have the Herbert hipsters, who if you don't have him as like the greatest quarterback in the NFL, they get all upset. But this is too, this is too low for him, I think.

• 42:24Bill Simmons?

  It is. Why is it too low?

• 42:27Speaker 01

  Where you have him. I, don't you think if the Cowboys had their choice of Dak Prescott or Justin Herbert this year, they would take Justin Herbert?

• 42:35Bill Simmons?

  Would they?

• 42:36Speaker 01

  I think so. I think they would.

• 42:38Bill Simmons?

  Can I give you some just, let me give you.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  I love this.

• 42:43Bill Simmons?

  So I had, so level four, I had Mayfield, Purdy, Stafford, Stroud and Goff. And, and I, by the way, quickly on Stroud, I just thought he, well, I just didn't think he was as good last year in every respect as he was the year before.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  No doubt.

• 43:01Bill Simmons?

  And I, especially against shitty teams. They were just games where you'd have them on and their offense just looked like shit. And he, I don't know what he was doing. I know he had receiver injuries. I know they weren't totally happy with their O line, but I just, I didn't like how he played. Herbert, last year, 23 touchdowns, three picks. Really impressive. Took 41 sacks. I think they had a top five offensive line last year. So explain that to me. Almost turned for 4,000 yards. Here's the thing with Herbert. And, and all the Herbert apologists have not been able to explain this part. They played a cream puff schedule last year. They played four really good defenses. Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Kansas City twice. They scored 60 points in the four games total.

• 43:46Bill Simmons?

  60 points. In the playoffs, Houston, another good defense. 12 points.

• 43:52Bill Simmons?

  Anytime the defense was good, he looked like crap and couldn't do anything and nobody's been able to provide a proper explanation for that. If the defense is good, he's not good. And it's like, whoa, they don't have enough skill guys. Oh, that like, what is it? At some point, we have to see something from him and we just haven't seen it.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  I'm with you. Honestly, in most of my conversations with the with other, you know, football analysts, I'm the guy making the points you're making. And they're like, no, you know, what can he do? He's got the arm. He's got the athleticism. He makes good decisions. At some point, I'm with you. You have to have a moment. You have to, it has to all come together. You have to have a playoff win five years into the NFL. So I'm not irrational about Justin Herbert, where I'm like, he's incredible. You know, I think all the points you make are absolutely valid. And I do wonder if he's going to have sort of a Stafford type career where we're going to have like eight, nine, 10 years where everyone's like, this guy's arm and oh my gosh, look at this throw. And there just hasn't been a single

• 44:56Speaker 01

  meaningful moment for him in the playoffs until maybe there's kind of a late stage part of his career. So I'm with you there. I do think if I were an expansion team and I got my choice of any quarterback and I'm ranking them right now, I would have him higher on this list above some of the guys you have above him. So that would be my case for him is that I'm with you. It hasn't all come together. I've been underwhelmed. I loved him in his first season, his second season. I thought he was going to have accomplished a lot more at this point that he hasn't accomplished. But I still think there is a good player in there that I don't know when we'll see.

• 45:35Bill Simmons?

  Not saying there's not. I just that's he's being, he's being put on this level that we just haven't seen against the against really good teams, which is part of being an awesome quarterback. It's like, can you Lawrence has the same issue and we're, we're not even close to getting to Lawrence yet. But it's like, at some point, let's see it.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:55Bill Simmons?

  Let's stop making excuses. This year, it's like Slater's already out, right? Oh, Slater's out. And so if he's not doing well against, well, they don't have Slater. That's why the rookie running back's not as good as they thought. And it'll just be another litany of excuses. By the way, I don't think a team was better equipped to lose their awesome left tackle than the Chargers, who could just take Joe Walt and take him from the right side and put him on the left side. It's not perfect, but no other team has the luxury of moving Joe Walt into the starting left tackle. So it's an excuse, but it's not like a real excuse. They still should be fine. Like, you know, they improved their scope position, guys. It's year two of Harbaugh. And I'm not accepting excuses for it. Like, let's see it.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  I think one of the big differentiators with these guys is like, who can overcome a bad situation? And like, Jaden Daniels, if you go back and look at what we were all thinking about that commander situation, going into last year, it was like, offensive line, bad. Terry McLaurin, and that's all he's got. And they had, what, the fifth best offense in the NFL, and he got to the NFC championship game? So I think it's fair. I mean, Herbert, they've had one top 10 offense in five years with him as the quarterback. And it's hard to get around that when it's like three different offensive coordinators, different coaching staffs, different supporting casts. At some point, if you're going to talk about a quarterback in a certain level, they have to be able to overcome some of the issues around him. And there probably hasn't been enough of that with him.

• 47:22Bill Simmons?

  I'd rather have Purdy.

• 47:26Bill Simmons?

  Prescott's just done more.

• 47:29Bill Simmons?

  Stafford won a Super Bowl.

• 47:33Bill Simmons?

  Stroud versus Herbert's an interesting conversation.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:37Bill Simmons?

  And Goff has been really good and has been on the cusp of making the Super Bowl. I feel good about having him in the fifth level here. I still got to figure out, so Daniels love hurts. I think I'm just putting Mayfield. Like, why not? Mayfield's had good moments. I know.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  You like Mayfield over Purdy.

• 48:00Bill Simmons?

  Is it more fun to put Purdy in that?

• 48:02Speaker 01

  I like Purdy, but.

• 48:04Bill Simmons?

  All right, fine. I'll put Purdy there. I'll put Mayfield. This is why you're my conciliary.

• 48:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Purdy, uh, Purdy came mid the Super Bowl. It's more than Justin Herbert could say. All right. So that next level, I had Justin Herbert, Sam Darnold, who now is like being discussed like he's, you know, the, the, um, the 11th reliever on a, on a 82 win National League team. Um, Drake May, Bo Nix, Geno Smith, and Kyler Murray would be my level, uh, the level five pyramid guys. Um, Kyler is the one statistically that you could get more excited about, but I'm sorry, I, I have league, I have a Sunday ticket and I watch football and I just, that he is who he is.

• 48:54Bill Simmons?

  Like he's nine games under 500 as a, for his career. And I just, I don't know. Yeah. I do not see some of that elevates a team.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  I, I feel like I know how every Kyler Murray season's gonna go, you know? There's gonna be some flashes in September, in October, someone's gonna make the case that he's playing as well as any quarterback in the NFL. Uh, there's gonna be some fun highlights and then you're gonna get to the end of the season and they're gonna be like nine and eight and their offense has never been in the top 10.

• 49:22Bill Simmons?

  That would be a miracle.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that would be, that would be a good one. Uh, so yes, there is like, there are flashes there, but, uh, like Herbert in a way, like you need to see a little bit more at this point where has the guy put it all together? So I don't have an issue with where you have him.

• 49:36Bill Simmons?

  That's the LaMelo Ball guy out of the quarterbacks this year where it's like, you catch the right highlight package. He looks amazing. There's gonna be a moment earlier in the season where like LaMelo Ball, whoa, here we go. And then you look at the record at the end of the year. Um, I had trouble with May versus Nix. And as you know, I love Drake May. I do think we're putting a lot on him this year and he's gonna have two plays a game where he had one in the preseason game, which for the first time ever, Sheila, I paid for the preseason package.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 50:08Bill Simmons?

  I normally hate the preseason, but I was like, I gotta see these rookies. I shelled out my $14 and I watched the first three quarters of the Pats and, uh, and Drake May, of course, had his one, um, Drake May held on to the ball through, basically fumbled, but, um, I think.

• 50:25Bill Simmons?

  I don't think people understand how bad his offensive line, skill position, coaching situation was last year, where it was an F minus at receiver, at offensive line, and at coaching. And now the receivers, they at least have some speed. Henderson in the backfield, it looks like he's Jameer Gibbs on freaking steroids. And then, and then he has a whole new offensive line and Vrabel. And I just, I think he's going to be good if they can keep him on the field. The big worry for me with him is just taking hits.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  He's, don't take this the wrong way. I don't want to scare you because I like Drake May. He's got a little young Carson Wentz to his game. Remember when Carson Wentz was good, you know, when Carson Wentz was good, you know, MVP candidate, and you saw the highs, but there would be a couple of plays every game where you're like, dude, like you have to stay on the field. Don't do that. He's got a little bit of that, but I have a Drake May stat you're gonna love. I don't think I've mentioned this to you before. There's this stat I like called success rate. All it looks at is when a guy drops back, was it a positive play for the offense or a negative play? So it's like a 50 yard completion is treated the same as a 12 yard completion, but it's just good for like, how consistent is this guy? If you look at every rookie quarterback over the last 10 years, he ranks

• 51:41Speaker 01

  fourth out of 31 rookie quarterbacks in success rate last year. So like, that's pretty impressive. When you like, it's CJ Stroud's up there, Dak Prescott's up there. Like, there are good quarterbacks there, and his highs are very high, where like those 1% plays where you're like, 8, 10 quarterbacks in the NFL can do that. He's got that. It's kind of like, he just has to get those, like you mentioned, those two, three, four, or five plays where either he's getting crushed, or he's making a bad decision, or it could be a turnover. Like, coaching that out of him, to me, is going to be the key as to whether he just makes like a okay leap, or like a leap where we're talking about him as one of the guys by the end of the season.

• 52:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the Pats looked awesome on Friday night and they interviewed variable at halftime and then after the game and he did the Belichick thing where he was like, man, we look great. I hope we can play that like he's just like, yeah, I didn't love this and, and he specifically just kept mentioning the May thing. He's like, he's got to be better. He, he can't do that. So I think they're going to be coached them hard. I don't think people realize how fast he is and, and what his legs are and how, especially if there's actually guys out there making plays who have to be covered and the field opens up. They ran one play in the preseason where they did the classic video game play. They sent the receivers out and cleared out a side of the field and he ran. And it's just like he's, he's an unbelievable athlete.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:04Bill Simmons?

  Could he be like mini Josh Allen someday? I don't know, but I think they're going to be taking advantage of the legs. So anyway, um, Nix was the other one. Nix had 41 first downs last year, just with his legs. 29 TDs, 12 picks. He ran for 430 yards. He's in year two. The, uh, that team I think is, as you know, I'm all in on that team. I think that team's going to be really good. Um, and the fact that the Chargers have already had, uh, you know, have had a major offensive line injury. The Raiders have already lost Christian Wilkins. Like it just feels like they're solidified as the second team in that thing. But Nix was somebody that I, I feel like if anyone could climb out of this level and jump up a notch, it's going to be May or Nix in my opinion. Um, do you think Nix has

• 53:49Bill Simmons?

  another gear or no?

