Pod Insights Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! | Greek Mythology & the Ancient Mediterranean Spooky Special... Liv's Favourite F--ked Up Family (aka Must Not Eat Children, Part 2) About this episode Happy spooooky season! It's about time we revisit the most HORRIFYING and GORY play Liv's ever read... Seneca's Thyestes, the play whose only woman character is a goddess of vengeance. These episodes originally aired in October 2023. Tantalus' cursed grandsons are about to f**k things up. Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content! http://www.patreon.com/mythsbaby
CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.
Sources: Seneca's Thyestes, primarily the version translation by Emily Wilson with long passages quoted from the Frank Justus Miller https://www.theoi.com/Text/SenecaThyestes.html; Hyginus' Fabulae https://topostext.org/work/206.
Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions http://mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.
Learn more about Liv's next group trips https://travelbugxlivalbert.my.canva.site/ to GREECE! Application deadline is November 30 (Subject to change due to demand).
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Liv Albert? Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful, and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com grouptrip.
0:43 Speaker 01 Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to build Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
1:23 Liv Albert? On the summit of the citadel, a part of Pelops's palace faces south. Its farthest side rises to mountainous height and overlooks the city, having beneath its menace the people, insolent to their kings. Here gleams the great hall that could contain a multitude whose gilded architraves columns glorious with varied hues uphold. Behind this general hall which nations throng, the gorgeous palace stretches out over many a space. And, deep withdrawn, there lies a secret spot, containing in a deep valley an ancient grove, the kingdom's innermost retreat. Here no tree ever affords cheerful shade
2:07 Liv Albert? or is pruned by any knife, but the yew tree and the cypress and woods of gloomy ilex trees wave obscure, above which, towering high, an oak looks down and overtops the grove. From this spot, the sons of Tantalus are wont to enter on their reign, here to seek aid midst calamity and doubt. Here hang their votive gifts, resounding trumpets and broken chariots, spoils of the Mertoan sea, and wheels overcome by treacherous axle. Trees hang there, and memorials of the race's every crime. In this place is Pelops's Phrygian cap hung, here spoils of the enemy and the embroidered robe,
2:52 Liv Albert? token of triumph over barbaric foes.
3:36 Liv Albert? Oh, hi, hello there. This is Let's Talk About Myths, baby! And I am your host, Liv, here with the final episode covering the very Roman version of one of the darkest and most horrifying stories from Greek myth: the murderous and cannibalistic revenge plot, forced cannibalistic, I should say, revenge plot of Atrius, king of Mycenae. Which seems like as good a time as any to remind you of today's very specific trigger warnings, which is basically that there are going to be some kids
4:19 Liv Albert? killed and eaten, and it will be graphic. Graphic. This is Seneca writing Greek myth and spooky season, after all. It is really very horrific and absolutely disgusting. I love it, but, well, maybe you won't, so take care.
4:55 Liv Albert? This is episode 234. Children make for a very impious meal. Seneca's Thyestes, Part 3.
5:19 Liv Albert? Such things are past belief. Atreus there, the fierce and savage, reckless of soul and cruel, at sight of his brother stood as one amazed. There is no power stronger than true love. Angry strife between strangers does endure, but whom true love has bound it will bind forever. When wreath by great causes roused has burnt friendships' bonds and sounded alarms of war; when fleet squadrons with ringing bridles come; when the brandished sword gleams now here, now there, which the mad god of war, thirsting for fresh flowing blood, wields with a rain of blows;
6:02 Liv Albert? then will love stay the wheel and lead men, even against their will, to the clasped hands of peace.
6:11 Liv Albert? The chorus has fallen for Atreus's trap just as well as Thyestes has. They're convinced, you can see in this opening of their ode that I just read, that Atreus has forgiven his brother for everything, that one look at his sibling was all it took for him to see past everything that's happened before. They believe Atreus's words, that he has set his anger aside, that he has welcomed his brother home with open arms, that all is forgiven and they can be a happy family; that brother will rule with brother and the cousins will become fast friends, become like brothers themselves. Everything is right in my seni, all is well. The chorus is thrilled, relieved.
6:55 Liv Albert? They can now celebrate this return of Thyestes after so long in exile, so long with these brothers separated by their hatred. But it's all over now. Or, well, it's not, but the chorus and Thyestes sure think that it is.
