Episode 396 - The Demon of Brownsville Road

When Bob Cranmer finally moves into the historic house on Brownsville Road that he’d felt drawn to since childhood, his dream home quickly becomes an 18-year nightmare. Strange activity escalates from objects moving on their own to scratches, bites, sleep paralysis, blood appearing on walls, bent crucifixes and terrifying encounters that leave the Cranmer family desperate for answers. We’re getting into one of the most intense demonic haunting stories we’ve covered, including paranormal investigators, mediums, priests, an entity living behind a wall, and an attempted exorcism. Book your stay at the Cranmer House, now the Brownsville Road House B&B here. Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited and produced by Jaimi Ryan. Original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:19Speaker 00

  When you put your body in the hands of a surgeon, you assume your doctor will do you no harm.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  I'm looking at the surgery board for tomorrow going, "These people are [BLEEP]."

• 0:32Speaker 00

  But when your doctors end it just for the money, something absolutely insane happens.

• 0:38Speaker 02

  One doctor says, "Yeah, I did a lumbar fusion. My kickback was $25,000." And the other doctor's going, "Well, I only got $12,000 because I did a neck."

• 0:47Speaker 00

  This is a story about a massive web of fraud and deception. Dozens of doctors all over Southern California. A fraud worth over $1 billion.

• 0:59Speaker 03

  Patients were committing suicide, losing their homes, losing their marriages.

• 1:03Speaker 00

  From Sony Music Entertainment and Western Sound, this is Dr. Billions, available now on The Binge. Search for Dr. Billions wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes all at once, ad-free.

• 1:41Corinne Vien?

  Hey, folks.

• 1:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Corinne is horrifying today.

• 1:44Corinne Vien?

  Says the person with black eyes. This is Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 1:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two girls, one ghost. And we are your ghostesses, or your ventriloquist doll Corinne, and your grim reaper Sabrina.

• 1:56Corinne Vien?

  The entities from your nightmares.

• 1:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I actually almost did this for Paranormal Crush, for last episode, because I love the grim reaper.

• 2:02Corinne Vien?

  Also, you look super cute. You know who you remind me of?

• 2:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Who?

• 2:05Corinne Vien?

  Is from Horton here, the who, Katie.

• 2:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't, I don't, I'm not familiar.

• 2:11Corinne Vien?

  Oh, she goes, "In my world, everyone's a rainbow. And now I'll eat butterflies and, or like poop, whatever." She's just so adorable.

• 2:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And the grim reaper is adorable. And you shouldn't be afraid of the grim reaper unless you see the grim reaper that is in this story.

• 2:27Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 2:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I will say that I didn't know that there was a grim reaper-related entity in this story.

• 2:34Corinne Vien?

  Oh, really? Before you picked out your costume?

• 2:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Before I picked out my costume.

• 2:37Corinne Vien?

  That's amazing luck. And I have to take this mask off because I am getting suffocated. And my mouth is going down.

• 2:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Can you just give another moment of like how it moves with your mouth?

• 2:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it like latches on to your...

• 2:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Chin?

• 2:48Corinne Vien?

  Here, like, there's like a lip piece.

• 2:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It is terrifying.

• 2:58Corinne Vien?

  But I can't breathe. I told my dad I'd give him this after because he wanted to wear it for Halloween. I was like, "Okay, I'll give you this."

• 3:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is scary. It's very goosebumps. What's the goosebumps ventriloquist doll?

• 3:09Corinne Vien?

  Slappy, right? I believe that I'm actually wearing the sloppy costume here.

• 3:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, it was giving sloppy.

• 3:16Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, and then I just looked up like ventriloquist doll mask, like moving mouth.

• 3:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's a good mask. Horrifying.

• 3:23Corinne Vien?

  Well, you can buy one too.

• 3:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sponsored by? No, I'm just kidding. We have tried.

• 3:28Corinne Vien?

  It should be.

• 3:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If you own a costume store, let's chat. Okay, I have a long one for today, y'all. And, oh, my credit score has increased. Yay!

• 3:38Corinne Vien?

  Email update. Breaking news!

• 3:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, breaking news, we should also set intentions. Should the grim reaper do it?

• 3:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 3:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  All right, if you are listening to this episode, that was my site.

• 3:51Corinne Vien?

  It's so weird because your, the contacts are completely black. I actually can't tell if you're truly looking at me or not half the time.

• 3:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Maybe I'll wear these more.

• 3:59Corinne Vien?

  Because I'm not totally sure where your irises are.

• 4:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  These are actually more comfortable than the yellow ones that I was wearing for the last couple of episodes.

• 4:06Corinne Vien?

  Like, I think maybe, are they just like maybe slightly askew? Because when you, I think when you're choosing to look at me, it looks like you're looking here. Like where I would guess your pupils are versus where the iris is. But it's perfect because it's kind of like you're looking just past a person.

• 4:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I'm actually looking deep into your soul. I'm gonna steal it. But anyway, yes, so this is a, this is a story about a demon, and...

• 4:27Corinne Vien?

  This is a story about a girl.

• 4:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is a story about a girl. It's just very demon-like. No, it's very demonic. And it's also very close to Halloween. The veil is very thin. We do like to set intentions prior to listening to stories like this and prior to talking about something that we would consider evil. With that being said, we do recommend that you don't listen while driving, but you do your thing. If you are, wherever you're listening, we think it's best to set intentions, make it very clear that nothing with ill intent or evil or dark is welcome into your space. That you are surrounded by love and light and rainbows and butterflies. And that that is the only thing welcome into your life.

• 5:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And if you want to light a candle, if you want to do other intention setting, you can totally do that. But our intention is that we are surrounded by love and light, that nothing with ill intent is welcome into our space or into the lives of our listeners, and evil be gone.

• 5:26Corinne Vien?

  And that's that.

• 5:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And that's that. And now we find ourselves in the shoes of a nine-year-old boy. His name is Bob Cranmer. And for some reason, he finds himself standing in front of that house again. He doesn't know why, but he's drawn to it. It's big, it's beautiful, a three-story craftsman-style home with a wraparound porch, large columns, and a big oak tree that just begs to be looked at. But it's not the look of the house that draws him in. It's something deeper, quieter, something his youthful brain can't put into words. All he knows is that whenever he's near, he feels inclined to stop by it, even if it means taking the long way, all to stand in front of this house and take it in.

• 6:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And here he is again, standing in front of 3406 Brownsville Road, a historic home in Brentwood, Pennsylvania. He's nine. He's never been inside this house. But yet, it feels like home. He's never been inside and yet, he feels like he's known this place far longer than he's ever been alive. And here, standing before it, the young Bob Cranmer knows in his gut that someday, it will be his. Through the years, Bob Cranmer will carry this feeling about this house with him. Through grade school, through high school, through college, through his time in the army, no matter how far life brought him, his mind and heart always return to the house on Brownsville Road,

• 6:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  a permanent fixture in his mind. What this little boy standing on the sidewalk didn't know is that this house so quietly, yet persistently, was drawing him in. And it would one day nearly destroy him and his family.

• 7:04Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god.

• 7:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That one day, he would live in that house and spend 18 years fighting the hardest battle he ever fought. And this is a man who spent time in the army. The house that Bob Cranmer spent his entire childhood and life staring at and dreaming of would become the site of one of the most well-documented and most publicly corroborated demonic hauntings in modern American history.

• 7:28Corinne Vien?

  See, that's wild that like the house called him as a kid, like it's playing the long game.

• 7:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Literally, he grew up in this neighborhood, grew up in this town, and was so drawn to this house.

• 7:39Corinne Vien?

  And this is my dream home, and you finally get it. You feel like your life has been fulfilled.

• 7:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And there are so many occurrences like throughout his life where the house, like he had connections to the house.

• 7:50Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 7:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 7:51Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, this is so creepy already.

• 7:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's very, like, I didn't know that part about it because when we did our collab with, what show was it? Sinisterhood? No. So Supernatural.

• 8:02Corinne Vien?

  So Supernatural did the Brownsville.

• 8:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When we did a collab with So Supernatural, they did an episode about the demon of Brownsville Road.

• 8:09Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 8:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I'm telling you, y'all, we hardly scratched the front surface.

• 8:13Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, this has been on our list for a while.

• 8:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A family of six moved in in 1988, believing they were achieving a dream and building a future together. Instead, they were entering an 18-year nightmare filled with scratches, bites, bleeding walls, sleep paralysis, attacks, and violence perpetrated by a demon so strong it nearly destroyed them. And this is a hefty story. Like I said, I read the book, The Demon of Brownsville Road, which is written by Bob Cranmer himself. It's 400 pages. It's a lot.

• 8:44Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god. And this isn't even a two-part episode. You're just trying to squeeze it into one.

• 8:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I will say, I have opinions about Bob Cranmer.

• 8:52Corinne Vien?

  Do you? Do you not believe him?

• 8:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, I, no, it's about him personally.

• 8:56Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 8:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Um, no, I believe the, I believe the hauntings are real. Like, I do believe that. I just don't know that I like him as a person.

• 9:04Corinne Vien?

  Based on the way? You know, I will say, so many hauntings are self-published books. And I think because people don't have an editor, I think there's a lot of like spicy opinions that come out in some of these books that I have found myself too when reading certain hauntings, being like, "Ah, how do I feel about this person as a person?"

• 9:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, he had like the first like five chapters are just about him. And I'm like, which is good context. Like, I get it. Like, you want to like introduce people to you and like your background. But yeah, I will say, I wouldn't necessarily want him to be my dad. But also, my dad wasn't a great dad either, so I don't know.

• 9:44Corinne Vien?

  Who can find Sabrina a daddy?

• 9:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I really, I'm, I'm looking for a daddy.

• 9:50Corinne Vien?

  Who's your daddy?

• 9:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. I mean, I do know, but I don't know.

• 9:54Corinne Vien?

  New reality show, it's not dating, it's just who can be the, the correct paternal figure in Sabrina's life?

• 10:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I did, so we're recording this right after Father's Day and I did get emotional yesterday. And, but then I was so happy that my sister found a man who is a good father. And like, it made me just so, like, for her, I'm just so glad that she has that.

• 10:20Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 10:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And he is like the one example so close to me of a good father. And I, like, I feel like I

• 10:28Corinne Vien?

  Break the cycle.

• 10:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Get to see that in a really beautiful way.

• 10:30Corinne Vien?

  Find the person who will be a good dad.

• 10:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Looking for that too. Um, okay, so today we're going to do a deep dive, starting at the beginning of the story. We will look at the house, the family, and the years of escalating terror that followed. This is the demon of Brownsville Road. I'm gonna start with the man at the center of it all. Robert Wesley Cranmer, or Bob Cranmer. He is the one who wrote this book. He is the one who was called to this house for years and years and years and eventually did move in. Bob Cranmer was born in nineteen fifty-six in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And like I mentioned, he grew up so intrigued by this house at three, four, zero, six Brownsville Road. From an early age, he knew that one day he was going to own this home, but he never understood why. And it wouldn't be for decades that he would understand. Like, it wouldn't be until after all of the hauntings ended,

• 11:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  that he would understand why. And it won't be till the end of this episode that we all understand why.

