Episode 395 - The Possession of Eleonore Zugun | The Devil’s Coin

After eleven-year-old Eleonore Zugun picked up a coin she was warned belonged to the Devil, strange things began happening around her. Stones flew through windows, objects moved on their own, and scratches, bite marks, and even needles mysteriously appeared on her body. Eleonore named the entity tormenting her Dracu, the devil, and the activity followed her from Romania to Vienna and eventually London. In more than 3,000 documented incidents, scientists, doctors, skeptics, and paranormal investigator Harry Price witnessed objects flying, marks appearing on Eleonore’s skin, and Dracu seemingly responding to investigators. Then, after two years, it suddenly stopped. Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited and produced by Jaimi Ryan. Original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone. This is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe, while your neighbor says,

• 0:44Speaker 00

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• 1:03Speaker 01

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• 1:54Corinne Vien?

  Danny Phantom.

• 1:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Welcome to Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 1:59Corinne Vien?

  Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 2:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We are your ghostesses, Edward Cullen and Danny Phantom.

• 2:06Corinne Vien?

  Your paranormal crushes for today.

• 2:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Corinne's paranormal crushes.

• 2:12Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I guess both of mine. I once chose Edward over Jacob, so.

• 2:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's a big choice.

• 2:17Corinne Vien?

  Really, my crush was, um, what's the, what's the little one with the little guy with the blonde hair? I think the actor's name is Jackson.

• 2:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In Twilight?

• 2:27Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, he's one of the siblings. He's partnered with Alice. You kind of look like Alice right now.

• 2:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I do kind of look like Alice right now.

• 2:33Corinne Vien?

  You have the Alice haircut.

• 2:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Here's the thing is, uh, this wig is gonna come off in two seconds because it's, one, the most itchy thing in the world, and, two, looks nothing like Danny Phantom's hair.

• 2:41Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 2:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  At all.

• 2:42Corinne Vien?

  Jasper, that's the name I was looking for.

• 2:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes, okay.

• 2:44Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it's also giving, um, we were talking about this before, but we can't remember her name, the X-Men woman who controls the weather.

• 2:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, it's giving, um, a little deranged.

• 2:54Corinne Vien?

  No, but I like it.

• 2:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, it's gone.

• 2:57Corinne Vien?

  I mean, have you ever seen a pregnant Edward Cullen? I'm not so sure. I'm at the point of pregnancy where I'm so uncomfortable. I can't reach anything. Yesterday, I thought that, uh, when I was outside, I kept thinking like an ant was crawling on my toes. No, my toe hair blowing in the wind, because I haven't been able to reach it to get rid of it.

• 3:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Toe hairs to shave them?

• 3:17Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 3:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I shaved mine this morning. Sorry to brag. So sorry. I'll pluck your toenails. I'll pluck your hair.

• 3:26Corinne Vien?

  When the wind is too high.

• 3:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It feels like an ant is crawling.

• 3:29Corinne Vien?

  Storm is rolling in. Oh, Storm, that's the X-Men character's name.

• 3:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is it? Oh, I don't watch X-Men.

• 3:36Corinne Vien?

  Okay, well, it's all coming back to me.

• 3:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I this morning, well, last night I had a dream that you went into labor and you responded saying, I woke up still pregnant.

• 3:45Corinne Vien?

  Yet again.

• 3:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But by the time this episode comes out, you will have child.

• 3:49Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it's like not fun anymore, so.

• 3:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't think this pregnancy's been very fun for you.

• 3:54Corinne Vien?

  No, I didn't feel this way with Noah at the very end. Like, I was like, outside, relaxing in my, like, dress or whatever when my contractions started.

• 4:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 4:03Corinne Vien?

  I'm done.

• 4:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But we're not, because it's spooky season and we have scary stories for you. And we did not do this the last two episodes, and we apologize, so we'll do it now.

• 4:15Corinne Vien?

  This is a good one to, to do it for.

• 4:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, set intentions. We are going to talk about, is it a possession?

• 4:21Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 4:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Corinne did the research, so I don't know about the case. So, sensitive material coming ahead, haunting material to follow. That does mean sometimes that you're opening a door and you might find ghosties coming in being like, oh, you left the door open for me? Great, I'm gonna sit in your passenger seat or watch you sleep tonight.

• 4:40Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 4:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And if you don't want that, we suggest that you don't listen while driving, or maybe don't listen in your home if it's already paranormally active. But if you do listen, wherever you decide to listen, we highly recommend setting intentions. And that can look like closing your eyes, just stating out loud, we are surrounded by love and light, nothing of ill intent is a welcome here. You can also say, boy, bye to anything negative. Oh, my ears are ringing.

• 5:10Corinne Vien?

  Trust your body's response. Trust your pets, trust your children if they start having nightmares. And just do what you need to do to close off your space and say, nope, this is mine and not yours. And even though we were gossiping about you, it was supposed to be behind your back.

• 5:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, you're not supposed to hear it.

• 5:28Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, exactly. This is mean girl energy today, and we're not inviting you into our gossip circle.

• 5:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, perfect.

• 5:37Corinne Vien?

  Great, lovely.

• 5:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Good luck.

• 5:39Corinne Vien?

  We're heading to Romania, 1925.

• 5:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 5:43Corinne Vien?

  So maybe having a century of distance between this possession might aid in people being less haunted.

• 5:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Maybe.

• 5:51Corinne Vien?

  There's a girl walking through a village to her grandmother's house. To grandmother's house we go.

• 5:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Over the river and through the woods?

• 5:57Corinne Vien?

  She's just 11 years old.

• 5:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 5:59Corinne Vien?

  Her name is Eleanor Zugun. It's spelled Z-U-G-U-N, but when I looked up the pronunciation, it said Zugun.

• 6:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Zugun, okay.

• 6:07Corinne Vien?

  Sorry if that is incorrect. Eleanor spots a coin lying on the road, and she bends down to pick it up. But Eleanor is not alone. She's with her cousins, and one of her cousins warns her, do not take that money. That is the devil's money. Which is like, that's something your cousin would say so that you leave it there and then they can snatch up the money for themselves, right?

• 6:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Also, so interesting because finding a coin is usually good luck.

• 6:29Corinne Vien?

  Right, so long as it's heads up.

• 6:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The other day for something, I flipped a coin just to see if I, it was deciding if I should go out to a second thing late at night. And I flipped a coin seven times, and I said, if I get heads, I'll go. Tails every single time.

• 6:46Corinne Vien?

  So you really wanted to go if you kept trying?

• 6:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, the people I was with kept being like, try it again, try it again, and every time, tails.

• 6:53Corinne Vien?

  You're like, sorry, did you go?

• 6:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I gotta go home. No, I went home.

• 6:55Corinne Vien?

  Good, listen, listen to the coin. I mean, the odds of that happening.

• 6:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, crazy.

• 6:59Corinne Vien?

  You're not supposed to go out.

• 7:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 7:01Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so Eleanor, she does not listen to her cousin. She picks up the coin anyway. And on their way to their grandmother's house, she stops at one of the stores and buys a bunch of sweets with the money.

• 7:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Aww.

• 7:11Corinne Vien?

  She eats all of them. She does not share with her cousins.

• 7:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is this just the story of like, don't eat too many sweets on Halloween?

• 7:19Corinne Vien?

  This might be the warning. Listen, listen to your cousins.

• 7:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Edward Cullen?

• 7:23Corinne Vien?

  Like, I don't know.

• 7:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I thought you were gonna say listen to Edward Cullen.

• 7:26Corinne Vien?

  Listen to Edward Cullen. Okay, so finally they get to grandmother's house. Eleanor is filled with her sweets from her found coin. And her grandmother finds out that she had done this, picked up a coin. And she gets reprimanded so hard by her grandma. Her grandma's like, I cannot believe that you swallowed the devil. That is what they're saying.

• 7:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My gosh, the drama.

• 7:48Corinne Vien?

  She says, you will never be free from him.

• 7:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, with this attitude.

• 7:53Corinne Vien?

  It's so dramatic.

• 7:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, does she got possessed?

• 7:56Corinne Vien?

  Right, yeah, so like, you're like, whoa, that's a bit harsh, like, that's a bit of an overreaction. And, you know, like, sometimes stories like this are a warning to kids or like, things like that, are, are warnings for children to behave or just like to avoid danger, but, um, yeah, this one was a pretty dark warning. And it doesn't really seem like a life lesson, like, don't take a coin off the streets, because that's swallowing the devil.

• 8:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, what an interesting lesson.

• 8:21Corinne Vien?

  Yes. For Eleanor, this was not a life lesson to be learned. This was a warning, because Eleanor would soon face the devil.

• 8:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Poor Eleanor, she's 11?

• 8:31Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, she's 11. This is the possession of Eleanor Zugun, one of the most tested and documented cases of poltergeist activity during the 20th century. It's another case where I'm like, how do we not research this before?

• 8:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 8:43Corinne Vien?

  I think because it was old enough.

• 8:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Kind of similar to the, I went, like, two episodes ago, three episodes ago.

• 8:49Corinne Vien?

  There are so many similarities between those two.

• 8:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mystery.

• 8:52Corinne Vien?

  The ambusher's mystery, there are so many similarities where you're gonna be like, oh, my God.

• 8:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because they follow the MO. They have, they have their motives and.

• 9:01Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 9:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Motives, operandi, is that MO? Yeah.

• 9:04Corinne Vien?

  I don't know, you're doing better than me here. It is crazy, and I think that in the past, too, when we research possession cases and haunted cases, so many of them seem maybe like slightly more attractive when we're researching them, because it's like, this inspired this movie or something like that. And so I guess we glazed over this one, but here we are.

• 9:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Heard of it.

• 9:22Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so to give some background, Eleanor Zugun was born on May 24th, 1913, in the village of Talpa in southern Romania. Her family, it was a family of farmers that lived in a very rural area. And as seen many times in rural areas and places like this, they're, they are deeply, deeply rooted in tradition. And Eleanor's village was exactly that. When her mom died, when she was very, very young, the community stepped up around her and helped raise her, warning her of the dangers of the world, attempting to teach her how to survive evil that existed. So there was a lot of like superstitions within the village and like neighboring villages as well. So basically, like, one day evil will try to tempt you, but just behave and listen to our warnings.

• 10:04Corinne Vien?

  That temptation would come in February of 1925, when Eleanor, 11 years old, was walking with some of her cousins to visit her grandmother in a nearby village called Buchai. On the way there, she spots a coin lying on the road. One of her cousins warns her, don't touch that, because an evil spirit likes to leave coins to tempt the innocent, so you're taking the devil's money. But she's 11, she's like, that's a ridiculous story. I'm a preteen.

• 10:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Also, at this time, like, I imagine any found money would be like a welcome.

• 10:34Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 10:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know.

• 10:35Corinne Vien?

  It feels like good luck, like you were saying, like, oh, my gosh.

• 10:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And also like, ooh, what prize? For me?

• 10:41Corinne Vien?

  Right, yeah, and it really was just for her, because she ignores her cousin, stops at the store, gets some sweets, does not share with her other cousins that are on the journey to grandma's house.

• 10:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sounds like me.

• 10:53Corinne Vien?

  But also like in her defense, they were just telling her not to pick it up.

• 10:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Why would you share?

• 10:57Corinne Vien?

  Well, then if you don't want it.

• 10:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 10:59Corinne Vien?

  Well, and the story goes, she didn't share, but did the cousins even want it if they're

• 11:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If they're like, that's the devil's money.

• 11:04Corinne Vien?

  That just bought the devil's sweets.

• 11:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Exactly.

• 11:07Corinne Vien?

  So who knows? But grandma finds out, says you've swallowed the devil and you will never be free from him. Very ominous.

• 11:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My grandma gave me an American Girl doll. Her grandma gave her the devil.

• 11:17Corinne Vien?

  Gave her the devil. And quite literally, the very next day, stones began to fly.

• 11:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Stones?

• 11:22Corinne Vien?

  There's no escalation. It's just straight to it. Literal stones were being hurled against the grandmother's house, breaking the windows, and all of it seemed to be targeted at Eleanor, like wherever she was. Small objects started moving around her. And this was, was when she was like, oh no, maybe I did swallow the devil and that was the devil's money. So she's starting to get freaked out. The warnings were very real, paranormal activity, no ramp up period, just like straight to hurling rocks. But have no fear, because this will be over soon, right? She's visiting her grandmother's house in another village. She's gonna be gone in a few days back home, gets to avoid the poltergeist.

• 11:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You hope.

• 12:00Corinne Vien?

  But no, because three days later, she returned home and the entity followed her all the way back. Her family was not a like, let's fuck around and find out type of crew, because this was a community of very superstitious people. So immediately, they called the local priest. The priest came over, witnessed stones being hurled at the windows. One went through a window and landed on the kitchen table. He then picked it up, marked it with a cross. I mean, this is, this is, I know I keep relating everything back to Widows Bay, because I'm just gonna obsess about it for like three years. This feels like a scene from Widows Bay. A demon throws a rock at him. He grabs the rock, draws a cross and throws it back.

• 12:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 12:40Corinne Vien?

  Like curls it back out the window. But that did not protect Eleanor, because instead, seconds later, the stone came flying all the way back through the window again. So basically, marking something with a cross was not gonna do anything at all.

• 12:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Demon's like, that did nothing.

• 12:55Corinne Vien?

  Right. And so the priest, you would think, is like, okay, don't worry, I have another thing to do. I have a rulebook and steps to follow. But no, he goes, oh, well, that was everything I thought of doing. So he left and never came back.

• 13:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ever?

• 13:08Corinne Vien?

  No. And this object wielding entity would follow Eleanor everywhere. At school, teachers started reporting the objects were moving without explanation. And one teacher said he watched a can of water on one end of a bench rise 18 inches into the air, rotate in half circle, and then float to the other end without spilling a single drop.

• 13:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, well, what if she's actually Matilda and she's not actually possessed?

• 13:29Corinne Vien?

  It does feel like that.

• 13:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 13:31Corinne Vien?

  It is really, we're gonna, there's like connections to the Conjuring House, there's connections to the subjects you covered a couple

• 13:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 13:39Corinne Vien?

  weeks ago. There's a lot of like, what's going on? Is Eleanor or is it something else?

• 13:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Or is it a combination?

• 13:44Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it could be. And it's also weird, because it like just started happening all at once.

• 13:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 13:48Corinne Vien?

  After being warned of taking the devil's money. So that's why it feels like it's something else.

• 13:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know, like the energy that an 11 year old would put out after like being berated by your cousins, and then your grandma saying the devil's gonna follow you, I'd be pissed.

• 14:02Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, heightened emotions. She might be very Matilda here.

• 14:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 14:05Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so a lot is happening at school, so much so the teachers are making like actual documented reports of what's going on and filing these statements. And kids and parents are now talking about it, because kids are going home. It's a talk around town or talk around this village. And so now the whole town knows that Eleanor is the responsible party for this activity. She took payment from the devil, and it's her fault. This little 11 year old.

• 14:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And that's what's going around town.

• 14:29Corinne Vien?

  Yep. So now her desperate family is like, we have to do something. She cannot stay here. She's affecting the entire town. And she needs, she needs help. So they send her to the monastery of Gorovei, hoping that this holy ground and living with all the sisters and all the prayer.

• 14:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But she's 11.

• 14:47Corinne Vien?

  She's 11. Would break whatever attached itself to her. So they literally just shipped her off to the monastery. Priest conducted an exorcism on her, but all of the activity just continued. So it did nothing. Or disturbances, quote unquote, the disturbances continued. And so this was another moment where the church would bail on her. So they're like, oops, we can't help you, exorcism didn't work. So now you gotta go somewhere else. And so I think they work with her family and they ship her off to a mental asylum.

• 15:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, I was gonna say, at least they send her to this monastery, but.

• 15:20Corinne Vien?

  Nope. So then 11 years old, away from her family, with an entity stalking her, she is shipped from strange place to strange place.

• 15:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And you know she is not being treated well?

• 15:30Corinne Vien?

  No. She does end up somewhere that treats her well.

• 15:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, good.

• 15:34Corinne Vien?

  So that, that is to come. So we have some hope for Eleanor very soon.

• 15:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 18:58Corinne Vien?

  While Eleanor sat in the asylum, the story got out. So prior to this, it was just like a story within her community, within the like children and parents and, and people at school. But now, a local Romanian newspaper ran a piece about the case on April 18th, 1925, and this started to spread. And people were reading it, and then eventually reached a German spiritualist organization in Berlin. So this organization, they caught wind of everything through the newspaper article, and they sent someone over to the asylum to investigate.

• 19:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, that's good.

• 19:31Corinne Vien?

  His name was Fritz Grunwald, or Grunwald. And he is a very interesting character in this story, because he actually dies before he can tell us what he found.

• 19:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting.

• 19:43Corinne Vien?

  He was a trained engineer. He looked into cases like this, looking for anomalies and like definitely operated with skepticism. So it wasn't like he was out to disprove things off the bat. He wasn't like, oh, I mean, I like catch people in the act sort of guy. But he was more like, I need to understand from like an analytical perspective, everything that's happening, what could be contributing to this.

• 20:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Scientific method.

• 20:04Corinne Vien?

  Totally. So he goes to Romania in May of 1925. He checks out Eleanor from the asylum. I don't know if he needed parents' permission.

• 20:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm like, wait, why is that so easy? There's a strange man.

• 20:15Corinne Vien?

  It's a little disturbing.

• 20:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Getting an 11 year old girl out of the asylum.

• 20:19Corinne Vien?

  But he brings her back to the monastery. So she's staying at the monastery. He's not just like, come home with me, little girl.

• 20:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, good.

• 20:25Corinne Vien?

  So she goes to the monastery, and he would observe her there for several days.

• 20:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 20:29Corinne Vien?

  He then published a short statement saying simply that he was convinced the phenomena he had witnessed was genuinely paranormal.

• 20:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so we at least have that.

• 20:38Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm. But then he died of a heart attack before he was able to write his full report. So we don't actually know fully what he witnessed.

• 20:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Does he not have a journal?

• 20:46Corinne Vien?

  I don't know.

• 20:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Someone's, someone, go check your basement. Find this journal.

• 20:50Corinne Vien?

  Find his journal. So he passes away. Eleanor's still haunted, right? It seems like everyone who comes in contact with her is just like, yep, you're haunted, and then doesn't actually do anything to help her. But now, with all this like hubbub about everything that's going on in multiple countries and multiple organizations, hearing or like catching wind of what's going on with Eleanor, she caught the attention of royalty.

• 21:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A queen?

• 21:14Corinne Vien?

  Enter the Countess Wasilco von Sarecki. Her first name is Zoe, so I'll either call her-

• 21:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was gonna say Countess is maybe what we call her.

• 21:23Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, maybe I'll call her Zoe or Countess. Yeah, one of the two. Okay, so the Countess, she's twenty eight years old. She's a Romanian speaking Austrian aristocrat. Her family had once owned the land that Eleanor's family farmed.

• 21:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 21:35Corinne Vien?

  So they had a lot of ties to like-

• 21:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure.

• 21:37Corinne Vien?

  The area, but like things were changing and being sold off. Okay, but she had spent six years studying parapsychology and attending investigative sittings with mediums.

• 21:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I feel like if you are a Countess, especially in that era of time, you could kind of just like do whatever you wanted.

• 21:54Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 21:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So the fact that she chose to study parapsychology makes me very happy for her. Yeah.

• 22:00Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, she was one of us.

• 22:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. She's a big fan of Two Girls One Guest.

• 22:04Corinne Vien?

  Totally, but like she also would be someone who writes in and says, I'm a skeptic.

• 22:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then has a lot of a million stories, yeah.

• 22:12Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, because she was super intrigued with the paranormal, but she was also someone who spent a lot of time keeping an eye out for frauds and trying to like expose frauds.

• 22:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fair, fair.

• 22:20Corinne Vien?

  So it wasn't that she didn't believe in the paranormal, but she thought that there was a lot of like fraudulent psychic activity in the area. And she was, she was um making sure people weren't falling victim to all these frauds. So she was into that before she met Eleanor.

• 22:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 22:34Corinne Vien?

  So now she hears of Eleanor and her interest has peaked. So the Countess Zoe goes and meets Eleanor for the first time in September of nineteen twenty five. So I believe Eleanor is still eleven. So a lot's just like happening at once.

• 22:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Seriously.

• 22:47Corinne Vien?

  And unlike before where she was pretty skeptical of psychics and uncovered tricks and deception, she meets Eleanor and is pretty much immediately convinced that what she's seeing is real. That this little girl is plagued with a poltergeist. Within months, Eleanor had left Romania and went to go live with the Countess in Vienna.

• 23:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow.

• 23:10Corinne Vien?

  So at first you're like, yes.

• 23:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, okay, is this the magical place that she gets to live?

• 23:13Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 23:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She lives with the Countess?

• 23:15Corinne Vien?

  Yes. It's not like in a castle, but it's amazing. Like she's into this nice ass aristocrat's apartment in Vienna, Austria.

• 23:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 23:24Corinne Vien?

  Like so nice. Definitely way, way better than the asylum or monastery for sure. But let's remember, she's in a new country with people who are kind of strangers.

• 23:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Absolutely strangers.

• 23:36Corinne Vien?

  Yes. Uh, there's another language being spoken around her. She's not being brought there as a friend initially, but under scientific observation. And at this point, she's just turned twelve years old.

• 23:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Poor baby.

• 23:48Corinne Vien?

  And this is when activity starts to ramp up even more.

• 23:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like I just wonder, listen, and I'm speaking out of my bum here, which has a major wedgie, but I, I just wonder if maybe we fought demons with like love. Like if you just held this twelve year old girl and just gave her all of your love and hugged her, like-

• 24:07Corinne Vien?

  Would it go away?

• 24:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Could you defeat the demons?

• 24:10Corinne Vien?

  Right. Because is a demon even a demon or is it a projection or thing that eats, is like formed and eats off of our own?

• 24:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 24:18Corinne Vien?

  Energy?

• 24:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Negative energies around us?

• 24:20Corinne Vien?

  Although I don't know, because there's so many other.

• 24:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's so, yeah. This is why I just am hyped. I'm throwing it out there as a, let's try love.

• 24:28Corinne Vien?

  All you need is love.

• 24:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Love.

• 24:30Corinne Vien?

  Unfortunately, things are going to escalate.

• 24:34Corinne Vien?

  So the first phase had what researchers called recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis. So basically, stones are being thrown, objects are being moved, kind of associated with poltergeist activity for centuries. But it's also like, why are these things moving? Is she responsible for it? Is it, is it a poltergeist?

• 24:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 24:53Corinne Vien?

  But things are falling for no reason. It happened at Eleanor's grandma's house, it happened at her home, her school, wherever she went. But in Vienna, starting in early nineteen twenty six, something new began, a new stage of the haunting. Eleanor began being physically attacked.

• 25:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so now we can't really say it's Matilda.

• 25:12Corinne Vien?

  Right. Scratches, welts, bite marks appeared on her skin. And these appeared in real time, in daylight, in front of witnesses, on parts of her body that she could not reach. The bite marks were measured and photographed and they said that it did look a lot like the pattern of her own teeth. But the bite marks would be on her face, the back of her neck, her head, like places she physically could not like reach around and bite. Yet it was the impression of the teeth was her dental impression. Yeah. Very freaky.

• 25:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That is really, really freaky.

• 25:48Corinne Vien?

  Scratches would materialize before people's eyes. She would just be like sitting there with everyone and suddenly scream and cry out. And people quickly go over and tend to her and watch as these marks would form on her skin.

• 26:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Jeez.

• 26:01Corinne Vien?

  So all these people are experiencing this around her, but we haven't talked about Eleanor's response and like what she thinks of everything so far. So she was actually, she gave the entity a name. She called it Dracu, the devil. And instead of responding in terror, she kind of treated it, not with love, but like more like it was a nuisance.

• 26:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which I appreciate because I do feel like sometimes that attitude does help them go away.

• 26:24Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, or like at least prevents it from escalating as quickly as it could.

• 26:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because fear is like the worst thing you can give it.

• 26:29Corinne Vien?

  Hmm. Yeah, and she was trying to do some things to appease it. So like she would leave out food sometimes to see if like, maybe that peace offering would let Dracu leave her alone for a bit.

• 26:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, maybe the candies what drew it in.

• 26:40Corinne Vien?

  Right, he just needed those. You didn't share your candies with her? That was supposed to be for you to go purchase it because I can't purchase it because I'm just an entity and then give it to me.

• 26:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And because you didn't, now I'm gonna try to possess you and taste it inside of you.

• 26:53Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, that's a disturbing way to put it, but kind of accurate? Because Dracu was never satisfied, no matter how much she gave him, no matter how many offerings. The devil was there and he was going to take Eleanor. By January of nineteen twenty six, formal scientific investigations began in Vienna and some eighteen people spent time with her and the Countess, becoming regular witnesses, including Austrian scientists, the Countess's household staff, like everyone who worked there also, whether they wanted to or not, ended up being witnesses.

• 27:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is so tough because like, and we'll even talk about it in next week's episode, but I just, this poor girl is now without her family. And I feel like the lack of family support probably makes it worse and she's so young and on her own.

• 27:42Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 27:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It makes me sad.

• 27:44Corinne Vien?

  It's like you need, you need help, like someone needs to buy you clothes, someone needs to feed you, someone needs to talk through life with you, someone needs to help like-

• 27:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Raise you, be a parent.

• 27:54Corinne Vien?

  And right now it's, it's the Countess who's in her late twenties.

• 27:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Being used as like a test subject, which like even if they have the best intentions in the world, there is a, they're gaining something out of this experience more than Eleanor.

• 28:07Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it's not out of like the goodness of her heart, that she's just taking care of this plagued, now kind of orphaned girl.

• 28:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 28:15Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. So there's a ton of different witnesses, a ton of different researchers brought in. And over the course of the investigation, the Countess logged every incident that she personally witnessed, along with the names of corroborating witnesses. She logged some three thousand and sixty total incidents. That is a ton.

• 28:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That is so many.

• 28:35Corinne Vien?

  Eight hundred and eighty four of those had at least one other witness present.

• 28:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Damn.

• 28:39Corinne Vien?

  Huge number. Also, beginning in late March of nineteen twenty six, something even more disturbing started. And this is gonna remind you so much of the great Amherst mystery.

• 28:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 28:50Corinne Vien?

  Eleanor's hands and fingers would suddenly and repeatedly be pricked as though by needles. And sometimes the needles would literally be there.

• 29:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What is that?

• 29:02Corinne Vien?

  I don't know.

• 29:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  How? Why?

• 29:03Corinne Vien?

  Physically materialize out of nowhere, just like in your story. And sometimes be found embedded in her flesh. And no one could account for where the needles came from. There were no needles missing from anywhere. It just like suddenly appeared out of nowhere and is now stuck in the body of her skin.

• 29:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Geez.

• 29:22Corinne Vien?

  So that's super weird.

• 29:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And terrible for this child. Yeah.

• 29:26Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so now enter Harry Price because it's his era, so why wouldn't he be here?

• 29:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I hope he wasn't like a terrible man.

• 29:34Corinne Vien?

  I know. He does like his way into so many of these stories.

• 29:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 29:38Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, and if you have no idea who this guy is, he basically is one of the most famous psychical, psychical, I can never say the word, psychical researchers in British history and was very present at this time in the age of spiritualism and-

• 29:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, his name comes up a lot in possession cases or exorcisms and paranormal stories.

• 29:59Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 30:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I feel like I've, I've put him on my list to do a full episode on, but it's almost impossible to just do one episode on him.

• 30:06Corinne Vien?

  Well, because he's touched like every case within like a forty-

• 30:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  One hundred percent.

• 30:10Corinne Vien?

  Decade span. Okay, so Price, Harry Price, he hears about Eleanor and he's like, ooh, I'm getting myself on the train to Vienna. I gotta see this girl. So he arrives there on April thirtieth nineteen twenty six. He observes Eleanor over three separate sessions at the Countess's apartment. And then he published his observations in the Journal of the American Society of Psychical Research. He wrote that she was very intelligent, she was very bright, she had a very sunny disposition.

• 30:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What?

• 30:35Corinne Vien?

  There is a spider on my-

• 30:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Where?

• 30:39Corinne Vien?

  Right here. Okay, well, I'll let you do your thing, but-

• 30:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so little, it's a baby.

• 30:44Corinne Vien?

  A little bit further away. It is a tiny little spider. Ew, I hope it didn't come out of my wig or something.

• 30:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, that gave me, that's the most horrifying thing that we're, we've talked about today.

• 30:54Corinne Vien?

  I can't. It's off. Sorry.

• 30:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sounds, sounds like a duella.

• 30:59Corinne Vien?

  Yuck, yuck, yuck. Okay.

• 31:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So-

• 31:03Corinne Vien?

  It's scarier than the topic at hand.

• 31:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I truly my whole potty.

• 31:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm not well.

• 31:11Corinne Vien?

  I'm like, why is it suddenly right here? Where did it come from? Okay, now I want to take everything off. I'm so, so sicked out. Oh my God, I gotta. The peacoats gone.

• 31:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Getting naked.

• 31:23Corinne Vien?

  I'll, I'll keep the blue shirt on because I, it was mine and has been washed a million times. Not new, out of the package. Okay. So he wrote that she was like very nice and upbeat and kind and, and seems very smart, but that she behaved a lot younger than she was.

• 31:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, because she has trauma. And she was abandoned by her family.

• 31:44Corinne Vien?

  Right. And like, does she have friends her age? I only hear of her interacting with adults.

• 31:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 31:48Corinne Vien?

  So, kind of weird. So while observing her, he said, "A steel letter opener flew across the room, and there was also a small mirror that floated over a partition between rooms. A cushion moved off of a chair while both he and the countess and Eleanor were in his direct line of sight. So it just, they couldn't have done any sort of like trickery.

• 32:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 32:08Corinne Vien?

  And he watched bite marks and scratches appear on her skin and described them as, quote, "teeth marks, long scratches, oval, annular, elliptical, and other marks of varying shapes."

• 32:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Poor child.

• 32:21Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And so just like the countess, Harry Price thought that, "Oh my God, I'm witnessing a legitimate case of paranormal activity. There's no trickery. This is not a scam." And so he is like, "I need to invite you guys to come to London so I can, I can research you more." They go and they arrive.

• 32:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So this girl is really getting to see the world, but it also further and further away from her family.

• 32:45Corinne Vien?

  From her little tiny village, picking up the devil's money to traveling with a countess and some of the like most influential names in the paranormal world at the time.

• 32:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I hope she's getting paid, which probably isn't.

• 32:58Corinne Vien?

  Oh, definitely not. Yeah. No. So she goes with the countess in September of 1926. And what follows will be one of the most documented paranormal investigations of the 20th century. They're at Price's National Laboratory.

• 33:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Casual.

• 33:13Corinne Vien?

  Eleanor is examined by doctors, scientists. She's photographed, she's monitored. The skin markings appear repeatedly under controlled conditions. So again, this is just like more and more proof that she is not faking it in any way. The entity, which Eleanor had named Dracula, would respond to investigators through tappings. So they would ask questions and it would tap like so many numbers, number of taps in response.

• 33:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 33:41Corinne Vien?

  And would also move objects from room to room. So like something, they'd be looking for something. It's the classic, like, you look for your cellphone, you can't find it.

• 33:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then it shows up.

• 33:50Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Yeah. Or like, whatever. It would respond to their questions and their asks. So the story's covered by the London newspapers. Reporters start coming, more scientists are coming. The director of Bethlehem Psychiatric Hospital also came to observe and confirm what everyone was saying.

• 34:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 34:06Corinne Vien?

  And a documenterist actually came and filmed her and captured the skin marking phenomena.

• 34:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Should we not have that video?

• 34:12Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 34:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's hard to find.

• 34:13Corinne Vien?

  But there are a bunch of pictures of the markings included if you're watching on YouTube. Carl Zimmer came and brought in multiple doctors with him too, and plenty of skeptics and professionals were coming and going. So basically like, she has been seen by countless.

• 34:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A revolving door.

• 34:28Corinne Vien?

  It is. She's examined, she's photographed, she's tested, she's poked, she's prodded. She has strangers touching her.

• 34:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So sad for her.

• 34:35Corinne Vien?

  Yes. Very exhausting and kind of gross for this young little girl who was now 13 years old at the time. So two years of being haunted by this entity, Dracula, and being away from her family. Cause like pretty quickly they sent her off. At some point Eleanor would start to go into these sort of trances and she would write, AKA automatic writing. Automatic writing, we've talked about, about it before. It's basically where like someone goes into some sort of trance and accesses this sort of medium or like vessel for a spirit to come through and write a message or draw something. So Eleanor, her like reading and writing level was academically pretty low. She was a bright girl, but like she didn't have a ton of schooling.

• 35:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 35:18Corinne Vien?

  Yet in the sessions, what came out when she was automatic writing was like, people were saying that it was a bit beyond her own level of comprehension.

• 35:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting.

• 35:27Corinne Vien?

  So it was very different from what she would do.

• 35:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That it was like a paranormal thing.

• 35:30Corinne Vien?

  Yes. Are you bothered that I'm letting the?

• 35:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's small.

• 35:33Corinne Vien?

  Spider.

• 35:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I'm like, is it gonna go into your computer?

• 35:36Corinne Vien?

  Oh God, I hope not.

• 35:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Just hanging out.

• 35:40Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I removed my drink so it didn't go in my straw or something.

• 35:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was worried about that too.

• 35:44Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. So the countess, and now having been around Eleanor for like over a year, starts to develop her own theory about the phenomena. And she said that she thinks it's actually Eleanor's unconscious mind responsible for everything.

• 35:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Matilda.

• 35:59Corinne Vien?

  Very Matilda. You called it right away. So she's not a fraud, but she's not conscious of what she's doing.

• 36:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then also how, like, there's a part of me that it feels easier to say demon.

• 36:10Corinne Vien?

  It's like trying to hang and leave. Here, why don't I help you out here?

• 36:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Where you wanna go? Is there a new like school pet, class pet? Where you gonna put it?

• 36:19Corinne Vien?

  I don't know.

• 36:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I just don't want it near me.

• 36:21Corinne Vien?

  Should I bring it outside?

• 36:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure.

• 36:24Corinne Vien?

  Show the camera?

• 36:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A spider was saved today.

• 36:27Corinne Vien?

  Yes. Just a wee baby.

• 36:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But what I was saying was, even if that's true, that it is something that she's not in control of or conscious of with her own mind, it almost feels easier to say it's a demon. Because like, that feels more understandable than this idea that we have that much power within our own brains.

• 36:49Corinne Vien?

  Right. Like it's saying that she has some.

• 36:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She's a superhero.

• 36:52Corinne Vien?

  Totally. Like unconscious psychic force that she's unknowingly unlocking.

• 36:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Could we, like, if we could tap into that and all of us have that power?

• 37:02Corinne Vien?

  Oh my God, yeah.

• 37:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Scary.

• 37:04Corinne Vien?

  But okay, so the countess says that she thinks it's generated by repressed emotion and physically, like externally manifesting, which makes sense given her conditions and everything that she's going through.

• 37:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Trauma that she's been through. Yeah.

• 37:16Corinne Vien?

  And also up until the moment where she picked up the coin on her way to her grandma's house, we have no backstory on like what her family dynamic was like, what she'd been through, her relationship was with her grandma or her cousins or like, it seems like it came out of nowhere, but maybe it was boiling and boiling and boiling and boiling. Okay. And now this part is very disturbing, but it's kind of a sign of the times.

• 37:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 37:37Corinne Vien?

  So the countess also believed that Eleanor had developed powerfully conflicted sexual feelings about her father, like her own father.

• 37:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 37:46Corinne Vien?

  But this was also a period, the era of Freud, where Freud is like, all your issues stem back to you having a crush on your mommy or daddy, which says a lot about Freud himself, I think.

• 37:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 37:58Corinne Vien?

  Um, so there's a lot of influence there. So I don't know without Freud if the countess would have thought the same thing. Maybe it was just like the popular opinion to have.

• 38:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay. Well, my brain goes to something even more disturbing.

• 38:08Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like was there abuse?

• 38:11Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 38:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And there was mention of it from Eleanor, which led the countess to believe this.

• 38:18Corinne Vien?

  Which in your coverage a couple of weeks ago of, what was it? The great?

• 38:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Great Amherst mystery?

• 38:25Corinne Vien?

  Great Amherst mystery. I had mentioned the movie An American Haunting, which if people haven't seen it, sorry to spoil it 27 years later, but it's all basically a metaphor for first daughter being abused by her father and the family doing little as witnesses.

• 38:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That humans are worse than any paranormal being.

• 38:45Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm. Actually, this is like so like gross that I did this and sometimes I think back to it and I'm like, I can't believe that like, LNU didn't like report me.

• 38:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What are you about to reveal about yourself?

• 38:58Corinne Vien?

  I took the screenwriting, or not screenwriting, the um, playwriting class. And one of our things was like to write the most disturbing and just like a really dark play. And I wrote about royalty. It was a royal family and the scene was they were going to celebrate the daughter's 16th birthday. And she thinks that her 16th birthday is gonna be this like wonderful magical thing where like she becomes the princess or whatever. It's uncovered that becoming a princess is actually becoming enslaved to your own father.

• 39:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting. I mean, I'm not surprised I didn't report that because I did some really fucked up shit in my screenwriting classes and way worse than that, but.

• 39:38Corinne Vien?

  But like you go around the class and everyone's like reading your play, like.

• 39:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The, the prompt was to do the most fucked up thing.

• 39:44Corinne Vien?

  And also it was royalty. There's a lot of incest there.

• 39:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, absolutely. They used to literally, for consummating the marriage, people at the party would go watch you have sex.

• 39:52Corinne Vien?

  Watch, yeah.

• 39:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, to make sure it happened.

• 39:54Corinne Vien?

  My God. Yeah. Anyhow.

• 39:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Humans are disturbing. Okay. So yeah, that part's um, gross.

• 40:01Corinne Vien?

  But basically the countess was like, perhaps all of these feelings are manifesting because it's some sort of like unconscious self punishment that she's putting herself through based on what is happening to her.

• 40:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure.

• 40:11Corinne Vien?

  Harry Price largely agreed. He was like, "That sounds like that makes sense." So I don't know what Eleanor said or what she agreed, or if she was even presented with this.

• 40:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not even Eleanor.

• 40:23Corinne Vien?

  It doesn't really consider her at all, except for the fact that she has just like admitted that this entity is named Dracula.

• 40:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 40:29Corinne Vien?

  Otherwise it heavily relies on what is reported by the people who are researching her. Okay. So with all of these different theories swirling around, people are basically like, okay, if Eleanor's mind believes that she's being attacked by Dracula with enough conviction, could she actually be creating these wounds on her own body? Like the teeth marks that are on her collarbone, on her cheek, on the back of her neck. Like, is it actually her teeth?

• 40:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, cause there's also, I mean, I feel like there've been studies where people have nightmares and they get hurt in the dreams and they wake up with those wounds. And it's like, your mind convinces your body that you're actually injured and then it like forms an injury.

• 41:07Corinne Vien?

  Even waking, there's been studies like that where like someone, where you go into like a meditative state and convince yourself that you have a bruise on your arm or something and then a bruise will appear.

• 41:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. The mind is powerful. I'll give it that.

• 41:19Corinne Vien?

  Yes. So we know that can't happen. But what about the stones being thrown and the needles materializing out of nowhere, embedded in the flesh of this poor young girl? How do you explain that?

• 41:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The teeth marks being the exact same impression of her own. Like it's one thing to be like, oh, I think I got bit. And a bite mark appear on you. It's another to have it look exactly like your teeth.

• 41:40Corinne Vien?

  Like, I don't know what mine looked like.

• 41:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, I couldn't, I couldn't make that happen. Right. Yeah.

• 41:45Corinne Vien?

  Unless you bit yourself and then studied it, which would be so weird. Anyway, whatever. Colin Wilson, a British writer who wrote extensively about the paranormal, actually pushed back on the Freudian interpretation and argued that if this phenomena was unconscious self punishment for a press guilt, why would the self punishment continue for two full years? Now, in a comfortable, secure, warm household, the Eleanor said she genuinely loved living with the Countess, and she's well taken care of. So like, why would it continue to escalate and manifest and just spiral?

• 42:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 42:21Corinne Vien?

  It's like, that doesn't make sense, especially if it's unconscious. If it's conscious, okay, sure, because she's looking for

• 42:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 42:26Corinne Vien?

  to, to stay there.

• 42:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 42:27Corinne Vien?

  But otherwise, the argument doesn't make sense. As much as we've said, like, okay, Eleanor is obviously the subject to a bunch of like, random adults coming in and constantly threatening her. The Countess did have Eleanor's back, did try to do everything she could to make her feel safe and welcome. And actually, at one point, a German critic published an accusation that Eleanor had been caught in her deception that she was a fraud, which is just a total lie. And the Countess sued him. She didn't succeed and like, he didn't go through.

• 42:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She threatened, yeah.

• 42:53Corinne Vien?

  She threatened, and I think that that was like one of two times that she was just like, no, you don't get to just make shit up.

• 42:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're gonna talk poorly about my little Eleanor? Yeah, I'm gonna sue you.

• 43:01Corinne Vien?

  Yep, she did.

• 43:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I appreciate when people with money and influence use their power for good.

• 43:06Corinne Vien?

  Right, it's like, don't be an asshole. Like, write about something else if you're trying to get the attention.

• 43:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 43:12Corinne Vien?

  How about do something that's like, true and impressive, instead of just trying to ride on the coattails?

• 43:18Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 43:20Corinne Vien?

  Activity continued.

• 43:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A lot of us here at Two Girls One Ghost have dealt with some paranormal activity. And there's a lot of what ifs. What if the demon comes out of my closet and pulls my toes? And for Corinne, her intrusive thoughts go so much further. And for a lot of people, that is not just anxiety, that is OCD, and most of them have no idea. Corinne has OCD, and real OCD is persistent, unwanted intrusive thoughts that feel totally out of character, along with mental or physical behaviors that you feel driven to do to get relief, even when that relief never actually comes. And these thoughts can feel very real, which is what makes them so upsetting. But here's the good news. OCD is highly treatable with the right kind of specialized therapy. And that is where NoCD comes in.

• 44:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  NoCD is the world's leading provider of OCD treatment, covered by insurance for over 138 million Americans. Licensed therapists at NoCD specialize in ERP therapy in live, face-to-face virtual sessions with support sessions in between, so you're never facing OCD alone. If you are struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NoCD can help. Book a free 15-minute call to get started at nocd.com. I have a new makeup product alert that I have to tell you all about. It is from Thrive Cosmetics. They have the Focus Eyeshadow Palette that completely changed my eyeshadow routine because it simplified it. I feel like there have been so many times where I'm like, ah, where do I put what color and how do I do this?

• 44:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But their Focus Eyeshadow Palette has four essential shades, and each are labeled with where it goes, like the lid, the crease, define and highlight, so you know exactly where to apply them. Corinne and I are both obsessed with the Liquid Lash Extensions Mascara. And we're not the only ones, because it has over 40,000 five-star reviews. When I was at my brother's wedding, I did my mom's makeup and used entirely Thrive Cosmetics products. And she was trying to steal them from me, and I was like, back off, get your own, which means I'm gonna buy her some, because I love her. And everyone should love their makeup as much as I love mine. Plus, all of Thrive Cosmetics products are 100% vegan, cruelty-free, and made with clean, skin-loving ingredients that work with your skin, not against it.

• 45:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 46:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 46:50Corinne Vien?

  On February 14th, 1927, Eleanor had her first menstrual period. She was 13 years old. And immediately, the paranormal phenomena started to decline. It's like the opposite of what you hear.

• 47:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it didn't just stop all of a sudden, it just started to slowly decline.

• 47:05Corinne Vien?

  Like, the second she got her period?

• 47:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 47:07Corinne Vien?

  It started to decline.

• 47:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, but it didn't just like immediately stop?

• 47:10Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 47:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 47:11Corinne Vien?

  She got her period in February. By June of 1927, zero paranormal activity.

• 47:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Damn.

• 47:17Corinne Vien?

  Five months of having her period, and everything stops. Dracu left, whatever this entity that had been following this poor girl for some two years now, I think it was like two years and two months, I read on one article.

• 47:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's a long time.

• 47:30Corinne Vien?

  Across two countries, from asylums to monasteries to

• 47:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Countess's apartments?

• 47:34Corinne Vien?

  Laboratories. Yeah, just stopped because Eleanor got her period. And this thing never came back. The Countess funded Eleanor's training to become a hairdresser and manicurist in Vienna.

• 47:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, I'm very happy about this.

• 47:47Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 47:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 47:47Corinne Vien?

  And in March of 1928, Eleanor returned to Romania. She built a life there, she got married, she did become a widow. And in the years later, she ran a very successful hairdressing business. Harry Price tracked her down in 1945 and found that she was alive and well, and the phenomena had never returned.

• 48:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's crazy.

• 48:08Corinne Vien?

  Uh huh. In the 1960s, she reunited in Vienna with the Countess.

• 48:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, that's so special.

• 48:14Corinne Vien?

  I know.

• 48:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 48:15Corinne Vien?

  And then in 1998, at the age of 84 years old, Eleanor passed away in her home country of Romania.

• 48:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Lived a long life.

• 48:23Corinne Vien?

  And while Harry Price found that Eleanor was unaffected by the paranormal, there was a letter that she had written years later to the Countess that suggested the activity had returned.

• 48:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What?

• 48:35Corinne Vien?

  And it might have been triggered by menopause.

• 48:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No way.

• 48:40Corinne Vien?

  And this is the story of Eleanor Zugun, a Romanian preteen tormented for two years by Dracu, the devil, because she found a coin to purchase sweets. And her period and menopause greatly influenced the devil's presence. That's all we get.

• 48:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We don't know what she wrote in the letter.

• 48:58Corinne Vien?

  Nope, it was just like

• 48:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Damn. Well, it's so interesting, because we've heard so many stories where it's like people getting their period, or like the, the belief, the conjecture is that they're getting their menstrual cycle is what causes the stirrup of, the flare-up of activity. But interesting that Eleanor is the opposite, where it's like

• 49:17Corinne Vien?

  Leading up to

• 49:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, interesting.

• 49:19Corinne Vien?

  But I guess like, I mean, obviously, like, the whole menstrual cycle is a whole shift in like hormones and everything. But I think the real dramatic, dramatic shifts are getting your period at first, like going through puberty and then menopause.

• 49:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, those are massive shifts.

• 49:36Corinne Vien?

  I wonder if there was something manifesting there. Because I, she did not have children, and there was no written record of pregnancies.

• 49:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting.

• 49:45Corinne Vien?

  So I don't, I, I am curious if like, if she had been pregnant, if

• 49:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If that would have brought it up.

• 49:51Corinne Vien?

  Because that completely messes up your body again, too.

• 49:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is wild.

• 49:54Corinne Vien?

  Isn't it?

• 49:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I am really happy to hear that Eleanor and the Countess were such good friends, and like, the Countess really did take care of her. Because I think my biggest concern in this whole story is just like, this young girl, how is she being treated? And, and the episode that I researched for next week is so much about like family turmoil. And it does make me wonder if there is some connection between dysfunction, like family dysfunction, and some of these hauntings?

• 50:19Corinne Vien?

  Totally, it could be.

• 50:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know.

• 50:21Corinne Vien?

  Well, I feel like so many people can, like, if I think about my own childhood, my parents reported me seeing ghosts before I even had the opportunity to experience dysfunction.

• 50:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 50:31Corinne Vien?

  Like, I think paranormal activity just exists anywhere.

• 50:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I agree with that, yes.

• 50:35Corinne Vien?

  But the really crazy poltergeist

• 50:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And like demonic encounters. They seem to fester in the dysfunction.

• 50:43Corinne Vien?

  Right, it's, yeah, because it's like, if they're feeding off of negative emotions and getting more power and strength from it, that's the perfect place to

• 50:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  To set yourself up. Ugh.

• 50:52Corinne Vien?

  Man.

• 50:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Eleanor, do we have a photo of Eleanor?

• 50:55Corinne Vien?

  Yes, here she is as an adult.

• 50:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is her hair beautiful? We could have used her hairstyling techniques for my wig today. Oh, she's beautiful.

• 51:01Corinne Vien?

  She looks so much like, I can't remember her name. There's this season of Love is Blind, and she looks like one of the contestants on it, who was very like, kind of like, rich and wealthy family. And then she married kind of like a more farmy guy. And they had a baby, unfortunately, they separated. But when I saw her, I was like, oh my God, it's the girl from Love is Blind. And I'll also show you the Countess, which if you are watching on YouTube, you've already seen her earlier. But apparently, she was in her twenties, though this photo makes her look a lot older.

• 51:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, Eleanor also looks older than 12 or 13 in that

• 51:35Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, and then here are some of the marks, since I didn't show you when we were going through it.

• 51:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh geez. Oh, that looks like the stigmata.

• 51:42Corinne Vien?

  Oh, interesting that you say that, because that was a big part, I didn't even write about it, because I was just like, there's already a lot. But that was a big part of it, that was like, okay, based on all the superstitions and like the area that she's from, and how religion plays a part of it, there was a lot about the stigmata and like the needles being punctured through her hands. And a lot of the markings appearing in the same way that Jesus had nails driven into him and

• 52:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, well, this is the other thing, is not to get into like a whole religious conversation, but some of the like, deeper like possession or haunting cases have a lot of similarities to like biblical stories. And then I'm like, why are we calling it a demon in this case? But in the Bible, it was God.

• 52:28Corinne Vien?

  Are they the same thing?

• 52:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Are they not? They are brothers.

• 52:31Corinne Vien?

  Who like, who knows?

• 52:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, we do not know. We don't. We have no answers. This is not a science podcast.

• 52:37Corinne Vien?

  No, but I did, I brought this up before that like, there was a TikTok that I saw where someone was saying, wasn't doing an impression of Jesus coming back down to return. And just saw how many crosses there were of like, the worst moment of his life and was like, oh, nevermind. Like, why are you guys?

• 52:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Memorializing my murder?

• 52:55Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but then I saw another one that was talking about just like, how many people who experience psychosis believe that they are Jesus returned? And someone, the person who was making the video was like, statistically, I mean, he said he was coming back.

• 53:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So like, right.

• 53:10Corinne Vien?

  The chances, what are the chances that like, one or two or three of them were him coming back? And then we immediately go lock him up?

• 53:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 53:16Corinne Vien?

  It's like, damn, it would be kind of a tough life for him to enter this world.

• 53:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think about biblical stories where like, people were hearing voices and bringing messages forward. And back then, people listened. I mean, granted, there was a lot of doubt in some of these cases too, but like, yeah, I feel like our society has made it hard for Jesus to come back.

• 53:35Corinne Vien?

  Well, maybe we should start looking, maybe we should actually take the Bible seriously, word for word. Because I do believe it does say, when men do harm to women, to pluck their eyes out. I think maybe we need to revisit this text.

• 53:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Some of the text, though, is very bad for women.

• 53:53Corinne Vien?

  That's true.

• 53:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So maybe not. Maybe we write our own rules and let women decide what to do with their bodies.

• 54:01Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my God. Wait, I'm sorry. This is another TikTok I saw where it was like, someone goes to heaven and they meet like, God and all the angel, angels and everyone's a woman. And they're like, oh, well, that's not what, like, this is very different from what you wrote in your book. And they're like, we never wrote a book. Wait, who wrote a book? And it's just like them just constantly being like, no, we didn't do that. Who did that? And it like, always goes back to.

• 54:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Your algorithm has changed.

• 54:26Corinne Vien?

  There's still some darkness, but I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get off of it.

• 54:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Trying to pivot.

• 54:30Corinne Vien?

  Pivot, yeah. It's hard. We live in a tough, tough world and possession cases almost seem like the, like, not even scary anymore.

• 54:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Um, I just watched a movie. It's a movie rec for people. It's called Good Luck, Have Fun, Don't Die.

• 54:43Corinne Vien?

  Is it like a game?

• 54:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Um, it's very much, okay, so the concept is, there's a bunch of people in a diner and all of a sudden this guy who claims he's from the future comes and he's like, I need to form a group of X amount of people to like, save the world. But if I don't do this tonight, the world will end. And, and it, it's very AI computer, like how we're obsessed with our phones if we don't change. Anyway, but it was really fun. It was weird and fun. I enjoyed it.

• 55:10Corinne Vien?

  Is there a lot of death?

• 55:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes and no.

• 55:13Corinne Vien?

  It was fun.

• 55:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's kind of like campy.

• 55:15Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 55:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 55:16Corinne Vien?

  So it's not like the, that one that was like, the cabin at the end of the world or like, whatever, where like, there truly is a group saying, someone needs to die to save the world.

• 55:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, no, no.

• 55:25Corinne Vien?

  And it's a horror movie.

• 55:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, it's not like that. No, no, no. This is a campy movie, but it does talk about how we are obsessed with our phones and how we are glued to them and almost becoming possessed by the phone.

• 55:38Corinne Vien?

  I do like that commentary.

• 55:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 55:40Corinne Vien?

  And I like horror movies that have stuff like that. Like, there's one that I'm not going to remember the name of it, but it's like, they did a remake of it, but it's two guys who are wearing like, all white and they go to borrow an egg or something from the neighbor. And then they basically just like, keep going back and hold the family hostage.

• 55:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, I hated this movie.

• 55:56Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it's really disturbing, but like, it is acting as commentary about how we watch these horrifying things for enjoyment, because there's like, moments where they turn and break.

• 56:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 56:09Corinne Vien?

  The fourth wall or whatever. And like,

• 56:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, what is that one called? I watched that recently.

• 56:14Corinne Vien?

  And then they use the remote to like, replay and redo a scene.

• 56:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What is that called? Um, movie?

• 56:19Corinne Vien?

  It is meant to get under your skin.

• 56:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It is, it does.

• 56:22Corinne Vien?

  You're watching this? Why are you watching this, you fucked up weirdo? It's like, oh, I don't know. I rented it for $3.99. There's two of them, but I, I watched the remake that came out in like, I don't know, 2009 or something like that.

• 56:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Funny Games?

• 56:34Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Okay, I watched the 1997 one.

• 56:38Corinne Vien?

  You did. When did the remake one come out?

• 56:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  2007. Huh. Okay, well, I have a listener story and it is about, there's a Zoe in this story, actually.

• 56:46Corinne Vien?

  Oh, the Countess, she's back.

• 56:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And she got possessed.

• 56:50Corinne Vien?

  Oh, no.

• 56:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is from our listener, Chris, and it's called, Did I Cause My Daughter to Be Possessed?

• 56:56Corinne Vien?

  Ooh.

• 56:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hey, ghosties, my name is Chris. I've been binge listening and watching for about four months now. And I was going to write a while ago, but I kept putting it off. And then the more I listened, the more I realized I really need to tell this story. So my husband and I met and married. He has two boys and I have four kids, two boys, two girls. My daughter was the youngest of them all at that time and her name is Zoe. And I was raised very religious and did not know about the different demons and I nicknamed her Zozo.

• 57:24Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 57:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's a cute nickname for a Zoe.

• 57:26Corinne Vien?

  I'm sure so many people do that.

• 57:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, for sure.

• 57:29Corinne Vien?

  We call Noah, No-No.

• 57:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No-No.

• 57:31Corinne Vien?

  Well, we're copying, we're copying all the other toddlers who call him No-No in the, in the neighborhood.

• 57:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We moved into a very old home that needed extensive work. And as context, the older lady who lived there previously fell down the stairs and died. She didn't die in the house, but she did die after the fall.

• 57:47Corinne Vien?

  Oh, man.

• 57:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  While renovating the house, we uncovered a large sum of money in the floorboards. We tried to do the right thing by finding someone related to this woman to give that money to, but we found no one. So we used this money to help pay for renovations and that is when everything started.

• 58:03Corinne Vien?

  Oh, no.

• 58:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  One night while we were in bed, also weird, starts with finding money.

• 58:08Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 58:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So one night while we're in bed, we heard a strange noise in our living room. Nervously, my husband and I went to go check it. We find my daughter on all fours, digging into the carpet over and over, saying, where's my money? Where's my money? Find it.

• 58:24Corinne Vien?

  God.

• 58:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Remember they found money buried in the floorboards?

• 58:27Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I have chills.

• 58:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. We woke her and returned her to bed. Mind you, she is four years old at this time and knew nothing of us finding money in the floorboards.

• 58:34Corinne Vien?

  That's what I was gonna ask. Does she even know?

• 58:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Knew nothing. This happened at least four times.

• 58:38Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, ooh.

• 58:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Other nights, we would find her on her top bunk asleep, standing up, trying to jump off. Once, my husband caught her and woke her up and every time, my daughter told us that an old lady was yelling at her to jump.

• 58:53Corinne Vien?

  Well, I don't like this, especially given that the woman herself, quote unquote, fell down the stairs.

• 58:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A few times, we would find her hanging onto the edge of the top bunk screaming as she had no idea how she got that way.

• 59:05Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, no, the bunk beds are going.

• 59:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, burn the bunk beds. There are also many nights when we would hear both my daughters who shared a room talking in their sleep, like, full-on conversations in another language. They would cackle and it was always super creepy and my husband and I would just look at each other and be like, well, we're going to bed.

• 59:21Corinne Vien?

  Oh, fuck.

• 59:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I always wondered if maybe it was because I gave her that nickname, Zozo, but I don't know.

• 59:28Corinne Vien?

  I don't know. I like, I don't think so.

• 59:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The old lady.

• 59:31Corinne Vien?

  And Zozo is the Ouija board demon.

• 59:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 59:33Corinne Vien?

  And you're not using Ouija boards.

• 59:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The specific, where's my money, find it, is so old lady coded. Anyway, we moved from that house and I'm not sure whether it's because we moved or what, but she no longer has these occurrences. We have had other instances in our new house, but nothing like this. See you on the other side, Chris.

• 59:53Corinne Vien?

  Hmm, yeah, no, that old lady became poltergeist-y.

• 59:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 59:59Corinne Vien?

  Because poltergeist doesn't mean evil.

• 1:00:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, no, she possessed the little girl.

• 1:00:03Corinne Vien?

  But, but she's also trying to make your child harm herself by falling from an extreme height when she's super little.

• 1:00:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Crazy. I want to know more about this old lady, because I feel like she has a story and some unfinished business.

• 1:00:16Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You know what I always think about?

• 1:00:17Corinne Vien?

  The money that's squirreled away.

• 1:00:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. I feel like that's like a common thing, though, where older people will like, not trust the banks.

• 1:00:24Corinne Vien?

  Right, in the cans or whatever, like their tin cans.

• 1:00:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm very curious, because we have some psychics and some intuitives and mediums who listen to our podcast. Like, I'm curious if, when we read listener stories, if anyone picks up on things.

• 1:00:36Corinne Vien?

  Oh, if they get hits. Oh, yeah. Do you, do you know if this lady has a message?

• 1:00:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or do you get hits about us?

• 1:00:42Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, I feel like people get a lot of hits on you. You get a lot of emails about like, a reading for Sabrina, or I know this about Sabrina, or.

• 1:00:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, they're mostly like, I had a dream that Sabrina died and got mangled and, and like, fell off a cliff. And I'm like, great, cool, thank you.

• 1:00:57Corinne Vien?

  I think you like, push out your energy.

• 1:00:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, I think people project their own energy onto me and I just am a, I'm a mirror. People, because people think I am something that I'm not.

• 1:01:07Corinne Vien?

  Do have accurate readings for you, though.

• 1:01:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Litha, our girl Litha, very much gets accurate readings. But yeah, if you, if you do get readings, you're more than welcome to share them with us.

• 1:01:16Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, please.

• 1:01:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, we want to know. We want to know, what's, what's our future? What can you see?

• 1:01:22Corinne Vien?

  What are the lottery numbers?

• 1:01:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They wouldn't tell us. They would go buy their own lottery ticket.

• 1:01:27Corinne Vien?

  No, but for me, what are my lottery numbers?

• 1:01:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, this was a sad, scary episode, but I feel like, like it was lighthearted. Like, I don't feel as scared this month.

• 1:01:38Corinne Vien?

  No, I feel like we've covered a lot of the one. Are we becoming desensitized?

• 1:01:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I was just gonna say.

• 1:01:44Corinne Vien?

  Well, this one is like, it's disturbing, but it happened so long ago.

• 1:01:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, and it ended okay.

• 1:01:50Corinne Vien?

  And ended okay. And I feel like in some of the more modern stories, we get more descriptions about like, exactly what happened. Whereas this is kind of just like a fluffier, like, things are being thrown, things are moved, there's bright lights, there's needles, which like, that's scary, but sometimes it can feel a lot scarier when you're being walked through, like what an hour actually looks like. And this one's kind of, I don't know, there's just something kind of lovely about the idea of, um,

• 1:02:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Living with a Countess?

• 1:02:15Corinne Vien?

  Living with a Countess and then you're men, going through menopause and like, having the devil return.

• 1:02:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That sounds horrible. Like, going, I don't think going through menopause is enjoyable.

• 1:02:26Corinne Vien?

  Screamed when I read that. I was like, what? This is like, the biggest twist. I never would have seen this coming.

• 1:02:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Uh, Eleanor, let us know what happened to you during menopause.

• 1:02:36Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And Dracu, poo poo.

• 1:02:40Corinne Vien?

  Also, I was thinking about it when researching this, that I feel like oftentimes when girls are blamed for getting their period for like, poltergeist activity, we don't put enough blame on the moms as well, because oftentimes the moms are also going through menopause at that time. Like, it usually kind of sinks up.

• 1:02:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting. No, I mean.

• 1:02:59Corinne Vien?

  My mom was definitely going through menopause when I was in high school and I had like, just gotten my period.

• 1:03:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I feel like my mom just more recently went through menopause.

• 1:03:06Corinne Vien?

  Really?

• 1:03:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:07Corinne Vien?

  I mean, it's, it takes a long time.

• 1:03:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, it's true.

• 1:03:09Corinne Vien?

  It'd be like a friggin' decade.

• 1:03:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's true.

• 1:03:12Corinne Vien?

  Oh, menopause.

• 1:03:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Anyway, uh, if you have any paranormal experiences, please email them to us at two girls, one ghost podcast at gmail.com. You can join us on Patreon for episodes one week early and ad-free, plus bonus content, plus every Tuesday, we have campfire stories. Where you can come, share your ghost stories with us live and it's like a fun little community, um, over on Patreon. Yeah.

• 1:03:35Corinne Vien?

  Thank you to Jamie Ryan, who edits and produces this podcast. We really appreciate you. And if you are listening in the month of October, you have one week left to take a picture of your Halloween costume. Go over to our Instagram to check out the rules of our costume contest, because it's happening and we have trophies.

• 1:03:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. Love you all.

• 1:03:54Corinne Vien?

  And we will.

• 1:03:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  See you on the other side.

• 1:04:01Corinne Vien?

  Very spooky.

• 1:04:04Speaker 04

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