7:13 Liv Albert? Alone on the stage now, with both brothers and the two boys having gone into the palace, the chorus goes on. They wonder what God was able to achieve this after such strife. They tell the audience that just before Thyestes returned, all of Mycenae was preparing for a civil war. That the citizens were preparing, that the men preparing to head to battle if they had to, even though their weapons were old and rusty from so many years of peace. They were mending the palace, the walls of the city, just preparing for the worst. And yet, now, the chorus determines there was no need for them to panic. Atreus and Thyestes will not be fighting. There will be no violence that they'd all expected. All is going to be well.
7:54 Liv Albert? There's still gonna be peace in Mycenae, only now a real and much better peace between brothers. The chorus sings of change, how nothing lasts. Not the good or the bad, everything is fleeting. And everything strong eventually becomes weak. Quote, "No one should trust too much in his good fortune. No one should give up hope of better luck. Clotho mixes good with bad and stops fortune from standing still. Each man's fate rolls around." The chorus makes it very clear. The fates, Clotho among them, don't work for anyone. Fortune can turn when you least expect it. And of course, this isn't just a song for the sake of it.
8:39 Liv Albert? It's a cue. When the chorus finishes their song, a messenger arrives on the stage. He sets the mood immediately. Calling out to the sky, asking what possible wind could come and just sweep him away, encase him in clouds to, quote, "tear my eyes away from such abomination. This house would make blush even Pelops and Tantalus." It's happened, then. We know it, the audience would know it, but it's the chorus who's yet to understand exactly what has happened in the house of Atreus to their royal family.
9:22 Liv Albert? And frankly, even we and the audience could never have imagined how Seneca will have made it happen.
9:31 Liv Albert? The messenger is not alright. He, he's messy. He's unsure of where he is. He's shaken up by what he knows. He asks the chorus where he is. Though surely he knows? What he wants to know is how something like this could happen in a place like Mycenae. Maybe somehow he's ended up somewhere else. In some barbarian land of the east where something like this could even happen. That's right, they've gotta throw in just a hint of xenophobia for good measure, but no. Messenger, this is very much still Mycenae. This is a very Greek thing to do. The chorus tries to drag the news out of him.
10:13 Liv Albert? He's talking in riddles, seeking any means of just not being there. Not holding on to this news.
10:24 Liv Albert? But finally he relents and he tells them what he knows.
10:29 Liv Albert? The speech I read before the episode began. That's how the messenger opens his speech to the chorus. He tells them about this secret space attached to the palace. It's an ancient grove hidden away. So hidden that it isn't reached by the palace servants. No one touches the trees there. They grow wild. It's there that the line of Tantalus takes up their reign over the city. It's there that they go for guidance when things look bad. The grove holds mementos of the past. The trumpet that started the race between Pelops and Onomeus hangs from a tree. So does the latter's broken chariot. The cause of his death and the reason Pelops was able to marry his wife Hippodamia.
11:12 Liv Albert? How they could go on to have their two sons, Atrius and Thyestes. The tree holds the whole family history. It even holds the remnants of Pelops's eastern origins. The hat or headdress that he wore before he came to Greece and reigned over Mycenae. There, in the grove, there is also a dark spring. Quote, "A black and stagnant pool, most like the ugly water of terrible Styx, by which the gods swear faith."
12:01 Liv Albert? A dismal spring starts forth beneath the shadow and a sluggish black pool creeps along. Such are the ugly waters of dread sticks on which the gods take oath. It's said that from this place in the dark night the gods of death make moan. With clanking chains the grove resounds and the ghosts howl mournfully. Whatever is dreadful but to hear of there is seen. Throngs of the long since dead come forth from their ancient tombs and walk abroad. And creatures more monstrous than men have known spring from the place.
12:42 Liv Albert? Nay more, through all the wood flames go flickering and the lofty beams glow without the help of fire. Often the grove re-echoes with three-throated bangs. Often, the houses affrighted with huge ghostly shapes. Nor is terror allayed by day, the grove is night unto itself. And the horror of the underworld reigns even at midday. From this spot sure responses are given to those who seek oracles. With thundering noise the fates are uttered from the shrine and the cavern roars when the god sends forth his voice.