• 11:22Corinne Vien?

  So glad you're covering this, cause I, I genuinely forget what happens.

• 11:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's so much. And there's also so much that I can't even include in this episode because, and a lot of it, like, there's a section that I have where there's a lot of hauntings. And I'll tell a couple stories specifically on their own, but a lot of it is like similar things that happened over the course of time, so I kind of will truncate them together. Okay, um, here's what I think is important. Again, there's like six chapters of the book talking about his background. But here's what I think is important about Bob Cranmer. He was born and raised in the town of Brentwood, Pennsylvania, and he got into quite a bit of trouble growing up, until he turned to God and religion. And that is a really like big pivotal part of the story, religion.

• 12:04Corinne Vien?

  So sorry.

• 12:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Undressing again.

• 12:06Corinne Vien?

  Fully not in my costume.

• 12:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Would you like to hold my site?

• 12:10Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, sure. I'll, I'll have something. I'm just like so itchy all of a sudden.

• 12:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh no.

• 12:15Corinne Vien?

  I can't.

• 12:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is it more?

• 12:17Corinne Vien?

  It might be. Psychosomatic at this point. I think something's wrong and I'm gonna react.

• 12:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He got into quite a bit of trouble, turned to God and religion, which is a really big part of the story, religion and his belief in God. At some point in high school, he turned things around, turned to God. He then enrolled in the US Army and spent a lot of time studying psychological warfare, which is important because this story plays out almost like a war movie.

• 12:46Corinne Vien?

  It's interesting that he's making these life changes and decisions because to me, I'm like, was this somehow him unknowingly preparing for the battle?

• 12:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Maybe yes and no, but also his older brother was very religious. And when Bob Cranmer was growing up, he was choosing really poor things in life. Okay, I'll tell you the story. So, so, but, so there was one time where him and his friends, and I, I might be getting some of the details wrong. Him and his friends peed on the like prom cruise boat. Like, they were just like, they didn't go to prom and then they like found the bridge where the boat with the prom goers was like going underneath and they all peed on the boat.

• 13:27Corinne Vien?

  Oh, oh God, like as people were

• 13:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  On the boat, yeah.

• 13:31Corinne Vien?

  I thought they like snuck on and like peed on it or something.

• 13:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then one of the friends like broke the window of a furniture store and then the police were coming. And so they all sprinted, running away.

• 13:42Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 13:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bob Cranmer runs, he's probably like sixteen, seventeen. And he finds himself on the road of Brownsville Road by this house. And he has a moment where he's like, please God, help me get out of this situation and I will turn things around.

• 13:59Corinne Vien?

  Interesting.

• 14:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's outside of the house.

• 14:01Corinne Vien?

  He knew he was running with the wrong crew and not making the right decisions. He wasn't like the instigator.

• 14:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He might have been at a point, but at this point now, he, yeah, he

• 14:10Corinne Vien?

  He's ready.

• 14:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Turns around and then all of a sudden he's praying like outside of this house, asking for like help from God, like I'll, I'll do this, whatever. A car pulls up and picks him up and takes him home, basically. So like he turned things around. So again, connected to the house. Anyway, he spent a lot of time studying psychological warfare. He then also spent time as a part-time pastor. He eventually met his wife Lisa, it's spelled L E S A though. And even when work took him out of Brentwood, Pennsylvania, he always knew he wanted to go back. And he always knew he wanted to live at three, four, zero, six Brownsville Road. In nineteen eighty, he left the army and went to work for AT&T in New Jersey. And he and his wife Lisa started a family. By nineteen eighty-eight, they are a family of six.

• 14:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's Bob and Lisa, Jessica's four, there's Bobby Junior who's three, David who's two, and two-month-old baby Charlie. And this is a photo of the family, but it's when they're a little bit older.

• 15:06Corinne Vien?

  Looks like a very normal.

• 15:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like an early nineties photo.

• 15:10Corinne Vien?

  Totally, like you go to your filings and get your photo done.

• 15:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. In the fall of nineteen eighty-eight, AT&T was transferring Bob back to Pittsburgh. The very week they begin house hunting, Bob learns that three, four, zero, six Brownsville Road is on the market. The very week they're looking for a house.

• 15:31Corinne Vien?

  That's crazy.

• 15:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And they put in an offer and the couple accepts the first offer. No negotiations, nothing.

• 15:37Corinne Vien?

  Oh my God.

• 15:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  To Bob Cranmer, who had always wanted to live there and always felt connected to the house, he felt like this is a sign.

• 15:44Corinne Vien?

  Oh my gosh, yes, serendipitous.

• 15:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And even, even more serendipitous, so I, I can't remember the specific date, but prior to, so the couple that they buy it from, it, this is a pseudonym that he gives them in the book, but they're the McHenrys, it's a couple. Prior to the McHenrys moving in, there was another couple who owned the home. And the house was going through a foreclosure. This is like probably when Jessica was a baby and

• 16:09Corinne Vien?

  My, okay, Jessica's one of their daughters.

• 16:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Jessica, yeah.

• 16:12Corinne Vien?

  Cause I immediately went to baby Jessica who fell down the

• 16:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not baby Jessica. Jessica's their oldest.

• 16:17Corinne Vien?

  I thought you were giving like another pop culture reference from

• 16:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Jessica's their oldest daughter. Me giving a pop culture reference ever? No.

• 16:25Corinne Vien?

  Not baby Jessica, but their baby.

• 16:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Their baby Jessica.

• 16:29Corinne Vien?

  Jessica.

• 16:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Correct. The house is going through a foreclosure when like Jessica was born. And one of Bob's siblings went to the house and like went to the estate sale and bought a crib from the house and gave it to Bob Cranmer as a gift. And his babies have all slept in this crib.

• 16:47Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 16:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And now they have their youngest as a two-month-old baby Charlie. They're gonna move back into the house with the crib that came from that house. So it's like all of these things are connected to the house. Yeah.

• 17:00Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I had a neighbor, she passed away this past year, but she had offered me their crib.

• 17:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's very sweet.

• 17:08Corinne Vien?

  Which was, you know, like

• 17:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Old, yeah.

• 17:10Corinne Vien?

  Sixty, seventy years old. And I was like, that's really sweet, we have one, thank you. But it sounds a little creepy.

• 17:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, then imagine, imagine twenty years from now, then you like move back into the house with that same crib, you know?

• 17:21Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 17:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So again, all of the serendipity.

• 17:25Corinne Vien?

  But like, nothing's happened so far to them with the crib.

• 17:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right? No, no.

• 17:29Corinne Vien?

  Like it's, they have no reason to think that anything is weird, like weird vibes coming from this house or anything that exits the house.

• 17:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Nope. So the current owners of the house accept Bob and Lisa's first offer, which is kind of shocking, cause it's a nice house. And they went under asking and they accepted immediately. After a childhood of feeling drawn to this house, finally, Bob Cranmer was going to live there. And nothing could get in the way of that. Although looking back, he sure wishes he had not ignored all of the red flags because, oh my God, there were so many. And it starts before they move into the house. Bob and Lisa Cranmer are purchasing the home from an older couple who in the book, he calls them the McHenrys. And from the very first walkthrough, they should have known something was off. First, the McHenrys seem oddly eager to leave, almost anxious to sell and to get out of the house.

• 18:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They claimed it was because Mrs. McHenry got a job for work that required her, it was like a school district thing. And it required her to live in that school district. But they're like kind of shady about it, right? But Bob and Lisa don't ask any questions because remember, Bob is so excited about buying this house. It feels like destiny.

• 18:35Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 18:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So he's not stopping to ask questions about all these odd things. So he's just thrilled that the McHenrys has accepted their first offer. And in November of nineteen eighty-eight, Bob and Lisa, along with the kids, go to the house for their very first walkthrough of the house prior to closing.

• 18:51Corinne Vien?

  I feel like there's so many instances too, where people are just like, you know, you accept the first offer because

• 18:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:57Corinne Vien?

  Jobs, different circumstances.

• 18:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And, and also

• 19:00Corinne Vien?

  We got our house the same way, like they were, they already had another house, so they were kind of eager to

• 19:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then also, all of this is so easy to look back on after the fact, after you know everything that happens. And be like, oh, I should have seen it. But in the moment, it's just a normal thing.

• 19:16Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 19:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But okay, so they're doing a walkthrough, the McHenrys are taking them around. And in retrospect, the couple was filled with nervous energy the entire time. But again, Cranmers don't think much of it. While the family's in the basement with Mr. McHenry, they realize that two-year-old Bobby Junior was not with them anymore. They figure that he was just exploring the house. He's excited, he's running around, he's, this is gonna be his future home, he's two. But then Mrs. McHenry scolds them and scolds them for letting Bobby out of their sight. And they're like, okay, Mrs. McHenry, keep your parenting things to yourself, like he's a child. And they like make a comment, they're like, I'm sure your kids ran around the house when they were young. And she's like, no, they didn't. So they're like, weird, okay. But then they're like, oh, she's probably just worried about the kids breaking something, right?

• 20:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So then they go to find little Bobby. And they find him upstairs on the front staircase, sobbing, crying, hyperventilating, terrified. And no one could get him to talk or explain, he's two years old. Five-year-old Jessica interprets, or basically is like, he probably didn't like the basement, cause I didn't like the basement either. Like, already, kids are being creepy.

• 20:24Corinne Vien?

  I'm so freaked out, like, just seeing you look at me because I just

• 20:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The eyes?

• 20:29Corinne Vien?

  Can't tell if you're looking at me or not. It's like very unsettling.

• 20:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love to unsettle.

• 20:37Corinne Vien?

  It's like when someone's talking to you, but you can tell that they're looking like at your forehead or something.

• 20:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh yeah.

• 20:42Corinne Vien?

  And you're like, ah.

• 20:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're welcome. Before they left the house that day, Bob Cranmer jokingly asks Mr. McHenry, "So like, is anything wrong with the house?" Because he's like, "This is so good to be true." Like, it feels too good to be true. And Mr. McHenry answers all too quickly. "No, there's nothing wrong with the house." And then he made a comment about how, Mr. McHenry makes a comment about how they held mass inside the house multiple times, which should have been another red flag, because Bob Cranmer is a very religious man, practiced as a pastor. It is not common for a mass to be held inside of a house. It's one thing to like, have a priest over and bless it. To have a full mass is a big deal. Like, it's a very sacred thing.

• 21:22Corinne Vien?

  I've never heard of that, unless it's like 1700 and...

• 21:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Exactly.

• 21:25Corinne Vien?

  The pastor's house is also the church.

