439. How to chase your dreams, and when to slow down ft. Grace Beverley

TW: Discussions of miscarriage/pregnancy Grace Beverley is a founder, an entrepreneur, and a seasoned professional when it comes to pursuing the ideas your have, but also knowing when to slow down, recover from burnout and let yourself be vulnerable. In today's episode we discuss her journey from studying music at Oxford to launching over five businesses, and her next chapter as a parent. We talk about: The best career advice for your 20s How to start a business and her biggest lessons from early failures Why love should make you feel safe Her pregnancy loss story The importance of being vocal about what you believe in How to recover from burnout Listen now! Watch on Netflix: HERE https://netflix.com/thepsychologyofyour20s Follow Grace on Instagram: @gracebeverley https://www.instagram.com/gracebeverley/?hl=en-gb Shop TALA: HERE https://www.wearetala.com/?srsltid=AfmBOop594UcCRMhU3GKbZ6Smd2UWysarfiantCj-h2AluQT8LoEdAvP Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg https://www.instagram.com/jemmasbeg/?hl=en# Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast https://www.instagram.com/thatpsychologypodcast/?hl=en# Subscribe on Substack: @thepsychologyofyour20s https://substack.com/@thepsychologyofyour20s For business: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:20Jemma Sbeg?

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• 3:22Jemma Sbeg?

  Hello, everybody. I'm Jemma Sbeg and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology.

• 3:41Jemma Sbeg?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our twenties. There has been one special individual that we have wanted to have on the podcast for a long time. Someone who has had such an interesting career trajectory and life that I think contains so many lessons for others in their twenties. She's basically lived many lives during this decade, which is a testament to her work ethic. But also, I think, just our general ability to evolve time and time again. You may know her as the founder of Tala Shreddy, the Productivity Method, or if you are an OG fan for her workout guides and plans. She is also the host of the podcast Working Hard in Oxford Grad,

• 4:27Jemma Sbeg?

  a genuinely all-around cool person who we know and love, Grace Beverley. Welcome to the Psychology of Your Twenties.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. Also, you're so good at reading. You must have loved when they came to you in class and they were like, can you read this sentence, please? You did not stutter once.

• 4:42Jemma Sbeg?

  Well, I practiced. No, I didn't.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  That's amazing. Reading comprehension.

• 4:46Jemma Sbeg?

  I'm gonna put that up.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Reading comprehension.

• 4:48Jemma Sbeg?

  One hand weird. Um, we were saying like before we started that when I read out the intros, you're like sitting right next to me. Is it like singing, somebody singing you happy birthday?

• 4:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, but then also saying like 10 nice things about you afterwards.

• 4:59Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, it never ends. Yeah, it is a lot. Okay. Briefly introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are as a person and then we're gonna do some icebreakers.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Perfect. So I'm Grace. Um, what am I gonna say about myself? Um, so I am an entrepreneur. I guess it's probably like the most all encompassing way of referring to what I do. Um, but it's, as you say, have, has evolved over the past decade or so. So I started my first business when I was in my first term or semester. I don't know what you would call it. Um, at university and I have since started three more businesses. Um, and I do a lot of investing and advisory work as well on other businesses that are kind of, not in a similar space, but essentially like my expertise is around consumer businesses and, um,

• 5:51Speaker 02

  and kind of how they can appeal to their customers and grow over time and all of that. So I do a lot of that work. Um, I also have a podcast. I do socials. I guess just generally showing what I am doing in my day to day and my day to day job, I would consider the work within the businesses because that is what I do day to day. Sorry, by the way, if I'm very gurgly and acid refluxy, I'm afraid there's literally nothing we can do about it.

• 6:16Jemma Sbeg?

  There is something inside of me.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  There is a giant baby. It's just like encroaching upon my esophagus. Um, and yeah, I just.

• 6:26Jemma Sbeg?

  The baby doesn't like the podcast.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  The amount of gamma scone that's in my bag, I can't even tell you.

• 6:29Jemma Sbeg?

  Really?

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:30Jemma Sbeg?

  Pop one in, pop one in when you, whenever you need it. When you guys hear a break, you know what we're doing.

• 6:39Jemma Sbeg?

  I love that way of describing you because you're a very busy woman. And before we get into what makes you busy, we're gonna do a quick icebreaker. We ask these kind of questions of all of our guests. Are you ready?

• 6:49Speaker 02

  I'm so ready.

• 6:50Jemma Sbeg?

  Okay, three, two, one. Favorite fast food order?

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  As you can tell, I'm really gonna. So it's a question. Fuck, it's hard because I was veggie until quite recently. And like, that's not very well, you know.

• 7:09Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Catered for in, in fast food. So now like everything, every time I do try fast food, it's like a whole new world. So I don't know if it's my go to. You know?

• 7:20Jemma Sbeg?

  That's a good answer in itself. No, it's okay.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  I'm really bad at being concise.

• 7:24Jemma Sbeg?

  This one, I think, will be easier.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Oh, please.

• 7:28Jemma Sbeg?

  Last thing you ordered online?

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Oh, so I'm renovating at the moment and I have been, honestly, Etsy's market value has gone up by about a trillion this week, based on me alone.

• 7:41Jemma Sbeg?

  Stock tip.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Sorry.

• 7:43Jemma Sbeg?

  This is a stock tip, you know, Etsy's value, Graces on the, Graces on the shops.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Exactly, Graces on the shops, get investing in Etsy, not financial advice. Um, but I, yeah, I've been, I've been all over the trinkets. It's basically because we're so close now, I feel like I can actually start to buy the little things. I mostly want to save the little things for when you're in and you're like, oh, I could use something for that corner. But the things I've been going for generally like art, um, little like bookends, vintagey things I'm finding. Little, I got a label, a vintage label for like the laundry room door.

• 8:19Jemma Sbeg?

  Cute.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  Which I liked. So yeah, just a hell of a lot of little trinkets.

• 8:23Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah. And are you still excited every time a package comes? Or are you at the stage where like you don't know what it's gonna be?

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Well, I've ordered them to the house and I'm not currently in the house. So it's Christmas next Wednesday, in case anyone doesn't know.

• 8:35Jemma Sbeg?

  Okay, uh, last sunset you saw?

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Oh. Sunset. Um, I went on a little girl's trip a few weeks ago. My girl's trip baby moon. We shall call it. It's not actually. It was for everyone, but that's how I was taking it. Last, last girl's trip before popping out a baby. Um, and we saw some beautiful sunsets there and it was just so lovely. It was kind of, we were in this gorgeous. Village where you just walk down and you just sit at a restaurant, you order some calamari. You get, everyone gets an apple spritz apart from me. Um, you. Just have a nice little chat and like a game of cards while the sun is setting and that is just.

• 9:18Jemma Sbeg?

  That was God's plan for us all along. Were you in Greece?

• 9:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:22Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh, delightful.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:24Jemma Sbeg?

  Um, what would your friend say is your most annoying habit?

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Oh, where do I start? Uh.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Very bad at going with the flow. Me and the flow. Mm hmm. Not good friends. Um, which is great because it does mean for every. Trip or whatever, like, you know, they're like, oh, trip made out of the group chat. If I'm in the group chat. If you think this isn't making out the group chat, you are very much mistaken, first of all. Second of all, unfortunately, will be run as a military operation.

• 9:54Jemma Sbeg?

  Um.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  So. Yeah, depends how much you like that. Like, great, because you can, I guess, put your feet up. Um, but. You never know what's gonna happen when you open your WhatsApp. There might be twenty poles. There might be a spreadsheet. There might be a little tick box you have to fill in.

• 10:12Jemma Sbeg?

  There might be a Google Doc.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  There might be a Google Doc. Yeah.

• 10:14Jemma Sbeg?

  It's too much.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:16Jemma Sbeg?

  Wait, when you and your husband go on trips, do you plan them?

• 10:19Speaker 02

  No, see this, I know.

• 10:22Jemma Sbeg?

  I love.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  I know.

• 10:23Jemma Sbeg?

  Guys.

• 10:24Speaker 02

  Sorry to boast, but I, one of my favorite things about my relationship is that in the big wide world, I am like. You know, I'm, I'm feisty, I'm running around doing all my independent things. When I'm at home, I am baby. When I'm in that like relationship, I am, I, I baby. Yeah, I baby no do things. Baby feet up, baby tummy tickles.