13:24 Liv Albert? The messenger goes on in his description of this place. It is both sacred, vital to the kingdom of Mycenae and where the kings go to feel connected to their land. And it is dark and dreary and ominous and frankly just screams for horrific things to happen in it. He tells the chorus that rumors say that sounds are heard from the grove, the groans of spirits at night. Quote, "All things that make one shudder even to hear are made visible."
13:56 Liv Albert? He says that in the grove tombs burst open and from them the living dead escape. Flames sparkle though nothing burns, phantoms curse the space, the light of day doesn't even reach this grove, it's as though it is perpetually night. This is where Atreus brought Thyestes's two children, the messenger goes on to tell the chorus. Quote, "The altars are adorned, how can I say this? The little princes have their hands tied back, he binds their poor little heads with a purple band."
14:37 Liv Albert? The messenger goes on to explain how Atreus did it, not just the act itself, but what it meant. This wasn't just a killing, it wasn't just murder, it was a sacrifice. Atreus turned it into a ritualistic killing. He set it up as though they weren't children that he was killing, but some beast meant for slaughter. Incense burned, wine was poured in libation, quote, "All due ritual was observed in case such a horrible crime can be done properly."
15:20 Liv Albert? The chorus asks the messenger just, "Who was holding the knife?" I can't help but quote a longer passage here, so this is the Miller translation. "He is priest himself, he with baleful prayer chants the death song with boisterous utterance. He stands by the altar, he handles those doomed to death, sets them in order and lays hand upon the knife. Himself attends to all, no part of the sacred rite is left undone. The grove begins to tremble, the whole palace sways from the quaking earth, uncertain where to fling its weight and seems to waver.
16:04 Liv Albert? From the left quarter of the sky rushes a star, dragging a murky trail. The wine poured upon the fire changes from wine and flows as blood. From the king's head falls the crown twice, and again the ivory statues in the temples weep." These portents moved all but Atrius alone, true to his purpose, stands and even scares the threatening gods. Even the grove doesn't want Atrius to do what he is going to do. Even nature and the gods are recoiling at what this man is planning.
16:49 Liv Albert? All of these details that the messenger provides are meant to emphasize in the strongest possible terms. Just what a crime this is. It is beyond the pale. It's unimaginable. It is quite literally the worst thing a person could do. Everyone knows it and yet Atrius just keeps going. Even his crown, the symbol of his rulership over Mycenae, doesn't stay on his head as he does this. Even it is revolting from his touch. The messenger continues.
17:33 Liv Albert? He tells the chorus that in that moment, Atrius stood, looking at the boys. He stared at them, flitting between the two. Quote from the Wilson again, "He wonders which to slaughter first and which to butcher second. It makes no difference, but he ponders and enjoys order in brutality." When the chorus asked, the messenger told them it was Tantalus Junior that he killed first. And this is Seneca. So the chorus then asks the messenger to explain how the boy looked when he was murdered by his uncle. "He stood strong," he tells them.
18:15 Liv Albert? "He didn't waste words trying to plead for his life before Atrius plunged his sword into the boy's body. It wasn't instantaneous, but eventually the boy's body collapsed back onto Atrius and then he did the same to place the knees, dragging him to the altar and sacrificing him like an animal, cutting off his head and letting it fall to the ground."
18:41 Liv Albert? But he wasn't done. Atreus was mad with rage, completely overcome and lost in his own fury. Quote, "Holding out the sword drenched in the two boys' blood, careless where his fury leads him cruelly, he drives the blade into the chest of the child, right through." And the blood that poured from the boys put out the fires that surrounded them. And when the chorus screams out in horror, calling the act one of savagery, the messenger asks them, "Did you think that would be it? If that was the case, Atreus would be almost divine."
19:25 Liv Albert? "No," the messenger tells the chorus, "that was just the first step in Atreus's crimes."
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22:09 Speaker 01 Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
22:56 Liv Albert? Oh, crime incredible to any age which coming generations will deny! Torn from the still-living breasts the vitals quiver, The lungs still breathe and the fluttering heart still beats. But he handles the organs and inquires the fates, And notes the markings of the still-warm entrails. When he has satisfied himself with the victims, He is now free to prepare his brother's banquet. With his own hands he cuts the body into parts, Severes the broad shoulders at the trunk, And cuts through the arms, Heartlessly strips off the flesh and severs the bones. The heads only he saves,
23:41 Liv Albert? And the hands that have been given to him in pledge of faith. Some of the flesh is fixed on spits, And set before slow fires hangs dripping; Other parts boiling waters tosses in heated kettles. The fire overleaps the feast that is set before it, And twice and again thrown back upon the shuddering hearth And forced to tarry there, burns grudgingly. The liver sputters on the spits, Nor could I well say whether the bodies or the flames made louder groans. The fire dies down in pitchy smoke,
24:23 Liv Albert? And the smoke itself a gloomy and heavy smudge, Does not rise straight up and lift itself in air Upon the household gods themselves; In disfiguring cloud it settles.