• 21:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Again, Bob doesn't fixate on it. He couldn't, because he was just too in love with this house and blinded by something deeper, something much bigger than him that was at play here. Okay, so finally, on December 12th, 1988, the Cranmer family moves into 3406 Brownsville Road. They celebrated by buying a grandfather clock with a brass plaque on the front commemorating the date. And Bob takes a photo of the house that day, of move-in day. And in the photo, little Bobby is standing on the sidewalk, kind of in the same spot where Bob, as a child, would stand and stare at the house. He later put it that it looked like Bobby was about to be swallowed whole.

• 22:08Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, oh yeah, he's so tiny. How, but like, looking at the house, it's a pretty house.

• 22:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's a very pretty house, and it has a lot of history. Um, I think like, it used to have a lot more land, which then had been sold off over years. But yeah, beautiful home. And like in so many of our favorite paranormal horror movies, the hauntings began the very first night. Bob and Lisa are getting ready for bed. All of the kids are in their own beds. The bedrooms are all set up. And they go to check on Bobby Jr. But they find that he's not sleeping in his bed. He is sleeping on the floor in his closet. Sadly, the hauntings would then focus primarily on Bobby Jr. and his bedroom, which they will later call the Blue Room.

• 22:51Corinne Vien?

  Which is such a bummer, because he's just the child. He's not the one who asked for help in front of the house and spent years being like summoned to it.

• 23:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's very sad. It's because of the room he got. We'll get into more specifics in a second, but the worst thing is that young Bobby never really told his family what he is experiencing. He only confessed and came clean years later, arguably when things were too late. But we'll get back to that. First, let's talk about the house itself, or what Bob Cranmer knew of the house when he first moved in. The house has a very rich history. It was built sometime around 1909 or 1910, and again, is a three-story, craftsman-style home with 12 rooms. It sits on a stretch of road that has been a major thoroughfare of the area since the 1700s. So, prior to the home even being built, it was on the main route in and out of Pittsburgh. So walked by frontier explorers,

• 23:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  the native tribes, soldiers, and so many more, all before the house was ever built. Before the Cranmers, there are three previous owners that like, in the modern time. The Wagners, who were the ones who were forced to move out in 1979, when the house foreclosed. Then the McHenry's, who the Cranmers purchased the home from. 1994, six years into the Cranmers' ownership, the house was formally designated a historical landmark by Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation, recognizing it for its architecture and history in Pittsburgh, not for anything else, architecture.

• 24:19Corinne Vien?

  Just architecture, okay.

• 24:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The deeper history would not become clear until many years later, and once it did, things did start to make a lot more sense. But until then, we don't get those answers until the very end of this episode. The Cranmers moved into the beautiful, historic, and massive home. And aside from their two-year-old kid Bobby Jr. refusing to sleep in his bed, and instead sleeping in his closet for, I think it was a full, at least a full year.

• 24:44Corinne Vien?

  Which is so...

• 24:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, they literally just put a mattress on the floor in the closet.

• 24:47Corinne Vien?

  Well, normally, you'd think like, the closet is the scary room, but like, for him to just feel safe being confined in a really small closeted area.

• 24:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, it's very sad. But aside from that, they started to believe that they had like a Casper the Friendly Ghost situation. Also, common theme in these types of stories. Therapy has been such a life-changing experience for me, and I just really advocate for it. I think everyone should have access to mental health, and I know that it's not always easy, and sometimes it feels overwhelming, or it just feels too expensive, which is why I really love Rula. Because finding a therapist is hard enough, then finding one who takes your insurance is even harder. But Rula does things differently. They partner with over 100 insurance plans, making the average copay just $15 per session from real licensed professionals at a price that actually makes sense.

• 25:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 26:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 27:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 27:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 28:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's 20% off any additional pairs when you purchase one pair at W-A-R-B-Y Parker dot com slash T-G-O-G.

• 28:41Corinne Vien?

  I also just, I still feel bad for the little boy. Like, if Noah were like, "I need to sleep in my closet. I'm only gonna sleep in my closet." I'd be like, "Why don't you just sleep in my bed?"

• 28:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's a, okay. And we talked about this a bit in the last episode, because I had this in mind. And I, this is what I wrote right here. This book is written by Bob Cranmer, the dad. And it seems very, very evident that this is not the type of family that communicates at all. I'm not part of the family, I'm not a psychologist, but it's just the vibe I got from the way that Bob wrote the book, and the fact that everyone in the house was experiencing intense, insane hauntings, and never communicated about it until maybe 18 years later.

• 29:21Corinne Vien?

  That is wild, especially because there's children.

• 29:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A child is terrified to sleep in his own bed. They just put a mattress on the floor, and then this child doesn't tell them.

• 29:29Corinne Vien?

  They don't ask why, and the child doesn't offer anything up. The child doesn't go running to the parents to say, "Help me."

• 29:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I really do think if we got this story from Bobby Jr.'s perspective, it would be a very, very different story. And it's scary from Bob Cranmer's perspective, but I imagine it's way scarier from Bobby Jr.'s. So with that, otherwise, the hauntings seem silly or playful to Bob Cranmer and to Lisa, because they're the only ones who are adults, and I guess their experience is the only one that matters. So night one, Bobby Jr. is terrified of sleeping in his own bed, sleeps in the closet. Because they were religious and had just moved in, they decide to have a priest come over to bless the house. And this priest goes room to room, blessing every single room. But when he reaches Bobby's room, which we will call the Blue Room, Bobby threw a fit, screaming, refusing to let the priest into his room,

• 30:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  like, literally blocking his room. Priest is not allowed. So the priest is like, "Oh, don't worry, it's fine. I'll bless all the other rooms." Like, what's one room that we miss? It's the room they should have blessed. That's the only room that actually mattered. But at the time, they're like, oh, Bobby's just having a little tantrum. He doesn't want anyone in his room. Fine, let's move on. Other things would happen. The lights in the basement would be turned on every single morning. The radio in Bob's workshop, which is also in the basement, would be on in the mornings, or like often be like turned on. And then this is like the creepiest part is they had this wood burner in the basement and a chair that was by a desk would like have been dragged to the middle of the room, sitting right in front of the wood burner, as if someone was like sitting there staring.

• 31:04Corinne Vien?

  Oh, that is creepy.

• 31:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's just such a weird.

• 31:07Corinne Vien?

  The music you can just try to like excuse away as like a friendly

• 31:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 31:10Corinne Vien?

  spirit who just wants to listen to music, but like that's creepy.

• 31:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then also I think they had to install like a different heating system because something kept turning on their heat all the time.

• 31:22Corinne Vien?

  Trying to burn the house down.

• 31:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Kind of feels like that. People in the family would hear knocking and footsteps throughout the house while they were in bed late at night. But the most common occurrence was in a small coat closet. And this coat closet will come back into play. It's one of those lights that's like a pull chain to turn on. And every time they would open the closet, that pull chain would be wrapped around the fixture.

• 31:43Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 31:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is weird, right? And it's high up, like it's not like the kids can reach it. They would run tests where they would turn the light on, make sure that the pull chain was hanging down, close the closet door, open it within seconds, wrapped around the fixture.

• 31:57Corinne Vien?

  Ew, oh, that, no.

• 31:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bob even started, he fixed it once by, he put like a hook on the wall and like tied it to the hook every time he closed the closet.

• 32:06Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, cause you're like, is there some weird magnetic thing? Or like maybe some air circulation? I mean, a couple of seconds doesn't make sense for that, but like you can still try

• 32:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:15Corinne Vien?

  to uh, explain it away.

• 32:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So they eventually put a rosary on the pull chain, but you can even see the rosary is also wrapped around the fixture.

• 32:22Corinne Vien?

  Hmm. Yeah, and that's not an easy thing to get wrapped around. Like, I don't know, I was, I was picturing it more of like a pole that went vertically and it's wrapping like that. But for it to go up and over and up and over.

• 32:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 32:35Corinne Vien?

  That just doesn't happen.

• 32:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's so benign. So they're like, oh, silly little prankster ghost.

• 32:41Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 32:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ha ha.

• 32:42Corinne Vien?

  Just like their weird little thing that they do.

• 32:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And also immediately after moving in, people in the neighborhood and even like friends and whatnot would be like, oh, you moved into the haunted house. And Bob Cranmer was like, no, you must be mistaken because there was another house on Brownsville Road that was rumored to be haunted.

• 32:58Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 32:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it was like a house that Bob Cranmer grew up being dared to go like ring the doorbell.

• 33:03Corinne Vien?

  Oh, yeah. So I would, I would absolutely be like, no, everyone keeps getting confused. Like that's the other house.

• 33:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Turns out those houses are actually connected, which again, Bob doesn't know at the time.

• 33:12Corinne Vien?

  Bang. It's so wild that like, how does everyone else know the lore, but he doesn't? He grew up here.

• 33:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because the house didn't want him to know it. Um, okay. But so these small occurrences continue to happen for years. And Bob and Lisa really have no idea how bad it is because, like I said, this family doesn't talk about things. And while the entity within the home certainly predates the Krammers and perhaps the home itself, I think the way in which the Krammers family dysfunctioned is why it thrived and became so powerful.

• 33:39Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 33:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because demonic energy thrives on isolation and family turmoil. And that is where this story turns and starts to feel a bit like hereditary and haunting of a house.

• 33:49Corinne Vien?

  Damn.

• 33:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bob Cranmer becomes entirely self-absorbed with his own political career. He writes in his book that he wanted to help clean up the town. And this is where my opinion of him kind of is like, eh, because he's so focused on like the things that he's done that even in the writing of his book, like I feel like he's ignoring what actually happened. But yeah, he's in his political career, he's like trying to help clean up the town. I guess there was like underground gambling and casinos and all this crazy stuff. But while he's poor and focused into that.

• 34:16Corinne Vien?

  You paused in between under and ground. And because of that pause, my brain is like struggling to comprehend underground gambling as being anything but gambling that happens underground in tunnels.

• 34:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, in, in the sewer system.

• 34:28Corinne Vien?

  That's like where I was like, oh my god.

• 34:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's Ninja Turtles.

• 34:31Corinne Vien?

  Then I was like, wait a second, that just means in secret.

• 34:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In secret. But while he's trying to clean up the town, he's completely ignoring the issues under his own roof. Lisa is left at home to take care of the kids and manage all the finances. And clearly, communication is poor here because Lisa starts to overspend and secretly is putting the family into debt.

• 34:50Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 34:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which also like, there's something else happening with her, like her mental health really starts to deteriorate once moving into this house, which she then like copes with, with buying things.

• 35:00Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 35:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Doesn't talk to Bob about it because people in this family don't talk about things. And the kids also start to act out and start battling their own mental health issues, which for the most part, I want to say Bobby Jr. and Charlie were the ones who, who dealt with most of this.

• 35:17Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 35:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Jessica, the oldest, and then, and David, like, they did experience some things, but they did seem to be less impacted. Although again, I kind of think they probably didn't talk about a lot of other things.

• 35:29Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 35:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  All the while, they're, they're dealing with their own terrifying hauntings, which no one is talking about. Bobby Jr. keeps seeing a grim reaper-like entity.

• 35:38Corinne Vien?

  And how old is he again?

• 35:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He was two when he moved in.

• 35:41Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 35:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So, so keep in mind, they move in in 1988 and these hauntings and experiences go on through 2006.

• 35:49Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 35:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  For the first 16, 15, 16 years, everyone's just living with it, not dealing with it.

• 35:55Corinne Vien?

  That's so crazy. I'm sure part of why the older kids didn't experience as much too is because they're, they're also like going out with friends and going to school.

• 36:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But they're young too, like Jessica was four or five when they moved in.

• 36:06Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 36:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But yeah, maybe in school.

• 36:08Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, they're just spending a little bit less time.

• 36:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Although she had sleep paralysis ever since moving into the house and then just like, didn't talk about it to anyone. So. I don't think she really was. Yeah.

• 36:18Corinne Vien?

  The fact that literally every single kid didn't say a single thing.

• 36:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Says a lot.

• 36:24Corinne Vien?

  Says a lot. Raise alarm bells.

• 36:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, Lisa apparently, when first moving into the house, was walking down the stairs and literally had her legs like knocked out from underneath her and fell on her back and shoulder and like

• 36:39Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god.

• 36:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  ever since living in that house. But like, when the hauntings got worse, the pain in those spots where she fell would get worse. But she also didn't really talk to anyone about this. And then Jessica, when she was much older, had a very similar experience. And then told her mom and her mom was like, oh yeah, that happened to me when I moved, when we first moved in.

• 36:56Corinne Vien?

  Hello?

• 36:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. They're all dealing with hauntings, yet they're not telling anyone. They're keeping it to themselves, almost like a metaphor for the psychological turmoil they are each individually facing. Oh, I put a note because I, I didn't want to write the whole story, but I was, I put a note to tell you the story. So Bobby Jr., when he was like four, got really sick. And this just shows you how ingrained it was to not talk about your pain.

• 37:21Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He got really sick, feverish, and they were concerned about him. And they call the doctor and they're like, oh, here's some antibiotics. If it doesn't get better by the, by Monday, like take him, bring him into the doctor's office. On Saturday, it gets so much worse, even after being on antibiotics for a couple of days, that they decide to take him to the emergency room. His appendix had ruptured and this four-year-old child was not complaining at all. He was probably in the most severe pain. It just seemed like he had a fever to his parents. So if he's not telling his parents about that type of pain, he's not telling them about anything.

• 37:56Corinne Vien?

  Which part of me is like, was he not fully telling them or were they just writing him off?

• 38:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I don't know. So when they look back at the early years of living in this house, it becomes very clear that the house was feeding off of this energy and targeting specifically poor Bobby Jr. and Charlie. And if you're a demon, this is probably the best meal of your life. Like, mm, finger looking good. This family doesn't talk about things. I can isolate every single one of them and feed off of their fear.

• 38:21Corinne Vien?

  And there's a lot of them.

• 38:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then feed off of the like psychological drama of the family.

• 38:27Corinne Vien?

  Cause this is family of six, right? There's four kids, two parents.

• 38:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. So these small things continue for years. But things do start to shift kind of at the same time as Bob Cranmer's political career starts to suffer, which doesn't feel like a coincidence. It's like when his personal life is suffering more, the hauntings intensify, which is probably the true of all of the people in the family, but because it's written from Bob Cranmer's perspective, I can't say for certain.

• 38:51Corinne Vien?

  Or is it like just what he experienced ramped up?

• 38:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know.

• 38:54Corinne Vien?

  Like when each individual person goes through something, do they have the perception, the activities ramping up, but it's really just all ramping up around them?

• 39:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Around them. I don't know. One day, Bob is outside doing some gardening when his shovel hits something weird. It's a box. He pulls this box out, it's metal. He opens it and inside are a lot of religious objects, rosaries, penance. And he's like, that's weird. And it looks somewhat new. So he thinks it belongs to the McHenry's and it being such a weird thing, he calls up the McHenry's. And Mr. McHenry says, put it back exactly where you found it and ends the conversation.

• 39:31Corinne Vien?

  The previous owners are like creepy in the way that they.

• 39:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cause they don't want to talk about, that's why they moved so quickly. This is when Bob and Lisa start to realize that the ghost isn't some silly prankster because it starts getting extremely physical. Lisa and Bob start having really intense nightmares about different members of the family being harmed. Bob starts waking up with these like red hot angry scratch marks. Can you guess how many scratches there are?

• 39:55Corinne Vien?

  A trace.

• 39:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Three, long lines, like three fingernails digging into him. People start to get bit in their sleep.

• 40:02Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god.

• 40:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And when they examine the bites.

• 40:03Corinne Vien?

  There's so much biting this October.

• 40:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  October.

• 40:06Corinne Vien?

  Biting and needles this year. That's our theme.

• 40:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When they look at the bite, it looks like they're from a dog. And the family does have a dog, but their dog would never bite like that.

• 40:16Corinne Vien?

  Well, and also you like, you'd know when your dog bites you.

• 40:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Even if it happened in your sleep, you'd wake up to it.

• 40:20Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 40:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Furniture.

• 40:22Corinne Vien?

  It's not like your dog is stealthy and is slinking away after a bite.

• 40:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then your dog is not doing this. Furniture starts moving on its own. Artwork is moved or taken off the wall. And then Bob, who's religious, gives everyone crucifixes to wear or puts them in the rooms. They're often taken off the walls or damaged, literally like folded in on one another. And I'm not giving you total timeline here, but because everything's happening at such different times.

• 40:47Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 40:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Basically, like the years before they start doing the blessings and exorcisms of the house, it all bleeds together. But there was a point where Bobby Jr. was sleeping with this like crucifix on a necklace around his neck.

• 40:59Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 41:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And this thing is like big enough where he can like bring it over his head without clasping it, uncasping it. But it would still be like a struggle, like it would hit his head. He would wake up in the morning with it no longer around his neck. He would find it, there were times where he found it literally between the mattress and the box spring. And then one time he found it, the crucifix had literally been folded in on itself.

• 41:19Corinne Vien?

  What the? F.

• 41:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Then.

• 41:22Corinne Vien?

  This is so, like, this is what scares me. It's like when the things that people choose to protect themselves against evil that is said to help protect people, if they truly believe in it, just useless.

• 41:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Or it like, it does do something, but it loses its power after you've used it for so many times.

• 41:43Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, maybe.

• 41:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cause the demon's feeding off of so much energy here that like, even if like.

• 41:48Corinne Vien?

  To bend a crucifix.

• 41:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. So then there's this grim reaper like entity that while no one told one another, they were all seeing. Except Bob, apparently he never saw the physical shape of this entity.

• 42:00Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 42:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He only ever smelt it, which was not a good smell. It was a shadowy, black robed figure that moved through their house and showed up especially in Bobby's room, the blue room. Bobby had one especially horrifying experience that again, he never told anyone until so much later, but he was probably in like elementary, middle school. He was sick, so he stayed home from school. He was home alone while his mom went to take the other kids to school. He was laying in bed when all of a sudden he heard what sounded like bagpipes playing and he looked around confused. And that's when his bedroom door opened on its own and this horrifying like fall of energy that had like lightning strikes starts moving into the room and it's shaped like the torso of a child.

• 42:40Corinne Vien?

  What?

• 42:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It moved quickly to the foot of his bed and then whipped right back out of the bedroom door. But as it left the bedroom door, this grim reaper hooded figure starts to enter and then rushes towards the bed, pulling the blanket over Bobby, like almost like wrapping him in it tightly. And then it's pulled off of Bobby and within seconds, like Bobby is like not even sure how to process this. It is folded neatly at the end of his bed. And then all of a sudden he's like having no, there's no time to process it. The blanket's ripped off of him, folded neatly on the bed, and then he feels a presence above him.

• 43:13Corinne Vien?

  Are these multiple entities?

• 43:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. He screams in horror. He's home alone. No one was coming. And then this entity just disappears. And he basically laid there in horror and kept the encounter to himself.

• 43:24Corinne Vien?

  This is so confusing. I mean, I mean, I feel like we have totally changed our perspective on the grim reaper after learning things about it. So the grim reaper like entity, I'm like, oh, well, it's protecting him from this lightning zapped child torso demon.

• 43:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, a priest did later tell him that the lightning zapped energy was actually a good spirit. But Bobby Jr. is like, nothing about that was positive. Like ev- he, he's like, all of it was evil.

• 43:49Corinne Vien?

  Well, because him getting like wrapped up, it sounds so creepy, but it's also like in response to seeing something else. So I was like, oh, was it trying to protect like, hide?

• 43:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think the grim reaper is what they use to explain what it looks like, but I don't think it was the grim reaper. I think it was a hooded figure.

• 44:04Corinne Vien?

  Oh, God.

• 44:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 44:05Corinne Vien?

  That's a lot to happen. That's like whiplash of activity.

• 44:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Okay. So now it's 2003 and by this time the Cranmer family has been through a lot and is going through a lot. Bob and Lisa's marriage is on the rocks. He's found out about her overspending. It's still a problem. She's still hiding it from Bob. The kids are getting older. Bobby specifically is having a lot of mental health challenges on top of a lot of mood swings. And one night it boils over. According to Bob Cranmer, and again, remember this book is written from Bob Cranmer's perspective, Bobby Jr., who's now a teenager, out of the blue starts to physically attack him out of nowhere. He becomes so violent that in the book Bob is like, I didn't recognize him.

• 44:46Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 44:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's, it felt like something else had taken over my child and Bobby Jr. starts truly pummeling Bob. And as he's like punching him and like fighting him, in a deep guttural voice, he says, I'm going to kill you. Bob is so certain that this was not his son.

• 45:03Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 45:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But he's also like now terrified for his life and his son, who's kind of gotten bigger, is truly beating him up. And so he can't do anything but fight back. It gets so bad that the police are called and Bob Cranmer, the dad, is taken out of the house in handcuffs and is arrested. And remember, he's in politics. So this becomes a big news story.

• 45:25Corinne Vien?

  I know that there's poltergeist activity and demons here, but like, the part of me keeps being like, are some of the stories?

• 45:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  One hundred percent.

• 45:36Corinne Vien?

  But yeah, just hearing like, oh, finally, when one of the kids gets big enough to overpower their dad, that they do have some choice words for him. And then he's upset that it's affecting his political career. It's just, it's, that's.

• 45:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  One hundred percent. And that's, so this is my biggest thing with the story is I absolutely believe that there are hauntings happening.

• 45:57Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 45:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I also think there's a lot of family turmoil that is not fully addressed. And I don't want to make assumptions, but I think there's a lot of stuff going on.

• 46:09Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I'm curious if the kids ever wanted to participate in the book, were asked if they wanted to, have said anything on their own.

• 46:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know.

• 46:17Corinne Vien?

  Is anyone in contact?

• 46:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes, one of the kids actually, cause now it's a bed and breakfast and Bob Cranmer runs it with one of the kids.

• 46:25Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 46:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Anyway, so the charges are dropped the next morning, but everyone is talking about it. A judge tells Bob Cranmer to not go home and orders that he spends two weeks out of the house. As Bob is sorting out his accommodation, so this is the morning after the fight. Lisa calls and informs him that overnight his aunt, who was living in the house on the third floor.

• 46:44Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Died in her sleep.

• 46:46Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, I just got chills.

• 46:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Inside the house, like that morning was found dead in her bed.

• 46:50Corinne Vien?

  So what was her cause of death? Do we know?

• 46:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think it was a heart attack. I mean, she was like older, but it was kind of unexpected.

• 46:56Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 46:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bob describes this night as the turning point because it was when he was forced to realize that there was something evil at work within his home and he can no longer ignore it. And I do want to say this is important because a lot of skeptics are like, okay, this is all just mental health issues and whatnot, but, and I'm not going to get into like all the specifics about it, but Bobby Jr., Lisa and Charlie, who were the ones who had like the most mental health issues, all sought professional help in regards to their mental health for like various different things.

• 47:27Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 47:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  For long, prolonged periods of time. They're on medication, like what, there was some institutionalization moments and stuff. So like, they weren't ignoring the mental health. They very much knew that that was prominent and there, but the hauntings were also real.

• 47:42Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 47:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it's not just that. So yeah, so in, now at this point, in tandem with help from the mental health professionals, Bob Cranmer decides he wants to also get the church involved. And I've mentioned this briefly, but Bob Cranmer was at one point a pastor and he was a deeply devout and religious man, even sought to pursue it as a career once. And so he had a lot of connections.

• 48:03Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 48:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So he reaches out, this next section is called Father Help Me. Maybe Fathers Help Me. Bob Cranmer was also looking for a daddy. Over the next 10 years plus, Bob Cranmer worked closely with a couple of priests and religious figures, but the main ones that we'll talk about are Father Ron and Father Mike, and then the Passionist Nuns. Father Ron is kind of like the biggest one.

• 48:24Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 48:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So he worked with the diocese and Father Mike is from the Passionist monastery. Father Mike will spend a lot of time in the house, whereas Father Ron is almost this like Wizard of Oz, man behind the curtain, mystic vibe. Like he, unless I misread it, I don't think he ever really comes to the house.

• 48:44Corinne Vien?

  Interesting.

• 48:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But he will call Bob and be like, this is about to happen.

• 48:47Corinne Vien?

  Okay. So the two priests are not working together. They're just individually. Okay.

• 48:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 48:53Corinne Vien?

  Do they even know about each other?

• 48:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They do know about each other. And I think this is like a result of the house, but they end up like getting in fights with each other and have like disagreeing appointment or like opinions. And it kind of feels like the house is trying to tear everyone apart and they doesn't want them to work together. It wants them to be at odds with one another.

• 49:10Corinne Vien?

  Well, and it's just even more confusing too, if you're getting conflicting information, like as the, the Cranmer family seems to be getting from the priests, like what do you do?

• 49:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, the thing is like Father Ron's not in the house, but then he's also, here's the thing, Bob Cranmer would get calls from Father Ron and Father Ron would blow Bob's mind. He would be able to articulate in detail exact things in the house without ever being there.

• 49:34Corinne Vien?

  Oh, you know, okay. You know, this is making me think, cause at first I'm like, okay, this is great because then the demon can't get in the way and diminish their belief in the power of these priests and like what they do. If they're blowing their minds in this way.

• 49:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure.

• 49:48Corinne Vien?

  It's also reminding me of a case and I cannot remember which one it was that we covered where they were making the phone calls and seeking help. And it turned out to not be someone who worked at the church at all. And they were speaking like to the entity.

• 50:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 50:03Corinne Vien?

  Posing as a priest.

• 50:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Was that the Smurals? I think it was the Smurals.

• 50:06Corinne Vien?

  Was it the Smurfield Possession?

• 50:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Family Possession. Yeah.

• 50:09Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Cause I'm like, well, if he never went to the house and he knew everything that was going on in the house and he was, the one priest that was in the house was at.

• 50:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I promise it's not a demon. And I'm about to tell you, okay, but there was one time, so the way that Bob writes it in the book is the way that he experienced it, kind of where he did not know that there was a woman behind the man behind the curtain. So.

• 50:32Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 50:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ron would call and there was like one time specifically where he called and was like, there's a mirror on the second floor landing, like across from the door. That's like three doors down and there's like a vase next to the mirror. Cover that mirror. Like it was so specific.

• 50:49Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure enough, there was a mirror and they covered it. And apparently there was like a portal situation. But after the fact, after like a lot of this stuff happened, it turned out, and I'm just gonna give her credit now because I think she's such an amazing part of the story and probably underrated part of the story. But turns out Father Ron was working with a Catholic intuitive, she's very much a medium, but I don't think she likes being called a medium, named Connie Valenti, who I wrote is maybe the most underrated person in this story, and I'd really love to do an entire episode on her. And the photo I found of her has her wearing a tiara, and I think she's delightful.

• 51:23Corinne Vien?

  Oh my gosh, I love her jewelry.

• 51:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She has since passed away.

• 51:27Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 51:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But her story is incredible. And she, she was a very religious person like from growing up. And when she started to have these intuitive psychic moments, she thought it was like a religious experience. But then she was criticized so deeply for her involvement in things. Cause like police used to reach out to her to help solve cases and stuff. But then she was called a witch and like belittled and stuff. So she very much wanted to remain anonymous.

• 51:57Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 51:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Didn't want people to know she was working, but-

• 51:59Corinne Vien?

  It's such a bummer when people, when people ruin things for others.

• 52:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Agreed.

• 52:03Corinne Vien?

  And it like depends on the era, it depends on the location. Cause like we've said it a million times, if someone called us a witch, we'd be like, that's the highest praise we could ever get.

• 52:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Connie Valenti, she apparently was experiencing the stigmata, and it was confirmed by the Vatican too.

• 52:17Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 52:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But so she called herself a Catholic intuitive and she is on the money. She is the reason that like a lot of this story was able to be put together. But she never once, not once stepped foot inside 3406 Brownsville Road because she didn't need to. She was an intuitive. She was able to tap into the home and the spirits there and would relay information to Father Ron, who would then call Bob Cranmer and give Bob instructions, which Bob was always like mind blown by it because he didn't know that like Connie was doing readings on the house.

• 52:50Corinne Vien?

  Right. Which like power to this priest too, who's teaming up and doing this.

• 52:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. She was like a member of the church. But Connie could describe the inside of the home, rooms, furniture, the layout to exact detail.

• 53:03Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 53:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it was with her help that Bob started to piece together the history of the home and start to understand why there was such a dark energy that resided there and was now torturing the Cranmer family.

• 53:12Corinne Vien?

  Well, now I'm just curious about all the cases that she helped police solve and like what she was able to say.

• 53:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's why I want to do a whole episode on her.

• 53:18Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I, I hope you do.

• 53:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I just don't know how much is available because she was a very private woman.

• 53:23Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 53:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And keep in mind, we know for a fact that hauntings predate the Cranmers moving in. One, McHenry's were super weird, holding mass. They were holding mass in the house because of the hauntings.

• 53:34Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 53:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They buried the rosaries. And then also the family that lived there before the McHenry's, they spoke to like a daughter or someone who confirmed that there were hauntings in the house. But they were never as bad as they got when they did when the Cranmers lived there. Connie saw a lot of bloodshed on the land, specifically deaths of women and children. And she felt that that was a pattern that predated the homes being built on that land. But then when the house was built, it was a pattern that continued to happen. Like, kind of like the cycle of trauma. She saw a man with a massive knife and a lot of blood and a horrible crime that was committed before the house was ever built. She then stated, again, through Father Ron, that was relayed to Bob Cranmer,

• 54:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  that when the house was first built, it was used by a doctor who, in the book, they called Dr. M, who would perform illegal abortions in the 1920s and 1930s. And according to Bob Cranmer, he was able to verify many of these claims. And also according to them, guess which room these procedures were done in?

• 54:36Corinne Vien?

  No, not little Bobby's room.

• 54:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The blue room, the room that Bobby Jr. slept in, or was so scared to sleep in his bed and slept in the closet.

• 54:44Corinne Vien?

  Oh, poor kid.

• 54:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Father Ron instructed Bob to do cleansing rituals and Father Mike would come and do these rituals and blessings of the house in person with Bob Cranmer. Father Ron told Bob, this is not going to be quick. This is going to be a long battle and we won't know if we're making any progress for quite some time. We might not know if this is doing anything for at least a year. So this is where the story really starts to feel like a war movie. Bob Cranmer enlists his skills and mentality that he had while in the army to fight the demon of Brownsville Road. For years, the Cranmers, led by Bob, would face the demon. There would be days and battles where the Cranmers would take small victories, but others where the demon would persist and win.

• 55:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 56:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 56:47Speaker 06

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• 57:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Corinne has talked about her struggle with OCD in the past, especially postpartum when she had Noah and all of the what ifs and intrusive thoughts that her brain went through in fear. And for a lot of people, actually millions of people, that's not just anxiety. That is OCD and most of them have no idea. Real OCD is persistent, unwanted, intrusive thoughts that can feel totally out of character along with mental or physical behaviors you feel driven to do to get relief, even when that relief never actually comes. But here's the thing, OCD is highly treatable with the right kind of specialized therapy. It needs ERP exposure and responsive prevention therapy, which has proven to me the most effective treatment. And that is where NoCD comes in. NoCD is the world's leading provider of OCD treatment,

• 57:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  covered by insurance for over 138 million Americans. NoCD has licensed therapists that specialize in ERP therapy in live, face-to-face, virtual sessions, and there's support between sessions too. So you're never facing OCD alone. If you are struggling with OCD or relenting intrusive thoughts, NoCD can help. Book a free 15-minute call to get started at nocd.com. So now, this is 2003 or 04. For over two years, this battle persists.

• 58:31Corinne Vien?

  That is such a long time. And a long time to feel kind of like you're not getting any relief.

• 58:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And there would be days where there was relief and then there would be days where there was no relief. And I'm not gonna go specifically chronologically here, but I'm gonna talk like generally about specific things that happened in the years of the war. At first, the family would gather with the religious figures as well as like priests, like figures as in like crucifixes and rosaries and stuff. They would go room by room, blessing each room. Eventually, the demon started to reveal itself through the stench. And it almost never was the strongest in the blue room, which I think the demon did on purpose. The demon would appear in other rooms and make it seem like that's the room they should focus their energy.

• 59:12Corinne Vien?

  Lure them away from its den.

• 59:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. But they would sit there and pray until the smell went away. Blood-like stains started showing up on the walls and puddles of similar liquid would appear out of nowhere throughout the house. And at one point they got them tested and I can't remember what it ended up being, but it wasn't blood, but it looked like blood. And I wanna say it might've been amniotic fluid of some kind, which is also crazy.

• 59:36Corinne Vien?

  Given what was happening in that room.

• 59:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Of the room, yeah.

• 59:40Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god.

• 59:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Water faucets would turn on on their own and start flooding the house. This part, I don't know what it is about it, but it makes me laugh. The family started playing Passion of the Christ on repeat in the house, like literally never turned it off for years. The Passion of the Christ, Mel Gibson, The Passion of the Christ.

• 59:59Corinne Vien?

  Am I wrong in saying that that is one of the movie sets that also experienced a lot of wild stuff?

• 1:00:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I would not be surprised.

• 1:00:06Corinne Vien?

  I don't, I'm not sure that one's gonna help.

• 1:00:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It played on repeat for years.

• 1:00:11Corinne Vien?

  Oh wow.

• 1:00:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  All day, every day. They had it like automatically set to like, when it got to the end, it would replay.

• 1:00:17Corinne Vien?

  I mean, here's the thing, a lot of the religious stuff is not helping so far. Why not put on like a good vibes, like, I don't know.

• 1:00:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But this is what we say all the time.

• 1:00:25Corinne Vien?

  Have the holiday on repeat.

• 1:00:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is what we say all the time though, is like, if it's your intention, like intention is what matters the most. If you're religious, then use that to help combat things. But if you're not religious, like it's probably not gonna do much. But they're super religious. But Bob Cranmer was ready to fight the war.

• 1:00:45Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 1:00:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So then Bob starts to realize that the entity is coming from the blue room and that was like trying to distract them for a while. It's the room where the doctor performed the procedures, so he starts to put his focus on the room. Every night after work, he would sit in the room and pray. Some nights, he would pray for hours until the sulfuric demonic stench faded away. And other nights, he would feel so weak, he had to retreat. There was a point where he would literally set a cot, he set a cot up in different rooms and would like pray for hours, take a nap, wake up, pray for hours, take a nap, wake up, pray for hours, go to work, come home, sit in the cot, like, it's all he did. And then the turmoil in the family is getting worse and worse. His daughter Jessica got pregnant while she was in high school.

• 1:01:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Lisa, I think Bob found a $20,000 credit card bill that Lisa was hiding.

• 1:01:33Corinne Vien?

  $20,000?

• 1:01:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bobby and Charlie-

• 1:01:35Corinne Vien?

  And this was like 20 years ago, too.

• 1:01:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 1:01:38Corinne Vien?

  That's a-

• 1:01:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:39Corinne Vien?

  Geez.

• 1:01:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bobby and Charlie are dealing with a lot of mental health issues and self-harm. In November of 2004, Father Ron calls and tells Bob, hey, just so you know, the next couple of weeks, things are gonna be really quiet over the holidays. But don't be fooled. When the holidays are over, it's gonna come back and it's gonna be more intense.

• 1:01:57Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 1:01:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure enough, they have a beautiful, nice holiday, beg it to relax. But January 13th, the hauntings continue. Bob Cranmer comes home on January 13th, 2005. He is exhausted, he wants to go to sleep, and at this point, he's now sleeping on the third floor. Him and Lisa are not doing great. Actually, wait, oh my God, I almost forgot about this. There was a point in the story where Father Ron advised Bob, and again, this is coming from Bob, right? So I'm like, did Father Ron say this, or is Bob writing this? Father Ron tells Bob that he and Lisa need to have as much sex as possible because it will like convince the demon that you're doing well in your relationship because the demon feeds off of like them not being together and being at odds with one another.

• 1:02:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So apparently Father Ron tells Bob to have lots of sex with Lisa. And then Bob tells Lisa, we have to have lots of sex. And I'm like, hmm, or is that Bob being like, hey, we're not having enough sex and I want sex?

• 1:02:54Corinne Vien?

  Interesting.

• 1:02:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anyway, in theory, I get it-

• 1:02:57Corinne Vien?

  I would argue to the priest, like, okay, but like, there's a lot more to connect people instead of just like a- To me, that seems like the priest is desperate to see someone have sex.

• 1:03:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's not watching.

• 1:03:10Corinne Vien?

  Who knows?

• 1:03:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anyway, so at this point, January 13th, 2005, he's sleeping on the third floor because him and Lisa are not great. As he's climbing the stairs, he sees blood spattered all over the walls and doors, like floor to ceiling. And there is a photo from the book, but it's like not a great photo-

• 1:03:27Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 1:03:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Of like the blood drips.

• 1:03:29Corinne Vien?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Over the following weeks, the blood shows up more and more. More religious items are broken, bent, destroyed, moved. Bob calls Father Ron. Father Ron says, don't panic, this is just the demon trying to lay claim of the house, you need to keep fighting. Bob becomes militant. He is spending hours, like literally, if he's not at work, he is praying and fighting the demon. He's like literally going around the house with a Bible, repeating passages. All the while, Passion of the Christ is still playing on repeat.

• 1:03:57Corinne Vien?

  In cases like this, where there's blood, I'm just, I just, like, who's, who's blood? We never ever get the answer.

• 1:04:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We don't.

• 1:04:05Corinne Vien?

  There's no DNA matching of the blood, like, whose blood is this?

• 1:04:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. Bob Cranmer then gets connected to a paranormal investigative team, the team that would eventually become the cast of the show Paranormal State, which I've never-

• 1:04:18Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 1:04:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ryan Gruhl, something like that. But this team would come assist in the battle against the demon of Brownsville Road. They and Father Mike come to the house to investigate, and their investigation leads them to believe that the demonic force is actually lurking in the closet where the hauntings first began, where that light fixture was. So-

• 1:04:35Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so not the blue room closet, where the little-

• 1:04:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They think that like, there's a layer that the demon like hides out in, behind the closet.

• 1:04:41Corinne Vien?

  Which is so weird, like, what is, what do they do when they go back there? They like finally sit and take a rest, close their eyes for a minute?

• 1:04:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bob Cranmer decides to rip open the wall to see what's behind it.

• 1:04:51Corinne Vien?

  The layer.

• 1:04:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And there was one account that said that they were like children's toys found back there, which is crazy because it's never been open, like-

• 1:05:00Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:05:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  How'd this get there?

• 1:05:01Corinne Vien?

  That'd be creepy.

• 1:05:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In the book, it's like a massive space filled with like a lot of like coal-like substance and that the air was super heavy. I guess there was a story where the family cat, curious as a cat, ran in once they had like taken off the, the wall, sprinted out immediately, and ever since that night, had to either sleep in the room with Bob or Lisa or would choose to sit outside, like stare at the house from afar.

• 1:05:26Corinne Vien?

  Wow. How big of a space is this? Is this like, they just gained a bonus room?

• 1:05:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Uh-

• 1:05:31Corinne Vien?

  Or it's just like enough where you're like, oh, that's weird that you didn't notice that there was a thick wall?

• 1:05:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It was bigger than they thought, but it's not like, oh, yay, we're getting a bonus room. We're getting, oh, this is where a demon lurks. So they believe this to be the layer of the entity. One night, while the paranormal group was at the house reciting prayer, trying to fight the entity, one of the team members, Adam, was, all of a sudden, his head starts bleeding. And they watched like a scratch mark form on his head and literally draws blood. There was also a story where the same guy, Adam, went into like a trance and saw letters appear before him. And it was S A T H I, which I think is a, there is like a demonic goddess in some culture that has that name, and it is specifically around the murdering of children.

• 1:06:17Corinne Vien?

  Oh, so the children's trinkets in the walls and stuff?

• 1:06:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then also like the abortions and things that were happening. There's just like all these pieces that no one really understands how it all comes together.

• 1:06:27Corinne Vien?

  Right, and it's also hard because like, given their religion, we can assume some of their views on some of the history of the house?

• 1:06:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 1:06:34Corinne Vien?

  And so while many of us might not agree with that perspective-

• 1:06:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I do think-

• 1:06:38Corinne Vien?

  This could be adding to, like, are they adding the lore?

• 1:06:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And also, I don't know 100% the story of Dr. M. We'll talk about some in a little bit, but this is also like a doctor providing something that perhaps was not accessible at all for other people or for people during that time. And when you are forced to do illegal abortions because it's not accessible publicly, unfortunately, a lot of deaths do happen.

• 1:07:05Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:07:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So I think there's just like sadness and heaviness that could have happened if that were the case. Okay, at this point, Jessica Kramer has her baby boy. His name is Colin, and given that she's so young and like the, she got pregnant in high school, the boy that she got pregnant with was very young, had no interest in being a father. She's a single mother. She moves into the third floor of the house with her child, and poor baby Colin starts to become a target of the demonic entity. It gets so bad that Bob has to find a townhouse for Jessica and Colin to move to. And they do temporarily, but again, this like fighting the demon is happening for like two to three years in such an intense way, like the praying and everything. But eventually Jessica and Colin move back to the house when he's maybe two and a half years old. Again, this war between the Kramers and the demon has been going on for years.

• 1:07:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And again, there's some days where the demon doesn't bother them, the other days where it's like way worse. So Jessica calls down one day to her father and tells him that she's sending two and a half year old Colin downstairs to spend time with Bob and Lisa. Bob just continues doing what he's doing, and then two minutes later, he hears what sounds like Colin gasping for air as if he's being strangled. So he sprints upstairs to find Colin, standing in front of the blue room, horrified, gasping for air, eyes bulging, face in terror. Little Colin, two and a half years old, doesn't have much words. He says, "Monster, monster, look at me." And this experience would traumatize young Colin so badly that when he was older,

• 1:08:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  so when the book was published, I think he was 12, Colin was now 12 years old at that time. He still remembers that moment so vividly and has said that a black monster lunged at him from within the doorway.

• 1:08:45Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my God. Oh, that would anger me so bad. And I know that that's probably what the spirit wants, like the entity wants to feed off of the energy, but I'd be like, you're going down, man.

• 1:08:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, Bob, furious, enters the blue room, yells, "I've had enough of you, you coward going after a child." And Bob swears he heard the entity laugh at him. Soon, Jessica got married and her husband moves into the house, and so like, it's like the stepfather to Colin. He has no idea that this house is haunted, but he learns very quickly. One night, he's walking up the stairs to check on Colin, who's sleeping in his crib. It's dark, just the moon is lighting the room, and he sees a silhouette standing over Colin's bed. It's bent forward, looking down at the child in the crib. He assumes it's Jessica, so he whispers, he's like, "What are you doing?" The figure doesn't answer, doesn't turn around, but instead walks into the wall and disappears.

• 1:09:37Corinne Vien?

  This is just so horrifying, and they stay in this house for way too long.

• 1:09:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They still own it.

• 1:09:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Around this same time, Bob's youngest, Charlie, is in his room practicing guitar when a crucifix that was on the wall is thrown to the ground. And so he stops playing his music and he's like, what? He goes to investigate and where the crucifix had been hanging, there's now drops of blood on the wall. And as he's sitting there staring at it, he hears what sounds like nails dragging across a chalkboard. That same night, Bob is laying in bed and gets scratched on the leg hard enough that it wakes him up. He felt like he was jabbed with a needle. And he described the entity's behavior during this whole time as almost like watching something throw a full-blown tantrum, frustrated, lashing out at whoever was closest, which Bob took as a sign that he was actually winning.

• 1:10:25Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, the demon was trying to throw every last ounce that he had. And Bob spent a lot of time during all of this watching documentaries. And he said the one thing he always noticed was that people tended to move out of the house. And so he did question, or he says in the book, he questioned a lot of like, am I doing the wrong thing by staying here? But again, he felt like he had to fight this war, fight this battle and win it.

• 1:10:50Corinne Vien?

  Well, yeah, that's kind of what I was gonna say. It's like, they have proof from everything that they've been told and figured out so far, that it's not about them, it's about the house. So if they just moved, this wouldn't happen.

• 1:11:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:11:03Corinne Vien?

  Like, they could just leave and be done.

• 1:11:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure. So now, for nearly 18 years, the Cranmer family has been dealing with these hauntings, big and small. By 2006, they had been actively fighting this war with the demon for over two years. The family has truly nearly been torn apart. Not a single person escaped without some level of haunting and psychological torment, I could say. Even the two priests who had been helping Bob were fighting with one another and like experiencing turmoil. And now, in 2006, at least two years after this fight and war with the demon really started, two years of passion of the Christ and endless prayer and mass being held inside the house, the demonic haunting finally came to an end. And similar to so many other stories that we have shared on this podcast, it was not

• 1:11:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  dramatic, it was not this big movie scene where people are screaming or bodies are contorting. No. Instead, in February of 2006, the family, the priests, and the pets all go down into the basement of 3406 Brownsville Road, and they have a mass, like a full mass where you take the euphoric blood of Christ, blood and body of Christ. And at the end of this prayer, Bob heard a whimper, like truly a whimper. And he said that with that sound, he just knew that he had won. And truly, since February of 2006, the house has been quiet, the energy is lighter. Bob and Lisa even moved into the blue room and made that their primary bedroom.

• 1:12:28Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 1:12:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And stating that it now feels like the most peaceful room in the house.

• 1:12:32Corinne Vien?

  So it's a bed and breakfast, but they still live there full-time in the blue room?

• 1:12:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They, after the haunting.

• 1:12:37Corinne Vien?

  Oh, after the haunting, they did.

• 1:12:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They don't live there anymore. And this is the thing, the story doesn't end here, because it was not until after these hauntings ended, after Bob Cranmer won the war, that he actually pieced together the history of the house and finally understood why he was so drawn to the house ever since he was a child. So, after the haunting subsided, Bob spoke in depth with Father Ron, who finally revealed that the reason he knew everything was because he had been working with Connie. And then Connie and Bob got into contact, and Connie helped him put the pieces together. Connie asked if there was a big oak tree in the yard, which there was. And again, Connie had never been to this house. And Connie went on to say that she saw the image of a man with a big knife, and was led

• 1:13:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  to believe that a mother and her three children were brutally murdered on the land by Native Americans during the Northwest Indian War back in 1792. That this was the first time a mother and children were brutally murdered and died on that land. She then went on to say that when the house was eventually built, in the early 1900s, this Dr. M was performing procedures inside the house, specifically inside the blue room. And tragically, many, many women and children die during these procedures. And maybe the most surprising piece of information that Connie shared is that the real reason that Bob Cranmer was drawn to the house, the reason he was the one that had to fight the evil, was because Bob Cranmer had lived another life, and he had died in that house. He was one of the children who died in the house.

• 1:14:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And that his destiny was to return to the house and restore peace to the home. And in the book, Bob says he's not sure how he felt about the reincarnation piece of it, but he couldn't deny that he felt like there was some much deeper connection between him and the house. And that ever since he moved into the house, he would have this reoccurring dream of a woman. And Connie could describe the woman to a T, and said that it was his mother who also died in the house.

• 1:14:32Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 1:14:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And that she was trying to help guide him to fight the demon.

• 1:14:36Corinne Vien?

  Okay. It's like, I want to believe everything that Connie says, but like, for some reason, I don't believe much that he says.

• 1:14:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know, I know. Bob is a really polarizing character. He's done interviews on podcasts. I didn't listen, because I read the book.

• 1:14:50Corinne Vien?

  Right, yeah, you already saw.

• 1:14:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was like, I've got your, I've got your P O B. But it would kind of make sense if that were true, and he was connected to this house from a past life and died there in some way, it would make sense that he was so drawn to it.

• 1:15:02Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because it is crazy that from childhood.

• 1:15:05Corinne Vien?

  It's weird being told like, you're the chosen one.

• 1:15:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think Bob wants to be the chosen one.

• 1:15:09Corinne Vien?

  That's, that's kind of where I was going. And also, it's like, he, I don't want to be mean, but like, he also chose because he felt that he should be the one to win over demon and have that title, to subject his family to years and years of years of a traumatic haunting.

• 1:15:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:15:30Corinne Vien?

  To the point where his children were extremely unsafe.

• 1:15:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Agreed.

• 1:15:34Corinne Vien?

  So, I don't think that this is some amazing reveal.

• 1:15:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No. And I do think, like, in a lot of ways, it feels too perfect. Like, if this was a storybook, like, that you tied a nice neat little bow. The end, you get all your answers. And I will say that in his book, Bob Cranmer does claim that he found a lot of evidence to back up all of this. The first thing he found was a letter dated March 31st, 1792, that does reference a wife and three children who were murdered during the Northwest Indian War, and that the husband who was out of town came and found them and buried them.

• 1:16:09Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 1:16:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So he believes buried beneath the tree. And then he secondly found records of a real physician named James Merton Clay Mahon, who practiced medicine in the Pittsburgh area and was said to be a rough, profane man who drank heavily and lived in the house, and also used to own the other house that's haunted on Brownsville Road. And like, apparently, the people who lived in that house used to see, like, a cane and white gloves moving through that house. And this doctor used to wear that, I don't know. And then, on top of all of this, Connie and Bob believed the bodies of the woman and three children who were murdered in the war were buried beneath that big oak tree in the front of the house.

• 1:16:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bob Cranmer did a radar scan and found evidence of a four-person grave having had existed there. I think the bodies had been, like, moved, but like, there was evidence of graves having been there, which reminds me of the Conjuring. And there are photos, which also, the photos are from the book, so don't judge me for taking them like this, they don't look great. But yeah, Connie also told Bob that those who died during the doctor's procedures were disposed of in the backyard after having been burnt in the basement, which is like, why they could find that chair or moved by the wood burner.

• 1:17:21Corinne Vien?

  Oh, okay, that makes sense. And also, yeah, like, they would dispose of the bodies if this was some secretive thing.

• 1:17:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then there was also a point that reminded me so much of practical magic, because I guess there was like, a rose bush that kept appearing, like, growing out of like, one spot of the ground, like, no matter how many times that they got rid of it, which reminds me of practical magic.

• 1:17:41Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:17:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But apparently, that's where the bodies from the procedures gone wrong would be buried.

• 1:17:47Corinne Vien?

  It's just weird that, like, the children were still targeted from this poltergeist, because it feels like the weird energy, I don't know, I just feel like, given how many women and children died here, he would think that there'd be a very protective energy around kids.

• 1:18:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But the demon was too strong and wanted to continue the trauma. Like, this is why it feels like haunting a Phil House.

• 1:18:05Corinne Vien?

  It does.

• 1:18:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because it feels so psychological.

• 1:18:08Corinne Vien?

  I was thinking about that, and I was like, but you grab your kids and you leave the house. You run away.

• 1:18:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So then, again, going to like, this being such a neat little bow, in Bob's book, he says that he found all these records. Even I went looking for that letter from 1792 and didn't have any luck, and no one outside of Bob's own account has been able to find that letter to confirm it. Dr. Mahon's family, like, he has ancestors who are still alive, and they've come forth with records showing that he was living somewhere else entirely during that period of time where Bob claims those procedures were happening.

• 1:18:41Corinne Vien?

  Right. Yeah, like, even when we did the deep dive in the Conjuring house and talked to Andrea Parent and went to the Rhode Island Historical Society and like, discovered some things, it still isn't super tidy.

• 1:18:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, no, right.

• 1:18:56Corinne Vien?

  This is like, too tidy.

• 1:18:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, and that's why I think it's important to look at, did other people find evidence? Because it's too perfect if Bob can tell the whole story.

• 1:19:04Corinne Vien?

  And that's also why I asked if any of his children participated in telling their version of events at any point in time.

• 1:19:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not that I could find. I do think one of the ghost shows did interview multiple members of the family. But Bob has always been the, like, carrier of the story. So, just because there maybe aren't hard facts and records, doesn't mean that bad things didn't happen in this house, or people didn't die on this land. What we do know for sure is that every person who lived in this house, even before the Cranmers, experienced hauntings.

• 1:19:36Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So the hauntings did predate the Cranmers living there. The McHenrys fled, they refused to ever speak of it. Then the owners before the McHenrys confirmed that they did experience hauntings in the house. And it wasn't until the Cranmers moved in with their very dysfunctional family that the demon was able to truly grow stronger. And despite Bob's ultimate victory over the demon like he claims, the Cranmer family has forever been traumatized and deeply impacted by the experiences. Bobby Jr., who was the center of it all and the target of the hauntings, has battled depression and anxiety in his entire life.

• 1:20:11Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He did apparently get somewhat better after moving out, but I think he also just sought a lot of help. Um, when the book was first published, he was married with kids. Jessica became a medical office administrator and had two sons, Colin and Thomas. Charlie, the youngest, became a licensed massage therapist. And sadly, in March of 2015, Bob and Lisa's son, David, unexpectedly died. And despite Bob and Lisa's marriage surviving all like the turmoil and debt and hauntings, after David's death, they got divorced.

• 1:20:42Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 1:20:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In November of 2019, Bob opened 3406 Brownsville Road as the Brownsville Road House Bed and Breakfast, which is still open today and you can book a room. You can even stay in the Blue Room. But here the, here's the-

• 1:20:56Corinne Vien?

  But it's not haunted anymore.

• 1:20:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And there are-

• 1:20:58Corinne Vien?

  You're staying in the-

• 1:20:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And there are two rules. Absolutely no Ouija boards and no ghost hunting because Bob does not want to stir anything up. Because truly since February 2006, not a single haunting has been reported.

• 1:21:09Corinne Vien?

  So it's just the little whimper and then-

• 1:21:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yep.

• 1:21:11Corinne Vien?

  Silence.

• 1:21:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bob has said, "The message that I'm putting forward is the house is now fine. It's not a crazy place to be. It's nice, it's welcoming. My grandkids sleep here." And that is the story of the demon of Brownsville Road.

• 1:21:26Corinne Vien?

  Damn. It's always complicated when things are a little too tidy and when you're not entirely sure about how you feel about the narrator and that there's only one voice publicly coming through.

