The Surprising Power of Swearing & How to Build Confidence Fast

Want to significantly improve your chances of getting a good night’s sleep? There is one surprisingly simple thing you can do during the day that may actually help you sleep better that night. And no, it doesn’t involve exercise, meditation or giving up your phone. This episode begins with what it is and why it may work. https://sleepopolis.com/news/make-bed-better-sleep/ Every language and every culture has swear words. We’re taught as children not to say them, yet somehow we all learn exactly what they are. So why does swearing exist in the first place? And why are certain words considered so much more powerful and offensive than others? It turns out that swearing serves some interesting purposes — and under the right circumstances, it may even have some benefits. Timothy Jay is one of the world’s leading authorities on the psychology of swearing. He is professor emeritus of psychology at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts and author of Cursing in America (https://amzn.to/3CMIs36) and Why We Curse (https://amzn.to/46hZ2FN). Listen as he reveals where our swear words come from, why they have such emotional punch and what happens when we use them. Confidence is one of those qualities that seems easy to recognize in other people and much harder to summon up in yourself — especially at the exact moment you need it. Maybe you need to speak up, walk into a room full of strangers, ask for something you want or handle a difficult conversation. So can you actually become more confident on demand? Selena Rezvani says you can, and the techniques are surprisingly practical. Selena is a speaker, journalist and author of Quick Confidence: Be Authentic, Create Connections and Make Bold Bets on Yourself (https://amzn.to/43WVJ59). She joins me with simple strategies you can use to quiet self-doubt, appear more confident and actually feel more confident when it counts. Could changing the expression on your face actually change the way you feel? There is a remarkably simple thing you can do with your face right now that may give your mood a little lift. Listen as I explain what to do — and the intriguing reason it appears to work. Source: Dr. Stephanie McClellan, author of The Ultimate Stress Relief Plan for Women (https://amzn.to/3NLj04s). PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS MONARCH: Write your own money story with Monarch! Use promo code SYSK at ⁠https://Monarch.com⁠ to get your 1st year of Monarch Core half off at just $50 AQUATRU: Head to ⁠https://AquaTru.com⁠ now and get 20% off your purifier using promo code SYSK AquaTru even comes with a 30-day best-tasting water guarantee or your money back! WAYFAIR: Ready to upgrade your home for way less? Head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Wayfair.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ right now to shop all things home and get your space ready for less. QUINCE: Find your next Fall favorites at Quince! Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Quince.com/sysk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too! DELL: Built for those who want better. The Dell XPS, built for you! SHOPIFY: It's time to turn those "what ifs" into CHA CHING with Shopify Today! Sign up for your $1 per month trail and start selling today at ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Shopify.com/realm⁠⁠⁠⁠ INDEED: Get a $75 Sponsored Job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Indeed.com/PODCAST⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Carruthers?

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• 0:41Mike Carruthers?

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• 1:22Mike Carruthers?

  Today on Something You Should Know, one easy thing you can do today to help you sleep better tonight. Then swearing. We're taught and told not to swear, but it does serve a purpose, or two.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Swearing is a way for guys and gals to bond with each other. It's an integral part of telling stories and jokes. It's a coping strategy. I would rather somebody get mad and swear at a coworker than take a gun back and shoot them.

• 1:51Mike Carruthers?

  Also, why you might want to rub your face right now. And how to boost your confidence, from how to carry yourself to how you think.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  Don't overestimate what everybody else can do and underestimate what you can do. There's something called comparisonitis, this default setting that others know what they're doing.

• 2:16Mike Carruthers?

  All this today on Something You Should Know. There's probably no better endorsement for a company than this. I keep buying their stuff. That's exactly what's happening with me and Quince. It started with their clothes. I've bought sweaters, polos, pants, jeans, shoes, a belt. And Quince has become one of the first places I look when I need something new to wear. And my wife and son buy from Quince too, all the time. What keeps bringing us back is the quality and the price. Quince uses premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, merino wool.

• 2:59Mike Carruthers?

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• 3:41Mike Carruthers?

  Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, please let them know it was Something You Should Know. It's the best way to support our show.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Something You Should Know. Fascinating intel, the world's top experts, and practical advice you can use in your life today. Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers.

• 4:11Mike Carruthers?