24:39 Liv Albert? Did I need to read you all that incredibly graphic scene? One that I think I could convincingly argue is the most horrific scene of all ancient tragedy? No, I did not need to do that, but gods did I want to. This play is so fucked up. Should I feel badly over how much I love it? Because I don't. When the chorus asks the messenger what it was that Atreus did next? Did he dare refuse burial to the corpses? Because that is the worst thing that they can think of. Refusing burial. "No," the messenger says, "I wish he'd left them on the earth to rot. That would be a mercy." And he goes on detailing everything that Atreus did to the children in the speech that I just read.
25:26 Liv Albert? And now that's not even the full speech. I just couldn't even justify quoting anymore. But he does go on. He calls to the sun itself, saying it's set too late to stop what was going to happen. Quote, "The father rips apart his sons, putting into his murderous mouth his own dear flesh and blood. His hair is wet and shiny with perfume, his body heavy with wine. His mouth is overstuffed, his jaws can hardly hold new morsels."
26:00 Liv Albert? "Oh, Thyestes," the messenger goes on, "you are lucky to be ignorant of what you've just done." "It's too bad that the day even had to begin at all. If only the sun could take it back, hide all of the horrific crimes under this cover of darkness." Quote, "But we must see this evil. All is now revealed."
26:26 Liv Albert? With all of this news now forced on them? All of the horror of Atreus's vengeance revealed? The chorus sings. They sing of darkness, literal and metaphorical. They sing of the darkness that has descended on the kingdom of Mycenae. It is as though day has turned to night. And what it takes for the gods to cause such a thing? Has the chariot gone off its track? How does that happen? Quote, "Is hell's dungeon opened to reveal the conquered giants in a new attempt at war?"
27:01 Liv Albert? They go on, they ask if the punished Titius has healed his wounds and his rage has been restored. They ask if Typhon has freed himself, if he is stretching all of his limbs into the air. Have those who were vanquished on the Phlegrian fields, where the gods fought those giants, have they returned and forced the mountains from their prison gates? Does this mark an end to dawn and dusk? They say that the sun, as he was setting into the west, has been surprised by the dawn. Everything is wrong, the world is off its kilter. The crimes that have just been committed are so horrible that nothing can remain as it was. The earth might as well have stopped spinning.
27:46 Liv Albert? It is not something one worries lightly, that the gods will or already have abandoned humanity entirely because of what Atreus has done. The chorus of Mycenaeans fear that this might mean the end of everything, that the world itself will collapse into chaos, the sea might swallow the earth, that the sun will never shine again, the moon will never shine in the night-day, "The mass of gods will be heaped away into a single chasm." They wonder if the constellations of the zodiac and beyond will change their shape, if they will be lost entirely. "We were born for a cruel lot, whether we, poor things, have lost the sun or forced
28:31 Liv Albert? him into exile." And then, Atreus returns to the stage, and gods, is he proud of himself.
29:00 Liv Albert? "As a peer of the stars I move, and towering over all touch with proud head the lofty heavens, now the glory of the..." Realm I hold, now my father's throne. I release the gods, for the utmost of my prayers have I attained. It's well, it's more than well, and now it's enough even for me. But why enough? No, I will go forward. Even though the father is full fed with his dead sons, that shape might not hold me back. Day has departed on while heaven is tenantless. Oh, that I might stay, the fleeing deities might force and draw them here, that they might all see the avenging feast.
29:46 Liv Albert? But it's enough if the father sees, even though daylight refuses me aid. I'll dispel the darkness from you beneath which your woes are lurking. Too long you lied at feast with carefree and cheerful countenance. Now enough time has been given to tables, enough to wine for such monstrous ills. Their needs Thyestes sober. Even Atreus considers that the gods have fled the heavens because of what he's done, but he's not worried about it like the chorus is. Instead, he wishes that he could have held them back and forced them to watch this feast of Thyestes. But it's okay, he thinks, as long as Thyestes is there, he'll be satisfied.