• 1:21:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:37Corinne Vien?

  And we believe almost everything.

• 1:21:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I do really believe that there were hauntings happening in this house.

• 1:21:44Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I just think it got so bad because there was so much other stuff that they were not dealing with. And it's so much easier to now focus on the hauntings because that's like absurd and crazy when you're sweeping all the like horrible family drama under the rug.

• 1:22:01Corinne Vien?

  Well, and you referenced the haunting of Hill House. And I feel like a good example of this too could be the Red Room in the Haunting of Hill House. Like every family member's perspective and experience in that house was different. It's a different story, it's a different house, different experiences. So like, maybe this is entirely his. This is the story the house told him and others who he-

• 1:22:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And the house has been telling him stories ever since he was a kid.

• 1:22:25Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, man.

• 1:22:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then it's also like-

• 1:22:28Corinne Vien?

  Be careful when you're being called to a house.

• 1:22:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, it's also interesting because like, because this is his story and he wrote it, was he always called to the house or did he start to believe that?

• 1:22:39Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then has kind of changed the narrative-

• 1:22:42Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:22:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  -to fit his own narrative.

• 1:22:44Corinne Vien?

  Huh. Like, did he manifest?

• 1:22:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Who knows?

• 1:22:47Corinne Vien?

  Getting to live in that house.

• 1:22:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But you too can stay there and it's not haunted anymore.

• 1:22:52Corinne Vien?

  Oh, man. Okay, well, I do have a listener's story to read. It's called "The Unenchanting Demon Astral Dream That Causes Anxious Poops."

• 1:23:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Unenchanting and anxious poops. Okay, great.

• 1:23:04Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fantastic.

• 1:23:06Corinne Vien?

  There it is. Hola, the title, well, I don't know. I thought, what could I write that maybe would pop for a reader who wants to listen to this?

• 1:23:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cleansing the colon.

• 1:23:16Corinne Vien?

  Cleansing the colon. Okay, to give a little background to this story, I have always felt that I'm very intuitive and sensitive to the spiritual world. Later confirmed by psychic readings, I genuinely feel like my experiences as I have them are real and very meaningful. I still have a long way to go in terms of figuring out my so-called abilities and what that entails. But rural Ohio does not really have that sort of vibe.

• 1:23:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hey, Ohio's close to Pittsburgh.

• 1:23:42Corinne Vien?

  There we go.

• 1:23:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Another connection.

• 1:23:44Corinne Vien?

  All the peeps in this area are super religious for the most part and not at all how I grew up. Okay, so it's 2020. I am pregnant with my third human. I'm 26 years old. Which now looking back as a 32-year-old, I'm like, girl, you could have chilled. But, oh, well, more free time for dark tourism in my 50s, I guess. So like any other night, I do my daily routines and my kid shenanigans. I fall asleep easily, no outliers that evening. My two boys, who were six and four at the time, come in around midnight asking to sleep with us because they're scared, also not uncommon. So we let them in, they fall back asleep. And we lived in the armpit of the city, so we didn't really have many responsible surrounding neighbors, if you catch my drift.

• 1:24:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hmm.

• 1:24:28Corinne Vien?

  And their bedroom window in our townhouse was facing the street. So naturally, I chalked up my kid's fear to be relating to some, maybe riffraff outside. I was definitely not thinking ghosts. Which, looking back, I really should have investigated that a little bit more because my kids still talk about new ghostly experiences that they had in just a couple of years that we lived there.

• 1:24:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, so you're still learning about things?

• 1:24:49Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Okay, so now it's 3:00 AM. I'm in a deep sleep. I'm at my grandparents' house. Much of my childhood was spent here, so a lot of the dreams have their house as the setting. And in the dream, I'm standing on the deck, as we call it. But think a really large three-season room. To my right are concrete steps that lead you inside the house. And behind me to the left are two empty reclining chairs with a small coffee table between them. My father's to my left, which this is his parents' house. But in reality, my father is deceased. And we had a very tumultuous relationship as he struggled with addiction. He passed in 2017.

• 1:25:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sorry.

• 1:25:23Corinne Vien?

  Sidebar, I'm a teacher with a paraprofessional. And sometimes they reassign your parapro, which means you may not always get super personal with the one that you have that year. Well, one year I had this parapro that could never remember that my dad was dead. And I would go visit my family in Maryland or Delaware or that sort of area and come back and she'd be like, "Did you get to see your dad? How's he doing?" And eventually I got so tired of correcting her, I just said, "He's about the same." Because he was-

• 1:25:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He was.

• 1:25:50Corinne Vien?

  He was an urn on the coffee table.

• 1:25:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:52Corinne Vien?

  So-

• 1:25:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's interesting that they would specifically ask about the dad.

• 1:25:56Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, it almost feels like the energy-

• 1:25:58Corinne Vien?

  Not like how's your grandparents.

• 1:25:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:00Corinne Vien?

  In the dream, we're having a conversation, but the context of this conversation isn't really what I remembered when I wake up. So while comforting to see him in my dream, the interaction in itself doesn't come with any significance.

• 1:26:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hmm.

• 1:26:13Corinne Vien?

  My grandparents were inside the house. My granada was cooking for, something for us to eat. And when she's done cooking, she comes out about halfway up the concrete steps to let us know that the food's ready. My dad takes a step back to get a better look as she is talking. And he states that we'll be in soon to eat. And then starts talking about my son's recent ear tube procedure with her.

• 1:26:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 1:26:34Corinne Vien?

  I walk around granada to go inside the house and get my plate. I come back out and I join in on their conversation. I sit on the sofa across from the steps and I place my plate on the coffee table. The, both of them are standing on the upper level of the deck, which is now to my left. Right to the left, to the left, everything you want in the box. Ah, ah, ah. I stand up, I put my plate in the sink that's on the deck and I tell them that I'll be right back out. I walk towards the steps, hunky-dory dream, until I hear a noise and I turn my head. And standing right in front of me is a demon and not a liquor. Her skin, if you want to call it that, was all black. And she has jaundice-colored eyes and rotten, thin teeth like pine needles,

• 1:27:17Corinne Vien?

  horns in place of her earlobes. She gives me this eerie grin with teeth clearly not covered by dental insurance. And we stand in this place for a moment, locking eyes, and I'm processing what I'm seeing. And then I turn around to begin to run and she starts chasing me and she's not letting up. I suddenly have a sensation that I'm flying or floating as a means of travel. And in no time, I'm back in my bed. No demon to be found. Phew, it was just a nightmare.

• 1:27:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or was it something more and you weren't supposed to be in that space?

• 1:27:49Corinne Vien?

  It is interesting because it feels like they're like real ti- like her relatives are real time, like discussing things that are happening in that-

• 1:27:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Actually happening.

• 1:27:58Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I look over to my left, I see that my husband and my boys are still asleep. Dogs are unbothered. And now that I'm awake and I'm pretty startled, I scoot back to the headboard and grip onto my pillow like you do. And I'm taking a couple of deep breaths to calm down before drifting off to sleep again. I slide back down into the covers. I glance over to the open doorway of our bedroom. And beneath the nightlight stands the demon.

• 1:28:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Beautiful.

• 1:28:23Corinne Vien?

  Miss beauty school dropout just grinning from horn to horn. She disappears, but internally, I'm like, holy shit. I shake my head, I take a breath, I tell myself, "It's just a dream, it's all good." I take a drink of water for good measure. Relief. I start to drift off again and suddenly, something beneath the covers grips my ankles and tugs me towards the edge of the bed. I kick, I fight, which ultimately leads to being let go. And everyone is still asleep next to me. Everyone, unbothered. But when the fuckin' fuck was that madness? Was it real? Is this like some sort of loop dream? Like, how many licks does it take to get to the center of the tutti pop?

• 1:29:07Corinne Vien?

  They may never know. And I hate not knowing. Obviously, I don't go back to sleep for another 44 years.

• 1:29:15Corinne Vien?

  I open the laptop, I play New Girl.

• 1:29:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yep, good choice.

• 1:29:18Corinne Vien?

  And then I play New Girl until it's time to get up for worky-work. I still don't know what happened because I felt so awake during that later experience. I know someone grabbed me. I have not had an astral-like dream since. But if I ever do come across yellow eyes again, I'll hand her a list of astral dental referrals. Keep up the ghoulie work, I'll see you on the other side. XX Meg.

• 1:29:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It really does sound like people's experience is having sleep paralysis, or not sleep paralysis, astral projection and then something is trying to take over your body. Like, it does feel like she went to an astral plane of some kind where her loved ones or deceased loved ones are gathering and the demon wanted to take her soul.

• 1:29:59Corinne Vien?

  Like, the fact that it's chasing her, it's grinning, like it's having enjoyment from this-

• 1:30:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Your waking life.

• 1:30:05Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it's still standing there, waiting for you to notice it. Oh, trying to pull you out of the bed. And this is one of those things that I hate too, where it's like, unless you know your kids and your husband are like the deepest of sleepers and they're gonna get through anything and everything, it would be extremely unsettling to experience that and be like, "Why did no one notice that I was literally being ripped out of the bed?" Like, the covers, that intense movement, like, you don't, that doesn't startle you awake in any way?

• 1:30:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It wouldn't startle me awake, I don't think.

• 1:30:31Corinne Vien?

  Really?

• 1:30:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, like, I've also like had people who sleep in bed with me who toss and turn all night and I don't wake up to it.

• 1:30:37Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I'm an extremely light sleeper. I wake to everything.

• 1:30:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I wouldn't.

• 1:30:42Corinne Vien?

  Like, a branch snaps a mile away and I'll wake up. Oh, man.

• 1:30:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Crazy.

• 1:30:48Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. But what I did appreciate was that we get a female demon here.

• 1:30:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  True. Yeah.

• 1:30:54Corinne Vien?

  Miss beauty school dropout.

• 1:30:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I'll be one of them amongst the ranks one day.

• 1:31:00Corinne Vien?

  Do you get to choose your character? Like, when you become a demon, do you get to pick what you look like?

• 1:31:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I hope you get that in all regards in terms of the paranormal. But I don't know that you do.

• 1:31:10Corinne Vien?

  Because I do kind of like the pine needle teeth. Reminds me of a whale.

• 1:31:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Well, um, thank you for joining us for another creepy episode this month of October. We love you all very much. If you have any paranormal experiences, please email them to us at [email protected]. If you want episodes one week early and ad-free, you can join us on Patreon, where you have lots of other bonus content too. Witch Class, Book Club, Campfire Stories, where you can share your ghost story with us live every week. And then we have YouTube if you want to watch the episodes. And then please tell all your friends and all your family about our show.

• 1:31:47Corinne Vien?

  We love you. And we love Jamie Ryan, who edits and produces this podcast.

• 1:31:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 1:31:50Corinne Vien?

  And we will see all of you on the other side. Ooh, I did it weird this time.

• 1:31:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, that was strange.

• 1:31:58Corinne Vien?

  Sorry.

• 1:31:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bye.