• 53:51Speaker 01

  That is the question because I feel like he's high floor and he proved his competency last year. But if you really look at it last year, his superpower was avoiding negative plays. Like he didn't take sacks. Like you just mentioned, he'll scramble. He didn't turn the football over and it wasn't lucky. Like if you look at the advanced numbers about, you know, turnover worthy plays, like he did a very good job. Sean Payton in his ear of like, do not create negative plays. Live to see the next down. So you have that. I think it establishes a high floor. And now I wonder, is there another gear where, cause if the other thing is like when he was pressured, when opponents knew he had to throw the ball, those kinds of things, he wasn't as good in those situations where you really need The quarterback to kind of carry you and everyone knows you have to pass the ball.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  So that's the next step and I think he might like I liked what I saw. I'm not, you know, I wouldn't plant my flag on it and be like, he's definitely going to take a step forward. I think the most likely scenario is maybe he's a little bit better, but they're still maybe in that 10 to 15 range in terms of offenses. But if he can get them a little bit higher, then it goes to what you're saying that they, they could be a surprise team.

• 54:59Bill Simmons?

  Next level is Penix, Lawrence, Caleb, Tua, Bryce Young, J J McCarthy. God only knows what's gonna happen with him. I'm not accepting any shit for the Lawrence being in that level. I, I just like, give me a break. He's 22 and 38 in his career. His last two years, he's played 26 games, 32 touchdowns, 21 picks, 15 fumbles. Doesn't use his legs really like the way we thought he might in college and we haven't seen him elevate teams. He throws, does anyone throw more hospital balls than him? He did one in the fucking preseason game. Um, I just don't, I don't see it and I don't know if being in a losing situation with all the turmoil and different coaches.

• 55:41Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if that was bad for him, but I'd be really surprised if he was able to elevate himself into like one of those top four tiers. Have you given up on him or you still feel like there's hope?

• 55:52Speaker 01

  I, I think there's a chance, but I'm not like, I see it, you know? I don't think this is an outrage. I think it's fine to have him here, you know? I think if you look at his last three seasons, one terrible season, one mediocre season. And then 2022, I thought he was pretty good. So it wouldn't shock me if he settles into kind of average. Hey, if the situation around him is good, you know, he can have a good year, but I'm with you just in terms of some of the stuff we saw last year. The bad habits, the inability to overcome some of the things around him. Now I will say like you, I, I forget who were you said, you said with golf, we're going to learn more about him this year. Shouldn't we learn a lot about Trevor Lawrence? If Liam Cohen can get that year out of Baker Mayfield last year.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  Now I know the Jags offensive line isn't as good as Tampa's was last year, but still like there was a scheme there where the coach looked at the quarterback and said, I can build to your strengths and we can have one of the better offenses in the NFL. I feel like you should be able to do that with Brian Thomas, Jr. And Travis Hunter and Trevor Lawrence. So I, I do think in, you know, we've probably said this in previous years, but we should learn a little bit more about Trevor Lawrence this year.

• 57:00Bill Simmons?

  You underrated how bad that Jacksonville offensive line might be.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:04Bill Simmons?

  They might be like legit bad. They might be a bottom. I have them in the bottom five. Thomas was a revelation though.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  He's awesome.

• 57:12Bill Simmons?

  He has to be one of the six, seven, eight most impactful receivers. So at least he has that. We'll see with Hunter. I have no idea. The Hunter thing, anyone who can say they're going to predict that is nuts. All right. And then the last level

• 57:26Bill Simmons?

  of the pyramid is the bottom level and it's Cam Ward, Fields, Rogers. Russ Wilson is the last human QB before we get to Indy, question mark, New Orleans, question mark, and then Cleveland, question mark. And I am not spending two seconds talking about Shador Sanders looking good in a preseason game against third stringers. I I'm rooting for him because it would be more fun if he's good, but let's all settle down. We can't all pretend, or we can't all say preseason doesn't matter and then overreact when somebody doesn't want a preseason game. So anyway, Cam Ward.

• 58:03Bill Simmons?

  What if he's good?

• 58:06Bill Simmons?

  Now, there's some offensive line stuff working against him. There's some skill position stuff working against him. That I wouldn't say it's the best coaching situation, but there is like some good buzz coming out about just like, hey, this guy's, what if he's good? Like, could, is there any possibility that he could be Stroud two years ago or Daniels last year?

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's probably the hardest thing in the NFL to predict is which rookie quarterback's going to be good. I mean, it just, last year with Daniels, the year before with Stroud, maybe like one person on an island said it, but you, you usually have no idea. I think the thing he has working for him is they did build up that offensive line where it should, it's going to give him a chance. Like, it might not be a top five unit, but it's not going to be a situation, at least I don't think, where we're looking at it going, man, he's getting sacked six times a game and is a disaster. Now, supporting cast isn't great. I'm with you on the coach. Like, I don't know. Like, we'll see with, with Brian Callahan. It's just sort of the least talked about coach in the NFL, but I

• 59:04Bill Simmons?

  There was some Will Levis stuff last year with him that just seemed

• 59:10Bill Simmons?

  It just made me question, question the judgment.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  Totally agree.

• 59:13Bill Simmons?

  It's like, what do you, cause they were gay. It felt like they would hang around in some of those games. And then it was like just mismanagement, terrible quarterback play, something really stupid happening. At some point, that's a little bit the coach. I don't know.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Terrible special teams, which is always, I look at that and go, what's the head coach doing here? If everything else sucks and the special team sucks, that's a red flag too. But yeah, like the, you know, the row above, you had Penix and you had J J McCarthy. It's like a bunch of guys we don't really know a lot about and are wild cards. And Kim Ward probably fits in that, you know, same group right now.

• 59:49Bill Simmons?

  So Tua, I had, you know, is a level five, like, you know, in the bottom 10 basically. And that is, that it's a mostly a durability thing. I just don't trust him to play four straight months. You can't, you don't want him running the ball at all. They have the worst short yardage stuff of the decade of anybody. And I think partly because everybody knows he's, there's no QB sneak, any sort of role or anything. Like they're just going to be like kid gloves with him. He can't stay on the field. And I think everything has to be specifically perfect for him to succeed. I've just never been a giant fan of his. I don't know. You, you're kind of where I am on that one, right?

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  I'm with you. I did think there was a case to bump Darnold down one and replace him with Tua. If I, if I were more, yeah, if I were more, I mean, they're 38 and 24 when Tua plays. And I know a lot of it's beating up on bad teams and everything you said is true. Durability, concussion history. If they play a good team, I don't think they're going to be good. But I could also make the case that Darnold has had one year of above average quarterback play. And that was with Justin Jefferson, Kevin O'Connell. Like I need to see more with Darnold. I think there's a, there's a, there's a chance.

• 1:01:02Bill Simmons?

  14 and 3 is pretty good.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  It's good. It's good. But it was one season. I think there's a chance he comes back down to earth. So I don't have an issue with it just because with the Tua, you know, he's going to miss four games most seasons. But I did think there was at least a little bit of a case there that he could replace Darnold.

• 1:01:18Bill Simmons?

  All right. So my finalist, Allen at the top, then Lamar Mahomes Borough, then Daniel's Love Hertz Purdy, shield the conciliary stepping in. So that's, that's the top eight. No, I'm fine with it. I think you're right. Mayfield, Prescott, Stafford, Stroud, Goff. So that's 13. And then the next level starts with Herbert. And weirdly drops off at that point from Darnold, May, Nix, Gino, Murray. It's probably a top 14 with a drop off. So maybe you make a case Herbert goes up one level in that golf group, just because it feels weird that he's on a level with Darnold, May, Nix, Gino and Murray, whether you're a Herbert guy or not.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I felt like.

• 1:01:57Bill Simmons?

  So maybe, yeah, yeah. So maybe I could get a little creative with that level.

• 1:02:03Bill Simmons?

  Move him up. So that would give me, this is some pyramid where it goes one, three, four, six.

• 1:02:13Bill Simmons?

  I'll figure it out, but most important, the last four going backwards, Cleveland with the worst quarterback situation in the league? Or would you, would you have them leapfrog in New Orleans at this point? They probably leapfrog, like Sanders might be better than anyone in New Orleans.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  I agree with that. I think the Saints are probably the worst.

• 1:02:31Bill Simmons?

  All right. So we'll have the Saints last, which helps with all the unders and terrible Saints bets I have for them to suck. Cleveland second to last, and then Indy, God only knows. Richardson already has gotten dinged up. Daniel Jones is on that team and then Russ Wilson and Rogers. That's our bottom five. And Rogers, I just, I'm just stupefied by anyone thinking Rogers is going to be good on Pittsburgh. I don't get it. I've talked about it. I know. You have takes on that or no?

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  The full list of quarterbacks age 42 or older that have just started 10 games in a season in the Super Bowl era. Want me to give it to you?

• 1:03:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Tom Brady. That literally, that's it. Nobody else has even started 10 games at this age. And then we saw what we saw last year. I'm with you. I don't know how you could be optimistic about that situation.

• 1:03:19Bill Simmons?

  I didn't see any semblance of a guy who wanted to get hit. Yeah. When I watched the games last year. So there we go. All right. My conciliary is Sheil Kapadia.

• 1:03:30Bill Simmons?

  We're, it's, we're here. It's football time. What's your, what's your favorite future bet you've made?

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  I like the Packers over. I think it's nine and a half for what we said earlier. Yeah, I think they're a 10 or 11 win team. So I think that's probably my favorite over right now.

• 1:03:46Bill Simmons?

  I think my favorite bet so far. Well, I have, I have a bunch of Broncos bets.

• 1:03:53Bill Simmons?

  That I, that I was all excited about. But my favorite one. Miami, Cleveland, the Giants and Tennessee, no playoffs, plus 103.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  Yes, you put the Giants in there. I like it.

• 1:04:06Bill Simmons?

  I did that when I was, where was I in Chicago for one day? And I jumped on Fando and I was like, I'm just jumping on this. If I had to say who would screw that up, it's probably Tennessee. It just if Cam Ward is awesome. And we're like, oh my God, Cam Ward's awesome. They're going to go nine and eight and sneak into the seventh seed. That would be the one I would be worried about, but that was my favorite. Yeah. All right. Shield, great to see you. Keep an eye on the Ringer NFL Show next couple of weeks because we have some fun stuff brewing there and in general, always great to see you.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  All right. Good to see you. Talk to you soon.

• 1:04:38Bill Simmons?

  Thanks. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right. It's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras and watch Tip Off Plus as the official beer sponsor of the NBA. Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2026. Ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details.

• 1:05:21Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by PNC Bank. In today's sports, everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other. Trick formations, infield shifts, constant rotation changes, yet it's proven time and time again. That strong fundamentals are the thing that will lead you to victory. Banking, no different. While everyone else tries to outdo each other, PNC Bank just keeps going right down the middle with steady, calculated money moves. And the financial wins just keep coming. PNC Bank, brilliantly boring since 1865. Brilliantly boring since 1865 is a registered mark of the PNC Financial Services Group, Incorporated. PNC Bank, National Association Member, FDIC.

• 1:06:00Bill Simmons?

  All right. My old friend Kevin Wildes is here. He is a national talking head on FS1's First Things First, and yet continues to have the worst home video setup of any guests we have.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  I don't know how to do it. You know, because I'm never, I'm never, you know what? If I figured out how to do it, maybe I could say, hey, I'm going to do the show from home. But since I've never figured out how to do it.

• 1:06:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  I go to the office every day, so I should probably invest some time. I still have three books. Like, this is the first day of the pandemic. I'm like, I'm gonna stack some books up.

• 1:06:36Bill Simmons?

  I was gonna say, Kevin Wildes keeping 2020 alive.

• 1:06:41Speaker 02

  I'm in the room we never go to. There's nothing cool.

• 1:06:44Bill Simmons?

  I caught you on a Sunday night, East Coast time, after you went to a family function, and I asked if you'd been drinking, and your comment, well, say what you said about when you have drinks these days.

• 1:06:54Speaker 02

  Well, I say I'm only topo Chico now.

• 1:06:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  And I'm very aware that even after one drink, I'm less interesting. And it may have always been that way, but it certainly felt like I was more interesting. Or maybe it's that I felt like I was, you know, just like rounded some conversational.

• 1:07:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  Or just like there was no, maybe it's just because I don't feel awkward at all anymore, ever. I guess I've reached old man. I don't feel the need to like lubricate any conversations anymore.

• 1:07:32Bill Simmons?

  You're just taking it 275 yards down the, down the fairway. You're not trying to hit it 300.

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  At the same time, my wife and I went through, because the kids were at camp these last two weeks. So she was going out with all of her friends.

• 1:07:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  Catching up. And she, and she told the kids like, yeah, dad doesn't have any friends. And I said, I have friends. And she said, no, your friends in town are just the kids' parents. I said, yeah, but they're still my friends independently, but I don't have any independent friends, so maybe. Maybe that's, maybe they're all tied together.

• 1:08:06Bill Simmons?

  You know, it's not just your wife that says that because my wife has said that too about how you never, you have all these friends, you never see them. And, and the reality is women are just better at coordinating. When we hit their 40s and after, they're just better at coordinating dinners, going out, doing things. And whereas the guys, we were great at it in our teens and our twenties, and then it just gets worse every decade. And then eventually you're like, I haven't seen whoever in three years and we're fine with it.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  Years.

• 1:08:36Bill Simmons?

  Five years, seven years.

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  I think my dad hasn't had seen buddies in like 40 years. But then I'm like, hey, what's going on? Like nothing, got a new truck. Like, that's good. And then, you know, the 10 minute conversation.

• 1:08:48Bill Simmons?

  Last year you came over to watch, what did we watch? Football or basketball? Or you came over?

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, you just surprised me.

• 1:08:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. You were like, hey, I'm in town. Can I come over? I was like, I was delighted that somebody was coming over on short notice.

• 1:09:02Speaker 02

  It might be the too much, it might be too much texting. That texting gives you a false sense of connectivity. Where you really should just like old school, like Seinfeld apartment style, just like Elaine's here, like just show up. So just, I'll just show up.

• 1:09:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I've seen a lot of my old friends this summer, just for different reasons. And it's always one of those things where it's like, why don't we make a concerted effort to do this more often? But the reality is guys are just bad at it.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  Well, too much planning.

• 1:09:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  I think it's that. I think it's like, hey, could you do, uh, you know, can you, hey Bill, how about, um, November 17? Like, well, I know I got this thing. And it has to be like, hey, tomorrow we're go, we're like, right now, 9pm, it's how you book the podcast, 9pm.

• 1:09:51Bill Simmons?

  But you know who's figured it out?

• 1:09:53Speaker 02

  Who?

• 1:09:54Bill Simmons?

  The golf people and the fishing people. They do like golf trips, going to wherever, going to Pinehurst in late April. And they plan it nine months ahead of time because you have to make reservations. And the same thing with the weirdo fishing people. So I know a bunch of fishing people and they're like, yeah.

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  You know what it is?

• 1:10:12Bill Simmons?

  We go fishing and then we, we all get together and we take gummies and then we catch the fish and we throw them back. It's like, what's fun about that?

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  It's smaller windows. Like, I think if we were into something with a limited window, like my buddy who fishes like, oh, excuse me, strike bass are running. So you have to, you guys have to hang out in this time period.

• 1:10:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  But if we're just like gonna watch football, like, hey, wanna hang out sometime between like preseason and the Super Bowl? Like, yeah, we'll figure it out.

• 1:10:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, week eight, week ten. Yeah, it's just never happened.

• 1:10:43Speaker 02

  Just never happens. It's like, you know, I'll get you next year. Well, you wanna do the draft? Like, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:49Bill Simmons?

  Well, we have, we have sporting events that will go to like a basketball game.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was good. You come to New York. That was good.

• 1:10:58Bill Simmons?

  So I forget where I saw this first, but somebody said when men gather together, it's better, they like situations where they're both next to each other, looking at the same thing forward.

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  I agree with that.

• 1:11:10Bill Simmons?

  But when women are together, they like looking at each other. They like being, and it's like this weird physics thing, not phys, sociological thing, whatever the right word is.

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  Oh, I like to look, I don't wanna look at, it's too confrontational.

• 1:11:25Bill Simmons?

  We like, like on a road trip where somebody's next to somebody, you drive to Vegas, or like you play blackjack together, you're all on a table.

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:34Bill Simmons?

  Where it's like, women like seeing each other.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  No, like I would prefer like TV, if like we all went out to dinner, TV sitcom seating where we're all like in a round.

• 1:11:44Bill Simmons?

  Like in a horseshoe? Yeah.

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  And then the cameras there, they, oh, what's going on? But you're never like locked in, mono-y mono, like, does this guy wanna fight me right now? Like, what's, what's going on?

• 1:11:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, you're, you're my legitimate friend, and I think I've seen you once in three years.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  The other problem is, the better friend you are, the, the, the less time, I have a, my buddy that I grew up with, that my mom taught with, I haven't seen him in 20, 20 years, but I have friends with him. He's my friend. But, you know, if we were worse friends, we'd hang out. Like, I gotta see that guy.

• 1:12:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cuz you gotta like almost. You had to make the friendship happen. Yeah, true. We're post friendship. See each other whenever.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  That's right. Just we're post friendship, post hanging out.

• 1:12:33Bill Simmons?

  I made you the second guest on this podcast because I knew your camera setup was going to be terrible. And now we've moved to a video podcast era. You missed. I unveiled my QB pyramid for the preseason. And Patrick Mahomes was not in the number one spot. It was Josh Allen.

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  You know, probably statistically fair. At the same time, like Zinell Owen four against him head to head.

• 1:13:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he is. He is.

• 1:13:02Speaker 02

  It's got, I mean, something.

• 1:13:04Bill Simmons?

  I'm trying to light a fire under Mahomes because I just didn't love last season for him. For somebody who's supposed to be the GOAT and I didn't like all the money I lost to them in the Super Bowl. So you know what? Fire lit.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, if he, the weird thing that's going to happen is if they win and he has another statistically mediocre season.

• 1:13:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  Are we just going to say like, ah, you know, it's actually like, look at some of those Brady years and maybe he is kind of like post statistics and his fourth quarter statistics are still crazy. His like record is like, what is he? He's like 700 winning percentage. Like when he's down a score in the fourth quarter.

• 1:13:46Bill Simmons?

  It's 14 and seven when they're trailing in the fourth quarter.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  It's just like, it's unnatural stat. So until those things go sideways.

• 1:13:55Bill Simmons?

  You still have him one.

• 1:13:56Speaker 02

  I still actually have him one. I like to, you know, tease Nick Wright about it, but and I don't love the hypothetical draft, like start a franchise, but I feel like he's obviously the answer.

• 1:14:08Bill Simmons?

  And the thing is, I'm not sure he is anymore. This is it.

• 1:14:11Speaker 02

  But then what happened?

• 1:14:13Bill Simmons?

  Like I just thought Allen was incredible last season and it's the classic. If you just switch the guys in their situations. How would each team look? And I think it's just, it's open for a debate, which is fun. And there's, it's the worst sports summer we've had all, all decade. So it's kind of thing we argue about.

• 1:14:32Speaker 02

  He was down like, he had the ball with three minutes left in the fourth quarter. And if I could like, hey, one of these guys is definitely going to score and one of them's not in the season's going to be over on a bad push push.

• 1:14:42Bill Simmons?

  He was so good on Mahomes. I know.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  I do love, I mean, he is amazing, but I'm still a Mahomes guy.

• 1:14:51Bill Simmons?

  Are you a Trevion Henderson?

• 1:14:53Speaker 02

  Holy.

• 1:14:53Bill Simmons?

  Like, what kind of stock do you have at this point? Kevin and I are both Pats fans for the audience. The Henderson thing was unbelievable on Friday night.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  So here's how I'm viewing, I don't know how to really watch preseason football. Cause like, there's too many variables. So this is how I've come to judge it in my mind. You know how they do ice skating? Like the spinning ice skating, like the flips and stuff? No flips, flips are actually not a lot, but twirls, yeah. They take all, you know, the six scores, top score, bottom score and top score get thrown out. And you just judge from these scores. I do the opposite. I'm like, what, let me look at this preseason game and look at your worst plays and your best. That's all I care. Everything in the middle that looks like a normal play, I throw out. I'm just looking for the peaks and valleys.

• 1:15:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  And that was a definite peak. All in, surprise, surprise, the fast guy from Ohio State still looks super fast. There's been zero letdown. Amazing. The Drake May thing, on the other hand, I'm surprised that is being dismissed so casually.

• 1:15:57Bill Simmons?

  Not by me.

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  The Mac Jonesian.

• 1:16:01Speaker 02

  Oh, you know, I'm going to take a sack. Let me try to make something amazing happen or just get rid of the ball. I hated that with all my heart. I hated that so much and it really put a scare into me. And hopefully it did variable as well.

• 1:16:13Bill Simmons?

  Henderson was genuinely euphorically exciting.

• 1:16:18Bill Simmons?

  He just, he just has it. You just know right away. It's like, this guy's clearly an NFL running back who's going to be explosive and awesome. Yeah, he's at least Gibbs.

• 1:16:26Speaker 02

  He's, yes, he's at least Gibbs is a fantastic comparison.

• 1:16:31Bill Simmons?

  But I mean, how they're going to use him and, and the kind of explosiveness he's going to have. They have speed and they can block. And I think you and I are both, we would have been probably leaning high on them anyway. But when you throw in the schedule and the coach and, and it's just, it's the, it's the entire recipe. But there's the Drake May piece. That's the, that's the one variable. It's like, is he a year away from being ready for this or is he ready now?

• 1:16:53Speaker 02

  He should be ready now. Here's the other thing no one's talking about. I think Coach Manjean, he told me this.

• 1:16:58Bill Simmons?

  Oh, what a name drop.

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  Josh McDaniels, we're like, oh, and we have Josh McDaniels. Josh McDaniels has gotten better. It's like Josh McDaniels has been like moving around, studying stuff like Josh McDaniels revenge tour is happening now too. So I think that it's just natural for all Patriots fans like, oh yeah, Josh McDaniels like proven quality. Like no, what if the Josh McDaniels last time you saw him is now a much better coordinator. Besides the fact that he got more head coaching. Now he's a much better offensive coordinator. Like, hey, guys, by the way, I think we had the ninth best scoring offense with Mac Jones. Like, I'm going to make this work. And he couldn't run a yard. Like, it's going to work. I made games interesting with Cam Newton. He couldn't throw. And now I get to combine those

• 1:17:43Speaker 02

  guys. It's an odd comparison, Mac Jones and, and Drake May, excuse me, Mac and Cam. But you have a guy who can throw the ball and run. I think, you know, I'm probably too optimistic. I'm like, if I had, if I had another Topo Chico, I'd start talking crazy about the Patriots.

• 1:18:02Bill Simmons?

  I had them 12 and 5 mentally two weeks ago. Now I've rounded down to 10 and 7. Now I'm mentally 10 and 7 again. I had a 12 and 5 stretch for like four days when they're all excited about the rookies. I know. I'm not saying it's rational.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  It's like if we lost their opening game to the Raiders with Pete Carroll and I'd be like, what? Yeah, like you guys are the Patriots. Where they're like, what makes you like, I don't know, we just, we thought we were awesome.

• 1:18:29Bill Simmons?

  Preseason's idiotic, but you can notice is a team like, do they actually have some sort of identity that they're going for? And for the Patriots, the identity is they're a violent team. This version of the Vrabel team, it's like a hats to the ball, people blocking after the whistle.

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness.

• 1:18:48Bill Simmons?

  All that shit's happening. Yeah.

• 1:18:50Speaker 02

  You know what it comes back to? Vrabel jumping in the pile.

• 1:18:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:53Speaker 02

  Vrabel coming up bloody. I just, I mean, I just love it. I would be, if we're not good this year, it's really gonna, I'm gonna really be doing some soul searching.

• 1:19:03Bill Simmons?

  Well, especially you think like Miami's not gonna be good, the Jets.

• 1:19:07Speaker 02

  Are we sure Miami's not gonna be good?

• 1:19:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I am.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  I'm sure the Bills are going to be good.

• 1:19:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Speaker 02

  I look at Aaron Glenn and Justin Fields, who I've seen torture the Patriots and like, and Sauce and Garrett Wilson, like, I'm not willing to say they're gonna be bad.

• 1:19:24Bill Simmons?

  And then Tua. I went to on the Jets, they, there, there's some sort of running defense, low scoring, kind of physical identity that they might have.

• 1:19:32Speaker 02

  They're, they're, that's happening for them too. And I know, like, we just assumed that the Dolphins are gonna be bad, but we're gonna go down there and lose.

• 1:19:41Bill Simmons?

  I'm sticking it.

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  Every year. And then it's, oh, surprise, surprise, Tua, who has led the league at some point in completion percentage, yards, in like, yards per attempt, he's gonna do something crazy again. Like, oh, yeah, Tua's actually pretty good. Tyreek Hill's pretty good. Like, Achan's, like, I'm just not willing to write them off as being bad. Yeah, they're gonna be like, kinda like, a chill team, cuz it's Miami, but.

• 1:20:06Bill Simmons?

  Offensive line is terrible. Secondary is gonna be terrible. I have no idea if their coach is good. We still don't know. He's certainly good in press conference.

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  He didn't get worse.

• 1:20:14Bill Simmons?

  Well, he's, he, he might have never been good. I think we just wanted him to be good cuz his press conferences were fun. And then Tua gets hurt every year. What was your bleakest moment during one of the bleakest sports content summers we've had? What was the, what was the bleakest show? What was the most forced segment where it's like, fuck, it's Wednesday, we got nothing?

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  We have talked more, let me say this, not too mean spirited, but there's a point where I think Trey Hendrickson's immediate family would have days, we, you know, and then people are, you know, dad's gotta go to Home Depot and the mom's gotta go, you know, run some errands and sisters, you know, everybody's aunts and uncles. I think there's days where Trey Hendrickson's immediate family talked less about Trey Hendrickson than we did on the show. Like, we talk a lot of Trey Hendrickson. I'm like, guys, I don't think Trey Hendrickson's a- Trey Hendrickson's moving the knee. Like he led the league in sacks in Cincinnati. Like, I think the deal's getting, I think the deal's getting done. And even when he does,

• 1:21:19Speaker 02

  when he does come back, they had a horrible offense. So it's kind of, it's not even, it's not Michael Parsons, which is the Cowboys into Micah.

• 1:21:27Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I can't wait to talk about that. I have a half baked idea specifically for that.

• 1:21:31Speaker 02

  Right away?

• 1:21:32Bill Simmons?

  Well, no, you're starting half baked ideas. It's your thing, but I have a half baked idea. It's peripherally tied to Michael Parsons, but we've been doing half baked ideas. This is your thing. It's been your thing forever. When I had my old podcast on ESPN, you used to come on and do them. We kept them going. We kept them going. And now, almost 17, 18 years later, you still have half baked ideas. I asked you to come up with some. I always bring like a couple of small ones, but this is really your show. What's, what's on the docket? Is it, do we have like appetizers and a giant entree? Is it multiple entrees? What do you have?

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  Well, I can start, you know what? I have a food, I have two food ones right off, right off the jump. If you want to do that.

• 1:22:11Bill Simmons?

  Let's go.

• 1:22:13Speaker 02

  Restaurant idea.

• 1:22:15Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:22:16Speaker 02

  I wrote, I wrote down phrases to get you interested.

• 1:22:19Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 1:22:21Speaker 02

  Food mediocre.

• 1:22:25Speaker 02

  Ambiance blah. Service unreliable. Location inconvenient. Menu font fricking huge, huge font.

• 1:22:43Speaker 02

  The font's huge. The bill, when your bill comes, that's huge. The fonts in this place.

• 1:22:49Bill Simmons?

  So it's just for people who, whose eyesight is kind of going on them a little bit?

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  They're not, they're not saying that. Is it called huge font restaurant? Maybe, but I would like to dance around it a little bit more. But it is a place I'm tired of going somewhere and being embarrassed. Like I'm not.

• 1:23:07Bill Simmons?

  Very lit, like huge lights, like almost like studio lights?

• 1:23:10Speaker 02

  Cause I hate that. I don't like that at all. It's just the font. The fonts out here, like the, like the, you know, the teleprompter you have to read at the Academy Awards from when it's out in the seats. Huge font. Oh yeah, there it is. I'll have the beef Wellington, just Wellington written almost like a graffiti train boom. Huge font. Bill comes. What? Is that, how much is this? Is that, am I gonna tip wrong? Am I?

• 1:23:38Bill Simmons?

  Right. You're using your Apple phone to try to.

• 1:23:40Speaker 02

  I don't do the phone though, because like the senior citizen, two tables down is using the phone. I can't do that.

• 1:23:46Bill Simmons?

  Probably me.

• 1:23:48Speaker 02

  You know what I'm doing? Dangerous. I take the candle. I'm like, oh no, I'm just looking at the candle. I'm about to burn the whole restaurant down.

• 1:23:56Bill Simmons?

  So not a huge font, not at the huge font diner?

• 1:23:59Speaker 02

  No, huge font restaurant, you're in there, you can, you know, have a good meal and leave with your dignity intact.

• 1:24:06Bill Simmons?

  Awesome. Good start. I love huge font, huge font restaurant. What was the other restaurant one?

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  Okay. I can, I had a nice dinner. I made a nice dinner for the family. Steak, vegetables, I'm on the grill, I'm doing my thing. We set it up, we got the, uh, we got the plates. Steak, we got all, the whole thing, right? Flowers. Only thing I can't do, and the best part of eating at a restaurant, can't do the bread. I, I can't figure it out. Either I get it from the store and it's like stale by the time it gets in the home. It's just like.

• 1:24:41Bill Simmons?

  I had to cut it.

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  I can't cut it. It's like hard. It's like a, a Eastern stick of, uh, bread. Or I've got bread in a plastic bag that looks like, uh, it's been there for a week and hasn't aged at all. It's like when I, you know, the algorithm is serving up all these like fitness influencers like I'm 74. I'm like, bro, you actually look.

• 1:25:04Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:25:05Speaker 02

  The fact that you haven't aged makes you even grosser. That's that bread. Ice cream truck for bread. Comes around the neighborhood, 515.

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  It got a little bread song. Who wants bread? It's maybe it's French. There's a guy with like a little chef on. He comes out. Oh, good. My hot bread. I leave like a, you know, a little French boy. I have a striped shirt on. I'm bicycling to my home. Come in, slice the bread. I've got everything working. Oh, it comes in a basket as well, obviously, like a cool basket. It's different types. I don't know where you get that bread. Pretzel bread. And then your meal goes to the next level and you don't have to deal with any, if there's not a, if there's not a large font restaurant, like within, you know, your vicinity, you can have the restaurant experience at home and not get embarrassed.

• 1:25:56Bill Simmons?

  That's like, that might be a fully baked idea.

• 1:25:58Speaker 02

  That one works.

• 1:26:00Bill Simmons?

  I actually had a restaurant one as well.

• 1:26:03Speaker 02

  Let's hear it.

• 1:26:05Bill Simmons?

  You know, I go out to dinner from time to time.

• 1:26:07Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:26:08Bill Simmons?

  Double dates, go out with the wife, go with a bunch of people. And this has been ever since I've gone out to dinner, even as a kid with my, uh, my mom, my stepdad or my dad or my stepmom, whatever. You go to the restaurant a bunch and you get to know some of the people. I'm like, you know me, I'm like, I don't want to know my neighbors. I'm, I'm not, I'm not friend. Other people are like super friendly. And some people will make friends with the mater D. The mater D. I don't know why I called it mater D.

• 1:26:37Speaker 02

  I wouldn't correct you. It's, it's R E. I'm not even sure. It's French again.

• 1:26:42Bill Simmons?

  Mater D.

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  I'll talk to.

• 1:26:43Bill Simmons?

  Whoever the host.

• 1:26:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:45Bill Simmons?

  And the person come over and it's like, and uh, come and do the whole thing. We saw this happen in baseball with, they sped up the game in baseball. They had the pitch clock. I think ma- mater D clock. There's a little bell on the thing. It's like a minute. It's like in chess. It's like searching for Bobby Fischer. They come over, they hit the clock. It's a minute and said, how you guys doing? Blah, blah, blah. How are you? Go anywhere, but, but it's gotta be done in 60 seconds. You can't linger for the seven minutes. Where it's like, one of the four people at the table who's probably had too much to drink. They're like, so what's happening with Rosa? Did she go off to college yet? And you're just like, what just happened? We were just talking about our friends who just got divorced.

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  We just did. Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:31Bill Simmons?

  Can we go back to talk about our divorce friends?

• 1:27:34Speaker 02

  We got the zoning for it to add another level.

• 1:27:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, just.

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  What are we talking about?

• 1:27:38Bill Simmons?

  60 seconds or less. Mater D, mater D stop, stop clock. Like chess, bang it 60 seconds.

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  Be friends. Yeah, I think that's fair.

• 1:27:47Bill Simmons?

  Friendly. 60 seconds is more than enough to catch up.

• 1:27:50Speaker 02

  That is, that is, you know, a third of a heavyweight fight. Like you can get it done in 60 seconds.

• 1:27:58Bill Simmons?

  This was the Sopranos episode. Artie was going over to the tables and hanging around too long. And then finally, um, somebody said something to him and his feelings got hurt. And he's like, that's why they come. They come for the food and then talk to me. And, and his wife was like, they don't, they hate when you come over. Oof. Don't come over. I think there's a middle ground. I like talking, but, but then get out. All right. What's your next half baked idea?

• 1:28:24Bill Simmons?

  We're moving away from restaurants now.

• 1:28:26Speaker 02

  I have, oh, this is similar about, about, um, about baseball. So, oh, this is the rarest of all things. Someone coming up to me, a fan of the podcast pitching me a half baked idea.

• 1:28:40Bill Simmons?

  Oh, do you like that? Or is it, or you feel like you?

• 1:28:43Speaker 02

  I appreciate people love the show. The show is very popular. You are in my, I, you know, I pop in every once in a while. But this is a very, uh, narrow needle to thread. Because if it's a good idea, I'd be like, buddy, that's just a good idea. That's not what I'm into. And if it's a bad idea, like, why is this guy talking to me about bad ideas? It's got to be a half baked idea. And it's tough. It's just tough. Next thing you know, my buddy, Tim, I was like, Tim, you've done it. That is the perfect half baked idea.

• 1:29:20Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:29:21Speaker 02

  Perfect.

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  So he says, he's like, I'm watching this baseball game the other night. Gets out of hand and they bring in the position player to pitch, which is fun.

• 1:29:35Bill Simmons?

  Always exciting. I always enjoy it.

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  It's fun for a little while, but you know, the bloom is off the rose eventually. If he's still in there and he's lobbing it in.

• 1:29:45Bill Simmons?

  Three innings. Yeah.

• 1:29:46Speaker 02

  It's too much. The other day, and I wrote it down, Rockies, Blue Jays, it was 12-1. They bring in the backup catcher. He gives up eight runs. So now the Blue Jays are up there blasting this guy. It's like, all right, enough.

• 1:30:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:00Speaker 02

  Like, should their stats even really count? Like, I don't know. So this is my buddy Tim says. He goes, you know how they have those emergency goalies in hockey?

• 1:30:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  Where it's just like the local guy who played hockey? They don't try to take a position player and suit them up like, oh, you're goalie now. They have a real goalie who's just an amateur and that's even more exciting because sometimes those guys like win games. High school, high school flame outs, triple, uh, college kids.

• 1:30:32Bill Simmons?

  They're just on, they're just on duty at the game.

• 1:30:35Speaker 02

  They're, yes, they have both jerseys ready and their high school hat or whatever they are. It's like, hey, it's 12-1. We're bringing in Tim. He, he works at Lowe's, but he was all state five years ago for the Falcons.

• 1:30:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:53Speaker 02

  And he comes in and next thing you know, it's him and Ohtani. It's so much better and, but he's throwing gas. He's not throwing these lollipops. He's really trying to throw and who knows, you get a little rally, maybe get a nice story out of it.

• 1:31:08Bill Simmons?

  So best case scenario, the guy's awesome and maybe gets signed to like a triple A deal.

• 1:31:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. I don't need to see, you know, it's fun for the first lollipop pitch and then it's like, oh, we threw a fast one. But this guy's out here trying to really throw.

• 1:31:23Speaker 02

  Got a few of them.

• 1:31:24Bill Simmons?

  I like it. So it's almost like, uh, what's the both sides QB in a touch football game? What do we call that?

• 1:31:30Speaker 02

  All time QB?

• 1:31:31Bill Simmons?

  All time QB. It's like an all time pitcher. He's just available for either side.

• 1:31:35Speaker 02

  Either side.

• 1:31:36Bill Simmons?

  We're playing in Philadelphia this weekend and our, our all time pitcher for the weekend. You remember him? He pitched at Drexel for two years.

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  Yes. And his buddies, the thing is, the weird thing is like his buddies wouldn't even go to the game. Cause he's going to be sitting there for 80 games.

• 1:31:54Bill Simmons?

  Right. But you never know the three times a year.

• 1:31:57Speaker 02

  He pops in and he's got his Drexel hat and people start going nuts.

• 1:32:01Bill Simmons?

  He gets, he gets good seats.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. He's always, he's just worried. Oh, he's warming up.

• 1:32:08Bill Simmons?

  So when it's, so it's like an eight or nine run game. It's eight to a nine to one. All of a sudden he gets, I starts, takes off, gets, start loosening up. Yeah, that'd be great.

• 1:32:17Speaker 02

  All the Drexel lung. The other idea I had of that, I put this one on Twitter of how they've made all these relief pitchers, their entrances have gotten really produced.

• 1:32:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:28Speaker 02

  Would you, would you be into that with field goal kickers in pivotal moments? The lights go out in the stadium. It's like

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  like Harrison Bucker.

• 1:32:44Speaker 02

  People are going nuts. The place going crazy. Or the other option, it's for the, it's, it's home team specific. When the other guy is getting ready, you play some like, I don't know.

• 1:32:56Bill Simmons?

  You try to mess with them.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, you know, non-confident music. I don't know what that is other than like.

• 1:33:02Bill Simmons?

  That Coldplay song that the couple was on the Jumbotron for.

• 1:33:05Speaker 02

  He's like, what was it? What is that inferring? Like it's like really in his own head.

• 1:33:11Bill Simmons?

  Or you play the Shining Music.

• 1:33:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, just something, but, but it's more. I don't know how much money and time the Nets are spending on that, but it really works. And the Phillies are doing it too. There's like fire and stuff happening. More entrances. People love them. No one's ever upset at an entrance.

• 1:33:29Bill Simmons?

  I don't remember. I don't remember when it started with the reliever music. But Papelbon was the first Red Sox guy that, remember he used to come in.

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  What did he come into?

• 1:33:40Bill Simmons?

  He came into the Dropkick Murphy song.

• 1:33:42Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, I thought that was just a Red Sox song. That was, he started that?

• 1:33:46Bill Simmons?

  Didn't he come in and that was the song, right? I'm old. I can't remember anything anymore, but yeah.

• 1:33:49Speaker 02

  I always just assumed that was a Red Sox.

• 1:33:52Bill Simmons?

  But I don't remember anything before that. It, that felt like the era.

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  Enter, Mariano used to come in to enter Sandman. That was a big thing.

• 1:33:59Bill Simmons?

  So that was late 90s, but there's got to be somebody before then.

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  But then it didn't used to be cool. Like it used to be like the Roll Aids Fireman of the year. They used to just play like the Roll Aids music. I think the Roll Aids theme song.

• 1:34:12Bill Simmons?

  Well, WWE had entrances forever. And then, um, the Road Dogg, Jesse James and Billy Gunn would come out and do, oh, you didn't know, your ass better call somebody. And the whole crowd would go nuts. And then in wrestling, they're like, oh shit, we gotta, it's entrance time.

• 1:34:29Speaker 02

  A call and response. And that's, then the pie roast started going.

• 1:34:33Bill Simmons?

  I think your field goal kicker thing is a really interesting idea. So Buckers warming up.

• 1:34:41Speaker 02

  And the place goes.

• 1:34:42Bill Simmons?

  I guess there's not enough time.

• 1:34:45Bill Simmons?

  We would almost have to be coming out of a time out or something.

• 1:34:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you just build time in for it. Like, he takes his, he takes his sweet time. He jogs out there. People are going nuts.

• 1:34:56Bill Simmons?

  I really like it.

• 1:34:59Speaker 02

  I had. Checking that one as a win.

• 1:35:02Bill Simmons?

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• 1:35:48Bill Simmons?

  I had a quick one.

• 1:35:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:35:50Bill Simmons?

  Restaurant related.

• 1:35:51Speaker 02

  Another one.

• 1:35:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Yeah, I've talked about this with Chang. Chang and all the chefs, they really get mad about this. My whole thing on dry aged steak.

• 1:36:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:03Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if you've heard me do this.

• 1:36:04Speaker 02

  No, I haven't heard this.

• 1:36:07Bill Simmons?

  All the foodies go nuts about the dry aged steak and, and how great it is. And it's so buttery and it's like, there's, it's a whole other level. It's like the greatest steak you can have and all this is aged for 180 days. And, and then you just get diarrhea that night.

• 1:36:23Bill Simmons?

  And I don't think the common person cares whether a steak has been dry aged or not. I think this is really for like the food elite and the people who really care about this shit. You can definitely, it definitely tastes a little different, a little elevated, but I don't know. Like, how many friends do you have who are like, oh, we gotta go to this place? It's 90 day dry aged.

• 1:36:44Speaker 02

  If you put me to the test, I would probably put steak and wine in the same category of like, if you say so, oh yeah, I can taste it. But I know it's not a hamburger, but like, yeah, I got this steak from Costco and this one's been hanging in like the Louvre for two years. And I'm like, all right, they both, they're pretty good for me. They got salt on it.

• 1:37:09Bill Simmons?

  So this brings me to my take because I think I'm like this and I think a lot of people are like this where it's like, if you say so. And this is really for your show and for the daily talk shows where you come up with stuff.

• 1:37:22Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:37:23Bill Simmons?

  Dry aged takes. You came up with the take, but you've been marinating on it for 180 days. And then you're like, guys.

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  It's ready.

• 1:37:33Bill Simmons?

  I have a dry aged take. I've been thinking about it since, since December 2024. And now the take is ready. It's a dry aged take. And it really is just a take you came up with anyway, but because you said it was dry aged, now I have to take it more seriously. You've been marinating on this for 170 days.

• 1:37:53Speaker 02

  It's a take, but it's not a take, like I'm not putting a take into the, you know, wherever it is.

• 1:38:00Bill Simmons?

  No, it's like a brilliant take.

• 1:38:01Speaker 02

  It's read. It's been, I've been, I haven't debut, I haven't been ready to debut this take yet.

• 1:38:08Bill Simmons?

  It would be like me saying now, I think Josh Allen is at the top of my QB pyramid. And here are all my reasons why. And I have it laid out and it's like, I've actually felt this way since February, but I've been dry aging it and going on pro football reference.

• 1:38:24Bill Simmons?

  And really trying to get it ready.

• 1:38:26Speaker 02

  I feel like you need to, you have to have some like proof that it's dry aged.

• 1:38:32Bill Simmons?

  I feel like. That's the thing. Do we have proof with the steaks? When they're like, it's 180 days. Was it, do you have photos of each day? How do I know it was 180 days? It could have been like 30.

• 1:38:42Speaker 02

  I also am too embarrassed to be like, so I just threw away some ground beef that was in the fridge because it said sell by, you know, August 5th and it's August or whatever now.

• 1:38:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:55Speaker 02

  So how does the 180 days thing work? Because I thought it was rotten. Is it just?

• 1:39:02Bill Simmons?

  No, they put all that stuff on it. See, this Chang is probably listening to this, losing his mind now. Yeah, it's like salt that cured all this stuff.

• 1:39:07Speaker 02

  But that's not my problem. I'm the consumer. They had the restaurant industry hasn't done a good job messaging to me.

• 1:39:15Bill Simmons?

  I'm a little worried that this is a whole marketing thing and it's a little like crypto. We just go to restaurants or like, and you're just like, yeah, it's a 180 day dry aged steak. And they're just making it up. They just bought it. It's like one day. They didn't do it at all. How do we know? People lie about everything. AI is coming. Our whole society is about deceiving other people. We can't lie about dry aged steak.

• 1:39:40Speaker 02

  I mean, I guess, I mean, yeah, I guess you could. All right. I got another one from my buddy.

• 1:39:45Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:39:45Speaker 02

  Lives down the street from me.

• 1:39:47Bill Simmons?

  So this is the same one who came up with the other one?

• 1:39:49Speaker 02

  No, different guy, different guy.

• 1:39:50Bill Simmons?

  I was gonna say that guy's on fire.

• 1:39:52Speaker 02

  For me not having any friends, I'm really just all made up.

• 1:39:55Bill Simmons?

  Filled with friends.

• 1:39:56Speaker 02

  No, no, they're all fake. They're all just AI bots.

• 1:40:00Bill Simmons?

  Dry aged friends.

• 1:40:03Speaker 02

  All right. So I think he, I don't know. I forgot how he got to this. I'm going to say he was on a skiing. He was in a skiing accident. I was like, I'm taking some creative liberties with this.

• 1:40:12Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:40:13Speaker 02

  I'm like, how you been? He comes over. He's like, oh, good. We went out skiing and I'm like, oh, that sounds lovely. I don't love skiing. I don't love falling down. He's like, yeah, I broke something. Had to get surgery on some bunch of surgery. I said, oof, that sounds bad. I'm like, did you have to go under for that? He's like, yeah. I was like, oh, it stinks. He goes, no, I love it.

• 1:40:40Speaker 02

  I'm like, what do you mean you love it? It's like, I love it. Like I gotta call an osce, I just, I love going up. He's like, I love anesthesia. I'm like, I don't know if this is good, dude. It sounds like you're like on the verge. He's like, no, I love it. So is he, so he's like, I'm like, you know, I'm gonna talk to Bill about, he also loves. I'm gonna talk to Bill about that, like, just like voluntary anesthesia. But you don't want to just like, I don't think that doing it recreationally.

• 1:41:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, can't you die during anesthesia? Like it's like relatively dangerous.

• 1:41:14Speaker 02

  Die skin, you know, you can die a lot of ways. So it's under, yes, I don't think, again, it's half baked. I'm not saying you should do recreational anesthesia. So I'm trying to, this is why I'm trying to, I'm trying to round the edges of his idea. So he's like, yeah, I love it. I'm like, all right. So same time, send my vol, we got a Volvo. We went and sent the Volvo. It's been gone for three days. It's just, we thought it needed a tire, tire change in the oil. It's like, no, we're giving it a thousand point inspection. It's, they're checking everything. I was like, boom.

• 1:41:52Speaker 02

  Go into the doctor. Instead of getting a, the, I, last time I got a checkup, they're like, how much she weigh? I'm like, are you weighing me? What? I could do this on my own. I'm paying for this to get weighed and measured and check. Yes, my heart is still beating. Go under. Run it all. Run everything. Just treat me like a Volvo. We're already crossed the biggest, when you got a colonoscopy, we've already crossed the largest hurdle. Just get in there, check the lungs, check the stents, check it all, man. What's going on up here? Just make sure nothing's growing anywhere. Check it all. And it's, and make it yearly, but really get under the hood. I, so I come out.

• 1:42:34Bill Simmons?

  Just yearly anesthesia, intentional anesthesia once a year. Just go to town on me.

• 1:42:40Speaker 02

  Checkups. We're extreme checkups. I want to make sure I'm, I come out refurbished. I'm like, I'm brand new. Heck, take some stuff out, just like. Doing these or like, hey, you're we just switch some stuff out. Hey, switch out. You know what? Your Achilles tendon's got 45 years of use on it. We threw a new one in there. Oh, cool. Thanks. This sticks me up, dude.

• 1:43:07Bill Simmons?

  This is probably where life is going.

• 1:43:10Speaker 02

  I'm just getting switched out.

• 1:43:11Bill Simmons?

  I like this. Well, it reminds me of like, like the people who who intentionally get IVs the next day after they've done a lot of drinking is the thing that's a 21st century thing.

• 1:43:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:22Bill Simmons?

  Our generation did not do. But some people swear by it.

• 1:43:26Speaker 02

  Well, of course it works, but you're getting an IV. It's part of like, you have to deal with the punishment. That's part of the I mean, that's part of the process.

• 1:43:35Bill Simmons?

  So it's how I felt.

• 1:43:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can't. You're not done with the race yet. You have to, you know, crash. You gotta, it's part of it.

• 1:43:44Bill Simmons?

  What's your next one?

• 1:43:47Speaker 02

  You might like this.

• 1:43:52Speaker 02

  This is a bad idea.

• 1:43:55Speaker 02

  What do you think about?

• 1:43:58Speaker 02

  Remember you kicked around the idea of like, there's some podcasts out there that maybe it's just all podcasts that are like two hour podcasts, but they're only existing for like the gold clip to to take off. And the rest of the podcast is kind of in support of kind of mining.

• 1:44:15Bill Simmons?

  Just trying to get that 90 second Instagram.

• 1:44:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that's what actually is the driver and everything else is kind of, it's like when you find out like, you know, McDonald's actually only selling you the drink and the food is all free. What? Yeah. It's like drinks were the margin. It's like, oh, I didn't know.

• 1:44:30Bill Simmons?

  It's like Paul George's pod when he's like, there's a time there where I was the best best player in the league. If you actually look at it, I was better than LeBron. Then it's like, whoa, clip. You have no idea what happened on the rest of the podcast.

• 1:44:43Speaker 02

  So I'll be watching YouTube's, uh, some random clips from movies. And and everyone's like, it's a good clip, a good scene. And then P, the first comment on YouTube is like, what movie is this from? And someone will write, I don't know what movie it was from. And then it'll be a movie like, I don't know if that movie even exists. This this movie might just exist for this scene. So not short films, just, just scenes.

• 1:45:20Speaker 02

  Like, hey, so I wrote down some scenes.

• 1:45:24Speaker 02

  I'll give you, I'll make a sports, this is a classic scene that I'll always watch.

• 1:45:29Speaker 02

  It happened, I think it was inspired by Die Hard, but you've seen it a few times. Bad guys that, you know, the bad guy's got a, you know, bad guy's got a Dodgers hat on.

• 1:45:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:39Speaker 02

  He's, he, he doesn't, he isn't like Dodgers, he's not, he's from somewhere else. And you walk up, you're the good guy. You're like, hey, who the Dod, what was, you get the Dodgers Lakers score? And he's like, oh yeah, five, four. Yeah, you're not a Dodgers fan, buddy. You're a bad guy. Love it. Oh, what's happening? You're speaking in a foreign language to your counterpart because you think I don't understand it? Surprise, surprise, I do speak that language and I answered back to you. So it's just several scenes.

• 1:46:10Bill Simmons?

  It doesn't, it sounds like AI could just do that now.

• 1:46:13Speaker 02

  So I want it, so, so I'm going to get to another one. Car chasing, going through different markets and things, fruits exploding and all of that. Then I got to, can you combine all of these scenes? And I just wrote down Die Hard in a Costco. Oh, where's that scene from? It's, it's from Die Hard in a Costco.

• 1:46:33Bill Simmons?

  And that movie doesn't actually exist, but you make it seem like it did.

• 1:46:36Speaker 02

  No, but maybe I'll just put enough, I've got, it's got like 12 scenes, but there's no like opening scene. Like the movie doesn't actually work. It's, you can't sit and watch the movie. It's just 12 scenes from Die Hard in a Costco, but you get it.

• 1:46:52Bill Simmons?

  I thought, I thought you were going toward playing scenes where, you know, when they play the scenes to fire up the crowd at like an NBA game.

• 1:47:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:01Bill Simmons?

  But now they have this technology with the AI where like, there was a great one last week where Aaron Judge was just like, Aaron Boone's an idiot. I wish I played for the Red Sox. It was like this minute long thing, but it was just AI like changing his voice.

• 1:47:15Bill Simmons?

  But, but I thought that's where you were going, where you take scenes and you can show them to the crowd. And it's just the stuff to get the fans fired up.

• 1:47:23Speaker 02

  That would work too, but would you get really fired up on that? People don't like AI.

• 1:47:29Bill Simmons?

  People are. I didn't really like it until the Aaron Judge Red Sox thing. And then I was like, there's something here.

• 1:47:37Bill Simmons?

  My dad got completely fooled like six months ago with a with a Kristaps Porzingis AI thing where he gave something. He just said all these crazy things and my dad was like, did you hear what Porzingis said?

• 1:47:52Speaker 02

  This is gonna be bad.

• 1:47:53Bill Simmons?

  I was like, Dad, Dad, this is AI. No, there's gonna be like AI disclaimer soon.

• 1:47:58Speaker 02

  That's gonna be the end of us.

• 1:48:00Bill Simmons?

  I have a really quick one, by the way.

• 1:48:02Speaker 02

  All right, go.

• 1:48:04Bill Simmons?

  So you know on Instagram, if you look at like the, there's, there's some thing on Instagram where you can look at this for you suggestions and it's all of these things and it's supposed to mirror the stuff you care about, but it's really like when you look at it, it's like, oh no.

• 1:48:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:23Bill Simmons?

  It's the stuff I care about. I think you should be able to pay extra for some Instagram filter for that section where it's like all stuff that makes you seem like a great person.

• 1:48:35Bill Simmons?

  Where.

• 1:48:37Speaker 02

  It's a subscription tier. It's just like, oh, hey, here's the charities that you've donated to.

• 1:48:42Bill Simmons?

  Like if anyone picks up your phone and they look at your Instagram, they're like,

• 1:48:46Speaker 02

  wow.

• 1:48:47Bill Simmons?

  Oh, man, look at this. He's just doing a lot of research on.

• 1:48:51Speaker 02

  Wow, I didn't realize you were.

• 1:48:52Bill Simmons?

  Human behavior.

• 1:48:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. I didn't realize you were this into like saving redwood trees.

• 1:48:57Bill Simmons?

  Like, yeah, I didn't realize.

• 1:48:59Speaker 02

  How much carbon dioxide do they take out of the environment?

• 1:49:02Bill Simmons?

  Trees this much. Wow, I didn't realize he liked clean water this much. These are all his videos.

• 1:49:06Speaker 02

  He's like, wow, this is really.

• 1:49:09Bill Simmons?

  He really wants the WNBA players to get paid.

• 1:49:12Speaker 02

  This guy's a really.

• 1:49:13Bill Simmons?

  Forty videos in a row about it.

• 1:49:14Speaker 02

  This is a great guy.

• 1:49:16Bill Simmons?

  It's like basically virtual signaling Instagram filter. I pay extra and then I just look like I'm like the best guy ever.

• 1:49:24Speaker 02

  Maybe it's just worthwhile, even if no one ever sees it, just for yourself, your own self-worth.

• 1:49:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So I don't have to actually look at what the algorithm says I like. Yeah. What's your next one?

• 1:49:36Speaker 02

  This is, I don't, well, this goes back to Drake May.

• 1:49:42Speaker 02

  This goes back to this specific play that we already talked about. So if you didn't see the play, Drake May is trying to avoid a sack. He decides to either throw the ball out of bounds or throw the ball for an incompletion. And while he's getting tackled, of course, he cocks his arm back and the ball falls out. Classic doing too much. Classic Mac Jones again play. And so the half baked idea is this. Everybody brings in motivational speakers right to these teams like, holy cow, this guy, this woman did all this amazing stuff. The motivational speaker that

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  Mike Rabel needs to bring in, and this happens every six weeks. Oh, a plane going from Paris to New York had to land in the Azores. Something wasn't right. Okay. Uh, this plane was going from New York to Miami. Uh oh, had to land in Dulles. Something was wrong. And that, you know, the pilot gets out and he gets razzed by his buddies. Ah, you could have made it. Yeah, Timmy, you're scared to fly with, you know, gas gauge. You know, you just tap on it, it'll work. You win. Ah, beard on you. And Timmy's gonna get up there. It's like, you know what? Yeah.

• 1:51:06Speaker 02

  Everybody made fun of me. But guess what old Timmy, the pilot didn't do? Lose the plane or lose anybody's life. Stop trying to do heroic stuff. Take the sack, tuck it, fall down. It's several, but then another pilot, hey, my name's John. I was on a flight from Dallas to Kansas City. I had to land it in Oklahoma City. You know what? It wasn't perfect. I lived to fly another day. If Drake May starts doing heroic stuff, I'm gonna have Mac Jones. If I'm gonna lose my mind, I'm just gonna go crazy.

• 1:51:42Bill Simmons?

  So you had the pilot come in and be like, you know, Captain Sully, you don't know me.

• 1:51:46Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:51:47Bill Simmons?

  We were flying to Hawaii. Somebody got sick on the plane. I turned us around and got us back to LA.

• 1:51:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:54Bill Simmons?

  And everyone was safe.

• 1:51:55Speaker 02

  Yep. And everybody was pissed off, but guess what? I was right.

• 1:51:59Bill Simmons?

  No news story the next day, but guess what? Everybody lived.

• 1:52:03Speaker 02

  And you know what? The best play is the play you don't make. There's no movie about me. I didn't get a raise. In fact, I got penalized.

• 1:52:10Bill Simmons?

  It's like anti Captain Sully. I like that.

• 1:52:13Speaker 02

  It's, that's what we need. Don't do dumb stuff, Drake May. You're so close to being great. This idea is not even an idea. It's just two words, but I feel like there's something there. What do you think? Well, I just wrote LeBron golf. Those are two words. What do you think about LeBron's golfing journey?

• 1:52:31Bill Simmons?

  So I know somebody, a good friend of mine is at the same club as where LeBron goes. So I won't name the club, but apparently he's there every, every day.

• 1:52:40Speaker 02

  Just like I want.

• 1:52:41Bill Simmons?

  With his son some of the times too.

• 1:52:44Speaker 02

  It feels like there's, I just assume there's lots of guys like me who are like, haven't kind of missed the golfing window and need a reason to do it, but I'm not, you know, it's like anything. It's like, hey, I'm just gonna start golfing randomly. My wife's gonna be like, what? Why is there clubs here? Why are you in the garage all the time?

• 1:53:05Speaker 02

  But I feel like LeBron is like my entryway. Like, oh yeah, LeBron started golfing with his son? Maybe I'll do that. It just feels like there's either.

• 1:53:13Bill Simmons?

  You better inspire a whole nation.

• 1:53:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's, I don't know if it's a reality. It feels bigger than a reality. It feels like a platform. It's like,

• 1:53:21Speaker 02

  he's out there and I'm rooting for him and he's like, hey, can you golf as good as LeBron? And I don't know. It just feels like there's something for Nike to do or for him to do to get a lot of people into golf.

• 1:53:34Bill Simmons?

  Well, the thing is, it's like the best version of a midlife crisis, right? When, when one of your friends starts playing golf, I'm always like jealous. It's the, well, cause it's just like, man, that's great. I would, I would love to just spend the summer trying to see how good I could get at golf.

• 1:53:52Speaker 02

  And then like his buddies like and then they're just, it was very just like normal guys at work. And like Steph's like, hey, been waiting for you. It's just so very normal. Like, I want to be in this. I was like, hey, how's it shooting today, LeBron?

• 1:54:07Bill Simmons?

  It's the first great social media thing he's done in a while. Like I'm invested in too. I want to know, like, I want to see his shots. I want to see, he's like one of the greatest athletes we have ever had. How easy would it be for him to just be good at golf?

• 1:54:19Speaker 02

  Yes. How good is he gonna get? And I'm, I don't even know anything about golf and he's like.

• 1:54:23Bill Simmons?

  Well, he's too tall. Everyone says like, and that was like the Jordan issue too. No, I mean, to be really good. He's good, but I think when you get past like six, four, that's why when you, you see all the like the really good golfers. Like, once you get over six, four, it gets hard because you just have more, you have a longer body. There's more ways it could go wrong on a swing. Right? That's why there's no, there's no, there's no like seven foot golfer. They're like, oh, the Croatia's churning out these tall golfers. This is revolutionizing golf.

• 1:54:58Speaker 02

  Busy playing basketball.

• 1:55:00Bill Simmons?

  It's almost like the running back position, like the running backs look like the best, most successful type of running back is always going to be like Trevion Henderson or Saquon Barkley. Like that kind of body. So six, eight for six, what's he six, eight and a half for golf? It's, it's hard.

• 1:55:15Speaker 02

  That's even better then. It's even more of a struggle.

• 1:55:18Bill Simmons?

  You brought this up. I'm also invested in LeBron's golf and I want to see how good he can get. It'd be funny if he was just like, I'm going to shoot a 75 by December.

• 1:55:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:27Bill Simmons?

  Like, could he do it?

• 1:55:28Speaker 02

  There's also like a whole Jordan element to it. Like if he gets better at golf than Jordan, or maybe they get together in golf and it's this great thing.

• 1:55:36Bill Simmons?

  That won't happen.

• 1:55:37Speaker 02

  I'm just really into LeBron golfing. I'm like shocked at how into it I am.

• 1:55:42Bill Simmons?

  Speaking of NBA legends, I have a quick one.

• 1:55:45Speaker 02

  Go.

• 1:55:46Bill Simmons?

  So I've noticed that, you know, every player, every ex-player has a podcast at this point.

• 1:55:52Bill Simmons?

  And Kobe gets thrown around a lot, like stories about Kobe, these interactions they had with Kobe or Kobe helping them out.

• 1:55:59Speaker 02

  Legendary, yeah, his legend continues to grow.

• 1:56:05Bill Simmons?

  Kobe, one of the things I liked about him when he played was he kind of didn't want to be friends with anybody. He was pretty famous for that. Like he was pretty cutthroat in a fun way and wanted to destroy everybody else and famously didn't have a lot of friends and wasn't one of those, what are you doing after the game guys? And even, even like at the Olympics, I think he kind of stayed on his own. I suggest, I think it's like a P I, but it's not even like a full-time job. It's, it's Kobe detector. Anytime somebody on a podcast tells some Kobe Bryant story, I just think it should be investigated. I want to find out if it's actually true or not. Cause my guard is always up with every, where it's like, man, then Kobe called me one night and I

• 1:56:50Bill Simmons?

  was in a big shooting slump and Kobe saw it and he, he noticed and he called me out. And I'm just like, I don't know if I believe this. Wow. I just don't think he did.

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  I'm believing them all.

• 1:57:02Bill Simmons?

  You believe them all? But it's kind of the point where I feel like anybody can say anything.

• 1:57:06Speaker 02

  It all feels within his, I haven't heard one that I feel, feels out of bounds. Like the Chandler Parsons, have you heard the Chandler Parsons one?

• 1:57:15Bill Simmons?

  What was that one?

• 1:57:15Speaker 02

  The Chandler Parsons, um, that they, they, he was on, I forgot what team, was he on the Grizzlies? Maybe, um, the Chandler, I, I should, you just cut to Chandler Parsons telling the story, obviously, but he, uh, they were like, you gotta guard Kobe. So he's like, very intimidating. Kobe was like giving him like icy glares the whole game. But then eventually he was like, are you guys going out? Like I'll, I'll set you up somewhere. And Kobe sent him, he's like, yeah. And Kobe said, told him to go to some restaurant. And then the bill came and it was like this monstrous bill and Chandler Parsons.

• 1:57:52Bill Simmons?

  I've heard this story.

• 1:57:53Speaker 02

  And then he's like, no, Mr. Bryant is taking care of it. But Kobe wasn't there. That's why I liked the story. It's like, no.

• 1:57:58Bill Simmons?

  This is why we need Kobe. So this, maybe it's a podcast, code detector. There's a Kobe story and, and the host is just like, all right, time for a deep dive. It's a little like Pablo's podcast.

• 1:58:09Speaker 02

  Every, I just love every story. I just, every story I like. I have one more. It's, this is not even.

• 1:58:16Bill Simmons?

  I have one more as well.

• 1:58:17Speaker 02

  I have one more. The Savannah Bananas.

• 1:58:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I watched an hour of them. That's how bad the sports content's been this summer. I watched an hour trying to figure it out. It's pretty entertaining. It was like Harlem Globetrotters for baseball.

• 1:58:31Speaker 02

  That's exactly what I have. Also an argument against parody.

• 1:58:38Speaker 02

  It's the best argument for like, you know what? We're gonna be awesome. We're gonna be so awesome. We'll be doing backflips and catching the ball at the same time. So when anybody wants to start a league, just pick any, anywhere professional. Let's pickleball. They'll pick one out of the air. And it's like, all right, we're gonna have all these teams from all these places. And they're all gonna have a real challenge and all like it'll be. Everyone thinks that it's the NFL model where parody works. No, have your pickleball league and put Pete Sampras and Roger Federer on one team and a bunch of regular guys on the other team and have them crush. That's what, how it works. That's how sports works. Hey, you know what was good?

• 1:59:21Speaker 02

  The New York Yankees with Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig and they won 20 some odd championship. We like that. Oh, the Celtics. We like that. That's how leagues get started. Dynasties and one team crushing, not just like, oh, they're all good. Like, hey, who won the Frisbee, Frisbee football championship?

• 1:59:39Bill Simmons?

  So you want to, you want a lower class for leagues?

• 1:59:42Speaker 02

  No, I just want, I want a normal league, but with a stacked. I'm anti-parody.

• 1:59:50Bill Simmons?

  Me too.

• 1:59:51Speaker 02

  I don't want parody. This is really philosophical.

• 1:59:54Bill Simmons?

  With 80s NBA where it was like, there was four teams.

• 1:59:57Speaker 02

  So this is my most impassioned, you'll like this.

• 2:00:00Bill Simmons?

  You're a sports Republican.

• 2:00:07Speaker 02

  By, by not allowing, you know, putting a cap on compensation for superstars.

• 2:00:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:15Speaker 02

  You are not only in the, in the effort to have parody in the league. What you're actually doing is putting a cap on the excellence of the sport. Like, we still haven't seen the best basketball team ever. Like just

• 2:00:31Bill Simmons?

  The closest we came in this century was the 2017 Warriors who achieved it by this complete salary cap fluke combined with Curry's contract and then that was probably the best team we've seen.

• 2:00:42Speaker 02

  Yes. So like, and it brought basketball to another level. Like, what's the next level of basketball look like? We're not actually going to get a chance to see it because we don't have the best talent playing together.

• 2:00:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:56Speaker 02

  So then when you have the Olympics, like, sure, but that's kind of like tossed together. But like, the, the best basketball is still, like, what is the Manhattan Project of basketball? Like, here are the 10 greatest basketball players. What does that look like? What are we going to unlock? Like, I'm there. That's what I want to see. But now it's like, no, you take the 10 best players, they're all on separate teams. Everyone gets a bite at the apple. It's like, it's, it hurts the sport, the sport's potential. It's a very, very heady half-baked idea. I don't even know if that big idea started.

• 2:01:35Bill Simmons?

  What was the idea?

• 2:01:36Speaker 02

  I don't know. That you need to have.

• 2:01:39Bill Simmons?

  Get rid of the salary cap and have more Savannah Bananas?

• 2:01:42Speaker 02

  You need to have like one superstar. My dad used to always tell me about the team, what was it called? The King in His Court. You ever hear about the King in His Court? They're a softball team?

• 2:01:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:51Speaker 02

  Like, yeah, we're just four guys. I don't even know. They played four on nine or something? I forgot what it was. But we just, we're so good. I just want to see the best. I just want to see the absolute best. To have the NBA be the best basketball, but not actually, because we've dispersed it so far. And it doesn't make sense for anybody. Like, you want to see great basketball? Someone's going to have to be paid $30 million less than they deserve is nuts. So I just, we're still waiting to see great basketball. I don't know how that.

• 2:02:22Bill Simmons?

  Now, we're never seeing it.

• 2:02:24Speaker 02

  That's not good.

• 2:02:25Bill Simmons?

  Half-baked idea is actually just a fully baked idea. Let's not have a salary cap in the NBA anymore.

• 2:02:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's see awesome basketball.

• 2:02:31Bill Simmons?

  Let's go nuts. Yeah.

• 2:02:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm, I'm for that. Like soccer, guess what? It's awesome. All the great players are playing together. Yeah.

• 2:02:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that is true.

• 2:02:39Speaker 02

  It's, guess what? The whole sport looks different. It looks awesome. Now, it's, maybe we would, maybe we would break free from, you know, layups and threes if you put great players on the team and they figured out something brand new. I'm viewing it like a AI experiment.

• 2:02:56Speaker 02

  That one got off the tracks.

• 2:02:59Bill Simmons?

  That went sideways, but I enjoyed it.

• 2:03:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:03:03Bill Simmons?

  I was the most excited for this one.

• 2:03:05Speaker 02

  This is your Michael Parsons one?

• 2:03:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:07Speaker 02

  Okay, here we go.

• 2:03:08Bill Simmons?

  So the Michael Parsons things happened and obviously you had to do probably 100 segments on it.

• 2:03:14Speaker 02

  Several, yes.

• 2:03:14Bill Simmons?

  There was nothing going on.

• 2:03:15Speaker 02

  We're all over it.

• 2:03:17Bill Simmons?

  It was interesting, all the ex-players who are on these shows, it goes to them like, yeah, pay him.

• 2:03:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, pay him. He's Michael Parsons. You gotta pay him.

• 2:03:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:27Bill Simmons?

  And that was kind of the ex-player take across the board. And I was thinking like, you know how they have Cameo where the celebrities, you could be like, it's Kevin Wild's birthday. And Steven Seagal sent Kevin Wild's a birthday message. Hey, Kevin, it's Steven Seagal. Love your stuff. This is like Cameo, but it's with actual daily talk shows. So like first things first.

• 2:03:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:50Bill Simmons?

  For like a thousand dollars. Um, I, I, I'm working in like a hardware store and the assistant manager wants a raise. And they won't give him a raise. And the assistant manager goes to first, first things first Cameo. And he's like, can you guys do a segment about how I've been here for three years?

• 2:04:10Speaker 02

  We lay out all the arguments.

• 2:04:12Bill Simmons?

  And you'd be like, hey, Bob's been there three years. The store's up 20%. You gotta pay him.

• 2:04:17Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:04:17Bill Simmons?

  And you guys just go around and then you guys just, you do pay him for all these people around the world.

• 2:04:23Speaker 02

  And then there's one.

• 2:04:23Bill Simmons?

  Tenured professors at like, you know, Middlebury College.

• 2:04:27Speaker 02

  Love it. We do a lot of research for it and we're like, ready to go.

• 2:04:31Bill Simmons?

  And you're like passionately talking about how they should pay him. And then they sent, he sends a video to his boss and was like, if he saw this.

• 2:04:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:04:38Bill Simmons?

  Kevin Wild and Nick Ray and Broussard were talking about how I should be paid.

• 2:04:41Speaker 02

  There's one person that has to like be the sacrificial lamb.

• 2:04:44Bill Simmons?

  Oh, the Z.

• 2:04:45Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:04:45Bill Simmons?

  Z guy.

• 2:04:46Speaker 02

  I wouldn't pay him. I, I wouldn't pay. And he just gets crushed. Like all.

• 2:04:52Bill Simmons?

  See, I don't know. If you look at the Nescak schools, tenured professors.

• 2:04:57Speaker 02

  That data is outdated. You're like, what? What the heck? Like, you just get crushed. Like, oh, man, I now you put it that way. So it has a little bit of an arc to it. Oh, that's smart, actually.

• 2:05:09Bill Simmons?

  You know, that Trump with the not letting international students in, tuition's down, there's less money for the school. We can't have tenure. And he was like, no, stop it. That's bullshit. The guy's doing a good job. You should get more money. You gotta pay him. And we just simulate that with all walks of, uh, oh, walks of American workforce.

• 2:05:26Speaker 02

  Take, that's a great take. That's a nice auxiliary piece of me. The, the challenge here, and this is why I like it, cause it's half baked.

• 2:05:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. How do you get the shows to actually do this?

• 2:05:36Speaker 02

  No, no, good to do it on our free time. The person who, it's a real gamble for them because they already need more money, right? They're, they're already underpaid. Then they're gonna have to pay us to do it.

• 2:05:49Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:05:50Speaker 02

  So, you know, it's not super lucrative. There's actually, I hate to say it, there's probably more money in the not pay him. Like, look, we gotta give this guy a $50,000 bump. We pay you guys five grand for a segment, caught him down.

• 2:06:01Bill Simmons?

  It's like a commission.

• 2:06:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like, oh, gosh darn it. We actually had.

• 2:06:06Bill Simmons?

  This is where AI is going, where we could just AI the pay him thing.

• 2:06:11Bill Simmons?

  What's the scenario where the ex players wouldn't want the guy to get paid?

• 2:06:17Bill Simmons?

  Does that happen yet? I guess maybe Bradley Beal.

• 2:06:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, sometimes.

• 2:06:21Bill Simmons?

  Trade cop for Bradley Beal.

• 2:06:23Speaker 02

  You don't wanna like run into the same guy at the restaurant. Like, why did you try to convince people not to pay me $20 million? Like, sorry, we just needed to do content that day.

• 2:06:33Bill Simmons?

  Sorry, I needed a zag.

• 2:06:35Speaker 02

  Buy you, me buy you a bottle of wine. Like, no.

• 2:06:39Bill Simmons?

  All right. Have baked ideas. We've done it again.

• 2:06:42Speaker 02

  That was great.

• 2:06:43Bill Simmons?

  You stayed up late on, on Sunday night for me. I appreciate it. We talked about friendship, restaurants,

• 2:06:49Speaker 02

  It's really sincere.

• 2:06:51Bill Simmons?

  Golf, all, all over the place. Uh, all right. Wow. It's good to see you. We can see you on first things first.

• 2:06:56Speaker 02

  Years.

• 2:06:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Let me know. Give me no notice at all and just come on over. I'll be here.

• 2:07:01Speaker 02

  I'll see you 2030.

• 2:07:02Bill Simmons?

  All right. Thanks, Wild. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sheil and Wilds. Thanks to Gahad and Eduardo as well. Uh, I have another podcast coming probably Thursday. It's gonna be a good one.

• 2:07:17Bill Simmons?

  And then I have rewatchables Monday night Rollerball, 50th anniversary of the second great sports movie that we've had in the last 50 years. The first one's Longest Yard, 1974, Rollerball, 1975, and then we're off. We have this little sports movie boom. So Brian Koppman and I, we covered everything. Really, really, really, really kooky podcast. So I highly recommend it. That is coming and I will see you later in the week on this pod.

• 2:07:56Bill Simmons?

  Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8778-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy

• 2:08:40Bill Simmons?

  Award winner Martin McDonagh, writer-director of The Banshees of Minnehoshan and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys, Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9. Only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now. This episode is brought to you by Core Power Protein Shakes. You know how we always talk about the little things that separate great athletes? Post-workout recovery is

• 2:09:25Bill Simmons?

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