30:32 Liv Albert? And of course, Thyestes is there. Atreus is speaking now after they have feasted together. Thyestes's belly is full. He is satiated and full of wine, among other things. Now it's time for the party to start. Atreus directs his slaves to open the palace to reveal Thyestes at the banquet table, where he's a little out of it, actually. He's so full of food and wine, so overcome by being home after so long. Atreus speaks to his slaves, quote, "How sweet to watch him looking at his children's heads. How sweet to see his altered face, to hear him as his first grief gushes out."
31:17 Liv Albert? Atreus is just, he is so excited for this reveal. So excited for the show and tell that he's about to put Thyestes through. He's so full of joy watching his brother. He talks about him being so full that he lets out a belch, that he's actually quite drunk, almost sloppy drunk, from the wine. Wine that, oh look, he says Thyestes is having another sip of wine. Wonderful. Quote, "The vintage wine camouflages the blood. May this drink right here, right now, round off his meal. A cocktail of his children's blood."
31:59 Liv Albert? Okay. Finally Thyestes speaks. And he's relieved. Quote, "Away with grief, away with fear, away with that companion of my exile."
32:16 Liv Albert? He's just happy to be home. He goes on, quote, "The sense of loss is worse than suffering." Good for me. Phew, Seneca, you are really twisting that knife, aren't you?
32:30 Liv Albert? Thyestes continues speaking. He, he's talking about how he really should be happy because everything that's happened was, was all that he's wanted. He's home. He, he's been welcomed. He should be so relieved. So why is he feeling so off? He starts talking about how he's, he's having, having trouble showing any sort of happiness? How he can't seem to, to revel in the joy that, that he obviously should feel? Why is, why is he in pain for no reason? Why is he crying for no reason? He talks about how he has that, he has an inexplicable desire to tear at his royal clothes, to destroy them, to, to scream and groan.
33:13 Liv Albert? Quote, "The mind gives indications of a grief to come. Prophet of its future pain."
33:22 Liv Albert? Seneca does, he knows what he's doing. While Thyestes is, on the surface, entirely ignorant of what's happened to his children, he's having like bodily reactions that tell him that something is horrifically wrong, even if he doesn't know what it is, yet. He's fighting with these feelings though, like he doesn't understand them, he's just sad and terrified for no reason? Quote, "There is no cause, is it grief or fear, or does great pleasure make me cry?"
33:58 Liv Albert? Atreus, though, isn't revealing himself yet. He wants Thyestes to be even deeper into his celebrations. He calls to his brother that they, they need to celebrate such a great day. Quote, "Today my throne is solid and we are bound in solid trust, sure peace."
34:20 Liv Albert? To which Thyestes notes that, "He's full of food, full of wine, and quote, 'The only thing that could increase my pleasure is if my boys could join me in my joy.'"
34:34 Liv Albert? "Oh, your boys are here now, don't you worry," Atreus tells Thyestes. Quote, "They are here and always will be, no part of your children can ever be taken from you."
34:48 Liv Albert? Then Atreus tells Thyestes that he will, he will bring him the faces of his sons, that, that, you know, that he longs to see. "Just now, they're, they're with my own sons, they're enjoying the feast, but I'll bring them in." Here, he adds, quote, "Have a drink, this is a family cup." That Thyestes moves to take a drink from the cup, with the wine that's not just wine, raising the glass in honor of his brother. But something's wrong? His hands won't seem to hold the cup to his mouth. When he tries to take a drink, the, the wine pours out and spills and he, he doesn't get a drop. "How frustrating," he says. "Why is he having so much trouble with, with what should be such an easy thing?"
35:34 Liv Albert? And these are Thyestes's next words, from the Miller translation. "The lifted wine recoils from my very lips, around my gaping jaws, cheating my mouth. It flows, and the very table leaps up from the trembling floor. The lights burn dim, no, the very heavens grow heavy, stand in amazement between day and night, deserted. What next? Now more, still more, the vault of the shattered sky is tottering. A thicker gloom with dense shades is gathering, and night has hidden away in a blacker night. Every star is in full flight.
36:16 Liv Albert? Whatever it is, I beg it may spare my brother and my sons, and may the storm break with all its force on this vile head. Give back now my sons to me!"