  Hello. Welcome to Something You Should Know. I'm about to give you a piece of advice that, when you hear it, I think you're gonna think to yourself, "Yeah, that sounds right. That sounds right." And it's advice for when you have trouble sleeping. And if you would like to get a better night's sleep, make your bed in the morning. A survey by the National Sleep Foundation says it really does make a difference. People who regularly make their bed each morning were 19% more likely to fall asleep faster at night. Researchers chalk it up to that feel-good, relaxing sensation when you go through the motions of turning down the sheets and climbing into a tidy bed.

• 4:55Mike Carruthers?

  If you'd like to add maybe a little more oomph to your sleep, try spritzing your sheets with lavender-scented linen spray before you climb in. That scent of lavender can act as a natural tranquilizer. And that is something you should know. Why do people swear? Swearing is something that happens in pretty much every language. Swearing is often looked at as crude, vulgar, and unnecessary. Yet it happens in every language, so maybe it is necessary, at least for some people. Swear words have shock value. They're often emotionally charged and used to express an extreme emotion that regular

• 5:39Mike Carruthers?

  words just can't convey. And I'm sure you've noticed that, over the past several years, swearing has become less taboo. I hear kids swear a lot. You hear swear words more in song lyrics, and on TV, and in the movies. It's also interesting to me that you don't often hear new swear words. The old ones stick around for a long time. Timothy Jay has been studying the science of swearing for a long time and is considered a leading expert on the topic. He is a psychology professor emeritus at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts and author of a couple of books on the subject, one called Cursing in America and another called Why We Curse. Hi, Timothy. Welcome to Something You Should Know.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Glad to be here.

• 6:26Mike Carruthers?

  So why do you study swearing? Why do you find it so fascinating?

• 6:31Speaker 01

  The more I studied swearing, the more questions I had about it. So it's immensely interesting from a scientific point of view, and just from an intellectual point of view. I would instruct your listeners that whatever you think you know about swearing, forget about it, and listen to the science that has evolved about swearing.

• 6:58Mike Carruthers?

  So let's lay down some foundation here. How long have people been swearing? Do they swear? People swear in every language? Are the swear words, pretty much, they do stay the same? Give me a little history here.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Humans have been speaking for about 100,000 years. We've been reading for only 10,000 years. So as far as we know, of course, there's no scientific evidence of what we did 100,000 years ago, but as long as we've been speaking, I think we've used guttural expressions to express our emotions. Yeah, so it's always been here. It's in every language. There are taboos in every language, which are ancient, and we'd have some sense of them by looking at the Bible or the Quran about what could be said, and by whom.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  So some of what we live with today, in terms of those taboos, are thousands of years old.

• 8:05Mike Carruthers?

  So if you erase the taboo label on a swear word, does it then become not a swear word? In other words, swear words are taboo by definition?

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so, yes. And I think your supposition is impossible. I don't think you can erase taboo, because the taboos are constructed socially by our institutions of power. And 2,000 years ago, that was religion, and the elders. So they exert their power by creating these taboos, and then they demonstrate their authority by punishing people who break these taboos. So there's not a culture on the globe that doesn't have taboos against certain behaviors. So we can't erase them.

• 8:59Mike Carruthers?

  I disagree with that, and here's my example. Hell and damn used to be very serious swear words. You couldn't say them. The taboo has faded away somewhat, somewhat significantly for those two words. So there isn't much of a taboo, and consequently, they're not used as much as swear words. They're just words.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  And that's because of the decline of the power of organized religion in some countries. At the turn of the century, those words, hell and damn, you could not say on the radio, you could not write them, you could not, when we started making film, you could not say those on film. But with the decline of the power of the church, those religious taboos have gone away. But you're right, the religious taboos have faded by and large.

• 9:58Mike Carruthers?

  In my lifetime, I have seen the line in the sand keep shifting as to what's acceptable and what's not. And my example would be 30 years ago, 20 years ago, there were a lot of words, the F-word, a lot of words that were not spoken in public. When I go to my son's track meet, and we walk around the track, and there are teams and tents, and they're listening to the radio, they're playing songs where F-bombs are being dropped every five seconds, and there's little kids around, and there's families around, and it's normal. It's, no one's like going, oh my God, did you hear that? It's just become acceptable.

• 10:40Mike Carruthers?

  And my question is, has that line in the sand always been moving at the same rate? Or is it speeding up or slowing down? Or is it not moving at all?

