Money Rules Everyone Should Know

In this episode, Emma sits down with financial educator and entrepreneur and everyone’s RichBFF, Vivian Tu to unpack why women are still the least likely to talk openly about money and what it ultimately costs them. Vivian grew up translating bills for her immigrant parents and then went on to earn six figures on Wall Street before walking away from a $625K salary to build something on her own terms. She knows exactly what financial confidence looks like from the inside and what keeps most women from getting there. Vivian shares: How to negotiate a raise and actually win it Why stability has to come before wealth (and how to build it) The quiet ways lifestyle inflation erodes your progress How to think strategically about benefits, taxes, and retirement The mindset shift that separates earners from builders Why women talking openly about money changes everything This isn't a conversation about becoming rich. It's about becoming someone who knows what they're worth and stops leaving it on the table.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  So darlings, today we're continuing our Career Girls Guide, a series that is focused on giving you guys practical tools to navigate every stage of your career. Now, we've talked about how to get the job. We've talked about how to advocate for yourself. And now, we're going to talk about what happens after the paycheck hits your account. Because managing money isn't just about budgeting, it's about making decisions that give you more freedom, more confidence and more options in your career. Financial literacy shapes how long you stay, when you leave and how boldly you bet on yourself. Now, to help us break this down, I'm joined by the incredible Vivian Tu, businesswoman, New York Times bestselling author and founder of Your Rich BFF.

• 0:54Emma Grede?

  The Start With Yourself Tour kicks off on April 15th in New York City. Tickets are on sale now at emigre.com.

• 1:02Emma Grede?

  Hi, my darling Vivian.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.

• 1:06Emma Grede?

  I'm so happy to have you. I cannot tell you. I have to say, I mentioned this to you briefly earlier, but before you came, I did a little like, you know, what do you guys want to know about, you know, finances and savings and taxes and investments? I have never had more people come back to me in a short amount of time than ever. So I'm just going to let the viewers decide what we're talking about today.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:31Emma Grede?

  Because it's so wild how many questions people have about money.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  100%.

• 1:36Emma Grede?

  It's nuts. It just really kind of got me going. So listen, before we talk about money systems, before we talk about the strategies, I've been so fascinated as I've been doing my research on you with all that you've accomplished and all that you've done. But your start was really interesting because I realized you actually got like familiar with money because of your parents and their inability to be able to do that for themselves. Will you talk about that a little bit? Because I think that people find it entirely fascinating that at this young age, you know so much, but it started early, right?

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so my parents are immigrants. I was first generation, born here. I am the only child, only daughter, no pressure. And it really felt like my parents... Felt like being in America was such a gift that they were just content to survive. They were gonna work hard, put their heads down, and hopefully the universe would give them what they deserve. But we all know that's not really how that works. We had to deal with the American financial system. That included speaking to claims adjusters, the insurance people on the phone. It meant calling medical practices to be like, what is this on my bill? It meant trying to negotiate for raises and promotions. And the problem was, English wasn't my parents' native language.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  And so, all of a sudden, I'm eight years old, on the phone, and it's like, "Yeah, my mom definitely doesn't want to pay this on the medical bill." And I'm like, "I mean, Amy, like me." Like pretending to be my mom. And I feel like I learned very quickly what it really took to be a good negotiator. What it took to actually understand money. And I'll never forget this. When I was, I believe it was end of middle school, early high school, I went to the mall with a girlfriend. And we both went to a very popular, hot teen store. And we got these completely distressed jeans. They were more whole than jeans. And I came home and I was so excited to have these. And my mom found the receipt of how much they cost in the bag.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  And it turned into World War III. My mom was so angry with me. She said, "You don't understand the value of a dollar. You have no idea how hard your father and I have to work to even like make ends meet, to make sure that you have a future that we're saving for your college education, that we can put, you know, put food on the table." And all I could think as a young person to say was, "Well, you know, my friend got a pair too." And my mom looked me dead in the eye and she said, "Well, her dad's a lawyer, and her family, like, you know, they're millionaires, we're not." And it was a stark reminder that we all have different stations in life. And because we didn't have certain amounts of money, I couldn't have certain things. And I wasn't deserving of those beautiful ripped jeans.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  And I wasn't deserving of certain things. And it was... Painful. I ran upstairs. I slammed the door, you know, angsty teen stuff. But I made a decision that day. I was like, I'm gonna be so good with money. I'm gonna be rich and no one is ever going to tell me that I can't have ripped jeans again.

• 4:38Emma Grede?

  Wow. I mean, that's pretty powerful stuff.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:41Emma Grede?

  And so what happened from there? Because I've kind of tracked your career, which is so interesting. And I think there's such a big difference between knowing about money and feeling confident with money. And it's interesting that that exposure, because for some people, that can lead to such kind of like an inability to process money. You're like, you've got all of these relationships that your parents held of money and you take those on as your own. But you kind of did something very different. Like you decided to learn about it. And I'm like, I'm just very curious as to where that part of you comes from.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  I think it just came because of being in the right place at the right time, if I'm honest. My parents instilled in me very early that in this country, education was really our biggest shot at socio-economic mobility. If I wanted to have a great life, I was gonna have to be a really good student. And I was. I was the valedictorian of my high school. I end up going to the University of Chicago. It's an incredibly competitive institution. And junior year rolls around and I'm like, oh no, what am I gonna do with the rest of my life? I look around and a lot of my peers were recruiting for Wall Street jobs. I want to sit here and tell you it was this amazing vision that came to me. I know. I literally was just like, well, if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  And so I start doing the exact same things because I'm not a leader, I'm a follower. And I start interviewing. I end up having the good fortune of getting an internship at JP Morgan on the equities desk as a trader. And after that summer, it was crazy. It's an incredibly competitive program. You get hired with a number of other interns, but you all know there's only one full-time seat. So me and two other boys were sitting there. We're basically trying to elbow each other out for this seat. It became clear halfway through the summer that they weren't really gonna work on the desk. They bring in two more interns, so I'm now competing with two different people. At the end of the summer, five interns rotated through that desk and I was the only one who got that final offer. And that's, that's what we talk about Wall Street. Like you eat what you kill. It's a dog-eat-dog world.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  I got that job and it felt like all of the puzzle pieces clicked into place. Not only was I going to get that sexy, you know, job where I got to live in New York City and make good money, really good money, but I also ended up getting a mentor. And I think that is truly the greatest thing that working on Wall Street ever gave me. My first manager, she was an Asian-American woman. I worked with thirty-plus other white men and her. And she was the first rich Asian woman I had ever seen in my entire life.

• 7:10Emma Grede?

  Oh, it's amazing.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  And she would walk in to the office with a new designer bag every day. She had these Gucci stilettos that would click-clack on the marble. And she owned her apartment. She had a dog. Do you have any idea how expensive it is to have a dog in New York City? I knew she had money. And for the first time, I saw a lived reality where I got to be a winner. And that only furthered my desire. And she took me under her wing, taught me so many things that I know now, but I feel so grateful because without her, I don't know if I would have this story.

• 7:41Emma Grede?

  Do you remember how much money you were making in that first job?

• 7:44Speaker 01

  First job, I believe my base salary was eighty or eighty-five thousand dollars. And the first bonus I got was ten thousand. So it's a little under six figures, but to me, it felt like a lifetime's worth of money. I'd never seen that kind of money before.

• 7:59Emma Grede?

  Of course not, never, ever. All right, so you're at JP Morgan. At some point, you move and you end up at BuzzFeed in some kind of sales role. And you massively are able to like up your salary, right? The stakes get like kinda high.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  You know, when I left JP Morgan, I got into a huge fight with my parents because they could no longer brag to the aunties on WeChat about me working at JP Morgan. And they were so against it. They were like, we got you this amazing education and now you're gonna go, what, like write quizzes for a living? Because they didn't even know what BuzzFeed was.

• 8:29Emma Grede?

  Write quizzes, I love that.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  What kind of cheese are you? And it was so silly, but ultimately, it ended up being the right move. And when I left BuzzFeed, I had made six hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars that year.

• 8:42Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  And that's a ton of money.

• 8:44Emma Grede?

  Ton of money, because we're going back, what, ten, ten years?

• 8:47Speaker 01

  So this was...

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Six years after graduation, probably 2022, I was making killer money. I'm feeling really confident now in my finances because not only did I get the education.

• 9:01Emma Grede?

  You were 22. Sorry, just to be clear, 2022.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  This is 2022.

• 9:04Emma Grede?

  2022, sorry.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  I was 27-ish, 26, 27, doing the quick maths there. But, you know, I just felt like when I got into this role and it became a sales role, it really was like if I can write one more email, if I can out hustle the person sitting next to me, if I can stay just an hour later, I will make more money. There was a direct correlation with how hard I worked with what I got paid. And I loved that because I felt like I had this confidence to be able to take a bet on myself and it ended up being the right move. I made all of that money, especially it came in chunky commission payments. It was a sales job. That's essentially what helped me buy my first home.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  It's really what helped me invest a ton into the market and it has changed the trajectory of my life.

• 9:51Emma Grede?

  Did you enjoy that job?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Loved it.

• 9:54Emma Grede?

  You did?

• 9:54Speaker 01

  I really did.

• 9:55Emma Grede?

  So you were making money, but you're also loving what you, what you did?

• 9:58Speaker 01

  I think I'm very much someone who loves what I'm good at. So like I like that feedback loop of winning. So there was a, um, a TV like system all around the office and every time you closed a deal, you had a deal song that would play.

• 10:13Emma Grede?

  What was your song?

• 10:14Speaker 01

  I can't even remember.

• 10:15Emma Grede?

  Oh, come on.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  It was probably like Money by Cardi B.

• 10:19Emma Grede?

  That works.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it works. But, you know, every time you close a deal, your song would play. And I remember there was one season, there was one quarter where I was basically closing a deal a day and people were like, dude, you need to change your song. Like we don't want to listen to this.

• 10:33Emma Grede?

  We're done with that song.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're like, we're done with this.

• 10:34Emma Grede?

  You're like, come on, it's Cardi.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  And I felt so proud.

• 10:37Emma Grede?

  Yeah, damn right you did.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Cause I could point to a scoreboard and say, I win. And I love that. I'm competitive.

• 10:44Emma Grede?

  You are super competitive.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  I'm an Aries, how can I not be?

• 10:48Emma Grede?

  I found it so interesting though, because again, there's we're here to talk about money. And I often complain on this podcast that I find it quite difficult to draw people into the conversation of money. How do you think, especially now that you've been working in this space for so long? And going back to kind of those early days when you were, you know, surrounded mostly by guys at JP Morgan. How much do you think has changed, especially as we start talking about women and finances? What are the differences that you see now?

• 11:15Speaker 01

  You know, I think from then to now, we have really democratized the financial conversation because social media. You know, you see people talking about loud budgeting or these trends of like, oh, I want a provider man. I have decided that I want a soft girl life, like I need to have certain things in my life to feel happy. This type of financial commitment. We didn't have those conversations even a decade ago when I started my career. I do think that there are still a lot of taboos around talking about money. But I encourage everyone who feels awkward about it to think about it this way. Why is it weird that two women like us are having this conversation and I'm giving you numbers?

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Versus imagine you're at a country club, two gentlemen, both maybe investors, maybe hedge fund managers, whatever. They're teeing off, they've got a cigar in hand, they're talking about their portfolios. They're talking about what their mortgage rates are and who did their mortgage at what bank? They're talking about what their kids' private school tuition costs. Why is it weird for us but not for them?

• 12:18Emma Grede?

  You tell me, because I hear these conversations every day, every day. I hear my husband on the phone and he's swipping and swatching information and he's giving tips and they're giving tips back. And they're, you know, trading contacts. And yet I so seldomly have similar conversations with my girlfriends. And in fact, I think I've become the person in my circle that people call when they want to have that conversation. When they've made a bit of money and they need a recommendation or they're thinking about investing. Because people know that I speak about it very freely. I have nothing to hide and I'm really happy to have the conversation and to share my information.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  But can I tell you where that comes from?

• 12:57Emma Grede?

  Oh, let's talk about it. Oh, yes, yes, you're, I'm right there with you.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Because men have told, have been told their entire lives that like, you should grow your power. You are allowed to have these conversations. But there are actually fewer women CEOs in the Fortune 500 than there are guys named John. You don't see Johns being like, oh, no, like, there's another John CEO. I can't be one. But we, as women, have been told that we have to be the only one, the only token woman CEO, the only winner, and that there's not enough white space for all of us to be in the C-suite. You should feel lucky that they picked you. Instead of arguing with other women, competing with them, trying to outdo them, we'd all be better off just trying to grab a larger slice of the pie from the gentleman.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  If we can have more seats in the C-suite, if we can have more women founders, more women CEOs, we don't have to feel that way. We get to do the exact same thing they do. We get to swap notes. We get to share. We get to have these conversations because it's very much you scratch my back, I scratch yours, but you can't be scratching other people's backs if we don't all come from positions of power.

• 14:06Emma Grede?

  So how do you think about opening up these types of conversations? Like, when you think about how you and your friends talk, like, what is the big difference? And how do you encourage people to actually get on the same wavelength as you are now?

• 14:20Speaker 01

  You know, I think it has to be a two-way street. There are certainly people in your life that you have money conversations with, and they are going to use it as a fact-finding mission to then twist the knife. They are going to ask you to borrow money. They are going to try to get ahead of you. They want to see you do well, but not better than them. They are going to use it as a way to hold it against you. You have to be able to identify who those people are, but then there's the alternative.

• 14:43Emma Grede?

  There's the alternative.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  There's the alternative. I'll give you an example. When I was at BuzzFeed, I had a girl that I was best friends with. She worked on the same team as me, sat right next to me. I called her my work wife. And it was right before end-of-year reviews. And I was like, I need to figure out what I can ask for in a raise. So I grab her arm. I drag her to the bathroom. I'm like, tell me how much you make. And she was like, what? And I'm like, OK, I'm going in for my end-of-year review. I just need a benchmark to see what I could even be asking for. And she's a couple of years older than me, so she tells me what she makes. I'm like, OK, cool. That's good information. I go, I have my, you know, end-of-year review, and I'm like, with the amount of work and, you know, success that I brought to the team this year, I believe a raise of XYZ is commensurate. I would like my all-in compensation to be this.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  I stop talking. I end up basically getting what I want. So then I get back to my desk. I grab her by the arm. We go to the bathroom. I'm like, okay, they gave me this, but you're older than me. You have more experience than me and you close more deals than I did. This is what you need to be asking for. She goes, here you, loud and clear. She goes into her meeting. We both end up getting paid more. It's not competitive.

• 15:48Emma Grede?

  No.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  And we just saw both of us do better because we shared that information.

• 15:54Emma Grede?

  It's a win-win.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:55Emma Grede?

  And I feel like it's always a win-win and we have to get out of the scarcity mindset because it's only hurting us. I speak to so many people that like, I just have nobody that I can speak to. And I'm like, speak to your friends, speak to your mother, speak to whoever is in your vicinity. Cause everyone has something that they can share and something that's going to be like a complete eye opener to you.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  And maybe even someone not in your close vicinity. I've actually found

• 16:20Emma Grede?

  Like a colleague?

• 16:21Speaker 01

  Most, no, most of the BFFs are actually more comfortable sharing information with each other than they are with their best friend. Because they feel like, okay, well, I live in Denver, you live in Boston. We're never going to be competing for the same job. We're never competing for the same, you know, apartment. I'll tell you what I do. Easy enough.

• 16:40Emma Grede?

  Easy enough. So let's talk about stability. It's kind of feels like such a cornerstone of the way you speak about financial literacy and understanding. And there's something, you know, you talk about wealth building, starting with stability. Can you just like double down on that a bit for me?

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. You can't build a home on sand. You gotta build a home on cement. Right? And so for me, thinking about what it's all for, what's the purpose? What's the point? Financial literacy should all start from a base of stability. This means having an emergency fund. Typically I recommend three to six months of living expenses. If you're single, six to 12, if you are ahead of a household. It's paying down high interest rate debt. What I'm really talking about is credit cards. Those can compound super, super fast. But if you've got student loans or maybe even a mortgage, like those aren't nearly as quickly growing. It's all about setting healthy boundaries. I know so many people and especially in immigrant communities. The second you make it big, the second you make six figures,

• 17:41Speaker 01

  everybody and your uncle are calling you being like, Emma, can I have a small business loan of $500,000? And you're like, what? What do you mean? And I think-

• 17:52Emma Grede?

  I have no idea what you're talking about, Vivian. It's never happened.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  You're like, completely can't relate to that. But it's crazy, right? Because people want to drag on to your coattails. But what I encourage people to do is make sure that you are at a place of stability already so that you can lower the rope and pull people up, but not that you're being dragged down.

• 18:09Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I mean, I think this is really important. And I even like to start like one step ahead of this because before stability, you have to have a vision for yourself, right? And I feel like so many people are like, I want to be rich. I want to have, you know, this, you know, whatever it might be that's in your mind's eye. But I feel like having real specificity, like what does that mean to you? And I feel like one of the best things that I did when I was very, very young was have like real specificity. I was like, I need to get out of this situation of living in this place. And I would really, really like to do that. And I needed a certain baseline salary. At the time, it was £65,000. I was like, I need to get to 65 because for this rental amount in this type of area,

• 18:54Emma Grede?

  like, that's just, that's just what you need. That's just what you can have. Do you often find that when you're talking to people, they haven't, you know, they've got like these ideas and these things that they say, but it's just not like, it's not there, it's not concrete?

• 19:07Speaker 01

  And that's why I say everybody needs to set SMART goals. So SMART stands for things, specific, measurable.

• 19:15Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  You have to make sure that it's actionable, realistic and time bound. To your point of, I need to make $65,000. That's very specific. That's a number. So when people are talking about, I have a vision for my life. I'm like, okay, so what is the specific goal? You want to open an Etsy store. In three months, so we have to make sure that it's measurable. It's like, how do we make sure we can actually assess whether or not you succeeded or closed? Like, so maybe the Etsy store has to have a revenue number that we have to hit. Actionable. This can't be something that happens to you. It has to be something that you control. We gotta do it ourselves. So we have to do something and you have to be able to do an action item. Realistic? Come on.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  We're not going to become billionaires tomorrow, but we could perhaps become millionaires in five years' time. I don't see why that would be so unachievable. And time bound is the most important one. If you say, this is my goal, this is my goal, and you've said it for the past 10 years, you say it every single New Year's, it's not happening. Tell yourself how much time you have. You have three months to do this one thing, you have six months to do this next thing, and you have one year to make the whole thing happen. When you write it out, when you tell a friend, you are that much more likely to actually accomplish it.

• 20:28Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I really, truly believe that. What do you say to people that would struggle with even the jumping off point? Like, the stability piece? If you're living paycheck to paycheck, how do you even get to a place where you're stable?

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Well, I don't want to sound so tone deaf as to say that you can budget your way out of poverty or, you know, invest your way out of a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle. But if you are willing to put yourself in a place of discomfort for a temporary period of time, I am talking about being exhausted every single night. You are going to be so tired, you are going to literally be asleep before your head even hits the pillow. But pick up that second job, get that side hustle. Maybe you need to just be putting extra hours at your current job. And that way, at the end of the year, you can demand that raise and promotion. And frankly, if they're not going to give it to you, someone else will. But it's a very simple equation to getting what you want and making more money. You have to increase the amount coming in, you have to decrease the amount going out,

• 21:26Speaker 01

  and you have to invest everything in between. And for most people, the easiest thing to do is to increase what's coming in. Because at a certain point, you can't cut that much more out before you're like, I'm just not eating, or I'm just not, you know, living my life with any joy. It's simple, but it's the discipline that is required to do it day in and day out. That is the challenging part.

• 21:48Emma Grede?

  Absolutely, but don't you think that most of us have been through, and this is where I think it's really important to have a level of honesty around this. We all had those times. I feel like for maybe six years in my life, I lived doing kind of, you know, work that was massively unenjoyable, working way too hard, too many hours with seldom vacations and not that much great stuff going on, but it was a period of like hustle.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Can I tell you a quote that completely rewired my brain?

• 22:18Emma Grede?

  Please.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  If you are not willing to make sacrifices for your dream, the dream is what you have to sacrifice.

• 22:25Emma Grede?

  End of.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  I actually call them my peanut butter jelly days because

• 22:30Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  It's so real, by the way, like people think, oh, you had a Wall Street job. Everything must have been so amazing. Let me tell you, let me set a scene of what my life actually looked like. Okay. I was waking up at 5am. I was in the office by 5:45. I probably didn't leave the office until 6:30 or 7. On many nights I had client events, so then I had to be out with them, talking, schmoozing until nine or 10. I lived in a studio apartment with another girl, like there was no flex wall in between our beds. It was just a glorified dorm room.

• 22:58Emma Grede?

  I love this. You're working at JP Morgan, your family are out here boasting about you.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  I'm in a studio apartment.

• 23:04Emma Grede?

  Peanut butter and jelly.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Peanut butter and jelly. I remember exactly, I remember opening my fridge and being like, what is in here? There was like a bushel of green grapes, a couple Gatorades and bread and peanut butter and jelly. And that was it.

• 23:17Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  And it was because if I wanted to actually get to where I needed to be, I needed to be making sacrifices. And it's not fair. I wish, I wish I could have been born into generational wealth. Can you, can I tell you how easy that would have been?

• 23:32Emma Grede?

  Wouldn't it be nice? Wouldn't it be nice for all of us? But sacrifices are really real and I don't think sacrifices necessarily stop. I, I looked at something that you posted the other day that was about you like not buying a Birkin.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

• 23:46Emma Grede?

  But it's interesting because I think everybody looks at you now and would never imagine that you're still here making sacrifices for the life that you actually ultimately want to live.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Like I, I can sit here and make a joke, like I want a Birkin. I would love a two-tone AP watch. I would love to be able to drive an Aston Martin. I want all of those things. I'm not immune to the Instagram ads, okay? But. I also want to retire my parents. I also want to be able to purchase a single family home with my husband. I also want to be able to be setting money aside into five to nine accounts for future children. I want to be able to leave a legacy behind. Those don't really translate as well into the in-feed grid, but

• 24:31Emma Grede?

  Not so much.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Not so much.

• 24:32Emma Grede?

  Just like the peanut butter and jelly eating dozen.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  It ain't sexy. It's not.

• 24:36Emma Grede?

  I love that you had those years. I had exactly the same, but mine was Jacob's cream crackers and a block of cheese. That tells you a lot about my savory tendencies. Or a baguette, because you could get so much bread for ninety nine pence. But it was that, that was it. That was just the reality of what you did to get through the day. And it doesn't last forever. But I love this idea of like still making sacrifices. You still have a plan. You have, you know, a way that you want to live and a bunch of goals and things that you want to do. And you make sacrifices for them every single day.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  I mean, even now, I see you making sacrifices all the time.

• 25:11Emma Grede?

  All the time.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  Whether it's, hey, I have to be away from my family to run my business. I have to be away from my business to run my family. Like every day you have to make a choice.

• 25:20Emma Grede?

  I want to talk to you about this idea of discipline and intention and goal setting and thinking long term. And just to understand a little bit about the habits that you have to create to, to get there. Because this stuff like you might say it and then wake up feeling really differently like any other habit that you try to put in place. What actually worked for you?

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Infrastructure. I am, I have no willpower, like none. I am someone who will not go to the gym unless the gym bag was packed last night and I'm already wearing a sports bra. And so I know that about myself. If you know you have poor willpower, which most of us do, you're going to have to set up systems that help you out. So I always say this is like the payday system. When a paycheck hits, don't have all of it go into your checking account. Have some of it go into a savings account. I also think having money dates with a significant other sets up a system of, oh, we are working towards the same goal. So even though I Would love to go on a really big night, you know, out with the girlfriends or maybe even do a long weekend trip with them.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  I need to be saving this so that we can actually take our summer vacation together. Setting up those systems allows you to avoid thinking about it because the real liability in your like pathway to success is you.

• 26:40Emma Grede?

  So what do you say to people that have, you know, it's like they've done what they need to do. They've sat down, they've thought about their vision, they've thought about their goals. They're going to make sure that, you know, they're really writing everything down. What are the keys to financial freedom? What are the keys to this idea that we're all obsessed with generational wealth?

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think a big key is knowing what you want. It's about planning. I always say it's really fun to calculate your FU number. And you basically just envision your perfect year. You live how you want to live. Maybe you're supporting family, kids, whatever. You get to travel, you get to do whatever you want. Then you imagine what that year costs and divide it by 0.04. That represents 4%. 4% is an incredibly conservative return. You can get 4% from some savings accounts right now, so you can count on that. Then that number that you've now calculated is how many dollars you would need to have invested to then be able to provide the money you need to live your life. You never have to work again.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  And the beauty of it isn't that I'm encouraging people to try to just race to this number and then kick back and relax forever. But if you know what the goal is and you get halfway there, does that mean you get to start prioritizing other things over money? Maybe your time is worth more. Maybe your family is worth more. Maybe it's just convenience for you. But I want to know where I'm at on the roadmap to my goal. And if I'm honest with you, I calculate this number all the time. I love doing it. I think it's really fun. I don't know if I'll ever retire because I have built a life that I really enjoy. And that's the whole point. You want to love today while still taking care of tomorrow you.

• 28:20Emma Grede?

  But isn't that kind of daunting for you? Like you've reached the point where you're like, I don't know that I'll ever retire?

• 28:25Speaker 01

  No, because when I say that, people are like, what? What do you mean? You have the money for it? And I'm like, yes, but like retirement isn't just, you know, turning in your badge and then just being done with your life. And then it's all downhill. Like retirement can look very different. For me, retirement might be, I work for a nonprofit two days out of the week. Two days out of the week, I get to spend with my family. And then one day out of the week, I have for miscellaneous.

• 28:50Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Retirement doesn't have to be giving up on your life and just in the decline. Retirement is whatever you want to make it out to be, and I'm probably going to work in my retirement.

• 28:59Emma Grede?

  Me too, no doubt.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  I can't imagine you ever letting go of something like that.

• 29:03Emma Grede?

  I mean, absolutely no way. So when somebody gets like a raise or a bonus, what should change in their financial strategy? What do you recommend?

• 29:13Speaker 01

  I think raises and bonuses are a really dangerous time. Because if you're not careful, you make a little bit more, you spend a little bit more. And then all of a sudden you get to the end of the year and you're like, hmm, that's weird. I got a $20,000 raise, but I am no better off for it.

• 29:29Emma Grede?

  I feel like so many people feel like that.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  So many people. And that's why you're seeing people who make half a million dollars a year still say they're living paycheck to paycheck because all of their expenses have gotten bigger. They've gotten a much nicer apartment. They got that fancy car. They had to have kids and they put them into private school and now all the money's gone anyway. And you're still not setting yourself up for success for tomorrow. So what I say is when you have a bonus, you get to think about where you want it to go. But it has to take care of different aspects of your life. So as soon as you get a bonus, I encourage people to put some of it into savings, invest some of it, make sure that you're paying down your debt. But I always say allocate a little bit just for fun.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  When I got my first very big bonus at JP Morgan, I went out and I bought a black leather Prada bag. It was the first designer thing I ever owned. And that, when I tell you, that bag made me feel invincible. It was the first time that I wanted something and I got it for myself because I could afford it, because I put in the, you know, blood, sweat and tears. And that was such an accomplishment. But if I'm honest, every bag I've bought after that, you don't get the same rush.

• 30:41Emma Grede?

  Not quite the same.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  It's not quite the same.

• 30:43Emma Grede?

  It's never quite the same. And what do you even think about people actually like even getting pay rises? Because I feel like there are a lot of people that take charge and they push that for themselves. But some people are pretty content to wait for the raise.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Why would you be content to wait for the raise? It's never gonna come.

• 31:00Emma Grede?

  I have a lot of women that work for me across various different businesses. And there is a huge correlation. Like when you look at who comes in and asks for a raise, who comes in and like just shoots their shot and like goes for their absolute, you know, sky. Um, it's not usually the women in the office. And you know, you will often find that women are missing pay cycles. They're missing increase cycles because they just are not asking so much.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  The smartest person in the room is not the person who gets paid the most. It's the person who's the best advocate for themselves. That is unfortunately how it goes. You need to tell people what you're gonna do, do it really well, and then tell them what you did. And what really frustrates me to no end is that people think that if they put their head down and they work really hard, oh, maybe management will finally notice that. You're not getting noticed. I'm telling you that right now. First off, I think that you should always be aiming to be in the top quartile of performers. If you are not in that top quartile, that is your first step. Because it is embarrassing to go in and ask for a raise and then somehow get put on a performance improvement plan. That sucks. You don't want that.

• 32:07Emma Grede?

  That sucks and that happens a lot.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  It does. It does. They're like, I deserve a raise. And you're like, you've actually showed up late the past four days. Like, no, um, you need to make sure you are a top performer. Because guess what? Top performers always get paid. Good market, bad market, top performance, top performers are kept around, they are safe, and they are always prioritized. Facts. If you are a top performer, I encourage everybody to go into their boss's office every year, set time, and ask for 10 to 15% more than they are currently making. Am I promising you're getting 10 to 15? No.

• 32:38Emma Grede?

  No, but you gotta ask.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  You gotta ask.

• 32:40Emma Grede?

  And maybe you'll get eight.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Eight is great.

• 32:42Emma Grede?

  Eight is great.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Eight beats inflation.

• 32:44Emma Grede?

  There you go.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Eight means you make more than you did last year. And you have to actually have the receipts to back it up. Jan 1, I always encourage everyone, start to make a folder. Label it, raise receipts, promo pitch, brag book, whatever you wanna call it, and the year. Anytime something great happens, say, I work for you. You write a nice email. You're like, wow, that product launch was so amazing because of Vivian. Congratulations to the whole team. I am saving that email. I put it in my little folder. So then, come June or July, mid-year review, or end-of-year review, around November, December, January, I am able to literally have a laundry list of every time I was congratulated, every time a sale went through because of me, every time a product launched because

• 33:26Speaker 01

  of me, every time a marketing campaign was perfect because of me. And then I say, because of the experience and achievements I have brought to this team over the past year, a raise of XYZ would be commensurate with what I have accomplished. And then, this is the big key, you stop talking. I did this crazy thing. Shut down. My first year, when I asked for a raise, I followed it up with, but if not, that's okay. Girl, why did you just do all that? If not, it's okay. It's not okay. Just let them be the one to tell you no. People psych themselves out. They think it's rude. It's not. Just wait for the silence. Silence is okay. Let them tell you no. But more often

• 34:09Speaker 01

  than not, the answer isn't going to be yes or no. It's going to be, thank you for sharing this with me. Let me go back, take it, see what budget we have to work with, and I'll come back to you.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  Today's episode is sponsored by NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. Ever Google a money question and end up 12 tabs deep with 12 different answers? This podcast is your shortcut back to clarity. NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast breaks down financial decisions with a team of trusted journalists. They explain the why behind decisions like investing, home buying, and choosing credit cards with clear, research-backed insights. No jargon, no misinformation. Make your next financial move with confidence. Follow NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast on your favorite podcast app.

• 34:58Emma Grede?

  I want to talk to you a little bit about this idea of financial literacy and some of the differences in men and women. You've obviously taught yourself to be incredibly financially literate and there comes like a comfort level in asking for things when you have the right words and you've got the right vernacular. How do you talk to people about going about that and becoming more financially literate?

• 35:21Speaker 01

  I think it is a process. It's a journey. It's step by step. But as you become more financially literate, it literally is like a self fulfilling prophecy. You feel more confident talking about money. You have more money. And when you have more money, you can go into negotiations just a lot stronger. What I would say is the first thing you work on when you are trying to become financially literate, though, is actual jargon. The problem with learning finance is it feels like another language. When people are saying things like APY, APR, 401K, you know, 403B, like FICO score, you're like, what do all of those words mean? And you don't know. And so it's getting educated in those spaces, getting

• 36:06Speaker 01

  a mentor. My mentor changed my life. And she was the person I asked all my stupid questions to. I was like, what is a FICO score? And she's like, girl, what is yours? I'm like, oh, I don't know. Can I have this credit card or no? And having that person who can explain it to you is so helpful. This can be any sort of professor in a academic setting. This can be an older colleague at work that you respect, that you look up to. This can be someone from your house of worship, from your community center. It can be anybody.

• 36:37Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and you can learn from everywhere because I feel like the way I grew up, quite frankly, there was nobody in my proximity that I would even imagine would could be my mentor, or that I'd want as my mentor, frankly. But it's like, I've read everything. You know, I was 14 years old with the Financial Times because I was like, surely that's about finance, right? And I would read it. But the, the, the way they spoke, the way articles were written, the certain words that were in there, it became something that wasn't intimidating. To me, it became something that I wanted to lean into and learn from. And back in those days, by the way, before there was even an internet, you were looking in a dictionary or looking in an encyclopedia and looking up what those terms meant.

• 37:19Emma Grede?

  It is so easy for us to learn about concepts, but it's on you, right? You have to go out there and look for it.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  I would also say that we need to un-brainwash all of the young women listening and tell them that it's okay to want to be rich. Because right now, if you hear a woman say, I want to be rich, I want to be wealthy, she's a gold digger. Lame. It's not. Because when you hear a man say, I want to be rich, I want to be powerful, I want to be wealthy, we're like, CEO.

• 37:51Emma Grede?

  Let's go.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Let's go. Like, strong personality. But when women are proud and confident and want finances in that way, it seems like such a negative stereotype. But I also think it comes a lot from how we talk about like money with men and women. With men, it's about growing your wealth, investing, you know, taking charge. But with women, you've heard the pop culture, Confessions of a Shopaholic, oh, you don't have to, you know, spend all your money, save your avocado toast money and don't get that latte. It's like, why are all of these like tropes villainized when in fact, women have less debt across every single category except for student loans?

• 38:31Emma Grede?

  We do better.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  We do better.

• 38:33Emma Grede?

  I mean, we do better when it comes to investments, when you look at women's portfolios. It's like, it's very, very obvious. Women make incredible CEOs because we are so fiscally responsible.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  And they own more homes in all fifty states.

• 38:46Emma Grede?

  Is that true?

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Than single men. So, single women own more homes in all fifty states than single men.

• 38:50Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  And you're trying to tell me where the bit one's bad with money? I don't think so.

• 38:54Emma Grede?

  It's a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:56Emma Grede?

  Because sometimes we feed into this idea that we don't know enough about money.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:02Emma Grede?

  I got so irritated when that, um, there was like a meme going around or like a TikTok trend going around last year. That was all of these women telling their husbands, you know, darling, um, I can't make my mortgage payments this month. And, you know, the husband. Want to be like, like, when have you ever made the mortgage? Like, do you even know our provider is? And I must have been saying that fifty times. All my friends were like, we know this is driving you crazy. We know you've had the conversation with us in the past about our mortgages and our lack of understanding around it. And so it's high time that we got involved in those conversations and made sure that it is on us. Because women are making money, they're creating incredible businesses, we're creating unbelievable value.

• 39:45Emma Grede?

  And yet, there is still some, you know, something in the ether that makes it to be that, you know, and the minute a woman admits that she cares about money, we're like, what a bitch.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, but Emma, imagine if I told you every single day, you are not pretty, you are not pretty, you are not pretty.

• 40:04Emma Grede?

  I would be like, don't be ridiculous, Ben.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  Don't be a liar, too. But at a certain point, you start to believe it.

• 40:11Emma Grede?

  A certain point, you start to believe it.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  If you say, I'm bad with money, I'm bad with money, I'm bad, I'm bad with money, you start to believe it. Our words have so much power, and I cannot stress this enough. Every single woman, one, needs to have their own money, because you need to have a, you know, runaway fund. But two, if you are in a relationship, if you are not the person who is managing the money on the day to day, you better know every single detail about your finances. You have to be an active participant in your life. You need to know what you make, both of you, what you have in terms of assets, what you owe in terms of debts, and also what you're spending in terms of expenses. Because I cannot tell you the number of DMs that I have gotten of, the horror story is really,

• 40:56Speaker 01

  I just found out my husband was cheating on me, and I don't have any money, and now I'm about to be left destitute. But a more realistic DM that I get pretty frequently is, I had a wonderful, loving relationship of forty five years, my husband just passed away, and I don't even know the password to my bank account. Whether it's malicious or not, you have to know what your own money is because most women, we die alone. We outlive our partners and at some point, you will have to manage your own money. You better start now.

• 41:26Emma Grede?

  It's something that I, that I read about you when you actually, and just thinking about money and being in partnership. You said that your husband was the single best financial decision you'd ever made.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  Best.

• 41:37Emma Grede?

  How so?

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Listen, I don't think that you need to find a partner that is totally debt-free or the richest man on earth, or richest partner on earth, whatever.

• 41:45Emma Grede?

  Me neither, by the way.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  But you do need to find someone who values the dollar the same way you do, who is your biggest cheerleader and cannot be your competitor. Life is hard. Life is super hard. I'm not about to go home and live with a hater at home.

• 42:01Emma Grede?

  Damn, right.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  I want someone when I go home, they tell me the sun shines out of my butt. Like, they think I can do no wrong. They are my fiercest advocate. Because when you have a conscientious partner, you on average actually make 4% more each year. And I can't tell you how many moments throughout my life and my career, if my husband had not been there, and at that time, he was like some random strange boyfriend that I'd, you know, barely met. There are so many moments that he encouraged me to do the scary thing. And that scary thing was go from JP Morgan to BuzzFeed. That scary thing was to quit my really good job, my $625,000 a year job, to take your rich BFF all time.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  The scary thing was to hire agents, hire lawyers, get a publicist. The scary thing was to start my own venture. And every time, he always says something silly, but he goes, "Do you think that we're gonna starve on my salary?" And he makes great money. So I'm like, "Well, no." And he's like, "And what are you so worried about? Take a swing." And I get to play big ball because I'm not afraid that if I fall, he's gonna catch me.

• 43:11Emma Grede?

  Oh, I love that so much. I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about investing because once people are

• 43:16Speaker 01

  My favorite.

• 43:18Emma Grede?

  It's such a difficult thing to even start to think about because people imagine that you need a lot more than just, you know, a great job and a good salary and a little bit of savings to start investing. And so for somebody that's just really starting out and just about to, you know, dip their fingers into investing, where do you recommend people should start?

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Get a robo advisor. So simple. What people do is they're like, uh, like I have to pick my own investments. I have to pick the right account.

• 43:44Emma Grede?

  You don't.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  It takes them years and years and years to finally get the guts to do it. And now you're 15 years behind. Get a robo advisor today. Literally just Google best robo advisor 2026. You will find multiple lists that have a bunch of them. Go into them, compare the fees, compare the platforms, see what you like the best. I'm not going to sit here and even name any names. You pick what's right for you. Then you're gonna take a quick quiz.

• 44:06Emma Grede?

  But then again, this is about learning, right? Familiarizing yourself with the concept, understanding what a robo advisor is, going on, doing the work, doing some research. You have to research. You have to like do it.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:17Emma Grede?

  Ain't nothing to it but to do it. Sometimes you just gotta like get past and like go.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Because you know what? Doing it 80% good is better than not doing it at all.

• 44:27Emma Grede?

  Totally.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  80% is great.

• 44:29Emma Grede?

  And you'll get better at it, like anything else you were doing. If you were asking for pay rises one way in your twenties, damn sure when you get to your thirties, you've got a slightly better system for it and a better way of negotiating. So it's like you're going to get better. Okay, so you get a robo advisor.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  So you get a robo advisor, you're gonna take this quick quiz. It's gonna ask you things like what tax jurisdiction you live in, AKA where do you live? Do you have a family? When do you plan on retiring? How much do you make? How much do you have? Do you have debt? Blah blah blah. You answer all these questions. It goes blah blah blah. And then it spits out a portfolio that is tailored to your risk tolerance. Your risk tolerance is higher when you're younger, like lower when you're older. Your risk tolerance is higher if you make more money and lower if you make less. All of these levers will change. But you will get a portfolio that makes sense for you and you get to be invested. invested in forty five minutes, forty five minutes time. And the best thing, they will send you that quiz every year, every two years to then read up. Because things might change. You might find a partner, you might have children, you might move.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  And your investment should change with your life, too.

• 45:29Emma Grede?

  What do you recommend that people get started with? Like, what do you think as a percentage of somebody's salary? How are you looking at that?

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say that if you follow the fifty thirty twenty budgeting strategy, fifty percent of your after-tax take-home pay is on needs. So that's housing, groceries, basic transportation. Thirty percent is wants. See, I allocated a lot of money for wants. You get to have fun, you get to go get your nails done, you get to go see your friends, you get to go on vacation, you get to go to a concert. Twenty percent is focusing on taking care of future you. So that includes saving, debt pay down, and investing. The reason why I don't earmark a certain number for investing is because if you have high interest rate debt, like credit card debt.

• 46:12Emma Grede?

  You've got to get ready.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  That needs to go first.

• 46:14Emma Grede?

  You already said that. That was in the foundations.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  That was in the foundation. So not everyone should be investing. If you don't have that paid down, you can't invest. If you don't have money that you can lock up for at least a decade, don't invest. But once you do have those things, it should be a portion of that. And then over time, as you make more money, my hope is that the fifty and thirty parts of your budget actually become smaller and smaller percentages, while that twenty gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

• 46:41Emma Grede?

  And how do you think about property? Because I feel like so many of us grew up with this idea that every penny that we're gonna make has to just get down, you know, go for a down payment on a house.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Okay, so this is such a contentious topic.

• 46:55Emma Grede?

  She's like, exhale.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Rent versus buy. Everyone's like, so if you're renting, are you a loser? No.

• 47:01Emma Grede?

  No, definitely not. No.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  No, definitely not. But also, it's it's the facts. Right now, it is cheaper to rent than buy in all American major cities.

• 47:12Emma Grede?

  Yes, and in many other places around the world, by the way.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  But. Buying a home for many still feels like the American dream. But I encourage people to get really creative. So maybe it's, we don't buy our primary residence, but we buy an investment property. And then we rent in our major city that we live in. That's a way to get into the real estate game. Maybe instead of buying a singular property that only gives you access to one geography, you buy a REIT, a real estate investment trust. It kind of works the same way as a stock does or an ETF does. But you get to just buy it on a very liquid market and now you have real estate exposure. Or even for the folks who are like, okay, but I still really want to buy a property for me. Have you thought about an FHA loan? Have you thought about a conventional 97? If you're in a rural area, a USDA loan?

• 47:58Speaker 01

  There are so many different creative ways that if homeownership is important to you, you can still be a homeowner. But you don't need to be a homeowner to be financially literate or to be financially successful.

• 48:09Emma Grede?

  And how do you figure out what one of those is right for you? What do you recommend?

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Girl, we talked about this already. You have to do the research. So FHA loans are better for people who have lower credit scores and really need a little leg up for their first place. Conventional 97s reward you for having an incredibly high credit score. USDA loans only apply to certain rural areas. But you just have to think about what makes sense for you. And if you live in an area where there are other people that you know who are homeowners, ask them what they did. Something that we did when we were actually buying our home was we hit up all of our mentors. So my husband hit up his, I hit up mine. And we said, who did your mortgage? Who actually originated yours? And we were discussing with four different banks. And we pit them against each other.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  And we said, we are ready to sign as soon as you are ready to bend to our will. And when one, you know, one team gave us a really great offer. But if I'm honest, I was a little nervous about their ability to close on time. I turned right back around and I threw it in another, you know, mortgage loan officer's face. And I said, well, this place is offering me this and I'm literally about to go do this. You want my business? Yes or no? And he said, tell me what you need. I will match the terms and we will get it done.

• 49:24Emma Grede?

  I want to go back into this investment conversation because I feel like so many people that I know are dying to start investing and to, you know, put their best foot forward. And it feels like an intimidating thing. For those that feel that, you know, the stock market really isn't for them. What are some other ways that women can get into investing? If you're just like, this feels uncomfortable and it's not for me and I'm never going to understand it. What do you suggest?

• 49:51Speaker 01

  While I do want to answer that question, I would also challenge that person and ask them, why? Because the stock market, more often than not, is one of the easiest ways to build your wealth. It allows your money to stay really liquid. You can get that cash back whenever you need it, really. Like, why are you so afraid? Is it because you feel like you like to be able to see your money or hold your money? Well, guess what? Not investing is actually scarier than investing.

• 50:17Emma Grede?

  I'm so glad you've answered it this way, by the way.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Because if you aren't investing, the cost of living, inflation, it's eating away at your dollars. You put a hundred dollars under your mattress, that hundred dollars is worth less next year than it is now.

• 50:29Emma Grede?

  So much less.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  But if you invest, it actually might be worth more. And so I would just say, one, please do invest in the stock market. But two, you can look at a bunch of other things. People love to invest in art, in collectibles, in wine. But for more alternative investments, my big line is this. It is only worth what someone else is willing to pay. And so if the market tanks and all the rich people are starting to hold on to their dollars, your rare Pokemon card, your Beanie Baby, your special bottle of wine, it's just not going to be worth as much. And you're going to have a harder time selling it and you'll pay higher fees to sell it.

• 51:10Emma Grede?

  Yep.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  So for me, stock market's the winner.

• 51:13Emma Grede?

  So how do you balance the, the kind of flexibility and the discipline when it comes to long-term investing?

• 51:18Speaker 01

  You know, I would say it's all about delayed gratification. It's kind of like when you paint your nails and then you're like, I have to go to the bathroom. You're gonna have to hold it, baby. You're gonna have to wait. Because you wanna have a really good time today. And it is so fun to see your investments make you a gazillion dollars overnight.

• 51:38Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  But that's realistically not gonna happen. And if it does, there's a really big chance that it might make you negative gazillion dollars tomorrow. I think it's all about waiting. Having a lot of money doesn't help you make more money. Having a lot of time helps you make a ton of money. Because of how the math works, compound interest is most effective the longer you have something in play. So if you start investing a teeny tiny sum of money in your early twenties, you're probably gonna be better off than if you invest a chunky amount of money in your forties or fifties. I'm not saying if you're starting late, you can't make it happen, but it will be harder. So start early and often, invest as much as you can.

• 52:15Emma Grede?

  So one of the things I wanna talk to you about is like managing, this idea of managing wealth in the workplace. Why do benefits in the workplace play such an outsized role? When you start to think about how much money people are leaving on the table without even realizing it?

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. So benefits are so important because many of them are now replacing something called a pension. So back in the day, the onus of retirement, like the saving for your retirement, was your boss's job, was your company's job. And the longer you worked somewhere, the bigger your pension would be. And they would pay you more and more money in your retirement. So if you worked somewhere for forty years, maybe you didn't make a lot of money. Maybe you didn't get a lot of raises or promotions. But that fat pension check every single year of your retirement was worth it because you knew you were taking care of Scott free. Problem was pensions were really, really terrible because they were really bad for the employer.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  The employer was on the hook for a certain amount of money, no matter whether they made the right investment choices, no matter if they remembered to set aside the right amount of money for you. Now, they were like, you know what? We have a genius idea. We are going to replace this with something much, much worse, but kind of still the same, called the 401K. And the 401K now puts the responsibility of saving for your retirement on you, the employee. Now, you have to take your own money out of your own paycheck, put it into the market. You have to invest it. Maybe some employers do offer a match, so they'll match you dollar for dollar up to a certain point, and that's great. That's free money. Only case in finance that's free money and not a scam.

• 53:46Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  But it's now your responsibility. And people never know what to do when it comes to actually thinking about their retirement, their health benefits, their stock option plans, maybe their company even offers like mental wellness checks, things like that. There is something at your company called a prospectus. You are going to go to HR and you're going to ask for, hey, can I see the prospectuses on the investments available in my 401K? Can I see the benefits outlined? There's probably like a handbook, a manual. It's going to be dense. It's going to be kind of annoying to read, but if you read it and you actually digest it, you will have so much more visibility into all of the things that your company does for you. I know a

• 54:30Speaker 01

  girlfriend who didn't even realize her company offered fertility benefits. She saved $30,000 because her company covered her egg freezing and IVF journey for her and her husband. And can you imagine if your boss said, hey, I'm going to give you a $30,000 raise. You want that? Of course you'd say yes. That's $30,000.

• 54:50Emma Grede?

  That's $30,000 that you've just left on the table. What should people understand before they even touch their 401K?

• 54:56Speaker 01

  That when you put cash in, it doesn't mean you're invested. This is the biggest mistake I see. People will open up these investment accounts, their 401K, their IRA, their Roth IRA. They put a bunch of money in. They're like, I'm good, baby. No, you're not. You're not even close to good. Okay? That money is sitting in cash. All you have done is taken cash and put it in an envelope. You now have to take the cash in that envelope and go buy stuff. So that's that target date retirement funds, index funds, sector funds, whatever you want. But you have to actually deploy that capital. And if you don't, it'll sit in cash and it's the exact same as leaving it in a checking account.

• 55:33Emma Grede?

  Which is just a disaster.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  Eaten away by inflation.

• 55:35Emma Grede?

  I want to ask you a couple of questions that actually came directly from the audience. Let me see if I can find these. Yeah, I like this first one. Yeah. When do you hire a financial planner?

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Ooh, okay. So a financial planner? I would say as soon as it makes sense and you can afford it. But I want to make a really clear distinction. A financial advisor and a financial planner are two very different people.

• 56:00Emma Grede?

  Please make that distinction for us.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  So a financial planner is literally someone who more often than not is either available to you for free or for a flat rate fee through your financial institution. They will walk through with you your current finances, things that need to change for you to hit your goals. I think everybody should talk to a financial planner.

• 56:18Emma Grede?

  Right?

• 56:18Speaker 01

  In particular.

• 56:19Emma Grede?

  Everyone, especially if you can get one for. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  But a financial advisor, they're a money manager. They charge you a percentage of the assets under their management. So that's anywhere between a percent to 1.25%. Over the course of your lifetime, that could be six to seven figures. Are you cool giving someone else six to seven figures over the course of your lifetime? The only people that I think really need financial advisors are people whose financial situations are very complex. So there's two different scenarios. If you are a high-powered attorney, you make $650,000 a year. You actually have a really simple financial picture because you get paid one way. It's a W2 job and you just make a lot of money. You can probably manage your own money. But say you are a touring musician. You sell merch, you sell albums, you get money from streaming, you tour.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  So you have to actually make money from ticket sales. You're getting money every which way. You're probably making that money in a bunch of different cities and maybe even different countries. That is a very complicated financial situation.

• 57:18Emma Grede?

  Absolutely. And listen, I feel like so many people have that type of setup now. We think about all of the creators, influencers, they're getting endorsement money.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Look at us.

• 57:27Emma Grede?

  Exactly. It's like nobody is getting their money in the most straightforward ways. And you probably need somebody to come and help you with that. You can be really astute and you can be really smart, but you're not going to understand the implications from like a million different territories. It's like you need somebody else to come and have that cut through from you. This question I absolutely love. How to start building wealth in your forties when everyone's talking about starting early? We've spoken a lot about starting early today, but of course, there's no, no time is too late. Please tell us that.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  No time is too late. It's going to be harder though. So I want us to play catch up, both literally, but also mentally. You're going to need to put a bigger percentage of your paycheck away into your retirement savings, into your investment.

• 58:10Emma Grede?

  So you're saying that we should get rid of that fifty, thirty, twenty role?

• 58:13Speaker 01

  You gotta do more.

• 58:14Emma Grede?

  And switch it up a bit more.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  I'm asking you to cut down on the wants, because I don't want to ask people to cut down on needs. You need those, right? But cut down on those wants.

• 58:22Emma Grede?

  Well, maybe reevaluate the needs.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Reevaluate, yeah, yeah.

• 58:25Emma Grede?

  Because by forty, you might have switched some things into needs that aren't really needs.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Getting Botox, not a need, even though, even though I think it is.

• 58:32Emma Grede?

  It's just a want, actually.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  But things like that, like make sure that you are doing more than what you would have had to do in your twenties. But also, the tax code allows you to literally catch up. People who are over fifty and between their retirement age and fifty, actually can put more dollars into their retirement accounts than everybody else. So you can literally catch up with your dollars.

• 58:53Emma Grede?

  How can you work hard, produce more and not give it all away to taxes?

• 58:58Speaker 01

  Okay, so, you know, there's, there's the really simple stuff of contributing to your retirement that is always going to help give you a tax advantage of some sort. It's also by playing by the government's rules. So maybe it's, you know, you move into a city in a state that has no state income tax. Think about that. There are different things that you can do, especially if you are a business owner, that makes it really easy to write off parts of your expenses.

• 59:29Emma Grede?

  Absolutely.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  I think that is a real win for people who are 1099, who are their own business owners versus W2 employees. Talking to a really good accountant and making sure that they are being creative.

• 59:41Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  I want you to have a creative accountant.

• 59:43Emma Grede?

  Yep.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  And that is how you're going to be able to get this done.

• 59:45Emma Grede?

  There's a question here saying, when, um, how much is, I think they might be English. How much to pay oneself as an entrepreneur?

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, I think there's like a bunch of different schools of thought of this, but here's mine. You need to pay yourself a healthy salary, one where you can comfortably live your personal life. Because if I see a CEO who pays themselves so little that they are driving a car that can barely get them from point A to point B, that they are eating the peanut butter jellies and not taking care of their body, it makes me worried about the health of their company as well.

• 1:00:22Emma Grede?

  I couldn't agree more.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  You have to take care of you first before you can, you know, your own oxygen mask first, and then the business's oxygen mask.

• 1:00:28Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  But I encourage people to pay themselves as much as possible without hurting the business, but also as little as possible to get them the life that they want.

• 1:00:38Emma Grede?

  All right, one more of these because I think they're so helpful. How do you plan and run your own business and your own income when your income is inconsistent?

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  Financial forecasting, when you are feast or famine, is 10 times even more important than if you're a traditional W2 employee. When you are a W2 employee, you can typically budget month to month.

• 1:00:57Emma Grede?

  Yep.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  But when you are a freelancer and you have these high and low periods of income, I need you to budget quarter by quarter or year by year. And that means when you have those really, really big feast moments, you need to be setting more aside to act as buffer when you have those famine and trough moments. Once you actually start to have your business run for a number of years, you will start to notice patterns. As a small business owner myself, I've noticed that the spend in Q4 is unlike Anything else.

• 1:01:29Emma Grede?

  Anything else.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  But Q1, where did all the money go? Help me. Like, that is very literally what it looks like. But it happens every year. And every single year, after Q4, I'm like, I'm rich. And after Q1, I'm like, wait, are we doing okay? But now I know that. So I save more of those Q4 dollars. And I make sure that I have enough to make payroll. I have enough to continue to run my business. I make sure that I can pay all my vendors, all of my team. And so it's all about planning, but for a longer time horizon.

• 1:02:00Emma Grede?

  Yeah. I mean, listen, you are an incredibly successful entrepreneur yourself. What is it that you wish you knew, that you'd love to pass on to other women or to other founders? That is just the one piece of information you wish you'd have had way more early on?

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  I would say to probably just take risks sooner and move faster. I pride myself now on being fast. I think I'm faster than most people. I don't think I'm smarter. And frankly, I work really hard, but I don't know if I work harder than everybody, but I'm fast. So when I don't know what to do and I have a slew of decisions, one through five. By the time someone else has now gone through the analysis and belabored the decision. I've already gone through the first three and realized they don't work. So now I'm on to four. And if four doesn't work, five's gonna be it. I think that we could all learn to be a little faster, be a little bit more decisive. Move with speed and precision, but then don't be afraid to cut bait if it's not working.

• 1:03:03Emma Grede?

  Right.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  If you move fast, you can just do more things. And you'll find out if something doesn't work sooner versus having this whole plan, this launch plan, and then it doesn't work. Then it's a real failure because you've wasted all that time. If you don't waste too much time, you can always pivot to something else.

• 1:03:19Emma Grede?

  How do you think about risk at this point in your career? Because I guess there's so much. You know, you're out here, you're giving people financial advice, you're building your own business, you're recently married.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:30Emma Grede?

  And and going on that journey. How are you thinking about risk at this point in your life?

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  I think right now I am very risk-loving. So there's people who are risk averse and risk loving. I'm very risk loving because I don't have any kids. I own a home, but you know, I can comfortably make those payments. I think I will become more and more risk averse as my life becomes more rooted. When I have the kids and the pet and maybe more people frankly on my payroll. If I have to have a nanny to help with the kids. If I have to have a personal assistant. Right now I hire for my business, but I handle all of my own miscellaneous life activities by myself.

• 1:04:10Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  As there are more people who depend on you, you have to move a little bit more carefully. But right now I'll take every risk. I'll try if if something's crazy, I'll try anything once and twice if I like it. And so I just think right now is a really freeing time because I don't have too many responsibilities. And I'm lucky I have a partner who also makes a great living, makes a great income. So we take care of ourselves for each other. We don't have to take care of the other person.

• 1:04:36Emma Grede?

  I think that's fantastic advice. As you start to step into, you know, potentially looking at children and and building a family. How are you equating that with the Vivian that has been, you know, leaning into risk and moving really fast? How is that changing or shaping your thinking now?

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  If I'm honest, I really do look up to you. I look up to a lot of women that are doing, you know, something tangential to what I'm doing. But it all seems like an impossible balancing act. The last time we sat down together was when I was actually interviewing you.

• 1:05:09Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  And you said something that was crazy to me that you were like, I never get to be in two places at once. And it's not fair to somebody at all times. Like either I am, you know, being selfish and thinking about my business or being selfish and thinking about my kids. And there's no right answer, but you do have to pick and choose your battles and it's always a sacrifice. And so I think I will have to unfortunately make harder decisions. Something I'm working on is saying no to stuff.

• 1:05:39Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Leaving the corporate world and becoming my own boss. I was very afraid to ever say no because it felt like I had this lightning in a bottle moment, my 15 minutes. of fame and if I ever said no to any press opportunity or interview or brand partnership, it would never come back and I would say, well, I guess I've just lost out on that like opportunity. But what I've come to find is that there's power in saying no. And when I say no to the little thing that I didn't really want to do, it actually frees up that time for me to do something bigger and better. And frankly, sometimes that bigger and better thing is just sit on my couch. But it really is looking up to other people, seeing how you manage both your life and your work.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  Because I do love both things and I don't want to have to give up anything, but I will.

• 1:06:27Emma Grede?

  I'm interested to think like, because you're so long term and you've been thinking and in this world for a long time, in the financial world for a long time, do you sit here and go like I am planned through my sixties and my seventies and my eighties? I know we've spoken a little bit about retirement today, but how far do you go with that?

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  You know, I think I try to go really far out, but it is ever changing. You know, five years ago, Your Rich BFF didn't exist. Isn't that crazy?

• 1:06:58Emma Grede?

  Which is crazy.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  We actually met with a financial planner, I want to say like eight years ago. My now husband and I, we sat down and we were like, okay, this is great. Like if Vivian can continue to make, you know, a salary like this and I can continue in my career, like this is what it'll look like. What a joke. Like, can I look back on those documents and be like, wow, none of this actually makes any sense? Two years after that, I started Your Rich BFF. I started making really great money. That was supplemental to my BuzzFeed career, which also really took off at that time. So I was like, oh my gosh, like haha, look at that financial plan. How crazy. Three years later, I'm in the midst of Your Rich BFF. Everything is growing. It's my full-time job. I look back at that financial plan. I'm like, oh, what a joke.

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  Last year, I spoke with the New York Times. I made $7 million in my business as an individual person.

• 1:07:47Emma Grede?

  Thank you for telling me the number, by the way.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course, I have to.

• 1:07:50Emma Grede?

  No, you don't. You actually don't have to, and most people don't. But I love that you do, because if you didn't, it'd be really freaky.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  But like, that's crazy. And for me to say, my business made $7 million last year. And two years before that, I didn't have any idea that I was going to ever be able to do that. Like, I think it is not a wasted exercise, but it is one that doesn't necessarily take into account the fact that I'm currently on a rocket ship. So I try to do a financial planning meeting every single year. I try to extrapolate for the next 40 years of my life. But right now, everything is up in the air. And that's why I get to do all of these cool things. But maybe at some point, my life will stabilize. And then I'll have a better picture of what my 60s and 70s and 80s looks like. But for now, I'm riding the wave.

• 1:08:40Emma Grede?

  What would you say to any woman that is listening right now that is in a comfortable situation, like you were at BuzzFeed, but is thinking that there's more somehow? That has that itch and that thought and that dream and they're aspiring? What do you want to say to those people that are looking at you and thinking, I'd love to have a year in my future where I make $7 million bucks?

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think mediocrity is a drug that really clouds your judgment. I spoke with a NYU professor, she's a slotted author, Suzy Welch.

• 1:09:19Emma Grede?

  Oh, I love Suzy Welch. She's like genius.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  The best. So Suzy says that a B-plus life is the most dangerous thing. Because if you have a C-minus life and your life sucks, like, you're really incentivized to change it. If you have an A-plus life, your life is amazing and you're really incentivized to keep it. But B-plus, you can tread forever. And you can have a mediocre life for a really long time. And then you'll look back and be like, this isn't what we promised ourselves. And so for someone who has a decent life, a really stable setup.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  I just say, don't be afraid to take the risk. When I was thinking about taking your HBFF full time, I asked myself a question and it was, when I'm 50 years old, you know, at the time I was 25 ish, I was like 25 years from now, I've lived another entire lifetime. Am I going to regret not giving this a try? And I had something and I was like, yeah, I will regret it. I don't want to ask myself, what if? Do not give up on the best opportunities of your life because of fear. Don't be afraid to take the risk.

• 1:10:25Emma Grede?

  That is really, really great advice. What's next for your rich BFF?

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you so much.

• 1:10:30Emma Grede?

  I want to know whatever you're happy to share.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  I'd love to share with all of the folks who are watching or listening.

• 1:10:36Emma Grede?

  You've got a new book?

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  New book, well endowed, cheeky title, always have to.

• 1:10:41Emma Grede?

  I mean, you have to have a cheeky, you're called the rich BFF. I mean, I feel like you have to, oh, it looks like you've got some really amazing people that are, you know, talking about your book here.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  It's so funny because Emma actually blurbed my book, so she's on the back cover. And, you know, I mean, it talks about literally building your own endowment. If we, if we take away the crass joke, what being well endowed is talking about an endowment. An endowment is a pile of money that helps you invest and grow and so that your mission can be continued into the future. And that is what I want for every single person. I want you to be able to talk to money with the people in your life, make those big decisions like homes and cars. I want you to have the retirement you deserve and still be able to leave something behind through estate planning and smart trust and will setup so that the people you care about most are taken care of.

• 1:11:31Emma Grede?

  I mean, end of, isn't that what we all want?

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:35Emma Grede?

  You have, I mean, this book is fantastic. I blurbed it because I read it and I loved it and I found it massively, massively valuable. I'm really proud of you. You're going to have another, another bestselling book, just, you know, just, they're all coming out of everywhere. Good for you. My last question for you, my love, what are you currently aspiring to?

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  I am trying to take a page out of your book and go from just being a creator to being a founder. I recently built a app. It's called Ask Dolly. You can check it out at AskDolly.com. And essentially what it does is it is going to be your financial companion in your pocket. People have sent me thousands of DMs and my greatest sadness is that I can't answer every single one. I literally wouldn't be able to get my job done. But with this, you can ask Dolly any question you want and get that financial knowledge on demand. So we can answer all those questions. You can learn that jargon. This is not ChatGPT. We are a registered investment advisor with the SEC. So this is good. And then if you ask a really personalized question, we actually do connect you with a certified financial planner.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  So you can get legitimate financial advice that is tailored to you. We also break down headlines. There's, you know, proprietary content that I'm only putting on Ask Dolly. And there is a wealth breakdown. So we do a health check. The same way you go and get your physical, this app is going to go through all of your accounts and say, hey, Emma, you're doing a really, really great job with debt pay down, but we need to beef up that emergency fund. And it'll give you advice on how to improve your finances until you are holistically well.

• 1:13:05Emma Grede?

  I love it. I mean, honestly, I'm so happy for you. Every time I speak to you, I get something. And I feel like you're just one of those people that I constantly recommend. I'm like, listen to this girl because she's just gonna open certain parts of your brain and make you think about things that you're perhaps not. And so much of this is about access. I talk all the time and I say, you know, it isn't small at the top, it's minuscule. And what I mean by that is there's so much incredible information that goes around and all we need is access to it. And I think that with what you're doing every day, you are giving us access to information. You're making us question the most important things.

• 1:13:45Emma Grede?

  And I really give you like huge kudos, huge credit for the app, for the book, for everything that you do. And I mean, you're a business.

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:13:54Emma Grede?

  You're a whole business.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  Thank you for your friendship. I feel like, you know, it's amazing to feel like throughout my entire lifetime, the greatest things that have ever happened to me have been because my mentors cared about me and people in my life were willing to take a swing and believe in me. And I'm so grateful that you've been a part of that.

• 1:14:11Emma Grede?

  Oh, I love you for that. What heaven, so good to speak to you, my darling. Thank you so much.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:14:17Emma Grede?

  So before we wrap, I want to leave you with this. When you understand your money, you move with more confidence, you make clearer decisions, and you're able to choose opportunities from a place of intention instead of from a place of fear. Building wealth is a skill, and like negotiation or leadership, it compounds over time. The earlier you start, the more optionality you create for yourself. In the next episode of our Career Girl's Guide, we're going to continue to build on this foundation with another practical conversation that's designed to help you move through your career with clarity and with confidence.

• 1:14:56Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Executive producer, Ashley McShan. Derek Brown. And me. Our executive producers from Odyssey, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren Legrosso. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox. Kurt Courtney. Andrew Steele. And Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale.

• 1:15:40Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sidney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Mikul, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelled G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E, with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.