36:31 Liv Albert? So Atreus does. He goes inside, and he returns with a covered platter, while Thyestes waits, his stomach rumbling and churning, his body rejecting the food and wine that he has just gorged himself on. And when Atreus has returned with that platter, he removes the cover, revealing the severed heads of Thyestes's two children, and tells his brother, quote, "Get ready to hug your children, they are here already, do you not recognize them?"
37:24 Liv Albert? "I recognize my brother. Can you endure, oh earth, to bear a crime so monstrous? Why does it not burst asunder and plunge you down to the infernal, stygian shades, and by a huge opening to void chaos? Snatch this kingdom with its King away, why does it not raise this whole palace to the very ground and overturn Mycenae? We should both of us long since have been with Tantalus. Rend asunder your prison bars on every side, and if there is any place beneath Tartarus and our grandsires there with huge abyss, let down your chasm and hide us buried beneath all Acheron.
38:09 Liv Albert? Let guilty souls wander above our heads, and let fiery flagathon with glowing flood downpouring all his sands, flow tempestuous above our place of exile, but the earth lies all unmoved, an insensate mass, the gods have fled away.
38:30 Liv Albert? Needless to say, yes, Thyestes recognizes his sons as his brother holds their severed heads before him. Oh, aren't you happy? Atreus taunts his brother. You wanted your children, here they are, and now why don't you give them a kiss and a hug?
38:52 Liv Albert? Thyestes, I mean gods, I think he's just in shock, or his body has already prepared him to face this because he only wants his brother to let him bury his sons' bodies. He, he knows there's nothing left to be done for them now, but it's too late to save them, but he can give them peace. He can bury their bodies if Atreus will allow that after what he's done.
39:18 Liv Albert? But all that Atreus did is now revealed because he tells Thyestes, quote, "You have all that remains of your children, and even what does not."
39:31 Liv Albert? What? Thyestes asks. Are there bodies left somewhere to be eaten by wild animals? To which Atreus just says, quote, "You are the one who feasted on your sons."
39:47 Liv Albert? Ugh, Thyestes groans. "It was this that made the gods turn away from us. It was this that gave us night when it should be day. How is it even possible to mourn them now? Quote, "These are the parts that even their greedy father did not have room for? Inside my belly they heave, the horror struggles to escape, there is no exit."
40:15 Liv Albert? Thyestes makes a move now, to take Atreus' sword. He talks about thrusting it into his own chest so that he can join his sons, but he can't. The sword won't do it. He wants to tear at himself, to beat at himself, but he can't! Because that would be unkind to his sons' bodies, which are now fused with his own. Quote, "Look, my children and I weigh down one another. The crime at least is balanced."
40:47 Liv Albert? But no, Atreus does not think that even this was enough to repay Thyestes for his crimes. Quote, "Even this is too little for me, I should have poured hot blood into your mouth directly from their wounds, to make you drink them alive."
41:07 Liv Albert? He talks about how he was too impatient in his rage to do such a thing, even though he wished he had. Now he rushed himself to the slaughter of the sacrifice Thyestes' children. He tells Thyestes how he dismembered them, just how he cut them up into little pieces, quote, "Which I plunged into the boiling pots and had them simmered on a gentle heat."
41:31 Liv Albert? He tells Thyestes that he cut the muscles off of their arms and legs and skewered them on spits. But, he says, "My vengeance was a failure. It would have been so much better had Thyestes done it all himself." Quote, "The wicked father munched up his sons, but did not know it, nor did they."
41:56 Liv Albert? Thyestes' reply to his brother, "To this horrific news and even more horrific sight," is his final speech in the play, and it needs to be read. So here's the Miller translation. "Here, oh you seas, by shifting shores imprisoned, and you too, hear this crime, wherever you have fled, you gods, here lords of the underworld, here lands and night, heavy with black Tartarian fogs, give ear to my cries. To you am I abandoned; only you have looked on my woe; you've also been forsaken by the stars. No wicked pleas will
42:36 Liv Albert? I make, not for myself implore, and what now can I ask on my own behalf? For you shall my prayers be offered, oh you exalted ruler of the sky, who sits in majesty upon the throne of heaven, and wrap the whole universe in awful clouds, set the winds warring on every hand, and from every quarter of the sky let the loud thunders roll, not with what hand you seek houses and undeserving homes, using your lesser bolts, but with the hand by which the threefold mass of mountains fell, and the giants who stood level with the mountains, these arms, let loose and hurl your fires. Make compensation
43:21 Liv Albert? for the banished day, brandish your flames and the light that was snatched from heaven with your lightning's flash supply; let the cause, lest you hesitate too long, of each one of us be evil. If not, let mine be evil, aim yours at me, through this heart send your three-forked flaming bolt. If I, their father, could give my sons a burial and commit them to funeral flames, I must be myself be burned. But if nothing moves the gods, and no divinity hurls darts against the impious, may night stay on forever and cover with endless darkness, boundless crimes. No protest do I make, oh son, if you stay where you are."