• 10:50Speaker 01

  I just wanted to point out, you just said, oh my God. And 100 years ago, you could not have said that in a film. You could not have said that on the radio 100 years ago. Yes, these things are changing. I think along with what you're hearing in language is a relaxation of our conventions, you can see this clearly in clothing styles. What kids wear to school today, too. I couldn't have dressed like that back in the 60s. You know, you watch films from the 40s and 50s. I was watching Charade last night with Cary Grant, and all the men, the men are wearing suits, the men are wearing ties, they are almost always wearing hats.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  So, yeah, that has changed, that has relaxed.

• 11:37Mike Carruthers?

  But in terms of swearing, the relaxation, the more accepting of swearing today upsets a lot of people. There are people who don't want to hear it, they don't say it, and would prefer that it not be all around them. And what's wrong with that?

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Oh, there's nothing wrong with that. There's, I've done research with a Mormon psychologist who, and Mormons, Mormons, though, if they don't swear, at least not in public, Mormons use euphemisms, shoot, darn, sugar. But I think underlying that is still the same emotional brain that the rest of us have, that frequently swear. You know, the emotions are still there, but the convention or the habit has just taken a different path. And so, yeah, certainly there are people that don't swear like other people, but they still have the same emotions.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Now, let's qualify this by saying that every competent speaker of a language, every competent speaker of English has to know what the swear words are, because you have to know what you're not supposed to say. And so, we're all capable of swearing, the Mormons just have a second dictionary of euphemisms that they use.

• 13:00Mike Carruthers?

  So people swear to express emotions, but isn't there also evidence that when you, for example, are physically hurt, you smack your foot on the table, or you stub your toe, and you swear, isn't there some evidence that the swearing helps ease the pain?

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, that's Richard Stevens' research from the University of Keel, he's a friend of mine. And that, if you want to get to the nuts and bolts of that, that's where, they put your arm in a bucket of ice water. And I don't know if you've ever done that, it becomes very painful quickly, but half of the subjects are allowed to say swear words during this, and the other half don't say anything. And the people who could say the swear words, I would say out of frustration and pain, they're saying that, they can tolerate the ice water longer than the people who don't. So, yeah, there's some pain relief.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  It's also, in the back of my mind, I think doing another task, like generating words to say, also takes your mind off of the pain. So I think, I think the swearing has two mechanisms. One is the physiological venting part, and the other is cognitive, where it just, it diverts a little bit of your attention away from the pain mechanism.

• 14:24Mike Carruthers?

  When you look at the common swear words that we have in the English language, is there any idea where they came from? Or did they just, is it so old, and it's all muddled, and there's no way to find the origin?

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Oh, no, we know where they came from. They're Anglo-Saxon words, the F-word goes back to the 1100. And that's a good question you ask, Mike, because your audience who has any question about these, get the Oxford Dictionary out, and you can find those words are in the dictionary, and the old forms of them, and the things that are in Chaucer's writings from the 1500s. You know, we can see, trace those words back to then. They're not of recent origin, they're ancient.

• 15:11Mike Carruthers?

  Well, I find that so interesting, that there aren't really a lot of new ones. They don't come and go like other words in the language, they, they're very evergreen.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  I'm glad you said evergreen, because that's my metaphor, is that we have a garden of curses. And, and so these old, these old reliable plants that have served us well for centuries, they're resistant to any exotic intruders. I'm confident that slang words, a lot of slang words go out of style, but the good old-fashioned Anglo-Saxon four-letter words, the George Carlin seven words you can't say on TV, those have been around for a long time, and there's no evidence that they're, they're being displaced.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Although, let me comment again on, oh my God, which we didn't hear very much, but now that that phrase is very common, children say that a lot, women say, oh my God, about five times more frequently than men do. So it's a mild way of, it's a mild way of expressing emotions.

• 16:24Mike Carruthers?

  Our topic is swearing, cursing, and my guest is one of the leading experts on the subject, Timothy Jay, who is author of the book, Cursing in America and Why We Curse. A big thank you to today's sponsor, Vinted. I think most of us have what I call someday clothes. I'll wear that someday, that'll fit better someday, someday I'll have a place to wear that. Meanwhile, it's been hanging in the closet for three years. Vinted offers another possibility, sell it. Every day, people can sell clothes they're no longer wearing and make some extra money. And they've made the process pretty painless.

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• 17:50Speaker 04

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• 18:22Mike Carruthers?

  So Timothy, is there a sense that those seven words that you can't say, or more, were they always swear words? Or were they words that became swear words? Or are they parts of words and the part became a swear word? Or we don't know?

• 18:39Speaker 01

  They were common words. The F word, the S word, that's how people talked. And it wasn't, it wasn't really until the church started to, and this was centuries ago, started to ban and censor the way we, well, the way we talk, but really the way we think. That day became more taboo than, than they were.

• 19:04Mike Carruthers?

  But the swear words that we know of, those words that we're not supposed to say, all have a few similarities. They come from parts of the language that are those taboo parts of the language.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  What the vocabulary that we have of the taboo is limited to, like I said before, sexuality, religion, things that are disgusting that come out of your body, ethnic, psychological, social differences between people, animals. Every culture has animals that are taboo, what you can eat and what you can't eat. And, you know, what animal names are offensive. That differs from culture to culture. But, but when you look at swear words globally, that's, they're limited to that handful of categories.

• 19:54Mike Carruthers?

  Animal name. What's an animal name that's a swear word?

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Pig. Pig is a good swear word. Pigs are disgusting and dirty and, you know, in a lot of people's minds and calling someone a pig. You hear that on television all the time, calling somebody a pig, you know, sexist pig.

• 20:13Mike Carruthers?

  Well, and not all swear words are created equal. I mean, some are, you know, there's a scale, right? I mean, some are like really offensive and some, some have kind of fallen off the scale.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  I can think of a good word that, that became much less taboo than when I was a kid. And that's the word sucks. Because when I was in high school, the word sucks meant, meant a sexual act. And now it doesn't mean that. And I, I remember in, I think it was 86, when the TV show Uncle Buck was to start. And the hubbub about that was that they were going to use the word sucks in the first season, you know, and oh, you know, and now, now that, that word has lost, that word has lost all its cachet. Yeah, and there's, there's a bunch of words like that.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  A lot of the Victorian era, the way we talked about our body, about using even words like limb or leg, that was taboo. And even, you know, you couldn't show your legs. And even people, people went to the extent that they would cover up piano legs so that you didn't see them. That I think, that I think we, we've evolved from, from that Victorian sensibility.

• 21:33Mike Carruthers?

  Well, that brings up, well, a couple of questions. The first, first I want to go back to sucks. My sense is that sucks became much more acceptable just because, because it's such a great word to use in so many cases. And it, just by overusing it or using it a lot, you, it kind of got forced into the language. But the F word never does.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  No, there always has to be the worst things to say. Yeah.

• 22:01Mike Carruthers?

  But everybody uses sucks because it's so, it's so perfect for so many situations. And if enough people use it enough times, it becomes less offensive.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  By convention, yes. Like wearing shorts, like wearing shorts to high school. You couldn't, you couldn't do that when I was a kid. Again, like, like we've said before, where are you going to draw the line? And then if you make up a bunch of rules about what can and cannot be done, who's going to police all this stuff?

• 22:28Mike Carruthers?

  Well, there's also something about who gets to swear. You know, you, your parents might swear, but you can't swear, especially to your parents or, you know, or to the teacher.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, so let's flesh out something that's just been implicit here. And that's about, about power and the hierarchy of power. So when you go into a hospital and, and we've studied swearing in medical settings, swearing goes down the hierarchy. So the doctors swear at the nurses. It doesn't go up. The, and the people with the power, they can invade your personal space. They can come in to your office. They can touch you. They can, they can tell you dirty jokes. They can make offhand comments. But that goes down the hierarchy. You know, that another good example is in a, in a fine restaurant, the cooks all yell

• 23:24Speaker 01

  at the staff. The cooks swear at, you know, watch Gordon Ramsay. And so in a hierarchy, the power, the power to swear and control other people's behavior goes down the hierarchy, not up the hierarchy. So in, in corporation is a good example of that. A school is a good example.

• 23:45Mike Carruthers?

  Swearing has this morality attached to it that, you know, you're virtuous if you don't swear. So if you swear, I guess you're not virtuous that. But because swearing is so pervasive, there must be some value in it. Yes?

• 24:02Speaker 01

  It has a lot of advantages. Swearing, you know, I've played ice hockey. I've worked, my father was a masonry contractor. I've worked with laborers. I worked in a factory. Swearing is a way for, for guys and gals to, to bond with each other. It's an integral part of telling stories and jokes. So it has a great humor element to it. We, we have a multi-billion dollar comedy industry in America.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  It's also a great supplement for physical violence is to express your anger by giving someone the finger or saying F you. And even I can do that across the street. I don't have to put myself at jeopardy by to walk up and punch somebody. So from an evolutionary viewpoint, it's a good thing that we have swearing. I would rather somebody get mad and swear at a coworker at work or in the parking lot than take a gun back and shoot them.

• 25:07Mike Carruthers?

  So putting the moral issue of swearing aside, I mean, swearing serves a purpose.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  It's a coping strategy. It is a way of venting your toxic emotions and conveying how you feel to someone else who maybe insulted you or frustrated you or made you feel good or made you feel happy or made you laugh. And so it's a very, it's a very powerful toolbox with its own psychological and cultural nuances.

• 25:41Mike Carruthers?

  Well, there is probably nothing that's more context dependent than swearing. Because how effective or offensive or whatever it is you're trying to do with it really depends on where you are, who you're talking to, what you're talking about. I mean, it really depends on a lot of things.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. Context is all important.

• 26:04Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  And what these words mean, what these words mean really depend on, on context, you know? What, what you can say on the street versus what you say with your partner in the bedroom, you know, can be very different, very different meanings.

• 26:19Mike Carruthers?

  Well, it's interesting that, you know, for example, the S word is a, is a synonym for excrement. The F word is a synonym for sex. When you say that, usually it has nothing to do with the meanings of those words. They're just noises you're making. They, they don't reference the meaning of the word. They reference that you're angry or upset or something.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Wow. You, I, I had some of my research in front of the US Supreme Court, which tried to make that case where we had some of, some judges and some lawyers wanted to say that the F word in all uses means sexuality. That guy has never been on the street and heard the hundreds of different ways to use the F word.

• 27:11Mike Carruthers?

  Well, there really is a lot to this. And like you said, swearing isn't going anywhere for a good, long time. And it's so interesting to understand how it works, why it works, why the words don't change much. I've been talking to Timothy Jay. He has, I've been talking to Timothy Jay. He is a psychology professor emeritus at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts. He's considered one of the leading experts on swearing and he's authored a couple of books, Cursing in America and Why We Curse. And there's a link to those books in the show notes. Thank you, Timothy. Thanks for coming on and, and thanks for not swearing.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  All right, Mike. You have a darn nice day.

• 27:53Speaker 04

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• 28:01Speaker 04

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• 28:40Speaker 05

  Of course I'm getting more action than Chloe. Think I walk around with this smile on my face for nothing? Oh, my God. All episodes of season eight are now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 28:55Mike Carruthers?

  Self-confidence seems like you can never have too much of that. People like self-confidence in others. When you exude self-confidence, it's attractive. It can often result in better outcomes for you. It draws people to you, as you probably know, because you're probably drawn to people who have a lot of confidence. So how do you acquire more confidence? How do you get good at walking into a room full of strangers and feel, or at least appear to be confident? Well, there are some strategies that will help you build your confidence quickly and even improve it in the moment. And here to share some of those strategies is Selena Rezvani. She is a speaker, journalist, TEDx-er, and author.

• 29:39Mike Carruthers?

  Her latest book is called Quick Confidence: Be Authentic, Create Connections, and Make Bold Bets on Yourself. Hi, Selena, welcome to Something You Should Know.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me, Mike.

• 29:52Mike Carruthers?

  So how do you define confidence? Is it a, is it a feeling? Is it a skill? Is it an emotion? What is it exactly?

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, so many of us, you know, think about confidence as this elusive kind of quality. You know, something you're kind of born with or you're not. But the way I teach confidence is that it's something learnable. It's something we can all learn, and it's actually something we can break down into three parts. It's our mindsets, right? The beliefs we're walking around with. It's our body language. And it's those interpersonal moments, our interactions with other people.

• 30:34Mike Carruthers?

  So I think everybody's had that experience of walking into a room and feeling very not confident, very intimidated by this group of people who you probably don't know. You wonder what they think of you. What is it that's going on in my head or anyone's head when that starts to happen?

• 30:54Speaker 02

  What's happening in those moments is a little thing called overthinking.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  You know, am I good enough? What will they think? What do I have to talk about? Right? We are overthinking. We are over anticipating the conversation and, you know, reading their minds. Here's how I think they're going to react and how I won't quite measure up. And so one of the things I recommend, and I can't tell you, Mike, what a difference this has made in my own life to get more social confidence, is something I call dog code. If you think about it, when you go to somebody's house who has a dog, what does that dog do when you open up the door and come in? Like, they don't sit there in the corner and overthink it.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  You know, they don't talk it over with a friend for 10 minutes first. They just come right up to you. They initiate that contact. And so I like to challenge people to get in the habit of being the first. You know, to break that seal socially and to initiate. It's not like you have to have some smooth move or perfect dialogue script written. Not at all. You know, it's enough to even go up to somebody and say genuinely, hi, I'm Selena. You know, and introduce yourself and let it flow from there.

• 32:23Mike Carruthers?

  But my sense is that confidence comes with experience. The more you do something, the better you get at it. The problem is that in the beginning, how do you be confident when you haven't done it? When you, walking into those rooms is intimidating. And yeah, you can get better at it with practice, but until you have the practice, that's, that's where people struggle.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think there's different things we can do there. I think we can shrink the size of the goal. You know, so maybe we're not going to give ourselves the goal of pitching that new client on business and securing the business, right? Really charming them and, and, you know, having this home run of a conversation. We might simply make our goal, I am going to initiate conversation with that person over there, with John. You know, I'm going to do that today. That's something we can achieve and feel good about and give ourselves a little credit for. So I think shrinking the size of your goals is really important so you can build some wins.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  You know, we deny ourselves that when we make our goals too big, too lofty.

• 33:39Mike Carruthers?

  So let's talk about those three elements, those three building blocks of confidence that you mentioned at the beginning. One of them, I guess, being mindset, right?

• 33:49Speaker 02

  I love doing this. Look, one of the things we really need to think about and challenge ourselves around is our mindsets. Because, you know, we can act confident in a moment, in a job interview, let's say, and maybe that's even going to help us, you know? But I, I consider that kind of that fake it till you make it confidence pretty flimsy. You know, that's not really what's going to power our breakthroughs or our best thinking, our best actions. So I think a lot of mindset comes down to telling yourself the right stories. You know, not being a kind of heat-seeking missile, you know, searching out your weaknesses all the time,

• 34:34Speaker 02

  but making a point to tell yourself kind of balanced stories. So if you mess up, let's say, you, you quote the wrong statistic in a meeting and you're feeling bad about it. You know, you just realized you've done this. You might be raking yourself over the coals. Oh, my goodness, I might get fired tomorrow.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  I can't believe what an idiot I was to say, you know, that, that percentage instead of the correct percentage. You want to take a moment and come up with a rational counterstatement. Because often, we're looking at things as only gloom and doom. And honestly, that's not usually the most accurate view. What is the rational counterstatement to maybe making that screw up, that mess up? You know, the rational counterstatement might be, you know, usually I do my work accurately. I'm going to make a point to own this error. I'm going to bring it up, you know, right away, and I'll look out for it in the future.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  You know, it's right sizing that negativity and putting it in its rightful place. And so I think it's so important we stop when we notice overly negative self-talk and beliefs and kind of give the more balanced, often more accurate account.

• 36:00Mike Carruthers?

  Okay, so that's mindset, got that. And now let's talk about body language, because that's another one of the three things, one of the three elements that you talk about.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  We talked earlier about how sometimes in a networking situation, we can feel, you know, really uncertain, maybe rusty, maybe like uncomfortable and overwhelmed. In moments like that, I don't know about you, Mike, but I find it's very easy to shrink ourselves. You know, to kind of shrink our body language, make ourselves smaller, maybe hover in the corner. And I want to encourage you and listeners to do the opposite. Okay, even if you're feeling a little uncertain, to be conspicuous. And so some of the ways you can do that are to expand your stance to what I call surfer stance.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Okay, so you're going to go a little bit more in terms of planting your feet than shoulder width apart to really kind of claim your personal bubble of space. Okay? And as you kind of move up your body and picture doing this, you want to gesture freely. You don't want your arms, you know, pasted to your rib cage where, you know, you're kind of rigid or tight. Gesturing is shown to make people be perceived as warmer and more engaging. It's part of how us human beings comprehend, right? Not just words, but the, the movements and gestures people are making as well.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  And I think another thing that can help in moments like this is to kind of affirm yourself. I know I've been in that exact situation. I described a little uncertain in a networking moment. And one of the things that helped me really cement that strong body language, that confidence, was to say something to myself, like, you know, I 400% belong here. Or I earned my place here as much as anyone else. These can be really powerful, especially when they speak to our specific insecurity. I find that works much better than maybe saying something that's like a very general platitude, like, you know, I am peace or something.

• 38:25Speaker 02

  That might work for somebody, but I think it's, it's even more effective when we speak to our specific insecurity. Maybe I'm questioning my place here, you know, or I'm feeling really intimidated in this moment or by this person. So I think those things can be wonderfully helpful. And I think one more little body language shift that can make the difference is to walk like your head needs to touch the ceiling. There's research, there's science that shows when we sit a little taller in our chairs, right? And same for standing, when we stand a little taller with that lengthened spine,

• 39:07Speaker 02

  it has effects on our esteem, how we feel about ourselves. So first, you seem powerful in your own eyes, then you seem powerful in other people's eyes.

• 39:20Mike Carruthers?

  Okay, and the third thing is, is the how you interact, how you relate to other people. And I think, I really like this one, so go ahead and explain that.

• 39:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, so one of the things people tell me often that's sticky around their interactions and maintaining confidence is dealing with an intimidating person. And so some of the ways I coach people around this is to interact with the person, not the power. Maybe you're getting ready for a coffee date with someone and, and you're feeling really intimidated by them. Instead of interacting with, you know, Jennifer, the CMO of a Fortune 500 company.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  Choose to see her as, you know, Jennifer, the flesh and blood human being who is maybe a mom, a sister, you know, somebody's friend from college. Approach them in more of a peer-to-peer way. You can be respectful of a person without playing small. So I think it's really important that we do that, that we bring a peer-to-peer approach rather than this hierarchical, you know, you're up here and I'm little old me down here. Doesn't serve you and does not serve your confidence. And I like to tell people, you know, you can have a little fun with this.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  If somebody is really intimidating to you, you can like picture them doing ballet in a Spider-Man costume or laying on their couch, like eating chips in their PJs. Like have a little fun with it. You'll find often, this is just a person. This is just a conversation. And while they may operate differently than you do, chances are good you can find some common ground.

• 41:19Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, that's really important, I think, because it's very easy to be intimidated by somebody who has power or status. And yet, if you want to make an impression, you won't make much of an impression if you act all intimidated by them.

• 41:34Speaker 02

  That's exactly right. I'll never forget, early in my career, getting this really exciting opportunity to interview and be a spokesperson for a company I admired. And it hurts to say, Mike, but I blew that interview. And I think one of the big reasons for it, and what a learning moment for me, was giving them the kind of diet sprite version of me, you know, due to intimidation, feeling like, oh, this opportunity, this moment, these people, it's so big, it's so thrilling. I'm not sure I fully belong here, you know?

• 42:18Speaker 02

  And it kind of showed in my responses. And it's part of what's really driven me to have a mission, you know, to help people show all the way up, you know, to make their presence felt. Because how else can you be memorable? You know, how else can anybody really know the real you?

• 42:38Mike Carruthers?

  Well, I think everybody's had that experience. You know, I think it's, you know, called the imposter syndrome, where you start to think, I don't belong here. What am I doing here? These people are so much smarter than I am. And that, too, is another spiral down that's hard to stop.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  And yet, I think the key is to find that kind of inner coach. Because one of the mistaken ideas I had coming into this work and coaching lots of professionals on presence and confidence was that when you make it, you know, when you arrive at that leader destination, whatever that may mean for you, that suddenly the self doubts go away. You know, people at that level, you know, they must just not experience setbacks in the same way, questioning of their abilities. And the truth is, that's not true.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  You know, I think anybody who's continually stretching and pushing the bounds of their comfort zone, which is an amazing thing, by the way, is going to experience rejection, is going to continue to experience self doubt. It's not the fact that that doubt exists, it's how you self-coach through it. So just remember, you know, that well-lived life, it's not avoiding rejection and doubt, it's working your way through it. It's balancing those thoughts, it's telling yourself the right stories.

• 44:17Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, it's always interested me how we so fear rejection. And yet, we've all been rejected and, you know, we didn't die. It wasn't the end of the world. It somehow we got past it and through it and life went on. And then the next time we fear rejection, it didn't help that the last time we feared it, we made it through, it starts all over again. It's just as hard.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  Isn't that interesting? I love that you point that out. And it can feel so fresh and raw every time, you know, particularly when we take it personally and it, you know, it feels personal. With this book, I wrote Quick Confidence. I am pretty open with people. I experienced my own dozen rejections. And yet, those rejections, as bad as they felt, as truly, you know, like a gut punch that they felt at the time, all of those led to changing my idea, you know, kind of altering my pitch somewhat and getting the yes answer that I need

• 45:28Speaker 02

  and needed to make this book real, you know? So I think sometimes we need to remind ourselves that rejection, first of all, it's proof we're trying and taking action. There's something really respectable about being in the ring, trying, endeavoring. There's so much dignity in that, as far as I'm concerned. And I think we need to claim some credit, give ourselves credit for those actions we're taking. We don't have control over the outcomes often. But boy, is it better than kind of sitting on the sidelines, you know, hoping, wishing on a star for a different outcome.

• 46:12Mike Carruthers?

  Well, I know you said in the beginning, that this is a skill and you can develop it and learn it and make it better. But there do seem to be those people who seem very effortless in their confidence, that they just breeze into a room and own the room. And maybe, maybe they went through all these steps and, but it doesn't seem like it. It seems like they just have it.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  I mean, some people are more prone to being decisive, let's say, right? That's one of the ways we size up confidence in a person, is their ability to kind of be decisive in the moment. And I think what's interesting about people like this is they're usually working with the same information as us, you know? It's not like they have the secret cookbook or manual to life, you know, that we somehow didn't get a copy of. And so I think there's some self-trust there in these individuals, trusting their

• 47:21Speaker 02

  experience, that I will never have 100% perfect or complete information, most likely. So I have to trust the best that I can do with what I've got. And I think, you know, those decisive individuals, for example, are good at that, saying, based on what I have, here's what I think we should do. I think some of the people we see as effortlessly confident, I think they have a lower bar.

• 47:49Mike Carruthers?

  So explain what you mean by that. I mean, a lower bar for what?

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Well, let's say, for example, in a workplace setting, maybe we're the kind of person who's extremely quiet in a meeting, doubtful about giving our ideas, you know, sharing our opinion on situations. But we have a peer sitting next to us who, wow, you know, they just come out with their ideas, they say, how about? They don't seem to have that internal editor, that critic, you know, censoring what they do and say. They do not expect themselves to say something brilliant. And so there's a, like, a lower barrier for entry.

• 48:32Mike Carruthers?

  Any last piece of advice for people who want to really give it a shot and boost their confidence?

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think one of the big things we can remember is don't overestimate what everybody else can do and underestimate what you can do. You know, there's something called comparisonitis. And it feels pretty lousy when we suffer from it and have this default setting that others know what they're doing, others are ready, you know, others have the courage and the confidence. But somehow, we need another year of experience. We need another credential before.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  Don't be so quick to write off what you bring. You know, one of the best ways to cultivate your confidence is to really develop that healthy respect for your signature strengths.

• 49:37Mike Carruthers?

  Well, I think that's some really great advice. I've been speaking with Selena Rezvani, and the name of her book is Quick Confidence: Be Authentic, Create Connections, and Make Bold Bets on Yourself. And you can find that book at Amazon, and a link to it is in our show notes. Thanks, Selena.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Thank you, Mike. You're so great at what you do, and I really appreciate you.

• 49:59Mike Carruthers?

  If your mood could use a boost, you might want to try to rub your face. Facial massage can do wonders at reducing stress and transforming your mood, according to Dr. Stephanie McClellan, author of The Ultimate Stress Relief Plan for Women. She says your brain is built to read facial expressions, even your own. When our facial expressions are tense, our brains perceive that as a present threat. You may not be able to see your own expression, but you can feel it and even change it with your hands. Humans instinctively touch their head and their face in reaction to shock or grief

• 50:41Mike Carruthers?

  or worry, and we can take that reflex up a notch. Take a few minutes and rub your face, give it a little massage, start at the temples and work your way around every facial feature to relieve muscle tension, manipulate your expression, and alter your mood. And that is something you should know. Hey, so why not put all those writing skills you have that you learned in school and write us a review on Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen, leave us a rating and review, and we would greatly appreciate that. I'm Mike Heruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.

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