• 10:50Jemma Sbeg?

  Baby. Baby get fed.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  Free time. Baby get fed well. Baby don't know what airport going from, what terminal, what time plane. And that as someone who is like so aggressively type A and organizes every single other thing in their life. Like that is, I never thought I could have that from a relationship because I did kind of come to terms with the fact that I was like, this is just who I am. I can't expect anyone else to have such high standards of organization. Because obviously you're taking it too far, but lo and behold.

• 11:23Jemma Sbeg?

  Here he came.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  But here he came.

• 11:25Jemma Sbeg?

  There he was.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Flying around the corner and now I get to be baby.

• 11:30Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, the best. Okay, two more, texting or voice notes?

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Um, I'm big on voice notes.

• 11:37Jemma Sbeg?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Um, I just think there has to be a regular cadence of them. And I think that, I don't know, I think they need to solve a, like to serve a purpose. So for example, if you're going quickly back and forth in the work day, is it helpful to have a voice note? No, like, because I'm in a meeting. You've made it very hard for me to multitask.

• 11:57Jemma Sbeg?

  I've got to listen to the meeting.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  Exactly. And no, I can't do that.

• 12:00Jemma Sbeg?

  Okay, and a book you think everybody should read?

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Okay, we were just going through some, some of the best books. I'm, I'm having a really good reading year and I think it's only going to go from strength to strength. If I'm able to read in maternity leave, which my Kindle's a good old one hand hold, so I'm, you know, hoping. Um, I just read Broken Country. Which, oh my god, was so good. I honestly, so I was on my actual baby moon, as you can tell, I had to have multiple friends' baby moon and husband's baby moon.

• 12:32Jemma Sbeg?

  When's the solo one happening?

• 12:33Speaker 02

  Well.

• 12:34Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 12:36Jemma Sbeg?

  It's right now.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  Right here. It was my trip to this office.

• 12:40Jemma Sbeg?

  It was my trip to Tharren.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  Um, and yeah, honest, I, I just did not move all day. I was completely transfixed. It was so well written. I have quite a strict over four rule on good reads. Not because I'm a snob, although you could argue, but because there are so many books out there. That if I'm busy.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  The chances of me, like, if I can just heighten the chances of me enjoying the book by it being above a four, because I think what I used to fall into the trap of a lot is that these really overhyped books. They still won't be an over a four if they are badly written. Like, I am so sorry to everyone, but like, I really am not a Colleen Hoover fan. And most of them are not over a four on Goodreads and therein lies the lesson.

• 13:27Jemma Sbeg?

  The lesson.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Um, and I, yeah, so I generally just go for above a four. And I have my whole want to read list and then I can just filter it by the average rating, um.

• 13:39Jemma Sbeg?

  This is a mathematical affair.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know why I've taken your, um, your quickfire questions so aggressively. Tried to expand them into the entire podcast, um, but yeah, sorry for taking so long.

• 13:53Jemma Sbeg?

  That's all right. You know what? I feel like we're warmed up now, though. We know, we know a bit more about each other. We kind of already did, but you know, the audience does. Um, let's talk about what you're here to talk about, which is business and life and work. When did you first start putting yourself out there online? Because that's kind of the beginning of this whole story, isn't it?

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it absolutely is. And I think that, like, one of the, maybe one of the misconceptions people get about my story is because it all started so long ago online. I think the assumption is that, like, the following was built first and then it was like, oh, let's throw businesses on top. Which totally fair, some of them were because I obviously didn't start four businesses at once. That would be absolutely insane and I am a little, but like not that far.

• 14:36Jemma Sbeg?

  Not that far.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  And I started my first business in my first year at university. Well, actually I sold my first products online within kind of six months of starting my socials. Um, and they had just been started as like an anonymous account where I was just posting about like my fitness journey. So I was interested in staying disciplined and going to the gym and that was not something that I had within my wheelhouse. Um, it just wasn't something that I was capable of doing. And so I started the account as an, I guess, like an accountability thing while I was in my last year of sixth form. I don't know what you would call it.

• 15:12Jemma Sbeg?

  Just like the last year of, like.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like high school, but like, not if you, like, it's the two years after if you left at sixteen. So like the eighteen one.

• 15:19Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  Um, and I, yeah, I.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Just started up the account. As I said, it was anonymous. I didn't show my face, all of that. Um, started and then started selling products on there a few months later. Um, and then by the time I actually went to start what I consider now, like my first business. I, it was about a year later and I guess I just had like a year experimenting with the, because the first products I sold were digital ebooks and, or just ebooks. They are digital. Um, and essentially, I guess I'd kind of played around with that, that year being like, oh, okay. Well, if I put it twenty percent off. Or like a flash sale, then more people come in, or I put it like a bundle deal and people buy, you know. People are more likely to buy two than one, or like, you know, you do a limited thing, whatever. So I kind of like

• 16:09Speaker 02

  come to terms with how some of these things work. And so then by the time I started the business, like a year later. I kind of realised that that was a viable option and by that point I'd gone from having like one or two thousand followers to having, I think around a hundred thousand.

• 16:29Jemma Sbeg?

  That's crazy.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so that's when I started that.

• 16:33Jemma Sbeg?

  Okay, this brings me to some follow up questions. Did you show your face first or did somebody realise it was you?

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Oh, they realised it was me.

• 16:42Jemma Sbeg?

  They realised?

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, was it like, which is so I kind of showed my face out of like, well.

• 16:45Jemma Sbeg?

  Here I am. There we go.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Games up.

• 16:48Jemma Sbeg?

  And who was it? Do you remember?

• 16:50Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, there was a lot of chat at school. And I think also because I was, so I'd only joined that school a year before.

• 16:57Jemma Sbeg?

  Hmm.

• 16:58Speaker 02

  Um, so I wasn't, it was a school, obviously like with high school, like people had been there since they were like eleven. Um, I had not.

• 17:05Jemma Sbeg?

  Hmm.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  And so I was already kind of like new girly. Um, and then just, yeah. Word got around.

• 17:14Jemma Sbeg?

  God.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  And I remember coming back to school after, cause it was like after the Easter holidays and I'd been like, you know, doing my posting and all of this. And then I just remember coming back in and being like. I hear whispers.

• 17:26Jemma Sbeg?

  It's like Gossip Girl. Girl, real life fantasy.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  And it was very like, what the fuck? Because I think that now, even at the time, people, not everyone had personal Instagrams. Like, it wasn't really, like, we were on Facebook.

• 17:39Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Like, people didn't have personal Instagram. Well, a few people did, but it wasn't like, like, you'd be posting you, the toast you just buttered. Like, it wouldn't be like. Yeah, like, as in unlikely to even be a selfie, like, come on, pull yourself together. Whereas there was me, being like, don't want to the gym today. Here's a salad. Um, you know.

• 17:59Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  So it just wasn't, wasn't that well regarded, I would say.

• 18:03Jemma Sbeg?

  That sucks. But you made, I feel like you got the opportunity to basically have like a playground to understand business on your own.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  A hundred percent, uh, very low risk as well. I always, I think that there's like a lot of narrative online around like, take the leap, quit your job, do this. And it's like, I was very fortunate to be in the position where I never needed to do that. Because A, I started with digital products, which have basically zero sunk cost. Like, you don't really need to pay a lot to get into them. You just need to do the work on it. And like, I paid fifty quid to a friend who was a graphic design student to like, make them look nice.

• 18:37Jemma Sbeg?

  Before Canva.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  Before Canva, pre, pre Canva and the world PC. And um, essentially that was, yeah, to, cause I was like, it's an ebook, it needs to look nice. Um, but other than that, like, there's no marginal cost. So if two people bought it, it's cost me the same to produce as like one.

• 18:52Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  So like, every extra thing you sell is just cash. And so, yeah, it was like, I never needed. And then also I went on to university. Like, I've never been full time. I, there was never a moment where I had to be like full time in the business.

• 19:07Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Before they'd actually, you know, I then had three years of university to really like work it out.

• 19:12Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, that's crazy. And you went and studied music.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:16Jemma Sbeg?

  Which I think a lot of people may not know.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 19:19Jemma Sbeg?

  And what was, was it, I was like, I was doing some digging on the Wikipedia page.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  I hope you did the nice donation link to Wikipedia.

• 19:29Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, I always do.

• 19:32Jemma Sbeg?

  They're always like, we're begging you.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:37Jemma Sbeg?

  They're like, donate two cents. I'm like, oh, be rude not to. I always do it.

• 19:43Jemma Sbeg?

  But um, what do you think about studying music and like the arts helped you with business?

• 19:49Speaker 02

  Oh, don't know if that much. I think that the. Main, okay, main things I think I really learned from the like music background. Um, worth saying as well that my degree was specific, it was all essay based, so it wasn't actually like performance.

• 20:03Jemma Sbeg?

  I imagine you having to sing like for your exams. Okay, time for me, yeah, exactly.

• 20:11Jemma Sbeg?

  And that's an A.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Thank you. Um, but no, it was, it was all essay based. So it was like the areas I specialised in were like. Politics and philosophy of music. So um, music's used in like during censorship eras or whatever. Anyway, um, so I think that the two main things that it taught me were, one. It was a very, because of the university I went to, it was a very high workload course. So essentially it was. I had like ten thousand words a week for three years and then none of that counted. Well, it it counted in that if you didn't do it, you were getting kicked out. But it didn't count towards your grade until the last month. Um, yeah, and you were consistently examined, but not for, but for like your place rather than.

• 20:57Jemma Sbeg?

  So you can stay here, not even for like your grade.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Exactly. And so then it's all like culminates in this big horror. Um, and then the other thing I think that music and that musical background, I guess, really taught me was like, I think. You face so much rejection doing music and the arts generally, like there will always be people who are far better than you, like always. And you have to work so hard and put in so many extra hours and it's not very, well, it definitely wasn't where I was like considered like. Cool or prestigious or reputable or like whatever it might be. And you did that at the same time and like had to spend so many hours outside of school and university, like doing the extra. And then you were just constantly shut down, shut down, like the entire time.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Um, so it teaches you to have a very good relationship with rejection because literally just constantly like, I don't remember. Uh, like this is not due to be a self story, but like as in like, I don't remember a single time when like. Well, there were probably like two, three times total where I went for something and actually got it. Um, and it was, you know, the thing I'd really worked for most of the rest of the time, like you do a fuckload of, am I allowed to swear?

• 22:04Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Well, thank you.

• 22:06Jemma Sbeg?

  Thank you very much.

• 22:07Speaker 02

  Thank you. Exactly, I'm really good at those. Um, uh, like essentially where you do a fuckload of work and then you don't. Get anything for it. And in fact, you're kind of shut down and they're like, you know, the rest of your life, they're not gonna be like, oh, you're really bad at this. But like, you're kind of being consistently told, like, other people are better than you. And I think because I did that from so early, like, I worked like a cathedral from when I was eight, which essentially was like, like twenty or so hours on top of schoolwork every week um of music. And then like from that point onwards, it's like, it's actually just like a, I think the main thing it taught me is just like a crash course in being happy with rejection or just like being okay and being able to work really, really hard and then

• 22:50Speaker 02

  get nothing shut down over and over again.

• 22:53Jemma Sbeg?

  Which is huge in business and huge in entertainment.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. And just like, I think a very good life skill. Like you have, you, we see all of that, you know, TikTok stuff, for example, on like, rejection exposure therapy. And I, I think actually I saw a lot, like I, where you come across people who maybe haven't had as much rejection and therefore the rejection they do have really, really shuts them down. And that's a totally natural reaction. But actually, if you're consistently, like, even now, there've been so many things that, I mean, you know, obviously it wouldn't be public, but like so many things that I've interviewed for or tried out for, like whatever it might be that I would really want. And it's like, if it just comes through and it's rejection, it's like, oh.

• 23:38Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, great. Next.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 23:40Jemma Sbeg?

  I've been doing this recently, where I've been like emailing, emailing guests that I really want. And they are ridiculous guests, ridiculous. But I'm like, otherwise the answer's no. So let's go for it.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  A hundred percent of the shots you don't take.

• 23:53Jemma Sbeg?

  And I will say, the other week I was like, Simone Biles assistant, said no, and she actually emailed me back. And I was like, that's a win.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 24:02Jemma Sbeg?

  It was like an email back was a win. And I genuinely was like, throughout all this rejection, like the fact that I've gotten through and somebody's even can, maybe she didn't.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  My favorite is when they come back with something that like, it's actually a necessary color on top of the rejection. It's like, it's like, oh yeah, we really don't like this type of thing.

• 24:17Jemma Sbeg?

  We don't, oh, they're like, we're not prioritizing this kind of exposure right now.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  Just not, well, actually, we just don't like you.

• 24:24Jemma Sbeg?

  You're part of us at all. She's actually got really, not Simone Biles, but like, she actually has really terrible experiences of you and yeah. But it was really nice. They sent me this lovely email and I was like, that is the biggest win. A direct no was the biggest win. And I was like, this is great for my character.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  And I think that like for anyone who maybe knows that that is an area that they haven't. Got enough exposure to like purposefully putting yourself in that um track, I think is one of the best things you can do because until you're used to rejection, you're going to continually continuously be scared of it. And also probably have an underlying fear of even going for things where you think you might be rejected. Whereas like, we know that like the surface area of luck thing, for example, is all around, like putting yourself in positions where you could get lucky, like not in that way.

• 25:11Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  But like, what you got, you could do that too. But like, essentially where you like, we've said it, like you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take. So if you're not putting yourself in those environments, you don't know whether yeah, they wanted these, someone with these ten qualifications and you only have three, but actually they decided you were better at these other things. And like, you never would have known if you hadn't put yourself there. And if you're scared of rejection, that's going to be very hard.

• 25:33Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, it's a huge thing to learn.

• 25:40Jemma Sbeg?

  Growth isn't linear. There's no magic timeline or secret template. And no one understands that quite like Southern New Hampshire University. Because SNHU has online degree programs built for whatever path you are on. Tried college before? Transfer up to ninety credits. And if you're new to this, no worries. Every student gets a dedicated academic advisor. And here's the best part, there's no set class times. So school actually fits your life. Ready to get started? Visit SNHU.edu/sych. That's SNHU.edu/sych. Something that really frustrates me is when wellness brands greenwash their products to make them seem more clean

• 26:25Jemma Sbeg?

  or better for the environment, when they are actually not. When you look into it, they are kind of just like the rest of them. Nature's sunshine, however, doesn't just talk about the planet. They do something about it. They sustainably source ingredients. They craft their supplements with one hundred percent solar powered manufacturing. And their products are incredible. I don't drink coffee. And so Nature's Sunshine Brain Edge gives me that kick I sometimes need with potent ingredients, combining yerba mate with. Neutropics, adaptogens, botanicals to support mental clarity and focus. And you already know how much I love their marine glow and have for years. It is the only collagen that combines skin supporting marine collagen with the sun and blue light

• 27:09Jemma Sbeg?

  protection of lutin to make your skin feel and look glowy and protected. Plus, I just really like that they have nature at the core of everything that they do. Try nature's sunshine and experience the difference with supplements that are better for you and the planet. Go to naturessunshine.com today and use the code PSYCH for 20% off your first order plus free shipping. That's code PSYCH for 20% off your first order at naturessunshine.com.

• 27:39Jemma Sbeg?

  I've been approaching my health really differently this year. I used to be really focused on maximizing and doing more. And now I'm just realizing that if I listen to what my body needs, I perform way better. And that's why I am obsessed with my Whoop. Truly, you guys, you know I'm such a data and information driven person. And I love opening my Whoop app and seeing how my sleep, my stress, my strain is correlating with my mood, with my running performance, with how I'm just feeling day to day. I'm not an elite athlete by any means, but I do really benefit. And I also just really enjoy knowing more about my body. And Whoop also gives me these actionable personalized insights that have made me more intentional

• 28:24Jemma Sbeg?

  and meant that I make smarter decisions day to day about what I need, rather than just putting my foot on the gas and just going, going, going, going. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join dot whoop dot com slash psychology for your free month of Whoop. Who out here shops at CVS? Most of you, right? Well, if you're not signed up for extra care, you need to fix that. Because when you are, you get extra big deals. These are limited time offers you can find in store or in the app. And it's where being an extra care member pays off. So sign up now. If you're already shopping there, it's a no brainer. If you're not, well. You need to do something about that as well.

• 29:06Jemma Sbeg?

  Signing up couldn't be easier. And once you've joined, the exclusive member discounts instantly appear. You don't have to do anything, no coupons, you'll just enjoy savings on the items you buy most. We're talking about savings on essentials like household items, snacks, health, personal care products, plus travel and seasonal stuff too, all right there in store, couldn't be easier. Deals refresh every two weeks, so there's always something new, but they don't last long. Extra big deals with extra care, instant savings made simple. Head to your local CVS or open the CVS app, look for extra big deals and start saving today.

• 29:45Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over fourteen years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is. Lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 30:23Jemma Sbeg?

  Speaking of something that wasn't a rejection, maybe that I think was a great success, when did you get the idea for Tala? And where did the name come from?

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, I can tell you it was such a very boring story, sorry. I'll try it.

• 30:35Jemma Sbeg?

  Roll it out, let's go.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  So yeah, I started Tala in my final year at university, actually before that, like the, the month before that month I told you about. Um, where everything counts towards your degree. So that was really smart.

• 30:48Jemma Sbeg?

  Why, why did you do that?

• 30:49Speaker 02

  Well, because it was meant to, yeah, exactly.

• 30:52Jemma Sbeg?

  I love it.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Suffering kink. Um, no, it was meant to essentially launch a good while before then. It just kept getting pushed for a number of different reasons, like manufacturing delays, a number of these different things. And then I was just like, we just have to get it out because I'm paying people and we just, we need to launch basically. And it just happened to fall at the worst possible time. But rewinding back, I, I got the idea for the business about a year before. I guess like, I was very much like within the space, like I was wearing a lot of activewear. I was, I was a student and I went to the gym. So like, obviously I was wearing activewear most of the time. And I had really strong opinions on like how things fit and how things felt and I felt like a lot of.

• 31:32Speaker 02

  I felt like a lot of designs within the industry were either like super revealing, which actually I don't find that flattering on me. We do, you know, gorgeous, like strappy bras and like all of that and they look amazing. But I think that like I, it felt like it either needed to be teeny tiny or it needed to be kind of frumpy and I wasn't, I was like, actually, that's not where I like to kind of sit in terms of the designs I go for. But also, one of the main things was that I'd moved away from fast fashion consumption in my day to day life. So I just wasn't, I wasn't like, I don't know, I used to, terrible, but I used to like have contracts with like PLT and a number of different fast fashion houses and all of that, like with my, with fast fashion houses was really like blowing them up in the LVMH

• 32:17Speaker 02

  like direction, but yeah.

• 32:18Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, the brands, yeah, and they're, they're runways.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 32:22Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Um, but I had essentially had contracts with them and that was a big part of my job. And I literally stopped that overnight, like I cancelled all my contracts. I lost like seventy five percent of my income because I was just like, this is not something I want to stand by. I really don't like it. I feel shit every time I post about it.

• 32:39Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Um, and then I kind of moved away from it in my day to day, like actual consumption. And I just realised that activewear was like a glaringly big gap in that way because you don't, because you think of it as like a necessity for the thing you're doing. You kind of look less at it being like a cherry on top and therefore you're like, oh, I'm not really thinking about the materials or who's made it or any of that. And so I had realised that I'd moved away from that in my day to day, but not necessarily my activewear. And then the bigger solutions that I was finding for my day to day, which were things like rental and pre-owned and like amazing ethical brands, all of this were either not really available in activewear for reasons like pre-owned and rental, people aren't as keen on for activewear, obviously.

• 33:24Speaker 02

  Um, they do exist, but like, you know, you probably, well, you probably, like, that's the thing, like, there are solutions for it, but it's probably not going to reach a mass market change level.

• 33:34Jemma Sbeg?

  No.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  And then also with the ethical brands, there were some brands that had done some really amazing things, but again, they were like, they were probably about fifty percent more, price wise. Um, and so. I wanted to look into creating an option that was granted, like not about being small and artisanal. It was kind of, can we do better at scale? Um, so like, can we have some baseline assumptions in terms of like, what we are and aren't gonna do in terms of fabrics, in terms of factories, in terms of dyeing processes, in terms of sampling, in terms of packaging, in terms of all of these different things. Cause I think people think of, um, you know, those types of things in terms of just materials, whereas it's actually so much more behind the scenes, like

• 34:17Speaker 02

  zero percent to landfill pledges, not restocking during sales and therefore just, you know, trying to sell loads and loads of stuff at sale price, like all of that. And so we kind of, I wanted to create an activewear brand that ticked those boxes. And also was like, you wouldn't see a difference in terms of like fit.

• 34:35Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  And it wasn't fifty percent more expensive. So it took a long time because that's quite hard. And I think that, you know, there are a lot of ideals around what you would want from lots of brands you shop from. I think realistically, a lot of the time, they haven't been done for a reason because it's like not maintainable.

• 34:50Jemma Sbeg?

  Hmm.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Um, but we, yeah, I kind of got to starting that about a year before it ended up launching. And then launched that, as I said, in May of twenty nineteen. And now, now we're here, seven years later.

• 35:08Jemma Sbeg?

  Crazy.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  And she's thriving.

• 35:10Jemma Sbeg?

  She is thriving. I was there the other day.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Oh, were you?

• 35:12Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, when you were in Australia, I, I sent you a message.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 35:15Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, I was like checking up on your first baby.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Well, thank you.

• 35:18Jemma Sbeg?

  They was, you know, your top members are really nice.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Everyone's lovely.

• 35:21Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, she was, I'm gonna give her a shout out. She had red hair. That's all I remember.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Oh, was it at the Carnaby Street store or the Westfield one?

• 35:27Jemma Sbeg?

  Uh, the one in Carnaby Street. She was delighted. There you go.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  Everyone's amazing. And I think that like, again, I mean, like, it obviously is separate, but like, we, with the store expansion, for example, it was like, how do we? Create an in-person environment that reflects our online and kind of like who we are in HQ and all of that. Like really feels in that way rather than just being like, yeah, we'll just hire. These people in as quickly as possible. It was like, no, it's like, we're like a, you know, we're like a girl's girl brand. We're like a. We know how we want you to feel in the clothes. We know how you, we want you to feel in the shop. So like, we've got to represent that in the physical space.

• 36:04Jemma Sbeg?

  Other thing I liked about the Tyler store and then we'll move on.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Doesn't know you can go now and then just do a whole podcast on this.

• 36:10Jemma Sbeg?

  I really liked that, like, uh, you guys had all the sizes out.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 36:14Jemma Sbeg?

  I was like, oh, thank God.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:16Jemma Sbeg?

  Cause I'm.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  And a big conscious decision.

• 36:18Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh, great. I, I was, I was like, this is amazing. Cause I hate when you go to a store. It's like, so do you have, what's the biggest size you have?

• 36:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:25Jemma Sbeg?

  Can you get it for me? And it's like, it just kind of always sucks. And they, they, I don't know. It's not a good feeling.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. And like, uh, you know, there have been lots of, I would say.

• 36:36Speaker 02

  Like learning curves, because again, it's like you're, you go from running like, what's an online store? Where everything is in one warehouse. It is getting shipped out from one place. And so everything's in one place. To even like everything new you launch, needing it to get to one store, but you also need like. The exact right size ratio. You don't know who's gonna come in that day and like knowing that you need, like you can estimate it, but like. How many of those pieces do you actually need in the store across how many sizes, different colors, like all of this, like it's, you know. I'm sure we won't have got it right for everyone, but it's a, it's been a massive like learning curve and I'm very proud of like. The reviews and kind of love we get from how people feel when they're in that.

• 37:13Jemma Sbeg?

  You should be. Let's take it down. Let's take a turn for the worse.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, no more compliments.

• 37:18Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, no more good stuff you're doing for the environment, women's self-confidence. Um. What's been the biggest like, oh, fuck moment of running a business?

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Oh, there have been so many. They are every day. They are relentless. Um, no, I think, I mean, I actually do think that like that is one of the most defining parts of having a business is like. You are constantly just like on the floor, which is like, why? Like more and more of this, like my. Propensity to deal with stress now, I think is so high. Actually, for the bad reason of the fact that like shit is thrown at me every single day, like big, big stuff, you know? And I think that's just part of having a business and then you add in more businesses. It's kind of like. Just increases the cadence of these types of things coming up. Um. There are many different ones, like there have been big oh fuck ones like.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  In like twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, Tala very nearly went bye bye. Um, and that was like a good year long battle, like to and and within that, like, can't remember how long it would have been, but it would have been like around two months of like working out whether we're gonna make payroll every single week and being like.

• 38:32Jemma Sbeg?

  That would be the most stressful part, I can imagine, being like, it's okay if I go bankrupt.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I had times when I was literally like, I would pay salaries out of like my Monzo account. Like, as in, like, it, you know, I had like one payroll that we weren't gonna make and I was like, fuck, and I um sold my car the next day to like someone I found online, which was literally like a, what was it? It was like a, they'd come to your house and they'd just buy your car off you. And I was like, I don't even know if this is legit. But I was like, as long as I got the money in my account before they, before they leave, I was like, sounds, sounds like my solution for the week. Um, so, yeah, there have been like big, like big, terrible, like prolonged, very life, um, ruining at the time, kind of, um, things to go through.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  Um, and then there were the small ones every day, like, there's, you know, I, I, the other day, we had our, um, like, we did like a hotel Tala, it was kind of like a.

• 39:26Jemma Sbeg?

  I saw, it was so beautiful.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 39:28Jemma Sbeg?

  It was gorgeous.

• 39:29Speaker 02

  Thank you. It was essentially like a campaign that we did, like, what Tala would be like as a hotel and then hosted some people there. And, you know, even on the first day of that, like, we sent two of our team members early to set everything up with like all of the stock and the decorations and like the cute little touches and everything. And five out of ten suitcases got lost and ended up like floating around Europe. And like the whole reason you send people early is that they can like set things up. It's just a little bit of chaos.

• 39:59Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, so, you know, that type of stuff happens all the time. Same with, I went out to New York Fashion Week, we were doing a New York Fashion Week activation. And I was there for forty eight hours before I had to go somewhere else and I. Literally landed and my one suitcase that I had with me was lost and they were like, we can get it back to you in forty eight hours. And I was like, perfect. We've got our New York Fashion Week thing tomorrow. Um.

• 40:23Jemma Sbeg?

  So. So it should be sooner.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:26Jemma Sbeg?

  Please and thank you.

• 40:27Speaker 02

  Have we considered teleporting?

• 40:28Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, um, did they pay, did they pay for that?

• 40:31Speaker 02

  I actually don't think I ended up getting any compensation.

• 40:33Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh, this is my, this is a random hill I die on, but airline compensation, I could start a business on it though.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:39Jemma Sbeg?

  I will always get compensation from airlines.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Really?

• 40:41Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh, I.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  See, I'm good at a sternly worded email around something like that.

• 40:45Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh, no, I have beef with probably every airline, bar one. I'm not gonna go into them, bar one. And they sponsored the podcast and I, and I love, that's the only reason.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Oh, my god, really?

• 40:54Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, literally, I had any, actually, I'll tell this story, but I won't name names, but an airline who I had like the most despicable experience with, with my dad randomly, um, was like, we really wanna sponsor the podcast. And I was like, no. And the, the, my team was like, was like, you really should do, I was like, I would never.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 41:13Jemma Sbeg?

  I would never sell my soul. Cause I, yeah, anyways, um.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, also then when I flew to my next place, they literally, I was like, don't fly out to New York, keep it in London. I'll just get it when I'm back in London, cause I only need it for the next forty eight hours. And then literally as I flew off to the next place, it flew from London to New York. I was like, okay.

• 41:32Jemma Sbeg?

  I know, and it's so hard because it's like, I, I also will say, I'm like, every single person who works for an airline, I'm like, I love you.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:38Jemma Sbeg?

  I'm like, you guys do the, probably a very hard job of like, the only time people wanna talk to you is when they're really mad.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 41:45Jemma Sbeg?

  So it's always the email, but it's stuff like that where it's like the coordination is just.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  It's where it's like their policies and it's like.

• 41:49Jemma Sbeg?

  Their policies just, just fuck them over.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  We need to fix this.

• 41:52Jemma Sbeg?

  We'll move on from airline politics.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Um, but that was my favorite, favorite part of your question.

• 41:57Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, we can go on for ages. That's gonna be our part two episode. Come back for the part two.

• 42:07Jemma Sbeg?

  Growth isn't linear. There's no magic timeline or secret template. And no one understands that quite like Southern New Hampshire University. Because SNHU has online degree programs built for whatever path you are on. Tried college before? Transfer up to 90 credits. And if you're new to this, no worries. Every student gets a dedicated academic advisor. And here's the best part, there's no set class times. So school actually fits your life. Ready to get started? Visit SNHU.edu/psych. That's SNHU.edu/psych. Something that really frustrates me is when wellness brands greenwash their products to make them seem more clean

• 42:52Jemma Sbeg?

  or better for the environment, when they are actually not. When you look into it, they are kind of just like the rest of them. Nature's Sunshine, however, doesn't just talk about the planet. They do something about it. They sustainably source ingredients. They craft their supplements with 100% solar powered manufacturing. And their products are incredible. I don't drink coffee, and so Nature's Sunshine Brain Edge gives me that kick I sometimes need with potent ingredients combining yerba mate with nootropics, adaptogens, botanicals to support mental clarity and focus. And you already know how much I love their marine glow and have for years. It is the only collagen that combines skin-supporting marine collagen

• 43:34Jemma Sbeg?

  with the sun and blue light protection of luton to make your skin feel and look glowy and protected. Plus, I just really like that they have nature at the core of everything that they do. Try Nature's Sunshine and experience the difference with supplements that are better for you and the planet. Go to naturessunshine.com today and use the code PSYCH for 20% off your first order plus free shipping. That's code PSYCH for 20% off your first order at naturessunshine.com.

• 44:06Jemma Sbeg?

  I've been approaching my health really differently this year. I used to be really focused on maximizing and doing more. And now I'm just realising that if I listen to what my body needs, I perform way better. And that's why I am obsessed with my Whoop. Truly, you guys, you know I'm such a data and information driven person. And I love opening my Whoop app and seeing how my sleep, my stress, my strain is correlating with my mood, with my running performance, with how I'm just feeling day to day. I'm not an elite athlete by any means, but I do really benefit. And I also just really enjoy knowing more about my body. And Whoop also gives me these actionable, personalised insights that have made me more intentional

• 44:51Jemma Sbeg?

  and meant that I make smarter decisions day to day about what I need, rather than just putting my foot on the gas and just going, going, going, going. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join.whoop.com/psychology for your free month of Whoop. Who out here shops at CVS? Most of you, right? Well, if you're not signed up for extra care, you need to fix that. Because when you are, you get extra big deals. These are limited time offers you can find in store or in the app. And it's where being an extra care member pays off. So sign up now. If you're already shopping there, it's a no brainer. If you're not, well, you need to do something about that as well. Signing up couldn't be easier.

• 45:34Jemma Sbeg?

  And once you've joined, the exclusive member discounts instantly appear. You don't have to do anything, no coupons. You'll just enjoy savings on the items you buy most. We're talking about savings on essentials like household items, snacks, health, personal care products, plus travel and seasonal stuff too. All right there in store, couldn't be easier. Deals refresh every two weeks, so there's always something new, but they don't last long. Extra big deals with extra care. Instant savings made simple. Head to your local CVS or open the CVS app. Look for extra big deals and start saving today. This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over fourteen years obsessing

• 46:18Jemma Sbeg?

  over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favourite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 46:50Jemma Sbeg?

  You have such a natural talent for business. Have you ever been like, I'm done with that? And what do you think you'd do instead?

• 46:57Speaker 02

  Oh, so I'd say there have definitely been times where I've considered walking away. I'd not recently and not since I've kind of got my life balance a little bit more on track and therefore like moved away from burnout and um, you know, there are still little bits and and times where I'm like, for fuck's sake, but I do genuinely, absolutely love what I do and I feel very privileged to be able to do what I do. And also I've built my career. I've like kind of reverse engineered my career towards exactly what I want it to be. Like I kind of fell into being an influencer at one point and then was like, this is, I do not like, again, massive privilege, but it's like, I do not like the day to day of this. I do not like needing to be liked in order to, for my career

• 47:39Speaker 02

  to be like doing well. I do not like needing to share my personal life for my career to be doing well, all of these things. And so literally built myself an office job in the businesses. And like, so I do think that I've, like, my job is made for me, like, it's very tailored to me, um, which I feel very lucky for, for, about?

• 47:59Jemma Sbeg?

  Two.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  All of.

• 48:02Jemma Sbeg?

  There is luck involved.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  There, there be luck.

• 48:06Jemma Sbeg?

  Baby, be lucky. Baby love you.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  Yes, sometimes, yes. Um, but I think that the, you know, it absolutely takes it to its toll. And I think that there have, you know, there have honestly been so many times where I'm like, what, why have I, like, why? Why did I need to make it so hard for myself? Um, just because like, there's not really a reason to take it this far. Like, why four businesses? Why not one business?

• 48:30Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  You know, why, like, why did you need to do this? But I think realistically, as I've said, it's all built for me. And it's all been built a- around me. Like, I've built it that way. Um, and I feel very fortunate to, like, I think one of the biggest privileges in life is being

• 48:48Speaker 02

  able to do work that you love and that you genuinely love because like, everyone needs to work or most people need to work to be able to actually enjoy it and feel like you are day to day able to use your brain and kind of engage in the way you want to and be able to make money from it. Like, I feel like that's um, very, very lucky.

• 49:10Jemma Sbeg?

  Such a good reminder as well.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so, yes and no. You'll probably find me some days where I'm like, yeah, absolutely. I need to get out of here.

• 49:19Jemma Sbeg?

  To the choir I go.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 49:21Jemma Sbeg?

  Broadway I'm coming.

• 49:24Jemma Sbeg?

  Um, I like something that you mentioned before, which is, you know, you've, you've spent your entire adult life online.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 49:30Jemma Sbeg?

  At this point, how do you keep parts of you just for you? You've obviously made a conscious decision about that in many ways.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. So as I kind of alluded to then, I made a decision at one point to basically decide I was like, I'm not going to be an influencer, which you could absolutely still put me in that box now. Um.

• 49:48Jemma Sbeg?

  I probably wouldn't though, to be honest.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  Thank you. I don't know. I think that like, the, as a tangent, like the negative, the negative, the negative, um, kind of connotations of. Influencer is very much directly correlated to the fact that it is one of the only industries where women outperform.

• 50:06Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  And make more money than men.

• 50:08Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, I don't think influencer is a is a bad term, but if it's not what your job title is.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, of course, but as in like, I think that like, I try and get comfortable with the fact that like, uh, te- technically it is what I'm doing and, you know, certain areas and like, probably the only reason we have these negative connotations around it is because women outperform in that area and therefore naturally.

• 50:28Jemma Sbeg?

  It's easy.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  It, yeah, it must be so easy and it must be vapid and it must be all of these different things. Anyway, um, I kind of decided that that wasn't for me in that I didn't enjoy the day to day, as I said, so I built myself. You know, I deleted all my videos off YouTube over overnight, um, and kind of that was where my main earnings were. I stopped really posting properly online for like two, three years. Um, and concentrated on building businesses. I was like, I wanna build these into like what can actually sustain me and the team as a job. Um, so doubled down on that and I think that, you know, that has enabled me to be in the fortunate position where

• 51:10Speaker 02

  I don't need to share anything that I don't want to share, um, in order to make income. And so I feel like I'm in the nice position now where I can share what I'd like to share and what I find would be helpful to share. And feel happy doing so. And I feel much more happy doing so, knowing that there is not no obligation.

• 51:32Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Um, and so I think that actually has. I don't know, probably in a weird way recently, like some people over the past few years have been like, oh, I think you're sharing more. And I was like, yeah, no, I probably am because I don't feel like backed against a wall in a way I'm like, oh, God, I've got to give you this vulnerability so that you actually like me, like it's an exchange.

• 51:51Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Um, and I do, I don't want that, like, I don't want to need to give you all of the five bad things that are happening in my life for you to give me basic human respect.

• 51:59Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Um, and so I think that I'm, I guess, in a happy place around that now.

• 52:06Jemma Sbeg?

  It's organic. With that in mind, there has been things that you have shared online that are very, very personal and it's obviously come from an, from an organic place for you to share it, um, including a miscard you had last year. Did you think about not sharing?

• 52:20Speaker 02

  During that? Yeah, absolutely. And I didn't share it for a good while, after it happened, not a good while, like a few months. Um. Wow. And I think that I I was driven by a few reasons for sharing it. I think that like, one part of it was like, definitely, and I I wouldn't stand by this as a good reason for sharing, but I I definitely like, it was meant to be a really intense work month and I still worked a lot, but I think that like I just hadn't been myself and hadn't like, done things to the best of my ability that month. Um. Um, and so I kind of felt like I was like, oh, by the way, guys, this is why I've been so shit. Yeah. Um, but that wasn't the main reason for sharing. The main reason was more the fact that I,

• 53:06Speaker 02

  found it so insane how there was so much taboo around it and how it was automatically like you're pregnant, yay, oh, you miscarried, oh, let's not talk about that. Like, that is, the blame is on the woman, the kind of, I I don't know, the onus for everything was on the woman, the taboo was on them. They mostly can't tell their workplace because there's still, loads of associations around it and they don't know if they're actually gonna get the support and if that's just gonna make them feel even shitter and, you know, whether it's something that they even want to say because then their employer knows they're trying for a baby, like all of these different things. And I kind of just wanted to talk about it because it was actually so fucking hard to go through that I just was like,

• 53:47Speaker 02

  I can't believe that this in any way is made to be, like, made out to be, not necessarily like my fault, but kind of like,

• 54:01Speaker 02

  we shouldn't talk about it because it might embarrass other people or it might make people feel awkward. And I even had that from like some people quite close to me when I was like, never even like saying the word or acknowledging the thing or even like asking how I was, like it was very. Yeah.

• 54:16Jemma Sbeg?

  Um.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  You know, and I just thought, God, that's crazy. Like, people for years and years, decades, haven't said anything about it ever. Um, because it's just a taboo subject. And I just thought, I don't like taboo subjects that are taboo and create shame for the woman, um, when there's no reason for it.

• 54:36Jemma Sbeg?

  And it's like this uh, final frontier of grief almost, that we are yet to really have any good language for speaking about. Like, we don't have great language for talking about grief in other, in other areas, or mental health in other areas or anything, but for this one, it does feel like, really, you don't see anybody talk about it.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:55Jemma Sbeg?

  And that must have been really scary for you to step into and be like, if I don't see anybody talking about it, how are people going to react?

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that I do believe that when you have a platform, you do actually have some sort of responsibility to, well, you have more propensity to make the world a place that you, the place that you would want it to be. So you have a sort of responsibility to, okay. Well, no, you don't need to share things that you don't want to share like that. I don't think is owed to the general public, but I do think that if you can do something to make the world a, a place that's more reflective of the place that you'd want it to be, then like, why not?

• 55:34Jemma Sbeg?

  Um.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Um, and so, yeah, it was a decision at the time because I wanted to, I, I wanted it to be something where you can say that without, like, I felt like I couldn't even say it without, like, ruining someone else's day.

• 55:48Jemma Sbeg?

  Um.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  And I was just like, I, I get that, but at the same time, like, if I need to disclose this to you for some reason, I need to not go into overdrive of like, oh, I'm so sorry, but it's also fine. It's fine. You know, like, you don't get, you know, it's, it's okay. And it's like, that's really difficult.

• 56:03Jemma Sbeg?

  And every time you swallow it, it's like, I'm so worried about burdening this person one time. And it's like, and I burden myself every day.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:09Jemma Sbeg?

  Every single day. Were you worried about a particular kind of reaction? Was there one that scared you the most that people might have?

• 56:15Speaker 02

  I think I, because it was so fresh in terms of like emotions, and I think, you know, it will be for a long time. I think I was, I'm always worried about like, the internet having like, fuel with which to, you know, throw at you when is desired. So like, for example, I did a post a few weeks later that was like, talking about, um, the risk of reform coming into power in the UK and the different, um, impacts that would have on. Essentially, society in like various different ways. Um, and one of those, someone commented on that being like, uh, you should be concentrating more on keeping your babies alive.

• 56:54Speaker 02

  Then, um, the talking about this, which I'm laughing about, obviously it's an abhorrent comment, but it's also so outrageous that I was literally like, I literally saw it while having breakfast with my husband and I literally like choked and I was like, oh my god, you're not gonna believe this. And I was just like, that, to be fair, as you can tell, like, that type of thing doesn't really affect me because you've got to be so fucked up. To, for that to actually make it anywhere out of your keyboard, like for you to be pressing it.

• 57:22Jemma Sbeg?

  Brain cells.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Brain, like unless that's a violent intrusive thought that you literally cannot keep under control, like. The fact that you've now put that onto paper and like got that out is just, I. I have to feel so sorry for you because you must be so miserable. And I know people say that it's like, they must be miserable, they must be miserable. It's like. I don't believe that all online commentary must be from people who are miserable, but it's literally like, wow. Like, wow, you must be so hurt inside about, like, I don't know who didn't listen to you when, but like, wow.

• 57:54Jemma Sbeg?

  I almost see that as like sociop- like sociopathy.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  No, yeah, I genuinely want this person, I wanna put them in a little cage and we'll just, what's wrong with you? Yeah, literally.

• 58:05Jemma Sbeg?

  Let's have a look around, like, that's, that's a, I actually, very few things leave me speechless.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  Oh, that was, I was literally like.

• 58:12Jemma Sbeg?

  What was your husband's reaction? Cause yours was like, oh my god, was he just like?

• 58:16Speaker 02

  He was quite angry about it. He was like, how, I think, I mean, he'd obviously gone through it as well. I think he'd, you know, seen. Me going through that and then was like, fucking hell, like that is terrible. But I thought it was so bad that I actually found it hilarious, like, as in, like, I send it to some of my friends and I was like, oh. My god, and my friends are sending me paragraphs back, like, this person is like blah blah blah. And I was like, guys, I'm laughing. As in, like, I'm literally laughing, cause you can't go that.

• 58:43Jemma Sbeg?

  It's a horseshoe.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  Like, come on, like, so deranged, that is just like, you actually, like. You, you have more problems than I have if you are sending that message.

• 58:53Jemma Sbeg?

  Anonymous account?

• 58:54Speaker 02

  Probably, yeah.

• 58:55Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, probably like Psalms thirteen in the bio.

• 58:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, literally.

• 58:59Jemma Sbeg?

  Love thy neighbour. Um, sorry, not to laugh at the end of, what was a heavy conversation?

• 59:07Jemma Sbeg?

  Interesting song voice. Great.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  Shit, just done it again.

• 59:11Jemma Sbeg?

  Done it again.

• 59:13Speaker 02

  It's the thing you're gonna be thinking about for a long time.

• 59:15Jemma Sbeg?

  I know, I'm gonna go home and be like, dang it. Sorry, not to, not to make you feel, I just think that comment's crazy.

• 59:26Jemma Sbeg?

  And you're expecting again now, and I get so many questions about becoming a mother in your twenties. I haven't had that experience yet. And I don't actually get to talk to many people who had, so what is surprising you most about that whole chapter in your life from finding out you were pregnant for the first time to now carrying your second child?

• 59:43Speaker 02

  I think what's been surprising me most generally is like how outrageous and varied and intense all the different symptoms of pregnancy are, that are a hundred percent kept under wraps for a reason. And I would have a hundred percent still decided that I wanted a baby and that I wanted to be pregnant. But at the same time, like, the fine print is not clear. And I think we, like, again, it's like, our sex education for women is so terrible. Sorry, I'm not crying, it's acid reflux.

• 1:00:13Jemma Sbeg?

  I want more sex. The rollercoaster. I want more sex.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Like, the sex education for women, and actually probably more for girls, is like so, so terrible and so fixated on like, don't have sex, don't get pregnant. Like, okay, well, what about when we're talking about, like, if you choose to get pregnant, or you find yourself in a situation where you are pregnant, like, what's actually happening? What are all the different symptoms? Like, there are some fucked symptoms that are absolutely kept from you. Like, what the, I think it's the average woman ends up with 3.1 decayed teeth after pregnancy. Cause the baby just takes all the nutrients from you.

• 1:00:50Jemma Sbeg?

  All your calcium, everything.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Like, everything from you. There's like all sorts, like, your, your abs split in half, sometimes they'll have to be surgically put back together. But like, all of this, I honestly think I'm anti PR for pregnancy, and I don't mean to be that way. Cause I do think that like, if you would like to be pregnant, then hopefully you're able to get pregnant. I also do just think that it is presented to women as A, a necessity, B, a kind of.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  Well, this is just the way it is. And mark my words, if the symptoms were on the other gendered foot, there would be better research, there would be better medication, there would be better management, all of these different things, there would probably be paid pregnancy leave, like all of these different things. I just think it's not been made clear. And I think that anyone who wants to have a child would still decide to do so. It's just that there is not a lot of well-spread educational information. So I'd say that's the biggest shock in case it's not clear by my general demeanor.

• 1:01:56Jemma Sbeg?

  It's like people will climb the mountain, but they should know what's on the mountain first.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  They're still wanting to get to the top. Like, I still would have done it. But at the same time, like, you don't need to be lying to me about like, all the things I'm gonna go through. And of course, that is somewhat our responsibility to find out. But at the same time, like, it's a major medical event that's essentially considered just, well.

• 1:02:16Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  You're a girly pop, so.

• 1:02:18Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah, sorry, you don't have any teeth anymore. Like, the baby took them. That's crazy. My boyfriend went to the movies the other day and he came back and he was like, white-faced. He was like, do you know that women poop themselves when they give birth? And he, and I was like, yeah. He goes, seventy-five percent of them do.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Jemma Sbeg?

  And I was like, I, yeah, I know. And he was like, they need to tell more people about that. And I was like, that's why, that's what the ad was for.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  The least of the problems.

• 1:02:45Jemma Sbeg?

  I was gonna say, he was, I know, he went on a whole Google page and I was like, and this is why that's important as well. Because often the burden is on you experiencing it as a mother. Women around you, hearing those, feeling scared, never like, men, just knowing the woman's experience.

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  Well, slightly tied to that, I, I was about to say, read an article. I watched a TikTok, right? The other day. And it was very, very interesting. And it was essentially about the research gap between men and women when it comes to parenting, and why it creates default parenthood, and why it creates therefore, like, essentially, the uneven society in which we operate, where women are expected to take on a significant amount of unpaid labour in comparison to men, particularly when it comes to things like parenting, but also housework and all of this. And it was essentially just saying how like, women, because pregnancy is happening to them, will take on the burden of education around birth, around pregnancy, around parenting, around.

• 1:03:39Speaker 02

  Like baby's health, all of these different things, and then they they take on that burden. And that naturally isn't replicated in the men because pregnancy isn't happening to them. Like ideally, they would see it as such if their partner is pregnant, but it's actually not naturally the case. Um, even I'd expect in some progressive relationships. And therefore there is this research gap, which means that when by the time you have the baby, the woman spends a lot of time educating the man and maybe correcting on certain things like, oh, you're meant to support the head or you're meant to do this or like whatever it might be. Which results in the default parent becoming the mum, despite the fact that you both had a baby at the same time. And this obviously naturally then goes around in circles in terms of who does more parenting, childcare, like all of these different things.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  Um, and I think that's so interesting again, because it's like pregnancy is seen as a women's issue. And it's not advertised thoroughly at all regardless. So.

• 1:04:35Jemma Sbeg?

  So what are we gonna do about it?

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  Well, so what are we gonna do about it? Well, Grace is gonna make some TikToks. That's what we're gonna do about it. Grace is gonna make everyone hear about it. I'm, uh, I can't remember what that meme was, but it was like, um, being the op- opposite of someone who suffers in silence. Like you will be forced to, or like, um, you know, quiet interests or all of that. Like you will be forced to hear about what I'm interested in and what I'm reading about.

• 1:04:55Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  I'm afraid.

• 1:04:56Jemma Sbeg?

  I want men to make those TikToks as well. I feel like, I I just think that would be just so valuable to be like, here's what I'm learning. I know, I'm, I wanna find some.

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  And I like them. I like to repost them.

• 1:05:05Jemma Sbeg?

  Good on you. She's fighting the good fight.

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:05:13Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:07:15Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:07:56Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:08:41Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:09:19Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:09:56Jemma Sbeg?

  I have two more questions for you about motherhood and then one more question. So that's three. Three more questions. I know, thank you. Another thing on my, on my resume. Um, you're having a girl. What are you most excited to do with her?

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't know. I think like my biggest, like one of my biggest life aims, and I think this maybe surprises people because I think we do group particularly women into boxes. You're like, you're a career woman or you're like a mumsy woman or you're like this. Um, but like my biggest like aim in life is to have a close knit, loving family. Like that is just like my driving force. And I feel very excited about the opportunity of building that with my husband and building it to be exactly what we have hoped. And I have no doubt that it's gonna be very, you know, there are gonna be many things that don't go to plan.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  But at the same time, like, I just can't wait. Like, I can't wait to, for my life to get a bit smaller for a while. Like, I really, I think I've concentrated for a very long time on not making my life as big as possible, because that's not been the driving force, but like

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  reaching everything I wanna reach in life and like kind of really working so hard to get there. Um, and of course I'll continue to do so. Like, I feel very strongly about being very open about the fact that I will be going back to working full time. And I think that it's insane that anyone who would know me or see what I've done be surprised at the fact that I will have childcare or the fact that I will, you know, be working on any of these things. But I just think that like, I really can't wait for the concentration just to be a bit, little bit simpler. And like, I just know, like, all I care about generally is as much as, you know, I care about work and all of this, like, that's kind of one side.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  The main things I care about are like relationships and the people around me. And I just can't wait to build our little.

• 1:12:02Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh, little family. I actually saw this quote from Steve Carell, I think you'll love, which is, he was talking about how when he had a kid, he was like, everything in my professional life got easier. Because speaking of failures, like, I didn't care if they didn't like me or if I failed. Because I had, I had all this to go home to. Oh my god, I'm so excited for you. Um, I wanna finish the episode with this question, which is, what is one piece of advice you have for people in their twenties? That we haven't spoken about today.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  So much. There's so much I want to say. Um, can I split them up?

• 1:12:39Jemma Sbeg?

  You can do as many as you want. I feel like you are a treasure trove of. So we're gonna start part two now.

• 1:12:45Speaker 02

  Um, okay, career wise.

• 1:12:47Jemma Sbeg?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:47Speaker 02

  I think that there's a lot of focus right now on getting as far as you can in your twenties and being as big as you can, in whatever sense that might be. So, for example, if it is impressive in your industry to be freelance rather than to be within a company, there's such a rush to get there. There's such a rush to like get those accolades or establish those things that make you be taken more seriously. I honestly could not recommend enough, and I wish I'd done more of this, learning as much as you can on employer's money, like upskilling, trying new jobs, working in different types of teams, talking to as many people as possible about their jobs, like

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  your career is much longer than it's made out to be on TikTok. And that's not me kind of patronizing and saying like you, but like that is a lot of the media we're consuming and we're seeing, you know, success looks like this at thirty. Your career is gonna be a hell of a lot longer than thirty. And if you want to enjoy it and to have longevity and all of that, the more you can do to truly learn as much as possible and to put yourself in, like, what about imagining an amazing life at forty, fifty, sixty? That might not be about working all the time, but how are you gonna get there? Is it gonna be jumping ship at twenty-three when actually you don't know enough to do that?

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  No, I believe so strongly that we're, it's very glamorized online to sell a certain dream around a certain type of career. And actually, the best careers are built over time based on accumulating expertise and contacts and network overall and skills and passions. And so focus on that rather than like a big shiny title or a big move to freelance rather than employed or whatever it might be for your industry. I think that's very important career side and I think that's often missed. Then on the other side, general life, I just think like, don't let anyone make you feel like you're behind. Again, we have such a focus on like.

• 1:14:55Speaker 02

  Thirty under thirty, you know, your life ending then, like all of this. I'm so fucking excited to turn thirty. Like, there's so much I'm looking forward to that I just like, I think this twenties is like a hot pot of kind of just being thrown in there and being like, achieve as much as possible and like find out who you are and like make some friends and fall in love and get married and have a mammy and like all of these different things. And it's just like, again, life is long, hopefully. And like, you're just at the beginning of it. Like, don't let other people's need to rush make you rush. Um, cause I think as well that we have like this warped perception of time. And if you're aiming to do X, Y, Z by thirty, then, okay, you get to thirty and then what? Like, what happens then?

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  Don't give yourself that like Olympic gold medal syndrome, um, where you're working towards all these things, or you're like just staying in a relationship because you don't want to be single at thirty. And then you get to thirty. Okay, now what? You're pushing for another year and another year and another year and another year. You're only at thirty four. So like, as in like, start thinking long term, um, and start thinking about like what you actually enjoy and what you want your life to look like, rather than what you want other people to perceive it as.

• 1:16:06Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh, I love that advice.

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:16:08Jemma Sbeg?

  Especially as somebody whose career is dead at thirty. Psychology of your twenties.

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 1:16:13Jemma Sbeg?

  What are we gonna do?

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  What have you done?

• 1:16:14Jemma Sbeg?

  I know, I really screwed the pooch on that one. Thank you so much for such wonderful, wonderful advice and such wonderful candor. You're genuinely just a delightful person to talk to.

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. That's very kind. As are you.

• 1:16:25Jemma Sbeg?

  Thanks, girl. I honestly think that like when people have a certain, I'm gonna give you one more compliment. Are you ready? Yeah, yeah, then you can go. Then get out.

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:34Jemma Sbeg?

  I, I really do think that like you see somebody online and, and you're like, oh, they seem really nice. And there's always, I don't have this feeling, but like, there's always the thing of like, I wonder if they're like that in real life. And it's like, you are somebody I can say for people listening who are a fan of Grace, like a hundred percent like that, if not better in person. Like you just have such, you just exude such a brilliance. So I appreciate you coming on the Psychology of Your Twenties.

• 1:16:55Speaker 02

  So thank you for having me.

• 1:16:56Jemma Sbeg?

  You and the baby.

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  Me and the baby.

• 1:16:58Jemma Sbeg?

  The first baby on the podcast.

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  What do you have to say for yourself?

• 1:17:03Jemma Sbeg?

  Just acid reflux.

• 1:17:07Jemma Sbeg?

  Um, I'm gonna leave everything in the description where to listen to working hard, where to buy a piece of Tala's workout gear. I honestly swear by your cinched singlet tops.

• 1:17:19Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's.

• 1:17:20Jemma Sbeg?

  So amazing. I have like three colors, brown, black, blue. If you wanna buy my wardrobe.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  Shop my wardrobe.

• 1:17:27Jemma Sbeg?

  And yeah, everything else that we can find you at. As always, guys, thank you for listening. If you've made it this far, leave a little baby emoji in the Spotify comments down below to Wish Grace. Congratulations and good luck on her, on entering.

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  Impending birth.

• 1:17:40Jemma Sbeg?

  I know, I didn't wanna be like, impending birth. And as always, you can also watch episodes like this on Netflix. You can follow us on Instagram, Substack. It's all gonna be down there. But until next time, be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very, very soon.

• 1:17:58Jemma Sbeg?

  I've been approaching my health really differently this year. I used to be really focused on maximizing and doing more. And now I'm just realizing that if I listen to what my body needs, I perform way better. And that's why I am obsessed with my Whoop. Truly, you guys, you know I'm such a data and information driven person. And I love opening my Whoop app and seeing how my sleep, my stress, my strain is correlating with my mood, with my running performance, with how I'm just feeling day to day. I'm not an elite athlete by any means, but I do really benefit. And I also just really enjoy knowing more about my body. And Whoop also gives me these actionable personalized insights

• 1:18:41Jemma Sbeg?

  that have made me more intentional and meant that I make smarter decisions day to day about what I need, rather than just putting my foot on the gas and just going, going, going, going. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join dot whoop dot com slash psychology for your free month. This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over fourteen years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise,

• 1:19:26Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:19:40Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:20:13Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:20:54Jemma Sbeg?

  Try Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour today at clinique.com. Feels like moisture surge.

• 1:21:02Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.