44:09 Liv Albert? "Oh, there it is," Atrius says. "There's my real prize." "This would have been a waste if you weren't in pain like you are now."
44:20 Liv Albert? Atrius even seems to think that this confirms the paternity of his own sons, that this restores his marriage. And when Thyestes asks what his sons could possibly have done to deserve such a fate, he just says, "Well, they were your sons." Atrius says, "Well, I'm convinced that he's somehow possessed by this fury, because he seems to just devolve into full-blown delusion." He tells Thyestes that he's not hurt about losing his sons, he's hurt because Atrius got to his plan first. He claims that Thyestes would have, and even planned, to do the same thing to him.
45:04 Liv Albert? Quote, "You had the plan to lay out the same menu for your credulous brother, to make their mother help attack the children and kill them the same way. Only this stopped you. You thought they were yours." Yes, Atrius believes that Thyestes would have done exactly the same thing. The only reason that he didn't already murder and carve up Agamemnon and Menelaus with the help of their mother was because Thyestes thought that they were his sons and not Atrius's.
45:38 Liv Albert? Thyestes is not about to argue with this man. He's too far gone. Both of them are. Instead, he just says that he will leave his brother to the punishment of the gods. They will take their revenge. The Furies will come for him, surely. To which Atrius replies with the last line of the play, quote, "And for your punishment, I give you your children."
46:46 Liv Albert? That play was so fucked up. It was so fucked up. I don't even know how to fathom how fucked up that was. Holy shit. I'm never getting over this. I loved that so much. Truly. That was worse than any horror movie I could name. It was, it was laid out so beautifully. The suspense was incredible. Like the speeches. Oh, the speeches. Honestly, I don't even, I don't even have more to say now. Uh, because I'm just like, I'm too in awe of how fucking fucked that was. So thank you for listening. I just, I love Seneca, I guess, and I certainly love spooky
47:23 Liv Albert? season and having any reason to make episodes like this. Now, a couple just quick translation notes. Every time I've quoted something without like clarifying that it's a quote, it's always the long passages and usually, you know, before the episode or after music or something. That's always been the Frank Justice Miller translation. That's the one that's out of copyright and thus I can read it however much I want. I've also adapted it in small ways just to make it like easier to understand or cut it for length. But thank fuck, we have that translation though, because Seneca's speeches are, they're too good to avoid quoting at length. But all the other shorter quotes and the translation that I've been referring to for like all of the details
48:04 Liv Albert? themselves is Emily Wilson's. This edition though, too, it's really great and it's affordable if you're interested. Uh, it's the Oxford Classics and it has this play and his Medea and more. Highly recommend. I do have the ebook and it was like nine bucks. I don't know how much more the print is, but I imagine it's still pretty affordable. Let's talk about Myths Baby is written and produced by me, Liv Albert. Michaela Pangawish is the Hermes to my Olympians, my incredible producer. Select music by Luke Chaos. The podcast is part of the Memory Collective Podcast Network, which again, is a thing that exists, but will be better fleshed out when I can. You know, that's where we're at.
48:50 Liv Albert? Um, you can get this episode and all of the other episodes ad-free along with other bonus content and various such items at patreon.com/mithsbaby by subscribing to the Oracle Edition or via just the ad-free subscription on Apple Podcasts. That's probably enough for today. I am Liv and I love this shit.
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Previous Spooky Special... Liv's Favourite F--ked Up Family (aka Must Not Eat Children, Part 1) Next RE-AIR: Conversations: Taking Inspiration from the Furies, Seneca’s Medea w/ Dr Lauren Ginsberg Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated